Log for #openttd on 29th November 2006:
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00:01:09  <Brianetta> It does?
00:01:36  <Brianetta> It does.
00:01:39  <Brianetta> Cool.
00:01:43  * Brianetta transparentifies
00:02:50  <peter1138> heh
00:03:04  <Brianetta> Actually, it doesn't
00:03:14  <Brianetta> it's cheating witht he background picture
00:03:26  <peter1138> it does with the right gubbins
00:03:37  <Brianetta> I have those gubbins ):
00:04:51  <lolman> Get Beryl installed, hold Super and scroll your mouse wheel :-D
00:05:02  <lolman> Oops
00:05:04  <lolman> Hold Alt
00:05:05  <lolman> :P
00:05:09  <Brianetta> I have Beryl installed.  It's unstable and unusable (both).
00:05:19  <lolman> Ah
00:05:20  <Brianetta> It gives me a white cube (with, er, drop shadows)
00:05:29  <Brianetta> I am using compiz-quinnstorm
00:05:50  <Brianetta> and alt-scroll will make everything transparent, whereas one wants the text not to be transparent.
00:05:52  <Sacro> Brianetta: it doesnt cheat if your using beryl
00:06:10  <Brianetta> Sacro: It doesn't do anything if I'm using beryl.
00:06:17  <Brianetta> I have to kill the wm just to see window contents.
00:06:24  <tormentum> Server hard drive disk failed on Sunday, and we're currently trying to rescue it even though it does not look good at all. Apologies.
00:06:47  <Sacro> ive had beryl running for 7 hours now with no problems
00:06:51  <Brianetta> Besides, Beryl's feel is all wrong.  It spins the cube too fast.
00:06:57  <lolman> 2 days straight here
00:06:59  <lolman> :)
00:07:18  <Brianetta> Also, Ctrl-Alt-Down shows you the bottom face, which is useless.  Compiz does a filmstrip of desktops, which isn't
00:07:18  <HMage> it's evil microsoft responsible for HD crash
00:07:32  <Sacro> Brianetta: beryl has the filmstrip too
00:07:46  <tormentum> why did they fork?
00:07:51  <Sacro> "Desktop Plane"
00:08:08  <Sacro> tormentum: create a better alternative
00:08:23  <Brianetta> Desktop plane isn't zoomed out, and crashes really fast if you do it with the mouse.
00:08:47  <Brianetta> The only thing I don't like about compiz, is that the close button on all windows is on the right
00:09:05  <tormentum> just got my hands on windoze 2 k source code...
00:09:08  <tormentum> it's a fun read :P
00:09:12  <Brianetta> and, unlike almost all other systems (including most WMs and Windows) I can't even double-click the icon to close a window.
00:10:10  <tormentum> "/* whoever wrote this piece of code needs to come to my office for an ass-kicking */"
00:11:42  *** tormentum is now known as tormentum_afl
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00:14:09  <lolman> w00t got Xfce working :P
00:14:14  <lolman> (On arch) :P
00:14:15  <Sacro_> tormentum_afl: :o where you get 2k source?
00:14:18  <Sacro_> lolman: sweet
00:14:36  <lolman> Resolution is HUGE though
00:14:39  <Naksu> Sacro_: it was leaked a couple of years ago
00:14:40  <Sacro_> hehe
00:14:42  <lolman> Where's the X config held?
00:14:47  <Sacro_> Naksu: is it still floating around?
00:14:51  <Naksu> yes
00:15:01  <Naksu> i have a copy saved :)
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00:15:09  <Sacro_> any subtle pointers on where to find it?
00:15:14  <Naksu> emule
00:15:24  <Naksu> oh wait, you meant subtle
00:15:30  <Naksu> the intertubes
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00:15:38  <Naksu> basically
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00:15:47  <Brianetta> xfc with a compositing xfwm would be so damned fast
00:15:52  <Naksu> _everything_ that ever was, is, or will be, is in emule
00:15:55  <Sacro> Brianetta: xfc?
00:15:59  <Brianetta> xfce
00:16:01  <Sacro> Naksu: no torrents?
00:16:02  <Naksu> except registered blast miner 1.04
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00:16:12  <lolman> Try that again shall we...
00:16:14  <Sacro> Brianetta: XFCE + beryl?
00:16:18  <Brianetta> Sacro: NO
00:16:28  <Sacro> lolman: pacman -S hwd
00:16:28  <Brianetta> xfce with a compositing version of xfwm
00:16:32  <Naksu> Sacro: i dont think there's any around
00:16:35  <Brianetta> not that bloatware that is Beryl
00:16:39  <Sacro> then "hwd -xa" and edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
00:16:42  <Naksu> there's a lot of comment dumps tho
00:16:45  <lolman> Okies :)
00:16:47  <lolman> Cheers
00:17:06  <Brianetta> If xfwm offloaded rectangle moves and window sstacking to the GPU, it'd be much, much faster.
00:17:18  <Brianetta> No window redraws, etc
00:17:32  <Naksu> Sacro:
00:19:07  <lolman> Wow...runs fecking quick...
00:19:10  <Naksu> my favorite being:
00:19:12  <Naksu> "The specific idiot in this case is Office95, which likes to free a random pointer when you start Word95 from a desktop shortcut."
00:19:33  <Naksu> how do you free a random pointer unintentionally?
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00:20:57  <lolman> Where are the startup scripts held? lol
00:21:06  <lolman> As in system startup :P
00:23:07  <Ailure>
00:23:14  <Ailure> ytmnd is making me stay up for too long
00:23:52  <Sacro> lolman: /etc/rc.d/
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00:24:12  <lolman> Of
00:24:21  <lolman> No wonder gdm was in there :P
00:25:31  <peter1138> Brianetta: that should be possible with xfwm
00:25:37  <lolman> (decided to make life easier by having graphical login) :P
00:25:42  <peter1138> in window manager tweaks there's a compositor setting...
00:28:25  <lolman> I promise myself I'll have GNOME working by the time I go to sleep
00:28:28  <lolman> :)
00:28:41  <Sacro> lolman: pacman -S gnome gnome-extra
00:28:45  <Sacro> and follow the wiki
00:28:50  <lolman> Sacro, lol
00:29:08  <lolman> You didn't have to tell me :P
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00:30:12  <Sacro> lolman|t3hn00b:
00:30:21  <lolman|t3hn00b> Get lost :P
00:31:44  <lolman|t3hn00b> I'll probably never be able to do that :P
00:32:29  <Sacro> i did that about 3 years ago
00:32:36  <Sacro> i learn soooooooo much
00:32:42  <Naksu> actually
00:32:47  <lolman|t3hn00b> Well I'm a total n00b :)
00:32:51  <Naksu> you dont learn shit by doing it by the manual
00:33:03  <Naksu> and you learn even less by installing gentoo
00:33:08  <Sacro> however i have only just discovered the danger of sneezing whilst looking up
00:34:04  <lolman|t3hn00b> Naksu, I probably know the least about Linux out of everyone in here
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00:35:03  <Naksu> lolman|t3hn00b: i only know enough to have it with every fibre of my being
00:35:15  <Sacro> lolman|t3hn00b: doubt it
00:35:48  <lolman|t3hn00b> Sacro, you actually think I know more about a subject than someone else?
00:35:53  <Naksu> while i have nothing against the development process itself, the end result is... kinda like the infinite monkey thing
00:36:54  <Sacro> lolman|t3hn00b: belive me , there are worse peope in #archlinux
00:37:03  <lolman|t3hn00b> Naksu, I just use it because it's free :P
00:37:09  <lolman|t3hn00b> Sacro, :O
00:37:44  <Brianetta> linux is just this OS, you know?
00:38:17  <lolman|t3hn00b> Brianetta, nope, Linux is just the kernel :)
00:38:36  <Sacro> Brianetta: quite basterdising douglas adams :p
00:38:48  <Brianetta> lolman: A technicality that has been made as obsolete and futile as hackers being anything other than criminals.
00:38:51  <HMage> Hey Darkvater, how about adding this into first line of every source code: "IF YOU CHANGE TABS TO SPACES, YOU WILL BE KILLED!!!"? :)
00:39:06  <HMage> of every OpenTTD source code file*
00:39:20  <Sacro> HMage: that'd be against the GPL
00:39:31  <HMage> okay, after GPL clause
00:39:53  <Ailure> and how would they get changed into spaces?
00:39:55  <Sacro> HMage: no what i mean is you cannot kill someone for changing something
00:40:02  <lolman|t3hn00b> You MAY do it, but expect lolman to beat you senseless with a stick
00:40:07  <Naksu> Ailure: by copying from a terminal
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00:40:30  <Sacro> Brianetta: impressive
00:41:04  <Zevensoft> put random "// HACK HACK HACK"s everywhere
00:41:26  <Zevensoft> int i = 0; // THIS IS A HACK
00:41:43  <Naksu> why would you do that
00:41:52  * HMage hackhackhacks everyone
00:41:57  <Ailure> and why would people want to copy from a terminal? xD
00:42:01  <Ailure> linux users using VI?
00:42:20  <Zevensoft> ew vi
00:42:26  <Naksu> just have int i; and do a for (i=0;i<9;i++) for easy mental skipping
00:42:32  <HMage> "* The magnitude of this hack compares favorably with that of the national debt."
00:42:39  <HMage> ROFLOL
00:42:39  <Naksu> Ailure: actually
00:42:52  <Naksu> i copy from the terminal quite often
00:43:05  <Naksu> luckily no-one ever gets to see the source
00:44:00  <Ailure> ah
00:44:40  <Naksu> unless i intentionally show it
00:45:01  <Naksu> here's the source for a ragnarok online freeserver utility :)
00:45:17  <Ailure> Can't people just use
00:45:21  <Ailure> a autoformat tool before they send it?
00:45:26  <Ailure> or whatever it's called
00:45:41  <Ailure> In the various I use, I tend to use than now and then to get the right amount of tabs :P
00:46:00  <Naksu> launches a different exe based on whether foxdye should be used and windows version
00:46:01  <Ailure> freeserver?
00:46:04  <Ailure> as a private server?
00:46:07  <HMage> " * To implement this undocumented API we will use the NT undocumented API"
00:46:07  <Naksu> Ailure: read: pirate server
00:46:08  <Ailure> funny I happen to be a GM for one
00:46:09  <Ailure> haha
00:46:20  <Naksu> i was a gm for one for a while
00:46:35  <Naksu> before that i was a developer for random uo shards since i was like 13
00:47:02  <Ailure> But I'm getting more intrested in doing online games of my own
00:47:07  <Naksu> surprisingly there's quite a bit you can do once you learn the brainfuck that is escript
00:47:22  <Naksu> (scripting language used in POL)
00:48:23  <Ailure> then when I think on it, I done alot of grey area stuff
00:48:26  <Ailure> :)
00:48:45  <Ailure> such as reverse engineering of various games
00:49:05  <Ailure> Which I belive is fine by Swedish laws anyway
00:49:49  <Naksu> haha
00:50:21  <Naksu> i made a sort-of cracked version of the microsoft print migration tool for use in a place that's part of the microsoft campus program thingy
00:50:52  <Naksu> (just nuked the window creation so the program runs "silent")
00:51:18  <Ailure> Hadn't hacked alot of Win32 programs though
00:51:23  <Ailure> but I might screw around a bit for fun someday
00:52:44  <Naksu> just a disclaimer that i barely understand the stuff
00:53:02  <Ailure> heh
00:53:07  <Ailure> oh yeah for that privcate server I mentioned
00:53:14  <Ailure> the main GM knows assembly quite well
00:53:27  <Ailure> and even have "customized" the client and added various features
00:53:40  <Ailure> such as the client being able to react on certain server commands
00:53:45  <Naksu> i know assembly quite well, just not any API :D
00:54:01  <Ailure> I belive that could be the hardest part on a Win32 system ;P
00:54:08  <Naksu> any system really
00:54:16  <Ailure> I don't see much X86 Win32 ASM hacking
00:54:20  <Ailure> only TTDpatch comes to mind
00:54:27  <Naksu> Ailure: all cracks :)
00:54:40  <Naksu> and
00:54:41  <Ailure> yeah true, but they're actually quite simple when you think on it
00:54:51  <Naksu> Ailure: hell no
00:54:53  <Naksu> some of them are
00:54:56  <Ailure> most of them is about finding the copy protection and making it skip it
00:55:14  <Ailure> well it depends
00:55:15  <Naksu> but usually it's like a maze of jumps back and forth
00:55:30  <Naksu> and dummy comparisons
00:56:09  <Naksu> you might notice that half the program code is never actually run
00:56:20  <Ailure> well some programs are kind of stupid when it comes to copy protection
00:56:26  <Ailure> Like starcraft heh
00:56:34  <Ailure> or rather
00:56:41  <Ailure> I remember not installing the spawned version
00:56:44  <Naksu> any game with securom 7 :)
00:56:56  <Ailure> and still being able to play one CD, since as soon the blue screen about the CD missing comes up
00:56:59  <Ailure> you just press esc
00:57:02  <Ailure> until it stops whining
00:57:05  <Ailure> and then it works fine
00:57:27  <Ailure> well that's not really copy protection
00:57:34  <Ailure> more like it trying to request files that it dosen't really need
00:58:13  <Ailure> Or for some stupid RTS game
00:58:24  <Ailure> I remember some crack that just remapped the CD drive to A:
00:58:35  <Ailure> so whenever the game tries to use the CD
00:58:40  <Ailure> it tries to load a floppy disc
00:58:47  <Ailure> it worked, but was really annoying
00:58:55  <Ailure> becuse how often that happened
00:59:07  <Naksu> CLANK CLANK
00:59:10  <Ailure> yeah
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00:59:27  <HMage> starforce isn't an easy think to circumvent
00:59:31  <HMage> thing*
00:59:51  <Ailure> well heh
01:00:02  <Ailure> I have a belief that cd protection dosen't do much at sales
01:00:05  <Ailure> so if I  ever make a game
01:00:32  <Ailure> I either make a system taht is kind of hard to pirate (MMORPG) or just dosen't bother at all
01:00:57  <Ailure> Yes I know about private servers, but I doubt they really steal potentional players when I think on it
01:01:24  <HMage> private servers are for circumvented clients, I know many shards for wow, eq, uo and many others.
01:01:37  <HMage> they're just not as popular as official ones of course.
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01:02:12  <Naksu> wow doesnt really work unofficially
01:02:18  <Naksu> UO and RO are nice tho
01:02:30  <HMage> Rangarock Online is raging wild here in russia.
01:02:34  <Naksu> Ailure: it just needs to be there
01:02:39  <Ailure> Most people play RO private servers becuse of increased exp rates
01:02:45  <Ailure> which is understandable
01:02:51  <Naksu> the original tribes failed because it didnt have any copy protection for a multiplayer game
01:02:54  <Ailure> RO at 1x is a levelling treadmill
01:02:58  <HMage> wow is playable with bnetd and some registry hacks
01:03:08  <Naksu> bnetd?
01:03:16  <Naksu> wow?
01:03:18  <HMage> unix emulator
01:03:24  <Naksu> wow doesnt use :)
01:03:35  <Sacro> night all
01:03:46  <HMage> afaik it does
01:03:46  <Naksu> but i'm not saying that it isnt emulatable
01:03:51  <Ailure>
01:03:58  <Naksu> HMage: warcraft does
01:04:03  <Ailure> It's funny though
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01:04:04  <Naksu> world of warcraft definately does not
01:04:06  <Ailure> becuse a similar tool
01:04:10  <Ailure> for emulating westwood online
01:04:16  <Ailure> get's offical recnogontion
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01:04:20  <Naksu> but anyways, i'm saying the game isnt any fun with less than 10000 people per server
01:04:30  <Ailure> and EA games even gave over the support for it
01:05:48  <Naksu> i need sleep
01:05:49  <Naksu> gn :)
01:06:31  <Ailure> I need sleep too
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01:07:58  <HMage> I agree, but if you have 110$/month income (average russian income), paying 50$ for a game is a little too much - people barely manage to keep up with the hardware upgrades, so the games are sold 99% pirated here.
01:08:34  <HMage> I work for the company that targets remaining 1% (most of the live in moscow, moscow income average is 900$)
01:08:40  <HMage> of them*
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01:17:43  <PandaMojo> Yes I bloody know you can't look up my hostname >_>
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01:51:32  <roboboy> bye
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02:18:08  <ZBServer> can you password protect AI companies in multiplayer?
02:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> is AI even possible in multiplayer?
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02:57:12  <ZBServer> yea it is
02:57:19  <ZBServer> its in configure patches
02:57:24  <ZBServer> and i have it running right now
02:57:33  <ZBServer> its open public server
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03:32:35  <jotham> pew
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05:20:53  <DannyA> Howdy. Can anyone tell me where IDC_STATIC is normally defined? I've been replacing it with -1 to compile...
05:26:59  <DaleStan> DannyA: Only one file contains that identifier. Look at the files it #includes, and the files they #include, if any.
05:28:39  <DaleStan> DannyA: :oops: Sorry, that wasn't actually helpful was it. If it were defined ...
05:29:37  <DaleStan> DannyA: For me, its defined in both winres.h and afxres.h, depending on which compiler I use.
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06:08:10  <DannyA> Thanks DaleStan, I'll check if I got those somewhere
06:25:09  <DannyA> Removing the afxres.h I copied as part of the VSExpress setup proceedure allowed it to find the one with the definition (installed by VS2005pro). The one I got from open foundation contained no definitions - don't know why. There is one other thing I always have to change - the linker can't find LIBC.lib, and a search in files turns up no references to it. Any idea what the story is there?
06:30:36  <DaleStan> That a default library that the linker always links with, unless you explicitly instruct it otherwise.
06:30:36  <DaleStan> +is
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06:34:00  <lolman|t3hn00b> Argh, t3h lag :(
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06:56:53  <DannyA> Thanks, I think I'll just keep excluding it which seems to work ok.
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07:26:07  * roboboy tv
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08:13:43  <hylje>
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08:51:08  <Darkvater> morning
08:53:30  <hylje> evening
09:07:23  *** robotv is now known as roboboy
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09:40:40  <peter1138> hylje: four oh four
09:40:59  <hylje> 4chan tends to expire those fairly fast
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10:08:53  <Darkvater> hi the petah
10:09:09  <hylje> :o
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10:15:06  <Darkvater> :O
10:15:12  <Darkvater> E U R U S D  Dn  1 . 3 1 6 1   + . 0 0 0 3
10:15:26  <Darkvater> I haven't seen the dollar so low in years
10:15:55  <hylje> now you have
10:16:02  *** AtzaMan [n2m9a2m6g@] has joined #openttd
10:16:25  <AtzaMan> hi all
10:16:51  <Darkvater> hi
10:17:09  <AtzaMan> can someone tell me why cobras planespeed patch crash with r7194
10:17:24  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:17:35  <Darkvater> you need to talk to cobra about that since it's his patch
10:18:27  <AtzaMan> i dont really need that patch only the speed variable to multyply it bu 8
10:18:39  <AtzaMan> and thats all
10:18:41  <Darkvater> you need to talk to cobra about that since it's his patch
10:18:48  <AtzaMan> Ok
10:18:57  <Darkvater> only he knows what his patch does and what might be wrong with it
10:19:30  <AtzaMan> do you know how to change game variables ingame?
10:19:46  <peter1138> multiply by *eight* ?
10:19:50  <AtzaMan> yes
10:19:50  <Darkvater> which variables?
10:19:55  <peter1138> isn't that a bit... fast?
10:19:58  <AtzaMan> aircraft speed
10:19:58  <Darkvater> peter1138: probably 'realistic plane speeds' or something
10:20:05  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's multiply by four
10:20:15  <peter1138> well
10:20:24  <peter1138> where "realistic" means "same speed as trains"
10:20:27  <AtzaMan> try  comparing the tiles
10:20:47  <AtzaMan> a plane of 600mph should eat a chimaera
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10:21:35  <Darkvater> wb DaleStan
10:25:20  <DaleStan> This is supremely irritating. If you're going to make a router with filtering, make the filtering able to handle the type of load that makes the filtering necessary in the first place.
10:26:00  <peter1138> AtzaMan: 4 should make it make
10:26:14  <peter1138> err
10:26:15  <peter1138> match
10:26:26  <peter1138> i.e. a 300 mph plane goes the same speed as a 300 mph train
10:27:08  <peter1138> i should keep my planespeed units patch up to date
10:27:12  *** Hagbarddenstore [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
10:27:24  <peter1138> i need to fiddle with (de)acceleration though
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10:29:51  <Darkvater> goodbye DaleStan
10:30:00  <Darkvater> oh wait, that's the old one
10:30:10  <peter1138> heh
10:30:45  * peter1138 wonders if DaleStan knows of any grfs that use varaction2 subroutines
10:31:26  * DaleStan does not.
10:33:28  <AtzaMan> 4 does match train but does it match road vehs and ships?
10:34:06  <enra> quick question - i'm looking for the openttdpatch but can only find the ttdpatch, are they the same thing?  (stupid question i know)
10:34:32  <DaleStan> OpenTTDPatch does not exist. Never has, never will.
10:35:09  <enra> awwww
10:35:10  <Darkvater> technically ttdpatch is open ;p
10:35:12  <DaleStan> OpenTTD and TTDPatch both exist, but are two separate and basically incompatible things.
10:35:44  <enra> so it most likely crash game
10:35:53  <ln-> DaleStan: of course it exists.
10:35:56  <DaleStan> What is "it"?
10:36:17  <enra> ttdpatch
10:36:22  <ln-> DaleStan: OpenTTDPatch. why else would there be the "Configure patches" window in ottd?
10:37:33  <DaleStan> No. TTDPatch won't crash on your TTDPatch games any more than OpenTTD will crash on your OpenTTD games.
10:37:55  <Darkvater> I like that; shows faith in your product
10:38:33  <AtzaMan> when will planespeed patch become integrated with minIN, and how do i find richk67?
10:38:43  <Darkvater> now, DaleStan, what is this thing I keep hearing about grfcodec PNG support?
10:39:19  <roboboy> wont it allow grfs to be encoded from pngs instead of pcx's
10:40:14  <DaleStan> It was in progress. I've got it reading PNGs, but I can't figure out how to write PNGs gracefully.
10:41:06  <Darkvater> AtzaMan: on the forums, you can mail/pm him
10:42:07  <Tron> writing PNGs is about the same as reading
10:42:19  <Tron> mostly it's replacing "read" with "write" in the function names
10:44:19  *** lolman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:45:48  <peter1138> i was wondering about allowing png references in newgrf files, for the 32bpp branch
10:45:48  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:46:07  <DaleStan> The problem is that grfcodec doesn't write the PCX header until it's done writing the data, and actually knows how big the image will be. AFAICT, libpng doesn't allow that behaviour.
10:46:39  <Brianetta> Isn't it possible to buffer it?
10:46:43  <Brianetta> How large are the images?
10:46:51  <peter1138> depends on the number of sprites :)
10:47:03  <peter1138> trg1r.grf is rather large
10:47:04  <Brianetta> Oh, they're all in one imagE?
10:47:13  <peter1138> yes
10:47:24  <Brianetta> I imagined that they were in some sort of indexed archive, like a tar
10:47:35  <peter1138> i suppose it could use a separate image file for each sprite
10:47:46  <peter1138> but when there are 3000+ of them in one grf...
10:48:09  <Tron> peter1138: you mean like this:
10:48:09  <Tron> %ls -l | wc -l
10:48:10  <Tron>     5573
10:48:13  <peter1138> heh
10:48:15  <peter1138> yeah :)
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10:48:56  <Brianetta> Well, perhaps writing to a swap file first, then writing the header and writing the swap contents after that?
10:48:58  <peter1138> Tron, do you know if the 32bpp branch allows arbitrary mixing of 32bpp and 8bpp sprites, or does it require different code to draw each type?
10:49:21  <peter1138> (at the addsortablesprite level)
10:49:28  <Tron> iirc 8bpp sprites get recoded to 32bpp
10:50:13  <Tron> uh, there are different functions
10:50:26  <jotham> can people make custom graphics for openttd?
10:50:30  <jotham> i'd quite like to make some trees
10:50:34  <peter1138> jotham, yes
10:50:37  *** AtzaMan [n2m9a2m6g@] has quit []
10:50:47  <Tron> DrawSpriteWithHint() and DrawSprite32()
10:50:53  <Tron> but the first is just a wrapper for the latter
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10:51:14  <Tron> you can specify all kind of funky stuff what to do with the sprite
10:51:30  <peter1138> does AddSortableSpriteToDraw handle that then? hmm
10:51:39  <Tron> for example you can give it a hint that it is a tile sprite so the alpha values don't get interpolated on scaling
10:51:50  <peter1138> AddSortableSpriteToDraw32()
10:51:51  <peter1138> ok
10:51:52  <peter1138> that's crappy
10:52:14  <DaleStan__> Grr...
10:52:15  <DaleStan__> Size depends on the grf file. trg1r.grf generates a 800x18928 image, but the theoretical limit is infinity.
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10:53:09  <peter1138> you could calculate the size needed first
10:53:22  <peter1138> would involve reworking the code though, i bet
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10:53:51  <peter1138> or just save to files... trg1r_0001.png etc
10:54:20  <Brianetta> DaleStan: Is infinity some large power of 2?
10:54:55  <DaleStan> Hmm... Probably.
10:55:27  * DaleStan tries to remember the documented limits on libpng's output.
10:55:29  <peter1138> 2^infinity
10:55:36  <Brianetta> ouch, peter1138
10:56:12  <Darkvater> showoff
10:56:20  <Darkvater> infinity
10:57:26  <Brianetta> Everybody knows that infinity + 1 == 0 - (infinity +1)
10:57:30  <DaleStan> I think the PNG format is limited to 2^32-1 in both dimensions, but libpng limits it to something sane, like 1 million in both dimensions.
10:57:32  <Brianetta> for any given architecture
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10:58:41  <Tron> Brianetta: if you assumed "infinity == largest positive number", then your statement is wrong
10:58:50  * Brianetta frowns
11:00:55  <Brianetta> I'll have to take your word for it.
11:00:58  <blathijs> Tron: Is it?
11:01:07  *** Rexxie [] has quit [Quit: edgepro: There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on.]
11:01:13  <Brianetta> I thought I was right
11:01:17  <Brianetta> well, of course I did
11:01:40  <DaleStan> Well, architectures that aren't twos-complement come to mind.
11:01:50  <DaleStan> But I don't know how many of those there are.
11:01:55  *** Rexxie [] has joined #openttd
11:02:01  <Tron> well, he said "any given architecture"
11:02:02  *** Belugas [~Jfranc@] has joined #openttd
11:02:05  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
11:02:23  <Brianetta> Well, I've only ever been given five (:
11:02:33  <Tron> also there are floating point numbers
11:02:43  <Tron> there infinity + 1 is infinity
11:02:47  <Brianetta> They're not real* numbers
11:02:54  <Brianetta> *real, as in, not pretend
11:03:02  <Tron> if the coding floating point number has a representation for inifinity
11:03:30  <Tron> interesting that you call them "not real", Pascal calls its floating point numbers "real"
11:03:55  <Brianetta> I qualified that
11:04:16  <Brianetta> They are part of the mathematic set named "real numbers"
11:04:25  <jotham> where can i find a 'TODO' list for TTD
11:04:29  <jotham> er OPENTTD
11:04:30  <Brianetta> but floating point numbers in computers are, at best, a very close approximation.
11:04:46  <Brianetta> It's harder to argue with an integer.
11:04:48  <Tron> very close? hardly
11:05:08  <jotham> heh Brianetta can't win today
11:05:11  *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:05:17  <Darkvater> can't ever
11:05:25  <Brianetta> floats have a gven precision.
11:05:41  <peter1138> that doesn't mean they're close
11:05:52  <Brianetta> at best
11:05:53  <jotham> depends on your frame of reference
11:06:04  <jotham> close is such a dirty subjective word
11:06:24  <jotham> i'm close to death as far as the mountians are concerned
11:06:30  <Brianetta> Indeed you are
11:06:41  <Brianetta> at best, you have a mere century ahead of you
11:06:50  <Tron> every existing machine has a finite number of floating point numbers it can represent
11:07:03  <YogSothoth> Hello
11:07:15  <Brianetta> Tron: Of course, they're finite state machines.
11:07:15  <Tron> but there are a countable infinite amount of rational numbers
11:07:29  <Tron> and there are even more irrational numbers, the are even uncountable!
11:07:37  <Darkvater> jotham: there is no general todo list. There is one for 0.5 but most people pretty much know what is there to be done ;p
11:07:41  <Tron> s/ the / they /
11:08:04  <jotham> i was just curious about the future, cause it looks pretty much done from the feature list and the running of the program
11:08:14  * peter1138 hides from Darkvater
11:08:21  <Brianetta> The set of rational numbers is a power of the number of integers, IIRC
11:08:32  * Darkvater has the all-seeing-eye nobody can hide from me!
11:08:35  <Brianetta> set of integers, I mean
11:08:49  <Brianetta> Darkvater: You're an IRCop now?
11:09:35  <Tron> there are isomorph mappings between the integers and rational numbers
11:09:38  <Darkvater> I don't need such pity powers when I am already allmighty
11:09:43  <Darkvater> watch!
11:09:50  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: hi
11:09:58  <KUDr_wrk> hello my master
11:10:01  <Darkvater> see?
11:10:05  * Darkvater pats KUDr_wrk
11:10:14  <KUDr_wrk> thank you my lord
11:10:32  <Darkvater> dammit, I'm at work and have to chuckle silently
11:11:20  <peter1138> :D
11:11:44  <YogSothoth> Can you tell me what art movement is the original TT cover? Cubo-Futurism?
11:12:40  <Brianetta> Either KUDr was briefed in advance, or Darkvater is an ebil hack0rater
11:12:59  * KUDr_wrk slaps Brianetta
11:13:06  <Brianetta> ):
11:13:10  <Darkvater> down, boy, easy now...
11:13:41  * Brianetta wants his lightsaber
11:13:54  <peter1138> i want that car on the left
11:14:05  <Brianetta> What sort of car is it?
11:14:14  <peter1138> dunno
11:14:35  <peter1138> but it has some sort of pod instead of doors...
11:14:42  <Darkvater> it's a podcar
11:15:07  <YogSothoth> or the Deluxe version, with updated vehicles but same art style:
11:15:09  <Tron> uh...
11:15:15  <Tron> "KOMPLETT IN DEUTCH"
11:15:17  <Tron> DEUTCH?
11:15:24  <Darkvater> -E ?
11:15:33  <Darkvater> or +S
11:16:10  <YogSothoth> Tron: so?
11:16:18  <Tron> (complete in deutch except for the missing s"
11:17:13  <Tron> Darkvater: i guess it's the german box. look at the lower left.
11:18:51  <Darkvater> yea
11:18:59  <Darkvater> lol, coloured-Piets
11:19:03  <Darkvater>
11:19:12  <Darkvater> gay-parade
11:25:34  <peter1138> grand parade
11:26:09  <Brianetta> Once we have shared rails, it'd be neat to have the ability to sell stock to other players... or even loan stock.
11:26:39  <Brianetta> Then one could borrow a loco when cash was tight
11:29:37  <smeding> 'lo
11:29:44  <peter1138> we had some discussion once of how to implement shared rails
11:30:11  <Brianetta> I know
11:30:21  <Brianetta> The outcomeof said discussions were wikied
11:30:31  <peter1138> hmm
11:31:01  *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@] has joined #openttd
11:31:04  <Brianetta> re DaleStan_
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11:34:13  * peter1138 ponders the distribution of lime & orange tictacs
11:34:54  <peter1138> i've got one pack with 8 lime tictacs
11:35:07  *** YogSothoth [] has joined #openttd
11:36:10  <Brianetta> lime are less enjoyable, so that's good.  Enough for variety, not enough to spil the experience.
11:36:16  <Brianetta> spoil
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11:48:55  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7285 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: -Fix (r7282): Our vehstatus is a byte, not a word.
11:49:21  <Brianetta> You tell 'em, peter1138
11:49:28  <peter1138> gcc doesn't complain, msvc does...
11:49:52  <Brianetta> Which compiler builds the nightlies?
11:49:54  <peter1138> gcc
11:50:30  <Brianetta> It seems that portable code would be much easier to write if MS didn't publish compilers.
11:51:11  <hylje> o rly?
11:51:16  <hylje> that's part of ms's intention
11:51:25  <hylje> make it hard to do portable code
11:51:36  <ln-> compilers would also be a lot worse in that case.
11:51:45  <smeding> so people will choose writing windows code because more people can use it ;/
11:52:06  <smeding> (to add to < hylje> make it hard to do portable code)
11:54:55  <HMage> I see TCHAR had stirred quite a trouble :)
12:01:46  <HMage> oops, I need to wake up first.
12:02:04  <peter1138> why?
12:02:07  <peter1138> sleeping's good
12:02:20  <HMage> yep, though it's 15:02 here.
12:05:02  *** Moacha [opera@] has joined #openttd
12:05:06  <Moacha> hey
12:05:36  <Moacha> I just read the the port in the wiki doc are not enough to play with openttd.
12:05:50  <Moacha> What 's all port number ?
12:06:47  * peter1138 hmms at graphical glitches with elrail / bridges
12:07:39  <Moacha> !port
12:07:50  <hylje> !openttd port
12:07:50  <Moacha> !help ports
12:07:51  <_42_> hylje: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
12:08:37  <Moacha> It doesn't work right.
12:08:59  <Moacha> I can connect but I get inevitably out of the game few minutes later.
12:09:13  <Moacha> Is that a multiplayer instability ?
12:10:31  <hylje> multiplayer is very stable
12:10:41  <hylje> the server could be fucked, though
12:10:50  <hylje> it goes out of sync after long periods
12:11:23  <peter1138> Moacha, what does it say when it disconnects?
12:12:53  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has joined #openttd
12:15:13  <Moacha> It goes to the main menu
12:15:17  *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@] has joined #openttd
12:15:22  <Moacha> I don't see any error displayed in the game before getting in the main menu all of a sudden.
12:16:59  <Moacha> I am using WinXP, openttd 0.4.8 behind a nat router (udp/tcp forwarded 3978 -> 3979) and It happens with every single server.
12:19:02  *** DaleStan__ [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:19:22  <Darkvater> HMage: what happened with TCHAR?
12:20:08  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:21:36  <HMage> I forgot to realize that it's covered into #ifdef _WIN32. Since TCHAR doesn't exist on unix
12:22:13  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22:13  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
12:22:22  <HMage> but I think wchar_t would be better, since it's explicit. Never liked how often Microsoft redefines their defines.
12:22:52  <Darkvater> the whole point of TCHAR is to have it be wchar_t when compiled with UNICODE and char withouth
12:23:37  <HMage> yup. But who knows what they'll do to that in Visual Studio 2008. (EULA specifies that you shouldn't rely on stability definitions in their sdk's)
12:23:56  <HMage> on stability of definitions*
12:24:20  <Darkvater> he well, we'll see it then, won't we :)
12:24:24  <Moacha> hey devTeam
12:24:28  <HMage> yup :)
12:25:22  <Darkvater> in either case I don't think they can change it signifcantly; a lot of customers will get angry
12:25:26  <Darkvater> hi Moacha
12:25:31  <HMage> Moacha: I'm behind NAT and I have no problems playing openttd.
12:26:12  <Brianetta> I'm bhind NAT and have no problems playing or hosting
12:26:30  <Darkvater> I'm on NAT as well and haven't had problems so far
12:26:46  <hylje> im not behind a NAT
12:26:52  <Darkvater> Moacha: #1 reason for desyncs is a different newgrf configuration
12:26:59  <Moacha> Is it normal there is no error output ? It just gets to the main menu
12:27:19  <Brianetta> You should normally see a red error box
12:27:33  <Brianetta> even if it just tells you that you had a synchronisation error
12:28:44  <HMage> does anyone know a link for "shoot yourself in the foot" programmer joke?
12:28:44  <Moacha> it doesn't show up.
12:29:01  <Moacha> I'll try reinstall.
12:29:18  <Darkvater> Moacha: you get desynced?
12:29:24  <hylje> HMage: foot in yourself shoot
12:29:28  <hylje> HMage: lemme look it up
12:29:31  <Moacha> I don't think so.
12:29:36  <HMage> hylje: don't worry. I've found it.
12:29:37  <Darkvater> Moacha: try running openttd as follows: "openttd -d net=9"
12:29:41  <Moacha> All is working more and less good
12:29:46  <Moacha> I try.
12:29:53  <hylje> :o
12:30:46  * Moacha connected. I wait a little while now.
12:30:49  <HMage>
12:31:21  *** Moacha [opera@] has left #openttd []
12:31:27  <HMage> er?
12:31:39  <HMage> looks like he disconnects from IRC too
12:31:54  *** Moacha [opera@] has joined #openttd
12:32:00  <HMage> Moacha: what happened?
12:32:29  <Moacha> I closed my irc cient.
12:32:34  <Darkvater> openttd bug!
12:32:39  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has joined #openttd
12:32:44  <Moacha> About that matter, I got disconnected with no special error. I paste, a sec.
12:32:46  <Darkvater> ey TB
12:32:47  <TrueBrain> Hi :)
12:32:58  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: please change topic, nightlies are being created as we speak
12:33:04  <TrueBrain> they are without freetype, but that will be fixed later today
12:33:06  <Darkvater> ]o/
12:33:25  <TrueBrain> also, the linux binaries will be nptlonly glibc compiled
12:33:33  *** Darkvater changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.8 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
12:33:34  <TrueBrain> (I have no idea if that can give problems on any system, but okay)
12:33:50  <Darkvater> 'nptlonly glibc'-what?
12:34:04  <hylje> glibc only goes nptl
12:34:23  <TrueBrain> Darkvater: old glibc had both modes: nptl (Native Possix Tblabla Linux something) and non-nptl
12:34:27  <Tron> Darkvater: Linux has an almost Posix conform threading library after N years
12:34:29  <Moacha> dbg: [NET] closed client connection
12:34:31  <TrueBrain> currently, the compile-farm is updated to only use nptl
12:34:56  <TrueBrain> (his glibc for all linux targets)
12:34:57  <Darkvater> so NyearPosixThreadingLibrary?
12:35:13  <Moacha> previous message ::  dbg: [NET] Received FRAME 390786
12:35:14  <Moacha> previous messages are all "received frame" type
12:35:15  <Darkvater> eh well
12:35:33  <TrueBrain> so, if you get any reports about that what so ever, let me know
12:35:36  <Darkvater> anyways..probably a good thing, right? :)
12:35:50  <TrueBrain> also, i386 linux binaries are gone
12:36:02  <Darkvater> Moacha: hmm this tells nothing. Try running a server locally or on another pc inside your local network to see if that works
12:36:03  <TrueBrain> (as glibc with nptlonly needs i486 or higher, so I picked i686 as lowest)
12:36:25  <Moacha> Is there debug file saved somewhere ?
12:36:38  <blathijs> Native Posix Thread Library IIRC
12:36:47  <TrueBrain> blathijs: works for me
12:37:06  <TrueBrain> openttd doesn't work with fontconfig 2.2
12:37:08  <TrueBrain> only with 2.3
12:37:11  <TrueBrain> nice to know :p
12:37:27  <Darkvater> Moacha: no
12:37:40  <TrueBrain> tokai: ping
12:37:40  <Tron> is the svn server at 1.4?
12:37:49  <Darkvater> << o_O we don't have icons for elrails
12:38:09  <TrueBrain> Tron: SVN 1.4 isn't stable in Gentoo, so no
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12:38:13  <Tron> what?
12:38:13  <Moacha> darkvater: ok thanks. Well, I think it may be my internet connection. I got timeout times to times for 1-3 seconds (ping -t ip.ip.ip.ip)
12:38:19  <Tron> it's even in Debian stable!
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12:38:25  *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC
12:38:30  <Tron> s/stable/testing/
12:38:41  <Tron> which is at least as good as gentoo stable
12:38:44  <TrueBrain> it is in Gentoo masked too :)
12:38:48  <TrueBrain> just not stable ;)
12:38:48  <blathijs> Package: subversion
12:38:51  <blathijs> Version: 1.1.4-2
12:39:03  <TrueBrain> mostly means it has outstanding bug-reports
12:39:04  <blathijs> oh wait, testing :-)
12:39:15  <Moacha> darkvater : can it be fixed changing "keep alive client" setting of openttd?
12:39:52  <Darkvater> o/
12:40:30  <Darkvater> Moacha: you can increase the lag-time, but the default value works for everyone though. And it won't help you with joining other server
12:40:52  <peter1138> night shots? heh
12:41:01  <peter1138> that city is too dark
12:41:27  <Moacha> ok, good-to-know. Thank you for answers.
12:42:35  <peter1138> stupid c#
12:42:41  <peter1138> doesn't support #if 0
12:42:52  <peter1138> but does #if somedefine
12:42:58  <Moacha> night view screenshot are beautiful.
12:44:28  <Triffid_Hunter> peter1138: use #ifdef keyboardmash then ;)
12:45:18  <peter1138> quite
12:45:31  <peter1138> it doesn't support ifdef though, heh
12:45:37  <peter1138> i just did #if false
12:45:42  <peter1138> and hope that "false" isn't defined :)
12:46:11  <Triffid_Hunter> even if it's defined, it should still evaluate to false
12:46:24  <blathijs> #if != #ifdef
12:46:32  <blathijs> at least in C, can' say about C# ;-)
12:46:51  <Darkvater> he, try that with Java, it doesn't even have #ifdefs
12:47:24  <peter1138> blathijs: indeed, it's not like that in c#
12:47:33  <peter1138> in c#, a define doesn't have a value
12:47:38  <peter1138> it is either defined or not defined
12:47:54  <valhallasw> #if bullshittermthatdoesntexist
12:47:55  <valhallasw> :+
12:47:56  <blathijs> so #if is actually #ifdef and #ifdef doesn't exist?
12:48:01  <peter1138> sort of
12:48:05  <blathijs> #if definethisanddie
12:48:15  <peter1138> "#if false" and "#if true" do actually work as expected
12:48:21  <peter1138> and you can't #define false
12:48:27  <hylje> #define false true
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12:48:29  <blathijs> unless someone says #define false 0 ?
12:48:43  <blathijs> oh, you can't...
12:48:48  <peter1138> "in c#, a define doesn't have a value"
12:49:01  <tokai> TrueBrain: pong
12:49:38  <TrueBrain> tokai: we found a GCC 4.0.3 version for morphos.. any good to upgrade to that? Or should we keep 2.95.3? :)
12:50:18  <tokai> keep old version
12:50:22  <TrueBrain> clear ;)
12:51:35  <tokai> this newer gccs exists since ages, but they are only good for experiments or lazy developers which don't know how to make proper code which works with gcc 2.95.x. ;)
12:52:15  <HMage> newer visual studios also exist since ages, tho nobody thought about keeping msvc6 portability :)
12:52:35  <HMage> (it's a joke, don't take seriously)
12:52:40  <Darkvater> and here I go thinking that developers were persons
12:52:42  <hylje> :o
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12:52:50  <tokai> well.. if newer visual studios create working code there is no problem with that i guess;)
12:53:04  <HMage> gcc 4 doesn't?
12:53:11  <Darkvater> newer gcc don't generate working code for morphos?
12:53:19  <tokai> for ppc platform.
12:53:25  <tokai> and such things are deadly on morphos
12:53:33  <Darkvater> so why is there a port then for morphos?
12:53:41  <tokai> on linux you might just have a segfaulting app
12:53:49  <tokai> on morphos it can crash whole OS ;)
12:53:56  <HMage> btw, tokai, can you test if there's setlocale() on morphos standard library?
12:54:14  <tokai> Darkvater: for lazy developers which can't adopt code from other oses to gcc 2.95.x
12:54:23  <Darkvater> tokai: well that says more about the crappiness of morphos then about a segfaulting app
12:54:25  <tokai> HMage: there is. it returns an empty string
12:54:44  <peter1138> so basically... morphos is utter shit?
12:54:45  <HMage> tokai: if you call it with (LC_ALL, NULL)?
12:54:55  <tokai> Darkvater: what has morphos crapyness todo with gcc3.x/4.x crapyness? :)
12:55:04  <peter1138> ...
12:55:05  <Darkvater> peter1138: I'd say somewhere on the level of win95
12:55:44  <tokai> morphos crapyness helps u to write proper apps:)
12:56:17  <tokai> HMage: no idea.. need to test.
12:56:27  <peter1138> do the systems that morphos run on not have an mmu?
12:56:40  <hylje> :o
12:57:11  <Darkvater> tokai: if a faulty app crashes your whole OS then the OS is crappy not the application or the compiler that compiled the application
12:57:58  <tokai> Darkvater: not really. its still the apps fault.
12:58:26  <tokai> actually it doesnt crash the whole OS, but just the abox (which makes most of the OS atm. ;)
12:58:29  <Darkvater> you totally turned it around
12:59:00  <Darkvater> I am not disputing that it's the apps fault, but the OS really needs to handle such things gracefully
12:59:05  <tokai> Darkvater: w/o doubth missing memory protection is bad, but thats on of the sacrificies which had to be accepted to have amigaos compatibility
12:59:12  <HMage> Darkvater: but that's how people will see that. If all other programs work ok on that OS, and some new program that you might have no need to use crashes your whole os, it's percievable that the program is responsible for whole OS crash.
12:59:23  <Darkvater> not like crappy win95 which can only be rebooted when i close the openttd-console window and thereby kill the application
12:59:52  <tokai> anyway... morphos boots in less than 10s, so a crash isn't that bad ;)
13:00:20  <tokai> crashing windows or OSX (i experienced both) is more evil as it takes ages to reboot (if it still reboots that is ;)
13:00:51  <hylje> :o
13:01:02  <tokai> HMage: well.. the test prog had LC_ALL, NULL.. and that returned "" ;)
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13:01:07  <peter1138> they only properly crash due to hardware problems or dodgy drivers
13:01:18  <peter1138> which is not really the OS's fault
13:01:24  <HMage> so your applications use system locale by default, not the "C" locale?
13:02:32  <tokai> HMage: i guess. i have no idea what setlocale really does.
13:02:37  <HMage> tokai: do you have any information which locales are avaliable on morphos?
13:02:40  <tokai> wait.. i'll check the clib src
13:03:04  <HMage> tokai: setlocale sets the locale. it should be "C" by default as per ISO/ANSI C.
13:03:09  <Darkvater> HMage: don't think that's how people see it. Everyone was bitching at windows when it crashed whereis in about 90% of the cases it was the application's fault
13:03:13  <tokai> HMage: a whole bunch, but the list differs from what openttd offers
13:03:29  <HMage> tokai: is there ru_RU anywhere?
13:05:21  <tokai> HMage: checked the source. it checks for OS settings, and defaults to NULL which is same as "C" it says in a comment.
13:05:32  <tokai> HMage: russian?
13:05:40  <HMage> tokai: yes.
13:05:44  <tokai> no
13:05:50  <tokai> only inofficial
13:06:30  <TrueBrain> tokai: asking for fontconfig and freetype on morphos is I guess not an option? :)
13:07:15  <HMage> Darkvater: it became fashionable to bitch at windows. Though I saw many times personally that people blamed software, not windows 95. It's like in audio engineering - you can't say to anyone that their audio equipment is not good enough, people will just buy another disc not engineered by you.
13:07:43  <tokai> TrueBrain: no idea what fontconfig is. freetype is possible as static link library for now (we have a unreleased shared version too, but not for end users).
13:07:47  <HMage> tokai: do you have wfopen()?
13:08:07  <TrueBrain> tokai: okay, so I might bug you about that somewhere in the future :)
13:08:48  <Darkvater> HMage: it could be fashionable but you expect an OS not to crash just because an application has a bug.
13:08:54  <tokai> HMage: no idea. gimmy an example sniplet i can compile to see ;)
13:10:12  <Darkvater> FILE *f = wfopen("bla", "wb");
13:10:22  <Darkvater> L"bla" even
13:10:24  <hylje> s/wf/wtf/
13:13:40  <tokai> HMage: no
13:14:10  <Darkvater> HMage: isn't wfopen windows-only?
13:15:40  <HMage> Darkvater: it's standard C
13:15:48  <Darkvater> man wfopen: no entry found
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13:17:24  <peter1138> there's no wfopen on my system
13:17:41  <tokai> HMage: anyway.. out setlocale() seems to be broken ;)  but no problem in using it.
13:17:54  <tokai> (in openttd, if required.. i mean)
13:18:02  <peter1138> vs 2005 doesn't appear to be aware of it either
13:18:10  <Darkvater> peter1138: _wfopen
13:18:17  <peter1138> ah
13:18:32  <peter1138> silly ms
13:18:40  <Darkvater> vs2k5 better be aware about it, since it's used in openttd :)
13:19:01  <peter1138> yes, _wfopen
13:19:09  <peter1138> but you're talking about wfopen, heh
13:19:34  * Darkvater points at HMage
13:21:06  <HMage> Darkvater: you have to "#define wfopen _wfopen" inside #ifdef _WIN32
13:21:46  <Darkvater> with that argument everything works :)
13:21:51  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
13:22:17  <HMage> Darkvater: same as you did with snprintf
13:22:59  <Darkvater> the point is... my linux doesn't have wfopen
13:23:36  <Darkvater>
13:23:37  <Darkvater> lol
13:24:27  <hylje> :D
13:26:20  <peter1138> otoh, linux doesn't care
13:26:25  <peter1138> "#define wfopen fopen" ;p
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13:29:57  <Darkvater> DannyA: you were asking something before you left, weren't you?
13:29:58  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
13:37:30  <DannyA> Do you mean just now or a few hours back?
13:38:04  <Darkvater> this morning
13:38:26  <Darkvater> ah wait, I know
13:38:28  <Darkvater> LIBC.lib
13:38:30  <DannyA> Just now I was looking at the web based IRC clent from the chat button, but couldn't join this channel & asked about that...
13:39:14  <Darkvater> if you have libc.lib troubles then update to the latest openttd-useful package ( you can find it from a link on > development)
13:39:27  <DannyA> Yeah, this morning it was the LIBC.lib which it wanted to use to compile with. It can't find it with my install, and there are only 64bit versions of this file in the PlatformSDC_r2 dir.
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13:39:49  <DannyA> OK I'll have a look at that.
13:40:22  <Darkvater> cause the old libs (zlib/png) used single-threaded libraries
13:40:26  <DannyA> I think a few things got screwed up when I tried installing team over the Pro version, and that's why I wanted to run it in a VM - to avoid this Shxxx
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14:00:47  *** buggy [~pocketirc@] has joined #openttd
14:01:22  <buggy> hello humankinds
14:01:38  <buggy> i came with peace
14:01:42  <buggy> )
14:02:24  <buggy> ia there anyone ?
14:03:09  <Darkvater> *chaaaaaaaarge* and the alien scum gets slaughtered
14:03:32  <buggy> i just wanted to thank you for great game
14:03:56  <buggy> ))
14:04:07  <Brianetta> It's all his fault
14:04:10  * Brianetta points at Darkvater
14:04:15  <Darkvater> thanks accepted
14:04:24  <peter1138> gah
14:04:28  <peter1138> problem with vs2005
14:04:34  * Darkvater forwards a part of the kudos to ludde, CS and the rest of the dev-team
14:04:42  <peter1138> is instead of vim new<tab>.c
14:04:48  <peter1138> i have to scroll this stupidly long list...
14:04:56  <Darkvater> :O
14:05:07  <Darkvater> I alwas do: CTRL+O and type filename
14:05:40  <peter1138> vim really is nicer, heh
14:06:26  <peter1138> 			LoadNextSprite(first_sprite + j, _file_index); // XXX
14:06:35  <peter1138> any idea what the XXX is for? ;p
14:06:55  <buggy> vim is really great thing - i wounder how i lived before
14:07:14  <buggy> xxx is often stands 4 porno )
14:07:21  <Darkvater> haha
14:07:34  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
14:08:33  <buggy> are you using code style guide in your projects?
14:08:51  <Darkvater> yes
14:09:06  <ln-> 16:03 < buggy> i just wanted to thank you for great game  <--- thank chris sawyer.
14:09:12  <peter1138> ah, it's from tron's rewrite of it
14:09:20  <Tron_> hm?
14:09:22  <Darkvater> hehe
14:10:25  <buggy> i ment - thnx 4 porting this great game
14:10:48  <Tron_> peter1138: hm?
14:10:53  <Darkvater> OMG
14:10:59  <Darkvater>
14:11:15  <Darkvater> the guy wrote a post-commit script for SVN just to execute an 'svn update'
14:11:33  <buggy> )
14:11:41  <Darkvater> eh post-commit C program
14:11:49  <buggy> lol
14:11:52  <peter1138> Tron_: just looking for a reason for a stray // XXX ...
14:12:19  <ln-> who has authorized committing a line with a comment containing only "XXX"?!?
14:12:29  <peter1138> tron :)
14:12:54  <Brianetta> Maybe he committed that newgrf with the naked girls on all the vehicles, to trunk
14:12:54  <ln-> tron had better hide before Tron notices this..
14:13:30  <Tron_> "if I use a XXX it means exactly what I choose it to mean, nothing more or less" (loosly based on something Humpty Dumpty said)
14:14:11  <Tron_> peter1138: where is it?
14:15:14  <buggy> guys - can i be helpful for your project? i'me oracle pl/sql programmer with user skills of *nix
14:15:37  <peter1138> newgrf.c:2513
14:16:13  <Darkvater> buggy: afaik we don't use any database system in openttd :)
14:16:22  <peter1138> Tron_: it's not important, though :)
14:16:54  <buggy> so what about game via inet?
14:17:20  <buggy> where intermediate datum are stured?
14:17:28  <buggy> *stored
14:17:39  <Darkvater> well we do have some problems with intermittent desyncs...
14:18:18  <buggy> intermittent desyncs? whats this?
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14:19:30  <Darkvater> buggy: well, random desyncs
14:19:41  <Darkvater> but it's either something deep internal or user-error
14:19:49  <Tron_> Darkvater: don't you think we should store the tile information in a relational database?
14:20:19  <Darkvater> Get count(tile) where trees>3
14:20:31  <Darkvater> I mean SELECT
14:20:32  <Darkvater> he
14:20:38  <Darkvater> and FROM map
14:21:00  * Darkvater should stop doing sql, it just shows how pathetic his skills are
14:21:45  <Tron_> Postgres is nice, it's "object relational"
14:21:50  <Tron_> so we can have a tile table
14:21:58  <Darkvater> buggy: appreciate the offer but ottd really doesn't use any database, except for the website. So the best thing you can do is play the game and spread the word *D
14:22:05  <Tron_> and derive tree_tile, clear_tile, water_tile, ... tables from it
14:23:45  <buggy> <Darkvater> ) i just wanted be helpful for opensource community
14:24:51  *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26:54  <blathijs> Tron_: We can then throw away our network protocol too, and just use postgresq;
14:26:59  <Darkvater> buggy: no problem :)
14:27:01  <blathijs> Tron_: We can then throw away our network protocol too, and just use postgresq's network protocol :-)
14:27:53  <Brianetta> blathijs: With a MySQL alternatice? (-:
14:27:56  <Tron_> OpenTTD = Open Transactional Tycoon Deluxe
14:28:05  <Tron_> Brianetta: no, it's not ACID
14:28:19  <Brianetta> It is a little faster, though
14:28:23  <Brianetta> but yeah
14:28:52  <buggy> where are you're from, heroes?
14:29:04  <Tron_> Brianetta: come again when you have seen >100 concurrent write accesses on the DB
14:29:33  <Brianetta> Mine only reach 20-50
14:30:41  <Darkvater> buggy: Almost everyone is from Europe with a big(ger) concentration in Holland/UK/Germany
14:30:46  <buggy> <Brianetta> what kind of system? telephony?
14:31:36  <Brianetta> buggy: no.  Single server handling intranet and a few databases which are accessed exclusively through Access.  Inventory database, job vacancies handling, etc.
14:31:42  *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@] has joined #openttd
14:31:48  <Darkvater> wb KUDr_wrk
14:31:57  <KUDr_wrk> thanks, master
14:33:03  <DannyA> Well, I'm off to bed, catch ya later people & enjoy your transactional tycooning etc...:)
14:34:28  <peter1138> does mysql still do full table locking on updates?
14:34:38  <buggy> <Brianetta> i'm involved in ip-telephony project. Currently developing db scema - and we're planing to have more than 100 concurrent session at a time. I'm scared )
14:35:00  *** mikk36[EST] [] has joined #openttd
14:35:14  <buggy> <peter1138> no more science 5 version
14:35:59  <buggy> *since
14:36:15  *** mikk36 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:37:03  <peter1138> that's pretty recent ;p
14:37:03  <buggy> agggrh! pocket pc virtual keyboard is intolerable
14:37:09  <peter1138> heh, yes
14:37:41  <Darkvater> buggy: are you playing ottd on the ppc?
14:38:14  <buggy> not yet ) searching for needed files from ttd
14:38:35  <Darkvater> ah... what version are you planning to play?
14:39:03  * peter1138 suggests someone makes head work
14:39:04  <Darkvater> oh wait, you haven't played yet
14:39:19  <buggy> <Darkvater> the last one accepteble for downloading
14:39:19  * Darkvater was curious about the port
14:39:32  <Brianetta> buggy: Transcriber is good.
14:39:51  *** TheDancinZerg [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:40:19  <buggy> <Darkvater> i've played only on winxp
14:40:24  <buggy> before
14:41:29  <buggy> <Brianetta> Transcriber is better, but my one doesn't recognize latin letters
14:41:40  <buggy> only russian (
14:42:51  <peter1138> hmm
14:42:54  <peter1138> which reminds me
14:43:17  <buggy> <peter1138> huh?
14:43:19  <peter1138> i wonder if the ttdrussia forums people have anything to say about utf8...
14:44:05  <Darkvater> they might be pissed cause it already worked and now they have issues
14:44:23  <peter1138> heh
14:44:53  <Darkvater> it's just that the forums are in russian.. cannot read
14:44:59  <peter1138> indeed
14:45:08  <peter1138> ah, there's a UTF8 post
14:45:18  <peter1138> of course
14:45:21  <peter1138> that doesn't help much ;p
14:45:38  <Darkvater> hmm is it just the network that is slow, or is windows totally stupid when I sort a network-directory by created-date
14:45:39  <buggy> <peter1138> yep - i heard something about troubles with fonts itself on pcs under linux - but it seems 2 me that problem is in curvious of hands of users
14:45:41  <Darkvater> got link?
14:46:56  <buggy> <Darkvater> no...
14:46:57  <peter1138>
14:47:01  <buggy> yeap
14:47:07  <buggy> 5 mins
14:47:32  <Darkvater> no to what?
14:47:43  <peter1138> i still don't know if WT2 is set up for allowing utf8 'n stuff
14:47:58  <peter1138> especially the existing russian translation needs to be dumped
14:48:02  <Darkvater> didn't MiHaMiX change that?
14:48:30  <peter1138> i don't know, i don't have any access on wt2
14:48:47  <peter1138> plus it totally doesn't work in IE
14:48:59  <Darkvater> hmm they do talk about etting the font and freetype
14:49:04  <ln-> peter1138: btw, there used to be a complete russian, cyrillic, translation of ottd.
14:49:11  <Darkvater> and lots of smilies
14:49:19  <peter1138> Darkvater: yeah :)
14:49:27  <Darkvater> so I'd say they're positive ;p
14:49:33  <Darkvater> HMage: can you translate for us?
14:50:05  <peter1138> ln-: if it's in a standard character encoding, in theory we can just iconv it...
14:50:07  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: ping
14:51:02  * peter1138 looks
14:53:45  <ln-> peter1138: it was in one of the standard encodings...
14:54:02  <peter1138> transfer rate: 9.11KB/s
14:54:02  <peter1138> :/
14:55:35  <buggy> <Darkvater> hmm... i've read the topic. nothing serious. they're writing bout troubles after merging utf8 branch with trunc... the problem is russian (cyrilic) letters stopped to display normaly
14:56:08  <buggy> <Darkvater> so - how can i understand from topic they found decision by themselves
14:56:31  <Darkvater> that's good :)
14:57:39  <buggy> have you ported any other games/programs ? i could be help you with the localisation
14:58:04  <buggy>  i could be help -> i could help
14:58:46  <buggy> ) my english brakes when i'm feeling nervous
14:59:22  <buggy> * went smoking
14:59:45  <Darkvater> haha
15:00:58  <buggy> <Darkvater> don't be cruel ) i'm new to irc
15:01:09  <peter1138> we can tell
15:01:19  <peter1138> all those <Darkvater>s look like you're quoting him :)
15:01:31  <peter1138> *sigh*
15:01:40  <peter1138> 4.23MB of 4.94MB "copied"
15:01:46  <peter1138> 6.34KB/s
15:02:10  <Brianetta> 15:01:55 (67.51 KB/s) - Read error at byte 253864116/730036224 (Connection reset by peer).
15:02:18  <peter1138> ok
15:02:20  <peter1138> i'll shut up
15:02:25  <Darkvater> buggy: weren't you gone smoking?
15:02:42  <Brianetta> 129.00K/s atm
15:02:44  <Brianetta> not bad
15:03:13  <Brianetta> I already downloaded the entire thing, for the md5 check to fail ):
15:06:20  <buggy> i'm here again
15:07:06  *** Tron__ [] has joined #openttd
15:07:31  <peter1138> three trons
15:08:00  <buggy> <peter1138> i just thought it's a kind of adressing
15:08:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> is there anything bad about the number of 3?
15:08:19  <Brianetta> buggy: Normally, we address like this
15:08:24  <Brianetta> buggy, or like this
15:08:39  <Brianetta> <peter1138> we can tell
15:08:44  <Brianetta> That was me quoting peter1138
15:09:11  <Brianetta> We quote like that because its easy to copy and paste
15:09:18  <buggy> Brianetta: thanks for guiding me into irc world
15:09:31  <Brianetta> no problem
15:09:57  <Brianetta>
15:10:41  *** Netsplit <-> quits: _42_, Tron_, ZBServer, imachine, Prof_Frink, @Darkvater
15:10:41  <buggy> can anyone suggest me irc-client for windows mobile ?
15:11:09  <Brianetta>
15:11:21  *** Netsplit over, joins: Prof_Frink
15:11:27  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
15:11:27  *** Netsplit over, joins: Darkvater
15:12:47  <Darkvater> hmm I have 4200/660 cable connection atm... think I should downgrade to 1600/330?
15:12:55  <Darkvater> it'd save me about 13 euros a month
15:13:03  <Brianetta> If you want
15:13:16  <Darkvater> he
15:13:19  <Naksu> Darkvater: is 13 euros a month a lot for you?
15:13:46  *** Netsplit over, joins: imachine, _42_, ZBServer
15:13:56  <Darkvater> well, considering I'm still studying and I have to pay it... I could put it to better use
15:14:00  <Darkvater> but it doesn't kill me
15:14:12  <buggy> 13 e in months = 156 e per year
15:14:17  <Darkvater> just thinking it might be a waste of money cause I don't download that much anymore
15:14:25  <buggy> sounds great
15:14:35  <Brianetta> svn syncs (:
15:14:46  <Brianetta> Google video
15:14:49  <Brianetta> YouTube
15:14:57  <Brianetta> shoutcast
15:14:59  <buggy> emule
15:15:07  <Brianetta> all those Linux ISOs
15:15:10  <Darkvater> well it is true that HD-previews work flawlessly atm
15:15:11  <buggy> xxx )
15:15:35  <buggy> HD-previews ?
15:15:49  <Darkvater> trailers, previews, etc. in HD-format
15:16:28  <Darkvater> hmm or I could switch back to ADSL 14,95 for 614/768
15:16:34  <Darkvater> 6144 even
15:17:23  <buggy> my adsl 256k costs 30$ per month 4 me
15:17:45  <buggy> 2b exactly 25$
15:19:19  <buggy> 4 thouse who'll understand )
15:19:42  <Darkvater> hmm...yeah I might go back to ADSL
15:19:43  <glx> buggy: please use proper english :)
15:20:28  <Darkvater> buggy: a bit expensive; come to holland ;)
15:20:31  <buggy> glx: 2 use such kind of speach (numbers instead of words) is unproper?
15:20:39  <Darkvater> yes
15:20:55  <buggy> Darkvater: with a great pleasure
15:21:23  <buggy>  Darkvater:if i only have a chance
15:22:18  <Darkvater> gonna call Casema today to cancel my subscription ^^
15:22:52  <buggy> Casema? is this your provider?
15:22:58  <Darkvater> yes
15:22:59  <Darkvater> cable
15:23:14  <buggy> can you give me the url?
15:23:24  <Darkvater>
15:23:30  <buggy> for price comparison
15:24:44  <buggy> nl? holland?
15:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, i love my DSL-light connection...
15:25:39  <Darkvater> yes
15:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> twice the speed would cost the same thing
15:25:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> just i can't get it...
15:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> too far away
15:26:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's actually a wonder i even got light
15:26:40  <Darkvater> :)
15:26:53  <glx> same for me, I can't get more than 5MB because too far away from the central (the max would be 24MB)
15:27:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> for over 5 years, they told me i could not get DSL at all
15:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> then all of a sudden, it was offered
15:28:02  <Darkvater> could be that they rolled out ADSL2
15:29:07  <buggy> rolled out?
15:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> 24MB? not even my LAN has that :p
15:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think they did anything to the cables
15:29:40  <buggy> to roll out - what does it means?
15:29:48  <Darkvater> put into service
15:29:54  <buggy> txs
15:30:01  <buggy> *thnks
15:30:06  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause3: they don't have to, just update the modems at the central and those of the clients
15:30:26  <Darkvater> adsl and adsl2 (24mb) are all over the good ol' copper wires
15:30:32  <glx> Eddi|zuHause3: oops wrong unit (indeed it's up to 28Mbps :) )
15:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but afaic, adsl2 is only for even shorter lines
15:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> s/c/k
15:31:48  <Darkvater> max they got here offered is 20mbps
15:32:07  <Darkvater> *shuffle words*
15:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> the even worse porblem is, that all short lines in east germany are done with fibre
15:32:37  <Darkvater> why's that bad?
15:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> because they won't offer broad band connections for that
15:32:59  <Darkvater> :O
15:33:03  <buggy> central - you mean telephony station of provide or something else?
15:33:17  <Darkvater> yes
15:33:59  <buggy> hope that moscow will hear about adsl2... someday... in a next century
15:34:21  <Darkvater> hehe :)
15:34:31  <Darkvater> it is ideal in a big city
15:35:16  <buggy> our provider are fully satisfied with regular adsl (
15:35:17  <Darkvater> although ADSL2 is only a hype. It was already possible, just perhaps the modems were too expensive. They can even do ADSL3 if they want to, the copper wire still has a lot of frequencies left
15:35:42  <buggy> hehe
15:37:21  <buggy> here is physical task - what's the maximum transmitting ability of cooper wire? )
15:38:10  <Darkvater> donnu
15:38:11  <buggy> devide the result into 10 - and you'll know how much X left after ADSL [X]
15:39:22  <buggy> i just wanted to say that currently adsl speed is about 10-15% of maximum available
15:39:35  <buggy> theoretical available
15:40:08  <glx> 50/25 for VDSL
15:41:16  <buggy> nevermind
15:42:50  <buggy> i meant little other... all thouse "management" trying to sell yesterday's technologies with tomorrow prices
15:43:26  <hylje> they want monies
15:43:28  <Darkvater> that is universal :)
15:43:30  <hylje> not necessarily progress
15:43:41  * peter1138 pats his 8 mbit adsl
15:45:12  <buggy> for example - i work for a provider company... they sell dial-ups! just imagine to yourselfs - DIAL-UPS!! in a xxi century
15:45:36  <buggy> not adsl, not vdsl - dial-up!
15:46:35  <hylje> cough. aol.
15:46:51  <Darkvater> ah come on; dial-ups were fun
15:46:59  <hylje> we have dial-ups as well, but all civilized areas are now adsl eligible
15:47:13  <Darkvater> peep-peeep-brrrsshsdp-peeeep-peep-peep-eep *redial*
15:47:26  <peter1138> heh
15:47:41  <peter1138> i wonder who i was texting...
15:47:46  <buggy> therefore moscow is not among in civilized areas
15:51:19  <peter1138> mmm, mint aero
15:51:51  <buggy> oh guys, it was fun with you but i have to go - my boss is looking on my mastrubation with hpc with unkind smile
15:51:58  <hylje> :o
15:52:04  *** scia [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:53:51  <buggy> see ya in evening - we've got one open question about my participating in localisation
15:54:10  <buggy> if you only need
15:54:14  <peter1138> hmm?
15:54:39  <peter1138> well we need a russian translation...
15:55:00  <buggy> so i'll be glad to do it
15:55:40  *** Spoco [] has quit []
15:56:28  <buggy> we'll discuss the details in evening . see ya once more
15:56:34  *** buggy [~pocketirc@] has quit [Quit: Pocket IRC 1.2 ( UNREGISTERED]
15:56:44  <Darkvater> unregistered :O
15:57:18  <hylje> i wonder why he hasnt cracked it yet
15:57:23  <hylje> russia after all
15:57:45  <peter1138> hehe
15:58:51  <HMage> looks like I've missed my russian comrade :p
15:59:03  * HMage is back from shops
15:59:04  *** Spoco [] has joined #openttd
15:59:55  * HMage pokes Darkvater.
15:59:58  * Darkvater thinks HMage was hiding
16:00:01  <HMage> Darkvater: I can translate
16:00:20  <HMage> but I think there's already a translation done by team
16:00:36  <peter1138> i think he meant the page
16:00:41  <peter1138> otoh
16:00:49  <HMage> ah, the page. Which page?
16:00:50  <peter1138> we want that translation
16:01:03  <Darkvater> buggy already did it though
16:01:11  <peter1138> in utf8, of course :D
16:01:59  <HMage> regarding missing wfopen() in linux I'd like to investigate that.
16:02:42  <Darkvater> HMage: why? it's not needed on linux
16:03:10  <HMage> oh, right. just use setlocale()
16:03:23  <HMage> or not.
16:03:24  <Darkvater> ?
16:03:31  <Darkvater> what do you want wfopen for?
16:03:41  <HMage> for specifying filenames in unicode
16:03:55  <Darkvater> because?
16:04:22  <HMage> there might a name that contains both english, russian, japanese and turish character.
16:04:32  <Darkvater> yes?
16:04:41  <Darkvater> I don't get what you are trying to do
16:05:00  <HMage> 8 bits are not enough
16:05:10  <peter1138> yes they are
16:05:13  <Darkvater> peter1138: do you know what he's talking about?
16:05:41  <peter1138> utf8 fits in 8 bits, heh
16:06:07  <Darkvater> HMage: using normal fopen() and iconv it just works
16:06:26  <Darkvater> except for windows of course because it has to be special
16:08:31  <Naksu> isn't that kinda hack-ish?
16:09:08  <Darkvater> no because you want to convert from the game's internal charset to the filesystem charset
16:09:31  <Darkvater> although it doesn't matter (for me) because both OTTD and my locale are UTF8
16:10:31  <HMage> filesystem charset is usually unicode
16:11:05  <peter1138> linux (and probably other unix) filesystems are characterset agnostic
16:11:13  <peter1138> it's just a stream of characters
16:12:11  <HMage> afaik in unicode, so that can be translated into any charset user requires (internally, using libc)
16:12:53  <peter1138> it's perfectly possible to have mixed encoding filenames in one directory...
16:13:02  *** Sionide [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:13:06  <HMage> since linux (ext2 and reiserfs) did allow me to have a file, which name contained english, russian, japanese and turkish in one string
16:13:28  <peter1138> sure
16:13:33  <peter1138> you can do that with utf8...
16:14:08  <HMage> then why iconv?
16:14:38  <peter1138> if a user's locale is not utf-8, it needs to be converted
16:14:44  <peter1138> well, not really "needs"
16:14:50  <peter1138> just a little nicer
16:15:32  <Darkvater> jeee
16:15:38  <Darkvater> homegoingtimeisnow
16:15:43  <Darkvater> \o/
16:17:18  <HMage> why convert? each conversion is possible loss of infomation
16:17:38  <HMage> or am I missing something?
16:18:06  <Brianetta> You're missing something.
16:18:15  <peter1138> if your system is not set up for utf8, you'll see the utf8 encoding in the filename
16:18:19  <Brianetta> The conversion only affects how the character set is displayed.
16:18:38  <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta, no
16:18:50  <KUDr_wrk> it affects how the name is stored
16:19:09  <KUDr_wrk> and some localized chars can be lost
16:19:14  <Brianetta> There's more than one way to store a filename?
16:19:27  <KUDr_wrk> if they don't fit into local codepage
16:19:47  <KUDr_wrk> filename is just stream of 8 bit characterd
16:19:53  <KUDr_wrk> d->s
16:20:12  <KUDr_wrk> so you can store ther what you like
16:20:31  <peter1138> i didn't bother with iconv myself
16:20:40  <peter1138> it was already there for the UTF-8-MAC conversion thing
16:20:40  <KUDr_wrk> but if you lost the information, you are never able to get back what you have stored
16:20:45  <peter1138> correctly
16:20:48  <peter1138> but it's only a filename :)
16:20:53  <peter1138> -ly
16:21:21  <peter1138> i think by default iconv isn't used
16:22:31  <HMage> I thought that filenames were stored in unicode-16 in linux
16:22:39  <peter1138> you thought wrong
16:22:50  <Brianetta> Well, there might be a unicode16 filesystem
16:23:00  <Brianetta> but it's not the normal one
16:23:28  <peter1138> well, in general filesystems decide how to store data, and don't concern themselves with filename encodings etc
16:23:39  <peter1138> but then there's all the cp rubbish for fat support
16:23:50  <peter1138> but then, that's probably there because windows does it
16:23:54  <peter1138> but then!
16:24:17  <HMage> pter, fat32 stores in unicode, open in disk editor please and see that for yourself
16:24:25  <ln-> as i said, there already is a more-or-less complete cyrillic russian translation;
16:24:41  <HMage> peter*
16:24:41  <peter1138> HMage, i didn't say it doesn't
16:25:02  <peter1138> ln-: thanks, but that's not the source language file
16:25:22  <ln-> peter1138: are you saying you can't find it?
16:25:26  <peter1138> no
16:25:31  <peter1138> well, actually i can't
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16:25:40  <peter1138> because i can't read russian
16:25:57  <HMage> that's's translation, you should ask them (or I can ask them)
16:26:15  <ln-> peter1138: back then it was googlable® without knowing russian.
16:26:39  <peter1138> "back then"
16:26:56  <ln-> some years ago.
16:27:16  <peter1138> so it's a more or less complete translation that's "some years" old?
16:27:18  <peter1138> useful ;p
16:27:35  <peter1138> anyway, i'm downloading, cos it's in there, iirc
16:27:41  <peter1138> but it's downloading at 2.83KB/s
16:27:47  <peter1138> modem-like
16:28:04  <Naksu> peter1138: is there any chance you're using a modem?
16:28:05  <ln-> it must be your lousy lines in britain.
16:28:12  <Naksu> or that
16:29:09  <peter1138> ok, the file is correct anyway
16:29:10  <peter1138> *sigh*
16:29:26  <peter1138> errr
16:29:29  <peter1138> corrupt
16:29:32  <peter1138> bloody keyboard
16:29:37  <KUDr_wrk> whole Russia is connected thru 28kbps modem
16:29:43  <peter1138> seems to be
16:29:54  <Naksu> not true
16:30:13  <Naksu> there's this FTP in russia that gives at least about 2 mbps :)
16:30:57  <KUDr_wrk> Naksu: .ru domain doesn't mean _in_ Russia
16:31:01  <peter1138> so anyway...
16:31:07  <Naksu> KUDr_wrk: true
16:32:12  <ln-> peter1138: do you intend to commit it?
16:32:32  <peter1138> no, as i don't have it
16:32:53  <ln-> you said you're downloading it
16:33:04  <peter1138> i also said the file is corrupt
16:33:09  <peter1138> (the zip file)
16:33:44  <peter1138> Zip archive data, at least v2.0 to extract
16:33:45  <HMage> peter1138: give me the link, I'll dl it quickly
16:33:54  <peter1138> note: may be a plain executable, not an archive
16:34:19  <peter1138>
16:34:34  <peter1138> link from that page, 0.4.7 source
16:34:46  <peter1138> can't see an obvious source link for 0.4.8
16:34:52  <ln-> hold on
16:34:56  <peter1138> or just the language file
16:35:09  <HMage> is a free hosting service, they limit transfers to 3kb/sec as a penalty
16:35:10  <peter1138> and of course it might not even be the right one, heh
16:35:37  <peter1138> hehe
16:35:48  <ln-> peter1138: btw, i'm download ~25kB/s from the site, so it must be your slow british modem lines...
16:36:47  <HMage> beware, russian.txt will be encoded in windows-1251, you'll have to reencode into utf8
16:37:02  <peter1138> i have iconv...
16:37:38  <HMage> 8.4 Kb/sec here.
16:38:35  <HMage> oh, it's AGAVA. they have lousy lines.
16:38:58  <ln-> ok, i have the .lng file for 0.4.8, but no .txt
16:39:06  *** enra [~enra@] has quit []
16:41:18  <ln-> is there a reverse of strgen?
16:41:44  <peter1138> no
16:54:51  <ln-> peter1138: the file unzipped fine for me..
16:55:08  <ln-> the 0.4.7
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16:56:45  <peter1138> i guess the download stopped
16:56:53  <peter1138> and is there a russian.txt in there?
16:57:01  <ln-> positive.
16:57:12  <ln-> i iconved it to utf-8, and ...
16:57:22  <ln-> ... and all i see in ottd is questionmarks?
16:57:55  <ln-> the file itself is ok;
16:57:56  <ln-> STR_0011_MAIL                                                   :?????
16:57:57  <ln-> STR_0012_OIL                                                    :?????
16:58:39  <ln->
16:59:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> you might need to load the russian glyph grf, or a proper font
16:59:30  *** Jhs [] has quit [Quit: g2g]
17:00:21  <peter1138> urgh, it's tabbed ;p
17:00:52  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
17:01:29  <peter1138> ln-,
17:01:51  <peter1138> although freetype with a nice font gives nicer output
17:02:21  <ln-> why isn't the grf file in svn, and what do i need to do to enable freetype?
17:04:14  <peter1138> heh, loads of string errors
17:04:33  <peter1138> 1) cos it's not
17:04:52  <ln-> i only see warnings.
17:04:54  <peter1138> 2) install freetype & headers, optionally install fontconfig & headers, run ./configure, make
17:05:02  <peter1138> then edit config
17:05:07  <peter1138> well, yeah, warnings
17:05:15  <peter1138> an error in the file
17:05:23  <ln-> whaat, there's a configure script? omg.
17:07:26  <peter1138> ...
17:07:29  <peter1138> has been for ages
17:07:33  <peter1138> yay for vim
17:07:36  <peter1138> :set expandtab
17:07:40  <peter1138> :%retab
17:07:45  <peter1138> file in correct format
17:09:35  <Brianetta> Suicide
17:10:14  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: pong.
17:13:02  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
17:13:37  <peter1138> so...
17:15:10  <peter1138> problems... 1) it's a bit out of date
17:15:27  <peter1138> 2) we probably need some form of permission to include it
17:15:37  <ln-> 2) why?
17:15:56  <peter1138> politeness
17:16:07  <ln-> you don't have permission to include the american/english ones either.
17:16:24  <peter1138> ...
17:16:29  <ln-> or do you?
17:16:45  <peter1138> well, english isn't translated anyway ;p
17:17:11  <peter1138> any translation that is done with WT2 gives implicit permission to use it
17:17:13  <ln-> not translated, but it's taken almost verbatim from TTD.
17:17:35  <peter1138> ok
17:17:36  <peter1138> basically
17:17:39  <peter1138> what i mean is
17:17:57  <peter1138> it would be nice to let 'them' know what is being done
17:18:11  <ln-> anyhow, since you probably say that english/american is under GPL, that must mean the russian is too?
17:18:21  <ln-> derived work
17:18:35  <peter1138> don't be a cock
17:18:53  <ln-> no, i'm an eagle.
17:19:26  <hylje> o, rly?
17:20:33  <peter1138> ownname should probably be changed too
17:21:05  <HMage> peter1138: if ou want, I can ask on ttdrussia forums
17:21:23  <peter1138> ???????
17:21:36  <HMage> gibberish
17:21:40  <peter1138> heh
17:22:00  * MiHaMiX already received russian translations for OpenTTD
17:22:12  <ln-> ??????? is correct.
17:22:13  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: I've received one for 0.4.8
17:22:18  <peter1138> oh
17:22:23  <ln-> MiHaMiX: a cyrillic one?
17:22:30  <MiHaMiX> ln-: of course, in UTF8
17:22:51  <peter1138> well, i don't see it :P
17:23:15  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: i'll send it over to you
17:23:28  <ln-> considering there's one with latin alphabet currently in svn, i don't consider it such an "of course".
17:23:43  <peter1138> i guess we should junk that one
17:24:16  <peter1138> delete it and start with a utf-8 one in lang/
17:24:52  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: agreed.
17:24:55  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: pm
17:26:26  <HMage> ln-: russian is _only_ in cyrillic. Polish uses latin and looks like russian.
17:26:41  <HMage> that might be some work of polish contributor
17:26:42  <peter1138> ##name Russian
17:26:42  <peter1138> ##ownname Russkiy
17:26:53  <peter1138> STR_0001_OFF_EDGE_OF_MAP                                        :{WHITE}Za kraya
17:26:56  <peter1138> mi karti
17:26:58  <peter1138> heh
17:27:03  <ln-> HMage: ? ????.
17:27:25  <HMage> ln-: my irc client is configured for cp1251, else I won't be able to talk to other russians via IRC.
17:27:46  *** Rubidium [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:28:16  <ln-> HMage: Ok, well, there *is* a translitterated russian translation on SVN.
17:28:33  <ln-> HMage: I know it's stupid.
17:28:49  <ln-> And I know Russian is only cyrillic really.
17:28:51  <HMage> ln-: russian is not allowed to use transliteration, I think you should junk that one :)
17:29:11  <HMage> yeah, sorry. I woke up at 15:00 today and I feel out of place and time.
17:29:21  * HMage apologizes for being bitheaded
17:29:44  <ln-> 19:27 < ln-> HMage: ß çíàþ.
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17:29:56  <ln-> better?
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17:30:24  <Wolf01> evening
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17:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> my mIRC used to automatically convert incoming äöü to utf-8, if they weren't already
17:31:21  *** lolman_ is now known as lolman
17:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you could choose wether outgoing should be utf-8 or not
17:32:50  <ln-> ÕÌàãå?
17:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not paid attention to what Konversation does
17:33:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is just rubbish ;)
17:33:35  <HMage> ln-: yeah, a lot better.
17:34:29  <ln-> HMage: you need to convince you fellow russians to switch over to utf-8.
17:34:49  <ln-> HMage: or use utf-8 autodetection in your irc client for the time being.
17:37:33  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7286 /trunk/lang/unfinished/russian.txt: -Translation: Remove unfinished latin transliterated Russian translation.
17:42:08  <peter1138> wtf
17:42:41  <MiHaMiX> ?
17:43:05  <peter1138> btw
17:43:14  <peter1138> is "???????" correct for the ownname?
17:43:32  <MiHaMiX> hmm
17:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> looks close enough ;)
17:43:55  <MiHaMiX> ##ownname Russian (MIUS)
17:44:05  <MiHaMiX> ##ownname Russian (MIUS)
17:44:07  <MiHaMiX> ehh
17:44:12  <MiHaMiX> STR_0001_OFF_EDGE_OF_MAP:{WHITE}.. ...... .....
17:44:15  <MiHaMiX> hehe
17:44:59  <peter1138> hmm
17:45:09  <peter1138> these two translations are different...
17:45:23  <MiHaMiX> yes
17:45:30  <MiHaMiX> choose the most appropriate :D
17:45:38  <peter1138> -STR_0001_OFF_EDGE_OF_MAP                                        :{WHITE}???? ?????
17:45:42  <peter1138> +STR_0001_OFF_EDGE_OF_MAP                                        :{WHITE}?? ?????? ?????
17:45:49  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: well, uh, i have no idea which is correct...
17:45:54  <peter1138> -STR_0007_FLAT_LAND_REQUIRED                                     :{WHITE}?????????? ?????? ?????
17:45:57  <peter1138> +STR_0007_FLAT_LAND_REQUIRED                                     :{WHITE}?????????? ?????? ?????
17:46:02  <MiHaMiX> hmm
17:46:07  <MiHaMiX> this looks like same :D
17:46:22  <peter1138> no it doesn't
17:46:40  <MiHaMiX> hmm
17:46:54  <peter1138> -STR_A037_RENAME                                                 :{BLACK}?????????????
17:47:00  <peter1138> +STR_A037_RENAME                                                 :{BLACK}???????
17:47:38  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ok, compare which has more translated strings, and commit that one
17:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> my russian is pretty rudimentary, but none of this looks actually wrong, just different
17:48:06  <peter1138> the first one...
17:48:24  <peter1138> has more translations
17:48:41  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: which is the first? :)
17:48:42  <peter1138> both of them need updating with string changes, of course
17:48:48  <peter1138> the 0.4.7 version
17:48:54  <peter1138> or wherever it came from
17:49:00  <peter1138> it appears to have a string for ELRAIL
17:49:17  <MiHaMiX> the one I send to you was for 0.4.8
17:49:54  <peter1138> o_O
17:49:55  <peter1138> i know
17:50:09  <peter1138> that one looks better
17:50:13  <peter1138> what i propose to do
17:50:18  <peter1138> is to commit the lang
17:50:19  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ok then, I trust your opinion :)
17:50:38  <peter1138> and then leave it to stagnate
17:50:40  <peter1138> noooo
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17:50:47  <peter1138> things like {WEIGHT} need to be changed
17:50:58  <peter1138> {POWER}, etc
17:51:02  <peter1138> things added since 0.4.8
17:51:03  <peter1138> hmm
17:51:08  <peter1138> will WT2 notice those?
17:51:31  <MiHaMiX> what?
17:51:40  <MiHaMiX> the wrong PARAMs?
17:51:51  <MiHaMiX> of course, it'll mark these strings as bad
17:52:06  <peter1138> ok
17:52:14  <peter1138> yeah, different templates from english
17:52:20  <peter1138> your file has less warnings in it
17:52:22  <peter1138> so that's the one to use
17:53:09  <peter1138> is this based on the ttdrussia 0.4.8 release, then?
17:53:14  <peter1138> s/based on/from/
17:53:31  <MiHaMiX> yes
17:53:33  <MiHaMiX> I think
17:53:56  <MiHaMiX> I sent over the mail iirc :)
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17:54:13  <peter1138> it doesn't say that
17:54:46  <Digitalfox> thanks to the team for having nightly builds back.. :)
17:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> thank the guy who fucked them up in the first place :p
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17:55:33  <MiHaMiX> then neither can I deny nor confirm
17:57:01  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3-> maybe they fuck them up, so that the working formula would be better.. Oh well.. Why do i even bother...
17:57:19  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7287 /trunk/lang/russian.txt: -Translation: Add Russian translation based on ttdrussia 0.4.8 release, thanks to Davydov M.A.
17:58:02  <peter1138> now it just needs updating...
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18:07:03  <ln-> 19:43 < peter1138> is "Ðóññêèé" correct for the ownname?  <-- yes
18:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: you need to turn on utf-8 again
18:09:59  <ln-> ah, yes
18:10:01  <ln-> 19:43 < peter1138> is "???????" correct for the ownname?  <-- yes
18:10:04  <HMage> yes, "Ðóññêèé" is correct.
18:10:57  <HMage> ÐусскОй
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18:11:18  * peter1138 needs to work on this grf saveload thing
18:11:36  <peter1138> specifically the 'always use' list of grfs
18:12:36  * Belugas needs to work on ottd... badly... and not on work@work :(
18:12:41  * Belugas needs vacations
18:12:49  <peter1138> heh
18:13:20  <MiHaMiX> Rechecking all langfiles....,,...................,..,,......... Done!
18:13:22  <MiHaMiX> ehh
18:13:26  <MiHaMiX> Total percentage:
18:13:31  <MiHaMiX> 90% - 8302 bad strings out of 90368 strings (2824 strings / language)
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18:23:34  <lolman> Ello all :)
18:29:41  <HMage> MiHaMiX: can you give me access to WT2 for russian? I'll be doing checks on grammar and such.
18:30:17  <ln-> he'll tell you you have to send him email.
18:31:17  <MiHaMiX> HMage: currently I'm too occupied. I reserve a ticket for your case. Your ticket number is 4. I'll contact you as soon as I'm finished with ticket 3.
18:31:27  <HMage> ok :)
18:32:06  <Darkvater> all this russian char does no good for putty :(
18:32:43  * HMage has no problems with russian over putty
18:33:03  <Darkvater> hmm
18:33:11  <Darkvater> I get some codes, but others are just blocks
18:33:26  <HMage> what locale is on your unix host?
18:33:29  <Darkvater> window>translation>character set is utf-8
18:33:40  <Darkvater> hmm no idea
18:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> then choose a better font
18:33:50  <HMage> Darkvater: $ locale
18:34:26  <Darkvater> posix
18:34:31  <HMage> LC_CTYPE is most important
18:34:42  <HMage> well, then your unix treats UTF as latin-1
18:34:52  <Noldo> Darkvater: should be something ending with .utf-8
18:35:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> LC_CTYPE="de_DE.UTF-8"
18:35:13  <ln-> isn't posix 7-bit, besides?
18:35:32  <Darkvater> hmm so how do I set it?
18:35:38  * HMage has LC_CTYPE=ru_RU.CP1251 though
18:35:44  <Darkvater> [tfarago@tin 19:35 ~] > locale
18:35:44  <Darkvater> LANG=POSIX
18:35:44  <Darkvater> LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
18:36:01  <HMage> that's probably why. try en_EN.UTF-8
18:36:07  <Darkvater> how?
18:36:29  <HMage> search for locale settings in /etc, then relogin
18:36:37  <HMage> edit them, then relogin*
18:36:52  <Darkvater> ah I don't have write-access to /etc
18:36:52  <peter1138> they might need to be generated
18:37:49  <HMage> Darkvater: your unix treats utf8 as some invalid stream
18:37:54  <HMage> somewhere
18:37:56  <HMage> maybe terminal
18:38:34  <Darkvater> that helps ;p
18:38:43  <HMage> I know it doesn't :)
18:39:52  <Darkvater> ok, brb
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18:41:06  <Darkvater> ok, try me :)
18:41:45  <glx> ?????????? <-- like that ?
18:41:55  <Darkvater> :(
18:42:00  <Darkvater> only questin-marks
18:42:20  <Darkvater> [tfarago@tin 19:42 ~] > locale
18:42:20  <Darkvater> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
18:42:20  <Darkvater> LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"
18:42:35  <HMage> ÐусскОй
18:42:44  <Darkvater> yccknn^
18:42:51  <HMage> yccknn^
18:43:10  <Darkvater> ?
18:43:21  <Darkvater> HMage: yours looks good
18:43:22  <ln-> all glx said was questionmarks...
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18:43:58  <HMage> ëÿëÿëÿ <-- this should be gibberish, since it's cp1251
18:44:09  <Darkvater> it'se e"y"
18:44:45  <ln-> Darkvater: OpenTTD - ???????????? ????, ???? ????????? ???? Transport Tycoon Deluxe. OpenTTD ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ? ???????? ?????. ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????: Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, MorphOS ? ??.
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18:45:04  <HMage> Ñúåøü åùž ýòèõ ìÿãêèõ ôðàíöóçêèõ áóëî÷åê, äà âûïåé ÷àþ. <-- this should be too, it's a test sentence like 'quick brown fox', but in russian, also cp1251. (my IRC client is cp1251)
18:45:15  <Darkvater> ln-: it's russian all right
18:45:16  <glx> ????? <-- better ?
18:45:23  <Darkvater> HMage: pretty rubbish, yes
18:45:27  <Darkvater> ok it works :)
18:45:47  <peter1138> en_US :(
18:45:50  <HMage> Съешь ÐµÑ‰Ñ ÑÑ‚ÐžÑ… ЌягкОх фраМцузкОх булПчек, Ўа выпей чаю. <-- this should be normal for you (but not for me).
18:46:08  <peter1138> right
18:46:08  <Darkvater> yes
18:46:10  <glx> hmm one missing char in it
18:46:11  <Darkvater> peter1138: ?
18:46:19  <peter1138> i guess we need recruits to update the russian translation...
18:46:20  * lolman slaps outdated irssi
18:46:26  * lolman slaps Windows
18:46:47  <ln-> HMage: your client doesn't allow per-channel charset setting?
18:47:02  <HMage> my client doesn't allow charset setting at all.
18:47:20  <HMage> and I don't need it. everyone speaks cp1251.
18:47:26  <Darkvater> we don't :)
18:47:56  <HMage> well you're english, so it's compatible with cp1251 :)
18:48:00  <blathijs> Everyone that can' express themselves in cp1251 isn't talking a language I understand anyway
18:48:16  <blathijs> s/can'/can't/
18:48:19  <peter1138> so i went to the café
18:48:34  <ln-> encyclopædia
18:48:43  <HMage> Darkvater: - you should check that my cp1251 looks like utf8 I sent to you
18:48:44  <ln-> naïve
18:49:17  <peter1138> façade
18:49:34  <HMage> one missing letter is ok to understand you :)
18:49:41  <peter1138> fianceé
18:49:41  <peter1138> hee
18:49:43  <ln-> hägar the horrible
18:49:46  <HMage> encyclopedia, native, facade, cafe
18:49:56  <glx> peter1138: fiancée :)
18:50:03  <HMage> fiancee
18:50:14  <ln-> exposé
18:50:16  <peter1138> soufflé
18:50:17  <HMage> want screenshot? :)
18:50:23  <ln-> stargåte
18:50:35  <peter1138> HMage: encyclopaedia, thank you very much
18:50:56  <HMage> peter1138: but the meaning is still the same, so I can understand what you're talking
18:51:05  <peter1138> à propos
18:51:18  <HMage> sorry, but I can't change to utf8 here
18:51:44  <peter1138> jalapeño
18:52:23  <peter1138> soupçon
18:52:39  <peter1138> 18:50 < HMage> well you're english, so it's compatible with cp1251 :)
18:52:41  <peter1138> basically
18:52:42  <peter1138> that's not true :)
18:52:56  <blathijs> 19:47 < blathijs> Everyone that can' express themselves in cp1251 isn't talking a language I understand anyway
18:52:59  <blathijs> But that is :-)
18:53:26  <HMage> well, english alphabet letters on your charset and mine matchþ
18:53:28  <HMage> well, english alphabet letters on your charset and mine match.
18:53:36  <ln-> peter1138: and to express the names of various little shops at e.g. bayswater area, any latin charset is not sufficient. :)
18:53:37  <peter1138> ?????
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18:53:50  <HMage>
18:54:03  <peter1138> heh
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18:56:48  <blathijs> I just get ? instead of the characters, so I think it might just be the font that misses the characters :-)
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18:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wodka... might be a good idea right now ;)
19:01:12  <peter1138> i prefer vodka...
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19:04:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> the english write that with V?
19:04:53  <glx> russians too I think
19:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> i learned the transliteration of russian ? would be W
19:06:27  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: how would you write mr. Putin's first name?
19:06:30  <glx> for me "?" is "v" except at end of word where it is "ff"
19:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause3>
19:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: russian names have never less than 3 different variations ;)
19:07:26  <peter1138> even the picture it says VODKA :P
19:07:29  <peter1138> -it
19:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's because it's an eglish bottle
19:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> *english
19:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Englisch: [1] vodka"
19:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> says it on the bottom of the page
19:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> interesting... it says it's male in german, but female in french
19:10:38  <MiHaMiX> HMage: your turn.
19:10:53  <HMage> ,
19:10:54  <HMage> ?
19:11:01  <HMage> Âîäêà (cp1251:)
19:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> we will never be able to read cp1251
19:11:31  <MiHaMiX> HMage: could you please write me an email to for signing up a translator account, as written on ?
19:11:56  *** Digitalfox [] has quit []
19:11:57  <HMage> try searching for 'transliteration' on wikipedia, you'll find out there are several ways to transliterate into english
19:12:07  <HMage> MiHaMiX: I will.
19:12:18  <ln-> 20:30 < ln-> he'll tell you you have to send him email.
19:12:25  <HMage> ln- : :)
19:12:38  <HMage> hooray for beraucracy :)
19:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> [20:12] <ln-> 20:30 < ln-> ... :p
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19:14:27  <MiHaMiX> HMage: thanks
19:14:59  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: i know, i live in the future. you are welcome to visit.
19:16:02  <HMage> localecode is something like 'ru_RU'?
19:16:10  <HMage> and what is plural type?
19:17:01  <ln-> ru_RU.UTF-8
19:19:43  <ln-> plural type is probably 6.
19:20:52  <HMage> 6?
19:21:17  <ln-> do you have a better number?
19:21:47  <HMage> 104 :)
19:21:50  <HMage> what does that number mean?
19:22:15  <ln->         // Three forms, special cases for numbers ending in 1 and 2, 3, 4, except those ending in 1[1-4]
19:22:19  <ln->         // Used in:
19:22:21  <ln->         //   Croatian, Czech, Russian, Slovak, Ukrainian
19:22:24  <ln->         case 6:
19:22:26  <ln->                 return n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;
19:22:52  <HMage> like 1-st, 2-nd, 3-rd?
19:23:16  <ln-> a little like that
19:23:44  <HMage> 1-??, 2-??, 3-??, 4-??, 5-??, 6-??, 7-??, 8-??, 9-??, 10-??, 11-??, 12-??, 13-??, 14-??...
19:24:00  <ln-> 1 train, 2 trains, 3 trains, 4 trainov, ...
19:24:46  <HMage> 1 ?????, 2 ??????, 3 ??????, 4 ??????, 5 ???????, 6 ???????, 7 ???????, 8 ???????, 9 ???????, 10 ???????, 11 ???????
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19:27:20  <ln-> HMage: 22 ???????
19:27:51  <HMage> yes
19:28:12  <ln-> ok, so 6 is most likely correct.
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19:31:33  <Ailure> What was that?
19:37:07  <HMage> I've just discovered another exploit in openttd
19:37:22  <Ailure> mnmmm
19:37:32  <Ailure> Bet you're going to sell all thoose electronical pounds on ebay
19:37:34  <Ailure> bastard
19:37:53  <Ailure> mm what is the exploit though=
19:38:10  <HMage> a person can overcome his poor station rating by building two truck loading stations, one adjacent to train station, second - not
19:38:21  <HMage> and trasnferring all cargo from station two to station one
19:38:36  <Ailure> ah well heh
19:38:42  <Ailure> that's just how station rating system works
19:38:53  <Ailure> it's partly rated depending on how often vehicles arrives or something
19:39:16  <HMage> so if a person say has train station rating of 30%, he blocks out competitiors by using trucks
19:40:33  <HMage> is there a way to add a check for both stations being in coverage area of the same industry?
19:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: i just wanted to say, if you live in the future, it is no speciality that you can tell in advance, what miham was going to say
19:48:30  <ln-> no, and neither are these flying cars a speciality.
19:51:27  <Ailure> railroad companies will convert all railroads instantly with the help of nano-technology :)
19:51:41  <Ailure> *cough*
19:52:10  <hylje> :A
19:53:45  <Ailure> I actually played with that thought
19:53:52  <Ailure> and then it going haywire
19:54:00  <Ailure> covering the whole landscape with trakcs
20:01:32  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
20:06:59  <Ailure> heh
20:07:07  <Ailure> I wonder how I should do my next openTTD game
20:07:27  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
20:07:38  <lolman> Damn Eve online sucks...
20:07:42  <hylje> :o
20:08:04  <lolman> Way too hard for newbies to get started :o
20:08:26  <|Jeroen|> i rather liked it
20:08:39  <|Jeroen|> but im unwilling to pay a monthly fee for any game
20:08:52  <Ailure> I might have gotten into it
20:08:55  <Ailure> if I gave it more time
20:09:23  <Ailure> but it's not really my kind of MMO
20:10:06  <lolman> I decided I wanted to be a miner...using my, I used the new patch's 800k skill points for mining skills etc...stupid thing is, you only get a stupid basic miner...and can't get much money if you don't go into low security systems...which will lead to you being blown to bits by pirates
20:10:40  <Ailure> It also seems to be one of thoose games you could semibot easily
20:10:59  <wvx> only in empire
20:11:22  <Ailure> and there seems to be a trend
20:11:29  <Ailure> about free MMO's
20:11:38  <Ailure> but most of them are plagued from being levelling treadmills
20:11:42  <lolman> I really don't like the look of WoW I won't try that
20:11:59  <|Jeroen|> dunno many free mmo's
20:12:16  <lolman> Anarchy Online is free till 2008...dunno what it's like though
20:12:56  <|Jeroen|> i used to play shatterd galaxy
20:12:59  <|Jeroen|> that was semi free
20:13:04  <lolman> Semi?
20:13:04  <wvx> free stuff tends to attract many people, which means many annoying people ;)
20:13:11  <hylje> idiots
20:13:14  <|Jeroen|> you got only 80% exp
20:13:18  <lolman> Ah
20:13:21  <lolman> That sucks
20:13:26  <|Jeroen|> but they now reduced that to 40% for non playing users
20:13:30  <|Jeroen|> so it sucks
20:13:31  <lolman> :O
20:13:32  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
20:13:38  <lolman> brb, need water
20:13:42  <wvx> lolman, what do you consider to be a "basic miner"?
20:14:17  <wvx> did you expect to fly out to 0.0 with a hulk?
20:14:17  <HMage> hey, what about counting the time not from the time the train starts from the station, but the time it's available on the station to pick up?
20:14:32  <ln-> who has a full-feature DVB card? raise your hands.
20:15:31  <blathijs> I have two or three no nonsense TV tuner cards?
20:15:56  <ln-> no nonsense? ...
20:16:15  <blathijs> No remote control, no hardware codecs, etc
20:17:30  <ln-> anyway, i was wondering does anyone know why e.g. Technotrend has *removed* outputs for anything other than composite video in their new full-feature cards?
20:17:38  <peter1138> hmm, ok
20:17:43  <peter1138> plural 6...
20:17:49  <lolman> wvx: I would have much preferred to have had the same ship with a slightly better mining module
20:18:01  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18:02  <blathijs> ln-: I've got no clue who Technotrend is, so, no
20:18:15  <wvx> you want better stuff, train skills :)
20:18:25  <lolman> Mining
20:18:28  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
20:18:35  <lolman> Can't afford a tech 2 miner of a decent ship
20:18:35  <ln-> "TechnoTrend was founded in 1990 and is located in Erfurt, Germany. The company is dedicated to delivering a family of industry-leading solutions of interactive broadband applications (equipment for transmission and reception) specifically in the arenas of digital television (DVB) with use of either a Personal Computer or standard television set. TechnoTrend develops products for all major transmission systems (cable, satellite, terrestrial)."
20:18:41  <lolman> or*
20:18:45  <wvx> then mine some
20:18:58  <lolman> Can't get much money from Veldspar...
20:19:32  <wvx> come on, carebear-land has kernite and some jaspet
20:19:41  <lolman> What sec is that?
20:19:50  <wvx> the lowest imaginable
20:20:04  <lolman> Can barely go there with the ship I'm given, can I?
20:20:10  <Ailure> heh
20:20:15  <wvx> in other words 0.5
20:20:16  <Ailure> I'm thinking of creating a free MMO
20:20:23  <Ailure> Which will be very liberal though
20:20:38  <Ailure> I don't mind if 3rd parties sell/buy XXX fictional currency from my game
20:20:42  <lolman> 0.5...hmm, is jaspet valuable? :o
20:20:46  <wvx> liberal as in n00bs get top notch eqipment from the go?
20:20:58  <Ailure> one way of destroying thoose business
20:21:16  <wvx> yeah, but rare. kernite is more numerous
20:21:16  <Ailure> would be offering some high-end (but not the end to all) equipment for real money
20:21:20  <Ailure> or it dosen't have to be high-end
20:21:22  <Ailure> just unique
20:21:34  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7288 /trunk/lang/russian.txt: -Translation: Fix currency symbols in Russian
20:22:09  <Ailure> sometims I wonder if I should fork openTTD and make it partially a MMORPG ;P but it probably would turn kind of lame
20:22:52  *** lolman [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:22:57  <wvx> i can't imagine it being TT-ish and "persistant"
20:23:53  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
20:23:59  <Ailure> heh
20:24:06  <Ailure> I like the idea of a really big TT game though
20:24:29  <Ailure> but then I rather see some other smaller things done first
20:24:47  <lolman> Hmm, what was that system called wvx
20:24:49  <lolman> ?
20:25:17  <wvx> lowest sec systems with concord is 0.5
20:25:48  <wvx> there are rats in the belts though
20:25:54  <lolman> lol
20:26:13  <lolman> Tough or not?
20:26:19  <lolman> (For a total n00b)
20:26:30  <hylje> :o
20:26:38  <wvx> typically tougher than the rats in a 0.6 system
20:26:49  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7289 /trunk/lang/russian.txt: -Translation: use only {STRING}, not {STRINGx} in non-English
20:26:56  <Ailure> like heh
20:27:06  <lolman> Well that's a bit
20:27:11  <Ailure> I have a few odd ideas about multiplayer in openTTD
20:27:17  <Ailure> like having a server doing 2048x2048
20:27:31  <lolman> Can the blaster you're given at the start beat them? :o
20:27:33  <Ailure> but players might only like see 512x512 at a time xD Might improve perfomance
20:27:50  <Ailure> or decrease it
20:27:53  <Ailure> hmm
20:27:58  <wvx> just train some skills for a tier1 caldari cruiser (can't remember name) and you'll be able to kill'em, prolly
20:28:00  <Ailure> eh it wouldn't be that easy
20:28:21  <wvx> that boat is also an excellent miner
20:29:32  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:29:36  <lolman> Considering I have next to no ISK I can't really buy skills :P
20:29:51  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
20:31:46  <wvx> yeah well you're a fraking n00b
20:31:54  <wvx> deal with it
20:32:05  <wvx> be glad you got 800k sp
20:32:19  <lolman> wvx: calm down :o
20:33:26  <wvx> i am calm
20:33:37  <wvx> and bored, doing gatecamp
20:34:17  <wvx> i, btw, made aprox. one million isk on my first day. without 800k sp
20:35:37  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
20:35:58  <wvx> that was, however, not by mining
20:41:51  <Wolf01> 'night
20:41:54  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
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20:49:35  * Brianetta grabs new nightly
20:49:59  <lolman> Compile farm working again?
20:50:05  * Brianetta shrugs
20:51:43  <Darkvater> hmm I don't think windows nightlies work...
20:51:54  <Darkvater> or the log isn't updated
20:52:00  <Brianetta> Who cares about Windows? (:
20:52:10  <Brianetta> Oooh, peter1138's server is coop
20:52:15  * Brianetta thinks about spectating
20:52:43  <Darkvater> 21:43:12] Error-report of compile 'openttd:nightly' with rule 'amd64_dedicated'
20:52:43  <Darkvater> /bin/sh: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc: command not found
20:52:43  <Darkvater> expr: syntax error
20:52:44  <Darkvater> he
20:53:12  <Brianetta> I think that the servers web page on should look for URLs in server names, and provide a clickable link to that URL
20:53:22  <Brianetta>
20:53:26  <Brianetta> Take this example
20:53:33  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7290 /trunk/lang/russian.txt: -Translation: update Russian for changes since 0.4.8: new commands and string removed or modified in English
20:53:35  <Brianetta> If the URL in the title was clickable, it'd be really cool
20:56:36  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7291 /trunk/lang/russian.txt: -Translation: use SMALL[LEFT|RIGHT]ARROW for two strings
20:57:56  <peter1138> that's the last of me meddling with strings
20:58:00  <peter1138> for now
20:58:01  <peter1138> muwaha
20:58:06  <peter1138> hmm
20:58:15  <peter1138> shall i bother replacing the cooler on this graphics car.d..
20:58:23  <Brianetta> peter1138: Is there a new viaduct grf?
20:58:28  <Brianetta> Yours is 41k, mine's 1.4
20:58:31  <Brianetta> Yours is 41k, mine's 14
20:58:50  <peter1138> then yes
20:58:58  <Brianetta> cool
20:59:00  <Brianetta> what changed?
20:59:21  <Brianetta> Oh btw, your UKRS grf links are broken.  You have the real files ina  directory, the URLs don't reflect this.
20:59:32  <peter1138> no idea
20:59:41  *** Ooper [~Ooper@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:46  <peter1138> perhaps additional road surfaces
21:00:00  <peter1138> though i can't see how that would account for 27k
21:00:29  <Brianetta> version mis-match
21:00:33  *** Ooper [~Ooper@] has joined #openttd
21:00:40  <Brianetta> boo
21:01:35  <peter1138> hmm
21:02:02  <peter1138> yeah, i should update my server...
21:02:24  <peter1138> what's the nightly version?
21:02:31  <Brianetta> 7287
21:02:40  <peter1138> ok
21:02:50  <Brianetta> last 16-bit-only maths co-pro
21:03:01  <Brianetta> in the intel line
21:03:02  <peter1138> i need to update my ukrs too
21:03:23  <Brianetta> There's a new one?
21:03:33  <Brianetta> Dman, am I behind
21:03:43  <Brianetta> Mind you, I run the stable ones normally
21:03:55  <peter1138> yeah, it's a 3.03 or something
21:04:01  <Brianetta> although if we're going for a "standard UK server" setup, I'll follow yours
21:04:14  <Brianetta> You need more newstations (:
21:04:59  <peter1138> that could be achieved
21:05:20  <Brianetta> Co-Op Rules
21:05:20  <Brianetta> Rules suck
21:05:20  <Brianetta> Co-Op Rules
21:05:20  <Brianetta> Rules suck
21:05:24  <Brianetta> sorry
21:05:30  <Brianetta> (:
21:05:39  <hylje> what
21:06:59  * peter1138 waits for compilage to finish
21:08:15  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
21:08:36  *** Ooper [~Ooper@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09:27  *** Ooper [~Ooper@] has joined #openttd
21:12:31  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
21:13:35  *** Jhs [] has quit [Quit: zzzzzzzzzzzzz]
21:13:47  * peter1138 updates ukrsap1w while he's at it
21:15:16  *** e1ko [] has joined #openttd
21:16:27  *** lolman [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:17:14  <peter1138> boo, i forgot to re./configure
21:19:01  <Brianetta> ./configure?
21:19:06  <Brianetta> we don't just make and prayh?
21:19:39  <peter1138> that's always an option
21:19:58  <Brianetta> If I have a working build environment, what's the advantage?
21:20:11  <peter1138> [All] Peter1138: ?hmm
21:20:14  <Brianetta> Normally, I just svn up then make
21:20:35  <peter1138> i guess that colour code stripping either doesn't work or isn't being used there...
21:20:50  <peter1138> none
21:20:59  <peter1138> unless new dependencies ahve been added
21:21:01  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
21:21:12  <peter1138> ./configure will detect and enable freetype and fontconfig support
21:21:36  <Brianetta> freetype
21:21:37  <Brianetta> cool
21:22:09  <Darkvater> peter1138: it's not done in system-console
21:22:16  <peter1138> no, i can see that now :)
21:22:23  <Brianetta> the colour code stuff breaks in-game commands, like !version and !page
21:22:52  <Darkvater> how so? You need to parse the string anyways
21:22:59  <peter1138> and there i was, saying it was fixed ;p
21:23:01  <Brianetta> It breaks the string up on spaces
21:23:17  <Darkvater> eh?
21:23:17  <Brianetta> and looks at the beginning of the string parts
21:23:18  <Darkvater> it is
21:23:25  <Darkvater> name #color# text
21:23:48  <Brianetta> It's changed, though?
21:24:17  <Brianetta> say test
21:24:17  <Brianetta> [All] Brianetta: ?test
21:24:28  <Brianetta> That extra character means it won't see any commands in-game
21:24:34  <peter1138> :/
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21:24:41  <Darkvater> is that ingame console or dedicated console?
21:24:45  <Brianetta> dedicated
21:24:55  <Darkvater> that extra character is #colour#
21:25:02  <Brianetta> It's notr even visible
21:25:10  *** scia [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:25:11  <peter1138> it should be stripped, i guess
21:25:11  <Darkvater> it's openttd-colour code
21:25:20  <Brianetta> It should be stripped
21:25:34  <peter1138> 2043...
21:25:40  <peter1138> maybe i should start a new game
21:25:47  <Darkvater> well then someone go rip up the console code cause the dedicated version is fckin ugly
21:25:55  <peter1138> heh
21:25:57  <peter1138> well
21:26:03  <Darkvater> console.c:381, stripping happens in console.c:392
21:26:22  <Darkvater> the passed string is a const, I'm not butchering that just so you can strip the colour
21:26:24  <peter1138> WriteToLogFile? hmm
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21:28:16  <peter1138> heh,
21:28:23  <peter1138> shame about the needless duplication...
21:28:33  <Darkvater> ugh :s
21:28:39  <Darkvater> that is ghastly
21:28:44  <Darkvater> and exactly why I didn't do it
21:30:48  *** DaleStan [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:56  *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36:28  <Darkvater> hmm should logfile be stripped of colours/invalid chars?
21:36:37  <peter1138> dunno
21:36:42  <peter1138> i didn't even know there was a logfile...
21:36:47  <peter1138>
21:36:55  <peter1138> (but functioned off...)
21:37:06  <Darkvater> well? on/off?
21:37:45  <Darkvater> he peter1138, that's even worse ;p
21:37:55  <peter1138> but no string duplicating :P
21:38:10  *** DaleStan__ is now known as DaleStan
21:38:24  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7292 /trunk/console.c:
21:38:24  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Also validate an strip of colours the console string passed to the dedicated
21:38:24  <CIA-1>  console or logfile.
21:39:56  <Darkvater> KUDr: ping
21:40:34  <KUDr> pong my master
21:40:57  <Darkvater> hmm you missed me PM's I think
21:41:26  <KUDr> last is from [10:45:35]
21:41:32  <KUDr> morning
21:43:58  *** Sacro [Ben@] has joined #openttd
21:46:12  <lws1984> Sacro!
21:48:33  <peter1138> new ukrs coop game?
21:48:34  <peter1138> hmm
21:49:32  <lolman> Oh noes...
21:50:24  <peter1138> what?
21:50:24  <hylje> :O
21:50:50  <lolman> Sacro :P
21:51:01  <lolman> Ongoing thing :)
21:51:27  <Sacro> peter1138: has the compile farm figured out win32?
21:51:30  <peter1138> yeah
21:51:45  <lolman> And as soon as I can get a wired connection to my router sorted I'm gonna shove Arch on my box proper
21:52:17  <Sacro> lolman: you liking it?
21:52:29  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: PandaMojo]
21:52:58  <lolman> Sacro, I'm liking the customisability :)
21:53:10  <Sacro> yeah, its great
21:53:15  <Sacro> and i think i have enough for the g25
21:53:41  <lolman> Lucky shite
21:54:01  <Sacro> hmm, balance of 323
21:54:13  <Sacro> i have 50 in my paypal
21:54:19  <Sacro> and i get 1700 on 15/1
21:54:32  <Sacro> ooh and i have about 60 in my wallet
21:55:04  * Sacro heads off to a shop[
21:55:49  <lolman> :@
21:55:54  <peter1138> g25?
21:56:04  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:56:38  <Sacro> peter1138: logitech g25, steering wheel + 3 pedals + 6 shifter
21:56:52  <peter1138> oh
21:57:05  <peter1138> not enough games for that
21:57:22  <Sacro> GTR2 :D
21:57:31  <peter1138> GTR2?
21:57:47  <Sacro> by simbin, its an amazing sim
21:58:08  <lolman> GTR2 sux0rz
21:58:15  <Sacro> lolman: you ever played it?
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21:58:27  <LolmanOnArch> :o
21:58:43  <lolman> Yeah Sacro, felt really slippy
21:58:56  <LolmanOnArch> As though the car wasn't below me
21:58:58  <Sacro> lolman: yeah, gt racing is
21:59:41  <LolmanOnArch> I still prefer LFS...I'm a fanboy :P
22:00:16  <Sacro> yeah
22:00:25  <Sacro> im more of an rfactor guy
22:00:30  <LolmanOnArch> Ewwww
22:00:33  <LolmanOnArch> rTractor :S
22:01:12  <LolmanOnArch> What does help my LFS fanboy-ism is that I know one of the forum mods personally :P
22:01:47  <Sacro> i know an Egosoft forum mod personally
22:01:53  <Sacro> in fact, hes in here now :p
22:02:00  <LolmanOnArch> lol
22:02:11  <LolmanOnArch> I'm in the same TeamSpeak server as this huy right now
22:02:58  <Sacro> hmm, 189 inc delivery from gameplay
22:03:33  <LolmanOnArch> Bit steep
22:04:20  <Sacro> 186.75 from OCUK
22:04:34  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
22:04:40  <LolmanOnArch> Look for it a bit cheaper lol
22:04:53  <Sacro> 150 on dabs, but 4 week wait
22:07:26  <Sacro> £200 from logitech
22:07:58  <LolmanOnArch> Yuck
22:08:38  <Sacro> and i only have paypal :(
22:08:54  <Sacro> 189 on komplett
22:09:11  <LolmanOnArch> :-\
22:10:54  <Sacro> yeah i know
22:11:32  <bulio|> any C coders around?
22:11:44  <peter1138> just a bi
22:11:46  <peter1138> er
22:11:46  <peter1138> bit
22:12:02  <peter1138> the game is written in C, after all...
22:12:12  <bulio|> whats the differencec between scanf, getchar, and gets?
22:12:17  <Sacro> lol
22:12:29  <bulio|> I'm trying to learn C, and theres so many input methods
22:12:40  <peter1138> getchar gets... a chr
22:12:43  <peter1138> *sigh*
22:12:44  <peter1138> a char
22:12:49  <peter1138> gets should never be used
22:13:31  <bulio|> its a bug
22:14:01  <bulio|> so all getchar can get is a char?
22:14:17  <peter1138> and scanf is for scanning input based on a predefined format
22:14:24  <peter1138> yes, it does what it says
22:14:37  <peter1138> fgets() is probably the one to use
22:14:38  <bulio|> so if I want to get a float or int, i'd use scanf
22:14:45  <bulio|> why fgets()?
22:15:15  <peter1138> because it's safest
22:16:17  <peter1138> strtof and strtol can be used to convert a string to a float or int
22:17:05  <peter1138> but as ##c say, you should probably look in your book ;)
22:17:49  *** ufoun [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:18:42  <bulio|> my book says to use getchar and scanf ;)
22:20:46  <peter1138> scanf is probably fine for reading a float or int
22:20:59  <peter1138> it gets a bit dodgy with strings though
22:21:15  <bulio|> so fgets() for strings, scanf for floats and ints
22:22:21  <peter1138> that'll do
22:22:33  <peter1138> sleepy time
22:22:41  <bulio|> alright, thanks
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22:45:17  <Sacro> oh noes
23:11:40  <lolman> :P
23:12:50  <lolman> Sacro, one thing I'll need to install Arch properly and set it all up is the ability to set ndiswrapper up properly :P
23:13:04  <lolman> wtf@my last comment :-\
23:13:11  <Sacro> lolman: pacman -S ndiswrapper-utils
23:13:14  <lolman> Aha
23:13:22  <lolman> And Yeah Sacro I know that...
23:13:24  <Sacro> then err... ndiswrapper --help
23:13:29  <Sacro> and install the inf file
23:13:32  <Sacro> modprobe ndiswrapper
23:13:38  <lolman> Sacro, I did it on this box :P
23:13:40  <Sacro> iwconfig wlan0 essid... eth
23:13:42  <Sacro> *etc
23:13:54  <lolman> I used NetworkManager to get this working, much easier
23:14:15  <lolman> Couldn't do it with iwconfig...WPA :-\
23:14:18  <Sacro> dont think arch has that yet
23:15:04  <lolman> :(
23:17:20  <lolman> Being 2 floors up I can't really use a wire
23:17:29  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
23:19:28  <Sacro> lolman: iwconfig is easy
23:19:48  <lolman> Sacro, does it work with WPA though?
23:19:56  <Sacro> for me its "iwconfig wlan0 essid $essid mode Managed key $key"
23:20:11  <Sacro> yeah if you have wpa_supplicant
23:20:53  <lolman> Hmm, will try it...brb :P
23:22:33  *** lolman [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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23:24:00  <lolman> Hmm
23:24:06  <lolman> That figures
23:24:15  <lolman> No luck at all with that
23:26:24  <Sacro> read the arch wiki
23:26:29  <Sacro> oooooh, install wifi-rader
23:26:30  <lolman> On Ubuntu I mean :P
23:26:33  <Sacro> thats quite a useful app
23:26:46  <lolman> I had no luck with that either
23:26:53  <lolman> Seems it doesn't support WPA
23:27:29  <lolman> I could just compile NetworkManager :P
23:27:40  *** e1ko [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.6/2006102918]]
23:28:36  <Sacro> lolman: for arch?
23:28:48  <lolman> Yeah lol
23:29:41  <Sacro> grab the pkgbuild from
23:29:45  <Sacro> and then run makepkg
23:31:36  <lolman> It's in the binary packages :)
23:33:06  <lolman> pacman -S gnome-network-manager
23:33:07  <lolman> :)
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23:44:40  * HMage ponders trying arch
23:45:56  *** YogSothoth_ [] has joined #openttd
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23:51:00  <Sacro> HMage: GO FOR IT
23:51:11  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:51:14  <HMage> tomorrow. I have to be sleeping
23:53:38  <lolman> His connection died :P
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