Log for #openttd on 16th January 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:09:39  *** PandaMojo_ [] has joined #openttd
00:14:34  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:14:47  *** PandaMojo_ is now known as PandaMojo
00:21:23  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:25:42  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
00:28:07  <Rubidium> Brianetta: are you still awake?
00:28:09  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
00:31:39  <Digitalfox> That's strange ... IRC server just gave me this message while marking me as away.. "Server load is temporarily too heavy. Please wait a while and try again."
00:32:11  <Digitalfox> I bet you are sending and receiving a lot files in IRC..
00:32:22  <Digitalfox> And i am the one who pays for that .. lol
00:36:47  <Rubidium> Brianetta, Darkvater, peter1138: [458635] Cache inconsistency of variable cached_weight of vehicle 23 (1619 vs 1136) <- this might have been a cause of desyncs, however I would like to have confirmation that this happened on the Brianetta's standards server too (I was spectating the game, with the same patch I gave to Brianetta earlier)
00:38:28  <Rubidium> I have tried to reproduce it with a savegame that was made less than a month before that inconsistency showed, but I could not reproduce, so I think the inconsistency is initiated by some user action.
00:44:23  *** caladan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:44:25  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: YOU! It was you wasn't it!?]
00:52:43  *** ArmEagle [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:57:44  *** ArmEagle [] has joined #openttd
00:59:32  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:35:38  *** nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:38:57  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:47:37  *** Proeliator [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
01:56:00  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
02:05:44  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
02:11:51  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:11:54  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
02:16:06  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
02:16:36  <SpComb> Logs:
02:16:36  <Digitalfox> !logs
02:18:54  <Sacro> :o
02:19:13  <Smoovious> ?
02:20:03  <Sacro> :D
02:20:05  * Sacro wiggles
02:20:12  <Sacro> though i'd like it in 0.5.0
02:25:43  <Smoovious> wonder how possible it would be to make a drawbridge... so like, a cargo or oil tanker comes up a channel, the drawbridge starts signalling stop, and raises for it
02:26:06  <Sacro> mmm, an interesting idea
02:26:24  <Sacro> i dont think they use lift bridges for trains
02:26:51  <Nigel> Sacro: i think they might
02:26:53  <Smoovious> they do
02:27:23  <Smoovious> all up and down the Mississippi river, as well as the one going through Chicago, they have them... even along the lakeshore here...
02:27:27  <Sacro> ah right
02:27:41  <Smoovious> kinda even between lift bridges, tilting bridges, and swinging bridges
02:27:46  <Smoovious> depending on the span
02:28:38  <Sacro> ah cool
02:29:31  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
02:30:15  <Smoovious> andif a train breaks down on the span, and it can't lift in time, the ship crashes into the bridge... with a chance of just taking itself out and putting the bridge 'in repair' for a period of time... a chance of taking itself and the train out... and a chance of taking itself, the train, and the bridge out :)
02:30:54  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has joined #openttd
02:37:21  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40:20  <Nigel> i reckon it'd be a neat thing, if you could have 'maintenance' trains
02:40:43  <Nigel> like the big orange CSX's
02:45:41  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:55:19  <Nigel> shift is share orders right?
02:55:41  <glx> no it's control
02:57:02  <Nigel> opps
03:05:27  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:06:35  *** blindwaves [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:06:35  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:09:10  *** FlashFF [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:11:30  *** setrodox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:16:17  *** Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
03:22:50  *** Osai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:27:53  *** nairan [] has joined #openttd
03:28:40  <Smoovious> bah... trains only finding depots that are right on the track they're travelling on... I have sidings set up for trains that need to go to depot but they aren't taking em unless the main track is occupied and they get diverted to the siding anyways
03:30:42  <Smoovious> how far ahead do trains look for a depot when their service time comes up?
03:36:16  *** BFM_ [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
03:36:25  <Smoovious> huh... one even bypassed a depot when it should have gone in... :(
03:38:39  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
03:40:59  <Nigel> hmmm, i reckon a neat feature would be "train scripting"
03:41:29  <Nigel> like "If $train is full, goto Waypoint Express"
03:41:42  <Nigel> (in the orders)
03:42:26  *** BFM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:52:20  *** dp_ [] has joined #openttd
03:59:19  *** dp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:03:06  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:07:16  <Smoovious> PBS would take care of that running an effective double-track or triple-track
04:13:03  *** HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
04:13:35  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
05:10:15  *** TSC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:30:57  *** BFM_ [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]]
05:46:07  *** Osai^2 [] has quit [Quit: Osai^2]
06:29:28  *** Netsplit <-> quits: eQualizer, @Belugas_Gone, Noldo, Brianetta, @Rubidium, kdr
06:29:40  *** Netsplit over, joins: kdr, Noldo, Brianetta
06:30:14  *** Netsplit over, joins: eQualizer
06:31:04  *** DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
06:41:39  *** Belugas [] has joined #openttd
06:42:49  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
06:42:52  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
06:43:34  *** Rubidium [] has joined #openttd
06:48:44  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:49:51  *** Zavior [] has joined #openttd
06:50:29  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:50:38  *** Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
06:56:03  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
07:03:01  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:07:39  *** blindwaves [] has joined #openttd
07:11:00  <Tron> Maedhros: r8151 is broken for multiple reasons. For starters you call HasSignals() for arbitrary tiles. HasSignals() is exclusivly for rail tiles
07:13:28  *** michi_cc [] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
07:15:04  *** michi_cc [] has joined #openttd
07:15:05  *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
07:15:51  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
07:16:06  <Tron> it's also unnecessary to use HasSignals() at all
07:16:42  <Tron> further you unnecessarily duplicate calculations with subtle differences, which makes maintainence harder
07:16:43  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:19:36  *** pecisk [] has joined #openttd
07:27:59  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:27:59  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:31:14  <Tron> Maedhros:
07:32:27  *** TSC [] has joined #openttd
07:36:22  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]]
07:38:26  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
07:39:44  *** PandaMojo [] has quit []
07:44:28  <peter1138> Rubidium: freight trains multiplier has been altered, it looks like
08:03:21  *** Mucht_ [] has joined #openttd
08:06:58  <Darkvater> good morning
08:07:03  <peter1138> hi
08:09:05  *** MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:09:19  <Darkvater> damn I need more sleep. Been on the road for the past hour and a half
08:10:32  <CIA-1> tron * r8152 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: Fix a off-by-one error in the placement of the sticky box of the road build toolbar in the scenario editor
08:11:17  <TSC> Is it the collection of physics patches that makes trains slow down around 45 turns now?
08:11:32  <Darkvater> morning tron; I suppose ;)
08:11:37  <Tron> morning
08:11:39  <peter1138> no
08:11:41  <Darkvater> unless you have some bot that does dosed commits for you
08:11:57  <Tron> pah, kids stuff
08:12:15  <Tron> i have a bot which /generates/ changes and commits them!
08:12:21  <Darkvater> :O
08:12:27  <Darkvater> can I have it :)
08:13:14  <Darkvater> Tron: is 8152 is that due to your recent changes, or is it older?
08:13:31  * Darkvater would really like reference revision numbers to know what to backport
08:13:51  <Tron> Darkvater: probably ages old, i guess when sticky boxes got added. I didn't really bother to figure out, because it's practically not noticable
08:16:51  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
08:17:07  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8146
08:17:10  <_42_> Commit by celestar :: r8146 /trunk/src/variables.h (2007-01-15 17:32:01 UTC)
08:17:12  <_42_> -Fix (FS#552, r8038): a C/C++ linkage problem on some very few incarnations of gcc
08:21:33  <Tron> !openttd commite 8095
08:21:38  <Tron> !openttd commit 8095
08:21:40  <_42_> Commit by KUDr :: r8095 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs) (2007-01-13 14:43:46 UTC)
08:21:42  <_42_> -Codechange: stuff that is not related to HAL moved from hal.h to gfx.h
08:23:54  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:24:18  <Darkvater> wtf?
08:24:33  <Darkvater> Someone sent me 2 emails showing openttd in esperanto and japanese
08:24:47  <ln-> and?
08:24:52  <Darkvater> I can't change the language myself or what does he mean by it?
08:25:17  <Darkvater> of the title screen even!
08:25:26  <Darkvater> bleh
08:25:35  <Darkvater> I gotta go, do some real work
08:27:51  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
08:36:57  <Celestar> stupid weather
08:37:09  <Celestar> visibility is down to the point where even the ducks are walking
08:37:33  <Maedhros> Tron: HasSignals is necessary, because otherwise you end up converting signals to pre-signals when clicking on them, and you have to use ctrl to turn them into one way signals
08:38:02  <Maedhros> calling HasSignals for arbitrary tiles is a problem though
08:38:20  * Celestar shakes his fist and goes back to Fortran debugging
09:02:55  <Maedhros> patch to fix 8151:
09:14:05  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
09:16:59  <Maedhros> if anyone wants to commit that, or finds a better way, please go ahead. i'll be in labs all day
09:20:12  <Smoovious> hey... in the Detailed Performance Rating... what is "Min. profit:" supposed to represent? it is showing 0% for all companies on my server... and I can't recall it ever showing anything but 0%
09:20:39  <HMage> Smoovious: the minimum profit your company gets from any single vehicle
09:20:54  <HMage> that means some of your vehicles don't get any profit per year at all
09:23:26  <Smoovious> k...
09:24:06  <HMage> make sure all your vehicles get profit at least 20000$ per year
09:28:48  <Smoovious> well, that isn't gonna happen so not worrying about it... I got a couple rail runs that are so long, it isn't unusual for one to not finish a round trip within a game-year
09:30:46  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Quit: HMage]
09:31:27  *** HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
09:34:08  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
09:39:37  * peter1138 wonders where to store animation frame for station tiles
10:02:35  <Celestar> peter1138: how many bits do you need? :P
10:03:00  <peter1138> well, i don't know exactly, but it may be a whole byte
10:10:59  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
10:21:24  *** setrodox [] has joined #openttd
10:38:49  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:02:02  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:06:24  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
11:13:03  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8153 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Change UpdateStationAcceptance() and ShowRejectOrAcceptNews() to work with cargo IDs instead of cargo names, and explicitly list the different strings to use.
11:17:10  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
11:20:59  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
12:21:19  <Darkvater> 'allo all
12:21:21  <Darkvater> back :)
12:21:38  <Digitalfox> hi :)
12:21:48  <peter1138> mr 'vater
12:22:16  <Darkvater> peter1138: why not pass the accepts/rejects values directly into the calling function?
12:22:28  <Darkvater> oh wait
12:22:30  <Darkvater> lala
12:25:34  <Darkvater> mr'pete'
12:29:07  <Digitalfox> peter1138: When i use Lv4 ( Long vehicles version 4 ), and i buy a truck it has the sprites of mail, but if i chose to refit to let's say coal it stays with the same sprites.. It's not supported yet by openttd?
12:37:40  <peter1138> yes
12:37:45  <peter1138> it needs cargo translation support
12:37:52  <peter1138> which i've got, but it's not in yet
12:38:00  <Digitalfox> ok
12:38:49  *** Mizipzor [] has joined #openttd
12:39:02  <peter1138> r8153 is the very start of support
12:39:22  <Digitalfox> And with cargo translation support it will support every cargo trucks can have with the right sprites?
12:40:15  <peter1138> yeah
12:40:16  <peter1138> well
12:40:19  <peter1138> whatever the current climate has
12:40:52  <Digitalfox> yeah.. New industries it's still very far ;)
12:42:19  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
12:42:48  <Digitalfox> But new industries is one of most liked features i want... But first newhouses must be finished... :\
12:43:13  <Darkvater> :\/
12:43:22  <Darkvater> *yumm*
12:43:22  <peter1138> not first
12:43:30  *** caladan [] has joined #openttd
12:43:34  <peter1138> just they use common features that newhouses has already implemented
12:44:18  <Digitalfox> so new industries can be applied to branch newhouses?
12:44:39  *** raimar2 [] has joined #openttd
12:44:47  <peter1138> well, newhouses is pretty much finished anyway
12:46:02  <Digitalfox> But branch newhouses is first going to be merge with trunk then new industries may be developed right?
12:51:50  *** raimar3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53:04  <peter1138> well, i understand there's already work on it
12:53:08  <peter1138> but not in a branch
12:54:39  <Digitalfox> ok
12:54:42  <Digitalfox> :)
12:55:54  <Rubidium> Brianetta: ping!
13:03:15  <Brianetta> pong
13:05:54  <Rubidium> can you give me the savegames from 20 to 10 minutes ago?
13:06:45  <Brianetta> Two secs
13:08:00  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
13:08:11  <Wolf01> ello
13:08:19  <Brianetta> Rubidium: On the site.  Also,
13:11:48  <Rubidium> Brianetta: I would like to have join_45acca64 too
13:12:20  <Brianetta> done
13:12:46  <Brianetta> If you want to compare save state and game state, I can pause the server and send you both a saved game and a core dump
13:12:57  <Brianetta> Depending what tools you have for examining the variables in a core
13:13:19  <Rubidium> it's already too late for that (I don't desync anymore)
13:13:30  <Rubidium> though the desyncs could be caused by myself
13:13:44  <Brianetta> I might try to automate a core dump somehow
13:13:59  <Brianetta> then have sarah_pilot accept commands from you
13:14:38  <Rubidium> no, I think I should implement some system to replay savegames
13:14:50  <peter1138> hmm
13:15:03  <Rubidium> so we can better examine when and why it gets into some desynced state
13:15:18  <Brianetta> Log every command to a file?
13:15:27  <Brianetta> with a tickstamp?
13:15:45  <peter1138> replay system :D
13:15:48  <Darkvater>
13:15:51  * Darkvater hides
13:15:57  <Darkvater> Based on TrueLight's demo patch, this allows a player to record his/her actions and play them back later.
13:16:00  <Darkvater> Useful for scenarios or tracking down crashes if the demo has been running since the start.
13:16:03  <Darkvater> Current issues are that the demo doesn't save mouse/window actions so unless you know where to look you'll miss half the action :).
13:16:05  <peter1138> r2352 :D
13:16:06  <Darkvater> But perhaps this is not even the purpose of the patch.
13:16:28  <Darkvater> it'd probably still apply :)
13:16:35  <peter1138> -> src/ -> .cpp
13:16:37  <peter1138> :P
13:16:45  <Darkvater> except for cpp
13:17:45  <peter1138> gurgle. i'm starving
13:17:56  <Brianetta> I'm eating dry roasted peanuts
13:18:01  * Smoovious hands peter1138 a Dorito
13:18:05  <Brianetta> I think I need a drink
13:18:07  <peter1138> i've not anything for.. 6 hours
13:18:11  <peter1138> *eaten
13:18:44  <Brianetta> peter1138: That came across as German
13:19:20  <Brianetta> Ich habe Nichts seit sechs Stünden gegessen...
13:19:24  <Brianetta> or something
13:19:58  <Digitalfox> peter1138: what do you eant to eat?? My mother has a resturant so ask and i'll send it by mail.. You have to wait a couple of days .. ;)
13:20:06  <Digitalfox> *want
13:21:09  <Digitalfox> *restaurant
13:21:13  <peter1138> Brianetta: i've been accused of being german before
13:22:03  <XeryusTC> peter1138: you arent german?
13:22:16  <peter1138> o_O
13:23:02  <Brianetta> peter1138: Is your nick inspired by an early Lucas film?
13:23:11  <peter1138> possibly, possibly just a number
13:23:18  <Darkvater> it'd probably still apply :)
13:23:24  <Darkvater> rrk
13:23:25  <Darkvater> eek
13:23:27  <peter1138> RRK!
13:23:35  * peter1138 applies
13:23:44  <peter1138> hmm, i could get a pizza delivered...
13:23:58  <Digitalfox> By the way time to go lunch.. Now what should i ask my cooks to make to my lunch .. Nothing like eating always what you want..
13:24:16  <Brianetta> Poison pie
13:24:27  <Digitalfox> Brianetta: lol
13:24:55  *** Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
13:25:37  <Darkvater> fried snails
13:27:17  *** Ailure [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:27:22  <peter1138> hmm
13:27:28  <peter1138> i just spelt four as foor
13:27:35  <Digitalfox> here in Portugal, there are great cooks.. People that visit portugal, knows us because of some of are food
13:27:56  <Darkvater> some of you are food?
13:27:58  <Digitalfox> ops.... some of our food lol
13:27:58  <Darkvater> damn
13:28:39  <Digitalfox> Darkvater: This is what being strave
13:29:02  <Digitalfox> Darkvater: This is what happens when i'm starving
13:29:15  <Darkvater> don't do that :)
13:29:19  *** xera is now known as Xera
13:29:48  <peter1138> hrrm
13:29:58  <Digitalfox> I mistyped.. But there are people in the world that pay to eat human flesh and to be eaten by others humans
13:30:02  <peter1138> "You probably can store the sprites in PNG format in the spritebuffer. Exchanging performance for memory."
13:30:09  <peter1138> *big* performance hit, i think, heh
13:30:29  <Digitalfox> I saw a news someotherday about that..
13:31:02  <Darkvater> tortoisesvn is totally broken..doens't want to apply to simplest patches anymore :s
13:33:40  *** Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:33:56  <peter1138> urgh
13:34:04  <peter1138> i just went in the loco forum by mistake
13:34:23  <Darkvater> gaah, cleanse! cleanse!
13:36:11  *** Celestar [] has joined #openttd
13:40:07  *** setrodox_ [] has joined #openttd
13:40:10  <Brianetta> Locomotion has such lovely looking train, and such pretty track, you'd think that there could be some really nice screenshots
13:40:15  <Brianetta> but they're all boring and pap
13:40:41  <Celestar> the look of the vehicles was the only lovely thing about that POS
13:41:11  <Brianetta> and the 4x rotate
13:41:25  <Brianetta> and the drive-it-yourself feature
13:41:26  <peter1138> they're a bit grainy
13:41:29  <Brianetta> that was lovely
13:41:49  * peter1138 ponders that little patch as some easter egg... hehe
13:42:06  <Brianetta> peter1138: It should be a HEADLINE FEECHOORE
13:42:15  <Brianetta> to paraskiddle
13:42:18  <peter1138> hheh
13:47:35  *** setrodox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:49:30  *** setrodox_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:49:53  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has joined #openttd
13:50:16  *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@] has joined #openttd
13:53:49  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55:08  *** setrodox__ [] has joined #openttd
13:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: i don't think i agree with the station radius thing, personally, i think it would be nicer if you had some base acceptance area (possibly independent of station size), and certain non-track-tiles (station building, warehouses, car parks etc.) can extend this area, but cost a lot of money to maintain
13:59:16  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: that again opens the door to lots of station walking
13:59:38  <Darkvater> well
13:59:45  <Darkvater> station walking is kinda solved in trunk/
14:00:06  <Darkvater> eg you have your 'max_station_spread' and your station CANNOT be any bigger than that
14:00:16  *** xbddc [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe, this acceptance area always expands from the station sign, and you need some kind of possibility to move that station sign within your station
14:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> and it is never allowed to be outside of the station
14:02:45  *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04:30  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Server's desyncing
14:04:42  <Brianetta> er, was
14:05:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> basically this would lead to some kind of system, where you can change the acceptance radius of your station, but you have to pay money for it
14:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> on the other hand, the acceptance radius of a station would be rather unimportant, if we had a passenger transit system, so we could build a network of busses (or trams) within the city, that carries the passengers to the station
14:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> or airport
14:08:31  <Rubidium> Brianetta: it (probably) started somewhere in january
14:09:15  <Brianetta> I've not seen any additional output from your patch
14:09:21  <Brianetta> Are we excluding the cache?
14:10:49  <Rubidium> Brianetta: strange, as I've seen output on my computer while spectating your game
14:11:00  <Brianetta> hmm
14:11:30  <Brianetta> I'll have to double-check that it's properly applied
14:11:41  <Brianetta> revert all, apply, make clean, build
14:14:56  <Brianetta> peter1138: 0.5 still attempts to load the map before checking newgrfs
14:15:15  <Darkvater> connect doesn't have pre-grf check
14:15:23  <Darkvater> we should probably move that to the network code
14:15:44  <peter1138> s/move/add/
14:15:59  <peter1138> it has the network gui stuff, doesn't it?
14:16:26  <Darkvater> yes, but you don't need that actually
14:16:38  <Darkvater> connect should just return 'incompatible newgrf'
14:16:40  <Darkvater> or something
14:16:55  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
14:17:26  <SpComb> Logs:
14:17:26  <Digitalfox> !logs
14:20:43  <Digitalfox> Since i'm from Portugal by time is GMT, right now is 2:19PM and what time is logs of IRC?? Cause in IRC logs it's 4PM now..
14:20:53  <Digitalfox> by=my
14:21:21  <Digitalfox> GMT+2h ?
14:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> finland has GMT+2
14:23:52  <hylje> zomg
14:24:39  <caladan> got only console, is there any openttd verion using libcaca? :D
14:25:00  <Digitalfox> So IRC SpComb is in finland?
14:25:41  <hylje> caladan: not yet
14:26:45  <Darkvater>
14:26:46  <Darkvater> hehe
14:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> what exactly do you think that a .fi address means, Digitalfox?
14:27:17  <caladan> it's like in bash if, fi ;-)
14:27:21  <Darkvater>
14:27:41  <hylje> :-)
14:27:41  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3: i din't saw his ip or adress :)
14:27:42  <SpComb> Digitalfox: yes, just wait a year or two and I'll hae SpBotII out with selectable timezones
14:28:00  <Digitalfox> SpComb: I'm waiting.. ;)
14:28:02  *** setrodox__ is now known as setrodox
14:28:14  <hylje> Darkvater: interestingly enough the bombers are more lethal than the saucers
14:28:25  <SpComb> <-- although I actually got quite far along with it during the christmas holidays
14:28:30  <Darkvater> yeah
14:28:31  <SpComb> 10,000 lines of python code o/
14:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: <SpComb> Logs: <- and what do you think this is, if it is not a IP or address?
14:28:44  <hylje> how the fuck -- oh wait it implements the irc protocol
14:29:07  <SpComb> it implements the sematics of the IRC protocol
14:29:12  <SpComb> which are a bit inconsistent at times
14:29:23  <SpComb>
14:30:20  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3: ok, i didn't made enought observation.. Take it easy :)
14:30:32  <hylje> as said before, the irc protocol is a big wtf
14:32:53  <hylje> hm, does spbot2 implement MVC way of doing stuff?
14:32:54  <SpComb> it's not that much of a wtf if you consider what it is intended for
14:33:04  <SpComb> ...implementing IRC clients for humans to use
14:33:12  <SpComb> hylje: no. It's not an entire app so far
14:33:21  <SpComb> I've mostly been working on the protocol (model)
14:33:27  <SpComb> and what's the view in an IRC bot?
14:33:33  <SpComb> the debug output handler? :P
14:33:48  <hylje> or the wtf-to-do thing
14:33:57  <hylje> equivalent of event handling
14:34:16  <SpComb> the events go from the protocol to the bot state, mostly
14:34:25  <SpComb> I'm not quite sure how a MVC design would apply to an IRC bot
14:34:26  <hylje> might not apply 1:1 but the principle should be there
14:34:32  <hylje> spaghetti sucks
14:34:49  <SpComb> it's entirely event-based with linear imports and inheritance
14:34:55  <Digitalfox> Take a look at this video of a woman driving.. Never ask you wife or girlfriend to change the oilo.. lol
14:35:02  <Digitalfox> *oil
14:35:26  <SpComb> it's not really spaghetti except maybe in PendingRequest
14:35:48  <Digitalfox> i just felt of the chair when the guy asks the girl to stop and she speeds up even more.. lol
14:35:52  <SpComb>
14:36:07  *** orudge [] has quit []
14:36:41  <Digitalfox> What do you guys think?
14:37:08  <hylje> nice docstring on the PR class
14:37:09  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
14:37:11  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
14:37:17  <hylje> or, rather its init
14:38:21  <SpComb> at least it doesn't reflect code that's about four weeks old, like in IRCClient
14:38:31  * SpComb still needs to clean up the unicode handling
14:38:52  *** GeniusDex [] has joined #openttd
14:39:47  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
14:42:54  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:42:55  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:49:40  *** orudge [] has joined #openttd
14:49:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
14:50:55  <Xera> is the jukebox supposed to work? :p
14:52:32  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:53:59  <peter1138> it does
14:54:13  <Xera> not here
14:54:57  <caladan> what os?
14:55:38  <Xera> Kubuntu 6.06
14:55:46  <glx> do you have timidity?
14:55:53  <Xera> um
14:55:54  <Xera> what?
14:55:57  <caladan> :]
14:56:04  <caladan> timidity, driver for midi :]
14:56:16  <Xera> ah, no i didn't
14:56:18  <Xera> installing ;p
14:57:04  *** green-devil [] has joined #openttd
14:59:31  <Xera> hmm
14:59:40  <Xera> Segmentation fault when loading a game save
14:59:58  <caladan> did you run proper command?
15:00:07  <Xera> uh
15:00:14  <Xera> i ran "openttd"
15:00:26  <caladan> check for options @ command prompt
15:01:03  <Xera> "check for options" ?
15:01:18  <caladan> yes
15:01:26  <caladan> openttd --help
15:01:29  <Xera> oh
15:01:30  <Xera> k
15:02:07  <glx> no openttd -h
15:02:21  <Xera> --help works too
15:02:21  <Xera> xD
15:02:27  <Rubidium> Xera: 0.5.0-RC3?
15:02:31  <Xera> yes
15:02:38  <Rubidium> and a savegame with GRFs
15:02:45  <Xera> yes
15:03:01  <Rubidium> compiled it yourself?
15:03:07  <Xera> no
15:03:12  <Xera> Deb
15:03:23  <Darkvater> any saved game?
15:03:41  <Xera> yes
15:03:50  <Xera> seg fault when loading it ;/
15:03:57  <Rubidium> Darkvater: not needed, it's that grfmsg(7 bug
15:04:04  <Brianetta> Timidity and OpenTTD.  That needs at least two CPU cores.
15:04:06  <Darkvater> ah
15:04:14  <Brianetta> Preferably three or four
15:04:15  <Darkvater> Xera: wait for RC4
15:04:19  <Xera> Brianetta: lol?
15:04:28  <Xera> OpenTTD takes about 5k memory
15:04:41  <Darkvater> timidity takes about 70% CPU
15:04:42  <Brianetta> PUC != memory
15:04:44  <Brianetta> er
15:04:46  <Brianetta> CPU != memory
15:04:48  <caladan> Brianetta: i guess you hve like one i386 s one core and second i386 s nother core :P
15:04:51  <Xera> ups
15:04:55  <Xera> lol
15:04:59  * Xera slaps Xera
15:05:04  <Brianetta> caladan: Have you seen the drain that Timidity puts on?
15:05:10  <caladan> never
15:05:16  <Brianetta> THen don't speak on it
15:05:21  <caladan> never checked relly :D
15:05:30  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: i ran it fine on a sempron 2600+ ;)
15:05:34  <Xera> i was surprised when i checked my cpu usage the other day, 96%, but no lagg :P
15:05:34  <Brianetta> It easily eats 100% of my Athlon XP 2500+
15:05:38  <Brianetta> and gives choppy sound
15:05:45  <Darkvater> timidity is horrible :s
15:05:52  <GeniusDex> there's 2 options taking loads of cpu
15:05:55  <GeniusDex> i believe chorus was one
15:05:57  <Brianetta> Timidity id fine for one-off rendering, say, to an MP3
15:06:05  <Brianetta> Reverb, not chorus
15:06:08  <GeniusDex> i turned them off and it dropped to 5% CPU
15:06:15  <Brianetta> 5% isn't realistic
15:06:25  <Brianetta> I remember when Timidity didn't have reverb yet
15:06:49  <caladan> cant it be just turned off?
15:07:03  *** Xera [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:07:06  <Brianetta> Anyway, a better option is to render the midi music to MP3, and then use an MP3 player instead of Timidity during play
15:07:24  <Brianetta> since any MP3 player uses a 20th of the CPu
15:07:30  <Brianetta> of Timidity
15:08:07  <Brianetta> Of course, there's no MP3 control in OpenTTD, but no platform on which Timidity runs, is not multi-tasking.
15:08:23  <Brianetta> I use XMMS
15:08:40  <peter1138> there was a DOS port i believe...
15:08:41  <Brianetta> and when "Aliens Ate My Railway" is too much to bear, I click one button and it's Zernebok Radio
15:08:43  <hylje> :o
15:08:53  <Brianetta> peter1138: DOS port obviates TTD
15:08:57  <Brianetta> well, openTTD
15:09:43  *** Xera [] has joined #openttd
15:12:27  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: turning reverb off drops timidity from ~40% to ~10% CPU on this box
15:13:49  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
15:15:27  <Biff> hmm, something wrong with svn?
15:15:38  <Darkvater> no
15:15:38  <peter1138> we're going private
15:15:47  <Darkvater> ^
15:15:49  <Biff> i cant do svn up, it asks for password (so anonymous) doesnt work
15:16:01  <Biff> peter1138: hehe
15:16:08  <Brianetta> Private ):
15:16:09  <orudge> Ye what?
15:16:10  <Darkvater> lol
15:16:11  <orudge> Why?
15:16:13  <Darkvater> he thinks it's funny
15:16:17  <Darkvater> whatever
15:16:38  <hylje> anonymous
15:16:54  <Biff> yep that would be pretty funny
15:17:00  <Brianetta> I like having anonymous SVN access
15:17:14  <Sacro> wasnt he that famous poet?
15:17:51  <hylje> Sacro: i think so
15:18:05  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8154 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Water can no longer be under bridge tiles, so don't check for it.
15:19:38  <Biff> someone fix svn
15:19:41  <Biff> =)
15:19:49  <Darkvater> it's private
15:19:49  <izhirahider> I second that
15:19:53  <Darkvater> there is nothing to fix
15:19:55  <Biff> what?
15:20:01  <Biff> are you serious?
15:20:04  <orudge> Darkvater: are you actually being serious there?
15:20:05  <orudge> why is it private?
15:20:13  <SpComb> Logs:
15:20:13  <orudge> !logs
15:20:14  <Darkvater> didn't peter also already told you?
15:20:25  <CIA-1> bjarni * r8155 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp players.cpp): -Fix: fixed compilation when --disable-network is in use
15:20:42  <Biff> i assume he was joking
15:20:53  <Darkvater> I don' care what you're assuming
15:21:32  <CIA-1> truelight * r8156 /mapgen/:
15:21:32  <CIA-1> [MapGen] -Add: added dir where we start a new project: MapGen.
15:21:32  <CIA-1>  The project is very secret and is therefor under strict read/write access.
15:21:32  <CIA-1>  More information soon.
15:21:39  <Sacro> :o mapgen?
15:21:45  <Biff> i see
15:21:45  <Sacro> ooh tis secret
15:22:04  <Brianetta> Water
15:22:04  <Brianetta>               can no longer be under bridge tiles, so don't check for it.
15:22:13  <Brianetta> Have to say, hat's got me curious.
15:22:14  <Sacro> Brianetta: beg pardon?
15:22:20  <Sacro> er...
15:22:23  <Brianetta> r8154
15:22:26  <Bjarni> I can't tell you guys what this is all about
15:22:26  <Brianetta> comit message
15:22:27  <Sacro> so how do i build over a lake/stream/river
15:22:29  <Bjarni> it's a secret
15:22:35  * Sacro already knows
15:22:38  <Brianetta> Bjarni: So it's closed open source?
15:22:38  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: i bet it has something to do with a new sound/music engine
15:22:59  <Biff> yep, thats how most successful open source software has been made
15:23:26  <izhirahider> Can you at least tell us if this abrupt change is going to be permanent?
15:23:47  <SpComb> Logs:
15:23:47  <peter1138> !logs
15:24:37  <Darkvater> izhirahider: you can still fork from the last accessible version
15:25:59  <izhirahider> Darkvater, I know that, I was just looking for the reasons other than "we're making it private" and "it's a secret" :)
15:26:00  <Biff> xfree86 did really great when they changed their license
15:26:09  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:26:18  <Darkvater> izhirahider: do we have to give you a reason?
15:26:32  <Brianetta> Devs: You might want to put somethin gon the web page, even if it's just "Don't pester us about the SVN server"
15:26:54  <peter1138> suckers :D
15:27:09  <Digitalfox> MapGen?? Hum.. Ok...
15:27:32  <izhirahider> Darkvater, of course not, but I can always ask for it
15:29:39  <Bjarni> 	<Brianetta>	Bjarni: So it's closed open source? <--- well, we can make stuff that's not accessible to the world as long as we keep GPL stuff as GPL stuff
15:29:57  <Brianetta> I know the ins and outs
15:30:00  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: you can; as long as you don't distribute anything, not even binaries
15:30:07  <Bjarni> yeah
15:30:09  *** Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
15:30:12  <Brianetta> GeniusDex: Can you see them doing either?
15:30:15  <GeniusDex> that's why you closed svn? :P
15:30:20  <Bjarni> for all you know, it's an "inhouse" development plan
15:30:23  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: nah
15:30:52  <SpComb> Logs:
15:30:52  <Frostregen> !logs
15:31:42  <Celestar> orudge: I just noticed that I have received a PM on the forums with the contents "U ARE A FAT TURD", in case you wanna know :P
15:31:54  <Darkvater> cool
15:31:59  <peter1138> heh
15:31:59  <Darkvater> Celestar: can you forward it to me?
15:32:10  <Celestar> Darkvater: what for ? :P
15:32:14  <peter1138> you want a fat turd too?
15:32:19  <Darkvater> yes please!
15:32:28  <Celestar> and no, there is no forward button
15:32:36  <Bjarni> damn, people stopped PMing me. Celestar is more popular
15:32:54  <Brianetta>
15:32:56  <Brianetta> n-joke (:
15:33:00  <Brianetta> in-joke (:
15:33:30  <orudge> [15:31:44] <Celestar> orudge: I just noticed that I have received a PM on the forums with the contents "U ARE A FAT TURD", in case you wanna know :P <-- that's nice, who from?
15:33:37  <Darkvater> Brianetta: I like the screenshot; very fitting
15:33:51  <Brianetta> Darkvater: That was unintentional (:
15:33:55  <Darkvater> damn, it's gone now
15:33:57  <Brianetta> serendipitous
15:36:39  <Darkvater> someone asked about the bridge-water thing: cause bridges are not black-holes/teleporters only the bridge-head is actually stored in the map
15:36:45  <Darkvater> and well; that cannot contain water
15:36:50  <peter1138> s/not/now/
15:36:50  <Darkvater> as the bridge would sink
15:36:51  <Brianetta> ah
15:36:56  <Brianetta> Understanding dawns
15:36:59  <Darkvater> yes now
15:37:51  <GeniusDex> sinking bridges, cool
15:37:56  * Brianetta isn't useful enough )-:
15:40:40  <Bjarni> is there anybody in here, who can keep a secret?
15:40:50  * Brianetta waves
15:41:01  <Bjarni> so can I :P
15:41:02  <GeniusDex> i could
15:41:15  <GeniusDex> and the chance of having anybody who can keep a secret in 85 people isn't too small
15:42:03  <hylje> :p
15:42:16  <Bjarni> but now I will tell you something... this whole secret thing.... is a joke because the svn server broke and cut anonymous access off :P
15:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't
15:42:29  <Bjarni> but don't tell Eddi|zuHause3
15:42:30  <Brianetta> D'oh
15:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i should not have told that, but...
15:42:39  <Brianetta> I was only in on a secret for two minutes ):
15:43:14  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: bah, you ruined my day by telling that! ;)
15:43:34  <Bjarni> :P:
15:43:40  <Bjarni> o_O
15:43:42  <Bjarni> :P
15:43:54  *** Digitalfox_ [] has joined #openttd
15:45:09  <Bjarni> good thing I made up that broken svn thing. Now #openttd thinks that there are no secrets again :D
15:45:11  <GeniusDex> hm, i should get code of mine into all major project's cores... that way thay can never change license without asking me!
15:45:15  <Bjarni> Do't
15:45:19  <Bjarni> *Doh
15:45:23  <Bjarni> wrong channel :(
15:45:24  <ln-> 17:40 <@Bjarni> is there anybody in here, who can keep a secret?  <-- there shouldn't be a comma there.
15:45:29  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8157 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp:
15:45:29  <CIA-1> -Fix (r3136): moving cargo during auto replaces did not update the cached
15:45:29  <CIA-1> vehicle weight for trains properly. This caused (in network games) the server to
15:45:29  <CIA-1> have a different cached vehicle weight than newly joined clients would have,
15:45:29  <CIA-1> which causes desyncs.
15:45:40  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes, possibly
15:46:09  <peter1138> ln-: bjarni is comma-man
15:47:00  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Is that commit what I think it is? (-:
15:47:06  <GeniusDex> comma's, are good
15:47:14  <Sacro> indeed, they are
15:47:19  <Brianetta> You're allowed, to put ocmmas, wherever the, hell, you like,.
15:47:19  <peter1138> Brianetta: hopefully
15:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> there has to be a comma in german
15:47:26  <Brianetta> commas, too
15:47:27  <Rubidium> Brianetta: hopefully, but there might be other places
15:47:31  <GeniusDex> ecmmas
15:47:39  <Rubidium> where desyncs come from
15:47:44  <GeniusDex> hm, i even typo'd a typo
15:47:46  <Brianetta> yeah
15:47:47  <Sacro> Brianetta: that sounds asthmatic
15:47:59  <Brianetta> Sacro:* wheeze*
15:48:08  <GeniusDex> Rubidium: i'd try the desynch factory
15:48:44  <Rubidium> where would that be?
15:48:50  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:49:02  *** Digitalfox_ is now known as Digitalfox
15:49:03  <Darkvater> desyncland
15:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> mommy, where do the little desyncs come from?
15:51:15  <Bjarni> they appear when two big desyncs are too close to each other
15:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> but seriously now, in german, everywhere, where two finite verb forms appear, there has to be a comma in between. (exception, a few cases where scentences are joined with 'and')
15:51:46  <peter1138> yes, but english isn't german
15:51:48  <GeniusDex> yay for exception
15:51:52  <Bjarni> hehe
15:51:55  <GeniusDex> peter1138: it ain't? damn, world news
15:51:56  <GeniusDex> stop the press!
15:52:16  <Bjarni> I like this rule "everywhere this is true, except when it's not"
15:52:19  <peter1138> in that sentence, i wouldn't but a comma after everywhere or appear
15:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i never really got taught the comma rules of english
15:52:37  <peter1138> pause = comma, basically
15:52:59  <Darkvater> and a comma before, and
15:53:03  <Sacro> yes, because that means you dont need the word
15:53:09  <Darkvater> that is what struck me as odd
15:53:11  <Darkvater> btw
15:53:17  <Sacro> i went, downstairs, to the toilet
15:53:18  <Darkvater> Rubidium: awesome desync fix0rz0rz
15:53:28  <Sacro> you can skip downstairs, and the sentance still has meaning
15:53:34  <peter1138> Rubidium:
15:53:39  <peter1138> find the rest :D
15:53:43  <Darkvater> hee
15:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> "where two finite verb forms appear" is a side clause, and thus has to be enclosed in commas
15:54:03  <Xera> in commas?
15:54:07  <GeniusDex> there's never a comma before and!
15:54:10  <Xera> you realise a comma is ,?
15:54:18  <peter1138> GeniusDex: there is sometimes
15:54:23  <Xera> " != ,
15:54:39  <GeniusDex> peter1138: then it's illegal and should be arrested
15:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> people, "." indicate a quote
15:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> i was quoting my previous lines
15:54:58  <GeniusDex> basically if you put ", and" you abuse and
15:55:05  <GeniusDex> even worse with ". And"
15:55:11  <peter1138> GeniusDex: not true
15:55:36  <Darkvater> no, that's english spelling
15:55:39  <peter1138> e.g. "the wires were red and blue, and yellow and green"
15:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> GeniusDex: in german, you put a comma before "and" if you join two main clauses
15:55:42  <Darkvater> at least how I learned it
15:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> otherwise not
15:55:56  <GeniusDex> Eddi|zuHause3: pf, german :P
15:56:04  <GeniusDex> peter1138: i avoid those kind of constructions :P
15:56:15  <peter1138> and ". And" is pretty common in spoken english
15:56:23  <GeniusDex> i'd say "red/blue and yellow/green"
15:56:28  <peter1138> and with my typed english :)
15:56:34  <GeniusDex> yes, everyone does it
15:56:38  <GeniusDex> but it's incorrect :P
15:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> it may be bad style, but that does not make it incorrect
15:57:13  <peter1138> And then there was light!
15:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is a bad translation ;)
15:57:48  <GeniusDex> they didn't have such advanced spelling rules when that was written
15:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> it doesn't count ;)
15:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> even worse, it is a translation of a translation of a translation
15:59:03  <GeniusDex> try that with google translate and you get nonsense!
16:03:11  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04:17  <Brianetta> Aaaargh
16:04:25  <Brianetta> this pissing burglar alarm bell is doing my head in
16:04:34  <Brianetta> please make it stop )-:
16:04:53  <Darkvater> :O
16:04:56  <Darkvater> wrong channel
16:05:19  <Brianetta> Was there a right channel?
16:05:27  <Brianetta> dingalingalingaling
16:05:37  <Bjarni> maybe #gay or something
16:05:37  <Brianetta> It's worse than hundreds of level crossings
16:05:40  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: only a left channel
16:05:40  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
16:05:42  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
16:06:56  <Bjarni> Brianetta: that live web cam.... how about improving it so it can be a little more interesting
16:06:59  <Bjarni> now it's all water
16:07:28  <Bjarni> try to trigger it to only find places with vehicles or something
16:08:13  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Feel free to suggest *any* method of finding interesting places.
16:08:42  <Xera> [16:06] <GeniusDex> Brianetta: only a left channel
16:08:43  <Xera> LOL
16:08:52  <Brianetta> It stopped
16:08:53  <Bjarni> that depends on the implementation
16:08:54  <Brianetta> the bell stopped
16:09:00  <Brianetta> It's going to start again
16:09:07  <Brianetta> there goes the beep of the third floor sensor
16:09:09  * GeniusDex ponders pushing the bell button
16:09:14  <Brianetta> here we go again
16:09:22  <Brianetta> Bjarni: It's autopilot
16:09:30  <Brianetta> It has access to the dedicated server
16:09:41  <Bjarni> but how do it access the screen?
16:09:53  <Brianetta> COmmands available are scrollto and screenshot
16:09:59  <Brianetta> it uses one, then the other.
16:09:59  <Bjarni> ahh
16:10:05  <Bjarni> hmm
16:10:23  <GeniusDex> can a dedicated server do screenshots?
16:10:29  <Bjarni> yes
16:10:33  <Brianetta> Bearing in mind that screenshot is a deprecated command now (for dediservers) and you'll see that new commands aren't going to appear.
16:10:39  <GeniusDex> never knew
16:11:01  <GeniusDex> ooh, water!
16:11:08  <SpComb> so the dedicated server has a complete gfx renderer?
16:11:12  <Brianetta> I'm probably the only person in the universe who uses dedicated server screenshots
16:11:14  <Bjarni> I got an idea, but it will have to add a new command line option. Centre on vehicle X or centre on random vehicle
16:11:18  <Brianetta> SpComb: Indeed it has
16:11:28  <Brianetta> SpComb: Hence the low resolution - reduces CPU use
16:11:34  <GeniusDex> SpComb: as far as i'm aware it's the complete game, just without a GFX-output
16:11:46  <SpComb> does it render it all the time or only when you request a screenshot?
16:11:52  <Brianetta> All the time.
16:11:59  <Brianetta> Messages, everything.
16:12:00  <Bjarni> we got plans to completely skip all gfxs for dedicated servers though
16:12:01  <SpComb> how unoptimal
16:12:05  <Brianetta> Even the toolbars.
16:12:13  <Brianetta> And, if enabled, the finances screen.
16:12:21  <SpComb> hack the sources to render snapshots of terrain only
16:12:21  <Bjarni> <SpComb>	how unoptimal <-- yeah and that's why we will do something about it... eventually
16:13:03  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7586
16:13:04  <_42_> Commit by rubidium :: r7586 /trunk/road_gui.c (2006-12-28 00:57:56 UTC)
16:13:06  <_42_> -Fix (FS#473): remove the Landscaping toolbar option from the Road Construction toolbar in the scenario editor, as there is another Lanscaping GUI in the scenario editor and launching that one could confuse users.
16:13:13  <Brianetta> I igure, as long as it *is* rendering everything, I might as well make use of that and have a webcam.
16:13:17  <Brianetta> figure
16:13:18  <SpComb> your bot's flood control algorithm fails
16:14:33  <Brianetta> whose?
16:14:38  <Rubidium> Darkvater: what are you looking for?
16:14:40  <SpComb> _42_
16:15:04  <Darkvater> Rubidium: nothing, a GUI-glitch
16:15:13  <SpComb> it doesn't even reply to CTCP version D:
16:15:25  <GeniusDex> SpComb: CTCP is in no way required
16:15:46  <SpComb> hmm... 18:15:38 -!- Server load is temporarily too heavy. Please wait a while and try again.
16:15:51  <SpComb> how random
16:16:02  <Tron_> !openttd commit 8152
16:16:02  <_42_> Commit by tron :: r8152 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp (2007-01-16 08:10:29 UTC)
16:16:04  <GeniusDex> O_o
16:16:04  <_42_> Fix a off-by-one error in the placement of the sticky box of the road build toolbar in the scenario editor
16:16:05  <Tron_> Rubidium: this
16:16:14  <SpComb> that was from a /wii _42_
16:16:19  <GeniusDex> SpComb: that message is evil
16:16:21  <SpComb> a few seconds later it worked again
16:16:23  <SpComb> it's rather random
16:16:29  <GeniusDex> true
16:16:43  <GeniusDex> usually inacurrate as well as far as i've seen
16:16:45  * SpComb tickets it
16:19:22  <GeniusDex> hm, whoever did those config overrides in src/openttd.cpp didn't do it well for forking
16:19:35  <GeniusDex> it first forks, then disables the forking option if it's not dedicated
16:23:13  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:28:44  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8158 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: The submarine disaster failed to move at all due to wrong masking of trackbits
16:33:09  <peter1138> Darkvater: what revision!
16:33:12  <peter1138> ;p
16:33:18  <Darkvater> donnu
16:33:27  <Darkvater> (runknown) looks crappy
16:35:11  <Darkvater> pre r1
16:36:05  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...]
16:38:54  *** Xera [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:39:00  *** Xera [] has joined #openttd
16:42:22  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
16:49:26  <peter1138> hehe
16:49:36  <GeniusDex> r-1
16:51:10  <Brianetta> Can you get submarines in canals?
16:52:05  <Tron_> hm, can you bulldoze tiles with submarines?
16:52:29  <Darkvater> yes
16:52:36  <Darkvater> you can even terraform those tiles
16:52:42  <Brianetta> Can NFO make a submarine that submerges (becomes invisible) and surfaces at a destination dock?
16:52:47  <Brianetta> Wait, of course it can
16:52:50  <peter1138> no
16:53:11  <peter1138> oh, as a normal vehicle
16:53:13  <Tron_> hm, this should maybe get fixed
16:53:23  <peter1138> probably then
16:53:31  <peter1138> i'd like to see that actually :)
16:54:09  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8159 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: Sprinkle some coding-style and comments on the disaster code.
16:54:12  <Brianetta> peter1138: It'd need careful graphics overriding for its properties window when submerged.
16:54:23  <Tron_> Brianetta: first you would have to write the save/load stuff twice this way. bad idea. this will lead to problems
16:54:46  <peter1138> regarding the savegame/network transfer thread?
16:54:50  <Brianetta> Tron_: Hence the drawbacks I mentioned
16:54:57  <Tron_> Brianetta: second there is no such thing as a "self documenting format", because there is more than syntax. The semantics is the problem
16:55:26  <Tron_> if there is an unknown property in some structure. how should it get handled?
16:55:29  <Tron_> dropped?
16:55:32  <Brianetta> yes
16:55:32  <Tron_> copied?
16:55:37  <Brianetta> dropped
16:55:49  <Brianetta> preserved for saving perhaps
16:55:56  <peter1138> preserved?
16:55:57  <peter1138> hmm
16:56:11  <Brianetta> like when you edit an NT policy without all the adm files
16:56:14  <peter1138> that's pretty ridiculous :-)
16:56:21  <Tron_> what if this new property leads to another combination of other properties, which is from the current point of view inconsistent
16:56:25  <Frostregen> maybe there could be two formats. the current for network exchange, and a descriptive for saving (between versions)
16:56:37  <Tron_> i.e. there are to properties, both looked at them alone have a known state
16:56:39  <Brianetta> Tron_: If it leads to something, those somethings are almost certainly also unknown
16:56:45  <Tron_> but together they are inconsistent
16:56:56  <Brianetta> It's as simple as ignoring HTML tags you don't know, if you're a browser.
16:56:59  <Tron_> but some other unknown modification sees this combination as consistent
16:57:03  <Tron_> what to do now?
16:57:09  <Tron_> have some fix routine?
16:57:13  <Tron_> but how to fix it?
16:57:18  <Brianetta> How to fix what?
16:57:21  <Brianetta> You're just ranting
16:57:26  <Tron_> no, i'm not
16:57:43  <Brianetta> Well, you're certainly not illustrating your point.
16:57:51  <Tron_> see above
16:57:57  <Tron_> to properties with known values
16:58:03  <Brianetta> known properties
16:58:04  <Tron_> but the combination should not exist
16:58:14  <Tron_> s/to prop/two prop/
16:58:28  <Brianetta> if the combination should not exist, how was it saved?
16:58:40  <Tron_> some modification wrote this value combination, because it was perfectly consistent there
16:58:43  <Wolf01> bye
16:58:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
16:59:06  <Brianetta> Some modification obviously isn't writing =saved game information properly.
16:59:19  <Tron_> no, it was perfectly ok there
16:59:29  <Brianetta> Especially as that modification's author could have known that this was the case
16:59:37  <Brianetta> and should mark some, or all of it, as disposable.
16:59:38  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
16:59:42  <Darkvater> having 2 save-formats is really bad
16:59:45  <Tron_> because the modification brought some extension which regarded this combination as perfectly ok
16:59:51  <Darkvater> leads to double maintenance, double or even more bugs
16:59:53  <Brianetta> hence, self-documenting.
16:59:58  <Darkvater> and infinitely more work
17:00:05  <Tron_> Brianetta: you are not listeing
17:00:09  <Brianetta> Themeta-data shoudl tell the load parser more information than simple game data.
17:00:18  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Damn right
17:00:24  <Brianetta> Darkvater: You read my post, then
17:01:11  <GeniusDex> url? [/lazy]
17:01:14  <Darkvater> is that present or past tense?
17:01:18  <Brianetta> past
17:02:11  <Brianetta> Of course, this all represents a large amount of work, and the luxury benefits... ... need to be weighed up against the upheaval, the sustained, intensive testing that a new saved game format would require and the extra work that would have to be taken on by unpaid devs to do this.
17:02:47  <Brianetta> but it looks like Tron started to lay into me after the second paragraph
17:02:58  <peter1138> i think it's pointless
17:03:02  <Brianetta> So do I
17:03:03  <Tron_> i just explained that it cannot work
17:03:08  <Brianetta> I just had is as AN advantage
17:03:13  <peter1138> the people who want to read the data wouldn't know what to do with it anyway
17:03:20  <peter1138> a dump of the map... how useful
17:03:31  <Brianetta> The only thing I could come up with was an external scenario editor
17:03:47  <Brianetta> and possibly Patch compatibility, if they engaged in similar work
17:04:34  <Brianetta> GeniusDex: Found it -
17:04:42  <GeniusDex> thank you :)
17:05:04  <Darkvater> we already have (or better said, had) patch compatibility
17:05:15  <Darkvater> they just changed the water-code and we haven't update
17:05:17  <Darkvater> +d
17:05:29  <Brianetta> They broke it?  They should fix it (:
17:05:38  <Darkvater> hehe
17:05:42  <Brianetta> Seriously
17:05:50  <Tron_> Darkvater: changed the water code?
17:05:55  <Brianetta> OpenTTD is the bestest.
17:06:05  <GeniusDex> this sounds like overrating XML to me
17:06:22  <Brianetta> The single-platform shall bow to the multi-platform product.
17:06:27  *** Xera [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:06:31  <Darkvater> well coastal lines in ttdp
17:06:32  <Brianetta> GeniusDex: XML can be pressed into that sort of task.
17:06:33  *** Xera [] has joined #openttd
17:06:33  <Darkvater> it's water
17:06:36  <Darkvater> or non-water
17:06:38  <Darkvater> something like that
17:06:39  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: XML can do about everything
17:06:40  <Brianetta> GeniusDex: We used it in X2 and X3
17:06:47  <Darkvater> just try to load a ttdp game from a recent TTDP
17:06:47  <GeniusDex> that doesn't mean it's always the best tool for the job
17:06:49  <Brianetta> to contain th eentire universe state
17:06:54  <Darkvater> you'll get spammed with asserts
17:07:08  <GeniusDex> XML could store all data in an SQL database
17:07:08  <peter1138> Darkvater: we can fix that, if we could be bothered...
17:07:08  <Brianetta> And it does, in X3
17:07:17  <Darkvater> yes
17:07:20  <GeniusDex> but it's far from practical and efficient
17:07:20  <Darkvater> I had plans
17:07:22  <Brianetta> the XML for the game data is generated from a database
17:07:32  <Brianetta> besides, once again
17:07:47  <Brianetta> I only brought up "this is something that XML and similar very definitely are designed to handle" as an example
17:08:03  <Brianetta> and aside from that, and a mention that XML tag compress well, I didn't suggest using it.
17:08:23  <peter1138> Darkvater: interestingly enough, if you load the water grf the sprites it uses are available
17:08:32  <peter1138> although it'll still crash at some point
17:09:22  <Brianetta> I'd like everybody here to know, including Tron, that when I make posts onthe forum about technical issues, I do not have an agenda.
17:09:35  <Brianetta> I don't even care how OpenTTD works underneath.
17:09:57  <Brianetta> I like to understand how it works, but I do not press for change in anything other than what can be seen.
17:09:58  <Darkvater> peter1138: it's only an _m[] change
17:10:33  <Darkvater> I think
17:10:40  *** Olof [] has joined #openttd
17:10:53  *** Olof [] has left #openttd []
17:10:55  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
17:10:56  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
17:10:56  <peter1138> yes
17:11:23  <peter1138> to work properly we'd need to test for tileh on water tiles
17:11:34  <peter1138> then it can be converted to a normal plain tile
17:11:49  <peter1138> but there are many other things which cause problems...
17:13:16  <Darkvater> I've only seen the water tiles
17:13:26  <Darkvater> industries most likely break with newindustries used
17:14:47  <hylje> hm
17:16:01  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...]
17:16:49  <peter1138> yeah
17:16:58  <peter1138> stations won't work, heh
17:18:07  <Darkvater> newstations?
17:18:14  <peter1138> yeah
17:18:35  <Darkvater> how hard would it be converting that?
17:20:15  <Darkvater> some bitshuffling only no>
17:23:59  *** Tron_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:26:07  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
17:33:01  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
17:38:25  <peter1138> we'd need to load their mapping table
17:41:17  <Darkvater> ugh
17:44:13  *** prakti [] has joined #openttd
17:45:06  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8160 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix (r8151): Do not use HasSignals on tiles without railways.
17:47:42  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
17:57:05  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:57:23  <Wolf01> ello
18:04:09  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-225-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:04:11  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-225-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
18:08:55  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
18:10:19  *** green-devil [] has quit []
18:10:22  <SpComb> Logs:
18:10:22  <Digitalfox> !logs
18:21:24  <raimar2> a snapshot of MPAI was released!
18:22:33  *** ArmEagle_ [] has joined #openttd
18:22:51  <Wolf01> i like that AI, it is more locomotionish and less spaghettish
18:23:51  *** ArmEagle [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:23:52  <Wolf01> but why .gz a diff?
18:23:55  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
18:24:49  <raimar2> space
18:25:30  <peter1138> to compress it...
18:26:34  <Tron> i have >100k diffs sometimes
18:26:45  <Tron> gziping them is quite sensible
18:27:04  <GeniusDex> >100k?
18:27:09  <GeniusDex> i have ones that are >100k when gzipped
18:27:09  <Tron> sure
18:27:37  <Tron> a hint for viewing gziped textfiles: zless
18:27:46  <peter1138> GeniusDex: svn delete *
18:27:47  <peter1138> :)
18:27:49  <Wolf01> don't bother i'll never download it, i won't understand it... and 1MB or 1k don't make difference for me
18:27:54  <GeniusDex> i open 'm in mcview/mcedit, they seem to gunzip automatically
18:27:55  <GeniusDex> peter1138: close
18:28:06  <GeniusDex> peter1138: they're a diff from a version before a complete move of all files and a version after
18:28:20  <GeniusDex> yet it's still roughly the same size as the entire package :P
18:28:27  <GeniusDex> gzip'd, that is
18:30:41  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
18:32:02  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8161 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (FS#555, r8144): enroute_from_xy was not set properly for old savegames.
18:35:59  <Brianetta> MASS desync
18:36:01  <Brianetta> all players
18:37:38  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> White Rabbit has left the game (desync error)
18:37:38  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> Devil has left the game (desync error)
18:37:38  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> scia has left the game (desync error)
18:37:38  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has left the game (desync error)
18:37:38  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> Ed has left the game (desync error)
18:37:40  <Rubidium> Brianetta: that was kind of expectable with the patch you've got applied
18:37:41  <Brianetta> 18:35 <sarah_pilot> RichK has left the game (desync error)
18:37:57  <Brianetta> It was like a desync nuke
18:38:17  <GeniusDex> Rubidium: crash options are cool
18:38:57  <Rubidium> Brianetta: it is due to the fact that for your server the cached variable of rail vehicles are recalculated every tick (where that doesn't happen for the clients)
18:38:58  <GeniusDex> especially if you have a plugin-based app and it can still crash on a certain command once the plugin providing the crash has been removed
18:40:04  <Brianetta> Rubidium: So it's likely to cause desyncs on-time, rather than later?
18:40:19  <Rubidium> Brianetta: yes, for the current version of the server
18:40:55  <peter1138> hmm
18:41:03  <peter1138> i wonder what other desyncs there are...
18:42:16  <Brianetta> There will be a few
18:42:18  <Brianetta> undiscovered
18:42:22  <Brianetta> unlikely
18:43:01  <peter1138> no doubt
18:45:25  <Brianetta> Do I grind coffee beans or warm a tea pot?
18:45:29  <Brianetta> There's the dilemma
18:45:30  <peter1138> tea
18:45:30  <CIA-1> miham * r8162 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:30  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-16 19:44:34
18:45:30  <CIA-1> brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed, 66 changed by fukumori (67)
18:45:30  <CIA-1> catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
18:45:30  <CIA-1> czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
18:45:32  <CIA-1> danish - 1 fixed, 1 changed by MiR (1), ThomasA (1)
18:45:32  <CIA-1> french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
18:45:35  <Brianetta> tea it is
18:45:55  <Brianetta> ew, old tealeaves
18:46:55  * Brianetta microwaves the teapot
18:47:18  <Brianetta> Earl grey, since it's an hour until Helen comes in
18:47:34  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
18:48:01  <Tron> <peter1138> i wonder what other desyncs there are... <--- it is way way way better today than it was
18:48:24  <Brianetta> Much to be thankful to peter1138 for, there
18:48:33  <Tron> even two players in the same company fiddling with the same vehicle depot in the same frame would wreak havoc
18:48:55  <Tron> one could sell a vehicle and the other do something else -> BANG
18:49:19  <Tron> now there are checks the vehicle you are trying to manipulate is actually of the correct type and belongs to you
18:49:34  <Brianetta> What happens to simultaneous commands now?
18:49:34  <Tron> which also has the second effect of preventing exploits
18:49:42  <Tron> Brianetta: nothing in particular
18:49:49  <Brianetta> say, star vehicle / sell vehicle
18:49:52  <Brianetta> on the same vehicle
18:50:06  <Tron> first case: first start, then sell
18:50:12  <Tron> vehicle gets started
18:50:23  <Tron> trying to sell a not-stopped vehicle: error
18:50:23  <Brianetta> but never makes i tover the fence...
18:50:28  <Brianetta> ah
18:50:32  <Brianetta> so they get ordered somehow
18:50:35  <Tron> it's just a regular check
18:50:37  <Brianetta> on the server
18:50:44  <Tron> before you could sell vehicles /anywhere/
18:50:48  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: i'd say it's just whatever the server recieves first gets processed first
18:50:49  <Brianetta> or can't they be simultaneous?
18:50:55  <Tron> of course they get ordered
18:51:04  <Tron> but the order is the order the server receives them
18:51:04  <GeniusDex> it's not multi-threading
18:51:11  <Tron> the server handles one command at a time
18:51:29  <Brianetta> fair enough
18:51:30  <Tron> no, nothing can happen simultaneous
18:51:40  <Tron> the main logic is stricly sequential
18:51:44  <Tron> no parallelism
18:51:47  <Brianetta> That works a lot like Tcl's event loop
18:51:54  <Brianetta> It seems multitasking at first
18:51:55  <GeniusDex> parallelism is evil
18:52:00  <Brianetta> but with no semaphoring, no risk
18:52:21  <Brianetta> tasks that are going to run, queue up
18:52:26  <Tron> you cannot do the game logic parallel without MUCH hassle
18:52:32  <Tron> so many things depend on other things
18:52:42  <GeniusDex> parallel processing is a bitch
18:52:48  <Brianetta> unless we were to go the Quake route, and have lossy stuff
18:52:53  <Tron> until you have checked if you can do some things in parallel you could as well have done them sequential
18:52:55  <Tron> ly
18:52:55  <Brianetta> I think that could fail, big time
18:53:19  <Tron> the quake main logic is sequential, too
18:53:19  <GeniusDex> if you can't split up tasks easily, don't
18:53:44  <Tron> all which can happen is that input from players gets dropped along the way (because UDP is unreliable)
18:53:58  <Tron> if the loss is small, you don't even notice it
18:54:18  <Tron> because if a client send movement commands it always sends the last 3
18:54:41  <Brianetta> The server doesn't desync, so much as resync
18:54:48  <Tron> that's a different story
18:54:48  <Brianetta> because it's low cost
18:54:52  <Brianetta> yeah
18:54:55  <Tron> quake has a VERY small game state
18:55:04  <Brianetta> resyncing openttd is like reconneccting
18:55:06  <Tron> also latency is everything in this game
18:55:12  <Brianetta> so might as well disconnect and let player choose
18:55:21  <Tron> clients predict from their local information what could happen
18:55:24  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
18:55:31  <Tron> and the server repeatedly sends the correct state
18:55:50  <Tron> ottd works /totally/ differnt
18:55:58  <Tron> you only get the game state /once/
18:56:04  <Brianetta> We could do that if we couldn't edit terrain, tracks, etc, etc.. (-:
18:56:17  <Tron> after this you only get player commands
18:56:20  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: streaming a fixed movie is indeed easier ;)
18:56:26  * Brianetta looks for his tea strainer
18:56:34  <Tron> absolutly no state is exchanged after connecting
18:56:40  * Brianetta nods
18:56:57  <Brianetta> I do understand the OpenTTD multiplayer protocol, in the main
18:57:01  <Tron> so losing any bit of input is fatal in ottd
18:57:09  <Brianetta> lock-step simulation, with seed checks
18:57:16  <Tron> because all clients and the server simulate the whole game
18:57:22  <Brianetta> yes
18:57:49  <Brianetta> That tea isn't ready ):
18:58:13  <Tron> which would also have the nice side effect (/if/ the implementation was perfect) that not even the server could cheat
18:58:15  <peter1138> hmm
18:58:40  <peter1138> yeah, those fps games seem to be rife with cheating
18:58:41  <Tron> also direct exchange of commands between the clients would be necessary
18:58:53  <Tron> peter1138: that's another story
18:59:01  <Tron> the problem with cheating there is
18:59:11  <peter1138> aimbots, hee
18:59:30  <Tron> 1. the user interface is part of the game "logic"
18:59:55  <Brianetta> OpenTTD players could cheat easily, IFF cheating entailed seeing other company information.  It doesn't.  So, the equivalent of an invisible walls cheat isn't a threat.
18:59:57  <Tron> 2. the client program knows information the player should not know
19:00:16  <Brianetta> aka, Tron's point 2
19:00:20  <Tron> 3. writing a good "AI" for quake is rather trivial
19:00:35  <Brianetta> Imagine an OpenTTD aimbot
19:00:43  <Brianetta> it'd be committed to trunk as an AI the same day (:
19:00:49  <peter1138> heh
19:00:52  <Tron> Brianetta: yeah, you could do knowledge cheating in OTTD
19:01:15  <Tron> but what for? you can totally legally watch all information
19:01:28  <Brianetta> nearly all
19:01:32  <Tron> ok, not all. there is no interface to look at other people's train replacements
19:01:38  <Brianetta> there's currently no interface for seeing shared order lists
19:01:44  <Tron> but i don't really consider this a problem
19:01:48  * Brianetta nods
19:01:52  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
19:02:04  <Brianetta> This is why spectating isn't boring
19:02:22  <Brianetta> especially if a company is close to failure
19:02:24  <Tron> writing an "aimbot" for ottd would mean writing a damn good AI
19:03:05  <GeniusDex> something to analyse the playing field to start with wouldn't be hard
19:03:15  <GeniusDex> which lines would give nice profit, what are your competitors doing, etc
19:03:25  <Brianetta> Tron: My point (:
19:03:28  <GeniusDex> would save you some time figuring that out
19:03:44  <Brianetta> GeniusDex: Tactical overview
19:03:51  <Tron> GeniusDex: i could imagine having more complex statistics as a normal part of the game
19:04:00  <Brianetta> Something like that, well written, might be well received
19:04:16  <Tron> Brianetta: My point (;
19:04:20  <GeniusDex> it's part of the game to figure out yourself how to get the best profit tho
19:04:26  <Brianetta> Warning that a competitor is laying on a service near yours, etc
19:04:49  <GeniusDex> keeping an eye on competitors is more useful yes
19:05:05  <Brianetta> we'd need an improved news interface
19:05:11  <Brianetta> a timely one
19:05:11  <Tron> ottd is simply totally different from quake so the problems are totally different
19:05:19  <Brianetta> Tron: Yeah
19:05:37  <peter1138> mostly they're "social" problems rather than cheating
19:05:38  <Brianetta> I wonder how close RTS games are
19:05:44  <Tron> especially wrt multiplayer i think we have less unsolvable problems
19:05:54  <peter1138> blocking tactics
19:06:03  <Tron> if you want to prevent most of the problems in quake the server would have to send prerendered images
19:06:11  <Brianetta> peter1138: The solution there might always be an admin
19:06:17  <Brianetta> Heuristic solutions are flawed
19:06:22  <Tron> Brianetta: RTS mostly suffer from knowledge cheating
19:06:25  <Brianetta> unless what they do is *page* an admin
19:06:45  <Tron> prominent example: removing the fog of war in Starcraft
19:06:50  <Brianetta> ah
19:06:51  <Brianetta> yeah
19:06:55  <Tron> your client /knows/ all units on the map
19:07:12  <Brianetta> no fog on TT
19:07:12  <Tron> you just have to overwrite the "here is fog of war" bits in memory
19:07:22  <Brianetta> Some servers disable FoW
19:07:38  * peter1138 ponders ottd with fow
19:07:47  <peter1138> have to guess where the industries are
19:07:48  <peter1138> hehe
19:07:48  <Tron> that's one way to "solve" the problem
19:07:55  <Tron> defining the problem as the solution
19:08:00  <Brianetta> Oooh, speaking of admin
19:08:03  <Tron> you could accuse TT of doing that
19:08:06  <Brianetta> there's an argument brewing on my server
19:10:11  <Dextro> hum... crash when trying to place a sign on a tunnel entrance apparently but I need to double-check
19:10:50  <Dextro> yhep, straight crash
19:11:04  <Dextro> r8155
19:11:15  <peter1138> doing what?
19:11:28  <Dextro> <Dextro> hum... crash when trying to place a sign on a tunnel entrance apparently but I need to double-chec
19:11:39  <peter1138> ok
19:11:41  <peter1138> specifically
19:11:45  <peter1138> i can place signs on tunnel entrances
19:11:49  <Brianetta> defused
19:12:29  <Brianetta> Dextro: Which version?
19:12:30  <Dextro> gonna check against latest revision
19:12:46  <Rubidium> what language are you using?
19:12:48  <Dextro> Dextro> hum... crash when trying to place a sign on a tunnel entrance apparently but I need to double-check
19:12:48  <Dextro> <Dextro> yhep, straight crash
19:12:48  <Dextro> <Dextro> r8155
19:12:50  <Dextro> english
19:13:30  <Dextro> it isn't crashing on the latest revision
19:13:30  * Rubidium cannot recreate it in 8161
19:13:45  <Dextro> I was just compiling that version to check myself
19:13:49  <Dextro> no crash
19:13:50  <Brianetta> Does anybody care a jot about ALSA warnings if the sound still works?
19:14:24  <peter1138> Dextro: hmm, sign or signal?
19:14:33  <Dextro> signal
19:14:35  <Dextro> my mistake :$
19:14:36  <peter1138> right
19:14:38  <Brianetta> How would you signal a tunnel entrance?
19:14:39  <peter1138> totally different thing
19:14:46  <Brianetta> oh, is that a post-0.5 thing?
19:14:48  <Dextro> You wouldn't, I pressed on it by mistake
19:14:56  <peter1138> yes, that was known and fixed
19:15:18  <Dextro> Yeah, just a couple of revisions after my compile LOL
19:15:33  <peter1138> how can you confuse signs and signals? :P
19:15:39  <Brianetta> sig*
19:15:43  <Brianetta> sign*
19:15:54  <Dextro> peter1138, a full year without exercising my english
19:15:56  <hylje> sigs, signs, signals
19:17:07  <Brianetta> Oooh, aa payslip on my doormat
19:17:11  <Brianetta> Is it that time already?
19:17:16  <peter1138> nio
19:17:20  <peter1138> bit early
19:17:20  <Brianetta> Ah
19:17:30  <Brianetta> Sunday is the 21st, so I get paid on Friday
19:17:42  <Brianetta> so it's just timely
19:19:04  <Brianetta> Looks like there's tension on the server
19:19:22  <Brianetta> RichK and Akalamanaia
19:19:47  <Brianetta> Differing philosophies when it comes to good manners in play
19:20:10  <hylje> :o
19:23:59  <peter1138> hmm
19:24:10  <peter1138> i've never seen RichK in an argument...
19:24:57  <hylje> :o
19:24:59  <hylje> me neither
19:25:24  <hylje> ooo, svn is back up
19:27:06  <Wolf01> since at least one hour
19:27:14  <Belugas> [14:25] <peter1138> i've never seen RichK in an argument...  <--- I did.  ugly.  very ugly
19:27:28  <Belugas> if we're talking about richk67, of course
19:27:41  <CIA-1> miham * r8163 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt: [Translations] Re-added cases for the czech language (they were removed either accidentally or on purpose, will look after it later
19:29:47  <peter1138> hmm
19:29:55  <peter1138> i've never seen me be sarcastic...
19:31:48  *** Sacro_ [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
19:32:49  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:33:14  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
19:37:39  <XeryusTC> hmm
19:37:47  <XeryusTC> i miss a "bookmark server" button
19:39:48  <Bjarni> make one
19:40:44  * XeryusTC is scared of OTTDs code :S
19:40:48  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
19:40:52  *** Zahl22 [] has joined #openttd
19:40:55  *** Zahl [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Zahl22))]
19:40:56  *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl
19:48:33  * Bjarni puts a leash on the OTTD code
19:48:38  <Bjarni> now it can't harm you
19:48:40  <Bjarni> go ahread
19:48:44  <Bjarni> *ahead
19:50:44  <peter1138> heh
19:50:50  <peter1138> you need a muzzle
19:50:55  <Darkvater> you know, what I like about MP OpenTTD si that there are no cheats possible :)
19:51:04  <Darkvater> (except for exploiting known/unknown bugs)
19:51:15  <Darkvater> but as soon as someone cheats, the person will desync pretty soon
19:51:29  <Darkvater> we, my friends, have the ultimate anti-cheat program :)
19:51:38  <Tron> nobody is affected by doing something different on your client
19:52:11  <Tron> though you could say that some stuff what other games regard as cheat is defined to be normal game behavior (;
19:52:31  <Darkvater> oh, Tron just said that (hour ago)
19:53:12  <Bjarni> well, if you hack the source to give yourself more money, then you will desync... pretty nice protection :)
19:53:43  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
19:54:40  <peter1138> you can hack the server though...
19:54:48  <peter1138> all clients would desync, but...
19:54:55  <peter1138> grrr
19:55:05  <peter1138> fucking outlook crashed :(
19:55:16  <Bjarni> that's what you get for using MS software
19:55:16  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: don't look out of the windows :)
19:55:38  <scia> I always wondered why dessert towns don't need sidewalks in OpenTTD :p
19:55:44  <peter1138> hmmmm
19:55:51  <scia> *desert
19:55:53  <peter1138> it won't restart :/
19:56:44  <Darkvater> 20:29 < peter1138> i've never seen me be sarcastic... << ^_^'
19:56:54  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has quit [Quit: Fui embora]
19:57:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: exactly; outlook cheats!
19:58:33  <peter1138> > home
19:59:06  <Digitalfox> peter1138:  got your isp fixed?
19:59:14  <Digitalfox> *problem
19:59:41  <hylje> scia: dessert towns.. toyland? :>
20:00:00  <GeniusDex> isp, problem, what's the difference
20:01:00  <scia> i figured :D
20:06:15  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Wolfolo|AWAY))]
20:06:15  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
20:06:27  *** Zahl22 [] has joined #openttd
20:06:30  *** Zahl [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Zahl22))]
20:06:31  *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl
20:16:29  <peter1138> back
20:16:33  <Darkvater> wb
20:16:36  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8164 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Codechange (r8159): Fix up some comments/doxygen for disasters and rename Submarine1/2 to small/big
20:16:40  <peter1138> avec tea
20:16:56  <GeniusDex> i'd rename 'm to regular/yellow
20:18:20  <Darkvater> 21:16 < Darkvater> tea's good
20:18:51  <GeniusDex> Darkvater: do i smell a wrong channel?
20:19:01  <Darkvater> *sniff*
20:19:04  <Darkvater> y
20:19:15  <hylje> n
20:19:19  <GeniusDex> a
20:19:20  <peter1138> no, you just smell :D
20:19:24  <GeniusDex> pf :P
20:19:30  <GeniusDex> i thought you were going to say r peter1138
20:19:51  <hylje> :p
20:20:03  <GeniusDex> yes/no/abort/reject, wasn't it?
20:20:06  <GeniusDex> dos is such a long time ago
20:20:11  <GeniusDex> or retry?
20:20:52  <hylje> retry
20:21:15  <peter1138> no
20:21:21  <peter1138> abory retry ignore fail
20:23:31  <Xera> phail
20:23:36  <Xera> :P
20:24:23  <GeniusDex> i wonder why has weather reports for about all bigger cities in the netherlands apart from the one i'm living near
20:31:35  *** valcalculus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:32:16  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
20:40:48  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:43:15  *** Xera [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43:39  *** silent [~pwr@] has joined #openttd
20:54:20  <Darkvater> peter1138: I think we should make sprite_cache_size to 2MB for 0.5 as well
20:54:40  <Darkvater> question is if to just hardcode this, or add a compile-flag?
20:55:30  <peter1138> just add an *2, heh
20:55:46  <peter1138> though
20:55:51  <peter1138> easy enough to make it a compile flag
20:56:01  <peter1138> just wrap it with #ifndef ...
20:56:04  <Darkvater> heh, I was thinking of making it a bit more customizable
20:56:25  <Darkvater> although celestar's idea wasn't that bad either, cli command and alloc once
20:57:37  <peter1138> i think a define's good enough for 0.5
20:57:53  <Darkvater> how do I add it? :O
20:57:58  <peter1138> how?
20:57:59  <Darkvater> or ./configure should not support it?
20:58:10  <peter1138> make SPRITE_CACHE_SIZE=SOMETHINGBIG
20:58:10  <peter1138> :P
20:58:27  <Darkvater> that just works?
20:58:31  <peter1138> yes
20:58:37  <Darkvater> good
20:58:39  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-225-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:58:42  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-225-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
21:01:38  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:02:51  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
21:03:23  <Darkvater> hmm I saw a bugreport yesterday where someone'smoney jumped from +1 million to -12mln
21:03:26  <Darkvater> can't find it :(
21:04:40  *** sPooT [] has joined #openttd
21:05:32  <Rubidium> Darkvater: that's because I closed it
21:05:45  <Rubidium> was FS#555
21:06:02  <Darkvater> ah
21:06:13  <Darkvater> why can't the search find it?
21:06:22  <Darkvater> he
21:06:29  <Darkvater> I was using the wrong keywords
21:06:33  <Bjarni> searched open ones only?
21:06:36  <Bjarni> ahh
21:06:42  <Darkvater> 'million', 'negative', 'money'
21:06:46  <Bjarni> that's another way to make it fail :P
21:06:52  <Darkvater> nothing of those even mentioned
21:08:22  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
21:08:24  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r8164 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp (2007-01-16 20:16:30 UTC)
21:08:26  <_42_> -Codechange (r8159): Fix up some comments/doxygen for disasters and rename Submarine1/2 to small/big
21:08:47  <Darkvater> what the hell happened to the good old times? Having almost 200 revisions in a week is insane!
21:09:11  <hylje> you started actually doing shit
21:09:27  <Darkvater> we should've gone private a long time ago
21:09:50  <GeniusDex> just kick the bot and noone will notice
21:10:16  <GeniusDex> btw, did you change something to the svn mails on dec 20?
21:10:25  <GeniusDex> i haven't received any since r7518
21:10:39  <Darkvater> TrueBrain handles that
21:10:43  <Darkvater> msg him
21:11:12  <GeniusDex> oh wait
21:11:15  <GeniusDex> it's actually my fault
21:11:22  <GeniusDex> that mailbox had issues since
21:11:27  <GeniusDex> i should've moved it to a different account
21:11:59  <Darkvater> peter1138: what is variable 7E (subroutine)?
21:12:20  <peter1138> newgrf fuckedupness
21:12:37  <Darkvater> I imagined, but what does/can it do?
21:13:02  <peter1138> lets a callback call another callback ^^
21:13:11  <peter1138> don't think it needs backporting
21:13:15  <Darkvater> brr
21:13:21  <Darkvater> just hearing it makes me shudder
21:13:23  <peter1138> afaik only ttrs3 uses it, heh
21:14:08  <peter1138> grrr, fucking types ;P
21:14:19  * peter1138 ponders using uint instead
21:15:20  <hylje> callback calling itself recursively
21:15:25  <peter1138> can't call itsel
21:15:26  <peter1138> +f
21:15:29  <GeniusDex> well
21:15:32  <GeniusDex> A calls B, B calls A
21:15:33  <GeniusDex> there you go
21:15:34  <hylje> all you need is a fork() implementation
21:15:35  <peter1138> nope
21:15:45  <peter1138> A can call B, but B can't call A
21:15:49  <hylje> :o
21:15:57  <peter1138> B can call C though
21:16:00  <Bjarni> <-- hmm, this is set for 0.5.0, but I don't plan on doing this for 0.5.0
21:16:12  <GeniusDex> there's workarounds for everything
21:16:33  <Bjarni> it will be double work as the makefile rewrite is partly needed and also some other code (yet to be written) will be needed
21:16:42  <GeniusDex> peter1138: calling an already called callback will break?
21:16:46  <peter1138> no
21:16:52  <Bjarni> will anybody scream if I take it off 0.5.0?
21:17:00  <peter1138> A can call B multiple times
21:17:05  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: you mean someone not screaming regardless?
21:17:17  <GeniusDex> peter1138: then why can't B call A?
21:17:18  <hylje> someone screams even if you did implement it for .5.0
21:17:21  <Bjarni> ok
21:17:38  <Bjarni> will anybody be upset at this issue if I postpone it until after 0.5.0?
21:18:08  <hylje> yes
21:18:16  *** BFM [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
21:18:16  <hylje> but as said someone will be upset anyway
21:18:25  <Bjarni> ..
21:18:30  <BFM>
21:18:55  <Bjarni> will anybody of the people present here be against me unscheduling this for 0.5.0?
21:19:25  <peter1138> i'll be upset if you repeat the question a fourth time
21:20:37  <glx> as a non-OSX user, I have no problem with this :)
21:20:45  <GeniusDex> BFM:
21:20:59  <ln-> as a semi-OSX user, I won't be upset
21:21:21  <BFM> :D
21:21:51  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Helen will forgive you, as she seems utterly uninterested in installing OpenTTD on her iBook
21:22:02  <ln-> who's Helen?
21:22:16  * Bjarni slaps ln-
21:22:22  <Bjarni> it's Helen
21:22:33  <Bjarni> Brianetta's sextoy
21:22:37  * Brianetta glares at ln-
21:22:37  <Bjarni> aka future wife
21:22:50  <Brianetta> She'll likely be at Birmingham
21:22:55  <Brianetta> and we're to be wed in November
21:23:12  <ln-> well i don't read enough backlogs to know all about your sex lives.  (although that wouldn't be too many lines, i suppose)
21:23:21  <Bjarni> ...
21:23:29  <Bjarni> with Brianetta, you never know
21:23:53  <Bjarni> he claims that he got a horny family, so it's in the genes
21:23:56  <Bjarni> or something
21:24:05  <Brianetta> I just put my left hand in the frying oil without a burn
21:24:06  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: then you have strong and weak genes
21:24:10  <Brianetta> super-power!
21:24:19  <GeniusDex> and it could just as well be a weak gene being overridden in his dna or whatever
21:24:23  <Smoovious> congrats, Brianetta
21:24:28  <Brianetta> (:
21:24:32  <GeniusDex> Brianetta: now first heat it up and then try again! :)
21:24:35  <Brianetta> I was adding the diced chicken
21:24:40  <Brianetta> it's sizzling
21:24:45  * Smoovious tips his black hat™ to Brianetta
21:24:49  <Brianetta> I had olive oil all over my fingers
21:25:01  <Brianetta> tasted nice, but no pain, no red, no burn
21:25:02  <Brianetta> weird
21:25:07  <Bjarni> and you did this while being on IRC?
21:25:21  <Bjarni> you said it as like it just happened
21:25:35  <Bjarni> but it also appeared that you didn't leave
21:25:39  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: some people have sex while on IRC
21:25:44  <GeniusDex> if i must believe
21:25:51  <Bjarni> I meant the chicken thing
21:26:00  <GeniusDex> i'm aware
21:26:06  <Bjarni> hopefully that's not sex related
21:26:09  <GeniusDex> i'd like to say that i don't have sex with chickens too
21:26:17  <Bjarni> then again, it's IRC, so you never know
21:26:36  *** green-devil [] has joined #openttd
21:26:46  <Bjarni> the law of IRC: everything you say will be made into something else
21:26:58  <Bjarni> <GeniusDex>	i'd like to say that i do have sex with chickens too
21:27:00  <Bjarni> :P
21:27:15  <GeniusDex> we call that "quote fucking"
21:27:45  <Bjarni> since when did we call chickens for quotes?
21:27:56  <Bjarni> since we turned into a farm?
21:28:24  <GeniusDex> yes
21:28:31  <GeniusDex> my livestock line from there to the factory is making nice profits
21:29:35  *** Digitalfox_ [] has joined #openttd
21:29:37  <GeniusDex> coal lines accross a 1024^2 map are nice btw
21:31:33  * Darkvater has another shitload of commits to backport
21:32:45  *** BJH2_ [] has joined #openttd
21:33:20  <Bjarni> Darkvater: remember the modified lang files ;)
21:33:21  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8186
21:33:43  <Darkvater> Bjarni: I'll backport all WT2 changes, then copy over trunk and see what's different and touch up fixes
21:33:47  * Darkvater kicks _42_
21:34:56  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8165 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Revert r8107 and show the MD5SUM of the *REPLACEMENT* grf file, NOT the original one. Reason for this is that this md5sum is saved, and otherwise a wrong md5sum would be stored in a savegame.
21:35:28  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:35:35  <peter1138> 8186? heh
21:35:50  <Darkvater> 8106 :)
21:35:58  <Darkvater> bad memory ;p
21:36:55  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:09  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
21:42:44  *** BJH2__ [] has joined #openttd
21:45:30  *** BJH2_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46:02  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:50:01  <Bjarni> get the bad memory replaced. If you got a decent brand, it will have a lifetime warranty
21:50:03  <Bjarni> :P
21:52:11  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
21:58:40  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:58:47  <GeniusDex> Bjarni: i doubt they want to give that in Darkvater's case :P
22:07:28  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
22:07:58  *** GeniusDex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:10:40  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8166 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp:
22:10:40  <CIA-1> -Fix (r7797): Protect against out of bounds access to the sprite ptr
22:10:40  <CIA-1> list.
22:20:49  *** [gen2]niki [] has joined #openttd
22:40:42  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:45:48  *** green-devil [] has quit []
22:45:56  *** silent [~pwr@] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
22:50:55  <Digitalfox> SVN is giving errors
22:51:33  <Digitalfox> "Malformed network data"
22:51:41  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
22:52:22  *** [gen2]niki [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:52:44  <blathijs> Digitalfox: It's being hacked on atm
22:52:51  <Digitalfox> ok
22:53:20  <Rubidium> and that is _not_ hacked in the sense of someone trying to gain unauthorized access
22:53:36  <blathijs> which is completely the wrong meaning of hacking anyway :-)
22:53:41  *** TrueBrain [] has joined #openttd
22:53:42  <blathijs> Digitalfox: What were you trying to do?
22:54:02  <TrueBrain> svnserve gave a moment ago malformed packets, issue is resolved
22:54:07  <Digitalfox> just seing change log with tortoise
22:54:46  <Digitalfox> Just tested and works again :)
22:56:22  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8167 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix (FS#556): a network client crashes, due to a division by zero, when the connection gets lost at the right moment or when the packet is malformed (server sends size 0 for the map).
23:01:09  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8168 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Regression (r6783): ParseConnectionstring didn't use the port parameter if a player was also specified. (both IP#Player:Port and IP:Port#Player btw)
23:18:01  *** BJH2__ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
23:25:07  <Sacro> TrueBrain: if your going to create a secret svn area, best to make sure that _42_ isnt going to grass you up to the whole channel :)
23:25:29  <TrueBrain> you mean:
23:25:33  <TrueBrain> !openttd commit 8156
23:25:34  <_42_> Commit by truelight :: r8156 (none) (2007-01-16 15:21:30 UTC)
23:25:36  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:25:53  <Sacro> hmm... it doesnt tell you what happened... but it makes Rens2Sea quit
23:26:13  <Wolf01> night all
23:26:19  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
23:27:13  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:49:19  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:59:07  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8170 /branches/0.5/ (console_cmds.c network.c network_client.c network_gui.c):
23:59:07  <CIA-1> -Backport from trunk (r7984, r8118, r8167, r8168):
23:59:07  <CIA-1>  - out-of-bounds read access on _clients array (Quark) (r7984)
23:59:07  <CIA-1>  - change the ordering of the network list (r8118)
23:59:07  <CIA-1>  - (FS#556): a network client crashes, due to a division by zero (r8167)
23:59:08  <CIA-1>  - ParseConnectionstring didn't use the port parameter if a player was also specified (r8168)

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk