Log for #openttd on 11th January 2007:
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00:00:06  <Smoovious> huh... ok, well, I'm stayingon now... wtf
00:00:13  <Darkvater> your client needs to sync up with the game state
00:00:45  <Smoovious> what happened the first time is I just finished making 8 oil tankers, and setting routes for them... 2 on each route... and started them all together using the green flag in the depot window
00:00:59  <Smoovious> the tankers appeared, and started to bog down
00:01:12  <Smoovious> and for the past 6 tries, I couldn't get back in, either logged in or as observer
00:01:52  <Darkvater> hmm ships use NPF
00:01:55  <Darkvater> that's never good
00:02:12  <Smoovious> just don't get why it should have impacted me so hard like that
00:02:35  <Darkvater> no idea
00:02:39  <Darkvater> lemme benchmark this
00:02:43  <Smoovious> it is set to not use YAPF by default
00:02:59  <Darkvater> it's also set to not use NPF by default
00:05:30  <Smoovious> it suddenly dragged down, like when the compressor on my air conditioning in the car, cracked, and sprayed freon all over the engine while I was on the freeway...
00:05:58  <Darkvater> that must've been a sight :)
00:07:03  <Smoovious> well, lets just say it was a good thing I had my seat-belt on when the engine seized up
00:09:38  <Smoovious> ack
00:10:00  <CIA-1> glx * r8048 /branches/newhouses/src/town.h: [newhouses] -Fix r8046: now it links :) (thanks KUDr)
00:10:00  <Smoovious> shouldn't have made those ships... was doing just fine before them
00:10:22  <Darkvater> so what error do you have?
00:10:38  <Rubidium_> and what version are you running?
00:10:50  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:10:58  <Smoovious> it just gets sluggish, and I disconnect... (RC3)... didn't help that the other guy was terriforming near me either
00:11:10  <Darkvater> weird, I don't have any probs
00:11:34  <Smoovious> making those ships was the only new thing I did... I've been having hundreds of road vehicles and aircraft no problem... soon as those ships appear tho... blah...
00:12:01  <Smoovious> if I can stay in long enough, I'll get rid of em
00:12:01  <Darkvater> he, BinaryHeap_Delete, Hash_FindNode and NPFHash all used 5% CPU in the game
00:12:03  <Darkvater> top 3
00:12:24  <Darkvater> Smoovious: tell bart to turn on yapf-ships, might help you
00:12:35  <Smoovious> k...
00:12:37  <Smoovious> HEY BART! :)
00:12:44  <Darkvater> ingame
00:12:49  <Smoovious> I know. :D
00:13:12  <Smoovious> ok, all ships heading to depot
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00:17:35  <Smoovious> that's wierd... suddenly it all cleared up
00:18:19  <Bjarni> <--- I wouldn't know
00:18:34  <Bjarni> you see, that would demand an income
00:23:36  <picitlama> and income tax
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00:32:07  <Bjarni> yeah, you need to make some sort of income to pay income tax
00:36:12  <picitlama> legal income
00:36:31  <picitlama> so bank robbery or prostitution no
00:37:17  <Bjarni> for some odd reason prostitution is legal here, so the tax people show up at them once in a while and they never pay their taxes like they should
00:37:30  <Bjarni> this was btw a demand from EU
00:38:29  <Bjarni> it was legalised shortly before Denmark became chairman of EU and it appears that the many EU people (from other countries) really wanted to use such "services"
00:38:53  <Smoovious> trivial bug, but buoy's are being numbered from 9 to 1, instead of 1 to 9
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00:39:14  <Bjarni> now people want to ban it again because of the crime it takes with it
00:39:32  <Smoovious> vices are always safer when they're legal... something our own gov't has yet to wise up to
00:39:38  <SpComb> "Error: Cannot create bouy: Illegal Bouy name '0'"
00:39:39  <Bjarni> Smoovious: I noticed that more than 2 and a half years ago
00:39:51  <Bjarni> nobody cared back then
00:40:07  * Smoovious grins.
00:40:22  <Smoovious> well, as bugs go, it isn't that big of a deal
00:40:44  <picitlama> Bjarni: then police save the girls, like any other workers
00:40:45  <Darkvater> doesn't that make a crash though?
00:40:59  <Darkvater> Bjarni: if you noticed, why didn't you fix it?
00:41:00  <picitlama> save=protect
00:41:24  <FlashFF> zomg mysql logs ftw!
00:41:26  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	Bjarni: if you noticed, why didn't you fix it? <--- because I lacked commit rights back then
00:41:31  <Bjarni> picitlama: not really
00:41:36  <Darkvater> lol
00:41:38  <KUDr> Bjarni: here is prostitution also legal. And only the problems it causes is that in some cities it goes nasty on the streets
00:41:55  <KUDr> So some cities regulate it
00:42:55  <Bjarni> I want the Swedish solution. Make it a crime for to pay for such "services". If men risk going to jail, most of them tend not to dare doing so
00:42:56  <pv2b> the cpp branch was merged with trunk?
00:43:04  <Bjarni> pv2b: yes
00:43:42  <KUDr> Bjarni: but it is service as each other, why should it be crime to pay for service?
00:43:47  <Bjarni> Darkvater: nobody cared -> ludde and Vurlix didn't care
00:44:45  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
00:44:50  <Smoovious> I don't mind it being regulated, but if you don't leave some kind of legal avenue for people's vices, then you leave no alternative but for it to go criminal
00:45:15  <Bjarni> KUDr: 1: it spreads STDs, 2: there is a whole lot of women forced into prostitution (by people in Eastern Europe)
00:45:26  <Bjarni> maybe reverse that order
00:45:48  <picitlama> KUDr: because this is bad for the women, and forced prostitution a big problem
00:45:48  <Bjarni> the point is that whenever such activities shows up, crime tend to follow
00:46:15  <KUDr> forced prostitution is big crime here
00:46:24  <Bjarni> I know
00:46:27  <KUDr> but many of them want to do it
00:46:37  <Bjarni> I'm not so sure
00:46:44  <Bjarni> why would they want to do it?
00:47:14  <Bjarni> not because they get money, because they don't
00:47:24  <KUDr> and from the health POV it is absolutelly safe - it is regulated - they must undertake many health exams
00:47:28  <Bjarni> other people keep the money they earn
00:47:34  <Smoovious> and a lot of women see it as currency anyways... prostitution or not...
00:47:38  <Smoovious> means to an end...
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00:48:28  <picitlama> Bjarni: sex is generally a good thing, so if someone don't have (enough) sex by love/marriage/incest, there a demand
00:48:32  <KUDr> if there is offer and lso demand, it should be legal - in non-forced form
00:48:50  <picitlama> Bjarni: and where a demand, there are services
00:49:05  <KUDr> otherwise it goes to underground and there is much bigger risk of health problems and crime
00:49:15  <Bjarni> there is a demand for stolen cars as well. Should we legalise that?
00:49:39  <picitlama> no
00:49:59  <Bjarni> so the argument of legalising everything because there is a demand is no good
00:50:00  <picitlama> if you stole a car, then somebody (the owner of the car) losts money
00:50:03  <KUDr> Bjarni: stolen cars hurt somebody
00:50:06  <KUDr> sex not
00:50:20  <Bjarni> how do you know that for sure?
00:50:21  <picitlama> Bjarni: but a hypotetcial clean prostitution dont hurt anybody
00:50:31  <KUDr> you must not cause troubles to others
00:50:56  <picitlama> Bjarni: this is the function of the govt.
00:50:57  <Bjarni> <picitlama>	Bjarni: but a hypotetcial clean prostitution dont hurt anybody <-- those only exists in theory
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00:51:08  <KUDr> picitlama: if there is no offer, there would be much more sexual crime
00:51:12  <Smoovious> having a car isn't illegal... stealing one is...
00:51:25  <KUDr> like pedofilia and so on
00:51:40  <picitlama> Bjarni: here, in hungary, sometimes you can find workers handled like slaves.
00:51:53  <pv2b> if prostitution is illegal, why is being a coal miner (for example) legal?
00:52:05  <Smoovious> picitlama... is it legal there?
00:52:25  <picitlama> Bjarni: this is the same problem, just the work is not prostitution, but potato picking
00:52:33  <picitlama> Smoovious: not really
00:52:40  <KUDr> picitlama: here too (from ukraina or russia) but it is because their 'friends' do it
00:52:55  <Smoovious> picitlama: then of course you are going to have it hit rock-bottom
00:53:11  <picitlama> KUDr: forced prostituion is slavery, and i think one of the worst type of slavery :(
00:53:18  <picitlama> Smoovious: hm?
00:53:23  <KUDr> yes
00:53:26  <KUDr> agre
00:53:34  <KUDr> it should not be forced
00:53:34  <pv2b> forced labour is orthogonal to prostitution though
00:53:37  <Darkvater> are we legalizing prositituion here?
00:53:40  <Smoovious> same thing with recreational drugs... gov't is always talking about the drugs being the problem and talk about the problem being all the crime/violence/guns/etc... when all of those are a function of it being illegal...
00:53:53  <KUDr> Darkvater: we did
00:53:57  <pv2b> Smoovious: agree.
00:54:04  <picitlama> Darkvater: no, planning new factory types in the game. Brothel and party-bus to transport.
00:54:06  <Bjarni> <picitlama>	KUDr: forced prostituion is slavery, and i think one of the worst type of slavery :( <-- this is what we got for legalising prostitution and the main reason it should be banned. Right now it's perfectly legal for men to visit such places
00:54:13  <Smoovious> give people who like to use them, a legal avenue, which can be regulated, then all the rest of that becomes unprofitable...
00:54:15  <Darkvater> In Holland where prostitution has been legalized a lot of thoe workers complain about the worsening of their working conditions
00:54:27  <pv2b> Smoovious: not neccessarilly. the gangs can still compete on price.
00:54:29  <Darkvater> basically about 90% goes 'underground' or 'black market'
00:54:44  <Smoovious> who's going to risk going down into the hood and getting ripped off, or even shot, by some worthless punk, when they can go down to a shoppe and get it over the counter?
00:54:47  <Darkvater> all that bullcrap about health standards, regulation, or whatever is bullshit
00:55:01  <Darkvater> the government only legalized it because then they can legally get taxes
00:55:02  <picitlama> Bjarni: then lets the goverment make order. This is why we have government.
00:55:15  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	are we legalizing prositituion here? <-- EU wanted Denmark to legalise it before they went to meetings here... and so we did. Now people want to ban it again because it resulted in women living in slave like conditions
00:55:18  <picitlama> Darkvater: hmmm, you are also from Hungary :)
00:55:29  <Smoovious> then the gov't can go after the real problem... the violence and crime associated with it...
00:55:49  <Darkvater> yes
00:55:56  <Smoovious> replace all the people locked up for simple drug crimes, with people for violent crimes, and you'll see a big improvement
00:55:59  <Darkvater> yes to picitlama
00:56:08  <KUDr> Darkvater: here they don't pay taxes at all, but government can watch them and regulate their health care and so on
00:56:12  <Darkvater> Smoovious: they won't cause they're a bunch of wankers
00:56:21  <Bjarni> <picitlama>	Bjarni: then lets the goverment make order. This is why we have government. <--- if that is your opinion, then you failed to understand what democracy is all about
00:56:22  <picitlama> KUDr: "here" = ?
00:56:24  <Darkvater> go figure with Harry Potter as president :s
00:56:25  <Bjarni> it's the voice of the people
00:56:27  <KUDr> cz
00:56:50  <picitlama> Bjarni: this is not demokracy, this is free trade, capitalism.
00:57:01  <picitlama> Darkvater: :D
00:57:08  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	go figure with Harry Potter as president :s <-- that will be hard. Rumours claims that he dies in the last book, which is before he is an adult
00:57:20  <Darkvater> oh well
00:57:28  <picitlama> Bjarni: according to current romuors, hp dont die
00:57:30  <Bjarni> since the script is a secret, it's not official
00:57:41  <Darkvater> we had elections in November so we either keep HP, or get a garden-midget
00:58:07  <picitlama> Darkvater: ?
00:58:12  <Darkvater> one of these:
00:58:25  <Darkvater> picitlama: I'm talking about the Netherlands
00:58:33  <picitlama> Darkvater: yes.
00:58:34  <Darkvater> not that piece of shit asshole Gyurcsany
00:58:48  <Bjarni> I know just what party he would be in if he was a Danish politician
00:59:15  <picitlama> Darkvater: please, curse the hungarian politicians in hungarian, don't hurt the others :)
00:59:16  <Smoovious> democracy is so the majority can stomp on the rights of the minority by taking them away
00:59:33  <Bjarni> smoking, drinking, beard, the cloth... it's all clear
00:59:41  <Bjarni> the party that gets nearly no votes :P
00:59:44  <picitlama> Darkvater: and hungarian much better for cursing
00:59:52  <Darkvater> hehe
01:00:02  <Bjarni> we do have a party like that
01:00:08  <Bjarni> and nearly nobody cares about them
01:00:20  * Darkvater commits the hopefully really LAST fix to the news crashes
01:01:11  <Bjarni> hehe, the last election, the TV channels made it a battle between two people (like a president vote) and in the end, more than half of the population voted for parties where no of those people where
01:02:27  <picitlama> hmm, balkenende really hp
01:02:45  <Darkvater> he is a joke
01:02:53  <Bjarni> picitlama: ?
01:03:37  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
01:03:39  <picitlama> Bjarni: Balkenende is the prime minister of Darkvater (and Nederlands). And really looks like Harry Potter, after the first successful coitus
01:03:55  <picitlama> Darkvater: but who is the dwarf?
01:04:13  <picitlama>
01:04:23  <Darkvater> wouter bos
01:04:33  <Darkvater> he's not small but looks like a dwarf
01:04:49  <Darkvater>
01:04:52  <Darkvater> there we go
01:04:59  <Darkvater> he can star in the next movie ^^
01:05:14  <picitlama> :)
01:05:25  <picitlama> Femke Halsema looks nice
01:05:40  <picitlama> if i were in your place, i vote for the greenleft party.
01:05:42  <Darkvater> if I were to see this guy on the street I would run away hard cause he looks like a pedophile
01:05:49  <Darkvater> greenleft :s
01:06:10  <Darkvater> oh jolly good, let's spend all YOUR money on immigrants and stupid social programs
01:06:12  <picitlama>
01:06:13  <Darkvater> no thank you
01:06:13  <picitlama> no beard
01:06:52  <GoneWacko> bah
01:06:59  <GoneWacko> Darkvater is a silly VVD-er :p
01:07:07  <Darkvater> I hate the VVD
01:07:09  * GoneWacko is non-descript
01:07:27  <GoneWacko> I float all the time, they all have things I agree with
01:07:30  <Darkvater> come to think of it I don't like any of the parties in Holland
01:07:34  <GoneWacko> Darkvater: Wilders? Fortuyn? SP?
01:07:53  <Darkvater> I voted pvda; donnu why
01:08:00  <GoneWacko> I voted PvdA too.
01:08:17  <Darkvater> I should've voted PvD ^^
01:08:30  <Darkvater> partij voor de dieren
01:08:49  <GoneWacko> Just because of their leader I bet :>>
01:08:51  <picitlama> Darkvater: i think you need a few months in Hungary.
01:09:00  <GoneWacko> anyhow I was underway to bed
01:09:02  <GoneWacko> so good night
01:09:02  <Darkvater> actually, the fun part was that 'stemwijzer' showed I should vote D66
01:09:08  <GoneWacko> Same here D:
01:09:09  <Darkvater> but they're a joke
01:09:12  <GoneWacko> Yeah
01:09:12  <Darkvater> lol
01:09:14  <picitlama> Darkvater: after this, you see Wouter on the streets, you hug him :)
01:09:27  <Darkvater> picitlama: been there in the summer, rather not go back :)
01:10:10  <Darkvater> GoneWacko: if I were to go for the looks I'd vote groenlinks
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01:11:44  <Darkvater> picitlama: politics in Hungary is horrible. I can't even speak politics with some of my friends cause then we would have a huge fight and never see each other again
01:12:52  <Bjarni> oh I once had a friend like that
01:12:53  <picitlama> Darkvater: yes. So i think, you can find values in your politicians.
01:12:55  <GoneWacko> I actually let my voting be influenced by's article on the IT-related subjects and the stances of political parties on them :p
01:12:59  <Bjarni> went to the same class as him
01:13:06  <Darkvater> GoneWacko: :O
01:13:24  <Bjarni> it ended up with him getting the reputation (even in other classes) for being a communist
01:13:46  <Darkvater> picitlama: the problem is in NL nothing too much changes no matter what you vote. So politicians don't have too much to do
01:13:54  <Darkvater> hehe
01:13:56  <nairan> same for germany
01:14:05  <GoneWacko> iirc PvdA was 'on the side of the users, not the industry' in relation to DRM and such
01:14:24  <Darkvater> until Bos turns around and decides otherwise :)
01:14:31  <picitlama> Darkvater: i think this is a very good thing
01:14:43  <GoneWacko> heh
01:15:11  <picitlama> Darkvater: some stability... oh
01:15:12  <Darkvater> yes that is a good thing, but I meant to say that it doesn't mean that politicians have any better values just because they don't fight to the death
01:15:14  <GoneWacko> <-- zzzzzz
01:15:42  <picitlama> Darkvater: but they have less negative values
01:16:19  *** Nobody_from_Nowhere [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
01:16:32  <Bjarni> here it actually matters who is in charge. The current government actually got a sane policy, which is taxes aren't allowed to increase. The opposition wants to raise it even though Denmark got the highest taxes in the world. The opposition claims that we will not have money for hospitals and so on if we don't
01:17:01  * Darkvater just love scare-tactics
01:17:10  <Darkvater> they're doing the same here but for pensions
01:17:23  <nairan> same here for health system and pensions
01:17:24  <Darkvater> work till youre 70 gg over and die
01:17:46  <nairan> in germany they raised it to 67 but maybe it will be raised again
01:17:56  <nairan> it = they
01:22:00  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8049 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp:
01:22:00  <CIA-1> -Regression (r7369): Removing certain news windows could cause a crash due to only
01:22:00  <CIA-1>  one MoveToNextItem() in DeleteVehicleNews (added in r3757). To work correctly do not
01:22:00  <CIA-1>  reset _forced_news to INVALID_NEWS when a new item is added, but leave it.
01:22:00  <CIA-1> -Codechange: ShowLastNewsMessage has been changed so that it actually works, wraps
01:22:02  <CIA-1>  around correctly (array as FIFO) and shows the previous news item if the current
01:22:04  <CIA-1>  news item is open (previously this was doubly shown).
01:22:09  <Darkvater> ok, I'm done
01:22:17  <Darkvater> gn all, do test this :)
01:22:18  <Bjarni> I actually consider the worst part of scare tactics to be the media
01:22:45  <Bjarni> some of them tend to be very political in their selection of what and how to broadcast news
01:23:46  <Bjarni> are you guys still here?
01:24:01  <picitlama> i am here
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01:24:37  <picitlama> Bjarni: this is why i dont have television and dont read daily newspapers
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01:25:42  <Blue> Ok now that i'm at the right place, Who here should i talk to about getting my patch included into OpenTTD
01:26:27  <picitlama> Blue: Darkvater, as i see
01:27:38  <Blue> thanks
01:27:40  <Bjarni> Blue: you made some sort of great patch, right?
01:28:02  <Bjarni> like full 32 bit graphic support or something, right?
01:28:08  <Blue> Industry Directory For Stations
01:28:37  <Blue> 32 Bit graphic haha I'm not that good
01:29:41  <Bjarni> well
01:29:48  <Bjarni> you got the blue stuff going
01:29:54  <Bjarni> that's 1/3 of the way there
01:31:05  <Bjarni> heh, reminds me of when I tested a patch for the mac video driver. It contained a bug so it switched colours on some computers. I got max blue on all pixels and red and green values got switched
01:31:12  <Bjarni> that looked... interesting
01:31:22  <Bjarni> the game worked though
01:31:45  <picitlama> you dont need lsd
01:34:07  *** nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:34:50  <Bjarni> ...
01:35:04  <Bjarni> don't do drugs
01:35:29  <Bjarni> oh, at one time some guy showed up here and claimed to be high
01:35:34  <Bjarni> for the first time ever
01:35:42  <Bjarni> somehow that appeared to be right
01:36:33  <Bjarni> and he told all sorts of stuff and the next day, he completely forgot what he said and then he went "oh fuck, did I say so many personal secrets"
01:36:42  <Bjarni> well, how else would we know :P
01:36:55  <Blue> lol
01:38:48  <Bjarni> he also made wicked claims like he knew ludde personally (he was offline at the time) and that ludde did drugs pretty often
01:39:18  <Bjarni> well, he got a .au domain and ludde got a .se domain.... somehow I didn't really imagine those two meeting on the streets that often
01:39:44  <picitlama> :)
01:40:53  <Bjarni> also ludde do not appear to be the guy, who goes to discos and do drugs
01:40:54  <Blue> Is this a quite time to be here?
01:41:03  <picitlama> yeah, like KUDr, who have a .net host from MA, but lives in .cz
01:41:26  <picitlama> and so KUDr rarely meets with himself on the streets :)
01:42:04  <Bjarni> picitlama: you look at the wrong line. He got a .cz domain, but is connected to in MA
01:42:49  <picitlama> i know :)
01:43:07  <picitlama> there are almost 3 am, so this is the best i can produce
01:43:12  * Sacro wanders in off the streats
01:43:15  <Sacro> *streets
01:43:27  <Bjarni> oh
01:43:37  <Bjarni> that's how you get those wicked dates
01:44:03  <Bjarni> I mean, how else will you end up with dates, who end up in mental hospitals ;)
01:45:23  <Sacro> that was only the one
01:49:28  <Bjarni> you only had one date?
01:50:24  <Sacro> no, we didnt even date
01:51:55  <picitlama> sad
01:55:01  <Sacro> wow its thursday
01:55:23  <Bjarni> you fucked her and you didn't even date?
01:55:30  <Bjarni> what happened?
01:55:31  <Sacro> indeed
01:55:46  <Bjarni> did she just show up at your door at random and went "let's fuck"?
01:55:57  <Sacro> she had just been dumped, needed somewhere to stay, and was feeling a bit... lonely
01:56:21  <Sacro> so i paused my game of openttd, and we did...
01:56:22  <Bjarni> so you screwed her over and sent her to a mental hospital?
01:56:38  <Sacro> i never sent her
01:56:55  <Bjarni> well, your actions did
01:57:02  <Sacro> she was nutty before
01:57:20  <Bjarni> no question there
01:57:28  <Bjarni> she fucked you
01:57:36  <Sacro> ^_^
01:57:40  <Bjarni> that qualifies for something of a nutcase
01:57:56  <Bjarni> but
01:57:59  <Bjarni> what about you?
01:58:08  <Bjarni> you want your kid's mom to be like that?
01:58:18  <Sacro> well...
01:58:19  <Sacro> no
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01:58:39  <Bjarni> then why did you fuck her?
01:58:45  <Sacro> er...
01:58:48  <Bjarni> you should know how that turns out
01:58:57  <Sacro> yeah...
02:00:04  <Bjarni> "yeah..." is an interesting answer to a why question
02:00:17  <Sacro> because i was in the mood for it
02:00:20  <Sacro> and so was she
02:00:24  <Sacro> so it seemed like a good idea
02:00:35  <Bjarni> scary
02:01:00  <Bjarni> Sacro in the mood to make children
02:01:17  <Sacro> noo... not for making children
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02:01:47  <Bjarni> then what did you do?
02:01:58  <Sacro> errr... went on irc
02:02:05  <Sacro> came in here in fact
02:02:19  <Bjarni> when was this?
02:02:27  * Bjarni presumes that he got logs of this event
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02:02:34  <Sacro> about a year ago
02:02:48  <Bjarni> however I don't recall anybody in here, who was taken to a mental hospital
02:02:56  <Bjarni> but if you say that's the case, then...
02:02:56  <Sacro> she didnt come in here
02:03:01  <Bjarni> ahh
02:03:26  <Bjarni> so you just took her in from the street, fucked her and then you went on IRC?
02:03:27  <Sacro> hmm
02:03:33  <Sacro> i need someone who can read dutch
02:03:37  <Sacro> no she was a friends ex
02:03:47  <Sacro> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang.
02:04:02  <Sacro> that line makes no sense
02:04:06  <Bjarni> it does
02:04:30  <Bjarni> the last part says "minimum 8 characters in length" (password?)
02:05:00  <Bjarni> I don't know what a WW is though
02:05:06  <Bjarni> but it's one of those
02:05:10  <Bjarni> and there are just one of them
02:05:18  <Sacro> hmmm...
02:05:18  <CIA-1> belugas * r8050 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
02:05:18  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Rename map member extra to m6, since its usage has been widden.
02:05:18  <CIA-1> Only doc landscape_grid.html has been updated, landscape.html will be done latter.
02:05:18  <CIA-1> -CodeChange: Replace a direct access to m6 with SetTropicZone in InitializeLandscape, as it is the only part of m6 still untouched without the brute-forced m6=0
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02:05:58  <Bjarni> if you revealed a bit about where you found this, it might be a bit easier
02:06:27  <Bjarni> it's something about starting a map and then something needs to be at least 8 characters long
02:06:39  <Bjarni> but without the context, I can't decode the rest
02:06:50  <Sacro> its...a crack for a game
02:06:58  <Bjarni> LOL
02:07:14  <Bjarni> you got a crack for a game in Dutch and then you ask me on how to use it???
02:07:17  <Sacro> 1. Installeer Lfs.exe op je pc
02:07:17  <Sacro> 2. Kopieer uit de map CRACK Lfscracker naar de directorie waar de game is geinstalleerd !
02:07:17  <Sacro> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang.
02:07:17  <Sacro> 4. In de map mod staan nog wat addon's om de game wat aan te kleden.
02:07:19  <Sacro> yes i do :)
02:07:21  <Bjarni> that's gold :D
02:07:53  <Bjarni> you do know that I don't officially speak Dutch, right?
02:08:00  <Sacro> i thought you where dutch
02:08:07  * Bjarni slaps Sacro
02:08:11  <Sacro> ><
02:08:16  <Sacro> so where are you from?
02:08:33  <Bjarni> I got a tip for you
02:08:38  <Bjarni> get a refund on your school money
02:08:55  <Bjarni> at least regarding geography
02:09:10  <Bjarni> you don't even know the name of the country across the waters from where you live
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02:09:33  <Sacro> due east?
02:09:34  <Sacro> germany
02:09:46  <Bjarni> I even think we live somewhat near the same road (at least according to E number)
02:10:09  <Sacro> yeah... the M62/A63/E62 i think
02:11:16  <Bjarni> hey, who moved Hull southwards?
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02:11:26  <Bjarni> it's not directly due east
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02:11:40  <Bjarni> more like heading 80-85
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02:12:29  <Sacro> i dunno
02:12:56  <Bjarni> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang. <--- "when the game map starts up (cracked version), write your name of at least 8 characters"
02:12:59  <Bjarni> would that make sense?
02:13:52  <Sacro> yeah... i assume i have to create a new character
02:14:10  <Sacro> dont mention this to lolman, he wont be best pleased...
02:15:43  <Bjarni> lolman is too short
02:15:49  <Bjarni> it should be at least 8 chars
02:15:50  <Bjarni> :P
02:15:52  <Sacro> heh
02:16:04  <Sacro> its only as long as Bjarni
02:16:07  <Bjarni> but what does lolman got to do with this?
02:17:08  <Bjarni> I think you aren't allowed to use spaces... or something
02:17:15  <Sacro> hmmm maybe
02:17:29  <Bjarni> but why should I not mention this to lolman?
02:17:51  <Sacro> cos he'd want me to pay for it
02:18:01  <Bjarni> what is it?
02:18:06  <Bjarni> the game he sells?
02:18:13  <Sacro> noo he doesnt sell it
02:18:20  <Sacro> he just plays it a lot, and wants to beat me in races
02:18:43  <Bjarni> you are easily beaten
02:18:48  <Bjarni> I just beat you at Dutch
02:19:26  <Bjarni> and remember that I have never been to NL, or received Dutch language education of any kind
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02:20:50  <Sacro> hehe, that works
02:20:56  <Sacro> :o
02:21:04  <Sacro> you used to have a .nl network
02:21:43  <Bjarni> no
02:22:13  <Bjarni> I used to use a .nl DNS server because my own screwed up and I could not locate
02:22:19  <Bjarni> it gave me the wrong IP
02:22:28  <Sacro> thats why i thought you where netherlandish
02:25:28  <picitlama> hm.
02:25:32  <Bjarni> that was for a few months... and more than a year ago
02:25:41  <picitlama> i also understand this dutch :)
02:26:30  <picitlama> i am not from an indoeuropean language family :)
02:26:56  <Bjarni> shh picitlama
02:27:04  <Bjarni> Sacro failed big time on this
02:27:09  <picitlama> oh, sorry.
02:27:10  <Bjarni> let's not make him feel any worse
02:27:13  <Bjarni> :P
02:27:52  <Bjarni> actually people tend to get really surprised when I reply to stuff written in Dutch
02:28:36  <Bjarni> like after I read the wikipedia article on the Dutch catenary system, I commented on why I think it's poorly operated and why they should change voltage and so on
02:28:49  <Bjarni> and the channel went "wtf, you can read this"
02:28:50  <Bjarni> :D
02:29:09  <picitlama> once i was in the company with several slavic people - croatian, slovak, ukraina, russien, bulgar, and so on. They can speak with each other, without too much trouble.
02:29:27  <picitlama> for me, dutch something like this, in simple things and in computers.
02:29:46  <picitlama> i know a little english, and once for three years i learned german.
02:29:56  <picitlama> so, i know a very little dutch also :)
02:29:57  <Bjarni> Dutch is somewhat like a mix of English, Danish and German
02:30:16  <Bjarni> knowing all 3 of those, I can estimate pretty well what those guys write
02:30:33  <picitlama> yes, i dont know Danish, this is your advantage
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02:32:00  <Bjarni> also reading technical articles is a challenge for the technical mind, not the language skills
02:32:05  <Bjarni> (more or less)
02:32:16  <Bjarni> reading a fictional book is way harder
02:33:55  <Bjarni> anyway
02:33:57  <Bjarni> goodnight
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03:16:02  <Sacro> !openttd svn
03:16:02  <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn:// ; WebSVN:
03:16:06  <Sacro> !openttd svn latest
03:16:08  <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn:// ; WebSVN:
03:16:11  <Sacro> !openttd svn version
03:16:12  <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn:// ; WebSVN:
03:16:14  <Sacro> hmm...
03:16:18  <Sacro> !openttd commit
03:16:22  <_42_> Commit by belugas :: r8050 /trunk/ (10 files) (2007-01-11 02:05:13 UTC)
03:16:24  <_42_> -Codechange: Rename map member extra to m6, since its usage has been widden.
03:16:26  <_42_> Only doc landscape_grid.html has been updated, landscape.html will be done latter.
03:16:27  <Sacro> there we go..
03:16:28  <_42_> -CodeChange: Replace a direct access to m6 with SetTropicZone in InitializeLandscape, as it is the only part of m6 still untouched without the brute-forced m6=0
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06:25:17  <CIA-1> miham * r8051 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt unfinished/greek.txt unfinished/japanese.txt):
06:25:17  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-11 07:24:01
06:25:17  <CIA-1> german - 1 deleted by moewe2 (1)
06:25:17  <CIA-1> greek - 3 fixed by Kesnar (3)
06:25:17  <CIA-1> japanese - 273 fixed by ickoonite (273)
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07:15:59  <Celestar> morning
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09:33:59  <picitlama> morning
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09:47:07  <Darkvater> morning
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09:55:09  <Darkvater> KUDr:
09:55:16  <Darkvater> my questions, issues with C++
09:55:30  <Darkvater> most probably the extern stuff is unfixable if that is how C++ works
09:56:12  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: i am not sure if it should work so
09:56:42  <KUDr_wrk> specs tell that what is not 'static' it has external linkage by default
09:56:54  <KUDr_wrk> so it was surprise for me
09:57:17  <KUDr_wrk> for normal variables you don't need compiler pass extern first
09:57:23  <KUDr_wrk> but in thic case yes
09:57:35  <KUDr_wrk> Tron would know the answer i think
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09:58:26  <Darkvater> ok, everything off, I'm back in an hour
09:58:30  <peter1138> bye dv
09:58:35  <KUDr_wrk> ok
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10:34:46  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8052 /trunk/src/ (npf.cpp pathfind.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): - Codechange: RemoveFirstTrack() and RemoveFirstTrackdir() now accept pointer to TrackBits/TrackdirBits instead of reference.
10:36:02  <CIA-1> miham * r8053 /trunk/src/lang/german.txt: [Translations] Reverted german translators work (moewe2), since it looks suspicious
10:38:50  <peter1138> suspicious
10:38:50  <peter1138> heh
10:39:09  <Nigel> my thinking too
10:41:17  <picitlama> funny words, maybe
10:41:28  <picitlama> or subliminal political messages
10:42:35  <MiHaMiX> suspicious means:
10:42:35  <MiHaMiX> -STR_ENGINE_SORT_COST                                            :Kosten
10:42:36  <MiHaMiX> +STR_ENGINE_SORT_COST                                            :
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10:42:46  <Nigel> MiHaMiX: Kosten is correct
10:42:55  <MiHaMiX> in the meanwhile the translator undid also
10:43:00  <MiHaMiX> Nigel: yeah, that was the old value
10:43:07  <MiHaMiX> Nigel: the new value became ""
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10:43:13  <MiHaMiX> Nigel: that's why I reverted it
10:43:39  <Nigel> yeah, i just looked at the diff wrong then
10:43:46  <MiHaMiX> any other question regarding 'suspicious' and r8053? :)
10:44:18  <Nigel> are criminal charges likely to be laid? ;)
10:44:23  <picitlama> igen, hogy besolyásolja ez világuralmi törekvéseidet?
10:44:28  <MiHaMiX> Nigel: no
10:44:34  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: in english, please :)
10:45:00  <picitlama> sorry, how this influence your world domination plans?
10:45:13  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: it doesn't affect my world domination plans at all since I don't have such
10:45:21  <Nigel> picitlama: they no longer cost anything
10:45:45  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: time to have one.
10:45:55  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: no, time to go back working :)
10:45:57  <MiHaMiX> bbl :)
10:46:31  <picitlama> yes
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10:58:57  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8054 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: Use a template function instead of a macro for evaluating NewGRF var adjusts
11:05:07  <CIA-1> celestar * r8055 /trunk/src/ (19 files):
11:05:07  <CIA-1> -Codechange: Replace the different max, dmax, maxu whatever macros by a simple
11:05:07  <CIA-1> template function max(), that requires two arguments of the same type. While I'm
11:05:07  <CIA-1> at it change a variable called "max" to "maxval" in a function that calls max().
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11:44:06  <SpComb> Logs:
11:44:06  <Digitalfox> !logs
12:03:33  * Brianetta sprays spittle all over that OTTD Unlimited thread
12:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a feeling my compiles take forever...
12:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> real    2m17.629s
12:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> user    1m46.087s
12:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> sys     0m7.796s
12:06:02  <stillunknown> Eddi: most people except a few say it's around 20% slower
12:06:15  <stillunknown> there have been been a few that said it doubled or more
12:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i can't say anything about that, i never timed before
12:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it took forever before also
12:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's directly comparable, but this is what miniin takes:
12:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> real    2m15.928s
12:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> user    1m44.539s
12:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> sys     0m10.089s
12:10:34  <stillunknown> Celestar: i had a patch to replace max, min and abs with templates, so if your interested i can probably fix all the conflicts
12:10:56  <Celestar> stillunknown: go ahead :)
12:11:04  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: 71 seconds here
12:11:32  <stillunknown> it'll take a while, there are shitloads of max calls out there
12:11:44  <stillunknown> *a lot of
12:11:46  <Celestar> sorry :(
12:11:55  <Celestar> if there are shitloads of max calls
12:12:00  <Celestar> then we have a fuckton of min calls
12:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> my processor is a Athlon XP 3000+
12:12:14  <stillunknown> sorry for the wording, i corrected that
12:12:31  <stillunknown> just saying i have a few conflicts to fix :-)
12:12:41  <peter1138> heh
12:12:44  <peter1138> ttdpatch users are funny
12:12:49  <peter1138> especially some devs ;p
12:12:55  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: Athlon XP 3500+ here
12:12:58  <Celestar> peter1138: why so?
12:12:59  <peter1138> they just can't understand the concept of openttd's newgrf loading system
12:13:02  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: er no
12:13:08  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: Athlon 64 3500+
12:13:47  <peter1138> quite a few people don't realise that grfs are automatically chosen when you load a game
12:13:50  <stillunknown> Celestar: didn't look at your change yet, but are you implicitly determining the datatype?
12:14:36  <Celestar> stillunknown: yes.
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12:14:46  <Celestar> peter1138: in TTPD as well?
12:18:04  <peter1138> i don't know, i've never used it much
12:18:19  <peter1138> i know our method is different though :)
12:18:39  <peter1138> gah, bzipping ~ 3 GB takes ages
12:19:24  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: bzip2 tooks less, IIRC
12:19:32  <peter1138> ...
12:19:37  <peter1138> tooks?
12:19:40  <MiHaMiX> takes
12:19:44  <Brianetta> MiHaMiX: Did you -9 it?
12:19:46  <peter1138> and yes, of course i'm using bzip2
12:19:57  <peter1138> who ever uses bzip?
12:20:06  <Brianetta> I didn't realise there was a bzip that wasn't bzip2
12:20:14  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: sorry, I've read gzip for the first time
12:20:15  <peter1138> bzip2, v 1.0.3, heh
12:20:23  <peter1138> ah
12:20:24  <peter1138> well sorry
12:20:29  <peter1138> but gzip is far faster than bzip2
12:20:36  <peter1138> it doesn't compress as well of course
12:20:38  <Brianetta> Did you -9 it?
12:20:41  <peter1138> no
12:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> bzip should me much slower than gzip
12:20:48  <peter1138> default
12:20:51  <Brianetta> bzip2 has better compression
12:20:57  <MiHaMiX> Brianetta: no, but I used to
12:20:59  <Brianetta> much better
12:21:12  <Brianetta> than gzip
12:21:16  <MiHaMiX> once I recall I compressed 200M of system log (from an attack) to 97kb :)
12:21:23  <Brianetta> gzip is used because the tgz is a cross-platform standard
12:21:50  <Brianetta> Gentoo uses .tbz2 files as packages - an extension you only see there
12:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> bzip also needs lots of memory
12:22:02  <peter1138> .tar.bz2 is good enough for me
12:22:10  <Brianetta> peter1138: and is correct
12:22:13  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: last time I compressed 1G took ~1-2 minutes
12:22:14  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: 8MB is a lot?
12:22:29  <Brianetta> peter1138: It is for embedded systems (:
12:22:31  <peter1138> true :)
12:22:44  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: *shrug* it's still slower than gzip
12:22:55  <peter1138> i'm doing this on a 1GHz machine, so...
12:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: it probably depends on the block size
12:24:14  <peter1138> p'rap, -9 is 900KB
12:24:15  <MiHaMiX>    1367823.980:1,  0.000 bits/byte, 100.00% saved, 1073741824 in, 785 out.
12:24:20  <MiHaMiX> real    0m34.500s
12:24:20  <MiHaMiX> user    0m32.959s
12:24:20  <MiHaMiX> sys     0m2.476s
12:24:38  <MiHaMiX> compressing 1G of zero :)
12:24:45  <peter1138> useful
12:25:02  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: yeah, some virus scanners identify the compressed file as mailbomb :D
12:25:26  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: btw, it really is useful
12:26:02  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: we used the zero-files to fill up the windows XP partitions completely before creating compressed partition image
12:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> a dd command uses much less than 785 byte
12:26:38  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: and since windows lacks /dev/zero, we transferred the compressed zerofiles and unpacked on windows
12:27:15  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, but I couldn't write to the windows partition under linux
12:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> mingw?
12:27:37  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: the ntfs-3g driver did not exist that time
12:27:53  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: "lol"
12:28:03  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: the image OSes used to be as minimalistic as possible
12:29:16  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: it worked like charm, we were able to compress an 40GB WinXP partition (used space: 4GB) to ~1.8GB
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12:32:25  <CIA-1> celestar * r8056 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove swap_byte, swap_byte, and siblings (some were not used anyway) and replace them by our SwapT implementation
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12:35:02  <Brianetta> Sergej_S - what an enigma
12:35:12  <peter1138> indeed
12:35:25  <Brianetta> It's like part of some alien world intruding into our own
12:37:02  <Darkvater> ttdp stores newgrf's in the savegame but if you do'nt specify them in your newgrfw.cfg they are not loaded
12:37:09  <Darkvater> this meaning that I'm back :)
12:38:09  <blathijs> stillunknown: It seems the boost library has some decent pool implementations
12:38:15  <CIA-1> celestar * r8057 /trunk/src/macros.h: -Codechange: Declare the "new" max template as static line.
12:39:04  <Darkvater> blathijs: no boost please
12:39:14  <blathijs> Darkvater: bad experience?
12:39:22  <Darkvater> blathijs: it takes forever to compile on g++
12:39:37  <Darkvater> KUDr has experienced 3-5 minutes for a single template file
12:39:55  <blathijs> Darkvater: We would only need the pool part, but I think their implementation is too bloated anyway
12:40:10  <blathijs> The interface seems nice, but we don't need all of it
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12:47:46  <CIA-1> celestar * r8058 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: Replaced an occurence of (uint32)-1 by UINT_MAX
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13:02:17  <Digitalfox> Please give opnions :)
13:02:27  *** KUDr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:03:19  <Celestar> Digitalfox: custombridgeheads need a "?" .. it depends on whether we can overcome problems
13:03:31  <Digitalfox> ok
13:03:53  <Celestar> Digitalfox: it is possible that 0.6 has some balacing
13:04:19  <Brianetta> Celestar: What problems are there, and how does Patch overcome them?
13:04:40  <Brianetta> Is newindustries planned for later?
13:04:58  <Celestar> Brianetta: the problem being that the bridge is a wormhole and it crashes on reversing. The PAtch doesn't have the problem because it doesn't have the flexible bridges.
13:05:02  <Brianetta> Digitalfox: I believe newsignals might make it (:
13:05:16  <Celestar> Brianetta: ask the newgrf people like Maedhros Belugas and peter1138
13:05:24  <Brianetta> Celestar: Oh - it's broken by the magicness thing?
13:05:38  <Celestar> Brianetta: it's not really broken, but it makes it waaaay more difficult that it needs be
13:05:50  <Celestar> Brianetta: so the question is whether or not to wait for newmap
13:05:57  <Brianetta> Would certainly make things easier
13:06:11  <Celestar> with newmaps, things would be very simple
13:06:22  <Brianetta> It's a shame you can't link additional tiles to given tiles...
13:06:55  <Digitalfox> Brianetta: Yeah for now let's keep roadmap just with things that are already under work or almost under work
13:07:03  <Brianetta> of course, you'd have to give each one a pointer to adjoining tiles
13:07:09  <Brianetta> a totally incompatible architecture
13:07:40  <Digitalfox> Brianetta: I wan't roadmap to be a real and true source of information :)
13:07:50  <Brianetta> Digitalfox: It'll be very conservative then
13:07:52  <Digitalfox> *want
13:08:05  <Brianetta> and unlikely to advance beyond the next stable release
13:08:25  <Brianetta> Unlike a real roadmap, it'll just be what's visible through the windscreen
13:08:31  <Brianetta> to bend an analogy to near breaking point
13:08:41  <Celestar> hehe
13:09:43  * Celestar shakes his fist at svn
13:10:12  <Brianetta> svn is good, whilst still retaining the ability to suck *and* blow at the same time, on occasion.
13:10:17  <Digitalfox> Brianetta: I didn't get it since it didn't make any sence to me.. :\ But i mean is that since theres no real plans from openttd team to what really do for 0.6, we should wait until things are planned..
13:10:28  <Celestar> Brianetta: lol yeah
13:10:40  <Digitalfox> Not adding wishes or things you and i would like
13:10:48  <Brianetta> Digitalfox: I think a roadmap implies a plan, and I doubt there's a plan
13:11:05  <Digitalfox> Brianetta: Exactly
13:11:10  <Celestar> Brianetta: we're seriously considering making one :P
13:11:26  <Brianetta> Celestar: That's an improvement.  Will there be a design doc at any point?
13:13:09  *** Digitalfox is now known as Digitalfox_Away
13:13:21  <Celestar> Brianetta: possibly
13:14:31  <roboboy> with the new map array will it be possible to make morails work more like he real thing?
13:14:50  <Celestar> yes possibly
13:15:09  <roboboy> cool that will make me like monoail more
13:15:16  <blathijs> morails? monail?
13:15:54  * roboboy avoids monorails now since i dont like the fact they have to take a whole tile up
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13:16:11  <Brianetta> roboboy: Sae goes for trains
13:16:17  <Brianetta> They take a whole tile up
13:16:34  <Brianetta> when double track IRL occupies about 10% more land than single
13:16:46  <CIA-1> celestar * r8059 / (107 files in 12 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with r7788:8032 from trunk
13:16:48  <roboboy> yeah but monorail IRL can be inbetween roads
13:16:58  <Brianetta> Only if elevated
13:17:10  <Brianetta> Real monorail issue is that TT's monorails aren't elevated
13:17:15  <Brianetta> or elevable
13:17:15  <roboboy> yeah
13:17:29  <Digitalfox_Away> And does the start of works in a new map array going to happen soon or other things first?
13:17:32  <Celestar> Monorails Schonorails
13:17:35  <roboboy> if it was elevable then id use it more
13:17:43  <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: first, the saveload systems needs overhaul
13:17:48  <Brianetta> I just hope that the new map will allow rail lines to be paired on a single tile
13:18:01  <Brianetta> with a variety of switch types to get them back to single tile mode (:
13:18:18  <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: Saveload it needs?? :\ I thought it worked fine :|
13:19:20  <Brianetta>
13:19:20  <Brianetta> woo
13:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought the new map plans were exactly for variable bridges (aka elevated rails)
13:19:27  <Brianetta> finally, a shot with evidence of play
13:19:50  <Darkvater> still no train :)
13:19:55  <Brianetta> we live in hope
13:20:15  <Brianetta> So often, the entire shot is blocked with "Subsidy offered: Blah,..."
13:20:17  <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: it'S very unflexible. we need a format where we can make changes faster
13:20:27  <Brianetta> so I'll be altering the message settings next game
13:20:29  <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: ah ok :)
13:20:41  <Brianetta> Just disasters, I think
13:20:49  <Brianetta> perhaps "Citizens Celebrate"
13:20:54  <Brianetta> but no more than that
13:21:31  <Brianetta> Incidentally, that shot is as small as I could make the client before multiplayer messages made it crash
13:21:45  <Celestar> Rubidium: ok renaming was VERY simple :)
13:21:48  <Brianetta> so I assumed it was the smallest safe server resolution
13:22:00  <Brianetta> the smaller, the less CPU (:
13:22:08  <Maedhros> Brianetta: why does it refresh every 7 and a half minutes? does that have any particular significance?
13:22:24  <Celestar> Rubidium: took 5 seconds \o/
13:22:28  <Brianetta> Maedhros: It fit between the 5 and 10 of two other sheduled tasks in autopilot
13:22:36  <Brianetta> but no, no significance whatsoever
13:23:06  <Brianetta> I should make all the timers into prime numbers
13:23:16  <Brianetta> then they'd rarely run together
13:23:32  <Maedhros> heh, nice :)
13:24:05  <stillunknown> anyone here familiar with operator overloading in c++?
13:24:09  <Brianetta> Technically, they don't actually run at the same time
13:24:14  <Brianetta> It's event based, and single tasking
13:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: you'd probably get further with a _real_ question
13:25:27  <Darkvater>
13:25:37  <Darkvater> is THAT a Red Alert bomber?
13:26:01  <stillunknown> when overloading an operator like [], the argument to the overload function is the bar in foo[bar], but were does it get the foo part from?
13:26:11  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Yes
13:26:18  <Darkvater> he it is :O
13:26:18  <Brianetta> See peter1138's reply
13:27:06  <Darkvater> doesn't that guy kinda realize that the screenshots LOOK LIKE CRAP?
13:27:32  <Celestar> wtf is that?
13:27:33  <Darkvater> different water, non-aligned sprites
13:27:37  <Darkvater> jezus
13:27:42  <roboboy> where
13:27:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: foo[bar] translates to foo.operator[](bar)
13:27:54  <hylje> KIROV REPORTING
13:27:58  <Darkvater> and that winxp close button
13:28:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> so treat it like foo.method(bar)
13:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> (note that i am a theoretics guy, so names may vary from reality, only concepts matter)
13:30:03  <roboboy> Brianetta i like the live webcam im looking at ocean now
13:30:20  <Brianetta> roboboy: Yeah, it can be boring
13:30:59  <roboboy> i had three different ones open all boring
13:31:11  <roboboy> the one on the server page is just as bronig
13:31:28  <roboboy> i acidently reopened the ser page in a new tab
13:32:16  * roboboy waits for it to update
13:32:35  <roboboy> i can see a depot and tracks but no train
13:33:33  <roboboy> do they update all at once?
13:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd be better if it had a hook into the vehicle/station/town/etc. lists
13:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> and choose a random position from there
13:34:08  <roboboy> yeah
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13:38:27  <roboboy> still nothing
13:38:41  <Brianetta> If I say anything that turns out to be factually incorrect on that NFO vs XML shouting match, do feel free to correct me. (:
13:39:28  <roboboy> why cant people just live with nfo
13:39:34  <Celestar> Brianetta: Eddi|zuHause2: Digitalfox_Away:
13:39:37  <Brianetta> because it's fugly
13:39:40  <Celestar> RFC
13:39:47  * Brianetta Rs FC
13:39:49  <roboboy> i geuse
13:40:21  <peter1138> hmm, could we do v = vehicle[index] instead of v = GetVehicle(index)? heh
13:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's gonna take a while to read ;)
13:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: yeah, with overloaded operators that should be possible
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13:41:01  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, you can start at page 4
13:41:11  <Celestar> Part II
13:41:15  <roboboy> Brianetta it isnt shwing animation, is it supposed to?
13:41:16  <Brianetta> 3.1.2 appears to have a superfluous A
13:41:30  <CIA-1> celestar * r8060 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (319 files in 13 dirs): [cbh] - Renamed all .c files to .cpp to get the cpp conversion merged
13:41:31  <Brianetta> roboboy: No, it's a screenshot, taken every 7 minutes 30
13:41:36  <roboboy> ok
13:41:55  <roboboy> a random one every time its loaded
13:42:08  <Brianetta> Celestar: needs proof-reading (:
13:42:11  <Brianetta> 1920th
13:42:29  <roboboy> no change yet
13:42:32  <Celestar> Brianetta: yes it does
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13:44:19  <Darkvater> peter1138: we go back to simple array-assignments, eh? ;)
13:45:03  <Darkvater> with the powah of c++ ^^
13:45:05  <roboboy> it just updated o a news message
13:45:27  <roboboy> is it supposed to autoupdate? or does the user have to refresh
13:45:30  <Darkvater> I wonder though if it's worth it, or even possible
13:45:41  <Darkvater> peter1138: since vehicle[] isnot an array but a pool
13:46:21  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes
13:46:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: [] is just an overloaded operator
13:46:38  <Celestar> just like tile + diagdirection :)
13:46:49  <Brianetta> roboboy: You will need to refresh it every seven and a half minutes
13:46:57  <roboboy> ok
13:47:07  <roboboy> its stuck on a news mwssage
13:47:20  <Darkvater> Celestar: ah ic
13:47:23  <Brianetta> There was a news message in front of the camera when the snap was taken
13:47:57  <blathijs> 14:46 <@Celestar> just like tile + diagdirection :) <-- huh?
13:48:01  <CIA-1> bjarni * r8061 /trunk/src/macros.h:
13:48:01  <CIA-1> -Fix r8055: obj-c can't handle templates
13:48:01  <CIA-1>  We will need to figure out a nicer solution for this, but now OSX compiles again
13:48:03  <Celestar> blathijs: yes that would work
13:48:28  * Celestar slaps Bjarni
13:48:30  <peter1138> Darkvater: i'm not saying it's a good idea :)
13:48:36  <Celestar> "DOESN'T"
13:48:37  <blathijs> Celestar: What do you mean by it?
13:48:39  <Celestar> not "DON'T"
13:48:41  <peter1138> in fact it's not
13:49:17  <roboboy> gnight
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13:50:16  <Brianetta> I love the interacting sine waves
13:50:52  <Darkvater> peter1138: well if [] is operated in that it handles all that GetVehicle() does now, it might be useful...but perhaps confusing
13:51:15  <Celestar> Brianetta: good.
13:51:15  <peter1138> Darkvater: Vehicle *v = vehicle[x];
13:51:23  <peter1138> Darkvater: v++;
13:51:44  <Celestar> peter1138: that would of course work :P
13:51:49  <Darkvater> he
13:51:59  <peter1138> yeah, overload the ++...
13:52:01  <peter1138> but..
13:52:06  <peter1138> pointless stuff we shouldn't do
13:52:58  <blathijs> I think we should try not to overload operators as much as possible
13:53:51  <Darkvater> let's over load int++ so it does --
13:54:08  <blathijs> Would we ever need a pool that allocates n bytes instead of sizeof(something) bytes?
13:54:09  <Brianetta> Celestar: I don't think that short aircraft trips miss a penalty
13:54:11  <robobed> the webcam is the same everywhere now
13:54:19  <Brianetta> taxi time is constant
13:54:43  <Brianetta> and if busy, the plane can spend most of its time in holding
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13:54:59  <Brianetta> these have a greater proportional effect on short-haul flights
13:55:24  <Darkvater> FUXCK
13:55:27  <Darkvater> my screen went black
13:55:33  <Darkvater> am I even typing in the right window?
13:55:38  <Darkvater> stupid laptapos :s
13:55:39  <Celestar> ROFL
13:55:50  <Brianetta> Celestar: Are you proposing a reliability half-life? (:
13:55:58  <Celestar> Brianetta: something like that yes
13:56:06  <Celestar> Brianetta: something a bit better than what we have now
13:56:17  <Brianetta> That's good, too
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13:56:56  <Brianetta> I think train cost balancing needs to factor in a cost per tile-with-track
13:57:05  <Brianetta> rather than just penalising faster vehicles
13:57:10  <Celestar> yes.
13:57:19  <Celestar> I have a patch that gives you some cost for each tile with a trackbit
13:57:25  <Celestar> and extra if you have switches and signals
13:57:32  <Brianetta> with that cost doubled (or more) for electrified
13:57:43  <Brianetta> ooh, yes, we need signal costs
13:57:46  <Celestar> but faster trains need to have higher op costs
13:57:51  <Brianetta> then people pay more for a high capacity line
13:58:07  <Celestar> so that people don't send around coal with 600km/h
13:58:12  <Brianetta> Trains' op costs should be like the trains they model
13:58:21  <Brianetta> and coal wagons can be speed limited
13:58:27  <Celestar> Brianetta: so usage independent maintenance speed limits?
13:58:28  <Brianetta> in fact, with most newgrfs, are
13:58:57  <Brianetta> I didn't understand that
13:59:38  <Celestar> Brianetta: the thing is by putting costs to the train, tracks that are used more are "taxed" more heavilty
13:59:47  <Celestar> but no penalty for signals and switches
13:59:52  <Brianetta> No
13:59:56  <Brianetta> just speed limits to train
14:00:13  <Brianetta> but yes, I see where you're coming from
14:00:21  <Celestar> well running costs SHOULD be higher (more energy usage)
14:00:39  <Brianetta> perhaps some of the cost should be put onto the train
14:00:43  <Celestar> but ok I'll add track maintenance :)
14:00:57  <Brianetta> and the rest made for nsignals, nswitches, nbridges, ntunnels
14:01:06  <Brianetta> all of which require more maintenance than straight track
14:01:12  <Celestar> yes
14:01:16  <Celestar> exactly
14:01:33  <Brianetta> perhaps track segments per tile
14:01:42  <Brianetta> with a special case excluding parallel diagonals
14:01:47  <Celestar> yes
14:01:55  <Celestar> as I said I have such a diff and it is easy to implement
14:02:00  * Brianetta nods
14:02:24  <Brianetta> and people who signal every tile pay ten as much for signalling as me (:
14:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think passengers should be divided into two classes
14:02:54  <Darkvater> he, it was the right iwndow :)
14:02:54  <Brianetta> could even have random signalling failures if bank balance drops <0
14:03:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> local and express
14:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> with different models to price them
14:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> local traffic should mostly be based on distance, while express traffic should highly depend on speed
14:04:08  <Brianetta> Being able to set your fare is good
14:05:06  <Brianetta> 13:58 <sarah_pilot> edk256: God I love this game.
14:05:10  <Brianetta> Happy customer (:
14:05:23  <Darkvater> hehe
14:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem with customizable prices and stuff is that it usually lacks explanation how this affects everything
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14:10:27  <Brianetta> Celestar: That's good.  Only the track costings need adding.  Don't forget catenary or other fixed power supply (maglev, perhaps) need to be balanced too.
14:10:39  <Brianetta> Nobody leaves catenary up if there are no electric trains.
14:10:47  <peter1138> newgrf has the capability to change railtype costs
14:10:51  <peter1138> we just don't support it
14:11:01  <Celestar> Brianetta: good
14:11:12  <Celestar> Brianetta: maglevs have totally different cost structure
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14:11:20  <Brianetta> THat's helpful
14:11:31  <Brianetta> peter1138: Yeah, this is a kind of general look at default stuff
14:13:11  <Darkvater>
14:13:38  <Darkvater> he, mr 'I'm going to code a new windowing/widget system in C++ but gave up after 2 days' whining about spaghetti code
14:14:02  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:17:48  <Celestar> Brianetta: ok added
14:17:51  <Celestar> but not in pdf yet
14:20:00  <peter1138> hmm
14:25:28  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8062 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: change newgrf varaction2 value from signed to unsigned
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14:28:07  <Brianetta> Celestar: You have a to that should be too in 8.1.1
14:28:19  <Celestar> er what?
14:28:30  <Brianetta> s/to/too/ in 8.1.1
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14:28:44  <Brianetta> way to low
14:29:42  <Brianetta> there's a 1920th in the cars line in 3.1.3
14:29:51  <Brianetta> which harms comprehension
14:31:26  <peter1138> ?
14:31:50  <Brianetta> peter1138: Celestar's document
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14:34:54  <Brianetta> I'm no NFO fan, and here I am, defending it.
14:35:10  <Brianetta> I think it's fugly as hell, but I do at least grok it.
14:35:22  <Brianetta> Even if I don't understand it.
14:36:18  <Darkvater> :)
14:40:20  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8063 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: When evaluating newgrf varaction2s the 'last value' should start off at 0, and the result of the operation is remembered.
14:41:59  <hylje> trunk is .cpp?
14:41:59  <Brianetta> A webcam-shot on my server shows me that OpenTTD doesn't take screen size into account when wrapping chat lines
14:42:09  <hylje> seems so
14:42:17  <Brianetta> If your game screen width is less than the chat box width, you can't see text
14:42:24  <peter1138> hmm
14:42:31  <Darkvater> and it can also crash your client
14:42:33  <hylje> chat is still kinda hacky
14:42:35  <peter1138> i think the chat box width should match the screen width
14:42:45  <peter1138> maybe with a margin
14:42:48  <peter1138> and a max
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14:43:11  <Darkvater> :(
14:43:12  <Brianetta> Darkvater: It never crashed for me until I went lower than 410 wide by 199 high
14:43:24  <Darkvater> you just have to resize the window continually a few times
14:43:26  <Brianetta> which is why I chose those odd numbers
14:43:41  <Darkvater> ah until; yeah
14:44:00  <Darkvater> it's so ugly, I had a go with it up gave up cause I didn't have an idea of how to do it
14:44:03  <Brianetta> I wanted the res as small as possible to reduce server load
14:44:04  <hylje> interesting magic numbers
14:44:17  <Brianetta> #openttdcoop played with 1x1
14:44:21  <Brianetta> which works, for ages
14:44:32  <Darkvater> also if you have your mouse in the chat area somewhere and the first message shows up, you get your mouse-cursor cloned ;p
14:44:45  <Brianetta> but I don't trust x<410 or y<199
14:44:57  <hylje> interesting
14:45:01  <hylje> battery was at 60%
14:45:13  <hylje> then i turned the proc up to 1.7GHz and battery died.
14:45:49  <Brianetta> "The engines cannae take it, Cap'n
14:45:50  <Brianetta> "
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14:46:48  <Brianetta>
14:46:57  <Brianetta> See how my server saves a game when a player joins
14:47:16  <Brianetta> anti-vandalism measure
14:47:20  <Brianetta> highly effective
14:47:29  <Brianetta> the number is the unix date in hex
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14:51:34  <hylje> hex is great for condensing numbar
14:51:35  <hylje> s
14:51:43  <Brianetta> yeah
14:53:07  <Brianetta> Got a train on the webcam!
14:53:13  <hylje> :o
14:53:18  <hylje> incredible
14:53:21  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8064 /branches/newhouses/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
14:53:21  <CIA-1> [NewHouses] -Codechange: Save a list of the house ids being used, and which grf
14:53:21  <CIA-1> file they correspond to. This allows rearranging the order of newhouse grfs in
14:53:21  <CIA-1> the newgrf details window without the game crashing. It also means that grfs
14:53:21  <CIA-1> can be removed, at which point the houses defined by that grf revert to the
14:53:22  <CIA-1> original house type defined as their substitute.
14:53:31  <hylje> zomg, newhouses!
14:54:37  <hylje> does the webcam change the viewport
14:54:39  <Maedhros> oh yeah, and as an added bonus, games made with this branch before this commit won't load any more ;)
14:54:55  <hylje> somewhat expected
14:55:02  <hylje> branches are for fucking things up
14:55:40  <Darkvater> Celestar: I approve of the transfer change
14:55:49  <Darkvater> Celestar: but perhaps have source, source_tile
14:55:59  <Darkvater> after each other instead of source,dest,source_tile
14:56:13  <Darkvater> for DeliverGoods
14:56:17  <hylje> you changed the behaviour of transfer?
14:56:41  <Celestar> where?
14:56:52  <Darkvater> Celestar: can we also perhaps structify source? eg make itinto {StationID source; TileIndex source_tile'}
14:57:09  <Darkvater> Then you can just do ge->enroute_from = v->source
14:57:18  <Darkvater> and it copies both StationID and TileIndex
14:57:24  <Darkvater> I think that's much nicer
14:57:28  <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) it's just temporary, 2) it means messing with saveload more
14:57:45  <Darkvater> 1) still I'd prefere
14:57:53  <Darkvater> 2) it wouldn't mess with saveload
14:58:06  <Celestar> what place exactly are you talking about?
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14:58:14  <Darkvater> you just save v->cargo_source.station and v->cargo_source.tile
14:58:19  <Darkvater> in your diff
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15:00:48  <Celestar> Darkvater: but it does mean messing with a lot of code
15:01:01  <Celestar> cargo_source is used here and there and somewhere else as well
15:01:28  <Darkvater> you sure?
15:01:42  <Darkvater> saveload code would be just
15:01:44  <Darkvater> instead of
15:01:46  <Darkvater>  SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, cargo_source,         SLE_UINT16,                  7, SL_MAX_VERSION),
15:01:51  <Darkvater>  SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, cargo_source.station,         SLE_UINT16,                  7, SL_MAX_VERSION),
15:02:10  <Celestar> fischer@galadriel:[/nfs/home/fischer/openttd/trunk]> grep cargo_source src/*.cpp | wc -l
15:02:13  <Celestar> 23
15:02:15  <Celestar> hm
15:02:20  <Celestar> could be worse
15:02:50  <Darkvater> we could ask what people think of course
15:03:06  <Darkvater> but this is imho nicer as these two really belong together and we need to show that
15:03:56  <Brianetta> 15:03 <sarah_pilot> Nilo has left the game (desync error)
15:04:00  <Celestar> well, but it is a more fundamental change
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15:16:30  <peter1138> hehehe, this thread keeps on amusing :)
15:17:20  <Sacro> which thread?
15:17:47  <peter1138> ottd unlimited
15:18:21  * Brianetta posts to it.
15:18:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: Stop me I talk crap, please
15:18:35  <peter1138> you haven't yet
15:18:45  <peter1138> he seems to be thinking that nfo is actually executed
15:18:55  <Brianetta> Yeah
15:19:13  <Brianetta> He can't grasp that there's a grey area between the metal and a fully protected sandbox
15:19:33  <Brianetta> Perhaps if he'd read the spec
15:19:40  <Brianetta> or, um, done any research
15:19:53  <peter1138> and yes, performance is very important
15:20:16  <Brianetta> Thing is
15:20:22  <peter1138> for vehicles, all this stuff is evaluated every time a vehicle moves
15:20:32  <Brianetta> If KUDr used LUA for AI coding, might it also be used for other tasks?
15:20:38  <peter1138> possible
15:20:53  <Brianetta> I cna't see NFO being unseated, thogh
15:20:57  <peter1138> no
15:21:04  <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: yes, but rather something like squirrel
15:21:12  <Celestar> Brianetta: nice work on da map
15:21:13  <KUDr_wrk> instead of LUA
15:21:18  <Brianetta> Celestar: Ta
15:21:23  <Darkvater> nobody is going to rewrite the whole thing and drop support for all existing grf's
15:21:33  <Brianetta> I make an empty TGP, then place all towns and key industries
15:21:40  <Brianetta> then random industries for fun
15:21:47  <Brianetta> and obviously the roads, etc
15:21:50  <Brianetta> and harbours
15:21:55  <Brianetta> I think towns need good harbours
15:22:02  <Celestar> Brianetta: are you always doing 1kx256?
15:22:14  <Brianetta> Celestar: Yes, for the last 2 yers
15:22:19  <Celestar> ok
15:22:32  <Brianetta> It has the same footprint in RAM as 512²
15:22:39  <Brianetta> but you can do really long straight routes
15:22:59  <Celestar> yeah
15:23:11  <Celestar> I was just wondering about 1kx512 or something :P
15:23:13  <Brianetta> I toyed with 2048x128 but it's shite, frankly
15:23:23  <Brianetta> Celestar: Server load stops me
15:23:31  <Celestar> Brianetta: pity :(
15:23:35  <Brianetta> I have the #openttdcoop servers on there, too
15:23:40  <Celestar> Brianetta: what hardware?
15:23:49  <Brianetta> and when Yahoo! indexes the server, http kills performance
15:23:51  <Darkvater> Celestar: << committable
15:23:54  <Brianetta> P4 1800
15:23:56  <Celestar> Darkvater: good
15:24:00  <Brianetta> wit 512
15:24:00  <Celestar> Darkvater: doing so
15:24:21  <Brianetta> And there was this guy in Hungary
15:24:30  <Brianetta> he was mirroring the #openttdcoop wiki
15:24:30  <Darkvater> the transfer thing...donnu yet, but fix that if in any case and DeliverGoods parameter order
15:24:33  <Brianetta> without throttling
15:24:39  <Brianetta> I banned three IPs
15:24:50  <Brianetta> after he came on with a fourth, I blocked his ISP
15:24:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: if is already fixed.
15:25:09  <Brianetta> but when he was sucking my web sites
15:25:15  <Celestar> Brianetta: are you hosting the wiki?
15:25:15  <Brianetta> he was puching th eload average to 3
15:25:23  <Brianetta> yes
15:25:27  <Brianetta> all #openttdcoop stuff
15:25:36  <Celestar> ah ok
15:25:41  <Celestar> need a mirror or something?
15:25:43  <Brianetta> and a bunch of other sites
15:26:16  <Brianetta> Mirror could be difficult
15:26:30  <Brianetta> since Osai and others are working on talking to the openttd servers
15:26:38  <Brianetta> for some dynamic content
15:26:42  <Brianetta> something I'm pioneering
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15:26:48  <hylje> difficult, not impossible
15:27:01  <hylje> distributed computing could do some cool stuff there
15:27:03  <Brianetta> Not much is impossible
15:27:08  <Darkvater> I think I'm in ineed of some food
15:27:15  <Chrill> I need to ask you guys a question.. I dunno why, but my RC3 fails to load my heightmaps
15:27:19  <Brianetta> I'm in need of a strong coffee
15:27:22  <Celestar> Darkvater: do we have a flyspray id for that station list storage?
15:28:09  <peter1138> 15:18 <@Darkvater> nobody is going to rewrite the whole thing and drop support  for all existing grf's
15:28:16  <peter1138> tron might've done at some point ;)
15:29:38  <Chrill> Why can't OpenTTD load heightmaps?
15:30:43  <CIA-1> celestar * r8065 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Feature: The station list does now remember the sort settings
15:30:47  <Celestar> Chrill: unless you give us some error message, it is a bit unhelpful
15:31:12  <glx> or the file that fails to load
15:31:24  <Brianetta> Haukinger: "From an architects perspective, if performance is your main problem in this 100 KLOC mess of spaghetti code, you have a *real* problem here"
15:31:35  <Chrill> Celestar: Well, there IS no error message, the game just crashes
15:32:22  <Chrill> No matter what heightmap or general pic I try to load, it just shuts the game down, no error messages or anything
15:32:25  <Celestar> Chrill: ok I have no idea about Heightmaps, please post a bug report with the heightmap you are trying to load
15:32:29  <Celestar> Brianetta: ?
15:32:37  <Celestar> Brianetta: where's that from?
15:32:47  <Brianetta> OTTD Unlimited thread
15:32:47  <Chrill> Where/How do I post bugreports then?
15:32:55  <Celestar> Chrill:
15:34:17  <Chrill> All I can say is what's said here already, so if no-one else fails with heightmaps, it's really strange, since it occured in both RC2 and RC3
15:38:04  <Chrill> There's a bug report (probably totally failed one) there now
15:38:59  <glx> Chrill: we need the heightmap to test
15:39:03  <Chrill> oh, ok
15:39:04  <Chrill> hang on
15:39:18  <Brianetta> Is there still a limit to custom names?
15:39:23  <Chrill> Need to write new bug report, or can I edit the old one?
15:39:37  <glx> you can post a reply in it
15:39:45  <Chrill> ok
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15:40:49  <Chrill> there
15:41:25  <Celestar> will be investigated
15:42:00  <glx> I'm getting the file now :)
15:42:56  <glx> though 640*480 is not good for heightmap
15:43:09  <Chrill> Well, the thing is I picked a file that fails now but worked before
15:43:23  <glx> anyway I get an assert :)
15:43:31  <Chrill> assert??
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15:45:06  <Celestar> Brianetta: how will the next map look like?
15:47:59  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
15:48:02  * Celestar is listening to SFO tower live ATC
15:48:05  <MeusH> hey
15:48:25  <MeusH> !seen Wolf01
15:48:25  <_42_> MeusH, Wolf01 (~wolf01@ was last seen quitting #openttd 16 hours 55 minutes ago (10.01. 22:53) stating "" after spending 4 hours 33 minutes there.
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15:53:02  <Sacro> MeusH: Wolf01 is italian...
15:57:33  <MeusH> yep that's why I look for him :)
15:57:38  <MeusH> I'm looking*
15:59:09  <Brianetta> Celestar: Not sure yet
15:59:31  <Celestar> Brianetta: I'll make a map of Bavaria at some point
16:01:56  <Brianetta> cool
16:02:14  <Celestar> as soon as I can import a sensible heightmap
16:03:16  *** Chrill [] has quit [Quit: An Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind]
16:07:11  <stillunknown> Celestar: you live in Bavaria?
16:07:28  <Celestar> stillunknown: most of the time :)
16:09:51  <stillunknown> took me a few seconds to realize what it was, the german name is more familiar
16:10:49  <stillunknown> Celestar: does openttd use unums use purely for the purpose of having names attached to numbers?
16:10:59  <Celestar> stillunknown: mostly yes?
16:11:51  <stillunknown> considered using a class containing static consts?
16:12:51  <Celestar> not yet.
16:12:57  <Celestar> stillunknown: discuss with KUDr_wrk rather :)
16:13:39  <stillunknown> as i see it now there are several layers to make enums be something other than int
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16:13:52  <stillunknown> i will talk to him when i see him
16:14:03  <Celestar> stillunknown: ok
16:15:03  <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: I have read the pdf you made for balancing, but it's going to change a lot the way openttd economy works.. Is this soon or in long distance future?
16:15:30  <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: I will start soon
16:15:36  <stillunknown> what pdf
16:15:49  <Digitalfox_Away> stillunknown:
16:15:58  <Digitalfox_Away> stillunknown: made by celestar
16:16:06  *** Digitalfox_Away is now known as Digitalfox
16:17:43  <Sacro> :o its a Celestar
16:17:50  <Sacro> Celestar: didnt you have a pdf for newsignals?
16:17:58  <Celestar> Sacro: somewhere, yes.
16:18:08  <Celestar> I can't access my own server
16:18:12  <Celestar> does it work for all of you?
16:18:32  <peter1138> who's going to get r8086?
16:18:47  <Sacro> Celestar: yeah, i can get on
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16:19:10  <Celestar> everyone can
16:19:14  <Celestar> only I can't
16:19:18  <Celestar> not even with ssh
16:19:20  <Celestar> wtf is wrong
16:19:24  <Sacro> how strange
16:19:35  <Celestar> ok ssh is back
16:19:39  <Celestar> phes
16:19:44  <Smoovious> maybe you pissed it off... have you tried apologizing to it?
16:20:24  <Celestar> good idea
16:20:28  <Celestar> it HAS a female name after all
16:20:40  * Smoovious spent the past few hours listening to someone whine about how his girl isn't talking to him... >sighs<
16:20:44  <Sacro> ah ha, found it
16:20:55  <Sacro>
16:21:18  <Celestar> vici@arwen:[/home/vici]> uptime 4:44pm  up 159 days 23:28,  1 user,  load average: 0,00, 0,00, 0,00
16:21:24  <Celestar> my server is not REALLY full :P
16:21:31  <peter1138> Digitalfox: when editting the wiki can you put a short summary in please?
16:21:59  <Sacro> Celestar: im considering sitting down and hacking around in the signal code sometime soon
16:22:00  <stillunknown> Celestar: good luck with balance, are you going to do something about the speeds as well?
16:22:16  <Celestar> stillunknown: no. peter1138 is
16:22:16  <Digitalfox> peter1138: but i did in discussion :|
16:22:34  <Celestar> stillunknown: vehicles will have same speeds :)
16:22:46  <peter1138> which vehicles don't?
16:22:49  <peter1138> aircraft obviously
16:23:08  <Celestar> road vehicles
16:23:11  <peter1138> ?
16:23:16  <Celestar> they're accelerated
16:23:17  <peter1138> hmm
16:23:18  <Celestar> iirc
16:24:16  <stillunknown> it's really strange seeing a maglev train overtake a concorde
16:24:18  <Celestar> I shall make a branch for new_economy, right?
16:24:28  <peter1138> no
16:24:41  <peter1138> road vehicles and trains are the same
16:24:50  <stillunknown> no
16:24:55  <Celestar> peter1138: ok then they just get better ratings ...
16:25:05  <peter1138> yes
16:25:06  <stillunknown> road vehicles are given 2x the speed atm
16:25:11  <peter1138> stillunknown: no they're not
16:25:21  <Celestar> stillunknown: just considering ratings, not their real speed
16:25:24  <peter1138> rv going at 112km/h is the same speed as a train going at 112km/h
16:25:33  <peter1138> rvs internal speed is 2* though
16:25:34  <Celestar> peter1138: tested? :)
16:25:38  <peter1138> which affects the rating
16:25:40  <peter1138> yes, testing now
16:25:59  <stillunknown> peter1138: who had that strange idea
16:26:07  <peter1138> stillunknown: chris saywer
16:26:08  <Celestar> stillunknown: Chris Sawyer
16:26:09  <peter1138> sawyer
16:26:19  <Sacro> chris sawyer
16:26:39  <peter1138> max rv speed is 127 for a reasoN :)
16:26:47  <Sacro> peter1138: it runs out of bits
16:26:53  <Sacro> short unsigned int
16:26:55  <Celestar> peter1138: you're kidding, right? :
16:27:02  <Celestar> short is 16 bits
16:27:09  <peter1138> unsigned char, sacro
16:27:14  <peter1138> Celestar: no
16:27:16  <Sacro> :o char
16:27:18  <Sacro> how silly
16:27:26  <Celestar> peter1138: he really tried to save EVERY bit, right?
16:27:48  <peter1138> for trains, the tick handler is run twice
16:28:05  <peter1138> so 112 km/h is the same speed as 112 km/h for rvs
16:28:16  <peter1138> similar for planes, but it's run *6* times
16:28:58  * peter1138 ponders doubling train units and running it once (i think that's the right way)
16:29:01  <Smoovious> at the time, memory constrains were a lot harder... I remember playing TTD original on a 286
16:29:02  <stillunknown> are there known bottlenecks in ottd code listed somewhere?
16:29:10  <peter1138> stillunknown: yeah, in gprof :)
16:29:17  <Celestar> stillunknown: yes
16:29:27  <peter1138> istm tron had some mmx patch for the blitter...
16:29:31  <Celestar> stillunknown: 1) Ship pathfinding, 2) Vehicle collider
16:29:39  <peter1138> obviously not very cross platform...
16:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think TTO ran with about 2.5 MB RAM
16:29:46  <Smoovious> I can vouch for the ship pathfinding
16:30:05  <Smoovious> I had 1Mb of ram at the time
16:30:23  * peter1138 notes that the ttdp solution of running the aircraft handler 4 times results in it actually running the handler 24 times per vehicle tick
16:30:25  <Smoovious> actually, now that I think about it, I was using the 486
16:30:30  <Smoovious> (the same one I'm typing on)
16:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it also had some low-memory-mode
16:31:09  <Smoovious> 486 had 4Mb at the time... (has 14Mb now)
16:31:12  <stillunknown> Smoovious: you are joking?
16:31:27  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: that was a 256x256 map with a max of 240 stations
16:31:31  <Smoovious> nope...
16:31:38  * Smoovious grins.
16:31:40  <peter1138> Smoovious: how well does ottd run on that? :)
16:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think i ever hit the station limit
16:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i only ever hit the vehicle limits
16:32:01  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: no, the maps were to small
16:32:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> 80 trains is really not a lot
16:32:30  <Smoovious> I use this 486 just for chatting, running my email service, a couple other processor-non-intensive things
16:33:12  <Smoovious> I haven't tried, peter1138... I only tested µTorrent on it... I use OTTD on my main computer..a P3/733
16:33:19  <Sacro> Smoovious: what os?
16:34:02  <Smoovious> 486=Win95+(with some 98 libraries and other mods)... P3/733=Win2k-48pro
16:37:02  <stillunknown> Celestar: is the train collider called too often, because it doesn't seem to be that large?
16:37:28  <Celestar> stillunknown: it is called often
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16:39:13  <peter1138> every motion step i'd guess
16:39:24  <peter1138> which can be never, or can be several times a tick
16:39:29  <Celestar> peter1138: that is right
16:39:30  <peter1138> per train
16:39:37  <stillunknown> considered wasting a bit in the map?
16:39:37  <Celestar> more often it is several times a tick
16:39:46  <peter1138> depends how fast the train is, heh
16:39:49  <Celestar> stillunknown: how do one bit help?
16:39:57  <stillunknown> like a label that sais occupied
16:40:18  <stillunknown> must be a whole lot cheaper than this
16:40:40  <stillunknown> OnVehicleEnterNewTile (or something like that) could change that
16:41:02  <stillunknown> i think
16:41:02  <Brianetta> stillunknown: You can have four trains in one tile, easily
16:41:20  <stillunknown> but it would narrow checking for collisions down
16:41:44  <Brianetta> You'd just be doing an occupation check several times per tick
16:41:52  <Celestar> stillunknown: a larger hash would help
16:42:46  <stillunknown> away, will talk later again
16:42:52  <Celestar> yes
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16:44:50  <peter1138> who wants 32 bit VehicleIDs? heh
16:44:57  <peter1138> 65534 vehicles isn't enough!
16:45:06  <peter1138> 65535 maybe
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16:45:18  <peter1138> hmm, -1024 isn't it?
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16:46:50  <Celestar> er
16:46:54  <Celestar> later perhaps
16:47:00  <peter1138> i was joking
16:47:04  <Celestar> :P
16:47:25  <Celestar> well if you have 32 wagon long trains
16:47:28  <Celestar> that's 2000 trains
16:47:31  <Celestar> not that much :P
16:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, but then i want every light on the wagon be a own vehicle ;)
16:47:46  <hylje> around at ottdcoop we did some 50 wagon trains
16:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the wheels
16:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> and passengers walking around
16:48:47  <peter1138> separate bogies? heh
16:49:03  <peter1138> possible with newgrf, but nobody's done it, fortunately
16:49:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> and birds
16:49:14  <peter1138> (cos the bogies detach around bends)
16:49:29  <Celestar> peter1138: what's the point anyway if each bogie is like 2 pixels in size?
16:49:33  <peter1138> :)
16:49:48  <Celestar> we first need another zoom level
16:50:10  <hylje> or just 3d vehicles
16:50:21  <Celestar> hylje: well, someone will need to MAKE them
16:50:45  <Darkvater> back
16:51:00  <Darkvater> he that 'unlimited' thread is really funny
16:51:08  <Celestar> Darkvater: what's it about anyway?
16:51:09  <hylje> link to said thread
16:51:33  <Darkvater> I just fail to see the link between 'spaghetti code' and 'performance issues'
16:51:41  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:51:42  <Darkvater>
16:51:52  *** Digitalfox_ is now known as Digitalfox
16:51:58  <Celestar> Darkvater: well, hopefully it becomes less spaghetti in the future
16:52:18  <Darkvater> Celestar: nothing, some people without any knowledge of TTD/OTTD, the internal workings and what NFO actually is think they can do much better
16:52:26  <Darkvater> with a general purpose scripting engine like LUA
16:52:33  <Celestar> uh
16:52:37  <Celestar> does patchman know?
16:52:40  <Celestar> :P
16:52:43  <Smoovious> <peter1138> who wants 32 bit VehicleIDs? heh <--- I do! :D (I'm a big road-vehicle player :D )
16:52:44  <Darkvater> he replied twice :)
16:52:52  <Celestar> Darkvater: aaand?
16:52:59  <Darkvater> a vehement defender :)
16:53:01  <Darkvater> just read it
16:53:04  <Darkvater> it's pretty good
16:53:23  <peter1138> Smoovious: an rv is one vehicle, heh
16:53:32  <peter1138> and a helicopter is 3. woo
16:53:40  <Darkvater> I think the census last time was to make VehicleID 32bits when someone can show a working and purposeful game with 65K vehicles running
16:53:47  <Darkvater> until then... *wave*
16:53:59  <Celestar> Darkvater: ok I will when I do the economy/balancing
16:54:12  <Celestar> Darkvater: which I will start next week in a seperate branch
16:54:41  <Darkvater> peter1138:  < peter1138> tron might've done at some point ;)
16:54:45  <Darkvater> you think?
16:55:27  <Darkvater> the heightmap problem might be caused by the C++ merge; some alloc gone wrong (just like with bridge)
16:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> he said it was in RC3
16:56:19  *** caladan [] has joined #openttd
16:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> that has nothing to do with C++
16:56:50  *** Blue [] has joined #openttd
16:59:22  <Smoovious> hey, was wondering, if someone is planning to do a realistic stop for a red signal, can it also be made to pass a red signal if it doesn't stop in time? (with appropriate delay before starting again while the emergency brakes bleed out back to normal?)
16:59:48  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:00:05  <ln-> no
17:01:55  <Sacro> Smoovious: im thinking about this
17:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: first you have to introduce realistic red signals
17:02:08  <Sacro> join #newsignals
17:02:15  <Sacro> we might do something soon... i can feel it
17:02:20  <Celestar>  Smoovious yes.
17:02:26  <Celestar> Smoovious: newsignalling will do that
17:02:33  * Smoovious nods.
17:02:45  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: has a lot of work :P
17:02:57  *** ChrisM87 [] has joined #openttd
17:03:21  <Sacro> i want to get all signals to default to red first, might attempt that later
17:03:30  <Sacro> are we coding in C or C++?
17:03:32  <Celestar> Sacro: that is planned as well
17:03:34  <Smoovious> I have a chart for a 3-searchlight signalling scheme... which came from RailSim v1.21-us... a low-graphics train simulator I like to play from time to time
17:03:55  <Celestar> ok guys, I'm off
17:03:57  <Sacro> Celestar: i know, i was considering attempting it
17:04:02  <Sacro> Celestar: see you later
17:04:03  <peter1138> Sacro: C that compiles as c++ :P
17:04:09  <Sacro> peter1138: hmm..
17:04:21  <Celestar> nah, will be C++
17:04:30  <peter1138> bah
17:04:30  <Celestar> like integrated into Yapf
17:04:39  <peter1138> i'm trying to "optimise" the train controller
17:04:51  <peter1138> so that it only updates the train's image at the end of the cycle
17:04:59  <peter1138> should reduce newgrf overhead for fast trains
17:05:27  <peter1138> but sometimes it's not quite right :o
17:06:01  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: wouldn't it be better to "optimize" it? so it can work well in US too?
17:06:20  *** Triffid_Hunter [~Splat@] has joined #openttd
17:06:43  <Darkvater> :O
17:06:55  <hylje> lets omg-optimize it
17:07:36  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: who cares about them? :)
17:08:01  <Sacro> hylje: noo, zomg-optimisation!
17:08:05  <KUDr_wrk> i.e. me (i have my bosses there)
17:08:33  <hylje> hm, cbh fails to compile. it tries to do stuff with .c files
17:08:43  *** Blue [] has left #openttd []
17:08:45  <Darkvater> US should pay up if they want optimization
17:10:00  <Brianetta>
17:10:02  <Brianetta> good
17:10:05  <Sacro> hmm, what is bmp.cpp?
17:10:20  <Brianetta> Sacro: Screenshot routine
17:10:36  <Sacro> what good timing, you just used it :)
17:11:07  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
17:11:27  <Brianetta> I used png
17:11:46  <Brianetta> See how I cleverly add text to my image?
17:11:53  <Brianetta> See how I lined it up with the status bar?
17:12:01  <Brianetta> It looks utterly pap when *PAUSED* is on
17:12:06  <Sacro> indeed it is impressive
17:12:21  <Brianetta> Should I include the tile location?
17:12:29  <Brianetta> So people can scrollto themselves to the screenshot?
17:12:45  <Sacro> interesting question... where in svn are the .vcproj files?
17:12:50  <Sacro> or the .sln
17:13:05  <Sacro> ooh, ./projects
17:13:30  <Brianetta> I just noticed that chat in concole is still full-colour
17:13:35  <Brianetta> like the regular chat used to be
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17:22:04  <stillunknown> Celestar: is trackdirbits the candidate for the "hash"?
17:25:54  <Sacro> yeek a goto
17:27:24  <stillunknown> who is "US"?
17:28:16  <Sacro> ?
17:28:22  <Sacro> United States?
17:28:22  <stillunknown> and does it have to do with optimisations
17:28:50  <stillunknown> <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: wouldn't it be better to "optimize" it? so it can work well in US too?
17:28:55  <stillunknown> <Darkvater> US should pay up if they want optimization
17:28:55  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it hsd to do with zpelling
17:29:53  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8066 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 7 dirs): - Codechange: MallocT(), CallocT(), ReallocT() now return the pointer to allocated memory instead of modifying the pointer given as parameter
17:30:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's more of an in-joke really
17:30:10  * Sacro changes a goto make_red to a goto make_green
17:30:13  <Sacro> this could be funny
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17:31:26  * Sacro kills presignals :D
17:32:11  <hylje> :o
17:32:27  <Sacro> hylje: its just an experiment
17:33:10  <Sacro> interesting question, where will vs2005 put the exe...
17:33:30  <hylje> it doesnt let you have the exe unless you pay
17:33:33  <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\Development\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\strgen\strgen.exe', Symbols loaded.
17:33:33  <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll', No symbols loaded.
17:33:33  <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll', No symbols loaded.
17:33:33  <Sacro> The program '[6568] strgen.exe: Native' has exited with code 1 (0x1).
17:33:48  <Sacro> hylje: im a student, it was free from msdnaa
17:34:22  <hylje> who cares? :-)
17:35:07  <Sacro> ahh, there we go
17:35:13  <stillunknown> anyone got ideas about the smallest/efficient way to store occupancy on a train tile
17:35:14  <Sacro> i had to build strgen first
17:35:19  <Sacro> and then rebuild openttd
17:37:39  <Smoovious> well, you got 6 ways a track tile can be occupied... so probably best to do a bit-image
17:38:49  <stillunknown> trackdirbits i suppose
17:38:54  <Smoovious> if you need to keep track of that on each tile
17:38:55  <caladan> does it still happen the trains "circles" on one tile?
17:39:26  <Smoovious> think they can only circle on 4 tiles, smallest... can't circle on a single tile
17:39:53  <stillunknown> i'm looking for ways to reduce the calls to the train collision checker
17:40:08  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:40:17  <Sacro> BobingAbout!!!
17:40:18  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
17:40:44  * Sacro wiggles with joy as he has inverted a presignal
17:40:58  <Sacro> its now green so long as 2 trains are in the block
17:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: i'm afraid trains occupying the same trackbit is not a proper criterium for collisions
17:41:31  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: example situation?
17:41:38  <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause2: but it is a criteria to check
17:41:39  <Smoovious> yeah, but it would be enough to cause the collision check to occur
17:41:39  <caladan> like two in diagonal
17:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> ther can be a) two trains on the track and not crash (e.g. on each end of a tile) and b) two trains not on the same track, but crash (e.g. crossing)
17:43:03  <Smoovious> think what he's trying to do, is to make an initial quick-check to see if there are any trains close enough to even worry about a collision possibility in the first place, instead of checking for collisions constantly
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17:43:28  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... but in your latter example, they would both still be occupying the same tile
17:43:32  <Wolf01> ello
17:43:51  <Smoovious> so in both cases, it would be enough to make the collision check
17:43:58  <Sacro> Wolf01: MeusH is after an Italian
17:44:10  <MeusH> hello Wolf01
17:44:13  <MeusH> thank you Sacro :)
17:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it is also possible that trains crash without being on the same tile
17:44:48  <Smoovious> nope
17:45:12  <Wolf01> mmm i can't understand well what means "is after an Italian"
17:45:19  <Smoovious> they have to be occupying at least a single bit of space at the same time in order to crash... if they aren't, then they miss each other
17:45:22  <MeusH> =looks for an Italian
17:45:31  <Wolf01> oooh ok
17:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. when an engine is at the edge of tile X, its 'nose' is already outside of X
17:45:34  <MeusH> I'm not going to hurt you
17:45:38  <MeusH> but I'm coming to you :)
17:45:42  <Wolf01> :)
17:45:50  <MeusH> and I'd like to ask about prices
17:45:54  <Smoovious> if its nose is outside of X, then its nose is occupying X+1
17:46:09  <Sacro> this sounds like it could be amusing
17:46:18  <MeusH> like, how much does x cost:
17:46:22  *** Zahl22 [] has joined #openttd
17:46:22  <Wolf01> prices? are high :)
17:46:23  <MeusH> Bottle of water
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17:46:25  *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl
17:46:31  <MeusH> 2l of Cola
17:46:34  <MeusH> 0,3 can of Cola
17:46:42  <MeusH> a Snack like Snickers
17:46:50  <Wolf01> 2l of cola is about 1.50EUR
17:47:02  <Wolf01> snacks from 0.50EUR to 2EUR
17:47:33  <Wolf01> water... we throw it on your back to force you to buy it
17:47:37  <MeusH> that's very much
17:47:41  <Wolf01> about 0.30 at liter
17:47:45  <MeusH> aha, then I'm fine with water :)
17:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> who took my mouse?
17:48:17  <Smoovious> the X/Y of a train car is just the individual car's axis... its dimensions is also handled... that's how you can have cars of different length
17:48:26  <MeusH> Wolf01, where do you live?
17:48:34  <Smoovious> is=are
17:48:36  <MeusH> I mean, what part of country?
17:48:41  <Wolf01> north east
17:48:48  <MeusH> Lombardia?
17:48:53  <Wolf01> veneto
17:49:03  <MeusH> nice :)
17:49:04  <Wolf01> between trieste and venice
17:49:08  <hylje> here the water is like 1 euro per cubic meter
17:49:19  <MeusH> I'm going to Bormio
17:49:33  <MeusH> hylje: where do you live?
17:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: yes, but you cannot store the position of each bit of the vehicle
17:49:38  <hylje> finland
17:50:10  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... you don't have to... the individual car's dimensions are a constant...
17:50:59  <Smoovious> you only need to know which car it is, and what its orientation is... and they already deal with that at signals and stations... note how they don't stop at the engine's mid-point but where the front of it is
17:51:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but the problem is, this must be calculated on each check
17:51:27  <MeusH> hylje: and that is a good price
17:51:32  <MeusH> I always like Finland :)
17:51:33  <Smoovious> it already knows how far it has to figure in its calculations before it fouls another tile
17:51:57  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... it already is calculated on each check... again... for signalling
17:52:07  <Sacro> ah what an april fools day trick that was
17:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the objective is to reduce the number of calculations
17:52:23  <hylje> MeusH: the price of water is nice considering restaurants usually have water (tap) for .5-1e per liter
17:52:36  <hylje> nice profit!!
17:53:02  <Smoovious> right again... and if no trains are occupying the same tile, you don't need to make the higher-detail collision check
17:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, you do
17:53:19  <Smoovious> you only need to make the collision check, if 2 trains are found occupying the same tile
17:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have to do it for neighbouring tiles also
17:53:48  <Smoovious> no you don't... cuz neighboring tiles, aren't colliding
17:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> as you don't know (by looking at the vehicles coordinates) if it is overlapping to the next tile
17:54:12  <Smoovious> a collision, by definition, happens, when 2 vehicles try to occupy the same space at the same time... and if they aren't, they didn't collide
17:54:27  <stillunknown> i get eddi's point
17:54:51  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... you do when you take the vehicles dimensions into account...
17:54:56  * Smoovious sighs.
17:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> FOLLOW ME: you do not know the area the vehicle occupies, you have to calculate that first
17:55:21  <Smoovious> of course you know the area it occupies... the vehicle's dimensions are a constant...
17:55:52  <Smoovious> if the very first pixel, of an engine, is on the next tile, the next tile is occupied, and marked as such
17:56:53  <Smoovious> so long as each tile, shows a 0 or 1, with no exceptions, then you have no collisions anywhere... if any tile, shows a 2, then there is a possibility of a collision on that tile, and you can make your higher-detail collision check on that tile and the trains involved on that tile
17:57:28  <caladan> thats true
17:57:46  <Smoovious> a signal block goes red, when the first bit enters the block, and the last bit of the train, leaves the block... so the dimensions are already taken into account for track/block occupancy...
17:58:04  <Smoovious> if it didn't, then they would only go red and green when the middle of the car passed the tile boundary
17:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you do not have that kind of space... you need at least 2 bits for each tile that may ever be occupied by a vehicle
17:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> plus that means you may never have more than 2^(number of reserved bits) - 1 vehicles on the same tile
17:59:14  <Smoovious> you don't even have to do it on a per-tile basis... you can do it on a per-signal-block basis
17:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> or you need to bookkeep the tile numbers that are occupied by each vehicle
17:59:38  <Smoovious> which frankly, is exactly what signal blocks are for in the first place
17:59:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> which may be more than 2
18:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> but the game has no notion of a signal block
18:00:32  <Smoovious> individual train cars are only individual cars in the depot... when the trains are running, the entire train, regardless of how many pieces are in the train, are treated as a single unit
18:00:37  <hylje> aa
18:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a purely "virtual" view
18:00:45  <Smoovious> a train with 200 cars in it, still counts as 1 train
18:01:05  <Digitalfox> peter1138: look at roadmap 0.6, is it better now? With revision number?
18:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, Smoovious, each wagon is treated as an individual vehicle (currently)
18:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> if a train moves, it iterates over each wagon, and moves that wagon
18:01:37  <Smoovious> graphically, yes
18:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, game-logically
18:01:52  <Smoovious> but each train is a constant X length
18:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, a train can bend
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18:02:14  <peter1138> Digitalfox: i meant in the wiki change log
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18:02:31  <peter1138> if you leave it it just says "0.6.0 Roadmap" every change
18:02:32  <Smoovious> so train X, enters a block... train X is Y long... no matter if it is bending or not, it is still Y long, and takes up Y pixeks of track...
18:03:05  <Smoovious> pixeks=pixels
18:03:07  <Digitalfox> peter1138: how do i add the change log of what i made?
18:03:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the number of pieces is variable
18:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> because not all trackbits have the same length
18:03:27  <peter1138> Digitalfox: well you can only do it when you make the change
18:03:33  <caladan> like diagona are shorter and straight are longer
18:03:38  * Smoovious sighs.
18:03:47  <peter1138> Digitalfox: when you edit something, there's a Summary text box just above the buttons
18:03:59  <Digitalfox> peter1138: ah ok :)
18:04:01  <caladan> but i guess that this idea with
18:04:05  <Smoovious> a diagonal is going to have a constant length, and the train travels along it at the same constant length...
18:04:10  <caladan> "counter" of vehicles is ok
18:04:56  <Smoovious> if a section of track with 10 straight segments, and 2 diagonal segments, is X, and the train's entire length is also X, they're the same length...
18:05:23  <Smoovious> the only time they wouldn't be the same, is if you're measuring track-length and train-length with a different standard of measurement...
18:05:41  <Smoovious> like a mile for tracks is 122 units, and a mile for trains, is 124 units
18:07:08  <Smoovious> a train, just needs to be represented by its length... not by its consist elements...
18:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is total rubbish
18:07:31  <Smoovious> cuz when you get down to it, all that matters are the pixels it travels along
18:08:08  <Smoovious> it is NOT rubbish
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18:08:41  <Smoovious> if a train is X length, it is going to be X length no matter which way it is facing or travelling...
18:09:03  <Smoovious> train cars aren't connected to each other with bungee cords
18:10:23  <Sacro> shame that
18:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> that may be true (which it isn't, because a train may circle, and thus become shorter, or it may be in wormholes like tunnels and bridges), but just knowing the length will not help you reducing the collision checks
18:10:51  <caladan> how is it made now?
18:10:56  <Smoovious> a train, circling, doesn't become shorter, simply because it is circling... it still has the same pixel length... if it doesn't, then that is a bug
18:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but it occupies less tiles
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18:11:25  <Smoovious> less tiles is a different matter entirely
18:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> but tiles is exactly what this is about
18:12:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> we wanted to check if two vehicles might occupy the same tile
18:13:00  <Smoovious> a section of straight track, is going to be a constant X pixels... a section of diagonal track is going to be a constant Y pixels... those are 2 known constants... a train is Z pixels in length... another constant... so if the train is 122 pixels long... then you know where in front of the train to set a tile as occupied, and where behind the train to set the tile as unoccupied
18:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> and there is another flaw in your logic
18:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> you cannot just mark a tile as unoccupied if you leave it
18:14:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it might be occupied by another train
18:14:20  <Smoovious> no, you just reset your bit
18:14:39  <Smoovious> you don't work with scale model signalling and block occupation, do you?
18:15:06  <Smoovious> front of a train enters a block, you increment the counter for the block... end of the train leaves a block, you decrement the counter for the block
18:15:28  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH|gone
18:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> which would mean you have to check each tile you previously marked as occupied again, and that is not going to reduce the number of calculations for collision checking
18:15:34  <Smoovious> in fact, prototype railroads do their detection in the very same way
18:15:40  <Smoovious> no you wouldn't
18:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you cannot have a vehicle counter for each tile
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18:16:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is not enough space
18:16:17  <Smoovious> you don't need them for each tile... just for each signal block
18:16:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> again, there currently exists nothing like a signal block
18:16:54  <Smoovious> how do you know if a signal block is occupied, right now, to give a red or green signal?
18:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> the pathfinder is run
18:17:33  <Smoovious> the pathfinder is for trains... I'm talking track...
18:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> basically, you do a BFS down each connected trackbit, until you hit a signal
18:17:48  <hylje> trackfinder?
18:17:56  <Smoovious> a signal shows a red aspect for the track in front of it... how does the signal know, that it should show a red aspect?
18:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do not listen to me, i cannot help you
18:18:34  <Smoovious> help me? I'm helping you, dude
18:19:22  * Sacro whistles and watches the fun
18:19:30  * Smoovious grins at Sacro
18:19:40  <Sacro> the signalling system does use a pathfinder
18:20:22  <Sacro> i have just been studying rail_cmd.c
18:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i explain it one more time, if a train hits a signal, it runs a signal updater, which runs the pathfinder, until all connected signals are set to their appropriate state
18:20:33  <Sacro> indeed...
18:20:34  <Smoovious> ok, Sacro
18:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> same thing is also run if you build or remove a track
18:21:35  * Smoovious nods.
18:22:07  <Smoovious> and couldn't the same method, establish where each block of track is, that is surrounded by signals?
18:22:40  <Smoovious> the current path finder now, finds its paths, based on each individual track tile, no?
18:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> it could, but the calculation is heavy, and you have nowhere to store that information
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18:24:22  * Smoovious waits.
18:25:24  <caladan> I guess that creating structure like "signal block" could speed up things a little...
18:25:33  <Smoovious> yep
18:25:36  <caladan> And map is to be rewritten too...
18:25:39  <Smoovious> and you only need to do that, during building
18:25:44  <caladan> That's right
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18:25:54  <caladan> but then you have to have like index to block in signal block...
18:26:04  <caladan> i mean in signal tile
18:26:20  <Smoovious> then, finding routes, is a matter of indexing the signal blocks, and looking through the index, to find the shortest route that way, with the signal block index, showing the entry/exit points where there will be signals, a station, or a depot
18:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> again a flaw... you'd have to store the index to the signal block in each tile
18:26:47  <caladan> hmmm, that wont be that easy
18:26:54  <Smoovious> and for collision checking... scan the index, to see... if you have 0 trains occupying it... 1 train... 2?
18:26:58  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8067 /trunk/ -Fix (r7759): if bin/$(TTD) was removed, it did not get placed back on make unless $(TTD) got relinked.
18:28:09  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... no... only in the signal tiles...
18:28:34  <caladan> but there's no difference, all tiles are the same
18:28:36  <Smoovious> each signal would be part of 2 signal blocks... if a train is entering fron one side, it is leaving the other side...
18:28:54  <caladan> so there's really need of two indeces in one tile
18:28:59  <caladan> that's far too much
18:29:15  <caladan> 2bits per block would be better, to signal number of vehicles currently on
18:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: no, because you need to find the block from the vehicle, not from the signal
18:29:56  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... that's not how trains operate... trains only start and stop... finding where they need to go, is handled from somewhere else
18:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: but we are talking about the game, not some pseudo-realistic model of reality
18:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's two completely different things
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18:31:33  <FlashMCD> danm you all and your  '   s
18:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> the game's data is (to 90%) stored in the map, and everything else has to operate on that
18:31:41  <FlashMCD> *damn
18:31:52  <Smoovious> caladan... probably take a lot of work, sure... but in the end, would it be worth it? that's the big question... and I don't know that... but implementing a signal-block type of index, would probably make the constant path checks, take up less load during the game long-term... at the expense of a short-term calculation during the building process
18:32:20  <caladan> i would do it other way, compiling hmm, ideas
18:32:49  <caladan> i would add 2bit counter that would indicate number of vehicles on a tile
18:33:01  <caladan> and as we have train as set of cars
18:33:15  <caladan> the last would decrease that counter by one and first one (engine) would increase that
18:33:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> paths have absolutely nothing to do with signals
18:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> paths are decided at switches, not at signals
18:33:55  <Smoovious> caladan... but then you could end up having more than 3 vehicles at some point too... maybe... with signal blocks, you don't have to do 2 bits per tile, and probably do them indexed in the signal block
18:34:04  <Smoovious> paths don't have to be decided at switches
18:34:16  <Smoovious> they can be decided by entrance/exit of the block
18:34:49  <caladan> hmm, i mean one train as whole, not a car
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18:35:11  <caladan> it's iterated anyway, so the 1st would do ++ and last one --
18:35:19  <Smoovious> caladan... yeah... for some reason I was also counting road vehicles
18:35:55  <Smoovious> caladan... no, you'd still need at least 3 bits... cuz it is possible to have 4 trains occupying the same tile
18:36:06  <Smoovious> 2 on each half, of each paralell diagonal
18:36:11  <Smoovious> parallel
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18:36:22  <SpComb> Logs:
18:36:22  <Digitalfox> !logs
18:36:26  <CIA-1> miham * r8068 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (croatian.txt greek.txt japanese.txt):
18:36:26  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-11 19:35:48
18:36:26  <CIA-1> croatian - 93 fixed by knovak (93)
18:36:26  <CIA-1> greek - 10 fixed by Kesnar (10)
18:36:26  <CIA-1> japanese - 506 fixed by ickoonite (506)
18:36:49  <caladan> 2 or 3, doesnt matter
18:36:52  <caladan> but all tiles are the same
18:37:03  * Smoovious nods.
18:37:03  <caladan> putting in each tile 2 indeces to signalblocks is too much
18:37:15  <caladan> it would waste a *lot* of memory
18:37:43  <Smoovious> that's partly why I think using signal blocks would be better
18:37:57  <caladan> you dont get it i see
18:37:59  <Smoovious> then a whole set of tiles could be represented by a single index
18:38:00  <caladan> signalblock ok
18:38:05  <caladan> but how you find the proper one?
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18:38:15  <Smoovious> but then... those guys that like to put a signal on every single tile, would just kill it...
18:39:17  <caladan> right, and there are more and more of em ;]
18:39:43  <caladan> i like the counter idea the best
18:42:52  <Smoovious> I have an idea of how to represent track in my head right now, and I'll just confuse Eddi|zuHause2 again if I try to describe it... I'll try and get it down 'on paper' sometime tonight, with an example of how the index could represent the track
18:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not confused that easily, try me ;)
18:43:25  <Smoovious> and how it references where the block is located on the map
18:43:29  <Smoovious> I already did, thanks
18:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> keep in mind, it has to be both space and time efficient
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18:44:46  <Smoovious> it will be...
18:45:29  <Smoovious> the only thing I can see killing it, is people continuing to signal every single segment of track like they like to do now
18:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> don't care about those ;)
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18:46:24  <caladan> huh...
18:46:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> more important is a possible expansibility for PBS
18:46:33  <caladan> there are more and more of em...
18:46:54  <Smoovious> PBS is what I'm thinking of...
18:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> there will be less of them when newsignalling ideas get live
18:47:57  <Smoovious> well, not PBS specifically... but more, realistic signalling... and in order to do that, ya really gotta think in signal blocks
18:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, of course that is probably the best way to go, but the devil is in the detail ;)
18:49:29  <Smoovious> it shouldn't be difficult... the train simulators I've played already represent track like that, including switches and signal locations...
18:50:07  <Smoovious> probably need modifications, but the basic concept should still be sound
18:50:11  <Smoovious> brb
18:52:55  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:59:17  <nairan> i live in bavaria
19:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh no!
19:01:01  <Bjarni> what's wrong with Bavaria?
19:01:29  <valhalla1w> it is undrinkable
19:01:38  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
19:01:40  <Bjarni> that's for sure
19:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a foreign country!
19:02:04  <hylje> its bavaria.
19:02:04  <pv2b> it's got pus in it!
19:02:06  <Bjarni> then again, so is all beer
19:02:16  <Bjarni> or should I say bier to you guys?
19:02:23  <hylje> no
19:02:27  <hylje> use bear
19:02:38  <Bjarni> bear sized bier
19:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can call it "Plörre" if you want...
19:03:02  <Bjarni> lol
19:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know of any english translation of that word ;)
19:03:33  <Bjarni> that's how we spell well, some sort of pretty wet mud
19:03:35  <pv2b> beer is öl in swedish.
19:03:44  <pv2b> that is funny to german speakers for some reason
19:03:45  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
19:03:55  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04:04  <Bjarni> pv2b: in German öl means oil
19:04:20  <pv2b> i knew that.
19:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Bjarni> that's how we spell well, some sort of pretty wet mud <- that is probably not a coincidence ;)
19:04:54  *** Mizipzor [] has joined #openttd
19:05:10  <Bjarni> thinking about it, if some person is really drunk, you can call it "Plörre drunk"
19:05:28  <Bjarni> actually we use the letter ø, not ö, but that's usual
19:05:36  <Bjarni> it's the same thing anyway
19:05:56  <hylje> yeh, you silly danes
19:05:58  <pv2b> æø should be eliminated and replaced with äö.
19:06:01  <pv2b> they're useless characters
19:06:02  <Bjarni> no
19:06:12  <hylje> yes
19:06:14  <pv2b> yes
19:06:29  <Bjarni> I knew it
19:06:32  <valhalla1w> danish should be eliminated.
19:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not that we didn't try...
19:07:12  <Bjarni> the other EU countries prefer Denmark to be a tax paying piece of land without it's own will or culture
19:07:17  <hylje> you proposing that sweden invades danmark and mandates swedish as the only langage?
19:07:29  <Bjarni> now we are not even allowed to speak our own language anymore
19:07:31  <caladan> is it the same in your languages that children forget to use special letters?
19:07:45  <pv2b> hylje: i suggest we give skåne away to denmark and then nuke skåne and the rest of denmark.
19:08:00  <pv2b> caladan: no.
19:08:01  <hylje> defcon all over again?
19:08:16  <pv2b> speaking of defcon. i wonder if that has come out for mac yet. *checks*
19:08:33  <Bjarni> pv2b: err... after Stockholm moved their social problems to Skåne, you want to give Skåne back to Denmark?
19:08:39  <valhalla1w> speaking of defcon.. I was disappointed by IV
19:08:40  <pv2b> nope.
19:08:41  <hylje> its a plan i tell ya
19:08:46  <Sacro> defcon?
19:09:09  <pv2b> Bjarni: exactly.
19:09:10  <Bjarni> well, we wouldn't mind getting the land back, but not the social problems Stockholm created
19:09:43  * Sacro nukes Bjarniland
19:10:07  * valhalla1w nukes Sacro
19:10:13  <pv2b> that, or we could just set into action the plan to dig skåne away
19:10:14  <Sacro> :o
19:10:15  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
19:10:18  <pv2b> GRÄV BORT SKÅNE! :-)
19:10:25  * Sacro aims his ICBMs at valhalla1w
19:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> <caladan> is it the same in your languages that children forget to use special letters? <- what exactly do you mean?
19:11:30  <hylje> pv2b: looks like we have a common problem. you swedes want to offload skåne to denmark, we want to offload turku to sweden :-)
19:11:42  <pv2b> you mean Åbo
19:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> 70% of all people cannot spell correctly... that is so in any language
19:11:53  <pv2b> can we have Vasa too? :-)
19:11:59  <hylje> pv2b: i wasnt talking swedish was i? :)
19:12:07  <hylje> pv2b: in english finnish names are ok
19:12:23  <pv2b> bleh. stupid finnish people favorizing their own langage
19:12:25  <pv2b> language
19:12:42  <pv2b> you should know that Swedish is the more international language of the two :-)
19:12:42  <hylje> is that wrong by any scale?
19:13:05  <hylje> nah. maybe over there :-)
19:13:24  <pv2b> seriously. finnish is a language isolate. with maybe a little in common with hungarian
19:13:40  <pv2b> swedish is just any other language pronounced in our own way
19:13:43  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:13:49  <pv2b> also, swedish is an official language in *two* countries
19:13:58  <pv2b> that officially qualifies it as an international language
19:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, swedish is just a really bad dialect of english
19:14:05  <hylje> in other words, swedish is just another language which is fucked up just because
19:14:08  <Bjarni> I once saw on the news on the first of April that there was a secret plan to blow up the link between Skåne/Halland and the rest of Sweden. This would make the land move southwards and then the bridge is actually built to prevent the land from moving all the way to Germany. This should all be parts of a huge secret plot to regain old Danish land
19:14:09  <SpComb> :(
19:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> german is official language in at least 5 countries
19:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> and a few autonomous areas
19:14:41  <pv2b> Bjarni: OOOH so that's waht they're doing in the halland ridge tunnel
19:14:45  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
19:14:51  <pv2b> Bjarni: they're placing huge explosive charges :-)
19:14:57  <Bjarni> :D
19:14:59  <hylje> its a trap
19:15:00  <Bjarni> bbl
19:15:07  * Bjarni got some blowing up to do
19:15:14  * Bjarni got some land to steal
19:15:20  * Bjarni got some dinner to eat
19:15:22  <hylje> not suspicious
19:15:23  <pv2b> i've suspected the halland ridge tunnel was some kind of secret government project all along
19:15:24  <Bjarni> pick one
19:15:31  <pv2b> i was right all along!
19:15:58  *** scia [] has quit []
19:15:58  <SpComb> and swedish is only a official language in 1.5 countries
19:16:11  <pv2b> SpComb: as opposed to 1 country that finnish is official in. we win.
19:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i pick the dinner, you can have the rest
19:16:17  <pv2b> SpComb: estonian doesn't count.
19:16:25  <hylje> finland is winland thus we win.
19:16:37  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
19:16:46  <pv2b> but sweden discovered vinland in the 1100's or 1200's :-)
19:16:47  <SpComb> if we assume a rounding error to 1.49999999, we can round this down to 1, since you can't have half-countries
19:16:54  <hylje> its one v off win
19:17:08  <hylje> no dice
19:17:26  <Nigel> i vote Finland for the sake of it
19:17:28  <pv2b> oh well, icelanders, but still. we could conquer them.
19:18:00  <hylje> what good would conquering iceland do
19:18:07  <pv2b> hylje: thermal power
19:18:16  <hylje> its fairly local
19:18:25  <hylje> how would you move that to mainland?
19:18:35  <pv2b> hylje: and you could put up a radar base to detect incoming ICBM's from denmark's secret nuclear bases on greenland
19:18:36  <SpComb> tubes
19:18:37  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:18:49  <hylje> SpComb: hueg heat tubes are hueeeeeeg
19:19:06  *** Mizipzor [] has joined #openttd
19:19:29  <hylje> pv2b: yeah. defcon. i rest my case.
19:19:48  <pv2b> i wish iv came out with a mac version of defcon some day
19:19:51  <pv2b> i really want to play it :-)
19:21:54  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:24:56  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:27:10  *** PandaMojo__ is now known as PandaMojo
19:27:27  * PandaMojo finally svn updates to the C++ version
19:29:31  <Wolf01> i hope you don't have patches to sync
19:30:13  <PandaMojo> I have some that I may.
19:30:30  <PandaMojo> I made a backup though, so I can deal with that later :P
19:31:09  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:31:22  <PandaMojo> ...svn stat lists "openttd_vs80.suo" as an unmanaged file, and I can autocomplete the filename using tab from cmd.exe, but when I hit enter on it, del reports it can't find the file >_>
19:31:44  <PandaMojo> ...what the heck lol
19:32:10  <Wolf01> attrib -h -a -r -s filename
19:32:19  <PandaMojo> dir doesn't list it either
19:32:32  <Wolf01> try it
19:32:47  <PandaMojo> Prints nothing.
19:32:52  <Wolf01> dir it
19:33:28  <PandaMojo> Hmm.  If I wildcard it, it doesn't show up, but it does list it if I do the autocomplete.
19:33:47  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:33:57  <Triffid_Hunter> PandaMojo: sounds like filesystem corruption
19:34:00  <PandaMojo> No, scratch that, it only doesn't show if the wildcard could possibly match anything else too.
19:34:20  <PandaMojo> Explorer shows it...
19:34:36  <PandaMojo> Not RO or hidden...
19:34:37  <stillunknown> Celestar: are you here?
19:34:46  <PandaMojo> I can recycle it
19:35:00  <stillunknown> or peter1138
19:35:33  <CIA-1> miham * r8069 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [Translations] Moved japanese from unfinished, good job translators
19:35:47  <PandaMojo> Bizzare.
19:36:08  <Sacro> ooh japanese
19:42:01  <PandaMojo> 80 errors, all fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory :3
19:42:26  <hylje> :3
19:43:23  <MiHaMiX> PandaMojo: ?
19:43:28  <PandaMojo> Looks like it isn't!
19:43:36  <PandaMojo> MiHaMiX: Trying to compile from openttd_vs80.suo
19:43:56  <MiHaMiX> hmm
19:43:59  <PandaMojo> lang project reported it built successfully, but it's failed.
19:44:10  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:44:13  <MiHaMiX> .suo ?
19:45:37  <PandaMojo> the solution
19:45:46  <PandaMojo> err .sln
19:45:48  <PandaMojo> heh
19:51:55  <stillunknown> KUDr: are you here?
19:53:29  * PandaMojo keeps accidentally rebuilding everything >_>
19:54:06  <PandaMojo> ...
19:54:18  <PandaMojo> And my IDE is being retarded or my FS really is on the frits
19:54:20  <PandaMojo> *fritz
19:57:23  <PandaMojo> strings.h appears to be outputting to objs\langs\table rather than src\table.  Is this desired (I should patch #include paths), or undesired (I should patch output directory)?
20:00:12  * PandaMojo pokes MiHaMiX
20:01:38  <PandaMojo> Looks like objs\langs or objs\langs\table, actually
20:02:06  <Bjarni> <PandaMojo>	80 errors, all fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory :3 <-- what are you trying to do?
20:02:11  <Bjarni> compiling works for me
20:02:17  <Bjarni> at least the last time I tried
20:02:30  <PandaMojo> Bjarni: Full clean rebuild, removing any previous versions of strings.h?
20:04:02  <Bjarni> I just tried making a clean build based on head revision
20:04:04  <Bjarni> it works here
20:05:15  <Bjarni> are you trying to use MSVC or something?
20:05:19  <PandaMojo> Yes.
20:05:26  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:05:31  <Bjarni> use your mac
20:05:35  <Bjarni> then it will work ;)
20:05:42  <PandaMojo> >_>
20:05:47  <Bjarni> <_<
20:05:49  <PandaMojo> I'd rather fix the problem, no
20:05:51  <PandaMojo> ?
20:05:55  <Bjarni> sure
20:06:02  <PandaMojo> Since unlike my mac, this computer has 2 monitors.
20:06:04  <PandaMojo> :D
20:06:19  <Bjarni> but the issue is in the project file, so there is little that I can do
20:06:32  <Bjarni> OSX works rather well with two monitors
20:06:45  <Bjarni> it just demand that you actually got two monitors connected to it
20:07:14  <hylje> omg!
20:07:20  <PandaMojo> Bjarni: My iBook also doesn't have connectors for multiple monitors.
20:07:25  <PandaMojo> And I figured out my horrible mistake.
20:07:34  <Bjarni> ...
20:07:40  <Bjarni> no monitor outout?
20:07:44  <Bjarni> *output
20:07:53  <PandaMojo> Well, only one.
20:07:55  <Bjarni> it have been a while since I have seen  one of those
20:07:59  <hylje> ibooks usually have one, but not for extended desktop
20:08:03  <PandaMojo> And the built in LCD is the wrong rez
20:08:12  <Bjarni> ahh
20:08:49  <Bjarni> well, I once used a PowerBook, that got a 640x400 monochrome monitor and no monitor output
20:08:57  <Bjarni> you are in better conditions
20:09:01  <PandaMojo> Anyways, now that I'm using *semicolons* to seperate #include paths after adding ..\useful\include, it works :D
20:09:15  <Bjarni> I used that PowerBook for coding, so why do you complain?
20:09:16  <Bjarni> :P
20:09:28  <Bjarni> PandaMojo: LOL
20:09:36  <Bjarni> well, that's hardly an issue for me
20:09:45  <Bjarni> your failure to write
20:09:52  <PandaMojo> Indeed.
20:10:12  <hylje> PandaMojo has clearly used too much python -- judging from the non-;ness
20:10:33  <PandaMojo> hylje: MSVC likes whitespaces for most of it's deliminators.
20:11:02  <PandaMojo> (And requires IIRC, even)
20:11:13  <hylje> yay, nonstandardness
20:11:18  <PandaMojo> Indeed.
20:11:28  <PandaMojo> No diagnostic for screwing up with the extra include paths either.
20:11:33  <PandaMojo> Just ignoring the earlier one.
20:11:37  * PandaMojo mutters
20:11:46  <hylje> :3
20:13:24  *** Ailure [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:14:38  *** Blue [] has joined #openttd
20:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> <PandaMojo> strings.h appears to be outputting to objs\langs\table rather than src\table.  Is this desired (I should patch #include paths), or undesired (I should patch output directory)? <- that is desired behaviour, src should not have any autogenerated files
20:20:35  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:22:06  <PandaMojo> Indeed.  It works right, I just futzed things up using the "useful" stuff :P
20:37:37  <XeryusTC> <- rofl!
20:37:52  * XeryusTC mumbles something about evasive action :P
20:38:46  *** ProfFrink [] has joined #openttd
20:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... he asks us if we trust bill gates? ;o
20:40:18  <Wolf01> i prefer to trust my cat
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20:40:42  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
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20:44:24  <XeryusTC> Wolf01: i prefer to get licked by a cat :P
20:45:59  <Bjarni> you are a woman?
20:48:02  <MeusH|gone> cats' tongues have specific texture
20:48:09  *** MeusH|gone is now known as MeusH
20:48:17  <MeusH> they are funny in touch :p
20:48:34  <Bjarni> I never got licked by a cat
20:48:48  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
20:48:58  <Bjarni> but at one time a cat jumped up and bite me in my head  D:
20:49:10  <XeryusTC> owned!
20:49:17  <XeryusTC> cat tongues are like sanding paper
20:49:19  <MeusH> headshot!
20:49:20  <XeryusTC> but wet
20:57:42  <MeusH> see you later, 21th january
20:57:50  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
20:58:47  *** KUDr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:44  <Giddorah> I feel sorry for those russians :S
21:05:58  <Giddorah> They're pumping out stuff, and get nothing but bloats because they can't speak the language
21:06:10  <Giddorah> If they got a real task, they might even contribute to the real game
21:06:46  <Giddorah> Problem is... Can you give tasks to russian people? Or would that violate some healthcode or the UN or something?
21:06:55  <Giddorah> We need to send them money or food or what?
21:08:12  *** KUDr [] has joined #openttd
21:15:47  <Giddorah> Forum died or my internet crapped out on me?
21:23:24  *** mikl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:25:30  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
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21:27:02  <Sacro> Giddorah: most likely the forum died
21:28:27  <stillunknown> weird, i added some functions and they don't show on gprof
21:30:23  <caladan> stillunknown: and where do you call em?
21:31:44  <stillunknown> TrainController
21:33:20  <stillunknown> @caladan
21:37:08  <caladan> hmm, and didnt the TrainController function gain time?
21:37:11  <caladan> or percentage?
21:37:40  <caladan> maybe your new function is included in upper level function execution time
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21:41:37  <Darkvater> PandaMojo: got it to work?
21:41:47  <PandaMojo> Darkvater: Yes, PEBKAC
21:41:49  <PandaMojo> :D
21:41:56  <Darkvater> was going to say that
21:42:23  <stillunknown> caladan: i wish i had a savegame with a lot of trains
21:42:44  <PandaMojo> Actually, I blame Microsoft's IDE for not giving me an error, but regardless, it's not OTTD's fault :P
21:42:58  <Darkvater> you just would've had to do Build Solution
21:43:09  <Darkvater> and set openttd as startup project if you want to run it
21:43:19  <PandaMojo> Nah, needed to add the paths to the useful package
21:43:25  <PandaMojo> And MSVC takes
21:43:38  <PandaMojo> space to mean "ignore previous include dir" Rather than a sperator.
21:43:40  * Darkvater points at the wiki or docs/msvc_readme
21:43:45  *** MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44:39  <stillunknown> anyone know of stock savegames that have lot's of trains?
21:45:56  <caladan> do cheat and clone trains :D
21:47:26  <stillunknown> i still have to built lot's of rail
21:47:44  <caladan> how many?
21:47:55  <caladan> hmm, right :>
21:49:16  <caladan> so take empty scenario and build some...
21:49:49  <CIA-1> glx * r8070 /trunk/src/heightmap.cpp: -Fix r5815: missing initialisation could cause crash when loading 24bpp BMP heightmap
21:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: try the openttdcoop savegames
21:54:33  <glx> pile transport :)
21:54:45  *** l_Blue_l [] has joined #openttd
22:02:31  <XeryusTC> hmm, r8000+ already?
22:05:35  <Wolf01> seem so
22:06:05  <Darkvater> Celestar: ping
22:07:09  <Darkvater> KUDr: I like r8066 :)
22:07:16  <KUDr> :)
22:07:56  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
22:08:40  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:09:40  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
22:18:54  <Brianetta>
22:18:55  <Brianetta> Yey!
22:18:57  <Brianetta> A train!
22:18:59  <Brianetta> and a station!
22:19:06  <Darkvater> w00t
22:19:14  <Darkvater> you should archive your shots :)
22:20:21  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:30  *** ufoun [] has joined #openttd
22:23:06  <XeryusTC> Brianetta: is that screenshot thing running in the minimal stable resolution?
22:24:27  <Brianetta> XeryusTC: Yes
22:25:18  <caladan> Brianetta: how does it work?
22:25:22  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:25:47  <Brianetta> autopilot
22:25:58  * Brianetta says, as if that should explain all
22:26:21  <Brianetta> The server has a screenshot command, same as the client
22:26:38  <caladan> and how you trigger it?
22:27:04  <Brianetta> autopilot uses its timer
22:28:05  <Darkvater> so KUDr do you still have that face-patch somewhere?
22:28:11  <KUDr> yes
22:28:20  <KUDr> i will rewrite it to c++
22:28:27  <KUDr> it will be much shorter
22:28:33  <KUDr> much less code
22:28:33  <Darkvater> ok
22:28:37  <Brianetta> face-patch?
22:28:37  <FlashMCD> hello my lovely people
22:28:48  <FlashMCD> zomg my name is meh alternate!
22:28:51  *** FlashMCD is now known as FlashFF
22:28:53  <FlashFF> phew
22:29:06  <FlashFF> does anyone know roughly how a client unique ID is made?
22:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> jez's face customi[sz]ation?
22:29:40  <Darkvater> well it's more like KUDr's face customisation
22:29:51  <KUDr> no
22:29:55  <KUDr> Jez's
22:30:00  <Darkvater> no
22:30:01  <KUDr> my is only code
22:30:05  <Darkvater> so it's yours
22:30:06  <Darkvater> :)
22:30:14  <KUDr> Jez's is whole algorithm, ideas and so on
22:30:28  <KUDr> implementation is my
22:30:30  <KUDr> yes
22:30:33  <Darkvater> ok then it's Jez's patch implemented by KUDr
22:30:39  <KUDr> yes
22:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i still find it ironic that he complains about the complification of the colour scheme selection while in the same breath he complicates face selection ;)
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22:39:42  <stillunknown> Celestar: here?
22:41:24  <stillunknown> how is the general thought on cpu vs memory usage?
22:42:14  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...]
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22:46:12  <Giddorah> U know what you should do with the Autopilot? :D
22:46:27  <stillunknown> who?
22:46:36  <Rubidium> Darkvater: you here?
22:46:41  <Giddorah> *you as in... Anyone who has the source for it
22:46:42  * Darkvater looks around
22:46:54  <Rubidium> <- he's spamming, can you do something about it?
22:47:17  <stillunknown> i've been looking at reducing the usage of the train collision function
22:47:21  <Rubidium> hmm, seems somebody else removed him already
22:47:23  <stillunknown> because it is said to be expensive
22:47:26  <Darkvater> orudge`: !
22:47:33  <Darkvater> remove him
22:47:44  <Darkvater> it's already removed :)
22:47:51  <Giddorah> Can only find 1 post by him
22:47:51  <Darkvater> I can only move his posts to spambin
22:48:22  <Rubidium> yeah, as I just said, somebody already removed his posts
22:48:39  <Giddorah> Awesome
22:48:41  <stillunknown> is a reduction from 14-15% to 2.5% worth some memory?
22:48:59  <Giddorah> ?
22:49:04  <stillunknown> percentage is total time spent on the collision enum something
22:49:17  <Giddorah> How much memory?
22:49:18  <stillunknown> i tested a map with A LOT of trains
22:49:35  <stillunknown> 9 bits of memory per tile
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22:50:00  <Giddorah> That's what you need to take the time spent from 15 to 2.5?
22:50:05  <Rubidium> so a little over ~4.5 MB for the largest map
22:50:20  <stillunknown> i ran a test
22:50:32  <stillunknown> that sais what % of time is spent on what function
22:50:39  <stillunknown> normally it's 15%
22:50:46  <stillunknown> i reduced it to less than 3
22:50:54  <stillunknown> and the new stuff is a minor load in comparison
22:51:06  <Rubidium> now the question is, did it make another function use _much_ more processor power...
22:51:25  <Rubidium> so, did the run-time decrease by about 10%?
22:52:11  <orudge`> Darkvater?
22:52:17  <orudge`> Ah
22:52:19  <orudge`> the spam?
22:52:23  *** orudge` is now known as orudge
22:52:26  <Rubidium> orudge: yes
22:54:37  <Brianetta> They're dropping like flies
22:54:40  <Brianetta> the buses
22:54:43  <stillunknown> Rubidium: the normal game was maxing my cpu out almost
22:54:46  <Brianetta> on the level crossings
22:54:56  <stillunknown> the other one definately had more air, around 80% i think
22:55:05  *** TheMask97 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:55:59  <stillunknown> although the game was filled and not exactly working perfectly (probably an old savegame or newgrf issues)
22:58:18  <stillunknown> seems i was wrong about the cpu usage
22:58:28  <Rubidium> did the game work perfectly without the change?
22:58:59  <stillunknown> no, definately not
23:00:55  <stillunknown> i think i'll leave the benchmarking up to others
23:01:56  <stillunknown> because gprof definately suggest large improvements
23:02:12  <stillunknown> but i can't seem to get that from the actual cpu usage
23:03:13  <stillunknown> maybe gprof has too much overhead
23:04:57  <BFM> Anyone play Black & White lately? Is it worth a reinstall? What about the sequal, was it any good?
23:05:10  *** hylej [hylje@] has joined #openttd
23:05:10  *** hylje [hylje@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:06:15  <stillunknown> is it possible that ottd changes gamespeed according to available cpu power?
23:06:53  <Darkvater> it goes slower if it can't keep the standard rate
23:06:53  *** HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
23:08:13  <stillunknown> that explains the lack of difference in cpu load
23:08:35  <Darkvater> you should use fast-forward
23:09:07  <stillunknown> release build gives better idea
23:09:25  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has joined #openttd
23:09:28  <stillunknown> 40% vs 50+% cpu usage
23:09:36  <stillunknown> ~1000 trains
23:09:42  <Darkvater> you ALWAYS benchmark in release mode
23:10:00  <stillunknown> not if you want gprof figures :-)
23:10:09  <Wolf01> night all
23:10:12  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
23:10:52  <Darkvater> than gprof sucks
23:10:59  <Darkvater> or you don't know how to use it
23:11:09  <Darkvater> if your binary is not optimized it makes no sense to profile
23:11:48  <stillunknown> gprof needs debug symbols for detailed information, but now that i think of it, the basic info is probably always available
23:12:09  <Darkvater> debugging symbols can still be present if your binary is optimized
23:12:26  <stillunknown> true, i didn't say i used debug mode 3
23:15:03  <stillunknown> Darkvater: nevertheless, is a less cpu usage prefered over a little more memory?
23:15:37  <Darkvater> depends on how much less cpu it is
23:15:56  <Darkvater> for example loadwaitvehicle can use 80% cpu which can be changed to 2% with a little memory
23:16:40  <stillunknown> and is that done atm?
23:16:48  <Darkvater> not yet
23:16:50  <stillunknown> i said, 9 bits per tile
23:17:46  <Darkvater> well 9 bits turns into at least 16
23:17:49  <Maedhros> proper fifo loading would help to avoid using loadwaitvehicle at all
23:19:34  <stillunknown> Darkvater: the 9th bit can probably be stolen somewhere
23:19:49  <stillunknown> the other 8 however
23:21:32  <stillunknown> (the 9th is seperate in function)
23:22:05  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:22:20  <stillunknown> did an unfair comparison it seems, 50% vs 60% cpu usage is the difference (with identical openttd.cfg this time)
23:23:09  <caladan> stillunknown: you get that from that gprof?
23:23:21  <stillunknown> no, just running figures
23:23:28  <stillunknown> i have gprof data as well
23:26:27  <stillunknown> with debug (level 1) on and gprof openttd becomes cpu limited
23:26:43  <stillunknown> but time for bed now
23:26:54  <FlashFF> does anyone know roughly how a client unique ID is made?
23:28:39  *** MYOB [] has joined #openttd
23:33:05  <Brianetta> the 19th of March, 2048
23:33:19  * Brianetta hugs his working date parsing routine
23:33:20  <Brianetta> the 26th of March, 2048
23:33:48  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:33:54  <MYOB> erm, does the build system actually REQUIRE a static zlib?
23:35:17  <glx> MYOB: which platform?
23:35:38  <MYOB> beos - however the configure --help output specifies "zlib.a"
23:36:07  <glx> static lib is only needed for static build
23:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, i managed to do daily savegame ;)
23:37:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> (autosave)
23:37:45  <MYOB> yes, that would be normal... however it appears to be specifically looking for that - it didn't find the perfectly valid in my path
23:39:52  <glx> you can use I think
23:40:23  <MYOB> yeah, that got it to configure at least
23:40:38  <MYOB> can tell there appears to be 0 maintaince for the BeOS port when I'm busy ;)
23:40:47  <MYOB> as I've hit in to something straight away
23:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't say i know a lot of BeOS users
23:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> (where "a lot" = "any")
23:41:48  <MYOB> <--
23:42:15  <caladan> We are impressed :-)
23:42:37  <glx> MYOB: --disable-static should work too (as in this case it doesn't try to find libz.a and use -lz)
23:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> honestly, i do not know you...
23:42:53  <MYOB>  string.o(.text+0xa4e): In function `MapLogX(void)':
23:42:53  <MYOB>  : undefined reference to `_map_log_x'
23:42:54  <MYOB>
23:42:59  <MYOB> that function isn't in string.cpp
23:43:02  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: well, that tells something about his activity the last few years
23:43:07  <Bjarni> hi Cian
23:43:15  <MYOB> Bjarni you scared me away :P
23:43:35  <MYOB> (more accurately I've been working my arse off in BT Broadband)
23:44:04  <glx> hmm peter1138 has some problems with BT IIRC
23:44:17  <MYOB> hahah
23:44:22  <Bjarni> yeah
23:44:30  <Bjarni> MYOB did something on purpose to get even
23:44:34  <Bjarni> for something
23:44:48  <Bjarni> even though nobody remembers for what
23:44:55  <MYOB> I'm leaving very soon and may never be in the office again, but if its consumer BB related I should be able to help or point him to someone who can
23:46:16  <MYOB> soon-to-be-ex-Adminstration Co-ordinator, Esclations Helpdesk ;)
23:47:26  <MYOB> right, doing a clean checkout as the mad amount of stuff moved in the last one may be leading to problemts
23:49:41  <Bjarni> sounds like you are getting sacked
23:49:42  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:49:50  <MYOB> still getting that MapLogX stuff
23:49:58  <MYOB> Bjarni laid off
23:50:13  <Bjarni> too lazy?
23:50:14  <MYOB> jobs moving to cheaper sites in northern ireland/northern england
23:50:16  <MYOB> no
23:50:46  <Bjarni> ohh... greedy
23:51:18  <MYOB> BT are nothing but
23:51:49  <MYOB> anyway, why does the build system seem to think MapLogX and similar are in string.cpp? and strgen.cpp?
23:53:38  <Darkvater> this same bug was present with the watcom compiler as well
23:53:52  <glx> it must be in one of the includes
23:54:11  <MYOB> I'm "just" using an antique gcc
23:54:24  <Darkvater> I think it's something that if you declare a variable 'extern' it'll complain if it can't find the actual definition
23:54:30  <Darkvater> or something like that it was
23:54:42  <Darkvater> with some crappy compilers
23:54:45  <glx> try to use VARDEF in the header
23:55:11  <Darkvater> try to sort out the includes rather :)
23:55:25  <Darkvater> VARDEF won't work cause you'll get 'multiple define' errors
23:57:04  <MYOB> remembering that I'm just a copy-and-pasting porter basically, what did the Watcom users do?
23:57:22  <Darkvater> add a horrible cludge
23:58:13  <Darkvater> see strgen.cpp:30
23:58:38  <Darkvater> but best not to do that cause I've been to deleting hose multiple times already

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