Log for #openttd on 1st February 2007:
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00:47:02  <BFM> What was mspaint called like, 15 years ago?
00:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause4> what were you called 15 years ago?
00:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause4> it was Paintbrush btw
00:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause4> and while loosing the brush, it also lost the ability to load .pcx files
00:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause4> (that was at the introduction of win95)
00:49:19  <Eddi|zuHause4> and i'm just scared of myself, for knowing such things
00:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause4> but that's typical microsoft, they make it look more pretty, cut out functionality, and call it an "upgrade"
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00:58:09  <Sacro> Paintbrush was quite good i remember
00:58:15  <Sacro> nothing as good as Deluxe Paint thoguh
01:00:08  <Bjarni> hmm painting 15 years ago
01:00:22  <Bjarni> that was 1993... I think I used Deluxe Paint
01:00:38  <Bjarni> hmm
01:00:51  <Bjarni> *1992
01:01:01  <Bjarni> yeah, it got to be Deluxe Paint
01:01:03  <Sacro> i have DP2 3 and 4
01:01:50  <Bjarni> nobody asked you :P
01:02:06  <Bjarni> besides now I use graphic converter whenever I need to paint anything
01:05:03  <Sacro> :(
01:05:06  * Sacro /ignores Bjarni
01:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause4> hm... i don't remember what i used back then...
01:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause4> i'm not that much of a painter ;)
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01:29:18  <BFM> Delux paint doesn't ring a bell :( Maybe it was paint brush I used.
01:29:22  <BFM> Twas on my 286, with VGA graphix
01:30:02  <Sacro> DP was on the Amiga
01:30:10  <Sacro> i got DP2 with my Amiga 500 Screen Gems pack
01:40:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8505 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Ensure GRM allocated sprites will be below the original 16384 sprite limit. If not, fail and disable the NewGRF.
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08:55:10  <Du> ahh Celestar isn't here..
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09:10:04  * peter1138 is
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10:01:46  <raziel> hello
10:02:38  <raziel> i'm looking for some "candy" servers, are there any?? how i find them?
10:02:57  <peter1138> make one, i suspect
10:03:06  <peter1138> as nobody likes toyland
10:03:26  <caladan> it will be said what kind of landscape is current in play
10:03:37  <caladan> if you select server and look into details
10:06:05  <raziel> ye .. what should the type be like : instead of sub-tropical ... "candy" ??
10:07:27  <peter1138> probably "Toyland landscape"
10:07:32  <raziel> i was looked for it , but didnt find anything like "candy" , so i thought it isnt called that way
10:07:55  <raziel> hmm, but it is so fun, ... delivering toys, why noone like it :((
10:08:17  <caladan> cause it hurts eyes?
10:08:25  <raziel> w00t ?
10:08:35  <raziel> u mean all that colors ?
10:08:39  <caladan> it's so damn bright and annoying
10:08:50  <peter1138> yeah
10:08:50  <raziel> u can turn montitor brightness down :D
10:09:05  <peter1138> i can never tell if something is a tree, a rock, an industry or a town
10:09:18  <caladan> so do it yourself, i still dont like it
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10:09:28  <raziel> and what about all that servers out there, u build some trains and some aircrafts and u have 20 mill. of dollars ...
10:09:33  <raziel> isnt that annoying ??
10:09:44  <raziel> isnt there any servers more ... realistic?
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10:11:07  <caladan> come on, we do what we like
10:11:14  <caladan> want to play in toyland, set up a server
10:11:19  <caladan> and have fun
10:11:34  <raziel> man come down, i have nothign against you or any1
10:11:55  <raziel> i am just wondering, i cant imagine that i am the only1 on earth likeing it
10:12:05  <raziel> :P
10:12:12  <caladan> yep, it seems you are
10:12:19  <caladan> and maybe those under 10 ;-)
10:12:32  <raziel> ye , whatever
10:12:43  <raziel> aren't u bored playing the same  maps over and over again?
10:12:59  <caladan> same? there's a good land generator now
10:13:02  <raziel> and after 50 years having so much money that u cand turn the hole map into water ??
10:13:17  <caladan> and 3 landscapes is enought
10:13:25  <raziel> hm
10:13:28  <caladan> well, you can do the same in toyland
10:13:35  <caladan> get a lot of money
10:13:52  <raziel> ye , but i didnt played that yet, taht's why it is something ... ye , special :P
10:14:00  <raziel> it will get bored too after playign a while it'S true
10:14:06  <caladan> so try :D
10:15:05  <raziel> the thing is, after some years, u have so much money, there is no more motivation like "building ... more money"
10:15:13  <raziel> that is sad ... my point of view
10:18:49  <caladan> ok, did you try hard?
10:18:52  <caladan> level?
10:19:52  <raziel> singlegame ... but how i can tell the level in servers?
10:24:44  <raziel> hm
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10:30:29  <raziel> any1 of u wanna start some hard server ??
10:31:30  <Rubidium> raziel: use for example Brianetta's Standard
10:31:56  <Rubidium> it has a 'modified building costs' GRF which makes building stuff a lot more expensive
10:32:23  <raziel> how i recognize such ... settings ... GRFs ?
10:32:43  <Rubidium> what version are you using?
10:32:48  <raziel> rc4
10:34:25  <Brianetta> Rubidium: It has in this game, yes, but not always.
10:34:27  <Rubidium> when there are NewGRFs used in the game there will be a "NewGRF Settings" button in the game info window (which is the right part of the window with all servers when you clicked on multiplayer in the main UI)
10:34:56  <Rubidium> and when you press on that button you can see which NewGRFs are used.
10:35:08  <raziel> ah ok
10:36:43  <raziel> brinetta server is psw protected
10:37:20  <Rubidium> that's so people actually read the 'house rules' for that server
10:38:11  <Rubidium> the URL of the website where to read the house rules and get the password is in the server name
10:38:28  <raziel> ye i got the Homepage i'm on it :)
10:39:30  <raziel> when i browse through that GRFs .. it says somewhere "matching file not found"  .. must i Download that GRFs somewhere first?
10:39:41  <Brianetta> They're all available on that same page
10:39:54  <Brianetta> Just read the whole page, and you have no trouble
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10:46:46  <Gorre> morning,
10:47:40  <Gorre> I'v just received pm from Sergej_S...
10:47:46  <Gorre> i am afraid..
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10:55:03  <mattfury> can i ask when the new 16-bit graphics get released??
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10:55:17  <mattfury> because 256 colours = killer
10:55:28  <peter1138> who's doing 16 bpp graphics?
10:55:29  <mattfury> hurts my eyes and lcd screen
10:55:39  <mattfury> i heard new graphics
10:55:44  <mattfury> off the wiki
10:55:51  <peter1138> 1) they're 32 bpp
10:55:56  <peter1138> 2) they're incomplete
10:56:09  <peter1138> 3) there is no proper support for it
10:56:20  <peter1138> 4) profit?
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11:00:38  <mattfury> ill donate...
11:00:45  <mattfury> if you give me a beta taste
11:01:27  <peter1138> there is nothing
11:03:13  <Gorre> Everything you can actually see from 32bpp graphics are mockups or just plain renders (and tons of words..)
11:06:12  <Ailure> most 32 bpp mockups looks ugly
11:06:13  <Ailure> D:
11:06:49  <mattfury> mm, im going to do an avs render of it
11:14:01  <raziel> wow look at that , hell of a brinetta server difficulty , 20 years played, and that guy has 20 mill dollers ....
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11:16:08  <mattfury> o_000
11:19:17  <Rubidium> raziel: if that guy normally has 200 million Dollar after 20 years and now only 20 million, it is still more difficult than a normal game.
11:19:32  <Arie^> gettin' a lot of money isn't the problem, building a great network is, that's the challenge
11:25:04  <raziel> what u mean by great network?
11:25:13  <raziel> isnt profit the goal of the game?
11:25:57  <raziel> and is that guys some known pro-TTD guy if he should have 200 ?
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11:27:42  <Gorre> I always thought that "fun" is the goal of every game..
11:28:04  <Wolf01> ello
11:29:09  <mattfury> he's using hacks!!
11:29:11  <mattfury> hacks!!!
11:29:15  <mattfury> :p
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11:31:19  <raziel> ye but u cant have fun without ingame "goals" :)
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11:33:46  <setrodox> raziel, playing for money soon gets boring ;)
11:34:27  <setrodox> building a network that works jamless with some hundreds of trains is much more longtime entertaining
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11:38:06  <Gorre> exactly
11:39:24  <peter1138> innit
11:40:51  <raziel> hmm, didnt figure that out yet :)
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12:25:38  <Darkvater> ola
12:28:08  <Darkvater> peter1138: what is this GRM change?
12:30:02  <peter1138> minor
12:30:13  <peter1138> GRM is a horrible hack
12:30:22  <peter1138> and works by altering content in the grf
12:30:32  <peter1138> at that point, the sprite limit still applies
12:30:36  <peter1138> +old
12:30:56  <peter1138> strange... more NewGRF/NFO stuff that is a horrible hack :)
12:31:39  <peter1138> what i can do is write a proper resource allocator so that the sprites are always allocated first
12:31:51  <peter1138> but i haven't deemed it that important yet
12:34:16  <Darkvater> we could have a problem if a lot of grfs use the grm that you still can't get more sprites
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12:36:23  <Darkvater> << comments?
12:36:37  <Darkvater> loading a savegame no longer automatically resets the landscape; you can do this through a button
12:39:26  <Rubidium> Darkvater: looks ok
12:40:55  <Darkvater> different question (perhaps not to go to 0.5): I think the scenario editor should be changed a bit. From the intro you have a button 'scenario editor'. This goes into the scenario editor (where you get the popup for flat/random/heightmap?? <not sure about this>). The disk menu gets a 'new' button which shows the gen-gui, and we remove 'new land' from the terraform window
12:41:00  <Darkvater> comments?
12:41:23  <Darkvater> Rubidium: forgot to include station-cmd in the diff where I deleted the deleteallstations function and inlined it in main-gui
12:42:39  <peter1138> Darkvater: most stuff doesn't need sprite GRM
12:43:22  <Rubidium> Darkvater: the flat/random/heightmap should probably stay, but a load scenario/savegame should be added there or in the main menu
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12:44:00  <Rubidium> the rest of your idea looks ok to me
12:45:34  <Darkvater> Rubidium: ? that gui stays unchanged. I just thought moving that button from the landscape-bar to the main-menu(disk)
12:45:52  <Darkvater> peter1138: ah. what kinds do need grm?
12:46:30  <Darkvater> although I think it's a bit weird that you have to go into the genworld-gui to reset your current landscape
12:46:50  <peter1138> things like defining custom recolour maps
12:47:07  <peter1138> anything that uses the action 1/2/3 system uses relative ids
12:47:19  <peter1138> which is... almost everything
12:48:14  <Darkvater> that's good :)
12:48:16  <Darkvater> right?
12:48:18  <Darkvater> he
12:48:19  <peter1138> yes
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12:50:40  <peter1138> hide!
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12:51:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8507 /trunk/src/ (36 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange/Feature: Don't remove player-owned property on-load in the scenario editor. Add a button to the landscape window to do this.
12:53:28  <Bjarni> peter1138: I got an idea today. We know that certain translation needs to select a font (Japanese, Russian...). How about if no font is selected, select a default one based on OS and only select it for as long as that particular language is selected?
12:54:20  <Bjarni> it would mean that all the Japanese guys would not have to go though all those ???? to select a font
12:54:56  <Maedhros> i think you're going to be lucky to find say a russian font present on all linux distributions...
12:55:22  <Bjarni> yeah, that's an issue
12:55:39  <Bjarni> but we might be able to do it on windows and OSX
12:55:43  <Rubidium> and, does it override the current fontsetting as saved in openttd.cfg?
12:55:50  <Bjarni> which will cover most users
12:56:35  <Bjarni> <Rubidium>	and, does it override the current fontsetting as saved in openttd.cfg? <-- no. It should only be a temp one selected at runtime. Next time, the same will be selected if the user still haven't picked one
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12:57:01  <Bjarni> as a fallback to conditions where we know that people will get a lot of ???
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13:00:08  <Rubidium> Bjarni: that would be fairly ugly to configure I guess
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13:00:44  <Rubidium> as you need a second variable for each of the fonts
13:01:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8508 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Codechange (r5762): [win32] Use an atomic operation to query and set the value of _global_dir_is_in_use for opendir etc to guarantee concurrency.
13:01:13  <Darkvater> people should just read the readme imho
13:01:34  <Rubidium> to determine whether the font was chosen automagically or manually
13:01:41  <Bjarni> I read something about detecting what language the user selected at OS level in OSX, so I wonder about adding code to select the OS selected language if no openttd.cfg is found. The ??? issue would be a problem in this case though
13:03:21  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	people should just read the readme imho <--- well, we know most people don't and what about those people, who do not understand English?
13:03:40  <peter1138> so is the slovenian translator going to fix slovenian?
13:03:43  <Darkvater> how can those people download openttd at all?
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13:03:55  <Darkvater> they can't find the download link if they don't speak english do they?
13:04:00  <Rubidium> peter1138: it could already been fixed in WT2
13:04:06  <peter1138> true
13:04:56  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	they can't find the download link if they don't speak english do they? <--- actually we are linked from non-English pages, so I can imagine that certain people will be able to download the game without knowing English
13:05:43  <Darkvater> you have to read sourceforge
13:06:06  <Rubidium> Bjarni: are the 'you are missing TR*.GRF' messages translated?
13:06:17  <Bjarni> Rubidium: no
13:06:29  <Bjarni> but I'm thinking long term plans here
13:06:35  <Bjarni> it's not the next coding project
13:06:56  <Rubidium> exactly, so they either have to read the readme to know how to fix that, or the linking website should tell them that
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13:07:18  <Bjarni> the latter is not unlikely to happen eventually
13:08:00  <Bjarni> I can imagine Russian and Asian pages saying something like "drop this package in data"
13:08:27  <peter1138> we could supply a bdf...
13:08:30  <peter1138> or 3
13:08:32  <Rubidium> so they can also tell "drop this openttd.cfg into '.'"
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13:09:43  <Rubidium> peter1138: true, but then there should be 1 bdf (so the same default config works for everybody)
13:09:45  <Bjarni> you never imagined that once we switch to 32 bit graphics, we could move on and remove the need for the TTD files?
13:10:10  <peter1138> Rubidium: yes
13:10:39  <peter1138> of course, bdf would eliminate the possibility of antialiased text
13:10:49  <peter1138> hmm, except it would only be a default
13:12:39  <Rubidium> that means having lots of glyphs, as I don't think adding japanese glyphs when they are actually used in the translation is a good way to go
13:12:58  <Darkvater> +korean, chinese
13:13:06  <Darkvater> +hindu?
13:13:48  <peter1138> Rubidium: that makes no sense
13:14:11  <Rubidium> hmm, I meant "is not a good way to go"
13:14:47  <peter1138> still doesn't
13:18:11  <Rubidium> ok, basically: we need to add (almost) all 'letters' are used for a language that OTTD is translated in to that default bdf
13:18:42  <peter1138> yeah
13:18:53  <peter1138> so find a free/gpl bdf. there are lots :)
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13:38:05  <Darkvater> hmm
13:38:10  <peter1138> hmm?
13:38:25  <Darkvater> < thinking about scenario editor
13:38:46  <peter1138> ah
13:39:37  <Darkvater> most logical would be: 'scenario editor', get empty world. In there you loave 'save scenario', 'load scenario', 'load heightmap', 'quit editor'. the landscape button has 'reset player stuff' and 'new map' which either makes a random map or an empty one (heightmap is removed)
13:40:04  <Darkvater> s/loave/have/
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13:45:03  <Bjarni> bbl
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13:54:32  <Rubidium> I found a free(ly distributable) bdf font with glyphs for Russian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese and the latin languages.
13:55:33  <Rubidium> However, I do not really like the looks of the font in OpenTTD but that can be personal
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13:56:33  <alfons_winkel> hello
13:56:40  <alfons_winkel> is there a TE room?
13:57:36  <scia> TE?
14:01:10  <alfons_winkel> Transport Empire
14:01:43  <Darkvater> transport what?
14:01:45  <alfons_winkel> this 3d railroad project on that seems to make no progress
14:02:04  <Darkvater> alfons_winkel: you are confused my friend
14:02:09  <alfons_winkel> am i?
14:02:12  <Darkvater> yes
14:02:22  <alfons_winkel> why is that?
14:02:27  <Darkvater> TE has nothing to do with ottd
14:02:30  <alfons_winkel> oh
14:02:33  <alfons_winkel> sorry
14:02:35  <Darkvater> but
14:02:37  <alfons_winkel> didn't know that
14:02:45  <alfons_winkel> i'm confused all the time ;-)
14:02:57  <alfons_winkel> but what?
14:03:13  <Darkvater> but I have a a slow pc so you have to be patient
14:03:26  <Darkvater>
14:03:35  <alfons_winkel> np. thx
14:03:36  <Darkvater> the TE subofurm
14:03:47  <alfons_winkel> yeah i know this forum
14:04:03  <alfons_winkel> do they have a irc channel?
14:04:17  <Darkvater> no idea
14:04:25  <Darkvater> you could check #tycoon over on quakenet
14:04:41  <alfons_winkel> okie
14:11:50  <Belugas> helloo all
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14:26:07  <Darkvater> hi
14:29:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8509 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Add some enum names to the create scenario window
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14:48:13  <Rubidium> do we want (making WindowClass an enum instead of a byte) or not?
14:51:44  <Belugas> i vote yes :)
14:55:55  * KUDr_wrk too
14:57:17  <Darkvater> he replace 0 by wc_main_window :)
14:57:51  <Darkvater> +WindowClass window_type = WC_MAIN_WINDOW; << rename it to window_class or wnd_cls?
15:01:03  <Rubidium> Darkvater: so you agree with the 0 -> WC_MAIN_WINDOW changes?
15:01:40  <Darkvater> well, it's a bit weird, cause 0 actually means no parent
15:02:06  <Rubidium> WC_NONE?
15:03:11  <Darkvater> if that could have the same value as wc_main_window
15:03:28  <Rubidium> it could have that
15:03:54  <Darkvater> I think that would be better...
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15:12:38  <peter1138> we should use pointers to reference the parent ;)
15:19:03  <Darkvater> peter1138: internally that's possible, just not in the define :)
15:20:11  <Belugas> TODO!
15:21:21  <peter1138> Darkvater: even when windows are deleted?
15:21:52  <Darkvater> if a window has a parent/child the delete is cascaded throughout
15:22:07  <Darkvater> just that not all windows have been changed to support this
15:22:14  <Darkvater> so far only the confirmation windows I wrote
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15:22:22  <Darkvater> but doing this is an easy job
15:23:44  <peter1138> well i was referring to the fact that window pointers change...
15:23:47  <peter1138> unless that was fixed
15:24:30  <Darkvater> _z_windows[]
15:24:31  <Darkvater> :)
15:25:16  <Rubidium> ok, I've updated the patch to use WC_NONE instead of WC_MAIN_WINDOW
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15:30:59  <peter1138> 15:27 < kuribas> Can I call a variadic function with a variable number of args?
15:31:01  <peter1138> :D :D
15:31:12  <Darkvater> lol
15:35:43  <Darkvater>
15:35:50  <Darkvater>
15:35:56  <Darkvater> commentorises?
15:36:42  <Darkvater> intro > 'scenario editor'. 'land generation' > 'scenario type'. 'load heightmap' > heightmap thingie
15:38:02  <glx> green buttons may be too small for some languages
15:38:54  <Darkvater> he
15:39:03  <Darkvater> I same-sized them to the 'generate' button
15:45:09  <Rubidium> Darkvater: is the following better?
15:47:37  <Darkvater> looks good
15:49:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8511 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make WindowClass an enumerated value.
15:56:00  <Darkvater> user-based comments on the scenario change?
15:58:34  <Darkvater> peter1138: what am I hearing?..
15:58:48  <Darkvater> peter1138: celestar tells me you wanted to do the bouy-flood thing?
15:59:36  <peter1138> i would if i had time
15:59:42  <Darkvater> he
15:59:44  <Darkvater> overtime ^^
16:03:39  <Belugas> how much dearly do I hate this word :S
16:06:20  <Zavior> Much!
16:08:35  <Belugas> quite :) but not even close :D
16:09:27  <peter1138> much with a capital 'mu'
16:11:32  <Belugas> let's put it all in capital!  Let us not be spare with the uppercase!
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16:21:40  <Rector> could this be a bug? no matter where I try to build a road, it says "Can't build road here..."
16:22:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8512 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp intro_gui.cpp lang/english.txt main_gui.cpp):
16:22:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: From the intro window enter the scenario editor. From the scenario
16:22:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: editor dialog, remove the 'load heightmap' option and put that with the other
16:22:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: options like 'load scenario', 'save scenario', etc. Play a little bit with
16:22:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: positioning of elements inside the scenario editor dialog so it looks better.
16:24:29  <Maedhros> Rector: what year did you start in? are there any road vehicles available to build?
16:24:29  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: ping
16:24:30  <Wolf01> Darkvater, why not add a "load scenario" or "edit scenario" directly on the intr gui?
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16:24:50  <Darkvater> cause that would be too crowded
16:24:58  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: pong
16:25:19  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: how do you say in czech '% complete'?
16:25:31  <Rector> Maedhros, it's currently 1952, and yes, there are road vehicles available
16:25:48  <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: '% hotovo'
16:25:56  <Darkvater> no Z % hotovo?
16:26:05  <KUDr_wrk> also
16:26:06  <Darkvater> 'Z % hotovo'
16:26:11  <Wolf01> Darkvater, you should remove those landscape buttons
16:26:13  <KUDr_wrk> depends on what task it is
16:26:18  <Darkvater> ok
16:26:29  <Darkvater> Wolf01: I have no idea what you are talking aboug
16:27:44  <bubersson> it also could be "Z % dodìláno, Z % vyrobeno, Z % naloŸeno" ... it depends on task...
16:28:12  <Darkvater> I thought 'Z' was a typo or something
16:28:18  <KUDr_wrk> no
16:28:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8513 /trunk/src/lang/ (33 files): -Cleanup (r8512): Remove the now unused strings from the language files, as well as two others that weren't used for ages (tgp had other strings for them, or simply not).
16:28:43  <Wolf01> this is mine idea, maybe not good as yours but it works and is easier to find the sections (game/scenario/options)
16:28:43  <bubersson> but 'Z % hotovo' is imho the most universal way
16:28:45  <Darkvater> it was :Z {white} {num} % hotovo
16:28:51  <Darkvater> and Z was in blue ;p
16:29:00  <Darkvater> now it is :{white}z {num} ...
16:29:18  <Rector> can someone help me? no matter where I try to build a road, it says "Can't build road here..."
16:29:39  <Wolf01> Rector, year, grfsets used, ottd version?
16:30:12  <Rector> Wolf01, 1952, ottd 0.5.5-RC4, grfsets?
16:30:46  <Rector> oops, 0.5.0-RC4
16:31:17  <Darkvater> new game?
16:31:19  <Rector> grf files are from ttd, downloaded from abandonia
16:31:42  <Rector> it's a scenario I built
16:31:56  <Rector> but I've built others before, and that never happened
16:32:00  <Wolf01> with another scenario it works?
16:32:11  <Darkvater> it always happens when you use that scenario to start a new game?
16:32:34  <Wolf01> Darkvater, what do you think about my idea?
16:32:52  <Rector> Wolf01, it works on other scenarios, yes
16:32:56  <bubersson> rector: the same thing had happend to me once
16:33:20  <Darkvater> Wolf01: eeeek
16:33:31  <Rector> bubersson, and what did you do to fix it?
16:34:33  <bubersson> Rector: almost everything... I tried to build stuffs, lower land, build trees and something fixed it.
16:35:22  <Darkvater> Wolf01: the decision to not to change the intro window when TGP was merged was made for a reason: it is just too familiar to change. This...the same and way too crowded
16:35:36  <Darkvater> also the 4 landscapes in the 4 corners: too much mouse-travel
16:35:43  <Wolf01> they are images
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16:36:05  <bubersson> :D now it happend also to me... can't build roads!
16:36:07  <Wolf01> as they are completely useless in the intro gui, as you must set them in the tgp gui
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16:36:57  <Darkvater> they do work in the intro gui :)
16:37:01  <Rector> bubersson, happened just now? wow, I think there's a bug on the air
16:37:05  <Darkvater> but I'll pass out on this wip
16:37:13  <Wolf01> yes but they are redundant
16:38:40  <bubersson> I know how I did it... I had started editor and I created a new scenery with flat land... and I cant build roads!
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16:39:17  <Rector> devs, 2 people here having problems building roads
16:39:22  <Rector> :D
16:40:12  <bubersson> And now error... and OpenTTD dissappeared...
16:40:37  <bubersson> (I have the latest MiniIN)
16:40:47  <Darkvater> peter1138: how does this '?'-missing sprite work for trunk/? don't think overriding sc->file_pos works
16:41:04  <Darkvater> bubersson: miniin is not-bug
16:41:43  <Rector> created another scenario and... can't build roads again
16:41:46  <Darkvater> Rector: can you build roads with a new random game? can you build roads in the scenario editor? can you build roads with another scenario loaded?
16:42:00  <Wolf01> miniNI is provided as is
16:42:18  <Rector> Darkvater, I can build them on a New game, but can't do it in the scenario editor, nor playing the created scenario
16:42:22  <bubersson> Rector: resolved: I have builded a city and now I can build roads
16:42:32  <Darkvater> Rector: so you can't build roads in the scenario editor?
16:42:39  <Rector> bubersson, I have a town, and I can't
16:42:45  <Wolf01> you shouldn't start a new game without cities
16:42:49  <Rector> Darkvater, yep, I can't
16:42:55  <Rector> I have cities!
16:42:58  <bubersson> Rector: hm... try to build another one
16:43:54  <Darkvater> cd ..
16:43:55  <Darkvater> eh
16:44:58  <Darkvater> it works for me in RC4
16:48:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r8514 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Turn IsBuoy into a method of stations
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16:55:51  <Wolf01> bbl
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17:00:21  <Belugas> Rector, i've just tested it with latest nightly, i can.  Scenario editor as well as ingame
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17:01:39  <Rector> Belugas, very good, I'll check it out
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17:05:48  <maddy> hiho
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17:16:19  <ln->
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17:54:19  <peter1138> o_O
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17:54:48  <Wolf01> evening
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18:16:22  <bubersson> have you done anything with this problem:  (can't build roads) since I wasn't here?
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18:17:58  <Darkvater> bubersson: are there towns in scenario?
18:18:08  <bubersson> no
18:18:12  <Darkvater> there you go
18:18:40  <bubersson> so where theres no town I can't build roads? ok
18:18:52  <bubersson> *when
18:19:19  <Darkvater> we should probably tell that in the error message
18:19:38  <bubersson> thats true!
18:20:51  <bubersson> And have Rector said anything since I wasn't here? He had towns, but he also couldn't build roads.
18:21:16  <Darkvater> othing afaik
18:22:18  <Belugas> bubersson, i've tested it today with the latest nightly.  It does work fine.  So, what should be done?
18:22:40  <Belugas> and we are talking about trunk's nighlty, by the way...
18:22:47  <Belugas> just in case ;)
18:22:49  <bubersson> ok, I was testing on RC4
18:22:57  <bubersson> my bad...
18:23:05  <Darkvater> Belugas: trunk doesn't work either if there's no town
18:23:58  <Belugas> of course not...
18:24:21  <bubersson> So the only thing is there should be message about 'cant build roads when theres no town.
18:24:21  <Belugas> but that is a pre-requisite, of course
18:24:47  <Belugas> should we popup a message on every condition not respected?
18:25:08  <Rector> I had towns, 2 of them, but still couldn't build roads. So I created another scenario, and it worked
18:25:16  <bubersson> it popups with 'cant build road' already
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18:30:31  <Darkvater> got an error message for that
18:30:43  <Darkvater> but I think I might've broken something in a prev commit :s
18:30:57  <Darkvater> let's see it a bit later
18:31:06  <Darkvater> Rector: save scenario post it somewhere so we can look
18:32:08  <bubersson> Darkvater: :) ok, thx... but also it is weird when we can't build roads, but we can build bridges.
18:32:33  <Rector> bubersson, yes, bridges are OK
18:32:43  <Rector> Darkvater, I'll try to upload it somewhere, hold on
18:34:43  <Rector> Darkvater, in linux, where are the save files stored?
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18:35:39  <Rector> nvm, got it
18:37:52  <Rector> Darkvater,, here it is, just play it and see
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18:39:23  <glx> anyway without towns you can't have industries so I don't see what you can transport :)
18:39:56  <Rector> I have towns, and industries
18:40:05  <Rector> but cannot build roads
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18:40:15  <Rector> (in that specific scenario file)
18:42:10  <Maedhros> hmm, how odd
18:42:58  <Maedhros> it works again if you build a new town
18:44:25  <bubersson> Once it happend also to me this way (I had lots of towns but couldn't build roads) many revision ago...
18:45:22  <mic> hello, guys, i have a problem: then i press "find server" button in game list, only 0-5 servers appears. routers probably drops these ~100 udp flood packets. i have found a patch that fix it, but whom should i contact to have this patch applied?
18:45:45  <mic> the patch is
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18:49:33  <Rector> is there a way of auto-replacing all old trucks from my fleet?
18:50:26  <bubersson> And what about this bug, should I report it to flyspray?... bridge from nowhere: - bus should explode (but it will be I think hard to code)
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19:08:06  <MeusH> hello
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19:08:54  <KeeperOfTheSoul> hello there
19:09:39  <MeusH> Bjarni, damn, you're winning
19:09:52  <Bjarni> I'm always winning
19:09:56  <Bjarni> but what is it this time?
19:09:58  * peter1138 waits FIVE MILLION YEARS for a recompile
19:10:10  <MeusH> :p hehe bjarni :)
19:10:13  <MeusH> handball finalz
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19:10:18  <peter1138> hmm
19:10:24  <Bjarni> we are winning?
19:10:25  <peter1138> i wonder which dev has the slowest machine ;p
19:10:26  <Bjarni> cool
19:10:38  <MeusH> 6-5
19:11:00  <MeusH> I've just got a 30 euro comp
19:11:13  <MeusH> PIII 500MHz and I'm going to install gentoo
19:11:19  <peter1138> fool
19:11:27  <MeusH> so that I can chat with you at school, by putty
19:11:28  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	i wonder which dev has the slowest machine ;p <-- when my PSU died, I had to work on a 266 MHz G3 until I got the problem with the "new" one fixed
19:12:18  <Bjarni> I worked more or less blindly when coding and set it compile when I left for lunch and so on
19:13:01  <Bjarni> I did manage to make endian_check aware of universal binaries on that computer
19:13:02  <peter1138> and you still work more or less blindly ;)
19:13:12  <Bjarni> ...
19:13:14  <Bjarni> shit
19:13:18  <Bjarni> wrong word
19:13:21  <Bjarni> :s
19:14:07  <Bjarni> what I meant was that I created some diff files without recompiling them to verify that they actually worked
19:14:20  <Bjarni> so in theory they could be failing the symtax
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19:29:07  <Wolf01> there is somebody who can help me to fix a bug in one of my patches?
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19:30:40  <Wolf01> if ((e-> >> 4) == GUI_PlaceProc_RemoveFromStation >> 4)
19:30:40  <Wolf01> 	DoCommandP(end_tile, start_tile, 0, CcPlaySound1E, CMD_REMOVE_FROM_RAILROAD_STATION | CMD_MSG(STR_CANT_REMOVE_PART_OF_STATION));
19:30:40  <Wolf01> i have a problem here, the flag part (CMD_...) is always 0
19:33:29  <Bjarni> here is how it works
19:33:39  <Bjarni> I was going to tell you yesterday, but then you left
19:34:01  <Wolf01> mmm
19:34:29  <Bjarni> when using DoCommandP(), it will first verify that the function is ok by running it with DC_EXEC unset (it's a bitmask. Forget about the rest of the bits)
19:34:56  <Bjarni> if it returns something else than CMD_ERROR, then the function is ok, and it will be sent to the server
19:35:02  <Bjarni> *send
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19:35:35  <Bjarni> the server will then verify it and then send it to all clients, so it can be executed at the same time
19:35:50  <Bjarni> only when it's actually executed will DC_EXEC be set
19:36:28  <Bjarni> it looks like something returns CMD_ERROR when DC_EXEC is not set and because of that, the server will never be informed of this
19:37:30  <Bjarni> so the problem is not flags, but that when the test is performed, you return CMD_ERROR even though it should be ok
19:37:44  <Wolf01> mmh, ok, the function give error, so i need to fix it too
19:37:57  <Bjarni> and if the check is ok, then return the cost (which is 0 if it's a free action, like starting a train)
19:40:08  <Bjarni> <Wolf01>	mmh, ok, the function give error, so i need to fix it too <-- actually that is the problem. The flag issue is not a problem, but the correct result to your incorrect return value
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19:41:32  <Wolf01> no i have a problem with the tile<map assert
19:41:49  <Bjarni> ahh
19:42:02  <Turulo> Hiz
19:42:02  <Bjarni> generally you should make sure that you can never assert in a command
19:42:49  <Bjarni> it can be abused by bad people to modify their clients to send commands to trigger those asserts and by doing that, they can kill all servers
19:42:53  <Bjarni> we don't want that ;)
19:43:18  <Wolf01> heh in other places i fixed that assert
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19:43:41  <Wolf01> (two lines before the if(flags & DC_EXEC))
19:45:43  <Bjarni> bbl
19:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause> asserts are generally there to not be triggered...
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19:47:46  <Bjarni> yeah
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19:48:32  <Bjarni> but if you say use the argument to get a vehicle (the argument would then be a VehicleID), then you can assert if you skip the verification first
19:48:52  <Bjarni> the functions use a function to verify that it's a valid vehicleID first
19:49:20  <Wolf01> mmm.. all the tiles are in the map array, so i wonder why asserts tile<mapsize()
19:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> asserts are for things that you EXPECT to not happen... if you actually WANT something to not happen, use real errors
19:51:58  <Bjarni> bbl
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19:54:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: exactly the reason why they should not be used in all Cmd's as they receive both unchecked user commands and commands from the network clients/server
19:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i did not question that
19:55:46  <bubersson> when do you think the final 0.5 will be released?? is it in month horizont??
19:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> bubersson: RC5 is supposed to be prepared, and from releasing that, expect about 2 weeks, if nothing serious comes up
19:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (but as you know, no battle plan ever survived the first contact with the enemy)
19:58:22  <bubersson> Eddi|zuHause: :) ok
19:59:44  <Wolf01> assert(tile2<MapSize()); so if i write this, is like if (tile2>=MapSize()) return CMD_ERROR;?
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20:02:02  <Rubidium> Wolf01: yes, but in when the command comes from the GUI, tile2 should be smaller than MapSize and the assert/CMD_ERROR should be unneeded
20:02:33  *** Triffid_Hunter [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02:50  <Wolf01> that's the problem... the tile is smaller than MapSize()
20:03:39  <Rubidium> you mean larger?
20:03:51  <Wolf01> no, is smaller
20:04:11  <Wolf01> it asserts with assert(tile2>=MapSize());
20:04:43  <Wolf01> but in another function, in the if(flags & DC_EXEC) it asserts assert(tile2<MapSize());
20:04:55  <Rubidium> where?
20:04:59  <Wolf01> wait
20:06:10  <Wolf01>
20:06:15  <Wolf01> station_cmd
20:07:12  <Wolf01> you can find "assert(tile2<MapSize());" which doesn't asserts, after that it asserts
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20:33:56  <SpComb> Logs:
20:33:56  <MeusH> !logs
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20:39:36  <Darkvater> 20:10 < peter1138> i wonder which dev has the slowest machine ;p << I do. AMD 1.3GHz WindowsXP on linux vmware ;p
20:41:16  <Rubidium> Darkvater: I have a Pentium M @ 600 MHz and I could run WXP in vmware too :)
20:41:33  <Darkvater> ah, but I am actually doing it
20:43:03  <Rubidium> anyway, what about (requerying for (still) offline servers in the gamelist)
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20:48:15  <Darkvater> Rubidium: void NetworkGameListRequery() < 'void'
20:48:24  <Darkvater> but why do you think requerying will make'em visible?
20:48:52  <Rubidium> udp packets get occasionally lost
20:49:49  <Rubidium> and it will not make all visible, but it should make more servers visible
20:50:26  <Rubidium> especially on a fairly saturated DSL connection lots of UDP packets seem to get lost
20:50:49  <Tron> <Darkvater> Rubidium: void NetworkGameListRequery() < 'void' <--- unnecessary in C++
20:51:19  <Darkvater> so are we going to rewrite all functions without void?
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20:54:40  <Rubidium> anyway, should new code have the void or not?
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20:55:32  <Darkvater> I would vote yes until we agree on something else and change it consistently
20:55:41  <hylje> yes no maybe
20:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing a global serch&replace wouldn't fix ;)
20:56:27  <caladan> with regexp :D
20:58:33  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I contacted the fink guys about the issue regarding iconv and UTF-8-MAC and the lack of this charset in the iconv they provide and now they are hard at work on a possible solution :D
20:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> every search&replace with regexp can be replaced by a series of search&replaces without regexp
20:59:29  <Darkvater> Bjarni: :O they actually listen to what people say?
20:59:35  <Bjarni> yeah
21:00:17  <Bjarni> I managed to work around it for OpenTTD, but fontconfig didn't like my workaround so I had to contact them
21:00:53  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
21:02:10  *** scia [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02:16  <Darkvater> :)
21:02:44  <Darkvater> Bjarni: it is bizarre though. OSX has a special UTF8 charset and the supplied iconv doesn't support it
21:03:14  <Bjarni> iconv in OSX knows it, but not the fink one
21:03:36  <Bjarni> the bizarre part is that the fink guys were unaware of this issue o_O
21:04:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8520 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files): -Fix/Feature: requery gameservers that did not respond to their first query.
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21:39:55  <Tron> horrible, plain horrible
21:42:26  <Tron> Bjarni:
21:42:30  <Tron> any comments?
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21:42:56  * Bjarni reads
21:48:31  <Bjarni> hmm
21:48:54  <Bjarni> I had a specific reason to add the cost animation...
21:50:32  * Bjarni decides to test this diff
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21:56:16  <Bjarni> Tron: it appears to work like it should
21:56:58  <Bjarni> now I wonder why I added that cost animation thing. I remember something about it being needed at the time, but it appears that something changed
21:57:30  <Bjarni> whatever the reason might have been, it appears that it's not needed anymore, which will be the important part
22:00:42  <Belugas> good night all
22:01:01  <UnderBuilder> gn
22:01:35  <UnderBuilder> Try either 5.0 RC4 or one of the nightlies. <--- Dale
22:01:45  <UnderBuilder> DaleStan wrote that :O
22:01:52  <Bjarni> where?
22:02:05  <DaleStan> GAH!!!
22:02:08  <UnderBuilder>
22:02:23  <DaleStan> No, I didn't!
22:02:26  <UnderBuilder> "the bear fall under his own trap"
22:02:31  <Tron> what's the leave_depot_instantly mumbojumbo for?
22:02:41  <UnderBuilder> :P
22:03:25  <UnderBuilder> I should not bug about that :(
22:03:53  <Bjarni> Tron: it's a flag to tell if the vehicle should leave the depot on it's own when it's done
22:04:03  <Tron> uh, well
22:04:18  <Tron>
22:05:04  <Bjarni> that diff will likely break stuff
22:05:11  <Tron> name this stuff
22:06:05  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:06:45  <Bjarni> right now when a vehicle enters a depot, it's added to a list of vehicles, that entered a depot this tick and the vehicle is stopped. When the vehicle loop is done, all the vehicles in that list will run though autoreplace and if the flag is set, then they leave on their own
22:07:17  <Tron> so?
22:07:19  <Bjarni> if autoreplace is called during the vehicle loop, some stuff messes up. Selling and building vehicles inside the vehicle loop can go really wrong
22:07:29  <Tron> so?
22:08:12  <Tron> to make it short: i fail to see your point
22:08:21  *** pebkac [] has joined #openttd
22:08:42  <Bjarni> if the vehicle is not stopped, it can leave the depot before autoreplace can work on it and selling it will be impossible. Because of this, it needs to be stopped
22:09:13  <Bjarni> when the game stops the vehicle on it's own, it should be started again on it's own or the vehicles will stop all the time and stay stopped
22:09:31  <Bjarni> and then this flag is needed to tell if they are supposed to stop or start automatically
22:10:57  <Tron> good this fact was documented ... not
22:11:30  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:12:09  <Bjarni> where would you add additional information on this?
22:12:24  <Rubidium> the variable in vehicle.h?
22:12:28  <Bjarni> besides the svn log
22:12:57  <Eddi|zuHause> at the variable declaration, i would assume
22:13:24  <pebkac> In the wiki?
22:14:02  <Bjarni> wow, the fink guys are still working on iconv because I asked them for a solution on a simple linking issue
22:14:16  <Bjarni> now it looks like they are updating the whole package to solve this
22:14:29  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:16:46  <Bjarni> it really matters to talk to developers :D
22:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause> better than talking to marketing people :)
22:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> or "tech support"
22:22:58  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:30:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8521 /trunk/src/network/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: initial step in converting Packet to a class; make and use constructors and functions related to the reading/saving the packet size.
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22:54:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8522 /trunk/src/ (genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp intro_gui.cpp): -Regression (r8512): The flat/random window moved the to scenario editor did not use the right settings for generating land
22:55:46  *** PandaMojo [] has joined #openttd
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22:59:00  <Neonox> Tron: Ping
23:02:24  *** nairan [] has joined #openttd
23:04:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Neonox: there was something about a singular-plural inconsisty with "aircraft" -> "Flugzeug(e)"
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23:17:38  * caladan is testing WOL
23:17:45  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: now that's actually an issue. I can imagine that some places in the code will just use singular as both singular and plural because they are the same in English
23:18:00  <Bjarni> but messes up in most other languages
23:18:08  <Bjarni> WEL?
23:18:12  <Bjarni> *WOL
23:18:38  <Bjarni> World Of Laughing?
23:18:54  <Bjarni> is that a new name for
23:18:55  <Rubidium> basically waking caladan on lan activity
23:20:19  <caladan> yep
23:20:22  <caladan> Wake-On-Lan
23:20:32  <caladan> i'm admin in my secondary school
23:20:50  <caladan> 20 pcs with like 512 RAM and 2GHz uP
23:20:51  <caladan> :D
23:21:02  <Bjarni> nice compile farm
23:21:08  <caladan> gonna try to do a cluster
23:21:42  <caladan> all linux :D
23:22:08  <caladan> gonna do updates and so on when all teachers go home
23:23:39  * Eddi|zuHause imagines caladan ripping and seeding movies all night
23:23:53  *** XeryusTC [] has quit []
23:24:04  <Bjarni> he will only need one computer to do that
23:24:21  <Bjarni> 20 computers compiling OpenTTD
23:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well, but then not in real time
23:24:31  <Bjarni> now that should be fast
23:24:37  <Bjarni> you better code some stuff for us
23:24:45  <Bjarni> you can compile and verify it in no time
23:26:17  <caladan> iT'S ALIVE!!!
23:26:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8523 /trunk/src/network/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move all the Network(Recv|Send)_(uintXX|string) functions to Packet.
23:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you could throw a modelchecker over OTTD ;)
23:26:53  <caladan> it works @ my home
23:26:58  *** nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:27:06  <caladan> tomorrow gonna try it on all that pcs :D
23:27:24  <caladan> modelchecker>
23:31:52  <caladan> hmm, it takes like 20seconds on my PC, so where's the problem with compiling?
23:31:58  <caladan> i do make clean only if i really need to..
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23:35:53  <Bjarni> <caladan>	iT'S ALIVE!!! <-- you manage to look past your stomach for a change?
23:36:34  <Bjarni> caladan: imagine coding something where you need to make clean each time you modify something
23:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> <caladan> iT'S ALIVE!!! <- don't tell that to vegetarians, or they will never use a computer again
23:36:54  <Bjarni> or rather: compiling will take as long as when you make clean first
23:37:14  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: I presume you have this habit of eating your computer, then?
23:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ;)
23:37:44  <blathijs> anyway
23:37:46  <blathijs> Good night!
23:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> well actually, there are different stages of vegetarians
23:37:52  <Bjarni> maybe Eddi|zuHause tries to eat out his computer whenever he finds porn on the internet
23:37:53  <caladan> gn :-)
23:38:08  <Bjarni> but since porn is so rare on the internet, it's not a huge issue
23:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause> people that don't use hairspray because it was tested on animals or such things
23:38:09  <Bjarni> :P
23:38:19  <caladan> i dony use hairsparay cause i dont like to :>
23:38:20  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: That's called "vegan" if I'm not mistaken
23:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hairsplitting
23:38:40  <Bjarni> I don't use hairspray because they are toxic
23:38:43  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Vegetarian only applies to eating AFAIK
23:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> they were just lazy and left out a few letters
23:38:53  <Wolf01> 'night all
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23:39:02  <blathijs> I don't use hairspray because... uh... Maybe I should use hairspray!
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23:39:18  <Bjarni> for all we know blathijs could be balled
23:39:44  <caladan> vegan mean no eating eggs and milk afair
23:39:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8524 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Ala r8509 add some enum names to the generate landscape window
23:39:53  <blathijs> Bjarni: actually have a pony tail down my back, so no
23:40:24  <blathijs> "a vegan commits to the abstention from consumption or use of animal products"
23:40:27  <blathijs> (Wikipedia)
23:41:02  <Bjarni> you are a guy, right?
23:41:45  <Bjarni> then the pony tail would make you either a linux export or a fag
23:41:47  <Bjarni> or both
23:42:05  <caladan> expert? :>
23:42:19  <Bjarni> expert wannabe
23:43:49  <Bjarni> ohh that reminds me of a teacher's assistant, that was once supposed to help me. We should code C and his answer to everything was to use gcc (even though we were told to use the MS thing on the computers). It would solve all problems, even incorrect symtax, like missing ;
23:44:03  <caladan> syntax? :>
23:44:21  <Bjarni> then once in a while people asked him for help and he actually figured out how to solve the problems
23:44:26  <Bjarni> ... asking me o_O
23:44:37  <caladan> happens ;]
23:44:50  <Bjarni> he asked me for help on how to code and he got paid while I didn't
23:45:10  <caladan> in my secondary school there's a guy who thinks that turning off PC means plugging it off the power socket
23:45:40  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:45:47  <Bjarni> then one day he called 30 minutes before he was supposed to show up and said "I just got another job. I quit. Don't expect to ever see me again"
23:46:12  <Bjarni> sure enough... he left the country and we never saw him again
23:46:25  <caladan> lol
23:46:43  <Bjarni> people didn't really miss his help though
23:46:50  <caladan> that guy in my sec school said to english teacher in secret he wants to go to ireland
23:46:53  <Bjarni> make that "help forwarding"
23:47:09  <caladan> when he leaves Poles will be smarter :D
23:47:46  <Bjarni> Ireland accept Poles as it is now
23:47:55  <Bjarni> but I imagine that they will stop eventually
23:48:08  <caladan> hmmm, yep, when there will be more poles ;]
23:49:13  <Bjarni> I don't know that many Poles, but I hope the avg Pole is different from what my personal statistics tells me
23:49:35  <caladan> what kind of personal statistics?
23:49:51  <Bjarni> like this guy, who started talking about which drugs that were nice to use and which ones to avoid and he talked about them like everybody had tried everything o_O
23:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8525 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make NetworkSend_Packet(s) and NetworkRecv_Packet functions of NetworkTCPSocketHandler.
23:50:18  <caladan> lol, i guess junkies are everywhere
23:50:39  <Bjarni> considering it's the only Pole that I know who talked about stuff like that, it makes it 100% of the Poles, who do multiple drugs
23:51:25  <Bjarni> he actually said something like "Don't use speed. It's artificial. Use (something) instead"
23:51:31  <Bjarni> and I was like wtf
23:51:50  <Bjarni> I was talking about being busy studying and then he starts to tell me to do drugs
23:51:50  <caladan> i know one guy who smoked that much weed, that he finally began to forget many things and acted like animal :D
23:52:20  <caladan> well, we got some studies that require a lot of hard working, a lot of things to memorize
23:52:48  <caladan> i've heard that some jobs, like doctors, have to know every little bone, muscle and so on in human body
23:52:56  *** Neonox [] has quit [Quit: bin wech....]
23:53:03  <Bjarni> that's actually not as hard as it sounds
23:53:48  <caladan> there's a joke: twe medicine students are walkin down the streen, then one sees a phonebook
23:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like knowing each function in libc
23:54:00  <Bjarni> remember that if you spent ages studying stuff like that because it interest you instead of other stuff like computers, then it's certainly possible
23:54:08  <caladan> he picks it up and says: i dont know what it is, but we better learn from it
23:54:47  <Bjarni> that reminds me of Rainman
23:54:49  <caladan> Bjarni: it's not about learning cause you use it, there are subjects like anathomy
23:55:18  <caladan> one semester - 5 months - all muscles + their latin names :D
23:55:45  <Bjarni> why would that be so tricky?
23:56:03  <caladan> cause there are many muscles you are not even aware of?
23:56:07  <Bjarni> remember that it's a full time job, so you need to do little else while studying
23:56:19  <caladan> it's one of subjects
23:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> caladan: that's because a programmer who forgot a function just looks into the man pages or something, a doctor in surgery can't do that
23:56:37  <Bjarni> lol
23:56:55  <caladan> Eddi|zuHause: that's right, that aint easy studying - you really need to know all that names
23:57:15  *** Tron [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but like Bjarni said, it's not that difficult, once you invest enough time in it
23:57:20  <caladan> if i forget some name or syntax for some function, i just ask google
23:57:31  <Bjarni> that reminds me of Weird Al's music video "like a surgeon". During an operation, he looks in a book (manual?) and it got a picture of a body and the text "you are here"
23:57:36  <caladan> If it is not used, you tend to forget it
23:58:09  <caladan> and in poland medical studies are like 10 years long?
23:58:34  <Bjarni> think of driving. Is it ok to notice a sign and then look it up in a book while driving?
23:58:47  <caladan> nothing to compare
23:59:05  <caladan> there are like 80 of signs, and if you drive car every day it's ok
23:59:15  <caladan> AND that is some kind of picture
23:59:17  <Bjarni> you need to know even the signs that you never see, because all of a certain they are there
23:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 10 years is pretty long... here you can get medical practicioner in 12 semesters (6 years), or add a few more to get the "doctor" title (that is basically just for the name)
23:59:35  <caladan> like keep left sign or something
23:59:56  <Bjarni> ok, then say train signals

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