Log for #openttd on 26th November 2006:
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02:30:37  <SpComb> Logs:
02:30:37  <tormentum> !logs
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06:50:33  <d0zer> hello
06:50:37  <d0zer> somebody here?
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06:53:10  <d0zer> Hello
06:54:17  <ThePizzaKing> Hello
06:57:02  <d0zer> do you know something about OPen TTD?
06:57:13  <d0zer> i want know how i can but things more cost
06:58:18  <ThePizzaKing> Make things cost more?
06:58:22  <d0zer> yes
06:59:07  <ThePizzaKing> There's an option for that in the Difficulty settings
06:59:19  <ThePizzaKing> "Cost of construction"
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07:02:04  <robocamping> helo TPK
07:02:17  <ThePizzaKing> hello robocamping
07:02:25  *** robocamping is now known as roboboy
07:02:30  <roboboy> silly me
07:03:09  <kratt2> ok ill try
07:03:22  * roboboy was at waratah which is a venturer camp here
07:03:39  <ThePizzaKing> was it fun?
07:03:49  <roboboy> yep
07:04:02  <roboboy> we had to build a raft and find gold
07:04:09  <roboboy> my unit came second
07:04:53  <ThePizzaKing> didn't find enough gold then?
07:05:16  <roboboy> partly
07:05:44  <roboboy> but the unit that one started looking for gold beore we were aloud to start looking
07:06:21  <ThePizzaKing> so the moral of the story is "Cheat and you'll always win"
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07:08:55  <roboboy> heh
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07:16:12  <kratt2> damn
07:16:18  <kratt2> how i can create my own server
07:16:27  <kratt2> my ports are mapped but this dont work
07:16:33  <kratt2> can somebody test my server?
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10:33:06  * roboboy attacks ThePizzaKing with an automatic bollard
10:33:46  * ThePizzaKing does something in response
10:34:10  <Wolf01> ello
10:34:23  <roboboy> ello
10:35:01  <roboboy> what shall you do
10:37:20  * ThePizzaKing jumps around in a circle, just because he can
10:38:39  <roboboy> heh
10:39:39  <roboboy> whats the vegie skin camp tingie in Victoria
10:39:58  <roboboy> the one thats the equivelent of dragon skin in NSW
10:40:37  <ThePizzaKing> I've never gone on it before
10:40:49  <ThePizzaKing> so I'm not really sure
10:41:04  <ThePizzaKing> Plus I've just finished Venturers as I'm now 18
10:42:01  <roboboy> ok
10:42:17  <roboboy> i started abouit two terms ago
10:42:27  <roboboy> are you going to rovers
10:42:48  * Bjarni wonders how long ago OpenTTD was mentioned in #openttd
10:42:54  <Bjarni> feels like ages ago
10:43:21  <Bjarni> I can remember when this channel was about gaming and developing. Now it's... I have no idea
10:43:23  <roboboy> i havent mentioned TTD in a few days
10:43:43  <hylje> :>
10:43:57  <roboboy> ive been camping
10:44:13  <SpComb> camper!
10:44:19  * SpComb goes to play CS, hopefully
10:44:24  <Bjarni> hopefully not in CS
10:44:44  <Bjarni> or whatever that WWII game is called
10:44:47  <Bjarni> never played it
10:46:30  <ln-> Bjarni: better start kicking off-topic people.
10:46:41  <Bjarni> yeah
10:47:35  <Bjarni> or mentioning this made all off topic talk die
10:47:43  <Bjarni> so it's a win-win :D
10:48:33  <ln-> although talking about development is a little like giving a live commentary on wet paint drying on the wall...
10:48:47  <roboboy> not always
10:48:59  <roboboy> i find it interesting sometimes
10:49:03  <ln-> not always, but on this particular channel yes.
10:49:36  <edeca> Are the "patch settings" per game?
10:49:51  <edeca> I don't know if they reset when I updated nightlies or when I started a new game
10:50:17  <Bjarni> patch settings are stored in your config file and should hopefully not be reset when updating
10:50:27  <edeca> I update into a new directory, sorry
10:50:32  <edeca> I should have been clearer there.
10:50:39  <edeca> And sometimes I forget to copy the .cfg ;)
10:50:47  <Bjarni> ...
10:51:06  <hylje> OH, REALLY?
10:51:26  <edeca> But this time I had been playing a game with settings, then I started a new one and it seems to have forgotten them.  Strange :)
10:51:45  <Bjarni> "I removed the config file from the game dir and now the settings reverted to the default settings" <--- that's a serious bug
10:51:54  <Bjarni> it's unsolveable
10:52:04  <edeca> Yeah, but as I said, I didn't know if it was that or not.
10:52:06  <edeca> So I asked?
10:52:08  <edeca> Sheesh.
10:52:12  <Bjarni> :P
10:52:35  <Bjarni> why did you even decide to use a new dir?
10:53:01  <edeca> Well I play with the miniin, so I just unpack daily into a new dir.  Then when it doesn't work right, I go back to the previous day.
10:53:29  <roboboy> but you can go  back withought a new dir
10:53:39  <edeca> roboboy: How do you mean?
10:53:52  <Bjarni> store the zip files
10:53:58  <edeca> Ah, yes, that's not a bad idea really
10:54:05  <roboboy> theres a link on the nightly page somewere
10:54:16  <edeca> I just wrote a little script to do it.
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10:55:31  <edeca> Well in the miniin I'm playing, if you start a new game (abandon, start new one) it looses the patch settings.  Then if you go back to a save, they're there again.  I know that it's not an openttd issue though because I'm not playing with the official one ;)
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10:56:49  <roboboy> gnight
10:57:04  * roboboy folds out the bed and locks it into position.
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11:01:17  <Nigel> Belugas_Gone, hmmm, gimme a yell when you return
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11:07:36  <Rubidium> Nigel: nice timing...
11:08:05  <Nigel> haha
11:08:08  <Nigel> i curse people
11:08:28  <Nigel> lets try it on someone else...
11:08:39  <Nigel> Rubidium, hmmm, gimme a yell when you return
11:10:02  <Rubidium> you haven't heard it?
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11:26:22  <Nigel> :P
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13:29:43  <Ailure> hmm
13:29:54  <Ailure> what was the max amount of units a station can have of a cargo?
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13:48:50  <HMage> from - looks like your build farm misses
13:49:00  <HMage> from - looks like your build farm misses 'as' for win32 cross-compiler.
13:49:45  <HMage> did that happen after orudge's servers went massively offline (taking ttforums offline too)?
13:49:52  <Rubidium> HMage: known issue; upgrade of the compile farm went bad :(
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13:50:17  <HMage> hardware upgrade?
13:50:24  <Rubidium> software
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14:34:10  <DannyA> Does anyone know if openTTD can be run in a VMware 5.1 with similar performace to running it on the host? When I tired the other day it was slow, I think coz the VM didn't have directX support.
14:34:48  <Progman> directX? i thought it used SDL
14:35:21  <hylje> directdraw
14:35:26  <hylje> and why VM'd ottd
14:35:44  <DannyA> Whats SDL?, I only know that the vms don't support graphics hardware accell...
14:35:54  <DannyA> Development
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14:36:21  <ln-> VMware does... but why are you running it in a vm in the first place?
14:37:21  <DannyA> Because I want to run it from visual studio in debug mode, and the visual studio install on my PC is screwed.
14:39:53  <lolman> Reinstall it?
14:41:05  <DannyA> I would rather have a seperate development environment in a vm, so it doesn't interfere with anything else and visa versa.
14:41:54  <DannyA> ln- What do you mean VMWare does...?
14:43:44  <DannyA> I saw on the website there was experimental support for some sort of hardware accelleration, and a switch in the config file to enable it, but it did not work with my version.
14:44:22  <DannyA> What I wanted to know is if this is required for it to run normally, or if it may be something else?
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14:50:33  <ln-> DannyA: vmware does support 3d acceleration.
14:50:44  <hylje> :o
14:50:51  <hylje> how much overhead
14:51:30  <CIA-2> truelight * r7259 /compile_farm/ (controller/configure controller/rules utf8/):
14:51:30  <CIA-2> [CompileFarm] -Remove: utf8 is merged, so no longer compile
14:51:30  <CIA-2> [CompileFarm] -Change: as we switched to nptlonly glibc, i386 is no longer a possible target on linux. Switches to i686 as minimum target (and host-cc)
14:51:52  <ln-> utf8 is merged??!?
14:53:37  <hylje> yes
14:54:29  <Bjarni> you didn't notice?
14:54:51  <Bjarni> maybe it's because it just works ;)
14:55:04  <ln-> i didn't because i've been away from here for a week.
14:55:38  <lolman> I didn't notice because I'd been away for a month :P
14:55:44  <Zevensoft> why no i386, doesnt this exclude celerons?
14:56:03  <lolman> Zevensoft, no, celerons were introduced with the Pentium 2, which is i686
14:56:08  <Zevensoft> ah right
14:56:19  <Zevensoft> so only the i586 has to worry
14:56:25  <Zevensoft> which no one has really
14:56:35  <Zevensoft> carry on
14:56:43  <hylje> ottd doesnt even really run on sub-pentium
14:56:51  <lolman> Yeah, and that's the Pentium 1, which would likely be running Win95/DOS/CLI Linux, and therefore would have no real use for OTTD :P
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14:57:37  <glx> anyway most linux users know how to compile so they can make the i386 build if they need it :)
14:57:44  <lolman> Yeah :)
14:58:03  <lolman> Did 32bpp get merged too?
14:58:14  <ln-> i know a processor that is fast enough to run OTTD but is not i686.
14:58:14  <glx> not finished yet
14:58:25  <ln-> via eden.
14:59:01  <Zevensoft> I hope not
15:00:59  <lolman> ln-, it looks i686 to has SSE instructions
15:02:31  <DannyA> ln- Perhaps the new server versions do, but old versions of workstation cirtainly don't. I don't think it works in the version I'm using which is pretty recent, but it may be due to hardware.
15:03:41  <Zevensoft> i686 excludes the K6-2
15:04:05  <ln-> "Vorher war es nötig, Software für C3-CPUs für Pentium-Architektur zu kompilieren, da der C3 die mit dem i686-Standard eingeführte Familie der cmov-Instruktionen nicht beherrschte. cmov (conditional move, dient zur Vermeidung von Sprüngen) war zwar die vielleicht wichtigste Neuerung im i686-Standard, war aber dennoch ein optionaler Teil der i686-Spezifikation."
15:06:46  <lolman> That's the C3, not the Eden :o
15:07:40  <Zevensoft> I wonder though how many still use K6-2s
15:07:49  <ln-> ok
15:09:14  <Tuzlo> K6-2 computer?
15:09:18  <Zevensoft> cpu
15:09:22  <Tuzlo> I got one
15:09:38  <Tuzlo> gonna debianize it and let the kids have it
15:10:17  <Zevensoft> yeah but I dont think the new ottd will compile on it
15:10:41  <lolman> # sixth generation - first member is Pentium Pro (and derivatives, including Pentium M and Core), later appeared 6x86, K6, C3, Crusoe <From Wikipedia...dunno how accurate it is
15:10:46  <glx> Zevensoft: i386 support is just removed from compile farm
15:11:01  <glx> not for openttd source
15:11:09  <Zevensoft> oh
15:11:13  <Tuzlo> K6-2 is i586 isnt it?
15:11:14  <Zevensoft> right
15:11:21  <Zevensoft> sorta
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15:11:42  <Zevensoft> the 3dnow instructions distance it from a strict x86 archetecture
15:12:01  <Zevensoft> its like the cell instructions on the ppc64 arch
15:12:36  <Zevensoft> speaking of which, I wonder when we'll see ottd on ps3 :O
15:13:04  <lolman> :o
15:13:31  <lolman> As soon as someone gets their hands on a PS3, shoves YDL on it and ports OTTD
15:13:33  <lolman> :P
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15:14:10  <Zevensoft> first 2 have come to pass
15:14:14  <Zevensoft> well
15:14:18  <Zevensoft> it was fedora 5
15:14:20  <Zevensoft> but still
15:22:33  <lolman> lol
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15:23:22  <Zevensoft> at least emulation is on the ps3 long before the wii lol
15:24:02  <lolman> And on the PC looooooong before either of them :P
15:24:48  <Zevensoft> true
15:25:24  <ln->
15:25:29  <ln->
15:27:37  <helb> LOL
15:28:54  <Bjarni> now that's realistic. Tell NASA to do that since such a plane is cheaper to launch than their space shuttles
15:29:54  <hylje> realistic physics ftt
15:29:59  <Tuzlo> hah
15:30:19  <Tuzlo> should be an ad for the shuttle replacement
15:30:47  <Zevensoft> how is that even possible
15:30:54  <lolman> It isn't lol
15:30:56  <Zevensoft> in something with simulator in the title
15:31:02  <lolman> Oh
15:31:04  <lolman> Erm
15:31:07  <lolman> Crap simulator :P
15:31:18  <Zevensoft> someones changed the mass property of the shuttle methinks
15:31:52  <ln-> well obviously it's not a simulator mainly for simulating towing heavy objects.
15:31:56  <Zevensoft> or added it themselves, considering I cant think of a reason thered be a shuttle in a flight simulator
15:32:31  <Zevensoft> it reminds me of battlefield vietnam
15:32:32  <ln-> you are wrong.
15:32:36  <Zevensoft> dropping tanks in
15:32:50  <Zevensoft> how am I?
15:32:59  <ln-> with this simulator, you can perform a full re-entry with a space shuttle.
15:33:03  <Zevensoft> considering I havent stated anything to be considered in that terms
15:33:27  <Zevensoft> I just I couldnt think of a reason, not that there was none
15:36:07  <lolman> X-Plane has the shuttle in
15:36:14  <lolman> :)
15:36:30  <Sacro> orbiter ftw
15:36:59  <lolman> Oh Noes...
15:37:11  <ln-> by a strange coincidence, those screenshots are from X-Plane.
15:37:16  <Sacro> :o Bjarni and lolman together
15:37:26  <lolman> Heh
15:37:36  * Sacro 's head asplodes
15:37:46  * lolman 's head implodes
15:38:40  <Bjarni> damn, and now I'm the only one left to clean up the mess :(
15:38:57  <CIA-2> miham * r7260 /trunk/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
15:38:57  <CIA-2> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-11-26 16:36:43
15:38:57  <CIA-2> brazilian_portuguese - 40 changed by tucalipe (40)
15:38:57  <CIA-2> bulgarian - 2 fixed by kokobongo (2)
15:38:57  <CIA-2> catalan - 4 changed by arnaullv (4)
15:38:58  <CIA-2> croatian - 168 fixed, 46 deleted, 18 changed by blozo (232)
15:38:58  <CIA-2> swedish - 4 fixed by daishan (4)
15:39:53  <ln-> MiHaMiX: where is the russian translation?
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15:41:48  <Bjarni>
15:42:15  <Sacro> i dont recall that one
15:43:14  <Bjarni> that's because it's like a minute old :P
15:43:34  <Sacro> roffles
15:43:44  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: ^^^
15:44:29  <lolman> Hehehe
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15:49:56  <Zevensoft> lol "<Lupin> I ? unicode."
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15:54:48  <ln-> where is the russian translation?
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16:13:35  <Darkvater> 'ello
16:14:20  <lolman> Ello :)
16:14:28  <Darkvater> does anyone have experience with unicows? Can't get it to work :(
16:15:19  <Bjarni> wtf is unicows?
16:15:35  <Bjarni> (you can read that as a no from me)
16:15:36  <Darkvater> google? you obviously have no experience with it :)
16:15:55  <Darkvater> it adds unicode support for win95/98/ME
16:17:37  <Bjarni> ok, I have never heard about it and I will most likely never need it
16:18:36  <Darkvater> it's windows ^
16:22:06  <Bjarni> see
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16:22:10  <Bjarni> I will never need it
16:22:14  * TrueBrain pokes Bjarni
16:22:21  <Bjarni> I don't plan on starting to use win95
16:22:30  <TrueBrain> please add in topic: Nightlies offline for some days
16:22:34  <TrueBrain> or anything remotely like it
16:22:35  <Bjarni> ok
16:22:55  <Darkvater> ey TrueBrain :)
16:22:57  <Darkvater> like ya nick
16:23:00  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.8 | Nightly builds offline for some days | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
16:23:02  <TrueBrain> me 2 :p
16:23:11  * TrueBrain pokes orudge
16:23:29  <TrueBrain> you around orudge? :)
16:24:38  <TrueBrain> doh :p
16:24:42  <orudge> Yup
16:24:45  <TrueBrain> ah :)
16:24:49  <TrueBrain> else I had to join quakenet myself :p
16:24:53  <orudge> :p
16:25:04  <TrueBrain> please tell patchman that the nightlies of ttdpatch are offline for some days too... I fucked something up on the compile-farm
16:25:06  <Darkvater> ey braino, does newest amsn work for you?
16:25:17  <TrueBrain> therefor most targets, but most of all, win32, fail badly :p
16:25:24  <Darkvater> I upped to 0.96...
16:25:26  <Darkvater> tfarago@arrakis:~/Desktop> amsn
16:25:26  <Darkvater> Floating point exception
16:25:43  <TrueBrain> I still have 0.95
16:25:51  <TrueBrain> and I keep on doing that till Gentoo tells me 0.96 is stable
16:25:52  <orudge> TrueBrain: OK, done
16:25:56  <TrueBrain> orudge: tnx :)
16:26:13  * lolman is running 0.95, considering updating
16:26:13  <TrueBrain> it should be working tomorrow or something, depending on how much time I can free :p
16:26:17  <Bjarni> hmm
16:26:23  <orudge> OK then
16:26:25  <Bjarni> interesting way of finding online people
16:26:33  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: are you online right now?
16:26:35  <Bjarni> :P
16:26:37  * Bjarni hides
16:26:47  * TrueBrain kicks Bjarni HARD
16:27:07  <lolman> :o
16:27:14  <Bjarni> you can't.... I'm hiding
16:27:16  * lolman comes to Bjarni's rescue
16:27:26  <Bjarni> you can't kick something you don't know where is
16:27:49  <TrueBrain> sorry, but that smell really gives you away
16:27:55  <Darkvater> 0wnd!
16:28:12  <TrueBrain> anyway, tnx for the message relays ;)
16:28:20  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
16:28:36  <Bjarni> lol
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16:29:40  <Bjarni> oh that reminds me. British Airways refused a passenger, who smelled so bad that other passengers complained and now the court stated that he had to pay the hotel bill himself (one he got because it was the last flight)
16:30:03  <Bjarni> imagine being kicked off a plane for being foul smelling
16:30:32  <orudge> Heh
16:30:34  <Bjarni> oh before he was kicked off, he was ordered to go wash himself, but he refused to do that
16:30:42  <orudge> That must be fun.
16:31:20  <Bjarni> well, it's less fun to sit next to a guy like that all the way from California to England
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16:37:03  *** mode/#openttd [+nt] by ChanServ
16:37:11  * orudge slaps the services
16:37:36  <lolman> lmao
16:39:52  <Darkvater>
16:39:52  <Bjarni> <-- speaking about washing yourself XD
16:39:57  * Darkvater needs an XBOX360
16:40:54  <Bjarni> why? You want something that's more buggy than your windows 9x?
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16:41:25  <Darkvater> no cause gow is so fuckin awesome
16:41:43  <Bjarni> it is?
16:42:00  <Darkvater> yes
16:42:06  <Bjarni> all I saw of it was a page where people had take pictures of it crashing
16:42:14  <Bjarni> it was like 2 days after they were released
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16:43:29  <Darkvater> ..
16:43:30  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk:
16:43:32  <Darkvater> ping-pong
16:43:41  <Darkvater> who else is windows...
16:43:43  <Darkvater> HMage: ?
16:43:47  <KUDr> at your service, my lord
16:43:56  <helb> :)
16:44:00  <Darkvater> you failed to greet me!
16:44:10  * Darkvater is very disappointed
16:44:12  <KUDr> hello master
16:44:31  <Darkvater> I demand seppuku
16:44:48  <KUDr> well, then i can't help you
16:44:51  <Darkvater> :)
16:45:19  <Darkvater> KUDr: are you even slightly familiar with unicows and MLSU?
16:45:33  <Bjarni> hi KUDr
16:45:36  <Bjarni> nice to see you
16:45:51  <KUDr> unified cow management as new advanced farming method?
16:46:01  <KUDr> hi Bjarni
16:46:05  <Darkvater> I see you are not familiar :)
16:46:10  <Darkvater> ms layer for unicode
16:46:13  <KUDr> correct
16:46:27  <KUDr> it is Win98 thing i never needed to know
16:46:46  <KUDr> why do you need it?
16:47:00  <KUDr> nobody supports Win98
16:47:04  <Darkvater> cause unless I cannot get it to work 0.5 won't work on winme/98/95
16:47:13  <KUDr> hmm
16:47:40  <Darkvater> well it works now, but not if I add complete unicode support
16:47:43  <HMage> what *W() functions will 0.5 use?
16:48:22  <Darkvater> GetCurrentDirectoryW, FindFirstFileW/FindNextFileW/FindClose, MultiByteToWideChar/WideCharToMultiByte
16:49:07  <HMage> why not wcstombs and findfirst?
16:49:13  <KUDr> Darkvater: then load those functions dynamically and if it fails then use A functions
16:49:24  <HMage> they behave practically the same
16:49:50  <Darkvater> HMage: I would love to but I use that 'strange' directories get converted to ????
16:50:06  <HMage> Darkvater: wfindfirst()
16:50:06  <Darkvater> that would mean you cannot put openttd in directories containing unicode (non-ascii) folders
16:50:10  <HMage> look up on msdn
16:50:52  <Darkvater> HMage: and how does that help? :)
16:50:52  <HMage> oh, that still won't work on win98 without unicows
16:50:58  <KUDr> i yhink that unicode crt functions don't work with unicode
16:51:03  <Darkvater> it's not even supported on 95/98, not even with unicows
16:51:07  <HMage> they work with unicode perfectly
16:51:39  <HMage> microsoft just wants you to use platform sdk instead of platform-independent crt
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16:52:12  <Darkvater> well anyways, if they don't work it doesn't matter. the SDK would work with unicows if I could get it to work
16:52:34  <Darkvater> I add the .lib file but when I run it, it doesn't care if the dll file is present or not, and fails either way
16:52:53  <KUDr> hmm
16:53:02  <Darkvater> or I'm doing something wrong of course
16:53:16  <Darkvater> the funny part is: VS2005 programs don't even run on win95, never ever
16:53:18  <KUDr> try to load it dynamically
16:53:35  <Darkvater> kernel32.dll is missing some isdebuggerpresent() function
16:53:48  <Darkvater> KUDr: the whole point of unicows is not to make changes to the actual code
16:53:56  <Darkvater> if I start doing that, I don't need unicows
16:54:35  <HMage> yep, use platform sdk, but please try to minimize amount of conversions between unicode and back. because unicows does that internally too (win98 is codepage-based system)
16:54:54  <KUDr> our XD client (some older version) also supported unicows and i only remember that there was big part of code dedicated to it
16:55:21  <HMage> the loader in the .lib will not load the .dll if the system doesn't need it during startup
16:55:30  <HMage> so you need to test that on win98
16:55:47  <Darkvater> well conversions would only be used for file access, eg saving/loading data files
16:56:13  <HMage> afair other unicode functions are for savegames too
16:56:34  <HMage> you actually don't need to convert to multibyte since there are wfopen() and such too
16:56:55  <SpComb> <-- how temporary is this temporary?
16:56:57  <Darkvater> HMage: what do you mean? A program won't load unicows.dll if windows95 doesn't need it on boot?
16:57:06  <HMage> you tested that on windows95?
16:57:14  <Darkvater> yes, 98 and 95
16:57:20  <Darkvater> vmware rules :)
16:57:28  <HMage> ah, I wrote that in thought you tried to do that on winnt
16:58:03  <Darkvater> HMage: well I convert the widechar input from the FS into utf8 for internal representation (display, etc.) and then back when you need it
16:58:24  <Darkvater> win2k/winxp work perfectly of course, but that was not the subject of my problem :(
16:59:18  <Darkvater> Technically speaking I could keep the widechar variables in wide format, but that would require quite a few preprocessor magic throughout the code
16:59:38  <HMage> why not handle everything in utf16 and just keep the data as utf8 during inter-process exchange?
16:59:40  <Darkvater> and even then win95/98 won't work without unicows, unless they get a special compile/release
17:00:04  <HMage> well, I didn't try unicows myself, unfortunately, MSDN states it should work automagically
17:00:22  <HMage> do you have unicows.dll in the same directory of the executable?
17:00:41  <Darkvater> no, I had it in windows\system and windows\system32
17:00:42  <HMage> lots of EA and Vivendi games come with unicows.dll in the same dir as the .exe
17:01:24  <Darkvater> the funny part is that even though win95 has not unicode support out of the box, the funcion calls just work..... so I donnu, some wide functions or stubs or something do exist
17:01:43  <HMage> oh, did you define UNICODE in msvc build?
17:02:18  <Darkvater> no, that was the whole point of not doing it. I only explicitly state the W-functions I need
17:02:39  <Darkvater> I should?
17:02:55  <HMage> I don't know. I suspect there's some preprocessor magic in windows headers.
17:03:02  <Darkvater> you might be right though; could be logical
17:03:06  <Darkvater> I'll test it at home
17:03:26  <Darkvater> just have to see which functions windows automagically converts to wide-version
17:04:07  <HMage> all of the platform sdk ones, i guess
17:04:21  <Darkvater> and I must say MSDN really sucks about unicode; they keep talking about defining _UNICODE while that doesn't work and it should be UNICODE
17:04:24  <HMage> might be not worth the hassle of declaring it
17:04:30  <Darkvater> or the other way around, donnu exactly anymore
17:04:37  <Darkvater> well it might be worth a try
17:04:39  <HMage> well, msvc6 defines UNICODE
17:04:47  <Darkvater> and I can always force the Ansi version
17:05:19  <HMage> somewhere in the headers, _UNICODE is defined if UNICODE is defined
17:05:29  <Darkvater> :s
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17:05:50  * HMage loves how often microsoft changes their standards
17:06:06  <HMage> it was snprintf once, now it's _snprintf
17:06:11  <HMage> and so on
17:06:31  <HMage> oh yeah, it's ansi, you just need to put 10000s of underscores
17:06:38  <HMage> </rant>
17:06:51  <Darkvater> we love'em don't we :)
17:07:02  <ln-> ansi?
17:07:17  <HMage> ln-: ANSI C standard
17:07:33  <HMage> defines functions and their behaviour too as far as I know
17:07:53  <ln-> hmm, ok snprintf() is indeed ISO C99, but not ANSI C89
17:07:59  <HMage>
17:08:27  <HMage> yeah, but somehow they manage to keep up to the letter of the standard that way, that nobody will be interested in using it
17:09:18  <HMage> I already know three fwrite to WriteFile converts, they said it's less hassle, now they say they can't go back - lots of code to change.
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17:12:44  <Darkvater> ok people, have to leave you again sadly :(. I'll be back around...hmm; I think midnighty-ish
17:13:02  <HMage> ok, have fun Darkvater :)
17:13:10  <Darkvater> hope to :)
17:20:21  <HMage> Darkvater: late news, but still - "By adding the UNICOWS.LIB to the link command-line before KERNEL32.LIB, ADVAPI32.LIB, or any other supported Win32 system link library, the linker will resolve referenced symbols with the one provided by UNICOWS.LIB instead." - wikipedia
17:20:59  <ln->
17:22:32  <HMage> eeek
17:23:45  <HMage> also -
17:24:14  <HMage> "The Microsoft Layer for Unicode (MSLU or Unicows) is a DLL (unicows.dll) and import library (unicows.lib) distributed by Microsoft which allows a single 32-bit unicode application to run on versions of Microsoft Windows which do not natively support unicode applications (95, 98 and ME). The Microsft library is unsurprisingly distributed under a licence which is not compatible with open source software (b)."
17:24:30  <HMage> "(b) Mozilla bug 239279, Need Mozilla binary that supports Windows unicode API."
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18:12:06  <kampasky> Recently, they announced a re-release of The Settlers II with updated graphics and gameplay to be available in autumn 2006.
18:12:10  <kampasky> darn :((
18:12:28  <kampasky> and I kind of hoped the legal situation would be similarily friendly as in case of ttd :(
18:15:55  *** HMage` [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
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18:20:56  <kampasky> (but hey, IDA is darn awesome)
18:25:14  <ln-> "similarly friendly"?
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18:27:01  <ln-> what's friendly about it?
18:29:01  <Nigel> kampasky, new Settlers II?
18:29:03  <Nigel> wow
18:29:09  <Nigel> that game was cool
18:41:52  <kampasky> ln-: that the vendor does not care about it at all
18:42:23  <kampasky> but the new settlers II seems so different that perhaps bluebyte wouldn't care *that* much either...
18:42:28  <kampasky> *shrug*
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19:04:43  <Nigel> kampasky, wait, are you talking about the official rerelease?
19:05:37  <Nigel> Settlers II: 10 Year Aniversery?
19:07:40  <ln-> kampasky: END OF DISCUSSION.
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19:12:39  <Nigel> EOD from me too. except maybe finding out what this new version is
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19:31:05  <kampasky> ln-: ?
19:31:27  <kampasky> Nigel: No, I'm talking about the good ole' DOS Settlers II.
19:32:04  <ln-> kampasky: legal situation is a forbidden topic. END OF DISCUSSION.
19:32:24  <kampasky> forbidden by who?
19:32:53  <kampasky> and forbiding it isn't really helping anything, but yes, we've mostly beaten that topic to death cca 2.5 to 2 years ago on this channel and forums ;)
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19:33:10  <Nigel> kampasky, no, but there is a PC "Settlers II: 10 year aniversery"
19:33:19  <kampasky> and saying 'END OF DISCUSSION.' is kind of rude, IMHO (FWIW)
19:33:41  <ln-> forbidden by someone whose nick i won't mention. but it was indeed forbidden with the words "END OF DISCUSSION".
19:34:03  <usv> hay guys, I need to know which environment variable I have to set to ALSA in order to get the music working again on linux
19:34:11  <usv> can't use google, slow link
19:34:22  <kampasky> I suppose he had reason to be rude then, esp. after a long flamewar (very likely in case of this topic ;)
19:34:28  <kampasky> do you have reason to be rude now?
19:35:06  <ln-> i'm not being rude, i'm just trying to save your trouble by ending the discussion.
19:35:06  <Tuzlo> has anyone seen the Autorenew vehicle working?
19:35:26  <Tuzlo> I have it set on mine, and it bsays cant do it money limit, but I have p[lenty of $$$
19:35:34  <kampasky> ln-: I see, thanks :) I suppose I still have the warm "ottd developer aura" feeling but yes, it's kind of faint by now ;-)
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19:36:50  <kampasky> Nigel: yes, but I was interested in that just because of the relation to the original Settlers II
19:37:22  <kampasky> Nigel: but it seems that (maybe for some AI bits or what not) it must be complete reimplementation perhaps with the same rules and UI style, judging by its look and also requirements
19:42:37  <usv> ah, export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=alsa
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20:36:21  <CIA-2> rubidium * r7261 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: configure support for SECOND_DATA_DIR and CUSTOM_LANG_DIR.
20:38:19  <CIA-2> rubidium * r7262 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( config.lib):
20:38:19  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Add: OSX application bundle support.
20:38:19  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Add: bundling of files needed for a (nightly) release into a single directory and compressed archives.
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21:09:49  <peter1138> evening
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21:17:12  <hylje> bug? can't build oil refineries or paper mills in subarctic
21:17:59  <hylje> in recent trunk, no newgrf
21:18:25  <peter1138> can't select to build or can't build?
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21:20:00  <peter1138> i can place oil refineries
21:20:06  <peter1138> it is however very picky where they are
21:21:56  <hylje> can you let us know the requisites
21:22:08  <Zaviori> 20 tiles from the edge of the map or something
21:22:10  <peter1138> close to the edge of the bad
21:22:12  <peter1138> bad?
21:22:12  <peter1138> map
21:22:27  <peter1138> and 1 level high
21:23:31  <hylje> hmm yes
21:23:39  <hylje> but paper mills?
21:23:59  <peter1138> dunno
21:25:11  <hylje> interesting
21:25:39  <hylje> in the revision/newgrf minus alpine, oil refineries cannot be built
21:25:51  <hylje> ottdcoop uses, that is
21:26:07  <hylje> but in the trunk it is possible
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21:46:31  <Bjarni> <-- not THAT kind of program :P
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22:08:43  <helb> gn
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22:34:34  <Ailure> hmm
22:34:39  <Ailure> I wonder how the cargo payment is calculated
22:39:14  <Rubidium> look at DeliverGoods in economy.c
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22:39:35  <Ailure> ah
22:39:41  <Ailure> thankfully I have the source
22:39:43  <Ailure> so I take a look
22:40:05  <Ailure> just wanted to do some research, that's all :P
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22:45:53  <Ailure> hmm
22:48:18  <Ailure> ./* zero the distance if it's the bank and very short transport. */
22:48:21  <Ailure> that's a odd special case
22:48:24  <Ailure> didn't know about it
22:50:35  <HMage`> a reality check to prevent transport from the same bank maybe (from truck cargo bay to cargo bay two, which is in the same bank)
22:50:46  <HMage`> at the same bank*
22:50:56  <Ailure> hmm
22:51:03  <Ailure> that makes sense but hmm
22:51:26  <Ailure> *starts openTTD and tries the infamous station walking trick with a bank*
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22:53:49  <Ailure> yeah
22:53:50  <Ailure> haha
22:53:52  <Ailure> it dosen't prevent that
22:54:01  <Ailure> kinda funny
22:54:55  <Ailure> after all
22:55:03  <Ailure> distance is calculated between the station signs
22:55:12  <Ailure> and not where the vehicle loaded and unloaded
22:55:20  <Bjarni> hmm
22:55:25  <Bjarni> that could be exploited
22:55:36  <CIA-2> rubidium * r7263 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib:
22:55:36  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: do not tell that SDL is and is not found when it is not found.
22:55:36  <CIA-2> [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: properly handle the case that no libfontconfig was been found.
22:55:37  <HMage`> station walking was fixed (the sign moves with the station while walking)
22:55:47  <Ailure> it is?
22:55:50  <HMage`> in r7169
22:55:53  <Ailure> heh well I hadn't tried out the latest nightly
22:55:59  <Ailure> still, that's good
22:56:04  <Bjarni> then you should just not delete the original tile
22:56:05  <HMage`> that's november 16
22:56:33  <HMage`> Bjarni: that limits to the station spread, station walk bug could let you ignore the station spread
22:56:39  <Ailure> ah
22:56:42  <Ailure> It's still possible
22:56:43  <Bjarni> yeah
22:56:44  <Ailure> just much more limited
22:56:53  <Bjarni> so it's not as exploitable as it used to be
22:56:55  <HMage`> I think you just won't get much money from it now
22:57:24  <Ailure> you can gain a decent amount
22:57:25  <Ailure> but not crazy
22:57:29  <CIA-2> rubidium * r7264 /branches/makefile_rewrite/config.lib: [MakefileRewrite] -Add: proper direct-music detection, no pseudo detection based on the OS.
22:57:33  <Bjarni> also you would have to be somewhat insane to move the tile say 800 tiles to make a 5 tile line, that pays like a 800 tile line
22:57:55  <Ailure> besides while I acknowledge station walking as exploit
22:58:01  <Ailure> I never abuse it as a exploit
22:58:08  <Ailure> I rarely care about gaining money, just as long it's profitable
22:58:18  <Ailure> sometimes I care more about getting the cargo transported
22:58:25  <HMage`> I didn't play multiplayer openttd for quite a time, is the exploit in wide use?
22:58:34  <Ailure> when people use it
22:58:39  <Ailure> it's mostly for showing it off or for fun
22:58:46  <Ailure> they don't overuse it from what I seen
22:59:04  <Ailure> since doing it on a large map is frankly annoying
22:59:23  <HMage`> I see. The competition spirit was destroyed in the game long before the exploit was discovered.
22:59:42  <Ailure> still, maybe someone should make a code that requires that the whole station is connected as one entity
22:59:48  <Bjarni> sometimes I use station walking to increase catchment area of say a train station next to a town. If the town is badly shaped, you can't build a decent sized station and cover say at least half of the town
22:59:52  <Ailure> this would make newstations filler more useful
22:59:59  <Ailure> and heh
23:00:02  <Ailure> bjarni, I gotta admit
23:00:04  <Ailure> I do the same
23:00:05  <Ailure> for the same reasons
23:00:32  <Ailure> although lately
23:00:33  <Bjarni> I think it's a thing that everybody does
23:00:40  <Ailure> I kinda tried to drop that habit
23:00:47  * HMage` prefers to play realistic, plan stategically places and sacrifice money and reputation for placing a station at the center of the city
23:00:53  <Ailure> and just make buses
23:01:00  <Ailure> that transfers passengers to the major station
23:01:12  <Ailure> I just wish TTD wasn't so... biased towards trains
23:01:34  <HMage`> buses need a boost, yeah
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23:01:39  <HMage`> ships need a heavy boost
23:01:51  <Ailure> compared to road vehicles
23:01:53  <Ailure> ships aren't that bad
23:01:57  <Ailure> I still use ships for alot of stuff
23:02:02  <Ailure> they're profitable, if not quite slow
23:02:11  <HMage`> hovercraft is nice
23:02:20  <Bjarni> this is one of the few places where SimuTrans got a better system. All their station tiles got a catchment area of two tiles in each direction. Due to cargo destinations, you can make a bus line though the town (with roadside stops) and drive all passengers to the station next to the town
23:02:23  <Ailure> I mostly use road vehicles for fun
23:02:27  <Ailure> so there's a bit of variety
23:02:28  <Bjarni> without exploiting anything
23:02:32  <Ailure> or transfering
23:02:40  <Ailure> ah
23:03:15  <Ailure> well, cargo destinations is on the roadmap though
23:03:18  <Ailure> for 0.6.0
23:03:21  <Ailure> if I remember right
23:03:21  <Bjarni> SimuTrans also got a decent signal system, but horrible train routing
23:03:47  <HMage`> yeah, it seems very unrealistic that, say, a power station would not refuse to pay for coal from a coal mine that's very far away, when another is a lot closer
23:04:03  <Bjarni> no, that can be realistic
23:04:08  <Bjarni> coal is not just coal
23:04:25  <Ailure> but if it's the exactly same type of coal?
23:04:33  <Bjarni> it never is :)
23:05:12  <HMage`> that's abstracted in the game
23:05:12  <Bjarni> coal is created out of living stuff and hence two blocks of coal can never be the same
23:05:29  <Bjarni> yeah, the game don't care about this
23:05:39  <Bjarni> it just states coal as coal
23:05:46  <Ailure> simplified it does make sense that longer transports costs more
23:05:49  <HMage`> according to that, the same coal mine would provide different coal each time, no?
23:05:53  <Ailure> and therefore the transport companies requires more pay
23:05:55  <wvx> it is? i thought coal was created when stars run out of other stuff :)
23:06:02  <Ailure> you have no control over how much you take for payment after all
23:06:29  <CIA-2> rubidium * r7265 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (. [MakefileRewrite] -Change: make the status messages of the bundle generation look like the ones of language and source compilation.
23:06:36  <HMage`> but since the power station won't close the next morning, the manager isn't brain dead to pay for that much if there's closer nearby
23:07:01  <Bjarni> coal is actually something where speed doesn't matter. You will get payment for each ton you transport (in real life)
23:07:03  <HMage`> maybe the city it's attached to doesn't have the budget
23:07:21  <Ailure> the game does reflect that kinda
23:07:25  <Ailure> coal is one of the goods ingame
23:07:29  <Ailure> that is profitable, even with slow transport
23:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> wvx: no, that's the Carbon atom, not the actual coal (which is a large molecule structure of carbon atoms)
23:07:41  <Bjarni> also payment drops if you transport it incorrectly. Today they cover the coal to prevent stuff like leaves from falling into the coal
23:07:44  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:08:29  <wvx> silly english language
23:08:30  <Ailure> I feel stupid though
23:08:37  <Ailure> in a recent game I forgot about electrifying tracks
23:08:39  <HMage`> how about making cities have a budget?
23:08:43  <Bjarni> Coal is formed from plant remains that have been compacted, hardened, chemically altered, and metamorphosed by heat and pressure over geologic time. <-- taken from wikipedia
23:08:45  <Ailure> and I as using the UKRS set
23:08:48  <Bjarni>
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23:09:10  <Ailure> so I thought the best freight train was Wardale 604
23:09:18  <Ailure> and not Al20, which almost have 2x the horse power
23:09:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's a similar difference in most languages i know...
23:10:00  <Ailure> Wouldn't that be true for any cargo Bjarni?
23:10:15  <Ailure> Passengers wouldn't be willing to pay as much for a rough ride as a smooth one :P
23:10:25  <Ailure> dear, I consider "passengers" as cargo
23:10:37  <Bjarni> so do I :P
23:10:39  <Ailure> OTTD does too..
23:10:39  <Ailure> lol
23:10:55  <Ailure> then, I jokingly measure them in litres
23:11:08  <HMage`> say, a huge city would have bigger budget and could afford paying more for a better quality of a product (and means of transport - we already have several types of wagons - cheap wagons will deteriorate the quality of the product faster)
23:11:14  <Ailure> since a train can go from 640 km/h to 0 km/h in a matter of milliseconds
23:11:27  <Bjarni> actually I was kidding. It's not a good thing to consider passengers cargo like you would with say coal
23:11:33  <Bjarni> specially not in real life
23:11:49  <HMage`> I know some companies that do
23:11:51  <Ailure> passengers have other requirments yeah
23:11:53  <Ailure> like
23:11:56  <Ailure> it probabl would be possible
23:11:58  <Bjarni> Ryanair
23:12:04  <Ailure> to make really fast cargo maglev trains
23:12:06  <Ailure> in vaccum tubes
23:12:08  <HMage`> Iberia
23:12:16  <Ailure> but same trains would make passengers unconsicous
23:12:30  <Ailure> unless they accelerate or deaccelerate slowly
23:12:57  <Bjarni> they should change speed with max ±0,5 G, then it would be ok
23:13:05  <Bjarni> people actually wondered about this
23:13:19  <HMage`> and passengers don't pay when they finish their travel, they pay up front
23:13:33  <Bjarni> yeah
23:13:49  <Ailure> but real life services have set schedules too
23:13:49  <HMage`> and on accidents you have to pay insurance costs
23:14:04  <Bjarni> they tried paying when leaving in Scotland once. They had to stop because people refused to pay and starved to death in the busses
23:14:24  <Ailure> heh
23:14:33  <Ailure> besides I guess it would actually be cheaper
23:14:35  <Ailure> to pay beforehand
23:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> but, if you allow pay before start, you have to implement a system for refund, if the passenger does not arrive (in time)
23:15:19  <Bjarni> it's cheaper to administrate a fixed cost than it is to pay say a given % of fuel costs that day
23:15:35  <HMage`> I have another idea - how about penalties for accidents? like, bus crashed with a train. train is always responsible, you pay insurance refund for 30+ lives.
23:15:47  <Bjarni> bad idea
23:15:50  <Ailure> Eddi, true but I think it's probably cheaper than a system where you pays afterwards
23:16:00  <Ailure> There's already penalties for accidents
23:16:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i mean that gamewise now
23:16:08  <Ailure> rating drops to 0%
23:16:12  <Bjarni> 95% of all road vehicle/train collisions are due to human error from the road vehicle driver
23:16:20  <Bjarni> or is it 98%
23:16:28  <Ailure> It's a bit unrealistic
23:16:33  <Ailure> I don't see a bus company grind to halt
23:16:37  <Ailure> becuse one of their buses
23:16:40  <Ailure> was in a accident somewhere
23:16:45  <Ailure> which happens sometimes
23:16:51  <Ailure> but it's quite rare
23:17:12  <HMage`> I don't remember... it's the station rating or the city rating that goes to 0%?
23:17:18  <Ailure> just station
23:17:20  <Ailure> if I recall
23:17:26  <Ailure> it also empties the cargo
23:17:28  <Ailure> at the stations
23:17:31  <HMage`> some advertisement and you're good to go
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23:17:48  <Ailure> and that's the problem with it
23:17:53  <Ailure> it dosen't affect companies for long anyway :P
23:18:06  <Bjarni> well, I didn't like the bus company where the driver kept hitting concrete on the roadside and said to the passengers "they made this road too narrow for busses and it's impossible to avoid".... I have been on other busses of the same size on the same road and no other driver hit the concrete
23:18:07  <Ailure> even if you don't do anything to fix it
23:18:10  <Ailure> it will after a month
23:18:32  <Ailure> heh I seen incompetence from bus drivers too
23:18:35  <Ailure> but not too often
23:18:44  <HMage`> I'm just concerned about people in multiplayer building a depot, a rail cell, and push a locomotive going back and forth, destroying vehicles that cross that cell sometimes
23:18:44  <Ailure> such as a case of a bus driver hitting some terminal at a bus station
23:18:48  <Ailure> and kept accelerating
23:18:54  <Ailure> there weren't any major damage
23:19:14  <Ailure> just something that broke on the bus that probalby would be easy to fix and only cost a few hundred dollars
23:19:27  <Ailure> well
23:19:34  <Bjarni> HMage`: we should fix that in another way, like preventing a railroad crossing from being activated too often
23:19:35  <Ailure> considering how badly the rail crossing system works
23:19:48  <Ailure> I would rather see the trains just passing through the bus
23:20:10  <Bjarni> real life railroad crossing got a "cooldown" time of 3 minutes to allow road traffic to flow
23:20:21  <Bjarni> it can't deactivate and then reactivate on it's own
23:20:44  <Bjarni> there is an overwrite function though, but it have to be manually activated by somebody at the location
23:21:08  <HMage`> Bjarni: I mean the situation when a naughty person puts a train to _destroy_ competitor's vehicles.
23:21:10  <Ailure> ah
23:21:14  <Ailure> might explain why a train I was on
23:21:24  <Ailure> stopped before rail crossing once
23:21:31  <Ailure> I thought the station were simple full
23:21:33  <Ailure> but might been that
23:21:43  <Ailure> it were on schedule anyway
23:21:51  <Bjarni> maybe if we do the same. After the crossing is deactivated, there is a waiting time before it can start again and no train can cross it. It will not matter to people, who use them as they are intended, but it will help against blocking
23:22:08  <HMage`> good stuff
23:22:18  <Ailure> of course that would annoy people in openTTD
23:22:31  <HMage`> they'll just try to avoid crossings :)
23:22:50  <Ailure> but then
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23:22:52  <Ailure> rail crossings
23:22:56  <Ailure> is reserved to low traffic roads
23:22:58  <Ailure> from what I seen
23:23:06  <Ailure> if it's moderate to high
23:23:14  <Ailure> they just use a solution of bridges and tunnels
23:23:18  * HMage` remembers the balance in mortal kombat 3 for pc. every action had a counteraction if you think properly
23:23:28  <Ailure> like people do all the time for openTTD
23:23:38  <Ailure> there's no passenger cars in openTTD :)
23:23:38  <HMage`> Ailure: that's the point, this will prevent vandalism
23:23:42  <Ailure> so traffic is kind of low usually
23:23:46  <Bjarni> not true. It can be used for low traffic rails as well even on roads with a lot of traffic
23:24:06  <Ailure> ah
23:24:11  <Ailure> well I just hadn't seen a personal case of it
23:24:12  <Ailure> that's all
23:24:31  <Ailure> and the train traffic here is going to get increased
23:24:43  <Ailure> due to the rising popularity of train travel in Sweden
23:24:45  <HMage`> the problem I see now is that buses and trucks are very underbalanced.
23:25:02  <HMage`> (in openttd)
23:25:02  <Ailure> well their main problem
23:25:08  <Ailure> is that they cost too much to start with
23:25:36  <HMage`> I stopped using them when all my buses on a very good route were destroyed.
23:25:54  <HMage`> not because they were expensive, I could live with it.
23:26:07  <Bjarni> Ailure: there is a track though the centre of Malmö at road level, so it completely jams traffic when it's used. It's rarely used though so it's ok even though Malmö is a big town with a whole lot of traffic
23:26:18  <Ailure> ah
23:26:23  <Bjarni> they do want to make a tunnel so they can increase traffic though
23:26:28  <Ailure> I'm rarely down at Malmö
23:26:33  <Ailure> however I live att hässleholm
23:26:38  <Ailure> so I can take a train down there easily
23:27:03  <Ailure> Hässleholm have a big train station for some reason
23:27:15  <HMage`> ...and Ailure will end in Berlin, because there wasn't  cargo destionations patch active.
23:27:27  <Bjarni> lol
23:27:28  <HMage`> end up*
23:28:05  <HMage`> just imagine, lots of ppl, and they rush to a first train they see, not worried where does it go and how much does it cost.
23:28:08  <Ailure> well
23:28:11  <Ailure> I wouldn't wind up in berlin
23:28:16  <Ailure> I would wind up in helsingör
23:28:20  <Ailure> that's where some of the trains end
23:28:32  <Ailure> or helsingborg
23:28:42  <Ailure> though travelling to helsingborg and then take the ferry
23:28:49  <Ailure> to helsingör
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23:28:54  <Ailure> is faster than going to helsingör by train
23:29:00  <Bjarni> oh that reminds me of one time when I was going to take the train. They changed the planned stuff because they had problems. The signs on the train said one thing, the screens on the platform said another, the speaker said something nobody could hear and the train crew stated a 3rd solution to where each train would go
23:29:14  <Bjarni> somehow I managed to find the right train
23:29:15  <HMage`> lol Bjarni
23:29:43  <Ailure> DAMN
23:29:44  <Ailure> haha
23:29:46  <Ailure> you know
23:29:47  <HMage`> there must have been an AI competitior causing earthquakes nearby
23:29:49  <Ailure> speakers at train stations
23:29:55  <Ailure> is there anyone who can hear what they say?
23:30:00  <Ailure> I try hard to listen
23:30:03  <Ailure> but I can never understand
23:30:07  <HMage`> I can, they're automated here in moscow.
23:30:08  <Bjarni> actually I can
23:30:24  <Ailure> I been thinking of taking one of thoose
23:30:30  <Ailure> Öresundståg they're called I think
23:30:34  <Ailure> down to copenhagen someday
23:30:48  *** HMage` is now known as HMage
23:30:52  <Bjarni> at once time I heard they said "the train in track 11 (I think) is the train..." and they said it after the train had started moving and had driven at least 20 meters
23:31:12  <Ailure> rofl
23:31:14  <HMage> lol
23:31:31  <Ailure> missing a train can suck
23:31:34  <Ailure> becuse it can be like
23:31:39  <Ailure> one hour to the next one
23:31:41  <Ailure> where I live
23:32:00  <Ailure> though that might change, since they're going to redo the schedule for next year
23:32:05  * HMage likes how the airports are organized - loud, clear announcer
23:32:16  <Ailure> which is understandable, becuse most of the time
23:32:19  <Ailure> the trains are full
23:32:25  <Ailure> or overfull
23:32:40  <Bjarni> this case was special. It was a vintage train and somewhere around the only thing happening out of the ordinary and they gave that message like 4 times in total, only the last one came too late
23:32:40  <Ailure> reality is not like openTTD
23:32:51  <Ailure> in reality, there can be more passengers in a train or bus
23:32:56  <Ailure> than the bus/train is designed for
23:33:20  <Bjarni> yeah, missing a train sucks
23:33:22  <HMage> moscow is known for that, the subway was designed in 1930-1960 for 10% of the human traffic it sees today.
23:34:02  <Bjarni> I once saw a train leaving and it would be 80 minutes (not 60, but 80) before the next train and somebody came running. The train driver saw that, stopped the train and opened the doors again
23:34:07  <HMage> rush hours are more like 'cram your ass into the train' hour
23:34:25  <Bjarni> I think the train actually stopped half way into the road crossing
23:34:32  <HMage> that was nice
23:34:55  <Ailure> I actually took the wrong train once
23:35:10  <HMage> I actually can't understand how the moscow subway logistics people manage to have every train arrive at the station at 30 second intervals (!)
23:35:13  <Ailure> but I luckily I was able to catch the next train in time in the right direction
23:35:21  <Ailure> when I jumped off
23:35:23  <Ailure> at the next station
23:35:31  <HMage> hehe, Ailure
23:35:50  <HMage> happens to me in subway casually
23:36:19  <HMage> - moscow subway
23:36:28  <Bjarni> I was once reading a book in the train and when I looked up, the train was at a standstill on the station where I should get off. I threw the book into my bag, took my jacket and bag and ran off the train.... somehow I managed to do that before it left
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23:37:05  <HMage> yeah, I once had the train doors close in front of my nose
23:37:17  <HMage> forgot to take off the train on my station
23:38:19  <HMage>
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23:38:35  <MeusH> hi
23:38:39  <HMage> hi
23:39:00  <Bjarni> the first day I should use the subway in Copenhagen (only time?), it first drove like shit because one track was blocked by a broken train. Later that day the train was removed and the train drove somewhat decent. A train arrived and a whole lot of people got off, when they were nearly done getting out, the doors closed (they are on a timer) and the train moved without anybody getting on it
23:39:00  <TrueBrain> Oh, what I forgot to mention a bit earlier today: tomorrow all OpenTTD related servers will be done for like 5 minutes, for a kernel reboot. Will be around 12:00 CET. Just for anyone who might care :p
23:39:20  <TrueBrain> (more for our SVN freaks, who notice the second SVN is down :p)
23:39:38  <HMage> :)
23:39:47  <Bjarni> I don't like standing on a station, waiting for a train and then see the train leave without me
23:40:23  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: that's ok. Odds are that if you didn't tell us, nobody would have noticed those 5 minutes
23:40:33  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
23:40:38  <Bjarni> PandaMojo: you asked for me
23:40:40  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: euh, that is my problem... you guys always do :(
23:40:46  <Bjarni> lol
23:40:47  <PandaMojo> Hmm.
23:40:49  <PandaMojo> OH YES
23:40:56  <PandaMojo> ./configure --debug=3 does jack shit
23:40:58  <PandaMojo> on OS X
23:40:59  <TrueBrain> and I do love getting emails from DV, but..... :p
23:41:05  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: yeah, but odds are that I will not notice that at that time tomorrow
23:41:18  <PandaMojo> Makefile.config[ure?] is left with DEBUG:= *big fat blank here*
23:41:42  <Bjarni> PandaMojo: trunk of makefile rewrite branch?
23:41:54  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: as I said, for who ever might care :p I at least did my job :p
23:41:54  <PandaMojo> Trunk head
23:42:02  <HMage> I was in Madrid, there's automated train in the airport between terminals, I called it, and while waiting, I've got the vending machine to get a mineral water, while I was doing it, the train arrived, waited there for a minute, and left the station (it's fully automated, no driver), I just saw the door closing and the train leaving
23:42:07  <TrueBrain> night all
23:42:10  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
23:43:03  <Bjarni> PandaMojo: then I don't care. Configure in the trunk is bad and will soon (really soon) be replaced with one that actually works
23:43:36  <Bjarni> edit Makefile.config and set DEBUG:= to something
23:43:48  <Bjarni> it works
23:45:29  <Bjarni> so cool, I fixed an issue
23:45:41  <HMage> wow, I didn't know that the pass card I use for moscow subway is actually a smartcard.
23:45:43  <Bjarni> and the cause of it was "user gave the wrong input"
23:45:55  <Bjarni> that's the most common cause, but that's another story
23:46:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> and what is so special about this one?
23:46:25  <PandaMojo> Bjarni: Yeah, that's what we did.
23:46:54  <PandaMojo> Anyways, off to drive to the airport
23:46:55  <PandaMojo> bbl
23:47:04  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: PandaMojo]
23:47:33  <Bjarni> usually each bug report is caused by a different issue (different bugs), but user input error/user failure to understand feature errors tend to cause a lot of them
23:49:03  <HMage> - my subway station
23:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> i honestly tried, but i did not understand that sentence
23:50:10  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
23:51:00  <Bjarni> you own a subway station?
23:51:05  <HMage> lol
23:51:11  <Bjarni> do you get fees for each train or something? :)
23:51:13  *** nairan [] has quit []
23:52:08  <HMage> I meant the closest to where I live, it's the russian language that made me do that mistake - it's perfectly normal to say 'my road' or 'my bus', while actually meaning the one he's going to use.
23:52:18  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit []
23:52:26  <Bjarni> more seriously, I'm surprised that you got a wikipedia page about your local station, specially one in English
23:52:46  <Bjarni> <HMage>	I meant the closest to where I live, it's the russian language that made me do that mistake - it's perfectly normal to say 'my road' or 'my bus', while actually meaning the one he's going to use. <-- same here
23:52:51  <Naksu> Bjarni: there's a wikipedia page for EVERYTHING
23:52:58  <Bjarni> cool
23:53:12  <Bjarni> yeah
23:53:14  <Bjarni> there is
23:53:15  <Bjarni>
23:54:07  <HMage> I heard that moscow subway is quite unique in the world, probably because of that. Moscow is inhabited not only by russians, 7 millions of people use subway every day, not suprising it's documented in wikipedia so thoroughly.
23:54:48  <Bjarni> my station lacks a page, but searching for it found the page for the railroad and it contains dead links to half of the stations and links to pages for the other half
23:55:53  <HMage> See also
23:55:53  <HMage>     * Anything
23:55:53  <HMage>     * Nothing
23:55:53  <HMage>     * Something
23:55:55  <HMage> lol
23:55:57  <glx> <-- my line :)
23:56:25  <glx> but my stations don't have pages :(
23:56:57  <HMage> you can be the one who writes about it
23:59:50  <Naksu> there's even an article about a nearby castle in wikipedia

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