Log for #openttd on 31st January 2007:
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00:00:02  <Bjarni> <-- I know some guys, who are trying to build that one as a model
00:00:20  <voodoo070> wicked lookin
00:00:38  <caladan> it looks like a lot of work...
00:00:39  <Bjarni> scale 1:10 or something
00:00:39  <voodoo070> im not that much of a train lover, but those old steam things look best imho
00:00:50  <voodoo070> nice design
00:00:52  <Bjarni> real steam
00:01:01  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:01:29  <caladan> huh, all those problems with high preasure and so on...
00:01:35  <caladan> and here something early-electric:
00:01:37  <Bjarni> yeah
00:01:49  <voodoo070> yeah but on a model you can make the boiler walls unrealistically thick
00:01:51  <Bjarni> I think they are aiming at 9 kg/cm^2 or something
00:02:16  <Bjarni> which means they needs approval to be heated up, just like real steam locomotives
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00:03:05  <caladan> true, and if scale is 1:10 then volume of bolier is like 1:1000
00:03:32  <Bjarni> note: the 4-4-0 American design only had a boiler pressure of 8 kg/cm^2 or something
00:03:58  <voodoo070> i wouldnt mess about with untested high pressure vessels anyway :)
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00:04:12  <Bjarni> and 100 km/h is within reach when using a boiler pressure of 12 kg/cm^2
00:04:17  <Bjarni> so 9 is a decent pressure
00:04:27  <voodoo070> lol
00:04:31  <voodoo070> racing train :)
00:04:46  <voodoo070> too bad they dont race trains
00:04:54  <voodoo070> they race trucks.. why not trains :P
00:04:55  <Bjarni> they used to
00:05:39  <voodoo070> yeah i know
00:05:53  <Bjarni> In the 1930s or something, they had a schedule to start two identically train from Copenhagen at the same time. They tried to see who could arrive first at the next station
00:06:05  <Bjarni> at a regular basis
00:06:10  <Bjarni> but it was not official
00:06:12  <Bjarni> they just did it :P
00:06:17  <voodoo070> yeah i saw a docu bout the UK
00:06:20  <voodoo070> where they did the same
00:06:24  <voodoo070> at the very start
00:06:29  <voodoo070> narrow rail
00:06:41  <voodoo070> inventors trying to best eachother
00:07:25  <Bjarni> <-- they used locomotives like this one
00:07:33  <Bjarni> odds are that this one have been racing as well
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00:07:55  <caladan> LOL, the dir name couldne be longer?? :P
00:08:05  <Bjarni> I think it could
00:08:10  <Bjarni> but I don't see the point
00:08:31  <Bjarni> it tells when and where the picture is taken
00:08:54  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:09:02  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
00:09:10  <caladan> dir -> fotografierafdamplokomotiverltrp
00:09:24  <Bjarni> btw it's a nice engine. It's a 1000 HP tank engine with a max speed of 90 km/h
00:09:41  <Bjarni> well, it tells what it is
00:09:59  <Bjarni> photos of steam locomotives "ltrp"
00:10:10  <Bjarni> I don't get the last 4 letters though
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00:10:29  <caladan> ok:D
00:10:37  <Bjarni> you might have seen this design before
00:10:48  <Bjarni> even though you likely don't remember it
00:11:24  <Bjarni> in James Bond octopussy, there is a circus train where a lot of action takes place. It's pulled by a locomotive of this design
00:11:43  <caladan> Hmm, these shields look familiar
00:12:04  <Bjarni> so it was a Danish locomotive, built in Denmark, recorded in England and they claim it to take place in Germany and that it's a German train
00:12:14  <Bjarni> that's simple, right?
00:12:36  <Bjarni> err, you have seen those smoke shields before???
00:12:45  <Bjarni> I thought they were custom designed
00:12:48  <Bjarni> for this engine
00:13:00  *** Sacro [Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:13:05  <caladan> hmmm
00:13:15  <caladan> they were used in pre WWII time in poland
00:13:19  <Bjarni> you see, it got the front custom designed after it appeared that it had serious smoke issues when driving in tunnels
00:13:20  <caladan> as some kind of experiment
00:14:54  <Bjarni> how did it go?
00:15:18  <caladan> Im not sure...
00:15:23  <Bjarni> this is a pre WWII locomotive, so it's likely from the same time
00:15:25  <caladan> lemme check, maybe i can find it
00:15:56  <Bjarni> the design is from 1923, but they started out without those smoke shields. They were added later, but I don't know how much later
00:16:06  <Bjarni> but it was before 1930
00:16:25  <caladan> got books about Steam Engines
00:16:32  <caladan> no ctrl+f there :/
00:17:02  <Sacro_> Bjaaaaaaaaaaarni!
00:21:18  <Bjarni> hmm
00:21:25  <Bjarni> actually they added them rather late
00:21:32  <Bjarni> 1935-39
00:21:52  <Bjarni> which means they had severe smoke issues and had to drive blindly for more than 10 years o_O
00:22:02  <caladan> yep...
00:22:07  <caladan> cant find it..
00:22:17  <Bjarni> then again, I'm not sure they had signals in the tunnel back then
00:22:20  <Bjarni> they do now
00:22:33  <Bjarni> they got funny signals in there
00:22:59  <Bjarni> you see, they lack room for signals, so they are actually just coloured lightbulbs on the wall
00:23:09  <caladan> hehe
00:23:51  <Bjarni> which is one of the reasons why locomotive drivers aren't allowed to be colourblind
00:24:16  *** Sacro_ is now known as sacro
00:24:19  <caladan> well, having all those semaphores with different order of lights...
00:24:19  *** sacro is now known as Sacro
00:24:40  <caladan> it can be from one light to 5 lights and additional one in poland i guess
00:27:15  <Bjarni> well
00:27:22  <Bjarni> signals can be a bit complex
00:27:32  <Bjarni> but green means go and red means stop
00:27:36  <Bjarni> at least most of the time
00:27:39  <caladan> :D
00:27:48  <caladan> and pulsing yellow means something else
00:27:59  <Bjarni> we don't have that here
00:28:07  <Bjarni> but yellow means slow down
00:28:07  <caladan> and yellow means something else to freight train and something else for passanger train
00:28:10  <Bjarni> well
00:28:14  <Bjarni> we do have flashing yellow
00:28:27  <Bjarni> it means slow down at next signal (it could be red)
00:28:50  <Bjarni> used when the next signal is in a curve or some other location, that's hard to see
00:28:51  <caladan>
00:29:02  <caladan> yep, something like presignal :D
00:29:10  <caladan> there you go polish signals
00:29:47  <Bjarni> actually directly translated, we do call them presignals
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00:29:58  <Bjarni> the exception is that a presignal here can't show red
00:30:10  <Bjarni> so you can never be forced to stop
00:30:25  <Bjarni> it can however tell you to except a red signal
00:30:26  <caladan>
00:30:43  <caladan> we call em like repeating signals, to show they repeat sometings that's ahead
00:31:25  <Bjarni> we got "dublicated" signals as well. They always show the same
00:31:25  <caladan> and there are also signals for manoeuvring
00:32:04  <Bjarni> like if there is a road right after a curve, there is a signal to indicate if the barriers are in place and it's safe to move on
00:32:13  <Sacro> arrghh, not polish signals
00:32:14  <caladan>
00:32:18  <Sacro> they are the work of the devil
00:32:33  <caladan> those at bottom show if crossing with road is ok
00:32:38  <caladan> white - all ok, full speed
00:32:42  <Bjarni> if the curve makes it impossible to see the signal in reasonably time, then there are two of them, one at the road itself and one just before the curve
00:32:43  <caladan> orange/yellow, slow down
00:33:11  <Bjarni> heh
00:33:19  <Bjarni> we also use white for crossing roads
00:33:25  <Bjarni> and yellow for slowing down
00:33:30  <caladan> only on fast lines, like > 100km/h
00:33:44  <Bjarni> do you also use red for disallowing passing signals?
00:33:46  <Bjarni> :)
00:34:18  <Bjarni> we don't have special signals for higher speed
00:34:33  <caladan> we do
00:34:42  <caladan> and those flashing green lights mean like
00:34:49  <caladan> no more than 100km/h
00:34:57  <Bjarni> if you go faster than x, then you have to be told in advance what the next signal tells you
00:34:59  <caladan> it depends what kind of line
00:35:22  <Bjarni> but even if you go like 40 km/h, those signals can be used if it's hard to see the signal or something
00:35:26  <caladan> normal thing, yellow warns of red, but sometimes if it flashes, it means something different
00:36:15  <Bjarni> if we get a flashing red signal, then it means that something is broken in the signal system
00:36:25  <Bjarni> I have never actually seen that in real life
00:36:26  <caladan> look here:
00:36:40  <caladan> it means, at this signal no more than 100km/h
00:36:48  <caladan> and next one 40 or 60km/h :D
00:37:01  <caladan>
00:37:06  *** ufoun [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:37:12  <Bjarni> oh, we got "speed messages" like that as well
00:37:18  <caladan> this one says: pass this signal at 40km/h and then go as fast as you can
00:37:21  <Bjarni> they are just "sub signals"
00:37:32  <Bjarni> like a white sign under the signal
00:38:06  <caladan> we can have flashing lights and orange or green bar under signal..
00:38:18  <caladan> strange, never remebered what all these things do
00:38:55  <Bjarni> I like this message "allowed to pass at max 40 km/h and make sure to stop when you reach a red signal or stop sign because there can be a danger right after it"
00:39:16  <Bjarni> like it's not important to stop at red signals if you haven't got this message :D
00:39:32  <caladan> hehe :D
00:40:20  <caladan> i must say, one funny thing about polish railways is that we have a lot of signals for steam engines
00:40:31  <Bjarni> the idea is that it's used when you want to say join two DMUs. One enters the track and then this signal is used to allow the next one to enter the same track. The stop signal between those two lacks a safety distance so it's possible that there is a train 1 meter after the red signal
00:40:32  <caladan> and for well, unsnowing tracks
00:40:59  <Bjarni> normally there is a safety distance, just in case you get brake failures (like wet leaves on the track and so on)
00:41:16  <caladan> hmm, never seen something like that...
00:41:20  <voodoo070> lol wet leaves
00:41:26  <voodoo070> they make the wheels square lol :P
00:41:30  <caladan> they can be really slippery :P
00:41:41  <voodoo070> dutch railsroads have been complaining bout it a while back
00:41:42  <Bjarni> voodoo070: it's actually a serious issue
00:41:52  <voodoo070> breaking on wet leaves makes the wheels square
00:41:55  <voodoo070> cause of the sliding
00:42:07  <voodoo070> they had to do lots of wheel reshaping
00:42:09  <voodoo070> i guess ;)
00:42:14  <caladan> it depends what kine of wheels you got
00:42:19  <Bjarni> accelerating on wet leaves makes the wheels go round and round and the train... it's not accelerating
00:42:38  <caladan> there are two kinds as you probably know
00:42:49  <Bjarni> there are the round one and ?
00:42:58  <voodoo070> in belgium all wheels are square
00:43:01  <caladan> :D
00:43:07  <caladan> one kind is monolithic
00:43:16  <caladan> whole wheel is cast of one piece of metal
00:43:37  <caladan> and in poland we often use wheels on which you have to put some rings
00:44:01  <Bjarni> it's actually really bad not to use rings
00:44:11  <caladan> and if train brakes or in any ways makes wheel less round, you can just heat the wheel and take that ring from it
00:44:18  <caladan> repair and put it on again
00:44:35  <Bjarni> the rings are actually made soft on purpose to get worn faster. It's cheaper to replace wheel rings than tracks
00:44:49  <caladan> also true
00:44:58  <Bjarni> and replacing wheel rings is cheaper than replacing whole wheels
00:45:25  <caladan> that is the main problem in warsaw's undeground :D
00:45:32  <caladan> we had some trains from russia
00:45:42  <caladan> and these had thiso rings :/
00:46:03  <caladan> then someone smart said: hey, those were our enemies for so long, lets buy from france :/
00:46:14  <caladan> and they bought alstoms :/
00:46:26  <Bjarni> actually if the wheel is damaged and needs repair, you can just drive it on top of a (some machine I don't know the English name for) and then the wheel will be turned and it will slowly take off the metal until it's round again
00:46:40  <Bjarni> you don't even have to take off the axle anymore :D
00:46:42  <caladan> yep, like peeling the weel :D
00:47:14  <caladan> so now it costs a lot of money to repair that alstom, they have problems with brakes and with doors...
00:47:37  <Bjarni> 	<caladan>	then someone smart said: hey, those were our enemies for so long, lets buy from france :/ <-- sounds like USA. They drive in the right side because UK drives in the left one
00:47:40  <caladan> the good thing about products made in russia is that they are really HARD to break ;]
00:47:48  <Bjarni> and they didn't want to do the same
00:48:01  <voodoo070> ?
00:48:12  <voodoo070> or they suddenly had some sort of brick him their head
00:48:21  <voodoo070> and they finally chose to to The Right Thing (TM)
00:48:24  <voodoo070> :P
00:48:28  <voodoo070> to do even
00:49:07  <Sacro> mmmmmmm boobies
00:49:11  <voodoo070> maybe somewhere in the next 200 years itll happen again and theyll switch to metric :P
00:49:25  <Bjarni> 	<caladan>	the good thing about products made in russia is that they are really HARD to break ;] <--- yeah. Durability and reliability are valued high in Russia
00:49:43  <caladan> look at AK-47
00:49:53  <Bjarni> also they tend to be cheap
00:49:54  <caladan> simple but accurate
00:49:56  <caladan> cheap
00:49:59  <caladan> easy to repair
00:50:06  <Bjarni> AK-47 is not accurate
00:50:10  <caladan> it is
00:50:12  <voodoo070> yeah but thats 1 of the only good things they made
00:50:15  <voodoo070> and no not very accurate..
00:50:18  <Sacro> not on semi auto it aitn
00:50:23  <voodoo070> just very durable
00:50:28  <Bjarni> it just fires 100 bullets/minute, which is good enough even though it got a hard time aiming
00:50:32  <Sacro> guy on tv tried to shoot a transit van at 100 yards and coudnt
00:50:40  <Bjarni> it's accurate in single shot mode though
00:50:41  <caladan> ;]
00:50:57  <caladan> My father is a soldier, he hits man-like target at 50m with pistol ;]
00:51:17  <caladan> i wouldnt be sure he cant hit van at 100m with damn ak47
00:52:06  <Bjarni> in fully auto mode?
00:52:41  <Bjarni> auto mode works because the bullets goes everywhere, so all your enemies have to take cover
00:52:51  <Bjarni> a single shot kills one guy and then the rest can shoot you
00:53:24  <Bjarni> surprisingly it's not always about killing all of the enemies as fast as possible
00:53:34  <caladan> nope
00:53:35  <caladan> single shot
00:53:43  <Sacro> Bjarni: i dont think ak47 has full auto
00:53:46  <Bjarni> if you can make sure they can't fire on you, then you can buy some time
00:53:51  <Sacro> only semi auto
00:54:01  <caladan> accuracy isnt measured in auto mode ;]
00:54:11  <caladan> come one, all automatic weapns have to "kick"
00:54:13  <Bjarni> and for good reason
00:54:22  <caladan> it's the way they work
00:55:03  <caladan> it aint true that you can hold arm in front of you and fire in auto mode
00:55:13  <Bjarni> fully auto mode is when you pull the trigger and then it keeps on firing until you release right?
00:55:15  <caladan> you would shoot in 2 seconds at the ceiling
00:55:20  <caladan> yep
00:55:35  <Bjarni> semi auto is auto loading when you let go of the trigger, so you can push and pull it quickly
00:56:01  <caladan> hmm, i guess that semi auto is burst of some length
00:57:05  <caladan> hmm, nope your right
00:57:12  <caladan> semiauto is with reloading
00:57:54  <Bjarni> AK-47 got a spring, that's pushed backwards by the explosion in the bullet when firing. The movement of the spring will then throw out the empty shell and load a new bullet. Then the spring moves forward and hits the new bullet and is pushed backwards again
00:58:06  <Bjarni> I can't see why that should stop before it's out of ammo
00:58:34  <Bjarni> well, the barrel could overheat, but that's it
00:58:40  <caladan> there are to things to be done
00:58:43  <caladan> 1) reaload bullet
00:58:56  <caladan> 2) fire it, it means hit it's end with hmm "iglica" :D
00:59:15  <caladan> there's a switch, you use it to redirect gases
00:59:28  <caladan> so in semiauto gases from prev bullet do only reload
00:59:55  <caladan> and in auto they also cause next shot
01:00:05  <Bjarni> gasses?
01:00:18  <Bjarni> I think AK-47 is pure mechanical movements
01:00:21  <caladan> nope
01:00:28  <caladan> all auto relies on gasses
01:01:27  * Digitalfox hides before shots are fired..
01:01:30  <Bjarni> it works with bullets containing regular gun powder, right?
01:01:44  <caladan> yep
01:02:02  <Bjarni> the gun powder explodes when hit hard with that metal thing
01:02:10  <caladan> aha
01:02:20  <Bjarni> the metal thing is then pushed backwards when the powder explodes
01:02:29  <Bjarni> where is the gas in this?
01:02:36  <caladan> hmm, not like this
01:02:48  <caladan> you got explosion and the volume of gas increases
01:02:51  <glx> gas propulses bullet
01:02:58  <caladan> it throws the bullet from barrel
01:03:12  <Bjarni> that's an explosion, right
01:03:13  <caladan> the there's a hmmm, pipe from barrel to spring
01:04:01  <caladan> when bullet passes certain point, the gas goes thru that pipe and throws away what was left of ammo, reloads next bullet and if you want full auto, takes that metal thing back
01:04:13  <caladan> and pulled trigger releases it once again
01:05:06  <Digitalfox> When i was doing my time at portugal army, i shot several times with a automatic G3.. And no way most of people can fire more than one bullet in a couple of seconds.. Automatic firing is hard to mantain the G3 in safe position
01:06:02  <caladan> Rifle automatic works on gas returning principle threw the channel in the barrel's wall. Barrel's channel is locked by a turning lock. AK-47 executes single or automatic fire.
01:07:04  <caladan>
01:07:07  <caladan> dodge that :D
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01:08:35  <voodoo070> you're talking bout the same thing
01:08:42  <voodoo070> the explosion = expanding gas
01:08:46  <caladan> yep
01:09:08  <caladan> but look here:
01:09:15  <caladan> <@Bjarni> the metal thing is then pushed backwards when the powder explodes
01:09:15  <caladan> 01:51 <@Bjarni> where is the gas in this?
01:09:29  <voodoo070> gas is everywhere in everything
01:09:36  <voodoo070> if its not we call it vaccuum :P
01:09:38  <Bjarni> now I get it
01:09:45  <caladan> it's not direct explosion that makes it draw back and get another bullet
01:09:50  <Bjarni> voodoo070: I know :P
01:09:59  <caladan> than animation is nice :D
01:10:48  <Bjarni> also it makes more sense this way
01:11:20  <Bjarni> I always wondered how they constructed those metal thingies to move backwards when they don't in normal firearms
01:11:50  <caladan> pistols can also be automatic, like UZI's
01:11:56  <caladan> UZIs, damn... :/
01:12:38  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:12:47  <Bjarni> I know
01:13:00  <Bjarni> but normal firearms needs reloading
01:13:21  <caladan> yep...
01:17:49  <caladan> anyone uses nts3g here?
01:18:18  <caladan> ntfs3g
01:18:20  <Bjarni> the colt pistol (forgot the name), that's famous for the gun from the westerns needed the cock (that's the name of the metal thing... I think) to be pulled backwards each time
01:18:27  <Bjarni> <-- nice video
01:18:59  <Bjarni> they drop an AK47 in water and run it over with a car and it can still shoot
01:19:10  <Bjarni> while being wet
01:19:23  <Bjarni> water running out of it while firing o_O
01:19:24  <caladan> why should it?
01:19:34  <caladan> shouldnt it i meant?
01:20:04  <Bjarni> well, wet powder is of no usage, which actually tells more about the bullets than the gun
01:20:07  <Bjarni> I think
01:20:18  <caladan> true
01:20:21  <Bjarni> being run over tells that the gun can survive stuff
01:20:23  <caladan> and bullets are seled well
01:20:45  <voodoo070> actually water can make more delicate mechanics go wrong, but the gun isnt very delicate
01:20:45  <voodoo070> :P
01:21:15  <Bjarni> water can make it rust, but that's not an issue the same day
01:21:40  <voodoo070> guns need to be cleaned after use anyway
01:22:18  <Bjarni> correction: guns should be cleaned once in a while
01:22:27  <Bjarni> it's not the same as they are cleaned
01:23:51  <voodoo070> if i used 1 in a professional fashion, i'd make sure its clean and functional.. each time :P
01:25:23  <caladan> its more impressive with sand
01:26:47  <Bjarni> hmm
01:26:49  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hmm, does pixel doubling (ctrl+d) in windows not work with fullscreen?
01:27:17  <Bjarni> some guy is desperate. Now I got like 10 mails today telling how to get cheap viagra
01:27:26  <Bjarni> wtf should I buy that for???
01:28:46  <Bjarni> in fact, for all the sender knows about me, I could be a child
01:28:56  <Bjarni> which would make those mails illegal
01:29:11  <Bjarni> they are illegal anyway, but it would make them severely illegal
01:29:53  <Bjarni> not to mention: who would spend money on buying pills on the internet with no info on what they contain at all???
01:30:02  <caladan> hehe
01:30:10  <KeeperOfTheSoul> yay, doubling doesn't work fullscreen, so I havn't broken it :)
01:30:11  <caladan> dont ask us, we get the same mails as you do :P
01:30:20  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i fixed it my resizing issue, now it stores the windowed size seperatly to the fullscreen resolution in windows using directx
01:30:34  * KeeperOfTheSoul is happy, that was anoying me
01:30:49  <Bjarni> *her
01:30:51  <Bjarni> :P
01:32:31  <caladan> hmm, did anyone here use ntfs-3g?
01:32:57  <KeeperOfTheSoul> is there some proper way that I should store video driver capabilities?
01:33:31  <Bjarni> in the cfg file?
01:34:14  <KeeperOfTheSoul> this one isn't configurable, its set by the video driver in XXXStart, at the moment I've just got it as a bool in gfx
01:35:20  <Bjarni> then you decide how to handle your own hack
01:35:52  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i was just checking that there wasn't some official way to do this
01:36:32  <Bjarni> the official way of storing settings is to save them in openttd.cfg
01:36:54  <Bjarni> it can store bools if you like
01:38:11  <KeeperOfTheSoul> but it's not really a setting, i've changed the way the resolution drop-down in the settings works, but the video driver needs to support the change, if it does it sets the flag in XXXStart, if the flag is false then the settings uses the old method of working for other drivers to remain compatible
01:39:10  <Bjarni> so you mean you run a test when starting the game to see if it's supported?
01:39:51  <KeeperOfTheSoul> yup, if not the new method of working wouldn't work, and thus the user wouldn't be able to change the resolution correctly
01:40:36  <Bjarni> well, you figure it out
01:40:39  <Bjarni> I'm out of here
01:40:43  <Bjarni> goodnight
01:40:44  <caladan> me too...
01:40:47  <KeeperOfTheSoul> cya
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01:40:49  <caladan> got to sleep sometimes
01:40:52  <caladan> gn
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04:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause3>
04:29:02  <ln->
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04:35:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8474 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp):
04:35:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
04:35:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Turn GetPrimaryRoadStop() into a method of struct Station
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05:01:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8475 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp):
05:01:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
05:01:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove the unused remnants of blocked_months_obsolete
05:08:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8476 /trunk/src/ (station.h station_cmd.cpp):
05:08:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
05:08:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove the unused remnants of {bus,truck}_stop_status_obsolete
05:08:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: (though I wonder a bit why this information doesn't get converted on load *shrug*)
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05:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause4> ln-: sorry, some keystrokes must have ended up in the wrong window
05:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause4> (in this case a space and return)
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06:25:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8477 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp openttd.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp):
06:25:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
06:25:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove the unnecessary attributes Station::{bus,lorry}_tile_obsolete by replacing them with a scan of the map for existing road stops when loading old savegames
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08:00:33  <Wolf01> morning
08:02:45  <peter1138> yessir
08:11:32  <Maedhros> good morning
08:11:47  <caladan> morning
08:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause4> *yawn*
08:15:49  <caladan> I slept only for 6 hours :/
08:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause4> i didn't
08:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause4> i honestly tried
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09:10:48  <Darkvater> morning
09:12:43  <peter1138> yes
09:16:56  <Darkvater> strange anwser :)
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09:17:56  <Wolf01> yeah, my server is broken -.-
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09:33:04  <Wolf01> wtf? the firewall noticed an attack to the server from the router and blocked it for 2 minutes
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09:38:29  <Darkvater> 10:11 <Darkvater> holy crap
09:38:29  <Darkvater> 10:11 <Darkvater> you were awake at 5am? :O
09:38:40  <Darkvater> eek :O
09:38:42  <Darkvater> bad pasta
09:39:03  <Tron_> 0431
09:39:27  <Darkvater> Tron_: brr
09:39:31  <peter1138> pasta?
09:39:33  <peter1138> oh
09:39:34  <peter1138> paste
09:39:55  <Tron_> mmhhh... pasta
09:40:47  <caladan> im hungry too...
09:40:52  <Darkvater> toothpaste
09:41:02  <caladan> naaah, that aint edible :P
09:41:15  <Tron_> toothpasta?
09:41:40  <Darkvater> I smear it on my bread
09:42:35  <blathijs> "smear" ?
09:43:14  <Darkvater> campaign
09:43:22  <Darkvater> blathijs: so what about freetype support in the debs?
09:43:28  <Darkvater> did you compile it in or not?
09:44:31  <blathijs> not sure, haven't looked yet
09:44:34  <blathijs> I suppose I forgot
09:44:54  <Darkvater> can you look? :)
09:44:54  <Tron_> hm, removing the garbage should've reduced the size of struct Station by whopping 12 bytes
09:45:04  <Darkvater> but it didn't?
09:45:24  <Tron_> it did
09:45:41  <Tron_> it's still 344 bytes large, though (x86)
09:45:51  <Darkvater> the 'hm' and 'should've' were not entirely convincing
09:46:37  <Tron_> there's still much unecessary stuff around
09:47:07  <Tron_> if i'm not mistaken the bounding box of vehicles gets saved twice for special and disaster vehicles
09:48:20  <Darkvater> they are special *g*
09:48:22  * Darkvater hides
09:48:45  <peter1138> GoodsEntry is fairly large itself
09:48:57  <peter1138> and there're 12 of them in Station
09:49:54  <peter1138> some shuffling should reduce that size a bit
09:50:18  <peter1138> 20 bytes on my machine
09:50:37  <peter1138> hmm
09:50:40  <peter1138> ok, it won't
09:50:46  <peter1138> it stores 17 bytes, so...
09:50:56  <peter1138> might do for 64 bit machines though
09:55:50  <Tron_> well, size wasn't the primary concern
09:56:08  <Tron_> i just wanted to remove cruft
09:58:30  <Darkvater> << another convert? *D
10:00:21  <Darkvater> << hmm has "Can flood land by placing buoys on canals
10:00:34  <Darkvater> " been committed by celestar already or not?
10:00:36  <Darkvater> can't quite remember
10:04:59  * peter1138 kicks ci...
10:05:01  <peter1138> ah, not here
10:05:20  <Darkvater> ci?
10:05:25  <Darkvater> cilestar :P
10:05:32  <Tron_> just not in this channel
10:05:44  <peter1138> cia-1
10:05:46  <peter1138> or 2
10:05:48  <peter1138> or... yeah
10:05:54  <Darkvater> ah
10:05:57  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
10:06:01  <_42_> Commit by KUDr :: r8480 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt (2007-01-31 09:54:35 UTC)
10:06:02  <_42_> -Fix [lang]: Error caused by missing case
10:06:30  <Darkvater> why does WT always screw up languages?
10:06:47  <Darkvater> doesn't it have some type of internal integrity check before committing/accepting changes?
10:06:55  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: doesn't it have some type of internal integrity check before committing/accepting changes?
10:07:54  <Tron_> KUDr: i'm not sure if this change is correct
10:08:03  <Tron_> nothing uses this "3sk" case
10:08:09  <Tron_> just one string is defined with it
10:08:34  <KUDr_wrk> Tron_: you are probably right but at least it doesn't produce "Fatal error"
10:08:48  <Tron_> this approach is wrong
10:09:02  <Rubidium> the 'problem' here was that the cases were changed and that WT2 did not check whether the removed cases were actually removed from all strings
10:09:11  <Tron_> it's better if it's broken than something being hidden
10:09:25  <Rubidium> ok, it might be wise to run strgen over all files before committing it though
10:09:53  <Tron_> the slovenian users won't die of some terminal illness if their language isn't supported for a day
10:10:56  <KUDr_wrk> they also won't die if one word has improper case for a while
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10:11:08  <KUDr_wrk> it is problem of slovenian translator
10:11:34  <peter1138> it's like bjarni's default: NOT_REACHED(); return;
10:11:37  <peter1138> hiding errors :)
10:11:58  <KUDr_wrk> MiHaMiX should see it easily if he will want
10:11:59  <Tron_> just let it be broken if you don't know how to fix it
10:12:12  <Bjarni> how can NOT_REACHED() be hiding the problem?
10:13:01  <KUDr_wrk> Tron_: i don't understand you << if i do mistake in trunk, it has highest priority to make it compilable again
10:14:07  <Tron_> pardon?
10:14:15  <Tron_> it works fine without slovenian
10:14:47  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: I don't agree. By hiding the problem it will have a lot less priority to have it fixed, or even see that something is wrong
10:14:48  <KUDr_wrk> Fatal error during build means all is fine?
10:14:54  <Tron_> there's a warning that it's broken, but that's no problem
10:15:14  <Tron_> yes, it means it's totally fine for me to compile ottd
10:15:16  <KUDr_wrk> "Fatal error" is a warning?
10:15:17  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: the only way now to fix it is to continually spam either MiHaMiX or several slovenian translators to fix the problem
10:15:19  <Tron_> it's just one translation
10:15:32  <Tron_> one totally unimportant translation i might add
10:15:39  <Tron_> EVERY translation is unimportant in this context
10:15:42  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: if the language is broken, doesn't compile, the translators will damn fast make sure it works again
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10:15:52  <Tron_> the only file which absolutly mustn't be broken is english.txt
10:16:34  <Tron_> every other language is dispensable
10:16:56  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: for me, if a language fails in msvc I can still run'll complain, would want to recompile the lang and whatever, but after the second try it's just ignored
10:17:14  <KUDr_wrk> it is interesting that now everobody disagrees. In the past when czech translation was broken many people told me "thanks" for fixing it the same way. Now it is not a problem?
10:17:46  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: the makefile has been changed so it doesn't abort the whole thing if a language is broken :)
10:18:03  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: plus you're czech and probably knew what the proper fix was
10:18:53  <KUDr_wrk> from the language perspective i did it correctly, but i dunno what cases were used in the code
10:19:47  <Tron_> which change do you mean? slovenian?
10:19:57  <KUDr_wrk> czech
10:20:18  <Darkvater> although my whole assumption of 'disagreement with KUDr_wrk's change' is based on the fact that tron's objections are valid
10:20:30  <KUDr_wrk> but here in this case the same is valid for slovenian
10:20:42  <KUDr_wrk> yes, i agree
10:21:04  <KUDr_wrk> but still if there is fatal error, there is fatal error
10:21:24  <KUDr_wrk> regardless of recent changes in makefile
10:21:40  <Tron_> valid for slovenian? i'm pretty sure it's wrong
10:22:04  <Tron_> just checked the diffs
10:22:11  <KUDr_wrk> why do you think so? Their language is very similar to czech
10:22:19  <Tron_> the wrong string was added in the same version as the cases where changed
10:22:25  <Tron_> and this case didn't even exist before
10:22:42  <Tron_> plus this case is never used
10:24:23  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: it is a fatal error for slovenian. Compile continues and you can run openttd nevertheless. So it's not really a fatal error
10:26:22  <peter1138> pom te pom
10:27:01  <Tron_> hmmmm
10:27:23  <Tron_> looking at czech the change there proably was wrong, too
10:27:42  <Tron_> only some strings with case "news" and "subs" are defined
10:27:44  <Tron_> but never used
10:28:30  <KUDr_wrk> Tron_: maybe, i didn't tell otherwise
10:28:40  <Darkvater> how do these subcases actually get used?
10:28:47  <Tron_>
10:28:59  <Darkvater> that always puzzled me; does ottd send some subcase to the string subsystem?
10:30:02  <Darkvater> << his first actually enjoyable screen :)
10:30:17  <peter1138> Darkvater: it's magic :)
10:30:31  <peter1138> ah, sergye
10:30:44  <Tron_> the first seven cases look like the seven cases czech has. Some aren't used at all, but that's fine so far
10:30:49  <peter1138> the bus is scaled down i see. still looks shit though
10:31:07  <peter1138> and it suffers from the none-of-it-fits-together problem
10:31:16  <Tron_> big looks like nominative, but with uppercase first letter, that's fine too
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10:31:29  <Darkvater> peter1138: it's not that bad... similar to george's RV
10:31:40  <peter1138> Darkvater: well :P
10:31:48  <Darkvater> ony the internal size-relationships are a bit off
10:31:58  <Darkvater> yeah I know; they look eh... *peep*
10:31:59  <Tron_> but "news" and "subs" look wrong. Only defined strings, but never used
10:32:20  <Tron_> probably nominative can be removed, too, because the un-cased string should be exactly this
10:35:19  <Tron_> is any of the czech translators here atm?
10:37:01  <KUDr_wrk> hadez is cz tran
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10:38:52  <KUDr_wrk> should i send him email?
10:42:15  <Darkvater> czech is wrong?
10:42:47  <roboboy> gnight
10:43:19  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: probably "news" and "subs"
10:43:59  <Darkvater> how do those cases work? or cases in general?
10:44:11  <Darkvater> way too lazy to go dig strgen code atm if somebody knows ;)
10:44:28  <KUDr_wrk> huh, finally i got english.lng compiled (after removing slovenian)
10:45:07  <KUDr_wrk> it is really annoying that i must modify project to compile it
10:45:22  <Darkvater> are you sure?
10:45:25  <Tron_> Darkvater: {} to use case "foo" of the embedded string
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10:45:49  <Darkvater> oh like it's static?
10:45:58  <KUDr_wrk> it didn't produce english pack so it switched to spanish
10:46:05  <Tron_> the Makefile works fine for languages (if it wasn't broken for other reasons)
10:46:24  <KUDr_wrk> who cares about makefiles?
10:46:41  <KUDr_wrk> it doesn't work under VC
10:46:52  <Darkvater> Tron_: so you could actually just drop {} and substitute it by 'Foobar' everywhere
10:47:07  <Tron_> Darkvater: if you wanted to duplicate the using string N times
10:47:14  <Darkvater> good
10:47:17  <Darkvater> I get it now :)
10:47:32  <Tron_> Darkvater: like "$STATION now accepts {}"
10:47:50  <Darkvater> ooh
10:47:51  <Tron_> you'd need this string N times, once for each cargo
10:48:05  <Darkvater> and if you have = ... =
10:48:25  <Darkvater> cool
10:48:51  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: I'll check tonight, but I never had problems with a language not working and english.lng not getting generated
10:49:17  <KUDr_wrk> maybe it is just me, dunno
10:49:40  <KUDr_wrk> but it didn't work so i repaired it and got flamed
10:51:19  <KUDr_wrk> what if the magic formula in .cfg to enable sdl driver?
10:51:28  <KUDr_wrk> if->is
10:51:52  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: you need WITH_SDL as preprocessor define
10:51:57  <KUDr_wrk> i have it
10:52:01  <Darkvater> then just use -v sdl
10:52:07  <Darkvater> or video_driver = sdl
10:52:10  <KUDr_wrk> when runningm ahh so
10:52:15  <KUDr_wrk> thanks
10:52:17  <Darkvater> but don't pin me on the second one
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10:52:49  <KUDr_wrk> "video_driver = blabla" should complain or not?
10:53:02  <Tron_> it won't work
10:53:05  <KUDr_wrk> in [misc]?
10:53:14  <Tron_> it won't work
10:53:19  <KUDr_wrk> but it ignores it
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10:55:21  <Darkvater>    if (dd == NULL)
10:55:22  <Darkvater>       error("No such %s driver: %s\n", dc->name, buffer);
10:55:54  <KUDr_wrk> yes, ("-v blabla" produces this message)
10:56:04  <KUDr_wrk> just in config it is ignored
10:56:25  <Darkvater> that's weird
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11:00:21  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: have it! "videodriver"
11:00:29  <peter1138> heh
11:00:31  <KUDr_wrk> missing '_'
11:00:36  <Darkvater> 11:52 <@Darkvater> but don't pin me on the second one
11:00:41  <KUDr_wrk> yes
11:00:43  <KUDr_wrk> i know
11:00:50  <KUDr_wrk> but i needed it
11:00:57  <Darkvater> but... the option is supposed to be in the config anyways
11:01:04  <Darkvater> with "videodriver = "
11:01:08  <KUDr_wrk> no
11:01:12  <KUDr_wrk> isnt
11:01:17  <KUDr_wrk> small_font =
11:01:18  <KUDr_wrk> medium_font =
11:01:18  <KUDr_wrk> large_font =
11:01:18  <KUDr_wrk> small_size = 6
11:01:18  <KUDr_wrk> medium_size = 10
11:01:19  <KUDr_wrk> large_size = 16
11:01:27  <KUDr_wrk> all options with '_'
11:01:34  <KUDr_wrk> this one not
11:02:14  <Darkvater> ah
11:02:57  <Darkvater> ah, yes of course
11:03:07  <Darkvater> the value is read-only and not saved back
11:03:19  <Darkvater>  SDTG_STR("videodriver",      SLE_STRB,C|S,0, _ini_videodriver
11:03:43  <KUDr_wrk> yes, i found it there :) but still don't understand
11:03:55  <KUDr_wrk> why it was made without '_'
11:04:38  <Darkvater> perhaps ludde ran out of _'s
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11:04:58  <KUDr_wrk> broken keyboard
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11:05:00  <peter1138> maybe it predates everything with _ :)
11:06:16  <Darkvater> B_ :)
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11:26:13  <blathijs> Darkvater: I've been looking and the .debs are without freetype support
11:26:52  <blathijs> Darkvater: I added it, but autodetection fails...
11:27:58  <Darkvater> the debs are compiled binaries, right?
11:28:36  <Darkvater> autodetection on your system fails? Are you sure you have the freetype development libraries?
11:29:00  <blathijs> autodetection fails only when I do the final release build
11:29:06  <Darkvater> :O
11:29:14  <Darkvater> it doesn't fail for debug?
11:29:14  <blathijs> ie, using the build scripts to create a clean chroot
11:29:32  <blathijs> if I run the commands manually, everything seems to be ok
11:29:41  <Darkvater> I'd like an RC5 out by tomorrow or Friday the least
11:29:43  <blathijs> though It's hard to recreate the same environment
11:30:14  <blathijs> Darkvater: I'm trying to pass WITH_FREETYPE=1
11:30:24  <blathijs> Darkvater: just go without autodetection
11:31:44  <Darkvater> blathijs: just don't forget this when you make the RC5 binaries
11:32:01  <Darkvater> would be good to sort out though for the final which if really all is well is 2 weeks away
11:33:14  <Rubidium> hmm, lets backport that pre-join-newgrf check thingy
11:35:05  <blathijs> Darkvater: I have an svn repository for the packaging stuff, so if I commit it I can't forget it
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11:44:11  <blathijs> hmm, that didn't work either :-S
11:46:41  <blathijs> Is fontconfig required for freetype support?
11:46:47  <peter1138> no
11:47:07  <peter1138> but it's useful
11:48:00  <blathijs> k
11:48:50  <blathijs> peter1138: What does it do?
11:49:19  <peter1138> it's the standard font managing system for gnome/kde these days
11:49:39  <peter1138> so using it we can find 'system' fonts easily
11:49:54  <blathijs> right..
12:13:01  <Darkvater> blathijs: it means you can type medium_font = Verdana, Bold
12:13:22  <Darkvater> instead of medium_font = /opt/kde/share/fonts/donnuwhathisis/verdanab.ttf
12:13:30  <Darkvater> or wherever these fonts are kept
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12:16:25  <blathijs> Darkvater: k
12:18:22  <blathijs> ah, it seems forcing with WITH_FREETYPE=1 did work
12:18:31  <blathijs> I tried building i386 instead amd64, though :-)
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12:33:09  <blathijs> Darkvater: Okay, it's fixed. Freetype and fontconfig will be in the rc5 deb
12:34:38  <Darkvater> good :)
12:34:42  <Darkvater> bot x86 and x64?
12:34:52  <blathijs> I presume so (haven't tested x86)
12:34:57  <blathijs> but no reason why it shouldn't
12:35:07  <blathijs> though I can't commit it right now, I just realized
12:35:14  <blathijs> my svn server died in a power surge last week
12:35:21  <Darkvater> lol
12:35:38  <blathijs> I should try booting it again this afternoon, I unplugged the power for a while, which hopefully will fix it
12:35:41  <Darkvater> I'll take your word for it then, just test it before putting the deb online :)
12:36:11  <blathijs> Darkvater: I just plainly forgot adding freetype support in rc4
12:36:19  <Rubidium> blathijs: I think it was rather a short power drop
12:36:32  <blathijs> Rubidium: that's a negative surge? :-P
12:36:44  <Darkvater> blathijs: not blaming or anything :)
12:36:52  <Darkvater> but I do have an appropiate quote to go with
12:37:06  <Darkvater> 21:53 <@Bjarni> but a bit more testing would have been nice
12:37:09  <blathijs> Darkvater: and since my debs are built in a clean debian chroot, there is no way freetype could have snuck in without being in the build dependencies :-)
12:37:13  <blathijs> heeh
12:37:19  <Rubidium> surge is a sudden rise; a surge protector does not protect you from a too low voltage, only a too high voltage
12:37:29  <blathijs> true
12:38:47  <Rubidium> sadly enough I'm familiar with the 'cannot boot computer after short power outage'-problem :(
12:40:32  <blathijs> I was about to brag about the server's uptime when I discovered it turned off by the power drop...
12:41:33  <Rubidium> ah well, 345 days between power loss isn't that bad, especially when it is a very short power loss
12:42:11  <blathijs> oh well
12:42:14  * blathijs is off to lab
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14:37:09  <Bjarni> 	<Rubidium>	surge is a sudden rise; a surge protector does not protect you from a too low voltage, only a too high voltage <--- to protect against too low voltage, you need an UPS
14:37:25  <Bjarni> so it's a matter of how much you will spend on protecting your hardware
14:37:50  <voodoo070> if its truely important you'll have a ups anyway :P
14:38:19  <Bjarni> not unlikely
14:38:20  <Bjarni> bbl
14:38:41  <Maedhros> haha,
14:40:03  <voodoo070> lol :P
14:40:13  <voodoo070> he has 3000,-!
14:40:15  <voodoo070> ;)
14:42:15  <Darkvater> nice budget
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14:51:24  <peter1138> hehe
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15:15:28  <caladan> zalatwilem
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15:18:39  <caladan> 3k$ for such project, who is he? write windows for 3k$ <LOL>
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15:19:30  <Sacro_> caladan: you just seen that?
15:20:39  <caladan> yup
15:21:36  <Darkvater> just looking through random commits
15:21:56  <Darkvater> r8455 atm: int multihead = (rvi->flags&RVI_MULTIHEAD?1:0);  << why not boolise multihead Belugas?
15:23:09  <caladan> and what good would it do?
15:23:49  <Darkvater> int bla = TRUE ? 1 : 0
15:24:02  <Darkvater> that's just bullshit if bla is only used as a boolean
15:24:34  <peter1138> Darkvater: did you lose commit access? ;)_
15:25:23  <Darkvater> just bored at work
15:25:29  <peter1138> is it the weekend yet?
15:25:32  <Darkvater> although
15:25:33  <Darkvater>   SetDParam(1, rvi->weight << multihead);
15:25:41  <peter1138> ah
15:26:05  * Darkvater would've been more glad with int mulithead = flags&multihead? 2 : 1; rvi->weight*multihead
15:26:05  <peter1138> although i'm wondering about removing that, possibly
15:26:27  <Darkvater> I'm gone on Friday though for a week
15:26:37  <Darkvater> I 'ope you guys can survive without me ^^
15:26:40  <peter1138> unlikely
15:27:29  <Darkvater> thought so :)
15:27:38  <Darkvater> just don't kill each other in the meantime
15:27:46  * peter1138 ponders what to merge
15:27:55  <Darkvater> the '?"
15:27:57  <Darkvater> '?'
15:28:01  <Darkvater> so I can backport for RC5
15:29:09  <peter1138> you've got the backport patch ;p
15:29:20  <Darkvater> but I need zh'e reference
15:29:24  <Darkvater> ;p
15:29:46  <Darkvater> anyways...did you see the ingame font-gui?
15:29:51  <peter1138> yes
15:30:02  <peter1138> a real copy of the screen, anyway
15:30:11  <Darkvater> rofl
15:31:07  <Darkvater> not such a bad idea... although imho it is pretty useless
15:31:25  <Darkvater> so much code for a feature that you will use only about one time only
15:31:45  <caladan> Darkvater: true, not used much, but I cant setup right font for polish :/
15:32:00  <caladan> tried that few times, editing .cfg and then running game...
15:32:14  <Darkvater> Maedhros: r8466: const HouseSpec pointers please...
15:32:35  <Darkvater> don't see how that would help you ingame...
15:32:50  <Darkvater> just use Tahoma bold
15:33:16  <caladan> ok, gonna check it
15:33:37  <Maedhros> Darkvater: they're not constant though, i'm changing some of the data they point to...
15:33:38  <Darkvater> windows?
15:33:45  <Darkvater> Maedhros: not in the first loop you aren't
15:33:52  <Maedhros> ah, true
15:36:46  <Darkvater> he r8475, r8476 what's with all these _obsolete member vars in the station struct?
15:39:59  * Darkvater slaps CIA-1
15:40:06  <Darkvater> you bitch, we missed out all of today's commits
15:42:46  <Tron_> i removed them
15:43:22  <Darkvater> I know, just surprised as you were this morning there was so much crud in there
15:43:30  <Darkvater> even marked as crud, yet not removed
15:46:12  <caladan> Darkvater: thx, had some problems with hmm, writing proper font name really...
15:46:21  <Darkvater> caladan: windows?
15:46:33  <caladan> Linux
15:46:42  <caladan> now it's ok
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15:52:46  <caladan> OTTD in polish, strange thing :D
15:57:52  <peter1138> right
15:58:36  <peter1138> there is a developer meeting planned for monday at 2100 UTC
15:58:46  <peter1138> although i think the agenda has yet to be determined, heh
15:59:09  <peter1138> so Darkvater, you'll have to cancel your holiday
15:59:18  <peter1138> assuming it is, heh
16:03:23  <Darkvater> caladan: in linux you need to do Tahoma, Bold
16:03:39  <Darkvater> don't ask me why, but I think rubidium needed that for fontconfig-parsing
16:04:03  <Darkvater> peter1138: really? I seem to have not been invited to this meeting
16:04:24  <Digitalfox> 2100 UTC is what time in GMT?
16:04:24  <Darkvater> is that from t?
16:04:43  <caladan> Darkvater: i did tahomabd.ttf and that worx too
16:04:50  <peter1138> Digitalfox, uh... 2100 GMT...
16:05:59  <Digitalfox> UTC is the same thing has GMT??.. This time conversions i just don't get.. :|
16:06:10  <Darkvater> it's not the same
16:06:20  <Darkvater> if it were the same they wouldn't have different names, would they now?
16:06:44  <Digitalfox> Darkvater: So what's the difference?
16:07:10  <Darkvater> UTC has a 'U' and a 'C' whereas GMT does not
16:07:14  <voodoo070> lol
16:07:23  <Digitalfox> Darkvater: lol
16:07:27  <Darkvater> they do share the similar looking 'T' which could be the source of your confusion
16:07:32  <voodoo070> UTC = atomic time, GMT = astronomic time
16:07:46  <voodoo070> UTC uses extra seconds now and then to make up the difference
16:07:50  <voodoo070> afaik
16:08:06  <peter1138> gah
16:08:06  <Digitalfox> Is there a site where i can make time conversions?
16:08:13  <peter1138> where's the cap for my usb key...
16:08:28  <Darkvater> mktime()
16:10:10  <Digitalfox> Ok i found this one i have to use it.. :)
16:21:02  <TheMask96> -> UTC: Coordinated Universal Time - the international basis for other time zones. Same time as for GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) <- google ;)
16:21:46  <Darkvater> shiitt, forgot to reply to those ppc guys ;O
16:21:57  * Darkvater adds one more item to todo list
16:23:01  * peter1138 has a very important matter
16:23:09  <Darkvater> whohoo spamcound: 618
16:23:13  <peter1138> concerning the welfare of the team
16:23:24  <peter1138> i am going to get some more tea :)
16:23:32  <Darkvater> *hear* *hear*
16:23:47  <Darkvater> get some cookies as well
16:24:02  <Darkvater> "Be sexual giant all night long. "
16:24:20  <Darkvater> "With Ultra Allure Pheromones women will see you in their dreams every night."
16:25:19  <peter1138> crisis over
16:25:42  <Darkvater> I just love spam
16:25:47  <peter1138> where by dreams they mean nightmares?
16:25:51  <Darkvater> "Always wanted to look like a super model. Finally, your dream will come true with Anatrim."
16:26:01  <Darkvater> Anatrim + Ultra Allure
16:26:06  <Darkvater> teh pwn!
16:27:53  <Darkvater> kk, going home :)
16:27:56  <peter1138> bye
16:28:01  <Darkvater> anatrim!!!
16:28:06  <Darkvater> bye
16:28:13  <Belugas> if it's not making babies sleep tight, it's not worth it
16:29:05  <Belugas> bye Darkvater
16:32:58  <peter1138> gah, i need to pgp encrypt from within asp :/
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16:39:50  <peter1138> meah
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16:45:17  <Wolf01> bbl
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16:50:27  <Ailure> fgdsafdfdsfdsfdsafdsf
16:50:31  <Ailure> stupi newGRF window
16:50:36  <Ailure> I always forget about that save changes button
16:52:06  <Ailure> testing aviator set D:
16:52:14  <Ailure> saw that modern zeppeliners was added
16:52:28  <Ailure> which is quite realistic as I heard that they might be used for freight again
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16:57:25  <Neonox> Tron : Ping
17:02:39  <Maedhros> can someone check this patch please? it
17:03:05  <Maedhros> it's a fix for
17:03:14  <Maedhros>
17:06:44  <Tron_> +		/* XXX: Remove */
17:06:45  <Tron_> ?
17:07:31  <Maedhros> well, it was to make sure i hadn't done anything stupid, but i didn't think it should be committed
17:11:20  <Tefad> the improved loading algorithm seems to have problems when there are quite a few engines in a train
17:12:00  <Tefad> i'm using NAR grf and the double decker passenger is made like an engine
17:12:12  <peter1138> known
17:12:14  <Tefad> ah ok.
17:12:35  <peter1138> first one is known, second is fixed
17:12:47  <Tefad> my train has stream engine with tender then 21 cars (engines)
17:12:52  <Tron_> peter1138: known?
17:12:55  <Tefad> is it supposed to be an engine?
17:22:47  <peter1138> mainly with gradual loading
17:22:59  <peter1138> causing longer delays at stations
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17:23:21  <peter1138> Tefad: what revision?
17:25:18  <Brianetta> "Improved" loading has problems when you have more than one mode of transport, type of cargo, or even just believe that more than two platforms buys you any favours...
17:26:39  * Maedhros plans to add real fifo loading at some point
17:26:49  <Maedhros> i think KUDr might as well...
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17:31:53  <Wolf01> evening
17:32:24  <Tefad> i have 8437
17:33:54  <Tefad> 1020 passengers and 204 bags of mail per train.. weee
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17:38:23  <MeusH> hello
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17:52:43  <Brianetta>
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17:54:40  <Maedhros> hehe, nice
17:59:56  <Tefad> oh i see now
18:00:10  <Tefad> why the hell are there "engines" as double decker passenger
18:00:14  <Tefad> there's also a car
18:01:57  <Bjarni> what?
18:02:20  <Bjarni> are you talking about the bug in the nightly build from last night?
18:02:32  <Bjarni> some wagons turned into locomotives
18:02:42  <guru3> lol
18:03:10  <Tefad> i don't know
18:03:13  <Bjarni> I specially like the passenger car from the DB XL set, that turned into a steam locomotive and started making steam puffs
18:03:14  <Tefad> i've had this running for a few days
18:03:32  <Bjarni> it lacked power though, so it could not move on it's own, but it could be pushed
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18:03:55  <Tefad> double decker with 1hp and 0kN TE
18:04:06  <Tefad> also a snow plough
18:04:11  <Tefad> or plow.. whatever
18:05:16  <peter1138> the snow plough is normal
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18:08:31  <peter1138> if it has 1 hp, it's supposed to be like that
18:08:38  <peter1138> if it has 0 hp, it's supposed to be a wagon, heh
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18:08:53  <Tefad> hmm i'm wondering why the double decker has 1hp then
18:09:05  <Tefad> "bi-level passenger carriage"
18:09:26  <Brianetta> plow is US spelling
18:09:31  <MeusH> maybye there is a horse attached to the wagon?
18:09:42  <MeusH> it happens that Germans loose current in overhead wires
18:09:52  <MeusH> and this is where horses start pulling wagons
18:09:56  <Brianetta> I suppose I'd better go home
18:09:59  <Tefad> this is supposed to be american set
18:10:03  <Tefad> but it's spelled snowplough
18:10:07  <MeusH> a steam is... well, horses eat and return things, too :p
18:10:09  <Tefad> so i was slightly confused
18:10:09  <peter1138> wait?
18:10:11  <peter1138> in NARS?
18:10:21  <Tefad> yeah
18:10:37  <Tefad> i think my language is set to "american"
18:10:37  <peter1138> i don't remember NARS having a double decker carriage
18:10:42  <Tefad> hmm
18:10:46  <Tefad> it's NAR something
18:11:08  <Tefad> North American Renewal Trainset
18:11:28  <Tefad> there's a doodlebug
18:12:56  <peter1138> ah, bi-level passenger carraige
18:13:00  <peter1138> i remember wrong :)
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18:16:38  <peter1138> ...
18:16:40  <peter1138> still compiling :/
18:18:07  <peter1138> ah
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18:18:53  <peter1138> interesting
18:19:01  <peter1138> there are *two* bilevel passenger carriages...
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18:20:40  <Gonozal_VIII> quadlevel?
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18:20:55  <peter1138> and, indeed, there is in 0.5.0-RC4
18:21:02  <mikk36> lol
18:21:16  <mikk36> i shouldn't be on the net now :D
18:21:23  <mikk36> that's what the isp told me
18:21:36  <mikk36> that the signal is so weak that i should not be able to be on the net :)
18:21:40  <peter1138> Tefad: i think it's a NARS "feature"
18:24:02  <peter1138> although it's strange
18:24:11  <peter1138> cos there are no engines for it
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18:56:33  <Tefad> neat
18:57:32  <Darkvater> back
19:00:43  <Belugas> welcome, back
19:00:52  <Belugas> welcome Bach
19:01:02  <Belugas> well, come, Back
19:01:13  <Belugas> her...
19:01:31  <Belugas> can't find anything else non-intelligent to say :S
19:02:06  <Darkvater> beee
19:02:10  <Maedhros> haha, could be worse :p
19:02:30  <Darkvater>
19:02:32  <Darkvater> lolol
19:03:13  <Tefad> whoa no more phantom oil rigs eh
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19:08:56  <hylje> wtf :D
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19:10:16  <Belugas> hehe "oh screw it... i'm off to walk the dog..."  Such a valid argument :)  so strong !
19:10:47  <Maedhros> any objections to
19:11:02  <Maedhros> going to be fun to backport to 0.5 though...
19:11:04  <Darkvater> Belugas: he does have a point though!
19:11:29  <Darkvater> Maedhros: what does it fix?
19:11:38  <Darkvater> eh nvm
19:11:40  <Darkvater> you can't backport it
19:11:47  <Belugas> what?  the legality of OTTD or the urge to walk the dog?
19:12:11  <Rubidium> Darkvater: actually you can, by misusing some SLE_CONDNULL
19:12:12  <Darkvater> the point that locomotion is more moddable needs to walk the dog
19:12:21  <Darkvater> or something
19:12:28  <Belugas> hehe
19:12:48  <peter1138> more moddable?
19:12:51  <peter1138> it's rubbish
19:13:03  <Belugas> but Dalestan had a point too.  AFAIK, you can only modd the vehicles
19:13:14  <Belugas> but i've not been far in locomotion,
19:13:24  <Belugas> althoug i have to admit, i like the graphics
19:13:24  <peter1138> no varactions!
19:13:44  <Belugas> but i've been known to not be very sane :S
19:13:50  <Darkvater> Rubidium: no you can't backport it. If you load this game with version 45 the bridges won't be updated for example. If you make it version <next-0.5> you'll get clashes with <next-0.5> of trunk
19:14:11  *** Darkvater changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC4 | Locomotion sucks
19:14:23  <Rubidium> you do not necessarily need to increase the savegame version
19:14:25  <caladan> yeeeeeee, i agrrrree :D
19:14:47  *** Darkvater changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.0-RC4 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
19:15:03  <Darkvater> Rubidium: looking at the diff he has to
19:15:34  <Darkvater> but I don't consider this backport-worthy
19:15:44  <Darkvater> requires way too much manual intervention to make it work
19:16:09  <Darkvater> I like this though:
19:16:10  <Darkvater> -	LS_CARGO_PAID_FOR,
19:16:11  <Darkvater> +	LS_CARGO_PAID_FOR, // Obselete, as the amount paid for is now stored in v->cargo_paid_for.
19:16:19  <Darkvater> so it's obsolete, but still there ;p
19:16:47  <Maedhros> shall i just remove it and CLRBIT(v->load_status, 2) then?
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19:17:54  <Darkvater> commentatorised, but yes
19:17:58  <peter1138> what you could do
19:18:04  <peter1138> instead of saving state
19:18:16  <peter1138> is do money stuff during unloading
19:18:42  <peter1138> for each step
19:19:43  <peter1138> but keep a running total that's used for display when unloading finishes
19:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause4> so for a wagon carrying 30 units, you would get 6 "income" messages?
19:20:02  <peter1138> this running total could possibly be wrong on loading a game, but it's only for display
19:20:34  <Maedhros> leaving stations isn't too well defined though, as far as i remember
19:21:08  <blathijs> "not too well defined" is an understatement
19:21:29  <peter1138> doesn't matter
19:21:40  <blathijs> I've implemented fifo loading once, and that was the most work: Finding all the places in the code where trains might decide to leave a station :-)
19:21:57  <peter1138> if (orderstatuschanges && running total > 0) { show(running total); running total = 0; }
19:22:53  <Maedhros> everywhere in the code that causes trains to leave the station?
19:23:29  <peter1138> i don't know
19:23:31  <peter1138> i'm meta-coding
19:23:38  <peter1138> just an idea
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19:25:59  <blathijs> Maedhros: Just call TrainLeavesStation() at all those places and put the stuff in that funciton
19:26:03  <blathijs> or something like that
19:27:05  <Maedhros> hmm, could do
19:27:23  <Maedhros> next question - is it worth it? ;)
19:28:04  <blathijs> Maedhros:
19:28:21  <Maedhros> blathijs: cool, thanks
19:28:21  <blathijs> Maedhros: I created a function Fifo_EnterStation and Fifo_LeaveStation
19:28:39  <blathijs> it's agains r148, though
19:28:44  <Darkvater> well at least syn with KUDr as well
19:28:49  <blathijs> so you might have to do some searching :-)
19:29:08  <peter1138> ok
19:29:12  <peter1138> overtime or ottd time?
19:29:19  <Darkvater> go home
19:29:21  <peter1138> i am
19:29:40  <Darkvater> how does overtime fit into that
19:29:46  <peter1138> i can work from home
19:29:52  <Darkvater> ah
19:29:57  <Darkvater> do they pay you extra?
19:30:00  <peter1138> yes
19:30:24  <Darkvater> hmm, suboptimal
19:30:32  <blathijs> just extra hours, or also extra per hour?
19:30:41  <Darkvater> at work you can do ottd and you get paid, at home you have to do real work to get paid
19:30:43  <peter1138> both
19:30:48  <peter1138> heh
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19:33:39  * peter1138 ponders doing ottd and still claiming overtime...
19:34:53  <Darkvater> oi. isn't that risky?
19:35:02  <Darkvater> or you just vpn in and idle...
19:35:04  *** thunder1 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:35:22  <Bjarni> ok, now I managed to make a statically linked OpenTTD, which relies on my homebuild freetype lib
19:35:40  <Belugas> [14:35] <@Darkvater> or you just vpn in and idle...  <---- Hey!  That's MY job!
19:35:45  <Darkvater> does it show the glyphs properly? :)
19:35:52  <Bjarni> this one *should* look nice with the Japanese stuff
19:36:00  <Darkvater> *should* eh?
19:36:06  <Darkvater> please test :)
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19:36:13  <Darkvater> Belugas: he
19:36:14  <peter1138> we don't like testing
19:36:17  <Darkvater> buncha freeloaders
19:36:18  <Bjarni> I don't know Japanese, so I don't know if the letters are printed right :P
19:36:23  <Darkvater> :O
19:36:34  <KeeperOfTheSoul> should i just delete the line: STR_4803_POWER_STATION.3sk from slovenian.txt?
19:36:35  <Bjarni> but it's the version this Japanese guy recommended
19:37:03  <Bjarni> and it appears to work well with latin letters
19:37:10  <Bjarni> how else am I going to test this?
19:37:15  <Darkvater> Bjarni: << here your reference
19:37:44  <Bjarni> maybe I should try ????.ttf and see what happens
19:37:47  <Darkvater> KeeperOfTheSoul: it's not used is it?
19:38:43  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i have no idea, but it chokes when compiling, and there is an identical line above without the .3sk
19:38:54  <Darkvater> are you a slovenian translator?
19:39:23  <KeeperOfTheSoul> nope, i just want to complile it, so i was wondering if it were safe to remove it
19:39:31  <Darkvater> just disable the language
19:41:28  <KeeperOfTheSoul> how do I do that?
19:41:30  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
19:41:40  <Darkvater> properties > don't compile
19:42:00  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...]
19:42:53  <peter1138> here, and, now
19:43:45  <Darkvater> gimp: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open
19:43:48  <Darkvater> hurray?
19:44:00  <Darkvater> what kind of a crap packet managment program is this?
19:45:50  <peter1138> crap packets!
19:46:30  <hylje> :o
19:46:49  <Darkvater> tfarago@arrakis:~> find /opt -iname *gimpwidget*so* 2> /dev/null
19:46:49  <Darkvater> /opt/gnome/lib/
19:46:49  <Darkvater> /opt/gnome/lib/
19:46:52  <peter1138> a sergey post :D
19:46:56  <Darkvater> => not found
19:46:57  <peter1138> more real copies
19:47:00  <Darkvater>" target="_blank"> => /opt/gnome/lib/" target="_blank"> (0xb7cc5000)
19:47:01  <Bjarni> I think it works like it should. I think this guy uses a font that I lack though, but when I compare the individual letters to how they are drawn by the OS, they look ok
19:47:10  <Darkvater> ok what am I missing here?
19:47:18  <Bjarni> and readable
19:47:19  *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:47:21  <Darkvater> Bjarni: screenshot?
19:47:30  <Bjarni> sure
19:47:33  <Bjarni> one moment
19:47:35  <peter1138> The appearance of a skin is shown on a real copy of the screen
19:47:37  <peter1138> heeeeeeh
19:47:52  <Darkvater> so it finds one so but not the other in the same directory?
19:47:55  * Darkvater is puzzled
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19:50:00  <Bjarni>
19:50:01  <Darkvater> o_O
19:50:08  <Darkvater> I needed to execut ldconfig....again
19:50:32  <Darkvater> Bjarni: doesn't look good
19:50:32  <Bjarni> is this ok... your guess is as good as mine
19:50:44  <Bjarni> I think it's a bad font
19:50:51  <blathijs> Bjarni: It still looks like gibberish ;-p
19:50:51  <Bjarni> it looks the same at the OS level
19:50:57  <Bjarni> yeah
19:50:59  <Bjarni> totally
19:51:12  <peter1138> the NewGRF text should look clearer
19:51:17  <Darkvater> It doesn't work with English either - that is why I tried using Chalkboard first. Both machines are PowerPCs (one G3, one G4) running 10.4.8.
19:51:20  <peter1138> and the OpenTTD, heh
19:51:24  <Darkvater> oh wait
19:51:24  <Bjarni> it looks like I only got one Asian font, so testing more than one is kind of tricky
19:51:28  <peter1138> amd the console
19:51:34  <Darkvater> /System/Library/Fonts/Hiragino Marugo Pro W4.otf << do this one
19:51:44  <Bjarni> I think the Japanese guy decided to install the full Asian font package. I didn't
19:52:25  <Darkvater> I don't think you have the byte-interpreter enabled in freetype
19:53:28  <Bjarni> how do I control that?
19:54:30  <Bjarni> is it a compile time setting?
19:54:37  <Bjarni> I mean when compiling the lib
19:55:22  <peter1138> yes
19:55:26  <Ailure> :o
19:55:27  <peter1138> i think ;p
19:55:41  <Ailure> I really need to start with C++ programming
19:56:16  <Darkvater> Bjarni:
19:59:23  <Darkvater> god, why does gimp suck so much?
19:59:34  <Bjarni> hmm
19:59:55  <Bjarni> where did you find this piece of code?
20:00:43  <Bjarni> and what specifically do I need to do to enable this?
20:01:14  <Darkvater> *faint*
20:01:19  <Darkvater> it's in the freetype source code
20:01:29  <Darkvater> and enable the define OBVIOUSLY
20:01:48  <Darkvater> or read the readme
20:01:56  <Darkvater> cause I might remember incorrectly
20:02:14  <Bjarni> what is a readme?
20:02:16  <Bjarni> :P
20:02:21  <peter1138> figures
20:02:52  <Bjarni> I was joking
20:04:45  *** Sillium [] has joined #openttd
20:04:56  *** Sillium [] has quit []
20:07:25  <peter1138> do it
20:09:55  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Quit: Logout]
20:11:28  <Bjarni> ok, now I will try to make a new build of OpenTTD
20:11:32  <Bjarni> let's see what happens
20:11:41  <hylje> :o
20:19:49  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
20:20:25  <Bjarni> <-- here we go again
20:20:26  <Bjarni> same font
20:20:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8497 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp variables.h): -Codechange: Increase the size of the sound/video/music-drivers to 32 bytes (instead of 16) so their actual parameters can be passed. Sound has for example 'bufsize' and 'hz'. Also use the recently introduced StrEmpty().
20:20:49  <peter1138> crapper
20:20:57  <peter1138> hehe
20:21:05  <peter1138> i came across that problem too :D
20:21:14  <Darkvater> it looks even crappier
20:21:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: what'd you do?
20:21:31  <Darkvater> Bjarni: try the font the guy suggested
20:21:32  <peter1138> nothing
20:21:41  <Darkvater> he
20:21:41  <peter1138> i think i changed it to 32 somewhere
20:21:49  <peter1138> or
20:21:51  <Darkvater> oh that, I thought the font
20:21:51  <peter1138> hardcoded the parameter :P
20:22:01  <peter1138> damn
20:22:01  <Darkvater> peter1138: no you 32'd it in the sdlmixer one
20:22:04  <peter1138> i've done the worst thing:
20:22:07  <peter1138> no work, and no ott
20:22:09  <peter1138> +d
20:22:15  <peter1138> ah
20:22:25  <Darkvater> I couldn't figure out for about an hour why it wouldn't accept the parameters :(
20:22:35  <Darkvater> went all down on the code until I discovered it just didn't fit
20:23:06  <Darkvater> Bjarni: try it with the font the guy suggested and if that doesn't help just post both binaries online and see what he gets
20:23:10  <peter1138> oo er
20:23:12  <peter1138> lucky code
20:23:24  * peter1138 grows up
20:23:43  <Darkvater> < puzzled@peter
20:23:43  * Sacro_ doesnt grow up and sniggers
20:23:47  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
20:23:48  *** Tron_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:24:38  * Belugas thinks Darkvater should improve his knowledge on music, Peter Gabriel, for instance...
20:25:26  <peter1138> and the BULGE
20:25:37  <peter1138> in my big big big big big big big big BIG
20:25:55  <Belugas> TIME
20:26:11  <Darkvater> this does not help my puzzling
20:26:15  <KeeperOfTheSoul> anyone noticed that switching between fullscreen/windowed makes other program windows slowly creap across the screen?
20:26:23  <hylje> xbox hueg
20:26:53  <hylje> KeeperOfTheSoul: windows are generally rendered lazily
20:28:01  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hylje: I don't mean inside ttd, I mean other windows, if i keep fullscreening/un-fullscreening ttd things like irc slowly make their way to the bottom right corner of the screen?
20:28:35  <hylje> i was talking generally
20:28:47  <hylje> and wtf are you constantly fullscreening and back
20:28:51  <hylje> use windowed mode
20:28:55  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hmm, maybe they always do that then :)
20:29:04  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hylje: I was testing a change I made
20:29:27  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i prefer fullscreen as then i can run it at a lower res, otherwise everything is too small
20:30:13  <KeeperOfTheSoul> the trouble I found is that if you resize the window when in windowed mode it would change the fullscreen resolution and I would have to set it again in the options
20:30:23  <Bjarni>
20:30:24  <Bjarni>
20:30:30  <hylje> i enjoy my 133dpi display
20:30:35  <KeeperOfTheSoul> which was anoying as the options didn't list my resoltion (turns out its a 32bpp only resoltion)
20:30:35  <Bjarni> I finally managed to actually getting it to accept that font
20:30:51  <peter1138> Bjarni: wow, it changes the tiles too
20:30:57  <hylje> and i run ottd in a smallish window
20:31:08  <peter1138> i run ottd at 800x600
20:31:12  <Bjarni> looks like my editor (3rd party one) do not work well with Japanese chars
20:31:14  <hylje> fullscreen is a waste of screen estate
20:31:20  <hylje> unless it can be put to use
20:31:22  <peter1138> full screen, on a 21" monitor
20:31:26  <peter1138> but, hey, i'm blind :P
20:31:27  <hylje> :o
20:31:35  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hylje: but I can't read anything when running at 1920x1200
20:31:47  <hylje> im on a 1600x1200 res, 15,4"
20:31:55  <hylje> i can read stuff perfectly
20:31:59  <caladan> Hmm, i use 1280x1024 and that fits fine on 19"
20:32:03  <Darkvater> how does it change tiles?
20:32:06  <Bjarni> for the record: I selected this resolution for making those screenshots. I'm not using it normally
20:32:10  <peter1138> Darkvater: poor joke
20:32:20  <Bjarni> I just wanted something smaller when uploading it
20:32:32  <peter1138> caladan: bah, x960
20:32:38  <peter1138> 1024's the wrong size ;p
20:32:40  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i find it a little troubling to do things like seeing signals near stations when there is a lot there, i just can't see them, and i can't zoom in anymore
20:32:46  <peter1138> unless it's a tft
20:32:53  *** gass [~any@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:32:53  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hence I like to drop to a lower res
20:33:00  <caladan> i have got 4:3 screen, not 16:9
20:33:09  <Darkvater> Bjarni: it seems the built-in bytecode interpreter does a decent job, so it doesn't really matter it seems
20:33:10  <Bjarni> however now I wonder. I can't tell the difference between the bytecode one and the non-bytecode one
20:33:11  <peter1138> yeah, then 1280x960 is correct
20:33:20  <hylje> caladan: 1280x1024 is 5:4
20:33:31  <Darkvater> Bjarni: I wonder what was wrong with the shared lib...must be a really crappy one that's shipped with OSX
20:33:47  <caladan> ok, i mean hmmm, that normal, old screen type
20:33:52  <hylje> bytecode, for what?
20:34:02  <Bjarni> it's an old version that ships with OSX
20:34:05  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
20:34:11  <Bjarni> now I downloaded the source for the newest version
20:34:13  <MeusH> hmm
20:34:15  <MeusH> hello again
20:34:30  <Bjarni> newest stable, that is
20:34:32  <MeusH> is it possible to remove a file from CD-RW without completly erasing the CD?
20:34:40  * peter1138 switches to 1600x1200 for "fun"
20:34:46  <MeusH> or it would be just a quick delete from TOC?
20:34:51  <Bjarni> MeusH: no, not if you already recorded it
20:34:52  <MeusH> like in plain CD-Rs?
20:35:02  <MeusH> thank you
20:35:14  <KeeperOfTheSoul> which one is prefered, sourceforge patch tracker or flyspray?
20:35:20  <hylje> fs
20:35:51  <blathijs> Maedhros: Is my diff any help?
20:36:46  <Maedhros> blathijs: it's interesting, but i think it's persuaded me that for this fix, it's easier to save the variable :)
20:36:52  <Darkvater> KeeperOfTheSoul: fs
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20:38:00  <blathijs> Maedhros: what variable, exactly?
20:38:01  <Bjarni> Darkvater: now I wonder. Should I try to make a universal lib with the bytecode enabled or just use the one I already got, where I didn't enable it?
20:38:04  <Bjarni> the latter is easier ;)
20:38:04  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:38:08  <Bjarni> but it looked like it mattered to the first font, but that font appeared to suck anyway
20:38:20  *** KritiK [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:38:28  <Maedhros> blathijs: v->cargo_paid_for (see
20:38:41  <Darkvater> it's up to you whether you dare use patented code ;)
20:38:58  <Bjarni> good point
20:39:06  <Bjarni> then I will just use the lib I already got
20:40:23  <Darkvater> I would opt for the eh bytecode one
20:40:47  <Bjarni> well
20:40:53  * peter1138 watches as apple smacks down on bjarni
20:41:04  <Darkvater> hehe
20:41:05  <Darkvater> although
20:41:17  <Bjarni> I lack a universal lib with the bytecode enabled. I already got the other one
20:41:21  *** gass [~any@] has joined #openttd
20:41:31  <Bjarni> which means it's a great timesaver to use the one I already got
20:41:31  * peter1138 idly forgets about atari, or whoever :P
20:41:32  <Darkvater> if you use freetype 2.2.3 (latest, released in january) they say they've done a great job improving the unpatented-interpreter
20:41:54  <Bjarni> I'm using 2.3.0
20:42:23  <Darkvater> I am kinda glad Apple is not as big as MS. Looking at all the news I've been reading about them they would be even worse
20:42:27  <Darkvater> eh I mean 2.3.1 :)
20:42:38  <Darkvater> This is a bugfix release for version 2.3.0. All users should upgrade. See this page for the release notes.
20:42:54  <Bjarni> crap
20:42:59  <Darkvater> haha
20:43:01  <Bjarni> then I should make a new lib anyway
20:43:13  <Darkvater>     - The TrueType interpreter sometimes returned incorrect horizontal
20:43:14  <Darkvater>       metrics due to a bug in the handling of the SHZ instruction.
20:43:26  <Darkvater>     - A typo  in  a  security  check  introduced  after  version 2.2.1
20:43:26  <Darkvater>       prevented FreeType to render some glyphs in CFF fonts.
20:44:08  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47:00  <Bjarni> 2.3.1 is released today
20:47:43  * peter1138 releases bjarni
20:48:11  <Darkvater> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
20:48:46  <peter1138> oh
20:48:55  * glx still using 2.2.1 and goes to update it
20:48:55  <Bjarni> it was released 12 hours and 40 minutes ago
20:49:10  <Bjarni> I think Darkvater just realised something bad
20:49:28  <Darkvater> that you have been unleashed upon us
20:49:32  <Darkvater> eh
20:49:42  <Darkvater> that you got beenunleashed upon us
20:49:46  <Darkvater> ' '
20:49:47  <Darkvater> there
20:49:53  <Bjarni> you have known that for ages by now
20:50:38  <peter1138> hmm, very near r8500
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20:59:40  <KeeperOfTheSoul> i guess patches need to be confirmed before they show up in flyspray?
20:59:41  *** scia [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:00:19  <peter1138> no
21:00:29  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hmm, odd, maybe it didn't post then?
21:01:33  <KeeperOfTheSoul> ahh, that search box searches who it assigned to, not who raised it, heh
21:01:45  <KeeperOfTheSoul> yay for random unlabed boxes :)
21:03:24  <KeeperOfTheSoul> gah, dam it, it was ment to be filed as a patch, not a bug
21:03:45  <Wolf01> what is the function to get the coordinates from a tile?
21:04:06  <peter1138> TileX(tile) and TileY(tile)
21:04:11  <Wolf01> thanks
21:04:35  *** dfox [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05:10  <peter1138> arg fucking el
21:05:29  <peter1138> bashed my head on my printer
21:05:37  <peter1138> and it's an HP LJ4...
21:06:27  <KeeperOfTheSoul> is anyone around who can fix my balls up and change this to a patch?
21:06:31  <Wolf01> now you have a photo of yours :D
21:06:38  *** Dextro [~dextro@] has joined #openttd
21:06:54  <Wolf01> *you should have
21:07:04  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
21:07:22  <Wolf01> when i kick my printer it prints shoes
21:07:42  <peter1138> this prints fuck all
21:07:52  <peter1138> the toner cartridge needs replacing
21:08:21  <KeeperOfTheSoul> don't complain, i have an epson stylus here, all it seems to print is ink, everytime you turn it on, it just eats the stuff
21:09:46  <peter1138> it's spelt separate, by the way
21:09:46  <Wolf01> what a printer is assumed to print?
21:10:03  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:10:56  <KeeperOfTheSoul> dam it, why don't IDEs come with a spell checker
21:10:59  <blathijs> Maedhros: Don't you still need to find all places where trains might leave a station?
21:11:04  <blathijs> Maedhros: to display the money?
21:12:54  <Maedhros> blathijs: not with that patch. i do if i rewrite it to use peter1138's method
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21:15:27  <Bjarni>
21:15:28  <Bjarni>
21:15:34  <Bjarni>
21:15:36  <Bjarni> same font
21:15:38  <Bjarni> looks ok
21:15:48  <Bjarni> well, maybe not Russian, but the rest
21:16:21  <Bjarni> any Russians in here?
21:16:50  <Tron> the russian font is monospaced
21:17:00  <Tron> the english one is a proportional font
21:17:11  <glx> russian font looks weird
21:18:11  <peter1138> OpenTTO ?
21:18:26  <Bjarni> it's a soft D
21:18:30  <Bjarni> not O :P
21:18:53  <Bjarni> can I add arguments to the fonts to make them bold?
21:19:06  <peter1138> , bold
21:19:49  <peter1138> tahoma's russian looks nicer
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21:20:42  <Bjarni> tahoma is not installed by default in OSX
21:21:34  <Bjarni> , bold is not working :(
21:22:12  <peter1138> Arial Unicode MS works ok
21:22:17  <peter1138> no bold with that though
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21:23:03  <Bjarni> heh, I lack that font
21:23:06  <Bjarni> figures :P
21:23:09  <peter1138> yeah
21:23:13  <peter1138> we should distribute it
21:23:21  <peter1138> it's only 23MB
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21:24:07  <Tron> you may not distribute Arial
21:24:20  <Bjarni> the font I just used in the screenshots is only 9,6 mb
21:24:26  <Bjarni> Tron: I think it was a joke
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21:24:56  <Tron> i just wanted to make sure nobody gets ideas
21:25:01  <Bjarni> heh
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21:25:13  <Tron> most things concerning fonts are ... hairy
21:25:48  <peter1138> :)
21:26:15  <Tron> well, Simutrans has some fonts
21:26:55  <Tron> cyrillic bdf font, only 26k
21:27:05  <Tron> some japanese font, 990k
21:27:11  <Tron> bdf, too
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21:27:55  <Tron> we could also compress them
21:28:15  <Tron> 4,1k resp. 142k with gzip
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21:31:26  <Tron> (gzip comes for free with zlib)
21:32:31  * peter1138 wonders if freetype can load gzipped fonts directly
21:32:54  <peter1138> probably
21:35:08  <KeeperOfTheSoul> is there a way to apply patches to arbitry files in tortoise svn?
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21:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8498 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp openttd.cpp):
21:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
21:38:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move the update of the oil rig airport type to the recently (r8485) added loop
21:39:32  <Bjarni> <--- nobody commented on this diff?
21:39:54  <Bjarni> last chance. No comments means no objections :)
21:41:23  <Darkvater> Bjarni: !!!!!!!!!!!1
21:41:24  <Darkvater> +# OSX got freetype by default, while
21:42:14  <Sacro> Bjarni: i object
21:42:50  <Bjarni> Sacro: nobody cares about your talent for objections
21:42:55  <Sacro> :o
21:43:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8499 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp:
21:43:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
21:43:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (?): When removing an oil rig replace the station tile by water, not bare land
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21:46:08  <Bjarni> # OSX always have freetype, even though it can be failed to be detected with our previous test
21:46:08  <Bjarni> # fontconfig is also present by default, but the default one is too old for OpenTTD
21:46:08  <Bjarni> # if the user installed a newer one, he/she can modify Makefile.config to enable it
21:46:10  <Bjarni> better?
21:46:27  <Darkvater> NO
21:46:29  <Maedhros> always has!
21:46:41  <Darkvater> "it can be failed to be detected" ??
21:47:01  <Bjarni> yeah... that detection previously fails to work on OSX for some reason
21:47:08  <Darkvater> no
21:47:10  <Darkvater> that is not english
21:47:26  <Sacro> Bjarni isnt english...
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21:48:16  <Bjarni> , even though it can fail to be detected with our previous test
21:48:36  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni isnt english... <-- isn't English
21:48:37  <Bjarni> :P
21:49:11  <Sacro> [21:48] <<Bjarni>> <Sacro> Bjarni isnt english... <-- isn't English <-- isn't English.
21:49:20  <Bjarni> good point
21:49:29  <Sacro> the point is what ends the sentance
21:50:06  <Wolf01> Sacro, sentence
21:50:17  <Sacro> Wolf01: nevar!
21:50:56  <Bjarni> Wolf01: he is from Hull. Sentence there means sentenced to jail
21:51:02  <Bjarni> so it's a taboo word
21:51:08  * Wolf01 write in the notebook a new english rule: the second E in a word should be an A
21:51:13  <Bjarni> even though it happens to most of them all the time
21:51:38  <Bjarni> eek
21:51:42  <Bjarni> oh wait
21:51:44  <Bjarni> eak
21:51:48  <Wolf01> :)
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21:54:14  <Bjarni> <-- so, do you approve now?
21:56:13  <Darkvater> better
21:57:21  <Bjarni> to be honest, I will not bother spending a great deal of time investigating why the test fails on OSX when I know this will work and that the makefile rewrite solved it, so it's an 0.5 issue only
21:57:25  <Wolf01> there is somebody who can help me?
21:57:25  <Wolf01> i can't figure out where is the error, but i'm sure that it passes both the first 3 tests in the tile loop
21:58:00  <Bjarni> "passes both the first 3 tests"?
21:58:09  <Wolf01> ehm...all
21:58:28  <Wolf01> i was writing 2, but i noticed they are 3
21:59:12  <Wolf01> (but the first one should be removed)
21:59:49  <Bjarni> err
21:59:58  <Bjarni> either the command fails or it passes
22:00:10  <Tron> "removed" is redundant, it's equivalent to "quantity != 0"
22:00:16  <Tron> what is the error anyway?
22:00:28  <Wolf01> "can't remove station tile"
22:01:03  <Bjarni> debug it and set a breakpoint
22:01:34  <Wolf01> i debugged it with some printf
22:01:52  <Bjarni> that could also do
22:01:57  <Bjarni> if you placed them right
22:02:11  <Bjarni> then you know where it fails
22:02:30  <Bjarni> if not, then you print the wrong stuff and/or at the wrong line
22:02:50  <Darkvater> what's wrong with a debugger?
22:03:46  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:08:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8500 /branches/0.5/makefiledir/Makefile.libdetection:
22:08:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Fix: [OSX] freetype failed to be detected (now it's always enabled because Xcode installs it)
22:08:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -Fix: [OSX] fontconfig is disabled even if it's found because the default one in OSX is 2.1.0 and OpenTTD needs at least 2.3.0
22:08:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -Fix: FREETYPE_CONFIG is only set when it's undefined. This makes it possible to add it as argument to make
22:08:43  <Wolf01> flags is 0
22:09:12  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	what's wrong with a debugger? <-- not all people like debugging loops with a real debugger
22:09:58  <Wolf01> not all people use an IDE to code and debug
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22:10:08  <peter1138> 3 fixes in one commit?
22:10:24  <Bjarni> peter1138: read the diff. They are closely related
22:10:32  <Bjarni> so closely that it makes sense
22:10:45  <Maedhros> any more comments on ?
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22:33:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8501 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp openttd.cpp saveload.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Fix (r7377) [FS#539]: Keep track of how much cargo has been paid for, so that cargo cannot be paid for more than once.
22:39:14  <Maedhros> good night
22:39:24  <Darkvater> gn
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22:41:17  <Wolf01> Bjarni, so it is the "flags" which is 0 in my patch, that's why i can't remove a station tile
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22:55:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:16:07  <Eddi|zuHause4> Bjarni: btw. it is "Die Schweiz" (with article, and without 'land')
23:16:18  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:21:17  <Bjarni> that's in German. I tried to spell it in English
23:21:21  <Bjarni> not that you could tell :P
23:21:39  <Bjarni> I had to look it up
23:21:44  <Bjarni> it's spelled Switzerland
23:21:56  <Bjarni> don't ask me how I tried to spell it though
23:22:09  <Bjarni> but now that you are here anyway
23:22:17  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause4: I got an assignment for you
23:22:28  <Bjarni> I wonder about the Harz mountain
23:22:49  <Bjarni> looking at the maps, google earth and so on, it seems to be out of place with it's location
23:23:00  <Bjarni> I mean, it's not a real mountain generating area
23:23:26  <Eddi|zuHause4> it's the northernmost mountain range in germany
23:23:28  <Bjarni> and it has nice well defined edges
23:23:40  <Bjarni> how is it made and how old is it?
23:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause4> i used to have a 3d map of it somewhere
23:24:22  <Bjarni> well, yeah, it's more than just one mountain top, but to me, it looks like it's just one big massive rock
23:24:52  <Bjarni> so I wonder if it is something like Ayer's Rock... something uniquely created at location million of years ago
23:25:20  <Bjarni> Ayer's Rock is a piece of land that rotated 90° for unknown reasons, making it vertical
23:25:26  <Bjarni> and it goes far into the earth
23:25:39  <Bjarni> making it really special compared to everything else in the area
23:25:55  <Bjarni> I wonder if there is a similar somewhat unique story to Harz
23:26:10  <Eddi|zuHause4> well, i got taught that it is a split of the earth that raised, while the surrounding area lowered
23:26:27  <Eddi|zuHause4> which is probably not that uncommon
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23:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause4> but it is in that far different from for example the "Erzgebirge" (between 'Sachsen' and 'Böhmen') that the harz stayed basically horizontally, while the erzgebirge tilted, and it's different from the 'Alpen', which got folded
23:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause4> and then there are other mountain ranges, which are of vulcanic origin
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23:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause4> but i don't know any more specific
23:30:32  <Bjarni> folded mountains aren't that far from volcanic active areas
23:30:48  <Bjarni> since folding involves generating volcanoes
23:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause4> hm, i don't know of any vulcanic activity in the 'Alpen'
23:31:20  <Bjarni> it seems odd that the mountain should raise and the land lower
23:31:32  <Bjarni> the mountain is heavier than the land. It should go downwards
23:31:57  <Bjarni> 	<Eddi|zuHause4>	hm, i don't know of any vulcanic activity in the 'Alpen' <-- they are south of them... In Italy
23:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause4> you should ask a geologist, he should be able to explain this in more detail
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23:33:01  <Bjarni> I think even the volcanoes in southern Italy are related to the forces, that creates the Alps. You see, the earth works on a great scale
23:33:36  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause4>	you should ask a geologist <-- and you would be ?
23:33:51  <Eddi|zuHause4> not a geologist ;)
23:33:56  <Bjarni> figures
23:34:24  <Bjarni> so you are an idle uneducated slacker?
23:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause4> errr...
23:35:08  <Eddi|zuHause4> that probably describes it best :p
23:35:44  <Bjarni> great
23:35:50  <Bjarni> that leaves more time for OpenTTD coding
23:35:52  <Bjarni> get to work
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