Log for #openttd on 27th October 2006:
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00:06:32  <CIA-1> glx * r6949 /branches/MiniIN/ (station_gui.c subsidiaries_gui.c): [MiniIN] -Fix: some WWT_IMGBTN without image weren't replaced by WWT_PANEL
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00:08:00  * Born_Acorn can play the game
00:08:22  <Born_Acorn> I am good at the game.
00:08:30  <Born_Acorn> The game I can not lose.
00:08:38  <Born_Acorn> Yes.
00:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause3>
00:13:37  <Sacro> Sionide: heh... sorry
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00:54:09  <CIA-1> glx * r6950 /branches/MiniIN/subsidiaries_gui.c: [MiniIN] -Fix r6914: wrong enabled/disabled state in subsidiaries management window
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03:17:52  <CIA-1> glx * r6951 /branches/MiniIN/ (lang/english.txt order_gui.c): [MiniIN] -Fix: 'Loading/Service' button caption and 'go to station' order string drawing
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03:29:29  <CIA-1> glx * r6952 /branches/MiniIN/order_gui.c: [MiniIN] -Fix r6951: 'Loading/Service' button caption for non train vehicles
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06:03:49  <jonwil> hi
06:04:42  <jonwil> Is there an effort anywhere to create a completly free set of graphics (and sounds and such) to go with OpenTTD?
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06:59:00  <Celestar> morning
06:59:41  <peter1138> hi
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07:40:10  <Celestar> ...
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07:42:44  <Celestar> ok
07:42:53  <Celestar> this university is offcially nuts
07:43:46  <Tron_> elite-nuts
07:43:51  <Celestar> yeah
07:44:46  <Celestar> if you do a private phone call you pay: 6 ct/90 seconds for a local call, 10ct / minute for a long distance, and 29ct / minute to mobile phones
07:46:12  <Celestar> at home, I pay: 0ct  for local calls, 0ct for national calls, 0ct for calls into the EU and USA and 10ct / minute to mobiles
07:46:57  <Celestar> and I somehow doubt that I, as a single end-user, get better fares than some university with 10000s of phones
07:47:31  <Celestar> solution to problem. I don't do any "private" phone calls anymore :-S
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07:49:00  <peter1138> of course
07:49:07  <peter1138> but you, at home, as a single end-user
07:49:12  <Celestar> or at least, I don't mark them as such :P
07:49:26  <peter1138> are no university with thousands of students to rape
07:55:15  <Celestar> seems so
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08:11:05  <chu_> hi
08:11:27  <chu_> i am preparing some posters for an exhibition where i will present openttd
08:11:42  <chu_> i could need some help with some graphics
08:13:46  <chu_> some months ago (or even years) i found a chart showing the cargo-flow-graph between various industries
08:14:00  <chu_> does anyone know where it might be?
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08:48:14  <Darkvater> goddamn and I thoughythis channel was dead
08:48:34  <Darkvater> last thing I had was 'Day changed to 27 Oct 2006'
08:48:46  <peter1138> needed to scroll down? :p
08:49:01  <Darkvater> only this morning did I realize I had the server window open and not #OPENTTD
08:49:06  <peter1138> lol
08:49:31  <peter1138> btw, feel free to move CountBits() ;p
08:50:47  <Darkvater> chu_: somewhere on the forums :P
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08:58:01  * Darkvater needs to do something to wake up
08:58:03  <Darkvater> bbrb
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09:07:09  <PolestaR> 3d version of openttd
09:07:45  <peter1138> where?
09:07:51  <PolestaR> thats what im asking
09:07:56  <peter1138> oh
09:07:56  <PolestaR> is it in the progress pipe
09:07:58  <peter1138> what was a question?
09:08:02  <peter1138> *that
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09:09:14  <PolestaR> should be fairly simple.. the gfx are actually easier to do in a 3d esque 2d game
09:09:25  <peter1138> sure
09:09:31  <peter1138> there are no plans, however
09:09:31  <PolestaR> as in.. the railroads are gridded to a 2d map
09:09:41  <PolestaR> not a freeform mess like Railroads!
09:10:15  <peter1138> also depends on how you define 3d
09:10:27  <peter1138> because we already render a 3d viewpoint
09:10:34  <PolestaR> well if openttd was designed well and separated the graphics from engine.. 2d would be relatively simple to tack on i feel
09:10:39  <PolestaR> but i havent seen the source
09:10:52  <PolestaR> you mean isometric
09:11:47  <peter1138> isometric is just a type of 3d projection
09:11:50  <PolestaR> err 3d would be relatively simple i meant
09:12:05  <PolestaR> yes.. well i meant a 3d engine as the middleman.. not a 2d one
09:12:11  <PolestaR> even though they both end up 2d
09:12:50  <peter1138> < 3D
09:13:26  <PolestaR> ?
09:13:47  <peter1138> hmm?
09:13:51  <Tobin> peter1138: I don't think your point will be taken.
09:14:21  <Tobin> peter1138: 3D doesn't actually mean what it should to kids nowadays.
09:14:36  <PolestaR> well i understand what he is saying though  i just hope he gets my point
09:15:03  <Tobin> Kind of like what American television did to "plot" and "character development".
09:15:23  <Tobin> PolestaR: I'd imagine he does, I just don't think he cares.
09:15:27  <PolestaR> my main focus on 3d is actually because it makes development easier Tobin
09:15:35  <Tobin> Heh.
09:15:39  <PolestaR> something you would understand if you were a programmer
09:15:45  <Tobin> I can promise you that it doesn't.
09:15:49  <Darkvater> Day changed to 27 Oct 2006Day changed to 27 Oct 2006
09:15:54  <Darkvater> eeh
09:16:02  <Tobin> "something you would understand if you were a programmer" <-- That's rich.
09:16:22  <PolestaR> "<Tobin> peter1138: 3D doesn't actually mean what it should to kids nowadays." <-- That's rich.
09:16:23  * Tobin wanders off
09:16:24  <PolestaR> ;)
09:16:35  <KUDr_wrk> Tobin: so you must become programer :)
09:16:56  <Tobin> KUDr_wrk: Again?
09:17:09  <Tobin> I want my patches back!
09:17:13  <KUDr_wrk> i don't know, maybe
09:17:23  <Tobin> You can have them again when I'm a programmer.
09:17:30  <KUDr_wrk> you must start again from the scratch ;)
09:17:34  <PolestaR> also look at this screen
09:17:35  <PolestaR>
09:17:41  <PolestaR> it looks like a mess
09:18:14  <PolestaR> running into the problems of representing something 3d with 2d abstractions
09:18:36  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: what 3D features you mean? Full camera rotatition/zoom?
09:18:55  <PolestaR> well that could be added.. but
09:19:05  <Darkvater> I think we have a different definiation of 'looks like a mess'
09:19:08  <KUDr_wrk> or what you mean by 3D
09:19:21  <PolestaR> i mostly mean.. once you go 3d.. the models.etc makes it easier to function how it should without any hacks
09:19:33  <KUDr_wrk> no
09:19:42  <PolestaR> and future gfx updates are easier to implement
09:19:46  <Darkvater> PolestaR: you are welcome to show us a wip of what it looks like :)
09:19:50  <PolestaR> since the scale doesnt change
09:19:53  <Darkvater> then we can actually make educated decisions
09:19:53  <Tobin> Careful KUDr_wrk, you shouldn't comment on these things until you're a programmer apparently.
09:20:01  <KUDr_wrk> this is only about how you draw your models - either as 3d models or as ordered sprites
09:20:21  <KUDr_wrk> Tobin: ahhh, then sorry
09:20:27  * Tobin wanders off to do the dishes.
09:20:38  <PolestaR> its about how you represent the world visually
09:20:43  <Tobin> KUDr_wrk: Hehe. :)
09:20:57  <PolestaR> atm its a faked 3d .. there is a reason its trying to be 3d right
09:21:02  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: visually it can be the same result
09:21:33  <PolestaR> well.. some would say 2d allows for more detail in these sorts of games
09:22:07  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: then we need to trash all graphics and start drawing models and textures - lot of work, but what will be the benefits?
09:22:12  <PolestaR> but its a fixed viewpoint.. and in the screen i showed.. you need to be able to remove buildings and etc to lay tracks around buildings
09:22:42  <PolestaR> i agree.. but the work done.. mostly has to only be done once
09:22:57  <KUDr_wrk> Then you need camera rotation or building transparency - the second one is there
09:23:03  <PolestaR> and different textures for same models allows more flexability
09:23:18  <Darkvater> < anybody against this? I kept the 20% rule in there because then I do not have to find the end of the current string
09:23:19  <KUDr_wrk> true, but who will do that
09:23:24  <PolestaR> ie instead of 15 different trees
09:23:30  <PolestaR> with snow.. without.. autumn etc
09:23:40  <PolestaR> its one tree and some simple textures
09:23:42  <Tron_> PolestaR: go ahead, write it, come back when you're done, kthxbye
09:24:03  <PolestaR> openttd is a fun game
09:24:21  <PolestaR> sorry if it seems im too critical
09:24:37  <Tron_> <PolestaR> its one tree and some simple textures <--- yeah, all trees have the same shape. when were you last in the big blue room?
09:24:42  <KUDr_wrk> not critical, but bit unrealistic i guess
09:25:51  <PolestaR> aye maybe.. but oneday if openttd development continues it will go 3d i think
09:26:09  <Darkvater> Open3TD
09:26:15  <Darkvater> Op3nTTD
09:26:39  <KUDr_wrk> personally i think it would be fun to draw 3d models, but who will make those models?
09:27:27  <PolestaR> well a lot.. would be very simple
09:27:31  <PolestaR> buildings etc
09:27:43  <PolestaR> they could just be genned on the fly and scaled nicely
09:27:54  <PolestaR> would open up some nice gameplay possibilities too
09:28:03  <Tron_> yeah, textures draw themselves, sure
09:28:23  <PolestaR> well 2d textures of say a wall are easier to draw than isometric ones
09:28:24  <KUDr_wrk> scalling yes, but it can be done also as it is - only drawing it as flat textures using opengl
09:29:34  <KUDr_wrk> what will change on gameplay?
09:30:00  <PolestaR> well... the scaling of cities to fit the criteria realistically
09:30:42  <KUDr_wrk> hoh, it is not so easy
09:31:11  <PolestaR> well i mean atm there is a building height limit
09:31:13  <KUDr_wrk> then you must change the internal map representation and all the logic
09:31:23  <KUDr_wrk> ah
09:31:39  <PolestaR> yes which is why if the engine is tied heavily into the gfx
09:31:42  <KUDr_wrk> implementation limitation only
09:31:47  <PolestaR> a 3d version will be impossible
09:33:03  <PolestaR> its usually hard with tiled games to maintain little to no connection between display and the game data
09:33:14  <PolestaR> from my experience anyhow
09:33:46  <KUDr_wrk> but then - leaving tile based map - means to develop new game
09:34:48  <PolestaR> depending on the abstraction.. that may occur.. which means its not really openttd anymore
09:34:57  <PolestaR> ideally youd want both engines to work
09:35:45  <KUDr_wrk> heh, try it as Tron said and come back when done (we will not hear from you for years)
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09:36:53  <PolestaR> aye
09:36:54  <Darkvater> you see,the problem, if you even want to call this a problem, is that we are quite content with the 2D look/feel of the current game
09:37:28  <Darkvater> so if someone just comes along and starts talking about "DO IT IN 3D, DAMMIT 3D RULES, I WANT 3D OPENTTD NOW' it's...not really taken as a positive thing
09:37:48  <PolestaR> thats easy to understand.. its fine as a 2d game
09:38:01  <Darkvater> so unless that person has anything to show for real, code-wise...
09:38:08  <Darkvater> take KUDr_wrk here for example
09:38:33  <Darkvater> we had tons of people shouting C sucks I want C++ now! but he was the only one that made a serious effort at all about it
09:38:56  <Darkvater> I can't say he was 100% successful, but he did code yapf in c++ :)
09:39:38  <PolestaR> C isnt too bad.. if you have a highly experienced dev working it
09:39:51  <PolestaR> since they use a lot of the oop ways designing
09:41:40  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: try to bring some prototype so we can discuss over something less abstract
09:41:48  <PolestaR> and the compiled code is faster than c++ too.. not that it matters in a game of this type
09:42:12  <PolestaR> well i was going to look at the source and see if it would be simple enough to do a 3d ver
09:42:19  <PolestaR> but no one here wants it anyhow
09:42:22  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: hehe and therefore the YAPF is faster than NPF :)
09:42:40  <jonwil> Is there a project being done to create a free set of graphics (and sounds and data files) to go wtih openttd?
09:42:48  <jonwil> Having a completly free game would be great...
09:42:54  <PolestaR> what is yapf and npf
09:43:04  <PolestaR> excuse my ignorance
09:43:10  <KUDr_wrk> pathfinders (one in C++, another in C)
09:43:19  <Darkvater> jonwil: < kinda here, 3D blender models for the 32bpp version
09:43:33  <smeding> damnit, i want my package ;/
09:43:35  <KUDr_wrk> somehow by accident it happened that C++ one is bit faster
09:43:53  <Darkvater> which reminds me... KUDr_wrk still no good ideas for ship, PF eh?
09:43:54  <PolestaR> theres no way proper c++ will ever be faster than straight c.. given the same algorithms
09:44:04  <PolestaR> just a bit of overhead in proper c++
09:44:19  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: i am full of ideas, but too lazy to try them
09:44:31  <Darkvater> :)
09:44:55  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: you don't know enough about C++ to judge
09:45:03  <PolestaR> lol
09:45:12  <PolestaR> im a c++ developer KUDr_wrk
09:45:28  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: i know many of such
09:45:28  <PolestaR> id like to know why you think the statement is wrong though
09:45:47  <KUDr_wrk> makes no sense to discuss myths
09:46:00  <KUDr_wrk> we can do that on pm
09:46:11  <KUDr_wrk> to not waste the channel
09:46:23  <PolestaR> its not a myth though.. classes have memory and cpu overhead (calling the functions from tables, inheritence and virtual funcs)
09:46:47  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: and if you have no tables?
09:46:57  <PolestaR> so a proper C++ design which uses the c++ features properly will be slower in of cases 100%
09:47:04  <KUDr_wrk> using templates you can gen much faster code
09:47:22  <PolestaR> then you arent using c++ right are you.. if its simple c code but with no oop
09:47:33  <KUDr_wrk> then we don't agree what it does mean "proper"
09:47:45  <PolestaR> ok
09:47:52  <KUDr_wrk> using virtual tables is one way, not the only one
09:48:10  <PolestaR> i never knew templates produced faster code though.. lol.. they make working on code quicker
09:48:17  <PolestaR> definetely dont make it faster..
09:48:19  <KUDr_wrk> you must be carefull when designing any code in any lang
09:48:35  <KUDr_wrk> in C you can also use kind of virtual tables
09:48:39  <Darkvater>
09:48:42  <KUDr_wrk> then it would be fster?
09:48:42  <PolestaR> yes and
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09:49:08  <PolestaR> depends on implementation
09:49:21  <KUDr_wrk> implementation of what? compiler?
09:49:35  <PolestaR> i mean with "void" pointers you can simulate templates and with call tables you can simulate virtual
09:49:35  <Noldo> of the virtual tables
09:50:30  <KUDr_wrk> simulate in runtime, not in compile time
09:50:35  <PolestaR> well a call from a memory location (if thats what it assembles to) is the same isnt it
09:50:40  <KUDr_wrk> this the major difference
09:51:15  <KUDr_wrk> if compiler generates code without calls at all, it is much faster
09:51:29  <PolestaR> not in all cases
09:51:33  <KUDr_wrk> so C simulation of templates is unusable
09:51:45  <PolestaR> maybe you dont know much about prediction and l1 cache thrashing
09:51:47  <PolestaR> ;)
09:51:48  <KUDr_wrk> well, usually
09:52:05  <KUDr_wrk> try it and you will see
09:52:18  <KUDr_wrk> thry to get YAPF and rewrite it to C
09:52:46  <KUDr_wrk> it will be either too much source code or it will be much slower
09:52:55  <PolestaR> with any Visual studio C++/c compiler in my projects which are c
09:53:06  <PolestaR> when compiled in c++ mode they are slower
09:53:23  <PolestaR> roughly by 5%
09:53:25  <KUDr_wrk> because they are not designed as fast C++
09:53:42  <PolestaR> im just saying.. the MS C compiler is faster with the same code
09:53:46  <KUDr_wrk> many of C++ devs do that
09:53:50  <PolestaR> when in C mode
09:53:54  <KUDr_wrk> no
09:54:03  <KUDr_wrk> it produces the same machine code
09:54:18  <PolestaR> not when i last tried it
09:54:19  <KUDr_wrk> only it has more strict types
09:54:41  <KUDr_wrk> ok, then we are talking about myths again
09:55:01  <KUDr_wrk> you tried it and it was slower - but there is no reason for that
09:55:13  <KUDr_wrk> this i call myth
09:55:29  <PolestaR> if you say so.. i say when you become more experienced you will know more things
09:55:33  <KUDr_wrk> you tell it someone, he tells it further, and so on
09:55:35  <PolestaR> just the way life is
09:55:44  <KUDr_wrk> then as the result C++ "MUST BE SLOWER"
09:55:46  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6953 /trunk/ (gfx.c gfx.h):
09:55:46  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Change FormatStringLinebreaks in such a way that if no whitespace was seen
09:55:46  <CIA-1>  for the 'current line' of a certain maximum width, the string will be truncated instead
09:55:46  <CIA-1>  of the old behaviour which just left it alone.
09:56:40  <KUDr_wrk> PolestaR: there is a big difference between understood experience and your kind of experience
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09:57:04  <peter1138> heh
09:57:11  <PolestaR> what is the biggest project you have worked on singlehandedly KUDr_wrk
09:57:17  <PolestaR> in lines of code
09:57:31  <Darkvater> +1 KUDr_wrk
09:57:35  <KUDr_wrk> 450k
09:57:56  <PolestaR> and in this project did you try it in c++ and c
09:58:02  <KUDr_wrk> 2 years of days/nights
09:58:14  <KUDr_wrk> of course not
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09:58:23  <KUDr_wrk> they paid me for one only
09:58:31  <KUDr_wrk> not for two of them
09:59:02  <PolestaR> when was the last time you wrote a lot of pure c code then compiled it in c++
09:59:15  <KUDr_wrk> 15y
09:59:22  <PolestaR> ok
09:59:33  <KUDr_wrk> but we tried it 1y ago
09:59:43  <KUDr_wrk> on one project with 1M lines
09:59:48  <peter1138> compiling pure c as c++ isn't the same as comparing c++ with c code...
09:59:54  <KUDr_wrk> half of it is in kernel mode
10:00:05  <KUDr_wrk> and the same speed - exactly the same
10:00:12  <PolestaR> exact same code?
10:00:19  <PolestaR> binary compatible?
10:00:28  <KUDr_wrk> only typecasts added
10:00:33  <KUDr_wrk> to be able to compile it
10:00:44  <KUDr_wrk> binary compatible, yes
10:00:45  <PolestaR> yes but the code.. was it the same
10:00:50  <KUDr_wrk> yes
10:01:05  <PolestaR> so there was only one identical binary from both builds
10:01:08  <KUDr_wrk> they were binary identical in disasm
10:01:25  <KUDr_wrk> different function layout
10:01:35  <KUDr_wrk> and small differencies like that
10:01:44  <KUDr_wrk> C++ was better optimized
10:01:51  <PolestaR> so they werent binary compatible
10:01:53  <KUDr_wrk> since it was VS
10:02:15  <PolestaR> or rather let me rephrase.. binary identical
10:02:29  <peter1138> byte for byte you mean
10:02:33  <KUDr_wrk> they were binary compatible - one module can call another one (produced by trhe other compiler)
10:02:44  <KUDr_wrk> what are you trying?
10:02:59  <KUDr_wrk> byre fo byte not
10:03:12  <KUDr_wrk> they can't be
10:03:27  <KUDr_wrk> would you expect that?
10:04:16  <KUDr_wrk> but if you look at any procedure - there were no differencies except their addresses, bit different use of registers, and so on
10:04:49  <PolestaR> you said it produced the same machine code
10:04:58  <KUDr_wrk> yes
10:05:07  <PolestaR> but it isnt
10:05:16  <PolestaR> any change can be faster or slower or the same
10:05:22  <KUDr_wrk> if you use eax or ecx - it is not a functional difference
10:05:42  <KUDr_wrk> no the performance was exactly the same
10:06:00  <PolestaR> thats a myth
10:06:25  <KUDr_wrk> :) THIS MYTH MAKE ME MONEY
10:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> am i the only person that thinks this discussion is futile?
10:06:40  <KUDr_wrk> they are real
10:06:47  <KUDr_wrk> no
10:06:54  <KUDr_wrk> i think it too
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10:09:33  <peter1138> back to 3d. in general a we call a function for each tile to be draw, and that adds drawing information (sprite number, x, y, z etc) to a list
10:09:40  <peter1138> +n
10:09:47  <peter1138> then that list is sorted and drawn
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10:10:08  <PolestaR> hmm
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10:11:06  <PolestaR> how is the terrain structured.. a simple multi 2d array or something more complex
10:11:55  <peter1138> currently very simple 2d array with a height value
10:12:14  <peter1138> then data for what's on top
10:13:03  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6954 /trunk/misc_gui.c:
10:13:03  <CIA-1> -Feature: Constrain the drawing of a string inside an editbox to the dimensions of
10:13:03  <CIA-1>  the widget it is in. This allows for typing longer text into an editbox (if maxwidth
10:13:03  <CIA-1>  allows of course) and scroll around properly.
10:13:40  <PolestaR> thats workable at the least peter i think
10:13:55  <PolestaR> i mean.. if you put that info.. you could build a 3d world somewhat
10:14:25  <PolestaR> with some form of translating for sprite no.. is there any info about what the sprite is
10:14:34  <PolestaR> of would a database be needed for conversion
10:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> with all kinds of newgrf floating around, that would hardly work...
10:15:58  <PolestaR> yes which is why a non sprite based "info" thing would be better.. if possible
10:16:18  <PolestaR> like "this is a tree object.. its dying"
10:16:26  <PolestaR> or whatever info the tree contains if any
10:17:59  <PolestaR> i assume there is an object list.. so somehow getting that info would be needed for 3d drawing i think
10:18:01  <XeryusTC> trees can't die in OTTD, they will exist for evar!
10:18:24  <PolestaR> is vegetation growth planned for future vers?
10:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause> if you try to go 3D, there's not any other option than throwing all graphics away...
10:19:10  <Darkvater> XeryusTC: what are you talking about?
10:19:18  <Darkvater> trees are 'planted', 'grown' and 'died'
10:19:23  <Darkvater> hehe died ;p
10:19:26  <PolestaR> Eddi|zuHause: yes i know
10:19:53  <XeryusTC> Darkvater: i just made a deductive (or something like that) statement, trees dont seem to die in OTTD
10:19:54  <PolestaR> it would be a good wip though if i could throw together a simple 3d version which worked alongside the 2d one though
10:20:06  <PolestaR> even if it wasnt feature complete
10:20:21  <peter1138> PolestaR: better idea would be to modify the functions to add data suitable for a 3d environment
10:20:24  <Darkvater> XeryusTC: look closer
10:20:35  <peter1138> mapping sprite ids wouldn't really work well
10:20:55  <PolestaR> i assume you go through an obj list prior to drawing them
10:20:57  * XeryusTC wonders how he should explain this
10:21:05  <PolestaR> so the previous function would have the info i need?
10:21:49  <peter1138> the DrawTile_ function for each tile
10:22:29  <peter1138> instead of adding sprites to the list, it could add some other object representing a model and texture or whatever
10:23:14  <peter1138> current issue is the sprite sorter and blitter are integral to the game
10:23:17  <PolestaR> yes its just better from a porting perspective if i simply make little to no changes to the existing version
10:23:24  <peter1138> the video driver is just a display surface
10:23:37  <PolestaR> integral how
10:23:41  <peter1138> (and gameloop handler :D)
10:23:55  <PolestaR> UI wise?
10:24:04  * XeryusTC gots it
10:24:09  <peter1138> in that it is always there, not part of a video driver
10:24:39  <XeryusTC> Darkvater: i know that trees die in ottd (well, that the code is there), but they dont seem too because the map will be overgrown with trees eventually
10:24:55  <Darkvater> XeryusTC: that is not the point :)
10:25:08  <XeryusTC> it was my original point ;)
10:25:26  <XeryusTC> you just twisted it
10:26:07  <Darkvater> peter1138: and user input :)
10:26:21  <PolestaR> i always wanted to code a soil simulator.. with nutrient/water levels etc for the basis of growing plants
10:26:31  <PolestaR> might be too complicated to add to otdd
10:26:40  <PolestaR> ottd
10:27:41  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6955 /trunk/ (openttd.h texteff.c):
10:27:41  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Change some variable names for _textmessage_box, and replace 5 different
10:27:41  <CIA-1>  global variables with a single struct.
10:29:48  <peter1138> heh, probably
10:30:47  <PolestaR> pity you guys arent using c++... you could use crazyeddies gui system or wxwidgets or something
10:30:48  <Tron_> Darkvater> I can't say he was 100% successful, but he did code yapf in c++ :) <--- this reminds me... there are still 2 bogus const_cast<>s in there
10:31:01  * Darkvater forwards Tron_ to KUDr_wrk
10:33:57  <peter1138> crazyeddies? hmm
10:34:44  <Tron_>  <peter1138> current issue is the sprite sorter and blitter are integral to the game <--- huh?
10:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i am not cracy...
10:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe i am, but...
10:35:15  <peter1138> Tron_: issue with adding a 3d renderer
10:35:22  <peter1138> and of course an issue in the dedicated server...
10:35:49  <Tron_> well, if it were made properly the drawing functions would just sit there never getting called
10:35:57  <peter1138> right
10:36:21  <peter1138> that's easy to do, but i was told there may be some logic hidden in the drawing stuff
10:36:57  <Tron_> PolestaR: ever played FreeCiv? the GTK look totally kills the ambience
10:37:07  <peter1138> oh yes
10:37:35  <peter1138> 's just not the same :(
10:37:39  <Darkvater> the dedicated server is still nothing more than a hack :(
10:38:18  <Tron_> Darkvater: at least it should be no problem to have /no_ viewports
10:38:23  <Tron_> the main view is just another viewport
10:38:37  <Tron_> the game state cannot depend on the viewports
10:38:53  <Darkvater> I had a quick look at it with removing all the drawing but I got smoe quick desyncs :s
10:38:57  <Darkvater> then I didn't have any  more time
10:38:59  <Tron_> otherwise people with different resolutions or even looking at different parts of the map could never play together
10:39:15  <peter1138> true
10:39:36  <peter1138> easy enough to stop the viewport being drawn
10:39:47  <Tron_> by not creating it in the first place
10:39:58  <Tron_> the problem is rather other stuff which just draws things
10:40:04  <Tron_> like the chat text
10:40:16  <Tron_> /somebody/ just hacked it in
10:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* watching a 3GB torrent to complete is like watching grass grow
10:40:37  <Darkvater> hmm am I reading right that crazy edddies thingie only works on opengl/directx?
10:40:51  <peter1138> Darkvater: appears to be so, unless you have a custom renderer, perhaps
10:41:10  <Tron_> Darkvater: how can somebody get it so totally wrong? SDL+OpenGL is so dead easy to use
10:42:09  <Tron_> setting up DirectX is ... awkward
10:42:14  <Tron_> to say the least
10:42:24  <Darkvater> yeah, the chat is pretty nasty... taking a snapshot, putting it back, etc.
10:42:40  <peter1138> just for that little transparency hack, heh
10:42:41  <Darkvater> +it crashes if the 'snapshot' is bigger than the game resolution
10:43:08  <peter1138> cegui is on version 0.4.1 o_O
10:43:11  <Darkvater> but I'm open to ideas?
10:43:21  <peter1138> oh, we had
10:43:32  <peter1138> if (_network_dedicated) return;
10:43:42  <peter1138> or do you mean a proper idea?
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10:43:54  <Darkvater> yes
10:44:04  <Tron_> Darkvater: well, a cheap way would be to check if there is a main window at all
10:44:16  <Tron_> this should fix the dedicated server problem
10:44:24  <peter1138> cegui skin repository, heh
10:44:29  <Darkvater> peter1138: it isn't drawn anyways in dedicated mode
10:44:40  <Darkvater> eh
10:44:49  <Darkvater> it window.c UpdateWindows
10:45:13  <Tron_> i'm pretty sure it's "drawn" in dedicated mode
10:45:20  <Darkvater> 12:44 <@Darkvater> it window.c UpdateWindows
10:45:25  <Darkvater> and that's called from dedi
10:45:42  <peter1138> yes
10:45:50  <peter1138> it's easy enough to not call updatewindows
10:46:17  <Darkvater> the prob is that there is some nasty something somewhere inside drawing that changes gamestate
10:47:17  <Darkvater> << LOL
10:47:23  <Darkvater> putting this in 'openttd problems'
10:47:47  <peter1138> user problems
10:48:42  <Tron_> Darkvater: well, it can't be anything related to drawing windows, otherwise playing multiplayer would be simply impossible
10:48:58  <Tron_> i doubt everybody has the same windows open
10:49:10  <Celestar> I need advice on how to proceed with branches/bridge
10:49:26  <peter1138> Tron_: only the main viewport, status bar and icon menu bar thing
10:49:31  <Celestar> (especially concerning custombridgeheads and MP_TUNNELBRIDGE rip-apart)
10:49:33  <peter1138> so they could possibly do something
10:49:41  <Tron_> peter1138: maybe, but unlikely
10:49:52  <Tron_> at least no *_gui.c file uses Random()
10:50:31  <Darkvater> the fact is they DO something cause I got an almost instant desync once my trin started to move
10:50:34  <Darkvater> wtf gay laaag
10:50:37  <Darkvater> brb
10:50:39  <Darkvater>  other conenciton
10:50:54  <peter1138> then there's some major bug :)
10:51:07  * peter1138 ponders testing by just commenting out UpdateWindows()
10:52:44  <Celestar> hm
10:52:52  <Celestar> no suggestions?
10:53:14  <peter1138> Celestar: i can't remember the original plan :)
10:54:09  <Celestar> options
10:54:43  <Celestar> a) merge bridges/, make new branche custombridgeheads/
10:54:51  <Celestar> b) implement the stuff in bridges/ merge then
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10:55:00  <DarkSSH> ok what did I miss?
10:55:02  <Celestar> c) branch custombridgeheads/ of bridge/ and merge both later
10:57:40  <Celestar> ok that WAS a conversation killer :P
10:57:50  <DarkSSH> hehe
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11:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd be for merge and then new branch
11:01:43  <DarkSSH> Celestar: can you repeat a) and b)?
11:01:49  <peter1138> oh
11:01:51  <peter1138> fuck
11:01:53  <peter1138> i pasted them to you
11:01:57  <peter1138> ... to you old self ;(
11:02:09  <peter1138> 11:56 < Celestar> a) merge bridges/, make new branche custombridgeheads/
11:02:09  <peter1138> 11:56 < Celestar> b) implement the stuff in bridges/ merge then
11:02:12  <DarkSSH> that does notmuch good :)
11:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but wasn't there a huge problem with loading old savegames last time it was merged?
11:02:38  <peter1138> was there?
11:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> like trains getting stuck when on bridges
11:02:51  <DarkSSH> so bridge/ is finished?
11:03:15  <Celestar> DarkSSH: I have repeated a) and b) in PM
11:03:25  *** Darkvater [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by DarkSSH))]
11:03:28  <DarkSSH> fuck off
11:03:30  *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater
11:03:31  <peter1138> :)
11:03:35  <Darkvater> where?
11:03:53  <peter1138> just there
11:04:00  <Darkvater> 13:00 < Celestar> DarkSSH: I have repeated a) and b) in PM
11:04:04  <peter1138> 2 minutes ago, in here
11:04:05  * Darkvater has no pm
11:04:12  <Darkvater> gaah
11:04:13  <peter1138> probably sent to your old self too :)
11:04:47  <Darkvater> amateurs ;p
11:05:15  <Darkvater> hehe did you know that if you have your mouse over the full chatmsg area when you first type something you get your mouse ghosted ;p
11:06:07  *** Neonox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:06:08  <blathijs> ghosted, or hidden?
11:06:26  <Celestar> hidden ghosted
11:06:44  <Darkvater> ghosted
11:06:57  <Darkvater> just try it
11:07:00  <Darkvater> 0.4.8 even
11:08:19  <Celestar> the discussion we need: do we want the bridges to be limited to "straight-and-level" in the future, or do we want something more flexible (how could that look?)
11:08:25  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6956 /trunk/ (network_gui.c texteff.c):
11:08:25  <CIA-1> -Feature: Increase the chatbuffer of chat messages. Messages longer than the allocated
11:08:25  <CIA-1>  graphical box will be wrapped to a new line.
11:09:27  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6957 /trunk/ (gfx.c misc_gui.c texteff.c): -Cleanup: comments, coding style
11:10:39  <Darkvater> Celestar: hmm good question
11:10:49  <Darkvater> the 'look' is the hardest part
11:10:56  <roboboy> yey thanx DV for extending chat messages. thats something that always gets on my nervs
11:11:08  <Celestar> Darkvater: I mean the C-look :P
11:11:13  <Darkvater> you can type 150 chars now
11:11:17  <Darkvater> about 1-2 lines
11:11:24  <Darkvater> oh
11:11:41  <Celestar> opinions?
11:12:03  <Darkvater> elaborate on 'more flexible'
11:12:28  <Celestar> being able to build bridges that are curved or have a slope
11:13:07  <Darkvater> sLomo style?
11:13:14  <roboboy> Like locomotion
11:13:59  <Tron_> Darkvater:
11:13:59  <Tron_> ===> Compiling texteff.c
11:13:59  <Tron_> texteff.c: In function `GetTextMessageCount':
11:13:59  <Tron_> texteff.c:57: warning: statement with no effect
11:14:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: kind of lomo-style
11:14:32  <roboboy> and we wont have the bridges everywhere problem because we have build on slopes so the game wont need to go into bridge mode when it can legaly place track that build on slopes will legally allow
11:15:26  <Darkvater> Tron_:  :)
11:16:01  <peter1138> bendy/slopey bridges?
11:16:24  <Darkvater> Celestar: hmm that would be a major change, gui-wise as well
11:16:26  <Celestar> which would render branches/bridge obsolete
11:16:27  <roboboy> and slopes combined with corners
11:16:42  * blathijs is not sure bendy and slopey bridges are really that good idea
11:16:47  <Celestar> ok then we leave the "bendy/slopey" bridges out for the future ...
11:16:54  <blathijs> It makes LoMo really messy IIRC
11:17:02  <Celestar> blathijs: it does indeed
11:17:12  <peter1138> hehe
11:17:20  <Celestar> if we decide against it, what we might need/want is nothing but custombridgeheads ...
11:17:21  <peter1138> those ai bridges :D
11:17:28  <Celestar> (signals on bridges?? not sure)
11:17:50  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6958 /trunk/texteff.c: -Fix (r5956): GCC warning (thx Tron) and a coding style forgotten in r5957
11:18:12  <roboboy> i wouldnt mind being able to go up a ramp for bidges and have curvy ramps though
11:18:48  <roboboy> maybe so the user can drag around a small corner at either end if needed
11:18:53  <Celestar> "custombridgeheads"
11:19:06  <Darkvater> shit
11:19:07  <Darkvater> brb
11:19:09  <Darkvater> exit
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11:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like stations on bridges ;)
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11:19:30  <DarkSSH> forgot to turn on screen :)
11:19:35  *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater
11:19:36  <roboboy> and have the corner on a slope like in lomo
11:20:23  <roboboy> thats the best bit of lomos bridge system, being able to have corners on slopes
11:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and single raised tiles could remove the need for bendy bridges
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11:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (combined with custom bridgeheads, you could have the curve on the raised bridgehead
11:21:21  *** KUDr|wrk [~KUDr@] has joined #openttd
11:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> in the middle of the landscape)
11:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and we need at least diagonal bridges
11:22:12  <Celestar> diagnoal bridge are a PITA
11:22:27  <Celestar> what is the status on newhouses
11:23:41  <Tron_> SetupColorsAndInitialWindow()
11:23:42  <Tron_> hm
11:23:49  <Darkvater> yes that is needed
11:23:53  <Darkvater> otherwise crash in dedi
11:24:00  <Darkvater> well at least a modified version
11:24:02  <Celestar> SCaIW(); :P
11:24:15  <Celestar> that would be the function name in my Fortran code ÖP
11:24:23  <Tron_> well, the switch seem totally superflous
11:24:38  <Celestar> ok so lets say only straight bridges.
11:24:43  <Celestar> k?
11:24:50  <Darkvater> sounds reasonable
11:25:04  <roboboy> yeah
11:25:07  <Celestar> (maybe horizontal / vertical sooner or later)
11:25:12  <Tron_> show me the trick to implement curves in two bits
11:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that sounds fine
11:25:30  <roboboy> just follow the river if you have to
11:25:33  <Celestar> who says anything about 2 bits :)
11:26:01  <roboboy> the only time i can think of a use for diagonal bridges is over someone elses track/road
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11:26:46  <Darkvater> I think custombridgeheads, super-bridges, anything-below-bridges is enough
11:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i can think of diagonal bridges over my own tracks...
11:27:04  <Celestar> crossing bridges if we have the right sprites?
11:27:32  <roboboy> yeah for certain bridges that support it
11:27:45  <roboboy> as in structually
11:28:38  <Celestar> yeah
11:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> we need suspension bridges that span like 10 tiles between pillars...
11:28:49  <Celestar> yah
11:28:50  <roboboy> that would be good
11:29:05  <roboboy> couldnt that come with newbridges
11:31:37  <Darkvater> yeah it should be a bridge property
11:31:45  <Celestar> Darkvater: I've coded this aready
11:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone here has access to the MiniIN? when starting a new game, "snowline" should not be disabled
11:33:50  <Darkvater> Celestar: good :)
11:33:59  <peter1138> hmm
11:34:03  <Darkvater> hmm what should I do? I've rewritten drawtextmessage a bit
11:34:23  <Darkvater> if only 1 chat-line is drawn, the new one is 3% slower, however with 5 lines it's 4% faster
11:36:04  <Celestar> erm
11:36:08  <Celestar> which code is cleaner_
11:36:09  <Celestar> ?
11:36:50  <peter1138> Darkvater: 3% of what, though?
11:37:03  <peter1138> is it relevant? heh
11:37:15  <Darkvater>
11:38:24  <Darkvater> only the function
11:39:23  <Celestar> the new one appears to be nicer :)
11:40:11  <Celestar> but what do we need 'i' for?
11:40:23  <Darkvater> line-height
11:40:28  <Darkvater> hmm I'll rename it to y
11:40:31  <Celestar> er
11:40:42  <Celestar> you should compute it directly from count methinks
11:41:11  <Darkvater> that's not really possible
11:41:19  <Celestar> no?
11:41:22  <Darkvater> we draw from the bottom-up
11:41:31  <Darkvater> hmm
11:42:05  <Celestar> I just don't like the for statement somehow
11:42:09  <Darkvater> so if count is 5, y is 13. the next loop it is 4 and 26
11:42:26  <Darkvater> then 3, 39
11:42:40  <Celestar> what about for (i = 13; count != 0; i += 13, count--)
11:43:14  <Celestar> I don't like assignments in the comparison part
11:43:30  <Darkvater> then you would need
11:43:36  <Darkvater> _textmsg_list[count-1].message
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11:44:00  <Celestar> hm?
11:44:18  <Darkvater> if count is 1 you draw the msg with index 0
11:44:24  <Darkvater> your for loop draws index 1
11:44:25  <Celestar> yeah
11:45:02  <Celestar> point taken
11:49:55  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6959 /trunk/texteff.c:
11:49:55  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Move GfxFillRect() out of the chat-message drawing loop since we already
11:49:55  <CIA-1>  know how many lines we are going to draw. On certain architectures this results in a
11:49:55  <CIA-1>  minor penalty of local function performance if only 1 line is drawn. But starting from
11:49:55  <CIA-1>  2 and more you'll get a net gain.
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11:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> something is awfully wrong with my system today...
11:51:41  <Celestar> i + i
11:51:49  <Celestar> i+1
11:52:01  <Celestar> Darkvater: go with i+14 and start with i = 0
11:52:02  <Celestar> oh
11:52:05  <Celestar> too late :P
11:54:47  <Darkvater> Celestar: doesn't matter, cause all the _txtmsg_box.XX are constants, so the compiler hardcodes them
11:54:51  <Celestar> why are there so many gotos in DoDrawString
11:55:01  <Darkvater> dodrawstring rules :D
11:55:15  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm not talking about execution speed
11:56:03  <Darkvater> Celestar: I've used 13 because gfxfillrect a few lines higher up also uses the same constant as line height
11:56:14  <Darkvater> it's consistent this way...or at least more consisten
11:56:15  <Darkvater> t
11:57:06  <Celestar> ok
11:57:23  <Celestar> aren't all our lines 13 pixels?
11:57:38  <Celestar> or at least most of them?
11:57:43  <Darkvater> depends
11:57:51  <Celestar> cuz we should put an enum then
12:05:39  <Celestar> ok if there are no objections, merge bridge/ first then start a custombridgeheads/ brnach?
12:06:35  <Darkvater> fine by me
12:06:49  <Celestar> great
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12:19:23  <PolestaR> im developing an open gui system atm... kind of reinventing the wheel
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12:20:01  <PolestaR> i wanted the whole thing to be platform independant.. so you just need to supply one class which does things like drawlines. etc. for each platform
12:20:03  <Celestar> open gui?
12:20:11  <PolestaR> this way new OS's could use it. etc
12:21:19  <PolestaR> i was just going to use wxwidgets.. but it uses each host os's controls and code
12:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> at some point you HAVE to use the underlying system's functions...
12:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that's just the nature of things
12:22:06  <Celestar> hehe :)
12:22:34  <PolestaR> yes but using their controls is just too high level
12:22:39  <PolestaR> for my liking
12:23:13  <PolestaR> like my gui code can be used with gdi/sdl/ddraw/anything
12:23:20  <PolestaR> atm ive only written a gdi base
12:24:34  <PolestaR> it allows me to port my apps to any os with the exact same look
12:24:37  <PolestaR> something i wanted
12:25:50  <Tron_> funny, Java GUIs are accused for not looking like native programs on each platform for years
12:26:08  <peter1138> heh
12:26:36  <PolestaR> yes.. and the wxwidget said the same thing
12:26:44  <PolestaR> wxwidget dev team
12:26:48  <peter1138> i like ottd's gui
12:26:56  <peter1138> just not the code behind it...
12:27:01  <PolestaR> thats why i made the controls emulate certain looks
12:27:10  <PolestaR> like windows xp theme. .windows2000. etc
12:27:24  <Sacro> PolestaR: kinda like cairo?
12:28:09  <PolestaR> not sure let me find out
12:28:43  <PolestaR> well thats semi similar
12:28:53  <PolestaR> as in.. that is part of what ive done
12:29:04  <peter1138> cairo's "just" a renderer, isn't it?
12:29:21  <PolestaR> might be worth me using cairo though instead if its good... thanks for the link
12:29:29  <PolestaR> since it already has platform bases done
12:30:42  <PolestaR> yeah peter seems that way
12:30:55  <PolestaR> most of my code is in the controls.. not the rendering
12:31:12  <PolestaR> which is the simplicity of my system.. when porting
12:32:00  <PolestaR> "Since version 2.8, GTK+ renders many of its interface widgets with Cairo, a powerful vector graphics library. Davyd Madeley explains how you can implement your own GTK+ widget using Cairo for the actual drawing."
12:32:29  <peter1138> i thought it depended on the theme used
12:32:53  <peter1138> two things which would be nice to have with our gui
12:33:08  <PolestaR> hmm?
12:33:13  <PolestaR> its just a backend
12:33:41  <peter1138> 1) dynamically sized, so that long translations automatically fit
12:33:50  <PolestaR> i dont see the drama about controls being 100% like the host
12:33:51  <peter1138> 2) scalable, for those with stupid resolutions :)
12:33:57  <PolestaR> i mean websites are all different and ppl cope
12:34:20  <PolestaR> irt #1 ... ive been thinking the same
12:34:31  <PolestaR> it means you will need to define relationships though
12:34:55  <PolestaR> ie.. "align this control to the right of X control and 50 pixels down"
12:34:56  <PolestaR> or something
12:35:02  <peter1138> probably needs a box model (like gtk) rather than absolute pixel based
12:35:46  <PolestaR> maybe.. but it only works to an extent anyhow
12:35:51  <PolestaR> most times you are limited for room
12:36:01  <PolestaR> so you make the controls biggest they can be
12:36:04  <Celestar> Java GUIs mostly suck
12:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what i have always found a great feature: if a string is too long for a window, cut it with [...], and show the full string as tooltip when hovering
12:36:29  <PolestaR> yeah eddie.. i do that with my buttons
12:38:29  <PolestaR> multilingual support and 2d guis.. well it ever be fully solved?
12:39:29  <Naksu> anyone know how to enable old-style behavior on the urlbar in firefox 2?
12:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you join all languages ;)
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12:40:01  <Naksu> so that when you type an url and firefox gives you choices on the dropdown thingy it goes to the url when you click there instead of filling the urlbar
12:40:11  <PolestaR> i wrote a nice tool which went through my source code and gave me all the strings
12:40:20  <PolestaR> makes it easy to translate without using ids
12:40:23  <peter1138> ow
12:40:30  <PolestaR> from an external file
12:40:43  <peter1138> just put my phone headset on
12:40:49  <peter1138> and it smacked against my head :(
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12:41:58  <PolestaR> any of you play railroad tycoon 3?
12:42:06  <peter1138> newp
12:42:23  <PolestaR> me neither
12:42:35  <PolestaR> noticed its 3d though
12:42:36  <PolestaR>
12:42:51  <Naksu> <Clipsy> There's a review on slashdot of a book called "Creating Web Pages with Ajax," and I was thinking
12:42:55  <Naksu> <Clipsy> I'd like to make a book called "Creating Web2.0 Content for Dummies"
12:42:57  <Naksu> <Clipsy> and then when someone opens the book
12:43:00  <Naksu> <Clipsy> a boxing glove on a spring comes out and punches them in the face
12:44:07  <PolestaR> so now they have some content they can write about? some experience to reflect upon? smart
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13:01:07  <Sacro> Welcome Back :p
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13:02:02  <peter1138> bah
13:03:33  <Darkvater> jezus, my whole wwt_ diff is one big conflict
13:06:30  <Celestar> back
13:07:26  <Sacro> wb Celestar
13:07:44  <peter1138> heh
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13:15:33  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6960 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Feature: NewGRF: Implement some support for GRF Resource Management (GRM)
13:17:17  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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13:19:30  <peter1138> 2Error: Tried to load too many sprites (#16383; max 16383)
13:19:33  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:19:36  <peter1138> need a bigger limit ;p
13:19:41  <Sacro> yep
13:19:45  * peter1138 tries to remember how ttdp manages it
13:21:14  <Sacro> black magic
13:21:29  <peter1138> heh
13:22:12  <peter1138> splits each feature up i think
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13:23:04  <Darkvater> gaah. nooooooooooo
13:23:12  <peter1138> what?
13:23:13  <Darkvater> I have to go fix bjarni mess :(
13:23:16  <peter1138> uh oh
13:23:22  <Naksu> suffer
13:23:42  <peter1138> remember it's only half-way through
13:23:46  <peter1138> so he might complain ;p
13:24:14  <Darkvater> .. I might as well fix all the other stuff while here
13:24:24  <Darkvater> what parts are missing?
13:24:34  <peter1138> errr
13:24:44  <peter1138> we afaik he intend to merge all the build window stuff
13:24:51  <peter1138> and only aircraft have been "merged"
13:24:59  <Darkvater> lol :)
13:25:01  <peter1138> i.e. the code is the aircraft code
13:25:04  <Darkvater> so the 'build vehicle' window
13:25:13  <peter1138> 6yeah
13:25:21  <Darkvater> shit.. that also has a matrix ;p
13:26:20  <peter1138> what are you doing to the matrix widget?
13:27:19  <Darkvater> returning index of clicked item
13:27:29  <peter1138> ahh
13:27:33  <Darkvater> so all you have to do is e->
13:27:50  <Darkvater> and check if that is more than the number of items in there. no more checking for scrollbar, out-of-bounds, et.c
13:27:57  <Darkvater> lika your scrollbar
13:28:34  <peter1138> ah, you're going to conflict with that patch then ;p
13:28:47  <KUDr_wrk> newgrf.c(1342) : warning C4018: '>' : signed/unsigned mismatch
13:29:22  <peter1138> *sigh*
13:29:36  <Darkvater> peter1138: I'll be first :)
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13:30:05  <peter1138> Darkvater: yeah, that'll make my patch smaller :)
13:30:15  <peter1138> ===> Compiling newgrf.c
13:30:15  <peter1138> ===> Linking openttd
13:30:18  <peter1138> not a warning...
13:30:21  <peter1138> i hate compilers ;p
13:31:16  <KUDr_wrk> (byte + uint8) is evaluated as int by MSVC
13:31:35  <peter1138> yes, and gcc, but it doesn't complain
13:31:41  <peter1138> (uint8 === byte)
13:31:54  <KUDr_wrk> yes i know
13:32:07  <KUDr_wrk> but bill gates doesnt know that
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13:49:00  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6961 /trunk/ (airport_gui.c depot_gui.c order_gui.c window.c window.h):
13:49:00  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Remove relic from r212 WWT_NODISTXTBTN which was originally used to not
13:49:00  <CIA-1>  to allow clicking if a button was disabled. This has been superseded in r212 with
13:49:00  <CIA-1>  general code that doesn't allow any click events for disabled buttons.
13:50:33  <peter1138> relics :D
13:53:41  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: can you set _vehcounts & _vehshifts back to ints
13:54:03  <KUDr_wrk> yes, i think so
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13:54:12  <peter1138> and uint i -> int i on line 2618
13:54:20  <peter1138> see if it complains then
13:54:24  <peter1138> if not, i'll commit
13:54:30  <SpComb> Logs:
13:54:30  <jez> !logs
13:54:55  <peter1138> Darkvater: stop changing window.h
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13:55:04  <peter1138> my pc's too slow for all that recompiling ;(
13:55:28  <Darkvater> :D
13:55:35  <Darkvater> that's it forthe time being'
13:55:37  <SpComb> recompile less frequently!
13:55:41  <SpComb> just do a svn update once a week
13:56:21  <Darkvater> ugh
13:57:04  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: 2618: uint i; -> int i;
13:57:24  <KUDr_wrk> then it works
13:59:00  <Darkvater> oops
13:59:03  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r6962 /trunk/ (airport_gui.c depot_gui.c order_gui.c): -Fix r6961: spacing...
13:59:12  <Darkvater> done :)
14:00:02  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: that's what i said :)
14:00:11  <KUDr_wrk> yes :) sorry
14:05:48  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6963 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Fix (r6960): signed/unsigned complaints from MSVC
14:06:05  <peter1138> good i'm not at work... uhmm...
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14:18:49  <CIA-1> glx * r6964 /branches/MiniIN/ (train_gui.c vehicle.c vehicle_gui.c window.h):
14:18:49  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Cleanup: remove dead code (mart3p)
14:18:49  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Fix: small GUI bugs (mart3p)
14:19:12  <roboboy> gnight
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14:19:22  <jez> peter1138: why exactly are you committing stuff?
14:19:33  <peter1138> hmm?
14:19:41  <jez> committing?  you know?
14:20:02  <peter1138> yes, but... "why?" ...?
14:20:07  <jez> yes why
14:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: on the new game dialog, "snowline" should not be disabled on temperate climate
14:20:28  <peter1138> hmm, let's see
14:20:34  <peter1138> i had stuff to commit
14:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> because of the snow in temperate patch
14:20:43  <jez> why did you commit _that_ stuff?
14:21:11  <peter1138> "that" referening to what?
14:21:32  <jez> peter1138 * r6963 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Fix (r6960): signed/unsigned complaints from MSVC
14:21:34  <jez> for example
14:21:44  <peter1138> well, see
14:21:46  <peter1138> it's a fix
14:21:46  <jez> although you've done quite a lot more than that recently
14:21:59  <peter1138> it fixes an oversight in a previous revision
14:22:10  <jez> so you only commit fixes?
14:22:20  <peter1138> or features
14:22:25  <jez> exactly.
14:22:30  <glx> r6960 was not a fix
14:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that question is kinda like "why do you breathe?"
14:22:46  <jez> and why do you commit certain features but not others?
14:22:53  <peter1138> well let's see
14:22:55  <peter1138> how about
14:23:05  <peter1138> i do not give a flying fuck about a customizable face gui?
14:23:21  <jez> the community does
14:23:23  <Tobin> Heh.
14:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't.
14:24:04  <jez> by 'the communicty', i mean significant numbers of the community
14:24:20  <Tobin> The community will stop caring if lots of unneeded or badly written patches get in before needed ones.
14:24:39  <jez> quite
14:24:59  <jez> but they wont if wanted and well written patches get in at the same time
14:25:36  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: snow should be available in temperate and arctic?
14:26:02  <peter1138> yeah, like mart3p's
14:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the button should not be disabled (in the miniin)
14:26:08  <jez> glx: it's a horrible patch in the MiniIN; don't tell me it's been ported to the trunk...
14:26:23  <jez> snow in the temperate climate looks weird
14:26:25  <glx> jez: it's not, don't worry
14:27:01  <jez> where the hell are Belugas and Bjarni when you need em
14:27:10  <jez> they've been zombies for the past week
14:27:10  <Tobin> jez: I think your criteria for wanted and well written might not match a lot of other people's.
14:27:16  <robobed> there are proper gfx, for temperate, openttd doesnt support the rest of the grf
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14:27:33  <jez> Tobin: and yet you can't say i'm willing to fix the well-written part
14:27:44  <jez> as for wanted, it's wanted.  pretty simple.
14:28:00  <jez> my topic's had around 1000 views in a short space of time
14:28:20  * Tobin sighs
14:28:51  <Tobin> Like I said, different criteria.
14:29:03  <jez> well, so what?
14:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> btw. i like snow in temperate
14:29:12  <jez> whoever has checkin access basically decides on their criteria
14:29:17  <Tobin> Yes.
14:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> makes mountain tops somewhat unique
14:29:22  <jez> find someone whose criteria match mine and bingo
14:29:23  <Tobin> Exactly.
14:29:30  <jez> great development model!
14:29:32  <jez> i love it
14:30:01  * Tobin stirs the pot some more
14:30:06  <Tobin> You're welcome to fork.
14:30:15  <Tobin> :P
14:30:29  <jez> i have forked
14:30:31  <jez> on my hard drive.
14:30:43  <jez> now i'm ready to push for integration into the trunk.
14:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> or join an existing fork (aka MiniIN)
14:32:38  <jez> MiniIN is rather defunct
14:32:48  <jez> can't contact the supposed developers anymore
14:33:25  * peter1138 ponders houses and fires
14:33:38  <Tobin> Wheee.
14:34:04  <Tobin> peter1138: Did anything come of your custombridgeheads work?
14:34:26  <KUDr_wrk> jez: what feature/patch are you talking about?
14:34:38  <peter1138> yeah, it was decided to do stuff with it after the bridge branch stuff
14:35:08  <jez> KUDr_wrk:
14:36:17  <Tobin> It's got a known bug and you're pushing for it to be committed?
14:38:41  <Tobin> Anyway, bed time for me.
14:38:45  <Tobin> Night people.
14:38:59  <peter1138> nini
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14:47:03  <Darkvater> gn?
14:47:09  <Darkvater> eek, timezone warp
14:51:26  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: snow was already disabled for temperate in r6500
14:51:38  <glx> in newgame windod
14:51:42  <glx> *window
14:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it should still be enabled
14:52:36  <jez> glx: you ignoring privmsgs?
14:53:01  <glx> hmm yes :)
14:53:11  <jez> mind unblocking me/
14:53:12  <jez> >
14:53:12  <jez> ?
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14:56:58  <jez> glx: what's your qualm?
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15:00:00  <Darkvater> hmm, probably a good idea to go shopping...
15:01:56  <Darkvater> who wants something? :)
15:02:07  <Belugas> mp3 player for me, please
15:02:10  <Belugas> mine is dead
15:02:21  <Darkvater> I don't think I can find that in a grocery ;p
15:02:26  <Belugas> no??
15:02:29  <Belugas> change place
15:02:34  <Belugas> ;)
15:02:36  <Darkvater> hehe
15:02:43  <Darkvater> who wants a cookie? :)
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15:03:06  <Darkvater> bbs
15:03:07  <Belugas> naaaa... thanks, i try to stop
15:03:11  <Belugas> bye
15:11:22  * peter1138 has a feeling that OTRS is a little too complicated for people here
15:11:36  <Hapo> I've translated OTRS into Finnish!
15:12:23  <SpComb> onko nyt hyvä mieli?
15:12:43  <peter1138> by here i mean where i work, obviously
15:13:27  <Hapo> SpComb: on.
15:13:40  <Hapo> tosin en oo kai lähettänyt tuota suomennosta tekijöille
15:13:52  <Hapo> joo, en
15:14:00  <Hapo> se on käytössä vaan yhdistyksessä, jota edustan :)
15:16:43  <jez> !seen tron
15:16:45  <_42_> jez, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel.
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15:21:11  <Sacro>  I KNEW IT WAS DOUBLE N
15:21:26  <peter1138> ...
15:21:49  <Sacro> damn student job centre is after a "finish" translater
15:22:27  <peter1138> lol
15:22:40  <Ailure> wtf is OTRS?
15:22:59  <Sacro> errm...
15:23:04  <Sacro> RS is usually Renewal Set
15:23:19  <Sacro> Off Topic Renewal Set?
15:23:49  <Ailure> oh
15:24:14  <Ailure> :p
15:24:29  <Ailure> Eh dosen't make sense in the context peter1138 says it though
15:24:40  <Ailure> sicne probably alot of people are using the UKRS set
15:24:47  <Ailure> and I think there was a USRS set or something
15:25:41  <Ailure> ah
15:25:44  <Ailure> NARS rather
15:26:06  <Ailure> though it sounds more like a disease than a trainset
15:27:28  <Sacro> there is UKRS and NARS
15:29:36  <peter1138> open ticket request system
15:29:38  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: something like ?
15:32:31  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks right ;)
15:34:40  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35:03  <Darkvater> hmmm, cookies...
15:35:05  <Darkvater>
15:35:38  <Darkvater> I am so bad
15:35:49  <peter1138> that's a cookie?
15:35:56  <peter1138> hmm
15:35:59  <Darkvater> big cookie :)
15:36:11  <peter1138> looks more like an apple puff thing
15:36:21  <Darkvater> it is
15:36:34  <peter1138> so not a cookie then
15:36:36  <Darkvater> for me: cookie == sweet
15:36:47  <Darkvater> don't care about any other external characteristics ^^
15:37:08  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:37:11  <jez> if anyone sees Tron, please ask him to msg me
15:37:16  <jez> i need to talk to him
15:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... since when it is not possible anymore that you get a list of buildable vehicles before building a depot...
15:38:07  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
15:38:59  <peter1138> meh
15:39:13  <peter1138> turns out the person who set it up installed 1.3.2 <- 2004-10-15
15:41:39  <Darkvater> is that bad?
15:42:01  <peter1138> well, 2 years old
15:42:13  <peter1138> by "set it up" i mean "set it up just now"
15:42:33  <Darkvater> that person doesn't sound too bright
15:42:48  <peter1138> excuse "there was a debian package"
15:42:59  <peter1138> so no wonder it's out of date...
15:43:27  <Darkvater> fire him!
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15:46:48  *** Weirdo is now known as CanCommit
15:47:12  *** CanCommit is now known as HasCommitRights
15:47:58  *** HasCommitRights is now known as Weirdo
15:48:27  <Darkvater> Weirdo...
15:48:40  <peter1138> heh
15:49:20  <Weirdo> I AM BORED OKAY!
15:49:22  <Weirdo> shut up
15:49:40  * Darkvater gives Weirdo a cookie
15:49:53  <Darkvater> hier jongen, appelflap
15:49:53  <Darkvater>
15:50:05  <Darkvater> it's still fresh :)
15:51:35  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
15:51:58  <peter1138> still not a cookie
15:52:03  <Weirdo> :$ Thank you!
15:52:10  <Weirdo> It tastes nice
15:52:18  <Weirdo> peter1138: if Darkvater says it is a cookie, it is a cookie!
15:52:24  <Darkvater> you're damn right!
15:52:26  <Weirdo> so he is right
15:52:27  <Weirdo> always
15:52:28  <Weirdo> period
15:54:29  <CIA-1> belugas * r6965 /trunk/ (industry.h industry_cmd.c table/build_industry.h):
15:54:29  <CIA-1> -CodeChange : Add a climate bitmask member to IndutrySpec.
15:54:29  <CIA-1> Removed a loop that used the array _build_industry_types for that purpose.
16:05:45  *** scia [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:06:08  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... i am still not able to place a bufferstop on the "wrong" slope :(
16:08:35  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: muwahaha
16:10:31  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
16:14:39  <peter1138> unfortunately it would cause problems
16:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of problems?
16:17:00  <Eddi|zuHause> just allow placing if it is a no-track tile
16:18:51  <CIA-1> belugas * r6966 /trunk/industry.h: -Fix(6965): Little typo while making the comment doxygen friendly
16:22:04  <peter1138> we only know that it's a non-track tile after it's been placed
16:22:46  <peter1138> and if you load the game without that station is won't be a non-track tile
16:25:01  <peter1138> *sigh*
16:25:03  <peter1138> fucking numpties
16:25:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... baad system...
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16:54:06  <CIA-1> glx * r6967 /branches/MiniIN/ (depot_gui.c vehicle.c):
16:54:06  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] [Subsidiaries] -Fix:
16:54:06  <CIA-1> A. Depot window buttons are not enabled for a player using a sister company's depot.
16:54:06  <CIA-1> B. Depot window - Sell all vehicles: should only sell vehicles belonging to current player.
16:54:06  <CIA-1> C. Depot window - Start/stop all vehicles: should only start/stop vehicles belonging to current player.
16:54:08  <CIA-1> D. Vehicle list window- Send To Depots: should only send vehicles belonging to current player
16:54:08  <CIA-1> (thx mart3p)
16:56:37  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6968 /branches/newhouses/ (103 files in 7 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with r6828:r6966 from trunk
16:58:25  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, glx, can you check out ?
17:01:34  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:04:34  *** xyz [] has joined #openttd
17:04:48  <xyz> Old AI back to life :D
17:09:19  *** Turski [] has joined #openttd
17:10:28  <jez> xyz: how do you mean?
17:10:45  <xyz> anybody knows what values[cargo] & ~7 does?
17:10:55  <xyz> fixt it
17:11:01  <xyz> is back to the original form
17:11:19  <jez> i wasn't aware it had been 'fixed'
17:11:24  <xyz> where AcceptedCargo values;
17:14:23  <CIA-1> miham * r6969 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt italian.txt polish.txt slovak.txt):
17:14:23  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-27 19:12:49
17:14:23  <CIA-1> american - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
17:14:23  <CIA-1> italian - 4 changed by sidew (4)
17:14:23  <CIA-1> polish - 1 fixed, 1 changed by meush (2)
17:14:24  <CIA-1> slovak - 4 fixed by lengyel (4)
17:15:12  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-133-251.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:17:37  <BobingAbout> hi
17:17:53  <xyz> and improved the Airport building algorithm
17:21:55  <CIA-1> glx * r6970 /branches/MiniIN/lang/ (german.txt polish.txt):
17:21:55  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Fix up the languages changed in r6951
17:21:55  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Update German translations (Eddi|zuHause)
17:22:13  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: next time don't put trailing whitespaces :)
17:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i had?
17:22:25  * Eddi|zuHause checks
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17:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry about that, i somehow missed it...
17:28:30  <glx> np there's a 'pre-commit' hook :)
17:29:24  <Belugas> and it is so unpleasant when that hook refuses a commit because of one little tiny trailing space...
17:30:12  <KUDr> are you around?
17:30:16  <KUDr> oops
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17:37:00  <BobingAbout> i thought i'd best update my osignals.grf
17:40:18  <BobingAbout> there is now both a windows and dos version of my newgrf
17:40:29  <BobingAbout> and it should also work with TTDPatch
17:41:38  *** xyz [] has left #openttd []
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17:42:07  <BobingAbout> thanks for the enthusiastic response...
17:42:09  <Wolf01> hi
17:42:15  <BobingAbout> hi
17:42:33  <BobingAbout> wait, thats a hard drive, not my mouse, wheres my mouse go?
17:43:18  <Wolf01> i'm working on a new terrain graphics, once i finished who must i ask for encoding?
17:43:29  <BobingAbout> dunno
17:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> not bjarni :)
17:44:25  <Wolf01> :O where is frost? i'm lost :(
17:45:14  <Wolf01> the eyecandy feature is half done :D
17:46:06  <Wolf01> now needs only a gui (there is a gui, but broken 'cause the new codechanges)
17:46:18  <Wolf01> :D
17:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is that supposed to be useful for?
17:47:10  <Wolf01> should be like the newstations
17:47:28  <Wolf01> but is more like the rollercoaster stuff to place for the scenery
17:48:17  <Wolf01> nobody wants to help?
17:48:36  <glx> gui is easier to code with new stuff
17:48:48  <BobingAbout> i'm currently working on my new computer
17:48:58  <Wolf01> the gui is not a problem
17:49:08  <BobingAbout> although i should be working on defining newGRF format for newsignals
17:53:28  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Purno has spoken]
18:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> mäh... i fucking hate this...
18:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i was about to do something, and then got distracted for a second
18:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and now i can absolutely not remember, what i was doing
18:02:19  * glx hates that too
18:02:21  <Wolf01> uhm... the WW6 widget i used to show an icon in a button is now WWT_IMGBTN?
18:02:46  <glx> WWT_6 -> WWT_INSET
18:03:03  <Wolf01> ok thanks :)
18:03:17  <glx> WWT_PANEL with image -> WWT_IMGBTN
18:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik WWT_INSET is for image buttons that change the look when selected
18:03:47  <glx> WWT_IMGBTN without image -> WWT_PANEL (else assert)
18:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> like the landscape selection
18:04:07  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: no it's WWT_IMGBTN_2
18:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, what is an inset then?
18:04:36  <glx> mostly used in combo box
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18:06:34  <Darkvater>
18:06:39  <Darkvater> OMG I love SAC's designs
18:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so the landscape selection thing was the right example, i just did not use the right words?
18:07:24  <Darkvater> yes that's wwt_imgbtn_2
18:07:30  <Darkvater> wwt_inset is like a panel, but inverted
18:08:56  <Wolf01> !string 0x12B7 is invalid. probably bla bla bla
18:09:04  <Wolf01> what does this error mean?
18:09:19  <Darkvater> you screwed up
18:09:27  <glx> Wolf01: try to recompile all langs
18:09:46  <Wolf01> is not the lng, is that image button! if i leave it all works!
18:12:30  <peter1138> Wolf01: use the correct widget type
18:12:41  <Wolf01> {     WWT_IMGBTN,   RESIZE_NONE,    14,    63,    84,   126,   137, SPR_IMG_BUY_LAND,                STR_0329_PURCHASE_LAND_FOR_FUTURE},
18:12:49  <peter1138> amazing how many problems going from random numbers to sensible names causes :)
18:13:01  *** Zr40_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13:11  <glx> Wolf01: looks ok
18:14:00  <Wolf01> i removed all the code and left only that widget and got the error, removed that widget only... no errors
18:14:51  <glx> so STR_0329_PURCHASE_LAND_FOR_FUTURE is invalid
18:15:07  <Darkvater> no, that's only drawn if you show the tooltip
18:15:14  <glx> right
18:15:37  <peter1138> Darkvater: how much of SAC's stuff is photoshopped? :)
18:15:53  <glx> Wolf01: and the WndProc?
18:16:13  <Darkvater> peter1138: donnu
18:16:16  <Darkvater> does it matter? :)
18:16:25  <peter1138> 'spose not
18:16:31  <Darkvater> can't play his
18:16:32  <Darkvater> eh her
18:16:38  <Darkvater> scenario though
18:16:42  <peter1138> :(
18:16:56  <Darkvater> crappy ttd savegame :(
18:17:15  <Darkvater> seems their steep tiles are also marked as water on the coast?
18:17:24  <peter1138> yes
18:17:39  <peter1138> that's a fairly recent patch
18:18:00  <Darkvater> they changed it? why?
18:18:14  <Wolf01> case 5: //<- yes is the 6th button
18:18:14  <Wolf01> _eyecandy.buyland ^= 1;
18:18:14  <Wolf01> EyecandyClick_BuyLand(w);
18:18:14  <Wolf01> SndPlayFx(SND_15_BEEP);
18:18:14  <Wolf01> SetWindowDirty(w);
18:18:15  <Wolf01> break;
18:18:37  <peter1138> someone felt it necessary to have continuous coasts?
18:18:40  <peter1138> i dunno
18:18:59  <Darkvater> hmm we'll need to adjust the oldloader for this
18:19:10  <Darkvater> you don't know which version it was?
18:19:37  * Wolf01 <- dining
18:19:42  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:20:47  <peter1138> r139
18:21:01  <peter1138> r139 | lakie | 2006-05-01 16:49:29 +0100 (Mon, 01 May 2006) | 1 line
18:21:01  <peter1138> Add some diagonal flooding as well as support for corner coasts. Added Action5 s
18:21:04  <peter1138> upport for coast tile sprites (Type 0D).
18:21:07  <Darkvater> he
18:21:22  <Darkvater> I meant ttdpatch version
18:21:25  <Darkvater> like savegame bump or something
18:21:44  <peter1138> dunno
18:21:51  <peter1138> dunno how they handle that
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18:23:19  <Darkvater> heh, it's even worse
18:23:26  <Darkvater> diagonal flooding?
18:24:33  <peter1138> hmm
18:24:33  <Darkvater> he.. I don't think we should try and load recent ttdpatch games in ottd
18:24:39  <peter1138> "go to" button doesn't work
18:24:42  <Darkvater> the whole thing is broken :P
18:24:44  <peter1138> in the order window
18:25:06  <peter1138> can't click it
18:25:21  <peter1138> same with the clone aircraft button
18:25:27  <peter1138> and clone train
18:25:36  <peter1138> who broke the widgets? :P
18:25:37  <Darkvater> indeed
18:25:46  <Darkvater> hmm I hope it wasn't me...
18:25:52  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:26:05  <peter1138> 6961 maybe? :p
18:27:22  <Darkvater> no that button did nothing
18:30:07  *** fusey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:30:24  <Darkvater> let's see
18:30:36  *** fusey [] has joined #openttd
18:31:02  *** fusee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:31:48  <Darkvater> OMG
18:31:52  * Darkvater investigates...
18:33:23  <hylje> ZERG RUSH?
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18:37:18  <peter1138> ...
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18:37:51  <BobingAbout> what i miss/
18:38:00  <BobingAbout> anything interesting?
18:38:11  <Darkvater> ok, somebody did a really nasty trick somewhere...
18:38:21  <BobingAbout> what? where?
18:39:19  <Darkvater> he
18:39:33  <Darkvater> hehe
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18:39:50  <Sacro> hehehe
18:40:55  <Darkvater> hehe, nasty :)
18:41:55  <Darkvater> but I gotta run, found the cause though :)
18:41:58  <peter1138> fix it :P
18:42:10  <Darkvater> no, airport code is a bit more looking into needed yes
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18:53:11  <Naksu> umm
18:53:18  <Naksu> is there any decent disassembler for elf binaries?
18:56:16  <ln-> isn't that a little platform-specific too?
18:57:29  <Tron> objdump, gdb
18:57:53  <Wolf01> {   WWT_CLOSEBOX,   RESIZE_NONE,     7,     0,    10,     0,    13,
18:57:54  <Wolf01> what are the values?
18:58:03  <Naksu> magic numbers :)
18:58:16  <Wolf01> also i think so
18:58:48  <Tron> look at the struct declaration
18:59:34  <Belugas> Wolf01: window.h:70 = typedef struct Widget
18:59:34  <Naksu> Tron: i was mainly looking for a windows-based one but meh, is there a spell for dumping the disassembly from either to a file?
18:59:38  <ln-> Naksu: ELF binaries can be made for e.g. Solaris/SPARC
19:00:02  <Naksu> ln-: and?
19:00:19  <ln-> and i doubt any random disassembler on any random platform would be able to disassemble that.
19:00:23  <Tron> Naksu: pipe it, duh
19:02:32  *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@] has joined #openttd
19:03:35  <Naksu> ahaha
19:03:45  <Naksu> looks like i wont have to even disassemble the linux binary
19:08:28  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:12:07  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
19:12:47  <DaleStan> <Darkvater> I meant ttdpatch version <Darkvater> like savegame bump or something <-- TTDPatch uses several dword bitmasks for savegame versioning. If the bit is set, the information associated with that bit is valid. If it is clear, the information is either not present or not valid, depending on context. AFAICT, however, Lakie did not allocate such a bit, so it looks like you're on your own.
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19:45:38  <chu_> hi
19:52:02  <chu_> strange things happen... clone-vehicle no longer works
19:52:29  <glx> known
19:55:37  <Weirdo> There was a court-issue, there was word the cloning function was tested on animals, which wasn't allowed... really weird
19:55:42  <Ailure> I probably did the most stupid thing ever
19:55:47  <Ailure> designing a computer network
19:55:50  <Ailure> with openTTD
19:56:23  <Weirdo> and the trains are the TCP packets?
19:56:59  *** deredoce [] has joined #openttd
19:57:00  <Ailure> :p
19:57:03  <Ailure> I could have gone that far
19:57:05  <Ailure> but I didn't
19:57:39  <Ailure> I could though
19:57:55  <Ailure> as long the trains are created and destroyed at the stations
19:58:01  <Ailure> like with packets
19:58:13  <Ailure> and if they ever crash, they just disappear :P
19:58:23  <Ailure> but it's probably better to make some own simulator for a computer network xD
19:58:41  <Weirdo> you can just say packets are reused
19:58:44  <Weirdo> just they change of size
19:58:48  <Sacro> Ailure: ive seen a full adder... that was impressive
19:58:53  <Weirdo> and indeed, crashing is like a hub: collision!
19:59:00  <Weirdo> nice comparison
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20:01:05  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
20:02:28  <chu_> glx: any explanation for that behaviour?
20:02:47  <glx> it's a bug :)
20:02:53  <Weirdo> a not fixed bug
20:02:53  <chu_> it seems that ToggleWidgetLoweredState is not permanent
20:04:14  <chu_> but wich change introduced that bug?
20:04:25  <Ailure> ah
20:04:30  <Weirdo> a code change! :)
20:04:31  <Ailure> there's this NAND signal patch
20:04:38  <Ailure> intresting
20:04:47  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
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20:04:54  <Weirdo> good morning Tobin
20:05:17  <Tobin> Morning.
20:05:30  *** Spoco [] has quit []
20:09:05  *** deredoce [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09:52  *** Weirdo is now known as Sacro2
20:10:01  *** Sacro2 is now known as Weirdo
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20:18:49  <chu_> :101
20:18:55  <chu_> sorry
20:20:01  <chu_> might the not-working clone-button have something todo with
20:20:33  <chu_> it contains the latest change of depot_gui.c
20:20:47  <chu_> (in line 101 as you read recently :-))
20:21:38  <glx> hehe build airport should be broken too
20:21:43  * glx goes check
20:22:34  <glx> hmm it works
20:23:17  <chu_> but it is not possible to chang orders!
20:23:46  <glx> "go to" doesn't work yes
20:24:24  <chu_> well. it seems we found the culprit
20:25:22  <chu_> i think that it has something to do with the toggled-state
20:25:37  <glx> no the problem is just the widget type :)
20:26:03  <chu_> do you mean, that widget cannot be toggled?
20:26:55  <glx> it can be toggled (works for airports) but the depot/order code doesn't handle that
20:27:47  <chu_> as far as i can see, the depot-code tries to toggle the lowered state of that button
20:28:03  <chu_> but it seems that it doesn't stay down
20:28:26  <Sacro> Weirdo: errm... do i know you?
20:28:35  <glx> because there are push button (auto raised at timeout)
20:28:39  <Weirdo> Sacro: nah, I was just making fun of Bjarni
20:28:46  <Sacro> Weirdo: oh?
20:28:53  * Bjarni slaps Sacro
20:29:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: :o what was that for
20:29:17  * Sacro sinks dutchland
20:29:17  <Bjarni> somebody named Sacro2 teased me
20:29:18  <Weirdo> [22:03:32] <Weirdo> Bjarni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111oneoneoneoneone
20:29:18  <Weirdo> [22:08:57] <Bjarni> great
20:29:18  <Weirdo> [22:09:16] <Bjarni> I join IRC and right away I'm greeted by a Weirdo
20:29:18  <Weirdo> [22:09:32] <Bjarni> I expected that might happen, but I was actually thinking that it would be Sacro
20:29:31  <Bjarni> I bet it was you
20:29:34  <Sacro> :\
20:29:36  <Sacro> but im HERE
20:29:37  <Bjarni> oh, I got highlighted
20:29:41  <Sacro> Weirdo: is there ->
20:29:42  <Bjarni> big time
20:29:45  <Sacro> !seen Weirdo
20:29:46  <_42_> Sacro, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel.
20:29:49  <Sacro> see!
20:29:59  <Weirdo> night
20:30:14  <Bjarni> making an arrow pointing at the userlist also points as Sacro :P
20:30:17  <Sacro> and i cant remember from the whois what his real/usual name is
20:30:30  <Bjarni> I bet it's Sacro
20:30:54  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
20:30:55  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
20:30:57  <Bjarni> at least both nicks ends up meaning the same thing :P
20:31:19  <Sacro> Bjarni:
20:31:36  <Sacro> how can that possibly be me
20:31:44  <Bjarni> you are using a proxy server?
20:31:50  <Sacro> no
20:32:04  <Sacro> ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM is me
20:32:25  <Sacro> [21:29] * [Weirdo] :actually using host
20:32:28  <Sacro> thers your proof
20:32:34  <Bjarni> you need to prove that you are not Weirdo
20:32:55  <Sacro> :o
20:33:00  <Sacro> WERDO IS TRUELIGHT
20:33:23  <Weirdo> Who?
20:33:26  <Sacro> YOU
20:33:36  <Weirdo> werdo?
20:33:45  <Sacro> [21:29] * [Weirdo] ( Patric Stout
20:34:08  <Sacro> which according to is truelight
20:34:09  <Weirdo> your point being here? :)
20:34:13  <Bjarni> Sacro: you mean that you are enlightened or something?
20:34:18  <Sacro> Bjarni: i am now... yes
20:34:27  <Bjarni> what religion is that where you find enlightment on IRC????
20:34:41  <Weirdo> Bjarni: yours
20:34:58  <Bjarni> ...
20:35:10  <Bjarni> so you finally realised that I'm a god or ?
20:35:40  <jez> Bjarni: are you still red from your spanking by DV?
20:35:42  <Weirdo> Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
20:35:42  <Sacro> XML Parsing Error: no element found <-- damn you, its cos its just after </html>
20:35:44  <Weirdo> let me repeat that
20:35:45  <Weirdo> Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah
20:35:46  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit []
20:35:55  <Sacro> :o you killed Trenskow
20:36:07  <Bjarni> o_O
20:36:22  <Bjarni> Trenskow was killed by laughter?
20:36:30  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
20:38:04  <Bjarni> <jez>	Bjarni: are you still red from your spanking by DV? <-- wtf are you talking about?
20:38:43  <jez> about buggering up the depot stuff without his permission
20:38:47  <Sacro> how do you tell that your at the end of an xml style
20:38:55  <jez> i have it on good authority that there were fireworks
20:39:30  <chu_> Sacro: sounds like there is some missing closing-tag elsewhere
20:40:27  <Sacro> chu_: yes... but it wont tell me what
20:41:00  <Sacro> heh. borked doctype
20:41:04  <Bjarni> <jez>	about buggering up the depot stuff without his permission <-- are you some guy from a parallel universe where people are named the same, but act differently or something?
20:41:13  <Bjarni> I still don't know what you are talking about
20:41:13  <jez> no
20:41:16  <jez> heh
20:41:23  <jez> you guys really DO keep it behind the scenes, dont you
20:41:25  <jez> ah well
20:41:46  *** Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
20:42:32  <CIA-1> glx * r6971 /trunk/ (airport_gui.c depot_gui.c order_gui.c): -Fix r6961: WWT_NODISTXTBTN buttons were normal buttons not push buttons
20:43:03  *** mode/#openttd [+o Weirdo] by Bjarni
20:43:22  *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by Bjarni
20:43:41  * peter1138 waits for chanserv to come along and be brutal
20:43:41  <BobingAbout> i think i've sorted the problem, it apears to be RAM slot 1...
20:43:42  <Darkvater> glx: mind you not doing this? I was working on a *proper* fix
20:43:47  <Darkvater> back btw
20:43:55  *** Carib [] has joined #openttd
20:43:59  <glx> why is it a bad fix?
20:44:14  *** jez was kicked from #openttd by Weirdo [Please do not attempt to make a bloodbad where there isn't one. Warning 1 out of 2.]
20:44:14  *** jez [] has joined #openttd
20:44:26  <peter1138> seems to work for me
20:44:26  <jez> bloodbad?
20:44:31  *** jez was kicked from #openttd by Weirdo [Please do not attempt to make a bloodbad where there isn't one. Warning 1 out of 2. (anti-rejoin)]
20:44:32  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!bobbit@*] by Weirdo
20:44:35  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!bobbit@*] by Weirdo
20:44:40  <BobingAbout> bloodbath probably
20:44:43  <Weirdo> my bad
20:44:48  *** jez [] has joined #openttd
20:45:15  <BobingAbout> anyway, what i miss while i was fixing my PC? anything interesting?
20:45:32  <chu_> glx: you found the bug. great!
20:45:39  <Weirdo> BobingAbout: that Sacro is smarter then I expected :(
20:45:50  <chu_> (so i can close gdb. i don't like it either :-)
20:45:56  <Darkvater> glx: yes, cause they're handled individually deep inside the GUI code and much better off generalized
20:46:06  <peter1138> cgdb's nicer, mostly
20:46:12  <BobingAbout> sacro is smart, but stupid, if you get what i mean
20:46:18  <peter1138> ddd is just annoying, and likes to crash X too
20:46:34  <chu_> i uses plain gdb :-)
20:46:38  <chu_> used
20:46:38  <Weirdo> BobingAbout: no I don't?
20:46:58  <BobingAbout> he is smart, but doesn't use his brain most of the time, aka, he is stupid
20:47:08  <Darkvater> DaleStan: hmm I see... it looks like I needa loop all water-tiles and convert the proper tilehs
20:47:13  <Weirdo> that aint a nice thing to say BobingAbout
20:47:15  <Weirdo> you should properly take it back
20:47:32  <BobingAbout> i would, but its true, this is why he failed college
20:47:52  <Weirdo> There can be tons of other reasons in fact
20:48:01  <Weirdo> maybe it was your smell :)
20:48:15  <BobingAbout> the reason he failed is somply because he didn't do the work, even though he could have if he'd have tried
20:48:32  <Weirdo> And you are in this story, his dad?
20:48:39  <BobingAbout> his classmate
20:48:47  <Weirdo> sure sure
20:49:16  <Bjarni> hmm
20:49:33  <Bjarni> I wonder if Sacro knows his dad. He never mentioned him
20:49:40  <Bjarni> he did mention his mother though
20:49:46  <Weirdo> neither did you
20:49:51  <BobingAbout> i know sacro knows his dad
20:50:01  <Weirdo> now it is getting complicated
20:50:07  <Weirdo> I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows his dad
20:50:08  <Sacro> yes... it is
20:50:16  <Sacro> Weirdo: me too!
20:50:18  <Bjarni> 	<Weirdo>	neither did you <-- yeah, but I don't tell about my mother either
20:50:26  <peter1138> soooo
20:50:30  <peter1138> tell me about your mother
20:50:31  <Weirdo> Bjarni: oh, that picture last time, was NOT your mother?
20:50:33  <Weirdo> oooohh.....
20:50:49  <Sacro> Weirdo: dare we ask?
20:50:57  <Weirdo> nope
20:51:05  <Bjarni> well
20:51:10  <BobingAbout> you know plug from the beano?
20:51:19  <BobingAbout> of bash street kids?
20:51:31  <Bjarni> I presume that you are not talking about the last picture I uploaded, since it totally lacked people on it
20:51:39  <BobingAbout> no
20:51:49  <Weirdo> All kind  ofthings now cross my mind
20:51:53  <Weirdo> have to control myself
20:51:56  <Weirdo> not talk
20:51:58  <Weirdo> no chat
20:51:59  <Weirdo> shut
20:52:00  <Weirdo> up
20:52:01  <Weirdo> silent
20:52:31  <BobingAbout> well, a friend printed out a picture of plug from the beano, with, "Sacro" written on it, and hung it in the IT suite with some chewy
20:52:50  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish]
20:53:19  <BobingAbout> anyway, i'll shut up now...
20:53:28  <Bjarni> o_O
20:53:31  <BobingAbout> unless anyone wants to talk to me about something useful
20:53:40  <Weirdo> BobingAbout: how about your mother?
20:53:53  <BobingAbout> she's sat on the sofa, infront of me
20:54:07  <BobingAbout> she's kinda pissed off that my PC is in the middle of the living room floor
20:54:18  <peter1138> heh
20:54:20  <Bjarni> I was about to ask about anything as that print of Sacro should not be the last mentioned thing in here for hours
20:54:34  <Bjarni> BobingAbout: you only got one room?
20:54:40  <BobingAbout> lol
20:54:40  * Sacro considers a trip to dutchland next year
20:54:41  <Weirdo> 1-0 for Bjarni
20:54:53  <Weirdo> Sacro: come and see us then
20:55:04  <BobingAbout> 1 living room,  kitchen, 1 bathroom, 3 bedrooms and 1 attic
20:55:44  <Weirdo> we will hang some pictures somewhere
20:55:47  <Weirdo> then you come and look at them
20:55:51  <Weirdo> sounds like fun!
20:56:26  <Bjarni> BobingAbout: move your computer to the kitchen. That way you will not have to leave IRC to take a snack
20:56:36  *** Carib [] has quit []
20:56:40  <peter1138> now that's a damned good idea
20:56:43  <Weirdo> or better: make your mother get snacks fromt he kitchen
20:56:51  <Bjarni> and your mother will not be upset about the computer in the living room
20:57:32  <BobingAbout> well... she'd prefer i take it upstairs
20:58:17  <Weirdo> night all
20:58:29  <BobingAbout> night
20:59:18  <Bjarni> you are the same age as Sacro, right?
20:59:50  <Bjarni> why would that make you somewhat... you know, if you start to always be in the attic in your parent's house at that age?
20:59:51  <Bjarni> :p
20:59:52  <BobingAbout> erm, yes, if sacro is 22
21:00:04  <Bjarni> I think he is 21
21:00:08  <Bjarni> but that's not important
21:00:14  <BobingAbout> lol
21:00:16  <Bjarni> around the same age
21:00:34  <BobingAbout> so, i'm 22 and i live in my mums attic, whats up with that?
21:00:35  <Bjarni> 22 years old, living in the attic at your parent's
21:00:51  <Bjarni> it will sound like you will never move away from home
21:00:54  <peter1138> Bjarni: something you aspire to?
21:01:03  <BobingAbout> mums house, she kicked dad out 5 years ago, but thats none of your buisness
21:01:21  <BobingAbout> well, i work
21:01:26  <Bjarni> he placed his computer in the living room as well?
21:01:43  <BobingAbout> i had saved over £7000, before i bought this computer
21:02:04  <ln-> pretty expensive a computer.
21:02:06  <Bjarni> now that sounds like a great computer
21:02:11  <peter1138> i hope you still have at least £6000 left :)
21:02:22  <BobingAbout> my computer is only in the living room, because i'm setting it all up, she'll probably demand i move it somewhere else soon
21:02:29  <BobingAbout> lol
21:02:37  <BobingAbout> the computer base unit cost £1200
21:02:50  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-211-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02:59  <BobingAbout> i do have about £6250 left, but there has been a payday since then
21:03:15  <peter1138> hey
21:03:23  <peter1138> i still owe my dad £7000
21:03:27  * peter1138 robs BobingAbout
21:03:36  <Bjarni> o_O
21:03:38  * BobingAbout slaps peter1138 with a large smelly trout
21:03:45  <Bjarni> peter1138 beats Sacro to do that
21:03:58  <Bjarni> even though Sacro might need the money more than anybody else in here
21:04:01  <BobingAbout> yer, i bet sacro is in debt too
21:04:23  <BobingAbout> he was in debt last time i met him
21:05:31  <Bjarni> I don't get why people get in debt unless they buy something like a house. Usually it's a sign of bad judgement of economy
21:05:44  <peter1138> well, usually it's... that :)
21:05:52  <peter1138> or unexpected badness
21:05:53  <Bjarni> if you save up and buy stuff instead of buy stuff and then pay the debt, you will be able to buy more stuff
21:05:55  <peter1138> or sometimes
21:05:57  <BobingAbout> sounds like sacro, as i said, he has a brain but doesn't use it
21:05:59  <Bjarni> since it's not free to make a loan
21:06:00  <peter1138> you just need a really good pc
21:06:25  <BobingAbout> i have a really good PC.... with a dodgy ram slot...
21:06:39  <peter1138> i had one
21:06:43  <peter1138> but it's 6 years old now :(
21:06:56  <BobingAbout> should i send the motherboard back?
21:07:04  <peter1138> if it's faulty, yes
21:07:11  <BobingAbout> ram slot 1
21:08:09  <Bjarni> it's not important what is wrong with it, if it's faulty, then demand a replacement
21:09:39  <BobingAbout> last time i did that, it took 3 months to get a replacement...
21:10:14  <Bjarni> I don't know about UK laws, but that would be illegal to make you wait that long here
21:11:00  <Bjarni> if the problem is that they can't get another one because it's in short supply, then they will have to give you another model or the money back
21:11:16  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-150-161.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:11:28  <Sacro> hmm... what happened there?
21:11:36  <peter1138> you went away
21:11:41  <Sacro> :( i know
21:19:16  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... did anyone do anything to the PBS in MiniIN?
21:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't appear to work anymore
21:22:28  <peter1138> i have a complaint
21:22:43  <peter1138> not enough forum posts for me to read ;p
21:24:13  <Sacro> peter1138! new... errr... something else!
21:24:22  <Sacro> cargoes! industries!
21:24:30  <BobingAbout> did you look at osignals?
21:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, should i?
21:27:20  <BobingAbout> i think you should check it out
21:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> would that change anything?
21:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it appears the PBS work in some train constellations, but not others...
21:28:11  <peter1138> constellation?
21:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, trains coming from different directions
21:29:40  <glx> basic check: yapf is disabled and npf is enabled ?
21:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
21:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i did check that before asking...
21:34:28  *** chu_ [] has left #openttd []
21:35:26  <Wolf01> good night
21:35:30  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
21:38:25  <BobingAbout> DX9c
21:46:06  *** Bear [] has joined #openttd
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21:48:39  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
21:49:07  <peter1138> boo
21:49:16  <peter1138> combroadw doesn't use GRM :(
21:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... with 32x daylength, 1 month autosave is a looong time...
21:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> what is GRM?
21:49:53  <peter1138> some things are adjusted that shouldn't be
21:49:58  <peter1138> grf resource management
21:50:14  <BobingAbout> llol
21:50:37  * peter1138 ponders trying a non-ukrs game
21:50:44  <BobingAbout> with 1 month autosave, maybe it should be adjusted to 1day autosave if its 32x?
21:51:16  <BobingAbout> if you want to try a non-UKRS game, try a UBRS(or whatever it is) game
21:51:30  <peter1138> UB?
21:51:38  <BobingAbout> the american 1, i forget its name
21:51:42  <BobingAbout> PB made it
21:51:43  <peter1138> NARS
21:51:49  <BobingAbout> NARS, yes
21:51:57  <peter1138> UK standing for United Kingdom, obviously
21:52:00  <BobingAbout> where the hell did i get UBRS from :P
21:52:04  <peter1138> crack?
21:52:08  <peter1138> however
21:52:11  <peter1138> i don't like nars
21:52:14  <BobingAbout> lol
21:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure these PBS out...
21:52:23  <BobingAbout> why don't you play UKRSI? :P
21:52:44  <peter1138> because we've not finished it yet
21:52:45  <BobingAbout> most confusing thing about PBS is that it was different to TTDPatch's PBS
21:52:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the one time they do work, they crash the trains
21:53:03  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
21:54:45  *** dOb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:54:49  * peter1138 notes: starting in 1910 is not that useful
21:55:27  <BobingAbout> aye
21:55:41  <BobingAbout> 1920 is the earliest that kinda works
21:58:55  <Darkvater> I want human-pulled carts
21:59:03  <BobingAbout> lol
21:59:13  <BobingAbout> what, in 1753?
22:00:42  <Darkvater> 2020
22:01:00  *** dOb [] has joined #openttd
22:01:04  <Darkvater> I think overpopulation will be so drastic that human labour will drop drastically in price
22:01:16  <Darkvater> since all fossil fuel will run out we will have no other choice
22:02:26  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: I did a quick test (very simple test indeed) and it works
22:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> soilent green transport ;)
22:04:06  *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel
22:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i restarted the game, and now it appears to work properly (for now)
22:07:49  <glx> hehe the joy of pbs :)
22:09:05  <hylje> pbs means you dont need to make ingenious rails
22:09:37  <Sacro> Darkvater: fuel from burning people?
22:09:44  <hylje> yes!
22:09:53  <hylje> power stations can make power from everything
22:10:06  *** Neonox [] has joined #openttd
22:10:11  <Darkvater> donnu, might be not so power effective
22:10:16  <hylje> coal, oil, wood, livestock, people, mail (:D), valuables, grain...
22:10:55  <hylje> i would *SO* love a mail incinerating power station
22:10:58  <Naksu> valuables?
22:11:17  <hylje> valuables. stuff you generally move from bank to bank in temperate
22:11:27  <Sacro> brb, chav shouting
22:11:28  <Naksu> yeah but how you'd get energy from those?
22:11:31  * Sacro grabs the rifle
22:12:07  <hylje> dunno. you burn it :)
22:12:09  <hylje> cash burns
22:12:24  <Naksu> gold doesnt
22:12:57  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13:13  <Darkvater> gold also burns
22:13:22  <Darkvater> just at a 'slightly' higher temperature
22:14:09  <BobingAbout> gold doesn't burn, it melts
22:14:16  <Naksu> it melts at 1000-ish celsius
22:14:19  <Naksu> doesnt burn
22:14:36  <Darkvater> and after that?
22:14:48  <Darkvater> hmm, it evaporates
22:14:49  <BobingAbout> it evaporates
22:15:18  <hylje> evaporated gold !
22:15:42  <BobingAbout> i supose its a good way to gold plate your ceiling
22:15:46  *** Tino|Home [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:15:55  <BobingAbout> :P
22:15:59  <Naksu> theoretically you could try bombing it in a particle accelerator to make some fuzzy isotope which would decay into stuff
22:16:28  <Naksu> but gold isotopes like decaying into stable isotopes of mercury
22:16:33  <BobingAbout> why waste gold in a particle accelerator, any old object would be treated the same in there
22:17:05  <BobingAbout> or am i thinking of something else?
22:17:13  <Naksu> you're thinking of a fusion reactor
22:17:22  <BobingAbout> no, i'm not
22:17:37  <Naksu> which are pretty damn good for wiping stuff from the face of the earth
22:17:53  <Sacro> heh, i love the idea my brother had last night
22:17:59  <Sacro> or maybe found on uncyclopedia
22:18:04  <Sacro> chocolate coated black holes
22:18:26  <BobingAbout> black holes are interesting objects
22:18:28  <Naksu> huh?
22:18:51  <Sacro> Naksu: you eat the chocolate, and then get sucked out the universe inside out
22:19:08  <BobingAbout> the matter of a system being shrunk to the size of a pinhead
22:20:16  <peter1138> hmmm, this us set starts off at 80 mph ;(
22:20:20  <peter1138> too easy
22:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i still occasionally have trains stopping, even though their path would be free...
22:37:31  *** wonea [] has joined #openttd
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22:39:55  <SimonRC> Sacro: That wouldn't work, alas.
22:40:01  <BobingAbout> peter, have you tried osignals yet?
22:40:33  *** amix [] has joined #openttd
22:40:46  <SimonRC> Either the resulting confection would be too heavy to lift, or it would emit several GW of radiation, or it would exsplode, or some combination of the above.
22:41:12  <SimonRC> which would be destructive, but not as cool as your intended effect.
22:42:30  <BobingAbout> ergh
22:42:40  <BobingAbout> i don't even know why i called them osignals
22:42:47  <SimonRC> what are they?
22:43:17  <BobingAbout> a bunch of MB's Pre-signal and PBS signal STYLE regular signal replacements
22:43:40  <SimonRC> We need a new paradigm for signalling.
22:43:43  <SimonRC> :-P
22:43:49  <BobingAbout> a new what?
22:44:03  <SimonRC> but seriously, there has to be a better way than the current way,
22:44:21  <BobingAbout> erm, what are you talking about? PBS?
22:44:22  <SimonRC> I suppose PBS isn't too bad.
22:44:29  <SimonRC> Signalling generally.
22:44:32  <BobingAbout> just needs fixing
22:44:36  <SimonRC> hmm
22:44:42  <Sacro> SimonRC: stop quoting physics :p
22:44:47  <SimonRC> ???
22:44:56  <SimonRC> ah, oh, yeah
22:45:05  <BobingAbout> i'm hopefully going to work on newsignals stuff
22:45:11  <Sacro> and surely it would implode
22:45:16  <SimonRC> no
22:45:21  <BobingAbout> i dunno how far involved i am actually going to get though
22:45:32  <Sacro> BobingAbout: i think KUDr has ported LUA into OpenTTD
22:45:41  <BobingAbout> LUA?
22:45:53  <jez> A question about accessors, for example in "bridge_map.h"
22:46:03  <jez> You declare all of your accessor functions 'static'
22:46:15  <jez> it was my understanding that that limited the scope of the function to the current text file
22:46:19  <jez> is that true?
22:46:23  <Darkvater> it's a header file
22:46:27  <SimonRC> It is quite hard to get *anything* to enter a volume the size of the nucleus of an atom which is emitting several GW of Hawking radiation.
22:46:47  <SimonRC> eh?
22:46:54  <jez> Darkvater: so, what's the benefit of making them static then
22:46:57  <SimonRC> is there a good reason there are functions in a header file?
22:47:01  <BobingAbout> ok, thats got nothing to do with ottd
22:47:18  <Sacro> BobingAbout: it will allow scripting of signals
22:47:22  <SimonRC> jez: so you don't confuse the linker if the header file in included in multiple places?
22:47:47  <jez> i thought you used #ifdefs for that
22:47:53  <Darkvater> hmm, gn people
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22:48:14  <SimonRC> jez: Erm, you are confusing #include with linking
22:49:02  <SimonRC> if two C files each include the same header file, then any functions in the header file will need to be static if you want to link the resulting two object files together.
22:49:29  <SimonRC> otherwise the two copies will both be visible to the linker and it will get confused.
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22:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... weird... converting rail when train is in the way works on free track, but not in stations
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22:55:34  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: does it?
22:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in MiniIN, at least
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23:03:09  <lws1984> Sacro!
23:07:21  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: bin wech....]
23:19:50  <Bjarni> lws1984: I give you 2 penalty points for trying to summon the devil
23:20:29  <Sacro> Bjarni!
23:20:31  <Sacro> lws1984!
23:20:38  <lws1984> Bjarni!
23:20:47  <lws1984> 2 penalty ponits? :o
23:20:47  <Sacro> group hug!
23:20:52  <Bjarni> what's with all the namecalling?
23:21:10  <lws1984> it's a form of greeting for us
23:21:14  * lws1984 hugs all present
23:22:02  <Bjarni> what do you want?
23:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: btw (fixes typo of mine...)
23:23:58  <lws1984> nothing, just saying hello
23:24:00  <lws1984> :p
23:24:45  <Bjarni> nah, you don't fool me
23:24:49  <Bjarni> you are up to something
23:24:55  <Bjarni> I can sense it
23:26:36  * Sacro giggles
23:26:52  <coronel> Is it possible to load a scenario in a dedicated server from the console?
23:26:59  <lws1984> me? nope
23:27:00  <Sacro> coronel: yes
23:27:06  <lws1984> OpenTTD works! normally!
23:27:07  <coronel> list_cmds didn't give me any clues.
23:27:11  <coronel> Sacro: Oh? :)
23:27:13  <Sacro> coronel: it wont :p
23:27:27  <coronel> Sacro: There's a hidden feature here?
23:27:31  <Sacro> coronel: openttd --help might help ;)
23:27:37  <coronel> Sacro: Alright. Thank you.
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23:27:52  <Sacro> yay, hes gone
23:28:05  * Bjarni detects Sacro celebrating
23:28:11  <Bjarni> btw why do you hate him that much?
23:28:30  <Bjarni> he didn't say that you are stupid
23:29:12  <Bjarni> <lws1984>	OpenTTD works! normally! <-- btw do you still have the issue where you have to compile OpenTTD yourself to increase speed?
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23:30:28  <coronel> Sacro: No, it doesn't give any clues.
23:30:34  <Sacro> Bjarni: he drives me mad
23:30:58  <Bjarni> I thought that was your mom doing that :/
23:32:34  <Bjarni> coronel: it is, but you might have to start a game normally and then save it and load that savegame with the dedicated server
23:33:05  <Sacro> coronel: isnt it -g?
23:33:48  <coronel> Sacro: -g is for loading saved games.
23:34:07  <coronel> Bjarni: Oh. Thanks. So no scenario-loading from console, yet? :)
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23:36:35  <Bjarni> I don't think so
23:36:45  <Sacro> coronel: a scenario is a saved game afaik
23:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> if anyone feels like checking out the PBS problem, i have a savegame:
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23:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause> you can load scenarios, by renaming them to .sav
23:39:09  <pringles> is it ok to request help compiling ;)
23:41:01  <Sacro> pringles: make :)
23:41:18  <pringles> hehe with vs8
23:41:26  <Sacro> download cygwin
23:41:27  <pringles> i followed the guide to setup libs and includes
23:41:29  <Sacro> or mingw
23:42:47  <pringles> i get only 1 error
23:42:56  <pringles> and i'm not sure why
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23:43:05  <Sacro> whats the error?
23:43:18  <pringles> Compiling resources...
23:43:19  <pringles> .\ottdres.rc(57) : error RC2104 : undefined keyword or key name: IDC_STATIC
23:43:31  <Sacro> IDC...
23:43:35  * Sacro thinks
23:44:41  <Eddi|zuHause> (for the above savegame)
23:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not yet detetected a pattern when PBS fail and when not
23:51:18  <Bjarni> 50° 0'38.20"N 110° 6'48.32"W <-- try to enter this in google earth
23:51:35  <Bjarni> it's an indian territory (or at least it looks like that)
23:51:38  <Bjarni> o_O
23:53:14  <ln-> ok, nice, but after all it's not *that* enormous.
23:53:41  * Bjarni got those coordinates from a newspaper
23:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause> realistic accelleration is great :)
23:54:11  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: PBS will be totally rewritten since it's known to fail once in a while
23:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause> you really notice the difference if a 10 wagon train is hauled by a BR 75 (Steam) or a E 62 (Electric)
23:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: the problem is, it is not "once in a while"
23:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but more like "every second time"
23:55:29  <Bjarni> ok, it got worse
23:55:52  <Bjarni> it's pretty hard if not impossible to fix, so it's likely faster to start all over
23:55:57  <pringles> does anyone else use vs c++ 2005 exp
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23:56:41  <glx> pringles: yes, I remember I had this error too
23:57:02  <pringles> any clue if it can be fixed or how?
23:57:49  <Sacro> im getting VS 2005 Pro next week :D
23:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: yeah, but people are talking about starting over for over half a year already...
23:58:46  <Naksu> pfft
23:59:26  <Naksu> just nuke it from the source

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