Log for #openttd on 18th November 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:01  <Rubidium> and have twice as much time and productivity tomorrow morning?
00:00:19  <peter1138> hmm, possibly
00:00:24  <peter1138> woo, upgrade'd
00:00:26  <peter1138> Card:           nVidia Geforce 4 Ti 4200
00:00:29  <peter1138> GPU clock:      249.750 MHz
00:00:31  <peter1138> Clock:          445.500 MHz
00:00:33  <peter1138> heh
00:00:42  <peter1138> crap these days, no doubt
00:00:55  <peter1138> but a bit better than the gf2mx i was using
00:04:46  <Darkvater> :)
00:07:14  * Born_Acorn obtains a Bightly Nuild
00:07:21  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:09:16  <jez> Ti 4200??  haha
00:09:20  <jez> I have a 6800LE
00:09:27  <jez> bought it for playing Oblivion
00:11:20  <Darkvater> OMG
00:11:26  <Darkvater> you are *THE* man now!
00:11:39  * jez nods
00:13:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> a bightly nuild fr the corn baron? this soo reminds me of "kentucky schreit ficken" :p
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00:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> +o
00:14:48  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7200 /trunk/ (8 files):
00:14:48  <CIA-1> -Codechange: remove unneeded redraw (console.c), coding style, use FindWindowById
00:14:48  <CIA-1>  instead of _windows loop (viewport.c), remove dump-code (mixer.c), MSVC6 borkdness
00:14:48  <CIA-1>  in stdafx.h, constness (viewport.c), variable localization (win32.c), comments (window.c)
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00:24:09  <Sacro> jez: 6800LE hahahha, i have a 7950GT OC
00:27:13  <jez> OC?  overclocked is that
00:27:17  <jez> so it's probably about to melt
00:27:19  <jez> :-)
00:29:31  <peter1138> well
00:29:35  <peter1138> this was found in a draw
00:29:40  <peter1138> so at least i didn't waste money on it
00:29:46  <Sacro> jez: its designed to be
00:29:53  <Sacro> peter1138: drawer?
00:30:17  <peter1138> errrr
00:30:18  <peter1138> yes
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00:34:53  <Darkvater> hmm
00:35:00  <Darkvater> < is this better or worse?
00:35:57  <Darkvater> I like cause it's cleaner and you have a better view of what is going on... but it has gotos and some faint from that
00:36:44  <Darkvater> hmm guys..did we even check that the nightly build has libfreetype2 support?
00:37:56  <Sacro> Darkvater: hehe, how can i check that?
00:38:15  <Darkvater> run nightly :)
00:38:24  <Sacro> err... what rev?
00:38:26  <Darkvater> and see if you can add fonts
00:38:29  <Darkvater> today's
00:38:35  <Sacro> will head work?
00:38:43  <Darkvater> what is so difficult about NIGHTLY?
00:38:45  <Naksu> Darkvater: the reason why people dont like goto is because their friends dont like it
00:38:56  <Sacro> Darkvater: i have to find out what rev :p
00:39:06  <Darkvater> *sigh*
00:39:09  <Darkvater>
00:39:13  <Sacro> yeah, its 7194
00:39:18  <Zevensoft> is newgrf 32bpp?
00:39:21  <peter1138> Sacro: specifically the nightly build. not your own build.
00:39:30  <Darkvater> some people...
00:39:30  <Sacro> peter1138: ooh right :\
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00:39:37  <Darkvater> Zevensoft: no
00:39:41  <Darkvater> peter1138: window-goto?
00:39:57  <peter1138> hmm?
00:40:04  <peter1138> oh
00:40:08  <peter1138> not an irssi command
00:40:09  <Sacro> ill download the linux i686 and see
00:41:08  <Sacro> Darkvater: how to add fonts?
00:41:16  <peter1138> mmm, goto
00:41:23  <Darkvater> hmm windows version doesn't have freetype support
00:41:43  <Darkvater> we need to talk to truelight to crosscompile freetype :)
00:41:49  <Darkvater> he'll be happy I'm sure ;p
00:41:52  <peter1138> probably just needs the configure version upped
00:41:57  <peter1138> then the farm will run configure
00:41:58  <peter1138> or something
00:42:12  <Sacro> i see nothing to do with fonts anywhere :s
00:42:12  <peter1138> or was that something else
00:42:14  <peter1138> who knows
00:42:20  <Darkvater> Sacro: see my reply
00:42:34  <peter1138> *shrug*
00:42:38  <peter1138> not like its critical, heh
00:42:53  <Darkvater> we could also go with using dynamic libraries and start distributing (sdl.dll) zlib.dll, libpng.dll and libfreetype2.dll
00:43:02  <Sacro> Darkvater: im lost
00:43:03  <Darkvater> all crosscompile problems are solved then
00:43:16  <Darkvater> Sacro: doesn't matter, freetype is not working in the nightlies
00:43:22  <Darkvater> peter1138: so, goto or not to goto?
00:43:23  <Darkvater> :)
00:43:26  <Sacro> ldd shows nothing
00:43:46  <peter1138> well it makes more sense
00:44:09  <KUDr> why not if it is better readable?
00:44:11  <Darkvater> that's all I need
00:44:20  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7201 /trunk/window.c: -Codechange: Use goto's to loop _windows when there is a change you need to start over
00:44:33  <Sacro> ARRGH A GOTO
00:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> wasn't there some kind of "continue" to start another iteration of a loop?
00:45:38  <peter1138> no
00:45:41  <peter1138> continue carries on
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00:46:18  <Sacro> peter1138: im pretty sure continue jumps back to the top
00:46:22  <Darkvater> continue jumps to the first statement of the loop
00:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> break goes out of the loop, and continue starts over (with the next index, if applicable)
00:46:29  <Sacro> at least it does in C#
00:46:34  <Darkvater> it doesn't jump 'out of' the loop to restart it
00:48:03  <jez> continue is equivalent to having endloop: before the loop's closing bracket
00:48:06  <jez> then using goto endloop;
00:48:58  <Darkvater> so, goodnight all :)
00:49:10  <peter1138> gotos with variables are fun
00:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you could use a "done := false; repeat innerloop() until done;"
00:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> and use break in inner loop
00:49:35  <peter1138> yes, complicate stuff to avoid a simple goto o_O
00:49:52  <peter1138> just cos some guy in '68 say gotos are bad
00:49:59  <peter1138> *said
00:50:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, sometimes complicating stuff is the way towards an even simpler solution
00:50:20  <KUDr> exactly
00:50:35  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: not in this case
00:50:43  <KUDr> goto is simpler
00:51:36  <jez> peter: continue does not 'carry on'
00:51:38  <jez>
00:51:45  <jez> don't know where you got that idea
00:52:28  <peter1138> huh?
00:52:33  <peter1138> it carries on with the loop
00:52:38  <peter1138> rather than restarting it
00:53:17  <peter1138> "continue" and "carry on" meaning the same thing...
00:53:43  <jez> ah restarting
00:54:02  <jez> well i'd suggest resetting the test variable(s)
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01:08:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmm... where would i go to reduce the mouse sensitivity/movement speed?
01:09:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> yast/sax doesn't seem to offer that option on the mouse settings
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01:11:26  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: xset
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01:17:16  <Naksu> C needs a COMEFROM
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01:53:12  <Nigel> kuDr you are using goto's?
01:53:27  <KUDr> very rarely
01:53:31  <KUDr> why?
01:53:44  * Nigel has a premature heart attack and dies
01:53:56  <KUDr> hehe
01:53:58  <KUDr> why?
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01:54:16  <Nigel> i hate goto's ;)
01:54:18  <KUDr> whats wrong with gotos?
01:54:52  <Nigel> i dunno, they seem to be a waste of time, they are generally unreadable
01:55:03  <KUDr> hehe i don't use them offten as in C++ they have disturbing effect (skipped variable initialization)
01:55:59  <KUDr> if there is one label at the end of func, where you do resource cleanup, it can be very usefull
01:56:03  <KUDr> but it is C
01:56:25  <Brianetta> GOTO has a bad rep
01:56:26  <KUDr> i do C++ mostly and resource cleanup is automatic
01:56:32  <KUDr> so i don't need them
01:56:40  <Brianetta> It's easy to make bad code with GOTO
01:56:46  <Brianetta> but it's not intrinsically bad
01:56:58  <KUDr> exactly
01:57:15  <KUDr> same as C++ - you can real crap with it
01:57:41  <KUDr> (like YAPF)
01:57:54  * KUDr hides
01:59:01  <Nigel> kuDr: anyway, i've been meaning to talk with you... is there much work needed on the new signals?
01:59:15  <KUDr> yeeees
01:59:25  <Sacro> ooh newsignals talk
01:59:33  <KUDr> :)
01:59:48  <Nigel> Sacro, i'm taking your advice ;)
02:00:00  <Sacro> my advice? its 2am, i generally only talk rubbish
02:00:06  <KUDr> Nigel: would you like to help us?
02:00:28  <Nigel> KUDr: as best i can, yeah
02:00:38  <KUDr> what it does mean?
02:00:56  <KUDr> graphics, C++, LUA?
02:01:02  <Nigel> LUA?
02:01:10  <KUDr> yes
02:01:26  <Sacro> i think bobingabout has done a fair few bits of graphics, though i can do some more too
02:01:37  <KUDr> signal's behavior will be probably prototyped in LUA
02:02:04  <KUDr> bobingabout did nothing if he can't give us licence
02:02:15  <Nigel> i'm not interested in Graphics sorry
02:02:25  <Sacro> well i will contact Micheal Blunck and enquire nicely
02:02:31  <KUDr> somebody must do it so, that we can use it
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02:02:57  <KUDr> Nigel: i was only asking
02:03:16  <Nigel> LUA looks intersting, C++ yeah
02:03:24  <KUDr> good
02:03:32  <KUDr> pm...
02:03:38  <KUDr> hi
02:05:17  <Sacro> hmm
02:07:46  <Sacro> anything happening tonight/
02:09:35  <Eddi|zuHause2>  03:00] <Sacro> my advice? its 2am, i generally only talk rubbish <- what has the time to do with that?:p
02:10:31  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: errr... thats a good point
02:10:43  <Sacro> its just less cohernet rubbish around this time
02:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmzz... this wireless keyboard behaves really badly if it is not exactly in horizontal position
02:16:13  <Sacro> night all
02:17:21  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: infrared keybord ?
02:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> not sure
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02:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> it also works if i completely cover it up, so it might not be infrared, what are the alternatives?
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02:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> gnah, i hate forced disconnects :p
02:31:51  <Nigel> eddi|zuHause3 don't we all?
02:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> probably not those lucky people who do not have them :p
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02:37:51  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause3: i got used for disconnects every 24 hours when i was living in germany
02:38:27  <KUDr> but now it is better (back in cz)
02:38:42  <KUDr> 1 mbps n both dirs
02:38:52  <KUDr> paid by company
02:39:15  <KUDr> such comfort was nonsense in de
02:40:12  <Nigel> NZ sucks for any type of connection ;)
02:40:18  <Nigel> even the dialup sucks
02:41:07  <KUDr> we should move to japan
02:41:19  <Nigel> South Korea
02:41:24  <KUDr> my friend there has 100 mbps at home
02:41:39  <Nigel> an exchange outside every house nearly
02:42:29  <Nigel> hmmm, i hope this download finishes by 4
02:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, not south korea, we'd all have to zerg rush keke :p
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07:36:49  <LordOfThePigs> Hi!
07:43:10  <LordOfThePigs> two possibilities
07:43:29  <LordOfThePigs> either my connection is to crappy to read anybody's messages
07:43:40  <LordOfThePigs> or nobody is talking
07:46:39  * LordOfThePigs computes the time in europe
07:47:49  <LordOfThePigs> hmm.... 8:45 on saturday morning CET
07:47:56  <LordOfThePigs> I guess that's why nobody's talking...
07:49:16  <Tron> *yawn* *grunt* *scratch*
07:49:55  <LordOfThePigs> :)
07:50:07  * SpComb is sitting... in class
07:50:47  <LordOfThePigs> Is there any problem with language files in the current revision?
07:52:03  <LordOfThePigs> Hmm? And I can't find the subsidiaries patch on flyspray any more..
07:54:46  <Nigel> LordOfThePigs, boo
07:55:22  <LordOfThePigs> ah!
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07:57:17  <LordOfThePigs> Oh, by the way, does anybody know how I can make it so that a patch setting cannot be changed in the middle of the game
07:58:01  <LordOfThePigs> Because most of the patches in the subsidiaries patch should not be changeable at runtime, or a lot of weird things might happen.
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08:19:15  <SpComb> Logs:
08:19:15  <tormentum> !logs
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08:20:40  <LordOfThePigs> hmm... interesting script :)
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08:27:09  <tormentum> which script is that?
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08:36:14  <Gorre> ..morning.
08:45:04  <peter1138> hi
09:00:13  <Darkvater> *yawn*
09:01:27  <Darkvater>
09:01:31  <Darkvater> haha
09:02:07  <Gorre> Iv just realised that "These lighting setups are outdated", so I will have to rerender all my stuff with new setup ...
09:02:14  <Gorre> One year of vacation anyone?
09:03:34  <Darkvater> :)
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09:04:52  <Darkvater> losers
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09:19:47  <tormentum> sheesh, these people need to discover the wonders and joys of OpenTTD :P
09:22:41  <TheMask96> when will the openttd handheld pc will be released? ;)
09:22:55  <Darkvater> when you donate us a PDA ;)
09:23:28  <Darkvater> oh the pc eh..hehe
09:24:30  <TheMask96> well I was thinking of openttd control keys and stuff ;)
09:25:10  <tormentum> lol
09:25:17  <peter1138> mr vater
09:25:23  <tormentum> i got openttd running on my palm tungsten t5 the other day
09:25:28  <tormentum> oh it felt sooooo good :P
09:26:08  <peter1138> madness
09:26:10  <TheMask96> ghehehe :)
09:26:31  <Patrick_> whatever happened to that guy who ported it to some handhelds?
09:26:42  <Patrick_> you know, the momentary gpl violator
09:26:57  <Patrick_> who directed his users in here for support
09:29:40  <tormentum> what you do mean gpl violator? how did he violate it?
09:30:14  <Naksu> didnt give source for the handheld port
09:31:28  <tormentum> ahh k
09:31:29  <Patrick_> until we constantly bombarded him for about a week
09:31:36  <Patrick_> when it was duly posted
09:31:56  <peter1138> i don't think that version ever got updated
09:32:14  <Patrick_> well, he posted quite a few versions made from the nightlies
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09:32:23  <Patrick_> but I lost interest after a while
09:32:29  <Darkvater> you mena esoftinteractive?
09:32:35  <Patrick_> that's the name!
09:32:55  <Darkvater> he's still at it, but only has a release out (with source) for r45** something
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09:33:04  <Darkvater> there are beta binaries on the forums
09:33:25  <Patrick_> he has a paypal button on the site
09:33:27  <Patrick_> probably for him
09:33:33  <Darkvater> of course :)
09:33:34  <Patrick_> but he makes out that it's for us
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09:36:08  <Patrick_> there must be some whining we can do about that
09:36:15  <Patrick_> he does use a slightly different name though
09:36:32  <Patrick_> (for the game)
09:37:09  <LordOfThePigs> Hey, does anyone know how I can make a patch setting not changeable during the game
09:38:38  <Darkvater> LordOfThePigs: not-possible atm
09:38:52  <Darkvater> LordOfThePigs: or you should use the callback function and reset it in there
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09:39:37  <SpComb> Logs:
09:39:37  <tormentum> !logs
09:40:03  <tormentum> dual core ftw :)
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10:15:31  <Frostregen> [10:39:04] <tormentum> dual core ftw :)
10:15:37  <Frostregen> not really supported atm
10:16:11  <Frostregen> (or maybe i just lack of the right applications ;)
10:19:32  <tormentum> i transcode a lot of video
10:19:38  <tormentum> so it works fantastically for me :)
10:20:10  <Frostregen> my bottleneck is usually my HD
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10:21:44  <Frostregen> i wrote a multithreaded game of life, just to see the 2 cores work =)
10:23:03  <hylje> :)
10:24:02  <tormentum> lol!
10:24:12  <Frostregen> 80% boost there :)
10:24:35  <hylje> multithread ottd plz
10:24:45  <tormentum> ottd aint multi is it?
10:24:49  <hylje> not really
10:24:52  <Frostregen> saving autosaves is
10:25:21  <Frostregen> bit useless atm
10:25:55  <Frostregen> if you have a dualcore, ottd will run anyway on this system
10:26:15  <Frostregen> maybe for old dual cpu systems
10:26:40  <hylje> it will, but will it get more performance
10:26:57  <Frostregen> for what?
10:27:19  <hylje> pathfinder etc
10:29:24  <Frostregen> quake 3 runs at 600fps with r_smp
10:29:30  <Frostregen> but who needs this? ;)
10:29:43  <hylje> the people who use hueg maps
10:29:51  <erikv> maybe you can get some exposure/publicity as 'an "opensource" game thats uses dualcore/dualcpu'
10:30:02  <erikv> i could use it on my dual ppro 200 mhz
10:30:08  <Frostregen> kk :)
10:31:23  <Frostregen> are there some statistics on how many pathfinds/frame there are?
10:33:28  <hylje> not sure. but on large games pathfinder eats cpu for breakfast
10:34:20  <Frostregen> the problem is, how do you divide the task
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10:37:11  <Tron> is somebody with VS > 6 here? Is the scope of variables declared in for loops still wrong?
10:42:30  <Patrick_> Frostregen: quake 3 does threading?
10:43:01  <Patrick_> for some reason, saving autosaves kinda interferes with the normal running, did that go away?
10:43:05  <Patrick_> some sort of priority thing
10:43:13  <Patrick_> anyway, you could do logic and drawing independantly
10:43:23  <hylje> Frostregen: dunno, maybe pool a certain amount of pathfinders per thread
10:43:58  <Frostregen> if you set "r_smp 1" in q3 it uses up to 80% cpu
10:44:01  <Tron> <Patrick_> anyway, you could do logic and drawing independantly <-- hardly
10:44:03  <Frostregen> which is really good
10:45:03  <Patrick_> Tron: hmm, I guess not
10:45:05  <Frostregen> if you separate logic and drawing, you would need a backup of the game logic, which would double the game logic memory usage
10:45:24  <Patrick_> hmm
10:45:30  <Frostregen> but its possible
10:45:33  <Patrick_> hmmok, so what could be threaded.
10:45:41  <Patrick_> pathfinding, AI
10:45:57  <Tron> hardly, hardly
10:46:09  <Frostregen>
10:46:13  <Frostregen> bbl
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10:47:50  <Tron> Patrick_: you guess not what?
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10:52:10  <Frostregen> [11:42:24] <hylje> Frostregen: dunno, maybe pool a certain amount of pathfinders per thread
10:52:24  <Frostregen> each single task has to be large enough
10:52:34  <Frostregen> otherwise it would be even slower
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10:53:15  <hylje> could be hundreds of pathfinders per thread
10:53:31  <Frostregen> thats why i asked "how many pathfinds per frame" ;)
10:53:42  <hylje> that i dunno
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10:59:07  <peter1138> pathfinding is run when needed
10:59:09  <peter1138> not all the time
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11:07:26  <KUDr> peter1138: 	r =  strcasecmp(buf1, _bufcache); // sort by name
11:07:32  <KUDr> is that correct?
11:07:41  <KUDr> now with utf-8?
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11:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> going multithreaded has a pretty huge problem, at the moment, you issue the message "i need a path for train x", you cannot simply wait for the answer, but you need to do something different until you get it
11:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> that either means you need a thread for each vehicle, so you can pause threads while others continue
11:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> or you need a heavily complicated vehicle controller, that can stop processing a vehicle, and continue with the next
11:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> and later return to where it stopped
11:22:52  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause3: there is bigger problem : each pathfinding result can influence input data for the next pathfind, we would need to maintain one queue for one company but shared tracks will break it
11:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, yeah, indeterminism in thread handling is probably a great problem for multiplayer
11:24:46  <KUDr> so we can schedule pathfinds but must serialize them and apply their results to the signal states before we continue
11:24:50  <KUDr> so no help
11:25:16  <KUDr> only global multiipathfinder could solve it
11:26:38  <KUDr> but such multipf, if multithreaded, will need to share data so interlocked access, thread syncing, etc. << additional overhead
11:26:49  <Tron> pathfinding sohuld run parallel to what?
11:26:52  <Tron> command processing?
11:27:09  <Tron> command modifies map + pathfinder reads map -> boom
11:27:21  <Tron> so they need a lock on the map
11:27:23  <KUDr> paralel to each other i guess
11:27:34  <Tron> which essentially serialises them
11:27:42  <KUDr> yes
11:27:51  <Tron> so having threads for this is pointless
11:27:54  <KUDr> this is what i told
11:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> we all agree that threads are probably not the way to go here ;)
11:29:57  <Tron> it simply doesn't work
11:30:03  <Patrick_> currently, is there a single global representation of all possible paths?
11:30:11  <Patrick_> modified every time someone builds
11:30:18  <Patrick_> or something to that effect
11:30:19  <Tron> there's a huge, volatile data structure, which practically everthing needs
11:30:34  <Tron> Patrick_: it's called "the map"
11:30:55  <Patrick_> ah, so the pathfinders just run on the map
11:31:03  <Patrick_> without any sort of fancy abstract tree thing
11:31:15  <Patrick_> which a thread could maintain, eh, eh?
11:31:30  <Tron> for the fancy abstract thing ask KUDr
11:31:45  <Patrick_> KUDr: work faster
11:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, the pathfinder has some kind of cache
11:31:54  <Tron> though it does not work too well, iirc
11:32:05  <Tron> KUDr: or has the problem been fixed?
11:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> which already causes enough problems :)
11:33:28  <KUDr> Tron: only hotfixed - CHR dropped from 9x% to 8x% on large maps with hunderts of trains
11:33:38  <Tron> CHR?
11:33:47  <Tron> Chache Hit Ratio
11:33:48  <KUDr> so performance hit is around 10%
11:34:05  <KUDr> or less
11:34:06  <Tron> well, does the hotfix work 100%?
11:34:11  <KUDr> yes
11:34:16  <Tron> is there a chance for a real fix?
11:34:24  <KUDr> yes
11:34:35  <KUDr> but i would like to do it after newsig
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11:35:01  <KUDr> as the newsig will introduce different algo probably
11:35:11  <KUDr> more global
11:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> about that hotfix, i was thinking, the problem was that new clients could not rebuild the cache on join, so how about only rebuiling the cache right after the server made the networt save (and issued command for rebuilding on the clients)?
11:35:37  <KUDr> taking into consideration also where other trains are and where they would like to go
11:36:02  <peter1138> well
11:36:09  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause3: the problem is that cached info is not 100% accurate
11:36:22  <peter1138> the network server could invalidate the cache directly after making the save
11:36:29  <peter1138> so the cache is only cleared then
11:36:32  <peter1138> instead of all the time
11:36:53  <peter1138> or you save the cache, but...
11:36:53  <KUDr> so when you build the cache for long time, you can have cached segment cost slightly different than new client (diff < 3)
11:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is what i said ;)
11:37:34  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, i was thinking aboyt that
11:37:47  <KUDr> but i must learn more about network stuff
11:38:02  <KUDr> to be sure that it comes at the rigt moment
11:38:10  <KUDr> but it is the way
11:38:21  <KUDr> and good enough i guess
11:38:49  <Tron> what exactly is the cause for the problem?
11:38:57  <peter1138> network_server.c:280+ heh
11:39:10  <peter1138> otoh, why is the cached info not 100% accurate...
11:39:22  <peter1138> KUDr: doesn't need to be a command
11:39:31  <KUDr> peter1138: my mistake when designing it
11:39:48  <KUDr> doesn't need to be a command?
11:40:03  <KUDr> how else?
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11:40:27  <peter1138> hmm
11:40:35  <peter1138> of course
11:40:41  <peter1138> other clients, heh
11:41:31  <Rubidium> isn't there are command or notification of a newly joined player that arrives at all clients at the same tick?
11:42:14  <KUDr> Rubidium: well this is why i must learn the network stuff
11:42:33  <KUDr> to see what are the possibilities
11:42:38  <KUDr> but good idea
11:42:46  <KUDr> worth proving
11:42:52  <peter1138> it needs to happen directly after making the save, before any other processing happens
11:42:59  <peter1138> so...
11:43:08  <peter1138> KUDr: can you fix your mistake? :)
11:43:09  <KUDr> in the same frame as the save
11:43:35  <KUDr> so it must be sent to the clients and at the right moment the save must be done
11:43:51  <KUDr> peter1138: yes by redesigning it
11:44:03  <peter1138> heh
11:44:25  <KUDr> segment starts one track piece before it should
11:45:02  <KUDr> corner track and straight track make no difference in that case
11:45:08  <KUDr> which is a mistake
11:45:21  <KUDr> so which one is cached first it is used
11:45:56  <KUDr> i am happy that i was able to at least figure out where the problem is
11:46:20  <KUDr> after few nights spent over it
11:46:33  <KUDr> comparing cache dumps
11:46:50  <peter1138> hmm
11:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is an interesting problem :)
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11:48:13  <KUDr> so segment should either start one track piece later or they should be normalized (like condition that if there is also straight track on it, it will be used instead of corner track, or so)
11:48:47  <KUDr> probably this could be the easiest fix
11:49:05  <peter1138> what is a segment in this case?
11:49:17  <KUDr> from junction to junction
11:49:42  <KUDr> but limited to max 100 tiles
11:53:59  <KUDr> peter1138: strcasecmp(buf1, _bufcache); // sort by name << is that UTF-8 aware? / probably not...
11:54:30  <KUDr> comes from ...GetCustomEngineName()...
11:55:33  <peter1138> no it's not
11:56:03  <peter1138> it probably wasn't latin15 aware either...
11:56:10  <peter1138> though i don't know
11:56:22  <KUDr> so what would the right way now?
11:56:59  <KUDr> rather forget it that try to solve it?
11:57:21  <KUDr> that->than
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12:06:59  <HMage> KUDr: use unicode version of that?
12:08:02  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:08:06  <KUDr> HMage: dunno.
12:08:40  <KUDr> first convert to unicode then compare...
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12:09:11  <KUDr> horse has bigger head so i let this for him
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12:10:22  <HMage> strcasecmp is aware of latin15, if you use setlocale() in main()
12:10:53  <peter1138> which we didn't so it wasn't
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12:13:31  <smeding_> gahhhh i suck at openttd
12:14:08  <smeding_> there are like 500 crates of goods waiting everywhere and i only have trucks (ai fucked the roads up so there's no room for a station ;/)
12:14:08  <Nigel> smeding_, didn't we all at the start?
12:14:35  <Nigel> smeding_, build another depot next to your current one?
12:14:51  <Nigel> (so you have two depots side by side)
12:15:32  <Nigel> of course, there are ways to annoy the AIs so much, you can in some cases make them broke ;)
12:15:41  <Patrick_> buy them out
12:16:24  <Nigel> Patrick_, or that... but nah, make them go bankrupt, and refuse to buy them out... all the rail gets cleared, and the roads get a neutral owner
12:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> turn AI off...
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12:17:55  <Nigel> smeding_, anyway, have fun ;)
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12:20:01  <smeding_> i'm not a newb, i have 4 depots and no room for any more
12:20:16  <smeding_> that's why it's stupid that i suck, i've been playing for a while
12:22:02  <Patrick_> the AI just shits over the landscape, don't blame yourself
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12:23:34  <smeding_> i guess.
12:24:27  <smeding_> that was fucking lame. i deleted a station because it stopped accepting goods for like a year, and then the AI builds one there and it starts accepting goods ;/
12:24:57  <Patrick_> you could have just expanded the catchment area
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12:26:57  <smeding_> there was no way. town wouldn't let me delete some redundant piece of road, and that was the only way to get the catchment area larger in the right direction
12:27:44  <Patrick_> fund commercial buildings?
12:27:54  <Patrick_> tree spamming, although I consider that cheating
12:27:55  <smeding_> didn't work yet
12:28:04  <smeding_> and there wasn't any place for trees either
12:28:14  <smeding_> (fucking AI tried to build a bus line, creating roads everywhere)
12:28:19  <Patrick_> ah.
12:29:20  <smeding_> i did build a new truck stop in the middle of the town but redirecting all cars there was a pain, plus there's only room for one extra stop maybe
12:30:35  <Patrick_> there's the tree exploit but it's not very spirited
12:31:02  <Patrick_> let's say the town has 100 tiles of trees within it's juristiction. Building more trees there won't improve your rep.
12:31:05  <Patrick_> so demolish them all.
12:31:18  <Patrick_> you'll go down to appalling, but when you tree it up, you go back up to "mediocre" or "good"
12:31:30  <Patrick_> it's a bloody hassle to use that to remove an entire town
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12:33:17  <smeding_> that didn't work either. but i tried it before
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12:37:43  <Patrick_> oh, yeah, did anyone ever make autosignals again?
12:37:53  <Patrick_> it's probably in the miniIN but damnnit, it's a trunk feature
12:37:58  <Patrick_> absolutely indespensible
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12:56:40  <Patrick_> I dig the new depot controls
12:56:45  <Patrick_> mindless micromanagement has died
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12:56:49  <Patrick_> stop all, start all, sell all
12:56:53  <Patrick_> just .. cool
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13:00:06  <Darkvater> morning
13:00:21  <Rubidium> good afternoon
13:00:31  <Darkvater> hmm
13:00:36  <Darkvater> Rubidium: about the viewports, right?
13:01:03  <Rubidium> what about them?
13:01:04  <Darkvater> viewports are bitmasked with an uint32 so you can have max 32 viewports atm (ok, can be changed of course)
13:01:31  <Darkvater> but if we have hlet's say 50 windows and only 32 viewports some things will break if you request the 33rd viewport
13:02:18  <Darkvater> Tron: MSVC2003/2005 don't support for-loop variable decleration in C mode
13:02:42  <smithj> Hi Guys, I think i have found a road building bug. A picture is at and my save game is
13:02:56  *** Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
13:03:01  <smithj> if someone can help to confirm this is a bug before i report it
13:03:07  <Darkvater> smithj: BITMAP?
13:03:18  <smithj> sorry, im at work and paint is all i have
13:03:26  <Tron> the game has a screenshot function
13:03:27  <Darkvater> don't you have openttd running?
13:03:52  * Darkvater is not downloading 1MB for a 640x480 screenshot
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13:05:07  <smithj>
13:05:18  <smithj> DarkVater: sorry for BMP :)
13:05:29  <Patrick_> where's the bug?
13:05:54  <Darkvater> I think he means that the town built a driveway into the frontyard of a house
13:06:04  <smithj> if you try to construct a road on that section where the two roads are, it says land is sloped in wrong direction
13:06:22  <Rubidium> Darkvater: you can easily replace the bitmask with a bool in the viewport struct, right?
13:06:27  <Patrick_> there are lots of roads.
13:06:41  <smithj> same with the ubend road, i try to make it straight and round the corner and same error
13:07:01  <Patrick_> yes, perhaps your land is sloped in the wrong direction
13:07:24  <smithj> it shouldnt be if i make it straight
13:07:55  <smithj> if you guys want i can use a screen capture to show you me trying to build it, perhaps be easier than pictures...?
13:08:26  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Quit: Prcat Trojhlavy Delfin]
13:08:59  <Darkvater> smithj: the land is sloped in the wrong direction; you cannot build on the "outer" edge of a foundation
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13:09:38  <smeding_> bah, just when i manage to buy them all over and delete their crazy roads and trains, another company pops up and builds everything full of crap again.
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13:10:41  <Patrick_> turn the "max companies" down to below the current number
13:10:45  <Patrick_> then no more will start
13:10:52  <Darkvater> that's only network
13:10:59  <Patrick_> er, max competitors
13:11:04  <Patrick_> top of the difficulty
13:11:59  <smithj> darkvater: is this a feature...?  As i presumed having 2 blocks next to each other makes them level...?
13:12:12  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:12:21  <Darkvater> it's a feature or a known 'bug' or however you want to call it
13:15:03  <Patrick_> oooh you know what'd be a cool feature
13:15:16  <Patrick_> unloading takes an appreciable length of time, but visually it happens instantly
13:15:24  <Patrick_> have the wagons unload gradually :)
13:15:40  <Patrick_> discuss.
13:16:00  <smithj> I have made a video of my road building, I think it explains easier.  The Video is 3.8MB
13:16:02  <smithj>
13:16:15  <Darkvater> we know what you are talking about :)
13:16:58  <smithj> with the slopes..?  I'm also trying to make 2 straight roads join, but they wont do that either
13:17:55  <peter1138> Patrick_: there's already a patch for that
13:18:07  <Patrick_> lemme guess, it's perpetually stuck in miniIN
13:18:54  <Darkvater> smithj:
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13:19:00  <Patrick_> neat, i can build rails on top of competitor roads again
13:19:11  <Patrick_> doesn't that leave massive potential for abuse?
13:19:18  * Patrick_ cheerfully walls of areas of travel
13:20:00  <smithj> DarkVater, ok.  I accept i cant join them.  Is it possible to make this happen in future, so i can join them...?
13:20:39  <Darkvater> smithj: perhaps
13:20:49  <peter1138> Patrick_: you always could?
13:21:04  <Patrick_> I was sure at one point it was forbidden
13:21:30  <peter1138> not that i'm aware of
13:21:35  <smithj> I will keep an eye on the nightlies :)
13:25:01  <Patrick_> so what does this new "transfer" thing do?
13:25:04  <Patrick_> unload without selling?
13:25:19  <Sacro> Patrick_: avoid it, tis broken
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13:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> "new"... how long have you been gone? :p
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13:29:45  <Darkvater> Rubidium: want something new to do for 0.5? :)
13:30:04  <Rubidium> I've been looking at syncing makefile_rewrite
13:30:16  <Darkvater> ah..I have better thing for you :)
13:30:26  <Patrick_> Eddi|zuHause: since about revision 3500
13:30:36  <Patrick_> I popped back in briefly at about 5000
13:30:40  <Darkvater> Rubidium: #3 or #9
13:31:31  <Patrick_> also, why do buses make the monorail noise
13:32:11  <Sacro> o rly?
13:32:16  <Rubidium> #3 is one big conflict
13:32:27  <Rubidium> and what is the exact idea for #9
13:32:46  <Darkvater> Rubidium: look in 0.4.8. scroll the minimap with LMB
13:32:52  <Darkvater> now try the same with HEAD
13:33:14  <Darkvater> truelight commit from a month or two ago that broke it
13:34:15  <Patrick_> hey, my minimap doesn't scroll!
13:35:10  <Sacro> Patrick_: id recommend you return it for a refund
13:36:38  <smeding_> god, the AI really hates efficiency. there are 3 bridges where one would do
13:36:51  <smeding_> like, first over it, then back, then over it again
13:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i say it one more time... TURN OFF THE AI
13:37:36  <smeding_> nah
13:37:38  <smeding_> it's fun :P
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13:37:56  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not
13:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, what came from the attempt to use yapf for AI building?
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13:45:27  <Patrick_> no autosignals -> hibernate for another 2000 revisions
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13:47:04  <Darkvater> hmm, what shall we do if we run out of viewports for a window?
13:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause> close the oldest window with a viewport
13:47:44  <Rubidium> can't you assign a viewport to each window?
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13:48:14  <Darkvater> Rubidium: not with the current implementtion
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13:49:36  <Darkvater> or we need the viewport array to be just as big as the windows array..but who is going to have 100 viewports open if you have 100 windows?
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13:50:48  <HMage> Darkvater: someone with ridiciously high resolution like 12000x9000 would be using so many windows and viewports
13:51:17  <Darkvater> HMage: than that person needs to recompile openttd because such resolutions are not supported
13:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> he would have to modify the source anyway
13:51:25  <Darkvater> and then that person can solve it for himself
13:51:32  <HMage> it's better to be known to support new and experimental high tech, than limit it.. oh, isee.
13:52:13  <HMage> anyway sorry for jumpin' into the conversation
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13:54:38  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7202 /trunk/ (viewport.c viewport.h window.c):
13:54:38  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Move _viewports and _active_viewports local to viewport.c and have them
13:54:38  <CIA-1>  called from the appropiate places in window.c
13:55:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd still say, simply close another viewport
13:55:28  <peter1138> close the main viewport :D
13:55:46  <Darkvater> :D
13:55:49  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7203 /trunk/window.h: -Cleanup: Donnu what Miham was smoking there, but removed it (assert_compile + 3)
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14:01:37  <Darkvater> how can 1.5K people download OpenTTD every day?
14:02:50  <Darkvater> nice 82309+24878 ~100.000 downloads for windows
14:03:56  *** valhalla1w [] has joined #openttd
14:05:15  <izhirahider> Darkvater, svn updates count?
14:06:08  <Darkvater> no this is only SF downloads
14:06:21  <HMage> maybe it's search bots?
14:06:51  <Darkvater> search bots downloading only win32 binaries but not src files?
14:07:15  <Sacro> Darkvater: maybe the bot doesnt care about compiling?
14:08:01  <HMage> there are suspiciously low amount of project web hits, compared to downloads
14:08:18  <Darkvater> that's cause we don't use the SF website
14:10:13  <HMage> on a side note, I've just checked the torrent page and it doesn't work
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14:11:06  <Darkvater> October 2006: Total Hits3069128
14:11:20  <Darkvater> Total Hosts82135
14:12:38  <valhalla1w> !seen brianetta
14:12:40  <_42_> valhalla1w, Brianetta ( was last seen quitting #openttdcoop 12 hours 9 minutes ago (18.11. 02:02) stating "Quit: Tschüß" after spending 10 hours 53 minutes there.
14:12:44  <valhalla1w> hrm.
14:13:18  <Darkvater> HMage: yeah, seems it's down
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14:13:47  <KUDr> cau
14:13:53  <KUDr> Hadez
14:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the thing always with the z at the end?
14:15:17  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: alphabet?
14:15:22  <Hadez> Fashion?
14:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: no, that ends with omega...
14:16:28  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
14:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> then i officially do not understand the fashion of you tschechians ;)
14:18:45  <Hadez> Better nick than Killer, right? :-D
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14:20:09  <Eddi|zuHause> hm?
14:20:32  <Darkvater> ok any takers?
14:20:33  <Darkvater>
14:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> why is nobody telling me that i am just missing scrubs? :p
14:22:15  <Frostregen> is here anyone with a multicore system with more than 2 cores?
14:26:29  <HMage> I have only 2
14:27:50  <Frostregen> hmm, would need at least 3. but thx :)
14:27:51  <Sionide> Eddi|zuHause, it doesn't start for 2 weeks..
14:28:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Sionide: german TV is 2 seasons behind...
14:30:16  <HMage> Frostregen: if want to test syncing, you can try assigning first thread on first cpu, second on second cpu, and third on first cpu, but limit third thread to communicate only with second thread
14:30:41  *** Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
14:30:54  <Frostregen> i wanted to test scalability
14:32:11  <HMage> if it's an unix software, there are many unix shells that provide access to multicpu (like 32x) for software developers. I remember IBM having a bunch of these.
14:32:24  <Frostregen> hmm, its java
14:32:33  <Frostregen> it's
14:32:51  <HMage> does you program compile with gcj?
14:33:03  <Frostregen> idk :)
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14:38:01  <Rubidium> ok, found the cause of the not working left mouse button. I even start to wonder why the double click option was added as it was/is broken by design (if you clicked twice, you were moving twice)
14:38:28  <Rubidium> anyway:
14:38:42  <Rubidium> Darkvater: any comments?
14:38:52  <Darkvater> soon :)
14:39:02  <Darkvater> what does this double click actually do?
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14:39:14  <Darkvater> haven't really been able to figure out during testing...
14:39:25  <Darkvater> I could achieve the same by clicking once or on the 'center' button
14:40:07  <Rubidium> I think it centered the smallmap too at the clicked position, but due to the two clicks, it's always off by the distance from the center of the smallmap (hence the broken by design statement)
14:41:07  * Darkvater would be glad if he could also have that fixed :)
14:41:58  <smeding_> hmm, how long does a company need to exist before one can buy shares in it
14:42:03  <Darkvater> 5
14:42:04  <Darkvater> Y
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14:43:05  <Rubidium> the problem with trying to fix that is that if you keep your mouse stationary for > a few 100 ms, it sees it as a new click, which gets translated into a double click
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14:44:45  <Rubidium> which would as a reaction jump the smallmap to a location where it's not supposed to be going
14:50:03  <Darkvater> hmm
14:50:28  <Darkvater> Rubidium: can you take a look at it? If it's too hard just remove the double-click and we'll use the button
14:51:34  <Rubidium> removing the doubleclick action (and reintroducing one assignment) fixes the whole 'not being able to scroll with lmb' bug
14:51:51  <Rubidium> but I don't understand what you means with 'the button'
14:52:04  <Darkvater> there is a 'smallmap' button at the bottom of the window
14:52:14  <Darkvater> clicking that centres the smallmap on the target
14:52:52  <Darkvater> r6040
14:53:00  <Rubidium> but the behaviour of the double click was different; it centers both the large and smallmap on the point where the doubleclick took place
14:58:21  <Rubidium> basically: scrolling & double click are mutually exclusive and implementing the double click correctly needs more code than it currently does to counteract the 'move twice on double click' issue
14:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say the scrolling is more important than the centering...
14:59:14  <Tron> i want my scrolling minimap back!
14:59:28  <Darkvater> hmm how about having a counter in WE_MOUSELOOP and if that's donnu...100 or something you set a variable inside a window that means no-double-click on next click?
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15:00:24  <Rubidium> the problem is that a click happens at the next tick _if_ the mouse is still pressed because _left_mouse_clicked has to be set to false for the scrolling to work
15:00:38  <Rubidium> so there is no way to distinguish between scrolling and double clicking
15:01:03  <Darkvater> ah
15:02:33  <Darkvater> and we have no nicer way to do this?
15:02:51  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
15:03:04  <Rubidium> not that I know of, but I'm not specialized in the whole window event stuff
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15:10:52  <Eddi|zuHause> how about distinguishing between mouse button down, and mouse button hold events?
15:13:38  <peter1138> how?
15:13:48  <Rubidium> would probable mean rewriting the whole mouse event system
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15:24:11  <Rubidium> ok, does anyone have a reason not to commit the fix?
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15:28:05  <Darkvater> Rubidium: it removes double-click?
15:28:11  <Rubidium> yes
15:28:27  <Darkvater> the reason ^
15:28:34  <peter1138> what does double click do?
15:28:55  <Rubidium> center both the smallmap and the large map at the clicked point on the smallmap
15:29:15  <peter1138> hmm
15:29:22  <Rubidium> well, it should have done that, but doesn't do that unless you are clicking in the (exact) middle of the smallmap
15:30:43  <Rubidium> as both the first and second click of the doubleclick move the map
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15:31:55  <Tron> so /somebody/ replaced a perfectly good feature with something broken?
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15:32:13  <Rubidium> yes
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15:37:49  <Darkvater> then I would vote for LMB-scrolling back with a big // XXX
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15:39:12  <Rubidium> hmm, WE_SCROLL has nothing to do with LMB scrolling...
15:39:58  <Rubidium> LMB scrolling is done by 'unclicking' the mouse button and then the next tick will 'click' the mouse button again; effectively left clicking continuously.
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15:43:23  <Rubidium> ok, updated the diff with a large comment... however, I've got to go... will commit it tonight or one of you has to commit it
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15:49:32  <CIA-1> maedhros * r7204 /branches/newhouses/ (town.h town_cmd.c):
15:49:32  <CIA-1> [NewHouses] -Fix (r7165):
15:49:32  <CIA-1>  - The arrays in the BuildingCounts struct store numbers of houses; the house ids are the array indices.
15:49:32  <CIA-1>  - Increase the sizes of the probability variables to cope with the larger number of house ids.
15:49:32  <CIA-1>  - Updated a cast.
15:49:33  <CIA-1>  - Fixed some off-by-one errors (not introduced by r7165).
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16:32:56  <jnmbk> Is OpenTTD planing to go UTF-8? (MiHaMiX: If so I think I should use utf8 in Turkish language translation)
16:33:58  <hylje> yes
16:34:05  <hylje> i think UTF-8 was just merged
16:34:09  <hylje> so its in trunk
16:34:19  <Tron> use ISO8859-15
16:34:44  <Tron> or you break the turkish translation for the time being
16:34:55  <jnmbk> Tron: why not UTF-8? -15 doesn't have these: ?ü?
16:35:06  <Tron> <Tron> or you break the turkish translation for the time being
16:35:14  <jnmbk> I can just look through translation file and fix it
16:35:14  <Sacro> [16:32] <jnmbk> Is OpenTTD planing to go UTF-8? (MiHaMiX: If so I think I should use utf8 in Turkish language translation) <- it HAS
16:35:36  <Tron> pardon?
16:36:01  <jnmbk> I have been using "s" instead of "?"
16:36:15  <hylje> there were a couple of UTF8 merges into trunk yesterday or the day before it
16:37:01  <Sionide> <- heh little arrow.. cute
16:37:13  <hylje> :3
16:37:19  <Sacro> Sionide: thats my arrow :(
16:37:39  <Sionide> Sacro, i think these are your ???? music notes too? or maybe i nicked 'em off someone else..
16:37:44  <Sacro> Sionide: :o
16:37:53  <Sionide> lol
16:38:01  * jnmbk is trying to change turkish encoding into utf8 and compile...
16:38:34  <Sacro> ????????????
16:39:22  <peter1138> it is already utf8
16:39:46  <jnmbk> $ file lang/turkish.txt
16:39:47  <jnmbk> lang/turkish.txt: UTF-8 Unicode English text, with very long lines
16:39:52  <jnmbk> just saw it :)
16:43:28  <Darkvater> pompom
16:44:05  <jnmbk> Error: Cannot open file 'data/TRGIR.GRF' :P
16:44:40  <jnmbk> is it looking for CAPITALIZED TRGIR?
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16:45:31  <jnmbk> ah yes it is :)
16:45:45  <jnmbk> $ mv data/trgir.grf data/TRGIR.GRF
16:45:47  <peter1138> there's a tolower in there somewhere
16:46:53  <peter1138> unless strtolower()'s been broken...
16:47:07  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7205 /trunk/ (7 files):
16:47:07  <CIA-1> -Fix [FS#350, SF#1560913]: Window allocation and deletion messed with the actual window
16:47:07  <CIA-1>  structs inside their array, and possibly invalidating pointers higher up.
16:47:07  <CIA-1>  Meaning that any function called within an wndproc could cause unknown/invalid pointers
16:47:07  <CIA-1>  once control was returned to this function. Solved by the introduction of an extra
16:47:07  <Darkvater> could be... /me checks
16:47:09  <CIA-1>  abstraction layer, an array of z-window positions that is only concerned with the
16:47:11  <CIA-1>  pointers.
16:47:20  <jnmbk> hmm, turkish characters are shown as ?
16:47:38  <peter1138> yeah, there are no glyphs for them by default
16:47:49  <peter1138> so either set up a font, or make a grf file
16:47:50  <peter1138> heh
16:48:04  <glx> jnmbk: you need to compile with WITH_FREETYPE and use fonts
16:48:19  <jnmbk> make --WITH_FREETYPE ?
16:48:25  <peter1138> they can be substituted if necessary
16:48:30  <peter1138> just ./configure
16:48:32  <jnmbk> ok
16:48:39  <peter1138> should autodetect it
16:48:45  <peter1138> check Makefile.config afterwards
16:48:55  <glx> of course you need freetype-dev and freetype :)
16:48:59  <peter1138> Darkvater: it works for me... hmm.
16:49:05  <peter1138> jnmbk: what's your locale set to?
16:49:29  <peter1138> hmm
16:49:30  <jnmbk> $ echo $LANG
16:49:31  <jnmbk> tr_TR.UTF-8
16:49:52  <peter1138> still works :/
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16:52:06  <peter1138> er, not that that's a bad thing, heh
16:55:01  <Darkvater> he don't work for me either
16:55:11  <Darkvater> the filename must either be FULLY uppercase or FULLY lowercase
16:55:16  <Darkvater> but that's not strtolower's fault
16:55:34  <peter1138> 16:48 < jnmbk> $ mv data/trgir.grf data/TRGIR.GRF
16:55:51  <jnmbk> maybe because of my locale
16:56:02  <peter1138> case-sensitive filesystems... feh
16:56:07  <jnmbk> capital of i is not I in turkish
16:56:13  <jnmbk> it's ?
16:56:25  <peter1138> o_O
16:56:32  <Darkvater> he
16:56:57  <Sacro> ooh, how to add fonts?
16:56:57  <peter1138> lowercase I is ??
16:57:02  <jnmbk> yep
16:57:08  <peter1138> Sacro: medium_font = Tahoma, Bold
16:57:14  * Sacro did a ./configure && make
17:01:16  <Sacro> Unable to use 'Tahoma, Bold' for medium font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
17:01:17  <Darkvater> peter1138: sweet, fontconfig \o/
17:01:17  <Darkvater> oh
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17:01:17  <Sacro> peter1138: nope
17:01:17  <peter1138> "nope" ?
17:01:17  <Sacro> see above :p
17:01:17  <peter1138> oh
17:01:17  <peter1138> of course, that works only if you have tahoma bold installed
17:01:17  <peter1138> and you need fontconfig-dev stuff too
17:01:17  <peter1138> medium_font = /path/to/tahomabd.ttf
17:01:17  <Sacro> i think i do :\
17:01:17  <peter1138> works as well
17:01:17  <Sacro> /usr/share/fonts ... err
17:01:17  <Sacro> ttd?
17:01:17  <Sacro> *ttf?
17:01:17  <peter1138> hmm/
17:01:17  <Tron> True Type Font
17:01:17  <Darkvater> peter1138: do you reckon strtolower needs current locale or "C" locale?
17:01:17  <Darkvater> technically the conversion *is* correct
17:01:17  <peter1138> hehe
17:01:17  <peter1138> well
17:01:17  <Sacro> :D OpenTTD in comic sans :D
17:01:17  <peter1138> Sacro ...
17:01:17  <peter1138> you must die
17:01:17  <Darkvater> Sacro: do wingdings!
17:01:17  <Tron> peter1138: can it digest other types besides .ttf?
17:01:17  <Sacro> haha, i sense division between the devs
17:01:17  <peter1138> it's freetype
17:01:17  <peter1138> so yes
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17:01:17  <peter1138> fontconfig can too
17:01:24  <Sacro> Darkvater: its impossible to read
17:01:27  <peter1138> although usually by default it's set to only show scalable fonts
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17:01:38  <peter1138> and often only freetype
17:01:39  <peter1138> errr
17:01:41  <peter1138> truetype
17:01:44  *** jnmbk_ is now known as jnmbk
17:02:13  <peter1138> hmm
17:02:43  <peter1138> if (strcasecmp(font, "Comic Sans MS") == 0) error("Sacro's evil!");
17:02:58  <jnmbk> so, how should I edit this?
17:03:49  <peter1138>
17:04:24  <jnmbk> oh, that looks great :)
17:04:40  <peter1138> jnmbk: edit?
17:04:50  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7206 /trunk/ (8 files):
17:04:50  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Remove (some of) the magic needed for windows that could be invalid after
17:04:50  <CIA-1>  a call to DeleteWindow() somewhere else. Also do some cleanup with AllowWindowDescFront()
17:04:51  <peter1138> it doesn't need editing
17:05:18  <jnmbk> so, what should i do ? (exactly)
17:05:31  <peter1138> well, build it
17:05:37  <peter1138> unless you already built it with those settings
17:06:04  <jnmbk> I built it but ? signs show up again
17:06:06  <Tron> strange. helvB10-ISO8859-15.pcf.gz doesn't seem to have the Euro
17:06:35  * jnmbk is retrying...
17:06:57  <peter1138> jnmbk: well you still need to pick a font. by default it uses the sprites
17:07:09  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7207 /trunk/ (console.c console.h window.c): -Codechange: Pass the (unchanged) windowpointer to the console window and do it only once.
17:07:18  <Sacro> VeraBd is nice
17:07:21  * jnmbk doesn't how to do it (pick a font) :)
17:07:34  <Darkvater> < dinner
17:08:42  <jnmbk> ah in openttd.conf
17:08:44  <Darkvater> ok, almost
17:08:45  <Tron> ¥€$
17:08:56  <peter1138> ¥EUR$
17:08:58  <jnmbk> cfg
17:09:04  *** tormentum [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:09:54  <Sacro> ¥EURß?
17:10:34  *** z [] has joined #openttd
17:10:42  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
17:11:41  <peter1138> !seen bjarni
17:11:43  <_42_> peter1138, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 15 hours 45 minutes ago (18.11. 01:25) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 7 hours 12 minutes there.
17:12:42  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7208 /trunk/smallmap_gui.c: -Revert [r6040]: Remove double-click action in minimap and reintroduce lmb-scrolling (Rubidium)
17:13:32  *** Szandor [] has quit []
17:14:55  <jnmbk> is there a command for displaying available fonts? Neither Tahoma nor Serif worked...
17:15:08  <peter1138> fc-list
17:15:23  <jnmbk> thanks
17:16:35  <Darkvater> hmm, gcc is warning :(
17:17:08  <jnmbk> ok, now it works pretty good...
17:17:29  <jnmbk> Let's switch to UTF-8 :)
17:17:58  <jnmbk> in translator
17:19:27  <Sacro> ls /usr/share/fonts/TTF/ worked for me
17:21:08  <peter1138> the translator is already utf8, heh
17:21:12  <peter1138> it just restricts to latin15
17:22:26  <jnmbk> Ok, I won't use translator to change those strings anyway :) I have lots of i's to change with ?'s
17:22:49  <jnmbk> I'll put a patch file on flyspray when done
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17:31:38  * peter1138 hmms at
17:31:44  <peter1138> which appears to have disappeared
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17:33:37  <hylje> the russian mafia
17:34:24  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7209 /trunk/station_gui.c: -Codechange: Alter position of scroll bar in the station list; the filter line isn't scrollable...
17:35:43  <peter1138> hmm, engine_gui.c:118 ?
17:36:52  <Tron> peter1138: mr. Darkvater has used a not-so-verbose compiler
17:36:57  <peter1138> ahh
17:37:34  <Tron> the other warnings, too
17:37:49  <peter1138> i shall ignore them for now then
17:37:57  <Tron> yes, you shall do so
17:38:36  <peter1138> hmm
17:38:50  <peter1138> why would the resolution list list something i can't view?
17:39:06  <peter1138> (X set to 1600x1200 max, ottd lists 1920x1200)
17:39:32  <peter1138> hmm, only in windowed mode
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17:40:42  <peter1138> hmm
17:40:44  <peter1138> although it does work
17:40:52  <peter1138> just doesn't all fit on :)
17:41:52  <Tron> if you aren't in fullscreen
17:41:59  <Tron> SDL reports "any resolution is fine"
17:42:11  <Tron> so OTTD displays the standard resolution list it has built in
17:42:17  <peter1138> yeah
17:42:23  <peter1138> never noticed it before
17:43:13  <Tron> it's there sind Aeons(tm)
17:43:20  <hylje> since
17:43:20  <Tron> s/since/
17:43:24  <Tron> ARG
17:43:26  <Tron> s/sind/since/
17:43:49  <peter1138> for :)
17:44:02  <Tron> *sobs*
17:44:04  <hylje> for time in aeons:
17:44:36  <peter1138> (which isn't grammatically correct, but neither is since)
17:45:25  <Tron> ok
17:45:34  <Tron> it's there $PREPOSITION Aeons(tm)
17:46:08  <smeding_> what's the deal with "vehicle 1337 is very old and needs to be replaced urgently" but there's no new type to replace it with ;/
17:46:19  <peter1138> it's been there for Aeons(tm)
17:46:20  <smeding_> and i can't be arsed to do it manually to all my 78 vehicles ;/
17:46:33  <peter1138> english :/
17:47:06  <peter1138> that message means it needs to be replaced
17:47:13  <smeding_> obviously
17:47:15  <peter1138> it doesn't mean it needs to be replaced with something else
17:47:17  <Born_Acorn> UTF-8ness woo
17:47:19  <smeding_> ah
17:47:22  <smeding_> but still. ;/
17:47:28  <SpComb> Logs:
17:47:28  <Born_Acorn> !logs
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17:47:47  <peter1138> there is an engine renew setting in patches that handles that for you
17:47:51  <Born_Acorn> AUTORENEW.
17:47:58  <smeding_> i'm mostly talking about trucks ;/
17:48:10  <Born_Acorn> It works for all vehicles.
17:48:32  <Born_Acorn> Turn it on, and make sure you have the depots for replacement
17:49:19  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:52:12  <jnmbk> Another question, will openttd try to find a font or just use grf's at first install on windows?
18:00:22  <glx> it uses fonts if you set fonts in openttd.cfg
18:00:37  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Lunch
18:00:39  <glx> and it needs to be compiled with freetype even on windows
18:02:14  <jnmbk> so, official binaries will be freetype enabled, right?
18:06:02  *** reihof [] has joined #openttd
18:09:55  *** reihof [] has quit [Quit: Kopete 0.10.3 :]
18:10:44  <peter1138> at some point
18:10:57  <peter1138> but, as i said
18:11:30  <peter1138> i can set up substitute characters for when freetype or no glyphs are available
18:11:49  <peter1138> it's already done for some characters
18:12:26  <jnmbk> hmm, I need those characters: ?????I
18:12:35  <jnmbk> and â
18:12:38  <peter1138> ? becomes c
18:13:09  <peter1138> I is different to I?
18:13:34  <peter1138> and is "sgiSGI" a reasonable substitute if no font is loaded?
18:13:36  <Sacro> is that an I or an l?
18:13:39  <jnmbk> ah I wrote it wrongly
18:13:50  <jnmbk> ??????â
18:14:02  <jnmbk> ^I need those 7 characters
18:15:20  <peter1138> â is there already
18:15:34  <jnmbk> ok, down to 6 :)
18:18:45  <HMage> I think russian is still planned out of official releases :)
18:20:04  <peter1138> nope
18:20:09  <peter1138> we will do russian
18:20:21  * Sacro fancies doing a russian
18:20:33  * Born_Acorn doesn't understand all this fancy freetype stuff
18:20:39  <peter1138> nothing forcing the russian openttd users to use it
18:20:41  <Tron> h0t ru551anz
18:20:53  <peter1138> but then the hack they use will be pretty dumb with utf8 support
18:20:56  <HMage> then you need 32 letters, lowercase and uppercase. That's 64.
18:20:58  <toresbe> ooh, russian people? Where?
18:21:07  <peter1138> and there is already a russian newgrf that supports all the glyphs)
18:21:09  <peter1138> -)
18:21:18  * HMage is russian
18:21:40  <toresbe> HMage: Do you know how easily attainable Elektronika BK-0010s are?
18:21:50  <HMage> I don't think they're easy
18:21:52  <HMage> that's easy*
18:21:58  <toresbe> :\
18:22:11  * toresbe would love one...
18:22:11  <Born_Acorn> I've installed this Freetype thingy, now what? peter1138! advices!
18:22:16  *** lws|Lunch is now known as lws1984
18:22:22  <toresbe> I'm so fascinated by Soviet computing technology.
18:22:32  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: 1) freetype 2) ... 3) PROFIT!
18:22:35  <Born_Acorn> paperclips and strings?
18:22:39  <toresbe> I'm a fan of Lebedev's designs, I would love to know more about the BESM-6 for example
18:22:56  <toresbe> Born_Acorn: In the 60s, S. A. Lebedev's designs were beating Cray's in speed.
18:23:14  <toresbe> His BESM-6 was produced from 1965 through the 1980s.
18:23:20  <Born_Acorn> Have you ever flicked an elastic band? Them things are fast
18:23:42  <peter1138> jnmbk:
18:23:42  * Born_Acorn 's computer is powered by rubber bands
18:23:53  <peter1138> jnmbk: apply that patch and it should substitute the letters
18:24:06  <HMage> I suppose they're actually latex bonds, not rubber bands :p
18:24:12  <jnmbk> ok, trying...
18:24:15  <Born_Acorn> It powers polarised paperclips, to create electricity!
18:24:16  *** Rexxie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:24:42  <toresbe> The Russians unfortunately lagged behind on integrated circuit design, partly due to undue government involvement in the scientists' decisions. But that's a common trait of communism, so...
18:25:10  <toresbe> HMage: But have you ever seen a BK-*?
18:25:18  <HMage> yep, and used one
18:25:19  <Born_Acorn> I've been to Burger king!
18:25:28  <toresbe> HMage: goodie :)
18:25:39  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
18:25:53  <toresbe> HMage: I have a more grown-up one, a PDP-11/83, but a BK-0010 would have been soo coool :)
18:26:03  <HMage> though at that time I saw computers only as toys, so when Atari made through to russia I chose atari (boulder dash!:)
18:26:44  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:27:06  <toresbe> arrrgh :)
18:27:15  <toresbe> An Elektronika 60 would also have been sweet
18:28:56  <toresbe> or really anything from Elektronika, or one of the Robotrons
18:29:03  <Tron> but does it run OpenTTD?
18:29:43  <HMage> openttd is too unoptimized to run on that :P
18:29:45  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...]
18:30:00  <toresbe> haha
18:30:09  <toresbe> openttd would not run on a PDP-11 in a million years
18:30:44  <toresbe> if you got the simulator core down to the maximum size of around 256-512K (that is 64K plus a few nasty hack workarounds) an iteration would take minutes
18:31:56  *** Rexxie [] has joined #openttd
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18:32:27  <jnmbk> peter1138: that patch puts gsi??I instead of ??????, right?
18:32:34  <Sacro> toresbe: is the PDP-11 turing comlete?
18:32:39  <peter1138> gsiGSI
18:32:43  <toresbe> Sacro: of course it is
18:32:44  <peter1138> it should do
18:32:49  <jnmbk> ok
18:32:50  <Sacro> toresbe: then it will run OpenTTD
18:32:51  <peter1138> but i didn't test it, heh
18:32:55  <jnmbk> it does that well
18:33:04  <Sacro> as thats written in a turing complete language
18:33:13  <peter1138> so the it's still usable without fonts
18:33:19  <peter1138> -the
18:33:22  <toresbe> Sacro: uh, yeah, it's just the tiny matter of memory space
18:33:41  <jnmbk> I'll try once again to make sure it works...
18:33:52  <Sacro> toresbe: well, turing kinda defines infinate memory
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18:34:06  <peter1138> jnmbk: if you supply the language diff, i can check it does the right thing with fonts available
18:34:54  <jnmbk> I've corrected 550 strings since I came to channel :)
18:34:55  <peter1138> top - 18:35:05 up 10:03,  5 users,  load average: 6.01, 1.86, 0.90
18:34:57  <peter1138> argh
18:35:05  <peter1138> damn that beagled
18:35:13  <peter1138> nice
18:36:04  <jnmbk> peter1138: I'm sure it works now...
18:36:18  <toresbe> Sacro: Of course - but nobody really cares about that bit ;)
18:38:14  * HMage randomly remembers that someone misspelt 'Finish' as 'Finnish' and 'Desktop' to 'Desptop'. Was hilarious to see that on a dead serious software installer.
18:38:59  <Sacro> HMage: our uni was advertising for a "Finish Translator"
18:39:10  <Sacro> :o
18:39:14  <Sacro> i thought it was finnish?
18:40:11  <Tron> toresbe: this raises the question: where do the Cancel live?
18:40:38  <Naksu> HMage
18:40:53  <Naksu>
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18:42:02  <HMage> Naksu: what is about that picture?
18:42:40  <Naksu> finlandia is a brand of vodka, not the finnish name for the country
18:42:47  <HMage> I see
18:43:18  <Naksu> i dont think there's even one country in the world that uses "finlandia" for finland :)
18:43:23  <peter1138> i had a finlandia brand tv
18:44:04  <HMage> Naksu: seems like that's russian responsible for this text. In russian for finland we say 'finlandia' :)
18:44:53  <Naksu> ah
18:45:10  * Born_Acorn wants to talk to some Finlandians
18:45:24  <Born_Acorn> From Finlandia!
18:45:45  <Naksu> Born_Acorn: silly vodka people?
18:45:54  <Born_Acorn> Or, some Englandians from Englandia!
18:46:00  <Sacro> mmm
18:46:06  <Gorre> Finlandia is evil. (certificated)
18:46:07  <Sacro> ?????
18:46:11  <Born_Acorn> Or Anglians from Anglia!
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18:46:51  <HMage> actually, people from poland might be responsible for 'finlandia' too, they're slavic language people.
18:47:02  <Sacro> damn poles
18:47:26  <HMage> no, they're just different (though we dislike them very much here in russia too:)
18:47:28  * Sacro blames it on the netherlandish
18:48:39  <toresbe> goede dag, meneer tijger
18:48:51  <Sacro> toresbe: geode dag
18:49:02  <toresbe> kersen verdelen, notitjes maken
18:49:10  <toresbe> ik hou van pannekoekjes met ijs
18:50:12  <toresbe> ik heb het meeste van mijn Nederlands vergeten, zo ik probieren mijzelf te 1 of 2 fraasen memorizieren.
18:50:27  <toresbe> memoriseren?
18:50:34  <Born_Acorn> Sacro, I'm seeing Polish cars all the time these days.
18:50:59  <Born_Acorn> They are all 90's Ford Escorts!
18:51:13  <scia> memoriseren = herrinneren?
18:51:23  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: so THATS where they all ended up
18:51:26  <scia> -1x r
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18:54:46  <Tron> peter1138: newgrf_cargo.h at the end
18:54:57  <Tron> shouldn't these VARDEFs be extern?
18:55:51  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:55:58  <Tron> *reads log*
18:56:09  <Tron> rather s/peter1138/Belugas_Gone/
18:56:16  *** Wolfy [] has joined #openttd
18:56:21  <SpComb> Logs:
18:56:21  <Wolf01> !logs
18:56:26  <Tron> Belugas_Gone: VARDEF is deprecated
18:58:57  <peter1138> all those vars will be ripped out soon
18:59:32  <peter1138> plus they're duplicated some how :/
19:01:41  <tormentum> well that was totally by accident... i lay down 9 hours ago for and fell asleep instantly
19:01:53  <tormentum> lol, it's now 3am and i'm totally awake
19:03:27  *** Wolfenstiejn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:00  <Tron> ok, this better is not caused by the change i suspect
19:04:08  <Tron> otherwise i'll be /slightly/ angry
19:06:43  <Tron> did just die?
19:07:27  <Sacro> Tron: i can do an svn up fine
19:07:55  <Tron> pretty much nothing here
19:09:20  <Tron> the intarwebz is b0rked
19:09:33  <Tron> from here i can't reach it, from uni it works
19:10:13  <toresbe> scia: het is mojelijk!
19:10:19  <toresbe> maar bedankt :)
19:10:21  <Tron> now i can reach it again from here
19:10:22  *** tormentum [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:12:03  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Quit: und weg]
19:18:25  <Sacro> Should i be worried about the lack of binaries?
19:20:56  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7210 /trunk/yapf/ (4 files):
19:20:56  <CIA-1> -CodeChange: [YAPF] the global cache object is now not destroyed/recreated
19:20:56  <CIA-1> whenever the cache is invalidated. It now supports Flush() method that is used
19:20:56  <CIA-1> instead. It should also fix mem-leak warning produced by valgrind (Tron)
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19:21:28  <Sacro> KUDr: you might regret that commit
19:21:39  <KUDr> why?
19:22:01  <Sacro> i think the compilefarm is still working...
19:22:13  <KUDr> [20:22:01]?
19:22:16  <Naksu> pfft
19:22:20  <Naksu> just recompile
19:22:22  <KUDr> shouldn't
19:22:28  <Sacro> its only got source, and linux-i386
19:22:33  <Sacro> thats quite worrying
19:22:39  <KUDr> ohh
19:23:13  <Sacro> ahh... they all failed
19:23:37  <Sacro> cannot find -lfontconfig
19:26:32  <Sacro> sound.c: In function 'SndPlayScreenCoordFx':
19:26:32  <Sacro> sound.c:201: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
19:26:32  <Sacro> sound.c:201: warning: comparison of distinct pointer types lacks a cast
19:28:50  <Sacro> viewport.c: In function 'DoSetViewportPosition':
19:28:50  <Sacro> viewport.c:189: warning: comparison of distinct pointer types lacks a cast
19:28:50  <Sacro> viewport.c: In function 'SetViewportPosition':
19:28:50  <Sacro> viewport.c:300: warning: passing argument 1 of 'DoSetViewportPosition' from incompatible pointer type
19:42:55  <glx> yeah configure for win32 has found fontconfig but I'm sure it's the wrong one :)
19:43:07  <peter1138> heh
19:43:17  <Sacro> well thats what gcc on linux is winging about
19:43:32  <peter1138> Sacro: yeah, blame darkvater :)
19:43:38  <Sacro> peter1138: will do
19:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: the compile farm will not break if someone commits in between
19:44:18  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: ah right
19:44:26  <Sacro> well by chance it was broken anyway
19:45:43  <peter1138> did configure enable fontconfig for you?
19:46:24  <glx> it does for me but I have it
19:47:18  <peter1138> @ sacro :P
19:47:29  <Sacro> peter1138: yeah it did
19:48:02  <Sacro> WITH_FREETYPE:=2.2.1
19:48:15  <Sacro> peter1138: well it found freetype, dunno how to check for fontconfig
19:48:26  <peter1138> it will auto detected font config if it's installed
19:48:29  <KUDr> << VC2005 level 4 warnings
19:48:39  <Sacro> peter1138: hmmm... dunno if it is actually
19:48:42  <peter1138> libfontconfig1-dev
19:49:03  <glx> Sacro: WITH_FONTCONFIG:=2.2.2 under WITH_FREETYPE:=2.2.1 in Makefile.config for me
19:49:23  <Sacro> i dont think i have fontconfig :\
19:49:41  <peter1138> KUDr: and none of Darkvater's warnings? hmm
19:49:49  <peter1138> install it then
19:49:49  <Sacro> seems i have 2.1.4 :\
19:50:15  <KUDr> uninitialized vars
19:50:23  <KUDr> are from DV
19:50:44  <HMage> welcome to libhell world :)
19:58:38  <Sacro> WITH_FONTCONFIG:=2.4.1
19:58:38  <Sacro> FONTCONFIG_CONFIG:=pkg-config fontconfig
19:58:54  <Sacro> needed to run fc-cache
20:04:06  <Sacro> engine_gui.c: In function 'ShowEnginePreviewWindow':
20:04:06  <Sacro> engine_gui.c:118: warning: unused variable 'w'
20:04:13  <Sacro> that ones new
20:04:38  <peter1138> same
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20:17:09  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:25:44  *** Coutal [] has joined #openttd
20:30:09  <Coutal> hey, i have noted that game mechanics penalize stations being served by most ships and busses, is that really by design?
21:04:24  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:14:26  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Purno has spoken]
21:15:52  <jnmbk> peter1138: I finished the file now...
21:18:32  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Quit: HMage]
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21:23:32  <Darkvater> hmm
21:24:37  <peter1138> jnmbk: looking
21:24:41  <peter1138> ah, mr vater
21:25:42  <Darkvater> I think I got the pointer constness wrong ;p
21:26:33  <Sacro> Darkvater: i'd second that thought
21:27:21  <peter1138> Ç?k??
21:27:31  <peter1138> works, of course, heh
21:28:10  <peter1138> jnmbk: is it *just* those characters that are changed?
21:28:18  <jnmbk> no
21:28:23  <peter1138> hmm
21:28:24  <jnmbk> some minor fixes
21:28:31  <peter1138> ok
21:28:41  <peter1138> !seen MiHaMiX
21:28:43  <_42_> peter1138, if you can't see MiHaMiX here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
21:28:47  <peter1138> o_O
21:33:42  <KUDr>
21:35:06  <Gorre> 2 tenders and no steam engine available :,(
21:36:05  <KUDr> Gorre: this shot is not about engines but about separator (empty line) between engines and wagons
21:36:26  <KUDr> waiting for objections
21:36:43  <Gorre> (of course i realized that)
21:36:58  <peter1138> does it need a split?
21:37:10  <Naksu> KUDr: any chance it could be slimmer?
21:37:29  <KUDr> Naksu: dunno - i am not gui guru
21:38:05  <KUDr> peter1138: i personally would prefer some kind of split
21:38:17  <KUDr> not exactly this one
21:38:30  <KUDr> but something similar
21:38:38  <Darkvater> do we need a split?
21:38:50  <Darkvater> oh, same question asked ;p
21:38:52  <KUDr> i understand it as "no"
21:39:05  <KUDr> if you two asked the same
21:39:12  <Darkvater> no, it is a question to something I'm not sure is needed
21:39:15  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7211 /trunk/lang/ (30 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Update all languages to use SMALLLEFTARROW/SMALLRIGHTARROW, as per english.txt, for GUI elements
21:39:21  <jnmbk> peter1138: I'll update the turkish town name generator as well...
21:42:15  <peter1138> k
21:42:32  <Sacro> :o
21:42:38  <Sacro> you mean <- and -> ?
21:45:25  <peter1138> no, sacro
21:45:34  <peter1138> we don't have sprites for that
21:45:55  <Sacro> peter1138: surely the new fonts can handle that now?
21:46:10  <Coutal> is there code infrastructure to support bidirectional languages?
21:46:52  <Sacro> Coutal: err, bidirectional?
21:46:59  <Coutal> arabic, hebrew, farsi
21:47:07  <Coutal> right-to-left
21:47:14  <peter1138> right-to-left != bidirectionial :)
21:47:17  <peter1138> but no
21:47:26  <peter1138> that would require a massive gui revamp
21:47:31  <peter1138> unfortunately
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21:47:47  <peter1138> it may be possible for things like buttons though
21:48:07  <Born_Acorn> TTDPatch style tabs!
21:50:24  <jnmbk> peter1138:
21:51:09  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: irrelevant
21:51:09  <jnmbk> :P I missed smthng at line 64
21:51:14  <eekee> Allo, where do you put the data files on OSX openttd? I have them in OTTD-macosx-powerpc-nightly-r7194/ but it complains of.. actually a bunch of the supplied data files are reported missing as well as
21:51:24  <jnmbk> +	"Elazi?", > +	"Elaz??",
21:52:52  <Sacro> lws1984: SYN
21:52:57  <lws1984> Sacro: ack?
21:53:02  <Sacro> lws1984: mac user :p
21:53:22  <lws1984> oooh
21:53:32  <lws1984> eekee:
21:53:35  <lws1984> you still here?
21:53:54  <eekee> lol :p Nah, me primary machines are Linux, I just have an iBook because they're cute & I wanted to check out OS X :d
21:54:00  <peter1138> jnmbk: 64?
21:54:02  <lws1984> you make a data folder in the OTTD-macosx-powerpc-nightly-r7194 folder
21:54:02  <peter1138> "ville" ?
21:54:08  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, I heard the words gui revamp!
21:54:10  <lws1984> and the data files go in there
21:54:24  <jnmbk> peter1138: no, line 64 of patch file
21:54:27  <lws1984> not inside the actual program
21:54:29  <peter1138> ah
21:54:33  * peter1138 makes the change
21:54:53  * lws1984 throws a dart at Sacro's head
21:55:02  <Sacro> 180!
21:55:13  *** Rexxie [] has joined #openttd
21:55:27  <eekee> lws1984: thanks~ mmm, it's kinda a bug that the bundled data files are shipped inside the program then. SHall I report it?
21:55:37  <lws1984> eekee: no, that's not a bug
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21:55:39  <lws1984> it's a feature!
21:55:40  <lws1984> actualy
21:55:44  <lws1984> it's how it's supposed to work
21:55:47  <lws1984> do'nt reprt it
21:55:52  <lws1984> *don't
21:56:21  <lws1984> the program's a selfcontained unit, the original TTD worked like that also
21:56:25  <eekee> mmm kaaay.. testing...
21:58:21  <eekee> LOL it works. Funkeh error message in the log though :d Mebbe it's just me getting confused because I remember the old way
22:01:05  <eekee> huh, no, it still barfs. Complains of nsignalsw.grf, 2ccmap.grf & a few more being missing & then crashes.Not a huge issue but~
22:02:47  *** Wolfy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04:43  *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2GoW
22:05:10  <Born_Acorn> Those are the mega "include or computer explodes" files!
22:05:15  * Born_Acorn ducks and covers
22:05:20  <Wolf01> 'night
22:05:22  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
22:05:30  <eekee> Oh I bomb-proved that comp years ago :b
22:05:32  <Born_Acorn> See! Wolf01 has exploded!
22:05:39  <eekee> er, eep o.o
22:05:47  <Born_Acorn> You've killed us all!
22:05:49  * Born_Acorn asplodes
22:06:19  <eekee> *splattered* Dammit, this suit was clean!
22:07:44  <eekee> <_<  >_>  Sorry XD;;
22:08:49  <eekee> Incidently, it don't work even if you symlink them into OTTD-macosx-powerpc-nightly-r7194/data. Bug with the nightly I 'spect
22:09:49  <Born_Acorn> Blame Bjarni! He's the mac keeper upper!
22:10:08  <eekee> lol k :)
22:10:39  *** plod [] has quit [Server closed connection]
22:10:40  <Born_Acorn> Isn't "Blame Bjarni" standard OTTD procedure these days?
22:10:49  *** plod [] has joined #openttd
22:11:09  <peter1138> yes
22:11:11  <peter1138> it's so easy
22:11:16  <peter1138> cos he's never here
22:11:21  <eekee> hehe ^^
22:12:45  <Sacro> but he IS the mac dev...
22:13:05  <eekee> Righty *nodnod*
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22:15:54  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7212 /trunk/table/namegen.h: -Codechange (FS#409): Update Turkish town name generator with Turkish characters (jnmbk)
22:17:43  <jnmbk> peter1138: you did that too?
22:18:40  <peter1138> no
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22:21:08  <Born_Acorn> He's only one man!
22:21:14  <Born_Acorn> He can only do so much!
22:21:17  * Born_Acorn screams
22:22:08  * eekee summons acorns to keep Born_Acorn quiet ^^;;
22:23:07  <peter1138> CORN! BARON!
22:23:18  <peter1138> new stations!
22:23:23  <peter1138> with waiting cargo!
22:24:04  <Sacro> peter1138: o rly?
22:24:57  <jnmbk> peter1138: it will makes some ? characters without that and fonts :)
22:25:05  <peter1138> yes, i know
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22:30:00  *** jnmbk [~jnmbk@] has quit [Quit: my laptop needs some rest :P]
22:32:37  *** MUcht is now known as Mucht
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22:34:48  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-186-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:34:59  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, UK Roadset!
22:35:06  <Born_Acorn> With Roads... uh... from the UK!
22:35:19  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-186-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:35:46  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, stations only if you could give them codage!
22:36:11  <Born_Acorn> (since everyone else has their own nfo coding projects these days!)
22:36:48  <Born_Acorn> It could be an expansion of the UK Waypoints, but into the UK Stations set, that Pikka doesn't want to do!
22:37:14  <peter1138> :D
22:37:28  <peter1138> i've coded enough stations for a lifetime ;p
22:37:57  <Darkvater> fucking double-pointered consts driving me nuts :(
22:39:04  <Born_Acorn> I did loads of work on the Glass tubes station, and it looks like they won't be done for yonks
22:39:07  <Born_Acorn> :(
22:40:02  <peter1138> aren't they done?
22:40:10  <peter1138> or was there an update?
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22:43:36  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, I did V2
22:45:23  <Coutal> is a p3/1133mhz with 640m enough to run 500 trains, or should i expect poor performance?
22:46:03  <peter1138> should be fine
22:46:33  <Born_Acorn> peter1138!
22:47:05  <eekee> ooo o.o
22:47:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Coutal: make sure you don't use NPF, use YAPF instead (in nightly)
22:47:56  <peter1138> i can't code that!
22:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can easily use the coop savegames to test ;)
22:48:08  <Born_Acorn> Lakie is, apparently
22:48:18  <Born_Acorn> But he's busy with patchwork!
22:48:32  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: it is a coop save...
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22:48:50  <Coutal> i loaded the same game locally and it runs gret
22:48:52  <Coutal> great even
22:49:01  <Coutal> but i keep on getting disconnected - 'connection lost'
22:49:42  <Coutal> that's real weird
22:49:54  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: where are the parts?
22:50:49  <Born_Acorn>
22:53:38  <Born_Acorn> A lot more sprites in there. :p
22:54:06  <peter1138> hmm
22:54:12  <peter1138> your far sprites are wrong
22:54:43  <peter1138> for the double track station
22:55:13  <peter1138> the blue top bit needs to be separated
22:55:23  <peter1138> (and the glass)
22:55:49  <Born_Acorn> From the platform, you mean?
22:55:57  <peter1138> yes
22:56:10  * Born_Acorn diddles with it
22:56:22  <peter1138> but your coder should've told you that ;)
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22:57:57  * Born_Acorn wonders if Lakie even looked. :(
23:02:34  <Coutal> i keep getting disconnected due to "connection lost". i have fair network performance to that server, and since i can connect i presume no firewalling is in place. what else could go wrong?
23:02:34  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:02:34  <peter1138> Coutal: does it disconnect when paused?
23:02:34  <Coutal> peter1138: if i noted correctly, yes, it does
23:03:59  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
23:07:47  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, V1 has the platforms and the tube in the same sprite, though?
23:07:54  * Born_Acorn just noticed
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23:10:13  <Darkvater> hmm
23:10:18  <Darkvater> why would gcc warn about
23:10:32  <Darkvater> int *i; const int *j;
23:10:33  <Darkvater> if (&i == &j) bla
23:10:42  <Darkvater> warning: comparison of distinct pointer types lacks a cast
23:10:51  <Darkvater> can I not promote pointers to const or what?
23:11:00  <Gorre> result of my last hour work:
23:11:28  <Darkvater> :O
23:11:29  <Darkvater> nice
23:11:34  <Darkvater> a bit small ;p
23:11:37  <Sacro> Gorre: thats nice, it looks like that casino
23:11:44  <Sacro> that one in vegas...
23:11:46  <Sacro> the bellagio?
23:12:19  <Gorre> well ... its should be a company hq ..
23:12:20  <eekee> oo shiney
23:13:02  <Gorre> Darkvater: matter of scale
23:14:57  <Darkvater> no I meant this were my HQ I'd want a big f' building :)
23:15:49  <Darkvater> hmm I gotta ask tron about my gcc warnings tomorrow
23:15:51  <Darkvater> gn all :)
23:15:55  <Darkvater> Gorre: great job though!
23:16:41  <Sacro> Gorre: why does yor colon have a line under it?
23:17:04  <Gorre> you can add some new floors quite easily
23:17:41  <Gorre> Sacro: some kind of wicked nick completion
23:18:56  <Gorre> and im not a programmer and finding what exactly is causing it in this 300kb TCL file is not a piece of cake for me ...
23:19:44  <Gorre> Darkvater: (thanks)
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23:20:50  <peter1138> Darkvater: no
23:21:44  <Coutal> i'm getting poor connectivity even with an empty map
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23:21:49  *** YogSothoth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:22:18  <eekee> Coutal: You using wireless?
23:22:24  <Coutal> no
23:22:30  <eekee> oh~
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23:24:29  <Coutal> i'm taking a packet capture now
23:24:35  <Coutal> i'll see if that gives me any insights
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23:32:15  <Coutal> i have a packet capture now
23:32:21  <Coutal> is it of any use to anyone?
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23:33:14  <Coutal> the network goes pretty smooth until it's dropped
23:33:24  <Coutal> a spurious retransmission here and there, nothing special
23:39:07  <Sacro> !calc ?^?
23:39:09  <_42_> Sacro: (standard_in) 2: illegal character: ^^;(standard_in) 2: parse error;(standard_in) 2: illegal character: ^^;
23:39:27  <Sacro> !calc ?/0
23:39:27  <_42_> Sacro: (standard_in) 2: illegal character: ^^;(standard_in) 2: parse error;
23:39:39  <lws1984> lol Sacro fails it
23:44:06  <Naksu> !calc 100/0
23:44:07  <_42_> Naksu: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=7): Divide by zero;
23:45:20  <Sacro> !calc sqrt(1)
23:45:22  <_42_> Sacro: 1;
23:45:25  <Sacro> !calc sqrt(-1)
23:45:25  <_42_> Sacro: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=4): Square root of a negative number;
23:46:45  <KUDr> !calc 10^123
23:46:46  <_42_> KUDr: 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000;
23:47:12  <KUDr> !calc 234!
23:47:13  <_42_> KUDr: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
23:47:51  <KUDr> !calc 10^456
23:47:51  <eekee> :)
23:47:51  <_42_> KUDr: 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000;
23:48:23  <Zevensoft> !calc (0/0)/(0/0)
23:48:26  <_42_> Zevensoft: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=3): Divide by zero;
23:48:32  <Zevensoft> lol
23:49:23  <Sacro> someone calc 4*a(1) :p
23:50:23  <Sacro> !calc 4*a(1)
23:50:23  <_42_> Sacro: 3.1415926532;
23:50:26  <Sacro> aww :(
23:50:45  <eekee> dude
23:50:59  <Sacro> sweet
23:51:19  <eekee> ^^;
23:51:21  <Zevensoft> !calc lim(h->0) ((3+h)^2+2-3^2+2)/((3+h)-3)
23:51:21  <_42_> Zevensoft: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
23:51:25  <Zevensoft> hrm
23:51:29  <Sacro> thats an evil on
23:51:29  <Sacro> e
23:52:12  <Zevensoft> !calc (5-4)-1
23:52:13  <_42_> Zevensoft: 0;
23:52:22  <Zevensoft> hrm excel fails that one
23:52:50  <eekee> O.o
23:52:52  <Zevensoft> it returns 1e-243
23:53:04  <Sacro> wtf :\
23:53:26  <eekee> oh,. rounding error
23:53:39  <Zevensoft> yea
23:54:08  <Zevensoft> hrm it seems they fixed it lately
23:54:16  <Zevensoft> I recall excel 97 had that bug
23:54:56  <Zevensoft> !calc (1/9)*9
23:54:57  <_42_> Zevensoft: .9999999999;
23:55:02  * Sacro tries Ooo calc
23:55:04  <Zevensoft> heheh
23:55:09  <Sacro> !calc 3/3*3
23:55:09  <_42_> Sacro: 3.0000000000;
23:55:13  <Sacro> !calc 93/3)*3
23:55:15  <_42_> Sacro: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
23:55:17  <eekee> I could get rounding errors out of a scientific calculator I had once. Certain sums would show as 0, but you multiplied by 10^12 & you'd see the error
23:55:18  <Sacro> !calc (3/3)*3
23:55:19  <_42_> Sacro: 3.0000000000;
23:55:25  <Sacro> :o
23:55:30  <Sacro> !calc (10/3)*3
23:55:31  <_42_> Sacro: 9.9999999999;
23:55:49  <eekee> Or no, it was things that would come out as 1 after division. Subtract the 1 & see the rounding error
23:56:08  <Zevensoft> wow, excel 2003 actually returns 1 for (1/9)*9
23:56:21  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish]
23:56:27  <eekee> ^^;
23:56:45  <Zevensoft> you can even do a filldown just adding 1/9 and it will end up as one
23:58:56  <Zevensoft> !calc (1-1/9)*(8/9)
23:58:57  <_42_> Zevensoft: .7901234567;
23:59:02  <Zevensoft> !calc (1-1/9)*(10/9)
23:59:03  <_42_> Zevensoft: .9876543209;
23:59:17  <Zevensoft> !calc (1-1/9)*(9/8)
23:59:19  <_42_> Zevensoft: 1.0000000000;
23:59:31  <Zevensoft> heheh
23:59:45  <Sionide> what the
23:59:49  <Sionide> what does excel get wrong?
23:59:54  <Sionide> (5-4)-1 ?
23:59:59  <Zevensoft> back in excel 97

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