Log for #openttd on 21st December 2006:
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00:05:52  <mikk36> hey
00:05:59  <mikk36> anyone smart here with apache and cgi ?
00:09:49  <Naksu> never
00:10:06  <Naksu> hahahahah
00:10:12  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- very not smart
00:10:15  <Naksu> wrong channel
00:11:59  <Darkvater> I think it's too late for development ;p
00:12:20  <Darkvater> so I bid you farewell :)
00:12:35  <Rubidium> <- should fix those duplicates I just showed
00:12:41  <Naksu> it's never too late for development
00:13:05  <Naksu> same thing with drunkenness
00:13:20  <Naksu> you're never too drunk to code mission-critical systems
00:13:41  <Rubidium> Darkvater: <- as far as I am aware, cargo-packets/passenger destinations is _not_ in MiniIN
00:14:06  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7521 /trunk/ (openttd.c waypoint.c waypoint.h): -Codechange: Rename UpdateAllWaypointCustomGraphics to AfterLoadWaypoints to be more conforming with other such functions.
00:15:06  <Rubidium> I presume he is either using passenger destinations patch or Quarks mega-patch
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04:15:06  <Smoovious> <Naksu> you're never too drunk to code mission-critical systems <--- yeah... that's what syntax-checkers are for
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09:08:38  <Darkvater> morning
09:10:50  <peter1138> hi
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09:18:06  <Darkvater> brb
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09:36:54  <peter1138> russian has no plural attribute still
09:37:11  <peter1138> i understand it's supposed to be '6'
09:40:51  <Darkvater> peter1138: << just your approval waiting :)
09:41:04  <Darkvater> (forget gfx.c)
09:41:36  <Darkvater> (and newgrf_config.c)
09:42:25  <Darkvater> only questionable thing about the patch is how I did the ReloadNewGRFData part
09:42:53  <Darkvater> function in openttd.c, declared in newgrf.h and an additional function to reset vehicleposhash
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10:08:56  <BFM>
10:09:52  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7522 /trunk/newgrf_config.c:
10:09:52  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Have CopyGRFConfigList clear the destination list before assigning
10:09:52  <CIA-1>  values to it. This cuts down on memleaks which could exist when the function was
10:09:52  <CIA-1>  not used carefully.
10:11:55  <peter1138>
10:11:56  <peter1138> o_O
10:12:51  <Darkvater> lolol
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10:17:17  <BFM> lolz
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10:29:21  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7523 /trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
10:29:21  <CIA-1> -Feature: Add the possibility to change the newgrf configuration of a running game.
10:29:21  <CIA-1>  This is only possible in SP (or in the intro menu). During game play you will
10:29:21  <CIA-1>  get a confirmation window when applying the changes as some actions can crash
10:29:21  <CIA-1>  OpenTTD and/or make your current game unplayable.
10:29:52  <Darkvater> 99.8%
10:30:06  <Rubidium> Darkvater: ?
10:30:32  <Darkvater> hmm, let's see
10:31:01  <Darkvater> what's it do? besides the obvious function-name :)
10:31:45  <Rubidium> remove duplicates when you have explicitly selected a GRF in the GUI/saved it in the savegame and it gets implicitly selected via newgrf-static
10:32:06  <Rubidium> basically what happened with
10:32:07  <Darkvater> where is it removed from?
10:32:26  <Darkvater> from the savegame or from newgrf-static?
10:32:35  <Darkvater> cause I don't think it should be removed from either one
10:32:39  <Rubidium> neither
10:32:48  <Rubidium> when the savegame and newgrf-static are
10:32:56  <Rubidium> 'joined' into _grfconfig
10:33:18  <Darkvater> but when you save the game you save _grfconfig
10:33:20  <Rubidium> then the duplicates are removed from _grfconfig
10:33:33  <Rubidium> yes, but only the non-statics
10:33:47  <Rubidium> and because you add the statics later, those get removed from _grfconfig
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10:35:15  <Darkvater> so non-static are removed from grfconfig and you end up saving the static grf in your savegame?
10:35:49  <Rubidium> uhm... oops, it is done the other way around; the statics are removed :)
10:37:29  <Darkvater> hmm donnu; do we want that?
10:38:01  <Darkvater> would it not be preferred to check also for static when you press 'add'?
10:38:24  <Rubidium> no
10:38:34  <Darkvater> why?
10:39:05  <peter1138> non-static should override static
10:39:11  <peter1138> if it's in both, we should ignore the static variant
10:39:17  <peter1138> it could have different parameters, for example
10:39:34  <Rubidium> I want to be able to tell that my network game _must_ be played with Dutch Catenaries and that I would like to use Dutch Catenaries when playing a network game served by someone else
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10:39:53  <peter1138> yes
10:41:13  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7524 /trunk/lang/ukrainian.txt: -Fix: remove empty strings that should not have been empty from the Ukrainian language file.
10:41:37  <peter1138> is that still happening?
10:44:14  <Rubidium> it's already two weeks ago this got commited
10:44:49  <Rubidium> and a later commit of the webtranslator did not fix it, but I don't know whether it won't be added again
10:44:58  <Darkvater> Rubidium: if both are in one ignored or are both just loaded?
10:45:16  <Rubidium> I presume both are loaded and the last one is used
10:45:44  <Darkvater> so since statis is at the end,that'll be used then
10:46:14  <Darkvater> ugh, I last updated the changelog at r7125...
10:46:50  <Darkvater> Rubidium: then you're probably right and static needs to be removed
10:47:41  <Rubidium> that's only about 400 revisions...
10:47:51  <Darkvater> yeah, but still ;p
10:47:59  <Darkvater> at least I got the other 3000 the last time
10:48:07  <peter1138> most of those are syncs in other branches ;)
10:48:12  <Darkvater> r3508 :)
10:48:27  <Darkvater> I have 133 lines for changelog without prettyfying
10:49:10  <Rubidium> that is a quite long list
10:49:31  <peter1138> you forget what's changed when you only play the nightlies...
10:49:34  <peter1138> well
10:49:35  <peter1138> i do :)
10:51:15  <Celestar> morning
10:51:17  <Darkvater> dammit why doesn't windows have always-on-top buttons for every window
10:51:27  <Celestar> because it sucks?
10:51:30  <peter1138> heh
10:51:35  <Darkvater> I'm forced to use some crappy third-party software that's more often then not not even free
10:51:41  <Darkvater> hiya Celestar
10:53:49  <Darkvater> good ol' bjarni
10:53:54  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7131
10:53:56  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7131 /trunk/players.c (2006-11-11 23:08:07 UTC)
10:53:58  <_42_> -Fix (r7126) which fixes (r2817) the activating of a function call that was
10:54:00  <_42_>  1. never executed before that and even if it would, it
10:54:02  <_42_>  2. could never be executed because if it did OpenTTD would crash
10:54:32  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7133
10:54:34  <_42_> Commit by KUDr :: r7133 /trunk/table/build_industry.h (2006-11-12 01:14:44 UTC)
10:54:36  <_42_> - Fix: Can't build oil refinery in other climates than temperate.
10:54:46  <Darkvater> .. no reference tocommit that introduced this
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10:55:38  <Rubidium> it didn't happen in 0.4 or before
10:55:50  <Rubidium> it was introduces by Belugas' rework of the industry stuff
10:55:52  <Darkvater> I know, it was probably belu
10:55:54  <Darkvater> exactly
10:55:56  <Rubidium> *introduced
10:56:08  <KUDr> yes
10:56:44  <KUDr> only typo
10:56:51  <peter1138> i don't suppose the new airports have been fixed yet?
10:56:59  <Darkvater> ?
10:57:18  <peter1138> well, the intercontinental's flow problems for a start
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10:57:55  <Darkvater> no, it hasn't as far as I know
10:58:00  <Rubidium> Darkvater: why doesn't the intro-gui NewGRF settings save the settings on close?
10:58:10  <Darkvater> you need to press 'apply changes'
10:58:34  <Tefad> is that how other dialogs are handled?
10:58:54  <Darkvater> either RichK needs to fix it, or he needs to draw some flowchart for it cause I'm nt going to puzzle through itmyself
10:59:00  <Darkvater> Tefad: yes, difficulty dialog
10:59:02  <Tefad> i think default should be apply, and a cancel button used
10:59:05  <Tefad> oh.
10:59:13  <Tefad> well then : D
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10:59:24  <Darkvater> Rubidium: but I could use the flag to save it on close
10:59:25  <Tefad> what about the hack dialog
10:59:29  <Darkvater> probably more user friendly
10:59:53  <Tefad> "patches" whatever it is called
11:00:07  <Darkvater> it's instant
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11:01:02  <Darkvater> good thing I don't need to list yapf fixes ;p
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11:01:54  <Maedhros> hmm. the "Many random industries" button in the scenario editor is a little bit broken
11:02:19  <Maedhros> it stays down if you press it, although it still creates industries when you press it
11:02:21  <Rubidium> hmm, should we be able to overwrite static GRFs in the NewGRF config and should we (re)add static GRFs if their non-static counterpart (that removed it in the first place) gets removed?
11:02:39  <Darkvater> would you guys mind not noticing new bugs when I'm all set on releasing?
11:02:41  <Darkvater> thank you!
11:03:12  <peter1138> Rubidium: never alter the static config
11:03:25  <peter1138> unless there's a specific gui for it now...
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11:09:16  <Darkvater> would someone mind giving me an updated credits list?
11:09:21  *** Netsplit <-> quits: _42_
11:09:24  <Darkvater> presuming that person would like to be on that list
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11:11:23  <Rubidium_> hmm, what did I miss since "12:03 < peter1138> unless there's a specific gui for it now..."
11:11:29  <Darkvater> 12:09 <@Darkvater> would someone mind giving me an updated credits list?
11:11:32  <Darkvater> 12:09 <@Darkvater> presuming that person would like to be on that list
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11:13:37  <Rubidium_> I guess KUDr, Belugas, glx and me should be added and TrueLight moved to the retired devs section?
11:13:47  <Darkvater> he
11:13:53  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7312
11:13:54  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7312 /trunk/openttd.c (2006-11-30 22:23:11 UTC)
11:13:56  <_42_> -Fix: When loading a game from a dedicated server the local player global variable was
11:13:58  <_42_>  wrongly set to 0. In theory this allowed a dedicated server to also play. I see no
11:14:00  <_42_>  history for this bug, but it has been there since the introduction of the dedicated
11:14:02  <_42_>  server probably. Thanks peter1138 for bringing it to my attention and thanks myself
11:14:04  <_42_>  for rewriting the code so this bug could surface ;p
11:14:08  <Rubidium_> though TrueLight still hosts SVN & website
11:14:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: he was active for the most part of 0.5 (also TGP)
11:14:30  <Darkvater> but you guys need some 'job' description for yourself
11:15:09  <Rubidium_> maybe even RichK67, for airports & inital TGP
11:15:26  <Darkvater> yeah, I can put him in the thank-you list
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11:16:10  <Rubidium> so, the network connection to my server is back again :)
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11:16:48  <Rubidium> KUDr is the second pathfinder god?
11:17:23  <Rubidium> Belugas is kind of newgrf-student
11:17:35  <Darkvater> I'd promote KUDr to head pathfinder-god ;)
11:17:56  <KUDr> and C++ devil
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11:18:09  <Darkvater> hehe
11:18:31  <Brianetta> Doesn't g++ just write C code anyway?
11:18:31  <Darkvater> @7348
11:18:35  <Darkvater> almost done :)
11:18:59  <Tefad> ??
11:19:13  <Tefad> g++ writes binary files i thought
11:19:18  <Brianetta> no
11:19:25  <Brianetta> compilers write assembly, generally
11:19:46  <Tefad> i've yet to see a production compiler spit out assembly code
11:20:05  <Tefad> most go straight to machine language, aka binary
11:20:08  <Brianetta> Give it the right switch, and it won't bother to call the assembler.
11:20:13  <peter1138> binary is very vague
11:20:28  <peter1138> as it means the 0s and the 1s... well everything in the computer is binary
11:20:44  <Tefad> peter1138: binary in the FTP sense.
11:20:56  <Tefad> or email.. or whatever
11:21:00  <Rubidium> for myself and glx I don't have a really specific description
11:21:05  <Tefad> in other words, it isn't ASCII
11:21:10  <Tefad> assembly is ascii.
11:21:14  <peter1138> well, ascii is binary...
11:21:29  <Tefad> peter1138: that isn't part of the arguement here
11:21:56  <Brianetta> Fact is, gcc calls the assembler, which is an external program.
11:21:57  <peter1138> i think your argument is based on a flawed interpretation of binary
11:22:23  <Tefad> when you get a program for your computer, you have two options, binary or source, yes?
11:22:35  <Brianetta> I ws under the impression that g++ basically compiled to c, called gcc and that, in turn, called the assembler.
11:22:36  <peter1138> no, compiled or source
11:22:42  <peter1138> Brianetta: no, it doesn't
11:22:51  <roboboy> 011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001 is binary in binary
11:22:55  <Tefad> so why is the file labeled -bin or -src ? : \
11:23:03  <peter1138> gcc & g++ compile to object files
11:23:08  <Tefad> roboboy: actually it's in ascii ; )
11:23:09  <peter1138> who labelled anything -bin?
11:23:28  <roboboy> yeah Tefad but thats the code it would be
11:23:38  <Rubidium> binary generated from source and sources themselves... it is all the same only at a different level of abstraction and optimization
11:24:12  <peter1138> gcc -S will compile but not assemble
11:24:36  <peter1138> giving you Brianetta's assembly code
11:24:41  <Tefad> object code?
11:24:41  <peter1138> but it's all internal, afaik
11:24:49  <peter1138> no, it's text
11:24:53  <Tefad> interesting
11:24:56  <Brianetta> That's a change since I last looked at the internals of gcc
11:25:00  <Brianetta> which was in about 1997
11:25:30  <Brianetta> Back then (when the choice was gcc or egcs) the assembler was an external program
11:25:35  <Brianetta> asm
11:25:54  <Tefad> neat. it does output assembler : \
11:25:58  <Tefad> first i've seen that
11:26:08  <Brianetta> Tefad: All compilers do that.
11:26:13  <Brianetta> Or rather, can do that.
11:26:17  <Brianetta> C compilers, anyway
11:26:25  <Tefad> first i have seen
11:26:27  <Brianetta> I doubt a Java compiler would bother
11:26:30  <Tefad> i've never needed it
11:26:39  <Tefad> is there even a syntax for java byte code?
11:26:43  <Rubidium> peter1138: about 'removing' those static GRFs, I was talking in the scope of the NewGRF GUI within a single-player game
11:26:53  <Darkvater> yeees, changelog-draft is done!
11:26:59  <Brianetta> Tefad: There easily could be
11:28:01  <Rubidium> you shouldn't be able to remove the static GRFs, though you should be able to load a non-static GRF over the static GRF and when you remove a non-static GRF, it should be replaced with the static GRF _if_ that grf is in _grfconfig_static, or am I completly wrong?
11:28:12  <Tefad> PPC assembly looks weird.
11:28:12  <Maedhros> looks like the "Many random industries" button can be fixed by adding a SetWindowDirty(w) to the WE_TIMEOUT in ScenEditIndustryWndProc()
11:28:34  * Darkvater checks many-random-indus
11:30:59  <Darkvater> hmm
11:31:15  <Darkvater> Maedhros: RaiseWindowWidget should invalidate said widget
11:32:23  <Darkvater> it seems though the functionality was thought of differently
11:32:54  <Maedhros> Darkvater: i'm know very little about the gui code at all, but there's a SetWindowDirty in the WE_TIMEOUT of ScenEditTownGenWndProc...
11:33:13  <Maedhros> s/'m//
11:34:57  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7525 /trunk/main_gui.c: -Fix (r6631): Invalidate the widget of 'many random industries' when it is raised (Maedhros)
11:48:43  <peter1138> branch!
11:49:02  <Gonozal_VIII> bridge merge :-)
11:49:45  <peter1138> no
11:49:56  <Gonozal_VIII> no?
11:50:11  <peter1138> never!
11:50:21  <Gonozal_VIII> :'(
11:50:40  <roboboy> gnight
11:50:42  <Gonozal_VIII> briiiiiidges
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11:57:23  <Celestar> hm?
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12:00:13  <Rubidium> anyway, what are we going to do with the duplicates generated by newgrf-static?
12:00:20  <Celestar> hm?
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12:02:55  <peter1138> duplicates?
12:03:08  <Rubidium> <- those
12:03:12  <peter1138> don't add to the list if they're already there
12:03:41  <Darkvater> peter1138: static grf's don't show up in the intro-gui
12:03:52  <peter1138> correct
12:04:11  <Darkvater> so you can still add them if you forget they were in static
12:04:11  <peter1138> don't add to the list if they're already there, in CopyGRFConfigList()
12:04:19  <peter1138> is what i mean
12:04:22  <peter1138> and damn
12:04:25  <peter1138> my fingers hurt
12:04:42  <Rubidium> ok, maybe the new GUI makes it even more clear:
12:04:43  <Darkvater> ah but if you load a game with a static grf saved with there and you also have a static it is also doubly shown
12:05:15  <Brianetta> Doesn't that only affect a certain range of nightlies?
12:05:28  <Brianetta> *saved games from
12:05:31  <Rubidium> you can now move and remove static GRFs in-game
12:06:00  *** Purno_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:06:06  <peter1138> that kind of defeats the point of static grfs...
12:06:19  <Rubidium> exactly
12:06:46  <Brianetta> "static" grfs are te only ones that can safely be turned off and on during network play
12:07:06  <Brianetta> perhaps "local" would have been a more descriptive name
12:07:18  <peter1138> if dutch catenary is in the game config, then it should not be copied from the static config
12:07:24  <peter1138> or am i missing something?
12:07:41  <Rubidium> yes, it shouldn't be copied
12:07:50  <peter1138> so, make it so :)
12:08:00  <Rubidium> but ... now you can remove the static GRF in-game
12:08:49  <Rubidium> or even better: you can remove a non-static GRF that is in _grfconfig_static too, but it will not be readded as static GRF when you change it in-game
12:10:21  <Celestar> gaaah
12:10:32  <Brianetta> The static section is basically what the newgrf section was before, isn't it?
12:10:33  <Gonozal_VIII> you can even press the little X in the upper right corner of the game window and the game stops working!
12:11:11  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: Upper left, plesae
12:11:36  <Gonozal_VIII> left?
12:11:43  * Brianetta nods
12:11:49  <Brianetta> It's where close icons belong
12:12:04  <Brianetta> It's where they began
12:12:38  * Celestar is kind of tired
12:12:52  <Gonozal_VIII> bridges :-)
12:13:05  <Celestar> Gonozal_VIII: be patient.
12:13:10  <Celestar> we need the 0.5 branch first
12:13:39  <Gonozal_VIII> i am patient but i like the new bridges very much
12:13:50  <Brianetta> then play that branch
12:14:12  <Gonozal_VIII> missing miniin features..
12:14:22  <Brianetta> so is 0.5
12:14:26  <Celestar> well, then wait a few days :)
12:14:41  <Gonozal_VIII> branch --> trunk --> miniin
12:14:46  <Brianetta> Many miniin features will never be in the trunk
12:14:47  <peter1138> is richk still keeping the miniin branch up to date?
12:14:55  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: you know that RichK67 has plans to stay with 0.5 for a while?
12:15:04  <Gonozal_VIII> :-/
12:15:09  <peter1138> or have we got misguided ottd devs involved too...
12:15:21  <Brianetta> misguided (:
12:15:26  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-235-72.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:15:36  <Brianetta> speaking of which, hello Sacro
12:15:53  <Gonozal_VIII> [22:42:25] <CIA-1> glx * r7512 /branches/MiniIN/ (23 files in 2 dirs): [MiniIN] -Sync with trunk r7496:r7511
12:16:18  <Sacro> hello Brianetta
12:16:21  <SpComb> Logs:
12:16:21  <Sacro> !logs
12:16:35  * Brianetta runs away
12:16:56  <Celestar> KUDr: you there?
12:17:03  <KUDr> yes
12:17:15  <Celestar> I'm in struct CFollowTrackT : public FollowTrack_t
12:17:44  <KUDr> wait, i must open it too
12:18:05  <Celestar> follow_track.hpp
12:18:16  <Celestar> lines 81 ...
12:18:23  <Celestar> what shall I do with it?
12:18:39  * Sacro hits Brianetta with a pointy stick
12:19:11  <KUDr> Celestar: if (IsBridgeTile(m_old_tile)) {
12:19:24  <KUDr> just remove the ramp test
12:19:33  <Celestar> hm?
12:20:00  <KUDr> you told me that IsBridgeTile() now returns true only if it is ramp
12:20:07  <Celestar> correct
12:20:50  <Celestar> I don't see the ramp test
12:22:04  <KUDr> so what branch?
12:22:15  <peter1138> 0.5
12:22:17  <Celestar> I've just merged 7226:7227
12:22:22  <peter1138> then the RC1 tag
12:22:24  <peter1138> :D
12:22:35  <KUDr> i used branches/bridge synced up to 7515
12:22:39  <peter1138> then we'll have loads of stuff for 0.6. heh...
12:23:37  <Celestar> KUDr: ah ok
12:23:41  * Celestar goes merging
12:23:44  <KUDr> Celestar: this we solved yesterday or not?
12:23:47  <Celestar> we did
12:23:51  <Celestar> I just didn'T commit
12:23:58  <Celestar> :P
12:24:01  <Celestar> works now
12:24:11  <KUDr> aha, i have it locally sysnced up to 7515
12:24:18  <Celestar> can you commit that?
12:24:29  <KUDr> so line 81 can be different one
12:24:39  <Sacro> are bridges going into 0.5?
12:24:50  <KUDr> yes, i will update it up to head and then commit, ok?
12:24:54  <peter1138> Sacro: no
12:24:59  <Celestar> KUDr: ok
12:25:32  <Celestar> KUDr: then I will do some testing and wait for the branch
12:25:44  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
12:25:49  <KUDr> ok
12:25:56  <Sacro> what about newhouses?
12:26:02  <peter1138> nope
12:26:16  <peter1138> if it's not in trunk, it's not in 0.5
12:28:37  <Maedhros> oh, that reminds me, i've still got that fix for gradual loading and full load any hanging around
12:28:41  <Maedhros>
12:30:50  <Celestar> baaahhh
12:30:55  <Celestar> $LUSER on the phone
12:32:14  <Gonozal_VIII> oh.. that reminds me, i had a problem with gradual loading at a busy steel mill, didn't load the trains fast enough (not enough trains at the same time), steel piled up
12:33:17  <Maedhros> well, the speed the trains load at is fixed; it has nothing to do with how much is waiting
12:33:55  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but it should have loaded more trains at the same time or something..
12:36:03  <Maedhros> oh that. yeah, we don't have proper FIFO loading, and "Improved loading algorithm" basically means "one vehicle at a time"
12:36:34  <Maedhros> back in a bit
12:37:01  <Gonozal_VIII> somehow it loaded more than one with the gradual loading turned off
12:38:09  <Biff> does it only load one vehicle at the time when there is enough cargo for both vehicles?
12:38:36  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
12:39:08  <Biff> oh
12:39:24  <Biff> lazy workers at the station :>
12:39:30  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
12:41:18  <Celestar> WTF?
12:41:22  <Celestar> I got a 3.1GB text file here
12:41:28  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
12:41:46  <Rubidium> that takes quite some time reading
12:41:52  <Gonozal_VIII> renamed a dvd image to .txt?^^
12:42:00  <Celestar> but it doesn't take much time deleting
12:43:56  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7526 /branches/bridge/ (174 files in 10 dirs): [bridge] - Sync with r7226:7525 from trunk
12:44:02  <Celestar> thanks KUDr  :)
12:44:06  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
12:44:36  <KUDr> np, sorry for the delay (double checked if i didn't forget anything)
12:44:42  <Darkvater> changelog...almost...done
12:44:46  <Celestar> np KUDr
12:44:54  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:44:55  <Darkvater> anyone fancy looking at Maedhros gradual-loading fix?
12:45:00  <peter1138> i looked
12:45:02  <Darkvater> and have we decided on Rubidium's static patch?
12:45:18  <peter1138> but then i closed it again ;p
12:45:58  <Celestar> :P
12:46:35  <peter1138> got stuff to do, you know
12:46:40  <Celestar> WTF
12:46:57  <peter1138> i know, it's amazing
12:47:13  <Celestar>
12:47:16  <Celestar> holy crap
12:47:17  <Darkvater> WTF?
12:47:22  <Celestar> I want that im my living room
12:47:23  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 5917
12:47:27  <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r5917 /trunk/vehicle.c (2006-08-15 15:27:30 UTC)
12:47:29  <_42_> -Fix: [clone vehicles] FS#275 Bugfix: Cloned Road Vehicles Are Not Refitted To Correct Cargo (Mart3p)
12:47:30  <Darkvater> who is mr camelcase?
12:47:35  <Darkvater> ah bjarni
12:47:38  <Darkvater> figures...
12:47:43  <peter1138> heeh
12:48:24  <Celestar> <= hr hr
12:48:26  <peter1138> Celestar: i bet that costs a lot :)
12:50:03  <Celestar> peter1138: "normal" business class fares
12:50:21  <Celestar> <= can also have first class :P
12:50:50  <peter1138> i bet they've just got gnomes in for the pictures
12:51:28  <Tefad> 23" LCD per seat?
12:53:02  <Celestar> Tefad: yeah
12:53:23  <Celestar> 23" for First Class, 15.4" for Business Class and 11" for Economy Class (per seat)
12:53:30  <Celestar> Video and Audio on Demand
12:53:36  <Tefad> er economy gets LCD too.. wow
12:53:43  <Celestar> 300 movies
12:53:50  <Tefad> nice
12:54:00  <Celestar> I must be doing something wrong in my life
12:54:25  <Celestar> 35 inch wide seat.... must be made for the US market
12:54:26  <Celestar> *runs*
12:54:31  <Tefad> haha
12:54:38  <Tefad> i was thinking the same thing
12:54:41  <Tefad> and i'm american.
12:55:46  <Tefad> it is expensive to eat healthy in the us
12:56:03  <Celestar> I know
12:56:03  <Tefad> and most weren't taught portion control
12:56:35  <Tefad> so.. fatty meats and fried food = giant ass.
12:56:49  <Tefad> then there's the rich who don't care, and just eat tons of healthy foods
12:57:47  <Celestar> It's all about (Energy_In - Energy_Out)
12:58:10  <Darkvater>
12:58:11  <Darkvater> comments?
12:58:24  <peter1138> doooo it
12:58:27  <Celestar> reading
12:59:53  <Celestar> what is r5833? :o
12:59:58  <Celestar> !commit 5833
13:00:56  <Celestar> nice list of fixes/features
13:01:17  <Rubidium> Tefad: isn't eating healthy in the US like eating half the of portion you get?
13:02:22  <Rubidium> Darkvater: is there any way it is ordered?
13:03:07  <Rubidium> maybe removed 'features' should be made more explicit
13:04:26  <Celestar> what features were removed?
13:04:50  <Rubidium> +- Codechange: Remove the "unsorted" vehicle sorter, because it's plain useless (r6270)
13:04:53  <Rubidium> +- Codechange: Remove MSVC6 support. The compiler was too stupid and too many workarounds were needed. Please switch to mingw or VC2005++ express (r5286)
13:05:51  <Rubidium> +- Feature: [Train is] Lost message is now generated immediately when pathfinder can't find the path (r6800) <- use () instead of [] here?
13:06:03  <Darkvater> Rubidium: it is feature/codechange/fix with revision going down
13:06:15  <Tefad> Rubidium: or less, depending
13:06:26  <Darkvater> Celestar: !openttd commit 5833
13:06:29  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 5833
13:06:52  <_42_> Commit by tron :: r5833 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs) (2006-08-10 14:44:32 UTC)
13:06:54  <Tefad> i am a large person to begin with, so one american sized meal a day plus small meal elsewhere and snacks is fine for me
13:06:54  <_42_> -Feature: Allow building of (certain) rails, roads and bridge ramps on steep sloped tiles
13:07:37  <Celestar> hm
13:07:54  <Celestar> is this some kinda extension to "build on slopes" ?
13:08:06  <Rubidium> Darkvater: then the last fix is at the wrong location
13:08:15  <Rubidium> or the revision is wrong
13:08:21  <Darkvater> he
13:08:22  <Darkvater> indeed
13:08:31  <peter1138> Celestar: yeah, it's build on steep slopes
13:08:35  <Darkvater> it was a damn long fucking list :(
13:08:50  <Darkvater> peter1138: what big newgrf support do we have? newstations, newsounds...?
13:08:59  *** Aloysha [] has quit [Quit: a dogcow says moof]
13:09:05  <Rubidium> ok, why version,------, empty line for 0.4.6 and more and 0.1.4 and less, but not for 0.2-0.4.5?
13:09:26  <Rubidium> and the changelog file is missing the last newline now
13:09:30  <Darkvater> Rubidium: what?
13:09:32  <peter1138> newstations, newsounds, more callbacks, i guess. can't remember any off the top of my head though
13:09:51  <peter1138> hmm
13:09:58  <Rubidium> the 'header' for each version is
13:10:01  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I don't get the empty-line...
13:10:04  <peter1138> and the we now support multilingual stuff
13:10:07  <Rubidium> version (date)
13:10:09  <Rubidium> ---------------------
13:10:10  <peter1138> previously it was english only
13:10:11  <Rubidium> empty line
13:10:16  <Darkvater> the diff is confusing Rubidium, the file itself is consistent
13:10:17  <Rubidium> list
13:10:58  <Rubidium> but for 0.3.0 - 0.4.5 that empty line after the --------- seems to be missing
13:11:07  <Darkvater> it is <br><br>version<line><br> for _all_
13:12:55  <Rubidium> it isn't (when I apply the diff to my local checkout) for:
13:13:00  *** Celestar [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
13:13:32  <Darkvater> hmm could be bad newlines, but here it is
13:13:42  <Rubidium> 0.4.0, 0.3.6, 0.3.5, 0.3.4,, 0.3.2, 0.3.1 and 0.3.0
13:14:09  <Darkvater> richK's name was Richard Kempton right?
13:15:33  <Darkvater> ok, who is a developer?
13:16:40  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:17:11  <blathijs> We're releasing? :-)
13:17:14  <Rubidium> Darkvater: I think so
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13:19:09  <Darkvater> KUDr: ping
13:19:18  <Darkvater> blathijs: ya
13:20:05  <Darkvater> how about: 	"  Jaroslav Mazanec (KUDr) - YAPG (Yet Another Pathfinder God)",
13:20:11  <Darkvater> ^^
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13:20:55  <KUDr> Darkvater: pong
13:21:05  <Darkvater> KUDr: how about that description? :)
13:21:11  <blathijs> Am I listed as a Pathfinder God too, then? ;-p
13:21:13  <KUDr> i am ok with it
13:21:31  <Darkvater> blathijs: you have been demoted to guru :)
13:21:38  <blathijs> :-)
13:21:55  <blathijs> Guru is better. Less power, more knowledge ;-p
13:23:07  <Sacro> you can meditate
13:23:59  <hylje> omg
13:24:21  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
13:24:24  <Celestar> damn
13:24:26  <Celestar> X froze
13:27:29  <Tefad> that's lame
13:27:48  <Celestar> well
13:27:52  <Celestar> could be worse
13:27:57  <Darkvater> I need a little write-up for the readme then I will bless you with a new diff
13:28:09  <Celestar> my father-in-law's car caught fire yesterday
13:28:11  <Darkvater> but I would love to see gradual-load fix added at least
13:28:32  <Darkvater> the static list also, but if we can't crystallize it atm, I'm fine with it left out of RC1
13:28:45  <Celestar> no one says that it is 100% forbidden to add features in a branch
13:29:15  <Darkvater> of course. I don't like to release RC with known bugs that we have known fixes for
13:29:26  <Celestar> yeah
13:33:46  <Darkvater> o-O
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13:37:45  <peter1138> 13:26 <@Darkvater> but I would love to see gradual-load fix added at least
13:37:47  <peter1138> then add it? :p
13:38:15  <Celestar> fischer@sonne:[/nfs/home/fischer]> uptime 2:38pm  up 36 days  5:02,  52 users,  load average: 3.75, 3.94, 3.91
13:38:19  <Celestar> :S
13:38:33  <Sacro> 52 users?
13:38:35  <Celestar> yeah
13:38:37  <Celestar> fischer@sonne:[/nfs/home/fischer]> ps aux | grep komarek | grep xterm | wc -l
13:38:38  <Celestar> 19
13:38:43  <Sacro> ouch
13:38:45  <Celestar> why does this guy need 19 xterms?!
13:39:02  <Sacro> Celestar: he's never heard of screen
13:39:15  <Celestar> no of course not
13:39:45  <Celestar> 293 processes
13:39:55  <Celestar> for a server that does nothing more than X logins (wmaker)
13:40:11  *** Darkvater [~tfarago@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:40:16  <Celestar> our main kerberos, samba, ldap, dns, dhcp server has only 210 processes
13:40:48  <Celestar> users suck :S
13:44:11  <Tefad> without users you wouldn't have a job : D
13:44:20  <Tefad> just a tounge-in-cheek thing for admins to say?
13:44:32  <Celestar> !openttd commit 5999
13:44:37  <hylje> :o
13:44:37  <_42_> Commit by rubidium :: r5999 /trunk/ (25 files) (2006-08-20 18:40:57 UTC)
13:44:39  <_42_> -Feature: change the original date format to a 32 bits format based at the year 0.
13:44:41  <_42_> The game date subsystem now allows someone to start in the year 0 and continue
13:44:43  <_42_> up to the year 5 000 000. However, you currently cannot build anything before
13:44:45  <_42_> 1920 as there is no newgrf support for dates before 1920 or after 2090 yet.
13:44:47  <hylje> Tefad: admins hate users no matter what
13:44:53  <Celestar> I don't hate users
13:45:01  <Tefad> meh.. BOFH hate users
13:45:17  <Celestar> I'm just amazed that they complain about dismal performance when they run 46!!!! X Servers on a 2200MHz Celeron
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13:45:28  <Tefad> damn
13:45:41  <Celestar> we should contact MB
13:45:50  <Tefad> MB?
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13:45:57  <hylje> 2.2GHz celeron.. as a server..
13:46:00  <DarkSSH> dammit I can't force openttd to use the windows palette...
13:46:03  <hylje> WTF OMG
13:46:05  <SpComb> Logs:
13:46:05  <DarkSSH> !logs
13:46:24  <Tefad> hylje: i have a 566MHz celeron as a NAT : D
13:46:32  <kampasky> Celestar: well that's your problem, not theirs, is it? ;)
13:46:44  <kampasky> that it's just a 2200MHz Celeron
13:46:46  <DarkSSH> peter1138: well but I have no idea if the fix is any good
13:46:48  <Tefad> (with an ISA NIC i need to replace, when i get a chance)
13:47:07  <kampasky> Celestar: (as long as one of these users isn't department head refusing to fund a new server, then it's of course _his_ problem :)
13:47:23  <DarkSSH> Celestar: what's with MB?
13:47:54  <Celestar> kampasky: not really. it is misused.
13:48:07  <Celestar> DarkSSH: he should expand DBSetXL to pre-1920 :)
13:48:14  <DarkSSH> he
13:48:22  <kampasky> Celestar: then you need to educate the users better
13:48:23  <hylje> middle ages!
13:48:31  <Celestar> kampasky: and no, department head will not fund a new server.
13:48:32  <Celestar> :S
13:48:40  <Celestar> kampasky: I just did :P
13:48:48  <Celestar> killall -9 Xvnc :P
13:48:55  <Tefad> heeeeeee
13:49:03  <Tefad> what kind of memory is in that thing
13:49:04  <Celestar> I wonder why some users need to have 8 running Xvnc
13:49:12  <Celestar> Tefad: 2 Gigs
13:49:15  <Tefad> ah ok.
13:49:28  <kampasky> Celestar: I don't, they just might not care and not realize the impact
13:50:03  <Celestar> kampasky: all $USERS are MoS in engineering and just doing they PhD .. they DO realize the impact
13:50:22  <Celestar> they just don't care ...
13:50:27  <Celestar> or wait
13:50:31  * Celestar remembers
13:50:31  <Tefad> 'not my problem' : D
13:50:43  <kampasky> huh.. well, you need to ulimit them then
13:50:44  <Celestar> "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence"
13:50:46  <kampasky> limit their CPU time
13:50:51  <Celestar> kampasky: will do
13:50:58  <Celestar> next week. as Xmas present.
13:50:59  <kampasky> then it _will_ impact them
13:51:07  <Tefad> hahaha
13:51:20  <kampasky> at our university, we're overfunded ;)
13:51:23  *** A1win [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51:27  <kampasky> but don't tell that anybody
13:51:33  <Celestar> we're underfunded, underpayed and overworked
13:51:44  <kampasky> we're overfunded on equipment
13:51:49  <kampasky> underfunded on paychecks :(
13:51:55  <Celestar> here too :(
13:52:02  <peter1138> 13:46 < Celestar> DarkSSH: he should expand DBSetXL to pre-1920 :)
13:52:04  <peter1138> he won't
13:52:13  <Celestar> why not?
13:52:14  <Celestar> :P
13:52:20  <peter1138> cos it won't work in ttdp
13:52:29  <Celestar> then I need to do it? :S
13:52:31  <kampasky> so we have quite some funds for equipment, which we _have_ to spend, but real shortage of money for paying those who will do the former (me ;)
13:52:39  <kampasky> I'd prefer it the other way
13:52:42  <Celestar> yeah
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13:53:54  <Celestar> wb Darkvater
13:54:00  * DarkSSH kicks Darkvater
13:54:01  <DarkSSH> ass
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13:59:16  *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
13:59:29  * Celestar ponders to kick Darkvater
14:00:08  * blathijs agrees with DarkSSH. Darkvater is such an ass sometimes...
14:00:09  <blathijs> ;-p
14:01:08  * Celestar detonates
14:01:23  <Celestar> my backup software lets me back up all the files
14:01:35  <Celestar> manually
14:01:51  <Celestar> when I run the scheduler, no files with special chars are backed up
14:02:21  <mikk36> i have a bit better program
14:02:30  <blathijs> And you discovered while trying to recover this tremendously important file with special characters in its name?
14:02:35  <Celestar> generating 220.000 errors per night.
14:02:36  <mikk36> it backs up all files but the ones with russian characters in it
14:02:48  <Celestar> so the backup guys call me every morning because their logs are full :S
14:02:56  <mikk36> and luckily the server has only 2 of such files
14:03:19  <mikk36> and i notified the guys not to create any more of such files
14:03:22  <Celestar> the program never has a problem with Chinese or Arabic chars.
14:03:28  <Celestar> only "äöüÄÖÜß"
14:03:33  <mikk36> lol :P
14:03:33  <Celestar> and some of the French filenames
14:03:36  <mikk36> no prob here :)
14:03:39  <mikk36> using freeware :)
14:03:50  <Celestar> using IBM's TSM system here
14:03:57  <mikk36> backing up to same disk and over ftp to another computer
14:04:12  <mikk36> and that ftp creates a problem
14:04:17  <mikk36> with russian char's
14:04:19  <Celestar> well, ftp is not the right tool if you have a 1.8PB backup system on the other end :)
14:04:34  <mikk36> what is better over the net ?
14:04:53  <mikk36> i ftp it over lan here
14:04:56  <Celestar> well, actually the IBM software is not bad. only the umlaut problem puzzles me
14:04:59  <mikk36> ~1.6GB data
14:05:11  <Celestar> because no one else has that problem
14:05:17  <Celestar> then again, we're the first to run SLES10
14:05:24  <mikk36> sles ?`
14:05:43  <Celestar> suse linux enterprise server
14:05:47  <mikk36> nice
14:06:02  <Celestar> on a Quad CPU machine with 7.5TB of disk space
14:06:14  <mikk36> so it supposedly works on sles9 ?
14:06:20  <Celestar> supposedly
14:06:27  <mikk36> :P
14:07:43  <Celestar> has Suse 9.1 before, worked.
14:08:57  <Celestar> and the hotline is busy :S
14:09:05  <Celestar> gaaaaaaaaaaah
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14:17:19  <DarkSSH> hmm what else do I need to update...
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14:21:28  <DarkSSH> we really need to clean up all these readmes and whatnot
14:21:30  <DarkSSH> it's a huge mess
14:21:36  <DarkSSH> and half of it is outdated
14:23:55  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7527 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Update appropiate files with release information for 0.5.0-RC1
14:24:16  <DarkSSH> so branchor-ez or apply Maedhros' gradual loading fix?
14:25:08  *** tosse [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26:18  <DarkSSH> Maedhros: that patch seriously needs a comment
14:31:46  <DarkSSH> wtf? we have branches/makefile and branches/makefile_rewrite?
14:31:48  * DarkSSH is confused
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14:33:52  <blathijs> DarkSSH: When do we plan to branch 0.5?
14:34:08  <DarkSSH> when people stop ignoring me :(
14:34:22  <DarkSSH> I'm just waiting for some feedback about the gradual loading thing
14:34:35  <blathijs> "the gradual loading thing" ?
14:34:40  <blathijs> link?
14:37:02  <DarkSSH> 13:28 < Maedhros>
14:37:06  <DarkSSH> damn took me a while to find
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14:37:16  <Darkvater> so
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14:38:03  <CIA-1> truelight * r7529 /masterserver/ (misc.h network_data.h udp.cpp): [MasterServer] -Add: added support for gameinfo v4 (newgrf) (Rubidium)
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14:40:58  * Darkvater is not syncing until hehears about that gradual load fix. not going to release a RC2 just for that
14:41:55  *** CIA-1 [] has quit []
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14:41:58  <Rubidium> my 'fix' for the newgrf static trouble in the in-game newgrf menu is getting _way_ too messy
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14:42:18  <CIA-1> truelight * r7530 /website/templates/footer_nightly.tpl: [Website] -Fix: updated the footer in the nightly page to reflect 2006
14:42:18  <CIA-1> truelight * r7528 /website/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
14:42:18  <CIA-1> [Website] -Add: added support for gameinfo v4 (newgrf) (Rubidium)
14:42:18  <CIA-1> [MasterServer] -Add: added DB layout for gameinfo v4 (newgrf) (Rubidium)
14:43:04  <CIA-1> truelight * r7531 /website/servers.php: [Website] -Add: in the server list, show with a chance of 1 over 4 the amount of current active clients
14:44:26  <CIA-1> truelight * r7532 /website/ (server_detail.php templates/server_detail.tpl): [Website] -Fix: made the grf-table-header-text a bit more pretty
14:45:06  <CIA-1> matthijs * r7533 /trunk/os/debian/ (changelog control rules templates):
14:45:06  <CIA-1> -Codechange [Debian]: Update debian packaging files
14:45:06  <CIA-1>  - Update to latest standards version.
14:45:06  <CIA-1>  - Fix rules to compile only once.
14:46:10  <blathijs> Darkvater: what's the problem the patch is supposed to fix?
14:46:38  <glx> something with "improved loading" IIRC
14:46:48  <Darkvater> blathijs: no idea
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14:47:03  <Darkvater> Rubidium: hmm, then let's rest on it for a while
14:47:21  <Rubidium> ok
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14:48:19  <Darkvater> I hereby give free reign to the docs/ version to be updated
14:49:52  <glx> blathijs: hmm indeed it's for the problem with 'full load of any' (leave station when full of one cargo type, even with other type still available in the station)
14:55:28  <blathijs> glx: so, basically, this patch will ensure gradual loading of cargo type A is finished, even while cargo type B is already fully loaded
14:56:08  <hylje> is svn 1.4 client compatible with 1.3 server?
14:56:11  <blathijs> which subtly changes the meaning of 'full load of any' (In a good way, I think)
14:56:18  <blathijs> hylje: It should be
14:56:32  <blathijs> Darkvater: the patch looks okay, but it needs some more comments, indeed
14:56:47  <blathijs> unfortunately, I'm out of time. Gotta go cooking...
14:57:02  <blathijs> Darkvater: Remind me to look at the gradual loading thing again tomorrow
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15:22:58  * Maedhros will attempt to add comments to the patch, although without SVN available it might be a challenge ;-)
15:23:31  <Maedhros> and yes, it means that if you have a train loading two different cargo types with different capacities, it won't leave when one is full if there's enough to fill another
15:24:31  <Celestar> what's wrong with svn ....
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15:25:30  <Maedhros> the laptop with svn on it doesn't have a wireless card. this computer does, but isn't mine and doesn't have svn :)
15:25:47  <Celestar> oh ok
15:26:40  <blathijs> Maedhros: Why does there need to be enough to fill another?
15:27:09  <blathijs> Maedhros: Can't you just continue loading if there's any cargo left, even if it's not enough to be filled?
15:27:48  <Maedhros> well we could, but i thought the point of full load any was to leave as soon as possible
15:28:17  <Maedhros> but yes, the patch is easier to write if you carry on with any cargo left to load
15:28:52  <blathijs> Maedhros: when taking the order really literal, the old behaviour is correct, I think
15:30:08  <blathijs> Yet, when you give a full load on any order, you generally mean "Don't stay waiting on other cargo types to arrive at the statoin when one is full"
15:31:52  <blathijs> Without gradual loading, this is exaclty the same
15:32:19  <blathijs> AFAICS, your patch is trying to keep the same behaviour with gradual loading
15:32:48  <blathijs> but that means it should keep waiting if any cargo is available
15:34:02  <Maedhros> ok, in that case you should get the behaviour you want by removing all references too free_space[]
15:34:09  <Maedhros> s/too/to/
15:34:32  <blathijs> Maedhros: Do you agree that this behaviour is 'better' ?
15:36:13  <Maedhros> i'm not convinced either way is better really :)
15:36:27  <Maedhros> i'm willing to take opinions on what everyone else thinks
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15:38:28  <blathijs> Celestar: glx: hylje: Rubidium: Darkvater: What do you think?
15:38:57  <blathijs> When the "full load on any" order is given and one cargo type is full loaded, should the train:
15:39:04  <blathijs> 1) Depart immediately
15:39:45  <hylje> i think it should depart
15:39:46  <blathijs> 2) Continue loading additional cargo types from the station, if any are available until the station has no more cargo for the train.
15:39:52  <Rubidium> keep loading till nothing can be loaded anymore and then leave when at least one cargo type is full
15:40:14  <Celestar> if one cargo is full, the train should depart.
15:40:19  <blathijs> 3) Continue loading additional cargo, only if there is enough cargo in the station to fully load the train
15:40:48  <Celestar> blathijs: however, during the load process, it should add other cargo types as well. it should NOT wait.
15:41:03  <Maedhros> currently, the train will leave if one cargo is full, even if there's enough there to fill another
15:41:15  <Celestar> why?
15:41:18  <Maedhros> the patch i wrote means if will only leave if it can't completely fill another cargo type
15:41:21  <Celestar> I've not observed such behaviour
15:41:23  <peter1138> hm
15:41:43  <Celestar> but it should "reject" cargo that is already at the station methinks
15:41:46  <Maedhros> Celestar: gradual loading - it loads 5 units each time, so it's possible to fill one cargo type and not another in the same time
15:42:01  <blathijs> hylje: Celestar: so, you're saying 1) ?
15:42:06  <Celestar> Maedhros: as I said, I think the train should not wait.
15:42:11  <Rubidium> I go for 2, because the following scenario: you have a passenger/mail train going A->B->C->A, A & C accept mail, A, B & C passengers. If the train has a full mail wagon, it will depart immediatelly after unloading the passengers in B, so the passengers in B will not be picked up.
15:42:34  <Celestar> we need "full load on <select specific cargo>"
15:43:14  * Celestar somehow sees Rubidium's point.
15:43:57  <Celestar> blathijs: I say 1 or 2
15:44:10  * Celestar somehow sees problems with gradualloading.
15:44:16  <Celestar> :)
15:44:20  <blathijs> In general, the loading will not take much time, compared to the actual travelling time and compared to waiting for the industry in question to produce more cargo
15:45:07  <blathijs> So, "waiting for other cargo" in this context is really "Finish loading up cargo already on the platform"
15:45:32  <peter1138> yes
15:49:26  <blathijs> peter1138: 1, 2 or 3?
15:49:36  <blathijs> hylje: still think 1?
15:52:06  <Brianetta> I say load what's available
15:52:28  <Brianetta> Don't let a train with full load orders leave freight on the platform if it has space
15:54:05  <Maedhros> it's untested, but this should do that:
15:55:34  <blathijs> Hmm, how do I even give a full load on any order?
15:56:26  <Maedhros> it's a patch option somewhere
15:56:56  <Darkvater> ~back
15:57:05  <peter1138> 2 i think
15:57:59  <Brianetta> There should be an "await cargo" order
15:58:12  <Brianetta> where a train loads, then leaves, if there is cargo
15:58:18  <Darkvater> normally full-load was load ALL wagons FULL
15:58:26  <Brianetta> if there is no cargo, it waits until there is, then loads until there isn't, and then leaves.
15:58:30  <Darkvater> and full-load-any was leave as soon as any cargo-type was FULL
15:58:52  <peter1138> yeah, but that changes
15:59:00  <peter1138> maybe gradual loading needs to be rewritten, heh
15:59:02  <Brianetta> Darkvater: That option was specifically to stop trains (like the 125) waiting forever in the days before refits, wasn't it?
15:59:05  <Darkvater> in Rubidium's scenario why should train leave B cause it hasn't even loaded any mail, it arrived fully
15:59:17  <Belugas> 2 and 3 are quite alike, i think
16:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i see no real point in 3...
16:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in the above scenario, if there are not enough passengers to fill the train, it will leave empty?!?
16:01:24  <Darkvater> JEZUS christ, I wanted to send backmy broken printer for repairs... minimum cost 50euro, if they work on it for more than 15 minutes or spend more than 5 euro on replacement parts the prices is 170 euro
16:01:51  <blathijs> Hmm, it's actually hard to trigger the behaviour we are discussing
16:01:59  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Do that instead, tehn.
16:02:14  <Darkvater> Maedhros: what does the patch fix? Eg how does it change behaviour?
16:02:20  <blathijs> Since all wagons get loaded at the same time, they will mostly be full at the same time
16:02:38  <blathijs> Darkvater: See above. Current is 1). Patch is 3). I was arguing 2) :-)
16:02:46  <Darkvater> T_T readback
16:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: find a newgrf set that changes loading rates
16:03:18  <Darkvater> I don't get 3)
16:03:26  <Darkvater> this is with full-load-any on right?
16:03:35  <Maedhros> blathijs: try with passengers and mail - one holds 35 and the other 40. send to a station with vast amounts of both
16:03:44  <Maedhros> the train leaves when the mail vans are full
16:03:55  <Darkvater> If the train's cargo X is full why should it keep loading? That defeats the whole purpose of full-load-any
16:03:56  <Belugas> i think 3) only differs from 2) on the evaluation of what's needed to go on.
16:04:08  <Maedhros> even though there's enough passengers waiting to fill the train
16:04:22  <Belugas> 3=" only if there is enough cargo in the station to fully load the train"
16:04:49  <blathijs> Darkvater: because it's pointless to leave cargo on the platform (which is what the current behaviour does)
16:04:53  <Belugas> 2="until the station has no more cargo for the train"
16:04:54  <Darkvater> I think the specs for full-load any was clear. Leave as soon as cargo X is full
16:05:20  <Brianetta> Rather than wait forever for cargo that can't arrive
16:05:20  <Belugas> so i see a "IF NOT EMPTY" and a "WHILE NOT EMPTY"
16:05:46  <Brianetta> Personally, I'd rather than full-load-any trains picked up other bits and bobs if they were there, without waiting for a full load.
16:05:48  <Darkvater>
16:06:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i think 2 would be the best way to go
16:06:25  <Belugas> me too
16:06:33  <Belugas> me works
16:06:35  <Belugas> me bye bye
16:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> leave, if one cargo is full, and there is nothing more to load
16:06:41  <Brianetta> (:
16:07:04  <blathijs> Darkvater: I agree that "full load any" has a clear definition. It's just not exactly the wanted behaviour.
16:07:35  <blathijs> 16:42 < Rubidium> I go for 2, because the following scenario: you have a passenger/mail train going A->B->C->A, A & C accept mail, A, B & C passengers. If  the train has a full mail wagon, it will depart immediatelly after unloading the passengers in B, so the passengers in B will not be  picked up.
16:07:48  <blathijs> And that's (one reason) why
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16:07:58  <Darkvater> that'd be a bug actually
16:08:09  <Darkvater> because the train has arrived and has not loaded any cargo
16:08:22  <Darkvater> so full-load-any would not apply to the full wagon
16:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but one cargo is full, which fits the 'primitive' definition of full load any
16:08:48  <Maedhros> it won't leave without attempting load load unless the vehicle has an Unload order
16:08:58  <Maedhros> *attempting _to_ load
16:09:06  <blathijs> Darkvater: In that case, the definition is not so clear ;-)
16:09:12  <Darkvater> 3) is a bit weird and confusing imho. Only load if you can fill the wagon fully at start...
16:09:26  * blathijs is off cooking
16:09:47  <Maedhros> so Rubidium's scenario won't happen (unless i messed it up somehow...)
16:09:50  <Darkvater> however..if the station has goods only trickling in 1 by 1 it could be that the train is stuck on the station loading additional goods which come in slowly, defeating the purpose of full load any
16:10:27  <Darkvater> Maedhros: if Rubidium's scenario cannot happen (can you check) then we should leave the current behaviour imho
16:10:52  <Maedhros> Darkvater: yup, i'll check :)
16:11:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd suggest the following behaviour, loading has 3 stages: 1) full load any, if one cargo is full enter 2) normal load behaviour, if no cargo left, 3) attempt to leave station
16:11:44  <Brianetta> Eddi: Reasonable
16:11:53  <Darkvater> hmm, I looked at a new computer back in september, and looking at it with the same specs it has even gotten more expensive :(
16:12:15  <Brianetta> Darkvater: It's Christmas
16:12:20  <Brianetta> It'll be cheaper in two weeks
16:12:21  <hylje> lol
16:12:38  <Tefad> CPU design isn't improving much : \
16:12:52  <Brianetta> Just think of all those Christmas PCs being sold, without Vista
16:13:00  <Tefad> awesome.
16:13:05  <Brianetta> MS really missed that opportunity.
16:13:07  <Tefad> then when the upgrade blows up... woohoo
16:13:13  <Brianetta> Heh.
16:13:27  <Tefad> computer shops around the world will have much fun on that day
16:14:16  <Tefad> hopefully for the users' sake, MS has thoroughly tested it with the version of windows the OEMs ship
16:14:31  <Tefad> (perhaps added a few more hooks or whatever into that version)
16:14:42  <Tefad> hints perhaps
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16:18:44  <peter1138> what?
16:23:39  <blathijs> Darkvater: Waiting on goods 1 by 1 won't happen, assuming that there is no cargo added to the station after the actual loading but before the "Shall we leave now?"-check
16:24:08  <peter1138> it's easily possible
16:24:30  <peter1138> a train waits 40 ticks between loading steps
16:24:51  <blathijs> Yes, but I assume it loads and then decides to leave?
16:25:07  <blathijs> or does it wait for 40 ticks, decides to leave or not and then loads?
16:25:27  <peter1138> pass
16:25:39  <blathijs> that would be stupid :-)
16:25:48  <Maedhros> crap, full load is broken if the train arrives full :-(
16:25:54  <blathijs> Darkvater: Another nasty example: If I have a mail wagon (30 capacity) and a bunch of passenger wagons (40 capacity), currently it will leave with only 30 passengers (provided ther is enough mail and passengers at the station)
16:26:02  <blathijs> Darkvater: (that's with current behaviour)
16:26:10  * blathijs continues cooking
16:26:14  <Maedhros> blathijs: that's what the original patch is supposed to fix
16:26:33  <Darkvater> why would it leave? Neither one is full
16:28:19  <peter1138> station with 100 mail, 100 pax: train with 1 mail (cap 30) and 1 passenger (cap 40)
16:28:23  <peter1138> load amount of 10
16:28:28  <peter1138> first go: 10, 10
16:28:30  <peter1138> second go: 20, 20
16:28:34  <peter1138> third go: 30, 30
16:28:40  <peter1138> ah, full load any... mail is full
16:28:41  <peter1138> let's go
16:28:51  <peter1138> but without gradual loading, it would've loaded 30, 40
16:29:59  <hylje> maybe make the wagons load by the same relative speed
16:30:12  <hylje> so they'd fill up in the same time, given abundant cargo
16:30:30  <Darkvater> peter1138: perhaps it should finish the current load-loop?
16:30:36  <Darkvater> since it is "instant"
16:31:05  <peter1138> it will finish it, at 30, 30
16:31:10  <peter1138> or... i don't quite get what you mean
16:31:33  <Darkvater> eh nvm
16:31:35  <Darkvater> misread
16:31:43  <Darkvater> yes it finishes at 30, 30
16:31:56  <Darkvater> what would jezus do?
16:32:38  <peter1138> delegate
16:32:41  <Tefad> what would jesus bomb?
16:32:56  <Tefad> what the conservatives tell him? : x
16:33:18  <peter1138> they'd privatise it
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16:34:54  <blathijs> Darkvater: "Finishing the current load loop" == wait until there is no more loadable cargo
16:34:57  <blathijs> ie, 2)
16:37:11  <Darkvater> current loop is the loop of all wagons of a vehicle no?
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16:39:24  <blathijs> Darkvater: depends on what you meant with "current load loop" :-)
16:40:23  <Darkvater> donnu ;p
16:40:42  <blathijs> I interpreted "finish the load loop" as "finish gradual loading"
16:41:06  <blathijs> anyway, I think 2) would be the option to go
16:42:26  <blathijs> 3) is already implemented ( Maedhros' patch ), but is more complicated and less wanted than 2) in my (and other people's here) opinion
16:43:02  <Darkvater> what was 3?
16:43:06  <blathijs> IOW, we either leave it as-is, or do 2) (which should be trivial to do from Maedhros' patch)
16:43:09  <Darkvater> sorry this really confuses me
16:43:41  <Maedhros> 3 is leave when one cargo is full, unless there's enough cargo waiting to completely fill another cargo type
16:43:43  <blathijs> Darkvater: 3) is continue loading if there is more cargo to load, but only if we can fully fill up another cargo type
16:43:54  <blathijs> yes
16:44:20  * blathijs needs to finish cooking and start eating :-)
16:44:22  <Darkvater> is that check done at the moment that any cargo is full?
16:44:38  * blathijs afk
16:44:39  <Darkvater> and what is 2?
16:44:40  <Darkvater> :)
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16:54:46  <peter1138> guys
16:54:49  <peter1138> important question
16:55:00  <peter1138> are we doing 0.5 RC1 or 0.5.0 RC1 ?
16:55:09  <Darkvater> 0.5.0-RC1
16:55:12  <peter1138> ok
16:55:14  <Darkvater> or not?
16:55:25  <peter1138> good
16:55:44  <Darkvater> or 0.5-RC1?
16:55:47  <peter1138> that means when someone says they're "using 0.5" we know they're lying :)
16:56:23  <peter1138> let's change the scheme :D
16:56:31  <peter1138> 0.5, 0.5a... hehe
16:56:46  <Darkvater> :D
16:58:15  <Belugas> 0.5.0 RC1?  naaaaa...let's call it... hem... "Kirby"  new scheme name!
16:58:28  <Belugas> or whatever is the first loco name avaialble...
16:58:43  <Belugas> so Kirby RC1
16:58:46  <peter1138> OpenTTD 2006
16:58:53  <peter1138> then SP1
16:59:05  <peter1138> although it would be called 2007, hee
17:01:14  <Belugas> i like that :D
17:02:29  <Belugas> in here, our softwares are labeled on compile of major version : (200)5.7.7, 6.5.24 etc...
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17:10:17  <Maedhros> feck it. Rubidium's scenario does happen, except that trains don't even finish unloading
17:11:31  <Maedhros> and none of the patches so far will fix it...
17:15:32  *** Neonox [] has joined #openttd
17:17:44  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7534 /website/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [Website]: Make server_details page W3C valid, put the grfcrawler link into the header file and add a seperating line between 'grf usage' title and newgrfs list
17:19:22  <Darkvater> gotta run
17:19:25  <Darkvater> we'll branch tonight
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17:23:19  <blathijs> Darkvater: We should really do 0.5.0, not 0.5 IMO
17:24:24  <Darkvater> it's 0.5.0 at the moment blathijs
17:24:30  <Darkvater> (readme/changelog)
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17:28:36  * Brianetta is all, like, yey, 0.5.0
17:29:22  <Wolf01> 'evening
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17:38:50  <FlashFF> is anyone alive in here?
17:39:02  <blathijs> Darkvater: 2 is depart as soon as any cargo is full and there is no other cargo that can be loaded right away
17:39:10  <blathijs> FlashFF: Yup
17:39:14  <Darkvater> define 'right away'
17:39:21  <FlashFF> know anything about dedi servers?
17:39:42  <FlashFF> im trying to run a linux dedi server, and it doesnt seem to be able to list on the master server list
17:39:47  <blathijs> right away, means without waiting for the industry to generate more cargo
17:40:16  <Darkvater> so it keeps loading as long as there is cargo on the station
17:40:40  <Darkvater> even cargo that arrives after it has decided to load cargo and thus can keep the train there until it is relaly full load not just full-load any
17:42:10  <Darkvater> bb tonight though
17:42:38  <blathijs> Darkvater: well, I was hoping that couldn't happen
17:43:47  <blathijs> It will load cargo that arrives after the first load, but it should not stay indefinitely. Yet, since the check is done before the actual loading, it could potentially keep a train stuck
17:44:19  <blathijs> though I think cargo is loaded more often than industries generate it
17:45:02  <Maedhros> yeah, but industries can generate more than a train can load at one time ;)
17:45:26  <blathijs> true, but if a train is fully busy loading the entire time, it shouldn't be a problem
17:45:51  <blathijs> the full load on any thing should prevent a train waiting in a station doing (hardly) nothing
17:46:09  <blathijs> if a train is in a station loading up at maximum speed, that shouldn't be a problem IMO
17:46:59  <Maedhros> true
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17:55:14  <blathijs> Maedhros: hmm, it seems the industries only feed cargo once every tile loop
17:55:16  <peter1138> hello
17:55:21  <peter1138> when is that?
17:55:31  <blathijs> Industry_TileLoop
17:55:39  <peter1138> when, not where :)
17:55:50  <blathijs> how do you mean?
17:55:54  <peter1138> how often...
17:55:59  <blathijs> not sure
17:56:04  <blathijs> I think once every 256 ticks
17:56:16  <blathijs> See RunTileLoop
17:56:24  <blathijs> (No comments on how often...)
17:56:44  <peter1138> hmm
17:56:49  <blathijs> anyway, it's less often than the vehicle loading, which happens every tick
17:57:01  <blathijs> (at least the check to continue does)
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17:57:42  <peter1138> hmm
17:57:54  <peter1138> but it waits 40 ticks (for trains)
17:57:59  <blathijs> So, the loading cannot get stuck while the industry continues to poor in little bits of cargo
17:58:06  <peter1138> ok
17:58:06  <blathijs> peter1138: yes, but the check is seperate
17:58:09  <peter1138> :)
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17:59:06  <blathijs> peter1138: CanFillVehicle is first called, every tick. If it returns true, LoadUnloadVehicle is called, which (I expect) noops 39 out of 40 ticks
18:00:24  <blathijs> So, AFAICS we should modify Maedhros' diff to implement option 2, commit it and be done with it. Perhaps the whole load/unload thing should be redesigned somewhere in the future, though
18:01:18  <blathijs> But, I don't have anymore time until tomorrow, so perhaps peter1138 could take this up together with Maedhros to finish it tonight? (Branch and presumable release is scheduled for tonight)
18:02:28  *** Nigel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:03:38  <peter1138> i won't be able to
18:03:44  <Maedhros> blathijs: actually, the if (--v->load_unload_time_rem) return; line above means it is only checked every 40 ticks
18:04:03  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: bin wech....]
18:04:25  <blathijs> Maedhros: hmm, crap. You're right...
18:04:33  <Maedhros> well, we can backport the patch to the 0.5.0 branch, and there's this bug i have to try and fix...
18:04:37  <blathijs> still, that _should_ be less than the tile loop frequency
18:04:44  * blathijs is off
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18:07:14  <Maedhros> bah, i need an  unless  operator in C :-P
18:07:28  <hylje> if(!var) ?
18:07:48  <Rubidium> FlashFF: do you get "We are advertised on the master server" and "Advertising to master server" when you run "./openttd -d net=2 -D" ?
18:07:50  <Maedhros> yeah, i just need to think about all the boolean inside it :)
18:11:54  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
18:14:58  <Zavior> Is 0.5.0 coming soon? :op
18:16:52  <FlashFF> Rubidium: nope, it says its advertising, but not that its advertised
18:18:06  <FlashFF> the ports all appear to be forwarded ok, and i even chucked the server in the DMZ to see if that would help, but nothing
18:18:30  <Rubidium> did you forward the UDP _and_ TCP ports?
18:18:35  <Rubidium> !openttd ports
18:19:16  <FlashFF> yeah i did
18:19:26  <glx> !openttd port
18:19:26  <_42_> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
18:20:02  <FlashFF> yeah, so i should need to forward tcp and udp 3979 only yeah
18:20:12  <FlashFF> as outbound connections arent stopped by my router
18:20:24  <Rubidium> exactly
18:20:31  <FlashFF> yeah,  thats done
18:20:46  <FlashFF> funny thing is, it actually managedto adverties just once earlier
18:20:51  <FlashFF> *advertise
18:20:57  <Rubidium> what OS?
18:21:04  <FlashFF> slackware 10.2
18:24:04  <Rubidium> my game just gets advertised, so it must be a network configuration problem at your end
18:24:17  <FlashFF> hmmm
18:24:20  <FlashFF> that sux
18:24:31  <FlashFF> probably my dodgy router lol
18:24:43  <FlashFF> i want my linksys back *cries*
18:24:48  <Rubidium> maybe slackware's firewall?
18:25:17  <Rubidium> why would you use a dodgy router anyway, can't you make a bridge of it?
18:25:31  <FlashFF> hmm?
18:27:00  <FlashFF> router have never caused me any probs, but im having to use an SMC baricade atm until i get a new linksys
18:27:04  <Rubidium> some routers can be made a transparant bridge, which means that the computer connected to the bridge (can be only one in most cases) gets the IP address the router would usually get
18:27:17  <FlashFF> and its giving me nothing but hell
18:27:56  <FlashFF> well essentially usng port forwarding does that anyway, it just allows me to run services on all the pcs in my house on the same ip a bit easier
18:28:50  <FlashFF> if i used a bridge, only my linux box could take the ip and eveything else would share the connection
18:29:07  * Rubidium has his own linux box doing the routering and lets the ADSL 'router' be a bridge. Makes a lot of things much easier :)
18:30:51  <FlashFF> lol
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18:40:30  <Rubidium> peter1138: I do not like the sound of: Error: File ``dtsetprw.grf'' lost in cache.
18:40:33  <Rubidium> Error: File ``dtsetprw.grf'' lost in cache.
18:41:40  <peter1138> yeah... i can never replicate :/
18:41:59  <peter1138> was it static or not?
18:42:33  <Rubidium> no it wasn't
18:44:14  <Rubidium> now I can't replicate it either anymore :(
18:45:01  <Rubidium> ah... finally
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19:00:43  <Maedhros> ok, this should fix both things (finally!) -
19:01:20  <Maedhros> although please test to make sure it won't spontanously combust ;)
19:01:33  <peter1138> that looks a simpler :)
19:01:35  <peter1138> -a
19:04:32  <Biff> doh, when i have a train with passenger and mail wagons, only the mail wagons are filled up at the station
19:04:42  * Maedhros cries
19:04:53  <Maedhros> Biff: that's what that patch fixes ;)
19:04:58  <Biff> really?
19:05:12  <Maedhros> yeah (i'm assuming you use full load and gradual loading?)
19:05:14  <Biff> i saw it in the game just now
19:05:19  <Biff> yup, exactly
19:05:54  <Biff> want me to try your patch?
19:05:59  <Maedhros> please :)
19:06:44  <Biff> i havent used patch in a year or so, hold on
19:08:51  <Biff> building
19:09:24  *** LadyHawk [] has joined #openttd
19:09:30  <Biff> trying now :)
19:10:37  <Biff> i think the train uses about 15 minutes
19:10:47  <Biff> real time :/
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19:17:41  <Biff> Maedhros: no good
19:18:10  <Biff> weird
19:19:01  <Maedhros> hmm. do any passengers get loaded at all?
19:19:27  <Biff> first train that went trough was ackward, it seemed to be loading and unloading at the same time
19:19:30  <Biff> hmm
19:19:41  <Biff> ah
19:19:52  <Biff> ok
19:19:55  <hylje> thats a fine idea
19:19:59  <Biff> i ran two tests
19:20:13  <hylje> would be rather cool to have pax/mail un/load at the same time
19:20:23  <Biff> 1) empty train: now got 30 of 40 passengers in each passenger wagon
19:20:30  <Biff> and 30 of 30 mail
19:20:35  <Biff> in each wagon
19:21:14  <Biff> 2) full train that came to the station, the numbers were going up and down, when it left it had 20/40 passenger, 30/30 mail
19:22:15  <Maedhros> any chance you could send me your savegame? what version are you using as well?
19:22:28  <Biff> sure, sec
19:24:21  <Biff> version is 7518, i'll try with newest
19:24:24  <Biff>,%207th%20Nov%201976.sav
19:25:10  *** io]nowhere [] has joined #openttd
19:25:29  <io]nowhere> hi
19:25:56  <io]nowhere> if you save a multiplayer game, and then load it as single player, is there some way to select a specific company to join?
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19:30:19  <Maedhros> Biff: heh, that's quite a few trains. any i should be watching in particular?
19:30:41  <Biff> yeah, i should probably mention that :P
19:30:52  <hylje> "oops"
19:30:59  <Biff> its the only passenger trains, which go beetwhen eggeslette and hakastulen
19:31:07  <Biff> (where company hq is)
19:31:14  <hylje> io]nowhere: afaik no, but you can cheat your way around
19:31:31  <Biff> Maedhros: trying the newest version now
19:32:07  <Maedhros> ok, cool
19:32:32  <Maedhros> i'm quite impressed my laptop is coping with this, although fast forward has no effect at all :)
19:32:47  <io]nowhere> you shouldn't, the game is over 10 years old
19:32:47  <hylje> :p
19:33:04  <hylje> not really
19:33:07  <Biff> the original game was real slow
19:33:18  <Biff> when you had the maximum amount of trains
19:33:18  <hylje> its that the game scales up really well
19:33:27  <io]nowhere> well I only played TTD
19:33:44  <Biff> fast forward is pretty fast here
19:34:12  <Biff> cpu runs only at 1600MHz
19:34:24  <Biff> wops
19:34:28  <io]nowhere> that's a fast computer
19:34:30  <Maedhros> heh, as opposed to my laptop which runs at 500MHz ;)
19:34:31  <Biff> there is a wrong signal at eggeslette
19:34:45  <Biff> at the entrance
19:35:21  <io]nowhere> when openttd was released most people had 386/486?
19:35:37  <Biff> i think i had a 486sx
19:35:44  <io]nowhere> no internet and the lucky ones had a pentium mmx
19:35:51  <Biff> Maedhros: ok, it works now
19:35:54  <io]nowhere> running at... 200mhz?
19:35:54  <Biff> my build was bad
19:36:04  <Biff> dont remember
19:36:06  <Maedhros> Biff: yay! :)
19:36:09  <io]nowhere> so compare that with your 1600 MHz computer :)
19:36:14  <Biff> sorry about the false alert :/
19:36:16  <Maedhros> thanks for testing it :)
19:36:26  <Biff> io]nowhere: its 2400x2
19:36:26  <Biff> :P
19:36:36  <Biff> i just run it with speedstepping
19:36:48  <hylje> ive a 1.7
19:36:58  <hylje> which scales down to 1.4
19:36:59  <hylje> :o
19:37:02  <io]nowhere> I'm starting to get confused here, you say your laptop is slow?
19:37:13  <Biff> this is a desktop computer
19:37:23  <Biff> my laptop is 2ghz
19:37:32  <Biff> which scales down to 800 i think
19:38:14  <hylje> ive been looking for a newer lappy
19:38:25  <hylje> but currently this one has the best display you can get
19:38:37  <hylje> for this size generally
19:38:42  <Biff> i liked my old better
19:38:49  <Biff> 17" is too big
19:38:58  <hylje> 'tiss 15"
19:39:09  <Biff> yup, my old was 15.4" i think
19:39:16  <Biff> that was quite good
19:39:20  <hylje> i got a slightly smaller 13" too, but its display is somewhat dead
19:39:38  <hylje> well, 17" and higher arent really portable
19:39:42  <Biff> only thing wrong with my old laptop was the broadcom wireless card
19:39:58  <hylje> i has intel wireless here
19:40:06  <Biff> yep
19:40:07  <hylje> works quite great
19:40:17  <Biff> yeah, intel hardware usually works very good
19:40:42  <Biff> they are quite good on linux, even tho OSS maniacs dont like them :P
19:41:36  <hylje> yes
19:42:14  <Biff> last built railtype should be in savegame, not only in memory :/
19:42:36  <hylje> agree
19:42:48  <hylje> on coop we get occassionally people forgetting to turn elrails on
19:43:01  <Biff> i just did now
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19:43:35  <lolman> Ello :)
19:43:40  <hylje> :<
19:44:06  <Biff> someone was talking about signals on brigdes the other day, but i cant seem to get it working?
19:44:15  <Biff> or maybe i misunderstood something
19:44:38  <hylje> whether it exists or not.. it isnt in trunk
19:45:52  <io]nowhere> yeah we need signals in tunnels as well
19:45:57  <io]nowhere> and tunnels for ships :(
19:46:03  <hylje> and bendy tunnels and bridges
19:46:05  <hylje> and and..
19:46:14  <io]nowhere> yep
19:46:16  <hylje>
19:46:35  <io]nowhere> no u?
19:46:46  <io]nowhere> that's mean..
19:47:30  <Biff> pretty scary with signals in tunnels if you place them wrong though
19:47:31  <Biff> :P
19:48:19  <io]nowhere> lol I once stopped all busses from another player in a tunnel :)
19:48:37  <io]nowhere> took him like 30 min to find out, I was doing it, with one of my busses
19:50:01  <hylje> deathmatch, lol
19:50:37  <Darkvater> back
19:50:42  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
19:50:44  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7534 /website/ (includes/ server_detail.php templates/server_detail.tpl) (2006-12-21 17:17:34 UTC)
19:50:46  <_42_> [Website]: Make server_details page W3C valid, put the grfcrawler link into the header file and add a seperating line between 'grf usage' title and newgrfs list
19:50:52  <Darkvater> hmm no gradual loading fix?
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19:51:04  <peter1138> he can't commit it
19:51:53  <peter1138> but you can :D
19:52:31  <Digitalfox> So from now on is bug fixing for the release of 0.5 !!
19:52:55  <Digitalfox> How do we know that the nightly is the RC1?
19:53:12  <peter1138> the nightly is never an RC
19:53:18  <Biff> is there a releasedate?
19:53:56  <Darkvater> peter1138: is it committable?
19:54:07  <peter1138> eh
19:54:08  <Biff> shouldnt it be svn copied to tags or something for a RC?
19:54:09  <peter1138> it looked ok
19:54:13  <Digitalfox> I saw in the changelog of svn the " Update appropiate files with release information for 0.5.0-RC1 " so if it isn't released as i nightly, how will it?
19:54:35  <SpComb> Logs:
19:54:35  <Digitalfox> !logs
19:54:36  <Darkvater> peter1138: looked is not very positive ;)
19:54:52  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: please, have a little faith
19:55:23  <peter1138> nighlies are never released. tum te tum
19:55:27  <peter1138> +t
19:55:36  <hylje> nightlies are technically released on each commit
19:55:38  <io]nowhere> hmm question, is it possible to have openttd write serverlogs?
19:55:52  <io]nowhere> so I can read back what players have been saying etc?
19:55:55  <Digitalfox> Darkvader: I have a little faith.. I admire the openttd team for their support and work.. :)
19:56:01  <SpComb> Logs:
19:56:01  <Born_Acorn> !logs
19:56:04  <Biff> is it released just because it have been built?
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19:56:07  <Rubidium> yes, though you might have to implement it first :)
19:56:35  <Rubidium> Darkvater & peter1138: <- yes I know it is a mess :(
19:56:53  <peter1138> "it have"? Biff is bjarni is disguise?
19:57:03  <peter1138> *in
19:57:22  <Naksu> now we know where the b in bjarni comes from
19:57:37  <hylje> :O
19:57:41  <Biff> peter1138: huh?
19:57:41  <Biff> :)
19:57:46  <Biff> oh
19:58:17  <Biff> sorry, my english sucks
19:58:19  <peter1138> :)
19:58:24  <peter1138> so does bjarni's...
20:00:09  <Biff> i dont use it nearly enough
20:00:36  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:00:37  <Biff> i just write a weird language that most of the worlds population does not understand
20:00:39  <Darkvater> ok Rubidium that needs some more time...
20:00:56  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
20:01:09  <Rubidium> what the patch does: it removes duplicate static GRFs on loading/newgames, it removes an eventual duplicate static GRF if you add one in the in-game GRF window and it adds the static GRF when a non-static GRF is removed (if needed)
20:01:28  <peter1138> Biff, you're not disuading me that you're not bjarni :)
20:04:06  <Biff> peter1138: he appears to be of danish heritage
20:04:53  * Rubidium has no idea how to make that patch much nicer though and I've got to go for a while; feel free to improve the patch.
20:05:07  <Rubidium> while as in appr. 2 hours
20:08:58  *** egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19:30  <Biff> new ai is looking very good
20:21:08  *** egladil [] has joined #openttd
20:23:10  <kampasky> is that the one building just roads?
20:24:33  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: PandaMojo]
20:26:05  <Biff> yep
20:26:22  <Biff> but the roads are good
20:26:29  <Biff> and the ai makes decent money
20:26:45  <Born_Acorn>
20:27:03  <Born_Acorn> He seems to have the DOS data files and is using Windows GRF files
20:27:27  <peter1138> heh
20:27:51  <Born_Acorn> thanks a lot peter1138 for putting that 2cc thing into his head! :p
20:33:09  <Born_Acorn> If you squint hard enough you can see that the wing is that awful reddish colour that screams palette incompatibilities.
20:33:19  <Born_Acorn> How did you and Dalestan miss that? :p
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20:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the picture is not exactly great quality ;)
20:39:25  <Darkvater> so is the Maedhros patch good?
20:39:57  <Born_Acorn> Diagonal crossings!
20:40:00  <Born_Acorn> (or not)
20:41:05  <Biff> Darkvater: seems to work good
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20:41:50  <Biff> been using it for an hour now
20:41:55  <Biff> a bit more maybe
20:42:13  <Born_Acorn> Which patch?
20:42:17  <Born_Acorn> I must know!
20:42:24  <Biff> loading fix
20:42:27  <Born_Acorn> Or I shall explode, getting stains on all
20:42:34  <Born_Acorn> ah
20:42:52  <Biff> there was a bug when gradual loading and leave when one cargo type was enabled
20:44:56  <Maedhros> actually, keep_loading might as well be a bool in that patch
20:45:47  <Biff> Maedhros: so the user can choose?
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20:47:41  <peter1138> hm
20:48:17  <Maedhros> nah, it's just using a bitmask for no good reason - it won't change the effect :)
20:48:23  <Darkvater> Maedhros: keep_loading is only checked for being checked, so boolean is good, yes
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20:49:29  <Biff> ah
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20:50:10  <Darkvater> so patch's still not done.. *sigh*
20:50:25  <Maedhros>
20:50:33  <peter1138> i wonder if "Updated Option ROM placement process" would fix my issue
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20:51:00  <Biff>
20:51:15  * Maedhros whistles innocently
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20:51:24  <Biff> i hope my computer doesnt start compiling everything from scratch now :X
20:51:31  <Darkvater> gentoo devs must not be too picky about constness I guess :)
20:51:32  * Darkvater hides
20:51:59  <Maedhros> pfft, i'm a forums admin, who occasionally patches phpBB. what can you expect? :-P
20:52:40  <hylje> i can expect that you havent investigated django
20:53:55  <Darkvater> ok very well; committing
20:54:00  <Darkvater> what's the commit message?
20:54:01  <peter1138> \o/
20:54:04  <Maedhros> heh, if you fancy migrating a 15GB database, go for it ;)
20:54:11  <peter1138> hmmm
20:54:16  <peter1138> 8:50pm
20:54:19  <peter1138> i ought to go home...
20:54:32  <valhallasw> Maedhros: only 15GB? enwiki is 36 :P
20:54:47  <valhallasw> note: not including the text table
20:54:52  <Darkvater> and what revision to reference?
20:56:00  <Maedhros> Darkvater: "-Fix (r7326): Always unload cargo if the station accepts it, and always load cargo if it's available with full load any"
20:56:30  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7535 /trunk/vehicle.c:
20:56:30  <CIA-1> -Fix (r7326): Always unload cargo if the station accepts it, and always load cargo
20:56:30  <CIA-1>  if it's available with full load any (Maedhros)
20:56:38  <Maedhros> valhallasw: epenis++, eh ;)
20:56:45  <valhallasw> :P
20:57:00  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7536 /branches/0.5/: -Branch: add 0.5 branch
20:57:01  <Darkvater> there and done
20:57:09  <Maedhros> yay! :)
20:57:34  <Darkvater> svn is stuck again...
20:59:21  <Darkvater> I need to apply a few patches, some minor commits and then we can tag 0.5.0-RC1
20:59:30  <Darkvater> and disable NPF for ships...again
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21:10:21  <blathijs> ah, just missed it :-)
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21:15:18  <Wolf01> peter1138, i've a little problem to show the string in the dropdown menu, it shows the company name or other unreadable things and the game crashes after some seconds
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21:17:56  <lolman> Oh Noes...
21:20:59  <Darkvater> Wolf01: peter is gone home and he doesn't have internet atm there
21:21:43  <Wolf01> he is the only person who know how works the newstation gui?
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21:22:31  <Darkvater> well probably not, but he is one
21:22:43  <Darkvater> all others are either not here, don'tknow, or are busy releasing
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21:43:43  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:51:11  * Rubidium is back...
21:51:46  <Rubidium> Darkvater: any ideas where my patch can be made better?
21:52:04  <Darkvater> sorry haven't looked at it
21:52:16  <Darkvater> I really want to get RC1 out tonight
21:52:26  <Rubidium> that's OK
21:52:33  <Darkvater> I glanced at it and saw it got bigger and bigger ;p
21:54:24  <Rubidium> better to _not_ hurry the patch then :)
21:54:44  <Rubidium> anything I can help with?
21:55:40  <Darkvater> not for RC1 atm
21:55:59  <Rubidium> ok
21:56:14  <Naksu> Darkvater: i think you should take a leaf from the book of game studioes
21:56:20  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7537 /trunk/changelog.txt: -Forgot added VS80 support from Makefile
21:56:21  <Naksu> like, just release i
21:56:23  <Naksu> *it
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21:57:13  <Darkvater> hmm shall I or shall I not put minidump files into svn
21:57:29  <Darkvater> or compile win32 binary seperately outside of SVN with those changes?
21:59:13  * Rubidium has no idea where those minidump files are useful for; only minidumps he knows is the 'setting' for the kind of dump windows must make on a crash
21:59:29  <Darkvater> a minidump is ilke a crashlog
21:59:40  <Naksu> ah
21:59:44  <Darkvater> if you have that + the executable that it was created with you can load it in visual studio
21:59:49  <Naksu> thanks for reminding me to disable the minidumps
21:59:59  <Darkvater> and get a full stack trace and debug information
22:00:04  <Naksu> (reinstalled windows today)
22:00:15  <Darkvater> much better than just a single line saying 'program X crashed at address Y'
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22:00:42  <Rubidium> so basically they should be made for MSVC release compiles?
22:00:42  <Peakki> hello
22:01:02  <Darkvater> yes, win32 only...the question is if I should put the diff into svn, or compile on the side
22:01:09  <Rubidium> hmm, without the question mark
22:01:12  <Darkvater> only for release candidates though
22:01:41  <Rubidium> why no minidumps for release compiles?
22:01:45  <Rubidium> hello Peakki
22:01:55  <Darkvater> for 0.5 final?
22:02:04  <Rubidium> for example
22:02:17  <Darkvater> cause for non-winxp you have to distribute debug.dll files and I'm not expecting it to crash ;p
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22:04:01  <Darkvater> hmm
22:04:05  <Darkvater>
22:04:09  <Darkvater> what to do with this...
22:05:53  <Rubidium> +bool new_pathfinding_ships; /* Use the newest pathfinding algorithm for ships */ <- NPF is newer than YAPF? :)
22:06:30  <Darkvater> that was before yapf :)
22:06:48  <Rubidium> why only differentiate for ships? and not a setting for trains, rvs and ships?
22:07:09  <Darkvater> cause NPF for ships SUCKS
22:07:24  <Darkvater> even if you're using about 10 ships it can eat 100% CPU
22:08:05  <Darkvater> plan was to fix it for 0.5...but got forgotten
22:08:12  <Darkvater> or put on the backburner
22:08:16  <Rubidium> hmm, ok, but isn't YAPF enabled by default for ships?
22:08:40  <KUDr> no
22:08:50  <Darkvater> hmm yeah I guess this patch might be obsolete...people will use YAPF anyways
22:08:55  <KUDr> YAPF is also not very fast for ships
22:09:28  <KUDr> YAPF is disabled for ships i think
22:09:31  <Rubidium> ok, I would say: add it, but align the SDT_BOOL stuff with the rest
22:09:32  <KUDr> by defauld
22:09:34  <KUDr> t
22:09:50  <Rubidium> and change newest -> new
22:10:26  <Darkvater> Rubidium: adding it would need savegame saving and could cause problems for newer versions
22:11:32  <Darkvater> I'll just leave it off...
22:11:48  <Rubidium> why? just save it in the .cfg and in savegames for network games; that would be enough I guess
22:12:05  <Rubidium> those other penalties aren't stored in the savegame either, or are they?
22:12:15  <Darkvater> they are
22:12:17  <Darkvater> for syncing
22:12:57  <Darkvater> npf is off by default as well
22:13:24  <KUDr> ships should use OPF for ships by default
22:13:28  * Rubidium meant to say: those penalties aren't stored in the on-disk savegame (they are for network-sent savegames), or are they?
22:13:38  <Darkvater> KUDr: they do atm
22:13:49  <KUDr> but for 0.5.0
22:14:00  <Darkvater> everything that's saved is saved for each savegame regardless of MP or not
22:14:05  <Darkvater> KUDr: yes also in MP
22:14:25  <Darkvater> OPF: on, NPF: off, YAPF: on (except for ship, so ship uses OPF)
22:18:10  <Darkvater> ok people have fun
22:18:10  <KUDr> ok
22:18:20  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7538 /tags/0.5.0-RC1/ (. Makefile network.c openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): Release 0.5.0-RC1
22:18:54  <KUDr> wow!
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22:22:11  <glx> hi re06011988 :)
22:22:54  <re06011988> hi glx
22:23:15  <re06011988> hello all (sorry for my poor english ^^)
22:23:39  <Darkvater> Rubidium what you can help is build *nix libraries or the source release :)
22:23:51  <Darkvater> eh executables
22:23:56  * Darkvater never does those
22:24:08  <Darkvater> I can do source I guess though..but windows is handful enough
22:24:38  <Rubidium> would have done that in a few minutes (waiting) in makefile rewrite :)
22:24:52  <Darkvater> yes, you can merge that now
22:25:02  <Darkvater> although probably we should let celestar do bridges first
22:25:22  <Rubidium> didn't mean that, with MakefileRewrite you could automatically make it package the needed files :)
22:25:36  <glx> I'm not sure compile farm will handle the makefile rewrite configure flags
22:25:58  <Rubidium> I'm almost sure it will not :)
22:26:23  <Darkvater> he, forgot some more things from changelog..the added languages :(
22:26:27  <Rubidium> will need to do some testing with True(Brain|Light) for that
22:26:29  <Darkvater> oh well; next time
22:26:33  <Darkvater> LightBrain
22:26:35  <Darkvater> ^^
22:26:44  <Darkvater> don't tell him I said that ;p
22:26:47  * Darkvater hides quickly
22:27:10  <Rubidium> you know his 'spy' is here :)
22:28:13  <Rubidium> Darkvater: what about the topic of this channel?
22:28:26  <Rubidium> 0.5.0-rc1?
22:28:27  <Darkvater> :)
22:28:54  *** Darkvater changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC1 out! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
22:30:23  <Darkvater> :)
22:31:44  <re06011988> good job all devellopeurs
22:31:48  <re06011988> i love you
22:32:02  <re06011988> (your job ^^)
22:36:19  <Darkvater> ok, who aligned bulgarian with tabs?
22:36:30  <Darkvater> ah
22:36:34  <Darkvater> bad line endings...
22:36:35  <Darkvater> dammit
22:43:02  <Rubidium> ok, I've made some binaries for unix
22:43:28  <Rubidium> though I hope the users got the required libraries :)
22:44:22  <Rubidium> Darkvater: <- there you can find them
22:45:15  <Darkvater> I meant more like .deb or .rpm
22:47:07  <Rubidium> .debs won't be very useful; I'm running unstable and that has much newer libraries than stable and .rpms... I've not even touched a RPM based system in about 5 years (as in: I had root-rights) :)
22:47:44  <Rubidium> and I've never made any .debs (or .rpms) either
22:48:01  <Sacro> shall i make a pkg.tar.gz? went down quite well last time
22:50:12  <Rubidium> for what OS are pkg.tar.gz?
22:51:10  <Sacro> Rubidium: arch linux mainly, but you can probably just tar -xjf -C / for most distros
22:51:50  <Rubidium> so they are basically my binaries, but with different paths :)
22:52:18  <Sacro> what are yours?
22:52:39  <Rubidium> generic unix (well, one with recent libraries :))
22:53:05  <Sacro> hmm, no md5sums
22:53:30  <Sacro> oh, tis at the top!
22:53:34  <Biff> Rubidium: why does running unstable exclude you from installing .deb files?
22:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause> not installing, creating some that install on other systems (dependencies)
22:54:20  <Biff> oh
22:54:24  <Rubidium> rather from creating them; the binaries for 'stable' should be linked against the 'stable' libraries
22:54:28  <Biff> ok
22:54:36  <Biff> i can compile for ubuntu at least
22:54:57  <XeryusTC> gn
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22:55:24  <Rubidium> though, as said before, I've got no experience making .debs and no debian-stable boxes either
22:55:42  <Biff> ok
22:56:04  <Biff> i can make the debs on sarge if required
22:56:37  <Rubidium> everything needed for it should already be in the SVN checkout
22:58:06  <Rubidium> maybe blathijs is still awake :)
23:00:19  <Rubidium> Darkvater: did you notify that Danish guy?
23:01:03  <Darkvater> ok win98 works :D
23:01:04  <Darkvater> now win95
23:01:08  <Darkvater> Rubidium: bjarni you mean?
23:01:13  <Rubidium> yup
23:01:24  <Sacro> roffle... he aint danish
23:01:28  <Sacro> or he aint dutch... one of the 2
23:01:29  <Darkvater> yes he is
23:01:31  <Darkvater> and now I haven't
23:01:49  <Darkvater> I mean no I haen't
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23:03:25  <Biff> ok, should i build for something?
23:10:27  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:10:43  <Darkvater> win95 works as well :D
23:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a win95 to test on? :p
23:11:19  <Darkvater> vmware
23:12:09  <Rubidium> is that win95A, or some W95 OSR-2.x?
23:12:28  <Darkvater> 95b or something
23:12:45  <Darkvater> but I made the win32 specific code pretty backwards compatible
23:12:51  <Rubidium> ah, that would be OSR-2.0 or so :)
23:16:33  <Darkvater> hmm
23:16:36  <Darkvater>
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23:16:54  <Darkvater> seems we only had source files + a .deb/.lha file last time
23:17:01  * Darkvater would love an .rpmm
23:17:25  <Darkvater> Rubidium: the problem with a single executable is that if you are missing libraries you're pretty screwed; not user-friendly
23:17:39  <Rubidium> Darkvater: true
23:18:02  <Rubidium> though the same holds for the nightlies
23:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need a dozen different .rpms
23:18:11  <Darkvater> Rubidium: nightlies are for hardcore people
23:18:21  <Rubidium> RC not?
23:18:30  <Darkvater> no, it's a much bigger public
23:18:53  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: I think doing SUSE, UBUNTU and FC is probably enough as linux binaries
23:19:45  <Rubidium> you'd better do debian sarge instead of ubuntu, as ubuntu should have the same or better libraries than debian sarge (not vice-versa)
23:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause> well, but wouldn't you need one for SuSE 10.2, 10.1, 10.0, 9.3 etc.?
23:20:05  <Biff> you only need binary packages for those distros who have users who doesnt know how to compile
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23:20:22  <Biff> Rubidium: etch rather
23:20:24  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: not really. It'd most probably work for all SUSE's
23:20:31  <Biff> noone will be playing on sarge
23:20:33  <Darkvater> although I have no idea how rpm works
23:20:41  <Rubidium> etch isn't released yet, right?
23:20:46  <Biff> correct
23:20:49  <Biff> but its frozen
23:21:09  <Biff> so it wont matter
23:21:28  <Rubidium> yeah, so we should release Windows Vista binaries, because Vista is frozen too :)
23:21:45  <Biff> doesnt the windows version run on vista?
23:22:09  <Biff> if not; yes
23:22:14  <Rubidium> it should due to backward compatability
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23:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know that the places who offer suse rpms (like packman) offer different rpms for the different versions
23:23:07  <Biff> but i can try building it on sarge and see if it runs on ubuntu
23:23:08  <Rubidium> but a binary compiled for WinXP does not run on Win9x, unless you do lots of trickery
23:23:36  <Biff> ok, but 9x->xp is a bigger change then xp->vista
23:24:31  <glx> Rubidium: using gcc with correct flags it works well
23:24:33  <Rubidium> true, but the principle is the same for the sarge vs etch question...
23:25:01  <Biff> Rubidium: ok, i may have misunderstood you
23:25:05  <glx> except if you use specific features
23:25:09  <Rubidium> glx: that is instructing gcc to compile for Win95, like you might be able to compile on etch for lower versions of libraries
23:25:21  <Biff> if it can be compiled for say debian woody and run on anything newer then thats good
23:25:45  <Rubidium> yes
23:26:48  <Biff> my only concern was if it didnt run on new versions, but i dont know if there is any chance for that
23:28:24  <Rubidium> libraries are usually backward compatible, not upward compatible, so something compiled for an older version should (normally) run on a newer version
23:28:51  <Darkvater> Rubidium: 9x>XP works like a charm if you don't use any XP specific windows XP and don't compile on VS2005
23:31:22  <Biff> ok
23:31:23  <Rubidium> I know, but what I'm trying to say is that a Win9x application should 'just' work on WinXP, but a WinXP application might not work on Win9x (but then for different versions of debian)
23:33:02  <Naksu> Rubidium: it not only should run, but it will
23:33:13  <Naksu> retarded programming excluded
23:33:27  <Rubidium> therefore I said should...
23:33:43  <Biff> there are alot of programs who fail to run when windows come in a new version
23:34:02  * Rubidium points to some retarded version of SimCity :)
23:34:55  <Naksu> Biff: the only ones i've seen are the ones that check for an explicit version of the OS and assumes something like 3.0 or no windows at all (wtf) if it cant find a recognized version
23:35:16  <glx> Rubidium: don't forget ttd (windows version) :)
23:35:51  <Biff> could be
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23:36:22  <Biff> i recall problems with windows every time i upgraded
23:36:29  <Naksu> well
23:36:41  <Rubidium> who here knows that Windows contains code to put the memory allocator in a special mode when SimCity is run?
23:36:42  <Naksu> my problem with vista is that it's a horrible POS
23:37:00  <Biff> Naksu: yep
23:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> everyone that followd this chat, Rubidium ;)
23:37:14  <Biff> ive even tried it :/
23:37:21  <Naksu> Biff: i have it installed
23:37:28  <Biff> ok
23:37:36  <Naksu> after a long time wrestling with the installed
23:37:39  <Naksu> *installer
23:37:41  <Biff> well, its on my media center computer
23:37:57  <Biff> and nothing is an improvment from xp
23:38:05  <Naksu> the installer barfs if you try to install to an unformatted partition, or try to format one
23:38:29  <Biff> but i feel pity for someone using it on a desktop computer
23:38:37  <Naksu> also, setting the default operating system in the boot config to something other than vista results in vista being entirely unbootable :D
23:38:49  <Biff> i see
23:39:57  <Naksu> ideally you could use the recovery console on the instal media to edit the boot loader settings, but that doesnt work either :D
23:40:53  <Naksu> also, the "windows classic" theme makes those gtk-themes that mimic windows look really good in comparison
23:40:55  <Biff> faced with all that i wouldnt bother installing
23:41:32  <Naksu> i havent bothered to log into vista at all after a day of using it
23:42:01  <Rubidium> I haven't even bothered trying to find a version to install :)
23:42:50  <Biff> im glad im using a os which actually can upgrade to new versions with ease
23:42:53  <Naksu> well, release-to-manufacturing version was leaked :D
23:43:16  <Naksu> Biff: OS/2?
23:43:20  <Naksu> :)
23:43:27  <Biff> nope
23:43:28  <Biff> :)
23:44:09  <Biff> a friend had OS/2 when i was young
23:44:23  <Biff> thats the only time ive ever used it
23:44:42  <Naksu> i tried installing it to my old laptop
23:44:52  <Naksu> didn't work :(
23:45:10  <Biff> i dont think it even works in vmware
23:45:17  <Biff> something weird with it
23:45:39  <HMage> I tried to install it when I was young, it was quite cool, but comparing to msdos it was booting up too slow and there were no interesting games to play on it.
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23:47:41  <Biff> oh well, sleep
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