Log for #openttd on 15th October 2006:
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00:27:27  <MeusH> sprite drawing... 2:30 am again ;)
00:28:11  <Sacro> heh, 1:30 here, and im considering doing some sprites
00:28:26  <Bjarni> Sacro: you got one hour
00:28:32  <Sacro> Bjarni: till what?
00:28:41  <Bjarni> until it's 2:30
00:28:49  <Bjarni> damn, it's actually 2:30 here
00:28:54  <Belugas_Gone> Same here , plus a zero : 20:30h
00:28:58  <Belugas_Gone> hahaha!
00:29:00  <jez> hum
00:29:06  <Bjarni> I should be asleep
00:29:06  <jez> just watched the film 'Philadelphia'
00:29:08  <jez> pretty poignant
00:29:10  <jez> :-\
00:29:17  <Bjarni> poignant?
00:29:45  <jez> yeah
00:29:57  <Bjarni> I don't know that word :(
00:30:01  <jez>
00:30:13  <Bjarni> we had to watch it at school and then write an essay about it and analyse it
00:30:19  <Sacro> jez: was that the one with that actor?
00:30:29  <jez> 'that actor'? lol
00:30:34  <jez> no i dont think so
00:30:37  <Sacro> or was that 4 weddings and a funeral
00:30:45  <Bjarni> it sucked to analyse a movie like that
00:30:49  <jez> it's Tom Hanks, as a lawyer who was probably fired because he was gay and/or has AIDS
00:30:57  <Sacro> ahh yes
00:31:25  <Sacro> bedtime i reckon
00:31:30  <jez> quite qaint, there was a lot of anti-gay feeling there
00:31:32  <jez> 1993
00:31:43  <jez> in this country in 2006 it feels quaint, there is much less anti-gay feeling
00:31:44  <jez> heh
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00:32:26  <Sacro> night all
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00:39:05  <jez>
00:39:13  <jez> "To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup."
00:39:15  <jez> ahahahahahahha
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00:42:15  <Bjarni> err
00:42:37  <Bjarni> jez: you should be decent when in this channel
00:42:59  <Bjarni> first you talk about gay people, then you switch to talk about urine like those two are linked in your head
00:43:02  <MeusH> in "Category:Pages needing expert attention" :D
00:44:01  <MeusH> "waters of Shiva" haha :D
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00:44:57  <MeusH> I got to dispose my water of Shiva, see you in a minute ;]
00:45:16  <MeusH> goodnight :)
00:45:20  <Bjarni> <-- biology teachers turned into using borg approach or something? :p
00:45:33  <MeusH> oh, not yet goodnight :D
00:46:47  <Bjarni> if you meant goodnight, then it would be a really long piss :p
00:51:05  <MeusH>
00:51:07  <MeusH> goodnight :)
00:51:20  <MeusH> disposal, young man, not piss :)
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01:16:26  <Serriaromeo> 			item->info.compatible =
01:16:26  <Serriaromeo> 				strcmp(item->info.server_revision, _openttd_revision) == 0 ||
01:16:26  <Serriaromeo> 				strcmp(item->info.server_revision, NOREV_STRING) == 0;
01:16:51  <glx> and?
01:16:58  <Serriaromeo> am i reading that correct in that if you have a norev in the title bar, you can't join a network game?
01:17:05  <glx> exact
01:17:36  <Serriaromeo> i'm just broswing the code trying to figure it out somewhat.
01:17:38  <Serriaromeo> thanks
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02:14:18  <Belugas_Gone> [21:20] <Serriaromeo> i'm just broswing the code trying to figure it out somewhat. <--- So do i,oftenly ;)
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03:40:57  <CIA-1> belugas * r6777 /trunk/graph_gui.c: -GuiChange: When painting a lowered button on CargoPaymentsRates, displace the content of one pixel to the right and to the bottom. This will make it look like a normal button
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04:09:49  <Torm> good morning all :)
04:11:12  <Torm> random question... i've been doing a fair bit of reading into games programming, and games theory et al, and most of the guides and papers discuss the use of C++ instead of C for games programming... is there any particular reason OpenTTD is using C?
04:15:14  <wjarok> i enjoy men
04:32:45  <DaleStan> Torm: Because ludde did the original port as ASM -> C, not ASM -> C++.
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05:23:20  <Tron> [03:16:58] <Serriaromeo> am i reading that correct in that if you have a norev in the title bar, you can't join a network game?
05:23:21  <Tron> [03:17:05] <glx> exact
05:23:26  <Tron> incorrect
05:23:40  <Tron> if you have norev you can join _every_ network game
05:24:38  <Serriaromeo> so i could change the code or just remove svn, so it doesnt get a rev then play with a modified client in any network game?
05:24:43  <Serriaromeo> that sounds like a bug
05:25:01  <Serriaromeo> or at least an exploitable issue
05:26:30  <Tron> it is not exploitable in any way
05:27:35  <Tron> if the integrity of a network game would depend on just that little string THAT would be a bug
05:28:47  <Tron> changing this string is really easy, you can even do it with a hex editor in the binary
05:35:49  <Serriaromeo> ok, that makes sense.
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05:43:06  <Serriaromeo> i'm looking at this sign.c trying to figure out if there is a way to mass delete signs owned by a specfic company or all signs
05:49:23  <Serriaromeo> so would it be possible to have the something like:
05:50:57  <Serriaromeo> for_all_sign(si){ if owner==_current_player;marksigndirty(si);deletesign(si); }
05:51:11  <Serriaromeo> would that do what i'm hoping and just delete the signs by the current player?
06:10:52  <Serriaromeo> oh well,  gn all
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08:24:13  <Steve14> morning all
08:24:17  <peter1138> hi
08:24:57  <Steve14> is there a possibility to import the good old scenarios from TTD to OTTD ?
08:25:21  <peter1138> it should work
08:25:35  <peter1138> as long as it's from plain TTD, not patched.
08:25:41  <peter1138> (even then, it may work)
08:26:58  <Steve14> peter1138: i want to import them from the orginal DOS version ;)
08:28:40  <peter1138> put them in your scenario directory
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08:29:12  <Wolf01> hi
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09:02:06  <Steve14> uhhh, in what files are the scenarios in the dos versions ??
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09:17:46  <Steve14> oki found them ;)
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10:10:22  <erikv> hi
10:11:51  <erikv> does openttd run on net/open bsd?
10:11:57  <hylje> i dont see why not
10:16:33  <erikv> why did I ask? it's even in pkgsrc
10:17:09  <Sacro> heh
10:18:00  <erikv> just did a pkg_add SDL, but it has a hell of a lot deps
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10:18:39  <hylje> sdl is quite versatile
10:18:50  <peter1138> s/versatile/bloated/ ?
10:19:46  <hylje> just like s/feature/bug/
10:21:08  <erikv> much difference btween 0.4.8rc2 and 0.4.8?
10:21:18  <Sacro> svn diff will tell you that :p
10:22:13  <Bjarni> rc2 is a release candidate and we fixed a few bugs before releasing 0.4.8
10:22:26  <Bjarni> so don't use the release candidates now that we got an official release
10:23:20  <erikv> rc2 is in the packages-manager of netbsd as binary
10:23:50  <erikv> 0.4.8 is probably in the next branch, but then I have to compile...on a dual ppro 200 NOT
10:23:53  <Bjarni> then somebody screwed up and added it
10:24:10  <hylje> dual pentium pros? wow
10:24:15  <Bjarni> it was never meant to be added to any package systems and we never did that ourselves
10:24:58  <Sacro> hylje: its just twice as fast as very slow
10:25:25  <Bjarni> we should actually complain about this. They took an unstable source and released it as stable
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10:25:43  <Sacro> Bjarni: thats true
10:25:52  <erikv> Sacro: in fact, running netbsd with simple apps as screen, irssi, elinks and firefox makes it a very nice machine for everyday use
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10:26:26  <erikv> Bjarni: i'll check out who did add it and let him know he should update
10:27:02  <Sacro> erikv: im quite happy with linux
10:27:10  <erikv> it's OK to add a stable version to pkgsrc?
10:27:19  <Sacro> using screen, xchat, and firefox
10:27:27  <peter1138> yes, but rc2 isn't a release :)
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10:30:42  <erikv> actually, in the current branch of pkgsrc 0.4.8 is add, so no more rc's
10:31:08  <Bjarni> it would still be correct to inform him never to add release candidates
10:31:40  <hylje> erikv: elinks AND firefox? ;)
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10:33:58  <erikv> jup, elinks on the console, it's pretty fast, also in ftp browsing, and firefox for lousy incompatible sites/graphical sites
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10:43:34  <Wolf01> tonight frost found a bug in catchement areas while looking to the code to highlight it:
10:43:37  <Wolf01>
10:43:37  <Wolf01>
10:47:04  <Wolf01> i think is due to non uniform stations, the catchement area is treated like a rectangle with width and height of the entire station
10:49:30  <valhallasw> saddam?
10:49:32  <valhallasw> :O
10:49:54  <Wolf01> ah, i don't know, ask frost
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10:50:32  <valhallasw> how big is his spread? :P
10:51:05  <Wolf01> the airport has 8 tiles if i'm not wrong, the bus station 3 tiles
10:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> he said 20, but it doesn't really matter...
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10:53:38  <Wolf01> he did something with a tile loop: this is with custom radius, so doesn't respect the rel radius, only shows that is possible
10:56:53  <Wolf01> but since there is that catchement bug we stop the development of the highlight patch until is fixed (too much work for 1 person, because frost has to teach me also how to do it)
10:58:20  <peter1138> that is how it works, yes
10:58:59  <peter1138> takes the rectangle and applies the largest catchment radius
10:59:37  <hylje> so if i stationwalk from one corner to another
10:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is quite exploitable, isn't it?
10:59:43  <hylje> does the station catch stuff from the whole map
11:00:35  <Maedhros> peter1138: gradual loading!
11:00:43  <hylje> peter1138! newloading!
11:00:53  <Maedhros> ...although i should probably make sure it applies to the latest trunk
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11:06:40  <erikv> got problems compiling 0.4.8 ./configure says something like ( unexpected
11:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... don't use configure
11:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> just "make" should do fine
11:08:01  <erikv> also on netbsd, ie non-linux systems?
11:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's worth a try ;)
11:08:36  <erikv> just make gives a xterm screaming errors :P
11:10:49  <erikv> it just doesn't the job
11:11:09  <erikv> ./configure doesn't work on netbsd, and just make works either
11:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you suppose we just guess what errors it gives?
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11:16:36  <peter1138> try gmake
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11:20:15  <Bjarni> <Wolf01>	he did something with a tile loop: <-- now that looks good, but it can be even better. How about making overlapping tiles highlight with yellow or something?
11:20:58  <Wolf01> so in a station you will see a yellow catchement area?
11:21:22  <Sacro> :o
11:22:11  <Bjarni> no
11:22:28  <Bjarni> so if a tile is in the catchment area of two different stations, it can show up in yellow
11:22:30  <erikv> when i try ./configure it say's
11:22:31  <erikv> $ ./configure
11:22:31  <erikv> ./configure: 6: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
11:23:05  <Bjarni> erikv: configure it meant for the nightly build server (crosscompiling). Try to compile without it
11:23:07  <Wolf01> why not? in a station each tile coverage overlap with other tiles coverage
11:23:13  <Bjarni> just type "make" or "gmake"
11:23:38  <Wolf01> maybe highlight with yellow the coverage of the station you are placing
11:23:55  <Bjarni> Wolf01: I meant if two different stations (two different StationIDs) got the same tile in the catchment area
11:23:59  <Rysiek> [;
11:24:10  <Maedhros> that's better...
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11:24:40  <Wolf01> oh, yes, but if you have 6 statios in that area you will see a checkboard
11:24:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Wolf01> why not? in a station each tile coverage overlap with other tiles coverage <- that counts for basically every tilee except the corners
11:25:01  <Wolf01> and now chestnuts!
11:25:19  <erikv> if I try to compile it with make (on a bsd syst!) it starts with spitting out a 'more ./configure' and then gives a lot of warnings
11:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> (of the catchment area)
11:25:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> so it is useless
11:25:38  <erikv> warning: using previous script for "%.o" defined here or warning: duplicate script for target "%.o" ignored
11:25:40  <Bjarni> erikv: then use gmake
11:26:30  <erikv> doh..
11:26:49  <erikv> my bad, I should have known
11:27:46  <erikv> it seems to compile properly now
11:34:36  <Maedhros> less broken version - :-/
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11:48:01  <erikv> it works! except the sound
11:48:15  <erikv> I just get some ugly noise, no game sounds
11:48:31  <erikv> and -s oss or something like that doesn't work
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11:55:46  <erikv> well..I can't get the sound working, but the game works!
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12:00:18  <erikv> made a commit to the OS matrix
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12:30:25  <MeusH> hello
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12:30:37  <erikv> hi
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13:28:45  <CIA-1> miham * r6778 /trunk/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:28:45  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-15 15:27:37
13:28:45  <CIA-1> brazilian_portuguese - 1 changed by tucalipe (1)
13:28:45  <CIA-1> catalan - 15 changed by arnaullv (15)
13:28:45  <CIA-1> estonian - 6 fixed by vermon (6)
13:28:46  <CIA-1> german - 4 fixed by Neonox (4)
13:28:46  <CIA-1> polish - 5 fixed, 2 changed by meush (7)
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13:33:36  <Darkvater> !seen bjarni
13:33:39  <_42_> Darkvater, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 hour 39 minutes ago (15.10. 11:53) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 48 minutes there.
13:37:48  <peter1138> hello Darkvater
13:38:24  <Darkvater> eya peta'h
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13:49:42  <Maedhros> hmm. something very strange has happened to the waypoint selection box...
13:51:12  <Maedhros> clicking a waypoint doesn't necessarily select that one, but sometimes the first one in the box, even when you scroll sideways
13:51:21  <peter1138> yeah
13:51:30  <peter1138> smells of belugas' change
13:51:42  <glx> again :)
13:52:51  <peter1138> need a +3 at rail_gui.c:1063 & :1065
13:53:44  <glx> exact
13:54:14  <glx> :1030 too
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14:20:56  <MeusH> mr Sacro, good afternoon
14:23:32  <Sacro> Hej Mr MeusH
14:24:12  <MeusH> Siemanko :)
14:25:14  <Sacro> ooh, thats a word i dont know
14:30:57  <MeusH> Something like "sup"
14:31:23  <MeusH> Sie-manko - Jak sie masz - How're you - What's up - sup
14:31:56  <Sacro> ah right
14:32:06  <MeusH> read "Sie" like "Shi" in "Shit"
14:32:08  <Sacro> i know "Jak sie masz"
14:32:17  <MeusH> yea :)
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14:39:33  <ln-> Najlepiej spozy? przed
14:40:59  <MeusH> LOL
14:41:02  <jez> peter1138: what happened to the livery dialog?
14:41:06  <MeusH> "Best (to eat) before"
14:41:09  <jez> there's no secondary livery colours now?
14:41:47  <glx> only if your grfs don't support them
14:42:38  <jez> and what happened to the patch option that lets you not show any custom liveries?
14:43:00  <glx> still present
14:43:04  <jez> where?
14:43:09  <jez> oph
14:43:11  <jez> yes i see it
14:43:28  <Darkvater> !seen BJarni
14:43:30  <_42_> Darkvater, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 2 hours 49 minutes ago (15.10. 11:53) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 48 minutes there.
14:43:44  <jez> i still don't understand why anyone would be interested in seeing other companies' custom liveries
14:43:56  <jez> what if they set all their busses to be red and yours are too?  then you get confused
14:43:58  <jez> what's the point in that
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15:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, you are allowed to talk to each other to not let that happen
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15:08:16  <ln-> would you like to hear my opinion about the whole livery thing? ... ok, i won't say anything.
15:08:29  <Sacro> ln-: good :p
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15:22:10  <MeusH> good, ln- :)
15:22:22  <MeusH> IMO it was just a nice keep-up with TTDP by Peter
15:22:28  <MeusH> but it's pretty much useless
15:23:08  <peter1138> much like newstations
15:23:36  <hylje> eyecandy? in my OTTD?
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15:25:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be that the feature is pretty useless (especially if you, like me, use the DBSet), but somehow i got the feeling that jez is not in a position to complain about it...
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15:39:58  <MeusH> yeah, because peter did a good work on it, and jez did not.
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16:02:01  <jez>
16:02:07  <jez> Request testing of v3 of my patch.
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16:31:01  <glx> jez: cl = IsWindowWidgetLowered(w, widgno) ? 1 : 0; <-- why are you using a ternary ?
16:31:19  <glx> a bool is already 0 or 1
16:31:46  <jez> MeusH: uhm, i didn't do 'good work on it' because i didn't want the feature
16:31:51  <jez> that's a pointless statement
16:31:59  <MeusH> yeah, that's what I meant
16:32:07  <MeusH> sorry if it sounded bad
16:32:34  <jez> glx: cl is of type int, the func returns bool
16:32:48  <jez> to be safe i used that, i don't know if a bool automatically gets converted to 1 or 0
16:32:53  <glx> it's C there's no problem with that
16:32:53  <jez> (it needs to be the number 1 or 0)
16:33:22  <jez> well what does 'true' evaluate to?  is it guaranteed to be 1?  that statement is just clearer really
16:34:43  <glx> ok keep it for now :)
16:34:53  <peter1138> yes
16:35:05  <peter1138> but hmm
16:36:35  <peter1138> in context, i'd say the ternary is fine
16:37:16  <peter1138> Widget gtn = w->widget[widgno]
16:37:17  <peter1138> ?
16:37:23  <peter1138> -g+b ;p
16:38:02  <glx> attribute is a StringID
16:38:16  <peter1138> wouldn't btn have to be a pointer?
16:39:07  <peter1138> not to mention DrawStringRightAligned()
16:39:18  <glx> jez: don't forgot the spaces aroung "+" "-" "/" ...
16:39:32  <jez> peter1138: hrm.  i dont know why that works.  heh
16:39:34  <jez> but it does
16:39:36  <jez> no warnings
16:40:05  <jez> glx: i purposely remove spaces around certain operators for readability.  which ones are you referring to?
16:40:48  <glx> I think removing spaces decrease readability
16:40:59  <jez> GfxFillRect(btn.left+1,, btn.right-1, btn.bottom-1, _colour_gradient[btn.color&0xF][2] | PALETTE_MODIFIER_GREYOUT);
16:41:09  <jez> GfxFillRect(btn.left + 1, + 1, btn.right - 1, btn.bottom - 1, _colour_gradient[btn.color&0xF][2] | PALETTE_MODIFIER_GREYOUT);
16:41:19  <glx> better with spaces
16:41:23  <jez> i prefer the first.  the spaces only being between separate arguments makes it clearer to me.
16:41:31  <jez> *shrug*, personal preference
16:41:46  <glx> just follow the style ;)
16:41:55  <jez> :-(
16:41:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i am of the opinion that spaces in arithmetic expressions can reduce readability...
16:42:00  <peter1138> if ((thisval % 16) >= 9) {thisval-=((thisval%16)-8);}
16:42:06  <peter1138> we already had that discussion ;)
16:42:22  <jez> peter1138: yeah, and that formula was fine...
16:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause> usually, i have the most inner level of operands without spaces, and higher levels with spaces
16:42:45  <jez> Eddi|zuHause: precisely
16:42:47  <jez> i try to do that
16:43:15  <jez> and i also tend to miss out spaces for an operator of higher precedence where two are involved without parentheses
16:43:20  <jez> to make it obvious
16:43:25  <jez> eg. a = 1*2 + 3
16:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that expression fits my statement ;)
16:43:48  <Darkvater> first of all * is *always* before +
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16:43:56  <Darkvater> or if you are unsure, just parenthesize it
16:44:11  <jez> i know it is, but it still makes it clearer at a glance
16:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the compiler does not care for the spaces, it's for the reader...
16:44:31  <jez> missing out spaces is less cluttered than using parentheses
16:45:14  <jez> glx: attribute is changed...
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16:46:55  <Sacro> i think aircraft should have a range...
16:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of priorities... % should be of the same level as * and /, right? so why the parenthesises in peter1138's example?
16:47:04  <Sacro> and higher and they break down instantly
16:47:07  <Sacro> or just crash...
16:47:45  <jez> Sacro: i believe you already get disasters where planes 'run out of fuel'
16:47:48  <jez> bloody annoying too
16:47:56  <jez> almost as annoying as 'random UFO crash destroys bus'
16:48:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: before you do that, you have to code proper waiting circles and priorities for airports
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16:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so a plane does not crash because it had to circle for two months, because the airport was crowded...
16:49:27  <jez> i dont think planes should have a range.  the game specifically avoids refuelling issues, or busses etc would all have to have a range and things would get stupid
16:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i think it would be good to have airplane ranges, but only check the distance between orders... not actual distance the planes fly
16:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause> so only very few planes can actually cross an entire 2048x2048 map
16:51:09  <peter1138> planes don't have a range
16:51:15  <jez> The icons for Bjarni's new depot buttons are crap, the windows are too cluttered, and their functions are non-obvious (2 are clickable, 2 not).  Apart from that, they're fine. :-)
16:51:25  <peter1138> they only run out of fuel if you destroy the airport they were going to
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16:51:27  <jez> why does he get away with checking that in??
16:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> because!
16:52:08  <peter1138> being danish is punishment enough
16:53:52  <jez> weird
16:53:52  <jez>
16:54:04  <jez> Are the post titles meant to look like faux-links?
16:54:50  <peter1138> ..
16:55:03  <peter1138> hmm
16:55:06  <peter1138> weird
16:57:09  <CIA-1> glx * r6779 /trunk/rail_gui.c: -Fix r6631: waypoint selector now correctly shows the current selected waypoint type (thx Maedhros)
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17:01:25  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6780 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove GPMI leftovers (-b impersonisation of AI in MP).
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17:05:25  <jez> argh
17:05:30  <jez> i want a modular AI, damnit
17:05:33  <jez> sigh
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17:09:47  <peter1138> make one
17:09:56  <Sacro> the joys of oss
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17:11:49  <jez> peter1138: correction: i want one built into the trunk
17:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> make one ;)
17:12:15  <jez> someone already did.
17:13:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that one obviously did not make it to trunk ;)
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17:14:07  * XeryusTC pokes KUDr
17:14:18  <KUDr> ?
17:14:46  <XeryusTC> i get the "train can't find route to depot" when i click the goto-depot button while the train is in a tunnel
17:14:49  <XeryusTC> im using yapf
17:15:12  <KUDr> yes, it can happen
17:15:22  <XeryusTC> it always happens :s
17:15:36  <KUDr> yes, it can happen always :)
17:15:58  <XeryusTC> can't you (try to) fix it?
17:16:04  <XeryusTC> it's quite annoying :(
17:16:05  <glx> probably because tunnels are "magic"
17:16:18  <peter1138> should still be able to find a route
17:17:30  <XeryusTC> it doesnt
17:18:06  <KUDr> yapf_rail.cpp (257):
17:18:06  <KUDr> 	Trackdir td = first_in_tunnel ? INVALID_TRACKDIR : GetVehicleTrackdir(v);
17:18:07  <KUDr> 	Trackdir td_rev = last_in_tunnel ? INVALID_TRACKDIR : ReverseTrackdir(GetVehicleTrackdir(last_veh));
17:18:19  <KUDr> this looks like the reason
17:18:33  <KUDr> somebody didn't know how to handle that
17:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> how many somebodys touched that file? :p
17:19:03  <KUDr> 1 (i guess)
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17:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you can easily access the tunnel entrance/exit from such a vehicle
17:20:10  <KUDr> maybe?
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17:23:29  <XeryusTC> Tron probably knows how to do it :)
17:31:14  <peter1138> v->tile
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17:32:52  <peter1138> hmm
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17:50:12  <jez> is it me or is in the Windows TTD distribution slightly corrupted?@
17:50:17  <jez> It doesn't seem to terminate properly.
17:54:20  <ln-> hmmm. some of the files has a very long pause in the end or in the middle.
17:54:40  <jez> only that one seems to cause problems
17:54:52  <jez> it has about a 3 minute silence at the end and a weird piano-only bit
17:55:07  <peter1138> hidden track :D
17:55:12  <jez> i just wonder if the .gm format is quite the same as a .mid
17:55:18  <jez> or whether it should be handled differently
17:55:18  <peter1138> yes
17:55:20  <peter1138> exactly
17:55:22  <ln-> sorry, i meant to say *one* of the files..., not some.
17:55:25  <jez> hmm
17:55:25  <peter1138> ah, well
17:55:27  <peter1138> hmm
17:55:36  <jez> i can't get the original version of ttd windows to install on this box
17:55:39  <peter1138> i've never noticed any issues with them
17:55:42  <jez> so unfortunately i can't tell whether it works on that
17:55:50  <jez> no issues with the MIDIs?
17:55:55  <peter1138> nope
17:56:01  <jez> no few notes out of place anywhere?
17:56:07  <jez> compared to how they sound in DOS?
17:57:26  <jez> 'unable to access transport tycoon deluxe CD!'
17:57:36  <jez> is there a no-cd patch i can use to check the original version out?
17:57:46  <peter1138> yeah, it's called "ttdpatch"
17:58:43  <ln-> hmmm... is there a yes-cd patch i can use with OpenTTD?
17:58:58  <glx> I don't think a nocd is needed to read TTD CD
17:59:15  <jez> i dont have a ttd CD
17:59:16  <jez> hmm
17:59:22  <jez> i wonder what drive it's looking at
17:59:36  <jez> i need to fool it into thinking my install-from folder is the cd
17:59:44  <ln-> you should buy the game instead.
18:00:10  <glx> I used fakecd long time ago for things like that
18:00:53  <ln-> btw, does someone know where i could buy TTD?
18:01:03  <glx> ebay?
18:01:24  <ln-> let's see..
18:01:36  <jez> glx: have you got the windows original version of TTD working without the physical cd?
18:02:15  <glx> hmm yes (I don't have TTD cd)
18:03:07  <glx> anyway the original windows TTD doesn't work with XP
18:03:17  <jez> not at all?
18:03:26  <jez> what problem do you have getting it to work?
18:03:27  <glx> you need ttdpatch to fix it
18:04:16  <jez> i'd like to get the original working to see if the MIDIs work better in it
18:04:24  <jez> if they do it's probably because it uses a built-in synthesizer
18:04:35  <jez> looking at the config dialog before the game runs it looks like it might have that option
18:04:49  <glx> can't remember
18:08:11  <jez> where can i find ttdpatch for ttd windows original?  could you send it perhaps?
18:09:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it is safe to assume that you find ttdpatch on ;)
18:09:06  <peter1138>
18:09:54  <ln-> are we giving advice on how to run warezed games here?
18:11:12  <peter1138> no, it's advice on how to run ttd under windows xp
18:11:20  <peter1138> *obviously*
18:12:57  <hylje> or how to run backups
18:15:29  <ln-> i would like to remind all the finnish citizens and people living in finland that participating such a discussion is illegal.
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18:20:32  <Zavior> Oh my
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18:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you finnish have strange laws...
18:29:08  <hylje> sure
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19:01:48  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6781 /trunk/table/town_land.h: - Fix (r5926): Some house introduction dates were incorrectly adjusted in the move to 32bit dates.
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19:08:14  <jez> DaleStan: what is that comment meant to mean?
19:09:39  <DaleStan> jez: Loop Asked if that patch would be tested. That seems like a silly question to ask, since the only person who can cause Loop to test that patch (or any patch) is Loop.
19:09:59  <jez> oh heh
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20:46:15  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6782 /trunk/train_cmd.c: - Fix (r3947): Invalidate depot & vehicle windows when reversing a single engine with ctrl-click.
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21:13:46  <peter1138> nini
21:21:49  <MeusH> what do you mean by ctrl-click? What do you mean by "reversing"?
21:22:02  <Sacro> MeusH: ctrl-click
21:22:09  <Sacro> = hold ctrl and click
21:22:10  <Sacro> :p
21:22:12  <MeusH> well
21:22:20  <MeusH> I mean, when, where?
21:22:21  <Sacro> and it reverses the direction of a train
21:22:26  <glx> in depot
21:22:28  <Sacro> oh, inside a depot
21:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not of a train, of the engine
21:22:52  <MeusH> Sacro: where shall I click it to reverse the direction?
21:22:56  <MeusH> glx, thanks, I'll try it out
21:23:20  <Sacro> MeusH: on the front train
21:25:26  <MeusH> mmm, nice feature
21:25:53  <glx> it's an old one :)
21:26:10  <MeusH> ctrl+click in a short wagon moves it to the rear (and to the front, each second ctrlclick) - is it intended, or a bug?
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21:26:27  <glx> a known bug I'd say
21:27:04  <MeusH> okies
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21:30:57  <jez> Is anyone aware of software that'll let you capture wave output from a running program (or just all running programs) in Windows?
21:31:30  <Sacro> sndrec32!
21:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> any recording program can do that
21:31:38  <jez> Eddi|zuHause: not so.
21:31:45  <jez> Eddi|zuHause: i have cool edit 2000 and can only record from my mic
21:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you just have to unmute that sound source in the settings
21:32:03  <jez> the sound source isn't there
21:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause> in the windows sound settings
21:32:27  <jez> i only have CD player, line in, and microphone
21:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> then click on "advanced" and select more to show
21:33:34  <jez> 'mono mix', 'stereo mix', 'aux' 'SPDIF'
21:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, mix should do it...
21:34:06  <Sacro> stereo mix
21:34:12  <jez> but then i dont know how to select that source from a recording program
21:34:20  <jez> oh i see
21:34:23  <jez> there's a 'select' checkbox
21:34:29  <jez> that's badly implemented, it should be radio buttons
21:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but technically, it should list something like "wave" also
21:35:51  <jez> hmm
21:35:54  <jez> pretty damn awful quality
21:35:55  <jez> :-\
21:36:02  <jez> Aux?
21:36:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what "aux" is supposed to be...
21:36:31  <Darkvater> !seen bjarni
21:36:31  <_42_> Darkvater, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 9 hours 42 minutes ago (15.10. 11:53) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 48 minutes there.
21:36:46  <Darkvater> that 2349ijrqwe9f0jawdfoij where's he when you need him?
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21:39:31  <jez> Denmark, eating smoked bacon and drawing Mohammed cartoons
21:39:54  <Sacro> jez: thats very stereotypical
21:40:40  <jez> yeah
21:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> opposing to Sacro's open mind, that can even distinguish between danish and dutch ;)
21:41:49  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: danish = dutch for most intents and porpuses
21:42:07  <Sacro> could probably deduce that dutch = deautsch
21:42:29  <jez> Sacro: both make good bacon.
21:43:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: could you get into kinda bit of trouble if you go to denmark to buy "stuff" ;)
21:44:16  <Sacro> jez: well then im not gonna go hungry
21:44:21  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: depends what kinda "stuff"
21:44:51  <MeusH> !seen Bjarni you moron
21:44:53  <_42_> MeusH, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 9 hours 50 minutes ago (15.10. 11:53) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 48 minutes there.
21:44:57  <MeusH> :o
21:48:26  <jez> Recording samples of 'Easy Driver' now to show what I mean about slightly incorrect music in OpenTTD
21:48:33  <jez> I'd like to see if we can correct it
21:48:48  <jez> Somehow, the DOS versions play correctly
21:49:12  <jez> I fear they've been converted badly/buggily for the Windows version, which would mean getting the music information from the original DOS version somehow
21:55:17  <jez>
21:55:24  <jez>
21:55:57  <jez> TTD DOS is how it's meant to sound
21:56:23  <jez> there are a few off-notes in the OpenTTD general MIDI rendition, and it happens a bit in other tracks too
21:57:45  <Brianetta> jez: That's down to the midi player alone
21:57:55  <jez> really?
21:58:11  <jez> you don't think it's a bad conversion from the DOS data to general midi for windows?
21:58:19  <Brianetta> Well, put it this way
21:58:30  <Brianetta> I use the original DOS data on Linux
21:58:35  <Brianetta> There has been no conversion
21:58:38  <jez> how?
21:58:41  <Brianetta> and it's different again
21:58:49  <Brianetta> How?  It's general MIDI
21:59:19  <jez> DOS?  please tell me how to get at the original DOS MIDI data
21:59:21  <glx> is not usable
21:59:52  <Sacro> does TTDP not use
22:00:35  <glx> ttdp should use it as it is a patched ttd
22:01:23  <glx> but ottd can't use it (nobody found a way to use it yet)
22:01:34  <Wolf01> the files are midi files, you can open them with any midi program like noteworthy composer, anvil studio, van basco's karaoke player etc
22:02:56  <jez> anvil studio, isn't that free?
22:03:36  <Wolf01> the cat file seem a kind of archive, if you open it with notepad you see some .wav filenames
22:03:51  <jez> Wolf01: everything I've opened those .gm files with in Windows has given me the same incorrect notes
22:04:03  <jez> it makes me think that there's a problem with the midi files themselves
22:04:13  <glx> jez: so your midi synthesizer is wrong
22:04:42  <jez> erm
22:04:47  <jez> put it another way
22:04:52  <Sacro> mmmmmm, Zernebok Radio is amazing tonight
22:05:02  <jez> does anyone's midi synthesizer in windows play it like ttddos.mp3 ?
22:05:12  <jez> (the .gm file)
22:05:38  <Brianetta> More to the point, does anybody's DOS player play it like that?
22:05:47  <jez> if you're using DOSbox it should yes
22:05:49  <Brianetta> I remember playing TTD with an AWE32 for the first time
22:06:01  <jez> and when i used to play with a native DOS card it also played it like that
22:06:11  <Darkvater> what's the link Sacro ?
22:06:11  <Brianetta> There's no such thing as a native DOS card
22:06:28  <Sacro>
22:06:30  <Sacro> the who :D
22:06:49  <Sacro> Brianetta: i had my lovely shiny SB16
22:06:57  <jez> Brianetta: Yes there is, a soundcard that synthesizes its own FM or MIDI
22:07:04  <jez> i'm not sure which the DOS TTD outputs
22:07:05  <Brianetta> jez: Hardly native to DOS
22:07:11  <jez> native to the output
22:07:17  <jez> hardware synthesis
22:07:23  <Darkvater> Brianetta: I still have my AWE32 card..huge monster ;p
22:07:25  <Brianetta> No two FM synths I had sounded alike
22:07:39  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Yeah.  I couldn't afford one of my own
22:07:41  <jez> still, the melody should have been the same
22:07:46  <jez> the pitch of the notes shouldn't change
22:08:12  <glx> it depends on synthesizer instruments
22:09:30  <jez> hmm
22:09:47  <jez> well then i'd say the windows synthesizer is wrong, not as the original artist intended
22:09:53  <Wolf01> i tried with van basco's and with NWC, 2 different sounds, the first uses the sound drivers synthetizer, the second its own synthetizer
22:10:07  <Wolf01> both are different from the ottd sound
22:10:17  <jez> but what about the melody?
22:10:23  <Wolf01> the same
22:10:34  <jez> same as my dos recording or openttd recording?
22:10:43  <Wolf01> instruments are different but the melody is the same
22:10:46  <jez> same as my dos recording or openttd recording?
22:11:07  <jez> dos/dosbox
22:11:07  <glx> I compared your mp3 with the music I get in openttd, the melody is the same
22:11:15  <jez> i posted 2 mp3s
22:11:27  <glx> the dos one :)
22:11:44  <jez> right
22:11:49  <jez> that's the correct melody i think
22:11:54  <glx> the melody is the same
22:11:55  <jez> hmm
22:12:06  <Wolf01> so there isn't a bug, simply different programs use different synthetizers
22:12:10  <glx> but the "feeling" is different
22:12:23  <Wolf01> maybe the ottd one doesn't have some instruments and you notice a pause
22:12:31  <jez> well can't we put a software synth in openTTD that correctly synthesizes the MIDIs?
22:12:39  <jez> rather than leaving it to the crappy default in windows?
22:13:20  <glx> I think using an external midi synthesizer (like timidity++ for linux) should be possible
22:13:25  <Wolf01> i vote for mp3 music
22:13:51  <jez> Wolf01: as the music files themselves are probably copyrighted and have to be copied from the original, not likely
22:13:54  <jez> the original didn't come with mp3s
22:14:25  <Brianetta> glx: SDL in Linux *does* use Timidity
22:14:35  <jez> is there.... a player i can use in windows that will use Timidity?
22:14:38  <Wolf01> we are making new graphics, when the mp3 support will be done, we could make new musics
22:14:46  <Brianetta> Little Red Diesel sounds very different on different synths
22:14:54  <glx> Brianetta: yes but openttd uses it as external player :)
22:14:58  <Wolf01> (is hard to find people who make nice music in midi)
22:15:45  <Sacro> yes, for nice music you need mods :d
22:16:01  <jez> i'm wondering what synthesizer DOSbox uses
22:16:10  <jez> because it sounds 'correct' in DOSbox
22:16:15  <jez> perhaps it does with Timidity too
22:16:29  <Brianetta> Which OS are you running DOSbox on?
22:16:32  <jez> what it doesn't sound right in is Microsoft GS wavetable synth
22:16:37  <jez> Windows
22:16:43  <Brianetta> I only have the Linux one
22:17:24  <jez> Brianetta: wow, those do sound different
22:17:31  <jez> not like im used to
22:17:36  <jez> less presence
22:17:45  <jez> that's Timidity's rendition is it?
22:17:52  <Darkvater> timidity is so much crap
22:17:55  <Brianetta> That's a loaded question
22:17:56  <Darkvater> eats about 40% cpu
22:18:06  <jez> yeah it sounds pretty awful actually
22:18:11  <jez> DOSbox's synth
22:18:12  <Brianetta> I have about 250MB of patches loaded in Timidity
22:18:14  <jez> what is DOSbox using
22:18:15  <jez> hmm
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22:18:34  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I only use Timidity once, then compress the output to MP3
22:18:45  <Wolf01> dosbox uses MPU-401
22:19:00  <jez> erm
22:19:12  <jez> are there any pre-compiled timidity binaries for windows with a decent UI?
22:19:20  <Wolf01>
22:19:23  <jez> they dont seem to have bothered with one at the sourceforge page
22:21:26  <jez> 'AWE32 General MIDI Mudic'
22:22:13  <jez> no, forget that
22:22:19  <jez> 'General MIDI', MPU-401 compatible
22:22:26  <jez> that's the setting I chose to get that DOSbox output
22:22:37  <jez> So it's DOSbox's MPU-401 emulation I like
22:22:41  <jez> hmm
22:23:15  <Sacro> :o THE A TEAM
22:25:32  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:27:25  <jez> Think TTD DOS might actually modify the MIDI output a bit?
22:27:33  <jez> in a way that TTD Windows doesn't?
22:27:36  <jez> seems very unlikely
22:31:09  <jez> heh
22:31:13  <jez> Timidity is crap
22:31:19  <jez> i thought it was a superior synthesizer
22:32:15  <ln-> what's crap about it?
22:33:08  <jez> i'm listening to some of Brianetta's MP3 extracts from it now
22:33:29  <Naksu> ln-: it's on par with the "general midi" option of OLD games
22:33:39  <jez> they sound totally different to how most SoundBlaster cards outputted it
22:33:40  <Naksu> a good softsynthethizer is like the yamaha ones
22:33:43  <Brianetta> jez: You're blaming the tool.  Blame the workman.
22:33:53  <Brianetta> I don't have a typical patchset.
22:34:02  <ln-> the goodness of Timidity entirely depends on the instrument files you use with it.
22:34:12  <jez> Brianetta: does it come with its own wavetable or do you have to use another one?
22:34:25  * Sacro uses freepats
22:34:27  <Brianetta> It uses GUS patches.
22:34:34  <Brianetta> There's a wide variety.
22:34:45  <jez> wow
22:34:52  <jez> didnt know GUS was in any way 'compatible' with MIDI
22:34:57  <Brianetta> Mine is a mish-mash of several, including wowpats - have a listen to any of the piano-only tracks, and you'll hear an amazing render.
22:35:14  <Brianetta> jez, GUS *is* MIDI
22:35:22  <Brianetta> The Ultrasound was a midi card only
22:35:24  <jez> i'm sure you will but I'm interested really in getting a rendition as close as possible to how I guess it was intended to sound
22:35:41  <jez> then why was a distinction usually drawn between GUS and general midi?
22:36:03  <Naksu> gravis
22:36:12  <Brianetta> because GUS was entirely dependant on GUS compatible patches
22:36:26  <Brianetta> There are GM tonebanks for it
22:36:31  <Naksu> the company behind the joypad i bought in the 90's and still have
22:36:39  <Naksu> and it works
22:36:45  <jez> i managed to get GUS emulation working with DOSbox
22:36:47  <jez> didn't think much of it
22:37:07  <jez> I still wanna know how DOSbox does its MPU-401 emulation
22:37:11  <jez> i think that's the output I want
22:37:31  <jez> the wiki just says "A MIDI passthrough interface is also emulated. This method of sound output will only work when used with a General Midi or MT-32 device."
22:37:34  <jez> not very informative
22:39:55  <Brianetta> DOSbox does nothing on my setup
22:39:58  <Brianetta> no MIDI at all
22:40:13  <jez> is MPU-401 emulation enabled in the conf file?
22:40:23  <Brianetta> oh wait
22:40:30  <Brianetta> it does GUS umulation with Timidity
22:40:32  <Brianetta> heh (:
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22:40:42  <Sacro> ALSA:Can't subscribe to MIDI port (65:0)
22:40:46  <jez> mpu401=intelligent
22:40:46  <jez> device=default
22:40:47  <Sacro> MIDI:Opened device:oss
22:41:00  <jez> ahh
22:41:01  <Brianetta> You have an OSS midi device
22:41:23  <jez> i get opened MIDI:Opened device:win32
22:41:31  <jez> hmmmm
22:41:46  <jez> that would kind of suggest it should sound identical to when I play it in openTTD
22:41:48  <jez> but it doesnt
22:43:14  <jez> Yamaha do make good MIDI synthesizers
22:43:20  <jez> shame they're never bloody well free
22:43:31  <jez> you'd think they might give em away free by now, MIDI is old
22:44:52  <ln-> what's new then?
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22:45:50  <Brianetta> MIDI is old.  So is text.  Perhaps Microsoft should give Word away.
22:45:59  <Brianetta> MIDI might be old, but it's still commercially alive.
22:46:05  <jez> Microsoft give notepad away free
22:46:09  <jez> that's kind of the equivalent to midi
22:46:11  <Brianetta> No, they do not.
22:46:15  <jez> ok.
22:46:19  <jez> VIM is free and Free.
22:46:34  <Brianetta> So is Timidity.
22:46:38  <Brianetta> Alternatives exist.
22:47:37  <jez> right
22:47:46  <MeusH> Timidity for win?
22:47:48  <jez> so why would DOSbox's MIDI output sound different from OpenTTD's?
22:48:44  <ln-> jez: where have you seen Microsoft giving notepad away for free?
22:49:00  <jez> i withdraw that
22:49:08  <Sacro> notepad costs...
22:49:14  <MeusH> on CD labelled "Win XP" from friend :D
22:49:17  <Sacro> at least £60
22:49:23  <Sacro> MeusH: heh, i have that CD too
22:49:24  <jez> however there are a billion-and-one free text editors.
22:49:40  <MeusH> I'm very happy Notepad++
22:49:40  <jez> there are no free decent MIDI synthesizers
22:49:54  <MeusH> I'm very happy *with* Notepad++
22:50:02  <MeusH> geez that sounded badly :P
22:50:24  <Sacro> MeusH: so did that
22:50:27  <ln-> jez: could it be because good MIDI synthesizers aren't that easy and quick to make, and that's why companies want money for them?
22:50:43  <jez> ln-: hmmmmm
22:50:52  <jez> the thing about MIDI synthesizers is, once you've made them that's it
22:51:02  <jez> you dont have to update the technology or anything, it's just there
22:51:08  <MeusH> yeah Sacro
22:51:08  <jez> the onetime code is paid for many time over by now
22:51:12  <MeusH> pretty much humiliating
22:51:12  <jez> *cost
22:51:36  <ln-> jez: so? ... that means it's a very good business if it brings money and doesn't need maintenance.
22:52:08  <jez> yeah, i guess i dont know why someone hasnt just ripped off Yamaha's by now
22:52:13  <jez> and given it away for free
22:52:13  <glx> jez: good midi synthesizer are generally hardware not software
22:52:20  <jez> glx: eh?
22:52:36  <jez> Yamaha's trial software synth is very nice i think
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23:01:31  <jez> Brianetta: I see your Timidity extraction has made the same bizarre error with 'Can't get there from here' as my Windows synthesizers
23:01:41  <jez> the song has about 3 minutes of silence at the end
23:01:51  <Brianetta> The long gap followed by  piano tinkle
23:01:52  <jez> how come that doesn't happen in the DOS TTD?
23:03:18  <jez> i've got a good mind to rip the MIDI out of DOSBox
23:03:24  <jez> then try to play that using a windows synth
23:03:29  <jez> that might actually sound better
23:03:36  <Brianetta> ?
23:03:51  <Brianetta> It's a bit either/or
23:03:52  <jez> DOSBox is cool, you can actually take MIDI output and write it as a MIDI file rather than WAV
23:04:32  <Brianetta> If you take its MIDI data and pipe it to Windows' MIDI device, it'll sound like Windows' MIDI device
23:04:49  <jez> but somehow the DOS version avoids the gap at the end of can't get there from here
23:04:53  *** Kjetil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:54  <jez> it won't have that
23:05:04  <Brianetta> Are you playing that track from TTD?
23:05:14  <jez> im playing it in dos now just to check it doesnt have it
23:05:22  <Brianetta> With which player?
23:05:39  <jez> ...dosbox, with device:win32
23:05:45  <Brianetta> wait
23:05:56  <Brianetta> how are you getting dosbox to play a midi file?
23:06:07  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:06:09  <jez> well that's the thing, im not 100% sure how dosbox emulates midi
23:06:21  <Brianetta> You don't emulate MIDI
23:06:22  <jez> i thought it actually had its own synth but the wiki describes it as a passthrough interface
23:06:31  <Brianetta> yes
23:06:41  <jez> yes, and it doesnt have that gap at the end of can't get there from here
23:06:41  <Brianetta> dosbox is a dos emulator.
23:06:45  <jez> it's just gone right on to the next tune
23:06:51  <Sacro> it passes the midi through to the win32 synth
23:06:54  <Brianetta> Which piece of software are you running in that emulator to play MIDI files
23:06:56  <Brianetta> ?
23:07:02  <jez> so i dunno, the DOS TTD binary is doing something with the MIDI info that is different
23:07:09  <Brianetta> Ah, TTD
23:07:14  <jez> yep
23:07:23  <Brianetta> Perhaps TTD knows how long the track shoul dbe and skips to the next
23:07:32  <Brianetta> so that there's little to no pause
23:07:37  <jez> yeah but it seems to have a slightly different melody on some tracks
23:07:39  <jez> which is weird
23:07:41  <Brianetta> Perhaps the slicence is, in fact, still playuing
23:07:44  <Brianetta> crass-faded
23:07:44  <jez> i dont understand that
23:07:53  <Brianetta> er, cross-faded
23:08:01  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: YOU! It was you wasn't it!?]
23:08:03  <jez> nah because if it were still playing you'd hear that weird little piano roll 3 minutes later
23:08:05  <jez> and you dont
23:08:10  <jez> it's just stopped playing
23:08:23  <Brianetta> Perhaps it stops after the length of the track has passed by
23:08:24  *** Trenskow [] has joined #openttd
23:08:32  <Brianetta> It knows which tracks are old and which are modern
23:08:45  <Brianetta> so perhaps it just knows how long they are, and stops playing them in favour of the next
23:08:54  <jez> so the theory is, whoever wrote the TTD music was so bad at outputting general MIDI that it was all corrupted, and Chris Sawyer had to hardcode track lengths in?
23:09:02  <Brianetta> Pretty much.
23:09:06  <jez> despite MIDIs having their own natural end
23:09:20  <Brianetta> MIDIs have no natural end; they can contain jumps and loops
23:09:28  <jez> or maybe my theory is correct, that the extracted GM files (from were extracted badly and not quite right
23:09:41  <jez> didnt know that
23:09:44  <Brianetta> is probably all one MIDI file
23:09:55  <jez> try and play it in a midi player
23:10:02  <Brianetta> I don't have it
23:10:04  <Brianetta> handy
23:10:08  <glx> I can't recognize midi stuff inside
23:10:16  <Brianetta> It'll be compressed
23:10:24  <Brianetta> well, hopefully
23:10:25  <jez> I did
23:10:30  <jez> yeah it doesnt just play
23:10:43  <jez> i'll try ripping the midi with dosbox
23:10:49  <jez> might be able to improve on the windows ones
23:11:08  <jez> then i'll have to use anvil studio to separate the tracks out
23:11:12  <jez> not easy to do cleanly
23:13:15  *** PandaMojo_ [] has joined #openttd
23:13:40  <jez> actually raises the question of who extracted that file into GM files and why they bothered
23:13:46  <jez> it worked perfectly well before they did that
23:14:27  <glx> ask Chris Sawyer :)
23:14:36  <jez> not sure it was him
23:14:42  <jez> Hasbro converted it to windows
23:17:50  <jez> Hah!!
23:17:53  <jez> Looks like I was right
23:17:57  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:17:58  *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo
23:18:05  <jez> the ripped DOSbox output sounds correct when played on the windows synth
23:18:12  <jez> the TTD Windows GM files don't
23:18:22  <jez> now I need to rip all the songs from the dos version and distribute them
23:18:38  <jez> the problem is not with my synthesizer, it's with the windows TTD .gm files
23:18:40  <glx> you can't
23:18:46  <jez> hmm
23:18:54  <glx> distribute them
23:19:05  <jez> well.
23:19:41  <jez> i doubt anyone would really complain
23:19:59  <jez> people are using the original .gms anyway
23:20:05  <jez> these will just sound more authentic
23:21:48  <Sacro> night all
23:21:55  <jez> night
23:24:11  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-247-143.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:31:34  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6783 /trunk/network.c: -Codechange: Allow ParseConnectionString to allow players with more than one digit
23:35:33  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6784 /trunk/players.c: -Codechange: Change invalid PlayerID type into ClientID which it is in CmdPlayerCtrl
23:37:20  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6785 /trunk/network.c:
23:37:20  <CIA-1> -Cleanup: Remove unused _network_playas from NetworkAddServer. This function
23:37:20  <CIA-1>  only adds favourite servers to the list, does nothing with regards to connection
23:41:58  <Serriaromeo> how difficult would it be to have the server list sort by revision?
23:42:06  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has joined #openttd
23:42:27  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6786 /trunk/ (network_client.c network_server.c):
23:42:27  <CIA-1> -Codechange: To join a new company CMD_PLAYER_CTRL is executed with so far a
23:42:27  <CIA-1>  local spectator (awaiting assignment from server). Since a spectator cannot
23:42:27  <CIA-1>  execute any commands, a local player is impersonated. Move this impersonation
23:42:27  <CIA-1>  to the server side where CMD_PLAYER_CTRL is handled specially anyways.
23:43:42  <Serriaromeo> Darkvater is on a roll
23:43:51  <MeusH> yeah :)
23:44:07  <MeusH> Serriaromeo, someone made a patch regarding network window
23:44:14  <MeusH> including many filters IIRC
23:44:24  <MeusH> but I don't know what happened with that
23:44:42  *** Spoco [] has quit []
23:45:10  <Serriaromeo> i had a patch that would massdelete signs, but i accidently reverted the changes
23:45:20  <Serriaromeo> before i made the diff
23:48:37  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6787 /trunk/ (6 files):
23:48:37  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Use PLAYER_NEW_COMPANY as a player identifier wishing to become a
23:48:37  <CIA-1>  new player instead of a 0.
23:48:45  *** PandaMojo_ [] has joined #openttd
23:49:44  <MeusH> too bad
23:49:55  <MeusH> hopefully, you'll re-write it much faster
23:53:57  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:54:08  *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo
23:54:54  <Serriaromeo> i hope i can figure out what i did to make it work,  i know i called the function that is alreay in place to remove signs, it basicly just mass renamed the signs owned by a given company to null, which deleted them.

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