Log for #openttd on 4th January 2007:
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00:06:42  <Darkvater> whohoo I think I fixed this news-gui bug forever
00:06:51  <nairan> ?
00:07:01  <Darkvater> kids a piece of advice: do NOT implement a FIFO queue in an array
00:07:06  <Darkvater> it's asking for a lot of bugs
00:07:44  <glx> hehe arrays are not intended for FIFO stuff :)
00:07:55  <Gonozal_VIII> queue sounds more like a list thingy
00:08:11  <Darkvater> tell that to dominik
00:08:18  <Rubidium> or a heap in case of a priority queue :)
00:09:12  <Darkvater> I still wonder why I bother with it though instead of just changing ;p
00:09:13  <Darkvater> but ok
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00:09:41  <BFM> The other day, I could rank people in /. and I was all like, phwoa... didn't end up ranking anyone, but instead just sat there, chuffed with my new internet super powers.
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00:13:10  <blathijs> Darkvater: FIFO queue can be implemented in an array just find, just make it loop around
00:13:49  <Darkvater> yes and update any pointers you have into there and bitch around all the corner cases
00:13:54  <Darkvater> no thank you
00:14:05  <Digitalfox> What i think is sad, is old developers of openttd, like dominik, ludde, etc.. that retired, never show up again.. I know everybody has there life, but from time to time it would be cool to seem them again :(
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00:14:44  <glx> Digitalfox: ludde sometimes shows up
00:15:44  <Digitalfox> I would like to know what they think of their baby ( openttd ) now, so much develpment been done and how they see the olding of openttd..
00:16:50  <blathijs> Darkvater: :-)
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00:44:05  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7814 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.c debug.h): [MSU] -Add: date + time before all debug and error messages (so we know whether it is recent or not).
00:44:49  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7815 /branches/masterserver_updater/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Add: mysql database backend.
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00:52:53  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7816 /branches/newhouses/projects/ (openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): [NewHouses] -Fix: the MSVC project files were out-of-sync with respect to sources.list.
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01:10:42  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7817 /trunk/src/water_cmd.c: -Fix (r7573): Bridge merge broke building canals at level 0.
01:13:28  <Darkvater> gn
01:13:52  <Maedhros> night Darkvater
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01:30:09  <glx> any tt-forums admin here ?
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01:41:28  <Sacro> glx: i think not
01:42:31  <glx> I asked because posts need to be removed
01:45:49  <Sacro> indeed... theres a few people on #tycoon admin hunting
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01:58:11  <roboboy> since when couldnt planes cary cargo
01:58:32  <glx> long time ago
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02:00:58  <roboboy> ok
02:01:26  <roboboy> shouldnt it be possible with the planset since its got liveries specially designed for cargo?
02:01:59  <glx> planeset works in openttd
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02:14:09  <DaleStan> PlaneSet works, except that planes are apt to end up with the wrong coal capacity.
02:18:08  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7818 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.c: -Fix (r7751): wrote some data to the wrong network packet.
02:23:19  <roboboy> but you cant refit to cargo with planeset
02:23:49  <DaleStan> You can't? Something's broken then, because most planes should be able to carry all cargoes.
02:24:29  <DaleStan> (Exceptions: Zeppelins: pax and mail only, Ruslan: anything but pax)
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02:42:09  <roboboy> its broken on every mp server ive been on
02:42:19  <roboboy> havent tested in SP
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06:57:53  <CIA-1> miham * r7819 /trunk/src/lang/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
06:57:53  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-04 07:57:17
06:57:53  <CIA-1> japanese - 78 fixed by ickoonite (78)
06:57:53  <CIA-1> slovenian - 26 fixed, 317 changed by Necrolyte (343)
06:57:53  <CIA-1> ukrainian - 3 fixed, 2 changed by znikoz (5)
07:30:27  <MiHaMiX> no more commits pls
07:30:32  <MiHaMiX> 9
07:32:26  <hylje> :o
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07:34:18  <MiHaMiX> ok, commits allowed again
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08:58:08  <peter1138> hi
08:58:16  <hylje> hey
08:58:30  <BurningFeetMan> sup
09:03:33  <Celestar> morning
09:05:14  <Celestar> KUDr: :)
09:05:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: :o
09:06:06  <hylje> Celestar: :c
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09:26:17  <Celestar> Darkvater: KUDr: request for response
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09:33:37  <Nigel> group moderator for the NZ Locomotives group on Yahoo posted a picture of the front half of a airplane, with no wings and described the picture as "Auckland gears up for high speed rail (taken 3rd January at Auckland Port)"
09:41:19  <guru3> 0
09:41:19  <hylje> :p
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09:52:23  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: ping
09:52:40  <Celestar> Rubidium: ping
09:53:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: ping
09:53:12  <Celestar> 3 requests queued
09:58:29  <Rubidium> Celestar: pong
09:59:06  <Celestar> vici@hornburg:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> which gcc
09:59:06  <Celestar> /usr/bin/gcc
09:59:06  <Celestar> vici@hornburg:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> ./configure
09:59:06  <Celestar> checking build system type... gcc not found
09:59:18  <Celestar> ?
09:59:40  <Rubidium> what value does CC have?
09:59:42  <KUDr> Celestar: pong
10:00:13  <KUDr> gm
10:00:27  <Celestar> Rubidium: it is not defined
10:00:43  <Rubidium> can you give me a link to config.log?
10:01:10  <Celestar> KUDr: hi two things. 1) this "fix" for NTP, why is it needed only in bridgeheads, or is it not? 2) I need some introduction to templanes :)
10:01:13  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes
10:01:51  <KUDr> Celestar: 1) really dunno, i was surprised
10:01:59  <KUDr> 2) no problem. Now?
10:02:02  <Celestar> Rubidium:
10:02:18  <Celestar> 2) yes. just a link or a book or something would help as well :)
10:02:30  <KUDr> hmmmm
10:02:34  <KUDr> book?
10:02:38  <Celestar> I *think* to know what a class is :P
10:02:48  <Celestar> something like a struct, but can contain functions :P
10:02:54  <KUDr> do you have VNC?
10:03:02  <KUDr> we can do lessen on-line
10:03:07  <Celestar> hehe
10:03:12  <KUDr> lesson
10:03:19  <Celestar> let me see
10:03:25  <Celestar> can you get the IP of ?
10:04:05  <KUDr>
10:04:09  <Celestar> good
10:04:14  * Celestar goes starting a server
10:09:10  <Rubidium> Celestar: what does config.cache say?
10:09:26  <Celestar> sec
10:09:45  <Celestar> Rubidium: the first entry from config.log
10:10:05  <Rubidium> hmm, strange it cannot find gcc
10:10:45  <Rubidium> a normal ./configure does work properly?
10:12:22  <Celestar> Rubidium: no
10:12:26  <Celestar> its not linux :)
10:13:12  <Celestar> it's FreeBSD
10:13:19  <Rubidium> hmm
10:13:30  <Rubidium> and a 'bash ./configure' ?
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10:16:38  <Celestar> I don't have bash
10:17:11  <Rubidium> what shell do you have?
10:17:19  <Celestar> tcsh/csh/sh
10:17:36  <stillunknown> sh should do
10:17:48  <Celestar> sh configure fails with same error
10:19:23  <Rubidium> arg
10:19:39  <Rubidium> tcsh starts with errors from about line 3
10:20:27  <Celestar> ^^
10:20:31  <Celestar> sh shoud do
10:20:46  <hylje> :o
10:22:07  <Rubidium> hmm, maybe there are more bashisms in the configure scripts
10:22:16  <stillunknown> has openttd ever worked on freebsd?
10:22:26  <Celestar> stillunknown: Tron is on freebsd only
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10:23:15  <stillunknown> configure works here with sh
10:23:35  <stillunknown> so it's a freebsd issue
10:23:35  <Rubidium> Celestar: what shell is linked to sh?
10:26:48  <Celestar> vici@hornburg:[/home/vici]> ls -al `which sh`
10:26:48  <Celestar> -r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  103872 Jun 30  2006 /bin/sh
10:26:52  <Celestar> it is a shell
10:27:16  <Rubidium> what version? as I cannot find it in the repository of freebsd
10:27:23  <Celestar> when I set CC to /usr/bin/Gcc
10:27:23  <Rubidium> (version of FreeBSD that is)
10:27:34  <Celestar> checking build system type... /usr/bin/gcc unusable
10:28:12  <stillunknown> read the configure file or config.lib for the check it does
10:28:56  <Rubidium> the problem is that the shell doesn't 'work' right with the script; if you have 'solved' this problem, the next will come
10:35:11  <peter1138> the script doesn't work right with the shell ;)
10:35:24  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll try to address this problem later
10:44:47  <roboboy>  /join #standard
10:45:09  <peter1138> i did :D
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11:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> hmm... they are showing NUMB3RS season 2 here... it's almost unbelievable
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11:05:38  <hylje> its liek csi, it might be entertaining but not quite realistic
11:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i liked season 1, but apparently it did not run very well
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11:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> season 2 is already very late, and they switched channels
11:13:39  <hylje> why do danes have an obsession with -dk suffix on their nicks
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11:16:57  <Brianetta> That desync bug is hammering my server right now
11:17:31  <Zaviori> House continues in 5 days \e/
11:19:23  <Brianetta> Stupid desyncs
11:24:53  <Brianetta> Any devs here?
11:26:17  <blathijs> Depends
11:26:26  <blathijs> Do you want him to solve your desync issue?
11:26:28  <blathijs> Then, no ;-p
11:28:02  <Brianetta> I found the problem
11:28:12  <Brianetta> If I disable all three YAPFs
11:28:16  <Brianetta> it doesn't desync
11:28:21  <Brianetta> then re-enabling them makes it OK
11:28:35  <Brianetta> for a while
11:28:38  <Brianetta> damn, desync
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11:29:12  <blathijs> "all three" ?
11:29:24  <Brianetta> OK, it's not YAPF
11:29:32  <Brianetta> patch yapf.ship_use_yapf off
11:29:32  <Brianetta> patch yapf.road_use_yapf off
11:29:32  <Brianetta> patch yapf.rail_use_yapf off
11:29:38  <Brianetta> Still desynced
11:29:40  <Brianetta> just took longer
11:31:12  <peter1138> you reconnected after turning it off?
11:32:37  <Brianetta> yes
11:32:46  <Brianetta> OK, let's see
11:33:25  <Brianetta> OK, you need to specify 0 not off
11:33:30  <Brianetta> so it wasn't disabled
11:33:33  <Brianetta> but it is now
11:33:39  <Brianetta> and I'm not desyncing
11:33:42  <Brianetta> Oh yes, I am
11:33:47  <Brianetta> Well, there we go
11:33:51  <Brianetta> YAPF is innocent
11:34:10  * KUDr unhides
11:34:24  <Brianetta> (:
11:34:57  <peter1138> *nod*
11:35:13  <peter1138> even if it wasn't, it's most likely something else causing it to make wrong decisions
11:35:31  <Brianetta> The game's getting chopy
11:35:36  <Brianetta> The players are grumbling
11:35:38  <peter1138> NPF? heh
11:35:47  <Brianetta> I can't comment, because I can't get on for more than half a minute
11:35:51  <Brianetta> NPF is off
11:35:54  <Brianetta> YAPF is on
11:36:02  <Brianetta> fallback should be NTP/OPF
11:36:28  <stillunknown> you run more than one server?
11:36:30  <stillunknown> iirc
11:36:53  <Brianetta> At the moment, there are two paused
11:38:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i had those desync errors often, could never find out why
11:38:35  <Brianetta> Yes
11:38:39  <Brianetta> And after a while, they go away
11:38:44  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
11:38:48  <Brianetta> Usually, when Darkvater connects to have a look
11:38:51  <peter1138> :D
11:38:55  <roboboy> heh
11:39:23  <Gonozal_VIII> less likely to desync when all trains are stopped
11:39:34  <peter1138> obviously
11:39:36  <Brianetta> Do the newgrfs definitely get loaded in the correct order?
11:39:42  <Brianetta> Desync, bah
11:39:46  <peter1138> yes
11:40:25  <peter1138> you can check by comparing the gui
11:40:26  <Brianetta> It's desyncing in under a minute
11:40:27  <Gonozal_VIII> we even had the same game folder with newgrf and all
11:40:44  <Brianetta> sometimes within seconds
11:40:47  <peter1138> yeah, well, we ruled out different grfs with the md5sum check :D
11:41:06  <peter1138> (so "har" at tron who insisted it was only that...)
11:41:16  <hylje> but did you rule out different newgrf orderings
11:41:24  <peter1138> 11:37 < Brianetta> Do the newgrfs definitely get loaded in the correct order?
11:41:26  <peter1138> 11:37 < peter1138> yes
11:41:31  <Brianetta> peter1138: You even manage to stomp all over the DOS palletted guys (:
11:41:44  <Gonozal_VIII> it seems to happen more often, when some trains have to wait somewhere... but not only then
11:41:54  <peter1138> yes
11:41:55  <peter1138> hehe
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11:43:46  <Gonozal_VIII> could it be something that some calculations get delayed with different cpus or such when there is much to do like jammed trains?
11:44:01  <peter1138> no
11:44:13  <peter1138> it is not threaded
11:44:33  <Brianetta> The game is deterministic
11:44:37  <Brianetta> totally predictable
11:44:41  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
11:44:57  <Brianetta> so as long as all commands are sent, the game should be sumulated in lock-step on all clients
11:44:59  <Gonozal_VIII> obviously not totally predictable...
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11:45:33  <Brianetta> What we have is either a base state difference (game wasn't loaded correctly after connecting) or a command not being forwarded properly.
11:45:43  <Brianetta> Since all the players on my server have not desynced,
11:45:49  <Brianetta> but both me and another new player have,
11:45:53  <Brianetta> it's more likely to be the game load
11:45:54  <blathijs> Or a command not excuted properly
11:45:58  <peter1138> not game load
11:46:04  <peter1138> more likely is game save not saving properly
11:46:16  <Brianetta> Well, some stage in the state transfer
11:46:35  <Brianetta> Whatever it is, there's clearly a bug in the release candidate
11:46:55  <Brianetta> 11:46 <sarah_pilot> roboboy: im connecting a second time to see if i desync
11:46:56  <Brianetta> 11:46 <sarah_pilot> scia: you do roboboy
11:46:58  <Gonozal_VIII> but sometimes it desyncs 20times in a row right after joining and then it works normal for hours...
11:47:00  <Brianetta> roboboy the hero
11:47:13  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, it does
11:47:19  <roboboy> deynced
11:47:20  <blathijs> Brianetta: But only one client desyncs, while others stay connected?
11:47:21  <Brianetta> 11:47 <sarah_pilot> roboboy #1 has joined the game
11:47:21  <Brianetta> 11:47 <sarah_pilot> roboboy #1 has left the game (desync error)
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11:47:27  <Brianetta> blathijs: Yes
11:47:35  <roboboy> but my original conection stayed
11:47:37  <Brianetta> And, like I said, eventually the problem seems to go away
11:47:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i never found something to predict the desyncs
11:48:14  <peter1138> roboboy: and that gives weight to game save/load not being quite right
11:48:26  <Brianetta> Akalamanaia just quit and rejoined
11:48:27  <Brianetta> sucker
11:48:32  <Brianetta> roboboy joined twice
11:48:34  <Darkvater> morning
11:48:41  <Darkvater> :)
11:48:42  <Brianetta> Darkvater: That desync problem is back
11:48:48  <Darkvater> heh I disconnected
11:48:49  <Brianetta> and it aint YAPF
11:49:01  <Darkvater> I seem to have lost my healing powers
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11:50:40  <Brianetta> 11:50 <Brianetta> Oh wait, DV is here
11:50:40  <Brianetta> 11:50 <sarah_pilot> Darkvater has left the game (desync error)
11:50:40  <Brianetta> 11:50 <Brianetta> Damnit, he usually makes the problem go away
11:50:48  <Darkvater> it isn't animated_tiles either
11:51:07  <scia> This is the second time I've witnessed this problem
11:51:16  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes after my provider disconnected me (they do that every 8 hours) i'm more likely to desync
11:51:17  <Darkvater> I'll have a look later on if you're still running the server
11:51:21  <Brianetta> It isn't my first time
11:51:24  <Darkvater> I have to find a new tv ;p
11:51:26  <Brianetta> Darkvater: It'll be running
11:51:27  <roboboy> should we all disconect and you reset the server?
11:51:29  * Sacro tries to join the standard server...
11:51:38  <Brianetta> but bear in mind that the problem has corrected itself int he past
11:52:49  <peter1138> hmm
11:52:51  <Gonozal_VIII> always corrects itself eventually...
11:52:55  <peter1138> tum te tum
11:53:31  <Gonozal_VIII> restarting the server doesn't influence it
11:53:44  <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: It should!
11:53:51  <Gonozal_VIII> but it doesn't
11:53:58  <Darkvater> is anybody using any static grf's?
11:53:59  <Brianetta> unless saving to file uses a different routine than saving to a client
11:54:03  <Brianetta> I am
11:54:06  <Brianetta> dutchcat
11:54:32  <roboboy> im not
11:54:49  <Celestar> Darkvater: yousa around?
11:54:50  <Brianetta> I did use uk level crossings and uk fences last night
11:55:04  <Brianetta> I tried uk roads, but it got flagged as unsafe and was removed
11:55:10  <Gonozal_VIII> we often tried to save the game, reload it, restart the server, nothing changed it...
11:55:18  <Brianetta> I played with those until 2am
11:55:43  <peter1138> yeah, it alters bridges
11:55:46  <peter1138> i might sort that out
11:56:00  <scia> I'm not using static grf's
11:56:02  <Darkvater> Celestar: kinda
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11:56:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: ok. feedback? :
11:56:51  <Celestar> :)
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11:58:13  <Celestar> Rubidium: where does configure try to find gcc?
11:58:50  <Brianetta> Is there a way to reset a company password?
11:58:55  <Brianetta> from the dedicated console
11:59:18  * Maedhros wonders if the desyncs have anything to do with r7818
11:59:30  <Gonozal_VIII> no, they are old
11:59:42  <Darkvater> Maedhros: this is 0.5.0-RC2
11:59:43  <Brianetta> I got my first desync when I was playing with my train liveries
11:59:48  <Maedhros> oh, ok
12:00:13  <Gonozal_VIII> also happened with r6xxx
12:01:35  <peter1138> Brianetta: the 2cc liveries? or refit liveries?
12:01:42  <peter1138> hmm, ukrs doesn't have refit liveries, so 2cc...
12:01:50  <peter1138> av8 does though
12:01:53  <Rubidium> Celestar: in the 'local' search paths
12:02:16  <Brianetta> 2cc
12:02:17  <Rubidium> it just tries to execute gcc
12:02:48  <Brianetta> My client went beserk, but that might have ben compiz crashing, which happened at around the same time (:
12:02:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> what about a memory "snapshot", saving the game, reloading it, and making a second "snapshot"
12:03:17  <Brianetta> Actually, I'm trying to dump the game's runtime image so aI can find Akalamanaia's password for him
12:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then comparing corresponding parts
12:03:29  <Brianetta> but I'm not having luck with /proc
12:04:22  <Brianetta> reading `/proc/11456/mem': No such process
12:04:24  <Darkvater> akalmania doesn't know his own password anymore? ;)
12:04:25  <Brianetta> ):
12:06:31  <Brianetta> He forgot it (:
12:06:43  <Brianetta> I don't know enough gdb to get it to assist
12:06:59  <Brianetta> speaking of that, would shell access help?
12:07:21  <Brianetta> damnit, it's a stripped executable
12:09:18  <Darkvater> it should be in _network_player_info[player].password
12:09:30  <Darkvater> it's a global variable so it doesn't matter if it's stripped
12:09:59  <Brianetta> ta
12:10:12  <Darkvater> but you would need a debug-database or something donnu how that works in *nix
12:11:18  <Brianetta> It doesn't
12:11:21  <hylje> :o
12:12:31  <stillunknown> debug symbols
12:12:44  <stillunknown> often stripped, in this case with a release built
12:12:49  <stillunknown> *build
12:13:10  <Darkvater> you cannot make another binary and make an external debug-db?
12:13:15  <Darkvater> that's how windows does it
12:13:30  <Darkvater> you got your stripped executable and a .pdb file with all the debugging info
12:13:43  <Brianetta> Like I said, I don't know enough gdb
12:14:00  <Brianetta> I was planning to just dump core somehow, and rn strings on it
12:14:31  <Maedhros> you can - gentoo can do some magic with splitting the debug info out of the executable. i have no idea how they do it though...
12:16:03  <stillunknown> it's called stripping
12:16:09  <stillunknown> but i don't think it can be undone
12:16:16  <stillunknown> ofcource i'm not sure
12:18:39  <Sacro> you cant undo a strip
12:20:33  <stillunknown> sometimes an assert, or even a segfault is nice, gives you a place to start
12:21:22  <Brianetta> Sure.  Both of which stop the server.
12:21:37  <Brianetta> Stopping the server would render all passwords lost anyway.
12:21:54  <Brianetta> I am *not* writing an autopilot routine to poke passwords back in (:
12:21:59  <hylje> :3
12:22:23  <stillunknown> however a segfault is only usefull when run trough a debugger
12:22:35  <ArmEagle> hey, i forgot my password a couple of times too. only once i got desynced :)
12:23:02  <ArmEagle> and another time i just didn't put a password in, and then after a long while my trains started to act very weird :)
12:23:20  <Darkvater> hmm I guess you people won't be happy if I code a feature in that a new company always gets a random password do you then?
12:23:23  <stillunknown> bad weird or good weird?
12:23:25  <ArmEagle> sure took me some time to figure out someone else was messing with my train :)
12:23:27  <Brianetta> memfetch
12:23:32  <Celestar> stillunknown: you did some cbhtesting yesterday?
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12:23:38  <Brianetta> a utility for dumping the memory of a running process
12:23:40  <stillunknown> Celestar: yes
12:23:45  <Celestar> stillunknown: ... and. ?
12:23:56  <Brianetta> ooh, memgrep
12:24:01  <stillunknown> turning around on bridges gives assert
12:24:15  <ArmEagle> Darkvater i guess it will be fine if you store the passwords in some textfile :)
12:24:31  <ArmEagle> ..the game should just remember the last password used for a server/company combo
12:24:32  <stillunknown> blowing up the bridge heads prevents building a new one, but the graphics stay
12:24:42  <Brianetta> Passwords should ideally be put in the saved game (when saved to disk only).
12:24:44  <stillunknown> so it's useless
12:24:49  <stillunknown> with a train on it
12:24:51  <Darkvater> ArmEagle: it shouldn't remember it because it'd be sent to all clients
12:25:14  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Perhaps a secondary saved file
12:25:18  <Brianetta> eight lines
12:25:24  <Brianetta> one string per line
12:25:55  <Celestar> stillunknown: will check later
12:25:55  <Brianetta> which can optionally be specified in addition to -D -g file.sav
12:26:10  <Brianetta> otherwise reverting to no passwords
12:26:17  <Darkvater> he
12:26:28  <ArmEagle> Darkvater why would it? Well, i guess it's some design issue.. But it would be handy if it would save it..
12:27:05  <stillunknown> Celestar: KUDr said (in not so many words) that he knew about the problems
12:27:13  <Celestar> stillunknown: ok
12:27:16  <Darkvater> ArmEagle: if it is saved I could join as spectator open the savegame in a hexeditor and 'steal' your pw to join your passworded company
12:27:16  <ArmEagle> well i'd say just use a multiplayer.pwd file. where a server+company string is the identifier for a password
12:27:28  <stillunknown> Celestar: so easier to ping him and get feedback
12:27:35  <Celestar> stillunknown: ok
12:27:37  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's what hashes are for
12:27:52  <ArmEagle> ..or yes, i could use a default password everytime... (but i don't play enough multiplayer for that .. :)
12:28:00  <Darkvater> peter1138: that doesn't help at all if someone forgets the password :)
12:28:15  <peter1138> basically
12:28:27  <peter1138> the solution is a console command to reset just the password
12:28:59  <Darkvater> hmm
12:29:13  <Darkvater> resetpw is good (server only)
12:29:21  <ArmEagle> can't the server-owner clear a password? One once told me he c.. exactly
12:29:22  <Darkvater> and the company pw saved to the config file
12:29:28  <ArmEagle> just need an active owner though
12:29:45  <Darkvater> server can't clear pw's at the moment
12:29:48  <ArmEagle> oh.
12:30:21  <Darkvater> only a player in a company can; which is even buggy cause if two people play one won't know if the other has changed the pw
12:30:32  <ArmEagle> check
12:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: maybe this is related to you proc/*/mem problem
12:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause3>
12:32:33  * Brianetta looks
12:36:29  <peter1138> su -
12:36:29  <peter1138> er
12:36:29  <peter1138> :D
12:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> would have been funnier if you noticed it only after you typed in the root password ;)
12:37:33  * peter1138 is running an RC2 server under gdb
12:38:00  * peter1138 suspects that it won't desync just yet
12:38:03  <peter1138> as the date is 1920-01-01
12:39:31  <peter1138> heh
12:39:38  <peter1138> the signal bugs in RC2 are horrible
12:39:59  <Celestar> hehe
12:40:05  * Darkvater whistles innocently and points at Celestar
12:40:14  <peter1138> no, KUDr  :P
12:40:26  <Celestar> stillunknown: so assert when reversing, and bridge removal problems?
12:40:39  <peter1138>
12:40:51  <stillunknown> yes, btw the bridgehead was not the usual one when destroying
12:40:58  <stillunknown> and there was a train on the bridge
12:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> the engine looks kinda tiny
12:41:47  <peter1138> well it is
12:42:01  <peter1138> bug that signal shouldn't be red :)
12:42:07  <peter1138> Darkvater: when's RC3?
12:42:16  <peter1138> weekend again?
12:42:20  <Darkvater> fri/sat
12:42:20  <Darkvater> yeah
12:42:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i noticed the bug ;)
12:42:27  <peter1138> i'm surprised no-one's reported this one
12:42:40  <Darkvater> I'd be delighted if someone would have an idea about
12:42:57  <peter1138> it's a sf link! hide!
12:43:25  <peter1138> Darkvater: is there an english translation?
12:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have trouble even loading it
12:43:48  <Darkvater> it is in english :)
12:43:54  <peter1138> no, it doesn't parse
12:44:00  <Darkvater> basically...look in the screenshot
12:44:24  <peter1138> Open with Windows Picture and Fax Viewer
12:44:29  <Darkvater> querytool says there is no bridge at all there (just at the bridge heads) it can be drawn then even is without me
12:44:31  <peter1138> wtf have sf done to image links...
12:44:41  <Darkvater> it's always been lik that :(
12:44:58  <peter1138> ok, so half-road
12:46:35  <Darkvater> indeed
12:46:38  <Darkvater> sharp :)
12:46:38  <peter1138> it certainly smells of overflow
12:46:47  <Darkvater> we can't have bridges over half-road?
12:46:50  <peter1138> no
12:46:53  <peter1138> the half road should be cleared
12:47:10  <peter1138> the user's money is "quite high"
12:47:13  <Darkvater> it's not cleared because it's a town-road...insufficient rating?
12:47:15  <peter1138> so...
12:47:28  <Darkvater> the money is only 2 billion
12:47:40  <peter1138> just enough to overflow an int32
12:47:45  <peter1138> well
12:47:51  <peter1138> that should be irrelevent... who knows
12:48:00  <Celestar> stillunknown: I cannot reproduce the problem with tearing down bridges?
12:48:02  <Darkvater> no cause command fails and it's checked with CmdSuccess
12:48:35  <Celestar> why do we still have int32 money`
12:48:48  <peter1138> Celestar: all the commands return int32
12:49:26  <Celestar> I had a command patch somewhere for this problem :P
12:49:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean one can still exploit the "long tunnel on sea level" bug?
12:49:46  <Celestar> which changed the return type
12:53:02  <ArmEagle> hmm, thats even dumber than not being able to build bridges over diagonal track :)
12:55:24  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: no
12:55:38  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: notice tunnels top out at 400,000,000 ?
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12:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, never tried long tunnels in ottd
12:56:06  <peter1138> heh
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13:15:43  <Celestar> stillunknown: I can't seem to reproduce the assert problem either :P
13:29:18  <Maedhros> yay! my diagonal crossings patch is (functionally) finished again :)
13:29:21  <Maedhros>
13:29:27  <Celestar> Maedhros: :)
13:35:53  <Celestar> Maedhros: what about new sprites? :P
13:36:50  <Maedhros> Celestar: ;)
13:36:57  <Celestar> hehe ok :)
13:37:10  <Celestar> I think peter1138 and Darkvater would move to check it :P
13:37:12  <Celestar> *runs*
13:37:14  <peter1138> move?
13:37:20  <Celestar> love*
13:37:24  <peter1138> ahh
13:37:32  <Celestar> or move their arses
13:37:33  <peter1138> i'd put new sprites in openttd.grf though, heh
13:37:35  <Celestar> *runs faster*
13:37:37  <peter1138> but that's a bit tricky with a diff
13:37:39  <peter1138> i think
13:37:44  <peter1138> binary file 'n all
13:37:46  <Darkvater> I'd rip apart openttd.grf
13:37:53  <Darkvater> throw out all the fonts
13:37:55  <peter1138> hmm
13:37:59  <peter1138> yeah, we could
13:38:20  <Darkvater> and bungle unifont or something
13:38:25  <Darkvater> d^
13:38:29  <peter1138> unifont doesn't contain that much
13:38:33  <peter1138> no polish chars
13:38:41  <peter1138> well, not all of 'em
13:39:07  <Darkvater> well some comprehensive font-grf then, but you get the drift
13:39:12  <peter1138> :)
13:40:12  * Darkvater gets back to testing his news-rash
13:40:14  <Darkvater> crash
13:41:32  <Celestar> his news-rash crashed
13:42:08  <peter1138> hmm, paramset
13:42:58  <peter1138> damn, i have to make that safe too :P
13:45:01  <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium we need to discuss something with KUDr :P
13:45:16  <peter1138> no c++ :P
13:45:46  * Celestar thinks peter1138 really needs to learn it :P
13:46:02  <Rubidium> what?
13:48:03  <peter1138> i tried
13:48:14  <peter1138> i was told it was "too much like a c coder writing c++"
13:48:32  <peter1138> maybe i should use bad coding style
13:48:32  <Celestar> lol
13:48:42  <peter1138> like yapf :P
13:48:48  <Celestar> I think a conversion would be something  ... slow
13:48:59  <Celestar> peter1138: :P what's so bad about yapf *runs*
13:49:29  <KUDr> i would need few days to convers
13:49:32  <KUDr> t
13:49:42  <KUDr> and then you can see it
13:49:51  <KUDr> and tell what you think
13:50:11  <KUDr> then i can change something and next iteration
13:50:18  <KUDr> or cancel it
13:50:41  <Celestar> I for one, would really like to look at it, fwiw
13:52:18  <peter1138> Celestar:
13:52:23  <peter1138> (probably doesn't apply any more)
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13:53:02  <peter1138> hmm, and train_cmd.c lol
13:53:13  <Celestar> peter1138: we're talking mainly about whitespace usage and bracing?
13:53:18  <peter1138> mainly, yes
13:53:29  <peter1138> it makes a big difference to making the code readable, to me
13:53:44  <Darkvater> anyone want to test a news-crash-fifo-patch-in-progress?
13:53:48  <Darkvater>
13:53:56  <Celestar> peter1138: well, sway KUDr to adapt it :)
13:54:09  <peter1138> well he's seen the patch
13:54:13  <peter1138> and nothign happened :P
13:54:32  <Darkvater> basically DeleteVehicleNews messes around with the newsitems in _news_items[] causing any open news-windows NewsItem* to be wrong and _current_news/_forced_news point to the wrong item
13:54:52  <Darkvater> I think I got it all fixed up, but not sure
13:55:06  <Celestar> KUDr: what about peter's patch?
13:55:21  <KUDr> what patch?
13:55:30  <KUDr> for multiline functions?
13:55:35  <Celestar> yeah
13:55:39  <KUDr> yes
13:55:45  <peter1138> multiline, spacing & bracing
13:55:49  <Celestar> (we need to set up some C++ coding guidelines as well)
13:55:50  <KUDr> i agreed with it
13:55:54  <peter1138> o_O
13:56:06  <Celestar> so peter1138 forgot to apply? :)
13:56:07  <Darkvater> he I love communication ^^
13:56:15  <KUDr> hehe
13:56:16  <peter1138> well we agree at least ;)
13:56:24  <KUDr> i am not agains it
13:56:26  <peter1138> heh
13:56:29  <KUDr> just on more lines
13:56:31  <peter1138> different to agreeing, yes
13:57:03  <peter1138> frankly, some of it looks a bit like perl
13:57:04  <peter1138> and that scares me ;)
13:57:07  <KUDr> but it changed nothing and i am not the one who wants to keep that 'bad style' with single line funcs
13:57:12  <Celestar> HAHA
13:57:23  <Celestar> I kind of understand what peter means
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13:57:29  <peter1138> KUDr: well they are your single linke funcs...
13:57:36  <Celestar> because of the special chars :P
13:57:37  <peter1138> -k
13:57:42  <Maedhros> morning Belugas
13:57:46  <Sacro> lo Belugas
13:57:57  <Belugas> hello guys :)
13:58:07  <Celestar> hi Belugas
13:58:12  <Celestar> KUDr: I'd say .. give it a shot :)
13:58:32  <KUDr> shot?
13:58:43  <Celestar> that means "try it" :)
13:58:55  <KUDr> the cpp branch?
13:59:07  <Celestar> yeah
13:59:13  <KUDr> ok
13:59:20  <KUDr> everybody agrees?
13:59:33  <stillunknown> KUDr: did you fix the cbh issues i told you yesterday?
13:59:42  <KUDr> not all
13:59:48  <KUDr> Celestar works on it
13:59:50  <KUDr> i hope
13:59:55  <Celestar> KUDr: which ones? I have trouble reproducting them.
13:59:59  <KUDr> reversing on bridge
14:00:03  <KUDr> and so on
14:00:15  <KUDr> NTP now works fine i think
14:00:24  <KUDr> also YAPF should
14:00:30  <Celestar> ntp does work fine for me apparently
14:00:37  <KUDr> ahh
14:00:44  <KUDr> need case
14:00:49  <Darkvater> I agree but make the commits clear :)
14:00:50  <KUDr> to look at it
14:00:56  <stillunknown> Celestar: want a savegame for the reverse problem?
14:01:00  <Celestar> stillunknown: yes please
14:01:05  <Darkvater> and I'm probably selfish; but...
14:01:18  <Darkvater> leave some conversion to (us/me) as well ;)
14:01:32  <KUDr> <Darkvater> I agree but make the commits clear :) << in the cpp branch?
14:01:36  <Darkvater> yes
14:03:03  <KUDr> ok
14:03:22  <peter1138> rewrite in c++ :D
14:03:35  <stillunknown> Celestar: should i make an account on the bugtracker or mail you the savegame?
14:03:44  <Celestar> KUDr: while converting, all the new stuff should be doxygenned
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14:04:00  <KUDr> ok
14:05:22  * Belugas votes for c++
14:05:31  <Belugas> althoug i should start learning it...
14:05:45  <Darkvater> Celestar: what new stuff?
14:06:28  <KUDr> templates for typesafe programming instead of using typecasts as in the old cpp pach
14:06:32  <KUDr> +t
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14:07:46  <KUDr> like using MallocT(&ptr, num_items); instead of ptr = (ProperType*)malloc(num_items * sizeof(*ptr));
14:08:39  <Darkvater> isn't that just new ptr_type[num_items] ?
14:08:56  <stillunknown> Celestar:
14:09:25  <KUDr> it can be used too if you want to constuct them also
14:10:35  <peter1138> see, we need a c++ code style already
14:11:04  <KUDr> but MallocT is better trackable (selectively) like you can DEBUG(...) all ProperType allocations but not others
14:11:24  <KUDr> peter1138: guide?
14:11:25  <stillunknown> what about enum's? (i remember someone once telling me they are not type safe)
14:12:00  <KUDr> stillunknown: Celestar can explain you how safe they are
14:12:04  <peter1138> doesn't c++ support non-int enums?
14:12:09  <peter1138> or is that something else
14:12:14  <KUDr> he just saw it in action
14:12:28  <KUDr> peter1138: nope
14:12:37  <KUDr> but they can be simulated
14:12:39  <KUDr> easily
14:13:19  <KUDr> and stay 1 byte and still typesafe
14:13:29  <KUDr> for structures
14:13:39  <KUDr> we use byte instead of it
14:13:45  <KUDr> and it is not safe
14:13:56  <KUDr> you can assing anything to it
14:14:06  <KUDr> like Track instead of Trackdir
14:14:20  <KUDr> but it is easy to solve
14:14:29  <peter1138> hmm
14:14:42  <peter1138> bugger
14:14:53  <KUDr> but guys: you will need some lesson that Celestar has got just now
14:15:20  <stillunknown> what did you tell Celestar?
14:15:34  <KUDr> online VNC lesson
14:15:40  <KUDr> about templates
14:15:43  <Darkvater> he promised him his wife
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14:15:56  <KUDr> so he can now undertand all of the YAPF stuff
14:16:22  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has joined #openttd
14:16:32  <TrueBrain> I am going to regret this question, but: anyone on OS/2 around?
14:16:45  * Darkvater points in the general direction of orudge`
14:16:55  <KUDr> for you guys it is only few hours and you will be familiar with it
14:16:57  <peter1138> TrueBrain: regret that? what about c++? :P
14:17:02  <orudge`> Hello
14:17:03  * orudge` is
14:17:05  *** orudge` is now known as orudge
14:17:09  <TrueBrain> orudge!! :)
14:17:11  <TrueBrain> your name tricked me :(
14:17:11  <orudge> as you know ;)
14:17:20  <orudge> Sorry, it just meant that I'd been disconnected at some point :p
14:17:25  <TrueBrain> peter1138: what has those 2 to do with eachother? :)
14:17:31  <orudge> Ah, yes
14:17:34  * orudge checks his logs from your messages
14:17:40  <TrueBrain> orudge: do you have time for a little test? :)
14:18:40  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-172-57.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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14:20:39  <Sacro> :o 2 os/2 users
14:20:50  * Sacro covers ears and waits for the universe to asplode
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14:30:00  * TrueBrain slaps Sacro
14:30:08  <Sacro> ><
14:30:11  <Sacro> ow
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14:31:00  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
14:32:08  <Darkvater> any idea what we want to do about this bug?
14:32:10  <Darkvater>
14:32:23  <Darkvater> building a bouy changes canal owner to non so you can do anything with it
14:32:26  <Darkvater> none
14:32:35  <peter1138> give buoys owners?
14:32:46  <Celestar> buoys have owners
14:32:50  <Celestar> buoys are stations
14:32:52  <peter1138> no they don't
14:32:56  <peter1138> well, ok they do
14:33:02  <peter1138> but it's always owner_none
14:33:15  <Darkvater> it's not bouys that are the problem
14:33:21  <peter1138> either give buoys an owner, and leave them as owned
14:33:22  <peter1138> or
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14:33:35  <Darkvater> A builds canal, B builds bouy on A's canal, A's canal becomes unowned
14:33:39  <peter1138> give them an owner, and ignore the owner until it's removed... then the canal tile gets that owner
14:33:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: yeah, but the buoy needs modification to remember the owner
14:34:01  <peter1138> also
14:34:10  <Darkvater> ignore bouy's owner?
14:34:12  <peter1138> buoys need modification to count up from 1, not down from 9 :)
14:34:22  <Darkvater> count what?
14:34:27  <peter1138> their number
14:34:37  * Darkvater is puzzled
14:34:47  <peter1138> ...
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14:34:52  <peter1138> you don't play with ships do you? :P
14:34:58  <Darkvater> nop
14:35:11  <Darkvater> I guess I need a look in the code to get what you're saying
14:35:24  <peter1138> i placed a single buoy
14:35:33  <peter1138> it's name is "Town Buoy 9"
14:35:38  <Darkvater> why 9?
14:35:43  <peter1138> i place another, and the name is Town Buoy 8
14:35:47  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
14:35:49  <peter1138> well that's precisely my point
14:40:21  <Darkvater> A builds canal B builds bouy on A's canal
14:40:55  <Darkvater> who owns what? Cause only one person can own a station-tile
14:42:08  <peter1138> no
14:42:12  <peter1138> hmm
14:42:53  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has left #openttd [So long and tnx for all the fish]
14:43:01  <Darkvater> hmm
14:43:06  <Darkvater> CmdBuildBouy
14:43:06  <Celestar> stillunknown: can you upload the savegame to somewhere?
14:43:11  <Darkvater> st->owner = OWNER_NONE
14:43:23  <Darkvater> MakeBouy: MakeStation(t, OWNER_NONE, sid, GFX_BUOY_BASE);
14:43:28  <peter1138> yeah
14:44:00  <Darkvater> basically bouys are up for grabs and everyone can remove them...
14:44:24  <peter1138> yes
14:44:29  <Darkvater> but also, everyone can use them (and you're screwed if another player removes "his" bouy)
14:44:38  <peter1138> yes
14:44:43  <Darkvater> so
14:44:46  <Darkvater> what to do? :)
14:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... shouldn't buoys use the same ownership model as canals?
14:45:00  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: probably
14:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> like: anyone can use them, but only owner can remove them
14:45:08  *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:45:24  <Darkvater> only canal owner can build bouy on canal you mean?
14:45:25  <Noldo> Darkvater: make it so that they can be removed only if no ship uses them
14:45:43  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> back in TTO, nobody could remove buoys
14:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was annoying as hell
14:46:57  <peter1138> heh
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14:49:20  <SpComb> Logs:
14:49:20  <Digitalfox> !logs
14:49:49  <Darkvater> will get back to you on this bouy thingafter news
14:50:41  <stillunknown> Celestar: reminder,
14:50:53  <stillunknown> savegame is there
14:51:41  <Celestar> stillunknown: ok
14:53:29  <Celestar> [X] I HATE FIREFOX
14:55:15  <Darkvater> opera forever!
14:55:19  <Celestar> stillunknown: I can't get this game to assert
14:56:01  <stillunknown> to confirm, it's the junction and 3 trains?
14:56:24  <Celestar> I see a single engine
14:56:32  <Celestar> driving around a rather messy layout
14:56:43  <Celestar> near Bruburg
14:57:01  <stillunknown> in this case, duplicate the train 2 times (i thought i saved it with that)
14:57:06  <stillunknown> and wait a minute or two
14:57:27  <stillunknown> they will stall on the bridges at some point
14:58:37  <Celestar> nope ..
14:58:45  <peter1138> using the same version? heh
14:59:13  <stillunknown> the trains do stall?
14:59:27  <stillunknown> on the bridges
14:59:31  <Celestar> <= this savegame
15:00:22  <stillunknown> i gave you the wrong one, i thought i'd checked that
15:00:38  <stillunknown> the junction is the one, the trains are not
15:00:40  <Darkvater> :O
15:00:49  <Celestar> stillunknown: then upload again :)
15:00:53  <stillunknown> i will
15:02:30  <stillunknown>
15:02:33  <stillunknown> Celestar
15:03:13  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:03:46  <Celestar> stillunknown: yeah
15:05:09  <stillunknown> i don't have a savegame for the other problem, but i think i know what i did, so if you need it
15:05:22  <Celestar> later
15:06:26  <Brianetta> Nobody could connect without desyncs
15:06:35  <Brianetta> so I reloaded the server
15:08:44  <Darkvater> and?
15:09:15  <Celestar> <= nice one stillunknown
15:10:04  <Darkvater> I think someone lost some wagons there :O
15:10:10  <Biff> nice
15:10:25  <Biff> so does the wagons continue their own way?
15:10:37  <Rubidium> not for long :)
15:12:24  *** Zaviori is now known as Zavior
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15:13:57  <ArmEagle> Maedhros hmm, is that your patch that allows signals under bridges too?
15:14:12  <Celestar> Biff: not until the safeguard systems stops it :)
15:14:29  <Maedhros> ArmEagle: nope, that's nothing to do with me
15:14:34  <Biff> oh
15:14:39  <ArmEagle> oh, just noticed that i was able to do that :)
15:14:52  <Maedhros> that's tron, Celestar, and everyone else who worked on the bridge branch :)
15:14:57  <Biff> ArmEagle: that happened in the brigde merge
15:15:04  <ArmEagle> ah k
15:15:06  <Biff> <-- slow
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15:21:26  <Darkvater> < anyone a better idea?
15:22:19  <peter1138> yeah
15:22:22  <peter1138> remove the whole news system
15:22:37  <Darkvater> ..
15:22:59  <peter1138> adding commented out code!
15:23:11  <Darkvater> that's on purpose
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15:23:34  <peter1138> i know
15:23:42  <peter1138> it's for me to bitch about!
15:24:08  <Darkvater> he
15:24:20  <Darkvater> I was thinking of serious ideas
15:24:54  <peter1138> ohhh
15:25:05  <peter1138> them
15:25:06  <peter1138> hmm
15:25:14  <Darkvater> shocking, ain't it? :)
15:28:11  <Celestar>
15:28:29  <Celestar> now is this train connected or not?
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15:36:16  <peter1138> hmm
15:36:30  <peter1138> have we got any big features we can introduce just before 0.5.0 release? :D
15:36:52  <Celestar> :P
15:36:54  <Celestar> bridges? :P
15:36:59  <KUDr> yes
15:37:05  <KUDr> bridges
15:37:13  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7820 /masterserver/udp.cpp:
15:37:13  <CIA-1> [MasterServer] -Fix: be more strict about the socket from where packets arrive. Requesting the client list should not be done on the socket that the masterserver uses for querying game servers.
15:37:13  <CIA-1> [MasterServer] -Fix: send the NewGRF query via the query socket, not the master socket.
15:37:56  <Darkvater> newhouses!
15:39:05  <Celestar> damnit
15:39:16  <Celestar> the code is entering the wormhole one unit to early :S
15:39:36  <KUDr> hmm
15:40:08  <Celestar> KUDr: it is ok for bridges to north, because x & 0xF will be 0
15:40:18  <Celestar> for bridges to the south, x & 0xF is 15.
15:40:28  <Celestar> cause the train to enter the wormhole too early.
15:40:45  *** MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40:48  <KUDr> hmm
15:41:06  <KUDr> but next frame it is on different tile
15:41:11  <Celestar> not if the train stops
15:41:18  <KUDr> that has nothing to do with bridge
15:41:19  <Celestar> and then reverses.
15:41:26  <KUDr> ahh
15:41:32  <KUDr> hmm
15:41:41  <Celestar> (might have been the same problem with the signals)
15:41:54  <KUDr> yes
15:42:13  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7821 /trunk/src/network/ (core/udp.c core/udp.h network_udp.c): -Fix: be more strict about the socket from where packets arrive. Do not accept requests about the game server on the master/client socket, do not accept master server acks on the client/server socket, etc.
15:43:19  <Celestar> I might have a solution/workaround
15:44:12  <Celestar> testing theory
15:44:15  <peter1138> hmm
15:44:17  <peter1138> i remember now
15:44:24  <peter1138> i need to fix the GOINGUP/DOWN detection
15:50:11  <caladan> hi
15:50:18  <Celestar> heyo caladan
15:50:23  <caladan> how's the map rewriting idea?
15:50:36  <Celestar> progressin
15:50:56  <caladan> so what's going on now? which option has won?
15:51:13  <Celestar> it seems that KUDr's option has won for the time being ;)
15:51:13  <peter1138> c++ conversion first, apparently
15:51:24  <peter1138> i suppose it gets away from the real issue at hand ;p
15:51:48  <caladan> c->c++ for maps or for all?
15:52:12  <Celestar> caladan: where it needs be
15:52:16  <Brianetta> 15:51 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta: The Beeching Axe has fallen
15:52:17  <Brianetta> (:
15:52:34  <Celestar> caladan: C++ gives us more powerful options for the map code
15:52:36  <Celestar> rewrite
15:52:53  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:53:01  <caladan> i know
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15:53:10  <caladan> if i could be of any help, just say :-)
15:53:21  <Celestar> as soon as KUDr has created the c++ branch
15:53:34  <Celestar> caladan: we just first need to fix the remaining cbh issues
15:53:39  <KUDr> it is the simplest part :)
15:54:48  <peter1138> Brianetta: what did you do?
15:55:25  <Celestar> wow
15:55:30  <Celestar> class templates are nice
15:55:40  * Celestar imagines polymorphic class templates
15:55:51  * Celestar stops imagining polymorphic class templates
15:56:29  <caladan> what's the name of that branch?
15:56:40  <Celestar> it has not been created yet
15:56:44  <caladan> ah, ok
15:58:32  <Brianetta> peter1138: Deleted hundreds of miles of mainline
15:58:39  <Brianetta> If you look carefully you can see where they went
15:58:43  <Brianetta> and there's teh odd bridge
15:59:23  <Celestar> what version are you playing?
15:59:29  <Brianetta> RC2
16:00:05  <Celestar> ah
16:00:11  <Celestar> which server?
16:00:40  * caladan connected + with - :/
16:00:51  <Brianetta> My standard
16:02:09  * caladan breathes stable again - the protection worked :D
16:03:22  <Celestar> Brianetta: can't find your server?
16:04:08  <Digitalfox> But will this new branch in c++ atempt, bring more future features or just better code, for them be merge and features add in trunk?
16:04:31  <Celestar> Digitalfox: it will future featres
16:04:35  <Celestar> bring
16:04:51  <Digitalfox> like what?
16:05:14  <Celestar> a rewritten map .. with things like signals on bridges
16:05:23  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7822 /branches/cpp/: [cpp] - Created a branch for C++ port.
16:05:33  <Brianetta> Celestar:
16:05:47  <Brianetta> or join #autopilot to chat without joining
16:05:57  <Digitalfox> ok, and branch costumheadbridges still going to merge in future with trunk?
16:06:01  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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16:09:08  <Celestar> Brianetta: do you have a zip of the newgrfs?
16:10:55  <Brianetta> Celestar: It's on that page
16:10:57  <peter1138> Celestar: "all these newgrfs in one big (2.7MB) file"
16:11:05  <Brianetta>
16:11:07  <Brianetta> nice APT
16:11:09  <peter1138> i didn't spot it at first
16:11:14  <peter1138> even though i've seen it before :)
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16:14:02  <Celestar> nice game :)
16:14:27  <peter1138> Brianetta: APT? that's not an APT
16:15:00  <Brianetta> oh aye
16:15:05  <Brianetta> it's an hst but proto
16:15:13  <peter1138> *nod*
16:15:14  <peter1138> ugly fucker
16:15:35  <Brianetta> It had buffers (:
16:15:48  <Brianetta>
16:15:55  <Brianetta> Proper HST, painted up as a locomotive
16:16:01  <Celestar> there is graduallloading in 0.5.0?
16:16:11  <peter1138> yes there is
16:16:12  <Brianetta> Celestar: yes
16:16:42  <Celestar> we really need more pretty houses
16:16:51  <peter1138> that's what the newhouses branch is for
16:16:58  <Celestar> really?
16:17:00  <peter1138> which is being worked on
16:17:02  <Celestar> :P
16:17:03  <peter1138> yeah
16:17:07  <peter1138> strange that :P
16:17:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: those things look very strange
16:17:20  <peter1138> i think Maedhros should leave it though, to rot
16:17:29  <peter1138> then belugas can merge it
16:17:35  <peter1138> and Maedhros can complain about it
16:17:36  <peter1138> \o/
16:17:45  <Maedhros> hehe
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16:25:54  <Celestar> bah
16:25:57  <Brianetta> peter1138: UKRS has an EM2 in it, right?
16:26:00  <Brianetta>
16:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: have the british some kind of law that the front of a locomotive must be yellow?
16:26:43  <Brianetta> Eddi: Indeed they have
16:26:53  <Brianetta> It used to be that the end had to be yellow
16:27:03  <Brianetta> Now the law is relaxed, and they only need a yellow panel
16:27:09  <Celestar> Brianetta: hm ... quite some CPU usage here
16:27:12  <Brianetta> there is a minimum area of yellow required by law
16:27:23  <Brianetta> Celestar: It's all the vehicles
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16:29:52  <peter1138> Brianetta: the addon pack does
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16:30:21  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:31:19  <Bjarni> what's that about a C++ branch?
16:31:37  <Celestar> Brianetta: KUDr: I think the problem is that some functions take too long to complete to give smooth gameplay
16:31:40  <Celestar> Bjarni:  a test
16:31:41  <peter1138> KUDr's brainwashed them all
16:31:48  <KUDr> porting ottd to c++
16:31:58  <peter1138> Celestar: apparently it's slower in network play too
16:32:06  <Bjarni> who got that braindead idea?
16:32:08  <Celestar> peter1138: see above
16:32:13  <Celestar> peter1138: I have 20% cpu load ..
16:32:25  <Brianetta> My server has 50% - 100%
16:32:26  <Celestar> yet there are short hangs
16:32:29  <peter1138> yeah
16:32:39  <Celestar> oh I see Bjarni is open for new ideas :P
16:32:51  <peter1138> Brianetta: is the viewport on a busy area?
16:33:01  <Bjarni> if we change the code to C++, then it will demand that all the developers know C++, which will be an issue
16:33:09  <peter1138> some of us don't know C...
16:33:14  <Celestar> C++ can be learnt
16:33:27  <Celestar> most of the code will stay untouched for the time being
16:33:28  <KUDr> :)
16:33:46  <Bjarni> so you plan to start a C++ school for C developers?
16:33:53  <peter1138> i wonder what happened to that c# port
16:33:59  <Bjarni> lol
16:33:59  <caladan> C++ is good, because of well, memory management.. and all these accesors...
16:34:06  <KUDr> Bjarni: i started it already
16:34:12  <caladan> C#?? that's a joke? :>
16:34:13  <Bjarni> forget about c#
16:34:20  <Celestar> Bjarni: for example we could finally write type-safe code
16:34:25  <Brianetta> peter1138: Probably
16:34:27  <Celestar> and not assign shit
16:34:27  <Bjarni> caladan: no, somebody actually started... and then we never heard from him again
16:34:41  <Celestar> C# swallowed him
16:34:45  * Celestar checks profile output
16:34:57  *** Netsplit <-> quits: Triffid_Hunter
16:35:01  <Bjarni> ok... so you are saying that we should do C style C++?
16:35:10  <Celestar> Bjarni: this will be the start
16:35:10  <caladan> Huh, that's why i dont like C#, it eats people :/
16:35:19  <peter1138> Brianetta: try scrolling to the top corner of the map, see if that has any effect
16:35:40  <stillunknown> Bjarni: you can do c++ in a c'ish style with a few minor difference
16:35:44  <Bjarni> the start?
16:36:14  <Celestar> ok KUDr and others.
16:36:16  <peter1138> converting c to c++ will not resulting in very good c++...
16:36:18  <Bjarni> stillunknown: I know, but if everybody else starts to do hardcore C++ stuff, I cant' read the source code anymore :s
16:36:25  <Celestar> we NEED to come up with a clever idea for ship pathfinding
16:36:32  <peter1138> yapf no good?
16:36:40  <Celestar> 67.36     26.52    26.52     4036     0.01     0.01  CYapfFollowShipT
16:36:43  <Celestar> peter1138: A* not good
16:36:45  <caladan> True, converting C to C++ gives no good results...
16:36:48  <peter1138> ah
16:37:30  <peter1138> grrr, i did a windows update and now the network load balancer's fucked
16:37:34  <stillunknown> is the simple to the point documentation about templates?
16:37:37  <peter1138> think i need to reinstall :/
16:37:43  <Celestar> stillunknown: ?
16:37:48  <stillunknown> *there
16:38:09  <stillunknown> i'm curious about templates, but i'd prefer not to digest too much at once
16:38:09  <Celestar> stillunknown: yes
16:38:24  <caladan> stillunknown: tempates are really easy :D
16:38:27  <Celestar>
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16:38:50  <MeusH> hello
16:39:00  <peter1138> cout :/
16:39:04  <caladan> lol
16:39:04  <peter1138> i mean
16:39:10  <peter1138> who came up with the syntax for *that*?
16:39:15  <caladan> dunno
16:39:25  <Darkvater> we're NOT going to use cout :s
16:39:28  <caladan> then all those people think << means put to cout :D
16:39:28  <stillunknown> Celestar: i saw that, but i am a bit confused by a few things
16:39:34  <Darkvater> I hate all that stream crap
16:39:37  <Celestar> no we are not, neither is KUDr using cout
16:39:59  <Celestar> most c++ people I know use fprintf and siblings
16:40:22  <Celestar> KUDr: any hope for Ships?
16:40:24  <caladan> all these ifstreams and ostreams and blah...
16:40:52  <KUDr> Celestar: no idea what to do with ships
16:41:02  <KUDr> need some better algo probably
16:41:19  <Brianetta> peter1138:
16:41:19  <Celestar> KUDr: maybe just store the entire path and just check in less regular intervals?
16:41:23  <Brianetta> APT Eurostar
16:42:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think ships need a better representation of the underlying graph
16:42:22  <peter1138> :)
16:42:24  <Celestar> Brianetta: that is one hell of an ugly train
16:42:32  <Brianetta> Celestar: )-:
16:42:45  <Brianetta> It's not what's on the outside
16:42:52  <Brianetta> or what's on the inside, in this case
16:42:55  <Brianetta> it's
16:42:59  <peter1138> Celestar: it is from the 70s ;)
16:43:00  <Brianetta> just like the train, OK?
16:43:26  <KUDr> Celestar: dunno
16:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have seen hardly any "nice" trains on that page
16:43:43  <Brianetta> Plot once and build a shipping lane
16:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe the british trains are plain ugly...
16:43:49  <Celestar> <= this is a nice train
16:44:00  <Brianetta> mark the shipping lane in the map array with a flag
16:44:07  <Brianetta> so you know to rebuild it if somebody builds on it
16:44:27  <Celestar> preproduction N700 :)
16:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> that looks like narrow gauge
16:44:50  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: which one?
16:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> yours
16:45:03  <Celestar> the SKS700 is NOT narrow gauge
16:45:06  <Celestar> it's 1600mm afaik
16:45:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> then the track in front either does not belong to the train, or it is a bad angle
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16:47:21  <Celestar>
16:47:23  <Celestar> different angle
16:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> hmm... says it's 1435
16:47:38  <Celestar> ok then it is horse-butt size*2
16:49:44  <Celestar>
16:49:45  <Celestar> nice one too
16:50:16  <Celestar> Brianetta: no offense, I like the brits, but they don't know how to build trains *runs*
16:51:04  <Brianetta> We do - low roofs.
16:51:07  <peter1138> actually
16:51:15  <peter1138> that N700 is ugly
16:51:17  <Brianetta> Foreign trains would hit every bridge, tunnel and cable.
16:51:35  <ArmEagle> Celestar heh not as if you'd see the difference in OTTD :)
16:51:39  <peter1138> the 500 is ok
16:51:41  <Celestar> ArmEagle: true :)
16:52:02  <Brianetta> Tube train in BR! (: (:
16:52:03  <Brianetta>
16:52:18  <Celestar> ugh
16:52:24  <peter1138> hehe
16:52:58  <peter1138> i can't stand on tube trains :/
16:53:00  <Celestar> well, I'm not into trains that much anyway
16:53:05  <Celestar> peter1138: how tall?
16:53:14  <Brianetta> I can stand, but I have to bow my head
16:53:31  <Celestar>
16:53:53  <peter1138> 6'6
16:54:03  <Celestar> poor you :)
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16:54:29  <ArmEagle> heh, local public transport is slowly replacing trains with Got a complete techspec pdf.. If I had the time and knew how that grf stuff worked..
16:54:45  <Brianetta>
16:54:50  <Celestar>
16:54:52  <Brianetta> same tube in network south-east
16:55:14  <peter1138> looks almost real, heh
16:55:41  <peter1138> yay for the tube's 4 rails :D
16:56:15  <peter1138> i still want to see a 3rd rail railway
16:56:50  <Celestar> nsj
16:57:04  <peter1138> s/railway/railtype/
16:57:07  <Celestar> we have a goods-not-delivered-to-station problem apparently
16:57:24  <Brianetta> Virgin Thunderbird Deltic is cool
16:57:25  <peter1138> have you reproduced it then?
16:57:30  <Darkvater> station ratings are 0
16:57:37  <Celestar> peter1138: not but this game has it
16:57:40  <Celestar> Darkvater: no, 55%
16:57:47  <Celestar> 67% actually
16:59:58  <Darkvater> too fara away? exclusive rights? bribery?
17:00:14  <Celestar> not sure investigating
17:00:34  <Celestar> found it .. 2 other stations
17:00:38  <Naksu> you porting ottd to c++?
17:00:39  <Celestar> we REALLY need to change that one
17:02:03  <peter1138> i'm porting it to python
17:02:29  <caladan> can i do it in brainfuck?
17:02:41  <Brianetta> caladan: Only you can answer that one
17:03:14  <caladan> You know brainfuck? :D
17:03:23  <Brianetta> Well duh
17:03:27  <Brianetta> who doesn't?
17:03:34  <Brianetta> I wrote a 16 byte progrram in it once
17:03:36  <caladan> some dont... :D
17:04:44  <Celestar> Darkvater: this 2-station rule is kinda st00pid
17:05:06  <peter1138> only 2 stations can receive cargo?
17:05:10  <Celestar> yes
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17:05:14  <Celestar> the 2 highest rating
17:05:18  <peter1138> hmm
17:05:25  <Celestar> we should distribution cargo to all stations according to their rating
17:05:34  <peter1138> ,.../* several stations around, find the two with the highest rating */
17:05:36  <Celestar> amount * my_rating / sum_of_all_ratings
17:05:36  <peter1138> heh
17:06:13  <Celestar> but then again, how big is "amount" normally .. :S
17:07:19  <Celestar> for passengers between 1 and 16 :S
17:08:00  <Celestar> can't distribute that properly
17:08:06  <Celestar> but roughly it should work
17:08:42  <Brianetta>
17:08:48  <Brianetta> Class 66 in BR blue (:
17:09:00  <Brianetta> That loco is too young for that livery
17:10:00  <peter1138> i retrieved my model railway kit from my parents
17:10:46  <Bjarni> nice
17:10:54  <Celestar> ok guys
17:10:59  <ArmEagle> i think i'd buy a train simulator before i'd put any of my rails back together.
17:10:59  <Celestar> time to say goodbye :P
17:11:03  <peter1138> i appear to have a 37, a 43 and... something else
17:11:13  <Celestar> 67.36     26.52    26.52     4036     0.01     0.01  CYapfFollowShipT
17:11:17  <Celestar> whoops
17:11:21  <peter1138> similar to the 66 but earlier
17:11:41  <Bjarni> what???
17:11:45  <Bjarni> no deltic?
17:11:49  <peter1138> newp
17:12:52  <Bjarni> I don't have a deltic either, but then again I don't deal in British model railroads
17:12:57  <Brianetta> Did I miss something?
17:13:10  <Brianetta> oh, no
17:13:29  <Bjarni> Brianetta: you missed a deltic
17:13:33  <Bjarni> it was here, but now it's not
17:14:45  <peter1138> ah, class 58
17:15:09  <peter1138> so not a lot really
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17:19:46  <peter1138> it all needs a massive clean up
17:19:53  <peter1138> some TLC
17:19:56  <peter1138> and a bit of glue
17:20:06  <peter1138> and the headlights are missing from the 43's power car
17:20:14  <peter1138> it's a con! only one is powered ;(
17:20:21  <Bjarni> :P
17:20:39  <Bjarni> that's the usual way
17:20:48  <Bjarni> I got a steam locomotive without power
17:21:04  <Bjarni> the tender do have a pretty nice electric engine though
17:21:15  <peter1138> what! it's not even steam :/
17:21:21  <peter1138> they lie to us
17:22:15  <peter1138> Born_Acorn!
17:22:24  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: answer the question :P
17:22:24  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn lied to us?
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17:23:30  <Celestar> KUDr: really funny ... the rail pathfinder needs 0.1% CPU and the ship pathfinder 65% :)
17:23:48  <KUDr> yeah
17:23:56  <Darkvater> finally
17:23:58  <KUDr> rail pf uses segments
17:23:59  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7823 /trunk/src/news_gui.c:
17:23:59  <CIA-1> -Fix (r7384 / r7368 / r3757 / r7388): News windows could still cause crashes because
17:23:59  <CIA-1>  DeleteVehicleNews shuffles around _news_items which can wreak havoc with the NewsItem*
17:23:59  <CIA-1>  of a currently open news window. While here also correctly update _current_news and
17:23:59  <CIA-1>  _forced_news for the same reasons. Should really work now.
17:24:03  <Darkvater> this took me about a day
17:24:12  <Darkvater> and it might still be broken ;p
17:24:23  <Celestar> KUDr: with about 200 trains and 35 ships
17:24:34  <KUDr> yes, i know
17:24:48  <KUDr> therefore i don't recommend to use yapf for ships
17:24:49  <Celestar> KUDr: but I have no smart idea how to improve it
17:24:53  <Brianetta> GNER Deltic
17:24:54  <Brianetta>
17:24:58  <Celestar> do you think NPF is faster
17:25:01  <KUDr> me neither ;)
17:25:07  <KUDr> hehe
17:25:08  <KUDr> no
17:25:13  <KUDr> even slower
17:25:51  <Celestar> do you use trackdirs or enterdirs ?
17:26:56  <KUDr> hmm
17:26:58  <KUDr> dunno
17:27:04  <KUDr> booth are slow
17:27:04  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7824 /branches/cpp/ (309 files in 12 dirs): [cpp] - Renamed all .c files to .cpp (except cocoa because i dunno what to do with it)
17:27:07  <Celestar> what about just using whole tiles?
17:27:11  <peter1138> lol
17:27:20  <peter1138> mass c -> c++ conversionlol
17:27:23  <KUDr> Celestar: impossible
17:27:26  <KUDr> i tried it
17:27:27  <Celestar> and forget the dirs for the time being?
17:27:31  <Celestar> KUDr: and? :)
17:27:40  <KUDr> ships can't turn in place
17:27:55  <Celestar> good point
17:28:12  <Celestar> so we must think of a better idea
17:28:15  <Celestar> like cache :)
17:28:31  <KUDr> Celestar: but you maybe right
17:28:38  <Celestar> about?
17:28:41  <KUDr> using just tiles for the first round
17:28:49  <KUDr> and then make path smoother
17:28:57  <Celestar> yeah
17:28:58  <KUDr> to respect curves
17:29:03  <Celestar> thought o fsomething like that
17:29:08  <peter1138> aircraft need to respect curves ;p
17:29:10  <KUDr> good
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17:29:16  <KUDr> it can really help a lot
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17:31:05  <KUDr> Celestar: remind me about it after i finish with cpp
17:31:42  <Celestar> ok I will
17:31:48  <Celestar> I need some food
17:31:50  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
17:31:59  <KUDr> bye
17:32:24  <hylje> so, you're c++ing the code?
17:32:41  <ArmEagle> peter1138 heh indeed. that would make it a lot more realistic
17:32:55  <KUDr> hylje: yes
17:33:08  <KUDr> making it compilable as C++
17:33:17  <KUDr> for now it is enough
17:34:12  <stillunknown> doing it all by yourself?
17:34:23  <KUDr> volunteer?
17:35:24  <stillunknown> i can try to help a bit, but my c and c++ is not as good as yours
17:35:43  <KUDr> my is also not good
17:35:50  <KUDr> i just type and try it
17:35:57  <peter1138> heh
17:36:16  <stillunknown> i'm looking at endian_check
17:36:43  <stillunknown> and wondering if i should do c++ style strings
17:36:44  <Brianetta> Blackpool trams....
17:36:48  <Brianetta>
17:36:52  <Brianetta> BR livery!
17:36:53  <Brianetta>
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17:37:30  <peter1138> o_O
17:37:44  <Wolf01> ello
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17:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> this is a nice train, only you rarely see it:üge~VT+18.html
17:40:20  <peter1138> slow...
17:40:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> the site or the train? :p
17:41:03  <stillunknown> KUDr: should i use namespaces instead of including headers?
17:41:04  <peter1138> site
17:41:22  <KUDr> "instead" ?
17:41:38  <KUDr> i dont understand how one can replace the other
17:41:59  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, question?
17:42:02  <stillunknown> if you do #include <foo.h> or #include <foo>
17:42:05  <peter1138> in your thread
17:42:13  <KUDr> aha
17:42:18  <stillunknown> the last means must do foo::function
17:42:18  <KUDr> .h
17:42:34  <KUDr> hmm
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17:45:52  <mosfet> yawn
17:45:53  <mosfet> hihi all
17:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a pretty old train, built in the '60s i think
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17:51:33  <stillunknown> Rubidium KUDr: any of you know were the compiler is set?
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17:51:59  <KUDr> compiler?
17:52:21  <KUDr> vor VC it is in project file (use default)
17:52:34  <KUDr> -v +f
17:52:56  <stillunknown> i mean the makefiles
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17:53:51  <peter1138> ./configure ...
17:54:20  <peter1138> KUDr: make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/peter/ottd/cpp/src/string.c', needed by `string.o'.  Stop.
17:54:41  <KUDr> huh
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17:55:23  <KUDr> so it is not in sources.list
17:55:40  <KUDr> we must find it
17:55:45  <peter1138> no
17:55:48  <peter1138> it's autogenerated
17:56:03  <KUDr> aha
17:56:18  <KUDr> so in needs code change forst
17:56:23  <KUDr> first
17:56:43  <stillunknown> i cannot find were the source for string.c is
17:56:56  <stillunknown> for the makfile*.in
17:56:58  <peter1138> hmm
17:56:59  <peter1138> no
17:57:04  <peter1138> strings.h is autogenerated
17:57:07  <peter1138> string.c isn't
17:57:13  <peter1138> it's string.cpp now of course
17:57:21  <peter1138> good job you tested the makefiles ;)
17:58:20  <nairan> celestar: tum =tu münchen?
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18:01:17  <KUDr> tested the makefiles? no just remaned files
18:01:24  <KUDr> step by step
18:01:33  <peter1138> ...
18:01:33  <KUDr> i don't expect it be compilable
18:01:39  <peter1138> move *.c *.cpp :P
18:01:47  <KUDr> it is far away from it
18:01:58  <peter1138> well, endian_check now complains about strcmp
18:02:24  <peter1138> but that's a source issue
18:02:29  <peter1138> it includes stdio but not string.h
18:02:40  <KUDr> hmm
18:02:54  <KUDr> so what with that string.c?
18:02:58  <KUDr> any idea?
18:02:59  <peter1138> /tmp/ccEgSRjT.o:(.eh_frame+0x11): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
18:03:01  <peter1138> :/
18:03:05  <peter1138> KUDr: it's string.cpp
18:03:10  <HMage> Hi, I think I'm interested in mailman's svn commit list - I recieved a message about language updates. These diffs contain UTF8-encoded text. But the message headers in the body specify that the message is encoded in iso8859-15.
18:03:12  <peter1138> so the references to string.c just get changed...
18:03:12  <HMage> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
18:03:12  <HMage> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
18:03:14  <stillunknown> peter1138: what file did you change?
18:03:23  <stillunknown> the .in is autogenerated
18:03:31  <stillunknown> so not permanent
18:03:44  <peter1138> no they're not
18:03:59  <glx> KUDr: you need to update
18:04:00  <HMage> ...So, in the end of it, I have to manually change encoding in the message reader to UTF-8 _each_ time I open the message.
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18:04:19  <peter1138> is my cpp stuff
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18:04:34  <KUDr> glx: thanks
18:04:44  <stillunknown> i'm on the endian thing
18:05:16  <peter1138> #include <string.h> heh
18:05:20  <HMage> is anyone here who's in power to fix that?
18:08:03  <glx> KUDr: too I think (at least for endian_check)
18:08:19  <KUDr> hmm
18:10:29  <stillunknown> i can deal with makefile stuff if you want
18:10:37  <stillunknown> i have passed endian check now
18:10:45  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7825 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make NetworkUDPClose close a single UDP socket. Use NetworkUDPStop to close all opened udp sockets (those were called NetworkUDPClose).
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18:11:20  <stillunknown> KUDr: ok?
18:11:39  <KUDr> ok
18:11:44  <KUDr> would help a lot
18:11:54  <KUDr> i know sh*t about makefiles
18:12:20  <stillunknown> i know cpp does malloc differently
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18:12:49  <stillunknown> string.cpp line 64-66
18:13:00  <KUDr> i solved it
18:13:09  <KUDr> here
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18:13:17  <KUDr> don't touch code for now
18:13:20  <KUDr> pls
18:14:13  <stillunknown> ok
18:16:15  <peter1138> ah, you need to configure with CC=g++
18:16:15  <peter1138> heh
18:16:48  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7826 /branches/cpp/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
18:16:48  <CIA-1> [cpp] - Codechange: added allocation helpers for type-safe allocation
18:16:48  <CIA-1>  - they are used only in strgen (for now) that compiles fine on VC
18:16:53  <peter1138> yay, we have cast mallocs. how silly
18:17:02  <stillunknown> that's not the proper way to do it
18:17:15  <KUDr> now please look to this change and tell what you think
18:17:42  <Smoovious> hey... are there any plans to make building roro road vehicle stations easier? like... being able to place them directly on a straight piece of road without having to destroy the road first?
18:18:07  <stillunknown> KUDr:
18:18:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> there are no roro-roadstations
18:18:44  <Rubidium> KUDr: why did you commit the MSVC project files in this one too? Nothing changed, except it places a '>' alone on a line?
18:18:48  <HMage> maybe Smoovious is talking about miniin
18:18:50  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause3... yes there are... call em drive-through or whatever if you want, but they are on the road instead of off the road
18:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i think exactly that was on the todo list of the patchwriter, so you should contact him
18:19:10  <Smoovious> HMage... ahh, I am... those aren't part of 0.5-rc2?
18:19:19  <KUDr> Rubidium: added one file
18:19:22  <Rubidium> KUDr: that change will be when you update that file using the projects/generate
18:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: i meant, there is no such thing in any official OTTD build
18:19:27  <KUDr> ahhh
18:19:32  <KUDr> forgot?
18:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> only in the miniin
18:19:54  <Smoovious> yet, they are there, and my question is still valid
18:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but noboy here is working on the miniin
18:20:15  <HMage> Smoovious: you should contact the author of the patch
18:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> ask the patchwriter
18:20:25  <peter1138> your question should be directed to the single author of the patch, who is not here
18:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> there should be a thread in the forum
18:20:37  <Belugas> martp3, iirc
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18:20:40  <HMage> how nice three of us told the same :)
18:20:46  <peter1138> consistency
18:20:47  <hylje> :
18:20:48  <hylje> o
18:21:05  <Rubidium> KUDr: what file did add? Why isn't it added to sources.list?
18:21:05  <Smoovious> no idea who it was... in any event, "no, there aren't" is the answer... no prob
18:21:19  <stillunknown> KUDr: what's with this helpers.hpp file?
18:21:22  <HMage> visit miniin thread
18:21:50  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7827 /branches/cpp/src/helpers.hpp: [cpp] - Added file missing in (r7826)
18:21:55  <KUDr> here it is
18:21:57  <KUDr> sorry
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18:22:12  <Duckleon> hi all
18:22:18  <stillunknown> KUDr: you saw the patch?
18:22:22  <MeusH> hello Duckleon
18:22:27  <KUDr> yes
18:22:27  <peter1138>
18:22:29  <peter1138> err
18:22:39  <peter1138>
18:22:42  <peter1138> "oops"
18:22:44  <KUDr> stillunknown: it is joke? using vector
18:23:06  <KUDr> you are shooting fly with cannon
18:23:06  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: uhh :)
18:23:08  <stillunknown> KUDr: no
18:23:14  <stillunknown> vectors are convient
18:23:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> my monitor is not correctly aligned for that picture
18:23:34  <KUDr> i want to do just little changes now
18:23:42  <KUDr> stype should stay .C like
18:23:52  <KUDr> expect when necessary
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18:24:02  <KUDr> like typecasting and so on
18:24:15  <KUDr> expect->except
18:24:16  <stillunknown> well, the string handling should be changed
18:24:23  <KUDr> later
18:24:26  <KUDr> not now
18:24:39  <KUDr> now we are making it compilable and running
18:24:54  <stillunknown> i mean, the file needs to change somehow
18:24:54  <KUDr> then we must port it to all other platfroms like mac
18:25:05  <KUDr> and then we can discuss further changes
18:25:14  <stillunknown> because it doesn't compile
18:25:15  <KUDr> file yes
18:25:23  <KUDr> but not this way
18:25:33  <KUDr> you make total cpp crap from it
18:25:58  <stillunknown> ok, are vectors bad?
18:26:00  <peter1138> endian_check just needs a string.h include, heh
18:27:10  <stillunknown> true, but i have done strings in c, i do know a bit about them in c++
18:27:16  <KUDr> stillunknown: don't change what doesn't need to be changed
18:27:24  <KUDr> never touch running system
18:27:47  <stillunknown> ok, but are vectors bad?
18:27:52  <stillunknown> in general
18:27:52  <KUDr> no
18:28:15  <KUDr> when they are used carefully then ok, they work well
18:28:59  <stillunknown>
18:29:10  <KUDr> what is that?:
18:29:11  <KUDr> -CC_BUILD     = !!CC_BUILD!!
18:29:11  <KUDr> +CXX_HOST     = !!CXX_HOST!!
18:29:22  <glx> change of compiler
18:29:27  <KUDr> ahh
18:29:35  <Rubidium> and a bad one!
18:29:45  <stillunknown> how so?
18:29:48  <KUDr> hmm i don't understand anything of it
18:30:12  <KUDr> so glx please can you review that patch and commit?
18:30:15  <Rubidium> because you are going to compile for the host, which you (for crosscompiles) cannot run on the build(ing) system
18:30:32  <CIA-1> miham * r7828 /trunk/src/lang/ (danish.txt estonian.txt italian.txt unfinished/japanese.txt):
18:30:32  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-04 19:28:37
18:30:32  <CIA-1> danish - 8 changed by ThomasA (8)
18:30:32  <CIA-1> estonian - 101 changed by kristjans (101)
18:30:32  <CIA-1> italian - 1 changed by sidew (1)
18:30:34  <CIA-1> japanese - 17 fixed, 11 changed by PouncingAnt (28)
18:30:35  <Rubidium> thus breaking _any_ crosscompilation
18:30:38  <KUDr> and before it was wrong?
18:30:41  <stillunknown> but why is there no CXX_BUILD?
18:30:49  <Rubidium> because it wasn't needed
18:30:54  <stillunknown> yapf
18:31:08  <glx> there's only CXX_HOST even in src Makefile
18:31:28  <Rubidium> no, yapf does not need to be compiled for the build(ing) system, only for the one who is going to run the game (which is host)
18:31:31  <peter1138> no c++ was executed on the host during build
18:31:49  <KUDr> ahh
18:31:53  <KUDr> so back to c
18:32:07  <KUDr> it was my mistake then
18:32:25  <glx> why these var are not called _HOST and _TARGET ?
18:32:57  <peter1138> someone renamed them *and* removed the --cc-target configure parameters
18:32:59  <Rubidium> because it is some (defacto?) standard to call them _HOST and _BUILD
18:33:03  <peter1138> or whatever they were called
18:33:16  <peter1138> ./configure CC=.. is a bit odd
18:33:28  <peter1138> but it works i guess
18:33:47  <Rubidium> peter1138: you shouldn't need to add the CC etc flags
18:34:18  <KUDr> so who can repair what i did worng with makefile?
18:34:22  <stillunknown> so all that needs to happen is the creation of a CCX_BUILD?
18:34:30  <stillunknown> *CXX_BUILD
18:34:34  <peter1138> no
18:34:46  <Rubidium> my crosscompiler works by just specifying --host=i386-mingw32msvc
18:34:56  <Rubidium> no trickery with CC, CXX or any of those
18:34:59  <peter1138> well
18:35:12  <peter1138> either strgen needs to go back to c
18:35:16  <peter1138> or we need CXX_BUILD
18:35:28  <peter1138> and endian_check is used by both strgen & ottd
18:35:51  <Rubidium> KUDr: have you thought about how you sync with trunk (to eventually merge it back into trunk)?
18:36:13  <KUDr> yes, this will be a problem
18:36:22  <KUDr> so i try to be as fast as possible
18:36:30  <KUDr> to don't have much to sync
18:36:58  <KUDr> but strgen needs stdafx.h
18:37:19  <KUDr> putting it back to c will mean to maintain its c compatibility
18:38:05  <stillunknown> stdafx.h does not exist in c++?
18:38:09  <peter1138> KUDr: taking on this project, i think you need to have something set up to test the makefile build system
18:38:32  <peter1138> not knowing how it works isn't really a very good idea
18:38:41  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, but i am just at the beginning
18:38:54  <KUDr> and you started to bugg me about makefile
18:38:58  <HMage> first things first, stdafx.h is a MICROSOFT file, it doesn't exist outside MS compiling projects (try any, besides openttd, you'll be surprised)
18:39:03  <KUDr> i wanted to solve it as last
18:39:04  <peter1138> well, yeah, because it doesn't work
18:39:10  <KUDr> if nobody can do it
18:39:13  <KUDr> in meantime
18:39:19  <HMage> second, .h can be included inside extern "C" directive.
18:39:25  <KUDr> it cannot work
18:39:26  <peter1138> HMage: heh, not for us, as you say :)
18:39:27  <HMage> if you want symbols to be C, not C/C++
18:39:44  <KUDr> i let you to solve it or will do it as last
18:39:49  <peter1138> well, ok
18:41:09  <KUDr> HMage: stdafx.h is just name - here it is needed as it contains all common defines
18:41:24  <KUDr> forget about the name
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18:42:32  <peter1138> we should use stdint and suffix our [u]int[8|16|32|64] types with _t (maybe, heh)
18:42:36  <HMage> well, ok. I just wonder how did that microsoft-style name happened to exist here.
18:43:48  <HMage> "[u]int[8|16|32|64] types with _t" are defined in inttypes.h, which accidently doesn't happen to exist on microsoft compilers.
18:44:42  <peter1138> um, stdint.h
18:44:59  <peter1138> though of course that may not exist either
18:45:19  <Sacro> peter1138: that train doesnt look to be in the right place
18:45:37  <KUDr> HMage: this is probably because it was made compilable on win32 first
18:45:58  <HMage> I see.
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18:46:14  <HMage> peter1138: yes, stdint.h doesn't exist in microsoft too.
18:46:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: the thread says it was driving backwards at 28 km/h when it crashed into the wall
18:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> 4 Mio EUR destroyed
18:46:59  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: whoops
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18:50:23  <glx> Rubidium: <-- better like that ?
18:50:43  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7829 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move the network (core) initialization/shutdown functions into network/core, so the can be reused in the masterserver_updater.
18:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> HMage: "it does [...], too." or "it doesn't [...], either."
18:53:22  <HMage> Eddi|zuHause3: what was that about?
18:53:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> grammar ;)
18:56:19  <Rubidium> glx: it looks ok (haven't tested it though)
18:56:29  <HMage> Eddi|zuHause3: ah, thanks :)
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19:12:48  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7830 /trunk/src/network/ (core/core.c core/core.h network.c): -Codechange: let NetworkCoreInitialize return a bool, so we have to set _network_available only once.
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19:17:29  <SpComb> Logs:
19:17:29  <Digitalfox> !logs
19:18:52  <stillunknown> glx: seems to work
19:19:22  <valhallasw> an RSS feed
19:19:26  <valhallasw> omg :P
19:19:54  *** Duckleon_ [] has joined #openttd
19:20:00  <HMage> :D:D
19:24:46  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7831 /trunk/src/newgrf.c: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Do not mark as unsafe those NewGRFs that set their own parameters (via action D) and/or change only bridge sprite table layouts (action 0, property D).
19:25:32  <Sacro> :o a valhallasw
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19:27:35  <peter1138> r7831 == Born_Acorn's UKRoadsetw.grf can now be used as a static GRF
19:28:14  * peter1138 off
19:28:18  <stillunknown> KUDr: don't forget to include string.h in endian_check.cpp
19:28:44  <KUDr> ok
19:29:30  <stillunknown> KUDr: the patch glx posts seems ok
19:29:48  <KUDr> so he can commit it
19:30:20  <stillunknown> i don't know if he has commit rights
19:30:23  <stillunknown> glx: do you?
19:30:28  <hylje> yes
19:30:59  <KUDr> why it didn't need string.h before?
19:31:08  <KUDr> it is magic
19:31:57  <Sacro> Rubidium: i hear your after an rpm spec file
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19:42:00  <Brianetta> 1 (Blue): Fort Dronningville Transport
19:42:00  <Brianetta> 2 (Green): Supreme Shipping Inc.
19:42:00  <Brianetta> 3 (Mauve): Mike's Transport & Spedition
19:42:00  <Brianetta> 4 (Brown): Single Track Research Co
19:42:00  <Brianetta> 5 (Dark Blue): roborail
19:42:02  <Brianetta> 6 (Orange): Paddle Bobble
19:42:05  <Brianetta> 7 (Red): Legat Transport
19:42:07  <Brianetta> 8 (Pink): Sacro Transport
19:42:10  <Brianetta> Sacro: Loser
19:42:12  <Brianetta> (:
19:42:13  <Wolf01> ahahahahah
19:42:23  <Sacro> heh... i only had 4 trains
19:42:36  <Wolf01> use yellow!
19:43:55  <scia> :p
19:43:57  <scia> I won!
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19:50:12  <Brianetta> New game (:
19:51:02  <caladan> Wow, is that testing or relaxing? :D
19:51:52  <Digitalfox> I know it's a bit offtopic, but.. Sac ( withc is making some great grafics ) is gone from TT-Forums :
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19:53:18  <Frostregen> doh
19:54:19  <scia> such a shame...
19:54:21  <Darkvater> OMGOMG
19:54:25  <Darkvater> SAC has left the forums
19:54:28  <Darkvater> ...again...
19:54:37  <Darkvater>
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19:56:42  <Darkvater> why are women so touchy?
19:57:02  <Darkvater> I completely ignore tha off-topic bullshit crap and never get offended
19:57:10  <Darkvater> well except by sirkoz *cough*
19:58:59  <Frostregen> we will never understand...this is life =)
19:59:42  <Frostregen> someone needs to send icecream
20:02:48  <Belugas> flowers... ice cream is for tears
20:02:59  <Belugas> flowers are for forgivness
20:04:49  <caladan> huh, any other countermeasures? :D
20:06:33  <CIA-1> glx * r7832 /branches/cpp/ ( config.lib): [cpp] -Fix r7824: updated Makefile generation for .c to .cpp rename
20:06:54  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
20:07:34  <Smoovious> <Darkvater> why are women so touchy? <-- cuz they still think guys are mind-readers and think we don't automatically know what they're thinking and feeling, on purpose
20:08:26  <Noldo> I wonder what things she experienced
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20:10:29  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater, "pompous fraud" isn't really offensive. :p
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20:10:55  <caladan> Hmm, is there error in World Generation form in rc2?
20:11:04  <caladan> isn't it randomize instead of randomise?
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20:11:09  <Born_Acorn> No, it isn't.
20:11:18  <Born_Acorn> We had a poll and everything
20:11:20  *** [ufoun] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:11:29  <glx> caladan: if you want randomize use american lang file
20:11:31  <Born_Acorn> Use American for randomize
20:11:39  <caladan> huh, ok :D
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20:18:50  <ArmEagle> heh cool
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20:30:09  <Rubidium> Sacro: if you have one that is working correctly, it would be nice to add
20:30:22  <Sacro> Rubidium: im working on it
20:33:56  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7833 /trunk/src/network/core/core.c: -Fix (r7829): forgot to add debug.h to the includes.
20:39:02  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: ping
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20:41:21  <KUDr> MiHaMiX: pong
20:41:45  <stillunknown> KUDr: how many days do you think it will take?
20:42:22  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: can you tell me the main reason behind the cpp branch? what's the main goal?
20:43:21  <hylje> to use c++?
20:43:34  <stillunknown> i can give the really short version
20:43:44  <MiHaMiX> hylje: for the whole project of for certain tools?
20:44:56  <stillunknown> basicly, there will be a new map system, written in c++, for that scale of interaction the code must be c++ compatible
20:46:24  <hylje> :o
20:47:32  <MiHaMiX> hmm
20:47:41  <KUDr> MiHaMiX: all the benefits of C++ can't be used if you don't use c++
20:48:05  <KUDr> thid is main reason why it makes sense to at least try it
20:48:19  <SpComb> provide a scripting API for python!
20:48:22  <KUDr> and my last attempt was not documented (svn)
20:48:23  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: but for the whole project (rewrite from scratch) or just certain parts (strgen, etc..) ?
20:48:47  <KUDr> MiHaMiX: strgen shares stdafx.h
20:49:14  <KUDr> it makes no sense to have stdafx.h full of C things if not needed
20:49:22  <stillunknown> MiHaMix: there are two kinds of c++
20:49:33  <KUDr> but endian_check is something else
20:49:43  <stillunknown> c++ that is 98% c
20:49:46  <KUDr> i didn't care about linux builds
20:49:59  <KUDr> first i want to make it running on one os
20:50:09  <stillunknown> and c++ that is object oriented
20:50:10  <KUDr> and then care about others
20:50:31  <stillunknown> KUDr: it's going ok?
20:50:50  <ArmEagle> hey, I care about linux builds! :P
20:50:53  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: hm, in this case you'll make double work for yourself, since you'll have to make your code supports other OSes later on instead of doing in during the development part
20:51:16  <KUDr> MiHaMiX: code is portable
20:51:21  <MiHaMiX> ArmEagle: that's you. I never ever used OpenTTD on windows...
20:51:23  <KUDr> and will stay portable
20:51:27  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: ok then
20:51:34  <KUDr> only the issue is build system
20:51:47  <KUDr> and i don't rewrite it to C++
20:51:55  <Digitalfox> So and is just KUDr working on c++ branch or everybody will help?
20:52:03  <KUDr> i am trying to make it compilable as C++
20:52:39  <MiHaMiX> Digitalfox: there are a few others afaik, but the main part is waiting for KUDr :)
20:52:48  <stillunknown> that's still c++, just function oriented c++ :-)
20:53:15  <nairan> i would but i cant prog any language.. maybe basic (c64 basic) =/
20:53:55  <Belugas> reworking ottd using object oriented scheme would not be as simple as that.  OOP needs a lot of thinking before getting code written
20:54:03  <KUDr> stillunknown: c or c++ it doesn't matter as long as 99% stays C like
20:54:08  <Digitalfox> But this rewrite in c++, will take weeks even months.. Right?
20:54:31  <ArmEagle> nairan everyone can program, knowing the contect and having a decent reference guide :)
20:54:39  <KUDr> Digitalfox: nobody will rewrite openttd to C++
20:54:46  <KUDr> we don't need it
20:54:52  <Belugas> if i'm not mistaken, KUDr wants to use a certain portion of c++ to imprve the whole program
20:55:13  <KUDr> what we need is typesafe programming + some template libraries in special cases
20:55:26  <Belugas> that's what i meant!
20:55:36  <Digitalfox> KUDr- I mean the work in c++ that is necessary and the time it will take.. :)
20:55:40  <caladan> Like vectors and other dynamic allocation
20:58:10  <stillunknown> caladan: i don't think that's the main reason
20:59:17  <KUDr> main reason why i like c++ is type-safe programing
21:00:40  <stillunknown> KUDr: you're going trough the source code from a-z?
21:00:57  <KUDr> practically yes
21:00:59  <Belugas> it's Delphi without Begin End;
21:01:08  <KUDr> but more task oriented from beginning
21:01:18  <KUDr> not solving all issues at one shot
21:02:04  <stillunknown> at b yet? :-)
21:02:14  <KUDr> yes
21:02:18  <KUDr> just started
21:02:37  <Born_Acorn> It's Hobbitville without Bag End
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21:09:50  <nairan> but i still have to learn how to programm anyway then
21:12:45  <Darkvater> Rubidium: r7825 you don't need to check if SOCKET* is NULL?
21:13:15  * nairan opens the page to learn (the wrong one)
21:13:28  <nairan> umm dutch for beginners isnt the right one
21:14:12  <Rubidium> Darkvater: where should I (possibly) check for that exactly?
21:14:35  <Darkvater> it was just a question; in networkudpclose(*SOCKET)
21:14:55  <Rubidium> no, that shouldn't happen
21:15:01  <Darkvater> ok
21:15:08  <Rubidium> as it is all NetworkUDPClose(&_variable)
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21:17:52  <Darkvater> ok
21:21:19  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7834 /trunk/src/network/core/ (game.h packet.c packet.h tcp.c tcp.h udp.c udp.h): -Codechange: cleanup the includes of network/core a little; include headers in headers when the header needs types/constants defined in them.
21:21:48  <Darkvater> he Rubidium
21:21:51  <Darkvater> r7839
21:21:52  <Darkvater> eh
21:21:54  <Darkvater> r7830
21:21:59  <Darkvater> 40	 	                                        // free ressources...  39	                                        /* free ressources... */
21:22:08  <Darkvater> resources is 1 's' ;p
21:23:37  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7835 /branches/cpp/src/ (45 files in 8 dirs):
21:23:37  <CIA-1> [cpp] - Codechange: replace malloc/calloc calls with their type-safe versions.
21:23:37  <CIA-1> Note that they accept number of items as argument instead of number of bytes.
21:23:37  <CIA-1> Many of those calls should later be replaced by using operator 'new' (also free
21:23:37  <CIA-1> should be replaced by using 'delete' operator). But for now i want to make the
21:23:38  <CIA-1> code compilable, not to rewrite it. Note that still it is not supposed to work.
21:23:40  <CIA-1> Just another step forward.
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21:24:57  <Darkvater> hmm
21:25:15  <Darkvater> KUDr: I read somewhere that malloc and new shouldn't be used intermixed in a program
21:25:22  <Darkvater> what do you know about this?
21:25:36  <KUDr> new uses malloc inside
21:25:47  <KUDr> but calls constructor also
21:25:55  <KUDr> nothing else is different there
21:26:00  <Darkvater> ah
21:26:07  <Darkvater> branches/cpp/src/ai/trolly/pathfinder.cpp << why changed to new/delete?
21:26:24  <KUDr> as we don't have cnstructors now, we can replace it later
21:26:55  <peter1138> Darkvater: most likely don't mix malloc/free and new/delete on the same 'object'
21:26:55  <KUDr> but it would be mistake to allocate it using malloc and ecpect that consructor was called already
21:27:06  <Darkvater> could be
21:27:10  <KUDr> therefore it is not recomended to use both
21:27:15  <Darkvater> another thing that puzzles me
21:27:19  <KUDr> so you can get confused
21:27:25  <Darkvater>  in_use = malloc(GetMaxStationIndex() + 1);
21:27:26  <Darkvater> MallocT(&in_use, GetMaxStationIndex() + 1);
21:27:35  <Darkvater> ?
21:27:37  <peter1138> yuck
21:27:44  <peter1138> don't we have return values any more?
21:28:07  <KUDr> bool
21:28:11  <BFM> In soviet Russia, Values return you!
21:28:17  <KUDr> false if allocation failed
21:28:24  <peter1138> in_use == NULL if allocation failed :P
21:28:28  <KUDr> but nobody tests it now
21:29:03  <KUDr> peter1138: you can't pass type information to the function via return value
21:29:14  <KUDr> therefore it is argument now
21:29:21  <caladan> Huh, you better do, segfault aint good thing ;]
21:29:25  <peter1138> that, i say, is gay
21:29:34  <Darkvater> caladan: lol
21:29:35  <KUDr> it saves you from using * sizeof(*ptr)
21:30:01  <Darkvater> caladan: you know what malloc-checking would amount to in openttd? if (a == NULL) error('insufficient memory')
21:30:05  <Darkvater> eg segfault
21:30:17  <Darkvater> so it's pretty useless to check the return of malloc
21:30:29  <peter1138> well
21:30:40  <Darkvater> (most of the time)
21:30:50  <Darkvater> cause if you're not getting any, it ain't gonna work anywyas
21:30:50  <peter1138> checking would give predictable errors
21:31:08  <Darkvater> not checking gives predictable segfaults
21:31:26  <Darkvater> T_T I miss the one-line mallocs
21:31:33  <Darkvater> type a = malloc(x);
21:31:34  <KUDr> you can alway check it by hijacking malloc and showing error and exit in case of failure
21:31:43  <Darkvater> type a; malloc(&a, x); looks so gay
21:31:58  <Darkvater> KUDr: all we do is whine, right? :)
21:32:17  <KUDr> Darkvater: one line mallocs with type are good only for local variables
21:32:23  <peter1138> type a = new type[x];
21:32:31  <KUDr> there you should use CBlobT<type>
21:32:41  <peter1138> BLOBS
21:32:46  <peter1138> ok
21:32:49  <peter1138> i'm going back to newgrf
21:32:52  <peter1138> it's saner
21:32:57  <KUDr> because CBlobT will call free when function exits
21:33:17  <KUDr> or different containers
21:33:23  <KUDr> like std::vector
21:33:23  <Darkvater> KUDr: I was talking about style ;)
21:33:36  <KUDr> yes, it is temporary as it is now
21:33:43  <KUDr> to get it working
21:33:48  <Darkvater> hmm
21:33:52  <Darkvater> why
21:33:57  <KUDr> then i expect big discussion about it
21:34:00  <Darkvater> sprite = calloc(width * height + 8, 1);
21:34:01  <Darkvater> sprite = (Sprite*)calloc(width * height + 8, 1);
21:34:03  <peter1138> a mass debate!
21:34:28  <Darkvater> probably can't use sizeof sprite there I assume
21:34:38  <KUDr> it is easy to rewrite to the form:
21:34:40  <KUDr>  type x = MallocT<type>(num_items);
21:34:50  <peter1138> wow
21:34:52  <KUDr> if you will like
21:34:57  <peter1138> why did i do a calloc like that?
21:35:05  <Darkvater> :O
21:35:09  <KUDr> i am ready to respect what you tell
21:35:15  <Darkvater> ?
21:35:41  * peter1138 -> bbl
21:35:45  <peter1138> maybe
21:35:52  <KUDr> peter1138: what calloc? something in newgrf?
21:36:24  <Darkvater> 138	 	                *map = malloc(info_ptr->width * info_ptr->height * sizeof(byte));  138	                *map = (byte*)malloc(info_ptr->width * info_ptr->height * sizeof(byte));
21:36:25  <stillunknown> calloc = malloc + NULL pointer if possible iirc
21:36:41  <ln-> gaaaaah
21:36:47  <ln-> Darkvater: i've got a question.
21:36:47  <Darkvater> isn't this MallocT(map, info_ptr->width*info_ptr->height); ?
21:37:08  <KUDr> where?
21:37:13  <Darkvater> heightmap.c
21:37:15  <KUDr> yes it is
21:37:16  <Darkvater> ~138
21:37:24  <Darkvater> and another one at ~250
21:37:29  <KUDr> but it would look like that somebody forgot &
21:37:39  <KUDr> and it can be problem
21:38:03  <KUDr> so i wasn't sure about it
21:38:13  <KUDr> wanted to discuss it
21:38:17  <ln-> Darkvater: why does Difficulty settings window have a damn "Save" button that one has to click?
21:38:17  <Darkvater> ah, ok
21:38:20  <stillunknown> Darkvater: how do you watch diffs without a websvn interface?
21:38:26  <KUDr> what you think about that
21:38:28  <Darkvater> Rubidium: you probably know this; heightmap code
21:38:36  <Darkvater> stillunknown: I'm special
21:38:48  <ln-> Darkvater: other settings windows do not need saving
21:38:54  <Darkvater> ln-: newgrf window does
21:38:57  <Rubidium> Darkvater: what's the problem?
21:39:07  <ln-> Darkvater: still, it's annoying.
21:39:23  <Darkvater> Rubidium: heightmap.c:138 are you sure that's correct is KUDr asking
21:40:17  <Darkvater> ln-: it has a save button because in case you're just looking around, seeing difficulties you don't get kicked to 'custom' even after you have set everything back
21:40:43  <Rubidium> yes, as it is _always_ a 8-bits grayscale image that is stores in that array
21:41:31  <ln-> Darkvater: how about an "Undo" button, and automatical saving when one closes the window? but before closing changes would be undoable.
21:42:15  <Darkvater> undo/save same thing
21:42:25  <Darkvater> you're just pissed cause you closed the window without pressing save
21:42:34  <ln-> exactly.
21:42:38  <Darkvater> someone else would be pissed because they closed the window without pressing undo
21:42:41  <Darkvater> same thing
21:43:08  <ln-> because the window behaves differently than other windows. that's highly illogical.
21:43:13  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I see, then it can be changed KUDr I think
21:43:22  <Darkvater> it's a special window
21:43:25  <ln-> i wouldn't mind if all windows had a save button.
21:43:27  <Darkvater> just as you are special as well ;)
21:44:29  <ln-> and the DMUs cannot turn around in the middle of the line if the "at the end of lines only" setting is chosen. why not?
21:44:37  <KUDr> Darkvater: you mean to change it to MallocT?
21:44:57  <Darkvater> well Rubidium does say it's always an 8-bit grayscale image
21:45:07  <Darkvater> no idea
21:45:08  <KUDr> it is not a problem
21:45:19  <Darkvater> bridge->sprite_table = calloc(7, sizeof(*bridge->sprite_table));
21:45:20  <Darkvater> CallocT(bridge->sprite_table, 7);
21:45:24  <KUDr> problem is that there will be missing '&'
21:45:34  <KUDr> map instead of &map
21:45:42  <Darkvater> why is that a problem?
21:45:51  <KUDr> so somebody can incorrectly recognize it as error
21:46:01  <KUDr> and put it there :)
21:46:10  <Darkvater> then the same would go for what I just pasted above then
21:46:47  <KUDr> ok
21:46:50  <Darkvater> that's why I think var = MallocT<type>(count); is better
21:46:50  <Rubidium> MallocT(/* NO & */map, ...) ?
21:47:13  <KUDr> Rubidium: good solution!
21:48:28  <Darkvater> it probably would've been easier to go the '22:34 < KUDr>  type x = MallocT<type>(num_items);' way
21:48:45  <Darkvater> less confusion and usable for all
21:48:46  <KUDr> maybe
21:48:53  <KUDr> ok
21:48:53  <Darkvater> but as a first step I don't mind
21:48:56  <CIA-1> rubidium * r7836 /trunk/src/network/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: some constness for network/core.
21:49:40  <Darkvater> Rubidium: constness \o/
21:50:55  * Darkvater goes back to bugfixing
21:51:20  <Darkvater> Rubidium: trunk/src/network/core/core.c is not a constness change ;p
21:51:26  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7837 /branches/cpp/src/heightmap.cpp: [cbh] - Codechange: two more malloc()s replaced
21:51:36  <Darkvater> what the?
21:51:41  <Darkvater> 153	 	static inline bool SetNonBlocking(int d)  153	static inline bool SetNonBlocking(const int d)
21:51:51  <Darkvater> since when are we const-ing non-pointers??
21:53:29  <Rubidium> since now? it shows that we do not intent to change that value
21:53:49  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:53:52  <Darkvater> we have never used it and it's unneeded as well
21:53:58  <Darkvater> since that value will be a LOCAL copy
21:54:08  <Darkvater> thus unchangable as far as the caller is concerned
21:55:46  <Rubidium> yes, but I've had some 'issues' with assigning values to the wrong variable. Making the variables that you are sure of do not change const, makes the compiler warn, instead of seeing the issue much later due to a bug(report)
21:55:48  <KUDr> hoh, getting better! 1059 error(s), 231 warning(s)
21:56:07  <Belugas_Gone> good night all
21:56:11  <Darkvater> gn Belugas_Gone
21:56:13  <Darkvater> big friend ^^
21:56:15  <KUDr> gn
21:56:16  <Maedhros> night Belugas_Gone
21:56:18  <Rubidium> night Belugas!
21:57:10  <Darkvater> KUDr: acceptable; shall we release as 0.5 final? ;)
21:57:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: don't do that :)
21:57:45  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
21:57:47  *** [gen2]niki [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:58:11  <Darkvater> Rubidium: fine for network but don't go changing every function's parameter to const
21:58:56  <Rubidium> ok
22:02:22  <KUDr> Darkvater: peter1138 was talking about YAPF bug
22:02:44  <Darkvater> ?
22:02:49  <ln-> 23:44 < ln-> and the DMUs cannot turn around in the middle of the line if the "at the end of lines only" setting is chosen. why not?
22:02:56  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:03:10  <KUDr> i dunno, somehow it gets wrong path but i have no case
22:04:44  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
22:04:44  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:04:49  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
22:05:15  <Wolf01> KUDr, what about cbh?
22:05:37  <KUDr> Wolf01: canceling
22:05:41  <KUDr> for now
22:05:51  <ArmEagle> hmm, now i'm really curious.. what is cbh?
22:05:59  <KUDr> postponet to later when we will have layered tiles
22:06:01  *** pecisk [~pecisk@] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
22:06:02  <Wolf01> custom bridgeheads
22:06:06  <ArmEagle> ah k
22:06:48  <Wolf01> seem that is the only feature that is more difficult to code than ttdpatch... excluding newgrf things
22:07:16  * Brianetta pokes all
22:07:22  <Brianetta> New game on Standard Server (:
22:07:22  * valhallasw pokes Brianetta
22:07:45  * nairan throws cookies at brianetta
22:07:58  * Brianetta catches them all in his mouth
22:08:17  <nairan> ever thought about poison? =P
22:08:25  * nairan laughs evilly
22:09:46  <nairan> lol sin city is made by toublemake studions =P
22:09:48  <Brianetta> poison?
22:09:56  <Brianetta> I had food poisoning last week
22:10:26  <nairan> *troublemaker studio
22:10:39  <Rubidium> Wolf01: there is a difference between the difficulty of coding something and the elegance of the solution. The custombridgeheads became such a hack that another approach had to be taken to do it elegant.
22:11:03  <peter1138> hmm
22:11:20  <Naksu> pff
22:11:31  <Naksu> elegancy is for the weak
22:11:34  <Naksu> real men code in perl
22:11:37  <Wolf01> add transparency options!
22:11:40  <valhallasw> wrong.
22:11:44  <valhallasw> real men code brainfuck.
22:11:53  <Naksu> nah
22:11:59  <Naksu> brainfuck isnt that brainfuck-ish
22:12:14  <Wolf01> whitespaces
22:12:17  <Naksu> malbolge is the real brainfuck
22:13:41  <Naksu> or this
22:13:49  <peter1138> Darkvater: static inline or macro for new MAKE_TRANSPARENT? heh
22:13:59  <peter1138> macro's looking more feasible...
22:14:09  <Brianetta> Let's port OpenTTD to Tcl
22:14:11  <Darkvater> what's the code for MAKE_TRANSPARENT?
22:14:44  <Brianetta> Actually, on a more serious note, let's have *all* patches adjustable at run-time, even if multiplayer
22:14:57  <Brianetta> like that "don't call at depots if you don't have breakdowns" one
22:15:07  <Brianetta> and difficulty levels, too
22:15:16  <Darkvater> all _patches are configurable
22:15:19  <Brianetta> server admins should be able to tweak that stuff without aborting the game
22:15:25  <Darkvater> even in MP
22:15:28  <Brianetta> that "don't call at depots if you don't have breakdowns" one isn't
22:15:49  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
22:15:55  <Darkvater> why?
22:15:58  <Brianetta> No idea
22:16:11  <peter1138>
22:16:24  <peter1138> it is changable, but only by the server admin
22:16:35  <peter1138> because it's not a user patch option
22:16:41  <Darkvater> Brianetta: no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns
22:17:09  <Brianetta> Was that a recent change?
22:17:15  <Darkvater> no
22:17:21  <Darkvater> been there FOR ages
22:17:32  <Darkvater> it's not my fault you can't find the proper values ;)
22:17:33  <Brianetta> I never managed to change it before
22:17:44  <Brianetta> What about difficulties?
22:17:48  <Darkvater> anything in the [patches] section of openttd.cfg is changable by the server
22:17:53  <peter1138> difficulties :/
22:17:54  <Wolf01> mine is better, i coded it with love :*
22:17:56  <Brianetta> WHen the players are screaming for you to turn off the damned breakdowns
22:18:20  <peter1138> Darkvater: some of them cause guaranteed desyncs :)
22:18:42  <Darkvater> peter1138: what would the macro be? I don't think you can do this with a macro
22:18:51  <Darkvater> difficulties :s
22:18:55  <Brianetta> diff_custom = 2,2,0,1,300,2,0,2,0,0,2,0,2,1,0,0,0,0
22:18:59  * Darkvater isn't touching that with a 10-foot pole
22:19:03  <Brianetta> That's one of the less pleasurable bits of the config
22:19:19  <Brianetta> I'd suggest turning them all into patches
22:19:24  <Brianetta> and re-writing the config file
22:19:31  <Darkvater> and rewriting the patches window
22:19:37  <Darkvater> and renaming patches
22:19:41  <Brianetta> erm
22:19:43  <Darkvater> and restructuring the patches window
22:19:51  <Brianetta> can't you leave it in the difficulty window?
22:20:03  <Brianetta> Is the gui that tied up with a specific part of the codE?
22:20:09  <Darkvater> no
22:20:29  <Darkvater> it's just that difficulty and certain parts of _patches are actually also difficulty
22:20:36  <Darkvater> therefore this whole distinction is kinda crap
22:20:43  <Darkvater> original difficulty + new difficulty optins
22:20:45  <Darkvater> or something :s
22:20:54  <Brianetta> oh
22:21:01  <Brianetta> so they could be added to the patches window as well
22:21:10  <Darkvater> yes
22:21:11  <Brianetta> or... just the config file would do (:
22:21:11  <peter1138>
22:21:14  <peter1138> something like that maybe
22:21:34  <Darkvater> peter1138: you can do that as well with static inline :)
22:21:37  <peter1138> though the inline one can be foo ? bar : baz
22:21:37  <peter1138> yes
22:21:40  <hylje> move patch options under game settings? :o
22:21:41  <peter1138> the difference is
22:21:48  <Darkvater> type safety
22:22:16  <peter1138> hm
22:22:38  <Darkvater> the only difference is _display_opt needs to be available in the .h where you make your function
22:22:44  <peter1138> yes
22:22:44  <Brianetta> What happens if you turn off build_on_slopes mid-game, I wonder?
22:22:48  <Brianetta> Politically, not technically
22:22:56  <peter1138> and the PALETTE_* stuff
22:23:01  <Darkvater> yeah
22:23:10  <Darkvater> Brianetta: people will lynch you :)
22:23:11  <peter1138> variables.h and table/sprites.h
22:23:12  <peter1138> so
22:23:14  <peter1138> where should i put it
22:23:21  <Darkvater> Brianetta: or turn off long-bridges ;p
22:23:30  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Quit: HMage]
22:23:31  <peter1138> i tried gfx.h but not everything that includes that includes the other two...
22:23:53  <peter1138> table/sprites.h doesn't seem appropriate :P
22:24:17  <Darkvater> damn those header files ;p
22:24:38  <Darkvater> without the issues I'd say gfx.h is the proper place for such functions
22:25:13  <peter1138> #define NO_ISSUES
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22:25:18  <peter1138> solution :D
22:25:29  <peter1138> hmm
22:25:30  * peter1138 ponders
22:25:34  <peter1138> DrawSprite is in gfx.c
22:25:34  <Wolf01> night
22:25:35  <Darkvater> you couldinclude table/sprites.h in gfx.h; I'm more vorried about varaibles.h
22:25:37  <Darkvater> eh
22:25:39  <Darkvater> worried
22:25:39  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
22:25:43  <peter1138> but defined elsewhere
22:25:58  <Darkvater> but variables.h is fcking ungly
22:26:01  <peter1138> maybe i should fix up that sort of stuff
22:26:06  <peter1138> yes it is
22:26:09  <Darkvater> T_T I lost my typing skills
22:26:31  <Brianetta> Current value for 'max_ships' is: '20' (min: 0, max: 5000)
22:26:31  <peter1138> that's ok, i'm used to Bjarni  ;)
22:26:35  <Brianetta> Reasonable?
22:26:48  <peter1138> yeah, that'll solve yapf being crap for ships
22:26:50  <Darkvater> keeps down the CPU hogging ;)
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22:27:08  <Darkvater> well you can turn off yapf for ships and use opf
22:27:16  <peter1138> hello hmage. do you know how to put mail;man into utf8?
22:27:18  <peter1138> -;
22:27:28  <Darkvater> ships'll just get lost for routes > 127 tiles, but that's acceptable
22:27:41  <Darkvater> (and turn off npf)
22:27:43  <peter1138> iirc, yapf needs those buoys too...
22:27:52  <peter1138> or maybe my setting was wrong
22:28:05  <Darkvater> hmm it does?
22:28:13  <KUDr> no
22:28:20  <KUDr> sometimes they can help
22:28:29  <peter1138> my settings must have been wrong then
22:28:38  <KUDr> so route is more accurate with them
22:29:12  <peter1138> ahhh
22:29:12  <peter1138> no
22:29:17  <KUDr> ahhh you maybe talking about "Ship is lost" message
22:29:17  <peter1138> it's a bug in order_cmd.c then
22:29:23  <peter1138> if (v->type == VEH_Ship && IsHumanPlayer(v->owner) && sel_ord != 0 && GetVehicleOrder(v, sel_ord - 1)->type == OT_GOTO_STATION && !_patches.new_pathfinding_all) {
22:29:28  <hylje> nice if
22:29:29  <KUDr> aha
22:29:30  <peter1138> it doesn't account for yapf being enabled
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22:30:01  <HMage> not exactly, peter, but if the mailman just relays the encodings, then you need to modify the template used for svn commit reports
22:30:17  <peter1138> hmm
22:30:29  <peter1138> i don't, as it's nothing to do with me :)
22:31:05  <Darkvater> *tum* *tum* truebrain to the rescue!
22:31:39  <peter1138> i asked him
22:31:43  <peter1138> his official response was "i hate utf8"
22:31:51  <Darkvater> he
22:31:54  <Darkvater> asked him as well now
22:31:57  <peter1138> and then he asked me to find out how :)
22:32:08  <Darkvater> lol
22:32:17  <Darkvater> welll HMage it's up to you then I think
22:32:29  <Darkvater> HMage: if you find out how to tell it to mailman TB will fix it
22:34:47  <HMage> I don't know the exact process you guys use. But it must be somewhere in the chain of generating report -> wrapping into a valid email message -> attaching content-encoding header with the value of 'iso-8859-15', giving the properly generated mail to the mailman so he can spam everyone with that. Either that, or the mailman is configured to attach content-encoding header himself if he finds none.
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22:35:59  <Duckleon> hi
22:37:25  <HMage> if you you have the possibility to look through mailman configuration and docs for the conf, peter1138, then I suggest you look for 'encoding' word somewhere there. I don't know, maybe the default is set to iso-8859-15 if you don't specify an encoding in the config, or mailman takes that from machine's the locale settings.
22:37:32  <HMage> machine's locale settings*
22:37:53  <Brianetta> KUDr: Can YAPF use buoys without an order?
22:38:01  <KUDr> no
22:38:09  <Brianetta> Perhaps that's an idea
22:38:26  <Brianetta> If you find a buoy owned by your player, flag it as a successful waypoint found
22:38:34  <Brianetta> Saves orders
22:38:44  <HMage> bouys are owned by no one
22:38:47  <Brianetta> You jusr chain the buoys along and it would make up a shipping lane
22:38:57  <KUDr> but it can be way sub-optimal route
22:39:12  <KUDr> such pathfinder you can write in tcl
22:39:23  <KUDr> we need accurate one
22:39:28  <Brianetta> hmm
22:39:41  <Brianetta> I still think that my idea from earlier was OK
22:40:37  <Brianetta> Pathfind the entire route for a given set of orders, and save that
22:40:38  <KUDr> so do it
22:40:53  <Brianetta> no
22:41:09  <Brianetta> Not because I can't, and not because I'm not bothered
22:41:18  <KUDr> and then you will face problems like tiles changed, etc
22:41:22  <Brianetta> yes
22:41:24  <Brianetta> of course
22:41:26  <hylje> face problems
22:41:27  <hylje> har har
22:41:53  <Brianetta> so if a ship finds that it can't move along its route, then is the time to calculate a new one
22:42:02  <Brianetta> and then move the ship onto that route
22:42:29  <Brianetta> if massive terraforming is happening allt he time, then ships aren't viable anyway
22:42:57  <stillunknown> a pathfinder must be consistent
22:43:16  <stillunknown> or it must have a big label saying, works when doing a,b anc c
22:43:18  <stillunknown> *and
22:43:35  <Brianetta> No pathfinder for ships can do everything
22:43:48  <Brianetta> like bavigate out of a bay that somebody filled in and turned into a pond
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22:45:16  <pv2b> why does yapf for ships take so much cpu anyway?
22:45:25  <Brianetta> because it looks for a complete route
22:45:26  <pv2b> i'd have thought yapf for road vehicles and trains would be a much harder problem
22:45:29  <hylje> it sucks
22:45:32  <Brianetta> rather than the next best 127 tiles
22:45:39  <KUDr> cause it is not fast enough
22:45:41  <hylje> trains are simple
22:45:49  <hylje> they have defined routes
22:45:58  <Brianetta> a* has rather a number of possible choices when running on the open sea
22:46:00  <hylje> ships have a defined route of the sea
22:46:33  <pv2b> i'd imagine a useful pathfinding algorithm would divide the sea into "areas"
22:46:55  <Brianetta> That can lead to problems of its own
22:47:00  <Brianetta> an area can be divided by land
22:47:12  <pv2b> then it, by definition isn't an area of sea :-)
22:47:22  <peter1138> predefined shipping lanes :D
22:47:26  <Brianetta> Then you have to keep looking for new areas of sea
22:47:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: Yes
22:47:43  <Brianetta> peter1138: Well, my idea was shipping lanes made by the pathfinder and then stored
22:47:46  <pv2b> Brianetta: not really, the splitting of the sea into areas would be relatively easy.
22:47:51  <peter1138> it is displeasing to see ships following the very edge of the terrain...
22:47:54  <pv2b> and could be done globally.
22:48:02  <Brianetta> That's what ships did before the sextant
22:48:38  <Brianetta> It's a shame lighthouses aren't useful for pathfinding
22:49:00  <peter1138> well it's daylight all the time
22:49:10  <peter1138> so the chickens lay their eggs
22:49:15  <Brianetta> lighthouses are painted red and white for a reason
22:49:32  <Brianetta> so they work during the day (:
22:49:53  <peter1138> oo yuck
22:49:59  <peter1138> crud at the bottom of my glass
22:50:04  * peter1138 -> bedward
22:50:06  <peter1138> nini
22:52:34  <pv2b> so what does yapf do now?
22:52:40  <pv2b> find routes tile by tile?
22:52:49  <KUDr> yes
22:52:57  <KUDr> suboptimal
22:55:48  <pv2b> i imagine a mesh-like data structure where the nodes are comprised of different continious non-branching areas of water might be useful
22:55:59  <pv2b> but that's just as a layman :-)
22:57:10  <pv2b> factoring the problem into two sub-problems - finding a global route by traversing certain areas and finding a local route from point a to b within an area.
23:03:36  <pv2b> what does the old ship pathfinding do?
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23:08:29  <Bjarni> hmm
23:08:35  <Bjarni> looked a bit on that C++ thing
23:09:20  <pv2b> "that c++ thing"?
23:09:44  <Bjarni> I'm sure I'm missing something because I can't find anything that would justify the work to rewrite OTTD into C++
23:09:57  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7838 /branches/cpp/src/ (52 files in 7 dirs): [cpp] - Codechange: realloc() calls replaced by ReallocT()
23:10:16  <KUDr> Bjarni: nobody is rewriting it
23:10:33  <Bjarni> then what are you doing? :)
23:10:58  <KUDr> why you still complain? if you want you can learn easily C++ differencies from C
23:11:20  <KUDr> Bjarni: i am making it compilable by C++ compiler
23:11:33  <KUDr> that is much better, smarter and type-safe
23:11:39  <Bjarni> I say that I looked at templates, but basically they are a mix of functions and structs, right?
23:11:50  <pv2b> Brianetta: no... that's a class
23:11:50  <Brianetta>
23:11:50  <KUDr> no
23:11:51  <pv2b> err
23:11:55  <pv2b> s/Brianetta/Bjarni/
23:12:01  <pv2b> a template is a lot like a #define :-)
23:12:11  <KUDr> can be temlate function or template struct
23:12:12  <pv2b> except with a lot of automagic in it
23:12:37  <KUDr> templates are type-safe #defines
23:13:00  <KUDr> and you Bjarni have no reason to complain
23:13:12  <KUDr> you need type-safe compiler
23:13:13  <Bjarni> I didn't complain this time (I think)
23:13:18  <KUDr> as well as we all
23:13:41  <pv2b> what does C++ provide in the department of type safety anyway?
23:13:49  <Bjarni> I just wonder what this is all about... I fail to see how this is a great and must have improvement to the game
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23:14:18  <KUDr> you can see it when we will benefit from it
23:14:30  <KUDr> not when we are trying to make it compilable
23:14:35  <Bjarni> I get that you can write max() in a type safe way, but there got to be more to it
23:14:46  *** Zahl22 [] has joined #openttd
23:14:47  <KUDr> yes
23:14:50  *** Zahl [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Zahl22))]
23:14:50  <KUDr> there is
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23:14:51  <pv2b> you can write max in a type safe way in C too :-)
23:14:52  <Bjarni> I'm not looking at your commits at the moment
23:14:55  <KUDr> like pools
23:14:57  <KUDr> and so on
23:15:01  <Bjarni> I'm speaking of C++ in general
23:15:03  <KUDr> they can be faster
23:15:10  <KUDr> and without void**
23:15:12  <KUDr> and so on
23:15:45  <KUDr> this is crazy to ignore types and even more crazy to use void* for all callbacks and so on
23:16:12  <KUDr> templates and polymorphism
23:16:25  <KUDr> this is what is improved there reg. design
23:16:25  <Bjarni> you are saying that we should start to make classes as well?
23:16:41  <KUDr> but type-safety is usually the main reason to use it
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23:16:57  <KUDr> Bjarni: we have many classes
23:17:02  <KUDr> vehicles
23:17:06  <KUDr> Industry
23:17:08  <KUDr> Tiles
23:17:11  <KUDr> etc
23:17:23  <KUDr> but we do it just more complicated way
23:17:30  <Bjarni> those are structs at the moment
23:17:36  <KUDr> and then the code is obscure
23:17:41  <KUDr> no
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23:17:48  <pv2b> Bjarni: a class is no more heavy than a struct in C++.
23:17:57  <KUDr> from design POV they are classes
23:18:11  <KUDr> no
23:18:17  <KUDr> class == struct
23:18:21  <KUDr> no difference
23:18:32  <pv2b> there is a slight difference in syntax
23:18:35  <pv2b> but else they're the same
23:18:50  <pv2b> class defaults members to be private, structs default them to be public.
23:18:50  <KUDr> except default member protection is private for classes and publis for struct
23:19:01  <pv2b> other than that, in memory, they're identical
23:19:02  <Bjarni> right... so say we make this Vehicle class
23:19:04  <PandaMojo> inheritence too, but yeah.
23:19:05  <KUDr> no difference in syntax
23:19:15  <Bjarni> it will contain the data and then what
23:19:25  <KUDr> Vehicle is already the class
23:19:37  <KUDr> it contains data
23:19:42  <pv2b> Bjarni: you get do v->whatever(); instead of Vehicle_whatever(v); :-)
23:19:46  <Bjarni> the last time I checked, it was a struct in vehicle.h
23:19:59  <Darkvater> he
23:20:04  <KUDr> technically struct == class
23:20:09  <KUDr> featurewise
23:20:27  <Darkvater> now where was I
23:20:28  <pv2b> C doesn't have object-orienting, but you can still think in an object-oriented way in C.
23:20:32  <KUDr> just different private/public default argument protection
23:20:43  <KUDr> yes
23:20:54  <KUDr> and we have many OO things in ottd
23:21:08  <KUDr> like all in queue.c
23:21:12  <KUDr> aystar.c
23:21:15  <KUDr> pools.c
23:21:17  <KUDr> etc
23:21:22  <KUDr> nice things
23:21:39  <KUDr> but can be done easier way in C++
23:21:42  <KUDr> and typesafe
23:21:45  <KUDr> and faster
23:22:04  <Darkvater> did you guys nick my usb-key? :(
23:22:16  <KUDr> and Bjarni: your engine_lists with many reallocs
23:22:22  <KUDr> and mistakes
23:22:36  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I didn't do it and I got witnesses that can claim that I will not have had time to go to NL today
23:22:37  <KUDr> because of type-unsafe compiler
23:23:04  <Darkvater> I don't trust you
23:23:07  <Bjarni> you mean the depot windows?
23:23:14  <Bjarni> or the build lists?
23:23:17  <Bjarni> or both...
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23:23:31  <KUDr> engine build lists
23:23:41  <KUDr> i didn't see the rest
23:23:49  <pv2b> KUDr: i'm having a hard time understanding how c++ can make anything faster in itself.
23:23:51  <KUDr> but it was enough
23:23:53  <Bjarni> depot_gui.c
23:23:59  <PandaMojo> pv2b: Faster to write i think he means.
23:24:12  <KUDr> pv2b: many times i bothered to explain it here
23:24:14  <Bjarni> it got... interesting stuff as well if you haven't seen it before. It's not that tricky once you look closely at it
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23:24:19  <KUDr> sorry today i am busy
23:24:30  <PandaMojo> Also, C++ makes it a bit easier to share code in places (e.g. template containers), meaning optimizations to that area need be applied to only one bit of code, rather than multiple sections.
23:24:54  <KUDr> yes
23:25:04  <KUDr> code can be much more optimal
23:25:09  <Bjarni> so say we use C++ for the build window... how will that be an improvement. The task is to make a list of engineIDs
23:25:19  <KUDr> or also much more unoptimal :) it depends
23:25:21  <Bjarni> and update it as needed (increase/decrease size)
23:25:39  <Darkvater> already a HUGE update would be single function for lists
23:25:48  <Darkvater> eg towns list, industries list, stations list etc
23:25:54  <KUDr> Bjarni: not 'we use C++ for ... blabla"
23:26:06  <Darkvater> we have all DIFFERENT functions for that that DO THE SAME just with different types
23:26:15  <Darkvater> in C++ you write ONE templatized function and you're done
23:26:22  <KUDr> but if you need list of uint16 you declare it as std::list<uint16>
23:26:40  <pv2b> in objective c, you write a single function that deals with "id"'s and you're done, without having to hack with templates
23:26:43  <pv2b> ;-)
23:26:48  <KUDr> and you have well done, robust and fast list optimized for uint16 items
23:27:10  <Darkvater> dammit I hate the linux dedicated server
23:27:10  <KUDr> then you need map from string to struct Vethicle*
23:27:16  <Darkvater> why doesn't  <backspace> work?
23:27:36  <KUDr> so you write std::map<std::string, Vehicle*>
23:27:40  <KUDr> and so on
23:27:53  <Darkvater> I don't think we want that :)
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23:30:15  <KUDr> Bjarni: we will still do most things in plain C, but if we will need i.e. some container, we can use it
23:30:21  <KUDr> not to write everything
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23:30:50  <KUDr> now you can't use it
23:31:02  <KUDr> you must do hacks like helpers.cpp
23:31:11  <KUDr> to expose it to C
23:32:09  <Rubidium> KUDr: why have you added helpers.hpp to (almost) every cpp file?
23:32:20  <Bjarni> so the plan is to keep the code as close to C as possible.... then what will change?
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23:32:37  <Bjarni> we will use some templates instead of defines and what?
23:32:41  <KUDr> since there are new mallocs
23:32:44  <KUDr> needed there
23:33:04  <KUDr> i added it only where it complained that MallocT is unknown
23:33:09  <KUDr> etc.
23:33:31  <Bjarni> you don't plan to change helpers.hpp much, do you?
23:33:32  <KUDr> Bjarni: not only instead of defines
23:33:39  <Rubidium> at least one of them is redundant in console.cpp
23:33:50  <KUDr> ohh
23:33:54  <KUDr> thanks
23:34:13  <KUDr> Bjarni: there will be added more things
23:34:20  <KUDr> for enums and so on
23:34:32  <KUDr> it is just first part
23:34:43  <KUDr> one step from many
23:35:03  <KUDr> DV wanted more granular commits with explanation what i did
23:35:16  <Bjarni> yeah, I understand that part
23:35:33  <Bjarni> I'm also against huge commits, that comes out of nowhere
23:35:53  <pv2b> KUDr: what are you doing in the cpp branch? changing the c code so it compiles in a c++ compiler, or are you actually objectifying the existing c modules?
23:36:16  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what is it you don't actually like about C++? Or you don't know why it's being done?
23:36:49  <KUDr> pv2b: the first one
23:38:03  <CIA-1> KUDr * r7839 /branches/cpp/src/console.cpp: [cpp] - Removed redundant #include "helpers.hpp" (Rubidium)
23:38:15  <Bjarni> Darkvater: well, I don't know C++ and even though I looked at it, I never actually got the idea behind it and also I trying to figure out what the big benefits of this would be
23:39:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni: KUDr has been trying to tell you. type-safety, templates, easier and less error-prone code
23:39:35  <Bjarni> well, I once coded a bit C++, but I never really got the idea behind it and now I forgot the part I understood back then (it was years ago)
23:39:58  <caladan> Templates give you for example vector
23:40:00  <Bjarni> yeah, I understand that much... now the question is how that works ;)
23:40:05  <caladan> it can hold anything
23:40:25  <caladan> you can have vector<car>;
23:40:30  <caladan> and then you add new car
23:40:31  <caladan> so
23:40:40  <caladan> casr* my_car = new(car);
23:40:52  <Bjarni> isn't vector that resizeable array thing, that can take ages to resize?
23:40:58  <caladan> no
23:41:07  <caladan> it allocates memory for the future in some chunks
23:41:09  <PandaMojo> Bjarni: if realloc can take ages to resize, then yes.
23:41:21  <PandaMojo> Unlike realloc, though, it'll hoard memory for reuse later.
23:41:46  <PandaMojo> And resize by a factor of it's current size at minimum when it's forced to reallocate, reserving some extra memory.
23:41:56  <PandaMojo> So you don't reallocated every time you add an alement to a size 10000 list.
23:42:06  <PandaMojo> *element
23:42:37  <caladan> you can always write something like that on your own
23:42:46  <Bjarni> yeah
23:42:55  <Bjarni> I wrote something like that in C not long ago
23:43:15  <caladan> hehe, so in C++ its easier, cause it holds data types
23:43:17  <Bjarni> or maybe it was long ago by now... doesn't matter. I wrote it
23:43:57  <caladan> In objects you can protect data inside from being changed by someone you wouldnt like to change it
23:44:22  <caladan> and you dont have to name functions like: ChangeTheNameOfCar
23:44:34  <caladan> Cause you got car.changename(); :D
23:44:40  <pv2b> bah. you should just use objective c :-)
23:44:41  <KUDr> true
23:44:57  <caladan> but good thing is for example having one class vehicle
23:45:11  <caladan> and then inheriting from it car,train,plane and ship :-)
23:45:26  <caladan> So they all have like name property
23:45:37  <caladan> and share the same function changename()
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23:47:14  <Darkvater> caladan: that is something we've had in mind for a while
23:47:14  <Rubidium> Bjarni: the main advantage, for the near future, of C++ is not the fact that it has classes but that you have a type checking compiler. This causes possible errors to show up earlier. The second advantage can be seen in those templates, which are used to make generic type-safe defines and functions (am I right?). Rewriting everything to classes is not planned for the near future (AFAIK).
23:47:27  <Darkvater> all effects like smoke, sparks, whatever are also a *FULL* vehicle
23:47:35  <Bjarni> so we get say v.GetUnitNumber() for all of them, but only v.GetPower() for trains?
23:47:37  <Darkvater> having subclasses really eases this
23:48:01  <caladan> Bjarni: Yes
23:48:12  <caladan> You can have functions common to all vehicles
23:48:19  <Bjarni> hmm
23:48:24  <caladan> you can have fiunctions named the same, doint something else
23:48:35  <Bjarni> I remember something about this....
23:48:36  <caladan> like for example selling vehicle
23:48:44  <caladan> you can have one function for that
23:48:59  <Bjarni> and the issue where the class and the subclass contained functions using the same names
23:49:17  <KUDr> Rubidium: correct
23:49:24  <Darkvater> you can have v.getpower() and it will return the power of ALL wagons for example for a train and that of only the engine for a vehicle without a big-switch inside
23:49:27  <Darkvater> or somewhere else
23:49:28  <caladan> it depends how you write it
23:49:59  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7840 /trunk/src/ (ottdres.rc win32.c):
23:49:59  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Change the crash window a bit. Tell about Flyspray and crash.dmp. Remove
23:49:59  <CIA-1>  text about submitting crash report.
23:50:21  <caladan> Bjarni: you can overload functions
23:50:30  <caladan> so you give the same name, but it does something else
23:50:31  <Darkvater> have default parameters :)
23:50:37  <Bjarni> we can have v.GetPower() for the vehicle alone and v.GetPower() for the combined power of the whole train if we like.... if/when we use a vehicle class
23:50:37  <caladan> true
23:51:01  <caladan> you can do something like this:
23:51:08  <caladan> do_something(int x=0);
23:51:16  <caladan> so you can call it do_something(5);
23:51:23  <caladan> or do_something()
23:51:28  <caladan> and x will  be 0 then
23:51:53  <Digitalfox> never got this.. what was first invented c / c# / c++ ? I'm no programmer so sorry if i'm saying obe big joke.. :\
23:51:58  <pv2b> Digitalfox: c.
23:52:05  <PandaMojo> C -> C++ -> C#
23:52:06  <Darkvater> go by the number of + after the C
23:52:15  <Darkvater> c=0, c++=2 c#=4
23:52:28  <caladan> b->c->obectivec->c#
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23:53:12  <Bjarni> caladan: I was about to write that :P
23:53:22  <Digitalfox> And they were updates of each one so started with c, then some updates and changes and appear c++ and then more changes and updates and c# appear? Is this the right way of seeing it?
23:53:30  <Bjarni> except I might have used a "j" :P
23:53:44  <Darkvater> C# is not compatible with C/C++
23:53:51  <PandaMojo> I have it logged somewhere
23:53:56  <Bjarni> C# is something completely different
23:53:58  <PandaMojo> I'd rather strain my brain cells
23:54:08  <KUDr> C# is like Java - interpreted
23:54:15  <caladan> And most compiliers do a metacode for virtual machine, not for real uC
23:54:17  <PandaMojo> Whoops, wrong window
23:54:20  <caladan> or rather uP
23:54:26  <KUDr> not good for low-level programming
23:55:22  <caladan> cause you must translate that metacode to normal code for that computer
23:55:37  <Digitalfox> Jesus you programmers, live in another world what a confusion with ways of programming.. I have start a curse of programming.. Ops.. Wait i'm a network guy.. So i'll just live with money from that pay me :)
23:56:00  <SpComb>
23:56:05  <caladan> lol
23:56:07  <SpComb> just read the various wikipedia articles...
23:56:18  <caladan> Digitalfox &= 1;
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23:56:28  <caladan> you have just been reduced to just one bit :P
23:57:10  <caladan> Just be happy we dont code in asembler :P
23:57:42  <Digitalfox> i'm heading to wiki to understand this c and c++ business..
23:58:03  <Bjarni> 	<caladan>	Just be happy we dont code in asembler :P <-- how would you code a multiplatform game in ASM?
23:58:16  <Darkvater> with lots of #defines
23:58:18  <caladan> Digitalfox: learn something about brainfuck
23:58:31  <caladan> im talkin in general, not about ottd now
23:58:37  <Digitalfox> Assembler like what?? Just 0 and 1..  Binary , hexadecimal  ;)
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23:58:46  <Bjarni> ...
23:58:47  <caladan> im electronic, so i use different microcontrollers
23:58:50  <caladan> no, no
23:59:06  <caladan> you use mnemonics, that are hmmm, instructions for processor
23:59:17  <caladan> like add ax,bx mean add two numbers in right registers
23:59:27  <caladan> to call a function you do:
23:59:28  <Bjarni> each instruction in machinecode got a name and then you tell the computer what to do based on those names
23:59:30  <caladan> push param1
23:59:32  <caladan> push param2
23:59:35  <caladan> push param3
23:59:38  <Bjarni> yeah, like that
23:59:40  <caladan> call smthing
23:59:44  <Darkvater> you usuall push params from the end
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23:59:54  <Darkvater> push param3, push param2, push param1, call food
23:59:56  <Darkvater> -d

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