Log for #openttd on 15th January 2007:
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00:00:17  <Bjarni> so right now gfx.h relies on openttd.h gets included before itself gets included
00:00:20  <Bjarni> which is bad
00:00:34  <KUDr> Bjarni: try repair it
00:00:49  <KUDr> i don't have osx to see the problem
00:00:50  <Rubidium> Bjarni: it happens all the time and all over the place :(
00:01:17  <Bjarni> I know one way to fix this... include openttd.h in gfx.h, but obj-c files can't include openttd.h
00:01:35  <KUDr> Bjarni: so try obj-C++
00:01:49  <KUDr> this would solve the problem forever
00:01:53  <Darkvater> gn all, see you Monday :)
00:02:08  <KUDr> as the osx is last platform without full C++ ability
00:02:19  <KUDr> Darkvater: gn
00:03:01  * Bjarni is completely clueless about obj-C++
00:03:06  <Bjarni> never heard of it before
00:03:15  <Bjarni> #ifndef __cplusplus
00:03:15  <Bjarni> typedef uint32 SpriteID;
00:03:15  <Bjarni> #endif //__cplusplus
00:03:17  <Bjarni> #include "../gfx.h"
00:03:28  <Bjarni> this is likely the ugliest fix I can think of, but it works
00:03:38  <Bjarni> in cocoa_v.m
00:04:12  <KUDr> #ifndef __cplusplus is not needed
00:04:52  <KUDr> add just "typedef uint32 SpriteID;" into gfx.h
00:05:18  <Rubidium> KUDr: think that works?
00:05:28  <KUDr> why not?
00:05:47  <Rubidium> redefinitions?
00:05:47  <KUDr> typedef can be there many times if it is the same
00:05:55  <KUDr> must be the same
00:06:02  <KUDr> then it is correct
00:06:06  <Rubidium> that's ugly
00:06:10  <KUDr> at least in C++
00:06:17  <KUDr> it is not macro
00:06:25  <KUDr> it is namespace update
00:06:41  <KUDr> like forward declarations
00:06:51  <KUDr> they can be there multiple times too
00:09:30  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8140 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp:
00:09:30  <CIA-1> -Fix [FS#54]: Combat helicopter flies past factory before it shoots. Chopper
00:09:30  <CIA-1> comes from the north-east, so it looks in +15 direction (forward), not -15
00:09:30  <CIA-1> direction. Probably bad copy-paste from airplane-destroys-oil-refinery disaster.
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00:18:56  <Wolf01> i have a problem, there is anybody who can help me? is about button's dropdown list
00:19:08  <glx> again ?
00:19:18  <Wolf01> yes :|
00:19:40  <glx> I though it worked in previous version of your patch
00:19:51  <Wolf01> the problem is the map button, it have two different lists, one for the game and one for the editor
00:20:02  <Wolf01> i didn't noticed it previously
00:20:57  <Wolf01> so in the editor the string appear "transparency toolbar" instead of "town directory" and opens the town directory
00:21:19  <Wolf01> option1: duplicate strings
00:21:19  <Wolf01> option2: i don't know
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00:28:36  <glx> Wolf01: you just need to update MenuClickScenMap()
00:29:29  <Wolf01> how to tell it to jump the transparency string line?
00:29:52  <glx> why remove transparency options in scenedit?
00:30:16  <Wolf01> mmm right... why remove them
00:30:35  <glx> update ToolbarScenMapTownDir() too and it should work
00:31:24  <glx> (transparency inserted between sign list and town dir)
00:34:18  <Bjarni> Mac OS X 10.1 introduces the Objective-C++ front-end to the Mac OS X version of the GCC compiler.
00:34:27  <Bjarni> found that on Apple's homepage
00:34:41  <Bjarni> now that I know that it's there... how to use it? :)
00:38:10  <Wolf01> there is a reason why the gui opens in the game but not in the editor?
00:38:35  <Wolf01> (and after this problem is still only the shift-bits problem and all should be done)
00:38:39  <ln->
00:39:24  <glx> Wolf01: after you updated the 2 functions I said?
00:39:29  <Wolf01> yes
00:40:05  <glx> show me the diff
00:42:19  <Wolf01>
00:45:48  <glx> Wolf01: if (!IsValidPlayer(_current_player)) return; <-- I think it's the problem :)
00:46:08  <Wolf01> oh ok
00:48:00  <Wolf01> works
00:54:00  <BFM> KAPOW
00:58:22  <CIA-1> bjarni * r8141 /trunk/src/video/cocoa_v.h:
00:58:22  <CIA-1> -Fix r8128: [OSX] now OSX can compile again.
00:58:22  <CIA-1>  Note: this is again another not so nice workaround as Objective C fails to include C++ code in the headers
00:58:22  <CIA-1>  We should move to Objective C++ as soon as possible, but such a change is not done overnight and
00:58:22  <CIA-1>  this quick fix will allow OSX to compile until the prober solution is done
00:58:46  <Wolf01> any chance to have transparency gui merged in trunk?
00:59:34  <Bjarni> goodnight
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01:01:19  <ln-> rewrite the whole game in Obj-C
01:02:29  <Smoovious> do it in Logo
01:02:30  <Smoovious> :)
01:03:05  <Wolf01> do it in english language directly :)
01:03:39  <Wolf01> mmm i think i must sleep, i have to wake up in 6 hours to go to work
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01:06:32  <Wolf01> 'night all (merge transparent options gui patch!!! -> , thanks :D )
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01:17:44  <ln->
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01:32:50  <ThePizzaKing> ln-: Interesting, but it doesn't say how much water she consumed
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01:33:51  <ln-> ThePizzaKing: it also doesn't say whether she was given the Wii.
01:34:43  <ThePizzaKing> Hmmm
01:36:00  <ln-> or her family.
01:38:03  <ThePizzaKing> I should really find out how much they were drinking (I haven't the faintest idea how much 8 ounces is)
01:39:50  <ThePizzaKing> 227 grams
01:43:07  <ln-> half pint they say
01:43:23  <ln-> and everybody knows a pint is 0.568 litres
01:46:12  <ThePizzaKing> I do?
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01:48:05  <ThePizzaKing> But that's the UK pint, I assumed that it would be a US pint, which is apparently 0.473 litres
01:48:46  <ln-> ah, great, it's nice that they have their own variants of units.
01:49:31  <ThePizzaKing> I'm just glad that Australia uses internationally standardised units to avoid these problems
01:50:44  <ThePizzaKing> "A pint of beer in Australia or New Zealand is 570 ml, except in South Australia where a pint is 425 ml and 570 ml is called an imperial pint."
01:51:11  <ThePizzaKing> South Australia always has to be different
01:51:23  <Sacro> 8 ounces?
01:51:46  <Sacro> would that be fl oz? or just oz?
01:52:19  <ThePizzaKing> you mean there's a difference
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02:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> fl oz is a unit of volume, oz is a unit of mass
02:05:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> like liter and kilogram
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02:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> i just never have the slightest idea how much they are, or how they are related
02:08:29  <ThePizzaKing> But you can measure Liquids in volume and Mass
02:08:48  <ThePizzaKing> Luckily 1 gram of water = 1 millilitre of water
02:09:16  <ThePizzaKing> That makes things much less confusing
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02:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but i have no idea if that is the same with oz and fl oz
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02:22:33  <ThePizzaKing> There's even a metric ounce
02:22:37  <ThePizzaKing> Or two
02:28:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> i only know that germany introduced a "metric" pound (=500g)
02:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> before that, there were probably like 10 dozen different pounds in use ;)
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02:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> that was probably around 1870/71
02:32:28  <Sacro> :o
02:32:31  <Sacro> they are breeding
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02:38:18  <ThePizzaKing> Apparently there's a Dutch ounce - 100g
02:38:26  <ThePizzaKing> and a Chinese one - 50g
02:39:03  <ThePizzaKing> But I suppose they're not official measurements
02:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm actually surprised they did not introduce a metric time
02:40:48  <Sacro> they did
02:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, not widely ;)
02:41:04  <Sacro> its @153.70
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03:20:54  <CIA-1> glx * r8142 /branches/newhouses/ (150 files in 15 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r8044:8127
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03:46:34  <l_Blue_l> Hey does anyone know much about the devlopment of graphics related things?
03:49:01  <DaleStan> l_Blue_l: Are you talking about writing GRF files, writing support for GRF files, writing 32bpp .tars, or supporting 32bpp .tars?
03:50:24  <l_Blue_l> I am wondering how the 32bpp branch is going as i am thinking of makeing some imagers for it
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06:57:23  <roboboy_> what ports does openttd user for mp?
06:57:50  <peter1138> 3979 mostly
06:57:54  <roboboy_> ok
06:58:17  <roboboy_> ill ask my dad to unblock them so i can have servers
06:58:44  <Smoovious> I think servers use 3978 too... I saw mention of it on another page, but if you're not serving you don't have to worry about it, for clients it is outgoing only (think it was only UDP too)
07:01:21  <Celestar> Rubidium: please respond
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07:24:02  <peter1138> bah
07:24:06  <peter1138> too many breakdowns
07:24:20  <peter1138> reliability: 0% breakdowns: 11
07:24:21  <peter1138> hee
07:26:24  <Smoovious> yeah, that'll do it
07:26:43  <peter1138> and bah, damn ufos
07:28:38  * Smoovious chuckles.
07:28:52  <Smoovious> just had a thought about something donewith UFO's that would just make people think I'm creepy
07:29:02  <Smoovious> er... more creepy that is
07:29:44  <peter1138> bah, even the modern trains are breaking down
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07:32:54  <Celestar> damnit
07:33:19  <Celestar> how many places do we have that modify town rating? :o
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07:35:33  <peter1138> hmm?
07:38:40  <CIA-1> tron * r8143 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp dock_gui.cpp rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp):
07:38:40  <CIA-1> Remove the landscaping button from the build toolbars.
07:38:40  <CIA-1> The landscaping toolbar can be reached at least as easy directly from the main toolbar.
07:38:40  <CIA-1> Further two of the four toolbars uses 'l' as keyboard shortcut for this button, which plain does not work (The letter has to be uppercase).
07:38:40  <CIA-1> This was covered by the fact there is a global shortcut 'L' to open the landscaping toolbar, so the individual checks in the four build toolbars were redundant anyway.
07:39:37  <Tron> what an essay for removing less than 30 lines of code
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07:42:44  <MiHaMiX> hm
07:42:50  <MiHaMiX> I used those buttons :-(
07:42:53  <MiHaMiX> never mind
07:43:08  <MiHaMiX> I'll use the L shortcut
07:43:51  <peter1138> the main toolbar button isn't that far away
07:44:14  <Tron> the other button with the same effect is about 2cm left and a bit higher
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07:44:52  <MiHaMiX> ok, no problem. will that patch settings still work, which opened the landscaping toolbar when I open a construction toolbar?
07:45:00  <peter1138> yes
07:45:13  <MiHaMiX> ok, in this case I'm no longer crying :D
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08:08:36  <SpComb> Logs:
08:08:36  <TheMask96> !logs
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09:10:32  <Darkvater> morning
09:11:21  <peter1138> hi
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09:16:55  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8098
09:17:00  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8098 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp (2007-01-13 15:00:40 UTC)
09:17:02  <_42_> -Fix (r6964): For editboxen, always fill the background with black, and not only after a valid call to FillDrawPixelInfo. This solves some graphics glitches with background widget-colour showing through on frequent redraws.
09:17:06  <Darkvater> hmm
09:17:12  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8080
09:17:13  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8080 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp (2007-01-12 16:30:41 UTC)
09:17:15  <_42_> -Codechange (r8079): Move the *WHOLE* performance code into the #ifndef and some style changes.
09:17:23  <Darkvater> wow I'm good, only finding my own commits ;p
09:17:25  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8090
09:17:26  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8090 /trunk/src/string.cpp (2007-01-13 13:13:32 UTC)
09:17:28  <_42_> -[win32] Fix (r8089): for *nprintf 'ret = count' NOT 'ret = 0'...
09:17:30  <Darkvater> lol
09:17:36  <Darkvater> ok but this isn't working
09:18:50  <Darkvater> there we go
09:18:54  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8107
09:18:56  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8107 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2007-01-13 17:44:11 UTC)
09:18:58  <_42_> -Codechange (r8106): Show the MD5SUM of the original GRF (saved in savegame) instead of that of the replacement so a user can still go hunt for the original GRF if needed.
09:19:15  <Darkvater> peter1138: I think I'll revert this change as it's confusing and the savegame is saved with a grf-md5sum that wasn't used
09:20:32  <Darkvater> we might need some 'debug' button (as ttdp) have to print out the current grf list and/or give the list saved with the savegame
09:20:59  <Darkvater> cause if you're missing some or have incompatible grfs all you see is their name/grfid
09:22:36  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Perhaps a force-load option
09:22:41  * Darkvater reads back..was that just me talking all alone for the last 5 minutes
09:22:50  <Brianetta> which skips the MD5 check
09:22:52  <Darkvater> Brianetta: it always loads savegames now, albeit with a warning
09:23:00  <Brianetta> ah, cool
09:23:10  <Brianetta> 0.5 doesn't at all (:
09:23:18  <Darkvater> that is incorrect
09:23:23  <Darkvater> 0.5 RC3 doesn't at all
09:23:28  <Brianetta> ooh
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09:23:43  <Brianetta> Is there a timescale for a new candidate?
09:23:46  <Darkvater> however this makes it a bit more difficult to go hunt for the exactly matching grf files
09:24:06  <Darkvater> well I think we all did great work, so I'll start backporting once home
09:24:17  <Brianetta> Right
09:24:18  <Darkvater> depending on what time I have tonight, or tomorrow right
09:24:24  <Darkvater> s/right/night
09:24:29  <Brianetta> So, next gameon my server could be the last at this revision
09:24:49  <Rubidium> Brianetta: has your server experienced more desyncs (or experienced them earlier in the game) when you had loaded a specific combination of newgrfs?
09:25:06  <Darkvater> I just hope no other serious faults are found/exist to have RC4 be the last
09:25:18  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Hard to say, since I almost always load the same set.
09:25:27  <Darkvater> you switched train-sets
09:25:31  <Brianetta> I did
09:25:33  <Darkvater> ukrs / nars
09:25:33  <Brianetta> and will tonight
09:25:52  <Brianetta> The NARS game didn't desync, but neither did any RC3 game until last night
09:26:06  <Brianetta> and I'm on the fourth
09:26:28  <Brianetta> sorry, it wasn't NARS, it was usset
09:27:04  <Darkvater> :O I thought you picked NARS since it has sounds ;)
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09:27:17  <Brianetta> In all cases, the game desyncs new players very aggresively, then eventually stops doing so.
09:27:28  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I have replaced usset with NARS for all future games
09:27:42  <Brianetta> I used NARS because it was GPL and needed no research
09:27:48  <Brianetta> usset, damnit
09:27:53  <Brianetta> I used usset because it was GPL and needed no research
09:27:53  <Darkvater> ah
09:28:04  <Darkvater> and pikka gave you permission?
09:28:10  <Rubidium> Brianetta: that might be caused by some difference in the cached values for vehicles and such
09:28:12  <Brianetta> but I spoke to Pikka, and he said NARS was way better, nigh-on perfect, etc
09:28:25  <Darkvater> lol
09:28:53  <Darkvater> Rubidium: hmm, that's some bad cache then if recalculating it on load does not result in the same values as ingame
09:29:37  <Rubidium> yeah, but basically all vehicle variables that are not saved are suspect
09:29:53  <Darkvater> that's true
09:30:11  <Brianetta> Need a secondary path for info
09:30:21  <Brianetta> after the save, then send cache info
09:30:41  <Darkvater> the point of the cache is that it can be fully reconstructed on load
09:30:47  <Darkvater> if it weren't then it would be saved
09:30:54  <Brianetta> hmm
09:30:55  <Brianetta> (:
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09:31:04  <Rubidium> Brianetta: any idea whether somebody was autoreplacing at the moment of the desyncs?
09:31:20  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Highly likely, as one of the players was asking me how to do it
09:31:37  <Brianetta> road vehicles
09:32:55  <Rubidium> ok, I really start to suspect autoreplacing
09:33:11  <Brianetta> I love the way that DaleStan comes down like a tonne of very pedantic bricks on anybody who says they have version 5.0 of openttd
09:33:25  <Darkvater> the player settings are supposedly synced on join
09:33:26  <Rubidium> leave_depot_instantly <- that variable is never set to something on load
09:33:48  <Rubidium> Darkvater: yes, but 'NOSAVE' variables of vehicles are not synced on join
09:34:24  <Darkvater> I think I asked bjarni about that once and he said it was really a no-care...but you know.. it's bjarni
09:34:52  <Rubidium> so you join and for the server/older players the vehicle leaves the depot immediatelly and for the new players it could be that the vehicle stays in the depot
09:36:36  <Darkvater> that is a possibility if you join just at the right time
09:37:17  <Rubidium> but with dozens and dozens of vehicles replacing
09:37:20  <Darkvater> << the cat's out of the bag
09:37:49  <Darkvater> all this fuss about WTF OMGZ I CAN'T READ SVEGAME FORMAT IN NOTEPAD boils down to editing the map with playres in the scenario editor
09:38:50  <Brianetta> Darkvater: DaleStan ahs a goo dpoint about scenarios and companies
09:40:07  <Darkvater> yes, it was meant to be a discussion point whether to allow this or not; or just load the game and add 'reset player stuff' in there
09:40:15  <Darkvater> but it got in the backburner a bit
09:40:24  <Darkvater> the original reason for doing this was to prevent cheating
09:40:28  <Brianetta> I'd like scenarios with companies
09:40:38  <Brianetta> "This conpany underperforms.  Help it to beat the other company."
09:40:52  <Brianetta> A scenario, ultimately, should be reworked to have goals, too
09:40:59  <Brianetta> at the option of the author
09:41:35  <Brianetta> and if you manage to slip a "build lock" button into 0.5's scenario editor, I'd be really grateful
09:42:03  <Brianetta> a scenario with working canal networks isn't feasible atm
09:42:55  <Brianetta> Ooh, it's late
09:42:58  <Brianetta> I have to go to work
09:43:02  <Darkvater> :)
09:43:02  <Brianetta> biab
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09:59:18  <valcalculus> Brianetta!
09:59:19  <peter1138> back
09:59:32  <peter1138> yes, the cache rail variables are now majorly dependent on newgrf
09:59:49  <peter1138> so it's possible to return different values at different states
10:00:22  <peter1138> solution is to save, or make the server recalculate when it saves the network gmae
10:00:47  <Rubidium> first one should check whether that happens
10:01:19  <peter1138> it's almost certainly possible
10:01:31  <peter1138> might not be what's causing the issues though
10:01:53  <Darkvater> peter1138: what do you mean 'server should recalculate'. Doesn't the server have already the up-to-date values? Or you mean "reset" after save so it has the same as the clients
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10:02:11  <peter1138> recalculate/reset, same difference
10:02:18  <Darkvater> but it's not possible for joined clients to achieve the same rail-cache state as the server just by going through afterloadgame?
10:02:24  <peter1138> no
10:02:38  <peter1138> because, say, the server did the updates at different times, in depots etc
10:02:56  <peter1138> the client will be doing them at a later point (obviously)
10:03:08  <Rubidium> the cached variables look fairly safe though
10:03:16  <peter1138> "look", yes
10:03:27  <peter1138> it's unlikely any set would return different values for it
10:03:30  <Darkvater> those values are also input for other states no? Not only output
10:03:31  <peter1138> but it is possible
10:03:39  <peter1138> hmm?
10:03:49  <Darkvater> eg decisions are based on their vaue
10:03:51  <Darkvater> +l
10:04:13  <peter1138> certainly
10:04:14  <Darkvater> because then, as you said, they should either be saved or recalc-d by server on save
10:04:16  <peter1138> that's why they exist
10:04:31  <peter1138> the alternative is to not cache at all
10:04:38  <peter1138> but that would probably hurt performance a lot
10:04:47  <Darkvater> I'd vote for save than as it's less kludgy then if (_networking&&_network_server) recalc
10:05:00  <peter1138> *nod*
10:05:05  <Rubidium> peter1138: the more I look at leave_depot_instantly the worse it becomes
10:05:09  <Darkvater> oh which reminds me; have you committed spritecache 1MB > 2MB?
10:05:15  <peter1138> Rubidium: i couldn't figure that one out
10:05:20  <peter1138> Darkvater: no
10:05:43  <peter1138> i was wondering about making it configurable, heh
10:05:48  <peter1138> but probably not needed
10:06:05  <peter1138> if someone needed it smaller for a small machine the define can be changed back, heh
10:06:31  <Darkvater> for porting ;)
10:06:38  <peter1138> ya
10:06:50  <Darkvater> -DSPRITECACHE_SIZE
10:06:50  <Darkvater> ;p
10:08:05  <peter1138> heh
10:08:12  <peter1138> SPRITE_CACHE_SIZE i think ;p
10:08:22  <peter1138> #ifndef SPRITE_CACHE_SIZE... hmm
10:08:40  <Darkvater> #ifndef spri_size #define spri-size 1<<21
10:08:57  <peter1138> what to do with this sergej guy?
10:09:08  * Darkvater had to get calc to get the binary of 2MB
10:09:31  <Darkvater> peter1138: have you checked the Private Area? There's a thread about it, but I can't reach it atm
10:10:03  <peter1138> there was a thread about the stuff on grfcrawler
10:10:10  * peter1138 checks
10:10:23  <peter1138> ah
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10:11:17  <Darkvater> I should write him a PM after lunch I think and close the thread until he gives satisfactory answer(s)
10:11:36  <peter1138> hmm
10:11:42  <peter1138> i was going to move it now ;(
10:11:54  <peter1138> move it, let him explain himself
10:12:14  <Darkvater> perhaps nicer to give mod-reply, close thread
10:12:48  <peter1138> he's a fuckwit, no need to be nice
10:13:40  <Darkvater> he's russian, don't think they know too much about copyright
10:16:47  <Darkvater> I must say though, Quark did a much more efficient implementation of 'unlimited' sprites
10:16:50  * Darkvater hides
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10:18:49  <Darkvater> 2 lines vs 640KB diff; who's the better coder now, eh? ^^
10:20:18  <setrodox> DaleStan, did quark just try to change a constant for that, without any additional code?
10:20:21  <setrodox> erm
10:20:23  <setrodox> Darkvater,
10:20:33  <setrodox> damn tab completion
10:20:44  <Darkvater> yes he did
10:21:46  <setrodox> did you give him the standard "there's a reason why they are called constants" talk? :D
10:22:22  <Darkvater> I think Dalestan did; and peter as well
10:22:37  <setrodox> ah, ok
10:25:18  <peter1138> Darkvater: yeah, sorry about that
10:25:54  *** ChrisM87 [] has joined #openttd
10:26:15  <peter1138> the real change was only 2 lines
10:26:17  <peter1138> the rest was an accidental commit
10:26:41  <peter1138> heh, and wolf01 updated his patch but used int32 img o_O
10:26:44  <Darkvater> hmm, I'll let it slip this once
10:26:49  <Darkvater> but don't do it anymore
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10:27:42  <peter1138> hmm, so, longvehicles, dbsetxl and newstatsw all load together now
10:27:48  <peter1138> longvehicles still looks shit though
10:27:53  <peter1138> and it needs some newcargo support
10:28:00  <Rubidium> peter1138: do you know a GRF that uses the vehicle depot trigger?
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10:28:28  <peter1138> not off the top of my head
10:28:31  <peter1138> DaleStan might
10:29:00  <Darkvater> wb blathijs, KUDr
10:29:37  <blathijs> Bah. Something rebooted my machine, just as it was trying to wake me up with music...
10:30:05  <peter1138> so that's your excuse for oversleeping...
10:30:26  <blathijs> yup
10:30:57  <blathijs> Should have woke up at 7.00, but I did not do so until 9.00 (thinking, why do I feel so awake? Can't be right...)
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10:36:41  <Brianetta> valcalculus: What?
10:38:41  <Brianetta> Col screenshot on the webcam
10:38:44  <Brianetta> a plane crash
10:39:47  <peter1138> heh
10:40:03  <peter1138> hmm, and a bug
10:42:56  <peter1138> or maybe it did that anyway
10:44:43  <peter1138> oh, it did that anyway
10:48:47  <valcalculus> Brianetta: I'm looking for cheap hosting of a website and a few mailing list adn mail redirects - would you happen to know a good address for that?
10:53:42  <Darkvater> peter1138: what bug?
10:53:55  <Darkvater> did anyone see the very important bug I fixed yesterday?
10:54:02  <Darkvater> the attack helicopter one? ^^
10:54:56  <ThePizzaKing> :o I reported that one
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11:03:38  <peter1138> Darkvater: i thought it was a coloured newspaper bug
11:03:44  <peter1138> but it turns out it's supposed to be darker
11:04:17  <Darkvater> ah
11:06:31  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
11:06:42  <Darkvater> hi Purno
11:06:47  <Purno> hi DV
11:07:39  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
11:07:56  <Darkvater> hi Belugas
11:20:32  <Brianetta> valcalculus: um... no
11:21:09  <Brianetta> valcalculus: I don't need services like that (I own a server of my own) so I don't know what the state of the market even is.
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12:04:35  <Rubidium> Brianetta: what savegame from is the one that desynced yesterday?
12:05:02  <Brianetta> Rubidium: The game is still running
12:05:08  <Brianetta> no save on the website yet
12:05:12  <Brianetta> and the desyncs have stopped
12:05:43  <Rubidium> I would really like to have a save from a few months before the desyncs happen :)
12:05:47  <Brianetta> but I have a save from the moment the autopilot saw "has joined the game" for every desync
12:05:59  <Brianetta> if I can csroll back in IRC far enough to see when that happened.
12:06:33  <Brianetta> 23:23 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error)
12:06:33  <Brianetta> 23:24 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error)
12:06:35  <Brianetta> It was then
12:06:38  <Brianetta> two secs
12:07:16  <Rubidium> the savegame from the join previous to all the desyncs would probably be a good starting point
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12:08:09  <Brianetta> Rubidium: On the site, join*.sav
12:08:17  <Brianetta> the hex is the UNIX date
12:08:31  <Brianetta> so sorted ascii, they are in chonological order
12:08:39  <Brianetta> the first is from a couple of hours before
12:08:45  <Brianetta> the next three are my three desyncs
12:09:00  <Brianetta> which happened within 2 minutes
12:11:03  <Brianetta> Aditionally, Devil desynced twice this morning
12:11:19  <Brianetta> and his first join attempt was about an hour after the one before
12:11:59  <peter1138> maybe they've got the wrong newgrfs!
12:12:11  <Brianetta> peter1138: er.
12:12:34  <roboboy> whats the current date
12:12:55  <Brianetta> on my server, 5th of November, 2039
12:12:59  <Brianetta> Bonfire night
12:13:04  <Brianetta> except there's no night in OpenTTD
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12:14:58  <alfons_winkel> Hello all. I was wondering whether there are any plans for OpenTTD to go 3d sometime in the future? I've been searching through the forums to find anything related to that. But apart from a thread where someone wrote, that this topic has come up a couple of times, I wasn't able to find anything else. Although searching for 'openttd 3d' gives numerous results all of them don't seem to be related to what i'm looking for. I guess you
12:15:09  <Rubidium> hmm, loading the savegame gives me:
12:15:17  <Rubidium> (in my own semi-debug version)
12:15:18  <Rubidium> Cache inconsistency of variable cached_power of vehicle 2268 (8200 vs 16400)
12:15:18  <Rubidium> Cache inconsistency of variable cached_max_te of vehicle 2268 (138125 vs 276250)
12:15:28  <Brianetta> My server is disconnecting players on join
12:15:31  <Brianetta> not desync
12:15:33  <Brianetta> "Connection lost"
12:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> they take too long to download the map?
12:16:01  <roboboy> both Brianetta and my self currently
12:16:18  <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause2: Hardly
12:16:34  <Brianetta> We get gut off after the map has loaded
12:16:56  <Brianetta> OK, I'm in
12:16:58  <Brianetta> and connected
12:17:05  <Brianetta> It might have been
12:17:34  <roboboy> i just got the conection lost eror
12:18:28  <Brianetta> roboboy: Spectating?
12:18:38  <roboboy> yep
12:19:15  <alfons_winkel> did anyone read what i posted?
12:20:01  <Brianetta> alfons_winkel: We have no idea.
12:20:09  <Brianetta> Try looking at the read count.
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12:20:19  <Brianetta> roboboy: RC3 has a spectating bug
12:20:24  <roboboy> ok
12:20:27  <alfons_winkel> read count?
12:20:29  <alfons_winkel> where?
12:20:35  <Brianetta> On each topic
12:20:39  <alfons_winkel> in irc?
12:20:50  <alfons_winkel> i didn't post in the forum
12:20:57  <alfons_winkel> i just posted here 4 min. ago
12:21:49  <Brianetta> You don't post to IRC
12:21:51  <Brianetta> you say
12:22:04  <alfons_winkel> ah. sorry ;-)
12:22:11  <Brianetta> and you said more than most people will read
12:22:17  <Brianetta> in short, no, no 3D plan at all.
12:22:27  <alfons_winkel> k. thats all i wanted to know
12:23:17  <Brianetta> Caladan is spectating my game without desyncing
12:23:21  <Brianetta> That's clever
12:23:31  <Brianetta> I had to compile my own RC3 with a bug fix toachieve that
12:23:58  <caladan> yes, im checking
12:24:08  <caladan> ive got normal rc3, without any patches
12:24:28  <caladan> can check with any patch if you need
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12:32:02  <caladan> Brianetta: what's the sever of yours configuration?
12:32:36  <Rubidium> Celestar/peter1138: why is the power and max_te of a vehicle influenced by the CheckSavegameVersion(42) branch in AfterLoadGame?
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12:35:27  <Aracirion_> hi
12:35:39  <alfons_winkel> hi
12:36:10  <Aracirion_> whats up?
12:38:52  <Darkvater> Brianetta: it is irrelevant of the fact if you were spectating or not
12:38:53  <Aracirion_> nobody talking anymore?
12:39:01  <Darkvater> usually linux clients crash; windows just gives garbage
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12:39:44  <alfons_winkel> windows is garbage...
12:40:03  <Digitalfox> alfons_winkel: Why?
12:40:38  <alfons_winkel> nvm
12:40:49  <peter1138> Rubidium: it's not?
12:41:08  <Digitalfox> alfons_winkel: Whats nvm??
12:41:14  <alfons_winkel> nevermind
12:41:20  <peter1138> Rubidium: it's affected by the version 24 change though
12:42:05  <Aracirion_> Ok now that nobody is really talking I might have a go ... in the forum we were discusssing new size relations for 32bit graphix, and I would be very happy if at least one coder could give his opinion
12:42:23  <Aracirion_> It feels so like there's nothing ever going to be done if people just ignore it
12:42:23  <Rubidium> before that CheckSavegameVersion(42) a TrainConsistChanged on all vehicles does not change anything, right after it does.
12:42:51  <Darkvater> Rubidium: cached_power is wrong? I thought that only can change when you buy the vehicle and afterloadgame updates these values
12:42:55  <Brianetta> caladan: hardware?
12:43:17  <caladan> yes
12:43:18  <Rubidium> Darkvater: well, that's what happens when I load the savegame in trunk
12:43:26  <Brianetta> Heh, one player on my server sold all 49 ships, leaving only 6 belongong to competitors
12:43:33  <Brianetta> CPU use fell from over 80% to under 40%
12:43:34  <Rubidium> have not reproduced a cache-mismatch in 0.5.0-RC3
12:43:44  <Brianetta> caladan: P4 1800, 512MiB RAM
12:43:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: the power can change on every tile
12:43:51  <Brianetta> 100Mpbs network
12:43:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: it changes when a mixed type (diesel & electric) train moves
12:44:04  <peter1138> if it switches from elrail to normal rail, for example
12:44:31  <peter1138> Rubidium: what data gets changed?
12:44:48  <Rubidium> max_te and max_power
12:45:06  <Darkvater> ah
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12:45:14  <peter1138> perhaps there's an incorrect railtype returned somewhere
12:45:28  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: the 32bpp branch is not really going anywhere at the moment it seems
12:46:40  <Aracirion_> member:Darkvater: Does this mean its unsure if anything's going to be implemented?
12:46:52  <peter1138> member?
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12:47:37  <Aracirion_> peter1138: I dragged his name from the chat window instead of typing and the irc app wrote membor not me
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12:48:24  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: does this mean its uncertain if anything's going to be implemented in terms of new gfx?
12:49:07  <Darkvater> yes, it still remains uncertain. 32bpp is still in a wip status
12:49:20  <Darkvater> even after it's done the size relations will remain the same as for current 8bpp graphics
12:49:35  <Aracirion_> yeah thats why I was asking in that post
12:49:48  <Darkvater> going bigger (tiles, changing relations, whatelse) is really just theoretic atm
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12:50:05  <Aracirion_> becuase if size relations are never going to be changed, the gfx should have a slightly different approach
12:50:35  <Darkvater> never is never, but looking at the current state I think it's pretty far off right now
12:50:52  <Aracirion_> and would you still go on modelling to scale?
12:51:17  <Aracirion_> because as I said, a system could be worked out to create the cartoon style of the original
12:51:30  <Darkvater> "still go on modelling to scale" ?
12:51:37  <Aracirion_> that would probably look better than modeling to scale and then shrinking
12:52:15  <Aracirion_> well the current way we are creating 32bit sprites modelling with real-worlds sizes
12:52:22  <Aracirion_> 1metre = 1 metre
12:52:40  <Aracirion_> the idea is that then things are shrunk to meet the current sizes
12:53:51  <Aracirion_> but if different size relations will never be done with 90% certainty that's much more work and probably looks less good than modelling for a cartoon style from the start
12:54:03  <Darkvater> that won't really work unless you scale some objects more/less than others
12:54:11  <Darkvater> eg airplanes/busses houses/airports
12:54:23  <Aracirion_> yeah that was the idea
12:55:07  <Aracirion_> as of now, for most buildings one tile would be 12,5m
12:55:09  <Darkvater> and, I think I am safe to say, about 80% of the users play (O)TTD for the nostalgic feeling back then; changing graphic styles is therefore a very sensitive matter
12:55:44  <Aracirion_> in the poll we had about 75% wanting different sizes
12:55:56  <Aracirion_> with 87 votes
12:56:08  <Aracirion_> only 22 wanted to keep sizes the way they are now
12:56:24  <Darkvater> 87 votes against a download count of 100.000+
12:56:30  <caladan> but the game would be what it is now with change of graphics...
12:56:55  <Aracirion_> but then making new gfx 32bit is pointles anyway
12:57:01  <Aracirion_> because it will look very different
12:57:03  <Darkvater> hardly a significant representation
12:57:25  <Aracirion_> and nostalgia also requires pixellated graphics
12:57:28  <peter1138> if it looks anything like simutrans then i don't want it :)
12:57:33  <Darkvater> not really. Look at AV8 (newgrf airplane set for TTD)
12:57:51  <Darkvater> it's 3D rendered in 32bpp then rescaled to fit. It looks good and still has the TTD feel
12:57:55  <Aracirion_> well I like av8 a lot but i also would favour different size relations
12:58:11  <peter1138> rescaled and also touched up by hand massively
12:58:32  <Darkvater> cause really...simutrans might be a great game, but it's graphics are so damn ugly I'd never play it
12:58:43  <Darkvater> yes, even the new 128bpp tileset
12:58:48  <Darkvater> ok not ugly...just not fitting
12:58:51  <peter1138> it's slow too, heh
12:58:53  <peter1138> 128bpp? heh
12:58:55  <Darkvater> or look at locomotion
12:58:57  <Aracirion_> did u ever have a look at the 32bit gfx being developed?
12:58:57  <Darkvater> *shudder*
12:59:02  <caladan> hu, locomotion :/
12:59:26  <peter1138> locomotion is of course 8bpp
12:59:37  <caladan> but it's ugly anyway :D
13:00:00  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: yes, I've looked over the thread. Really, really stunning models were in there. I think it'd look great (ok different, not TTD) as a full replacement for 32bpp ottd
13:00:10  * Brianetta eats a hot steak pasty
13:00:44  <Aracirion_> the problem with the bigger resolution is that you will notice much better how weird scales are
13:00:47  <Aracirion_>
13:00:51  <Aracirion_> thats a mockup I made
13:00:52  <Darkvater> but, as I don't think two different size-relationships will be developed for the same game unless someone forks openttd and goes a seperate way it needs the same relationships
13:01:00  <Darkvater> do I dare look at it? ;)
13:01:02  <Aracirion_> no definite textures, just for scale
13:01:08  <Darkvater> that _pathetic_ part is not really encouraging
13:01:18  <Aracirion_> :)
13:01:20  <Darkvater> alltaken has done some really nice farm-fields
13:01:29  <peter1138> hmm
13:01:32  <peter1138> that fills my monitor
13:01:39  <peter1138> that's not really a good thing
13:01:48  <Aracirion_> its just the new tile-size
13:01:59  <Aracirion_> you can of course zoom out
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13:02:15  <peter1138> Darkvater: looks like it'd more than 2MB... heh
13:02:42  <Aracirion_> compare the size of the plane to the bulidings
13:02:45  <Darkvater> -DSPRITE_CACHE_SIZE 1<<25
13:03:12  <peter1138> even that probably wouldn't be enough
13:03:26  <peter1138> 4* tile size?
13:03:49  <Aracirion_> 4x tile size yeah
13:03:58  <peter1138> so for 32 bpp, 4 * tiles
13:03:59  <Darkvater> 64x64 I think it was
13:04:14  <peter1138> 64MB would be equivalent to the current 1MB cache
13:04:31  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: yes, it looks more to scale...but loses the original feel at once
13:04:42  <peter1138> it's not to scale, though
13:04:56  <Darkvater> forget the runway ;p
13:04:57  <peter1138> look at the door of the building, heh
13:05:02  <Darkvater> hehe
13:05:02  <peter1138> and forgetting the planes
13:05:12  <peter1138> and the hangar
13:05:28  <Darkvater> they RC-planes
13:05:35  <peter1138> ahh
13:06:00  <Aracirion_> some time ago I was putting some test images together how different size relations could look
13:06:01  <Aracirion_>
13:06:44  * Darkvater likes that pic :)
13:06:56  <Aracirion_> compare that with the pathetic airport
13:07:06  <Aracirion_> plane vs. building
13:07:20  <Darkvater> but once you try to go to the realistic side; you're screwed and size-relations-mistakes become so much more apparent
13:07:38  <Darkvater> in your testcity screen the runway is *way* too short
13:07:46  <Aracirion_> yeah
13:08:05  <Darkvater> and things will get bigger, and bigger and bigger
13:08:17  <Darkvater> and in the end your 2048x2048 world map ends up a single city
13:08:48  <Aracirion_> well, I think if cities were a little bigger that wouldn't be too bad, after all maps are much bigger than they were
13:10:03  <Brianetta> We need a V2 mail delivery system in OpenTTD
13:10:12  <Brianetta> a V2 rocket, launched from an airport helipad
13:10:13  <Celestar> Aracirion_: there is a simple rule
13:10:16  <Brianetta> lands nose-first on another
13:10:20  <roboboy> gnight
13:10:23  * roboboy is away:
13:10:31  *** roboboy is now known as robobed
13:10:35  <Digitalfox> I use tortoise to svn in windows, but alfons_winkel  uses Mac, what SVN browser can he use??
13:10:38  <Celestar> Aracirion_: a tile is: 50m for normal stuff, 500m for airports and 5000m for distances :)
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13:11:20  <Aracirion_> Celestar: something like that was proposed, but it requires a totally different approach to modelling than is done now
13:11:22  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: google it. There's a graphical svn client for OSX. Or just use the cli
13:11:27  <Aracirion_> thats why I am bringing this up
13:11:36  <peter1138> Brianetta: you could emulate one with a helicopter :)
13:11:45  <Darkvater> harrier!
13:11:51  <Brianetta> peter1138: Ballistic flightpath and all?
13:11:58  <Brianetta> Harrier would be LOL
13:12:02  <Brianetta> 1 unit of valuables
13:12:03  <Biff> Digitalfox: os x can run the cli svn client
13:12:21  <Biff> should be able to atleast
13:12:54  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: don't want to hurt anybody but if I look at the curren state and development: 32bpp with same size relations as TTD: highly likely to get working soon (as 32bpp branch is finished); 32bpp in any other size relationship: _long_ way off
13:14:00  <Brianetta> Size relationship - is that a global scale, or is it the scale between (for example) road and rails?
13:14:04  <Celestar> Aracirion_: you cannot do it with realistic sizes.
13:14:17  <Aracirion_> so what would you tell people doing Graphics: To work out a system of size relations that works with current sizes, or to model in realistic scales and resize?
13:14:33  <Darkvater> Brianetta: scale as it is now
13:14:34  <Celestar> Aracirion_: a runway needs to be 4000m. so if you make it 20 tiles long, one tile is STILL 200m, and thus basically holds an 8-car train.
13:15:02  <Celestar> and this very runway would be 1/3rd of a tile in length
13:15:10  <Celestar> or, if you wanna go for the 50m...
13:15:12  <Aracirion_> Personally I would prefer having vehicles at realistic scales, but things like runways etc. all smaller
13:15:19  <Celestar> one runway is 80 tiles long
13:15:37  <Celestar> that'S why the 50/500/5000 approach works rather well
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13:16:14  <Aracirion_> Celestar: so you like the pathetic airport?
13:16:18  <Brianetta> I'd like to see rails squeezed two-to-a-tile, but not necessarily have that tied to 32bpp
13:16:43  <Celestar> Aracirion_: it could be a tad bigger
13:16:51  <peter1138> that defeats a tile being the base unit
13:17:11  <Celestar> like about 5 tiles longer and 3 tiles wider so that larger aircraft do not spill onto the runway.
13:17:14  <peter1138> and thus isn't going to happne
13:17:26  <Celestar> peter1138: you have two rails per tile in horiz and vert directions ...
13:17:50  <peter1138> shush
13:17:51  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: I think all objects by themselves are to scale (with themselves). Just their relational scale is different. I'm no gfx artist so i can't tell you which one rescaled will look best
13:18:19  <Celestar> Aracirion_: to give you an example.
13:18:39  <Celestar> if you have a 50mx50m tile, than this thing almost fills a 256x256 tile map:
13:18:41  <Celestar>
13:19:11  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: that won't work. that way, a railcar would either be way to long or way too narrow. like in the original, a railcar has to be wider but shorter
13:19:26  <Celestar> Darkvater: they are not, planes are often too small in relation, let alone ships.
13:19:31  <Celestar> Darkvater: but I agree that they should be larger.
13:19:42  <Aracirion_> Celestar: nobody is talking about realistic airport sizes!
13:19:49  <Celestar> a ship should be about 2-6 tiles in length.
13:19:51  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: ah sorry, you're right about that. I was thinking of buildings only
13:19:58  <Celestar> Aracirion_: good :)
13:20:14  <peter1138> well
13:20:19  <Celestar> so, for all objects apart from airports/runways, 50 meters a tile is a good dimension
13:20:26  <peter1138> at least we won't run out of sprite ids for the extra angles now...
13:20:31  <Celestar> airports should be scaled by a factor of 10.
13:20:37  <Celestar> and distances by another factor of 10
13:21:04  <Darkvater> peter1138: :)
13:21:05  <Aracirion_> Celestar: with 50m / tile you could hardly make out your train because it is so narrow !!!
13:21:17  <Aracirion_> a train is about 2m wide
13:21:31  <Aracirion_> Original size relations HAVE to be cartoon style
13:22:18  <Celestar> Aracirion_: a train is about 3 meters wide
13:22:30  <Aracirion_> Celestar: big diffference
13:22:35  <Celestar> Aracirion_: ok make it 30meters.
13:22:37  <Aracirion_> 3 pixels instead of 2
13:22:38  <Celestar> or 32
13:22:49  <Darkvater> yeah. You can't have size relations without changing the entire game. Just look at trains and curves..A single curve could fill up a 64x64 map
13:23:00  <Celestar> Aracirion_: just add another zoom level :)
13:23:11  <Celestar> Aracirion_: what tile size would you suggest?
13:23:24  <Celestar> Aracirion_: a normal train carriage is 26.4m
13:23:31  <Aracirion_> Celestar: Currently people are working for 12,5n tiles
13:23:46  <Celestar> Aracirion_: that means one train carriage is 2 tiles long?!
13:23:54  <Aracirion_> personally I would consider going 25m
13:24:06  <Brianetta> Celestar: All train carriages are half their own length, always have been
13:24:16  <Celestar> Brianetta: we're talking about changing that :P
13:24:24  <Brianetta> So yes, two tiles long
13:24:25  <Celestar> I think the food cars are 27.0m
13:24:28  <Aracirion_> Celestar: thats why entirely realistic is not possible
13:24:36  <Celestar> Aracirion_: so 25m is an option
13:24:39  <Darkvater> if you start changing train sizes you have to change building sizes (a single carriage bigger than a small town?), then you have to fix the roadvehicles as well, etc. etc. etc.
13:24:58  <Celestar> 25m is doable without distorting stuff tooo much
13:24:59  <peter1138> george!
13:25:00  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Compare any train wagon to a TTD beach (:
13:25:19  <Aracirion_> what I would propose is above all that everything should be consistent with a certain size of people
13:25:22  <Celestar> with 25m, an aircraft could be up to 3 tiles in legnth and width.
13:25:31  <Darkvater> peope are 2x1 pixel
13:25:38  <Darkvater> or was it 3x2?
13:25:45  * Celestar agreed with 2x1 pixels :)
13:25:45  <Darkvater> MB's newstations
13:25:54  <Darkvater> I think he even copyrighted that ;p
13:26:21  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: thats in the original gfx, and thats why it doesn t matter there! In the new zoom levels people will be visible theoretically, thats why it will look much stranger if things don't fit with eachother
13:26:43  <Darkvater> ?
13:26:43  <Celestar> Aracirion_: what's the goal?
13:26:52  <Darkvater> you can't change size-relations with an additional zoom-level
13:27:20  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: ?
13:27:35  <Brianetta> You can
13:27:40  <Brianetta> zoom out to see your plane
13:27:44  <Brianetta> zoom in to see your truck
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13:27:55  <Brianetta> zoom way out to see your oil tanker
13:27:57  <Celestar> but the relation stays the same :)
13:28:04  <Brianetta> nah
13:28:14  <Darkvater> so in lvl1 I have a truck being half the size of my plane, and then I zoom in and suddenly the plane is 4 times as big as my truck?
13:28:18  <peter1138> newstations is 3x2, i think, so you can see them
13:28:23  <peter1138> else people look like fence posts
13:28:36  <Celestar> so 3x2?
13:28:38  <Aracirion_> Celestar: currently people are making graphics (especilly buildings) with 1tile=12,5m in mind
13:28:51  <Celestar> a person is closed to square?
13:28:58  <peter1138> 12.5? hmm
13:29:01  <Celestar> Aracirion_: well that can be halved easily
13:29:06  <Celestar> Aracirion_: it'd vote for 25m
13:29:10  <Darkvater> Celestar: they're americanski
13:29:17  <peter1138> maybe 4x2 then, i dunno
13:29:22  <Aracirion_> Celestar: not easily, because then all the windows are double size
13:29:50  <Celestar> <= the "town" right above the airport has almost 50.000 inhabitants
13:30:48  <Brianetta> That airport-town ratio is about what I see onmy server
13:30:52  <Celestar> Aracirion_: again 12.5 meters is not too good an idea. if rail vehicles become bigger than one tile, things get ugly in the code methinks
13:31:03  <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, it's not very unrealsitc.
13:31:10  <peter1138> heh
13:31:23  <peter1138> i like the way the engine is in focus... and so is the ground
13:31:25  <Brianetta> As I read that, there was a bit flip-flopping in my brain
13:31:43  <Brianetta> peter1138: Plenty of light
13:31:48  <Brianetta> Practically a pinhole focus
13:31:51  <peter1138> *nod*
13:31:57  <Aracirion_> Celestar: if you would want 25m you should post in the forum
13:32:00  <Celestar> Aracirion_: what *is* wrong with 25m ?
13:32:07  <Aracirion_> currently people are modeling at this scale:
13:32:26  <Darkvater> nice pic
13:32:28  <Aracirion_> Celestar: I don't say theres anything wrong with it, I even say I'd consider it!
13:32:42  <Aracirion_> the problem is that people are modellign for 12,5 right now
13:32:43  <Darkvater> both
13:32:54  <Celestar> Aracirion_: nice pic, but one might consider putting 4 of those houses onto one tile.
13:32:56  <Brianetta> 12,5 was decided upon way back, in that forum
13:32:58  <stillunknown> anyone knows how to make a prototype for a class?
13:33:09  <Brianetta> People went out and measured the roads outside their houses and all sorts
13:33:18  <peter1138> looks fine at 25% ;)
13:33:21  <Aracirion_> Celestar: yeah if tiles were 25m then that would change the approach we take on modelling!
13:33:30  <Celestar> a highway lane is 3.5 meters wide
13:33:37  <Celestar> I don't need to measure that :P
13:33:49  <peter1138> metres!
13:33:49  <Aracirion_> yeah 12,5 m seems ideal for roads
13:33:53  <Brianetta> Celestar: In Germany, perhaps
13:33:54  <Darkvater> it's 2m
13:33:58  <Darkvater> if roadworks are active
13:33:59  <Brianetta> It's between 2 and 4 here
13:34:10  <Celestar> Brianetta: well, normally 3.5m
13:34:17  <Celestar> Brianetta: sometimes 3.2 or something
13:34:19  <Aracirion_> 50m tiles will have weird empty space between buildings
13:34:32  <Aracirion_> in cities
13:34:39  <Celestar> Aracirion_: give link to post :)
13:34:51  <stillunknown> anyone knows how to make a prototype for a class?
13:34:58  <Aracirion_>
13:35:00  <Celestar> Aracirion_: how many tiles should a mid-sized town be?
13:35:07  <Brianetta> Trains probably won't have the correct length:width ratio
13:35:15  <Brianetta> trains are really long and thin
13:35:15  <Aracirion_> Celestar: dunno
13:35:22  <Brianetta> and aren't really long and thin in the game
13:35:31  <caladan> stillunknown: class name;
13:35:42  <caladan> it should work
13:35:46  <stillunknown> but then it will complain certain functions don't exist
13:35:48  <Aracirion_> Celestar: personally I would opt for a 12,5m tile size but have more things occupying several tiles
13:36:03  <Celestar> Aracirion_: about the economy, don't change it. :)
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13:36:07  <Sacro> peter1138: pign
13:36:09  <peter1138> pong
13:36:10  <Aracirion_> Brianetta: what about 1 traincar/tile
13:36:16  <caladan> you got that in .h?
13:36:20  <Brianetta> Aracirion_: What about it?
13:36:20  <Sacro> peter1138: topic requested locking in openttd graphics
13:36:25  <stillunknown> caladan: i want a forward declaration for a header file
13:36:30  <peter1138> yes, not that locking would do any good
13:36:31  <Aracirion_> Brianetta: I thought it might look good
13:36:39  <Celestar> Aracirion_: long passenger wagons yes, shorter ones not :)
13:36:43  <Sacro> peter1138: well... its breach of copywrite
13:36:52  <peter1138> and locking doesn't change that
13:36:55  <Brianetta> In real-life proportion, you need at least four coaches side by side to make a square
13:37:03  <Aracirion_> Celestar: yeah
13:37:04  <Sacro> peter1138: hmm... maybe not
13:37:12  <Celestar> Brianetta: 4?
13:37:21  <peter1138> i would move it, but Darkvater said he was going to send something about it
13:37:24  <Brianetta> Celestar: on adjacent tracks
13:37:25  <Celestar> in GErmany, track-to-track spacing is 3.6m iirc
13:37:35  <Aracirion_> Brianetta: I made 1-tile traincars in my scale mockup
13:37:35  <Celestar> so 25 meters is somewhere near 8 tracks
13:37:36  <caladan> stillunknown: I don't get it really
13:37:42  <Sacro> peter1138: hmm... he needs to be talked to in russian, i dont think his english is too good
13:38:09  <stillunknown> foo.cpp contains a class, foo.hpp will be included in bar.cpp, which needs to acces the class in foo.cpp
13:38:14  <Darkvater> oh yes, I need to login and write something
13:38:56  <caladan> stillunknown: ok, so you have full prototype in .hpp
13:39:02  <peter1138> hehe
13:39:05  <caladan> with all methods
13:39:13  <peter1138> 12.5 m tiles makes a 2048x2048 map 25 km across :P
13:39:15  <Celestar> <= nice
13:39:15  <stillunknown> caladan: is that neccesary?
13:39:37  <caladan> that's how you do things like that
13:39:43  <Celestar> Brianetta: a standard-sized platform has afaik 7.2 meters between adjacent tracks with the platform in between.
13:39:45  <peter1138> stillunknown: yeah, it's not c# :)
13:39:50  <caladan> .hpp holds class prototype
13:40:01  <caladan> and .cpp holds bodies of functions
13:40:15  <Aracirion_> Celestar: I posted some pics to show size relations earlier in the post
13:40:19  <Aracirion_> thread i mean
13:40:20  <Brianetta> Celestar: In the UK it's usually more ocmmon to have two platforms facing, with track between at the regular spacing
13:40:39  <stillunknown> peter1138: never used c#
13:41:02  <Aracirion_> Celestar:
13:41:23  <Darkvater> he, they're changing the airco just above me
13:41:25  <Celestar> Brianetta: it depends, that is done here too, but the line throu my hometown is 4 tracks, so |||P|
13:41:29  * Darkvater moves out to safety
13:41:49  <Celestar> Aracirion_: already reading
13:42:21  <Aracirion_> I have to go have a shower, ill be back in 20 min or so
13:42:29  <Celestar> "
13:42:29  <Celestar> "And maps have to become larger anytime soon!
13:42:29  <Celestar> 2048 is not enough as it is now thats for sure.
13:42:30  <Celestar> Im thinking ATLEAST 8192x8192 (4 times bigger than max now) "
13:42:32  <Celestar> WTF?
13:42:54  <Celestar> people really need to GET A LIFE
13:42:55  <Aracirion_> Celestar: what? (bigger maps would be nice)
13:43:09  <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2k x 2k is the limit of what we can do.
13:43:31  <Celestar> a full 2k x 2k map gets my FX-57 near something like 100% load
13:44:03  <Aracirion_> Celestar: couldn't empty tiles be made to use hardly any resources?
13:44:04  <setrodox> i'm getting to a rather high capacitiy with 500 trains on a 512x512 map already :P
13:44:17  <setrodox> *load
13:44:28  <Celestar> Aracirion_: 1) well ... yes and no, but you still have to walk through them.
13:44:50  <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2) not every function is grateful enough to scale linearily with the map size.
13:44:52  <Aracirion_> maybe bigger maps should also have less industry/towns per square mile
13:44:52  * Brianetta pokes his server with a stick
13:45:23  <Aracirion_> could have quiote big lakes etc
13:45:46  <peter1138> 2048x2048 is plenty for that, imo
13:45:55  <Aracirion_> 2k is not bad yeah
13:46:05  <peter1138> 1024*1024 is pretty massive
13:47:32  <Darkvater> stillunknown: don't you want to use virtual functions for prototype class? Those don't need implementation only decleariont
13:48:01  <Celestar> Aracirion_: if you have a look at a state-of-the-art game, like Civilization IV, it cannot even handle 256x256 maps
13:48:06  <Aracirion_> yeah right I just had a look again, 2k is hardly used is it
13:48:13  <Celestar> Aracirion_: 2048x2048 is 64 times as many tiles.
13:48:28  <Aracirion_> so map size is ok
13:48:32  <stillunknown> Darkvater: you mean: myfunc(int a, int b); in the class
13:48:33  <Aracirion_> :)
13:48:44  <stillunknown> and myclass::myfunc outside?
13:48:51  <setrodox> we had one 2kx2k game on my server once, but we had to cancel it because of the load :P
13:48:55  <Aracirion_> so I think current map sizes would already allow some vehicles to be bigger etc.
13:49:03  <setrodox> though, we had mass amounts of ship on that one ^^
13:50:34  <Darkvater> stillunknown: well donnu what you want to do, but for a pure class prototype you use virtual functions. These functions need to be implemented in inherited classes
13:50:47  <Darkvater> but I think you just wanted class-function declerations
13:51:05  <stillunknown> i'll look into virtual functions
13:51:26  <caladan> stillunknown: if you need help with that i can help :D
13:51:30  <stillunknown> i do have a strange problem
13:52:00  <stillunknown> i put the class in the header file
13:52:17  <stillunknown> and the actual functions (longer than a few lines) outside, in the cpp file, but somehow
13:52:23  <stillunknown> it's not picking those up
13:52:41  <caladan> and how you do write that?
13:52:46  <Darkvater> orudge: ping
13:52:48  <caladan> you must include that .hpp
13:52:52  <stillunknown> i did
13:53:22  <caladan> and got that class::method?
13:53:23  <stillunknown> i can show the code if you want
13:53:24  <orudge> Darkvater
13:53:40  <caladan> show
13:54:08  <stillunknown> header file
13:54:09  <stillunknown>
13:54:34  <stillunknown> cpp file
13:54:35  <stillunknown>
13:54:53  <stillunknown> new_vehicle.[cpp,hpp]
13:55:28  <caladan> you didnt include that .hpp in .cpp
13:55:45  <stillunknown> #include "new_vehicle.hpp"
13:55:45  <caladan> ah, no sorry, it;s there
13:55:57  <caladan> and the error msg is?
13:56:21  <stillunknown>  /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3486: warning: 'void TrainLocoHandler(Vehicle*, bool)' defined but not used
13:56:44  <stillunknown>  /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3552: undefined reference to `Train::Tick()'
13:56:54  <stillunknown> that's a linker error
13:57:01  <stillunknown> and there was one i seem to miss
13:57:43  <stillunknown> just to be sure i did a clean, because i seem to miss one error
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13:58:39  <caladan> and what is the compile command?
13:59:05  <stillunknown>  /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd/trunk/src/new_vehicle.hpp:78: warning: inline function 'void Train::Tick()' used but never defined
13:59:07  <stillunknown> just make
13:59:14  <alfons_winkel> hey which methods inside GameLoop call drawing methods?
13:59:20  <stillunknown> that error only happens the second time
13:59:40  <stillunknown> when i include the header were i want to use the class
14:00:24  <stillunknown> when compiling new_vehicle.cpp i don't get that errro
14:00:39  <stillunknown> the other errors seem to be gone
14:00:45  <Celestar> Aracirion_: I did post my opinion.
14:01:08  <caladan> and did you include that new_vehicle to the object list in make?
14:01:20  <stillunknown> source.list, ye
14:01:24  <stillunknown> *yes
14:01:33  <caladan> and you compile it to .o?
14:02:03  <stillunknown> the code on it's own is pretty useless, but yes the actual new_vehicle.cpp file compiles fine
14:02:33  <stillunknown> only when i try to acces the class from a place that doesn't define the actual function, it goes wrong
14:02:33  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...]
14:02:51  <stillunknown> so my idea of logic must not apply to what i'm trying to do
14:03:10  <caladan> and in train_cmd you got that new_vehicle.hpp included?
14:03:14  <stillunknown> yes
14:03:23  <Celestar> Brianetta: so a 25meter wide tile would carry like 6 tracks right? :S
14:03:41  <stillunknown> but only in new_vehicle.cpp is the declaration of Train::Tick
14:04:30  <stillunknown> do i have to use extern's somewhere or anything like that?
14:04:37  <Brianetta> Celestar: Hang on, let me read what led up to that
14:04:57  <caladan> hmm, dont think so...
14:05:03  <Celestar> Brianetta: <= shortcut to "what led up to that"
14:05:16  * Brianetta clicketififies
14:05:21  <caladan> something wrong wit includes and so on...
14:05:51  <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd say four was reasonable
14:06:02  <Celestar> Brianetta: yeah, but it is not going to happen anyway :P
14:06:26  <Celestar> Aracirion_: i'd even prefer a 32m tile :)
14:06:37  <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd like to see two with the current OTTD graphics
14:06:56  <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, but that means about rewriting the vehicle handling code from scratch :P
14:07:04  <Brianetta> If you do a cut'n'paste mockup you'll see that you can get two per tile and it looks correct
14:07:05  <Celestar> and breaking savegame compability :P
14:07:12  <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, it does.
14:07:13  <Brianetta> It just needs new map
14:07:38  <Brianetta> and for new map to include some way of switching regular tiles to "double tiles"
14:08:03  <Celestar> Brianetta: and how to move from "straight" to "diagonal" tracks?
14:08:30  <Brianetta> Celestar: squish something
14:08:37  <Celestar> Brianetta: well I have an idea...
14:08:45  <Celestar> but I'm not sure that works so well :P
14:08:48  * Celestar goes trying.
14:08:57  <Brianetta> Perhaps just exclude the possibility of diagonal double-track
14:09:18  <Celestar> no wait :P
14:10:15  <peter1138> if you want double track, make the tiles *smaller*
14:10:22  <peter1138> aka... zoom out :P
14:10:31  <Darkvater> lol
14:10:32  <hylje> :o
14:10:52  <Darkvater> now, /me looks through the screenshot forum
14:10:59  <hylje> maybe split the current tiles into four pieces for train collision use?
14:10:59  <Celestar> peter1138: sub-tiles :)
14:11:04  <Darkvater> and it's also soon about time to update the screenshots on the openttd websites ^_^
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14:12:19  <Aracirion_> Celestar: concerning realistic map sizes: vehicles have approximately realistic speed now, so if you want to fly a plane over 2000km that would take more than 2 hours! So I think distances don't need to be realistic
14:13:05  <hylje> openttd is totally not in scale
14:13:29  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:13:32  <Celestar> Aracirion_: time is a different thing
14:13:54  <Wolf01> hello
14:14:00  <Brianetta>
14:14:06  <Wolf01> is the svn server down?
14:14:22  <Brianetta> The extra two tiles (excluding reflections and rotations) needed to get to and from double-tiles
14:14:26  <Celestar> peter1138: what about some fractal approach? :P
14:14:35  <Brianetta> double-tiles only available orthogonally, not diagonally
14:15:07  <Purno> Darkvater , R U here?
14:15:32  <Aracirion_> Celestar: isn't it relevant to you post about a map being 65 km in length?
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14:16:15  * Darkvater looks around
14:16:35  <Darkvater> Brianetta: missing a steady hand? :p
14:16:52  <Celestar> Aracirion_: I'm only talking about geometry here, not times
14:17:03  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I am, actually.  My penmanship is no better.
14:17:16  <Aracirion_> ok ok
14:17:19  <Brianetta> Dysgraphia, caused by a lack of fine motor control
14:17:47  <Darkvater> is that related to eh.. seeing-colours-in-letters-anomaly?
14:17:53  <Darkvater> *swap*
14:18:00  <Celestar> damnit
14:18:01  <Brianetta> Devil has left the game (desync error)
14:18:03  <Brianetta> Caladan has left the game (desync error)
14:18:05  <SpComb> Logs:
14:18:05  <Wolf01> !logs
14:18:06  <Brianetta> simultaneous
14:18:09  <Celestar> 4 parallel tiles by track is bitchy :P
14:18:10  <Aracirion_> Celestar: So my point is: you never look at the whole map at the same time, so its not so apparent that there's scaling going on. But you do see a jumbo jet beside a train/bus sometimes
14:18:13  <Brianetta> gam'e paused
14:18:22  <Celestar> Aracirion_: I agree
14:19:06  <Celestar> and the maximum length of a rail vehicle should be sqrt(2) * tile_size / 2
14:19:11  <Aracirion_> Celestar: That's why I propose to use the size of one human as refernce
14:19:31  <stillunknown> caladan: found my problem, i was trying to inline the function
14:19:44  <Aracirion_> Celestar: If planes ought to be smaller you could just as well make a cartoon-jumbo, which nontheless has a door big enough for such a homunculus
14:20:24  <Celestar> on a 32 meter tile, with 64x64 pixel tiles, a human would be 4x2 pixels
14:20:33  <Celestar> and jumbo jet would be 2x2 tiles.
14:20:41  <peter1138> stillunknown: now that's silly :P
14:20:56  *** setrodox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:20:57  <Celestar> now take 128x128 tiles and a human is 8x2 pixels or something
14:21:11  <Aracirion_> yeah right, but then that's a totally different approach from the onetaken
14:21:27  <Aracirion_> people are modelling at that scale right now:
14:21:59  <Celestar> Aracirion_: yes I have seen it
14:22:05  <Aracirion_> I think we have to questions: 1) desirability and 2) doability
14:22:14  <Celestar> Aracirion_: I can tell you what is not doable:
14:22:34  <Celestar> 8192x8192 (and larger maps) with 256x256 pixels each
14:22:43  <Aracirion_> thats not necessary I think
14:23:07  <Aracirion_> 2k is quite big and would support the sizes in my testrender, don't you think?
14:23:10  * peter1138 desires the current scale ;p
14:23:31  <Celestar> peter1138: the scale is ok, but better and independent graphics are desirable
14:23:51  *** setrodox_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23:54  <KUDr_wrk> where is 32 bpp?
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14:24:19  <stillunknown> KUDr_wrk: is it true that virtual functions are slow?
14:24:30  <Aracirion_> Celestar: anything else not possible?
14:25:14  <Celestar> Aracirion_: a different track layout to what we have now (at least for the time being)
14:25:21  <KUDr_wrk> stillunknown: if called offten then yes. Their execution cost is normal, but their call cost is 3..30x higher
14:27:09  * Darkvater likes the screenshot-forum
14:27:48  <Aracirion_> peter1138: It should be possible to switch between original size relations and new ones. The question is if Gfx artists should spend extra work to make other size relations possible
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14:28:17  <Darkvater> << ugh, this is what you get with PBS a huge web of brainless junctions
14:29:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: screenshot forum?
14:29:09  * Dominic instinctively just tried dragging the image to move around the map
14:29:17  <Celestar> Dominic: me too :P
14:29:29  <Darkvater> yeah
14:29:36  <Darkvater> subforum
14:29:42  <Celestar> ah
14:30:21  <Darkvater> last year there was a screenshot with a newspaper on it and I was pressing <space> to close it, and F1 to get the game unpaused
14:30:25  <Darkvater> really sad
14:30:47  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I clicked on my server webcam to open the detais of a crashed plane form the news article
14:30:59  <Darkvater> :D
14:31:24  <Celestar> peter1138: any idea when the plane units patch will be finished? as soon as it is, I'll start branching the balancing&economy branch :)
14:32:03  <Brianetta> Balancing (:
14:32:06  *** setrodox_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:32:08  <Brianetta>  might check out that branch
14:32:25  <Celestar> Brianetta: I hope that you'll run a server with it, because it does need TONS of testing.
14:32:48  <peter1138> planespeed :D
14:32:56  <Celestar> peter1138: see above :)
14:33:03  <peter1138> do you want rv units the same too? :p
14:33:07  <Brianetta> Celestar: I'll run it from home
14:33:09  <Celestar> peter1138: yes.
14:33:14  <peter1138> o_O
14:33:36  <Brianetta> My server server is getting a bit overcrowded
14:33:52  <Celestar> Brianetta: how much traffic does your server take (about?)
14:34:00  <Celestar> s/take/get
14:34:02  <Brianetta> Not sure
14:34:03  <Darkvater> isn't rv the same scale as trains?
14:34:08  <Darkvater> so therefore already correct?
14:34:08  <Brianetta> It's CPU that is the main cost
14:34:18  <Darkvater> if we take trains as a base
14:34:20  <peter1138> Darkvater: displayed speed, yes
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14:34:24  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Vehicle are, track/road isn't
14:34:25  <peter1138> internally 255 = 127 mph
14:34:27  <Darkvater> ah but internally
14:34:29  <peter1138> roughly
14:34:31  <Celestar> Brianetta: ok how much do you run?
14:34:40  <Celestar> how many*
14:34:43  <peter1138> hmm
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14:34:51  <Brianetta> There are three on my server, but they're rarely all unpaused together
14:34:59  <Brianetta> Both #openttdcoop servers and my Standard
14:35:04  <peter1138> or does it
14:35:16  <Brianetta> I used to run my deathmatch server from home
14:35:27  <peter1138> 127kmh
14:35:29  <Brianetta> so I'll run a balancing branch server there
14:35:29  <Celestar> peter1138: ok. if I give you access to a server, would you maintain it? :)
14:35:40  <Celestar> er
14:35:51  <Celestar> Brianetta: ok. if I give you access to a server, would you maintain it? :)
14:36:00  <Brianetta> Celestar: I could
14:36:01  <Celestar> like setting up maps and stuff?
14:36:03  <Celestar> good
14:36:04  <Brianetta> yes
14:36:11  <peter1138> i can run a server myself too
14:36:22  * peter1138 lunches
14:36:24  <Brianetta> How many are needed?
14:36:24  <Celestar> I'll get back to you as soon as I have some results :P
14:36:40  <Celestar> Brianetta: I'd start out with one and see what is happenning
14:36:43  <Celestar> s/nn/n
14:36:49  <Celestar> GNAH
14:36:55  <Celestar> can't ... type ...
14:37:05  * Brianetta adds another/
14:37:20  <Celestar> Darkvater: station payment fix will be applied now :)
14:37:32  <Darkvater> good
14:37:40  <Brianetta> Celestar: If peter's rnning one, itmight make sense to use his.  He traditionally runs a nightly in any case.
14:37:50  <Brianetta> It would also concentrate any players of that branch
14:37:53  <Celestar> Brianetta: cool
14:37:58  <Brianetta> of which there are unliekly to be hundreds
14:38:17  <Brianetta> Oh, I still have the Gimp running
14:38:23  <Brianetta> .me closes the dodgy tiles
14:38:32  <Brianetta> Can I have that slash back?
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14:40:07  <Rubidium> Brianetta: would you mind if your standards server does some extra checks to (hopefully) find the cause of the desyncs?
14:40:34  <Brianetta> Rubidium: By all means.  Just send a patch - new game tonight.
14:40:53  <Brianetta> I expect to have to test release candidates
14:41:36  <Rubidium> <- against 0.5.0-RC3
14:42:38  <CIA-1> celestar * r8144 /trunk/src/ (7 files):
14:42:38  <CIA-1> -Fix: [FS#163] When a station is removed, vehicles do not get excessive payment
14:42:38  <CIA-1> any longer, as the origin TILE is now stored as long as the origin STATION for
14:42:38  <CIA-1> the transported cargos. Basically this is only a temporary fix until
14:42:38  <CIA-1> cargopackets are implemented, but it fixes one of the oldest known bugs (Special
14:42:40  <CIA-1> Thanks to Darkvater for lots of testing)
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14:45:36  <Brianetta> Rubidium: If RC4 isn't out tonight, tht patch will be applied.  If it is out, I'll see if it applies cleanly, else I'll get another from you.
14:46:06  <Darkvater> Rubidium: commented out cachec_max_te?
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14:46:23  <Rubidium> that's not in 0.5 (I think)
14:46:27  <Darkvater> well, I'm willing to delay RC4 a bit longer if this diff helps fixing (a) desync(s)
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14:46:40  <Darkvater> oh yeah yo're right about that
14:51:45  <picitlama> if i don't build the train station next to the oil refinery, then the station doesnt accept oil.
14:51:53  <stillunknown> if things like u and v were abstracted into a call function, what would be preferable?
14:51:58  <picitlama> even if the distance is only one sqare.
14:52:24  <stillunknown> something like Get()->data
14:53:49  <Darkvater> picitlama: not all parts of an oil refinery accept oil, use the query tool and acceptance area to get the correct place
14:56:49  <picitlama> oh
14:57:00  <stillunknown> ignore my last question, it's not relevant anymore
15:02:38  <Purno> Darkvater :
15:06:03  <Darkvater> checking
15:06:42  <Darkvater> I'll have to check isles of scilly
15:06:53  <Darkvater> last time I had a look at it, it was pretty crap
15:07:20  <Darkvater> using heightmap to create scenario != good scenario
15:07:37  <Darkvater> but thanks Purno, I think I'll have my job set out for me tonight :)
15:07:44  <hylje> Darkvater: regarding that, how hard would it be to show "caught" cargo along with accepts?
15:07:51  <Purno> Darkvater , yw :)
15:08:15  <Darkvater> hylje: caught cargo?
15:08:23  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:08:30  <hylje> Darkvater: the cargo the station area collects from nearby industries
15:08:43  <Darkvater> ah; hard cause that's not how the system is set up
15:08:53  <hylje> ok
15:09:00  <Darkvater> but basically: if acceptance are touches *any* tile of an industry it gets cargo
15:09:06  <Darkvater> area
15:09:52  <Darkvater> you exluded your own scenario? :)
15:09:55  <Darkvater> Purno that is
15:10:49  <Purno> Darkvater , yeah
15:10:50  <Purno> I did
15:10:57  <Purno> Others were better
15:11:08  <Darkvater> :)
15:11:13  <Purno> well, it's only an advice anyways :P
15:11:24  <Purno> If you think you want a 2048x64 scenario included :P
15:11:34  <Darkvater> he
15:13:35  <Aracirion_> hm so is there any progress on the size relations?
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15:19:16  <Darkvater>
15:19:17  <Darkvater> hehe
15:19:20  <Darkvater> DaleStan scores again
15:19:50  <Darkvater> Aracirion_: not really besides that we'd like to keep existing sizerelations
15:20:12  <Darkvater> that carpark picture is nice though
15:22:01  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: So 90% alternative size relations will never be coded?
15:22:30  <hylje> Aracirion_: relative size will be relevant given a 3d engine
15:22:40  <hylje> Aracirion_: with sprites it isnt really feasible.. it just doesnt scale as nicely
15:23:00  <Aracirion_> hylie: have you read the thread about size relations?
15:23:04  <hylje> no
15:23:11  <Aracirion_> hylie: could you please?
15:23:20  <hylje> i have coding to do
15:23:26  <Darkvater> 90% TTD-like or 90% changed?
15:23:44  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: I mean 90% probability it won't be coded
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15:24:17  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: because then quite a different approach should be taken on modeling
15:24:31  <Darkvater> based on a reasonable timescale, I don't see much probability this being coded for the current OpenTTD project by the current developers
15:25:29  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: could you write something along that line in the forum thread? it would really require that the whole newgfx concept be changed
15:26:13  <Darkvater> ok. Will do that once at home(+- 1 hour)
15:26:19  <Darkvater> eh +- 1-2 hours
15:26:20  <Aracirion_> Darkvater: thanx
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15:33:09  <peter1138> hmm
15:33:19  <peter1138> Darkvater: but! i wanted to hardcode carparks!
15:33:26  <peter1138> they'll look really cool in 1920
15:33:34  <hylje> :o
15:34:19  <Darkvater> he, a HUGE station with a carpark and 2 cars in it for the elite
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15:41:57  <KUDr_wrk> wow, they repaired my Internet
15:42:05  <peter1138> woohoo
15:42:11  <peter1138> quicker than mine i guess?
15:42:17  <hylje> :o
15:42:22  <KUDr_wrk> i called them today morning
15:42:36  <KUDr_wrk> it was crap from yesterday
15:42:45  <Darkvater> :)
15:43:19  <Brianetta> Darkvater: There's a parenthesis mis-match in your SergeyS post
15:43:25  <peter1138> bah, i'm hungry again now
15:44:45  <Darkvater> will fix tonight
15:44:48  <Darkvater> or someone can edit
15:46:06  <peter1138> you'll fix up some food for me?
15:46:27  <Darkvater> what ya want?
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15:56:02  <Belugas> #I want to rock'n'roll all night
15:56:09  <hylje> nice comment
15:56:49  <Belugas> mmh... just the wrong channel, i guess ^^
15:57:49  <Brianetta> Ban lists need a subnet mask
15:58:00  <Brianetta> I can't type in the IPs from a /18
15:58:03  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:58:56  <Darkvater> it doesn't recognise it?
15:59:20  <Darkvater> you're getting the same 'clientid not found' problem still?
15:59:38  <Darkvater> have you tried outside rcon/autopilot?
16:00:04  <Brianetta> No, just banning a nob
16:00:19  <Brianetta> so I whois his IP
16:00:22  <Brianetta> and it's dynamic
16:01:03  <Brianetta> is part of
16:01:44  <Darkvater> ah
16:01:48  <Darkvater> what's that /18?
16:01:52  <caladan> mask
16:02:00  <caladan> How many bits are in local network
16:02:19  <caladan> More-less :D
16:02:28  <Darkvater> ?
16:02:32  <Darkvater> < network noob
16:02:36  <Brianetta> It's the nu,ber of bits that are notinthe network
16:02:39  <caladan> When you have IP
16:02:51  <Brianetta> = /8
16:02:54  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02:55  <Brianetta> = /16
16:03:00  <Brianetta> = /24
16:03:08  <caladan> right
16:03:16  <Darkvater> ah
16:03:22  <caladan> and then if you want to show a whole network, just show IP and netmask
16:03:35  <caladan> and it will do like, if IP&NETMASK == NET_IP
16:03:49  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
16:03:49  <caladan> then that IP fits into that subne
16:04:16  <Brianetta> 18 is
16:04:22  <Brianetta> I think
16:04:31  <Brianetta> or 63
16:04:35  * Brianetta shrugs
16:04:35  <caladan> nope
16:04:39  <Brianetta> anyway, it's plenty of IPs
16:04:53  <Brianetta> and I ain't typing them all in
16:05:05  <Brianetta> My openttd.cfg would be humongous
16:05:10  <caladan> you're wrong, not...
16:05:17  <caladan> not
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16:05:33  <caladan> last nonzero must be odd
16:05:44  <caladan> that's the first thing
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16:06:15  <stillunknown> Darkvater: is there code in the train "control" that is considered ugly and for what reason?
16:06:58  <stillunknown> i know it's not pretty, but i'd like to know the shortcomings before trying to change it
16:07:42  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
16:07:43  <Darkvater> the whole code is considered 'ugly'
16:08:32  <Celestar> it's not THAT ugly anymore
16:08:36  <caladan> == /18
16:08:44  <Celestar> it used to be much worse
16:09:12  * peter1138 replaces all map accessors with shifts and masks
16:09:19  <Celestar> lol
16:09:32  <Celestar> guys ... about balancing...
16:09:39  <peter1138> yeah?
16:09:43  <stillunknown> I have begun trying to approach the situation with more class, but i'm unsure what to do with some things, or what larger changes are desirable
16:09:52  <Celestar> I was pondering over the catchment areas, and I don't like the way they behave.
16:10:13  <peter1138> indeed, they suck
16:10:18  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
16:10:22  <caladan> stillunknown: dont do too many classes, you know KISS rule?
16:10:28  <Celestar> especially big airports + station walking cheat.
16:10:33  <Celestar> so I came up with an idea.
16:10:36  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:10:38  <Dextro> KISS rockz :P
16:10:38  <stillunknown> KISS rule, no
16:10:59  <Celestar> and I wanna know your opinions on this.
16:11:04  <setrodox> stillunknown, it's "keep it simple, stupid" ;)
16:11:04  <Dextro> KISS the band I personally never eared them :P
16:11:05  <caladan> Keep It Simple Stupid :-)
16:11:25  *** GoneWacko [] has quit []
16:11:29  <Celestar> The current radii stay unchanged, but first of all there is an idea of a "principal station"
16:11:32  <caladan> If you got like 10 classes to desribe one simple thing, that's wrong
16:11:41  <stillunknown> 4 currently
16:11:51  <stillunknown> generic vehicle, train, generic car, traincar
16:11:54  <Celestar> the principal station is that one that defines the catchment radius.
16:11:56  <stillunknown> not exactly those names
16:11:56  <caladan> You know UML>
16:12:09  <peter1138> Celestar: i'd say it should simply reflect what's on the map, heh
16:12:10  <stillunknown> me, no
16:12:17  <peter1138> rather than just be a huge rectangle
16:12:29  <Celestar> however, if any "lower" station is added to the principal station, (like a bus stop to an airport), the catchment does NOT change.
16:12:34  <Brianetta> Walking stations to the city centre = lame-arsed
16:12:57  <Celestar> also, things like railways stations have a total maximum catchment length.
16:12:59  <Celestar> and width
16:13:06  <stillunknown> caladan: ?
16:13:11  <Celestar> like 8x8 tiles or 10x10 or something.
16:13:24  <peter1138> then your huge station can only catch itself
16:13:35  <caladan> stillunknown: it's describing classes, i dont know if that classes have you know, consistency..
16:13:49  <Celestar> peter1138: dunno yet :P
16:14:33  <Celestar> peter1138: another option would be to have unconnected rail tiles to not count towards the catchment radius.
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16:16:22  <Celestar> peter1138: what do you think about the effort to improve the trolly AI by some user :)
16:17:06  <peter1138> if it works, good
16:17:23  <peter1138> our other AI seems to be hit by unfixed bugs
16:17:34  <Celestar> peter1138: <= this is how it works
16:17:39  <peter1138> but none of us use the AI to notice it
16:17:52  <Celestar> peter1138: because it is so messy that no one wants to meddle with it
16:17:56  <peter1138> indeed
16:18:10  <stillunknown> is it possible to abstract struct_ptr->variable, into something that still allows --, ++, =, etc?
16:18:26  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: how easy/difficult would it be to use YAPF for AI?
16:18:41  <Celestar> stillunknown: if variable is one of the basic types, it should work, should it not?
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16:20:11  <peter1138> i think a decent AI needs to plan its route in advance
16:20:19  <peter1138> and keep state
16:20:36  <Celestar> peter1138: I think a decent AI places the route in one go.
16:20:36  <Brianetta> That shot of the IA is yuck
16:20:43  <Brianetta> two stations per train
16:20:44  <Brianetta> not good
16:20:52  <peter1138> Celestar: that's not fair game wise though :)
16:21:04  <Celestar> Brianetta: it's a huge step up from what we have now.
16:21:05  <peter1138> i'd say it should plan the route in one go
16:21:09  *** Rens2Oblivion [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
16:21:10  <peter1138> and then try to build it
16:21:13  <peter1138> step by step
16:21:25  <Celestar> and then place 2, 4, 6 trackbits per second? :P
16:21:28  <peter1138> replan "if it needs to"
16:21:31  <Celestar> depending on difficulty
16:21:37  <Brianetta> peter1138: It could buy all the squares really quickly
16:21:38  <peter1138> yeah
16:21:42  <Brianetta> and then build track more slowly
16:21:45  <peter1138> hmm
16:21:49  <Brianetta> Giving you a chance to serve first
16:22:02  <Brianetta> or even race for a subsidy
16:24:14  * Celestar dreams of a code where there is one, and only one, pathfinder
16:24:21  <stillunknown> Celestar: let's say i make a function to return a variable, i still won't be able to modify it, a pointer doesn't seem to be the anser
16:24:25  <Celestar> pathfinder: there can be only one
16:26:04  *** KUDr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:26:34  <Celestar> stillunknown: er what
16:26:52  <caladan> stillunknown: what exactly you want to do?
16:26:52  <stillunknown> i'll tell you by example
16:26:59  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: possible, pf itself is ready for any kind of routes. But something like current track follower must be done that will be able to walk throug clear tiles, trees, etc. Maybe few weeks.
16:27:16  <stillunknown> if i want to abstract v->speed into a function Speed()
16:27:27  <stillunknown> if i return a pointer i can't increment it
16:27:38  <stillunknown> if i return a value, i can only read it
16:27:57  <peter1138> just using v->speed directly is probably good enough...
16:27:59  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:28:00  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: but at some point we can "convert" trolly-ai to yapf without too much effort, right?
16:28:21  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: yes, it should be possible
16:28:25  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: we're not really in a hurry there
16:28:26  <Celestar> good
16:28:28  <caladan> why not to use inline incspeed()?
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16:29:06  <Celestar> er no
16:29:07  <stillunknown> caladan: some things are not used enough to justify many functions
16:29:12  <KUDr_wrk> stillunknown: better to use usual way: GetSpeed()/SetSpeed()
16:29:17  <Celestar> Vehicle::operator ++
16:29:23  <KUDr_wrk> :))
16:29:27  <caladan> Hmm, that wont work
16:29:36  <Celestar> er wait that increases the vehicle :P
16:29:37  <stillunknown> i don't want overload the operator for the entire class
16:29:37  <caladan> I mean, it can, but it isn't clear
16:29:43  <Darkvater> ugh stuck for another 30 minutes
16:29:46  <Celestar> stillunknown: yeah got it :P
16:30:02  <caladan> so do a speed class :P
16:30:04  <Darkvater> I don't think we should get _too_ carried away here with classes
16:30:22  <Darkvater> if v->speed++ is enough, there does not need to be a v.increasespeed() function
16:30:22  <peter1138> hee, i've got a plane taking off at 50mph
16:30:28  <Darkvater> just cause it's cpp
16:30:47  <caladan> ok, but there's need for v->checkspeed();
16:30:55  <stillunknown> i'm considering if abstracting everything is possible, appearantly not
16:31:02  <hylje> peter1138: fun with speeds?
16:31:10  <peter1138> abstracting for the sake of abstracting, eh?
16:31:16  <caladan> it is, but there is no need to do all in classes
16:31:19  <caladan> let it be ++
16:31:20  <Brianetta> 200 planes
16:31:28  <Brianetta> that player is choking the skies
16:31:49  <caladan> Sh*t, true , 192 planes :D
16:31:49  <CIA-1> belugas * r8145 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Featurette: Allow for Tropic Farm to plant fields after producing cargo, like its counterpart in temperate climate.
16:32:08  <Darkvater> o_O incorrect commit message!
16:32:18  <peter1138> Fix!
16:32:22  <Darkvater> lol peter1138
16:32:23  <peter1138> Fixette
16:32:28  <Darkvater> @ other
16:32:40  <Celestar> rofl
16:32:50  <stillunknown> peter1138: the way vehicle data is stored might change at some point
16:32:53  <Celestar> Brianetta: I has 170 the other day :P
16:33:06  <peter1138> stillunknown: i somehow suspect that speed will stay a variable
16:33:11  <Brianetta> Well, they don't grind like ships
16:33:21  <Brianetta> I might cap it at 100 per player
16:33:23  <peter1138> no pathfinding, heh
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16:33:24  <Brianetta> not sure
16:33:29  <stillunknown> peter1138: it was just an example, but in this case yes
16:33:29  <Belugas> hey... i'm just following your footsteps, peter1138 :D
16:33:46  <peter1138> :D
16:34:11  <caladan> Brianetta: guess that he could reduse half of these planes, as they stay at airports most of the time...
16:34:19  <Brianetta> yes
16:34:23  <Brianetta> or in holding
16:34:44  <Brianetta> I think I'll cap planes at 100 and ships at 40 in future
16:34:48  <SpComb> use xml for openttd savegame files!
16:35:22  <hylje> xml and javascript!
16:35:58  <caladan> and java and C#
16:36:03  <Darkvater> cleartext!
16:36:05  <Rubidium> yeah, making the whole savegame format will solve a lot of issue; also those nasty desync issues
16:36:17  <Darkvater> #vehicle current speed: threehundredfiftysix#
16:36:25  <Darkvater> #vehicle number: zero#
16:36:30  <Celestar> hm?
16:36:39  <caladan> use brainfuck ;-)
16:36:43  <Darkvater> he's sarcastic
16:36:48  <SpComb> and then use the gecko rendering engine for the OpenTTD GUI
16:37:04  <SpComb> newgrfs could be css files with js resources
16:37:19  <caladan> or let users make up all togheter with Paint!
16:37:25  <hylje> :o
16:37:36  <Proeliator> when u guys start a new game, do u start with passengers/mail or goods? :)
16:37:44  <hylje> coal
16:37:46  <SpComb> starting with goods is hard
16:37:57  <Celestar> BAH
16:38:12  <caladan> but few buses build up cities :-)
16:38:13  <Darkvater> start with valuables!
16:38:17  <peter1138> freight
16:38:22  <peter1138> coal if i'm lazy
16:38:27  <Brianetta> wood
16:38:32  * Darkvater always starts with goods
16:38:45  <peter1138> wood or iron-ore for something that needs a chain
16:38:56  <peter1138> farms suck too much
16:39:40  <Belugas> start a new game?   Mmmh... I never do that... I just test code!
16:39:53  <Belugas> If it compiles, it's fine :D
16:40:31  <Celestar> lol
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16:40:54  <Darkvater> yeah wood's good
16:41:06  <jonty_comp> Hey there, I'm having some trouble making RC3 work on my dedicated server :(
16:41:15  <Darkvater> but as soon as I have a few million I invest in a lumber-mills, set up the route and let the cash roll in
16:41:21  <jonty_comp> I compiled it with ./configure --dedicated, and did ./openttd -D
16:41:28  <jonty_comp> But it gives a Segmentation Error
16:41:39  <jonty_comp> dbg: [NET] Resolved to
16:41:39  <jonty_comp> dbg: [NET][UDP] Advertising to master server
16:41:39  <jonty_comp> Segmentation fault
16:41:57  <jonty_comp> Did I do something wrong? RC2 worked fine
16:42:49  <Darkvater> using any newgrf files?
16:43:05  <jonty_comp> Yup, all the UKRS ones
16:43:13  <jonty_comp> Should I try commenting them out?
16:43:19  <Rubidium> jonty_comp: ok, wild guess: open newgrf.c, go to line 2421 and change the 'grfmsg(7, ' to DEBUG(grf, 7)('
16:43:27  <jonty_comp> Ok, I'll try htat
16:43:29  <jonty_comp> *that
16:43:47  <Darkvater> Rubidium: the wild guess is 100% correct
16:44:07  <jonty_comp> Heh
16:45:11  <Rubidium> well, at the moment I wrote (that part) it I didn't know he was using grfs
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16:45:48  <jonty_comp> Compiling now...
16:46:05  <Darkvater> Bjarni: ...
16:46:11  <Darkvater> Bjarni: Rubidium wants a word with you
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16:47:01  <picitlama> good old MiHaMiX.
16:47:04  <hylje> word
16:47:10  <Bjarni> sentense
16:47:20  <picitlama> paragraph?
16:47:39  <hylje> chapter
16:47:47  <Bjarni> novel
16:47:52  <hylje> book
16:48:00  <Bjarni> library
16:48:00  <picitlama> bookshelf
16:48:03  <Bjarni> internet
16:48:07  <Darkvater> idiot
16:48:10  <Bjarni> hah, now I outdid you :P
16:48:10  <hylje> internets
16:48:30  <Rubidium> Darkvater: huh?
16:48:42  <Bjarni> nobody said anything about politics
16:48:47  <Bjarni> or lack hereof
16:48:51  <jonty_comp> Hmm
16:48:53  <jonty_comp> newgrf.c:2423: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘test’
16:48:53  <jonty_comp> newgrf.c:2423: warning: passing argument 1 of ‘debug’ makes pointer from integer without a cast
16:48:53  <jonty_comp> make: *** [newgrf.o] Error 1
16:49:07  <jonty_comp> I didn't edit THAT line :o
16:49:15  <Rubidium> how does line 2421 look?
16:49:44  <Darkvater> Rubidium: v->insteant_depot_leave?
16:49:56  * Bjarni shares a word with Rubidium
16:49:57  <Bjarni> done
16:50:04  <Rubidium> oh, that, got no definite proof for that (yet)
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16:50:21  <jonty_comp> Rubidium: DEBUG (grf, 7)( "GRFID 0x%08X unknown, skipping test",
16:51:13  <Rubidium> nothing after the comma?
16:51:36  <jonty_comp> BSWAP32(cond_val)); is on the next line
16:53:48  <Rubidium> can you revert newgrf.c and apply ?
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16:55:06  <jonty_comp> I think so
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16:58:35  <Bjarni> Rubidium: you wanted to tell me something?
16:59:19  <Rubidium> that v->instant_depot_leave can be different for server and client, but I'm not certain whether that is the case when it is actually used.
17:00:26  <Rubidium> Brianetta: is going to run his server with a patch to check whether it happens or not and maybe we will find the cause of his desyncs :)
17:01:15  <peter1138> hmm
17:01:23  <Bjarni> it's always false except that it can be set when a vehicle enters a depot during the vehicle loop. When the loop is done, all vehicles entering a depot this tick will get autoreplaced if needed and if they got this flag set, they will be started again and the flag is reset
17:01:55  <Bjarni> doing the autoreplace in the vehicle loop fucked up the game as the number of vehicles should be constant during the loop
17:02:04  <Rubidium> Bjarni: that is _not_ true. You can easily verify that
17:02:42  <Bjarni> well, it is my solution to the fact that we got asserts when replacing in the loop
17:03:07  <Bjarni> and it is not supposed to work this way
17:03:18  <Bjarni> if it's not working like this, then it's a bug
17:03:53  <Rubidium> yeah, but it is only a bug when it happens to be the case when the variable is read when it is not written in the same game tick/frame.
17:04:57  <Bjarni> at the end of each vehicle loop, all vehicles are looped and then no vehicle should have this flag set
17:05:21  <Bjarni> if it's set anyway, then it's a bug in the clearing of the flag or something
17:06:57  <jonty_comp> Yay, it's working now
17:07:07  <jonty_comp> Thanks for that, I'll keep the diff handy
17:07:45  <Brianetta> I have teh patchz0rz
17:08:19  <Bjarni> Rubidium: you got an issue with that flag?
17:08:21  <Rubidium> Bjarni: apply and just let it run for a while in the introgame
17:08:34  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...]
17:08:41  <Brianetta> Rubidium: If you have ssh and would find it useful, I can add your key to the openttd server's account
17:09:23  <Rubidium> Brianetta: it's not needed at the moment.
17:09:31  *** scia_ [] has joined #openttd
17:09:36  <Brianetta> patching file vehicle.c
17:09:36  <Brianetta> patching file vehicle.h
17:09:36  <Brianetta> patching file openttd.c
17:09:40  <Brianetta> Patch applied cleanly
17:10:20  <Brianetta> make DEBUG:=3 ?
17:10:28  <Rubidium> not needed
17:10:36  <Brianetta> I'll set it to 1
17:10:46  <Brianetta> which is my usual
17:11:04  <Rubidium> I only need to know if it spams the console with inconsistency warnings
17:11:25  <Rubidium> and a savegame from just before it starts with those warning would be greatly appreciated :)
17:11:26  <Brianetta> Which debug_level is that?
17:11:35  <Celestar> Brianetta: I've added some minor stuff to the balancing script
17:11:39  <Celestar> draft
17:11:40  <Celestar> whatever
17:11:58  <peter1138> Brianetta: it's not :)
17:12:04  <Rubidium> it doesn't use debug, it uses printf
17:12:04  <peter1138> lol
17:12:09  <Brianetta> Excellent (:
17:12:10  <peter1138> bjarni :D
17:12:21  <Brianetta> because I turn the default net=2 off
17:12:29  <Celestar> <= please anyone tell me what you think :)
17:13:07  <Brianetta> Wow, compiling takes a while if your OpenTTD server is actually up and running...
17:13:24  *** KUDr [] has joined #openttd
17:13:31  <Brianetta> Hey pathmaster
17:13:36  <Celestar> heya KUDr
17:13:39  <KUDr> hey
17:14:23  <peter1138> Brianetta: or... if you're using my pc
17:14:40  <Brianetta> heh (:
17:14:47  <Brianetta> My server's only a P4 1800
17:14:54  <Brianetta> It's not a modern powerhouse
17:15:06  <caladan> wht's the OS?
17:15:10  <Brianetta> I thought it'd just be dishing out web pages
17:15:15  <Brianetta> Trustix Secure Linux
17:15:34  <caladan> Wow :-)
17:16:02  <caladan> maybe libs are compiled for i386? :>
17:16:23  *** scia [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:16:48  <Bjarni> Rubidium: well, after reading the code (not your diff) I will have to say that it's not set correctly. I'm not sure if it matters though since the code is able to unset this flag when entering a depot where it is supposed to stay
17:16:52  <Bjarni> I will fix this anyway
17:17:46  <jonty_comp> Hey, I had to apply that patch to my local openttd too, does that mean anyone with my grfs has to?
17:17:48  <Brianetta> I might have to turn on autosave
17:17:50  <Celestar> Brianetta: you literally need to sort out your priorities :P
17:17:57  <Brianetta> Celestar: I have done
17:18:03  <Celestar> ok :)
17:18:04  <peter1138> Brianetta: "only" ?
17:18:05  <Brianetta> openttd Standard is niced to 5
17:18:11  <Brianetta> the #openttdcoop ones to 10
17:18:21  <peter1138> Brianetta: that's a ghz faster than my pc :)
17:18:38  <Brianetta> peter1138: I sometimes run a server on my Celeron 433 server
17:18:42  <Brianetta> the one in the house
17:18:54  <Brianetta> from which I am IRCing in screen
17:19:47  <Celestar> Brianetta: we need dual-core servers :P
17:19:53  <Brianetta> yes
17:20:03  <Brianetta> with 4 dual-core CPUs
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17:20:15  <Celestar> that could run abupt 16 servers :)
17:20:16  <Brianetta> in my 1U case
17:20:23  <Celestar> hehe
17:20:37  <Brianetta> and my 0.5amp power
17:20:37  <caladan> how much RAM on that 433?
17:20:50  <Celestar> HR HR
17:20:56  <Celestar> "please expedite vacating"
17:21:03  <Celestar> Brianetta: you'll laugh, I did that once
17:21:03  <Brianetta> 190MB, I think
17:21:21  <Celestar> Brianetta: I've tried running openTTD on a 32-thread Sun Niagara Server
17:21:32  <Celestar> Brianetta: it worked, and it pullsed about 140 Watts
17:21:36  <Celestar> with 32 threads
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17:21:45  <Celestar> only xosview kind of sucked :P
17:21:53  <caladan> I got P3-500 with 300MB ram to run openttd and it's ok for few players :-)
17:21:57  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:22:11  <Celestar> it was ok for 512x512 maps at most
17:22:15  <blathijs> Celestar: How did you get ottd to use 32 threads? :-)
17:22:18  <Brianetta> I started running my nightly server on my Celeron at home
17:22:25  <Celestar> blathijs: starting 32 dedicated servers :)
17:22:25  <Brianetta> before I transferred it to sarah
17:23:02  <blathijs> Celestar: ah :-)
17:23:08  <Celestar> blathijs: each thread itself was rather slow (a 512x512 map with about 250 trains maxed it).
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17:23:17  <Celestar> but the thread gatling-gun took care of the rest :P
17:23:23  <hylje> ottd needs improved network stuff
17:23:36  <hylje> to allow for several servers on the same port/IP
17:23:47  <Celestar> why?
17:23:51  <blathijs> same port is technically impossible
17:23:53  <Celestar> I mean why same port?
17:23:59  <Celestar> it makes little sense
17:24:14  <hylje> well, to not have a fuckton of different ports on a hueg server
17:24:15  <Celestar> blathijs: nope, you could add the PID to each server in the packet :P and only sniff packets for you :P
17:24:26  <hylje> :D
17:24:41  <Celestar> hylje: you HAVE a fuckton of unused ports anyway ...
17:25:02  <peter1138> you need different ports or multiple IPs
17:25:04  <KUDr> Celestar: pssible on UDP
17:25:07  <peter1138> ports is more sensible
17:25:08  <KUDr> but not TCP
17:25:18  <Celestar> KUDr: I *was* kind of kidding :P
17:25:28  <KUDr> heh, then yes
17:25:40  <Celestar> how much is a fuckton anyway
17:25:41  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:25:47  <Celestar> :P
17:26:12  <Celestar> hylje: believe me, you have more ports in your stack than you can sensibly be running openttd dedicated servers :P
17:26:17  <Brianetta> 65535 - 1024
17:26:50  <Celestar> ruffly, yes
17:27:36  <caladan> what other services eat up that many ports? :>
17:27:43  <Celestar> I'm off
17:27:44  <KUDr> Celestar: any progress with ?
17:27:50  <Celestar> KUDr: looking
17:28:12  <Celestar> KUDr: yes, adding glx.h to variables.h fixed it
17:28:25  <KUDr> so commit it..
17:28:26  <Celestar> KUDr: it happens only on very few g++ses it seems
17:29:41  <KUDr> didn't happen for you?
17:29:44  <stillunknown> why should there be a check for stations or invalid rail, when staying in the same tile?
17:29:58  <Celestar> KUDr: only on one out of four computers
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17:30:10  <KUDr> hmm
17:31:36  <stillunknown> train_cmd.cpp, around line 3000, TrainController
17:32:05  <CIA-1> celestar * r8146 /trunk/src/variables.h: -Fix (FS#552, r8038): a C/C++ linkage problem on some very few incarnations of gcc
17:32:14  <Celestar> I needa go
17:32:21  <Celestar> Brianetta: please feedback on the new document :)
17:32:34  <Brianetta> Going home.  Any last minute requests (patches etc) I'll be back in about 40 minutes.
17:32:42  <Brianetta> Celestar: I see the catchment calcs
17:32:44  <CIA-1> bjarni * r8147 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp:
17:32:44  <CIA-1> -Fix: [autoreplace] v->leave_depot_instantly was not always reset correctly
17:32:44  <CIA-1>  While it's not certain if this would have any serious sideeffects (or any at all), it's reset when intended now
17:32:48  <Celestar> Brianetta: good
17:32:59  <Brianetta> Perhaps a big fee for big stations, too
17:33:08  <Celestar> Brianetta: it will be anyway
17:33:09  <Brianetta> so that two stations inthe same area work out cheaper to maintain
17:33:09  <caladan> I like idea of coal and other raw materials waiting patiently for pickup
17:33:16  <Celestar> Brianetta: because it will be per-tile
17:33:23  <Celestar> caladan: good :>
17:33:33  <Bjarni> Rubidium: now it should be solved (even if I think it wouldn't matter)
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17:34:24  <Bjarni> KUDr: do you plan to be online next weekend?
17:34:31  <KUDr> yes
17:34:35  <Bjarni> good
17:34:42  <KUDr> obj_C++?
17:34:50  <Bjarni> because then I will attempt to try objC++
17:34:56  <KUDr> wow
17:34:56  <Wolf01> hello
17:35:04  <Bjarni> I haven't got the time before the weekend to try something as big as that
17:35:24  <KUDr> Bjarni: prepare VNC server
17:35:29  <KUDr> so i can watch
17:35:56  <Bjarni> I tried to compile cocoa_v.m as obj-C++, but it failed big time due to incorrect types and stuff
17:36:08  <Bjarni> vnc is still blocked for incoming access
17:36:13  <KUDr> not problem
17:36:18  <KUDr> grr
17:36:32  <Bjarni> bbl
17:36:33  <KUDr> ok, i will prepare webex
17:36:54  <Bjarni> I got stuff to do and I hang around on IRC, I will not work on the right stuff :P
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17:42:07  <stillunknown> anyone familiar with/made the TrainController function?
17:43:17  * Wolf01 is syncing the patches
17:43:22  * Wolf01 does the rain dance
17:43:47  <Celestar> stillunknown: slightly but I'm on my wait out so hurry
17:44:24  <stillunknown> what's the use of checking a train station will be entered when staying in the same tile?
17:44:57  <stillunknown> as the TrainEnterStation seems to have no affect or speed
17:46:36  <stillunknown> Celestar: same for invalid rail check
17:48:17  <Celestar> stillunknown: stanby
17:48:44  <stillunknown> *affect on speed
17:49:44  <Celestar> stillunknown: the VehicleEnterTile returns only 0x2 if the Train STOPS.
17:49:46  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50:00  <Celestar> stillunknown: otherwise VehicleEnterTile modifies the speed.
17:50:10  <Celestar> peter1138: we gotta change that.
17:50:32  <stillunknown> thank you, i think i'll change that beheaviour
17:50:38  <Celestar> peter1138: only the TrainController should modify things like the speed
17:50:52  *** alfons_winkel [] has quit [Quit: alfons_winkel]
17:52:25  <peter1138> hmm?
17:52:26  <Celestar> ok really out now
17:52:49  <Celestar> peter1138: VehicleEnterTile should be given a (const Vehicle *) not a (Vehicle *) imho
17:52:51  <peter1138> oh, for bridge speed limit
17:52:59  <Celestar> peter1138: or station entrance
17:53:14  * Celestar will try to implement that later
17:53:18  <Celestar> cu later
17:54:03  <peter1138> heh, along with more prediction, they should, imho, set a target speed and let the acceleration function handle stopping
17:54:19  <peter1138> but it can't stop on a dime, which is needed
17:54:28  <stillunknown> peter1138: you understand what VehicleEnterTile does?
17:54:44  <peter1138> yes, it's called when a vehicle... enters... a tile
17:57:00  <stillunknown> no it's called when staying in a tile
17:57:09  <stillunknown> and it's not exactly clear how it modifies speed
17:58:10  <peter1138> how? it sets the speed...
17:58:20  <peter1138> hmm, yes, EnterTile was a bad name
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18:02:02  <peter1138> stillunknown: what's unclear about it? it's not elegant or clean, but...
18:03:35  *** Empero [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:05:55  <stillunknown> peter1138: i seem to understand it now
18:06:03  <peter1138> "seem to"? heh
18:07:26  <peter1138> lol
18:07:30  <peter1138> these planes are funny
18:09:15  <caladan> what planes?
18:09:34  <hylje> :o
18:12:42  <peter1138> these!
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18:22:25  <peter1138> hmm, this speed thing is fragile
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18:27:56  <peter1138> hmm
18:28:27  <SpComb> Logs:
18:28:27  <Wolf01> !logs
18:28:34  <CIA-1> miham * r8148 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:28:34  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-15 19:25:31
18:28:34  <CIA-1> brazilian_portuguese - 4 fixed by fukumori (4)
18:28:34  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 1 fixed, 48 changed by groupsky (49)
18:28:34  <CIA-1> croatian - 163 fixed, 60 changed by Ydobon (223)
18:28:36  <CIA-1> danish - 23 changed by MiR (23)
18:28:36  <CIA-1> esperanto - 2 changed by LaPingvino (2)
18:29:26  <MiHaMiX> italian    - 4 fixed by sidew (4)
18:29:26  <MiHaMiX> japanese   - 5 fixed by ickoonite (5)
18:29:26  <MiHaMiX> norwegian_bokmal - 4 fixed by brygge_2 (4)
18:29:26  <MiHaMiX> norwegian_nynorsk - 830 changed by khaavik (822), Eikje3 (8)
18:29:30  <MiHaMiX> portuguese - 4 fixed by izhirahider (4)
18:29:31  <MiHaMiX> slovenian  - 4 fixed, 64 changed by Necrolyte (68)
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18:52:39  <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Trying to execute a packet in the past!
18:52:39  <Brianetta> openttd: network.c:1197: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed.
18:52:41  <Brianetta> arse
18:53:04  <Sacro> openttd || echo "arse" ?
18:54:41  <Darkvater> back
18:54:55  <Brianetta> Something to do with the scenario
18:55:15  <Brianetta> I get this assert every time
18:56:02  <Brianetta> but not from cli
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19:00:47  <Sacro> real    0m33.157s
19:00:47  <Sacro> user    0m58.100s
19:00:47  <Sacro> sys     0m3.776s
19:00:49  <Sacro> not bad
19:02:39  *** Wolf01|AWAY [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02:43  <Sacro> hmm... i have an autosave that segfaults
19:04:07  <Brianetta> This new output is really confusing autopilot, and I'm not sure why
19:04:29  <Sacro> your server be broked :(
19:04:39  <Brianetta> only when I load a scenario or save
19:05:03  <Brianetta> or. if Ilaod a scenario without using autopilot
19:05:12  <Brianetta> Neither are options I'm going to entertain
19:05:57  <Sacro> hmmm
19:12:18  <Celestar> Darkvater: back 2
19:12:47  <Brianetta> Rubidium's cache checking diff breaks autopilot.  Let's see if I can see why it does.
19:13:38  <Darkvater> then we're both back \o/
19:15:23  <Rubidium> Brianetta: that means it must be giving some output
19:15:29  <Brianetta> It is.  Lots.
19:15:38  <Brianetta> And it's causing an assert
19:15:42  <Brianetta> in openttd
19:15:49  <Brianetta> hang on
19:15:54  <Brianetta> I have to keep Helen company
19:15:54  <Darkvater> it's *magic* it even stays in sync, eh?
19:15:57  <Brianetta> in th kitchen
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19:21:46  * Brianetta returns
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19:28:22  * Brianetta pokes Rubidium
19:28:33  <Brianetta> It outputs a bunch of CRLFs now that it never used to
19:28:43  <Brianetta> expect: does "\r\nCurrent/maximum spectators:  0/10\r\n" (spawn_id exp5) match r
19:28:46  <Brianetta> egular expression "Current/maximum clients: *[ 0-9]*/[ 0-9]{2}"? no
19:28:54  <Brianetta> that last "no" should be a "yes"
19:29:03  <Brianetta> but the server_info output has changed somehow
19:29:44  <Darkvater> ?
19:30:02  <Brianetta> Darkvater: That's what I thought
19:30:04  <Darkvater> last time I looked Rubidium's diff only added a few printf() debugging prints
19:30:12  <blathijs> Brianetta: I think clients will not match spectators  ?
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19:31:11  <Brianetta> blathijs: Yeah, you're right
19:31:31  <Brianetta> So why the heck does "a few printf()  debugging prints
19:31:35  <Brianetta> " cause ana ssert?
19:31:54  <Darkvater> where's that diff again?
19:31:58  <Rubidium> running two servers in the same directory?
19:32:03  <Brianetta> Rubidium: no
19:32:17  <Rubidium> Darkvater:
19:32:18  <Brianetta> It works if I start a new game
19:32:26  <Brianetta> It fails if I laod a game or scenario
19:32:32  <Brianetta> and it works in all cases without autopilot
19:33:01  <Rubidium> hmm, changing the frame_counter in afterloadgame might cause trouble with the server
19:33:05  <Brianetta> but since I'm going to run a scenario in autopilot, either I figure out what's wrong or I revert the patch
19:33:13  <Brianetta> I'm attempting the former
19:33:15  <Rubidium> oops :)
19:33:42  <Darkvater> hmm
19:33:46  <Darkvater> +  TrainConsistChanged(v);
19:33:46  <Darkvater> ?
19:33:47  <Rubidium> in a networking server it should not touch _frame_counter :)
19:33:56  <Brianetta> Rubidium: It does say:
19:33:57  <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Trying to execute a packet in the past!
19:33:57  <Brianetta> openttd: network.c:1197: NetworkHandleLocalQueue: Assertion `0' failed.
19:34:01  <Rubidium> that totally messes with everything of the networkserver
19:35:21  <Rubidium> ok, Brianetta can you redownload and reapply the patch?
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19:36:04  <peter1138> Rubidium: why is it ok for cached_* to be 0?
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19:36:57  <Brianetta> compiling
19:37:00  <Rubidium> hmm, good question
19:38:32  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38:54  <Brianetta> Server is up
19:38:58  <Brianetta> No assrtion failure
19:39:03  <Brianetta> no crying
19:39:23  <Brianetta> Why oh why is there always a company after loading a scenario in a dedicated server?
19:39:43  * Brianetta resets it
19:39:59  <Brianetta>
19:40:03  <Brianetta> OK, there's the ground
19:40:06  <Brianetta> Definitely a new game
19:40:19  <Darkvater> :)
19:40:45  <Rubidium> how do we monitor whether the patch openttd is printing stuff to the console?
19:40:58  <Rubidium> when it's running with the autopilot?
19:41:10  <Brianetta> Rubidium: It's spewed to the console, same as ever
19:41:22  <Darkvater> you should've used DEBUG() :) with developer=2 and script debug.txt
19:41:33  <Brianetta> It can hide the console, but doesn't on my setup
19:41:46  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Who was that addressed to?
19:42:04  <Brianetta> It's running -d
19:42:17  <Darkvater> in general
19:42:22  <Darkvater> but with -D it doesn't matter
19:42:27  <Brianetta> ah
19:42:33  <Darkvater> since it's the same output
19:42:48  <Brianetta> Devil has joined the game
19:42:55  <Brianetta> Map sucessfully saved to /home/autopilot/openttd-svn/save/join_45abd933.sav
19:43:04  <Brianetta> All console output is appearing as normal
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19:44:16  <Darkvater> but when using DEBUG() you can redirect it to the ingame console and from there to a logfile without any piping
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19:44:25  <Darkvater> so it might still be useful
19:44:59  <Darkvater> and your output only gets messages from DEBUG()
19:45:15  <peter1138> tum te tum
19:45:28  <Brianetta> btw, I am *particularly* proud of tonight's scenario
19:45:28  <Brianetta> available in-game or on the web site
19:45:30  <peter1138> hidden features nobody except Darkvater knows about ;p
19:45:45  <Darkvater> eh, I'm even wrong
19:46:00  <izhirahider> svn/openttd/src/network/network_gui.cpp: In function 'void NetworkLobbyWindowWndProc(Window*, WindowEvent*)':
19:46:01  <Darkvater> cause the console puts all shit it gets from the console into a logfile ;p
19:46:07  <izhirahider> svn/openttd/src/network/network_gui.cpp:878: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
19:46:20  <izhirahider> wow, never got one of these before
19:47:12  <peter1138> nice :)
19:47:23  <peter1138> i did
19:47:27  <peter1138> but it was a cyrix 6x86
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19:47:47  <Darkvater> lol
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19:51:00  <SpComb> Logs:
19:51:00  <Belugas> !logs
19:51:30  <Darkvater> Rubidium: why did you change frame counter in the diff?
19:51:55  * Maedhros ponders DaleStan's callback size patch
19:51:56  <Darkvater> (just curious)
19:52:04  <Darkvater> :O
19:52:07  <Darkvater> another ponderer
19:52:25  <Maedhros> well, sometimes it just has to be done :)
19:53:13  <Rubidium> so I could see the amount of time the game had progressed in single player (from the load of the savegame)
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19:53:44  <Xera> could someone tell me where openttd.cfg is located in linux?
19:53:49  <Darkvater> Rubidium: ah ok :)
19:54:01  <Darkvater> find . -name "openttd.cfg" 2> /dev/null
19:54:16  <Xera> no result
19:54:17  <Xera> lol
19:54:20  <Darkvater> it only appears after the first run of the openttd executable though
19:54:29  <Xera> well it's been run more than once :P
19:54:33  <Darkvater> or more correctly: after the first successfull shutdown
19:54:45  <izhirahider> peter1138, it was gone after a 'make clean' and re-make
19:55:07  <izhirahider> I find myself doing a lot of it lately with this new build system
19:55:07  <Xera> Darkvater: ah, thanks
19:55:33  <Darkvater> I'll be back in a few hours. Instead of the real snow Belugas has, I have to satisfy myself with some fake ice
19:55:48  <Xera> also, is it possible to add new grf files into ~/.openttd/data ?
19:55:56  <Darkvater> yes
19:55:59  <Darkvater> add them there
19:56:05  <Xera> ok
19:56:10  <Belugas> [14:53] <@Darkvater> another ponderer <--- what would you expect from Britts?  they are using Pounds!
19:56:14  * Belugas hides
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19:56:28  <Xera> lol
19:56:42  <Xera> it's Brits btw :P
19:58:31  <Belugas> ho... sorry... Brits then :)
19:58:40  <picitlama> wow. the new bank building quite impressive.
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19:58:54  <izhirahider> I have a savegame that by waiting a few days, money goes from +1million to -12 million ...
19:59:08  <izhirahider> anyone noticed a buffer overflow problem lately?
20:00:43  <Xera> one last question, when i add new grf's to openttd.cfg, and they're in a sub dir of "data", do i put "data/mydir/something.grf" or just "mydir/something.grf"
20:01:10  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: where?
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20:01:31  <Maedhros> Xera: there's an in-game gui you can use for adding grfs now
20:01:37  <Xera> oh :O
20:02:30  <Xera> i see, but it's not picking up any files
20:03:02  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:04:07  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: Püspökkürt
20:04:33  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: and i have a city called "szentföld" and i think this is very funny :)
20:04:53  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: hehhe :DD
20:06:00  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: i think the station called "Szentföldi hegy" soon became "Golgota"
20:06:10  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: :DDD
20:07:21  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:21  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
20:07:43  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: when can i build hub airports?
20:08:22  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: ask someone else, since I rarely play with the game :)
20:08:39  <Xera> Maedhros: it won't pick up the files
20:09:33  <Maedhros> are the permissions right? (on the mydir directory, as well as the files)
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20:10:29  <Maedhros> is there another data/ file that opentd might be looking in? (e.g. /usr/share/games/openttd/data, for Gentoo)
20:10:30  <Xera> well, i changed it so everybody/thing can right/read
20:10:50  <Xera> yes, /usr/share/games/openttd/data is there
20:12:14  <Xera> should i make a link?
20:14:09  <Maedhros> try it and see what happens ;)
20:14:25  <CIA-1> celestar * r8149 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (190 files in 15 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with -r8038:8038 from trunk (the cpp merge)
20:14:32  <picitlama> i am using lots of ships, for a few ports with big traffic
20:14:44  <hylje> Celestar: 8038:8038?
20:14:47  <picitlama> when 5-6 ships starts from a port, the sound is very good :)
20:15:10  <Xera> Maedhros: it works :P
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20:15:38  <SpComb> Logs:
20:15:38  <Digitalfox> !logs
20:16:14  <Maedhros> Xera: good :)
20:16:52  <Xera> now how do i use it ingame? (lepkka's new water)
20:17:02  <Xera> i'm such a noob, i know :P
20:21:22  <nairan> Celesttar nice pdf and yes the balancing and changes makes player vs player harder and more competitiv and ppls dont get passive
20:22:05  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
20:22:13  <izhirahider> Ok, doing my part of bug reporting:
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20:23:40  <Brianetta> Celestar: There's a town onmy server named after you
20:24:41  <Celestar> Brianetta: ?
20:25:07  <Brianetta> Celestar: There's a town on my server named after you
20:25:19  <Celestar> who did that? :P
20:26:02  <Brianetta> There's one for Sacro and Rich, too
20:26:14  <Sacro> me what?
20:26:20  <Sacro> :o a tribute
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20:43:59  <Wolf01|AWAY> what hotkeys are better for the transparency? ctrl+number, shift+number, alt+numbers, ctrl+Fn???
20:44:02  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
20:44:57  <Wolf01> or just numbers?
20:45:04  <Maedhros> hmm, something's really not working right when trying to join a multiplayer game hosted on my computer
20:45:39  <Belugas> Wolf01, something that all OSs can handle
20:45:42  <Naksu> Ding! you get skeleton key!
20:45:55  <Belugas> Maedhros, what?
20:46:11  <CIA-1> glx * r8150 /branches/newhouses/src/ (98 files in 6 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r8127:8148
20:46:51  <Maedhros> glx++
20:47:11  <Maedhros> as for the network game, i start a new multiplayer game, which is fine
20:47:36  <Maedhros> if i search for servers on the internet, they don't go away when i search for servers on the LAN
20:48:26  <hylje> yeah
20:48:32  <hylje> we need a clear button for servers
20:48:46  <Maedhros> i can't actually join that game from any other clients though
20:48:49  <hylje> and also a "save server" button to automagically add said server to list
20:48:58  <hylje> (local list)
20:49:21  <Maedhros> if i add it says the server is offline
20:50:24  <Maedhros> if i click find server, i get 3 new servers appearing - being one of them, with one player, and the other 2 having no name and no players
20:51:13  <Maedhros> attempting to join the server at makes the game lobby blank, with no option to join or do anything other than refresh the server
20:52:20  <Maedhros> i've got "dbg: [net] Cannot resolve ''" in the console which happens when selecting a blank server and pressing "refresh"
20:53:47  <peter1138> o_O
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20:54:36  <hylje> yeh
20:54:40  <hylje> had that sometimes too
20:54:47  <hylje> network has some minor bugs
20:56:37  *** Xera is now known as xera
20:58:42  <Wolf01> case '1': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 0); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //station signs
20:58:42  <Wolf01> case '2': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 1); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //trees
20:58:42  <Wolf01> case '3': TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, 2); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break; //houses
20:58:42  <Wolf01> there's a way to make it better?
20:59:14  <hylje> i'd do some dynamically created code
20:59:23  <hylje> its fairly redundant
21:00:16  <glx> TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, x - '1'); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break;
21:00:20  <Wolf01> but i don't know how to transform a number in string
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21:00:40  <Belugas> '1' = char(49)
21:01:12  <Belugas> bit to set/unset = 49-byte(char)
21:01:34  <Wolf01> (in gamemaker is more easy :D -> '1'=string(1)
21:01:59  <hylje> python and some other languages support muting '1' strs to int
21:02:00  <glx> '1' is not a string, it's a char
21:02:06  <glx> "1" is a string
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21:05:57  <Wolf01> case '1' | '2' |... is correct?
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21:06:40  <glx> in C no, but I dunno for C++
21:06:46  <Belugas> no, i don't think so
21:06:51  <blathijs> it should be?
21:07:00  <blathijs> char is an integral type, so should be case-able
21:07:02  <blathijs> I think
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21:07:43  <glx> blathijs: but what about the "|" syntax ?
21:07:54  <blathijs> oh
21:07:54  <blathijs> heh
21:07:54  <Maedhros> that won't work, surely...
21:07:55  <blathijs> duh
21:08:02  <blathijs> no, not supported
21:08:17  <blathijs> Wolf01: case '1': case '2': case '3': etc will work, though
21:08:21  <blathijs> due to fall through
21:09:03  <glx> would be nice to have VB style "case '1' to '5'"
21:10:55  <Wolf01> mmm i'm at the same point
21:11:22  <Belugas> or delphi case 1..5,  case 1,2,5,8,9  without the switch even!
21:12:47  <Wolf01> i think i confused a little C with bash
21:13:19  <peter1138> Wolf01: are you using SpriteID img instead of int32 img yet?
21:13:53  <Wolf01> mmm i'm using the palette switching
21:14:14  <Wolf01> so SpriteID pal
21:16:06  <Wolf01> for (uint i=0; i<7; i++) {
21:16:06  <Wolf01> 	case char(i+49): TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, i); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); break;
21:16:06  <Wolf01> }
21:16:06  <Wolf01> this could be a good solution... if it was possible to use a variable on cases
21:16:47  <Wolf01> but cases are static
21:18:50  <hylje> dont use a case?
21:18:51  <Rubidium> what are you trying? if (c >= '1' && c <= '7') { TOGGLEBIT(_transparent_opt, c - '1'); MarkWholeScreenDirty(); }
21:19:51  <Wolf01> i think it become really understandable as hotkey
21:20:59  <Wolf01> peter1138, do you want the patch to see what you can break? maybe so you can merge it too
21:21:29  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
21:21:46  <peter1138> Wolf01: patches are applied, branches are merged
21:22:53  <Wolf01> you understood it anyway :)
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21:36:21  <Wolf01> i just noticed that number keys are used for construction toolbars
21:37:46  <Wolf01> ok, the hotkeys are done
21:37:52  <Wolf01> (with ctrl)
21:38:38  <Wolf01> i finished working on it, now i only need to keep it synced
21:43:33  * peter1138 wonders what other massive changes he can make...
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21:51:32  <Wolf01> enjoy
21:54:59  <Tron> why does variables.h depend on gfx.h?
21:56:05  <KUDr> some linkage mismatch
21:56:50  <Tron> that's what the log says
21:57:01  <Tron> which is about as informative as "bla"
21:57:37  <KUDr> it was on FS
21:57:40  <KUDr> as bug
21:57:41  <Tron> introducing random dependencies is just plain wrong
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21:59:00  <Tron> aha
21:59:05  <KUDr> variables needed by cocoa are enclosed inside extern "C" in gfx.h
21:59:11  <Tron> so instead of doing the Right Thing(tm)
21:59:14  <KUDr> and defined in variables.h
21:59:20  <Tron> i.e. killing one of the declarations
21:59:28  <Tron> now there is a random dependency
21:59:29  <KUDr> killing?
21:59:29  <Tron> great
21:59:40  <KUDr> how?
21:59:47  <Tron> KUDr: kill, remove, delete, exterminate
21:59:58  <KUDr> but which one?
22:00:10  <Tron> preferebly the one in variables.h
22:00:18  <Tron> mostly because this file should be non-existent
22:00:27  <Tron> s/ebl/abl/
22:00:33  <peter1138> if only :)
22:00:36  <KUDr> then we need to instantiate them somewhere else (gfx.c?)
22:01:27  <Tron> and?
22:01:35  <Tron> is there any problem?
22:01:44  <KUDr> i dunno if it is agreed concept
22:01:56  <KUDr> i would vote for it
22:02:14  <Tron> having totally random dependencies is definatly not an agreed concept
22:03:37  <peter1138> erk
22:03:38  <Tron> bah, this stuff should not be in gfx.cpp
22:03:54  <KUDr> which stuff?
22:04:03  <Tron> gfx.cpp has nothing to do with resolutions and fullscreen or windowed display
22:04:53  <peter1138> sdl (well, X) lets me pick 800x512... and it comes up purple and blue and not happy looking
22:05:00  <KUDr> then they should not be in gfx.h
22:05:27  <KUDr> so if not gfx.h, not hal.h, then we have new problem with cocoa
22:06:09  <KUDr> logically they don't belong there, but technically we have in first part of gfx.h all stuff needed by cocoa
22:06:18  <Tron> exactly this kind of crap makes stuff hard to maintain
22:06:34  <KUDr> so i would wait with cleanup until cocoa id in obj-C++
22:06:51  <peter1138> you could be waiting a while
22:06:52  <Tron> just changing random stuff till the problem seems to be gone away instead of thinking about a proper solution for a minute
22:06:52  <KUDr> which should happen soon
22:07:12  <Tron> "soon"
22:07:14  <Tron> sure
22:07:21  <KUDr> this weekend
22:07:26  <KUDr> if we succeed
22:07:38  <KUDr> Bjarni already ordered my time
22:07:54  <KUDr> so we can do it together
22:08:03  <Tron> is there any problem with doing it right now?
22:08:21  <KUDr> now cocoa doesn't want to compile (C++ types stuff)
22:08:31  <KUDr> Bjarni is the problem
22:08:41  <peter1138> he
22:08:44  <KUDr> he has no time just now
22:08:57  <KUDr> and i can't do it without him
22:09:08  <peter1138> hmm
22:09:12  <peter1138> the compile farm can compile it
22:09:14  <peter1138> so...
22:09:16  <KUDr> if you want, take some mac around you and do it
22:09:20  <peter1138> or anyone with OS X
22:09:42  <KUDr> then i need access to anyone's computer
22:09:57  <KUDr> and anyone's help with mac
22:09:59  <peter1138> urgh, iMacs are horrible these days
22:10:37  <Tron> <KUDr> now cocoa doesn't want to compile (C++ types stuff) <--- and the problem with this is?
22:10:44  <Tron> extern "C"
22:10:44  <Tron> done
22:11:13  <KUDr> compile whole code as extern "C" would not help
22:11:21  <KUDr> did you ever try it?
22:11:28  <Tron> overkill?
22:11:31  <KUDr> it is still C++ compiler
22:11:47  <KUDr> still same strict about type conversions
22:12:00  <Tron> hello?
22:12:05  <KUDr> here
22:12:05  <Tron> the problem is name mangling
22:12:32  <KUDr> not if you compile it as obj-C++
22:12:54  <KUDr> there problems in .m files
22:13:02  <Tron> *sigh*
22:13:16  <Tron> you are making it way way way more complicated than it is
22:13:23  <KUDr> the same we had in our old .c files
22:13:33  <KUDr> me?
22:13:55  <KUDr> Bjarni told me that there are many errors in .m when compiling as obj-C++
22:14:10  <KUDr> so tell me how i am making it more compicated :)
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22:14:34  <Tron> the problem is a freaking variable which has two declarations
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22:14:43  <Tron> one is extern "C", the other not
22:14:49  <Tron> nothing more
22:15:02  <KUDr> if the first one is extern"C", then there no problem
22:15:17  <KUDr> opposite order is a problem
22:15:19  <Tron> if there were just one declaration, there would be even less problems
22:15:28  <Tron> s/were/was/
22:15:46  <KUDr> but this wouldn't solve .m compilation
22:15:46  <Tron> again: adding some plain random dependency is VERY bad
22:16:09  <Tron> and how does including gfx.h in variables.h magically solve .m compilation?
22:16:13  <KUDr> again: without Bjarni i can't do it properly
22:16:31  <KUDr> .m now compiles as obj-C
22:16:37  <KUDr> not ++
22:16:40  <Tron> they always did
22:16:51  <Tron> maybe the reason is they ARE objective C files
22:17:02  <KUDr> maybe
22:17:14  <Tron> still i fail to see what are you trying to tell me
22:17:30  <KUDr> so all variables it uses need to be extern "C" for the rest of project
22:17:43  <KUDr> nothing
22:18:02  <KUDr> i already explained how "magically" it solved the problem
22:18:11  <KUDr> but don't want to understand
22:18:24  <Tron> you /totally/ miss the point
22:18:31  <KUDr> what point?
22:18:40  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8151 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Automatically build semaphores before a configurable date, which can be set by each network player seperately.
22:18:57  <Tron> the dependency of variables.h on gfx.h is just plain wrong
22:19:04  <Tron> and also unnecessary
22:19:08  <KUDr> i agreed with you already
22:19:19  <Tron> having two declarations for one variable is equally wrong
22:19:21  <KUDr> so what more should i do?
22:19:26  <KUDr> kill myself?
22:19:35  <Tron> no, kill one declaration
22:19:43  <KUDr> which one?
22:19:48  <KUDr> variables.h?
22:19:51  <peter1138> the wrong one
22:19:51  <peter1138> heh
22:19:54  <Tron> well, if you really have to, you could kill yourself
22:20:03  <Tron> though it would not solve this particular problem
22:20:43  <KUDr> so which one?
22:20:49  <Tron> the current "solution" is just random unmaintainable garbage
22:20:54  <KUDr> no
22:21:02  <KUDr> gfx is more low level
22:21:06  <KUDr> it is not random
22:21:14  <KUDr> it is 'controlled chaos'
22:21:25  <Tron> nonsense
22:21:28  <KUDr> :)
22:21:44  <Tron> two wrongs doesn't make a right
22:21:57  <Tron> having two declarations is wrong
22:22:12  <Tron> adding an unnecessary dependency just makes it worse
22:22:39  <KUDr> ok, so again: which one?
22:23:20  <peter1138> well there's no variables.cpp is there?
22:23:24  <Tron> let's first find out who added the second
22:23:29  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:23:50  <Tron> hm, interesting
22:24:01  <KUDr> why you need to know "who" when talking about solution?
22:26:55  <peter1138> hmm, i wonder if it's possible to get the AI to understand build-on-slopes
22:27:37  *** Rens2Oblivion [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
22:30:16  <peter1138> sleepy time
22:30:17  <peter1138> nini
22:30:40  <KUDr> gn
22:33:28  <MUcht> question: will there ever be a chance to get this in: ?
22:33:48  <MUcht> not exactly this patch, but an increase max_players
22:34:13  <MUcht> wait: I requested it already :P
22:34:14  <MUcht> ;-)
22:34:37  <MUcht> we dont't need more companies but more clients ;-)
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22:40:24  <Maedhros> ThePizzaKing: i've finally closed your bug about building semaphore signals before a certain year :)
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22:40:45  <peter1138> lol
22:40:53  <peter1138> just read an email from my isp
22:41:09  <peter1138> BT say they found "no fault" with the line when it was tested
22:41:13  <peter1138> yet it magically worked...
22:41:42  <peter1138> um, yes, nini
22:42:19  <Maedhros> hehe
22:42:22  <Maedhros> good night from me, too
22:46:08  <Wolf01> the nice thing is that i and ThePizzaKing coded the same patch, at the same time and with the same bug
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22:48:12  <Wolf01> or at least, mine was older, but was for miniIN where it wasn't affect from the bug because of the signal gui, i introduced the bug with the porting to the trunk
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22:53:30  <Wolf01> peter1138, are you planning to break again my patch with another good feature? you are so quiet tonight
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23:01:48  <ThePizzaKing> Maedhros: Cool
23:03:13  <ThePizzaKing> Too bad the option won't be in 0.5 though
23:04:19  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:04:34  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:46  *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo
23:05:37  <Wolf01> is somebody thinking about coding a proper catchement area function?
23:10:24  <Rubidium> Wolf01: yes, Celestar to be exact
23:10:54  <Wolf01> good, i have an half-done "show catchement area" to sync with trunk
23:12:58  <Rubidium> I'm not certain Celestar is going to write a "show catchment area" function.
23:13:25  <Rubidium> he just has some ideas to modify the catchment radii
23:13:25  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:14:50  <Wolf01> what i need is that a L shaped station have a L shaped catchement area, not a width*height one
23:15:44  <Wolf01> and after that should be easy use the thd to show the area
23:15:49  <Rubidium> you really need to talk with Celestar, as he is still in the 'writing down and evaluating ideas' phase
23:16:02  <Darkvater> great
23:16:13  <Darkvater> why does bjarni write 140 character long comments/
23:16:22  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8147
23:16:24  <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r8147 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2007-01-15 17:32:42 UTC)
23:16:26  <_42_> -Fix: [autoreplace] v->leave_depot_instantly was not always reset correctly
23:16:28  <_42_>   While it's not certain if this would have any serious sideeffects (or any at all), it's reset when intended now
23:16:50  <Darkvater> this is totally braindead
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23:32:06  <Darkvater> goodnight
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23:38:34  <Wolf01> 'night
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