Log for #openttd on 28th August 2006:
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00:00:16  *** Stormscape [~Stormscap@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:03:18  *** Ammler_pfuus [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:04:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> 10.* adresses are also possible
00:04:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> chances are, it is in the documentation of your modem ;)
00:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> (or try googling for the name/type of the modem)
00:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> according to YaST, mine has
00:18:36  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
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00:18:49  * JohnUK89 is happy :)
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00:19:07  <JohnUK89> The 32bpp branch plays fair with Compiz :-D
00:20:43  <JohnUK89> Also runs faster :P
00:22:02  <MaulingMonkey> I need to figure out where that "build crazy shit under bridges" patch went
00:22:39  <JohnUK89> Wasn't that a whole branch?
00:22:47  <MaulingMonkey> Quite possibly.
00:23:19  <JohnUK89> Well there's a branch called bridge (or bridges, can't remember)
00:23:33  <MaulingMonkey> bridge... I'll check it out :)
00:23:34  <JohnUK89> Haven't got round to looking at it
00:24:02  <MaulingMonkey> It was in trunk for a moment, something about graphics glitches I think was their excuse for taking it back out :(
00:24:06  <JohnUK89> Too busy getting Midi support installed at the moment...I miss the TTD music :(
00:24:23  <JohnUK89> MaulingMonkey: aah
00:24:32  <JohnUK89> I want 32bpp to be merged :-D
00:24:38  <MaulingMonkey> And the only ones I recognized are still in trunk *anyways* :P
00:24:49  <JohnUK89> would help Compiz users like me :P
00:25:23  <JohnUK89> MaulingMonkey: lol
00:25:48  <MaulingMonkey> Oh yay project file bug.
00:25:56  <MaulingMonkey> I saw this one on the forum too <_<
00:26:15  <JohnUK89> MaulingMonkey: get a decent compiler :P
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00:26:27  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: Ello :)
00:26:33  <grimrc1> hello
00:26:34  <MaulingMonkey> Faulty paths are hardly the IDE's fault <_<
00:26:56  <ln-> Bjarni: are you sure you are talking about Cocoa and not Carbon being deprecated?
00:27:02  <JohnUK89> Who needs an IDE when you can have make? lol
00:28:04  <JohnUK89> Hmm, who maintains 32bpp?
00:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> MaulingMonkey: the bridge branch was removed from trunk, because it was not ready
00:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> (broke savegame compatibility, for example)
00:28:51  <JohnUK89> Hell, whoever it is, someone kick their ass until it gets a sync with trunk :-D
00:29:07  <MaulingMonkey> Ahh, so there was more than just the graphics issue I recalled
00:29:10  <MaulingMonkey> phatooie.
00:29:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> JohnUK89: this was discussed just before you joined...
00:29:33  <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause2: aah, didn't see :P
00:29:41  <JohnUK89> (Because I wan't here)
00:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> (well... like 2h ago)
00:29:48  <SpComb> Logs:
00:29:48  <JohnUK89> !logs
00:32:03  <ln-> Bjarni: my OS X oriented coder friend says:
00:32:11  <ln-> (03:31:22) blackis: I can't understand what part of that code would be deprecated
00:32:14  <ln-> (03:31:34) blackis: Since that's basically part of the Carbon API
00:32:16  <ln-> (03:31:27) blackis: possibly the QuickDraw parts used for blitting
00:32:20  <MaulingMonkey> bingo
00:32:31  <MaulingMonkey> At least, that's the part I noticed.
00:33:54  <MaulingMonkey> And OpenTTD likes to play around with pointers to pixel buffers in a manner which leaves me not quite understanding how to proceed since I'm unfamiliar with OpenTTD's source, the underlying language (Objective C), the origin API (QuickDraw), and the target API (Quartz) :P
00:34:16  <MaulingMonkey> So I'm basically just hoping someone else does it <_< >_>
00:35:08  <ln-> (03:34:31) blackis: However since the rest of the code is already Cocoa the changes should be rather minimal
00:36:43  <MaulingMonkey> Hopefully :)
00:38:08  <grimrc1> what's this option to add a poll to a new topic (on the forum)?
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00:38:22  <ln-> (03:37:56) blackis: All that's basically needed as far as I can see from quickly watching the code is replacing the NSQuickDrawView with an ordinary NSView, then allocate memory for pixels with CGBitmapContextCreate, create an Image representation using CGBitmapContextCreateImage and then replace blitting with CGContextDrawImage
00:38:30  <ln-> (03:38:19) blackis: Blitting will have to be done explicitly at some point, as Quartz will *not* let you modify pixels manually anywhere
00:39:48  <ln-> (03:39:37) blackis: Making a new image representation using CGBitmapContextCreateImage is needed before each blit, as the pixels of a CGImage are immutable
00:39:52  <ln-> (03:39:40) blackis: CGBitmapContextCreateImage is supposed to be fast though
00:48:10  <Bjarni> nice
00:48:47  <SpComb> Logs:
00:48:47  <MaulingMonkey> !logs
00:49:18  <Bjarni> ln-: do you think you can convince ln- to do it?
00:49:23  <Bjarni> err
00:49:32  <Bjarni> ln-: do you think you can convince blackis to do it?
00:49:54  * Bjarni would already be in bed if ln- didn't write anything
00:50:56  <ln-> i can ask, but i warn you that he's not addicted to OpenTTD (yet).
00:51:09  <Bjarni> ok, work a bit more on him then :)
00:51:17  <Bjarni> now I really need to sleep
00:51:19  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:51:20  <ln-> gn
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00:54:18  <JohnUK89> I'm off too, night
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01:00:39  <grimrc1> gn
01:05:17  <grimrc1> so are // style comments frowned upon?  I'm commenting my screensaver.patch
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01:07:06  <MaulingMonkey> I frown upon them in C code, but you wouldn't be the first one to add them.
01:09:11  *** Dred_furst is now known as Dred_furst^away
01:10:00  <ln-> blackis is working on the thing
01:10:06  <MaulingMonkey> awesome!
01:10:30  <ln-> he said he'll give it 30 mins. let's see what will he achieve during that time.
01:13:29  *** Dred_furst^away is now known as Dred_furst
01:19:08  <grimrc1> I think all this coding style stuff is nonsense anyway; I'm sure there are utilities that'll reformat C code to your liking
01:32:15  <MaulingMonkey> And will then cause thousands of lines of cosmetic fixes when you go and diff the file versus trunk.
01:32:45  <MaulingMonkey> :)
01:33:09  <MaulingMonkey> cosmetic difference that arn't even agreed upon at that.
01:38:07  <grimrc1> MaulingMonkey: not with a utility to enforce coding style
01:38:37  <grimrc1> I mean for users or svn
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01:39:11  <MaulingMonkey> You're more than welcome to force your code to conform to their standards with a utility.
01:39:39  <grimrc1> a smarter diff for svn diff - you can change the diff, but it's a little inflexible atm
01:39:40  <MaulingMonkey> However, they'd rather not force people to do it by utility if they'd rather do it by hand :-)
01:40:19  <MaulingMonkey> And changing how SVN does it's diff format is outside the scope of the OpenTTD project :P
01:42:39  <grimrc1> MaulingMonkey: sort of yeah; but it'd save lots of people time; people have to look at patches before they can tell the coding style's wrong (I've read it on flyspray)
01:44:05  <MaulingMonkey> Of course, they need to look at the patches anyways if they're making sure the patch is okay, because coding style is not the only potential fault :P
01:46:03  <grimrc1> I hope my screensaver one gets applied
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03:33:37  <Stranger> hello
03:34:35  <Stranger> for some reason I keep getting network disconnects
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03:35:16  <grimrc1> strange
03:36:10  <Stranger> in game
03:36:14  <Stranger> my connection is good, T3
03:37:08  <Stranger> bah, it just happened again
03:37:16  <Stranger> what port does ttd use?
03:40:33  <grimrc1> dunno - you on *nix?
03:40:41  <Stranger> no
03:41:11  <grimrc1> oh; so you haven't tried playing openttd from a console and seeing if any errors occur?
03:41:18  <Stranger> u-nix?
03:41:18  <Stranger> there's firewall, but I wouldn't be able to even connect if that were the case?
03:41:33  <Stranger> console?
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03:44:24  <grimrc1> openttd   22736 guest   19u     IPv4     108147                UDP *:1032
03:44:24  <grimrc1> openttd   22736 guest   21u     IPv4     108406                UDP *:3979
03:44:33  <Stranger> ok thx
03:44:35  <grimrc1> openttd   22736 guest   13r     IPv4     108405                TCP *:3979 (LISTEN)
03:44:44  <Stranger> i've just created a test server
03:44:48  <Stranger> i'm going to see if anything happens
03:45:01  <grimrc1> that's what I get when I run a server - I can't join one because I'm using the svn version (latest)
03:45:17  <grimrc1> Stranger: have you tried with different servers?
03:45:26  <Stranger> yes
03:49:28  <Stranger> well, the server seems to be going ok
03:49:31  <Stranger> so far no crashing
03:50:17  <grimrc1> 'crashing'?
03:51:38  <Stranger> well, it seems i can host a server
03:52:00  <Stranger> I will try and join another random server
03:52:22  <Stranger> i'm spectating a dedicated
03:53:26  <Stranger> yep, connection lost
03:54:05  <grimrc1> it may be the firewall
03:54:12  <Stranger> that disconnects the connection?
03:54:16  <Stranger> funny thing is
03:54:23  <Stranger> first time i tried using open ttd was like yesterday
03:54:41  <Stranger> and I was able to be in a network game for like 15 minutse
03:54:52  <Stranger> in fact, I left, then when I wanted to rejoin, I started getting disconnects
03:56:07  <grimrc1> don't know really, but I'd try without if that's easy, or try completely opening the ports at least, UDP & TCP
03:56:31  <Stranger> well, i'm at an apartment on a university network
03:56:35  <Stranger> so I can't control that
03:56:47  <MaulingMonkey> !openttd port
03:56:48  <_42_> MaulingMonkey: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
03:57:41  <grimrc1> that's weird, I got this openttd   22736 guest   19u     IPv4     108147                UDP *:1032
03:57:47  <grimrc1> is that outbound?
03:57:51  <Stranger> it could be routine maintenance on the severs here
03:58:11  <MaulingMonkey> mmm, outbound typically uses high ports, don't it?
03:58:13  <Stranger> i'll try again late
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03:58:31  <MaulingMonkey> Can't say for certain, sorry mate.
03:58:41  <MaulingMonkey> Might be though.
03:59:08  <grimrc1> God you're right!
03:59:41  <MaulingMonkey> I'm not god <_< >_>
03:59:52  <MaulingMonkey> Although that's not a bad rumor to start :D
03:59:54  <grimrc1> ok I'll try to remember that
04:00:13  <grimrc1> why's my openttd using 1032 - that's weird - I was running a server to test
04:01:34  <MaulingMonkey> Does it change if you restart OpenTTD?
04:01:51  <grimrc1> I'll give it a whirl
04:01:54  <MaulingMonkey> That would indicate it's a randomly assigned port (and thus an outbound connection probably yes)
04:02:15  <MaulingMonkey> (I don't even know the command you're fiddling around with, but that's how sockets work from what I recall)
04:03:12  <grimrc1> I grep lsof for openttd and udp/tcp
04:03:19  <grimrc1> lsof is neat
04:05:29  <grimrc1> openttd   25260 guest   19u     IPv4     112808                UDP *:1037
04:05:37  <grimrc1> only that port opens when I search for servers
04:06:16  <MaulingMonkey> LAN search or internet?
04:06:23  <grimrc1> internet
04:06:28  <MaulingMonkey> Peculiar
04:07:31  <grimrc1> not running as root of course
04:08:02  <grimrc1> I just restarted it and searched LAN and got:
04:08:05  <grimrc1> openttd   25320 guest   19u     IPv4     113692                UDP *:1038
04:08:24  <MaulingMonkey> Mmmyes, sonuds like an auto-assigned outbound port :)
04:08:53  <grimrc1> isn't 1024 the reserved port limit?
04:09:21  <MaulingMonkey> From what I recall, yes, you need to run as root to use a port bellow (or at?) that.
04:09:34  <MaulingMonkey> On your typical linux kernel anyways.
04:10:29  <grimrc1> oh so 103? is not concerning then
04:11:18  <MaulingMonkey> 103? > 1024
04:12:22  <MaulingMonkey> Err yes.
04:12:27  <MaulingMonkey> (misread that as connecting)
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04:18:44  <Stormscape> hmmm
04:18:52  <Stormscape> still having errors trying to run openttd
04:19:49  <Stormscape> specifically what seems to be and the graphics files from TTDX
04:19:56  <Stormscape> says they're corrupted or missing
04:20:38  <grimrc1> Stormscape: what OS?
04:20:45  <Stormscape> Fedora Core 5
04:21:04  <Stormscape> I know they're not corrupted, TTDX runs just fine when I boot Windows
04:22:17  <grimrc1> Stormscape: it probably can't find the files - it's a silly error message
04:22:35  <Stormscape> the files are just supposed to be where OpenTTD was compiled, right?
04:23:16  <Stormscape> which for me is /usr/bin/
04:24:50  <grimrc1> Stormscape: you could try strace openttd to find out where it's looking for them - might use a relative path in the system call though
04:25:17  <Stormscape> I'm not familiar with strace, how does it work and what should I type?
04:25:32  <grimrc1> mine are in /usr/share/games/openttd/data/
04:26:04  <Stormscape> strace isn't even a command in FC5 it seems, I tried "strace --help"
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04:26:31  <grimrc1> open("/usr/share/games/openttd/data/trg1.grf", O_RDONLY) = 3
04:26:39  <grimrc1> probably isn't installed
04:26:48  <grimrc1> Stormscape: how did you compile openttd?
04:27:05  <Stormscape> just with a make command
04:27:21  <grimrc1> I think you're supposed to do make INSTALL:=1
04:27:33  <Stormscape> I was told install was broken and not to use it
04:27:34  <grimrc1> inside Makefile.config there are options
04:27:44  <grimrc1> Stormscape: oh - I'm using it hehe
04:28:09  <grimrc1> Stormscape: INSTALL:=1 might not matter; did you tweak Makefile.config ?
04:28:14  <Stormscape> nope
04:28:25  <grimrc1> there's a DATA_DIR option or something like it
04:28:34  <Stormscape> man
04:28:41  <Stormscape> it's gonna be fun cleaning up /usr/bin
04:28:44  <grimrc1> it's not the p
04:28:47  <grimrc1> haha
04:28:49  <Stormscape> there's source files in there
04:28:51  <Stormscape> and compiled stuff
04:28:55  <Stormscape> and Linux stuff
04:28:55  <grimrc1> oh man that's not good
04:29:01  <grimrc1> man ls
04:29:08  <grimrc1> sort by date or something
04:29:28  <Stormscape> Firefox is installed there too
04:29:37  <grimrc1> the source!?
04:29:40  <Stormscape> no
04:29:42  <Stormscape> just Firefox itself
04:29:47  <Stormscape> like hell I'm gonna compil Firefox
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04:30:03  <grimrc1> oh - well openttd can go in /usr/bin probably, but the data files have to go in a different directory
04:30:31  <grimrc1> Stormscape: try make install for openttd again, and look for where it puts the data directory ??
04:30:48  <Stormscape> hey
04:30:48  <grimrc1> mine is /usr/share/games/openttd/data/  (Gentoo)
04:30:52  <Stormscape> I found the data directory
04:30:56  <Stormscape> /usr/bin/data
04:31:00  <Stormscape> silly me
04:31:11  <grimrc1> Stormscape: well it's there normally if you haven't installed openttd
04:31:24  <Stormscape> thre's OpenTTD stuff in there
04:31:25  <grimrc1> putting anything in /usr/bin yourself is a very bad idea
04:31:31  <Stormscape> namely openttd.grf
04:31:52  <grimrc1> Stormscape: it's because you unpacked the source in there; you may be able to put the data files in there and make it work
04:32:04  <Stormscape> probably
04:32:17  <Stormscape> what's the names of all th graphics files again?
04:33:09  <grimrc1> uhm
04:33:11  <grimrc1> -rw-r--r-- 1 root games 2.4M Feb  8  1996 trg1.grf
04:33:11  <grimrc1> -rw-r--r-- 1 root games 261K Oct 11  1995 trgc.grf
04:33:11  <grimrc1> -rw-r--r-- 1 root games 401K Feb 11  1996 trgh.grf
04:33:11  <grimrc1> -rw-r--r-- 1 root games 287K Feb  8  1996 trgi.grf
04:33:11  <grimrc1> -rw-r--r-- 1 root games 546K Oct 11  1995 trgt.grf
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04:34:03  <Stormscape> you know
04:34:07  <Stormscape> I should probably start over
04:34:11  <Stormscape> remove the source from thre
04:34:13  <Stormscape> remove OpenTTD
04:34:18  <Stormscape> and try again
04:35:47  <grimrc1> yeah suppose so
04:37:19  <Stormscape> the fun part is gonna be removing OpenTTD without breaking firefox
04:37:39  <Stormscape> or anything else
04:38:14  <grimrc1> just ls by date
04:38:28  <grimrc1> well, that'll catch *most* files
04:39:00  <grimrc1> there are bash scripting ways to do it, but they're a little complicated
04:39:58  <grimrc1> ls -1 /home/user/myproperopenttdsourcedir/ | while read VAR; do rm /usr/bin/$VAR; done   --- not guaranteed to work in this state - needs debugging
04:40:52  <Stormscape> ok "ls --sort=time" is the correct syntax for sortin by time, right?
04:41:30  <grimrc1> yep
04:41:45  <grimrc1> I use -l -h too
04:41:58  <grimrc1> or -1
04:42:12  <grimrc1> (-1 is one and -l is el the letter)
04:42:16  <Stormscape> typically I want to get rid of the newer stuff, right?
04:42:40  <grimrc1> Stormscape: yeah; if you unpack the source somewhere else, you can look at the file names
04:42:48  <Stormscape> hmmm
04:43:03  <Stormscape> there's so much stuff in my /usr/bin it truncates it at February 2006
04:44:04  <grimrc1> -r to reverse order
04:44:32  <Stormscape> k
04:44:51  <grimrc1> Stormscape: maybe a GUI's better if you're not bash scripting
04:45:22  <Stormscape> like hell I'm gonna bother starting a new session
04:45:39  <Stormscape> I can't make changes in /usr/bin
04:45:45  <grimrc1> wrong user
04:45:49  <Stormscape> only root can write thre
04:46:30  <Stormscape> you think I'd be using bash if I was logged in as root
04:47:17  <grimrc1> suppose - you can run a file manager as root, even though you log in as a non-root user - do by su-ing in a terminal and then running the GUI program by name
04:47:41  <Stormscape> good point
04:48:55  <Stormscape> does konqueror have the list view like Windows Explorer?
04:49:20  <grimrc1> dunno - been a while
04:49:28  <grimrc1> pretty sure it would though
04:49:57  <Stormscape> well if it does I can't find it
04:50:01  <Stormscape> it's probably right in front of me
04:50:06  <Stormscape> yup
04:50:11  <Stormscape> right in front of me
04:51:08  <grimrc1> so, you're going to untar source code in its own dir in future?
04:51:24  <Stormscape> yes
04:51:35  <Stormscape> I learned my lesson
04:51:39  <Stormscape> if I ever find all the files
04:51:51  <grimrc1> the shell script way I said would find them
04:52:43  <Stormscape> ok that looks like all of them
04:52:47  <Stormscape> deleted all the C source files
04:52:50  <grimrc1> Stormscape: dirs too
04:52:54  <Stormscape> those too
04:52:57  <grimrc1> *.o
04:52:59  <grimrc1> *.h
04:53:01  <Stormscape> and deleted anything really new
04:53:09  <grimrc1> Makefile*
04:53:45  <Stormscape> I'm not deleting any shell scripts. there's a billion of those in here
04:54:13  <grimrc1> no, I meant writing a bash shell script to do the job for oyu
04:54:19  <Stormscape> oh
04:54:31  <Stormscape> ok let's try this again
04:55:25  <grimrc1> the cryptic ' corrupted' error message got me too you'll be glad to know; I was thinking about fixing it
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04:56:52  <Stormscape> ok let's see
04:56:58  <Stormscape> time to figure the install option
04:57:31  <grimrc1> oh, if you ever want to run openttd as a screensaver; takes some work though:
04:58:09  <Stormscape> hmmm
04:58:20  <Stormscape> would the default options for install work in Fedora Coe?
04:58:22  <Stormscape> *Core
04:58:32  <grimrc1> Stormscape: afraid I don't know
04:58:50  <grimrc1> the most important thing I noticed is the SOMETHING_DIR variables in Makefile.config
04:59:40  <grimrc1> but you need to know where your distro usually puts stuff (by cd-ing around I suppose), although you could just use /openttd/data for example
05:00:26  <Stormscape> well
05:00:30  <Stormscape> there is a /usr/games folder
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05:00:48  <Stormscape> I guess OpenTTD could go there
05:01:10  <grimrc1> true, but there's probably a /usr/games/bin folder, a /usr/games/share folder etc. etc.
05:01:26  <grimrc1> normally *nix programs separate things, such as data and executables
05:01:42  <Stormscape> /usr/games is empty
05:01:58  <grimrc1> BINARY_DIR:=games/bin
05:01:58  <grimrc1> DATA_DIR:=share/games/openttd
05:01:58  <grimrc1> ICON_DIR:=
05:01:58  <grimrc1> USE_HOMEDIR:=1
05:01:58  <grimrc1> PERSONAL_DIR:=
05:02:15  <grimrc1> PREFIX:=/usr
05:02:19  <Stormscape> hmmm
05:02:25  <Stormscape> my makefile is different
05:02:30  <grimrc1> that's an *example* - my custom ones for Gentoo
05:02:45  <grimrc1> PREFIX goes before the other dirs
05:02:54  <Stormscape> which OpenTTD are you using? 0.4.8 or one ofthe nightlys?
05:02:58  <grimrc1> svn
05:03:05  <grimrc1> though I did use 0.4.8 before too
05:03:07  <Stormscape> that explains it
05:03:10  <Stormscape> I'm using 0.4.8
05:03:40  <grimrc1> Gentoo compiled & installed 0.4.8 properly for me; you should be able to get a 0.4.8 package for your distro really
05:04:08  <Stormscape> there isn't one
05:04:11  <Stormscape> I checked thoroughly
05:04:23  <grimrc1> wow - is that what Redhat's reduced to heh
05:04:32  <Stormscape> apparantly
05:04:39  <Stormscape> and Fedora Core 5 is actually rather good
05:04:56  <grimrc1> oh well - so's Gentoo
05:05:26  <Stormscape> PREFIX:=/usr
05:05:26  <Stormscape> DATA_DIR:=games/openttd
05:05:26  <Stormscape> BINARY_DIR:=games
05:05:26  <Stormscape> PERSONAL_DIR:=.openttd
05:05:29  <Stormscape> USE_HOMEDIR:=1
05:05:29  <Stormscape> think that would work?
05:06:16  <grimrc1> maybe - not sure about PERSONAL_DIR - mine is unset - I don't think you're supposed to use it at the same time as USE_HOMEDIR:=1; read the Makefile.config comments
05:06:53  <Stormscape> I did. says use_homedir is to tell OpenTTD where to put saves
05:07:06  <grimrc1> Stormscape: with those settings, your ttd data files should be put in /usr/games/openttd/data
05:07:11  <Stormscape> errrr
05:07:13  <Stormscape> wait
05:07:15  <Stormscape> re-reads
05:07:17  <Stormscape> ahhh
05:07:25  <Stormscape> use_homedir is to tell it where to put the data dirs
05:07:26  <Stormscape> and gm
05:07:33  <Stormscape> .openttd is where saves and scenarios go
05:07:39  <grimrc1> oh
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05:07:52  <Stormscape> ok here gos nothing
05:08:37  <Stormscape> did a "make install"
05:08:43  <grimrc1> the thing is, if you're not installing openttd with INSTALL:=1, maybe this is a waste of time and you should be using /path/to/openttdsourcedir/data
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05:09:15  <Stormscape> well
05:09:20  <grimrc1> Stormscape: for make install to work properly you have to, make INSTALL:=1 then make install INSTALL:=1   - I was told
05:09:32  <Stormscape> apparantly /usr/games can only be written to by root
05:09:42  <grimrc1> or change the Makefile.config
05:09:43  <Stormscape> time to open a konsole window as root
05:09:45  <Stormscape> as usual
05:09:52  <Stormscape> an do what?
05:09:54  <grimrc1> Stormscape: you can run make install as root
05:10:07  <grimrc1> or change the Makefile.config - to set INSTALL:=1 if you want to
05:12:00  <Stormscape> hmm
05:12:03  <Stormscape> getting an error
05:12:12  <Stormscape> install: cannot stat `openttd': No such file or directory
05:12:33  <grimrc1> what did you try?
05:12:39  <Stormscape> "make install INSTALL:=1"
05:12:48  <grimrc1> did you try make INSTALL:=1 first?
05:12:51  <Stormscape> it made all the directories in /usr/games correctly then failed
05:13:37  <grimrc1> I think this error means you haven't compiled 'openttd' the executable yet: install: cannot stat `openttd': No such file or directory
05:13:58  <Stormscape> so ummm
05:14:03  <Stormscape> how do I do that?
05:14:09  <grimrc1> make INSTALL:=1
05:14:14  <grimrc1> then make install INSTALL:=1
05:14:38  <Stormscape> are you sure that'll work?
05:14:44  <grimrc1> no
05:15:07  <Stormscape> at least the openttd source is in its own directory
05:15:13  <Stormscape> I just delete the directory if it didn't work
05:15:59  <grimrc1> true - instead, just make   - and nothing else; then copy ttd files to sourcedir/data/ and then run ./openttd from sourcedir/
05:16:25  <Stormscape> well
05:16:28  <Stormscape> it didn't work
05:16:34  <Stormscape> it just installed openttd in the source
05:16:36  <grimrc1> make on its own?
05:16:53  <grimrc1> yeah; you can run it from the sourcedir if you want
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05:17:04  <Stormscape> created a general mess in there
05:17:16  <grimrc1> I don't understand if you want to install it to the normal system dirs or just inside the sourcedir/ for testing
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05:17:53  <grimrc1> to install it in to the sourcedir for testing or whatever: make
05:17:57  <Stormscape> I want to install to normal system dirs
05:18:19  <grimrc1> to install it properly, set up the Makefile.config properly (as it seems you have) then: make INSTALL:=1; make install INSTALL:=1 (at your own risk)
05:18:39  <Stormscape> oh
05:18:39  <grimrc1> and you must run make install INSTALL:=1 as root
05:18:54  <Stormscape> "make INSTALL:=1; make install INSTALL:=1" as one command?
05:19:16  <grimrc1> Stormscape: if you like; the semicolon makes bash recognise it as two commands 1 after the other
05:19:27  <Stormscape> well I tried that
05:19:37  <grimrc1> really?  that fast?
05:19:42  <Stormscape> all it did was compile openttd in the source dir then it failed on the second command
05:19:57  <grimrc1> Stormscape: have you tried it again?
05:20:07  <Stormscape> it wouldn't change anything
05:20:18  <grimrc1> does it say Make: nothing to be done or something like that?
05:20:37  <Stormscape> no
05:20:43  <Stormscape> it just does that screwup
05:20:48  <Stormscape> "cannot stat" or whatever
05:21:01  <grimrc1> make clean; make INSTALL:=1; make install INSTALL:=1
05:21:47  <Stormscape> ok trying that
05:22:06  <grimrc1> the clean step cleans up old compile files and forces it to recompile (with the proper hardcoded directories you've set up in Makefile.config I hope)
05:22:41  <Stormscape> ok on the final command it screws up
05:22:49  <Stormscape> install: cannot overwrite directory `//usr/games/openttd' with non-directory
05:22:49  <Stormscape> make: *** [install] Error 1
05:23:13  <grimrc1> ohh
05:23:24  <Stormscape> and it's made a huge mess of the source directory again
05:23:40  <grimrc1> I think it's because openttd the exe is there, as is the openttd directory (with data files inside) - not allowed
05:23:59  <Stormscape> erm
05:24:04  <grimrc1> DATA_DIR:=games/openttd
05:24:09  <Stormscape> wouldn't openttd put the exe INSIDE the directory?
05:24:12  <grimrc1> DATA_DIR:=games/openttd-files ?
05:24:25  <grimrc1> BINARY_DIR:=games
05:24:35  <Stormscape> ah
05:24:37  <Stormscape> now I see
05:24:57  <grimrc1> nope - that's what BINARY_DIR is for; usually executables are separated from their data on Unix; ls -lh /bin shows you loads of exes with no data files
05:25:09  <grimrc1> or /usr/bin
05:25:10  <Stormscape> I'll try just make install INSTALL:=1 now
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05:25:23  <Stormscape> nope
05:25:24  <Stormscape> same error
05:25:25  <grimrc1> Stormscape: have you changed anything?
05:25:29  <Stormscape> I fixed DATA_DIR
05:25:34  <grimrc1> to what?
05:25:38  <Stormscape> what you suggested
05:25:50  <Stormscape> but I forgot to clear out /usr/games lol
05:25:53  <Stormscape> just remembered
05:26:05  <grimrc1> yeah - make install won't work now because the old dirs are hardcoded in to the openttd exe
05:26:15  <grimrc1> make clean; make INSTALL:=1; make install INSTALL:=1
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05:28:00  <Stormscape> hmmmm
05:28:16  <grimrc1> did it install ok?
05:29:40  <grimrc1> that's not the end of it; you have to put the TTD graphics and in $DATA_DIR/data/
05:29:57  <grimrc1> manually
05:29:59  <Stormscape> how do I change ownershp of a file?
05:30:04  <grimrc1> chown
05:30:12  <grimrc1> you should do make install as root
05:30:20  <Stormscape> I know
05:31:01  <Stormscape> I was just speeding something up
05:31:08  <Stormscape> changed Makefile.config
05:31:15  <Stormscape> gonna reextract the source (again)
05:31:24  <grimrc1> really why?
05:31:37  <grimrc1> those extra files in the source are made when it compiles; make clean removes them
05:31:43  <grimrc1> they're normal
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05:32:12  <Stormscape> well I made it so I don't have to type INSTALL:=1
05:32:19  <grimrc1> oh fair enough
05:32:47  <Stormscape> ok if this doesn't work I just don't know
05:33:01  <Stormscape> "make clean; make; make install" or is it somethig else?
05:34:04  <grimrc1> that's it, except make install needs root; others don't mind
05:34:17  <Stormscape> well it's all being run from a root konsole
05:34:32  <Stormscape> here goes nothing
05:35:38  <Stormscape> ok it basically did the same thing as before
05:35:58  <grimrc1> really??
05:36:03  <Stormscape> it's not making the right data directory name!
05:36:06  <Stormscape> oh ffs!
05:36:22  <grimrc1> I think you might have to put INSTALL:=1 on the commandline
05:36:45  <Stormscape> no, it's still making the data directory "openttd", not "openttd-files"
05:37:03  <grimrc1> strange
05:37:37  <grimrc1> you edited Makefile.config and not Makefile (they look almost the same)?
05:37:50  <Stormscape> yes
05:37:57  <Stormscape> Makefile.config looks vastly different
05:38:20  <Stormscape> aha
05:38:27  <Stormscape> Makefile.config doesn't have the updated data_dir
05:38:33  <grimrc1> maybe there path needs 'quoting like this'; but you could just call it something different than openttd without - instead?
05:38:58  <grimrc1> Stormscape: I'd use Makefile.config and make sure Makefile doesn't conflict
05:39:09  <Stormscape> they aren't conflicting
05:39:18  <grimrc1> oh
05:39:29  <Stormscape> make just isn't playing nice
05:39:39  <grimrc1> have you fixed it?
05:39:47  <Stormscape> trying to compile again
05:39:55  <Stormscape> with "make; make install" (already ran make clean
05:40:41  <Stormscape> got waaaaaaaaaaay
05:40:42  <Stormscape> furthur
05:40:43  <grimrc1> most projects have better build systems that autodetect more stuff
05:40:45  <Stormscape> but still failed
05:40:56  <Stormscape> cp scenario/* //usr/games/openttd-files/scenario/
05:40:56  <Stormscape> cp: cannot stat `scenario/*': No such file or directory
05:40:56  <Stormscape> make: *** [install] Error 1
05:41:11  <grimrc1> oh yeah that's normal bug
05:41:19  <Stormscape> how is that fixed?
05:41:38  <grimrc1> you have to place a file in scenario/ in sourcedir/ - it can be empty
05:41:49  <Stormscape> any specific name?
05:41:51  <grimrc1> nope
05:42:10  <Stormscape> then re-run "make; make install"?
05:42:13  <grimrc1> I think I had the same problem or saw it discussed a few days ago in here
05:42:19  <grimrc1> yeah rerun
05:42:24  <grimrc1> actually not make
05:42:27  <grimrc1> just make install
05:42:40  <Stormscape> well I had instinctively done make clean after it failed
05:42:48  <grimrc1> oh gotta start afresh then
05:43:02  <Stormscape> well it' not like I'm compiling a Linux kernel :D
05:43:13  <grimrc1> the Linux kernel build system is a bit nicer
05:43:16  <Stormscape> hmmm
05:43:18  <Stormscape> no messages
05:43:20  <Stormscape> I think it worked
05:43:29  <Stormscape> hmmm
05:43:30  <grimrc1> yep; need to copy data files to data/ dir now
05:43:37  <Stormscape> how do I add a place to my $PATH
05:43:46  <Stormscape> so I can just type openttd to run it
05:43:49  <grimrc1> PATH=$PATH:/new/path/here
05:44:07  <grimrc1> I was worried your choice of openttd BINARY_DIR might not be a normal $PATH one
05:44:21  <Stormscape> so for me, PATH=$PATH:/usr/games/openttd or /usr/games?
05:44:37  <grimrc1> /usr/games if openttd exe is at /usr/games/openttd
05:44:45  <Stormscape> it is
05:45:01  <Stormscape> ok it found openttd
05:45:07  <Stormscape> now to copy the graphics
05:45:23  <Stormscape> after I get something to drink
05:45:31  <grimrc1> trouble is, setting $PATH this way isn't permanent; you have to find where it's set system wide; I think it's /etc/profile  ----- PATH=$PATH:/usr/games would suffice
05:45:42  <grimrc1> alcoholic?  hehe
05:46:13  <grimrc1> I'll make sure the guy who wrote the build system knows he's driving users to drink
05:46:29  <Stormscape> hehehe
05:46:34  <Stormscape> I wish I had alcohol after this
05:46:37  <Stormscape> just coca-cola
05:46:56  <grimrc1> yeah; openttd build is quite troublesome
05:46:58  <Stormscape> if I knew how to program i'd write a better build system
05:47:21  <Stormscape> sigh
05:47:27  <Stormscape> forgot to mount that windows partition
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05:49:20  <Stormscape> :D
05:49:22  <Stormscape> SUCCESS
05:49:51  <Stormscape> Thanks for all the help grimrc1
05:50:15  <grimrc1> cool
05:50:18  <grimrc1> have fun
05:51:36  <Stormscape> hmmm
05:51:52  <Stormscape> I just discovered something on I wish I had discovered before I compiled
05:51:55  <Stormscape> path base signals
05:52:00  <Stormscape> *Based
05:52:29  <Stormscape> oh well
05:52:34  <grimrc1> Stormscape: I was just thinking, 0.4.8 is a bit out-dated really (even though it's the latest stable release) - MiniN are quite popular
05:53:35  <grimrc1> actually ignore that; 0.4.8 is very popular
05:57:46  <Stormscape> that took like what, 2 hours?
05:58:33  <grimrc1> really!?
05:58:40  <SpComb> Logs:
05:58:40  <grimrc1> !logs
06:00:21  <grimrc1> 23:45:02 < Stormscape> man, I'm getting really good at asking important questions and getting immediately ignored.
06:00:21  <grimrc1> 23:45:10 <@MiHaMiX> :D
06:00:21  <grimrc1> 23:45:24 < Stormscape> :D
06:00:22  <grimrc1> hehe
06:00:55  <grimrc1> 07:18:41 -!- Stormscape [] has joined #openttd
06:00:56  <Stormscape> what time is it now in those logs?
06:01:13  <grimrc1> 07:18:41 -!- Stormscape [] has joined #openttd
06:01:20  <grimrc1> 09:00:56 < Stormscape> what time is it now in those logs?
06:01:23  <Stormscape> :O
06:01:26  <grimrc1> God!
06:01:27  <Stormscape> 9 hours?!
06:01:32  <Stormscape> jesus
06:01:34  <Stormscape> then again
06:01:36  <grimrc1> 1 hour 42 minutes?
06:01:43  <Stormscape> oh
06:01:44  <Stormscape> nvm
06:01:54  <grimrc1> but that includes sitting-around-feeling-chuffed time
06:01:58  <Stormscape> ya
06:02:00  <Stormscape> lol
06:02:13  <Stormscape> 2 hours isn't bad for compiling a game Iguess
06:02:17  <Stormscape> man
06:02:18  <grimrc1> I'm surprised it was that long - see you must have been having fun really
06:02:27  <grimrc1> hah
06:02:28  <Stormscape> I really need a keyboard that plays nice with Linux
06:02:41  <grimrc1> is the keymap wrong?
06:02:46  <Stormscape> this thing keeps sending extra stuff to Linux
06:02:55  <grimrc1> weird - USB?
06:02:55  <Stormscape> or forgets to send stuff
06:03:05  <Stormscape> it's a Mircrosoft wireless multimedia keybord
06:03:14  <grimrc1> I was just about to guess wireless
06:03:20  <Stormscape> the wireless is fine
06:03:22  <grimrc1> works ok with Windows?
06:03:24  <Stormscape> it works in Windows no problem
06:03:35  <grimrc1> oh strange
06:03:53  <Stormscape> also plays nice on my friend's Mandrake computer
06:04:06  <grimrc1> even stranger
06:04:56  <grimrc1> USB problem I bet
06:05:16  <CIA-2> tron * r6180 /trunk/gfx.c: Use a switch instead of function pointers to choose the blitter
06:05:32  <Stormscape> it's a PS/2 keyboard
06:05:50  <grimrc1> ohhh
06:05:54  <Stormscape> they made it PS/2 because some old BIOSs don't support USB keyboards that well
06:06:02  <Stormscape> see, Microsoft is smart sometimes
06:06:22  <grimrc1> USB -> PS/2 adapter
06:06:22  <Stormscape> and this keyboard has taken ALOT of punishment
06:06:38  <Stormscape> crumbs, spilled drinks, me getting mad and slamming my fists
06:06:41  <Stormscape> getting thrown around
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06:06:46  <Stormscape> even was taken apart twie
06:06:49  <Stormscape> twice
06:06:50  <grimrc1> heh
06:06:53  <Stormscape> still works
06:07:04  <Stormscape> oh wait
06:07:13  <Stormscape> the scroll wheel on the left side of the keyboard doesn't work anymore
06:07:18  <Stormscape> not after that coke got spilled there
06:07:51  <grimrc1> strange - you would think it'd be ok when it dries up
06:07:52  <Stormscape> I've been considering getting the Logitech G15, mainly cause Logitech plays nice in Linux
06:08:42  <Stormscape> and cause I still use Windows for gaming
06:08:54  <Stormscape> hmmm
06:09:11  <Stormscape> should I move all the data off that drive and repartition it as a Linux file system
06:09:44  <Stormscape> that would involve booting to Windows though
06:09:59  <Stormscape> cause I'm too lazy to set good umasks on my ntfs mounts
06:10:13  <grimrc1> maybe it's a BIOS update:
06:10:49  <grimrc1> I basically don't use Windows any more
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06:12:15  <Stormscape> there
06:12:20  <Stormscape> I'm fixing the permissions
06:12:26  <Stormscape> or not
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06:12:29  <Stormscape> it stalled
06:12:32  <Stormscape> and failed
06:12:42  <grimrc1> you have to change the way it's mounted I think]
06:12:46  <grimrc1> annoyingly
06:13:19  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6181 /trunk/ (aircraft_gui.c roadveh_gui.c ship_gui.c train_gui.c): -Fix r6161: The list of vehicles using a certain station got a bit of display code mixed up with the list of vehicles with shared orders (nycom)
06:13:22  <grimrc1> man fstab
06:13:30  <grimrc1> or man mount
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06:15:08  <Stormscape> hmmm
06:15:16  <Stormscape> this will be vastly easier if I go to Windows
06:15:44  <Stormscape> or I can just nuke the partition, it's not like I really want 55gb of Doctor Who anyways
06:15:51  <grimrc1> hehe
06:16:09  <Stormscape> there's just one folder I need to backup
06:16:16  <Stormscape> my Windows LimeWire shared
06:16:36  <Stormscape> hmmm
06:16:40  <Stormscape> decisions decisions
06:16:45  <Stormscape> which file system to put on the drive
06:16:55  <Stormscape> and why didn't I make /home its own partition
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06:18:36  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6182 /trunk/ship_gui.c: -Code cleanup: replaced one (1 << 8) with SHARE_FLAG (missed in r6167)
06:19:42  <grimrc1> I'm off; cya Stormscape
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06:21:51  <CIA-2> tron * r6183 /trunk/ (6 files): Move GetDrawStringPlayerColor() out of gfx.[ch]
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06:35:26  * roboboy homework
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06:48:03  <Stormscape> According to a study, if Red Hat 7.1 had been developed by conventional proprietary means, it would have cost about 1.08 billion dollars to develop in the United States.
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07:33:54  <CIA-2> tron * r6184 /trunk/ (gfx.c gfx.h main_gui.c rail_gui.c smallmap_gui.c train_gui.c): Remove the unused (because it was NULL in all callers) second parameter of FillDrawPixelInfo() and simplify some expressions
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08:01:43  <MeusH> hi
08:15:40  <Stormscape> Hi
08:15:51  <MeusH> !seen Darkvater
08:15:52  <_42_> MeusH, Darkvater ( was last seen quitting #openttd 14 hours 23 minutes ago (27.08. 17:52) stating "Quit: leaving" after spending 49 minutes there.
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08:44:25  <CIA-2> miham * r6185 /trunk/lang/ (danish.txt french.txt italian.txt):
08:44:25  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-28 10:43:48
08:44:25  <CIA-2> danish - 36 fixed, 12 changed by trenskow (48)
08:44:25  <CIA-2> french - 2 changed by glx (2)
08:44:26  <CIA-2> italian - 36 fixed, 5 changed by sidew (41)
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09:13:35  <CIA-2> rubidium * r6186 /trunk/ (settings.c settings.h settings_gui.c):
09:13:35  <CIA-2> -Fix [FS#309]: add an override system to the dynamically determined size of steps for numeric patch settings in the 'Configure patches' GUI.
09:13:35  <CIA-2> The size of these steps normally about (max - min) / 50, which results in steps of 100 000 years for the start year, end year, network restart year and the year of introduction of coloured newspapers.
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09:21:22  <CIA-2> truelight * r6187 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added iconv detection
09:23:43  <Tron_> !seen alltaken
09:23:44  <_42_> Tron_, Alltaken ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 day 22 hours 37 minutes ago (26.08. 10:46) stating "Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]" after spending 1 hour 55 minutes there.
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09:27:19  <CIA-2> truelight * r6188 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (config.lib configure): [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added --enable-translator, to show todo items for translators
09:33:34  <CIA-2> truelight * r6189 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added support to configure an other midi-player
09:37:30  <CIA-2> truelight * r6190 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( configure): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: also trigger a reconfig if any of the configure files changed (tnx Rubidium)
09:44:23  <CIA-2> truelight * r6191 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added --disable-assert, to disable.. asserts ;)
09:47:10  <CIA-2> truelight * r6192 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (config.lib configure): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: in case by accident an enter comes up in the configure line, rewrite it to nothing
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09:52:43  <JohnUK89> Morning :)
09:55:01  <CIA-2> truelight * r6193 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( config.lib configure):
09:55:01  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Add: added --revision to override revision
09:55:01  <CIA-2> -Add: added check for a file called 'version', and use the version as revision from there, if exists
09:55:01  <CIA-2> -Add: added big fat warning if you override revision manually. This is rarely the way to go.
10:05:43  <CIA-2> truelight * r6194 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib:
10:05:43  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: somehow if you change the content of a file you are executing via bash, weird things start to happen.
10:05:43  <CIA-2>  When we remove the file and replace it with an other, it seems okay.
10:05:43  <CIA-2>  Tnx Rubidium for noticing this bug.
10:06:15  <Patrick`> yes, behaviour there is implementation defined
10:06:40  <Patrick`> for example, catting a file into a sed/sort/uniq/rev/etc pipleline then back into itself
10:07:02  <Patrick`> I've personally seen files not get wiped out by that but usually it doesn't work
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10:07:19  <TrueLight> that I know yes :)
10:07:23  <TrueLight> but this was pretty unexpected
10:07:39  <TrueLight> it then stats to execute random pieces of the new file
10:07:42  <TrueLight> just, random
10:07:57  <Patrick`> good god
10:08:23  <Patrick`> you were actually editing the self-file from within itself?
10:08:29  <Patrick`> crazy.
10:08:53  <TrueLight> no, a bash script called a configure file
10:09:00  <TrueLight> that rewrote the bash script, so it could be repeated again
10:09:12  <TrueLight> I just assumed it would release the bash script
10:09:14  <TrueLight> it didn't
10:09:22  <Patrick`> aah
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10:14:41  <CIA-2> rubidium * r6195 /trunk/ (7 files): -Codechange: do not use '//' in '/* ... */' style comments and '/*' or '*/' in '//' style comments.
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10:37:33  <Patrick`> 'specially schlocktoberfest
10:37:38  <MaulingMonkey> If I saved all the webcomics I read to disk, I'd probably be bigger than my porn collection.
10:37:52  <Patrick`> you must have a very small libido.
10:37:56  <Patrick`>
10:37:58  <Patrick`> oops
10:38:00  <Patrick`> html
10:38:01  <Patrick`> go nuts
10:38:24  <MaulingMonkey> my "current reading list" is about 2 screen heights of bookmarks
10:38:39  <Patrick`> I keep them like that so I can keep my tabbing sharp
10:38:49  <Patrick`> I read it in the mornings before shower/coffee
10:39:24  <MaulingMonkey> I've been planning to organize mine sometime, I just don't have the time to do it though :S
10:39:36  <Patrick`> I barely organise them
10:39:44  <smeding> heh
10:39:49  <Patrick`> basically I tab up the first 2 columns every morning and the third one every sunday
10:39:52  <smeding> i have Google Reader do it for me
10:40:03  <Patrick`> oh, and if you've not read 1/0
10:40:05  <Patrick`> do it NOW
10:40:10  <Patrick`> --> chorez
10:40:47  <MaulingMonkey> No no, I mean, I keep boomarking so quickly that I ocassionally loose updating webcomics in the pile.
10:40:54  <MaulingMonkey> And end up rediscovering them weeks or months later.
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10:42:43  <MeusH> !seen Darkvater
10:42:45  <_42_> MeusH, Darkvater ( was last seen quitting #openttd 16 hours 50 minutes ago (27.08. 17:52) stating "Quit: leaving" after spending 49 minutes there.
10:44:30  <smeding> !seen smeding
10:44:31  <_42_> smeding, do I look like a mirror? ^_^
10:44:36  <smeding> (and yes, i'm bored)
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11:39:36  <Celestar> ...
11:39:58  <Celestar> having #openttd on another server than all my other channels is not helpful
11:40:00  <Celestar> hi btw :)
11:40:37  <ln-> hi
11:41:46  <Celestar> who miscoded vim :-/
11:41:48  <Patrick`> you took a while.
11:42:07  <Sacro> LOL
11:42:54  <smeding> hi.
11:43:05  <Celestar> if (mch_stat((char *)fname, &st_old) == 0 && getuid() && !(st_old.st_uid == getuid() ? (st_old.st_mode & 0200) : (st_old.st_gid == getgid() ? (st_old.st_mode & 0020) : (st_old.st_mode & 0002))))
11:43:11  <Celestar> I mean this is totally stupid
11:43:14  <Patrick`> jesus
11:43:40  <Celestar> one MIGHT think that if (access(fname, W_OK)) would do it :S
11:43:44  <Celestar> and it might ACTUALLY WORK
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11:46:02  <smeding> holy crap.
11:46:15  <Tefad> who is that crazy coder
11:47:34  <Celestar> because that code will not work
11:47:44  <Celestar> for example if you have NFSv4
11:47:49  <Celestar> or if you have POSIX ACLs
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11:49:13  <Sacro> what does Need for speed have to do with it?
11:49:22  <Celestar> uh huh :P
11:49:36  <smeding> ;p
11:49:44  <JohnUK89> Lol
11:50:04  <Sacro> i think ive finished reading the internet :(
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11:50:12  <smeding> ughhh
11:50:16  <JohnUK89> Sacro: impossible :)
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11:50:20  <smeding> school tomorrow
11:50:23  * smeding cries
11:50:35  <JohnUK89> Muahaha I don't go back till the 6th :P
11:50:37  * Sacro loads his rifle
11:50:46  <Sacro> IVE FINISHED :D
11:50:56  * Sacro sits and plays MiniIN
11:51:16  * JohnUK89 sits and plays 32bpp, because it plays ball with compiz :P
11:51:24  <Zaviori> You forgot to shoot it :s
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11:51:41  <Sacro> Zaviori: im saving myself...
11:52:03  <JohnUK89> Flippin eck it takes 9 hops to get out of T-Mobile's network :S
11:52:12  <JohnUK89> No wonder I lag so bad
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11:52:48  <Tefad> better than when i had BPL
11:52:54  <JohnUK89> BPL?
11:52:57  <Tefad> took me 15hops just to get to an external IP
11:53:02  <JohnUK89> Bloody ell
11:53:03  <Tefad> and my friend had 30hops!
11:53:10  <Zaviori> (:
11:53:22  <Tefad> my latency was about 50ms to the external IP, his was about 100ms
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11:53:30  <JohnUK89> I'm at 20 hops to a server in London
11:53:33  <JohnUK89> 21...
11:53:34  <Tefad> not bad really, considering what the technology is
11:54:04  <JohnUK89> My latency to an external IP is about 400ms...
11:54:08  <JohnUK89> lol
11:54:12  <Tefad> this implementation of BPL basically hops 802.11 over the consumer powerline infrastructure
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11:54:33  <JohnUK89> Tefad: aah, Broadband over Power Lines
11:54:37  <Tefad> a repeater every 300m basically (about 1/2 mile)
11:54:46  <JohnUK89> Didn't quite figure what the acronym was
11:55:02  <Tefad> i don't think the signal actually travels along the lines
11:55:12  <Tefad> but between them (between the poles)
11:55:22  <JohnUK89> Yeah
11:55:39  <Tefad> decent coverage on mountainous terrain
11:55:46  <JohnUK89> I'll be getting cable soon, so heh ^_^
11:56:05  <Tefad> initial test area was 10km north of the substation, followed by another 10km south
11:56:21  <Tefad> (basically a radius)
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11:57:10  <JohnUK89> Yeah
11:57:33  <JohnUK89> Sounds like a good plan, but the leccy companies over here couldn't afford it
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11:58:46  <JohnUK89> All those repeaters must be expensive (:
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12:00:40  <Tefad> consumer level they're about 0 retail
12:00:51  <Tefad> they have ruggedized units.
12:00:55  <JohnUK89> Yeah
12:01:19  <Tefad> and with most units, there must be a giant power transformer next to it (lovely for RF signals eh?.. but 60Hz is quite different from 2.4GHz)
12:01:20  <JohnUK89> And if you think about how many power cables we have...entire country connected lol
12:01:43  <Tefad> there was an instance of a noisy capacitor bank screwing things up
12:01:50  <Tefad> took them two months to figure that one out
12:01:58  <JohnUK89> Oooh
12:02:19  <Patrick`> I hope you're not one of those freakin' weirdos who can only talk about the "caps" on their motherboard
12:02:23  <Tefad> (most loads are inductive.. the banks help balance out the power)
12:02:32  <JohnUK89> Patrick`: ?
12:02:37  <Tefad> Patrick`: does that help?
12:02:41  <Patrick`> don't get me started
12:03:03  <Tefad> i've taken an electronic circuits class and have been educated in three phase power
12:03:05  <Patrick`> these people convinced that by bloody desoldering factory-install p-recision components they can somehow overclock more
12:03:08  <Patrick`> or some bullshit like that
12:03:41  <JohnUK89> Patrick`: lmao
12:03:52  <Tefad> no, i'm talking about industrial sized capacitors for kilovoltage lines
12:03:57  <Patrick`> good, good.
12:04:14  <Tefad> they were probably just old. made RFI
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12:04:36  <Celestar> hmpf
12:04:48  * Celestar goes sending reports to the vim guys
12:04:56  <Patrick`> wotnow
12:04:57  <Tefad> er?
12:05:01  <Tefad> you broke vim?
12:05:19  <Celestar> no
12:05:23  <Celestar> THEY broke vim
12:05:25  <JohnUK89> vim broke you?
12:05:32  <Celestar> 13:43 < Celestar> if (mch_stat((char *)fname, &st_old) == 0 && getuid() && !(st_old.st_uid == getuid() ? (st_old.st_mode & 0200) : (st_old.st_gid == getgid() ? (st_old.st_mode & 0020) : (st_old.st_mode & 0002))))
12:06:00  <Tefad> that is vim code?
12:06:09  <Tefad> i thought you were pasting ottd code
12:06:44  <Tefad> inline ifs inside a condition is just asking for it.
12:07:42  <Celestar> Tefad: that is vim code
12:07:48  <Celestar> and it is faulty vim code
12:07:49  <Tefad> AAAH!!
12:08:09  <Celestar> it TRIES to find out whether I may write to fname
12:08:11  <Tefad> though when looking at a kernel driver, i found my fair share of gotos
12:09:41  <Patrick`> like, wtf?
12:09:47  <Patrick`> isn't there some simple syscall for that
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12:10:08  <Patrick`> if (can_i_write_to(fname)) or something
12:10:10  <Tefad> Patrick`: if you've been in here for a while, scroll up ; )
12:10:31  <Tefad> access(fname, .._OK) or something
12:10:35  <Patrick`> aye
12:10:37  <Patrick`> see it
12:10:46  <Tefad> if (access(fname, W_OK))
12:11:07  <Tefad> eh decent memory for not dealing much with file i/o
12:11:37  <Tefad> (i tend to use ANSI.. and even then mostly stdin/out via scanf printf
12:12:13  <Tefad> and, i use care when reading strings.. scanf("%31s", pointer_to_32_bytes);
12:12:16  <Tefad> )
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12:24:30  <Celestar> Patrick`: there IS a simple call
12:24:33  <Celestar> as Tefad said
12:24:45  * Celestar is just send a bug report/fix to the vim guys
12:24:45  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-239-202.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:25:32  <Tron_> well, access() (and every other means to test if writing is possible, except trying it) has a race condition
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12:25:49  <Celestar> well that check up there is stupid as fuck
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12:27:19  <AsterixMG> hi all
12:28:35  <AsterixMG> anyone around that can tell me a bit about the last 3000 or so svn-revisions? :P
12:28:40  <Celestar> hi AsterixMG
12:28:59  <AsterixMG> hi Celestar
12:29:32  <AsterixMG> what happened to cargo-packets? are they still alive?
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12:33:44  <Patrick`> personally I think that cargo should have information about the source *industry*
12:33:55  <Patrick`> so that payment is independant of where it was picked up by a station
12:34:33  <AsterixMG> Patrick`, i wanted to know if someone still works on cargopackets at all :)
12:34:33  <Patrick`> I remember the first time I laddered a station halfway across the map to get a 1-tile £100k journey
12:34:37  <Patrick`> hmm
12:34:46  <Patrick`> I have heard people rumbling about it
12:34:49  <Patrick`> anyway, gotta go
12:35:45  <AsterixMG> hmm, last change 5 months ago... doesn't seem like its worked on
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12:38:33  <JohnUK89> Yay dusl screen OTTD again! :P
12:38:36  <JohnUK89> dual*
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12:41:46  <AsterixMG> hi Bjarni
12:42:09  <lws1984> morning Bjarni
12:42:35  <Bjarni> hi people
12:42:50  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: afternoon
12:43:01  <ln-> hi Bjarni person
12:43:25  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, can you tell me in short the major changes in the last 3000 or so svn-revisions? i'm too lazy to read them all :P
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12:44:07  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: no :p
12:44:21  <Bjarni> I'm too lazy to read all of those as well
12:44:39  <AsterixMG> damn, i thought i found a victim ;)
12:45:00  <Bjarni> try to fool somebody else to fool into doing a boring task for you :p
12:45:19  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: you are a fool. Did you really think that you could fool me???
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12:45:27  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, i thought you might know them without looking them up :)
12:45:35  <Bjarni> ahh
12:45:40  <Bjarni> well
12:45:46  <AsterixMG> or don't you develop at the moment?
12:46:04  <Bjarni> 100 revisions ago is ages ago in my development
12:46:10  <AsterixMG> lol
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12:46:40  <AsterixMG> well, i've seen that pbs is gone and some new pathfinder was added
12:46:57  <Bjarni> and a new map generator
12:47:09  <JohnUK89> The new map generator rocks :)
12:47:17  <ln-> Bjarni: i think mr. blackis is now in possession of a patch that uses Quartz for drawing the game window...
12:47:20  <Bjarni> and like 2500+ other commits
12:47:21  <AsterixMG> do you know what happened to cargo-packets?
12:47:29  <Bjarni> yeah
12:47:29  <AsterixMG> (branch)
12:47:30  <Bjarni> nothing
12:48:08  <Bjarni> ln-: nice. So there is a chance that we will get such a working patch within a week or so?
12:48:09  <AsterixMG> is it still considered or to be continued some time?
12:48:16  <Bjarni> yes
12:48:31  <Bjarni> the problem is that nobody dared to work on it or had time to do so
12:48:33  <Bjarni> or both
12:48:43  <AsterixMG> ah, ok :)
12:48:57  <Bjarni> Celestar worked on it and he is really out of time or something like that
12:49:14  <Celestar> I worked on what? :)
12:49:17  <AsterixMG> well, i was thinking about updating the stats-patch, which is really outdated now, too :)
12:49:25  <Bjarni> Celestar: cargo packages
12:49:30  <AsterixMG> Celestar, cargo-packets
12:49:33  <Bjarni> I think you did something to it ages ago
12:49:33  <ln-> Bjarni: at the time when i went to sleep last night, blackis said the patch is working ok in a window, and he's looking at some fullscreen issues... so it is quite possible that the patch is ready soon.
12:50:01  <Celestar> I did
12:50:11  <Celestar> I'll start over sometime
12:50:22  <Bjarni> ln-: nice. It reminds me of when I wanted to try to optimise fullscreen and the code worked way faster, but all I saw was a completely white screen
12:50:29  <Bjarni> no mouse pointer or anything
12:50:37  <Bjarni> I would call that a full screen issue ;)
12:50:41  <AsterixMG> Celestar, good to know its not completely gone :)
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12:51:14  <Bjarni> Celestar: so how is real life? Is it worth the time you spent on it?
12:51:16  <Bjarni> :)
12:51:22  <Celestar> yes and no
12:51:30  <Celestar> Tron_: what's wrong with access() ?
12:51:43  <Tron_> it imposes a race condition
12:52:12  <Tron_> in the time the check was done and the real open() happens, the permissions can change
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12:52:40  <Tron_> +between
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12:54:17  <Celestar> BAAAAHHHHH
12:54:28  <Celestar> users are FUCKING stupid
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12:54:40  <Bjarni> I learned that years ago
12:54:59  <AsterixMG> that will never change ;)
12:55:17  <Bjarni> and two years of developing OpenTTD made me ready for everything... or so I thought, because then AlexFili showed up
12:55:24  <AsterixMG> but computers aren't any better :P
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12:56:13  <Triffid_Hunter> AsterixMG: heh at least computers have an excuse.. they're only designed to do exactly as they're told, no more, no less.
12:56:15  <ln-> who's AlexFili?
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12:57:16  <Celestar> Tron_: ok but the current code here fails always for any users
12:57:18  <Bjarni> ln-: that's the guy, who installed SDL and could not get it to work. He messed with it for two hours before he even considered that he should move the header files in the precompiled SDL he downloaded
12:57:37  <CIA-2> miham * r6197 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt portuguese.txt):
12:57:37  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-28 14:57:10
12:57:37  <CIA-2> american - 10 fixed, 12 changed by WhiteRabbit (22)
12:57:37  <CIA-2> portuguese - 4 changed by izhirahider (4)
12:57:42  <Tron_> Celestar: why not just try to open()?
12:57:57  <Tron_> Celestar: that's the only safe way to know if it succeeds
12:58:02  <Bjarni> and he tried to run OpenTTD on 4 mb RAM and... I forgot the CPU, but if I recall correctly, it was questionable if TT could run on it
12:58:23  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
12:58:25  <AsterixMG> hmm, i've just seen my last stats-patch is r2709 :)
12:58:33  <Celestar> Tron_: offical method is to use access :)
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12:58:36  <Belugas> 'moring all
12:58:43  <Bjarni> hi Belugas
12:58:44  <Tron_> Celestar: official by whom?
12:59:09  <Celestar> ME >:)
12:59:13  <Tron_>      The access() system call is a potential security hole due to race condi-
12:59:13  <Tron_>      tions and should never be used. [...]
12:59:23  <AsterixMG> hi Belugas
13:01:35  <Celestar> Tron_: this is not in my access syscall
13:02:27  <Celestar> the problem is that uid and gid do not mean anything
13:03:18  <Tron_> Celestar: it's in the BSD access manpage of course (:
13:03:28  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:03:32  <Celestar> Tron_: I noticed
13:03:38  <Tron_> if uid and gid don't mean anything anyway then using access() achieves nothing
13:03:45  <Tron_> just open() the file
13:03:56  <Tron_> if it succeeds: good, use this descriptor
13:04:04  <Tron_> if it fails: there you got your error
13:04:55  <Celestar> because all the files are mapped to uid:gid
13:04:59  <Celestar> of nobody
13:05:11  <Tron_> ACL?
13:05:16  <Celestar> NFS4
13:05:18  <Celestar> with kerberos
13:05:32  <Tron_> use open(), everything else will fail
13:05:46  *** Darkvater [] has joined #openttd
13:05:48  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
13:05:52  <Celestar> I wonder why the guys just don't open the file, and then see whether it worked :S
13:06:06  <Celestar> instead of this stupid crap up there
13:06:08  <Tron_> that's exactly what i'm telling over and over
13:06:23  <Celestar> yeah yeah
13:06:40  <Celestar> I'm waiting for my mailing list subscription to become active
13:06:57  <Tron_> <years later>
13:07:20  * Sacro looks at cargo-packets
13:07:25  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
13:07:44  <JohnUK89> Bah...stupid T-Mobile
13:07:55  <Darkvater> hiya
13:08:04  <Celestar> hi Darkvater
13:08:12  <JohnUK89> Darkvater: ello :)
13:12:02  <AsterixMG> hi Darkvater
13:12:09  <Darkvater> hi
13:13:17  <MeusH> hi Darkvater
13:13:35  <Celestar> hm
13:13:43  <MeusH> Darkvater,
13:14:10  <Celestar> when I open the file as "write" will it fail immediately if I don't have write permissions or will it fail when the first write operation actually takes place?
13:14:18  <Darkvater> yeah, seen the mail
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13:35:07  <glx> JohnUK89: very stable connection today ;)
13:35:16  <JohnUK89> glx: tell me bout it :-\
13:36:24  <JohnUK89> Does anyone know if there's a way to use custom resolutions under Xorg 7?
13:36:40  <JohnUK89> ie ones that aren't normally in xorg.conf
13:36:58  <JohnUK89> (And is possible ones not in the DDC specs either)
13:37:34  <JohnUK89> if*
13:44:01  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-239-202.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:44:19  <JohnUK89> Sacro: ello :)
13:45:09  <JohnUK89> Sacro: you any good with X configs?
13:45:33  <Sacro> JohnUK89: kinda
13:46:33  <JohnUK89> Sacro: I've got Xinerama working, and I was was wondering it I could use 1200x900 on my main match the height (in pixels) of my other monitor (1440x900)
13:47:33  <JohnUK89> I tried editing xorg.conf to change the resolution to that, but it gets set at 1024x768
13:48:35  <JohnUK89> Yet if I try something completely stupid like 2048x1536 (which my monitor SHOULDN'T support) it works...
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13:51:05  <wonea> is anyone having trouble installing grf files in mac os x?  Not showing up in the game
13:51:33  <JohnUK89> wonea: have you updated openttd.cfg to show the grfs?
13:51:52  <Sacro> JohnUK89: not sure and i have to go out, sorry
13:51:57  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-239-202.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:51:58  <lws1984> JohnUK89: you stole my line!
13:52:05  <JohnUK89> lws1984: hehe
13:52:29  <wonea> JohnUK89:  didn't realise I had todo that!
13:52:38  <lws1984> wonea: good luck
13:52:49  <JohnUK89> wonea: anything more than the original data files you do
13:53:15  <JohnUK89> You need to add a [newgrf] section to openttd.cfg, and have the names of the grf files in that section
13:53:24  *** ChrisM87___ [] has joined #openttd
13:53:38  <wonea> oh, I thought openttd would be clever, and just scan the directory
13:53:39  * JohnUK89 will brb, gonna grab a plum from the tree
13:53:46  <JohnUK89> wonea: nope lol
13:53:53  <wonea> :-)
13:54:01  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Quit: Smeely smeely Singaporekid!]
13:54:49  <MeusH> I'm gonna check what's wrong with at ubuntu -___-
13:54:52  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
13:55:08  <wonea> I'll be glad when openttd has its own data files, then I can get my friends to play it
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13:57:54  <Bjarni> bbl
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14:04:19  *** Dmitry [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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14:07:42  <JohnUK89> Back but not lol got packing to do
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14:10:56  *** JohnUK89 is now known as JohnUK89|Packing
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14:22:53  <CIA-2> truelight * r6198 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: escape the / in grep, else mingw fails weirdly
14:26:08  *** real [] has joined #openttd
14:26:32  <real> hi
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14:35:42  <Trenskow> someone please delete task #217
14:35:50  <Trenskow> it's the same as 213
14:35:56  <Trenskow> but #213 is correct
14:36:02  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
14:36:04  <hylje> :E
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14:39:05  <CIA-2> truelight * r6199 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: static lib-detection was broken (glx)
14:40:25  <TrueLight> Trenskow: then why did you made 2 of them in the first place? :P
14:40:37  <SpComb> Logs:
14:40:37  <Bjarni> !logs
14:40:42  <Trenskow> TrueLight, I was young and naive
14:41:32  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:41:37  <Trenskow> silly question of the day...
14:41:50  <Trenskow> anyone knows a good place to buy mens belts ?
14:42:10  <Trenskow> Bjarni, mornings
14:42:11  <Bjarni> o_O
14:42:43  <Bjarni> Trenskow: you ask a channel full of people from other countries where to buy belts near you???
14:43:07  <Tefad> maybe he means online? or a major retail store?
14:43:12  <Trenskow> Bjarni, I though people, and you, could figure I was talking about a netstore
14:43:23  <Trenskow> :)
14:43:27  <real> look at ;) they are selling skirts without pictures, maybe they also have belts ;)
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14:43:38  <Trenskow> real, thx
14:43:47  <Trenskow>
14:43:57  <Bjarni> Trenskow: actually.... I have no idea where to buy belts
14:44:01  <Bjarni> online
14:44:15  <Trenskow> i tried ebay, but it's fake fake fake fake
14:44:29  <Trenskow> noone sells armani belt for .99
14:44:45  <Bjarni> Trenskow: ever walked outside into the real world
14:44:47  <Bjarni> ?
14:44:53  <Bjarni> I bet there are shops near you
14:45:05  <Trenskow> did it once. it wasn't a happy experience
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14:45:50  <Bjarni> nobody told you to walk all the way to Voldsmose :P
14:45:57  <Trenskow> Bjarni, hehe
14:45:58  <Trenskow> :D
14:46:05  <Patrick`> mmm... meese
14:46:11  <MeusH> hello
14:46:12  <Trenskow> it's only about 1 km from here
14:46:30  <Trenskow> for all the rest of you (Voldsmose is Denmarks biggest ghetto)
14:46:33  * Bjarni was not thinking about distance
14:46:34  <MeusH> !seen sacro
14:46:36  <_42_> MeusH, Sacro (~ben@adsl-213-249-239-202.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen quitting #openttd 54 minutes ago (28.08. 13:51) stating "Remote host closed the connection" after spending 7 minutes there.
14:46:40  <MeusH> z?o
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14:50:05  <ln-> Bjarni: status report from mr. blackis: the windowed mode is now drawn with Quartz, but it is currently slower than the deprecated implementation. the fullscreen drawing has not been touched yet, it works like before.
14:51:01  <Bjarni> I think it's mainly (only?) window mode that got the deprecated issue
14:51:22  *** stillunknown [] has quit []
14:51:28  <Bjarni> but I haven't checked every single function
14:52:31  <CIA-2> truelight * r6200 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( config.lib configure): [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: don't lock config.cache when reconfiguring
14:53:22  <ln-> Bjarni: according to blackis, making the fullscreen use Quartz too would have the advantage of being able to switch away from it with apple+tab.
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14:54:33  <ln-> Bjarni: he says that after his exam on wednesday he could look at fullscreen mode and optimizing.
14:54:59  <Bjarni> :D
14:55:03  <Darkvater> !seen TrueLight
14:55:04  <_42_> Darkvater, if you can't see TrueLight here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
14:55:23  <Darkvater> OSX isn't using quartz for FS?
14:55:55  <Bjarni> not yet, but hopefully soon
14:56:17  <Darkvater> what is it using? SDL?
14:56:33  <Bjarni> no no no
14:56:42  <Bjarni> SDL was the buggy one
14:56:44  <ln-> (17:35:46) blackis: that was the only "mess" there
14:56:45  <ln-> (17:35:58) blackis: windowed mode used QuickDraw, fullscreen mode used CoreGraphics
14:57:36  <Bjarni> I never declared the cocoa video driver perfect, but it is better than SDL
14:57:44  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
14:58:40  <Darkvater> TrueLight: ping/pong
14:59:16  <TrueLight> Darkvater: good, that are 4 less things to type for me
14:59:30  <Darkvater> hehe
14:59:32  <Darkvater> PM?
14:59:38  <TrueLight> Coding Style Change: #endif // COMMENT isn't allowed
14:59:42  <TrueLight> #endif /* COMMENT */ is the way
14:59:49  <TrueLight> (some preprocessors complain about first)
15:00:00  <TrueLight> Darkvater: did I ever refuse you a PM?
15:00:06  <Darkvater> apparently
15:00:09  <Darkvater> 15:05 <Darkvater> morgen :)
15:00:15  <Darkvater> two hours ago
15:00:16  <TrueLight> Nah, I just ignore the one 2 hours ago
15:00:21  <TrueLight> you say goodmorning at 15:00
15:00:24  <TrueLight> that is just asking for an ignore :p
15:00:27  <TrueLight> (hehehehe :p)
15:00:36  <Darkvater> i
15:00:36  <Darkvater> d
15:00:37  <Darkvater> i
15:00:38  <Darkvater> o
15:00:40  <Darkvater> m
15:00:40  <hylje> :E
15:01:08  <Bjarni> beats saying goodmorning now
15:02:13  <Tefad> idiot.
15:02:23  <Bjarni> who?
15:02:34  <Tefad> my anus
15:03:05  <Bjarni> your anus is not into politics?
15:03:22  <Bjarni> then that means you can't be into politics
15:04:36  <Tefad> or bush
15:04:38  <Tefad> which ever
15:04:50  <lws1984> Buhs IS an anus
15:05:06  *** mikk36 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:05:13  <MeusH> youck, having bush in anus isn't nice feeling I think
15:05:21  <Born_Acorn> He anus would need to be into politics to be an idiot. :p
15:05:24  <MeusH> there are many worms on bush
15:05:37  <hylje>,-95.677068&sspn=63.215425,110.039063&q=mianus&ie=UTF8&cid=37062500,-95677068,12660028553279392408&li=lmd&z=14&ll=41.033787,-73.630114&spn=0.059953,0.10746&om=1&iwloc=A
15:05:41  <hylje> speaking of anuses
15:05:47  *** mikk36 [] has joined #openttd
15:05:51  <Born_Acorn> :O
15:06:12  <Bjarni> 	<Born_Acorn>	He anus would need to be into politics to be an idiot. :p <-- moron. You can't even make up your mind. Idiot is Greek for a person, who don't care for politics
15:06:26  <Born_Acorn> I don't speak Greek. :p
15:06:39  <Bjarni> you just do it?
15:06:40  *** Dred_furst` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:06:53  <Born_Acorn> I speak le Anglais.
15:07:04  * lws1984 speaks Geek
15:07:34  * Bjarni reminds lws1984 that leet is banned in this channel
15:07:50  <MeusH> ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ????
15:08:02  * Bjarni slaps MeusH
15:08:07  <lws1984> not leet, Geek! Geek is a language spoken by intelligent people who know that leet is evil.
15:08:10  * MeusH slaps greek chars
15:08:12  <hylje> AAAAAA A AAAA AAAA!
15:08:17  <Bjarni> speak decent in here
15:08:19  <Born_Acorn> It's like the sixties all over again!
15:08:30  * lws1984 reminds hylje that AAAAAAAAAAAAA is banned in this channel
15:08:46  <hylje> that wasnt AAAAAAAAAAAAA, but AAAAAAAAA!
15:08:48  * Bjarni adds a penalty point to hylje
15:08:54  <MeusH> ???r??
15:08:57  *** hylje is now known as AAAAA
15:09:17  <lws1984> ACK!
15:09:23  *** AAAAA was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [AAA AAAAAA AAA AAAA AAAA AAAA]
15:09:24  <Born_Acorn> AAAAA!
15:09:27  *** Neonox [] has joined #openttd
15:09:28  <lws1984> Penalty, Bjarni?
15:09:30  *** AAAAA [hylje@] has joined #openttd
15:09:31  * MeusH adds three penatly points to AAAAA (don't cheat hylje)
15:09:33  <lws1984> aha, there it IS AGAIN!
15:09:36  <AAAAA> AAAA?
15:09:40  <lws1984> ACK
15:09:47  <lws1984> SYN?
15:09:49  *** MeusH [] has left #openttd [bye - leave]
15:09:50  <AAAAA> MeusH: interesting
15:09:52  <Born_Acorn> yikes.
15:09:55  <SpComb> hmm
15:09:57  <real> wtf?
15:10:02  *** AAAAA is now known as hylje
15:10:05  <Born_Acorn> All I'm seeing is AAAAAA.
15:10:17  <SpComb> Born_Acorn: your screen res is too small
15:10:21  <Born_Acorn> Unless thats the point, in which all I;m seeing is BNNNNN
15:10:24  <SpComb> well, you shouldn
15:10:36  <Patrick`> I will never regret my purchase of this duck-shaped codpeice
15:10:49  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by Bjarni
15:10:59  <Born_Acorn> :o
15:11:09  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
15:11:10  <MeusH> A
15:11:17  *** MeusH was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [don't!]
15:11:21  <JohnUK89|Packing> :o
15:11:24  <JohnUK89|Packing> lol
15:11:25  <Patrick`> that doesn't make sense
15:11:29  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
15:11:30  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by Bjarni
15:11:30  <Patrick`> how did he join if he was +b
15:11:35  <SpComb> Patrick`: ~
15:11:35  <Patrick`> you missed the tilde
15:11:38  <Patrick`> zing
15:11:41  <Bjarni> I banned him incorrectly
15:11:47  <Patrick`> stupid brain-diff
15:11:54  <SpComb> vdiff
15:12:09  <Bjarni> MeusH: if you wants to be unbanned, then tell me
15:12:13  <Bjarni> in THIS channel
15:12:23  <Patrick`> you cruel magnificent bastard
15:12:34  <Born_Acorn> Lets ask MeusH embarassing questions to which we take his silence as a yes!
15:12:43  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [there, now you can talk to each other ^_^]
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15:12:44  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
15:12:48  <hylje> s/[B-Za-z0-9]/A/g
15:12:56  <Tefad> wtf
15:12:56  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Quit: stillunknown]
15:12:57  <Darkvater> damn you autojoining bjarnics
15:13:12  *** MeusH [] has left #openttd []
15:13:14  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by Bjarni
15:13:19  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by Bjarni
15:13:19  <Tefad> hylje: you forgot whitespace
15:13:23  <Born_Acorn> heehee
15:13:30  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
15:13:35  <Patrick`> mm,AwhitespaceAisAawesome
15:13:38  <MeusH> sorry Bjarni
15:13:42  <Tefad> hah
15:13:52  <hylje> Tefad: AAAAAAAAA! is meant to be readable.
15:14:34  <JohnUK89|Packing> Grrrrr
15:14:35  *** Tefad was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [don't you start]
15:16:13  <Bjarni> hmm
15:16:21  <Bjarni> Tefad is not coming back
15:16:23  <Bjarni> and the channel died
15:16:31  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: muss wech]
15:16:33  <Bjarni> better idle than stupid
15:16:39  <Patrick`> agreed
15:16:49  <Patrick`> if you can't think of anything worthy to say ...
15:17:00  <JohnUK89|Packing> Don't say anything at all :)
15:17:18  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
15:17:20  <hylje> you implying that AAAAAAAAA! isnt worthy of saying?
15:17:33  <JohnUK89|Packing> Yes :P
15:17:34  <Bjarni> JohnUK89|Packing: how can you be packing and at the computer at the same time?
15:17:39  <Patrick`> GOD YES
15:17:46  *** sayno [] has joined #openttd
15:17:50  <JohnUK89|Packing> Bjarni: I'm packing in the same room the computer is in
15:17:57  *** Zavior [] has joined #openttd
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15:18:32  <Born_Acorn> Its obvious he's actually a spy from a brand spanking new yet to be announced Transport Game project.
15:18:34  <Bjarni> <hylje>	you implying that AAAAAAAAA! isnt worthy of saying?
15:18:34  <Bjarni> <Patrick`>	GOD YES
15:18:34  <Bjarni> -->	sayno ( has joined #openttd
15:18:39  <Bjarni> make up your mind
15:20:01  *** Zavior [] has quit []
15:20:13  <sayno> What Bjarni ?
15:20:18  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20:51  <Bjarni> there was a question, then one said yes and then there was one, who "say no"
15:21:00  <hylje> lol
15:24:20  <UnderBuilder> I think that the ottd screenshots topic needs to be stickified
15:24:40  <Patrick`> it gets bumped so often
15:25:06  <UnderBuilder> but why then the scenarios one was stickified?
15:29:14  <Patrick`> because we needed some to include with the next release
15:29:20  <Patrick`> screenshots is just for fun
15:30:11  <UnderBuilder> and what about the ttdpatch one?
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15:32:45  <Patrick`> what about it?
15:33:21  *** Floppy [] has joined #openttd
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15:35:56  <UnderBuilder> why they have got one and not we?
15:36:48  <real> what is the benefit of buying a tile with the claim symbol? i can use a railroad for that and it is much cheaper? oO
15:37:17  <Patrick`> you can build right on top of it
15:37:21  <Patrick`> like stations and so on
15:37:35  <JohnUK89|Packing> real: it's useful if you want to, say, expand an airport and you don't fancy ripping a load of railway tracks up
15:37:42  <Patrick`> and also town roads can cross fails
15:37:44  <Patrick`> *rails
15:38:15  <JohnUK89|Packing> Patrick`: especially with the new diagonal crossings...
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15:38:51  <Trenskow> school is calling
15:38:51  <Trenskow> cya
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15:39:09  <JohnUK89|Packing> Ouch@school
15:39:34  <JohnUK89|Packing> I feel sorry for the Scots, they go back 2 weeks before us English kids
15:40:48  <real> well, its one click (the dynamite) more but costs like 1/4 of the claim... :\ why is that?
15:41:28  <JohnUK89|Packing> real: because there are disadvantages to just shovilg a rail there
15:41:32  <JohnUK89|Packing> shoving*
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15:42:10  <JohnUK89|Packing> for example you pay maintenance on it :)
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15:43:53  <real> and normally i get money back after using the dynamite on rails ;)
15:43:53  <real> (do i get money back, if i build a station on a claim?)
15:43:53  <real> hmm is it THAT much? ^^
15:44:18  <JohnUK89|Packing> real: no, but buying the land saves a lot of hassle
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15:45:37  <Patrick`> it's for after money stops being an issue
15:45:55  <JohnUK89|Packing> Patrick`: which tends to be pretty quickly :P
15:46:35  <Trenskow> missed the bus
15:46:36  <Trenskow> :S
15:46:50  <JohnUK89|Packing> Trenskow: now that's not very good is it
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15:47:08  <Trenskow> JohnUK89|Packing, no sir :S
15:47:10  <Trenskow> :)
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15:47:54  <JohnUK89|Packing> Trenskow: do you promise to try harder tomorrow?
15:48:10  <Trenskow> JohnUK89|Packing, yes sir
15:48:17  <Trenskow> o_o"
15:48:20  <JohnUK89|Packing> Good lad :)
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15:49:31  <JohnUK89|Packing> Hmm downloading a 469MB file is gonna take me 2 days :-\
15:49:58  <real> it looks like you have a faster connection than me ;)
15:50:12  <JohnUK89|Packing> real: what connection you got?
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15:52:37  <JohnUK89|Packing> I can't wait till the
15:52:44  <real> im on a wlan which is linked to the university... then i have to tunnel my connection because of a very restrictive proxy... there are just too many things that 'might' happen to my connection... and they always do so i always get kicked -.-
15:52:49  <JohnUK89|Packing> I move, and then I get cable :P
15:53:04  <JohnUK89|Packing> real: eww
15:53:50  <JohnUK89|Packing> Aah that's more like it...1 day 19 hours
15:54:10  <real> ^^
15:54:21  <JohnUK89|Packing> Anyway, while that downloads I'll do some packing
15:55:16  <JohnUK89|Packing> ^_^
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15:57:24  <lws1984> :o
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16:00:19  <TrueLight> back!
16:01:57  *** xbddc [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:03:58  <FR^2> Hiho
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16:04:45  <TrueLight> hi
16:05:08  * JohnUK89|Packing abandons download
16:05:15  <JohnUK89|Packing> Connection's too sucky :P
16:05:25  <TrueLight> get a new one :p
16:05:35  <JohnUK89|Packing> I am on the 11th lol
16:05:44  <TrueLight> still GRPS?
16:05:46  <TrueLight> GPRS
16:05:52  <JohnUK89|Packing> At the moment I am yeah
16:06:02  <TrueLight> (yeah yeah, I do pay attention :p)
16:06:15  <JohnUK89|Packing> I move on the 11th, and I'll be getting cable
16:06:58  <Maedhros> has anyone had much of a look at NewHouses support?
16:07:32  <CIA-2> truelight * r6201 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: add some more detail about zlib detection in config.log
16:07:39  <hylje> liek zomg
16:07:55  <TrueLight> hylje: you should really stop doing that :p
16:08:19  <hylje> :<
16:08:30  <TrueLight> pretty annoying, and nobody understands :p
16:08:41  <hylje> why do you think i overuse that
16:08:57  <TrueLight> you really want numbers? :)
16:09:34  <hylje> !calc 54!
16:09:35  <_42_> hylje: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
16:09:52  <hylje> anyway. that would have had some numbers
16:09:58  <JohnUK89|Packing> lmao
16:10:00  <JohnUK89|Packing> Doesn't know factorials :-D
16:10:15  <hylje> more like it couldnt handle something that big
16:10:38  <JohnUK89|Packing> lol
16:10:41  <JohnUK89|Packing> !calc 10!
16:10:43  <_42_> JohnUK89|Packing: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
16:10:47  <JohnUK89|Packing> See?
16:10:53  <hylje> ohh
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16:11:02  <TrueLight> !calc define f(x) { if (x > 1) { return x * f(x - 1) } return(1) } f(54)
16:11:03  <_42_> TrueLight: (standard_in) 2: parse error;Runtime error (func=(main), adr=6): Function f not defined.;
16:11:10  <TrueLight> !calc define f(x) { if (x > 1) { return x * f(x - 1) } return(1) }; f(54)
16:11:13  <_42_> TrueLight: (standard_in) 2: parse error;Runtime error (func=(main), adr=6): Function f not defined.;
16:11:32  <TrueLight> !calc define f(x) { if (x > 1) { return (x * f(x - 1)) } return(1) }; f(54)
16:11:33  <_42_> TrueLight: (standard_in) 2: parse error;Runtime error (func=(main), adr=6): Function f not defined.;
16:11:34  <TrueLight> Oh well
16:11:38  <TrueLight> I suck in bc :)
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16:14:34  <Born_Acorn> Bjarni, Wagon Removal needs a Wagon Addition feature. :p
16:14:40  <Trenskow> JohnUK89|Packing, since you're on gprs, which contry are you living in ?
16:14:46  <Trenskow> here it's freakin expensive
16:14:47  <JohnUK89|Packing> Trenskow: UK
16:14:56  <Born_Acorn> I find all my trains now are smaller than my stations!
16:15:04  <JohnUK89|Packing> And it would be expensive...but *taps nose* ;-)
16:15:12  <Trenskow> here it's about 1 pound per mb (DK)
16:15:14  <Trenskow> ahh
16:15:16  <Trenskow> i see ;)
16:15:42  <real>    54! = 230,843,697,339,241,380,472,092,742,683,027,581,083,278,564,571,
16:15:42  <real>              807,941,132,288,000,000,000,000
16:15:57  <real> @ TrueLight
16:16:15  <JohnUK89|Packing> lmao
16:16:37  <Patrick`> !calc 54!
16:16:37  <_42_> Patrick`: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
16:18:22  <JohnUK89|Packing> Let's go the long way
16:19:25  <Patrick`> !calc 1*2*3*4*5*6*7*8*9*10*11*12*13*14*15*16*17*18*19*20*21*22*23*24*25*26*27*28*29*30*31*32*33*34*35*36*37*38*39*40*41*42*43*44*45*46*47*48*49*50*51*52*53*54
16:19:27  <_42_> Patrick`: 230843697339241380472092742683027581083278564571807941132288000000000000;
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16:20:23  <JohnUK89|Packing> Patrick`: the 1* was redundant :-D
16:20:31  <Patrick`> I did it programatically
16:20:35  <Patrick`> (sue me)
16:20:39  <Patrick`> more effort to remove it
16:20:41  <JohnUK89|Packing> Nah lol
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16:35:27  <real> hooray @ wireless :)
16:36:32  <TrueLight> t
16:36:35  <TrueLight> stupid t
16:36:36  <TrueLight> I hate t
16:37:06  <real> why? because its too near to the "r"?
16:37:15  <Kjetil> *ponders why nxclient require admin privs to install*
16:37:32  <Patrick`> because it does bizzare packet stuff
16:37:46  <Patrick`> oh, install
16:37:51  <TrueLight> Kjetil: I believe it doesn't... just a 'nx' user
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16:38:13  <hylje> installing stuff generally needs admin
16:38:16  <TrueLight> and it needs /usr/NX :)
16:38:17  <Wolf01> hi
16:38:38  <TrueLight> hylje: mostly, yes :) but NX is very clean, all libs and shit goes in /usr/NX.. so if they are created, you in fact don't :)
16:38:38  <Kjetil> TrueLight: I was thinking of windows. It won't launch the installer without admin privs
16:38:45  <TrueLight> Ah, the client?
16:38:47  <Kjetil> yes
16:38:57  <TrueLight> I hate that tiny little fact yes
16:39:02  <TrueLight> an old client does install without rights
16:39:04  <TrueLight> but it doesn't work anymore
16:39:08  <TrueLight> the new clients don't
16:39:09  <TrueLight> really annoying
16:39:15  <TrueLight> tip: don't use it via windows :) Hehehehe
16:39:21  <Kjetil> It wined it on another box and copyed the files over. Didn't work
16:39:22  <TrueLight> I used cygwin to launch the linux client :p
16:39:33  <TrueLight> no, it really needs something in the reg I believe
16:39:35  <TrueLight> can't remember
16:39:36  <TrueLight> really silly
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16:40:09  <Kjetil> I could log on and select session but the X bit didn't work
16:41:29  <TrueLight> that is odddddd
16:41:31  <TrueLight> dunno :)
16:41:33  <TrueLight> rarely use windows :)
16:41:46  <TrueLight> there is no freenx-client
16:41:47  <TrueLight> that sucks :p
16:41:56  <Kjetil> All the terminals on the Uni. uses Windows
16:42:15  <TrueLight> here too, just one department doesn't.. so I am always there :p
16:42:24  <TrueLight> (astronomy department, you can't live without linux there :))
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16:44:20  <Kjetil> hehe
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16:57:41  <CIA-2> truelight * r6202 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( config.lib configure):
16:57:41  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Codechange: moved around some code
16:57:41  <CIA-2> -Cleanup: it is SUPPRESS (double p)
16:57:41  <CIA-2> -Codechange: show if we suppress language error (and enable it when 'version' file exists)
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17:12:04  <Tron> !seen alltaken
17:12:05  <_42_> Tron, Alltaken ( was last seen quitting #openttd 2 days 6 hours 25 minutes ago (26.08. 10:46) stating "Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]" after spending 1 hour 55 minutes there.
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17:22:49  <Bjarni> w = AllocateWindowDescFront(&_player_aircraft_desc, (order << 16) | (VEH_Aircraft << 11) | SHARE_FLAG); <-- any idea why that results in a window with window_number set to 0?
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17:23:15  <Bjarni> it's clearly NOT zero when calling
17:25:55  <Tron> some context would be helpful
17:26:16  <Bjarni> you can get the diff, but it's really messy right now
17:26:35  <Tron> well, do you want an answer or not?
17:27:33  * Tron adores his alpha blended tubular bridge
17:27:37  <Bjarni>
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17:28:15  <Bjarni> PlayerVehWndProc always got window_number = 0, nomatter what I do
17:29:30  <Tron> which of them?
17:29:30  <Patrick`> find all the places where it gets set to 0, and set them to 1, 2, 3, etc
17:29:40  <Patrick`> to see which "int x = 0" is carrying over
17:29:51  <Patrick`> I dunno. It's what I'd do.
17:29:59  <AsterixMG> hmm, whats that (WEH_Aircraft << 11) for?
17:30:05  <Bjarni> <Tron>	which of them? <-- it doesn't matter which of the windows I try to make, it fails on all of them
17:30:09  <AsterixMG> -W+V
17:30:33  <Bjarni> to tell that the window should draw aircrafts
17:31:15  <Tron> given that setting the window number is the last line before the return in AllocateWindowDescFront() i doubt that
17:31:16  <Bjarni> trying to unify the window handing function for the vehicle lists
17:31:42  <Tron> whatever 0 you're seeing, it's not the window_number
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17:32:35  <AsterixMG> hmm, didn't i do something like that for my stats-patch?... lets see :)
17:33:59  * Belugas wonders if Tron will extend the alpha blending to more then tubular bridges ;)
17:34:42  <Wolf01> uhm, i noticed it yesterday: why is not possible to rename buoys
17:35:19  <AsterixMG> hmm, no, seems i just called the windows for different vehicletypes :)
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17:36:34  <AsterixMG> hmm, but it added something to window.h :/
17:37:26  <Tron> Belugas: fighting with Gimp to get this single sprite an useable alpha channel was hard enough
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17:40:44  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, by the way, i would like to have an altered BuildVehicleList-function... that wasn't chenged yet, was it?
17:41:21  <Belugas> Tron : I believe you :)  looks really cool, by the way3
17:41:29  <Bjarni> hmm
17:41:32  <Bjarni> found the reason
17:41:46  <MeusH> Tron: so you're working on alpha blending together with egladil? I belive I saw alpha blending images from egladil...
17:41:51  <MeusH> Bjarni: what's that?
17:41:52  <Bjarni> it calls WE_CREATE before the number is set
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17:43:46  <MeusH> I remember making my java game for mobile. It was crashing constantly on game start, so I put lots of System.out.println debug lines. About 50 strings to go to the console. Of course I tracked the bug, which was creating stuff before initializing the right values for it, but anyway, it was a hell to remove the debug commands :/
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17:46:15  <Triffid_Hunter> MeusH: that's why you put "if (DEBUG) " in your paste buffer when adding them, and #define DEBUG=1 at the top ;)
17:46:29  <Triffid_Hunter> or whatever the java equivs are
17:47:12  <MeusH> yep, that's right
17:47:21  <MeusH> since that moment I use if (debug)
17:47:42  <Triffid_Hunter> smart compiler won't even include the code for the debugs if the flag is constant and set to 0.
17:48:16  <Triffid_Hunter> so doesn't matter if they reference variables that no longer exist until next time you debug something ;)
17:48:50  <AsterixMG> Tron, when planning on getting it integrated into trunk, would you rather suggest to change the existing BuildVehicleList to my needs or add another function for it that fits my needs?
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17:52:50  <Tron> MeusH: no, it's just a quick hack to test some things, basically it boils down to a single line: d[i] = ((d[i] & 0xFEFEFE) + (s[i] & 0xFEFEFE)) >> 1;
17:53:24  <Tron> Belugas: thanks, it's just a quick hack
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17:54:43  <MeusH> ohh, I see. So there is no png support yet?
17:54:57  <Tron> the bridge piece is a png
17:55:02  <MeusH> allright
17:55:04  <MeusH> thanks
17:55:06  <Tron>
17:55:55  <MeusH> <- wow, what's that?
17:56:15  <Tron> Bounding Boxes
17:56:42  <Tron> hence its name
17:56:44  <hylje> liek
17:58:04  <MeusH> yeah, but what are bounding boxes for in OpenTTD?
17:58:22  <Tron> sprite sorting
17:59:07  <Tron> there are lies, damn lies and OTTD bounding boxes
17:59:34  <Tron> try to find the BB of the tunnel entrances
17:59:45  <Bjarni> yes, now the windows draws correctly again :D
17:59:48  <Belugas> nice going Tron,  Give us more "quick hack" like those ^_^
17:59:50  <hylje> lies
17:59:52  <MeusH> ahh, I see what you mean :) I think
18:00:07  <Ammler> Hi someone of you knows the fallowing problem: openttd: rail_cmd.c:163: GetRailFoundation: Assertion `0' failed.
18:00:42  <MeusH> Tron: I'm intrested in I enjoyed this game. Are you making some kind of OpenMoO2? :)
18:01:42  <Tron> i just extracted some graphics, sound and music from the game data files
18:02:15  <Tron> if somebody is interested in taking this further, the source should be in that directory
18:03:41  <Wolf01> 6th feb 3930 O_O
18:03:50  <Wolf01> weird savegame
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18:04:32  <Tron> MeusH: please be careful with the big animated GIFs, i only have 20k/s upstream
18:05:06  <MeusH> Tron: yeah, I didn't touch them, I don't have a good downstream to download big gifs
18:05:34  <Tron> MeusH: btw: MoO2 runs fine in Wine
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18:10:26  <Tron> Belugas: it's really just a quick hack, there even isn't a blitter for the smaller zoom levels and it only support 50% transparency
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18:24:35  <CIA-2> truelight * r6203 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: typo in --help (Rubidium)
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18:35:04  <Wolf01> is the forum down?
18:36:35  <Belugas> do we have a forum ???
18:36:37  <Belugas> Cool!
18:36:38  <AsterixMG> hmm, would not be the first time today that its not reachable
18:37:16  <Wolf01> always when i try to post something? maybe my weird isp make it instable
18:37:23  <Wolf01> unstable
18:37:28  <AsterixMG> lol
18:37:52  <AsterixMG> well, can't connect currently
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18:39:04  <ln-> "Enligt uppgifter till vid 19.30-tiden kan det ha inträffat en olycka i en kärnkraftsreaktor på Kolahalvön utanför Murmansk."
18:39:20  <AsterixMG> ?!
18:39:46  <Wolf01> ehm, in ital..english?
18:40:10  <MeusH> ln-, what does it mean?
18:40:14  <JohnUK89> In characters that are recogniseable to X? :P
18:40:15  <hylje> svenska
18:41:35  <Wolf01> the forum is back
18:42:02  <AsterixMG> Wolf01, no, i don't think it means that ;)
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18:42:40  <ln-> MeusH: according to, there's possibly been a nuclear reactor accident near Murmansk.
18:43:23  <hylje> poor lapland
18:44:58  <ln-> don't you people understand swedish?
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18:45:16  <real> what is swedish?
18:45:23  <JohnUK89> ln-: considering most of us aren't swedish ourselves, no
18:46:21  <ln-> i'm not swedish either.
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18:47:40  <grimrc1> we understand English though
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18:53:05  <CIA-2> rubidium * r6204 /trunk/ (56 files in 7 dirs): -Cleanup: replace non-indentation with spaces; like '}<TAB>else {' -> '} else {', tabs between code and comment, etc.
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18:54:29  <MeusH> Darkvater: how's the tile measurement?
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19:03:03  <izhirahider> Is there somewhere downloadable the game that generates OpenTTD main menu?
19:03:06  <Tron> Rubidium: i see somebody has been toying too much with grep (;
19:03:27  <Tron> izhirahider: data/opntitle.dat, it's a normal savegame
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19:04:01  <JohnUK89> Not much happens outside what you see on the main screen though :)
19:04:11  <Rubidium> Tron: this one is relatively small ;)
19:04:24  <Tron> yep, it's just a big fake
19:05:03  <izhirahider> Tron, thanks
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19:22:16  <grimrc1> 107 views and no replies - openttd screensaver topic on forum - that's about 11 minutes per viewing
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19:26:26  <Patrick`> you'll be frustrated at how many good ideas never capture the public opinion
19:26:38  *** StarLite [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:26:52  <Patrick`> unless you deliver a fully-functional and entertaining end-product, people just won't bother
19:27:01  <hylje> tru
19:27:05  <Patrick`> remember also that ottd cpu usage is roughly a function of screen area (ish)
19:27:23  <Patrick`> so a fullscreen screensaver will burn a lot of cycles compared to, say, flying toasters
19:28:27  <hylje>
19:28:36  <Patrick`> magnificent
19:29:26  <hylje> note that the warning icon is named Laff_alert.svg
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19:34:46  <grimrc1> I think the patch is pretty clean and nice too
19:35:02  <Bjarni> "Shockingly, there are multiple locations in the United States with the name "Devil's Lake." A very heated war broke out here regarding which one should be featured, whether a disambig page was needed, even over the usage of the apostrophe- eventually literally degenerating into "my lake is better than yours!"" <-- ROFL
19:36:10  <hylje> comedy gold there
19:37:08  <grimrc1> I can't seem to find any wikipedia usage stats - that'd be interesting
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19:51:06  <grimrc1> hah that's funny about Germans fighting over the esset
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19:53:48  <MeusH> lol
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19:58:01  <grimrc1> jah - the 'feces' one - should it include a picture of a large, human turd - lol
19:58:15  <hylje> meta-lameness is the win
19:58:31  <Patrick`> meta-meta-lamesss
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20:40:54  <ln->   (safe for work)
20:43:01  <TrueLight> lol ln- :)
20:45:40  <Patrick`> bahaha, I've had ln on ignore the whole time
20:47:02  <TrueLight> not that you missed anything :p
20:48:19  <Kjetil> old :P I saw it .. 24 minutes ago :P
20:49:49  <Bjarni> ln-: LOL
20:50:28  <Bjarni> Kjetil: jokes age THAT fast in Norway?
20:50:38  <Sacro> ln-: thanks, i needed that
20:50:42  * Bjarni just decided not to go to Norway
20:50:51  <Bjarni> I might age too quickly
20:51:05  <WolfAngel> Bjarni it's because of the thin air... it's a problem in Denmark too
20:51:15  * Sacro wonders about shoving it in #ubuntu
20:51:18  <Bjarni> it is?
20:51:24  <Bjarni> I never noticed?
20:51:28  <WolfAngel> yup ^^...
20:52:20  <Kjetil> Bjarni: And water turns to wine in a matter of hours
20:52:37  <Bjarni> ...
20:52:44  <WolfAngel> ... A good skill for long parties...
20:52:54  <Bjarni> I thought Norway turned water into electricity
20:53:24  <WolfAngel> That's what they make you think...
20:53:38  <WolfAngel> You're still plugged in...
20:53:43  <Kjetil> using water for electricity is just a coverup
20:53:44  <grimrc1> Jez; cleanlier is a word!?
20:54:22  <WolfAngel> grimrc1 : it's a combination of 9 letters
20:54:31  <grimrc1> and cleanliest!
20:54:37  <grimrc1> and I'm English!
20:54:49  <WolfAngel> ^^
20:55:01  <WolfAngel> and I'm Danish!
20:55:21  <grimrc1> oh I'm sorry (joke)
20:55:35  <WolfAngel> riioooggghhttt...
20:55:44  <Patrick`> I'm England!
20:55:51  <WolfAngel> you're trying to steal my beacon!! all of you!
20:55:52  * Bjarni gangs up on grimrc1 together with WolfAngel
20:56:10  * Bjarni steps on Patrick`
20:56:10  <WolfAngel> beacon... that seems wrong?...
20:56:18  <Patrick`> mm, bacon
20:56:23  <Patrick`> salty pig flesh
20:56:24  <WolfAngel> there it was ^^
20:56:44  <Bjarni> beacon is not really the same as bacon ;)
20:57:18  <WolfAngel> ... my point...
20:57:33  <Bjarni> is there a point to this?
20:57:36  <Bjarni> oh
20:57:37  <Bjarni> yeah
20:57:40  <WolfAngel> not at all ^^
20:57:44  <Bjarni> . <-- the point
20:57:55  <WolfAngel> . <-- the dot
20:58:12  <Bjarni> you missed the point
20:58:34  <Kjetil> . <- DOTT
20:58:47  <WolfAngel> ... i'll just end my line with a ";" then...;
20:58:51  <Bjarni> no, I don't want to time travel today
20:58:57  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:46  <real> Parse Error near "then...;" - expecting more information.
20:59:53  *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]]
21:00:08  <WolfAngel> ... chatzilla... omg
21:00:13  <WolfAngel> ^^ sound cool
21:00:14  <Sacro> :o
21:00:16  <WolfAngel> sounds*
21:00:20  <Patrick`> mmm#
21:00:21  <Sacro> probably NFSW
21:00:46  <grimrc1> heh
21:00:48  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
21:00:50  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
21:01:11  <WolfAngel> why haven't I got voice ^^...
21:01:23  * WolfAngel is talking without a voice...
21:01:27  <grimrc1> shame it has to be a chickboy
21:01:43  <WolfAngel> something like that requires skills ^^...
21:02:17  <grimrc1> or is it?  I can't tell actually
21:02:21  <Bjarni> 	<WolfAngel>	why haven't I got voice ^^... <-- because I got the remote and I hit the mute button whenever you say something
21:02:40  <WolfAngel> ... darn
21:02:50  * WolfAngel gets muted by Bjarni
21:03:03  <Bjarni> then you can code a whole lot faster :D
21:03:14  <WolfAngel> ^^ allways
21:03:25  <Bjarni> so what are you coding now?
21:03:44  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
21:03:45  <WolfAngel> ... well right now nothing ^^...
21:03:52  * Sacro considers either YAPS or cargo-packet
21:03:54  <WolfAngel> normaly... php ^^
21:04:08  <Bjarni> I meant for OpenTTD
21:04:09  <Kjetil> Starring Bjarni as agent Smith and WolfAngel as Neo/Mr. Anderson "What good is a phonecall if you are unable to speak?"
21:04:21  <Bjarni> :P
21:04:33  <WolfAngel> the ones you have with the persons you don't like...
21:04:40  <Sacro> ROFL
21:04:49  <WolfAngel> If you haven't got anything good to say... STFU
21:04:50  <WolfAngel> ^^
21:05:04  <Bjarni> Sacro: ROFL
21:05:28  <Born_Acorn> Rolf!
21:05:35  <Kjetil> hahaha
21:05:56  <Bjarni> well, he did as he was asked and it was wrong anyway... cruel world :P
21:06:09  <Sacro> hehe
21:06:24  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:06:31  <Belugas_Gone> nighty night all
21:06:40  <WolfAngel> yeah...
21:06:46  <WolfAngel> sure thing Belugas_Gone ^^
21:07:02  <Sacro> night Belugas_Gone
21:07:19  <Patrick`> south park is far too preachy
21:07:23  <Patrick`> watching the election episode
21:07:35  <Bjarni> instead of coding???
21:07:49  * WolfAngel thinks that maybe the girlfriend kinda was trying to tell him something with the... "Come with me to bed" thing...
21:07:53  <WolfAngel> but hey...
21:08:00  <WolfAngel> girlfriend or IRC...
21:08:10  <Kjetil> irc !
21:08:12  <grimrc1> true about southpark; it could be worse though
21:08:17  <WolfAngel> YEAH! ^^
21:08:26  <Kjetil> WolfAngel: don't you have a laptop /sextop ?
21:08:40  <smeding> IRC ftw
21:08:42  <WolfAngel> ^^
21:08:53  <WolfAngel> nope Kjetil ...
21:09:27  <Sacro> hehe, doggy and put the laptop on her back
21:09:27  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09:34  <Kjetil> dang.. then you gotta stay here
21:09:45  <WolfAngel> yeah... ^^
21:09:48  <WolfAngel> 4ever!
21:09:49  <WolfAngel> ^^
21:10:00  <Sacro> ROFL
21:10:19  <smeding> buhhh..
21:10:27  <smeding> school starts tomorrow!
21:10:28  * smeding dies
21:10:31  <Sacro> hehhehe
21:10:33  <WolfAngel> you nailed that one aye?...
21:10:46  <Sacro> WolfAngel: aye
21:11:08  <WolfAngel> [23:10] Sacro: ROFL
21:11:09  <WolfAngel> ^^
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21:11:27  <Sacro> oh this site is amazing
21:11:36  <WolfAngel> øhøm... not
21:11:48  *** Osai [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Osai^2))]
21:11:53  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
21:12:07  <WolfAngel> oh noo...
21:12:14  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
21:12:17  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
21:12:21  <WolfAngel> Osai got killed!... by NickServ!!
21:12:28  <Kjetil> Murderer !
21:12:36  * WolfAngel faints
21:12:43  <Osai> No I am alive =)
21:12:55  <WolfAngel> [23:12] ·· Osai ( Quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Osai^2)))
21:12:58  <WolfAngel> oh nooo...
21:13:03  <WolfAngel> I can hear dead people...
21:13:08  <Osai> =)
21:13:10  <Sacro> i spy a n00b
21:13:16  <Kjetil> A murderer impersonating the deceased
21:13:23  <WolfAngel> Sacro get away from that mirror
21:13:36  <Sacro>
21:14:13  * WolfAngel will got to bed now...
21:14:18  <WolfAngel> sleep well guys...
21:14:42  <WolfAngel> code safely... don't drink and code...
21:15:00  <Bjarni> some of the code looks like that might be the case
21:15:04  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:15:12  <WolfAngel> you allways end up with parse errors...
21:15:24  <Bjarni> no, that's not what I meant
21:15:25  <smeding> i've never really looked into the OpenTTD source code anyway
21:15:25  <WolfAngel> just look at Windows...
21:15:27  *** JohnUK89 [~JohnUK89@] has joined #openttd
21:15:38  <smeding> i can never look at large projects if i didn't at least help make them
21:15:41  <grimrc1> hi JohnUK89
21:15:57  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: ello
21:16:00  <Bjarni> STR_0198_PROFIT_THIS_YEAR_LAST_YEAR <-- drawing this string in the vehicle windows.... it got a different x,y for each vehicle type
21:16:15  <WolfAngel> ^^
21:16:19  <WolfAngel> nn
21:16:34  <grimrc1> gn
21:16:45  *** WolfAngel [] has quit [Quit: <!--#Exec cmd='Quit'-->]
21:17:44  <JohnUK89> Hmm, would it be better for me to install VMWare Player or QEMU+KQEMU?
21:18:20  <Patrick`> vmware
21:18:25  <Patrick`> let's be honest, it's faster.
21:18:33  <Patrick`> and qemu are sellouts anyway
21:18:38  <JohnUK89> Patrick`: fair point lol
21:18:47  <Patrick`> since they have a for-money closed source "accelerator"
21:19:11  * JohnUK89 prepares for 36MB download
21:19:23  <smeding> dum dum DUUUUUUMMMM
21:19:25  <Patrick`> which means that the OSS version won't ever get that good
21:19:37  <JohnUK89> I already have a VMWare disk image and such
21:19:43  <Triffid_Hunter> Patrick`: it converts qemu from an emulator to a virtualiser.. if you want open source virtualisation, use xen ;)
21:19:46  <JohnUK89> So I'll reuse that :P
21:20:13  <Patrick`> yes, but you can't use xen to run windows in a, um, window
21:20:15  <Patrick`> :P
21:20:15  <JohnUK89> Xen can't run Windows without kickass CPU's
21:20:53  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:20:53  <Darkvater> 19:27  * Tron adores his alpha blended tubular bridge << amen \o/
21:21:04  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:21:07  <JohnUK89> All hail Tron! *bows*
21:21:36  <smeding> i want a lot of money so i can make a Beowulf cluster with 5.25" slot embedded PCs just 'cause.
21:21:41  *** Born_Acorn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:43  <smeding> in a CoolerMaster Stacker too.
21:21:49  <Triffid_Hunter> is alpha blending new to openttd or something?
21:22:00  <JohnUK89> Triffid_Hunter: yes :P
21:22:24  <Sacro> and round i go
21:22:34  *** StarLite [] has joined #openttd
21:22:42  <Triffid_Hunter> oh
21:22:48  <JohnUK89> Sacro: ello ;-)
21:23:01  <Sacro> JohnUK89: hi
21:23:55  <JohnUK89> Ooh I just got 1337 bytes a second on a download lol
21:24:07  <JohnUK89> And yes I'm sad :P
21:24:38  <Sacro> hmm
21:26:10  <Patrick`> that's awfully slow
21:26:14  <Patrick`> I top out at 1337 kb
21:26:19  <JohnUK89> Patrick`: yeah :-\
21:26:24  <Patrick`> bytes, that is
21:26:24  <Patrick`> :D
21:27:03  <JohnUK89> In a couple of weeks I should get closer to 500kB meself...hopefully more if I can tempt me dad into 10Mb
21:27:11  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
21:27:57  <JohnUK89> And I won't have me connection arsing about for 5 minutes connecting either
21:28:27  <Patrick`> mmm
21:28:56  <grimrc1> higher data rates are a bit overrated
21:29:28  <grimrc1> unless you'll be maxing out your connection I suppose
21:29:33  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: not when you have several transfers on the go, or you have access to a 100Mb server that only 10 people download off :P
21:29:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't have cared about higher data rates, if there only would be ISDN flatrates
21:30:14  <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause: lol
21:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no, really...
21:30:44  <JohnUK89> One of my mates has 10Mb, and I was in shock when I saw it maxing out at 1.25MB...
21:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't care if the download takes 3 days
21:30:57  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: now you understand why though?
21:31:11  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: understand what?
21:31:20  <grimrc1> why 10Mb/s = 1.25MB/s
21:31:21  <Sacro> heh, i max mine out around 375KB/s
21:31:28  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: I always have...
21:31:38  <grimrc1> oh ok
21:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> since ISDN i have evolved to 45KB/s
21:31:49  <JohnUK89> But I'd never seen that speed in action
21:31:49  <grimrc1> so it was just shocking to see 1.25MB/s
21:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> which i rarely max out
21:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but it IS a flatrate
21:32:18  <JohnUK89> This 10Mb is flatrate :P
21:32:19  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:32:25  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro]
21:32:28  <grimrc1> flatrate means no GB/month charges?
21:32:34  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: yeah]
21:32:35  <JohnUK89> -[
21:32:39  <JohnUK89> -] too
21:32:41  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:32:51  <grimrc1> those charges are lame
21:33:03  <JohnUK89> grimrc1: yeah, I really hate ISP's that impose them
21:33:14  * JohnUK89 curses BT
21:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> well... you usually don't care about traffic limits of 3? GB per month, unless you do filesharing ;)
21:33:52  <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause: *koff*
21:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that being said, i have an average throughput of like 20GB per month ;)
21:34:53  <Sacro> :( we're going up to 8MB/s soon
21:34:57  * JohnUK89 strokes his multiple BitTorrent clients
21:35:21  <Sacro> but am limited to 50GB/month during the hours of 19-00
21:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of strange limit is that?
21:35:58  <JohnUK89> Sacro: 50GB isn't too's the poor buggers on 2GB that need worrying about
21:36:11  <Sacro> JohnUK89: heh, yeah, Karoo offer that
21:36:27  <JohnUK89> So do Orange, and TalkTalk
21:36:33  <Sacro> 1GB a month, with a speed of 8MB/s :D
21:36:37  <JohnUK89> LOL!
21:36:40  <Sacro> i make that 2 minutes flat out
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21:37:01  <JohnUK89> Sacro: about 17 minutes flat lol
21:37:30  <JohnUK89> NTL don't complain unless you hit something stupid like a terabyte
21:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> one of my friends once had traffic problems due to teamspeak ;)
21:38:52  <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause: ewww nasty
21:38:59  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:39:00  <JohnUK89> TeamSpeak transfers NOWT lol
21:39:04  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:39:16  <JohnUK89> Sacro: hot your limit? :P
21:39:19  <JohnUK89> hit*
21:39:40  <Sacro> JohnUK89: nope, laptops fugged
21:39:45  <JohnUK89> Lol
21:39:53  <JohnUK89> I'll have it if you want rid ;-)
21:39:56  <Sacro> im on 2.5Mb uncapped
21:39:59  <Sacro> yeah, can do
21:40:06  <Sacro> ill see if ican kick it your way
21:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> from t'ull to t'leeds?
21:40:37  <JohnUK89> Sacro: If you fancy paying for postage send it me...I'll have a use for it :)
21:40:46  <JohnUK89> The use being Sixth Form work :)
21:40:47  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: its just ull :P nice try though
21:40:51  <JohnUK89> (Oh and OTTD)
21:40:52  <Sacro> from ull t'leeds
21:41:06  <Sacro> it wont run windows though
21:41:08  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, ok... i am still in a learning state ;)
21:41:10  <JohnUK89> Aye, 'ull is in 'umberside
21:41:16  <Sacro> NOOO
21:41:24  <JohnUK89> :P
21:41:44  <Sacro> desipte what the royal mail say
21:41:50  <JohnUK89> Still 'umberside
21:41:57  <Sacro> not since 1/6/96
21:42:00  *** real [] has left #openttd []
21:42:07  <JohnUK89> It's at t'side of t'umber
21:42:08  <Darkvater> any html/css gurus here?
21:42:26  <JohnUK89> So it's 'umberside :P
21:42:26  <Sacro> Darkvater: yeah
21:42:53  <Sacro> that reminds me, need to re-upload stuff
21:43:04  <Darkvater> Sacro: << how do I center this?
21:43:10  <Darkvater> the "ICE doing stuff...' text
21:43:20  <JohnUK89> Sacro: fancy making me a website for free? :)
21:44:04  <Sacro> .box_text { font-align: center }
21:44:14  <Darkvater> font-align?
21:44:16  <Sacro> JohnUK89: why?
21:44:25  <JohnUK89> Because I want one :P
21:44:28  <Maedhros> text-align, surely?
21:45:02  <Sacro> Maedhros: ah yes :) silly me
21:45:14  <Sacro> Darkvater: text-align
21:45:17  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:45:22  <Sacro> or <center></center>
21:45:22  <Darkvater> doesn't work
21:45:24  <Darkvater> (refresh)
21:45:34  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
21:46:04  <Darkvater> ah, center works outside of div
21:46:10  * Darkvater hits himselfin the head
21:46:17  <JohnUK89> lmao
21:46:25  <Darkvater> thanks Sacro
21:46:30  <Sacro> Darkvater: your welcome :)
21:46:42  <JohnUK89> Darkvater: why not make him do it all? :P
21:47:22  <Darkvater> hehe
21:49:08  <Sacro> mmm, sexy
21:49:16  * Sacro huggles his curvy corners
21:49:22  <JohnUK89> lol
21:49:50  <JohnUK89> Sacro: you're meant to hug women, not corners :)
21:50:49  <Bjarni> I'm done unifying the controller functions for the vehicle list windows :D
21:50:51  <Bjarni> now it's only one function for all vehicle types
21:50:53  <Bjarni> Darkvater: feel like reading a diff?
21:51:24  <Darkvater> you're a funny man bjarni
21:51:31  <Bjarni> I know :)
21:51:44  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: nice one :)
21:51:54  <Bjarni> <JohnUK89>	Sacro: you're meant to hug women, not corners :) <-- maybe it's some sort of fetish
21:51:54  <JohnUK89> Now if only I could patch stuff :P
21:52:01  <Darkvater> judging from the description it's not fit for this time for me
21:52:03  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: maybe lol
21:56:21  <Sacro> Bjarni: you dont wanna know
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21:59:17  <JohnUK89> Is there any way to tell wget never to completely give up (ie use as many retries as it takes to get a file)?
21:59:24  <Sacro> JohnUK89: us
21:59:26  <Sacro> *yes
21:59:38  <JohnUK89> Oooh
22:00:56  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:01:11  <Sacro> --tries=inf
22:01:20  <JohnUK89> Okies :)
22:01:38  <JohnUK89> My connection has a history of killing downloads randomly lol
22:02:50  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:03:19  <Darkvater> can anyone in an MP game check if you can give someone 1USD?
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22:07:27  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
22:10:19  <JohnUK89> I suppose I'll go to bed early tonight
22:10:25  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:10:45  <grimrc1> Sacro: you're working on Rooms4U?   I was thinking of making a dynamic website for rentals - those rental agencies are arseholes who don't do anything for the extortionate amount of commission they want - they sit in an office and use bits of paper to file stuff, when they could just be replaced by a database
22:10:55  <grimrc1> shit he's gone
22:12:19  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:51  <JohnUK89> Night all :)
22:12:56  <JohnUK89> /nigh JohnUK89|Bed
22:13:00  <JohnUK89> DAMNIT!
22:13:01  <JohnUK89> LOL!
22:13:09  *** JohnUK89 is now known as JohnUK89|Bed
22:13:13  <JohnUK89|Bed> :P
22:13:24  <Bjarni> ok, you are sleepy ;)
22:13:40  <Bjarni> hi Brianetta
22:13:44  <JohnUK89|Bed> Yeah :-\
22:13:47  * JohnUK89|Bed buggers off
22:14:13  <Brianetta> hiya
22:14:28  <Bjarni> Brianetta: I committed the shared orders list
22:15:21  <Bjarni> and control-click goto depot for service only
22:15:47  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
22:16:08  <Bjarni> actually I thought of you when I wrote them
22:16:22  <Bjarni> not only you, but you as well. I think you might like them
22:16:51  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
22:17:49  <Bjarni> and I guess you will like another one as well that I got in progress... "send all vehicles in list to depot"
22:18:16  <grimrc1> Bjarni: why don't you use CIA to declare commits?
22:18:39  <Bjarni> I do
22:18:46  <Bjarni> but Brianetta have been away
22:18:48  <grimrc1> ohhh
22:18:56  <Bjarni> and I would like to see what he says :)
22:19:12  <Darkvater> he means
22:19:17  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 6000
22:19:19  <_42_> Commit by miham :: r6000 /trunk/lang/ (5 files) (2006-08-20 18:43:43 UTC)
22:19:21  <_42_> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-20 20:43:15
22:19:23  <_42_> danish     - 24 fixed, 1 changed by Bjarni (25)
22:19:25  <_42_> hungarian  - 2 fixed by miham (2)
22:19:27  <_42_> polish     - 2 fixed, 3 changed by meush (5)
22:19:29  <_42_> portuguese - 3 fixed by izhirahider (3)
22:19:31  <_42_> (...) (truncated)
22:19:37  <Bjarni> ahh
22:19:43  <Darkvater> I think
22:19:49  <Darkvater> but it's late
22:19:53  <Darkvater> so I say you goodnight :)
22:19:58  <JohnUK89|Bed> Is it me or is TGP in trunk slow?
22:20:00  <Bjarni> !openttd commit 6161
22:20:01  <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r6161 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-26 22:28:40 UTC)
22:20:03  <_42_> -Feature: List of vehicles with the same shared orders
22:20:05  <_42_>    the list is available in the orders window and looks like the list buttons from the station windows (small vehicle)
22:20:07  <_42_>    The button is disabled if the vehicle do not have any shared orders or it got shared orders, but an empty order list
22:20:09  <_42_>    based on a patch by nycom, thought it ended up getting heavily modified
22:20:10  <JohnUK89|Bed> (one last thing before I sleep)
22:20:11  <_42_>    Thanks to TrueLight for proofreading and suggestions
22:20:21  <Bjarni> !openttd commit 6165
22:20:23  <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r6165 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-27 09:28:52 UTC)
22:20:25  <_42_> -Feature: control click Goto Depot will now make the vehicle service
22:20:27  <_42_>  at the depot and leave right away.
22:20:29  <_42_>  To tell the difference the status of stopping vehicles will be in red,
22:20:31  <_42_>  while servicing vehicles will be green.
22:20:33  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: what do you mean by slow?
22:20:33  <_42_> -Codechange: remove some dead code in CmdSendAircraftToHangar() since it is
22:20:35  <_42_> (...) (truncated)
22:20:49  <Bjarni> it was truncated? :P
22:20:53  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: I mean it takes ages to generate, even a 256x256 map
22:21:21  <JohnUK89|Bed> (I'm using r6195)
22:21:22  <Bjarni> JohnUK89|Bed: maybe on your 66 MHz CPU, but not really here
22:21:25  <glx> hilly, arctic and lot of industries ?
22:21:27  <grimrc1> hah
22:21:31  <Bjarni> well, it IS slow in debug builds
22:21:52  *** Neonox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:22:02  * Bjarni got the feeling that Brianetta left again
22:22:19  <JohnUK89|Bed> Bjarni: debugging's on by default? DAMN!
22:22:41  <Bjarni> no it's not
22:23:02  <JohnUK89|Bed> Bjarni: hmm, I didn't turn it on...
22:23:55  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: what settings are you using for TGP?
22:23:59  <grimrc1> shouldn't readelf command be able to find out how openttd was compiled?  I think mine's stripped though
22:24:26  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, send all vehicles in list to depot? which list do you mean for that?
22:24:27  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: Improved tree algoritm, very flat, very smooth, very low sea level
22:24:28  <Bjarni> release builds are automatically stripped
22:24:43  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: the shared orders one
22:24:53  <Bjarni> at least as a start
22:25:04  <JohnUK89|Bed> It's pretty much instant on the same settings in MiniIN r6134
22:25:17  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, ah, ok... but you didn't make a function to get all vehicles for a station yet?
22:25:39  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: map type and number of industries/towns ?
22:25:42  <JohnUK89|Bed> Normal towns, High industries
22:25:46  <JohnUK89|Bed> Temperate map
22:25:54  <grimrc1> JohnUK89|Bed: maybe the generation has slowed a little; can't be sure
22:26:00  <Bjarni> first I need to unify the window handling function (done, just needs proofreading) so I don't have to write such a patch for each vehicle type
22:26:25  <JohnUK89|Bed> grimrc1: stuff a little, it's gone up by over 120x
22:26:29  <Bjarni> then I can take care of such issues
22:26:37  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, i wrote a BuildVehicleList function for my stats-patch some time ago
22:26:55  <grimrc1> there's that random new game thing that I'm using now
22:27:00  <Bjarni> what is that stats patch that you keep talking about?
22:27:14  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, its VERY old ;)
22:27:15  <Bjarni> I'm can't say I remember it :/
22:27:19  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: it's not slow for me (same settings, 256*256 map)
22:27:29  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx, what rev?
22:27:31  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: and I have a 233MHz comp
22:27:37  <glx> r6204
22:27:48  <AsterixMG> Bjarni,
22:28:17  <AsterixMG> i've been away for over 3000 svn-revisions :)
22:28:45  <Bjarni> ahh that one
22:29:12  <Bjarni> <AsterixMG>	i've been away for over 3000 svn-revisions :) <-- sounds like a long time
22:29:12  <grimrc1> that little truck icon shows shared orders?
22:29:18  <Bjarni> did you go to jail or something?
22:29:29  <Bjarni> grimrc1: yes
22:29:30  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: I'm gonna try r6204 myself
22:29:35  <Bjarni> as the tooltips should say
22:29:38  <AsterixMG> i had other things occupying me :)
22:29:53  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: ahh we understand
22:29:57  <Bjarni> you found a girlfriend
22:30:40  <grimrc1> I click and depot is in red, control-click and in green, but the other bus just keeps loading
22:30:59  <AsterixMG> is it worth the effort to try get the vehicle list working, and if so, what would you like it to be like?
22:31:15  <Bjarni> hmm
22:31:29  <AsterixMG> (well, it was working back then ;) )
22:31:56  <AsterixMG> and if i do it, should i replace the current one or add another function?
22:32:15  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: well, keep it on hold for a few days since I'm moving the function and your patch will clash big time with that ;)
22:32:26  * Bjarni is still trying to make sense of what grimrc1 said
22:33:02  <AsterixMG> hmm, yeah, good question :)
22:33:30  <grimrc1> should ctrl-click make both go to depot?
22:33:36  <Bjarni> no
22:33:44  <grimrc1> oh it's a fast stop
22:33:46  <Bjarni> that patch is only on my HD and is not ready yet
22:33:57  <grimrc1> in and out quickly?
22:34:04  <Bjarni> control click will make the vehicle leave instantly again
22:34:09  <Bjarni> useful for autoreplace
22:34:11  <grimrc1> cool
22:34:25  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, ok, then i will wait some time, cause this time i want to split the patch and possibly get at least some parts integrated in the trunk :)
22:34:29  <Bjarni> click and forget about the vehicle. It will handle the rest on it's own
22:34:33  <grimrc1> is the shared order list new too?
22:34:36  <Bjarni> no need to kick them out of the depot anymore
22:34:47  <JohnUK89|Bed> Hmm still slow on r6204...
22:35:32  <Bjarni> AsterixMG: yeah, make small patches. Huge diff files are so... huge and boring to read and keep track of, so it keeps getting postponed until they are outdated
22:35:40  <Bjarni> we don't want that, but it happens anyway
22:35:48  <grimrc1> ohhh there's a slight bug: clicking goto, then click delete to delete and order, then you can't click on goto to cancel the goto mouse setting; have to press escape or close the order window
22:36:16  <AsterixMG> Bjarni, yeah, it was too big back then, so now i'm looking what i need first, before i can do things :)
22:36:25  *** terje [] has quit [Quit: terje]
22:36:27  <Bjarni> grimrc1: I didn't really get that bug
22:36:31  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: 15s on my machine, I don't call that slow
22:37:03  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: I think it's isolated to my machine
22:37:07  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
22:37:39  <Bjarni> !openttd commit 6161
22:37:39  <grimrc1> have some orders in the order list, click goto and the mouse changes, then click on an order and click delete (mouse cursor is still in goto mode) - now you can't click on goto to cancel goto mode; you're stuck with a goto cursor until you close the orders window or press ESC
22:37:40  <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r6161 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-26 22:28:40 UTC)
22:37:42  <_42_> -Feature: List of vehicles with the same shared orders
22:37:44  <_42_>    the list is available in the orders window and looks like the list buttons from the station windows (small vehicle)
22:37:45  <JohnUK89|Bed> What's wierd is MiniIN doesn't do it
22:37:46  <_42_>    The button is disabled if the vehicle do not have any shared orders or it got shared orders, but an empty order list
22:37:48  <_42_>    based on a patch by nycom, thought it ended up getting heavily modified
22:37:50  <_42_>    Thanks to TrueLight for proofreading and suggestions
22:38:01  <Bjarni> 2006-08-26 <-- yeah, I would call it new ;)
22:39:26  <JohnUK89|Bed> It takes about a second flat on MiniIN to generate a map, but a good few minutes on trunk...can't explain it :S
22:39:39  <glx> same seed and settings?
22:39:55  <Bjarni> grimrc1: odd, it works here
22:39:59  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: I haven't tried same seed
22:40:11  <Bjarni> it's still in goto mode and I clicked a station and it got added
22:40:24  <grimrc1> Bjarni: I mean you can't click goto button to cancel goto mode
22:40:38  <grimrc1> it's nothing to do with your patch
22:40:53  <Bjarni> ahh
22:40:54  <Bjarni> yeah
22:40:57  <Bjarni> now I see it
22:41:00  <Bjarni> post a bug report
22:41:00  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: just tried same seed, exhibiting same effects
22:41:05  <Bjarni> or I will forget :p
22:41:15  <grimrc1> Bjarni: I'll look in to making a patch now
22:41:25  <Bjarni> even better :)
22:41:40  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: same effects as slower with trunk?
22:42:02  <JohnUK89|Bed> Yeah, MUCH slower
22:42:38  <glx> but you get the same map in the 2 version I hope
22:43:06  <JohnUK89|Bed> Gimme 5 minutes and I'll tell you :P
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22:43:40  <JohnUK89|Bed> generating now
22:44:05  <JohnUK89|Bed> (well, has been for near on a minute now)
22:44:09  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
22:45:36  <JohnUK89|Bed> It appears to be the same, still geberating though
22:45:43  <JohnUK89|Bed> generating*
22:45:45  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Quit: Dinner.]
22:47:26  <JohnUK89|Bed> Ack
22:47:29  <JohnUK89|Bed> Different map
22:47:47  <JohnUK89|Bed> Hmm
22:47:55  <JohnUK89|Bed> Actually
22:47:59  <JohnUK89|Bed> Same physical map
22:48:04  <JohnUK89|Bed> Just the towns in different places
22:48:42  <glx> hmm so something different happens for town generation
22:48:45  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-226-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:48:49  <AsterixMG> ok, going to bed now, good night @all
22:48:51  <JohnUK89|Bed> Yeah
22:49:03  *** AsterixMG [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
22:49:40  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
22:50:11  <JohnUK89|Bed> Hmm
22:50:21  <Bjarni> <-- hehe
22:50:32  <JohnUK89|Bed> It's the rocky areas, towns and industries that take their time
22:50:42  <JohnUK89|Bed> Not the landscape generation
22:51:37  <JohnUK89|Bed> Cracked it :)
22:51:50  <JohnUK89|Bed> Progress Update Interval :P
22:51:51  <glx> Bjarni: nice :)
22:52:08  *** Netsplit <-> quits: Born_Acorn, dp-, Gonozal_VIII, Zr40, @Belugas_Gone, Sacro, Brianetta, Ammler, grimrc1
22:52:16  <JohnUK89|Bed> ^eww
22:52:23  <Bjarni> reminds me of a teacher I once had. He told that he was colourblind and at one time while he was a child he should decorate his classroom together with another colourblind child. They got a box of colour and drew on the blackboard. When everybody else returned, they just stared at what turned out to be a blue christmas tree. They thought it was green :D
22:52:27  *** Netsplit over, joins: Sacro, Born_Acorn, Gonozal_VIII, Brianetta, grimrc1, dp-, Zr40, Ammler, @Belugas_Gone
22:52:27  <Sacro> :o hedgehog
22:52:29  <XeryusTC> well, there's your network stability :D
22:52:32  <Sacro> wtf
22:53:00  <Born_Acorn> wow. Not even Freenode was that bad. :p
22:53:24  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: oh it was
22:53:28  <Sacro> quakenet was too for a while
22:53:30  <Bjarni> it really was
22:53:41  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: in the patch settings put progress interval timer to 0ms, see what happens when you generate
22:53:49  <Bjarni> and it was horrible due to other issues
22:54:04  <JohnUK89|Bed> update interval*
22:54:34  <JohnUK89|Bed> Would be nice if the person responsible would make the minimum 100ms :)
22:54:41  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: yeah refreshing screen is slow as hell
22:55:04  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: that was the problem
22:55:05  <Bjarni> <-- LOL
22:55:32  <glx> why set the minimum to 100? If someone want to see *all* steps, it's his choice
22:55:44  <glx> nobody force you to set it to 0 :)
22:55:58  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: I didn't know what it did :)
22:58:12  <glx> Bjarni: LOL
22:58:46  <JohnUK89|Bed> Hmm, interestingly any value under 34 slows down the generation like mad, anything from 34 up it goes normal speed
22:58:47  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:58:52  <JohnUK89|Bed> (for me that is)
22:59:02  *** Ammler_ [] has joined #openttd
22:59:10  <glx> it mainly depends on CPU speed I think
22:59:30  <JohnUK89|Bed> Yeah
22:59:50  <JohnUK89|Bed> But it's strange how 1ms too low can slow it down to a snails pace
23:00:21  <Sacro> hmm, im reckoning that im moving out in the next 24 horus
23:00:25  <JohnUK89|Bed> From pretty much instant...
23:00:36  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: annoyed that much?
23:00:42  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: i wish my mum was dead
23:00:51  <Bjarni> o_O
23:00:55  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: oh :S
23:01:05  <JohnUK89|Bed> I feel like that with my dad pretty often
23:01:06  <glx> JohnUK89|Bed: not really, it depends on how much time the refreshing takes
23:01:14  <Bjarni> Sacro: why?
23:01:19  <JohnUK89|Bed> glx: true
23:01:50  <Sacro> Bjarni: she never ever respects me, or does anything for herself, or lets me finish what im doing when she wants somethign doing
23:02:02  <JohnUK89|Bed> When me dad gets on the drink he's an absolute tw*t
23:02:03  <Rubidium> JohnUK89|Bed: if a refresh takes 2ms, the next time the progress is incremented the screen is redrawn, instead after like 500 progress increments
23:02:09  <Bjarni> JohnUK89|Bed: try to set the refresh rate up (or down) so you say only get one update each sec to free more CPU power to the actual map generation
23:02:32  <JohnUK89|Bed> Rubidium: aah
23:02:37  <grimrc1> it'd be nice to have a console command to do it
23:02:49  <Bjarni> Sacro: is that why you dropped out of school?
23:03:05  <Bjarni> she never let you finish what you are doing?
23:03:10  <JohnUK89|Bed> Bjarni: done that now :) update timer is at 1000ms
23:03:30  <Bjarni> JohnUK89|Bed: now check to see if it increase speed a whole lot
23:03:44  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: night]
23:03:48  <Bjarni> if the screen update updates too often, it will eat all the CPU power
23:03:49  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
23:04:02  <Bjarni> at least in theory. I didn't test it ;)
23:04:02  <grimrc1> Sacro: how bad is it really?  the way you said it makes it sound almost trivial, but I know people can have real personality problems (my Dad a bit) that are almost intolerable
23:04:06  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes, i had to drop out the first time cos i couldnt do any work
23:04:15  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:17  <JohnUK89|Bed> Bjarni: I just tested it :P
23:04:22  *** Ammler_ is now known as Ammler
23:04:22  <Sacro> grimrc1: i left 5 years ago and swore i'd never move back
23:04:35  <Rubidium> and if the update interval is shorter than the time needed to redraw, it will show every single step of the generation process
23:04:35  <Sacro> now im paying £30 a week to get treat worse
23:04:50  <JohnUK89|Bed> Rubidium: yeah that's what I got
23:05:06  <JohnUK89|Bed> Right, need sleep
23:05:09  <JohnUK89|Bed> Night :)
23:05:22  <grimrc1> Sacro: really sorry; your Mum might have a slight health problem?
23:05:25  <Rubidium> the map generation seems to be fast, but that is only because it does not increment progress
23:05:27  <glx> night JohnUK89|Bed
23:05:42  <Sacro> grimrc1: yes, she keeps breathing
23:05:46  <grimrc1> heh
23:06:00  <Sacro> i am clinically depressed, and its all down to her
23:06:50  <grimrc1> Sacro: it's tough - don't know what you can do :o(
23:07:09  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:07:46  * Bjarni notes that he should limit Sacro's access to guns, knifes and so on
23:07:55  <Sacro> grimrc1: hoping to rent somewhere tommorow
23:07:59  <grimrc1> Sacro: my parents are doctors and they've both been treated for depression for a short period of time, but I'm pretty sure it's hormonal problems (both probably); I tested borderline hypothyroid (genetic obviously) - doctor was an asshole though so I haven't been to a new one yet (will do really soon though)
23:08:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: im considering it
23:08:33  <Sacro> grimrc1: im supposed to be on antidepressants, but ive stopped taking them due to the fact that getting rid of my mum is the only proper cure
23:09:18  <grimrc1> Sacro: are you sure it's only being around *her* that causes it?
23:09:21  <Bjarni> Sacro: it ain't worth it. It's far better just to move far away
23:09:43  <Bjarni> Sacro: how does Australia sound?
23:10:09  <Bjarni> They speak English (or at least somewhat close to English) and is far away
23:10:09  <Sacro> grimrc1: yes, im so much calmer and better when i dont see her
23:10:37  <Sacro> Bjarni: i have no passport
23:10:41  <Bjarni> get one
23:10:46  <Sacro> cant afford it
23:10:48  <Born_Acorn> One of my lymph nodes has swollen! Argh!
23:10:51  <grimrc1> it's cheaper to get one now
23:10:53  *** PAStheLoD [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )]
23:10:58  <Sacro> plus i'd only be there for 3 months before i get sent home
23:11:17  <Bjarni> then find somewhere else
23:11:32  <grimrc1> Sacro: do you have more family that can help with your Mum?  sounds like she needs treatment
23:11:43  <Sacro> i can rent somewhere, but it'd be £15 a month more, and i'd have to buy my own food as well
23:11:44  <Bjarni> live somewhere in GB with an unlisted address and unlisted phone number and don't tell your mom where it is
23:11:54  <Sacro> grimrc1: i dont see my family much
23:12:05  <grimrc1> Sacro: has she pushed them away?
23:12:21  <Sacro> grimrc1: they all think its just me with the problem
23:12:49  <grimrc1> Sacro: harsh; still, do you reckon one of them would put you up for a while?  they'd see you're not the problem
23:13:15  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	grimrc1: they all think its just me with the problem <-- and you proof them right if you harm your own family
23:13:31  <Sacro> grimrc1: nope, nobody local
23:13:39  <Sacro> Bjarni: not my own family, just her
23:13:42  <grimrc1> Sacro: :o(  what will you do?
23:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this KDE update was possibly a bad idea... :(
23:14:18  <Sacro> grimrc1: well i stand a good chance of getting sectioned
23:14:33  <grimrc1> Sacro: !?  how??
23:14:38  <Bjarni> what's sectioned?
23:14:42  *** Ammler [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:14:43  <Born_Acorn> It sounds bad!
23:15:02  <grimrc1> British health law stuff to take you to a hospital without your auth
23:15:10  *** UserError [] has joined #openttd
23:15:11  <grimrc1> authorisation
23:15:28  <Bjarni> ahh
23:15:39  <grimrc1> usually mental health
23:15:57  <Bjarni> I know how it works (more or less), just not the word
23:16:07  <grimrc1> the UK law has become more draconian (New Labour type thing)
23:17:05  <Bjarni> Sacro: look at the bright side. They will pay for food and housing
23:17:58  <Bjarni> and you are sure that they will keep you for years if you harm anybody (they don't care who)
23:18:44  <Sacro> grimrc1: you can get yourself sectioned
23:18:56  <grimrc1> Sacro: I'm sure you can
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23:20:00  <lws1984> .remo
23:20:03  <lws1984> err.. HEH?
23:20:11  <Born_Acorn> lws1984!
23:20:15  <lws1984> Born_Acorn!
23:20:35  <grimrc1> harming your mother wouldn't help; if people have problems that cause you problems, you can rest assured their problems cause *them* problems too
23:20:46  <Bjarni> Sacro: you should consider carefully what you do. Doing something wrong can spoil the rest of your life even if you might think that it feels right now
23:20:53  <grimrc1> as in, they suffer themselves from their own problems
23:20:55  <SpComb> Logs:
23:20:55  <lws1984> !logs
23:21:51  <Bjarni> Sacro: she will win over you twice if you do it since first is the past, and the second time is the future where you are not free to move
23:22:24  <Bjarni> think about not letting her win again
23:24:09  <Sacro> i want to move out, start my company, and never see or hear about her again
23:24:57  <Bjarni> that can be possible, but only if you keep your criminal record clean
23:25:13  <Sacro> it isnt currently
23:26:45  <Bjarni> hmm
23:27:11  <Bjarni> I meant clean of serious stuff
23:27:27  <Bjarni> stuff that can result in jailtime
23:28:49  <grimrc1> it's true: killing or seriously harming your Mum would really harm your own life
23:29:17  <Sacro> i want to leave the country and never come back
23:29:28  <Bjarni> sending yourself to jail will make her win over you due to the harm it will do to yourself
23:29:30  <grimrc1> Sacro: why do you have to go that far?
23:29:40  <Bjarni> don't let her win
23:29:45  <Sacro> grimrc1: because i dont see another way
23:29:45  <Born_Acorn> The UK is big enough.
23:30:02  <grimrc1> your own town is big enough; it's harder to move further
23:30:05  <Bjarni> Sacro: then figure out a way to move to Australia
23:30:19  <Bjarni> it should be possible if you want to work and earn money
23:30:26  <grimrc1> even if you want to leave, you can leave in steps
23:30:59  <Bjarni> but they might kick you out if you only live on social security, so figuring out how to earn a living is an important step
23:31:33  <Sacro> Bjarni: i know, but i was better living on social security than here
23:31:54  <Bjarni> why did you even move back?
23:32:34  <Sacro> Bjarni: im not sure
23:32:41  <Sacro> my flat got trashed 3 times
23:32:53  <Bjarni> how?
23:32:54  <Sacro> but i was going to get moved to somewhere else
23:33:05  <Sacro> broken into, door kicked in, stuff trashed
23:33:05  <Bjarni> they demolished the building?
23:33:10  <Bjarni> ahh
23:33:10  <Sacro> just the door
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23:33:43  <Bjarni> bad neighbourhood, I guess
23:33:56  <Bjarni> London West End?
23:34:23  <JohnUK89|Bed> Hull, near the outskirts?
23:34:34  <Born_Acorn> 99% of anywhere with "Flats" in the UK is a bad neighbourhood. :p
23:35:02  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: flat, north hull
23:35:42  <JohnUK89|Bed> How's I guess
23:35:44  <Bjarni> move far away from Hull, specially since I take your mom lives near that place
23:35:46  <JohnUK89|Bed> :P
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23:35:55  <JohnUK89|Bed> Couldn't sleep lol
23:36:04  <glx> lol
23:37:33  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away
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23:38:59  <Sacro> Bjarni: well, bout 5 miles north
23:39:07  <Sacro> but i have work in Hull
23:39:42  <Bjarni> forget about work. You have to move so far away that you have to quit your job
23:39:55  <Sacro> but its not that easy
23:40:42  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: the way I see it, you HAVE to move out, and as far away as you can, or you run the risk of making life a misery for yourself
23:40:52  <Bjarni> I never said that it would be easy
23:40:56  <Bjarni> right now
23:41:03  <Bjarni> but it will be best in the long run
23:41:09  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: but i dont really know anywhere else, apart from York, and Sunderland area
23:41:20  <Sacro> i have no qualifications, no job experience
23:41:24  <Bjarni> the long run would be all the time after you moved
23:41:38  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: well do it in several stages...noone said it had to be one big fowl swoop
23:41:45  <JohnUK89|Bed> fell*
23:41:47  <JohnUK89|Bed> lol
23:42:45  <Sacro> i dont even know how/what the stages are
23:42:57  * Bjarni wonders if there could be somebody from the authorities, that Sacro could talk to and seek advice
23:43:10  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: how old are you again?
23:43:13  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: 22
23:43:25  <Bjarni> old enough to move away from mom
23:43:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: ive spoken to them, and im on the waiting list for a council place
23:43:42  <Bjarni> in the same area?
23:43:45  <Bjarni> that's not good enough
23:43:51  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: well get a booking made at a Citizens Advice Beureu
23:43:53  <Sacro> yeah, i cant go away cos i dont have ties to the area
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23:44:05  <Bjarni> you need to live in a place so far away that you can't go back and forth on the same day
23:44:08  <Sacro> im tied to hull or east yorkshire
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23:44:21  <Sacro> Bjarni: well thats a challenge, this island isnt that small
23:44:33  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: there's always the option of going to York to get qualifications and such
23:44:43  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: yeah, but i doubt id get into york
23:45:05  <mikk36> <Bjarni> you need to live in a place so far away that you can't go back and forth on the same day <-- lol, i could travel back and forth in one day from one corner to the other corner of my country :P
23:45:06  <Bjarni> that's the wrong attitude
23:45:17  <mikk36> si i'd have to move out of country to fulfill that requirement :P
23:45:17  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: apprenticeships
23:45:23  <JohnUK89|Bed> There's ALWAYS an option
23:45:34  <mikk36> so*
23:45:51  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: they're generally for 16-19
23:46:03  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: you can still apply for them
23:46:16  <JohnUK89|Bed> There's nothing stopping you trying, only yourself
23:46:50  <JohnUK89|Bed> At the end of the day it all boils down to you putting the effort in to say "yes, I want out" and to do something about it
23:47:02  <Bjarni> Sacro: to get well, you need to move away from your mom. To do that, you have to tell yourself that you can do it
23:47:14  <Bjarni> most other people do it and so can you
23:47:36  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: theres no apprenticeships in the areas i wanna do
23:47:53  <Bjarni> the thought "I can't" is your mother speaking... think about that. Don't let her win
23:48:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: its just a matter of money, im trying to set up a webdesign company, and i need a few hundred to actually buy a system i can use
23:48:21  <Bjarni> hmm
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23:48:59  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: your laptop seems stable-ish, it stays on IRC for a while
23:49:07  <Born_Acorn> Aerospace industries and councils usually have apprenticeships going.
23:49:11  <Bjarni> finance.... well, I can give you some advice
23:50:24  <Bjarni> get a job (doesn't matter what it is, just as long as you make money). Using a paper with proof that you will get paychecks, you can get loan in a bank to get what you need to get started
23:50:58  <Bjarni> to start like that, you need to work long hours if you are a web designer AND got a dayjob, but it's an option
23:51:07  <Sacro> JohnUK89|Bed: its not that stable, im all for throwing it through the window
23:51:09  <Bjarni> and it's not forever, just to get started
23:51:19  <Sacro> Bjarni: i am about £6500 in debt
23:51:25  <Sacro> i cant get a loan
23:51:25  <Bjarni> oh
23:51:27  <Born_Acorn> :O
23:51:34  <Bjarni> that's... alot
23:51:42  <Born_Acorn> indeed.
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23:52:09  <Sacro> yep
23:52:14  <Sacro> its probably a lot more now
23:52:50  <Born_Acorn> Debt means nothing if you don't own anything.
23:52:53  <Bjarni> usually I can help people doing stuff like that even though they don't have any money, but I can't fight a dept like that
23:53:39  <grimrc1> Sacro: can you declare yourself bankrupt?
23:53:47  <Bjarni> in theory, yes
23:53:54  <Sacro> grimrc1: well... i think i can
23:53:54  <JohnUK89|Bed> grimrc1: pointless, he wants to own a company
23:54:11  <JohnUK89|Bed> bankruptcy means you can't own a company for 2 years
23:54:19  <grimrc1> oh true; you want to *own* the company, but you can't become a company director for a while
23:54:48  <grimrc1> still, you should be able to work as a contractor; basically the same thing as a company of one
23:55:05  <Bjarni> yeah
23:55:06  <Sacro> grimrc1: its forever, not just for a while
23:55:18  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: no, it's two years
23:55:36  <Bjarni> besides I'm clueless on how to get rid of a dept like that without declaring bankruptcy
23:55:41  <Sacro> Attempting to run a business can be hampered by being an undischarged bankrupt, since credit will be nigh on impossible. Undischarged bankrupts are also forbidden from being company directors, unless they obtain special leave from the court.
23:55:51  <grimrc1> Sacro: it does mean you can't become an MP, so you'd have to give up that ambission I'm afraid
23:56:09  <JohnUK89|Bed> Sacro: that says undischarged, you get discharged after a couple of years
23:56:43  <grimrc1> yeah what JohnUK89|Bed's saying is true; the only thing I wonder is have they tweaked the rules recently
23:56:52  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	grimrc1: its forever, not just for a while <-- figure that out for sure. In Copenhagen, you can visit some lawyers to get free legal advice. See if you can find something similar
23:57:06  <Bjarni> most likely not in Hull, but York might have it
23:57:23  <Sacro> i cant get to york, costs too mcuh
23:57:40  <Bjarni> good point
23:57:45  <Bjarni> call them
23:57:50  <grimrc1> still Sacro, you may be able to ignore you debt and save up money anyway; don't know what the rules are about non-payment of debt though
23:57:59  <Bjarni> then it doesn't matter if they are in London only
23:58:07  *** UserErr0r [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:58:19  <JohnUK89|Bed> grimrc1: they can get court orders, and call the bailliffs out
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23:58:41  <Bjarni> Sacro: who do you own money? the bank?
23:58:51  <JohnUK89|Bed> owe*
23:58:56  <grimrc1> JohnUK89|Bed: yeap, but that takes a while; plus you can represent yourself in court; saving up to run a business would look quite good maybe (maybe not though)
23:59:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: dunno now, ignored it for years
23:59:20  <JohnUK89|Bed> grimrc1: doubt it...they'd demand the money for the debt

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