Log for #openttd on 7th December 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:03  <Tefad> 8 CPUs and he's running fucking windows : (
00:00:46  <Tefad> is he IRCing from his NAT???
00:01:13  <jotham_> how do you know that's his NAT?
00:01:20  <Tefad> just a guess
00:01:24  <Tefad> is it his NAT?
00:01:25  <jotham_> i doubt it
00:01:34  <jotham_> him and i are both linux sluts
00:01:42  <Tefad> i use linux
00:01:49  <jotham_> and we both have linux box nat's and linux boxes inside our lans for our servers
00:02:01  <jotham_> i think his setup is the same as mine, the user machine is inside the lan
00:02:02  <Tefad> in the middle of designing a kickass NAT
00:02:04  <jotham_> the nat stays nude
00:02:22  <jotham_> i just use a cutdown hacked up debian and shorewall
00:02:35  <Tefad> eh, i use shorewall right now
00:02:43  <Tefad> need to learn more about iptables : )
00:03:03  <jotham_> i'm a programmer, i don't know about other programmers, but i can't get excited about system administration
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00:04:21  <Tefad> i make a living programming
00:04:27  <Tefad> but i'm all about the sysadmin too
00:04:40  <Tefad> i just like anything computers
00:04:46  <Tefad> not much of a gamer
00:04:56  <Tefad> though i like ottd : D
00:05:35  <Tefad> i can see how both programming and sysadmin can be boring.
00:05:43  <Tefad> i'm not sure exactly what i want to do yet
00:05:53  <ln->
00:06:05  <Tefad> i need to figure it out soon though : \
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00:07:28  <jotham_> i was thinking last night, ottd is a bit like programming
00:07:41  <jotham_> you are rpoblemsolving with a limited set of instructions and behaviors
00:08:07  <jotham_> i'm a CG programmer mostly, i only learn enough about sysadmin to run my home network properly
00:08:12  <jotham_> gotta set openVPN up this weekend
00:08:24  <Tefad> CG?
00:08:27  <Tefad> graphics?
00:08:40  <Tefad> i do somewhat low-level stuff
00:08:51  <Tefad> flight simulator guidance and control
00:09:00  <Tefad> mmm calculus and linear algebra.
00:09:25  <Tefad> started from scratch with no libs outside of ANSI C89
00:09:35  <Tefad> and some shell scripts.
00:09:39  <jotham_> yeah computer graphics, am learning [py]opengl atm, use pygame/sdl a bit
00:09:48  <Tefad> oh neat, have you heard of pydance?
00:09:48  <jotham_> i am teaching myself calculus atm
00:10:11  <jotham_> because using ODE for my limited dynamics simulation is overkill
00:10:21  <jotham_> yeah i know pydance
00:10:40  <Tefad> the guy that started that runs a convention in the US
00:10:56  <Tefad> i'm doing the LAN area NAT.
00:11:10  <jotham_> ok
00:11:11  <Tefad> we're "upgrading" from some questionable winroute stuff
00:11:27  <jotham_> heh winroute, we used that when i lived in amsterdam
00:11:35  <jotham_> cause the syadmin was afraid of linux
00:11:36  <Tefad> yeah, it was total ass.
00:11:49  <Tefad> i've got most of the interface done.
00:11:55  <Tefad> i just need to do iptables rules now
00:12:11  <Tefad> then worry about packetshaping and possible load balancing
00:12:44  <Tefad> the hotel wants to charge $$$$ for wired connection, so we're going to purchase wifi through a few devices and loadbalance (if it proves useful anyway)
00:13:39  <jotham_> i need to write a curses interface for editing shorewall rules
00:14:17  <jotham_> just so i can quickly turn on and off stuff
00:14:33  <jotham_> i mean vim is fast, but as a very visual person i am compelled to put an interface on everything :D
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00:15:08  <Tefad> isnt there interface via webmin?
00:15:19  <jotham_> i don't use webmin, seems like extra clutter
00:15:26  <jotham_> a simple perl script or python script would do the trick
00:16:09  <jotham_> haha...speaking of interfaces, this is a good illustration of bad-form
00:16:28  <jotham_> also, webmin would require me be in xwindows, a simple curses menu app would let me stay in a shell
00:17:19  <jotham_> dunno how webmin would handle elinks, haven't tried that before
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00:20:12  <jotham_> sorry that was all pretty off topic :D
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00:51:26  <Darkvater> *sigh* there went my evening of devving :s
00:51:32  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
00:51:34  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7410 /trunk/ (6 files) (2006-12-07 00:51:20 UTC)
00:51:36  <_42_> -Codechange/Fix: Remove useless and unfollowable programmatic-resize, and implement it
00:51:38  <_42_>  in a sane way. Correctly specify resize flags for windows and only manually change the
00:51:40  <_42_>  widgets that the resize system cannot handle (eg centering). This changes r6562, and
00:51:42  <_42_>  probably some other commits
00:52:26  <glx|away> looks like a great feature :)
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00:52:38  <Naksu> :O
00:52:43  <Naksu> i made a wow pvp video
00:52:47  <Darkvater> I was .< close to doing some bjarni-bashing in there
00:52:58  <glx> !openttd commit 7409
00:53:00  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7409 /trunk/ (window.c window.h) (2006-12-07 00:47:35 UTC)
00:53:02  <_42_> -Codechange: Make the ResizeWindow function also available outside of window.c. This makes
00:53:04  <_42_>  it possible to programmatically resize windows specifying a delta x,y.
00:53:23  <Darkvater> I like 7409 though :D
00:53:53  <glx> yeah my "great feature" message was for 7409 :)
00:55:18  <Darkvater> it was just a little code-motion though, nothing biggie
00:55:43  <Naksu> !openttd commit 5794
00:55:48  <_42_> Commit by tron :: r5794 /trunk/ (14 files) (2006-08-06 16:32:49 UTC)
00:55:49  <_42_> Pass the TileIndex plus x and y coordinates into GetSlopeZ_* instead of a TileInfo
00:56:09  <Naksu> how interesting
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00:57:33  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7409 /trunk/ (window.c window.h):
00:57:33  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Make the ResizeWindow function also available outside of window.c. This makes
00:57:33  <CIA-1>  it possible to programmatically resize windows specifying a delta x,y.
00:58:47  * Sacro kicks CIA-1
00:58:56  <CIA-1> ow
00:59:50  <Naksu> haha
00:59:54  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7410 /trunk/ (6 files):
00:59:54  <CIA-1> -Codechange/Fix: Remove useless and unfollowable programmatic-resize, and implement it
00:59:54  <CIA-1>  in a sane way. Correctly specify resize flags for windows and only manually change the
00:59:54  <CIA-1>  widgets that the resize system cannot handle (eg centering). This changes r6562, and
00:59:54  <CIA-1>  probably some other commits
01:00:01  <Naksu> !openttd commit 6666
01:00:09  <_42_> Commit by miham :: r6666 /trunk/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt turkish.txt) (2006-10-06 06:48:11 UTC)
01:00:11  <_42_> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-06 08:47:45
01:00:13  <_42_> brazilian_portuguese - 3 fixed, 2 changed by tucalipe (5)
01:00:15  <_42_> turkish    - 6 fixed by jnmbk (6)
01:00:17  <Naksu> aww
01:00:21  <Naksu> another boring commit
01:01:52  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7411 /trunk/fontcache.c: -Cleanup: Add 'Freetype' to dbg message output, just like all others
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01:04:46  <Belugas_Gone> poor Naksu... he wants some heartpounding commits  :)
01:05:01  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 666
01:05:04  <Belugas_Gone> !openttd commit 1
01:05:10  <Naksu> Belugas_Gone: yes
01:05:10  <_42_> Commit by darkvater :: r666 /trunk/ttd.dsp (2004-11-17 20:30:34 UTC)
01:05:14  <_42_> -Added missing sprite.c for VS6 project file
01:05:16  <_42_> Commit by truelight :: r1 /trunk/ (200 files in 10 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
01:05:18  <_42_> Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
01:05:22  <Darkvater> he
01:05:34  <Naksu> !openttd commit 975
01:05:35  <_42_> Commit by darkvater :: r975 /branch/map/map.h (2004-12-08 00:49:06 UTC)
01:05:37  <_42_> -Fix [_map] fix TSTACK_SIZE_LOOP as it was not doing what it was supposed to do
01:05:39  <_42_> -Fix [_map] moved INVALIDX back to original -32768 value; this means until towns aren't converted the game will crash in the game/scenario editor (set it back to 0 to make it work or convert town!)
01:05:59  <Darkvater> ah, the good ol' map-branch
01:06:15  <Darkvater> what a waste of 2 months of devving that was :(
01:06:29  <Naksu> Darkvater: why?
01:06:40  <Belugas_Gone> reming me of another map branch that was quite a waste too...
01:06:56  <Darkvater> hehe
01:07:17  <Belugas_Gone> !openttd commit 6507
01:07:57  <glx> Belugas_Gone: a lot of tfc stuff has been included :)
01:08:04  <_42_> Commit by belugas :: r6507 /branches/newhouses/ (952 files in 26 dirs) (2006-09-26 00:39:05 UTC)
01:08:06  <_42_> -Create Branch: This is a collective effort to bring in the newhouses feature of newgrf.
01:08:08  <_42_> It is based on Maedhros's code.
01:08:10  <_42_> Among noticeable features, the map array will be expanded, and not only for houses.
01:08:12  <_42_> The branch is open for all devs to fix, update, synch etc...
01:08:22  <Belugas_Gone> true glx :)
01:08:32  <Belugas_Gone> thus the "quite"
01:08:47  <Belugas_Gone> and... that gave us commit right, after all ;)
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01:09:07  <Belugas_Gone> Naksu, that 6507, now this qhat i call excitment!
01:09:07  <glx> and coding in tfc learnt us openttd source :)
01:09:18  <Belugas_Gone> ho yeah.. a lot...
01:09:21  <Belugas_Gone> still learning...
01:09:37  <Belugas_Gone> heheh "Still in training" ;)
01:10:10  <Belugas_Gone> ok... enough play...  got a few things to work on tonight
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01:48:10  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7412 /website/mixedfeed.php: [website] -Codechange: Limit the RSS feed entry to only the first 100 characters of the message to cut down on bandwidth (TrueLight)
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03:04:22  <jotham_> is there a key to close windows quickly in ottd?
03:04:38  <glx> del
03:04:43  <jotham_> chur
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03:54:56  <DannyA> Hello, hello, if anyone's up at this hour... Got yapf working out distance after spending a couple of hours looking for a reason for it always coming up with 0 in the console debug. Turned out there was 1 more value than place holder - and since I just tacked mine on the end I got that. Bugger :)
03:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> what exactly are you trying to tell?
03:59:52  <Belugas_Gone> exactly waht i was thinking...
04:00:14  <Belugas_Gone> have you found a bug?  or rather have you cured a bug?
04:00:52  <DannyA> No bugs, just a silly mistake.
04:01:21  <Belugas_Gone> on your side?
04:02:49  <Belugas_Gone> i guess so...
04:03:01  <DannyA> Partly - there are like 10 numbers that used in the yapf debug output - 9 of which are displayed. The last 3-4 are always 0. When I added one more and one more place holder in the format string thing, it put the last existing value instead.
04:03:58  <DannyA> If that makes sense.
04:04:43  <Belugas_Gone> a little more yes :)
04:04:51  <DannyA> I thought it was a bit funny, such a tiny thing wasting a couple of hours.
04:05:00  <Belugas_Gone> hehhe
04:05:04  <Belugas_Gone> i know the feeling ;)
04:05:14  <DannyA> :)
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04:15:51  * Belugas_Gone kicks CIA-1
04:18:43  <CIA-1> ow
04:18:49  <Belugas_Gone> about time!
04:18:57  <Belugas_Gone> lol
04:19:04  <Belugas_Gone> and that's all it has to say :S
04:20:26  <Belugas_Gone> bah... finished for me
04:20:40  <Belugas_Gone> night boyzzzz and girlzzzzzzz
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04:54:45  <DannyA> Belugas_Gone: good night
04:59:54  <Eddi|zuHause> !openttd commit
04:59:58  <_42_> Commit by belugas :: r7413 /trunk/station_gui.c (2006-12-07 04:12:29 UTC)
05:00:00  <_42_> -Fix[FS#386,#412]: Station list window NONE button now behaves correctly.
05:00:02  <_42_> -Fix: Clicking on SORT button (same window) does not reset everything anymore.
05:00:04  <_42_> -Featurette: cargo, NONE and both ALL buttons are now shown fully down on pressed, as the text is deported by one pixel on y and y
05:00:06  <_42_> Some widgets enum and code clean-up
05:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause> am i the only person to spot the typo? :p
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05:34:51  <jotham_> i'm trying to do a test, can i force the raw material suppliers to not fluctate their supply amounts?
05:35:03  <jotham_> are there any raw material sources that don't really fluctuate?
05:35:09  <jotham_> coal seems to be fluctaiting a lot
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05:58:44  <jotham_> anyway, after a bunch of tests - chaining industries and using force-unload is more profitable by quite a bit, mostly because the satellite stations get serviced more often creating more overall raw material in the chain, and you require less total trains running
05:59:17  <jotham_> and it seems turning 'wait for full load' off is better than having the trains wait, as you can tune them better
05:59:54  <jotham_> final total was 250k a year profit for the chained mines vs 175k profit for the full-route mines
06:00:55  <jotham_> that was for Darkvater
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07:56:16  <Nigel> Belugas_Gone, thanks for doing 412
07:56:29  <blathijs> 412?
07:56:49  <Mikachu> i'm guessing
07:57:33  <peter1138> it's wrong :/
07:57:48  <Rubidium> Nigel: 'ALL' means all stations that have cargo waiting (of any type) AND all stations that have 'NONE' waiting...
07:57:54  <peter1138> behaviour had been corrected
07:57:56  <peter1138> now it's wrong
07:58:32  <Nigel> Rubidium, did you bother reading my reply?
07:58:52  <peter1138> obviously belugas didn't
07:59:04  <Nigel> i confessed an hour later saying "Hmmm, as pointed out, I got around the wrong way,"
07:59:59  * Rubidium should go back to bed I suppose...
08:00:11  * Nigel has a look at the svn diffs
08:01:22  <peter1138> you'll be lucky
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08:04:13  <Nigel> hmmm, SVN is down
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08:07:39  <blathijs> indeed...
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08:10:13  <Nigel> are the SVN diffs sent to a particular mailing list?
08:10:51  <Mikachu> i think it was but that also seems to be down
08:12:51  <peter1138> *sigh*
08:12:53  <peter1138> damn this c++
08:12:59  <peter1138> *(CHdr*)(((int8*)m_items) - ThdrSize)
08:13:00  <peter1138> . . .
08:13:13  <peter1138> would you like a cast with that?
08:13:30  <Mikachu> at least it isn't java
08:14:20  <Nigel> Mikachu, thanks, you've just contributed to me hitting myself over the head with an axe ;)
08:14:35  * Nigel forgot the topic)
08:15:03  <Mikachu> if (person[i] != null && person[i].getName().equals(name)) {
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08:22:08  <peter1138> bool      m_treat_first_red_two_way_signal_as_eol
08:22:09  <peter1138> lol
08:22:37  <Noldo> hm?
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08:31:50  <blathijs> peter1138: That's OPF behaviour
08:32:16  <peter1138> it was more the variable name
08:32:29  <blathijs> looks pretty decent to me?
08:32:33  <blathijs> Nice and clear
08:32:34  <peter1138> bit long
08:32:56  <blathijs> bit, but I usually like long filenames better than unclear ones ;-p
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08:37:32  <peter1138> ok
08:37:39  <peter1138> yapf coding style changes: 67KB
08:40:21  <blathijs> by you?
08:40:25  <peter1138> yeah
08:42:52  <peter1138>
08:42:54  <peter1138> hmm
08:43:00  <peter1138> and a train fix, too
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08:58:30  <peter1138> hmm
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09:18:50  <lolman> Morning all :)
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09:37:47  <peter1138> hmm
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09:38:12  <lolman> Hmm?
09:39:00  <Nigel> so, now SVN is up i should check to see if the fix works
09:39:50  <peter1138> well it doesn't
09:40:11  <peter1138> Belugas_Gone has done what you did first time :/
09:40:18  <Nigel> oh right
09:40:47  <Nigel> i added a comment _ONE_ hour later saying i stuffed up and offered a one line patch
09:40:56  <peter1138> yes yes, we know
09:41:11  <peter1138> i wasn't blaming you :PO
09:41:13  <peter1138> -O
09:41:21  <Nigel> i know ;)
09:41:26  <peter1138> misunderstandings, tum te tum
09:41:33  <peter1138> now, shall i do this train RA fix?
09:41:36  <Nigel> make that, offered a new, patch (one line)
09:41:51  <Nigel> no clue, i'd test it, but i don't have the fontconfig stuff atm
09:41:57  <Nigel> *fontcache
09:45:18  <peter1138> fontcache is internal
09:45:23  <peter1138> you don't need fontconfig
09:45:32  <peter1138> (unless someone's ballsed it up)
09:47:21  * lolman tells VNC to actually work
09:53:08  <Darkvater> morning
09:53:11  <peter1138> mr 'vater
09:53:22  <lolman> Morning Darkvater :)
09:54:33  <lolman> Would you lot say SSH or VNC would be a better option for using IRC via my box?
09:55:13  <Nigel> peter1138, which would explain "c:\users\nigel\development\openttd\fontcache.c(17) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'ft2build.h': No such file or directory"
09:55:23  <peter1138> that's freetype
09:55:23  <lolman> Given about 30KB/s upload to the box I'm using it on
09:55:24  <Mikachu> i would say using vnc without using an ssh tunnel would be stupid
09:55:34  <Nigel> oh right, well thats what i meant
09:55:34  <peter1138> adjust the defines
09:55:45  <peter1138> in the project options
09:55:50  <Darkvater> once I get wifi up, I'll show thee a wip :)
09:55:53  <lolman> Mikachu, the tunnel is all set up, was just wondering if the graphical interface would offset the slowdown
09:56:19  <Darkvater> lolman: do you or do you NOT want freetype support?
09:56:19  <Mikachu> i prefer irssi anyway, so i would definitely go with ssh
09:56:29  <Darkvater> cause the project is already set up by default to use FT
09:56:43  <peter1138> so
09:56:55  <Darkvater> what has belugas done?
09:56:56  <lolman> Darkvater, you sure that was at me? lol
09:57:00  <Nigel> peter1138, the freetype headers etc are in svn?
09:57:05  <Darkvater> oh Nigel then
09:57:09  <peter1138> no
09:57:10  <Nigel> Darkvater, FS#412
09:57:11  <Darkvater> Nigel: openttd-useful. stop. download. stop
09:57:18  <Nigel> peter1138, thats what i was getting at
09:57:32  <peter1138> freetype headers are part of freetype...
09:57:33  <Nigel> "
09:57:34  <Nigel> <Nigel> no clue, i'd test it, but i don't have the fontconfig stuff atm" except i really meant freetype
09:57:48  <peter1138> yes
09:57:51  <Nigel> i'm having a bad day
09:57:52  <Darkvater> Nigel: you don't use fontconfig for windows
09:57:55  <peter1138> and i'm telling you you can disable it :)
09:58:30  <Nigel> Darkvater, as i said, bad day, i knew the change was something to do with fonts
09:58:36  * lolman stays out of this conversation
09:58:57  <peter1138> Darkvater: so do you know where force = 2.2 * power / speed comes from?
09:59:20  <Darkvater> mars?
09:59:33  <peter1138> possibly
09:59:34  <Darkvater> no idea, sorry
09:59:43  <peter1138> power is kW
09:59:44  <Nigel> sounds like the back of a physics text book
09:59:50  <peter1138> force is supposedly kN
09:59:55  <peter1138> er N
10:00:00  <peter1138> speed is mph (wtf?)
10:00:07  <Darkvater> what's wrong with what belugas's done?
10:00:14  <peter1138> it doesn't work :)
10:00:25  <Nigel> Darkvater, no clue atm
10:00:53  <lolman> If force is in N surely speed should be in m/s?
10:00:56  <Darkvater> it seems to work here
10:01:15  <peter1138> he's mistaken none for "no cargo types selected" instead of "stations with no cargo waiting"
10:01:25  <peter1138> or whatever it was
10:01:27  <Darkvater> oh that....again?
10:01:31  <peter1138> we've had this discussion three times :)
10:01:45  <peter1138> lolman: well maybe that's where the 2.2 comes from
10:02:03  <peter1138> indeed
10:02:10  <lolman> peter1138, could be...
10:02:11  <peter1138> mph -> m/s is * 2.2
10:02:17  <peter1138> or / 2.2
10:02:19  <peter1138> or whatever
10:02:31  <Nigel> Darkvater, basically FS#412
10:02:43  <peter1138> but if speed is 1
10:03:00  <peter1138> then power / speed
10:03:04  <peter1138> 4000 / 1 = 4000
10:03:17  <lolman> Hmm that just dropped a message -
10:03:23  <peter1138> so the formula looks basically wrong
10:03:23  <lolman> :-/*
10:03:35  <peter1138> 4000 * 2.2 = 8800N
10:03:41  <Darkvater> my god how fucking long does it take for windows to shut down????
10:03:44  <Nigel> not really...
10:03:51  <lolman> peter1138, force is mass * acceleration anyway, not force * speed
10:04:05  <lolman> mass * speed*
10:04:07  <DannyA> Darkvater - depends on how long you hold the power button in for :)
10:04:38  <Nigel> lolman, velocity
10:04:57  <lolman> Nigel, yeah, I neglected the directional element :)
10:05:01  <peter1138> this is force / speed
10:05:03  <peter1138> err
10:05:06  <peter1138> force = power / speed
10:05:18  <lolman> peter1138, that's totally wrong
10:05:35  <peter1138> so what's acceleration?
10:05:37  <lolman> force is simple mass * acceleration
10:05:57  <lolman> acceleration is the change in speed per second
10:06:13  <peter1138> i think you're working on something different
10:06:25  <lolman> Basic physics :P
10:06:30  <Nigel> F=ma
10:06:33  <peter1138> i know what acceleration *is*
10:06:35  <lolman> ^That
10:07:37  <lolman> Oh, it's (Final velocity - Initial velocity) / time
10:07:51  <Darkvater> that's it, /me shuts windows down
10:08:12  <lolman> Ouch Darkvater
10:08:28  <DannyA> I was wondering bout that stiff a couple of weeks back, and found this which explained it pretty clearly:
10:08:38  * lolman wishes he could reboot his box without it failing to reconnect to the wireless
10:08:56  <peter1138> well
10:09:07  <peter1138> we have power from the engine
10:09:23  <peter1138> and we need to turn that into acceleration
10:09:45  <Nigel> right... so what Belugas did was just change the HOW the buttons are handled, and not fix the reported bug, now i make sense of it all
10:09:53  <lolman> Power being interpreted as force?
10:10:21  <lolman> Fuck, gotta go lol
10:11:09  *** Sionide [] has quit [Quit: /quit]
10:12:22  <DannyA> Yeah I think power = force, and Accelleration = force / mass.
10:13:00  <DannyA> Need to sum all the forces in all dirs, then work out the acc from applying that total force to the mass
10:13:45  <DannyA> Eventually when the forces equal out - it will stop speeding up and be at max speed - or that what they told us in highschool anyway.
10:15:15  *** KUDr [] has joined #openttd
10:15:55  <Nigel> i liked the old station_gui.c
10:16:15  <Mikachu> last time i checked, power is what you measure in Watts
10:16:29  <peter1138> correct
10:17:23  <Mikachu> which is energy per time (J/s)
10:17:49  <peter1138> irrelevent
10:17:56  <Mikachu> just saying
10:24:12  <Nigel> hmmm
10:24:48  <Nigel> i don't like that 'int i;' in station_gui.c:271
10:25:21  <Nigel> i'm tempted to make the for statements "for (int i = 0; ...)" in my WC
10:25:29  <Darkvater> what do we think of
10:25:31  <Darkvater>
10:25:38  <Darkvater> Nigel: won't compile on Visual Studio
10:26:01  <Nigel> hmmm looking nice
10:26:05  <Nigel> it won't?
10:26:07  * Nigel looks
10:26:26  <Mikachu> vs doesn't support c99?
10:26:37  <Darkvater> no
10:26:45  <Mikachu> awesome
10:26:54  <Darkvater> it works if you compile the source as C++ though, but not the C compiler
10:27:24  <Nigel> that really sucks
10:27:30  <Darkvater> yes
10:27:40  <Darkvater> peter1138: comments?
10:29:42  <Darkvater> or anyone? :)
10:30:08  <peter1138> hmm?
10:30:14  <peter1138> oh
10:30:36  <peter1138> looks good to be
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10:30:40  <peter1138> hmm
10:30:44  <peter1138> though
10:30:58  <peter1138> does the dropdown button have to be a separate widget?
10:31:06  <peter1138> (i think it does :/)_
10:31:09  <Darkvater> it always is/has been
10:31:20  <Darkvater> it doesn't have to be
10:31:32  <peter1138> oh, but you can still click on "Manage list" so it's fine
10:31:37  <peter1138> now
10:31:48  <peter1138> why doesn't it scale to fit the window?
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10:32:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: you mean the second pick for 'ships'?
10:32:28  <peter1138> yeah
10:32:46  <Darkvater> peter1138: it really looks crappy if you start resizing the window and the dropdown menu gets wider and wider and wider
10:32:46  <peter1138> also
10:32:49  <peter1138> Available Engines
10:32:53  <peter1138> Rail Vehicles
10:33:03  <peter1138> i know they're engines internally
10:33:04  <peter1138> but
10:33:15  <peter1138> it should be consistent in the UI :)
10:33:55  <Darkvater> therefore there is also the problem of string length: 'Available Rail Vehicles' is too loong 'Rail Vehicles' < good
10:34:45  <peter1138> hmm?
10:35:09  <peter1138> oh well
10:35:15  <Darkvater> if the button says 'available rail vehicles' it won't fit :(
10:35:25  <peter1138> i didn't say it should be that
10:35:25  <Darkvater> unless we start making the window *huge*
10:35:40  <peter1138> Perhaps "Available Engines" -> "Available Vehicles"
10:35:41  <peter1138> or
10:35:47  <peter1138> Rail Vehicles -> Rail Engines (haha)
10:35:53  <Darkvater> :)
10:36:06  <peter1138> damn
10:36:20  <peter1138> gotta write a pgsql "sp"
10:36:24  <peter1138> functions ahoy
10:42:57  <Darkvater>
10:42:58  <Darkvater> hehe
10:43:02  <Darkvater> stolentreesw_162.grf
10:44:05  <Darkvater> ;p
10:44:29  <peter1138> you're right about the seasonal trees ;p
10:44:57  <peter1138> a lot of the newgrf features came about because MB wanted the features, heh
10:46:16  <Darkvater> yeah
10:47:20  <Darkvater> newtrees: season, growth stages, growth rate, expansion rate, cost, height, area, climate
10:47:23  <Darkvater> what else...
10:50:16  <Darkvater> but ok, that's a bit future-speak...back to the vehicle-list gui
10:50:33  <Darkvater> how should resize handle the buttons at the bottom?
11:04:55  <peter1138> i'd prefer them to stretch
11:05:31  *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:05:47  <Darkvater> I'll show you a pic but I think it's vrey ugly
11:06:27  *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@] has joined #openttd
11:06:32  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ
11:09:24  <Darkvater> peter1138:
11:09:56  <Darkvater> even if I make both at the bottom grow, the result is similar just not this drastic
11:12:26  <peter1138> both have to grow :)
11:12:35  <peter1138> but... hmm.
11:13:05  <Darkvater> imho a growing dropdown box just doesn't fit
11:16:03  <Darkvater> I could have 'manage list' stick to the right but then you'll have a gap in the middle ;p
11:16:16  <roboboy^> gnight
11:16:24  *** roboboy^ is now known as robobed^
11:16:24  <Darkvater> fold bed, sleep, yeah we know the drill
11:31:22  <Brianetta> (:
11:33:01  <Brianetta> You know what'd be fun?  A paint ptogram stylee palette of tools.  It could be filled with all the station styles currently loaded, allowing one to make a station much more easily. (:
11:35:16  <lolman> Ello again :)
11:38:10  <Brianetta> Not a serious suggestion, btw
11:39:06  * Brianetta rsyncs his home copy of OpenTTD trunk with work
11:39:23  <Brianetta> I can't use svn at work through the firewall, but I can tunnel rsync through ssh (:
11:39:55  <Mikachu> can't you tunnel svn over ssh too?
11:40:59  <Brianetta> Possibly, but I can't ssh to the openttd svn server
11:41:03  <lolman> I was gonna say, I can use svn through my SSH tunnel
11:41:04  <Brianetta> I have no account on there
11:41:17  <Brianetta> I can use my *own* svn server with ssh
11:41:41  <Mikachu> you don't have to ssh to the svn server, ssh can forward ports to other hosts than localhost
11:41:41  <lolman> Yeah, that's what I'm doing with my home box (right now actually)
11:41:53  <Mikachu> although i'm not sure how to convince svn to use the tunnel
11:42:00  * lolman slaps self
11:42:04  <lolman> No I'm not
11:42:29  <lolman> I'm SSHing into my box and just using SVN on that
11:42:59  <Brianetta> Mikachu: THe only machines outsid the firewall I could use are my home box and my server.
11:43:09  <Gonozal_VIII> force / mass - speed * (wagons * wagon friction + engine friction) = acceleration
11:43:29  <Brianetta> Since the files are *already* on my homebox, rsyncing them is quicker
11:43:39  <lolman> Brianetta has a point there
11:43:55  <Brianetta> and my server, well, I pay for bandwidth
11:44:42  <Brianetta> heh, not to mention all the newgrfs I downloaded
11:44:45  <Brianetta> They're coming over now
11:46:07  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: uh, ok :)
11:46:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i know, much too late, scrolled up in the chan
11:46:56  <Brianetta> peter1138: Would it not make sense to do some sort of grf check *before* copying the map over?
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11:52:09  <DannyA> Howdy people, I added a distance member to rail nodes, and segments which looks like it's working & uploaded the diff here:
11:52:17  <peter1138> Brianetta: yes, that's the part that hasn't been committed yet
11:52:25  <DannyA> I'm off to the movies, but I'll have some questions when I get back...:)
11:52:47  <peter1138> something like
11:52:51  <peter1138> i'm sure you already saw that though
11:52:56  <peter1138> with the bookmark server thing
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11:53:26  <Brianetta> DannyA: We can't help you if we haven't seen the movie.
11:53:33  <Brianetta> You'll have to ask your fellow movie-goers
11:57:40  <Mikachu> maybe this is a silly question, but isn't flyspray a better place for patches?
12:02:31  <DannyA> Brianetta: Casino Royal - the new bond - any good do you think? First showing in Perth tonight my sis tells me. We're a bit behind the time over here sometimes... cya
12:06:01  <Darkvater> Brianetta: can I ask for your GUI expertise? :)
12:13:19  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Sure, you can.
12:13:35  <Brianetta> DannyA: I enjoyed it
12:13:49  <Brianetta> So did Helen
12:14:04  <Brianetta> Helen said it was the first Bond film she actually enjoyed
12:14:16  <Darkvater> Brianetta: or or something different?
12:14:33  * Brianetta clicks
12:15:55  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I think that v2 is much clearer
12:16:10  <Brianetta> The labels in the drop-down are nearer to the place where the arrow is
12:16:17  <Brianetta> and where they eye would be looking
12:17:14  <Darkvater> yeah, a third option would be to have both 'button's the same length but that has the same prob as v3 just not so drastic
12:17:36  <Brianetta> I just don't think the buttons need to grow
12:17:46  <Brianetta> except, of course, to accommodate a language
12:17:54  <Darkvater> :O
12:18:05  <Darkvater> fat chance of that happening anytime soon ;)
12:18:23  <Brianetta> No string-length-in-pixels function? (:
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12:18:58  <Darkvater> Brianetta: for that to work the whole windowing resize system needs to be rewritten
12:19:30  <Brianetta> And that's as likely as using the OS for windows...
12:20:54  <Darkvater> for that we might as well switch to QT or GTK
12:21:03  <Brianetta> Themes (:
12:21:03  <Darkvater> although I must say even Windows doesn't do this
12:21:22  <Darkvater> in WinXP if I increase default font size, things just bleed through or are unreadable
12:21:25  <valhalla1w> I agree v2 is nicer :)
12:21:44  <Brianetta> Nobody really expects Microsoft do do something well
12:22:06  <Brianetta> Sometimes they do do something well, but it's always just a pleasant surprise.  Never an expectation.
12:22:17  <valhalla1w> I expect Microsoft to build a good gaming console
12:22:21  <peter1138> heh
12:22:22  *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
12:22:24  <Darkvater> last question: if the list is empty, should the 'manage list' button be disabled or all dropdown elements?
12:22:39  <peter1138> the button
12:22:46  <Brianetta> The bitton
12:22:48  <Darkvater> bah
12:22:56  <valhallasw> the elements.
12:23:00  <peter1138> both! :D
12:23:02  <valhallasw> just to disagree with people.
12:23:03  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like consoles
12:23:17  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: I have only ever owned handheld consoles
12:23:20  <valhallasw> hmmm
12:23:38  <Brianetta> Early Nintendo game-and-watch, Nintendo Game Boy (first edition) and Sony PSP.
12:23:41  <valhallasw> peter1138: you are acting like a chameleon in irssi.
12:23:56  <valhallasw> first bright green, then purple, then dark green :o
12:23:57  <Gonozal_VIII> had a game boy..
12:25:29  <peter1138> huh?
12:25:48  <peter1138> i guess your irssi is buggy
12:25:54  <Brianetta> valhallasw is using a script to colour things
12:25:57  <valhallasw> peter1138: yeah, it is.
12:26:10  <valhallasw> but it's mainly just weird
12:26:31  <Brianetta> I disabled the one I found, just as I disabled xchat's coloured nick feature - it re-used colours all the time, instead of using them all.
12:26:37  <peter1138> i never saw the point in colour nicks
12:26:50  <valhallasw> peter1138: it makes it easier to follow a discussion
12:27:04  <Brianetta> peter1138: Lets one easily distinguish between Darkvater and DaleStan in a lengthy conversation
12:27:05  <valhallasw> as long as multiple people in one discussion don't have the same color
12:27:05  <peter1138> not when collide or change
12:27:10  <valhallasw> and colors don't change
12:27:17  <peter1138> +they
12:27:40  <peter1138> and you always end up with someone as dark blue on black...
12:27:48  <Brianetta> TO be fair, the irssi scrip tI have lets you choose and lock a colour to a nick manually, too
12:28:06  <valhallasw> yes, it can do that
12:28:11  <valhallasw> but I have no idea how ;)
12:28:19  <Brianetta> so those of us with verbal synaesthesia can make nicks the proper colour
12:28:34  <Brianetta> Darkvater is brown, peter1138 is dark red, valhallasw is purple...
12:28:42  <Darkvater> :(
12:28:43  <Brianetta> DaleStan is pale yellw
12:28:44  <valhallasw> :o
12:28:45  <Darkvater> I want to be black!
12:28:46  <valhallasw> I'm white!
12:28:51  <valhallasw> Darkvater is purple
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12:28:59  <Brianetta> The words have colours to me
12:29:03  <Brianetta> always have had
12:29:09  <Brianetta> the word white is pale green
12:29:13  <valhallasw> xD
12:29:26  <Brianetta> It's synaesthesia
12:29:31  <Brianetta> well, an example of it
12:29:51  <Brianetta> SOme words are colours I can't see
12:29:57  <Brianetta> and can't describe
12:30:07  <Brianetta> which would be a pain, but they're quite rare
12:30:31  <Mikachu> i modified the script so it only uses readable colors
12:30:39  <Guest56> words are colors :S
12:30:49  <Brianetta> Guest56: They have colour
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12:30:57  <Guest56> guest?
12:30:59  <Guest56> ah..
12:31:04  <Darkvater> "One day," I said to my father, "I realized that to make an 'R' all I had to do was first write a 'P' and then draw a line down from its loop. And I was so surprised that I could turn a yellow letter into an orange letter just by adding a line."
12:31:09  <Darkvater> hehe
12:31:22  <Guest56> <-- Gonozal_VIII
12:31:24  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Who wrote that?
12:31:38  <Brianetta> That's perceptive as hell, although the colours are different from mine
12:31:41  <Darkvater> --Writer Patricia Lynne Duffy, recalling an early experience.[1]
12:31:52  <Darkvater> (wikipedia)
12:31:59  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:32:01  * Brianetta browses on over to Wikipedia
12:32:11  <Brianetta> Never thought they'd have an article on it - duh
12:32:12  <Darkvater>
12:32:22  <Brianetta> hmm, US spelling
12:32:53  <Guest56> nice
12:32:59  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
12:33:48  <Darkvater> cool, do the shape-test about 2/3rds down the page
12:33:59  <Gonozal_VIII> what's the color of ÄÖÜß ?
12:34:00  <Darkvater> I'm one of 95-98% of the people :)
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12:35:14  * Brianetta too
12:35:23  <Brianetta> kiki is so obviously formed with spikes inthe waveform
12:35:28  <Brianetta> so the spiky picture is natural
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12:37:13  <Brianetta> I get music-colour too
12:38:11  <Brianetta> If I close my eyes to music I perceive quite a light show
12:38:30  <Darkvater> he, must be pretty neat
12:38:50  <Brianetta> I don' tknow
12:39:03  <Brianetta> I don't know what dark music would be like
12:40:36  <Mikachu> Brianetta: what happens if a word is written in colored text? do you still feel the same color as white text + seeing the actual color?
12:41:15  <Brianetta> Mikachu: It looks wrong
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12:41:22  <Brianetta> I mentally try to correct it
12:41:38  <Mikachu> hm, weird
12:41:39  <Brianetta>
12:41:44  <Brianetta> That, for example, is just wrong
12:41:52  <Brianetta> Each letter isn't coloured for me
12:42:07  <Brianetta> The word as a whole gains a colour, which might be a gradient along its length
12:42:08  * valhallasw is gone again
12:42:17  <Brianetta> and the background colour can change.
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12:42:19  <Mikachu> so Mikachu and Mika chu are different?
12:42:24  <Brianetta> oh yeah
12:42:36  * Mikachu has never heard of this before
12:42:37  <Brianetta> chu is pale blue-green
12:42:47  <Brianetta> Mika is a darker blue
12:42:59  <Brianetta> Mikachu isn't quite the same as either
12:43:06  <Brianetta> but it's still blueish
12:43:08  <Brianetta> perhaps darker
12:43:27  <Mikachu> what happens if you gradually drag the word apart? :)
12:43:53  <Brianetta> It changes colour when it stops moving, or when I start to percieve it as two words
12:43:58  <Mikachu> ah
12:44:29  <Brianetta> Mika actually has a touch of yellow that neither Mikachu nor chu have
12:45:16  <Gonozal_VIII> and kach ?
12:45:36  <Brianetta> Grey.
12:45:38  <Mikachu> does this help with catching spelling errors, or does a word get the same color as the correctly spelled word until you notice the typo?
12:45:49  <Brianetta> Grey on grey, with a sort of green drop-shadow.
12:46:14  * HMage wonders whether he has joined the wrong channel
12:46:17  <Brianetta> Mikachu: It's all about perception, and similar words can sometimes have similar colours anyway
12:46:22  <Mikachu> sorry, but i find it very interesting :)
12:46:29  <Brianetta> so if I don't see a mis-spelling, it look sright
12:46:47  <Brianetta> right went completely white thre, though
12:46:51  <Brianetta> wth the s on it
12:47:24  <Brianetta> right is normally very dark grey-green
12:47:51  <Darkvater> hehe
12:48:21  <Gonozal_VIII> und deutsche wörter? <-- and german words?
12:48:31  <Brianetta> Doch, alles mit Farben
12:48:41  <Gonozal_VIII> die gleichen farben?
12:48:48  <Brianetta> Ja
12:48:52  <Gonozal_VIII> cool
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12:49:22  <peter1138> do you get sounds and smells with that?
12:49:29  <Brianetta> peter1138: no
12:49:41  <Brianetta> I do get coloured patterns for music
12:49:51  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
12:49:52  <Brianetta> and some ryhthmic sounds
12:50:44  <Darkvater> hiya Celestar
12:50:47  <Celestar> hey ho
12:50:55  * Celestar is just downloading openSUSE 10.2
12:51:03  <Darkvater> :O it's out?
12:51:06  <Brianetta> Celestar: We're just discussing synaesthesia
12:51:11  <Gonozal_VIII> ever tried to paint what you see?
12:51:26  <Celestar> Darkvater: since about 30 minutes ago
12:51:31  <Darkvater> cool
12:51:34  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: No, the colours are beyond my ability to paint.  Sharply defined, and tiny nuances matter.
12:51:35  <Darkvater> lemme know how it is
12:51:42  * Darkvater might be interested
12:51:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: not worse than 10.1, that's for sure ;S
12:52:13  <Darkvater> don't seem too enthousiastic )
12:52:39  <Celestar> actually 10.1 was a good distro, only the package management system was ... suboptimal
12:52:42  <Celestar> :S
12:52:51  <Darkvater> I can talk about that
12:53:05  <Celestar> Darkvater: I have reverted to only using y2pmsh which is rock solid
12:53:07  <Darkvater> at one time I couldn't even update since the zen-update fucked up everything
12:53:13  <Darkvater> even y2pmsh wouldn't work :(
12:53:24  <Darkvater> so I got the smart-package manager and am happy with that now
12:54:28  <peter1138> ok
12:54:32  <peter1138> is this a bug?
12:54:35  <Celestar> 80MB downloaded
12:54:41  <Darkvater> zen? yes
12:54:41  <Celestar> of 8GB
12:54:42  <Celestar> :S
12:54:53  <peter1138> low powered heavy trains can't stop going down hill
12:54:58  <Darkvater> heeh lol
12:55:03  <Darkvater> "but trainslators requested"
12:55:08  <Celestar> peter1138: that IS possible
12:55:12  <Darkvater> who are you? I'm a trainslayer!
12:55:29  <peter1138> Celestar: but surely braking effort has no relationship with engine power?
12:55:33  <Celestar> peter1138: at least theoretically. I have seen trains having engines added just to assist braking
12:55:48  <Celestar> peter1138: not really but usually: bigger engines == more brake power
12:56:00  <Mikachu> don't all wagons usually have breaks too?
12:56:05  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: THe only downside of coloured words is when I mix similarly coloured names up.  I don't confuse Dave and Dan, for example, bu tI can easily confuse Stewart and Robert.
12:56:06  <peter1138> also, because force = power / speed
12:56:11  <Celestar> Mikachu: yes but they are not powered
12:56:14  <peter1138> we apply fuck all braking force at speed
12:56:21  <peter1138> which seems to me to be wrong
12:56:41  <Celestar> where is Bjarni when you need him?
12:56:42  <Celestar> :P
12:56:43  <Brianetta> SO if you're called RObert, I might accidentally call you Stewart if I'm struggling to remember your name.
12:56:43  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- Robert, not
12:56:55  <Gonozal_VIII> steward ;-)
12:56:59  <Gonozal_VIII> t
12:57:03  <Gonozal_VIII> ..
12:57:11  <peter1138> Patrick Robert
12:58:08  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7414 /trunk/window.c: -Fix: Immediately invalidate the resize widget when clicked, instead of when started to drag
12:58:27  <peter1138> Celestar: so what's a sensible break force, heh
12:58:40  <peter1138> Mikachu: not on early wagons, hence break vans
12:59:02  <Celestar> peter1138: good question. next question
12:59:15  <Brianetta> brake vans
12:59:18  <Brianetta> not break vans
12:59:22  <Brianetta> Kit-kat wagons
12:59:26  <Celestar> broken vans?
12:59:30  <Brianetta> Kit-kat wagon-wheels
12:59:47  <peter1138> *sigh*
12:59:50  <Celestar> OMG
12:59:53  <peter1138> Celestar: so what's a sensible brake force, heh
12:59:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i think friction is more important for breaking than engine power
12:59:56  <peter1138> Mikachu: not on early wagons, hence brake vans
13:00:03  <Celestar> wtf ... french firefighters .. :o
13:00:07  <Mikachu> heh
13:00:23  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: we already apply friction, but that is very low for trains
13:00:30  <Mikachu> don't real trains take something like 10km to actually stop?
13:00:36  <peter1138> especially down hill :)
13:00:36  <Mikachu> maybe i meant 1km there
13:00:43  <Celestar> ... have a look at 5:30 if you don't want to wait
13:00:55  <Celestar> Mikachu: 10km is more realistic than 1km
13:01:01  <Celestar> (depends on train)
13:01:05  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7415 /trunk/ (build_vehicle_gui.c player_gui.c train_gui.c):
13:01:05  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Don't use typedef enum for simple widget enumerators when we will never use
13:01:05  <CIA-1>  their type anyways.
13:01:11  <peter1138> indeed, it depends
13:01:16  <Celestar> an ICE3 takes about 4km to full stop on a emergeency brakes
13:01:20  <Celestar> Darkvater: check that link :)
13:01:53  <Gonozal_VIII> force / mass - speed * (wagons * wagon friction + engine friction) = acceleration <-- like that thing i wrote earlier for acceleration where wagon and engine friction are constants and contain air and wheel things
13:03:17  <peter1138> mmm, smoking tyres
13:03:26  <peter1138> or brakes
13:03:44  <Celestar> peter1138: wait a bit more
13:03:45  <Darkvater> Celestar: hehe guy jumping away ;p
13:04:03  <peter1138> don't understand a word of it
13:04:04  <Brianetta> Tyne and Wear Metro have track brakes
13:04:16  <Brianetta> Metre-long shoes which can be pressed to the track surface
13:04:19  <Celestar> peter1138: the pilots are asking for a ladder to get out.
13:04:24  <Brianetta> Between the wheels on each bogey
13:04:28  <peter1138> not at 2:33
13:04:36  <Celestar> peter1138: well not yet. but they will ^^
13:06:07  <Brianetta> actually, I just learned that theyr'e electromagnetic, and don't actually move to contact the rail
13:06:33  <Darkvater>
13:06:35  <Darkvater> comments?
13:07:09  <Brianetta> Oh, they do contact the rail
13:07:14  * Brianetta reads on
13:07:29  <peter1138> ok
13:07:33  <peter1138> he's a bit far
13:07:34  <peter1138> heh
13:07:41  <Celestar> Darkvater: what does the diff do?
13:08:02  <Darkvater> only think I'm not too happy about is the dropdown thing that does SetDParam(3, depot_name[vl->vehicle_type - VEH_Train]); to get different dynamic strings into dropdown
13:08:10  <Darkvater> I have a feeling it only works cause it's lucky :(
13:08:14  <peter1138> biin biin
13:08:18  <Darkvater> Celestar:
13:08:20  <peter1138> boom boom even
13:09:06  <peter1138> they're not doing a very good job of this
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13:09:15  <Celestar> peter1138: not at all
13:11:48  <peter1138> hmm
13:11:53  <peter1138> even a deltic won't stop
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13:12:33  <Mikachu> Darkvater: nice company name :)
13:13:17  <Darkvater> it's not my game
13:13:19  * HMage would like flags for start and stop near the dragging icon
13:13:20  <Darkvater> what does it mean?
13:13:41  <peter1138> Darkvater: yes, don't use SetDParam() for a dropdown list, heh
13:13:48  <Mikachu> it doesn't make a lot of sense in english, but "the state's iron nails"
13:14:19  <Mikachu> this kind of nails
13:14:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: had that slight feeling :(.
13:14:43  <CIA-1> maedhros * r7416 /branches/newhouses/newgrf_house.c: [NewHouses] -Featurelet: Add support for variable 62. (Based on a patch by peter1138)
13:14:57  <Mikachu> "järnspikar" is like "damnit" too
13:15:45  <Darkvater> don't have a pic of it, but the train vehicle list window is a bit wider than the others. Should 'availableengines/manage list' be both wider to accommodate ofr standard window width or not?
13:16:20  <HMage> I see no need.
13:16:51  <HMage> I, for one, distinguish what that window is by it's default size when it pops up.
13:18:11  <Darkvater> eg
13:18:13  <peter1138> ok
13:18:16  <Darkvater> or
13:18:45  <Darkvater> imagine the 'ships' window in v2 as the train in v4
13:20:21  *** Osai^2 [] has quit [Quit: Osai^2]
13:20:58  <HMage> As far as I understand you mean that listings for different type of transports have different window sizes now?
13:21:07  <Darkvater> nvm, removed it
13:21:44  <Darkvater> HMage: I meant the train window is a bit unless the bottom widgets are rearranged there will be 'empty' space on the right
13:22:32  <Darkvater> hmm this needs a better pic
13:22:35  <Darkvater> *confusing*
13:22:36  <HMage> can you try to move start/stop buttons to the right? that might look less empty
13:22:47  <HMage> Ie attached to the right side of the window
13:23:13  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Difficult call.  I like 4, but would imagine that it gets uglier with very wide windowss.
13:23:32  <Celestar> peter1138: survived the video?
13:24:16  <Darkvater> Brianetta: no, because the dropdown will stay the same length
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13:26:12  <peter1138> hmmm
13:26:12  <peter1138> is it me
13:26:13  <peter1138> or
13:26:15  <peter1138> should
13:26:20  <peter1138> i write stuff on one line
13:26:22  <peter1138> no
13:26:24  <peter1138> return min((-force - resistance) / (mass * 4), 10000 / (mass * 4));
13:26:26  <peter1138> should perhaps be
13:26:35  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Oh, I thought the two buttons were just width/2
13:26:37  <Darkvater>
13:26:38  <Darkvater> there
13:26:43  <peter1138> return min((-force - resistance) / (mass * 4), -10000 / (mass * 4));
13:26:59  <peter1138> as it is, the minimum braking force is... acceleration
13:27:01  <Darkvater> Brianetta: no, that'd be ugly when the window is resized horizontally (eg v3)
13:27:16  <Brianetta> cool.
13:27:29  <Darkvater> peter1138: it's growing bigger and bigger ;p
13:27:36  <Brianetta> In that case, 4 ('Original 2') is my favourite.
13:27:39  <Darkvater> Original is how the window looks when you open it
13:28:13  <Darkvater> Brianetta: thought so; that's the most work ;p
13:28:25  <peter1138> what is?
13:28:31  <Darkvater> Original2
13:28:31  <Brianetta> Although, in this instance, I'm also attractied to the consistence of 1
13:28:35  <Darkvater> peter1138: your formula
13:28:41  <peter1138> Darkvater: no
13:28:43  <peter1138> that's already there
13:28:50  <peter1138> i just think there's a missing -
13:28:56  <Brianetta> where all the buttons are the same size
13:29:04  <Brianetta> damnit, now I'm all ambivalent
13:29:10  <peter1138> in which case, it's possible that braking will speed you up
13:29:17  <peter1138> (but not as much as accelerating will)
13:29:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: ah :) that's cool ^^
13:29:28  <Darkvater> Brianetta: make up your mind ;p
13:29:33  <Brianetta> 1.
13:29:47  * Darkvater deletes 20 lines of code :)
13:29:52  <Brianetta> (-:
13:30:07  <peter1138> Darkvater: and my delay-fix is actually smaller
13:30:10  <Brianetta> Extra bonus (:
13:30:17  <peter1138> force = max(power, (mass * 8) + resistance);
13:30:34  <Darkvater> but does that work down/up-hill?
13:30:41  <Darkvater> Brianetta: great..committage
13:30:44  <Darkvater> hmm
13:30:47  <Darkvater> damn
13:30:49  <peter1138> seems to
13:30:59  <Darkvater> I needa figure out what to do with this SetDParam for dropdownlist
13:31:14  <Darkvater> probably 4 strings, then substitute array runtime
13:31:15  <Darkvater> bleh
13:31:21  <Brianetta> Darkvater: You can now add a "Self Destruct" option to the drop-down
13:31:26  <Darkvater> why are dynamic strings so crappy
13:31:27  <Brianetta> which makes the trains explode
13:31:30  <peter1138> the thing with the kick off force
13:31:38  <peter1138> is during the delay it is moving
13:31:46  <peter1138> but only slightly
13:31:58  <peter1138> then it gets to 1 mph
13:32:12  <peter1138> and suddenly *wham* double the power of the engine is applied
13:32:31  <Brianetta> *wham* (-:
13:32:50  <Brianetta> You make them sound lke so much more than 30 pixel sprites (:
13:33:06  <Darkvater> lol
13:33:47  <Mikachu> eek, watching a busy station with pbs signals is scary
13:34:11  <Gonozal_VIII> screenie :D
13:34:15  <Brianetta> Mikachu: You wait till there's a crash
13:34:24  <Brianetta> Then it just ets scarier and scarier
13:34:40  <Brianetta> When the crashed loco is removed, other trains assume the block is clear
13:34:45  <Brianetta> and the wagons might still be there...
13:34:58  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
13:35:00  <Mikachu> nice coding
13:35:04  <Brianetta> You can lose your entire fleet like that
13:35:27  <Brianetta> You can cause the initial crash by changing any of the PBS signals whle there's a train in the block
13:35:49  <Brianetta> Then you shout "No! Stop!" at the train that decides it's clear to cross
13:35:50  <Gonozal_VIII> never change a running system
13:35:54  <peter1138> mmm, pbs :D
13:35:58  <Brianetta> and while you desperately try to click it and stop it
13:36:00  <Brianetta> it crashes
13:36:25  <Brianetta> It's too hard to stop trains in an emergency
13:36:37  <Mikachu> just like in real life
13:36:40  <peter1138> especially down hill ;)
13:36:44  <Brianetta> Even if you react in time, you can't physically get the window open and stop clicked fast enough sometimes
13:36:44  <peter1138> which i'm trying to fix
13:37:12  <Gonozal_VIII> rl doesn't have a pause button
13:37:17  <Mikachu> hrm, wonder why trains are leaving without a full load when set to full load now, this miniin stuff seems pretty crazy
13:37:20  <Brianetta> Neither do multiplayer games
13:37:23  <peter1138> Brianetta: if you're me, you end up in a panic and accidentally double click or something...
13:37:28  <Brianetta> peter1138: yes (:
13:37:52  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe a "stop all trains" button would be good
13:37:59  <peter1138> there is one
13:38:00  <Mikachu> what the heck does "full load of vehicle" mean?
13:38:17  <Gonozal_VIII> there is? should play more...
13:38:59  <HMage> Mikachu: that's a bug in savegame loading, you have to change orders - remove full load, then set it back
13:39:10  <Mikachu> that only happens the first time you switch to miniin?
13:39:21  <HMage> don't know if it's fixed or not, but some of my old savegames have their orders screwed up
13:39:32  <Mikachu> it would be a bit annoying to do every time :)
13:39:40  <HMage> should happen only once
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13:40:26  <HMage> I've only had 4 unique paths (vehicles used shared orders), so I've had to change that in four places.
13:40:55  <HMage> another problem that might lurk in current miniin - gradual load (or unload) might not work
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13:41:32  <HMage> you arrive at the station with 25 tonns of coal per wagon, and leave with 20 tonns of coal per wagon. Got me some time to realise something was wrong.
13:41:38  <Mikachu> heh
13:41:46  <HMage> it's fixed though, next build should be ok
13:42:04  <Mikachu> i'm using svn, it's easier than finding some http page :)
13:42:19  <HMage> but that's what you pay for using nightlies and miniin - it's Work In Progres :)
13:42:25  <HMage> er
13:42:31  <HMage> progress :)
13:42:41  <HMage> damn misspelling goblins
13:42:44  <glx> HMage: I warned users in "MiniIN problems" thread :)
13:43:00  <peter1138> Maedhros: did you come up with a fix?
13:43:01  <Mikachu> i just want to see what the future might have in store
13:43:51  <peter1138> so...?
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13:44:11  <HMage> Mikachu: well, some of the miniin features might never be integrated into official builds
13:44:20  *** e1ko [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.6/2006102918]]
13:44:41  <peter1138> hmm, that actually gives maglevs a huge power boost below 3 mph
13:48:17  <Mikachu> pbs really helps my totally idiotic 6-track terminus station though :)
13:49:59  <Gonozal_VIII> i still want to see a screenshot^^
13:50:15  <Mikachu> i'm waiting for the trains to align nicely
13:50:27  <Maedhros> peter1138: oh, fix for full load any? not yet
13:53:47  <Mikachu> Gonozal_VIII:
13:54:19  <Gonozal_VIII> toyland O_o
13:54:24  <Mikachu> of course
13:55:11  <Mikachu> this is from earlier today
13:55:52  <Darkvater> peter1138: if you say so :)
13:56:00  <peter1138> Darkvater: what?
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13:56:08  <Darkvater> rafix
13:56:12  <peter1138> ah
13:56:33  <Gonozal_VIII> i would have built that station completely different
13:56:41  <peter1138> differently
13:56:48  <Mikachu> it sort of growed on its own :)
13:56:53  <peter1138> i would've scrapped it and played in a landscape that doesn't hurt my eyes
13:56:54  <Gonozal_VIII> ok..
13:56:59  <peter1138> growed, heh
13:57:32  <Mikachu> i thought of building a roro station on the other side of the toy factory, but too lazy
13:58:11  <CIA-1> glx * r7417 /branches/MiniIN/clear_cmd.c: [MiniIN][DragBuyingLand] -Fix: costs for demolishing tile were not added on purshasing it (gigajum)
13:58:17  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't have to be on the other side, there is enough space
13:58:53  <Mikachu> i don't want to stop the trains while i build :)
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13:59:25  <Mikachu> anyway i am just trying out having a huge network instead of ptp routes
13:59:33  <Maedhros> peter1138: if you've got a convenient savegame, please could you test this?
13:59:35  <Maedhros>
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14:00:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i always try to hava a maximum of trains on the mainline.. short signal distances, no points where trains have to slow down or stop and such..
14:02:03  <Gonozal_VIII> just one train that has to slow down causes the following 20 trains to stop...
14:03:28  <Darkvater> \o/
14:04:13  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7418 /trunk/ (build_vehicle_gui.c lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.c):
14:04:13  <CIA-1> -Codechange/Feature: Put back the 'New Vehicles' button in the vehicle list window. As
14:04:13  <CIA-1>  things won't fit now because of too many buttons, move 'send to depot' and 'autoreplace'
14:04:13  <CIA-1>  to a dropdown box (and seperate 'send to depot' and 'send for servicing').
14:04:13  <CIA-1>  The 'New Vehicles' button shows a list of all engines you have available for that vehicle
14:04:14  <CIA-1>  type (in case of trains all railtypes). Button is only enabled for global list.
14:04:15  * Darkvater kic
14:04:18  <Darkvater> there we go
14:06:51  <Darkvater> now to fix up the languages
14:08:21  *** kampasky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:20:12  <Celestar> hmm
14:20:18  <Celestar> how do I delete a repository in svn?
14:20:31  <Brianetta> woohoo
14:20:35  <Brianetta> I am using PuTTY for Linux
14:20:40  <Celestar> wtf?
14:20:54  <Brianetta> You look puzzled
14:22:31  <hylje> :o
14:22:44  <hylje> i havent arsed enough to fetch putty
14:22:54  <hylje> ssh + term ought to be enough for anybody
14:23:15  <Brianetta> well
14:23:25  <Brianetta> First of all, with PuTTY I can use ppk format keys
14:23:56  <Brianetta> secondly, openssh really spits out its dummy if your secret key has the wrong permissions
14:24:16  <Triffid_Hunter> as it should
14:24:26  <Brianetta> Since I can gain additional security by keeping my key on a removable medium, which uses a filesystem which doesn't understand Unix permissions, this is a more workable solution.
14:25:12  <peter1138> or you could tell mount to use appropriate options to restrict permission
14:25:15  <Brianetta> The key is passphrased anyway.  Unix permissions, on my single user machine, are no defence.
14:25:24  <Brianetta> peter1138: Its automounted.
14:25:41  <Brianetta> No defence at all.
14:26:19  <peter1138> *** Player has left the game (could not load map)
14:26:20  <peter1138> :D
14:26:34  <Brianetta> *** Player has tried again
14:26:34  <Brianetta> *** Player has tried again
14:26:35  <Brianetta> *** Player has tried again
14:26:38  <peter1138> hehe
14:28:30  <peter1138> Darkvater: ^^
14:28:46  <Brianetta> (:
14:32:54  <Darkvater> peter1138: :O
14:33:47  <peter1138> ignore the train_cmd.c bit on the end ;)
14:36:20  <Darkvater> well if you're intent on committing it :)
14:36:44  <Mikachu> perhaps an argument against including pbs
14:37:03  <peter1138> heh
14:37:21  <Darkvater> o-O
14:37:26  <hylje> ..
14:37:26  <Darkvater> I didn't commit every language
14:37:28  <hylje> what.
14:40:00  <Darkvater> so, what else is left now for 0.5 apart from newgrf UI for MP and sending it over
14:40:53  <peter1138> fixing the stuff in station_gui?
14:40:55  <peter1138> or did you do that?
14:41:14  <Darkvater> I'll let belugas do that
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14:41:48  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7419 /trunk/lang/ (22 files): -[lang] Fix up the language files after r7418
14:41:52  <Darkvater> and there he is :)
14:46:16  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7420 /trunk/lang/ (english.txt icelandic.txt romanian.txt russian.txt): -[lang] Dammit, there are too many language files, missed some from the list.
14:46:25  * peter1138 kicks CIA-1
14:46:25  <CIA-1> ow
14:46:31  <peter1138> hmm
14:48:44  <peter1138> and then...
14:48:48  <peter1138>
14:49:25  <peter1138> fixes the problem of trains not being able to stop down hill
14:49:28  <Darkvater> that '-' solves the whole thing?
14:49:48  <peter1138> yeah
14:49:59  <Darkvater> he
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14:51:52  <peter1138> without the - there is no guaranteed braking force
14:52:07  <peter1138> it just limits the acceleration rate down hill
14:53:01  <Darkvater> so we actually didn't have any braking force only less acc?
14:53:06  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7421 /trunk/train_cmd.c:
14:53:06  <CIA-1> -Fix (r2475): Changed "kick off" acceleration resulted in only a small amount of
14:53:06  <CIA-1> power being applied whilst moving off and then double the power at 1 mph. This
14:53:06  <CIA-1> resulted in a perceived delay before trains moved. Fix this by applying the full
14:53:06  <CIA-1> power of the engine (or the kick off, whichever is greater). Essay over.
14:53:30  <peter1138> Darkvater: we did, but not much
14:53:52  <peter1138> Darkvater: because we have force = power / speed earlier, there is hardly any force applied at high speed
14:54:17  <peter1138> so when going downhill, the weight of the train can easily counteract that force
14:54:26  <peter1138> so then it applies even less force
14:54:31  <peter1138> because it goes faster :)
14:54:43  <Brianetta> rolling trains (:
14:54:54  <Darkvater> peter1138: how does that work irl?
14:55:16  <peter1138> Darkvater: in real life i don't think braking force is totally dependent on engine power and velocity
14:55:45  <peter1138> more the weight of the locomotive (and any braked wagons)
14:56:05  <Darkvater> gaah, my openttd is in bulgarian
14:56:09  <peter1138> heh
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15:01:10  <peter1138> so, you reckon that's good too?
15:01:12  <Darkvater>
15:01:19  <Darkvater> do we want that fixed?
15:01:25  <Darkvater> peter1138: bulgarian?
15:01:38  <peter1138> braking
15:01:48  <peter1138> ship in way? hehe
15:02:01  <Darkvater> nah, I'll leave it in as easter-egg
15:02:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: your question does not compute. I think once RA is in, we need formula for breaking
15:02:40  <peter1138> we have RA...
15:02:43  <peter1138> well, fake RA
15:04:16  <peter1138> so you want a better braking system? Hmm
15:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Darkvater: the "dropdown list" in those pictures looks to be 1 pixel off in x and y direction (top left corner)
15:04:34  <Darkvater> well not now
15:04:52  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: that's intentional; all dropdowns look like that
15:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i just want to state that i hate that gap
15:05:39  <Darkvater> you are welcomt to your opinion
15:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably does not matter if the dropdown list is in the window
15:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but with the game shining through the gap, it looks strange
15:06:18  *** Tefad [] has joined #openttd
15:07:03  <Brianetta> breaking, hee hee
15:08:35  <Darkvater> Brianetta: what's so funny? Does it have a special colour? ^^
15:09:57  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:10:49  <DannyA> Hey again, Our trip to the movies (bond) started off well. Bought the tickets on the net so didn't need to line up, and a car was pulling out just as we entered the car park - which was packed for thursday night shopping. We got great seats right in the middle - the pirate chairs & the adds at the start of the movie were a surprisingly entertaining, since half of them played backwards and upside down (sound too).  The first 3/4 of the movie really good, b
15:10:49  <DannyA> hat last 1/4 since the film wrapped round the projector & got burnt (apparently). Maybe we can see the rest another time... :)
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15:15:02  <DannyA> What I wanted to ask about peter1138, and KUDr_wrk, or anyone else, if if you had any ideas on how I can walk back down each path at a rail intersection to look for trains?
15:16:17  <peter1138> you'd need to do... da da da... more path finding
15:16:44  <peter1138> although it could be a simplistic recursive track piece follower
15:17:07  <peter1138> performance?
15:17:24  <DannyA> I was wondering about setting up a Follower type or struct or whatever it is for that specific purpose.
15:17:37  <DannyA> That's what I'm trying to be wary of.
15:18:23  <DannyA> Easiest way may be to fire up another pathfinder at that point, but I don't know if that would be very light.
15:19:33  <DannyA> I have trouble getting my head around all the templates and types with this one.
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15:21:40  <DannyA> The difference between this and normal path find, is that it need to check paths that the train can't actually reach, and also it must go to all the nodes - up to 10 tiles away or whatever I use, but not decide it's got a good path and not check some.
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15:27:35  <imachine_> neural networks ai pathfinding
15:27:36  <imachine_> ;-)
15:27:41  <imachine_> here's your solution
15:27:42  <imachine_> ^^
15:28:03  <DannyA> I was thinking of using that for the arrival time estimation
15:28:27  <KUDr_wrk> DannyA: but you need to know it the other train is heading your junction or not. You can't tell that any train you find there will not choose another way. The other problem is performance. If you will search for trains on 30 tile/tracks (4 lines merged together) you need to invoke GetVehicleFromPos() 30 times.
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15:28:42  <DannyA> Use the power speed etc as inputs & train the network once each frame based on actual results
15:29:23  <imachine_> yes nad remember TTD ran smoothly on 486 DX/2
15:29:26  <imachine_> 66Mhz
15:29:38  <Mikachu> i think i played it on 486SX 25mhz
15:29:44  <imachine_> oh but not so smooth
15:29:54  <imachine_> with more vehicles and all, it lagged towards the end even on my 66mhz
15:29:56  <Mikachu> also dungeon master 2 and doom
15:30:23  <imachine_> oh but doom, not that tough on the resources.
15:30:33  <Mikachu> had to select low detail though
15:30:36  <imachine_> doom ran on 386, and that was SX too.
15:30:56  <imachine_> the math proc really did a good job on the DX's
15:31:18  <imachine_> those were the days, silent computers.
15:31:33  <imachine_> no fans no bullshit, slow hd's so all you could hear was the AT psu
15:31:47  <imachine_> now even my fucking tft screen has a fan in it.
15:32:00  <imachine_> it's actually louder than the comp itself
15:32:01  <imachine_> ;p
15:32:26  <Mikachu> hah
15:32:45  <Mikachu> my amd 900mhz was so silent, a friend who came over pushed the power button to turn it on when he entered the room, shutting it down
15:32:55  <imachine_> he he
15:33:35  <imachine_> i got this PIII933 from dell now, but it's a hack of the dells original setup, it doesn't hae the plastic tube above the cpu so the fan runs a bit faster since it's smaller and it seems to cause a bit more movement hence more noise
15:33:57  <imachine_> part from that, it's the bloody IBM tft that makes the most of it
15:34:27  <imachine_> was a spot on hit tho, less than a hundred quid for a 17" TFT a year ago, good price methinks
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15:40:59  <DannyA> So, is that VehicleFromPos() the only way to find a vehicle given a tile?
15:42:10  <KUDr_wrk> yes
15:42:31  <peter1138> mmm, slow
15:43:20  <DannyA> Ah, bugger.
15:43:33  <DannyA> That might be a problem.
15:43:42  <smeding> wait. time to buy batteries.
15:43:43  <KUDr_wrk> [11:13:48] <DannyA> Eventually when the forces equal out - it will stop speeding up and be at max speed - or that what they told us in highschool anyway. << it happens very rarely in the real world. Once train reaches the construction speed limit it has usually big force reserve but can't use it due to max-speed
15:43:55  <smeding> i'm gonna need my mp3 player in the bus to avoid going mad
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15:45:34  <DannyA> Yeah I don't know much about trains so don't doubt that.
15:46:02  <Brianetta> KUDr_wrk: How easy would speed limits be on track?  An advantage to this would be a busy line.  Limiting all trains on that line to a given speed would smooth out the traffic, eliminating som estop-start in the faster trains.
15:46:21  <KUDr_wrk> air and wheel resistance is minimal for trains, normal train (at least here in cz) once it reaches its travellling speed the driver can switch off engines and travel several hunderts of kilometers without using engine
15:46:22  <DannyA> I think I missinterprited you when I was talking last night KUDr_work, sorry. Not use to this IRC you see.
15:46:39  <Brianetta> air resistance increases significantly at speed
15:47:20  <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: not for trains (you mix it with car!)
15:47:29  <DannyA> One thing that is cirtain though - for any object to remain at a constant speed all forces must balance to 0. In the case of trains I guess the just lay off the gas.
15:47:30  <Brianetta> KUDr_wrk: It's a principle of physics.
15:47:37  <Brianetta> I don't know shit about cars
15:47:45  <KUDr_wrk> trains engine force is 20x higher than air resistance
15:47:56  <Brianetta> At which speed?
15:47:58  * Darkvater starts closing random bugreports
15:48:01  <DannyA> Not if it is not speeding up. I promise
15:48:04  <Darkvater> peter1138: wanna show KUDr_wrk ?
15:48:07  <KUDr_wrk> exactly! it is physics
15:48:12  <peter1138> hmm, what?
15:48:23  <KUDr_wrk> i saw it
15:48:27  <KUDr_wrk> the diff
15:48:39  <Darkvater> _the_ diff ;p
15:48:43  <peter1138> oh, that one
15:48:45  <peter1138> ;)
15:48:49  <peter1138> anyway
15:49:03  <peter1138> eventually the engine's force will equal out with air resistance
15:49:20  <peter1138> physics is good
15:49:24  <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: aroung 100 kmps for normal engines
15:49:32  <KUDr_wrk> kmph :)
15:50:01  <DannyA> One thing I'm was wondering was if the power relates directly to the force regardless of speed.
15:50:03  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: no - it can happen at airplane speeds
15:50:15  <glx> KUDr: hehe 6000kmph was indeed to much :)
15:50:21  <KUDr_wrk> not in regular train speeds
15:50:39  <peter1138> well, there are also the engineering limits
15:50:43  <peter1138> but the principle holds
15:50:45  <KUDr_wrk> air resistance has no influence to train acceleration at all
15:50:54  <KUDr_wrk> avery train driver can tell you that
15:51:28  <peter1138> that is rubbish
15:51:40  <peter1138> there is always some
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15:51:50  <KUDr_wrk> up to engineering limits the force is relatively high
15:52:03  <KUDr_wrk> then the engine must slow down
15:52:25  <KUDr_wrk> totally different than what you call "physics" now
15:52:54  <KUDr_wrk> always some - yes, but at least 10x smaller than engine force at full speed
15:53:15  <KUDr_wrk> so you can forget it and error will be much smaller than now
15:53:18  <Brianetta> 10% is significant
15:53:23  <DannyA> It really is simple: (Forces from front + forces from back + forces from side) / mass = accelleration or rate of change of speed. It makes no difference what the speed at the time is or how powerful the engine is. If it doesn't add up then you are missing some forces.
15:53:27  <KUDr_wrk> now it is nonsense as it behaves
15:53:49  <Mikachu> how large is friction to the track compared to air resistance then?
15:54:03  <Brianetta> It's ver small
15:54:09  <DannyA> The realistic accleration should be as simple as that as well. Just build functions to return forces & tune them to get what you need.
15:54:10  <KUDr_wrk> also very small
15:54:16  <KUDr_wrk> only hills counts
15:54:19  <Brianetta> If air resistance wasn't significant trains wouldn't ever be streamlined
15:54:30  <Mikachu> maybe it isn't significant because they are streamlined :)
15:54:30  <KUDr_wrk> at least in real life
15:54:49  <Brianetta> Mikachu: Not all trains are streamlined
15:54:56  <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: streamlining is not because of forces
15:55:02  <DannyA> Hills equate to a negative force given by the force of gravity acting on the mass for a given angle.
15:55:11  <KUDr_wrk> it is because what damage it can cause around
15:55:18  <KUDr_wrk> pushing the air
15:56:17  <Mikachu>
15:56:21  <Brianetta> I'm not going to argue this any more.  I don't know where you learned this.
15:56:29  <Mikachu> see, there is a whole paper on the issue
15:56:30  <KUDr_wrk> once train reaches 150 kmph, it continues for 3 hours without force (engines switched off) and ends up with 130 kmph
15:56:36  <KUDr_wrk> this is real life
15:56:40  <Mikachu> "The reduction of air resistance of high speed electric trains is especially important, as air resistance of trains increases faster than mechanical resistance in high speed."
15:57:33  <peter1138> 150 kmph is not especially fast, either, heh
15:57:46  <peter1138> air drag definitely applies
15:58:00  <KUDr_wrk> yes, but our trains with 100mph limits behave totally wrong
15:58:24  <KUDr_wrk> applies, but not so much as in ottd
15:58:24  <Mikachu> air resistance isn't exactly linear at high speeds either
15:58:33  <Brianetta> Mikachu: It's not even nearly linear
15:58:37  <DannyA> It may be possible that the force created by drag compared to the mass which it acts on produces insignificant accelleration - or decell...
15:58:50  <KUDr_wrk> this looks like we are calculating it for submarines, not trains
15:58:56  <peter1138> area * drag_coeff * speed * speed
15:58:57  <peter1138> heh
15:59:00  <Mikachu> that was "exactly" as in "the earth isn't exactly small" :)
15:59:17  <Brianetta> oh, right (:
16:02:01  <peter1138> hmm
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16:02:24  <peter1138> btw
16:02:36  <peter1138> i found a bug testing our air drag :)
16:02:47  <peter1138> i took out the braking force
16:03:01  <peter1138> leaving just airdrag and rolling resistance
16:03:11  <peter1138> if the train goes into the depot
16:03:17  <peter1138> it'll come out again started
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16:04:34  <Brianetta> You're saying, that trains cannot stop in a depot without brakes?
16:04:38  <Brianetta> Shocker!
16:04:45  <DannyA> Are there any possible solutions to the problem of not being able to tell which train is on a tile quickly? Like perhaps recording it, or like how the crash detection works?
16:05:15  <KUDr_wrk> DannyA: there is hash map already
16:05:31  <KUDr_wrk> but still slow if you will invoke it often
16:06:08  <DannyA> Not if it means you can only have 10 trains.
16:06:11  <peter1138> Brianetta: no, i'm saying they go in, then turn around, and come out again with full power
16:06:11  <KUDr_wrk> you need signals or junctions to remember which train is heading there
16:06:17  <Darkvater> o_O
16:06:18  <Brianetta> oooh
16:06:25  <Darkvater>
16:06:41  <Darkvater> improved loading, LoadWait 46% total OpenTTD CPU time
16:06:58  <peter1138> yeah
16:07:08  <peter1138> it does a lot of loops...
16:07:18  <DannyA> Maybe I can use the saved CPU for finding trains ;)
16:07:36  <peter1138> we should ditch it and come up with some other implementation
16:07:49  <DannyA> You mean the loading Peter?
16:07:56  <peter1138> improved loading
16:08:06  <Darkvater> well I think the biggest problem is that it loads EVERY vehicle in that function
16:08:09  <Brianetta> it's only improved in some respects.
16:08:56  <peter1138> it's known to reduce capacity anyway
16:09:00  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: the problem is that it doesn't maintain the vehicle queue for each cargo type
16:09:15  <peter1138> there isn't vehicle queue... but that's your point :)
16:09:23  <peter1138> s/isn't/is no/
16:09:27  <KUDr_wrk> this is what i told
16:11:17  <KUDr_wrk> i had it repaire in my year old c++ version
16:11:22  <KUDr_wrk> +d
16:11:40  <KUDr_wrk> i can look there and see how i did it
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16:12:08  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk:
16:12:11  <KUDr_wrk> but there was one problem - the queue needs to be added into savegame
16:12:11  <Darkvater> ^^
16:12:17  <KUDr_wrk> because of MP
16:12:37  <Darkvater> why? Doesn't each client create the same queue?
16:12:43  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: i am not sure if it was in that version
16:14:06  <KUDr_wrk> probably yes (st->load_queue_first = NULL)
16:15:11  <Mikachu> my impressions of the improved loading, that possibly have nothing to do with this discussion, is that it's good that one of the trains gets to leave instead of two half-full trains, but if there is enough cargo to fill both trains the second still has to wait for the first to finish loading
16:15:35  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-152-151.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:15:56  <Maedhros> yeah, we'd need proper fifo loading for that to happen though
16:16:09  <KUDr_wrk> STR_882H_LOADING_QUEUED                                         :{LTBLUE}Queued for load ( {ORANGE}{COMMA}{LTBLUE} )
16:16:14  <KUDr_wrk> iit was fifo
16:16:28  <Belugas> i would say it is logical... otherwise, it measn the station has enough manpower to handle every work load we can throw it
16:16:41  <Belugas> my two cents opinion...
16:16:57  <KUDr_wrk> Belugas: station should have enough force
16:16:57  <Mikachu> but that means a longer station has more work power than one with more tracks
16:17:07  <KUDr_wrk> this is why i build many platforms
16:17:11  <Mikachu> and if they load different cargo it works fine
16:17:18  <peter1138> Mikachu: that's pretty much the problem with it
16:17:19  <KUDr_wrk> bigger station should have more force
16:17:29  <DannyA> Perhaps cargo can be moved to the platform to be loaded - time from grf or something. Distinguish between waiting cargo & loading cargo owned by platform.
16:18:12  <Darkvater> ah Belugas ...
16:18:20  <peter1138> station has force?
16:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> air resistance grows with speed^3
16:18:27  <KUDr_wrk> handling one wagon should take some time, but they can be handled paralelly at the same time
16:18:32  <peter1138> does a station have air resistance? :)
16:18:48  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: workforce
16:18:50  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but it doesn't apply to trains, apparently
16:18:52  <Mikachu> only if it's moving at high speeds  :)
16:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so if it is 10% at 100km/h, it is 80% at 200km/h
16:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's physics, it applies to all moving objects
16:19:32  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: are you sure with that ^3 ?
16:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i am sure
16:19:48  <peter1138> i thought it was ^2
16:19:53  <peter1138> but i wouldn't know
16:20:01  <Mikachu> i'm pretty sure you can use whatever mixture of exponents works best
16:20:03  <KUDr_wrk> me too :)
16:20:18  <Mikachu> each term has a coefficient depending on the case
16:20:35  <DannyA> how does it go? the angle of the dangle = the cubic of the pubic ?
16:20:36  <peter1138> heh
16:20:55  <DannyA> something like that I think :)
16:21:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the actual force is speed^2, but you loose another speed factor from the dragging force
16:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> because force = power/speed
16:21:55  <KUDr_wrk> heh so ^2
16:22:01  <KUDr_wrk> much better
16:22:12  <DannyA> It's a really funny movie that -100 girls. Gaurenteed good laugh next time your at the dvd rental.
16:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so speed has an influence of ^3 to the resulting acelleration
16:22:26  <KUDr_wrk> to power
16:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the power is constant
16:22:48  <KUDr_wrk> accel is linear to force
16:23:07  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: return back to school
16:23:21  <KUDr_wrk> and give up your diplom
16:23:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have diplom ;)
16:23:49  <KUDr_wrk> or whatever they gave you
16:24:32  <DannyA> It's actualy got a name 'Newton's Second Law of Motion'   or just google physics force mass accelleration
16:24:40  <Ailure> hehe
16:24:55  <Ailure> I love how the AI builds roads
16:24:55  <Mikachu> <spoiler> F=m*a </spoiler>
16:24:55  <Ailure> even if there's no road vehicle avaible
16:25:06  <Brianetta> power from a wind turbine is proportional to the cube of the windspeed, so I'd go with Eddi, with resistance being cubic
16:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i do know how newtons physics
16:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> works
16:25:31  <Ailure> also that page reveals ho
16:25:35  <Ailure> that it's been too  long ago
16:25:38  <Ailure> since I did physics
16:26:35  <DannyA> I think I'll stick with Newton. I reckon he was on to it.
16:28:33  <Sacro> resistance will be cubic...
16:28:40  <Sacro> height*width*weight?
16:28:44  <DannyA> Well I would like to have a go at getting this penalty going even though it is likely to be too resource hungery to use - mainly coz I have a hard time understanding it.
16:29:13  <KUDr_wrk> DannyA: use signal states instead
16:29:33  <DannyA> OK
16:29:53  <KUDr_wrk> or try both
16:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> weight has absolutely no influence on air resistance
16:29:54  <DannyA> How can I detect if a tile is an intersection?
16:29:56  <KUDr_wrk> and compare
16:30:20  <KUDr_wrk> there is some api
16:30:29  <KUDr_wrk> for crossing tracks
16:30:36  <KUDr_wrk> and getting trackbits
16:30:39  <KUDr_wrk> and so on
16:30:59  <DannyA> I looked but didn't find any which would tell me if there were track which were unreachable.
16:31:36  <KUDr_wrk> hehe look at yapf track follower
16:31:42  <KUDr_wrk> it is in separated file
16:31:43  <DannyA> The TracksOverlap looked like a good candidate, but i suspect it will return false if there is a horizontal and a vertical track which are touching & I need true
16:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, if you go from 100km/h to 200km/h, you have a speed^2 factor from the area, and a speed factor from the dragging force of the engine, resulting in a speed^3 factor
16:31:59  <DannyA> :) OK hang on a tick...
16:32:03  <Sacro> is this newsignals talk?
16:32:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (for the effecively useable force)
16:32:31  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi: impossible
16:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> believe me, or not... i know what i know
16:32:51  <KUDr_wrk> speed -> force can't be ^3
16:32:59  <Brianetta> KUDr: It can
16:33:03  <KUDr_wrk> so you must be wrong
16:33:07  <DannyA> Sacro not really. I'm trying to find out how to do a busy intersection penalty.
16:33:09  <Brianetta> He isn't
16:33:35  <KUDr_wrk> ok, i will find it somewhere (newton doesn't know that)
16:33:50  <Brianetta>
16:34:48  <DannyA> This is what I want to setup: but the problem is I need to know if a trains is comming, and the only way to find out what train is on a tile is slow.
16:34:51  <Brianetta> "Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity."
16:35:24  <KUDr_wrk> power
16:35:29  <KUDr_wrk> but not force
16:35:40  <KUDr_wrk> this i explained eddi
16:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> power... force... it's a foreign language
16:35:57  <Sacro> hmm...
16:35:57  <Brianetta> power and force are directly proportional when mass is constant
16:36:02  <Sacro> power = mass * force?
16:36:22  <KUDr_wrk> power itself goes ^2 with speed with the constant force
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16:38:28  <Brianetta> KUDr's right
16:38:34  <Brianetta> force is square
16:38:37  <Brianetta> power is cubic
16:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and i admit that i meant power, not force
16:38:55  <Brianetta> Twice the speed requires four times the force
16:39:01  <KUDr_wrk> seems to be much more reasonable yes
16:39:34  <Brianetta> (to overcome wind)
16:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and power is the actually relevant value
16:39:49  <KUDr_wrk> no
16:39:59  <Brianetta> Depends whether we'reusing TE (force) or HP (power)
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16:40:21  <Sacro> oh noes
16:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> TE is relevant when starting, HP is relevant for max. speed
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16:40:47  <KUDr_wrk> forces count for acceleartion (engine - uphill + downhill - air.. etc)
16:40:51  <Mikachu> the max speed is given by the game
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16:41:10  <Mikachu> i think you can use the same variable for uphill and downhill :)
16:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean theoretical max speed
16:41:15  <Brianetta> Mikachu: That's not necessariy a given.  The physics patch discards that value, for example.
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16:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause> there are other factors that influence max speed of train
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16:41:30  <Sacro> yeah, its nice to have maglevs that can go as fast as their power allows
16:41:42  <Mikachu> ever heard of "safety factor"? :)
16:41:51  <KUDr_wrk> yes, but what is wrong and very vrong on our "realistic acceleration" is that the forces become the same slowly before reaching top speed
16:41:57  <Brianetta> Mikachu: That's normally per route, not per loco
16:42:31  <Brianetta> A loco at speed shouldn't be able to provide a lot of force
16:42:34  <CIA-1> glx * r7422 /branches/MiniIN/ (48 files in 3 dirs): [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7378:r7421
16:42:38  <KUDr_wrk> Sacro: yes, they would be supersonic
16:42:55  <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: well maybe we should have track limits, rather than train limits
16:42:55  <Brianetta> We need to record sonic_boom.wav
16:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> ouch ;)
16:43:09  <KUDr_wrk> yes
16:43:20  <KUDr_wrk> would be nice to hear it from train
16:43:24  <Brianetta> track limits would make more sense, as well as making traffic smoother
16:43:31  <KUDr_wrk> and we would need also visual effect
16:43:36  <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: you dont hear it on the train afaik
16:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you do NOT want to go at supersonic speed through a tunnel!!
16:43:39  <Brianetta> Condensation ring?
16:43:49  <KUDr_wrk> no
16:43:57  <KUDr_wrk> the barier spreading
16:43:58  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: wouldnt the train turn inside out?
16:44:07  <KUDr_wrk> like fog vawe
16:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that ;)
16:44:33  <KUDr_wrk> big and growing fog ball
16:44:40  <Brianetta> If you went supersonic in a tunnel, leaving the end of the tunnel would be like hitting a wall
16:44:44  <KUDr_wrk> like FA18 does
16:44:49  <Brianetta> Condensation ring.
16:44:56  <Brianetta> At least, it is once you punch it.
16:44:58  <Brianetta> A ring.
16:45:07  <KUDr_wrk> it is not a ring
16:45:11  <KUDr_wrk> it is ball
16:45:18  <KUDr_wrk> or half of ball
16:45:27  <KUDr_wrk> growing before the plane
16:45:30  <Brianetta> yes
16:45:34  <Brianetta> then once you pass mach 1
16:45:38  <KUDr_wrk> i had a photo somewhere
16:45:38  <Brianetta> you make it a ring
16:45:44  <KUDr_wrk> was very impressive
16:45:44  <Brianetta> by drilling a hole through it, physically
16:46:07  <KUDr_wrk> maybe
16:46:12  <DannyA> OK, here's one for you. For something to completly change direction if has to stop right? You can't just suddenly be going the other way. That must mean that a fly flying towards a train must stop since it changes direction. This only happens after the train hits it, so does that mean the fly stops the train?
16:46:21  <KUDr_wrk> i really dunno how it you call it in english
16:46:32  <Brianetta> DannyA: You don't need to stop. You can make a curve.
16:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> DannyA: movement is relative
16:46:44  <Mikachu> DannyA: the answer is that the train isn't a solid body
16:46:59  <Mikachu> the part of the train that is in contact with the fly stops completely
16:47:13  <DannyA> So you're saying it the fly does stop the train?
16:47:16  <Mikachu> ie the first few layers of atoms or so
16:47:20  <Brianetta> dents it, briefly
16:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a decent number of flys, you can see the effect
16:47:57  <Mikachu> haha
16:48:02  <Sacro> and a messy train
16:48:08  <Mikachu> and a very confused engineer
16:48:12  <DannyA> Sound's like a louie on steroids to me. Don't know if you guys got those louie the fly adds...
16:48:13  <KUDr_wrk> fly will think intensivelly about its ass (as the ass will come into head)
16:48:40  <DannyA> haha, thats good
16:48:50  <KUDr_wrk> no, it is reality
16:49:09  <Mikachu> doesn't that go "what is the last thing that goes through a fly's head when it hits a car window?" "its ass"
16:49:21  <DannyA> So you could say the last thing on it's mind is it's arse...
16:49:34  <Brianetta> Common joke in teh UK.  "What's the last thing that goes through a fly's head when it hits the windscreen?"  "It backside"
16:49:38  <KUDr_wrk> Mikach: yes, my english is not so good
16:49:50  <Mikachu> so now we have 4 candidates :)
16:50:22  <Brianetta> Anyway, in fly vs train, it's a plastic collison
16:50:37  <Brianetta> since the fly is generally spread over the train and becomes part of its mass
16:50:38  <Mikachu> that's what i said, but i used more words :)
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16:50:53  <peter1138> so anyway
16:50:58  <Brianetta> so there's a net reduction in speed
16:51:07  <peter1138> you could say our air drag is too much
16:51:09  <DannyA> fly ass -> mass?
16:51:13  <peter1138> but it is not wrong on principle
16:51:24  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: definitelly
16:51:35  <KUDr_wrk> it is good
16:51:38  <Mikachu> you could have huge fans on the tracks blowing along the direction of movement
16:51:42  <Brianetta> peter1138: The guy who did the physics patch had to provide magic numbers to get it to feel right.
16:51:43  <Mikachu> problem - solution
16:51:44  <peter1138> i'm still not sure what mass * 4 is for
16:51:48  <KUDr_wrk> but too much influence to the train speed
16:51:55  <peter1138> i suspect possible something to do with game units, heh
16:52:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: vehecle scaling, I think
16:52:35  <KUDr_wrk> like scale/ time and so?
16:52:55  <Brianetta> Some physical constants were reviewed (:
16:53:01  <KUDr_wrk> bulgarian constant we call it
16:53:15  <KUDr_wrk> nobody knows why 4 but it works
16:53:53  <peter1138> resistance *= 4; //[N]
16:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "bulgarian constant" ... sounds interesting... where does that come from?
16:53:57  <peter1138> i love that kind of comment
16:54:06  <peter1138> N... but what was it before?
16:54:18  <peter1138> incl += u->u.rail.cached_veh_weight * 60; //3% slope, quite a bit actually
16:54:22  <peter1138> 60 = 3% ?
16:54:25  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi|zuHause: i dunno, simply this is the name here in cz for such constants
16:54:26  <peter1138> who knows...
16:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> such phrases usually have the strangest kind of history ;)
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16:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what is DVBcut trying to tell me with a timecode of "-3:-11:-31.-458"??
17:06:02  <DannyA> KUDr_wrk, I looked in track_dir.hpp it that's the one you ment, but I don't know how I can use it to work out if a tile has touching tracks. I also saw this (KillFirstBit2x64(m_orgTrackdirs) != 0) used, but I think it will tell me parallel horizontal or vertical tracks are an intersection. I also looked in rail.? and it seemed there were functions for everything except whether it's a simple intersection. I'll just use the track bits if that's the case, bu
17:06:03  <DannyA> on somewhere done I may as well use it.
17:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Killfirstbit != 0 means there is more than 1 trackbit set
17:10:19  <DannyA> Yeah, and that may be a paralell track which I need false for.
17:10:35  <DannyA> I think anyway
17:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder filters out trackbits starting from the same entrypoint
17:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so there cannot be parallel tracks left
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17:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> from one entrypoint, you have 3 possible trackbits
17:16:13  <Eddi|zuHause> one left, one right, and one in the middle
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17:18:28  <peter1138> ah, it's a bjarni bug
17:19:09  <Maedhros> wtf?!
17:19:54  <DannyA> What I need is to know is whether any tracks touch, regardless of entry or if they are 90deg. To tell if there is a possibility of oncomming traffic.
17:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Maedhros: it's supposed to be satirical, i believe
17:21:16  *** HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
17:21:43  <Maedhros> is it? that's a minor relief, but it's depressing that it's so plausible...
17:21:58  <Digitalfox> Maedhros: If that actually happens here in Portugal, the law and courts here would just ignore it.. Theres bigger problemas with murders, rapers, thieft's that with that kind of bullshit
17:22:30  <Digitalfox> And the MPAA here in portugal hasn't had any case against piracy
17:22:32  <DannyA> My thoughts exactly Digitalfox.
17:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe in one german country there was issued a directive that filesharing delicts under 100 files should be dropped due to overloaded courts
17:26:28  <Mikachu> great, just zip everything
17:27:21  <KUDr> DannyA: just arrived home, i will look there
17:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> DannyA: i still think it's a completely wrong approach to the problem
17:29:51  <KUDr> DannyA: CFollowTrackT should help you walking
17:30:03  <KUDr> in follow_track.hpp
17:30:19  <KUDr> you can make it able to walk back
17:30:43  <KUDr> adding one bool template argument for direction
17:30:48  * HMage uses CFollowTrackT to go to work
17:31:00  <KUDr> and adding few 'if's
17:31:16  <KUDr> HMage: hehe
17:32:36  <DannyA> OK got it, thanks
17:33:02  <KUDr> DannyA: but i still think you need to 'register' the train to next few signals or junctions so they can negotiate which one will go first
17:33:05  <HMage> by the way, do you know the history why and how "C" in front of class names had appeared? It's because Borland library programmers decided that they wouldn't cripple global namespace, so they added 'C' in front of these classes, thinking that everyone else would use normal names. Irony is that EVERYONE now adds some letter in front of a class name, some people don't even know why, they just saw everyone else doing that.
17:33:07  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
17:33:24  <_42_> Commit by glx :: r7422 /branches/MiniIN/ (48 files in 3 dirs) (2006-12-07 16:42:23 UTC)
17:33:26  <_42_> [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7378:r7421
17:33:37  <HMage> s/EVERYONE/almost EVERYONE/
17:34:18  <KUDr> HMage: it is convention
17:34:27  <KUDr> nothing magical
17:34:40  <HMage> why not use namespaces?
17:34:42  <DannyA> KUDr, I'll look into that after I get this working the slow way I think - just based on distance. Simple as possible to start with... :)
17:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> name conventions are for the humans reading the code, the compiler does not care
17:35:19  <KUDr> right
17:35:37  <HMage> exactly, but I don't like reading random letters in front of variable and class names
17:35:38  <DannyA> I like it - C means it's a class, not a struct or something else I don't know much about.
17:35:52  <KUDr> HMage: namespaces and class naming conventions are two different things
17:36:13  <DannyA> Yeah letters in front of variables is just an indication of a shit editor with bad intellisense
17:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in my early pascal days, data type names started with T, and pointer type names started with P
17:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> it's purely logic that class type names should start with C
17:36:55  <KUDr> HMage: i have few russian friends (developers) and they also don't like any conventions (it must be infection there)
17:37:23  <DannyA> I think the letters in front of varibles is used a lot in VB coz it will quitely take a shot at converting between pretty much all the types.
17:37:33  <HMage> well, I actually DO like conventions, like lowercase_with_underlines for functions, etc
17:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> personally, i like the WordsWithCapitalLetters convention more
17:38:22  <KUDr> but better to use any convention than don't have any
17:38:33  <DannyA> I think it's like food - you like what your used to.
17:38:41  <KUDr> agree with Eddi|zuHause in this
17:38:51  <KUDr> it look better and is shorter
17:39:12  <DannyA> My prefferenece too, but can be anoying with acronyms.
17:39:28  <DannyA> Like ODBC, and stuff
17:40:01  <KUDr> i worked on one project in germany where all function names looked like rmi_s_fd_g()
17:40:19  <KUDr> and no comments, no documentation at all
17:40:25  <KUDr> it was terrible
17:40:26  <HMage> the reason for p_CStuffInfrontAndAfterNamesDD slips away for me. I use WordsWithCapitalLetters for classes. Everything else I do the old C way - variables with no separators between words (helps make good use of them), functions have underscores, abbreviations either not allowed, or only in front of the name, etc.
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17:40:43  <Darkvater> removeindex_source_filedescriptor_global()
17:41:03  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41:35  <DannyA> I don't like how there is a lot of C code with ALL_CAPTIALS.
17:41:42  <KUDr> Darkvater: maybe - you can decrypt it! wow
17:41:56  <HMage> DannyA: was that used only for defines?
17:41:59  <Darkvater> I'm god :)
17:42:00  <Darkvater> eh good
17:42:02  <Darkvater> ;p
17:42:19  * HMage uses greedy regex for replacing 'o' to 'oo' :)
17:42:26  <HMage> gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo(...inf)d
17:43:57  <DannyA> HMage, possibly, and macros. Just my personal preference. I think it's not neccesary with todays editors, since that info is readily available, and it's a pain in the butt to type holding shift down, and it makes the whole thing less readable, and that's it I think,, :)
17:44:23  <Darkvater> caps lock to the rescue!
17:44:55  <HMage> well, probably there were too many defines there
17:44:57  <DannyA> New habit for me perhaps :)
17:45:23  <HMage> I hate this stuff: #define PLUS +;#define MINUS -;#define CONSTANT100INT(name) const int name = 100;
17:46:18  <DannyA> I find the last part so much easier to read.
17:46:39  <HMage> reminds me of a old IBM manual for defines "...defining 3.14159265359 as PI also allows you to change it instantly at all places, should the value of pi change."
17:47:25  <Maedhros> hehe
17:47:46  <HMage> not exactly a quote, I don't remember it so good.
17:48:09  <HMage> so well*
17:48:11  <Maedhros> ...although there was a government somewhere that declared pi was 4 at one point
17:48:21  <HMage> it's in some US state
17:48:24  <Sacro> Maedhros: i think it was caeser
17:48:36  *** LaPingvino [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]]
17:48:51  <peter1138> woo, regulation :D
17:50:15  <HMage> you should modify OTTD source code to be PI=4 compliant
17:50:41  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50:57  <DannyA> May already be - perhaps that explains why the trains grow as the corner.
17:51:02  <Sacro> 1138 is the natural number following 1137 and preceding 1139. It is equal to 1000 + 100 + 30 + 8.
17:51:35  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
17:51:48  <DannyA> well 1:52 is past my bed time. Catch ya later...
17:51:49  <peter1138> so i added a slider to the train window
17:51:57  <peter1138> that regulates power 0 to 100%
17:54:05  <peter1138> mmm, 20,000hp... double AL10
17:55:02  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
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17:55:31  <HMage> peter1138: add a way to 'overclock' power of trains X)
17:55:36  <peter1138> 110% ?
17:55:38  <peter1138> heh
17:56:16  <HMage> by using a better pilot
17:56:21  <HMage> er, train driver
17:56:29  <hylje> pimp my train
17:56:56  *** Guido [] has joined #openttd
17:57:12  <HMage> if you control the train manually, you have the ability to run it faster by 20-25%, but only one train at a time.
17:57:58  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Quit: HMage]
17:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> HMage: in maximum-distance, the area of a circle with radius 1 = 4
18:00:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> (easy to count, you have 4 squares neighbouring one point)
18:01:50  <Sacro> surely the area is pi?
18:02:36  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: area of a circle with radius 1 = pi
18:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> that was certainly my point :p
18:03:36  <peter1138> hehehe
18:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> (but i left it as an excercise for the reader, to figure that out)
18:03:38  <peter1138> manual signals :D
18:03:55  <Sacro> peter1138: ORLY?
18:04:53  *** Guido [] has quit []
18:04:55  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:05:11  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:05:17  <peter1138> boom
18:05:30  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has joined #openttd
18:05:39  <Wolf01> evening
18:06:15  <Sacro> peter1138: do you have a patch for this?
18:12:28  <Wolf01> day-night cycle?
18:15:33  <qfh> does anyone know when maglev comes available in a subtropic game?
18:16:37  <Rubidium> same as in temperate & arctic, assuming you're not using any GRFs that modify vehicle information
18:17:05  <qfh> ok so about 2020
18:17:32  <qfh> i was wondering because it is 2021 and there's no maglev yet
18:17:56  <Wolf01> 2025 if i'm not wrong
18:18:10  <Rubidium> there is some randomicity in the exact introduction dates
18:18:57  <peter1138> hmm
18:19:07  <peter1138> should running cost depend on power output? heh
18:19:18  <DaleStan> The range (in TTD) is specified date through specified date plus 511 days.
18:19:20  <KUDr> would be nice
18:19:56  <qfh> ah ok that's fine
18:21:18  <peter1138> Sacro: not yet
18:21:29  <peter1138> Sacro: i'm wondering if it would be adaptable to manual shunting
18:21:45  <peter1138> i.e. collide very slowly and it attached
18:21:48  <peter1138> *attaches*
18:23:41  <Ailure> hmm
18:23:43  <Ailure> wasn't there a patch
18:23:47  <Ailure> that increased the max number of players?
18:23:58  <CIA-1> maedhros * r7423 /branches/newhouses/ (48 files in 3 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r7378:7422
18:29:41  <mikk36> hey :)
18:29:56  <mikk36> question: which compilers can i use to compile ottd for win ?
18:30:02  <mikk36> in win2003
18:33:21  <Sacro> peter1138: wow... thats on my list of "things to attempt when i get my new pc"
18:33:29  <Sacro> Ailure: yes
18:35:19  <mikk36> well ?
18:35:48  <mikk36> i know i could use visual studio for it.. then mingw.. anything else?
18:36:00  <Sacro> mikk36: sorry, VS200{3,5}, mingw, cygwin
18:36:26  <mikk36> intel smth is not for c ?
18:36:37  <Sacro> yeah theres an intel compiler too
18:36:53  <mikk36> is it supported ?
18:37:10  <CIA-1> miham * r7424 /trunk/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:37:10  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-07 19:36:25
18:37:10  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 1 fixed by groupsky (1)
18:37:10  <CIA-1> catalan - 8 fixed, 1 changed by arnaullv (9)
18:37:10  <CIA-1> croatian - 80 fixed by knovak (80)
18:37:12  <CIA-1> esperanto - 381 fixed by LaPingvino (381)
18:37:12  <CIA-1> finnish - 15 fixed by hapo (8), kerba (7)
18:37:48  <Sacro> ESPERANTO :|
18:37:59  <mikk36> nice amount :D
18:38:12  <Sacro> why are we having a port to a non-existant language
18:38:19  <hylje> it exists
18:38:27  <hylje> and why not since we apparently got volunteers
18:38:29  <Ailure> [19:35] <Sacro> Ailure: yes
18:38:32  <Ailure> What happened to it. D:
18:38:41  <mikk36>
18:38:46  <Sacro> Ailure: dropped behind on updates
18:38:58  <mikk36> Total speakers: 	Native: approx. 1000;
18:38:59  <mikk36> Fluent speakers: est. 100,000 to 2 million
18:39:28  <Ailure> ah damn
18:40:07  <Sacro> esperanto has no w
18:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> how do they phrase questions then?
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18:41:07  <Ailure> We manage that well in Swedish, despite not using W alot :p
18:41:12  <Ailure> W exists, but is hardly used for anything
18:41:13  <Sacro> true....
18:41:27  <peter1138> Sacro: you need a new pc for that? hmm
18:41:35  <Sacro> ?u vi parolas Esperanton?
18:41:43  <Sacro> peter1138: yes, my old laptop only ran linux badly
18:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the same with y in german
18:41:53  <Sacro> and only had a 1024*768 screen
18:41:58  <Ailure> I wonder what kind of changes
18:42:03  <peter1138> so?
18:42:05  <Ailure> taht was done to increase the number of players
18:42:06  <peter1138> it only needs to run ottd
18:42:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is basically only in words of greek inheritance, or in english "backports"
18:42:10  <peter1138> and 1024x768 is plenty for that
18:43:59  <Sacro> peter1138: it ran ottd, but it was useless for developing
18:44:04  <peter1138> ok, who changed english...
18:44:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> making words sound english is so easy, by just sticking an y in them...
18:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> like the word "Handy"
18:44:24  <peter1138> that's handy
18:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> which, in german, refers to a cell phone
18:44:38  <peter1138> but hand is a word too :o
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18:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but "Hand" is also a german word ;)
18:47:30  <peter1138> so?
18:47:30  <mikk36> well ?
18:47:31  <mikk36> (20:35:59) (Sacro) yeah theres an intel compiler too
18:47:31  <mikk36> (20:36:15) (mikk36) is it supported ?
18:47:43  <Sacro> mikk36: i think so...
18:48:05  <Sacro> dunno...
18:48:20  <mikk36> k, then i guess u can't give me support on it :P
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18:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> you might try to put that compiler into Makefile.config
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18:58:28  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7425 /trunk/train_cmd.c:
18:58:28  <CIA-1> -Fix (r1681): With realistic acceleration, guarantee a minimum braking
18:58:28  <CIA-1> force is applied. This ensures trains will stop when going down hill.
19:00:29  <mikk36> it does not matter on which cpu i compile it, right ?
19:01:45  <peter1138> nightly time :D
19:02:34  <Sacro> peter1138: aww... i like trying to stop a heavy train on a big hull
19:02:40  <Sacro> *hill
19:03:15  <peter1138> it still takes a while
19:03:18  <peter1138> but it won't speed up
19:04:34  * peter1138 ponders having full load any off
19:04:56  <peter1138> i'll have it off! hurr hurr
19:05:32  <Sacro> ooh
19:05:56  <Maedhros> i've got that fix for gradual loading and full load any, btw
19:06:07  <peter1138> or!
19:06:15  <peter1138> i could turn off gradual loading
19:06:19  <Maedhros>
19:06:23  <peter1138> or improved loading
19:06:24  <peter1138> hm
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19:06:35  <peter1138> Maedhros: too late for the nightly though :(
19:06:45  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
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19:06:46  <Maedhros> bugger
19:07:29  <peter1138> Sacro: what do you reckon? full load any or improved loading off?
19:07:47  <peter1138> [patches]
19:07:47  <peter1138> build_on_slopes = true
19:07:47  <peter1138> auto_pbs_placement = true
19:07:48  <peter1138> hehe
19:07:51  <peter1138> must be an old config :)
19:08:02  *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
19:08:06  <Sacro> peter1138: what difference would it make?
19:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> why would someone switch build on slopes off?
19:09:50  <peter1138> gradual loading + full load any + improved loading + full load order + multiple cargo types on one train + busy station = train doesn't fully load properly
19:10:02  <peter1138> sounds rare, but they're all on :)
19:10:06  <Sacro> how strange
19:10:15  <peter1138> well, i can switch midgame
19:10:23  <peter1138> so i'll leave it as improved loading off
19:10:28  <peter1138> server's started
19:10:37  <Sacro> ooh nice
19:10:38  <Ailure> hmm
19:10:41  <Sacro> well i need to eat :(
19:10:43  <Ailure> they do fully load propely
19:10:46  <Ailure> it just can take alot of time
19:10:46  <Ailure> :/
19:10:51  <Ailure> at least in my case
19:11:01  <peter1138> Ailure: no, there's a specific bug
19:11:12  <Ailure> or wait
19:11:13  <Ailure> haha
19:11:16  <Ailure> I thought that was a feature myself
19:11:25  <Ailure> yeah I see what the bug is
19:11:33  <Ailure> but I actually thought it was a feature first time I saw it
19:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd rather have full load any off than improved loading off, but since i do not play, my opinion does not matter much ;)
19:12:07  <Ailure> It's that bug that causes trains with severeal cargos
19:12:11  <Ailure> to only load full of one cargo?
19:12:21  <Maedhros> does improved loading actually affect this bug?
19:13:17  <Ailure> I actually thought that bug was benefical for me xD
19:14:08  <peter1138> Ailure: no
19:14:17  <peter1138> Ailure: the bug is when the station has *lots* of cargo waiting
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19:14:24  <peter1138> it won't pick it all up
19:14:28  <peter1138> that's not beneficial
19:14:43  <Ailure> oh
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19:14:50  <Ailure> I seen that bug then
19:14:52  <Ailure> or sort of
19:14:55  <Ailure> becuse it does pick up the cargo
19:14:59  <Ailure> but just takes *alot* of time
19:15:19  <peter1138> I seen ?
19:15:50  <Ailure> D:
19:16:00  <Ailure> pardon my terms
19:16:00  <Ailure> lol
19:16:08  <peter1138> I've seen
19:16:13  <peter1138> or
19:16:14  <peter1138> I saw
19:16:23  <peter1138> </english lesson>
19:16:25  <mikk36> k.. installing vs2005
19:16:57  <Ailure>
19:16:57  <Ailure> hmm
19:17:10  <Ailure> realized
19:17:21  <Ailure> the only ttdpatch features I care about is
19:17:21  <Ailure> # New industries
19:17:21  <Ailure> # New cargo types
19:17:30  <Ailure> D: and thoose are in devolopment even last I heard.
19:17:49  <Ailure> testing the newhouses branch right now too
19:17:59  <Ailure> which works nicely, even if the set have done some funn stuff
19:18:06  <Ailure> forgot the exact name
19:18:14  <Ailure> but ih ave buildings such as a hospital and a stock exhange
19:18:15  <Ailure> xD
19:18:19  <Ailure> it put two of thoose in a town
19:18:21  <Ailure> but nothing else
19:18:25  <Ailure> and there were no other town for miles
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19:28:59  * Maedhros worries for his sanity
19:29:17  <Sacro> !seen bob
19:29:18  <_42_> Sacro, I don't remember seeing bob.
19:29:19  <Sacro> !seen bob*
19:29:20  <_42_> Sacro, I found 2 matches to your query: BobingAbout, Bob_Slob. BobingAbout (BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-224-227.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen parting #openttd 2 minutes ago (07.12. 19:26), after spending 33 minutes there.
19:29:22  <Maedhros> i've got Boten Anna going round and round in my head, despite not being able to speak Swedish
19:29:37  <Sacro> err LadyHawk
19:30:24  <Ailure> well
19:30:26  <Ailure> The Bot Anna
19:30:30  <Ailure> is a IRC bot
19:30:32  <Ailure> apparently
19:30:37  <Ailure> my dad knew about that song
19:30:46  <Ailure> and the only time I heard it, I explained to him what it actually was about
19:30:47  <Ailure> xD
19:30:55  <Ailure> About some bot with the name Anna
19:31:00  <Ailure> who bans people hard from a IRC channel
19:31:02  <Ailure> it's really silly
19:31:15  <tosse> is there a way to remove things build by players not longer in the game?
19:31:16  <Maedhros> yeah, it is ^_^
19:31:17  <Ailure> I guess that's why it's popular here
19:34:42  <mikk36> uhm
19:34:55  <mikk36> for VS2005, i should open openttd_vs80.sln ?
19:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
19:35:28  <mikk36> k
19:35:54  <mikk36> woot, 50% bigger than 2003's solution file :P
19:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> tosse: there is a command to remove a company from the game
19:38:22  <Rubidium> mikk36: VS2005 support x64, VS2003 doesn't...
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19:38:50  <mikk36> luckily i don't need x64
19:40:03  <mikk36> uhm
19:40:07  <mikk36> r7362
19:40:15  <HMage> !openttd help
19:40:16  <mikk36> lithuanian.txt is not there :P
19:40:17  <_42_> HMage: available commands: commit compile date download files grf help log port svn time url user
19:40:22  <HMage> !openttd help commit
19:40:23  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r7425 /trunk/train_cmd.c (2006-12-07 18:58:20 UTC)
19:40:25  <_42_> -Fix (r1681): With realistic acceleration, guarantee a minimum braking
19:40:27  <_42_> force is applied. This ensures trains will stop when going down hill.
19:40:43  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:40:43  <HMage> !openttd commit 7362
19:40:45  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7362 /trunk/fontcache.c (2006-12-04 18:57:09 UTC)
19:40:47  <_42_> -Fix (r7337): Free the freetype face after any possible error. For win32 do not use the
19:40:49  <_42_>  last font in the registry if no suitable font is found.
19:41:27  <mikk36> i don't need it anyway, just that vs bragged about it
19:43:15  <mikk36> brh
19:43:15  <mikk36> Generating czech language file
19:43:15  <mikk36> d:\openttd62\lang\czech.txt(24): FATAL: Invalid case-name 'big'
19:43:15  <mikk36> Project : error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Generating czech language file"
19:43:52  <Maedhros> that was fixed a while ago, wasn't it?
19:44:03  <mikk36> i dunno :P
19:44:15  <Rubidium> yes, but he's using a revision from a little more than 'a while ago'
19:44:23  <mikk36> anyway, where do i get png.h and zlib.h ?
19:44:35  <Rubidium>
19:44:38  <mikk36> k
19:44:39  <Rubidium> @
19:45:53  <mikk36> and where do i put that ?
19:46:11  <HMage> somewhere, then add those directories to your compiling environment
19:46:18  <Rubidium> mikk36: see
19:46:18  <mikk36> hmm, ok
19:47:14  <mikk36> thanks :)
19:47:53  <mikk36> erm
19:47:53  <mikk36> afxres.h
19:47:54  <HMage> (reads url) be wise, don't put those files into your msvc installation dirs.
19:47:59  <mikk36> i don't see that file in the archive
19:48:27  <HMage> should be in platform sdk/include/mfc
19:48:37  <Rubidium> mikk36: it isn't in the archive
19:48:50  <Rubidium> but read the wiki page as it tells you where to get everything you need
19:49:05  <mikk36> ahh right
19:49:06  <mikk36> :P
19:49:20  <mikk36> so i should put them... just somewhere?
19:49:37  <mikk36> and then add them to the environment ?
19:50:23  <Rubidium> no, ... not in a directory that gets automatically cleaned/cleared/emptied and not in the MSVC include/library directories itself, anywhere else should be OK
19:51:24  <HMage> I use /home/msvc?include and /home/msvc/lib
19:51:30  <mikk36> well, i thought about D:\openttd
19:51:37  <HMage> s/\?/\//
19:52:53  <HMage> if you use the afxres.h that's linked in the wiki, you'll have to modify openttd.rc and uncomment the line that references IDC_STATIC
19:54:13  <HMage> but I recommend you to add platformsdk/include/mfc into include directories, MSVC6 does that by default, paid versions of MSVC2005 do that too. That way you'll be able to compile openttd with no modifications just after checkout
19:54:50  <mikk36> ??
19:55:32  <mikk36> any hints on adding the dir's ?
19:55:39  <mikk36> and what i should do ?
19:55:47  <HMage> it's in the wiki, step 5
19:55:56  <peter1138> hmm
19:57:06  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7426 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (87 files in 7 dirs): [MakefileRewrite] -Sync: with trunk r7343:7425.
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20:06:33  <Darkvater> pop
20:07:07  <mikk36> hey
20:07:15  <LadyHawk> sorry bout that seen reply earlyer.. forgot about it.. last time i used to idle here it wasnt very liked either ><
20:07:37  <Darkvater> huh?
20:07:49  <mikk36> what did hmage mean by this ? (21:52:21) (HMage) if you use the afxres.h that's linked in the wiki, you'll have to modify openttd.rc and uncomment the line that references IDC_STATIC
20:07:50  <LadyHawk> if Sacro happens to read it he'll know :p
20:08:25  <glx> mikk36: the afxres.h linked in the wiki is an empty file
20:08:35  <mikk36> empty ?
20:08:46  <mikk36> 3KB and empty?
20:08:54  <mikk36> i don't get it
20:09:02  <Nigel> it wasn't when i linked it, but the old link now works again
20:09:04  * Darkvater goes dualscreen
20:09:07  <mikk36> hmm
20:09:16  <jotham_> Darkvater, LadyHawk did you see what i said about chaining the trains togeather? it works a lot better than just hauling from very satellite raw material station indipendantly
20:09:25  <mikk36> although,3 lines only there
20:09:35  <jotham_> my profits were like 250k on the 2 coal mine route with chaining, and 175k on the direct linking route
20:09:46  <hylje> i'd rather stationwalk
20:09:59  <Darkvater> whohoo, now I can have irssi an dopera on one screen and visualstuido/openttd on the other
20:10:09  <jotham_> station walk is what
20:10:10  <LadyHawk> *scrolls up*
20:10:17  <hylje> Darkvater: i do that with one display using e
20:10:20  <Darkvater> jotham_: :chaning together?
20:10:21  <mikk36> hehe @ Darkvater
20:10:22  <hylje> Darkvater: its quite cool.
20:10:41  <mikk36> hylje, e ?
20:10:43  <Nigel> mikk36,
20:10:52  <hylje> mikk36:
20:11:10  <LadyHawk> now i saw it jotham_ :p
20:11:11  <mikk36> oh.. well.. big difference yeah, Nigel
20:11:22  <Darkvater> hylje: ah... well 2 physical screens work a lot better
20:11:50  <LadyHawk> do you have it like A - B - C, train picking up from A unloading at B, and another train picking up from B going to C?
20:11:53  <mikk36> although, what was hard there to set up 2 screens ?
20:11:57  <jotham_> chaining - for route '[mine a]====[mine b]====[power station]' having train run between mine a and mine b, with force-unload at mine b, then have larger train run between mine b and power station.  the ore from mine b doesn't get financially degraded by station a's wait time by any perceptable amount, if at all, and the plan overall reduces conjestion
20:12:08  <hylje> Darkvater: maybe so, e's workspace stuff is really useful.
20:12:15  <hylje> i havent really used workspaces before e
20:12:16  <LadyHawk> interesting
20:12:19  <LadyHawk> i might have to try that
20:12:20  <hylje> now i routinely use three or more
20:12:46  <LadyHawk> 1 train will never make profit then but if the testing show profit increase that more than makes up for it lol
20:12:50  <jotham_> workspaces are great in xwindows
20:13:01  <jotham_> LadyHawk: adding them up it makes lots more yeah
20:15:04  <Ailure> Anyone wants to take bets when 0.5.0 is released? :P
20:16:16  <jotham_> i want to know more about this siesta track idea
20:16:31  <glx> jotham_: better use "transfer and leave empty" in your example for a->b
20:16:36  <Ailure> siesta track?
20:16:43  <Ailure> trains automatically stops for a few minutes now and then?
20:16:44  <Ailure> :P
20:16:45  <jotham_> glx: rather than unload?
20:16:46  <Ailure> ;P
20:16:49  <mikk36> Ailure, 2007
20:16:52  <mikk36> :P
20:17:03  <LadyHawk> i never really knew what that transfer order did so i never tried using it
20:17:04  <Wolf01> [21:15:36] <Ailure> Anyone wants to take bets when 0.5.0 is released? :P
20:17:04  <Wolf01> 2026
20:17:05  <hylje> hmm
20:17:08  <hylje> i have an evil plan
20:17:16  <Ailure> I would say before Duke nukem forever at least
20:17:16  <hylje> what if you move the stuff from B to A
20:17:17  <Ailure> ;D
20:17:22  <LadyHawk> lmao
20:17:23  <hylje> and have it changed into B's coal
20:17:24  <Ailure> But heh, it dosen't seem to be that much left anymore
20:17:25  <glx> jotham_: does the same as unload but train get profit :)
20:17:27  <hylje> A*'s
20:17:29  <Ailure> what would be the biggest milestone left?
20:17:31  <LadyHawk> deffinately before duke nukem forever XD
20:17:40  <jotham_> glx: well they do in the end anyway...but i'll try it
20:17:49  <LadyHawk> hmm sounds interesting
20:17:51  <LadyHawk> lol
20:18:07  <glx> without transfer train doing a->b won't get any money
20:18:09  <jotham_> that INFRA chick has this thing she calls 'siesta tracks' as far as i can tell from the screenshots they are just extra sidings along parallel to the station, saves making a 5 wide station, just 2 wide with 3 sidings
20:18:11  <Ailure> nice
20:18:15  <Ailure> someone upgraded the roadmap recently
20:18:17  <jotham_> but i'm not sure that's it entirely
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20:19:16  <jotham_> maybe they are just an equal length run of track after the end of the station, but with a semaphore
20:19:19  <jotham_>
20:19:35  <Ailure>
20:19:39  <Ailure> looking at this
20:19:42  <jotham_> she really does a good job with her maps
20:19:59  <Ailure> "Ingame minimap & preview for multiplayer games" seems to be the only thing that hasn't been worked on
20:20:02  <jotham_> cause that's a kickass airport
20:20:08  <Ailure> though I dunno how that minimap is supposed to look like
20:20:19  <hylje> Ailure: minimap is the map thing ingame
20:20:31  <Ailure> well thing is
20:20:32  <Ailure> that minimap
20:20:35  <Ailure> woudl be a bit too big
20:20:35  <hylje> is too hueg
20:20:39  <Ailure> yah
20:20:49  <Ailure> and my keyboard is breaking down xD
20:21:02  <mikk36> Station statistics 	 Celestar 	 In progress 	 Code finished, needs testing <-- not in trunk yet ?
20:21:16  <Ailure> It's been like that
20:21:18  <Ailure> for a really long time now
20:21:47  <Ailure> also adding a minimap
20:21:56  <LadyHawk> btw.. you guys gonna kill me if i ask if PBS is ever coming back?
20:21:58  <Ailure> might force the devoloper to change the UI a bit in multiplayer too
20:22:04  <Ailure> and PBS will be back yes
20:22:08  <Ailure> just not in 0.5.0
20:22:09  <LadyHawk> woot! when :D
20:22:21  <LadyHawk> i'd rather have the PBS the way it was then no PBS at all
20:22:25  <Ailure> 0.6 I belive
20:22:42  <LadyHawk> and i know it was buggy but it was still a lot faster than normal signals
20:23:23  <Ailure> it caused crashes in certain situations
20:23:42  <Ailure> I belive
20:23:46  <Darkvater> if anyone has an idea for the main window to improve the position of the 'quit' button, do say so
20:24:27  <peter1138> it's perfick!
20:24:32  <Ailure> wait
20:24:35  <Darkvater> it looks so weird :)
20:24:36  <CIA-1> glx * r7427 /branches/MiniIN/train_cmd.c: [MiniIN] -Fix r7270: freight multiplier was applied twice
20:24:36  <Ailure> what are you going to change?
20:24:38  <Ailure> that might help
20:24:40  <Ailure> oh
20:24:42  <Ailure> just that?
20:24:58  <LadyHawk> i dunno where it is atm in the released version.. in the nightly it's got a empty hole on the left side
20:25:14  <LadyHawk> i'd prolly say remove it completely and drop a cross at the top right corner instead
20:25:14  <Darkvater> peter1138: what if... we remove the quit button and add an 'X' to the window and let that close the game? Or is that too difficult?
20:25:20  <LadyHawk> lol
20:25:23  <peter1138> that's silly
20:25:29  <Ailure> that wouldn't work well
20:25:31  <Mikachu> i always close with the X button on my window frame
20:25:42  <Ailure> it probably would confuse players
20:25:47  <Darkvater> doesn't work in FS now does it Mikachu ;)
20:25:48  <LadyHawk> why? i've seen multiple games that have just a cross to close it
20:25:49  <Mikachu> it pops up the little dialog inside the game, i was impressed :)
20:25:50  <Ailure> me too Mikachu, but some people play in fullscreen
20:25:51  <peter1138> that doesn't work too well in full screen :)
20:25:52  <Mikachu> no, but FS sucks
20:25:58  <LadyHawk> of course u'd still have the confirmation
20:25:58  <Mikachu> okay i got the point with the fullscreen
20:26:03  <Darkvater> :D
20:26:04  <LadyHawk> hm
20:26:05  <LadyHawk> true
20:26:21  <Ailure> hmm
20:26:29  <Ailure> someone got a screenshot how it looks in the latest nightly?
20:26:44  *** HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
20:26:51  <Ailure> I overwrote the nightly with the newHouse branch nightly XD
20:26:57  <Ailure> and don't want to overwrite it back
20:27:00  <Mikachu> what is the "Play Heightmap" thing?
20:27:13  <Ailure> it loads a heightmap :p
20:27:14  <Ailure> lol
20:27:18  <Mikachu> haha, "oh"
20:27:25  <Ailure> well a heightmap
20:27:30  <Ailure> is usually a greyscale picture
20:27:37  <HMage> load the picture as a height map for the terrain
20:27:45  <Ailure> that is a heightmap
20:27:48  <Ailure> from real life or something
20:27:51  <Mikachu> ah, i see
20:27:52  <LadyHawk> eh very stupid question, how do you get ottd in fullscreen, in the settings it says it *is* fullscreen but still runs windowed
20:27:56  <Ailure> such if you want to play a map of USA
20:27:58  <Ailure> with real heights
20:28:28  <peter1138> i wouldn't go so far as 'real'
20:28:35  <Ailure> well
20:28:36  <Ailure> relative
20:28:37  <Ailure> lol
20:28:41  <LadyHawk> cuz even in fullscreen, the main menu window will still only cover part of the screen so u could still put a cross in one of the top corners
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20:28:58  <HMage> LadyHawk: it should be fullscreen. Try setting to 800x600 in resolution dropdown list, then try switching to fullscreen. Works most of the part.
20:29:03  <mikk36> LadyHawk, did u push the button in options ?
20:29:04  <Ailure> becuse yeah the height system in openTTD have it flaws
20:29:12  <Ailure> slopes can't vary as much as in the real world
20:29:18  <Ailure> and mountains are actually quite low
20:29:45  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29:54  <LadyHawk> aha
20:30:18  <LadyHawk> i dont like how it sets the refresh rate on 60hrz in fullscreen.. owie
20:30:18  <HMage> somehow if you resize the window, the fullscreen button won't work
20:30:35  <Ailure> makes sense kinda though
20:30:39  <Ailure> but there should be a message
20:30:43  <Ailure> that tells you when you do that
20:30:46  <LadyHawk> cuz it tries to fullscreen it with the current 'resolution' which it doesnt understand i'd say
20:30:58  <Ailure> is the current resolution "other"?
20:30:58  <Ailure> :p
20:31:01  <LadyHawk> yea
20:31:04  <Ailure> makes sense heh
20:31:07  <Ailure> but still
20:31:10  <Ailure> it should show an error
20:31:20  <HMage> quit openttd (save the game first), load openttd.cfg in notepad and change "_hz = something" to "_hz = something else" :)
20:31:22  <Ailure> notifying user that you can't choose "other"
20:31:49  <Mikachu> it wouldn't be super hard to save fullscreen res separately from window size
20:31:53  <HMage> well, some "other" resolutions are valid (like I have an available videomode for 1024x576)
20:32:11  <Mikachu> and you can ask both windows and X for available resolutions i believe
20:32:21  <Ailure> heh
20:32:27  <Ailure> I usually siwtch to the same resolution
20:32:28  <HMage> I believe openttd enumerates available video sizes already, and check against that list (and approximate then?)
20:32:30  <Ailure> as desktop
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20:32:33  <Ailure> incase I can't use window mode
20:32:48  <Mikachu> my screen definitely doesn't support 1920x
20:33:11  <Ailure> heh
20:33:18  <Ailure> I belive that's the biggsest shortcoming with LCD's
20:33:27  <Ailure> they look odd in non-native resolutions
20:33:28  <LadyHawk> if i'm forced to reboot cuz of an 'out of range' error, i'll blame the person who told me to touch the .cfg :p
20:34:16  <LadyHawk> ahh much better
20:34:16  <LadyHawk> :D
20:34:32  <Ailure> You have to reboot?
20:34:37  <Ailure> What OS are you using?
20:34:38  <Ailure> :o
20:34:46  <Ailure> I would just alt+tab out of the situation in Windows
20:34:58  <Ailure> or kill the offending application in Linux and BSD's
20:35:39  <LadyHawk> im in winxp just last time i had it when a game tried to standardly run 1280x1024 85hrz which my monitor cant handle, it wouldnt let me alt tab
20:36:35  <mikk36> what about Ctrl+Esc ?
20:36:42  <Ailure> I had out of range
20:36:44  <Ailure> only happen to me
20:36:48  <Ailure> on a really old monitor
20:36:49  <LadyHawk> didnt let me, or maybe it did just monitor didnt come back on
20:36:50  <LadyHawk> dunno
20:36:51  <Ailure> and on older monitors
20:36:56  <Ailure> it just garbles up the display
20:37:01  <Ailure> while making a high pitch sound
20:37:12  <LadyHawk> my monitor is quite old lol
20:37:34  <mikk36> well, mine is older i think :P
20:38:12  <LadyHawk> mine says its some sort of 'NovitA' but it's actually a Hansol 730E
20:38:19  <mikk36> will get 12 years in may :P
20:38:29  <LadyHawk> lol
20:38:30  <LadyHawk> you win
20:38:36  <mikk36> :D
20:38:49  <mikk36> it still rocks though, 1024x768 @ 75Hz
20:38:53  <LadyHawk> mine's like 5-6 years i guess
20:39:08  <mikk36> which is the max it can do :P
20:39:26  <LadyHawk> i can do up to 1024x768 at 85hrz, then highest it can handle is 1280x1024 at 60hrz
20:40:24  <mikk36> why 1280x1024 on a 4:3 monitor ?
20:41:57  <LadyHawk> dont ask me
20:42:01  <LadyHawk> afk gonna find dinner
20:45:43  *** LiLi2506 [~emilie@] has joined #openttd
20:45:58  <LiLi2506> hello
20:47:27  <Ailure> [21:39] <LadyHawk> my monitor is quite old lol
20:47:30  <Ailure> heh
20:47:37  <Ailure> but still somewhat not that old
20:47:45  <Ailure> really old monitors don't tell you if they go out of range
20:47:51  <Ailure> but you still notice when it happens
20:49:53  <LiLi2506> do
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21:21:11  <CIA-1> belugas * r7428 /trunk/station_gui.c:
21:21:11  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Give a more explicit name to the enum STATIONLIST_WIDGET_CARGONONE.
21:21:11  <CIA-1> It is not "No Cargo selected", but rather station with no cargo waiting, thus STATIONLIST_WIDGET_NOCARGOWAITING.
21:21:11  <CIA-1> Hoping it is now clearer for everyone (mainly me...).
21:21:11  <CIA-1> Will fix the behaviour next time.
21:24:19  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
21:26:00  <Darkvater> KUDr: does that yapf.txt still make sense?
21:26:21  <KUDr> must look
21:27:22  <Darkvater> :O wtf?
21:27:36  <Darkvater> << it complains about non-findable newgrf files
21:27:46  <KUDr> aha
21:27:52  <Darkvater> oh wait..probably in openttd.cfg ;p
21:28:10  <KUDr> it is obsolet now
21:28:28  <Darkvater> good, can you remove it? :)
21:28:39  <KUDr> it is explanation for the type settings that was in gui
21:28:47  <KUDr> ok
21:30:24  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7429 /trunk/yapf.txt: -Remove: [YAPF] yapf.txt no longer valid/needed
21:32:26  <CIA-1> glx * r7430 /branches/MiniIN/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7421:r7429
21:32:45  <Darkvater> great, thx
21:33:01  <Darkvater> why are people syncing every second commit?
21:33:46  <Mikachu> maybe they think it was a really good commit :)
21:33:57  <Darkvater> that's bull
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21:36:32  * peter1138 goes to sync the utf8 branch
21:36:40  <glx> lol
21:37:28  <peter1138> hmm
21:37:30  <peter1138> here's a bug
21:37:37  <peter1138> when a company goes bust (or is removed)
21:37:49  <peter1138> custom names aren't removed
21:37:53  <peter1138> well, not a major bug
21:38:02  <peter1138> but means a long game could run out of names
21:40:14  <Darkvater> I hate these stupid users not being able to write proper bugreports. They either write 0.4.8 when it's something totally different or 'latest nightly'
21:40:17  <Darkvater> *sigh*
21:40:48  <hylje> mandatory "POST openttd --version INFO WITH BUG REPORT"
21:40:50  <Mikachu> you could add a version to flyspray called "nighly (specify revision number)"
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21:42:18  <peter1138> hmm
21:44:24  <peter1138> try that :D
21:44:36  <Sacro> hmm... windows needs sshfs
21:44:46  <peter1138> write one
21:44:56  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
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21:45:07  <hylje> oh no you cant
21:45:53  <Sacro> hylje: it'd be nice if openttd -v actually returned JUST the version number
21:46:25  <hylje> oh well
21:46:29  * Sacro go'eth forth to linux
21:46:36  <Sacro> or shall i stay in windows...
21:46:42  <Sacro> hmm... decisions decisions
21:47:02  <hylje> critical feature request: --version to put out relevant info of build
21:48:16  <Rubidium> 'openttd -h' already shows the version (at least on unix builds)
21:48:56  <hylje> yeah, with help text included
21:49:04  <hylje> that's not quite relevant
21:49:28  <Mikachu> isn't it reasonable to assume they're using the daily build of the date of the bugreport?
21:49:53  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
21:49:58  <Darkvater> Mikachu: what if they played with the nightly of the day before and only found the problem today?
21:50:03  <Darkvater> it's not reasonable
21:50:12  <Darkvater> the revision is even there in BIG FKING LETTERS
21:50:49  <Rubidium> Mikachu: for Australians the nightlies are released on another day than for Europeans/Americans
21:52:12  <glx> Mikachu: and many users don't update their nightly every days
21:53:36  <Mikachu> well, then they're lying when they say latest, but i guess that was your point
21:54:23  <glx> anyway "latest" is not a version
22:02:04  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:02:25  <Sacro> Rubidium: -h is help...
22:02:37  <Sacro> -v should just print OpenTTD $version
22:03:27  <Rubidium> -v is already used for the video selection
22:04:14  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:06:26  <Sacro> Rubidium: hmm... that should be -vo
22:07:11  <Rubidium> the current system only 'allows' 1 letter parameters
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22:13:51  <Ailure> boo for hardware failure
22:13:53  <Ailure> jay for autosave
22:14:11  *** MUcht [] has joined #openttd
22:14:31  <Ailure> for not having autosave turned on >_<
22:18:21  <peter1138> heh
22:19:29  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:16  <Ailure> oh well
22:20:19  <Ailure> since it's a scenario
22:20:24  <Ailure> I at least know what routes to start with
22:20:34  <Ailure> probably try to rebuild stuff I did first
22:21:25  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
22:23:08  <Ailure> Technically the scenario is just a randomly created terrain
22:23:12  <Ailure> that I added with very few towns
22:23:19  <Ailure> and only one coal mine and power plant to start off with
22:23:42  <Ailure> then I try to make the towns grow and use any raw material producing industries that pops up
22:24:31  <mikk36> Brianetta ?
22:24:33  <mikk36> u there ?
22:25:32  <Gonozal_VIII> what map size Ailure?
22:25:36  <Ailure> 512x512
22:25:49  <Ailure> one thing I dislike with playing on big maps
22:25:51  <Ailure> with openTTD
22:25:53  <Gonozal_VIII> should be possible
22:25:56  <Ailure> is how openTTD tends to scatter alot of towns
22:26:10  <Ailure> which is why I made it as a scenario
22:26:12  <Ailure> well heh
22:26:18  <Ailure> I was probably playing with huge maps for no reason
22:26:21  <Ailure> when I turned on autosave
22:26:24  <Ailure> and just forgot to turn it back on
22:26:30  <Mikachu> is that with the genesis thing or the old one?
22:26:34  <mikk36> on and on ?
22:26:39  <Gonozal_VIII> i once tried to connect every industry on a 2048^2 map... didn't really work
22:26:49  <mikk36> lol
22:26:55  <Ailure> well heh
22:26:56  <mikk36> what did u come short of ?
22:26:59  * Mikachu is listening to ABBA - On And On And On (0:02 / 3:40)
22:27:05  <Ailure> I already done that now
22:27:10  <Ailure> but then there's only two industries on the whole map
22:27:40  <Gonozal_VIII> 64*64 station size limit of the single unloading station at the factory i carried everything to
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22:31:30  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7431 /trunk/vehicle_gui.c: -Fix (r7418): GUI glitch when viewing other player's vehicle lists: bottom panel continued behind resize button.
22:32:18  <Brianetta> mikk36: yes?
22:32:20  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
22:32:32  <Darkvater> peter1138: :O
22:33:06  <peter1138> i hate pixel-position specified guis :p
22:33:15  <Darkvater> I played around a bit too much with the widget ;o
22:34:01  *** ufoun [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: do you have any fix for 'slow aircraft get stuck on airports'?
22:37:46  <Darkvater> I'm looking at this UpdateAircraftSpeed function and it's a whole lotta fucking magic going on in there
22:38:23  <peter1138> well, i have that rather drastic, not-really-0.5-material units fix...
22:38:36  <peter1138> which helps, iirc
22:38:44  <Darkvater> hmm does that also include normal speeds on airports?
22:38:50  <Darkvater> eg not fluctuating at aroudn 174km/h?
22:38:51  <peter1138> yes
22:39:04  <Darkvater> it legible?
22:39:22  <peter1138> well
22:39:59  <peter1138> i was thinking of bjarnizing it
22:40:08  <Darkvater> heh
22:40:10  <peter1138> but i just can't come up with enough commas
22:40:18  <Darkvater> can I have a look before zhe bjarni?
22:40:19  <peter1138> or parenthesis
22:40:36  <Darkvater> you need lots of typos, big functions with lots of parameters
22:40:50  <Darkvater> and let's not least 1 usage of quadruple-pointers
22:40:54  <peter1138> lol
22:41:05  <Darkvater> plus the healthy dosis of bugs of course ;p
22:41:06  * peter1138 hides behind his linked-lists
22:42:14  <peter1138>
22:42:22  <peter1138> also incorporates a plane speed switch
22:42:31  <peter1138> only thing that isn't right: deceleration on landing
22:42:40  <peter1138> in fact it's pretty fucked
22:42:52  <peter1138> just needs some numbers tweaking, i'm sure :)
22:43:32  <peter1138> oh, and it's not tidied up
22:43:47  * Darkvater is more worried about the serious lack of comments
22:43:52  <peter1138> comments?
22:44:02  <peter1138> well
22:44:07  <Darkvater> in UpdateAircraftSpeed
22:44:13  <peter1138> yeah
22:44:20  <peter1138> it's modelled on the train version ;)
22:45:17  <Darkvater> ok that patch is not really more legible than the original code ;p
22:45:35  <peter1138> ah, well, i didn't say it was :P
22:46:08  <peter1138> when i have some more time i'll document it
22:46:10  <peter1138> but for now
22:46:12  <peter1138> night night
22:46:16  <Darkvater> gn :)
22:47:20  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
22:47:46  <Darkvater> Query {INSERT INTO flyspray.list_version (project_id, version_name, list_position, show_in_list, version_tense) VALUES (?, ?, ?, ?, ?)} with params {, 0.5.1, 3, 1, 3} Failed! (ERROR: invalid input syntax for integer: "")
22:47:50  <Darkvater> o_O
22:47:54  <Darkvater> flyspray is so fucking buggy
22:49:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Darkvater> if anyone has an idea for the main window to improve the position of the 'quit' button, do say so <- i said it a while ago, give it a distinct colour (red) and maybe make it centered
22:50:07  <Darkvater> hmm WIP? ;0
22:50:08  <Darkvater> ;)
22:57:15  <mikk36> hey, Brianetta
22:57:26  <mikk36> still there ?
22:58:10  <mikk36> messing with your autopilot...
22:59:21  <mikk36> 1st thing: it couldn't find coopsetup table from mysql database ????
22:59:40  <mikk36> second, when i disable mysql, it just launches gray tcl window
22:59:46  <mikk36> and openttd seems to get started
22:59:51  <mikk36> but nothing else
23:00:20  *** io]nowhere [] has joined #openttd
23:00:23  <io]nowhere> hi
23:00:50  <mikk36> any ideas, Brianetta ?
23:00:56  <io]nowhere> I started a server, but a few days ago when someone tried to join it said: "1 client in front of you"
23:01:14  <io]nowhere> And now it happens again, there are no other clients connecting, any idea for a cause/fix?
23:03:50  <mikk36> pls respond, Brianetta
23:04:04  <io]nowhere> sup mikk36?
23:04:20  <mikk36> autopilot
23:04:38  <io]nowhere> autopilot?
23:04:46  <mikk36> :P
23:05:07  <mikk36>
23:05:07  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:23  <glx> mikk36: windows or linux?
23:05:33  <mikk36> win
23:05:42  <mikk36> 2003
23:05:45  <mikk36> latest activetcl
23:05:49  <glx> you ran covert.exe ?
23:05:59  <glx> *convert.exe
23:06:03  <mikk36> yes, if i run it again, it says it's not console app
23:06:23  <mikk36> so that doesn't seem to be the problem
23:06:28  <glx> ok so you need to run tclsh autopilot.tcl
23:06:49  <mikk36> well
23:06:56  <mikk36> just autopilot.tcl is not enough ?
23:07:05  <mikk36> oh
23:07:06  <glx> no it uses the wrong app :)
23:07:06  <mikk36> i get it
23:07:10  <mikk36> tcl-shell
23:07:42  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:08:27  <glx> by default .tcl are launch using wish after activetcl install
23:08:51  <io]nowhere> anyone that can help me?
23:09:27  <glx> io]nowhere: did you set a client limit µ?
23:09:35  <glx> -µ
23:09:53  <io]nowhere> ill update my config
23:10:34  <io]nowhere> upload
23:10:37  <io]nowhere> err, what is the name for max comp?
23:11:00  <glx> default values :
23:11:00  <glx>  max_companies = 8
23:11:00  <glx> max_clients = 10
23:11:00  <glx> max_spectators = 10
23:11:23  <io]nowhere> no there is no max_clients
23:11:46  <mikk36> k, works now, glx, thanks :)
23:12:02  <mikk36> another question, how do i enter now the load command ?
23:12:03  <io]nowhere> should they be set in order for the server to work properly?
23:12:05  <mikk36> just as usual
23:12:05  <mikk36> ?
23:13:10  <glx> yes autopilot console just pass commands to openttd console (unless it is an autopilot command)
23:13:43  <Brianetta> mikk36: There's an SQL file that came with it
23:13:49  <mikk36> i did that
23:13:54  <Brianetta> and...
23:14:04  <Brianetta> what tables are in your database?
23:14:09  <mikk36> and i have 5 tables now
23:14:21  <mikk36> chatlog, game, server, setup and user
23:14:28  <Brianetta> OK
23:14:37  <Ailure> woot
23:14:40  <Brianetta> you can't use the prefix coop inless you actually names the tanls that
23:14:41  <Ailure> got most of my stuff rebuilt now
23:14:48  <mikk36> oh
23:14:52  <mikk36> heh
23:15:08  <Brianetta> So either rename the tables, or remove the prefix
23:15:14  <Brianetta> There was a dodgy shell script int there
23:15:26  <Brianetta> that re-did the sql file so that it had a rpefix
23:15:37  <io]nowhere> glx: thanks, it seems to work properly again for now :)
23:15:51  <mikk36> another thing
23:16:01  <mikk36> it did not accept my default password
23:16:18  <mikk36> when i tried to connect to server
23:18:00  <mikk36> trying agin
23:18:04  <mikk36> enabled irc and mysql
23:18:14  <io]nowhere> glx: It started again :<
23:18:22  <Brianetta> it uses the password set in openttd.cfg
23:18:30  <Brianetta> unless you put the password auto-changer on
23:18:57  <mikk36> thought so
23:19:08  <mikk36> what is the format of irc channel ?
23:19:14  <Brianetta> #channel
23:19:14  <glx> io]nowhere: can I try to connect ?
23:19:17  <mikk36> hmm
23:19:22  <Brianetta> or !channel
23:19:28  <Brianetta> if you'r eon that sort of network
23:19:36  <mikk36> well, i'm on usual network
23:19:39  <mikk36> but it doesn't join
23:20:10  <Brianetta> Is it on the network?
23:20:20  <mikk36> says so
23:20:20  <Brianetta> as in, can you /whois it?
23:20:24  <mikk36> sec
23:24:34  <Brianetta> no joy?
23:25:00  <mikk36> erm
23:25:01  <mikk36> no irc
23:25:02  <mikk36> also
23:25:12  <mikk36> as soon as i connect and create a new company
23:25:14  <mikk36> it restarts
23:25:28  <Brianetta> restarts the game?
23:25:37  <mikk36> openttd
23:25:51  <mikk36> closes down entirely
23:25:53  <Brianetta> autopilot doesn't restart openttd
23:26:01  <Brianetta> it just exits if the server dies
23:26:04  <mikk36> autopilot itself closes too
23:26:09  <mikk36> at least the window
23:26:12  <Brianetta> Does it give an error?
23:26:14  <mikk36> no
23:26:19  <mikk36> at least none i can see
23:26:27  <Brianetta> Sounds like the server is dying
23:26:40  <Brianetta> Which IRC network are you connecting it to?
23:26:44  <Brianetta> Quakenet is problematic
23:26:45  <mikk36>
23:26:58  <mikk36> tried here too, but firewall warned me about portscan :P
23:27:14  <glx> does it works without irc ?
23:27:15  <mikk36> so i guess it blocked this on
23:27:19  <mikk36> let's see
23:27:45  <mikk36> hmm, it repeated now that it's connected to irc network
23:27:57  <Brianetta> What's the nick?
23:28:49  <mikk36> mikk36test
23:28:56  <mikk36> i disabled irc part now
23:29:08  <Brianetta> It's not on the network
23:29:17  <mikk36> k, server kept running now
23:29:22  <mikk36> so irc is problematic
23:29:25  <mikk36> err
23:29:26  <mikk36> cras :D
23:29:28  <mikk36> +h
23:29:30  <Brianetta> IRC shouldn't matter
23:29:51  <mikk36> although it was online for a few seconds even
23:30:03  <Brianetta> Which version of OpenTTD is it?>
23:30:13  <mikk36> same as coop
23:30:26  <mikk36> r7362
23:30:28  <Brianetta> well, that's known to work
23:30:32  <mikk36> exactly
23:30:45  <mikk36> i took that version because u use it for coop
23:31:08  <mikk36> hmm
23:31:12  <mikk36> a small check
23:31:42  <mikk36> does it support this kind of characters ? õ
23:31:50  <Brianetta> Yes
23:31:52  <mikk36> hmm
23:32:45  <Brianetta> What's your OS?
23:32:49  <mikk36> win2003
23:32:53  <Brianetta> Ah
23:33:00  <Brianetta> Did you modify your OpenTTD?
23:33:15  <mikk36> hehe
23:33:22  <mikk36> it does NOT support that character :D
23:33:33  <Brianetta> Doesn't it?
23:33:36  <mikk36> nope
23:33:36  <Ailure> hmm
23:33:37  <Brianetta> What Tcl are you using?
23:33:38  <Ailure> the query tool
23:33:44  <mikk36> latest active
23:33:44  <Ailure> really needs to show the height
23:33:51  <io]nowhere> those servers that automatically reset game after a certain year, is it a config setting? Or do they use cron or something?
23:33:59  <mikk36> removed that char from motd and it keeps running nicely
23:34:01  <Brianetta> io]nowhere: Config
23:34:15  <Brianetta> weird
23:34:27  <mikk36> io]nowhere, search for keyword 'restart' in config
23:34:31  <Brianetta> Try to get it onto IRC (:
23:34:38  <mikk36> k
23:34:39  <Wolf01> 'night
23:34:42  <Brianetta> restart_date IIRC
23:34:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
23:35:11  <io]nowhere> thanks
23:35:41  <mikk36> should be up
23:35:56  <Brianetta> Can't see it
23:35:57  <io]nowhere> it's: restart_game_date
23:35:58  <mikk36> err
23:36:02  <mikk36> crashed
23:36:14  <mikk36> as soon as it sent me the welcome msg
23:36:43  <mikk36> hmm
23:36:50  <mikk36> it displays an error in console
23:36:51  <Brianetta> I didn't think that character should have crashed it
23:36:53  <mikk36> but it's too fast
23:36:56  <mikk36> i'll send it to txt
23:37:05  <Brianetta> just run it from a command window
23:37:12  <mikk36> hmm, point
23:37:13  <mikk36> :P
23:37:37  <glx> just the cmd has a weird codepage :)
23:38:03  <Brianetta> glx: You might be able to lend a hand here
23:40:21  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: bin wech....]
23:40:47  <mikk36>
23:41:17  <mikk36> using mysql
23:41:21  <mikk36> mysql5*
23:41:52  <Brianetta> That SQL looks fine
23:42:17  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:42:20  <mikk36> well, it might look fine... but it still gives me error :P
23:42:25  <mikk36> sec
23:42:28  <mikk36> i'll check the log
23:42:31  <mikk36> what it tried to send
23:42:33  <Brianetta> can you edit the mysql file
23:42:56  <Brianetta> and after  the third line of the db_log_internal function
23:43:03  <Brianetta> stick in this line:
23:43:09  <Brianetta> puts $sql
23:43:22  <Brianetta> that'll print out the sql query in full
23:43:26  <Brianetta> then paste that here
23:43:45  <Brianetta> actually, put it in front of line 3 (:
23:43:51  <Brianetta> otherwise it won't get run (L
23:44:16  <Brianetta> I suspect that there's something wrong with the names of your tables, or the prefix variable
23:45:17  <mikk36> k
23:45:32  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
23:46:16  <mikk36> erm
23:46:20  <mikk36> 3rd line in what file ?
23:46:29  <Brianetta> not in a file
23:46:39  <Brianetta> go into the file autopilot_mysql.tcl
23:46:46  <mikk36> that is a file, isn't it ?
23:46:50  <Brianetta> look for the db_log_internet proc
23:47:05  <Brianetta> Put it in as the third line in that procedure
23:47:19  <mikk36> internal ?
23:47:23  <Brianetta> yes
23:47:24  <Brianetta> sorry (:
23:47:28  <Brianetta> typotastic
23:47:39  <io]nowhere> oh no the 1 client in front of you bug again :<
23:48:26  <glx> io]nowhere: can I try to connect to see what happens?
23:48:49  <mikk36> can't read "sql": no such variable
23:48:51  <mikk36> :P
23:49:05  <io]nowhere> sure, please..
23:49:14  <glx> which version ?
23:49:18  <io]nowhere> 0.4.8
23:49:20  <glx> any grfs?
23:49:23  <io]nowhere> no
23:49:24  <Brianetta> You put it just before the line mysqlexec $::autopilot_db $sql ?
23:49:46  <mikk36> oh right
23:49:46  <mikk36> sry
23:49:47  <mikk36> :P
23:49:52  <Brianetta> np
23:50:25  <mikk36> me dumb didn't check that $sql was set just one line after what i pasted there:P
23:50:56  <mikk36> INSERT INTO `chatlog` SET `game`=, `log`='Mikk36 has joined the game'
23:51:03  <mikk36> what's that , ?
23:51:05  <Brianetta> game
23:51:10  <glx> io]nowhere: 2 clients before :)
23:51:14  <Brianetta> that's your problem
23:51:23  <mikk36> why is there then ?
23:51:33  <io]nowhere> glx: I suspect it will be an endless wait
23:51:34  <Brianetta> Check the contents of you settings table
23:51:43  <Brianetta> current game should not be '
23:51:50  <Brianetta> or , even
23:52:16  <Brianetta> but it should be a number
23:52:34  <mikk36>
23:52:36  <Brianetta> you know, you're the first person but me to use the MySQL module
23:52:41  <Brianetta> I know what the problem is
23:52:50  <mikk36> hehe
23:53:00  <mikk36> well, if possible, i'll use maximum :)
23:53:09  <mikk36> max of what the prog can offer
23:53:10  <Brianetta> You haev game_server set to 1
23:53:14  *** JazzyJaffa [] has joined #openttd
23:53:14  <mikk36> yeah ?
23:53:23  <mikk36> and ?
23:53:23  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:53:23  <Brianetta> and you need to specify what server 1 is in the database
23:53:31  <mikk36> ermh
23:53:32  <io]nowhere> glx what is your ip?
23:53:35  <Brianetta> give me a sec
23:53:48  <mikk36> it's not written in the manual .P
23:53:50  <mikk36> :P
23:53:58  <Brianetta> Of course not
23:54:13  <Brianetta> OK, add a server to the server table
23:54:18  <Brianetta> with number 1 and a name
23:54:20  <glx> io]nowhere:
23:54:38  <mikk36> erm
23:54:41  <mikk36> i have one there
23:54:49  <mikk36> table: server
23:54:49  <Brianetta> now
23:54:52  <mikk36> id: 1
23:54:58  <io]nowhere> dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from
23:54:58  <io]nowhere> dbg: [NET] Client connected from on frame 72422
23:54:58  <io]nowhere> dbg: [NET] Closed client connection
23:54:59  <Brianetta> you need to create a game int he game table
23:55:04  <mikk36> name: Mikk36's Nightly coop
23:55:12  <mikk36> oh
23:55:12  <io]nowhere> it seems to close the connecting right away?
23:55:14  <Brianetta> with server 1 and a name
23:55:22  <glx> io]nowhere: no I closed it :)
23:55:50  <io]nowhere> strange right?
23:55:55  <Brianetta> then finally, create a row in settings
23:55:59  <mikk36> problem
23:56:08  <mikk36> how do i enter name to type:int ?
23:56:11  <Brianetta> with setting = current_game and value = 1 and server = 1
23:56:22  <Brianetta> You don't
23:56:30  <mikk36> what is that column then ?
23:56:35  <Brianetta> which one?
23:56:37  <mikk36> name
23:56:39  <mikk36> in game
23:56:44  <Brianetta> wrongly typed
23:56:52  <Brianetta> the latest svn has that fixed
23:56:55  <mikk36> brh
23:56:57  <Brianetta> sorry, forgot about that ine
23:57:04  <mikk36> what should be there then ?
23:57:04  <glx> io]nowhere: yes very strange :)
23:57:10  <Brianetta> varchar 100 would do
23:57:12  <mikk36> k
23:57:49  <mikk36> now, what was next ?
23:57:53  <mikk36> after game table
23:57:53  <io]nowhere> glx: it seems like it shows up a few minutes after the server started
23:57:57  <Brianetta> setting
23:58:02  <Brianetta> then finally, create a row in settings
23:58:04  <Brianetta> with setting = current_game and value = 1 and server = 1
23:58:08  <mikk36> setup or setting ?
23:58:12  <mikk36> which table ?
23:58:13  <Brianetta> assuming your game is number 1
23:58:23  * Brianetta looks
23:58:27  <Brianetta> setup
23:58:30  <mikk36> :P
23:58:44  <Brianetta> I tell you, you want the latest SVN o fautopilot
23:58:59  <mikk36> why aint it creating itself there ?
23:59:05  <Brianetta> it automatically creates a new game if you start the server without a load parameter
23:59:26  <mikk36> could u zip me latest ?
23:59:33  <Brianetta> Do you haev svn?
23:59:37  <mikk36> not atm
23:59:42  <Brianetta> hmm, you need svn + ssh
23:59:58  * Brianetta rummages

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