Log for #openttd on 27th January 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:41  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
00:08:44  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:08:51  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
00:11:09  <Maedhros> good night
00:11:22  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:14:13  *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
00:14:44  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:19:17  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has joined #openttd
00:20:56  *** blindwaves [] has joined #openttd
00:23:04  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
00:27:24  <Darkvater> gn
00:28:55  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:29:35  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:29:35  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
00:36:58  *** nairan [] has joined #openttd
00:42:55  *** iPandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo]
00:47:02  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
00:49:28  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:01:23  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
01:09:45  *** blindwaves [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]]
01:12:44  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:32:00  *** MUcht [] has joined #openttd
01:38:19  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:52:30  *** BJH2_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
02:11:05  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:12:43  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:28:43  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:31:26  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has joined #openttd
02:37:51  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:01:20  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
03:04:33  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
03:07:46  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
03:25:04  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
03:39:28  *** SpComb [] has joined #openttd
03:53:28  *** dp_ [] has joined #openttd
04:00:25  *** dp [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:23:45  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:30:00  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
05:45:48  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
05:52:09  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:01:07  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
06:11:00  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:15:23  *** izhirahider [] has quit [Server closed connection]
06:15:36  *** izhirahider [] has joined #openttd
06:18:58  *** blindwaves [] has joined #openttd
06:21:40  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
06:25:53  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]]
06:26:57  *** iPandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
06:33:41  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:45:41  *** ln- [] has quit [Server closed connection]
06:45:45  *** ln- [] has joined #openttd
06:46:49  *** dp_ [] has quit [Server closed connection]
06:46:50  *** dp [] has joined #openttd
06:57:33  *** SpComb [] has joined #openttd
07:02:05  *** Magus_X [t7DS@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:18:39  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:47:27  *** ThePizzaKing_ [] has joined #openttd
07:49:13  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by ThePizzaKing_))]
07:49:39  *** ThePizzaKing_ is now known as ThePizzaKing
08:02:29  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:25:16  *** qkr [] has joined #openttd
08:31:21  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Server closed connection]
08:32:13  *** tokai|ni [] has joined #openttd
08:46:17  *** Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
09:11:21  <waxman> Good Morning
09:15:10  <peter1138> hmm
09:15:22  <peter1138> why does the 0.5.0-RC4 installer say it is for ?
09:20:34  <peter1138> oh, RC4 doesn't work on '98 either?
09:20:39  <peter1138> pom te pom
09:21:55  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
09:24:11  *** Wolfensteijn [] has joined #openttd
09:24:52  * peter1138 pokes Darkvater
09:25:11  <Zaviori> In ze eye!
09:26:17  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
09:30:22  *** Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
09:42:28  *** Mizipzor [] has joined #openttd
09:47:49  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
09:48:32  *** DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
09:50:47  *** thunder1 [] has joined #openttd
09:55:51  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
09:56:29  <Wolf01> morning
09:56:36  <peter1138> hi
09:59:34  <peter1138> what's the trick for RC4 on win98 then? :(
09:59:40  * peter1138 's missing out
10:00:57  *** green-devil [] has joined #openttd
10:02:53  <Wolf01> maybe install the rc4 and then unpack the (about) equivalent nightly over it
10:03:20  *** VanilleBert [] has joined #openttd
10:03:30  <peter1138> um
10:03:36  <peter1138> i'm trying to use rc4...
10:08:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8426 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp:
10:08:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
10:08:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Slightly simplify the code which determines whether to build a rail or a road bridge
10:08:17  <Wolf01> it crashes or what?
10:09:22  <peter1138> the old can
10:09:24  <peter1138> err
10:09:28  <Tefad> what the
10:09:40  <peter1138> the old can't find lang pack, and 'corrupt' grfs...
10:26:29  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
10:27:33  *** lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:29:00  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
10:30:04  <Wolf01> mmmh i found nothing on the forum
10:32:30  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
10:40:02  *** Tron [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
10:40:13  *** Tron [] has joined #openttd
10:48:34  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
10:48:37  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
10:50:01  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Server closed connection]
10:50:23  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
10:58:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8427 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt:
10:58:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
10:58:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: s/m?/m?5?0?4?9/
10:58:56  <peter1138> uh
10:58:59  <hylje> :o
10:59:32  <Tron> hm, interesting
10:59:45  <Tron> s/m?/m³/
11:03:03  * peter1138 pokes Darkvater some more
11:03:47  <peter1138> maybe a magic reboot will help
11:06:42  <peter1138> heh
11:06:55  <peter1138> this wireless card is a "802.11g Wireless Cardbus Adatper"
11:07:12  <peter1138> made by "Technology Corportation"
11:07:29  <hylje> :o
11:07:58  <Bjarni> that's a really well known company
11:08:04  <Bjarni> almost as known as "generic" :P
11:08:29  <peter1138> yeah, the software was put in C:\Program Files\NOBRAND\...
11:09:23  *** Belugas [] has joined #openttd
11:09:26  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
11:11:53  *** wolfy [] has joined #openttd
11:11:53  *** Wolfensteijn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:13:00  <peter1138> ah well, it works at least...
11:13:07  <hylje> this far :p
11:14:53  <peter1138> *nod*
11:19:07  *** Nigel [] has quit [Server closed connection]
11:19:20  *** Nigel [] has joined #openttd
11:22:08  *** ChrisM87 [] has joined #openttd
11:25:26  <Darkvater> morning
11:25:39  *** roboman [] has joined #openttd
11:25:48  <Darkvater> peter1138, Tron: poke
11:25:58  <peter1138> hello
11:25:59  <Tron> counter-poke!
11:26:06  <peter1138> how do i get rc4 working on '98?
11:26:36  <Darkvater> download RC3, extract dbghelp.dll from it and overwrite RC4's dbghelp.dll
11:26:51  <peter1138> did that
11:27:01  <Darkvater> do you have unicows/
11:27:38  <peter1138> um
11:27:43  <Darkvater> I take that as a no
11:28:08  <peter1138> no idea
11:28:40  <Wolf01> unicows.dll, wasn't that for the resolution change, was it?
11:28:51  <Darkvater> peter1138: put unicows.dll in the openttd dir
11:28:51  <peter1138> i'm used to libraries not being available causing the program not to run at all
11:29:13  <Darkvater>
11:30:01  <peter1138> yeah, that works
11:30:03  <Wolf01> that dll seem like an aspirin for win98, is required for about all the new software.. now i understand why i have no problems with my win98 :D
11:30:27  <peter1138> i'd expect something like 'can't find unicows.dll'
11:30:51  <Tron> "MEIN LEBEN!"
11:30:51  <stillunknown> maybe it's just assuming unicode support?
11:30:53  *** imaginner [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong]
11:32:21  <Darkvater> peter1138: unicows is tricky; it's only loaded when windows can't find the given wide-function in its own dll's
11:32:32  <Darkvater> I'll update the installer though to say something about this
11:32:39  *** roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32:42  <peter1138> hmm
11:32:51  <peter1138> i don't understand
11:32:52  *** Magus_X [] has joined #openttd
11:33:10  <peter1138> if it can't find the functions, how does it run without the dll?
11:33:45  <Darkvater> no idea, I think it just uses some stub
11:33:50  <Darkvater> but clearly it doesn't run :)
11:33:54  <peter1138> it does
11:34:15  <Darkvater> it doesn't cause it says 'missing' etc
11:34:24  <peter1138> yes
11:34:35  <peter1138> not "missing function foo"
11:36:05  <Darkvater> The second part is a library (LIB) file--Unicows.lib--that is compiled with this same application. This LIB contains the MSLU loader, which determines whether to load the DLL and call it; alternatively, it can call the original operating-system version of the API. (The former scenario would occur on Windows 95/98/Me; the latter would occur on Windows NT/2000/XP.) The loader also contains all of the necessary failure stubs like the operating system itsel
11:36:12  <Darkvater> there :)
11:37:11  *** VanilleBert [] has left #openttd []
11:37:51  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
11:39:01  <peter1138> oh dear, i crashed it
11:39:07  <peter1138> switching from full to window
11:39:13  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
11:39:35  <Darkvater> peter1138: yes, handling a missing unicows.dll more gracefully would be better; but...
11:39:44  <Darkvater> peter1138: what version of the dll do you have? The just downloaded one?
11:39:59  <peter1138> no idea, i downloaded it from some crappy site
11:40:26  <Darkvater> ?
11:40:29  <Darkvater> download it from MS
11:40:31  * peter1138 ponders win2king
11:40:38  <Darkvater> you need that version; if you have the old version it crashes
11:40:43  <Darkvater> bug in unicoWS
11:41:25  <KUDr> we should include unicows in the package
11:41:26  <stillunknown> peter1138: you always live on the dark side?
11:41:41  <Darkvater> KUDr: we discussed yesterday, and it's not possible
11:41:50  <KUDr> must be possible
11:42:21  <KUDr> M$ allows it and GPL would be against itself if it prohibits it
11:42:28  <Darkvater> ask Brianetta
11:42:33  <KUDr> and i can't belive that
11:43:00  <KUDr> I didn't understand his explanation
11:43:34  <KUDr> M$ allows it for sure
11:43:44  <Darkvater> he said any bundled file must have the source available or on a site linked to it
11:43:46  <KUDr> and GLP << well we can ask them
11:43:47  <Darkvater> or something like that
11:44:02  <KUDr> yes, if it is your file
11:44:04  <Darkvater> peter1138:
11:45:05  <peter1138> god damn this laptop is slow
11:45:15  <peter1138> takes a good few seconds to start openttd :P
11:45:25  <KUDr> you can't hide sources, but if you use 3rd party library with permision from 3rd party...
11:46:02  <Darkvater> which has to have the source available
11:46:04  <Darkvater> which they don't
11:46:08  <KUDr> no
11:46:32  <KUDr> 3rd party can give you permission for using their non-GPL library
11:47:06  <KUDr> they don't need to open their sources only because we want to use it :)
11:47:33  <Darkvater> I don't think unicows has been explicitly allowed to be bundled to use with gpl
11:47:54  <Darkvater> otherwise there woudln't exist opencow or the mozilla project's unicows
11:49:10  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
11:50:51  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has joined #openttd
11:50:58  <Darkvater>
11:51:00  <Darkvater> objections?
11:51:29  * voodoo070 looks for a gavel
11:52:42  <Bjarni> Darkvater: reading
11:52:48  <Tron> +	/* return (v->subtype == AIR_HELICOPTER) || (v->subtype == AIR_AIRCRAFT); */
11:52:48  <Tron> +	return v->subtype <= AIR_AIRCRAFT;
11:52:52  <Tron> this deserves a comment
11:53:21  <Tron> -	Engine *e;
11:53:21  <Tron> +	const Engine *e;
11:53:22  <Tron> scope
11:53:31  <Tron> (or don't touch it at all)
11:53:47  <Tron> +		Vehicle *v, *u;
11:53:48  <Tron> scope
11:53:50  <Darkvater> Bjarni: hang on (for your diff)
11:54:16  <Bjarni> isn't aircraft subtype 1 a flag for the needed length of runways?
11:54:33  <Bjarni> if it's set, then it needs the long runways or something like that
11:54:35  <Darkvater> no
11:54:46  <Darkvater> that's stored in engine
11:55:37  <Tron> +		v->u.air.state = (v->subtype == AIR_AIRCRAFT) ? TAKEOFF : HELITAKEOFF;
11:55:47  <Tron> == AIR_HELICOPTER ? flip
11:56:07  <Darkvater> no
11:56:09  <Bjarni> I always thought that aircraft subtypes were bitmasks of some kind
11:56:13  <Darkvater> it was != AIR_HELICOPTER
11:56:34  <Tron> i know
11:56:37  <Darkvater> it's more logical to not use negation
11:56:46  <Tron> i didn't say to use negation
11:56:52  <Bjarni> but wouldn't it make more sense to make it use AIR_HELICOPTER when it handles HELITAKEOFF?
11:57:10  <Bjarni> if heli, then HELITAKEOFF else normal takeoff
11:57:33  <Darkvater> that's what it does
11:57:45  <Bjarni> no
11:57:53  <Bjarni> it says if aircraft, then normal, else heli
11:58:02  <Darkvater> Tron: well you could flip the AIR_ part of the TAKEOFF part, I flipped the first
11:58:16  <Tron> that's what i meant
11:58:19  <Darkvater> Bjarni: and tell me; what is the difference?
11:58:20  <Tron> 0 is just a nicer constant
11:58:39  <Darkvater> Tron: like that... one could do that
11:59:01  <Bjarni> if we decide to add a new subtype, then we would need to change this. If he make it work on helicopters instead, the risk of having to change this line later is not as big
11:59:01  <Tron> (also in some places the test is with HELI, so it is more consistent to do it the same way everywhere)
11:59:57  <Darkvater> Bjarni: a new subtype could need a new takeoff type as well, so I'm not worried about that
12:00:47  <Tron> unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar()
12:01:04  <Darkvater> Tron: with *v, *u scope you mean put it in front of the v = vl[1] ?
12:01:46  <Tron> yes
12:02:23  <Darkvater> hmm, so are we now declaring variables mid-block or at the start of the smallest-scope-lbock?
12:02:48  <Tron> declare them where they are initialised if possible
12:04:40  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
12:04:40  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:04:41  <Bjarni> <Tron>	unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar() <-- there is a minor difference. IsAircraftInHangar() would accept shadows as well, but checking for IsAircraftInHangar() and subtype would be the correct way to do this check
12:04:45  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
12:05:13  <Bjarni> oh and ensure that v->tile == tile
12:05:21  <Bjarni> to ensure that it's the right hangar
12:05:35  <Bjarni> I say that I should clean this up after DV commits this
12:05:55  <KUDr> hmm, Darkvater: how would you understand this?:
12:05:55  <KUDr> I would like to bundle GPLed software with some sort of installation software. Does that installer need to have a GPL-compatible license?
12:05:55  <KUDr>     No. The installer and the files it installs are separate works. As a result, the terms of the GPL do not apply to the installation software.
12:06:02  <Bjarni> as it's a cleanup that's not closely related to this patch
12:06:32  <peter1138> KUDr: unicows.dll would be a file it installs
12:06:43  <peter1138> not the installer
12:06:46  <KUDr> so GPL
12:06:52  <KUDr> ok, will search further
12:06:56  <Tron> Bjarni: wtf are you talking about?
12:07:12  <Bjarni> <Tron>	unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar()
12:07:16  <Magus_X> you can't put it and give a warning to the user that the license of it is diferent?
12:07:33  <stillunknown> KUDr:
12:07:35  <stillunknown> The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally dis
12:07:35  <stillunknown> tributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.
12:07:47  <Bjarni> I just looked into this and you are right. It should be cleaned up, but the if checks more than just IsAircraftInHangar()
12:08:05  <Maedhros> Magus_X: no, because you can't distribute them in the same bundle at all
12:08:12  <Bjarni> also I think it does the same check somewhere else
12:08:15  <Magus_X> ah :/
12:09:04  <KUDr> stillunknown: nothing new
12:11:00  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:12:49  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
12:13:37  *** ceji [] has joined #openttd
12:21:17  *** Nigel_ [] has joined #openttd
12:23:06  *** Nigel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:26:29  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:30:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8428 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add proper names to aircraft subtypes instead of magic numbers and add a function IsNormalAircraft() which tells us whether the aircraft is in fact some flying device or a rotor/shadow.
12:31:17  *** Mizipzor [] has joined #openttd
12:33:22  *** DirtYiCE [~dirty_ice@] has joined #openttd
12:34:15  <roboman> gnight
12:34:34  <hylje> "flying device"
12:45:18  *** caladan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:46:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8429 /trunk/src/ (engine.h newgrf.cpp table/engines.h vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: Add a name for AircraftVehicleInfo subtype helicopter and remove some magic numbers related to the subtype.
12:52:51  <Darkvater> bbl
12:54:19  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
12:56:24  *** raimar3 [] has joined #openttd
12:57:28  <valhallasw> <-- zomg.
12:59:59  <Magus_X> lol
13:00:17  <valhallasw> seems to be even longer :o
13:00:35  <valhallasw> at least in minutes *grin*
13:00:38  <Magus_X> i did some videos
13:00:39  <Magus_X> :P
13:01:18  <valhallasw> :D
13:01:25  <Magus_X>
13:01:28  <Magus_X>
13:01:31  <Magus_X> i'm IL-2 addict
13:01:49  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:01:53  <valhallasw> :D
13:02:09  <Magus_X> ah, and this one
13:02:12  <valhallasw> nice fraps quality
13:02:19  <Magus_X> :P
13:02:38  <Magus_X>
13:03:21  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
13:07:49  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:07:49  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
13:08:33  <Magus_X> i'm not good at camera angles :~~
13:15:17  *** picitlama [] has left #openttd []
13:16:38  *** setrodox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:27:04  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
13:33:03  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
13:33:26  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:33:26  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
13:38:17  <KUDr> Darkvater: i probably have it:
13:38:18  <KUDr> 9. License Must Not Restrict Other Software
13:38:18  <KUDr> The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software.
13:38:18  <KUDr>     Rationale: Distributors of open-source software have the right to make their own choices about their own software.
13:38:18  <KUDr>     Yes, the GPL is conformant with this requirement. Software linked with GPLed libraries only inherits the GPL if it forms a single work, not any software with which they are merely distributed.
13:38:21  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
13:38:24  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
13:38:36  <KUDr> Darkvater: ^^
13:40:41  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:41:46  <KUDr> so the unicows.dll does not need to be open source in order to be distributed together with ottd. It is separate program distributed/linked along/together with ottd.
13:44:25  *** ceji [] has left #openttd []
13:44:42  *** GoneWack1 [] has joined #openttd
13:44:42  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:44:45  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
13:47:32  <stillunknown> KUDr: there is a difference between open source and free software
13:48:22  <stillunknown> many licenses probably allow what you want, but not the gpl as far as i know
13:48:42  <valhallasw> the gpl limits the use of gpl'ed libraries in non-gpl programs
13:48:45  <valhallasw> not the reverse
13:50:15  <stillunknown> I don't think so, but if you have a specific piece of the license in mind, please tell me :-)
13:53:06  *** pecisk [~pecisk@] has joined #openttd
13:53:06  *** roboman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:53:10  <stillunknown> valhallasw: read section 3 of the license
13:53:52  <Magus_X> ah, licenses give me a headache
13:54:09  <valhallasw> "For an executable work, complete source
13:54:12  <valhallasw> code means all the source code for all modules it contains" <-- hmm.
13:54:56  <valhallasw> I sincerely hate the GPL
13:55:26  <stillunknown> That's your choice.
13:55:34  <Magus_X> but it is the most suitable for this project, :P
13:55:40  <Magus_X> or you want to make it CC? LOL
13:56:44  <stillunknown> For anything that isn't a library, the gpl is pretty nice, as it prevents companies to reuse the code and not give back what they change.
13:57:15  <Noldo> reuse in something they want to distribute
13:57:26  <stillunknown> true
13:58:15  <stillunknown> BSD license or LGPL is preferable for libraries, as the gpl would limit it's uses.
13:58:34  <Noldo> well, all depends on what you want
13:59:25  <stillunknown> I do know of a library which is gpl, specifically to allow free software to use it and let others buy it.
13:59:50  <PandaMojo> Qt does that, doesn't it?
13:59:56  <Maedhros> yup. so does mysql
13:59:58  <Tron> peter1138?
14:00:18  <stillunknown> Qt is gpl'ed starting version 4 i think.
14:00:24  <Tron> newgrf_engine.cpp:697 - is this used in any sensible way?
14:00:31  <Magus_X> Qt?
14:00:39  <PandaMojo> Magus_X: GUI Widget library
14:00:44  <stillunknown> I was referring to libsamplerate, aka the Secret Rabbit Code
14:00:46  <Magus_X> ah
14:02:37  <PandaMojo> Personally I prefer more permissive licenses for my code if I'm not trying to ransom it or anything :-).
14:04:00  <stillunknown> I'm glad the gpl exists.
14:19:41  <valhallasw> imo the gpl is way too restrictive for people to use
14:20:05  <valhallasw> and I agree the MIT licence would not be the best choice for ottd
14:20:25  <valhallasw> but a simple sharealike licence would do the job fine.. imo
14:20:46  <Magus_X> CC ?
14:21:03  <Magus_X> ah, forget, CC is not sharealike only
14:21:28  <valhallasw> some CC licences have SA, yes
14:21:36  <valhallasw> but CC is for content, not for code
14:21:57  <Magus_X> :/
14:22:06  <valhallasw> iirc
14:22:37  *** wolfy [] has quit [Quit: I'm gone, bye bye :)]
14:23:07  <KUDr> stillunknown: "Yes, the GPL is conformant with this requirement." << this is clear statement (at least to me)
14:24:20  <KUDr> and if i distribute the 3rd party software together with my GPL software on the same medium, can't restrict each other
14:24:22  <valhallasw> KUDr: section 3 clearly states "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains"
14:24:39  <valhallasw> correct, but it's a library the software needs
14:24:48  <KUDr> unicows.dll is not contained in ottd
14:24:55  <KUDr> it is separate work
14:24:59  <KUDr> independent
14:25:06  <valhallasw> it is used as a library in ottd
14:25:07  <valhallasw> ==module
14:25:09  <KUDr> and made as supplement for os
14:25:11  <KUDr> no
14:25:39  <valhallasw> it is not used as a library?
14:25:41  <KUDr> software module is module of my GPL software in definition of terms
14:25:44  <valhallasw> then why is it distributed
14:26:06  <KUDr> this is separated software
14:26:18  <KUDr> which is made by another party
14:26:23  <valhallasw> what defenition of terms
14:26:25  <KUDr> under another licence
14:26:26  <KUDr> etc.
14:26:29  <valhallasw> the one that is not in the licence?
14:26:54  <valhallasw> the word 'module' is only used once in the entire gpl
14:27:03  <valhallasw> in the sentence I just copied
14:27:14  <KUDr> valhallasw: but software is defined
14:27:40  <KUDr> and this module is module of this software
14:27:40  <peter1138> gpl sucks, basically
14:27:47  <KUDr> it does
14:27:52  <valhallasw> gpl is like capitalism
14:28:01  <valhallasw> it sucks, but it's the best there is at the moment ;)
14:28:06  <KUDr> but it doesn't mean you can't install 2 programs together
14:28:18  *** scia [] has joined #openttd
14:28:24  <valhallasw> KUDr: the point is not that the programs are installed together
14:28:33  <KUDr> and?
14:28:34  <valhallasw> the point is a non-GPL'ed lib is used in the program
14:28:43  <KUDr> no
14:28:47  <KUDr> not lib
14:28:54  <KUDr> software
14:28:55  <valhallasw> ?
14:29:04  <KUDr> that is linked with my software
14:29:07  <valhallasw> unicows.dll is not a library?
14:29:32  <KUDr> if i will name it separate software, then it is software
14:29:52  <KUDr> it depends what you tell in your readme
14:29:57  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:29:58  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:29:58  <KUDr> not what it is technically
14:30:04  <peter1138> software is software
14:30:06  <valhallasw> yes, but unicows.dll IS USED as a LIBRARY in openttd
14:30:16  <KUDr> doesn't matter
14:30:19  <valhallasw> it does.
14:30:28  <KUDr> it is used as software that is linked together
14:30:34  <valhallasw> yes
14:30:40  <valhallasw> and hence it is a module
14:30:44  <KUDr> yes, so read what i pasted there
14:30:44  <Noldo> it doesn't matter in the sense that it doesn't make openttd non-gpl
14:30:48  <KUDr> period
14:31:05  <valhallasw> I read it.
14:31:11  <valhallasw> It is not the same case.
14:31:29  <KUDr> it applies perfectly
14:31:30  <valhallasw> the thing you pasted is about putting firefox on a windows cd
14:31:35  <Noldo> it does mater in the sense that it makes openttd a bit less free because it depends on another non-free component
14:31:48  <valhallasw> except firefox is not GPL, but you get the point
14:32:01  <KUDr> Noldo: "non-free component"?
14:32:07  <KUDr> which one you mean?
14:32:17  <KUDr> unicows if free
14:32:37  <Noldo> which license?
14:32:49  <KUDr> "which license"?
14:32:53  <glx> EULA
14:33:06  <valhallasw> It's not open source. It is free as in it costs 0$ to use
14:33:16  <Noldo> KUDr: under which license is it going to be distributed
14:33:19  <glx> it is redistributable IIRC
14:33:27  <KUDr> Noldo: ottd
14:33:39  <Noldo> ottd has it's own licence?
14:33:43  <KUDr> yes, redistributable by call makers
14:33:48  <KUDr> and we are call makers
14:33:48  <hylje> OPL!
14:34:16  <glx> like directx runtime
14:34:18  <Noldo> last time I checked that's not free
14:34:35  <KUDr> Noldo: what is not free?
14:34:39  <Maedhros> actually, it might be ok -
14:35:00  <Noldo> limiting who can distribute it or with what
14:35:04  <Maedhros> it could be argued that unicows is normally distributed with the major components of the os
14:35:24  <valhallasw> Maedhros: yes, but then there is no need to distribute it
14:35:26  *** dfox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:35:30  <Noldo> and of cource there is the matter of sources too which is en obstacle too
14:35:45  <valhallasw> we want to distribute it because people do not have it -> not a standard part of the OS
14:36:09  <KUDr> "matter of sources"?
14:36:11  <glx> anyway it's easily available on MS site
14:36:16  <KUDr> what you till have?
14:36:28  <KUDr> it is different softwasre
14:37:07  <valhallasw> KUDr: MODULES need to be open source. unicows.dll is a module of ottd. unicows.dll is not gpl'ed. period/
14:37:20  <KUDr> "easily available" << the easiest way would be if we install it
14:38:21  <KUDr> valhallasw: modules of GPLed SW, unicows is not GPLed and is _NOT_part of any GPLed software
14:38:39  <valhallasw> It is if you use in in ottd.
14:38:45  <KUDr> so you apply the restriction to something what is outside that
14:38:51  <KUDr> no
14:39:15  <valhallasw> of course it is.
14:39:22  <valhallasw> ottd cannot run without linking to it
14:39:27  <glx> unicows.dll is a module of win9x/me
14:39:44  <KUDr> nvidia driver is also not part of OTTD or other SW even you distribute it with it
14:39:50  <glx> ottd can run on all nt without unicows.dll
14:40:14  <valhallasw> KUDr: no, but ottd does not use or need the nvidia driver
14:40:22  <valhallasw> glx: then why do we need to distribute it?
14:40:31  <KUDr> valhallasw: "linking to it" << yes, exactly, so it stays outside of it, it only links together during runtime
14:40:33  <glx> to simplify user's life
14:40:38  <Maedhros> valhallasw: because it isn't part of win9x
14:40:41  <KUDr> as any other part of OS
14:41:07  <KUDr> valhallasw: it is freely redistributable OS suplement
14:41:21  <valhallasw> freely redistributable != free software
14:41:22  <KUDr> not part or module of ottd
14:41:41  <valhallasw> the philosophy of the gpl is that all gpl'ed software should be able to be created from other free software
14:42:02  <Noldo> valhallasw: linux version will answer that
14:42:05  <KUDr> "freely redistributable" means in this case that M$ is OK if we add it into OTTD installer
14:42:13  <valhallasw> Noldo?
14:42:58  <KUDr> valhallasw: ottd was not created from/based on unicows
14:43:13  * Maedhros suspects it would be easier to write to the FSF and get a definitive answer
14:43:48  <KUDr> Maedhros: maybe
14:44:21  <Noldo> there is nothing that stops you from distributing any non-free file with a gpl'd software
14:44:31  <KUDr> but taking 3rd party SW under GPL regulations is nonsense << GPL is not that viral
14:44:46  <KUDr> Noldo: yes
14:44:50  <KUDr> exactly
14:45:08  <valhallasw> you are completely missing the point
14:45:17  <KUDr> valhallasw: you are
14:45:31  <Noldo> about the philosophy that valhallasw mentioned, making a windows version is already against it
14:45:42  <KUDr> GPL regulated the software and its derivatives
14:45:50  <KUDr> not other software
14:46:22  <valhallasw> KUDr: the point is it regulates openttd and is so, that ottd cannot use non-free third-party modules, except if they are part of the OS
14:46:26  <KUDr> so if unicows is not GPLed, it cannot be covered by GPL
14:46:54  <valhallasw> correct
14:46:56  <KUDr> "cannot use non-free third-party modules" << not true
14:47:08  <KUDr> with written permission you can
14:47:27  <KUDr> and this one is free
14:47:28  <valhallasw> 15:24 < valhallasw> KUDr: section 3 clearly states "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains"
14:47:41  <valhallasw> the point is not MS limiting the use.. geez
14:47:53  <KUDr> "executable work" == ottd
14:48:03  <KUDr> ottd != unicows
14:48:04  * peter1138 yawns
14:48:35  <valhallasw> correct
14:48:54  <KUDr> so "executable work" is regulated by GPL
14:49:02  <valhallasw> For <ottd>, complete source code means all the source code for all modules <unicows=dynamically linked module> it contains
14:49:02  <KUDr> but unicows not
14:49:06  <valhallasw> yes
14:49:13  <KUDr> it stays outside "executable work"
14:49:24  <valhallasw> and "executable work" is limited by the GPL in using certain modules
14:49:33  <KUDr> so it doesn't need to met GPL requirements
14:49:35  <glx> unicows is a part on win9X/ME os, but this part is an addon
14:49:45  <Noldo> valhallasw: is there somewhere an exception about os stuff then?
14:49:50  <valhallasw> Noldo: yes
14:50:09  <valhallasw> as "executable work" is required by GPL to publish the source code of all "modules"
14:50:13  <Maedhros> according to, we cannot distribute unicows.dll with openttd
14:50:33  <valhallasw> and we are not licenced to distribute the source code of unicows.dll
14:50:49  <valhallasw> ergo we cannot publish an openttd version that needs unicows.dll
14:50:54  <Noldo> so dynamically linked modules that belong to os are ok, but ones that aren't are?
14:51:02  <Noldo> and how is the difference defined?
14:51:26  <valhallasw> However, as a
14:51:26  <valhallasw> special exception, the source code distributed need not include
14:51:26  <valhallasw> anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary
14:51:26  <valhallasw> form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the
14:51:26  <valhallasw> operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component
14:51:26  <Magus_X> even if you ask permission?
14:51:28  <valhallasw> itself accompanies the executable.
14:51:29  <Magus_X> even if you ask permission?
14:51:32  <KUDr> valhallasw: there is nowhere statement that would prohibit using of 3rd party SW, and also there is nothing about what can or can not be installed together with GPLed software, so clearly if we can call/link it, we can also redistribute it on the same medium
14:51:46  <valhallasw> KUDr: WE CANNOT CALL OR LINK IT
14:51:57  <valhallasw> that's the problem
14:52:02  <valhallasw> not wether we can distribute it or not
14:52:15  <valhallasw> we can call the version that is distributed in the OS
14:52:19  <valhallasw> but not any other version
14:52:19  <KUDr> valhallasw: ok, then it is another problem
14:52:21  <Magus_X> you can't ask permission?
14:52:32  <KUDr> we call/link it
14:52:32  <Magus_X> and place Unicows© blablabla?
14:52:42  <valhallasw> Magus_X: we could ask MS to publish the source code, yes
14:52:47  <Magus_X> ah
14:52:48  <KUDr> so we will break nothing if we will also distribute it
14:52:51  <Magus_X> Unicows is from M$?
14:53:04  <valhallasw> not 100% sure
14:53:05  <Magus_X> :~~
14:53:36  <valhallasw> *secondly*, if we use the standard-OS unicows.dll, we may use it, but we *cannot* distribute it
14:53:42  <valhallasw> ("unless that component
14:53:44  <valhallasw> itself accompanies the executable.")
14:53:55  <KUDr> valhallasw: it is total nonsense: "<valhallasw> KUDr: WE CANNOT CALL OR LINK IT"
14:53:56  <Magus_X> hey
14:54:05  <Magus_X> unicows dll is available on windows?
14:54:15  <Noldo> Magus_X: on some but no all
14:54:25  <KUDr> Magus_X: it is not needed on NT or later
14:54:27  <Magus_X> because if it is, you cant just link it?
14:54:33  <KUDr> only on 9x it is needed
14:54:45  <KUDr> but supplied as addon
14:54:59  <Magus_X> :(
14:55:10  <KUDr> Magus_X: you can link it
14:55:13  <valhallasw> which means we can have a NT version with unicows.dll support
14:55:15  <KUDr> if it is there
14:55:17  <valhallasw> but not a 9x-version
14:55:35  <Magus_X> what unicows.dll does?
14:55:37  <KUDr> "NT version with unicows.dll support"?
14:55:40  <KUDr> he?
14:55:42  <Magus_X> i mean, it is for audio? video?
14:55:45  <KUDr> wtf?
14:55:53  <valhallasw> KUDr: we can use libraries that are standard in the OS
14:56:00  <valhallasw> unicows.dll is standard in NT, but not in 9x
14:56:01  <peter1138> NT doesn't need it
14:56:04  <valhallasw> ah.
14:56:07  <KUDr> Magus_X: unified cattle
14:56:13  <KUDr> or unicode
14:56:13  <glx> unicows.dll is a wrapper around ansi API to provide unicide support for win9X/ME
14:56:18  <valhallasw> achso
14:56:18  <Magus_X> ah
14:56:33  <valhallasw> then we cannot use it at all
14:56:38  <KUDr> valhallasw: it is not needed on NT
14:56:50  <KUDr> what is not clear on this fact?
14:56:50  <valhallasw> nm that comment about the NT version then
14:57:05  <Magus_X> [[KUDr]]: the fact of we can't distribute it
14:57:08  <valhallasw> I misread
14:57:25  <KUDr> the same with GPL
14:57:25  <Magus_X> *the fact is that*
14:57:48  <Magus_X> GPL is good ( until you need support of another thing that isn't gpl )
14:58:05  <valhallasw> the fact is GPL is evil, but it is the best of all evils
14:58:33  <Magus_X> and what about LGPL?
14:59:24  <valhallasw> LGPL only changes the rules about the "software" being used in non-GPL software
14:59:27  <valhallasw> iirc
14:59:29  <KUDr> it would behard to explain thet OTTD is library :)
15:00:20  <valhallasw> the LGPL can be used for non-library software ;)
15:00:53  <KUDr> ottd is GPL software and as any other GPL SW it can cooperate/use any non-GPL software
15:01:17  <valhallasw> then read the GPL until you understand the last paragraph of section 3
15:01:45  <KUDr> there are no restrictions on it as long as this non-GPL SW is not part of OTTD
15:01:46  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:02:03  <Noldo> KUDr: what is ment by 'part'
15:02:03  <KUDr> and unicows is not part/module of OTTD
15:02:29  <valhallasw> if you use the library, of course it is a module
15:03:05  <Noldo> is the linkage to unicows dynamic or static?
15:03:17  <KUDr> valhallasw: technically yes, but then any video driver which is linked with it is also part of it
15:03:24  <valhallasw> yes.
15:03:33  <KUDr> and ATI and nvidia drivers are also not GPL
15:03:46  <KUDr> so where is the problem?
15:03:46  <valhallasw> ATI drivers are not exactly linked to ottd
15:03:54  <KUDr> in your understanding
15:04:00  <KUDr> they are
15:04:03  <valhallasw> why?
15:04:12  <KUDr> they have also user-mode parts
15:04:15  <KUDr> as DLLs
15:04:18  <valhallasw> yes
15:04:33  <valhallasw> but ottd does nor statically nor dynamically link to those DLL's
15:04:43  <KUDr> so problem is only in your interpretation
15:04:52  <KUDr> yes, we do
15:04:52  <valhallasw> 16:04 < valhallasw> but ottd does nor statically nor dynamically link to those DLL's
15:04:57  <valhallasw> do I need to repeat myself?
15:05:13  <peter1138> we link to directx :D
15:05:17  <KUDr> you don't need to repeat it as it is invalid
15:05:24  <valhallasw> invalid?
15:05:29  <valhallasw> peter1138: directx is part of the OS ;)
15:05:35  <KUDr> yes, directx is another example
15:05:38  <peter1138> but we don't link to any specific video driver, of course
15:05:40  <KUDr> no
15:05:44  <glx> unicows is part of the os too
15:05:51  <Maedhros> we;re also not trying to distribute directx :P
15:05:51  <KUDr> we can redistribute direct x too
15:05:56  <Noldo> really?
15:05:57  <valhallasw> no, we can not
15:05:57  <KUDr> it is supplement to OS
15:06:08  <KUDr> any SW vendor can
15:06:14  <valhallasw> but the GPL limits us
15:06:14  <peter1138> lots of games used to, back in the direct3 era
15:06:17  <peter1138> it was annoying ;p
15:06:18  <KUDr> including GPL vendors
15:06:30  <valhallasw> okay, guys
15:06:40  <Noldo> peter1138: they might have had explicit permission
15:06:50  <hylje> peter1138: most games redistribute directx nowadays as well
15:06:54  <glx> [16:06:27] <peter1138> it was annoying ;p <-- mostly when they wanted to downgrade your DX installation :)
15:06:57  <valhallasw> Noldo: the point is not about MS allowing us to use it
15:07:01  <KUDr> Noldo: permission from who?
15:07:08  <peter1138> i dunno, i don't touch modern games
15:07:20  <peter1138> glx: yes
15:07:23  <valhallasw> KUDr: (1) For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable.
15:07:25  <Noldo> valhallasw: I know, but is also an issue
15:07:41  <KUDr> "all modules it contains"
15:07:50  <KUDr> this is clear to me
15:07:53  <valhallasw> KUDr: (2) However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs,
15:07:55  <peter1138> bored now
15:07:59  <valhallasw> (note the *special*)
15:08:05  <KUDr> OTTD doesn't contain unicows
15:08:10  <valhallasw> (3) *unless that component itself accompanies the executable.*
15:08:16  <glx> valhallasw: we don't provide zlib, png or sdl source but we use them
15:08:18  <valhallasw> OTTD dynamically links to it
15:08:20  <KUDr> unicows is installed together, but not contained
15:08:25  <KUDr> yes
15:08:34  <KUDr> but it is not regulated
15:08:44  <KUDr> you can link to whatever you want
15:09:01  <valhallasw> glx: you only need to be able to hand over the source to anyone who asks
15:09:12  <valhallasw> you do not need to distribute the source on the same medium etc
15:09:14  <Ailure> "MSN names are like a logarithmic derivative. The longer your name, the less IQ you have."
15:09:17  <Ailure> Just made that up
15:09:21  <peter1138> regulated? heh
15:09:28  <Ailure> after seeing some classmate with a really long and annoying IM nickname on MSN
15:09:51  <valhallasw> KUDr: GPL'ed software *cannot* link to whatever you want
15:09:58  <valhallasw> that's the whole point
15:10:14  <KUDr> valhallasw: if it true, what you tell, then any GPL plugin to non-GPL SW is invalid
15:10:18  <KUDr> nonsense
15:10:23  <valhallasw> KUDr: that is very true
15:10:26  <valhallasw> but is another case
15:10:31  <KUDr> no
15:10:35  <KUDr> it is not true
15:10:48  <valhallasw> Unles you use the LGPL, it is
15:10:53  <KUDr> it is legal to make OS extensions under GPL
15:10:57  <Noldo> link statically or dynamically?
15:11:05  <KUDr> even for non-GPL OS
15:11:15  <KUDr> the same for any commercial SW
15:11:20  <valhallasw> it is against the GPL to load modules in a non-GPL OS
15:11:25  <KUDr> no
15:11:31  <valhallasw> but that is a completely different subject
15:11:32  <KUDr> you misread this
15:11:41  <valhallasw> and if you do not even see that, this discussion is over
15:12:00  <valhallasw> <- read.
15:12:06  <Tron> could you move this to #zealotry?
15:12:19  <KUDr> valhallasw: you have pasted many lines here but nowhere it is stated what you derive from it
15:12:19  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
15:12:26  *** Tuzlo [] has quit []
15:12:31  <valhallasw> KUDr: from the GPL
15:12:33  <stillunknown> valhallasw: you can use stuff commonly available on systems, as long as it's not in the package
15:12:34  <valhallasw> WHAT ELSE
15:12:35  <valhallasw> geez.
15:12:45  <valhallasw> I'm outta here.
15:12:51  *** valhallasw is now known as valhallasw`gone
15:13:30  <KUDr> Tron: is "zealotry" some SW discussed here?
15:13:41  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
15:13:43  <KUDr> we discussed about OTTD
15:13:47  <Digitalfox> Now this is the way to finish a discussion.. Just leaving.. Oh well ..
15:14:06  <KUDr> yeah, it helps
15:14:36  <valhallasw`gone> Digitalfox: hey, if people don't read what you type, and dont even try to imagine where quotes come from, I quit the discussion.
15:14:55  <Tron> KUDr: no, it's no software
15:15:31  <stillunknown> he label "computer zealot" pejoratively refers to a person who strongly advocates a specific operating system, programming language, program or hardware for every application, appropriate or not.
15:15:34  <KUDr> valhallasw`gone: we read what you type, but please don't force use to belive it
15:16:27  <KUDr> stillunknown: thanks, but still i don'tunderstand why we should move OTTD licensing discussion there
15:18:12  <Ailure> hmm
15:20:16  <Ailure> what did I miss
15:20:16  <stillunknown> KUDr: i don't know why it should move there too
15:20:33  <peter1138> nothing interesting
15:20:40  <Digitalfox> valhallasw`gone: You have to try to understand everyone point of view.. Then explain in a easy way why you think your point of view is right one :)
15:20:42  <Ailure> seemed like pages of rambling
15:20:47  <Ailure> for a non-issue
15:20:55  <voodoo070> mooo
15:23:51  *** pecisk [~pecisk@] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
15:25:08  *** pecisk [~pecisk@] has joined #openttd
15:25:13  *** blathijs [] has quit [Server closed connection]
15:25:14  *** blathijs [] has joined #openttd
15:28:11  <Digitalfox> For relaxing a joke.. A guy goes to the hospital, he waits in waiting room for his women giving birth.. When the doctor comes, the doctor says " You are father of 6 kids, congratulations" and the guy says " Thanks doctor, but my dick is so big, strong and powerfull that i already knowed that she would had a lot of kid's".. And the doctor answers " Well then your dick is rusty that they were...
15:28:12  <Digitalfox> ...born black " .. :)
15:28:28  <Digitalfox> Sorry for some bad translation from portugues to english
15:28:54  *** scia_ [] has joined #openttd
15:29:26  <Digitalfox> I hope you people inderstand the joke and no offense to anyone :)
15:29:36  <Digitalfox> understand
15:30:23  <valhallasw`gone> Digitalfox: I tried and failed, so I quit.
15:30:23  <peter1138> well it makes no sense in enlish...
15:31:00  <peter1138> GGG
15:31:39  <Digitalfox> peter1138: Ok i'll explain the guy thinks he has the the best dick on the world, and the doctor says he might have, but his children are black when the guy is white
15:31:55  <Digitalfox> rusty.. Got it ??
15:32:11  <peter1138> rusty is reddy brown, not black
15:32:34  <valhallasw`gone> meh :p
15:32:38  *** valhallasw`gone is now known as valhallasw
15:32:43  <peter1138> but, it was a crap anyway
15:32:50  <Digitalfox> ok, so translation in altavista failed..
15:32:53  <valhallasw> What happend if you put 5 emo's in a square room?
15:33:01  <Ailure> jokes tends to lose their sting
15:33:02  <Ailure> when translated
15:33:29  <valhallasw> One kills himself because he has no corner to cry in
15:34:16  <Digitalfox> Yeah i guess it depends on culture of eveyone.. The way some countrys has some expressions not understanded in other countrys
15:34:21  <Digitalfox> everyone
15:35:46  *** scia [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:36:25  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
15:37:35  *** Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
15:41:50  *** scia_ is now known as scia
15:43:04  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: too much ssh lag]
15:43:47  *** Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
15:44:36  *** sergey [] has joined #openttd
15:50:35  <Ailure> and what's generally acceptable as well
15:50:41  <Ailure> jokes go more further in Europa than they do in USA
15:51:49  <voodoo070> i'd say only in public
15:51:54  <voodoo070> puritans
15:55:59  <peter1138> more further? heh
15:56:08  *** EER|OTTD [~Henk@] has joined #openttd
15:56:15  *** thunder1 [] has left #openttd []
15:57:17  <EER|OTTD> Hello everyone, I just noticed that when placing signals, instead of the 'normal' signals, the mechanical signals are placed (so now I ctrl+click to place normal signals), is this intended behaviour?
15:57:28  <EER|OTTD> (using latest nightly)
15:58:36  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yes
15:58:39  *** Tefad [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:58:42  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: see patch config
15:58:54  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: automatically place semaphores until the given date
15:59:10  <MiHaMeK> semaphore = mechanical signal
15:59:17  <EER|OTTD> ok, thx :D
15:59:21  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:00:47  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: in exchange for the above information, could you please create some docs with screenshots about it for the page?
16:01:25  <peter1138> heh
16:01:43  <MiHaMeK> peter1138: ? :) how about the above 'business model'? :D
16:01:46  <EER|OTTD> ofcourse np
16:01:57  <EER|OTTD> where would you like to have it?
16:03:08  <voodoo070> it can never be good once people mention business models..
16:03:11  <EER|OTTD> I'll add it to Patches:
16:03:32  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good
16:03:41  <MiHaMeK> voodoo070: i was just kidding ;)
16:03:49  <voodoo070> as was i :)
16:03:57  <EER|OTTD> I just haven't seen the gui option in configure patches btw, should it be edited in ini, or am I just overlooking?
16:04:32  <EER|OTTD> o wait
16:04:37  <EER|OTTD> I'm just overlooking it :P
16:04:45  <EER|OTTD> (expected on/off)
16:04:49  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yeah, that's what I wanted to suggest :)
16:05:00  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: no, actually you can supply a date
16:05:06  *** Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
16:09:18  *** caladan [] has joined #openttd
16:09:32  *** Tefad [] has joined #openttd
16:18:45  <EER|OTTD>
16:19:06  <EER|OTTD> I have a screenshot locally, but I don't see any place to upload it (?)
16:19:30  <EER|OTTD> if the procedure is explained, I'll add it later (I'm off to eat right now)
16:20:03  <SpComb> Logs:
16:20:03  <Born_Acorn> !logs
16:20:20  <voodoo070> openttd should have more road support
16:20:23  <voodoo070> like highways or some such
16:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> so where's your patch?
16:24:56  <Born_Acorn> I see theres been no development on custom bridgeheads for a while. Has development stalled?
16:26:18  <Born_Acorn> EER|OTTD, "Upload File"?
16:26:33  <Born_Acorn> But that only shows if you are logged in.
16:27:49  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: create wiki account, and you'll see an option, 'Upload file' appear
16:28:55  <Born_Acorn> You'll have three fields to fill in, and the last one is optional
16:29:16  <glx> I can see this option even without account but I must be logged in to use it :)
16:29:36  <Born_Acorn> The second one is filled in automactically
16:31:49  *** ceji [] has joined #openttd
16:32:19  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has joined #openttd
16:32:23  *** pecisk [~pecisk@] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
16:33:00  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
16:33:08  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:39:28  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
16:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Born_Acorn: it was decided that there were too many obstacles to overcome, and then there was discussion about stacked tiles and variable bridges, which was the cause of the c++ conversion
16:43:36  <Born_Acorn> ah
16:44:21  <caladan> I created a little demo how to build railways
16:44:38  <caladan>
16:44:41  <caladan> 16MB
16:44:49  <Ailure> why not put it on youtube or osmething?
16:44:50  <Ailure> heh
16:44:55  <Ailure> *downloads*
16:45:08  <caladan> cause i dont like registering
16:45:22  <caladan> and with youtube you download it anyway, but it aint easy to save to disk
16:45:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8430 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
16:45:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
16:45:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Replace the rather obscure control flow for handling aircraft/ship/train orders by something remotly comprehensible (see r3584)
16:45:50  <caladan> But i guess there's an easier way to make demos...
16:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> why MPEG-2 if you ccould do MPEG-4/XviD with half the size?
16:46:05  <Ailure> also what was it made with?
16:46:11  <caladan> xvidcap
16:46:17  <caladan> did i encode it as mpeg2?
16:46:23  <Ailure> well youtube would also be a reliable host
16:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> .mpeg is only for MPEG-2
16:46:42  <Ailure> while it's not sure for how long you have that account, it seems to be related to a university
16:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> MPEG-4 must usually be stored in a container format like avi or ogm
16:47:12  <caladan> ok, i hope it's only extension, it should be mpeg4
16:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know what you encoded, but the extension is odd
16:47:34  <caladan> if demos like that are ok, i will upload it to youtube
16:48:08  <caladan> mplayers sais its mpeg4
16:48:17  <caladan> says*
16:48:17  <Ailure> lesse
16:48:20  <Ailure> if anything I have plays it
16:48:37  <Ailure> VLC for the win
16:48:41  <caladan> change ext to .avi then, maybe it helps
16:48:50  <Ailure> uhm
16:48:53  <Ailure> there's one problem with it
16:49:04  <Ailure> it runs a little wee fast
16:49:04  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
16:49:19  <caladan> yes, it does
16:49:26  <caladan> could force it to run slowly...
16:49:33  <caladan> it just didnt get 20 frames/s
16:49:34  <Ailure> what are you recording with?
16:49:50  <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: all done :)
16:50:09  <caladan> xvidcap
16:50:22  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
16:51:26  <Ailure> ah
16:51:34  <Ailure> seems like any decent video recording utility for windows costs money
16:51:40  <Ailure> and any free is for X-server systems
16:51:47  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good job, lemme see :)
16:51:53  <EER|OTTD>
16:52:15  <EER|OTTD> I noticed later that everything else is called 'the real name of the setting including spaces'
16:52:29  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: you should replace the image
16:52:33  <EER|OTTD> but maybe that can be fixed somehow (I'm quite new in Wiki editing)
16:52:51  * EER|OTTD is on it
16:52:58  <caladan> i can look for more linux programms that do that, maybe some are faster...
16:53:39  <Ailure> well
16:53:44  <Ailure> you shouldn't be a ADHD kid
16:53:46  <Ailure> to be able to watch it
16:53:47  <Ailure> :P
16:53:49  <Ailure> that's a requirment
16:53:50  <Ailure> lol
16:53:57  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: moved page to here:
16:54:14  <Ailure> that video looked like watching a starcraft player playing openTTD
16:54:28  <hylje> :o
16:54:35  <hylje> i think i also play ottd sc style
16:55:12  <Ailure> hehe well to admit
16:55:18  <Ailure> I started using more shortcuts lately
16:55:36  <Ailure> and juts not the most useful ones (such as delete to remove all windows)
16:55:43  <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: updated the picture in
16:55:50  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yeah, thanks, just checked :)
16:56:22  <hylje> Ailure: i construct stuff purely by shortcuts
16:56:26  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: edit this too, please:
16:56:35  <EER|OTTD> hmm, it doesn't look very well here, like it's stretched or something
16:56:41  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: add the newly documented option
16:56:50  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: press Ctrl-Shift-R
16:56:58  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: to force reload the page
16:57:04  <EER|OTTD> ah :D
16:57:07  <EER|OTTD> better
16:57:33  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
16:57:36  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
16:57:44  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: and, btw, could you please document the option 'Max distance from edge for Oil Refineries'? :)
16:58:33  <EER|OTTD> does that do what I think it does? minimal distance from edge in tiles?
16:59:06  <EER|OTTD> make that maximal
16:59:56  <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: oil_refinery_limit ?
17:00:20  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: maximal distance from edge
17:00:28  <Ailure> heh
17:00:35  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: what does the word 'maximal' means to you? ;P
17:00:45  <EER|OTTD> virtually nothing :P
17:01:05  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: this options determines the maximum allowed distance from the edge for an oil refinery
17:01:51  <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: both added :)
17:02:13  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good job
17:02:24  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: now you can go and play an hour of OpenTTD :-)
17:02:27  <EER|OTTD> finally I can continue my OTTD game :D
17:02:27  <EER|OTTD> :P
17:02:45  <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: after that time, be here and offer your services to extend the wiki further :D
17:03:00  <EER|OTTD> hehe
17:03:07  <EER|OTTD> I may be ;)
17:03:11  <MiHaMeK> ok :)
17:03:38  <EER|OTTD> it's only a 128x256 map so it shouldn't take too long :P
17:03:45  <MiHaMeK> ok
17:04:04  <MiHaMeK> after the first year you've realized profit, suspend the game and come back :D
17:04:49  <Born_Acorn> MiHaMeK, haven't you updated the MediaWiki version yet? :p
17:04:53  <EER|OTTD> It's already 1958 and profitable since 1951 ;)
17:05:02  <EER|OTTD> but multiplayer
17:05:04  *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2Eat
17:05:23  <Born_Acorn> 1.9.0 has been released since I suggested it, which is even better than 1.8.9!
17:06:01  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: err... good idea! :)
17:06:22  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: maybe i'll update it ... err... this weekend.. or... soon? :D
17:06:36  <Born_Acorn> It is this weekend! Aha!
17:06:45  <Born_Acorn> I can't find any screenshots of someone using the DBSet on the wiki. :(
17:08:09  <Born_Acorn> As the new template I just made requires screenshots
17:08:53  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: ok, are you experienced in upgrading the wiki? :)
17:09:06  <Tron> the english wikipedia entry has an image with DB set trains
17:09:21  <Born_Acorn> I'm not, no. :p
17:09:39  <Born_Acorn> Ooh, there are, too.
17:10:06  <Born_Acorn> <-- But they do have a nice manual. :p
17:12:52  <MiHaMeK> thanks
17:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a few DBSetXL screenshots, but they are from MiniIN
17:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> even worse, a modified MiniIN ;)
17:15:27  <Born_Acorn> I found a suitable one. :p
17:18:19  <Born_Acorn> Argh, it hurts
17:18:24  *** DirtYiCE [~dirty_ice@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:18:51  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: geee, I have to update to php 5.1..
17:19:10  <Born_Acorn> Are you behind the times, MiHaMeK? :p
17:19:45  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: hmm, I'm already having php5.1 installed
17:19:46  <MiHaMeK> good
17:21:08  <MiHaMeK> hmm
17:21:13  <MiHaMeK> i'll upgrade to php5.2
17:25:52  <MiHaMeK> hmm, ready :)
17:27:54  <MiHaMeK> PHP Version 5.2.0 :D
17:34:53  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
17:35:01  <Born_Acorn> The bleeding edge of PHP!
17:35:43  <hylje> :o
17:37:37  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: yeah, and probably the edge is bleeding from numerous bugs :D
17:37:44  <Born_Acorn> heehee
17:37:59  <hylje> i heard the php people don't want to fix some blatant bugs
17:38:20  <MiHaMeK> ls
17:38:24  <MiHaMeK> err.. wrong terminal
17:38:27  <MiHaMeK> :D
17:38:35  <hylje> :wq
17:39:55  <Maedhros> i thought that was a smiley for a minute there...
17:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's the look you get from too much viming ;)
17:42:04  <MiHaMeK> :DDD
17:42:51  <MiHaMeK> err..
17:42:54  <MiHaMeK> anyhow..
17:43:01  <MiHaMeK> Buckle your seatbelt Dorothy, cause goin' byebye..
17:43:10  <hylje> not an editor command: DDD
17:43:11  <MiHaMeK> (wiki will be down for maintenance)
17:44:36  <MiHaMeK> from now on
17:49:13  <Born_Acorn> :o
17:49:17  <Born_Acorn> Can I remove AI companies via Console?
17:49:53  <Born_Acorn> ooh, never mind, I just did it another way
17:50:30  <Born_Acorn> Use the cheat to take it over, delete everything and spend all it's money. :p
17:50:46  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50:47  <MiHaMeK> :D
17:51:51  *** Sacro_ [Ben@] has joined #openttd
17:52:25  *** TSC [] has quit [Server closed connection]
17:52:29  *** TSC [] has joined #openttd
17:53:03  *** dfox [] has quit [Quit: C-x C-c]
17:53:19  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
17:53:55  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56:04  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
17:57:08  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57:29  <MiHaMeK> hmm
17:57:33  <MiHaMeK> almost finished
17:57:41  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: ping
17:59:24  <Born_Acorn> Pong
17:59:28  <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: om
17:59:29  <MiHaMeK> pm
17:59:39  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
18:00:57  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Server closed connection]
18:04:17  *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea
18:04:54  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:09:06  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:30  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:25:38  * EER|OTTD is going to read something, it looks like the new wiki is not online yet
18:26:27  *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@] has joined #openttd
18:26:27  *** EER|OTTD [~Henk@] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by banana]
18:31:24  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
18:31:31  <MeusH> hello
18:31:49  <caladan> hi
18:33:12  *** dfox [] has quit [Quit: C-x C-c]
18:33:18  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
18:35:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8431 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
18:35:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-27 19:34:37
18:35:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 fixed by arnaullv (4)
18:35:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed, 2 changed by MiR (6)
18:35:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
18:35:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 4 fixed by glx (4)
18:35:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 fixed by Neonox (4)
18:40:35  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:58:25  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
19:03:24  *** MiHaMeK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:06  <caladan> hmm, where are mouse_up events handled?
19:04:17  <caladan> i found mouse_down but cant get mouse_up
19:04:58  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]]
19:08:37  <peter1138> if the mouse isn't down, it's up
19:09:12  *** Neonox [] has joined #openttd
19:09:34  <caladan> hmm, ok, but then drag&drop works as:
19:09:50  <caladan> wait for down, wait till we got zeros?
19:09:53  *** setrodox [] has joined #openttd
19:10:09  <peter1138> who knowsx
19:10:14  <caladan> ok :D
19:10:30  <caladan> cause wanted to do something like hmmm, writing down user actions...
19:10:45  <SpComb> drag&drop until the mouse stops moving
19:10:57  <caladan> hmm, it cant be like that
19:11:08  <caladan> cause you can just wait a little holding button
19:11:19  <SpComb> it *could* be like that
19:13:10  * SpComb reads the OpenTTD section
19:13:15  <SpComb> the last time I did this was a while ago
19:18:36  <caladan> hmm, the easiest way to make small demos-tutorials would be record events and then just reload them from file in proper time
19:19:10  <Maedhros> which would also be very useful for bug reports
19:19:40  <caladan> so if someone would like to help me, i would try to do it
19:20:30  <caladan> but if you say, that is just a lack of button beeing pressed i will try hmm, do something like emulating up event :D
19:21:23  <MeusH> caladan, some people have already tried recording demos
19:21:35  <MeusH> it's on the forum, their code may help you
19:21:44  <MeusH> and you may know why did they fail...
19:24:45  <MeusH> I remember two people coding demo support for OpenTTD
19:24:50  <MeusH> but I can't find the threads :/
19:25:27  <caladan> i will think of it
19:25:52  <MeusH>
19:25:58  *** Zoney [] has joined #openttd
19:26:04  <MeusH> consider errors with screen resolution
19:26:33  <MeusH> it would be smart to make mouse move to a specific widget rather than a location(x,y)
19:26:39  <Zoney> is there a way i can play openttd on my Jornada?
19:27:16  <MeusH> caladan, here:
19:27:29  <MeusH> Zoney, what's Joranda?
19:27:32  <MeusH> OS?
19:27:38  <Zoney> Ce
19:27:49  <Zoney> its a hp hendheld pc
19:28:09  <MeusH> sorry, I searched for "Joranda" :/
19:28:22  <Zoney> ?
19:28:32  <MeusH> There was a PDA conversion for OpenTTD
19:28:39  <Zoney> ok
19:28:43  <MeusH> but it was around 0.4.0
19:28:45  <MeusH> or even before
19:28:50  <MeusH> so no nice features
19:28:56  <MeusH> its developement stopped
19:29:08  <Zoney> awww
19:31:18  <MeusH> Zoney, should do the trick but the wiki seems to be down
19:31:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8432 /branches/newhouses/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NewHouses] -Feature: Allow substitute house ids of 0xFF, which means you can disable original houses.
19:31:59  <Wolf01> bbl
19:32:02  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
19:41:15  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
19:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8433 /branches/newhouses/src/newgrf_house.cpp: [NewHouses] -Fix (r8432): If a GRF is removed, only replace new houses with their substitute ids.
19:47:03  *** MiHaMHoMe [] has joined #openttd
19:47:29  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:48:05  *** MiHaMHoMe is now known as MiHaMiX
19:48:44  *** mode/#openttd [+o MiHaMiX] by ChanServ
19:49:28  *** MiHaMiX changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC4 | Website: * (Translator: translator2 [DOWN], Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly [DOWN], WIKI: wiki [DOWN], SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs [DOWN], Bug-reports: bugs [DOWN])
19:50:13  <MiHaMiX> Administrative announce: Several OpenTTD services are down due to network failure
19:50:53  <Magus_X> what happened?
19:54:05  <MiHaMiX> firewall went down unexpectedly
19:57:23  <izhirahider> hmmm, svn is up, but interestingly the revision 8433 doesn't compile (gcc 4.1.1)
19:57:35  <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: In function 'void HandleAircraftLoading(Vehicle*, int)':
19:57:41  <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:1284: error: jump to case label
19:57:47  <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:1277: error:   crosses initialization of 'Order b'
19:57:50  <izhirahider> (...)
19:59:38  <Maedhros> so it doesn't
20:00:46  <Maedhros> i think it's missing some brackets around the whole case block
20:02:56  <peter1138> i guess tron's compiler doesn't complain about that
20:05:26  <caladan> hmm, recording demo with sensible fps rate is quite hard...
20:05:38  <caladan> too much data really
20:05:50  *** imaginner [] has joined #openttd
20:07:50  <imaginner> hello
20:08:44  <MeusH> hello imaginner
20:09:28  <MeusH> caladan, what data?
20:09:45  <MeusH> you don't save each mouse move... do you?
20:10:05  <caladan> no, saving video data
20:10:31  <caladan> for window 640x480 20fps it gives 6MB per second, if we have 8bit colour
20:10:35  <MeusH> did you give up coding demo support?
20:10:43  <caladan> im rethinking how to do it
20:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> caladan: don't compress in real time
20:10:57  <caladan> true, but how to make a raw dump
20:11:30  <caladan> if i could do a snapshot of each frame from sdl level and then compress..
20:12:55  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you could intercept all draw operations in sdl_v.c(pp)
20:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and store those into a file
20:14:36  <caladan> hmm, that's an idea...
20:14:42  <caladan> i try some x11 utils
20:14:43  <Maedhros> does OS X use SDL, or is it entirely replaced by cocoa?
20:15:07  <caladan> it doesnt really matter, such video may be made once
20:15:17  <caladan> under one OS, no need to make it really portable
20:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, you can just invoke the screenshot-routine on each tick
20:16:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in date.c or something
20:17:17  <caladan> with bmp it could work...
20:17:40  *** mikk36|lap [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18:50  *** mikk36|lap [] has joined #openttd
20:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> void IncreaseDate(void) <-- that appears to be a function run each tick
20:20:12  <caladan> Eddi|zuHause: thx will look into that
20:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the game has like 33 fps
20:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could do each 2nd tick or so
20:21:57  <Bjarni> <Maedhros>	does OS X use SDL, or is it entirely replaced by cocoa? <-- for some odd reason, SDL automatically disables cocoa when it's set to compile with support for both, so you have to pick one at compile time
20:22:10  <Bjarni> cocoa do work a whole lot better, so it's default and recommended
20:22:29  <Bjarni> for if you like, you can make an OSX binary, that relies on SDL instead
20:22:31  <peter1138> DOES
20:22:38  <Maedhros> ah, ok
20:23:37  <Zoney> mm..
20:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that appears like wasted effort to me ;)
20:24:43  <peter1138> Bjarni: i can't see any reason why enabling SDL should disable cocoa...
20:24:49  <Bjarni> does sounds too much like DOS to me :P
20:25:12  <peter1138> DOS sounds nothing like does
20:25:13  *** Zoney [] has quit []
20:25:35  <peter1138> DOS = doss, does = duz
20:27:00  <Bjarni> duz doesn't sound like the English I learned at school
20:27:05  <caladan> ok, it is about 30fps
20:27:10  <Bjarni> maybe that tells more about the teacher than me
20:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he means "das", but they speak their 'u' strangely ;)
20:27:44  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: bin wech....]
20:28:10  *** Sacro [Ben@] has joined #openttd
20:28:41  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	Bjarni: i can't see any reason why enabling SDL should disable cocoa... <-- same here. I never found the reason though, but I never spent much time on it anyway
20:28:52  <Maedhros> it doesn't sound anything like das, at least not with the way i would pronounce 'das' ;)
20:28:53  <Bjarni> just as long as cocoa just works, I figure that it's ok
20:29:41  <Bjarni> in Danish, "das" means an outhouse... on of those without water and just a barrel
20:30:29  <Bjarni> some funny guys said that das and dos are so closely related that it's not just at random
20:31:32  *** dfox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:38:41  *** sergey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:39:17  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:45:14  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has quit [Quit: Fui embora]
20:49:10  <imaginner> is the order of sections in openttd.cfg important?
20:49:29  <glx> no
20:49:44  <imaginner> thanks
20:53:05  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
20:59:28  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:08:26  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:18:14  *** voodoo070 [] has quit []
21:20:25  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
21:24:47  *** qkr [] has quit []
21:27:25  *** ceji [] has left #openttd []
21:27:35  <imaginner> hey, does the wiki work?
21:27:48  <imaginner> I can't connect to it :/
21:28:10  <caladan> ok, got a lot of images :D
21:28:26  <caladan> it almost doesnt slow game
21:29:01  <Maedhros> imaginner: see /topic :)
21:29:07  <imaginner> oops
21:29:32  <imaginner> :P didn't see that
21:29:49  <imaginner> thx Maedhros, anyway )
21:41:18  *** RichK67 [~RichK67@] has joined #openttd
21:53:53  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has joined #openttd
21:53:55  <Ailure> haha
21:53:58  <Ailure> invited my classmate to a game
21:54:05  <Ailure> it's cute as he only have played the orginal TT
21:54:19  <Ailure> so he plays the game TTO style
21:54:23  <Ailure> with one lane for every train :p
21:55:16  *** RichK67 [~RichK67@] has quit [Quit: RichK67]
21:58:34  <imaginner> heh )
21:59:06  <imaginner> I never actually played the original )
21:59:16  <imaginner> the Deluxe only
22:00:25  <Maedhros> TTO was fun
22:00:39  <Maedhros> it only had two way signals, and you couldn't build them on diagonal tracks
22:00:40  *** TSC [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:03:15  <MeusH> Maedhros, when playing TTO I didn't really knew about signals
22:03:33  <MeusH> I was doing what AI was doing :)
22:04:02  <Maedhros> hehe, yeah
22:04:26  <Maedhros> the ai i was playing against built quite a lot of two track stations, and passing loops though :)
22:06:19  *** TSC [] has joined #openttd
22:08:22  <caladan> ok, got hmm, some effects
22:08:32  <caladan> but problems with colors now... :/
22:11:15  *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:15:38  *** kovan [~k@] has joined #openttd
22:15:52  *** PandaMojo [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]]
22:16:06  <kovan> hi
22:16:12  <kovan> i have one problem with openttd
22:16:45  <peter1138> only one?
22:16:51  <peter1138> you're lucky :)
22:17:08  <glx> what is your problem?
22:17:10  <caladan> hmm, can mouse pointer be seen on screenshot?
22:17:29  <peter1138> no
22:17:31  <glx> caladan: no it's hidden before it
22:17:40  <peter1138> but only cos it's explicitly hidden
22:17:46  <kovan> once the light went off while i was playing
22:17:46  <kovan> and since then i cannot build some kinds of train machines in the game i was playing
22:18:56  <caladan> ok, gona change that for myself, thx
22:19:44  <kovan> it also happens to be the best machine available, the asiastar, so i can't build new trains :(
22:24:58  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
22:28:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8434 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r8430): Missing braces caused compilation failure for some (most?) compilers...
22:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause> kovan: ever tried to build electric rails?
22:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming you recently upgraded to 0.5)
22:33:47  <kovan> Eddi|zuHause: yep, with no luck
22:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to upgrade the depot to electric also
22:35:21  <caladan> i still get wrong colorus
22:35:26  <caladan> did wnyone use transcode?
22:36:28  <kovan> i know
22:36:47  <kovan> i only can build the SH 40
22:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i need more nickname colours... i get totally confused as soon as 2 people get assigned the same colour
22:36:52  <kovan> an i'm in 2050
22:37:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so, the engines are too old and you should switch to maglev? i haven't played with the default engines in ages
22:39:32  <kovan> but i have another game where i can always build the asiastar
22:39:43  <kovan> which is the fastest electrical train machine
22:40:04  <kovan> i can build it even in 2090
22:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if there was anything changed there...
22:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in the worst case, go to the patches screen, select that vehicles do not expire, go to the console, and type resetengines
22:43:09  <kovan> Eddi|zuHause: now yes!
22:43:12  <kovan> thanks
22:43:21  <kovan> awesome game btw
22:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> of course ;)
22:45:26  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:45:36  *** nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:52:54  <Smoovious> do enhanced cargo types work in OTTD?
22:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> no
22:54:37  <Smoovious> k
22:54:51  *** Digitalfox_ [] has joined #openttd
22:55:13  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:56:51  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
22:57:00  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:05:18  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07:53  *** Tino|Home [] has joined #openttd
23:09:40  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
23:13:53  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:15:04  <Maedhros> good night
23:15:26  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: good night]
23:19:48  <Darkvater> blathijs: << you didn't compile the debs with freetype? Or is it static freetype?
23:22:28  *** raimar2 [] has joined #openttd
23:22:42  <caladan> kk, toolchain to generate demos almost ready :D
23:28:05  *** MiHaMiX [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]]
23:29:10  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
23:29:35  *** raimar3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:32:19  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-169.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:32:24  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-169.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
23:35:30  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:35:36  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
23:36:54  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit []
23:36:59  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
23:40:45  <KeeperOfTheSoul> is there any way to get more than the stardard 3 levels of zoom?
23:41:02  <Darkvater> yes, use binoculars
23:42:13  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:42:27  <XeryusTC> KeeperOfTheSoul: ctrl+d
23:42:32  <XeryusTC> makes 4 in windows :P
23:43:08  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:43:08  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:43:09  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
23:43:22  *** Sacro [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
23:43:25  <KeeperOfTheSoul> ah, that'll do, its just that some of the text has gotten quite small at 1920x1200
23:44:06  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50:26  *** voodoo070 [] has joined #openttd
23:56:30  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
23:56:40  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
23:57:31  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:57:43  <Sacro> hmmm, how about an Integrated "Stable"
23:57:59  <Sacro> user patched 0.5.0

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk