Log for #openttd on 18th December 2006:
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00:01:40  <Wolf01> 'night all
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00:01:52  <jotham> fuck yeah, stinky ass smoked brie, wild berry glory, and sourdough
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02:16:17  <mikk36|lap> hey :)
02:16:34  <mikk36|lap> quick link for installing openttd on suse 10.2 ?
02:17:16  <Sacro> mikk36|lap: svn co svn:// && cd trunk && make && su -c "make install"
02:17:56  <glx> make install is optionnal
02:18:23  <Sacro> glx: he did say install :p
02:18:28  <mikk36|lap> it downloads it into the dir where i run svn client ?
02:18:36  <Sacro> ?
02:18:42  <Sacro> no, $pwd/trunk
02:19:06  <glx> you can tell it where you want it to put files
02:19:08  <mikk36|lap> hmh, how could i force it to /home/user/openttd/revision ?
02:19:58  <glx> svn co svn:// /home/user/openttd/revision should work
02:20:20  <mikk36|lap> brh, i meant revision as the number that the trunk is
02:21:01  <glx> you need to name the dir yourself
02:21:07  <mikk36|lap> ok
02:28:57  <mikk36|lap> #openttd /branches/MiniIN is the real MiniIN ?
02:29:04  <glx> yes
02:29:08  <mikk36|lap> k
02:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> are there unreal miniins?
02:29:34  <mikk36|lap> well, i saw another miniin folder, but it contained other stuff
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02:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. if you don't intend to use "svn up", you don't need to use "svn co", but can use "svn export" instead
02:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> it skips the creation of .svn folders
02:31:51  <glx> but without .svn folders you can't autodetect rev in Makefile
02:32:20  <mikk36|lap> i went the gui way
02:32:23  <mikk36|lap> kdesvn
02:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, use "make RELEASE=foo" then
02:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> brb (i hope)
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05:27:18  * Aloysha prods channel
05:39:32  <Aloysha> anyone home?
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06:01:20  <_jotham> Aloysha: negative
06:01:39  <Aloysha> =(
06:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> definitive no
06:31:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i am never home
06:32:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (i hope someone gets the double irony in that sentence ;))
06:33:12  <Aloysha> because you're.. home now? :p
06:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that is half the part ;)
06:39:22  <_jotham> do corsair make ok SD cards?
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08:13:29  <mikk36> erm
08:13:42  <mikk36> g++ needed in linux to compile ?
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08:30:45  <Brianetta> yes
08:30:55  <Brianetta> YAPF was written in C++
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09:08:07  <peter1138> hello
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09:29:17  <mikk36> i just wondered that suse had make in default, but not g++ :)
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09:34:46  <Brianetta> I see that trunk is the usual hive of activity (:
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09:39:34  <peter1138> is it?
09:39:47  <peter1138> i need to kick bt in the balls
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09:42:39  <Celestar> morning
09:44:36  <Darkvater> morning
09:45:10  * Celestar 's new HDD in the laptop just failed again
09:45:29  <Tefad> Celestar: congratulations
09:45:39  * Celestar suspects the controller to be broken ...
09:46:03  * Darkvater suspects Celestar wants a new laptop
09:46:08  <Celestar> no
09:46:15  <Celestar> an IBM T42p is fine
09:46:23  <Darkvater> you're just saying that cause your chats are logged ^^
09:46:41  <Celestar> I am naturally on another machine :P
09:46:49  <Darkvater> keylogger?
09:47:22  <Celestar> gnah
09:47:40  <Darkvater> peter1138: I though you went on a long-weekend holiday but you're telling me BT was out?
09:48:18  <peter1138> indeed
09:48:42  <Darkvater> man that sucks. I would've strongly preferred the former one
09:49:11  <Darkvater> << ludde@work? ;p
09:52:14  <Tefad> haha awesome
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10:02:51  <blathijs> Darkvater: BT?
10:03:00  <Darkvater> British Telecom
10:03:51  <Celestar> this sucks, I cannot mount this filesystem :S
10:07:56  <Darkvater> ok, this is totally gay
10:08:17  <peter1138> what is?
10:08:19  <Darkvater> I got a mail 2WEEKS! after the occasion with some stupid 5-year old drawings and poetry
10:08:24  <Darkvater> saying: Please stop by at our office for a Sinterklaas present!
10:08:50  <Darkvater> from my employer
10:08:54  <Darkvater> bunch of idiots
10:08:57  <Darkvater> total retards
10:09:14  <Celestar> when will RC1 be released? :)
10:09:19  <Celestar> *runs*
10:09:36  <Darkvater> when peter's ready ;p
10:09:53  <Darkvater> we've actually been waiting for him this weekend to sync about the masterserver and grf patch
10:09:55  <Celestar> doing what?
10:10:07  <peter1138> Rubidium's got all the juice for that anyway
10:10:23  <Darkvater> I know, I've been with him over the weekend
10:10:26  <Darkvater> eh
10:10:33  <Darkvater> not *that* way
10:10:35  <Celestar> ^^
10:11:26  <Darkvater> the only problem with RC1 is that to properly work we need to update the masterserver and only TL can do that, but he doesn't have time right now cause he got some exam
10:11:59  <Darkvater> or we update and have garbage on the masterserver for a few days
10:12:25  <peter1138> no garbage, just nothing
10:12:33  <Darkvater> Rubidium says garbage
10:12:50  <peter1138> should be empty :)
10:12:57  <peter1138> as it won't understand the version number
10:13:02  <peter1138> and thus won't read anything
10:13:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: ^
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10:14:08  <Darkvater> I haven't looked at masterserver code so I have no idea
10:14:52  <Rubidium> it is kind of garbage at best...
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10:15:29  <Darkvater> orudge``: did _it_ compile? :)
10:15:47  <roboboy> hello
10:15:50  <peter1138> "where i can download the last verion to open ttd patch?"
10:15:52  <peter1138> haha
10:16:30  <Darkvater> << this Jim Powers' writing style cracks me up
10:16:39  <Rubidium> even _if_ you have no GRFs loaded the game_date, start_date, companies_{on, max}, spectators_max, and the servername are wrong.
10:16:55  <peter1138> wrong? it should be empty
10:17:02  <peter1138> if it's not, then the code is wrong
10:17:19  <Darkvater> "should" is a very ideal word I'm afraid ;)
10:17:29  <peter1138> well, it's a switch block
10:17:46  <peter1138> switch (version) { case 3: etc; case 2: etc; case 1: etc; }
10:17:54  <peter1138> if version is 4, it all gets skipped
10:17:58  <Darkvater> in the masterserver?
10:18:01  <Rubidium> ah, sorry, yes.. it becomes all zeroed
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10:18:10  <Darkvater> :O
10:18:11  <Darkvater> FUD!
10:18:45  <peter1138> you can, of course, consider empty data to be garbage...
10:19:00  * Darkvater can live with empty data for a while
10:19:10  <peter1138> well, also the master server doesn't appear to give out servers that have no data
10:19:14  <Darkvater> it only affects the website anyways, ingame you get the data from the server directly
10:20:41  <Rubidium>
10:20:56  <Rubidium> and you'll get quite a few Unnamed servers :)
10:21:18  * Darkvater is fine with that as a temp solution
10:22:28  * Rubidium wonders why unknown game versions aren't discarded by the clients either
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10:23:08  <Darkvater> ok, so let's wrap up this MP-patch...
10:26:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: can you have a look through the rubidium-client patch? I've hammered him to death about comments, so it should be understandable. State your preference and/or questions
10:26:40  <Darkvater> after that I have a debug-diff for you (post 0.5) with 2 small (design) questions
10:29:42  <Darkvater> provided you have time and willing of course
10:31:59  <Rubidium> now I've got some time :)
10:32:10  <peter1138> i don't have time at the moment
10:32:29  <Darkvater> hehe
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10:32:45  <Darkvater> just yell :)
10:32:53  <Gonozal_VIII> AAAAAA
10:34:13  <Darkvater> not you
10:34:31  <Gonozal_VIII> ok
10:36:41  <peter1138> yell what?
10:36:56  <peter1138> if you're happy with it, it's fine by me
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10:39:49  <Darkvater> well I'm happy with it as far as it is possible but thought for your input since well... it is your expertise
10:40:17  <hylje> AAAA!
10:40:18  <Darkvater> wtf
10:40:18  <Darkvater>
10:40:31  <Darkvater> hehe
10:40:35  <hylje> tt-forums seems to be a rather good source of WTFs
10:40:40  <Darkvater> [All] Anusville: poo head
10:41:36  <Celestar> hylje: ?
10:42:00  <Darkvater> hmm I think after 0.5(RC1) I'll try something like automatically setting a random password for your company on join
10:42:12  <hylje> every other day someone links there with the caption "wtf"
10:42:18  <Celestar> pfft
10:43:01  <Celestar> some people protest against the contruction of 6km-bypass because it might destroy some special kinds of grasses :S
10:43:26  <hylje> its all nimby i tell ya
10:43:31  <hylje> or rather banana
10:43:40  <Celestar> I mean I'm all for protecting the environment but if I had 10.000 trucks + 30.000 cars going through my village every DAY I'd say fsck those grasses
10:43:48  <Darkvater> Celestar: pot ;p
10:43:50  <Celestar> hylje: there are no nimbys nearby.
10:44:00  <Celestar> hylje: the only thing on these 6km is a rather busy port.
10:44:07  <Darkvater> how much grass is a human life worth?
10:44:16  <hylje> yeah, thus banana
10:44:22  <Celestar> which would be Happy to finally have a proper road connection
10:44:35  <peter1138> i know i'm busy, but...
10:44:38  <Darkvater> OMG
10:44:42  <Darkvater>
10:44:49  <Darkvater> WHY, WHY is the world full of idiots?
10:45:04  <hylje> looks like we ascended from wtf to omg
10:45:28  <Darkvater> cookies for everyone!
10:45:54  <Celestar> how do you find out which version your current open TTD is?
10:45:56  <Celestar> ^^
10:46:03  <Celestar> I find it's kinda funny :
10:46:27  <Celestar> that's why we should remove the icons and go to a text interface. That way we could at least make sure that the users can read
10:46:33  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7503 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add bounds checking for spriteset cargo types. (NewCargo support will change this rule a bit...)
10:46:49  <peter1138> hmm
10:46:53  <peter1138> still stuck on Transmitting Data..
10:46:55  <Darkvater> :O
10:46:55  <peter1138> what's going on there?
10:46:57  <Darkvater> he's busy ;p
10:47:50  <Darkvater> TL's downloading too much pr0n
10:47:52  * Darkvater hdies
10:48:14  <Darkvater> lol, this guy cracks me up
10:48:21  <Darkvater> " I could make a OTTD map of that part of Canada"
10:48:22  <peter1138> now, hurry up 0.5 :P
10:48:25  <peter1138> or 0.5.0
10:48:30  <Darkvater> ", if you send me some maps" << #1
10:48:31  <peter1138> or whatever we're calling it
10:48:42  <Darkvater> " I don't really know canada, so a description would help. (Like town names, sizes, industries, terrain)"" << #2
10:48:47  <peter1138> OpenTTD Vista
10:48:50  <Darkvater> "Unfortunately, I don't know how to create a heightmap. " << #3
10:49:04  <Darkvater> that is the best post ever
10:49:16  <Celestar> lol
10:49:51  <Darkvater> shall we shoot for a night-release?
10:50:08  <Darkvater> I still needa make some big warning about changing newgrf's midgame...
10:50:14  <Darkvater> but then it's done
10:50:17  <Celestar> hm ..
10:50:32  <peter1138> ooh, we have people interested in AI development
10:50:46  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm interested in what you are doing to the svn server?
10:50:57  <peter1138> what am i doing to it?
10:51:12  <Celestar> dunno I can't even svn up :P
10:51:19  <Celestar> oh wait
10:51:21  <Celestar> got one file
10:51:21  <Rubidium> I can :)
10:51:21  <Darkvater> DaleStan: remember you asking someone to close that topic yesterday?
10:51:33  <peter1138> strange
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10:51:49  <Celestar> got another file
10:51:53  <DaleStan> I do.
10:52:03  <peter1138> i wanted basic newcargo support, but the basic part is about 50KB
10:52:13  <peter1138> the newgrf part is about 5KB on top :o
10:52:17  <Darkvater> DaleStan: I got a PM from the guy ^^
10:52:32  <Darkvater> DaleStan: telling me his problem...with a miniIN game o_O
10:52:46  <Celestar> hr hr
10:52:49  <Darkvater> I wonder how big of a retard you have to be to do that
10:52:56  <peter1138> "If anyone has problems; PM me."
10:52:58  <peter1138> ha ha
10:52:58  * DaleStan is at a loss for words.
10:53:37  <peter1138> Celestar :)
10:53:54  <Darkvater> he's been told about 3-4 times in that thread to go post in the sticky topic..and still...he made my day
10:54:00  <DaleStan> How many times have we covered the "there's a MiniIN problems thread" concept?
10:54:25  <Celestar> baah
10:54:27  <Celestar> conflicts
10:54:37  <peter1138> hmm?
10:54:43  <DaleStan> I didn't mean to make extra work for you, I just figured that if the topic were locked, I'd have to put my flamethrower down.
10:54:54  * peter1138 waits for his ISP to respond
10:55:03  <Darkvater> DaleStan: yeah, I thought you were about to burst
10:55:10  <peter1138> I hope they're not on holiday...
10:56:00  <Celestar> ...
10:56:13  <Celestar> has an RSS feed for the latest quotes now :P
10:56:48  <Sacro> one ring to rule them all
10:57:14  <Celestar> trunk takes ages to compile meanwhile :o
11:00:30  <Darkvater> what was the AI plugin called?
11:00:31  <Darkvater> GIMP?
11:00:41  <Darkvater> GPMI
11:00:42  <Darkvater> he\
11:00:42  <Celestar> ban
11:00:43  <Celestar> gpmi
11:01:10  <Celestar> is it me or do we need a faster SVN server?
11:01:42  <Darkvater> it works fast for me
11:02:04  <CIA-1> celestar * r7504 /branches/bridge/ (135 files in 8 dirs): [bridge] - Sync with r7118:7200 from trunk
11:02:24  <Darkvater> DaleStan: "Hi, i just wanted to tell that the person who shut down the topic... well, ok for me, but, i am running miniIN 7498 (and please do not say there is a newer version, because i dl this one three days ago...) and i tried to do the same thing, sell a subsidairy whilst their train is on my track. It blocks the whole line and my trains getting stuck too!
11:02:26  <Celestar> back in 2
11:02:29  <Darkvater> "
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11:04:13  <DaleStan> This is when I begin to wish that phpBB had [blink]
11:04:33  <Darkvater> what's [blink]?
11:05:15  <peter1138> presumably a blink tag ;p
11:05:30  <DaleStan> "You seem to be having trouble with the [size=32][color=red]POST MiniIIN PROBLEMS [blink]IN THE MiniIN PROBLEMS THREAD[/blink][/color][/size]"
11:05:41  <Darkvater> lol
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11:06:01  <Darkvater> wb Celestar
11:06:04  <DaleStan> Of course, without the tyops.
11:06:05  <Celestar> why does gnome-terminal randomly changes window wize?!
11:06:07  <Celestar> thanks Darkvater
11:06:08  <roboboy> gnight
11:06:34  * Darkvater gets some ducktape, wraps it around roboboy and throws him into the trunk
11:06:42  <Darkvater> sleep tight biatch
11:06:52  <Darkvater> with that fishes that is
11:06:57  <Darkvater> *evil* laughter
11:08:21  <Celestar> ^^
11:08:57  <Celestar> merging bridges will be hell
11:08:58  <Celestar> :S
11:09:01  <Celestar> with the saveload revisions
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11:09:46  <Darkvater> you're best off just throwing out support for old magic-bridge saves
11:09:58  <Darkvater> eg make it only work with new games
11:10:10  <Celestar> I think I can make it work
11:10:51  <Celestar> we ought to have some tag in the svn comment that does mention a saveload revision change.
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11:12:08  * Darkvater is in need of some lunch'en
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11:15:03  <Sacro> Celestar: bridge merging?
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11:18:56  <Celestar> Sacro: as soon as 0.5RC1 is released and I've done some testing
11:19:07  <Sacro> Celestar: ooh nice
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11:21:26  <Gonozal_VIII> cool, bridges :-)
11:23:01  <Gonozal_VIII> i like bridges, they go over things :-)
11:23:20  <Tefad> was there improvement to bridges lately?
11:23:23  <Tefad> (six months)
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11:27:32  <peter1138> just a couple of bug fixes, i believe
11:29:31  <Sacro> i dont even think they have been done
11:29:58  <hylje> they are functional
11:30:04  <hylje> and pretty neat
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11:30:41  <peter1138> Sacro: no? i remember doing them, so...
11:30:55  <Sacro> peter1138: oh, i was probably asleep or something
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11:31:06  <peter1138> Celestar: hmm, yes, it's b0rked alright
11:31:31  <Sacro> i thought it was Tron who was doing it
11:31:57  <Celestar> peter1138: what is?
11:32:15  <Celestar> Tefad: to the branch? no? is anything broken?
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11:38:35  <Tefad> no sorry. just curious.. and too side tracked as it is to poke on the forums
11:39:20  <Tefad> also, there may be some openttd happening at a LAN party in january : D
11:39:27  * Tefad shrugs
11:39:43  <Tefad> it is possible to do team play, right?
11:39:54  <hylje> yes
11:39:59  <Tefad> sweet.
11:40:11  <hylje> wtf you thought openttdcoop was doing
11:40:19  <Tefad> who what when where?
11:40:35  <hylje> oh, in that case nevermind
11:40:51  <Tefad> don't make me get the urine in your breakfast cereals
11:41:18  <hylje> go ahead, becuase i aint got any
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11:45:43  <peter1138> Celestar: svn
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11:50:31  <peter1138> hmm, the whole lot isn't working :/
11:50:48  <Celestar> because I'm blocking it
11:50:52  <Celestar> with an "svn log" command
11:51:09  <Sacro> ooh, ferensway reopened...
11:51:10  <Celestar> "kill -9
11:51:13  <Sacro> that'l make my life easier
11:51:20  <Celestar> peter1138: does it work now?
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12:00:36  <peter1138> Celestar: "the whole lot" being inclusive of tt-forums
12:00:41  <peter1138> it's not just svn that's broken
12:01:32  <Darkvater> it's down?
12:01:34  * Darkvater checks
12:02:05  <peter1138> well it's not working for me
12:02:19  <Darkvater> indeed it is
12:02:23  <Darkvater> I mean not working
12:07:36  <Darkvater> that settles whether we release 0.5 I reckon ;)
12:07:56  <Tefad> ; )
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12:11:16  <Rubidium> the wiki and translator still work :)
12:11:42  <Sacro> my website still works
12:11:56  <Ailure> I NEED MY FORUMS FIX
12:12:08  * Ailure twitches
12:12:13  <Darkvater> Rubidium: it's a different server
12:12:27  <Darkvater> eg forums/website/svn: TrueLight, wiki/translator: MiHaMiX
12:12:28  <Rubidium> I know
12:12:55  <Sacro> orudge`` hosts the forums doesnt he?
12:13:25  <Darkvater> yes, but on TL's hoster, or webserver or something
12:16:04  <Tefad> hoster heeh
12:18:01  <Ailure> heh
12:18:08  <peter1138> Darkvater: well it's back now, so you can release ;)
12:18:09  <Ailure> i want to make a huge multiplayer session D:
12:18:12  <peter1138> 0.5 RC1, of course
12:18:22  <Darkvater> can't commit :)
12:18:25  <Ailure> but I want to play together with people who knows what they do D:
12:18:29  <Ailure> but still plays invidually
12:18:30  <Darkvater> peter1138: we still need Rubidium's patch in
12:18:30  <Ailure> heh
12:18:39  <Ailure> wait
12:18:42  <peter1138> Rubidium: you heard it!
12:18:45  <Ailure> how long until 0.5 rc1? ;P
12:18:50  <Darkvater> peter1138: oh btw...until you had a connection, did you have any desyncs?
12:18:55  <Darkvater> I'm guessing not, but who knows
12:18:56  <peter1138> no
12:18:59  <peter1138> it's still running
12:19:02  <peter1138> i might try later
12:19:15  <peter1138> btw
12:19:17  <Ailure> I really hope it's efore duke nukem forever
12:19:25  <peter1138> do we want to fix the inflation issues for 0.5?
12:19:38  <Ailure> hmm
12:19:40  <Ailure> I never heard of any
12:19:41  <Ailure> <<
12:19:42  <Ailure> Explain?
12:20:00  <peter1138> yes boss
12:20:01  <Darkvater> peter1138: int32 overflow?
12:20:05  <peter1138> yeah
12:20:08  <Ailure> oh
12:20:09  <Ailure> hmm
12:20:13  <Darkvater> pff, not really
12:20:15  <peter1138> i think to fix it, we'd need to adjust the way inflation works
12:20:41  <peter1138> i.e. apply inflation to the result of the command, not to the values used by the command
12:20:44  <peter1138> hmm
12:20:47  <peter1138> but that might upset selling things
12:24:14  <Darkvater> it might upset a lot of things, and is more a balancing thing
12:25:37  <Ailure> wait what
12:25:57  <Ailure> I thought inflation was a single multiplier variable
12:25:58  <Ailure> >>
12:26:18  <Darkvater> slightly inconvenient that you can't do a think once stuff gets soo expensive
12:26:30  <Ailure> is it just me
12:26:35  <Ailure> or do some things inflate faster than others?
12:26:47  <Ailure> road vehicles seems to be less profitable later in the game
12:27:07  <Ailure> becuse I swear the running costs inflates faster
12:27:10  <Ailure> than the profits
12:27:11  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7505 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
12:27:11  <CIA-1> -Feature: show NewGRFs used on a game server, show which NewGRFs you do and do not have.
12:27:11  <CIA-1> -Feature: show NewGRF compatability of network games in the Game List window; a
12:27:11  <CIA-1> green square if you got the same OpenTTD version and have the needed NewGRF, a
12:27:11  <CIA-1> red square if the version does not match and a yellow square if the version
12:27:11  <CIA-1> matches, but the client is missing at least one of the NewGRFs.
12:27:29  <Ailure> nice
12:27:35  <Ailure> I like the recent newGRF features
12:27:46  <Sacro> :o
12:27:50  <Sacro> nice commit
12:27:53  <Ailure> now I can just hoard newGRFs, and never think twice about setting up the cfg before joining teh server
12:28:01  <Sacro> Ailure: indeed
12:28:11  <Sacro> i dont mind it on linux because i can symlink the data folder
12:28:13  <Ailure> before it could be a blind shot in the dark
12:28:24  <Ailure> and the server owner had to put up a page with all the newGRF's used and stuff
12:28:27  <Sacro> between nightly, peter, brianetta, and about 4 other nightly servers ive used
12:28:46  <Sacro> LOTR has some hot actresses
12:28:48  <Ailure> yeah openTTD coop comes to mind
12:28:54  <Ailure> I have a own folder for it
12:29:07  <Ailure> then one for miniin
12:29:16  <Ailure> then another for nightly newhouses branch (which is the one I use)
12:29:21  <Ailure> and openttd 0.4.8
12:29:22  <Sacro> hehe
12:29:27  <Sacro> i dont have stable
12:29:35  <Ailure> I have it for multiplayer purposes
12:29:44  <Ailure> but it's get harder and harder to use when you're used to the nightlies
12:29:49  <Sacro> yup
12:29:50  <Ailure> especially for newGRF stuff
12:29:59  <Darkvater> o/ Rubidium
12:30:00  <Ailure> UKRS works in it
12:30:11  <Darkvater> 99.8% done for 0.5RC1
12:30:11  <Ailure> but wagon replacment can't be done automatically on 0.4.8
12:30:14  <Ailure> which is annoying
12:30:25  <Sacro> Darkvater: and the last .2%?
12:30:52  <Darkvater> enabling changing (adding/removing) newgrf during gameplay in SP without having to start a new game WITH SEVERE WARNINGS
12:31:04  <Ailure>
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12:31:23  <Ailure> Is there anything on this roadmap that won't be in the release candite?
12:32:25  <Darkvater> ingame minimap, station statisticks, md5-cenario, custom bridgeheads
12:33:03  <Darkvater> who put md5 check for scenarios in there?
12:33:08  <Darkvater> never even heard about that
12:33:38  <Ailure> heh
12:34:08  <Ailure> I'm not even sure what it's good for
12:35:14  <Ailure> custom bridgeheads however?
12:35:24  <Ailure> I never ever heard what it's supposed to do
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12:39:30  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's pretty pointless, isn't it?
12:39:36  <peter1138> maybe someone thought it was necessary for multiplayer?
12:39:39  <peter1138> strange...
12:39:44  <Darkvater> the scenario? yeah it is
12:39:54  <Darkvater> the maps are transferred anyways
12:40:56  <Ailure> well
12:41:01  <Darkvater> no
12:41:23  <Ailure> it's not really necessary considering how multiplayer works now >_>
12:41:37  <Ailure> even if it manages to get corrupted, the game will instantly throw out the corrupted player anyway
12:41:41  <Ailure> when he joins
12:42:39  <peter1138> no, local maps are irrelevant
12:43:09  <Ailure> :o
12:43:14  <peter1138> Bociusz (New things to come)
12:43:15  <peter1138> he added it
12:43:18  <peter1138> he's done that before...
12:43:26  <peter1138> has no idea what's actually going on
12:43:49  <peter1138> wtf is the percentage thing, anyway...
12:44:13  <Ailure> haha
12:44:28  <Ailure> It's been in for a really long time as well
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12:46:05  <Darkvater> ah dear old bociusz
12:46:19  <Darkvater> I think he writes down his own wishlist or something ;p
12:46:54  <Ailure> heh
12:47:12  <Ailure> you didn't update that little table at the bottom... but it's understandable seeing that it's not dynamic. :/
12:47:29  <Ailure> hmm
12:47:32  <Ailure> added by a user called Miham
12:47:36  <peter1138> MiHaMiX loves his percentages
12:47:48  <Darkvater> ah man (OT)
12:48:00  <Darkvater> *spam*
12:48:02  <Darkvater> Many times, intrusions into privacy like this are excused on the basis that they offer discounts in exchange for your personal information. This is true with the Oyster card, too: a single ride on the tube costs £3 now if you use a paper ticket, but with an Oyster card the journey is as little as £1.30. The thing is, before they ramped up Oyster card use on January 1, the cost of a paper single was also as little as £1.10 -- in other words, they nearly
12:48:07  <Ailure> I admit a such table would be neat
12:48:27  <Ailure> but it's kinda hard to change as of now
12:48:42  <Ailure> you practically have to change alot in that table as soon there's a change
12:49:33  <Ailure> almost want to replace it with a quote of darkvater saying taht it's 99.8% done :p, though I won't do that
12:49:58  <Darkvater> :P
12:50:18  <Ailure> "NewGRF pre-join check"
12:50:24  <Ailure> I thought this was finished >_>
12:50:33  <peter1138> only just
12:51:25  <Ailure> heh
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12:58:40  <Sacro> -- in other words, they nearly : Dont leave us hanging Darkvater
13:01:41  <Darkvater> fuck, my svn up from an hour ago is still stuck
13:01:46  <Darkvater> can't get back my terminal :(
13:01:54  <Sacro> Darkvater: cant you kill it?
13:02:03  <Darkvater> with what?
13:02:10  <ln-> an axe
13:02:12  <Faux> Another screen session?
13:02:23  <Darkvater> it's a screen from a screen session
13:02:28  <Sacro> errm...
13:02:31  <Darkvater> I could log in again though and kill from there
13:02:48  <Faux> Ctrl+a k it?
13:02:50  <Sacro> does c_a c_k not work?
13:04:47  <Brianetta> cack?
13:04:48  <Brianetta> heh
13:05:05  <Darkvater> :O
13:05:11  <Darkvater> I locked my screen session
13:05:15  <Darkvater> newer new I could
13:05:45  <Ailure> newer new mew
13:05:59  <Brianetta> Sacro: Kill needs a capital K
13:06:00  <Ailure> and jay for taking a backup
13:06:03  <Ailure> and slow USB connection
13:06:04  <Ailure> xD
13:06:11  <Ailure> seems like it will take four hours in total
13:06:15  <Ailure> already been working for 90 min
13:06:20  <Sacro> Brianetta: does it? c-A c-K then
13:06:25  <Brianetta> No
13:06:33  <Brianetta> c-A s-K
13:06:45  <Sacro> s-K? ive always used c
13:07:00  <peter1138> c-a c-k doesn't so anything
13:07:07  <Brianetta> of course not
13:07:09  <Brianetta> safety
13:07:19  <peter1138> *do
13:07:40  <Sacro> Brianetta: d'oh, its s_k
13:07:42  <Sacro> or K
13:08:34  <Brianetta> Wow
13:08:40  <Brianetta> I just got split-screen (:
13:08:57  <Brianetta> Ctrl-A, S
13:09:03  <Ailure> TIME TO INVITE A BUDDY
13:09:05  <Brianetta> ten Ctral-A, Ctrl-I to switch
13:09:07  <Ailure> TO PLAY ON SPLITSCREEN
13:09:21  <peter1138> now join them again :)
13:09:22  <Ailure> haha
13:09:24  <Sacro> screen -x is always fun
13:09:27  <Ailure> that would be actaully funny
13:09:32  <Ailure> if someone made a splitscreen openTTD fork
13:09:42  <Sacro> lemmings on the amiga had that
13:09:47  <Ailure> some doom ports have splitscreen xD
13:09:58  <Sacro> and settlers II
13:10:00  <Ailure> I also remember preferring playing on invidual computers after actually trying it though...
13:10:10  <peter1138> just run two copies :p
13:10:13  <Ailure> haha
13:10:18  <peter1138> one as a server...
13:10:20  <Ailure> but you would need two mouse pointers somehow
13:10:24  <Ailure> too
13:10:31  <Ailure> that registers clicks invidually
13:10:57  <Ailure> and probably keyboard as well
13:11:07  <Brianetta> Ailure: XNest
13:11:14  <Brianetta> Or timeshare (:
13:11:43  <peter1138> use the "change player" cheat
13:12:07  <Brianetta> I can see that leading to fistcuffs
13:12:26  <Ailure> haha
13:12:33  <Ailure> I can imagine it now
13:12:36  <Ailure> 60 seconds sessions each
13:12:47  <Ailure> annoying as hell it would be
13:12:55  <Ailure> since the game is realtime
13:12:57  <peter1138> you try manual train control with that
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13:15:23  <Ailure> hmm
13:16:09  <peter1138> take it in turns with the AI
13:16:20  <peter1138> the AI gets 60 seconds of mad terraforming each player
13:16:32  <Darkvater> lol
13:16:43  <Ailure> belive me
13:16:51  <Ailure> the AI isn't for TTD
13:16:57  <Ailure> it was made for Rollercoaster Tycoon orginally
13:16:58  <Ailure> :P
13:17:04  <Ailure> Well, that's the illusion I get
13:17:05  <Ailure> lol
13:17:17  <Taikaponi> Rollercoaster Tycoon was great.
13:17:25  <Ailure> Seeing how it manages to do everything expect to make a effective line
13:17:30  <peter1138> except TTD came before RCT
13:17:36  <Ailure> I know
13:17:41  <Ailure> I was just being eh nevermind
13:17:50  * peter1138 ponders giving up on getting this samsung 20" display
13:17:59  <Darkvater> :(
13:18:04  <Ailure> such as the fact that that the AI uses the bridges in rather funny way
13:18:10  <Ailure> for some reason they prefer them really elevated now
13:18:27  <Ailure> and there's some other thigns that got broken
13:18:35  <Ailure> which is why I stated on the forum I want to give the AI a quick look someday XD
13:18:44  <Darkvater> Ailure: I think you are confusing Rollercoaster Tycoon and Locomoation AI
13:18:51  <Ailure> oh god
13:18:52  <Ailure> haha
13:18:55  <Ailure> I saw that AI
13:18:59  <Ailure> I kow for a fact
13:19:03  <Ailure> Rollercoaster have no AI at all
13:19:13  <Ailure> unless you count the pathfinding of the small guys walking around
13:19:16  <Ailure> as AI
13:19:17  <Ailure> then maybe
13:19:25  <Ailure> but I saw teh locomotion one
13:19:26  <Ailure> XD
13:19:35  <Ailure> which makes me glad that the AI can't do elevated stuff in openTTD
13:19:44  <Ailure> or else we would see cities covered in foundations by now
13:19:59  <Brianetta> An "AI can't terraform" switch would be nice
13:20:12  <Brianetta> I'm sure htey could cope with foundations on TGP landscapes
13:20:20  <Gonozal_VIII> what else would the ai do then?
13:20:29  <Brianetta> build on slopes
13:20:38  <Ailure> or at least
13:20:51  <Ailure> at least try to calculate what to do with a hill
13:20:54  <Ailure> before terraforming it
13:21:00  <Ailure> instead of throwing random() at it
13:21:02  <Brianetta> Ailure: That would involve a rewrite
13:21:16  <Brianetta> The AI isn't predictive
13:21:20  <Ailure> hmm true
13:21:22  <Ailure> yeah i know
13:21:22  <Brianetta> because it can't anticipate a human
13:21:31  <Ailure> as of now it acts like a alive being with the railroads
13:21:42  <Ailure> so it tries to connect two points by randomly crawling over the landscape
13:21:45  <Ailure> which leads to chaotic results
13:22:05  <Brianetta> It's the way a huge rectangular tract of land churns like the sea... then up from the depths, a serpent surfaces
13:22:12  <Brianetta> And lo, there was an AI route
13:22:23  <Ailure> hehe
13:22:29  <Ailure> reminds me about the classical image on some TTD site
13:22:35  <Ailure> with a lake being covered of bridges
13:22:48  <peter1138> i'm sure it never used to do all that swelling
13:23:08  <Ailure> or maybe I shouldn't bother with the old AI at all
13:23:16  <Brianetta> peter1138: It didn't
13:23:16  <Ailure> but I want to fix some of the bugs with the new AI
13:23:22  <Brianetta> It owuldterraform to build
13:23:30  <Brianetta> not terraform then decide to terraform
13:23:34  <Ailure> it works fine, apart from randomly stopping working after a few years
13:23:39  <Celestar> back
13:23:41  <peter1138> so someone's busted the AI
13:23:47  <Brianetta> peter1138: A loooong time ago
13:23:51  <Brianetta> like, 4000 revisions
13:23:54  <Ailure> yeah
13:23:56  <Ailure> both AI's infact
13:24:00  <Ailure> in orgianl TTD
13:24:03  <Ailure> a AI could become succeful
13:24:10  <Ailure> but in openTTD, they hardly survive five years
13:24:11  <Celestar> they could?
13:24:13  <Ailure> yeah
13:24:17  <Brianetta> Celestar: They could turn a profit
13:24:17  <Celestar> never noticed.
13:24:19  <Ailure> I remember it quite well
13:24:21  <Celestar> ok
13:24:27  <Celestar> but what broken and about when?
13:24:28  <Ailure> even have old games of that happening
13:24:33  <Ailure> no idea
13:24:38  <Ailure> might someone removed their handicaps
13:24:44  <Ailure> that they had
13:24:49  <Ailure> I never checked if they still have them
13:24:52  <Ailure> oh yeah, they have really strange bugs
13:25:07  <Celestar> they don't have bugs, they just have a dismal pathfinder
13:25:08  <Ailure> such as failing to remove old lines
13:25:12  <Darkvater> Celestar: have you used vararg macros with GCC?
13:25:19  <Darkvater> it doesn't want to play along :(
13:25:24  <Ailure> Celestar: Actually they do
13:25:27  <Ailure> and thoose bugs weren't there orginally
13:25:42  <Ailure> they sucked before, but they did survive at least D:
13:27:55  <Darkvater> OMG
13:28:15  <Darkvater> #define BLA(a, b, ...) bla(a, b, __VA_ARGS__)
13:28:30  <Darkvater> BLA(5, 4); << gcc craps out
13:28:51  <valhallasw> lol
13:29:02  <Darkvater> what kind of bullshit is this?
13:29:19  <Darkvater> test.c:11: error: expected expression before â)â token
13:29:55  <Aloysha> Darkvater: write it bla(a, b, ## __VA_ARGS__)
13:30:08  <Aloysha> hack to define it as optional
13:30:20  <peter1138> o_O
13:30:36  <Aloysha> dooo it
13:30:50  <Celestar> not tried yet.
13:31:18  * Darkvater wonders if it works in MSVC..
13:31:28  <Darkvater> this is totally stupid by gcc
13:31:29  <Aloysha> well, it works in gcc....
13:31:30  <peter1138> Darkvater: is BLA(5, 4) valid anyway?
13:31:31  <Darkvater> damn compiler
13:31:34  <Darkvater> of course
13:31:41  <peter1138> debugging nothing?
13:31:44  <Darkvater> DEBUG(misc, a, "Hello World!");
13:31:48  <Darkvater> instead of
13:31:52  <Darkvater> DEBUG(misc, a, "Hello World! %d", 5);
13:32:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: /join #gcc
13:32:08  <Celestar> ask the guys there
13:32:09  <peter1138> ah, so your example is different ;)
13:32:11  <Celestar> (same server)
13:32:23  <Darkvater> peter1138: no it's the same just 1 more argument :)
13:32:32  <peter1138> exactly. different. :P
13:33:48  <Darkvater> he
13:34:13  <Born_Acorn> <-- How much of that is official, and how much is added by desperate fans? :p
13:34:20  <peter1138> quite
13:34:46  <Celestar> Darkvater: have you browsed through the bug reports?
13:34:49  <Aloysha> there's four things left
13:35:36  <Darkvater> Celestar: dammit, now I'll get flamed ;p
13:35:43  <Celestar> why?
13:35:51  <Darkvater> cause I just asked there
13:36:00  * Celestar wants to witness that
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13:37:20  <Celestar> Darkvater: I don't see you getting flamed
13:37:34  <Celestar> Darkvater: can you paste the question here again?
13:38:22  <Darkvater> no, I'm just getting ignored
13:38:32  <Darkvater> 14:34 < Darkvater> Hi. I am using gcc 4.1.0 and have a problem with variadic macros... it doesn't work in all cases
13:38:35  <Darkvater> 14:34 < Darkvater> for example: #define FOO(a, b, ...) bar(a, b, __VA_ARGS__);
13:38:37  <Darkvater> 14:35 < Darkvater> if I call bar with FOO(1, 2) foor example gcc fails to compile :(
13:38:41  <Darkvater> 14:35 < Darkvater> FOO(1, 2, some, more, arguments) works
13:39:38  * Darkvater misses tron
13:39:41  <Darkvater> where is he anyways?
13:40:07  * Celestar kind of hopes he comes after bridges have been merged *runs*
13:40:23  <Aloysha> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:40:30  <Aloysha> ## __VA_ARGS__
13:40:45  <Aloysha> oh wait, didn't work in MSVC?
13:40:53  <Darkvater> donnu, don't have it here to test
13:41:10  <Darkvater> of course one can easily #ifdef MSVC it, but still....stupid gcc bug
13:41:20  <Darkvater> can't even correctly parse the source code
13:41:33  <Darkvater> and by the looks of it, this problem has been there for ages
13:41:46  <Aloysha> hellooo *pokes channel*
13:42:02  <Aloysha> oh
13:42:07  <Aloysha> hmm
13:42:30  <Aloysha> ## __VA_ARGS__ didn't work in gcc?
13:42:42  <Darkvater> it does
13:43:15  *** MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43:20  <Rubidium> "The C99 _VA_ARGS_ thing doesn't delete the ,"
13:43:23  <Darkvater> I hope the silence in #gcc means people are thinking very hard about my problem :)
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13:44:00  <kampasky> huh?
13:44:03  <kampasky> how is that a gcc bug?
13:44:06  <Aloysha> do you know the ## hack won't compile elsewhere?
13:44:27  <kampasky> FOO(a, b, ...) != FOO(a, b...)
13:44:37  <Rubidium> Darkvater: seems to be the same problem
13:44:42  <Darkvater> kampasky: how would it not be? It's the inituative thing to do to define such a function in this way
13:45:03  <kampasky>    If the identifier-list in the macro definition does not end with an ellipsis, the number of
13:45:07  <kampasky>    arguments (including those arguments consisting of no preprocessing tokens) in an
13:45:10  <kampasky>    invocation of a function-like macro shall equal the number of parameters in the macro
13:45:14  <kampasky>    definition. Otherwise, there shall be more arguments in the invocation than there are
13:45:17  <kampasky>    parameters in the macro definition (excluding the
13:45:18  <kampasky> pretty clear :)
13:45:20  <kampasky>    ...
13:45:22  <Darkvater> in english please
13:45:23  <kampasky>    ).
13:45:25  <kampasky> is what 6.10.3 of C99 says about it
13:45:36  <kampasky> you could argue that gcc could be less strict but it's hardly a bug, missing feature at best
13:45:40  <peter1138> silly question, but does it need to be a define?
13:45:48  <peter1138> hmm, yes
13:46:07  <Darkvater> if debuglvl > then debug(0
13:47:09  <peter1138> While it's true that the ellipsis must match a positive number of
13:47:09  <peter1138> arguments, this isn't necessarily a problem.  You just use "..." for
13:47:10  <peter1138> both the format string and its arguments.
13:47:15  <peter1138> is that possible?
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13:48:45  <Darkvater> you guys make no sense
13:50:38  <Darkvater> if I use "..." for the whole thing I lose the entire compulsory format one puts in there, not even speaking about losing the _debug_#level#_info pre-check
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13:52:06  * Rubidium has got to go, see you in a few hours...
13:52:16  <Darkvater> bye :)
13:56:26  <kampasky> ?
13:56:32  <kampasky> again, at least one parameter must come inst. of ...
13:56:36  <kampasky> so the format is still compulsory
13:56:42  <kampasky> that's what you're trying to solve in the first place, right?
13:57:10  <Darkvater> hmm, so put s into ... as well and pop it as vararg
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13:58:43  <Darkvater> that's still crap
13:59:42  <Darkvater> because for vsnprintf() format is now then also a 'va'
14:00:36  <peter1138> it has no type... so...
14:01:50  <peter1138> hmm
14:02:23  <peter1138> how about doing it the other way?
14:02:29  <peter1138> one macro for gcc
14:02:32  <peter1138> another for msvc
14:02:45  <Darkvater> gcc with ##__VA_ARGS__?
14:02:53  <Darkvater> hehe now I can bitch about gcc for a change ;p
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14:06:58  <hylje> Taikaponi: OMG PONIES !!!!11
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14:10:22  <Born_Acorn> Will bridges be in for 5.0, or will they forever be lost? D:
14:10:49  <hylje> D: i dunno
14:11:43  <Born_Acorn> "What can I do!"
14:12:11  <hylje> fix bugs?
14:13:04  <Born_Acorn> quiet you.
14:13:16  * Born_Acorn quietly shakes his fist in a threatening manner
14:13:35  * hylje has fixed one (1) bug
14:19:39  <Ailure> what bridges?
14:19:59  <hylje> bridge branch, you furry
14:20:28  <peter1138> 5.0
14:20:30  <peter1138> yay!
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14:23:19  <Darkvater> The C Standard specifies that at least one argument must be passed to the ellipsis, to ensure that the macro does not resolve to an expression with a trailing comma. The Visual C++ implementation will suppress a trailing comma if no arguments are passed to the ellipsis.
14:23:27  * Darkvater kisses msvc..sensible thing to do baby :)
14:24:54  <Tefad> uhm
14:24:57  <Tefad> O_o
14:25:37  * Darkvater tries something
14:26:47  <Darkvater> orudge``: open watcom 1.6 is out
14:33:52  <Darkvater> he..stupid me
14:33:58  <Darkvater> kampasky: thanks for the pointer
14:35:14  <Darkvater> void CDECL debug(const char *dbg, ...)
14:35:15  <Darkvater>   va_start(va, dbg);
14:35:15  <Darkvater>   s = va_arg(va, char*);
14:35:15  <Darkvater>   vsnprintf(buf, lengthof(buf), s, va);
14:35:20  <Darkvater> there, simple as that
14:45:35  <blathijs> :-)
14:50:44  <izhirahider> this new STR_NETWORK_GRF_MISMATCH is supposed to appear in uppercase in the game?
14:52:09  <Darkvater> yes, like all the other such messages
14:57:43  * peter1138 lols
14:58:02  <peter1138> spam that has a picture of internet explorers address bar
14:58:07  <peter1138> and asks you to type the url in
14:58:26  <blathijs> "the url" ?
14:58:37  <peter1138> within the picture
14:58:42  <Darkvater> hehe, looks funny in a non-IE browser ;)
14:59:06  <peter1138> "For Free Information Do not click, type in your browser"
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15:34:30  <CIA-1> glx * r7506 /trunk/ (genworld.c newgrf.c openttd.c): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add action 7/9/D variable 0x81 (current year)
15:39:16  <Ailure> but but
15:39:19  <Ailure> what's the bridge branch
15:39:24  <Ailure> (one hour later, I know)
15:39:34  <peter1138> it's a branch with bridges in it
15:39:57  <Ailure> Dosen't orginal TTD have bridges. </smartass>
15:40:06  <Ailure> I assume it's something that improves bridges
15:40:09  <Ailure> but i have no idea what :P
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15:43:27  <peter1138> heh
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15:49:23  <Darkvater> great, I need to compile svn by 1.4 for suse in repositories
15:49:24  <Darkvater> idiots
15:51:46  <blathijs> and you really need 1.4?
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16:03:31  <Brianetta> Darkvater hit the same svn pitfall that I did
16:03:35  <Sacro> Ailure: also known as "Bridges over everything"
16:03:41  <Brianetta> Silent config file upgrades
16:03:50  <Brianetta> only "fix" is to upgrade, say Tigris
16:04:48  <Brianetta> Stupid thing is, you need to compile the svn server just to get the client
16:05:21  <Sacro> ooh, tesco distribution centre coming
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16:05:56  <XeryusTC> magic bridges!
16:14:54  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
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16:15:03  <MeusH> heyah
16:15:05  <MeusH> heyah
16:15:20  <peter1138> twice!
16:15:39  <Biff> hi
16:15:45  <hylje> peter1138: common typo
16:15:59  <hylje> i think he hates us a lot ;)
16:16:03  <XeryusTC> the keys are like right next to each other!
16:16:31  <Biff> is there a reason why i cant buy a towns exclusive rights for more then one year?
16:16:39  <hylje> because its lame?
16:16:46  <Biff> however i can click it as much as i want
16:16:52  <hylje> thats a bug
16:17:12  <Biff> oh
16:17:38  <Biff> i prefered my fix :P t->exclusive_counter += 12;
16:18:39  <Biff> but its not really a bug either, else you would have to wait until it expires to do it again
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16:20:11  <Biff> and the configure-script doesnt run on ubuntu
16:21:31  <Sacro> signals in tunels is currently worked arround, like the signals on bridges.
16:21:31  <Sacro> it should be released in miniin in the next weeks.
16:21:32  <Sacro> :o
16:22:56  <Biff> Sacro: signals in tunnels, how does that work?
16:23:07  <Sacro> Biff: nfi
16:23:50  <Biff> okey
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16:35:08  <MeusH> define nfi please
16:36:08  <Biff> no further information
16:36:11  <Ailure> [17:05] <Sacro> Ailure: also known as "Bridges over everything"
16:36:12  <Ailure> oph
16:36:14  <Ailure> I heard about that
16:36:15  <Ailure> :)
16:37:11  <Brianetta> nfi = no f***ing idea
16:37:12  <Ailure> I think it works kind of like tunnels too ingame or something
16:37:17  <Ailure> so it allows things like
16:37:21  <Ailure> town buildings under the bridge
16:37:22  <Ailure> I think
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16:52:50  <MeusH> thanks
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16:54:01  <Sacro> Ailure: indeed
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17:10:03  <Belugas> a house under a bridge?  i'm not sure
17:10:39  <peter1138> they don't fit
17:10:49  <Ailure> I could imagine clipping issues
17:10:51  <Ailure> <_<
17:11:01  <Ailure> or whatever the proper term would be
17:11:02  <Ailure> i'm tired
17:11:16  <Ailure> I seen graphical oddites happening
17:11:24  <Ailure> fi you like put alot of bridges next to each other at diffrent heights
17:11:34  <Ailure> but it's in a such situation that's not likely to happen in the game
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17:27:29  <peter1138> hehehe
17:27:41  <peter1138> i'd like to see the ottd gui fit onto the iriver's displayu
17:27:47  <peter1138> it's something like 220 by 170 pixels
17:29:18  <hylje> :o
17:29:27  <hylje> 9300 has 640x200
17:29:35  <hylje> of nokia
17:30:14  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7507 /trunk/network_udp.c: -Fix (7505): the name of a GRF could be "", which causes a segmentation fault. So take the filename, which cannot be "", when the of the GRF name is "". Also check for "" length when receiving GRF names.
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17:40:20  <Ailure> well
17:40:29  <Ailure> a DS would be a more intresting device to put TTD on
17:40:37  <Ailure> PSP been done already
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17:41:36  <peter1138> heh
17:41:40  <Ailure> I dunno what you would need to scale down to make it work
17:41:43  <Ailure> to be honest
17:41:48  <Wolf01> ello
17:41:55  <Ailure> but it should be possible
17:42:07  <Ailure> the memory diffrence between thoose devices isn't as large as I orginally thought
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17:42:10  <Ailure> between PSP and DS i mean
17:42:52  <Ailure> but I really don'tk now about ARM based stuff
17:43:09  <Ailure> teh only Nintendo produced thing I have programmed for
17:43:12  <Ailure> is the NES :)
17:43:25  <Ailure> and I think you would require alot of work to port openTTD to that... if it's even possible
17:43:29  <hylje> at how many tiles does the cargo payment stop diminishing
17:43:43  <Wolf01> the arm7 is dedicated to 2D graphics, so you can use it as well to port ottd
17:43:57  <Ailure> and ARM is a powerful architure as well
17:44:14  <Ailure> and there's two processors on a DS
17:44:35  <Wolf01> the arm9 drives the touchscreen, audio and other nice features
17:44:56  <Ailure> hmm
17:45:02  <Ailure> wll I hadn't programmed for the DS
17:45:07  <Wolf01> and do the 3d job
17:45:07  <Ailure> I just know that the weaker processor
17:45:13  <Ailure> is the one used for GBA mode
17:45:48  <Ailure> but then
17:45:54  <Ailure> I can't imagine working on a DS being too hard
17:45:58  <Wolf01> i've some guides if you want
17:46:06  <Ailure> sometimes it's actually easier to work on a device
17:46:07  <Ailure> than let say
17:46:12  <Ailure> Direct-X with Windows API's
17:46:27  <hylje> windows APIs are a huge wtfs
17:46:27  <Ailure> The NES is another good example
17:46:30  <Ailure> It's a limited console
17:46:34  <Ailure> but it's not really hard to program for
17:46:37  <Ailure> if you know assembly
17:47:02  <Wolf01>
17:47:10  <Ailure> while you can do ARM code in assembly
17:47:11  <Wolf01> this is a good start
17:47:14  <Ailure> I belive most of it is done in C
17:47:25  <Ailure> well heh
17:47:32  <Ailure> one thing that would be useful
17:47:44  <Ailure> is a emulator working as good as possible
17:47:47  <Ailure> which might not be too hard
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17:47:59  <Ailure> since the DS emulators seems to handle homebrewn games that uses 2D stuff
17:48:14  <Ailure> and if I get started with a openTTD port
17:48:22  <Ailure> I probably get equipment to run it on the real thing as well
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17:49:15  <Ailure> Although I am curious how the PSP porters did
17:49:55  <Ailure> and i'm not sure what graphical format works best for DS XD
17:50:12  <Ailure> how are images stored in GRF files?
17:50:29  <peter1138> custom compression
17:50:39  <peter1138> but the game handles all that
17:50:56  <peter1138> and does 'manual' blitting
17:50:59  <Ailure> then you have to remember
17:51:03  <Ailure> on a PC
17:51:11  <Ailure> the game loads alot of stuff into RAM
17:51:22  <Ailure> while it's not really needed in cartdridge based games
17:51:37  <Ailure> some stuff can be read directly from ROM
17:51:53  <Ailure> stuff that won't change during gameplay :P
17:52:09  <Ailure> like vehicle stats
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17:52:44  <Ailure> on the GBA
17:52:51  <Ailure> there's severeal modes
17:52:57  <Ailure> there's a bitmap mode and a tilebased one
17:53:05  <Ailure> and the tile-based one is alot faster D:
17:53:10  <Ailure> but I have no idea what's the modes is on a DS
17:53:15  <peter1138> ah, but vehicle stats are modified by newgrf
17:53:26  <peter1138> and some of it is modified during a game
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17:54:25  <Ailure> hmm
17:54:30  <Ailure> newGRF might be a tricky thing
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17:55:19  <Ailure> becuse to be honest
17:55:24  <Ailure> I have no idea how newGRF actually works
17:55:39  <peter1138> also, sprites are stored, decompressed, in a cache in memory
17:55:48  <peter1138> (mostly)
17:56:03  <Ailure> it would be better for a DS port
17:56:04  <peter1138> basically these small systems are not worth it ;p
17:56:20  <Ailure> if there were a tool for uncompressing thoose :P
17:56:40  <Ailure> there's ways of getting around limitations
17:56:41  <Wolf01> what? signals on tunnels/bridges in miniIN?
17:56:46  <Ailure> I see it as a challange
17:57:15  <Ailure> but i'm almost afraid of axing away stuff D:
17:57:43  <peter1138> Wolf01: sounds like a twerp
17:57:59  <peter1138> Ailure: just compiling for the DS would be... interesting
17:58:12  <Digitalfox> peter: twerp??
17:58:15  <Ailure>
17:58:19  <Ailure> wow that was... not so helpful
17:58:23  <peter1138> an idiot
17:58:24  <Ailure> it explains how to change modes
17:58:25  <Ailure> XD
17:58:28  <Ailure> but not what they are
18:00:10  <MeusH> lol
18:00:30  <Ailure> I saw some other documentation explaining what thoose modes are
18:00:39  <Ailure> well I guess, the newer the hardware is
18:00:44  <Ailure> and the more reverse engineered it is
18:00:50  <Ailure> the more fragmented is the documentation for it
18:00:56  <Ailure> unless you find a leak... :)
18:01:01  <hylje> leek
18:01:08  <Ailure> Seriously
18:01:14  <Ailure> I forgot the makers of fire emblem
18:01:21  <Ailure> but they had their japanse server wide open
18:01:25  <Ailure> so people could download... XD
18:01:27  <Ailure> test roms
18:01:29  <Ailure> of music playing
18:01:31  <Ailure> and various SDK's
18:01:39  <hylje> "forgot"
18:01:56  <Ailure> it was hilarious becuse alot of it was only for licensed devolopers
18:02:47  <Ailure> It's like Microsoft would have a server
18:02:52  <Ailure> with the full Windows source code
18:02:55  <Ailure> with no passwords
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18:07:06  <Jango> mm, hello
18:09:59  <Sacro> Ailure: they DID didnt they?
18:10:28  <Ailure> they didn't
18:10:30  <Ailure> however a 3rd party
18:10:31  <hylje> windows source code is so hueg it can't be held on a single box
18:10:32  <Ailure> who got the soruce
18:10:37  <Ailure> leaekd it
18:10:43  <Sacro> 2000 got leaked
18:10:50  <Ailure> Microsoft sometimes let people to look through the source for various reasons
18:10:55  <Ailure> I have that leak
18:10:58  <Ailure> it's not the whole soruce
18:11:04  <Ailure> some people say it's just a service pack >>
18:12:27  <Ailure> it contained some hilarious comments
18:12:35  <Ailure> but it's unsure if thoose were there orginally or were planted
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18:35:53  <Sacro> e^pi( i ) + 1 = 0
18:35:55  <Sacro> hmm
18:35:58  <Sacro> !calc e
18:36:00  <_42_> Sacro: 0;
18:36:10  <Sacro> !calc e^pi(i) + 1
18:36:11  <_42_> Sacro: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=6): Function pi not defined.;
18:36:16  <Sacro> :i
18:36:20  <Sacro> thats no smily
18:36:20  <Sacro> :o
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18:37:02  <izhirahider> make it calculate consecutive digits of e :)
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18:56:14  <Darkvater> blathijs: it has --change flag
18:56:19  <Darkvater> blathijs: for subversion 1.4
19:00:42  <Darkvater> Brianetta:
19:00:44  <Darkvater> hehe ^^
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19:01:53  <Darkvater> he :(
19:01:57  <Darkvater> damn dependencies
19:02:01  * Darkvater knows why he hates linux
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19:12:47  <Darkvater> ok wtf?
19:12:55  <Biff> Darkvater: doesnt your packaging system fix your dependencies?
19:12:58  <Darkvater> is needed by subversion-1.4.0-11.5.i586
19:13:04  <Darkvater> is needed by (installed) OpenOffice_org-2.0.2-27.12.i586
19:13:07  <Darkvater> o_O
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19:13:23  <Darkvater> Biff: they don't have it in the repository so I need to install manually
19:13:39  <Biff> oh
19:13:53  <Biff> what are you installing?
19:14:56  <Darkvater> svn 1.4
19:15:24  <Biff> oh
19:15:38  <Darkvater> ha bitch
19:15:42  <Darkvater> it works :)
19:15:51  <Darkvater> tfarago@arrakis:/tmp> svn --version
19:15:51  <Darkvater> svn, version 1.4.0 (r21228) compiled Nov 15 2006, 21:10:42
19:16:27  <Darkvater> who rulez now!
19:17:13  <Biff> nice :p i'm happy with svn 1.3
19:17:32  <Noldo> Darkvater: what's new in it?
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19:43:53  <Darkvater> Noldo: --change
19:43:59  <Darkvater> is what I want ^^
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19:46:06  <Darkvater> Noldo:
19:46:08  <Darkvater> bbl
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20:01:51  <Sacro> oh noes, a Bjarni
20:01:59  <hylje> go awai
20:02:51  <Bjarni> do you realise how annoying it is to wait for a very important Email and each time the new mail sound is played, it turns out to be SVN or the TT forums???
20:04:13  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04:46  <blathijs> Darkvater: ah, that's quite a useful one, yes
20:05:11  *** ufoun_ [] has quit [Quit: ufoun_]
20:06:59  <Bjarni> no reply...
20:07:04  <Bjarni> is this thing on?
20:08:01  <Naksu> Bjarni: clearly not annoying enough
20:09:05  <Bjarni> ?
20:09:21  <Belugas> Bjarni, maybe you can implement some kind of filterting?  :)
20:09:24  <Belugas> helo, by the way
20:10:19  <Bjarni> I do filter, but since I didn't know what sound the expected Email would make, I had to check for each sound :s
20:17:54  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
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20:26:44  <CIA-1> glx * r7508 /branches/newhouses/ (35 files in 5 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r7471:r7507
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20:33:22  <Sacro> AMSTERDAM -- Dutch women are getting bigger breasts and 32 percent of them now have a D-cup or bigger compared with 20 percent five years ago.
20:35:06  <Bjarni> too many women get implants
20:35:42  <Bjarni> which is a pretty bad thing
20:35:55  <Sacro> yes
20:36:00  <Sacro> i much prefer natural breast
20:36:02  <Sacro> s
20:36:08  * Bjarni fails to see why we should allow women to torture themselves
20:36:12  <Bjarni> it can kill them
20:36:26  <Bjarni> an implant prevents X-ray from detecting cancer
20:37:14  <Bjarni> they are hard and can't move around like natural breasts, which means it's like walking around with a hard pillow or something, not to mention lying down in bed
20:37:19  <Rubidium> so they become a dieing race... survival of the fittest
20:37:23  <Sacro> silicon cant contract cancer...
20:37:53  <Bjarni> I didn't say that
20:38:03  <Bjarni> I said that they hide cancer if it's present
20:38:10  <Bjarni> that's not the same
20:38:14  <Sacro> yeah
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20:38:41  <Bjarni> also it adds problems to breast feeding
20:38:44  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
20:38:58  <Sacro> true
20:39:06  <Bjarni> and since boobs grow during pregnancy, it can go really wrong
20:39:19  <Bjarni> so why are people still doing it?
20:39:28  <hylje> boobs
20:39:44  <Bjarni> that's Sacro's line
20:39:52  <Sacro> mmmmmmmmm boobs
20:40:55  <hylje> i stole it
20:41:02  <Bjarni> but you didn't answer my question...
20:41:17  <Sacro> i dunno...
20:42:24  <Bjarni> maybe we should ask somebody with boobs
20:42:44  <Bjarni> whoever that might be in here
20:43:10  <Sacro> pass
20:48:12  <Bjarni> hehe, this reminds me of a story from New York. A woman got her lover signed in at a hospital as her husband so the insurance would pay for a penis enlargement operation (how is that a matter for the insurance anyway?). Her husband got a letter about his operation and he found out and the case was taken to court, but they had one big problem. The lover left the state and he naturally brought the evidence with him :D
20:49:29  <mikk36> erm
20:49:38  <mikk36> g++: command not found
20:49:45  <mikk36> what do i have to install ?
20:49:58  <Bjarni> g++ I guess
20:50:04  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Nah. dependencies
20:50:08  <Brianetta> Bah, I meant
20:50:13  <Bjarni> it's gcc, but for C++
20:50:22  <mikk36> erm
20:51:30  <Bjarni> but now that you mention it, I don't think the wiki is updated to tell about the dependancies for compiling the C++ part of the source. It was written when we only got C code
20:51:54  <mikk36> so.. what do i have to have installed ?
20:52:07  <Bjarni> good question
20:52:31  <mikk36> i have gcc
20:52:34  <Bjarni> on OSX, you install Xcode and that's it, but for other OSes.... I don't know what they call the packages
20:53:00  <Rubidium> I would say, search for g++ for you OS
20:53:36  <mikk36> gmm, gccg++
20:53:40  <mikk36> gcc-g++*
20:54:11  <mikk36> hmm
20:54:14  <mikk36> not listed
20:54:18  <mikk36> Suse 10.2
20:54:28  <Rubidium> no g++ ?
20:54:49  <mikk36> only gcc-c++'s
20:54:49  <Rubidium> for SuSE?
20:55:10  <mikk36> yes, suse
20:55:46  <Rubidium> well, then you should install that... I only think it's strange that they've renamed it
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20:58:53  <mikk36> yeap
20:58:56  <mikk36> helped
20:59:40  <mikk36> i installed bot gcc-c++ and gcc41-c++
21:03:12  *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-83-100-235-72.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:04:19  <mikk36> wootyeah :D
21:07:54  <mikk36> also...
21:08:14  <mikk36> it checks system language ? :P
21:09:45  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-237-168.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:31:31  <BFM> Finally... Half of my works internets is brokeneth :( I suspect the DNS settings are rooted, or something... no idea.
21:32:20  <Wolf01> try
21:38:14  <Bjarni> 	<mikk36>	it checks system language ? :P <-- yeah... once you finish writing that patch to do so :P
21:39:04  <mikk36> ??
21:39:14  <mikk36> erm
21:39:21  <mikk36> it took estonian automatically
21:40:24  <ln-> that's the normal behaviour of programs.
21:40:35  <Bjarni> hmm
21:40:38  <Bjarni> interesting
21:41:10  <Bjarni> and you are sure you didn't have an old openttd.cfg lying around where you already selected it?
21:41:55  <BFM> What's everyone up to on New Years Eve?
21:41:59  <ln-> selecting the initial language by locale is based on my patch. but currently it only works on Linux (and possibly other *nix, but not Mac OS X)
21:42:06  <Bjarni> at one time OpenTTD picked Czech on Czech computers if no config was found... the problem was that it did that as well for non-Czech computers :(
21:43:04  <ln-> well currently on non-Linux it always picks English even on non-English computers. is that any better?
21:43:24  <Bjarni> BFM: I tend not to go to bed before the noise of the fireworks allow sleep, so say 1-2 O'clock
21:44:03  <Bjarni> ln-: yeah, more people (of those, who manages to download our great game and got the original) understands English than Czech
21:44:07  <Biff> hmm, could anyone point me to where in the code the lights on a rail crossing are lit when a train comes?
21:44:29  <Bjarni> hmm
21:44:33  <Bjarni> checking
21:44:44  <Bjarni> I can remember what the code looks like, but the file...
21:44:57  <Biff> i have grep
21:45:00  <Biff> :p
21:45:36  <Biff> i just dont know the string(s) to search for
21:46:12  <Biff> oh, think i found it "/* Check if we were approaching a rail/road-crossing */"
21:47:24  <Biff> no, wait, that was only for ReverseTrainDirection
21:50:56  <Bjarni> ahh, somebody changed it since I last checked
21:51:09  <Bjarni> now it's: BarCrossing() in road_map.h
21:51:39  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:51:52  <Bjarni> and grep tells that it's used only at two locations
21:52:15  <Bjarni> train_cmd.c:3454
21:53:04  <Bjarni> and VehicleEnter_Road() in road_cmd.c
21:53:12  <Biff> ah, thanks
21:53:35  <Biff> trying to see if i can make the lights go on earlier
21:53:39  <Biff> atleast for fast trains
21:53:55  <Bjarni> and compared to the last time I checked this, the code is actually readable
21:54:42  <Bjarni> <Biff>	trying to see if i can make the lights go on earlier <-- so did I, but you have to think about what happens if the train turns away from the crossing before actually moving into it
21:55:19  <Biff> yup, the thought struck me when i found the reversetrain function
21:55:33  <Bjarni> if you just activate it say 3 tiles before the train reaches it and the train stops, turns around or go the "wrong" way in a switch, the crossing will never turn off
21:55:58  <Biff> yep, true
22:01:49  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:02:11  <Bjarni> if you are clever enough, you can get it to work
22:02:38  <Bjarni> but you need to talk to the pathfinder
22:02:51  <Bjarni> to figure out if the train is actually heading for the crossing
22:03:16  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
22:03:16  <Bjarni> hmm
22:03:31  <Bjarni> I just got another idea
22:03:46  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:03:50  <Biff> oh?
22:04:42  <Biff> yep, thought about the pathfinder, but if it decides to change path, it would also have to disable the crossing
22:04:44  <Bjarni> once a crossing is activated, it sets a byte (or less) to something and it subtracts 1 for each day. Once it reaches 0, it deactivates unless there is a train on the tile itself.
22:05:19  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
22:05:36  <Bjarni> and if a train tries to enter a crossing that's disabled, it should come to a dead stop, start the crossing and start moving after a moment
22:07:11  <Bjarni> also you can say place a special tile to activate the crossing and make a speed limit for the train between that tile and the road of say distance*X, where X is 40 MPH or something
22:07:54  <Bjarni> but there should be a penalty for activating crossings that deactivate without a train crossing it
22:08:21  <Bjarni> you know, people tend to be upset at the railroad that always activates the crossings without reason
22:08:41  <Bjarni> what do you say to this?
22:08:56  <guru3> without a contextual reference it makes no sense?
22:09:38  <Bjarni> you didn't get this at all?
22:09:47  <guru3> wasn't reading from the start
22:09:51  <guru3> just read that last line
22:10:16  <Bjarni> ahh
22:10:46  <Bjarni> Biff wants to make crossings activate earlier, so I brainstormed on possible stuff to do about that issue
22:11:02  <guru3> that'd be cool
22:11:08  <guru3> keep the cars from getting whacked
22:13:14  <Bjarni> also it means you need to think a bit more about how to build your rails as my idea don't work well with branches. If the train turns in a switch before crossing the road, the crossing will time out, deactivate and you will get some sort of penalty for activating it without reason
22:13:30  *** Aloysha [] has joined #openttd
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22:13:46  <Bjarni> we do need to figure out how to prevent people from adding a zillion crossings to a railroad belonging to another player
22:14:04  <guru3> yeah that'd be evil
22:14:07  <Biff> yes, im thinking it would be easier to make it work only when there are no branches of the rail
22:14:10  <guru3> but say you have a line running thru a town
22:14:31  <guru3> would it be possible to check if the road goes anywhere?
22:14:45  <Biff> yep, when you have a line that goes through a town there are probably no branches
22:14:53  <Bjarni> sure, but... it would demand more CPU time
22:15:00  <guru3> if someone builds random road over your line
22:15:07  <guru3> like check if there are any busses on it
22:15:13  <guru3> regular traffic sort of thing
22:16:57  <Biff> well, the crossing could be marked with a decreasing counter like Bjarni said, could give some indication of the traffic
22:17:08  <Bjarni> checking is there are any vehicles on the crossing means looping all vehicles for each check. We should not add that for all crossings for each tick. It's just too slow
22:17:27  <Bjarni> oh you mean rail traffic?
22:17:57  <Bjarni> the counter is set to 0 once the crossing deactivates. It's just a timeout to figure out if the train never arrived for some reason
22:18:05  <guru3> i meant road
22:18:08  <Bjarni> prevents people from abusing this to block roads forever
22:18:45  <Biff> or maybe it could share the signal block with the train?
22:19:04  <Biff> so the signal block goes red if there is a car crossing
22:19:25  <Bjarni> no, because then you place the signal 30 tiles away and the crossing activates way too early or you place a signal next to the crossing to hit cars
22:19:46  <Bjarni> now that sounds logically.... trains stops for cars
22:20:01  <Biff> not very
22:20:18  <Bjarni> not only will it be really easy to annoy other players, it would also be highly unrealistic
22:20:50  <Biff> yep, and it wouldnt work, if its eg a single railway without signals
22:25:30  <Bjarni> well, if you would like to know how they work in real life, just say so
22:25:52  <Bjarni> if not, I will not give a long explanation, as it would be a waste of time ;)
22:26:32  <Biff> well, i know that was a bad idea from me =)
22:27:03  <Biff> well, they are automatic in real life atleast, arent they?
22:27:21  <Biff> always figured they had a sensor some kilometres before the crossing
22:27:44  <Bjarni> distance depends on line speed ;)
22:29:36  <Bjarni> when the crossing activates, is marked safe (everything works and barriers are in place) and then the signal for the train shows clear to go. The driver need to get that signal at least 1800 meters from the crossing if he is driving 140 km/h
22:29:54  <Bjarni> for 75 km/h, it's just 450 meters
22:30:44  <Biff> whats the stopping lenght for a train at 140km/h?
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22:31:16  <Bjarni> in worst case, 1800 meters
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22:31:48  <Bjarni> with good conditions and modern brakes, around 1000 meters
22:31:51  <Biff> not bad
22:32:04  <Biff> they have brakes on all the wagons?
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22:32:18  <Bjarni> yeah
22:32:36  <Bjarni> but stopping that fast risk breaking wheels and tracks
22:32:56  <Biff> ah, so it can derail?
22:33:09  <Bjarni> no, they just break, like they get uneven
22:33:13  <Biff> but that means a fully loaded train can stop faster then an empty one?
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22:34:10  <Bjarni> no, at full load, the mass to stop is bigger, so the braking distance will be longer (if changed)
22:34:35  <Biff> true, but it should have greater friction
22:35:40  <Bjarni> but adding cars can reduce braking distance. They just need to brake better than the rest of the train since the resulting braking distance is kind of the average of all cars (not the average, but close to)
22:36:11  <Bjarni> you can't really use the increased friction to anything when braking
22:36:41  *** BFM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:36:45  *** BFM_ is now known as BFM
22:36:56  <Bjarni> because it's like you double the braking power if you triple the weight (freight car) so the resulting braking distance is increased
22:39:52  <Biff> i see
22:40:05  <Biff> you know alot about trains ;)
22:43:22  <Bjarni> I know ;)
22:46:42  <Smoovious> either trains, or physics
22:46:54  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
22:47:34  <Smoovious> there isn't a big friction window with trains to begin with, so it doesn't take much force before you overcome friction and have wheelslip issues
22:48:43  <Smoovious> also gotta figure, the more cars on the train, the longer it takes for the brakes to apply, since the engines have to fill or empty the brake line for the entire train (depending on which braking method in use), and the longer the train, the longer the brake line, and the longer it takes
22:49:09  <Bjarni> yeah
22:49:26  <Smoovious> if it wasn't for the rails, trains would be jacknifing all over the place during braking
22:49:33  <Bjarni> it's easy to drive day 30 meter long trains, but when they are longer than 100 meters, you have to think about it
22:49:36  <Smoovious> since the front brakes first
22:49:44  * Smoovious grins.
22:49:51  <Smoovious> yeah, when you wanna stop, ya gotta plan ahead
22:50:56  <Bjarni> the most tricky part is to get it to brake just as much as you want it to do since you apply and wait to see the result
22:51:34  <Bjarni> depending on how even the train brakes (do all cars brake equally good) and brake system, this can be hell
22:53:12  <Smoovious> yeah... there have been a couple train simulators I've used in the past... and for a while I was either never braking enough, or locking up the brakes so hard, I came to a full stop before reaching the signal/station
22:54:01  <Bjarni> modern trains do have electronic controlled brakes to apply faster and it makes it easier to apply them as they also prevents wheelship or wheeljamming or whatever it's called
22:55:22  *** luckz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:55:30  <Bjarni> 	<Smoovious>	yeah... there have been a couple train simulators I've used in the past... and for a while I was either never braking enough, or locking up the brakes so hard, I came to a full stop before reaching the signal/station <--- then try real life and get a 92 meter train to fit in a 95 meter block
22:55:43  <Bjarni> now that's tricky
22:57:01  <Bjarni> btw simulators are totally different because then you can't feel on your body how hard you are braking
22:57:15  <Smoovious> I'd LOVE to... but I never got the chance... back in the day when I was applying for railroad work, they just weren't hiring... you had to know someone to get your foot in the door... now, I'm just not able to
22:57:30  <Smoovious> yeah, I know... they'll never replace the real thing, but for training, they have their use
22:57:30  <Bjarni> too fat?
22:58:04  <Bjarni> they started firing people if they are too fat and don't lose weight because they are afraid of heart attacks and so on
22:58:16  <Smoovious> well, I have some extra weight, but that came on when I stopped unloading trucks for a living, but still ate like I was. :D not a big deal working it off again, did it before... but I'm thinking more of a marijuana posession charge I had a few years ago :P
22:58:42  <Smoovious> nah, I'm still in good enough shape... I bike all over the city... 20 miles a day isn't unusual
22:58:57  <Smoovious> I could be in better shape tho
22:59:13  <Bjarni> marijuana....
22:59:24  * Bjarni stops talking to the corrupted individual
22:59:35  * Smoovious chuckles.
22:59:44  <Bjarni> terrorist supporter
22:59:54  <Bjarni> that's actually how they fund their "work"
22:59:56  <Smoovious> bullshit... it was homegrown. :D
23:00:03  *** luckz [] has joined #openttd
23:00:22  <Bjarni> hmm
23:01:06  <Bjarni> so the fact that you spent ages nursing for it would make it a lot more like "I didn't really think about what I was doing and I never did it before" more likely?
23:01:57  *** BJH2_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
23:02:01  <Smoovious> not sure what exactly the question is asking, but no, I knew what I was doing...
23:02:12  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
23:02:30  <Smoovious> I believe in responsible use... never drive, work, or do other things if I smoked... same rules I use for drinking
23:02:40  *** BFM [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]]
23:03:00  <Bjarni> smoking stuff like that makes your semen nearly unusable for a whole week
23:03:20  <Smoovious> that's ok, I seldom have a use for it anyways
23:03:26  <Bjarni> which gives you an idea of how long it takes to leave the body
23:03:53  <Bjarni> also it makes me wonder how well it can gain afterwards if "attacked" like that over and over
23:05:09  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:31  <Smoovious> well, it isn't like I smoke every day, every week, years straight like a lot of stoners I know... I seldom drink and I seldom smoke... I'd have to say, in the past 4 years, I got drunk probably 20 times, and toasty about 10 times...
23:06:24  *** BFM [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
23:06:31  <Smoovious> new years, my birthday, 4th of july, a couple halloween parties, etc...
23:06:33  * Sacro_ is eating toast now
23:10:39  <Bjarni> then you got drunk probably 20 times, and toasty about 10 times more than I did
23:11:12  * Smoovious nods.
23:11:32  <Smoovious> nothing wrong with occasional responsible use... and nothing wrong with no use either
23:12:02  <Smoovious> now if I had the kind of job where I had to abstain from everything, that'd be a different story... airline pilot for example
23:12:17  <XeryusTC> gn
23:12:19  <Bjarni> or train driver
23:12:19  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
23:12:20  <Smoovious> train operator... etc
23:12:58  <Bjarni> heh, I read that as "now if I had a job" and I was about to make a because of weed reply... :P
23:13:01  <Sacro_> i thought airline pilots did drink...
23:13:05  <Bjarni> they do
23:13:14  <Smoovious> yeah, that'd be a different story and I wouldn't be drinking or smoking at all...
23:13:33  <Smoovious> some do, Sacro_... and some have got in bad trouble for it... a few even made the national news
23:14:07  <Sacro_> yep
23:14:38  <Smoovious> no, I don't have a job right now 'because of weed'... I don't have a job right now 'because my mom's blind housemate had his leg amputated and she needs extra help to take care of him, who can be around full time for him'
23:15:39  <Smoovious> so it was either she quits her top-pay nursing job of 30 years, or I quit my average-pay shipping/receiving job of 4 years during layoff season... it was no contest
23:15:57  <Bjarni> some Indian airline had a plane leaving India a few years ago and while it was in mid air, the two pilots got into a violent fight and the plane were on autopilot all the time or it would have crashed
23:16:06  <Bjarni> the pilots didn't care and got fired
23:16:21  <Bjarni> and I think they were charged for violating safety as well
23:16:22  <Smoovious> yeah, that's just insane... they shouldn't have had licenses in the first place
23:18:01  <Bjarni> how will you test if a pilot will attack the other pilot?
23:18:11  <Darkvater> peter1138: sleeping yet?
23:18:16  <Bjarni> if everything else is ok, how will you know?
23:18:18  <Darkvater> bleh, too late to do any coding :(
23:18:49  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I'm not even though I planned to go to bed early, but a certain task prevented me from doing so :s
23:18:54  <Bjarni> and I'm not talking about IRC
23:19:30  <Bjarni> Darkvater: btw what happened to the plan for 0.5.0?
23:19:50  <Darkvater> nothing, just a thing is missing and didn't have time to do it
23:19:57  <Darkvater> so it's prolly tomorrow then for RC1
23:20:13  <Bjarni> ok
23:20:34  <Smoovious> well, there is no specific 'test' for it, but you can figure out a lot how a person controls himself, just by observing how he controls himself
23:21:35  <Bjarni> Smoovious: the thing is, sometimes even the best observation fails to detect everything
23:21:46  <Smoovious> nothing you can do about some countries' licensing standards tho
23:22:18  <Bjarni> it's way too easy to get a driver license and way too hard to lose it
23:22:24  <Bjarni> makes the roads really unsafe :(
23:22:38  <Smoovious> yeah, I'll agree with that...
23:22:51  <BFM> What country?
23:22:57  <Bjarni> all of them
23:23:01  <Smoovious> I know a few people I will never get into a car with...
23:23:21  <Smoovious> the US is certainly way too easy
23:23:24  <Bjarni> train drivers have to pass a test every 4th year or they are forced to stop driving
23:23:48  <BFM> Australia is different... currently changing it's laws to tougher licencing... but so far, they've only quadrupled the COST of getting a licence. Kids are still dying in hi-powered Skylines etc.
23:23:49  <Smoovious> I think a person shouldn't get a drivers license unless they pass 100% of the test...
23:23:59  <Darkvater> gn all
23:24:02  <Smoovious> I saw so much crazy shit when I was driving a cab
23:24:13  <Bjarni> but for cars, it's ok if you passed a test when you were 20 and if that person is 70 now.... the traffic and signs really changed in the past 50 years and nobody told the new rules to that driver
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23:24:19  <Bjarni> night Darkvater
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23:24:33  <BFM> lol, Smoovious, front row seats to people sticking it in eh? Bah, you'd have to clean up aftwards though :(
23:24:40  <Smoovious> should have to retake the test at least every 10 years
23:25:09  <Bjarni> taxi driver, eh?
23:25:24  <Bjarni> then you run red lights and drive 70 where the limit is 50, right?
23:25:28  <Smoovious> yeah, did that for a few years... loved it, would like to do it again
23:25:31  <Smoovious> hell no
23:25:50  <Bjarni> then you aren't like the taxi drivers here
23:25:51  <Smoovious> taxi drivers who do that don't stay taxi drivers for long...
23:26:01  <Bjarni> amazingly they do here :(
23:26:38  <Smoovious> most of us don't take those kinds of chances with our livelihood... here in Michigan, you get your license revoked when you get 8 points on your license within 6 years... but you lose your taxi license at 6 points
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23:27:40  <Bjarni> and how hard is it to get a point?
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23:28:12  <Smoovious> well, if you get a ticket for going 5-9 mph over the speed limit, that's a point... do it in a construction zone, that's another point, plus your fines are doubled...
23:28:22  <Smoovious> get caught doing 70 in a 55 zone, 3 points right there
23:28:49  <Bjarni> now that actually sounds like it's a system that got a chance of working
23:28:52  <Smoovious> cause an accident? that's 2 points just for that, not counting what else you get connected to it...
23:29:24  <Bjarni> here you have to go 70% faster than the limit to get a point
23:29:40  * Smoovious nods.
23:30:10  <Bjarni> still some people manage to get the 3 points it takes to be forced to take another test
23:30:22  <Smoovious> so, say I'm tooling down the freeway at 100kph, I won't even get a point until I reach 170kph?
23:31:08  <Bjarni> there is a special rule that nomatter what the speed limit is, if you go 160 or faster, it's will not affect the point system, but it will act like you got 3 points
23:31:30  * Smoovious nods.
23:31:35  <Bjarni> so if you already got some, they will not go away even if you pass the test
23:32:06  <Smoovious> different states here have different rules...
23:33:00  <Bjarni> you also get a point if you run a clearly red light (didn't just change, but really red) or pass a railroad crossing when signs of an incoming train is given
23:33:09  <Bjarni> people fail that
23:33:21  <Bjarni> I don't get how people can fail that, specially the last one o_O
23:34:02  <Smoovious> yeah, that's something that needs to be done... better RR crossing protection... they keep complaining about how much it would cost... yet there are places like Chicago, who seem to have no trouble gating both sides of the road, and also lowering small gates at the sidewalk too
23:34:11  <Bjarni> the only really serious accident with a vintage train in Denmark was a guy, who failed to stop at a crossing even though it was fully working and the train hit him with 90 km/h
23:34:19  <Bjarni> the car were 10 cm wide afterwards
23:34:22  <Smoovious> so what if it costs money... everything costs needs to be done, just do it
23:35:43  <Bjarni> a lot of people aren't careful anymore
23:35:44  <Smoovious> at least the one good thing about most of our signals here right now is if we have a power outage, the affected signals automatically lower and stay lit the whole time...
23:36:17  <Bjarni> you mean they got batteries?
23:36:28  <Smoovious> most of em do, yeah
23:36:34  <Bjarni> nice
23:36:36  <Smoovious> can't speak for other locales tho
23:37:04  <Smoovious> they have electronic bells instead of the old glanging bells, and at the top, small solar panels keeping them charged up...
23:37:19  <Smoovious> got rid of the old lighting, and the lights are LED based now
23:37:57  <Bjarni> we got some railroad crossings that can run on battery as well. I heard a story about one, that was cut off for a really long time and it was tricky to fix the problem so as a result, they added a mobile generator to it to ensure that it would keep working
23:38:06  <Smoovious> well, I take some of that back... it is the CSX lines around here like that now (old Chessie System)... the Norfolk Southern line (old Conrail) and the old GT line still have the older signals
23:38:42  <Smoovious> except in a couple crossings where they were replacing the grade anyways
23:39:02  <Smoovious> but CSX went through replacing signals specifically... not just when they got around to it like the other two
23:39:20  <Bjarni> it's really expensive to replace, build and maintain crossings
23:39:22  <Smoovious> they're better... but they're still not as good as they could be
23:40:06  <Smoovious> yeah, but it is more expensive to build and maintain trains. :) so they should be able to put it in the budget, and adjust their revenue and operating costs appropriately
23:40:07  <Bjarni> I would not pay for replacing an old crossing if they aren't a lot cheaper to operate
23:40:13  <Smoovious> just cost of doing business
23:40:54  <Bjarni> crossings are so expensive to maintain that it's actually sane to invest in a bridge for the road instead
23:41:11  <Smoovious> true... not always practical tho...
23:41:24  <Smoovious> especially through the city
23:42:09  <Bjarni> I think it's something like 0k each year for each crossing if nothing breaks and then we got the adding stuff when something breaks and needs to be fixed
23:42:38  <Bjarni> but it depends on what level of safety you want
23:42:39  <Smoovious> here, I think the city takes some of the cost of that too...
23:42:47  <Smoovious> after all, they're both using it. :D
23:43:24  <Bjarni> crossings where the train just use the horn and there is a sign on the road saying "look out for trains" are somewhat cheaper
23:43:27  <Bjarni> but less safe
23:43:37  * Smoovious chuckles, "somewhat. :D"
23:44:07  <Smoovious> tho it should occasionally take care of that idiot who always insists on driving down the street, thumping his hip-hop all the time day and night
23:44:11  <Bjarni> they are most often used for really local traffic, like access to a single house
23:44:34  <Smoovious> yeah, or an endpoint, where the train would be crawling along anyway
23:44:43  <Bjarni> or both
23:45:42  <Bjarni> we got a forest around here with a lot of crossings like that. They are only used for the people, who cut trees (and they get special instructions) and people visiting the forest either on foot or on bikes
23:45:57  <Bjarni> no lumberjacks have ever been hit
23:46:31  <Bjarni> but some people are just so stupid that avoiding hitting them is an impossible task
23:47:06  <Smoovious> yeah, but in their defense, lumberjacks are used to always being aware of their surroundings too... a lumberjack with blinders on isn't a lumberjack for very long
23:47:30  <Bjarni> I mean, I saw this guy. He was jogging though the forest and came close to the railroad. He didn't watch out for trains and appeared to ignore the horn and was less than a meter from getting hit
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23:48:19  <Bjarni> how do you protect the railroad from having accidents with people like that???
23:48:27  <mikk36|lap> Bjarni, why is browsing SVN so slow ?
23:48:36  <Smoovious> did you ever see this video, about a commuter rail station... one train was stopped,,, another train unseen, was coming through (probably express), and there were people crossing over the tracks... and one lady didn't look until it was too late, and got hit...
23:48:53  <Bjarni> mikk36|lap: I don't know
23:49:13  <Smoovious> not exactly sure what kind of engines they were, but they reminded me of the old streamlined A/B unit type engins
23:49:24  <Bjarni> Smoovious: yeah, but I try not to think about it
23:50:24  <Bjarni> I know about a lot of accidents and close encounters, but if I think about them all the time...
23:50:33  <Bjarni> I mean what should I be able to do about it?
23:50:45  <Bjarni> and I should still be driving
23:50:56  <Smoovious> the couple engineers I know do a lot of drinking on their off days... one of em was telling me that every run he makes, he sees so many people taking chances... the stress gets to him so much he was in therapy, and he was probably going to quit in a couple years...
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23:51:36  <Smoovious> he isn't the same guy he was when we met, before he became a driver...
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23:51:41  <Smoovious> took a lot out of him...
23:51:47  <Bjarni> I know of a railroad, who hit 3 people in 2 years and they all died.... against all odds, it was the same driver each time
23:53:04  <Bjarni> I think about it like we can't safe all morons and if I ever hit anybody, it's a moron... what else can I do?
23:53:46  <Bjarni> if there is a person on the tracks 100 meters in front of me and it takes 400 meters to stop and the person ignores the horn, there is nothing to do
23:53:56  <Bjarni> luckily that never happened to me
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23:55:18  <Smoovious> yeah... but it doesn't stop you from the pain of it... watching it happen, seeing it coming, and not being able to do a damned thing about it but watch and blare the horn
23:56:14  <Smoovious> can you believe some people actually blame the train operator for not swerving out of the way, and just don't get why they can't no matter how you try to explain it to them? (wanna take their license from them and chop it up with scissors)
23:56:38  <Smoovious> smoke brb
23:56:39  <mikk36|lap> Bjarni, u're a train-driver ?
23:56:58  <Bjarni> only as a hobby
23:57:12  <mikk36|lap> explain pls
23:57:58  <Bjarni> if you do it commercially, you get some fine new trains, if you do it as a hobby, then you got some old junk with historical value to fix before they can drive
23:58:54  <Bjarni> but they can actually be fixed into becoming somewhat reliable and look great
23:59:08  <mikk36|lap> a suggestion about menus
23:59:15  <mikk36|lap> for example in tgp menu
23:59:23  <mikk36|lap> if i click a selection rolldown
23:59:38  <mikk36|lap> it would be nice if i click somewhere else
23:59:51  <mikk36|lap> somewhere else while the else is not a button
23:59:56  <mikk36|lap> and that the rolldown would then close

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