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00:02:41 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-129-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:08:44 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-155-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:51 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 00:11:09 <Maedhros> good night 00:11:22 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-39-206.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:14:13 *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36 00:14:44 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:17 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 00:20:56 *** blindwaves [~woogleman@cm173.sigma118.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 00:23:04 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@h156060.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 00:27:24 <Darkvater> gn 00:28:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F4B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:35 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h209172.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:35 *** 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ThePizzaKing_ is now known as ThePizzaKing 08:02:29 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h156060.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:16 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:31:21 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B84771.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 08:32:13 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B84771.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:46:17 *** Maedhros [~jc@smtp.gentoo.org] has joined #openttd 09:11:21 <waxman> Good Morning 09:15:10 <peter1138> hmm 09:15:22 <peter1138> why does the 0.5.0-RC4 installer say it is for 0.5.0.0 ? 09:20:34 <peter1138> oh, RC4 doesn't work on '98 either? 09:20:39 <peter1138> pom te pom 09:21:55 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:24:11 *** Wolfensteijn [~wolf@ip52-73-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 09:24:52 * peter1138 pokes Darkvater 09:25:11 <Zaviori> In ze eye! 09:26:17 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 09:30:22 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:42:28 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-956370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:47:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D06E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:48:32 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:50:47 *** thunder1 [~thu@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:55:51 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host97-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:56:29 <Wolf01> morning 09:56:36 <peter1138> hi 09:59:34 <peter1138> what's the trick for RC4 on win98 then? :( 09:59:40 * peter1138 's missing out 10:00:57 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x573558c0.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:02:53 <Wolf01> maybe install the rc4 and then unpack the (about) equivalent nightly over it 10:03:20 *** VanilleBert [~gilbert@p213.54.144.54.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #openttd 10:03:30 <peter1138> um 10:03:36 <peter1138> i'm trying to use rc4... 10:08:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8426 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: 10:08:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 10:08:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Slightly simplify the code which determines whether to build a rail or a road bridge 10:08:17 <Wolf01> it crashes or what? 10:09:22 <peter1138> the old can 10:09:24 <peter1138> err 10:09:28 <Tefad> what the 10:09:40 <peter1138> the old can't find lang pack, and 'corrupt' grfs... 10:26:29 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:27:33 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:00 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:30:04 <Wolf01> mmmh i found nothing on the forum 10:32:30 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@f210176.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:40:02 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3F356.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 10:40:13 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3F356.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:34 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x53589005.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:48:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 10:50:01 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74-140-44-235.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 10:50:23 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74-140-44-235.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #openttd 10:58:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8427 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt: 10:58:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 10:58:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: s/m?/m?5?0?4?9/ 10:58:56 <peter1138> uh 10:58:59 <hylje> :o 10:59:32 <Tron> hm, interesting 10:59:45 <Tron> s/m?/m³/ 11:03:03 * peter1138 pokes Darkvater some more 11:03:47 <peter1138> maybe a magic reboot will help 11:06:42 <peter1138> heh 11:06:55 <peter1138> this wireless card is a "802.11g Wireless Cardbus Adatper" 11:07:12 <peter1138> made by "Technology Corportation" 11:07:29 <hylje> :o 11:07:58 <Bjarni> that's a really well known company 11:08:04 <Bjarni> almost as known as "generic" :P 11:08:29 <peter1138> yeah, the software was put in C:\Program Files\NOBRAND\... 11:09:23 *** Belugas [belugas@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 11:09:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 11:11:53 *** wolfy [~wolf@ip52-73-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 11:11:53 *** Wolfensteijn [~wolf@ip52-73-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:00 <peter1138> ah well, it works at least... 11:13:07 <hylje> this far :p 11:14:53 <peter1138> *nod* 11:19:07 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-151-60.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:19:20 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-151-60.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 11:22:08 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC7AB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:25:26 <Darkvater> morning 11:25:39 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:25:48 <Darkvater> peter1138, Tron: poke 11:25:58 <peter1138> hello 11:25:59 <Tron> counter-poke! 11:26:06 <peter1138> how do i get rc4 working on '98? 11:26:36 <Darkvater> download RC3, extract dbghelp.dll from it and overwrite RC4's dbghelp.dll 11:26:51 <peter1138> did that 11:27:01 <Darkvater> do you have unicows/ 11:27:38 <peter1138> um 11:27:43 <Darkvater> I take that as a no 11:28:08 <peter1138> no idea 11:28:40 <Wolf01> unicows.dll, wasn't that for the resolution change, was it? 11:28:51 <Darkvater> peter1138: put unicows.dll in the openttd dir 11:28:51 <peter1138> i'm used to libraries not being available causing the program not to run at all 11:29:13 <Darkvater> http://www.microsoft.com.nsatc.net/globaldev/handson/dev/mslu_announce.mspx 11:30:01 <peter1138> yeah, that works 11:30:03 <Wolf01> that dll seem like an aspirin for win98, is required for about all the new software.. now i understand why i have no problems with my win98 :D 11:30:27 <peter1138> i'd expect something like 'can't find unicows.dll' 11:30:51 <Tron> "MEIN LEBEN!" 11:30:51 <stillunknown> maybe it's just assuming unicode support? 11:30:53 *** imaginner [~imaginner@acls144.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong] 11:32:21 <Darkvater> peter1138: unicows is tricky; it's only loaded when windows can't find the given wide-function in its own dll's 11:32:32 <Darkvater> I'll update the installer though to say something about this 11:32:39 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:42 <peter1138> hmm 11:32:51 <peter1138> i don't understand 11:32:52 *** Magus_X [t7DS@201-14-215-99.pltce7005.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 11:33:10 <peter1138> if it can't find the functions, how does it run without the dll? 11:33:45 <Darkvater> no idea, I think it just uses some stub 11:33:50 <Darkvater> but clearly it doesn't run :) 11:33:54 <peter1138> it does 11:34:15 <Darkvater> it doesn't cause it says 'missing sample.cat' etc 11:34:24 <peter1138> yes 11:34:35 <peter1138> not "missing function foo" 11:36:05 <Darkvater> The second part is a library (LIB) file--Unicows.lib--that is compiled with this same application. This LIB contains the MSLU loader, which determines whether to load the DLL and call it; alternatively, it can call the original operating-system version of the API. (The former scenario would occur on Windows 95/98/Me; the latter would occur on Windows NT/2000/XP.) The loader also contains all of the necessary failure stubs like the operating system itsel 11:36:12 <Darkvater> there :) 11:37:11 *** VanilleBert [~gilbert@p213.54.144.54.tisdip.tiscali.de] has left #openttd [] 11:37:51 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 11:39:01 <peter1138> oh dear, i crashed it 11:39:07 <peter1138> switching from full to window 11:39:13 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [] 11:39:35 <Darkvater> peter1138: yes, handling a missing unicows.dll more gracefully would be better; but... 11:39:44 <Darkvater> peter1138: what version of the dll do you have? The just downloaded one? 11:39:59 <peter1138> no idea, i downloaded it from some crappy site 11:40:26 <Darkvater> ? 11:40:29 <Darkvater> download it from MS 11:40:31 * peter1138 ponders win2king 11:40:38 <Darkvater> you need that version; if you have the old version it crashes 11:40:43 <Darkvater> bug in unicoWS 11:41:25 <KUDr> we should include unicows in the package 11:41:26 <stillunknown> peter1138: you always live on the dark side? 11:41:41 <Darkvater> KUDr: we discussed yesterday, and it's not possible 11:41:50 <KUDr> must be possible 11:42:21 <KUDr> M$ allows it and GPL would be against itself if it prohibits it 11:42:28 <Darkvater> ask Brianetta 11:42:33 <KUDr> and i can't belive that 11:43:00 <KUDr> I didn't understand his explanation 11:43:34 <KUDr> M$ allows it for sure 11:43:44 <Darkvater> he said any bundled file must have the source available or on a site linked to it 11:43:46 <KUDr> and GLP << well we can ask them 11:43:47 <Darkvater> or something like that 11:44:02 <KUDr> yes, if it is your file 11:44:04 <Darkvater> peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=546491#546491 11:45:05 <peter1138> god damn this laptop is slow 11:45:15 <peter1138> takes a good few seconds to start openttd :P 11:45:25 <KUDr> you can't hide sources, but if you use 3rd party library with permision from 3rd party... 11:46:02 <Darkvater> which has to have the source available 11:46:04 <Darkvater> which they don't 11:46:08 <KUDr> no 11:46:32 <KUDr> 3rd party can give you permission for using their non-GPL library 11:47:06 <KUDr> they don't need to open their sources only because we want to use it :) 11:47:33 <Darkvater> I don't think unicows has been explicitly allowed to be bundled to use with gpl 11:47:54 <Darkvater> otherwise there woudln't exist opencow or the mozilla project's unicows 11:49:10 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176126226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:50:51 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 11:50:58 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/air_subtypes.diff 11:51:00 <Darkvater> objections? 11:51:29 * voodoo070 looks for a gavel 11:52:42 <Bjarni> Darkvater: reading 11:52:48 <Tron> + /* return (v->subtype == AIR_HELICOPTER) || (v->subtype == AIR_AIRCRAFT); */ 11:52:48 <Tron> + return v->subtype <= AIR_AIRCRAFT; 11:52:52 <Tron> this deserves a comment 11:53:21 <Tron> - Engine *e; 11:53:21 <Tron> + const Engine *e; 11:53:22 <Tron> scope 11:53:31 <Tron> (or don't touch it at all) 11:53:47 <Tron> + Vehicle *v, *u; 11:53:48 <Tron> scope 11:53:50 <Darkvater> Bjarni: hang on (for your diff) 11:54:16 <Bjarni> isn't aircraft subtype 1 a flag for the needed length of runways? 11:54:33 <Bjarni> if it's set, then it needs the long runways or something like that 11:54:35 <Darkvater> no 11:54:46 <Darkvater> that's stored in engine 11:55:37 <Tron> + v->u.air.state = (v->subtype == AIR_AIRCRAFT) ? TAKEOFF : HELITAKEOFF; 11:55:47 <Tron> == AIR_HELICOPTER ? flip 11:56:07 <Darkvater> no 11:56:09 <Bjarni> I always thought that aircraft subtypes were bitmasks of some kind 11:56:13 <Darkvater> it was != AIR_HELICOPTER 11:56:34 <Tron> i know 11:56:37 <Darkvater> it's more logical to not use negation 11:56:46 <Tron> i didn't say to use negation 11:56:52 <Bjarni> but wouldn't it make more sense to make it use AIR_HELICOPTER when it handles HELITAKEOFF? 11:57:10 <Bjarni> if heli, then HELITAKEOFF else normal takeoff 11:57:33 <Darkvater> that's what it does 11:57:45 <Bjarni> no 11:57:53 <Bjarni> it says if aircraft, then normal, else heli 11:58:02 <Darkvater> Tron: well you could flip the AIR_ part of the TAKEOFF part, I flipped the first 11:58:16 <Tron> that's what i meant 11:58:19 <Darkvater> Bjarni: and tell me; what is the difference? 11:58:20 <Tron> 0 is just a nicer constant 11:58:39 <Darkvater> Tron: like that... one could do that 11:59:01 <Bjarni> if we decide to add a new subtype, then we would need to change this. If he make it work on helicopters instead, the risk of having to change this line later is not as big 11:59:01 <Tron> (also in some places the test is with HELI, so it is more consistent to do it the same way everywhere) 11:59:57 <Darkvater> Bjarni: a new subtype could need a new takeoff type as well, so I'm not worried about that 12:00:47 <Tron> unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar() 12:01:04 <Darkvater> Tron: with *v, *u scope you mean put it in front of the v = vl[1] ? 12:01:46 <Tron> yes 12:02:23 <Darkvater> hmm, so are we now declaring variables mid-block or at the start of the smallest-scope-lbock? 12:02:48 <Tron> declare them where they are initialised if possible 12:04:40 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@f210176.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:04:40 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@f210176.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:41 <Bjarni> <Tron> unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar() <-- there is a minor difference. IsAircraftInHangar() would accept shadows as well, but checking for IsAircraftInHangar() and subtype would be the correct way to do this check 12:04:45 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 12:05:13 <Bjarni> oh and ensure that v->tile == tile 12:05:21 <Bjarni> to ensure that it's the right hangar 12:05:35 <Bjarni> I say that I should clean this up after DV commits this 12:05:55 <KUDr> hmm, Darkvater: how would you understand this?: 12:05:55 <KUDr> I would like to bundle GPLed software with some sort of installation software. Does that installer need to have a GPL-compatible license? 12:05:55 <KUDr> No. The installer and the files it installs are separate works. As a result, the terms of the GPL do not apply to the installation software. 12:06:02 <Bjarni> as it's a cleanup that's not closely related to this patch 12:06:32 <peter1138> KUDr: unicows.dll would be a file it installs 12:06:43 <peter1138> not the installer 12:06:46 <KUDr> so GPL 12:06:52 <KUDr> ok, will search further 12:06:56 <Tron> Bjarni: wtf are you talking about? 12:07:12 <Bjarni> <Tron> unrelated: vehicle.cpp:2337, smells like IsAircraftInHangar() 12:07:16 <Magus_X> you can't put it and give a warning to the user that the license of it is diferent? 12:07:33 <stillunknown> KUDr: 12:07:35 <stillunknown> The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally dis 12:07:35 <stillunknown> tributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable. 12:07:47 <Bjarni> I just looked into this and you are right. It should be cleaned up, but the if checks more than just IsAircraftInHangar() 12:08:05 <Maedhros> Magus_X: no, because you can't distribute them in the same bundle at all 12:08:12 <Bjarni> also I think it does the same check somewhere else 12:08:15 <Magus_X> ah :/ 12:09:04 <KUDr> stillunknown: nothing new 12:11:00 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-148.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:12:49 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-148.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:13:37 *** ceji [~ceji@252-59.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 12:21:17 *** Nigel_ [~nigel@202-154-151-60.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 12:23:06 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-151-60.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:29 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-956370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8428 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add proper names to aircraft subtypes instead of magic numbers and add a function IsNormalAircraft() which tells us whether the aircraft is in fact some flying device or a rotor/shadow. 12:31:17 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-956370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 12:33:22 *** DirtYiCE [~dirty_ice@84.236.50.38] has joined #openttd 12:34:15 <roboman> gnight 12:34:34 <hylje> "flying device" 12:45:18 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8429 /trunk/src/ (engine.h newgrf.cpp table/engines.h vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: Add a name for AircraftVehicleInfo subtype helicopter and remove some magic numbers related to the subtype. 12:52:51 <Darkvater> bbl 12:54:19 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 12:56:24 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489FC8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:28 <valhallasw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXXFZCsuQPk <-- zomg. 12:59:59 <Magus_X> lol 13:00:17 <valhallasw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBlvB7Ye418 seems to be even longer :o 13:00:35 <valhallasw> at least in minutes *grin* 13:00:38 <Magus_X> i did some videos 13:00:39 <Magus_X> :P 13:01:18 <valhallasw> :D 13:01:25 <Magus_X> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZDKJG64mJs 13:01:28 <Magus_X> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3p6MuXp9I 13:01:31 <Magus_X> i'm IL-2 addict 13:01:49 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489C81C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:53 <valhallasw> :D 13:02:09 <Magus_X> ah, and this one 13:02:12 <valhallasw> nice fraps quality 13:02:19 <Magus_X> :P 13:02:38 <Magus_X> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GMg303kebs 13:03:21 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@74-140-44-235.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #openttd 13:07:49 *** DaleStan [~Dale@74-140-44-235.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:07:49 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 13:08:33 <Magus_X> i'm not good at camera angles :~~ 13:15:17 *** picitlama [~tudor@tomka.hu] has left #openttd [] 13:16:38 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-232-76.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:04 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c56041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:33:03 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:26 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@f210176.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:33:26 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 13:38:17 <KUDr> Darkvater: i probably have it: 13:38:18 <KUDr> 9. License Must Not Restrict Other Software 13:38:18 <KUDr> The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software. 13:38:18 <KUDr> Rationale: Distributors of open-source software have the right to make their own choices about their own software. 13:38:18 <KUDr> Yes, the GPL is conformant with this requirement. Software linked with GPLed libraries only inherits the GPL if it forms a single work, not any software with which they are merely distributed. 13:38:21 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83E70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:38:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:38:36 <KUDr> Darkvater: http://opensource.org/docs/definition.php ^^ 13:40:41 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B84771.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:46 <KUDr> so the unicows.dll does not need to be open source in order to be distributed together with ottd. It is separate program distributed/linked along/together with ottd. 13:44:25 *** ceji [~ceji@252-59.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #openttd [] 13:44:42 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c56041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:44:42 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c56041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:45 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 13:47:32 <stillunknown> KUDr: there is a difference between open source and free software 13:48:22 <stillunknown> many licenses probably allow what you want, but not the gpl as far as i know 13:48:42 <valhallasw> the gpl limits the use of gpl'ed libraries in non-gpl programs 13:48:45 <valhallasw> not the reverse 13:50:15 <stillunknown> I don't think so, but if you have a specific piece of the license in mind, please tell me :-) 13:53:06 *** pecisk [~pecisk@91.123.69.54] has joined #openttd 13:53:06 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:10 <stillunknown> valhallasw: read section 3 of the license 13:53:52 <Magus_X> ah, licenses give me a headache 13:54:09 <valhallasw> "For an executable work, complete source 13:54:12 <valhallasw> code means all the source code for all modules it contains" <-- hmm. 13:54:56 <valhallasw> I sincerely hate the GPL 13:55:26 <stillunknown> That's your choice. 13:55:34 <Magus_X> but it is the most suitable for this project, :P 13:55:40 <Magus_X> or you want to make it CC? LOL 13:56:44 <stillunknown> For anything that isn't a library, the gpl is pretty nice, as it prevents companies to reuse the code and not give back what they change. 13:57:15 <Noldo> reuse in something they want to distribute 13:57:26 <stillunknown> true 13:58:15 <stillunknown> BSD license or LGPL is preferable for libraries, as the gpl would limit it's uses. 13:58:34 <Noldo> well, all depends on what you want 13:59:25 <stillunknown> I do know of a library which is gpl, specifically to allow free software to use it and let others buy it. 13:59:50 <PandaMojo> Qt does that, doesn't it? 13:59:56 <Maedhros> yup. so does mysql 13:59:58 <Tron> peter1138? 14:00:18 <stillunknown> Qt is gpl'ed starting version 4 i think. 14:00:24 <Tron> newgrf_engine.cpp:697 - is this used in any sensible way? 14:00:31 <Magus_X> Qt? 14:00:39 <PandaMojo> Magus_X: GUI Widget library 14:00:44 <stillunknown> I was referring to libsamplerate, aka the Secret Rabbit Code 14:00:46 <Magus_X> ah 14:02:37 <PandaMojo> Personally I prefer more permissive licenses for my code if I'm not trying to ransom it or anything :-). 14:04:00 <stillunknown> I'm glad the gpl exists. 14:19:41 <valhallasw> imo the gpl is way too restrictive for people to use 14:20:05 <valhallasw> and I agree the MIT licence would not be the best choice for ottd 14:20:25 <valhallasw> but a simple sharealike licence would do the job fine.. imo 14:20:46 <Magus_X> CC ? 14:21:03 <Magus_X> ah, forget, CC is not sharealike only 14:21:28 <valhallasw> some CC licences have SA, yes 14:21:36 <valhallasw> but CC is for content, not for code 14:21:57 <Magus_X> :/ 14:22:06 <valhallasw> iirc 14:22:37 *** wolfy [~wolf@ip52-73-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: I'm gone, bye bye :)] 14:23:07 <KUDr> stillunknown: "Yes, the GPL is conformant with this requirement." << this is clear statement (at least to me) 14:24:20 <KUDr> and if i distribute the 3rd party software together with my GPL software on the same medium, can't restrict each other 14:24:22 <valhallasw> KUDr: section 3 clearly states "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains" 14:24:39 <valhallasw> correct, but it's a library the software needs 14:24:48 <KUDr> unicows.dll is not contained in ottd 14:24:55 <KUDr> it is separate work 14:24:59 <KUDr> independent 14:25:06 <valhallasw> it is used as a library in ottd 14:25:07 <valhallasw> ==module 14:25:09 <KUDr> and made as supplement for os 14:25:11 <KUDr> no 14:25:39 <valhallasw> it is not used as a library? 14:25:41 <KUDr> software module is module of my GPL software in definition of terms 14:25:44 <valhallasw> then why is it distributed 14:26:06 <KUDr> this is separated software 14:26:18 <KUDr> which is made by another party 14:26:23 <valhallasw> what defenition of terms 14:26:25 <KUDr> under another licence 14:26:26 <KUDr> etc. 14:26:29 <valhallasw> the one that is not in the licence? 14:26:54 <valhallasw> the word 'module' is only used once in the entire gpl 14:27:03 <valhallasw> in the sentence I just copied 14:27:14 <KUDr> valhallasw: but software is defined 14:27:40 <KUDr> and this module is module of this software 14:27:40 <peter1138> gpl sucks, basically 14:27:47 <KUDr> it does 14:27:52 <valhallasw> gpl is like capitalism 14:28:01 <valhallasw> it sucks, but it's the best there is at the moment ;) 14:28:06 <KUDr> but it doesn't mean you can't install 2 programs together 14:28:18 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:28:24 <valhallasw> KUDr: the point is not that the programs are installed together 14:28:33 <KUDr> and? 14:28:34 <valhallasw> the point is a non-GPL'ed lib is used in the program 14:28:43 <KUDr> no 14:28:47 <KUDr> not lib 14:28:54 <KUDr> software 14:28:55 <valhallasw> ? 14:29:04 <KUDr> that is linked with my software 14:29:07 <valhallasw> unicows.dll is not a library? 14:29:32 <KUDr> if i will name it separate software, then it is software 14:29:52 <KUDr> it depends what you tell in your readme 14:29:57 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:29:58 <KUDr> not what it is technically 14:30:04 <peter1138> software is software 14:30:06 <valhallasw> yes, but unicows.dll IS USED as a LIBRARY in openttd 14:30:16 <KUDr> doesn't matter 14:30:19 <valhallasw> it does. 14:30:28 <KUDr> it is used as software that is linked together 14:30:34 <valhallasw> yes 14:30:40 <valhallasw> and hence it is a module 14:30:44 <KUDr> yes, so read what i pasted there 14:30:44 <Noldo> it doesn't matter in the sense that it doesn't make openttd non-gpl 14:30:48 <KUDr> period 14:31:05 <valhallasw> I read it. 14:31:11 <valhallasw> It is not the same case. 14:31:29 <KUDr> it applies perfectly 14:31:30 <valhallasw> the thing you pasted is about putting firefox on a windows cd 14:31:35 <Noldo> it does mater in the sense that it makes openttd a bit less free because it depends on another non-free component 14:31:48 <valhallasw> except firefox is not GPL, but you get the point 14:32:01 <KUDr> Noldo: "non-free component"? 14:32:07 <KUDr> which one you mean? 14:32:17 <KUDr> unicows if free 14:32:37 <Noldo> which license? 14:32:49 <KUDr> "which license"? 14:32:53 <glx> EULA 14:33:06 <valhallasw> It's not open source. It is free as in it costs 0$ to use 14:33:16 <Noldo> KUDr: under which license is it going to be distributed 14:33:19 <glx> it is redistributable IIRC 14:33:27 <KUDr> Noldo: ottd 14:33:39 <Noldo> ottd has it's own licence? 14:33:43 <KUDr> yes, redistributable by call makers 14:33:48 <KUDr> and we are call makers 14:33:48 <hylje> OPL! 14:34:16 <glx> like directx runtime 14:34:18 <Noldo> last time I checked that's not free 14:34:35 <KUDr> Noldo: what is not free? 14:34:39 <Maedhros> actually, it might be ok - http://rafb.net/p/xwP2ZO78.html 14:35:00 <Noldo> limiting who can distribute it or with what 14:35:04 <Maedhros> it could be argued that unicows is normally distributed with the major components of the os 14:35:24 <valhallasw> Maedhros: yes, but then there is no need to distribute it 14:35:26 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:30 <Noldo> and of cource there is the matter of sources too which is en obstacle too 14:35:45 <valhallasw> we want to distribute it because people do not have it -> not a standard part of the OS 14:36:09 <KUDr> "matter of sources"? 14:36:11 <glx> anyway it's easily available on MS site 14:36:16 <KUDr> what you till have? 14:36:28 <KUDr> it is different softwasre 14:37:07 <valhallasw> KUDr: MODULES need to be open source. unicows.dll is a module of ottd. unicows.dll is not gpl'ed. period/ 14:37:20 <KUDr> "easily available" << the easiest way would be if we install it 14:38:21 <KUDr> valhallasw: modules of GPLed SW, unicows is not GPLed and is _NOT_part of any GPLed software 14:38:39 <valhallasw> It is if you use in in ottd. 14:38:45 <KUDr> so you apply the restriction to something what is outside that 14:38:51 <KUDr> no 14:39:15 <valhallasw> of course it is. 14:39:22 <valhallasw> ottd cannot run without linking to it 14:39:27 <glx> unicows.dll is a module of win9x/me 14:39:44 <KUDr> nvidia driver is also not part of OTTD or other SW even you distribute it with it 14:39:50 <glx> ottd can run on all nt without unicows.dll 14:40:14 <valhallasw> KUDr: no, but ottd does not use or need the nvidia driver 14:40:22 <valhallasw> glx: then why do we need to distribute it? 14:40:31 <KUDr> valhallasw: "linking to it" << yes, exactly, so it stays outside of it, it only links together during runtime 14:40:33 <glx> to simplify user's life 14:40:38 <Maedhros> valhallasw: because it isn't part of win9x 14:40:41 <KUDr> as any other part of OS 14:41:07 <KUDr> valhallasw: it is freely redistributable OS suplement 14:41:21 <valhallasw> freely redistributable != free software 14:41:22 <KUDr> not part or module of ottd 14:41:41 <valhallasw> the philosophy of the gpl is that all gpl'ed software should be able to be created from other free software 14:42:02 <Noldo> valhallasw: linux version will answer that 14:42:05 <KUDr> "freely redistributable" means in this case that M$ is OK if we add it into OTTD installer 14:42:13 <valhallasw> Noldo? 14:42:58 <KUDr> valhallasw: ottd was not created from/based on unicows 14:43:13 * Maedhros suspects it would be easier to write to the FSF and get a definitive answer 14:43:48 <KUDr> Maedhros: maybe 14:44:21 <Noldo> there is nothing that stops you from distributing any non-free file with a gpl'd software 14:44:31 <KUDr> but taking 3rd party SW under GPL regulations is nonsense << GPL is not that viral 14:44:46 <KUDr> Noldo: yes 14:44:50 <KUDr> exactly 14:45:08 <valhallasw> you are completely missing the point 14:45:17 <KUDr> valhallasw: you are 14:45:31 <Noldo> about the philosophy that valhallasw mentioned, making a windows version is already against it 14:45:42 <KUDr> GPL regulated the software and its derivatives 14:45:50 <KUDr> not other software 14:46:22 <valhallasw> KUDr: the point is it regulates openttd and is so, that ottd cannot use non-free third-party modules, except if they are part of the OS 14:46:26 <KUDr> so if unicows is not GPLed, it cannot be covered by GPL 14:46:54 <valhallasw> correct 14:46:56 <KUDr> "cannot use non-free third-party modules" << not true 14:47:08 <KUDr> with written permission you can 14:47:27 <KUDr> and this one is free 14:47:28 <valhallasw> 15:24 < valhallasw> KUDr: section 3 clearly states "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains" 14:47:41 <valhallasw> the point is not MS limiting the use.. geez 14:47:53 <KUDr> "executable work" == ottd 14:48:03 <KUDr> ottd != unicows 14:48:04 * peter1138 yawns 14:48:35 <valhallasw> correct 14:48:54 <KUDr> so "executable work" is regulated by GPL 14:49:02 <valhallasw> For <ottd>, complete source code means all the source code for all modules <unicows=dynamically linked module> it contains 14:49:02 <KUDr> but unicows not 14:49:06 <valhallasw> yes 14:49:13 <KUDr> it stays outside "executable work" 14:49:24 <valhallasw> and "executable work" is limited by the GPL in using certain modules 14:49:33 <KUDr> so it doesn't need to met GPL requirements 14:49:35 <glx> unicows is a part on win9X/ME os, but this part is an addon 14:49:45 <Noldo> valhallasw: is there somewhere an exception about os stuff then? 14:49:50 <valhallasw> Noldo: yes 14:50:09 <valhallasw> as "executable work" is required by GPL to publish the source code of all "modules" 14:50:13 <Maedhros> according to http://libunicows.sourceforge.net/, we cannot distribute unicows.dll with openttd 14:50:33 <valhallasw> and we are not licenced to distribute the source code of unicows.dll 14:50:49 <valhallasw> ergo we cannot publish an openttd version that needs unicows.dll 14:50:54 <Noldo> so dynamically linked modules that belong to os are ok, but ones that aren't are? 14:51:02 <Noldo> and how is the difference defined? 14:51:26 <valhallasw> However, as a 14:51:26 <valhallasw> special exception, the source code distributed need not include 14:51:26 <valhallasw> anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary 14:51:26 <valhallasw> form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the 14:51:26 <valhallasw> operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 14:51:26 <Magus_X> even if you ask permission? 14:51:28 <valhallasw> itself accompanies the executable. 14:51:29 <Magus_X> even if you ask permission? 14:51:32 <KUDr> valhallasw: there is nowhere statement that would prohibit using of 3rd party SW, and also there is nothing about what can or can not be installed together with GPLed software, so clearly if we can call/link it, we can also redistribute it on the same medium 14:51:46 <valhallasw> KUDr: WE CANNOT CALL OR LINK IT 14:51:57 <valhallasw> that's the problem 14:52:02 <valhallasw> not wether we can distribute it or not 14:52:15 <valhallasw> we can call the version that is distributed in the OS 14:52:19 <valhallasw> but not any other version 14:52:19 <KUDr> valhallasw: ok, then it is another problem 14:52:21 <Magus_X> you can't ask permission? 14:52:32 <KUDr> we call/link it 14:52:32 <Magus_X> and place Unicows© blablabla? 14:52:42 <valhallasw> Magus_X: we could ask MS to publish the source code, yes 14:52:47 <Magus_X> ah 14:52:48 <KUDr> so we will break nothing if we will also distribute it 14:52:51 <Magus_X> Unicows is from M$? 14:53:04 <valhallasw> not 100% sure 14:53:05 <Magus_X> :~~ 14:53:36 <valhallasw> *secondly*, if we use the standard-OS unicows.dll, we may use it, but we *cannot* distribute it 14:53:42 <valhallasw> ("unless that component 14:53:44 <valhallasw> itself accompanies the executable.") 14:53:55 <KUDr> valhallasw: it is total nonsense: "<valhallasw> KUDr: WE CANNOT CALL OR LINK IT" 14:53:56 <Magus_X> hey 14:54:05 <Magus_X> unicows dll is available on windows? 14:54:15 <Noldo> Magus_X: on some but no all 14:54:25 <KUDr> Magus_X: it is not needed on NT or later 14:54:27 <Magus_X> because if it is, you cant just link it? 14:54:33 <KUDr> only on 9x it is needed 14:54:45 <KUDr> but supplied as addon 14:54:59 <Magus_X> :( 14:55:10 <KUDr> Magus_X: you can link it 14:55:13 <valhallasw> which means we can have a NT version with unicows.dll support 14:55:15 <KUDr> if it is there 14:55:17 <valhallasw> but not a 9x-version 14:55:35 <Magus_X> what unicows.dll does? 14:55:37 <KUDr> "NT version with unicows.dll support"? 14:55:40 <KUDr> he? 14:55:42 <Magus_X> i mean, it is for audio? video? 14:55:45 <KUDr> wtf? 14:55:53 <valhallasw> KUDr: we can use libraries that are standard in the OS 14:56:00 <valhallasw> unicows.dll is standard in NT, but not in 9x 14:56:01 <peter1138> NT doesn't need it 14:56:04 <valhallasw> ah. 14:56:07 <KUDr> Magus_X: unified cattle 14:56:13 <KUDr> or unicode 14:56:13 <glx> unicows.dll is a wrapper around ansi API to provide unicide support for win9X/ME 14:56:18 <valhallasw> achso 14:56:18 <Magus_X> ah 14:56:33 <valhallasw> then we cannot use it at all 14:56:38 <KUDr> valhallasw: it is not needed on NT 14:56:50 <KUDr> what is not clear on this fact? 14:56:50 <valhallasw> nm that comment about the NT version then 14:57:05 <Magus_X> [[KUDr]]: the fact of we can't distribute it 14:57:08 <valhallasw> I misread 14:57:25 <KUDr> the same with GPL 14:57:25 <Magus_X> *the fact is that* 14:57:48 <Magus_X> GPL is good ( until you need support of another thing that isn't gpl ) 14:58:05 <valhallasw> the fact is GPL is evil, but it is the best of all evils 14:58:33 <Magus_X> and what about LGPL? 14:59:24 <valhallasw> LGPL only changes the rules about the "software" being used in non-GPL software 14:59:27 <valhallasw> iirc 14:59:29 <KUDr> it would behard to explain thet OTTD is library :) 15:00:20 <valhallasw> the LGPL can be used for non-library software ;) 15:00:53 <KUDr> ottd is GPL software and as any other GPL SW it can cooperate/use any non-GPL software 15:01:17 <valhallasw> then read the GPL until you understand the last paragraph of section 3 15:01:45 <KUDr> there are no restrictions on it as long as this non-GPL SW is not part of OTTD 15:01:46 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c56041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:03 <Noldo> KUDr: what is ment by 'part' 15:02:03 <KUDr> and unicows is not part/module of OTTD 15:02:29 <valhallasw> if you use the library, of course it is a module 15:03:05 <Noldo> is the linkage to unicows dynamic or static? 15:03:17 <KUDr> valhallasw: technically yes, but then any video driver which is linked with it is also part of it 15:03:24 <valhallasw> yes. 15:03:33 <KUDr> and ATI and nvidia drivers are also not GPL 15:03:46 <KUDr> so where is the problem? 15:03:46 <valhallasw> ATI drivers are not exactly linked to ottd 15:03:54 <KUDr> in your understanding 15:04:00 <KUDr> they are 15:04:03 <valhallasw> why? 15:04:12 <KUDr> they have also user-mode parts 15:04:15 <KUDr> as DLLs 15:04:18 <valhallasw> yes 15:04:33 <valhallasw> but ottd does nor statically nor dynamically link to those DLL's 15:04:43 <KUDr> so problem is only in your interpretation 15:04:52 <KUDr> yes, we do 15:04:52 <valhallasw> 16:04 < valhallasw> but ottd does nor statically nor dynamically link to those DLL's 15:04:57 <valhallasw> do I need to repeat myself? 15:05:13 <peter1138> we link to directx :D 15:05:17 <KUDr> you don't need to repeat it as it is invalid 15:05:24 <valhallasw> invalid? 15:05:29 <valhallasw> peter1138: directx is part of the OS ;) 15:05:35 <KUDr> yes, directx is another example 15:05:38 <peter1138> but we don't link to any specific video driver, of course 15:05:40 <KUDr> no 15:05:44 <glx> unicows is part of the os too 15:05:51 <Maedhros> we;re also not trying to distribute directx :P 15:05:51 <KUDr> we can redistribute direct x too 15:05:56 <Noldo> really? 15:05:57 <valhallasw> no, we can not 15:05:57 <KUDr> it is supplement to OS 15:06:08 <KUDr> any SW vendor can 15:06:14 <valhallasw> but the GPL limits us 15:06:14 <peter1138> lots of games used to, back in the direct3 era 15:06:17 <peter1138> it was annoying ;p 15:06:18 <KUDr> including GPL vendors 15:06:30 <valhallasw> okay, guys 15:06:40 <Noldo> peter1138: they might have had explicit permission 15:06:50 <hylje> peter1138: most games redistribute directx nowadays as well 15:06:54 <glx> [16:06:27] <peter1138> it was annoying ;p <-- mostly when they wanted to downgrade your DX installation :) 15:06:57 <valhallasw> Noldo: the point is not about MS allowing us to use it 15:07:01 <KUDr> Noldo: permission from who? 15:07:08 <peter1138> i dunno, i don't touch modern games 15:07:20 <peter1138> glx: yes 15:07:23 <valhallasw> KUDr: (1) For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. 15:07:25 <Noldo> valhallasw: I know, but is also an issue 15:07:41 <KUDr> "all modules it contains" 15:07:50 <KUDr> this is clear to me 15:07:53 <valhallasw> KUDr: (2) However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, 15:07:55 <peter1138> bored now 15:07:59 <valhallasw> (note the *special*) 15:08:05 <KUDr> OTTD doesn't contain unicows 15:08:10 <valhallasw> (3) *unless that component itself accompanies the executable.* 15:08:16 <glx> valhallasw: we don't provide zlib, png or sdl source but we use them 15:08:18 <valhallasw> OTTD dynamically links to it 15:08:20 <KUDr> unicows is installed together, but not contained 15:08:25 <KUDr> yes 15:08:34 <KUDr> but it is not regulated 15:08:44 <KUDr> you can link to whatever you want 15:09:01 <valhallasw> glx: you only need to be able to hand over the source to anyone who asks 15:09:12 <valhallasw> you do not need to distribute the source on the same medium etc 15:09:14 <Ailure> "MSN names are like a logarithmic derivative. The longer your name, the less IQ you have." 15:09:17 <Ailure> Just made that up 15:09:21 <peter1138> regulated? heh 15:09:28 <Ailure> after seeing some classmate with a really long and annoying IM nickname on MSN 15:09:51 <valhallasw> KUDr: GPL'ed software *cannot* link to whatever you want 15:09:58 <valhallasw> that's the whole point 15:10:14 <KUDr> valhallasw: if it true, what you tell, then any GPL plugin to non-GPL SW is invalid 15:10:18 <KUDr> nonsense 15:10:23 <valhallasw> KUDr: that is very true 15:10:26 <valhallasw> but is another case 15:10:31 <KUDr> no 15:10:35 <KUDr> it is not true 15:10:48 <valhallasw> Unles you use the LGPL, it is 15:10:53 <KUDr> it is legal to make OS extensions under GPL 15:10:57 <Noldo> link statically or dynamically? 15:11:05 <KUDr> even for non-GPL OS 15:11:15 <KUDr> the same for any commercial SW 15:11:20 <valhallasw> it is against the GPL to load modules in a non-GPL OS 15:11:25 <KUDr> no 15:11:31 <valhallasw> but that is a completely different subject 15:11:32 <KUDr> you misread this 15:11:41 <valhallasw> and if you do not even see that, this discussion is over 15:12:00 <valhallasw> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=36153 <- read. 15:12:06 <Tron> could you move this to #zealotry? 15:12:19 <KUDr> valhallasw: you have pasted many lines here but nowhere it is stated what you derive from it 15:12:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:12:26 *** Tuzlo [~bill@blk-215-68-38.eastlink.ca] has quit [] 15:12:31 <valhallasw> KUDr: from the GPL 15:12:33 <stillunknown> valhallasw: you can use stuff commonly available on systems, as long as it's not in the package 15:12:34 <valhallasw> WHAT ELSE 15:12:35 <valhallasw> geez. 15:12:45 <valhallasw> I'm outta here. 15:12:51 *** valhallasw is now known as valhallasw`gone 15:13:30 <KUDr> Tron: is "zealotry" some SW discussed here? 15:13:41 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h209236.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:13:43 <KUDr> we discussed about OTTD 15:13:47 <Digitalfox> Now this is the way to finish a discussion.. Just leaving.. Oh well .. 15:14:06 <KUDr> yeah, it helps 15:14:36 <valhallasw`gone> Digitalfox: hey, if people don't read what you type, and dont even try to imagine where quotes come from, I quit the discussion. 15:14:55 <Tron> KUDr: no, it's no software 15:15:31 <stillunknown> he label "computer zealot" pejoratively refers to a person who strongly advocates a specific operating system, programming language, program or hardware for every application, appropriate or not. 15:15:34 <KUDr> valhallasw`gone: we read what you type, but please don't force use to belive it 15:16:27 <KUDr> stillunknown: thanks, but still i don'tunderstand why we should move OTTD licensing discussion there 15:18:12 <Ailure> hmm 15:20:16 <Ailure> what did I miss 15:20:16 <stillunknown> KUDr: i don't know why it should move there too 15:20:33 <peter1138> nothing interesting 15:20:40 <Digitalfox> valhallasw`gone: You have to try to understand everyone point of view.. Then explain in a easy way why you think your point of view is right one :) 15:20:42 <Ailure> seemed like pages of rambling 15:20:47 <Ailure> for a non-issue 15:20:55 <voodoo070> mooo 15:23:51 *** pecisk [~pecisk@91.123.69.54] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 15:25:08 *** pecisk [~pecisk@91.123.69.54] has joined #openttd 15:25:13 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:25:14 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 15:28:11 <Digitalfox> For relaxing a joke.. A guy goes to the hospital, he waits in waiting room for his women giving birth.. When the doctor comes, the doctor says " You are father of 6 kids, congratulations" and the guy says " Thanks doctor, but my dick is so big, strong and powerfull that i already knowed that she would had a lot of kid's".. And the doctor answers " Well then your dick is rusty that they were... 15:28:12 <Digitalfox> ...born black " .. :) 15:28:28 <Digitalfox> Sorry for some bad translation from portugues to english 15:28:54 *** scia_ [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:29:26 <Digitalfox> I hope you people inderstand the joke and no offense to anyone :) 15:29:36 <Digitalfox> understand 15:30:23 <valhallasw`gone> Digitalfox: I tried and failed, so I quit. 15:30:23 <peter1138> well it makes no sense in enlish... 15:31:00 <peter1138> GGG 15:31:39 <Digitalfox> peter1138: Ok i'll explain the guy thinks he has the the best dick on the world, and the doctor says he might have, but his children are black when the guy is white 15:31:55 <Digitalfox> rusty.. Got it ?? 15:32:11 <peter1138> rusty is reddy brown, not black 15:32:34 <valhallasw`gone> meh :p 15:32:38 *** valhallasw`gone is now known as valhallasw 15:32:43 <peter1138> but, it was a crap anyway 15:32:50 <Digitalfox> ok, so translation in altavista failed.. 15:32:53 <valhallasw> What happend if you put 5 emo's in a square room? 15:33:01 <Ailure> jokes tends to lose their sting 15:33:02 <Ailure> when translated 15:33:29 <valhallasw> One kills himself because he has no corner to cry in 15:34:16 <Digitalfox> Yeah i guess it depends on culture of eveyone.. The way some countrys has some expressions not understanded in other countrys 15:34:21 <Digitalfox> everyone 15:35:46 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:25 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 15:37:35 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:41:50 *** scia_ is now known as scia 15:43:04 *** Maedhros [~jc@smtp.gentoo.org] has quit [Quit: too much ssh lag] 15:43:47 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-133-70-232.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:44:36 *** sergey [znikoz@195-17-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:35 <Ailure> and what's generally acceptable as well 15:50:41 <Ailure> jokes go more further in Europa than they do in USA 15:51:49 <voodoo070> i'd say only in public 15:51:54 <voodoo070> puritans 15:55:59 <peter1138> more further? heh 15:56:08 *** EER|OTTD [~Henk@86.90.53.41] has joined #openttd 15:56:15 *** thunder1 [~thu@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has left #openttd [] 15:57:17 <EER|OTTD> Hello everyone, I just noticed that when placing signals, instead of the 'normal' signals, the mechanical signals are placed (so now I ctrl+click to place normal signals), is this intended behaviour? 15:57:28 <EER|OTTD> (using latest nightly) 15:58:36 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yes 15:58:39 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-75-75-0-121.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:42 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: see patch config 15:58:54 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: automatically place semaphores until the given date 15:59:10 <MiHaMeK> semaphore = mechanical signal 15:59:17 <EER|OTTD> ok, thx :D 15:59:21 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-133-70-232.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:47 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: in exchange for the above information, could you please create some docs with screenshots about it for the wiki.openttd.org page? 16:01:25 <peter1138> heh 16:01:43 <MiHaMeK> peter1138: ? :) how about the above 'business model'? :D 16:01:46 <EER|OTTD> ofcourse np 16:01:57 <EER|OTTD> where would you like to have it? 16:03:08 <voodoo070> it can never be good once people mention business models.. 16:03:11 <EER|OTTD> I'll add it to Patches: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Patches 16:03:32 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good 16:03:41 <MiHaMeK> voodoo070: i was just kidding ;) 16:03:49 <voodoo070> as was i :) 16:03:57 <EER|OTTD> I just haven't seen the gui option in configure patches btw, should it be edited in ini, or am I just overlooking? 16:04:32 <EER|OTTD> o wait 16:04:37 <EER|OTTD> I'm just overlooking it :P 16:04:45 <EER|OTTD> (expected on/off) 16:04:49 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yeah, that's what I wanted to suggest :) 16:05:00 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: no, actually you can supply a date 16:05:06 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-142-85-5.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:09:18 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 16:09:32 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-75-75-0-121.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:45 <EER|OTTD> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AutomaticSemaphores 16:19:06 <EER|OTTD> I have a screenshot locally, but I don't see any place to upload it (?) 16:19:30 <EER|OTTD> if the procedure is explained, I'll add it later (I'm off to eat right now) 16:20:03 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 16:20:03 <Born_Acorn> !logs 16:20:20 <voodoo070> openttd should have more road support 16:20:23 <voodoo070> like highways or some such 16:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> so where's your patch? 16:24:56 <Born_Acorn> I see theres been no development on custom bridgeheads for a while. Has development stalled? 16:26:18 <Born_Acorn> EER|OTTD, "Upload File"? 16:26:33 <Born_Acorn> But that only shows if you are logged in. 16:27:49 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: create wiki account, and you'll see an option, 'Upload file' appear 16:28:55 <Born_Acorn> You'll have three fields to fill in, and the last one is optional 16:29:16 <glx> I can see this option even without account but I must be logged in to use it :) 16:29:36 <Born_Acorn> The second one is filled in automactically 16:31:49 *** ceji [~ceji@128.65.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 16:32:19 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 16:32:23 *** pecisk [~pecisk@91.123.69.54] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 16:33:00 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 16:33:08 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h209236.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:28 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h209236.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> Born_Acorn: it was decided that there were too many obstacles to overcome, and then there was discussion about stacked tiles and variable bridges, which was the cause of the c++ conversion 16:43:36 <Born_Acorn> ah 16:44:21 <caladan> I created a little demo how to build railways 16:44:38 <caladan> http://home.elka.pw.edu.pl/~bbielaws/files/demo-rail.mpeg 16:44:41 <caladan> 16MB 16:44:49 <Ailure> why not put it on youtube or osmething? 16:44:50 <Ailure> heh 16:44:55 <Ailure> *downloads* 16:45:08 <caladan> cause i dont like registering 16:45:22 <caladan> and with youtube you download it anyway, but it aint easy to save to disk 16:45:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8430 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): 16:45:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 16:45:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Replace the rather obscure control flow for handling aircraft/ship/train orders by something remotly comprehensible (see r3584) 16:45:50 <caladan> But i guess there's an easier way to make demos... 16:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> why MPEG-2 if you ccould do MPEG-4/XviD with half the size? 16:46:05 <Ailure> also what was it made with? 16:46:11 <caladan> xvidcap 16:46:17 <caladan> did i encode it as mpeg2? 16:46:23 <Ailure> well youtube would also be a reliable host 16:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> .mpeg is only for MPEG-2 16:46:42 <Ailure> while it's not sure for how long you have that account, it seems to be related to a university 16:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> MPEG-4 must usually be stored in a container format like avi or ogm 16:47:12 <caladan> ok, i hope it's only extension, it should be mpeg4 16:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know what you encoded, but the extension is odd 16:47:34 <caladan> if demos like that are ok, i will upload it to youtube 16:48:08 <caladan> mplayers sais its mpeg4 16:48:17 <caladan> says* 16:48:17 <Ailure> lesse 16:48:20 <Ailure> if anything I have plays it 16:48:37 <Ailure> VLC for the win 16:48:41 <caladan> change ext to .avi then, maybe it helps 16:48:50 <Ailure> uhm 16:48:53 <Ailure> there's one problem with it 16:49:04 <Ailure> it runs a little wee fast 16:49:04 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83E70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!] 16:49:19 <caladan> yes, it does 16:49:26 <caladan> could force it to run slowly... 16:49:33 <caladan> it just didnt get 20 frames/s 16:49:34 <Ailure> what are you recording with? 16:49:50 <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: all done :) 16:50:09 <caladan> xvidcap 16:50:22 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp83-237-103-214.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 16:51:26 <Ailure> ah 16:51:34 <Ailure> seems like any decent video recording utility for windows costs money 16:51:40 <Ailure> and any free is for X-server systems 16:51:47 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good job, lemme see :) 16:51:53 <EER|OTTD> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AutomaticSemaphores 16:52:15 <EER|OTTD> I noticed later that everything else is called 'the real name of the setting including spaces' 16:52:29 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: you should replace the image http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:Patches-construction.png 16:52:33 <EER|OTTD> but maybe that can be fixed somehow (I'm quite new in Wiki editing) 16:52:51 * EER|OTTD is on it 16:52:58 <caladan> i can look for more linux programms that do that, maybe some are faster... 16:53:39 <Ailure> well 16:53:44 <Ailure> you shouldn't be a ADHD kid 16:53:46 <Ailure> to be able to watch it 16:53:47 <Ailure> :P 16:53:49 <Ailure> that's a requirment 16:53:50 <Ailure> lol 16:53:57 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: moved page to here: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/SemaphoreBuildBefore 16:54:14 <Ailure> that video looked like watching a starcraft player playing openTTD 16:54:28 <hylje> :o 16:54:35 <hylje> i think i also play ottd sc style 16:55:12 <Ailure> hehe well to admit 16:55:18 <Ailure> I started using more shortcuts lately 16:55:36 <Ailure> and juts not the most useful ones (such as delete to remove all windows) 16:55:43 <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: updated the picture in http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:Patches-construction.png 16:55:50 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: yeah, thanks, just checked :) 16:56:22 <hylje> Ailure: i construct stuff purely by shortcuts 16:56:26 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: edit this too, please: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Configure_Construction_Patches#Configure_Patches_Window:_Construction_Section 16:56:35 <EER|OTTD> hmm, it doesn't look very well here, like it's stretched or something 16:56:41 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: add the newly documented option 16:56:50 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: press Ctrl-Shift-R 16:56:58 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: to force reload the page 16:57:04 <EER|OTTD> ah :D 16:57:07 <EER|OTTD> better 16:57:33 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83E70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:57:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:57:44 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: and, btw, could you please document the option 'Max distance from edge for Oil Refineries'? :) 16:58:33 <EER|OTTD> does that do what I think it does? minimal distance from edge in tiles? 16:59:06 <EER|OTTD> make that maximal 16:59:56 <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: oil_refinery_limit ? 17:00:20 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: maximal distance from edge 17:00:28 <Ailure> heh 17:00:35 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: what does the word 'maximal' means to you? ;P 17:00:45 <EER|OTTD> virtually nothing :P 17:01:05 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: this options determines the maximum allowed distance from the edge for an oil refinery 17:01:51 <EER|OTTD> MiHaMeK: both added :) 17:02:13 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: good job 17:02:24 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: now you can go and play an hour of OpenTTD :-) 17:02:27 <EER|OTTD> finally I can continue my OTTD game :D 17:02:27 <EER|OTTD> :P 17:02:45 <MiHaMeK> EER|OTTD: after that time, be here and offer your services to extend the wiki further :D 17:03:00 <EER|OTTD> hehe 17:03:07 <EER|OTTD> I may be ;) 17:03:11 <MiHaMeK> ok :) 17:03:38 <EER|OTTD> it's only a 128x256 map so it shouldn't take too long :P 17:03:45 <MiHaMeK> ok 17:04:04 <MiHaMeK> after the first year you've realized profit, suspend the game and come back :D 17:04:49 <Born_Acorn> MiHaMeK, haven't you updated the MediaWiki version yet? :p 17:04:53 <EER|OTTD> It's already 1958 and profitable since 1951 ;) 17:05:02 <EER|OTTD> but multiplayer 17:05:04 *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2Eat 17:05:23 <Born_Acorn> 1.9.0 has been released since I suggested it, which is even better than 1.8.9! 17:06:01 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: err... good idea! :) 17:06:22 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: maybe i'll update it ... err... this weekend.. or... soon? :D 17:06:36 <Born_Acorn> It is this weekend! Aha! 17:06:45 <Born_Acorn> I can't find any screenshots of someone using the DBSet on the wiki. :( 17:08:09 <Born_Acorn> As the new template I just made requires screenshots 17:08:53 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: ok, are you experienced in upgrading the wiki? :) 17:09:06 <Tron> the english wikipedia entry has an image with DB set trains 17:09:21 <Born_Acorn> I'm not, no. :p 17:09:39 <Born_Acorn> Ooh, there are, too. 17:10:06 <Born_Acorn> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading_to_1.9 <-- But they do have a nice manual. :p 17:12:52 <MiHaMeK> thanks 17:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a few DBSetXL screenshots, but they are from MiniIN 17:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> even worse, a modified MiniIN ;) 17:15:27 <Born_Acorn> I found a suitable one. :p 17:18:19 <Born_Acorn> Argh, it hurts 17:18:24 *** DirtYiCE [~dirty_ice@84.236.50.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:51 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: geee, I have to update to php 5.1.. 17:19:10 <Born_Acorn> Are you behind the times, MiHaMeK? :p 17:19:45 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: hmm, I'm already having php5.1 installed 17:19:46 <MiHaMeK> good 17:21:08 <MiHaMeK> hmm 17:21:13 <MiHaMeK> i'll upgrade to php5.2 17:25:52 <MiHaMeK> hmm, ready :) 17:27:54 <MiHaMeK> PHP Version 5.2.0 :D 17:34:53 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:35:01 <Born_Acorn> The bleeding edge of PHP! 17:35:43 <hylje> :o 17:37:37 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: yeah, and probably the edge is bleeding from numerous bugs :D 17:37:44 <Born_Acorn> heehee 17:37:59 <hylje> i heard the php people don't want to fix some blatant bugs 17:38:20 <MiHaMeK> ls 17:38:24 <MiHaMeK> err.. wrong terminal 17:38:27 <MiHaMeK> :D 17:38:35 <hylje> :wq 17:39:55 <Maedhros> i thought that was a smiley for a minute there... 17:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's the look you get from too much viming ;) 17:42:04 <MiHaMeK> :DDD 17:42:51 <MiHaMeK> err.. 17:42:54 <MiHaMeK> anyhow.. 17:43:01 <MiHaMeK> Buckle your seatbelt Dorothy, cause Kansas...is goin' byebye.. 17:43:10 <hylje> not an editor command: DDD 17:43:11 <MiHaMeK> (wiki will be down for maintenance) 17:44:36 <MiHaMeK> from now on 17:49:13 <Born_Acorn> :o 17:49:17 <Born_Acorn> Can I remove AI companies via Console? 17:49:53 <Born_Acorn> ooh, never mind, I just did it another way 17:50:30 <Born_Acorn> Use the cheat to take it over, delete everything and spend all it's money. :p 17:50:46 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h209236.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:47 <MiHaMeK> :D 17:51:51 *** Sacro_ [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 17:52:25 *** TSC [~user@c220-237-36-237.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:52:29 *** TSC [~user@c220-237-36-237.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:53:03 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: C-x C-c] 17:53:19 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:53:55 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:04 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 17:57:08 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-956370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:29 <MiHaMeK> hmm 17:57:33 <MiHaMeK> almost finished 17:57:41 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: ping 17:59:24 <Born_Acorn> Pong 17:59:28 <MiHaMeK> Born_Acorn: om 17:59:29 <MiHaMeK> pm 17:59:39 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 18:00:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:04:17 *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea 18:04:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B761A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:06 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B753FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D06E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:38 * EER|OTTD is going to read something, it looks like the new wiki is not online yet 18:26:27 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@89.98.191.129] has joined #openttd 18:26:27 *** EER|OTTD [~Henk@86.90.53.41] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by banana] 18:31:24 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 18:31:31 <MeusH> hello 18:31:49 <caladan> hi 18:33:12 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: C-x C-c] 18:33:18 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:35:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8431 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed) 18:35:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-27 19:34:37 18:35:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 fixed by arnaullv (4) 18:35:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed, 2 changed by MiR (6) 18:35:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4) 18:35:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 4 fixed by glx (4) 18:35:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 fixed by Neonox (4) 18:40:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:58:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:03:24 *** MiHaMeK [~miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:06 <caladan> hmm, where are mouse_up events handled? 19:04:17 <caladan> i found mouse_down but cant get mouse_up 19:04:58 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176126226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 19:08:37 <peter1138> if the mouse isn't down, it's up 19:09:12 *** Neonox [~Neonox@p57B2BDB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:09:34 <caladan> hmm, ok, but then drag&drop works as: 19:09:50 <caladan> wait for down, wait till we got zeros? 19:09:53 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-232-76.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 19:10:09 <peter1138> who knowsx 19:10:14 <caladan> ok :D 19:10:30 <caladan> cause wanted to do something like hmmm, writing down user actions... 19:10:45 <SpComb> drag&drop until the mouse stops moving 19:10:57 <caladan> hmm, it cant be like that 19:11:08 <caladan> cause you can just wait a little holding button 19:11:19 <SpComb> it *could* be like that 19:13:10 * SpComb reads the OpenTTD section 19:13:15 <SpComb> the last time I did this was a while ago 19:18:36 <caladan> hmm, the easiest way to make small demos-tutorials would be record events and then just reload them from file in proper time 19:19:10 <Maedhros> which would also be very useful for bug reports 19:19:40 <caladan> so if someone would like to help me, i would try to do it 19:20:30 <caladan> but if you say, that is just a lack of button beeing pressed i will try hmm, do something like emulating up event :D 19:21:23 <MeusH> caladan, some people have already tried recording demos 19:21:35 <MeusH> it's on the forum, their code may help you 19:21:44 <MeusH> and you may know why did they fail... 19:24:45 <MeusH> I remember two people coding demo support for OpenTTD 19:24:50 <MeusH> but I can't find the threads :/ 19:25:27 <caladan> i will think of it 19:25:52 <MeusH> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=384557#384557 19:25:58 *** Zoney [~Zoney37@c-24-128-196-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:26:04 <MeusH> consider errors with screen resolution 19:26:33 <MeusH> it would be smart to make mouse move to a specific widget rather than a location(x,y) 19:26:39 <Zoney> is there a way i can play openttd on my Jornada? 19:27:16 <MeusH> caladan, here: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=384612#384612 19:27:29 <MeusH> Zoney, what's Joranda? 19:27:32 <MeusH> OS? 19:27:38 <Zoney> Ce 19:27:49 <Zoney> its a hp hendheld pc 19:28:09 <MeusH> sorry, I searched for "Joranda" :/ 19:28:22 <Zoney> ? 19:28:32 <MeusH> There was a PDA conversion for OpenTTD 19:28:39 <Zoney> ok 19:28:43 <MeusH> but it was around 0.4.0 19:28:45 <MeusH> or even before 19:28:50 <MeusH> so no nice features 19:28:56 <MeusH> its developement stopped 19:29:08 <Zoney> awww 19:31:18 <MeusH> Zoney, http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Special:Search?search=PDA should do the trick but the wiki seems to be down 19:31:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8432 /branches/newhouses/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NewHouses] -Feature: Allow substitute house ids of 0xFF, which means you can disable original houses. 19:31:59 <Wolf01> bbl 19:32:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host97-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 19:41:15 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B788BE.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 19:41:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8433 /branches/newhouses/src/newgrf_house.cpp: [NewHouses] -Fix (r8432): If a GRF is removed, only replace new houses with their substitute ids. 19:47:03 *** MiHaMHoMe [~mihamix@catv5403DFEF.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 19:47:29 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:05 *** MiHaMHoMe is now known as MiHaMiX 19:48:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o MiHaMiX] by ChanServ 19:49:28 *** MiHaMiX changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC4 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2 [DOWN], Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly [DOWN], WIKI: wiki [DOWN], SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs [DOWN], Bug-reports: bugs [DOWN]) 19:50:13 <MiHaMiX> Administrative announce: Several OpenTTD services are down due to network failure 19:50:53 <Magus_X> what happened? 19:54:05 <MiHaMiX> firewall went down unexpectedly 19:57:23 <izhirahider> hmmm, svn is up, but interestingly the revision 8433 doesn't compile (gcc 4.1.1) 19:57:35 <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: In function 'void HandleAircraftLoading(Vehicle*, int)': 19:57:41 <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:1284: error: jump to case label 19:57:47 <izhirahider> src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:1277: error: crosses initialization of 'Order b' 19:57:50 <izhirahider> (...) 19:59:38 <Maedhros> so it doesn't 20:00:46 <Maedhros> i think it's missing some brackets around the whole case block 20:02:56 <peter1138> i guess tron's compiler doesn't complain about that 20:05:26 <caladan> hmm, recording demo with sensible fps rate is quite hard... 20:05:38 <caladan> too much data really 20:05:50 *** imaginner [~imaginner@aclf61.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 20:07:50 <imaginner> hello 20:08:44 <MeusH> hello imaginner 20:09:28 <MeusH> caladan, what data? 20:09:45 <MeusH> you don't save each mouse move... do you? 20:10:05 <caladan> no, saving video data 20:10:31 <caladan> for window 640x480 20fps it gives 6MB per second, if we have 8bit colour 20:10:35 <MeusH> did you give up coding demo support? 20:10:43 <caladan> im rethinking how to do it 20:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> caladan: don't compress in real time 20:10:57 <caladan> true, but how to make a raw dump 20:11:30 <caladan> if i could do a snapshot of each frame from sdl level and then compress.. 20:12:55 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you could intercept all draw operations in sdl_v.c(pp) 20:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and store those into a file 20:14:36 <caladan> hmm, that's an idea... 20:14:42 <caladan> i try some x11 utils 20:14:43 <Maedhros> does OS X use SDL, or is it entirely replaced by cocoa? 20:15:07 <caladan> it doesnt really matter, such video may be made once 20:15:17 <caladan> under one OS, no need to make it really portable 20:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, you can just invoke the screenshot-routine on each tick 20:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> in date.c or something 20:17:17 <caladan> with bmp it could work... 20:17:40 *** mikk36|lap [~mikk36@pc74.host2.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:50 *** mikk36|lap [~mikk36@pc74.host2.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 20:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> void IncreaseDate(void) <-- that appears to be a function run each tick 20:20:12 <caladan> Eddi|zuHause: thx will look into that 20:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the game has like 33 fps 20:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could do each 2nd tick or so 20:21:57 <Bjarni> <Maedhros> does OS X use SDL, or is it entirely replaced by cocoa? <-- for some odd reason, SDL automatically disables cocoa when it's set to compile with support for both, so you have to pick one at compile time 20:22:10 <Bjarni> cocoa do work a whole lot better, so it's default and recommended 20:22:29 <Bjarni> for if you like, you can make an OSX binary, that relies on SDL instead 20:22:31 <peter1138> DOES 20:22:38 <Maedhros> ah, ok 20:23:37 <Zoney> mm.. 20:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that appears like wasted effort to me ;) 20:24:43 <peter1138> Bjarni: i can't see any reason why enabling SDL should disable cocoa... 20:24:49 <Bjarni> does sounds too much like DOS to me :P 20:25:12 <peter1138> DOS sounds nothing like does 20:25:13 *** Zoney [~Zoney37@c-24-128-196-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:25:35 <peter1138> DOS = doss, does = duz 20:27:00 <Bjarni> duz doesn't sound like the English I learned at school 20:27:05 <caladan> ok, it is about 30fps 20:27:10 <Bjarni> maybe that tells more about the teacher than me 20:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he means "das", but they speak their 'u' strangely ;) 20:27:44 *** Neonox [~Neonox@p57B2BDB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: bin wech....] 20:28:10 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 20:28:41 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: i can't see any reason why enabling SDL should disable cocoa... <-- same here. I never found the reason though, but I never spent much time on it anyway 20:28:52 <Maedhros> it doesn't sound anything like das, at least not with the way i would pronounce 'das' ;) 20:28:53 <Bjarni> just as long as cocoa just works, I figure that it's ok 20:29:41 <Bjarni> in Danish, "das" means an outhouse... on of those without water and just a barrel 20:30:29 <Bjarni> some funny guys said that das and dos are so closely related that it's not just at random 20:31:32 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:41 *** sergey [znikoz@195-17-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:17 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:14 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 20:49:10 <imaginner> is the order of sections in openttd.cfg important? 20:49:29 <glx> no 20:49:44 <imaginner> thanks 20:53:05 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 20:59:28 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:26 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:18:14 *** voodoo070 [~voodoo@c529c249d.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [] 21:20:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D06E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:24:47 *** qkr [~qkr@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe18fa00-70.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:27:25 *** ceji [~ceji@128.65.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #openttd [] 21:27:35 <imaginner> hey, does the wiki work? 21:27:48 <imaginner> I can't connect to it :/ 21:28:10 <caladan> ok, got a lot of images :D 21:28:26 <caladan> it almost doesnt slow game 21:29:01 <Maedhros> imaginner: see /topic :) 21:29:07 <imaginner> oops 21:29:32 <imaginner> :P didn't see that 21:29:49 <imaginner> thx Maedhros, anyway ) 21:41:18 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 21:53:53 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.229] has joined #openttd 21:53:55 <Ailure> haha 21:53:58 <Ailure> invited my classmate to a game 21:54:05 <Ailure> it's cute as he only have played the orginal TT 21:54:19 <Ailure> so he plays the game TTO style 21:54:23 <Ailure> with one lane for every train :p 21:55:16 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [Quit: RichK67] 21:58:34 <imaginner> heh ) 21:59:06 <imaginner> I never actually played the original ) 21:59:16 <imaginner> the Deluxe only 22:00:25 <Maedhros> TTO was fun 22:00:39 <Maedhros> it only had two way signals, and you couldn't build them on diagonal tracks 22:00:40 *** TSC [~user@c220-237-36-237.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:15 <MeusH> Maedhros, when playing TTO I didn't really knew about signals 22:03:33 <MeusH> I was doing what AI was doing :) 22:04:02 <Maedhros> hehe, yeah 22:04:26 <Maedhros> the ai i was playing against built quite a lot of two track stations, and passing loops though :) 22:06:19 *** TSC [~user@c220-237-36-237.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:08:22 <caladan> ok, got hmm, some effects 22:08:32 <caladan> but problems with colors now... :/ 22:11:15 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@89.98.191.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:38 *** kovan [~k@87.235.70.47] has joined #openttd 22:15:52 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 22:16:06 <kovan> hi 22:16:12 <kovan> i have one problem with openttd 22:16:45 <peter1138> only one? 22:16:51 <peter1138> you're lucky :) 22:17:08 <glx> what is your problem? 22:17:10 <caladan> hmm, can mouse pointer be seen on screenshot? 22:17:29 <peter1138> no 22:17:31 <glx> caladan: no it's hidden before it 22:17:40 <peter1138> but only cos it's explicitly hidden 22:17:46 <kovan> once the light went off while i was playing 22:17:46 <kovan> and since then i cannot build some kinds of train machines in the game i was playing 22:18:56 <caladan> ok, gona change that for myself, thx 22:19:44 <kovan> it also happens to be the best machine available, the asiastar, so i can't build new trains :( 22:24:58 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 22:28:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8434 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r8430): Missing braces caused compilation failure for some (most?) compilers... 22:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> kovan: ever tried to build electric rails? 22:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming you recently upgraded to 0.5) 22:33:47 <kovan> Eddi|zuHause: yep, with no luck 22:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to upgrade the depot to electric also 22:35:21 <caladan> i still get wrong colorus 22:35:26 <caladan> did wnyone use transcode? 22:36:28 <kovan> i know 22:36:47 <kovan> i only can build the SH 40 22:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i need more nickname colours... i get totally confused as soon as 2 people get assigned the same colour 22:36:52 <kovan> an i'm in 2050 22:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so, the engines are too old and you should switch to maglev? i haven't played with the default engines in ages 22:39:32 <kovan> but i have another game where i can always build the asiastar 22:39:43 <kovan> which is the fastest electrical train machine 22:40:04 <kovan> i can build it even in 2090 22:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if there was anything changed there... 22:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> in the worst case, go to the patches screen, select that vehicles do not expire, go to the console, and type resetengines 22:43:09 <kovan> Eddi|zuHause: now yes! 22:43:12 <kovan> thanks 22:43:21 <kovan> awesome game btw 22:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> of course ;) 22:45:26 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:36 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498DB8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:54 <Smoovious> do enhanced cargo types work in OTTD? 22:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no 22:54:37 <Smoovious> k 22:54:51 *** Digitalfox_ [~chatzilla@bl8-40-196.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 22:55:13 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:51 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 22:57:00 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp83-237-103-214.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:18 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B788BE.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:53 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387D4DF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:09:40 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp83-237-103-214.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 23:13:53 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C233.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:04 <Maedhros> good night 23:15:26 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-142-85-5.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:19:48 <Darkvater> blathijs: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=546615#546615 << you didn't compile the debs with freetype? Or is it static freetype? 23:22:28 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:22:42 <caladan> kk, toolchain to generate demos almost ready :D 23:28:05 *** MiHaMiX [~mihamix@catv5403DFEF.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]] 23:29:10 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 23:29:35 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489FC8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:19 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-169.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:32:24 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-169.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 23:35:30 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:36 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 23:36:54 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [] 23:36:59 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 23:40:45 <KeeperOfTheSoul> is there any way to get more than the stardard 3 levels of zoom? 23:41:02 <Darkvater> yes, use binoculars 23:42:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D06E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:27 <XeryusTC> KeeperOfTheSoul: ctrl+d 23:42:32 <XeryusTC> makes 4 in windows :P 23:43:08 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:08 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:43:22 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 23:43:25 <KeeperOfTheSoul> ah, that'll do, its just that some of the text has gotten quite small at 1920x1200 23:44:06 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:26 *** voodoo070 [~voodoo@c529c249d.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:56:30 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-148.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:56:40 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-157-148.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:57:31 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 23:57:43 <Sacro> hmmm, how about an Integrated "Stable" 23:57:59 <Sacro> user patched 0.5.0