Log for #openttd on 26th August 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:08  <roboboy> heh
00:00:12  <JohnUK89> Sacro: I need
00:00:19  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: possibly but unlikely; it depends what Partition Magic was trying to do; if you use a Linux LiveCD or rescue disk, you can run fdisk -l to see if you can still find the partitions (depends how broken the partition table is) - you can also use gpart (that searches the disk for partitions - not infallible though)
00:00:20  <roboboy> i have 98 and linux on this pc
00:00:21  <JohnUK89> I'm in a Live For Speed league
00:00:23  <Sacro> JohnUK89: lies
00:00:46  <JohnUK89> And Cedega knocks about 50 frames off :P
00:01:00  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: fdisk just crashed lol
00:01:09  <JohnUK89> Sacro: no lies here
00:01:14  * roboboy breakfast
00:01:16  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: seriously!?  not DOS fdisk, linux fdisk
00:01:30  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: yeah, I booted off a rescue disc
00:01:31  <Sacro> cfdisk!
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00:01:40  <grimrc1> oh I meant parted actually - that's the one I prefer
00:01:45  <grimrc1> GNU parted
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00:02:20  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: that detected the partition, but couldn't do anything with it...couldn't mount or anything
00:02:24  <grimrc1> anybody know the answer to my dirty display function question?
00:02:55  <JohnUK89> chucked it through e2fsck too, no help from that
00:03:21  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: I mean the command line GNU parted under Linux; then manually mount the partitions, then run grub again with the right settings; the very buggy Gentoo LiveCD installer buggered up my partition table several times hehe
00:03:44  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: I know, the thing wouldn't mount
00:03:53  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: sounds like it was badly messed up then
00:04:00  <JohnUK89> Yeah lol
00:04:08  <JohnUK89> Strangely all it took was a re-install
00:04:14  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: did you use an old Partition Magic?
00:04:39  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: I used 8
00:04:54  <grimrc1> is that old?
00:05:11  <JohnUK89> All I actually did was shrink one of my NTFS partitions though, I can't see how that could have killed my ext2 partition...
00:05:24  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: nope, latest version IIRC
00:06:23  <Sacro> gnar
00:07:29  <grimrc1> oh btw, you can back up your partition table by dd if=/dev/hda of=/home/myusername/mbr.backup bs=512 count=1, but don't get the if= of= bits mixed up or you could accidentally overwrite it or something
00:07:45  <grimrc1> the first 512 bytes
00:07:59  <JohnUK89> Yeah
00:08:09  <grimrc1> heard that tip somewhere
00:08:37  <JohnUK89> copied :)
00:09:45  <Sacro> JohnUK89: cat /dev/hda > /dev/dsp
00:09:51  <Sacro> and then record it to mp3
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00:10:06  <JohnUK89> Sacro: no thanks ;-)
00:10:16  <Sacro> :(
00:10:48  <Sacro> ooh, linux is 15
00:10:56  <grimrc1> hehe
00:10:59  <JohnUK89> Sacro: it is ;-)
00:11:17  <grimrc1> is a MarkWholeScreenDirty() inside a case WE_PAINT: safe?  it's making me nervous
00:12:51  <Sacro> rofl
00:12:59  <Sacro> grimrc1: yeah its safe
00:13:23  <grimrc1> yeah; doesn't use any extra CPU time hehe
00:13:44  <grimrc1> hehehe
00:14:07  <grimrc1> he must not mean qwerty
00:14:17  <Sacro> no...think he does
00:15:16  <grimrc1> the weird thing is, drawsprite()s don't get actually drawn till the screen's marked dirty!?
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00:34:26  <Belugas_Gone> ln- ping
00:37:34  * Belugas_Gone mumbles fumbles rumblesv
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00:43:22  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	rofl <-- hahahaha
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00:49:34  <Bjarni> <-- they temporary shut down a mail server at uni due to a case like this
00:50:21  <Bjarni> it was a mailinglist, that sent out to 4 people and one of them had a server on the intranet, but it was down, so it instantly replied that it didn't work... that came out on the mailinglist
00:50:34  <Bjarni> talk about fast loop
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00:53:58  <Belugas_Gone> event loop
00:54:03  <Belugas_Gone> that wouls be good
00:54:11  <Belugas_Gone> fast even loop :)
00:54:35  <Belugas_Gone> or maybe...
00:54:50  <Belugas_Gone> a fifo list?
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00:55:56  <Bjarni> that list just send out emails as it got them
00:56:17  <Bjarni> and it had 100 mb (or maybe even more) connection between the servers
00:56:42  <Belugas_Gone> my list will keep clicked events up until they are dispatched ;)
00:57:07  <Bjarni> what list?
00:57:17  <Belugas_Gone> 100mb... that is quite a pipeline :)
00:57:34  <Belugas_Gone> circular list, handling mouse click events
00:57:36  <Bjarni> I meant 100 mb/s bandwidth
00:57:45  <Belugas_Gone> me too, Bjarni :)
00:57:55  <Belugas_Gone> anyway, going to sleep
00:58:02  <Bjarni> btw I just finished my list of vehicles with the same shared orders
00:58:17  <Bjarni> will show it to people tomorrow
00:58:18  <Belugas_Gone> ? ho?
00:58:22  * Belugas_Gone is awake now
00:58:38  <Belugas_Gone> will not be there tomorrow :(
00:59:00  <Belugas_Gone> goofd night
00:59:08  <Bjarni> <-- rewrite of that patch
01:03:25  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: looks good to me :)
01:03:55  <Bjarni> that was before the rewrite
01:04:12  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: yeah, but it looks the same still?
01:04:19  <Bjarni> almost
01:04:55  <Bjarni> I removed the stuff about profit as it looks ok (didn't look closely at it), but I feel that it should be a patch of it's own
01:05:32  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: aah right, still a nice patch :)
01:05:39  <Bjarni> I also removed the two buttons as they made no sense there. Now they are blank and waiting for me to code a "send all vehicles in list to depot" feature
01:06:03  <JohnUK89> Yeah
01:06:29  <JohnUK89> Unless you could make the New Vehicles button create trains with the same orders?
01:06:49  <Bjarni> let me think about that one
01:07:06  * JohnUK89 waits for a no
01:07:07  <Bjarni> I don't think I can do it, but I tend to be creative when I hit limitations
01:07:36  <Bjarni> if I can't then it's because I hit a limitation in the game so nobody can do it
01:07:49  <JohnUK89> Yeah, worth a look at if you ask me
01:08:29  <JohnUK89> Right, I'll brb
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01:10:58  <grimrc1> I can't tell what's different
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01:12:28  <grimrc1> when's the next release going to be?
01:13:43  <Bjarni> when it's ready
01:14:17  <Bjarni> I bet you didn't expect that answer :p
01:14:17  <grimrc1> oh; is a svn state just tagged?
01:14:36  <grimrc1> Bjarni: I didn't expect it, but lots of projects say that
01:15:11  <grimrc1> will we get notice that a release is coming really soon, coz I'm working on a patch atm
01:15:22  <Bjarni> the last time we set a date for a release, we decided on a week into the future and got a month overdue
01:15:55  <Bjarni> it's more likely that it will take say at least two months
01:16:16  <Bjarni> the next release got a roadmap with some major patches, that aren't done yet
01:16:28  <grimrc1> Bjarni: so nothing to worry about then
01:16:45  <grimrc1> a week is a *harsh* time-scale
01:17:03  <grimrc1> I mean for people who are working on pet projects
01:17:51  <grimrc1> oh btw, do you think I should use the (ANSI) clock() function to measure time with more resolution than 1 second?
01:19:35  <Bjarni> when we set the one week timeline, we thought it was ok as virtually nothing should be done. It was checking if there was any unknown bugs in the code (more or less)
01:20:27  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	oh btw, do you think I should use the (ANSI) clock() function to measure time with more resolution than 1 second? <-- there is the timer function where you can measure cycles if you are going to optimise the code
01:23:58  <grimrc1> Bjarni: oh no; I just want to make a little GUI effect that lasts less than a few seconds
01:24:27  <grimrc1> I want the 'Openttd' banner to roll on when in screensaver mode
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01:27:39  <grimrc1> oh clock() isn't a very good way to measure time either; maybe there's an SDL function?
01:27:59  <Bjarni>  hmm
01:28:23  <Bjarni> I can't say that I have any idea on how to solve that one
01:28:35  <Bjarni> apart from using game ticks to calculate movement
01:29:08  <grimrc1> if I used SDL, that'd cause a problem with the non-SDL ports?
01:29:17  <Bjarni> yes
01:29:37  <Bjarni> and if you don't want it to move every tick, make a counter that counts to say 5, reset it and move one pixel
01:29:53  <grimrc1> yeah will do; do you know what the functions are called?
01:30:29  <Bjarni> place it in the game loop and it will be called once for each loop
01:30:53  <Bjarni> tip: make the counter static ;)
01:31:34  <grimrc1> I'd rather start the counter after some time, and then poll it every so often; I only need about 1/4 second accuracy
01:33:12  <Bjarni> then make it count to something more than 5
01:33:35  <Bjarni> write the stuff and then try different values until it looks right
01:33:52  <grimrc1> #define DAY_TICKS 74
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01:36:07  <grimrc1> I think I've found an example in the _network_max_join_time console command
01:36:17  <Bjarni> good
01:37:29  <roboboy> i noticed that the 0.4.8 installer for ubuntu puts the exe in a different folder to the rest of the game, but i have to do it manually for the nightlies
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01:51:59  <Bjarni> goodnight
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02:23:44  <MaulingMonkey__> I am going to kick my internet connection in the crotch.
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05:41:51  <Cassac-> If i do a create a random map in the nightlyversion and saves it can i use it in multiplayer in 0.4.8?
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06:06:20  <Rubidium> Cassac-: you can't
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06:21:16  <Cassac-> Rubidium, okey tnx ;)
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06:49:17  <Wolf01> hi
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07:08:15  <Wolf01> i'm wondering if to build two diagonal tracks in the same diagonal-sloped tile, maybe using triangular foundations instead of raise the whole tile at the same level, requires more space in the map array
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07:13:06  <Tron> Wolf01: it needs corners to be at 2 different heights at the same time, not possible without reworking the whole height/slope system
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07:16:29  <Wolf01> so: "wait for the new map array"
07:16:58  <Tron> i wouldn't
07:17:07  <Wolf01> ah, how i can open the ottd project with devc++?
07:18:22  <Name101|OTTD> hello all
07:19:13  <Tron> read the manual of devc++
07:19:15  <exe> why not use visual studio express
07:19:50  <Wolf01> i opened it once with import->ms visual c++
07:20:08  <Wolf01> but now i can't find a project to import
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07:21:54  <Tron> !log 6073
07:22:09  <Tron> !svn 6073
07:22:15  <Tron> !calc 1+1
07:22:15  <_42_> Tron: 2;
07:22:21  <Tron> !help
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07:22:43  <Nigel_> !commit 6073
07:23:10  <DaleStan> <Tron> Wolf01: it needs corners to be at 2 different heights at the same time <-- Can't you just set the appropriate track-bits and then just use a specialized draw routine in that case?
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07:23:28  <Tron> !openttd log 6073
07:23:29  <_42_> Tron: r6073 log: -We have removed MSVC6 support, so remove strgen and langs project files as well.
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07:24:12  <Wolf01> ok, back to notepad
07:24:30  <Tron> what exactly is your problem?
07:24:51  <Tron> !openttd files 6073
07:24:51  <_42_> Tron: r6073 files: /trunk/ (  )
07:24:59  <Tron> uh... this seems wrong
07:25:02  <Tron> !openttd commit 6073
07:25:02  <Wolf01> none, but if i was able to open the whole project at the same time was better
07:25:04  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r6073 /trunk/ (  ) (2006-08-23 18:22:11 UTC)
07:25:05  <_42_> -We have removed MSVC6 support, so remove strgen and langs project files as well.
07:25:36  <Tron> i bet devc++ can create a project from a directory
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07:34:01  <Wolf01> ok, now i know why i didn't create a project from the ottd directory with devc++
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07:45:22  <CIA-2> miham * r6135 /trunk/lang/ (dutch.txt german.txt portuguese.txt):
07:45:22  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-26 09:44:54
07:45:22  <CIA-2> dutch - 28 fixed by habell (28)
07:45:22  <CIA-2> german - 5 changed by Neonox (5)
07:45:22  <CIA-2> portuguese - 2 fixed by izhirahider (2)
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08:26:29  <TrueLight> !openttd files 6073
08:26:29  <_42_> TrueLight: r6073 files: /trunk/ (  )
08:26:31  <TrueLight> hehe
08:28:05  <TrueLight> !openttd files 6073
08:28:15  <TrueLight> now it crashes
08:28:16  <TrueLight> lol
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08:28:26  <TrueLight> !openttd files 6073
08:28:28  <_42_> TrueLight: r6073 files: /trunk/ (  )
08:28:31  <TrueLight> bah :p
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08:32:05  <TrueLight> ah, of course
08:32:06  <TrueLight> !openttd files 6073
08:32:06  <_42_> TrueLight: r6073 files: /trunk/ (langs.dsp strgen/strgen.dsp strgen/strgen.dsw)
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08:53:24  <Bjarni> <-- hmm. Two people, two patches, same function
08:53:34  <Bjarni> finished within the same hour
08:53:41  <Bjarni> poor timing
08:57:06  <Bjarni> anybody here?
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08:58:17  <Bjarni> I guess not
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09:05:24  <Wolf01> seem a good patch
09:06:05  <Wolf01> what about creating routes first and then assign them to the vehicles?
09:06:20  <Wolf01> (like simutrans)
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09:14:57  <Bjarni> I need a place to store the route and I will not gain an order list before I create the vehicle with the current design
09:15:19  <Bjarni> but I have wondered about how to do it anyway
09:16:34  <Bjarni> my next addon to this idea is the "send all vehicles in list to depots" button
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09:17:43  <Def1ant> hi, i've got a small prob with 0.4.8. openttd. When trying to go multiplayer, and when pressing find server, i only get their ip's and msg on them is 'server closed'. I need to manually refresh
09:17:56  <Def1ant> all servers to see what they are called / how much players etc
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09:18:15  <Bjarni> hmm
09:18:25  <Bjarni> firewall?
09:18:50  <Def1ant> nope.. no firewall
09:19:02  <Bjarni> weird
09:19:20  <Def1ant> altough.. im connected via a router now to the cable modem to the internet
09:19:39  <Bjarni> the line "works for me" is not useful for you right now ;)
09:19:45  <Def1ant> :>
09:21:10  <hylje> :E
09:21:46  <Bjarni> The game uses TCp, while the serverlist is UDP (or both). I'm not entirely sure how the info is transmitted, so it could be that you got a blocked UDP line (just a guess)
09:22:01  <Bjarni> apart from that, I have no idea what to say
09:22:07  <Def1ant> ok
09:22:17  * Bjarni is not the network guru
09:22:32  <Def1ant> you happen to know port numbers by heart?
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09:23:47  <Bjarni> 3979 is the game port.... the server port... hmm
09:23:49  <Bjarni> not really
09:23:52  <hylje> rly
09:23:56  <TrueLight> !openttd port
09:23:57  <_42_> TrueLight: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
09:24:11  <Bjarni> I like _42_ better and better :)
09:24:22  <hylje> liek zomg
09:24:33  <Def1ant> i'll try to forward it and see if it'll work
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09:28:35  <[G-Spott]> nope :f Only the 10 lowest show up as needed (but all other version), rest is 'server closed' untill i refresh them
09:28:51  *** [G-Spott] is now known as [Def1ant]
09:29:06  <Patrick`> neat
09:29:25  <Patrick`> we have one of those asinine bots used to fire prepackaged answers at people who ask a slightly different question ...
09:29:28  <Patrick`> yay #ununtu
09:29:37  <Patrick`> *ubuntu
09:30:18  <TrueLight> [Def1ant]: known problem, will be fixed soon
09:30:28  <TrueLight> there are simply too many servers to scan them in one time, while the software does attempt to do so
09:31:45  <[Def1ant]> ah, ok. thanks
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09:43:00  <_mALmEN> hi :D
09:43:08  *** _mALmEN is now known as mALmEN
09:43:14  <mALmEN> i love ttd
09:43:15  <mALmEN> hehehe
09:45:08  <TrueLight> We too :)
09:45:47  <mALmEN> and i only now see thats be open to linux
09:45:52  <Bjarni> so that's what people call technopilia. The rest of us loves girls :p
09:45:55  <mALmEN> thats be great
09:46:01  <mALmEN> very very great :D
09:46:07  <hylje> :p
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09:51:07  <mALmEN> its possible set full screen on windows ?
09:51:23  <hylje> yes
09:53:15  <mALmEN> i no see where
09:53:15  <mALmEN> lol
09:53:36  <mALmEN> well
09:53:40  <mALmEN> now see something
09:53:41  <mALmEN> :P
09:56:01  <[Def1ant]> you can try [alt] + [enter] or, if that doesn't work.. check under options, beneath the screen resolution is a box that can be checked.. :>
09:56:15  <Trenskow> anyone else than me, that doesn't get anything in the network list in the trunk version (maybe in nightly too)
09:57:00  <Trenskow> woops
09:57:02  <Trenskow> my bad
09:57:18  <Trenskow> (select Internet from the ddl) :)
09:57:48  <mALmEN> i have a problem on my linux computer :S
09:57:48  <mALmEN> Your file is corrupted or missing!
09:57:48  <mALmEN> Error: Cannot open file '/usr/share/games/openttd/data/'
09:57:48  <mALmEN> openttd: openttd.c:76: error: Assertion `0' failed.
09:57:55  <mALmEN> :S
09:58:07  <Patrick`> at first glance I'd say you're missing
09:58:12  <Patrick`> and probably the other data files as well
09:59:26  <Bjarni> mALmEN: so you didn't read the readme :p
10:00:42  <mALmEN> i no have read me
10:00:43  <mALmEN> lol
10:00:46  <mALmEN> only install .deb
10:00:52  <Patrick`> yes.
10:00:54  <mALmEN> and irt
10:00:54  <mALmEN> sudo aptitude install build-essential libsdl1.2-dev subversion zlib1g-dev timidity
10:01:10  <Patrick`> don't need any of that to install from a deb.
10:01:14  <Patrick`> just to build it
10:01:31  <mALmEN> hmm
10:01:38  <mALmEN> and what need from install .deb ?
10:04:09  <mALmEN> where is the read me ?
10:05:12  <Patrick`> if you can't answer those questions yourself, what are you doing using linux :P
10:05:27  <mALmEN> loool
10:05:28  <Bjarni> because it's free?
10:05:39  <Bjarni> that's always a valid reason
10:06:02  *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:06:12  <mALmEN> because i like learn
10:07:21  <mALmEN> i dont know where openttd is installed
10:07:22  <mALmEN> lol
10:07:27  <mALmEN> i am updateing db
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10:11:02  <TrueLight> Bjarni: ping
10:11:02  <Bjarni> I'm still here
10:11:02  <TrueLight> Bjarni: nightly binary seems to have a problem
10:11:02  <TrueLight> can you load up revision 6122
10:11:02  <TrueLight> and try a savegame for me?
10:11:02  <Bjarni> sure
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10:13:29  <mALmEN> its now playing on linux :D
10:13:30  <mALmEN> lool
10:14:41  <mALmEN> in the game where i see the name of server where i am playing ?
10:14:50  <mALmEN> (multiplayer)
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10:46:59  <ln->
10:47:47  <Bjarni> hehe
10:47:58  <Bjarni> that really makes you want to board the planes :p
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10:48:06  <Bjarni> <-- this one is good as well :D
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10:49:41  <TorbenPaw> hallo
10:50:13  <TorbenPaw> think theres something wrong with the sandbox password thingy not being updated...
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10:51:44  <Zaviori> TorbenPaw, are you sure you are on right channel? :
10:52:09  <TorbenPaw> my bad... didnt notice it knew difference between P and p...
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10:57:21  <TorbenPaw> hmm keeps getting desyncs
10:58:25  <e1ko> TorbenPaw: join #openttdcoop
10:59:15  <TorbenPaw> isnt this it??
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10:59:35  <Patrick`> jesus
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11:05:44  <Bjarni> sometimes we get that kind of visitors
11:05:52  <Bjarni> the same goes for #tycoon
11:06:07  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has joined #openttd
11:06:15  <Bjarni> I once saw a guy joining that channel and asked patchman if he was a programmer
11:07:10  <CIA-2> truelight * r6136 /trunk/ (misc.c openttd.c):
11:07:10  <CIA-2> -Fix: _cur_year wasn't converting when reading pre-31 savegames, causing nasty desyncs
11:07:10  <CIA-2> -Fix: _date, which is a Date, which is int32, was saved as uint32
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11:33:08  <hnsn> plx
11:33:11  <hnsn> läget
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11:35:28  <Sacro> afternoon all
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11:40:10  <hnsn> y0
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11:41:19  <Sacro> yo
11:41:33  <hnsn> dead?
11:43:11  <TrueLight> Why you ask here? :) We don't own or suport that domain...
11:44:28  <hnsn> maybe som swedish fanboys in this channel besides me :D
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11:48:31  <TrueLight> nah
11:48:36  <TrueLight> we hate swedish people :)
11:48:38  <TrueLight> MWHAHAHAHAHAHA
11:48:41  <TrueLight> we eat them alive!
11:48:56  <TrueLight> they do make good soup
11:48:57  <TrueLight> hmmmm
11:48:58  <hnsn> like the bear?
11:49:11  <TrueLight> bear? Which bear? I want bear! Give me bear..
11:49:26  <hnsn> ok u said it
11:49:40  <hnsn>
11:49:54  <hnsn> not recommended though
11:49:58  <hnsn> or something
11:50:00  <hnsn> plx
11:50:04  <TrueLight> rowr
11:50:08  <TrueLight> a nice white bear
11:50:09  <TrueLight> YEAH!
11:50:35  <JohnUK89> hnsn: head over to ;-)
11:50:55  <hnsn> ^^
11:50:59  <TrueLight> That sounds like a plan :)
11:51:09  <hnsn> been there done that ate that bear
11:53:17  <Bjarni> don't be too hard on the Swedes
11:53:34  <Bjarni> it's not their fault that they are.... Swedes..
11:53:43  <TrueLight> says a Danish person
11:53:43  <TrueLight> clear
11:53:56  <JohnUK89> They can't help it :)
11:54:12  <hnsn> ^^
11:54:15  <TrueLight> While I can't help myself (8)
11:54:20  <TrueLight> Cannot control myself (8)
11:55:15  <JohnUK89> <installing all the stuff needed to compile OpenTTD again...I had to bloody reinstall Ubuntu :(
11:55:58  <JohnUK89> Damn Partition Magic :@
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11:59:11  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: so that's why you are not lolman anymore
11:59:25  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: nah lol
11:59:44  <JohnUK89> I could still be lolman if I wanted to be :)
12:00:14  * hnsn np: The Doors - The End [11:38m/128Kbps/44KHz]
12:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> /kick
12:00:29  <TrueLight> please, no such scripts in here
12:00:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> (in any other channel, i would have ;))
12:00:54  <hnsn> just a tip ^^
12:01:03  <TrueLight> hnsn: still, we don't like it
12:01:07  <hnsn> yeye
12:01:10  <TrueLight> Eddi|zuHause3: he is swedish, come on
12:01:19  <TrueLight> you have to be patient with them :)
12:01:56  <JohnUK89> Give the poor man a chance to come to terms with the surroundings, he's not used to them:)
12:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> i heard all swedes were criminal filesharers ;)
12:02:03  <Sacro> heh "A malicious program has attempted to shut down Windows. As a precaution, Windows was shut down."
12:02:12  <TrueLight> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, with their 10mbit/sec full duplex for 25 euro a month :(
12:02:26  <TrueLight> Sacro: lol, sounds like Windows :)
12:02:42  <Sacro> TrueLight: you really should grep that first :P
12:02:50  <hnsn> i have 100/100 for free
12:02:54  <Sacro> ahh, you mine it like tha
12:02:55  <hnsn> yes no?
12:03:33  <hnsn> hello everybody. i would like to tip u all of the song im currentu listening on. its Axel Foley - Harold Faltermeyer
12:03:38  <hnsn> *currently
12:03:43  <hnsn> or something
12:03:45  <TrueLight> hnsn: it really isn't improving
12:03:47  <TrueLight> so, last warning
12:03:51  * JohnUK89 slaps hsns
12:03:52  <hnsn> hmm
12:03:55  <JohnUK89> hnsn*
12:03:58  <hnsn> but i wrote it!
12:04:11  <TrueLight> hnsn: doesn't matter, we just don't care what you listen too
12:04:15  <TrueLight> really, we don't
12:04:15  <JohnUK89> hnsn, if the ops say no, don't use it ;-)
12:04:20  <hnsn> ^^
12:05:25  <hnsn> mom can he do that
12:05:39  <Sacro> hnsn: good tune
12:05:59  * Sacro goes sneaking around the living room
12:06:05  * hnsn follows
12:06:27  * Sacro is scared by a guy in the shower on tv humming/whistling the french national anthem
12:06:40  <Sacro> ah well, if i jump him, he's likely to surrender!
12:06:50  <hnsn> !
12:07:04  <hnsn> can u tip me with a song while u do that?
12:07:21  <Sacro> MPD currently is playing: nothing
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12:07:53  <hnsn> is that a open source song?
12:08:52  <Sacro> yes
12:09:01  <Sacro> cat /dev/zero > /dev/dsp
12:09:01  <Darkvater>
12:09:06  <Darkvater> muhahahha
12:09:43  <Sacro> hehe
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12:11:38  <roboboy> gnight
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12:29:02  <hnsn> ooops
12:29:12  <hnsn> .stop follow
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12:30:29  <JohnUK89> Sacro: wb
12:32:04  <Sacro> JohnUK89: ty
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12:37:21  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- cad reader :-)
12:39:28  <Tefad> cad-comic?
12:39:32  <Gonozal_VIII> yep
12:39:36  <JohnUK89> <--- fad reader :)
12:40:36  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- made myself a little comic link collection
12:41:04  <Gonozal_VIII> first one is not a comic^^
12:49:53  <Darkvater> I wonder when volume three is coming out
12:51:23  <Tefad> heh
12:51:28  <Tefad> cad is fun at times
12:51:34  <Tefad> i miss w00t : (
12:51:56  <Tefad> asshats were always quite amusing to me : D
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13:22:41  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> <-- made myself a little comic link collection <-- dilbert is missing :(
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13:23:29  <Sacro> dilbert ftw!
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13:32:31  <Trenskow> TrueLight, rfc ?
13:34:38  <Gonozal_VIII> dilbert?
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13:40:49  <TrueLight> back! :)
13:42:32  <Bjarni> TrueLight!
13:42:45  <Bjarni> Trenskow wants feedback on #213
13:42:55  <Trenskow> yea ! :D
13:43:50  <TrueLight> Bjarni: his problem
13:43:57  <TrueLight> and why you tell me that?
13:44:03  <TrueLight> I already told you what I am currently doing
13:44:38  <Bjarni> ...
13:46:12  <Bjarni> so you are saying that this patch is not worth a moment of your time
13:46:27  <Bjarni> you don't have to recode it, just say what you didn't like about it
13:46:40  *** miika [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:46:42  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by TrueLight [I wish I had better words... but really...]
13:46:45  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~Bjarni@*] by TrueLight
13:46:47  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~Bjarni@*] by TrueLight
13:46:55  <TrueLight> I hate repeating myself
13:48:30  <Trenskow> TrueLight, i wasn't here, so please tell me, but if your not satisfied, all you have to say is "thanks for your effort, but we cannot use your patch"
13:48:43  <TrueLight> Trenskow: nah, it is not remotely like that
13:48:49  <TrueLight> Bjarni is just trying to shoff this patch up my ass
13:48:53  <TrueLight> and I am not sharmed by that
13:48:54  <TrueLight> not one bit
13:49:08  <TrueLight> I am currently walking all patches on, from the oldest to the newest
13:49:26  <TrueLight> this is a slow process because of the little effort there has been so far
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13:49:42  <TrueLight> so, I will get to yours, but not today, and not tomorrow
13:49:55  <TrueLight> and besides, there enough other devs who might want to take a look
13:50:05  <TrueLight> Bjarni: I am very serious about this. Do not try to shoff up a patch in my ass like that.
13:50:22  <TrueLight> it is _not_ nice to do that in a public channel
13:50:58  <TrueLight> Trenskow: so as you see, it has nothing to do with your patch :) I just have to distribute the little time I do have :)
13:51:35  <Ammler> Hi, is there a Bug knowned with the actual nightly and newstations?
13:51:48  <Trenskow> TrueLight, allright
13:51:57  <TrueLight> Ammler: I remember hearing that before, yes, try searching
13:56:42  <TrueLight> Trenskow: just one tip, do check the code-style rules. There are some (minor) problems with that :)
13:56:55  <Trenskow> TrueLight, roger
13:57:31  <Bjarni>
13:58:23  <TrueLight> Trenskow: then pay attention mostly to { and }
13:58:43  <Trenskow> yea i see... i do newlines :S
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14:16:10  <Osai> TrueLight: I reported shouldn't be too difficult
14:16:28  <TrueLight> Osai: if I knew anything about newgrf.... :p
14:16:47  <Osai> I know, only wanted to tell its reported
14:17:49  <TrueLight> :) I put it under the attention of people who might know what to do with it, so we shall see :)
14:18:20  <Osai> thx :P
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14:22:58  <CIA-2> truelight * r6137 /trunk/ (9 files):
14:22:58  <CIA-2> -Codechange: some very minor cleanups:
14:22:58  <CIA-2>  - Start using DeleteXXX for every pool item, not manually doing it
14:22:58  <CIA-2>  - Use some wrapper to improve logic
14:22:58  <CIA-2>  - Rewrote some pieces to improve logic
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14:36:22  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6138 /trunk/ (StdAfx.c openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): - Remove stdafx.c since we do not use it.
14:36:37  <TrueLight> FINALLY!!! :)
14:36:58  <Darkvater> I have no idea wtf that file was doing there
14:38:09  <TrueLight> We wanted to get ride of it for so long
14:38:11  <TrueLight> but MSVC uses it
14:38:16  <TrueLight> and I aint touching MSVC magic :)
14:39:07  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6139 /trunk/ (strings.c strings.h): -Codechange: strings are StringID. This should be changed in strings.h as well, but you would need to include openttd.h and that opens a whole new can of worms.
14:39:18  <Darkvater> it's not using it
14:39:25  <Darkvater> it's probably some ancient PCH magic
14:41:22  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6140 /trunk/variables.h: -Codechange: fix the comment of _shift_pressed. It doesn't react to ALT, but to SHIFT.
14:41:54  <Bjarni> heh
14:42:02  <Bjarni> comment and code out of sync
14:42:05  <Bjarni> nice one :)
14:42:12  <TrueLight> the worst case
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14:44:22  <izhirahider> you guys should consider customizing the size of windows (and buttons) to the size of the strings that appear there, as opposed to a fixed size. It looks bad when translations take longer space, like what is happening with french and heightmaps dialog box :/
14:45:00  <CIA-2> truelight * r6141 /trunk/ (depot.c depot.h openttd.h rail_cmd.c road_cmd.c water_cmd.c):
14:45:00  <CIA-2> -Codechange: introduced DepotID and used it as much as possible
14:45:00  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteDepot removes a depot from the pool
14:45:00  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyDepot is called by DeleteDepot to remove all things where a depot depends on.
14:45:00  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
14:45:00  <CIA-2> -Codechange: Removed DoDeleteDepot as it was stupid
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14:47:47  <Bjarni> izhirahider: yeah.... but how? :)
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14:57:44  <izhirahider> Well, the identation it's used to place the buttons must be done right now in a fixed way?
14:58:53  <Bjarni> yes
14:59:08  <Bjarni> it's hardcoded into the program code
14:59:16  <Bjarni> unmodifiable at runtime
14:59:40  <izhirahider> using #define's?
14:59:57  <Bjarni> no
14:59:59  <Bjarni> using
15:00:02  <Bjarni>  static const Widget _orders_train_widgets[] = {
15:00:11  <Bjarni> and other arrays like that
15:00:16  <izhirahider> could you tell me what file I should see that contains the code to window popup generation?
15:00:21  <Bjarni> this is just the one I'm working on right now ;)
15:00:26  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
15:00:55  <Bjarni> window.* and *_gui.c
15:01:31  <izhirahider> One other thing, TerraGenesis is the name of the algorithm, it should be translated?
15:01:53  <hylje> just use tgp
15:01:58  <izhirahider> that's like trying to translate Pepsi or Coca-cola :)
15:02:14  <Trenskow> izhirahider,
15:02:18  <Bjarni> actually it is possible to translate it
15:02:22  <hylje> idd
15:02:38  <Trenskow> bbl
15:02:40  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
15:02:58  <Bjarni> <Trenskow>	izhirahider,
15:02:59  <Bjarni> <Trenskow>	bbl
15:03:04  <Bjarni> where is the message part?
15:03:06  <Bjarni> :)
15:03:11  <hylje> how insightful
15:03:28  <hylje> he wanted izhirahider to know he would say something to him later
15:04:22  <Bjarni> if I should guess what happened, then I would say he got interrupted by something
15:04:31  <izhirahider> I'm always on, so no worries
15:04:35  <Bjarni> maybe the really bad weather at his location
15:04:45  <Bjarni> thunder and heavy rainfall
15:04:46  <hylje> weather? whats that
15:04:57  <hylje> its thundering and raining right now
15:05:29  <Bjarni> I think it was last week that they got water everywhere, including roads, tunnels and basements due to a lot of rain
15:05:56  <Bjarni> maybe Trenskow lives in a basement and had to move his computer up higher... just in case
15:06:14  <Bjarni> that's a valid reason to log off rather quickly
15:06:25  <hylje> zomg
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15:07:27  <grimrc1> hehe
15:07:54  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:20:05  <jnmbk> hi, is it possible to make OTTD write "openttd.cfg" file in "~/.openttd" directory? (I'm working on an ottd package for my favourite linux distro)
15:20:38  <jnmbk> I now it's possible but how :)
15:20:47  <TrueLight> -c
15:21:00  <jnmbk> ah, right :)
15:21:06  <jnmbk> I forgot it :)
15:23:10  <TrueLight> a walk on the wiki would have shown it ;)
15:26:09  *** Mucht|zZz is now known as Mucht
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15:33:27  <Born_Acorn> An AI just went bankrupt and left its stations behind.
15:33:38  <Born_Acorn> That can't be right!
15:34:35  <TrueLight> smells like a bug yes ;)
15:34:46  <TrueLight> But then again... the word 'AI' alone smells like a bug :)
15:35:04  <Born_Acorn> :p
15:35:14  <Born_Acorn> (I started with them by accident)
15:35:16  <grimrc1> I left a game running for ages and my player went bankrupt and left everything behind (I could still play basically, except I had no money)
15:35:33  <Born_Acorn> They killed themselves by building 90 degree turns, like usual. :p
15:35:42  <TrueLight> Sounds like the bankrupt routine has a bug :)
15:36:05  <Born_Acorn> But, I reloaded the savegame, and when I press bulldoze on the stations, a crash.
15:36:42  <Born_Acorn> Since the stations the AI didn't bulldoze now have my company colour.
15:37:05  <TrueLight> Version?
15:37:18  <Born_Acorn> Using the Query tool too. I'm guessing that6122
15:37:23  <Born_Acorn> *6122
15:37:36  <TrueLight> no local patches?
15:37:46  <Born_Acorn> nope
15:37:50  <Born_Acorn> just nightly.
15:40:00  <TrueLight> only stations?
15:40:09  <TrueLight> vehicles were removed and such?
15:40:51  <Born_Acorn> track and vehicles gone, but Depots and Stations remain
15:41:39  <TrueLight> I ahve ot say, I can't even find the routine which should take care of that :)
15:41:58  <Bjarni> AI = rewrite instead of fixing
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15:44:17  <jnmbk> I took that line from openttd-0.4.8/os/linux/openttd.spec does it have something wrong? make BINARY_DIR=%{_gamesbindir} PREFIX=%{_gamesdatadir} DATA_DIR=openttd INSTALL_DIR=%{_gamesdatadir}/openttd/ USE_HOMEDIR=1 PERSONAL_DIR=.openttd INSTALL=1 RELEASE=%{version}
15:44:37  <exe> z
15:45:31  <jnmbk> should it be DATA_DIR=%{_gamesdatadir} ?
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15:49:04  * Tron thinks there are several bugs in RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles()
15:49:29  <TrueLight> like? :)
15:49:42  <Tron> the v->order == NULL check is too early
15:50:09  <TrueLight> why?
15:50:32  <Tron> a vehicle can still have a last visited station even if it currently has no orders assigned
15:50:53  <TrueLight> can it? more a bug of the DeleteOrder routine
15:50:56  <TrueLight> but okay, you said: several
15:51:08  <Tron> <TrueLight> can it? more a bug of the DeleteOrder routine <--- ?
15:51:29  <TrueLight> DeleteOrder should empty last_station_visited
15:51:43  <Tron> why?
15:51:52  <TrueLight> Why should this routine do it? :)
15:51:53  <Tron> i see no connection
15:51:56  <TrueLight> oh wait
15:52:00  <TrueLight> hehe
15:52:01  <TrueLight> hmm
15:52:04  <TrueLight> tricky one indeed
15:52:06  <TrueLight> come from 2 directions
15:52:09  <TrueLight> so you are right, yes
15:52:12  <TrueLight> but, what others?
15:52:30  <Tron> it can incorrectly delete depot orders of aircraft
15:52:41  <TrueLight> aircraft and depots sucks
15:52:47  <TrueLight> they don't have depots
15:52:48  <TrueLight> somehow
15:52:56  <Tron> if a road or train depot gets removed which happens to have the same DepotID as an airport ...
15:52:59  <TrueLight> for a reason still unknown to me (because hangers to get assigned a depot id....
15:53:13  <Tron> hangars have a DepotID?
15:53:15  <Tron> where?
15:53:56  <TrueLight> hmm, no it is not
15:54:01  <TrueLight> I am sure I worked on that...
15:54:05  <TrueLight> but okay, a year ago
15:54:20  <grimrc1> that's weird; holding left mouse and dragging inside the map window doesn't seem to scroll any more
15:54:39  <TrueLight> Tron: but okay, it is a big problem airports uses station index to give to GOTO_DEPOT
15:55:10  <Tron> grimrc1: ask Mr. TrueLight, iirc he changed something there last
15:55:25  <Tron> TrueLight: it just has to be handled correctly
15:55:37  <TrueLight> grimrc1: try right mouse
15:55:49  <TrueLight> Tron: I rather see hangars getting a depot ID which is used
15:56:06  <TrueLight> but okay, both valid bugs
15:56:07  <Tron> TrueLight: he means the minimap
15:56:19  <TrueLight> Tron: same thing, right button scrolls
15:56:27  <TrueLight> the left button behavoir was inconsistent
15:56:30  <Tron> yes, it scrolls the minimap, but not the main view
15:56:30  <grimrc1> that's a different scroller
15:56:40  <TrueLight> when you left the minimap
15:56:40  <Tron> TrueLight: inconsistent with what?
15:56:43  <TrueLight> it stopped working
15:56:46  <TrueLight> and more of those bugs
15:56:50  <Tron> it's the only minimap we have
15:57:06  <Darkvater> hmm indeed
15:57:16  <Darkvater> that's what you get for trying to add more features ;p
15:57:23  <Tron> Darkvater: ?
15:57:26  <TrueLight> it had more bugs then working code
15:57:31  <Tron> what?
15:57:35  <Tron> what are you talking about?
15:57:44  <TrueLight> [17:56:39] <@TrueLight> when you left the minimap
15:57:44  <TrueLight> [17:56:42] <@TrueLight> it stopped working
15:57:53  <Tron> so it's broken now
15:57:55  <Darkvater> Tron: saying in a funny way that adding new features can add bugs
15:58:01  <TrueLight> that is what it has been doing since day 1
15:58:02  <Tron> Darkvater: which feature?
15:58:11  <Darkvater> double-click centers
15:58:15  <Darkvater> part-rewrite for minimap-zoom
15:58:20  <TrueLight> Darkvater: I removed it not because of adding a new feature
15:58:27  <Tron> double-click?
15:58:36  <Tron> OTTD has no notion of double-clicks?!
15:58:47  <TrueLight> now the story gets more funnier every moment
15:58:48  <TrueLight> cool
15:59:02  <TrueLight> this reminds me of the game: say something in someones ear, and let him tell the person next to him
15:59:02  <Darkvater> TrueLight: it should be put back; bad to have been removed
15:59:06  <TrueLight> see what comes up at the end
15:59:15  <TrueLight> Darkvater: if you put it back, fix it to work it correctly
15:59:27  <TrueLight> (which has the need to add many hacks)
15:59:58  <Tron> what was fixed, if i may ask
16:00:14  <TrueLight> I kind of lost this conversation I am afraid
16:00:24  <Tron> what was fixed in the minimap?
16:00:30  <Darkvater> 1. deletevehiclealldepotorder or something is buggy
16:00:37  <Darkvater> 2. minimap doesn't scroll anymore
16:00:37  <Tron> i can't remember any known bugs (except the ususal buffer overrun)
16:00:38  <TrueLight> I added a feature, that double click goes to that point of clicking
16:00:40  <Darkvater> the 2 topics
16:01:01  <Tron> TrueLight: a simple left click always did that
16:01:02  <TrueLight> and the left button behavoir had bugs for as long as I am here
16:01:15  <TrueLight> so maybe you can't remember, but for sure there were
16:01:19  <TrueLight> anyway, out for some good dinner
16:01:34  <TrueLight> (Btw, I asked if it could be removed, I got 3 yes, zero no)
16:01:47  <Tron> which bugs?
16:02:48  <Darkvater> TrueLight: minimap scrolling with lmb removed?
16:03:10  <Tron> the last bug i remember was some inconsistency for right-click scroll boundaries. i fixed that about 4000 revs ago
16:03:41  <Darkvater> minimap scrolling definitely needs coming back
16:03:48  <Darkvater> donnu which idiot voted for that
16:05:20  <Jucciz> donnu :)
16:05:23  <Tron> we got like 89 here
16:05:46  <Jucciz> minimap definitely needs scrolling
16:06:25  <Darkvater> I think TrueLight was right
16:06:28  <Darkvater> it is foodtime :)
16:06:35  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
16:06:43  * Tron goes fixing the orders problem
16:06:44  <Darkvater> minimap scrolling needs to be back; definitely
16:06:48  <Darkvater> < food
16:07:00  <MeusH> hello
16:07:09  <MeusH> Darkvater, thanks for FS :)
16:09:28  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
16:09:52  <MeusH> anyway
16:09:54  <MeusH> <work
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16:16:01  <TrueLight> Darkvater: feel free to re-add it. Just make sure you fix the annoying bugs surrounding it
16:16:25  <TrueLight> Tron: so I tell you _again_: while 'left' scrolling, leaving the minimap, moving the mouse back it, it all of a sudden stopped scrolling.
16:16:36  <Jucciz> how many of you are in the ottd development team?
16:16:44  <TrueLight> Jucciz: see website
16:16:47  <TrueLight> Darkvater: eet ze
16:16:50  <Jucciz> I mean, coding, gfx or anything that has to do with it
16:16:59  <TrueLight> Jucciz: see website
16:17:04  <Jucciz> ..
16:17:05  <TrueLight> :)
16:17:21  <Jucciz> btw, has chris sawyer been in touch with ottd crew in any way?
16:17:25  <Jucciz> "see website"? :D
16:17:35  <TrueLight> not to my knowledge
16:17:41  <Jucciz> okay
16:17:48  <grimrc1> he doesn't even mention openttd on his website
16:17:50  <Jucciz> I don't think he can totally ignore this project
16:17:55  <Jucciz> in his mind at least
16:18:31  <Jucciz> ttd was the best game ever... until ottd was born :)
16:19:07  <Jucciz> there's been much talk about the new gfx but how about new music? any ideas?
16:19:19  <TrueLight> there are some forum posts about it
16:19:24  <Jucciz> the songs sure are copyrighted, great tunes imo
16:19:43  <Jucciz> I like that groovy jazzy music, it just fits perfectly to the game
16:19:56  <TrueLight> my music is always muted :)
16:20:31  <Jucciz> how wrong is that
16:20:43  <grimrc1> well openttd is played over hours and hours
16:21:12  <Tron> <TrueLight> Tron: so I tell you _again_: while 'left' scrolling, leaving the minimap, moving the mouse back it, it all of a sudden stopped scrolling. <-- sorry, i can't parse this sentense
16:21:19  <Born_Acorn> We should repeform the music! :p
16:21:32  <Jucciz> I could be in the "band"
16:21:43  <Jucciz> I've been playing those tunes with a guitar anyway :)
16:21:54  <TrueLight> I have a train that can't move through a green light! LOL! :)
16:22:14  <TrueLight> Tron: minimap
16:22:14  <TrueLight> open
16:22:17  <TrueLight> left mouse click
16:22:17  <TrueLight> drag
16:22:18  <Jucciz> but still the compositions are copyrighted, not just the midi versions of them ;)
16:22:20  <TrueLight> outside minimap
16:22:22  <TrueLight> drag stops
16:22:25  <TrueLight> while holding down
16:22:26  <TrueLight> move back
16:22:32  <TrueLight> dragging still stopped
16:22:37  <TrueLight> bug
16:22:46  <Tron> bug: dragging does not work at all
16:22:58  <Tron> so it sure stops when the mouse leaves the minimap
16:23:02  <Tron> because it never started
16:23:27  <Tron> lets see if i have a compiled 0.4.8 here...
16:24:36  <Tron> hm, ok, but that's no reason to remove it altogether
16:24:59  <TrueLight> the implementation was hackish, the new features allows almost the same feature, in a clean way, and I asked around and nobody seemed to use it
16:25:09  <TrueLight> enough reason to remove it
16:25:13  <TrueLight> but okay, if you don't agree
16:25:15  <TrueLight> I really don't care
16:25:17  <TrueLight> fix it
16:25:18  <TrueLight> put it back
16:25:21  <TrueLight> easy as that
16:25:27  <TrueLight> but please, do fix it :)
16:25:37  <Tron> who is this nobody guy? where does he live, i want ot visit him and slap him
16:26:02  <TrueLight> Hehe, :)
16:26:10  <TrueLight> But seriously, I had no idea people really used that feature
16:26:15  <TrueLight> it makes my head spin :(
16:26:23  <Tron> you broke, removed or whatever this, so please fix it
16:26:35  <TrueLight> I see no way to fix the bug in it, so I will not
16:26:55  <Tron> pardon?
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16:31:07  <TrueLight> Things to do to have a good laugh: load a map made with newgrf, and disable them... running trains without engine, trains not going through green lights, you got to love it :)
16:31:17  <TrueLight> Darkvater: how is it going with that patch to save newgrfs in the savegame?
16:32:26  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-239-62.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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16:33:11  <glx> TrueLight: ask peter1138 :)
16:33:17  <jnmbk> :( I can't get that working, It complains about not having something in scenario folder... sudo make install BINARY_DIR=usr/bin PREFIX=/var/tmp/pisi/openttd-0.4.8-4/install DATA_DIR=usr/share/openttd INSTALLDIR=usr/share/openttd USE_HOMEDIR=1 PERSONAL_DIR=.openttd INSTALL=1
16:33:19  <TrueLight> peter1138: how is it going with that patch to save newgrfs in the savegame?
16:33:23  <TrueLight> glx: tnx :)
16:34:02  <Born_Acorn> I'd laugh if peter1138 told you to ask Darkvater.
16:34:10  <CIA-2> truelight * r6142 /trunk/ (23 files in 4 dirs):
16:34:10  <CIA-2> -Codechange: added WaypointID (sorry DV, couldn't splits it anymore)
16:34:10  <CIA-2> -Codechange: introduced DestinationID, which is in fact an union of several types
16:34:10  <CIA-2>  Used in Order struct, so no longer StationID is abused for all targets.
16:34:10  <CIA-2>  Hangars are a big exception, as they use a station-id with GOTO_DEPOT (go figure)
16:34:15  <TrueLight> Born_Acorn: would be funny indeed ;)
16:34:16  <Born_Acorn> WHo then asks you to ask peter1138 again!
16:34:18  <Sacro> jnmbk: dont you mean /usr?
16:34:51  <jnmbk> Sacro: wait I'll paste the result somewhere
16:35:12  <TrueLight> jnmbk: using 0.4.8, I assume?
16:35:21  <jnmbk> yes
16:35:29  <jnmbk>
16:35:51  <TrueLight> and translated that error means? :)
16:35:57  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:36:06  <jnmbk> ok :)
16:36:16  <jnmbk> no such file
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16:36:29  <TrueLight> and the dir scenario does exists?
16:36:33  <TrueLight> and in it is a file called Readme?
16:36:40  <TrueLight> even README
16:36:54  <jnmbk> no there is no file in scenario folder
16:36:54  <glx> btw scenario is empty in source
16:37:08  <TrueLight> hmm ... then there you have your problem :)
16:37:08  <TrueLight> hehe
16:37:21  <Sacro> i see no problam
16:37:21  <jnmbk> I'll put sth in it :)
16:37:34  <Sacro> touch scenario/stopcomplaining
16:37:35  <TrueLight> in 0.4.8 it is empty indeed
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16:37:53  <jnmbk> Sacro: good solution :)
16:38:15  <TrueLight> I wonder why.. 6 months ago someone already fixed that problem in trunk anyway
16:38:32  *** Dred_furst` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:38:53  <hylje> you forgot to backport it
16:38:57  <TrueLight> I guess so :)
16:39:04  <TrueLight> so jnmbk, bug is fixed in trunk, just not in 0.4.8 :)
16:39:23  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:39:28  <Sacro>
16:39:35  <TrueLight> lol! For this? :)
16:39:36  <TrueLight> would be funny
16:39:41  <TrueLight> everyone updating
16:39:44  <TrueLight> finding no difference
16:39:44  <TrueLight> :)
16:39:47  <Sacro> hehe
16:40:06  <Sacro> i wonder if OTTD is Vista compatable
16:40:30  <TrueLight> I wanted to make it IPv6 compatible, but my 4@#$@#$@ modem from my ISP doens't allow me to make 6to4 tunnels :(
16:40:32  <hylje> "we cant support vista, win32 is a pain enough"
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16:41:37  <Sacro> im running 64bit vista next
16:41:45  <Sacro> 32bit vista is a waste of space
16:41:54  <TrueLight> remove 32bit
16:41:56  <TrueLight> and you are right
16:42:26  <Sacro> but then if your doing tech support for uni students, whose parents often buy them top spec laptops
16:42:32  <Sacro> you kinda need to keep in front
16:44:56  <TrueLight> I consider a Vista a ME
16:45:31  <Sacro> i consider ME a bob
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16:46:29  <Born_Acorn> I like Me. Me is nice. Me is Born_Acorn.
16:46:33  <Darkvater> 18:16 <@TrueLight> Darkvater: feel free to re-add it. Just make sure you fix the annoying bugs surrounding it
16:46:34  <CIA-2> truelight * r6143 /trunk/ (waypoint.c waypoint.h):
16:46:34  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteWaypoint removes a waypoint from the pool
16:46:34  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyWaypoint is called by DeleteWaypoint to remove all things where a waypoint depends on.
16:46:34  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
16:46:37  <Darkvater> that is unfair!
16:46:42  <Darkvater> you removed it so you should put it back
16:47:17  <TrueLight> Darkvater: putting a broken function back is a bit..... euh..
16:48:03  <TrueLight> I rather have someone taking a deep look into it
16:48:06  <TrueLight> and fixing it
16:49:37  <TrueLight> okay, let me rephrase ALL above comments about the removed piece of code
16:49:45  <TrueLight> I like not to just revert it, I rather see it fixed and put back
16:51:14  <Darkvater> which rev was it?
16:51:27  <TrueLight> you ask me to remind something? Hehe :p
16:51:42  <hylje> ask subversion
16:52:01  <Darkvater> put it into the todo list ( at least with a comment to the revision it was removed in and specific reasons. eg not: 'it was buggy'
16:52:02  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:52:17  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
16:52:28  <TrueLight>
16:52:34  <Sacro> grr, got some fugly russian "girl" after me on skyp
16:52:35  <Sacro> e
16:53:07  <Darkvater> TrueLight: so what was the part that got it not working anymore?
16:53:12  <Darkvater> _left_button_clicked = false;  ?
16:53:18  <TrueLight> I believe so yes
16:53:35  <Darkvater> and I *MUST* say, if that was indeed that then the commit message is absolutely wrong
16:53:43  <Darkvater> no mention whatsoever of removed func
16:53:49  <TrueLight> I forgot about it, so indeed
16:53:52  <TrueLight> you are absolutely right
16:54:31  <TrueLight> ticket created
16:54:49  * Sacro cries
16:54:55  <TrueLight> Tron: sorry if I was a bit harsh (or how ever you write it) on you, I don't mean it bad in any way. Can you forgive me?
16:55:32  <Darkvater> hmm something else is weird as well..putting back that line is ...the a bit funky results ;p
16:55:49  <hylje> eh
16:55:55  <TrueLight> I never tried it with that line there, so I really have no idea :)
16:58:10  <TrueLight> Darkvater: lol, let me guess, it keeps on recentering everything?
16:58:35  <Darkvater> it's just weird, drags the crosshair with it and jumps like a madman at the corners
16:58:42  <hylje> heheh
16:58:46  <TrueLight> Darkvater: yup
16:58:50  <hylje> funny bugs win
17:00:25  <Born_Acorn> Sacro, run for your life!
17:00:44  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: i think i might...
17:00:59  <Sacro> heiffer just doesnt cover it
17:01:00  <Born_Acorn> Russian girls eat men for dinner!
17:01:30  <Sacro> :o
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17:02:09  <Sacro> dima: Ok sexy from which area r u???I need to know the exact address so I can search for your soul....
17:02:11  <Sacro> :|
17:02:17  <Kjetil> Russian men eat the internet for dinner
17:02:46  <hylje> hell, russians have their own 2ch
17:03:00  <hylje> they do eat the internet for dinner
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17:12:26  <CIA-2> truelight * r6144 /trunk/ (openttd.h order.h order_cmd.c vehicle.h):
17:12:26  <CIA-2> -Codechange: renamed OrderID to VehicleOrderID, because it had nothing to do
17:12:26  <CIA-2>  with the Order-pool, but with the place of the order within the vehicle-order
17:12:26  <CIA-2>  (hence its name) (part of FS#13, blathijs)
17:12:33  <TrueLight> sorry about all the header-touches
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17:16:21  <hylje> zomg
17:16:53  <CIA-2> truelight * r6145 /trunk/ (openttd.h order.h order_cmd.c): -Codechange: added OrderID to indicate Order indexes out of the pool
17:17:08  <Darkvater> indeces ^^
17:17:09  <TrueLight> I feel so sorry for RichK67
17:17:14  <TrueLight> DOH!
17:17:33  <hylje> we know that TrueLight cant spell :p
17:17:39  <TrueLight> !spell indeces
17:17:40  <_42_> TrueLight: & indeces 9 0: induces, indexes, inducers, indexers, inducer's, indeeds, index's, indexer, induced
17:17:45  <TrueLight> HAhaha :) It isn't english :)
17:17:51  <TrueLight> indexes is perfect correct english :)
17:17:53  <Darkvater> hmm
17:17:54  <RichK67> why?? :P
17:18:02  <TrueLight> RichK67: for the commits I am doing, nasty to merge
17:18:07  <Darkvater> indices
17:18:11  <Darkvater> !spell indices
17:18:12  <_42_> Darkvater: & indices 19 0: induces, inducers, in dices, in-dices, ind ices, ind-ices, Indies, indites, inducer's, entices, induced, induce, undies, indices's, insides, indexes, inducer, endives, invoices
17:18:17  <Darkvater> there
17:18:23  <TrueLight> indices is wrongly spelled
17:18:25  <TrueLight> !spell indexes
17:18:26  <_42_> TrueLight: 'indexes' is correctly spelled
17:18:32  <TrueLight> He gives suggestions :)
17:18:43  <Darkvater> ah
17:18:50  <RichK67> well, i was frightened by all your previous commits... but a nice man did all the syncing for me while i was at work :)
17:19:05  <TrueLight> so you hope he does it this time again? :)
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17:19:16  <RichK67> yup - hope so :)
17:19:19  <TrueLight> haha
17:19:28  <TrueLight> Most in fact can be merged without any problem
17:19:35  <TrueLight> just the instances you have, have to be changed
17:19:45  <Darkvater> it's either indexes or indices
17:19:51  <RichK67> its only really anything that causes a savegame bump in trunk that causes any problems
17:20:13  <TrueLight> !spell indices
17:20:14  <_42_> TrueLight: & indices 19 0: induces, inducers, in dices, in-dices, ind ices, ind-ices, Indies, indites, inducer's, entices, induced, induce, undies, indices's, insides, indexes, inducer, endives, invoices
17:20:31  <TrueLight> Sorry Darkvater, but aspell doesn't know it :( Doesn't mean anything really, but still :)
17:20:36  <hylje> !spell boobs
17:20:37  <_42_> hylje: 'boobs' is correctly spelled
17:20:50  <Darkvater> TrueLight: office knows it :)
17:20:56  <TrueLight> now that really means something
17:20:57  <TrueLight> hahaha
17:21:03  <hylje> office doesnt know google
17:21:04  <TrueLight> Darkvater: you know that "hij vindt" was wrong in office? :)
17:21:14  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:21:19  <TrueLight> Darkvater: the word indeed exists
17:21:31  <TrueLight> (, and if you can't trust thatone...)
17:21:43  <TrueLight> Index \In"dex\, n.; pl. E. Indexes, L. Indices(?). [L.: cf.
17:21:43  <TrueLight>      F. index. See Indicate, Diction.]
17:21:53  <Darkvater> hehe
17:21:54  <hylje> you can trust uncyclopedia and undictionary
17:21:58  <Bjarni> according to, office will autocorrect microsoft to Microsoft, yet it do not know the word "macintosh"
17:22:01  <TrueLight> hylje: lol
17:22:12  <TrueLight> Bjarni: DAH!
17:22:26  <Darkvater> I retract my criticism to this particular assumed spelling-error of TrueLight
17:22:32  <TrueLight> :) Yeah!
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17:23:48  <Darkvater> yet I remain in my firm view that I was and still am correct
17:23:50  <Darkvater> hehe ^^
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17:24:05  <TrueLight> Of course of course
17:25:31  <Darkvater> :(
17:25:44  <Darkvater> error C2440: 'type cast' : cannot convert from 'WaypointID' to 'DestinationID'
17:25:51  <hylje> get back to coding :<
17:25:58  <TrueLight> Doesn't MSVC allow that?!
17:26:08  <Darkvater> apparently
17:26:19  <TrueLight> so you now have 3 errors
17:26:33  <TrueLight> so we need to make a temporary DestinationID
17:27:06  <Bjarni> <-- I'm adding a button to the order GUI and to make room for it, I had to do some not so great stuff. This is a unified GUI for all vehicle types
17:27:08  <Bjarni> any comments?
17:28:16  <Born_Acorn> It looks a tad messy.
17:28:41  <Born_Acorn> Would putting one row just under the window heading rectify that?
17:28:53  <Bjarni> I don't think so
17:28:57  <Bjarni> that would look really odd
17:29:00  <Bjarni> hmm
17:29:02  <Bjarni> or would it
17:29:19  <TrueLight> one row is too ugly with this new button
17:29:29  <grimrc1> can't the buttons fill the row space/
17:29:52  <Bjarni> it can, but then they become so big that they don't look nice
17:30:09  <hylje> one large "CRASH THIS VEHICLE" button to fill the rest of the space
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17:30:14  <Bjarni> so now we have to figure out usage for two more buttons ;)
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17:30:54  <TrueLight> Bjarni: enough to add :p
17:31:49  <CIA-2> truelight * r6146 /trunk/ (depot.c station_cmd.c waypoint.c): -Fix: MSVC doesn't know how to cast to an union.. so fix it via an indirect (and btw the old) way
17:32:00  <CIA-2> truelight * r6147 /trunk/openttd.h: -Fix: I don't know how to write Destination :(
17:33:03  <grimrc1> maybe the blank button space in the 2 rows should be merged?
17:33:27  <Tron> TrueLight: you didn't compile this, did you?
17:33:36  <TrueLight> I in fact did?
17:33:42  <Tron> hardly
17:33:44  <TrueLight> oh bah
17:33:58  <Tron> because you declared DestinationID dest; in another function than you used it
17:34:38  <grimrc1> the lowest button row lines up with the resize button, but the second row doesn't line up with anything particular (nearly lines up with down scroll button)
17:34:51  <CIA-2> truelight * r6148 /trunk/waypoint.c: -Fix r6146: mostly it is useful to declare a variable in the function you use it (tnx Tron)
17:36:12  <Bjarni> <-- the strings are still a bit off
17:36:15  <Bjarni> is that better?
17:36:32  <Bjarni> it will need a whole lot more work to work. Now I can't click the station name anymore
17:36:47  <TrueLight> Bjarni: that is just some widget case index changes
17:37:03  <Bjarni> yeah
17:37:03  <Tron> Bjarni: hm, maybe look at the line management of Simutrans as inspiration
17:38:36  <Bjarni> I don't have Simutrans
17:38:45  <Bjarni> it lacks an OSX port :(
17:40:27  <Bjarni> ahh, found a screenshot
17:40:28  <grimrc1> what does a road vehicle need non-stop for?
17:40:44  <TrueLight> told you Bjarni, people will ask :)
17:40:47  <Bjarni> grimrc1: they don't. That's why it's disabled
17:41:07  <Bjarni> it looked silly when removing the string as well
17:42:09  <TrueLight> Bjarni: remove string, and put it at the end
17:42:12  <TrueLight> so an empty button
17:42:14  <TrueLight> don't disable it
17:42:16  <TrueLight> maybe that helps?
17:42:40  <TrueLight> <- can someone check that work, I am not sure about thisone
17:43:08  <grimrc1> on r6122M it non-stop doesn't appear
17:43:30  <TrueLight> that M behind it does it :)
17:43:45  <TrueLight> grimrc1: it in fact can mean you have a program that say: hello world :)
17:44:18  <grimrc1> my modifications?
17:44:26  <TrueLight> yes :) Hehe :)
17:44:29  <TrueLight> but I got what you mean :)
17:44:35  <TrueLight> but it is Bjarni's patch he is working on
17:45:17  <grimrc1> what about a sideways scroller that scrolls the buttons hehe
17:45:40  <hylje> :o
17:45:42  <hylje> its lame
17:46:00  <TrueLight> <- I don't like that... I like the fast way you can give orders now
17:46:05  <TrueLight> but, that is just my taste
17:46:11  <grimrc1> a little, but they're all the same size so it wouldn't have to look too strange
17:48:00  <grimrc1> TrueLight: what about, clicking on 'loading' for example, changes the buttons at the bottom of the window to just 'full load', 'unload' & 'transfer' (and maybe some kind of 'back' button)
17:48:43  <TrueLight> grimrc1: I dunno
17:48:48  <TrueLight> but okay, talk to Bjarni :) Hehe ;)
17:49:20  <grimrc1> like 'loading ->' (a right arrow) and then new buttons with an extra '<-' left arrow button to go back
17:51:22  <Darkvater> Bjarni: it looks really messy
17:51:32  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what about
17:51:39  <Tron> <TrueLight> <- can someone check that work, I am not sure about thisone <-- what's the point? it turns iteration into recursion and adds a new function with a very similar name which begs to be confused
17:52:11  <TrueLight> Tron: all for the new pool system, which requires this
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17:53:01  <Tron> where does it need this?
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17:53:19  <Tron> it's exactly the same function, just written with recursion
17:53:28  <TrueLight> DeleteVehicle will be gone, is a call to the pool system freeing the item (which is hidden from the rest, no longer ->type = 0 shit)
17:53:35  <TrueLight> yes, and that is all I wanted to know
17:53:45  <TrueLight> if it still does the same
17:53:47  <Tron> uh...
17:53:56  <Tron> i didn't say it really does the same
17:54:05  <Tron> it just looks like it's the same at the first glance
17:54:20  <TrueLight> and I hope it also does in-depth :)
17:55:30  <Tron> what's the point of using 2 functions?
17:56:06  <TrueLight> DeleteXXX is handled by the pool system
17:56:12  <TrueLight> DestroyXXX is a callback when DeleteXXX is done
17:56:15  <Tron> just put v->type = 0 as the last line of DestroyVehicle()
17:56:21  <TrueLight> DeleteXXX will be gone from vehicle.h, but I need a temp thing
17:56:30  <TrueLight> no, that is the whole meaning of the 2 functions
17:56:42  <TrueLight> in the new pool system there is no need to put type to 0
17:56:47  <TrueLight> the pool system takes care of such things
17:57:02  <Tron> my stomach tells me i don't like this
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17:57:29  <Tron> a callback sounds like feeping creaturism
17:57:40  <Tron> or rather abstraction inversion
17:58:02  <TrueLight> the result is very nice, just I now need some temp stuff to get the conversion a bit cleaner
17:58:15  <Tron> abstraction inversion isn't nice
17:58:24  <TrueLight> !whatis abstraction inversion
17:58:29  <TrueLight> I still have to make that function...
17:59:09  <Tron> there should be a high level "remove this vehicle function" which in its inner workings returns the allocated vehicle memory to the pool
17:59:30  <Tron> not the other way round were a low level memory pool calls a high level function
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18:01:16  <TrueLight> this is what happens in fact
18:01:34  <TrueLight> just to ensure some uniformety within the code
18:01:38  <TrueLight> DeleteVehicle always calls inner work
18:01:41  <TrueLight> and DestroyVehicle
18:01:47  <TrueLight> to allow a function do custom things upon removing
18:01:49  <Tron> which happens in fact?
18:01:51  <TrueLight> to, for example, remove news
18:02:04  <Tron> i just presented two different schemata
18:02:13  <TrueLight> The first thing happens
18:02:22  <Tron> you just explained the other case
18:02:28  <TrueLight> There is a highlevel function, which calls the pool system to give an item free
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18:05:08  <CIA-2> truelight * r6149 /trunk/ (town.h town_cmd.c):
18:05:08  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteTown removes a town from the pool
18:05:08  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyTown is called by DeleteTown to remove all things where a town depends on.
18:05:08  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
18:06:03  <Tron> couldn't this mumbo jumbo be done in a branch?
18:06:11  <TrueLight> but Tron, I suggest you redirect those question to blathijs, as he is the author of this patch, which is on display for over a year now.
18:06:26  <Tron> why should i?
18:06:34  <Tron> you're doing it, so you're responsible
18:07:42  <Tron> and i still wait for an response that you just explained the case where a low level function calls a high level function
18:08:53  <TrueLight> Then I really have to ask you what you define as high level function
18:08:58  <RichK67> Bjarni: i did some work on the orders window a while ago including the %loading patch... is this of any use to you??
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18:10:07  <RichK67> sorry - this link is better -
18:10:19  <Tron> TrueLight: the stuff above the memory allocator (there is pretty much nothing below it)
18:10:35  <Tron> the functions which handle vehicles
18:10:45  <TrueLight> Tron: so, then I don't see how you can read my story from low to high
18:10:54  <Tron> and a memory allocator doesn't handle vehicles, it just handles junks of memory
18:11:04  <TrueLight> DeleteVehicle, high level, calls DestroyVehicle and calls low level release vehicle
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18:11:10  <Tron> TrueLight: you said there's a callback in the allocator
18:11:24  <Tron> [19:56:06] <TrueLight> DeleteXXX is handled by the pool system
18:11:24  <Tron> [19:56:12] <TrueLight> DestroyXXX is a callback when DeleteXXX is done
18:11:34  <TrueLight> Not from the allocator
18:11:40  <TrueLight> and in fact, it isn't even a callback
18:11:45  <TrueLight> Delete calls it
18:11:59  <Tron> _now_ you're getting incoherent
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18:12:26  <TrueLight> My english isn't that good that I can always translate a dutch word directly into english
18:12:30  <TrueLight> so from time to time I pick the wrong word
18:12:31  <TrueLight> happens
18:12:57  <TrueLight> and even in fact DestroyXXX is called before the XXX is free'd from the pool
18:13:04  <TrueLight> so: [20:11:04] <@TrueLight> DeleteVehicle, high level, calls DestroyVehicle and calls low level release vehicle
18:14:31  <Tron> i still don't get which calls what and which is part of what, because you pretty much told us all possible combinations by now
18:14:36  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	Bjarni: what about <-- is there a diff with that one?
18:14:37  <Tron> please restart at the beginning
18:14:59  <TrueLight> [20:11:04] <@TrueLight> DeleteVehicle, high level, calls DestroyVehicle and calls low level release vehicle
18:15:03  <Tron> a vehicle shall be removed
18:15:07  <Darkvater> Bjarni:
18:15:09  <Tron> what gets called?
18:15:14  <Tron> in which order?
18:15:15  <TrueLight> I think that says it all. DeleteVehicle is called by the rest of the code
18:15:20  <TrueLight> DestroyVehicle isn't allowed to be called
18:15:40  <TrueLight> Well, I Think that DeleteVehicle calls DestroyVehicle and then calls some memory-pool stuff to release the vehicle from the used-pool
18:15:44  <Tron> it doesn't say all. which is part of what?
18:15:49  <TrueLight> I really have no other way to tell it
18:15:55  <Tron> and having two functions with _very_ similar names is dangerous
18:16:09  <TrueLight> DeleteXXX shall always be used by the rest of the code
18:16:11  <TrueLight> Destroy never
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18:16:18  <TrueLight> and in fact, the names do what they say
18:16:35  <Tron> *shrug*
18:16:46  <TrueLight> Anyway, name suggestions are welcome
18:16:53  <Tron> which is part of what?
18:16:59  <TrueLight> What is part of what?
18:17:02  <Tron> where does DestroyVehicle() belong to?
18:17:11  <Tron> is it part of the memory allocator?
18:17:18  <Tron> is it part of the vehicle management code?
18:17:24  <TrueLight> Vehicle management of course
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18:17:41  <Tron> why does it exist in the first place?
18:17:56  <TrueLight> to force pool system (mostly high-level) to follow a certain way
18:18:04  <TrueLight> not that we get what wehave now
18:18:07  <TrueLight> one file follows A
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18:18:10  <TrueLight> the other follows B
18:18:20  <TrueLight> different naming (DoDeleteDepot against DeleteVehicle)
18:18:23  <TrueLight> stuff like that
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18:19:05  <Tron> i don't get the big picture
18:19:17  <TrueLight> maybe you should read blathijs' patch, FS#13
18:19:32  <TrueLight> or wait till I am done converting it so it applies against latest SVN
18:20:53  <Tron> at this point i want to repeat my earlier question:
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18:21:00  <Tron> if this change is this complex to implement
18:21:06  <Tron> why isn't it done in a branch?
18:21:16  <TrueLight> because it isn't complex
18:21:27  <Darkvater> hehe, nice going people :)
18:21:29  <TrueLight> All I have done so far is cleaning
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18:21:35  <Tron> it's about a dozen commits right now
18:21:38  <Tron> it consider this complex
18:21:42  <TrueLight> yes, and they are ONLY cleanup
18:21:50  <TrueLight> blathijs is a bit over enthousiastic
18:21:55  <TrueLight> so his patch is full of non related stuff
18:22:07  <TrueLight> and I am almost done committing all those non related things
18:22:19  <TrueLight> this is one of the cleanups to prepare the code for acceptance
18:23:11  <TrueLight> but most part was just cosmetic: DepotID, OrderID, ....
18:23:42  <TrueLight> hmm, I forgot RoadStopID...
18:27:17  <CIA-2> truelight * r6150 /trunk/ (openttd.h station.h station_cmd.c): -Codechange: introduced and used RoadStopID where needed
18:27:24  <TrueLight> ah, that is better
18:31:53  <Tron> with the introduction of the DestinationID union the code in RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles() is now technically wrong
18:32:16  <TrueLight> a bit more detail?
18:32:22  <Tron> if (v->current_order.type == type && v->current_order.dest.station == destination.station) {
18:32:37  <TrueLight> the unions are of the same size, so in fact it is okay
18:32:40  <TrueLight> but pretty it is not
18:32:40  <Tron> this line always checks the StationID part, no matter what the actual type is
18:32:58  <TrueLight> assert_compiles make sure it isn't a problem
18:33:27  <Tron> this sounds so overcomplicated (and still technically wrong)
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18:33:41  <Tron> why isn't DestinationID just an uint16?
18:34:00  <TrueLight> we considered the option, and dismissed it as this was a nicer option
18:34:32  <Tron> well, still looking for the paragraph, but i'm pretty sure it's undefined behavior
18:34:34  <Sacro_> whats the major change?
18:34:43  <TrueLight> Sacro_: nothing :)
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18:35:04  <Sacro> TrueLight: so whats blathijs' patch for?
18:35:07  <Tron> and having casts all over the place isn't "nicer" imo (or assignments now, because the casts didn't work)
18:35:15  <TrueLight> Sacro: in the end it makes faster pools, so faster NPF and other stuff
18:35:25  <Sacro> but arent we dropping NPF
18:35:31  <TrueLight> "all over the place" is 3 times
18:35:31  <Tron> NPF is pretty much dead
18:35:39  <TrueLight> the assignments were always there
18:36:11  <TrueLight> and they too, were considered carefully
18:36:21  <TrueLight> Sacro: I don't blathijs would agree :)
18:36:33  <TrueLight> +think
18:36:37  <TrueLight> somwhere ni that line
18:36:40  <Sacro> TrueLight: well YAPF is better
18:36:43  <TrueLight> (I think I type words I don't :p Very cool :))
18:36:49  <TrueLight> Sacro: that is your opinion :)
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18:37:30  <Sacro> TrueLight: well my opinion should be made a fact
18:37:35  <TrueLight> Sacro: okay
18:37:35  <TrueLight> :)
18:37:42  <TrueLight> if that makes you happy :)
18:38:10  <Sacro> oh it does
18:38:28  <hylje> TrueLight: you dont :p some words?
18:38:38  <TrueLight> hylje: ?
18:39:07  <hylje> eh, nvm
18:39:14  <Born_Acorn> NPFis now like NTP compared to YAPF :p
18:39:31  <TrueLight> Born_Acorn: then try a game with NTP :)
18:40:00  <Born_Acorn> I like to use newgrf waypoints anyway. :p
18:40:50  <Tefad> i am confused
18:41:03  <Tefad> is there a wiki page about NPF NTP YAPF?
18:41:09  <TrueLight> hehe
18:41:11  <hylje> pcmcia
18:41:20  <TrueLight> hylje: talking random words? :)
18:41:21  <Tefad> wysiwyg!
18:41:41  <hylje> TrueLight: people cant memorise complex industry acronyms
18:42:06  <TrueLight> KISS
18:42:38  <Sacro> most applications crash, if not the operating system hangs :(
18:46:33  <grimrc1> heh
18:46:51  <grimrc1> *I* got it
18:47:27  <Sacro> :P someone had to
18:47:31  <TrueLight> Tron: I can only find data that you can't assume any alignment (for example, it doesn't have to be in byte 0 and 1, the uint16). Nothing about that it possible not stores items of an union on different places, in fact, most even claim that you can savely use it like this
18:47:34  <Sacro> lws1984 hasnt noticed the insult yet
18:47:43  <lws1984> where?
18:47:56  * lws1984 looks around
18:48:06  <Sacro> ...
18:48:16  <lws1984> was it yours
18:48:17  <lws1984> ?
18:48:33  * lws1984 slaps Sacro around a bit with a Borg cube anyway
18:49:03  * Sacro inserts the borg cube up the wrong end of lws1984
18:49:19  <TrueLight> Okay, the english in there is a bit hard to find, but the intention is there
18:50:20  <grimrc1> yeah it's the thought that counts
18:50:33  <lws1984> AAH!
18:50:39  * lws1984 destroys Sacro
18:51:19  <grimrc1> when buying presents, ... and insulting people
18:51:57  <Tron> TrueLight: at <TrueLight> Tron: I can only find data that you can't assume any alignment (for example, it doesn't have to be in byte 0 and 1, the uint16). <--- § paragraph 14 explicitly states that this is incorrect
18:52:06  <TrueLight> url?
18:52:24  <Tron> 14 [...] A pointer to a union object, suitably converted, points to each of its members (or if a member is a bitfield, then to the unit in which it resides), and vice versa.
18:52:39  <Darkvater> we already have WindowEvent which brokes this
18:52:48  <Darkvater> brakes even
18:52:53  <Tron> Darkvater: ?
18:53:01  <grimrc1> breaks?
18:53:06  <Darkvater> yes
18:53:10  <grimrc1> that too
18:53:12  <Darkvater> no engrisch more
18:53:13  <TrueLight> Darkvater: explain?
18:53:14  <Darkvater> todaj
18:53:31  <TrueLight> Tron: I read tha tline 3 times now, and still don't get it
18:53:33  <Darkvater> windowevents?
18:53:43  <TrueLight> Darkvater: what about it? Tell more :p
18:54:15  <Darkvater> setting WindowEvent.event and reading it back through
18:54:16  <Tron> TrueLight: it simply states that all members of a union start at the beginning of the union. so the first part of your sentense was wrong, i therefore doubt the rest
18:54:26  *** e1ko_WrK is now known as e1ko
18:54:44  <TrueLight> Tron: it starts at the beginning of the union yes
18:55:02  <TrueLight> let me search something
18:55:10  <Tron> you just said you can't assume this
18:55:46  <Tron> Darkvater: interesting, event is just a byte and _not_ withing a structure.
18:55:49  <TrueLight> no, there is a subtile difference, but moment
18:56:12  <Darkvater> Tron: WindowEvent is a union
18:56:17  <Tron> Darkvater: the standard seems to only specify the behaviour of structures within unions
18:56:53  <Tron> Darkvater: yes, it's a union, but byte event; is just a byte, not a member of a structure, which is in a unions
18:56:58  <Tron> s/unions/union/
18:57:11  <Tefad> s/union/unicorn/
18:57:19  <TrueLight> but btw, Tron, the above says that what we do _is_ valid
18:57:37  <Tron> no, it doesn't
18:57:51  <TrueLight> all members start at the same pointer
18:57:54  <TrueLight> that is what it says, not?
18:58:03  <Tron> this is not equivalent to you may read from another name
18:58:53  <TrueLight> union
18:58:53  <TrueLight> {
18:58:53  <TrueLight> T c[4];
18:58:53  <TrueLight> struct
18:58:53  <TrueLight> {
18:58:54  <TrueLight> T c0, c1, c2, c3;
18:58:54  <TrueLight> }
18:58:56  <TrueLight> };
18:58:58  <TrueLight> };
18:58:58  <TrueLight> This is what I ment
18:59:06  <TrueLight> c[0] doesn't have to be c0 or c3 (depending on endian)
18:59:09  <TrueLight> compilers can padd
18:59:17  <TrueLight> -d
18:59:30  <TrueLight> That is the only warning I found about unions
18:59:33  <Tron> uh, no
18:59:46  <Tron> c[0] is at the exact same address as c0
18:59:53  <Tron> BUT
18:59:58  <Tefad> c[1] and c1 can be hosed
19:00:20  <Tron> this doesn't mean you may read a value which you wrote into c[0] by reading from c0
19:00:41  <TrueLight> they have the same pointer, but not the same value?
19:00:43  <Tefad> Tron: why not?
19:00:48  <Tron> Tefad: maybe, i have to check this
19:00:55  <TrueLight> that sounds funny
19:01:07  <Tefad> hosed meaning fubar, not linked, etc.
19:01:39  <Tron> Tefad: read from c0, write to c[0], read from c0 again, the compiler could optimise the second read to c0 away and reuse the first read value
19:01:58  <Tefad> that is the compiler's fault is it not?
19:02:00  <Tron> the exact semantics of unions are tricky
19:02:09  <Tron> Tefad: no, it's not an error
19:02:16  <Tefad> a compiler should not optimize like that
19:02:25  <Tron> says who? you?
19:02:32  <Tefad> says common sense?
19:02:51  <TrueLight> and it cna't happen in this situation we have here
19:03:13  <Tefad> if a union write/read from different conventions is hosed by an optimizing compiler. that compiler is broken.
19:03:24  <Tron> Tefad: no, simply wrong
19:03:35  <Tefad> what is wrong, the code or the compiler?
19:03:41  <Tron> your statement
19:03:48  <Tefad> meh?
19:04:54  <Tron>
19:04:58  <Tron> look at this
19:05:04  <Tron> straight from the standard
19:05:28  <Tron> "not a valid fragment" is Ansi speak for "program with undefined behaviour"
19:06:12  <Tron> this example doesn't exactly apply to this situation
19:06:24  <Tron> but there are no more examples in the standard about this topic
19:08:26  <Tefad> O_o
19:08:26  <Tefad> so it may or may not negate the int
19:08:26  <Tron> Tefad: in this example the compiler could simply reuse the first read value from p1->m
19:08:26  <Tefad> because it doesn't know to read p1's int again?
19:08:46  <Tefad> C is a tricky language
19:08:50  <Tefad> portable assembly my ass.
19:08:52  <Tron> aliasing is tricky
19:09:21  <Tron> you have to sacrifice certain behavoiur to enable optimisations at all
19:10:01  <Tron> well, on the other hand: how does for example java handle this? there are simply no unions, problem solved
19:10:13  <Tefad> heh
19:10:28  <Tron> that's the typical java approach: if the semantics is a bit more complex, drop it altogether
19:10:53  <Tefad> not a horrible thing to do
19:10:55  <Tron> there is certain defined behaviour for unions
19:11:06  <Tron> but afaict it only applies to structs in unions
19:11:43  <Tron> Tefad: and slowly they are readding all the stuff they removed, like enums and templates (though they use different names, of course)
19:11:56  <Tefad> heh
19:12:01  <Tefad> generics
19:12:04  <Tron> i just wait for the day they readd multiple inheritance
19:12:11  <Tefad> that will be fun
19:12:14  <Tron> or implement goto
19:12:28  <Tefad> well they have multiple inheritance with the..
19:12:36  <Tefad> what's it called, been too long
19:12:42  <Tron> no, they don't
19:12:47  <Tefad> to an extent
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19:12:51  <Tron> you just can implement multiple interfaces
19:12:55  <Tefad> ah there
19:12:59  <Tefad> interfaces.
19:13:06  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
19:13:12  <Tefad> loosely defined buggers anyway
19:13:15  <Tron> that's not multiple inheritance
19:13:48  <Tron> i know the answer why they don't do it, and it's not "programmers don't understand multiple inheritance" as the marketing department wants you make believe
19:13:57  <Tefad> heh
19:14:05  <CIA-2> truelight * r6151 /trunk/ (station.h station_cmd.c):
19:14:05  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteStation/DeleteRoadStop removes a station/RoadStop from the pool
19:14:05  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyStation/DestroyRoadStop is called by DeleteStation/DeleteRoadStop to remove all things where a station/RoadStop depends on.
19:14:05  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
19:14:09  <Tron> it just makes garbage collection a bit more tricky
19:14:10  <Tefad> how would you differentiate the data?
19:14:26  <Tefad> if data overlaps
19:14:35  <Tefad> i've forgotten my terminology
19:14:47  <Tron> overlapping data? in multiple inheritance?
19:14:51  <Tefad> yeah
19:14:56  <Tron> uh, there is none
19:15:17  <Tefad> meh, i need to read a book or something
19:15:21  <Tefad> i've lost all the terms
19:15:58  <Tron> hmhm, the Ansi standard really only talks about defined behaviour for structs in unions
19:16:34  <grimrc1> that example on your FTP is weird; why not allow that behaviour?
19:16:56  <Tron> grimrc1: ask the ANSI C commitee
19:16:58  <Tefad> what happens if there's two non-virtual methods in each class of a multiply inherited class that overlap?
19:17:20  <Tefad> grimrc1: look at the first function with no knowledge of the latter
19:17:33  <grimrc1> so unions are evil?
19:17:47  <Tron> Tefad: in C++ you have to explicitly state the superclass to make it definite which of the two functions you want to call
19:17:53  <Tefad> wouldn't it be easy to skip the read and use a cached value for the last if condition?
19:17:53  <Tron> grimrc1: just tricky
19:18:11  <Tefad> Tron: if you don't, you get a compiler error?
19:18:14  <grimrc1> passing this &u.s1, &u.s2 seems totally reasonable
19:18:34  <Tron> Tefad: yes, it doesn't know which one to call
19:18:42  <Tron> grimrc1: it's a friggin example
19:18:51  <CIA-2> truelight * r6152 /trunk/station_cmd.c: -Codechange: renamed GetNumRoadStops to GetNumRoadStopsInStation as it reflects its function more
19:19:00  <Tefad> grimrc1: did you read my comment
19:19:10  <Tron> these two addresses could have ended up there by totally different code and data paths
19:19:25  <grimrc1> Tron: yeah, but I'm trying to guess why they wouldn't want allow it - surely there's a reason
19:19:29  <Tron> it's just a very small example to show what the problem is
19:19:42  <Tefad> Tron: what happens if that happens ligitimately
19:19:42  <Tron> grimrc1: read Tefad's comment
19:19:56  <Tefad> both pointers end up pointing at the same thing
19:20:01  <Tron> Tefad: you mean the union is declared earlier?
19:20:13  <Tefad> no. someone just passes the same address in manually
19:20:27  <Tron> Tefad: simple: at this point the compiler knows these two types could alias and MUSN'T optimise the second read to p1->m away
19:20:39  <Tron> Tefad: i don't understand
19:20:47  <Tefad> even if the function is in a separate file from the call?
19:20:49  <Tron> what do you mean by manually passing the same address?
19:21:00  <Tron> it IS the same address
19:21:05  <Tefad> i know
19:21:10  <Tefad> but IT doesn't know that
19:21:18  <Tron> but the compiler may assume - because they are different types - that they do NOT alias
19:21:43  <Tefad> still wonky behavior to me
19:21:44  <TrueLight> okay, Tron, an other way to explain the Delete and Destroy thing, I finally thought up a clear way to tell you:
19:21:50  <Tron> so unless the compiler saw the union declaration before this point it may assume the two pointers cannot alias
19:21:59  <grimrc1> what is C aliasing?
19:22:07  <Tefad> O_o
19:22:18  <Tron> aliasing means two different names for the same thing
19:22:18  <TrueLight> DeleteXXX handles all the stuff, removing stuff from pool or marking it as free or what ever. Stuff you don't want to touch often, is the same for all pools, and bla. They go in the include-file.
19:22:39  <TrueLight> DestroyXXX does the stuff that is different for every XXX, will change from time to time, and you do not want this in your include-file
19:22:46  <grimrc1> like like bash or the actual word alias
19:23:01  <TrueLight> short: try to hide from the programmer what is needed to free up a XXX, while showing him what is done to free it within the game
19:23:07  <Tefad> int *foo, *bar, baz; foo = *baz; bar = *baz; foo and bar point to the same thing.. similar to what we're talking about (probably not on the same scale)
19:23:08  <TrueLight> remove the pool from the rest of the stuff
19:23:14  <TrueLight> I think that pretty much covers it
19:23:25  <Tron> TrueLight: i still don't get the point why there are two functions, if the former just calls the latter and nobody else does, it should be one functions
19:23:30  <Tron> s/s$//
19:23:37  <TrueLight> Tron: the one goes in the include file
19:23:39  <TrueLight> the other doesn't
19:23:41  <Tron> WHY?
19:23:44  <TrueLight> the first is the same for EVERY pool
19:23:46  <Tron> this makes no sense
19:23:48  <TrueLight> so you know which function to call
19:23:51  <TrueLight> unification
19:24:01  <Tron> they can't be the same
19:24:09  <Tron> they act on different pools
19:24:10  <TrueLight> as I said: no we have DoDeleteDepot and DeleteVehicle
19:24:13  <Tron> they have different names
19:24:14  <TrueLight> does that make sense?
19:24:35  <Tron> except for the "Do"?
19:24:37  <Tefad> this game sounds like it totally needs OOP
19:24:46  <TrueLight> exactly that Do part is the rpoblem
19:24:47  <Tron> yes, makes perfect sense: one deletes a depot and the other a vehicle
19:24:59  <TrueLight> Also, one takes a tile, the other takes a pointer
19:25:01  <TrueLight> who would have guessed
19:25:06  <Tron> TrueLight: i really have no idea what you're trying to tell me
19:25:08  <TrueLight> this way you unify the whole system
19:25:13  <TrueLight> oh well, at least I tried
19:25:28  <Tron> <TrueLight> this way you unify the whole system <--- you just stated that there is nothing to unify
19:25:36  <Tron> different names, different parameters
19:25:40  <Tron> what could be unified?
19:25:41  <TrueLight> Euh....
19:25:44  <Tron> make all a void*?
19:25:46  <TrueLight> the only thing I am stating
19:25:48  <TrueLight> is unification
19:25:52  <Tefad> YAY void* solves everything
19:25:55  * Tefad shuts up
19:25:59  <TrueLight> good boy :)
19:26:07  <Tron> Tefad: it is way more OO than you think
19:26:31  <Tefad> i started seeing message loops and stopped looking at the code.
19:27:12  <Tron> Tefad: don't tell me you never saw a message pipe in an OO program
19:27:12  <TrueLight> Tron: yet an other way: the only marks like: if (xy == 0) and ->xy = 0, are now ONLY in the include file
19:27:18  <TrueLight> in simple wrappers
19:27:38  <Tron> why?
19:27:42  <Tron> makes no sense
19:27:48  <Tefad> ok C is not object oriented.
19:27:55  <Tron> there should be one DeleteVehicle() function
19:27:59  <Tefad> i saw OO stuff, therefore i bailed.
19:28:04  <Tron> Tefad: Java isn't either
19:28:08  <grimrc1> oh now I get it!!! I forgot what a union was!  I was reading it like struct - DOH!
19:28:11  <Tefad> meaning the code is probably going to be crazy.
19:28:28  <Tefad> anything with basic types is probably not object oriented eh?
19:28:32  <Tefad> int float etc.
19:28:44  <Tefad> depends on how you perceive object oriented.
19:28:47  <Tron> this single DeleteVehicle() function should do all the stuff: release a RoadSlot, if necessary, ... and finally return the memory to the pool
19:28:58  <Tron> i see no need for two functions
19:29:24  <Tron> Tefad: OO isn't a sufficient paradigm per se
19:29:38  <CIA-2> truelight * r6153 /trunk/ (signs.c signs.h):
19:29:38  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteSign removes a sign from the pool
19:29:38  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroySign is called by DeleteSign to remove all things where a sign depends on.
19:29:38  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
19:29:47  <Tefad> it's like doing OO in assembly
19:29:56  <Tefad> (OO in C)
19:29:57  *** MaulingMonkey_ [] has joined #openttd
19:29:59  <Tron> Tefad: you can't make a programming language, which is "just" OO and nothing else
19:30:06  <Tefad> right
19:30:14  <Tefad> but the language can be friendly to OO programmers
19:30:19  <Tefad> or make the programmer reinvent the wheel
19:30:26  <Tron> it's just a certain view ontop of another paradigm
19:30:36  <Tron> and a language can support this view
19:30:55  <Tefad> i know the first C++ compiler tranlated first into C
19:30:59  <grimrc1> isn't &u.s1 == &u.s2, in which case I still can't see the problem :<(
19:31:12  <Tefad> grimrc1: that is correct
19:31:20  <Tefad> but that's the problem itself.
19:31:25  <Tefad> look at the first function.
19:31:28  <Tron> Tefad: a compiler may return false for this
19:31:34  <grimrc1> so shouldn't the compiler notice that in the first function?
19:31:44  <Tefad> to the compiler, it thinks the arguements CANT be the same (or it assumes so)
19:31:46  <TrueLight> Tron: maybe you don't see the need for 2 functions, maybe you don't see the bigger picture here. I myself find it very logic to split the pieces as they are in fact 2 pieces. I am not alone in this. So maybe you just have to wait till the bigger picture gets visible
19:31:55  <Tron> in fact a good optimising compiler will give a warning (for incompatible pointers) and always return false
19:32:22  <Tron> TrueLight: i saw the blathijs diff and still fail to see it, maybe there is no big picture
19:32:26  <Tefad> grimrc1: compilers don't generally take the value of a variable, only its type into account.
19:33:57  <Tefad> that sentence needs work: compilers generally only look at the type of the variable, not its value.
19:34:07  <grimrc1> ok I learnt something today; unions can be evil
19:34:19  <Tefad> depends on the union's scope
19:34:40  <Tefad> and i tend to stay away from unions
19:34:58  <Tefad> generally only using them within ONE function (not passing arguments out of it either)
19:35:01  <grimrc1> Tefad: yeah I get you, but I always thought a it was a compiler's responsibility to check that it's not clobbering a bit of memory that it's going to read later, since there are so many ways to access bits of memory in C
19:35:17  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
19:35:19  *** MaulingMonkey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35:30  *** MaulingMonkey_ is now known as MaulingMonkey
19:35:53  <Tron> grimrc1: if the standard says it may assume that pointers to different types may not overlap it's perfectly valid to assume this
19:36:08  <grimrc1> so if you move the union defintion to make it global, problem solved?
19:36:17  <Tron> and the standard says this: pointers to different types may not alias
19:36:30  <Tefad> ah ha
19:36:31  <Tron> grimrc1: in this case yes
19:36:40  <Tefad> would that defeat the standard?
19:36:42  <Tefad> : x
19:36:53  <grimrc1> so the fault is in function 2 for even having the audacity to pass aliased pointers!?
19:37:04  <Tefad> grimrc1: pretty much.
19:37:07  <Tron> Tefad: no, the standard explicitly states the behaviour in this case
19:37:13  <Tefad> ah.
19:37:25  <Tefad> welcome to #C_101
19:37:32  <grimrc1> so now I really *really* get it; passing aliased pointers is taboo
19:37:48  <grimrc1> more like C_102
19:38:00  <Tefad> heh
19:38:35  <grimrc1> we don't use that notation for courses in the UK you know
19:38:39  <Tefad> grimrc1: it is taboo especially if the arguements of the function are different types
19:38:48  <Tron> Tefad: reload the file, i added another example from the standard
19:39:04  <Tron> <grimrc1> so now I really *really* get it; passing aliased pointers is taboo <--- not necessarily
19:39:37  <Tefad> i lost the URL and i have no hilighting in this client
19:39:46  <Tron>
19:40:29  <Tron> this is a "positive" example
19:40:42  <CIA-2> truelight * r6154 /trunk/openttd.h: -Cleanup: ordered the IDs that have to do with pools from the others
19:41:05  <Tefad> i've done stuff like that before
19:41:11  <Tefad> but it is akin to RTTI is it not?
19:41:44  <Tron> yes and no
19:41:51  <Tefad> i was taught that RTTI is not really a good thing
19:42:11  <Tron> most often it is used in places where it shouldn't, yes
19:42:12  <Tefad> and that if it is needed, then the code is bad.
19:42:37  *** Tino|Home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:42:39  <Tefad> however, i've forgotten what steps need to be taken to avoid situations like that
19:42:54  <Tefad> and java doesn't really help me avoid RTTI ; )
19:43:25  <Tron> yes, until 1.5 you had to do dynamic casts every time you used generic containers etc.
19:43:28  <Tefad> java has crap like "isinstance or something eh?
19:43:44  <Tefad> bleh spurious quote
19:44:03  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:44:03  <Tefad> i've coded in java before.. made a huffman codec : D
19:44:15  <Tefad> and a file handling front end
19:44:28  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: muss wech]
19:44:34  <Tefad> using 1.5 iirc
19:45:10  <Tefad> the front end is interesting to say the least.
19:45:32  <Tron> Swing?
19:45:34  <Tron> awful
19:45:52  <Tefad> eh, the interface is just a button
19:45:56  <Tefad> oh, two
19:46:11  <Tefad> open and encode/decode (it is dynamic! hehehehe)
19:46:38  <Tefad> and i have a cheesy hack to keep the UI from locking
19:47:17  <CIA-2> truelight * r6155 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c:
19:47:17  <CIA-2> -Codechange: split Destroy routine from SpriteGroupPoolCleanBlock
19:47:17  <CIA-2>  Last change is to prepare for new pool system.
19:48:04  <grimrc1> Tefad: cheesy hack - so not threaded?
19:48:21  <Tefad> it is
19:48:24  <Tefad> that's what the hack does
19:48:34  <grimrc1> oh - like your own threading hack?
19:48:35  <hnsn> sweden!
19:48:38  <Tefad> disables all the GUI stuff, then calls the thread
19:48:43  <Tefad> or similar
19:48:48  <Tefad> i forget, i'll have to look at my code
19:49:37  <Tefad> hmm, i'd found some crap called SwingWorker
19:51:54  <CIA-2> truelight * r6156 /trunk/ (industry.h industry_cmd.c):
19:51:54  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteIndustry removes an industry from the pool
19:51:54  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyIndustry is called by DeleteIndustry to remove all things where a industry depends on.
19:51:54  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
19:52:38  <Darkvater> boo, it's not pretty
19:53:01  * TrueLight slaps Darkvater around with a linux manual
19:53:33  *** terje [] has quit [Quit: terje]
19:54:11  <Tefad> hmm i found a "bug" in my GUI heh
19:54:22  <Tefad> not all of the GUI is locked while processing goes on
19:54:36  <Tefad> er, disabled, not "locked"
19:56:09  <grimrc1> the console is currently at revision 7 - do we just bump the revision each time a command is added/improved?
19:59:06  <TrueLight> grimrc1: no, never :)
19:59:14  <TrueLight> last time that happeend... pfpffff
19:59:24  <TrueLight> r2243
19:59:24  <TrueLight> hehe
20:00:36  <grimrc1> nearly finished this gui hiding patch - it doesn't interfere with much; just exposes functions in the console
20:01:56  <Tefad> i went way overboard with this thing. custom huffman tables for each file. storage of table varies with size, length of file. so a 500byte file has possibility to be compressed. as does a 2G file. no idea if it does >2G.
20:05:06  <grimrc1> what command do you guys use to make patches?  svn diff?
20:07:54  <grimrc1> do any windows use the transparency provided by DrawFrameRect()?  I'd like to see it
20:09:27  <CIA-2> truelight * r6157 /trunk/ (vehicle.c vehicle.h):
20:09:27  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DeleteVehicle removes a vehicle from the pool
20:09:27  <CIA-2> -Codechange: DestroyVehicle is called by DeleteVehicle to remove all things where a vehicle depends on.
20:09:27  <CIA-2>  Last 2 changes to prepare for new pool system. Not pretty now, will be soon.
20:09:58  <Darkvater> still not pretty?
20:09:59  <Darkvater> damnz
20:10:15  <TrueLight> :)
20:10:16  <Tron> TrueLight: ok, i reread blathijs' diff again
20:10:24  <Tron> DestroyVehicle has exactly 0 callers
20:10:33  <TrueLight> Darkvater: 8 pools in the system, you wanted small commits :)
20:10:39  <TrueLight> Tron: check the macros
20:10:45  <Tron> OMG
20:10:54  <Tron> please NOT
20:11:07  <TrueLight> I am not sure yet that is the best approach
20:11:10  <TrueLight> but I haven't touched it yet
20:11:13  <Tron> it isn't
20:11:19  <TrueLight> that is the real part of the job
20:11:21  <Tron> you can't grep it
20:11:27  <TrueLight> that are the downsides
20:11:29  <TrueLight> that you miss easy lookup
20:11:31  <Tron> and i bet no IDE gets it right either
20:11:35  <TrueLight> the upside is that they are always correct
20:11:49  <TrueLight> so I will think about other solutions
20:11:52  <TrueLight> suggestions are welcome
20:12:44  <TrueLight> it took me a long while to notice RandomTown came from there :p
20:12:48  <TrueLight> so I understand what you mean
20:13:28  <Tron> + /* Call the callback before freeing the drop */
20:13:28  <Tron> + if (proc) proc(pool, drop, index);
20:13:34  <Tron> so you told the truth
20:13:41  <Tron> it's abstraction inversion
20:13:52  <TrueLight> Remember that what is in the patch now
20:13:52  <Tron> the low level function calls up into higher levels
20:13:55  <TrueLight> doesn't need to be applied
20:14:01  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
20:14:19  <Tron> but your current changes exactly suggest that
20:14:30  <TrueLight> Tron: not really, I just like code seperation
20:14:33  <TrueLight> more then you do clearly :)
20:14:45  <TrueLight> First: what is wrong with low calling high, besides that the line alone suggests it ;)
20:14:51  <Tron> DeleteFOO + DestroyFOO exactly point into this direction
20:15:09  <TrueLight> as I tried to explain, I like the seperation, but okay
20:16:13  <Tron> there is no need for seperation because there is nothing to separate, except if you do it the way blathijs suggests
20:16:20  <TrueLight> First: what is wrong with low calling high, besides that the line alone suggests it ;)
20:17:03  <Tron> higher levels use the level below them to implement functionality
20:17:13  <Tron> simple principle of software layering
20:17:21  <TrueLight> acceptable
20:17:27  <Tron> not only software, btw
20:17:44  <Tron> you build houses out of simpler components, too
20:18:00  <Tron> doing it the other way round makes no sense
20:18:23  <TrueLight> bad example, as in software you can do it the other way around, with houses you can't ;) :)
20:18:27  <TrueLight> But okay
20:18:33  <Tron> inverting this scheme in places complicates control flow
20:18:45  <TrueLight> What I tried to do
20:18:54  <TrueLight> is that Delete handles all the stuff that is the same for every pool
20:19:02  <TrueLight> Call Destroy, remove from pool, clean up, what ever
20:19:08  <TrueLight> and make Destroy different for every pool
20:19:35  <Tron> returning an item to the pool is a single call
20:19:37  <TrueLight> just to avoid the mess we have now, everyone doing his own method, which isn't always perfect
20:19:38  <Tron> that's the only common line
20:19:50  <TrueLight> yeah, and even that they fuck up :p But okay, I am not sure it stays 1 line
20:20:10  <Tron> there is nothing to return to a pool, atm
20:20:10  <TrueLight> as it might need to lookup the item from the pool too
20:20:18  <Tron> so nobody can fuck this up
20:20:26  <TrueLight> but I agree with you that the destroy call should not be done from that level
20:20:39  <TrueLight> you would be amazed what they can fuck up...
20:20:48  <Tron> there is no call
20:20:55  <Tron> there's nothing there atm
20:21:00  * Sacro scratches his head
20:21:15  <TrueLight> I mean, the single line call to free the item in the pool
20:21:25  * Darkvater is confused as well but keeps a respectable silence
20:21:41  <TrueLight> Anyway, an other example I just came across: RoadStop didn't have a Delete function
20:21:46  <TrueLight> but it did deleting in functions
20:21:47  <Sacro> Darkvater: until now ;)
20:21:50  <TrueLight> one time via A, other time via B
20:21:55  <Tron> Darkvater: don't worry, i'm confused, too. and it gets worse by the minute
20:22:48  <Darkvater> so wait the problem is that the lowest-pool-remove function calls a higher, object-specific function to do the special stuff?
20:22:59  <Tron> i see many parallels to NPF
20:23:07  <Tron> it uses function pointers all over the place, too
20:23:11  <TrueLight> Darkvater: the patch suggests that yeah, although we will not implement that
20:23:22  <Tron> which - among other things - makes it dead slow
20:23:35  <Darkvater> so what IS the problem?
20:23:50  <Darkvater> I might as well get to know it now that I've joined the discussion ;p
20:24:53  <TrueLight> Darkvater: Tron doesn't like DestroyXXX _and_ DeleteXXX
20:25:00  <TrueLight> where I find it logic to make a seperation at that level
20:25:17  <Tron> that's only part of the problem
20:25:22  <Tron> rather a side effect
20:25:25  <TrueLight> oh, there is more?
20:25:35  <Tron> how often do i have to repeat myself?
20:25:45  <MeusH> I think it is a matter of naming. AFAIK one of these functions call other functions, including The Other Function
20:26:02  <Tron> this artifical separation exactly leads to the layering violation
20:26:07  <TrueLight> Tron: that I wonder myself to, but Darkvater doesn't know the problem yet, so you might want to fill him in
20:26:33  <TrueLight> so, by having 2 functions, and calling from up to down, there is layering violation?
20:26:45  <Tron> you don't do that
20:26:51  <TrueLight> Where don't I do that?
20:26:59  <Born_Acorn> Wow. SVN Digest issue 85 is the first one I've had that is all trunk. :p
20:27:12  <TrueLight> Born_Acorn: hehe :)
20:27:50  <Tron> the only reason i see (and there is) for this separation is to do it in the wrong order
20:28:04  <TrueLight> even if I tell you it won't be used like that
20:28:06  <TrueLight> cool
20:28:08  <MeusH> let's port to java and let garbage collector do the work :o
20:28:12  <MeusH> oh, that idea was too silly
20:28:28  <TrueLight> good you know that yourself :)
20:28:37  <TrueLight> in fact I stopped reading after java
20:28:39  <TrueLight> no, after port
20:28:39  <TrueLight> :p
20:29:33  <Darkvater> I stopped reading after I saw who said it
20:29:36  <Darkvater> ^^
20:29:40  <MeusH> very funny
20:29:41  <MeusH> amazing
20:29:46  <TrueLight> Darkvater wins :)
20:29:51  <Sacro> i just realised that nearly everything on my mates web design company is a lie :(
20:30:01  <Sacro> and worse still...i work for him D:
20:30:10  <Born_Acorn> "Sacro is cool" features prominently then?
20:30:12  * Born_Acorn hides
20:30:14  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: i wish
20:30:17  <TrueLight> Sacro: I have a mates web HOST company who has that....
20:30:27  <MeusH> Sacro: what's wrong?
20:30:31  <TrueLight> and I host him :p Hehehehehe :)
20:30:33  <Sacro> TrueLight: dont let orudge hear that ;)
20:30:37  <TrueLight> it aint orudge :)
20:30:42  <TrueLight> orudge is a nice fellow
20:30:46  <TrueLight> no, some other ass
20:30:49  <Darkvater> so if we agree we won't use this layering violation what remains to be a problem Tron, TrueLight ?
20:30:51  <Sacro> MeusH: i need a job, i just realised how shoddy my mates company is
20:30:55  <TrueLight> claiming having tons of servers.. he has 1 :p
20:31:06  <Born_Acorn> Sacro, Work at Tescos!
20:31:06  <TrueLight> Darkvater: I seriously have no idea
20:31:08  <Born_Acorn> Or Lidl!
20:31:24  <Born_Acorn> Or PC World!
20:31:43  <Born_Acorn> Or all three on shifts!
20:31:49  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: im waiting to hear from their bakery (tesco), Lidl is miles away, and PC World are a bunch of arses
20:32:19  <Born_Acorn> It doesn't matter if they are arses, It's you they'll be paying. :p
20:32:38  <grimrc1> learn poker
20:32:50  <Born_Acorn> You could secretly install Linux on the display computers too!
20:33:02  <grimrc1> hehe
20:33:14  *** Peach [] has joined #openttd
20:33:25  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: true..., but i detest them
20:33:41  <Sacro> and my boss claims to be "proficient in Shockwave (both on and offline media), Java, HTML, PHP, Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Fireworks, Flash, and Adobe Creative Suite CS2."
20:35:01  <Sacro> he has no idea when it comes to actual HTML, or PHP, or Java, or CSS...
20:35:28  <Darkvater> perhaps he means hi is proficien as in his company
20:35:36  <Sacro> he's just (yet another) monkey with an apple mac :(
20:35:53  <Sacro> Darkvater: well, apart from me, nobody else seems to know about web standards
20:35:58  <TrueLight> Sacro: he knows the terms, that is something, not?
20:36:24  <TrueLight> Sacro: I once had someone claiming to know PHP.. he send some code, looked good.. till I googled on it! Found it in some OS project, not realted to him :)
20:37:04  <Sacro> TrueLight: he has no php knowledge
20:37:19  <Sacro> he's just been fixing around 10 sites since register_globals was disabled on his server... D:
20:37:20  <grimrc1> why were they sending you PHP code in the first place?
20:37:35  <TrueLight> grimrc1: screening policy
20:37:40  <TrueLight> a lot of people CLAIM to know PHP
20:37:42  <TrueLight> but in fact don't
20:37:44  <grimrc1> for a job?
20:37:46  <TrueLight> yeah
20:37:50  <TrueLight> so they send some code to show
20:37:50  <grimrc1> oh cool
20:37:55  <TrueLight> then they get an assignment
20:37:59  <TrueLight> 50% fails on the first
20:38:02  <TrueLight> 40% on the latter
20:38:05  <Sacro> he also claims to be able to do Search Engine Optimisation, yet he still uses frames, meta tags and "hidden" text
20:38:15  <TrueLight> (real stats btw!)
20:38:17  <Sacro> TrueLight: any work going?
20:38:23  <grimrc1> heh cool TrueLight
20:38:38  <TrueLight> really idiotic how many people go for a job and don't have to knowledge....
20:38:40  <grimrc1> is that 90% or 50% + (40% of 50%)?
20:38:50  <TrueLight> the worst one I have seen: he has been in that company for 1 week
20:38:51  <TrueLight> then he quit
20:38:57  <TrueLight> coding wasn't really what he liked to do
20:39:03  <Darkvater> lol
20:39:12  <Darkvater> what an idiot
20:39:25  <Sacro> TrueLight: ive just caused a fight by telling him that meta tags go in <head> and not <body>, and that text where color == background-color tends to get you blacklisted by google
20:39:44  <TrueLight> hehe
20:39:46  <Tefad> nice
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20:39:56  <TrueLight> never fight with your boss, just tell him to shove it up his ass :p
20:40:08  <TrueLight> (okay, bad advise :p)
20:40:17  <Sacro> think i might start my own company, and slowly start taking his contracts
20:40:19  <grimrc1> Sacro: why don't you just let him fail miserably if he's not nice about criticism?
20:40:31  <Tefad> the guy i work with isn't very computer literate, but he's up with technology
20:40:34  <Sacro> all sites validate under XHTML 1.1, as does CSS
20:40:47  <Sacro> no ability for cross site scripting or SQL injection attacks
20:41:03  <Sacro> :|
20:41:04  <Tefad> 70+ year old guy doing multivariable(and higher) calculus
20:41:15  <Sacro> Tefad: nice
20:41:17  <TrueLight> Sacro: do start your own company :) I did
20:41:19  <TrueLight> was a good move
20:41:29  <Tefad> he started two companies, and has sold both of them
20:41:32  <Sacro> TrueLight: yeah, but ive no idea how to start, im not that good with graphics
20:41:40  <Tefad> now he's retired and pays me to help him with his book
20:41:44  <TrueLight> Sacro: then it is a bit hard
20:41:57  <Tefad> i handle most of the computer stuff (programming, data visualization)
20:42:10  <Sacro> TrueLight: im waiting for my new pc...then i can run Photoshop and stuff
20:42:32  <Tefad> i check some of his calculus (mainly algebra, but sometimes i have to differentiate ginormous equations)
20:42:38  <Sacro> im just after finding a company that needs PHP/MySQL/CSS work
20:42:51  <TrueLight> hehe
20:42:58  <Tefad> Sacro: have you tried craigslist?
20:43:14  <Sacro> Tefad: no, i havent
20:43:19  *** MaulingMonkey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43:28  <Tefad>, see if they have your region
20:43:30  *** MaulingMonkey_ is now known as MaulingMonkey
20:44:08  <Sacro> hmm
20:45:14  <Sacro> ooh, w4m
20:45:47  *** MaulingMonkey_ [] has joined #openttd
20:46:34  <Sacro> no jobs :(
20:49:39  <michi_cc> Darkvater: r6139 broke cases in strings. check the last line of GetStringsWithArgs()
20:50:29  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
20:51:32  <JohnUK89> Ello all :)
20:51:34  *** MaulingMonkey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:51:39  <Darkvater> michi_cc: you are right
20:51:46  *** MaulingMonkey_ is now known as MaulingMonkey
20:51:58  <Sacro> [21:53] <JohnUK89> Ello all :) <- oh noes
20:52:02  *** Dred_furst` [] has joined #openttd
20:52:12  <JohnUK89> Sacro: that's OLD
20:52:14  <JohnUK89> lol
20:52:32  <Sacro> hmm
20:53:54  <michi_cc> Darkvater: a new param would probably the cleanest solution, but it's used in several places where the param wouldn't be used
20:54:05  <JohnUK89> <downloading java runtime, tis annoying that it takes well over an hour :-\
20:54:19  <Sacro> JohnUK89: heh, isnt it on that dvd?
20:54:34  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6158 /trunk/ (strings.c strings.h): -Revert r6139 as that breaks strings with cases. Thanks michi_cc
20:54:34  <JohnUK89> Sacro: ooh good point, I'll check
20:55:47  * Sacro grabs his nun shooting equipment
20:56:32  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:45  <JohnUK89> Sacro: nope, it's not on there :(
20:56:56  <Darkvater> Sacro: BBC1
20:57:08  <Sacro> Darkvater: err...just HOW do you know that?
20:57:17  <Darkvater> EH...
20:57:20  <Darkvater> I was watching that
20:57:21  * Darkvater blushes
20:57:37  <Sacro> in .nl?
20:57:51  <Sacro> i hope you've paid your tv licence
20:58:03  <Darkvater> it's on cable
20:58:04  <Tefad> tv license?
20:58:10  <Tefad> other countries are so weird
20:58:18  <Darkvater> yeah, British are really anal about tv-licenses
20:58:22  <Tefad> (tongue in cheek)
20:58:35  * Sacro posts to
20:59:09  <Darkvater> my father lived in England for a year in a rental and the tv-company even came by to check the apartment that there really is no tv in there
20:59:15  <Darkvater> because he refused to pay any fees
20:59:26  <Tefad> hah
20:59:36  <edeca_> That's quite common.
20:59:40  <Tefad> how do they check for crap like pocket TVs
20:59:44  <edeca_> They work on the assumption that you have a TV, unfortunately.
20:59:49  <Darkvater> they stripsearch you ;p
21:00:00  <Sacro> Darkvater: yeah, you have to declare that you dont have one
21:00:05  <Sacro> and they can come and check
21:00:06  <edeca_> We paid our license one year and still received threatening letters for 6 months
21:00:10  <Tefad> just like MPAA and RIAA assume you're watching shit illegally...
21:00:13  <Sacro> Tefad: portables are fine
21:00:23  <edeca_> Sacro: They can, but you don't have to let them in unless they have a court order, if I remember correctly
21:00:27  <Tefad> no license for portable tv?
21:00:32  <Darkvater> that's bull
21:00:44  <Darkvater> last I've read they even want licenses on pc's cause you can watch tv on that
21:00:49  <edeca_> You require a license for any device that can "receive or record a television signal"
21:00:54  <Sacro> yes, they came knocking about mine :(
21:00:55  <Darkvater> so I doubt portables would be all right
21:01:11  <Tefad> heh
21:01:14  <Sacro> Darkvater: afaik, its only things with a power lead requirement
21:01:21  <edeca_> That is completely incorrect.
21:01:34  <JohnUK89> It's any device that can receive and display TV signals
21:01:42  <Tefad> heh, get think geek's cordless extension cord ; )
21:01:43  <Sacro> heh, they keep getting our tenants
21:01:46  <Darkvater> o_O smartphones ;p
21:01:49  <edeca_> "  If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one."
21:02:04  <edeca_> So yeah, what I said earlier :)
21:02:05  <JohnUK89> Darkvater: exactly, you need a license for them
21:02:29  <Darkvater> I cannot understand how they can be so backwards
21:02:34  <Tefad> interesting, i'd need a device for the VGA tuner i have
21:02:37  <edeca_> It pays for the BBC! :)
21:02:42  <Sacro> :o debbie does dallas uncovered!
21:02:49  <edeca_> Tefad: Yeah, if they're smart enough to spot it ;)
21:02:54  * Darkvater loves the BBC
21:02:55  <edeca_> Sacro: Got to love Channel 4
21:02:56  <Tefad> external tuner mind you
21:03:01  <Tefad> just plugs into a monitor : D
21:03:10  <Darkvater> but they abolished this in Holland years and years ago, still we have NED1/2/3
21:03:20  <edeca_> Do they have adverts?
21:03:25  <Sacro> BBC? no
21:03:27  <Darkvater> yes, some
21:03:32  <edeca_> I wasn't talking about the BBC.
21:03:43  <edeca_> Darkvater: Ah, the BBC isn't allowed advertising like that
21:03:49  <edeca_> Darkvater: Hence they justify the license fee
21:03:50  <Darkvater> :O
21:04:20  <Tefad> AOL on the other hand, makes you pay out the ass for dialup (US) ANND bombards you with crappy advertisement non-stop.
21:04:28  <edeca_> Haha
21:04:43  <Tefad> isn't it great?
21:04:48  <edeca_> But they're AOL Time Warner now, so imagine all the films you're paying for
21:04:59  <JohnUK89> Tefad, not any more, lemme get a link :P
21:05:04  <Tefad> eh, AOL's partly owned by google now
21:05:06  <Darkvater> NED has really subtle advertising though. And if there's a movie, there's no advertising at all
21:05:14  <Tefad> AOL's walled garden crap is now free
21:05:18  <Darkvater> not like some other crap-channels wher eyou have one every 20 minutes
21:05:20  <Tefad> and you can have a standalone aol connection
21:05:22  <edeca_> Darkvater: Oh, that's cool then
21:05:25  <Sacro> ITV keeps interuppting the f1 with adverst
21:05:27  <edeca_> Darkvater: That makes sense
21:05:29  <Tefad> as of like.. two months ago
21:05:33  <Sacro> and c4 and 5 break up pron :(
21:05:37  <Darkvater> there's even a channel where they put in a fu*king reality show 15 minutes before the movie ends
21:05:47  <edeca_> No way!
21:05:52  <JohnUK89> Tefad: AOL's own dial-up is .95 a month now
21:05:55  <Darkvater> so you're watching the movie; it's almost done....wait 45 minutes...finish movie
21:05:59  <Tefad> JohnUK89: you're kidding?
21:06:04  <JohnUK89>
21:06:09  * Darkvater kills SBS6
21:06:12  <Tefad> i thought they bumped it to  to match their own DSL service
21:06:19  <edeca_> Some of the channels here show a movie, break for the news, finish the movie :\
21:06:30  <Tefad> i know AOL's had Netscape dialup for /mo for a while
21:06:40  <Tefad> to compete with netzero and the like
21:06:46  <Sacro> AOL are a steaming pile of donkey dirt
21:06:54  <JohnUK89> Sacro: yer telling me
21:06:56  <Darkvater> I must say though BBC is one of my most favourite channels
21:07:00  <Tefad> i live close to this pile of donkey dirt
21:07:00  <Darkvater> besides BBC News
21:07:07  <Darkvater> and Discovery
21:07:07  * JohnUK89 is a now EX-AOL customer :P
21:07:17  <Tefad> JohnUK89: how many phone calls did it take?
21:07:22  <Darkvater> but that's getting worse every year. Crappy documentaries lately :(
21:07:27  <edeca_> I really don't understand why anybody in the UK would use AOL :)
21:07:34  <JohnUK89> Tefad: one to the bank to cancel the payment :P
21:07:40  <Tefad> nice
21:07:49  <Tefad> that's how i 'canceled' my dialup service too
21:07:50  <edeca_> I really don't understand why *anybody* would use it, but I don't know what alternatives are like elsewhere ;)
21:07:57  <Tefad> except i didn't do it intentionally
21:07:58  <JohnUK89> We're moving soon, so there's no need for us to have it lol
21:07:59  <Sacro> we only have 1 isp here :(
21:08:03  <JohnUK89> We're getting Cable :-D
21:08:15  <Tefad> the expiry date changed, and they didn't have a form for me to update it, so i figured it didn't matter
21:08:15  <edeca_> Sacro: Where is "here"?  If you are in the UK, surely you have quite a good choice unless you are out in the sticks
21:08:28  <Sacro> edeca_: im just outside Hull
21:08:50  <Sacro> nowhere near the sticks
21:09:00  <edeca_> Sacro: Ah, up north, that explains a lot ;)
21:09:10  <JohnUK89> I'm in the sticks at the moment, and I have a choice of dialup ISPs lol
21:09:11  <Sacro> :o whats that supposed to mean
21:09:11  <Tefad> where i moved from had BPL (broadband over power lines), which is really wifi hopped along the power lines.
21:09:19  <JohnUK89> But I won't be in the sticks as of the 11th :P
21:09:30  <Sacro> JohnUK89: but still in t'yorkshire?
21:09:41  <JohnUK89> Sacro: yep, going to Leeds
21:09:47  <Sacro> t'Leeds :|
21:09:49  <Tefad> at about 300m there's a repeater.
21:10:10  <JohnUK89> Sacro: aye, in'tLeeds
21:10:28  <Tefad> range is about 10km north and 10km south of the substation..
21:10:29  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:10:31  <JohnUK89> Better that t'ull! :P
21:10:32  <Tefad> so quite a few repeaters
21:10:35  <Sacro> JohnUK89: cool. i was looking at t'leeds unik
21:10:36  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro]
21:10:49  <JohnUK89> Sacro: nice lol
21:11:21  <Sacro> think im gonna do computer science and games development at hull though
21:11:24  <JohnUK89> One thing I'll lose is the racket of Leeds Festival every year...
21:11:49  <JohnUK89> I don't like rock music, so heh :P
21:12:09  <Sacro> rocks is good
21:12:10  *** Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
21:12:17  <JohnUK89> Sacro: nice, shame it's in t'ull :P
21:13:00  <JohnUK89> One thing I'll need to watch for is chavs...
21:13:15  <JohnUK89> I need to pack me shotgun when I move :-D
21:14:40  <Sacro> heh, chavs are a pain
21:15:28  <JohnUK89> Yeah :-\
21:17:44  *** Osai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:17:49  <Sacro> though some of the females can be quite attractive
21:17:52  *** e1ko [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.4/2006072904]]
21:17:53  <Sacro> ><
21:17:57  <JohnUK89> Hell no
21:18:10  * Sacro drools
21:18:22  <JohnUK89> lmao
21:18:27  *** MaulingMonkey_ [] has joined #openttd
21:18:40  <JohnUK89> I'm saving for a new beast
21:19:28  <Sacro> im hoping to get a £1200 student loan :D
21:19:33  <JohnUK89> (As well as a holiday to Cyprus) :P
21:19:47  * Sacro purchase a new pc, MOT, road tax, and insurance
21:20:01  <JohnUK89> lmao
21:20:08  <Sacro> and a large sword and sheild, lets invade york :D
21:20:23  <JohnUK89> I'm hoping to get a part time job, and I get £30 a week for doing nowt at sixth form :P
21:20:27  <Tefad> road tax?
21:20:38  <Sacro> Tefad: yes...
21:20:45  <JohnUK89> Tefad: yeah we have to pay tax on cars
21:20:50  <Sacro> pays for erm...tarmac and stuff
21:20:53  <Tefad> we have car taxes here
21:21:01  <Sacro> yeah, same thing
21:21:05  <Tefad> hehe
21:21:16  <Tefad> though the way you say it sounds as if you use the road you pay a tax
21:21:26  <Tefad> (bus foot bicycle)
21:21:28  <JohnUK89> But we have petrol taxes here too :P
21:21:35  <Tefad> here too
21:21:44  <Tefad> though our fuel seems to be quite a bit cheaper
21:21:44  <JohnUK89> BIG petrol taxes
21:22:14  <JohnUK89> Our government take about 45p a litre tax
21:22:18  <Sacro> something like 60% afaik
21:22:28  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
21:22:32  <Tefad> that's near half a pound?
21:22:39  <Tefad> i have no idea how pound denominations work
21:22:39  <JohnUK89> Yeah
21:22:46  <Tefad> ok. i assumed correctly : D
21:22:57  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
21:22:58  <JohnUK89> 100p in a pound
21:23:01  <Tefad> well it's what.. 3.8L for a US gallon?
21:23:11  <JohnUK89> Tefad: bout that yeah
21:23:17  <MeusH> that's crazy
21:23:19  *** MaulingMonkey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23:28  <Tefad> and we pay what.. about /gallon
21:23:29  <Tefad> ; )
21:23:30  *** MaulingMonkey_ is now known as MaulingMonkey
21:23:35  <MeusH> we pay more than one euro for one litre of 95 octane fuel
21:23:39  <Tefad> not as cheap
21:23:44  <JohnUK89> Yeah, we pay about .30 ;-)
21:23:53  <JohnUK89> (for one of OUR gallons)
21:23:53  <Tefad> but still cheaper than what you pay
21:24:01  <JohnUK89> .80-ish for one of yours :P
21:24:16  <Sacro> :O £19 for a new driving licence
21:24:17  <Tefad> 128oz for our gallon, how many for yours?
21:24:22  <Tefad> or are our oz even different
21:24:27  <JohnUK89> Sacro: erm...only £19??
21:24:34  <glx> I paid 1.33 EUR/l this week
21:24:37  <Sacro> JohnUK89: yeah, i kinda lost mine
21:24:40  <RichK67> yup - all US volumes are different
21:24:42  <JohnUK89> Tefad: dunno what it is in fluid ox
21:24:47  <JohnUK89> Sacro: aah, replacement
21:24:54  <JohnUK89> oz*
21:24:56  <Tefad> ugh non metric sucks ass
21:25:02  <RichK67> fluid ounces
21:25:08  <Sacro> JohnUK89: yes...but then they'll track me down for the minimum 80 i owe in SORN fines D:
21:25:12  <JohnUK89> gallons are hardly metric
21:25:17  <Tefad> i didn't say they were
21:25:23  <Tefad> but i can relate better to them
21:25:28  <Tefad> america is weird
21:25:30  <JohnUK89> Sacro: damn :(
21:25:30  <RichK67> 4.54 litres per imperial gallon
21:25:37  <Tefad> we have 2L drinks
21:25:39  <Sacro> yeah, i really screwed up
21:25:40  <JohnUK89> Tefad: you can say that again lol
21:25:52  <Tefad> and sometimes 1L or 0.5L
21:25:55  <MeusH> glx: where do you live?
21:25:59  <MeusH> what fuel was that?
21:26:01  <MeusH> 95? 98?
21:26:04  <Sacro> hmm, im guessing buy repeatedly saying "immediatly" they dvla dont mean a year later
21:26:09  <glx> MeusH: 98 in france
21:26:12  <JohnUK89> Tefad, we have pints for beer, and litres etc for anything else
21:26:13  <Tefad> is the octane rating the same?
21:26:19  <Tefad> heh
21:26:20  <Sacro> glx: we just got 99 here :d
21:26:25  <Tefad> five pints to a gallon?
21:26:29  *** Darkvater [] has left #openttd []
21:26:34  <RichK67> 95RON is the normal here
21:26:43  <RichK67> 8 pints to the imperial gallon
21:26:46  <Sacro> RichK67: just got 99 round here
21:26:47  <Tefad> ah.
21:26:52  <Tefad> where'd i get 5 from
21:26:53  <glx> Sacro: I'd prefer use 95, but it's an old car designed for 97
21:27:00  <JohnUK89> Don't the US have something stupid like 80? lol
21:27:07  <Sacro> JohnUK89: 101 afaik
21:27:12  <Tefad> my car uses 87 octane
21:27:17  <JohnUK89> It's gone up?!
21:27:22  <Tefad> but i don't know if that's the same scale
21:27:36  <Tefad> the label says something like (R + M)/something
21:27:37  *** Brianetta [~brian@] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
21:27:48  <MeusH> glx: we would prefer 98 but it costs way too much
21:27:52  <MeusH> 95 is cheaper
21:27:54  * Sacro thinks about declairing his bike SORN online, laying low for a few weeks and then changing the address...
21:27:57  <MeusH> by around 5 eurocents
21:27:59  <Tefad> most cars here don't benefit from it
21:27:59  <MeusH> that' much
21:28:08  <Sacro> [22:29:11] ... you are from england?
21:28:08  <Sacro> [22:29:38] Ben Woodward: yep
21:28:08  <Sacro> [22:29:49] katuhaukka-: so you like football?
21:28:08  <Sacro> [22:29:53] ... and beer?
21:28:08  <Sacro> [22:30:10] ... and iron maiden?
21:28:11  <Sacro> ROFL!!!
21:28:12  <JohnUK89> lmao Sacro
21:28:16  <glx> MeusH: yeah that's why I'd like to be able to use 95
21:28:26  <MeusH> glx: no 95 in France?
21:28:42  <glx> there is but my car won't like it
21:28:48  <MeusH> ohh I see
21:28:48  <JohnUK89> What octane is UK fuel?
21:28:49  <Tefad> 87PON
21:28:53  <MeusH> anyway it's all about fucking politicians
21:28:58  <MeusH> soviet bitches
21:29:11  <Sacro> and we have our own oil too :(
21:29:18  <Tefad> which is 91-95 for you europeans
21:29:24  <MeusH> fucking communists
21:29:27  <MeusH> taking our cash
21:29:30  <RichK67> uk oil is not good petrol oil
21:29:35  <MeusH> oil is so cheap
21:29:41  <MeusH> all cash goes to communists
21:29:42  <MeusH> I hate it
21:29:46  <Tefad> lol
21:29:52  <Tefad> USA is far from communism eh?
21:29:53  <JohnUK89> You keep forgetting the arabs
21:30:04  <JohnUK89> They control over half the world's oil...
21:30:21  <Tefad> yet the USA only imports 50% of its oil? (i think)
21:30:37  <JohnUK89> Tefad: that's just the US
21:30:40  <JohnUK89> They have texas
21:30:51  <JohnUK89> Coutries like China...they don't have their own oil
21:31:18  <JohnUK89> So the arabs make a killing on it, as do the russians
21:31:34  <MeusH> do you know how fucking cheap oil is in Venesuela?
21:31:45  <MeusH> it's less than 50 eurocents per litre
21:31:49  <TrueLight> night all!
21:31:58  <Sacro> wtf is a eurocent in £?
21:31:58  <JohnUK89> Do the venesuelans have oil fields?
21:32:00  <MeusH> it would be cheaper for poland to buy 50 fucking tankers and go to Venesuela
21:32:05  <Sacro> JohnUK89: wells :)
21:32:09  <Tefad> Sacro: same exchange rate
21:32:11  <MeusH> and take that fucking venesuelian fuel
21:32:13  <JohnUK89> Sacro: same thing :)
21:32:13  <Tefad> for p
21:32:22  <grimrc1> Sacro: it's a centi-euro
21:32:31  <Sacro> errr... that helps
21:32:32  <Tefad> p is centi-pound
21:32:35  <MeusH> and it would be anyway cheaper to haul it across half of the world than to import fuel from fucking ruskies
21:32:37  <Sacro> WHATS THE EXCHANGE RATE!!!
21:32:41  <JohnUK89> 1 eurocent is about 0.6p-ish
21:32:45  <Sacro> JohnUK89: thanks
21:32:47  <Tefad> there yo go.
21:33:00  <JohnUK89> unless the rates changed
21:33:00  <grimrc1> 1 pound is not far off 2 euros I think
21:33:01  <JohnUK89> lol
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21:33:09  <Tefad> so close to 25p/L
21:33:14  <MeusH> 1 pound is like 1.5 euro IMO
21:33:18  <JohnUK89> fuck me that's cheap
21:33:22  <grimrc1> oh
21:33:33  <Sacro> wow, 25p/L
21:33:34  <MeusH> I'm telling you venesuelian oil is so cheap
21:33:40  <Sacro> can fill my bike up on 75p!!!
21:33:44  <MeusH> it would be fucking good if I could have a tanker
21:33:50  <MeusH> I'd be the richest pole in the poland
21:33:59  <MeusH> if I had a tanker of venesuelian oil
21:33:59  <Tefad> hah
21:34:10  * Sacro hangs a flag off MeusH
21:34:17  <Tefad> good luck getting it through customs
21:34:24  <Bjarni> ShowSameSharedOrdersPlayerTrains <-- can anybody think of a better name? It's the function that's called when opening the window with all the vehicles, that shared the same shared orders
21:34:57  <grimrc1> imagine people must be smuggling oil; they do it for ciggarettes
21:35:32  <MeusH> grimrc1, if I smuggled oil from venesuela I'd have enough money to buy 10 tankers and haul ten times more oil from venesuela
21:35:45  <Bjarni> could you please put the smuggling on pause until I get an answer. It's the last thing that's left in my patch
21:35:45  <MeusH> Bjarni: why "trains"?
21:35:56  <MeusH> do you have seprate functions for each vehicle type?
21:36:06  <Bjarni> because I got 4 function names. Guess what the 3 others are called ;)
21:36:10  <grimrc1> MeusH: you might not be able to use a large tanker though, unless you're clever about getting it in
21:36:11  <Tefad> uh oh
21:36:21  <MeusH> I'd hire a crew
21:36:24  <Tefad> it's full of.. nonpotable water . . .?
21:36:33  <grimrc1> MeusH: so if they get busted you're ok?
21:36:47  <Sacro> Tefad: nice...
21:36:50  <MeusH> with a venesuelian oil I'd have enough money to bribe all cops in the world and hire the best ship crew
21:36:52  <Bjarni> so many people and not a single idea....
21:36:57  <MeusH> you don't imagine how cheap it is
21:36:58  <Sacro> not so good if you have an accident, they'll wonder why all the fire
21:37:05  <grimrc1> hehe; you'd probably have to bribe navies too
21:37:19  <Bjarni> you guys will never be great coders if you lack imagination that bad :p
21:37:32  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:33  <MeusH> ShowSameSharedOrdersForTrains maybye?
21:37:35  <Tefad> Bjarni: FriendlySharedOrders?
21:37:37  <MeusH> Bjarni, that's name is good
21:37:46  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: ShowSharedTrainOrders?
21:37:53  <grimrc1> ShowLinkedPlayerTrainOrders
21:38:03  <grimrc1> what's the Player part for?
21:38:12  <Tefad> n/m
21:38:21  <MeusH> ShowSharedOrderGroupsForTrains... duh thats longer
21:38:23  <Bjarni> haha, all I had to do was to insult you and then you all start to be creative. I got to remember that :D
21:38:40  <MeusH> SSOPTrains SSOPRVs SSOPShips SSOPPlanes
21:39:04  <MeusH> and make a /** description */
21:39:08  <grimrc1> YouShowMeYoursFirstAndThen ...
21:39:18  <Tefad>  /**javadoc style*/ ?
21:39:21  <Bjarni> <JohnUK89>	Bjarni: ShowSharedTrainOrders? <-- good, except it also sounds like "show the orders themselves"
21:39:25  <Sacro> grimrc1: hehe
21:39:30  <MeusH>  /** doxygen */
21:39:33  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: good point
21:40:25  <MeusH> ShowSameSharedsOfTrains?
21:40:37  <Tefad> ShowSharedOrdersTrain
21:40:39  <Tefad> Same?
21:40:49  <Bjarni> we can skip the Same thing
21:41:51  <Bjarni> damn, this is hard... we have yet to find one, that's not lame and do not sound like it's the orders themselves, that's on display
21:42:15  <grimrc1> ShowOrderLinkedTrains
21:42:42  <Tefad> ShowPlayerSharedOrdersTrains
21:42:58  <grimrc1> ShowTrainWithSharedOrders
21:43:03  <Tefad> eh
21:43:10  <Tefad> push the type to the end
21:43:36  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	ShowTrainWithSharedOrders <-- ok, except it should be ShowVehWithSharedOrdersTrains
21:43:49  <Bjarni> I think I will go for that one
21:44:07  <Tefad> does C allow for that long of a name with differentiability?
21:44:11  <Tefad> what is it.. 16 chars?
21:44:17  <Bjarni> specially since I plan to unify the functions sometime before next release, so the Train part dies
21:44:28  <Sacro> WhoGivesADamnWhatThisFunctionDoes() ?
21:44:38  * Bjarni slaps Sacro
21:44:41  <Tefad> Sacro: only microsoft is allowed to do that
21:44:46  <RichK67> ListTrainsWithSharedOrders ... dang... i was thinking of it when grimrc1 typed his :)
21:44:47  <Bjarni> nobody asked about your opinion
21:45:00  <Bjarni> RichK67: hehe
21:45:00  * Sacro slaps Bjarni
21:45:13  <grimrc1> is list more appropriate than show?
21:45:15  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [you are turning this channel violent. We can't have that]
21:45:22  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-239-62.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:45:23  <Sacro> :(
21:45:39  <JohnUK89> lmao
21:45:53  <Bjarni> hmm
21:46:06  <Bjarni> list/show.... it shows a list... good queston
21:46:11  <Bjarni> ShowList :p
21:46:29  * JohnUK89 bashes Bjarni's and Sacro's heads together
21:46:37  <Bjarni> I think it should be Show
21:47:02  <Sacro> :o just broke firefox
21:47:10  *** JohnUK89 was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [not my head! It's too brilliant to be damaged like that]
21:47:20  <RichK67> your function - im sure someone will "fix" it later and mess up all connected patches ;)
21:47:24  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
21:47:33  <Sacro> Bjarni: you mean its actualyl empty, and you dont want to shatter it
21:47:40  <JohnUK89> Sacro's head can't hurt you Bjarni, it's hollow
21:47:48  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: good point
21:48:04  <Bjarni> or
21:48:10  <Bjarni> let's try that theory
21:48:22  * Bjarni picks up a hollow metal pipe
21:48:30  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: sit still while I test this
21:48:40  <JohnUK89> Oh hell...
21:50:03  * JohnUK89 sits still
21:51:10  * Sacro hits JohnUK89 with a pole (MeusH)
21:51:33  * MeusH hits Sacro with himself (pole)
21:51:34  * JohnUK89 stays where he is, after realising it was polystyrene
21:51:38  <Sacro> :o
21:52:26  * Sacro adds petrol to the polystyrene, and lights it over JohnUK89
21:52:32  * JohnUK89 runs
21:52:40  <Tefad> ack
21:52:44  <Tefad> napalm
21:53:12  * JohnUK89 does imitation of kid in Vietnam
21:53:29  <Tefad> : x
21:53:41  <Sacro> any kid in particular?
21:53:53  <JohnUK89> Nah, just one running from napalm
21:54:03  * RichK67 photographs JohnUK89, makes millions, and retires
21:54:06  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6159 /trunk/ (pathfind.c pathfind.h train_cmd.c): -Fix: FindClosestTrainDepot hardly ever found a depot with NPF off due to absence of distance-normalization (Rojer)
21:54:26  <Tefad> yay
21:54:31  <glx> Sacro: no need to use petrol, polystyrene is highly flamable
21:54:32  <RichK67> its a really really famous picture
21:54:41  <Sacro> glx: but...napalm
21:54:53  <Sacro> RichK67: of JohnUK89 ?
21:55:17  <JohnUK89> Noone on IRC has a picture of me :P
21:55:22  <JohnUK89> (I don't trust em)
21:58:43  <Sacro> FSX looks amazing
21:59:02  <JohnUK89> Sacro: does doesn't it
21:59:14  <Sacro> i can see it helping me fail Uni
21:59:19  <JohnUK89> Not that I'll play iy ;-)
21:59:24  <JohnUK89> it*
21:59:38  * Sacro will be the TOFH :D
21:59:53  <JohnUK89> LOL!
22:00:30  <Sacro> hehe, "no your never too low"...CRUNCH
22:00:40  <JohnUK89> :P
22:03:57  <Sacro> hmm, i miss OTTD :(
22:04:13  <lws1984> then go play!
22:04:39  <smeding> i recently started playing again \o/
22:04:47  <RichK67> play?? damn is it a game??? i thought it was a coding project ;)
22:04:57  <smeding> mostly because my friend finally found and returned my CD, which turned out to still work
22:05:10  <smeding> though i backed it up on my HD just to be sure :>
22:05:23  <smeding> also, hi.
22:05:34  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
22:05:36  <Sacro> RichK67: hehe
22:05:51  <Sacro> well maybe when i start my degree, ill actually send in some decent patches
22:05:59  <Sacro> or do an X-Box and GC port...
22:06:17  * smeding rubs his moustache
22:06:23  <smeding> leet how i can do that now ;p
22:06:45  <Sacro> smeding: please tell me your not a 14 year old without a razor :P
22:06:54  <smeding> no, i'm a 14 year old WITH a razor in fact
22:07:07  <smeding> though my sister keeps stealing it to shave her legs. :x
22:07:15  <Sacro> sister? how old?
22:07:18  <smeding> 17
22:07:25  <smeding> you'd think she could buy her own damn stuff.
22:07:36  <Sacro> heh, why should she if you can provide it for free
22:08:02  <grimrc1> I wouldn't stand for my sister shaving her legs with my razor
22:08:03  <smeding> so i don't end up with a dirty razor i can't find because she doesn't clean it and leaves it at random places.
22:08:32  <grimrc1> smeding: leave the razor dirty after you use it, then she can't heh
22:08:51  <smeding> she'd wash it probably. i do when she uses it.
22:08:56  <MeusH> buy yourself a new razor hide it, and buy a cheap one-use razor and leave it in the visible place :D
22:09:02  <grimrc1> hehehe
22:09:25  <smeding> but i'm lazy!
22:09:25  <RichK67> just tell her how many puss spots you beheaded with it last shave... she'll stop then ;)
22:09:38  <smeding> i'm a coder after all. coders are always lazy.
22:09:43  <smeding> and smelly if they're good.
22:09:46  <MeusH> what's a puss spot?
22:09:47  <MeusH> an acne?
22:09:51  <RichK67> yeah
22:10:20  <MeusH> haha :D
22:11:21  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:24  <MeusH> cya
22:12:35  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: goodnight]
22:13:10  <Sacro> some denmark girl just called me
22:13:28  *** mikk36[EST] [] has joined #openttd
22:13:54  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
22:14:45  *** mikk36 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:15:11  <grimrc1> yay my first patch is up; pretty clean I think:
22:17:57  <Sacro> grimrc1: badger RichK67 :P
22:18:20  <Naksu> any brits here?
22:18:28  <Naksu> <- what's the point?
22:18:31  <JohnUK89> Me?
22:18:34  <JohnUK89> Lol
22:18:56  <Sacro> pmsl, i remember that one
22:19:05  <Sacro> aww, wheres Brianetta when you need him
22:19:08  <Naksu> pmsl?
22:19:22  <smeding> Brianetta, now that's someone i remember!
22:19:38  <Sacro> "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."
22:19:56  <JohnUK89> LOL!
22:20:18  <lws1984> ROFL
22:20:29  <Sacro>
22:21:41  <Sacro> i think i saw that one near stadium of light...
22:22:01  <Naksu> the thing is, i would think newcastle is wealthy enough to afford to give it's citizen the freedom to electrocute themselves to death for free
22:22:12  <Naksu> unless they ran out of coal or something
22:22:46  <Sacro> wtf, why do all my pastes go at the start of the line
22:23:00  *** Spoco [] has quit []
22:23:35  <grimrc1> that :o messed up the link:
22:23:54  <JohnUK89> <corrected :P
22:24:37  <CIA-2> KUDr * r6160 /trunk/yapf/ (follow_track.hpp yapf_road.cpp):
22:24:37  <CIA-2> -Fix [ 1519167 ] Bus trying to service in depot of other company (mart3p)
22:24:37  <CIA-2>  thanks Darkvater for hotfix (r5897)
22:25:29  <grimrc1> oh shit
22:27:14  <Tefad> you have a weird sister man
22:27:15  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
22:27:28  <Tefad> i just wouldn't leave my razor in the bathroom.
22:28:17  <RichK67> whats a razor??? ;)    ive not shaved since 1989
22:28:43  <Sacro> RichK67: beardy?
22:28:52  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6161 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
22:28:52  <CIA-2> -Feature: List of vehicles with the same shared orders
22:28:52  <CIA-2>  the list is available in the orders window and looks like the list buttons from the station windows (small vehicle)
22:28:52  <CIA-2>  The button is disabled if the vehicle do not have any shared orders or it got shared orders, but an empty order list
22:28:54  <CIA-2>  based on a patch by nycom, thought it ended up getting heavily modified
22:28:54  <CIA-2>  Thanks to TrueLight for proofreading and suggestions
22:29:07  <Bjarni> I hope this works out ok
22:29:32  <Tefad> i've not shaved in.. three months or so
22:29:45  <RichK67> yup - last shaved clean for my graduation... 17 years ago :)
22:29:51  <Tefad> heh
22:30:06  <Sacro> RichK67: impressive
22:30:07  <grimrc1> I've not shaved in a week or so; my bloody beard trimmer's broken
22:30:17  <Sacro> and quite worrying
22:30:26  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
22:30:50  <RichK67> nah - i get a "no.2" beard trim with each haircut :)
22:31:14  <Tefad> heh
22:31:20  <Tefad> 1/4" trim
22:31:22  <grimrc1> heh
22:31:31  <grimrc1> is #2 a 1/4" trim?
22:31:35  <Tefad> i think so
22:31:42  <Tefad> i think it's just no/8 inches
22:32:01  <Tefad> or no * 1/8"
22:32:25  <grimrc1> ... or no * 100 / 8000 ?
22:33:20  <RichK67> id say about 1/4" from experience ;)
22:33:53  <grimrc1> does your barber charge extra?
22:33:56  <Sacro> oooh, i might be able to get a UoH bursary
22:34:35  <Tefad> heh my barber used to charge  for a haircut, then he retired
22:34:41  <Tefad> poor guy
22:35:37  <grimrc1> Tefad: to his million dollar home I'm sure
22:35:48  <Tefad> nah, he operated out of his home
22:35:53  <grimrc1> Jez
22:36:07  <Tefad> he converted his den into a barber shop
22:36:11  <smeding> woops, was having breakfast
22:36:26  <Tefad> loved talking to clients
22:36:39  <grimrc1> my God; maybe you should have charged him
22:36:47  <Tefad> lol
22:36:57  <Tefad> old the old people liked to go there
22:37:04  <Sacro> ah bums, foundation years are not eligable for a bursary :(
22:37:14  <Sacro> hmm, and my spell checker has gone
22:37:15  <Tefad> Sacro: wtf?
22:37:24  <grimrc1> not much hair left - quick - I'm guessing he didn't have an OAP rate
22:37:25  <Sacro> Tefad: uni stuff
22:37:39  <Tefad> OAP?
22:37:45  <Sacro> old age pensioner
22:37:46  <grimrc1> old-age pensioners
22:37:51  <Tefad> never heard of that
22:37:58  <Tefad> we just say geezer ; )
22:38:05  <grimrc1> are you sure you need a foundation year Sacro?
22:38:41  <Sacro> grimrc1: yes
22:38:48  <Sacro> i have no a-levels
22:39:26  <JohnUK89> I'll bbs
22:39:35  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.11.1 :]
22:39:39  <grimrc1> oh; no way to go through college for free?
22:39:45  <Sacro> Uni :P
22:39:55  <grimrc1> I mean for a-level standard
22:40:15  <grimrc1> pretty harsh that they charge you
22:40:32  <Tefad> university college, whatever
22:40:35  * Sacro searches for jobs on the balearic islands
22:40:45  <grimrc1> our college = sixth form - a-levels
22:40:46  <Tefad> i need to get one of those STFU shirts
22:41:00  <Tefad> no idea
22:41:10  <smeding> school starts Tuesday for me again D:
22:41:11  <grimrc1> 16 - 18
22:41:17  <smeding> apart from that i really can't talk with you about this.
22:41:27  <smeding> i mean, i know nothing about uni/college
22:41:29  <Sacro> all hush hush?
22:41:31  <Sacro> ;)
22:41:34  <grimrc1> heh
22:41:36  <Tefad> there's 12 numbered levels of lower education, then four to six of optional higher ed.
22:42:14  <grimrc1> we don't get high school 'diplomas' in this country
22:42:18  <Tefad> one required level before the first numbered one.. weirdos
22:42:32  <Tefad> and some areas are even offering an additional lower level before that one.
22:42:41  <Tefad> get them while they're young. heh.
22:42:49  <smeding> we have those two required afaik :p
22:42:49  <grimrc1> that's my excuse for not having one anyway
22:42:50  <Tefad> 4 year old starting public school, yeesh
22:43:03  <smeding> and we call those two years year 1 and 2
22:43:13  <smeding> before that there's kindergarten optionally
22:43:17  <Tefad> at 3!?!
22:43:25  <smeding> something like that
22:43:28  <smeding> i really don't know
22:43:43  <grimrc1> we can tell
22:43:46  <grimrc1> heh
22:43:49  <smeding> anyway, after that it goes on to year 8, then you take the Cito test which determines what level of education you take
22:43:51  <Sacro> :o some hull uni guys are on regdeveloper
22:43:52  <smeding> how come grimrc1
22:43:55  <Tefad> i have close to the equivalent of three full semesters of higher ed
22:44:01  <grimrc1> Tefad: at 3!?!
22:44:11  <Tefad> 3 years of age.
22:44:16  <grimrc1> yeah I know
22:44:21  <Tefad> but i've had my 'diploma' for a while
22:44:37  <Tefad> i didn't start school until i was 5
22:44:43  <Tefad> my friend started at 6
22:44:48  <grimrc1> 3 semesters = 1 + 1/2 years
22:44:51  <smeding> i have no idea when i started
22:44:55  <smeding> 3 or 4 probably
22:45:02  <smeding> or 5
22:45:30  <Tefad> i think i have somewhere close to 60 or 70 credit hours
22:45:37  <Tefad> some of it won't apply to any degrees
22:46:02  <grimrc1> I only attended 42% of the last year of high school
22:46:15  <grimrc1> before that 98%
22:46:21  <Tefad> if i take two more social science classes, my 2nd english, and two years of lab science, i'll have enough for two degrees
22:46:23  * Sacro considers a year in the USA
22:46:41  <smeding> i don't know how all of that works but i got 197/200 questions right for my Cito test :>
22:46:49  <grimrc1> 'just' 2 years of lab science
22:47:01  <Tefad> eh, i could get it over with in a single year, double up
22:47:03  <grimrc1> what's cito?
22:47:16  <Bjarni> Sacro: as far away as possible... try to sign up at Nasa to go to Mars or Pluto or whatever
22:47:20  <Tefad> i don't have the money to do college this semester
22:47:21  <smeding> grimrc1: test you take at 12, determines what level of school you attend after that
22:47:21  <Sacro> smeding: the problem being, you got your firstname, surname and date wrong :P
22:47:28  <Sacro> Bjarni: :o
22:47:30  <smeding> no in fact
22:47:34  <grimrc1> smeding: so you're in a great on now?
22:47:36  <Tefad> which throws me off in science, by a year (they don't offer part one in the spring)
22:47:38  * Sacro plans a year in denmark
22:47:57  <smeding> grimrc1: not the best one there is because it only includes greek and some lame guy i know who practically stalks me goes there
22:48:01  <Tefad> smeding: i would have loved that
22:48:15  <smeding> hmm?
22:48:17  <grimrc1> 'only' includes Greek!
22:48:27  <grimrc1> smeding: being stalked
22:48:27  <Tefad> i took the stupid placement tests for this community college when i was in my 11th year of public school
22:48:42  <Tefad> and i placed in highest classes i could place into.
22:48:52  <Tefad> community college is a bit weird
22:48:54  <smeding> Tefad: heh. i'm going to year 9 now i think by your standards
22:48:58  <smeding> but it's still boring
22:49:13  <smeding> we're getting chemistry and physics as seperate subjects now though \o/
22:49:34  <Tefad> the two sciences i spoke of were chemistry and physics
22:49:44  <grimrc1> I didn't enter any 11 year old school placement tests; they're not common in the UK
22:49:45  <smeding> heh
22:50:06  <Tefad> i took first semester physics last year and didn't do any labs
22:50:08  <RichK67> i did, but that was ... errr.... a while ago ;)
22:50:13  <Tefad> and about half my homework
22:50:21  <Tefad> got a 96% on the midterm
22:50:27  <grimrc1> that reminds me of when chemistry, physics and biology were split up in high school - that was great
22:50:45  <Tefad> and like.. 55% overall.. barely passing. i'm going to retake it eventually
22:51:05  <grimrc1> Tefad: what's stopping you attending?
22:51:16  <Tefad> as stated before, money
22:51:21  <Tefad> i make too much to get a grant
22:51:27  <Tefad> and i'm not taking any loans out.
22:51:28  <grimrc1> I meant the labs
22:51:47  <Tefad> i attended the labs, i just didn't complete them
22:51:52  <grimrc1> oh heh
22:52:17  <Tefad> my focus away from school isn't the greatest
22:52:22  <grimrc1> my attendance was poor, but I've recently found out I'm hypothyroid so that explains a lot
22:52:23  <Tefad> i understood the material
22:52:56  <Tefad> i'm not so good with rotational stuff
22:53:05  <Tefad> dunno why. hard for me to grab as of yet
22:53:14  <Tefad> torques and so on
22:53:19  <grimrc1> oh yeah
22:53:37  *** RichK67 [~RichK67@] has quit [Quit: RichK67]
22:53:45  <Tefad> until then i was kicking ass on tests
22:53:57  <smeding> Tefad: oh come on. i don't get a lot of things :P
22:54:03  <smeding> simpler things too
22:54:05  <Tefad> and i'd never had physics before : )
22:54:21  <smeding> like solving/simplifying equations
22:54:23  <Tefad> (didn't get a chance in highschool, i had to retake a government class.. bleh)
22:54:31  <Tefad> i'm good at that
22:54:32  *** MaulingMonkey_iBook [] has joined #openttd
22:54:37  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> yeah, int main you freak
22:54:46  <Tefad> wtf?
22:54:50  <Sacro>
22:54:54  <Tefad> return -1;
22:54:56  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> Whoops, wrong channel
22:55:03  <smeding> oh and for some reason i can never grope if "1 to 10" includes 1 and 10
22:55:04  <Tefad> i'd say
22:55:12  <Sacro> check out Georgios Komporozos!!!
22:55:38  <Tefad> eh, there's (1, 10) (1, 10] [1, 10) and [1, 10]
22:55:55  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
22:56:08  <smeding> Tefad: dunno which those excuse either :p
22:56:16  *** Dred_furst` is now known as Dred_furst^away
22:56:16  <smeding> include/exclude even
22:56:24  <Tefad> ( means don't include
22:56:44  <smeding> ah/
22:56:44  <smeding> .
22:56:56  <Tefad> so (1, 10] is 0.99999+, 10
22:57:01  <smeding> all i know is that Python uses [] to define a list :P
22:57:05  <smeding> well and i know this now.
22:57:07  <Sacro> smeding: 1 to 10, err...
22:57:16  <Tefad> though 0.99999 repeating is actually 1.
22:57:24  <Tefad> and i hosed that
22:57:26  <smeding> i know.
22:57:32  <smeding> i read the proof for that somewhere
22:57:33  <Tefad> i meant 1.0000...1
22:57:34  <Tefad> : D
22:57:34  <smeding> and it seems only logical
22:57:53  <smeding> oh and another thing, matrix math seems annoying
22:57:55  <Tefad> brainfart.
22:58:02  <smeding> though i learned some stuff from the wikipedia article
22:58:09  <smeding> and i'm not meant to learn it anyway.
22:58:11  <Tefad> we covered basic matrix math in my alg2 class
22:58:15  <Tefad> it was quite stupid
22:58:25  <Tefad> adding subtracting dot product cross product
22:58:31  <Tefad> nothing really useful on its own
22:58:43  <Tefad> but when you get into physics or higher math, it gets interesting
22:58:47  <Tefad> linear algebra : D
22:58:57  <grimrc1> yeah the 0.999 recuring thing is counterintuitive at first coz you expect number representations to be unique, but then it turns out that particular recursion can break that
22:59:10  <JohnUK89> I couldn't be bothered with Physics last I flunked it lol
22:59:18  <smeding> grimrc1: it never seemed counterintuitive to me. i guess i think logically or whatnot
22:59:21  <smeding> or i'm just insane.
22:59:25  <Sacro> i wish i'd done/passed a-levels
22:59:37  <Tefad> i also kick ass at computer science and engineering classes
22:59:46  <smeding> it's natural for geeks Tefad
22:59:47  <Tefad> though three phase power was annoying
22:59:59  <Tefad> complex numbers and all.
23:00:04  <smeding> hmm.
23:00:28  <grimrc1> power supply design looks quite interesting, but complicated
23:00:38  <JohnUK89> Sacro: I wish I'd have put more effort in last year lol
23:01:05  <Tefad> i'd like to learn more about power supply design
23:01:20  <grimrc1> best circuit I saw was one with a capacitor that you could prove changed an input single in to its derivative quite accurately
23:01:25  <Tefad> switching sounds interesting ; )
23:01:36  <Sacro> it scares me there are a lot of people with Dr. or Prof. working at the uni
23:01:49  <Tefad> meh, my english guy was a dr
23:01:56  <Tefad> but he didn't like people to call him dr much
23:02:10  <grimrc1> Tefad: that's because he's not called Dr Much
23:02:16  <Sacro> :D XNA and C# at Hull Uni :D
23:02:17  <Tefad> hell at my school, a few don't mind being called by their first name
23:02:41  <Tefad> at a community college, it isn't odd for a student to be as old or older as the person teaching
23:02:51  <Sacro> :o and they got to meet Mr Gates
23:02:55  <grimrc1> yeah calling adults by their first name made me uncomfortable when I was young
23:03:01  * Sacro packs an RPG just in case...
23:03:06  <smeding> hmm
23:03:16  <smeding> did they ask him to jump over chairs :<
23:03:17  <Sacro> and a copy of the w3c specifications
23:03:18  <smeding> i want to see that.
23:03:23  <Tefad> Sacro: is this a good thing?
23:03:31  <smeding> Sacro: make it a hardcover edition to smack him with
23:03:35  <Sacro> Tefad: was...
23:03:44  <Sacro> now if it'd been Linus Torvields
23:03:46  <Tefad> (the whole your-school-sucks-billg's-penis thing)
23:03:54  <JohnUK89> Torvalds*
23:03:57  <JohnUK89> :P
23:04:16  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: -]
23:04:29  <Sacro> well UoH has a tie in with Microsoft, so they get X-Box devkits etc
23:04:35  <Sacro> and have the XP source...
23:04:43  <Tefad> yuck
23:04:44  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:57  <smeding> ooh
23:05:04  <smeding> leak it :>
23:05:08  <Tefad> lol
23:05:21  <smeding> specifically, the NTFS drivers of course
23:05:23  <Sacro> smeding: hehehehehehehe
23:05:29  <smeding> for the Linux NTFS projects out there :>
23:05:36  <Tefad> smeding: actually there's a near fully functional NTFS driver now
23:05:41  <smeding> so i've heard
23:05:45  <smeding> i don't use NTFS mind you
23:05:46  <Sacro> apparently my mate found a line saying "i dunno what this does, but if you remove it, it'll crash"
23:05:47  <Tefad> it has a few rare corner cases left
23:05:50  <Sacro> it was true :P
23:06:00  <Trenskow> hehe
23:06:02  <Tefad> line in where?
23:06:20  <Tefad> windows?
23:06:24  <Sacro> mmmmmmmmmm "We plan to have sofas, WIFI, a plasma screen and an XBOX 360"
23:06:29  <Sacro> Tefad: yeah, XP source
23:06:30  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: Don't give me logic, give me emotions!]
23:06:58  <JohnUK89> XBox 360? Ewwww lol ya want a Linux box =D
23:07:11  <Sacro> JohnUK89: late a Ubuntu cd... ;)
23:07:14  <Tefad> great to know our infrastructure is powered by that crap
23:07:19  <Tefad> (offices anyway)
23:07:20  <JohnUK89> Sacro: hehe
23:08:10  <Tefad> my friend joked about selling customers anal-lube along with windows licenses at the computer store where he works
23:08:10  <JohnUK89> Sacro: I've put RIP onto my USB stick...and I'm planning what to do with it...
23:08:15  <grimrc1> grep it for swear words and 'crash'
23:08:28  <Tefad> linux kernel is fun to grep for swears
23:08:40  <Tefad> also, you won't believe how many gotos are in there
23:08:42  <grimrc1> yeah
23:08:48  <smeding> omg, tool of satan
23:09:00  <Tefad> yeah, Linux "Satan Inside"
23:09:13  <smeding> more like BSD with the daemon and all
23:09:17  <Tefad> hehe
23:09:39  * Sacro thinks about swapping the NT kernel for linux...
23:09:45  <Sacro> oooh, ext3 in XP
23:09:56  <JohnUK89> Hmm...should I take RIP to my school's main server? :P
23:10:15  <grimrc1> I'd like to meet RMS if he wasn't so smelly
23:10:25  <JohnUK89> shouldn't be too hard to rip said HDD
23:10:27  <Sacro> whooooooooooo fragfest
23:10:52  <Sacro> heh, cant afford a hat for picking numbers
23:12:15  <Sacro> oh i so wanna go to uni now
23:12:25  <izhirahider> openttd with xgl + compiz looks bad (it's transparent)
23:12:32  <JohnUK89> I so wanna demolish School's server now >_<
23:12:52  <JohnUK89> (one to do on me last day methinks)
23:12:57  <Sacro> izhirahider: yes :P
23:13:39  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:13:49  <smeding> Google seems slow.
23:13:50  <smeding> or... down....?
23:13:50  <smeding> it better not be.
23:13:52  <smeding> nooo
23:13:54  <smeding> could not be found.
23:14:07  <grimrc1>
23:14:07  <izhirahider> Sacro, that's right
23:14:10  <JohnUK89> izhirahider: You could have a toggle compiz script, which kills compiz and restores your default window you can play OTTD without the annoyance :)
23:14:33  <JohnUK89> It's up
23:14:41  <izhirahider> JohnUK89, is that a seamless replacement?
23:14:51  *** smeding [] has quit [Quit: You know how Omar supports the right to arm bears? Well I don't. Once you start legalizing stuff like that, where will it end?! What's next; opposable thu]
23:14:52  *** smeding [] has joined #openttd
23:14:57  <smeding> gah
23:15:04  <JohnUK89> izhirahider: pretty much yeah, takes a few seconds but it works pretty well
23:15:12  <smeding> cat jumped on the power rig to which the modem and router are connected :>
23:15:25  <Sacro> google looks proper fugly when your used to firefox
23:15:51  <JohnUK89> Google looks fugly anyway :P
23:15:53  <izhirahider> JohnUK89, do you know what the commands are?
23:16:12  <Sacro> "And yes, the marker pen is a prize too - as used in a genuine Computer Science lecture......"
23:16:18  <JohnUK89> izhirahider: there's something on the Ubuntu Document Storage thing about it
23:16:20  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
23:16:38  <grimrc1> smeding: heh cats; mine keeps crashing my xserver be dancing all over my keyboard
23:16:39  <JohnUK89> the section is CompositeManager/InstallingCompiz
23:16:56  <smeding> grimrc1: heh. that's the price one has to pay for them being so cute :P
23:17:12  <JohnUK89> I don't have cats, I'm allergic to them
23:17:19  <grimrc1> have you trained your cat to do any tricks?
23:17:37  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: I'm mildly allergic - I don't let it stop me
23:17:40  <JohnUK89> Oooh JRE's nearly done downloading
23:17:43  <JohnUK89> :-D
23:17:44  <smeding> teaching to to listen to its name was hard enough grimrc1
23:17:48  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: I'm badly allergic
23:18:03  <JohnUK89> Anything over about an hour near them I nearly die
23:18:38  <JohnUK89> (anti histamines extends it to 1 hours-ish)
23:18:40  <JohnUK89> 2*
23:18:43  <JohnUK89> lol
23:18:44  * Sacro mails a cat to JohnUK89
23:18:52  <JohnUK89> grrrr
23:19:03  <JohnUK89> Do you want a petrol bomb?
23:19:17  <grimrc1> I've trained my cat to sit on command (usually only if I have food treat in my hand, or she really wants a stroke), jump on command and stand on her hind legs on command - she knows lots of words too; I just have to use them consistently and not too many different words
23:19:17  <Sacro> please, just mail it to yourself
23:19:36  <smeding> grimrc1: leet
23:20:17  <grimrc1> things like her name, 'food', 'tuna food', 'prawn food', 'garden' and the commands
23:20:28  <smeding> :>
23:20:35  *** ChrisM87_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:20:46  <smeding> well, our cat can come to you on command
23:20:46  <grimrc1> she probably understands 'open door' too
23:21:04  <smeding> our cat has a secret tactic for opening doors
23:21:17  <smeding> namely sitting in front of it and meowing until someone comes to do it for her
23:21:20  <grimrc1> oh she does seem to understand 'towel stroke', which is for when she's quite wet; she really enjoys that
23:21:31  <Sacro> :o
23:21:40  <Sacro> firebug has just found 2077 errors on 1 page
23:22:00  <Sacro> thats so impressive!
23:22:08  <grimrc1> most of our doors aren't fully closed, but they're heavy and take some effort; she's a small long-haired cat
23:22:29  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
23:23:54  <grimrc1> have you guys seen that video of an African grey research parrot that can talk, but not imitating people; you can ask it what colour something is (red, etc.), to name an object (key, etc.) and a few other things
23:24:28  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
23:27:43  * Sacro fancies playing OpenTTD...or having sex...
23:28:06  <JohnUK89> Sacro: looks like it's the first then :P
23:28:29  <Sacro> JohnUK89: most likely :(
23:28:43  <Sacro> sophie has gone to bed
23:28:47  <JohnUK89> Well do you have a girlfriend?
23:28:54  <Sacro> nope
23:29:10  <JohnUK89> You've had it then :P
23:29:13  <JohnUK89> OTTD it is
23:29:38  <Sacro> both, within the space of 5 minutes...
23:29:42  <Sacro> that was a fun afternoon
23:29:51  <JohnUK89> lol
23:30:18  <Sacro> im hoping that uni is a good place to meet the ladies
23:30:46  <JohnUK89> Yeah, it will be...shame that it being Hull they'll all have 6 kids by then
23:31:02  <Sacro> nope, we get a lot of outsiders
23:31:07  <Sacro> chinese mainly :S
23:31:12  <JohnUK89> Lol
23:31:32  <JohnUK89> They breed like rabbits too...they've got 1.2 billion of em already in China
23:31:35  <Sacro> but i have 1 year at college first
23:31:42  <Sacro> hmm, thats true
23:31:50  <Sacro> but i'd happily swap the chinese for the chavs
23:31:55  <grimrc1> hah
23:31:55  <JohnUK89> lol
23:31:58  <JohnUK89> same
23:32:14  <Sacro> at least the chinese have tastier food
23:32:21  <JohnUK89> Yeah :P
23:32:35  <smeding> i don't like Chinese :p
23:33:01  <Sacro> ooh i think its gorgeous
23:33:05  <smeding> i like Indonesian food though which the Chinese restaurants around here sell too
23:33:14  <Sacro> i havent tried that yet
23:33:16  <smeding> so everyone thinks it's Chinese but it's not :<
23:33:18  <Sacro> or thai
23:33:20  <smeding> fried rice = <3
23:33:24  <smeding> nasi in fact.
23:33:42  <smeding> mmm peanut sauce.
23:33:47  <smeding> aka sateh :p
23:34:05  <JohnUK89> lol
23:35:50  <JohnUK89> Anyone know of a good Linux proggy for managing games controllers?
23:36:52  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
23:37:33  <JohnUK89> I got 2 controllers and don't know what the default one is lol
23:37:57  <Sacro> JohnUK89: cat
23:38:31  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
23:38:35  <JohnUK89> And how does that help?
23:38:36  <JohnUK89> Lol
23:38:37  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: start a game with the default one only and see which one affects the game
23:38:55  <Sacro> cat /dev/input/js0
23:39:02  <Sacro> and wiggle the controller
23:39:39  <JohnUK89> And how do I swap em?
23:39:45  <Sacro> ah
23:39:48  <Sacro> errm..
23:39:54  <Sacro> plug em in in a different order
23:40:05  <JohnUK89> Short of that, I can't be bothered :P
23:40:25  <Bjarni> my next patch is showing progress :D
23:40:48  <Bjarni> it will be done tomorrow
23:43:07  <Bjarni> and nobody asks me what patch it is?
23:43:18  <Bjarni> makes me wonder if it worth my time to code for you guys
23:43:36  <MaulingMonkey> Sorry, I'm just distracted by the wonderful game you've helped build.
23:43:38  <JohnUK89> What is said patch?
23:43:43  <MaulingMonkey> Whatchya working on for me to test this time? :-)
23:44:49  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:45:33  <Bjarni> control click on goto depot will make the vehicle service at the depot instead of stopping
23:45:35  <JohnUK89> Ooh Dreamcast Linux
23:45:44  <Bjarni> already works for trains
23:45:52  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: ooh nice :)
23:46:00  <MaulingMonkey> Interesting.  And neat :-)
23:46:17  <MaulingMonkey> Speaking of patches...
23:46:20  <MaulingMonkey> !seen Celestar
23:46:20  <_42_> MaulingMonkey, Celestar ( was last seen quitting #openttd 3 days 8 hours 46 minutes ago (23.08. 15:00) stating "Quit: Lost terminal" after spending 2 hours 1 minute there.
23:46:25  <MaulingMonkey> Bah!
23:46:48  <Bjarni> he is asleep anyway
23:47:35  <MaulingMonkey> That silly European.
23:47:45  <MaulingMonkey> Or at least I'm guessing he's European.
23:47:50  <Bjarni> well
23:47:54  <Bjarni> we are in the same timezone
23:48:17  <MaulingMonkey> Then again for all I know he's a hot japanese chick or something.
23:48:38  <Bjarni> I think the nice touch to this patch is that I needed some way to tell the two different goto depot options apart (like, did I hold down control when I clicked), and I was out of room in the vehicle window, so I decided to colour the name of the depot in the heading for string. Green means that it will leave right away and red means that it stops
23:49:09  <Bjarni> <MaulingMonkey>	Then again for all I know he's a hot japanese chick or something. <-- named Victor.... fat chance for that :P
23:49:18  <Sacro> heh
23:49:41  <MaulingMonkey> Named Victoria, using Victor to dissuade thousands of potentially would-be suitors?
23:49:46  <Bjarni> <MaulingMonkey>	Then again for all I know he's a hot japanese chick or something. <--- errr.... "he's a hot japanese chick"
23:50:23  <Sacro> surely it'd be Wictolia *hides*
23:50:24  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: Yeah I know, the wonders of the english languge having no gender-neutral pronouns :-)
23:50:45  <Bjarni> it
23:51:03  <MaulingMonkey> That arn't considered disrespectful or odd ;-)
23:51:13  <Bjarni> well, either way, you don't have a chance. "it" is living with "it's" girlfriend
23:51:17  <MaulingMonkey> At least when applied to another person.
23:51:55  <Bjarni> so either he is male or lesbian and you got nothing to gain from either of those scenarios
23:52:08  <Sacro> LESBIANS :D
23:52:09  <MaulingMonkey> Psssch.  She could be bi-curious.
23:52:11  <Bjarni> you horny bastard :p
23:52:15  *** Dred_furst^away is now known as Dred_furst
23:52:24  <Bjarni> oh uh
23:52:29  <Bjarni> now I got Sacro started
23:52:39  <MaulingMonkey> Hehehe
23:52:40  <Sacro> mwahahahaha
23:52:48  <Bjarni> I think he highlights with a special sound when lesbian is mentioned in the channel
23:53:05  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:53:30  <Sacro> heh
23:53:41  *** Peach [] has quit []
23:53:42  <Sacro> there are other words i pick up on
23:53:48  <Bjarni> gay
23:54:19  <Sacro> mmmmmm lesbians
23:54:19  <Bjarni> Sacro: if you don't react to gay, then you are sexist :p
23:54:29  <Sacro> Bjarni: so what if i am?
23:54:37  <Bjarni> hmm
23:54:41  <Sacro> but that goes for all hetrosexuals
23:54:56  <MaulingMonkey> Wouldn't it be sexualist?
23:54:57  <Bjarni> all hetrosexuals are sexists?
23:55:02  <izhirahider> JohnUK89, thanks
23:55:12  <JohnUK89> izhirahider: sorted?
23:55:39  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: Sure. Your typical hetrosexual male will higlight on "nekkid wommenz", and ignore any "nekkid manz".
23:55:51  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit: Probably doing something else]
23:56:04  <MaulingMonkey> Same logic :-)
23:56:10  <izhirahider> JohnUK89, not really, but at least it's a start
23:56:39  <JohnUK89> izhirahider: yeah, it got really annoying having to kill compiz every time :-\
23:57:17  <Sacro> nekkid wommenz :D
23:58:58  <izhirahider> still needs some polish, yes
23:59:15  <Sacro> mmmm, polishing nekkid wommenz

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