Log for #openttd on 31st December 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:46  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7683 /branches/0.5/lang/ (18 files in 2 dirs):
00:01:46  <CIA-1> -Backport from trunk (r7552, r7553, r7574, r7581, r7601, r7611, r7654, r7658):
00:01:46  <CIA-1>  - Language file updates.
00:01:46  <CIA-1>  - Untranslated strings: Turkish (2), Swedish (1), Romanian (3), Norwegian (2),
00:01:46  <CIA-1>  Icelandic (217!), Hungarian (2), German (1), Galician (173), Finnish (26),
00:01:46  <CIA-1>  Danish (23), Czech (34), Bulgarian (39), Brazilian-Portugese (3)
00:05:04  <izhirahider> ouch
00:05:20  <Gonozal_VIII> wow
00:05:35  <izhirahider> are those out of the package?
00:13:19  <Rubidium> what package?
00:14:28  <Darkvater> hmm
00:14:35  <Darkvater> r7620 is not so straight-forward...
00:14:43  <Darkvater> thought I had it, but it asserts...
00:14:46  <Bjarni> !openttd log 7620
00:14:48  <_42_> Bjarni: r7620 log: -Fix: [OPF] signal update was incorrectly propagated:
00:14:50  <_42_> Bjarni:  - through incompatible rail types
00:14:52  <_42_> Bjarni:  - from under bridge track to the bridge ramp (peter1138)
00:14:54  <_42_> Bjarni:  - same for tunnels (from track on top of tunnel entry to the tunnel)
00:15:08  <Bjarni> isn't this due to the bridge merge?
00:15:18  <Darkvater> yes but I worked around it I thought
00:15:23  <KUDr> IsBridgeRamp() is missing there
00:15:32  <Darkvater> oh, you're here :)
00:15:34  <KUDr> Celestar removed it
00:15:41  <KUDr> (the function)
00:16:18  <Darkvater> so where do I add it?
00:16:33  <KUDr> moment i must look at it
00:19:36  <KUDr> line 310 in trunk: } else { if (IsBridge(tile)) {
00:19:41  <Bjarni> Darkvater: so are we closing in on a release tonight or will it happen tomorrow?
00:19:54  <Darkvater> } else if (IsBridge(tile)) { /* bridge ramp can be entered only from one direction (without custom bridge heads) */ if (GetBridgeRampDirection(tile) != direction) goto no_way;
00:20:04  <KUDr> add && IsBridgeRamp(tile)
00:20:08  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:20:08  <Darkvater> well after KUDr helps me out we're done :)
00:20:13  <izhirahider> Rubidium, my question was if untranslated languages were to be included in the package release when it comes out
00:20:14  <Bjarni> nice
00:20:21  <izhirahider> or was there some slack
00:20:51  <Bjarni> since this should not affect my ability to create a dmg file, I will verify that it still works right now
00:21:15  <Darkvater> KUDr:
00:21:16  <Darkvater> ?
00:21:26  <Rubidium> izhirahider: I think there is some slack
00:22:02  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-200-208.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
00:22:12  <KUDr> Darkvater: yes, this is how i would try it
00:22:17  <KUDr> and test
00:22:26  <Darkvater> KUDr: I had to put back the bridgemiddle tileowner thingie
00:22:28  <Darkvater> hmm
00:22:31  <Darkvater> what do I test?
00:22:50  <Athorium>  Darkvater what is this diff?
00:22:55  <KUDr> bridgemiddle is not needed to test for owner
00:23:10  <KUDr> or did you have issue with it?
00:23:16  <Darkvater> it conflicted :)
00:23:23  <Athorium> omg
00:23:24  <Darkvater> cause bridge-merge changed it
00:23:25  <KUDr> aha
00:23:43  <Darkvater> the question is how do I test it now? Cause I've no idea what I did ;p
00:24:06  <KUDr> the assert should not happen again
00:24:12  <Born_Acorn> Just hope nothing explodes
00:24:21  <KUDr> aha moment!
00:24:22  <Darkvater> yes it doesn't... but does it work?
00:24:51  <KUDr> the bridge part can be removed
00:24:52  <KUDr> +			} else if (IsBridge(tile) && IsBridgeRamp(tile)) {
00:24:53  <KUDr> +				/* bridge ramp can be entered only from one direction (without custom bridge heads) */
00:24:53  <KUDr> +				if (GetBridgeRampDirection(tile) != direction) goto no_way;
00:24:53  <KUDr> +			}
00:25:14  <KUDr> it is not needed withot bridges
00:25:32  <KUDr> as you can't have connected tracks under bridge
00:26:31  <Brianetta> Does anybody here know how to talk to the OpenTTD client's UDP server?
00:26:45  <Darkvater> Brianetta: to get the server info?
00:26:48  <Brianetta> yes
00:26:56  <Brianetta> I don't care what language it's told in
00:27:00  <Brianetta> I just want to know what to send
00:27:06  <Brianetta> and what to expect
00:27:24  <pv2b> Brianetta: there's a pretty good description in C
00:27:26  <Bjarni> building dmg files still works as intended
00:27:38  <Brianetta> pv2b: No, there's a pretty shit description in C
00:28:22  <Bjarni> there is a description in C that fits very well with how the game works, no incorrect info
00:29:05  <Darkvater> KUDr: ok, that also works :). So now to test it, do you have any testcases?
00:29:07  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Assume I'm coding in some other language...
00:29:21  <pv2b> Brianetta: you said you didn't care what language it was written in
00:29:27  <Bjarni> yeah
00:29:27  <pv2b> s/written/told/
00:29:28  <KUDr> Darkvater: just load some huge game
00:29:29  <Brianetta> I want a description
00:29:41  <pv2b> the C code is pretty descriptive
00:30:04  <Brianetta> dbg: [NET][UDP] Received invalid packet type 84
00:30:11  <Brianetta> It's not like I'm not trying...
00:30:35  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I realised that I only wrote in the svn log that we discontinued support for OSX older than 10.3.9. Any idea where to write that?
00:30:51  <Darkvater> I'll put it in the changelog
00:30:52  <pv2b> Brianetta: are you trying to send a PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER to the openttd server?
00:30:57  <Tuzlo> can someone look at and tell me why the 2 trains at Prentfingbourne Heights train station will not leave
00:30:59  <Darkvater> KUDr: done
00:31:03  <KUDr> ok
00:31:20  <Bjarni> also users of OSX 10.2.8 should use 0.4.8, which is the last supported OTTD version for that OSX version
00:31:32  <Brianetta> pv2b: I'm trying to send a OTTD_PACKET_UDP_QUERY_SERVER
00:31:39  <Rubidium> Brianetta: a packet starts with 2 bytes saying it's length
00:31:46  <pv2b> Brianetta: you mean PACKET_UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO?
00:31:52  <Rubidium> so try to send 0 3 0
00:31:53  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Is this documented?  That's a good start...
00:32:10  <Brianetta> pv2b: Frankly, I have no idea.  I need this explaining to me.
00:32:17  <pv2b> grepping for OTTD_PACKET_UDP_QUERY_SERVER finds nothing
00:32:28  <Tuzlo> frig, never mind
00:32:28  <Rubidium> pv2b: he has /website
00:32:31  <pv2b> okay. query?
00:32:33  <Brianetta> Well, that constant was nabbed from the website SVN
00:33:05  <pv2b> Rubidium: oh, he's reading the cgi script?
00:33:09  <pv2b> that's second hand information ;-)
00:33:12  <Darkvater> KUDr: so you say it's good?
00:33:21  <KUDr> yes
00:33:32  <Darkvater> it'll rest on your soul p
00:33:34  <KUDr> but i can be wrong :)
00:34:21  <Darkvater> hmm in what circumstance did this signal-bug over tunnel happen?
00:34:37  <KUDr> yes
00:34:49  <KUDr> it was so
00:35:08  <Darkvater> I know it happened, but when?
00:35:15  <KUDr> that you have build track ober tunnel that ended in the tunnel hole
00:35:21  <KUDr> but from opposite side
00:35:45  <KUDr> then train entering the tunnel
00:36:01  <KUDr> and you build signal on the top track
00:36:05  <KUDr> it gets red
00:36:13  <Gonozal_VIII> [01:30:57] <Tuzlo> can someone look at and tell me why the 2 trains at Prentfingbourne Heights train station will not leave <-- because they don't have to leave... the next station in their orders is the same
00:36:17  <KUDr> because of the train in the hole
00:37:12  <Rubidium> Brianetta: the data is send with the least significant byte first, so where I said you should send 0 3 0, it should really be 3 0 0
00:37:55  <Darkvater>
00:37:56  <Darkvater> like this?
00:38:21  <KUDr> enable build in pause
00:38:37  <KUDr> let train to enter the SE hole
00:38:47  <KUDr> goint to NW
00:38:52  <KUDr> going
00:38:57  <KUDr> and then stop
00:39:09  <Darkvater> before or after signal?
00:39:11  <KUDr> and build the signal on top track
00:39:33  <KUDr> when the train stays in the hole
00:40:22  <Darkvater> so the built signal should be red if bug is present/
00:40:24  <KUDr> the update must be spread from the signal
00:40:29  <KUDr> yes
00:40:30  <Brianetta> dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from
00:40:37  <Brianetta> Thanks, Rubidium...
00:40:44  * Darkvater tries 0.5.0-RC1
00:42:03  <Darkvater> ok, good that's solved
00:42:10  <Darkvater> KUDr: how about bridges? ;p
00:42:10  <KUDr> happened?
00:42:20  <KUDr> what with bridges?
00:42:30  <Darkvater> I mean it stayed green with patch, 0.5.0-RC1 it was red
00:42:42  <KUDr> well
00:42:46  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7620
00:42:48  <_42_> Commit by KUDr :: r7620 /trunk/pathfind.c (2006-12-29 17:51:16 UTC)
00:42:50  <_42_> -Fix: [OPF] signal update was incorrectly propagated:
00:42:52  <_42_>  - through incompatible rail types
00:42:54  <_42_>  - from under bridge track to the bridge ramp (peter1138)
00:42:56  <_42_>  - same for tunnels (from track on top of tunnel entry to the tunnel)
00:43:00  <Darkvater> it says 3 things here
00:43:09  <KUDr> remove the second
00:43:21  <KUDr> this was introduced by merge
00:43:44  <KUDr> same principle as the tunnel bug
00:44:02  <KUDr> but can't happen without merge
00:44:17  <Gonozal_VIII> [01:42:52] <_42_>  - through incompatible rail types <-- i thought people were using that for load balancing, priority lines and such
00:44:44  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: they can use dead junctions instead
00:45:17  <KUDr> path is not found through them, but signal is propagated
00:45:23  <Rubidium> Brianetta, about the reply: first two bytes are the size (same order), third byte the packet type which should be OTTD_PACKET_UDP_SERVER_RESPONSE (1). Then a lot of data about the game. This data is read in Recv_PacketServerResponse in
00:46:16  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Where does that packet get sent?
00:46:25  <Rubidium> info_version 4 added the newgrf data, which is count and then count times the GRF ID and MD5 checksum
00:46:48  <Rubidium> the SERVER_RESPONE packet?
00:46:55  <Brianetta> yes
00:47:02  <Brianetta> where does the UDP packet get sent?
00:47:44  <Rubidium> DEF_UDP_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER) in network_udp.c (starting at line 76)
00:48:25  <Darkvater> KUDr: ah ok
00:48:44  <Darkvater> now to test the incompatible rail bug :)
00:48:53  <KUDr> :)
00:49:21  <Darkvater> that doesn't apply to normal and electric, does it?
00:49:33  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:49:34  <KUDr> no
00:49:55  <KUDr> to normal or electric and other (mono or maglev)
00:50:25  <KUDr> or mag and mono
00:50:38  <Darkvater> oooh that was easy to find ;p
00:51:01  <KUDr> to test or find in the code?
00:51:07  <Darkvater> test if it exists
00:51:11  <KUDr> yes
00:51:18  <KUDr> it was used often
00:51:28  <KUDr> by some users
00:52:06  <KUDr> now they need to do ___/\___
00:52:10  <Darkvater> ook, I approve the patch :)
00:52:16  <KUDr> to propagate signals
00:52:32  <KUDr> oooh many thanks my master :)
00:52:42  <Darkvater> oh noo, thank you :D
00:52:56  <stillunknown> in which corner of the field is the 0 tile?
00:53:02  <Sacro> hehe
00:53:03  <Darkvater> NW
00:53:10  <Bjarni> <-- awesome
00:53:13  <Bjarni> o_O
00:53:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: you where on /queue as well then :)
00:53:32  <Bjarni> out of nowhere, I pasted a qdb quote at the same time as Sacro
00:53:47  <Bjarni> that's scary
00:54:00  <Bjarni> it's the first time qdb got mentioned today
00:54:13  <Bjarni> and I'm heading for bed (more or less)
00:54:29  <Darkvater> Bjarni: if you have 15-20 more you can make binary
00:54:44  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe he's your long lost twin^^
00:55:02  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7684 /branches/0.5/pathfind.c:
00:55:02  <CIA-1> -Backport from trunk (r7620):
00:55:02  <CIA-1>  - Bad signal update through incompatible rail types, bridge.
00:55:57  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: such insane statements could result in bans
00:56:07  <Bjarni>
00:56:45  <Bjarni> thinking about it, now I didn't click Sacro's link
00:57:12  <Bjarni> oh that one
00:57:44  <Bjarni> Sacro: that guy really showed up at that time and it turned out to be a real guy asking something and he didn't know what happened before he joined
00:57:53  <Bjarni> it was an awesome moment
00:58:03  <Bjarni> and eerie
00:58:55  <Sacro> hehe
00:59:05  <Sacro> shame i missed it
00:59:46  <Bjarni> that reminds me of that quote where they speak of a guy and he joins and one guy says "speak of the devil" and the next line someone named devil (or a l33t variation of it) joins
01:03:34  <Bjarni> damn, now I can't find it
01:10:10  <Bjarni> <-- ok.... Sacro: did you check stuff like this as well?
01:10:28  <Sacro> nah...never done that
01:11:32  <izhirahider> Is there a variable *in the code* that holds the number of cities in a map that I can use to debug something?
01:11:38  <izhirahider> I can't find it
01:11:45  <Bjarni> it reminds me of an incident a year or two ago. A steam train passed a station in Copenhagen and then somebody called 112 because it smelled like something was burning
01:11:53  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
01:12:58  <Sacro> lol
01:15:21  <Maedhros> izhirahider: how about GetNumTowns() from town.h ?
01:16:51  <Bjarni> [01:54:29] 	<Darkvater>	Bjarni: if you have 15-20 more you can make binary <-- I waited 22 minutes now
01:16:59  <Bjarni> got a new ETA?
01:17:42  <Bjarni> Darkvater: ?
01:18:12  <KUDr> dv is working on it i think
01:18:17  <izhirahider> Maedhros, thanks
01:19:20  <Darkvater> almost
01:19:48  <Rubidium> he's probably updating changelog.txt :)
01:20:23  *** eQualizer [] has joined #openttd
01:22:11  <Rubidium> CIA is again slow :)
01:22:15  <Darkvater> ya
01:22:51  <izhirahider> I wanted to check in the game how many cities there were
01:23:30  <Athorium> ETA?
01:23:31  * Bjarni kicks CIA-1
01:23:31  <CIA-1> ow
01:24:29  <ln-> was it a Pendolino that mr. Bond travelled on in the latest motion picture?
01:24:32  <Bjarni> heh, it's funny to see net activity. It's 0 bytes/s and once in a while it goes as high as 150 bytes/s when it gets a package from IRC
01:25:16  *** Peakki [] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
01:25:37  * Bjarni wonders about that quit message
01:25:59  <ln-> what's wrong with it?
01:26:00  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
01:26:08  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7685 /branches/0.5/ (4 files in 3 dirs) (2006-12-31 01:21:00 UTC)
01:26:10  <_42_> - Prepare 0.5 branch for release. Update readme's, bugs, installers, changelog, etc. to 0.5.0-RC2
01:26:10  <Bjarni> it's a plot against me. I better ban him before he spreads any more propaganda and lies in here
01:26:47  <Darkvater> there
01:27:02  <Darkvater> ...
01:27:03  <Bjarni> do we get a tagged version as well?
01:27:12  <Rubidium> it is already there :)
01:27:29  <Darkvater> sloooow
01:27:32  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
01:28:03  <Darkvater> he trac already has it, but
01:28:05  <Darkvater> ah there we go
01:28:06  <Bjarni> checking it out
01:28:06  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7686 /tags/0.5.0-RC2/ (972 files in 26 dirs) (2006-12-31 01:26:48 UTC)
01:28:08  <_42_> Release 0.5.0-RC2
01:28:32  <Bjarni> ok, I'm tired
01:28:59  <Bjarni> while checking out, I went "wow, network activity increased a lot. I wonder what happened"
01:29:25  <scia> I'm curious now...
01:29:27  * scia hides
01:30:20  <Darkvater> grrr
01:30:23  <Bjarni> scia: I caught KGB in their process of planting false evidence on my computer
01:30:32  <Bjarni> that's what happened
01:30:34  <Bjarni> :P
01:30:48  <Bjarni> Darkvater: something wrong?
01:30:51  <Darkvater> fucking beagle hogging all the cpu
01:30:55  <scia> logical explanation
01:31:58  <scia> watch out they don't infect you pc with polonium
01:32:02  <Rubidium> hmm, still no 0.5.0-RC2 servers :)
01:32:07  <Darkvater> lol
01:32:11  <Bjarni> lol
01:32:59  <Bjarni> scia: how would they fit that into TCP packages?
01:33:50  <scia> that... is topsecrect :p
01:34:39  <Bjarni> I don't trust you unless you tell me
01:35:47  <scia> pretty simple, they teleport it into you computer case
01:36:27  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
01:36:31  <Bjarni> err... I don't have room for it
01:36:43  <Bjarni> Darkvater: MD5 (openttd-0.5.0-RC2-osx.dmg) = ddf4bd5302f19154887099073f9b4318
01:36:59  <Bjarni> Darkvater: ETA on upload: 5:30
01:37:12  <Darkvater> kk
01:37:29  <Sacro> oh noes
01:37:41  <lolman> Oh noes indeed
01:37:42  <Bjarni> lolman: lol
01:37:45  <Sacro> lolman: i got my g25
01:37:50  <lolman> GRRR!
01:37:53  <lolman> LOL!
01:38:09  <lolman> And you ruin it on gtr2?
01:38:19  <lolman> The shame!
01:38:26  <Bjarni> what's a g25?
01:38:34  <lolman> A PC wheel
01:38:43  <Bjarni> cool
01:38:45  <Sacro> lolman: GTR2, rFactor, GT Legends, GP Legends
01:38:51  <lolman> Ewww
01:38:53  <lolman> :-x
01:38:58  <Sacro> didnt like LFS
01:39:06  <lolman> You ruin your G25 on ISI "sims" and rTractor?
01:39:12  <Bjarni> you put an engine on your computer.... now if you add a car battery as well, you will have a nice computer, that can follow you around like a dog
01:39:41  <ln-> Bjarni: do you wear a suit and a tie when you code openttd?
01:39:49  <Sacro> lolman: im sure you mean ISI "sims" and GP Legends
01:40:00  <Sacro> oh, and NR2003
01:40:03  <lolman> I'm sure I do too :P
01:40:05  <Bjarni> ln-: should I do that?
01:40:11  <lolman> Yuck!
01:40:34  <Sacro> lolman: what?
01:40:39  <Sacro> they are all fantastic games
01:40:42  <lolman> You wasted your money!
01:40:47  <Bjarni> ln-: why do you ask?
01:40:57  <Sacro> lolman: i only paid for the wheel and rfactor
01:41:01  <ln-> Bjarni: it could indicate that you take the coding seriously.
01:41:05  <lolman> Still you wasted it!
01:41:15  <Bjarni> lolman: you missed this:
01:41:25  <ln-> Bjarni: why do i ask... and why am i awake at 03:41...
01:41:32  <Bjarni> ln-: I only wear a tie when it's mandatory, like with the uniform
01:41:32  <Sacro> lolman: fine, what racing games should i get next/
01:41:37  <lolman> LFS :P
01:41:50  <Sacro> Bjarni: heh, i almost submitted that
01:42:12  <ln-> Bjarni: well so do i.  (what uniform?)
01:42:17  <Bjarni> maybe I should have kept the timestamps
01:42:30  <Bjarni> since that would tell that we did it at the same time
01:42:40  <Bjarni> ln-: railroad one
01:43:14  <Bjarni> I don't think I got access to any other uniforms
01:43:54  <Sacro> lolman: i got the demo, didnt seem to keen on it
01:44:16  <lolman> You can't handle teh realism :P
01:44:30  <Sacro> yeah, no real cars, no real tracks
01:44:32  <Bjarni> you know, people tend to react a great deal to a guy in a uniform
01:44:37  <lolman> Real physics ;-)
01:44:45  <Sacro> lolman: hardly
01:44:54  <lolman> More real that rTractor's
01:44:57  <lolman> than*
01:45:01  <Bjarni> Darkvater: upload complete
01:45:10  <Sacro> have you ever played rFactor, or are you just a fanboy?
01:45:19  <lolman> I have tried rFactor
01:45:27  <lolman> And I found it totally useless
01:45:33  <Bjarni> damn it's late
01:45:38  <Bjarni> I better get to bed
01:45:48  <Sacro> hmm, its only a 6.5MB update to V
01:45:55  <Bjarni> have fun
01:46:09  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:46:10  <Sacro> if she comes back i will :(
01:46:17  <lolman> She?
01:46:31  <Sacro> its only £24 for a full licence
01:46:37  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:46:39  <lolman> Yep, cheap :D
01:47:01  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7685 /branches/0.5/ (4 files in 3 dirs): - Prepare 0.5 branch for release. Update readme's, bugs, installers, changelog, etc. to 0.5.0-RC2
01:48:47  <glx> 25 min later :)
01:48:54  <Athorium> hou hou hou
01:48:56  <Born_Acorn> Banks are definately a problem. They should be constructed in towns automatically.
01:50:40  <Born_Acorn> Or they should be able to be funded if you have "Construct Primary Industries" on
01:52:07  <Sacro> hmm, i only have £3.51 in my paypal
01:52:25  <lolman> More than me, but I have a spare £12 in my LFS account
01:52:51  <lolman> Ready for S3 a few years down the line :D
01:53:53  <Sacro> hmm
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01:54:43  <Sacro> ive updated to U, i might try again
01:55:11  <Wolf01> 'night all
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01:55:16  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7686 /tags/0.5.0-RC2/ (6 files): Release 0.5.0-RC2
01:55:19  <lolman> What patch were you on?
02:01:57  <Sacro> V
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02:03:59  <lolman> V>U is a downgrade...
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02:04:45  <Nigel> woo... RC2
02:16:44  <Ailure> wait what
02:17:49  <Sacro> lolman: ive gone u->v
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02:20:30  <Tuzlo> I got an industry that says its producing, but nothing is waiting at the station, any ideas?
02:20:50  <Sacro> Tuzlo: has anything visited the station to pickup?
02:20:54  <Gonozal_VIII> send a vehicle there that can transport the produced stuff
02:21:01  <Tuzlo> oh yeah
02:22:49  <Tuzlo> bout  million dollars of oil delivered, no goods made, and a goods train sittin there waitin
02:23:22  <Gonozal_VIII> same station/does the goods station accept oil?
02:23:44  <Tuzlo> its got an oil refinery alongside it
02:23:55  <Gonozal_VIII> in range?
02:24:04  <Tuzlo> adjacent
02:24:18  <Tuzlo> so, in range, hell yeah
02:24:24  <Gonozal_VIII> sure that it is a goods train?
02:24:35  <Tuzlo> wanna look at the saved game?
02:24:41  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
02:24:46  <Tuzlo> kk, gimme a sec
02:25:52  <Tuzlo>
02:26:00  <Sacro> Tuzlo: which version are you running?
02:26:07  <Tuzlo> 0.5.0 rc1
02:26:08  * Sacro bets £1M on 0.4.7
02:26:10  <Sacro> :o
02:26:14  <Tuzlo> haha
02:26:17  <Tuzlo> :P
02:26:18  <Tuzlo> brb
02:26:18  <Sacro> Tuzlo: get the latest version and test again
02:26:20  <Sacro> then file a bug
02:26:37  <Gonozal_VIII> The requested URL /nogoods.sav was not found on this server.
02:29:46  <Gonozal_VIII> can't load the savegame
02:29:54  <Tuzlo> sec
02:30:17  <Tuzlo> would help if i copied it there
02:30:24  <Tuzlo> tgry now
02:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
02:30:35  <Gonozal_VIII> works
02:32:02  <Tuzlo> station in question is flarwood docks
02:34:09  <Tuzlo> ????
02:35:28  <Gonozal_VIII> they don't load...
02:35:39  <Gonozal_VIII> what's that (x5) thing?
02:36:24  <Tuzlo> no friggin idea
02:36:36  <Tuzlo> I think its the grf models im usin
02:36:45  <Gonozal_VIII> capacity: 32 crates of goods (x5)
02:39:14  <orudge> The Win32 zip download of RC2 is corrupt, btw, Darkvater, or whoever released it
02:40:08  <Gonozal_VIII> they seem to ignore the full load order... after i removed that order and added it again, they try to load but there are still no goods appearing
02:41:16  <Athorium> RC2 add something interesting?
02:41:16  <orudge> and SourceForge is being utter tripe, as usual
02:41:18  <Gonozal_VIII> and your network jammed big time after i started all the trains.. deadlock
02:42:47  <Tuzlo> yeah, you gotta start them one by one, theres that many
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02:53:34  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7687 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (bridge_cmd.c train_cmd.c):
02:53:34  <CIA-1> [cbh] - Fix: trains can now enter the bridge from side. They still can't leave
02:53:34  <CIA-1> it from side (pathfinder will need to be invoked when the other ramp is
02:53:34  <CIA-1> entered). Also the code is not very clear and needs review. It is more proof of
02:53:34  <CIA-1> concept than final solution. I hope that somebody smarter (Celestar) can do it
02:53:36  <CIA-1> better.
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03:24:04  <Lakie> Hello, anyone around to help me?
03:24:39  <Gonozal_VIII> with what?
03:25:30  <Sacro> Lakie!
03:26:59  <Lakie> Ok, I've compiled RC2 on Suse Linux 10.2 and I was wondering how do I get it to make the icons and registor the program with the Operating System? :)
03:27:35  <Sacro> put the binary somewhere in your path
03:27:38  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- windows user
03:27:42  <Tuzlo> make the icon yourself in the desktop environment
03:27:46  <Sacro> i think the data files go into /usr/share/openttd
03:29:53  <Lakie> Isn't that only if you used make inall INSTALL:=1 ?
03:29:58  <Lakie> install*
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03:37:09  <Lakie> Gonozal_VIII: windows is much simplier, thankfully...
03:37:25  <Gonozal_VIII> yes...
03:37:50  <Gonozal_VIII> but compiling with windows sucks
03:38:29  <Lakie> Yeah, well
03:38:38  <Lakie> With Windows I just download the precompiled binaries
03:38:40  <Lakie> :)
03:39:21  <Gonozal_VIII> true... but no patch applying and such then
03:47:38  <Lakie> In  makefile, can I use things like $prefix in the lines?
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03:48:07  <Lakie> eg. Customstuff=$Prefix/local/share/openttd/lang
03:48:08  <Lakie> ?
03:49:38  * Lakie waits for it to explode
03:49:44  <Sacro> Lakie: i think you can in]#
03:50:03  <Lakie> makefile.config?
03:50:16  <Sacro> yeah
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04:03:40  <Smoovious> how many engines can you have before it stops making a difference?
04:03:53  <mattt_> 82
04:03:53  <Gonozal_VIII> 100
04:03:59  <mattt_> O.o
04:04:05  <Smoovious> hmm... I'll just split the difference
04:04:07  <Smoovious> 91 it is
04:04:13  <Smoovious> gonna need longer stations tho
04:04:43  <Gonozal_VIII> max engines = 100, with realistic acceleration, everyone makes a difference...
04:04:55  <Smoovious> oh ok...
04:05:04  <mattt_> heh
04:05:07  <mattt_> like really long stations
04:05:21  <Smoovious> maybe it was with that ttdpatch (or some other patch I tried that didn't work too well) which was making me think 4
04:05:25  <Gonozal_VIII> i like 10 engines 40 cars... so 25 tile stations
04:05:31  <Smoovious> well, I'm on a 2kx2k map so I could do it
04:05:39  <mattt_> :O
04:06:24  <Smoovious> will try to keep it below10 tho. :) I can fit 30-car consists before the tail end sticks out
04:06:57  <Tuzlo> do you benefit by putting more than one engine on a train?
04:07:02  <Tuzlo> in real life ya do
04:07:07  <Smoovious> in the game too
04:07:07  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
04:07:11  <Tuzlo> how much
04:07:12  <Tuzlo> ?
04:07:31  <Gonozal_VIII> realistic
04:07:46  <Tuzlo> well, i gotta go to bed
04:07:49  <Tuzlo> later
04:08:10  <Smoovious> had an idea for a silly choice... add one of those manual operated carts (the 2-ended lever, 2 people pumping it to go)... and you gotta have 20 of em in order to move a fully loaded car
04:08:31  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
04:08:42  <Smoovious> just for giggles
04:08:46  <Gonozal_VIII> they were not used to pull cars
04:08:51  <Smoovious> so?
04:09:04  <Gonozal_VIII> horsetrains could be fun
04:09:12  <Smoovious> I don't remember any trains that had makeup and big clown noses on the front either
04:10:01  <Gonozal_VIII> i hate toyland... hurts my eyes
04:10:12  <Smoovious> and they did pull cars from time to time... but they were those small utility cars like for carrying a half-dozen ties with you and your tools and stuff
04:10:44  <Smoovious> tho that gives me an idea for random track repairs...
04:10:55  * Smoovious tucks it away for later.
04:11:20  <Gonozal_VIII> but it would really be nice to have earlier steam and pre-steam engines, as the game date can be set pre 1920 now
04:16:39  <Gonozal_VIII> start in year 0 with wooden rails and some guys pulling a small cart over them^^
04:19:12  <Smoovious> nah... big containers being pulled by a team of slaves, with other slaves picking up the logs in the back and laying them in front
04:19:48  <Gonozal_VIII> :D
04:21:24  <Smoovious> every now and then a trojan horse gets pulled down the streets of one of the cities, and a randomizer that'll open it up and an army comes out and you lose all your stations in the cit
04:21:33  <Smoovious> y
04:21:42  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
04:22:02  <Smoovious> gonna crash...
04:22:04  * Smoovious wavies.
04:22:20  <Gonozal_VIII> did somebody click ignore signals?
04:22:58  <Smoovious> nope... getting extra sleep tonight so I can drink longer tomorrow
04:23:07  * Smoovious poofs.
04:23:19  <Gonozal_VIII> it's 5:23 here^^
04:23:47  <Gonozal_VIII> night
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05:03:39  <ln-> it's e|zH
05:09:47  <roboman> when does the airport after the city come out
05:10:40  <Gonozal_VIII> it's e|@/home
05:12:26  <Gonozal_VIII> don't know when roboman, you could either look in the wiki or start a new single player game and cheat through the time till it is available
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06:15:56  <Aloysha> *pokes channel*
06:15:58  <Aloysha> topic out of date :D
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09:27:34  <Wolf01> morning
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09:39:11  <Hadez> Good morning...
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09:53:10  <Hadez> Can anyone help me? Where can I reach MiHaMiX to bug him with updating Czech langfile in WT2? To be repeated if no answer ;-)
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09:54:33  <stillunknown> Hadez: someone said he was away on a trip yesterday
09:58:39  <Rubidium> Hadez: what do you exactly want to do?
10:01:42  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7688 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ (config.lib configure projects/generate projects/ [MakefileRewrite] -Codechange: make the scripts (d)ash-compatible.
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10:07:24  <Hadez> I want him to sync WT2Žs internal database with changes I did about month ago to SVN. KUDr commited my patch that contained many changes, mainly addition of diacritics.
10:07:32  <MiHaMiX> Hadez: hi
10:07:41  <Hadez> MiHaMiX: Hi! :-)
10:07:47  <MiHaMiX> Hadez: pm please
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10:22:37  <Darkvater> morning
10:22:52  <Darkvater> these releases take too long :
10:22:53  <Darkvater> (
10:24:10  <MiHaMiX> ?
10:24:26  <Darkvater> wwent to bed at 4am
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10:25:06  <MiHaMiX> uh
10:25:28  <MiHaMiX> I went to bed at midnight, but I'm having a strong headache now :-(
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10:30:40  <CIA-1> miham * r7689 /trunk/lang/czech.txt: [Translations] Translator manually handcrafted the czech translation to have proper accents
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10:38:07  <stillunknown> does anyone know who make the realistic acceleration that is currently in trunk?
10:38:12  <stillunknown> *made
10:39:38  <MiHaMiX> stillunknown: iirc, peter1138
10:40:05  <stillunknown> i suspected that
10:41:45  <stillunknown> any people here that know a lot about trains (in real life)
10:41:47  <stillunknown> ?
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10:44:19  <Rubidium> Bjarni
10:44:59  <Darkvater> morning
10:45:09  <Rubidium> morning Darkvater :)
10:45:19  <Darkvater> dman that crappy SF
10:45:32  <Darkvater> takles ages to spread a new version
10:45:41  <Darkvater> even more than usual...
10:46:36  <Rubidium>, maybe change the version from 10.3 to 10.3.9 for OSX, as Bjarni said that was the lowest supported version
10:47:04  *** Darkvater changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC2 out! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
10:47:07  <Rubidium> and ofcourse the server list rc1 -> rc2
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10:58:16  <lolman> Morning :)
10:58:21  <Bjarni> morning
10:58:47  <Bjarni> is the net unusual slow today or is it just a problem for me?
10:59:18  <lolman> It's always been slow for me since my dad discovered bittorrent :(
10:59:24  <Bjarni> lol
11:00:07  <lolman> Instead of the 1200KB/s I know I can get I pull 250KB/s
11:00:09  <lolman> :(
11:00:21  <Bjarni> make him use a decent torrent client. Some of them can automatically throttle themselves down when they notice bandwidth issue in order to prevent issues like that
11:00:40  <lolman> He won't
11:01:15  <lolman> He's so stuck in his ideas he won't change
11:01:41  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7690 /website/includes/ - [Website] Update the latest official version to 0.5.0-RC2
11:01:51  <stillunknown> Bjarni: do you know "a lot" about trains?
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11:02:23  <Bjarni> I didn't say stopping him from doing whatever he is doing, only that it should temporally slow down automatically whenever a human tries to do something on the net, that needs low ping time and/or bandwidth
11:02:24  <Darkvater>
11:02:26  <Darkvater> he lol
11:02:28  <Bjarni> stillunknown: I think so
11:02:42  <Darkvater> Unknown GRF
11:03:33  <stillunknown> i know some trains have really good brakes, but in general, can trains brake much faster than they accelerate?
11:03:58  <lolman> Bjarni, that's what I mean, he won't change anything, even something as small as a torrent client
11:04:52  <Bjarni> I would say that they can brake faster than they can accelerate. You see only the locomotive supplies traction while they can break on almost (today all) axles. So it's perfectly normal to have traction on say 4 axles while they brake on 20 or 30
11:04:55  <Rubidium> stillunknown: I hope so, as for accelerating you've got drag working against you, for braking it helps you.
11:05:02  <stillunknown> i know that
11:05:14  <stillunknown> but that would imply they are just reversing engines
11:05:29  <stillunknown> and there are friction brakes
11:05:38  <stillunknown> not to mention possible magnetic brakes
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11:07:04  <Bjarni> say you accelerate as fast as possible, you got the weight of 40-80 to prevent you from wheelslip. If you brake on 30 axles, you can in theory use 300-3000 tons to prevent jamming the wheels while braking
11:07:05  <lolman> +0-
11:07:26  <Bjarni> and then magnetic brakes come on top of that
11:07:27  <lolman>  Hmm
11:07:57  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7691 /branches/MiniIN/ (93 files in 11 dirs):
11:07:57  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Sync: with trunk r7511:r7536.
11:07:57  <CIA-1> [MiniIN] -Sync: with branches/0.5 r7536:7585, i.e. MiniIN is against 0.5.0-RC2.
11:08:02  <stillunknown> so a fast brake mode with 3 times the force of the engines is not unrealistic?
11:08:19  <Bjarni> trains can brake so fast that people fall over, but that's a really rare event when it comes to accelerating
11:08:42  <Bjarni> hmm
11:09:11  <Bjarni> let's just say 3 times to keep it simple and non-CPU intensive
11:09:21  <Wolf01> if a train is multiheaded it should continue at low speed
11:09:23  <stillunknown> i know it needs refinement in the future, based on train length, engine to wagon ratio
11:09:38  <Bjarni> in real life it depends on train length, number of wagons and so on
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11:10:00  <Wolf01> 'lo MeusH
11:10:04  <MeusH> hey
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11:10:13  <Bjarni> also your tracks and wheels would not agree to maximum braking as a regular thing
11:11:07  <Bjarni> you know, if you pull the emergency brake (don't do that without proper reason), the train will brake so fast that you risk tearing metal off the wheels
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11:11:37  <stillunknown> i know, the fast_brake mode is only used when 33% over maximum speed
11:12:55  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7692 /trunk/ (newgrf_config.c newgrf_config.h players.c): -Fix: OpenTTD didn't compile without network enabled (newgrf sync code)
11:13:03  <Bjarni> I think I know what you mean, but it came out wrong
11:13:30  <michi_cc> Darkvater: MD5: 642ef01ade8754847e2801ed2b54e293
11:14:02  <Bjarni> certain brake systems aren't really useful when moving slower than a certain speed
11:14:18  <Bjarni> for each train, it's a % of the maximum speed, but it's not a fixed % for all trains
11:14:28  <Darkvater> michi_cc: thx
11:14:58  <Bjarni> it's the same speed for trains with a maximum of 100 and 120 and 180, so they will have 3 different % of max speed to hit that limit
11:17:23  <stillunknown> i know it's very complex, but for the moment i need something simpler
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11:25:14  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7693 /trunk/strgen/strgen.c: -Codechange (r7540): print a newline after the summary (strgen).
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11:25:56  <Wolf01> mmmm i need custombridgeheads.. i made a mistake with a city and the only way is to use cbh
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11:28:45  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7694 /branches/0.5/known-bugs.txt: -Update known-bugs file.
11:32:22  <stillunknown> is 0x00 the mask of normal track?
11:32:45  <Rubidium> what do you mean by normal?
11:33:00  <stillunknown> no bridge, no tunnel, no depot
11:33:22  <Rubidium> from which variable
11:33:22  <stillunknown> 0x40 is tunnel/bridge, 0x80 is depot
11:34:16  <Rubidium> then I would say: (var & (0x40 | 0x80)) == 0
11:34:42  <stillunknown> i want to assign a value for the next tile that is consistent with the rest of the game
11:34:50  <Rubidium> is a 'normal' rail tile (but that's deduced from the information you gave me)
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11:35:23  <blathijs> Can somebody add my .deb files to the SF project?
11:35:49  <blathijs> 33de37b9ac1e4bfd6390c6dd20225b9a  openttd-0.5.0-RC2-amd64.deb
11:35:50  <blathijs> 5a1b30385f636545b2d347c11406ad48  openttd-0.5.0-RC2-i386.deb
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11:36:06  <blathijs> And add them to the download page too? I'm outta time for that
11:36:11  <blathijs> Bjarni: Darkvater: ^^
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11:36:16  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7695 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): - Forward-port the release-changes from the 0.5 branch back to trunk. This ensures an updated changelog, readme, et.
11:36:36  <Darkvater> blathijs: will do
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11:39:29  <blathijs> Darkvater: thanks
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11:40:11  <Darkvater> blathijs: will you test for me if the md5sums are correct? Same for michi_cc ?
11:40:12  <stillunknown> is there a reason why functions like VehicleEnter_TunnelBridge are never called anywere?
11:40:18  <Darkvater> SF is acting up...
11:42:32  <michi_cc> Darkvater: file's okay
11:43:00  <CIA-1> miham * r7696 /trunk/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
11:43:00  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 12:41:03
11:43:00  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 5 fixed by groupsky (5)
11:43:00  <CIA-1> dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
11:43:00  <CIA-1> estonian - 31 fixed, 28 deleted, 26 changed by kristjans (85)
11:43:02  <CIA-1> french - 9 changed by glx (9)
11:43:02  <CIA-1> polish - 1 fixed by meush (1)
11:44:57  <Wolf01> ia a my impression or towns do not more propagate after bridges?
11:46:05  <stillunknown> you mean they grow faster?
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11:46:21  <Wolf01> i mean they don't grow
11:46:44  <Wolf01> or at least not in that direction as they should
11:47:53  <stillunknown> the town build algoritm for building maps is the same as for growth, and last time i checked (made a townbuildnoroads patch) they do grow
11:48:40  <Wolf01> i must go lunch, after that i'll made a screenshot
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11:52:14  <Wolf01|AWAY> here is it
11:54:50  <Darkvater> michi_cc: how do you know? I can't even download it from SF :)
11:55:27  <Born_Acorn> That big yellow bridge would definately benefit from custombridgeheads. :p
11:55:31  <michi_cc> luck :) tried a few mirrors till I found one which already has it
11:55:43  <Darkvater> :)
11:56:11  <Bjarni> Wolf01|AWAY: so what did you want to do in this screenshot?
11:56:54  <Wolf01|AWAY> i want the city grow in the other side of the railway
11:56:59  <Bjarni> ahh
11:57:23  <Wolf01|AWAY> i had no problems until now
11:57:26  <Bjarni> hmm
11:57:39  <Wolf01|AWAY> today seem that the city don't grow after bridges
11:57:48  <Bjarni> trunk?
11:57:58  <Rubidium> ofcourse
11:57:59  <Wolf01|AWAY> yeah
11:58:10  <Rubidium> Bjarni: that you should have seen :)
11:58:24  <Rubidium> Wolf01|AWAY: do you compile yourself?
11:58:32  <Wolf01|AWAY> no, yesterday nightly
11:58:34  <Bjarni> ahh, yeah
11:59:03  <Rubidium> does it grow in the nightly of the 27th?
11:59:15  <Wolf01|AWAY> here is the savegame
11:59:18  <Wolf01|AWAY> 7MB
11:59:21  <Rubidium> or rather, since which nightly doesn't it work anymore?
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11:59:47  <Wolf01|AWAY> with the nightly of 29 worked
12:00:08  <Wolf01|AWAY> *29th
12:01:27  <Wolf01|AWAY> mmm i have some newgrfs active, if you can't load the game here is the cfg:
12:01:31  <Rubidium> grr, should have saved my test scenario :)
12:01:51  <Maedhros> misc_gui.c:1188: error: size of array 'a' is negative o_O
12:02:03  <Rubidium> Maedhros have a 64 bits computer too :)
12:02:06  <Rubidium> *has
12:02:07  <Wolf01|AWAY> ok, now i must really go lunch
12:02:39  <Maedhros> i do indeed :)
12:03:40  <Darkvater> it won't be solved till next year I'm afraid
12:03:54  <Rubidium> window.h, increase value of WINDOW_CUSTOM_SIZE to something bigger (105 is known to work I think)
12:03:57  <Darkvater> you can of course hack it ( Maedhros increase WINDOW_CUSTOM_SIZE to 110)
12:04:18  <blathijs> stillunknown: functions like VehicleEnter_TunnelBridge are called as function pointers
12:04:33  <Darkvater> but I will need some thinking on the best solution for the cause of this problem (passing strings to windows that get them from somewhere else)
12:04:42  <Maedhros> Darkvater: Rubidium: ok, i'll do that for now. thanks
12:04:44  <blathijs> stillunknown: They're stored in an array indexed by tiletype, so the appropriate function for any tile can be called
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12:09:58  <stillunknown> what has a greater a penalty, storing a variable+accesing a struct once or accessing a struct 4 times?
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12:14:31  <stillunknown> blathijs: any idea what would happen if the function VehicleEnterTile is used with a tile that is not next to the current tile?
12:16:07  <stillunknown> i'm trying to get better bridge speed beheaviour by looking ahead, but i don't want to introduce a serious performance penalty
12:16:27  <stillunknown> *introduce the smallest possible penalty
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12:23:04  <Gonozal_VIII> thinking ahead: when realistic deceleration for the trains works, there could either be a optional thing, that trains crash, when they don't have enough space to brake or they slam in the brakes like they used to and you get a message "x people got hurt due to emergency brake" and reliability of that train goes down some % until next servicing
12:26:01  <stillunknown> i'm just working on bridge speed now, i need that in a good state and committed, because too much change is bad
12:26:28  <Gonozal_VIII> i know, my thoughts just wandered around a bit
12:27:13  <stillunknown> i hooked the predictor into the enter new tile function, this is probably the best possible
12:28:55  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7697 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (bridge_cmd.c train_cmd.c): [cbh] - Cleanup of r7687 changes
12:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i should check out the cbh some time...
12:33:05  <stillunknown> is there a function that can determine what the next tile is based on the current one (rail track)?
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12:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> the code that determines if a platform ends uses such functionality
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12:36:55  <KUDr> stillunknown: how can tile be based on another one?
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12:37:53  <stillunknown> assuming that you only look at track without branches, any track has two neighbours
12:37:54  <KUDr> stillunknown: GetTileTrackStatus() tells you what tracks are available on tile
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12:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> you might want to look at the function VehicleEnter_Station in station_cmd.c
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12:38:53  <KUDr> you can examine result of GetTileTrackStatus()
12:39:09  <KUDr> there are several APIs for that
12:39:23  <MVV> Happy New Year !!!
12:39:30  <KUDr> look at any pathfinder
12:40:00  <blathijs> Darkvater: No time, could you check them?
12:40:05  <blathijs> I'm off
12:40:31  <stillunknown> KUDr: i was looking at the stuff in rail.h and noticed there were a lot of them :-)
12:40:53  <KUDr> yes, following track is not so easy
12:41:05  <KUDr> if it is what you are looking for
12:41:42  <stillunknown> i'm trying to get a reliable look forward of at least 1 tile, maybe more if cpu load is acceptable
12:41:46  <KUDr> you can use my track follower engine for some cases, but it depends what you want to do
12:42:09  <KUDr> where?
12:42:17  <KUDr> in some pathfinder?
12:42:22  <KUDr> or accelerator?
12:42:37  <stillunknown> i'm trying to make smoother bridge speed
12:42:54  <KUDr> so in accelerator?
12:43:11  <KUDr> you have the vehicle pointer there i guess
12:43:13  <stillunknown> so every time a new cell is entered, it looks forwards to the next one
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12:43:18  <stillunknown> yes
12:43:32  <KUDr> ok, then you can use my follower
12:43:44  <stillunknown> is it expensive to use?
12:43:49  <KUDr> it is the simplest way
12:43:54  <KUDr> no
12:44:03  <KUDr> it is used heavily in yapf
12:44:13  <KUDr> and yapf is the fastest pathfinder
12:44:17  <stillunknown> were is the api?
12:44:25  <KUDr> wait..
12:45:15  <KUDr> bool FollowTrackRail     (FollowTrack_t *This, TileIndex old_tile, Trackdir old_td);
12:45:22  <KUDr> in yapf.h
12:45:37  <KUDr> and bool FollowTrackRailNo90 (FollowTrack_t *This, TileIndex old_tile, Trackdir old_td);
12:45:54  <KUDr> for 90 deg. turns disabled
12:46:47  <KUDr> 1. you allocate FollowTrack_t on stack (local variable)
12:46:56  <KUDr> 2. call void FollowTrackInit(FollowTrack_t *This, const Vehicle* v);
12:47:17  <KUDr> 3. call FollowTrackRail or FollowTrackRailNo90
12:47:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i would drop support for 90° turns... they are ugly
12:48:06  <KUDr> 4. check the return value (true means that there is some way)
12:48:09  <KUDr> and then you examine the FollowTrack_t for the result
12:48:28  <KUDr> it can't be simpler
12:49:10  <stillunknown> it's a pointer that behaves like an array?
12:49:22  <stillunknown> with the [0] element is the next track?
12:49:53  <KUDr> it is structure
12:49:59  <KUDr> one instance only
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12:50:10  <KUDr> and you give the API its pointer
12:50:27  <KUDr> so yes, like an array with one item only
12:51:15  <stillunknown> i can just repeat the last function N times, until have as many as i need?
12:51:36  <KUDr> you need to examine m_new_td_bits
12:51:59  <KUDr> there can be more trackdirs available
12:52:17  <KUDr> you can choose one of them and do it again
12:52:36  <KUDr> it can always branch
12:52:54  <Rubidium> Wolf01: that bug of yours is introduces in r7573, so it wasn't working since the nightly of the 27th
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12:53:17  <KUDr> so you need to be able to select the proper trackdir (or all of them seaparatelly) or give up
12:54:36  <Wolf01> mmm maybe i was playing with my custom build, so i didn't noticed
12:55:07  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't the pathfinder do that anyways? does that have to be done twice?
12:55:30  <stillunknown> but this is not the actual pathfinder
12:55:34  <Wolf01> i found another bug instead, when founding a new industry the gui is not refreshed, so happen that half of the price string is still there
12:55:38  <stillunknown> so all options are possible
12:56:07  <Gonozal_VIII> pathfinder could probably store the next tiles somewhere
12:56:29  <stillunknown> but that would pathfinder dependent
12:57:05  <stillunknown> KUDr: is the path for a train stored when using YAPF?
12:57:26  <Rubidium> Wolf01: screenshot?
12:57:37  <KUDr> not permanently - only available upon return from pathfinder
12:57:39  <Wolf01> mmm i have no funds at the moment
12:58:08  <Wolf01> but is like when a string is partially outside of the gui
12:58:30  <KUDr> stillunknown: so you can examine the path before return from YAPF or NPF and set something to the vehicle
12:58:32  <Gonozal_VIII> little change in pathfinder to store it so that it can be accessed..
12:58:51  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: stupid idea
12:58:58  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- stupid guy
12:59:14  <KUDr> there can be 1000 trains and the path is sometimes very long
12:59:19  <stillunknown> KUDr: any hint were to look?
12:59:21  <Rubidium> Wolf01: I cannot reproduce, so I don't know where to look
12:59:21  <KUDr> so much memory
12:59:33  <KUDr> stillunknown: for what?
12:59:52  <stillunknown> the point i can intercept pathfinder data
13:00:17  <KUDr> i can tell you it for yapd
13:00:19  <KUDr> f
13:01:00  <KUDr> 	FORCEINLINE Trackdir ChooseRailTrack(Vehicle *v, TileIndex tile, DiagDirection enterdir, TrackdirBits trackdirs, bool *path_not_found)
13:01:32  <KUDr> or Trackdir YapfChooseRailTrack(Vehicle *v, TileIndex tile, DiagDirection enterdir, TrackdirBits trackdirs, bool *path_not_found)
13:01:57  <KUDr> both in yapf_rail.h
13:02:24  <KUDr> but i would recommend to begin with NPF
13:02:30  <KUDr> it is bit simpler
13:02:49  <stillunknown> what are .hpp files?
13:03:01  <KUDr> c++ headers
13:03:07  <KUDr> to see difference
13:03:20  <KUDr> that you can't include them from c files
13:03:30  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm ~3 byte for each tile, 1000 trains, probably 100 tiles per train... would be about 300kb
13:03:39  <MeusH> Darkvater!
13:03:47  <MeusH> new nonstop!
13:03:53  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: more than 3
13:04:12  <Gonozal_VIII> 11 bit for x, 11 bit for y, not?
13:04:42  <KUDr> and trackdir
13:04:45  <MeusH> Darkvater:
13:05:11  <Gonozal_VIII> remaining 2 bits..
13:05:29  <KUDr> need 4
13:06:09  <KUDr> who will pay new CPU for such useless compression done in every pathfind
13:07:01  <Gonozal_VIII> all kinds of pathrelated things could be done with those data...
13:07:17  <KUDr> true
13:07:31  <KUDr> maybe in the future we will do such thing
13:07:54  <KUDr> but it need more usage and to save CPU elsewhere
13:08:05  <KUDr> not only smoother braking
13:08:58  <Rubidium> Darkvater: you broke the genworld GUI by r7637. To reproduce: start OTTD, click newgame, click on the date button (between the ^ and v). Now the generation seed becomes garbage.
13:10:37  <BFM> (New year just ticked over in Sydney ^_^)
13:10:50  <KUDr> wow!
13:11:03  <Gonozal_VIII> 10 hours to go here
13:11:27  <stillunknown> KUDr: during pathfinding do you store how many track sections are already passed when looking for a path?
13:11:45  <KUDr> yes, many many
13:11:52  <KUDr> can be 100000
13:12:03  <KUDr> like spider
13:12:12  <KUDr> each possible branch
13:12:28  <Gonozal_VIII> wow
13:12:32  <KUDr> so you need to walk thru it
13:13:00  <KUDr> there is already this walking:
13:13:01  <KUDr> 			Node* pPrev = NULL;
13:13:01  <KUDr> 			while (pNode->m_parent != NULL) {
13:13:01  <KUDr> 				pPrev = pNode;
13:13:01  <KUDr> 				pNode = pNode->m_parent;
13:13:02  <KUDr> 			}
13:13:11  <KUDr> you can intercept it here
13:13:38  <KUDr> it walks back from the destination to the origin to find the first choice
13:13:52  <KUDr> and the trackdir selected on this choice
13:14:53  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm is the choosen path not stored? so does it look through all possibilities again on the next junction?
13:15:00  <stillunknown> any way i can select only the last three steps without storing everything and picking the last three?
13:15:19  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: yes it must be stateless
13:15:33  <KUDr> signal states can change each tick
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13:15:56  <KUDr> so new path must can be taken on next chice
13:16:02  <Gonozal_VIII> but what about tracks that go somewhere else and are not just blocked by red signals?
13:16:21  <Tuzlo> does anyone know how the "Improved Loading Algorithm" works in comparison to not using it?
13:16:31  <KUDr> this is what PF must care about too
13:16:32  <stillunknown> you need to check every path every tick
13:16:50  <stillunknown> unless you can select safe paths
13:16:54  <stillunknown> to keep
13:17:06  <KUDr> we invoke PFs only on choice
13:18:07  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't it be better to first look which paths go to the right direciton first, and look for signal state only on those paths?
13:18:15  <Gonozal_VIII> -first
13:19:05  <KUDr> Gonozal_VIII: if it would save CPU then yes
13:19:15  <KUDr> but i can't imagine how it can help
13:19:42  <stillunknown> KUDr: were is Node container defined?
13:19:47  <KUDr> only if we store all 'possible' paths from each point to each other
13:19:48  <Gonozal_VIII> something like store junctions and if a branch of the junction leads to a dead end, drop it
13:20:19  <KUDr> stillunknown: yap_node_rail.hpp (for rails)
13:20:53  <KUDr> stillunknown: but as i see it won't help you
13:21:12  <KUDr> it can skip bridges
13:21:29  <KUDr> so you must examine each tile by using the follower anyway
13:21:57  <KUDr> yapf data can only tell you how to decide on choices
13:22:17  <stillunknown> KUDr: thanks for the help
13:22:19  <KUDr> to follow only the selected path instead of all of them
13:22:30  <KUDr> hope it really helps
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13:23:07  <stillunknown> my main problem is that the pathfinder doesn't keep track of how long the path is (or does it?)
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13:23:20  <KUDr> yes
13:23:24  <KUDr> node cost
13:23:43  <Gonozal_VIII> the path between junctions doesn't have to be stored, so less memory... junctions where only one path leads to the destination don't need to be checked for signal state.. and so on..
13:24:49  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7698 /trunk/town_cmd.c: -Fix (r7573): towns did not grow beyond bridges.
13:25:40  <KUDr> stillunknown: node cost should express the distance somehow appropriatelly (min 100 points per tile) more for curves, slopes and so on
13:26:06  <stillunknown> i think i'll just try the TrackFollower first
13:26:16  <KUDr> good idea
13:26:24  <stillunknown> because it's much simpler and i can't get a perfect solution from yapf
13:26:35  <KUDr> and tell me if you'll have any problem with it
13:27:01  <KUDr> yapf offers you all data
13:27:14  <KUDr> but still need to use follower
13:27:23  <KUDr> so it is good start
13:27:44  <MeusH> Rubidium, I've found another bug (I think) in World Generation Window
13:28:19  <MeusH> when I click "Random" to get a new seed, sometimes the cursor goes under the first digit instead of the last one
13:28:37  <stillunknown> KUDr: the trackdirbits, is that a bitwise operation of all posibilities?
13:28:39  <MeusH> it is possible to overwrite the digit, and the cursor moves one place to the right
13:28:56  <MeusH> I can also move the cursor using arrow keys, but
13:29:02  <MeusH> I can move it to the left side
13:29:24  <MeusH> to the right side, I can't move any more if the cursor gets under the digit...
13:29:34  <MeusH> just take a look at it
13:29:40  <MeusH> you'll know
13:30:22  <stillunknown> KUDr: if i have 0x004 and 0x008 as possibility, what does the trackfollower give me?
13:31:34  <Rubidium> MeusH: is it me or does it happen if the new seed is shorter, as in the new is 9 digits and the old was 10 digits?
13:32:24  <MeusH> I'll check it out
13:32:35  <MeusH> good point, Rubidium, if it's true
13:32:41  <Gonozal_VIII> no
13:32:44  <Gonozal_VIII> not shorter
13:33:41  <MeusH> Rubidium, it happens also with a new number having 10 digits
13:33:47  <Gonozal_VIII> seems to be random
13:34:05  * stillunknown is away
13:34:15  <Rubidium> funky :)
13:34:34  <Gonozal_VIII> most of the time it's jumping back and forth..
13:34:50  <Gonozal_VIII> only sometimes it stays at the same position twice
13:35:50  <MeusH> Rubidium, shall I submit it to Flyspray?
13:36:02  <MeusH> or your mind is enough? :)
13:36:50  <Rubidium> well, I'm looking at it right now :)
13:38:03  <Gonozal_VIII> never noticed that because i never change that seed...
13:38:45  <MeusH> me too, but I wanted to reproduce  "Darkvater: you broke the genworld GUI by r7637. To reproduce: start OTTD, click newgame, click on the date button (between the ^ and v). Now the generation seed becomes garbage."
13:39:01  <MeusH> I couldn't reproduce that but at least I found a bug
13:39:55  <Darkvater> MeusH: looking at at atm
13:40:12  <MeusH> Darkvater, the new_nonstop one?
13:40:35  <Darkvater> no, the genworld thing
13:49:16  <Rubidium> tb->length = buf - tb->buf - 1 <- not quite the way to determine the length of a UTF8 encoded string :)
13:49:47  <Darkvater> hmm I didn't break the thing I think...
13:50:02  <Darkvater> genworld_gui uses both querystr_d AND def_d
13:50:15  <Darkvater> Rubidium: textbuf is utf8-agonistic
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13:50:33  <Darkvater> it counts number of byte-characters
13:50:54  <Darkvater> now the question is...why did this work before that commit
13:51:03  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7637
13:51:11  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7637 /trunk/ (18 files) (2006-12-30 01:17:53 UTC)
13:51:13  <_42_> -Codechange: Change ShowQueryString to use a window pointer as a parent. If the
13:51:15  <_42_>  query has no parent (eg give money, rename waypoint), the global function
13:51:17  <_42_>  HandleOnEditText is used.
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13:51:50  <Rubidium> because you use a global variable to store the to be editted text in?
13:51:56  <Darkvater> Rubidium: do you see? genworld_gui.c:347 (def_d) and querystr_d on line 319
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13:52:07  <Awenger_KJ> Hello
13:52:12  <Darkvater> Rubidium: that overwrites querystr_d->text
13:52:20  <Awenger_KJ> does the ttd department have a helpchannel?
13:52:28  <MeusH> hello Awenger_KJ
13:52:39  <Darkvater> how the hell could this ever work???
13:52:39  <Awenger_KJ> Hi
13:52:51  <MeusH> you want help about TTD, don't you?
13:52:55  <Darkvater> or has it ever worked?
13:53:09  <Awenger_KJ> It's quite spicifick
13:53:12  <Rubidium> it has worked :)
13:53:23  <Darkvater> Rubidium: but do you see what I mean?
13:53:28  <Rubidium> yeah
13:53:45  * Darkvater reverts to 7636
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13:56:38  <Darkvater> HA
13:56:42  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I know why it worked
13:56:45  <Rubidium> anyway, what about <- it fixes the swapping/jumping caret problem MeusH found
13:57:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I changed querystr_d. It had window_class, window_number as parameters, now it is only Window*.
13:57:48  <Darkvater> Rubidium: when the def_d overwrote w->custom it overwrote window_number, or some other value and not te text parameter
13:57:58  <Darkvater> so has always been broken
13:58:28  <Rubidium> ah, it accidentally worked :)
13:58:54  <Darkvater> yep, it overwrite wnd_num
13:58:59  <Darkvater> with START_DATE_QUERY
13:59:05  <Darkvater> but that was already 0 and START_DATE_QUERY is also 0
13:59:21  <Darkvater> :)
13:59:42  <Darkvater> jumping caret?
13:59:59  <Rubidium> just hit the randomise a few times :)
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14:00:36  <Rubidium> in the genworld gui
14:02:58  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I am not sure that is a correct fix
14:03:11  <Darkvater> length is char-size, not utf8-composite char
14:04:03  <Darkvater> if you change that maxlength would screw up and you'd get all kinds of errors
14:04:06  <Rubidium> ah, ok, but max-length is utf8 char size, right?
14:04:16  <Darkvater> no
14:04:21  <Darkvater> it's all char-based
14:04:28  <Darkvater> eg char[50];
14:04:31  <Rubidium> hmm
14:04:31  <Darkvater> maxlength = 50
14:04:45  <Darkvater> the caret is drawn based on width
14:04:49  <Darkvater> at least it should be
14:06:14  <Darkvater> we should write to the head of each wndproc what w->custom casts it uses or something
14:07:30  <Rubidium> anyway, using tb->length in the loop of that function is wrong
14:07:43  <Darkvater> I think either someone was extremely sloppy, or had a feeling things could go wrong
14:07:45  <Rubidium> as it is the length of the previous string
14:07:51  <Darkvater> genworld_gui.c:318
14:07:51  <Darkvater> 			snprintf(_edit_str_buf, lengthof(_edit_str_buf), "%u", _patches_newgame.generation_seed);
14:07:54  <Darkvater> should be
14:08:25  <Darkvater> snprintf(WP(w, querystr_d).text, WP(w, querystr_d).text.maxlength, ...
14:09:26  <Darkvater> Rubidium: no, that function is correct
14:09:27  <Darkvater> only
14:09:34  <Darkvater> hmm
14:09:37  <Darkvater> tb->caretpos = tb->length; << this
14:09:58  <Darkvater> I think caretpos is used somewhere else as utf8-composite offset
14:10:23  <Rubidium> old: 0, buf: 135933011, tb->buf: 135933000, new: 10
14:10:23  <Rubidium> old: 10, buf: 135933001, tb->buf: 135933000, new: 0
14:10:44  <Darkvater> what's that?
14:10:51  <Rubidium> old = tb->length before setting it tb->length, new is after setting it
14:11:12  <CIA-1> miham * r7699 /trunk/lang/ (galician.txt german.txt):
14:11:12  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 15:10:33
14:11:12  <CIA-1> galician - 36 fixed by Condex (36)
14:11:12  <CIA-1> german - 4 fixed by chu (4)
14:11:46  <Darkvater> where?
14:11:50  <Darkvater> you lost me :O
14:12:11  <Rubidium> in UpdateTextBufferSize, misc_gui.c around line 950
14:12:35  <KUDr> [14:26:34] <stillunknown> KUDr: the trackdirbits, is that a bitwise operation of all posibilities? << go PM
14:12:51  <Darkvater> it should be ok since both length and caretpos are char positions
14:13:03  <Rubidium> old is the value before line 950, new is the value after line 950
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14:13:36  <Rubidium> *value of tb->length
14:13:55  <Darkvater> hmm I see it's set to 0
14:14:10  <Darkvater> you would need
14:14:11  <Darkvater> not
14:14:14  <Darkvater> tb->length++l
14:14:16  <Darkvater> but
14:14:38  <Darkvater> tb->length += Utf8CharLen
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14:16:00  <Rubidium> so, like
14:16:56  <Darkvater> hmm no wait I think I got it
14:18:36  <Darkvater> Rubidium: ok, do nothing, just tb->width = tb->length = 0;
14:18:37  <Darkvater> and it works
14:19:07  <Darkvater> because length was not reset, the for loop was not run (in the original code)
14:19:16  <Darkvater> the 'buf - tb->buf - 1;' is correct
14:19:43  <Rubidium> but then the tb->length might become longer than tb->maxlength
14:20:12  <Darkvater> Rubidium: if you are comittting, can you comment querystr_d to say it uses chars not utf8-bytes
14:20:15  <Darkvater> he, you're right
14:20:25  <Darkvater> that's why it wasn't reset ;p
14:20:35  <Darkvater> hmm no
14:20:39  <Darkvater> you're not right
14:20:52  <Darkvater> wait..
14:20:54  <Darkvater> you are
14:20:55  <Darkvater> hmm
14:23:15  <Darkvater> yes you are right Rubidium :)
14:23:16  <Darkvater> he
14:23:36  <Darkvater> << with this one
14:24:16  <Darkvater> I have no solution for the date thing except for misusing querystr_d->caption or something for the query box :s
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14:26:27  <Smoovious> ya know, there was a bug in the early version of TTD... Steel Mills accepted passengers, and after a while, you had some houses going up around the steel mill... the bug got 'fixed' in later versions, but I always thought it should have stayed in. Maybe not in that form, but if you get enough industries with a fraction of passengers together being served by the same station, and you started passenger service,
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14:26:37  <Smoovious> you should get some development around it
14:26:56  <Darkvater> I don't think houses ever got up around a steel mill
14:27:11  <Darkvater> except if a town were nearby and started expanding there
14:27:20  <Darkvater> which is simply a coincidence then
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14:27:52  <Smoovious> well, there had to be a road going through, they went up by a truck route I had... it wasn't a coincidence tho... it was fairly far away from the nearest city... clustered around the mill
14:28:28  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:28:52  <Smoovious> after all, we got lots of rural habitation around.. why should the cities and towns get all the people?
14:29:39  <Rubidium> Darkvater: the comments you mentioned as in the updated swapping_caret diff?
14:30:14  <Darkvater> excellent
14:30:17  * Darkvater rubs hands
14:30:39  <Darkvater> the funny thing is
14:30:55  <Darkvater> if
14:30:56  <Darkvater> 15:07 <@Darkvater> IIIsnprintf(_edit_str_buf, lengthof(_edit_str_buf), "%u", _patches_newgame.generation_seed);
14:30:59  <Darkvater> 15:07 <@Darkvater> should be
14:31:02  <Darkvater> 15:08 <@Darkvater> snprintf(WP(w, querystr_d).text, WP(w, querystr_d).text.maxlength, ...
14:31:10  <Smoovious> I think what they were originally intending was to have population growth, try to cluster around where you're getting a lot of passenger traffic, which had a side effect... and instead of smoothing out the side effect and keeping it, they abandoned it
14:31:17  <Darkvater> if this were used openttd would've crashed immediately and you would've known something was wrong
14:31:21  <Darkvater> eh (text.buf)
14:31:39  <Darkvater> Smoovious: s/they/he/gi ;)
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14:32:11  <Smoovious> I still have the demo it happened in... I'll try to dig it up, and see if I can get a screenshot showing what I meant
14:32:18  <Smoovious> ?
14:32:27  <Smoovious> (I'm a little rusty on my replace strings)
14:32:34  <Darkvater> ttd was written single-handedly by CS
14:32:54  * Smoovious shrugs.
14:33:39  <Noldo> Smoovious: how relevant is a single house out there for the big picture if it's not even counted in some towns population?
14:33:48  <Smoovious> I tend to still use 'they' anyways... cuz I'm sure he had a few people helping him to test things out, even if he handled all the code himself... (much like ludde coding µT solo while the rest of us helped in a support fasion)
14:34:14  <Darkvater> all hail lord ludde!
14:34:16  <Smoovious> Noldo... a single house? maybe not that big a deal... but a few?
14:34:24  <Darkvater> eh, what who, where? *grin*
14:34:28  <Smoovious> and who cares if it is counted in a town's population
14:34:47  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7700 /trunk/ (misc_gui.c window.h): -Fix (r7182): the caret 'randomly' jumped back and forth when getting a new randomised seed in the Generation World GUI.
14:34:53  <Rubidium> hmm, already at r7700, that went fast :)
14:34:55  <Smoovious> I'm thinking more of a realism factor here... lots of people like to live close to work, and if that work is way out in the boonies, they'll find a spot and build there
14:35:14  <Noldo> true
14:35:48  <Smoovious> ya just get tired going from city to city all the time...
14:35:51  <Noldo> maybe some luxurios villa on the top of a hill :)
14:36:12  <Noldo> but I think they still should logically belong so some city
14:36:20  <Smoovious> (this came up cuz I got my HQ out in the middle of nowhere, and I'm running passengers to and from it
14:36:26  <Smoovious> why?
14:36:52  <Smoovious> part of the appeal of living in the boonies is not being a part of a city
14:37:38  <Darkvater> hmm
14:37:51  <Noldo> I mean that every house should be on some local authoritys area
14:37:52  <Smoovious> well, in any event, I'll throw that on my things-to-try-out list when I get back up to speed and start to try coding stuff again
14:37:56  <Darkvater> I retract my line
14:37:58  <Smoovious> again... Wny?
14:38:25  <Darkvater> it would actually have been bad to use snprintf(WP(w, querystr_d).text.buf, WP(w, querystr_d).text.maxlength, "%u", _patches_newgame.generation_seed); because then you would write to some random memory location and everything would appear to work fine :S
14:38:30  <Noldo> if they don't you could just destroy them and it would make no difference
14:38:44  <Smoovious> Noldo... I don't see that as a problem
14:39:05  <Smoovious> happens all the time in boonie areas
14:39:28  <Noldo> so it's just realism over gameplay thing?
14:39:29  <Smoovious> and since the population density is so low... they don't really have any power to fight eminent domain, and don't make much noise...
14:39:42  <Smoovious> no, it is a realism combined with gameplay
14:39:54  <Smoovious> I don't see why one has to be sacrificed for the other
14:40:12  <Noldo> enlighten me about the effect on gameplay?
14:41:08  <Smoovious> well... industries don't function without people to run them... and if you can make a few extra bucks by running a bus out there from time to time to drop off some people, and pick a few back up, and you think it is worth it, why not...
14:41:18  <Smoovious> I don't see a negative
14:41:28  <Rubidium> Darkvater: if I remember correctly the offending line got stolen from network_gui.c
14:41:45  <Smoovious> if you get a few scattered houses here and there around an industry... fine by me
14:41:53  <Darkvater> that is not an excuse :)
14:42:18  <Smoovious> but you have to serve the industry passengers... to the point where the industry has more people than it needs to operate or something...
14:42:25  <Smoovious> shouldn't be too easy...
14:42:51  <CIA-1> miham * r7701 /trunk/lang/esperanto.txt:
14:42:51  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 15:42:20
14:42:51  <CIA-1> esperanto - 96 fixed by LaPingvino (96)
14:42:55  <Rubidium> Darkvater: not really no
14:43:06  <Noldo> industries needing passangers is a separate issue
14:43:06  <Smoovious> could even consider them as being on company property too if you wish...
14:43:21  <Smoovious> don't think it is that seperate
14:43:43  <Smoovious> I have something in mind already, that was already working in an early demo version of the original TTD...
14:43:54  <Smoovious> and a behavior I've missed for a long time
14:44:54  <Noldo> so the industries would need employees and the employees would live so near the industry that they would need no transport
14:45:04  <Noldo> only to town or somewhere else from time to time
14:45:08  <Smoovious> they still gotta go to the city to shop
14:45:10  <Smoovious> :D
14:46:22  <Noldo> the number of passangers that would generate is insignificant
14:46:31  <Sacro> :o since when couldnt you split up a DMU
14:46:35  <Smoovious> I'm not talking about building up a whole urban area near the industry to service the industry... just occasionally, if the station has delivered more than X passengers... there is a small random chance to build a house near the station
14:46:48  <Smoovious> if the station doesn't accept passengers to begin with, then it doesn't make any difference
14:46:52  <Tuzlo> ok a ship wants to take a inland path to a port, but it will never make it, will the ship learn the route, or do  you have to add way points?
14:47:12  <Smoovious> insignificant, maybe... but if someone wants to run a route there anyways... why not
14:47:23  <Smoovious> they don't all have to be high-volume runs
14:48:47  <Noldo> well, ok diversity of gameplay is a good thing I quess
14:49:28  <Smoovious> like... there is no reason why a habitation tile has to be placed in a city... it can go anywhere... only reason why they cluster in cities now is the way the city searches out a place to put more population... but no reason why the "city" has to be the only thing to build a habitation tile somewhere
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14:50:10  <Noldo> and they will be a part of the some local authority if they happen to be built on a tile that was originally part of some local authority
14:50:22  <Smoovious> I got no problem with that
14:50:56  <Smoovious> and if the tile isn't part of a local authority, I got no problem with the habitat tile not being part of one either... just means if you bulldoze it, the owners have nobody to complain to
14:51:06  <Noldo> yeah
14:52:07  <Noldo> I don't know how the city populations are counted so they might be added up there too
14:52:11  <Smoovious> just kinda wanna get away from doing city clusters all the time... would be kinda nice of other clusters sprang up here and there throughout the game, fueled by industries
14:52:31  <Smoovious> they wouldn't be in the city, unless it was built on local authority property... so why would they need tobe counted?
14:52:57  <Noldo> no reason, I ment the ones that are on local authority property
14:53:24  <Smoovious> and if they are on authority property, they'll be counted as part of the city's population already... I think when it gets counted, it doesn't care about how far from the city center it is... but just looks at each record to see what local authority the tile belongs to
14:54:53  <Smoovious> I think the overall idea I have in mind is... is that stations should somehow influence how population grows, and tends to cluster around stations more than non-serviced areas
14:56:26  <Noldo> oh, coop is using newgrfs too
14:56:35  <Smoovious> also think steel mills should take coal too, but that's a different issue
14:57:14  <Noldo> :)
14:59:42  <stillunknown> coop?
15:00:13  <Noldo>
15:01:40  <hylje> oh, really?
15:01:43  <Born_Acorn> A big Chicken Coop from space
15:01:46  <Born_Acorn> that eats pies.
15:03:42  <Smoovious> they're deep-fried babel-fish are excellent
15:03:52  <Smoovious> they're=their
15:04:03  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
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15:07:19  <Born_Acorn> hmm, who maintains the technical parts of the Wiki?
15:07:52  <Born_Acorn> I must suggest upgrading to the newest Mediawiki.
15:07:59  <Born_Acorn> We be horribly out of date with it.
15:09:10  <MeusH> Born_Acorn, what are the changes like?
15:09:17  <Born_Acorn> We're running 1.6.6, and the newest is 1.8.2
15:09:19  <MeusH> Born_Acorn, talk to MiHaMiX
15:09:31  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:09:36  <MeusH> Born_Acorn, are there some security upgrades?
15:09:59  <Born_Acorn> hold on.
15:10:05  <MeusH> kk
15:10:35  <Born_Acorn> lots of bug fixes.
15:10:40  <Born_Acorn>
15:10:48  <MeusH> thanks
15:23:05  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
15:23:15  <Celestar> morning
15:23:21  <Rubidium> good afternoon :)
15:23:24  * Celestar looks at watch
15:23:29  <Celestar> afternoon :)
15:29:46  <Celestar> KUDr: I'll review your changes ok?
15:31:49  <Darkvater> hmm ok guys
15:31:54  <Darkvater> I'm off for this year :)
15:32:24  <Darkvater> so happy 2007 to everyone, have a good time, etc., etc. :D
15:32:48  <scia> happy 2007 and don't blow any bodypart off
15:32:48  <Darkvater> see yo on the first somewhere after I awake somtime in the afternoon
15:32:55  <Celestar> Darkvater: happy new year DV
15:32:57  <Darkvater> I'm not into that; waste of money
15:33:20  <Celestar> Darkvater: you'll hopefully find some halfway working customrailbridgeheads :)
15:33:30  <Darkvater> hehe
15:33:43  <Celestar> did we put up a thread on the forums about it?
15:33:47  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:33:47  <Darkvater> happy new year Celestar, Rubidium, peter1138 :D
15:33:58  <Darkvater> and Tron, who is lurking the logs ;p
15:33:59  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
15:34:01  <Rubidium> happy new year to you too Darkvater
15:34:03  <Celestar> ^^
15:34:21  <Celestar> back in 109
15:34:23  <Celestar> 10*
15:34:45  <hylje> lurk more
15:35:42  <MiHaMiX> Born_Acorn: hi
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15:38:02  <KUDr> Celestar: ok
15:43:54  <stillunknown> is there a function called when leaving a bridge?
15:45:50  <Rubidium> not that I'm aware of
15:48:28  *** caladan [] has joined #openttd
15:50:11  <Celestar> back
15:50:16  <caladan> hi
15:50:23  <Celestar> stillunknown: well a bridge doesn't really exist :)
15:50:56  <Celestar> stillunknown: what are you trying to do?
15:51:07  <Celestar> KUDr: ok first I'm trying to understand what you did :)
15:52:15  <stillunknown> i'm trying to slow a train down before it reaches a bridge, but i think i have a solution for my problem
15:54:09  <Celestar> isn't newsignalling supposed to do that some time in the future? :)
15:54:51  <caladan> i've got a problem with registering in flyspray @
15:55:14  <caladan> has anyone spotted that?
15:56:06  <Tuzlo> stillunknown: and that is?
15:56:18  <Celestar> KUDr: I'll move some stuff around that you did :)
15:56:29  <KUDr> np
15:56:43  <KUDr> it is proof-of-concept
15:56:56  <KUDr> so do whatever you want
15:59:04  <Celestar> ok ^^
16:00:49  <Hadez> Anyone interested in a patch that allows Unifont to work in the title screen? I made a patch that states action E safe when it's only used for enabling a GRF in the title screen.
16:01:47  <Hadez> It will stop complains for Czech users who are using Unifont for displaying diacritics.
16:01:47  <Celestar> KUDr: with these change I came up with some crazy idea. We could have two bridges start from the same tile sometime in the future :)
16:01:53  <Celestar> KUDr: not sure it works ^^
16:01:58  <Hadez> Details here:
16:02:50  <KUDr> Celestar: good idea but it will be up to you to get it work :)
16:03:53  <CIA-1> celestar * r7702 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (bridge_cmd.c train_cmd.c): [cbh] - Moved around some functions and changes from r7687 abd 7697
16:03:55  <Celestar> KUDr: ok :)
16:03:59  <Celestar> s/abd/and
16:04:09  <Celestar> KUDr: first I'll try to get to work whatever we have :P
16:04:16  <Celestar> like leaving the bridge :)
16:04:59  <KUDr> i am doing it just now
16:05:12  <Smoovious> does the latest nightly include PBS signalling?
16:05:31  <KUDr> including YAPF debugging (still doesn't work well)
16:05:38  <Celestar> wtf?
16:06:02  <KUDr> leaving needs to invoke pathfinder
16:06:05  <Smoovious> k... wanted to toy with it
16:06:31  <Rubidium> Hadez: I don't think your solution is OK, mainly because you allow _all_ action E GRFs as static GRF, which mean they can be loaded in MP, where they can unload/deactivate GRFs which in it's turn creates desyncs.
16:06:51  <MeusH> caladan, are you still here?
16:07:19  <Hadez> No, I only allow those actions E, which are used for activating the GRF itself.
16:07:23  <MeusH> asl MiHaMiX
16:07:25  <MeusH> ask*
16:07:33  <MeusH> sorry Miham :)
16:08:03  <CIA-1> celestar * r7703 /branches/custombridgeheads/train_cmd.c: [cbh] - Fix: I "optimized" a little too much on previous commit and broke stuff
16:08:06  <Celestar> KUDr: yes
16:08:06  <caladan> yeah
16:08:08  <caladan> what;s up?
16:08:20  <caladan> found bug and wanted to post it, but i dont get any message
16:08:28  <caladan> with passwd
16:08:33  <caladan> from flyspray
16:08:36  <MeusH> no mail with password?
16:08:45  <caladan> yeah, and warning
16:08:47  <caladan> from php
16:08:48  <MeusH> check in "spam" folder
16:08:54  <caladan> ok, i will
16:08:58  <MeusH> if it's really not there, ask MiHaMiX
16:09:16  <MeusH> but you know, it's new year's eve and he might have no time
16:09:29  <caladan> well, email can go a little time, but there;s still that warning
16:09:30  <Celestar> KUDr: you mean the pathfinder should be invoked in that empty "if" in train_cmd.c, right?
16:09:40  <KUDr> yes
16:09:50  <KUDr> it is prepared for if
16:09:50  <Rubidium> Hadez: to be honest, I don't know enough about the GRF stuff, so I guess peter1138 has to look at it to see whether it is ok, but I fear that it might force-load GRFs that do more than sprite-replacements
16:09:51  <Hadez> Rubidium: When action E is called with the same GRF ID as the current file has, it isn't deactivated, but activated.
16:09:54  <KUDr> for it
16:10:18  <Celestar> KUDr: I thought so :)
16:10:28  <KUDr> ok, you can do it
16:10:35  <KUDr> if you can't wait
16:10:41  <Hadez> Rubidium: No, they are blocked again if they want to do so :-)
16:10:48  <KUDr> i am now working more on YAPF debugging
16:11:19  <Hadez> Okay, do you think peter1138 will be around this year?
16:11:49  <MeusH> from #gpmi:
16:12:34  <Celestar> KUDr: I think I got it working, but a BIT ugly
16:12:44  <KUDr> :)
16:13:47  <Celestar> KUDr:
16:13:48  <Celestar> :)
16:14:01  <Celestar> 3 lines :P
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16:14:30  <KUDr> hehe
16:14:33  <KUDr> nice
16:14:43  <KUDr> if it will work, why no?
16:14:49  <KUDr> t
16:15:10  <KUDr> the 'new_tile:' can be inside the block
16:15:18  <KUDr> after '{'
16:16:08  <Celestar> well I hope to get this done without gotos :)
16:16:31  <caladan> ah, sometime goto is a good thing :D
16:16:50  <Celestar> KUDr: maybe encapsulate it in an own function or something
16:17:51  *** Wolfenstiejn [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:19:35  <Celestar> or do you really think gotos are ok? :)
16:20:00  <KUDr> heh
16:20:07  <KUDr> if they save the code
16:20:16  <Celestar> true
16:20:16  <KUDr> and don't make the code messy
16:20:20  <KUDr> why not?
16:20:36  <KUDr> it must be clear what it does
16:20:39  <KUDr> and why
16:20:59  <Celestar> true
16:21:04  <Celestar> maybe add some comments
16:21:06  <KUDr> at least in prototyping phase it doesn't matter
16:21:14  *** Tuzlo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:21:23  <KUDr> then we can see what others think
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16:22:56  <Digitalfox> Happy new year.. The best for 2007!! :)
16:23:06  *** Tuzzy [] has joined #openttd
16:23:07  <MeusH> hello Digitalfox
16:23:12  <MeusH> hello Tuzzy
16:23:33  <Celestar> KUDr: ok
16:23:35  <Celestar> raise shields
16:24:01  <KUDr> :)
16:24:15  <Digitalfox> So people where is going to be you pass of year?? Home?? Party or Work?
16:25:06  <Celestar> $GF
16:25:44  <Digitalfox> Mine this year is at home, with my family and girlfriend.. I'm with a flu so happy new year at bed!! :(
16:25:48  <Celestar> KUDr: hm .. my changes seem to kill loading of old savegames :P
16:26:02  <KUDr> hmm
16:26:06  <KUDr> why?
16:26:26  <Celestar> just debugging
16:26:45  <Tuzzy> party
16:26:47  <Celestar> Error: !Disconnecting train
16:27:30  <hylje> :o
16:31:29  <Celestar> oh
16:31:33  <Celestar> I broke tunnels somehow
16:31:38  <Celestar> I think I know why
16:31:45  <Born_Acorn> I am le back.
16:31:46  <Born_Acorn> Hi MiHaMiX
16:32:18  <Born_Acorn> I was wondering about upgrading the Wiki to the newest version of Mediawiki. I noticed on Special:Version that it's a bit behind.
16:33:09  <hylje> yah, we should totally use the lastest cvs/svn/git of mediawiki
16:34:03  <Celestar> getting there
16:34:11  <Smoovious> oh hey... I like the newer map generator... very nice results... looks very realistic... kudos to whoever worked on it
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16:34:40  <Born_Acorn> We're on 1.6.6, but the newest version is 1.8.2, which fixes many bugs since
16:34:53  <Smoovious> (now if I could only zoom out more so I could better appreciate it :D )
16:35:18  <Digitalfox> So why not update the wiki ??:|
16:35:47  <ArmEagle> Smoovious i'd actually like to zoom IN more :P
16:36:32  <Born_Acorn> Digitalfox, only MiHaMiX can, with his powers of mega adminibility!
16:36:36  <Celestar> ah KUDr found the reason for the crashes I get here
16:36:47  <KUDr> good
16:36:49  <Celestar> isolating
16:37:32  <Digitalfox> oh ok!
16:37:56  <ArmEagle> oh and and opposite camerapoint would be nice :)
16:37:58  <Celestar> KUDr: <= I hate special cases
16:38:05  <hylje>
16:38:23  <KUDr> what to do with it?
16:38:30  <Celestar> KUDr: load the game ^^
16:38:34  <KUDr> i am just debugging YAPF
16:38:40  <KUDr> i can't
16:39:20  <Celestar> ok
16:39:20  <Smoovious> ArmEagle... I'd like to do that too... figure could nail both with the same hammer
16:39:22  <Celestar> I'll go fixin
16:39:24  <MeusH> ArmEagle, if you write a 3d engine without using opengl, openttd will convert ]:>
16:39:32  <Smoovious> don't care much if zooming in makes it pixelated more :D
16:39:56  <hylje> MeusH: without using opengl? thats totally direct3d or raw GPU code
16:40:08  *** Wolfy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:40:09  <ArmEagle> MeusH heh.. not such a star at programming :)
16:40:19  <Celestar> MeusH: I've already done quite some testing about opengl
16:40:42  <hylje> Celestar: you're my hero
16:40:49  <MeusH> some developer (don't remeber his nick) said he won't be eager to use OpenGL
16:40:52  <ArmEagle> well, i bet we'll get another zoom level when the game has newgrf for everything
16:41:15  <MeusH> I don't have anything against, but linuxes aren't the best to go 3d
16:41:26  <Celestar>
16:41:35  <Celestar> MeusH: check that screenshot
16:41:51  <MeusH> oooh
16:41:52  <ArmEagle> wel lthe charm of openttd is that it runs on almost everything..
16:41:59  <MeusH> Celestar, how can I help the developement? :)
16:42:08  <Celestar> MeusH: help me with culling :P
16:42:21  <Celestar> the problem is that map (128x128) took about 60% CPU resouces just to display
16:42:24  <MeusH> exacly ArmEagle, this is why the one didn't want OpenGL, that doesn't work on everything
16:42:29  <Celestar> we have a SHITLOAD of stuff to display
16:42:52  <MeusH> how many triangles does one tile consist of? 8?
16:42:57  <Celestar> MeusH: two
16:43:15  <Celestar> (empty tile)
16:43:25  <MeusH> 32768 is really small amount of triangles
16:43:29  <Bjarni> Celestar: we got a bug report. Wolf01 noticed that towns stopped growing near roads on the other side of bridges some time after RC1
16:43:30  <caladan> wow, nice screenshoot
16:43:33  <ArmEagle> though an opposite viewpoint doesn't need opengl. Sure it isnt easy, but it's just a matter of rotating stuff around :P
16:43:39  <Celestar> Bjarni: it has been fixed.
16:43:39  <MeusH> Bjrani: AFAIK it's fixed
16:43:41  <hylje> MeusH: linux is not bad at 3d stuff. ATi, nVidia, intel all support linux for their gpus
16:43:44  <Bjarni> nice
16:43:46  <ArmEagle> anyway, not important
16:43:58  <Celestar> hylje: MeusH that stuff I showed you is linux
16:44:05  <Wolf01> Bjarni, good, i also saw that is fixed now
16:44:14  <Celestar> MeusH: hylje <= map with textures
16:44:28  <hylje> ow
16:44:43  <ArmEagle> oh, question about presignals (default routing). In TTDpatch you needed to use the double grey signals to offer a choice to trains. Is that stil lthe case in  OpenTTD?
16:44:50  <Celestar> <= larger map
16:44:56  <ArmEagle> actually that isn't only for pre-signals..
16:45:02  <Noldo> ArmEagle: no
16:45:29  <Noldo> ArmEagle: NPF and YAPF support choice making for one-way signals
16:45:31  <caladan> not true about ati
16:45:35  <MeusH> Celestar, is it ortographic projection?
16:45:38  <ArmEagle> ok cool
16:45:38  <caladan> their drivers sux :/
16:46:31  <Celestar> MeusH: I'd need to look at the code
16:46:36  <Celestar> MeusH: it is actually simple
16:46:50  <MeusH> Celestar, so the problem is that far away items drain too much CPU?
16:47:19  <Celestar> MeusH: the whole code to display that stuff (with textures) is 419 lines
16:47:23  <caladan> Well, but real problem will be with trees, stations and trains
16:47:26  <Born_Acorn> [16:08:25] <CIA-1> celestar * r7703 /branches/custombridgeheads/train_cmd.c: [cbh] - Fix: I "optimized" a little too much on previous commit and broke stuff <-- We had a poll, and ise won over ize!
16:47:31  <Born_Acorn> The poll has failed!
16:47:38  <caladan> displaying gound is easy compared to that
16:47:44  <Celestar> MeusH: not CPU. this map puts my graphics card to the limits
16:47:49  <hylje> the thing to help with performance is degrading the stuff further away
16:48:24  <Celestar> caladan: I need some clever idea about how to cull
16:48:35  <Celestar> and even then I'm not sure.
16:48:42  <caladan> hmm?
16:48:45  <Celestar> it might be an alternative, but never a replacemen
16:48:45  <Celestar> t
16:48:58  <caladan> good, i like 2d view :D
16:49:10  <Celestar> OpenGL makes you draw the entire frame over and over and over even if nothing moves
16:49:25  <Born_Acorn> To make 3d look good your need all the latest features.
16:49:27  <Born_Acorn> HDR!
16:49:31  <Celestar> in fact, the whole drawing code for the stuff up there is 3 lines!
16:49:42  <Celestar> ~...glVertexPointer(3, GL_FLOAT, 3 * sizeof(GLfloat) + 2 * sizeof(GLfloat), NULL);
16:49:45  <Celestar> ~...glTexCoordPointer(2, GL_FLOAT, 3 * sizeof(GLfloat) + 2 * sizeof(GLfloat), (char *)NULL + 3 * sizeof(GLfloat));
16:49:47  <caladan> true
16:49:47  <MeusH> Celestar, I remember making a huge map for Q3 engine-based game
16:49:48  <Celestar> ~...glDrawArrays( GL_TRIANGLES, 0, vcount);
16:49:56  <Celestar> there's not much room for optimization
16:50:04  <MeusH> it was so huge that fps was going low to around 20
16:50:20  <Celestar> MeusH: they have very very clever culling algorithms and full-time programmers to develop those :)
16:50:30  <hylje> and the code is open source
16:50:43  <MeusH> I remember setting some variables so that far away objects don't need so much power to be rendered
16:50:45  <Celestar> yeah but a FPS is an entirely different matter
16:51:04  <Celestar> but guys, I first need to find out why my train disconnects :)
16:51:29  <caladan> If i were you, I would just add fog ;-)
16:51:48  <MeusH> Celestar, so fps is nice (>50 or >60), but you worry about usage of GPU?
16:52:05  <caladan> and, if i remember it well, there was a program long time ago called fractal landscape
16:52:10  <caladan> it did something like this
16:52:25  <caladan> thou drawing in 2d really
16:52:47  <Celestar> MeusH: I worry not about usage of MY GPU
16:53:00  <Celestar> I worry about usage of $AVERAGE_USER's GPU ^^
16:53:00  <MeusH> about the other GPUs? :)
16:53:09  <Celestar> I was running this on a Gefore 7600GT
16:53:28  <caladan> lol, dont do things like M$ with vista :P
16:53:31  <Celestar> because I'm rendering the whole map, not only the visible parts
16:53:40  <Celestar> caladan: nah :)
16:53:55  <Celestar> but I can give you the code and you can mess with it :)
16:54:35  <caladan> wanted to learn opengl long time ago - and that's still my plan :D
16:54:45  <caladan> so cant help with 3d
16:54:52  <Sacro>
16:55:56  <caladan> thx :D
16:55:56  <Celestar> caladan: it took me 5 days from knowing NOTHING about 3d programming to that map display you have up there
16:56:08  <caladan> gonna use it some day
16:56:10  <Smoovious> gotta start learning somewhere
16:56:21  <caladan> it's about my engineer diploma now :D
16:56:32  <Smoovious> even if you don't contribute something, you'll get a lot out of just trying to understand what's going on with the code
16:56:36  <Sacro> Celestar: impressive
16:56:48  <Sacro> i have considered doing something in opengl myself
16:56:52  <caladan> right
16:56:55  <MeusH> Celestar, could you check performance of drawing objects very close, at normal distance, and very far away?
16:57:00  <hylje> also be sure to check out quake engine for performance tricks
16:57:16  <MeusH> some say that counting on big numbers, or too many decimal pieces, results in bad performance
16:57:51  <Celestar> Sacro: well I use the very same link you gave above :)
16:57:56  <Celestar> plus some help from the chat
16:58:06  <Celestar> MeusH: currently, a tile is a tile, no matter how far away
16:58:15  <Celestar> MeusH: you'd need to group tiles that are further away
16:58:16  <caladan> there's no need to use 10 decimal point
16:58:24  <Smoovious> the tiles are already drawn up to the zoom level you're using, if I recall
16:58:31  <Sacro> Celestar: really? i suppose i can see which tutorials you used
16:58:43  <Celestar> Sacro: yeah
16:58:46  <Smoovious> just a matter of placing them on the display in the right places
16:58:52  <MeusH> Celestar, but the engine needs to do various calculations in order to draw it
16:59:03  <Celestar> MeusH: that's what the GPU does :)
16:59:14  <Celestar> remember I have a static map, I just compute the posistion ONCE
16:59:20  <MeusH> well, I've heard some people saying that too big numbers are bad
16:59:36  <Sacro> MeusH: yes, you loop around
16:59:38  <MeusH> and I'm talking about computing pixles
16:59:39  <Smoovious> or maybe you're talking about something else. :)
16:59:42  <caladan> MeusH: you mean big floats/doubles?
16:59:59  <MeusH> dunno, just big numbers. it was over 2 years ago
17:00:14  <caladan> well, it's true
17:00:23  <caladan> cause the bigger the number gets, the bigger is the step
17:00:39  <caladan> for floating point has something like exponent and base
17:01:17  <caladan> and the step changes, and, you can get strange results when using big and small numbers at the same time
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17:04:43  <Sacro> arrghh >< base and magnitude
17:04:47  * Sacro needs to revise
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17:06:52  <caladan> huh, dont know those names in english
17:07:59  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:10:33  <stillunknown> KUDr: i got it to work :-)
17:10:45  <KUDr> good
17:11:57  <stillunknown> do you know what newsignals is?
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17:13:23  <Celestar> something KUDr is eager to do :)
17:14:11  <stillunknown> what is the purpose of new signals?
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17:14:33  <stillunknown> @Celestar
17:14:54  <stillunknown> is it just PBS?
17:16:53  <Celestar> much better than PBS
17:17:03  <Celestar> well, real path based signalling actually
17:17:41  <stillunknown> what timeframe is expected?
17:19:43  <stillunknown> Celestar: in other words, is there an intermediate improvement?
17:19:47  <Celestar> KUDr wishes to complete some scripting stuff, then developement will start
17:20:26  <stillunknown> the yapf followtrack was quite handy :-)
17:21:50  <ArmEagle> btw, if there's newgrf for all gamecontent, then no original-game files are needed anymore?
17:24:10  <MeusH> AFAIK no
17:25:31  <Smoovious> real-path based signalling? different than PBS?
17:26:02  <ArmEagle> well i guess PBS isn't in the branch anymore for a reason..
17:26:36  <Smoovious> I'm more wondering what the differences are
17:27:42  <ArmEagle> maybe less error prone when you're editing changing the intersection, who knows
17:29:20  <Smoovious> kinda why I was asking
17:29:42  <Rubidium> ArmEagle: technically it would be possible to remove the original-game files, because you can load 1x1 empty sprites for everything (thought someone tried that and it worked)
17:32:15  <ArmEagle> would be nice though, if OpenTTD wouldn't be depending on original files
17:33:32  <Rubidium> ArmEagle: the problem is that nobody came up with a complete sprite replacement set for _all_ base sprites of OpenTTD
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17:35:53  <ArmEagle> Rubidium well, isn't that what people are working on with newGRF?
17:37:05  <stillunknown> anyone know what a signalbit is?
17:37:20  <Rubidium> stillunknown: where?
17:37:29  <stillunknown> rail_map.h
17:37:38  <stillunknown> 216
17:37:44  <Celestar> what is a signalbit?
17:38:40  <Rubidium> stillunknown: signalbit is a mess :)
17:38:45  <Celestar> it tells you which of the 4 signals on a tile we are currently talking about
17:38:48  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes, that too
17:39:10  <Celestar> KUDr: ok theoretically the goto works
17:39:22  <Celestar> KUDr: practically it causes 0-length bridge to crash
17:39:23  <KUDr> good
17:39:27  <glx> stillunknown: you need to read docs/landscape.html to understand the accessors
17:39:39  <KUDr> one more if?
17:40:18  <Rubidium> ArmEagle: people working on newgrf are usually only replacing parts of the sprites and/or adding them and assigning new/different behaviour to them
17:42:29  <Belugas_Gone> Happy New Year to all of you.  May 2007 bring you all that you wish, and most of all, Health and Wealth !!
17:45:27  <Bjarni> ohh, I'm going to get wealth
17:45:29  <Bjarni> :o
17:46:19  <Celestar> KUDr: I appearently managed it :)
17:46:23  <Celestar> apparently *
17:46:46  <KUDr> you was always the best
17:47:03  <Celestar> nah we're just a good team ^^
17:47:25  <Bjarni> yeah
17:47:40  <Celestar> er
17:47:47  <Celestar> something's wrong with the pathfinder however
17:48:03  <Bjarni> with the whole development team working together towards a common goal (a great game), we can do wonders :D
17:48:34  <Celestar> <= development gone wrong
17:48:37  <ArmEagle> oh, i think i haven't done what i should have done way before.  THANKS GUYS! :)
17:49:45  <Rubidium> Celestar: rather signalling gone wrong :)
17:50:30  <Celestar> or that
17:50:50  <Celestar> <= KUDr shall I commit that and we can see if we can prettify it later?
17:51:12  <Celestar> er it doesn't work
17:51:17  <Celestar> I'll wait till tomorrow
17:51:23  <Celestar> KUDr: your try now :P
17:51:40  <Celestar> cu
17:51:49  <KUDr> ok, cu
17:51:49  <Celestar> happy new year btw :)
17:51:54  <KUDr> you too
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17:52:06  <KUDr> commit it
17:52:10  <KUDr> what you have
17:52:29  <KUDr> it is branch so don't worry
17:54:28  <Smoovious> nice loop... >pictures the engineers flipping off their guy in the caboose< ... >if they still used cabooses<
17:55:00  <Celestar> KUDr: well it doesn't solve the exit problem. .. trains still flying straight now.
17:55:06  <Celestar> so with just the goto it works
17:55:12  <Celestar> but crashes 0 length bridges and tunnels
17:55:33  <Celestar>
17:55:34  <Celestar> that one
17:55:43  <KUDr> commit this one with crash
17:55:53  <Celestar> and you go on?
17:55:59  <KUDr> we can repair it later
17:56:03  <KUDr> yes
17:56:13  <KUDr> i'll see what i can do
17:56:20  <KUDr> still playing with yapf
17:57:04  <Rubidium> should that diff crash in yapf?
17:57:04  <CIA-1> miham * r7704 /trunk/lang/ (estonian.txt swedish.txt):
17:57:04  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 18:56:27
17:57:04  <CIA-1> estonian - 9 fixed, 10 deleted, 1 changed by kristjans (20)
17:57:04  <CIA-1> swedish - 5 changed by ChrillDeVille (5)
17:57:55  <KUDr> Rubidium: i dunno
17:58:22  <Rubidium> Assertion `best_next_node.GetTile() == tile' failed. (yapf/yapf_rail.cpp:139:)
17:58:43  <KUDr> could be
17:59:00  <Celestar> KUDr: will commit in 3 minutes
17:59:00  <Rubidium> savegame:
18:03:21  <Celestar> KUDr: there you go
18:03:22  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:03:24  <CIA-1> celestar * r7705 /branches/custombridgeheads/train_cmd.c:
18:03:24  <CIA-1> [cbh] - Fix: Trains leave the bridge according to the trackbits that a present on the bridge head.
18:03:24  <CIA-1> WARNING: zero-length bridges do not work yet
18:03:27  <Celestar> and now really a happy new year.
18:03:33  <KUDr> ok
18:03:34  <Rubidium> same to you :)
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18:39:37  <Tuzzy> what version is that save Rubidium?
18:39:43  *** Tuzzy is now known as Tuzlo
18:40:05  <glx> Tuzlo: custombridgehead branch
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18:44:50  <Naksu> anyone here know any perl? :D
18:45:21  <caladan> i do, some
18:45:30  <caladan> or rather i did :/
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18:46:26  <Naksu> is there a trick to using @_ ?
18:47:02  <Rubidium> for what?
18:47:09  <caladan> yes
18:47:11  <Rubidium> or where?
18:47:13  <caladan> last thinkg found
18:47:19  <caladan> thing*
18:47:35  <caladan> its universal variable, used for almost everything
18:47:39  <caladan> default argument
18:47:43  <caladan> and default destination
18:48:36  <Naksu> i call a subroutine with foo(1,2,3,4) and in the subroutine i assign the args into variables with my ($a,$b,$c,$d) = @_;
18:49:20  <Naksu> but it doesnt quite work as it should because i get $a = "1", $b = "2 3", c = empty and d = "4"
18:49:24  <caladan> dont know what you want to do with it
18:49:46  <caladan> hmmm
18:50:08  <caladan> maybe something wrong with separator?
18:52:57  <Naksu> gah
18:53:07  <Naksu> there's something wrong in the earlier steps
18:54:45  <Naksu> oh, i'm using  wrong
18:54:55  <Naksu> or rather, 
18:55:21  <CIA-1> miham * r7706 /trunk/lang/catalan.txt:
18:55:21  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 19:54:47
18:55:21  <CIA-1> catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3)
18:56:52  <ln-> anyone from 2007 here?
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18:57:46  <MiHaMiX> not yet
18:58:21  <mattt_> is it not possible to make stations long simply by adding another station on to the end of an existing one?
18:58:25  <Wolf01> i'm from 2025 if you want
18:58:30  <mattt_> do i have to destroy the whole thing and put in a new one?
18:58:41  <Wolf01> yes mattt_ is possible
18:58:49  <Wolf01> enable "non uniform stations"
18:58:54  <mattt_> oh
18:59:13  <mattt_> i have it enabled >_<
18:59:22  <mattt_> i get an error saying the station is too spread out
18:59:30  <mattt_> oh
18:59:32  <Wolf01> increase the station spread
18:59:35  <mattt_> max station spread :)
18:59:44  <mattt_> what does that mean?  max length?
19:02:06  <Wolf01> lenght & width
19:02:20  <Wolf01> stations are square shaped
19:03:40  <Noldo> it limits the area that the station can be spread on
19:32:58  <peter1138> hi
19:38:04  <peter1138> hmm, everyone away?
19:40:56  <stillunknown> it's definately quiet
19:41:45  <hylje> its the new year coming up
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19:44:52  <mattt_> is there a bug preventing auto-renew if a vehicle's age is above the max?
19:46:31  <stillunknown> peter1138: did you make the new realistic accel?
19:47:02  <peter1138> hmm?
19:47:10  <peter1138> which new realistic accel?
19:47:19  <stillunknown> the not so magic number based one
19:47:31  <peter1138> um
19:47:34  <peter1138> where's that?
19:47:45  <peter1138> there's got to be magic numbers somewhere...
19:48:47  <stillunknown> true, but this one has some consideration for tractive effort, although not a lot it seems
19:49:03  <peter1138> i still don't know what you are refering to
19:49:27  <hylje> tractive effort isnt that massive from what ive seen from tests
19:50:57  <stillunknown> then i'll assume you didn't make it
19:51:08  <peter1138> ok
19:51:17  <peter1138> are you refering to the physics acceleration patch?
19:51:35  <stillunknown> no
19:51:56  <stillunknown> GetTrainAcceleration in train_cmd.c
19:52:01  <peter1138> hmm...
19:52:08  <peter1138> there's nothing new about that
19:52:53  <stillunknown> then i mistook a few things
19:52:53  <peter1138> it's had tractive effort added, and the kickoff stuff changed a bit
19:53:04  <peter1138> but the rest is exactly as it was
19:53:39  <stillunknown> must have forgotten how that thing looked after a few months
19:54:31  <peter1138> heh
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20:09:35  <peter1138> hmm
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20:16:32  <mattt_> vehicle replacement needs auto-refit >_<
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20:18:49  <stillunknown> mattt_: better tell it again some other time
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20:31:39  <peter1138> damn, this action E test needs another scan :/
20:31:42  <Smoovious> now, if I create a new map, with industries set to none... will industries still show up later? (wish I could set amount of towns and industries to a # instead of high/med/low... especially on huge maps, low still makes more than I want)
20:31:52  <peter1138> yes
20:32:02  <peter1138> they will appear, but not many
20:32:17  <peter1138> usually not playable with
20:32:26  <peter1138> if it's a primary, there'll be nowhere to take it
20:32:34  <peter1138> if it's a secondary, there'll be nothing to take to i
20:32:34  <peter1138> +t
20:33:04  <Smoovious> that's fine by me...
20:33:24  <Smoovious> I want things to be very scarce to begin with
20:33:54  <Smoovious> plus, with a big map, there are so many economy messages, I can't see when a new industry starts, or one shuts down...
20:33:55  <peter1138> one of my favourite single player games is a 128x128 map with low towns and low industries
20:34:06  <Smoovious> I'm doing 2048x2048
20:34:16  <peter1138> it's pretty challenging as there's not much room, and no scope for doing long runs for huge profits
20:34:20  <Smoovious> I like nice long distances
20:34:31  <hylje> long distance stuff is nice
20:34:34  <Smoovious> heavy investment for questionable return
20:34:35  <hylje> ???
20:34:37  <hylje> profit
20:35:19  <Smoovious> would also like to be able to move refineries even more inland... a limit of 48 is ok for smaller maps...
20:35:35  <Smoovious> that way I can make a lot of ocean area around the edges
20:35:53  * Smoovious grins.
20:36:13  <Smoovious> the super-huge maps just open up so many more possibilities of scenarios to make
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20:42:00  <peter1138> long distance is cheap
20:42:04  <peter1138> and gives massive returns
20:42:46  <Smoovious> there have been some runs I tried to design on TTD where I ran out of money and couldn't buy engines by the time I got things the way I wanted
20:43:00  <Smoovious> (plus you can set building costs to high too)
20:43:03  <peter1138> well obviously you start small
20:43:08  <peter1138> and work your way up
20:43:14  <peter1138> a couple of small runs to finance construction
20:43:21  <peter1138> then you're in profit the rest of the game
20:43:31  <Smoovious> yeah, but I didn't wanna. :D
20:44:14  <Smoovious> the idea I have is, generating a map, where the only small runs possible, would be mass-transit in-city
20:44:44  <Smoovious> trying to make things hard on myself
20:50:47  <Ailure> §~
20:56:58  <mattt_> yikes.. what's a good strategy for converting a network to monorail?
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20:59:16  <Smoovious> um... do it while paused? :D
20:59:25  <mattt_> heh
20:59:28  <mattt_> i can't build while paused
20:59:30  <mattt_> :|
20:59:34  <mattt_> guess i could change that
20:59:41  <Smoovious> :)
21:00:13  <MeusH> back
21:02:47  <CIA-1> miham * r7707 /trunk/lang/ (estonian.txt portuguese.txt):
21:02:47  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-12-31 22:02:12
21:02:47  <CIA-1> estonian - 1 fixed, 27 deleted, 2 changed by kristjans (30)
21:02:47  <CIA-1> portuguese - 1 changed by nars (1)
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21:07:45  *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2AFK
21:13:42  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7708 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/ (8 files): [cbh] - Fix: [YAPF] added some YAPF debug messages, added string support used for new debugging stuff, resolved few cbh related issues
21:20:14  <mattt_> i have way too much rail to convert to mono >_<
21:21:38  <mattt_> it's all about relay stations.. time to start over :(
21:22:40  <hylje> mattt_: in default grf monorails are kinda lame
21:22:51  <hylje> mattt_: when you're done converting maglev comes available
21:24:07  <mattt_> well.. converting to that would be just as difficult
21:25:02  <mattt_> my new plan is to build all lines as a series of relays, and transferring cargo from one line to another so you can convert one line at a time
21:25:26  <mattt_> that was a terrible description, but i'm sure you understand :P
21:40:22  <Tuzlo> I converted all my rails directly from electric to maglev while paused
21:40:50  <Tuzlo> cost about 1/2 Billion $$$, but my trains are takinin  billion annually now
21:41:04  <hylje> how did you convert with trains on it?
21:41:44  <Tuzlo> sent all the trains to depot, and converted the rails
21:41:58  <Tuzlo> then made dupe depot beside the other and converted trains one by one
21:42:55  <hylje> o ya
21:43:36  <Tuzlo> was time consuming, but the only way to do it
21:43:51  <Tuzlo> this is when you really find out where your choke points are
21:44:16  <Tuzlo> ironic thing is im only transporting goods byrail, no ppl at all
21:47:54  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7709 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj yapf/str.hpp yapf/strapi.hpp): -Fix: (r7708) 2 new files added into VC8 project, added missing 'svn:keywords=Id' for those
21:48:14  <hylje> svn:keywords "Id"
21:53:47  <KUDr> :)
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22:15:52  <Bjarni> <--- heh
22:16:46  <Zaviori> :D
22:16:59  <hylje> nice
22:17:18  <hylje> btw, canals are kinda broken in at least r7603
22:17:24  <hylje> you cant build them on sealevel
22:17:33  <hylje> well, its possible but it floooods
22:18:04  <Bjarni> canals are buggy
22:18:12  <Bjarni> the pathfinder really messes up in them
22:18:39  <Bjarni> they are too expensive compared to just lowering the land
22:18:57  <Bjarni> and ships aren't good enough to justify such an investment
22:19:01  <hylje> yeah
22:19:07  <hylje> but its cool to have sea-level rail
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22:19:24  <hylje> thats not kinda possible with canal tiles just flooding around
22:19:26  <Bjarni> we need to completely rebalance the game some day
22:19:36  <Bjarni> making all vehicle types more valid
22:19:49  <hylje> that means nerfing the shit out of trains
22:19:51  <Bjarni> and making speeds comparable
22:19:52  <Smoovious> too many vehicle types have the same speed limits too...
22:20:05  <Bjarni> that as well
22:22:14  <Bjarni> damn I'm tired
22:22:22  <Rubidium> KUDr: there custombridgeheads does not compile anymore for G(CC|++)-4.1
22:22:25  <Bjarni> and I'm not going to get any sleep before next year :(
22:22:40  <Smoovious> you say that as if that's a bad thing
22:22:43  <KUDr> Rubidium: why?
22:22:50  <KUDr> what are the errors?
22:23:06  <KUDr> many?
22:23:13  <Bjarni> Smoovious: if this were a normal night, I would have went to bed long ago :s
22:23:45  <Rubidium> KUDr:
22:23:55  <KUDr> thanks
22:23:59  <Smoovious> ahh... well, I'm usually nocturnal anyways... only difference for me right now is waiting a few more hours before I break into my 12pak
22:25:38  <Bjarni> bbl
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22:33:53  <ln-> greetings from the future
22:38:26  <stillunknown> i hope 2007 will be a year were bridges are not voids :-)
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22:50:33  <peter1138> Rubidium:
22:50:37  <peter1138> (sucks...)
22:51:21  <peter1138> (re FS#495)
23:05:51  <Born_Acorn> buffers!
23:08:32  <peter1138> yes!
23:13:45  <Rubidium> peter1138: sucks in what way?
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23:40:40  <Gonozal_VIII> the end is near!
23:40:49  <Bjarni> happy new year
23:41:27  <Gonozal_VIII> hny :-)
23:41:49  <Bjarni> damn, I hate those temporal anomalies. Now we are in the same channel at the same time, but not in the same year
23:42:05  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
23:42:43  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't see any changes...
23:42:53  <Bjarni> yeah
23:42:56  <Bjarni> that's my point
23:43:00  <Bjarni> I'm in 2007
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23:43:07  <Bjarni> and I just wrote to a guy in 2006
23:43:17  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- 2007
23:43:23  <Gonozal_VIII> 0:43
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23:43:30  <XeryusTC> HAPPY NEW YEAR CETers!
23:43:38  <Bjarni> I know what happened in 2006, so the thought is not so scary for me, but think of him.... he got a message from the future
23:43:42  <XeryusTC> gmt people almost there :P
23:43:53  <Gonozal_VIII> just came back from burning stuff
23:43:56  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: everyone knows what happened in 2006
23:44:01  <XeryusTC> its 2 years ago by now
23:44:01  <Bjarni> 	<Gonozal_VIII>	<-- 2007 <-- not you, the Canadian :P
23:46:00  <Bjarni> so... it's new year's eve, so why are we sitting here talking about temporal physics?
23:46:23  <Bjarni> well, I know why I'm here, but why are you guys here?
23:46:42  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not into that drinking thing...
23:47:24  <Bjarni> you mean drinking and fireworks don't mix?
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23:47:59  <Gonozal_VIII> just look at the news tomorrow^^
23:48:08  <Gonozal_VIII> today..
23:48:10  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7710 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/ (yapf_common.hpp yapf_rail.cpp):
23:48:10  <CIA-1> [cbh] - Fix: [YAPF] one more assert fixed. Call from the TrainController() added
23:48:10  <CIA-1> by (r7705) has broken YAPF because it was called when vehicle was already on the
23:48:10  <CIA-1> next tile (with cbh choice). Before it was always called before the train
23:48:10  <CIA-1> entered tile with choice.
23:49:18  <Bjarni> actually in the past few days, two people lost an entire hand due to fireworks (illegals only). Another guy lost 3 fingers or so
23:49:22  *** glx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:49:35  <Gonozal_VIII> great...
23:49:42  <Bjarni> and I still haven't heard about what happened/happens tonight
23:51:37  <Gonozal_VIII> but that's their own fault, it's worse when they burn down other people's houses and such
23:51:56  <glx|away> KUDr: with g++ (GCC) 3.4.2 (mingw-special)
23:52:15  <KUDr> thanks
23:52:21  *** glx|away is now known as glx
23:53:08  <KUDr> "there are no arguments to `RawSize' that depend on a template parameter, so a declaration of `RawSize' must be available" << i am totally confused from this
23:53:31  <valhallasw> KUDr: it's 2007
23:53:36  <valhallasw> and you are DEVVING? :P
23:53:44  <KUDr> yes
23:53:47  <KUDr> why not
23:53:52  <Gonozal_VIII> is 2007 a bad year for deving?
23:53:55  <KUDr> i was devving also in 2006
23:54:01  <KUDr> so why not this year?
23:54:12  <valhallasw> the first hours of 2007 are for partying :P
23:54:30  <KUDr> i have to work on ottd
23:54:36  <KUDr> partytime will be then
23:56:08  <Gonozal_VIII> actually it's a day like every other day, nothing special with it
23:56:58  <Gonozal_VIII> but burning down stuff without looking crazy is a good thing :-)
23:57:54  <Gonozal_VIII> (i like fire and explosions) :D
23:58:19  <Rubidium> glx: that compile error looks an awful lot about the one I gave to him a few hours ago :)
23:59:16  <glx> Rubidium: hehe I didn't check your link :)
23:59:28  <Gonozal_VIII> less than a minute of 2006 left in the next timezone...

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