Log for #openttd on 6th August 2006:
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00:50:29  <CIA-5> belugas * r5784 /branches/XTDwidget/: (log message trimmed)
00:50:29  <CIA-5> Branch : Purpose of this branch is to extend the widget current system.
00:50:29  <CIA-5> The main goal is to remove "disabled_state", "hiddden_state" and "click_state"
00:50:29  <CIA-5> from Window struct (those were 32 bits, with each bit representing the state
00:50:29  <CIA-5> of a widget, thus maximum of 32 widgets) and replace them by new flags on
00:50:30  <CIA-5> "resize_flag", renamed to "visual_flags", on the Widget structure.
00:50:34  <CIA-5> This will allow every widget to contain its own aspect.
00:51:39  <Belugas_Gone> And it should have been followed by : "Anyone is free to commit in this branch, to correct as well as to extend it."
00:52:14  <kbrooks> Belugas_Gone: heh
00:52:20  <glx> and "Some more features will eventually be coded. Time will tell ;) " too :)
00:52:33  <Belugas_Gone> heheh :)
00:52:36  <Belugas_Gone> yes indeed
00:52:43  <Belugas_Gone> but less significant ;)
00:52:45  <Sacro> Belugas_Gone: how about maybe using GTK/QT/wxwidgets
00:52:53  <Sacro> anyone is free...?
00:53:01  <Belugas_Gone> not the purpose, Sacro
00:53:05  <glx> wxwidget is c++
00:53:13  <glx> and huge
00:53:26  <Sacro> hmm, well what about GTK? its cross platform
00:53:29  <Belugas_Gone> and we are not talking of a new widget, just an extension
00:53:47  <Belugas_Gone> now, time to fill it up...
00:54:13  <Burgundavia> Sacro: gtk (or qt) are bad things for games.
00:54:37  <kbrooks> why, Burgundavia ?
00:54:53  <Burgundavia> kbrooks: they add overhead without clear gain
00:55:04  <Burgundavia> plus they constrain you to a visual style
00:55:16  <Burgundavia> look at the hacking freeciv has had to do, for little visual gain
00:55:27  <kbrooks> Burgundavia: what hacking?
00:55:43  <Burgundavia> they are applying a theme seperately from the system
00:55:51  <Burgundavia> which requires some fun, from what i understand
00:55:55  <kbrooks> what system? :-)
00:56:13  <Burgundavia> if you run on Linux...
00:56:36  <Sacro> which i do
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00:57:05  <Burgundavia> plus if you run on OS X or Windows you need to install GTK as well
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00:57:22  <hylje> Burgundavia: or god forbid KDE
00:57:22  <Sacro> yeah... people wont see a problem if its worth it
00:57:29  <Burgundavia> and currently OS X requires X11 for GTK (although there is alpha support to get rid of this)
00:57:38  <DesktopMan> hmm is there an easy way to modify every direct pixel access? I only have 16 bit access
00:57:42  <Burgundavia> but you raise the barrier for no clear gain
00:57:55  <Burgundavia> games are very different beasts to most apps
01:01:08  <Sacro> well if it ever switches to opengl, i reckon gtk/qt/whatever will be useful
01:01:32  <Burgundavia> umm, that is a very strange statement
01:02:47  <DesktopMan> if openttd uses 100% cpu, is that mostly game logic or sdl?
01:03:09  <Burgundavia> DesktopMan: the former, I would gather
01:03:27  <DesktopMan> even at the title screen?
01:03:30  <DesktopMan> that seems unrealistic
01:03:34  <Burgundavia> hmm
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01:27:23  <kbrooks> I want to force trains to enter a depot.
01:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> that is nice of you...
01:28:51  <kbrooks> But how?/
01:30:00  <Triffid_Hunter> kbrooks: there's a button on the side of the train route planner
01:30:17  <kbrooks> another q. i have a train with sucky profit
01:30:31  <kbrooks> -X,XXX dollars
01:30:51  <kbrooks> what could i possibly do?
01:31:25  <glx> what cargo?
01:31:34  <Triffid_Hunter> kbrooks: reassign it
01:31:40  <kbrooks> glx: i dunno, ill find out in a second
01:33:00  <kbrooks> coal, glx
01:33:14  <kbrooks> 4 coal holders
01:33:39  <glx> coal trains are the most profitable
01:33:41  <kbrooks> glx: afaics
01:34:04  <kbrooks> glx: then its some other factor.
01:34:19  <glx> mine production?
01:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause> you sure it actually delivers anything?
01:35:32  <kbrooks> i added passenger
01:35:43  <kbrooks> it had surplus anyways
01:35:54  <kbrooks> (station)
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01:47:18  <radugc> hello all
01:47:25  <radugc> anybody awake?
01:47:42  <Belugas_Gone> some are :)
01:48:47  <radugc> well sorry to bother you with a dumb question but i've just downloaded the 0.4.8-RC patch and i see no changes.. the website says something about land generation but i see no new buttons or such in the scenario editor
01:49:14  <glx> it's not in 0.4.8-RC2
01:49:16  <radugc> i was just curious about the new changes
01:49:56  <radugc> well yeah i have the rc2, but then if they're not in rc2 anymore what's the point in 0.4.8?
01:50:27  <glx> new land generation RC is here
01:50:28  <Belugas_Gone> error, my friend
01:50:47  <Belugas_Gone> land generator is STILL there, but a NEW ONE is been prepared
01:51:04  <radugc> yeah i was just curious about tgp :)
01:51:41  <glx> there will be no new feature in 0.4.x, only bug fixes
01:52:00  <CIA-5> belugas * r5785 /trunk/table/track_land.h: Fix(5771) : Silenced a warning in MSVC that prevented from compiling.
01:52:01  <hylje> when we start merging branches in
01:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> all new features are saved for 0.5.0 release
01:52:32  <kbrooks> what are these new features
01:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> which might be imminent, or not ;)
01:52:38  <kbrooks> just curious
01:52:45  <radugc> ok got it now
01:52:53  <hylje> tgp, bridges, some MiniIN stuff..?
01:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> starting from elrails
01:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> over newstations
01:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> YAPF
01:53:08  <kbrooks> "newstations"?
01:53:10  <glx> TGP
01:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> TGP
01:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly new signals
01:53:24  <Eddi|zuHause> new bridges
01:53:27  <kbrooks> whats YAPF ?
01:53:30  <radugc> how about trams?
01:53:35  <glx> lot of newgrf improvements
01:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> someone started with newindustries
01:54:12  <radugc> i run the tgp now.. and see the changes.. nice
01:54:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there were rumors of newsounds ;)
01:54:20  <hylje> horizontal/vertical tracks over road
01:54:51  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: yeah someone should commit his stuff :)
01:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> err... i don't think that is a candidate for trunk just yet, hylje
01:55:04  <hylje> its such a small thing is it?
01:55:35  <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause: trunk doesnt have to be purrrrfect.
01:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik it is lacking graphics, and some handling of multi-tile-crossings
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01:56:09  <Belugas_Gone> glx : it seems that the someone in question is hooked on music, right now ;)
01:56:36  <hylje> from my testings multi-tile-crossings work as intended, but yes, graphics are useful too
01:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but i am not someone who decides what goes to trunk and what not ;)
01:57:49  <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause: who decides?
01:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the developers?
01:58:12  <hylje> developers, developers, developers
01:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the "team" ;)
01:58:35  <kbrooks> devvies :p
01:58:39  <kbrooks> devvers :p
01:58:45  <kbrooks> devlopers :p
01:58:50  <kbrooks> dlpers :p
01:58:52  <kbrooks> lol
01:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i have lost overview about who is actually in charge ;)
01:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> diapers? hardly...
01:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... it's 4AM, i should be sleeping
02:00:07  <kbrooks> go onnnnnnn, Eddi|zuHause
02:00:16  <radugc> wow! the land generated in the editor with the tgp looks awesome!!
02:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the point of the new generator ;)
02:00:59  <glx> and heightmaps are cool too
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02:01:56  <radugc> yet, can this generator be configured to make rivers?
02:02:05  <glx> no
02:02:12  <glx> but maybe later
02:02:24  <glx> who knows ? :)
02:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik, someone made a river generator
02:02:40  <kbrooks> hehe, open source rules
02:02:43  <radugc> the original was more likely to produce river-like forms, but tgp is cooler anyway
02:02:56  <radugc> and we need trams :)
02:03:05  <kbrooks> "trams"?
02:03:11  <kbrooks> wtf are trams
02:03:14  <Magus_X> trams are not really needed
02:03:18  <mikk36> lol :P
02:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause> we have trams
02:03:29  <Magus_X> imo we need depots along the rail, not beside it
02:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause> only they behave like all other road vehicles ;)
02:03:42  <kbrooks> what are TRAMS Eddi|zuHause ?
02:03:45  <radugc> well if there is there a way to put track along the road then you can have trams too
02:03:48  <Magus_X> and bus stops at the middle of the road, not out of it
02:03:53  <Magus_X> like it is on real life
02:04:14  <mikk36>
02:05:05  <glx> Magus_X: there's a patch for drivethrough bus stop
02:05:15  <Magus_X> i cant install patches
02:05:16  <Magus_X> :~~
02:05:16  <kbrooks> tram == streetcar ...
02:05:17  <radugc> i often focus on passenger transport and urban networks in ttd because it's more fun (the challange of working with authorities).. putting trams or subways in the game would be a gem
02:05:17  <hylje> drivethrough bus stops arent really functional though
02:05:18  <Magus_X> windows user
02:05:27  <glx> and I think it's in miniIN
02:05:29  <kbrooks> so they are the same
02:05:32  <Magus_X> |hylje|: yes they are
02:05:36  <kbrooks> i didnt know that!
02:05:44  <Magus_X> because if the autority dont allows you
02:05:52  <Magus_X> to demolish a house to build the stop
02:05:56  <Magus_X> what the hell you will do?
02:06:06  <hylje> Magus_X: it doesnt allow you to demolish the roads then
02:06:16  <hylje> Magus_X: not to mention town-owned loops
02:06:22  <Magus_X> oh
02:06:27  <Magus_X> you're right
02:06:41  <radugc> i like those maps with the map with big interconected cities and then strive to make a train line through the cities
02:06:42  <hylje> and besides
02:06:43  <radugc> it's challenging
02:07:00  <hylje> i heard buses get stuck in the drivethrough ones sometimes
02:07:36  <kbrooks> wouldnt subways be hard to implement? :-)
02:08:35  <glx> very hard
02:08:43  <hylje> very hard as long as tunnels are magic
02:08:58  <radugc> i think they'd be a hell to implement not to mention the actual way the player should manipulate them: they'd need a subteranean level maybe like in simcity
02:08:59  <glx> the current map array can't support underground stuff for now
02:09:02  <hylje> when we get tunnels materialised (newmaparray?) it could be possible
02:09:16  <hylje> radugc: subterranean level*s*
02:09:45  <radugc> i meant layer
02:09:51  <radugc> just to see what's underground
02:09:58  <hylje> but with the new map array i suppose you could do underground track as overground track
02:10:13  <hylje> so nice junctions and stations under the ground
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02:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> we also need elevated tracks ;)
02:11:00  <hylje> yeh
02:11:17  <hylje> id rather make buildable platforms
02:11:27  <hylje> to replace bridges and allow elevated track
02:11:33  <radugc> ok and one more idea that i have.. that i believe it's really easy to implement
02:11:43  <radugc> an "load only" command
02:12:01  <glx> load only??
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02:12:45  <radugc> like i have those 2 smaller cities on a line ( i like to make realistic multi-station routes ) and i just want passengers to load to go to a 3rd bigger town
02:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be a waste of programming effort...
02:13:30  <radugc> really? i didn't realise that
02:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> rather create cargo packages
02:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (including passenger destinations)
02:13:56  <hylje> indeed
02:13:58  <mikk36> well, doesn't "load" command do just that ?
02:14:11  <mikk36> just load and don't unload ?
02:14:15  <radugc> no, you just have the full-load command
02:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> no, full load still unloads first
02:14:43  <mikk36> blah then :P
02:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you could use "transfer and full load"
02:14:51  <mikk36> ok
02:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that'd do the trick
02:14:57  <mikk36> nighty night
02:15:01  <mikk36> bye :)
02:15:05  <radugc> i'll try it :)
02:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> or just transfer...
02:15:43  <glx> but you'll lose money with transfer :)
02:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but the current transfer order is rubbish
02:15:52  <radugc> truth is.. i never used the transfer command
02:16:33  <radugc> it's exotic open ttd stuff for me
02:23:06  <radugc> heh.
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02:23:26  <radugc> "transfer and take cargo" does just that
02:23:28  <radugc> :)
02:25:40  <radugc> because it unloads all passengers then loads the one it brought plus the existing ones
02:26:03  <radugc> it looks like a waste of money but it's not that catastrophic because you get money for the transfer too
02:26:27  <radugc> however the "load only" would differentiate between the previous cargo and the newly loaded one
02:30:05  <Belugas_Gone> Imagine this : run several busses or trucks, gathering whatever cargo on small distances and transfer those cargo to a massive train station.  Now, that starts to get interesting!
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02:30:50  <Belugas_Gone> you do not need to rely entirely on one transport type to achieve your goals.
02:30:59  <Eddi|zuHause> radugc: the problem is, you cannot determine the source of each passenger individually
02:31:16  <Eddi|zuHause> they all get put into one "bucket", and treated the same
02:31:26  <radugc> yeah, it could have multiple uses but where i started was just these long realistic multi - station passenger lines that i build ( i know that it's more profitable in the game to make just a line with just 2 stations but i like it this way )
02:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> in order to remember where each passenger came from, you need cargo packets
02:32:14  <radugc> Eddi> yeah i realised that while writing my idea here, it would need more coding then i thought
02:32:27  <radugc> each package would need to memorize it's starting point
02:35:15  <Belugas_Gone> radugc, there is already a branch that deals with that
02:35:27  <glx> but very outdated
02:35:29  <Belugas_Gone> althoug it's a bit... inactive
02:35:39  <Belugas_Gone> yes, to say the least :)
02:35:45  <radugc> .. :)
02:35:55  <kbrooks> can I ask :p
02:35:55  <radugc> a branch?
02:35:56  <kbrooks> um
02:36:12  <radugc> like a programming direction that was abandoned?
02:36:33  <Belugas_Gone>
02:36:40  <kbrooks> whats the advantage of using 2 transport types :p
02:37:02  <radugc> i'm using windows
02:37:06  <radugc> what can i compile them with?
02:37:07  <Belugas_Gone> not abandoned... let say... put on hold maybe?
02:37:15  <kbrooks> whats the advantage of using 2 transport types?
02:37:23  <radugc> any c compiler will do or are they for linux?
02:37:24  <Belugas_Gone> i've never compiled it, to be honest...
02:37:39  <kbrooks> whats the advantage of using 2 transport types?
02:37:47  <Belugas_Gone> a lot of advantages, kbrooks
02:37:48  <glx> kbrooks: more stuff to transport on long distance
02:38:02  <Belugas_Gone> speed VS load
02:38:03  <kbrooks> Belugas_Gone: like?
02:38:15  <kbrooks> Belugas_Gone: whats speed vs load?
02:38:28  <radugc> kbrooks: what do you mean with 2 transport types?
02:38:41  <Belugas_Gone> planes are faster then trains, for instance
02:39:14  <kbrooks> radugc: train and then road for instance
02:39:14  <radugc> ah.. ok now i get the questions
02:39:21  <radugc> *question
02:39:22  <Belugas_Gone> trucks and busses use road, which are easy to lay out
02:39:25  <Belugas_Gone> easier then trains
02:39:37  <radugc> well  yeah they pay more cause they're faster but they carry much less
02:39:49  <Belugas_Gone> trains can carry an awfull load of cargos
02:39:58  <radugc> and buses are just for making towns fat, as we all know :)
02:40:05  <Belugas_Gone> so choose your type, types
02:40:21  <Belugas_Gone> radugc : false I use them a lot to fill up big stations
02:40:25  <Belugas_Gone> with transfers
02:40:28  <Belugas_Gone> worth it
02:40:30  <radugc> but is that profitable?
02:40:37  <glx> buses (slow and small) feed airport or train station, then plane (fast) or train (fast and big) do the long distance trip
02:40:38  <radugc> i'll try it if you say :)
02:41:08  <glx> should be profitable but transfer system is quite "broken"
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02:41:30  <radugc> use unload
02:41:49  <radugc> so the goods will be en-route
02:42:12  <glx> but your RVs will lose money
02:42:14  <kbrooks> "en-route"?
02:42:20  <kbrooks> glx: "RVs"?
02:42:26  <glx> road vehicles
02:42:39  <kbrooks> why could they lose $ ?
02:42:46  <radugc> "en-route" that's what the game wrote after goods unloaded with "unload" in the original ttdx
02:42:53  <radugc> i haven't used unload or transfer in open ttd :)
02:43:32  <glx> kbrooks: because the RV travel distance is often too small in this kind of setup
02:44:01  <kbrooks> glx: what kind of setup?
02:44:19  <glx> RV -> train
02:45:49  <radugc> also, i think electrified railway should be (much) more expensive than regular, because like this it makes no sense not to build electrified in the first place ( if available )
02:46:22  <UserErr0r> so what does transfer do on the orders list
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02:46:47  <kbrooks> what is elrails for? why?
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02:47:06  <glx> elrails are needed to run electric trains
02:47:12  <kbrooks> eh?
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03:05:45  <CIA-5> belugas * r5786 /branches/XTDwidget/ (19 files in 2 dirs):
03:05:45  <CIA-5> [XTDwidget] Add the basis of the disabled system
03:05:45  <CIA-5> -Widget.resize_flag is now Widget.visual_flags
03:05:45  <CIA-5> -3 functions to access the flags :(Is|Set)[IsThis]WidgetDisabled
03:05:45  <CIA-5> -Synch up to 5785
03:05:46  <CIA-5> All disabled_state are not yet removed.
03:05:48  <CIA-5> So some strange behaviours may happen until then
03:08:18  <Belugas_Gone> 'night all
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04:01:40  <alcyx> kbrooks: what eh you?
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07:31:17  <publunch> Hello pissaking
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07:36:18  <Zavior> Erm
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08:23:23  <CIA-5> tron * r5787 /trunk/ (newgrf.c rail_cmd.c sprite.h station_cmd.c unmovable_cmd.c): Rename width, height and unk of struct DrawTileSeqStruct to size_{x,y,z}
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09:35:21  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: hi
09:35:22  <MiHaMiX> :)
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09:53:00  <Gonozal_VIII> thank you all for making this great game :-)
09:54:08  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: you are thanking the wrong people.
09:54:26  <ln-> the game was made by chris sawyer.
09:54:58  <Gonozal_VIII> i played ttd years ago but openttd is much better
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10:54:14  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5788 /branches/TGP/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [TGP] -Add: patch option to configure the progress update interval
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11:11:38  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5789 /branches/TGP/clear_cmd.c: [TGP] -Change: do not place rocky/rough tiles in the desert as they have to be removed later.
11:13:21  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5790 /branches/TGP/landscape.c: [TGP] -Change: also make shores during the conversion of flat level 0 tiles to water.
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12:07:26  <eQualizer> Is Locomotive worth a try?
12:08:22  <RaduGC> no
12:09:00  <Naksu> well
12:09:05  <Naksu> it's worth a try and not more :)
12:09:25  <RaduGC> yeah if you can play it for free, it's ok but i wouldn't waste my money on it
12:10:43  <kbrooks> shareware games suck :p
12:11:32  <RaduGC> can you use color heightmaps?
12:11:39  <RaduGC> or only b/w
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12:40:23  <Wolf01> yo
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13:26:06  <CIA-5> truelight * r5791 /branches/TGP/landscape.c: [TGP] -Fix r5790: too many tiles were shore now ;) (NS and EW slopes can never be shore, we don't have sprites for them) (Rubidium)
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13:45:44  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5792 /branches/TGP/heightmap.c:
13:45:44  <CIA-5> [TGP] -Feature: use the order of the PNG palette instead of the brightness when
13:45:44  <CIA-5> the palette is not completely grayscale and the size of the palette is 16. This
13:45:44  <CIA-5> makes it possible to have color coded heightlevels, which are much easier to
13:45:44  <CIA-5> distinguish than a grayscale image.
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14:02:11  <CIA-5> truelight * r5793 /branches/TGP/TODO.TGP:
14:02:11  <CIA-5> [TGP] -Update: removed some entries from TODO that won't happen in TGP.
14:02:11  <CIA-5>  Most important one: town-placement NEEDS to be done on flat tiles. This can
14:02:11  <CIA-5>  be fixed of course, but it needs a lot of work and is out-of-scope for TGP.
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14:06:34  <Born_Acorn> More "TTDPatch or OpenTTD" topics. At least this time it's friendly. :p
14:06:54  <Kjetil> Sounds like a flamewar
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14:08:28  <Bjarni> not really
14:08:38  <Bjarni> this one is much shorter
14:08:44  <Bjarni> it's over the minute we burned them
14:09:02  <Born_Acorn>
14:09:10  <Bjarni> -ed
14:10:17  <Born_Acorn> Soon someone will go in and say "OpenTTD/TTDPatch smells", and the flamewar ensues.
14:10:52  <Bjarni> ok
14:11:03  <Bjarni> hang on a minute
14:11:24  <hylje> Born_Acorn: OpenTTD and TTDPatch smell.
14:11:41  <Born_Acorn> :o
14:11:42  <Kjetil> Your mother was a hamster and ttdpatch smells of elleberries
14:11:44  <Bjarni> hehe, it would really end up as a serious flamewar is I say something bad about the patch XD
14:12:03  <Bjarni> also because it's not that bad
14:12:25  <Bjarni> so I would not state my opinion... it's just... not cross platform enough
14:12:39  <Kjetil> not cross platform at all :P
14:13:16  <hylje> well, it runs on windows, and windows that version
14:13:43  <Born_Acorn> and wine!
14:14:17  <Bjarni> but it's hardcoded i386
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14:14:43  <hylje> so it doesnt work on NT for PowerPC, Itanium or Alpha
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14:14:56  <Bjarni> so you need an emulator unless you happen to have the "right" hardware
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14:20:06  <RaduGC> what's PBS in TTD Patch and why would anyone want to play ttd patch?
14:21:01  <Bjarni> post that and the flame war will start :P
14:21:42  <Bjarni> to answer your questions: some signal system (I'm not entirely sure how the patch made it work) and I don't know
14:22:09  <RaduGC> well i don't want that to happen so i was just asking :P don't get me wrong i've been playing ttdx from 1998 but the thing that really keeps me into open ttd is the interface.. i could never play it in 640 by 480 with non-resizable windows again
14:23:22  <RaduGC> and of course the fact that anything that already is in ttd patch can be put into open ttd in the future
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14:23:54  <hylje> hmm bridgebranch has broken loading from earlier versions?
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14:24:59  <hylje> and i want some of the branch sweeties to be merged into something
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14:50:12  <Zavior> What are these speed signals in mini-in?
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14:53:08  <hylje> they, for example, control train pathing by speed
14:53:48  <Zavior> Like green for trains under x speed, and yellow for under speed of y?
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15:00:13  <luckzi> oh, are they in in some actually released version?!
15:02:41  <hylje> try miniin, it got plenty of little stuff
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15:18:07  <luckzi> hylje: in the sense of "they aren't in Mini, or are they? I'm very sure they're not."
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15:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> they once were in miniIN
15:27:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think they came back after YAPF merge
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15:47:58  <RaduGC> which is the tram tracks grf file for ttdpatch? i can't find it
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15:50:06  <RaduGC> i got it never mind
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16:12:35  <Wolf01> how i handle the widgets in a gui? aka how i find which button i clicked?
16:13:23  <glx> look *WndProc in *_gui.c
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16:15:04  <tron_> especially look for "case WE_CLICK:"
16:15:13  <Wolf01> yes i know
16:15:41  <Wolf01> but how i count buttons?
16:16:25  <Wolf01> are in the same order i put in "static const Widget _*_widgets[] = {"
16:16:29  <Wolf01> ?
16:16:33  <glx> it uses the index in widget array
16:17:46  <Wolf01> so if the button is in the 6 position, i have to do if ((e->click.widget == 6)) {?
16:17:59  <Frostregen> 5
16:18:02  <Frostregen> starts from 0
16:18:03  <Wolf01> yes 5
16:19:15  <Wolf01> ok, now works, maybe before i mistook to count the widgets
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16:32:53  <CIA-5> tron * r5794 /trunk/ (14 files): Pass the TileIndex plus x and y coordinates into GetSlopeZ_* instead of a TileInfo
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16:45:29  <Wolf01> tron_, could you help me with the eyecandy feature?
16:45:57  <Wolf01> i need to be able to place newstations stuff with the purchase land tool
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17:23:08  <kbrooks> how do i stop passengers from going to a certain station?
17:23:37  <luckzi> you do a nonstop order to the station after them?
17:23:54  <luckzi> -them +the one you want to avoid
17:24:38  <kbrooks> have only two stations :-)
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17:24:48  <kbrooks> on this line
17:25:14  <luckzi> so.. what do you want to do?
17:25:32  <kbrooks> specifically, how doi reduce the demand for passengers?!?
17:25:35  <luckzi> you might actually have to explain the situation. do you want to just have your train stop and not move?
17:25:38  <luckzi> huh?
17:26:00  <kbrooks> the situation is this. i have a coal mine in a town...
17:26:06  <luckzi> ah, so you mean how you.. prevent passengers from appearing there?
17:26:12  <kbrooks> yeah
17:26:18  <luckzi> well, did you ever have a vehicle to transport them away from there?
17:26:38  <kbrooks> "ever"? no :-)
17:26:43  <luckzi> there's a patch to prevent things you don't try to transport off from appearing. it's on by default.
17:27:01  <luckzi> so that only when you throw a passenger train at them, passengers appear. and the same then goes for coal.
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17:27:29  <kbrooks> luckzi: what about servers? how do i turn that pm?
17:27:33  <luckzi> which version are you playing?
17:27:34  <kbrooks> on*
17:27:38  <kbrooks> 0.4.7
17:27:50  <kbrooks> server is 0.4.7 as well
17:28:12  <luckzi> oh. mh, I don't know 0.4.7 too well. I started with 0.4.8 RC1 and then switched to mini.
17:28:32  <luckzi> basically "Stations -> Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand" would need to be on
17:28:51  <kbrooks> its on!
17:29:08  <kbrooks> h/o, ill take these off :P
17:29:42  <kbrooks> (passenger vehicle)
17:30:14  <kbrooks> done
17:30:17  <kbrooks> lets see
17:30:41  <kbrooks> hmm, patch doesnt work. :|
17:30:48  <kbrooks> for some odd reason
17:31:16  <kbrooks> i swear it was on luckzi
17:31:26  <kbrooks> and i cant turn it off
17:31:48  <luckzi> well, I don't think you can do anything about it anymore once you had a passenger vehicle of any kind at the station
17:32:10  <kbrooks> luckzi: well, maybe the solution is to demolish and replace
17:34:02  <luckzi> you can try building a new unconnected bus station and seeing if that creates passengers by itself without any vehicle touching it
17:34:13  <luckzi> (of course one that has access to passengers)
17:34:51  <kbrooks> question :p are trams in miniIN ?
17:34:59  <glx> no
17:35:28  <kbrooks> glx: where can i get miniIN from?
17:35:57  <glx>
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17:37:59  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5795 /branches/TGP/heightmap.c: [TGP] -Fix (r5792): remove some totally unneeded shifts
17:38:08  <luckz> there are grf files with trams
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17:41:50  <kbrooks> whoo. :p
17:42:01  <kbrooks> minin has ummm tgp
17:44:35  <kbrooks> tgp is ... coool
17:44:41  <luckz> tgp?
17:44:59  <kbrooks> dont remember
17:45:05  <kbrooks> but it means something
17:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it does :)
17:45:41  <kbrooks> miniin has elrails :p
17:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause> trunk has elrails, too
17:48:48  <kbrooks> ah
17:48:52  <kbrooks> didnt know :p
17:49:50  <|Jeroen|> miniin is pretty nice actualy
17:49:55  <|Jeroen|> lots of fun patches
17:50:19  <|Jeroen|> and the copy paste stuff makes it easy for lazzy people like me
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17:51:33  <kbrooks>  hehe |Jeroen|
17:51:45  <Sacro> !log
17:51:47  <SpComb> Logs:
17:51:47  <Sacro> !logs
17:52:04  <|Jeroen|> hehe
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18:02:26  <Wolf01> how i can know if are newstations loaded?
18:02:51  <Wolf01> (i need it to disable a button)
18:03:43  <peter1138> the existing code checks that, so follow it
18:05:09  <Wolf01> mmm
18:06:13  <Wolf01> i included newgrf_station.h, but i can't find anything
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18:06:48  <Wolf01> in rail_gui.c there is the _newstations variable
18:07:15  <peter1138> yes
18:07:16  <Wolf01> which tells if there is a newstation available
18:07:23  <peter1138> in ShowStationBuilder()
18:07:28  <Wolf01> yes there
18:07:45  <Wolf01> but is a part of a struct for stations
18:07:50  <peter1138> ...
18:07:53  <peter1138> if (GetNumStationClasses() <= 2 && GetNumCustomStations(STAT_CLASS_DFLT) == 1) {
18:07:57  <peter1138> ...
18:08:14  <peter1138> it's not that hard to follow, is it?
18:08:53  <Wolf01> maybe i'm blind
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18:36:40  <CIA-5> tron * r5796 /trunk/ (road_cmd.c table/road_land.h): Use DrawTileSprites/DrawTileSeqStruct for road depot drawing data, too
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19:04:52  <Wolf01> if ((GetNumStationClasses() <= 2) && (GetNumCustomStations(STAT_CLASS_DFLT) == 1) && _networking)
19:04:52  <Wolf01> 	HandlePlacePushButton(w, 8, SPR_CURSOR_BUY_LAND, 1, PlaceProc_BuyLand);
19:04:52  <Wolf01> else
19:04:52  <Wolf01> 	ShowEyecandyToolbar(0);
19:04:52  <Wolf01> there is something strange, the test is false when i'm on multiplayer (but the first part is correct, i tested it before adding the networking part)
19:09:01  <Sacro> yeah it will be false
19:09:01  <Sacro> 1 && 1 && 0 = 0
19:09:02  <Sacro> Wolf01: PING
19:09:20  <MiHaMiX> gn
19:09:23  <Wolf01> in multiplayer _networking should be true
19:09:26  <Sacro> night michi_cc
19:09:29  <Sacro> Wolf01: you sure?
19:09:45  <Wolf01> yes, i use it in another function and there wirks
19:09:58  <Wolf01> *s/wirks/works
19:13:08  <Wolf01> and if _networking was true when in single, i should have the function toggled, but is the same in single and in multy: always false (until i remove newstations.grf)
19:13:38  <Sacro> hmm
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19:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it rather be °|| _networking°?
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19:26:07  <Wolf01> right, i didn't thought about the OR, and, nand, xor, bitshifting register, z80 but not the or
19:30:31  <Wolf01> ok, now the gui is ready to integrate newstation stuff
19:30:44  <Wolf01> 6 hours to code a gui -.-
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19:39:36  <Bjarni> well
19:39:47  <Bjarni> you still count in hours, not days
19:40:10  <Wolf01> wait, newstation integration may take months
19:40:30  <Wolf01> is not so easy as i thought
19:40:41  <Bjarni> it took me as long to code the autoreplace GUI as it took me to code the autoreplace functional code
19:41:21  <Wolf01> newstation was yours?
19:41:40  <Bjarni> no, and I never said that
19:41:45  <Bjarni> I said autoreplace
19:41:57  <Bjarni> in reply to <Wolf01>	6 hours to code a gui -.-
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19:42:40  <Wolf01> ah i understood that newstation took 6 hours of coding... maybe i have to read better things ;)
19:42:42  <Bjarni> the GUI system in OTTD is not the nicest one you can find
19:43:19  <Bjarni> but at least it works
19:43:47  <Wolf01> i found it symple than other things
19:44:22  <ln-> "Sagaen om DSBs problemer og forsinkelserne af nye tog får tilføjet endnu et dramatisk kapital. Transportminster Flemming hansen opfordrer DSB til at bryde kontakten om 23 IC2-tog. DSB afviser at begå kontraktbrud."
19:44:27  <Bjarni> <Bjarni>	the code in OTTD is not the nicest one you can find
19:44:36  <Bjarni> <Bjarni>	but at least it works
19:45:12  <Bjarni> ln-: you are reading news in Danish???
19:45:56  <Wolf01> mmmm i still need of a working unicode+monospace font
19:45:58  <ln-> SAS was giving free newspapers at CPH on friday.
19:46:10  <Wolf01> i
19:46:19  <Wolf01> ... damn backspace
19:46:26  <Wolf01> too near to enter
19:47:21  <Bjarni> Wolf01: well ' is next to enter as well
19:48:11  <Wolf01> not on the italian keyboard
19:48:13  <Bjarni> ln-: do you have any idea what the "DSB saga" is about?
19:48:15  <Wolf01> ;)
19:49:04  <Bjarni> it's the trains, that was ordered to start driving in 2002 or 2003 or something like that... they are still unable to drive
19:49:18  <ln-> why's that?
19:49:30  <Bjarni> and now with the new IC2 (whatever that is, that name was in use already) they appear to start a similar case
19:49:47  <Bjarni> oh, they don't work
19:50:03  <Bjarni> they look cool, but they don't work
19:52:03  <ln-> are they made in italy?
19:52:31  <Bjarni> how did you know that? :)
19:54:18  <ln-> i think the article said that, and besides there are badly-working italian trains in finland, too.
19:57:16  <Bjarni> oh and they are now a lot more expensive than the original price, but they do come from the homeland of the Farari, so we should be happy (at least that is what we are told)
19:57:34  <Bjarni> I think that's a crap reason to like a train...
20:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> mmmm i still need of a working unicode+monospace font <- try googling for °Fixedsys Excalibur" or something
20:00:17  <ln-> the Pendolino trains have now been in service for 10 years here, and they still have problems with reliability.
20:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i used
20:01:19  <Wolf01> can you upload it?
20:01:19  <ln-> the first two train units were at some point standing on a sidetrack for years.
20:01:43  <Bjarni> since trains do drive a lot, they will all get problems. The question is how many and if they affect reliability
20:01:43  *** Spocoo [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> er... i don't remember where i put it
20:02:08  <Wolf01> maybe in the font folder?
20:02:44  <Wolf01> i can't find it in google
20:03:06  <Bjarni> I remember an EMU type here, it would stop at any warning light (safety, don't drive with open doors and so on), but it also stopped if a toilet tank was full (it should only warn about that and lock the toilet)
20:03:09  <Wolf01> uhm maybe with excalibur+monospace
20:03:19  <Bjarni> another bug resulted in incorrect "tank full" signals
20:03:38  <Bjarni> those two bugs combined hurt reliability a lot
20:04:16  <ln-> connecting and disconnecting two Pendolino units is often very difficult.
20:04:53  *** Jinx [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:06:37  <Bjarni> oh that reminds me. I was once in a DMU, that should be connected to another DMU and they had problems with the couplers and they tried and tried to connect them.. after a while I said "if they had just decided to drive the front one on time and the other one 2-3 minutes later, then we would have been way passed (location) by now"
20:07:08  <Bjarni> we actually got a serious delay because of that, but they did manage to connect them in the end
20:08:39  <glx> here they once need to connect antoher EMU to the one I was in, because it
20:08:52  <glx> had a problem to start
20:09:50  <Wolf01> uhm, somebody can write some unicode chars?
20:09:56  <Bjarni> ß
20:09:59  <Bjarni> ?
20:10:06  <Bjarni> ?
20:10:07  <glx> ????????????????????
20:10:10  <Bjarni> is that enough?
20:10:18  <Wolf01> yes
20:10:36  <Wolf01> what i see is not good
20:10:47  <Bjarni>
20:10:56  <Bjarni> did that go any better?
20:11:00  <glx> lol
20:11:48  <Wolf01> but the courier new should be unicode
20:12:31  <Wolf01> and why i still see unicode chars as $£%£$% ????
20:13:18  <glx> does your irc client support unicode?
20:13:32  <Wolf01> is the 6.16
20:13:51  <glx> of what?
20:14:01  <Wolf01> the mirc version
20:15:54  <ln-> wasn't it 6.17 that supported utf-8
20:17:02  <glx> yes 6.17 and latest is 6.2
20:17:23  <Wolf01> ok, downloading
20:18:41  <Wolf01> going to install it
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20:20:19  <Wolf01> bleah, the interface is horrible
20:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> äöüß<-better now?
20:20:35  <Wolf01> yes
20:20:38  <glx> ????
20:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> cyrillic is ugly ;)
20:20:50  <Wolf01> now i see them, also cirillic
20:21:05  <ln-> cyrillic
20:21:17  <Wolf01> yeah.. little typo :P
20:21:26  <ln-> tu è italiano?
20:21:34  <Wolf01> yes
20:21:36  <ln-> ok
20:21:55  <ln-> congratulations for running OS/2 on Trenitalia's ticket vending machines.
20:22:47  <Wolf01> :)
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20:27:44  <RichK67> hi all
20:27:51  <RichK67> has brianetta been around?
20:27:53  <Wolf01> hi RichK67
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20:34:09  <Wolf01> nobody can "repair" the feed-rss in the svn?
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20:42:58  <glx> Wolf01: what would be broken?
20:43:18  <Wolf01> it says live feed download failed
20:43:29  <Wolf01> or what is in english
20:48:29  <glx> Wolf01:
20:48:29  <glx> [22:44:07] <@TrueLight> glx: now that really helps ;) hahahaha!
20:48:29  <glx> [22:44:51] <@TrueLight> glx: it looks fine to me.. it might be that a trac updated fixes it
20:48:29  <glx> [22:44:58] <@TrueLight> but that won'tbe done within this week
20:48:29  <glx> [22:45:59] <@TrueLight> Various encoding issues with the timeline RSS feed have been fixed. <- is in 0.9.4, we use 0.9.3
20:52:27  <Wolf01> uhm
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20:55:45  <Wolf01> RichK67, can you add the adjacent station patch? it works with no bugs (or at least not relevant), and is not made by me, is only a my idea, my patch was the first parallel version and was not used to make this patch
20:56:13  <Wolf01> (and this patch will be required for copypaste to copy stations)
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20:56:54  <SpComb> warning: you have been set on fire by Lakie
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20:59:33  <RichK67> wolf01: i asked for a *worked* game... preferably multiplayer... to prove it is ok... by your own admission it hasnt had the interest... i will only add it with evidence it does something worthwhile - (at the moment your examples dont even entirely make it clear why anyone would need the patch)
21:01:05  <Wolf01> i found it usefull to place bus bays in the center of a city, linked with a station in the neightbours to extend the catchement
21:01:22  <Wolf01> without destroying half of the city
21:02:45  <Wolf01> i also found it useful to place a station adjacent at an AI station
21:04:11  <Wolf01> because i needed that place to not make spaghetti railroads
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21:13:17  <RichK67> i am still not keen - it changes a fundamental thing - placing stations... its only real purpose is to break the catchment area concept... its not tested enough IMO (no evidence of savegames, no other players saying "yeah, we did 80 years with it and its FAB")... noone else is asking for it... and you are pestering about it to the point i feel like a dad being pestered "can i go to the park? can i go to the park?" every 5 mins... sorry... it doesnt give
21:16:33  <kbrooks> can i ask a question :P
21:16:56  <kbrooks> what is the "catchment area concept"?
21:16:59  <RichK67> fire away
21:17:30  <RichK67> where a station has a fixed amount of space around it that collects services (eg. passengers, mail)
21:18:00  <RichK67> this patch allows you to place station parts a loooong way away from your core station... so breaking the concept
21:18:16  <Wolf01> looong but in the station spread
21:18:18  <kbrooks> what station parts? :-)
21:19:04  <Wolf01> and you can do this now by hand by removing station parts
21:19:10  <kbrooks> RichK67: the patch seems like a good idea, but if i were you, i would wait for evidence of a savegame :)
21:19:27  <kbrooks> RichK67: (i want to see how it works, actually)
21:19:36  <Wolf01> you can
21:19:46  <kbrooks> Wolf01: can what?
21:20:05  <Wolf01> is in the forums, but i have to update the attachemnt
21:20:33  <Wolf01> or you can patch the miniIN with the diff
21:20:35  <kbrooks> Wolf01: how could i possibly even remove a station part? i tried destructing a station, but it destroys the full station
21:20:59  <Wolf01> just press the r key or the remove button when building a station
21:21:02  <kbrooks> and I cant remove a single rail from the station :-)
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21:22:01  <Wolf01> it doesn't change anything but station placement, maybe when frost has finished the copypaste improvement, this patch will be included
21:22:29  <kbrooks> Wolf01: stop saying that. you are still pestering RichK67 :-)
21:22:54  <kbrooks> Wolf01: *he* needs to see it for himself.
21:23:14  <Wolf01> but he doesn't want to try it, he is the cause and the effect!
21:23:52  <kbrooks> *drops subject*
21:24:09  <Wolf01> <- try it
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21:25:47  <kbrooks> um :-)
21:26:23  <Wolf01> ctrl to split always, alt to join always
21:27:08  <Wolf01> and it ask to join/split only if are you trying to place it adjacent to 2 different stations
21:27:37  <Wolf01> for now there are also opponents' stations listed, and you can't join to them
21:28:45  *** netgert [] has quit []
21:34:23  <Wolf01> the executable with lang files for who want to try
21:35:25  <kbrooks> whats performance?
21:35:45  <Wolf01> ?
21:35:53  <kbrooks> in openttd
21:36:24  <kbrooks> it says "transport company in trouble! xxx transport will be ... unless performance increases soon"
21:36:34  <kbrooks> (not mine :p)
21:36:46  <glx> oh xxx lose too much money
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21:37:06  <glx> it surely will go bankrupt
21:37:09  <kbrooks> lol, no vehicles
21:37:15  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
21:37:19  <kbrooks> can i buy this out? :p
21:37:26  <kbrooks> this is a network hame
21:37:29  *** Trenskow [n=outlet@] has joined #openttd
21:37:42  <kbrooks> will openttd ask me if i wish to buy out xxx transport ?
21:38:33  <Wolf01> i must go to bed... tomorrow will be an intense day of work
21:38:34  <kbrooks> sooo. 6it didnt :p
21:38:43  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:38:46  <RichK67> [22:23] Wolf01: but he doesn't want to try it, he is the cause and the effect!  <-- he is sceptical it is of any significant use... its not like say aircraft queueing where ppl have begged for its inclusion
21:38:48  <kbrooks> openttd deleted the company :p
21:39:54  <Wolf01> richk, that is because all wanted this feature, nobody know that is already coded because they see my name and they don't enter the topic and read
21:40:21  <kbrooks> buses suck, they can be sabotaged (the underlying network)
21:40:40  <Wolf01> i read about it in "i have more suggestions" tipocs
21:40:44  <Wolf01> *topics
21:40:49  <kbrooks> all but airplanes & trains suck
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21:41:14  <Wolf01> now i must go
21:41:18  <Wolf01> bbl
21:41:20  <RichK67> gn
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21:43:53  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5797 /branches/TGP/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [TGP] -Add: a warning when a heightmap is scaled with more than a factor two up or down, as too much resizing degrades the quality of the generated map.
21:45:57  <kbrooks> question :-) what are the advantages ogf subdisaries?
21:46:44  <kbrooks> if anyone  has a 5722 miniin save game showing off subdisaries, i'd be happy to see it
21:47:49  <RichK67> now there was a popular patch... my early versions of MiniIN felt really incomplete without it
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21:48:29  <kbrooks> oh sorry, subsidiaries
21:48:42  <RichK67> yeah - subsids... very good patch
21:49:16  <kbrooks> what are the advantages ogf subsidisaries though
21:50:11  <RichK67> they are like having a second player on your team - you can share their tracks etc, and can give or take money from them
21:50:38  <RichK67> but they operate as a separate company... works very nicely in multiplayer
21:51:21  <RichK67> it mainly helps organise your empire
21:54:56  <Naksu> miniin?
21:58:20  <RichK67> its a build of openTTD with lots of user patches added in... its like the Nightly+++   hence Integrated Nightly.... the Mini part is that when i started making it, i only intended adding about 8-10 patches.... its now over 30
21:59:31  <RichK67>   its a long thread... :)
22:00:00  <kbrooks> brb :-)
22:00:06  <RichK67> also the MiniIN wiki is handy
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22:11:27  <Bjarni> Italian Town Names              in MiniIN <-- why is that not in the trunk?
22:11:56  <Bjarni> is it because the list is too short or something like that?
22:12:00  <RichK67> because that list isnt up to date ;)
22:12:13  <Naksu> anyone know if there's a version of openttd with increased focus on transport network efficiency? one with possibly highly increased cost of building & maintenance
22:13:11  <Bjarni> RichK67: shame on you. You got a simple updating task and you failed it
22:13:23  <Bjarni> now I will have to make an example out of you
22:13:33  * Bjarni makes an example out of RichK67
22:13:33  <RichK67> :P ja baas
22:14:47  <Naksu> i guess what i'm looking for is a sort of sim city-ish openttd
22:18:44  <Bjarni> simOpenTTD?
22:19:08  <Bjarni> simOpenTTD v 1.17.5
22:19:14  <Bjarni> now that's easy to say :p
22:23:49  <RichK67> MiniIN does have the Advanced Town Handling patch which makes demolition *really* expensive in cities of over 5000 population
22:25:51  <RichK67> well... gn
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22:45:13  <kbrooks> so im being evil to AI in a single player gamee! XD
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23:01:44  <SpComb> what hapaned to quakenet?
23:01:56  *** XeryusTC [] has quit ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"]
23:02:48  *** Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #openttd
23:07:09  <Sacro> [23:48] * SpComb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:07:12  <Sacro> SpComb: ping
23:07:25  <SpComb> what the hell?
23:07:27  <SpComb> so it's still up?
23:07:33  <SpComb> it's just not working here at all
23:08:01  <Sacro> yeah, im still on it
23:08:03  <SpComb> I just get a connection timed out to
23:08:46  <Sacro> Your host is
23:08:47  <Sacro> g
23:09:32  <SpComb> ugh
23:09:34  <SpComb> scary
23:09:54  <Sacro> :o no more logs
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23:37:56  <kbrooks> I love miniIN
23:38:41  <kbrooks> really, i do :p
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23:47:58  <DesktopMan> what's miniIN?
23:48:00  * DesktopMan is confused
23:49:43  <Sacro_> DesktopMan: its a user patched version
23:51:25  <mikk36> there is no reason u shouldn't :)
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23:55:13  <kbrooks> hehe
23:56:15  <kbrooks> i dismantled an airport business (i had to, the airports were way too close to each other!!!)
23:56:19  <kbrooks> stupid AI

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