Log for #openttd on 3rd September 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:16  *** exe [dgjk@] has left #openttd []
00:01:40  <Bjarni> <Stranger>	head?
00:01:40  <Bjarni> <Stranger>	this sucks ;(
00:01:40  <Bjarni> it's amazing that Sacro didn't comment on this one
00:01:40  <Bjarni> <Stranger>	;/
00:01:40  <Bjarni> *	Sacro likes head ><
00:01:52  <Bjarni> o_O
00:02:01  <Bjarni> what happened to the order of the lines
00:02:34  <Bjarni> it decided to use middle endian or something
00:02:56  <Bjarni> anyway
00:03:00  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:03:04  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:03:57  <glx> hmm it loads fine using precompiled windows binary from
00:06:16  <glx> and the signaling is very very bad
00:08:16  <Frostregen> hmm, won't load even with this patch
00:11:05  <Sacro> why oh why do i think Vista RC1 is pretty
00:13:22  <Sacro> hmm, £210
00:13:33  <Sacro> for ultimate
00:13:50  <Sacro> £136 for ultimate update
00:14:28  <Sacro> so if i can get xp for £74 its cheaper
00:15:32  <Sacro> but then i dont think you can go from 32bit XP to 64bit vista
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00:20:28  <Sacro> oh noes
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02:19:31  <Stranger> what would cause a game sync error?
02:19:35  <Stranger> I mean is it anything that can be fixed?
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03:12:18  <PandaMojo> ~logs
03:12:20  <SpComb> Logs:
03:12:20  <PandaMojo> !logs
03:13:35  <PandaMojo> Stranger: Sync errors arise mainly from bugs in the code which case the client and server to fall out of sync (e.g. disagree on what's happening in the game)
03:14:31  <PandaMojo> If you had a really really crappy internet connection, it could probably arise from a malformed packet which mistakenly succeeded the checksum verification.
03:16:19  <PandaMojo> The solution in that case would be to get a better modem or switch ISPs, depending on the exact cause.
03:16:59  <PandaMojo> As for bugs... well, if you can reproduce them, submitting bug reports is a way to contribute to fixing them if you can't code - and the solution is obvious if you *can* code :)
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03:29:33  <Stranger> hm
03:29:41  <Stranger> well, I did get one crash
03:29:46  <Stranger> but didn't copy the stuff
03:30:00  <Stranger> as far as isp's are concerned, I get my internet through my apartment ppl
03:30:05  <Stranger> so it's not like I can change it
03:30:19  <Stranger> thx though
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03:31:49  <PandaMojo> Probably not your connection anyways.
03:33:19  <Stranger> it's T3
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04:11:42  <PandaMojo> Hmmmph.  I knew I should've added more platforms before rating nuking this town :(
04:15:37  <PandaMojo> Plus it's in the middle of a forest, so I can't just add trees :(
04:24:36  <mikk36> PandaMojo, is it a network game ?
04:24:49  <PandaMojo> mikk36: Naw, local
04:24:58  <mikk36> then save it and open in network
04:25:03  <mikk36> and create a new company
04:25:09  <mikk36> and just destroy all the trees
04:25:16  <mikk36> and then recreate with the original company
04:25:18  <PandaMojo> hehehe, naw, that'd be cheating :P
04:25:25  <mikk36> :P
04:27:29  <PandaMojo> Awwright I'm back up to "very poor"!!!
04:28:20  <mikk36> lol
04:29:11  <PandaMojo> silly town AI, when are you going to learn to stop building stub roads :(
04:29:49  <PandaMojo> makes me feel like a gardener, pruning dead branches
04:30:24  <PandaMojo> Normally I'd build bus stops or similar there, but I already have enough :-/
04:34:30  <PandaMojo> Woohoo second platform added over there *watches the backlog of 6 trains dwindle
04:35:34  <PandaMojo> On the other side of the line.... time to add platforms 4-8!
04:43:33  <mikk36> what sick thing are u building there ?
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04:43:53  <mikk36> hey, grimrc1 :)
04:43:57  <grimrc1> lo
04:44:55  <PandaMojo> mikk36: Just a central terminal
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04:45:15  <PandaMojo> I also added two 3-length platforms which I think I'll use for shuttle service
04:45:43  <PandaMojo> As is my 6 unload bus stations are beginning to strain
04:46:17  <PandaMojo> This should help me maximize usage of my lower station spread as well
04:46:44  <mikk36> pic of this ?
04:49:39  <PandaMojo> Sure, 1 sec
04:50:29  <mikk36> damn... why won't some cities develop at all ?
04:50:49  <mikk36> it's been in heavy transport for 70 years now and still 2k population
04:51:10  <PandaMojo> 0_o
04:51:31  <PandaMojo> My game's been running 13 years (1930 => 1943) and my main town is already 5k :)
04:51:45  <mikk36> some cities grow nicely, some not :/
04:52:06  <PandaMojo> I'm very hands on with many cities
04:52:17  <PandaMojo> pruning stupid roads, adding sane ones
04:52:31  <PandaMojo> massive bus => train station setups
04:52:53  <PandaMojo> I'm also using the trunk from SVN, that might be part of it
04:53:02  <mikk36> i dropped developing passenger network since it's just tooo timewasting to connect the cities
04:53:07  <mikk36> and too expensive
04:53:17  <PandaMojo> Bah, passenger systems are where it's at!
04:53:44  <mikk36> i got bored by connecting the cities
04:54:00  <mikk36> although i have now uhm... 10 cities connected
04:54:07  <PandaMojo> I have two main games right now, this 1930 low industry game, and a 1990 no-(initial)-city game
04:54:15  <PandaMojo> err no initial industry
04:54:17  <mikk36> every city has 1 train to every other city
04:54:26  <PandaMojo> Bah, make hub systems!
04:54:47  <mikk36> don't need :)
04:54:55  <mikk36> yet
04:54:56  <mikk36> :P
04:55:04  <PandaMojo> Get like 10 smaller towns all transfering to one central station, then have that haul to the farthest possible point on the map.
04:55:14  <mikk36> hehe... :D
04:55:43  <grimrc1> yeah making a nice network is what it's about; not these point-to-point connections; eventually the gameplay will change so passengers want to go to somewhere particularly (and not just 'anywhere')
04:56:29  <PandaMojo> That comming with cargo packets?
04:57:15  <grimrc1> think so; I don't know much about that patch though
04:57:26  <grimrc1> it'll happen eventually; it'll be optional though
04:57:57  <grimrc1> I can't wait till the economy simulation is redone
04:58:00  <PandaMojo> something to look forward to all the same
04:58:07  <mikk36> grimrc1, i have all the cities connected to 1 big network
04:58:32  <mikk36> not point-to-point railways
04:58:43  <grimrc1> the game's too unbalanced for network play; you've got coal -> power station networks making loads of money; then aeroplanes
04:58:58  <grimrc1> mikk36: should be easy to adapt to cargo packets then
04:59:06  <mikk36> yeh
04:59:18  <mikk36> i always use 1 huge universal network
04:59:19  <grimrc1> have you guys tried playing openttd on the internet?
04:59:32  <mikk36> i play only on the net :P
04:59:47  <mikk36> atm playing in my own server
04:59:53  <mikk36> [EST]Mikk36's OTTD
05:00:00  <Frostregen> where? with brianettas server gone, there is no one left with good settings :/
05:00:24  <PandaMojo> is my current game
05:00:25  <grimrc1> I don't play on the net anymore because the game isn't balanced well for multiplayer
05:00:36  <mikk36> grimrc1, i don't care about the money
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05:00:47  <mikk36> it's about the beauty of the network :)
05:01:18  <grimrc1> mikk36: yeah I know; but sometimes that's the *only* thing TTD has going for it
05:01:34  <PandaMojo> After the upgrade... I'm about to start cloning my passenger route trains some more :P
05:03:05  <PandaMojo> Methinks I need to upgrade to doubled tracks
05:03:11  <mikk36> yup
05:03:15  <mikk36> thought the same
05:03:18  <grimrc1> cargo packets should reward a good network more than a disjointed one right?
05:03:29  <mikk36> 8 lanes through 1 bottleneck
05:04:25  <mikk36> one more thing
05:04:41  <PandaMojo> Mmm?
05:04:41  <mikk36> why care about the money anyway if u have millions and millions coming in every year ?
05:04:51  <PandaMojo> I don't :P
05:05:08  <grimrc1> if the game was a lot harder, then you would care
05:05:17  <PandaMojo> If I did I would be a lot more agressive in spending it, to maximize my investment :P
05:05:56  <mikk36> i don't see real life much harder actually for big companies
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05:06:33  <mikk36> for example - our biggest ferry company profited over 500 million last year
05:06:55  <mikk36> and if i'm correct it has 6 ferries
05:06:58  <mikk36> or smth like that
05:07:24  <PandaMojo> Yeah, but those ferries cost a lot more than the few thousand they cost in OTTD
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05:08:07  <mikk36> so u'd rather wait 10 years to buy 1 new ferry ?
05:08:15  <PandaMojo> Of course not.
05:08:18  <mikk36> :P
05:08:31  <PandaMojo> But that makes OTTD easier than IRL :)
05:08:51  <grimrc1> 10 game years?
05:08:57  <mikk36> yes
05:09:03  <grimrc1> heh - I don't want to wait 10 real years
05:09:18  <mikk36> lol
05:09:26  <grimrc1> in multiplayer, it might be fun to try to buy each other out
05:09:47  <mikk36> how so ?
05:10:07  <PandaMojo> Ahh, it's the other side of the network that's bottlenecking still
05:10:18  <mikk36> :/
05:10:21  <grimrc1> I don't know; that's the hard part
05:10:40  <mikk36> it's not fun to buy out companies in multiplayer
05:10:46  <mikk36> at least for the other party
05:10:56  <mikk36> when u buy him
05:11:13  <mikk36> cause he receives no money for it :P
05:11:38  <mikk36> it all goes to the central bank
05:13:55  <grimrc1> he could carry on playing I suppose
05:14:49  <mikk36> not really atm
05:14:55  <mikk36> u just lose ur company :P
05:16:37  *** CoRnJuLIOx [~vircuser@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:16:52  <mikk36> btw, PandaMojo, u do know that u can delete the center part of ur "Cunnington woods" ?
05:17:09  <PandaMojo> Yep, but as i said, I think i'll use it for shuttle service
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05:17:26  <mikk36> oh, ok :P
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05:25:56  <PandaMojo> Good thing I don't need signals on the extra exit stretches, I can convert those to bridges :)
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06:28:01  <PandaMojo> Trains 6, 7, and 8 are not lost :(
06:28:35  * PandaMojo bumps up the warning time
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06:32:07  <Wolf01> hi
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08:25:33  <CIA-2> tron * r6353 /trunk/ (21 files in 4 dirs):
08:25:33  <CIA-2> -Codechange: Make DestinationID a typedef of uin16, which is as large as any type of destinataion (StationID, DepotID, WaypointID) it can hold
08:25:33  <CIA-2> DestinationID being a union of these types is just hassle without benefit and cannot be handled correctly everywhere because of local lack of information
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09:01:34  <CIA-2> Darkvater * r6354 /website/screens.php: [Website] -Fix: Seems smarty and I misunderstood eachother. You can only clear a template-group if you specify so, just giving it the template-name does not cascade the clear_cache to all CACHE-ID's
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09:37:18  <Bjarni> incredible. In a pool with only two options, Born_Acorn managed to screw it up o_O
09:38:06  <Sacro> hehe
09:38:41  <Noldo> Bjarni: it's 50-60 chance
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09:41:42  <PandaMojo> Heh.
09:41:55  <Bjarni> finally I managed to get the screenshots in the right order. That silly forum got no sense of order. I had to edit the post several times because it flipped it between preview and the post
09:43:30  <Bjarni> and finally I had to upload a new version of each file and update the comments to make the flip back into the right order
09:44:13  <Sacro> hmm, if you eat 4 tubes of toothpaste you will dir
09:44:16  <Sacro> *die
09:45:21  <hylje> k
09:45:27  <hylje> so no more toothpaste for dinner?
09:45:37  <Kjetil> crap
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09:47:05  <Bjarni> <-- anyway new poll. This time I added more text to the options in the poll so now people should be able to figure it out
09:47:31  <XeryusTC> Bjarni read my reply :D
09:47:41  <Darkvater> Bjarni: haha nice going
09:47:59  <grimrc1> Sacro: do you read 'The People' or watch 'Sky News'?
09:48:42  <Sacro> grimrc1: yes...and err... yes
09:49:09  <grimrc1> coz that 4 toothpaste factoid was on Sky News just before, and they were reading The People
09:49:40  <Sacro> hehe
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09:49:47  <grimrc1> you got it from the paper then?
09:50:21  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: surely it depends on the size of the tube
09:50:51  <XeryusTC> why would you want to eat 4 tubes of toothpaste?
09:51:02  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: true
09:51:06  <Sacro> XeryusTC: to test the theory
09:51:23  <Prof_Frink> XeryusTC: s/eat/feed someone/ ;)
09:51:37  <XeryusTC> :D
09:52:01  <XeryusTC> Prof_Frink: why not just let the victim drink 120 cups of coffee then? :P
09:52:12  <grimrc1> Sacro: is it poisonous due to its fluoride content?
09:52:24  <Sacro> grimrc1: im thinking so
09:53:00  <grimrc1> you know, I've been doing a lot of reading about thyroids, and I heard fluoride used to be used to treat hyperthyroidism because it inhibits your thyroid (I'm hypo not hyper)
09:53:40  <grimrc1> and hypothyroidism is rife
09:53:52  <Sacro> hmm
09:54:23  <XeryusTC> what is a thyroid?
09:54:26  <grimrc1> and hypothyroidism sucks ass
09:55:13  <grimrc1> XeryusTC: it's a gland in your neck that secretes thyroid hormone, which controls how fast nearly every cell in your body works; you get sluggish when hypo and restless when hyper
09:55:50  <grimrc1> fluoride is like iodine I think; I think that's why it inhibits your thyroid (which depends highly on iodine)
09:56:10  <Prof_Frink> grimrc1: so that's how you overclock people?
09:56:16  <grimrc1> Prof_Frink: yeah lol
09:56:41  <grimrc1> I'm going to be doing some overclocking when I get hold of some thyroid hormone (finally!); though my clock is low already
09:56:55  <XeryusTC> :o
09:56:58  <grimrc1> doctor's are assholes about thyroid diseases ;o(
09:57:12  <Bjarni> <XeryusTC>	Bjarni read my reply :D <-- yeah, but I wrote poll... clearly a sign of your failure to read :P
09:57:15  * Bjarni hides
09:57:31  <XeryusTC> you better hide :P
09:57:44  <XeryusTC> everyone knows that there is a edit button :P
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09:58:47  <jez> hi
09:59:43  <grimrc1> lo
10:02:34  <Sacro> lo
10:03:28  <jez> Are any developers working on the patch to customize the face more easily?
10:03:35  <jez> I'd love to see that in the next version of OpenTTD
10:03:47  <Sacro> not afaik
10:04:44  <jez> :-(
10:05:37  <grimrc1> you mean something better than clicking 'new face' again & again?
10:05:53  <Sacro> grimrc1: yeah
10:06:00  <grimrc1> that would be useful
10:06:25  *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:06:41  <grimrc1> why do most of the women look like dykes?
10:07:26  <grimrc1> they only have one earring, or none at all!
10:07:34  <jez> latest i've seen on it is this thread:
10:07:40  <jez> that latest interface screenshot looks excellent
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10:08:25  <grimrc1> are you thinking about working on it jez?
10:08:57  <jez> depends on how easy it is.  i can code in C but havent worked on openTTD before
10:10:36  <grimrc1> probably not that easy and not that hard
10:12:37  <grimrc1> I see your post jez; was that face customizer real or faked in photoshop?
10:13:30  <grimrc1> has iNVERTED posted his work to flyspray?:
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10:19:15  <jez> not sure
10:19:17  <jez> i didnt make it
10:20:01  <jez> weird
10:20:14  <jez> i have a problem with 0.4.8; it doesn't seem to be automatically placing signals when i drag track out
10:20:39  <Sacro> i see no problem
10:20:52  <jez> am i missing something obvious?
10:21:57  <Sacro> probably :)
10:22:11  <jez> weird
10:22:14  <jez> it's just not doing it
10:22:25  <jez> and the patch is set to place them every4  tiles
10:22:27  <jez> :-((((
10:23:01  <Turski> MiniIN <3
10:23:03  <Darkvater> jez: then you should probably change the interval
10:25:34  <jez> why>?
10:26:14  <Darkvater> so it places them every 1 tile if you so desire
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10:27:14  <jez> no i dont mind every 4
10:27:21  <jez> it's not even placing them that often, not at all
10:30:42  <CIA-2> tron * r6355 /trunk/ (order_cmd.c station_cmd.c):
10:30:42  <CIA-2> -Fix: Go to hangar orders for aircraft could get spuriously removed when a road or rail depot got deleted (Darkvater and me)
10:30:42  <CIA-2> This bug is probably ages old
10:31:49  <Darkvater> Me myself and Irene
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10:34:08  <Altaran> hi
10:34:40  <Sacro> heya
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10:35:01  <Altaran> i've got problem with my openttd v0.4.8 running on gentoo
10:35:11  *** roboman is now known as roboboy
10:35:15  <Sacro> please state your problem
10:35:20  <Altaran> in year 1986 crash
10:35:37  <Altaran> Error: !String 0x5904 is invalid. Probably because an old version of the .lng file.
10:36:15  <Sacro> ooh, thats narsty
10:36:16  <Altaran> where can i find the newest lng file?
10:36:20  <Sacro> Darkvater: ping
10:36:29  <Sacro> Altaran: there isnt one
10:36:37  <Darkvater> pong
10:36:41  <Altaran> i can do it.
10:36:43  <Altaran> how?
10:36:54  <Sacro> Darkvater: <Altaran> Error: !String 0x5904 is invalid. Probably because an old version of the .lng file.
10:37:08  <Sacro> in 0.4.8
10:37:11  <Darkvater> thank you sacro but I think I can read back 3 lines
10:37:24  <Altaran> lol
10:37:25  <Altaran> :)
10:37:33  <Sacro> Darkvater: ah, i didnt know if you where IRC'ing from a pager
10:37:44  <Darkvater> :)
10:37:47  <Darkvater> Altaran: savegame?
10:38:06  <Altaran> i can share
10:38:07  <Altaran> ..
10:38:14  <Altaran> brb 3mins
10:41:12  <Altaran>
10:41:18  <Darkvater> config?
10:41:51  <Darkvater> and can you reproduce? which language? what were you doing at the time if the crash only occurs in certain circumstances?
10:41:54  <Altaran>
10:42:02  <Altaran> lang CZE
10:42:51  <Altaran> now it crashes when i shaping terrain
10:43:17  <Altaran> map 1024*1024 :D
10:43:18  <Tron_> what's CZE? czech?
10:43:21  <Altaran> yes
10:43:41  <Darkvater> you have mime-types set incorrectly :(
10:43:47  <Altaran> :/
10:44:26  <Darkvater> he 20KB/s
10:44:55  <Sacro> :| its opening it as a text file
10:45:32  <Darkvater> ugh people stop downloading as well....this is taking ages ;p
10:45:43  <Altaran> lol
10:46:10  <Altaran> 12:46:08.438977 IP > . ack 3964 win 16477
10:46:15  <Altaran> i know about all ;)
10:47:25  <Darkvater> so when does it exactly crash?
10:47:36  <Tron_> hm, 0x5904 is really far off
10:47:43  <Altaran> when i shaping land e.g.
10:48:05  <Tron_> always?
10:48:09  <Altaran> look i run openttd now
10:48:12  <Altaran> not always
10:48:14  <Darkvater> why doesn't it for me now?
10:48:21  <Altaran> load savegame now
10:48:28  <Altaran> you do same
10:48:36  <Altaran> and try something
10:48:46  <Darkvater> I am landscaping but nothing happens
10:49:02  <Altaran> it did sometimes :/
10:49:21  <Darkvater> Tron_: does it crash for yoU/
10:49:22  <Darkvater> ?
10:49:34  <Tron_> no
10:49:46  <Altaran> and i changing vehicles
10:49:52  <Altaran> ..
10:49:53  <Darkvater> ok Altaran
10:49:54  <Altaran> sending into depo
10:49:59  <Darkvater> write down EXACTLY
10:50:02  <Darkvater> what you are doing
10:50:05  <Altaran> OMG PLAYING
10:50:06  <Darkvater> which vehicle when
10:50:11  <Altaran> trains
10:50:21  <Altaran> older -> newest
10:50:23  <Altaran> ..
10:50:26  <Darkvater> for god's sake
10:50:33  <Darkvater> we are NOT psychic
10:50:43  <Altaran> im just plaing
10:50:48  <Altaran> and it crashes
10:50:51  <Altaran> now
10:50:57  <Altaran> and 1000 times ago
10:50:57  <Darkvater> oh yes NOW
10:50:59  <Darkvater> I get it
10:51:00  <Darkvater> *sigh*
10:51:02  <jez> ohh, you have to drag the SIGNALS separately
10:51:09  <jez> you cant get new track to be built with signals by default
10:51:18  <Darkvater> Altaran: load the game, press 'pause' immediately
10:51:35  <Altaran> yes
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10:51:39  <Darkvater> enable the cheat 'build in pause'
10:51:49  <Darkvater> now tell me exactly what TILE and what tool crashes
10:52:05  <Altaran> eh how?
10:52:11  <Darkvater> ctrl+alt+c
10:52:12  <Altaran> to enable chea?
10:52:38  <Altaran> yes
10:53:15  <Altaran> hey
10:53:22  <Altaran> i can enable this cheat?
10:53:26  <Altaran> cant
10:53:27  <Altaran> ..
10:53:44  <Altaran> ok
10:53:44  <Altaran> ..
10:54:43  <Altaran> now it crash
10:54:52  <Altaran> im destroing something
10:54:53  <Darkvater> ok, good
10:54:55  <Darkvater> what
10:54:57  <Darkvater> and where?
10:55:05  <Altaran> shaping terrain
10:55:09  <Darkvater> WHERE
10:55:13  <Altaran> everywhere
10:55:17  <Altaran> *anywhere
10:55:24  <Altaran> just try it
10:55:26  <Altaran> destroy
10:55:29  <Altaran> shape
10:55:33  <Darkvater> janonkov?
10:55:34  <Altaran> built tranin
10:55:50  <Darkvater> I am serieus I donnu what you are smoking but it doesn't happen
10:55:51  <Altaran> hurka nad vltavou
10:55:52  <Altaran> eg
10:56:00  <Altaran> try all destroy
10:56:04  <Altaran> then stape terain
10:56:17  <Altaran> build train
10:56:22  <Darkvater> nothing
10:56:41  <Altaran> altaran bin # ./openttd  Unknown string command character 3 Error: Tried to load non-existing sprite #155. Probable cause: Wrong/missing NewGRFs
10:56:46  <Altaran> look now this error
10:56:59  <Altaran> but its normaly emerged
10:57:08  <Darkvater> that is not the string error
10:57:22  <Altaran> altaran bin # ./openttd  Unknown string command character 3 Error: !String 0x5904 is invalid. Probably because an old version of the .lng file.
10:57:29  <Altaran> this is that string error
10:57:34  <Altaran> altaran bin # ./openttd  Segmentation fault
10:57:38  <Altaran> another error
10:57:43  <hylje> root?
10:57:44  <hylje> :E
10:57:48  <Altaran> triing
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10:57:51  <Altaran> in root
10:58:37  <Darkvater> I think you have a problem
10:58:46  <Altaran> :D
10:59:48  <Sacro> .me giggles
10:59:53  * Sacro even
11:00:10  <Darkvater> lol
11:00:15  <grimrc1> seen it on this channel
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11:01:05  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't get it :S
11:01:28  <Altaran> so can i do somethink?
11:01:44  <hylje> yep i linked it was it yesterday?
11:01:51  <Altaran> or playing 0.4.6 which doesnt crahes?
11:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should never play 0.4.6
11:02:16  <Altaran> 0.4.7?
11:02:24  <Altaran> i dont know, but older version
11:02:24  <Darkvater> well it doesn't crash here with 0.4.8
11:02:28  <Sacro> nightlies ftw
11:02:31  <Gonozal_VIII> nightly build
11:03:11  <Sacro> it has just occured to me, that OpenTTD might not be very easy for colourblind people
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11:03:38  <Gonozal_VIII> same with any other game
11:04:02  <grimrc1> they can use funky graphics drivers to changes the colours, or something
11:04:23  <grimrc1> or maybe get a braille terminal and use cacalib
11:05:02  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-162-114.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:05:26  <grimrc1> as seen in "How to do just about anything with a computer"
11:05:27  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-162-114.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:05:46  <Altaran> Darkvater: hm and what can i do??
11:06:10  <Sacro> oops
11:06:21  *** dp- [] has joined #openttd
11:06:40  <Darkvater> Altaran: donnu, try a nightly perhaps. Try without music/sound
11:06:48  <Darkvater> it is really not clear that the crashes are openttd's fault
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11:07:52  <Tron_> <Altaran> altaran bin # ./openttd  Unknown string command character 3 Error: Tried to load non-existing sprite #155. Probable cause: Wrong/missing NewGRFs  <--- This sprite is never used in an unmodified version of OpenTTD
11:07:53  <Gonozal_VIII> first thing i would try is to reinstall the game
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11:08:12  <Tron_> also the string command sequences are correct in an unmodified version of OpenTTD, too
11:08:25  <grimrc1> Altaran: have you tried running openttd from a terminal to see any non-fatal error messages?
11:08:43  <grimrc1> oh you have
11:10:09  <Darkvater> brb
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11:11:33  <Sacro> o_O
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11:43:38  <MeusH> fhi
11:43:57  <MeusH> hello Darkvater
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11:49:46  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6356 /trunk/ (aircraft_cmd.c roadveh_cmd.c ship_cmd.c train_cmd.c):
11:49:46  <CIA-2> -Fix: FS#263 planes come out of hangar and drive back into hangar
11:49:46  <CIA-2>  Now all vehicles are serviced when it's time for service and they are in a depot
11:49:46  <CIA-2>  This will avoid the goto depot order from ever showing up when in a depot
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11:52:07  <Darkvater> Bjarni: ?
11:52:51  <Bjarni> it's a fix for the bug where the planes left the hangar with goto hangar orders
11:53:09  <Darkvater> Bjarni: r6356, why not fix it in AircraftLeaveHangar ?
11:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh yeah... that bugged me since the TTO days ;)
11:53:28  <Darkvater> cause that is about the ONLY place this should be, not in a daily or whatever loop
11:54:12  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	Bjarni: r6356, why not fix it in AircraftLeaveHangar ? <-- because now I prevented it from getting the incorrect orders in the first place. Also it's checked last of all the checks
11:54:15  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:54:47  <Bjarni> and if it is only checked when leaving the depot and you click the vehicle, it will tell goto depot until it leaves
11:55:23  <Bjarni> and even though that could be considered a display bug only, it's still a bug
11:55:50  <Darkvater> so what is the purpose of VehicleServiceInDepot(v); in AircraftLeaveHangar?
11:56:34  <Bjarni> if it leaves say 5 days before next service, will still go to pick up passengers and then go back to the hangar
11:56:40  <Bjarni> it's needed to reset the counter
11:57:09  <Bjarni> the need for service counter is only reset when it's time for service when standing inside a depot
11:57:26  <Bjarni> not at every check
11:59:54  <Nigel> Bjarni, so that means, if i have a train in a depot for say 3 years, the last serviced date will be the one when it left the depot??
12:00:15  <grimrc1> why does StationBuildWndProc() use this?
12:00:17  <grimrc1> case WE_DESTROY:
12:00:17  <grimrc1> 		if (!WP(w,def_d).close) ResetObjectToPlace();
12:01:50  <Bjarni> Nigel: yes
12:02:00  <Nigel> brilliant!
12:02:18  <Nigel> thanks so much, that was kinda annoying at times
12:02:27  <grimrc1> two bugs with one shoe?
12:02:34  <Bjarni> that was fixed in revision 998
12:02:39  <Bjarni> old fix
12:03:02  <Bjarni> now I fixed that it would try to turn around and head for the depot even though it got service when leaving
12:03:25  <Nigel> yeah, i think thats what was happening with mine
12:03:31  *** CoRnJuLIOx [~vircuser@] has joined #openttd
12:03:59  <Sacro> :o no MPU-401 in vista
12:04:07  <Nigel> like new trains that where waiting a couple of 'years' they'd go out, and try and get to another depot
12:04:11  <Sacro> that means no music in TTD
12:04:18  <Nigel> Sacro, MPU-401?
12:04:33  <CoRnJuLIOx> i've got two iron ore mines and a steel mill separated by a large body of water. Is it possible to ship the ore to a dock and have a ship bring it to the mill on another island?
12:04:48  <Sacro> Nigel: MIDI standard
12:04:49  <Nigel> hmmm, i get sound in OpenTTD, last i checked TTD doesn't like vista at all
12:04:56  <Sacro> as is IPV4 over 1394 :(
12:05:28  <Bjarni> CoRnJuLIOx: yes, use the transfer and leave empty option
12:05:51  <CoRnJuLIOx> haha there is hope for me yet!
12:05:59  <Bjarni> in the orders
12:06:24  <Bjarni> some people have complained about bugs in the transfer function though
12:06:32  <Nigel> Sacro, never use 1394 anyway
12:06:37  <Bjarni> but it worked when I tried it
12:06:50  <Darkvater> Bjarni: last question about the commit. Why are you servicing them? They're serviced when they leave the depot
12:06:52  <Nigel> i mean, I never use it
12:06:57  <Bjarni> <Nigel>	Sacro, never use 1394 anyway <-- why not?
12:07:00  <Darkvater> got disced :(
12:07:48  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	Bjarni: last question about the commit. Why are you servicing them? They're serviced when they leave the depot <-- if I do not service them, they will get the goto depot orders, which would still be active when serviced when leaving
12:07:50  <CoRnJuLIOx> Bjarni: will any ship do?
12:08:07  <Bjarni> CoRnJuLIOx: take one, that can carry iron ore ;)
12:08:18  <CoRnJuLIOx> i c
12:08:20  <Darkvater> Bjarni: but you give it a return so they don't get the order
12:08:23  <Bjarni> an oil tanker is not the best option
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12:09:10  <Sacro> Nigel: i do, its quicker
12:09:18  <Sacro> 400MBps
12:09:36  <Nigel> Never used 1394, most likely won'th
12:09:56  <grimrc1> who do you guys connect to with 1394?
12:10:07  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	Bjarni: but you give it a return so they don't get the order <-- if I service them, it will not loop though all the checks each time, but return on one of the first ones. Saves time only to reach this check+service code once each 100 days or whatever the player sets it to
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12:10:13  <Sacro> grimrc1: external HDD. other systems
12:10:13  <Bjarni> makes it a bit faster
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12:10:42  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	who do you guys connect to with 1394? <-- computer to computer and computer to HDD
12:11:05  <grimrc1> do people use 1394 for point-to-point only?
12:11:15  <Sacro> grimrc1: no more than with other cables
12:11:24  <grimrc1> 1394 -> ethernet?
12:11:27  <Bjarni> faster than 100 Mbit ethernet and way faster than USB2 for HDDs
12:11:50  <Nigel> grimrc1,
12:11:54  <grimrc1> 1394 -> 1Gb ethernet would work
12:11:55  <Sacro> Bjarni: no, firewire is 400, USB2 is 480
12:11:57  <CoRnJuLIOx> Bjarni: when i transfer, do i place a lorry station next to the dock and transfer there?
12:12:02  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	do people use 1394 for point-to-point only? <-- for networking, I think so. For disks... it's possible to daisy chain or even use hubs
12:12:07  <hylje> Sacro: firewire has 800 standard as well
12:12:16  <Sacro> hylje: thats v2
12:13:12  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni: no, firewire is 400, USB2 is 480 <-- the firewire protocol is way more efficient for storage and large data transfers. It was designed with digital video in mind and is usually around 30% than USB
12:13:21  <Bjarni> USB got one hell of an overhead
12:13:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: yeah, cos its master - slave
12:13:37  <Sacro> whereas firewire isnt
12:14:24  <Bjarni> firewire also got a fixed speed where USB have to be able to switch to lower speed to be able to talk to say the mouse
12:14:31  <Bjarni> or keyboard
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12:15:37  <Nigel> I think both have their purposes, but i don't own any firewire devices atm, and i doubt i will in the upcoming year
12:16:09  <Bjarni> you cheat yourself if you consider using USB for hard disks
12:16:31  <Nigel> i don't even have an Ext HDD
12:16:33  <CoRnJuLIOx> question: when i transfer from the mines, do i place a lorry station next to the dock and transfer there?
12:16:34  <Bjarni> response time is also lower for firewire, specially when several devices are active
12:16:55  <Bjarni> CoRnJuLIOx: yeah, it needs to be a joined station so they share the stored goods
12:17:12  <Bjarni> Nigel: that's a valid excuse for not using firewire ;)
12:17:14  <CoRnJuLIOx> joined station?
12:17:30  <Bjarni> placing two stations next to each other will join them into one
12:17:43  <Nigel> Bjarni, of course it is
12:17:56  * Bjarni wonders how this newbie found this channel
12:18:45  <CoRnJuLIOx> the ship isn't pickin up the goods though
12:18:48  <Nigel> where as like i had to install a firewire card for my old school (for some reason the admins there know BS about computer admin) in the drama class room for the department's video camera
12:20:07  <Nigel> other werid thing was that the paid for some guy to courier it like 500m up a road :P
12:20:43  <Sacro> mmm, LUG meeting in 2.5 hours
12:21:04  <Nigel> now, how much do you get for carring a packet of mail 1 square in openttd? :P
12:21:13  * Sacro hopes they dont try and convert me to Linspire again...
12:21:23  <Nigel> Sacro, haha
12:21:48  <CoRnJuLIOx> LUG = Linux User Group?
12:22:01  <Nigel> CoRnJuLIOx, normally
12:23:34  <Nigel> i think you deserve a cookie!
12:24:42  <CoRnJuLIOx> mmmm....cookie
12:26:19  <Belugas_Gone> comments please :
12:26:25  <Darkvater> Bjarni: removing VehicleServiceInDepot() and only doing a return works just as well
12:26:34  <Belugas_Gone> i think it is nicely cleaned tis time :)
12:28:04  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: yes
12:28:14  <Sacro> Nigel: i cant belive it, i was the most linux'y guy there
12:28:32  <Sacro> apart from another guy, but he is currently running OSX
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12:30:17  <CoRnJuLIOx> can anyone tell me how to get the iron ore from the lorry station onto the ship?
12:30:36  <Belugas_Gone> I forgot this, of course
12:30:36  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: shovel
12:34:03  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	Bjarni: removing VehicleServiceInDepot() and only doing a return works just as well <-- it's slower because then it needs to go though all the tests each time. Now it only have to go though all the tests once every time the vehicle needs service
12:34:22  <Darkvater> not if you put it on top
12:34:34  <Darkvater> or even before a call to checkneedsservice()
12:34:38  <Darkvater> plus it is more correct
12:35:08  <Bjarni> checking if a train is in a depot needs to test each unit in the train...
12:35:13  <CoRnJuLIOx> gah hah! i got it :-)
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12:35:24  <Bjarni> not the fastest function you can find
12:35:40  <JohnUK89> Ello all :)
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12:36:07  <DyzDyzPL> hi all
12:36:26  <JohnUK89> DyzDyzPL: ello
12:37:02  <Darkvater> that's true
12:37:53  <Nigel> for someone reason i don't have a openttd.cfg file, at all
12:38:05  <Nigel> *some
12:38:15  <Bjarni> start the game and quit
12:38:19  <Bjarni> then you should have one
12:38:34  <Nigel> Bjarni, doesn't seem to happen
12:38:42  <Bjarni> check write permission
12:38:43  <Nigel> (i'm using MiniIN btw)
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12:39:05  <Nigel> Bjarni, i personally created an empty openttd.cfg to check that
12:39:22  <Bjarni> then I have no idea
12:39:40  <Bjarni> it worked for everybody else so far
12:39:46  <Bjarni> are you looking in the right dir?
12:39:50  <Nigel> haha, thats werid
12:39:53  * Sacro "aquires" Vista RC1 and WinFLP
12:39:57  <Bjarni> try to search your HD for openttd.cfg :P
12:40:01  <Nigel> it worked when i run it as administrator
12:40:07  <Bjarni> permission issue
12:40:15  <JohnUK89> /me isn't going to be using Vista at all
12:40:21  <JohnUK89> DAMN IRC CLIENT!!!
12:40:26  <JohnUK89> *kicks Uplink*
12:40:27  <JohnUK89> :@
12:40:42  <Nigel> Bjarni, my logged in user actually has write, i specifically added it
12:40:44  <Sacro> your IRC'ing through Uplink?
12:40:49  <JohnUK89> Yeah lol
12:40:50  <Bjarni> Sacro: Vista is codename for buggy OS with a prettier user interface
12:40:50  <Sacro> as in Introversion
12:40:54  <JohnUK89> Yep
12:41:01  <Wolf01> <- why lorries prefer the one above and only one or two go to the one below?
12:41:07  <Sacro> Bjarni: and Tiger, Leapard...
12:41:11  * Belugas_Gone goes back into real life
12:41:17  <JohnUK89> Leopard*
12:41:21  * Belugas_Gone salutes you all
12:41:27  <Bjarni> Sacro: name the bugs in Tiger
12:41:28  <Nigel> Bjarni, vista ain't really that bad
12:41:49  <JohnUK89> Nigel, yes it
12:42:03  <Sacro> Bjarni:
12:42:08  <JohnUK89> I know as a FORMER Vista user that it majorly sucks
12:42:09  * Bjarni never managed to crash Tiger
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12:43:33  <JohnUK89> I managed to crash Vista many a time, just trying to get multiple monitors working...
12:43:49  <Nigel> JohnUK89, i'm running Vista now
12:43:50  <PandaMojo> Considering it's a Beta I'm not suprised.
12:43:59  <Bjarni> Sacro: some apps needs an update... so what?
12:44:02  <CoRnJuLIOx> anyone here gonna spring for vista?
12:44:05  <JohnUK89> PandaMojo, Release Candidate now
12:44:09  <Nigel> I have been basically since the beta came out
12:44:13  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: moi
12:44:27  <JohnUK89> igel, I used Beta 2, and didn't like it one bit
12:44:31  <PandaMojo> Hmm.
12:44:33  <JohnUK89> igel*
12:44:36  <JohnUK89> Hmm
12:44:37  <CoRnJuLIOx> aren't there gonna be 6 different versions at release? which one are you gettin?
12:44:45  <Nigel> I'm going to be buying Vista
12:44:53  <PandaMojo> Wolf01: Road vehics using YAPF?
12:44:56  <JohnUK89> 'm not buying Vista
12:44:59  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: either Home Pro, or Ultimate
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12:45:21  <Wolf01> yes
12:45:23  <CoRnJuLIOx> the pc im on isnt vista-worthy just yet.
12:45:24  * Bjarni decides to take all the software designed for windows 95 and tries it on Vista
12:45:25  <Nigel> CoRnJuLIOx, Home Lite is really a non version, it's mainly for the poorer areas
12:45:44  <Bjarni> hey see, I found something that didn't work correctly without updating the software... vista is buggy
12:45:46  <PandaMojo> Must be something roin-out specific, I don't get that problem at my stations :-/
12:45:50  <Bjarni> Sacro: that's the level of that list
12:45:52  <CoRnJuLIOx> Home Lite = crippleware?
12:45:55  <JohnUK89> f MS force everything to go to Vista (which seems incredibly likely) I'm going to say "feck off" and stay with XP and Ubuntu
12:46:00  <Nigel> also, the Business Pro i think is going to be Contract only
12:46:19  <Nigel> (can't think of the program name for now)
12:46:26  <hylje> CoRnJuLIOx: everything but ultimate = crippleware
12:46:27  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: no not really
12:46:28  <JohnUK89>  Hmm, I have to put a space at the beginning of messages, this thing is cutting them out lol
12:46:41  <Nigel> I'm going with Ultimate though
12:47:00  <CoRnJuLIOx> i'm going with ubuntu....
12:47:03  <CoRnJuLIOx> and xp
12:47:11  <Nigel> they said that Vista will market for around the same price as XP now
12:47:26  <JohnUK89> For the first time in near on 10 years I won't be running the latest version of Windows when Vista comes out...
12:47:28  <Nigel> I believe they aren't going to market Home Lite in NZ either
12:47:40  <Sacro> CoRnJuLIOx: home basic doesnt have HDTV or DVD Authoring
12:47:47  <JohnUK89> And I don't honestly care, eye candy in the UI means nowt to me now
12:48:46  <Nigel> JohnUK89, i'm not buying it for the eye candy, and i'm not buying it for the "it's new, i'm so cool" i'm going to buy it because it works, and i like certain areas of the functionatity better
12:49:17  <JohnUK89> Nigel, well for me, XP  "works" so I'm sticking with that
12:49:18  <Nigel> hopefully they might do Vista Ultimate + Office 07 packs
12:49:18  <Sacro> Nigel: me too, that and DX10, symlnk ability, proper shell
12:49:41  <Nigel> then again, i'll be able to get both at Academic rates still
12:49:44  <JohnUK89> And Ubuntu "works" even more for me :)
12:50:08  <PandaMojo> I didn't upgrade to XP until my CDs scratched out and I found out it had better wireless integration.
12:50:39  <Nigel> I didn't upgrade to XP until i kinda decided that i needed it
12:50:49  <Sacro> Nigel: yeah, me too, hoping to start my Computer Science degree in a month or so
12:50:56  <Sacro> should get Visual Studio too
12:51:18  <grimrc1> Wolf01: what kind of truck stops are they??
12:51:27  <Nigel> hmm, and i just had an idea, everytime MS release a new OS, i enjoy in a short course, hence academic ID, and hence cheap os
12:51:37  <Nigel> *enroll
12:51:43  <Wolf01> roadstops
12:51:45  <JohnUK89> I upgraded to XP as soon as it came out...I've always had the latest version of Windows, as I said earlier...but as soon as Vista comes out I'll be abandoning that
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12:52:18  <Nigel> JohnUK89, and thats your right to decide
12:52:35  <Nigel> Sacro, i'm doing the other side of the field
12:52:43  <Nigel> Network Engineering
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12:53:05  <Wolf01> uhm, why the depot all button of a station send all the map vehicles to a depot instead of only the listed vehicles?
12:53:07  <JohnUK89> Yeah, and I don't plan to tell anyone else not to but it, fully their decisions, and I respect that...despite the fact it means they'll be at DX10 and I'll be stuck with 9 ;-)
12:53:48  <Nigel> JohnUK89, heh
12:54:16  <JohnUK89> But I don't play any DX9 games as it is...they're all DX8
12:54:27  <Nigel> one of the reasons that i like vista, is that i like the extras in IE7
12:54:43  <JohnUK89> ah, I'm a fan of Opera myself
12:54:48  <hylje> opera is win
12:55:06  <Nigel> like, i'm not really an RSS man, but i love the fact that my subscribed feeds are basically everywhere
12:55:34  <Nigel> I can read them in Outlook, i can read them in the sidebar, etc, and i only need to retrieve it once
12:55:36  <Sacro> Nigel: first... sign onto the dole. so the course is free! and you can claim free eyetests and medication and stuff
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12:55:52  <Nigel> Sacro, i'm already in my course
12:55:59  <grimrc1> Sacro: seriously!?!
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12:56:11  <Nigel> I graduate next year sometime
12:56:14  <Darkvater> how long have I been out?
12:56:21  <Bjarni> bah. There is a guy on the forum telling that he found a bug in the mass goto depot button in the station list. I tested it and replied that I could not find it and that it appears to work just fine. Then he replies with the additional info that he used a 200 revision old miniIN and not my code >_<
12:56:28  <JohnUK89> Hmm I really spend too much time in IRC
12:56:29  <Darkvater> damn crappy university connection seems the whole thing died
12:56:32  <Bjarni> talk about waste of time
12:56:48  <Bjarni> [14:45] 	<--	Darkvater has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
12:57:11  <JohnUK89> Hmm I can't see the time from screen says July
12:57:42  <Darkvater> stupid users
12:57:50  <Nigel> Sacro, thanks for the idea though
12:58:29  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	damn crappy university connection seems the whole thing died <-- I tend to get the same problems with Wifi at uni, so I plug into the free ethernet outlets and get "wired wireless" (those outlets connects to the same network)... then it works great
12:58:36  <Nigel> but yeah, only got a tad more programming to do, then i'm doing RHCT, couple of internal things, MSCA and CCNA then i graduate
12:58:46  <Bjarni> and with higher bandwidth than the hotspots
12:58:54  <Nigel> Bjarni, nice one
12:59:22  <Bjarni> the tradeoff is that I need to bring a cable though
12:59:38  <Nigel> I use the hotspots at starbucks or the train station sometimes, 240kB/sec which ain't bad for NZ i guess
13:00:22  <Nigel> hardly ever more than one person using the hotspot at the time
13:00:26  <hylje> srsly
13:00:40  <Sacro> Nigel: id love to do RHCT, or MSCE, MSCDBA
13:00:41  <hylje> miniin got a patch to increase land value?
13:00:54  <Bjarni> when I plug into the wall at uni, I get 100 mbit/s all the way to the internet. The actual internet connection got higher bandwidth than that
13:00:55  <Nigel> Sacro, move to NZ
13:01:09  <hylje> its fun to have a 10k city where demolishing a single building costs 500 thousand £
13:01:15  <Nigel> 9k NZD for a 1 year diploma
13:01:32  <Sacro> Nigel: i have been thinking about going to NZ after my degree
13:01:43  <Nigel> A+, Net+, RHCT OR MSCA, CCNA
13:01:47  <Nigel> but i'm doing both
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13:02:09  <Sacro> and thats 9k NZD?
13:02:33  <Nigel> well, the RHCT was an extra 2k i think, but i got a 2k Scholarship
13:03:05  <Darkvater> Bjarni: nice comment by Loop in the poll thread
13:03:16  <Nigel> In fact, i'm still waiting for RHCT to be added to my student loan, i can't do it till it's paid for
13:06:09  <Bjarni> Darkvater: yeah.. it got me thinking if we should use the 3rd option
13:06:31  <Darkvater> I would call it 1.5 ;)
13:06:45  <Bjarni> :)
13:07:13  <Darkvater> I have nothing against that as long as the string stays one colour
13:07:48  <Nigel> Sacro, anyway, 1am, and i need sleep
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13:09:58  <Sacro> Nigel: night mate
13:10:04  <Bjarni> I started to think if we should make string colour codes, so we got say green for not stopping at all (say waypoints and stations used as waypoints), blue for normal stops, some other for full load (long stop), orange for player requested stops and red for breakdowns/crashes
13:10:10  <Bjarni> or something like that
13:10:42  <Bjarni> then it will be really quick to tell what the vehicles are doing
13:11:09  <grimrc1> I like green for go definitely
13:11:14  <grimrc1> and red for stop stop
13:11:34  <Bjarni> red is error = crash or breakdown
13:11:43  <grimrc1> depot stop?
13:12:14  <Bjarni> depot stop should be orange as it's user requested
13:12:31  <grimrc1> you don't want too many confusing colours thouh
13:12:40  <Bjarni> red= the user can't order it to move right away. Orange= stopping on user request and that order can be cancelled
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13:12:57  <grimrc1> most important information to convey: whether the vehicle will continue after reaching destination
13:13:30  <Darkvater> what is it with you and colours?
13:13:30  <grimrc1> yeah I like your red, but not your orange
13:13:48  <grimrc1> orange=vehicle will fully stop at destination and green=vehicle will continue orders
13:13:54  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I'm too lazy to read :P
13:14:03  <Darkvater> o_O
13:14:25  <grimrc1> aren't we going to cater for dyslexics?  are you racialist or something?
13:14:26  <Bjarni> actually it's to improve a quick overview
13:14:40  <grimrc1> Bjarni: do you prefer my orange or yours?
13:14:43  <Darkvater> I would kill dyslexians if I saw any
13:14:50  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	aren't we going to cater for dyslexics?  are you racialist or something? <-- it's Darkvater... Don't ask
13:15:07  <Bjarni> you may not want to know the answer
13:15:08  <JohnUK89> arkvater, a lot of my friends are dyslexic, so shhh :P
13:15:19  <JohnUK89>  Darkvater*
13:15:25  <JohnUK89> *kicks Uplink once again*
13:15:25  <Darkvater> good thing I don't know them then
13:15:35  <grimrc1> Bjarni: well we're nearly saying the same thing; I'd included non-user specified full stops as orange
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13:15:51  <grimrc1> Bjarni: like auto-replace should be orange too
13:16:06  <Bjarni> autoreplace should be orange?
13:16:09  <Bjarni> why?
13:16:32  <grimrc1> Bjarni: because green and red are inappropriate; the vehicle will be stopping fully; although a new one will take over the orders
13:17:12  <Bjarni> why even do anything about autoreplace. You want a new string saying (heading for {DEPOT} for autoreplace"?
13:17:37  <Darkvater> there is no such thing
13:17:38  <grimrc1> what if a vehicle goes for autoreplace and then just sits there because you've run out of money?
13:17:48  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I said NEW string
13:18:00  <Darkvater> if a vehicle needs to go to service it will ENTER the next depot irrespective of its orders
13:18:03  <Bjarni> grimrc1: then it leaves and will return later
13:18:18  <Darkvater> with autoreplace it will continue to service stations, etc, until it enters a depot and gets autoreplaced
13:18:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni: right?
13:18:34  <Bjarni> yeah
13:18:51  <Darkvater> so giving it a colours if #1 futile and #2 confusing
13:18:52  <Bjarni> any failures to do this would be considered bugs
13:19:05  <Darkvater> s/if/is/gi
13:19:12  <Bjarni> I don't want special autoreplace colours
13:19:14  <CoRnJuLIOx> good night all
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13:19:46  <grimrc1> giving colours is #1 sensible 2# useful
13:19:50  <Bjarni> they might look cool, but it's too much work AND totally unneeded
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13:20:11  <Bjarni> also the code for such a thing is likely to be messy
13:20:23  <grimrc1> any colours at all?
13:20:41  <Darkvater> grimrc1: in the case of autoreplace it is not as I just shown above
13:20:45  <Bjarni> and/or noteworthy slower than the current vehicle window string drawing
13:21:18  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	any colours at all? <-- no special string or colour for autoreplace. The window don't know if the vehicle is going to be autoreplaced
13:21:27  <Bjarni> it's as simple as that
13:21:30  <grimrc1> ohhh
13:21:37  <Bjarni> and we should not make code to tell that to the window
13:22:00  <grimrc1> yeah I know - you should *bah bumm tschhhhh*
13:22:04  <grimrc1> heh
13:22:12  <grimrc1> just kidding - I agrree
13:23:39  <JohnUK89> You have to agree, Bjarni would kick you if you didn't :P
13:25:23  <JohnUK89> Because Bjarni is evil like that :)
13:26:53  <grimrc1> I've fixed this bug (small patch) - check it out:
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13:29:43  <Bjarni> <JohnUK89>	You have to agree, Bjarni would kick you if you didn't :P <-- actually he had a valid opinion based on how he thought the code worked. He was told how it actually works and then he agrees with me
13:29:50  <Bjarni> I see no hostile actions there
13:29:57  <Bjarni> no need to even talk about kicking people
13:30:33  <Bjarni> bbl
13:30:54  <Darkvater> grimrc1: ?
13:31:09  <Darkvater> grimrc1: you do not set the highlight tile at all
13:31:13  <Darkvater> +		else
13:31:13  <Darkvater> +			SetTileSelectBigSize(0, 0, 0, 0);
13:31:16  <Darkvater> this is bogus
13:31:25  <grimrc1> oh I've just realised a problem
13:31:51  <grimrc1> no those functions depend on tilehighlight data
13:32:01  <grimrc1> check out the if || || ||
13:32:17  <Darkvater> doesn't matter, you still don't set the highlighting
13:33:25  <grimrc1> I just wrote that up quickly coz the patch is self-explanatory; SetTileBigSize does change thd
13:33:58  <grimrc1> the docks one isn't working properly though; I'm looking at it now
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13:56:37  <grimrc1> I've corrected the last patch.  There's a deficiency in the game where _thd.offs.* is not stored when switching station types (for example), unlike most _thd data which has a buffer for new settings - this isn't a problem in openttd at the moment; the bug is corrected though
13:59:14  <grimrc1> the bug being, switching from station building mode (with catchment area on) to another placement mode (such as bulldozer) using keyboard shortcuts leaves the catchment area behind
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14:03:51  <grimrc1> anyone interested in the bugfix?
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14:16:26  <Tron> i have an arctic map without any refineries here
14:16:34  <Tron> seems to be a bug
14:16:37  <Tron> or very bad luck
14:20:28  <grimrc1> did that 'some/all new refineries spawn without a station component (so cannot dock there)' bug get fixed?  probably a while ago
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14:29:02  <grimrc1> anybody interested in my patches?  I've got 6 on flyspray that seem decent
14:29:39  <hylje> ?
14:30:11  <Darkvater> grimrc1: just a question: why not backup offs? and fix it for all
14:30:23  <Darkvater> I am sure there are some other cases where the thd gets left behind
14:30:29  <grimrc1> Darkvater: because it works without backing up offs
14:30:48  <Darkvater> the SetTileHighLight(0,0,0,0) is really hideous
14:31:36  <grimrc1> that's how the docks gui does it, so I thought I'd clone it
14:32:21  <grimrc1> SetTileSelectBigSize(0, 0, 0, 0)
14:32:30  <Darkvater> that doesn't mean it's good
14:32:37  <Darkvater> cause neither do road and airport do it
14:32:38  <grimrc1> yeah true; I am wondering now
14:32:51  <grimrc1> especially with the volatile offs
14:33:19  <grimrc1> might be racy - they could clear before dirty blocks are cleaned
14:33:28  <grimrc1> that's what went wrong in my 1st patch
14:34:08  <grimrc1> I think it should be removed actually
14:34:58  <grimrc1> coz it's pointless atm
14:38:00  <grimrc1> I'm testing without them both now
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14:40:36  <grimrc1> yep works without fine
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14:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> <hylje> miniin got a patch to increase land value? <- i think it's the 'Advanced Town Handling' patch
14:48:19  <hylje> k
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14:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't know what it's actually doing
14:49:06  <grimrc1> somebody's asked me on the forum if there's a way to get openttd to work as a screensaver in Windows; does the Windows version use SDL?  the way I got it to work as a screensaver under Linux was to make a wrapper-script and pass an environment variable to Openttd/SDL to tell it which window to draw on (the virtual root window) and also to apply my patch (on flyspray) to optionally stop openttd GUI spawning; would it be hard
14:49:06  <grimrc1>  to make openttd a *Windows* screensaver?
14:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> the window version does not use SDL
14:49:58  <Darkvater> it can use SDL but doesn't
14:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i think you can compile it with SDL
14:50:32  <Darkvater> -WITH_SDL :)
14:50:35  <Darkvater> then -v sdl
14:50:56  <grimrc1> oh cool; but even if you use SDL, I don't see how SDL_WINDOW environment variable would work
14:51:13  <grimrc1> I don't know a lot about Windows screensavers
14:53:12  <grimrc1> I'll tell him about SDL anyway
14:57:34  <hylje> windows screensavers are .exe files
14:57:39  <hylje> or can be
14:57:57  <hylje> so if you make ottd just start up and do stuff, rename it to .scr
14:58:43  <Darkvater> grimrc1: see, that's a much better patch
14:59:26  <grimrc1> true; writing decent patches is only part of my concerning; tracking down the bugs in unfamiliar source is where I'm trying to add value
14:59:53  <Darkvater> the good part of this patch, that all the other settilebigsize(0000) can be removed now
15:00:27  <grimrc1> I posted such a patch moments ago
15:00:44  <grimrc1> on your suggestion
15:00:53  <Darkvater> instead of just adding a kludge-copy to station_gui.c
15:01:07  <Darkvater> for which I can't blame you since you only followed established behaviour of dock-gui
15:01:22  <grimrc1> rail_gui.c - yep; at first I thought it would help (playing around); then I forgot about it
15:01:32  <Darkvater> well rail gui :)
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15:02:34  <Darkvater> he, dominik did this
15:04:37  <grimrc1> who's dominik?
15:04:53  <Bjarni> :)
15:04:56  <Bjarni> he left
15:04:59  <Bjarni> ages ago
15:05:07  <grimrc1> why?
15:05:10  <JohnUK89> Ello again :)
15:05:23  <grimrc1> I think I read his bio on the wiki actually
15:07:15  <Bjarni> well
15:07:20  <Bjarni> he coded stuff in 2004
15:07:31  <Bjarni> like drag'n'drop stuff
15:07:33  <Bjarni> and some gui stuff
15:07:58  <Bjarni> <grimrc1>	why? <-- ask him, not me :P
15:08:21  <grimrc1> I don't think I'll see him anyway
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15:11:44  <grimrc1> hah that's funny; this guy joined the forum to post to me screensaver topic; it's not all-bad then
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15:25:11  <Bjarni> <-- comments?
15:25:23  <Bjarni> is this patch worth keep working on?
15:27:11  <Bjarni> anybody here?
15:27:52  <Darkvater> ugh
15:27:59  * Darkvater turns away in disgust
15:28:28  <Bjarni> yeah, it didn't turn out quite like I expected it :(
15:28:50  <Darkvater> the problem is, the title-bar is fubarred and even then the speed doesn't fit
15:28:55  <Bjarni> but I would like to move the speed out of the text string
15:28:56  <Darkvater> (with default window size)
15:29:52  <Bjarni> my idea was kind of killed due to km/h... I was thinking of just the number when I started this
15:30:51  <Bjarni> I don't see anywhere else to place it though
15:30:58  <Bjarni> so I'm open for ideas
15:31:01  <Darkvater> well where would you put it?
15:31:40  <Darkvater> you can also turn off the showing of speed ;)
15:31:58  <Bjarni> I don't want that :P
15:32:15  <Bjarni> hmm
15:32:20  <Bjarni> new idea
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15:32:47  <Bjarni> make the window narrower and a bit taller and make all the icons horizontal. That would leave room right of the buttons
15:33:48  <Darkvater> you do not want to change a familiar interface imho
15:33:52  <Darkvater> for such minor things
15:35:19  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
15:35:22  <Bjarni> the thing is that you will not be able to see the speed if the heading for line actually had a station name in it

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