Log for #openttd on 26th January 2007:
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00:00:19  <KUDr> 	} else if (_patches.disable_elrails) {
00:00:19  <KUDr> 		/* fix for r8385 - broken savegames with disabled elrail */
00:00:19  <KUDr> 		SettingsDisableElrail(true);
00:00:19  <KUDr> 	}
00:00:24  <KUDr> this works
00:00:47  <KUDr> commit?
00:01:00  <glx> where do you put it?
00:01:09  <KUDr> 1669
00:01:14  <KUDr> openttd.cpp
00:02:34  <Darkvater> looks good
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00:02:45  <glx> you can just move line 1669 two lines up
00:03:01  <Darkvater> ?
00:03:13  <KUDr> i dunno what it will do for savegames where elrails were disabled and reenable and then saved
00:04:01  <KUDr> glx: it is 'else' for "	if (CheckSavegameVersion(38)) {
00:04:02  <KUDr> "
00:05:06  <Wolf01> gn all
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00:05:21  <Darkvater> KUDr: nothing should happen no?
00:05:29  <KUDr> i dunno
00:05:36  <KUDr> but it is too late
00:05:36  <glx> I know, but the CheckSavegameVersion(38) sets _patches.disable_elrails the call         SettingsDisableElrail(_patches.disable_elrails)
00:05:53  <Darkvater> anyways, I'm a faithfull follower of peter and saying nini :)
00:06:04  <KUDr> heh
00:06:08  <KUDr> so commit or not?
00:06:19  <Darkvater> donnu what glx is saying
00:06:24  <KUDr> me too
00:06:24  <glx> so you could just move the SettingsDisableElrail(_patches.disable_elrails) outside the check
00:06:36  <Darkvater> ah
00:06:40  <KUDr> aha
00:06:51  <Darkvater> but it should not run when the value was false and the game is newer than v38
00:06:57  <KUDr> but now i don't run it when elrails are enabled
00:07:09  <KUDr> and savegame revision > 38
00:07:42  <Darkvater> KUDr: test it for disable/enable and save (what you were unsure about) then decide on what you think is best
00:07:51  <Darkvater> at least I can blame you tomorrow then ^^
00:07:52  <Darkvater> :)
00:07:54  <Darkvater> gn all
00:07:54  <KUDr> hehe
00:08:04  <KUDr> then i will go to bed
00:08:11  <KUDr> gn
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00:25:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8409 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp:
00:25:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Regression (r8049): When the latest news was deleted, the news queue wrapped back to the oldest item, showing all news again.
00:25:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Regression [FS#573] (r8049): ShowLastNewsMessage could show an out-of-bounds news item because it did not checked if a previous item actually existed the first time it is called (forced news is INVALID_NEWS).
00:30:37  <Sacro_> :o a RichK67
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01:39:20  <ln->
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01:41:51  <Smoovious> any plans for allowing more than 63 units to a train?
01:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought the limit was somewhere around 100 wagons
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01:46:19  <Smoovious> doesn't look like it
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01:59:56  <ln-> maybe the tiny depot is too small for more than 63 wagons
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02:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the limit is pretty exactly 1 engine + 99 wagons...
02:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and i get a 88 tile train that way...
02:10:02  <Smoovious> k, well... that's ok for full length cars... but for the short ore cars (on some newgrf's) would really like more... especially on the huge maps. :)
02:11:03  <Smoovious> figure it'll happen in time... another generation of computer hardware... map dimensions expanded even more... etc... :D
02:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i believe there's a hard limit of 128 in the code, and a rather arbitrary soft limit of 100
02:11:24  * Smoovious nods.
02:11:50  <Smoovious> shouldn't be that difficult to go to 256 eventually... not counting bugfixes
02:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you have now 3 options
02:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause> 1) you whine about the limit
02:12:07  <Smoovious> nobody's whining
02:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause> 2) you find the 100 define, and up that to 127 or so, whatever is safe
02:12:27  <Smoovious> doable
02:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> 3) you find the reasons of the 128 limit, and resolve these
02:12:41  <Smoovious> something for the to-do list
02:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: the video is quite interesting ;)
02:28:40  <ln-> yeah
02:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm always glad that i visited a school focused on maths and science ;)
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02:31:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> by the end of 12th class, we had almost an educational level of 2nd year maths students
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02:37:32  <ln-> how many people on the channel have some kind of military training?
02:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was in the german army for the (almost mandatory) 10 months
02:39:33  <ln-> what did you specialize in?
02:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can't do a lot of specializing in 10 months ;)
02:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> and of course i was placed on the next computer in range ;)
02:41:30  <ln-> oh, we were capable of specializing in 6 months.
02:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was in a unit of military police, but i had not much to do with that
02:42:25  <ln-> i was in the artillery
02:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> well we had some "specializing" courses, mine was called "Funkgerätebediener"
02:43:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i almost never got to use that...
02:45:44  <ln-> from what direction did your enemy approach from?
02:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> as i was stationed in west germany, it came from east :p
02:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> those "plans" probably did not change a lot in the past 50 years
02:47:24  <Frostregen> <- 3. InstBtl 220 ;)
02:50:13  <ln->
02:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> nice toys :p
02:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had to use WORD!!
02:52:34  <Frostregen> i had ;)
02:52:41  <ln-> finnish army used Lotus office software
02:53:48  <ln-> hmm, actually, "army" is not the correc term but.. defence forces
03:11:26  <Maedhros> good night
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06:25:12  <waxman> Moin
06:25:26  <waxman> sh*t i mean good morning (CET)
06:29:15  <Tron> frickelware
06:35:02  <Ailure> why did you feel the need to censor the word shit?
06:35:03  <Ailure> :)
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06:52:46  <setrodox> waxman, too many german channels you join? ;)
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07:21:55  <waxman> setrodox, too early and too little coffee
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07:22:47  <setrodox> waxman, hehe, i'm rather sleepy too atm, pulled an allnighter to do some music
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07:50:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8410 /trunk/src/engine.cpp:
07:50:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
07:50:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Fix an out of bounds array access when assigning the engine type in the _engine array
07:50:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This usually hits the _engine_name_strings array and causes an invalid StringID, though it depends on the compiler which data structure gets placed after the _engines array.
07:50:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Most probably this was exposed by removing railtype from Engine, which changed the size of this struct.
07:54:11  <KUDr> gm Tron
07:54:15  <Tron> morning
07:55:41  <KUDr> did you read #openttd log from night?
07:56:17  <KUDr> r8385 - broken savegames with disabled elrail
07:57:09  <KUDr> savegame from RC4 that had elrails, then elrails got disabled, then saved
07:57:38  <KUDr> loaded into head and trains don't move (only reversing)
07:58:17  <KUDr> toggle 'disable elrails' (off/on) solves the problem
08:00:43  <KUDr> SLE_CONDNULL(1, 0, 44) << seems to cause it
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08:20:57  <Tron> the problem is this ugly hack in general
08:21:04  <Tron> it also breaks in other circumstances
08:21:27  <Tron> for example when you reenable electrified rails electric trains still can drive on normal rails
08:21:42  <Tron> and nothing seems to change that
08:22:20  <Tron> probably the correct fix for your observed problem is
08:22:23  <Tron> -       if (CheckSavegameVersion(38)) {
08:22:23  <Tron> -               _patches.disable_elrails = false; // enable elrails
08:22:23  <Tron> -               /* do the same as when elrails were enabled/disabled manually just now */
08:22:23  <Tron> -               SettingsDisableElrail(_patches.disable_elrails);
08:22:23  <Tron> -       }
08:22:24  <Tron> +       if (CheckSavegameVersion(38)) _patches.disable_elrails = false;
08:22:26  <Tron> +       /* do the same as when elrails were enabled/disabled manually just now */
08:22:28  <Tron> +       SettingsDisableElrail(_patches.disable_elrails);
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08:28:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8411 /trunk/src/network/core/os_abstraction.h: [MorphOS] -Fix: tons of unneeded warnings in networking code, because MorphOS wants UBYTE arrays and we use char arrays. Solution is a bit hackish.
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08:36:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8412 /trunk/src/table/sprites.h: [MorphOS] -Fix: assert_compile(x != y) doesn't work, but assert_compile(!(x == y)) does.. don't ask me why!
08:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8413 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix [MORPHOS]: disable #define offsetof conflict on Morphos (seems that g++ 2.95 defines it anyway)
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09:07:14  <Tron_> hmm
09:07:30  <KUDr> i read, but still don't understand
09:07:54  <KUDr> so run the finc always..
09:07:57  <KUDr> func
09:08:16  <KUDr> probably good
09:08:48  <Tron_> stuff gets saved, which should not get saved
09:08:50  <Tron_> much stuff
09:09:29  <KUDr> yes, when i did it, guys told me it is saved, you can use it
09:09:41  <KUDr> instead of doing it after load
09:10:21  <Tron_> totally wrong approach
09:10:22  <KUDr> so we can hope that when MP client loads such game, it will not desync
09:10:50  <KUDr> that SettingsDisableElrail() will not cause differencies
09:11:11  <Tron_> when redundant stuff gets saved all it can get is inconsistent
09:11:18  <KUDr> [09:19:28] <Tron> for example when you reenable electrified rails electric trains still can drive on normal rails << this was wanted behavior
09:11:43  <KUDr> because otherwise they would stuck
09:11:58  <Tron_> misfeature at best
09:12:04  <KUDr> :))
09:12:10  <KUDr> wanted by users
09:12:32  * peter1139 mumbles something about not liking it anyway ;p
09:13:00  <peter1139> ooh, i've gained
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09:13:12  <KUDr> :) wb
09:21:58  <peter1138> Tron_: nice find on 8410 :)
09:22:40  <Tron_> watch _engine_names[14]
09:23:17  <Tron_> it also explains why somebody suddenly had this train renamed to Turner Turbo
09:23:43  <Tron_> before removing railtype the offset was different
09:23:55  <Tron_> then it overwrote the lower byte of the StringID
09:23:55  <peter1138> yes
09:24:01  <Tron_> instead of 0E it was 14
09:24:12  <peter1138> but that's... very old
09:24:12  <Tron_> and train 20 (0x14) is the Turner Turbo
09:24:31  <Tron_> peter1138: old? chu_ just mentioned it this week
09:24:36  <peter1138> i know
09:24:42  <Tron_> i have never seen this phenomen before
09:24:43  <peter1138> i mean the line you removed
09:24:47  <peter1138> that's what i meant
09:25:05  <Tron_> ah
09:25:28  <Tron_> probably at some point the order of initialisation of the arrays got changed
09:25:48  <Tron_> when the name array is initialised after the engine array all was well
09:26:08  <Tron_> but i haven't checked this
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09:52:00  <Tron_> peter1138?
09:52:28  <Tron_> _engine_custom_names, _engine_name_strings
09:52:40  <peter1138> indeed
09:52:44  <peter1138> unnecessary
09:52:48  <Tron_> probably
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09:58:45  <Tron_> ok, this is /slightly/ convoluted
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10:06:54  <Darkvater> morning
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10:08:35  <Darkvater>
10:08:38  <Darkvater> lol
10:08:56  <Tron_> morning
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10:20:29  * peter1138 difforizes
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10:23:31  <peter1138> hmm
10:23:58  <peter1138> if we ditch _engine_custom_names, then not loading a grf will have another reason to fail...
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10:41:22  <ajmiles> could someone help me out with how something in openttd works? The time to deliver a cargo is measured in days, but when does the time start, is it when the industry gives the cargo to the station or when the vehicle picks it up from the station?
10:42:48  <ajmiles> just noticed the cargo payment graph says "Days in Transit", so i'm assuming it is from when the vehicle picks it up?
10:43:07  <Brianetta> From pickup
10:43:20  <Brianetta> and all distances are manhattan distances, ie, delta y + delta x
10:43:29  <Brianetta> regardless of route taken
10:45:00  <Brianetta> I should say, |delta y| + |delta x|
10:45:05  <ajmiles> ah ok, so road vehicles are the only vehicles that actually drive the manhattan way, as boats/trains/planes can all do as the crow flies
10:45:17  <Brianetta> well, they have four more directions
10:45:27  <ajmiles> yeah, that's what i meant
10:45:44  <Brianetta> but yes, technically a diagonal track gives you a sqrt(2) based advantage
10:46:33  <ajmiles> i'm doing my own version of ttd, is there any logical reason why planes/ships (not trains) can't move in any direction they like?
10:46:55  <Darkvater> is there a copyright expert around?
10:46:58  <Brianetta> in that you save 2 - sqrt(2) times the manhattan distance
10:47:11  <Brianetta> Darkvater: In a way, yes
10:47:21  <Brianetta> although I'm not a lawyer and can't give you legal advice
10:47:22  <Darkvater> << I wonder if we can bundle this with openttd
10:47:38  <Brianetta> I can only give you a no or a maybe
10:47:40  <Darkvater> the license is in the exeuctable which you can open with winrar
10:47:42  <Brianetta> let's see which (:
10:48:29  <Brianetta> that site's slow
10:48:43  <Brianetta> unicows.exe - is that it?
10:48:53  <Darkvater> I know you can bundle it with a commercial application since it's redistributable but how that goes with GPL I donnu
10:48:56  <Darkvater> yes
10:49:40  <Brianetta> unicows.exe is not RAR archive
10:50:04  <Darkvater> I could open it with winrar
10:50:10  <Darkvater> rightclick > open with winrar
10:50:16  <Brianetta> I use Linux
10:50:21  <Brianetta> I have command-line rar tools
10:50:26  <Darkvater> that won't work :)
10:50:27  <Darkvater> wait
10:50:34  <Brianetta> Tell me the compression algo
10:52:02  <Brianetta> ah, i's a cabinet
10:52:38  <Darkvater>
10:56:49  <mikl> well, it should be legal if you do not exactly bundle it, but make the installer download it from M$'s site (if it's needed)
10:57:38  <Brianetta> You are not able to bundle this software
10:58:37  <Darkvater> I see; but downloading it by the installer would be ok?
10:58:49  <Brianetta> Section 18 details the instances where you can:
10:58:49  <Brianetta> The initial user of the Product may make a one-time
10:58:49  <Brianetta> permanent transfer of this EULA and Product to another end user.
10:59:08  <Brianetta> To be safe, it would have to be "manual"
10:59:19  <Brianetta> that is, "Click here to downlaod Microsoft blah...."
10:59:33  <mikl> Brianetta: yeah, that makes sense
10:59:35  <Darkvater> hmm
10:59:40  <peter1138> ajmiles: the tile resolution is 16 x 16. to move in non-45 degree directions you'd need to increase that a lot
10:59:46  <Darkvater> that wouldn't work with the zip file unfortunately
10:59:53  <mikl> prolly have to make them eat the EULA as well
10:59:58  <Darkvater> but thanks, I'll fiddle with the installer
10:59:59  <Brianetta> Definitely.
11:00:06  <ajmiles> peter1138, the world is 3D, so that shouldn't matter
11:00:15  <Darkvater> mikl: well if it's just the link to the MS site, reading the EULA is not our problem
11:00:23  <Brianetta> no
11:00:30  <Brianetta> Once they run the installer, they'll see it
11:00:33  <mikl> Darkvater: yes, I meant for the installer :)
11:00:47  <Brianetta> I've read it all (except the Canadian French section)
11:01:02  <peter1138> ajmiles: resolution does matter
11:01:16  <Darkvater> Brianetta: thanks a lot :)
11:01:27  <Brianetta> Its all right
11:01:35  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: here my guys told me that unicows is fully redistributable
11:01:37  <peter1138> if it's not enough you'll end up somewhere else, heh
11:01:44  <Darkvater> this prolly means we can't distribute dbghelp.dll either
11:01:46  * Darkvater hides
11:01:47  <Brianetta> Copyright is something I deal with in my job, along with all the other IT related laws
11:01:51  <ajmiles> peter1138, my version of ttd is 3D, i don't see how the resolution of the tiles has anything to do with where an object can be in 3D space
11:02:05  <KUDr_wrk> we had it in our older installers too (when we supported Win9x)
11:02:07  <peter1138> it has everything to do with it
11:02:54  <Darkvater> Brianetta: what if it was bundled and you have to agree to both the GPL and the MSLU license?
11:03:15  <ajmiles> peter1138, the plane would be a 3D model, with actual height above the ground and it's position stored in a 3D vector
11:03:42  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Is theis MS thing required for full functionality?
11:03:49  <Darkvater> on win9x
11:04:05  <Darkvater> 95/98/ME
11:04:14  <Darkvater> otherwise the binary won't even run
11:04:16  <peter1138> ok, in your version it doesn't matter, heh
11:04:25  <peter1138> you probably use floats everywhere too
11:04:41  <peter1138> good luck if you ever have network multiplayer :D
11:04:47  <ajmiles> sssh :p
11:04:51  <Darkvater> you have 3D TTD?
11:05:20  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Can't be bundled with the GPL
11:05:20  <ajmiles> it's coming along
11:05:28  <Darkvater> Brianetta: kk
11:05:40  <Brianetta> GPL: "For an executable work, complete source
11:05:41  <Brianetta> code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any
11:05:41  <Brianetta> associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to
11:05:41  <Brianetta> control compilation and installation of the executable."
11:05:48  <Darkvater> ajmiles: so got some pics?
11:06:39  <Darkvater> lol vmware-d windows totally screws up limited-time software. It only works for 30 days, but I have had it installed for over 90 days now and I'm still on the first day of usage ;p
11:06:40  <Brianetta> It make sa specific exception for "anything that is normally distributed ... with the major components ... of the
11:06:41  <ajmiles> few videos on google video, no pictures that really show it off
11:06:43  <Brianetta> operating system on which the executable runs
11:07:00  <ajmiles> and
11:07:02  <Darkvater> I see
11:07:40  <ajmiles> implemented cargo delivery and payment to an extent yesterday, so it's a bit out of date now
11:08:02  <peter1138> i like the high poly models
11:08:03  <Brianetta> The final nail in the coffin is this:
11:08:03  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
11:08:06  <Brianetta> If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering
11:08:06  <Brianetta> access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent
11:08:06  <Brianetta> access to copy the source code from the same place counts as
11:08:06  <Brianetta> distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not
11:08:06  <Brianetta> compelled to copy the source along with the object code.
11:08:23  <ajmiles> the models make TT3D, GeForce 8800s required all round
11:08:37  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:08:43  <Darkvater> ajmiles: haha nice. but they do jump around on corners ;p
11:08:50  <ajmiles> minor technicality
11:09:18  <ajmiles> the second video is a few months (but only a few weeks work) more recent
11:09:18  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Basically, you're just goinbg to have to state that it's a requirement that they have this lib installed on that platform.
11:09:22  <Darkvater> Brianetta: so anything bundled must have source access
11:09:31  <Brianetta> That's the basic gist, yes.
11:09:49  <Darkvater> I love the coal mine ^^
11:10:01  <ajmiles> my issue for now is finding a sane data structure for storing what cargo is stored at each station
11:10:02  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
11:10:13  <peter1138> cargo packets :D
11:10:16  <ajmiles> given that you need to know what cargo type it is, how much there is of it, and where it came from
11:10:25  <ajmiles> heh, i already have a CargoPacket class
11:10:52  <ajmiles> stores the type of cargo, how much, date it was picked up and what industry produced it
11:11:19  <ajmiles> but the station doesn't need to know anything about when it was produced
11:11:32  <peter1138> the cargo does though
11:11:37  <Darkvater> ajmiles: and you need GF8800 for it?
11:12:04  <ajmiles> Darkvater, no, that was me joking about the high poly models, frame rate isn't going to be a problem for a long while
11:12:20  <Darkvater> got me really scared there
11:12:25  <ajmiles> runs at 500+fps for now on my 6800GT
11:12:59  <ajmiles> doing that ensures i don't forget to make every time-based rather than frame based
11:13:04  <ajmiles> *everything
11:13:24  <ajmiles> for now i have 1 real world second == 1 game world day, how far off am I?
11:13:42  <Darkvater> looks interesting... I wonder how it'll scale to 256x256 or bigger maps
11:13:48  <Darkvater> 2 seconds = 1 day in TTD
11:14:16  <ajmiles> the terrain works up to 1024x1024 atm, and has some culling of objects you can see and areas of terrain you can't see
11:14:25  <ajmiles> no need for the sides to be a power of 2
11:14:43  <ajmiles> *culling of objects you can't see
11:15:14  <ajmiles> ported the terrain code to the Xbox 360 as well, but i won't be working on a 360 version as the lack of mouse makes it hard to devise a control scheme
11:15:23  <Darkvater> hehe
11:15:39  <Darkvater> so did you start clean or took existing code and only rewrite input and drawing?
11:15:46  <ajmiles> started clean
11:15:55  <Darkvater> whohoo..rejoice, for now you can buy Vista!
11:16:16  <ajmiles> had it since november, got the RTM for being on the beta team
11:16:25  <ajmiles> works on vista too :)
11:16:32  <Darkvater> ajmiles: looks promising if you keep it up :)
11:17:02  <ajmiles> my biggest hurdle at the moment is how towns get procedurally generated, i just have no idea where to start
11:17:44  <Darkvater> well, how ottd does it: put down a town somewhere and call the town-growth algorithm as often as you want
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11:18:32  <ajmiles> indeed, but it's that town-growth algorithm that i need to write (in C#). i don't really know C/C++ so have difficult understanding any of the openttd source
11:18:33  <Darkvater> town growth: build road, walk from city centre along your roads find a free spot and build a house there. all with a certain probability of course of it builds road/house or upgrades house etc
11:19:28  <ajmiles> is there not a danger it could fill all free spaces with houses and leave no room to sprout off another stretch of road?
11:20:12  <Darkvater> it only builds to the side of the road, so the ends stay clear
11:20:24  <Darkvater> and towns build way too many roads anyways :s
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11:20:43  <ajmiles> so sometimes the road could (with some low probablity) get really long before it adds a junction
11:21:41  <Darkvater> possibly
11:21:51  <Darkvater> but I'll have to look in the code to see exactly
11:22:04  <ajmiles> and then presumably stations servicing the town just increase the rate at which you call the growrth algorithm
11:22:30  <Darkvater> yes, there's a countdown which is adjusted
11:22:33  <Maedhros> there's a bug in the road building code somewhere -
11:22:45  <Maedhros> but i have absolutely no idea where, or how that happened
11:23:16  <ajmiles> heh, i can't wait for the day where my most critical bug is an orphaned piece of road
11:23:28  <Darkvater> Maedhros: he newhouses branch?
11:23:54  <Maedhros> that was trunk, but it was a while ago
11:24:02  <Darkvater> Maedhros: you know the openttd-credo: as long as it's unreproducable in trunk it's not a bug
11:24:16  <Maedhros> yup, i know :)
11:24:16  <ajmiles> heh
11:24:20  <Darkvater> I wonder what the town did there
11:24:34  <Darkvater> looks like it was going for a bridge
11:25:41  <Maedhros> the houses are a mystery too, as they shouldn't have been built without a road next to them
11:29:36  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:29:41  <Darkvater> muhhaha
11:30:46  <qkr> I added new variable to GoodsEntry structure in station.h, do I need to do something to add it to savegame files?
11:31:07  <Darkvater> peter1138: << do we want this?
11:31:17  <Darkvater> qkr: if you want that value to be saved; yes
11:31:59  <qkr> can I do it so it doesn't break savegame compability, so that for example I can still load older savegames?
11:32:27  <Darkvater> increase savegame version and save it as a _COND() with savegame from current to max
11:32:27  <Brianetta> Does that aeroplane have a rotor?
11:32:31  <Darkvater> :)
11:32:45  <Darkvater> I was testing how ttdp handles missing grf files
11:32:54  <Ailure> .o
11:32:58  <Darkvater> seemingly it does nothing and relies on the fact that the binary won't crash
11:33:16  <peter1138> Darkvater: want what?
11:34:24  <Darkvater> I'm still on about what to do with incompatible grf files
11:34:25  <peter1138> Darkvater: non-resizable vehicle windows?
11:34:40  <peter1138> ohh
11:35:19  <Darkvater> do you know of any planes in the av8 set that overwrite non-planes?
11:35:45  <peter1138> no, it's usually the other way around
11:35:58  <peter1138> i don't which do, though
11:36:03  <Darkvater> damn
11:36:25  * Darkvater tests openttd
11:38:08  <Ailure> hmm
11:38:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8414 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
11:38:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use own AutoPtrT instead of std::auto_ptr.
11:38:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -Simplifies assignment from raw pointers
11:38:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -Should be harder to crash the program by incorrect assignment into it.
11:38:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -Should help with MorphOS compilation errors
11:38:12  <Ailure> of the newGRF stuff
11:38:31  <Ailure> it's pretty much newIndustries and newCargo that isn't implented?
11:38:41  <Ailure> avoiding minor bugs of course D:
11:38:43  <Ailure> eh
11:38:45  <Ailure> excluding I mean
11:39:13  <Ailure>
11:39:14  <Ailure> ah
11:39:19  <Ailure> yeah that's pretty much it
11:39:44  <Darkvater> thos are the most obvious shortcomings yes
11:39:48  <peter1138> trams
11:39:52  <peter1138> missing features
11:40:00  <peter1138> canals, heh
11:40:32  <Darkvater> canals should be easy
11:40:38  <Darkvater> although I have no idea what I'm talking about ;p
11:41:10  <peter1138> yeah
11:41:13  <peter1138> probably
11:41:15  <peter1138> i dunno ;p
11:41:16  <Ailure> eh
11:41:31  <Ailure> well I can't see diffrent canals being hard as well
11:41:38  <Ailure> especially if the biggest diffrence between them is graphics
11:41:54  <Ailure> I didn't know there was a such thing though
11:42:13  <Ailure> but how many uses canals? They're nice to have but heh
11:42:43  <Ailure> hmm
11:43:10  <Ailure> and trams as ttdpatch uses them seem like they're like other road vehicles but have a specialtype of road
11:43:20  <Ailure> I never used them to be hoenst
11:43:34  <Ailure> It's been years since I tried TTDpatch
11:43:48  <peter1138> i did it again...
11:44:08  <Darkvater> what?
11:44:09  <Ailure> Did what?
11:45:48  <peter1138> ^A-c
11:45:51  <peter1138> cd ttd
11:45:57  <peter1138> telnet some-router...
11:48:15  <Ailure> hmm
11:50:10  <Darkvater> we need some ttd-clinic for peter1138 :)
11:51:54  <Ailure> haha
11:51:58  <Ailure> well
11:52:11  <Ailure> You kno that you're a TTD freak
11:52:14  <Ailure> when you always have a game up
11:52:15  <Ailure> ...I do
11:52:21  <Ailure> I pause it whenever i'm not working on it
11:52:25  <Ailure> but it's still up all teh time
11:52:42  <Ailure> expect for whenever I restart it for the oddball change
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11:54:26  <Ailure> hmm
11:54:40  <Ailure>
11:55:04  <Ailure> I love how I have Tropif refursihment loaded when the server is on temperate
11:55:26  <Ailure> considering to buy a server for various purposes
11:55:34  <Ailure> so I don't have to use my personal computer as one
11:55:44  <Ailure> maybe I put a dedicated server on it
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11:55:51  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
11:56:51  <Ailure> Hello Bjarni
11:56:57  <Bjarni> hi Ailure
11:57:32  <Bjarni> anything interesting happening?
11:57:58  <Ailure> not really
11:58:04  <Ailure> Me just being slightly amused at the server list
11:58:11  <Ailure> someone is still hosting a 0.3.5 server
11:58:15  <Ailure> eh
11:58:17  <Ailure> 0.4.5
11:58:22  <Ailure> but I seen a 0.3 for a few months ago
11:58:59  <Ailure> It's like some people who owns a dedicated openTTD server
11:59:04  <Ailure> forgets about taking it down after awhile
11:59:25  <Ailure>
11:59:35  <Ailure> They would be running with no companies at all
11:59:50  <Ailure> which would just be a waste of CPU time
12:00:26  <Bjarni> I once saw a server. It got a note saying that the owner of it forgot about it and found the computer running in the attic or basement or something after 3 years. People had posted on it and stuff and it worked just fine, so he decided to leave it on, but without a moderator
12:00:40  <Bjarni> 3 years uptime :)
12:00:43  <Bjarni> at least
12:00:58  <Ailure> haha
12:01:00  <Ailure> I'm not surprised
12:01:03  <Ailure> but still
12:01:07  <Ailure> I try to keep track of my stuff
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12:04:40  <Ailure> anyway
12:04:42  <Ailure> going to a lecture now
12:04:44  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
12:04:46  <Ailure> probably will be rather short
12:04:48  <Bjarni> good luck
12:04:56  <Ailure> hehe eh I won't be gone for too long
12:05:10  <Ailure> I use VNC to remote admin my desktop computer
12:05:42  <Ailure> It works quite well working through it, as long you're not working with something that moves fast graphically
12:05:47  <Ailure> anyway brb
12:06:14  <peter1138> like ottd...
12:06:55  * Bjarni once tried OpenTTD remotely
12:07:01  <Bjarni> 5 fps or something like that
12:07:26  <Bjarni> was enough to show the game to a friend though
12:07:47  <Bjarni> we went "wow, I'm going to checkout the trunk when I get home"
12:07:49  <Bjarni> :)
12:08:08  <peter1138> never saw him again?
12:08:24  <Bjarni> what totally bought him was autorails and the ability to drag-n-drop tracks in all directions
12:08:44  <Bjarni> actually I saw him again. He had to turn up to be beaten at card games :D
12:09:25  <Bjarni> sometimes he won, but that's besides the point
12:10:10  <qkr> where do I add the new variable that I want to be saved into savegame?
12:10:29  <Bjarni> that depends
12:10:34  <Bjarni> where are the variable
12:10:50  <qkr> station h, GoodsEntry struct
12:10:53  <Maedhros> station_cmd.cpp, if you're still talking about GoodsEntry
12:11:04  <Bjarni> yeah
12:11:06  <qkr> ok
12:11:27  <ajmiles> i've another quick question about the way openttd works. if a station has two accepting industries in it's catchment (two power stations for example) and some coal arrives, does it go to one or the other, or split between both?
12:12:21  <Bjarni> well, it would matter more to brig iron ore to a steel mill, because then the issue is which one will be producing the steel
12:12:31  <ajmiles> true
12:12:35  <Bjarni> and you got a very good question
12:12:52  <Bjarni> *bring
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12:13:06  <ajmiles> and if one was a subsidy earner and one wasn't, you'd want it to go to the subsidy earning receiver
12:14:12  <qkr> I think it only goes to one industry if I understand the code correctly..
12:14:37  <Maedhros> hmm. 5 hours of lectures, with a hangover
12:14:42  * Maedhros is not looking forward to this...
12:14:49  <ajmiles> qkr, if so, any indication how it decides which one to give it to?
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12:15:21  <asdfas> grrr
12:15:31  <asdfas> [13:15] <Ailure> playing openTTD over a rmeote admin tool
12:15:32  <asdfas> [13:15] <Ailure> works better rthan playing a 3D game over it
12:15:32  <asdfas> [13:15] <Ailure> I tried The sims once
12:15:32  <asdfas> [13:15] <Ailure> The sims 2 rather
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12:16:28  <qkr> ajmiles: looks like it chooses the closest industry to the station and gives cargo to that one
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12:17:30  <ajmiles> mmm i think i might be changing that in tt3d, it's not entirely logical/obvious that's the way it works. thanks for that
12:17:36  <Bjarni> I once played OpenTTD remotely. I set a very small screen size and I was not actually playing, I was trying to find a network desync (possibly an endian issue)
12:17:51  <asdfas> heh
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12:17:56  <asdfas> but if I wanted to play openTTD remotyl
12:17:58  *** asdfas is now known as Ailure
12:17:59  <SpComb> I've tried to play BF2 over vnc on multiple occasions
12:18:03  <Bjarni> so I just more or less opened the game remotely, joined my local server and did  stuff locally
12:18:22  <SpComb> it was otherwise fine, the map loaded and everything, but the mouse didn't work in-game
12:18:32  <Bjarni> lol
12:18:35  <Ailure> I just host a multiplayer game at home
12:18:44  <Ailure> and use the openTTD client to connect to it and play :)
12:18:51  <Ailure> with the server being password protected of course
12:19:36  * SpComb still needs to write that OpenTTD network lib with python
12:19:55  <Bjarni> why?
12:19:56  <Ailure> heh
12:19:59  <SpComb> for fun and profit
12:20:09  <Bjarni> profit?
12:20:11  <Ailure> dfasdfsd stupid touchpad
12:20:19  <SpComb> Bjarni: after the ??? stage
12:20:31  <SpComb> step?
12:20:33  <Ailure> I was engaging a chat session with someone in this channel due to it's slipping
12:20:50  <SpComb> get a thinkpad and stop suffering already
12:21:09  <Ailure> eh
12:21:14  <Ailure> I'm having a seperate mouse
12:21:15  <SpComb> TrackPoint
12:21:21  <Ailure> I just forgot to turn it off
12:21:37  <Ailure> It's off now :)
12:23:36  <SpComb> but something that could connect to an OpenTTD game would be fun, although I don't have any particlar use in mind for it
12:24:07  <SpComb> but e.g. connect as a spectator, synch chat, info, automatically build signs everyone anyone tries to build, fun stuff like that!
12:36:42  <Ailure> well it needs to fool that it's in synch
12:36:45  <Ailure> so the server dosen't throw it out
12:37:36  <Ailure> and to be honest I only have a vague idea how the network implentation in openTTD works
12:42:41  <SpComb> and I've only had a vauge look at it
12:42:59  <SpComb> something with the RNG and advancing frames
12:43:56  <Ailure> I know one thing
12:43:59  <Ailure> it's very desync safe
12:44:18  <Ailure> it notice almost right away if a desync happens and throws the player out
12:44:22  <Ailure> the orginal implentation didn't
12:44:28  <Ailure> and this led to a game that only led up to a crash
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13:00:31  * Brianetta knows how the network protocol works
13:00:41  <peter1138> pigeons
13:00:44  <Brianetta> indeed
13:01:20  <Brianetta> They land and say (in pigeon), "He's building track that way" and then points.  Then he looks at what you're doind, flies back, and tells the other guy what you're doing.
13:01:45  <Brianetta> If the pigeon gets confused, that's a desync
13:01:58  <Brianetta> If the pigeon gets eaten by a falcon, that's a connection lost
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13:12:15  <ajmiles> and lag?
13:13:55  <Brianetta> lag can lead to a disconnect
13:14:12  <Brianetta> if the pigeon arrives late, the server has probably already given up on that client
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13:21:03  * Ailure is amused at the pigeon metaphor
13:21:55  <Ailure> I use alot of metaphors in my head when thinking about technical stuff :)
13:22:02  <Tron_> hm, i don't like the new autoptr
13:22:10  <Ailure> autoptr?
13:22:41  <Ailure>
13:22:41  <Ailure> ugh
13:22:49  <Ailure> This reminds me about the foreign students at a course here
13:23:00  <Ailure> we had a course forum where people are suppsed to post their work at and share with others
13:23:22  <Ailure> all of the foreign students don't know what netetiquette is
13:23:39  <Ailure> and English is literally shorthand english
13:23:43  <Ailure> for them
13:24:09  <Ailure> The courses are offered at both English and Swedish
13:24:19  <Ailure> but things that are shared between the groups have to be in English
13:24:29  <Ailure> funny how people in the English group seems to be worse at it than the Swedish one
13:25:45  <Ailure> hm,m
13:25:52  <hylje> :o
13:25:52  <Ailure> I should give myself a personal challange in next time
13:25:58  <Ailure> starting with no industries
13:26:05  <Ailure> and disallowing myself from having double tracks everywhere
13:26:31  <Ailure> (aka it's fine to have advanced stations and such, but most of the route shouldn't be on a doubletrack)
13:26:56  <hylje> :o
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13:27:38  <Ailure> now if passengers had destinations as well
13:28:00  <Ailure> "lol I just jump on this vehicle and jump off at the next stop"
13:28:49  <Ailure> the current system makes somewhat sense for cargor
13:29:07  <Brianetta> not really
13:29:16  <Ailure> hmm
13:29:24  <Ailure> eh nevermind that
13:29:24  <Brianetta> sense would be being asked to take some cargo to some specific place
13:29:39  <Brianetta> like
13:29:50  <Ailure> hmm
13:29:54  <Brianetta> "Bring me my coal.  It's at the mine where I bought it."
13:30:09  <Ailure> well for gameplays sake I prefer if destinations were only for passengers and mail
13:30:20  <Brianetta> That makes it easier
13:30:28  <Ailure> and industries acted like the UKRS ones so you can't pull off a openTTD-coop
13:30:37  <Brianetta> yes
13:30:38  <Ailure> where there's only one secondary industry per type used
13:30:44  <Brianetta> I think it should be an option
13:30:52  <Ailure> yeah
13:30:56  <Ailure> that makes most sense
13:31:02  <Ailure> as players want to make it work diffrently
13:31:10  <Brianetta> destinations: 0, 1, 2, 3 = none, passengers, cargo, both
13:31:13  <Brianetta> one bit for each option
13:31:15  <Ailure> that makes sense
13:31:20  <Ailure> heh
13:31:33  <Ailure> hmm
13:31:36  <Ailure> hmm
13:31:46  <Ailure> but should there be "passengers and mail" or just passengers?
13:31:57  <Brianetta> passengers could be passengers, mail and valuables
13:32:04  <Ailure> yeah
13:32:09  <Brianetta> it's unliekly banks would want stuff shuttling at random
13:32:10  <Ailure> I would agree with that
13:32:39  <Ailure> and I really like the UKRS industry way of handling cargo at industries
13:32:46  <Ailure> unfortunatly, there's no newIndustries support yet
13:32:50  <Brianetta> It's good, yes
13:32:51  <Ailure> and I don't want to install TTDpatch
13:33:05  <Brianetta> TTDpatch would be inconvenient for me, a Linux user
13:33:13  <Brianetta> I'd need to install WINE just to get it off the ground
13:33:17  <Ailure> heh
13:33:22  <Ailure> It's more convienant
13:33:44  <Ailure> but I probably would wind up missing openTTD spefic features if I tried TTDpatch
13:33:57  <Brianetta> big maps and multiplayer
13:33:59  <Ailure> yeah
13:34:02  * Brianetta nods
13:34:04  <Ailure> heck
13:34:15  <Ailure> I prefer sticking with the default stuff as long I have big maps
13:34:25  <hylje> gimmickry
13:34:37  <Brianetta> hylje (:
13:35:07  <Ailure> Maybe I'm biased
13:35:14  <Ailure> but longterm I think openTTD would survive
13:35:34  <Brianetta> Both will survive
13:35:41  <Ailure> well hmm
13:35:49  <Brianetta> They may well compete
13:36:00  <Ailure> They seem to be rather complimentary actually
13:36:04  <Brianetta> but Patch has the legal high ground, and people will find comfort in that
13:36:05  <Ailure> since it's diffrent kind of players on both
13:36:17  <Ailure> well heh
13:36:27  <Ailure> I come from the ROM hacking community
13:36:37  <Ailure> where we distrpute patches like that
13:36:39  <Ailure> alot
13:36:48  <hylje> ottd has the possibility to detach from original TTD stuff in time.. so there goes the legal woes?
13:36:57  <Brianetta> Well, you'll know that patching a new chip over another is more legal than reverse engineering the first chip and replacing it.
13:37:04  <Ailure> OTTD is legally unproven area
13:37:10  <Ailure> I wonder, who did orginally start OTTD?
13:37:13  <Ailure> and what country did he live in?
13:37:18  <Ailure> I thnk it was Sweden
13:37:19  <hylje> clean room reverse engineering is legal
13:37:44  <Ailure> reverse engineering laws depends on diffrent countries
13:37:56  <Brianetta> hylje: OpenTTD was hardly clean-room
13:38:02  <Ailure> America have some of the harsher laws when it comes to it, but it's still legal in a few cases
13:38:03  <hylje> yeh
13:38:10  <Ailure> openTTD was disassembled
13:38:13  <Ailure> then converted to C
13:38:19  <hylje> Ailure: in the case of IBM PCs and Wine.. yes
13:38:32  <Ailure> yeah
13:38:37  <Brianetta> Ailure: Then GPL'd - which is the legally contentious bit.
13:38:40  <Ailure> such as some emulator case in the 80's
13:38:46  <Ailure> they were reverse enginering in a legal way
13:38:57  <Brianetta> Patchman GPLs his patch, but not the game
13:39:15  <Ailure> isn't it unclear who owns the actual TTD copyright?
13:39:17  <Brianetta> OpenTTD is a derrivative work, and that is what makes it questionable.
13:39:24  <Tron_> peter1138?
13:39:26  <Ailure> what happened to microprose
13:39:27  <Brianetta> Ailure: It's definitely not the OpenTTD dev team.
13:39:30  <Ailure> ah
13:39:34  <Ailure> hasbro closed it down
13:39:41  <Brianetta> Sol dto Atari
13:39:57  <Brianetta> but we don't know if Atari got that game with the other assets
13:40:11  <Brianetta> and Atari don't see it as worth their while checking this up
13:40:31  <Ailure> I suspect that's the case
13:40:40  <Brianetta> It probably is.
13:40:41  <Ailure> especially with the long awaited TT sequel that jus tturned into a fiasco
13:40:58  <SpComb> LoMo wasn't a fiasco, just a dissapointment
13:40:59  <Ailure> becuse the hardcore fans already had their TTDpatch when it was released
13:41:06  <Ailure> well I hadn't bothered to get it
13:41:06  <Brianetta> If somebody boxes OpenTTD and sells it on thehigh street (allowed by the GPL) then I'm sure we'll find out whether Atari owns it very quickly.
13:41:26  <SpComb> we've got the box art already, complete with chris's signature ^
13:41:28  <Ailure> I was considering it, but it didn't seem to be much of a improvment when I compared to how I play openTTD
13:41:30  <SpComb> +^
13:41:43  <SpComb>
13:41:51  <Ailure> Briaetta
13:41:53  <peter1138> Tron_?
13:41:54  <Brianetta> What do my two favourite games have in common?
13:41:55  <Ailure> it depends on how they sell it
13:41:58  <Brianetta> Chris Sawyer.
13:42:07  * Brianetta loves Elite, too
13:42:09  <Ailure> if it's just called openTTD
13:42:24  <Ailure> and uses "free" graphics on it's screenshots
13:42:28  <Ailure> then they might not even notice it
13:42:32  <Brianetta> Might
13:42:40  <Brianetta> Thing is, they also might have bookmarked
13:42:48  <Brianetta> It's a matter of public record
13:43:29  <Ailure> heh
13:43:45  <Ailure> well unless they're releasing a transport game
13:43:48  <Ailure> I wouldn't be worried for now
13:44:02  <Brianetta> I'm not worried
13:44:03  <Ailure> then I seen companies throwing a fit over the most minor reasons
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13:44:17  <Brianetta> but this is the reason why every game feature I've written has been implemented through a wrapper script
13:44:38  <Brianetta> I'm not in a position to be involved at all in legal battles
13:44:56  <Brianetta> Not a contributor, not culpable at all.
13:45:05  <Ailure> I don't think my country have any clear laws at all when it comes to reverse engineering
13:45:08  <Ailure> hell we have pirate bay
13:45:17  <hylje> yarrr
13:45:18  <ajmiles> not if they go to sealand :)
13:45:23  <Brianetta> Once the license has been legally proven, I'll happily dive in and submit code.
13:45:25  <Ailure> well
13:45:34  <Ailure> Politicans don't dare to put additional piracy laws
13:45:39  <Ailure> as they know it will just gain negative press
13:45:39  <Brianetta> Sealand isn't a country, it's a registered shipwreck.
13:45:54  <SpComb> it's a naval platform, not a shipwreck
13:45:56  <Ailure> while the pirate party didnt' get into parliment
13:46:01  <Brianetta> SpComb: It's a shipwreck.
13:46:01  <Ailure> they seem to have affected the bigger parties
13:46:08  <Ailure> and some of the bigger parties turned pro-piracy
13:46:13  <SpComb> and nobodys cared enough about it to do something
13:46:19  <Ailure> and some aren't pro-piracy
13:46:25  <Ailure> but thinks tha tpiracy hunting is a waste of tax-money
13:46:28  <Brianetta> It was designed to be wrecked for the purpose of fast installation of a platform, yes, but it's stilla shipwreck.
13:46:46  * SpComb is highly sceptical of piratebay being able to establish themselves there
13:46:55  <Ailure> eh
13:46:59  <Ailure> I think it's more of a PR stunt
13:46:59  <SpComb> it has an interesting history though
13:47:08  <SpComb> from who?
13:47:21  <Ailure> but it would be neat if they actually managed to get enough money to estabelish themself there
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13:47:38  <Ailure> but I think it's a bad choice of location on the other hand
13:47:42  <SpComb> and did anyone actually notice my link? Some random person edited e.g. a openttd logo and some other stuff onto the origional TTD boxart
13:47:47  <Ailure> for being neutral waters
13:47:49  <SpComb> see my tt-forums link from above for more info...
13:48:23  <Ailure> eh
13:48:30  <Ailure> I would say that's bit borderline on parodi
13:48:31  <Ailure> :p
13:48:39  <Ailure> I'm not a legal expert though
13:48:50  <SpComb> "Also, were hereby officially telling you all that we have to go for plan B - buying our own island and trying to claim it as our own nation. The Sealand goverment has not been answering e-mails lately and we take that as a sign of not being willing to discuss our venture."
13:49:21  <Ailure> why not do it from a ship?
13:49:34  <Ailure> that would be kinda funny
13:49:35  <Brianetta> They should do it from orbit
13:49:40  <SpComb> more realistic than an island
13:49:42  <Ailure> and some pirate stations was done that way
13:49:45  <Ailure> actually
13:49:48  <Ailure> there were pirate stations
13:49:52  <Ailure> who broadcasted from the sea
13:49:58  <Brianetta> piracy on the high seas?  You can get hanged for that...
13:50:00  <Ailure> so goverments couldn't intervine
13:50:01  <SpComb> sealand has some background in pirate radio
13:50:38  <Brianetta> governments could intervene
13:50:47  <Brianetta> Caroline was intercepted by HM navy
13:50:52  <Ailure> heh
13:50:53  <SpComb> as much as the ??AA may want to, I doubt they are going to be able to get anyone hanged for information piracy
13:50:54  <Ailure> the CD using graphics
13:51:05  <Ailure> from the DOS TT installer
13:51:53  <Ailure> that thread reminds me
13:52:09  <Ailure> both TTO and TTD came in a big box
13:52:16  <Ailure> which is uncommon nowdays with PC games coming in DVD cases
13:52:36  <Ailure> only recent software I got that was in a box  was Adobe Photoshop elements
13:52:39  <Ailure> that came with this computer
13:52:43  <Ailure> and that's probably to fit documentation
13:52:52  <Ailure> intrestingly, the CD itself was inside a DVD case
13:56:25  <Ailure> is it just me
13:56:33  <Ailure> or are cities in locomotion boring to look at?
13:56:41  <Ailure> I don't have locomotion, but I do see screenshots of it at times
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14:39:06  <hylje>
14:39:14  <hylje> isnt that the epitome of software projects
14:40:17  <peter1138> heh
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14:59:59  <Darkvater> wt... where are the aircraft subtypes defined?
15:00:09  <Rubidium> nowhere?
15:00:10  <peter1138> magically
15:00:18  <peter1138> they're bits
15:00:49  <Darkvater> ok, the bits then
15:00:56  <Darkvater> 6?
15:01:25  <Darkvater> I can't find that
15:02:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8415 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/updater/udp.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: forgot to zero NetworkGameInfo
15:08:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8416 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: make ActiveServer more generic by naming it ServerAddress
15:08:24  <Darkvater> ah CTOL&AIR_FAST
15:09:27  <Darkvater> peter1138: in afterloadvehicles the v->cur_image is updated
15:10:06  <Darkvater> if (v->subtype == 0 || v->subtype == 2) { << do you know why it is only done for these?
15:10:20  <Darkvater> and not for ctol AND fast planes? Or ctol-only planes?
15:10:27  <Ailure> haha
15:10:29  <Ailure> funny
15:10:42  <Ailure> we're having a course about that right now
15:10:45  <Ailure> Software devolopment
15:11:18  <Darkvater> or is there some magic I'm missing? Cause planes in av8 do have subtypes 6
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15:18:39  <peter1138> Darkvater: no, i don't know why i did that
15:18:48  <peter1138> maybe that's why it crashes :P
15:20:04  <Darkvater> no
15:20:13  <peter1138> :(
15:20:13  <Darkvater> not maybe, it's definitely why it crashes
15:20:18  <peter1138> oh
15:20:20  <peter1138> hehe
15:20:44  <Darkvater> the plane doesn't get a new image, and remains using the old one, thus going outside the sprite bounds
15:20:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8417 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Add: retrieving of to-be-(re)queried game servers for the updater.
15:21:13  <Darkvater> peter1138: cause I think if that is fixed can load games with missing grf's safely
15:21:33  <Darkvater> you will get a ZILLION asserts but since they aren't active in release mode anyways, it doesn't matter
15:21:53  <Darkvater> you'll get rotored boeings and other crap, but ok ;p
15:22:30  <Darkvater> and cola-wagons as engines but the game will load
15:22:32  <Ailure> planes with rotors on
15:22:35  <Ailure> are amusing to watch
15:22:41  <Brianetta> I already love Tcl
15:22:47  <Brianetta> I am starting to love Tk too
15:22:49  <Ailure> I love switching to toyland
15:22:59  <Ailure> then buy that helicopter
15:23:03  <Ailure> then switch back to temperate climate
15:23:15  <Ailure> and enjoy the most pointless looking aircraft ever
15:23:54  <Brianetta> We should have a hybrid
15:24:03  <Brianetta> toyland below the snowline, temperate above
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15:24:15  <Brianetta> "Don't go int he valleys.... oh noes!"
15:24:18  <hylje> i totally agree
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15:25:03  <Brianetta> On a totally different tack...
15:25:15  <Brianetta> can grf coders make horsepower change depending on altitude?
15:25:22  <Brianetta> Say, a train is weaker in the snow
15:25:23  <hylje> oo
15:25:34  <hylje> it could be a universal factor
15:25:51  <hylje> because at least diesels tend to lose HP when going higher
15:26:04  <Brianetta> yes
15:26:16  <Brianetta> just wondering if NFO has that kind of hook
15:26:23  <Ailure> haha
15:26:27  <Ailure> of course
15:26:31  <Ailure> it shouldn't be called snow line then
15:26:34  <Ailure> it should be sanity line
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15:26:41  <Brianetta> Ailure: (:
15:27:02  <Brianetta> People would just terraform the whole lot upward
15:27:11  <hylje> it wouldnt need seas
15:27:16  <hylje> because the toyland would be a sea
15:27:16  <Brianetta> unless we did that terraform limiter that peter1138 and I were discussing a couple of weeks ago
15:27:26  <Ailure> hmm
15:27:31  <Ailure> how would that one work?
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15:28:34  <Brianetta>  number
15:28:39  <Brianetta> buh
15:28:42  <Ailure> restrict terraforming to x levels?
15:28:44  <Ailure> up/down?
15:28:45  <Brianetta> no
15:28:47  <Brianetta> A number
15:28:54  <Brianetta> say, 10 by default
15:29:06  <Brianetta> decremented by building up
15:29:13  <Brianetta> incremented by terraforming down
15:29:24  <Brianetta> if 0, can't go up
15:29:28  <Brianetta> if 20, can't go down
15:29:37  <Brianetta> Basically, it's your stockpile of dirt
15:29:46  <Ailure> oh
15:29:48  <Brianetta> It starts half full
15:30:07  <Brianetta> and the exact number would be a path option
15:30:07  <Ailure> watch players making huge mountains on the map now :)
15:30:13  <Brianetta> indeed
15:30:19  <Ailure> but then
15:30:22  <Ailure> that's probably more realistic
15:30:24  <Ailure> than the old behavior
15:30:30  <Brianetta> I'm all in favour
15:30:42  <Brianetta> It would stop people filling in the sea
15:30:48  <Brianetta> well, they'd have to do it bt by bit
15:30:53  <Brianetta> and only until they ran out of hills to mine
15:31:02  <glx> yeah if you dig you should put what you removed somewhere else
15:31:11  <Brianetta> glx: Exactly that
15:31:15  <hylje> dirt stockpiling :-)
15:31:21  <Ailure> the fact that terraforming in sea is more expensive
15:31:25  <Brianetta> well, just dirt piling
15:31:31  <Ailure> should avoid cases where players fill any sea existing
15:31:36  <Ailure> or at least overdo that
15:31:39  <Brianetta> should; doesn't
15:31:42  <hylje> sea could be worth 2 or 3 piles of dirt
15:32:00  <Brianetta> hylje: No, then people will dump dirt at sea
15:32:04  <Brianetta> when leveling mountains
15:32:15  <hylje> :o
15:32:19  <Ailure> and it's easy to screw up game mechancis that way as well
15:32:26  <Ailure> flat a area at sea level
15:32:29  <Ailure> then fill it with water
15:32:32  <Ailure> then lift that water
15:32:34  <Brianetta> The dirt pile could be seen in the company window
15:32:51  <hylje> a malicious player could lower the whole map by dumping all the dirt to sea :-)
15:33:04  <Ailure> it shouldnt' be too hard to implent really
15:33:07  <Brianetta> or there could be a totally out-of-scale pile of dirt next to the HQ (:
15:33:14  <Ailure> it's just pretty much a number increasing or decreasing depending on player actions
15:33:37  <Ailure> I would like trying a such patch
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16:35:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8418 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: refactor some copy-pasted code.
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17:05:02  <Darkvater> dammit, I'm too late to cancel my internet subscription
17:05:34  <Ailure> You hate us that much? D:
17:05:49  <Ailure> ;P
17:06:16  <Darkvater> should I keep paying 33 euro for 4200/660 the next year or downgrade to 1600/330 for 20 euros
17:06:41  <Someone> 33 euros for 4200/660 in holland?
17:06:47  <Darkvater> yes
17:06:50  <Someone> hmm, that sucks. lol =p
17:07:27  <Someone> Im getting Casanet next month, 20000/20000 glassfiber, 50 euros/month.
17:07:31  <Darkvater> it's a bit expensive, since I could've gotten 20000/1024 for 25 on ADSL
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17:28:40  <SpComb> Logs:
17:28:40  <FlashFF> !logs
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17:31:02  <Ailure> [18:30] <Ailure> this so ironic
17:31:02  <Ailure> [18:30] <Ailure> I get a Swedish ad... for dianetics.
17:31:02  <Ailure> [18:31] <Ailure> ...a scientologist AD on YTMND?
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17:32:38  <Ailure>
17:33:32  <Magus_X_Busy> Ailure: YOU'RE WINNER!
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17:33:36  <Magus_X_Busy> lo
17:33:38  <Magus_X_Busy> l
17:34:03  <Wolf01> ello
17:34:23  <Magus_X_Busy> Frank Klepacki? wasn't him what did the C&C Soundtrack?
17:34:41  <Ailure> yeah
17:34:50  <Ailure> he have his own site
17:34:54  <Ailure> that works as a jukebox as well :p
17:35:51  <Magus_X_Busy> please give it to me
17:35:58  <Magus_X_Busy> i want to download that soundtrack if available
17:35:59  <Ailure>
17:36:00  <Magus_X_Busy> ^^
17:36:01  <Ailure> duh
17:36:03  <Ailure> it's first on google
17:36:10  <Ailure> you can't download it though
17:36:15  <Magus_X_Busy> :~~
17:36:19  <Magus_X_Busy> i forgot the site
17:36:19  <Ailure> but I downloaded some of my favorite soudntracks over emule
17:36:22  <Ailure> as they aren't sold anyway
17:36:23  <Magus_X_Busy> that had all C&C soundtrack
17:36:29  <Ailure> yeah there were some
17:36:32  * Magus_X_Busy busy now
17:36:33  <Ailure> but it was ripped from the games
17:36:39  <Ailure> frank klepacki's site have high quality
17:36:49  <Ailure> compared from ripping the music from the game
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17:42:59  <Magus_X_Busy> but wasnt ripped
17:43:02  <Magus_X_Busy> they released
17:43:05  <Magus_X_Busy> a cd with the soundtrack
17:43:05  <Magus_X_Busy> :p
17:43:13  <Ailure> they did
17:43:23  <Ailure> but it's not always the soundtrack ones you find
17:43:37  <Ailure> like I found some really low quality ones
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17:43:44  <Gorre> morning.
17:43:53  <Ailure> it's easy to figure out if it's ripped from a CD or game for the first game at least
17:44:11  <Ailure> becuse the soundtrack songs have vocals in them, but they were removed in the game before release
17:44:25  <Ailure> for understandable reasons as well
17:44:32  <Ailure> (confusing users)
17:48:19  <qkr> what is the default port of openttd? need to open it in my firewall...
17:49:09  <Wolf01> openttd.cfg <-
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17:49:55  <peter1138> 3979
17:54:08  <qkr> thanks
17:58:03  <qkr> can someone try if they can see my game on openttd?
17:59:37  <qkr> please?
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18:41:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8419 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt korean.txt ukrainian.txt):
18:41:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-26 19:40:39
18:41:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changed by fukumori (1)
18:41:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changed by Nios (1)
18:41:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 fixed, 23 changed by mad (24)
18:52:00  * Magus_X tocando: naruto akeboshi - 1st ending wind.mp3 (t7DS: 128/44/3mins 40secs)
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19:02:38  <Darkvater> hmm so what shall I rename 'new engines' to in the vehicle list?
19:02:50  <Darkvater> is 'available engines' or something better?
19:03:18  <KUDr> sounds good
19:03:28  <Rubidium> I wouldn't know anything better than 'available engines'
19:03:35  <glx> yeah that's the exact meaning of the button
19:03:36  <Darkvater> 'engine designs'
19:04:09  <Darkvater> should it be one general 'available engines' or 'available trains/vehicles/ships/aircraft'?
19:04:34  <Rubidium> for 'engine designs' you still need available IMO
19:04:42  <Maedhros> available trains/road vehicles/ships/aircraft, i think
19:06:32  <KUDr> haha!:
19:06:41  <KUDr> we have morphos back
19:06:56  <Darkvater> yaay..I guess
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19:08:32  <Darkvater> Maedhros: 'available road vehicles' definitely won't fit in the button
19:09:02  <KUDr> 'available engines' with filters :)
19:09:06  * KUDr hides
19:09:08  <DaleStan> "Available vehicles"? To me, "available engines" implies train engines only.
19:09:21  <Darkvater> so unified 'available vehicles'?
19:09:29  <KUDr> maybe
19:09:31  <Darkvater> let's do that
19:09:37  <stillunknown_> KUDr: anything new map happened already?
19:10:01  <KUDr> stillunknown_: i dunno, on this side of line not yet
19:11:55  <Tron> Darkvater: i think in german it sounds rather awkward
19:12:31  <Darkvater> Tron: it'll need a good translation, yes
19:12:48  <Tron> i doubt there is one which covers all four vehicle types
19:12:53  <Darkvater> hmm
19:12:56  <Tron> "Verfügbare Fahrzeugmodelle"
19:12:59  <Tron> "Verfügbare Fahrzeuge"
19:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> sounds not really fitting for ships and planes
19:13:30  <Tron> yes
19:13:37  <Tron> that's the problem
19:13:57  <Darkvater> I'll split it to 4 then
19:14:21  <stillunknown_> Why take translations into account?
19:14:30  <Maedhros> why not?
19:14:41  <stillunknown_> You can't know them all, so you can only be biased for your own language.
19:15:28  <Maedhros> we don't have to know it all. we know that in this case it would be better for some languages to split the strings
19:15:29  <Tron> if it sucks in my language, that's enough reason
19:16:15  <KUDr> stillunknown_: i.e. for cz too
19:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown_: sure, you can't know them all, but that does not mean you have to close your eyes on purpose
19:17:24  <stillunknown_> Maybe it's just me, i can practically think in English, my native language is only useful for local communication.
19:17:47  <Darkvater> I would not ever want to use software in any other language than english
19:17:55  <Darkvater> but that doesn't mean everyone thinks like that
19:18:09  <stillunknown_> Me too, some translations can be strange.
19:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i try to have as much in german as possible
19:18:58  <stillunknown_> You'll always have a mixed system, which is reason for me not to use dutch software.
19:19:03  <Tron> hm, while looking at this problem: the strings in german are inconsistent
19:19:19  <Tron> for planes it is singular, the other three are plural
19:19:56  <hylje> wtf is up with semaphores
19:21:55  <KeeperOfTheSoul> gah, anyone know of a way to work out what revision a particular export came from?
19:22:26  <Darkvater> KeeperOfTheSoul: trial and error
19:22:36  <KeeperOfTheSoul> that's what i was afraid of
19:22:38  <Tron> KeeperOfTheSoul: look into the source files
19:22:47  <Tron> they have ID tags in the first line
19:22:54  <Ailure> [20:09] <DaleStan> "Available vehicles"? To me, "available engines" implies train engines only.
19:23:06  <stillunknown_> Darkvater: Effectively using the internet, requires English, you might as well use it exclusively, makes for good practice.
19:23:07  <Ailure> One of thoose boring bastards who don't bother with the other type of vehicles? :(
19:23:18  <Darkvater> Tron: hehe, that's also possible; grep and find highest rev
19:23:30  <Darkvater> then you just have to find out from which branch it came :)
19:24:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8420 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange (r7418): Rename the 'New <vehtype>' button of the global vehicle lists to 'Available <vehtype>' as it is a view-only list, not one from which you can purchase (rolling) stock.
19:24:34  <DaleStan> Ailure: I do use all four transport types, but "engines" implies only one of them, and it sounded like that was not the desired effect.
19:24:44  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i'm gussing the trunk, the last comment in known-bugs.txt was for 0.4.7 but a few ids are greater than that, so i'm guessing between 0.4.7 and 0.4.8
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19:26:19  <Darkvater> I try to sort them by last-modified-file look up it's ID, get that revision, copy in my export and look at the changes. Than svn blame to find out in what rev a certain line has changed
19:26:27  <Tron> Darkvater: would you rename STR_AVAILABLE_VEHICLES to STR_AVAILABLE_ROAD_VEHICLES?
19:26:38  <Darkvater> I usually have the exact revision after 5-6 tries
19:26:50  <Tron> i think it's more clear what exactly is meant
19:26:59  <Darkvater> gp
19:27:50  <KeeperOfTheSoul> I'm just trying to match up the source for the pocket pc version to which revision in openttd it came from so I can see what's been changed
19:28:09  <Darkvater> which one?
19:28:16  <KeeperOfTheSoul> latest of their site
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19:28:22  <Darkvater> ah
19:28:28  <Darkvater> that's branches/0.5.0-RC3
19:28:29  <Tuzlo> what would stop my trains from being serviced?
19:28:39  <KeeperOfTheSoul> ah, cool
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19:29:04  <Darkvater>
19:29:45  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
19:30:19  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:30:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8421 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange (r8420): rename STR_AVAILABLE_VEHICLES to STR_AVAILABLE_ROAD_VEHICLES for clarificaton (Tron)
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19:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> <stillunknown_> Darkvater: Effectively using the internet, requires English, you might as well use it exclusively, makes for good practice. <- a pretty large part of the internet is in german
19:33:39  <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause2: define pretty large
19:33:47  <Darkvater> why doesn't this make sense?
19:34:18  <Darkvater> v->subtype = (avi->subtype & AIR_CTOL ? 2 : 0); << when building an airplane this actually says if the table says I am a conventional landing/takeoff that I am a AIR_FAST?
19:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> significantly enough so you can spend most of the time there
19:35:03  <Darkvater> hmm, but no, AIR_ are bitshifts 1<<2, 1<<1, but I don't see it set anywhere
19:35:04  <Darkvater> :s
19:37:28  <Darkvater> this is :r
19:37:45  <Darkvater> and subtypes are being used all over the place
19:37:46  <Darkvater> bah
19:38:23  <Darkvater> I'll look at this later tonight and try to untangle zhe'mess
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20:07:08  <glx> [20:19:28] <Tron> for planes it is singular, the other three are plural <-- probably because translator don't know that aircraft is always singular in english
20:07:32  <Tron> likely
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20:22:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8422 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp:
20:22:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
20:22:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Regression (r8314): Reevaluate the disabled elrail setting after loading because the railtype doesn't get saved anymore
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20:25:08  <peter1138> woo
20:25:29  <peter1138> finally have a wireless card for the laptop...
20:25:38  <peter1138> although it says it needs 300MHz minimum...
20:31:25  <Tron> peter1138?
20:31:38  <peter1138> my laptop is a pentium 233...
20:31:45  <Tron> ah, nvm
20:31:54  <peter1138> so what did you want? :)
20:32:12  <Tron> found the answer
20:32:23  <peter1138> how infuriating
20:32:28  <peter1138> i'll never know ;(
20:32:46  <Tron> fiddling with ResolveStation()
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20:32:57  <peter1138> ah
20:33:06  <peter1138> oh yes, redundancy wasn't it?
20:34:43  <Tron> that too, but also thought i found something else strange, but it was just me
20:34:52  <peter1138> you're strange? :)
20:35:46  <peter1138> hmm, 1st Jan 1988, 00:14
20:35:50  <peter1138> i think this clock is wrong, too
20:36:46  <Tron> just slightly off
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20:39:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8423 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp:
20:39:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
20:39:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Do not explicitly pass the station specification and the station to ResolveStation(). They are already contained in the ResolverObject
20:41:30  <peter1138> bah, i wish the audio on this thing worked
20:41:54  <peter1138> well, the speakers
20:42:00  <peter1138> headphones work...
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20:43:43  <imaginner> hi there!
20:44:14  <Tron> RoadVehDelete()
20:44:20  <Tron> does the second line in there make any sense?
20:44:35  <Belugas> hooo... a laptop... i don't have one :(
20:44:43  <Belugas> I want one!
20:45:40  <hylje> hoo
20:45:44  <hylje> i has a laptop
20:45:55  <peter1138> Belugas: it's a slow one
20:46:05  <peter1138> but, enough for putty :D
20:47:19  <Tron> peter1138: your opinion?
20:47:30  * peter1138 looks
20:47:44  <peter1138> hehe, a reason to automatically cd ottd
20:48:02  <Belugas> peter1138, even a slow is better than a *not* one :D
20:48:17  <peter1138> Tron: hasn'
20:48:18  <peter1138> err
20:48:30  <peter1138> Tron: hasn't it just deleted it, via deleting its parent?
20:48:48  <Tron> not only that
20:48:53  <Tron> the whole vehicle gets deleted!
20:48:57  <peter1138> quite
20:49:39  <peter1138> heh, r1
20:49:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8424 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp:
20:49:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
20:49:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Do not call ClearSlot() just before calling DeleteVehicle(), which does it too
20:51:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8425 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp:
20:51:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
20:51:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Do not try to invalidate a window which just got deleted. It is pointless
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20:53:02  <peter1138> heh, good ol' forums
20:53:07  <peter1138> you can be logged out randomly
20:53:27  <peter1138> but come back to a laptop that's not been used for 6 months and it's still logged in...
20:55:55  <Tron> src/aircraft_gui.cpp:336
20:56:09  <Tron> pointless, isn't it?
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20:56:54  <peter1138> hmm?
20:57:01  <SpComb> hmm
20:57:09  <Tron> deleting those windows is pretty pointless
20:57:31  <Tron> they have the window which this function belongs to as parent
20:57:36  <Tron> so they get deleted automagically
20:57:38  <peter1138> ahh
20:57:54  <peter1138> isn't the parent thing new? or am i thinking of something else
20:58:16  <Tron> r7618
20:59:04  <peter1138> ah yes. fairly.
20:59:17  <peter1138> so pointless :)
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21:22:32  <raimar2> cool, the truck/buses are working again
21:23:06  <KeeperOfTheSoul> heh, i read that statment and thought that was so true to life ;)
21:29:07  <peter1138> were they broken?
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21:51:17  <raimar2> is it possible that a sawmill only accepts wood from two stations?
21:51:39  <raimar2> the others from different players can not deliver wood there
21:51:40  <Ailure> eh
21:51:41  <Ailure> no
21:51:48  <Ailure> a station should be able to accept as many stations
21:51:59  <Ailure> as you can fit close to a sawmill
21:52:00  <Ailure> :/
21:52:04  <raimar2> yes that was also my understanding
21:52:05  <Ailure> unless there's a limit I never heard of
21:52:20  <Ailure> but if it was a limi
21:52:24  <Ailure> it would been wellknown by now
21:52:41  <raimar2> any other reasons why the trucks don't deliver the wood there?
21:52:54  <raimar2> the orders look ok
21:53:11  <glx> stations accept wood?
21:53:18  <Ailure> if they do
21:53:24  <Ailure> then congrutaltiuons, you hit a bug
21:53:27  <Ailure> what version are you using?
21:53:29  <raimar2> all 4 accept woods
21:53:40  <Ailure> I think something like that happened in 0.4.8 or something in certain situations
21:53:41  <raimar2> but from 2 the trucks don't unload it
21:53:43  <Ailure> but I remember wrong
21:53:44  <Ailure> eh
21:53:46  <Ailure> might remember wrong
21:55:27  <raimar2> hmm maybe I caused the bug
21:58:19  <Digitalfox> raimar2: Does the orders your trucks have any "Full Load" or "Unload" ?
21:59:08  <raimar2> yes a full load
21:59:13  <raimar2> but no unload
21:59:30  <Digitalfox> Try giving them the order Unload
21:59:50  <Digitalfox> Test it and report here :)
22:00:44  <Ailure> problem is that it might lead to the cargo being unloaded at the station
22:00:49  <Ailure> and about that it's happening
22:00:56  <raimar2> exactly
22:00:57  <Ailure> but it can be a worth a try I guess
22:01:06  <raimar2> I already tried
22:01:14  <raimar2> they just store the wood there
22:01:17  <raimar2> but don't sell it
22:01:30  <Ailure> heh
22:01:36  <Ailure> just post the savegame somewhere
22:01:39  <Ailure> along with the version number
22:01:53  <Ailure> It's a known bug in a older openTTD version
22:01:57  <Ailure> but if it appears in later...
22:02:05  <glx> "somewhere" is usually
22:02:51  <Ailure> nah the ttdpatch forums are much better
22:02:52  <Ailure> ;p
22:03:01  <Ailure> but yeah
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22:07:54  <raimar2> hmmm with the clean SVN the station don't accept wood anymore
22:08:17  <raimar2> but the sawmill is in the shown catchment area
22:09:58  <glx> not all part of an industry accept stuff
22:10:31  * Sacro considers a pocket pc port
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22:11:54  <raimar2> uhh
22:16:17  <peter1138> oh, poo, the nightly won't work on my laptop, will it? :(
22:16:52  <Rubidium> why wouldn't it?
22:17:02  <peter1138> it's 98se
22:17:12  <glx> yeah it won't run
22:18:08  <Ailure> is there any reason to still run 98?
22:18:12  <Ailure> 2000 is faster in most cases
22:18:52  <glx> but you must have a win2000 licence:)
22:19:15  <Ailure> :p
22:19:24  <Ailure> Still even Win XP would be better
22:19:30  <glx> anyway XP runs on a 233 :)
22:19:30  <Ailure> just strip away all the memory hogging stuff
22:19:40  <Ailure> there's hacks out there
22:19:46  <Ailure> that makes WinXP as light as 2000
22:19:56  <Ailure> that you can apply on a legal version of it too
22:20:27  <peter1138> this is a p233 with 64m
22:20:50  <glx> 128MB is a minimum for XP
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22:21:11  <Ailure> It's possible to run it with less :) though it requires some strippin down
22:21:18  <KeeperOfTheSoul> ah, that'll run XP no trouble, you'll even have time to get a coffee between loading, well, just about anything
22:21:32  <peter1138> it's pretty slow with 98
22:21:37  <peter1138> it's got tons of shit loaded on
22:21:39  <Ailure> well
22:21:45  <Ailure> I find computers with 2000 generally faster
22:21:51  *** Neonox [] has left #openttd [bin wech....]
22:22:09  <Ailure> as Win98 have the crappiest way of managing multi-tasking and memory managment I ever esen
22:22:33  <peter1138> you've not seen much, then
22:34:06  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
22:34:34  <peter1138> cooperative multitasking is always fun
22:36:38  <KeeperOfTheSoul> ah, windows 1.0
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22:47:58  <Magus_X> lmao
22:50:05  <Digitalfox> glx: glx>	128MB is a minimum for XP - > Not really, 64MB is the minimum
22:50:27  <Digitalfox> And if you disable a lot of unused services it will be just as fast as 2000
22:51:31  <Wolf01> nah, see here ->
22:51:43  <Digitalfox> Also having updated drivers does have a big perfomance impact.. Like chipset drivers... And enabling some disk caches
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22:52:54  <Digitalfox> Wolf01: But that's after installing, because when installing 64 is a REQUIREMENT TO CONTINUE
22:54:08  *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@] has joined #openttd
22:56:07  <Wolf01> gn
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23:16:46  <peter1138> weird
23:16:56  <peter1138> laptop lets me use 1024x768
23:17:03  <peter1138> though the display is 800x600
23:17:16  <peter1138> gives me a virtual scrolling desktop
23:18:51  <Darkvater> hehe nice laptop peter1138 :)
23:20:27  <peter1138> i can tell you're envious
23:21:27  <Darkvater> well you have a laptop now and I don't ;)
23:22:12  <Magus_X> [21:17:06] <peter1138> gives me a virtual scrolling desktop
23:22:14  <Magus_X> it is linux?
23:22:18  <Magus_X> because linux allows it :p
23:22:21  <peter1138> no
23:22:32  <peter1138> it isn't X
23:22:41  <Magus_X> no? :P
23:24:02  <peter1138> win98
23:24:04  <peter1138> hee
23:24:11  <peter1138> windows update :p
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23:28:50  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i remember that, i think it may have been a driver thing with some video cards that allowed it
23:29:03  <peter1138> probably
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23:50:42  <Darkvater> hmm
23:50:51  <Darkvater> IsFrontEngine only checks bit 0 for position
23:51:11  <Darkvater> yet there is some code which does v->type == VEH_Train && v->subtype == 0
23:51:17  <Darkvater> what's that about?
23:55:11  <Sionide> teehee, scrubs reference in the latest bunny comic ( )

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