Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06 *** Zoiah [Zoiah@matryoshka.zoiah.net] has joined #openttd 00:02:04 *** Zoiah [Zoiah@matryoshka.zoiah.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 00:05:36 *** badut__ [~badut@58-84-90-205.dial-lns6.vic.chariot.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:06:41 *** badut__ [~badut@58-84-90-205.dial-lns6.vic.chariot.net.au] has quit [] 00:08:47 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 00:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> NAND signals are an ugly excuse for a programmable system... 00:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> load balancers should much rather be done through waypoints 00:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> than signal hacks 00:14:33 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:14:52 *** WolfAngel [~wolfangel@83.72.164.148.ip.tele2adsl.dk] has quit [Quit: I'm Gone] 00:15:24 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 00:15:44 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 00:16:58 <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause2: why? with NAND signals you can perform any logic :-) 00:17:14 <pv2b> any logical statement can be reduced to a bunch of NANDs 00:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> did you listen? they are UGLY 00:18:10 <pv2b> digital electronics is ugly? :-) 00:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> as are the coop-style priority signals 00:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> anything that abuses tracks for anything but train driving is ugly 00:21:11 <Sjoerd_> HI!!! 00:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> as for loadbalancers, i was thinking along those lines: 00:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> you make 2 waypoints 00:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Loadbalancer A.1" 00:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Loadbalancer A.2" 00:22:17 <OwenS> 1) More work 2) Imperfect 00:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> and whenever a train passes through 1, you switch the names (or a specific token variable) 00:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you need to modify the pathfinder 00:23:14 <OwenS> I would guess that trains don't care where theyre going once theyve started heading towards it, they would just have the tile 00:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> to penalize the waypoint 2 (or the one without token) 00:23:22 <OwenS> I dunno here though 00:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is also easily expandable 00:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> and does not use any additional track tiles 00:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> much cleaner 00:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> much smaller 00:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> much easier comprehensible 00:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> and should not be a lot of modification 00:24:44 <OwenS> And how do you program the connection that these waypoints have? 00:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> of the code 00:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> by checking the name 00:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> of the waypoints 00:25:13 <OwenS> The flickering of a name I can see is ugly IMO 00:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a minor detail 00:25:20 <OwenS> And how do you tell it to change the name? 00:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are already patches that add variables to waypoints 00:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can easily add more there 00:26:12 <OwenS> I would prefer to go for programable signals anyway 00:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> to improve the name thing 00:26:17 <OwenS> If we had the map array space 00:26:39 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause2: Not really, we are shockingly space limited in the map array 00:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a transport simulation, no fricking programming contest! 00:27:03 <OwenS> There are some things which are completely undoable without logic 00:27:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> OwenS: the waypoint stats are not stored in the map array 00:27:20 <DaleStan> But do they need to be done? 00:27:22 <OwenS> Now, we can either have discreet logic (Different signal types) or "integrated circuites" (Programable logic) 00:27:47 <OwenS> Or some things become impossible to do, which are definitely useful 00:28:35 * Sacro watches the young ones 00:28:50 <DaleStan> I'm all for powerful signal setups, but I still haven't seen a layout where a NAND signal was in any way useful. 00:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> stations, waypoints, industries, towns, and lots of other stuff store data in memory pools outside the map array 00:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> which have virtually no limitation 00:29:23 <DaleStan> That is "useful for train signalling". 00:29:24 <pv2b> DaleStan: are you talking about presignals, or some new signal i was previously unaware of, btw? 00:30:03 <pv2b> because current presignals are more like or gates. 00:30:13 <DaleStan> pv2b: presigs are OR signals, basically. NANDs will show red if all the ones behind them show green. 00:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a signal rewrite in progress 00:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> or at least planned 00:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's goal is to simplify signals, not complicate them... 00:31:03 <pv2b> DaleStan: pointless, in itself. but: since any type of logic can be made using NAND gates, not so pointless after all :-) 00:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> -' 00:31:08 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: is it? 00:31:34 <pv2b> you could make a computer in openttd :D 00:31:35 <OwenS> How do you simplify and maintain the current flexibilty? 00:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> the trick is, to do presignalling (90%) automatically 00:32:22 <OwenS> Like Locomotion does? 00:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know what locomotion does 00:32:52 <DaleStan> But making a computer is not what OpenTTD is for. You can write a prime number generator in John Conway's Game of Life, but is that really useful, or the best use of Life? 00:32:57 <OwenS> 2 or more 2 way signals behind a 1 way signal automatically becomes presignals 00:33:02 <pv2b> DaleStan: no, but it's cool 00:33:04 <pv2b> DaleStan: :D 00:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the first step was to make the game aware of a "signal block" concept 00:33:17 <pv2b> DaleStan: you could implement the game of life in openttd, and then implement a prime number genreator in life. 00:33:26 <pv2b> in openttd 00:33:28 <OwenS> O.o 00:33:34 <OwenS> How would you show the output? :P 00:33:35 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a2e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> from such a signal block, you can already derive most of the standard situations automatically 00:34:07 <pv2b> OwenS: you could pull train tracks to a display area on the map, where red or green signal states would show a dot matrix display 00:34:20 <OwenS> Haha 00:34:46 <lws1984> heh, wouldn't it be cool to have a dotmatrix board as a window for stations? 00:34:52 <lws1984> or one of those flippy ones 00:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are getting crazy 00:35:26 <pv2b> lws1984: implemented in openttd signalling logic? :D 00:35:30 <lws1984> well, that's what the second monitor could be for! 00:35:33 <lws1984> pv2b: why not? 00:35:45 <lws1984> I've always wanted to have something like that, makes it easier to keep track 00:35:49 <OwenS> But seriously, what harm does having NAND do? Especially if a patch setting is added to hide it (Enabled by default) 00:36:03 <OwenS> The signal display seems genuinely useful BTW 00:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> the harm is that it is a hack 00:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you will never get this through the devs 00:36:57 <OwenS> How is it a hack? 00:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is a gameplay hack 00:37:22 <OwenS> How? 00:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> not necessarily a code hack 00:37:59 <OwenS> So, how is it disrupting the gameplay? 00:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> it abuses game utilities (tracks&signals) in ways they were never intended to, and are completely unrealistic 00:38:21 <OwenS> So, people could say, do presignals 00:38:28 <OwenS> Presignals are unrealistic also 00:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> presignals DO have a realistic counterpart 00:38:45 <OwenS> If were going for full on realism, lets make trains have set platforms 00:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> trains do not have a set platform 00:39:13 <OwenS> They do in real lif 00:39:14 <OwenS> e 00:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> only a "preferred" platform 00:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> they can spontaneously be rerouted, if the situation occures 00:39:37 <OwenS> I can be GUARENTEED that the train I want will be arriving at it's specified platform 00:39:39 <lws1984> yeah, I'd like that 00:39:40 <OwenS> Only in an emergency 00:39:52 *** Progman [~progman@p5091F879.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> if another train is late and did not free the platform yet? i would not call that an emergency 00:40:44 <lws1984> nah, it's a "delay" 00:40:49 <OwenS> OK, that is also a possibilty. But the situation is incredibly rare 00:40:57 <OwenS> Or rather, abnormal 00:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is not as rare as you might think (or want it to be) 00:41:17 <lws1984> aye, happens all the freakin' time in Boston 00:41:19 <OwenS> Maybe we should give passenger trains timetables....... 00:41:25 <lolman> OwenS, do you not know the British rail system? 00:41:26 <lws1984> real pain in the rear 00:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and on that note: yes, i think trains should have such a platform attached to the orders 00:41:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-140-82-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:17 <OwenS> But, still, I can see no objectionable reason against programable signals 00:42:52 *** dp-_ [~dp@p54B2E309.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> the reason against it, is that they are too complex 00:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> s/, is/is, / 00:44:04 <OwenS> So, you dont want me to have a way to enforce specific constraints; Either signals or scripting 00:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said before, this game is no programming contest 00:44:35 <OwenS> Neither do I want it to be 00:44:57 <OwenS> But there are some situations which cannot be enforced without programming; Either in logic gate form or in signal form 00:46:41 <OwenS> These signals, though rare, are certainly mot momexistant 00:46:58 <lolman> not nonexistant* 00:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> please show me one signle NAND signal in the real world ;) 00:47:46 <OwenS> Thats why I would like programable signals instead 00:48:01 <OwenS> I would prefer NAND signals only as an interim solution I and a few others use 00:48:13 <mikk36> hey :) 00:48:14 <Sacro> NAND is programmable, in a rudimentary kind of way 00:48:37 <mikk36> does anyone here have leadtek TV2000 XP tv-card ? 00:49:26 <OwenS> Nope 00:49:49 *** dp- [~dp@p54B2D5D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> let's face it... there are basically 2 standard problems that are not sufficiently covered by the current signalling system (apart from PBS) 00:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> 1) load balancers 00:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> 2) priority mainlines 00:50:35 <OwenS> Prohibiting it even though it could confuse new users, even though it would be hidden from them by defualt, just seems silly 00:50:51 <OwenS> And there are others, like enforcing a preference 00:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can enforce preferences with waypoints 00:51:30 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i would like realistic deceleration, with yellow signals 00:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's like the easiest thing... 00:51:36 <OwenS> No, you cant 00:51:55 <OwenS> In this case I want trains to use a specific (closer) station IF, and ONLY IF, the station I want them to use is full 00:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not actually a standard situation 00:52:47 <OwenS> Yes, it IS not standard. But it isn't nonexistant 00:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, for load balancers i suggested the waypoint method 00:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is MUCH easier and cleaner than the signal method 00:53:50 <OwenS> Possibly, but I would say thats a hack on waypoints 00:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> and priorities should be (at least rudimentary) covered by the new signal system 00:53:53 <OwenS> http://img.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0608/18/nagel1.jpg <- EWW 00:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> with reserved paths in front of the train 00:54:19 <OwenS> Dedicating a signal to this priority would (IMO) be a waste of a signal type; Programable would do it for me 00:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> the trick is.. it has nothing special with the signal 00:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is the TRAIN that gets priorities 00:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> not the signal 00:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> the new signal system changes the behaviour 00:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> the signals depend on the train, and not the train depends on the signals 00:56:02 <OwenS> That, IMO, rocks, as long as it remains as flexible as now 00:57:12 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> there is a pdf somewhere outlining what it should do 00:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> short summary: trains reserve a path of 2x breaking distance ahead 00:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> signals are default red 00:58:19 <OwenS> Somewhat like Lomo then 00:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> and change green if a train reserves a path through it, and the path behind it is free 00:58:36 <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause3: sounds like a lot like what happens in Real Life 00:58:41 <OwenS> I like it, although I would like a way to check my junction is working withoiut sending a train trhough it... 00:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly :) 00:59:35 *** Ammler [~Ammler@162.147.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 01:01:46 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6aed.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 01:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> the priority thing in there is: fast trains have a long breaking distance, and thus reserve tracks way ahead 01:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> so trains from slower side lines have less chance of interrupting the main line 01:04:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77FC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:42 *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 01:13:55 *** Spoco [~Spoco@dsl-083-102-070-129.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 01:14:38 <Sjoerd_> hi 01:15:39 <lolman> Sjoerd_, ello 01:17:54 <lws1984> good evening Sjoerd_ 01:19:10 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 01:20:10 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn6-0-0-cust801.midd.cable.ntl.com] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.11.1 : http://kopete.kde.org] 01:23:34 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6aed.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer] 01:42:37 *** Peach [~Peach@cpe.atm2-0-1111159.0x50c6a2e6.odnxx4.customer.tele.dk] has quit [] 02:08:13 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@dslb-082-083-193-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: YOU! It was you wasn't it!?] 02:13:52 *** Ammler [~Ammler@162.147.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:17:54 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:18:57 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.149.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:12 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has joined #openttd 02:24:40 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC59F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:07 <Nigel> where are the miniin's hidden again? I remember someone telling me but the link has gone missing 02:34:19 <Nigel> hmm, never mind, got it 02:35:12 <mikk36> lol 02:35:17 <mikk36> i just found it too for ya :P 02:35:43 <mikk36> took me 30 seconds 02:37:08 <Nigel> I forgot that not everyone uses full lowercase in URL pathnames.... grrr 02:38:29 *** lolman [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:38:42 <Nigel> actually, i just realised that i'm a hypocrit on that statement 02:39:36 <mikk36> ? 02:44:14 <Nigel> I sent an email before refering to files that i had uploaded to my own site, that had uppercase 02:54:30 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-70-28.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:00:12 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-70-28.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:05 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:06 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 03:47:10 *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176114249.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 03:47:25 <Nigel> where is openttd.cfg meant to hide out on windows? 03:47:44 *** k-man [~jason@ppp13-157.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 03:47:47 <k-man> hello 03:48:07 <k-man> i wish you could build diagonal tunnels in opentts 03:48:12 <k-man> openttd i mean 03:48:24 <k-man> also, what do you do with passengers? 03:48:32 <Nigel> I wish i could build signals and juctions in the tunnels 03:48:41 <lws1984> k-man: you transport them 03:48:44 <k-man> Nigel, yeah, that too 03:48:55 <k-man> lws1984, but to where? any other station that accepts passengers? 03:48:58 <lws1984> yep 03:49:04 <k-man> ok 03:49:19 <k-man> so they are just like any other item one transports? 03:49:23 <lws1984> aye 03:49:31 <lws1984> just very finicky 03:49:41 <k-man> ok 03:49:42 <lws1984> they just HAVE to have windows in their carraiges 03:49:47 <k-man> hehe 03:50:44 <Nigel> wth, i can't seem to find my .cfg file, werid 03:56:30 <k-man> err.. so can i drop off passengers and pick up new passengers? 03:56:35 <k-man> how do i do that in the orders? 03:56:42 <k-man> all at the one station that is 04:12:22 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has joined #openttd 04:12:23 *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:47 <Nigel> can someone look at http://nigelj.com/screenshots/Drundborough Transport, 20th Sep 1938.PNG for me, there seems to be something wrong with PBS in the miniin, or my setup 04:13:16 *** exe [~dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 04:16:37 *** Guest56 [Gono@N728P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 04:20:44 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gono@N916P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:25 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 04:23:33 <Nigel> or is that how they are meant to work? 04:24:57 *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII 04:45:15 *** exe [~dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has left #openttd [] 04:48:48 <Nigel> yay, PBS just caused a major holdup 05:04:45 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.120.186] has joined #openttd 05:16:42 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:10 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has joined #openttd 06:05:25 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.120.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:50 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3EAE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:00 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 06:17:50 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3EF5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:43 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 06:32:19 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]] 06:41:20 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 06:54:20 *** guru3_ is now known as guru3 06:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Nigel: the .cfg gets created when you quit the game the first time 06:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and PBS require NPF on and YAPF off 07:10:22 <Nigel> bingo, i had YAPF on 07:11:59 <Nigel> maybe i won't have to kill that subsidary afterall 07:12:25 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:12:35 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:12:40 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [] 07:13:50 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 07:25:49 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:31:59 *** __bebe__ [ssssss@86.127.74.251] has joined #openttd 07:33:07 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 07:35:39 *** WolfAngel [~wolfangel@83.72.164.148.ip.tele2adsl.dk] has joined #openttd 07:36:21 *** __bebe__ is now known as xyz 07:43:24 <Maedhros> argh, transfers-- 07:43:41 <Maedhros> they're making this gradual loading patch so much more difficult 07:44:52 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]] 07:47:05 <xyz> is there a way to see the server name while playing 07:55:45 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-119-166.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:55:48 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-119-166.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:58:23 <Maedhros> actually... what is the point of the "transfer" order? it's completely useless without Full Load or Unload, and when they're set it doesn't appear to do anything either... 07:58:47 <Nigel> Eddi|zuHause, you saved my Iron Ore subsidary, thanks 08:02:52 <Zavior> Maedhros, it can be used to set up feeders 08:03:31 <Maedhros> Zavior: but can't you do exactly the same with just using Unload and Full Load? 08:04:47 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 08:05:08 <Maedhros> if you send a full train to a station with just "Transfer" in the orders, it will take the cargo away again immediately 08:05:54 <Maedhros> it only unloads the cargo with "Unload" in the orders, and the same effect seems to happen with or without "Transfer" 08:06:42 <Maedhros> and if you use "Transfer" with a station that actually accepts the cargo, you won't get any money from it 08:14:37 <Nigel> Maedhros, transfer + unload 08:14:55 <Nigel> and transfer+load 08:15:10 <Nigel> i guess it makes more sense with the loading in MiniIN 08:16:24 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 08:17:01 <Maedhros> Nigel: from what i can see in the code "Transfer" has no effect whatsoever on "Full Load" 08:17:32 <Maedhros> in fact, the only thing it does is to give you virtual money rather than real money if the station accepts the cargo, but you have "Transfer + Unload" in the orders 08:18:16 <Maedhros> i haven't looked at the loading stuff in MiniIN though ;) 08:21:49 * Maedhros looks embarassed 08:22:14 <Maedhros> no, it also leaves the cargo at the station even if the station accepts it with "Transfer" 08:27:50 *** xyz [ssssss@86.127.74.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:54 <Zavior> I tend to use transfer with busses and passengers trains early 08:31:21 <Zavior> take some busses, set them to transfer passengers to train station 08:32:45 <Maedhros> yeah, i actually tried it and realised i was talking rubbish... :-( 08:33:51 *** netgert [Gert@213-35-175-233-dsl.prn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 08:35:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host196-159.pool8256.interbusiness.it] has joined #openttd 08:35:28 <Wolf01> hi 08:35:55 <guru3> 'lo 08:36:20 <JohnUK89> Wolf01, ello 08:39:03 *** TrueLight [~truelight@s559112c3.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:55 *** TrueLight [~truelight@s559112c3.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:41:58 *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueLight] by ChanServ 08:50:57 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:55:08 <TrueLight> Morning all 08:55:19 *** TrueLight changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.8 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) 08:56:22 *** Zavior_ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:58:25 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:11 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:59:43 *** jailbreaker [~TY@mail.jetfinanceintl.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:50 *** Zavior^ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:02:26 <TrueLight> Notice to all people on the SVN maillist: incoming burst 09:02:41 <TrueLight> The mail-server refused mails for the last 3 days (virusscanner was crashed) 09:02:41 *** TinoDidri is now known as Jezral 09:02:46 <TrueLight> all mails are dequeuing now.... 09:03:10 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:12 *** Sjoerd_ [~Sjoerd@ip54576152.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:24 *** Zavior_ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:07:13 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:50 <Zavior^> See, my connection works 09:12:46 <guru3> lol 09:16:32 <JohnUK89> Better than mine...it completely dies :P 09:17:22 <hylje> :| 09:17:38 <JohnUK89> Roll on next month! 09:20:29 <JohnUK89> Next month I move...and get DSL :-D 09:22:41 *** zcram [~zcram@88.196.155.96] has joined #openttd 09:23:20 *** Der_Dirk [~Miranda@xdsl-84-44-151-118.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 09:23:26 <Der_Dirk> hello everyone 09:23:31 <Der_Dirk> I need some gameplay advice 09:23:52 <Der_Dirk> I have a big town (7500+ inhabitants) and a city-size airport in it 09:24:03 <Der_Dirk> however I now want to replace it with a metropolitan-sized one 09:24:09 <hylje> blow up the town 09:24:25 <Der_Dirk> but: there are way too many airplanes flying around / landing for me to replace it 09:24:28 <Der_Dirk> hylje: ... 09:24:44 <JohnUK89> Der_Dirk, but them all into another hangar... 09:24:46 <JohnUK89> put* 09:25:34 <Der_Dirk> JohnUK89 : The problem is: There are about 15 airplanes in the hangar of the one to be replaced 09:25:44 <hylje> fly them elsewhere 09:25:59 <JohnUK89> Der_Dirk, as hylje said, put them in another one :P 09:26:04 <Zavior^> Hopefully they are on shared orders.. :P 09:26:58 <Der_Dirk> I don't suppose so 09:27:30 <Der_Dirk> seems to be the only option 09:27:38 <Der_Dirk> I hoped there would be a less work-intense solution 09:27:44 <hylje> once you have emptied the hangar, it should be trivial to sneak the upgrade when there are no planes landing 09:27:50 <hylje> well 09:28:11 <hylje> aeroplanes are money machines, they ought to have some work in it 09:29:11 <TrueLight> Commit r5943: -Merge TGP (part r5725): -Codechange: renamed Thread to OTTDThread, as Windows 09:29:11 <TrueLight> (who else) uses Thread in winbase.h, and starts complaining if you define it 09:29:11 <TrueLight> otherwise (with weird, undefined errors) (tnx Arnau and Rubidium) 09:29:15 <TrueLight> (by lack of CIA :p) 09:30:48 <hylje> appoint TrueLight to be the new CIA 09:31:58 <TrueLight> Commit r5944: -Merge TGP (r5578, r5579, r5724, r5726): -Feature: filter for textboxes to only 09:31:58 <TrueLight> allow certain patterns (like numbers only) 09:34:07 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:42 <Naksu> er 09:45:50 <Naksu> why not just run an announce bot like cia? 09:46:14 <JohnUK89> Naksu, because CIA is still on Freenode 09:46:50 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has joined #openttd 09:47:30 <TrueLight> and the CIA guys are 'too busy' 09:47:38 <TrueLight> (really bad service I just call it, but what ever) 09:47:39 <Naksu> er i mean, you could run a bot with CIA-like functionality 09:47:44 <TrueLight> is being worked on 09:47:50 <TrueLight> just one thing at the time 09:48:09 <Nigel> hmm 09:48:35 <Nigel> wish i could transfer money between subsidary companies easier 09:49:35 <Nigel> my subsidary is making money too quickly 09:51:10 <Der_Dirk> phew, got the airport exchanged 09:51:26 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a164.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has joined #openttd 09:51:59 <Viper1> Hi to all! 09:52:25 <Viper1> I've a question, may be somebody know answer. 09:52:44 <Patrick`> Nigel: request that the subsidiary maintainer allow you to set a "auto transfer money to me" limit 09:53:10 <Nigel> thats a good idea 09:53:32 <Nigel> 70% off profits at end of year (assuming that the company made a +) 09:53:47 <Nigel> configurable of course 09:54:42 <Nigel> so for a new subsidaries you can have a 'cover losses', for older ones, 'transfer x% to parent' 09:55:25 *** Rens2Intarweb [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has joined #openttd 09:55:45 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:57 <Nigel> but also, clicking on 20k buttons is a pain 09:56:19 <Viper1> Why income has non-linear character? Trasporting 20 squares 20 days is dramaticaly worse, than transporting 10 squares 10 days? 09:57:59 <Viper1> This tends player to build short-way tracks, making game little less interest. 09:58:20 <hylje> i build really long way anyway 09:59:22 <Viper1> heh, that's little problem. You may build long way track, but you will negative profit on it, whatever you transport. 09:59:25 <JohnUK89> Viper, because in real life, the cost of say a train increases non-linearly with distance 09:59:51 <hylje> Viper1: not really, each train profits pretty well 09:59:52 <JohnUK89> Viper1, actually longer, well maintained lines tend to make the most profit 09:59:54 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:00:00 <hylje> Viper1: paying itself back in four-five trips 10:00:11 <Der_Dirk> do you have some tutorials for railway-signal-stations? 10:00:13 <Viper1> I'm working on railroad. 10:00:17 <Patrick`> Viper1: it only works out less if you go below a certain speed 10:00:26 <Der_Dirk> my trains tend to wind up confused 10:00:28 <Patrick`> I think trucks cost more to go far 10:00:50 <Patrick`> even with the first steam trains, you make money if you go a long distance 10:00:50 <Viper1> And I know, that long way moving cargo for real railroad is more profittable, than short way. 10:00:53 <JohnUK89> I never use trucks, not enough profit in them 10:00:58 <TrueLight> Commit 5946 (big one): 10:00:59 <TrueLight> -Add: merged the TGP branch to mainline. TGP adds: 10:00:59 <TrueLight> - New optional landscape generator (TerraGenesis Perlin) 10:00:59 <TrueLight> - Load heightmaps (either BMP or PNG) 10:00:59 <TrueLight> - Progress dialog while generating worlds (no longer a 'hanging' screen) 10:00:59 <TrueLight> - New dialogs for NewGame, Create Scenario and Play Heightmap 10:01:00 <Patrick`> who does ... 10:01:01 <TrueLight> - Easier to configure your landscape 10:01:01 <TrueLight> - More things to configure (tree-placer, ..) 10:01:06 <TrueLight> - Speedup of world generation 10:01:06 <TrueLight> - New console command 'restart': restart the map EXACTLY as it was when you 10:01:06 <TrueLight> first started it (needs a game made after or with this commit) 10:01:06 <TrueLight> - New console command 'getseed': get the seed of your map and share it with 10:01:08 <TrueLight> others (of course only works with generated maps) 10:01:08 <TrueLight> - Many new, world generation related, things 10:01:10 <TrueLight> - Many internal cleanups and rewrites 10:01:11 <TrueLight> Many tnx to those people who helped making this: 10:01:11 <TrueLight> Belugas, DaleStan, glx, KUDr, RichK67, Rubidium, and TrueLight (alfabetic) 10:01:11 <TrueLight> Many tnx to those who helped testing: 10:01:13 <TrueLight> Arnau, Bjarni, and tokai (alfabetic) 10:01:13 <TrueLight> And to all other people who helped testing and sending comments / bugs 10:01:15 <TrueLight> Stats: 673 lines changed, 3534 new lines, 79 new strings 10:01:15 <TrueLight> There! :) 10:01:19 <Patrick`> sweet jesus 10:01:26 <Viper1> But game tends plaer - "Short is better, than long!@ 10:01:41 <Patrick`> Viper1: not in my experience 10:01:51 <Patrick`> longer routes cost more to build but they make more per year 10:01:52 <JohnUK89> Viper1, not really, if you keep speed up long lines make more profit 10:01:59 <Patrick`> so always build as long as you can 10:02:27 <Viper1> No! 10:02:35 <Viper1> That's mistake. :) 10:02:35 <Rubidium> Tron: found a bug in the steep sloped feature in conjunction with the catenary draw code; http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/steep_slope_bug.sav <- no grfs, just upgrade the mentioned pieces of track to electrified railway 10:03:21 <JohnUK89> Viper1, how is it? It's the way the game is 10:03:44 <Viper1> I'm asking developers, if they are present here :) 10:04:20 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 10:04:24 <Viper1> I saw Sources and found, that there's multiplicator. 10:05:07 <Viper1> It changes from 255 to 31, making less income on long way route. 10:05:30 <JohnUK89> which source file was this in? 10:05:39 <Viper1> Economy.c 10:05:52 <Tron> Rubidium: hmhm, the elrail code claims there's more than one track on that tile ... fascinating 10:05:53 <Viper1> Wait a sec, say func name 10:06:39 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:06:45 <Viper1> int32 GetTransportedGoodsIncome(uint num_pieces, uint dist, byte transit_days, byte cargo_type) 10:06:57 <Viper1> There's calc income from cargo. 10:07:14 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:07:19 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:07:30 <Nigel> TrueLight, how big are you going to make commit 6000? 10:07:47 <TrueLight> Nigel: most likely it will be _really_ small :p 10:08:06 <Nigel> thats what i was thinking :P 10:08:12 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 10:08:17 <TrueLight> Hmm 10:08:22 <TrueLight> I need someone with a bit of TCL knowledge 10:08:39 <Viper1> So, transporting cargo on 20 squares with 20 days able to give income less, than transporting 10 squares with 10 dyas 10:08:51 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:09:10 <TrueLight> Viper1: for livestock that is correct :p 10:09:16 <Nigel> TrueLight, not me sorry 10:09:21 *** Spoco [~Spoco@dsl-083-102-070-129.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 10:09:25 <Viper1> That's correct for all cargo. 10:09:48 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 10:09:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 10:09:55 <Nigel> I love doing things just to annoy competitors 10:10:05 <Nigel> Road Reconstruction for example :P 10:10:28 <Viper1> But sad, game has not any Graph, where player can explain what limit of route for some kind of cargo. 10:11:09 <Viper1> And this fact remove "trans-country" route form game. 10:11:17 <Viper1> *form 10:11:21 <Viper1> *from 10:11:47 <Nigel> Viper1, there is a graph for payouts 10:12:04 <Viper1> It mistakes player 10:12:11 <Nigel> click on graph next to cup and 'cargo payment rates' 10:12:28 <Viper1> Yet antother say - It mistakes player 10:12:38 <Viper1> What see player? 10:13:00 <JohnUK89> No it doesn't, the X axis shows amount of days and the Y axis shows the amount paid for 20 units 10:13:21 <Viper1> Yet antoher say - It mistakes player 10:13:43 <TrueLight> Viper1: you said tha tline twice now, and I still can't make anything out of it :s 10:14:10 <Viper1> Just respond for little question - if you have twice length route, does you get twice income? 10:14:24 <Viper1> No, you will income less. 10:14:39 *** Zavior^ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:14:53 <JohnUK89> less PER SQUARE 10:15:09 <JohnUK89> Simply because it takes longer to get to its destination 10:15:43 <Viper1> But game has not this graph. 10:15:54 <JohnUK89> It does 10:16:02 <JohnUK89> It's called Cargo Payment Rates 10:16:17 <Viper1> Ok. 10:16:24 <Viper1> Let make a test. 10:17:09 <JohnUK89> I'll make a quick scenario ;-) 10:18:03 <Viper1> this graph say my - "10 units of wood, transported on 20 squares with 10 days give you 196 pounds" 10:18:41 <Viper1> Qustion - how I aquire with trasport "10 units of wood on 40 squares on 20 days"? 10:19:08 <JohnUK89> Get the rate for 20 units and half it 10:19:18 <JohnUK89> :P 10:19:24 <Viper1> How I will aquire with transpor "10 units of wwod on 80 squares on 40 days"? 10:19:44 <JohnUK89> It's simple maths 10:20:25 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 10:20:28 <Viper1> Where's you see "simple math"? 10:20:41 *** __bebe__ [ssssss@86.127.74.251] has joined #openttd 10:21:25 <Viper1> What should do a player to discover best route length? 10:21:29 <Der_Dirk> cya guys, I'm off 10:21:33 <JohnUK89> I see simple maths as you just get the rate for 10 units 20 squares and multiply/divide it depending on the amount of units and squares 10:21:41 <Viper1> Damn! 10:21:48 *** Der_Dirk [~Miranda@xdsl-84-44-151-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:42 <JohnUK89> The amount of time it takes is the main factor that reduces profit per square on larger lines 10:23:14 <Viper1> Okay, I agreed. 10:23:15 <JohnUK89> But the amount of squares is usually sufficient to outbalance it to produce a larger profit for the whole line against a smaller one 10:23:54 <Viper1> but why per square income dropped 8 times on long route? 10:24:06 <Viper1> Where ever you transport it on aircraft? 10:24:16 <JohnUK89> Viper1, I don't quite understand the question there 10:24:27 <Viper1> Look yet more time 10:24:47 <Viper1> let's look on graph "Cargo payment rate' 10:25:02 <Viper1> we see that "10 units of wood, transported on 20 squares with 10 days give you 196 pounds" 10:25:30 <JohnUK89> Not on my graph... 10:25:47 <JohnUK89> Says £118-ish here 10:25:56 <Patrick`> inflation? 10:26:07 <Viper1> not 10:26:20 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, probably...I just started a new game 10:26:36 <Patrick`> actually, I agree with john 10:26:41 <Viper1> player thinks, that if he has a speed, that allow him to 10:26:51 <Patrick`> Viper1: so what's the problem? 10:26:51 <Viper1> to transport "10 units of wood, transported on 20 squares with 10 days give you 196 pounds" 10:27:02 <Patrick`> the lower axis of that graph is time, not distance. 10:27:14 <Viper1> and he build track with 200 squares 10:27:48 <JohnUK89> Viper1, how long does it take said train to cover the 200 squares with wood onboard? 10:27:48 <Viper1> hi discovered, that hi gave not 1960 pounds. 10:28:15 <Patrick`> Viper1: longer routes are more profitable. 10:28:20 <Patrick`> if you disagree then you are wrong 10:28:30 <Patrick`> however, I'll help you understand why 10:28:38 <Patrick`> keep going 10:28:39 <JohnUK89> The reason it isn't linear is time 10:28:48 <Viper1> Yes, 10:28:51 <Viper1> of course. 10:28:57 <Viper1> there's limit 255 days 10:29:28 <Patrick`> after which time the payment has only hone down to 78 pounds per 20 squares 10:29:58 <Viper1> Patrick, but I'm rout goods on 200 squares 10:29:59 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-119-166.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:59 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-119-166.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:10 <JohnUK89> What are you suggesting? That the developers change the datatype of the time variable and eat up more memory? 10:30:13 <Patrick`> so that's 780 pounds per 200 squares 10:30:25 <Patrick`> I don't actually understand what your problem is 10:30:32 <Viper1> okay 10:30:47 <Viper1> give three expamples 10:30:50 <Patrick`> if you can go 200 squares to a sawmill or 400 squares to a sawmill, 400 squares makes more money 10:30:56 <JohnUK89> If a route is taking longer than 200 days to transport its goods there is a problem with the route 10:30:57 <Viper1> You wrong 10:31:01 <Patrick`> no, you wrong. 10:31:19 <Viper1> You'll give penalty for long routing 10:31:22 <Patrick`> each load might give less but you have twice as many loads 10:31:25 <Patrick`> no, you don't 10:31:33 <Patrick`> the ONLY penalty is time. 10:31:39 <Viper1> f = 255; 10:31:39 <Viper1> if (transit_days > _cargoc.transit_days_1[cargo]) { 10:31:39 <Viper1> transit_days -= _cargoc.transit_days_1[cargo]; 10:31:39 <Viper1> f -= transit_days; 10:31:39 <Viper1> if (transit_days > _cargoc.transit_days_2[cargo]) { 10:31:40 <Patrick`> and time is time for more wood to grow 10:31:41 <Viper1> transit_days -= _cargoc.transit_days_2[cargo]; 10:31:41 <Viper1> if (f < transit_days) 10:31:43 <Viper1> f = 0; 10:31:43 <Viper1> else 10:31:45 <Viper1> f -= transit_days; 10:31:45 <Viper1> } 10:31:47 <Viper1> } 10:31:47 <Viper1> if (f < 31) f = 31; 10:31:49 <Patrick`> please don't do that. 10:31:49 <Viper1> return BIGMULSS(dist * f * num_pieces, _cargo_payment_rates[cargo], 21); 10:31:49 <Viper1> } 10:31:52 <Viper1> There's code to calc income 10:31:58 <JohnUK89> Viper1, we have access to the source, thanks ;-) 10:32:19 <Viper1> As we see, income depends of "f" variable 10:32:41 <Patrick`> yes. 10:32:47 <Viper1> this may be 255 on short routs 10:32:51 <Patrick`> income also depends on the distance. 10:32:57 <Patrick`> if you double the distance, f goes down 10:33:07 <Viper1> yes! 10:33:08 <Patrick`> but (dist * f) goes up 10:33:13 <Patrick`> you fucking idiot. No offense. 10:33:18 <Viper1> no. 10:33:23 <Patrick`> yes, yes it does. 10:33:34 <Viper1> 255*10> 31*20 10:33:48 <Viper1> for example. 10:33:55 <Patrick`> yes but it does not take you a million days to go 10 tiles 10:34:05 <JohnUK89> Viper1, do me a favor and change the value of f, then recompile, see what the graph looks like then ;-) 10:34:06 <Patrick`> there is a certain speed at which what you say becomes true 10:34:18 <Patrick`> if you go so slow, then you are right. 10:34:25 <Viper1> But if I fast? 10:34:31 <Patrick`> then I am right 10:34:39 <Patrick`> that speed where it changes is about 40MPG 10:34:42 <Patrick`> *40MPH 10:34:46 <JohnUK89> If a route takes longer than 255 days (at which point f becomes 0) then there is a problem with your line 10:35:15 <Viper1> Yes, 10:35:28 <Viper1> that's prohibites me from long route building 10:35:33 <JohnUK89> No 10:35:38 <Patrick`> as long as your trains are not the cheapest type of train that exists, then you get more money from going long distances 10:35:44 <Patrick`> no matter how long or how much they cost. 10:35:47 <Viper1> Patrick 10:35:49 <JohnUK89> You being unable to plan fast routes prohibits you 10:36:04 <Viper1> look at "f" variable. 10:36:28 <Viper1> it give you, for example, 255 per square on short route 10:36:36 <Patrick`> yes. 10:36:48 <Viper1> but on long, it give you, in that example 31 per square 10:37:03 <Patrick`> if you go for that much time, you have gone a very big distance 10:37:13 <Patrick`> which multiplies up to a larger number than 255*10 10:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you did not understand the f variable correctly 10:37:27 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:37:38 <Viper1> f - prohibiting long range distance routing 10:37:40 <hylje> so if i transport stuff with (fast) trains across a 2048 tile map, f can drop to 0 10:37:42 * JohnUK89 reads where f is remapped to 31 if it is smaller than 31 10:37:48 <Viper1> Yes. 10:37:57 <Viper1> And you will not gave an income! 10:38:12 <Patrick`> no. 10:38:12 <hylje> but i recall doing that before and it did give income 10:38:22 <Patrick`> f can only ever drop to 31. 10:38:26 <Patrick`> and then you WILL get an income 10:38:38 <Patrick`> plus, because each train takes longer you need more of them, so more money 10:38:55 <Viper1> let two example trains 10:39:08 <Viper1> one of them route on 20 squares. 10:39:13 *** Ammler [~Ammler@208.156.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 10:39:20 <Viper1> with 10 days 10:39:46 <Viper1> second train goes on 40 squares with equal speed on 20 days. 10:40:03 <Viper1> 40 days 10:40:17 <Patrick`> no, 20 days 10:40:21 <Viper1> first train make two loading 10:40:40 <Viper1> second train - make one loading 10:40:50 <Patrick`> the first train is transporting twice as much cargo per year. 10:40:54 <Patrick`> it is making maybe 10% more money. 10:41:02 <Patrick`> what you do is put two trains on the second route 10:41:14 <Patrick`> and make 180% more money out of the same cargo 10:41:37 <Viper1> Patrick, you lol. :0 10:41:48 <Patrick`> do you even know about signals? 10:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> this formula is probably going to be considered for rebalancing if we get cargo packets 10:42:40 <Patrick`> anyway, 20 tiles in 10 days is very very slow 10:43:32 <Viper1> So my may question, "why developers prohibites players from long route building? 10:43:49 <Patrick`> Viper1: your question makes no sense. you have a flawed understanding of the game. 10:44:02 <Viper1> Dropping Per Square Income form 255 to 31. 10:44:06 <Patrick`> I have many long routes and they make £100,000 per train 10:44:10 <Patrick`> and i have 20 trains 10:44:13 <Patrick`> on each route 10:44:21 <Patrick`> that is from one 200 ton coal mine 10:44:30 <Viper1> Patrick, play at Hard level 10:44:51 <Patrick`> I play at custom where everything is as hard as it can possibly be. 10:44:54 <Patrick`> it is still too easy. 10:45:43 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80864.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:14 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:46:57 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 10:47:00 *** zcram [~zcram@88.196.155.96] has quit [Quit: And off he went.] 10:47:07 <JohnUK89> Right what did I miss? 10:47:08 <JohnUK89> Lol 10:48:31 <Viper1> My disaggree dropping Per Square Income multiplicator from 255 to 31 10:48:36 <Viper1> on long routes. 10:48:54 <Viper1> No more interessted there were. 10:48:59 <JohnUK89> I don't think you understand what f does 10:49:35 <Patrick`> Viper1: it is not that nobody else cares. 10:49:36 <JohnUK89> it is 255 minus the amount of DAYS the cargo has taken to get to its destination 10:49:47 <Patrick`> it is that nobody else believes you as opposed to what they see in reality. 10:50:09 <Patrick`> Viper1: yeah, 255 minus days! 10:50:13 <JohnUK89> The amount of squares is irrelevant when f is being calculated 10:50:37 <Patrick`> in your original example the train going twice as many tiles in 40 days makes more money 10:50:49 <Patrick`> I feel shame for not noticing that earlier 10:50:57 <Patrick`> and prolonging your ignorance 10:51:37 <Viper1> Jonh, player think - "Twice route, twice more money per one transit, twice less transits" 10:51:48 <Patrick`> yes. 10:52:05 <Viper1> but, players wrong. 10:52:06 <Patrick`> instead of making twice as much money, they only make 1.9 times as much money due to f 10:52:14 <Patrick`> OH NO EVERYBODY PANIC 10:52:36 <JohnUK89> You're still making more money overall on the longer route 10:53:02 <Patrick`> we have finally found why what you believe does not agree with reality. 10:53:06 <Patrick`> now will you accept it? 10:54:56 <Patrick`> your suspicious silence tells me you are trying to salvage some dignity ;) 10:55:33 <Viper1> I think, players need such graph - 10:55:42 <JohnUK89> Viper1, it already exists 10:55:52 <JohnUK89> The players just need to use some simple maths 10:56:13 <Patrick`> now if we were closed source this would not happen 10:56:40 <Viper1> "Per square income depends on trasit days" 10:57:10 <JohnUK89> Viper1, yes, the X axis on the cargo payment rates graph shows time in days 10:58:00 <Patrick`> I told you this right as the first thing I said ;) 10:59:16 *** Progman [~progman@p5091F7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:46 <JohnUK89> Now, any other blatantly wrong points you want to argue about Viper1 ? 10:59:57 <JohnUK89> I'm free all day ;-) 11:00:17 <Viper1> damn. 11:00:53 <Viper1> No one graph can give explaration income for certain user of certain route with certain speed and cargo. 11:01:12 <Patrick`> just trust that longer makes more money 11:01:33 <Patrick`> JohnUK89: well, I was wondering why the ottd developers chose to make the sun rise in the north . 11:02:01 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, well I'm not sure on that one...ask Darkvater ;-) 11:02:38 <Patrick`> or why truelight decided to make burgers come in packs of 6 and buns in packs of 8 11:02:44 <JohnUK89> Viper1, If you have the amount of days said cargo takes to get to its destination, the amount of units and the cargo type, as well as the amount of squares you can 11:02:49 <hylje> does yapf have a penalty if route goes through a station? 11:02:59 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, because TrueLight is strange ;-) 11:03:01 <hylje> (assuming said station is not the destination) 11:03:17 <Patrick`> is the XY thing still true? 11:03:27 <Patrick`> about delivery distance being calculated as delta_x plus delta_y 11:03:55 <Viper1> That's look like player's corp give discount for long routing. 11:04:33 <Viper1> but this discount enormous - 8.225 times 11:05:40 <JohnUK89> Viper1, explain... 11:05:50 <Patrick`> yes, that is how much more money you will get. 11:05:58 <Viper1> discount per square 11:06:08 <Viper1> Less, per square. 11:06:20 <JohnUK89> Hmm...I spy someone on MiniIN methinks 11:07:21 <Patrick`> yes, now would be the typical time when someone arguing a point about the code reveals that they are using unsupported patches which alter what they were shouting about 11:07:35 <Patrick`> "oh, I didn't think it was important " ... 11:07:39 <Viper1> f will 255 on very short routes dropping down 31 on long routes 11:08:04 <JohnUK89> Viper1, depending on time taken, remember that f is 255 minus number of days taken 11:08:14 <Viper1> Yes, of course. 11:08:17 <JohnUK89> with f's lowest value being 31 11:08:25 <Patrick`> any route that takes 200 days is very very very long 11:08:25 <Viper1> yes, of course. 11:08:32 <JohnUK89> And may I ask if you are on MiniIN? 11:08:34 <Patrick`> and goes a very long distance 11:08:35 <Viper1> yes, of course. 11:08:37 <Patrick`> perhaps 1000 tiles 11:08:43 <Viper1> Yes, it is. 11:08:53 <Patrick`> and that still makes more money 11:08:54 <Viper1> but why game get such enormous discount? 11:09:10 <Viper1> Per tile? 11:09:19 <Patrick`> because otherwise going long distances would make you a million instantly 11:09:37 <Viper1> But it's looks like real life. :) 11:09:46 <JohnUK89> Viper1, that's the idea 11:09:48 <Viper1> Two more long route - two more long pay 11:09:55 <JohnUK89> And no 11:10:01 <Patrick`> some cargo types, yes. 11:10:12 <Patrick`> coal and ore it does not matter how long they take 11:10:16 <Patrick`> but people and mail 11:10:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn6-0-0-cust801.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:10:59 <Patrick`> however, the code currently "discounts" all cargo types. 11:11:40 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, so what Viper1 says "discount" he means "reduction in per unit payout" 11:11:49 <JohnUK89> when* 11:12:02 <Patrick`> yes. 11:12:08 <Viper1> per unit per tile. 11:12:14 <Viper1> on long routes. 11:12:18 <Darkvater> morning 11:12:19 <Patrick`> I'm trying not to let ESL get in the way of demolishing his argument. 11:12:22 <Patrick`> no, it is per day. 11:12:27 <Darkvater> DaleStan: brilliant reply to inverted on the forums :D 11:12:28 <Viper1> with long days 11:12:30 <Patrick`> per tile will depend on how fast the train is. 11:12:35 <Darkvater> eya TrueLight ^^ 11:13:15 <TrueLight> hi Darkvater :) 11:13:26 <TrueLight> we managed to split it up a bit 11:13:30 <TrueLight> but more was almost impossible 11:13:35 <TrueLight> I hope you are happy with it :) 11:14:00 <Darkvater> yep, seen that. I won't complain about some other totally unrelated changes in the TGP code ;) 11:14:12 <TrueLight> I noticed one... 11:14:17 <TrueLight> I just can't remember it :p 11:14:51 <JohnUK89> Viper1, what do you think affects the amount of profit on a long line? 11:15:07 <Darkvater> *ehm* YEAR_ENGINE_AGING_STOPS = 2050, 11:15:09 <Darkvater> ;p 11:15:15 <TrueLight> Darkvater: ah, no, that is very much related 11:15:41 <Darkvater> const uint16 aging_date < I think this should be Date though, right Rubidium ? 11:15:55 <TrueLight> because the bug was that when you start a game in 2050, things went wrong :p 11:16:31 <TrueLight> Darkvater: nice spot, Rubidium is away, but you might be right yes 11:17:40 * JohnUK89 needs food, bbs 11:18:10 <Viper1> Jonh, players thinks, that two times long route give them two times income with two time less number of transits. 11:18:25 * JohnUK89 disrupts break 11:18:38 <Viper1> but because "f" variable - it is not correct 11:18:45 <TrueLight> Darkvater: for the CIA-alike bot I need something that converts the data to a format we like... just I dunno yet which format that should be :) 11:18:51 <JohnUK89> Viper1, wrong, because the longer route takes longer to get there 11:18:58 <Darkvater> TrueLight: svn log -rXXX? 11:19:11 <TrueLight> Darkvater: that format is very ugly yes :) 11:19:41 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:19:41 <Darkvater> why is it ugly? 11:19:47 <Darkvater> that is what CIA used until now 11:19:49 <JohnUK89> Viper1, when the amount of days double, f does not half, it only reduces by the same amount that the amount of days have eg if it gas gone from 10 to 20 days, f will go from 245 to 235 11:20:05 <Nigel> god, my competitor is dumb 11:20:15 <JohnUK89> has* 11:20:15 <TrueLight> Darkvater: did you ever entered that command? 11:20:19 <Patrick`> still this f'in problem? 11:20:27 <Patrick`> Nigel: this sounds like it has a followup .. 11:20:29 <Patrick`> go on 11:20:29 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, yes 11:20:30 <TrueLight> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11:20:30 <TrueLight> r5947 | truelight | 2006-08-19 12:05:44 +0200 (Sat, 19 Aug 2006) | 2 lines 11:20:30 <TrueLight> -Remove: remove TGP branch as it is now merged into mainline 11:20:31 <TrueLight> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11:20:31 <TrueLight> That isn't really pretty :) And CIA did NOT use it... 11:20:54 <Viper1> Jonh, f rush to 31 on long routes 11:21:09 <Rexxie> yay for TGP being merged btw ;) 11:21:10 <Nigel> Patrick`, I killed a couple of intersections and brought the land 11:21:18 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:21:35 <Nigel> there is however a really simple roading project that the competitor could do to resume their services 11:21:37 <Viper1> Every players knows, that income per tile affected with speed. 11:21:39 <JohnUK89> Viper1, the route would have to take more than 224 days to get there, implying a problem with the line 11:22:09 <Nigel> oh well, it's now a hotel :P 11:22:09 <Patrick`> Viper1: not directly 11:22:10 <Viper1> But no one know, that length of route affected a per-tile pay. 11:22:29 <JohnUK89> Viper1, the length doesn't, the amount of time does 11:22:41 <Patrick`> you seem to be struggling under the wrong idea that we have somehow decieved you 11:22:55 <Viper1> Two times longer route get two times more time 11:22:55 <Patrick`> like the man who mistrusts the goverment because he thinks they are hiding proof of aliens 11:23:13 <Viper1> with equal speed. 11:23:15 <JohnUK89> Viper1, yes, but as I explained, f doesn't half when time doubles 11:23:31 <Viper1> f may drop to 31. 11:23:39 <Viper1> from 255 11:23:47 <JohnUK89> yesh, but it has to take longer that 224 days to do so 11:23:50 <JohnUK89> -h 11:23:51 <Patrick`> f only drops to 31 if you have done something wrong. 11:24:03 <Patrick`> so shut up, you are making yourself look like a man who cannot design a straight line 11:24:45 <Viper1> But why game prevents from such long tracks? 11:24:50 <JohnUK89> It took me one look at that function to know that this is what happens, and I'm not even a programmer 11:25:00 <JohnUK89> Viper1, it DOESN'T! 11:25:11 <Viper1> Heh. 11:25:25 <Viper1> Stop talking, I can explain a problem. 11:25:28 <JohnUK89> By the looks of things you must be in the 21st century on your game...stick a monorail there! 11:25:29 <Viper1> *can't 11:25:56 <Patrick`> if you build a track that is 2000 tiles long and you put steam trains on it they might take a year to go along it 11:26:02 <Patrick`> so f might perhaps be 31 11:26:05 <JohnUK89> It is simply the amount of time taken for the route that decreases payout 11:26:10 <Patrick`> but, you still make money 11:26:41 <Patrick`> Viper1: you think that as soon as you re-explain it again we will suddenly understand and agree with you? 11:26:51 <Patrick`> we already know what you are trying to say and it is just wrong. 11:27:10 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:20 <JohnUK89> As said, I am not a programmer, and even I can understand what goes on in that function by looking at it 11:27:43 <Viper1> And I understand how it works. 11:27:49 *** Ammler [~Ammler@208.156.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:50 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:55 <JohnUK89> Viper1, obviously not 11:28:14 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:15 <JohnUK89> Otherwise you would have realised that you are talking utter tripe :) 11:29:08 <TrueLight> Commit r5948: -Fix: inversed check caused oringal land-generator to put industries on mountains (tnx Darkvater) 11:29:14 <Patrick`> perhaps you think that because you can read the C that you are somehow incapable of misinterpreting it? 11:29:22 <Patrick`> TrueLight: ooh, sounds like a fun revision to check out ... 11:29:31 <Patrick`> "yes, let's haul coal from peak to peak! 11:29:38 <TrueLight> :) 11:30:14 <JohnUK89> If only you could build a bridge between two mountains ;-) 11:30:29 <Patrick`> haha 11:30:35 <Patrick`> signals on bridges, come on! 11:30:39 <JohnUK89> :-D 11:30:44 <Viper1> Let's imagine two trains running "head-to-head" on parallel tracks with equal cargo, with equal speed. All equal, but one going for 10 tiles, second for 2000 tiles. First get 255 income per every tile, second 31 per tile. 11:31:10 <Patrick`> yes. 11:31:12 <Viper1> I'm disagree this fact :) 11:31:15 <Patrick`> the second one makes more money. 11:31:16 <Nigel> yeah, i want to make complex tunnels (i.e. junctions and signals etc), and signals on bridges 11:31:34 <Patrick`> a LOT more money. 11:31:50 <Patrick`> and also you can put more trains on the second track to deliver the same amount of cargo 11:31:51 <Viper1> But per tile - more less. 11:31:57 <Patrick`> per tile, less. 11:31:58 <JohnUK89> first gets 2550, second one 62000 11:32:05 <Nigel> ohhhh I am mean, i just caused one company to delete their bus stop 11:32:08 <Patrick`> but it is only less BECAUSE you are going further 11:32:22 <Patrick`> BECAUSE you are making more money overall. 11:32:33 <TrueLight> Viper1: we call that in the real world a starting fee 11:32:40 <TrueLight> so your calculation is just wrong :) 11:32:44 <TrueLight> you start off with, say 2500 11:32:49 <TrueLight> then you get the same amount per tile :p :p :p 11:32:57 <Viper1> no, 11:33:01 <TrueLight> (where that 2500 most likely is like 100000) 11:33:08 <Patrick`> and because the second one takes 20 times longer, you make 20 times more trains and make 486 times as much money. 11:33:11 <TrueLight> euh, one 0 less :p 11:33:19 <TrueLight> anyway, it is logic that per tile is less for longer routes 11:33:40 <Patrick`> 486 times as much money out of the same cargo - that is what makes long routes worth building. 11:34:04 <TrueLight> say the per tile stays the same, then small routes are of absolute no interest, or long routes make so much money, it aint funny 11:34:12 <TrueLight> we call that balancing a game :) 11:34:26 <Viper1> Yes, 11:34:28 <Viper1> yes. 11:34:30 <Viper1> yes, 11:34:36 <TrueLight> interesting way of talking 11:34:39 <Patrick`> try talkin' dirty and playing with my balls 11:34:43 <Patrick`> (ahem.) 11:34:47 <TrueLight> Patrick`: shut up 11:35:04 <Patrick`> god, I'm sorry, did I say that out loud 11:35:06 <Viper1> I'm disagree such kind of prohibiting long range 11:35:10 <Viper1> building. 11:35:18 <Viper1> :) 11:35:26 <Viper1> such kind of balancing :) 11:35:40 <Patrick`> it does NOT PROHIBIT LONG RANGE BUILDING 11:35:50 <Patrick`> IT MAKES IT ONLY TEN TIMES AS PROFITABLE INSTEAD OF A THOUSAND 11:35:52 <TrueLight> in fact it is better to hav elong routes 11:35:54 <JohnUK89> Viper1, it doesn't prohibit it, you just need trains that are fast enough to make it worthwhile, and not lose money due to operating costs 11:35:55 <TrueLight> but Patrick`, capslock 11:36:05 <Patrick`> I used shift for all that 11:36:11 <Patrick`> and I physically shouted it as I was typing 11:36:13 <TrueLight> Patrick`: then I should kick you :p 11:36:18 <Patrick`> I mean it 11:36:20 <TrueLight> keep it friendly 11:36:21 <TrueLight> and nice :) 11:36:24 <TrueLight> no need to shout :) 11:36:24 <Patrick`> I really did yell :) 11:36:27 <Nigel> hmmm 11:36:29 <Patrick`> I feel strongly about this issue. 11:36:30 <TrueLight> he means it well 11:36:35 <Viper1> TrueLight, game sayy not this factor. 11:36:36 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, he is only trying to explain a point :-P 11:36:45 <Viper1> to playes 11:37:01 <Viper1> that long way routing get less per tile pay. 11:37:03 <TrueLight> Viper1: you don't explain all details about the economy to the player, isn't fun :) 11:37:09 <Viper1> Yes. 11:37:10 <Patrick`> Viper1: per tile is a useless measurement 11:37:16 <Viper1> economy.c 11:37:20 <Viper1> all of it. 11:37:20 <Patrick`> Viper1: because it all adds up to more than this 11:37:45 <TrueLight> internally there happens a lot more then players are told about 11:37:49 <TrueLight> which is a good thing 11:37:58 <TrueLight> I once figured out how station rating worked :p 11:38:04 <TrueLight> But do you see that back ingame? No 11:38:05 <TrueLight> no need 11:38:10 <TrueLight> die-hards know it anyway 11:38:24 <JohnUK89> Viper1, before you go on about amount per tile, work it out as profit per day, and not per train either...if a route is 30 times a long, you can add 30 trains 11:38:24 <Patrick`> it is not deception if you do not rewrite the entire sourcecode as a manual explaining how the game works 11:38:30 <TrueLight> remember that this is a game, not a real-life representation 11:39:09 <TrueLight> ingame is suggested that the longer you take to move cargo, the less you get for it 11:39:11 <Viper1> Okay. 11:39:13 <TrueLight> longer tracks take longer 11:39:18 <Nigel> too true 11:39:21 <TrueLight> so in fact it does tell that 11:39:26 <TrueLight> just not in its full detail 11:39:40 <Viper1> Yes, agreed. 11:39:44 <TrueLight> I don't know if it is possible to make a 3D graph, just to explain the distance in the calculation :) 11:39:46 <Nigel> although, in a way the time in game is out of wack 11:39:54 <TrueLight> Nigel: only the time? 11:39:55 <Nigel> but hey, it's a game 11:39:57 <TrueLight> try distance :) 11:40:09 <Nigel> TrueLight, alright. s/time/distance/ 11:40:10 <Viper1> To discover, how to calc income, i must to looks at economy.c 11:40:12 <TrueLight> 1 tile is about 15km for cargo movement 11:40:15 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:40:26 <TrueLight> ever see a 15km long train? I mean one engine? 11:40:26 <Viper1> :) 11:40:30 <Nigel> TrueLight, thats the magic number 11:40:32 <TrueLight> Means the whole train is like 100 lm :( 11:40:34 <TrueLight> km 11:40:48 <TrueLight> ever see one of that size going 100 km/h in 2 days? :) 11:40:49 <Nigel> hmmm 11:40:50 <Viper1> I saw 6 km train ) 11:40:51 <Patrick`> Viper1: no, you must *understand* economy.c 11:41:00 <TrueLight> so please do not try to scale the game to real life :) 11:41:02 <TrueLight> you will fail ;) 11:41:03 <Patrick`> not get it wrong like you have done before 11:41:06 <TrueLight> on so many levels 11:41:11 <TrueLight> (houses are HUGE) 11:41:13 <Nigel> TrueLight, i know i know 11:41:16 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, are they made of polystyrene? They're way too light for 100km trains :-D 11:41:32 <Nigel> i'm just saying it's a bit out of wack esp for innercity transit 11:41:47 <TrueLight> or when was the last time you saw a normal house using the same area of ground as a flat? 11:41:58 <Darkvater> hmm 11:42:03 <Nigel> I live in a 15km by 15km house, you need train to get round 11:42:05 <TrueLight> or road the size of a house? 11:42:10 <Nigel> :P 11:42:21 <TrueLight> and I can keep on talking about sizes all day long :) 11:42:26 <Viper1> TrueLight, does exist plan to moving to more realistic logistic? 11:42:28 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, and when was a theatre the same size as a house :P 11:42:29 <Nigel> TrueLight, it's like simcity in that respect 11:42:51 <OwenS> TrueLight: Actually, I would like to see it so that we rescale things to make them more reasonable in the new graphics, being that buildings/etc are at least 2 tiles (So they may be 15km/sq but rails are more realistic; 7.5km/sq) 11:42:57 <TrueLight> Viper1: for the economy I have plans, but for the rest, not really 11:43:04 *** webfreakz [~Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 11:43:09 <webfreakz> hi 11:43:13 <TrueLight> hi webfreakz 11:43:19 <TrueLight> OwenS: it would kill the game I think 11:43:25 <OwenS> How? 11:43:42 <TrueLight> I dunno, if you want to make sizes real 11:43:42 <webfreakz> openttd_vs80.vcproj is broken 11:43:45 <TrueLight> you have to do it good 11:43:56 <TrueLight> meaning a train will take several days to go like 100 current tiles 11:43:56 <OwenS> I don't want it perfect; Just less stupid 11:44:09 <TrueLight> did you ever really notice the stupidity before I told you about it? :) 11:44:13 <TrueLight> webfreakz: please correct and send us a patch 11:44:13 <OwenS> Yep 11:44:21 <JohnUK89> Right, I'll go get food, back in a bit :)_ 11:45:00 <Nigel> how big is the SVN dump atm? 11:45:05 <webfreakz> truelight: i already did check what's wrong but couldn't find anything. i will look for the changesets to see what's wrong 11:45:07 <TrueLight> which 'dump' 11:45:15 <webfreakz> whole SVN it think? 11:45:16 <TrueLight> webfreakz: most likely the TGP merge 11:45:17 <Nigel> the whole thing? 11:45:25 <TrueLight> Nigel: define 'whole thing' 11:45:32 <webfreakz> truelight: i already guessed that caused the problem :) 11:45:36 <OwenS> After invoking "svnadmin dump"? 11:45:42 <Nigel> TrueLight, as in from the base that svn looks at 11:45:44 <TrueLight> why would anyone care? 11:45:56 <Nigel> OwenS, i mean as an export from the user pov 11:46:00 <Patrick`> compiling now, I'll let you know if anything breaks 11:46:02 <OwenS> Oh 11:46:11 <TrueLight> webfreakz: 11:46:14 <TrueLight> > 11:46:14 <TrueLight> + <File 11:46:14 <TrueLight> + RelativePath=".\bmp.h" 11:46:14 <TrueLight> + > 11:46:14 <TrueLight> </File> 11:46:15 <OwenS> Thats about 10mb of source, 20mb including SVN directories (Locally created) 11:46:23 <TrueLight> It is missing a </File> before bmp.h 11:46:48 <Nigel> OwenS, not too bad then 11:47:12 <TrueLight> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/patches/broken_proj.patch 11:47:15 <webfreakz> truelight: thanks! 11:47:15 <TrueLight> webfreakz: let me know if that works 11:47:31 <michi_cc> TrueLight: it does 11:47:41 <Nigel> openttd.exe seems to hang after exit on Vista for no reason 11:47:44 <TrueLight> michi_cc: did you try that exact patch? 11:48:04 <michi_cc> TrueLight: actually, it doesn't, there's another unmatched tag 11:48:09 <Nigel> also, sound dies if you leave OpenTTD open when you lock then unlock your computer 11:48:19 <TrueLight> michi_cc: so don't say it does if it doesn't :) 11:48:37 <TrueLight> bmp.c 11:49:10 <TrueLight> webfreakz: try http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/patches/broken_proj.patch 11:49:13 <TrueLight> (reload) 11:49:25 *** Zavior^ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:49:40 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:49:41 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 11:50:04 <Patrick`> man, I love terragenesis 11:50:06 <webfreakz> truelight: it's working again :) 11:50:13 <TrueLight> that exact patch? 11:50:14 <Patrick`> means hills and mountains don't take a billion terraforms to work 11:50:18 <webfreakz> yup 11:51:08 <Patrick`> hmm 11:51:09 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 11:51:30 <Patrick`> how hard would it be to add a "very low" for town and industry density to the map generator interface? 11:51:55 <michi_cc> TrueLight: yes it does. somehow VS managed to erase that line again :( stupid ms 11:52:37 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.1] has joined #openttd 11:53:30 <TrueLight> commited 11:53:53 <Patrick`> just like sea_lakes can be set to "very low" 11:55:04 <TrueLight> Patrick`: would be a 1, 2, 3 job 11:55:14 <Sacro> :o TGP - Merged - is it true? 11:55:25 <Patrick`> and would it get committed if I wrote it? 11:56:02 <webfreakz> sacro: yup 11:56:23 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:24 <Patrick`> hmm, it seems that I would need to add a new string 11:56:58 <guru3> would you be worried when php is taking up 50% of memory? 11:57:16 <TrueLight> guru3: killall php :p 11:57:26 <guru3> it's just one instance 11:57:27 <TrueLight> Patrick`: the problem here in fact is difficulty settings 11:57:29 <guru3> parsing a log file for me >< 11:57:39 <guru3> it's down to 38% 11:57:55 <Patrick`> well, I just trivially added it to a dropdown, and ... uuh ... 11:58:13 <Patrick`> it just bumped everything up one and made "high" consume an inordinate amount of time 11:58:24 <Patrick`> like, several minutes on an amd64 3000+ 11:58:55 <Patrick`> I give up 11:59:39 <Viper1> TrueLight, has plan to migrate to other programming languages, other than C? 11:59:53 <webfreakz> Viper1: why? 12:00:04 <Viper1> Just interesting. 12:00:18 <Patrick`> _opt_newgame.diff.number_industries = e->dropdown.index <-- a-hah 12:00:19 <webfreakz> imagine it's your project 12:00:38 <webfreakz> you're the 'leader' of the project 12:01:17 <webfreakz> would you say one day, when everything works fine in C, on a large scale of platforms. "Guys, let's rewrite the code from C into JAVA!" 12:01:39 <Viper1> I'm indifferent to any lang. :) 12:01:55 <TrueLight> C is the only correct language for such a project :) 12:02:00 <Patrick`> aha, _numof_industry_table 12:02:02 <Viper1> And I am not arguing to switch to any other lang. 12:02:05 <Viper1> :) 12:02:16 <TrueLight> Patrick`: I knew you would figure it out :) 12:02:37 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Breakfast!] 12:03:05 <Patrick`> TrueLight: I'm not *that* good 12:03:15 <guru3> php's using 86% of memory 12:03:19 <Patrick`> can you explain the entries in the table to me so I can also add a comment about what it does? 12:03:20 <guru3> should i be worried yet? 12:03:24 <Patrick`> or tell me where the comment is ;) 12:03:36 <TrueLight> guru3: shut up : 12:03:37 <TrueLight> p 12:03:41 <Patrick`> I see rows of numbers increasing linearly and I guessed backwards to what "very low" should be 12:03:46 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:03:49 <guru3> well that's 88% of 2GB 12:03:49 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:03:50 <Patrick`> guessing they are parameters to the map generator or somesuch 12:03:51 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 12:03:58 <TrueLight> Patrick`: they are the 'amount' that will be generated I believe 12:04:06 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a2e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:04:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 12:04:07 <Patrick`> for different industry types? 12:04:10 <TrueLight> yup 12:04:14 <Patrick`> aha 12:04:20 <Patrick`> so I should just set them all to 1 12:04:23 <TrueLight> and it scales with the map-size and stuff 12:04:37 <Patrick`> yeah, haha 12:04:56 <TrueLight> bah, that function has some weird logic 12:05:03 <Patrick`> that'd explain what went wrong when I just added another menu entry - it read row 4 (high) from assigned but irrelevant memory 12:05:03 <TrueLight> if it would just return if number_industries was 0 12:05:07 <TrueLight> would be much more logic :p 12:05:15 <TrueLight> :) 12:05:21 <Patrick`> which would average to 127 12:05:25 <Patrick`> slightly higher than "ten" 12:05:27 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:05:43 <Patrick`> now to make sure nothing else got screwed up 12:05:45 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 12:07:43 <Viper1> TrueLight, if somebody want to help coding, whom he should ask, what to do? 12:08:05 <TrueLight> Viper1: mostly the best thing is just to do something that somebody thinks is needed to be done 12:08:06 <TrueLight> something small 12:08:08 <TrueLight> something easy 12:08:16 <Patrick`> only not what I just did because I just did it. 12:08:21 <TrueLight> if that somebody is totally out of ideas, he can always ask me, I have tons of things :p 12:09:01 <Patrick`> cool, it responds to ctrl-c in the console correctly 12:09:34 * Sacro wonders if you could port OpenTTD to QT 4.x 12:09:37 <Viper1> ok. 12:10:13 <Sacro> Viper1: #newsignals is always after coders who are willing to dig around and fiddle with the code 12:10:15 <JohnUK89> Back :) 12:10:19 <Sacro> oh noes... 12:10:23 <Patrick`> aha, the 12 types are the general types of the industry 12:10:30 <JohnUK89> Oh noes...not Sacro 12:10:30 <Patrick`> whatever they ae 12:11:09 *** Zavior^ [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:39 <TrueLight> Sacro: go for it :) 12:11:51 <TrueLight> Sacro: what is #newsignals? :) 12:11:55 <Patrick`> is there a header that says what those types are? 12:12:05 <Patrick`> I'm guessing the first one is banks because it's always zero initially 12:12:13 <TrueLight> Patrick`: industry.h 12:12:21 <Sacro> TrueLight: its a channel for people interested in a new signalling system for OpenTTD, but at the moment, KUDr seems to be gone 12:12:30 <Patrick`> TrueLight: ta 12:12:32 <TrueLight> hmm, that is not the list you was hoping for :) 12:12:45 <Patrick`> all I need is &wheretolook 12:13:45 <JohnUK89> I need to learn C...lol 12:14:50 <Sacro> i need to learn YAPF 12:15:21 <TrueLight> Patrick`: table/build_industry.h 12:15:24 <TrueLight> totally unreadable 12:15:27 <TrueLight> but that is where they are listed 12:15:31 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]] 12:15:33 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM 12:15:34 <Patrick`> well, I'll see about that 12:16:03 <TrueLight> kind of messy :p 12:16:05 <Patrick`> just after I make sure I've not cocked up anywhere else by adding an extra row to number_industries 12:16:22 <TrueLight> just make sure it still follows logic 12:16:22 <Patrick`> it's an int and it's only ever used to index that table so I guess not ... 12:16:30 <TrueLight> so no: low, medium, high, very low :p 12:16:40 <Patrick`> nope, I'm not that silly 12:16:55 *** Guest56 [Gono@N890P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:17:05 <Patrick`> is there a reason why the dropdowns for low/medium/high use different types of strings for each different thing? 12:17:21 *** netgert [Gert@213-35-175-233-dsl.prn.estpak.ee] has quit [] 12:17:41 <TrueLight> yeah, translators on one side, and the possibility the naming changes for one 12:17:47 <TrueLight> you don't want that the others change immediatly 12:18:30 <Patrick`> so I should add a new string 12:18:52 <Patrick`> and make it default to the other one 12:19:12 <TrueLight> also make sure to change the patch settings so it can store the next max value on the disk 12:19:21 <TrueLight> also make sure the difficulty settings can take that value 12:19:41 <Patrick`> I see what you mean about build_industry 12:19:56 <Patrick`> I give up, they can just all stay at 1 12:20:01 <TrueLight> hehe :p 12:20:07 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gono@N728P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:04 <TrueLight> bah, I made DorpsGek spam :( I did something really wrong :p Hahahaha :) 12:21:38 <webfreakz> dorpsgek? 12:21:43 * webfreakz slaps dorpsgek 12:21:56 <JohnUK89> DorpsGek is a bot 12:22:03 <JohnUK89> !seen webfreakz 12:22:04 <DorpsGek> JohnUK89, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel. 12:22:48 <TrueLight> foreach in TCL splits on spaces too 12:22:49 <TrueLight> bah : 12:22:49 <TrueLight> p 12:23:45 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a164.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:15 *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII 12:26:54 <TrueLight> !openttd log 12:26:56 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: r5950 | truelight | 2006-08-19 12:01:04 +0000 (Sat, 19 Aug 2006) | 2 lines 12:26:58 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: -Fix: don't show Vital Windows EVER if you go to GM_MENU (tnx Darkvater) 12:27:03 <TrueLight> Ugly :p But at least it works :) 12:27:16 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, it's !logs :) 12:27:31 <TrueLight> !openttd log 5940 12:27:31 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: r5940 | truelight | 2006-08-18 22:40:08 +0000 (Fri, 18 Aug 2006) | 2 lines 12:27:33 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: [TGP] -Cleanup: changed 3 defines into 1 static inline (tnx Darkvater) 12:27:37 <JohnUK89> Oh 12:27:38 <JohnUK89> SVN :P 12:27:54 <webfreakz> !openttd log 5949 12:27:55 <DorpsGek> webfreakz: r5949 | truelight | 2006-08-19 11:50:34 +0000 (Sat, 19 Aug 2006) | 2 lines 12:27:57 <DorpsGek> webfreakz: -Fix: vs80 project file was broken (tnx webfreakz) 12:28:02 <webfreakz> w00t 12:28:13 * JohnUK89 slaps webfreakz 12:28:14 <JohnUK89> :P 12:28:31 <OwenS> !openttd log 5950 12:28:32 * webfreakz searches for his baseball bat... 12:28:36 <webfreakz> ^^ 12:28:37 <TrueLight> I disabled it 12:28:41 <OwenS> :( 12:28:47 <webfreakz> grmbl 12:28:49 * JohnUK89 gets his shotgun out 12:28:53 <OwenS> I was gonna have it annoy the other Owen :P 12:29:34 <TrueLight> !stats 12:29:35 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/stats/openttd.html 12:29:53 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:12 <TrueLight> okay, it is working again, but it no longer shows more than 6 lines :p 12:31:47 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80864.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:38 <TrueLight> svn: subversion/libsvn_subr/path.c:114: svn_path_join: Assertion `is_canonical (base, blen)' failed. 12:33:38 <TrueLight> I have SVN asserting :) :) 12:35:00 <TrueLight> svn status svn://bla 12:35:00 <TrueLight> hehe 12:37:00 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:03 <TrueLight> haha 12:37:21 <JohnUK89> lmao 12:38:48 <izhirahider> svn status shows me ? core.12447 and ? core.11739 :) 12:38:55 <TrueLight> hahaha :) 12:39:06 <TrueLight> hmm.. I did something wrong, and I dunno what :p 12:39:06 <TrueLight> lol 12:40:34 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:40:46 <TrueLight> argh, stupid TCL 12:40:48 <TrueLight> bad error reporting 12:40:49 <TrueLight> really bad 12:41:13 <izhirahider> whoha, a whole new truckload of stuff to translate... 12:44:33 <Kjetil> yeah. TCL sucks.. so don't use it 12:44:57 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 12:45:08 <TrueLight> !openttd svn 12:45:25 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: SVN: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ; WebSVN: http://svn.openttd.org/ 12:45:56 <Patrick`> ok, how is the string in the difficulty window determined? 12:45:56 <TrueLight> TCL also parses things in comments.... 12:46:05 *** gotiniens [~gotiniens@cc68413-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 12:46:09 <Patrick`> I can save/load it all correctly but it's displaying them off-by-one 12:46:26 <Patrick`> and I (grep) can't find where those strings are referenced from 12:46:54 <Patrick`> it displays "none, low, medium, high, small squiggly glyph for missing setting" but sets it correctly 12:47:02 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:57 *** Mucht|zZz is now known as Mucht 12:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... who made the diagonal crossing patch? 12:50:39 <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause: me 12:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/what_is_wrong_with_this_picture.png 12:51:32 <TrueLight> you tell us 12:51:37 <Patrick`> no collision detection on diagonals? 12:51:52 <TrueLight> now that is a small truck 12:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll tell: it's driving on right (correct), but the gates are on the left now... 12:52:56 <Nigel> there is no signals on the track coming from depot? 12:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it used to be correct before the patch 12:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not 100% sure that caused it... 12:53:29 <Nigel> wait, is that barrier arms? 12:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:53:39 <Maedhros> hmm. i didn't think the patch changed the drawing of the straight crossings 12:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be some weird interaction 12:53:54 <Maedhros> are you sure the truck grf hasn't changed the crossing graphics? 12:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it used to be correct... 12:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> what exact revision was the patch? 12:54:31 <Maedhros> 5911 12:57:12 <Patrick`> gah 12:57:20 <Patrick`> help help I'm being repressed 12:57:33 <__bebe__> i whant to send this message to the openttd devel team: http://www.ngline.ru/fun/1000000.swf 12:57:52 <webfreakz> 'whant' ?? 12:58:16 <Patrick`> wow, that's annoying 12:58:22 <Patrick`> but sweet 12:58:25 <__bebe__> :P 12:58:25 <webfreakz> yeah 12:58:28 <webfreakz> :) 12:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> grr... how do i go back to a specific revision on the command line? 12:58:54 <Patrick`> svn up -r 12:59:01 <Patrick`> even if "up" is going down 12:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not change any files 12:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried that 12:59:20 <Patrick`> svn revert ? 12:59:35 <Nigel> Eddi|zuHause, do a svn export -r in another folder 12:59:37 <Nigel> :P 12:59:38 <Patrick`> svn up ought to go to any specificed revision 12:59:54 <Patrick`> so yeah, anyone any ideas about my difficulty settings difficulty? 12:59:57 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> revert is only for local changes 13:00:31 <Patrick`> make sure svn up -r <X> doesn't work 13:00:38 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 13:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> johannes@johannes-i:~/filme/spiele/OpenTTD2> svn up -r5910 13:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Revision 5910. 13:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> johannes@johannes-i:~/filme/spiele/OpenTTD2> make 13:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> make: Für das Ziel »all« ist nichts zu tun. 13:01:55 <TrueLight> !openttd files 5946 13:01:56 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: trunk/functions.h trunk/video/cocoa_v.m trunk/video/sdl_v.c trunk/video/win32_v.c trunk/video/dedicated_v.c trunk/lang/english.txt trunk/heightmap.c trunk/heightmap.h trunk/macros.h trunk/tgp.c trunk/tgp.h trunk/misc.c trunk/os2.c trunk/town_cmd.c trunk/openttd_vs80.vcproj trunk/main_gui.c trunk/Makefile trunk/openttd.vcproj trunk/settings.c trunk/fios.c trunk/fios.h trunk/os/linux/openttd.spec trunk/os/macosx/splash.c trunk/console_cmds.c trun 13:01:59 <TrueLight> Ugly? :p 13:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, very ;) 13:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> !openttd files 5911 13:02:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: trunk/rail.h 13:02:52 *** WolfAngel [~wolfangel@83.72.164.148.ip.tele2adsl.dk] has quit [Quit: YES I'M SURE!] 13:03:10 <Patrick`> aha 13:03:16 <Patrick`> are enums guaranteed to be sequential? 13:03:25 <TrueLight> Patrick`: normally, yes :p 13:03:32 <Patrick`> so we rely on it .. 13:03:43 <Patrick`> it's taking the enum of the min setting, then incrementing that to get the rest 13:03:57 <Patrick`> so I do need to add a new string since no other sequence goes "off, v.low, low ..." 13:04:28 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 13:04:34 <MeusH> hi 13:04:36 <MeusH> omg 13:04:44 <MeusH> I didn't have internet since yesterday evening 13:04:47 <JohnUK89> MeusH, ello 13:04:55 <MeusH> I thought I would die :S 13:05:10 <Bjarni> !seen lolman 13:05:10 <DorpsGek> Bjarni, I found 8 matches to your query. These are the 5 most recent ones: JohnUK89, lolman, john_, lolman_, back. JohnUK89 (~john@149.254.200.215) was last seen joining #openttd 2 hours 18 minutes ago (19.08. 10:46). JohnUK89 is still there. 13:05:22 <JohnUK89> ARGH! 13:05:30 <Bjarni> once again lolman is flying false colours 13:05:50 <JohnUK89> Bjarni: not false colours, I'm identified to nickserv :) 13:05:56 <Patrick`> gah, makefile 13:06:02 <Patrick`> how do I rebuild a particular language? 13:06:02 <MeusH> a nickserv on OFTC? 13:06:09 <MeusH> Patrick`, what do you mean? 13:06:10 <JohnUK89> MeusH, yep 13:06:15 <Patrick`> or all of them 13:06:21 <Patrick`> I get lang out of date 13:06:36 <Patrick`> like, regenerate the .lng files 13:06:40 <Bjarni> Patrick`: well, if you want to remake one and only one lng file, then do it manually 13:06:53 <Patrick`> and all of them> 13:06:57 <Patrick`> I'm not fussed about speed 13:07:09 <Patrick`> I just don't wantto do a make clean each time and throw away my binary 13:07:18 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a234.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has joined #openttd 13:07:24 <Bjarni> no need to use make clean 13:07:48 <Bjarni> make will update the lng files and if nothing else changed, the binary will still be there and is not recompiled 13:08:30 <Bjarni> if you added/removed strings in english.txt, a recompile is needed to make the lng files compatible with the binary 13:08:49 <Bjarni> they need to agree on the number and types of strings 13:08:57 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AFK 13:09:10 <Patrick`> ok, last question ... is there a facility for cloning one string to another in all lang files? 13:09:15 <Patrick`> or will I need to whip up a script for it 13:09:32 <Patrick`> (since they are the same string, just gui needing to add mutter mutter) 13:09:42 <Bjarni> easiest solution: if they are identically in all languages, then don't care about it 13:09:59 <Patrick`> I have to, since settings_gui apparently displays them in sequence 13:10:03 <Patrick`> and this is a new sequence 13:10:21 <Bjarni> it will use the English string if it is missing in a translation 13:10:27 <Patrick`> oh, right 13:10:35 <Bjarni> and you will not overburden the translators with a string like that ;) 13:11:03 <Patrick`> ok, looks like my "very low" industry density patch is done :D 13:11:06 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:19 <Bjarni> we need to use the English string in order not to render a lng file unusable due to a single missing string 13:12:05 <Patrick`> uuh ... one last thing 13:12:29 <Patrick`> is strings.h auto-generated from english.txt ? 13:12:36 <Bjarni> yes 13:12:45 <Patrick`> awesome 13:12:58 <Bjarni> that's why you need to use the makefile to ensure that strings.h is up to date 13:13:37 * Bjarni notes that Patrick` got an answer to the last thing, so he is out of questions. No need to answer anything from him anymore 13:13:43 * Bjarni sets Patrick` to ignore 13:13:46 <Patrick`> har har. 13:13:52 <Bjarni> :P 13:14:31 <Bjarni> well, I read what you wrote. How can that be wrong? 13:14:34 <Bjarni> :) 13:14:40 <Patrick`> ok, now what's the best thing to do with this patch ... forum, flyspray, here, all 3? 13:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes ;) 13:15:17 <Bjarni> yeah, totally 13:15:20 <Bjarni> what Eddi|zuHause said 13:15:28 <Patrick`> later though, it's gone wrong 13:16:19 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:18:14 <Patrick`> there's a minor graphical overlap that will need the entire world generation panel widget layout to change slightly) 13:19:04 <Bjarni> hehe 13:19:10 <Bjarni> good luck 13:19:36 <Bjarni> that window is a hack because it got 34 widgets in a max 32 widget/window system 13:19:45 <Bjarni> it will not be easy to modify it 13:19:50 <Darkvater> Bjarni: there is some bug with autoreplace still, I sent you a link 13:19:53 <Patrick`> I see, it's not movable 13:19:53 <Darkvater> did you look at it? 13:20:01 <Bjarni> hmm 13:20:04 <TrueLight> Bjarni: he ment resize 13:20:05 <Bjarni> what bugs? 13:20:12 <TrueLight> not _that_ hard :p 13:20:14 <Darkvater> .. 13:20:17 <Patrick`> all I have to do is jimmy left all of the aligned widgets after the type: 13:20:33 <Bjarni> ahh, like that 13:20:37 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:20:44 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=26869 13:21:00 <Darkvater> I also had some lookie at it and didn't work for me either at times 13:21:02 <Darkvater> donnu why 13:21:31 <Bjarni> I need info on when it fails, because it works for me each time 13:24:28 <Patrick`> my god that's awful 13:24:32 <Patrick`> such a hack 13:24:45 *** Progman [~progman@p5091F7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:21 <Patrick`> ok, it doesn't matter that much if half a letter overlaps a dropdown selection chooser thing 13:27:12 <Patrick`> http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/verylow.diff 13:27:16 <Patrick`> also on fspra 13:28:51 <TrueLight> nice work :) 13:29:38 <TrueLight> now a very high :p Haha :) 13:29:40 <TrueLight> kidding :) 13:30:36 <Patrick`> it won't break backwards compat but your saved density will shimmy down by one 13:30:47 <Patrick`> nothing I can do about that 13:31:27 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 13:31:40 <TrueLight> bah, TCL sucks 13:32:49 <Patrick`> tcl the scripting lang? 13:32:50 <Patrick`> Pfft 13:32:51 <TrueLight> yes 13:32:54 <Patrick`> python 4 eva! 13:33:28 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.1] has joined #openttd 13:33:58 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7E51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:26 <JohnUK89> grrrr why does Ubuntu get updates so often? I only did a 150 meg update 4 days back...and theres another 200meg waiting for me now :S 13:37:37 <Patrick`> yeah, curse them for making you secure 13:38:26 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, it's not that, it's just that I'm on GPRS for the next 2 or 3 weeks 13:38:43 <JohnUK89> Soon as I move I'll be on DSL, so it won't be an issue 13:39:39 <JohnUK89> It's rather annoying when the connection drops half way through an update 13:42:13 <Patrick`> yeah, that pesky "resume" function 13:42:28 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:51 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has joined #openttd 13:43:14 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, well I have to reconnect, then resume it...and it's especially annoying when it's half way through the night when it drops 13:43:30 <Patrick`> aye, I guess so 13:43:33 <Patrick`> no autoresume 13:44:22 <JohnUK89> Well it'll be solved in a few weeks 13:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> get a proxy that cloaks such connection losses 13:45:26 <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause, and how do you propose I use such proxy when I am already going through one 13:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> get one proxy to use the other? 13:46:28 <JohnUK89> The proxy is T-Mobile 13:46:30 <JohnUK89> Lol 13:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> GPRS doesn't use PPP? 13:47:45 <JohnUK89> Dunno, actually 13:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> usually, with Modem/ISDN you establish a PPP connection to your provider 13:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> which then redirects your acesses to the internet, usually not via a proxy 13:50:18 <JohnUK89> Well this connects to T-Mobiles proxy, which controls the traffic 13:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine why GPRS connections should be different 13:50:39 <Patrick`> proxy to a shellhost 13:50:48 <Patrick`> GPRS is supposed to not drop at all 13:51:07 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, well the fact it does is my phone's fault 13:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well... i could imagine that T-Mobile does 24h disconnects, like T-Online 13:52:26 <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause, I've never had it last beyond 14 hours 13:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> which reminds me... how do i set up a cron job doing "ifdown dsl0 && ifup dsl0" 13:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 13:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> at, say... 7AM 13:55:00 <JohnUK89> That's an idea...can someone help me with something? I want it so every few minutes it checks whether my connection is alive or not...and if it isn't it restarts it 13:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ping? 13:55:18 <Patrick`> ping google. 13:55:40 <JohnUK89> But the restarting the connection if it's dead? 13:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> see my line above... adjust for your interface 13:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that is, if you have set up your OS properly ;) 13:56:39 <Patrick`> Eddi|zuHause: the cron job? 13:56:47 <Patrick`> just run crontab -e as the user you want to do it as 13:57:35 <JohnUK89> Hmm...it would be easier for me to just tell it restart the connection every 5 minutes...if it's already there it won't bother 13:58:45 <JohnUK89> Well...I'll know if it does bother in 2 minutes 13:59:35 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:52 <TrueLight> *oops* 14:00:00 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 14:00:06 <JohnUK89> YES! :P 14:00:15 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a234.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:01:23 <JohnUK89> Now...to tell it to restart an update... 14:01:52 <JohnUK89> Damn...needs a password :S 14:02:04 <JohnUK89> well...my pass 14:02:20 <JohnUK89> but I can't have it automatically put in... 14:02:24 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 0 7 * * * ifdown dsl0 && ifup dsl0 <- would that line do what i want? 14:05:01 <Patrick`> that would do it at 7am 14:05:03 <Patrick`> i think 14:05:06 <Patrick`> I'm a little rusty 14:05:32 <Patrick`> if you wanted every n minutes do */n * * * * command 14:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> we'll see tomorrow :) 14:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well... i just want the 24h disconnect on my terms, and not on T-Offlines terms :) 14:06:30 <Patrick`> #define TWO 0?5:2 14:06:33 <Patrick`> int two = TWO 14:06:37 <Patrick`> int five = TWO + TWO 14:06:43 <Patrick`> :D:D:D 14:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "old" :p 14:07:02 *** netgert [Gert@217-159-186-54-dsl.prn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 14:07:05 <Patrick`> it's new to me 14:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> someone mentioned it yesterday 14:08:18 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:22 <webfreakz> !seen rubidium 14:08:23 <DorpsGek> webfreakz, if you can't see rubidium here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^ 14:08:32 <webfreakz> grmbl 14:08:40 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:07 * JohnUK89 gets the shotgun out 14:10:15 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 14:10:15 <TrueLight> !logs 14:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueLight: can you teach the bot to tell "<nick> is here, but was idle <time>."? 14:10:54 <TrueLight> Eddi|zuHause: possible, but not today 14:11:17 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:20 <TrueLight> bah 14:11:34 <TrueLight> stupid 14:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what does "DorpsGek" mean anyway? 14:11:50 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 14:12:28 <TrueLight> TownIdiot 14:12:29 <TrueLight> TownFool 14:12:32 <TrueLight> something like that 14:12:37 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... "Dorftrottel" ;) 14:13:25 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.1] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer] 14:13:33 <Patrick`> Eddi|zuHause: that's what a whois is for 14:13:52 <TrueLight> indeed 14:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i know whois does that ;) 14:14:07 <SpComb> TrueLight: I'm here now 14:14:26 <MeusH> !seen rubidiu* 14:14:26 <DorpsGek> MeusH, I found 2 matches to your query: Rubidium, Rubidium_. Rubidium (~rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl) was last seen rejoining #openttd.tgp from a netsplit 2 days 23 hours 6 minutes ago (16.08. 15:07) Rubidium is still there. 14:14:29 *** Ammler [~Ammler@208.156.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 14:14:30 <MeusH> <Eddi|zuHause> TrueLight: can you teach the bot to tell "<nick> is here, but was idle <time>."? 14:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but the message it tells now gets annoing after the 400th time 14:14:31 <MeusH> see? 14:15:03 <TrueLight> what is there to see... 14:15:06 <TrueLight> still no idle time 14:15:33 *** Ammler [~Ammler@208.156.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:16 *** jonty-comp [~Jonty@88-107-59-161.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:17:30 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 14:17:30 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: truelight * r5950 /trunk/genworld.c: 14:17:32 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: -Fix: don't show Vital Windows EVER if you go to GM_MENU (tnx Darkvater) 14:17:36 <TrueLight> :) 14:17:50 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 14:17:52 <TrueLight> Even better 14:17:52 <DorpsGek> truelight * r5950 /trunk/genworld.c: 14:17:54 <DorpsGek> -Fix: don't show Vital Windows EVER if you go to GM_MENU (tnx Darkvater) 14:18:20 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 5946 14:18:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5946 /trunk/ (Makefile bmp.c bmp.h clear_cmd.c command.c console_cmds.c engine.c fios.c fios.h functions.h genworld.c genworld.h genworld_gui.c gfx.c gui.h heightmap.c heightmap.h industry_cmd.c intro_gui.c landscape.c lang/english.txt macros.h main_gui.c misc.c misc_gui.c network_gui.c network_server.c openttd.c openttd.h openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj os/linux/openttd.spec os/macosx/splash.c os2.c saveload.c saveload.h screens 14:18:23 <DorpsGek> -Add: merged the TGP branch to mainline. TGP adds: 14:18:24 <TrueLight> lol :) 14:18:25 <DorpsGek> - New optional landscape generator (TerraGenesis Perlin) 14:18:27 <DorpsGek> - Load heightmaps (either BMP or PNG) 14:18:29 <DorpsGek> - Progress dialog while generating worlds (no longer a 'hanging' screen) 14:18:31 <DorpsGek> - New dialogs for NewGame, Create Scenario and Play Heightmap 14:18:33 <TrueLight> The bot 'talks' too slow :( 14:18:34 <DorpsGek> (...) (truncated) 14:18:45 <Bjarni> better slow than not 14:18:48 <Bjarni> at all 14:19:22 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:19:26 <TrueLight> things you want to add / remove from the commit? 14:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... maybe for more than 3 files, you should not list them... 14:19:44 <TrueLight> Eddi|zuHause: working on that yes 14:20:32 *** __bebe__ [ssssss@86.127.74.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:34 <Bjarni> TrueLight: how about ability to get all the files (like now) and full log 14:20:43 <Bjarni> with like !openttd commit 5946 full 14:20:49 <TrueLight> Bjarni: and spam this channel? 14:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> PM? 14:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> or /notice? 14:21:08 <TrueLight> that is an option yes 14:21:14 <TrueLight> but baby steps :) 14:21:17 <TrueLight> remember the request 14:21:22 <TrueLight> and tell me again when I say I am done with this :) 14:22:12 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:22:42 <MeusH> hello glx 14:22:49 <glx> hello 14:23:02 <TrueLight> Lol! CIA tells me there are 58 files, I count 57 14:23:20 <MeusH> TrueLight,, how about automaticly triggering the bot by svn server (when it gets commit command)? 14:23:47 <TrueLight> MeusH: really?! What an amazing idea!!!! 14:23:50 <TrueLight> wow, let me write that down 14:23:52 <MeusH> ... 14:23:53 <hylje> lol 14:24:08 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 14:24:27 <TrueLight> sorry, but that really is a big DAH! :) 14:25:10 <TrueLight> CIA really counts files wrong it seems 14:25:26 <TrueLight> not always 14:25:27 <TrueLight> weird 14:25:28 <TrueLight> what ever 14:25:35 <hylje> TrueLight: are you coding that svn bot then? 14:25:41 <TrueLight> hylje: yes 14:25:56 <hylje> i could have use for a simple such bot 14:26:27 <TrueLight> I just need to count dirs now 14:26:34 <TrueLight> which is pretty tricky I think 14:26:59 <hylje> regexpes will do, i assume you work with paths 14:27:06 <TrueLight> I have a list of files 14:27:11 <TrueLight> now I need to count the dirs of that 14:28:17 <hylje> recursively? 14:28:18 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: SYN] 14:28:43 <TrueLight> hmm 14:28:45 <TrueLight> they are sorted 14:28:47 <TrueLight> so it is easy :) 14:29:28 <hylje> nice 14:30:00 <TrueLight> but okay, for what you need a bot like this? 14:30:10 <hylje> for a project of mine 14:30:17 <hylje> its not really public yet 14:30:57 <TrueLight> :) I can make DorpsGek join there and work for you 14:30:59 <TrueLight> just not now 14:31:01 <TrueLight> but soon it will 14:31:06 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 14:31:10 <MeusH> bye 14:31:20 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:25 <hylje> were on a private irc network, ive looked at cia and rolling my own 14:31:29 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.2] has joined #openttd 14:31:44 <hylje> cia is a bitt of a hassle to set up 14:31:59 <TrueLight> Not really, but CIA has a really slow response time, and you can't configure it yourself 14:33:31 <TrueLight> bah, forgot a single } 14:33:31 <hylje> and im not too good with doing multitasking (ie. bots) either :/ 14:33:37 <TrueLight> I should test it before rehashing the bot :p 14:33:43 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 14:33:48 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.120.186] has joined #openttd 14:33:49 <Bjarni> wb DorpsGek 14:33:51 <TrueLight> but if you like I can make DorpsGek join that network 14:33:58 <hylje> forgetting a } is fun when theres 10k lines of code 14:34:00 <Bjarni> TrueLight: you should make it reply to that :) 14:34:21 <ln-> http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/art/im_getting_sued.gif 14:34:29 <TrueLight> !openttd files 5946 14:34:31 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: /trunk/ (57 files in 56 dirs) 14:34:31 <TrueLight> lol at data :p 14:34:40 <glx> hehe 14:34:54 <hylje> that is fine but i feel more comfortable running said code myself 14:35:23 <TrueLight> Lol ln-, I hope that isn't for real :) 14:35:58 <hylje> and sure id contribute fixes and fun stuff back to you if i a) can make sense of it b) have ideas 14:36:05 <Bjarni> lol @ ln- 14:36:11 <TrueLight> oh, that you ment with CIA 14:36:17 <TrueLight> you don't want to launch your own CIA bot no :p 14:36:30 *** gotiniens [~gotiniens@cc68413-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:38 <stillunknown> ln-: did you get that e-mail? 14:36:39 <hylje> :p 14:36:44 *** Trenskow [~outlet@80.251.195.2] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer] 14:36:47 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit] 14:36:54 <hylje> i did study cia a bit then 14:37:03 <hylje> it was a bit large 14:37:48 <hylje> and yes, overkill for a svn announcer for a single channel/svn 14:38:17 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:38:54 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:26 *** Bengoz [~sasa@kl-hki-feb0dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:40:36 <TrueLight> hylje: the downside of this bot is, it is TCL :( 14:40:39 <TrueLight> (eggdrop) 14:40:40 <ln-> stillunknown: silence, or i'll sue you too. 14:40:42 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:41:46 <hylje> its fine 14:42:05 <hylje> i might arse myself to recreate its essence in another language 14:42:55 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 14:42:57 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3ECB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:43:12 <TrueLight> !openttd files 5946 14:43:13 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: /trunk/ (57 files in 5 dirs) 14:43:14 <TrueLight> Finally :) 14:43:16 <XeryusTC> ln-: lol, did you receive that email? 14:43:46 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:48 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:13 <grimrc1> hi all; compiling openttd on Gentoo is stopping with thread.c:(.text+0x1c): undefined reference to `pthread_join' ... and similarly for pthread_create; is this because I compiled glibc with the USE flag 'nptlonly'? 14:45:52 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:54 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:45:57 <hylje> you ricer 14:45:59 <hylje> :p 14:46:08 <grimrc1> hehe 14:46:14 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3EAE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:29 <TrueLight> grimrc1: so don't do that 14:46:32 <TrueLight> okay, now we solved that... :p 14:46:42 <TrueLight> grimrc1: OpenTTD currently _needs_ pthreads 14:46:50 <TrueLight> there should be a switch to make it not depend on it 14:47:05 <Maedhros> grimrc1: i can't see why that would be a problem, unless you don't have nptl enabled... 14:47:19 <TrueLight> Maedhros: did you ever read what he wrote? 14:47:21 <grimrc1> just wondering if that *is* the reason; coz it'd take ages to recompile glibc; I'm not going to bother; presumably openttd is making a wrong assumption about threading and should use nptl anyway? obviously, I don't know an awful lot about threading 14:47:35 <Maedhros> TrueLight: yes. he has nptlonly, which is a seperate USE flag to nptl 14:47:45 <grimrc1> TrueLight: that's exactly what I wanted to know thanks! 14:47:52 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc75.host1.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:56 <TrueLight> Maedhros: okay, sorry, I read him wrong :p 14:48:27 <grimrc1> I did Google and stuff but I didn't find anyone else with the same error; not many people use nptlonly I suppose 14:48:34 <TrueLight> grimrc1: you can get a simple patch that make it not need pthreads 14:48:56 <Maedhros> grimrc1: i use ntplonly, but i've never seen any compilation failing to find pthreads :-/ 14:49:12 <grimrc1> Maedhros: including openttd 0.4.8? 14:49:22 <ln-> XeryusTC: no, it's a random irc link. 14:49:32 <Maedhros> hmm, i've only tried openttd svn 14:49:36 <grimrc1> TrueLight: when you say 'get' a sumple patch, do you mean somebody's already done it? 14:49:45 <TrueLight> grimrc1: nah, but I can do it for you in seconds 14:49:52 <TrueLight> but first... I wonder about something 14:50:03 <TrueLight> nptl shouldn't mean you don't have pthread, right? (not my field :p) 14:50:11 <grimrc1> TrueLight: oh no don't bother yourself honestly; I'm sure it'll be sorted out in good time; I'll just wait for the next release 14:50:24 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc75.host1.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 14:50:43 <grimrc1> TrueLight: I used USE="nptl nptlonly" so as far as I understand it, I don't have pthreads 14:51:09 <TrueLight> I am trying to find info about nptl... :s 14:51:12 <Maedhros> grimrc1: you do, but you have nptl (Native Posix Threading Library) instead of Linuxthreads 14:51:35 <TrueLight> Maedhros: but does he has -lpthread? 14:51:43 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:55 <Maedhros> TrueLight: he really should - they're both different implementations of pthreads 14:52:03 <TrueLight> so, in that case 14:52:08 <TrueLight> grimrc1: you run via ebuilds, or manual? 14:52:11 <grimrc1> thanks for confirming what I thought though; when I'm ricing I have to get to the bottom of compiler errors or it causes a lot of hurt later 14:52:18 <Patrick`> grimrc1: yes, aren't use flags wonderful 14:52:24 <guru3> time to get 0.4.8 working on my 770 14:52:27 <grimrc1> TrueLight: I emerged 0.4.8; the latest 14:52:32 <Patrick`> because everyone knows everything they'll always install in the future all the time 14:52:36 <Maedhros> grimrc1: just a thought - are you using the --as-needed LDFLAG? 14:52:53 <TrueLight> grimrc1: that makes it a bit harder... :p 14:53:05 <grimrc1> Maedhros: yep I'm using as-neeeded 14:53:19 <Maedhros> aha. try removing it - i bet it works this time ;) 14:53:20 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:21 <grimrc1> shall I test recompiling without it? 14:53:27 <TrueLight> what is --as-needed? 14:53:46 <grimrc1> I will try for you and report back 14:53:50 <Maedhros> it tries to only link the libraries that are actually needed, rather than everything specified on the linker line 14:54:01 <TrueLight> lol 14:54:23 <Maedhros> unfortunately, it has some quirks which mean that it doesn't actually realise what it needs 14:54:50 <grimrc1> if any of you guys rice at all, check out the CFLAGS matrix on Gentoo TIPS wiki; contribute too if you find flags that break 14:54:50 <TrueLight> works fine here with --as-needed :) 14:55:36 <TrueLight> grimrc1: what is your binutils version? 14:55:58 <grimrc1> 2.17 14:56:07 <TrueLight> more detail? 14:56:19 <grimrc1> I don't know how to get more detail 14:56:21 <grimrc1> heh 14:56:48 <grimrc1> GNU ld version 2.17 14:57:10 <TrueLight> lol, I use 2.16.1 :) 14:57:21 <grimrc1> use Gentoo TrueLight? 14:57:23 <TrueLight> yeah 14:57:26 <TrueLight> 64bit 14:57:54 <grimrc1> binutils-config - see if you installed 2.17 and it's not being used? 14:58:11 <TrueLight> 64bit doesn't have any stable 2.17 :) 14:58:28 <TrueLight> http://www.gentoo-portage.com/sys-devel/binutils 14:58:35 <grimrc1> oh makes sense 14:58:44 <TrueLight> in fact, even on x86 it isn't even stable 14:59:07 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:59:28 <TrueLight> but okay, 2.17.50.0.2 is broken with --as-needed 14:59:32 <TrueLight> that is why I asked :) 14:59:50 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 5746 14:59:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5746 /branches/TGP/openttd.c: 14:59:53 <DorpsGek> [TGP] -Fix: make sure _patches is filled with _patches_newgame if using -g from command-line (tnx for spotting Rubidium) 15:00:04 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 15:00:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5950 /trunk/genworld.c: 15:00:07 <DorpsGek> -Fix: don't show Vital Windows EVER if you go to GM_MENU (tnx Darkvater) 15:00:07 <TrueLight> yeah, it works :) 15:00:12 <TrueLight> Darkvater: happy? 15:00:18 <Darkvater> >)] 15:00:26 <TrueLight> it isn't triggered yet automaticly 15:00:28 <TrueLight> that is next :) 15:00:48 <grimrc1> out of interest, does anyone know if the oil rig bug was fixed? sometimes an oil rig would not have a station name (so you couldn't dock there), but it did have the industry part; it didn't affect all rigs on the map either 15:01:47 <grimrc1> it does compile without --as-needed 15:01:57 <Maedhros> :) 15:02:02 <TrueLight> nice catch Maedhros :) 15:02:10 <grimrc1> I'll have to update CFLAGS matrix; thanks a lot for that tip 15:02:30 <TrueLight> now I wonder who's falt it is 15:02:59 <Maedhros> TrueLight: there's a document about fixing as-needed failures here, if it helps: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml 15:03:19 <TrueLight> Maedhros: I had that document open already yes :p 15:03:23 <grimrc1> helps me 15:03:26 <TrueLight> so I first still wonder what version grimrc1 uses 15:03:32 <Maedhros> ah, fair enough :) 15:03:33 <TrueLight> grimrc1: emerge --search binutils 15:03:37 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has joined #openttd 15:03:39 <TrueLight> even 15:03:42 <TrueLight> grimrc1: emerge --search sys-devel/binutils 15:03:46 <TrueLight> (is there a faster way?) 15:03:52 <TrueLight> shows the Gentoo version used 15:04:16 <TrueLight> as if he uses version 2.17.50.0.2, it is a big known problem, and not OpenTTD related 15:04:20 <grimrc1> I use eix - fast; I have 2.17 - not 2.17.x! 15:04:49 <grimrc1> I see the development versions: *2.17.50.0.2 and *2.17.50.0.3, but they are masked out for me 15:04:58 <TrueLight> they are masked out for everyone 15:05:00 <TrueLight> so is 2.17 :) 15:05:08 <grimrc1> yep; it's broked strangely 15:05:27 <TrueLight> so that didn't kept you from using it :p 15:06:04 * Maedhros disappears into the sunset... err broad daylight 15:06:09 <Maedhros> see you later, guys 15:06:12 <TrueLight> bye Maedhros :) 15:06:24 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 15:06:27 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:07 <grimrc1> now I know; I'm pretty sure 2.17 is a stable release; using --as-needed may be considered ricing though 15:08:37 <grimrc1> that's really strange; that guide says 2.17 is ok 15:09:38 <TrueLight> it should be yes 15:09:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:10:03 <grimrc1> perhaps I have something else broken 15:10:17 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:50 <TrueLight> !openttd commit 2 15:11:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by darkvater :: r2 /trunk/ (9 files) (2004-08-10 14:14:00 +0000) 15:11:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix [993829] UDP Fixes (lucaspiller) 15:11:53 <TrueLight> :) hehe :) 15:11:54 <DorpsGek> -Fix change 255/0xFF to OWNER_SPECTATOR for 15:11:56 <DorpsGek> spectator stuff (TrueLight) 15:14:17 <TrueLight> !openttd url 15:14:18 <DorpsGek> TrueLight: http://svn.openttd.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/5950 15:14:20 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:21 <TrueLight> Also very useful :) 15:14:46 *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has joined #openttd 15:15:13 <guru3> anyone help me out with where keypresses are handled? 15:18:49 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@dslb-082-083-195-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:18:55 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:24 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 15:19:58 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, whats going on with this bot of yours? lol 15:20:53 <TrueLight> sometimes I make a boo-hoo 15:20:55 <TrueLight> then it crashes 15:21:12 <JohnUK89> a boo-hoo... O_o 15:21:52 <Tron_> guru3: maybe if you're bit more inexact and vague 15:22:16 <guru3> i want to turn a keypress 15:22:17 <guru3> into a right click 15:22:23 <guru3> where do i intercept the keypress 15:22:27 <guru3> so i can forward it to a right click 15:22:33 *** Flyer [~marcelo.w@201-1-104-180.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:22:46 <Tron_> video/ 15:24:07 <guru3> ok 15:24:32 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:36 <TrueLight> bah.. 15:24:49 <Darkvater> thgere, screw that fucking function 15:25:03 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 15:25:10 <Darkvater> !openttd commit 15:25:25 <Tron_> Darkvater: may i remind you that minors may be in this channel 15:25:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by Darkvater :: r5951 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c (2006-08-19 15:24:40 +0000) 15:25:39 <DorpsGek> - Codechange: GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile() never did anything, and making it work properly only resulted in massive performance drops, and it not working properly also seemed to work, so make it not work properly once again. 15:26:03 <Darkvater> all minors please raise your hands 15:26:10 * JohnUK89 raises hand 15:26:15 *** JohnUK89 was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [JohnUK89] 15:26:17 <Darkvater> anyone else? 15:26:22 <Tron_> *cough* 15:26:23 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 15:26:28 <JohnUK89> :P 15:26:34 <TrueLight> I hope you didn't get a cold Tron_? 15:26:47 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 15:27:01 <JohnUK89> If webfreakz is in here he's a minor too 15:27:10 <JohnUK89> :) 15:27:19 <Darkvater> I guess he's smarter than to raise the hands ;) 15:27:21 <grimrc1> 1989 - 167 15:27:25 <grimrc1> 17 I mean 15:27:29 <JohnUK89> Yeah 15:27:29 <Tron> Darkvater: maybe a line explaining why exactly this function now is the way it is would've been nice 15:27:41 <grimrc1> is <18 minor or <16? 15:27:54 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, most countries hold it as <18 15:28:24 <Darkvater> Tron: the problem is, I don't know why it is as it is. I've been looking at it all day, trying various strategies and couldn't figure out the point behind 15:28:35 <JohnUK89> (Or if you're in Hull, <13 15:28:38 <JohnUK89> ) 15:28:46 <Darkvater> especially the fact that checksignalproc() worked just the same with or without proper workings 15:29:07 <Darkvater> only when properly implemented, the function at about 65% of all assigned CPU time 15:29:13 <Darkvater> s/at/ate/ 15:29:35 <Tron> that's simple to explain: signal propagation itself can skip over tunnels 15:30:13 <guru3> where does KMOD_CTRL come from? 15:30:42 <Darkvater> translatekeyboard or something 15:30:56 <guru3> so could i just arbitrarily use KMOD_RETURN? 15:31:08 <Darkvater> if it propagates, why is it even using the function? 15:31:13 <Tron> guru3: SDL 15:31:23 <Tron> return is no modifier key 15:31:28 <guru3> right 15:31:29 <grimrc1> JohnUK89: nope Stockport 15:31:30 <guru3> that's a good point 15:31:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:37 <Tron> Darkvater: interesting question, next question please 15:31:44 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, well it's <18 then 15:31:50 <grimrc1> JohnUK89: Stockport's a beautiful town, or not 15:31:53 <guru3> so SDLK_RETURN 15:31:55 <guru3> would that be ok? 15:31:57 <JohnUK89> Lmao 15:32:12 <JohnUK89> I'm moving to Leeds in a couple of weeks, so I know how you feel 15:32:23 <Darkvater> Tron: the funny part is, if I _turn_ around a train inside a tunnel, the whole thing is screwed 15:32:24 <grimrc1> I liked living in Manchester though 15:32:38 <Darkvater> v->tile is *never* swapped around on reverse inside a tunnel 15:32:50 <Tron> Darkvater: which "whole thing"? 15:33:03 <Tron> Darkvater: it's always the tile the vehicle entered the tunnel 15:33:14 <Darkvater> the assumption that inside a tunnel v->tile points to the entrance 15:33:20 <Tron> Darkvater: that's one of the reasons why i suggested to use TileVirtXY(v->x, v->y) 15:33:29 <Tron> instead of v->tile 15:34:01 <valhallasw> TrueLight was the Leiden guy here, right? :+ 15:34:18 <Darkvater> Tron: for all computations? 15:34:29 <TrueLight> valhallasw: yeah, why? 15:34:32 <Tron> Darkvater: for GetVehicleOutOfTunnel 15:34:45 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, at the moment, I'm in the middle of the countryside, but I can hardly get anywhere at all...so I'm going to Leeds, so I'll be closer to stuff, and be able to get a bus every 10 minutes into the centre 15:34:45 <valhallasw> TrueLight: ben je lid? :P 15:34:51 <TrueLight> valhallasw: PM 15:35:01 *** sayno [~sayno@ip67-88-107-227.z107-88-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:09 <Darkvater> I think I missed that suggestion 15:36:20 <grimrc1> JohnUK89: yeah that's why I like cities 15:36:45 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, yep, and the broadband helps too 15:36:55 <JohnUK89> (I can't get it where I am) 15:37:00 <grimrc1> oh yeah! civilisation 15:37:08 <JohnUK89> Yep! 15:37:36 <JohnUK89> I'll be able to play OTTD online :P 15:38:11 <hylje> :o 15:38:11 <grimrc1> brb 15:38:24 <JohnUK89> hylje, you look shocked lol 15:38:42 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 15:38:56 <JohnUK89> the thought of me playing OTTD online shocks you that much? 15:38:57 <JohnUK89> :P 15:39:16 <hylje> yes 15:39:30 <JohnUK89> And why does it shock you? 15:39:32 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:00 <TrueLight> I did it again :) 15:40:07 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 15:40:10 <JohnUK89> TrueLight, borked it up? 15:40:44 <TrueLight> food! 15:41:13 <JohnUK89> Hmm I need food too...I'll wait for bout quarter of an hour...got a couple of things to do 15:41:52 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:45:29 *** john_ [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 15:45:37 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))] 15:45:40 *** john_ is now known as JohnUK89 15:46:07 <JohnUK89> Blargh! 15:46:07 *** WolfAngel [~wolfangel@83.72.164.148.ip.tele2adsl.dk] has joined #openttd 15:47:14 <JohnUK89> brb 15:47:15 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [] 15:48:43 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 15:48:54 <JohnUK89> I never knew TwinView could do that... 15:49:36 <guru3> woo my key bindings are coming together 15:49:39 <SpComb> do what? 15:50:08 <JohnUK89> SpComb, use different resolutions for each output 15:50:16 *** RPGprayer [~rpgprayer@h15n1fls32o878.telia.com] has joined #openttd 15:50:42 <JohnUK89> Just tried it and it works! :-D 15:50:52 <RPGprayer> Anyone know where I can get a hold of the TGP download? The link is broken on the site now for some reason. 15:51:06 <Zavior> Newest nightly? 15:51:17 <RPGprayer> tgp wasn't in it, apparently 15:51:44 <JohnUK89> It's been merged with trunk 15:51:45 <RPGprayer> At least the TerraGenesis thingy window didn't appear when i chose "New game" like before 15:51:58 <RPGprayer> Trunk? 15:52:17 <RPGprayer> as in 0.4.8? 15:52:17 <JohnUK89> Yeah, latest SVN...(someone help him :P) 15:52:20 <RPGprayer> lawl 15:52:23 <guru3> how do you tell if two keys are pressed at once in sdl? 15:52:38 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, not 0.4.8, no 15:52:54 <JohnUK89> It'll be in tonights nightly 15:53:05 *** wollviech [~gk@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #openttd 15:53:18 <RPGprayer> when is "tonight", then? around 20-21 GMT? 15:53:35 <JohnUK89> Don't know, whenever the nightlies get compiled 15:53:39 <RPGprayer> blargh 15:53:47 <JohnUK89> I normally get them the morning after 15:53:58 <JohnUK89> (either that or I compile from source myself) 15:54:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77FDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:25 <RPGprayer> Doesn't anyone have the tgp install/zip to send? 15:54:41 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:54:59 <JohnUK89> Darkvater, ping 15:56:11 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, wb 15:56:18 <RPGprayer> By the way, is there a good list with newgrf's to download? the forum is kind of messy 15:57:07 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ 15:57:24 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Cheers 15:57:35 <grimrc1> rehi all; I had the dedicated USE flag on and so I'm recompiling agin 15:57:54 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, lol 15:57:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp83-237-234-163.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 15:58:30 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: I just hope the stuff will work for ottd 15:58:51 *** izhirahider [~izhirahid@izhirahider.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:59:03 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, the stuff on there most likely does, as long as you follow any instructions that are giver for OTTD 15:59:03 *** izhirahider [~izhirahid@squareroot.divisionbyzero.net] has joined #openttd 15:59:39 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Well, afaik, it's nothing special you have to do 16:00:04 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, some grf's have incompatabilities, sometimes there is a seperate version of the grf for OTTD 16:00:25 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Ah, haven't encountered those before 16:01:13 <JohnUK89> An example of one is Planeset 16:03:01 <grimrc1> I've not tried the Mars add-on 16:03:01 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: For the Long Road Vehicles grf; is there a way to make it compatible with ottd? i tried that one before and it worked, with some graphics bugs 16:03:21 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Version 3, that is 16:03:21 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, I don't know, I haven't used it tbh 16:03:31 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Okay, just asking 16:03:31 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, me neither 16:04:20 <grimrc1> hehe there's a brick viaduct grf in there; Stockport has the longest/biggest/somethingest viaduct in Europe apparently 16:04:34 <JohnUK89> Lol 16:05:26 <grimrc1> Stockport's claims to fame are the viaduct, a blue pyramid office building and scallies 16:05:39 <grimrc1> oh and its hatting history 16:05:41 <JohnUK89> The chavs especially :P 16:05:46 <Patrick`> lol stockport 16:05:48 <grimrc1> yeah but we call them scallies here 16:05:59 <Patrick`> it's the rectum of manchester 16:06:08 <grimrc1> certainly is 16:06:18 <grimrc1> though Manchester has a few rougher places 16:06:36 <Patrick`> such as stockport. 16:06:40 <grimrc1> heh 16:06:58 <grimrc1> Stockport's like a big motorway service station on the A6; except the A6 isn't a motorway 16:07:47 <grimrc1> yay I've got openttd up 16:08:50 <grimrc1> openttd would make a cool screensaver 16:11:23 <RPGprayer> hehe 16:14:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by Darkvater :: r5951 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c (2006-08-19 15:24:40 +0000) 16:14:15 <DorpsGek> - Codechange: GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile() never did anything, and making it work properly only resulted in massive performance drops, and it not working properly also seemed to work, so make it not work properly once again. 16:14:17 <TrueLight> This was a test message 16:14:25 <TrueLight> Almost done :) 16:15:30 <RPGprayer> hurreh 16:15:31 <RPGprayer> :D 16:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> can you make it a proper timezone? 16:16:41 <TrueLight> proper? haha 16:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e CEST) 16:16:50 <TrueLight> +0000 is pretty proper 16:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody currently hase +0000 time 16:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> -e 16:18:14 <JohnUK89> Some african nations do :) 16:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> see ;) 16:18:43 * JohnUK89 slaps Eddi|zuHause for being silly 16:18:46 <JohnUK89> :) 16:19:34 *** Zr40 [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:19:40 <RPGprayer> nightly build will be evening build :O 16:19:42 *** NameHere [~IdentHere@host86-137-195-115.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:54 <NameHere> hi all 16:20:05 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, it'll be a whenever it's compiled build :P 16:20:05 <RPGprayer> Is there a way to edit grf's by the way? 16:20:21 *** NameHere is now known as Xipheas 16:21:45 <TrueLight> hmm.. no netcat on OpenTTD SVNServer yet 16:21:46 <TrueLight> weird 16:21:54 <TrueLight> so let's install it 16:22:46 <RPGprayer> TrueLight: Do you know of another download location for TGP until the nightly is done? I don't want to wait if i really, really, have to (and please don't say i have to wait, not for long anyway >_<) 16:22:57 <grimrc1> updated CFLAGS if anybody's interested: http://gentoo-wiki.com/CFLAGS_matrix 16:23:08 <Patrick`> compile it yerself 16:23:16 <TrueLight> RPGprayer: you have to wait 1 hour and 27 minutes... depending on your OS, it might be 1 hour and 49 minutes 16:23:29 <RPGprayer> amagaaaad 16:23:33 <RPGprayer> -_- :) 16:23:40 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, you impatient bugger :P 16:23:42 <RPGprayer> Patrick`: teach me :D 16:23:47 * XeryusTC never had to wait for it >:) 16:23:55 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Can't argue with that 16:23:59 <XeryusTC> compiling yourself rocks :D 16:24:01 <Xipheas> i have Open ttd ver 0.4.0.1 installed, and have just d/l 0.4.8 can someone tell me what I need to do to upgrade it pls? 16:24:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by Darkvater :: r5951 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c (2006-08-19 15:24:40 UTC) 16:24:10 <JohnUK89> XeryusTC, doesn't it! 16:24:11 <DorpsGek> - Codechange: GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile() never did anything, and making it work properly only resulted in massive performance drops, and it not working properly also seemed to work, so make it not work properly once again. 16:24:13 <TrueLight> Ah, it works :) 16:24:18 <TrueLight> k, next commit should go in automaticly :) 16:24:32 <XeryusTC> JohnUK89: it does! 16:24:36 <RPGprayer> And why the heck does my mouse cursor feck up when I tab from ottd? :( 16:25:17 <JohnUK89> XeryusTC, I never got compiling it in Winblows cracked...so I moved over to Linux and it works now :P 16:25:26 <stillunknown> is there an easy way to find out where a nick (which channels) on an irc server? 16:25:36 <JohnUK89> stillunknown, whois 16:25:48 <stillunknown> "/whois"? 16:25:51 <XeryusTC> yes 16:25:56 <XeryusTC> /whois name 16:26:04 <JohnUK89> "/whois <nick>" 16:26:08 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:26:13 <JohnUK89> Oh Noes!! 16:26:17 <TinoM> Xipheas, just extract into the same dir, overwriting the old files 16:26:18 <XeryusTC> you won't see all the secret channels though 16:26:28 * XeryusTC hands everybody a helmet and runs 16:26:30 <Xipheas> TinoM thanks! :) 16:26:35 <TrueLight> now we need a commit... 16:26:41 <TinoM> i don'T know about compatiblity with your old savegames 16:26:42 * JohnUK89 runs in a different direction 16:26:54 <Patrick`> kthxbyee 16:27:17 <XeryusTC> TinoM: stables should be able to load savegames from other (older) stables 16:27:32 <stillunknown> anyone ever get strange DCC SEND's? (containing random or only one letter many times) 16:27:44 <TinoM> k, Xipheas have a look at XeryusTC statement *g* 16:27:54 <hylje> stillunknown: script kiddies *g* 16:27:58 <Xipheas> :) thanks 16:28:12 <XeryusTC> *g*? 16:28:22 <JohnUK89> grin 16:28:51 <XeryusTC> shouldn't that be just :D? 16:28:58 <RPGprayer> I wish ottd will have trams and subways soon :O 16:29:13 * stillunknown wonders who will actually accept those things (strange DCC's) 16:29:16 <RPGprayer> Oh, and a swedish train and bus set 16:29:18 <JohnUK89> XeryusTC, yeah lol 16:29:56 <XeryusTC> RPGprayer: isn't there a swedish set? 16:30:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by tron :: r5952 /trunk/ (newgrf_text.c newgrf_text.h) (2006-08-19 16:30:05 UTC) 16:30:08 <Tron> TrueLight: here you are 16:30:09 <DorpsGek> - struct GRFText{Entry,} are private to newgrf_text.c 16:30:11 <DorpsGek> - use a variable size array instead of another malloc() 16:30:23 <RPGprayer> XeryusTC: yeah, but afaik it only had like 3 trains or something 16:30:49 <XeryusTC> RPGprayer: so? the dutch set only has 4 trains too IIRC, and people use it :) 16:31:27 <stillunknown> the british set seems well done, plenty of trains 16:31:38 *** ChrisM87_ [~ChrisM@p54AC6FF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:31:43 <RPGprayer> XeryusTC: Haha, well, as long as it doesn't mess up with other grf's 16:31:44 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7E51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:48 <TrueLight> so it runs nicely 16:32:13 <RPGprayer> By the way; is it only me or does banks never appear in ottd? :O 16:32:33 <hylje> they do 16:32:34 <TrueLight> only it talks too slow :( 16:33:08 <XeryusTC> TrueLight: get CIA back in here then :P 16:33:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5953 /trunk/ (genworld_gui.c lang/english.txt) (2006-08-19 16:33:10 UTC) 16:33:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix: tooltip for FlatLand had wrong color (tnx glx) 16:33:28 <RPGprayer> hylje: Really? I don't think I've seen a single bank in forever 16:33:37 <grimrc1> do you think openttd is very popular with train-spotters? 16:33:58 <glx> !openttd url 16:33:59 <DorpsGek> glx: http://svn.openttd.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/5953 16:34:09 <hylje> you haven't played long enough then ;) 16:34:37 <grimrc1> RPGprayer: what year have you played till? 16:34:47 <RPGprayer> durr, 1920-2050 a couple of times should have revealed at least a single bank 16:34:58 <RPGprayer> with different installs 16:35:02 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:54 *** Flyer [~marcelo.w@201-1-104-180.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:54 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.120.186] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 16:39:30 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:55 <TrueLight> okay, so 'CIA' is back :) 16:39:57 <TrueLight> nice to have ;) 16:40:28 <hylje> yay 16:41:18 <TrueLight> if anyone wants any additions to it, let me know 16:41:33 <TrueLight> hylje: I will clean up the code soon and share it with you 16:41:36 <TrueLight> just not now :p 16:42:47 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 16:43:02 <hylje> no hurry 16:43:11 <TrueLight> 253 lines :p 16:44:15 <webfreakz> !seen webfreak* 16:44:15 <DorpsGek> webfreakz, I found one match to your query: webfreakz. webfreakz (~Ronald@195.73.147.226) was last seen joining #openttd 5 hours 1 minute ago (19.08. 11:43). webfreakz is still there. 16:44:37 <webfreakz> where can i see all the commands? 16:44:44 <webfreakz> !seen /help 16:44:45 <DorpsGek> webfreakz, /help? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember /help. 16:44:46 <JohnUK89> !commands 16:44:57 <webfreakz> !commands 16:45:10 <JohnUK89> !help 16:45:13 <webfreakz> !help 16:45:22 <webfreakz> !kick blaaaaat 16:45:29 <TrueLight> there is no such thing 16:45:30 <TrueLight> period 16:45:32 <JohnUK89> webfreakz, when I've said them there's no need to say them again ;-) 16:46:01 <webfreakz> JohnUK89: :X 16:46:10 <webfreakz> :) 16:46:42 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:18 <Sacro> !commands 16:51:21 <Sacro> aww :( 16:51:34 *** Wolf01|AFK is now known as Wolf01 16:51:44 <JohnUK89> Sacro, already been tried :P 16:56:10 <grimrc1> do you guys ever talk to Sid Meier? 16:56:19 <hylje> no 16:57:03 <grimrc1> I'm suprised he hasn't swung by to say hello; who knows; maybe he did in disguise? 16:57:15 <hylje> :o 16:57:17 <Kjetil> Why Sid Meier ? 16:57:25 <grimrc1> didn't he make TTDLX? 16:57:32 <Kjetil> Chris Sawyer made it 16:57:32 <hylje> afaik no 16:57:40 <grimrc1> oh yeah; what about him then? 16:57:47 <hylje> sid is/was making a train simulator tho :p 16:57:51 <glx> Sid Meier is simcity guy, no? 16:57:57 <hylje> no. 16:58:00 <hylje> civ guy 16:58:09 <grimrc1> Chris Sawyer even dropped by? 16:58:10 <hylje> and he made a pirate game too 16:58:14 <Kjetil> Some of the devs have been in contact with him regarding graphics. But he doesn't seem all that interrested 16:58:41 <grimrc1> he must have tried openttd out 16:59:01 <grimrc1> do you think he's a Gentoo ricer? 16:59:10 <hylje> dunno lol 16:59:35 <grimrc1> I bet he's on Windows 17:00:36 <Kjetil> I bet he's on dos 17:00:52 <Kjetil> /cocaine 17:02:20 <grimrc1> from Chris' site: "Simon Foster is an independent freelance graphic artist who has a long association with Chris Sawyer, having created the graphics for all his games since Transport Tycoon in 1992/1993." 17:03:48 <grimrc1> from Simon's site: "That little bungalow on the left with the brown roof is my father's house. The one behind it is Chris' old house." hehe 17:04:53 <grimrc1> wonder if Simon owns the copyright to the artwork ?? 17:05:44 <Kjetil> Guess what.. So does the rest of the world :P 17:05:50 <Kjetil> nobody knows 17:06:02 <grimrc1> people already tried that? 17:06:10 <Kjetil> mhm 17:06:29 <grimrc1> strangely, neither Simon nor Chris mention Openttd on their sites 17:06:52 <Kjetil> Well.. they aren't involved in it 17:12:18 <Sacro> hmm, be interesting if he came in 17:12:45 <JohnUK89> Yeah, wonder what would happen lol 17:14:59 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a2e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:34 <JohnUK89> Does Chris actually know OTTD exists? 17:15:34 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6861.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 17:16:01 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a2e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:16:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:16:19 <Sacro> JohnUK89: go and ask him 17:16:23 <grimrc1> a thought: if he doesn't, maybe it's best that nobody mentions it? 17:16:34 * Sacro considers going into #tycoon as CSawyer 17:16:41 <JohnUK89> Sacro, no thanks :) 17:16:54 <grimrc1> he'll eventually find out anyway 17:16:56 <lws1984> probably not the best idea 17:17:05 <lws1984> actuall,y it would be fun 17:17:18 <grimrc1> bit surprising nobody's done this before 17:18:19 <JohnUK89> IF nobody's done it before, that is 17:19:07 <grimrc1> he probably gets 5 e-mails/week from openttd users saying "thanks for letting openttd happen!" 17:19:28 <JohnUK89> Wouldn't surprise me at all 17:19:41 <Sacro> hum, lets start a MiniIN game 17:20:04 <Sacro> who maintains the site? 17:20:09 <RPGprayer> What is MiniIN anyway? 17:20:09 <grimrc1> he shouldn't complain anyway, lots of people who never heard of it before may buy the disk 17:20:23 <JohnUK89> Sacro, I would join if I was on a decent connection...but I'd only be able to watch, since my network building skills leave a lot to be desired 17:20:36 <Sacro> div .ad_back 4 contains nothing... 17:21:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03E95.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:26:54 *** Xipheas [~IdentHere@host86-137-195-115.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 17:28:02 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))] 17:28:03 *** john_ [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 17:28:06 *** john_ is now known as JohnUK89 17:30:14 <grimrc1> you know how you have lots of different unix signals you can use with the kill command? is there a signal that tells an app to restart/reload settings? 17:30:32 <Kjetil> -HUP 17:31:17 * Sacro cries 17:33:25 <grimrc1> wow that's awesome; it worked with gnome-panel and now the menu has the screensaver option I just installed, without logging out 17:33:43 <grimrc1> does the app have to support SIGHUP to work properly? 17:34:14 <Sacro> i think so 17:34:21 <Sacro> unless it just kills it and restarts it some other way 17:34:32 <grimrc1> yeah that's what I was wondering 17:36:24 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a18.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has joined #openttd 17:36:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03E95.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:17 <grimrc1> as you can probably tell, I'm not a Unix old-timer unfortunately 17:42:01 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6861.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer] 17:42:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77FDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:45:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:12 *** john_ [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 17:49:11 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))] 17:49:24 *** john_ is now known as JohnUK89 18:02:30 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 18:04:21 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:55 *** Progman [~progman@p5091F7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:28 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:05:48 <grimrc1> hmmm gnome-session doesn't like killall -1 as much as gnome-panel; what did my quit message say? 18:06:06 <Sacro> [19:03] *** grimrc1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 18:06:19 <grimrc1> hehe 18:06:33 <RPGprayer> stupid ottd hides my mouse cursor when i tab >_< couldn't see to copy the text 18:08:00 <grimrc1> that did the job though; the gnome-screensaver wasn't actually starting before 18:08:38 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 18:08:43 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, shouldn't use Winblows then ;-) 18:08:43 <grimrc1> it's got this spooky slow fade-out effect before it loads the screensaver; and it's not like the old screensavers where it'd take a snapshot; the desktop's really running as it fades out 18:08:49 <Sacro> grimrc1: hehe, -HUP gnome-session wil do that 18:09:01 <MeusH> hi 18:09:04 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AFK 18:09:07 <JohnUK89> MeusH, ello 18:09:07 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Lol, it works, it works 18:09:32 <MeusH> Rubidium, how can I determine a random seed of a saved game? 18:09:35 <Sacro> hey mr MeusH 18:09:40 <grimrc1> I mean -HUP didn't start the screensaver; it just made me relogin and then the screensaver magically started working 18:09:42 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: And besides; the games that i play are for windows and hard to get to work on Lajnucks 18:09:43 <MeusH> evening Sacro 18:09:51 <MeusH> Rubidium, I mean in TGP 18:09:57 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, never heard of Cedega? :) 18:10:06 <Sacro> MeusH: therse only 1 way i can think of... 18:10:18 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: No, actually... An emulator? 18:10:20 <Sacro> 00000000, 00000001, 00000002 18:10:35 <MeusH> ouch 18:10:47 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, not as such, it is basically a compatability layer 18:11:01 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Arite, fill me in 18:11:18 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, best do a bit of googling <koff> <koff> 18:11:25 <RPGprayer> JohnUK89: Nevah! 18:11:53 <RPGprayer> (far too busy playing ottd, tbh) 18:11:58 <JohnUK89> lmao 18:12:32 <RPGprayer> I'm making a subway kind of thing 18:12:44 <RPGprayer> as far as it's possible to make subways in ttd 18:12:53 <JohnUK89> Lol 18:14:03 <grimrc1> I'm trying to use Openttd with gnome-screensaver; I've made the config file and it does start it in preview mode but it doesn't capture the game window inside the little box; openttd is started as a separate app.; also, running in real screensaver mode openttd doesn't seem to be started at all 18:14:07 <RPGprayer> i'm surprised the inhabitants of the town hasn't lynched me thrice over for destroying half of their town for making my evil transport empire subway thingie :/ 18:15:27 <hylje> :d 18:15:31 <hylje> anyway 18:15:38 <grimrc1> anybody got experience with screensavers under Linux? can I use openttd? 18:15:50 <hylje> i suppose subway can be done after new map array is first done 18:16:23 <hylje> because now tunnels are magic, and can't have anything in it 18:16:27 <RPGprayer> the only experience i have with linux screensavers are poking around with the 4363 ones that comes with ubuntu and thinking "LOLWOWCOOL" -_- 18:16:44 <grimrc1> LOL!!1! indeed 18:16:58 *** StarLite [~Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:17:10 <grimrc1> last time I used Linux, it was Debian unstable 3.0 or something like that; I think screensavers must be growing exponentially 18:17:31 <RPGprayer> i don't want to know how big the list will be in a couple of years :d 18:17:50 <grimrc1> they'll be LiveCD CD 5 18:17:58 <RPGprayer> haha 18:18:01 <MeusH> my experience with screensavers on linux is that they are nice but linux isn't the best thing to do 3D 18:18:09 <MeusH> I had around 10fps 18:18:15 <RPGprayer> haha true that 18:18:32 <RPGprayer> grow little city... GROW! 18:18:39 <grimrc1> MeusH: did you go through all the setting up X and kernel for your graphics card properly (if it can be done with your particular one)? 18:19:07 <RPGprayer> i hate the fact that the diagnostic tool in ubuntu didn't show what kind of cpu the comp had :/ 18:19:24 <MeusH> grimrc1: I'm not sure, I installed that ubuntu and run it, the only thing I configured was network 18:19:30 <grimrc1> RPGprayer: that's easy to do; just cat /proc/cpuinfo 18:19:35 <MeusH> now linux doesn't work at all 18:19:40 <RPGprayer> grimrc1: Say what? 18:19:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by miham :: r5954 /trunk/lang/ (6 files) (2006-08-19 18:19:41 UTC) 18:19:45 <RPGprayer> grimrc1: Lol 18:19:45 <DorpsGek> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-19 20:17:26 18:19:47 <DorpsGek> dutch - 54 fixed by webfreakz (54) 18:19:48 <hylje> linux 3d is as good as if not better than windows 18:19:49 <DorpsGek> french - 74 fixed by glx (74) 18:19:51 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 79 fixed by miham (79) 18:19:53 <DorpsGek> norwegian - 2 fixed by oletk (2) 18:19:55 <DorpsGek> (...) (truncated) 18:19:58 <RPGprayer> DorpsGek: Spam :( 18:20:01 <grimrc1> MeusH: you're new to Linux? 18:20:03 <hylje> except on D3D-optimised gfx cards (coughATI) 18:20:25 *** john_ [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 18:20:36 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))] 18:20:40 *** john_ is now known as JohnUK89 18:20:49 <MiHaMiX> Total I18N status: 93% - 5447 bad strings out of 78532 strings 18:21:01 <grimrc1> I'm using Radeon 9000 with the open-source drivers; there is an annoying problem where if the X server is closed then switching to terminal 7 (where it usually is) will freeze my display till I reboot 18:21:08 <MeusH> grimrc1, yep 18:21:41 <MiHaMiX> polish - 1 changed by meush (1) 18:21:42 <MiHaMiX> portuguese - 15 fixed by izhirahider (15) 18:21:53 <grimrc1> MeusH: it is a big deal setting up the kernel and xserver for your graphics card even now; depends what card you have and how recent it is; older cards just work I think 18:22:42 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, the open source driver for radeons before the 9500 has DRI, and just "works" 18:22:57 <JohnUK89> It's nvidias that take a load of arsing about to get working 18:22:57 <Sacro> its in times like this i think "WWTFSMD" 18:23:54 <grimrc1> yeah I know JohnUK89; I have the Radeon 9000 and am using open source driver; still have to recompile the kernel the right way (agpgart, agp chipset, drm and radeon) and also the Xserver 18:24:09 <JohnUK89> grimrc1, shouldn't need a recompile 18:25:00 <grimrc1> does if you start with Gentoo LiveCD I think; not sure though; I've done it already anyway 18:25:12 <JohnUK89> Oh Gentoo...yeah in that case :P 18:25:17 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has joined #openttd 18:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> strange... i have a radeon 9700, downloaded the proprietary driver, and it Just Works (tm) 18:25:33 <MeusH> I see TGP doubles many already existing strings instead of using these 18:25:47 <MeusH> why is that? Are you preparing some lang cleanup? 18:25:54 <grimrc1> can't work out what that means Sacro 18:25:56 <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause, GeForce 6200 here...downloaded the proprietary nvidia driver, installed it, and my X server died 18:26:08 <JohnUK89> Ends up I had to disable the AGP modules 18:26:13 <JohnUK89> and use nvidia's own one 18:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> although my card dies if i use 3D functions... but that is a problem of the card, it was already under windows... 18:26:56 <JohnUK89> Mine works with full 3d acceleration now 18:27:03 <JohnUK89> But in PCI mode :-\ 18:27:08 <grimrc1> Eddi|zuHause: haha you call that "Just Works"? 18:27:14 <hylje> :o 18:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well... the driver works 18:27:42 <grimrc1> I think the open source driver supports 2D on new cards 18:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i suspect it is a cooling problem 18:28:01 <grimrc1> Eddi|zuHause: yeah probably; you should be able to get temperature data from the graphics card I think 18:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 3D works also, but only for a few seconds 18:28:26 * JohnUK89 buggers off to play UT2004 :P 18:28:52 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202.154.148.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:52 <grimrc1> actually maybe not 18:29:00 *** Rens2Intarweb [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't play 3D games that often anyway... 18:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> usually i watch TV 18:29:30 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:53 <RPGprayer> i think it's the other way around for me :/ 18:29:57 <grimrc1> heh 18:30:00 <RPGprayer> tv sucks anyway 18:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i recently discovered the "undocumented" video acceleration feature of the driver ;) 18:30:29 <JohnUK89> I recently discovered Xgl and compiz ;-) 18:30:43 <RPGprayer> o_O 18:30:44 <RPGprayer> compiz 18:30:45 <RPGprayer> lol 18:31:10 <JohnUK89> RPGprayer, you don't know what it is, you use Winblows :-D 18:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... KDE update... 300MB... 18:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna take a while... 18:31:25 <hylje> heheh 18:31:25 <JohnUK89> 200MB here 18:31:41 <Sacro> 0 here 18:31:53 <grimrc1> I can't find any documentation about using gnome-screensaver 18:31:58 <Mucht> compiled r5953 dedicated... 18:32:00 <Mucht> ./openttd -D 18:32:02 <Mucht> Error: Could not generate any town 18:32:04 <Mucht> oO 18:32:11 <Sacro> map size? 18:32:13 <Mucht> diff_custom = 0,3,1,2,500,4,2,2,0,0,0,1,7,0,0,1,0,0 18:32:15 <Mucht> 256x256 18:32:31 <Mucht> too small this mapsize? 18:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the TTD standard size, i think 18:33:11 <hylje> hehe 18:33:35 <Eddi|zuHause> can you reproduce? 18:33:40 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176105082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:33:44 <Mucht> I tried it 3 times in a row ;-) 18:33:53 <Mucht> dbg: Percent complete: 25 18:33:53 <Mucht> dbg: Percent complete: 30 18:33:54 <Mucht> dbg: Percent complete: 35 18:33:54 <Mucht> Error: Could not generate any town 18:33:56 *** orudge [~orudge@host81-132-175-237.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: reboot] 18:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> try the random seed in the scenario editor 18:34:49 <Mucht> erm what? 18:34:58 <Mucht> I see no .cfg setting for that? 18:36:14 <TrueLight> Mucht: need more info 18:36:18 <TrueLight> climate 18:36:25 <Mucht> normal 18:36:28 <hylje> :o 18:36:35 <TrueLight> TG generator? 18:36:39 <TrueLight> tree setting 18:36:44 <TrueLight> terrain setting (smoothness) 18:36:47 <Mucht> oO where to set that? 18:36:54 <TrueLight> via GUI 18:36:58 <TrueLight> or land_generator 18:36:59 <Mucht> haha 18:37:02 <TrueLight> and smoothness something 18:37:18 <Mucht> and how to on a dedicated server which doesn't start? 18:37:19 <TrueLight> or just give me an openttd.cfg 18:37:29 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6861.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:38:12 <TrueLight> because here it generates maps every single time 18:39:19 <Mucht> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/blog/2006/08/openttd.cfg 18:39:38 <TrueLight> RPGprayer: next time you call a commit message spam, you will be kicked 18:39:44 <TrueLight> (late responce, but okay) 18:40:16 <TrueLight> got the file, tnx 18:40:22 <TrueLight> works fine here 18:40:34 <TrueLight> every 18:40:35 <TrueLight> single 18:40:35 <TrueLight> time 18:40:39 <Mucht> wtf 18:40:41 <hylje> wtf 18:40:49 <TrueLight> revision 5953 18:40:53 <TrueLight> hylje: don't be a parrot 18:41:09 *** Wolf01|AFK is now known as Wolf01 18:41:13 <Mucht> wait 18:41:15 <hylje> :< 18:41:19 <Mucht> it didn't compile correctly :-/ 18:41:28 <TrueLight> Mucht: you do know the rcon password was in that file, right? 18:41:47 <TrueLight> and that blog site... that green on that orange/red hurts my eyes :( :( 18:41:55 <Mucht> its the coopetition server, we have to change it every time 18:42:02 <TrueLight> OwenS: got that savegame for me? 18:43:22 <GoneWacko> http://junk.gonewacko.com/city/isometric2.png 18:43:25 <GoneWacko> Yes, I was bored. 18:43:58 <GoneWacko> and thanks to the openttd source for being there to explain to me the best way to get rid of the blue ( http://junk.gonewakco.com/city/isometric1.png :p) 18:44:14 <TrueLight> pretty :) 18:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that last one has a typo 18:45:03 <GoneWacko> figuring out which tile the mouse is over is what got me the last time I tried this (in Delphi :p) 18:45:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and makes you crazy by looking at ;) 18:45:14 <GoneWacko> I don't expect it to be any easier 18:45:34 * XeryusTC slaps TrueLight, stop complaining about the blog, get busy with gpmi :D 18:45:51 <TrueLight> XeryusTC: it hurts my eyes 18:46:21 <Mucht> bla 18:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> GoneWacko: why is that a problem? as long as it is 2D, it's a simple coordinate transformation 18:46:40 <XeryusTC> more reason to start with gpmi, you don't need to look at it then :P 18:46:45 *** orudge [~orudge@host81-132-175-237.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:46:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 18:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets slightly more problematic, if you have different height levels 18:46:57 <TrueLight> Mucht: does it work when it did compile? 18:46:59 <GoneWacko> Eddi|zuHause: because I've not been able to figure it out before :p and I do mean to implement height levels, yes :p 18:47:06 <Mucht> TrueLight: working on it 18:47:18 <Mucht> had to revert etc 18:47:33 <TrueLight> local changes are never a good thing :) 18:47:45 *** Trenskow [~outlet@3e6b6861.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: http://iThought.dk/ ] 18:48:06 <Mucht> I know, I know.... 18:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> GoneWacko: you only need to remember that cos(30°)=0.8660 ... then all other calculations are trivial 18:48:47 <grimrc1> unbroked link: http://junk.gonewacko.com/city/isometric1.png 18:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's assuming you have the standard 30° isometric) 18:49:12 <hylje> :o 18:49:38 <GoneWacko> hrrm :p 18:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, 150MB down, 150MB to go 18:51:39 <TrueLight> for what? 18:51:46 <GoneWacko> porn! 18:52:06 <hylje> internet is for porn 18:52:34 <Kjetil> oh.. is it ? 18:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> KDE update ;) 18:52:46 <XeryusTC> internet is for playint OTTD MP 18:52:51 <XeryusTC> t=g 18:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ingernet? 18:53:12 <JohnUK89> playing 18:53:14 <JohnUK89> :) 18:53:21 <GoneWacko> ingering, it would be, then 18:53:25 <GoneWacko> Eddi|zuHause fails 18:53:29 <GoneWacko> wait 18:53:30 <GoneWacko> I fail 18:53:31 <GoneWacko> fuck :p 18:53:34 <grimrc1> does anybody know if Openttd tries to do any SDL tricks or other methods to stop a screensaver running (on Linux); gnome-screensaver seems to work fine with openttd running 18:53:45 <JohnUK89> It would be ingerneg GoneWacko 18:53:49 <GoneWacko> yes. 18:53:57 <XeryusTC> no it wont :P 18:54:55 *** Viper1 [~vitynar@ts1-a18.Surgut.dial.rol.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but ingereg sounds idiotic... 18:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> *ingerneg 19:00:14 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:00:24 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 19:00:49 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh] 19:01:16 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:01:19 *** matthias_87 [~mat@p50901F47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:01:27 <matthias_87> hello guys 19:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> see what you did? you killed the conversation ;) 19:06:12 <matthias_87> i see... i'm a killer 19:08:30 <Mucht> which could lead to another conversation 19:08:46 <izhirahider> I got a warning in latest svn 19:08:48 <izhirahider> player_gui.c: In function 'DrawPlayerEconomyStats': 19:08:48 <izhirahider> player_gui.c:47: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type 19:09:08 <izhirahider> gcc version 4.1.1 20060525 19:10:28 <Sacro> izhirahider: latest is not a version 19:11:26 <JohnUK89> izhirahider, you do realise that SVN isn't guaranteed to compile don't you? 19:11:29 *** RPGprayer [~rpgprayer@h15n1fls32o878.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:31 <izhirahider> At revision 5954. 19:11:36 <izhirahider> I forgot that 19:11:46 <Sacro> izhirahider: trunk? MiniIN? 19:11:57 <izhirahider> trunk 19:12:09 <izhirahider> it's just a warning 19:12:33 <Sacro> hmm 19:12:35 <JohnUK89> tried a different version of gcc? 19:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a warning is not something you can just ignore... 19:13:04 <grimrc1> izhirahider: I got the same warning I think 19:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> a warning is: "it is not forbidden to do this, but you probably wanted to do something else" 19:13:08 <Sacro> i ignore warning all the time 19:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "warning: do not put knife in your eyes" 19:13:48 <izhirahider> Eddi|zuHause, I'm just mentioning it because I don't know if there are developers that use gcc 4.1.1, which is known to cause more warnings than gcc 4.0.x :) 19:14:11 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: thats less of a warning, and more like COMMON SENSE 19:14:29 <Sacro> which seems to be missing nowadays :( 19:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> as it is COMMON SENSE to not assign incompatible types 19:14:37 <JohnUK89> Sacro, says you eh? ;-) 19:15:01 <Sacro> JohnUK89: meaning? 19:15:30 *** netgert [Gert@217-159-186-54-dsl.prn.estpak.ee] has quit [] 19:15:33 <JohnUK89> Bad attempt at a joke 19:15:43 <izhirahider> Please understand that I was just reporting it, nothing else. 19:15:44 <Sacro> yes you are :P 19:15:58 <JohnUK89> Oi! :P 19:16:24 <Sacro> anywho, im going out, bye! 19:16:30 <JohnUK89> Sacro, cya 19:16:30 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:37 <JohnUK89> Damnit >_< 19:19:23 <XeryusTC> is there anyone here that wants too coopete against Osai and Mucht? join #openttdcoop if you want too ;) 19:20:18 *** nlhans [~webroom@82-217-1-137.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:20:26 <Mucht> ah nlhans coming 19:20:46 <nlhans> ^^ 19:27:09 *** Zr40 [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:36:38 *** RPGprayer [~rpgprayer@h15n1fls32o878.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:42:26 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5955 /trunk/intro_gui.c (2006-08-19 19:45:04 UTC) 19:45:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix r5728: 2 very important lines for ShowQueryString where removed by excident. 19:45:10 <DorpsGek> Because of this you couldn't join servers with passwords, and more of those 19:45:12 <DorpsGek> problems. (tnx Mucht) 19:45:24 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 19:51:15 *** Guest56 [Gono@N879P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 19:52:40 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gono@N890P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:41 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:35 *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII 20:24:53 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 20:25:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5956 /website/ (4 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-19 20:25:19 UTC) 20:25:22 <DorpsGek> -Add: prepared the server-list for the upcoming network-info-version-3 (Rubidium) 20:27:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5957 /masterserver/ (misc.cpp misc.h udp.cpp) (2006-08-19 20:27:25 UTC) 20:27:29 <DorpsGek> -Add: prepared the masterserver for the upcoming network-info-version-3 (Rubidium) 20:28:38 *** MaulingMonkey [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:40 <TrueLight> Because of the last 2 commits, all servers not online show on the server-list ????-??-?? as game and start date 20:31:43 <TrueLight> nothing to worry about :) 20:33:27 <MaulingMonkey> Changing patch selections affects the game currently being run right? I'm trying to narrow down the cause of this Load Command + Feeders bug which causes my trains to partially unload at the station they're loading at in the past two games I've started, which I never noticed (but supposedly exists) in 0.4.7... 20:34:03 <MaulingMonkey> (and I'm hopelessly lost when it comes to OpenTTD's workings :P) 20:38:51 <MeusH> TrueLight, where can I find more info on network-info-version-3? 20:39:18 <TrueLight> MeusH: in the 2 patches :) Hehe! 20:39:32 <TrueLight> game_date and start_date are removed in v3 (the v2 ones) 20:39:48 <TrueLight> and 2 new, uint32 ones, are added at the start of the info in v3 20:41:05 <MeusH> what is the purpose of changing it? 20:41:21 <TrueLight> past2090 preperation 20:41:46 <RPGprayer> TrueLight: When will the nightly be finished, you think? 20:42:04 <TrueLight> RPGprayer: they are for 2 hours 20:42:06 <TrueLight> even more 20:42:28 <RPGprayer> TrueLight: Agh, you said 1œ 3 hrs ago 20:42:41 <RPGprayer> TrueLight: Hehe j/k :) 20:43:10 *** mikk36[EST] [~mikk36@pc187.host2.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 20:44:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5958 /masterserver/ (misc.h udp.cpp) (2006-08-19 20:44:02 UTC) 20:44:05 <DorpsGek> -Fix: OpenTTD said 15chars for revision, masterserver 10.. now they are both 15 20:45:01 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:48:05 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc75.host1.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:26 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:50:57 *** sayno [~sayno@ip67-88-107-227.z107-88-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:51:42 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 20:54:28 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-157.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 20:54:39 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:57:16 *** jonty-comp [~Jonty@88-107-59-161.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Au reviour!] 21:07:45 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 21:09:16 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.145.57] has joined #openttd 21:09:17 <Patrick`> if I made patches that were just extra comments, would they get accepted quickly and quietly? 21:09:26 <Patrick`> (assuming they were relevant) 21:10:37 <grimrc1> using SDL_WINDOWID you can embed openttd in another window; really strange feature of SDL! 21:11:14 <Patrick`> sounds cool 21:11:44 <grimrc1> try it; you need to use xwininfo to get the window ID of a running program (I used gcalctool); you need the hex number 21:13:35 <grimrc1> I'm trying to work out how to get openttd to work with gnome-screensaver; SDL programs won't work; I'm emerging xscreensaver now to see if that'll work 21:14:56 <Patrick`> hah, using openttd as a desktop background 21:15:13 <Patrick`> or automatically loading a little map and running it as a screensaver? 21:15:20 <grimrc1> yeah 21:15:21 <Patrick`> like the intro screen but without anything in the way 21:15:28 <TrueLight> soon I will have a tutorial alike feature 21:15:33 <TrueLight> so you can even make it move around :) 21:15:37 <MaulingMonkey> zlibstat.lib = static version of zlib? 21:15:41 <grimrc1> well! why stop there; get a console script to connect to a full network server 21:15:43 <Patrick`> TrueLight: awesome, I remember them from the original game 21:15:49 <Patrick`> grimrc1: no, bad idea 21:15:57 <Patrick`> eats bandwidth, isn't being looked at 21:15:57 <TrueLight> Patrick`: original game?! 21:16:15 <Patrick`> yeah, I have this TTD install somewhere with 4 tutorials 21:16:24 <TrueLight> did it had tutorials? 21:16:26 <Patrick`> where the mouse pointer moves around and builds simple routes for you 21:16:27 <TrueLight> never saw them 21:16:36 <grimrc1> Patrick`: what isn't being looked at? oh I don't mean a *full* full network server; I mean just join one with a space and spectate? 21:16:38 <Patrick`> however, the game didn't have the same random seed 21:16:47 <Patrick`> so occcasionally it would click on a newspaper about a subsidy 21:16:53 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-5440cd7c.wfd78a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:58 <Patrick`> and go off target and just waggle around in the middle of nowhere trying to build 21:17:06 <hylje> :< 21:17:19 <Patrick`> grimrc1: no, I mean it'd waste bandwidth and the results would probably not even be seen 21:17:26 <Patrick`> all the servers would end up full of screensavers 21:17:34 <grimrc1> suppose that's true 21:17:50 <grimrc1> they do have spectator spots though don't they? 21:18:07 <Patrick`> I guess so ... 21:18:11 <Patrick`> but still, bad idea 21:18:24 <grimrc1> you could do the same with quake as well 21:21:52 <Patrick`> TrueLight: the tutorial will need a visual cue when ctrl is held down 21:21:58 <Patrick`> it's an important aspect 21:22:43 <TrueLight> ? 21:22:53 <Patrick`> well, for signal types. 21:23:10 <Patrick`> I'm just saying what I found lacking in the original tutorial systems 21:23:15 <Patrick`> oh, and "left click, right click" 21:23:17 <TrueLight> I don't get what you say 21:23:27 <TrueLight> oh, I think I do 21:23:35 <TrueLight> yeah, it will contain many of such things 21:23:38 <Patrick`> something that appears on the screen when you play back a tutorial, that shows you what buttons and keys the recorder is doing 21:23:41 <TrueLight> and if not, there will be plenty time for you to tell me :p 21:24:00 <TrueLight> what I did for now, is to record mouse-movement 21:24:07 <TrueLight> I expected a big burst of data 21:24:13 <TrueLight> but I reduced it to a small amount 21:24:14 <Patrick`> it's a trickle really 21:24:16 <TrueLight> without you even noticing it 21:24:31 <TrueLight> The code to record commands is already there 21:24:42 <Patrick`> from the original? 21:24:43 <TrueLight> so now I just need to record key-input (mouse-input is mostly done) 21:24:48 <TrueLight> original? 21:24:53 <Patrick`> oh, sorry, you mean you've done it 21:25:00 <TrueLight> I made, more then a year ago, a demo-patch 21:25:04 <TrueLight> recorded games totally 21:25:06 <TrueLight> and could play them back 21:25:12 <Patrick`> what happened to it ... 21:25:13 <TrueLight> but it only recorded commands in OpenTTD 21:25:17 <TrueLight> so you had to scroll around 21:25:23 <Patrick`> aaaah 21:25:32 <Patrick`> now, that could be exploited. 21:25:35 <TrueLight> and Darkvater said tons of times he was going to commit it 21:25:37 <TrueLight> he never did :p 21:25:42 <Patrick`> level an area and say "build junction 7" 21:25:51 <Patrick`> this is, of course, a bad thing. 21:25:54 <TrueLight> so I took the dust off the patch, and improving it :) 21:25:58 <MeusH> TrueLight: when mouse moving, do you record each move (which is nice and detailed, but possibly eats lots of bytes), or you can select (with keyboard) which mouse states to load and mouse pointer will move straight line to that point in a given time? 21:26:00 <Patrick`> good good 21:26:01 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C09D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:13 <TrueLight> MeusH: it records movement 21:26:26 <TrueLight> Patrick`: playback means it loads the game attached to the demo 21:26:26 <Patrick`> MeusH: relatively it's not that much data 21:26:29 <TrueLight> so you can't exploit it 21:26:34 <Patrick`> try catting /dev/mouse some time 21:26:37 <Patrick`> or whatever it's called 21:26:41 <Patrick`> and move your mouse around 21:26:43 <MeusH> in each tick, or, say, each 10 ticks? 21:26:47 <Patrick`> it takes me maybe a minute to fill an 80x24 21:26:55 <Patrick`> that's a piffling amount of data 21:26:59 <TrueLight> Patrick`: I even record the position every X time 21:27:06 <TrueLight> I don't even check yet if it has the same value 21:27:06 <Patrick`> to synchronise 21:27:10 <TrueLight> even then, it is low on data 21:27:27 <Patrick`> record the position only at every click, it is important that those not be out of synch 21:27:36 <Patrick`> oh, and remember the random seed :) 21:28:06 <TrueLight> okay: 30ms for a tick 21:28:26 <TrueLight> every 30ms I record the position (slightly less then what OpenTTD normally does, but still below the human-eye-refresh) 21:28:34 <TrueLight> makes 30 records every second 21:28:38 <TrueLight> each taking 4 bytes 21:28:40 <TrueLight> 120 bytes a second 21:28:47 <grimrc1> what about inferring the mouse position later from the events recorded and interpolating mouse positions in-between? 21:28:47 <TrueLight> 8k every minute 21:28:50 <TrueLight> just no data at all 21:28:54 <Patrick`> yes, it's absolutely trivial amounts 21:28:56 <TrueLight> why? :) 21:28:59 <Patrick`> we're so used to things taking a lot 21:29:02 <TrueLight> for that 8k of data? :) 21:29:22 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-514f4fe6.l3.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:29:23 <grimrc1> just for elegance heh 21:29:24 <Patrick`> that's up to screen resolutions of 2**16 :P 21:29:39 <Patrick`> there's literally no need to optimise something like that 21:29:49 <MeusH> oh yeah, TrueLight, how about handling different resolutions? 21:30:01 <TrueLight> the real problem comes with those things 21:30:05 <TrueLight> I record at 640x480 21:30:10 <TrueLight> and playback at 10000x10000 21:30:13 <TrueLight> where do you click :) 21:30:24 <Patrick`> relative to camera position 21:30:37 <Patrick`> so that if the screen is too small, you miss events off the edges 21:30:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by glx :: r5959 /trunk/genworld_gui.c (2006-08-19 21:30:40 UTC) 21:30:43 <DorpsGek> -Change: size selection dropdowns placement in 'Scenario type' window 21:31:01 <Patrick`> or, the mouse makes the screen move if it touches the edges 21:31:10 <MeusH> TrueLight: you shall also keep in mind that some people may have "pan window when mouse is close to edge", and others may have the toolbar on the right side instead of the left/center 21:31:15 <hylje> i'd say that the mouse has a start position and moves from it 21:31:32 <TrueLight> MeusH: remind me again when I am done :) 21:31:33 <hylje> in demo mode scroll the camera when the mouse approaches edge 21:31:35 <Patrick`> just reset all of those 21:31:44 <TrueLight> it shouldn't be any problem 21:31:45 <Patrick`> anyway, it's far from done, he says 21:31:58 <TrueLight> far is a big word 21:32:00 <TrueLight> bu tI just started yes 21:32:25 <Patrick`> anyway, who should I bug about my patch? 21:32:30 <Patrick`> or is there a queue 21:32:37 <TrueLight> there is always a queue :p 21:32:40 <TrueLight> today I won't help you 21:32:43 <TrueLight> maybe tomorrow :) 21:32:47 <MeusH> TrueLight: It may mean a total rewrite of your patch, but IMO it would be worth it - do not store all mouse moves, especially positions of clicks. How about storing an ID of clicked widget? 21:33:02 <Patrick`> (it's just a little one, but it'd be nice to get *something* into *some* OSS project other than the one I started myself that has like 2 users and one of them is me 21:33:06 <TrueLight> MeusH: why? 21:33:06 <MeusH> with stored ID of widget, there won't be problem with different resolutions 21:33:10 <glx> Patrick`: is it submitted in http://bugs.openttd.org ? 21:33:12 <TrueLight> true 21:33:15 <TrueLight> and I maybe switch to that 21:33:18 <TrueLight> if I can't fix this nicely :) 21:33:21 <Patrick`> glx: it's in flyspray as "request for comment" 21:33:34 <Patrick`> technically it's an enhancement 21:33:36 <TrueLight> MeusH: it might be a very good idea 21:33:38 <TrueLight> dunno yet 21:33:39 <MeusH> Mouse would just "go to widget #13", "left-click", "go to blah blah" 21:33:43 <TrueLight> next week I look back into it :) 21:33:49 <Patrick`> so, um, yes, it's in bugs.openttd.org 21:33:50 <MeusH> instead of "go to 700x300" 21:34:36 <Patrick`> we can brainstorm now and then let you cherry-pick what you like the look of 21:35:37 *** RPGprayer [~rpgprayer@h15n1fls32o878.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:11 <Patrick`> MeusH: what about construction though 21:36:17 <Patrick`> you could do it on a per-tile coordinate basis 21:36:48 <Patrick`> it's actually a whole lot easier just to do it relative to the camera center and limit the window size to at *least* 640x480 21:36:51 <MeusH> go to tile 7245 21:37:09 <Patrick`> argh ... new windows open dependant on the size 21:37:16 <MeusH> click on it's 13thx8th pixel 21:37:20 <Patrick`> but limiting it to the same resolution as the recorder is a flaw 21:37:31 <Patrick`> it wasn't an issue in the original game because the screen res was always the same 21:37:44 <MeusH> Remember that tiles have fixed sizes on all resolutions 21:38:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5960 /website/ottd_update.php (2006-08-19 21:38:07 UTC) 21:38:11 <DorpsGek> -Fix: fine-tuned the server-list update-script a bit, it performs better now 21:38:13 <Patrick`> and the widget IDs will always be the same? 21:38:17 <MeusH> so it's all about storing TileIndex and x and y of clicked pixel of the tile (for diagonal rails) 21:38:27 <Patrick`> naah, too fiddly 21:38:38 <MeusH> Patrick`, well, this may be a problem 21:38:41 <Patrick`> better to just simplify, raise up, and do as little intra-client hacking 21:38:48 <Patrick`> (as possible 21:38:54 <MeusH> Let's say these will be the same 21:39:07 <MeusH> and let's blame patchers who change widget stuff and kill the demo 21:39:15 <MeusH> anyway, demo file should be easily editable 21:39:17 <Patrick`> :P 21:39:19 <TrueLight> don't worry about cross-revisions 21:39:25 <TrueLight> with new revisions demos WILL break 21:39:29 <TrueLight> nothing you can do about that 21:39:31 <Patrick`> yes, you can always just get me to re-record them :P 21:39:32 <Patrick`> gee, thanks 21:39:40 <MeusH> so a dev may change "widget 20" to "widget 21" if he knows where to look 21:39:43 <Patrick`> maybe only for each major release 21:39:48 <TrueLight> (e.g., a command is changed in his action... shit happens :p) 21:40:55 <MeusH> lol the original map generator is awful 21:41:01 <MeusH> goodbye rectangular lakes :P 21:41:27 <Patrick`> it's authentic 21:41:42 <Patrick`> I kinda liked the one-tile valleys where they go along and then go diagonal 21:41:56 <Rubidium> Yup, with TGP you really notice how 'bad' the original landscape was 21:41:56 <Patrick`> trying to get flat land with no water was bloody impossible though 21:42:50 <grimrc1> tehehe xscreensaver FAQ: "However, the recommended fix is that you turn over the cushions in your couch, collect the spare change you find, and once you've come up with , spend it on a video card that was manufactured after 1998." 21:43:11 <Patrick`> man, I love the open source mentality 21:43:27 <grimrc1> yeah the attitude's not right; some hardware can not be replaced 21:43:27 <Patrick`> the ssh key generator gui in ubuntu: "we need a source of entropy. please bang on your keyboard like a monkey." 21:43:43 <grimrc1> Patrick`: really!? 21:43:49 <Patrick`> it might not be ubuntu 21:43:51 <Patrick`> but it's some distro 21:43:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5961 /website/includes/openttd.inc.php (2006-08-19 21:43:50 UTC) 21:43:53 <DorpsGek> -Fix: off-by-one error for non-leap years (Rubidium) 21:44:00 <grimrc1> Patrick`: that's a joke though right?? 21:44:05 <Patrick`> dunno 21:44:12 <Patrick`> probably, i heard it second-hand 21:44:20 <grimrc1> I hope so; /dev/(u?)random is better than that 21:44:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by truelight :: r5962 /masterserver/ (misc.cpp udp.cpp) (2006-08-19 21:44:20 UTC) 21:44:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix: off-by-one error for non-leap years (Rubidium) 21:44:36 <Patrick`> grimrc1: random doesn't contain nearly enough entropic bits 21:44:43 <StarLite> C++, where friends have access to your private members. 21:44:43 <StarLite> :D 21:44:46 <Patrick`> and all those entropic bits come from user input anyway 21:44:50 <grimrc1> Patrick`: and a keyboard does?? 21:44:53 <Patrick`> yes. 21:45:01 <Patrick`> humans are uniquely unpredictable. 21:45:12 <grimrc1> the Linux random device has been carefully designed though 21:45:13 <Patrick`> the small bits of the intervals between keypresses are a perfect source of entropy 21:45:32 <Patrick`> I've also seen mouse wiggling used. 21:45:39 <grimrc1> and it probably uses the previous keypresses and mouse movements 21:45:41 <Patrick`> either way, it's cryptographically Random and not guessable. 21:45:44 <grimrc1> maybe it's for Windows 21:45:49 <Patrick`> no, this was on linux 21:46:43 <Patrick`> lets' say you measure someone's typing and it goes like, 20.76ms to press one key, then 8.94ms to the next one 21:46:59 <Patrick`> 7694, there's your random number 21:47:45 <grimrc1> but on the other hand the Linux random device collects much more entropy data and is less of an inconvenience 21:47:54 <Patrick`> not really. 21:48:12 <Patrick`> right now, I've not been doing any random things 21:48:20 <Patrick`> I'll exhaust my random cache, see how much was in it 21:48:29 <grimrc1> 'random cache'? 21:48:42 <Patrick`> 449 bytes 21:48:46 <Patrick`> /dev/random 21:48:47 *** sayno [~sayno@ip67-88-107-227.z107-88-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #openttd 21:48:50 <Patrick`> has a small anount of entropy 21:48:56 <Patrick`> and it's only growing back as I type into ssh :) 21:48:59 <grimrc1> how did you measure it? 21:49:13 <Patrick`> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/null 21:49:14 <grimrc1> oh that's the random device exposed by ssh? 21:49:19 <Patrick`> no. 21:49:24 <Patrick`> dd will block when the file is empty 21:49:30 <Patrick`> so I just ctrl-c out after a few seconds 21:49:38 <Patrick`> and it says 449 bytes transferred 21:49:53 <grimrc1> 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 7.7832 seconds, 0.0 kB/s 21:49:55 <grimrc1> ?? 21:50:17 <Patrick`> yeah, means you've already run out of entropy 21:50:27 <grimrc1> OMG what's going on!? 21:50:32 <hylje> omg! 21:50:33 <Patrick`> anyway, ask wp 21:50:36 <grimrc1> heh 21:50:36 <Patrick`> I have tv to watch 21:50:44 <grimrc1> well urandom works 21:50:58 <Patrick`> urandom is pseudorandom 21:51:06 <grimrc1> good enough for me 21:51:06 <Patrick`> designed for lots of use 21:51:15 <Patrick`> the sort of thing you use to shred files 21:51:24 <Patrick`> or anything that's not mil-spec crypto 21:51:28 <grimrc1> the sort of thing *I* use for everything 21:51:34 <Patrick`> yeha 21:51:36 <grimrc1> heh 21:51:55 <Patrick`> random is guaranteed to be genuinely random data 21:52:09 <grimrc1> ohh 21:52:11 <grimrc1> cool 21:52:40 <Patrick`> it's carefully harvested from events that originate from either humans or quantum uncertainty 21:52:49 <TrueLight> humans and random isn't a match 21:52:54 <TrueLight> never is, never was, never will be 21:52:56 <grimrc1> yeah; but humans is controversial 21:52:57 <TrueLight> a human is far from random 21:53:08 <Patrick`> ok then, tell me how many fractions of a millisecond there are between my keypresses 21:53:11 <JohnUK89> humans are very well structured, anything with structure cannot be random 21:53:24 <grimrc1> fractions of a millisecond!? - not many 21:53:27 <TrueLight> Patrick`: okay, let me rephrase: a human entering numbers 21:53:27 <Patrick`> with enough accurracy to crack my ssh key which I generated using those millisecond 21:53:31 <Patrick`> no, no, no 21:53:38 <Patrick`> humans typing in numbers is not random 21:53:43 <Patrick`> timed events originating in a brain 21:53:56 <TrueLight> and for the rest is matters a lot what kind of random you want/need 21:54:01 <TrueLight> one that covers all the numbers in the end 21:54:11 <TrueLight> or one that doesn't mind that 21:54:25 <Patrick`> that's why there's random and urandom 21:54:27 <JohnUK89> The human brain cannot create truly random data on its own 21:54:28 <TrueLight> For the last, the best one I found, is just noise via an attenna 21:54:49 <Patrick`> JohnUK89: that's asinine 21:54:53 <Patrick`> watch an EEG. 21:54:56 <JohnUK89> :P 21:54:59 <Patrick`> does that look predictable? 21:54:59 <grimrc1> cosmic background radiation? 21:55:04 <Patrick`> the little fluctuations? 21:55:12 <TrueLight> grimrc1: exactly :) 21:55:14 <JohnUK89> Patrick`, but is it TRULY random? 21:55:18 <Patrick`> randomness is a big science and I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about 21:55:22 <JohnUK89> Or just pseudorandom? 21:55:27 <TrueLight> although CMB (Cosmic Background Radiation) isn't really random :) 21:55:30 <Patrick`> but smarter people than I know, and they've done the hard work 21:55:38 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:40 <grimrc1> TrueLight: sure it's not bird poo on your antenna? that's what the scientists thought it was at first 21:55:46 <Patrick`> presumeably, if Genuinely Random Data was easy to find then there would be more than 500 bytes of it available 21:55:50 <TrueLight> I know I know 21:56:41 <grimrc1> Patrick`: yeah I get all the urandom vs random stuff, but why are people so hysterical about it? would be solid to crack good urandom 21:57:05 <grimrc1> s/solid/impossible 21:57:11 <Patrick`> no. 21:57:13 <Patrick`> just difficult 21:57:15 <Patrick`> but possible 21:57:27 <TrueLight> "The impossible just takes a little bit longer" 21:57:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:57:39 <grimrc1> doesn't urandom harvest entropy from keyboards and mice too? 21:57:39 <TrueLight> (quote from a big guy at MIT) 21:57:44 <Patrick`> I know security researchers, they make me paranoid 21:57:54 <grimrc1> heh 21:57:58 <Patrick`> grimrc1: urandom doesn't block by just hashing its own output to make more 21:58:20 <Patrick`> there are guys who write drivers to make the memory in computers be constantly moved around 21:58:24 <grimrc1> yeah; but how dangerous is that really going to be? particularly if you use it sparingly 21:58:28 <Patrick`> because a source of hard radiation can burn in the bits 21:58:36 <Patrick`> so that you can take the machine apart and read what was in the RAM 21:58:40 <Patrick`> this is stuff that really happens 21:58:46 <grimrc1> wow that's interesting 21:58:52 <Patrick`> :P 21:58:57 <grimrc1> not heard that one before 21:59:09 <grimrc1> isn't the tinfoil enough? 21:59:22 <Patrick`> there are people whos job it is to be paranoid and skilled 21:59:30 <Patrick`> and assume bad people just as skilled as them exist. 22:01:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:21 <grimrc1> wonder if xscreensaver will work with SDL 22:02:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:36 <GoneWacko> I've been wondering how hard it would be to make bitlbee listen to songtitle changes in mpd and set those in the MSN personal message thing 22:04:58 <Patrick`> the personal message thing needs a custom branch 22:05:09 <Patrick`> all the rest is clientside scripting 22:05:42 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:05:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host196-159.pool8256.interbusiness.it] has quit [Quit: e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro] 22:07:02 <Nigel> how often are the MiniIN's built? 22:07:13 <glx> twice a week 22:07:14 <MaulingMonkey> Aha, I think I've figured this bug out! Now all I have to do is figure out how to patch it :( 22:07:45 <Nigel> werid, because the latest i can find is 11 Aug, but oh well 22:08:10 <Nigel> i think i might just build myself 22:08:11 <TrueLight> 11 Aug are latest 22:08:22 <matthias_87> can someone look at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=26919 and say something about it 22:08:31 <TrueLight> you might have noticed too, that since then, no commits have been done :p 22:08:52 <TrueLight> so building it yourself will result in the same binary 22:09:06 <Nigel> TrueLight, yes, i was unaware of the SVN revision 22:10:16 <Patrick`> matthias_87: what do you mean, "something" ? 22:11:51 <grimrc1> he means: "something about it" 22:11:57 <grimrc1> I've said it now 22:12:13 *** nlhans [~webroom@82-217-1-137.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [] 22:12:17 <matthias_87> yes that I mean 22:22:00 <JohnUK89> Hmm this is strange...I appear to be able to download a file using wget, but downloading the same file using a package configuring script fails 22:23:13 *** Progman [~progman@p5091F7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:05 <Bengoz> Are there any plans to integrate more patches to trunk, or do we have to just keep playing with MiniIn? 22:26:56 <Patrick`> ooh, miniIN 22:26:59 <Patrick`> they'll take my patch 22:27:02 <Patrick`> they take ANYTHING 22:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> not all patches in miniin are meant to be included in trunk 22:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but trunk will get some more features before 0.5 22:29:04 <Bengoz> for example, there are some newgrf support patches 22:29:31 * MeusH thinks about semaphores before certain date by default... 22:29:41 <MeusH> why not to just commit it? 22:29:45 <MeusH> it is small and all 22:29:49 <MeusH> but it's great! 22:30:01 <JohnUK89> MeusH, why not disable electric signals before said date? 22:30:20 <Bengoz> and isn't subsidiaries patch ready to include already to 0.5? it's roadmapped to 0.6.. 22:30:26 <MeusH> well some may like electric signals 22:30:30 <TrueLight> night all 22:30:34 <MeusH> but it would resemble to original game 22:30:37 <MeusH> goodnight TrueLight 22:31:51 <Mucht> thx for the fix TrueLight 22:31:55 <Mucht> gn 22:32:01 * JohnUK89 is now annoyed 22:34:06 <MeusH> Why are you annoyed JohnUK89? 22:34:58 <JohnUK89> MeusH, I spent an age downloading a package, only for the configuration to fail when it tried to download more stuff...fucking sourceforge 22:35:20 <MeusH> whoops 22:35:22 <MeusH> I hate that 22:40:22 <grimrc1> xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver don't capture openttd's graphics output; same with sdljump (another sdl game); sdl programs do take a while to start, but I doubt that's the problem 22:53:07 *** sayno [~sayno@ip67-88-107-227.z107-88-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:54:00 *** john__ [~john@149.254.200.215] has joined #openttd 22:54:14 *** JohnUK89 [~john@149.254.200.215] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john__))] 22:54:18 *** john__ is now known as JohnUK89 22:57:32 <MeusH> hey hey developers... why not to take a look at http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php?title=Why-nots ? 22:57:34 <MeusH> bye 22:57:35 <MeusH> goodnight 22:57:47 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit] 22:59:07 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:02 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202.154.145.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:59 <Bjarni> <Procyan> is there like 1 person on earth that knows tcl/tk and is writing all of the apps? 23:04:00 <Bjarni> <unSlider> procyan: no, there are a bunch of people who dont know tcl/tk but are writing apps for it anyway 23:04:15 <Bjarni> why does that one have TrueLight written all over it? 23:04:26 <Bjarni> :P 23:04:45 *** exe [~dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 23:05:58 <Naksu> hey, it's true 23:06:34 <Naksu> i dont know any tcl yet i wrote multiple scripts back when i ran a small botservice :) 23:06:59 <Patrick`> so, how do I get a (small) patch into miniIN? 23:07:54 <Naksu> Patrick`: first, you must appease the gods of unstable branches 23:08:01 <Patrick`> huzzah 23:08:10 <Naksu> then, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... WITH A HERRING 23:08:15 <Naksu> ??? 23:08:16 <Naksu> profit 23:08:30 <Naksu> (sorry) 23:09:14 <Patrick`> lawl. 23:09:27 <Patrick`> it's only like 9 lines. 23:09:31 <Patrick`> I don't really care 23:09:51 <Bjarni> what is the bug? 23:09:55 <Bjarni> err, patch? 23:10:02 <Patrick`> adds "very low" industry density 23:10:06 <Patrick`> for those giant maps 23:10:08 <Bjarni> and is it buggy? :) 23:10:17 <Naksu> it makes all ui windows green on saint pat's day 23:10:18 <Patrick`> I don't see how. 23:10:25 <Patrick`> it adds a new string though 23:10:51 <Naksu> Patrick`: then it must be vetted by the new features quality assurance triumvirate 23:11:22 <Patrick`> oh, there is one bug to do with text spilling out of a widget on the terragenesis panel 23:11:27 <Patrick`> but that's layout 23:11:40 <Patrick`> I tried to fix it but that entire panel is a mess 23:11:42 <Patrick`> (no offense) 23:15:28 <MaulingMonkey> Mmmph. Is there some bit of code that's run the first tick a train enters the station? 23:15:46 <Rubidium> Patrick`: that is know; Belugas is writing fixes for that in his XTDwidget branch (basically extending the widgetlimit with respect to clicked/disabled states) 23:15:55 <Patrick`> cool. 23:16:00 <Patrick`> so I don't need to worry about that 23:16:03 <Bjarni> <Naksu> i dont know any tcl yet i wrote multiple scripts back when i ran a small botservice :) <-- that sounds like my encounter with SML. I started editing code for it before I even knew what language it was. I just looked at it and picked up the idea and symtax 23:16:12 <Bjarni> it ended up working... somehow 23:16:19 <Rubidium> well, it should just work fine if you're only adding strings 23:16:46 <Patrick`> yeah 23:16:49 <Patrick`> it's in a dropdown selector 23:17:55 <Naksu> Bjarni: i also did extensive eScript-scripting for POL (an UO server emulator) and the only way to learn it is by reading the code and quessing :) 23:18:17 <glx> Patrick`: your patch need to be safe for older savegames 23:18:58 <Patrick`> glx: well, it's safea 23:19:09 <Patrick`> it's just a bit blipp 23:19:14 <Naksu> also, the eScript compiler gave the best compiler error messages 23:19:24 <Patrick`> it won't take anything out of range... I don't know how to fix it though 23:19:34 <Patrick`> perhaps a specific converter for older savegames? 23:19:37 <Bjarni> Naksu: SML is function orientated. In scripting/coding, you write how to do stuff (a = func), but in SML, you write what to do, not how to do it 23:19:47 <Bjarni> very different and confusing at first 23:19:57 <glx> Patrick`: yes a savegame version bump, and on load converter 23:20:14 <Patrick`> ah, a version bump for something so small 23:20:27 <Naksu> "Your syntax frightens and confuses me." and "WAAHHH!" are two things i never want to see a compiler say 23:20:35 <Patrick`> it doesn't actually need a version bump 23:20:43 <Naksu> luckily those two were very rare 23:20:58 <Patrick`> oh, sorry, it does 23:21:05 <Patrick`> damnnit ... such a simple patch 23:21:21 <glx> yeah playing with settings is a pain :) 23:21:34 <Patrick`> hmm 23:21:38 <Bjarni> <Pikapi> but microsoft doesn't sell windows for macintosh? <-- LOL 23:21:53 <Patrick`> Bjarni: they don't forbid installs on mac hardware 23:21:55 <Bjarni> except now it's true for XP SP2 and MacIntels 23:21:59 <Patrick`> (intel macs) 23:22:14 <Bjarni> this quote predates MacIntels 23:22:23 <Patrick`> glx: so is it even worth it? what would you recommend I do 23:22:27 <Patrick`> to see if people care enough 23:22:35 <Bjarni> in short: they don't make windows for big endian systems 23:24:30 <JohnUK89> Isn't ARM big-endian? 23:24:38 <JohnUK89> They make Windows Mobile for that :-D 23:24:43 <Patrick`> ooh, snap 23:24:43 *** Dred_furst [~Dred.furs@user-514f4fe6.l3.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:46 <Patrick`> the guy has a point 23:24:54 <Naksu> it's a windows in name only i believe 23:25:26 <JohnUK89> They also make Windows XP Embedded... 23:25:45 <Naksu> JohnUK89: which is meant for tablet pcs 23:26:00 <JohnUK89> Yeah...small endian...lol 23:26:34 <JohnUK89> small = little or whatever the term is :) 23:27:13 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 23:27:31 <glx> Patrick`: it's impossible to know what was the meaning of the difficulty value without a bump 23:27:34 <Naksu> one thing i liked in escript was foreach() 23:27:50 <glx> Patrick`: maybe someone else will have an idea 23:28:01 <Patrick`> glx: true. 23:28:27 <Patrick`> I feel like a bump isn't worth it 23:28:37 <Patrick`> for such a small patch in terms of functionality as well as code 23:29:44 <Rubidium> Patrick`: another option is to 'misuse' someone else's savegame bump, so your using a savegame bump, but you're actually not doing it 23:30:23 <Patrick`> yeah 23:30:28 <Patrick`> but synchronising it will be hard 23:30:34 *** webfreakz [~Ronald@195.73.147.226] has left #openttd [] 23:30:36 <Patrick`> and even still there's no guarantee it'd get committed 23:30:51 <Patrick`> for such a small patch though ... and I don't think anyone would argue it's *bad* 23:30:59 <Patrick`> still, I got some practice in the code 23:31:16 <Patrick`> what's the default behaviour on load when a value is out of range? 23:31:20 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@p54B36845.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:31:22 <glx> it's easier to add a value than insert one 23:31:41 <Patrick`> yeah, this had to be sequentially in the position it's in :/ 23:32:16 <Patrick`> or ... maybe ... 23:32:27 <Patrick`> no, won't work 23:33:45 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 23:34:25 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai^zZz 23:37:47 *** Osai [~Osai@p54B376DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp83-237-234-163.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:44 *** Bengoz [~sasa@kl-hki-feb0dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:49:21 *** WolfAngel [~wolfangel@83.72.164.148.ip.tele2adsl.dk] has quit [Quit: I'm Gone] 23:52:35 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-152-32.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:56:04 <JohnUK89> Oh Noes! 23:57:17 *** grimrc1 [~grimrc@spc3-stkp5-0-0-cust362.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:57:22 <grimrc1> rehi all 23:57:36 <grimrc1> radeonfb crash 23:58:03 <Patrick`> you were gone? 23:58:13 <Patrick`> (burn) 23:59:07 <grimrc1> I think I know how to get openttd to run as a screensaver; you just use SDL_WINDOWID env variable; the annoying part is getting hold of the windowid for the current root window (virtual root window) when xscreensaver is running; anybody happen to know of a utility that'll print that out to stdout or something?