Log for #openttd on 1st January 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06  <pv2b> happy new year utc
00:04:03  <MeusH> happu new year dudes and girls
00:05:02  <MeusH> peter1138! newyear!
00:05:50  <glx> KUDr: yapf/strapi.hpp and yapf/str.hpp have problems too
00:06:32  <KUDr> i am trying to get my ubuntu working
00:06:40  <KUDr> and then i will repair it
00:06:59  <Bjarni> <valhallasw>	the first hours of 2007 are for partying :P <-- some party if you have to go to IRC to tell us :P
00:16:15  <peter1138> happy new year etc
00:16:42  <peter1138> Rubidium: the filescan/safetyscan stuff needs to both be done for the action e test
00:19:25  <Rubidium> you mean that you have to scan the file twice?
00:20:09  <Rubidium> didn't you do that already for static grfs?
00:21:40  <Born_Acorn> Developers of the world unite and update this if you please can!
00:22:13  <peter1138> Rubidium: no, i combined grfid and unsafe scan
00:22:21  <peter1138> but action e happens before action 8
00:22:28  <peter1138> but we need grfid for action e
00:22:45  <peter1138> tum te tum
00:23:40  <Rubidium> hmm
00:24:26  <Rubidium> bummer
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00:25:09  <Sutherland> happy new year :D
00:25:20  <Rubidium> hmm, in the diff there are still two 'phases' used
00:26:31  <peter1138> yes
00:26:36  <peter1138> not still though
00:26:59  <peter1138> hmm, damn
00:27:12  <peter1138> we don't store desert state for stations
00:29:38  <peter1138> raa
00:29:39  <peter1138> i'm off again
00:29:45  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: buffers will be ready tomorrow ;D
00:29:51  <Born_Acorn> Woooo
00:30:03  <peter1138> errrr
00:30:04  <peter1138> 00:27
00:30:08  <peter1138> later today then
00:31:06  <Athorium> Happy new year!
00:31:28  <Sutherland> thx :D
00:31:38  <Sutherland> and u to
00:32:14  <Athorium> ^_^
00:32:41  <KUDr> unix gurus: where are wcslen() and vswprintf and wcscmp() and so on functions declared?
00:34:12  <Rubidium> well, I have manpages for those functions
00:34:20  *** qfh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:34:38  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
00:34:40  <KUDr> should it be <wchar.h>?
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00:35:33  <Bjarni> [01:25:08] 	<Sutherland>	happy new year :D <--- I tend to say something like that closer to 0:00 :P
00:37:47  <Sutherland> hmm yeah but.. i just came home and wanted to wish u all a happy new year any thing wrong with that?
00:38:13  <Bjarni> nothing
00:38:20  <Bjarni> :)
00:38:25  <Sutherland> hehe :D
00:48:06  <stillunknown> happy new year everyone
00:49:19  <Bjarni> hey I'm getting popular
00:49:37  <Bjarni> unknown people wish me happy new year :D
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00:51:55  <stillunknown> Bjarni: is it me or are bridges in ottd less than perfect?
00:52:20  <Ailure> *insert a image macro of CAPTAIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE here*
00:52:30  <Ailure> :D
00:52:34  <Ailure> Well happy new years all I guess
00:52:44  <stillunknown> even if they are a seperate "place"
00:52:52  <stillunknown> they still don't have a central place
00:54:40  <Bjarni> well, Celestar is still working hard on improving the bridges
00:55:08  <Ailure> heh
00:55:15  <Ailure> wasn't it in trunk for a bit?
00:56:05  <stillunknown> the "bridgebranch" was merged, custom bridge heads hasn't as far as i know
00:56:35  <Vikthor> Happy New Year and good night everyone
00:56:51  <Bjarni> it was merged and then a new bridge branch was created to work on the bridge heads
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01:06:48  <MeusH> goodnight!
01:06:54  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
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01:40:46  <Athorium> hey, someone can say me, what PBS is better, NPF or YAPF?
01:41:03  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7711 /trunk/newgrf.c:
01:41:03  <CIA-1> -Fix (r7354): NewGRF Action 7, GRF check condition 10 didn't ignore unknown GRF IDs. Also separate GRF ID conditions
01:41:03  <CIA-1> from parameter conditions to remove code duplication in GRF checking code.
01:41:05  <peter1138> neither NPF or YAPF are PBS
01:41:28  <Nigel> i think he/she meant pathfinder
01:41:56  <Athorium> sorry, PBS are Path-Based, I mean pathfind
01:41:57  <Athorium> :P
01:42:08  <peter1138> path based signalling
01:42:18  <peter1138> so
01:42:20  <peter1138> yapf is better
01:42:25  <Athorium> why?
01:42:35  <Rubidium> faster
01:42:36  <Smoovious> but if you wanna ignore the wrongness of the question, then yapf is better
01:42:43  <Rubidium> and the same functionality of NPF
01:43:23  <Athorium> I waiting to the release with a same TTDPatch PBS... a PBS with signals (exit, entrance, combo...)
01:43:27  <Rubidium> the OPF (old/original) one is faster than YAPF though, but doesn't always find paths when they exist
01:43:43  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7712 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/ (blob.hpp str.hpp strapi.hpp): [cbh] - Fix: [YAPF] make those 3 files added in (r7708) compilable by g++
01:43:55  <Smoovious> Athorium... do you even know what PBS means?
01:44:03  <Athorium> Path-Based Signals
01:44:14  <Smoovious> no need for entrance/exit/combo... they're path based
01:44:29  <Rubidium> Smoovious... wrong...
01:44:32  <Athorium> Smoovious are you sure? :S I tried to make it and not works correctly...
01:44:47  <Smoovious> did I look at the examples incorrectly?
01:44:59  <Athorium> I no have any screenshot
01:45:06  <Athorium> but, if you wait, I can give you one...
01:45:07  <peter1138> no, you followed hackykid's interpretation
01:45:08  <Rubidium> Smoovious: you want to be able to tell the trains to stop before the PBS block when going into a station and all platforms are used
01:45:19  <peter1138> there are instances where pbs presignals could be useful
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01:45:38  <Smoovious> well, yeah, but that still makes block signalling a seperate thing
01:47:05  <Athorium> and the oneway pbs?
01:47:08  <Smoovious> the PBS, in and of itself, doesn't need exit signals because it being clear or not, is based on the path of the train
01:47:38  <Smoovious> the block signalling, still has its uses as a seperate entity tho
01:48:21  <Athorium> and when a one-way PBS?
01:48:32  <Smoovious> a one-way pbs?
01:49:04  <Athorium> yes
01:49:19  <Athorium> to be PBS enabled need signals in both directions
01:49:23  <Smoovious> if you mean what I think you mean, then it is a waste of a pbs signal... just use a normal signal instead...
01:49:32  <Athorium> not really
01:49:36  <Athorium> wait and look
01:50:23  <Smoovious> don't throw a URL at me... I don't have a browser on here and I'm not in the mood to retype URL's onto the other computer right now
01:50:33  <Athorium> uhmm
01:50:36  <Athorium> and if I send it to you?
01:50:43  <Smoovious> I'll beat you up
01:51:36  <Athorium> :?
01:51:41  <Smoovious> in the examples of PBS I saw... (which happens to be on the website's wiki)... they all appeared to be single-direction signals
01:51:58  <Gonozal_VIII> [02:49:19] <Athorium> to be PBS enabled need signals in both directions <-- i don't know if i understand what you want to say there right... but no
01:52:11  <Athorium>  Gonozal_VIII
01:52:24  <Athorium> I can't make a enabled PBS with only one signal in only one direction
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01:52:56  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... last time I used that patch he's talking about, which was years ago, you had to set up signals with a kind of, well, kludge...
01:52:57  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs with one single signal doesn't make sense, it has to be a signal block
01:53:15  <Athorium> wait, I making the screen
01:53:33  <Smoovious> he's talking about a directional signal... not bidirectional
01:54:23  <Gonozal_VIII> i played miniin with pbs for some time, was no problem with 1way signals
01:55:23  <Gonozal_VIII> i almost never use bidirectional signals of any kind
01:57:03  <Gonozal_VIII> ah you mean when trains only chose an alternative path with 2way signals?
01:57:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that is long gone
01:58:07  <Gonozal_VIII> and has nothing to do with pbs..
01:58:28  <Athorium> hmmm
01:58:31  <Athorium> I go to try it... :S
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02:02:07  <SpComb> Logs:
02:02:07  <Guest56> !logs
02:04:53  * Guest56 slaps Gonozal_VIII around a bit with a large trout
02:05:07  <Athorium> well, I seen a little "bug" with this... I don't know why one train stops it at a signal when no trains are crossing...
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02:05:25  <Guest56> pbs is buggy
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02:06:13  <Athorium> I see..
02:06:16  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
02:07:14  <Athorium>
02:08:08  <Gonozal_VIII> wow... you need tons of extra signals on those tracks
02:08:38  <Athorium>
02:08:42  <Athorium> bridge continuation
02:09:51  <Gonozal_VIII> incomplete pbs blocks
02:10:08  <Gonozal_VIII> track on the left side doesn't have any signals
02:10:48  <Athorium>  Gonozal_VIII after bridge have a signals
02:11:19  <Athorium>
02:11:19  <Gonozal_VIII> not enough
02:11:23  <Athorium> 'before station'
02:11:57  <Gonozal_VIII> all tracks that go in and out of the pbs block need to have a pbs signal
02:12:04  <Athorium> all have it
02:12:26  <Gonozal_VIII> no
02:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> left doesn't
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02:12:35  <Athorium> what track no have it?
02:12:50  <Athorium> left have a signal, but are looking to "rear" look better
02:12:51  <peter1138> attack of the huge PNG
02:12:51  <peter1138> ah well
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02:13:17  <Athorium> all tracks have PBS signals
02:13:26  <Gonozal_VIII> you wouldn't need pbs there anyways
02:14:11  <Gonozal_VIII> just split the tracks before the station, add some normal signals, maybe presignals and merge them after the bridges
02:14:56  <Athorium> the rail have 4 tracks, the left track are for "one way" the 2 tracks in middle are 'two ways' and the track in right are 'one way'
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02:15:43  <Athorium> I make 4 tracks because in this line goes more than 20 trains
02:16:05  <Athorium> 3 neighborhoods lines and 1 big distances line
02:16:05  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. the signs are well hidden..
02:16:27  <Athorium> yes, are very hidden, for this motive I saw you look better :P
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02:16:44  <Gonozal_VIII> i think 1 track would be enough with more signalling and a shorter bridge
02:17:02  <Athorium> yes, between bridge and station on lateral tracks I add one normal signal
02:17:15  <Athorium> in the 2 middle tracks I can't add any signal
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02:21:52  <Athorium> and this is the other station after the screens station
02:21:54  <Athorium>
02:23:08  <Gonozal_VIII> ugly curve there...
02:23:48  <Athorium> I know... the curve in the left?
02:24:33  <Gonozal_VIII> after the c1 waypoint
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02:25:08  <Athorium> yeah, the 3 tracks curve, 45º curve?
02:25:19  <Athorium> 90º sorry
02:25:21  <Athorium> .p
02:26:06  <Gonozal_VIII> i always try to have at least 3 straight tiles or 6-7 triangular track segments
02:26:37  <Gonozal_VIII> so trains don't have to slow down
02:26:46  <Athorium> me too, minium 4 tiles used to a curve, but this are a "forced" curve... :(
02:27:11  <Athorium> I think that I solve it before the line opening
02:27:22  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't be hard to fix
02:27:51  <Athorium> with YAPF, PBS works?
02:27:54  <Athorium> or not works?
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02:28:04  <KUDr> no
02:28:08  <Athorium> ok
02:28:22  <Athorium> well, I try to finish the C1 line...
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02:29:02  <Athorium> ah fucking bribes..
02:29:03  <Athorium> -_-
02:29:12  <Gonozal_VIII> trees are cheaper ;-)
02:29:22  <Athorium> I have a lot of money
02:29:22  <Athorium> :P
02:29:29  <glx> and safer
02:29:57  <Athorium> now I have 305 million $
02:31:28  <Athorium> my trains makes every year more than 150 million $
02:34:21  <Gonozal_VIII> fast trains, long distance, no problem to get high profits
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02:34:51  <Athorium> I'm only on 1935
02:34:52  <Athorium> .p
02:35:01  <Gonozal_VIII> so?^^
02:35:46  <Athorium> the fastest train I have, goes at 112 Km/h
02:35:59  <Gonozal_VIII> add more engines :-)
02:36:06  <Athorium> the speed no changes
02:36:07  <Athorium> ;)
02:36:21  <Athorium> more engines = more power, no more speed
02:36:23  <Athorium> :)
02:36:26  <Gonozal_VIII> disable max speed, enable realistic acceleration *gg*
02:36:32  <Athorium> hehe
02:36:33  <Athorium> no
02:36:39  <Athorium> I want a realistic play
02:36:40  <Athorium> ^^
02:38:18  <KUDr> current 'realistic acceleration' acceleration is very unrealistic
02:39:19  <Athorium> I think that most unrealistic is the deceleration... trains goes from 300 Km/h to 0 Km/h in less than 3 tiles... :S
02:39:54  <Gonozal_VIII> less than one tile in front of a red sign...
02:40:01  <Athorium> really?
02:40:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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02:40:18  <Athorium> omg...
02:40:18  <Athorium> xDD
02:40:52  <Gonozal_VIII> that's why i consider maglev passenger service as transportation of liquid goods :-)
02:41:08  <glx> hehe
02:41:24  <Smoovious> that's good, Gonozal_VIII. :D
02:42:02  <Athorium> uhmm... passenger's negatives G... omg... explodes on wagons...
02:42:02  <Athorium> xDD
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02:45:23  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- evil... i had a test track with 2 100-engine dbsetxl transrapid trains, full with 24.000 passengers each, going 916 km/h, opposite direction on a loop without signals...
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02:46:56  <Athorium> o_O
02:47:08  <Athorium> omg... you are satanas!
02:47:09  <Athorium> xDD
02:48:29  <Athorium> uhmmm
02:48:34  <Athorium> <--------- real or fake?
02:48:45  <Gonozal_VIII> in the same a testgame i found out that a train can go through itself without crashing
02:49:21  <Gonozal_VIII> i think that's a fake but something simmilar happened
02:49:40  <Athorium> lol
02:52:22  <Gonozal_VIII>
02:52:53  <Athorium> o_O
02:53:20  <Athorium>
02:53:22  <Athorium> OMG
02:53:40  <Athorium> what doing the train driver before crash? :S
02:54:47  <Athorium> <-- simply... incredible
03:01:27  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
03:01:53  <Sacro> happy new year all!
03:06:45  * Smoovious opens beer #3
03:07:01  <ArmEagle> stop talking on topic and celebrate! :)
03:07:06  <ArmEagle> Happy New Year!
03:14:01  <BFM> Pfff, New Years was so 14 hours ago.
03:14:24  <BFM> :P
03:14:29  <mikk36|lap> 5 hours :)
03:14:42  <mikk36|lap> but
03:14:55  <mikk36|lap> west coast usa still has it to come :D
03:14:56  <ArmEagle> still new year here.. a whole new year long!
03:15:48  <Smoovious> New Years was 8,758 hours ago for me
03:16:00  <Gonozal_VIII> ,758?
03:16:06  <Smoovious> east coast still does too
03:16:13  <Smoovious> it is 10:15p
03:16:27  <mikk36|lap> east too ???
03:16:31  <mikk36|lap> :P
03:16:34  <Gonozal_VIII> 15 minutes is more like 0,25ish
03:16:43  <Smoovious> east is UTC-5, west is UTC-8
03:16:51  <mikk36|lap> haha
03:16:57  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... I was rounding
03:17:17  <Gonozal_VIII> rounding 10,25 to 8,758?
03:17:23  <mikk36|lap> lol
03:18:34  * ArmEagle is pondering whether he should start another small map at 4am+ or just go to bed..
03:18:53  <mikk36|lap> just go to bed
03:18:59  <mikk36|lap> i am there already :)
03:18:59  <Gonozal_VIII> it's never too late for a new map :-)
03:19:09  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- in bed too
03:20:10  <Gonozal_VIII> i have my screen on a chair next to the bed and keyboard + mouse in bed^^
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03:20:20  <Nigel> train wrecks are spectacular, but our truck wrecks are even better
03:20:31  <mikk36|lap> ?
03:20:47  <Smoovious> no, rounding 10.25 to 10:00-ish... then subtracting 2 hours from how many are in a year
03:21:07  <mikk36|lap> truck wrecks in nz ?
03:21:21  <Nigel> yeah
03:21:25  <Gonozal_VIII> then subtracting 2 hours from how many are in a year <-- :S
03:22:07  <Gonozal_VIII> ah... you use , as a thousend seperator thing..
03:22:12  <Nigel> thats what we call Home Delivery
03:23:01  <mikk36|lap> lol
03:23:13  <Gonozal_VIII> i always forget that... we write 10.000,00 here...
03:23:21  <Nigel>,,95988a15455,00.html
03:24:30  <Nigel> (right through the middle of the second house)
03:24:40  <mikk36|lap> damn
03:24:46  <mikk36|lap> gotta get some plugin
03:24:48  <mikk36|lap> to play it
03:24:50  <Smoovious> you use a comma as a decimal seperator?
03:24:51  <ArmEagle> hmm, what is the max. reliability of traisn beased on. just the random seed? Since i just started a new map and it's totally different
03:24:51  <Smoovious> wierd
03:25:11  <Gonozal_VIII> through three houses^^ our house has 80-100 cm thick stone walls, wouldn't have come far
03:25:48  <Nigel> right, now here is the really good bit... the driver of the tanker, was choking on a lolly
03:25:49  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, comma decimal
03:26:21  <Gonozal_VIII> . for thousand
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03:27:47  <Nigel> Gonozal_VIII, note, 25 thousand litres of milk
03:28:02  <Gonozal_VIII> that's lots of milk...
03:28:32  <Nigel> not a drop spilt
03:28:50  <Gonozal_VIII> crappy wooden walls...
03:30:40  <Nigel> frontpage today was spectacular though
03:34:56  <Gonozal_VIII> some years ago a large stone block (about 5m in diameter) ran through some houses in my town... nobody got hurt but large parts of the houses were destroyed
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04:20:21  <CIA-1> miham * r7713 /trunk/lang/ (estonian.txt turkish.txt):
04:20:21  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-01 05:19:34
04:20:21  <CIA-1> estonian - 2 changed by kristjans (2)
04:20:21  <CIA-1> turkish - 10 changed by jnmbk (10)
04:21:45  <MiHaMiX> morning :)
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04:34:24  <Nigel> afternoon :)
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04:40:56  <MiHaMiX> :)
04:41:40  <PandaMojo> Smoovious: *weird
04:42:10  <PandaMojo> (sorry, pet peeve :3)
04:42:46  <Smoovious> I know it is spelled wrong... but I still spell it that way even tho I know it is wrong
04:42:59  <PandaMojo> D:
04:43:05  <Smoovious> no reason why... and I know I do it... but I still do it. :P
04:43:09  <PandaMojo> lol
04:43:28  <Smoovious> I spell it correctly when I'm writing formally
04:43:54  <PandaMojo> I used to have a URL with it in it is part of why it drives me nutts I think :P
04:44:43  <Smoovious> I understand... you should see me go off when someone triggers my "I download all of my warez off of usenet" peeve... usenet doesn't have warez... altnet however, is chok full of em
04:45:19  <Smoovious> as much as they like the alt.* groups, you'd think they'd give them the respect they deserve by calling them by their right name
04:45:45  <PandaMojo> Heh.
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05:24:58  <BFM> Man firefox 1.5 is awesome. Who here also edits the usercontent.css file to block ads, counters, etc?
05:35:37  <Sacro> not m
05:35:37  <Sacro> e
05:35:48  * Sacro uses firefox 2.0.1 with adblock pro
05:36:21  <Sacro> Smoovious: altnet ftw
05:36:52  * Smoovious nods.
05:37:45  <Smoovious> I'm just too old-school, where we always made the distinction... people generally just got lazy and call the whole newsgroup system usenet... just grates on my nerves...
05:38:25  <Nigel> i upgraded to FF2 on a computer i admin, reverted the next day
05:39:09  <Gonozal_VIII> buggy thing..
05:40:00  <Gonozal_VIII> i had it about an hour on my pc then i went back to 1.5
05:40:08  <Nigel> ah ha! i finally found out where the knob from the chair came from
05:40:27  <Nigel> i don't even have FF on this laptop
05:40:55  <Gonozal_VIII> not even the tabs did work with ff2
05:45:09  <Nigel> personally i just don't use FF anymore, find that solves many problems
05:46:32  <Gonozal_VIII> no... 1.5 is great
05:47:09  <BFM> Sacro, how do you rate Adblock?
05:47:31  <Sacro> BFM: i use adblock pro with filterset g updater
05:47:34  <Sacro> works nicely
05:47:50  <BFM> Is it a Freeware add on for 1.5?
05:48:11  <Sacro> yeah
05:48:17  <Sacro> and im going to bed, night
05:48:25  <Gonozal_VIII> i have addblock and noscript
05:48:34  <Gonozal_VIII> -d
05:48:37  <BFM> At the moment, when ever I see an ad, I simply go to the webpage source, find the source of the ad, and then block it out with script in the usercontent.css file found in chrome dir
05:49:03  <Gonozal_VIII> i right click on the ad and then click block :-)
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05:51:05  <BFM> *throws a flash ad at Gonozal_VIII*
05:52:09  <Gonozal_VIII> *blocks it*
05:52:40  <BFM> How can you right click flash ads :S
05:53:11  <Gonozal_VIII> dunno^^
05:53:33  <Gonozal_VIII> do you have a link with a page that has flash ad?
05:53:55  <BFM> hmm, not on me
05:54:22  <BFM> I just downloaded adblock extension for firefox. No idea if it's working or not though.
05:55:07  <Gonozal_VIII> right click on some image...
05:56:32  <Gonozal_VIII> or a frame :-)
05:57:54  <BFM> And the internet just got smaller
05:58:15  <BFM> I'm to scared to use it :S
05:59:06  <Gonozal_VIII> wow...
06:00:27  <Nigel> bleh, i find disabling flash handy
06:02:28  <BFM> Nigel, me too
06:04:16  <Gonozal_VIII> it does block flash..
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07:06:10  <MeusH> hey
07:10:30  <Gonozal_VIII> ho
07:32:25  <BurningFeetMan> What do ya know!
07:36:46  <mattt_> is there a way to shorten platforms without completely destroying them?
07:52:36  <Nigel> mattt_, click on the platform button, then the bulldozer
07:52:46  <Nigel> then shorten square by square
07:52:52  <mattt_> :D
07:52:54  <mattt_> thanks
07:53:04  <mattt_> didn't even think of that ^_^
07:55:41  <mattt_> i seriously need an undo button
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08:17:32  <mattt_> is there a limit on how much rail i can have laid?
08:17:48  <mattt_> because sections of rail are randomly disappearing :|
08:18:11  <Rubidium> sounds like disasters happening
08:18:55  <Rubidium> or are you in a multiplayer with an unpassworded company?
08:19:04  <mattt_> single player, disasters off
08:19:23  <mattt_> i've started seeing these disc UFO type things flyin around
08:19:37  <Rubidium> then disasters are turned on
08:19:46  <mattt_> er
08:19:49  <mattt_> wtc
08:19:54  <mattt_> coulda sworn they were off
08:26:55  <Nigel> if i sound rude if at this stage i added in an "opps"
08:27:18  <Nigel> errr would i
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08:33:37  <MeusH> bye
08:33:42  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
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08:59:05  <Nigel> "ERROR: You don't have resource consent"
08:59:06  <Nigel> :P
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10:26:17  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7714 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/blob.hpp: - Cleanup: 'replace' artifacts comments in comments
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10:55:06  <Rubidium> hi Bjarni :)
10:56:02  <Bjarni> hi Rubidium
10:59:53  <roboman> are any of you guys on peter1138's server?
11:00:48  *** roboman is now known as roboboy
11:01:55  <roboboy> i cant find the citystation grf version that he is using on his server
11:08:03  <Rubidium> roboboy: what about ?
11:08:03  <roboboy> i thought those dl links were broken
11:08:03  <Bjarni> ---	roboman is now known as roboboy <-- you know, the rest of us just advanced a year. It appears that you went the wrong way :P
11:08:03  <roboboy> heh
11:08:10  <roboboy> hm hes fixed it
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11:51:31  <Nigel> Bjarni, haha, nice one
12:01:02  <peter1138> KUDr: ping
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12:07:38  <KUDr> peter1138: pong
12:15:43  <Brianetta> Afternoon, people
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12:16:13  <mikk36> mornin'
12:18:04  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
12:18:11  <Celestar> happy new year
12:18:20  <KUDr> you too
12:18:31  <Celestar> hey KUDr, survived the night?
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12:18:54  <KUDr> yes, deving is usually safe enough :)
12:18:58  <Celestar> lol
12:19:03  <Brianetta> Helen was ill last night ):
12:19:05  <Celestar> I almost got hit by a rocket tonight
12:19:09  <Brianetta> We didn't go out or anything
12:19:18  <hylje> :x
12:19:34  <KUDr> Celestar: are you ok?
12:19:47  <Celestar> yeah
12:19:52  <Celestar> I managed to jump into the bushes
12:19:54  <KUDr> can die from shock
12:20:13  <KUDr> but no, you are young
12:20:21  <KUDr> in my case it would be worse
12:20:27  <Celestar> hr hr
12:20:39  <Celestar> actually I'm not too much into fireworks anymore I figure out
12:20:52  <Celestar> reminds me too much of my time in the Air Force
12:21:12  <KUDr> :)
12:21:32  <Celestar> it wasn't that bad a time
12:21:50  <Celestar> but I see no reason to throw around grenade-like things just because of a rollover in a digit
12:22:53  <Celestar> I mean who came up with that braindead system in the first place? 60 seconds a minute, 60 minutes an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 12 months a year?! Com'on give me some metric system :P
12:23:15  <hylje> Celestar: because 60 is more perfect than 10 or 100
12:23:26  <Celestar> hylje: no, 12 would be
12:23:35  <Celestar> 60 is stupid, because you need 60 different symbols
12:23:38  <hylje> 60 is a multiple of 12
12:23:47  <Celestar> hylje: but 7?!
12:23:54  <hylje> that i dunno
12:23:58  <hylje> its some wtf possibly
12:24:08  <Celestar> I mean a prime number as base? :P
12:24:57  <Celestar> how thick can you get?
12:25:08  <Celestar> hylje: but I agree that a duodecimal system would be better.
12:25:08  <hylje> about three meters
12:25:28  <Celestar> but then how would all those boneheads out there count using their fingers? :P
12:25:34  <Smoovious> they had to make it fit testament... if the 'how god made the world' story was in metric, the rest would be
12:25:35  <hylje> they wouldnt
12:26:00  <KUDr> Celestar: hex would be the best
12:26:02  <Celestar> god was a yank *runs*
12:26:10  <Celestar> KUDr: nah, .. too little divisors
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12:26:22  <Celestar> or rather too few
12:26:37  <KUDr> why it s bad?
12:26:51  <Smoovious> could really screw things up and make everything base-11
12:26:55  <Celestar> because you have more divisions that are infinite fractions
12:27:23  <KUDr> hmm
12:27:29  <Celestar> KUDr: in the decimal system, a devision only has a finite result if divisor can be written as 2^a * 5^b with a,b of |N
12:28:07  <Celestar> in duodecimal you would have 2^a + 3^b which gives you more numbers
12:28:08  <Celestar> :)
12:28:16  <Smoovious> true with any base system you use... probably better to just get rid of numbers altogether since they all have their limitations
12:28:19  <Celestar> basically 50%
12:28:42  <KUDr> hmm
12:28:46  <hylje> Smoovious: limitations are a fact, can't get away without em
12:28:53  <hylje> Smoovious: but we can get the least limitations
12:29:07  <Celestar> Descriprion: "dvdbackup is a dvd backup utility" ... really?
12:29:17  <Smoovious> then we should get away from decimals, and just go strictly by fractions
12:29:31  <hylje> fractions of what? ;)
12:29:38  <caladan> true, fractions are well, good
12:29:39  <Celestar> lets go binary :)
12:29:43  <Smoovious> anything
12:29:49  <caladan> but there's still a problem with sqrt()s
12:29:55  <caladan> ok, i can go binary :D
12:30:02  <hylje> Celestar: stating the obvious, especially redundantly ftw
12:30:04  <Celestar> KUDr: I'll go diving into the cbh again :)
12:30:16  <Smoovious> never have that infinite-looping result problem like 1/3 = 33.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333...%
12:30:32  <hylje> its not a real problem
12:30:33  <Celestar> Smoovious: but caladan is right :)
12:30:50  <KUDr> Celestar: ok, i need you to sync it with trunk before i can continue
12:30:50  <caladan> it sould be stored as fraction as long as it cen be, or just in symbolic way
12:31:07  <Celestar> KUDr: don't you wanna do it? I'll be busy with reinstalling for the next 45 minutes
12:31:33  <KUDr> i switched back to scripting :)
12:31:38  <Celestar> KUDr: ok
12:31:38  <KUDr> so you have time
12:31:41  <Celestar> ^^
12:31:52  <Bjarni> heh. Smoovious reminds me of a guy in school. He made a calculation and then he was to say the result in class, he said (number),6(a specific number of times... he counted) and then a 7 as the last digit
12:31:53  <Celestar> how's progress and is yapf working for cbh?
12:32:03  <KUDr> works
12:32:11  <KUDr> with some hacks
12:32:15  <Celestar> excellent
12:32:15  <Bjarni> he thought that something special happened at that location or otherwise he calculator would not have told him :D
12:32:17  <KUDr> read log messages
12:32:24  <Celestar> once everything works, we need to clean the hacks
12:32:37  <Celestar> and get signals on bridge heads to work ^^
12:32:39  <KUDr> no i can't
12:32:47  <KUDr> you call it wrong way
12:33:02  <caladan> wow, that's limiting mind to the thing computers and calculators show you :D
12:33:08  <Celestar> I don't understand?
12:33:09  <KUDr> when vehicle moved already to the next tile
12:33:20  <Celestar> ok
12:33:26  <KUDr> it is different from what it was
12:33:37  <KUDr> therefore the hack in yapf
12:34:09  <KUDr> in worst case i will deal with it in yapf
12:34:21  <Celestar> KUDr: you mean because of the goto?
12:34:23  <KUDr> so don't worry so much
12:34:44  <KUDr> dunno if because of goto
12:34:47  <Celestar> I'm worried about having ugly stuff :)
12:34:58  <KUDr> but simply it moves first then calls pf
12:35:07  <Celestar> but I will check it in a minute or two :)
12:35:15  <KUDr> ok
12:35:15  <Celestar> yeah that's kinda bad :)
12:35:27  <Celestar> back in 5
12:35:36  <Smoovious> now that's just dumb... anyone with any brains would have known it was 2/3
12:36:29  <Bjarni> so I tell one thing about a guy you never met and you are already figuring out how well he did in school in general
12:36:39  <Bjarni> and other stuff that needed brain power
12:36:59  <caladan> oh come on, in poland they made some changes to school system, and kids are getting dumber, really ;]
12:37:23  <caladan> sine and cosine are some kind of magic to them ;]
12:37:24  <Smoovious> it is the small details that say the most about a person... especially his attention to detail
12:37:30  <hylje> there are always dumb people getting higher than they could possibly do
12:37:40  <hylje> its the small (hueg?) WTFs of life
12:37:51  <Zaviori> Heh
12:37:58  <Zaviori> I never understood anything about sin cos or tan
12:38:03  <caladan> you know, but even calculators are getting "smarter" now
12:38:04  <Zaviori> Still scored 10 from math :)
12:38:10  <hylje> caladan: sine and cosine can be magic, but higher level stuff will need to know it
12:38:10  <caladan> how old are you? :D
12:38:51  <Smoovious> they're great for plotting out circles too :D
12:39:19  <caladan> x=asin(t), y=bcos(t) :D
12:39:54  <caladan> we took generator of sine and cosine signal and plugged it to osciloscope, had great time
12:40:44  <Bjarni> you know, the great part about physics is that if you make a mistake, it's usually clear that it's not possible
12:41:10  <caladan> well, if units dont math, its clear :D
12:41:19  <Bjarni> like the time I made a sign error in a calculation of how a car would bounce if it hit a rock it had to go over... after 15 sec, it would have jumped to the moon
12:41:37  <Celestar> back
12:41:45  <Bjarni> from the moon?
12:41:53  <Celestar> 13:35 < Celestar> back in 5
12:41:54  <Bjarni> that was quick
12:41:58  <Celestar> 13:41 < Celestar> back
12:42:02  <Celestar> moon and back in 6 minutes?
12:42:03  <Bjarni> you are late
12:42:16  <Celestar> that's 760.000 km
12:42:24  <Smoovious> :)
12:42:52  <Bjarni> it only takes Savage Garden 5 minutes and 41 sec to go to the moon and back
12:43:06  <Bjarni> you are 19 sec late
12:43:07  <caladan> that's 2111.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 km/s :D
12:43:19  <Celestar> isn't there a simpler way of writing svn diff -r12:13 ?
12:43:22  <caladan> or better 2111 1/9 :D
12:43:47  <Celestar> lol
12:43:47  <stillunknown> caladan: that implies infinite accuracy
12:43:47  <Bjarni> heh
12:44:04  <Celestar> there's no such thing
12:44:08  <Celestar> because of Heisenberg
12:44:17  <caladan> you know, my calculator if i divide that distance by 360 secs shows 2111 1/9
12:44:18  <caladan> :D
12:44:26  <hylje> damn Heisenberg
12:44:30  <Celestar> KUDr: I don't like my "leave bridge" code too much :S
12:44:33  <caladan> yeah, and we got a quant of time
12:44:36  <Celestar> there must be a better way of doing this
12:44:56  <Bjarni> reminds me of a math test I once did. I got a number (say 8. Can't remember and not important) and 1/5, so I wrote 8,2. I got that one wrong because it was 1/5, not ,2 o_O
12:44:58  <hylje> Celestar: there is, but first make it work in a hacky way?
12:45:35  <Celestar> hylje: it does work in a rather hacky way
12:45:38  <Celestar> peter1138: you around?
12:45:46  <peter1138> yes
12:45:49  <peter1138> am now
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12:46:10  <stillunknown> Celestar: has a small bridge map ever been considered, that is linked to the real map on the entry and leave points
12:46:21  <peter1138> KUDr: are you aware of all our new signal bugs?
12:46:34  <Celestar> peter1138: when you coded the bridgeheads the other day, how did you make sure that the pathfinder is called right upon leaving?
12:46:49  <peter1138> hmm?
12:47:24  <Celestar> peter1138: normally, a train leaves the bridge on a straight line, but now it has to make a choice ..
12:47:34  <peter1138> ...
12:47:44  <peter1138> it returns the bits with gts
12:47:46  <peter1138> er
12:47:47  <peter1138> gtts
12:47:52  <stillunknown> has anyone ever considered making bridges not so void?
12:48:10  <Celestar> yeah but the pathfinder isn't called in the first place ..
12:48:22  <peter1138> um
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12:48:35  <Celestar> stillunknown: I don't understand ?
12:48:37  <peter1138> the pathfinder is 'called' by the train or rv controller
12:48:57  <peter1138> if this is not working, your gtts is wrong
12:49:18  <Celestar> the pathfinder isn't called where I want it to I guess
12:49:25  <Celestar> peter1138: you got like 5 minutes?
12:49:29  <peter1138> the pathfinder is only called in the controller
12:49:33  <stillunknown> Celestar: isn't it possible to have a scalable datatype create a small map with all the usual properties?
12:49:49  <peter1138> KUDr: dunno if it's your recent changes, but it i split a line, signals aren't updated
12:50:18  <Celestar> stillunknown: hm ... that sounds not like a bad idea. can you code? :)
12:50:26  <Celestar> actually it sounds like a good idea
12:50:37  <stillunknown> i would use a std::vector in c++, in c i don't know
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12:51:11  <Celestar> peter1138: did we ever think about what stillunknown suggests?
12:51:18  <caladan> huh, what would hold that vector?
12:51:23  <peter1138> KUDr: in some cases the signal state is set incorrectly
12:51:31  <stillunknown> caladan: m1, etc
12:51:43  <stillunknown> for each bridge cell, maybe a struct for each bridge cell
12:51:50  <Celestar> peter1138: could you have a short look at 7705. it mostly works, but something tells me itt is not the Right Thing To Do
12:52:02  <stillunknown> will have to see how it currently works for the map
12:52:56  <Celestar> stillunknown: I think it could theoretically work
12:53:07  <Celestar> stillunknown: the question is, who codes it:)
12:53:35  <Celestar> it's much better than the Stack approach we tried
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12:53:38  <Celestar> much better
12:54:58  <stillunknown> i'll give it a try, because it's in the way of a lot things
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12:55:11  <Celestar> yeah
12:55:21  <peter1138> what was the problem?
12:55:33  <Celestar> stillunknown: basically, each bridge and each tunnel would be an own sub-map, right?
12:55:36  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
12:55:48  <stillunknown> yes, with a pointer at the beginning and end
12:55:57  <peter1138> 7705 looks fucking horrible
12:56:06  <peter1138> what on earth are you doing?
12:56:25  <Celestar> peter1138: testing stuff mostly :)
12:56:51  <peter1138> when i did custom bridge heads, many moons ago, nothing in the controllers needed altering
12:57:08  <peter1138> quite possibly because it was the old style bridges, but... yuck
12:57:14  <Celestar> peter1138: then help please :)
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12:58:11  <peter1138> can't, gotta go offline in a mo
12:58:16  <peter1138> expensive dialup
12:58:28  <peter1138> KUDr: please investigate these signal issues... i will too
12:58:36  <Celestar> peter1138: ok
12:58:42  <Celestar> peter1138: when will you be back at work?
12:59:11  <stillunknown> you have dailup at home?
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12:59:25  <peter1138> tomorrow
12:59:42  <Celestar> peter1138: so will I, see you tomorrow
12:59:56  <peter1138> KUDr: ok, i reverted r7620 and that fixes the problems
13:00:05  <peter1138> and that got into RC2 o_O
13:00:22  <peter1138> Celestar: i'll probably be on later, but i don't have cbh checked out
13:00:25  <peter1138> hmm
13:01:08  <Celestar> peter1138: no problem.
13:01:15  <Celestar> peter1138: I'll go digging
13:01:47  <stillunknown> Celestar: if i try to make bridge maps, will you promise to help, because that's not an easy task?
13:02:01  <stillunknown> i may lack insight into ottd for some things
13:02:01  <peter1138> it appeasrsit appeasr to be downloading
13:02:02  <peter1138> slowly slowly thouhg :/
13:02:33  <peter1138> gah
13:02:42  <peter1138> ^U doesn't work with lag :/
13:03:08  <Celestar> stillunknown: as good as I can. but I will more advise than code, ok :)
13:04:24  <stillunknown> question 1: when a space for a map is allocated, how do you ever acces it with no reference?
13:04:50  <caladan> you must store pointer somewhere
13:04:58  <stillunknown> sorry, i see, global pointer
13:06:10  <caladan> huh, but that ain't good, you need some kind of array to store all there pointers
13:07:09  <stillunknown> the pointer should be in the cells were the bridge start :-)
13:07:31  <caladan> well, next pointer?
13:07:44  <caladan> in that case all cells have to have that pointer
13:07:53  <caladan> 1024x1024x4bytes?
13:08:36  <stillunknown> isn't it possible to have dynamic memory allocation for this sort of thing?
13:08:41  <caladan> it is
13:08:52  <caladan> hmm, in what way?
13:08:55  <KUDr> <peter1138> KUDr: in some cases the signal state is set incorrectly << this is why i need to sync with trunk first
13:09:08  <caladan> if the tile says there's a bride
13:09:13  <caladan> just scan the bridge table
13:09:14  <KUDr> and then i can work on it
13:09:18  <stillunknown> true
13:09:27  <stillunknown> that would be a bool :-)
13:09:35  <caladan> eeer, no?
13:09:44  <caladan> tiles now have flag for being bridge, dont they?
13:10:26  <stillunknown> i do believe so, (goes to the landscape docs)
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13:13:42  <caladan> stillunknown: did you found that flags?
13:13:51  <stillunknown> m5 bit 7
13:13:58  <caladan> ok
13:14:33  <caladan> now, hmm
13:14:56  <caladan> an array bridges, but it would be nice to accelerate search
13:16:39  <stillunknown> cell property would have been great, arrays don't scale
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13:17:07  <caladan> dont know what you mean
13:17:19  <caladan> still that pointer/index?
13:18:22  <stillunknown> it's easier, but large
13:18:38  <caladan> huge, i would say...
13:22:54  <stillunknown> there isn't enough room in the landscape struct to put a lot of information in
13:23:30  <caladan> yes, that is out of question...
13:23:43  <stillunknown> just looking how the length of the bridge is determined without the end cell (i know i saw it once)
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13:25:26  <CIA-1> miham * r7715 /trunk/lang/ (estonian.txt turkish.txt):
13:25:26  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-01 14:24:49
13:25:26  <CIA-1> estonian - 1 deleted, 5 changed by kristjans (6)
13:25:26  <CIA-1> turkish - 1 changed by jnmbk (1)
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13:27:09  <caladan> why do you need that length?
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13:29:31  <caladan> stillunknown: ok, ive got some idea
13:29:44  <stillunknown> spill
13:30:00  <caladan> you spot bridge
13:30:19  <caladan> so, you know whose it is, what type (rail/road), and what dir it goes
13:30:30  <caladan> only way is to do the bridge table
13:30:48  <caladan> but knowiing those 3 things you may reduce searching greatly
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13:31:55  <caladan> so function like FindBridge(whose,type,dir)
13:32:05  <caladan> would have like tree of tables
13:32:18  <caladan> pointing to different player's bridges, then types, then dirs
13:32:42  <stillunknown> i'm trying to find were currently bridge information is kept
13:33:22  <caladan> just in _m[]
13:33:24  <ArmEagle> Any chance we'll be able to build bridges over diagonal rail someday?
13:33:35  <stillunknown> already possible
13:33:39  <ArmEagle> oh..
13:33:48  <caladan> just put bridge flag and draw rail ;-)
13:34:40  <stillunknown> there does need to be some kind of linked list, so that information about the bridge is kept, especially about the map of the bridge
13:35:01  <stillunknown> currently that is dumped as soon building is complete
13:35:12  <pv2b> caladan: bridge flag?
13:35:22  <caladan> yeah, in tile struct
13:35:31  <caladan> i mean from programmers side of view
13:35:36  <caladan> not from user, sorry
13:35:56  <pv2b> ah. right.
13:36:42  <ArmEagle> ah k, so, any chance it will be in the config? :P
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13:37:04  <caladan> well, im not developer, just add some ideas, dont ask me
13:37:31  <caladan> stillunknown: bridge_gui.c:19
13:38:19  <stillunknown> i found that already, i'm looking at vehicles to see how their data is kept
13:40:29  <Celestar> hm
13:40:32  <Celestar> this is illogical
13:41:26  <caladan> hmm?
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13:42:25  <stillunknown> Celestar: do you have some way to dynamicly create room in the map/tile struct?
13:42:41  <Celestar> stillunknown: no, the map and tiles are fixed
13:42:50  <caladan> ah. we agreed that it is impossible
13:42:51  <Celestar> stillunknown: you'd need to allocated a whole new map
13:43:09  <stillunknown> you mean a bridgemap on top of the normal one?
13:43:18  <Celestar> yes
13:43:32  <Celestar> a total seperate entity like the _m[] array
13:43:36  <Celestar> just smaller
13:43:52  <caladan> true, we agreed to that also :D
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13:44:08  <caladan> but now the way to find the right submap
13:44:25  <stillunknown> that's easy, one you find a bridgebit
13:44:32  <stillunknown> you look at the same cell on the other map
13:44:36  <stillunknown> i mean tile
13:44:50  <Bjarni> bbl
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13:45:07  <caladan> that smaller map would be 1xlength
13:45:22  <stillunknown> no
13:45:30  <stillunknown> what celestar sais is:
13:45:38  <stillunknown> make a 512x512 map or whatever
13:45:43  <stillunknown> with the needed info
13:45:53  <caladan> nooo
13:45:59  <caladan> < Celestar> a total seperate entity like the _m[] array
13:46:07  <caladan> and nex line, but smaller
13:46:11  <caladan> a lot smaller
13:46:26  <stillunknown> Celestar> stillunknown: you'd need to allocated a whole new map
13:46:34  <stillunknown> notice the whole
13:46:43  <Celestar> 1xlength
13:46:47  <Celestar> or lengthx1
13:46:54  <caladan> depends on dir
13:47:14  <caladan> ok, let me clear it
13:47:14  <stillunknown> that still doesn't solve the problem of how one map can relate to the other
13:47:30  <caladan> there is
13:47:35  <caladan> you look at _m[]
13:47:42  <caladan> see bit of bridge, the first one
13:48:00  <caladan> search bridge array for that bridge (submap) and somethink like paste it
13:48:12  <caladan> only it has to say what end it is, that's all
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13:50:45  <stillunknown> what happens if there are a lot of bridges, for every action it has to search trough an array, access a lot structs and check if it's the right one
13:51:03  <caladan> and that is what i said some time ago
13:51:11  <caladan> first select the right player
13:51:27  <caladan> it's like 1/n, depends on number of players
13:51:50  <caladan> then select by type - it can reduce by 1/2
13:51:57  <caladan> and then selct by dir
13:52:05  <caladan> now it can reduce by 1/2 too
13:52:44  <caladan> so if there are only two players, and they own the same number of rail and road bridges and they own the same number of x and y bridges, you get 1/8 of things to search
13:53:04  <stillunknown> i get your point
13:53:50  <caladan> so you do map *GetBridgeSubmap(player, dir, type)
13:54:08  <caladan> dir is more common that type, so 1st player, then dir, then type
13:54:21  <caladan> there's also another way
13:54:31  <caladan> lets say, we got a bridge
13:54:36  <caladan> then get it's beggining
13:54:44  <stillunknown> are dynamic arrays possible in C (before i mix it up with c++)?
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13:55:02  <caladan> and we can split map into several regions, like 512x512 into8x8 regions
13:55:09  <caladan> and you get further acceleration
13:55:18  <caladan> dynamic arrays are possible in clean C
13:55:25  <caladan> ask what you need
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13:59:07  <Wolf01> ello
14:01:18  <caladan> stillunknown: i can help you write some dynamic allocation stuff in C
14:01:55  <stillunknown> i'm starting to write some structs, i will paste the basic idea somewhere soon
14:01:59  <caladan> ok
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14:05:25  <Smoovious> subsidiary companies... do I have to control those or will a computer player control them
14:07:01  <stillunknown> caladan: i'm considering using unions for the various directions, etc, but i have concerns about what happens if there is no bridge
14:07:12  <Celestar> KUDr: ping :)
14:07:15  <stillunknown> is there a better approach to this problem?
14:07:25  <caladan> dont know your whole idea
14:07:27  <KUDr> Celestar: pong
14:07:52  <Celestar> I've done some more digging ...
14:08:20  <stillunknown> i'll paste the idew
14:08:21  <caladan> stillunknown why do you need that data for?
14:08:22  <stillunknown> *idea
14:08:23  <caladan> ok
14:08:24  <Celestar> about the "entering" stff
14:08:37  <Celestar> KUDr: I mean r7687
14:08:37  <KUDr> and result?
14:08:50  <Celestar> sec posting diff
14:09:21  <stillunknown> caladan:
14:09:29  <Celestar> I (we) looked at the wrong place
14:09:48  <KUDr> hmm
14:09:49  <Celestar> <= this is against 7686
14:10:10  <Celestar> (it doesn't really turn the vehicle visually, but that is the smallest problem, right?)
14:10:25  <KUDr> id depends
14:10:32  <caladan> stillunknown: we got limited number of players, dont have to do dynamic stuff for that
14:10:36  <Celestar> it MOVES in the right direction ..
14:10:37  <KUDr> i am forking my wc
14:10:52  <Celestar> I wish I had a computer with a working HDD here :S
14:11:05  * Celestar is booting off CD and has all the data on an external USB drive
14:11:17  <stillunknown> caladan: players can enter games, so how would you deal with that?
14:11:38  <caladan> stillunknown: allocate staticly array
14:11:58  <caladan> Bridge* PlayerBridges[16];
14:12:24  <caladan> if no player with id n , then PlayerBridges[n] = NULL;
14:13:29  <caladan> stillunknown: at beggining just fill it with NULLs, then when company is created, you create structure
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14:13:55  <Celestar> let us assume we allow a maximum of 65k bridges
14:14:10  <caladan> i guess that there is no need for that
14:14:12  <Celestar> just put an index into the main array that points to an element in the sub-arrays
14:14:30  <caladan> main you mean tile?
14:14:48  <Celestar> yeah
14:15:05  <Celestar> so you have an array: _bridges_and_tunnels[]
14:15:21  <Celestar> each element is similar to a map array we have now
14:15:23  <caladan> yah, and index to that array would be in Tile?
14:15:52  <Celestar> and in _m[].m2 (for example) we would store the index of _bridges_and_tunnels
14:16:09  <caladan> huh, dont see that
14:16:12  <Celestar> back in 5
14:17:38  <stillunknown> were can 256bits of information be kept in the map?
14:17:57  <stillunknown> ignore that
14:18:02  <caladan> i dont like idea of storing that in _m
14:18:33  <stillunknown> it's 8 bits, but i doubt there is space for that
14:18:39  <Celestar> ok I'll conjure up a drawing
14:18:42  <Celestar> stillunknown: there is
14:18:46  <caladan> ok
14:19:13  <caladan> but we can do fast searching
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14:19:46  <stillunknown> m2 is not empty
14:19:51  <KUDr> Delestar: bridge_cmd.c (1007): ...DirToDiagDir(...     << the best way how to lost information
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14:21:35  <stillunknown> Celestar: or do you propose to reuse all space in m2 with the knowledge that nothing usefull could be there once a bridge is there?
14:21:52  <caladan> not true
14:22:00  <caladan> bridge can be build over rails
14:22:16  <stillunknown> the entry tiles
14:22:26  <stillunknown> are bridgeramps
14:22:38  <stillunknown> they are the only ones that need the information
14:23:03  <KUDr> Celestar: so if understand it correctly, the train gets into wormhole once it enters first ramp and leaves it once it enters the second one. Correct?
14:23:12  <caladan> yes :D
14:23:30  <Wolf01> mmm maybe i found a bug on the nightlies, pressing the "sell all" button in hangars crashes the game (if there is at least one aircraft)... i don't know if happen why i have the planeset, i must try it better
14:23:34  <Celestar> stillunknown: standby
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14:24:26  <Celestar> KUDr: no wait, we did have the problem that the train didn't enter the bridge from the non-straight tracks, right? YOu fixed that in r7687, but the problem was that I fucked up TrainCheckIfLineEnds. this diff is a replacement for r7687
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14:25:10  <KUDr> stillunknown: if you use 16 bit index on the ramp tiles and the rest of bridge info you store elsewhere (array) do it also for tunnels << this would help with signalling stuff
14:25:36  <caladan> true, tunnels and bridges togheter
14:26:19  <KUDr> Celestar: i know, i am diffing it agains 7686, but still..
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14:27:19  <Wolf01> ok, the bug happen also without the aviator set (not planeset as i said before)
14:27:40  <Wolf01> i post it on flipspray
14:28:14  <Celestar> KUDr: but yes, it enters the wormhole once it leaves the bridge ramp tile
14:29:39  <Celestar> stillunknown: caladan: KUDr: peter1138: Darkvater:
14:29:43  <Celestar> what do you think?
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14:30:23  <caladan> that's ok
14:30:42  <caladan> but we must find the right bridge,
14:30:50  <caladan> that idea with index in ramp tile is ok
14:30:56  <Celestar> caladan: that's why the bridge head stores the index :)
14:31:02  <Celestar> the ramp tiles are rather empty :)
14:31:17  <caladan> ok
14:31:19  <stillunknown> which m's should be used?
14:31:20  <caladan> so that's ok
14:31:22  <Celestar> they have about 24 free bits
14:31:28  <caladan> m2 is free
14:31:30  <Celestar> more
14:31:39  <Celestar> not totally free, but we can move stuff off there
14:32:07  <stillunknown> maybe make a concept with just the 8bits in m2?
14:32:23  <Celestar> 8 bits are too little, that allows only 256 bridges.
14:32:35  <Celestar> but the amount of bits doesn't matter
14:32:37  <caladan> right, must be at least 16
14:32:46  <Celestar> I just wanna make sure we talk about the same concept :)
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14:33:07  <kbrooks> so.. hi.
14:33:37  <caladan> ok, we do
14:33:51  <Celestar> hi kbrooks
14:34:56  <stillunknown> Celestar: what if the bridge tile becomes part of the new bridgemap, just copy all the data there and plenty of space can be used
14:35:08  <stillunknown> *ramp
14:35:13  <caladan> no
14:35:18  <caladan> we dont want another copy of
14:35:20  <caladan> map
14:35:29  <caladan> we just allocate space for the tiles that ARE bridges
14:35:29  <Celestar> stillunknown: not needed, we DO have plenty of space
14:35:56  <Celestar> caladan: right, and then we can have bridges (and tunnels) with an arbitrary number of exits
14:36:13  <caladan> Celestar: that's true
14:36:18  <stillunknown> i'm not the qualified to remap the map structure
14:36:41  <Celestar> KUDr: I'm just wondering why the vehicles have the wrong direction on the map
14:36:42  <Celestar> :S
14:36:51  <Celestar> one might think setting v->direction is enough
14:39:22  <Celestar> hmm peter1138
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14:47:35  <caladan> Celestar: even signals in tunnels :-)
14:47:55  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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14:48:37  <caladan> Celestar: and on bridges :D
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14:49:33  <thebozz> are here some kernel guys
14:49:41  <thebozz> i need a help about kernel
14:51:41  <peter1138> hmm
14:51:47  <stillunknown> caladan: is it same/works to use array[]?
14:51:50  <peter1138> KUDr: found the issues
14:52:04  <caladan> caladan: what do you mean?
14:52:08  <KUDr> peter1138: me too
14:52:14  <caladan> stillunknown: what do you mean :D
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14:52:23  <peter1138> oh
14:52:26  <stillunknown> i mean an array with a variable size
14:52:28  <KUDr> but it will not be so easy to fix
14:52:31  <peter1138> well, frankly, your commit was terrible
14:52:37  <KUDr> no
14:52:38  <caladan> stillunknown: hmm, more complicated
14:52:44  <KUDr> only one point i missed
14:52:49  <caladan> stillunknown: have yoy got jabber?
14:52:51  <KUDr> rail compatibility
14:52:56  <KUDr> nothing else
14:53:02  <stillunknown> caladan: no
14:53:05  <caladan> huh...
14:53:09  <caladan> ok, so here
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14:53:32  <caladan> you can use [] operator
14:53:59  <KUDr> Celestar: bridge_cmd.c(1007..1011): this makes train enter wormhole immediatelly once it enters the ramp
14:54:01  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7716 /trunk/pathfind.c: -Revert r7620: Changes introduced more problems than they fixed (and a goto?)
14:54:40  <KUDr> what you have against goto?
14:54:50  <peter1138> it's unnecessary
14:55:04  <KUDr> why do you think so?
14:55:13  <peter1138> because a return's good enough
14:55:19  <KUDr> no
14:55:30  <KUDr> it skips the second part then
14:55:58  <KUDr> for searching in other direction
14:58:29  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7717 /trunk/pathfind.c:
14:58:29  <CIA-1> -Fix (runknown): When following path for signals, don't skip back to the
14:58:29  <CIA-1> previous tile, as for tunnels & bridge ends the entering direction is wrong.
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15:03:04  <Celestar> I love advanced debugging
15:03:06  <Celestar> DEBUG(misc, 0, "bing");
15:03:18  <KUDr> peter1138: r7717: it changed nothing - you move back by just more complicated way
15:04:37  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7718 /trunk/pathfind.c:
15:04:37  <CIA-1> -Fix (runknown): When pathfinding onto a bridge or tunnel end from
15:04:37  <CIA-1> previous tile (but not warping from the opposite end) check the
15:04:37  <CIA-1> enter direction. This fixes signal setting if a rail ends on the top of
15:04:37  <CIA-1> a tunnel end.
15:04:58  <peter1138> KUDr: it changes a lot
15:05:23  <KUDr> peter1138: i was in middle of fixing r7620
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15:05:34  <KUDr> i call it bad syncing
15:05:43  <peter1138> bad syncing? but it's trunk...
15:05:59  <KUDr> yes, but now did even more changes
15:06:06  <KUDr> we should sync better
15:06:18  <KUDr> me and you
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15:07:48  <KUDr> <peter1138> KUDr: it changes a lot << what exactly? the 'tile' will have the same value when you move in opposite direction as if you take the old one
15:07:49  <peter1138> i think that's called "communicate"
15:08:02  <KUDr> ok
15:08:06  <peter1138> KUDr: not for bridges/tunnels
15:08:19  <peter1138> trust me, that little change fixes a long standing signal bug
15:09:36  <Celestar> which one?
15:09:53  <Celestar> peter1138: have you looked at the pdf?
15:09:56  <KUDr> tile += TileOffsByDiagDir(direction); and then 	tile += TileOffsByDiagDir(reversed_direction);
15:10:03  <KUDr> hmm
15:10:07  <KUDr> i lost you
15:10:54  <peter1138> you've missed the warp
15:10:59  <peter1138> tile_org = tile
15:11:04  <peter1138> if warping tile = end of tunnel/bridge
15:11:11  <KUDr> so first you jump over the bridge/tunnel and move one tile back?
15:11:11  <peter1138> tile += blah direction
15:11:19  <peter1138> yes, we do
15:11:33  <peter1138> before, it jumped back to the tunnel end
15:11:37  <peter1138> (or bridge)
15:11:44  <peter1138> and then the direction was wrong for that end of the bridge
15:11:46  <peter1138> so... it stopped
15:12:38  <KUDr> hmmm
15:12:40  <peter1138> better go, back later. i will reinstate the railtype check
15:12:57  <Celestar> hmmm
15:13:27  <Celestar> my wagons are not following the engines :o
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15:13:50  <hylje> they are going around at random?
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15:14:59  <Celestar> nah, the game asserts  before that can happen :P
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15:22:18  <Celestar> hm ... KUDr  ..
15:23:11  <KUDr> what?
15:23:28  <KUDr> i am still trying to understand you patch
15:23:41  <KUDr> and wasn't successful
15:24:11  <Celestar> hm ... ok let me conjure something up and post it again, k?
15:24:37  <KUDr> and please remove the DirToDiagDir
15:24:59  <Celestar> which one?
15:25:01  <KUDr> it doeasn't behave properly in that case
15:25:13  <Celestar> why not?
15:25:21  <KUDr> all of them :) (there is only one in your diff)
15:25:50  <Celestar> (why does it not behave properly?)
15:25:57  <KUDr> 8 directions to 4 diag directions will not do the same as TrackdirToExitDir
15:26:07  <KUDr> you are comparing diagdirs
15:26:24  <KUDr> one of them has just lost info
15:26:32  <Celestar> if (IsTileType(tile, MP_TUNNEL) && DiagDirToDir(GetTunnelDirection(tile)) == v->direction) return true;
15:26:33  <KUDr> for non-diag directions
15:26:35  <Celestar> you mean this?
15:26:46  <KUDr> no
15:26:49  <KUDr> the opposite
15:26:56  <KUDr> 1007 i think
15:26:57  <Celestar> oh the v->direction ==
15:27:05  <Celestar> er wait
15:27:06  <Celestar> yeas
15:27:26  <Celestar> so compare dirs and not diagdirs?
15:27:50  <KUDr> i dunno what it will do then
15:28:08  <KUDr> but it doesnt lose the information
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15:28:39  <KUDr> by my understanding the train enters wormhole when it enters the ramp
15:28:48  <KUDr> which i whink is wrong
15:28:56  <KUDr> think
15:29:07  <Celestar> no it enters the wormhole when it leaves the ramp
15:29:39  <KUDr> how?
15:30:04  <KUDr> on the ramp it can have one of 3 dirs
15:30:44  <KUDr> static uint32 VehicleEnter_Railway_Bridge(Vehicle *v, TileIndex tile, int x, int y) << this is triggered when it enters or moves on ramp
15:30:57  <Celestar> yes.
15:31:06  <Celestar> that's why you have the check for the coordinates
15:31:06  <ArmEagle> hmm, can i disabled the 'tab'->fast forward button? It conflicts with Alt-Tabbing.
15:31:10  <Celestar>
15:31:11  <KUDr> and if '	if (DirToDiagDir(v->direction) == ReverseDiagDir(dir)) {' succeedes
15:31:28  <KUDr> aha
15:31:34  <Celestar> KUDr: then it leaves the wormhole right away
15:31:45  <KUDr> hmm
15:31:49  <KUDr> is it good?
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15:32:10  <Celestar> KUDr: I don't like the wormhole idea in general, but ok :)
15:33:07  <KUDr> wormhole is a good solution for now (without extra bridges array)
15:33:14  <KUDr> but i am getting lost
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15:34:41  <KUDr> i get it
15:34:47  <Celestar> now what? :)
15:34:57  <KUDr> i mixed up those if and else blocks
15:35:16  <KUDr> i am missing comments :)
15:35:24  <Celestar> I haven't added them yet
15:35:27  <RichK67> hi
15:35:29  * Celestar will do this now
15:35:32  <Celestar> hey ho RichK67
15:35:36  <KUDr> hi
15:35:41  <Celestar> RichK67: do you have any sketches for the intercont airport?
15:35:48  <RichK67> sketches?
15:37:39  <RichK67> i drew a mini-plan of it, but that was a long time ago, and mostly i just used the international, and expanded it
15:37:59  <Celestar> RichK67: ok
15:38:05  *** MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:39:33  <RichK67> i do need a bit of help with compiling atm... ive just started using VS for work, and want to get OTTD compiling with it... but its complaining about png.h, zlib.h, and the font thingy not being found... where do i tell it where to find them (i have png and zlib on my system elsewhere)
15:39:37  <caladan> so how these wormholes will work?
15:40:07  <caladan> with bridges?
15:40:34  <Celestar> caladan: that's how they work now
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15:42:25  <KUDr> Celestar: 1007: 'if (TrackdirToExitDir(GetVehicleTrackdir(v)) == ReverseDiagDir(dir)) {'
15:42:34  <KUDr> this should work
15:46:06  <Celestar> KUDr: standby, I'm busy with the comments :)
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15:49:56  <Celestar> KUDr: <= I hope this makes it more clear
15:50:18  <RichK67> anyone here compile nightly using VS??
15:50:25  <Celestar> ugh
15:50:28  <Celestar> windows :P
15:50:53  <RichK67> ho ho so original
15:51:27  <KUDr> Celestar: +	if (v->direction == DiagDirToDir(ReverseDiagDir(dir))) {
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15:51:44  <KUDr> this will not work for side enter i guess
15:52:14  <Celestar> there is no "side enter" from the bridge body
15:52:14  <Celestar> :)
15:52:26  <Celestar> the bridge is always straight
15:52:43  <KUDr> also zero lenght?
15:53:48  <Celestar> hm ...
15:53:57  <Celestar> this is one super-special case I'm still worried about :)
15:54:20  * Celestar constructs another special case
15:54:35  <Celestar> test case
15:56:31  <Celestar> KUDr: you mean this?
15:56:36  <Celestar>
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15:57:15  <Celestar> KUDr: but that case works
15:57:30  <KUDr> yes, kind of
15:57:34  <KUDr> ok
15:57:39  <KUDr> then it is good
15:57:50  <Celestar> anyone who builds this needs to be shot anyway :S
15:57:56  <KUDr> probably there is very short wormhole
15:58:00  <Celestar> peter1138: please respond
15:58:05  <KUDr> so it will work
15:58:07  <Celestar> KUDr: it's a zero-length wormhole :)
15:58:16  <KUDr> not zero
15:58:19  <KUDr> 1/16
15:58:27  <Celestar> but then again, how do you measure the length of something that is in hyperspace :P
15:58:37  <Celestar> lets see
15:58:54  <KUDr> as distance between entry/exit in our space
16:00:36  <Celestar> dbg: [misc] Entering wormhole at x: 826, y 881
16:00:37  <Celestar> dbg: [misc] Departing wormhole at x: 827, y 880
16:00:40  <Celestar> correct :)
16:01:18  <KUDr> ok
16:01:24  <KUDr> then i understand :)
16:02:21  <Celestar> I just don't know why the vehicles don't turn
16:02:30  <Celestar> they move sideways over the bridge
16:02:44  <KUDr> i had that problem too
16:02:51  <KUDr> don't worry
16:02:59  <KUDr> we'll solve it
16:03:09  <Celestar> true
16:03:16  <Celestar> but are you ok with that stuff now?
16:03:21  <KUDr> yes
16:03:23  <KUDr> i like it
16:03:40  <KUDr> we should roll back and start again from this point
16:03:45  <Celestar> should I?
16:03:52  <KUDr> why not?
16:03:57  <KUDr> all is in svn
16:04:01  * Celestar goes reading changelog
16:04:43  <KUDr> we can merge it back step by step after reviewing
16:04:51  <Celestar> you're right, I'll go rolling back to 7686 and apply that diff.
16:05:00  <KUDr> ok
16:05:17  <KUDr> then i will apply my changes to vehicle dir
16:05:25  <KUDr> and then PF and so on
16:06:26  <caladan> is anyone here responsible for bugs? i sent registration form yesterday and did not get mail... checked spam folder too
16:06:26  <Celestar> good :)
16:06:34  <Celestar> caladan: ask MiHaMiX
16:06:42  <Celestar> KUDr: cool stuff. want some test games? :)
16:06:49  <caladan> ok
16:06:55  <Celestar> WTF?
16:07:10  <KUDr> i make them on the fly
16:07:22  <ArmEagle> heh that's funny. For windows (win32_v.c) it prevents FF on alt-tab. No such check in sdl_v.c though
16:07:24  <CIA-1> celestar * r7719 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (13 files in 2 dirs): [cbh] - Codechange: KUDr and I have decided that our developemnt efforts went in the wrong direction, so revert all changes from 7686 onwards
16:07:25  <Celestar> KUDr: great.
16:07:44  <KUDr> :)
16:08:03  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branches/custombridgeheads]> svnversion .
16:08:03  <Celestar> 7719
16:08:03  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branches/custombridgeheads]> svn diff -r7686:HEAD
16:08:07  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branches/custombridgeheads]>
16:08:26  <ArmEagle> so.. i simply added a check that the modstate is 'KMOD_NONE' and things seem to work.
16:09:55  <ArmEagle> now, i guess a patch has to be made against cvs.. but idon't really feel like going trough all that for just a half-line change
16:10:04  <Celestar> KUDr: there you go
16:10:06  <CIA-1> celestar * r7720 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (bridge_cmd.c train_cmd.c): [cbh] - Fix: Trains can now access bridges from, and depart bridge onto, non X- and Y-direction Tracks.
16:10:08  <MiHaMiX> caladan: PM me with the details please
16:10:23  <Celestar> MiHaMiX is always there when you need him
16:10:32  <KUDr> ok
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16:12:04  <RichK67> ping Darkvater
16:12:05  <Celestar> KUDr: I've some assert when a train drives onto a complex bridgehead from a bridge in yapf, but I guess one of your fixes does that
16:12:09  <Celestar> Darkvater is sleeping
16:12:16  <RichK67> ah ok
16:12:26  <KUDr> yes
16:12:39  <KUDr> i must look into that new code again
16:12:45  <Celestar> sorry :)
16:12:47  <KUDr> it will take me some while
16:12:59  <Celestar> I'll have a look at signals on bridgeheads :)
16:13:08  <KUDr> huh
16:13:25  <Celestar> nah not now, but I think with all the stuff in place, it should be possible, right?
16:13:38  <KUDr> yes
16:13:47  <KUDr> should work
16:15:28  <ArmEagle> ah, i could put it in flyspray..
16:16:27  <Celestar> KUDr: shall I sync from trunk now?
16:16:44  <RichK67> anyone know where i get dmksctrl.h??
16:17:19  <glx> RichK67: disable directx for mingw
16:17:32  <RichK67> im compiling with VS
16:17:49  <glx> you have dx sdk ?
16:18:01  <RichK67> dunno
16:18:21  <glx> follow wiki
16:19:15  <RichK67> i would, but as far as i can see there aint any VS info
16:19:49  <glx> which version?
16:20:26  <RichK67> ah.. there is info in the express version... ill be back
16:21:21  <KUDr> Celestar: yes, goot time for the sync
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16:21:48  <KUDr> there are peter1138's changes that we will need
16:26:13  <Celestar> yeah
16:26:20  <Celestar> and some conflict in town_cmd.c
16:26:21  <Celestar> fixing
16:29:15  <Celestar> compiling
16:29:17  <KUDr> ok
16:29:29  <Celestar> more conflitcs
16:30:19  <Celestar> fixing
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16:31:01  <Celestar> committing
16:31:08  <Celestar> back in 10
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16:31:25  <CIA-1> celestar * r7721 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (83 files in 10 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with 7607:7720 from trunk
16:31:47  <ArmEagle> well, first work i've done on OpenTTD:  :P
16:32:25  <dh2k3> anybody know where I can find the UK gated crossing for OTTD?
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16:34:47  <Celestar> bah
16:34:59  <Celestar> guys can we please reverse the output of TrainCheckIfLineEnds?
16:35:08  <Celestar> it doesn't make sense to return false if the line ends :S
16:35:50  <RichK67> ping glx
16:35:57  <glx> RichK67: pong
16:36:30  <RichK67> hi - about the directx sdk... wiki says v8.1 (very old)... what version is OK?
16:36:47  <Celestar> 9.0c or something
16:36:48  <Sacro> happy new year RichK67
16:37:10  <RichK67> hi sacro... HNY
16:37:55  <glx> RichK67: I use the latest as in latest available when I installed it :) (so August 2006) but a newer should be ok too
16:38:27  <Celestar> in stalling opensuse 10.2 via DSL is kinda slow
16:39:12  <RichK67> okies - only 440Mb download...
16:40:39  <Celestar> lol
16:40:42  <Celestar> long live MS
16:40:52  <Celestar> a stupid SDK is half a gig :S
16:41:15  <glx> and you need more than one :)
16:41:21  <Celestar> no I don't
16:41:22  <Celestar> :)
16:41:32  <Celestar> YOU do
16:42:11  <MiHaMiX>
16:42:13  <MiHaMiX> :D
16:42:58  <Sacro> :o impressive
16:43:01  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: nice find
16:43:26  <Celestar> lol
16:44:51  <Celestar> people need things to do
16:46:22  <Celestar> I wonder why any sane person would code gecko so that it collapses a container if it exceeds 18 km :S
16:47:16  <caladan> maybe it's some power of 2 in pixels or something :D
16:47:17  <RichK67> bbl
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16:47:39  <Celestar> caladan: lol
17:00:53  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:02:26  <Celestar> ok I need to go
17:02:28  <Celestar> KUDr: have fun
17:02:31  <Celestar> :)
17:02:41  <KUDr> ok
17:04:17  *** Jango [] has joined #openttd
17:06:12  <CIA-1> miham * r7722 /trunk/lang/unfinished/traditional_chinese.txt: [Translations] Added new translation: traditional chinese
17:06:36  <dh2k3> anybody know where I can find the UK gated crossing for OTTD?
17:07:01  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
17:09:13  <Sacro> grfcrawler?
17:11:34  <dh2k3> well that worked
17:12:52  <Sacro>
17:13:05  <dh2k3> found it
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17:35:02  <Mizipzor> hi, after ive compiled openttd on gentoo and placed the graphic files in the data folder, i try to run it by typing just "openttd" in console... but nothing happens... not even an error message... whats wrong?
17:37:35  <Maedhros> have you got the "dedicated" USE flag enabled
17:38:24  <Maedhros> ...being a question, that should have ended with a question mark ;)
17:39:32  <caladan> dedicated makes server
17:39:42  <caladan> so turn it off if you want to play normal game
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17:42:23  <Mizipzor> [ebuild   R   ] games-simulation/openttd-0.4.8  USE="zlib -alsa -debug -dedicated -png -scenarios -timidity" 0 kB
17:42:27  <Mizipzor> doesnt look like it
17:42:42  <caladan> maybe you did overwrite one file you shouldnt?
17:44:25  <Maedhros> hmm. can you try starting it with "openttd -d driver=9" please?
17:44:37  <Mizipzor> caladan, hmm... well, i did just move the stuff in the /data folder that was supposed to go there... maybe i overwrote something there
17:45:52  <caladan> in windows it screws up game, segfault, may be here too
17:45:55  <caladan> emerge it once again
17:46:09  <caladan> and i advise using one of newer wersions
17:46:26  <caladan> like 0.5.0rc2 - you will also do some testing
17:46:27  <caladan> :D
17:46:35  <caladan> just unpack, configure, make
17:46:47  <caladan> and for there data dir is in the dir you unpacked to
17:47:25  <Mizipzor> Maedhros, it fails saying: no avaliable video device
17:47:49  <Mizipzor> caladan, in gentoo, i like to just type 'emerge'... its easy, and im quite new to linux :p
17:48:14  <caladan> Mizipzor: i have gentoo too, and i still use make and so one quite often :P
17:48:29  <Maedhros> Mizipzor: can you try re-emerging sdl? i think this happened to someone else and that fixed it...
17:49:11  <Mizipzor> Maedhros, im reemerging now
17:49:34  <caladan> Mizipzor: but with sdl maybe..
17:50:20  <Mizipzor> caladan, sdl with sdl? what? :p
17:50:26  <Mizipzor> i ran "emerge libsdl
17:50:28  <Mizipzor> "
17:51:05  <caladan> ok, thought you were saying about reemerging just openttd
17:51:31  <Mizipzor> hehe ok :)
17:51:56  <Mizipzor> but i rather stay with this version, its labeled as "stable" after all...
17:52:45  <caladan> 0.5.0rc1 works well, i;ve tried it couple of times
17:52:53  <caladan> and many new features :D
17:53:07  <Digitalfox> Isn't there any newgrf that modifies the titles?? I use the Infra Trees.. But i also wanted to have a new set of titles.. :|
17:53:10  <Mizipzor> what are the new features?
17:53:31  <caladan> like Electric Rails
17:53:38  <caladan> More airports
17:53:51  <caladan> New land generator
17:54:25  <hylje> liek stuff we've had in the trunk for ages
17:54:49  <caladan> yeah, well tested
17:55:06  <Mizipzor> hmm... maybe i should try it out then
17:56:58  <Tuzlo> Does the Autorenew vehicles patch work? I have vehicles that are a year past their age and are not getting replaced.
17:57:38  <Noldo> Tuzlo: they never visit a depot?
17:58:39  <ArmEagle> Tuzlo yeah i just noticed a bus that wasn't being replaced either. Just sent it to a depot manually.
17:59:04  <ArmEagle> ...hmm and forgot to send it out again for years :)
17:59:43  <Mizipzor> caladan, i downloaded the latest source, unpacked it to a folder, entered that folder... and now what? "make"?
18:00:16  <Tuzlo> noldo they do every 105 days
18:00:37  <Maedhros> ArmEagle: i think you can ctrl + click on the depot button and it just go to be serviced rather than stop :)
18:00:58  <ArmEagle> ah, good tip :)
18:00:58  <Maedhros> it _will_ just go...
18:01:05  <caladan> ./configure first
18:01:12  <Noldo> Tuzlo: then it does not work
18:01:29  <Mizipzor> caladan, ok, running it now
18:01:42  <caladan> Mizipzor: when it is completed, do make
18:01:53  <ArmEagle> heh i've got traisn here with 0% reliability.. hmm
18:01:58  <caladan> Mizipzor: then find dir data in that dir
18:02:06  <caladan> Mizipzor: and copy right files
18:02:07  <Mizipzor> caladan, roger... thanks for the help :) hold your thumbs it works now
18:02:13  <caladan> it should :-)
18:02:19  <caladan> Mizipzor: Then just ./openttd
18:02:22  <Tuzlo> hmmm, I thinkit was the path to the depots
18:02:29  <Mizipzor> caladan, ok... so the built output is in the same directory as the source?
18:02:41  <ArmEagle> so i think it can happen that some vehicles/trains never go find a depot.
18:03:20  <caladan> Mizipzor: yes
18:03:28  <Mizipzor> caladan, i see
18:03:40  <caladan> Mizipzor: dont install it, just run from that dir, so you can delete it whole if you need
18:03:48  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:04:17  <Mizipzor> caladan, someone should start making ebuilds for openttd :p newest one in portage is 0.4.8
18:04:36  <caladan> Mizipzor: im still waiting for someone to do that :D
18:05:03  <Mizipzor> caladan, if i got the time and ebuilds arent to hard... i think ill give it a shot
18:05:09  * Maedhros will try and make one in a little while
18:05:24  <Mizipzor> Maedhros, good thinking :)
18:05:45  <caladan> I know it's not hard, but I hardly have time for myself :/
18:06:04  <ArmEagle> hmm i give the train a service order, and seconds later the order is gone..  though it doesn't help there's no depot near the 2 stations it travels between
18:06:27  <peter1138> backness
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18:11:19  <peter1138> KUDr: if signals can't travel through incompatible railtypes, we need to update the signals when converting railtypes
18:11:43  <KUDr> yes i realized that
18:11:55  <peter1138> this poses a problem, because updating the signals will not the traverse between the old and new railtype...
18:12:13  <peter1138> i'm wondering if we have to do an update signals on each and every tile
18:12:31  <KUDr> but the pathfinding must be run from the next tiles(not from that one that just got converted)
18:12:44  <peter1138> yes
18:12:51  <peter1138> well, both, really
18:12:54  <KUDr> or there was another way
18:12:58  <KUDr> i had just done
18:13:15  <KUDr> remember in the PF struct what was the origin
18:13:43  <KUDr> and don't test the rail types in this origin tile/exitdir
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18:13:59  <KUDr> this was much simpler
18:14:11  <peter1138> will that work for converting a whole load of tiles at once?
18:14:21  <peter1138> hmm
18:14:23  <Mizipzor> nope... didnt work even when i built it from the latest source
18:14:31  <Mizipzor> but it looks like somethings wrong with sdl
18:14:31  <CIA-1> miham * r7723 /trunk/lang/ (german.txt slovak.txt unfinished/greek.txt):
18:14:31  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-01 19:13:54
18:14:31  <CIA-1> german - 1 changed by moewe2 (1)
18:14:31  <CIA-1> greek - 63 changed by gonik (63)
18:14:31  <CIA-1> slovak - 3 fixed, 4 changed by lengyel (7)
18:14:55  <KUDr> hmm
18:14:59  <KUDr> it depends
18:15:30  <Mizipzor> can someone help me out here?
18:15:32  <KUDr> we must call update for all area edge tiles probably
18:15:52  <peter1138> KUDr: and probably all in the area too
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18:16:03  <KUDr> aha
18:16:04  <KUDr> yes
18:16:07  <peter1138> for example, if you convert a block with a train in the middle, that'll be left as it was
18:16:11  <KUDr> you are right
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18:17:31  <peter1138> mmm, cpu invtensive :D
18:17:31  <peter1138> and damn, laggy
18:17:51  <peter1138> my connection that is
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18:21:47  <caladan> Mizipzor: try running it ./openttd -v sdl
18:22:35  <caladan> Mizipzor: Thou probably wrong with sdl still
18:22:52  <Mizipzor> caladan, unable to load driver sdl
18:23:06  <Mizipzor> caladan, looks like it dont know i got sdl installed
18:23:20  <Mizipzor> caladan, isnt it the package "libsdl"? do i need anything more?
18:23:33  <Digitalfox> Has anuone saw this newgrf for OpenTTD 32 or use it?? Does it worht it ?
18:24:17  <caladan> Mizipzor: wait a sec
18:24:22  <Mizipzor> caladan, kk :)
18:24:39  <Digitalfox> OpenTTD 32bpp
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18:25:18  <Digitalfox> It seems the Russian Team is doing a lot of newgrf's wor 32bpp version
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18:25:20  <caladan> Mizipzor: have you got sdl-gfx installed?
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18:26:04  <Mizipzor> caladan, no i didnt have that one... emerging it now
18:26:13  <caladan> Mizipzor: stop...
18:26:13  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7724 /branches/custombridgeheads/bridge_cmd.c: [cbh] - Codechange: cbh tile edge detection changed (using one if instead of switch) when entering the bridge wormhole
18:26:26  <caladan> Mizipzor: show me USE flags for sdl
18:26:59  <caladan> Mizipzor: Ive got these: X, alsa, arts, opengl and xv
18:27:10  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7725 /branches/custombridgeheads/bridge_cmd.c: [cbh] - Fix: the vehicle image now gets updated when train enters the bridge wormhole from cbh
18:27:52  <Mizipzor> caladan, ill send them in pm if its oook
18:28:35  <peter1138> Digitalfox: which is nice, as newgrf has no 32bpp support at all
18:29:17  <Smoovious> for YAPF and PBS ... I only have to have YAPF disabled for trains? it is ok to keep it enabled for ships and road vehicles? (MiniN)
18:38:28  <Born_Acorn> Those crazy Russians.
18:38:40  <caladan> hmmm>>
18:38:53  <Digitalfox> So how does it work peter?? So if this newgrf they have posted in grfcrawler is supostly to OpenTTD version 32bpp, it doesn't work even with a compiled version of branch 32bpp??
18:38:57  <Born_Acorn> Next we'll be having the GRF files for the 128bit version of Windows
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18:39:54  <Rubidium> KUDr: YAPF asserts (again) in cbh, is that known?
18:40:17  <vsz> hi. I would like to ask a question.. how am I able to specify fonts in the openttd.cfg?
18:40:32  <peter1138> oh, speaking of yapf
18:40:33  <vsz> I could'nt find any help in the manual or wiki
18:40:33  <Rubidium> in openttd.cfg
18:40:41  <peter1138> i keep getting some odd pathfinding going on with it
18:40:50  <peter1138> possibly related to the bridge stuff, i guess
18:41:12  <Rubidium> vsz: there is a small_font, medium_font and large_font
18:41:35  <vsz> Rubidium: ok, I see it. But what am I supposed to write there?
18:41:37  <Born_Acorn>
18:42:13  <Rubidium> the name of the font
18:42:20  <Rubidium> like Tahoma
18:42:52  <vsz> just like under what name is it installad?
18:43:04  <Rubidium> yes
18:43:20  *** Mucht_ is now known as Mucht
18:44:06  <vsz> ok, thanks a lot! It works now :)
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18:49:09  <vsz> hm.. just another question.. is it planned for OpenTTD to support the UK Renewal Industries set (the one featuring supply&demand)?
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18:50:09  <Rubidium> yes, though long-termish
18:54:21  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7726 /trunk/depot_gui.c: -Fix (r7622, FS#497): segmentation fault on pressing the 'sell all airplanes'.
18:55:07  <vsz> ok.. a final question: as a newbie regarding to the development of OTTD (and so unfamiliar with the code sharing/publishing/rewriting etc.), what's the area in which I could do the most for the project?
18:55:34  <KUDr> <Rubidium> KUDr: YAPF asserts (again) in cbh, is that known? << yes it is 'controlled regression' << we rolled back
18:55:50  <Rubidium> ok
19:02:54  <blathijs> Controlled Regression?
19:06:20  <Rubidium> vsz: that is a good question
19:06:30  <vsz> thanks :)
19:06:50  <KUDr> yes, it was choosen to roll back so fixed bugs reappeared as a consequence
19:07:05  <Rubidium> first you should do something you are interested in yourself :)
19:07:12  <KUDr> blathijs: ^^
19:07:57  <vsz> hm.. just playing it and reporting bugs?
19:08:25  <Rubidium> well, trying to fix the bug yourself would be favorable :)
19:08:38  <Noldo> vsz: I would personally like to see gpl free graphics, unfortunately I'm not very able in the artistic area
19:08:57  <vsz> I'm interested in coding too, I just can't get it how the whole procedure of code rewriting goes..
19:09:30  <caladan> vsz: read some of the code, it's quite complicated, so get used to it
19:09:43  <vsz> I can't draw good enough to help in that area
19:10:34  <vsz> ..and how could I avoid edit confilcts while coding?
19:11:04  <caladan> vsz: you know what diff is>
19:11:12  <Rubidium> not (well working on something nobody else is working on)
19:11:28  <caladan> That's the best rule, really :D
19:12:43  <blathijs> vsz: We use svn for our code management, which solves, or at least guides, most editing conflicts
19:12:56  <vsz> so the first step should be to try to compile and build the whola game
19:13:22  <blathijs> that would be a good start, yes :-)
19:13:32  <caladan> well, these steps are like 5 commands :D
19:13:47  <Rubidium> only 3 :)
19:13:50  <vsz> I never used svn, so I'll stick at bug reporing and code wieving until I'll get some grasp what to do
19:13:52  <caladan> depdends :D
19:13:58  <Rubidium> svn co svn:// && cd trunk && make
19:14:11  <caladan> and config?
19:14:35  <Rubidium> will be made automatically (at least now it does get made automatically)
19:14:41  <caladan> by make?
19:14:58  <Rubidium> why not?
19:15:13  <caladan> well, ok, I'm not used to doing so :-)
19:15:44  <Rubidium> ok, it's not the nicest way :)
19:16:05  <caladan> standard way is tar xvjf, ./configure and make
19:16:26  <Rubidium> that will be the case for OTTD in the future too :)
19:16:27  <caladan> so that's what im used to
19:16:31  <vsz> hm.. is there a tutorial for this? I have C coding skillz, but nearly no software engineering&managing skills.. so I'm alwasy stuchk when facing a large project
19:16:46  <Digitalfox> wiki
19:16:47  <caladan> vsz: try writing some small things
19:17:13  <Rubidium> (hopelessly outdated on a lot of points though)
19:17:15  <vsz> oops, sorry for my spelling
19:19:04  <caladan> is there something to be set, for make returns misc_gui.c:1189: error: size of array `a' is negative
19:19:27  <Mizipzor> i was wondering something... in some version of openttd, there are trains with wagons that have a speed limit... and can take a variety of cargos. one wagon can take both iron ore and coal. but one of my stations are so close to both kinds of mines so there are both coal and iron at the station... my question then is: how can i tell the train which type of goods its supposed to take?
19:20:20  <Rubidium> caladan (who's compiling for x64 :)): window.h, increase WINDOW_CUSTOM_SIZE to something like 120
19:20:32  <caladan> ah, thx
19:21:04  <caladan> but in 0.5.0rc1 it was ok, and in 0.5.0rc2 not...
19:21:31  <vsz> Mizipzor: I think wagons must be refitted to carry one kind of cargo
19:21:31  <Rubidium> Mizipzor: a wagon is 'initialized' with only one type and you can refit that to the required type
19:22:03  <Rubidium> caladan: hmm, that part got into rc2? (Darkvater?)
19:22:20  <caladan> Rubidium: im checking now...
19:22:26  <Mizipzor> i looked for some kind of refit button but i didnt find any... am i blind or am i just looking in the wrong places?
19:23:05  <Rubidium> caladan: I didn't think the patch that caused this 'bug' made it into rc2, but apparently it did
19:23:23  <Rubidium> Mizipzor: train in depot, the button with boxes
19:23:25  <caladan> i may be, wroong, wait, i check it
19:23:40  <Rubidium> Mizipzor: of the train window
19:24:06  <Mizipzor> Rubidium, ok... ill look for it :)
19:24:16  <vsz> it might seem a stupid question, but is there a chance to make 16 sprites for the vehicles instead of 8, for smoother turning in curves?
19:24:26  <caladan> Rubidium: my wrong, it works
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19:27:41  <Rubidium> vsz: technically it is possible, but don't know whether it is wanted (though 32bpp might want it)
19:28:43  <vsz> yes, and there are a lot of newgrf files, mainly vehicle sets which will be unsupported :(
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19:34:14  <Digitalfox> Well at some point with OpenTTD Newgrf 32bpp it will hav to update the grf format..
19:34:27  <Digitalfox> at least a little
19:34:47  <Digitalfox> For support of bigger sprites and more sprites
19:35:49  <vsz> wouldn't it need a new engine? I see those beautiful 3D vehicles, and instead of a full 3d engine they only will be made into 8 sprites :(
19:35:56  <Gonozal_VIII> keeping support for less sprites shouldn't be that hard, just use the same sprites twice
19:36:54  <Rubidium> 32bpp still uses sprites
19:37:16  <Digitalfox> Is darvater around?
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19:37:29  <Digitalfox> ops.. Darkvater
19:37:57  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7727 /trunk/video/sdl_v.c: -Fix (FS#498): sometimes ALT-TAB could trigger the fast forward.
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19:42:30  <vsz> wow, should I post it to sourceforge?: when locking windows to be visible even after pressing <del>, if I shrink the main window to a low resolution in windowed mode, after restoring the game window to a hinger resolution the locked windows will be halfway out of the upper left corner, and I'll be unable to close them. (they are protected against <del> and I can't reach the X button)
19:43:22  <vsz> and if it's the "save game" window, I'll be unable to save the game and I'll need to close and restart the game
19:44:06  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7728 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: [YAPF] added some YAPF debug messages plus 2 new files (string class)
19:45:39  <vsz> It should not be so hard to fix. Only if I were more comfortable with svn! I would fix it myself, by unlocking ll the windows out of the bounds of the main window.. I think before this I should download svn and play with it a litte ... :D
19:46:06  <Rubidium> svn is only the way to get the source and keep it up-to-date with trunk
19:46:21  <Eddi|zuHause> vsz: i think the proper solution would be to prevent windows from ever moving behind the main toolbar
19:46:53  <PandaMojo> Can't you do (ctrl/shift/alt) + del ?
19:47:08  <Born_Acorn> [19:36:07] <vsz> wouldn't it need a new engine? I see those beautiful 3D vehicles, and instead of a full 3d engine they only will be made into 8 sprites :( <-- It won't be a full 3d engine
19:47:08  <vsz> so compliling and building should be still done in VS?
19:47:20  <PandaMojo> (I can't remember the right combo)
19:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> vsz: as a workaround, if you got a high resolution, you can change the setting how to align the main toolbar (left/middle/right)
19:48:13  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:48:19  <vsz> Born_Acorn: that was I saying...
19:49:06  <Born_Acorn> It most likely won't be just 8 sprites either.
19:50:20  <vsz> Eddi|zuHause: it won't help. Not only the toolbar is blocking it, but it might be outside of the main window.
19:52:11  <vsz> so the upper-left corner of the windows should be prevented to leave the main window
19:52:40  <vsz> not olny upwards at the toolbar, but leftwards too
19:54:54  <ArmEagle> shift-del seems to work here
19:57:16  <vsz> ArmEagle: oops, I've ignored it.. it really works..
19:57:43  <vsz> so engaging into all of this "bugfix" is pontless
19:57:50  <ArmEagle> yup :)
19:58:02  <ArmEagle> it might be a bit annoying, but how often does one resize the gamewindow?
19:58:31  <PandaMojo> Not so much pointless as probably not worth the effort :P
19:58:50  <vsz> it happened to me once, and I didn't knew about shift+del and I've lost my unsaved game :P
19:59:30  <vsz> and yes, I know about autosave, but it was still annoying :)
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20:01:26  <ArmEagle> cool, my tiny patch suggestion made it trough :P
20:01:49  <ArmEagle> thanks Rubidium :)
20:02:03  <Rubidium> though I don't know whether it will get into 0.5.0
20:02:52  <ArmEagle> ah well else i'll just do the change manually. It's worth the effort.
20:03:28  <vsz> what can be the cause of banks no longer being bulit on temperate maps? Even after having a lot of huge cities, no banks were built.. And I can't fund banks in the new industries menu.
20:05:31  <Digitalfox> If in Cheats Menu the option Magic Buldozer is activated cities will erase banks
20:05:50  <Digitalfox> I figure it out at my own way..
20:06:06  <vsz> it is not activated.. and banks are not being destroyed, only they are not bulit
20:06:09  <caladan> All versions store .cfg in  ~/.openttd/>
20:06:27  <Digitalfox> Having a map 1024 * 1024 with a high number of cities and only 2 banks in 2030
20:06:35  <vsz> hm.. just discovered that the game now forgets my newgrf settings :(
20:07:08  <Digitalfox> never erased one bank, and only 2 available
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20:07:35  <vsz> Digitalfox: I remember having more banks in the old times of ttd.. or it might just be plain luck..
20:07:39  <Rubidium> vsz: NewGRF settings are now stored in-game
20:07:54  <Rubidium> getting banks has a certain aspect of luck
20:07:55  <vsz> oh.. wow.. sorry..
20:07:55  <Digitalfox> Thats why i say, we should have a option to build banks like Mini-IN
20:08:22  <vsz> yes.. they should cost a LOT, but they should be able to be built
20:08:56  <Rubidium> Digitalfox: enable the 'allow construction of raw material industries' option would solve that (I think)
20:09:10  <Digitalfox> Ok Rubidium, but having only 2 banks in 2030, with more than 30 towns with 20,000-< population ?? I think it's too little
20:09:12  <caladan> could be, bank is some kind of source for raw materials
20:09:16  <vsz> or maybe a limit of banks as a certain percentage of cities (so not all cities could have a bank)
20:09:19  <Digitalfox> It doesn't help Rub
20:09:41  <ArmEagle> heh, i've got this tiny 64*128 map with 2 cities and one city has 3 banks
20:09:47  <Digitalfox> vsz, only 2 banks?? In a map 1024*1024?
20:09:57  <vsz> or maybe just increase the likelyhood of having banks.. i'm not familiar with the code, but I think it would be just a change in a constant
20:10:33  <Digitalfox> In real life, we have small cities here in Portugal, with more than 6 banks..
20:10:48  <Rubidium> the problem of 'chance' is that it is 'random'
20:10:50  <Digitalfox> And in big cities we have like 30 banks
20:10:59  <stillunknown> how can i get the debug output out of openttd? (i already compiled in debug mode)
20:11:07  <Digitalfox> But that random, with me doesn't work porperly
20:11:12  <vsz> and here in Romania, dosens of small banks open and close each year :)
20:11:17  <vsz> *dozens
20:11:25  <Rubidium> stillunknown: read ./openttd -h
20:11:35  <ArmEagle> hehm well IRL you have busstops besides busstations :P
20:12:15  <vsz> yeap, random with a wery small probability.. maybe if (rand()d00 < 2) :))
20:12:17  <Gonozal_VIII> drive throug busstops exist
20:12:22  <Gonozal_VIII> +h
20:12:22  <ArmEagle> oh..
20:12:34  <vsz> I meen rand() % 100000
20:12:41  <Digitalfox> Rub-> why doesn't the option of building banks in a town, like in Mini-In be implemented in OpenTTD, you for the build of a bank, and only one can be build for town
20:12:46  <vsz> or just rand()<2 :)
20:13:06  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7729 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/ (5 files): [cbh] - Fix: [YAPF] several cbh related issues. YAPF should now work with cbh
20:13:09  <vsz> so just increase thet constant (if it was done like this)
20:13:15  <ArmEagle> Gonozal_VIII hmm not in RC1 :P (didn't get around to compile RC2 yet)
20:13:23  <Gonozal_VIII> in miniin
20:13:27  <Digitalfox> I don't know how to increase the constant
20:13:32  <ArmEagle> ah yeah well.
20:14:26  <vsz> ArmEagle: yeah, and IRL not all of the passengers board a train and let the transporting company decide whar they would like to travel.
20:14:31  <ArmEagle> hehe
20:14:46  <ArmEagle> maybe that will make me uses buses more.. they simply can't handle the traffic atm
20:14:48  <vsz> the go just to the first station where the first train they get will go. LOL
20:14:50  <Gonozal_VIII> passenger destinations also exist^^
20:15:48  <vsz> Gonozal_VIII: wtf? I must have skipped something new and interesting..
20:16:10  <ArmEagle> oh and btw.. the passenger can 'see' that my train is doing a simple loop, yet they still end up on my stations. So they shouldn't complain :P
20:16:35  <Gonozal_VIII> there are many interresting patches out there, they would need somebody to implement them :-)
20:17:38  <Smoovious> ugh... I so hate having to make long runs of diagonal track... .. .
20:17:50  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
20:17:56  <Gonozal_VIII> drag it :-)
20:18:23  <vsz> and new bridges will be out soon to handle diagonal tracks.. I hope..
20:18:52  <Gonozal_VIII> diagonal track, crossings and signals under bridges is in trunk
20:18:53  <Smoovious> _diagonal_ track... doesn't drag
20:19:01  <Gonozal_VIII> it does
20:19:04  * Maedhros thinks about updating his diagonal crossings patch
20:19:08  <Gonozal_VIII> fifth track tool
20:19:11  <Smoovious> not in MiniN
20:19:20  <vsz> yes, OTTD has a lot of IRL inconsistencys, but it still beats Sid's Railroads! :))
20:19:33  <Maedhros> it does if you're using autorail, but not otherwise as far as i remember
20:19:35  <Smoovious> oh, I thought that was for crossing tiles
20:19:43  <Smoovious> (maybe need a different graphic for that)
20:20:14  <Gonozal_VIII> like what?
20:20:19  <Smoovious> ok, that's soo much easier... I have placed thousands of diagonal tracks already
20:20:24  <caladan> oh, what a shit SM Railroads! is...
20:20:44  <Mizipzor> does openttd require sdl-net for network gaming?
20:20:46  <Smoovious> making a complete 3-track rail circuit around the outer edge of a 2k x 2k map
20:20:51  <Gonozal_VIII> draw something better and post it, maybe it gets implemented
20:20:56  <vsz> it's an eye candy only.. ttd is a lot better :)
20:20:58  <Wolf01> [21:20:16] <Gonozal_VIII> like what?
20:20:58  <Wolf01> something like -/\|
20:21:05  <Smoovious> I'll do that, already got 2 ideas
20:21:08  <Sacro> hmmmmmmmm
20:21:15  <Rubidium> ok, for every industry that is going to be built during the game, there is a 22% chance it will be a bank
20:21:54  <lolman> Oh Noes
20:22:01  <Maedhros> Mizipzor: no, it doesn't
20:22:05  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm that sounds like a lot of banks
20:22:06  <vsz> Rubidium: this 22% is something new? Or it was like this all the time?
20:22:47  <vsz> On tropical and arctic terrain with mines, I'll always get some banks
20:22:51  <ArmEagle> heh, i think i played the demo of Railroads! It looks nice and besides being a bit too cramped, it is nice. Oh well.. except for the TRACKS! :P
20:23:03  <vsz> but on temperate terrain.. the just won't show up
20:23:07  <Rubidium> has been that way for a long time
20:23:15  <ArmEagle> I'm amazed that they can come up with such a bad system, where you guys make the best for OpenTTD
20:23:50  <vsz> yes.. Railroads! is not for designing networks..
20:24:11  <CIA-1> glx * r7730 /branches/newhouses/ (113 files in 12 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r7583:r7727
20:24:53  <Rubidium> vsz: the problem of 'chance' is that you cannot really test it.
20:24:55  <Smoovious> for bank building, there should be something that would limit it... exponential... like, minimum town population of X to be eligible for a bank build, with a chance of being built, 1 in Y*(2^Z), where Z is the # of banks already in the town...
20:25:21  <caladan> is there a in win32 something like getuid()?
20:25:27  <vsz> there is a minimum population for banks on the temperate terrains
20:25:58  <Rubidium> yes, 1200
20:26:10  <Smoovious> er, minimum population to be eligible for a new build is X*(2^Z), chance of being built, 1 in Y*(2^Z), where Z is # of banks currently in the town
20:26:32  <vsz> it can be only one bank per city, can't is?
20:26:34  <vsz> *it
20:26:46  <Rubidium> not if you enable 'multiple industries per town'
20:26:59  <Rubidium> *same industries
20:27:03  <Smoovious> and have similar industries allowed to be close together too
20:27:56  <Smoovious> (in above examples... X being the base minimum required population, and Y being the base chance)
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20:31:58  <Smoovious> I so wish you had told me about the auto-track tool 8 hours ago... >rubs his stiff hand<
20:32:13  <Gonozal_VIII> you didn't ask ;-)
20:32:54  <Athorium> hi
20:35:09  <Digitalfox> Rubidium, only one bank for town
20:35:20  <ArmEagle> auto-track?
20:35:42  <Gonozal_VIII> the fifth track building button
20:35:48  <Digitalfox> If you go to scenario creator, you can only have one town for city, even if it has 50,000 persons
20:36:12  <Digitalfox> With or without "multiple industries per town"
20:36:41  <Digitalfox> I say Random Bank algorithum isn't working right, or being to hard..
20:36:45  <Smoovious> I shouldn't have to ask! you guys should be psychic! or read tarot cards! read tea leaves! anticipate! :D :P XD
20:37:18  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
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20:38:06  <Smoovious> I'm just bustin' balls a little bit... feels so good to be on the other side for a chance...
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20:39:36  <vsz> i still can't get it how newgrf works.. I should set them up in the main menu (I get a warninf if I set them up in a game) and they are still associated with a game?? So in the main menu I set up the newgrf options, then start a game and save it? And if i wanted to srart another game, I'll ned to set them up again?
20:40:38  <Rubidium> everything you set up in the main menu is used for new games, everything in-game is for the current running game
20:40:51  <Rubidium> don't forget to click apply in either case to apply the changes
20:41:30  <vsz> I clicked
20:41:56  <vsz> but after exiting and restarting the program twice, the settings were gone
20:43:40  <Rubidium> vsz: the settings don't disappear for me
20:44:03  <vsz> ok, i'll try it again
20:44:50  <vsz> there are [newgrf]
20:44:50  <vsz>  and
20:44:50  <vsz> [newgrf-static].. i''l experiment with them a little :)
20:46:00  <Rubidium> newgrf static are for GRFs that do not add any vehicles or so, change settings etc. They can only be GRFs that _only_ replace sprites.
20:47:18  <vsz> so that's why the viaduct is not static, bacouse it not anly changes the graphics of the wooden bridge but it also changes the speed limit on the bridge?
20:47:28  <Rubidium> yes
20:47:42  <vsz> oh, sorry again for the typos..
20:47:44  <Celestar> KUDr: nice magic :)
20:47:58  <KUDr> still problems
20:48:02  <Celestar> big ones?
20:48:06  <KUDr> working on it
20:48:09  <Celestar> ok
20:48:10  <Rubidium> Celestar: yeah :)
20:48:10  <KUDr> no
20:48:18  <Celestar> I'm off for the rest of the day probably
20:48:25  <Rubidium> like signals that do not get set back to green :)
20:48:28  <Celestar> so I'll contact you from work tomorrrow morning
20:48:40  <KUDr> :)
20:48:40  <vsz> I don't know why do i always typo wovels far away from each other on the keyboard...
20:49:03  <Smoovious> wovels?
20:49:22  <Biff> Rubidium: oh, you found out why alt-tab triggered fast forward?
20:49:28  <vsz> yas i heva a tendoncy to typu wovils :))
20:49:49  <Rubidium> Biff: no
20:50:00  <Biff> oh
20:50:06  <Rubidium> ArmEagle did
20:50:12  <Biff> ok
20:52:42  <vsz> i meen.. vowel.. :)
20:52:46  <Mizipzor> is there i nifty way to lower the service interval for every train? i hate seeing them braking down all the time but i still dont want to disable it
20:54:12  *** jni [] has left #openttd []
20:54:33  <vsz> Mizipzor: yes, i hate seeing it too, even if I change the difficulty settings to have reduced breakdowns, there occur still quite often
20:54:45  <vsz> *they
20:54:50  <Mizipzor> indeed
20:55:19  <caladan> Mizipzor: somewhere in options?
20:55:47  <caladan> Mizipzor: in patches, tab vehicles
20:55:55  <ArmEagle> Biff that was only in linux afaik (i assume win32_v.c is used for windows, sdl for linux.. )
20:56:13  <peter1138> Rubidium: tgp window is a bit b0rked
20:56:17  <ArmEagle> it didn't check the key-mods when pressing tab
20:56:25  <Rubidium> peter1138: known...
20:56:28  <peter1138> ok
20:56:31  <Smoovious> that's ok... I've been known to occasionally put the emphasis on the wrong sylabble too...
20:56:44  <Rubidium> clicking on the date borks the seed, right?
20:56:52  <peter1138> that's the one
20:57:25  * peter1138 needs Rubidium's crystal ball, clearly
20:57:29  <Mizipzor> caladan, yes, that makes it the default setting for every train i build from now on... but i want somehing that changes the existing trains
20:57:32  <Smoovious> if you're talking about the New Game config screen, I also noticed that on some years, it begins on day 2 instead of day 1
20:57:35  <ArmEagle> hmm, i asked about it before.. bridges overdiagonal track. Since i about to start compiling RC2.. any hint how i could enable that?
20:57:47  <hylje> its not in rc2
20:57:51  <ArmEagle> oh :)
20:58:02  <hylje> that'd be the trunk
20:58:16  <Rubidium> Smoovious: which years?
20:58:43  <ArmEagle> is there an overview page (on wiki perhaps) with all these different 'versions'? :P
20:58:56  <vsz> couldn't be something with leap years?
20:58:58  <Maedhros> Rubidium: 2100, for one
20:59:00  <caladan> get the newest :D
21:01:12  <vsz> wow! I think I got it! Every first 3 years of a century, where the century's first year was not a leap year...:)
21:01:20  <vsz> I should check it for 1700.. brb :)
21:01:32  <Rubidium> seems to be the case yes
21:01:37  <vsz> and 1600
21:01:38  <vsz> yes!
21:01:49  <vsz> 1600 and 2000 were leap years
21:01:52  <vsz> so no bug there
21:02:05  <vsz> but 1700, 1800, 1900 and 2100 are not!
21:02:19  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:02:33  <Smoovious> vsz, yeah, that sounds about right... it was around 1800 and 1900 give or take a few years
21:02:50  <Biff> ArmEagle: yup, i had that problem in linux, but i didnt quite figure out what caused it
21:02:51  <vsz> so there this "jan 2." bug will hit
21:03:12  <ArmEagle> Biff started to annoy me enough that i looked it up in the code :P
21:03:16  <Biff> i couldnt reproduce it always
21:03:29  <vsz> and always the first 3 years of a century whicht does not start with a leap year
21:03:36  <Smoovious> well, it is actually a Feb 29th bug... :) Jan 2nd is just the symptom :D
21:03:39  <ArmEagle> yeah indeed, must be some weird timing from the window manager that it sometimes did or not.
21:03:51  <Smoovious> er
21:04:00  <vsz> let's see if 1900 wil have a feb 29th
21:04:07  <Smoovious> yeah, Feb is it. :D
21:04:08  <ArmEagle> Biff my little Flyspray 1hour offame:, you could change it yourself and recompile..
21:04:19  <ArmEagle> *off fame :)
21:04:31  <ArmEagle> bah.. stupid typos ..
21:04:37  <Biff> ArmEagle: yup, just checked it out
21:04:46  <vsz> no! It won't
21:04:47  <Smoovious> btw... would it be a pain to set it up so new games or loaded games, start paused?
21:05:00  <Biff> that was exactly what i did aswell :p
21:05:08  <Rubidium> hmm, something is wrong with the date -> Year Month Day algorithm :)
21:05:09  <vsz> so the ingame leap year calculation  is correct!!
21:05:23  <vsz> but it's not in the main menu
21:05:48  <Smoovious> yeah, but there are non-standard years where leap year changes to account for the not-quite-exact orbit of the earth
21:06:01  <vsz> should i post this to sourceforge? :D
21:06:07  <Rubidium> well, the 'date' for 31-12-99 gets displayed as 01-01-100
21:06:15  *** BFM [] has joined #openttd
21:06:35  <Rubidium> well, never on SF (we don't use that for bug)
21:06:41  <Rubidium> and I'm looking into it now :)
21:06:52  <Smoovious> brb
21:07:02  <vsz> Smoovious: that's it. years divisible with 100 are not leap years, except if they are also divisible by 400
21:07:24  <vsz> that's why there was no problem with 1600 or 2000
21:08:28  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
21:09:59  <caladan> Found serious bug
21:10:14  <vsz> I think if I'll have more spare time I'll create a newgrf patch for an openttd 0AD-2100AD, and fill the years between 0 and 1900 with pushcarts, chariots, ox-wagons, triremes and sailships :))
21:10:22  <caladan> in Patch: Load Vehicles Gradually
21:11:36  <Maedhros> caladan: what's the bug?
21:11:38  <caladan> Is there anybody responsible for that code?
21:11:45  <Gonozal_VIII> don't forget the balloons^^
21:11:51  <caladan> Get a load of cargo
21:12:04  <caladan> Go to unloading station
21:12:20  <caladan> When you get cash, select go to depot
21:12:35  <Gonozal_VIII> stops unloading?
21:12:38  <caladan> yes
21:12:41  <caladan> and, what more
21:12:46  <Gonozal_VIII> sell again?
21:12:48  <caladan> if you load it once more
21:13:02  <caladan> then like ut unloaded 5tons of coal
21:13:10  <caladan> you can get 5tones of coal times cars
21:13:14  <caladan> from laoding station
21:13:29  <caladan> and like that you can sell only 5tonnes each time
21:13:37  <caladan> getting money like for a full load
21:13:38  <caladan> get it?
21:13:40  <Gonozal_VIII> and get payd for full load..
21:13:58  <caladan> tested on 7726M
21:14:10  <Gonozal_VIII> so it should do nothing else while unloading
21:14:18  <caladan> from cvs about 3hrs above
21:14:20  <Smoovious> vsz: yeah, that was the additional leap-year rule I was thinking of
21:14:25  <peter1138> svn
21:14:29  <caladan> sright :D
21:14:32  <caladan> right, sorry :D
21:14:51  <caladan> i'm gonna post it
21:15:14  <Maedhros> caladan: i wrote the code, so you don't really need to ;)
21:15:22  <caladan> ok
21:15:32  <caladan> you know when it happens?
21:15:44  <caladan> did i make it clear/ :D
21:15:50  <Born_Acorn> Drive through bus stops, diagonal crossings and custombridgeheads in trunk in 2007!
21:15:54  <Smoovious> vsz: for the newgrf patch... could even just have different people walking around carrying different things, or balancing things on their heads too... each person carrying 1 unit... or 2 people carrying something big... as for passenger transport, a slave carrying around a passenger on his back
21:15:58  <Maedhros> anyway, i don't know what can be done about it unless we stop the vehicle doing anything else when it's unloading
21:16:10  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't consider it very serious, as there are much easier ways to make money than to watch a train all the time and click depot button... but it needs fixing anyways
21:16:28  <caladan> well, you can make train 30cars long
21:16:40  <vsz> Smoovious: it would 0WN! :)
21:16:52  <caladan> for the quick start its dangerous
21:16:55  <peter1138> Maedhros: i can think of one way
21:17:12  <Maedhros> peter1138: what be that?
21:17:20  <vsz> however, it would need the complete redesign of th buildings..
21:17:50  <peter1138> Maedhros: each vehicle (wagon) could store a count of the amount of cargo that has been paid for
21:18:34  <Smoovious> Maedhros... perhaps once the cargo is sold, if it is told to go to a depot, cancel the rest of the waiting time and finish unloading before it leaves for depot... unless you want to do a kaching and credit amount sold, for each car as each car unloads, but that would get annoying... or just do kaching for the first car
21:18:54  <peter1138> would need a fair bit of code, and saveload stuff
21:19:57  <ArmEagle> hmm wouldn't it be logical to show 'height' in Land Area Information?
21:20:29  <Smoovious> ... since from what I saw, when it comes back out of the depot, it goes back to the station it was just at first, before moving onto the next station in schedule
21:20:34  <caladan> ArmEagle: could be, would help sometimes
21:20:34  <Maedhros> mmmm. i'll have a go at a patch
21:20:54  <Gonozal_VIII> ignoring the order would mess with the send all to depot feature (for example) maybe store the order and delay it until unloading is finished?
21:20:58  <ArmEagle> though my problem is more that i isn't that easy to see where the height changes
21:20:59  <caladan> You must force it to move to loading station
21:22:39  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... but wouldn't that create more of a headache for loading? if you're unloading and loading at the same station at the same time?
21:22:45  <Biff> Oo clever ai :P
21:22:46  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
21:22:49  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
21:23:05  <lolman> Bjarni: lol
21:23:09  <ArmEagle> lol
21:23:09  <Bjarni> lol
21:23:19  <Gonozal_VIII> what do you mean smoovious?
21:23:27  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: lol
21:23:30  <Smoovious> maybe set a single bit on each car, that will indicate that the cargo was already paid for
21:23:31  <Biff> ArmEagle: nope
21:23:34  <ArmEagle> well, there's a patch to make vehicles wait for corssings, right?
21:23:36  <Biff> hmm
21:23:43  <Biff> seems it doesnt work
21:23:49  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... ignore it... I didn't have the thought clear in my head before sharing it
21:23:53  <ArmEagle> hmm does here :)
21:24:04  <Maedhros> Smoovious: there's already a bit for that, but it gets cleared when you load new cargo
21:24:05  <ArmEagle> oh wait..
21:24:06  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: isn't it clear that everything in here is lol... at least it looks like that when I entered
21:24:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
21:24:34  <Biff> ArmEagle: i got another unwanted speedup now
21:24:40  <Smoovious> Maedhros... if the car isn't empty yet, why would it be cleared?
21:24:52  <ArmEagle> Biff how?
21:25:00  <Biff> with alt tab
21:25:02  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe payment after unloading is finished?
21:25:20  <Biff> just changing back and forth beetwhen a terminal and openttd
21:25:23  <Maedhros> Smoovious: because i didn't anticipate people cheating like that? ;)
21:25:41  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... maybe I'm missing something... when unloading happens... does each car unload gradually, or does it go whole-car by whole-car
21:25:49  <Bjarni> interresting... my tuner app stopped responding while it's recording (never happened before. I guess it didn't like my rapid fast user switching or something). It's still using CPU power and the recording keeps increasing in size
21:25:50  <ArmEagle> Biff hmm yeah i sometimes get very short speedups too.. wondering whether i'm releasing alt there first though
21:25:57  <Gonozal_VIII> each car gradually
21:25:57  <Bjarni> I wonder what will happen if I just wait
21:26:10  <Biff> ArmEagle: it gets stuck on fast forward here
21:26:16  <Bjarni> hopefully I will get a perfect recording
21:26:38  <Biff> doh
21:26:42  <Biff> forgot my tea :x
21:26:46  <Smoovious> maybe change the bit, into a byte, reflecting how much of the cargo is unpaid then?
21:26:58  <Naksu> Biff: :)
21:27:02  <Maedhros> that's what i'm trying now
21:27:08  <Smoovious> but then that opens up the possibility of getting paid at one place, and stopping the unloading, delivering it somewhere else for free
21:27:30  <Gonozal_VIII> why would you want to do that?
21:27:32  <Maedhros> but what would be the point?
21:27:53  <Biff> Naksu: yep, the old ai is even worse (the screenshot was from the new ai)
21:28:08  <caladan> Well, there's no point in unloading it somewhere else
21:28:21  <Biff> basically it should avoid crossings and always make bridges, unless crossing warnings are fixed
21:28:25  <Smoovious> well, there wouldn't be a point to it... just that it would be possible
21:29:17  <Smoovious> perhaps just have Go To Depot, only leave the station after a car is fully unloaded before moving on
21:29:28  <Smoovious> coming back to unload the rest later...
21:29:30  <ArmEagle> Biff well, only issue i have is that a very fast alt-tab bakc to the game gets the FFbutton pressed very shortly
21:29:49  <Gonozal_VIII> coming back could cause serious problems in a one way track network
21:31:01  <Gonozal_VIII> i would prefer if the train finishes unloading first and then goes to the depot
21:31:06  <Smoovious> yeah, but that is a track-design issue more than an underlying environment issue :D
21:31:13  <Smoovious> I would too
21:31:49  <Smoovious> so long as there is some indication that it will be going to depot
21:32:30  <Smoovious> but if it is going to finish unloading, then the schedule should move onto the next station so when it comes out of depot, it doesn't try to go back to the station it left first
21:33:00  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
21:33:23  <Smoovious> and only when going to depot, is forced... going to depot based on the schedule, shouldn't change the current destination
21:33:24  <Gonozal_VIII> finish unloading... depot... next order
21:33:29  * Smoovious nods.
21:34:00  <ArmEagle> hmm, that AI is drastically terraforming but it doesn't cost him anything?
21:34:42  <Gonozal_VIII> they don't have terraforming cost? so that's why they dig around all the time!
21:34:56  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid ai..
21:35:05  <ArmEagle> yeah, and it is very stupid in WHAT is is terraforming..
21:35:09  <ArmEagle> *it
21:35:22  <Smoovious> probably to make up for thier inneficient method of moving land...
21:35:25  <ArmEagle> tried adding an airport, but tarraformed all around a city
21:35:31  <Smoovious> (and yes, I know I spelled it wrong)
21:36:17  <Biff> ArmEagle: no, its free
21:36:21  <Biff> as in beer
21:36:22  <Biff> :p
21:36:32  <caladan> There's another thing to be changed, thou it's not a bug
21:36:46  <Bjarni> you aren't making enough money?
21:37:05  <Biff> it has to be free until the ai will be smart enough to not have to terraform so much
21:37:07  <caladan> When you join multiplayer game, in late years, you start with load of certain value, the same as in the starting year
21:37:13  <ArmEagle> It can be quite annoying if you are planning to build tracks or something, and the AI is messing it all up with its free terraforming..
21:37:43  <Bjarni> the AI is really borked
21:38:31  <Gonozal_VIII> caladan, you always start without money
21:38:39  <caladan> i mean taken loan
21:38:39  <Smoovious> well, you could put in a really good AI... but you'd fall asleep before it finished working out the best way to place something
21:38:59  <Gonozal_VIII> taken loan doesn't matter, max loan increases with inflation
21:39:11  <Gonozal_VIII> so no problem there
21:39:20  <caladan> i know, but it would be nice to take bigger loan later
21:39:36  <caladan> otherwise you have have to do it manually
21:45:27  <Brianetta> $ ./udp_query.tcl
21:45:27  <Brianetta> Size of packet: 410
21:45:27  <Brianetta> String length of reply: 408
21:45:27  <Brianetta> Game info version: 4
21:45:30  <Brianetta> w00t!
21:46:05  <Biff> Smoovious: it doesnt need to figure out the best way, just something good enough
21:46:54  <Maedhros> peter1138: what do you think of this?
21:49:59  <Gonozal_VIII> Maedhros, could you implement something to disable gradual loading for ships seperately or make it load more of them at the same time? because it doesn't work good with very busy docks
21:51:15  <Gonozal_VIII> like at a steel mill that gets iron ore from 20 mines per train with 200 ships to take the steel...
21:51:18  <Smoovious> or maybe enable/disable FIFO loading based on vehicle type?
21:52:02  <Maedhros> or actually implement fifo loading ;)
21:52:30  <Smoovious> ahh.. so the FIFO loading option, isn't linked to anything then?
21:53:05  <Smoovious> er, not loading option... um... patch option
21:53:56  <Maedhros> it is, but it doesn't check how much cargo is waiting, it just stops anything loading if something else is already loading
21:54:52  <Smoovious> ok, so your problem is that loading can't keep up with production then
21:55:49  <Smoovious> idea...
21:56:36  <Smoovious> for the loading cycle, still use the fifo... but go through each in turn... load as much as you can first place ship, if there is still more, do 2nd place ship, if still more, 3rd place, etc
21:57:09  <Smoovious> and keep doing that each cycle... instead of just waiting for that first ship to finish
21:57:50  <Maedhros> unfortunately loading doesn't work like that. vehicles are independent apart from that check, and they have no idea which one arrived first
21:58:08  <Smoovious> so it'll try to load as much as possible each cycle, but the 1st place ship in the fifo gets first dibs...
21:58:14  *** Mizipzor_ [] has joined #openttd
21:58:19  <Biff> i think "if (keys[SDLK_TAB] && (SDL_GetAppState() & SDL_APPINPUTFOCUS))" fixes the alt-tab problem
21:58:38  <Smoovious> they have to have an idea, or the FIFO loading wouldn't work to begin with
21:59:20  <hylje> fifo + gradual + big stations = not fun
21:59:22  <Gonozal_VIII> it does load some ships at the same time but not enough
22:00:00  *** Bytefox [] has joined #openttd
22:00:15  <Smoovious> so it basically acts as if it only has X loading platforms, no matter how many ships are there
22:00:29  <Gonozal_VIII> yes something like that
22:00:37  <Gonozal_VIII> but loads lots faster without gradual
22:00:50  <Smoovious> is this a land-based dock you're loading up at?
22:00:58  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7731 /trunk/date.c: -Fix (r5999): off-by-one error in the date to YMD calculation for first 4 years of a century that was not divisable by 400.
22:01:07  <Smoovious> scratch that, of course it is
22:01:11  <Gonozal_VIII> there are swimming docks?
22:01:16  <Biff> how do i create a normal patch with svn?
22:01:19  <Smoovious> and adding more docks to the same station, doesn't help?
22:01:24  <Maedhros> "improved loading" literally means "only load one vehicle at a time"
22:01:26  <Bjarni> Biff: svn diff
22:01:26  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... was thinking the oil rigs
22:02:04  <Biff> Bjarni: can that be used with patch?
22:02:06  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think it's possible to have multiple docks at the same station... at least last time i tried
22:02:14  <Bjarni> Biff: yes
22:02:28  <Bjarni> patch -p0 -i (diff from svn diff)
22:02:38  <Bjarni> remember it prints the diff in stdout
22:02:48  <Bjarni> you want to use "> filename"
22:02:55  <Smoovious> probably a good idea for an improvement then... for the same reasoning as multiple bus/lorry stops on the same station
22:03:05  <Biff> yup
22:03:30  <Bjarni> though sometimes I want it in the terminal for a quick verification of a change
22:03:38  <Bjarni> like svn diff openttd.c
22:03:40  <Bjarni> or something
22:03:45  <Smoovious> ship will go to whichever dockhead that has an open slot, and if none do, pick one with the least # of waiting ships, or some other criteria
22:03:55  <ArmEagle> Hmm this alt-tabbing is just awkward
22:03:58  <Smoovious> maybe even a run to the depot for maintenance while the ship is waiting
22:04:13  <ArmEagle> I guess it is just a legacy issue. But imo Tab should simply not be used for this :)
22:04:54  <Biff> Bjarni: yep, thats how i usually use it, i just thought the output was different from normal diff
22:04:57  <Gonozal_VIII> ship deopts are drive through, so i simply build them where the ships have to go through...
22:05:15  <Bjarni> Biff: it is.. a little, but it's still compatible with patch
22:05:21  <vsz> hm.. multiple docks at the same station would solve some graphical annoyances too.. if only one ship should be able to stay at a dock at a time, then the number of ship overlappings would be reduced :)
22:05:25  *** mikk36|lap [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:06:15  <Smoovious> vsz.. and if a ship can't pull into a dock cuz there are none open, it just loiters in the area, within, say, 10 tiles, until a spot opens up
22:06:33  <Smoovious> which is what real ships would do
22:06:34  <vsz> yeah, just like aircrafts do
22:06:40  <vsz> in ottd
22:06:47  *** Mizipzor_ is now known as Mizipzor
22:06:49  <Wolf01> [23:03:47] <Smoovious> ship will go to whichever dockhead that has an open slot, and if none do, pick one with the least # of waiting ships, or some other criteria
22:06:50  <Wolf01> i agree.. often is painfull to select a ship waiting at a dock... specially if there are 10 ships
22:07:02  <ln-> vsz: the plural of aircraft is aircraft
22:07:06  <Smoovious> well, I don't want it to be a solid pattern like aircraft... (I'd like to see some variation in the aircraft loiter too)
22:07:21  <Born_Acorn> Airplanes is the the plural of Airplane though!
22:07:30  <Born_Acorn> Same for aeroplanes.
22:07:36  <Smoovious> I was counting helicopters too
22:07:48  <vsz> and airships :)
22:08:10  <hylje> snakes on an airship
22:08:20  <Born_Acorn> Whats that about, then?
22:08:21  *** mikk36|lap [] has joined #openttd
22:08:38  <Gonozal_VIII> real ships don't need to circle around like planes, they don't have those aerodynamic issues...
22:09:11  <Smoovious> yeah, but real ships still get pushed around by currents, and wind resistance... then there is the whole problem of getting all of that intertia to come to a dead stop and stay there
22:09:52  <Gonozal_VIII> circling doesn't help with inertia
22:10:05  <Smoovious> maybe have all ships come to a stop 10-radius out, and when it is their turn, 2 tiny animated tug boats come out to meet the ship and bring it in :D
22:10:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
22:10:27  <Biff>
22:10:34  <Smoovious> well, they don't have to circle... just move
22:11:00  <Smoovious> I can just see me continuously checking out ships to see if they're stopped or not if they aren't doing something
22:11:11  <ArmEagle> just use tractor-beams..
22:11:30  <Brianetta> ping peter1138
22:11:49  <Born_Acorn> pong <randomnick>
22:12:18  <Brianetta> or anybody who knows about the newgrf ID in UDP thingymajig
22:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> with the aricraft queueing patch, they slow down if the airport they are heading for is busy... maybe something like that for ships
22:12:37  <Gonozal_VIII> air
22:13:24  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, ships should be bigger, maybe 10times more cargo then they have now...
22:14:26  <Smoovious> dunno if I would wanna move a decimal place for that... maybe 3 or 4x bigger
22:14:40  <Smoovious> for the later supermax ships
22:15:37  <Gonozal_VIII> it was annoying that i had to use 200 ships for the single route
22:16:16  <caladan> well, single ship would take more oil than many trains, so 10x bigger ship would be just right
22:17:05  <ArmEagle> bah, but then i couldn't 'normally' use a oil tanker to feed to this train station :)
22:19:00  <Rubidium> Brianetta: what about the newgrf in UDP?
22:19:04  <Gonozal_VIII> maximum waiting time :-)
22:19:25  <Brianetta> Rubidium: I just want to clarify the server detail change from version 3 to 4
22:19:35  <Brianetta> It just sends the newgrf count, doesn't it?
22:19:44  <Brianetta> The newgrf info is sent as separate packets
22:19:51  <Brianetta> or have I misunderstood?
22:20:30  <Rubidium> the count, followed by count times the GRFID and MD5 checksum, which is then followed by the version 3 stuff
22:20:53  <Rubidium> GRFID = 4 bytes and MD5 checksum is 16 bytes
22:21:02  <Brianetta> ah, right
22:21:12  <Brianetta> NetworkSend_GRFIdentifier(packet, c);
22:21:13  *** mosfet [] has joined #openttd
22:21:20  <Brianetta> I wasn't sure if that actually sent a packet
22:21:23  <Brianetta> or just added to this one
22:22:22  <Smoovious> no, not 10x bigger... get so tired of everything being in multiples of 10 and stuff... (like the min/max station wait times for example)
22:22:35  <Rubidium> it just appends just as NetworkSend_uint8 and friends. NetworkSend_Packet send the packet for real
22:22:38  <Smoovious> figure out something more realistic but don't just slap a 10x on it
22:22:53  <Brianetta> right
22:23:05  <Brianetta> It's just that I'm attemptint to parse this packet with Tcl (:
22:25:50  <vsz> hm.. what about bigger ports? 2*1 is to small for a port.. maybe a 3*5 or bigger port would look better ;)
22:26:06  <CIA-1> miham * r7732 /trunk/lang/danish.txt:
22:26:06  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-01 23:25:29
22:26:06  <CIA-1> danish - 26 fixed by MiR (26)
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22:26:32  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, with multiple docking areas and such..
22:26:37  <tokai> so.. when RC2 got released?
22:26:42  <Smoovious> vsz: that'd be cool... be more in line with the other station improvements... I think sea items have been the only untouched part yet
22:26:48  <tokai> as usual i missed the release:)
22:26:58  <Rubidium> uhm, last year
22:27:04  <caladan> lol, true
22:27:08  <Rubidium> the 31st
22:27:18  <tokai> ic
22:27:26  <Gonozal_VIII> some things that make ships more useful..
22:27:45  <Smoovious> like... you got the 2x1 now... maybe the next one up 3x1... just make it longer... then 4x1... then 4x3 which has 2 docks where ships can link up to either side of each dock...
22:28:19  <Smoovious> maybe for things like oil, include an off-shore dock, linked up to the mainland dock, so they can load and unload at anchor instead of at dock
22:28:44  <vsz> and let have docks more part on the land.. like . buildings, warehouses, cranes...
22:28:52  <ArmEagle> Smoovious well then we could jsut as well add pipelines to the game :)
22:29:07  *** mosfet [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:29:23  <Smoovious> ArmEagle... nah... that would take away from playability... and you wouldn't make any money...
22:30:43  <vsz> ships are slow but can carry a lot in one trip.. but what about airships? As i know there is a new trend to build large cargo-airships in the 21th century
22:31:16  <Smoovious> vsz... airships? ... um, only thing that brings to mind, are dirigibles... totally unsuited for gargo transport...
22:31:21  <Gonozal_VIII> something that uses the ground effect would be cool
22:31:21  <Smoovious> gargo=cargo
22:31:23  <vsz> so there was a buyable airship in the '30s.. and we could introduce a new one around 2000
22:31:53  <Smoovious> tho I would like to see airships in use before the first plane is introduced...
22:32:13  <Smoovious> just so the one crashing at the small airport isn't the only one in the game
22:32:48  <Smoovious> maybe 2 different types at least... earlier ones being hydrogen based, later ones helium based
22:33:14  <vsz> no, there is a newgrf with airships
22:33:40  <Smoovious> I haven't toyed with the newgrf sets yet... still tinkering with MiniN
22:33:47  <caladan> Those could use heliports...
22:33:52  <vsz> Smoovious: I've read an article about new airships suited for cargo transport
22:33:59  <Smoovious> I have seen some screenshots with the grf sets tho... very nice
22:34:20  <Smoovious> vsz: what kind of cargo
22:34:26  <Wolf01> 'night all
22:34:32  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
22:34:42  <vsz> military, but it could be used for civilian purposes too
22:34:59  <vsz> I have to search. I can't remember where have I found it
22:35:16  <Smoovious> I dunno... it takes a lot of gas to lift a small amount of mass... it doesn't sound very cost-effective
22:35:34  <caladan> it is, cause it needs no energy to float in the air
22:35:39  <Gonozal_VIII> they had something planned for civilian uses, the cargo lifter 160
22:36:03  <Gonozal_VIII> they even build a giant hangar for that thing
22:36:10  <ArmEagle> it hardly requires infrastructure though, a big pro
22:36:19  <vsz> just look at the wikipedia article about airships..
22:36:27  <caladan> Good for really heavy lifting...
22:36:30  <Smoovious> still uses energy to navigate tho... and the gas isn't easy to come by in large quantaties
22:36:31  <vsz> "long distance transport of very large payloads"
22:36:34  <Gonozal_VIII> 160 tonnes
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22:36:55  <vsz> Kirov reporting! :D :D
22:37:00  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
22:37:18  <caladan> *fiiuuuuuuuu* *boom*
22:37:36  <Smoovious> to me, it is one of those things that might make the numbers look good on paper, but realistically, isn't going to turn out to be very practical
22:38:16  <Gonozal_VIII> it would solve many problems with heavy weight transportation
22:38:18  <caladan> It is good for some purposes, not for all, thats sure
22:38:41  <caladan> scientists want to use it to lift heavy objects, for building of pipelines and so on
22:38:43  <Gonozal_VIII> like large turbines for power plants or such
22:39:17  <vsz> why not? Try transporting a Dragline excavator on road :)
22:39:25  <hylje> omg kirov airship rush kekekek
22:39:37  <Smoovious> Gonozal_VIII... that's part of the problem tho... when dealing with heavy weights, you need a LOT of displacement... a huge amount... >thinks about how many helium ballons it took to lift a little girl on Mythbusters<
22:39:38  <caladan> and airships were used during last summer games as a observating point for police
22:39:41  <hylje> vsz: or that german excavator
22:39:42  <vsz> yuri is maaaaster :P
22:39:54  <hylje> why dont you serve yuri
22:40:12  <Brianetta> Brianetta's Standard updated to RC2
22:40:14  <Smoovious> vsz... dragline excavators just drive themselves... and they don't use the roads, but go over land
22:40:33  <Gonozal_VIII> they had everything planned, hangar finished balloon that can lift 50 tonnes for testing ready... than they ran out of money
22:40:58  <caladan> I dont claim its easy to start
22:40:59  <vsz> Smoovious: yeah, try moving a dragline excavator from the wst couast of the USA to the Eastern coast
22:41:05  <caladan> but then it may be cheap
22:41:08  <Smoovious> caladan... that is a perfect use for airships tho... as the Goodyear blimp's overhead sports views have proven for decades now
22:41:10  <vsz> *coast
22:41:57  <Gonozal_VIII>
22:42:07  <Smoovious> vsz... I certainly wouldn't wanna trust floating a dragline excavator across country, subject to our wind currents, hanging off of the bottom of a balloon...
22:42:30  <caladan> that's why they want to use airships not balloons
22:42:54  <Smoovious> airships are balloons... just of a different shape... with directional thrust
22:42:59  <caladan> i would treat it like a moving crane
22:43:08  <Smoovious> but when you get down to their essence, they're balloons
22:43:21  <caladan> yes, but they have their engines
22:43:29  <Brianetta> Airships are extremely capable
22:43:43  <Brianetta> but they never managed to get their image back after the Hindenburg disaster
22:43:44  <Smoovious> which aren't close to being strong enough to provide enough thrust to keep it airborn
22:44:04  <Brianetta> Smoovious: They are lighter than air.  They don't need thrust to keep airoborne
22:44:19  <BFM> Smoovious, if they're engineered for the correct environment, I see nothing wrong with using them to their specified caperbility.
22:44:21  <Brianetta> They need thrust to maintin position
22:44:26  <Smoovious> Brianetta... only if nothing goes wrong...
22:44:47  <vsz> if we are planning to expand ottd, why not add space elevators available from 2050? :)
22:44:49  <Brianetta> Smoovious: You expect aeroplanes to have thrust to stay airborned in case the wings fall off?
22:44:54  <Brianetta> What's going to go wrong?
22:45:03  <Brianetta> A leaky airship doesn't fall from the sky like a rock
22:45:16  <Smoovious> of course not... the engines are mounted on the wings to begin with... they'd be gone with the wings... don't be silly
22:45:20  <BFM> LOL at space elevators.
22:45:21  <Brianetta> vsz: 2050 is optimistic
22:45:25  <Bjarni> there are talk about using modern airships to transport windmills. Windmills increase efficiency when they grow bigger and the limit today is how big the roads are. They already uses specially designed lorries that are almost 30 meters long, but any more would not only make turning a bigger issue, they will also have problems with getting under bridges. Airships on the other hand would not have limits like that
22:45:25  <Smoovious> depends on how big the leak gets
22:45:31  <Athorium>  Bjarni
22:45:34  <vsz> then 2100.. 2150.. dunno
22:45:38  <Bjarni> Athorium
22:45:46  <Bjarni> Bjarni
22:45:47  <Bjarni> hmm
22:45:52  <caladan> Brianetta: Good point, with that safeness
22:45:56  <Bjarni> I'm missing something of the fun in this :s
22:45:59  <caladan> lol, safety :D
22:46:13  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7733 /trunk/genworld_gui.c: -Fix (r5946): do not use WP(w, querystr_d) and WP(w, def_d) for the same window.
22:46:13  <Athorium> Bjarni: is possible that anyone code my idea?
22:46:20  * caladan is programming ARM :-)
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22:46:34  <Athorium> my idea about speed signals
22:46:42  <PandaMojo> Smoovious: So if the balloon can't keep itself aloft when something goes wrong, that's not okay because the engines are there -- but if the plane can't keep itself aloft when something goes wrong, that's okay because the engines are gone anyways?  :P
22:46:53  <BFM> If anything, I'd love to see fuel dynamics included in OpenTTD. Rising fuel costs, etc.
22:47:09  <Smoovious> PandaMojo... get real... I never said it was 'okay'
22:47:12  <PandaMojo> :D
22:47:30  <vsz> airplanes can "survive" without engines! Just take a look at the Gimli Glider :)
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22:47:50  <Smoovious> but if the engines fail, it still has a good chance of landing... and with multiple engines, planes can still manage to land safely on the remaining engines
22:47:56  <caladan> Gliders are just something else, they are designed to be light
22:48:10  <PandaMojo> Smoovious: Not if you're over mountains in the middle of nowhere :P
22:48:19  <Smoovious> but if something goes wrong with a blimp, and loses more gas than can be replaced, you have no backup
22:48:21  <caladan> Cut it out, you watched too many american movies :P
22:48:49  <caladan> Probably you got something like grid inside?
22:48:57  <Bjarni> 	<Athorium>	Bjarni: is possible that anyone code my idea? <-- most likely.... what idea? :)
22:49:07  <caladan> you can turn one on and off (like titanic ;-))
22:49:07  <PandaMojo> Smoovious: But you have time to get down, and with lower velocities required to stay airborne (if going down some), a crash landing in the middle of nowhere is probably more survivable in a blimp.
22:49:17  <PandaMojo> Well, assuming it doesn't explode.
22:49:22  <PandaMojo> (Same applies to planes though too)
22:49:37  <PandaMojo> (With the exploding)
22:49:37  <vsz> caladan: the Ginli Glider was a Boeing 767
22:49:38  <Athorium> Bjarni see down... (Athorium) my idea about speed signals <--- I said it...
22:49:43  <vsz> *Gimli
22:49:59  <vsz> oops.. not "was".. it's still flying
22:50:04  <caladan> vsz: I still dont like idea of a jet plane falling off the sky :D
22:50:16  <Gonozal_VIII> [23:49:16] <PandaMojo> Well, assuming it doesn't explode. <-- helium doesn't explode
22:50:19  <Smoovious> yeah, but after a certain limit, it doesn't matter how fast you're falling... a 50m/s fall can be just as fatal as a 500m/s fall
22:50:30  <vsz> what about a jet gliding off the sky ;)
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22:50:38  <PandaMojo> Gonozal_VIII: Which means it depends on what materials are being used for lift :P
22:50:44  <caladan> Airship by itself is light thing
22:51:06  <caladan> And you dont have to move these things long distances and high
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22:51:08  <Gonozal_VIII> it wouldn't fall fast if it's leaking gas
22:51:09  <Biff> airships are sweet
22:51:11  <ArmEagle> can ofcourse put parachutes on teh cargo, and drop it in emergencies :)
22:51:22  <Biff> and much safer then aircraft
22:51:22  <Smoovious> depends on how much gas it is leaking per second
22:51:24  <Brianetta> Airships, aside from hydrogen fires, have an incredible safety record
22:51:34  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe if a plane ran through it or something..
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22:51:51  <Brianetta>
22:51:54  <Brianetta> Notable exception (:
22:52:02  <Brianetta> but that was flying in arctic conditions
22:52:07  <Smoovious> ArmEagle... oh yeah, that'd work... drop off the cargo, and suddenly you have way too much buoyancy and you are quickly too high to survive without supplemental O2
22:52:16  <ArmEagle> :)
22:52:26  <caladan> huh, hard one
22:52:33  <Born_Acorn> Brianetta, don't forget wind related accidents
22:52:34  <Bjarni> Athorium: tricky one
22:52:38  <Bjarni> I can't tell
22:52:45  <Biff> Smoovious: they can release their gas i think
22:52:49  <caladan> come on, you dont have t fly high
22:52:51  <Athorium> but, is possible to code it?
22:52:55  <Smoovious> not THAT fast...
22:52:57  <Biff> otherwise they couldnt have landed
22:52:57  <Born_Acorn> I've seen a few B+W photos of the earliest Military ones in trees, snapped in half etc
22:53:18  <Biff> Athorium: code airships?
22:53:21  <Smoovious> afk a bit... time to cook dinner
22:53:43  <Brianetta> Biff: They don't release gas, they drive down
22:53:45  <Athorium> Biff: no, I speaking about other thing another feature...
22:53:47  <Brianetta> and tether to masts
22:53:48  <Biff> oh
22:54:07  <Brianetta> Helium isn't that cheap
22:54:09  <Gonozal_VIII> could also compress the gas somehow
22:54:11  <Brianetta> not like hydrogen
22:54:26  <Biff> weird if they dont have some sort of valve on the top for releasing of gas in an emergency
22:54:37  <Born_Acorn> make a new lighter than air compound!
22:54:37  <Brianetta> Bear in mind also, that many airships are rigid
22:54:41  <Brianetta> You don't want to reduce the pressure too much
22:54:44  <vsz> Athorium: features an airship
22:54:48  <caladan> Like in Lalka by Boleslaw Prus, there was a metal lighter than an air :D
22:54:58  <Athorium> ???
22:55:03  <Athorium> I no speaking about aircrafts...
22:55:07  <PandaMojo> Interesting, that crash only had one crash-fatality
22:55:11  <Athorium> I speaking about my feature idea: Speed signals
22:55:16  <Gonozal_VIII> carbon tubes are lighter than air
22:55:18  <PandaMojo> The rest were arctic survival issues.
22:56:03  <Biff> Athorium: ah, for trains?
22:56:06  <Born_Acorn> <-- List of Planes!
22:56:29  <Gonozal_VIII> no biff, signals for planes ;-)
22:56:31  <Athorium> biff: yes, for trains, to make any area speed limited
22:56:32  <Born_Acorn> Red = Primary Company Colour, while Green is Secondary
22:56:33  <Athorium> ;D
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22:57:00  <Biff> Gonozal_VIII: could be for lorrys ;)
22:57:15  <Born_Acorn> *lorries.
22:57:15  <Biff> Athorium: why do you want that?
22:57:15  * Born_Acorn nitpicks like a mad picker of nits
22:57:25  <Biff> Born_Acorn: yep, for lorries aswell
22:57:28  <Biff> :P
22:57:46  <Athorium> biff a lot of trains of different speeds drives on same track, and lower trains makes a train jam... with more than 8 trains rear them...
22:57:53  <Born_Acorn> Red Lorry Yellow Lorry Red Lorry Yellow Lorry Red Lorry Yellow Lorry
22:58:19  <Biff> Athorium: yep, so you should upgrade your trains
22:58:20  <Gonozal_VIII> newsignalling will fix that
22:58:20  <Athorium> and other possibility, is to limit speed in multiple roadcross, to evite collisions :P
22:58:30  <vsz> Athorium good idea
22:58:44  <hylje> multiple roadcrosses should have a bridge
22:58:58  <vsz> Biff: the realistic newgrf trains have fixed top speeds for cargo wagons
22:59:03  <Gonozal_VIII> all road crossings are deathtraps
22:59:09  <Biff> Athorium: what you really want is something like a backoff algorithm, like eg tcp
22:59:13  <Athorium> Biff yes but for example, for passengers I use emu's that reach 140 Km/h and for freight my trains goes at 110Km/h but those trains are for freight... and passengers train go faster than freight trains ;D
22:59:29  <Biff> so they reduce their speed if there is slow traffic ahead
22:59:45  <Athorium> no, no only if slow traffic ahead
22:59:47  <Gonozal_VIII> that will be with newsignalling :-)
22:59:50  <Biff>
23:00:00  <vsz> so you can't transport coal faster than 104 (or 120) km/h mo matter how fast your locomotives are
23:00:07  <Biff> is what you want
23:00:57  <Athorium> limit them with a signal for example: I add a signal that speed limit are 75 Km/h because are a lot of crossroads in middle of city, after this, I add another signal I remove this limit...
23:01:23  <Smoovious> multiple road crossings would be handled by having the signals go off more squares in advance
23:01:36  *** mikk36|lap [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01:41  <Biff> Athorium: but the speed shouldnt be reduced, the warnings go off to late
23:01:44  <Athorium> this is a example of my idea
23:02:24  <Biff> what have you done to your graphics?
23:03:04  <Athorium> ?
23:03:06  <Smoovious> btw... speed limits aren't handled by the signals... but by speed-limit posts along the track... only time a signal would indicated a speed limit would be because of the switches in the signal's coverage area... if the train has to go limited, reduced, or restricted speeds
23:03:08  <vsz> it seems like a lot of newgrf :)
23:04:05  <Athorium>  Smoovious I would that all of this can be controlled by signals
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23:04:31  <Athorium> one signals that limit the speed and make a pathfind with limited speed after the next speed signal, that can be another speed o speed remove
23:04:35  <Smoovious> and since in RL, trains rarely see the trains ahead of them on the track, it is hard for them to match speeds anyways, so they will still start/stop/creep at signals behind slower traffic anyways
23:04:51  <hylje> :o
23:05:37  <Athorium> I think that can be a nice feature
23:05:57  <Smoovious> unless you're actually driving the train, it isn't very useful...
23:06:08  <glx> KUDr: ping
23:06:15  <Smoovious> better to just leave signalling based on path
23:06:16  <Athorium> ¿?
23:06:26  <KUDr> glx: pong
23:07:05  <glx> error in yapf/strapi.hpp:55 (cbh branch)
23:07:08  <Gonozal_VIII> irl there are not many tracks where there is a steady stream of trains with the distance between them shorter than the train length...
23:07:21  <KUDr> huh
23:07:26  <glx>
23:07:26  <Smoovious> not even for commuter rail
23:07:28  <KUDr> compilation error?
23:07:39  <glx> yes mingw
23:07:53  <Brianetta> not even.
23:08:35  <Brianetta> I use long signal blocks in my games, because they're more real... and give trains a chance to stretch their legs (:
23:08:45  <KUDr> glx: here it works (gcc)
23:09:01  <KUDr> glx: how long you will be available?
23:09:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i use very short signal blocks for tons of trains
23:09:07  <caladan> I don't like putting signals one after another
23:09:12  <KUDr> i will need your assistance
23:09:15  <caladan> does it slow down game?
23:09:25  <Smoovious> I try to do the same with my signal blocks... only placing them closer together near interlockings and stations
23:09:27  <glx> KUDr: I'm here for at least 3 hours :)
23:09:34  <KUDr> thanks
23:11:33  * peter1138 hmms at airdrag
23:12:09  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
23:12:12  <KUDr> peter1138: working on accelerator?
23:12:16  <peter1138> (35 (area) * 20 (drag_coeff) * speed * speed) / 10000
23:12:17  <peter1138> yes
23:12:28  <KUDr> just remove *= 4
23:12:28  <peter1138> i'm wondering what 35 is, and its units
23:12:42  <peter1138> and what the *= 4 is, heh
23:12:48  <peter1138> and 20? 20 whats?
23:13:02  <KUDr> and then make bigger mass influence to acceleration ratio
23:13:21  <peter1138> KUDr: i'm attempting to implement newgrf's drag coefficient
23:13:32  <KUDr> ahh
23:13:32  <Gonozal_VIII> 20 units of magic dust :-)
23:13:33  <peter1138> which is a percentage (well, per 255)
23:13:41  <peter1138> 128 = 0.5
23:14:05  *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:14:06  <KUDr> so it will be not so simple ;)
23:14:31  <peter1138> it would be, if i new what the existing units were... etc...
23:14:35  <peter1138> *knew
23:14:42  <hylje> rumour has it NewGRF stuff isnt working on OS X
23:15:05  <peter1138> i'm sure bjarni will have tested it all
23:15:13  <PandaMojo> "NewGRF stuff"?
23:15:32  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Boofars released!
23:15:55  <KUDr> peter1138: no units, just bulgarian constants :)
23:15:59  <PandaMojo> R7605 works fine at least >_>
23:16:24  <peter1138> Cd is the drag coefficient (a dimensionless constant, e.g. 0.25 to 0.45 for a car)
23:16:31  <peter1138> i have that bit...
23:16:32  <peter1138> hmm
23:17:16  <peter1138> oh, 120, not 35
23:17:36  <peter1138> drag_coeff = 20; //[1e-4]
23:18:10  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:18:16  <peter1138> 0.0020?
23:18:36  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7734 /branches/custombridgeheads/bridge_cmd.c: [cbh] - Fix: '!Disconnecting train' when leaving bridge in Y_SE direction. Train controller needs to know train's track, so it can't be zero.
23:18:48  <hylje> :o
23:19:52  <peter1138> do we need air density? heh
23:19:54  <Nigel> custombridgeheads sounds "interesting"
23:20:37  <Maedhros> peter1138: any comments?
23:20:53  <Gonozal_VIII> faster trains on higher terrain...^^
23:21:11  <hylje> peter1138: for the sake of simulation..
23:21:34  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:22:03  <KUDr> glx: you don't have linux, just cygwin or mingw, right?
23:22:21  <glx> KUDr: msys+mingw (win32)
23:22:32  <glx> _CRTIMP int __cdecl    vswprintf (wchar_t*, const wchar_t*, __VALIST); <--in win32api
23:22:40  <glx> maybe it's the problem
23:22:41  <caladan> time to switch to linux ;-)
23:22:52  *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:23:41  <KUDr> then you have something what doesn't exist on unix not win32
23:23:47  <Rubidium> Maedhros: might it be possible to implment it without the savegame bump?
23:23:53  <glx> _CRTIMP int __cdecl    _vsnwprintf (wchar_t*, size_t, const wchar_t*, __VALIST);<-- I have this too
23:24:04  <KUDr> glx: vswprintf (wchar_t*, size_t, const wchar_t*, __VALIST)
23:24:29  <Maedhros> Rubidium: i don't think so, because whether the cargo has been paid for or not should be saved, i think
23:24:54  <KUDr> glx: is there vswnprintf
23:24:56  <KUDr> ?
23:25:14  <Rubidium> there are a few null bytes in vehicle.c
23:25:14  <glx> read 5 line above :)
23:25:31  <KUDr> vswnprintf
23:25:37  <KUDr> ^^ n ^^
23:25:42  <glx> _vsnwprintf
23:25:49  <hylje> :o
23:25:55  <Rubidium> or rather, at the end of the saved stuff in vehicle.c
23:25:56  <KUDr> aha
23:26:06  <peter1138> Rubidium: more hassle than it's worth
23:26:14  <peter1138> i've got to go
23:26:15  <peter1138> bye
23:26:19  <glx> bye peter1138
23:26:24  <KUDr> glx: _win32 is defined?
23:26:25  <Rubidium> well, this patch probably has to be backported to 0.5
23:26:40  <peter1138> not a problem
23:26:44  <peter1138> oh
23:26:46  <peter1138> hmm,
23:26:54  <peter1138> i see
23:26:56  <peter1138> oh well
23:27:00  <peter1138> you can figure it out :D
23:28:15  *** Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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23:28:34  <Maedhros> heh, g'night peter1138
23:28:55  * Bjarni slaps peter1138
23:28:56  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	i'm sure bjarni will have tested it all
23:29:11  <Bjarni> I claimed to have tested if the Danish translation fits in the window
23:29:18  <Bjarni> not the actual usage of the window
23:29:22  <Bjarni> there is a BIG difference
23:29:48  <Maedhros> Rubidium: any particular objection to the savegame bump? is it just that it provides so little gain?
23:29:49  <Bjarni> besides isn't working.... could mean a lot of stuff
23:29:53  <Bjarni> like endian issues
23:30:49  <Rubidium> Maedhros: the patch has to be backported to 0.5 and there were savegame bumps between 0.5 and the current trunk, to applying this patch to trunk would mean we cannot load those savegames anymore in trunk
23:31:42  <peter1138> how about the "don't let the train move while it's unloading" version?
23:31:50  <Nigel> just a thought, apply the patch when you dump savegame next?
23:31:50  <Maedhros> ah, i see
23:32:10  <Nigel> *bump
23:32:14  <peter1138> oh, i'm still here
23:32:34  <Bjarni> also enabling and disabling the DB set appears to work
23:32:43  <peter1138> not really
23:32:55  <KUDr> glx:
23:32:56  <peter1138> you'll end up with mixed up shit :D
23:33:09  <Bjarni> <hylje>	rumour has it NewGRF stuff isnt working on OS X <-- explain. It works for me
23:34:11  <ArmEagle> heh i patched RC2 with that aircraft queuing patch (needed some changes). Increases aircraft speed to max, just to try and see whether it will work.
23:34:26  <peter1138> to "max"
23:34:28  <peter1138> what is "max" ? heh
23:34:34  <ArmEagle> anyway, in a viewport i opened, sometimes i see a plane on teh ground outside the aircraft :)
23:34:37  <hylje> Bjarni: i just heard stuff.
23:34:54  <Bjarni> well
23:34:59  <Bjarni> what did you hear?
23:35:03  <Gonozal_VIII> with 4, they have the same speed as trains when displaying same speed
23:35:14  <peter1138> we should ban people who spread unsubstantiated remours ;p
23:35:18  <ArmEagle> hmm, i think the viewport doesn't update completely after the game regains focus and coming back to the foreground
23:35:21  <peter1138> *rumours* too
23:35:21  <glx> KUDr: it works
23:35:30  <KUDr> ok
23:35:32  <KUDr> thanks
23:35:33  * peter1138 *bye*
23:35:39  <ArmEagle> not a big deal though
23:35:47  <Gonozal_VIII> so 4 = good number
23:35:56  <Bjarni> well, I can't rule out the possibility of endian issues in the grf code
23:35:58  <hylje> Bjarni: that ottd couldnt load stuff
23:36:18  <hylje> Bjarni: in an executable directory afaik
23:36:18  <Bjarni> but so far I have yet to find anything that could tell me of such issues
23:37:27  <Bjarni> well, it never failed me. Just do as you are told by the general howto for newgrf
23:37:42  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7735 /branches/custombridgeheads/yapf/strapi.hpp: - Fix: mingw compilation error (glx)
23:39:27  *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:39:48  <Maedhros> Rubidium: another option could be to use the current bit in v->load_status for savegames, and use that to mark all cargo paid for when loading the game
23:40:28  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-202-9.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:40:31  <Maedhros> so you could still cheat, but only by saving the game after loading the second time
23:43:27  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7736 /branches/custombridgeheads/train_cmd.c: [cbh] - Codechange: removed one goto by messing with if/else blocks. Also suppresses gcc warning that 'dir' can be used uninitialized.
23:45:00  <Rubidium> not exactly, look at
23:48:41  <KUDr> Rubidium: can you please try cbh as it is now?
23:49:13  * Maedhros looks
23:49:15  <Rubidium> something is wrong with the signal propagation
23:49:39  <KUDr> Rubidium: signal propagation is still untouched ;)
23:49:44  <Rubidium> ok
23:49:56  <KUDr> i meant pathfinding and passing bridges
23:50:04  <KUDr> YAPF only
23:50:20  <Rubidium> that seems to work in my testcase
23:50:39  <KUDr> ok, thanks
23:51:13  <Rubidium> hmm, YAPF doesn't take the maximum speed of the bridges into account :)
23:51:38  <Rubidium> but that has nothing to do with cbh
23:51:40  <KUDr> YAPF does
23:51:44  <KUDr> controller not
23:52:10  <glx> hey I still get the 'dir' might be used uninitilised :)
23:52:29  <glx> plus 'enterdir' might be ...
23:52:45  <KUDr> glx: hmm, then trash your compiler and upgrade
23:52:46  * Rubidium has no such warnings
23:53:05  <KUDr> must be some old model
23:53:12  <KUDr> 3.45 or so
23:53:14  <glx> 3.4.2
23:53:25  <KUDr> yeah
23:53:47  <KUDr> glx: feel free to fix it as you like
23:54:01  <KUDr> i can't (here it works)
23:54:22  <Rubidium> well, it looks like it is complaining when it shouldn't, i.e. the compiler is 'broken'
23:55:14  <KUDr> Rubidium: older compilers were not so precise i guess
23:56:36  <Athorium> the trains can be drived with same style than LoMo?
23:57:31  <Bjarni> <--- Japanese style place... wtf
23:57:43  <KUDr> Athorium: no, ottd recognizes that you don't have valid train driver licence
23:57:59  <Athorium> ???
23:58:16  <KUDr> you just hire drivers
23:58:22  <KUDr> they do the job
23:59:30  <glx> KUDr: <-- usual fix :)
23:59:47  <KUDr> so commit it

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