Log for #openttd on 5th November 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:53  <roboboy> silly oftc, my bot wont join OFTC
00:12:09  <SpComb> heh
00:12:18  <SpComb> what bot is it?
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00:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Born_Acorn: well, that is part of the problem, how can you conform to something if everything that even remotely conforms to it is taken away
00:26:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not only machines, it's also patents and stuff
00:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and also the scientifical "elite", that was usually forced to join "the party"
00:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so basically every leading scientist got dismissed because of being member of "the party"
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00:46:29  <Sacro> g'night all
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01:10:15  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7060 /trunk/video/win32_v.c:
01:10:15  <CIA-1> -Fix (r5874): Restore of window maximized state not always working (Mart3p) . Remember
01:10:15  <CIA-1>  maximize state even between switching fullscreen/windowed mode.
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01:13:23  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7061 /trunk/video/win32_v.c: -[win32] Feature: Remember the window size between restarts when quit in fullscreen mode.
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01:53:28  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7062 /trunk/video/win32_v.c:
01:53:28  <CIA-1> -[win32] Codechange: Remove unneeded WM_MOUSEENTER event, and change mouse behaviour
01:53:28  <CIA-1>  a bit so that any specific windows inside (eg IME compositor) will have a cursor.
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02:00:41  <DarkSSH> I should..yes sleep
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02:38:49  <ln->
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04:13:22  <Zevensoft> hrm eagle filter on ottd doesnt look as good as I thought it would
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06:07:31  <lws> grr..r.rr
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08:02:18  <Tron> morning, Celestar_
08:02:20  <CIA-1> tron * r7063 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c: static
08:02:41  <hylje> wut
08:03:42  <Tron> zomg!
08:05:49  <hylje>
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08:24:17  <CIA-1> tron * r7064 /trunk/currency.c: static
08:24:54  <hylje> could you make your commit messages a bit less descriptive, Tron ?
08:25:08  <CIA-1> tron * r7065 /trunk/ (genworld_gui.c newgrf.c openttd.c settings_gui.c sound.c): Use simple assignment instead of memcpy()
08:26:36  <Tron> hylje: learn C, it's a keyword, there's exactly one thing you can do with it
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09:04:36  * peter1138 yawns
09:07:24  * Tron grunts
09:08:48  <peter1138> can you undo some of that last one please?
09:09:36  <Tron> probably, why?
09:09:49  <peter1138> the sound part is wrong
09:10:16  <Tron> huh?
09:10:35  <Tron> really? i even compiled before and after and the assembly was the same
09:10:43  <Tron> which change exactly?
09:12:11  <peter1138> ok
09:12:18  <peter1138> then i'll shut up and say i didn't know you could do that
09:12:44  <Tron> tell me which change you suspect
09:12:46  <hylje> hehe
09:12:50  <Tron> maybe i did something wrong
09:12:53  <peter1138> uh, except shutting up and saying something are not compatible :)
09:12:58  <Tron> the *GetSound() one?
09:13:35  <peter1138> *fe = *orig (etc) looks fishy to me, but i guess i'm confusing it with fe = orig...
09:13:52  <Tron> fe = orig assigns the pointers
09:13:57  <Tron> *fe = *orig assigns the values
09:14:17  <Tron> int* x; int* y;
09:14:33  <Tron> x = y; // x points to the same address as y
09:14:42  <Tron> int* x = &a; int* y = &b;
09:15:01  <Tron> *x = *y; // same as *&a = *&b, same as a = b
09:15:54  <peter1138> right
09:16:00  <peter1138> i shall go back to sleep then
09:17:11  <peter1138> and wonder why, if ubuntu edgy was released, i've still got a bad python install after a dist-upgrade
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09:20:42  <Steve14> good morning
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09:40:29  <chu_> moring. my patch is online -
09:40:45  <chu_> have fun. hope, you like it
09:41:06  <Steve14> what does it fix ?
09:41:34  <chu_> steve - just read the bug-track-entry
09:41:40  <chu_> it's all written there
09:42:32  <Steve14> oki, sorry for the stupid question ;)
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10:42:33  <Celestar_> heyho
10:42:36  <Celestar_> KUDr_wrk: you around?
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10:44:41  <Celestar_> seems not so
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10:46:31  <KUDr> Celestar: yes
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10:48:47  <KUDr> Celestar_: yes, here
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11:05:06  <roboboy> gnight
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11:13:04  <Celestar_> KUDr: do you have any idea when "we" could find time for newsignalling?
11:13:58  <DarkSSH> :O
11:14:03  <DarkSSH> the AI just built elrails
11:14:36  <Celestar_> yes of course ...
11:15:04  <Celestar_> DarkSSH:  why should it not?
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11:15:15  <Tron> it always builds the latest available railtype
11:15:42  <Celestar_> ay
11:15:56  <DarkSSH> donnu, cause it's the ai :)
11:16:03  <Celestar_> cf. Tron
11:16:27  <KUDr> Celestar_: hopefully i can start this month, but still not sure how much time i'll have
11:17:19  <Celestar_> ok
11:17:27  <Celestar_> KUDr: sync with me, I want to test/help
11:17:38  <CIA-1> tron * r7066 /trunk/viewport.c: -Codechange: Factorise common code
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11:18:17  <Celestar_> woha
11:18:33  <Celestar_> the whole compute center at uni was offline tonight
11:19:13  <Celestar_> because of a brownout
11:19:25  <Celestar_> I told them a HUNDRED times not to buy 4000 Itaniums :S
11:19:26  <KUDr> Celestar_: i will, when i create branch and start commiting i expect brainstormings and changes - i would like to start with LUA script - then implement newsig functionality in LUA (prototyping) with lot of changes durung development
11:19:32  <Tron> a brownout? in bavaria?
11:19:41  <Celestar_> Tron: just inside the building :)
11:19:51  <Celestar_> KUDr: LUA?
11:19:56  <KUDr> yes
11:20:00  <Celestar_> Tron: too many Itaniums :P
11:20:05  <Celestar_> KUDr: what is a LUA?
11:20:18  <Tron> YASL
11:20:25  <Tron> Yet Another Scripting Language
11:20:30  <Celestar_> lol
11:20:31  <Celestar_> ok
11:20:45  <Celestar_> KUDr: I'll improve my last concept later this week, k?
11:20:48  <KUDr> heh, it can be removed later
11:21:02  <Tron> its most remarkable feature is the /very/ strange way it handles functions returning tuples
11:21:16  <KUDr> Celestar_: no problem, i already forgot everything
11:21:20  <Tron> it's ... unintuitive, to say the least
11:21:23  <Celestar_> KUDr:  ok :)
11:21:37  <Celestar_> computers ARE unintuitive :P
11:21:51  <Celestar_> or is it the users ,...
11:22:29  <Celestar_> :o
11:22:34  <lefti> umm ... those dmh_ma newgrf really rock
11:22:39  <lefti> dmh_mac
11:23:04  <Celestar_> Aeroports de Paris fired 72 employees because they have "interaction with islamistic groups". So how did they get the job in the first place?!
11:24:24  <Celestar_> ok I'm off a bit.
11:24:26  <Celestar_> cu
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11:52:30  <CIA-1> tron * r7067 /trunk/ (texteff.c viewport.c viewport.h): Remove the unused parameter params_3 from AddStringToDraw()
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12:01:44  <Zevensoft> kinda screws up text though :/
12:03:05  <DarkSSH> Zevensoft: yeah, doesn't really work
12:04:28  <peter1138> heh
12:04:34  <Zevensoft> the track looks smooth though
12:05:16  <peter1138> hmm, and the hangar gets fine lines
12:06:59  <Zevensoft> isnt it meant to?
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12:09:38  <Zevensoft> ah right
12:09:43  <Sacro> yay, colourful tabs are back
12:09:43  <Zevensoft> they're meant to be vertical
12:09:44  <Zevensoft> heh
12:13:56  <peter1138> Zevensoft: no idea, heh
12:14:32  <Zevensoft> the filter is similar to how hq3x works, only in 8-bit
12:14:40  <Zevensoft> and not quite at the same level yet heh
12:15:51  <Tron> if you could get rid of the artifact that vertical lines degenrate, then it would look really nice
12:17:13  <Tron> s/degenrate/degenerate/
12:21:57  <Zevensoft> text is a little better
12:22:04  <Zevensoft> but there is still a vertical line issue
12:22:05  <Zevensoft> hrm
12:23:24  <guru3> what is that?
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12:23:33  <jez> someone remind me - what's wrong with the default TTD graphics mode?
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12:23:51  <Tron> much better
12:23:56  <Zevensoft> if your resolution is too high, its still tiny
12:24:16  <jez> x2 nearest-neighbour interpolation
12:24:19  <Zevensoft> btw TV filter is pretty nice for quality, just very dark
12:24:41  <Zevensoft> also made a sort of vertical linear interpolation
12:24:52  <Zevensoft> but that just looks blurry
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12:25:53  <Tron> <--- big enough? (:
12:26:06  <Zevensoft> hehe
12:26:10  <Sacro> what are you doing?
12:26:26  <Zevensoft> have you played railroads?
12:26:33  <Sacro> no
12:26:35  <Zevensoft> that game borrows a lot from ottd
12:26:59  <XeryusTC> Zevensoft: sid meier's railroads?
12:27:00  <CIA-1> tron * r7068 /trunk/viewport.c: if () cascades -> switch ()
12:27:19  <Zevensoft> yeah
12:28:29  <XeryusTC> the only thing SMR has in common with OTTD is trains AFAICT
12:28:42  <XeryusTC> oh, and signals :P
12:28:56  <Tron> rails, maybe
12:29:24  <Zevensoft> buying companys?
12:29:26  <Zevensoft> *companies
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12:30:44  <XeryusTC> i never got to the point of buying company and stuff
12:30:58  <XeryusTC> i uninstalled the game after the first CTD
12:33:30  <Noldo> Tron: why is switch better there?
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12:33:59  <XeryusTC> Noldo: switches are always better
12:34:07  <Noldo> why?
12:37:05  <ln-> Zevensoft: can you identify the parts of ottd that it does not borrow from TTD?
12:37:57  <Tron> if (x < 1) {
12:38:01  <Tron> } else if (x == 1) {
12:38:06  <Tron> } else {
12:38:16  <XeryusTC> Noldo:
12:38:16  <Tron>  assert(x == 2);
12:38:17  <Tron> }
12:38:19  <Tron> vs.
12:38:22  <Tron> switch (x) {
12:38:25  <Tron>   case 0:
12:38:26  <Tron>   case 1:
12:38:29  <Tron>   case 2:
12:38:35  <Tron>   default: NOT_REACHED();
12:38:35  <Tron> }
12:38:37  <Tron> questions?
12:38:58  <guru3> using the switch doesn't it get to NOT_REACHED no matter what then?
12:39:03  <Noldo> that case was very clear, but do you have some more general rule of thumb?
12:39:37  <DarkSSH> Tron: is x signed/unsigned?
12:39:44  <Tron> guru3: as you can see i left out MANY things, the break;s is one of them
12:39:49  <Tron> DarkSSH: byte
12:39:49  <guru3> ok
12:40:03  <Tron> DarkSSH: it always is 0, 1 or 2. It's the zoom level
12:40:06  <DarkSSH> good
12:40:28  <Tron> XeryusTC: a good compiler cares jack shit what flavor of syntactic sugar you throw at it
12:41:58  <Sacro> but a bad compiler...
12:42:09  * DarkSSH slaps Sacro
12:42:41  <Sacro> :( why do people keep doing that?
12:45:14  <Zevensoft> why only 3 zoom levels
12:45:23  <Zevensoft> what if someone made a half zoom filter...
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12:50:09  <XeryusTC> Zevensoft: you could add a case 4 for that soom level then
12:50:35  <XeryusTC> or make it level 1, and renumber the other levels
12:51:21  <Zevensoft> I dont know if the filter code would work in the blitter
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12:59:52  <peter1138> XeryusTC: it starts at 0 ;p
13:00:02  <UserErr0r> nightly
13:00:07  <UserErr0r> erm
13:00:09  <peter1138> daily!
13:00:24  <UserErr0r> i assumed it was a trigger in the topic
13:00:37  <UserErr0r> unless
13:00:38  <peter1138> apt name ;p
13:00:39  <UserErr0r> !nightly
13:00:42  <UserErr0r> :/
13:00:44  <peter1138> it's a usr
13:00:45  <peter1138> err
13:00:47  <peter1138> it's a url
13:00:50  <peter1138>
13:00:53  <UserErr0r> oh i see
13:01:00  <UserErr0r> nerdy wildcard
13:01:09  <peter1138> not really
13:01:14  <peter1138> it's not a regex...
13:01:18  <UserErr0r> hah.
13:01:32  <hylje> wuts wrong with regexpes
13:01:36  <XeryusTC> <@peter1138> XeryusTC: it starts at 0 ;p <- make it 3 then >:(
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13:15:28  <peter1138> these large airports are silly
13:15:39  <peter1138> what i need is a 'freight' airport
13:15:44  <peter1138> long and thin
13:15:53  <peter1138> hmm
13:20:14  <Zevensoft> military
13:20:42  <Zevensoft> kinda like a double long small airport
13:20:53  <Zevensoft> *twice as long
13:22:32  <Naksu> tbh
13:22:39  <Naksu> airports in ttd are pretty broken
13:30:15  <XeryusTC> peter1138: is the commuter airport what you want?
13:31:28  <peter1138> no, still too wide
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15:19:39  <Tron> heya, mr egladil
15:20:07  <egladil> hi
15:21:37  <Tron> the 32bpp blitter is your work?
15:21:53  <egladil> yeah
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15:24:51  <Tron> do you make use of RLE compression for the fully transparent parts?
15:27:13  <egladil> no
15:38:08  <lefti> i don't see PBS on 0.5.0 roadmap :-(, is it because i haven't good eyes or because you don't like it?
15:38:34  <glx> lefti: because it's not done yet
15:39:25  <egladil> Tron: if you have any ideas for implementing it i would love to hear them, but i'm a bit short on time right now
15:39:43  <Tron> i have actual code
15:40:25  <helb> Hello, I have MiniIN r7045 now and it's posible to change start year ever to zero. It's a bug or feature? :)
15:40:35  * peter1138 ponders rating road vehicles
15:40:36  <hylje> feature
15:40:40  <peter1138> speed * capacity?
15:40:42  <hylje> date can go from 0 to 5 million
15:40:51  <hylje> it used to be 1920-251
15:40:53  <hylje> 2051
15:42:05  <helb> OK, thanks.
15:42:07  <peter1138> that reminds me
15:44:32  <egladil> Tron: ok
15:46:44  <egladil> well, as i said i'm a bit busy right now can i get back to you on that later tonight if you have time then?
15:46:47  <Tron> , if you're interested
15:46:59  <egladil> ok, thanks
15:48:27  * peter1138 ponders an 'automatic' start date
15:48:49  <peter1138> set the start date to the introduction date of the first vehicle. or something.
15:50:44  <Tron> call it new date!
15:50:45  <Tron> nono
15:50:47  <Tron> magic date!
15:52:19  <XeryusTC> magic dates!
15:52:33  <XeryusTC> let's call everything magic
15:52:36  <XeryusTC> magic stations!
15:52:38  <XeryusTC> magic houses!
15:52:39  <Tron> magic magic!
15:52:41  <hylje> s/new/magic/
15:52:46  <peter1138> magic bridges ;/
15:52:57  <hylje> they are.
15:52:58  <XeryusTC> magicgrf!
15:53:00  <Neonox> magic language!
15:53:05  <Tron> i'd call that zomg-bridges-in-two-bits
15:53:09  <hylje> MagicTTD
15:53:14  <peter1138> KUDr: bug related to gettiletrackstatus: ai tries to build through the back of depots
15:53:16  <hylje> i mean, MagicMMM
15:53:26  <Tron> <peter1138> KUDr: bug related to gettiletrackstatus: ai tries to build through the back of depots <--- *sigh*
15:53:33  <Tron> i said it so many times
15:54:04  <KUDr> peter1138: i will look at it
15:54:05  <Tron> setting trackbits for depots/road stops simply gives problems
15:54:30  <KUDr> Tron: right but i promised i will deal with them
15:54:46  <KUDr> as it is cleaner
15:55:07  <hylje> hackery
15:55:10  <KUDr> rail depots have also track inside
15:55:11  <peter1138> well... you just end up moving special cases from one place to another
15:55:20  <Sacro> Tron: i like the idea of using zomg
15:55:40  <Sacro> peter1138! zomgcargos!
15:55:41  <Tron> KUDr: no, it's not cleaner
15:55:48  <KUDr> peter1138: true, but it is more consistent across transport types
15:56:21  <KUDr> Tron: then we should remove the track also from rail depots
15:56:31  <KUDr> and will have the similar probs
15:56:37  <Tron> there is no way to enter and leave a rail depot on 2 different edges
15:56:50  <Tron> yes, rail depots, road stops, road depots
15:56:59  <Tron> they should all return 0
15:57:08  <peter1138> anything with an entrance only on one side
15:57:09  <KUDr> what is the difference between them?
15:57:18  <Tron> so the special casing is solely in the pathfinder
15:57:38  <KUDr> and controller
15:57:39  <Tron> and it's not really a special case either
15:57:45  <Tron> because it cannot cross these tiles
15:58:05  <Tron> it's either a dead end or the destination
15:58:09  <KUDr> but can enter (there can be a destination also)
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15:58:25  <Tron> when it's the destination it must already be handles specially
15:58:30  <KUDr> rail depot is not just dead end
15:58:46  <KUDr> trains can reverse there in different way
15:58:47  <Tron> otherwise we would see trains trying to enter depots from behind if a rail is accidently connected there
15:59:04  <jez> i love TTD's magical train depots
15:59:12  <jez> train with 100 carriages fits into 1 square :-)
15:59:23  * Sacro is going to write a patch for proper depots
15:59:36  <hylje> jez: its actually a large hole in the ground
15:59:37  <KUDr> Tron there is special handling for rail depots in AI
15:59:40  <jez> heh
15:59:45  <hylje> jez: and the trains are pushed down and up it
15:59:47  <KUDr> so why not for road depots
15:59:51  <KUDr> it is the same
15:59:56  <hylje> jez: thats why they leave and enter so slowly
16:00:27  <Sacro> underground depots?
16:00:45  <KUDr> there is simply no logical difference between both depot types
16:02:38  <Tron> tel
16:16:24  <peter1138> either way
16:16:29  <peter1138> this one needs fixing cos it's common
16:16:51  <peter1138> yay, ai using george's lvs
16:17:02  <peter1138> now we just need a vehicle set that isn't the wrong size...
16:17:19  <Sacro> hovs?
16:17:53  <peter1138> is not complete :(
16:18:04  <peter1138> and is also broken
16:18:15  <Sacro> hmm
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16:28:24  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newcargos!
16:29:15  <peter1138> yes
16:29:19  <peter1138> what about it?
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16:31:50  <Born_Acorn> It's new!
16:31:55  <Born_Acorn> and has cargos!
16:31:58  <Born_Acorn> Do not you see?
16:32:09  <peter1138> of course i see it
16:32:13  <peter1138> i've got it here in front of me
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16:32:47  <Born_Acorn> But have you?
16:33:03  <Born_Acorn> I thought you only had a monitor displaying it there in front of you!
16:35:29  <peter1138> well yes
16:35:35  <peter1138> what more do you need?
16:36:10  <peter1138> well
16:36:14  <peter1138> what more do i need?
16:41:40  <Sacro> peter1138: to commit it to svn
16:43:30  <Born_Acorn> Yes! So we can know the support is there but not use it in any way!
16:46:38  <KUDr> peter1138: do you have some savegame where this bug occurs?
16:46:55  <KUDr> or better to say "will occur"
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16:48:00  <peter1138> KUDr: no
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16:48:14  <peter1138> i just started a new game with 7 (old) AIs
16:48:17  <peter1138> wait a bit
16:48:26  <peter1138> and it'll happen
16:49:35  <Sacro> :( oh dear...
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16:52:03  <jez> hmm
16:52:11  <jez> sounds like a scriptable AI could fix that more easily
16:53:36  <KUDr> peter1138: and was it road depot?
16:53:42  <peter1138> yes
16:53:48  <KUDr> ok
16:53:49  <peter1138> oh, i disabled everything else for ai
16:54:08  <peter1138> so it only uses road
16:54:15  <peter1138> probably makes it happen sooner
16:54:34  <KUDr> ahh
16:54:52  <KUDr> the 'disables' work for old AI too?
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16:55:44  <peter1138> yes
16:56:01  <KUDr> didnt know that :)
16:57:54  <peter1138> the new AI only uses road vehicles anyway... :)
17:00:50  <KUDr> true
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17:06:36  <jez> new AI?
17:06:40  <jez> what is this talk of new AI?
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17:11:01  <peter1138> well
17:11:03  <peter1138> the old new AI
17:11:21  <peter1138> this is what comes of calling things "new"...
17:11:31  <peter1138> npf... new path finder o_O
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17:14:58  <glx> what was the 'N' in NTP ?
17:15:13  <smeding> network, no?
17:15:34  <Sacro> network
17:15:51  <Sacro> or new...
17:16:03  <KUDr> new train pf
17:16:12  <Sacro> heh, i thought network time protocol
17:16:21  <KUDr> aha
17:19:37  <smeding> heh, same here
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17:33:13  <Sacro> !calc 750*6
17:33:15  <_42_> Sacro: 4500;
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17:33:36  <hylje> !calc 1/0
17:33:38  <_42_> hylje: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=3): Divide by zero;
17:33:43  <chu_> re
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17:43:12  <Tron> hm, the benchmarking was fun
17:43:25  <Tron> now we try it with optimisations switched on
17:43:27  <Tron> *cough*
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18:06:01  <hrshgn> Hi, can anyone tell me what the function GB in openttd does?
18:06:20  <chu_> GB is get bits
18:06:24  <Sacro> get bits
18:06:31  <Sacro> and its not a function afaik its a macro
18:06:43  <chu_> macros.h:#define GB(x, s, n) (((x) >> (s)) & ((1U << (n)) - 1))
18:07:10  <hrshgn> thanks a lot
18:07:24  <chu_> it extracts n bits from x, starting at s
18:07:50  <chu_> this n bits are moved to the lowest bits of the result
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18:08:48  <hrshgn> ah, i see
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18:30:31  <chu_> <-small bug in station filter (two missing equal signs)
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18:32:57  <chu_> one question to the regular players - how do you cope with old vehichles?
18:35:06  <jez> the originals from TTD?
18:35:09  <jez> they're the best! :-)
18:38:09  <peter1138> `
18:38:15  <peter1138>   n7yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy6
18:38:18  <peter1138>
18:38:21  <peter1138> n
18:38:27  <chu_> no i mean, what do you do, when your vehicles get old
18:38:49  <jez> autoreplace?
18:38:53  <chu_> do you use the patch-function for autoreplacing or do you replace them manually?
18:39:01  <jez> definitely not manually :-)
18:39:20  <chu_> or do you even turn off vehicle-aging
18:39:28  <jez> not me
18:39:32  <Sacro> peter1138: ?
18:39:47  <chu_> i have more than 300 vehicles in my game
18:39:58  <chu_> every "year" more than 20 "get old"
18:40:04  <peter1138> desk cleaning :o
18:40:37  * peter1138 either gets them replaced automatically or ignores the messages
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18:40:54  <jez> ignore?  so you have them breaking down every 2 squares? :-)
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18:41:02  <chu_> peter1138 but when you ignore this messages, the vehicles start to break down
18:41:05  <peter1138> what?
18:41:11  <peter1138> who plays with breakdowns enabled?
18:41:21  <jez> people who arent playing in a boring sandbox
18:41:25  <peter1138> they breakdown every 2 squares even when they're brand new...
18:41:31  <jez> erm, no
18:41:35  <chu_> peter1138: that is not true
18:41:36  <jez> depends on reliability
18:41:49  <jez> some diesels get to reliability 98% or something
18:41:52  <jez> virtually never break down
18:42:35  <chu_> jez: the auto-replace feature can be reached via "configure patches" - there you can turn on, that a vehicle, wich gets old, is replaces by a vehicle of the same type
18:42:52  <jez> did i not know that?
18:42:54  <chu_> jez: but this is either on or off - for all types of vehicles
18:43:26  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7069 /trunk/ (ai/default/default.c pathfind.c): -Fix: AI tried to build road from the back or side of road stop/depot (peter1138)
18:43:51  <chu_> this is bad, especially, when one wants to convert from e-rail to monorail or maglevs
18:44:09  <jez> i find it's very rarely a problem
18:44:20  <jez> it'd only be annoying if it autoreplaced just before you wanted to upgrade
18:44:26  <jez> otherwise autoreplacing is almost always a good idea
18:44:48  <peter1138> even then the resale value is still high
18:44:51  <peter1138> so it's not that annoying
18:45:21  <jez> unlike my car's resale value
18:45:28  <Tron> !seen alltaken
18:45:28  <peter1138> quite
18:45:28  <_42_> Tron, Alltaken ( was last seen quitting #openttd 2 days 8 hours 7 minutes ago (03.11. 10:38) stating "Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]" after spending 3 hours 25 minutes there.
18:46:38  <Tron> KUDr: are you sure the change in pathfind.c is correct?
18:46:44  <chu_> i do not use autoreplace, because i want to differenciate a bit in the selection of my vehicles
18:47:05  <KUDr> Tron: i hope so
18:47:11  <Tron> you HOPE?
18:47:22  <chu_> (is this still called autoreplace, wehre one can select from a list, where one vehicle get replaced with an other?)
18:47:40  <KUDr> Tron: i always hope - im not perfect
18:48:11  <Tron> at least you should be pretty sure
18:48:18  <Tron> hoping sounds you have no clue
18:48:33  <Tron> s/you/like you/
18:48:34  <KUDr> i think it is correct
18:48:38  <peter1138> chu_: yes
18:48:42  <KUDr> but still i can be wrong
18:48:47  <peter1138> as distinct from autorenew
18:49:00  <Tron> *shrug*
18:49:01  <peter1138> (which is actually the same thing, but only to the same vehicle type)
18:49:21  <Tron> giving dead ends a track is just hassle
18:50:25  <peter1138> hmm, what happens for half road tiles? no track?
18:51:37  <KUDr> peter1138: don't understand - you mean GetTileTrackStatus()
18:51:45  <KUDr> ?
18:51:47  <chu_> peter1138: while you play with breakdowns disabled, it looks like autoreplace and autorenew are the same, but they are not
18:52:09  <chu_> peter1138: autoreplace replaces a vehicle as soon as its get into a depot - no matter how old it is
18:52:26  <chu_> peter1138: autorenew replaces a vehicle only if it's old enough
18:52:49  <Tron> peter1138: nope, nothing. road vehicles never enter these. they turn around before
18:53:24  <peter1138> Tron: i thought so
18:53:43  <peter1138> chu_: well yes
18:54:01  <jez> either we're being bombed, or it's fireworks night with fireworks
18:54:03  <jez> grr
18:54:34  <peter1138> heh
18:55:10  <jez> next door neighbour is having a bonfire
18:55:13  <jez> i can smell it.  yuck
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18:55:32  <jez> i wanna get drunk but there's this horrible project work i have to progress with by tomorrow
18:55:35  <jez> what a crap dilemma
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19:02:10  * Eddi|zuHause2 fails to see the problem
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20:01:09  <KUDr> all: customizable faces are ready to commit. Any objections against commiting it? ( )
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20:04:34  <KUDr> peter1138, glx, orudge, MiHaMiX, Darkvater, Celestar, Belugas_Gone: customizable faces are ready to commit. Any objections against commiting it? ( )
20:07:06  <peter1138> yeah
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20:09:42  <peter1138> the snprintf / buffer thing
20:09:52  <peter1138> should be a SetDParam and a string with {NUM} in it
20:10:07  <KUDr> ahh
20:10:21  <peter1138> we also have DrawStringCentered
20:10:38  <peter1138> or DrawStringCenteredTruncated
20:10:43  <peter1138> (or something similar)
20:11:05  <KUDr> thanks
20:11:30  <Tron> Randomi_s_e in BE
20:11:45  <peter1138> coding style at case PFW_WIDGET_LOAD: /* Load click */
20:12:17  <KUDr> ok
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20:12:38  <KUDr> Tron: "Randomi_s_e" you mean the text on button?
20:13:30  <peter1138> all those accessors should return a FaceCode, not use a FaceCode pointer
20:13:50  <ln-> KUDr: customizable faces? ... do they have one or two earrings?
20:14:00  <KUDr> 3
20:14:13  <peter1138> three ears? :)
20:14:16  <KUDr> on one ear
20:14:27  <KUDr> left one
20:15:01  <peter1138> _player_face should probably be a FaceCOde
20:15:11  <peter1138> what is "qdID"?
20:15:39  <KUDr> some dialog id
20:15:44  <glx> if-then-else style in WE_ON_EDIT_TEXT
20:16:15  <KUDr> glx: thanx
20:16:40  <Tron> + if (i >= 0) i %= modulo;
20:16:41  <Tron> + else {
20:17:00  <KUDr> ok
20:18:03  <Tron> +         if (_player_face == 0) {ShowErrorMessage(INVALID_STRING_ID, STR_FACE_LOAD_NOFAVE, 0, 0);}
20:18:04  <Tron> +         else {
20:19:02  <Tron> what does the mumbo jumbo in WrapInt() mean?
20:19:25  <KUDr> i don'r see any mumbo jumbo
20:19:33  <jez> haha
20:19:36  <jez> mumbo jumbo
20:19:41  <Tron> most of the function
20:19:47  <jez> Tron: can i ask you something (no offence intended)
20:19:50  <jez> how well do you know C?
20:19:56  <KUDr> /** Integer wrapping helper function. Used by FaceCode high level accessors
20:19:56  <KUDr> *   to wrap integer values into the range 0..<modulo-1>. */
20:20:22  <Tron> can the parameters ever be negative?
20:20:29  <KUDr> it should wrap any int into the given range
20:20:48  <KUDr> modulo not
20:20:59  <KUDr> or shouldn't
20:21:05  <KUDr> i can be
20:21:45  <KUDr> modulo is lways numer of <any attribute type>
20:22:05  <KUDr> +a +b
20:22:49  <Tron> k
20:22:54  <Tron> given i is < 0
20:23:28  <Tron> then -i is > 0 (except for the most negative number on two complement machines, but this edge case can be ruled out)
20:24:01  <Tron> -i % modulo is always >= 0
20:24:12  <Tron> -(-i % modulo) <= 0
20:24:38  <KUDr> yes
20:24:39  <Tron> yikes
20:24:45  <KUDr> except for i == 0
20:25:09  <KUDr> so:
20:25:09  <KUDr> if (i < 0) i += modulo;
20:25:30  <KUDr> to fix it to positive
20:25:41  <Tron> something tells me i don't like it
20:25:48  <KUDr> me too
20:25:53  <jez> <@peter1138> what is "qdID"?
20:25:57  <jez> ^ query dialog ID
20:25:58  <KUDr> can you invent better way?
20:26:30  <jez> Tron: We English, in England, say Randomize
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20:26:33  <glx> value % modulo should be enough
20:26:35  <jez> why should it be Randomise
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20:26:41  <jez> that looks wrong to me
20:27:48  <KUDr> Brianetta wanter Randomise in TGP dialog
20:27:57  <KUDr> so it it should stay consistent
20:28:06  <KUDr> r->d
20:28:10  <jez> i'd respectfully disagree with his interpretation of the British English language
20:28:16  <jez> :_S
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20:28:35  <KUDr> i can't tell as i am czech
20:28:46  <jez> i can, as i'm a well-educated Englishman
20:29:02  <KUDr> in dictionary i have randomize
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20:29:29  <KUDr> so i really dunno
20:29:52  <jez> believe me, 'ize' is commonly used in England and looks better
20:30:56  <chu_> yeha - i can generate a list of old vehicles
20:31:00  <Tron> emphasize?
20:31:03  <Tron> optimize?
20:31:11  <jez> ?
20:31:27  <jez> i would use both those spellings
20:31:31  <peter1138> burglarized!
20:31:35  <jez> hah
20:31:42  <jez> now that's an amzericanism
20:31:43  <Tron> quantize?
20:31:44  <jez> :-)
20:34:28  <peter1138> anyway, i know Darkvater is against having a face customiser
20:34:33  <jez> argh
20:34:35  <peter1138> or is that customizer
20:34:36  <jez> you see KUDr
20:34:43  <jez> i told you about this
20:34:45  <peter1138> also
20:35:05  <peter1138> never mind that the code is different
20:35:23  <peter1138> but previous... attitudes haven't helped
20:35:51  <jez> peter1138: we've worked hard and you're still being anal because i had trouble accepting the coding guidelines?>
20:35:53  <jez> geez
20:35:55  <jez> get oiver it.
20:35:56  <jez> *over
20:36:04  <KUDr> the previous drawing routine was really messy
20:36:11  <Tron> KUDr: given the range of the inputs: return (i + modulo) % modulo;
20:36:39  <ln-> can't you do something more useful than a face customiser?
20:36:54  <jez> ohh this is good
20:36:54  <jez> haha
20:37:10  <KUDr> Tron: looks good if i >= -modulo (which now is so)
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20:37:11  <jez> im not even gonna answer that
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20:37:51  <KUDr> ln-: i can but first i would like to finish it
20:38:01  <KUDr> did you see the original code?
20:38:16  <jez> i would suggest
20:38:21  <jez> in english.txt
20:38:22  <jez> STR_RANDOM                                                      :{BLACK}Randomise
20:38:23  <jez> ->
20:38:23  <KUDr> now the patch looks totally different inside
20:38:24  <jez> STR_RANDOM                                                      :{BLACK}Randomize
20:38:37  <jez> ise is ugly and not many people use it
20:39:54  <ln-> Tron: when will we see all three climates on one single map?
20:40:15  *** Spoco [] has quit []
20:42:32  <Tron> every 32bit number is a valid face number?
20:42:34  <XeryusTC> (i + modulo) % modulo <- isn't that basicly the same as (i % modulo)+1
20:42:47  <Tron> no
20:43:03  <XeryusTC> wait, +0 even :P
20:43:07  <Tron> if at all it would be the same as i % modulo
20:43:26  <XeryusTC> yes, see my correction ^ :P
20:43:51  <Tron> see the time stamps
20:44:26  <XeryusTC> you were 4 seconds later than me on my machine
20:44:32  <KUDr> Tron: any number can currently come as i
20:44:40  <Tron> %cat t2.c
20:44:40  <Tron> main() { printf("%d\n", -1 % 2); }
20:44:40  <Tron> %make t2
20:44:40  <Tron> cc -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=athlon-xp  t2.c  -o t2
20:44:40  <Tron> %./t2
20:44:43  <Tron> -1
20:44:48  <KUDr> but not all FaceCodes are valid
20:45:33  <XeryusTC> anyway, im afk again
20:46:19  <Tron> is it guaranteed that none of the arrays is accesed oob?
20:46:37  <KUDr> yes
20:46:40  <Tron> fore example FaceGetNose() extracts 3 bits
20:46:49  <Tron> but white_female_nose_sprites[] just has 3 entries
20:46:54  <KUDr> there is called the clamping before it
20:47:20  <peter1138> 3 bits for 3 entries?
20:47:21  <peter1138> hmm
20:47:34  <jez> heh
20:47:36  <Tron> +     int nose = FaceGetNose(face);
20:47:36  <KUDr> 	/* Validate other face attributes if they are out of range */
20:47:37  <Tron> +     SpriteID nose_sprite = (gender_ethnicity != FC_CF) ? (first_nose_sprites[gender_ethnicity] + nose) : white_female_nose_sprites[nose];
20:47:37  <KUDr> 	FaceChangeGenderEthnicity(&face, 0);
20:47:42  <peter1138> oh, more entries for different gender & colou
20:47:44  <peter1138> +r
20:48:31  <KUDr> FaceChangeGenderEthnicity(&face, 0) clamps them into range
20:49:12  <Tron> k
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20:49:50  <KUDr> <peter1138> 3 bits for 3 entries? << 3 values are there in case of white woman
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20:50:31  <jez> he noticed
20:50:49  <KUDr> i see
20:51:04  <XeryusTC> <jez> ise is ugly and not many people use it <- ise is british english IIRC, ize is american, which also happens to have its own language file...
20:51:22  <jez> disagree.  ize is used extensively in the UK
20:51:24  <KUDr> so except the WrapInt() we can do all suggested changes
20:51:33  <Tron> + snprintf(buffer, 512, "%u", value);
20:51:35  <jez> no matter what the dictionary says :-)
20:51:36  <Tron> _NEVER_ do that
20:51:47  <Tron> never hardcode the buffer length this way
20:51:58  <Tron> it totally makes the use of snprintf() moot
20:52:04  <KUDr> where it was?
20:52:14  <KUDr> must be from jez and i overlooked it
20:52:26  <jez> lol
20:52:58  <KUDr> huh i see it
20:52:59  <jez> Tron: of course it doesnt
20:53:06  <jez> only if some idiot comes and changes the length of buffer
20:53:21  <XeryusTC> jez: ize is not official british english, so those english people are just being stupid
20:53:22  <KUDr> jez - it is really bad style
20:53:39  <Tron> it's not only bad style, it's bogus
20:53:45  <jez> XeryusTC: there is no 'official' british english.  we are not french, we do not have an institute to dictate how we spell
20:53:46  <KUDr> if you want do do code that will never be maintained, then you can do so
20:53:51  <jez> ize is FREQUENTLY used in british english
20:53:55  <jez> my dad uses it and he's a lawyer
20:53:56  <KUDr> but ottd must be maintanable
20:53:58  <Tron> +static void DrawFaceStringLabel(Window *w, uint32 widgno, StringID attribute, uint32 value) {
20:54:16  <peter1138> argh
20:54:29  <peter1138> just made a loaf of bread for tomorrow
20:54:30  <jez> randomize, emphasize, optimize, quantize
20:54:37  <peter1138> it is *so* tempting to eat it now
20:54:38  <jez> i would definitely spell all those words that way
20:54:44  <jez> and i am mother-tongue British
20:54:45  <KUDr> ohh repaired
20:54:49  <KUDr> thanks
20:54:52  <XeryusTC> jez: lawyers are stupid (no offence meant)
20:55:03  <XeryusTC> jez: it doesnt matter if it is your mother tongue
20:55:07  <jez> he is pretty damn good at spelling and grammer
20:55:08  <jez> *grammar
20:55:10  <XeryusTC> look at ben_robbins
20:55:34  <jez> and im sorry but there is no such thing as 'official' EN-GB
20:55:41  <jez> it's changing all the time
20:55:47  <hylje> OH, REALLY?
20:55:49  <Born_Acorn> Well my dad is made from spare ribs and flies around all day and he says "ize" is for Americans!
20:55:50  <hylje> ARE YOU SERIOUS?
20:55:56  <chu_> hehe - now i can send only old vehicles to the depots :-)
20:56:07  <jez> apparently, French was
20:56:21  <XeryusTC> jez: if it wasn't changing all the time it would belong in the same row as latin and greek...
20:56:30  <jez> quite
20:56:37  <jez> ise is an old-fashioned spelling
20:56:44  <jez> ize has adopted very widespread usage
20:56:52  <jez> no way does 'randomise' look right to me
20:57:09  <XeryusTC> ize is american, and everyone adopts americans because they are butt kissing b*stards
20:57:18  <Born_Acorn> XeryusTC is right
20:57:21  <jez> true.  we have tended to adopt the US spelling
20:57:22  <XeryusTC> and americans also tend to dominate the internets
20:58:09  <Tron> it's "teh intarwebz"
20:58:13  <Tron> and it's made of tubes!
20:58:20  <jez> a series of tubes
20:58:25  <jez> they're in series
20:58:30  <hylje> no, parallel
20:58:55  <Born_Acorn> jez, which area do you live?
20:59:01  <jez> i've moved about
20:59:11  <jez> started in Buckinghamshire, went to London, now Middlesbrough
20:59:15  <hylje> the road is not made to be running about!
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20:59:18  <Born_Acorn> Just that I've never seen anyone use "ize" before.
20:59:25  <jez> well i have
20:59:26  <XeryusTC> btw: <Born_Acorn> XeryusTC is right <- Born_Acorn is always right, for he has an total annihilation avatar! (IIRC)
20:59:27  <Born_Acorn> Unless they are non-GB
20:59:32  <jez> randomize, emphasize, optimize, quantize
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20:59:37  <jez> you would spell all them 'ise'?
20:59:40  <Born_Acorn> Yes.
20:59:42  <jez> i would naturally spell them 'ize'
20:59:45  <jez> *shrug*
20:59:49  <DarkSSH> KUDr: you know how I feel about customizable faces
21:00:01  <XeryusTC> optimize looks worse than optimise imho
21:00:08  <jez> not imo
21:00:19  <KUDr> DarkSSH: i share your feeling
21:00:34  <hylje> pic somewhat related
21:00:40  <jez> oh god here it goes
21:01:02  <KUDr> but still i think we can accept the presence of it as the price for new and much better drawing routine
21:01:20  <DarkSSH> he?
21:01:35  <KUDr> did you see the new patch?
21:01:38  <DarkSSH> that can be done without the customization if really needed
21:01:42  <KUDr> it is totally different one
21:02:22  <KUDr> DarkSSH: not so easy - with the original bit layout in the uint32 face code
21:02:52  <peter1138> why has it changed?
21:03:07  <KUDr> it was complicated and messy
21:03:12  <peter1138> and if it has changed, what about my old games?
21:03:17  <jez> hahaha
21:03:21  <jez> suddenly you care about faces
21:03:23  <KUDr> lot of math needed to descramble it
21:06:40  <DarkSSH> definitely not before 0.5
21:07:43  <KUDr> hmm
21:07:43  <jez> oh, that's funny
21:07:55  <jez> bjarni's crappy stuff for depots gets in
21:07:59  <KUDr> so it will not be in 0.5
21:08:02  <jez> nobody raises an eyebrow
21:08:14  <jez> he didnt even consult anyone
21:08:58  <KUDr> jez: there is one difference: custom faces are 'bit' useless
21:09:00  <Born_Acorn> I've heard this bit before!
21:09:01  <ln-> is it the "insult Bjarni day" again?
21:09:42  <jez> why not?
21:09:46  <KUDr> hopefully not because then i will be responsible for it
21:09:50  <jez> he puts a load of crap in that people dont like and it's still there
21:09:52  <jez> not reverted
21:09:57  <jez> vater does nothing but whinge
21:10:12  * Born_Acorn forsees something
21:10:47  <DarkSSH> jez: ok, got anything else?
21:11:03  <jez> regarding?
21:12:13  <DarkSSH> bitching
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21:12:19  <DarkSSH> I've already told you about bjarni
21:12:32  <jez> he has special powers?
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21:15:03  <Born_Acorn> I can't see him, so he must be invisible!
21:15:06  <Born_Acorn> wow!
21:15:36  <KUDr> 'stealth' power
21:15:53  <KUDr> or is it called 'cloaking'
21:16:59  <XeryusTC> DarkSSH!
21:17:16  <XeryusTC> not that it is quite an old patch ;)
21:17:48  <XeryusTC> not=note
21:19:43  <goombnny> I'm Boomingranny from the forums
21:19:45  <goombnny> hello
21:19:50  <peter1138> XeryusTC: isn't that a bit out of date?
21:19:59  <XeryusTC> <XeryusTC> not that it is quite an old patch ;)
21:20:13  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: so what is it for?
21:20:24  <XeryusTC> DarkSSH: the little team chat problem ;)
21:20:34  <goombnny> jez: are you here?
21:20:39  <DarkSSH> please, be more verbose, I am tired
21:20:56  <jez> goombnny: lol
21:21:03  <jez> goombnny: you've never been in here before
21:21:04  <XeryusTC> openttd changing to team chat automaticly when you're with 2 or more people in a company
21:21:22  <XeryusTC> although the patch was meant to make team talking easier
21:22:00  <jez> goombnny: late in New Zealand?
21:22:09  <Zavior> A shift + enter talk to all and enter to talk to the team would be nice
21:22:12  <Zavior> Like in wc3w
21:22:24  <XeryusTC> Zavior: it's like that now
21:22:28  <goombnny> 10am mate
21:22:32  <Zavior> Oh, right :D
21:22:41  <XeryusTC> but i would like an option to let ottd remember that i want to talk to all
21:22:50  <jez> goombnny: heh, it's half 9 here
21:22:50  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: ok so what does it do?
21:22:51  <jez> pm
21:22:59  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: eg WC3 style with chat-window?
21:23:04  <XeryusTC> no
21:23:43  <XeryusTC> it has an patch option which allows you to talk to switch team/all chat automaticly
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21:25:06  <goombnny> jez: just looking at your patch, version 10.  cool :-)
21:25:46  <XeryusTC> guess what! explorer just crashed!
21:25:58  <Born_Acorn> :O
21:26:25  <hylje> maybe a patch option to toggle chat default behaviour
21:26:31  <hylje> 1. always to all
21:26:45  <hylje> 2. team if applicable
21:26:59  <hylje> then a separate toggle to override that ingame
21:27:18  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: hmm I don't like the patch
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21:27:47  <DarkSSH> only ENTER should be changed, CTRL+enter and SHIFT+enter need to always be all/team respectively
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21:28:08  <goombnny> jez: when is it going in?|
21:28:13  <jez> goombnny: not sure
21:28:24  <hylje> yes, ^enter and ENTER should be overrides
21:28:29  <hylje> and not affected by anything
21:28:29  <ln-> what about RETURN?
21:28:41  <XeryusTC> DarkSSH: i thought you devs never applied a patch clean as it was delivered, you guys always make changes
21:29:02  <jez> XeryusTC: they never apply a patch for anyone who hasnt sucked them off yet
21:29:07  <jez> sorry
21:29:20  <XeryusTC> heh, im used to that
21:29:57  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: it depends :). But I want your rationale behind changing shift+enter
21:30:00  <DarkSSH> hmm wait
21:30:10  <jez> nooo, you want your dicky sucked
21:30:11  <DarkSSH> this patch predates my changes, right?
21:30:12  <DarkSSH> hehe
21:30:17  *** jez was kicked from #openttd by DarkSSH [ok, fuck off]
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21:30:24  <Zavior> fail'd
21:30:29  <XeryusTC> DarkSSH: yes
21:30:30  <DarkSSH> fucking retard
21:30:36  *** jez was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [i slipped]
21:30:36  <goombnny> ooh, bit harsh there dark
21:30:43  <XeryusTC> it's r61xx
21:31:10  <goombnny> i thought his patch was good
21:31:11  <XeryusTC> or r6176 to be precise
21:31:14  <peter1138> the chat stuff got revamped later than that
21:31:28  <goombnny> he expanded on mine
21:31:39  <DarkSSH> yeah cause I see shift+enter there added...hehe
21:31:42  <XeryusTC> <XeryusTC> note that it is quite an old patch ;) <- look back
21:32:11  <peter1138> XeryusTC: yes, but it's so old we can only guess at what the intended changes are
21:32:15  <peter1138> against trunk, that is
21:32:45  <XeryusTC> peter1138: i don't quite understand that, could you replace?
21:33:08  <DarkSSH> hmm, how do I unban?
21:33:54  <peter1138> i don't think you can ;)
21:34:02  <hylje> /unban 1
21:34:07  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*tumbler@*] by DarkSSH
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21:34:10  <DarkSSH> ah nice
21:34:21  <peter1138> quick join there
21:34:29  <hylje> autorejoin for the tie
21:34:42  <peter1138> XeryusTC: the change conflicts massively
21:34:48  <DarkSSH> is there a command for listing the banlist?
21:35:06  <peter1138> usually "/bans"
21:35:08  <DarkSSH> peter1138: doesn't matter, I can add YAPO myself as well
21:35:09  <XeryusTC> /banlist?
21:35:12  <peter1138> technically it's /mode #foo +b
21:35:17  <ln-> /ban
21:35:19  <DarkSSH> yeah /bans
21:35:29  <DarkSSH>  /ban is also good
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21:35:54  <peter1138> XeryusTC: check misc_gui.c:2349 and you'll see what i mean
21:35:57  <peter1138> err
21:35:58  <peter1138> main_gui.c
21:36:02  <ln-> jez: did you ever hear that "a kick is not an invite"?
21:37:19  <DarkSSH> XeryusTC: I have the chat thing on the todo list for 0.5
21:37:24  <XeryusTC> <XeryusTC> note that it is quite an old patch ;) <- look back <- look at and its history and you'll know what i mean
21:37:44  <DarkSSH> I just can't decide if it should be a YAPO, or a window ala WC3 style with chatlog
21:38:08  <XeryusTC> the console works well enough as a chatlog for me :)
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21:38:15  <goombnny> darkssh: why for 0.5?
21:38:38  <peter1138> cos that's the next release...
21:38:46  <DarkSSH> cause I can imagine that enter changing can be annoying
21:38:54  <DarkSSH> and what peter1138 said if that was your question
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21:39:15  <goombnny> enter changing?
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21:51:14  <CIA-1> ow
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21:55:03  <MeusH> hello
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22:00:36  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7070 /trunk/ai/ (default/default.c trolly/build.c): -Codechange: Make the AI choose road vehicles based on a rating (currently max speed * capacity) instead of either the cost or the index of the vheicle.
22:01:15  <peter1138> better late than never
22:01:48  <DarkSSH> :)
22:02:06  *** Szandor [] has joined #openttd
22:02:23  <CIA-1> glx * r7071 /branches/MiniIN/ (25 files in 6 dirs): [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7032:r7070
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22:03:56  <jez> DarkSSH: what's the problem with custom faces anyway
22:03:59  <jez> the code works fine
22:04:11  <jez> several ppl on forums want it
22:04:24  <jez> no one but you has a problem with it
22:05:28  <ln-> jez: it doesn't work that way.
22:05:36  *** jttj [g0z78ugdmi@] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
22:05:57  <jez> then what bloody way does it work?
22:06:03  <jez> it doesnt work as far as i can tell
22:06:51  <ln-> by "it" i mean the process of getting one's patch accepted.
22:07:12  <jez> my question stands
22:08:18  <ln-> as a general rule, patches do not get accepted. so forget it. with some luck, some might occasionally be accepted anyway.
22:08:22  *** silent [~pwr@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:53  <jez> ok
22:09:00  *** silent [~pwr@] has joined #openttd
22:09:00  <jez> so maybe you should post a sticky in the forum
22:09:09  <jez> "anytime you see someone suggest you write a patch, forget it
22:09:13  <jez> "it wont get accepted"
22:09:16  <jez> or the like
22:09:28  <Sacro> right /me has caught up
22:09:45  <peter1138> dumb de dumb
22:10:01  <jez> "i know we say it's open, but that means you can go play it on your own with customizations, we're selfish pricks who have a control complex and won't even accept a good patch you've worked hard on"
22:10:05  <jez> that would be pretty appropriate
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22:11:07  <MeusH> ln- You're right about that unwritten rule which says that patches to not get accepted
22:11:09  <MeusH> but why?
22:13:05  * peter1138 reverts MeusH's measurement patch ;p
22:13:16  <MeusH> XD
22:13:22  <MeusH> well
22:13:23  <MeusH> kinda
22:13:28  <MeusH> :S
22:13:56  <MeusH> come on ln- speak :p
22:15:14  <blathijs> "ou're right about that unwritten rule which says that patches to not get accepted" <-- Parse error
22:15:26  *** Turski [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:15:41  <Sacro> blathijs: :o you killed Turksi's terminal
22:15:53  <blathijs> w00ps
22:16:12  <Sacro> blathijs: why do i feel that w00ps should have a smile underneath
22:17:02  <ln-> MeusH: i don't know why, but at least i'm not making the decisions.
22:17:30  * peter1138 ponders reverting all mart3p's patches too
22:17:32  <ln-> jez: it's open source, you can make a fork and apply any patches you want to.
22:17:46  <blathijs> Sacro: There is a smile, just look closely ;-p
22:18:02  <Sacro> blathijs: it looks like some kind of alien...
22:18:10  <jez> ln-: i dont see how that goes against my suggested sticky post
22:18:19  <jez> "i know we say it's open, but that means you can go play it on your own with customizations, we're selfish pricks who have a control complex and won't even accept a good patch you've worked hard on"
22:18:33  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
22:18:41  *** mode/#openttd [+o Tron] by ChanServ
22:18:42  <blathijs> Problem is that "good patch" is very dependent on point of view
22:18:46  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*] by Tron
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22:19:07  <blathijs> Also, determining that patch is actually "good" takes time...
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22:19:36  <Sacro> blathijs: the problem is, is theres no specific process for actually getting a patch included
22:19:46  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7072 /trunk/ai/trolly/build.c: -Fix (r7070): Go up, not down, through the engines. And replace the comment too...
22:20:23  <blathijs> Sacro: Which is a problem from a user pov, but works pretty good from a developer perspective :-)
22:20:38  <Sacro> blathijs: but the users are rebelling
22:21:03  <goombnny> your opensource development model sucks
22:21:13  <blathijs> Part of the problem is also that actually applying a patch is less work, but also less fun than coding something new
22:21:38  <blathijs> especially if the area of the patch does not interest the developer in question at all
22:21:51  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*] by Tron
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22:21:53  <Sacro> blathijs: but people spend a lot of time coding new things, and they either a) get ignored, or b) hacked, and rewritten, and then included weeks later
22:21:55  <Tron> who wants to be next?
22:22:11  <Tron> thought so
22:22:27  <blathijs> Tron: That's a little rash, though the word "sucks" wasn't really in order, I admit :-)
22:22:31  <Tron> Sacro: what exactly is the problem with b?
22:22:38  <Sacro> Tron: not me, but sometimes you need a devils advocate to point things out
22:23:10  <Tron> that's not an answer to my question, isn't it?
22:23:23  <Sacro> Tron: i know... im thinking of a suitable reply
22:23:26  <peter1138> problem with b is some people don't like it, they get arsey. when they get arsey, there is no way i will accept that patch
22:23:36  <Sacro> peter1138: exactly
22:23:36  <blathijs> :-)
22:24:03  <peter1138> people who feel it is their god-given right to have their patch included
22:24:22  <Sacro> there is MiniIN, but that doesnt seem to be supported by anyone but RichK, however it is nice that other people recently have been syncing it to trunk
22:24:32  <peter1138> and make snide remarks and digs at the devs
22:24:33  <Tron> peter1138: pah, then they should make IceWeaselTTD
22:24:47  <peter1138> iceweasel?
22:24:48  <peter1138> ohhh
22:24:49  <peter1138> yes
22:25:21  <peter1138> Sacro: i see more then just richk helping out with it (and not just syncing)
22:25:39  <Sacro> peter1138: its true, it has got better recently, it could do with its own forum really
22:26:06  <peter1138> yes, to save all those "use the miniin problem thread" replies...
22:26:16  <Sacro> yes, i think thats a bit harsh
22:26:27  <Sacro> i can see the whole idea, but shoving it all into one topic is getting really messy
22:26:41  <peter1138> um
22:26:53  <peter1138> is it bad to eat a whole pack of tictacs in one sitting?
22:27:25  <Sacro> peter1138: err... you'll have nice breath for a week
22:27:45  <peter1138> for the night, anyway
22:27:49  <peter1138> hmm, not such a bad ide.a..
22:29:05  <Sacro> im hungry :(
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22:32:58  <Sacro> its all gone quiet in here :(
22:33:17  <lws|Away> Yarrr!
22:33:25  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
22:33:42  <MeusH> welcome back monster :)
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22:34:08  <Sacro> lws1984: Yarr
22:34:22  * Sacro goes to harrass the oven
22:34:23  <Sacro> mmm fire
22:34:34  <MeusH> Sacro:
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22:41:54  <ln-> is anyone interested in introducing new cargo types?
22:42:41  <peter1138> yes
22:42:43  <MeusH> yes
22:42:45  <peter1138> so i did it
22:43:10  <peter1138> well, with belugas as well
22:43:28  <DarkSSH> nah, unneeded
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22:43:53  <peter1138> DarkSSH: what if i put a gui on it?
22:44:23  <ln-> DarkSSH: are you interested in removing some of the existing cargo types? :)
22:44:29  <peter1138> ln-: MeusH:
22:44:51  <DarkSSH> I don't want any newcargoes
22:44:53  <DarkSSH> p
22:44:53  <DarkSSH> e
22:44:53  <DarkSSH> r
22:44:56  <DarkSSH> i
22:44:58  <DarkSSH> o
22:45:01  <DarkSSH> d
22:45:03  <Sacro> . ?
22:45:25  <ln-> ok, nice.
22:45:26  <DarkSSH> :O
22:45:35  * Sacro prepares the move over to ttdpatch :(
22:45:46  <DarkSSH> peter1138: this gave me an we know the correct vehicle-sprite length when we draw?
22:45:50  <KUDr> DarkSSH: would be better if you make extra branch called "NoNewFeatures" for yourself :)
22:45:56  <peter1138> yeah
22:46:02  <DarkSSH> it would be good to offset that so it doesn't stick out the windows :)
22:46:08  <peter1138> heh
22:46:11  <DarkSSH> especially the details one
22:46:14  <KUDr> you make me really unhappy
22:46:15  <DarkSSH> KUDr: nonewfeatures = on
22:46:17  <DarkSSH> I like that :)
22:46:24  <DarkSSH> KUDr: I was sarcastic
22:46:29  <Sacro> can we rig svn, so that whenever DarkSSH does a checkout, it just gives him r1
22:46:31  <KUDr> so make extra branch for you
22:46:47  <KUDr> and don't try to stop evolution
22:46:51  <KUDr> it is crazy
22:47:01  <DarkSSH> KUDr: read up ^
22:47:08  <KUDr> yes i read
22:47:13  <peter1138> good news is belugas has (or should've) been working on industries this weekend
22:47:14  <KUDr> but don't belive
22:47:19  <DarkSSH> ask peter1138
22:50:37  <peter1138> oh for fucks sake
22:50:46  <ln-> DarkSSH: what do you think about the idea of introducing the concept of countries? you know, we already even have "international" airports.
22:50:59  <Sacro> ln-: +1 vote :p
22:51:51  <ln-> but surely trains and ferries should be capable for international traffic too.
22:52:15  <DarkSSH> am I the boogieman now or what?
22:52:17  <Sacro> ln-: would we be able to have multiple newgrfs at once... eg UKRS+NARS+DBSETXL
22:52:19  <MeusH> ln- with regional influence of local authorities?
22:52:25  <DarkSSH> ln-: sure, go ahead, implement it
22:52:31  <DarkSSH> that should keep you quiet for a while ^^
22:52:37  * peter1138 denies having worked on Sacro's request
22:52:50  <Sacro> peter1138: i know you have
22:52:54  <peter1138> although the bug was quite amusing
22:53:03  <peter1138> well, not bug, just "not finishedness"
22:53:07  <ln-> DarkSSH: i was asking your opinion. :)
22:53:10  <Sacro> peter1138: and it'd be a lot more convincing if you didnt point out your lack of trying :p
22:53:10  <peter1138> having multiple copies of the original vehicles...
22:53:26  <ln-> one developer has already said it's "an interesting idea".
22:53:28  <Sacro> i still like putting UKRS in
22:53:39  <peter1138> Sacro: how nasty is it?
22:53:53  <DarkSSH> when I say "interesting idea" it actually means....ok, I don't wanna offend you, but it sucks
22:53:54  <peter1138> i can't remember what supported...
22:54:07  <Sacro> peter1138: its great, you can have trains without engines
22:54:13  <ln-> DarkSSH: it wasn't you who said "interesting idea".
22:54:14  <peter1138> um
22:54:17  <peter1138> oh kay
22:54:22  <Sacro> most of the wagons are powered
22:54:25  <DarkSSH> ln-: we have to see what kind of game ottd wants to be. imho countries would push it the sim-city way
22:54:35  <DarkSSH> and less transportation, more politics, etc.
22:54:41  <Sacro> DarkSSH: well i'd like it a bit more simutrans'y
22:54:51  <peter1138> cargo destinations!
22:54:58  <peter1138> stupid rail junctions!
22:55:00  <ln-> DarkSSH: hmm, hmm, in a way yes.
22:55:03  <peter1138> that annoying build sound!
22:55:05  <Sacro> ./ "Melting Arctic Ice Has Consequences" <- well DUH
22:55:29  <Sacro> err... s/\.\//\/\./
22:55:46  <DarkSSH> ln-: that is why I'm not sure if that would be a way to go
22:56:11  <Sacro> DarkSSH: but it'd make for a lot more interesting and complex multiplayer
22:56:47  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7073 /trunk/ai/ (default/default.c trolly/build.c): -Feature: Add cargo refit support to both AIs for road vehicles
22:58:11  <ln-> DarkSSH: but it wouldn't need to be more complicated than connecting to the foreign company's railway network at the border, at least i'm not suggesting having politics, wars and stuff involved.
22:58:34  <Tron> !seen alltaken
22:58:38  <_42_> Tron, Alltaken ( was last seen quitting #openttd 2 days 12 hours 20 minutes ago (03.11. 10:38) stating "Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]" after spending 3 hours 25 minutes there.
22:58:47  <peter1138> nini
22:59:00  <DarkSSH> ln-: so what use would that be then?
22:59:06  <DarkSSH> you could only build in your country?
22:59:12  <DarkSSH> each player controls a single countrY?
22:59:46  <Born_Acorn> I must lol at jez thinking most people in the UK use "ize" over "ise".
22:59:48  <Sacro> night peter1138
22:59:49  <Born_Acorn> It must just be the people he knows who do it. :p
23:00:16  <Sacro> hmm, i prefer ise
23:00:19  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7074 /trunk/ai/trolly/build.c: -Fix (r7073): stupid debugs
23:00:24  <DarkSSH> gogo peter1138
23:00:25  <Zevensoft> he doesnt realise the truth
23:00:33  <Zevensoft> eh eh
23:01:17  <Born_Acorn> They call it "British (or Commonwealth) English" for a reason.
23:01:34  <Born_Acorn> Not because it's exactly the same as US English either. :p
23:01:38  <Zevensoft> nah its brittish english afaik
23:01:44  <Zevensoft> theres also australian english
23:02:01  <Born_Acorn> I think that comes under Commonwealth. :p
23:02:05  <Zevensoft> which is more like brittish english than us english
23:02:06  <Zevensoft> nope
23:02:34  <Sacro> Zevensoft: british
23:02:36  <Zevensoft> eg. we use trucks instead of lorry
23:02:41  <ln-> DarkSSH: each player controlling one's own country would make sense, too, but even with current rules, having the other countries would allow new, profitable routes across the edge of the map.
23:02:54  <Sacro> ooh, supply and demand to other countries
23:03:34  <Born_Acorn> (22:53:18) <DarkSSH> am I the boogieman now or what? <-- Be sure to check under the bed for the Darkvaterman before you sleep!
23:03:44  <DarkSSH> ln-: this would need shared-tracks, more bits, and a rework of economics before it can even be thought about
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23:03:56  * Sacro checks under his bed
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23:04:14  <Zevensoft> dark: what about a multiserve option
23:04:16  <Sacro> hmm... that sock doesnt look too clean
23:04:25  <Zevensoft> all that country data would make 1 server crawl
23:04:35  <Zevensoft> having a different server per country would help
23:04:49  <Zevensoft> keeping sync would be just like having another client
23:06:32  <ln-> DarkSSH: shared tracks would be a good idea in every case.
23:07:45  <DarkSSH> Zevensoft: in openttd the server is only an arbiter, nothing more, nothing less
23:07:54  <DarkSSH> all clients and server do exactly the same amount of work
23:07:57  <Zevensoft> oh
23:08:04  <Zevensoft> so its a p2p thing, like wc3?
23:08:25  <DarkSSH> all that a server does: receive command from client, check and authorize then broadcast
23:08:56  <DarkSSH> it's not p2p
23:09:57  <Born_Acorn> It's 2p2!
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23:19:21  <mikk36> hey :)
23:19:36  <mikk36> erm.. DarkSSH = Darkvater over SSH ? :P
23:19:54  <glx> and the winner is mikk36 :)
23:19:57  <DarkSSH> hmm...
23:20:06  <mikk36> still... why such nick ?
23:20:10  <mikk36> and why over SSH ?
23:20:22  <DarkSSH> why are you mikk36?
23:20:28  <mikk36> and even if over SSH, what is special about it +
23:20:42  <DarkSSH> Darkvater is taken and Darkvater1 sounds stupid
23:20:49  <mikk36> oh :P
23:20:55  <mikk36> right :P
23:21:08  <DarkSSH> well, actually I am Darkvater as well, but on another SSH conn
23:21:15  <DarkSSH> that's my lurk-nick ^^
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23:23:38  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away
23:24:30  <ln-> how about "Darkwater" or "Dorkvater" as the secondary nick...
23:25:17  <DarkSSH> Dorkvater.. hehe "interesting idea"
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23:27:44  <Zevensoft> Darkwader
23:27:52  <ln-> D4rkvater
23:27:56  <Zevensoft> would sound like Darkvader in german
23:37:16  <Born_Acorn> What about "Pigeon Man"
23:37:26  <Born_Acorn> Since it's so zany, it won't be taken!
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23:38:40  <Ailure> hmm
23:38:56  <MeusH> goodnight DarthVater :P
23:39:00  <MeusH> bye guys
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23:44:22  <Ailure> hmmm
23:44:24  <Ailure> Going to start a game
23:44:29  <Ailure> what's the best planeset? ;
23:44:30  <Ailure> ;)
23:44:39  <Ailure> I found two of them, but I dunno which one is more playable
23:45:39  <DarkSSH> av8
23:47:03  <Ailure> funny, I was looking at the site for it
23:47:06  <Ailure> guess I try it out
23:47:45  <DarkSSH> cool sounds (+1), tilted takeoff/landing (+2)
23:48:20  <Ailure> I tried planesetw_459.grf and "planeset" something
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23:49:28  <Ailure> ah yeah
23:49:29  <Ailure> they are
23:49:30  <Ailure> hehe
23:49:47  <Ailure> though haha
23:49:55  <Ailure> the zeppelin makes a helicopter noise in this set too
23:50:32  <Ailure> guess I play a game with that set then
23:52:40  <Ailure> This is going to be intresting
23:52:52  <Ailure> hopwfully not too crashy, since i'm going quite exprimental. XD
23:53:12  <DarkSSH> good luck :)
23:54:43  <Ailure> thanks
23:54:51  <Ailure> now I probably screw with the map generator for a half hour or so
23:54:56  <Ailure> until I get a map I like
23:55:42  <DarkSSH> use the africa scenario :D
23:56:32  <Ailure> oh yeah, I wanted to play on that map
23:56:39  <Ailure> just hadn't got around it

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