Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:56 <Darkvater> hmm does a makefile support syntax like 00:02:11 <Darkvater> ifdef A || b 00:02:12 <Darkvater> ? 00:05:23 <Darkvater> hmm guess not 00:06:14 <CasB> Yes you can, i think 00:06:22 <CasB> Did a quick google: http://makepp.sourceforge.net/1.18/syntax_makefile.html#conditionals 00:06:52 <Darkvater> don't see it 00:06:54 <CasB> hmmz, that's makepp, not what you're looking for I guess 00:09:13 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:10:33 *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176125175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 00:11:32 <Darkvater> hmm so what's the syntax for 00:11:33 <Darkvater> if a 00:11:35 <Darkvater> else if b 00:11:41 <Darkvater> else c 00:11:41 <Darkvater> endif 00:11:57 <glx> win32.c: In function `OTTDSHGetFolderPath': 00:12:00 <glx> win32.c:1113: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules 00:12:37 <Darkvater> well that's his problem, can't do anything aout that 00:16:35 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176112020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:20:36 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7461 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: [FS#262] Add support for building with GCC on OS/2 (psmedley) 00:21:38 <Darkvater> gn all :) 00:21:42 <CasB> nn 00:21:50 <CasB> truste :P 00:24:15 *** DoZzzZzzy [~dos@cwoerlee.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 00:25:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FC8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:40 <DoZzzZzzy> lol i found a bug :D:D 00:25:59 <glx> what is it? 00:27:05 <DoZzzZzzy> wenn the train driver under sea level , and its in the middle , then put water on it , and the server crashes 00:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> that sentence did not parse 00:28:51 <DoZzzZzzy> well u make a track under sea level 00:29:03 <DoZzzZzzy> wenn the train passes , u put water on the side of it 00:29:30 <glx> oh I see :) 00:29:37 <glx> yapf doesn't like that 00:31:29 <DoZzzZzzy> strange =D 00:34:14 <Sacro_> Darkvater: ifdef a, elsedef ifdef b endif (b) endif 00:34:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> possibly a missed yapf cache update? 00:37:09 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-167-179.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:39:53 <glx> hmm it may have been fixed :) 00:40:09 <glx> DoZzzZzzy: what version are you using ? 00:40:16 <DoZzzZzzy> 4.8 00:41:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-141-225-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:47 *** silent_ [~pwr@86.121.147.79] has joined #openttd 00:44:06 *** silent [~pwr@86.121.148.71] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:46:37 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76D41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:49:12 *** BJH2_ [~chatzilla@e176125175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 00:49:12 *** CasB [~casb@ip145-160-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:14 <CIA-1> glx * r7462 /trunk/newgrf.c: -Fix: when doing comparison in action 7/9, mask the param value so it has the 'same' size as the value it is compared to 00:49:22 *** Oscar [~casb@ip145-160-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 00:51:57 *** Oscar is now known as CasB 00:52:11 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:06 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77B5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:56:36 *** silent_ [~pwr@86.121.147.79] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 00:58:19 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74.140.121.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:59 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:01:07 <CasB> nn all 01:01:12 *** CasB is now known as CasB|z 01:10:10 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74.140.121.53] has joined #openttd 01:14:22 *** robobed^ [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:22:00 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:38:42 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 01:42:30 *** PandaMojo_ [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 01:42:49 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-167-179.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:47:28 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:47:43 *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo 01:50:42 *** DoZzzZzzy [~dos@cwoerlee.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: bye :)] 01:55:27 *** roboboy [~leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:58:53 *** roboboy [~leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 01:58:54 *** robobed^ [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:06 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:26 <Belugas_Gone> Dalestan, ping 02:11:39 <Belugas_Gone> ... hoping you are around like now... 02:11:53 <DaleStan> Belugas_Gone: pong 02:17:29 <Belugas_Gone> hello 02:18:15 <Belugas_Gone> can you please tell me exactly what line 3118 in ttrs3 actually means? 02:18:46 <Belugas_Gone> what is this var 81 it seems to be referring? 02:19:19 <Belugas_Gone> sorry for the dealy onmy part, i was reading patch wiki ;) 02:21:24 <DaleStan> This is not documented, but the 00..3F range of action 2 variables correspond exactly to the 80..BF range of Action 7/9/D parameters. 02:22:47 <Belugas_Gone> you mean we can use eaxtly the same values, it would be fine? nice... 02:23:02 <Belugas_Gone> thanks a lot:) 02:23:05 <DaleStan> So, that checks something that is probably the current year at the time of activation; I don't know enough to know when those values are guaranteed to be valid. 02:23:53 <Belugas_Gone> they are related to the two roadsets introduced 02:24:25 <DaleStan> Ah. Then I'd guess it's an attempt to do variational roads. 02:24:45 <Belugas_Gone> attempt... i like the word :) 02:25:21 <DaleStan> It won't work perfectly, obviously, but it's better than anything else currently possible. 02:25:35 <Belugas_Gone> as well as debugging a branch on a grf that seems to be not so perfect itself ;) 02:25:42 <Belugas_Gone> true DaleStan. 02:25:50 <Belugas_Gone> we just have to adapt to that 02:26:16 <Belugas_Gone> i thank you very much. once again, very helpfull :) 02:26:21 <Belugas_Gone> good night sir 02:33:58 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 02:36:22 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 02:42:41 *** robobed^ [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:42:47 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:40 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 03:03:37 *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-83-100-186-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:42 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:17:59 *** robobed^ [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:19 *** lolman [~admin@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 03:42:39 *** mikk36[EST] [~mikk35@pc81.host1.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 03:43:23 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:43:31 *** lolman [~admin@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 03:44:14 *** mikk36 [~mikk35@pc63.host1.starman.ee] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mikk36[EST]))] 03:44:16 *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36 03:46:59 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^2] 03:56:57 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 03:57:59 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:02:49 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 04:09:19 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:09:34 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 04:11:06 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 04:11:51 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:18:15 *** Danny3848 [~Danny.Ale@CPE-138-217-252-154.wa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:18:16 *** DannyA [~Danny.Ale@CPE-138-217-252-154.wa.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:02 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:31:31 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N920P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:32:07 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N708P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 04:44:09 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:02 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 05:27:36 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:27:39 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 05:34:58 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:41:35 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 05:48:14 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:48:46 *** Tefad [~tefad@va-chrvlle-cad1-bdgrp1-4b-b-116.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:10:00 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:41 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-207-154-20.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:17:04 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 06:17:39 *** Nigel_ [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:39:40 *** Tefad_ [~tefad@c-71-63-10-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:46:31 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-207-154-20.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:49:17 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-167-179.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:51:32 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:55:44 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 07:43:51 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:03:49 *** GhostBear [~GhostBear@87.103.220.29] has joined #openttd 08:03:56 <GhostBear> Hello guys! 08:03:59 <GhostBear> I'm new! 08:04:52 <GhostBear> May I ask you about game? 08:04:59 <GhostBear> you -> someone 08:05:17 *** tormentum [~adam@dsl-202-72-142-139.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:05:26 <GhostBear> -.- 08:05:30 <GhostBear> I think no... 08:06:22 <GhostBear> Oh! Why everybody dead? 08:07:50 <ThePizzaKing> I'm afraid so 08:08:02 <GhostBear> ThePizzaKing, hello! 08:08:09 <ThePizzaKing> hello 08:08:12 <tormentum> mm it's true... ottd kills 08:08:25 <ThePizzaKing> hehehe 08:08:38 <ThePizzaKing> What did you want to know? 08:08:46 <ThePizzaKing> I *might* be able to help 08:09:48 <GhostBear> Sorry, but i'm n00bie :P 08:09:59 <GhostBear> How can i help translate game? 08:10:02 <GhostBear> (Russia) 08:11:05 <GhostBear> -.- 08:11:10 <GhostBear> Thanks... 08:11:21 <tormentum> hrm 08:11:26 <tormentum> i think there is some info in the wiki about it 08:11:31 <tormentum> i'll see if i can find it 08:12:15 <ThePizzaKing> This page seems to give some information: http://translator2.openttd.org/ 08:12:17 <GhostBear> THere wrote to ask development team 08:12:43 <tormentum> most the core developers seem to be offline at the moment GhostBear 08:13:53 *** Wolfenstiejn [~wolf@h33083.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:13:53 *** Wolfy [~wolf@h33083.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:35 <GhostBear> too bad... 08:14:52 <GhostBear> Is someone else tried to translate game into Russian? oO 08:15:10 *** Osai [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:37 <tormentum> GhostBear: http://translator2.openttd.org/languages/GlobalStat 08:17:02 <GhostBear> Hm... 89% completed... good... 08:17:12 <GhostBear> So i think my help isn't necessary 08:27:28 *** Tefad_ is now known as Tefad 08:32:56 <GhostBear> shit 08:32:58 *** GhostBear [~GhostBear@87.103.220.29] has quit [Quit: ...:::Clonk for ever:::... Cult of clonk -.-] 08:41:09 *** Sionide [~sphinx@cpc4-norw5-0-0-cust184.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: /quit] 08:47:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:47:49 <Wolf01> morning 08:52:43 *** tormentum [~adam@dsl-202-72-142-139.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:03:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E242.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:15:28 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCC8.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 10:06:55 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 10:13:25 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7463 /trunk/settings.c: -Codechange: Don't load invalid NewGRF files from the configuration file; instead show a warning. 10:22:23 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498D3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:34 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498ECE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:26:05 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #openttd [] 10:36:19 <Wolf01> doh, i autoreplaced all trains instead one line only 10:36:30 <Wolf01> now i must convert all to elrails 10:36:35 <peter1138> hehe 10:37:22 <Wolf01> why not an "autoreplace all trains with this schedule"? 10:37:48 <peter1138> because autoreplace would need to be heavily modified 10:38:05 <peter1138> and the gui would become... hmm 10:38:58 <Wolf01> we may re-use the refit order 10:39:52 <Wolf01> and maybe use "null" to say that a vehicle shouldn't autoreplace instead of loop in the same vehicle 10:41:35 <Wolf01> and why not merge my "more transparency options" in trunk? is so usefull 10:42:36 <Wolf01> stupid buildings, i can't see my custom station in the middle of the city 10:42:42 <peter1138> hehe 10:47:12 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:47:15 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 10:49:41 *** orudge` [~orudge@138.251.254.190] has joined #openttd 10:50:58 *** orudge [~orudge@138.251.254.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:22 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84137.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:55:55 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:02:15 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 11:03:26 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 11:06:46 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:38 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 11:07:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 11:09:56 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:30 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7402.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:28 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:21:29 <Darkvater> morning 11:22:00 <Rubidium> morning Darkvater 11:22:32 <Rubidium> have played a little with the svn & MSVC problem and came up with: http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/svn_and_MSVC.diff 11:23:15 <Rubidium> don't know how well it will work on all kinds of computers and especially whether it will work for computers without windows scripting support. 11:23:29 <Rubidium> (the diff is against MakefileRewrite by the way) 11:24:00 <Darkvater> Rubidium: I've asked it as well in #svn they say it's not possible to do it with keywords; so then I gave up 11:24:05 <Darkvater> but let's see what you came up with 11:24:58 <Darkvater> ugh vbs eh 11:25:00 <Darkvater> been there 11:25:21 <peter1138> Couldn't find NewGRF 00000000 (openttd.grf) checksum 00000000000000 11:25:22 <peter1138> hehe 11:25:24 <Rubidium> it only finds the proper version if you've got the svn command line tools installed; otherwise it will just use 'norev000' 11:25:39 <Darkvater> that's pretty useless 11:25:51 <Darkvater> about 90% don't have the command line tools but tortoise 11:26:37 <Rubidium> true... 11:27:05 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCC8.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 11:27:12 <Rubidium> maybe we can make an executable that uses the svn libraries that tortoise must use as well as the command line tools 11:28:07 <Darkvater> Rubidium: this is what I had 11:28:08 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/rev.vbs 11:28:10 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/rev.bat 11:29:28 <Rubidium> that doesn't handle branches 11:29:43 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 11:29:43 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7464 /trunk/ (newgrf_config.c newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.c): 11:29:43 <CIA-1> -Codechange: move BuildParamList from newgrf_gui to newgrf_config and 11:29:43 <CIA-1> prefix with GRF. 11:29:56 <Darkvater> Rubidium: tortoisesvn has a SubWCRev.exe command line tool that is supposed to work 11:30:03 <peter1138> something ought to tell my svn client that it's committed... 11:30:10 <peter1138> stuck on Transmitting :/ 11:30:14 *** znikoz [1@228-18-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 11:30:28 * Rubidium starts VMWare 11:30:32 <Darkvater> but don't think this is worth the trouble, I'll just remove the $Id$ from openttd.rc and we're done 11:33:13 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7465 /trunk/settings.c: -Codechange: Save the default GRF configuration. 11:36:37 <peter1138> no config editing for default grfs neede 11:36:39 <peter1138> +d 11:37:41 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7466 /trunk/win32.c: -Cleanup: [win32] Coding style, indentation, variable localization. 11:38:06 <Darkvater> hmm my client hangs as well... 11:38:23 <peter1138> hangs? 11:38:30 <peter1138> oh, on sending? hmm 11:38:37 <Darkvater> don't say 'transation complete' and 'ok' is disabled 11:38:41 <peter1138> see, i'd forgotten already... 11:39:10 <Darkvater> ah there we go..sjeesh 11:39:16 <peter1138> *nod* 11:40:58 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7467 /trunk/win32.c: 11:40:58 <CIA-1> -Cleanup: [win32] Disable the submit-savegame-on-crash code as we (webserver) 11:40:58 <CIA-1> doesn't do anything with it and the button has been disabled for ages. 11:41:55 <Bjarni> I *have* been thinking about the bug report about lack of aging of non-front train vehicles. Now we can fix it as autorenew should already be able to autorenew vehicles even if they aren't the front one 11:42:15 <peter1138> you *have*? 11:42:26 <Darkvater> it has nothing to do with autorenew 11:42:41 <Bjarni> when autorenew only worked for the front one, it would have been a pain to replace all engines manually 11:42:47 <Darkvater> you just need the tick-handler to not only age the <front vehicle 11:42:57 <Bjarni> yeah, have. People tend to make fun of my choice of have/has 11:42:57 *** znikoz [1@228-18-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #openttd [] 11:43:03 <peter1138> oh, i see :) 11:43:08 <peter1138> hehe 11:43:14 <Darkvater> Bjarni always sayd 'have' 11:43:20 *** znikoz [~1@228-18-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:28 <peter1138> i have, we have, it have 11:43:29 <Bjarni> not true 11:43:39 <peter1138> hmm, damn, comments are wiped out ;p 11:44:09 <Darkvater> yes it have true! 11:44:20 <hylje> Bjarni: I HAS FOOD 11:44:29 <peter1138> sotp 11:44:40 <peter1138> bcak ot the sujbetc 11:44:55 <Bjarni> my point is that we once (ages ago) figured that we should postpone fixing this bug until we could autorenew all vehicles, not just the front one, so now I'm pointing out that the reason to postpone this is no longer valid 11:45:25 <Bjarni> My updated autoreplace got the sideeffect that it can handle this case as well :D 11:45:51 <Bjarni> not all version of autoupgrade, just the current one 11:45:59 <Bjarni> (which should be good enough) 11:46:53 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7468 /trunk/ (win32.c win32.h): 11:46:53 <CIA-1> -Codechange: [win32] Add some comments to MB/WIDE_TO_WIDE/MB_[BUFFER] macros and 11:46:53 <CIA-1> use them some more in win32 code. Also for the clipboard use the convert_from_fs 11:46:53 <CIA-1> function instead of calling Win32 API directly. Make the static buffers in OTTD2FS 11:46:53 <CIA-1> and FS2OTTD the same size (character-length wise) 11:47:17 * Darkvater is about done with 0.5 11:47:29 <Darkvater> just a minor elrails conversion issue I will talk to KUDr about 11:47:32 <Darkvater> peter1138: your progress? 11:48:53 <KUDr> hello master 11:48:59 <Bjarni> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/431 <-- anybody thought of a place to add this option (in company window or something)? 11:50:01 <Darkvater> Bjarni: not yet, we need some wippies 11:50:03 <Darkvater> KUDr: mornin 11:50:29 <peter1138> Rubidium has a patch i need to go through for it 11:50:48 <Darkvater> ah the server version..yes 11:51:39 <Rubidium> patches for the masterserver, openttd itself and the website 11:51:41 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-140-196-226.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:52:01 <Maedhros> morning 11:52:22 <Darkvater> hi 11:52:54 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:53:07 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:54:37 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/screenshot.png 11:54:53 <Darkvater> too red? too wide? 11:55:16 <peter1138> hmm 11:55:16 <KUDr> both :) 11:55:23 <Maedhros> too red, but otherwise good :) 11:55:32 <peter1138> should i preserve comments in the [newgrf] config section? 11:55:58 <Darkvater> or just leave the colour, centre and make it bit narrower 11:56:09 <peter1138> remove the button 11:56:13 <peter1138> no-one should quit :D 11:56:14 <Darkvater> peter1138: they're reserved now, why remove it 11:56:49 <KUDr> or do quit on any key pressed :) 11:57:40 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/screenshot.png 11:57:43 <Darkvater> (refresh) 11:57:55 <Darkvater> dammit '~' doesn't remove console on screenshot 11:58:01 <Darkvater> I hate that 11:58:42 <KUDr> hmm, red was better 12:00:42 <Darkvater> consensus? 12:02:46 <peter1138> Darkvater: cos preserving them appears to be a pain 12:03:17 <Darkvater> hmm what have you changed? 12:03:26 <Darkvater> I see lots of people having comments in there 12:03:33 <peter1138> indeed 12:03:39 <peter1138> i made it save the config 12:03:46 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/openttd.cfg 12:03:48 <peter1138> 'cept by doing that it wipes out the comments, of course 12:03:49 <peter1138> so 12:03:56 <Darkvater> I got from some bugreport 12:04:13 <peter1138> problem is the comments are not standalone 12:04:27 <peter1138> they be tied to an entry 12:04:55 <Darkvater> hmm now the cfg is just buggy 12:05:03 <peter1138> hmm? 12:05:15 <Darkvater> I quit openttd with head, and most of the comments are gone, yet some remained 12:06:06 <Darkvater> if you look at the link you see #newshipsw.grf 12:06:18 <Darkvater> that's gone 12:06:20 <Darkvater> but 12:06:23 <Darkvater> # ---- others ---- 12:06:23 <Darkvater> #mars.grf 12:06:23 <Darkvater> #ccol2w.grf 12:06:23 <Darkvater> #pb_ukrsi.grf 12:06:26 <Darkvater> stayed? 12:06:39 *** CasB|z [~casb@ip145-160-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06:57 <peter1138> *nod* 12:07:04 <peter1138> they're the last comments 12:07:07 <peter1138> hmm 12:07:27 <peter1138> they're tied to the group, not an entry 12:07:30 <Darkvater> this needs solving 12:07:34 <peter1138> yup 12:08:06 <peter1138> comments within lists that are saved get wiped out too 12:08:32 <peter1138> ban list and servers list 12:08:40 <Darkvater> the comments in [patches] do stay 12:08:52 <Darkvater> ah lists in general 12:08:54 <peter1138> who wrote this system? heh 12:08:56 <Darkvater> then it's not your fault ;) 12:09:04 * Darkvater points at dominik 12:09:09 <peter1138> yes, because patches doesn't remove items 12:09:13 <peter1138> it only ever adds 12:09:29 <peter1138> but lists are cleared first 12:09:46 <peter1138> the fact that comments are tied to entries a bit troublesome 12:10:41 <Darkvater> hmm I'll be back soon and will have a look at that 12:10:47 <Darkvater> do newgrf-mp first 12:12:19 *** Osai [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 12:12:30 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7469 /trunk/openttd.c: -Fix (r7348): NewGRF settings weren't loaded in cases. 12:18:20 * peter1138 off 12:18:22 <peter1138> bbiab 12:18:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-141-227-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 12:31:24 <znikoz> when i can see cyrilic(ukrainian,bulgarian,russian) in ottd? now i see only ?????? ???????? ?????? 12:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have to load russianw.grf, or specify a font in openttd.cfg 12:33:17 <znikoz> russianw.grf.... where is it for download? 12:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> grfcrawler, i assume... or search the forum 12:34:01 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N708P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:20 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@M3085P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:38:51 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:51 * Brianetta ahs wet hair 12:39:11 *** lolman [~admin@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:44:55 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 12:47:20 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 12:50:01 *** lolman [~admin@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 13:01:34 *** bociusz [~bociusz@adsl29.pool.banknet.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:15 *** LadyHawk [here@82-47-23-153.cable.ubr02.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life] 13:11:31 *** Danny3848 [~Danny.Ale@CPE-138-217-252-154.wa.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Wolf01_))] 13:12:16 *** Wolf01_ [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:12:37 *** Wolf01_ is now known as Wolf01 13:13:13 *** scia_ [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:18:37 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:22:59 *** LadyHawk [here@82-47-23-153.cable.ubr02.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:26:05 *** bociusz [~bociusz@adsl29.pool.banknet.net] has left #openttd [] 13:26:23 *** bociusz [~bociusz@adsl29.pool.banknet.net] has joined #openttd 13:28:03 *** bociusz [~bociusz@adsl29.pool.banknet.net] has quit [] 13:28:40 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:46 <Darkvater> KUDr: ping 13:51:11 <KUDr> pong 13:53:15 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.37] has joined #openttd 13:56:48 *** scia_ [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:24 *** PandaMojo_ [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 14:05:14 *** Erik701 [~Erik701@d5153B82B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:06:28 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:38 *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo 14:10:13 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:24:38 <peter1138> back 14:24:50 <Darkvater> wb 14:25:16 <Darkvater> ey peter1138 question :) 14:25:30 <peter1138> hmm? 14:25:41 <Darkvater> what do you think should happen if one loads a 0.4.8 savegame in which you used electric engines 14:25:56 <Darkvater> should the whole map be converted to elrails tracks or 14:26:00 <peter1138> hmm 14:26:12 <Darkvater> whole map converted, but this conversion hidden so everything appears as it was before 14:26:23 <peter1138> elrailify 14:26:31 <Darkvater> (and you can show the changes with the patch setting) 14:26:33 <peter1138> i thought that's what it did 14:26:37 <Darkvater> yes 14:26:39 <Darkvater> but I mean 14:26:42 <Darkvater> elrailify 14:26:51 <Darkvater> or elrailify + merge normal+elrails 14:26:52 <Brianetta> use the pathfinder to electrify all the tracks as needed (: 14:27:08 <peter1138> hmm 14:27:18 <peter1138> not merge 14:27:37 <peter1138> can be merged with the patch option, i think? 14:27:39 <Darkvater> eg merge as in: allow electric run on normal rail as it was before you upgraded your savegame 14:28:14 <Darkvater> yes; the question is if this merge should happen on load so the user doesn't notice a thing, or a user has to do this manually 14:28:28 <Brianetta> special case: Send all 100% electric trains to depot. Give them the ability to traverse regular track until they get there. 14:28:30 <peter1138> well 14:28:44 <peter1138> i'd say it depends on what that patch option is before the game is loaded 14:28:45 <Darkvater> Brianetta: that's waaay too much work 14:28:45 <peter1138> but... 14:28:52 <Darkvater> it's undefined 14:28:52 <Brianetta> (-: 14:29:15 <Darkvater> because the patch option didn't exist in the old version 14:29:42 <peter1138> so it'll default to whatever is set, right? 14:29:50 <Darkvater> no 14:29:55 <Rubidium> isn't it possible to use the _patches_newgame variable for that when loading an old savegame? 14:29:55 <peter1138> hmm 14:30:07 <Darkvater> at the moment: game before elrails was introduced: merge elrails 14:30:30 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/optional_elrails.png 14:30:36 <Darkvater> donnu how much sense this makes 14:30:58 <glx> Darkvater: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/win32_warning.diff <-- fixes win32.c:1109: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules 14:31:15 <Darkvater> glx: lol 14:31:24 <glx> same as in sdl.c :) 14:31:30 <Darkvater> it is? who did that? 14:32:01 <Darkvater> if that's the only fix for the warning I'd rather not have it 14:33:02 <glx> the warning is only for release builds 14:33:08 <glx> (mingw) 14:33:17 <Darkvater> that fix is really bogus 14:33:22 <Darkvater> it's like doing the following: 14:33:28 <peter1138> yes 14:33:33 <peter1138> casts are almost never the right fix 14:33:41 *** Erik701 [~Erik701@d5153B82B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:42 <Darkvater> const char *a; char *b = (char*)(void*)a; 14:34:37 <peter1138> aww, my server's at 2053 :/ 14:34:41 <peter1138> i missed most of this game :( 14:34:43 <Darkvater> I can fix everything with a void* cast 14:34:55 <Brianetta> I don't understand void casts 14:35:17 <Darkvater> Brianetta: a void cast just say "this memory address points to anything" 14:35:46 <Darkvater> eg I could have char *a; Window *b = (Window*)(void*)a; 14:36:00 <Darkvater> (wouldn't even need the Window*) 14:37:17 <Darkvater> peter1138: about elrails? Make the elrail-upgrade visible by default or non-visible? 14:38:40 <Darkvater> hmm someone broke screenshot no_con 14:39:58 <Brianetta> I think that if rails are converted to erails, this should be made ovvious to the player. 14:40:32 <Brianetta> After elrails made it to the trunk, the first saved game I loaded, I spent half an hour unelectrifying my relif lines fo rthe sake of realism. 14:42:39 <Darkvater> well we can also _not_ electrify the tracks and have electric trains run on normal rail; just when you enable elrails then all your electric trains will 'die' 14:43:20 <peter1138> i say 14:43:24 <peter1138> electrify the tracks 14:43:26 <peter1138> make it visible 14:43:35 * ln- agrees with peter1138 14:44:14 <ln-> and at the same moment disable the ability to build regular tracks. 14:44:29 <hylje> why 14:45:36 <ln-> hylje: why why? if we are talking about disabling the effects that elrails have on gameplay. 14:46:25 *** stillunknown [~madman200@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Quit: stillunknown] 14:46:35 <Brianetta> 14:44 <ln-> and at the same moment disable the ability to build regular tracks. 14:46:38 <Brianetta> That's lame 14:46:42 <Brianetta> you might as well not have elrails 14:47:05 <ln-> or any kind of rails 14:47:06 <Brianetta> I don't only build elrails once they're available, even though they're the same proce 14:48:15 <peter1138> heh 14:48:19 <peter1138> we should fix that :) 14:48:32 *** Ben_123 [~Ben@82.152.216.53] has joined #openttd 14:48:40 *** Digitalfox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 14:48:58 <Digitalfox> Hi everybody :) 14:49:28 <peter1138> i electrified my express line after seeing that the pendolino is cheaper to run than the voyager 14:49:34 <Ben_123> Spam in the opennttd Graphics Section (I think) 14:49:42 <ln-> what are we talking about? 14:49:52 <HMage> you know, that makes actually no difference whether there's electric rails or not, if it'll be this way. Not that I liked the elrails patch, but disabling normal rails the moment electric ones are available just removes them from the gameplay. 14:49:57 <ln-> are we talking about making elrails optional, or what? 14:50:22 <peter1138> ln-: they're already optional 14:50:38 <peter1138> we're talking about whether they are enabled or not with old savegames 14:50:58 <peter1138> and that's only by default. it'll be toggleable 14:51:34 <HMage> imho it's better if it's not enabled when loading old save games, just overwrite the patch setting with disabled. That way the old games aren't broken. 14:51:58 <peter1138> HMage: old games aren't broken with the patch setting either way 14:52:19 <Darkvater> HMage: they aren't broken. What happened until elrails wasn't optional: if you have even a single electric engine all your nromal tracks were electrified 14:52:27 <HMage> when it's enabled either the looks are changed (they're converted to elrails automatically). 14:52:49 <ln-> "patch setting" ... 14:52:56 <HMage> this kind of putting things forcefully into someone's throat 14:53:02 <Darkvater> HMage: now that elrails are optional everything is still electrified, however this change is 'HIDDEN' (eg you don't see the catenary and electric trains can run on normal track) 14:53:08 <ln-> can't you rename those damn "patch settings" to something more sensible? 14:53:19 <Digitalfox> I vote in being enabled by default, they are so much more fun.. 14:53:21 <Darkvater> the question is if it should be 'hidden' or not and let the user do this hiding if he/she wishes 14:53:22 <peter1138> -patch would be good enough 14:54:44 <ln-> i say that catenary should be visible by default. if someone can't stand them, perhaps they should also remove the pantographs. 14:54:49 <HMage> Darkvater: what's the point of electrifying the track, hiding it from visibility, and letting the user have some problems why this track allows electric locomoties and other tracks don't? 14:55:21 *** Ben_123 [~Ben@82.152.216.53] has left #openttd [Leaving] 14:56:05 <Darkvater> HMage: eh it's merged, so the user won't have any problems 14:56:17 <Brianetta> Merge = evil 14:56:29 <Brianetta> Make it all 'lectric 14:56:42 <Brianetta> Make the player face up to the difference 9: 14:56:43 <Brianetta> (: 14:56:47 <HMage> ie all tracks become electrified? that's effective to disabling the elrails patch 14:56:51 <Brianetta> no 14:57:06 <Brianetta> They can still be unelectrified, and unelectrified lines can still be built 14:57:23 <Brianetta> and it should only be done if there are any trains that only ahve electric locomotives. 14:57:44 <HMage> an user who doesn't know that there were new type of rails would stumble why he can't build new sh30 engine 14:57:48 <Darkvater> ok anyone who hasn't tested current behaviour (nightlies for past 1-2 weeks) and older ones (months before) with old savgames, please refrain from commenting 14:58:03 <Brianetta> If they only have steam and iesel, or even a double-head diesel and electric, the lines should stay unelectrified. 14:58:21 <Darkvater> that includes both HMage and Brianetta 14:59:06 <HMage> Darkvater: I had loaded the game in trunk with an 0.4.8 savegame two weeks ago, the paths that were using electric locomotives were automatically converted to electric rails. 14:59:10 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Why would that include me? 14:59:18 <Darkvater> 15:58 < Brianetta> If they only have steam and iesel, or even a double-head diesel and electric, the lines should stay unelectrified. 14:59:24 <Darkvater> because that's already so ^ 14:59:34 <Brianetta> I know 14:59:37 <Darkvater> HMage: no, ALL tracks were 14:59:40 <Brianetta> I'm not suggesting changes 14:59:47 <Brianetta> I'm suggesting my preferred state 15:00:07 <peter1138> i've stated mine :) 15:00:19 <HMage> what's the point of this conversation then? 15:00:43 <Mikachu> is the set of loaded newgrf files saved with the savegame? 15:00:56 <Darkvater> peter1138: what was yours? ;) 15:01:06 <Darkvater> kinda lost track of it in the discussion 15:01:13 <peter1138> Mikachu: yes 15:01:45 <HMage> I could suggest my preferred state too, but I'm kind of sure nobody would at least consider any changes in that direction. 15:01:48 <peter1138> Darkvater: visible by default 15:01:51 <Mikachu> how's it handled with network games? 15:02:02 *** znikoz0 [1@165-20-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:15 <Darkvater> HMage: what would it be? 15:02:16 <Darkvater> peter1138: ok 15:03:31 <HMage> Darkvater: disable elrails completely if it's old savegame, don't convert. Let the user decide later, he can turn on electric rails - even if it stops all electric locomotives running, he will be able to do a choice on his own. 15:04:13 *** znikoz [~1@228-18-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:45 <Darkvater> HMage: that's a good way to be helpful to users :) Later in the game, let's say 1995 you will only use electric engines. You are suggesting for the user to have his whole network die and make him spend hours on trying to fix? 15:05:13 <hylje> its not like electrifying is hard 15:05:35 <HMage> Darkvater: I'm sure he know what's the risk is, and he can disable elrails later if he thinks he won't manage to convert a huge network. 15:05:57 <glx> hylje: you can't electrify if there is a train on the track 15:06:05 <hylje> i believe you can 15:06:10 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:29 <Darkvater> you can't 15:06:48 <HMage> Plus, 1995 has only electric rails, the difference between patch presence and absence comes down to different rail graphics. 15:07:12 <HMage> so there's no motivation to turn on electric rails on a 0.4.8 savegame of year 1995. 15:07:30 <hylje> i just tested with a recent trunk 15:07:42 <hylje> unelectrified track can be changed with trains under 15:08:25 <HMage> hylje: Darkvater was talking about if an user suddenly enables electric rails midgame, electric trains will be on unelectrified tracks and unmovable 15:08:40 <hylje> yeah 15:08:50 <hylje> but doesnt change the fact that the rail can be electrified 15:08:54 <Darkvater> HMage: no Iwas talking about a user using 0.5 after 0.4.8 15:09:01 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:09:30 <HMage> Darkvater: and if 0.5 disables elrails on 0.4.8 savegame. 15:10:02 <Darkvater> damn trains go so slowly into depots ;p 15:10:22 <Darkvater> hmm 15:11:46 *** HMage is now known as HMage`tea 15:14:48 <Darkvater> what if we don't upgrade track from before elrails to elrails and convert all running trains to railtype normal rail? You will have an inconsistency that your old trains will run on normal tracks, while the same trains, just built later will not 15:15:24 <Darkvater> that could also be a viable option..just a bit weird due to the inconsistency 15:18:44 <HMage`tea> nah, this consistency would confuse people that didn't know there is a new elrails feature. 15:19:22 <HMage`tea> inconsistency*. 15:19:55 <Brianetta> 15:06 <HMage> Plus, 1995 has only electric rails... 15:19:55 <Brianetta> eh? 15:20:14 <Darkvater> then we have 3 options 15:20:39 <HMage`tea> Brianetta: I meant that in 1995 there are no diesel locomotives (in default ttd), only electric ones 15:20:40 <Darkvater> 1. disable elrails for old saves completely (have them merged) 15:20:55 <Darkvater> 2. upgrade all rail to electric 15:21:10 <Brianetta> HMage`tea: That kind of excludes grf userss 15:21:21 <Darkvater> oh well 15:21:24 <ln-> if one has an electric locomotive in the middle of non-el rail, can it be moved using the power of the Force? 15:21:25 <Darkvater> someone else can tackle this 15:21:38 <Brianetta> Teleport the lot to depots (: 15:21:53 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7470 /trunk/ (elrail.c openttd.c): -Codechange: Leave elrails enabled after loading old (pre-optional) and very old (pre-elrails) games. Let the user manually disable if if undesired. 15:22:10 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/screenshot.png << do we like centred button? 15:22:55 <Darkvater> glx: if you want to commit something, remove the (void*) cast from sdl.c and anywhere else you find it in LoadLibraryList 15:23:39 <HMage`tea> Brianetta: the point was that if there are only electrified rails available, there's effectively no elrails patch in force. 15:23:56 <HMage`tea> er, if there are only electrified locomotives* 15:24:44 <Brianetta> and of course, players can't run old locos 15:25:34 <HMage`tea> Brianetta: in default ttd with no newgrf, they are phased out (unless of course you enable that locomotives don't expire) on 1995 15:25:52 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-140-196-226.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:53 <Brianetta> No, they just become really unreliabvle 15:26:07 <Brianetta> and yes, expiry can be turned off 15:26:21 <HMage`tea> I'm afraid you missed my point completely. 15:26:32 <Progman> Darkvater: yes, the centred button is better than a "missing button" 15:26:32 <Brianetta> Remember, one day electric rails will have their build and maintenance costs balanced 15:27:21 *** znikoz0 [1@165-20-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #openttd [] 15:27:38 <HMage`tea> I would be better motivated in enabling electric rails if there were any bonuses for using them or penalties for not using them, as for now the game doesn't get richer with the patch enabled, just becomes more complex. 15:27:50 *** znikoz0 [1@165-20-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:12 <Brianetta> Balancing was at 0.7 on the roadmap, last time I looked 15:28:21 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7471 /trunk/intro_gui.c: -Codechange: Centre the 'quit' button on the main menu. 15:28:29 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7402.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:33 <Brianetta> but the feature can't be balanced if it doesn't exist. 15:28:54 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7402.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:29:07 <HMage`tea> I agree with that, Biranetta. 15:29:10 <HMage`tea> Brianetta* 15:30:41 <HMage`tea> though some planning work is still possible for features that aren't implemented. Else it'd be too costly to build some applications. 15:31:21 <Darkvater> orudge`: can you ban this asshole 28884 15:33:58 *** CasB [~casb@ip145-160-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 15:35:39 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-186-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:39:46 *** DJFire [~djfire@m0d5e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:56 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 16:12:13 *** fusee [fusion@cpe-76-174-15-199.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:13:54 *** Gorthdar [opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has joined #openttd 16:14:43 *** Gorthdar [opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has quit [] 16:16:17 *** Gorthdar [opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has joined #openttd 16:17:13 *** Gorthdar [opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has quit [] 16:19:26 *** Gorthdar [~opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has joined #openttd 16:19:43 *** fusey [fusion@cpe-76-174-15-199.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:43 *** fusee is now known as fusey 16:19:51 <Brianetta> Ploppable buildings (: 16:21:30 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8310A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:21:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:28:58 *** znikoz0 [1@165-20-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:17 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCC8.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:57 <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/transparency_options_against_trunk_7469M.diff 16:41:58 <Wolf01> my more transparency options, updated to be merged in trunk, but need some work because is changed something which i don't know and it doesn't work, if somebody want to fix it i'll appreciate :) 16:53:04 *** Gorthdar [~opera@chello089173006090.chello.sk] has left #openttd [] 16:58:58 *** LadyHawk [here@82-47-23-153.cable.ubr02.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:48 *** kampasky_ [pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 17:02:47 *** kampasky [pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:41 *** lolman [~ubuntu@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:09:25 * lolman realises how stoopid he was trying to install Arch onto his main machine without trying it on non-essential ones forst 17:09:40 <lolman> (I screwed up gdm beyond all repair) :( 17:10:19 <lolman> Anyways...Any major OTTD additions since I was last here? :P 17:12:42 *** lolman is now known as AloneLolman 17:12:43 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:50 <AloneLolman> :o 17:13:09 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:13:24 <AloneLolman> helb: wb :) 17:16:09 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-186-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:30 <AloneLolman> :O 17:17:55 <CIA-1> glx * r7472 /branches/newhouses/ (59 files in 5 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r7422:r7469 17:18:18 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:29 <AloneLolman> lws1984: ello 17:18:53 <lws1984> hallo AloneLolman 17:19:11 *** AloneLolman is now known as lolman 17:19:30 * lolman got fed up of arch 17:19:32 <lolman> :P 17:20:06 <lolman> Sacro's gonna be annoyed cause I gave up so quickly lol 17:20:10 <lws1984> hah 17:20:20 <hylje> :> 17:20:25 <Wolf01> anybody have seen my patch? 17:20:30 <lws1984> i'm in the middle of installing Ubuntu on my laptop 17:20:48 <lolman> lws1984: I'm installing ubuntu on this as I speak 17:21:22 <lws1984> cool 17:21:26 <hylje> lol, ubuntu 17:21:34 * lolman <3 live cds 17:22:10 <lws1984> bah 17:22:12 <lws1984> i made my own! 17:22:16 <lws1984> and i downloaded it myself! 17:22:19 <lolman> lmao 17:22:46 <lws1984> and i screwed up my partion table on my own, too 17:22:50 <lws1984> which is why it's not done yet 17:22:54 <lolman> Hehe 17:22:57 <lws1984> had to re-install OS X so i had my bootstrap or whatever 17:23:08 <lws1984> then throw Ubuntu on the other partition 17:23:14 <lolman> heh, Mac's are silly :P 17:23:23 <lws1984> Lies. 17:23:31 <lolman> troof :) 17:23:32 <lws1984> it's going to be even more übergeeky than it was before 17:23:34 <lws1984> i mean 17:23:39 <lws1984> a laptop named Enterprise 17:23:41 <lws1984> :p 17:23:51 <lolman> Nah 17:23:58 <lolman> Nebuchadnezzer is better :) 17:24:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:24:32 <lolman> Hmm 17:24:42 <lolman> This thing is stuck at configuring apt 17:24:57 <lolman> Think NTL are having issues again 17:25:11 <lolman> brb :) 17:25:15 <lws1984> sudo mv lolman /dev/null 17:25:17 <lws1984> :D 17:26:22 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-186-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:27:22 *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away 17:27:32 <lolman> Oh noes 17:29:00 <lolman> Sacro: I gave up on Arch for now 17:29:15 <Sacro> lolman: how comes? 17:29:27 <lolman> I screwed gdm beyond all recognition lol 17:29:33 <hylje> ha 17:31:38 <Sacro> lolman: pacman -Rd gdm 17:31:50 <Sacro> -Rdn i think for nosave 17:31:55 <Sacro> and then pacman -Sf it 17:32:02 <lolman> Sacro: too late :D 17:32:49 <Sacro> hmmm... 17:33:50 <lolman> I physically removed it :D 17:33:53 <lolman> (arch) 17:34:02 <Sacro> :( 17:34:03 <Sacro> aww 17:38:06 *** Chris1976 [~Chris1976@212.183.134.67] has joined #openttd 17:40:42 *** Chris1976 [~Chris1976@212.183.134.67] has left #openttd [] 17:41:54 *** lolman [~ubuntu@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:38 *** DJFire [~djfire@m0d5e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:13 *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984 17:55:51 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F240B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:56:36 *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away 17:58:11 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:58:34 <lolman> NTL are having issues :( 18:02:14 <ln-> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ a good example of British English. 18:03:29 <hylje> your ^s are misaligned 18:04:27 *** Bytefox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 18:05:42 <peter1138> hmm? 18:06:34 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:33 <ln-> an american would have said "NTL is having issues", i suppose. 18:07:52 <Noldo> base are 18:07:56 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:39 <peter1138> who cares want an american would've written? 18:08:41 <peter1138> *what 18:09:22 <ln-> someone who has studied a little linguistics, such as me. 18:09:42 <lolman> Bloody americans don't know how to spell :P 18:09:51 <Bjarni> you studied corrupted English? 18:10:16 <peter1138> easily done by reading yours 18:10:48 <lolman> You studied corrupted English? 18:12:12 <Bjarni> peter1138: at least I can spell 18:12:18 <Bjarni> besides it's not THAT bad 18:12:30 <lolman> Ladies! 18:12:38 <lolman> Calm down a bit :) 18:13:35 <Bjarni> no 18:13:46 <Bjarni> American sucks 18:13:50 <Bjarni> end of story 18:13:52 <lolman> No doubt it does 18:13:55 <Bjarni> I settle for no less 18:14:09 <lolman> Just ignore people who say otherwise, you know they're wrong ;-) 18:14:40 <Bjarni> remember when I said I put MYOB on ignore? 18:14:50 <lolman> Nope? 18:15:07 <Bjarni> he insulted me and argued about crazy stuff so I said I put him on ignore 18:15:31 <Bjarni> the next day I replied to his bullshit he said about me when he thought he was on ignore 18:15:37 <lolman> lol 18:15:45 <lolman> Nice one :) 18:17:31 <lolman> Sounds like what happened to me about a month ago in an AOL chatroom lol 18:18:06 <lolman> A guy was spreading crap about me and my friends in there...while he thought I was ignoring him 18:18:25 <lolman> Happens that I was logging it all...and I confronted him about it :P 18:24:48 *** znikoz [1@213-23-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:08 *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984 18:27:00 <Bjarni> 1984 is back to watch us 18:27:22 <lws1984> Indeed. 18:27:35 <lws1984> Big Brother is watching YOU!! 18:27:41 * lws1984 suddnely points at lolman 18:28:09 <lolman> :o 18:28:20 <lolman> NOES! 18:29:15 * Brianetta wobbles, but doesn't fall down 18:29:23 * Mikachu pushes Brianetta over the edge 18:29:29 * Brianetta wobbles, but doesn't fall down 18:29:38 * Mikachu dies 18:29:44 <Brianetta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeble 18:29:46 * lolman oushes Mikachuover with Brianetta 18:29:52 <lolman> puches* 18:29:55 <lolman> pushes* 18:29:58 <lolman> Damnit 18:30:15 <lolman> NTL are having issues...BIG issues 18:31:40 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@74.140.121.53] has joined #openttd 18:31:48 <Sacro> lolman: that'll be a pound 18:31:59 <lolman> lol 18:33:02 <lolman> ffs 18:33:08 <lolman> can't even complain to em 18:34:03 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:41 <lolman> No phone or TV atm, the buggers cut them off 18:37:07 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F240B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: YOU! It was you wasn't it!?] 18:37:14 *** Ailure[AFK] is now known as Ailure 18:38:31 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74.140.121.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:31 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 18:40:11 <peter1138> mmm mince pies 18:40:18 <lolman> LIES 18:40:39 <peter1138> stupid tesco and their buy two for £1.50 offer 18:40:49 <lolman> haha 18:42:30 * peter1138 retires his first train 18:42:41 <peter1138> 149 years old 18:42:45 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 18:44:09 <Brianetta> http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00005BNID.02._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1086878688_.jpg 18:44:15 <Brianetta> I have this on my desk 18:44:20 <Brianetta> Built it last Christmas 18:44:22 <Brianetta> IT ROCKS 18:44:31 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:32 <lolman> Brianetta: what is it? I can't load the pic 18:45:15 <Brianetta> http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/08/10/b3/d9_1.JPG 18:45:16 <Brianetta> that 18:45:17 <peter1138> it's fake lego 18:45:31 <lolman> Can't load that either...lol 18:45:40 <lolman> NTL is messed 18:45:47 <Brianetta> peter1138: Yes, but MegaBloks ProBuilder series are actually good 18:46:02 <Brianetta> Everything else I have is real Lego 18:46:07 <Bjarni> watch out for fake lego 18:46:22 <Brianetta> http://thesatya.com/albums/models/megaloco/megaloco545.html 18:46:38 <Mikachu> megaloco is a nice name 18:46:43 <Bjarni> more and more people in Asia (mainly China?) produces fake lego. Some of them legally, some of them illegally 18:46:52 <Brianetta> http://thesatya.com/albums/models/megaloco/megaloco488.html 18:47:27 <Brianetta> Bjarni: Mega Bloks is not pretending to be Lego, and they actually have a license to reproduce the 30 basic Lego bricks 18:47:36 <Bjarni> looks like a Royal Hudson 18:47:49 <Brianetta> It has no tender ): 18:47:55 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 18:47:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 18:47:56 <Brianetta> so it's limited to downhill runs 18:48:09 <Bjarni> "Some of them legally, some of them illegally" 18:48:15 <Brianetta> without wagons, unless they have a brake van 18:48:34 <Brianetta> Bjarni: It's not fake Lego 18:48:44 <Brianetta> It's genuine Mega Bloks 18:49:04 <Bjarni> you can't operate a locomotive that designed to use a tender without a tender 18:49:15 <Brianetta> Bjarni: Just roll it down a hill 18:49:47 <Brianetta> or trail it with an umbilical (: 18:50:11 <Bjarni> since if they got a tender, they lack water tanks on the engine itself and you can't operate a steam locomotive without the ability to add water to the boiler 18:50:26 <Brianetta> Bjarni: I never said it'd go far 18:50:45 <Brianetta> Downhill, with enough of a head to pull off the rakes 18:50:50 <Brianetta> er, brakes 18:51:20 <Bjarni> then you could just push wagons down the hill on their own. You need no engine power to do so 18:51:28 <Brianetta> but 18:51:35 <Brianetta> the goal is to operate the loco 18:51:39 <Brianetta> not move anything 18:52:25 <Brianetta> anyway, the loco woul dbe handy for operating the brakes 18:52:56 <Bjarni> thinking about it, the drivers looks a bit small 18:53:25 <Brianetta> they are 18:53:37 <Bjarni> they should be say 20% larger 18:53:44 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:53:46 <Brianetta> It's a totally fictional engine 18:53:56 <Bjarni> or the locomotive would be really slow 18:54:02 <Brianetta> You should see the nuclear aircraft carrier in the same range 18:54:12 <Brianetta> it's worse for scale than TTD 18:54:18 <Brianetta> which reminds me 18:54:29 <Brianetta> TTD locos work fine without their tenders (: 18:54:35 <Brianetta> They don't even have to stop for water. 18:54:52 <Bjarni> we need water refuelling stuff 18:55:12 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590ead76.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 18:55:13 <Brianetta> we need to make UKRS the default set (: 18:55:16 <Bjarni> including water "canals" (forgot the English name) 18:55:24 <Bjarni> yeah 18:55:49 <Brianetta> and include a "lame-ass original vehicles.grf" for those who whinge 18:56:11 * Mikachu hugs his flashbang wizz 18:56:41 <Rubidium> Darkvater: ping 18:56:55 <Brianetta> http://thesatya.com/albums/models/nychudson/ 18:57:00 <Brianetta> Same person did a Hudson 18:57:10 <Brianetta> but it's an NY Central 18:58:19 <Brianetta> coool 18:58:20 <Brianetta> http://thesatya.com/albums/trains/ 18:58:34 <Brianetta> He's got a model railway and he's got creative with the angles 18:59:10 <Bjarni> http://thesatya.com/albums/models/aircraft/F16/lf1605.html <-- that reminds me of when I tried to build a plane out of lego. I got a far as to make the gears move up and down on hydraulics and then I lost interest. 18:59:42 <Brianetta> Yeah 18:59:46 <Brianetta> ProBuilder models look good 19:00:09 <Brianetta> The train has working doors, roof vents, bogeys and pistons 19:00:17 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7473 /trunk/ (train.h train_cmd.c train_gui.c): 19:00:17 <CIA-1> -Fix (r7269): Pass a cargo type to determine the freight weight 19:00:17 <CIA-1> multiplier instead of a vehicle. Fixes incorrect display of total 19:00:17 <CIA-1> train capacity. 19:00:18 <Bjarni> but I didn't buy a plane model. I built it out of lego based on my own design 19:00:19 <Brianetta> and the inside of the cab has all the controls modelled 19:01:03 <peter1138> ttd's easier 19:01:07 <peter1138> there's less mess to clear up 19:01:22 <Brianetta> peter1138: Way, way cheaper, too. 19:03:46 <Nigel> Bjarni, hey that looks REALLY cool 19:04:01 <Bjarni> http://thesatya.com/albums/models/londonb/lonb1751.html <--- LOL, it's Tower Bridge, not London Bridge 19:06:52 <Bjarni> but it reminds me of some Americans, who went to London, saw Tower Bridge and went to City Hall to buy London Bridge. They offered some money and they would pay for a replacement bridge. At that time, the real London Bridge was of no historical value, in poor condition and way too small for the traffic load so they were already planning a replacement, so they signed a contract, that sold London Bridge to the Americans. They got chea 19:06:52 <Bjarni> ted by their own ignorance, but they gave London a new bridge and the old London Bridge is somewhere in a US desert 19:07:01 <Brianetta> London Bridge was dismantled and shipped to the USA. (: 19:07:03 <Bjarni> those Americans were nice to London :D 19:07:12 <Brianetta> Oh, you pasted the story. 19:07:17 <Bjarni> no, I wrote it 19:07:33 <Bjarni> not copy paste, but writing from memory 19:07:49 <Brianetta> oh 19:07:51 <Brianetta> kudos 19:08:07 <Bjarni> bbl 19:08:13 <Brianetta> The bought it before they came to London, though 19:08:14 *** LadyHawk [here@82-47-23-153.cable.ubr02.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:09:27 <Nigel> Ahhh the Plague! 19:09:52 <LadyHawk> uh, me? :o 19:09:58 * LadyHawk runs around the channel to infect everyone 19:12:25 <peter1138> who wants to debug desyncs? 19:12:32 <Nigel> no, London Bridge :P 19:12:46 <Nigel> peter1138, sure i'll do it on the bus ;) 19:13:01 * Nigel quickly goes and prints the source code 19:13:54 <Rubidium> peter1138: what's required for the debug/desync session? 19:14:26 <Sacro> Rubidium: cup of tea and some biscuits are a start 19:15:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E242.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:15 <Rubidium> Sacro: is Hot Chocolate and another type of cookie ok too? 19:15:29 <Sacro> Rubidium: for me, no, for you, quite possibly 19:15:31 <Nigel> Rubidium, you need http://www.amazon.com/Nanas-All-Occasion-Delicious-including-Chocolate/dp/B0006G3PSM/ref=pd_bxgy_gf_text_b/103-2249543-0865431 19:17:51 <peter1138> Rubidium: patience 19:19:04 <Rubidium> hmm, should I run it in gdb? 19:21:21 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76D41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:53 *** znikoz [1@213-23-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B771EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:27 *** ufoun [ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 19:25:15 <peter1138> who knows :) 19:26:59 <peter1138> it's the old 'reload the game fixes it' one :/ 19:28:09 *** Nigel [~Nigel@202-154-144-120.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:20 <peter1138> glx is still connected 19:32:27 <peter1138> 's only me who desyncs 19:34:11 <LadyHawk> you guys aware of the nightly bug with the newspapers? an industry closes, but then next time it tries to close that same industry and the news shows the top corner of the map 19:34:26 <LadyHawk> i had a game yesterday and it really spammed me with that same message over and over 19:34:35 <LadyHawk> like it thought that industry was still sitting somewhere in the world 19:35:17 <LadyHawk> i just browsed around the forums but couldn't find it mentioned anywhere.. 19:35:55 <Ailure> Is there any good multiplayer server? 19:40:37 <Ailure> also 19:40:41 <Ailure> there's something amusing 19:40:48 <Ailure> with zeppelins that makes helicopter noises :) 19:49:40 <glx> peter1138: yes it's stable for me :) 19:52:18 <Rubidium> peter1138: do all files need to be in the same directories? 19:53:51 <glx> no it autofind the right files in data subdirs :) 19:54:27 <Bjarni> LadyHawk: never heard of it (even though that tells near nothing as I have been busy lately). If nobody mentioned this anywhere, then post a bug report with a savegame and your openttd.cfg file 19:54:48 <Bjarni> then there is a better chance on figuring out what happens 19:56:03 <Rubidium> hmm, got the wrong versions of pb_ukrs.grf and pb_hovs.grf :( 19:56:11 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:56:30 <glx> get them on fuzzle.org 19:56:46 <Rubidium> You don't have permission to access /o/trunk/data/custom/ukrs/pb_hovs.grf on this server. 19:58:54 <peter1138> follow the links 20:04:31 <Rubidium> I still can't find a pb_hovs.grf on PikkaBird's site 20:04:36 <peter1138> hmm 20:05:20 <peter1138> http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/secret/pb_hovs.grf 20:05:21 <Rubidium> and the one you'll find via grfcrawler isn't the correct one 20:08:53 <peter1138> so i desync and you don't... 20:09:03 <Rubidium> yup 20:09:10 <Rubidium> now I did 20:09:19 <peter1138> *** Peter1138 has left the game (desync error) 20:09:24 <peter1138> *** Rubidium has left the game (connection lost) 20:09:26 <peter1138> hmm 20:09:42 <Rubidium> I got a desync error though 20:09:50 <hylje> zomg? dev nightly server 20:15:17 <glx> desync for both 20:17:28 <peter1138> hmm 20:17:32 <peter1138> happens very often 20:17:43 <peter1138> so has be affecting something with some fundamental calculation 20:18:54 <peter1138> i like the simple "do this and breaks" desyncs :/ 20:19:44 <glx> peter1138: hmm the server is still a "crashable with autoreplace" version iirc :) 20:22:03 <peter1138> maybe i should start another server with no newgrfs 20:22:06 <peter1138> see what happens... 20:23:06 *** Osai [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:26:24 *** Wolf01_ [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:26:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Wolf01_))] 20:26:27 <CIA-1> glx * r7474 /branches/MiniIN/ (57 files in 5 dirs): [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7429:r7473 20:31:51 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-100-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:32:11 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@M3085P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:14 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N955P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 20:36:54 *** Wolf01_ is now known as Wolf01 20:37:52 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-190-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:02 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 20:38:06 <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Sync error detected! 20:40:07 <Brianetta> And again 20:40:16 <glx> and I'm still logged in :) 20:40:28 <Brianetta> So I see 20:41:50 <Brianetta> So, any idea what's causing the desyncs? 20:42:40 <peter1138> some sort of data inconsistency 20:42:46 <Brianetta> oof 20:42:48 <Brianetta> desynced again 20:42:55 <peter1138> or buffer overflow 20:42:58 <peter1138> or... who knows 20:43:09 <Brianetta> Anything I can do to assist? 20:43:19 * Brianetta is happy to patch & recompile 20:43:38 <Mikachu> would it be recommended to restrict the openttd port to expected ips when i'm playing with friends if i'm paranoid? 20:43:40 <peter1138> i don't have any patches to aid desync hunting 20:43:55 <peter1138> Mikachu: or just password it 20:43:55 <Brianetta> Mikachu: Only if apranoid. 20:44:23 <Mikachu> is most of the buggy code exposed only after joining the game? :) 20:44:33 <Brianetta> Mikachu: Easier and more effective, would be to disable master server advertising. 20:44:42 <peter1138> and now glx's desyncing? hmm 20:44:48 <Mikachu> i don't advertise 20:45:03 <glx> peter1138: yes I logout and reconnect and now I desync too 20:45:05 <peter1138> ahhh 20:45:06 <peter1138> yes 20:45:09 <Brianetta> You're pretty safe. Few, if any, random port-scanning worms loko for OpenTTD servers. 20:45:24 <Mikachu> good to know 20:46:05 <Brianetta> I run one on my domestic broadband *and* two on my server in London (soon to be three) 24/7 20:46:10 <Brianetta> Never had a security issue 20:46:35 <peter1138> it's better than it used to be ;) 20:47:21 <Brianetta> Mikachu: Of course, to be properly paranoid safe you should run OprnTTD under a dedicated login. 20:47:38 <Rubidium> hmm, valgrind seems to be too slow :( 20:47:47 <peter1138> yup 20:47:50 <Mikachu> that's an idea 20:47:59 <Mikachu> but i haven't really secured my system against local users anyway 20:48:09 <Mikachu> i probably have some old suid shells lying around :) 20:48:20 <Brianetta> If somebody breaks through to shell, it keeps your own user's files safer 20:48:28 <Brianetta> assuming they don't root it immediately 20:48:30 <jotham_> heh, my boss is trying to get parts for his 40 year old calculator 20:48:42 <Brianetta> jotham_: I am surrounded by slide rules 20:49:09 <jotham_> an HP, one of those ones with red-neon lit numerals/filamants 20:49:14 <Mikachu> yeah 20:49:19 <Brianetta> Mains powered? 20:49:25 <Brianetta> Non-scientific? 20:49:36 <Brianetta> I thought HP brought out their first in 1973 20:49:47 <Brianetta> which would make it 33 years old at the most 20:49:51 <jotham_> he loves the fucking things, has a serial cable for it so he can program with it, he has used it in my time here to test interfaces with various bits of hardware we work with 20:50:01 <jotham_> ok 33, yeah i was probably exagerating 20:50:11 <Brianetta> (: 20:50:23 * Brianetta is holding a 40 year old calculator 20:50:37 <jotham_> hah 20:50:48 <jotham_> oldest calculator i have is a pentium 100 20:51:02 <Brianetta> I have several slide rules 20:51:13 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 20:51:13 <Brianetta> and a mechanical addiator that I gave to Helen 20:51:20 <Brianetta> although only I know how to operate it 20:51:22 <jotham_> yeah my dad is a civil engineer for the railways 20:51:27 <jotham_> he has some pretty oldschool kit 20:53:11 *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2RB6Vegas 21:00:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E242.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:21 <Brianetta> desyncs would make this game unplayable 21:00:30 <Brianetta> Good job I'm only spectating. 21:00:30 <jotham_> i get them all the time 21:00:40 <jotham_> i wish i knew why 21:00:52 <jotham_> my friend who connects to my lan from his house has a perfect game, i get desynchs 21:01:06 <jotham_> him and i both run on windows, but the server i am running is on linux 21:01:21 <Brianetta> Desyncs are caused by a difference in game state 21:01:32 <Brianetta> normally detected by comparing the current random seed 21:01:37 <glx> and they are hard to track 21:01:45 <glx> *trace 21:02:00 <Brianetta> THey have nothing to do with the connection speed, reliability, etc - that all has some other error 21:02:36 <glx> like "connection lost" or "client X is slow" 21:02:41 * Brianetta nods 21:02:56 <jotham_> well he is consistently slow 21:03:06 <Brianetta> but he doesn't desync 21:03:07 <jotham_> like, the console gets spammed with Player #7 slow 21:03:17 <Brianetta> you do (: 21:03:21 <jotham_> but i desynch, i wondered if my computer is running the simulation faster than the server 21:03:26 <Brianetta> no 21:03:32 <jotham_> but the server is only eating 20% cpu 21:03:47 <Brianetta> They're kept in lock-step every net-frame-freq 21:04:14 <Brianetta> By default, every single frame 21:04:20 <jotham_> hum 21:04:26 <Brianetta> there's a kind of network heartbeat to keep things in time 21:04:54 <Brianetta> but the entire game is modelled in parallel on the server and every client 21:05:15 <Brianetta> Any client that has a game state differing from the server is desynced and disconnected 21:05:35 <Mikachu> can't it just redownload the state? 21:05:39 <Brianetta> usually, the random number generator is the means to test this, but there are probably other tests 21:05:53 <peter1138> Mikachu: you do that by reconnecting 21:05:54 <Brianetta> Mikachu: It can, but i fthe desync is cause by having the wrong GRFs loaded... 21:06:05 <Brianetta> well, you can imagine 21:06:10 <jotham_> it gets so bad eventually that it restarts me every 5 minutes or so 21:06:13 <Mikachu> some sort of limit would be a good idea 21:06:14 <Brianetta> That doesn't happen int he recent trunk revisions 21:06:26 <Brianetta> which check the grfs 21:06:37 <jotham_> we're just using out-of-the-box 0.4.8 or whatever 21:06:39 <Brianetta> but there might be other states where the game syncs every time 21:06:39 <Mikachu> well, i don't have any idea how it works, i just like to say things when i think of them 21:06:47 <Brianetta> and for a 4MB map, that's a heavy penalty 21:07:37 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:07:38 <Brianetta> desyncs, I meant 21:08:01 <jotham_> yeah we play 1024x1024 21:08:07 <jotham_> right now we're on 256x1024 mountian map and it's fine 21:08:15 <jotham_> except i'm almost bankrupt 21:08:25 <Brianetta> Get your competitors to bail you out 21:08:31 <jotham_> how 21:08:37 <Brianetta> Ask them for cash 21:08:37 <Mikachu> client list -> give money? 21:08:41 <jotham_> ok 21:08:47 <jotham_> he started on flat land and me in the hills because i needed the challenge 21:08:56 <jotham_> but i went and tidied my house and didn't pay attention 21:09:00 <jotham_> and got owned by stupidity 21:09:38 <jotham_> so that INFRA chicks siesta tracks are cool 21:09:48 <jotham_> have started using them 21:10:07 <Brianetta> SAC? 21:10:16 <Brianetta> "that INFRA chick" 21:10:22 <Brianetta> don't let Darkvater see you call her that 21:10:32 <jotham_> funny/accurate nerd/geek/dork dissection http://catandgirl.com/view.php?loc=94 21:10:38 <jotham_> why not? was it offensive? 21:10:42 <jotham_> i didn't know her name 21:10:56 <Brianetta> not so much offensive as lacking a certain respectful tone 21:11:04 <jotham_> chick isn't an offensive term in my country, and we're hardly pre-feminist 21:11:14 <jotham_> unlike much of europe felt 21:11:31 <jotham_> anyway, no offence meant 21:11:53 <jotham_> chick here is like guy 21:12:05 <jotham_> casual antonym 21:12:06 <Brianetta> That cartoon has nerd and geek reversed... 21:12:12 <jotham_> no it doesn't 21:12:49 <Brianetta> People claim that a lot here 21:12:57 <jotham_> claim what a lot 21:13:20 <Brianetta> that those definitions of nerd and geek are the correct way around 21:13:38 <Brianetta> Wikipedia has it that way, too, but that's written by the mob 21:13:41 <jotham_> well from what i've read of the etymology of both it is the case 21:14:01 <Brianetta> Etymology? References, please 21:14:31 <jotham_> http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-Dictionary-English-Etymology/dp/0198611129 21:14:33 <jotham_> ^^ 21:14:45 <jotham_> it's still a bit of a subjective adventure 21:14:57 <Brianetta> I shall have a read of that next week 21:15:18 <jotham_> as i understood it geek was a simpleton/freak 21:15:25 <jotham_> and a nerd was a dr suess contrivance 21:15:32 <Brianetta> http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/geek.html <-> http://catb.org/jargon/html/N/nerd.html 21:15:57 <jotham_> uh the jargon file isn't really a sane reference site :p 21:16:12 <Brianetta> It does, however, describe the subculture's jargon 21:16:22 <jotham_> actually it looks like nerd and geek are as cat and girl suggests there 21:16:29 <jotham_> geek is things like sysadmin, startrek fan 21:16:34 <jotham_> nerd is thing like CS major 21:16:38 <Mikachu> everyone seems to have their own definition of geek and nerd, no point in trying to convince anyone one way or another 21:16:55 <jotham_> well there is enough material avalaible to find some common ground Mikachu 21:17:00 <jotham_> much like religious people do with scripture 21:17:27 <Brianetta> Personally, I call myself a geek and I treat nerd as a slur. 21:18:00 <jotham_> personally i see myself as a nerd as i aim to improve my art with math and programming, but i have no affiliation with popular subculture if i can help it 21:18:38 <jotham_> it kills me that geeks are so derisive of pop-culture yet are just as bad 21:18:48 <jotham_> exclusionism is a rediculous human social function 21:19:01 <Brianetta> So are sweeping generalisations 21:19:09 <jotham_> we all know the folly of generalisations 21:19:15 <Brianetta> ANother subculture I am a member of is goth 21:19:19 <jotham_> haha 21:19:22 <jotham_> they are so common here 21:19:32 <Brianetta> and I'm happy to pigeon-hole myself. 21:19:38 <jotham_> actually being replaced with emo now, defined as 'like goth, but a lot more harry potter' 21:19:55 <Brianetta> Emos don't even listen to goth music 21:20:07 <jotham_> i think that was along the line of 'all asians look teh same' 21:20:40 <jotham_> on that note, i am quite amused at wikipedia - we now have a pop culture reference that is administered by a group that traditionally loathes all things popular 21:21:06 <Brianetta> I don't loathe the popular, so much as seek out the scenes I feel at home in. 21:21:27 <Brianetta> Rejecting the popular and picking an alternative at random seems... misguided to me. 21:21:36 <jotham_> have you read any of the stuff on inclusive and exclusive social behavior? 21:21:48 <Brianetta> some 21:22:36 <jotham_> i think feelings of alienation lead to a stronger need for inclusion but in turn a greater zealousness in rejecting the society they were alienated from 21:23:02 <Brianetta> Perhaps. 21:23:12 <Brianetta> Still misguided, IMO, but so is much behaviour. 21:23:15 <jotham_> so you end up with rabid DDR fanboys that loath people getting worked up over paris hilton 21:24:01 <jotham_> for myself, i think any kind of affiliation is ultimatly intellectually dangerous 21:25:31 <Brianetta> well, my affiliations are borne of shared interests. OpenTTD, for example, is the reason I hang out here. My taste in music is eclectic, but my favourite is goth. I love computers, and the ideals of freedom, so I hang out int he FOSS community. In fact, I'm a local community leader int hat respect. 21:25:41 <Brianetta> These affiliations are, in my opinion, healthy. 21:25:45 <jotham_> what is FOSS 21:25:49 <Brianetta> If I change, so shall they. 21:25:57 <Brianetta> Froo and Open Source Software 21:26:01 <Brianetta> er, Free 21:26:04 <jotham_> oh 21:26:41 <jotham_> i am pretty suspicious of freedom, i'm not sure if it's just a practical delusion. but i don't think it's the kind of discussion for here :) 21:27:26 <jotham_> do you have a last.fm page? i am interested in what is considered goth in the UK 21:27:36 <Brianetta> what's last.fm? 21:27:50 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@p54B3DC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:57 <Brianetta> I just quit a goth club. Have a look at their playlists online 21:28:01 <jotham_> uhm, you install a plugin into your player of choice and it builds a profile of the bands/tracks you listen to 21:28:02 <Brianetta> http://www.thecharnelhouse.com/ 21:28:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy] 21:28:15 <jotham_> then you can find people with similar taste etc 21:28:32 <Brianetta> My players of choice is a PSP 21:28:36 <jotham_> http://www.last.fm/user/jothamread/ 21:28:38 <jotham_> ok 21:28:56 <jotham_> at home i have winamp which i can hit with VNC 21:29:23 <jotham_> yeah that club plays similar stuff to the goth nights here 21:29:29 <jotham_> no dedicated club though 21:29:40 <Brianetta> goth's a sort of post-punk alt-80s genre 21:29:44 <jotham_> yeah 21:30:37 <Brianetta> I often feel frustrated when kids who are into metal or stuff like Marilyn Manson say they're goth. It makes me wonder how they're ever giong to find a club they like, or records they like in a shop. 21:30:54 <jotham_> there are a lot of them in this city, but the next generation of disassociated chilluns seem to be all emo'd out 21:31:17 <Brianetta> Emos - now they're an odd bunch. 21:31:25 <Brianetta> Got to like their fashion, though. 21:31:28 <jotham_> my gf is one heh 21:31:28 <peter1138> heh 21:31:36 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 21:31:44 <MeusH> good evening 21:31:47 <jotham_> well she changes actually, i think really she's just trying to find something she likes 21:32:08 <Brianetta> My fiancée is a sexy goth chick (: 21:32:23 <jotham_> sexy goths are damn sexy 21:32:29 <Brianetta> Tell me about it. 21:32:42 <jotham_> as a be-bearded artist nerd i am socially not in line with them, but they are hot 21:32:42 <Brianetta> Just under a year and we'll be wed 21:32:50 <jotham_> better than the rag wearing artist flakes i know 21:33:06 *** Osai [~Osai@p54B3ECDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:16 <Brianetta> I have two looks - goth, and about to climb a hill 21:33:35 <jotham_> hills are good 21:35:09 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCC8.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 21:36:10 <Mikachu> there's no equivalent of ttdpatch's track upgrade cheat, is there? 21:38:37 <MeusH> there is convert rail tool 21:38:50 <MeusH> but you need to drag-drop the area you want to upgrade 21:39:00 <Mikachu> can you autoupgrade trains from rail to monorail? 21:39:09 <Mikachu> actually i could just test that, sorry :) 21:39:30 <Mikachu> i'm currently playing toyland with a single interconnected network with 50 trains 21:39:47 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7475 /trunk/ (newgrf.c string.h): -Fix (r7348): sanity check NewGRF action 8 strings for null terminator 21:40:55 <Mikachu> hm 21:41:01 <Mikachu> that sent every train to depots without doing anything 21:41:35 <Wolf01> 'night 21:41:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 21:41:59 <MeusH> Mikachu, open monorail construction toolbar 21:42:20 <MeusH> and press a button with a yellow arror 21:42:28 <MeusH> it is last or second from right button 21:42:35 <Mikachu> yes, i know how to convert the track, the problem is the trains/wagons 21:43:13 <MeusH> hmmm that doesn't sound good 21:44:18 *** Rens2RB6Vegas is now known as Rens2Sea 21:47:02 <Mikachu> ah, i need to send all trains to depot 21:47:08 <Mikachu> convert all rails 21:47:10 <Mikachu> then i can autoconvert 21:48:22 <glx> you need to convert trains by hand too 21:48:28 <Mikachu> New Vehicles: -30.000.000$ 21:48:36 <Mikachu> i used autoconvert 21:48:48 <glx> miniin I guess 21:48:53 <Mikachu> i had to click the autoconvert button in all depots manually though 21:48:53 <Mikachu> yeah 21:49:43 * peter1138 runs ottd under gdb with efence 21:49:49 <peter1138> mmm, speedy :P 21:49:53 *** Digitalfox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:14 <Mikachu> for some reason the autoreplace of old vehicles isn't working either 21:50:20 <Mikachu> but i'll blame miniin for that 21:51:02 <peter1138> hmm 21:51:06 <peter1138> it stopped within yapf 21:56:16 <Bjarni> Mikachu: if autorenew fails, then try to turn it off and on again. It's a known issue (GUI and game gets out of sync, maybe when loading) 21:58:17 <Mikachu> i think the problem was i was trying to create monorail vehicles in a normal train depot :) 21:59:24 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 22:00:49 <Brianetta> Can we have extra grfs loaded yet? 22:00:57 <Brianetta> as in, grfs not running ont he server 22:01:13 <glx> cosmetic grfs? 22:01:17 <Brianetta> indeed so 22:01:39 <Brianetta> like dutch catenary, czech rails, new roads, etc 22:01:50 <Brianetta> or even just prettier level crossing barriers 22:01:54 <Brianetta> and new fences (: 22:02:02 <peter1138> soon 22:02:05 <Brianetta> (: 22:02:16 <jotham_> i really need to learn how to make graphics 22:02:26 <jotham_> i want to make a new bridge 22:02:26 <Brianetta> I don't like default catenary. It often lines up against a rail and becomes hard to see. 22:02:45 <jotham_> a brick one, i can't stand those cantilever bridges 22:03:07 <Brianetta> jotham_: Use PikkaBird's brick viaduct 22:03:16 <Brianetta> It replaces the 20mph wooden bridge 22:03:23 <Brianetta> and allows higher speeds early on 22:03:31 <jotham_> i'll look into it - but i'm still interested in making some of my own 22:04:23 <Brianetta> Hmm, fuel cell trains make catenary flashes 22:04:26 <Brianetta> Dodgy 22:04:47 <jotham_> is Trainz Railroad Simulator any good? 22:04:53 <Brianetta> In some respects 22:05:01 <Brianetta> Unfortunately, it's a Windows game 22:05:18 <jotham_> i'm not os biased 22:05:22 <Brianetta> I am 22:05:27 <jotham_> yeah most people are 22:05:53 <jotham_> at home i have a mac laptop, winxp, and ubuntu side by side 22:05:59 <jotham_> as my desktops 22:06:01 <Brianetta> This OS (not Windows) is the one set up for IRC, IM, email, etc, etc 22:06:07 <Brianetta> and I spend all my time in it 22:06:10 <jotham_> yeah that's how my ubuntu is 22:06:14 <Brianetta> I don't fancy rebooting to play a game 22:07:00 <Brianetta> I do, sometimes 22:07:04 <Brianetta> to play Thief or X 22:07:28 <jotham_> i need to give osx x86 a whirl sometime, but it looks to me that without buying a specific mobo/cpu/etc it'll not be a very sweet ride 22:07:42 <Brianetta> but I dislike Windows in general. The active window must be in front of all the others, and I find that really restrictive. It counts against Mac SO X for me, too. 22:08:04 <jotham_> it's easy enough to change that in both OSes 22:08:09 <Brianetta> no 22:08:09 <jotham_> but yeah no GUI is without issue 22:08:24 <Brianetta> in OS X, focusing ont he mouse makes the application menus hard to use 22:08:28 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8310A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:40 <Mikachu> you can activate windows without raising them, but not being able to lower windows is something i really get annoyed at 22:08:40 <Brianetta> In Wondows, the power-toy still raises windows when you click in them 22:08:42 <jotham_> true the GUI isn't designed for it 22:09:02 <jotham_> in xp there is a registry key and it has a few operation modes 22:09:05 <Brianetta> Mikachu: Send-to-back is important. 22:09:27 <Brianetta> jotham_: I have explored it. It's not as versatile as it promises to be. 22:09:33 <jotham_> i understand 22:09:42 <Brianetta> I administer a Win2K3 AD at work 22:09:49 <jotham_> i tend to just learn the metaphore the creators want me to use, the same goes with programming languages and software packages 22:10:29 <Brianetta> I'm IRCing right now in a large IRC window. In the middle of this is an OpenTTD window on peter1138's server. 22:10:36 <Brianetta> I'm typing underneath that (: 22:11:04 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B836AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:11:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:11:17 <jotham_> i'm at work, 2 x 19" tft, irc is in small window, other terminals etc all over the place 22:11:27 <Brianetta> re 22:11:50 <Mikachu> so you had to buy another screen because you can't manage windows efficiently? :) 22:11:58 <Brianetta> heh 22:12:18 <jotham_> i usually debug on window 2 while application is running full screen on window 1 22:12:35 <jotham_> development is very window-heavy, in linux i'd use virtual desktops 22:12:41 <Brianetta> You need a third screen, attached to a second machine 22:12:58 <jotham_> i wrote a socket library for doing that with macromedia flash kiosk applications 22:12:59 <Brianetta> That's for documenting bugs in the event of a crash hard enough to freeze your dev machine 22:13:14 * Brianetta uses a laptop (: 22:13:16 <jotham_> since they ran with touch screens and no UI stuff 22:13:47 <jotham_> it's rare my machine hard freezes, only thing that happens is the video driver has a cry, but i have a hot key to reset it now 22:15:04 <Brianetta> When I was beta tester on X3, I often encountered hard freezes. Once, the game ran an unexcepted div/0 22:15:29 <Brianetta> I imagine the CPU just sat there incrementing a register by 0 22:15:34 <Brianetta> until it reached its value 22:15:34 <glx> the "nice" thing in windows is when explorer.exe freezes :) 22:16:57 <jotham_> guess i should go buy trainz tonight 22:17:06 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0DCB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:19:53 <Brianetta> I'd like presignals that only reacted to routeable exit signals 22:20:17 <Brianetta> Then I could have a single line duplex track with more than three trains, and no holding area. 22:22:14 <jotham_> yeah that'd be cool 22:22:35 <Brianetta> Of course, it would really naff up those priority lines that people use 22:22:39 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0DEB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:43 <peter1138> i was wondering about doing something similar to ttdp's route restrictions 22:22:45 <Brianetta> but they're far from realistuc 22:22:59 <jotham_> is there a web site that has all the different track design patterns? 22:23:01 <peter1138> signal restrictions that can be restricted based on another signal's setting 22:23:07 <peter1138> == programmable signals, somehow 22:23:55 <Darkvater> back \o/ 22:24:12 <peter1138> hello 22:25:30 <MeusH> hello 22:29:13 <Darkvater> ol 22:29:14 <Darkvater> A 22:29:20 * Darkvater removes caps 22:30:11 <Darkvater> do I hear someone say desync errors? 22:30:33 <Darkvater> they're so fucking annoying. Every time I went to test them they never happened :s 22:31:20 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-106.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:32:26 <peter1138> well 22:32:31 <peter1138> i think i've found the culprit 22:32:44 <Darkvater> :O 22:32:45 <Darkvater> good job 22:32:46 <peter1138> i disabled yapf, and it's stable now 22:32:47 <Darkvater> what is it? 22:32:56 <Darkvater> ohoh 22:33:01 <Darkvater> cacherebuild needed? 22:33:10 <peter1138> well, it's gone 2 years without a desync 22:33:16 <peter1138> it does cache rebuild, though 22:33:44 <glx> and I had no desync until I logout to reconnect :) 22:33:54 <peter1138> indeed 22:34:28 <KUDr> so when you connect to existing game then yapf causes desync? 22:34:43 <peter1138> KUDr: seems so, but only after a long time 22:34:45 <Mikachu> turbo works better if you hold down tab instead of caps lock 22:34:46 <peter1138> == hard to debug 22:35:04 <KUDr> long time after connect? 22:35:20 <peter1138> long time after the game was started or loaded 22:35:22 <Brianetta> KUDr: no 22:35:34 <peter1138> it'll play fine for ages 22:35:47 <peter1138> when suddenly it'll start desyncing every couple of minutes 22:35:47 <Brianetta> Once the game reaches a certain age, desyncs are numerous and frequent 22:36:08 <peter1138> saving and reloading the game fixes it, for another period of time 22:36:17 <KUDr> aha 22:36:23 <peter1138> also 22:36:25 <KUDr> so it is problem of savegame 22:36:30 <peter1138> clients that connected at the start stay connected 22:36:33 <peter1138> only new clients desync 22:36:39 <peter1138> savegame or cached info 22:36:49 <KUDr> not yapf itself as yapf works with existing data only 22:37:06 <KUDr> no cached info across frames 22:37:17 <KUDr> so it should not be cache 22:37:25 <Darkvater> peter1138: yes that problem (only new clients are desynced) is known, but also existed *before* yapf got added 22:37:42 <peter1138> Darkvater: fine. but in this case disabling yapf fixed it 22:37:48 <peter1138> i haven't reloaded the server 22:37:51 <KUDr> ahh 22:38:16 <KUDr> we need some dignostics (CmdCheckGameState) 22:38:27 <peter1138> however 22:38:33 <KUDr> checking CRC of certain game data 22:38:38 * Brianetta is willing to help test this 22:38:40 <peter1138> i ran it with gdb & efence 22:38:51 <peter1138> and it stopped on a free within yapf 22:38:53 <KUDr> efence? 22:38:58 <peter1138> electric fence 22:39:04 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.233] has joined #openttd 22:39:05 <KUDr> aha 22:39:09 <peter1138> memory allocation debugger 22:39:17 <KUDr> on free() call? 22:39:23 <peter1138> not quite as stringent as valgrind, as i understand it 22:40:08 <KUDr> hmm, if there was problem with deallocation i should have it found in debug mode under win32 22:40:11 <peter1138> specifically on ,...~CHashTableT() {delete [] m_slots; m_num_items = 0; m_slots = NULL;} 22:40:47 <KUDr> free inside delete[] ? 22:40:50 <peter1138> yes 22:40:57 <KUDr> hmm 22:41:06 <peter1138> this may be efence tripping up somewhere 22:41:10 <glx> delete[] does free internally 22:41:17 <KUDr> yes 22:41:45 <KUDr> but in debug mode i must see such problem immediatelly 22:42:07 <KUDr> and was it HashTable from cache or from yapf nodes (open/closed) 22:42:10 <jotham_> i just made this, it's pretty trippy http://www.metacafe.com/watch/325720/crazy_paper_folding_trick/ 22:43:07 <UnderBuilder> how can I get an old revision of miniin (I am using windows with tortoisesvn) 22:43:11 <peter1138> i don't know, i had closed it a while ago ;( 22:43:19 <UnderBuilder> I wan't to get r7430 22:43:32 <Brianetta> metacafe whinges about my Flash version 22:43:45 <Mikachu> try the 9 beta 22:44:00 <Brianetta> UnderBuilder: svn up -r revision && svn revert -R * 22:44:28 <MeusH> that's great trick :) 22:44:59 <MeusH> goodnight 22:45:00 <Brianetta> I'm guessing that Tortoise has the same shell commands as the Linux one 22:45:05 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit] 22:45:36 <Rubidium> TortoiseSVN has _no_ real svn shell commands (only one that somewhat resembles svn info) 22:45:53 <glx> it's fully GUI based :) 22:46:02 <glx> integrated in windows explorer 22:46:13 <Brianetta> yuck 22:46:31 <Rubidium> but when you click on the update thingy, it will have a radio button where you can specify a revision instead of HEAD 22:46:38 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:54 <Rubidium> but you must have checked out svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/MiniIN for that to work in the first place 22:50:00 <jotham_> so is the nightly playable? 22:50:07 <Brianetta> yes 22:50:09 <jotham_> is there a recent stableish nightly snapshot that is? 22:50:10 <jotham_> ok 22:50:32 <jotham_> if it solves the desynch problems i've been having it'll be sweet 22:50:47 <Darkvater> jotham_: please tell us when you do ;) 22:51:16 <jotham_> Darkvater: did you hear what i said the other day about the linking of trains (using unload) vs the direct trips? you told me to report when i had investigated it 22:51:30 <Brianetta> I take it these desyncs would delay 0.5, of nothing else did? 22:51:34 <Brianetta> s/of/if/ 22:51:45 <Rubidium> jotham_: does not using YAPF solve the desyncs? 22:51:59 <jotham_> i'm running 0.4.8 i don't think it has YAPF 22:52:01 <jotham_> just NPF 22:52:13 <Darkvater> jotham_: yes I heard...kinda forgot what you said though ;p 22:52:24 <Brianetta> it doesn't 22:52:52 <Darkvater> don't think we have more or less desync than we had with 0.4.8 22:52:54 <jotham_> that because the trains were running shorter routes the service % went up and they got more goods overall and you had less end-point conjestion as there were fewer (if not much longer) trains hitting it 22:53:10 <jotham_> in my test the profit was quite different 22:53:14 <Brianetta> Darkvater: We had more desyncs on peter1138's server tonight 22:53:24 <Darkvater> that's peter ;) 22:53:43 <Brianetta> Solved by switching to NPF, it seems 22:53:46 <Darkvater> jotham_: with transfer? 22:53:46 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.233] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]] 22:53:49 <Brianetta> well, worked around 22:54:08 <jotham_> i'll make a screenshot 22:54:21 <glx> the server is running since more than 24h 22:58:59 *** riot [~wntrmut@clx-ac2-53-3.westend.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:49 <jotham_> so is there a website with track design patterns? 23:00:52 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7402.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:03 <jotham_> i'd be quite interested in putting some effort into a section on the wiki or something 23:01:17 <peter1138> there is 23:01:22 <peter1138> 1) some on the wiki already 23:01:26 <peter1138> 2) owen's site 23:01:56 <jotham_> ok i couldn't find any on the wiki, what is owns URL? 23:02:10 <jotham_> *owen's 23:02:11 *** riot [~wntrmut@clx-ac2-36-3.westend.com] has joined #openttd 23:02:49 <jotham_> oh i see, found it in the wiki, cheers 23:03:05 <helb> gn 23:06:39 *** ufoun [ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:15 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:09:41 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [] 23:31:20 *** Bytefox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 23:34:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E242.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:51 *** xkill [~wntrmut@clx-ac2-143-3.westend.com] has joined #openttd 23:38:51 *** riot [~wntrmut@clx-ac2-36-3.westend.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:44:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B836AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:31 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 23:51:45 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590ead76.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: bin wech....] 23:57:24 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:31 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:40 *** glx|away is now known as glx 23:59:23 <Ailure> hmm 23:59:33 <Ailure> Is there any logical reasons why the max amount of players is 10? 23:59:45 <Ailure> I would have set a much more liberal limit if I coded the multiplayer. >>