Log for #openttd on 2nd October 2006:
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00:28:49  <CIA-2> belugas * r6612 /trunk/ (8 files):
00:28:49  <CIA-2> -Codechange: Use accessors for hidden_state.
00:28:49  <CIA-2> Another step toward merging XTDwidget.
00:28:49  <CIA-2> The only two files not converted (window.h and widget.c) will be done at the very last commit)
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06:04:52  <sjr> Hey
06:04:58  <sjr> I'm having a problem with OpenTTD
06:05:10  <sjr> basically trains don't seem to be unloading and loading properly
06:05:20  <sjr> this is a save game from probably an earlier version
06:07:35  <sjr> Hmmmm actually
06:07:41  <sjr> what is transfer
06:07:46  <sjr> and how does it differ from unload
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06:15:31  <sjr> ugh
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06:15:36  <sjr> Damn TTD Patch non stop handling
06:15:37  <sjr> ugh
06:20:19  <peter1138> disable it? :p
06:21:22  <peter1138> ahh. lovely internet...
06:21:25  <peter1138> Fetched 3B in 46s (0B/s)
06:21:40  <peter1138> Fetched 40.1MB in 52s (758kB/s)
06:25:47  <XeryusTC> good for you
06:28:23  <PandaMojo> sjr: Transfer orders are used for feeder systems:,_setting_up_feeder_systems
06:28:44  <sjr> I don't undestard what a feeder system is as opposed to using unload?
06:28:48  <sjr> whichi is what I was doing
06:28:57  <PandaMojo> Unload will sell the goods if the station accepts them.
06:29:09  <PandaMojo> Unload + transfer just drops them off for rerouting.
06:29:17  <PandaMojo> (e.g. pick up by another train)
06:29:57  <PandaMojo> Transfer & Full Load + Transfer avoid unloading goods if the station accepts them as well
06:30:06  <PandaMojo> (Well, Full Load + Transfer is bugged last I checked)
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06:31:17  <Gorre`> whee
06:31:27  <PandaMojo> (Mmm, actually it might be "Full Load" in general @ accepting station of transfered goods, I froget exactly, but the bug report is here:
06:31:51  <PandaMojo> .seen Celestar
06:31:54  <PandaMojo> ,seen Celestar
06:31:59  <PandaMojo> !seen Celestar
06:32:01  <_42_> PandaMojo, Celestar ( was last seen quitting #openttd 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours 23 minutes ago (05.09. 11:08) stating "Quit: leaving" after spending 37 minutes there.
06:32:04  <PandaMojo> There we go :D
06:32:34  <PandaMojo> 3 weeks ago?  Isn't he supposed to be on vacation like now?
06:37:58  <peter1138> hmm, planespeed 4 is... fast
06:38:09  <peter1138> and the planes make loads more money
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07:17:22  <Gorre`> (I feel ashamed of myself, but Im unable to take screenshot of latest nightly's start menu while Im in fullscreen (tried ctrl-s as well as an old good printscreen button))
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08:02:42  <peter1138> that's because you can't
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08:05:52  <Gorre`> that's a bit sad
08:10:14  <CIA-2> miham * r6613 /trunk/lang/ (german.txt portuguese.txt unfinished/ukrainian.txt):
08:10:14  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-02 10:09:31
08:10:14  <CIA-2> german - 31 fixed by Neonox (31)
08:10:14  <CIA-2> portuguese - 40 fixed by supra90 (40)
08:10:14  <CIA-2> ukrainian - 68 fixed by znikoz (68)
08:12:28  <peter1138> more updates
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08:41:31  <CIA-2> bjarni * r6614 /trunk/vehicle_gui.c: -Fix: added check to see if a newly opened refit window is different from NULL before assigning data to it
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08:44:24  <peter1138> Bjarni: that was a horrible commit
08:44:30  <peter1138> if (w == NULL) return;
08:44:34  <peter1138> would've been much smaller
08:45:29  <Noldo> are you implying that revision numbers don't grow in trees?
08:46:10  <peter1138> no, i'm implying that indenting a whole block of code when it's unnecessary is... er... unnecessary
08:48:04  <Bjarni> well, all other windows do if (w != NULL), so I made it this way to make it consistent
08:48:58  <Bjarni> but maybe we should do it the other way everywhere, at least when we are changing the code anyway
08:49:12  <peter1138> well, it's done now, so no matter
08:49:27  <peter1138> but please remember, if there's a way to avoid indenting, use it :)
08:49:29  <peter1138> oh
08:49:33  <peter1138> as long as it doesn't add gotos :)
08:49:41  <Bjarni> :p
08:50:19  <DaleStan> But gotos are fun!
08:50:54  <peter1138> you're sacked
08:52:15  * SimonRC sees a terrible pun in the above conversation, and wonders if it was deliberate:
08:52:22  <SimonRC> "are you implying that revision numbers don't grow in trees?"~
08:52:27  <SimonRC> oops
08:52:39  <SimonRC> "< Noldo> are you implying that revision numbers don't grow in trees?"
08:52:43  <SimonRC> hehehe
08:55:19  <peter1138> ...
08:59:30  <eleusis> :|
09:03:41  <peter1138> well, i don't see it ;p
09:03:51  * SimonRC explains
09:04:33  <SimonRC> to "not grow on trees" is a British phrase meaning "not in large supply"
09:05:13  <Noldo> that was intended
09:05:32  <SimonRC> ... in which case Noldo would be suggesting that we would run out of revision numbers,
09:05:47  <Noldo> yes!
09:05:51  <peter1138> wasn't that the whole point?
09:05:55  <Noldo> yes!
09:06:01  <SimonRC> oh
09:06:03  <peter1138> and of course, wasn't a pun
09:06:04  <SimonRC> ah
09:07:02  <SimonRC> I was confused by you saying "in" rather than "on", which made me think you were refferring to our revision numbering policy.
09:07:05  <SimonRC> :-S
09:07:07  <SimonRC> hmm
09:07:35  <Noldo> that's just a product of my imperfect English
09:08:01  <SimonRC> ah, ok
09:08:53  <Noldo> my parents have little book that has similar phrases in Finnish and English and their direct translations in the other language
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09:11:00  <SimonRC> Noldo: heh
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09:15:44  <Noldo> that one isn't one of them as it is almost directly translatable
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09:44:44  <peter1138> bah, i can't get brianetta's autopilot to work :(
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10:08:17  <peter1138> where's brianetta when you need him...
10:08:21  <peter1138> or some other tcl person...
10:08:27  <peter1138> can't read "::max_companies": no such variable
10:08:50  <Sacro> peter1138: i got him on msn, message forwarded
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10:09:17  <peter1138> oh, hello Brianetta :)
10:09:22  <Brianetta> peter1138: Some pillock decided to add (or remove) a space from the string
10:09:36  <peter1138> hmm?
10:09:47  <Brianetta> Somewhere between 0.4.8 and trunk
10:09:54  <Sacro> svn blame :p
10:09:56  <peter1138> ah, autopilot is for 0.4.8? :(
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10:10:06  <Brianetta> It's *supposed* to be for both
10:10:12  <peter1138> which string? heh
10:10:15  <Brianetta> anyway, you probably need a more recent one
10:10:24  <Brianetta> output from server_status command
10:10:39  <Brianetta> You want the SVN version?
10:10:45  <peter1138> please
10:10:56  <eleusis> autopilot?
10:11:09  <Sacro> eleusis: morning
10:11:14  <Brianetta> DCC
10:11:24  <Brianetta> I can send the rest, if you like
10:11:25  <eleusis> afternoon Sacro
10:12:14  * Brianetta fires away anyway
10:12:30  <Brianetta> w00t (-:
10:13:11  <peter1138> that file doesn't work :(
10:13:23  <Brianetta> bollocks
10:13:24  <peter1138> ah, more files, heh
10:13:28  <peter1138> lemme copy the rest
10:13:32  <eleusis> md5sum :P
10:13:37  <Brianetta> I can't see that helping
10:15:09  <peter1138> still does the same
10:15:23  <Brianetta> Line 171
10:15:33  <Brianetta> and 174
10:15:45  <Brianetta> The strings in there need to match the output from server_info
10:16:01  <Brianetta> Unfortunately, somebody committed a change at some point
10:16:05  <Brianetta> fairly recently
10:16:39  <Brianetta> You can *foce* it to behave
10:16:43  <Brianetta> force
10:17:06  <peter1138> can scan not accept a wildcard
10:17:12  <Brianetta> It does
10:17:14  <hylje> regexp!
10:17:25  <Brianetta> scan is complicated and I am looking at an alternative
10:17:33  <Brianetta> indeed, hylje
10:19:00  <Brianetta> peter1138: Workaround, in [network] specify max_companies=8
10:19:16  <Brianetta> It's a pisser, but na ja
10:19:58  <peter1138> it is
10:20:21  <peter1138> oh
10:20:23  <peter1138> hmm
10:20:51  <peter1138> doesn't affect it
10:20:57  <Sacro> hmmm :\ my right eye seems to be seeing a lot less red than the left
10:21:13  <Brianetta> Sacro: Sun shining on it?
10:21:39  <Sacro> Brianetta: no
10:22:19  <Brianetta> peter1138: Looks to me like the output from server_info in 0.4.8 and trunk is actually the same
10:22:24  <Brianetta> which is weird as heck
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10:22:46  <Brianetta> because the same script reads it fine from 0.4.8's dedi server
10:22:48  <Brianetta> but not trunk
10:23:06  <hylje> :s
10:23:13  <Brianetta> It might be being confused by the TGP map generation - the timeout could easily be being exceeded
10:23:30  <Sacro> isnt it a preexisting save?
10:24:17  <peter1138> it's break in autopilot-lib
10:24:21  <peter1138> line 135
10:24:26  <peter1138> hmm
10:24:37  <peter1138> i don't know anything about tcl :(
10:24:41  <peter1138> or maybe that's :)
10:25:13  <Brianetta> yes, it's a function in lib that dies because the variable doesn't exist
10:25:30  <peter1138> yeah
10:25:31  <peter1138> ok
10:25:40  <Brianetta> I have actually been hunting this bug for some time
10:30:24  <Brianetta> damnit, it's working for me
10:30:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: What's your platform?
10:30:35  <peter1138> er, linux?
10:30:43  <Brianetta> well, good, it's not that bug
10:31:07  <Brianetta> I can't replicate this bug today
10:31:21  <Brianetta> and I'm removing the additional lines that openttd adds to the config each time
10:31:36  <peter1138> lines?
10:31:42  <Brianetta> max_companies = 8
10:31:42  <Brianetta> max_clients = 10
10:31:42  <Brianetta> max_spectators = 10
10:32:01  <Brianetta> Since trunk now actually supports these, it's written to config
10:32:14  <Brianetta> autopilot implements it for 0.4.8
10:33:30  <peter1138> the regexp isn't matching. hmm.
10:34:02  <Brianetta> what does server_info produce for you?
10:34:34  <peter1138> Current/maximum clients:     0/10
10:34:34  <peter1138> Current/maximum companies:   0/ 8
10:34:34  <peter1138> Current/maximum spectators:  0/10
10:34:55  <Brianetta> hmmm
10:34:59  <Brianetta> zeros
10:35:07  <Brianetta> that's not particularly useful
10:35:20  * Bjarni just managed to get a train to go to a depots in the orders and refit
10:35:21  <Brianetta> since it's the same as mine
10:35:38  <Bjarni> now it's carrying one cargo one way and another one the other way without interaction from the player
10:35:39  <Bjarni> :D
10:36:03  <Brianetta> Bjarni: You need it to go to depot and grab new wagons
10:36:07  <Bjarni> it's full of known issues though, like what it refits to is not displayed anywhere
10:36:49  <Bjarni> Brianetta: how would you like that to work?
10:37:01  <Brianetta> Bjarni: First, I'd like timetables
10:37:12  <Brianetta> as I described them in "suggestions"
10:37:21  <Bjarni> URL?
10:37:22  <Noldo> Brianetta: link?
10:37:32  <Brianetta> I don't know, it was weeks ago
10:37:34  <Brianetta> hang on
10:37:34  <peter1138> how do you output what the currently matched line is?
10:37:49  <Brianetta> $expect_out(0,string) contains it
10:38:03  <Brianetta> puts $expect_out(0,string)
10:38:05  <Bjarni> how can it be that I code something people have requested for ages and all I get is "code this as well" o_O
10:38:19  <Brianetta> Bjarni: That's not something I ever requested (:
10:38:27  <hylje> you didnt code it fast enough
10:38:32  <Brianetta> I deem it unrealistic in the extreme
10:39:04  <Bjarni> carrying coal one way, goto depot and refit to iron to carry something the other way?
10:39:10  <Bjarni> where is the unrealistic in that?
10:39:17  <peter1138> Bjarni: code automatic detaching etc...
10:39:22  <peter1138> and use of shunters ;)
10:39:32  <peter1138> and big yards
10:39:51  <Sacro> Bjarni: you got it working? whoo :)
10:40:00  <Bjarni> now we should set realistic goals compared to how to code it :P
10:40:32  <Sacro> can it be made to refit in a station~?
10:40:35  <hylje> realistically sized yards
10:40:41  <Bjarni> Sacro: yeah, but it's not ready yet. It's a sure thing to desync in multiplayer, it needs more GUI stuff, it only works for trains and some other stuff
10:40:48  <hylje> so if you got a hueg train
10:40:55  <hylje> you must have a hueg depot
10:40:55  <Bjarni> yeah as in I got it to work
10:41:02  <Bjarni> in depots only
10:41:05  <Bjarni> not at stations
10:41:19  <Bjarni> I don't plan to get it to work at stations anytime soon
10:41:56  <Bjarni> hylje: yeah, well, that's kind of out of scope for this patch ;)
10:42:15  <hylje> :p
10:42:31  <hylje> and implement rail maintenance while youre at it
10:42:55  * Bjarni sets hylje to ignore
10:43:08  <hylje> :D
10:43:26  <Brianetta> Bjarni: You're discouragin mixed consists ):
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10:45:54  <Bjarni> 	<Brianetta>	Bjarni: You're discouragin mixed consists ): <-- no I'm not. You select this feature. You can decide not to use it and then you don't have to do anything
10:46:01  <Bjarni> default is no refit
10:46:02  <peter1138> Brianetta: hmm
10:46:14  <peter1138> Brianetta: ottd isn't seeing any commands, afaict
10:46:22  <Brianetta> Bjarni: People will use your feature because they can stuff more into a shorter train
10:46:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: Seeing?
10:47:09  <Bjarni> yeah. In real life they will do the same if the wagons are somewhat compatible, like refitable
10:47:48  <peter1138> not responding to it
10:47:50  <peter1138> or something
10:47:52  <Bjarni> they built real life freight wagons that's able to refit in like 5 minutes and with (AFAIK) just one person doing it
10:48:14  <peter1138> need to snoop on the stream,heh
10:48:55  <Bjarni> and I don't mean like washing out remains of grain or coal or something like that, but really refitting for say cars, making two rows on top of each other and so on
10:50:40  <Bjarni> good, now cost animation is added (you didn't think you would get this for free, did you?)
10:50:41  <Bjarni> :p
10:51:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: we almost did with the last one :p
10:51:26  <Bjarni> what last one?
10:52:01  <Sacro> didn't you do some depot/autoreplace stuff and that started off free
10:52:12  <Bjarni> autoreplace once took 3 times as much as it should
10:52:27  <Brianetta> Ican't find the post );
10:52:27  <Sacro> i remember that, it almost killed my company
10:52:37  <Sacro> Brianetta: check your letterbox?
10:52:41  <hylje> evil bjarni
10:52:53  <Bjarni> ohh, autoreplace everything in depots
10:53:11  <Bjarni> yes, that was free... for like 5 minutes and was never committed in the free version
10:53:40  <Bjarni> that was actually caused by... newgrf
10:53:51  <peter1138> everyone blames newgrf
10:54:00  <Brianetta> I thought they blamed autopilot?
10:54:09  <Sacro> or blame Bjarni :p
10:54:11  <Bjarni> because it's impossible to tell the length of a train before it's replaced due to newgrf custom lengths
10:54:54  <peter1138> who blamed autopilot?
10:55:03  <Bjarni> Brianetta
10:55:04  <Brianetta> peter1138: Nobody her e(:
10:55:23  <Brianetta> autopilot has been blamed for such things as desyncs and game crashes before now
10:55:32  <Bjarni> :p
10:55:36  <peter1138> o_O
10:55:52  <Brianetta> Never by a dev, you understand
10:55:56  <Brianetta> just be users
10:56:00  <Brianetta> by users
10:57:04  <Brianetta> Yey! Amazon just wrote to tell me they've dispatched Battlestar Galactica series 2
10:57:14  <peter1138> :)
10:57:17  <hylje> nice topic divert
10:58:40  <Brianetta> peter1138: You can run Tcl in debug mode which shows you every expect and regular expression stream match
10:59:40  <peter1138> hmm
10:59:47  <peter1138> how?
11:00:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... that new battlestar galactica series wasn't that good, imho...
11:00:15  <Brianetta> just looking it up
11:00:39  <Noldo> I liked it
11:01:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> they have only shown season 1 here, though...
11:01:40  <Brianetta> Who's they?
11:01:47  <Brianetta> I'm buying the DVDs as I can afford them
11:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> they = german TV
11:02:01  <Brianetta> I've only seen series 1
11:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> ("RTL II" to be exact)
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11:12:52  <Bjarni> Brianetta: unless you tell me what it is you want to be able to do, I will have a hard time coding it ;)
11:13:20  <Brianetta> Bjarni: It involved an on-screen clock, and declaring a day to be equal to a minute.
11:13:47  <Brianetta> Then allowing a time to be attached to an order.  With a time on an order, that order would not execute (train would wait) until that time.
11:13:49  <peter1138> scheduling :)
11:14:13  <Brianetta> OK, so a day would take weeks to pass
11:14:29  <Brianetta> but trains already take weeks to travel (:
11:14:40  <peter1138> 1 day = 2 minutes
11:14:41  <peter1138> hmm
11:14:50  <Brianetta> erm
11:14:55  <peter1138> err
11:14:58  <peter1138> 2 seconds
11:15:02  <Brianetta> minute
11:15:10  <peter1138> so if 1 day = 1 minute
11:15:12  <Brianetta> 1 day = 2 seconds = 1 timetable minute
11:15:12  <peter1138> 1 minute = 2 seconds
11:15:33  <peter1138> = 30 times shorter
11:15:33  <Brianetta> The calendar and the clock run at different speeds
11:15:34  <peter1138> hmm
11:15:56  <Brianetta> It's a factor of 30, sure, but any train which takes three days to pull in to a platofrm...
11:16:00  <hylje> that must be confusing!
11:16:02  <peter1138> 48 minutes for a schedule day
11:16:09  <peter1138> that might be a bit too much
11:16:12  <Brianetta> no
11:16:18  <Brianetta> a schedule day lasts weeks
11:16:41  <Bjarni> so basically what you want is: adding date and clock to the orders (each line in the orders) and if it's set to something, then the train will not move on to the next order before the time in the orders have been reached?
11:16:44  <Brianetta> The calendar is utterly ignored for the purposes of timetabling
11:17:04  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Pretty much, yes.
11:17:15  <Brianetta> Order lists might get long for a whole day (:
11:17:19  <peter1138> presumably times would be leaving times?
11:17:24  <Brianetta> yes, departure
11:17:43  <peter1138> so you get to the order, and then wait until it's time...
11:17:43  <Brianetta> Obviously, the clock can be recalibrated for balance
11:18:03  <peter1138> wonder if it could calculate the average speed it needs to go at ;)
11:18:04  <Brianetta> but it'll make it possible to control a jammable junction by timetable
11:18:18  <Bjarni> that would kind of kill the idea of shared orders if you want say 30 trains and a departure once a day
11:18:27  <peter1138> oh, and of course, the train must be able to load until departure time
11:18:30  <Bjarni> unless we declare 0 as any day
11:18:34  <peter1138> so like full load until time
11:18:41  <Bjarni> LUNCH!
11:18:43  <Bjarni> bbl
11:18:45  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Days don't enter into it
11:18:51  <Brianetta> It's a daily timetable
11:19:11  <peter1138> each train would try to leave at the same time?
11:19:12  <peter1138> hmm
11:19:14  <Brianetta> If it takes more than a timetable day (about a month) for your train to get somewhere, it's a problem.
11:19:32  <Brianetta> peter1138: A timetable could have several depart orders for the same station
11:19:37  <Brianetta> Four through the day
11:19:41  <Brianetta> and four trains sharing
11:19:49  <Brianetta> would ensure four distinct departures
11:19:52  <Brianetta> unless there are delays
11:20:07  <Brianetta> with late trains replacing each other (:
11:20:37  <Brianetta> It just works(TM(TM)
11:21:06  <Brianetta> unless, of course, they have multiple platforms
11:21:12  <peter1138> if they share an order list...
11:21:29  <peter1138> then the orderlist will say they have to be at $foo at the same time
11:21:30  <peter1138> hmm
11:21:45  <Brianetta> no, it says they can't leave $foo unless it's that time
11:21:52  <Brianetta> they might not be on the same order
11:21:59  <peter1138> hmm
11:22:26  <Brianetta> You could stop the train and skip them to a later order, then restart
11:22:54  <peter1138> ah, you could have the same station in the order multiple times
11:22:55  <peter1138> hmm
11:22:58  <Brianetta> and, of course, having a time on any order is optional
11:23:04  <peter1138> with different times
11:23:08  <Brianetta> yes, that's exactly it
11:23:10  <peter1138> what if a train arrives late
11:23:27  <Brianetta> Depends what the window is
11:23:32  <peter1138> right
11:23:34  <Brianetta> how late are trains still allowed to leave?
11:23:40  <Brianetta> That would be a patch option
11:23:48  <Brianetta> or a company option
11:23:50  <peter1138> but maybe that depends on the timespan between orders
11:24:08  <Brianetta> Perhaps it's an order sheet option
11:24:18  <Brianetta> This train has a window of 5 minutes...
11:24:23  <Brianetta> This train has a window of 60 minutes...
11:24:28  <Brianetta> passenger, coal, etc
11:24:41  <Brianetta> A good palyer could timetable really tightly
11:24:48  <Brianetta> with enough leeway for breakdown
11:25:02  <peter1138> easy when they're off :)
11:25:07  <Brianetta> oh yeah (:
11:25:10  <Brianetta> like clockwork
11:25:11  <Brianetta> !!!
11:25:27  <hylje> clockwork ottd
11:25:32  <hylje> :>
11:25:51  <Brianetta> Clever players could simply timetable one train, and use its tailing signal to schedule others (:
11:26:08  <Brianetta> As soon as it goes, presignal X clears, other trains leave...
11:26:38  <Brianetta> It'd be like Digbeth coach station in Birmingham
11:29:02  <peter1138> one thing
11:29:19  <peter1138> if we implement timetables
11:29:25  <peter1138> we also need to implement leaves on the line
11:29:42  <Brianetta> heh
11:29:51  <peter1138> and the wrong sort of snow
11:30:00  <Brianetta> demolish trees to make way
11:30:41  <Brianetta> Imagine having this feature before Patch...
11:31:11  <peter1138> that'd make a change ;p
11:31:23  <peter1138> (i'd like to implement signal restrictions though)
11:31:32  <Brianetta> prohibitions?
11:31:34  <peter1138> yeah
11:31:38  * Brianetta nods
11:31:42  <Brianetta> that, and default-red
11:31:47  <Brianetta> and shared tracks
11:31:53  <Brianetta> so we can play 1990s UK
11:32:14  <Brianetta> "You delayed my train"
11:32:19  <Brianetta> "It was a red signal"
11:32:20  <peter1138> :)
11:32:26  <Brianetta> "Don't look at me, I fixed that one"
11:33:45  <peter1138> i suppose that would need to be an option as well
11:33:58  <peter1138> i dunno, all these people who want to play it like it used to be...
11:35:22  * peter1138 ponders
11:35:37  <peter1138> allow naming shared orders
11:35:49  <Brianetta> Good idea, IMO
11:35:54  <peter1138> then allow restricting to vehicles on that shared order
11:35:54  <Brianetta> never mind the other stuff
11:36:10  <Brianetta> They already have a sheet number based on a train number
11:36:19  <Brianetta> If that's dynamic, it should be changed somehow
11:37:05  <peter1138> i don't even know how shared orders are stored, without looking
11:37:06  * Brianetta buters a scone and mumbles something about damning the sores on his tongue to hell
11:37:19  <Brianetta> If you hear a shriek from beyond the northern horizon, it's me, eating
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11:38:05  <Brianetta> Oh, it's painful, but much better than at the weekend
11:38:11  * Brianetta munches
11:38:44  <peter1138> yay for amazon
11:38:55  <Brianetta> indeed yey
11:39:00  <peter1138> sent me an email saying i can get a book for half-price
11:39:08  <peter1138> except i already bought it...
11:39:10  <Brianetta> sent me an email this morning, too (:
11:39:13  <peter1138> through amazon...
11:39:31  <Brianetta> I noticed that BG2 wound up on my reccomendations list after I one-click'd it
11:40:46  <SpComb> Logs:
11:40:46  <Born_Acorn> !logs
11:41:10  <Born_Acorn> boo for Amazon.
11:41:25  <Born_Acorn> They smell of smelly wee with processing my orders. >:(9
11:41:35  <Brianetta> ew
11:42:10  <Born_Acorn> I use the with the free delivery and the first classness!
11:42:51  <Brianetta> I normally do
11:43:05  <Brianetta> but BG2 was more there, even if I added Amazon's 1st class postal rate
11:43:22  <Brianetta> and Amazon's better for books
11:43:31  <Born_Acorn> When you get super saver delivery, it's still 2nd class!
11:43:41  <Brianetta> I paid for 1st class
11:44:02  <Brianetta> and it was still 50p cheaper than Play
11:44:19  <Born_Acorn> Ooh. Thats new.
11:44:22  <Born_Acorn> "PlayTrade"
11:45:00  <Brianetta> What I do like about Amazon is the fast delivery.  You click on the one-click button, and you hear it fall onto your doormat.
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11:45:32  <Born_Acorn> It's never fast with me, which is why I dislike Amazon.
11:46:06  <Born_Acorn> It takes them three days to even getting it dispatched, especially with the last three items I bought from there.
11:46:33  <Brianetta> weird
11:46:52  <Brianetta> I'll admit, I normally buy from Play because they're inexpensive and still really reliable
11:47:00  <Brianetta> but I've never had trouble with Amazon
11:47:10  <Born_Acorn> Once they are delivered, though, they take little time to get to me.
11:47:26  <Born_Acorn> But with is usually takes another day.
11:47:38  <Born_Acorn> (Probably due to being on an Island)
11:49:42  <Brianetta> definitely due to that
11:50:06  <Brianetta>
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11:52:56  <peter1138> hmm
11:55:56  * Sacro goes to work
11:56:06  <Sacro> err... not work... college
11:56:12  <Sacro> mustn't forget college
11:56:18  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-182-95.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:56:23  <Born_Acorn> I still can't get my Stratocruisers to become Super Guppies peter1138. :(
11:56:41  <Brianetta> All I can say is, "Eh?"
11:57:11  <Born_Acorn> Livery Refits.
11:57:31  <Born_Acorn> In Av8, the A300 becomes a Beluga when refitted to goods.
11:57:50  <Born_Acorn> The Stratocruiser becomes the Super Guppy.
11:58:18  <Born_Acorn> But they aren't!
11:58:27  <peter1138> yeah
11:58:32  <peter1138> well i can't diagnose at the moment
11:59:03  <peter1138> btw, is that a livery refit, or just a normal refit? :P
11:59:09  <Born_Acorn> Livery refit.
11:59:25  <Born_Acorn> No.. wait.
11:59:26  <peter1138> so you can have it as normal goods and super guppy goods?
11:59:29  <Born_Acorn> I don't know.
11:59:31  <peter1138> heh
11:59:35  <Bjarni> Brianetta: I have been thinking a bit about that timetable thing
11:59:43  <Born_Acorn> You refit to Goods, and it changes to a Super Guppy
11:59:55  <peter1138> so it's a normal refit which have been working for ages
11:59:55  <Bjarni> we will have to add 4 bytes to each order to store it in the array :/
12:00:09  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, but the graphics don't change!
12:00:16  <peter1138> 4 bytes?
12:00:22  <Bjarni> yeah
12:00:26  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: yeah, apart from that?
12:00:29  <peter1138> Bjarni: what for?
12:00:32  <Bjarni> the struct size is extended 4 bytes at a time
12:00:38  <Bjarni> (aka 32 bits)
12:00:40  * Brianetta takes a pill coctail
12:00:49  <Bjarni> right now I completely filled it with the refit stuff
12:00:59  <peter1138> completely?
12:01:03  <peter1138> you only need 16 bits for that
12:01:15  <Born_Acorn> Refitting to Goods has always worked, but not the Graphics, which matter!
12:01:16  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Is adding to the array fatal to the idea?
12:01:21  <Bjarni> yeah, I mean now the struct size is a multiply of 32 bits
12:01:38  <peter1138> Brianetta: nope
12:01:40  <peter1138> memory is cheap :)
12:01:40  <Bjarni> 	<Brianetta>	Bjarni: Is adding to the array fatal to the idea? <-- no, but it increases memory usage somewhat
12:02:05  <Brianetta> What's the average number of orders ina  game?
12:02:21  <Brianetta> Orders can be shared, which is handy
12:02:33  <Bjarni> yeah
12:02:35  <Brianetta> and if you read up, Peter and I were discussing sharing timetabled orders
12:02:56  <peter1138> it's 10 bytes already
12:03:14  <peter1138> (14 on 64bit machines)
12:03:28  * Bjarni wonders about making the timetable in hours and maybe steps of minutes (15 or 30). That way it can fit in a byte
12:03:45  <peter1138> Brianetta: max number of orders is 64000
12:04:00  <Brianetta> You could... but trains were the invention that necessitated the invention of a packet watch accurate to the minute (:
12:04:01  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	it's 10 bytes already <-- yeah, and I'm adding CargoID and subtype, which makes it 12
12:04:20  <peter1138> not big then
12:04:21  <Brianetta> Well, if you're growing it anyway...
12:04:42  <Brianetta> I take it you can't dynamically allocate stuff>
12:04:46  <Bjarni> I was actually thinking about how much data to save (savegame size)
12:04:50  <peter1138> you can fit the time into 11 bits ;)
12:05:06  <peter1138> Brianetta: not much point when the pointer to it takes up more than the data itself
12:05:20  <Brianetta> peter1138: Fair enough
12:05:43  <Bjarni> one pointer takes up the same size as the number of bits of the CPU
12:05:48  <Bjarni> so 32 or 64
12:06:11  <Bjarni> or 4 or 8 bytes
12:06:13  <peter1138> you could have it down to 7m30s intervals in a byte
12:06:28  <peter1138> or keep it flexible with a word
12:06:38  <Bjarni> 7m39s sounds silly :p
12:06:43  <peter1138> yes
12:06:43  <Bjarni> *30
12:06:55  <Brianetta> you could make an extra array, and key it with the same keys as the orders, and simply not allocate space on that array for orders without times, and then use a LEFT JOIN.... oh no, that's not tight
12:06:56  <peter1138> that's dividing the hour into eighths
12:07:03  <Bjarni> it should at least be 10m if we decide to do it that way
12:07:14  <Bjarni> and IF de decide to do it
12:07:14  <peter1138> i say make it 16 bits
12:07:26  <peter1138> and 0xFFFF becomes "no time"
12:07:36  <Brianetta> Magic numbers.
12:07:41  <Bjarni> no
12:07:51  <peter1138> you could make it 11 bits, and 2048 becomes "no time"
12:08:01  <peter1138> then have 5 bits left for any flags
12:08:04  <Bjarni> 0xFFFF is used generally as not used
12:08:23  <Bjarni> and since it's all 1, it should be compressable
12:08:28  <peter1138> 5 bits of 'flexibility' ;)
12:08:36  <peter1138> i.e. how late it can be
12:08:47  <Brianetta> indeed!
12:08:49  <peter1138> Bjarni: i don't think zlib works on bits
12:09:13  <Brianetta> peter1138: Witha granularity of only 7.5 minutes, this can be a couple of bits only
12:09:28  <peter1138> Brianetta: with 11 bits, the granualarity is 1 minute
12:09:34  <Brianetta> ooh
12:09:40  <Brianetta> I must pay more attention
12:09:46  <peter1138> -a
12:09:46  <Brianetta> but I just had pills that make me drowsy (:
12:09:54  <Brianetta> and I'm sticking to that excuse
12:09:56  <Bjarni> but if it saves an array of just 1 (not fitting in this case, but in general), it should be able to compress it nicely nomatter what compression system it uses
12:10:21  <Brianetta> Bjarni: correct
12:10:24  <Bjarni> except compression = none ;)
12:10:42  <peter1138> i'd say
12:10:44  <peter1138> in an average game
12:10:51  <peter1138> you're looking to add less than a kilobyte in total
12:11:11  <Bjarni> fair enough
12:11:23  <Bjarni> that's not critical
12:11:23  <peter1138> that was a wild guess ;p
12:11:30  <peter1138> and only 256 orders
12:11:31  <peter1138> hmm
12:11:38  <Bjarni> and I didn't verify it
12:12:53  <Bjarni> hmm, we only have 64 orders in each block in the pool... now that sounds inefficient
12:13:09  <peter1138> why inefficient?
12:13:24  <peter1138> how often do you add orders?
12:13:35  <peter1138> that's quite a large chunk actually
12:13:44  <Bjarni> the bigger it is, the faster it is to get a certain order based on index
12:13:49  <Brianetta> Aren't I popular?
12:13:59  <Brianetta> Helen just rang me, and my boss rang nefore her
12:14:09  <peter1138> Bjarni: are you sure?
12:14:18  <peter1138> i don't see how ;p
12:14:31  <peter1138> it's just maths
12:14:45  <Bjarni> maybe I misunderstood how pools work, but I think they are a linked list of pools
12:14:46  <peter1138> id / blocksize = block
12:15:01  <peter1138> id % blocksize = item in block
12:15:02  <peter1138> hmm
12:15:03  <Brianetta> anyway, abck to earlier: Bjarni, when timetables are done, it becomes possible to plan the route of a wagon by timetabling it to be coupled and uncoupled at depots or mythical switching yards.
12:15:50  <peter1138> Bjarni: you have:)
12:16:02  <peter1138> there's an array of pointers to the blocks
12:16:05  <peter1138> so it's not a linked list
12:16:11  <Bjarni> oh
12:16:14  <Bjarni> then it's not that bad
12:16:25  <peter1138> that way, the array gets reallocated, but the blocks themselves stay where they are
12:16:35  <peter1138> (which is rather important)
12:16:46  <Bjarni> so selecting something in block 7 is just as fast as selecting something in block 297
12:16:51  <peter1138> yes
12:16:59  <Bjarni> good :)
12:17:34  <Bjarni> I just remembered it as a loop to go though all drops to reach the right one in a linked list
12:17:43  <Bjarni> but the orders are ok then :)
12:20:01  <Bjarni> hmm
12:20:06  <Brianetta> hmm?
12:20:15  <Bjarni> why do we even keep those blank bytes in the savegames?
12:20:48  <Bjarni> SLE_CONDNULL(10, 5, SL_MAX_VERSION), <-- I mean why not just set SL_MAX_VERSION to the next savegame version?
12:21:03  <Bjarni> or current
12:21:27  <Bjarni> so that once we update, we will not fill the savegame files with useless 0 bytes
12:21:44  <Bjarni> it's a leftover from the major and minor savegame version shit
12:25:45  <Bjarni> peter1138: do you know any reason to keep it?
12:26:02  <Brianetta> It just occurred to me that signals in opentt aren't failsafe in the railway meaning
12:26:25  <Bjarni> not red by default or what do you mean?
12:26:30  <Brianetta> If you remove a piece of track, the signal protecting it turns green
12:26:35  <Brianetta> even if there's a train
12:26:48  <Bjarni> heh
12:27:12  <Brianetta> in realways (heh), breaking a track energises a relay which would otherwise have been shorted
12:27:55  <Brianetta> er, no
12:28:00  <Brianetta> that's what the train does
12:28:08  <Brianetta> yeah, it'd break the track circuit
12:28:19  <Brianetta> and so the signal would change to danger
12:28:54  <Brianetta> since any break or short de-energises a relay
12:28:58  <Brianetta> which controls the signal
12:29:01  <Bjarni> if we got a track block with a train on it, all the signals should stay at danger
12:29:15  <Brianetta> ottd doesn't understand blocks
12:29:25  <Brianetta> but if there's no route to anywhere, it should be red (:
12:29:44  <Brianetta> so if you remove chunks or line, other trains won't advance into the "block"
12:29:59  <Brianetta> so when you replace them, there's no risk of kaboomage
12:30:24  <Brianetta> I think this will fix itself with default-red
12:30:30  <Bjarni> that depends. If there is no exit from the block, then it should be red OR some other state, but not just green
12:30:48  <Bjarni> the other state could be green, yellow (allowed to pass, but at reduced speed)
12:30:56  <Bjarni> this is used on end of line stations
12:31:24  <Bjarni> and you will naturally never get the "clear to go though station" signal ;)
12:31:32  <Brianetta> In the UK, permanent red at end of platform, red or yellow at start
12:32:02  <Bjarni> we just got a sign saying "STOP"
12:32:07  <Bjarni> or actually it says
12:32:07  <Bjarni> S
12:32:08  <Bjarni> T
12:32:09  <Bjarni> O
12:32:09  <Bjarni> P
12:32:11  <Bjarni> :)
12:32:16  <Brianetta> Here it's a track barrier with a red lamp on it
12:32:17  <Born_Acorn> With a smiley face?
12:32:19  <Born_Acorn> How friendly.
12:32:22  <Brianetta> It wasn't ever really a signal
12:32:33  <Brianetta> but after the always-yellow thing, it was treated as such
12:32:49  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: yeah. We also got graffiti issues :(
12:33:42  <Born_Acorn> But at least the Artists are friendly! It could be an angry face or "Die you ugly mofos"
12:34:46  <Bjarni> <-- this is what it looks like
12:35:01  <Bjarni> it means "stop unless given permission to proceed"
12:35:37  <Bjarni> a permission, that can't be given at the end of the line
12:35:54  <Brianetta>
12:36:50  <Bjarni> in this case, it's stop unless the next signal is green.... there are two of them... really odd. That's unusual and actually not up to the standard code for signal placement o_O
12:40:43  <Brianetta> Bjarni: This is the accident that led to the red lamps being used (logically) as red signals:
12:40:43  <Brianetta>
12:42:22  <Born_Acorn> Wikipedia is getting slower and slower.
12:42:44  <Brianetta> zoom to #Consequences_for_main_line_railways
12:42:45  <Born_Acorn> Maybe it will cross the threshold and start going in reverse!
12:44:56  <Bjarni> Brianetta: well, there are morons everywhere
12:46:06  <Brianetta> The train now arriving on platforms, 2, 3, 4 and 5 is the 12:57 to King's Cross.
12:46:07  <Brianetta>
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12:46:28  <Brianetta> Two sets of bolts removed from the track, and the rear of the train sideswept the station into oblivion.
12:46:47  <Brianetta> Foul play is suspected; there's still no conclusion.
12:47:05  <Brianetta>
12:47:11  <Bjarni> lol, something went wrong when saving the refit stuff
12:47:23  <Bjarni> now it stopped refitting and it shows cost as 0
12:47:34  <Bjarni> it really shows a 0 cost animation at the depot tile :D
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12:48:15  <Brianetta> "The points had broken apart. The bolts which were supposed to secure them were found lying discarded on the ground alongside."
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13:11:20  <peter1138> 13:26 <@Bjarni> peter1138: do you know any reason to keep it? < no
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13:18:36  <peter1138> Bjarni: some refits do cost 0
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13:47:29  <higen> hey.. clients gets desync error on my server. and gets kicked out.. running a dedicated linux server.. whats the problem?
13:47:48  <higen> they are getting kicked out all the time
13:47:55  <higen> but rest of the people have no problem with it
13:48:11  <hylje> restart your server
13:48:19  <hylje> theres a vague drift problem
13:48:36  <glx> higen: happens to all clients?
13:48:37  <higen> hmm.. but its like 5 people playing on it
13:48:37  <hylje> (you can save and load so you dont lose anything)
13:48:41  <higen> no.. only 2
13:48:47  <glx> newgrf I guess
13:49:02  <higen> newgrf?
13:49:27  <glx> if they are using newgrfs and your server don't they desync
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13:49:30  <higen> i am using the default graphics
13:50:08  <hylje> save, restart, load and see if the desyncs continue
13:50:14  <higen> i will do!
13:50:18  <higen> restart openttd right?
13:50:37  <hylje> yes
13:50:59  <higen> company passwords and everything will be saved right?
13:51:23  <hylje> i believe so
13:51:38  <higen> glx: can you answer that question more accurate?
13:51:40  <peter1138> nop
13:51:49  <peter1138> company passwords are not saved
13:52:01  <higen> so.. after reload.. everyone can steal eachothers?
13:52:05  <glx> yes
13:52:39  <higen> sucks
13:52:47  <higen> the server have just been running for like 2-3 hours btw
13:53:13  <glx> btw if only 2 people desync, I'm quite sure they are using newgrf
13:53:28  <peter1138> depends...
13:53:41  <peter1138> the other people might start desyncing if they reconnected
13:53:54  <glx> hmm possible yes
13:54:08  <peter1138> (in which case it's a savegame inconsistency)
13:54:10  <hylje> ottdcoop got this problem sometimes
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13:54:37  <hylje> for instance, i joined first and stayed in the game for a few hours
13:54:48  <hylje> meanwhile others did desync randomly
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13:55:10  <hylje> when i eventually left and later came back, i too desynced
13:55:15  <peter1138> yeah
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14:00:46  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	Bjarni: some refits do cost 0 <-- I know, but it didn't refit and showed 0 as "failed to refit"
14:00:50  <Bjarni> btw it's fixed now
14:02:22  <peter1138> hehe
14:12:11  <higen> seems to work :)
14:12:12  <higen> thanks
14:12:26  <hylje> np
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14:19:14  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: ok, so it does use a livery refit. hmm.
14:21:16  * peter1138 wonders why it's not doing it...
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14:35:20  <TrueLight> A friendly reminder: tomorrow (in about 16 hours), most of the webservice (see topic) will be down, including SVN. Estimated time is around 2 to 3 hours.
14:35:42  <TrueLight> See the news topic on the frontpage of for more information
14:35:45  <TrueLight> Have a nice day! :)
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14:51:50  <jez9999> Bjarni: as for whether the face patch will be updated, yeah, but unfortuantely I don't have internet access at home at the moment and won't until the 11th October; also the patch needs to be adapted to work with the silly new widgets code.
14:53:13  <Belugas> i know someone who might not have #openttd access shortly...
14:53:46  <jez9999> ...
14:53:50  <hylje> ...
14:55:26  <jez9999> meanwhile it might fit well in MiniIN
14:55:43  <jez9999> why is it called that?  weird name
14:55:56  <Belugas> up until miniIN is synched
14:56:12  <hylje> its not mini, its not integrated, its not nightly?
14:56:44  <jez9999> integrated?
14:56:47  <Belugas> weird name for those who do not know the history of miniIN
14:56:54  <jez9999> as in it has a load of patches integrated into it?
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14:59:15  <Belugas> yes, it started out of vsn, as an integration of a lot of users patches
14:59:45  <Belugas> then, when it was brough in vsn, richk67 decided to make a choice, not covering everything.  thus the mini
15:01:02  <jez9999> ok i'm off.  need a drink.  sigh, so boring without net access...
15:01:09  *** jez9999 [h5mqh0wmhf@] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
15:05:59  <Bjarni> LOL @ Jez9999
15:06:10  <Bjarni> "silly new widget code" :D
15:08:58  <Belugas> yeah... silly himself.. grrrrrr
15:09:18  <Belugas> next time, remind to ignore this clown
15:09:32  <Belugas> or i will kick him hard
15:10:15  <Belugas> heheh..i know how to ban, but i don't care learning how to unbakn :D
15:11:17  <Bjarni> actually whenever I ban somebody I always have to figure out how to unban afterwards
15:11:27  <Bjarni> I always forget how to do it :P
15:12:12  <Bjarni> some day I will fail to "relearn" how to do it and somebody will get his 5 minutes ban changed to a perm ban :P
15:13:08  <peter1138> silly new widget code, referring to what?
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15:19:53  <Born_Acorn> (15:19:13) <peter1138> Born_Acorn: ok, so it does use a livery refit. hmm. <-- I told ye!
15:21:08  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, the branch?
15:28:02  <Bjarni> <-- what do you think?
15:29:27  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	silly new widget code, referring to what? <-- Belugas started merging the branch
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15:43:43  <peter1138> Bjarni: too terse
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15:44:12  <peter1138> Go to La Neuveville Train Depot (refit to Steel)
15:45:32  <Bjarni> I wondered about the same thing
15:48:17  <pv2b> is there any way, with openttd 0.4.8, to build a multi-unit lorry station without all the trucks always selecting one single station?
15:48:41  <pv2b> the load distribution works to start with, but then after a year or so degrades to a long queue to one single of the stations.
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15:54:59  <peter1138> pv2b: yeah, turn off ... er.. something
15:55:19  <peter1138> road vehicle queueing
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15:55:30  <peter1138> it will help a bit
15:56:32  <Born_Acorn> peter1138 that's the 2nd time I've heard the word "terse" since 1995.
15:56:39  <Born_Acorn> How old are you? :p
15:56:43  <Born_Acorn> 90?
15:56:45  <Born_Acorn> :p
15:57:28  <peter1138> huh?
15:58:20  <Born_Acorn> terse = archaic word!
15:59:04  <peter1138> it's the opposite of verbose
15:59:04  <peter1138> anyway
15:59:09  <peter1138> i think i may have found our little bug
15:59:27  <Gonozal_VIII> what's the meaning of terse?
15:59:37  <Born_Acorn> breif.
15:59:39  <Born_Acorn> *brief
15:59:46  <Born_Acorn> Or short.
16:00:01  <Born_Acorn> Or "Needs more verbs, guv"
16:00:02  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, thank you... never heard that before
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16:02:27  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: it's a one-liner :(
16:03:06  <Born_Acorn> It's an orders window. Not the next Harry Potter book. :p
16:03:37  <CIA-2> peter1138 * r6615 /trunk/vehicle_gui.c: - Fix (r6601): Fix bug that prevented subtypes appearing in some cases.
16:03:43  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: no, i mean the fix
16:03:49  <peter1138> 6615 == guppy works
16:04:00  <Born_Acorn> yay!
16:04:31  <peter1138> and probably the beluga, but i didn't test
16:04:35  * Born_Acorn checks ooot
16:05:11  *** Tron_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:05:43  <Born_Acorn> Now where's my sounds per tick regulator? >:(
16:05:47  * Born_Acorn jests.
16:06:08  <peter1138> i dunno if the speed is correct even
16:06:20  <peter1138> it's better than it was in some of the ancient versions
16:06:43  <higen> hmm.. darn.. the server just went down without any errormsg or warning
16:07:13  <peter1138> i wish i could get Brianetta's autopilot to work :(
16:07:23  <Brianetta> Still no joy?
16:07:25  <peter1138> nope
16:07:27  <higen> like it was trying to tell me.. to get my ass to the kitchen an make some food
16:07:31  <Brianetta> What's up this time?
16:07:37  <peter1138> same
16:07:49  <Brianetta> Even when you add the variables to the config?
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16:08:02  <peter1138> they're there
16:08:57  <Brianetta> try adding another zero to the timeout
16:10:01  <Brianetta> although, as it's in seconds, not milliseconds, I can't see *that* helping
16:10:26  <Brianetta> Which line of lib is whingeing?
16:11:01  <peter1138> if i manually set the variables, it breaks elsewhere
16:11:11  <peter1138> maybe i'm missing something...
16:11:12  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, yay worky.
16:11:36  <Brianetta> peter1138: Paste your output to me
16:12:01  <Belugas> guppy... beluga... muwhahaha
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16:14:39  * Brianetta reads
16:14:51  <Born_Acorn> More than one Beluga = Belugas!
16:15:16  <Brianetta> Yep, that's the same bug
16:15:21  <Brianetta> It's the five-minutely recount
16:18:37  <peter1138> did you find out how to make tcl debug stuff?
16:18:45  <peter1138> $ tclsh --help
16:18:45  <peter1138> %
16:18:46  <peter1138> useful :/
16:21:08  <peter1138> tcl is masochistic
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16:23:22  <Wolf01> hi
16:23:29  * lws1984 waves
16:25:07  <Brianetta> peter: I have a possible fix
16:25:29  <Brianetta> DCC'd
16:26:35  <Brianetta> Since I can't get my server to fail this way, I'm hoping you can tell me if it works
16:27:18  <CIA-2> miham * r6616 /trunk/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
16:27:18  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-02 18:26:27
16:27:18  <CIA-2> catalan - 9 changed by arnaullv (9)
16:27:18  <CIA-2> danish - 54 fixed by ThomasA (54)
16:27:18  <CIA-2> dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
16:27:20  <CIA-2> finnish - 26 fixed by lauri.kajan (26)
16:27:20  <CIA-2> ukrainian - 40 fixed by znikoz (40)
16:27:23  <peter1138> ok
16:27:45  <peter1138> Brianetta: same problem
16:27:49  <Brianetta> shit
16:28:08  <peter1138> (what changed?)
16:28:30  <Brianetta> I added some lines that explicitly set the variables to hard-coded values
16:28:32  <Brianetta> brb phone
16:29:19  <peter1138> that's not in the version you just sent me
16:29:50  <peter1138> i tried that anyway, but it fails elsewhere
16:31:32  <Wolf01> gui bug: vehicles list title too long, doesn't fit in the titlebar and is not cut and replaced by "..."
16:32:11  <Brianetta> It is in the version I sent you
16:32:31  <Brianetta> line 140,141,145,146,150,151
16:33:12  <Wolf01> where is the order group interface?
16:34:56  <Brianetta> Wolf01: Small vehicle icon in bottom of orders window
16:35:37  <Wolf01> i noticed it... but is different
16:36:37  <Brianetta> peter1138: Which version of Tcl have you?
16:39:19  <peter1138> 19021 pts/1    Sl+    0:00 /usr/bin/tclsh ./autopilot.tcl
16:39:19  <peter1138> 19024 ?        Zs     0:00 [openttd] <defunct>
16:39:20  <peter1138> hmm
16:39:40  <peter1138> 8.4.12
16:39:51  <Brianetta> try this:
16:40:05  <Brianetta> expect -d autopilot.tcl | tee output.log
16:42:26  <peter1138>
16:42:47  <peter1138> hmm
16:43:28  <peter1138> expect: read eof
16:43:30  <Brianetta> yes
16:43:39  <Brianetta> your problem is that openttd dies
16:43:56  <peter1138> guess what
16:43:59  <Brianetta> what?
16:44:03  <peter1138> it doesn't if i run it on its own :)
16:44:11  <Brianetta> Somebody on the forum had that problem
16:44:22  <Brianetta> on Debian
16:44:26  <peter1138> yup
16:45:06  <peter1138> wonder why/where it's dying...
16:46:02  <Brianetta> As it's trying to bind the network, it seems
16:46:43  * Brianetta reverts his changes
16:46:51  <Brianetta> The solution to the wrong problem...
16:46:57  * peter1138 nods
16:47:35  <Brianetta> If you mod autopilot.tcl, you can change log_user from 0 to 1
16:47:42  <peter1138> yeah, i have done
16:47:46  <peter1138> doesn't help much though :)
16:47:46  <Brianetta> that'll prevent it hiding all the server output from you
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16:50:23  * peter1138 adds debugging stuff
16:51:00  <Brianetta> Which nightly are you building?
16:51:08  <peter1138> current
16:52:21  <peter1138> seems to be the threading
16:53:49  <peter1138> fails at pthread_join
16:54:51  <Brianetta> Updated to revision 6611.
16:55:04  <Brianetta> Let's see if my server's dedicated build coughs and dies
16:55:15  <peter1138> yeah, i'm trying a dedicated build
16:55:18  <peter1138> this isn't
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16:56:53  * peter1138 waits another 5 years for it to compile
16:56:54  <Brianetta> My home-compiled nightly works fine
16:57:23  <Brianetta> As for my server... well, nothing's been compiled since August
16:58:48  <Brianetta> Autopilot engaged
16:58:48  <Brianetta> Starting new game named 'Brianetta's nightly -'
16:58:48  <Brianetta> Landscape is normal
16:58:48  <Brianetta> Map is 1024 tiles north to south by 256 tiles east to west
16:58:48  <Brianetta> Starting year is 1922
16:58:49  <Brianetta> All's well
16:58:53  <Brianetta> no crash
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16:59:03  <Sacro> Brianetta: is it true :o
16:59:13  <peter1138> 1922, heh
16:59:23  <Brianetta> Sacro: No, I'm just attemptiong to replicate an autopilot failure.
16:59:26  <peter1138> it's been safe to start at 1920 for ages
16:59:45  <Brianetta> Well, there you go
16:59:46  <peter1138> still fucking compiling :(
16:59:52  <Brianetta> What's your CPU?
17:00:05  <Brianetta> More to the point, what *else* are you compiling?
17:00:16  <peter1138> 1GHz
17:00:18  <peter1138> nothing else
17:00:25  <Brianetta> Mine's 1.8
17:00:30  <Brianetta> so you should be about done now
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17:01:13  <peter1138> bah, still crashes
17:01:34  <Brianetta> Does the pre-built package crash?
17:01:40  <peter1138> dunno, gotta go
17:01:42  <Brianetta> It might be worth knowing
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17:37:26  <pv2b> hm. just a thought. to run a dedicated openttd server, are the microprose proprietary files neccessary, or is that only required at the cllient?
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17:38:21  <eleusis> good question
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17:55:00  <DaleStan> pv2b: Try without them and see.
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18:37:36  <Brianetta> I believe that work has been done in the SVN to obviate the requirement for Microprose files
18:37:57  <Brianetta> For a 0.4.8 dedicated server, you definitely need them still.
18:40:40  <Tron> <Brianetta> I believe that work has been done in the SVN to obviate the requirement for Microprose files <--- FUD
18:42:21  <Brianetta> Tron: Well, it's mainly what I see here in IRC, Tron.
18:42:46  <Brianetta> I know Darkvater has determined that the graphics and sounds are unecessary,
18:43:03  <Tron> that's incorrect
18:43:06  <Brianetta> but I don't know for sure what's happened, hence, "I believe"
18:43:25  <Brianetta> Incorrect?  Hang on, I'm just grepping logs
18:43:28  <Brianetta> I could be wrong
18:43:44  <Tron> there's one point in the game logic which strictly relies on the graphics data
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18:44:07  <Tron> it's totally bogus, but it is this way
18:44:13  <Brianetta> How?
18:44:22  <Brianetta> I mean, how can it depend on graphics?
18:44:28  <Tron> so you need the graphics even for a dedicated server
18:44:53  <Brianetta> The conversation we had took place after Mucht discovered that a 1x1 screen res on a dedicated server saved CPU
18:44:58  <Brianetta> so I know where to hunt...
18:45:30  <Tron> i didn't say it depends on the display of the graphics
18:45:34  <Tron> it depends on the data
18:45:38  <Brianetta> I know
18:45:43  <Brianetta> I'm just wondering how
18:45:49  <Brianetta> unless it's not all graphical data
18:45:53  <Tron> vehicle.c:207
18:46:18  <Brianetta> aha
18:46:31  <Brianetta> perhaps a pseudo datafile which contains just image dimensions?
18:46:41  <Brianetta> Or even blank whites
18:47:23  <Tron> bogus
18:47:27  <Tron> remove the dependency
18:47:35  <Tron> that's the only proper solution
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18:52:10  <Brianetta> 13-08_12:41:08 <TrueLight> btw, the patch to make dedicated server run without TTD grf files, runs really well :)
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18:52:31  <Brianetta> Well, found the general area - it seems that TL at least has had success (:
18:54:12  <Brianetta> And that alone supports my original statement today
18:54:23  <Tron> probably as much success as implementing the new memory pools
18:54:34  <Tron> i.e. abandoning it halfway through
18:54:47  <Brianetta> Well, work has been done there too, then.
18:54:58  <Tron> the point is: it doesn't work
18:55:07  <Tron> so you need the graphics files
18:55:25  <Tron> what maybe could have been doesn't count
18:56:30  <Brianetta> I'll ask TrueLight what became of the patch when I see him about
18:57:38  <Brianetta> I think Darkvater was a bit incredulous that the dedicated server could produce screenshots (:
18:58:09  <Sacro>  heh, it shouldnt be able to
18:58:30  <Tron> well, why not? making a "screen"shot isn't bound to an actual screen
18:58:54  <Tron> or do you have a 64.000 pixel wide screenshot to make a giant screenshot of a map?
18:58:58  <Brianetta> Does rather depend on graphics files, though (:
18:59:09  <Tron> s/wide screenshot/wide screen/
18:59:22  <Sacro> Tron: it needs the grfs to generate the images
18:59:29  <Brianetta> Tron: Making a screenshot with the server renders all the toolbars and the company info, etc.
18:59:46  <Tron> Sacro: you need them anyway
18:59:49  <Tron> Brianetta: and?
18:59:51  <Brianetta> Yuo can control where the shot is taken with scrollto
18:59:57  <Brianetta> but you can't change zoom ):
19:00:00  <Tron> no really
19:00:15  <Tron> the guy who wrote the dedicated server was a complete moron
19:00:31  <Tron> all he does it render the usual ingame graphics into a memory buffer
19:00:39  <Tron> s/it/is/
19:00:40  <Brianetta> It's just regular openttd with no screen
19:00:50  <Brianetta> I know that, the null video driver gives it away
19:00:57  <Tron> yep, known fact, for a very long time
19:01:23  <Brianetta> Perhaps the true dedicated server should be a branch
19:01:30  <Tron> why?
19:01:41  <Brianetta> So that it can be pared down,
19:01:46  <Brianetta> allowing more to run on a given host
19:01:56  <Brianetta> without any requirements for licensed graphics
19:02:00  <Tron> pared?
19:02:03  <Brianetta> cut
19:02:12  <Tron> it's a single file
19:02:15  <Brianetta> like when you pare an apple
19:02:23  <Tron> it just needs to be done right
19:02:25  <Tron> nothing more
19:02:25  <blathijs> Brianetta: you mean, a seperate codebase, nog a branch meant to be merged later on
19:02:32  <Brianetta> blathijs: Yes, I do
19:02:39  <Brianetta> I mean a true branch
19:02:46  <Tron> i know what pare means, it just doesn't make sense to put it in a branch
19:02:59  <Tron> blackis: why? totally overkill
19:03:04  <blathijs> Brianetta: but that's not gonna work, since you will either get a dumb server, or duplicate 80% of the code
19:03:29  <Tron> you do it totally overcomplicated
19:03:32  <Brianetta> blathijs: Hopefully both - starting with the code that's written, and chopping out the rest
19:03:56  <Tron> the guy who wrote the dedicated video driver just had no clue how to do it right
19:04:14  <blathijs> Brianetta: A dumb server is not wanted, since it will not be able to prevent clients from making mistakes or cheating
19:04:35  <blathijs> Brianetta: And code duplicating is not wanted for obvious reasons
19:04:49  <blathijs> Tron: well, a dedicated video driver is not the way to go at all
19:05:03  <blathijs> Tron: but it is the easiest way of making a dedicated server work
19:05:08  <Tron> btw: i don't recommend reducing the resolution to 1x1, it leads to at least one buffer overflow
19:05:18  <Tron> blathijs: nonesense
19:05:21  <Brianetta> What would be your recommended minimum?
19:05:26  <Tron> blathijs: of course it is the way to go
19:05:41  <Tron> blathijs: but implementing it by rendering into a non-visible buffer is wrong
19:06:08  <Brianetta> A null video driver should discard everything it prints
19:06:21  <Tron> Brianetta: 640x480, maybe a few pixel less, depend on how large the chat message display area exactly is
19:06:32  <Brianetta> It's lss than half that in height
19:06:48  <Tron> but it's not at the top of the screen
19:06:59  <Brianetta> it isn't
19:07:54  <Tron> look in texteff.c for details
19:07:59  <Tron> it's done totally crappy
19:08:27  <Tron> the null video driver isn't the dedicated video driver
19:10:55  <peter1138> hello
19:11:16  <peter1138> how much lemon juice does a lemon contain?
19:11:44  <blathijs> uhm, about 100
19:12:00  <peter1138> 100ml?
19:12:13  <Sacro> blathijs: heh, like it
19:12:14  <Tron> depends on if it is carried by an african or an european swallow
19:12:19  <peter1138> the original graphics also contains sprites used by the landscape generator
19:12:27  <peter1138> (not by tgp though)
19:12:37  <peter1138> Tron: it's carried by me, from tesco :)
19:12:38  <Brianetta> resolution = 410,199
19:12:38  <Brianetta> That works
19:12:53  <Brianetta> Any smaller and the client dive-bombs
19:13:13  <Brianetta> *** glibc detected *** ./openttd: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x08d90b80 ***
19:13:17  <Brianetta> sweet (-:
19:13:39  <peter1138> yay
19:13:53  <blathijs> peter1138: no, 100
19:14:09  *** Neonox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:14:43  <peter1138> :)
19:18:21  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
19:25:39  <Belugas> [15:14] <peter1138> how much lemon juice does a lemon contain? <- enough
19:35:31  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-182-95.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38:51  <peter1138> useless bunch :P
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19:47:42  <Belugas> useless question :D
19:48:04  <hylje> useless smilie :>
19:50:17  <Belugas> useless conversation
19:50:46  <Born_Acorn> useless everything!
19:50:58  <Belugas> and nothing else matters
19:52:22  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:52:31  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
19:53:19  <Sacro> Bjarni:
19:53:36  <hylje> useless link
19:53:44  <Sacro> useless hylje
19:53:57  <hylje> useless..
19:54:03  <hylje> ..yo momma !
19:54:33  <Sacro> heh, and s/oktober/october/ on the topic
19:55:05  <hylje> nah. the kde way
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19:57:42  <Sacro> of all the names... heh
20:01:56  *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-83-100-225-16.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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20:17:26  <peter1138> hmm, yeah, this autopilot then :/
20:18:02  <Belugas> peter1138 : The answer!!!
20:18:15  <peter1138> my friend, is blowing in the wind?
20:18:25  <peter1138> or: *i* am the answer?
20:19:34  <Belugas> where's paul?
20:19:39  <Belugas> where's mary ?
20:19:56  <hylje> i am spartacus
20:20:14  *** e1ko [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.5/2006091003]]
20:20:16  <Sacro> i am the eggman
20:20:21  <peter1138> Sacro: wanna play?
20:21:49  <Sacro> peter1138: yeah, can do
20:24:06  <peter1138> k, servers running
20:27:12  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:29:35  <Wolf01> 'night all
20:29:39  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
20:30:25  <CIA-2> glx * r6617 /trunk/openttd.vcproj: -Fix r6596: missing '>' in openttd.vcproj
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20:57:15  <ConiKost> I got a stupuid quesstion, but is it possible to show information about my openttd dedicated server on an php site?
20:57:35  <Noldo> what do you mean by possible?
20:58:22  <ConiKost> i would like to have an status lile on my own website about my own server
21:04:31  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:07:21  <glx> ConiKost: look at
21:08:22  *** hylje [hylje@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:22  <glx> sorry
21:08:24  <glx> :)
21:08:35  <ConiKost> ah ^^
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21:24:39  <ConiKost> allright, i download the openttd server website ... but this is realy much stuff ... isn't there just an very simple php script, which connectes to my openttd and get the server info?
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21:35:27  <ConiKost> nobody here?
21:35:54  <ln-> you have only been here for 11 minutes.
21:36:01  <ln-> don't be so impatient.
21:36:49  <ConiKost> no comment -.-
21:37:45  * SimonRC did a calculation a while back...
21:37:50  * Sacro is hungry
21:38:26  <SimonRC> I found that it is actually *more* efficient to place roads in a 4*4 grid than the "normal" 3*3 grid.
21:38:53  <SimonRC> Although the towns will have gaps in them, more space is freed up by the reduced number of roads
21:39:21  <SimonRC> of course, 3*8 or whatever would be even more efficient
21:39:33  <SimonRC> and you could leave some of the roads out even then...
21:39:35  <SimonRC> etc
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21:55:05  <Bjarni> Sacro: I get that one once in a while
21:55:10  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:55:10  <Bjarni> the answer never changes
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21:58:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: heh
22:03:01  <Sacro> Bjarni: i just broke the autoreplace window
22:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... Bjarni... could it be that the autoreplace is not invoked if (new engine price) > (current money), but (new engine price) - (old engine value) < (current money)?
22:04:06  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: it builds the new engine, refits it if needed, moves the cargo and wagons (if any, depending on type and so on) and then sells the old one
22:04:18  <Bjarni> money can't be negative between any of those events
22:04:30  <Bjarni> Sacro: how?
22:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... bad
22:04:46  <Bjarni> why is that bad?
22:05:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> because when i do it manually, i first sell old, and then buy new engine
22:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i can do more manually than on auto...
22:05:41  <Sacro> Bjarni: i clicked "stop renewing" and it lost the list of planes i had and planes i could renew to
22:06:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> can't you do a complete price calculation, and then do everything, if end result is positive?
22:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> regardless if it is negative in between?
22:06:49  <Bjarni> doing it automatically means that I will need to prevent deleting the orders list and some other stuff. Also I need both in order to move the cargo
22:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, but you could do that without looking at the money
22:07:56  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: no because to avoid creating autoreplace specific bugs (specially when it comes to special cases like in some newgrf sets), autoreplace do not really do actions on itself, but it calls commands like build vehicle and sell vehicle
22:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you validate first, that money is no issue
22:08:19  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:09:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i have in mind is a parameter to the command, to let it ignore money
22:09:07  <Bjarni> I validate first so I give good to go if money do not drop below the renew money setting. I can't do anything about the failure to build without money failure though
22:09:49  <Bjarni> if we add a parameter to ignore money then I can hack my client, join a server and then build stuff without having any money
22:09:54  <Bjarni> the same code is used for that
22:10:11  <CIA-2> peter1138 * r6618 /trunk/train_cmd.c: - After refitting a train, update its cached variables as they may change.
22:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm...
22:10:42  <Bjarni> to solve it like you request will need a major hack in the networking code
22:10:47  <Bjarni> I'm not going to do tha
22:10:48  <Bjarni> t
22:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i understand that
22:11:35  <Bjarni> usually it's not an issue though
22:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just ran across that issue, because my new engines cost 20k, and the old ones were worth 17k
22:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> and as i was low on money, i had to replace them manually
22:13:35  <Bjarni> it's really tricky to solve this
22:13:51  <Bjarni> if I sell before building then what should I do if building fails? :)
22:14:07  <Bjarni> right now if building fails, then nothing happens
22:14:37  <Bjarni> if the old engine is sold, then what?
22:14:48  <Bjarni> you might end up with a huge problem
22:14:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i see your reasoning
22:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> better safe than sorry ;)
22:15:10  *** Spoco [] has quit []
22:15:43  <Bjarni> and autoreplace got a mean sideeffect. If a bug causes trains to become unable to make money, then a user can end up with 300 garbage trains in no time
22:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> and probably the command system does not easily allow subsequent test commands
22:16:41  <Bjarni> no, I can't say "do this if cost(command A) + cost(command B) - money >=0"
22:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> like: "test to sell old engine, then test to build new engine (with money from previous command)"
22:16:49  <Bjarni> income is negative cost
22:17:06  <Bjarni> err
22:17:19  <Bjarni> that would be <=, not >= :)
22:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> you'd need "virtual money", and do all commands on that one first, to see if it ends up positive
22:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> then, you can safely sell first, and buy afterwards
22:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> because you made sure you can do it
22:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> assuming that there is no way that anything can happen between test run and actual run
22:20:19  <Bjarni> nothing can happen
22:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you had such a "virtual copy" of everything involved, you could run a test replace on the entire train
22:20:48  <Bjarni> it's a singlethreaded application
22:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> you'd also get the length afterwards
22:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> to do wagon removal
22:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> before actually starting to replace
22:21:38  <Bjarni> in theory we can give the player a million when starting to replace and then take it away when it's done to kill this issue
22:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i thought of that, too, but a) trains could cost more than what you give, and b) it is an ugly hack
22:22:19  <Bjarni> it's the only way
22:22:25  <Bjarni> and I don't like it
22:23:17  <Bjarni> when a player goes bankrupt and all his stuff is removed, he magically gets a whole lot of money before paying to remove it
22:23:24  <Bjarni> but that's different
22:23:27  <blathijs> You could give a player the selling prices of the orginal train?
22:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i could imagine, that's why i did not bring the idea up
22:23:34  <blathijs> then buy the new train
22:23:40  <blathijs> then take away the money
22:23:45  <blathijs> then actually sell the train
22:24:36  <Bjarni> that's also an option
22:25:12  <blathijs> or perhaps just introduce some kind of "allow negative" flag, that allows costs to make the balance go below zero
22:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, yeah, that makes more sense than just adding 1 million
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22:25:34  <Bjarni> but how big is this issue?
22:25:57  <peter1138> minor?
22:26:09  <Bjarni> it have been there for more than a year and you are the first who told me that you actually triggered this condition
22:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if you have very close values, you can have a lot of trains that could be manually replaced, but are not autoreplaced
22:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, maybe the others just did not notice that they triggered it
22:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> or they did not care
22:27:03  <Bjarni> it used to contain a bug where this could go horribly wrong when triggering this event, but I fixed that a few weeks ago
22:27:11  <Bjarni> nobody complained about that bug
22:27:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> normally, if you do something on "auto", you do not actually watch what it is doing
22:27:51  <Bjarni> I think it could end up selling the engine or something in this case. It would go really bad
22:28:20  <Bjarni> and nobody noticed it, which means that very few if any triggered this
22:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, i know of the issue, and i know that i will complain every time it occures
22:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is usually unlikely to occure, since the value of old engines is usually insignificant
22:29:45  <Bjarni> yeah
22:30:47  *** Osai^zZz [] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz]
22:30:49  <Bjarni> ahh, I'm in luck
22:31:34  <Bjarni> somebody from a strange country just emailed me with a really good offer. Medication for a whole lot of diseases, that I do not have for nearly no money compared to official prices
22:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> you traded a large nugget of gold against a cow?
22:31:35  <blathijs> hmm, isn't this tune in the openttd soundtrack?
22:32:54  <Bjarni> but I clearly see that now somebody in a strange country have invented some sort of wonder drug, that can cure nearly all fatal diseases
22:32:56  <Sacro> blathijs: 404
22:33:08  <Bjarni> Sacro: works here :P
22:33:21  <Sacro> Resolving
22:33:21  <Sacro> Connecting to||:80... connected.
22:33:21  <Sacro> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
22:33:21  <Sacro> 23:33:14 ERROR 404: Not Found.
22:33:54  <Bjarni> are you trying the right path?
22:34:02  <ln-> most likely not
22:34:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> it worked for me
22:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> unfortunately, it killed my playlist :p
22:35:10  <ln-> this isn't the first time that something works for everyone else but sacro, is it?
22:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, there's an "undo" button ;)
22:36:07  * SimonRC goes to bed
22:36:29  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Quit: Don't feel well...]
22:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty sure i heard that theme before, but i cannot tell from where i recognize it
22:37:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i did not listen to TTD music in years
22:38:19  <Sacro> Bjarni: ijust copy-pasted
22:38:25  <Sacro> into wget
22:38:32  <Sacro> and firefox doesnt like it eitehr
22:38:58  <Bjarni> firefox accepted copy paste here
22:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just clicked on the link, and it opened in amarok
22:40:02  <Sacro> hmm, its quite a nice blues riff
22:40:31  <Sacro> goes nice with newsounds
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22:43:18  <blathijs> Sacro: did you quote it?
22:43:51  <blathijs> Sacro: I think bash eats everthing after the (
22:44:47  * blathijs off to bed
22:44:47  <blathijs> gn
22:45:30  <Sacro> blathijs: no i didnt... thats probably it
22:46:23  <Bjarni> yeah, now I can stop the refit order again... in sync in network games
22:46:34  <Bjarni> now I need to assign it in sync in network games
22:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> KDE is funny, with all the c->k replacement, everything sounds so german ;)
22:49:35  <eQualizer> Ich haben ein lederhose!
22:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's no K in there
22:50:08  <eQualizer> Ikh haben ein lederhose!
22:50:12  <Bjarni> lol
22:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, Hose is female
22:50:24  <Bjarni> *eine
22:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you travel near Berlin, you often have "ch" replaced by "ck"
22:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you hardly find lederhosen there
22:51:46  <Bjarni> ohhh German
22:52:34  <Bjarni> I remember my German teacher when somebody after having German at school for 3 or 4 years said "du wurst"
22:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> german dialects are fun, you can draw lines along the map with things like this "ch/ck" thing
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22:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> you end up with around 6 areas
22:53:51  <eQualizer> IMO Deutch sounds brutal language.
22:53:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> depending on how fine you do the splitting
22:54:01  <eQualizer> Deutsch*
22:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's worse than french, where even the worst insults sound like a love pledge, but better than arabic...
22:56:31  <ln-> also, every french word sounds exactly like all other french words.
22:56:32  <eQualizer> Eddi|zuHause2: That is what I love in French. No matter what you say, it sounds great.
22:56:38  <Bjarni> ln-: yeah
22:56:46  <Bjarni> completely ununderstandable
22:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is soooo true ;)
22:57:09  <glx> :P
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23:14:31  <Bjarni> LOL, I just noticed something funny
23:15:00  <Bjarni> you can set an order so a vehicle visits a depot to refit and then you can make that visit service only :D
23:18:07  <Sacro>  yeah
23:18:11  <Sacro> ive been using that tonight
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23:20:41  <Bjarni> <-- if anybody wants to test it. Note: savegame revision bump. Games saved with this might be unable to load once it's committed if I change anything
23:20:50  <Bjarni> use at your own risk
23:21:06  <Bjarni> and I haven't proofread it yet. I just got it to work
23:21:11  <Bjarni> and now I'm heading for bed
23:21:46  <Bjarni> Sacro: I believe that you might want to be the first one to try this :)
23:22:21  <Bjarni> and I expect feedback on how well it works and if something should be changed, like the GUI
23:22:57  <Bjarni> oh btw, known issue: if the vehicle is not in the depot when setting the refit order, refitted cargo capacity is not shown and the price is not always right
23:28:04  <Sacro> Bjarni: im up for college in the morning, ill give it a try tommorow
23:28:24  <Sacro> Bjarni: can it refit in situ, or does it have to be in a depot?
23:28:38  <Bjarni> it needs to be in a depot
23:28:50  <Bjarni> everything else will take ages to code
23:29:07  <Bjarni> and this is the first version
23:29:27  <Sacro> okies!
23:29:30  <Bjarni> odds are that I will commit this tomorrow
23:29:34  <Sacro> nice one
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