Log for #openttd on 23rd December 2006:
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00:00:17  <FlashFF> hello sexy developers
00:00:27  <orudge> Why hello.
00:00:31  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
00:00:34  <FlashFF> who wants to answer a quick Q just to satisfy my curiosity?
00:01:14  <Digitalfox> Don't know what the question is or about, but go ahead!! :)
00:01:51  <FlashFF> The Q is this:  Many games implement features to ensure executables and libraries on each client are the same, such as hashing.  What type of system is in place in OpenTTD
00:02:33  <FlashFF> as in, What type of system stops someone alering the source then playing on a server with their dodgy copy?
00:02:51  <glx> usually the client desync
00:02:59  <FlashFF> and i hate my typing at this time of night
00:03:30  <FlashFF> usually?  so its not that theres a system stopping it, but some changes would case the client to function incorrectly yeah?
00:03:46  <FlashFF> *cause
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00:04:01  * FlashFF slaps hands for bad typing
00:04:12  <glx> a "hacked" client can work if the changes don't touch the game engine
00:04:28  <FlashFF> dodgy lol
00:05:02  <Rubidium> even more so, as it is an open source application, how can you trust any generated hash?
00:05:13  <Digitalfox> But doesn't the server game, see if the client is using a changed version? Like build version?
00:05:39  <FlashFF> good point rubidium
00:05:45  <FlashFF> lol
00:06:03  <Rubidium> the server doesn't know the version of the client
00:06:16  <glx> he just trust him
00:06:30  <glx> s/he/it
00:06:49  <Sacro> infinate number of library versions = infinate number of compiled versions
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00:07:06  <Digitalfox> Let me see is i got it.. I change the code of openttd to allow me to cheat and do whatever i want in a server game, and has long the build string is the one the server accepts, nothing stops me from doing this and cheating or crash a gserver game?
00:07:39  <ThePizzaKing> Digitalfox: You'll get desynced
00:07:48  <Rubidium> the server doesn't trust any incoming command and checks the command itself. If the check fails, the client is kicked (I think) (as the client should have tested it before sending).
00:07:51  <FlashFF> well i suppose to some extent cheating would be difficult, as you'd have to stay in sync with the server data, judging by what glx said
00:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> you cannot crash a server game, the server and all clients do the same calculations, and if they don't do exactly the same, the client is thrown out
00:08:41  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: the client kicks itself :)
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00:08:49  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: what does that mean? that the Scenario of Digitalfox doesn't work?
00:08:53  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: you can crash the server if there's a bug in the server's code :)
00:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was assuming there are no bugs ;)
00:09:22  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: lol :)
00:09:26  <glx> as it was with autoreplace and refit with wagons of the same type already in depot
00:09:32  <Rubidium> and crashing the server by sending illegal commands/whatever means there is a bug :)
00:10:14  <Digitalfox> ok.. I don't play a lot of openttd multiplayer games, so i don't know 100% the way of working.. But i actually thought there was some kind of hash checking.. :| To match the same code of oficial build's code
00:10:32  <Digitalfox> But i undersand now :)
00:10:39  <Digitalfox> *understand
00:10:43  <Rubidium> what happens is:
00:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, there is only a check of version strings
00:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> and nobody prevents you from changing that in your source code
00:11:07  <Rubidium> - the server sends his version and (since a few days) it's GRF IDs
00:11:30  <Rubidium> - the server sends his seed once every X frames
00:11:57  <DJGummikuh> Digitalfox: what good is that hash checking.. if you can alter your client so far that you can enable cheats and stuff you can alter the routine that generates the hash and send the hahs the server expects instead..
00:12:09  <Rubidium> the client _has_ to check whether the version matches his version, the GRFs match and whether the (random) seed is still the same
00:12:27  <DJGummikuh> grf?
00:12:39  <Rubidium> as in newgrf
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00:15:19  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: ah
00:15:21  <Rubidium> though the client is 'allowed' to ignore any of those, it will just means that the game state of the client diverges from the game state of the server in case of mismatches; it does not affect the server nor the other players
00:15:57  <DJGummikuh> when did 0.5.0-RC1 come out?
00:16:04  <DJGummikuh> because gentoo's portage doesn't have it yet
00:16:06  <glx> yesterday
00:16:26  <DJGummikuh> glx: ah that might be a reason ^^ :)
00:16:31  <Prof_Frink> all my troubles seemed so far away
00:16:39  <DJGummikuh> latest version in gentoo is 0.8.4
00:16:42  <glx> Prof_Frink: lol
00:16:45  <DJGummikuh> err 0.4.8
00:16:50  <DJGummikuh> Prof_Frink: hehe
00:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> why is it that there is never anything interesting on TV over christmas?
00:18:56  <glx> same here :)
00:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> [well, technically, s/over christmas//]
00:19:47  <glx> the more channel, the less interesting things
00:20:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: because you are not interested in the garbage the 'plebs' is interested in...
00:21:19  <Digitalfox> Here in Portugal thers nothing to see in TV, only crishtmas shows with music "popular"
00:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i have about 300 channels, and everything is garbage...
00:22:14  <Digitalfox> The only cool channels are AXN, Discovery and a little of MTV
00:23:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can't watch MTV here, cause for every minute of music, you get 5 minutes of ringtone commercials
00:23:06  * Rubidium has the feeling he only sees already seen programs on Discovery
00:23:52  <Digitalfox> I don't know if AXN is what other countrys call it.. But in Portugal AXN is a Sony channel, with CSI, A lot of cool movies, and a lot of cool made sony shows
00:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i usually like are series that have some kind of "red thread"
00:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> but they usually screw up the translation, and they are 1 year late here
00:25:52  <Rubidium> which means he has already seen them, due to the lack of interesting programs on the TV (see the vicious circle)
00:26:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly ;)
00:28:21  <Digitalfox> My biggest problem is that most of the shows when arrive in portugal, i have already see them like 6 months or 1 year earlier.. So why do i need to see TV?? :|
00:42:07  <DJGummikuh> hehe I saw a funny bug in 0.4.8 with the AI
00:42:25  <blathijs> Darkvater: I've checked the .debs from sf, md5 is ok
00:42:26  <glx> you know 0.4.8 is old now
00:42:27  <DJGummikuh> it tried to somehow steal my route I payed quite much for by building the same route next to it
00:42:33  <Prof_Frink> DJGummikuh: The AI *is* a bug
00:42:56  <blathijs> Darkvater: We should probably add a news item for 0.5.0-rc1 at sf?
00:43:04  <DJGummikuh> then I simply blocked all exits of his target station and looked him spending money to build and destroy the same bridge over and over again :D
00:43:21  <DJGummikuh> glx: yeah but 0.5 is not in portage yet :(
00:43:49  <blathijs> Hmm, who does the gentoo port anyway?
00:43:59  <DJGummikuh> blathijs: not me for sure ^^
00:44:24  <Sacro> blathijs: isnt it just a matter of updating the ebuild?
00:45:29  <DJGummikuh> hmm a question if i fusion with another company... does the ai stop doing stupid things then?
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00:45:40  <DJGummikuh> because I have the hard feeling it still creates stuff allthough I bought it
00:45:50  <DJGummikuh> the railways I'm just looking at weren't there half an hour ago
00:50:21  <Rubidium> maybe it is another AI?
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00:52:36  <blathijs> Sacro: I've never seen gentoo from the inside, so I wouldn't know
00:52:43  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: nah it's my color and I can control these trains
00:52:59  <blathijs> Darkvater: Will there be a windows64 build? The download page says there is, but it's not listed at SF
00:53:00  <Sacro> blathijs: im pretty sure it uses ebuilds to make packages using emerge
00:53:19  <Sacro> similar to Arch using PKGBUILDs to generate pkg.tar.gz, or RPM using spec files
00:53:34  <glx> blathijs: win64 builds will be available if michi_cc does them
00:54:42  <Sacro> glx: what do you need for doing win64 builds?
00:54:57  <glx> a win64 windows I guess
00:55:00  <Rubidium> my MSVC 2005 (32 bits edition) can compile x64 binaries, so I woudln't know why Darkvater cannot make them (unless he is using the free version of MSVC 2005)
00:55:16  <Sacro> yeah, i can create 64 bit binaries too
00:55:29  <blathijs> Sacro: I dunno, I've just spent the day setting up proper chroots for compiling both amd64 and i386 debian packages, which was quite some work (finding documentation, the setting up was easy)
00:55:32  <Rubidium> Sacro: you just need to install MSVC 2005 with support for x64 binaries
00:55:43  <Sacro> Rubidium: yeah... im pretty sure i have
00:56:16  <blathijs> I'll try crosscompiling for ppc and other debian archs in the future I guess
00:56:27  <blathijs> Just to see if I can get it to work :-)
00:56:27  <Sacro> ooh nice
00:56:37  <glx> my MSVC2005 skip openttd compilation when I select x64
00:56:45  <Sacro> i started doing an rpm
00:57:05  <Rubidium> you probably haven't installed the x64 stuff
00:57:22  <blathijs> Currently, I have a clean debian install in a tgz which gets extracted, all build dependencies automatically installed, then it compiles the package.
00:57:36  <Sacro>  whats the svn for 0.5.0-RC1?
00:57:40  <blathijs> kinda nice
00:57:49  <Rubidium> svn://
00:57:51  <blathijs> /tags/0.5.0-RC1 I think
00:58:14  <Sacro> checking out now
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00:59:09  <Ben_123> some spam: >> <<
00:59:46  <Ben_123> Seems to be in 5 places
01:01:04  <Sacro> orudge: ping
01:01:15  <orudge> pong?
01:01:17  <Sacro> even though i told him in #tycoon
01:01:17  <orudge> yes
01:01:18  <orudge> Ah.
01:02:17  <Ben_123> I like the way the google ad along the top also says "Delete porn history files" also.  This site has really changed!
01:02:41  <Sacro> hmm... compile of x64 failed
01:05:58  <blathijs> Darkvater: I've fixed the download page for the debs, you got _ instead of - in the filename. I've also added amd64, did you leave it out on purpose?
01:06:02  * blathijs is off to bed
01:06:04  <blathijs> gn!
01:07:23  <DJGummikuh> hey question in general is the chance for big planes to crash on small airports higher than on bigger airports?
01:07:53  <DJGummikuh> I had 5 jets the beginning of ther unning year and now it's may and 2 jets crashed at the same small airport
01:08:11  <Rubidium> yes, due to the shorter runway
01:08:19  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: hmm.... ok...
01:08:23  <DJGummikuh> let them crash.. ^^
01:09:24  <Born_Acorn> Small airports = plane crashes
01:09:36  <Born_Acorn> however, Bae 146s can land on small airports
01:10:03  <DJGummikuh> Bae 146s?
01:10:52  <Born_Acorn> Yes
01:10:57  <DJGummikuh> what is that? :)
01:11:04  <Born_Acorn> A plane?
01:11:05  <DJGummikuh> I just started playing again after 1 1/2 years
01:11:20  <DJGummikuh> don't remember much :)
01:11:23  <Born_Acorn> The TTD name is a bit different
01:11:25  <DJGummikuh> played mostly with trins
01:11:29  <Born_Acorn>
01:12:11  <DJGummikuh> ah ok
01:12:29  <DJGummikuh> well I am trying something bigger atm or so...
01:13:21  <DJGummikuh> anyways, I'm off to bed now :) cya guys thanx for the help
01:13:35  <Born_Acorn> <-- Small airports too
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01:22:18  <Rubidium> hmm, x64 builds in MSVC are broken (since r7299)
01:24:25  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7550 /trunk/openttd_vs80.vcproj: -Fix (r7299): compilation of x64 binaries with MSVC 2005, due to not telling that helpers.cpp should be compiled as C++ for x64.
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01:34:15  <Sacro> Rubidium: that needs to be flagged for 0.5.0
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03:21:38  <FlashFF> hello
03:22:29  <FlashFF> just playing a game of ottd online, and when i buy aircraft the cost comes out of aircraft running costs.  Is that an already known bug?
03:25:25  <Sacro> FlashFF: which version?
03:25:39  <FlashFF> 0.4.8
03:25:45  <Sacro> hmm...
03:25:53  <Sacro> should be fixed in 0.5.0-RC1
03:26:02  <FlashFF> k cool
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08:25:29  <Ailure> lovely
08:25:32  <Ailure> I join a random network game
08:25:40  <Ailure> first thing I see is a futuristic plane crsahing on a small airport
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09:06:51  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7551 /trunk/newgrf_config.c: -Fix (r7523): segmentation fault on showing NewGRF settings of a network game.
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09:15:55  <MeusH> hello
09:16:01  <MeusH> Born_Acorn!
09:38:13  <MeusH> Darkvater, awake!
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10:42:56  <CIA-1> miham * r7552 /trunk/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
10:42:56  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-23 11:41:58
10:42:56  <CIA-1> american - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
10:42:56  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 1 changed by kokobongo (1)
10:42:56  <CIA-1> catalan - 2 fixed, 3 changed by arnaullv (5)
10:42:57  <CIA-1> dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
10:42:57  <CIA-1> french - 2 fixed by glx (2)
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10:57:29  <Alltaken> ok guys, files 200+ Mb
10:57:35  <Alltaken>
10:57:56  <Alltaken> feel free to download, this is all my work, which i am passing on
11:00:54  <Sacro> hey Alltaken, good luck
11:01:04  <Alltaken> thanks
11:01:31  <Sacro> ive always been in awe of the graphics devs
11:06:05  <Alltaken> why?
11:06:45  <roboboy> good luck aswell with your new job
11:06:52  <Sacro> such nice models...
11:09:34  <Alltaken> thanks roboboy
11:09:47  <Alltaken> Sacro:  its not as hard as one would think, just like anything people want to do
11:10:02  <Alltaken> it just takes learning time and effort, which makes it unattainable by the masses
11:10:04  <Sacro> Alltaken: ive tried, just never got anyway
11:10:08  <Sacro> *anywhere
11:10:14  <Alltaken> like coding, or sewing, or knitting or anything
11:10:38  <Sacro> hmm
11:11:01  <Alltaken> Sacro:  you code?
11:11:18  <Sacro> Alltaken: yep, sometimes
11:11:54  <Alltaken> well that is hard as hell :P
11:12:51  <Sacro> nah, its logical
11:12:56  <Sacro> graphics arent
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11:13:55  <Alltaken> sure they are
11:14:06  <Alltaken> different type of logic
11:14:08  <Alltaken> :P
11:14:31  <Alltaken> fuzy logic
11:14:37  <Sacro> heh
11:15:12  <Gonozal_VIII> creativity is needed for both but it is a different kind
11:15:53  <blathijs> Alltaken: Passing on, as in, leaving?
11:16:27  <Alltaken> yep
11:17:24  <blathijs> Tired of openttd, or running out of time, or emigrating to a place without internet?
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11:21:04  <Alltaken> just got a job straight out of uni
11:21:13  <Sacro> nice
11:21:19  <Alltaken> so will have less than zero time
11:36:13  <blathijs> ah, nice and not-so-nice :-)
11:36:15  * blathijs is off
11:40:07  * Sacro can smell
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12:52:05  <Ben_123> more spam: >> << its getting kinda common..
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12:54:31  <hylje> request: filter user's first 10 or so posts from urls
12:54:45  <Wolf01> ello
12:54:51  <Bjarni> tell that to orudge
12:55:43  <Ben_123> It appears in the Openttd Problems area also, wich is why I stuck it in here
12:56:27  <MeusH> did something happen to
12:56:28  <MeusH> The requested URL /latest/ was not found on this server.
12:56:44  <Bjarni> it appears to be a forum problem, which is orudge's area
12:57:40  <MeusH> Ben_123, I saw that dude/bot posting the same link in other sections, too
12:57:50  <Sacro> Ben_123: you'd be better reporting it in #tycoon on
12:57:50  <Ben_123> alright, well is he not in here?
12:57:57  <hylje> stupid ati
12:58:00  <hylje> still crashing wine
12:58:05  <Sacro> its not even a good site
12:58:34  <Bjarni> Sacro: did you expect something with incest in it's name to be good???
12:58:43  <Bjarni> pervert
12:58:49  <Sacro> Bjarni: well...
12:59:07  <Ben_123> Am I the only one who is fasinated to know what it links to?
12:59:19  <Bjarni> no
12:59:25  <Bjarni> but there is little I can do about it
12:59:35  <Sacro> Ben_123: an exe with a worm in it
12:59:53  <Bjarni> you see, the forum you linked to... I got no more permissions in there than you do
13:00:07  <Ben_123> Sacro:  Pah, nothing like I imagined
13:00:10  <Bjarni> I can only do stuff to forums with OpenTTD in the names
13:00:36  <Ben_123> Bjarni: ok, I thourght orudge was in here.  I'm not super fussed, but just throught I would point out the spam
13:00:42  <Sacro> Bjarni: like that one?
13:00:52  <Ben_123> Bjarni: there is spam in the openttd section also
13:01:59  <Bjarni> hmm
13:02:22  <Bjarni> we got a policy not to delete stuff on the forums... however I think this calls for an exception
13:02:42  <Sacro> i think it might get moved to the spambin
13:03:13  <Bjarni> but it's part of a post... then I need to split it out of the post first before moving it (with the risk of doing it wrong)
13:03:29  <Sacro> Bjarni: Lakie says to move it to the spam bin
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13:07:13  <Bjarni> ok, it appeared that it worked well and nothing wrong were moved
13:08:28  <Sacro> lol
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13:08:45  <CIA-1> miham * r7553 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt hungarian.txt):
13:08:45  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-23 14:07:59
13:08:45  <CIA-1> american - 3 fixed by WhiteRabbit (3)
13:08:45  <CIA-1> hungarian - 4 fixed by miham (4)
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13:40:34  <SpComb> Logs:
13:40:34  <Born_Acorn> !logs
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13:42:47  <michi_cc> Darkvater: bugging :) MD5: 2cc4f39c65b0e07bd266e8bc396973b6
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13:51:14  <[gen2]niki> thank you for rc1 54
13:51:21  <[gen2]niki> my server will be up in a minute
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13:57:37  <[gen2]niki> i found a first bug ^^
13:58:22  <Bjarni> too late for that
13:58:40  <Bjarni> you may have found a bug, but it's not the first in 0.5.0-RC1
13:58:43  <[gen2]niki> is there a mantis or something for reports?
13:58:50  <Bjarni>
14:00:26  <[gen2]niki> btw my 0.5rc1 server:
14:00:31  <[gen2]niki> [gen2]Openttd
14:00:35  <[gen2]niki> everyones invited ;p
14:01:36  <Bjarni> bbl
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14:14:34  <[gen2]niki> Darkvater? Can you tell me whos responsible for bugtracker? my activation email is taking already 15 minutes to come now.. is the servers smtp so slow?
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14:17:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I don't have the 64bit compiler installed for VS2005. It's another gigabyte of HD space I don't have
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14:18:12  <Darkvater> blathijs: yes I left 64bit out on purpose as there are only a few on the download page, most of them are linked through to SF
14:18:27  <Darkvater> [gen2]niki: it's MiHaMiX
14:19:20  <Bjarni> back
14:19:42  <Bjarni> [gen2]niki: I can manually create an account for you if needed
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14:20:05  <[gen2]niki>
14:20:16  <Darkvater> so morning
14:20:19  <[gen2]niki>
14:20:27  <[gen2]niki> first: bank doesnt seem to accept diamonds?
14:20:30  <Bjarni> Darkvater: RC1 appears to have a lib issue on OSX. I think I solved it, but I'm waiting for people to test it before I commit it
14:20:49  <[gen2]niki> second: waggons appear several times in the list, locomotives dont
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14:21:04  <Darkvater> Bjarni: yes fontconfig is not standard on OSX is what people told me
14:21:31  <Darkvater> michi_cc: thank you, is it working? ;)
14:21:56  <michi_cc> for me, yes :)
14:22:15  <Darkvater> hehe
14:22:17  <[gen2]niki> Bjarni the account is NikiB maybe you can just activate it manually ;p
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14:22:49  <[gen2]niki> but in general: thanks for 0.5rc1, its a nice christmas gift :D
14:23:00  <[gen2]niki> my beta server is already up and running
14:23:02  <Bjarni> Darkvater: it appears to be present in my system and present by default in my SDKs, so I assumed that it was the way to go... Now I'm testing a quick hack for a static linking. If it works, I will commit it as the --static flag appears to be borked and we can't use the nice solution
14:23:55  <Darkvater> Bjarni: present with SDK is not-present usually ;)
14:24:17  <Darkvater> Bjarni: do make the hack a bit nice, will you? You don't have to hurry it that much
14:24:31  <Bjarni> [gen2]niki: NikiB is not present, not even in pending accounts... either your account is lost or it have yet to enter the system
14:25:37  <Darkvater> michi_cc: can you download the file and check if it is ok?
14:25:51  <Bjarni> Darkvater: currently the hack is that I hardcoded the path into the Makefile. Getting that path appears to be tricky if not impossible from the config script. I think I will move it to Makefile.config though if it's committed
14:27:38  <Darkvater> he Bjarni the mail I sent you?
14:27:45  <Darkvater> Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:
14:27:45  <Darkvater>
14:27:45  <Darkvater> Message will be retried for 2 more day(s)
14:27:45  <Darkvater> Technical details of temporary failure:
14:27:47  <Darkvater> TEMP_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 12): 451 Temporary local problem - please try later
14:28:00  <Bjarni> :P
14:28:03  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that is not a good thing to commit
14:28:12  <Darkvater> it will fail for everyone else who wants to compile
14:28:20  <Bjarni> no
14:28:36  <Darkvater> I'm fine with you makng local changes to compile fontconfig statically but don't commit *any* hardcoded paths
14:28:47  <Bjarni> because I will pick the default location if it's present and it's only activated for static OSX builds
14:29:28  <Darkvater> hmm even then..I'd rather you not
14:29:39  <[gen2]niki> well like you seen i post pictures of the bugs above
14:29:51  <Bjarni> if it's not present then the define flag should not be set at all
14:30:48  <Bjarni> I'm not going to modify the files in my system. Doing that tend to backfire when you least expect it
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14:31:03  <KUDr> [gen2]niki: what is wrong on ?
14:31:09  <KUDr> shit
14:31:58  <Bjarni> hi KUDr
14:32:02  <Darkvater> why is the acceptance square not drawn for some tiles?
14:32:02  <KUDr> hi
14:32:07  <Bjarni> somebody on the forum asked for you
14:32:21  <KUDr> Bjarni: where?
14:32:42  <Darkvater> ah that's standard
14:32:53  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7153
14:32:54  <michi_cc> Darkvater: you should change the sourceforge front page to show openttd supports 64-bit systems. only 32-bit is in the os list right now
14:33:00  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7153 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs) (2006-11-15 19:35:52 UTC)
14:33:02  <_42_> -Fix [FS#279]: Some keyboard events possibly lost under high CPU load, handle
14:33:04  <michi_cc> Darkvater: file is good
14:33:04  <_42_>  keyboard input in place instead of global variables magic. (KUDr)
14:33:15  <MeusH> Darkvater, when is 0.5 (RC2?) due to be released?
14:33:22  <Bjarni> KUDr:
14:33:59  <Darkvater> michi_cc: yea
14:34:18  <KUDr> Bjarni: thanks
14:34:30  <MeusH> I've got the polish lanugage ready but MiHaMiX seems to be gone
14:34:37  <MeusH> so it's ready for next release
14:34:43  <Darkvater> michi_cc: there is no x64 selection possible
14:35:33  <michi_cc> is a bit behind, it seems
14:36:44  <Darkvater> MeusH: RC1 is out for one day. Give it at least a week
14:37:18  <MeusH> okay. Could you commit polish.txt I prepared?
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14:37:54  <Darkvater> I'd rather wait for MiHaMiX to do it
14:38:04  <Darkvater> but if he ain't back in a few days I"ll commit them
14:38:07  <Born_Acorn> Whenever we get a Chinese translation, lets put subtle anti Communist remarks into the game!
14:38:18  <Born_Acorn> We'll get some people in prison!
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14:39:10  <Bjarni> why would we want to send random Chinese people to jail?
14:39:13  <Bjarni> oh wait
14:39:16  <Bjarni> nevermind :)
14:39:24  <Bjarni> >:]
14:39:56  <Born_Acorn> I wonder if Chinese people can even get to
14:40:04  <Born_Acorn> maybe they aren't allowed!
14:41:36  <MeusH> Beloved Mao patched OpenTTD so that he can control disasters on #openttdcoop server :]
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15:27:28  <Born_Acorn> Did the merging of the Bridge Branch take place, or is that yet to happen?
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16:00:36  <Celestar> hi peops
16:00:47  <Celestar> anyone around?
16:06:01  <Born_Acorn> I'm around!
16:06:52  <Celestar> hi :)
16:07:00  <Born_Acorn> Hello Celestar!
16:07:26  <Celestar> hows stuff?
16:08:05  <Born_Acorn> Stuff is good.
16:11:24  <Celestar> where are Darkvater and peter1138
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16:16:28  <Gonozal_VIII> bridges :-)
16:16:41  <scia> I like stuff
16:16:56  <Gonozal_VIII> stuff :-)
16:17:38  <Gonozal_VIII> will stuff be added to trunk?
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16:18:21  <Celestar> funny how Heathrow was initially planned with 9 runways
16:18:22  <Celestar> :)
16:18:51  <hylje> and now?
16:19:17  <Celestar> it has two
16:19:28  <Celestar> which are totally filled
16:19:56  <Gonozal_VIII> who would have guessed?
16:20:40  <Celestar> :)
16:21:17  <Born_Acorn> Celestar, they were here earlier, well, Darkvater was
16:21:28  <Born_Acorn> It's all in the !logs
16:21:40  <Bjarni> speaking about Heathrow, it appears to have the same weather as London
16:21:52  <Bjarni> closed due to sense fog for at least 4 days now
16:22:00  <Bjarni> poor timing :P
16:22:22  <Celestar> lol
16:22:38  <Gonozal_VIII> fog in london.. how unusual
16:22:39  <LadyHawk> it wasnt even foggy today
16:22:40  <LadyHawk> !
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16:22:55  <LadyHawk> was the past 2-3 days tho
16:23:00  <LadyHawk> and im not too far away from heathrow
16:23:46  <Celestar> Heathrow really needs that 3rd runway :S
16:23:55  <Celestar> but ok
16:23:58  * Celestar needs to go.
16:24:06  <Celestar> and /me wants to merge :S
16:24:06  <Bjarni> well, the news last night showed Heathrow and it was not really possible to see both end of the plane in the picture due to fog
16:24:08  <Celestar> cu later
16:24:17  <Born_Acorn> merge bridges? woo!
16:24:25  <Celestar> bbl
16:24:32  <Bjarni> c u
16:24:38  <LadyHawk> ya thats what it was like past 3 days
16:24:50  <Gonozal_VIII> yay bridges :D
16:24:50  <LadyHawk> was like that when i went to sleep too
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16:25:12  <LadyHawk> never seen that thick fog for such a long period of time
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16:26:10  <hylje> lol, hearthrow REALLY has two runways?
16:26:22  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't it be cheaper to heat the air a bit around the runway than to close down everything?
16:26:24  <hylje> even the helsinki-vantaa airport has three
16:26:30  <Bjarni> when Celestar says so, I think so
16:26:42  <Bjarni> Keflavik got 3 AFAIK
16:27:25  <Bjarni> but no more than two can be used at the same time. The last is for when the wind is strong and in a bad angle
16:28:51  <hylje> yeah, the third runway for helsinki-vantaa is really to allow repairing of one other runway
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16:29:48  <Bjarni> if you place two runways like an X, then it sucks if the crossing itself breaks :P
16:30:01  <Bjarni> then there will be a display of a really quick repair job
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16:30:39  <hylje> hehe
16:30:44  <hylje> the layout is liek //\
16:30:52  <XeryusTC> o?
16:30:57  <XeryusTC> heya
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16:36:28  <MeusH> hey XeryusTC
16:37:25  <XeryusTC> heh, reboot, again
16:37:30  <MeusH> bye :0
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16:38:05  <Bjarni> is he using windows or something?
16:38:15  <hylje> it seems
16:38:20  <hylje> but at least its w2k
16:38:32  <hylje> and not the aids-laden versions
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17:13:03  <Hadez_away> Hi, is some NewGRF-responsible dev here? :-)
17:13:26  <Born_Acorn> peter1138 timed out
17:14:47  <Hadez_away> Well, it's not a big NewGRF question, any other could answer.
17:15:01  <Born_Acorn> Ask away!
17:19:02  <Hadez_away> I found out that a cause of Unifont not working in the title screen (and probably in MP) is that it is blocked because it contains action 0E, for activating itself in there.
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17:19:33  <Hadez_away> This is not a standard behavior. It was designed to work like this, in TTDPatch.
17:21:02  <Born_Acorn> hmm
17:21:13  <Born_Acorn> Youd best ask peter1138 then. :p
17:21:15  <Hadez_away> Then I ask, if it is possible to make an exception for action 0E to work (I mean this self-activating function).
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17:24:42  <Hadez_away> I was trying to re-open a bug (#440) regarding Unifont not working in title screen. I don't know how I argued, but it was Darkvater, who rejected re-opening, so he should know :-)
17:28:17  <Bjarni> I noticed the request to reopen it, but peter was away and then Darkvater took care of it and then I figured that it was ok
17:28:38  <Hadez_away> Well, now I only have to wait. This is a serious problem (Czech language isn't working correctly in the title screen) and I hope it gets some attention before 0.5.0 is released.
17:29:18  <Bjarni> some people talked about language issues, so I guess somebody got to look into it
17:29:22  <glx> Hadez_away: what if you set fonts in openttd.cfg ?
17:29:26  <Bjarni> not just Czech
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17:31:13  <Darkvater> 'ello
17:31:17  <Hadez_away> glx: Well, I didn't manage to compile with FreeType (too low experience with compiler). And well, I'd rather want to see original-looking bitmap fonts in my game.
17:31:31  <Darkvater> back for a moment, gotta run in a few :)
17:31:34  <Hadez_away> Darkvater: Hi.
17:31:53  <Darkvater> Hadez_away: yes use freetype. Font 'Tahoma Bold' is almost the same font used by TTD
17:32:03  <Darkvater> looks about the same, even better :)
17:32:20  <Darkvater> but we'll need to look into action 0x0E as it is not fully supported
17:32:27  <Hadez_away> Even in the small sizes? :-|
17:32:38  <Darkvater> no, not small sizes
17:32:47  <Darkvater> but! the title screen doesn't have small sizes ;)
17:32:59  <Darkvater> neither does it have big fonts
17:33:11  <Darkvater> so you can get away with only setting a font for medium_font
17:33:27  <Hadez_away> I know :-) But the thing I need then, is a better support for action 0E.
17:33:51  <Darkvater> well; where's the patch? :P
17:34:06  <Hadez_away> 'Cause I won't probably use rendered fonts.
17:34:22  <Darkvater> peter will need to look into this, he blacklisted action 0xE for a good reason I presume
17:34:46  <Hadez_away> Well, idea is there (don't block action 0E that activates the file).
17:35:01  <Darkvater> eh it's not that simple
17:35:13  <Darkvater> eg the check is: actionE? ban
17:35:23  <Hadez_away> I know, the "blocker" is quite dumb.
17:35:23  <Darkvater> not actionE? what type? ban or not ban
17:35:39  <Hadez_away> It needs a special case.
17:35:58  <Darkvater> it doesn't need a special case
17:36:17  <Darkvater> it need a rewrite of the blocker to process the whole grf to check for safe unsafe-actions
17:37:14  <Darkvater> see newgrf.c:3569
17:37:36  <Hadez_away> A work for a more experienced programmer, that me, I think. I can't call myself a programmer yet.
17:37:56  <Darkvater> I would recommend using rendered fonts though...then you'll see different characters from different languages as wlel when in MP
17:38:51  <Darkvater> Hadez_away: did you compile openttd yourself?
17:39:08  <Hadez_away> Yes, this is what I managed to do.
17:39:18  <Darkvater> so why can't you compile with freetype?
17:39:39  <Hadez_away> Linux platform, then using Makefile which I don't understand so well.
17:39:47  <Darkvater> go to your repository manager, download freetype-devel
17:39:53  <Darkvater> ./configure
17:39:55  <Darkvater> and
17:39:55  <Darkvater> make
17:39:56  <Belugas_Gone> bye guys.  Merry Christmas to all (of coursde, those who celebrate it)
17:39:56  <Darkvater> done
17:40:02  <Darkvater> hehe
17:40:05  <Darkvater> by Belugas_Gone :)
17:40:09  <Darkvater> may your days be blessed!
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17:40:13  <Darkvater> eh
17:40:28  <Belugas_Gone> nice to say.. same to you and your beloved ones :D
17:40:29  <Hadez_away> Merry Xmas, Belugas :-)
17:40:30  <_minime_> hey guys (and gals if any)
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17:40:47  <Hadez_away> _minime_: Where you've been?
17:40:58  <Hadez_away> (I know.)
17:41:16  <_minime_> smoking and taking my sweet time...
17:41:41  <Hadez_away> Darkvater: I'll try it. But I'm not forgetting about that 0E thing.
17:42:59  <Darkvater> anyways, action 0xE is not understood properly by someone
17:43:10  <Darkvater> @ttdpatch wiki: If the given GRFID is identical to the GRFID of the file currently being processed, the current file is force-activated.
17:43:13  <Darkvater> openttd code:
17:43:18  <Darkvater> 			/* Skip processing if the GRF deactivated itself */
17:43:18  <Darkvater> 			if (file == _cur_grfconfig) _skip_sprites = -1;
17:43:29  <_minime_> ah
17:43:43  <Darkvater> let's see whom to blame ;o
17:43:46  <Hadez_away> That could be! :-)
17:43:54  <_minime_> so it's just a matter of someone not reading the docs right :D
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17:44:11  <Darkvater> that doesn't help though
17:44:18  <RichK67> ping Brianetta
17:44:23  <Darkvater> this is done waaaay after the actionE ban kicks in
17:44:25  <Darkvater> hiya RichK67
17:44:30  <RichK67> heya
17:44:48  <Hadez_away> Hmm, that's true.
17:45:16  <Darkvater> hmm, I'll blame peter on this
17:45:25  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7496
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17:45:29  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r7496 /trunk/newgrf.c (2006-12-14 19:10:46 UTC)
17:45:31  <_42_> -Codechange: [NewGRF] Skip processing a GRF if it deactivated itself.
17:45:34  <Darkvater> speak of the devil ;p
17:45:50  <peter1138> hmm?
17:45:55  <Darkvater> still on dialup I see peter1138 :)
17:45:57  <Darkvater> eh
17:45:59  <Darkvater> :(
17:46:23  <peter1138> # I'll be on dialup, for christmas...
17:46:51  <Darkvater> T_T
17:50:02  <Darkvater> so then I guess you don't want to download this:
17:52:40  <peter1138> probably not
17:52:55  <Darkvater> hehe
17:53:03  <Darkvater> ok, guys gotta go runnin'
17:53:10  <Darkvater> bbl
17:53:37  <peter1138> "Good to see new revision, except tis' not so new after all, is it? "
17:53:46  <peter1138> heh
17:53:53  <peter1138> are we supposed to suddenly add lots of new things that aren't in trunk? heh
17:54:48  <Gonozal_VIII> bridges :-)
17:55:14  <RichK67> hi peter - can you help me on a .grf?
17:56:42  <Gonozal_VIII> miniin guy :-)
17:56:49  <Zavior> :-)
17:57:42  <RichK67> i want to play on brianetta's 0.5.0 server, and it says i need "The HOVS universal road vehicle set", MD5 of C860AE....  with grf ID 44440401. if i go to grfcrawler, the grf ID 44440401 isnt called that, but HOVS UK Bus Set, and MD5 is 6AAD...  im confused? can you help?
17:57:56  <Zavior> Brianetta's hosting server again? =)
17:59:14  <Born_Acorn> RichK67,
18:00:15  <RichK67> ah... the secret plan ;)
18:03:03  <peter1138> beaten :/
18:03:36  <RichK67> many thanks  - ive not played a OTTD game since Brianetta's last server went offline
18:04:00  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't play miniin?
18:04:45  <RichK67> nope - i made it at first, but have never really played it
18:05:18  <Born_Acorn> I've just found the fatal flaw in Locomotions design.
18:05:22  <RichK67> its too much like "work" when i play miniin - i see things that need fixing, and it puts me off playing
18:05:27  <Born_Acorn> Chris Sawyer admits he never played it.
18:05:37  <Born_Acorn> He started it just to test things worked. :p
18:06:07  <RichK67> yup - like me with miniin - i never can relax into playing
18:06:27  <RichK67> but then, ive not done any work on OTTD or MiniIN for 2 months anyway
18:07:04  * peter1138 -> tesco
18:07:17  <Bjarni> yeah, why did you run away?
18:07:32  <Bjarni> you know, we could jail you for that
18:08:57  <RichK67> its a combination of RealLife, and the changes in OTTD got too rapid and radical for me to cope with... lots of restructurings
18:09:18  <RichK67> so i sort of lost heart, and then got busy with other stuff
18:09:18  <Gonozal_VIII> bridges :-)
18:09:39  <RichK67> nope - it was the GUI restructuring that wrecked me
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18:09:58  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
18:10:13  <RichK67> affected LOTS of MiniIN patches
18:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume you ain't up to sync bridges to miniin then?
18:11:10  <RichK67> anyway - i may be suggesting that MiniIN is restarted against 0.5.0 when it comes out, and loses its link to the nightly
18:11:17  <Gonozal_VIII> bridges in miniin would be so cool
18:11:38  <RichK67> hi Eddi|zuHause3... ask glx and Rubidium - if they want it in, do it
18:12:02  <Born_Acorn> Can't you wait a bit? Celestar wants to merge it soon.
18:12:07  <Born_Acorn> :p
18:12:14  <Gonozal_VIII> to trunk
18:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i said this before, merge to trunk != merge to miniin
18:12:43  <glx> RichK67: I just sync miniin, but bridge merge will probably kill pbs
18:13:14  <Born_Acorn> I don't really care much for the workings of miniin, but doesn't it sync with trunk every week or something?
18:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> if we think how often we thought that pbs was finally killed :p
18:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> (e.g. YAPF)
18:13:54  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs works with yapf on now?
18:13:59  <glx> no
18:14:04  <glx> pbs still needs npf
18:14:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> Born_Acorn: yes, it magically syncs and solves conflicts without human input :p
18:14:35  <Born_Acorn> I didn't mean that. ¬¬
18:15:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, PBS does not work with YAPF, but YAPF did not entirely kill it (after a few adjustments)
18:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> the physics patch also conflicted with PBS
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18:18:42  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs has many problems, i think a few more wouldn't change much
18:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, you'd have to be very carefully about "a few"
18:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> at the very least, PBS completely fail around bridges...
18:21:15  <Gonozal_VIII> there is not much need for bridges inside a pbs junction or for pbs signals around a bridge...
18:21:51  <hylje> you think?
18:21:57  <hylje> meet hueg bridges
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18:23:23  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm?
18:24:15  *** FlashFF [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:24:18  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't see how the size of the bridge changes that...
18:24:27  <hylje> dont you want more than one train on such a bridge?
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18:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is a completely different topic ;)
18:24:55  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs does that?
18:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it does not
18:25:13  <Gonozal_VIII> it reserved the whole path when i tested it...
18:25:17  <hylje> oh, right
18:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> but it should (in the PBS rewrite)
18:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> btw. i want doubletracked bridges ;)
18:26:04  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
18:26:43  <Gonozal_VIII> a doubletracked railtype would be cool
18:27:04  <PandaMojo> Kinda like TTDPatch's trams?
18:27:05  <PandaMojo> :)
18:27:44  <Ailure> might be a bit more reaLISTIC TOO
18:27:48  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause3: i'd rather have automagically merging bridges
18:27:55  <Ailure> I mean
18:27:56  <hylje> so parallel bridges look like one hueg bridge
18:28:05  <Ailure> the thing is
18:28:29  <Ailure> hmm
18:28:32  <Gonozal_VIII> that should be possible as it is with stations
18:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> 2 tracks on one tile won't fit i'm afraid
18:28:42  <Ailure> well
18:28:48  <Ailure> but 3 tracks on 2 will
18:28:53  <Ailure> but don't ask me how to do that
18:28:53  <Ailure> heh
18:28:56  <hylje> !
18:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it is not so easy to check if 2 bridges are parallel
18:29:15  <hylje> that, liek, ruins teh concept of tiles
18:29:16  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:29:37  <PandaMojo> Eddi|zuHause3: It should be if you have the start and end tiles of both
18:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> because you need to a) check if there are 2 bridge tiles next to each other (easy), and b) check if they are the same height (more complicated)
18:29:43  <Ailure> Eddi: Checking the ends of the bridges?
18:29:54  <MeusH> yes
18:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but for each bridge middle tile you have to reference the end tiles
18:30:50  <MeusH> this way you have height of the bridge
18:30:58  <MeusH> it seems to be similiar to stations
18:31:06  <hylje> i think there should be a bridge object
18:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i believe that getting the bridge ramp tile takes linear time in the size of the bridge
18:31:30  <Ailure> newBridges olol
18:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> so this modifying look feature would take squared time
18:32:38  <Ailure> squared time?
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18:32:43  <Ailure> you mean like
18:32:49  <Ailure> O(N^2)?
18:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
18:32:52  <Ailure> :o
18:33:35  <Gonozal_VIII> i read here the other day that IsBridgeTile() returns true if the tile is a bridge ramp
18:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, that is, because there is no such thing as a bridge middle tile anymore
18:34:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> i believe there is some kind of HasBridge[XY]() function
18:34:57  <Gonozal_VIII> how does newstations handle the drawing of different sized graphics?
18:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no knowledge about how newgrf features work
18:36:07  <Gonozal_VIII> i think it should be almost the same with bridges
18:36:38  <FlashFF> W000000000000T!
18:37:04  <FlashFF> my new router arrived and now i can actually host servers that can advertise
18:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> but like i said, for looks of stations, you can limit this to exactly neigbouring tiles, that does not work with bridges, as you will always need to check the bridge end tile for the height
18:38:02  <Gonozal_VIII> is a height check difficult?
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18:38:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> to get the height of a bridge middle part, you have to traverse the map along the bridge direction, until you hit the bridge end
18:39:30  <Gonozal_VIII> and that is hard because?
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18:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is "hard", because you have to touch every single brige tile, and check its tile type
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18:40:30  <Jango> bridges are short, on the whole
18:40:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> so instead of checking 1 tile, you have to check [length of bridge] tiles
18:40:54  <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that done anyways to draw the pylons?
18:41:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... you may have a point there ;)
18:41:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you think it is possible, do a patch ;)
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18:42:01  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ first semester... java... no good^^
18:42:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not that problematic... stare a few hours at the code to figure out what it does
18:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> then modify some things, until it does what you want
18:43:22  <Gonozal_VIII> problem is the huge ammount of code..
18:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> preferably with only few lines of code changes
18:43:32  <Jango> you can still focus on certain areas
18:43:52  <Jango> many changes are trivial
18:44:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> mainly, you'd have to look at the places that contain both the words "bridge" and "sprite"
18:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> that should narrow it down quite a bit ;)
18:45:55  <Gonozal_VIII> if i started something, diagonal bridges would be more important to me than changing the design
18:46:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, start with the easy things ;)
18:46:35  <Jango> lol, diagonals would be major
18:46:43  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
18:46:44  <MeusH> someone would need to draw new graphics
18:46:45  <Gonozal_VIII> but cool
18:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't learn to walk by walking, but by crawling and occasionaly standing up [and falling down]
18:46:52  <MeusH> for bridges that join together
18:47:05  <Jango> like locomotion?
18:47:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> new graphics are only the last step...
18:47:29  <Gonozal_VIII> if the code is there, i think graphics would follow quickly
18:47:30  <Jango> i like the concepts of viaducts etc in locomotion
18:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's as easy as going to the forum and shouting "i have feature, i need graphics"
18:47:45  <Jango> but, the AI utterly spoil the maps visually
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18:48:11  <hylje> diagonal bridges would be quite ftw
18:48:26  <Wolf01> do you think this is possible?
18:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> possible? sure. easy? less likely.
18:49:38  <Gonozal_VIII> cartello?
18:50:31  <Wolf01> ENG = sign ITA = cartello
18:50:54  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. so you want signs with multiple lines?
18:50:58  <Wolf01> yeah
18:51:16  <Wolf01> and resizable
18:51:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm add \n?^^
18:51:52  <Wolf01> but there is also a limit of chars you can put in it
18:52:26  <Wolf01> shhhh i can hear something... "neeeew maaap arraaaay"
18:53:09  <Gonozal_VIII> i know... i often placed a sign with "da" or something in a multiplayer game with a friend and then icqd him with the details..
18:56:30  <Wolf01> 1024 chars limit should be enough
18:56:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i think bigger signs should be possible without new map array... store the text somewhere else
18:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think signs are stored in the map
18:57:45  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe a text document, each sign as a line or something with line number in the sign itself...
18:58:16  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- stupid newbie^^
18:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> at least you are not italian (:p)
19:01:10  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, a text document (or something like that) wouldn have a limitation of sign lengh or number
19:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think the bigger problem than storing the text somewhere is handling the input and the display
19:05:36  <Wolf01> ctrl+enter to make a new line
19:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Lag 8s" ... that does not look good ;)
19:05:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yep^^
19:06:09  <Wolf01> like the multiline input box of mirc
19:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: now program an input box that dynamically resizes itself ;)
19:07:01  <Wolf01> ehm
19:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> [and we reached the critical point at 20:06 CET on 23.12.2006]
19:08:04  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm input box doesn't have to dynamically resize... could start with a standard size and be manually resizable
19:08:23  <Wolf01> to scroll the lines is not a problem, the problem is to resize it horizontally
19:08:50  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
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19:16:37  <Gonozal_VIII> ping?
19:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Lag: 213ms" ;)
19:18:09  <Gonozal_VIII> some connection problems... thought i lost the channel
19:18:18  <MeusH> Wolf01: add a drag widget instead of pin (or put both)
19:18:26  <MeusH> by the way, what does the pin do there?
19:18:53  <Gonozal_VIII> signs are always open so... nothing
19:19:02  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
19:19:50  <MeusH> hmm how to call a rusty/wet mark on a plaster wall left by long-time leaking water?
19:19:53  <MeusH> in english :p
19:20:47  <Gonozal_VIII> gross?
19:22:53  <MeusH> google images show nothing like that...
19:23:13  <MeusH> I mean, no marks on walls
19:23:25  <Zavior> rotten wallpaper? :I
19:25:56  <MeusH> hmm
19:26:00  <MeusH> it's something like
19:26:06  <MeusH> but more intense
19:26:07  <MeusH> brb
19:28:05  <FlashFF> does anyone have any links to any decent info on how server side scripts work in openttd?
19:28:32  <Born_Acorn> Mould?
19:28:41  <Born_Acorn> and woo, Jk3
19:28:51  <Born_Acorn> (or JK:JA)
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19:32:14  <Wolf01> [20:18:32] <MeusH> Wolf01: add a drag widget instead of pin (or put both)
19:32:14  <Wolf01> it should be full/compact like the finance window, i made it quickly and i forgot the resize finance window widget, but i had the sticky pin on the screenshot so i used it
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20:19:48  <MeusH> thanks Born_Acorn :)
20:19:59  <MeusH> by the way, is Arial your middle-size font in OpenTTD?
20:20:10  <MeusH> Wolf01, where are the sign texts stored?
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20:22:56  <Wolf01> don't know
20:24:25  <MeusH> okies :)
20:24:41  <MeusH> glx: what's the YAPF PBS progress?
20:25:00  <glx> don't know
20:25:08  <KUDr> sleeping
20:25:52  <glx> MeusH: and it won't be a YAPF PBS, but a PBS independant from pathfinder
20:26:27  <MeusH> ok
20:26:40  <MeusH> is it possible to view its branch/patch files?
20:26:57  <glx> nothing done yet afaik
20:27:31  <MeusH> oh
20:27:32  <MeusH> ok
20:27:35  <MeusH> thank you
20:38:11  <Ailure> D:
20:38:59  <Bjarni> cheer up Ailure
20:39:12  <Bjarni> I know you can't help being Swedish, but still...
20:39:22  <Ailure> lol
20:39:30  <Ailure> That's a just stupid rumour
20:39:38  <Ailure> or rather uhm
20:39:40  <Ailure> urban legend
20:39:45  <Ailure> about depression in scandinavia
20:40:05  <Bjarni> I didn't mean Scandinavia, just being Swedish
20:40:06  <Ailure> read about it
20:40:07  <Ailure> hehe
20:40:18  <Bjarni> all you guys got the blues
20:40:35  <Ailure> I should look through the Swedish translation for openTTD :D
20:40:43  <Ailure> there were some strings that needed fixing apparently
20:40:50  <Ailure> but i do recall some really wierd grammar
20:40:51  <Ailure> at places
20:41:00  <Ailure> think Yoda grammar
20:41:12  <Bjarni> thinking about it, you guys are permanently with the blues and we noticed during world war II, that you are also yellow
20:41:38  <Ailure> :o
20:41:54  <Ailure> I thought we would uhm
20:41:55  <Ailure> grey
20:41:57  <Ailure> for neutriality
20:42:00  <Ailure> or osmething lolz
20:42:01  <Bjarni> do you claim not to be blue and yellow?
20:42:07  <Ailure> I AM PURPLE
20:42:29  <Bjarni> that sounds serious. Did you go see a doctor?
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20:42:43  <Ailure> .o
20:42:50  <Ailure> I like the way I am, so nope. :(
20:43:20  <Bjarni> I don't know anything serious that turns people purple
20:43:25  <Bjarni> well, except dying
20:43:33  <MeusH> :p
20:43:48  <MeusH> Bjarni, I saw in TV some nice rioting in Denmark
20:44:03  <MeusH> what was that about? Why did so many people riot just because of one man?
20:44:14  <Born_Acorn> MeusH, yes, Arial is. :p
20:44:22  <MeusH> thanks Born_Acorn
20:44:23  <Bjarni> yeah, a lot of Swedes attacked our beautiful city >_<
20:44:34  <MeusH> bad Swedes
20:44:35  <Ailure> wait wtf
20:44:42  <Bjarni> and Norwegians and Germans and stuff
20:44:57  <Guest56> <-- stuff
20:45:05  <Bjarni> you went there?
20:45:20  <Guest56> i was born in 1984 so... no^^
20:45:42  <Bjarni> that didn't stop the other guys
20:46:03  <Ailure> well I have a reason for saying that i'm Purple
20:46:08  <Ailure> but people would be calling me names :(
20:46:21  <Ailure> *insert a even more emo smiley here*
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20:47:33  <Bjarni> well, the thing is that some youngsters used a house and then their usage were terminated due to illegal activities (valid reason to terminate the permission). Then the building were sold and now after 6 years, all cases are done in court and the new owner of the building really is the new owner of the building
20:47:52  <Bjarni> and then the youngsters called in people from all over the world and started a riot
20:48:13  <Bjarni> most of them were 10-13 years when the building were sold
20:48:55  <Bjarni> they are still in the building and claims that people will die if the police will use force to remove them
20:49:03  <Gonozal_VIII> :S
20:49:20  <hylje> :o
20:49:42  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid..
20:49:43  <Bjarni> so that's the full story. They stole a building and attacked the police and everybody and everything else when they were told that they are not allowed to do that
20:51:48  <Bjarni> those people will not even agree to use another building. It got to be that specific one
20:52:09  <Gonozal_VIII> just burn down the building...
20:52:45  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, wouldn't help the owner...
20:53:52  <Ailure> the building might be quite ruined
20:54:01  <Ailure> at the point that it's probably better to demolish it altogether
20:54:06  <Ailure> so I dunno if it really matters :P
20:54:19  <Ailure> I belive they're practing uhm
20:54:21  <Ailure> squatting
20:58:03  <MeusH> Thanks Bjarni
20:58:10  <MeusH> TV shows completly different version
20:58:13  <MeusH> but "TV lies"
20:58:31  <Bjarni> so what are you told?
20:59:31  <Bjarni> if it's completely different, it would be interesting to hear what the media invents about this
21:02:07  <MeusH> They say that _one_ "illegal tenant" was removed from place he lived in and suddenly many people went on the streets to defend the poor poor-man
21:02:25  <MeusH> they didn't tell the reason
21:02:38  <MeusH> and it was just one person removed from building
21:03:13  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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21:05:27  <Bjarni> 84 people from other countries were arrested. They arrives from the whole world including USA, Canada and Australia, but mainly Europe and they started this "demonstration" without informing the police, wore masks to hide their identity (illegal) and motorbike helmets and got fireworks, rocks and other stuff to use to attack the police
21:05:34  <Bjarni> they didn't show up in peace
21:05:47  <hylje> wtf?
21:05:48  <hylje> omg?
21:05:57  <Ailure> while i' mall for demonstrations
21:06:07  <Ailure> I don't really like it when people demonstrate for... fighting
21:06:08  <Ailure> :/
21:06:29  <Ailure> I mean, there's alot bigger issues
21:06:32  <Ailure> to fight over
21:06:33  <Ailure> than this house
21:06:56  <Bjarni> the police stopped them rather quickly because they broke the stuff the passed, like roadsigns, shops and so on and started fires
21:07:22  <Bjarni> oh yeah, they took the round roadsigns and used them as shields
21:07:22  <MeusH> yeah I saw one clever dude who wore roadsign as a shield
21:07:27  <MeusH> ;]
21:07:33  <Bjarni> one?
21:07:43  <[gen2]niki> one question
21:07:44  <MeusH> "no parking"
21:07:56  <Bjarni> it appears that they planned to do so, so they took signs from all over the place
21:08:03  <[gen2]niki> if my server uses newgrfs.. will the clients download them automaticilly?
21:08:03  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:08:04  <Ailure> I have the oddball picture of a huge army of partisans
21:08:04  <MeusH> only one :( It must have looked nice to see many people armed with roadsigns :D
21:08:11  <Ailure> armed with roadsigns and cones
21:08:16  <hylje> angry mob
21:08:34  <MeusH> Ailure: gimme :)
21:08:46  <Ailure> we had our violent demonstrations as well
21:08:51  <Ailure> such as the demonstrations in gothenbrug
21:08:52  <[gen2]niki> can anyone answer the question?
21:08:54  <[gen2]niki> o.o
21:09:21  <Gonozal_VIII> no
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21:10:09  <[gen2]niki> ;p
21:10:09  <MeusH> Gonozal_VIII, we hope this was answer to the first question? :)
21:10:10  <Gonozal_VIII> i think there would be licence problems
21:11:15  <Ailure> gen2: nope
21:11:18  <Ailure> from what I know, it won't
21:11:24  <Ailure> at least for now
21:11:41  <Ailure> but it will use the right GRF's
21:11:44  <Ailure> if you have them automatically
21:11:47  <Ailure> but no downloading
21:12:01  <Ailure> unless there's a magical feature addition I missed...
21:12:35  <Bjarni> <-- finally found some pictures that actually shows something. In the right side just below the first image, click "Se billedserie" (show picture gallery)
21:12:36  <[gen2]niki> i think it would be a good addition :D
21:12:48  <Bjarni> it's some script thing so I can't link directly
21:13:20  <Bjarni> half of you will fail to find it after that description
21:13:25  <Bjarni> Ailure being one of them :P
21:14:07  <Ailure> why me?
21:14:09  <Ailure> I just found it lol
21:14:20  <Ailure> althouh I had to whitelist that site for noscript
21:14:33  <Bjarni> because you are the guy in here, who got the hardest time finding a link on a Danish page :P
21:14:35  <Ailure> haha
21:14:36  <Ailure> damn
21:14:40  <Ailure> some of thoose pictures
21:14:50  <Ailure> looks straight out from a typical cyberpunk movie
21:14:55  <Ailure> such as people using road signs as shields
21:16:14  <Ailure> meh but I wish thoose people would spend energy fighting agianst something that means something
21:16:17  <Ailure> not over some squatted house
21:17:28  <Ailure> hadn't appeared on Swedish news
21:17:31  <Ailure> but it probably will soon
21:17:54  <Bjarni> it was last Saturday
21:17:59  <Ailure> hmm
21:18:04  <Bjarni> so a week ago
21:18:05  <Ailure> then it's probably been mentioned
21:18:07  <Ailure> I just missed it
21:18:26  <Ailure> I don't watch TV much
21:18:32  <Ailure> and last saturdahy I was busy studying
21:18:41  <Ailure> so anything newsworthy flew over my hed
21:18:42  <Ailure> :/
21:19:53  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:19:59  <Bjarni> here they talk about it every day. The newest part is that the major will talk about finding a new building for them if they agree to stop the violence and leave the building. They refused as they see it as unrealistic to do so.... or something
21:25:10  <Bjarni> ok, channel died
21:25:13  <hylje> :o
21:25:17  <Bjarni> did you all go rioting or something?
21:27:01  <Bjarni> hmm
21:27:21  <Rubidium> probably
21:27:30  <Bjarni> Some Norwegians attacked a Danish building in Norway because of this and got arrested
21:27:38  <Bjarni> now I noticed that Kjetil is missing
21:29:52  *** peter1138 [] has joined #openttd
21:31:28  <Rubidium> hi peter1138, must suck a _lot_ that DSL still isn't fixed
21:31:49  <Bjarni> what's wrong with it?
21:32:00  <Bjarni> don't just say "it broke" :p
21:32:11  <peter1138> it b... oh
21:33:07  <Jango> problem with ISP or telephone network?
21:33:33  <Bjarni> he got his phoneline, so it's not all bad
21:34:08  <Bjarni> my ISP once broke something and fixed it just like 2 minutes after all my connections timed out
21:34:47  <peter1138> MeusH: i think the 32bpp branch needs your explosion :D
21:34:57  <Jango> lol
21:34:58  * MeusH explodes
21:35:05  <MeusH> so what's up peter1138 ?
21:35:17  <Bjarni> nothing explodes, burns or riots in here
21:35:19  <peter1138> <-- this one
21:35:47  <peter1138> MeusH: nothing much, i thought i might svn up with loads of changes, but alas not
21:36:17  *** Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
21:36:53  <Bjarni> I once saw a video like that on TV. A freight train hit an oil tank lorry. The lorry never drove again and the driver died.... nothing happened to the train, that just moved on so fast that it didn't even catch fire
21:37:41  <Bjarni> usually those lorries are rather big, but not when hit by freight trains
21:38:17  <hylje> scale
21:38:36  <MeusH> peter1138, that's a good topic... effects
21:38:38  <hylje> a train hitting something at full speed is a pretty cool sight
21:38:45  <MeusH> do you have any plans of effect system?
21:38:47  <MeusH> particles?
21:38:55  <peter1138> i have no plans for anything
21:38:58  <MeusH> maybye some other developer has plans?
21:38:59  <Ailure> heh
21:39:05  <Ailure> train versus lorries
21:39:08  <peter1138> feh
21:39:12  <peter1138> it's not like we talk to each other ;p
21:39:15  <Ailure> is one of thoose things tht transpo tycoon got right from the start
21:39:33  <Prof_Frink> Ailure: Not quite
21:39:35  <Ailure> although in reality, the train probably stops afterwards as a safety measure
21:39:39  <peter1138> might be nice if the train stopped...
21:39:49  <Ailure> yeah
21:39:54  <Prof_Frink> Trucks hitting stationary trains a 2mph still explode in ttd
21:40:00  <Ailure> true
21:40:01  <Ailure> heh
21:40:11  <Ailure> but most of the time it's the really fast trains
21:40:14  <Ailure> that tends to hit them
21:40:20  <hylje> and have something like 1/10 chance to blow the train up too
21:40:21  <Prof_Frink> Although persuading them to do so takes a bit of skill
21:40:38  <Gonozal_VIII> openttd water lets things explode
21:40:48  <Prof_Frink> Also, trains can drive through ships
21:40:48  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	maybye some other developer has plans? <-- not me... well I got a lot of plans, but not regarding this issue
21:40:53  <Ailure> that was a change
21:41:00  <Ailure> since trains could be used as waterblocks before
21:41:02  <Ailure> which looked stupid
21:41:11  <Ailure> so now trains explode when water is next to the railway xD
21:41:12  <MeusH> I created some effects for quake engine
21:41:13  <MeusH> for a mod
21:41:26  <MeusH> OpenTTD doesn't have particles
21:41:33  <MeusH> but sprites could do the trick
21:41:52  <MeusH> it would be a matter to give a formula to a effect sprite
21:42:14  <MeusH> that would calculate new position, size, color change and transparency for a sprite
21:42:21  <Bjarni> we could also just make the whole game 3D, giving every single smoke, fire or cloud cool effects
21:42:29  <Bjarni> also, we could decide not to do so
21:42:33  * Prof_Frink deploys wget and watches the internets slow down
21:42:36  <hylje> 3d ottd would be quite ftw
21:42:50  <Bjarni> fun to watch?
21:42:59  <hylje> that too
21:43:04  <Bjarni> fuck the what?
21:43:16  <hylje> not rly
21:43:33  <Bjarni> what did you mean by "ftw"?
21:43:33  <MeusH> for the win
21:43:37  <MeusH> better
21:43:41  <MeusH> owning
21:43:43  <MeusH> pr0
21:43:47  <MeusH> elite
21:43:48  <MeusH> :D
21:44:04  <Prof_Frink> ftw ftl; acf acf.
21:44:07  <Ailure> There's a 3D port of TT
21:44:14  <Ailure> but it looks kinda funny
21:44:20  <Bjarni> if we do that, we should do it right
21:44:34  <Ailure> but thwen it was made for the orginal playstation I belive
21:45:04  <Ailure> well being able to actually ride a train is awesome
21:45:14  <Ailure> things looks quite diffrent from a ground level
21:45:22  <peter1138> yeah, map all vehicle sprites to cubes,  hee
21:45:39  <MeusH> I played Codename Panzers Phase One recently
21:45:40  <Bjarni> thinking about it, a lot of the CPU time is spend on drawing stuff. Maybe moving the load to a GPU would actually increase overall speed
21:45:42  <MeusH> I discovered a train
21:45:43  <XeryusTC> a quick question: where are the speed multipliers for vehicles (particulary aircraft) stored?
21:45:49  <MeusH> I put my soldiers aboard
21:45:57  <MeusH> and went to nazi controled village
21:46:02  <MeusH> train was awesome
21:46:09  <MeusH> with all steam coming from under the loco
21:46:24  <Bjarni> XeryusTC: nowhere in particular... they are just what they are, so they are magic numbers used whenever a window is drawn
21:46:45  <Bjarni> MeusH: screenshots?
21:46:55  <MeusH> wait a minute or two :)
21:47:05  <Ailure> Bjarni, I belive that's what some people says about newer OS's who depends more on PPU for GUI than CPU
21:47:06  <Ailure> or something
21:47:15  <MeusH> or five.. whatever, you're here from eternity and you won't leave ever :)
21:47:23  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: i meant the thing for "move x pixels every tick at speed y"
21:47:48  <Bjarni> ahh, I thought you meant internal speed -> displayed km/h thing
21:48:15  <Bjarni> hmm
21:48:24  <XeryusTC> i seem to recall something about tables/
21:48:33  <XeryusTC> but i cant recall which file it was exactly
21:48:39  <peter1138> PPU ?
21:49:09  <[gen2]niki> if i download the svn branch of 32bpp
21:49:18  <[gen2]niki> what will be different to current openttd?
21:49:23  <Bjarni> look in the vehicle loop, that runs for each tick. It calls a function for each vehicle type and those functions got to access that info somehow
21:49:48  <Bjarni> I think the actual functions are in (vehicle)_cmd.c
21:49:54  <Ailure> Picture processing unit?
21:49:56  <Ailure> D:
21:50:03  <Ailure> haha
21:50:04  <Ailure> wait wtf
21:50:10  <Ailure> nevermind me using that term
21:50:15  <Ailure> it's not used for modern PC's
21:50:22  <peter1138> Bjarni: "Maybe moving the load to a GPU would actually increase overall speed" <- that's kind of the principle behind windows vista's stuff...
21:50:28  <Ailure> It's used for stuff like
21:50:30  <Ailure> the NES
21:50:37  <Ailure> which i recently messed around with
21:50:41  <Ailure> by coding some assembly
21:51:15  <Born_Acorn> [21:46:30] <MeusH> I played Codename Panzers Phase One recently <-- I have that
21:51:29  <Born_Acorn> And one of the original Alpha versions
21:51:32  <Born_Acorn> of Phase2
21:51:45  <Bjarni> peter1138: I said "maybe", not something that we should rush to do, if we do it
21:52:00  <peter1138> XeryusTC: there are no speed multipliers
21:52:08  <XeryusTC> oh
21:52:28  <XeryusTC> so there is no way to make vehicles faster?
21:52:34  <XeryusTC> apart from editing grfs
21:52:35  <Ailure> I wish there were
21:52:43  <Ailure> various planesets
21:52:51  <Ailure> assumes that there's a speed multiplier patch option apparently
21:52:53  <Bjarni> it works rather well in OSX, except they rely on a certain function that the first generation of G3 lacks (ok, the GPU lacks it) and they do it in software, which renders them more or less useless in OSX
21:52:59  <Ailure> which makes some aircraft useless in thoose sets
21:53:06  <Ailure> or painfully slow
21:53:17  <XeryusTC> Ailure: that's just OTTD
21:53:36  <Gonozal_VIII> aircraft aree painfully slow
21:53:43  <Bjarni> using the GPU should not mean that we add a whole lot of stuff to overload the GPU, but just move the tasks away from the CPU
21:53:51  <Gonozal_VIII> 800km/h aircraft = 200km/h train
21:54:00  <Bjarni> no
21:54:16  <Bjarni> now you talk about the displayed multiplier
21:54:19  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, compared them on parallel routes :-)
21:54:41  <Bjarni> it's 8 for planes while it's 5/8 or some other weird number for trains
21:54:55  <Ailure> and for road vehicles and ships?
21:55:06  <Gonozal_VIII> why isn't it the same?
21:55:14  <Bjarni> road vehicles and ships got the same multiplier and they are twice as fast as trains
21:55:23  <Ailure> hmm
21:55:30  <Bjarni> road @ 64 km/h is the same speed as train @ 128 km/h
21:55:39  <Gonozal_VIII> makes no sense...
21:55:53  <Ailure> actually makes sense from when I compre from memory
21:56:03  <Bjarni> we should clear this and it's easy to do so, but it's not done yet due to balance issues
21:56:10  <Ailure> but road vehicles becomes much more expensive than trains in running costs
21:56:13  <XeryusTC> heh
21:56:20  <XeryusTC> but where can i edit those multipliers?
21:56:35  <Bjarni> they are magic numbers everywhere speed is displayed
21:56:39  <peter1138> ...
21:56:52  <hylje> magic numbers!
21:56:53  <Ailure> magic numbers are fun
21:56:55  <hylje> oh, bjarni is back?
21:56:57  <Bjarni> I didn't say this would be easy :P
21:56:57  <XeryusTC> hmm
21:57:03  <peter1138> they're not multipliers, as i already said
21:57:12  <peter1138> i've got a patch that makes the aircraft units match train units
21:57:25  <Gonozal_VIII> could be balanced in a different way... make the payment decrease faster or something... but it looks funny when a train with 250 km/h is faster than a plane at full speed
21:57:43  <XeryusTC> peter1138: cool, can i have it?
21:57:47  <Ailure> was this the case with orginal TT?
21:57:55  <Ailure> I swear that planes were really fast in orginal TT
21:57:58  <peter1138> no
21:58:05  <peter1138> there are some "issues"
21:58:15  <XeryusTC> such as?
21:58:51  <hylje> planes being so fucking fast that they keep missing airports?
21:58:54  <MeusH> Born_Acorn, I have both phase one and phase two
21:58:58  <peter1138> pretty much
21:59:11  <MeusH> I thought I could play with my dad on LAN, but he doesn't have graphical card with T&L
21:59:13  <peter1138> they don't stop properly
21:59:33  <[gen2]niki> is there already a binary using the 32bit graphics shown in the wiki?
21:59:45  <Bjarni> MeusH: screenshots.... :p
21:59:51  <MeusH> uploading
21:59:55  <MeusH>
21:59:57  <MeusH>
21:59:57  <Bjarni> nice
22:00:00  <MeusH>
22:00:37  <MeusH> [gen2]niki - yes, there is, but I don't know where. I just know it exists because some people show screenshots from it
22:01:05  <[gen2]niki> MeusH the socalled 32pbb svntrunk doesnt show them ;p
22:01:16  <Bjarni> Codename Panzer... might be worth checking out
22:01:27  <hylje> Bjarni: for the trains?
22:01:32  <peter1138> trunk doesn't have any 32bpp stuff, heh
22:01:35  <peter1138> but
22:01:42  <Bjarni> in general
22:01:47  <peter1138> chocolate "it's not orange it's mint" are nice
22:01:55  <Born_Acorn> MeusH, mine were for free as I adminned the CDV forums. :p
22:01:58  <Bjarni> it looks a whole lot different from what I imagined and I never saw screenshots from it before
22:02:03  <XeryusTC> hmm, ill continue working with slow aircraft then
22:02:20  <XeryusTC> but it really sucks to see that my 140km/h aircraft is outrun by an 72km/h train
22:02:33  <[gen2]niki> i mean the branch
22:02:34  <[gen2]niki> ;p
22:02:37  <peter1138> XeryusTC: do you want a quick fix?
22:02:43  <XeryusTC> yes
22:02:48  <peter1138> aircraft_cmd.c:2029
22:03:02  <peter1138> change the 6 to 24
22:03:13  <MeusH> I had a pirated version, but when I saw Phase One and Phase Two for 25 zl (6.55 EUR) I bought it
22:03:17  <XeryusTC> ok
22:03:25  <MeusH> and I'm happy with it
22:03:33  <[gen2]niki> afk
22:03:41  *** RichK67 [~RichK67@] has joined #openttd
22:03:54  <XeryusTC> ty
22:04:25  <peter1138> beware of superspeedy taxiing though :)
22:04:34  <PandaMojo> TAXI MAN!!!
22:04:38  <peter1138> i think they load pretty quickly too...
22:04:47  <PandaMojo> Taxi man!!! Nobody taxis like taxi man!
22:04:59  <XeryusTC> hmm
22:05:03  <XeryusTC> they do taxi fast
22:05:04  <peter1138> (that's what ttdpatch's planespeed 4 does, btw)
22:05:19  <XeryusTC> but then, it gets to top speed while taxiing
22:05:46  <Bjarni> you mean they go even faster than 154 km/h while taxiing?
22:05:53  <Bjarni> now that sounds somewhat dangerous
22:06:00  <peter1138> yeah
22:06:07  <peter1138> well
22:06:12  <peter1138> that's why my did the units patch
22:06:17  <peter1138> so they still taxi at a proper speed
22:06:24  <peter1138> -my
22:06:28  <XeryusTC> hmm
22:06:36  <XeryusTC> i will look that one up when i get a decent IDE again
22:06:37  <peter1138> +I
22:06:48  <XeryusTC> i only have a UltraEdit
22:06:50  <hylje> gvim ought to be enough for anyone
22:06:57  <XeryusTC> which makes devving suck
22:07:09  <peter1138> well, now 0.5's out the way it might make more headway
22:07:15  <MeusH> MiHaMiX, ping
22:07:20  *** RichK67 [~RichK67@] has quit []
22:08:16  <Gonozal_VIII> where the payment is calculated there should be a variable for the time that the transport took... you could balance there and leave the displayed speed alone
22:08:53  <XeryusTC>
22:09:01  <MeusH> I'm not so sure about letting user decide about such a things...
22:09:20  <MeusH> but it would be their loss, it would be them who had no skill
22:09:38  <MeusH> wwhat's that XeryusTC?
22:09:42  <Bjarni> we should totally rebalance the game. Running costs for planes should be much greater when they are in the air and running costs should depend on activity of the vehicle
22:09:59  <XeryusTC> MeusH: a sepia OTTD screenshot...
22:10:32  <Bjarni> XeryusTC: you are so bad at photoshop that you had to remove the colours to hide your changes?
22:10:41  <Bjarni> :P
22:10:45  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: yes and no
22:11:03  <XeryusTC> there is no good way to do sepia with colours :(
22:11:21  <XeryusTC> it is just like someone overlaid a semi-transparent brown layer then :P
22:11:26  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
22:11:59  <MeusH> Bjarni: Half a year ago Celestar was said to have been the one who was going to take care of rebalancing
22:12:08  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
22:12:22  <MeusH> is it abandoned, or waiting for ~0.7?
22:12:29  <Gonozal_VIII> basic cost + extracost * speed
22:12:31  <Bjarni> then he got busy
22:12:47  <XeryusTC> Celestar has a RL issue i guess
22:12:54  <Bjarni> yeah
22:13:10  <Bjarni> something about Ph.D. and uni research or something
22:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you guys spam too much ;)
22:14:11  <Bjarni> but I never eat spam
22:15:54  <peter1138> you should
22:16:35  *** michi_cc is now known as michi_cc-away
22:16:58  <Bjarni> btw what is spam? :)
22:17:08  <peter1138> meat
22:17:24  <Bjarni> can you be a bit more specific?
22:17:43  <Bjarni> McDonald's claims to serve meat as well, but that's not the same as I would eat it
22:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the 2nd worst train accident in the german history was a passenger train with hundreds of children on board hitting a fuel-truck
22:17:54  <MeusH>
22:18:06  <peter1138> no :)
22:18:06  <peter1138> actually it's spiced ham...
22:18:12  <peter1138> sp'am
22:18:23  <Bjarni> ahh
22:18:49  <MeusH> McDonald's meat is similiar to my footing (sole)
22:19:08  * Bjarni feels sorry for MeusH
22:19:18  <peter1138> mcdonalds sell meat? hmm
22:19:23  <MeusH> Thanks :)
22:19:28  <MeusH> good question peter1138 :D
22:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause>ück_von_Langenweddingen <- (doesn't appear to have an english version)
22:20:32  <MeusH> what's that Eddi|zuHause
22:20:33  <MeusH> ?
22:20:40  <Wolf01> 'night all
22:20:42  <Bjarni> a link in German
22:20:42  <MeusH> who's that*
22:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> a train hitting a truck
22:20:45  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit []
22:20:46  <MeusH> goodnight Wolf
22:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the truck exploded, and burnt down most of the train
22:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> killing almost 100 people (mostly children)
22:21:46  <peter1138> here's a question
22:21:55  <peter1138> road vehicles are half the speed of trains, right?
22:22:09  <peter1138> so... do we double the speed of rvs or halve the speed of trains...
22:22:21  <Bjarni> reminds me of when two planes hit each other over Germany a few years ago. They were a cargo plane and a Russian plane full of gifted children, who should attend something special for children with special talents or something
22:22:24  <Bjarni> everybody died
22:22:28  <peter1138> (all being optional, heh)
22:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that was over switzerland, afaik
22:22:47  <XeryusTC> :)
22:23:17  <peter1138> argh, screenshots on 33k modem :(
22:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> or they were under control of a swiss airport
22:23:25  <Bjarni> including the flight control guy on the ground. He was murdered by an angry dad even though there was little he could have done. He told one plane to go up and the other to go down to avoid hitting each other. They both went down
22:23:33  <peter1138> (did you reconvert those images to 8bpp?)
22:24:14  <MeusH> he is "ofcause running linux" :P
22:24:54  <Gonozal_VIII> the anti collision system in the planes told the pilotes the opposite of the control guy
22:25:34  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: they crashed in Southern Germany, but that's not the same as they crashed where the control guy were located
22:25:36  <hylje> XeryusTC: we should make a themed OpenTTDCoop game!
22:25:57  <MeusH> goodnight
22:26:00  <XeryusTC> hylje: shut up, im doing that from time to time with pax games
22:26:04  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
22:26:13  <hylje> :-(
22:27:04  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:27:24  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
22:27:24  <peter1138> oh no, pikka's down a rolling stock page...
22:28:14  <XeryusTC> ?
22:29:01  <peter1138> *done
22:29:08  <XeryusTC> oh
22:29:17  <Gonozal_VIII> don't tell, it's secret!
22:29:20  <peter1138> most stuff to read and try and be 'real' with, heh
22:29:20  <peter1138> *more
22:29:20  <peter1138> bloody keyboard
22:30:01  <Gonozal_VIII> your keyboard replaces words with different correct english words?
22:30:12  <hylje> :o
22:30:15  <peter1138> yes!
22:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> strange, mine's only replacing perfectly valid stuff with a lot of garbage
22:31:22  <Gonozal_VIII> so does mine
22:32:37  <Gonozal_VIII> especially when i try to write foreign languages like english or german
22:33:12  <Eddi|zuHause> makes one wonder what you consider a native language ;)
22:33:54  <Gonozal_VIII> austrian of course^^
22:34:03  <hylje> what do you meaggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
22:34:11  <hylje> sorry, typo
22:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> gesundheit!
22:34:15  <hylje> i mean hi
22:35:04  <Darkvater> .
22:35:17  <peter1138> do de do de dum
22:35:24  <peter1138> mr 'vater
22:35:37  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: bless you
22:36:21  <Bjarni> hylje: you better get your keyboard checked for malfunctions
22:36:36  <Bjarni> like fingers, that keeps pressing certain keys
22:36:38  <Darkvater> he, it took me the better half on an hour to get wireless up and running again
22:36:52  <Prof_Frink> that all?
22:36:53  <Darkvater> just as I was about to give up and use the desktop instead of the laptop itmagically worked
22:36:53  <glx> hmm openttd -h gives empty message box (win32) with 0.5.0-RC1 downloaded from
22:36:59  <Bjarni> so you are connected wirelessly right now?
22:37:09  <Prof_Frink> You should try playing with ndiswrapper
22:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> wäääh... something broke my "su" ... 'assertion "initgr_resp->ngrps > 0" failed'
22:37:29  <Gonozal_VIII> wlan works much better with a brand new wlan cable from ebay
22:37:35  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
22:37:36  <hylje> wlan cable :-)
22:37:39  <Darkvater> peter1138: are you sure about action 0xE (GrfInhibit)? If the grfid to be deactivated is the same as the current file, the grf should be force-activated is what ttdp specs say
22:37:44  <Darkvater> eh I'm using winxp
22:38:10  <peter1138> oh
22:38:10  <Darkvater> glx: I get a box with text if I start with -h
22:38:17  <peter1138> well change it then
22:38:26  <Bjarni> Darkvater: before you time out, it's nice of you to drop by ;)
22:38:30  <Darkvater> but I don't know what force-activate is and how to do it :(
22:38:42  <Darkvater> eg it should also work in the title screen
22:38:42  <Bjarni> Darkvater: you can improve your stability with a 20 meter wifi cable
22:38:46  <Darkvater> which is what it is for
22:38:50  <hylje> its funny that people are already assuming others use linux now
22:38:57  <Bjarni> and use it as antenna
22:38:59  <Darkvater> Bjarni: it doesn't matter, it even bitches if i'[m 50 cm from the router
22:39:05  <Darkvater> and once it works, I can go anywhere
22:39:08  <Darkvater> fucking windows :(
22:39:17  <peter1138> Darkvater: no, neither do i
22:39:28  <peter1138> if it's running the action E, it's not deactivated...
22:39:44  <Darkvater> but it will be cause action E is unsafe
22:39:45  <peter1138> otoh
22:39:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i have no problems with wlan under xp on my laptop
22:39:51  <Darkvater> so it'll be deactivated in the title screen
22:40:11  <peter1138> huh?
22:40:14  <Darkvater> that's why czech users are bitching about their font-replacement, or the alpine set doesn't work fofr example
22:40:24  <peter1138> ahh
22:40:34  <peter1138> heh
22:41:17  <peter1138> font replacements have no need to use action E... tum te tum
22:41:33  <peter1138> but it is possible to check if it's safe
22:42:41  <Darkvater> well not at the moment. as soon as E is encountered grfunsafe is run and *bamm*
22:43:12  <Darkvater> unless you execute the action inside grfunsafe which can return true/false if indeed the detailed description of E is safe/unsafe
22:43:45  <Darkvater> peter1138: < love your reply there
22:44:28  <peter1138> yes
22:45:20  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:46:31  <peter1138> that's the "it is possible" bit
22:46:51  <peter1138> same from action 0x0, feature 0x6, property 0xD is safe...
22:47:01  <peter1138> ...
22:47:03  <peter1138> from -> as
22:48:56  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:52:43  <peter1138> nini
22:52:58  <peter1138> Darkvater: connection sucking, but...
22:53:09  <peter1138>                 /* Unset activation flag */
22:53:14  <peter1138> -               if (file != NULL) {
22:53:14  <peter1138> +               if (file != NULL && file != _cur_grfconfig) {
22:53:20  <peter1138> -
22:53:20  <peter1138> -                       /* Skip processing if the GRF deactivated itself */
22:53:20  <peter1138> -                       if (file == _cur_grfconfig) _skip_sprites = -1;
22:53:25  *** peter1138 [] has quit [Quit: modem :(]
22:53:31  <Born_Acorn> Hmm, what is the link for commit logs?
22:54:48  <Bjarni> typical forum users. They complain about an issue in the mac binary, I post a new one and ask them to test it and... nobody replies even though 6 people downloaded it so far, not even after I posted a request for those 6 people to reply
22:55:13  <Born_Acorn> It might be one Windows noob who downloaded it six times!
22:55:30  <Born_Acorn> Thinking it was pron!
22:55:43  <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: !openttd commit <rev>
22:55:43  <Bjarni> but then what about the mac guys, who requested it?
22:55:50  <Bjarni> they didn't reply
22:56:05  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater, isn't there a list that shows them all somewhere, though?
22:56:20  <Darkvater> ah, the list; the list is offline
22:56:23  <Born_Acorn> aww.
22:56:24  <Darkvater> you can do 'svn log'
22:56:28  <Darkvater> or use tortoisesvn
22:56:29  <Nigel_> Bjarni, it's human nature
22:56:37  <Nigel_> give no thanks when it works
22:56:39  *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel
22:56:56  <Bjarni> actually I wrote that I needed a reply or the problem would still be in 0.5.0
22:57:06  <Bjarni> so it's in their own interest to get this solved
22:57:40  <Nigel> Poll:  Do you read forum posts in full? (a) Yes, (b) No, (c) Donald Trump
22:57:41  <Nigel> :P
22:57:49  <Bjarni> failure to open the application should be severe enough to get them testing, specially because "can you start the game with this file?" should be fairly fast to test
22:58:00  <Bjarni> Nigel: c
22:58:04  <Bjarni> oops
22:58:07  <Bjarni> I meant d
22:58:14  <Nigel> haha :P
22:58:45  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
22:59:48  <Bjarni> what kind of domain is that???
22:59:54  <Bjarni> sexy big getje
23:00:08  <Bjarni> sounds like porn
23:00:21  <Bjarni> damn Sacro is not here
23:00:35  <Bjarni> I'm not clicking on strange links, but he would
23:01:44  <Prof_Frink> Oh yeah, Sacro Would.
23:02:05  <Bjarni> just mention sex or boobs and any link and he will click it
23:02:30  <Bjarni> even if it's
23:03:24  <Born_Acorn> Its just a personal blog
23:03:30  <Bjarni> lol
23:03:46  <Born_Acorn> I had to click to advance the total knowledge of #openttd
23:03:48  * Bjarni notes that Sacro bait works on Born_Acorn as well
23:03:58  <Born_Acorn> It was a sacrifice, but it paid off
23:04:15  <[gen2]niki> hey ;o i have a problem: my cars brake down very often.. iam on normal out of order settings.. but the cars break down all 3-5 seconds
23:04:16  <Born_Acorn> Not
23:04:18  <Born_Acorn> the other one
23:04:19  <Born_Acorn> Hi there. By now you have read that my name is Martijn de Boer a.k.a. Sexybiggetje, and you probably guessed that i'm located in the Netherlands. I was born in April 1986, making me 20 years now. Currently i'm hired for a new job involving Actionscript at first, and overtime we'll see where the company and I are heading. My speciality is webdevelopmen
23:04:23  <Bjarni> hey, they got new pics of boobs on
23:04:44  <Born_Acorn> I don't need to go there, I get windows updates automatically!
23:04:49  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, boobies
23:05:11  <Prof_Frink> I don't need to go there, I don't get windows updates
23:05:43  <Bjarni> hey, naked people on
23:05:48  * Bjarni hides
23:06:34  * Bjarni wonders if he should kick everybody clicking that link as the channel should not contain mentally disturbed people
23:07:11  <Bjarni> btw what is that page? got a lot of references to it, but I never dared to go there
23:07:38  <[gen2]niki> some nasty guy sticks the finger in his anus and spreads it... usual link jokes...
23:08:07  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: talk to dave2 on freenode.
23:08:16  <Prof_Frink> He's something of a goatse-fanatic
23:08:38  <Prof_Frink> but got taken down
23:10:10  <_minime_> [02:41] <peter1138> font replacements have no need to use action E... tum te tum -- why is that? afaik, just having an action 12 in a grf that is not active will not load those glyphs into the game.
23:10:34  <Bjarni> hey, my friend and fellow evil genius showed up
23:10:55  <Bjarni> <-- speaking of
23:11:00  <Darkvater> good night all :)
23:11:10  <_minime_> at least when we're talking about TTDP, which could be considered a standard implementation of GRF ...
23:11:32  <Darkvater> _minime_: donnu if you have noticed but peter is not here
23:11:44  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
23:11:56  <_minime_> oopsie :D
23:12:18  <Darkvater> _minime_: he has problems with his connection so in on dial-up wont' see him too much
23:12:21  <Darkvater> < sleep
23:12:29  <Bjarni> well I'm here
23:12:31  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:12:51  <Bjarni> and now that you are here as well, I will include you in my evil plan for world domination
23:12:54  *** [gen2]niki [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
23:13:09  * Bjarni includes _minime_ in his plan for world domination
23:13:13  <_minime_> Darkvater: ok, thanks
23:13:35  * _minime_ is glad to be included in a world domination plan
23:13:54  <Bjarni> I needed some cannon fodder anyway
23:13:58  <_minime_> well, as long as my role doesn't involve being sacrificed for some reason....
23:14:08  <_minime_> hmmm
23:14:21  * _minime_ will have to rethink that :D
23:14:38  <Bjarni> you mean you want to be on the space vehicle instead?
23:14:48  <Born_Acorn> Dial up still exists?
23:14:53  *** Belugas_Gone [] has joined #openttd
23:14:56  <Born_Acorn> Wasn't is nuked or something?
23:14:56  <_minime_> i'd prefer to be in the vehicle, if possible
23:15:01  <Bjarni> that would be arranged
23:15:23  <Born_Acorn> _minime_, what about on the floor of the vehicle?
23:15:36  <Bjarni> _minime_: are you a good pilot?
23:16:14  *** Celestar [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:16:24  <_minime_> that remains to be seen
23:16:32  <_minime_> but i don't take too much space...
23:16:52  <_minime_> i suppose that's an advantage?
23:17:15  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
23:17:48  <Bjarni> yeah
23:17:55  <Bjarni> that leaves more room for the atomic bomb
23:18:01  <Born_Acorn> hmm. The bridge branch has changed a bit
23:18:08  <Born_Acorn> You can't build over flat stations. :(
23:18:49  <_minime_> lovely
23:19:00  <_minime_> i'll make sure to send a few of my clones your way
23:19:12  <Gonozal_VIII> would have been nice... but over diagonal tracks is a huge improvement
23:20:02  <SpComb> Logs:
23:20:02  <Gonozal_VIII> !logs
23:20:22  <Gonozal_VIII> i missed a few minutes^^
23:20:25  <_minime_> I guarantee they will be at least as evil as I am
23:20:42  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: damn you. Damn you to hell.
23:20:49  <Prof_Frink>
23:21:21  <Bjarni> I can't go to hell
23:21:30  <Bjarni> my evil plan will make me immortal
23:22:19  <Bjarni> <limited7> i have for(n = 1; n < 99; n = n /2) why is it loopin forever? <--- is that the next wouldbe patch writer showing up on the forum?
23:23:08  <_minime_> lol
23:25:27  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
23:26:05  <Brianetta> Born_Acorn: (:
23:26:59  <Born_Acorn> Brianetta, have you seen Pikkas Christmas present to you? :p
23:27:29  <Brianetta> no?
23:27:38  * Brianetta is at his mujm's house in Wiltshire
23:27:45  <Born_Acorn>
23:27:49  <Bjarni> <--- well, I can imagine certain people ask that
23:28:12  <Bjarni> I mean people, who would not know what it is
23:28:25  * Brianetta looks
23:28:44  <Brianetta> Pikka came through!
23:28:52  <Born_Acorn> Brianetta,
23:28:54  <Bjarni> Brianetta or anybody in his (large) family would not be asking that though :P
23:28:57  <Born_Acorn> "Merry Christmas Brianetta"
23:28:58  <Born_Acorn> :p
23:29:02  <Gonozal_VIII> it burns out your eyes end makes your head explode!
23:29:42  * Brianetta hugs and shares the love
23:32:14  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
23:34:32  <roboboy> gmorning
23:40:38  <Bjarni> merry Christmas roboboy
23:41:23  <Bjarni> odd thing to say since Christmas eve is still tomorrow here
23:46:51  <XeryusTC> wtf?
23:46:55  <XeryusTC> it's sunday already?
23:47:01  <XeryusTC> oh wait
23:47:06  <XeryusTC> its still 00:47
23:47:12  <XeryusTC> i thought i missed a complete day :s
23:47:14  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:47:56  <Bjarni> you thought you missed the 24th of December???
23:48:29  <XeryusTC> no, the 23th
23:48:36  <Bjarni> or actually, it would be Saturday you missed and that would make it the 23rd
23:49:53  <Bjarni> this reminds me of when I was really young (before I started in school), in the morning on my birthday, my brother decided to tell me that my birthday was yesterday and that we slept for a whole day
23:50:50  <XeryusTC> lol
23:51:21  <Bjarni> be believed him due to the age thing :(
23:51:51  <Bjarni> at least until my mother told me otherwise
23:52:32  <glx> hey Bjarni some replied to your post :)
23:52:48  <Bjarni> yeah, I just noticed
23:52:56  <Bjarni> and now stdc++ screwed up o_O
23:53:09  <glx> looks even worse
23:53:16  <Bjarni> <-- hey, awesome quote :D
23:53:53  <XeryusTC> heh
23:53:58  <XeryusTC> i saw that one comming :P
23:54:15  <Bjarni> glx: any ideas on how to solve the new issue?
23:54:30  <glx> no as I'm not a mac user
23:54:56  *** ufoun [~opera@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:55:34  <Bjarni> I'm not sure that it's mac specific... it's more like how I link to certain libs in unix style
23:55:55  <Bjarni> remember that it's a POSIX system using the makefile, just like other OSes
23:56:16  *** ufoun [~opera@] has joined #openttd
23:56:28  <glx> and remember I'm on XP :)
23:57:38  <Rubidium> Bjarni: have you compiled the binary on the OSX 10.4? Maybe the libraries are not backward compatible with 10.3.7?
23:58:11  <Bjarni> Rubidium: already took care of that. I linked against my 10.3.x SDK
23:58:31  <Bjarni> iconv fails otherwise
23:58:56  <Bjarni> hmm, I do have that lib as a statically linked lib
23:59:14  <Bjarni> but how to access it without making this "fix" even more messy...

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