Log for #openttd on 8th March 2007:
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00:03:16  <AmpCoder> Hello
00:03:55  <Sacro|Laptop> HI
00:04:46  <Sacro|Laptop> oops
00:13:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9056 /branches/newhouses/ (296 files in 17 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r8970:9055.
00:14:36  <Sacro|Laptop> :o newhouses is over 9000
00:18:03  <Rubidium> how horrible :)
00:18:12  <Sacro|Laptop> :o
00:18:22  <Nigel> hmm, whats New Houses like these days?
00:19:37  <Rubidium> Nigel hasn't checked it recently?
00:19:54  <Nigel> lets just say Busy?
00:20:06  <Nigel> Exams, Conferences and what nots
00:20:40  <Sacro|Laptop> ooh what nots
00:20:46  <Rubidium> it's nearly finished I believe
00:21:19  <Nigel> so thats one more TTD-Orig grf depend gone?
00:21:35  <Rubidium> not really
00:21:48  <Rubidium> not more gone than before at least
00:25:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9057 /branches/newhouses/src/ (table/town_land.h town_cmd.cpp): [NewHouses] -Fix: global variable missed the underscore prefix.
00:28:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9058 /branches/32bpp/ (301 files in 18 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync with trunk r8961:9055.
00:28:57  <Sacro|Laptop> :D
00:29:01  <Sacro|Laptop> ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND
00:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> come back when it is over nine million
00:29:49  <Sacro|Laptop> oooOOOooo
00:35:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9059 /branches/32bpp/src/ (fileio.h players.cpp): [32bpp] -Fix: indent by tabs instead of spaces.
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00:50:47  <DJ-ProsiT> hmm isnt there a 3d version of tt?
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00:58:55  <Sacro|Laptop> kinda
00:59:49  <DJ-ProsiT> hmm could be kinda fun to find a MMO of tt ;P
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01:02:19  <Sacro|Laptop> err... no
01:03:15  <DJ-ProsiT> hmm why not
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02:59:29  <Nigel> oh, i've struck an issue
02:59:57  <Nigel> i can't delete a section of road, even though i have Excellent LA rating
03:00:52  <Nigel> (It's a cresent)
03:01:17  <glx> where is this section of road?
03:01:36  <glx> is it connected to other section of road on both sides?
03:02:33  <BFM> place rail over it, delete it, gone. ^_^
03:02:39  <Nigel> a cresent is a road that connects to the same road in two places
03:02:42  <Nigel> BFM: let me see
03:03:12  <Nigel> BFM: nope
03:03:31  <Nigel> glx: it's basically two corners, with a section of road in between
03:03:37  <Nigel> (it went around a house)
03:03:51  <BFM> bugger
03:04:35  <glx> you can only remove road if it has only one connection
03:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> BFM: that has not worked in ages
03:04:50  <BFM> Heh, I haven't played it in about a year :$
03:05:06  <BFM> DOwnloaded 1.5 the other day though...
03:05:06  <Nigel> glx: right, but it links back, which is a bit annoying
03:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> Nigel: have you checked the patch setting that allows removal of additional roads?
03:05:37  <glx> BFM: where did you find it???
03:05:53  <Nigel> Eddi|zuHause3: bingo
03:05:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> i want to have version 1.5 too ;)
03:06:11  <Binky> Hi.
03:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> must have an awesome lot of new features :p
03:06:30  <BFM> oops!
03:06:39  <BFM> typo :P Busy working and chatting =\ my bad
03:06:42  <glx> and I think it doesn't need ttd files
03:07:11  <Binky> :P
03:07:42  <Binky> :?
03:07:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think it's really not TTD without TTD files ;)
03:08:09  <Binky> Nope. :p
03:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> (i.e. even if it does not NEED them, they would still be a nice-to-have)
03:08:40  <Binky> :?
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03:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> there are strange people around the internet...
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07:44:47  <blathijs> Rubidium: From reading the irc log, it seems this ubuntu guy just looked in the wrong directory? He didn't say where he "found" the files eventually
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08:42:28  <boekabart_> Could it be that networking is totally non-functional in 9055?
08:42:37  <boekabart_> first try 'protocol error'
08:42:44  <boekabart_> second try: server full
08:43:42  <boekabart_> after that smth about lost
08:43:44  <Rubidium> boekabart_: how did you get the binary? Nightly, self compiled?
08:43:59  <boekabart_> self
08:44:04  <Rubidium> with MSVC?
08:44:09  <boekabart_> vs2005 yes
08:45:02  <Rubidium> that allows you to connect to all and every server, but any server that has a revision that doesn't match your revesion will most likely give such errors
08:45:15  <Rubidium> you have to connect to a server with exactly the same revision
08:45:44  <Rubidium> but MSVC and subversion version fetching is almost impossibly to accomplish
08:49:48  <Rubidium> boekabart_: don't know whether you know how our network game works, but it is safe to assume that you need exactly the same revision (even the same local modifications) to be able to play the game without (much chance of) desyncs.
08:50:34  <boekabart_> it's same exe
08:50:49  <boekabart_> same exact folder copied to another system
08:52:25  <Rubidium> are you 100% certain that you are running the same binary, i.e. the other system might be running in another folder than the one you copied
08:53:41  <Rubidium> this question because it just works flawless on my system
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09:33:54  <boekabart_> did it again; started all from scratch
09:34:00  <boekabart_> same exe, 100% sure
09:34:12  <peter1138> flawlessly
09:34:39  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Client 4 made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received strange packet'
09:34:59  <boekabart_> after joining company 'UNNAMED' and entering server password
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09:36:29  <Rubidium> ah, that's much better (now I get it too)
09:36:48  <boekabart_> I have a full report, shall i put in on flyspray?
09:37:02  <Rubidium> you can do that
09:40:18  <boekabart_> exe trunk@9055, built with vs2005
09:40:18  <boekabart_> Server started with:
09:40:19  <boekabart_> openttd -D -f scenario\myScen.scn  [Scenario just created with same exe]
09:40:19  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [core] starting network...
09:40:19  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [core] loading windows socket library
09:40:20  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [core] network online, multiplayer available
09:40:20  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses:
09:40:22  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] 0)
09:40:22  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] 1)
09:40:26  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Listening on
09:40:26  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [udp] listening on port
09:40:28  <boekabart_> *** Game paused (not enough players)
09:40:28  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [udp] queried from ''
09:40:28  <boekabart_> < CLIENT CLICKS JOIN >
09:40:30  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [udp] queried from ''
09:40:30  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Client connected from on frame 1769
09:40:32  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 2
09:40:32  <boekabart_> < CLIENT CLICKS ON TOP OF COMPANY LIST >
09:40:34  <boekabart_> < CLIENT CLICKS CANCEL >
09:40:34  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [udp] queried from ''
09:40:36  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] [udp] queried from ''
09:40:36  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Client connected from on frame 3709
09:40:38  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 3
09:40:38  <boekabart_> < CLIENT CLICKS JOIN >
09:40:40  <boekabart_> < CLIENT: List lists 1 company (where did it come from) UNNAMED >
09:40:40  <boekabart_> < CLIENT Clicks Join company >
09:40:42  <boekabart_> < CLIENT asks for server password, entered correctly >
09:40:42  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Client connected from on frame 3896
09:40:44  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Client 4 made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received strange packet'
09:40:44  <boekabart_> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 4
09:40:46  <boekabart_> < CLIENT: network game connection lost >
09:40:46  <boekabart_> SORRY!!!
09:40:48  <boekabart_> SORRY! that was a bad paste
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09:40:56  <boekabart_> what I meant to write: CLIENT: A protocol error was made and the network connection was lost
09:41:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9060 /branches/gamebalance/src/fixedt.h: [gamebalance] -Add: Added the two basic trigonometric functions (sine / cosine) for variables of types FixedT, so that we can compute periodic fluctuations.
09:41:59  <boekabart_> Posted:
09:46:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9061 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [r9038, FS#668]: passwords are send when the server is in the 'authorizing' state, not 'inactive'.
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09:47:30  <Rubidium> that should fix it
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10:23:48  <boekabart_> Rubidium: Tryin...
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10:56:54  <boekabart_> Rubidium: You da man, fixed
10:57:32  <boekabart_> Now this (was already in 9055: dbg: [net] [core] shutting down network   takes forever. (more than 5 minutes at least). Always, even when no client has been connected at all (start -> quit)
10:59:44  <Rubidium> boekabart_: the only thing OTTD does is call WSACleanup
11:00:02  <boekabart_> that's a winsock fn?
11:02:15  <Rubidium> yup
11:03:14  <Rubidium> or there must be trouble with closing the video, music or sound drivers, saving the config
11:06:57  <boekabart_> it's a -D server
11:07:52  <Rubidium> then it's strange
11:08:10  <Rubidium> but hardly anything I can debug as I haven't experienced it myself nor do I have windows
11:08:21  <boekabart_> i'll try to dbg
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11:31:49  <boekabart_> It's strange
11:32:11  <boekabart_> everything shuts down OK, tdd_main and WinMain return 0, then locks
11:32:19  <boekabart_> as if it's waiting for a thread to terminate?
11:33:34  <Rubidium> how long does saving a small game (128x128) take?
11:35:25  <boekabart_> I know. The CheckForConsoleInput thread is still waiting for console imput
11:35:31  <boekabart_> if i press enter again after quit, it quite
11:35:32  <boekabart_> quits
11:37:55  <boekabart_> The console thread isn't terminated until fgets returns :(
11:39:57  <Rubidium> ok, that's something I cannot fix. You can either talk with glx or make a report @ flyspray so I get remembered so I can glx look at it
11:44:35  <boekabart_> i'll make a rept
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12:26:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9062 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix (r4822, FS#595): The station list, sorted by cargo rating, now takes stations into account that have no cargo waiting (KeeperOfTheSoul). While at it, doxygen the function
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12:40:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9063 /trunk/ -Add: allow OPENTTD_ARGS as env-option for 'make run'. 'OPENTTD_ARGS="-snull" make run' now runs ./openttd -snull in correct dir.
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12:44:21  <ln-> is lim n^n / n!, n->oo  something else than infinity?
12:45:39  <Rubidium> it's 0 afaik
12:46:27  <Rubidium> oh, uhm.. no, it should be inifinity
12:46:31  <Rubidium> why?
12:46:55  * Rubidium should think that n^n is equivalent to n*n :)
12:47:54  <ln-> i have such a math exercise here, and i'm always suspicious when the answer seems to be so obvious.
12:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> infinity sounds alright
12:48:02  <Rubidium> it's infinity because n*n*n*...*n > n*(n-1)*(n-2)*...*1
12:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> ">" is not a real argument ;)
12:48:20  <peter1138> n^n and n*n are equivalent?
12:48:39  <Rubidium> peter1138: s/should/shouldn't/ :)
12:48:56  <peter1138> oh
12:50:52  <ln-> e^(2n)/4^n, n->oo is also infinity in my opinion.
12:51:05  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: true, but looking at the sequence you can see that n^n is at least infinite times larger than n!, because in that the 1 in n! is infinite in n^n
12:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: that one's easy, just transform it to (e^2/4)^n
12:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> then q^n goes to infinity for q>1
12:53:36  <ln-> oh yes
12:54:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> to the first one, i'd probably prove that n!/n^n goes to 0 (by quotient criterium for example), then the inverse goes to infinity, obviously
12:55:26  <ln-> fortunately this exercise does not ask for a proof. :)
12:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's because it is always asked implicitly for proof
12:57:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> and "some guy on IRC told me" is hardly a valid explanation ;)
12:57:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9064 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#663]: don't keep on scrolling for non-numeric values in settings, but require reclick
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13:05:27  <Progman> \o/
13:14:51  <jordi> blathijs: are we ready to upload?
13:14:53  <jordi> what's missing?
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13:54:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9065 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: possible dereference of NULL pointer.
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14:10:00  <blathijs> jordi: Uh, nothing really I think :-)
14:10:31  <blathijs> jordi: I was going to wait for my laptop to be fixed, so I had my original build environment, but the RMA folks screwed up
14:10:58  <blathijs> jordi: But I have a source package ready, it's just unsigned atm
14:12:13  <blathijs> jordi: I have the files at
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14:21:16  <jordi> blathijs: I need to build it myself so if you have a source I can look at, I'll upload.
14:21:20  <jordi> okay
14:21:24  <jordi> mm
14:21:28  <jordi> my key is offline atm
14:21:34  <jordi> but that shouldn't be ap roblem
14:21:46  <jordi> there's plenty of people wh can sign it for me
14:22:52  <Smoovious> is there an index that shows which news items are linked to which news category? (say for example, I wanted to see all of the news items that will be displayed in the NT_GENERAL category?)
14:25:28  <jordi> blathijs: uh are we in alioth yet?
14:28:06  <jordi> - -- Matthijs Kooijman <>  Mon, 23 May 2005 13:04:24 +0200
14:28:09  <jordi> + -- Matthijs Kooijman <>  Mon, 23 May 2005 13:04:24 +0200
14:28:13  <jordi> blathijs: why this change?
14:28:38  <blathijs> ah, because my build env is different
14:28:41  <jordi> you should use the same address as what is declared in debian/control
14:28:50  <jordi> yeah, but I fixed it in my diff
14:28:53  <jordi> now it's back
14:29:01  <blathijs> I didn't have EMAIL set in this environment yet
14:29:10  <jordi> DEBEMAIL better
14:29:13  <blathijs> jordi: It's just for the latest entry, right?
14:29:17  <jordi> nope
14:29:19  <jordi> there's a few
14:29:20  <blathijs> hmm,
14:29:24  <blathijs> lemme see
14:29:31  <jordi> I'll sed it, don't worry
14:29:51  <jordi> what about collab-maint?
14:30:05  <blathijs> (I was looking at importing my svn to collab-maint right now)
14:30:38  <jordi> wait a bit then
14:30:48  <jordi> so you can import the final 0.5.0-1
14:31:06  <blathijs> not import the history?
14:31:12  <jordi> oh
14:31:19  <jordi> you already have asvn tree?
14:31:29  <blathijs> yes
14:31:32  <jordi> oh I see
14:31:36  <blathijs> 76 revs :-)
14:31:37  <jordi> okay
14:31:47  <hylje> ?
14:31:50  <jordi> I guess I have no access to collab-maint tho
14:31:53  <jordi> let me ping #alioth
14:34:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9066 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix [FS#638]: store the owner of a statue, so when it gets removed, the town is notified of it
14:36:47  <jordi> blathijs:   [ Jordi Mallach ]
14:36:47  <jordi>   * Depend on ${misc:Depends}, not debconf directly.
14:36:55  <jordi> I added this
14:37:15  <jordi> blathijs: so I already have access to collab-maint, being a dd
14:37:18  <jordi> so all is good
14:37:35  <jordi> import your stuff and I'll commit this stuff and go for a final build.
14:38:34  <jordi> blathijs: hrm, bad. Something convereted my precious utf-8 ca.po to latin1.
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14:38:55  <Smoovious> yay's to FS#638
14:39:55  <Rubidium> Smoovious: won't make it into 0.5 though
14:40:15  <Smoovious> that's ok... just so long as it is in there somewhere
14:40:28  <Smoovious> I'm still working on my own task right now...
14:40:47  <blathijs> jordi: ah, that might be svn or something. I think I screwed up the encoding somewhere
14:40:48  <jordi> er isn't 0.5 released?
14:40:52  <jordi> nod
14:40:52  <Smoovious> think when I finish this I might go through and try to compile a list of all of the news items, and what category they belong to
14:40:53  <blathijs> it is
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14:41:11  <jordi> blathijs: I made a minor change to the template:
14:41:16  <Smoovious> something I have always wanted to have since TTDO
14:41:22  <jordi> TTD -> Transport Tycoon Deluxe, for clarity
14:41:26  <Smoovious> er TTO
14:41:28  <Smoovious> not TTD
14:41:36  <Smoovious> er, not TTDO
14:41:37  <jordi> uh?
14:41:42  <Smoovious> original
14:41:52  <ln-> jordi: he's talking about something else
14:41:57  <Smoovious> ya
14:42:02  <jordi> OpenTTD needs the data files from the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe game [...]
14:42:02  <Smoovious> sorry, jordi
14:42:10  <jordi> oh, ok, heh
14:42:15  * Smoovious grins.
14:42:46  * Smoovious goes back to trying to figure out which news items belongs to NT_GENERAL
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14:44:44  <ln-> jordi: is there a habit of indicating trademarks with a (R) or something, because Transport Tycoon Deluxe is a registered one.
14:45:00  <jordi> I was wondering
14:45:07  <jordi> I think I should add it
14:45:18  <jordi> but that'd be (TM), not ®?
14:45:23  * Smoovious tips his black hat™.
14:45:33  <ln-> ® for registered...
14:46:27  <jordi> ln-: doesn't use this afaict
14:46:40  <jordi> "OpenTTD is a clone of the Microprose game "Transport Tycoon Deluxe", a popular game originally written by Chris Sawyer."
14:47:08  <ln-> jordi: but they don't seem to be using ® at all, not with Microprose® either.
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14:47:54  <ln-> actually "Transport Tycoon" is the registered trademark, the Deluxe is not.
14:47:55  <Smoovious> well, at the time, I don't think they had much in the way of unicode available, since it was originally a DOS game
14:48:05  <ln->  (this link may not work)
14:48:35  <ln-> ® never required unicode.
14:48:53  <Smoovious> depending on the code-page in use
14:48:59  <jordi> ® is nice latin1
14:49:40  <Smoovious> anyways, not my problem. :) >goes back to work<
14:49:51  <jordi> bah
14:49:52  <jordi> you win
14:49:55  <jordi> I'll add the ®
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14:51:20  <ln-> this line is interesting: Renewal  1ST RENEWAL 20060926
14:51:46  <jordi> wow yes
14:52:52  <jordi> blathijs: I'm ready to go now
14:53:02  <blathijs> jordi: I'm importing the svn, just a moment
14:53:05  <jordi> if you import, I'll commit and build out of svn
14:53:06  <jordi> k
14:53:10  <blathijs> jordi: makes it easier to share stuff :-)
14:53:16  <jordi> yeah :D
14:55:16  <blathijs> hmm, I just remembered that my alioth account might be borked
14:55:54  <blathijs> they screwed up something a while back, but probably ssh and svn should still work I think
14:56:31  <jordi> yeah they fucked up big time
14:56:39  <jordi> so
14:56:50  <jordi> can of worms opening
14:57:00  <jordi> has anyone considered autotools for openttd? :)
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14:57:54  <jordi> dpkg-deb: building package `openttd' in `../openttd_0.5.0-1_amd64.deb'.
14:57:56  <jordi> woot
14:57:59  <Ailure> hmm
14:58:16  <Ailure> :o
14:58:19  <Ailure> Mergeable
14:58:53  <blathijs> jordi: good, my ssh account still works
14:58:59  <jordi> great
15:02:09  <jordi> lintian is quiet about the .deb
15:02:10  <jordi> good
15:03:06  <peter1138> autotools == yuck
15:04:06  <jordi> static makefiles aren't too portable tho
15:04:40  <jordi> blathijs: I'm publishing these debs & sources so our secret ftpmaster can see
15:05:49  <Rubidium> jordi: most of the makefile system is rewritten, but that won't hit stable releases until 0.6
15:06:13  <jordi> Rubidium: nod, but it's still a static system, right?
15:06:33  <jordi> I wonder how it'd react to a kfreebsd-amd64 compilation, for example
15:07:05  <Rubidium> probably not very well
15:07:17  <Rubidium> though I wonder how autotools works in mingw
15:07:18  * jordi hails blathijs to get the inject done
15:07:22  <Rubidium> or a crosscompiler
15:07:36  <blathijs> jordi: I'm currently multitasking with some other project, so have patience ;-)
15:07:41  <jordi> okay
15:08:15  <jordi> blathijs: in any case, our man is interested in having a look (read, probably letting the packages in soonish) but is now at work. We'll ping again tonight
15:09:05  <ln-> would those go into unstable/main or what?
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15:11:21  <blathijs> jordi: importing now
15:11:44  <blathijs> jordi: good point, they would be contrib  I think? Since you need datafiles?
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15:24:56  <blathijs> jordi: It should be done
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15:25:51  <blathijs> /svn/collab-maint/deb-maint/openttd
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15:29:51  <jordi> blathijs: it goes in contrib
15:32:44  <jordi> looks great
15:33:33  <blathijs> now, let's see how I can get my alioth password back :-)
15:33:38  <ln-> argument: `cat' should go into contrib, because it doesn't ship with proper input files. :)
15:34:13  <jordi> ln-: bzzt :P
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15:34:41  <jordi> there's plenty of proper free files in the main section
15:34:49  <jordi> but no data files in main :)
15:38:13  <blathijs> We could argue that openttd is a grf file viewer :-)
15:38:25  <Sacro> blathijs: it is :)
15:39:59  <ln-> will we see openttd in etch, or the next one?
15:41:33  <Smoovious> does it matter what order the variables in variables.h struct Patches is in?
15:43:21  <peter1138> no
15:43:42  <Smoovious> coo
15:43:44  <Smoovious> thnx
15:44:03  * Smoovious scribbles notes.
15:44:50  <blathijs> ln-: unsure
15:50:07  <ln-> or the one after that...
15:50:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9067 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#637]: don't make owner signs transparent, as then you loose the information who it owns
15:50:31  <Smoovious> which lang file should I make additions to, or won't it matter?
15:50:54  <blathijs> jordi: We should probably bump the version to -2, to prevent confusion with the release on SF
15:52:12  <jordi> mkay
15:52:39  <jordi> the changes are not important though
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16:02:34  <blathijs> jordi: still, best not confuse them I guess
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16:08:39  <jordi> blathijs: I expect we'll be required to do changes when ftpmaster reviews
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16:12:07  <blathijs> jordi: So you propose making -2 after those changes?
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16:14:18  <Sacro_> how strange
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16:24:59  <jordi> blathijs: yeah
16:25:11  <jordi> blathijs: Debian is getting the final one only anyway
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16:28:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9068 /trunk/src/ (46 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: capitalize the VEH_Train etc. enums to match the coding style (and rest of the code).
16:28:08  <blathijs> jordi: yes, but I'll probably rerelease the final one on SF too, for debian/stable
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16:31:47  <Roel_> cd
16:31:52  <jordi> blathijs: nod
16:32:06  <jordi> blathijs: let's wait, and I'll release it as -2.
16:38:15  <Smoovious> Rubidium... if I need to add something to a lang file, does it matter which one I add it to? or is there one in particular I should make additions to, for later translating?
16:38:39  <peter1138> yes
16:38:41  <peter1138> english.txt
16:38:51  <Smoovious> ok... >closes american.txt<
16:39:24  <Rubidium> Smoovious: you could have found that out yourself very easily
16:39:59  <Smoovious> well, I still figuring out how the group does things...
16:40:42  <Rubidium> well, adding something to the wrong file that isn't in the 'master' file will complain about it not being in the master file
16:41:33  <Smoovious> and which is the 'master' file?
16:41:40  * Smoovious grins.
16:42:33  <glx> master file is english.txt
16:43:02  * Smoovious nods.
16:43:08  <Smoovious> which wasn't self-evident
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17:00:04  <dihedral> hi
17:00:44  <dihedral> let me start bombarding you guys with q's again...
17:00:55  <dihedral> random seed
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17:01:12  <dihedral> in more than 2000 games
17:01:22  <dihedral> a certain seed appert 4 times
17:01:52  <dihedral> it was 4294967295
17:02:21  <dihedral> as this is the last number before a new bit is used, could a be that this seed is never actually generated, only set?
17:02:28  <dihedral> i mean
17:02:45  <dihedral> when the mag has not been generated - random seed has this value
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17:02:58  <dihedral> *net yet been generated...
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17:14:00  <dihedral> dont shout all at once :)
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17:31:22  <Wolf01> hello
17:32:48  <dihedral> hi
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17:44:43  <dihedral> Wolf01: you know anything about the random seed?
17:44:52  <Wolf01> i know something
17:45:18  <dihedral> 4294967295 is set before a game map has been generated
17:45:29  <dihedral> is it also possible that this seed is generated
17:46:07  <dihedral> i ran a test on a dedicated server, starting new games over 2000 times
17:46:18  <dihedral> and saving the seed in a file each time
17:46:33  <dihedral> comparing all the seeds in that file at the end gave me 4 time 4294967295
17:47:02  <dihedral> but this seed is also seet inbetween issueing 'newgame' and the map being generated
17:47:24  <Wolf01> maybe the random function is initialized one time
17:47:47  <dihedral> so i am not sure if my test managed to issue the getseed too fast and therefore was executed in between
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17:48:09  <Wolf01> i offten use system ticks ad system time to initialize the random seed, so is impossible or really hard to have the same sequence of numbers
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17:49:15  <dihedral> it would muck up my sql database if it did happen...
17:49:56  <Wolf01> eh, never use a value which might be generated 2 times as primary key
17:50:07  <dihedral> yeah - i know that
17:50:32  <dihedral> that is why i am not writing to the db yet :-) and why i ran a test :-)
17:50:54  <Wolf01> and random is random, you might get the same value also 10 times in sequence
17:51:17  <dihedral> yeah
17:52:03  <dihedral> is there anything else that is constant during the same game but changes for the next game?
17:52:32  <Wolf01> maybe you should use the date+hour, like 030820071852
17:52:50  <dihedral> yeah - that aint available form the console right now is it
17:52:56  <Wolf01> this number shouldn't happen two times
17:53:04  <dihedral> :-)
17:54:14  <Wolf01> i think is simple to add a function which returns that number every time ottd is restarted
17:54:31  <Wolf01> *if a game is restarted
17:54:53  <dihedral> well - it is simple enough to add a command to the dedicated server without having to update all clients as it only outputs data
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19:23:12  * Smoovious crosses his fingers waiting for the compile to finish.
19:24:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9069 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Change a do ... while loop with a for loop. This fixes some warning that I never got anyway...
19:24:14  <MiHaMiX> Smoovious: it's already finished.
19:24:22  <MiHaMiX>  Compile Farm: nightly (r9068) completed. More details:
19:24:22  <Smoovious> no, mine
19:24:28  <MiHaMiX> Smoovious: ahh :)
19:24:33  <Smoovious> I'm doing a patch
19:24:48  <Smoovious> just a tiny one, but still, one that I know a bunch of people ask for
19:25:01  * Smoovious grins.
19:25:17  <Smoovious> enough for me to get used to how the team is arranging things, without getting overwhelmed
19:25:51  <Smoovious> first compile had 1 error, but it was only a typo... an I instead of a |
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19:27:08  <Smoovious> what it does is makes opening/closing industry news show up as General news instead of Economy news...
19:27:26  <Smoovious> probably could have made a more elegant solution but for the time being, it'll do
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19:33:44  * Smoovious grins.
19:33:46  <Smoovious> 0 errors
19:33:56  <peter1138> that's what they all say
19:34:37  <peter1138> question is
19:34:43  <peter1138> what requires testing?
19:35:42  <MiHaMiX> Smoovious: could you please upload your patch if possible? :)
19:36:37  <Smoovious> well, I suppose I changed that tag too early...
19:36:48  <Smoovious> trying it out right now as we speak...
19:36:59  <antichaos> Hi all.  I want to make a patch which adds a property (annual budget) to each industry, but I'm having some trouble understanding the relationship between the Industry and IndustrySpec structs in terms of the way everything is initialised.
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19:38:55  <Smoovious> grr... getting errors... openttd.grf corrupt or missing... and invalid version of language pack
19:39:10  <antichaos> is anyone able to give me a bit of an overview?
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19:39:49  <MiHaMiX> antichaos: apart from sorry, no
19:39:52  <Rubidium> Smoovious: set the 'working directory' for running from MSVC to /bin/
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19:40:24  <blathijs> antichaos: I would expect that each Industry (there is one of these for every industry on a map) gets initialized from an IndustrySpec (there is probably one of these for each industry type)
19:40:44  <Smoovious> yeah, remembered that from before... think I already took care of it
19:40:45  <blathijs> antichaos: But I'm completely unfamiliar with that part of the code, so I can't really give you more details
19:40:51  <Smoovious> I wasn't using the right files
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19:42:17  <Smoovious> ugh... ok, not showing in the patch menu... so I missed something somewhere
19:43:25  <Wolf01> last patches update, no more updates from today, and i think i won't put my hands again on the code, was funny to make new things :)
19:43:55  <Smoovious> what were ya workin' on, Wolf01?
19:44:19  <Wolf01> daylength, transparency, and some other patches
19:44:55  <Smoovious> nice
19:45:04  <antichaos> thanks blathijs.
19:45:51  * Smoovious goes and tries to hunt down why his patch config item isn't showing on the patch menu
19:46:15  <antichaos> That is my other to add to the patch menu
19:46:34  * Rubidium suggests
19:46:57  <Smoovious> nah, that's too easy
19:47:07  <Smoovious> learn more just looking :D
19:47:11  * peter1138 suggests settings_gui.cpp
19:47:23  <Smoovious> like, "oooo... what's this interesting bit of code here..." sidetracking me
19:47:30  <Smoovious> yeah, already have that open
19:47:39  <Smoovious> but don't think I got it quite right in there
19:48:54  <antichaos> ahh, found it on the wiki. thanks
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20:42:05  <antichaos> ok, I think I've deciphered the initialisation stuff.  Now to add the new properties  to the industry info window.
20:43:04  <Smoovious> oops... hehe... forgot to include the patch in the *_patches_ui[] list. :D
20:43:43  <Smoovious> I saw it when I started, just didn't remember to go back to it...
20:46:50  <blathijs> antichaos: :-)
20:49:42  <Smoovious> ?
20:50:00  <Smoovious> but... but... I like chaos...
20:50:02  * Smoovious pouts.
20:50:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9070 /trunk/src/ (station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#404]: if bribe failed and you didn't pick up cargo yet, you wouldn't ever be able to do so for a given station
20:51:18  <Smoovious> how long would the effects of bribe failure last?
20:52:09  <carwe> 6 months?
20:52:32  <Smoovious> okee
20:52:57  <Smoovious> could probably make it longer... like, a few years, but so long as it isn't permanent
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20:59:05  <Bjarni> hehehe
20:59:48  <Bjarni> while I was looking for something completely different, I found a pic that I searched for when we talked about trains and ferries in here (if anybody can recall)
20:59:50  <Bjarni>
21:00:14  <Bjarni> now I guess most people forgot about that discussion and now I can't find a picture of what I was actually looking for
21:00:21  <Bjarni> I guess that's how the internet works
21:01:05  <Roel_> it's a medium to distract us from our tasks to create chaos :)
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21:04:05  <Smoovious> Rubidium... 'working directory'? ... VC2005... Configuration Properties -> General... Output Directory?
21:04:26  <Smoovious> grr... I had it set right at one point, but I think I overwrote the project file
21:05:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9071 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#459]: when in networking an other player takes over an AI which is also controlled by a player, move the player with the company to the company who bought out the AI
21:07:13  <Roel_> hmm, pre-signals are way to small to notice in high resolutions..
21:07:15  <|2rB> dir
21:07:55  <|2rB> sorry about that... two keyboards... Typed at the wrong one :/
21:08:05  <Smoovious> yeah, need another zoom level... even if it ends up looking pixelated
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21:09:12  <Digitalfox> Smoovious: 32bpp already have two more IN and OUT zooms, give it a try :)
21:09:18  <peter1138> as available in the 32bpp branch
21:09:21  <peter1138> bah, too slow
21:09:26  <Smoovious> when I get some extra time... :)
21:09:47  <Digitalfox>
21:10:02  <Digitalfox> If you don't want to waste time compiling :)
21:10:18  <Smoovious> grr... ya know, at one point I had the compiled openttd.exe just dropping right into the bin directory instead of the objs tree, but now I can't quite get it to work again
21:10:36  <Smoovious> nah, I wanna waste time compiling... more I do it the more comfortable I'll be with this compiler
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21:21:33  <ln-> Bjarni: are those diesel units because wires to ship would be difficult to implement?
21:22:21  <Bjarni> partly yes
21:22:43  <Bjarni> also because around half of the tracks they use lacks catenary
21:22:59  <Bjarni> they still use diesel even though they finished a bridge
21:24:17  <Bjarni> it became a lot easier to handle the loading/unloading of the ferries after they switched from loco pulled trains to DMUs
21:33:03  <antichaos> Is it necessary for a patch option to affect everything the patch changes, even small alterations of windows?
21:33:37  <blathijs> no
21:34:00  <blathijs> There is no patch option for every patch ever committed, fortunately
21:34:30  <blathijs> But you should be careful not to include unneccesary and unrelated changes in your patch, since that makes debugging harder
21:34:31  <antichaos> so I don't need to be able to swap between the old and new versions of the window I'm changing - just hide or show the additional fields?
21:34:47  <blathijs> What are you coding exactly?
21:35:10  <antichaos> I'm adding annual budgets to secondary industries.
21:35:35  <blathijs> which means? :-)
21:35:56  <blathijs> Factories can only "buy" so much resources each year from companies?
21:36:35  <antichaos> it means limiting acceptance by total cost, rather than just gargo volume
21:36:43  <Smoovious> ahh... limited production capacity... I think a GRF does something like that, but OTTD doesn't support it yet
21:36:50  <Nigel> I *think* I found a bug in the pathfinder
21:36:56  <antichaos> so industries will prefer cheaer cargo
21:37:21  <Bjarni> Nigel: I *think* you better tell us more ;)
21:37:37  <blathijs> antichaos: ah
21:37:49  <blathijs> antichaos: anyway, patch option for non-functional changes to a window is not needed, IMO
21:38:17  <antichaos> ok.  This isn't indented to be production grade anyway
21:38:19  <Nigel> Bjarni: I follow "I *think*" with yes there is, or no there isn't once i've determined it
21:39:09  <Bjarni> so you are going to test for the next 3 months until you all of a sudden say yes or no?
21:39:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9072 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: [Orders] added methods to orders to free them and check if they are in use
21:40:24  <antichaos> I'm just interested in adding some extra feedback into the economy to make the
21:40:35  <antichaos> game more strategic
21:40:39  <Nigel> no, i'm just making some changes to my network removing the possible causes
21:41:21  <antichaos> Not everyone's into this though
21:41:45  <ln-> when will we see ferries that can carry trucks and trains?
21:42:48  <Bjarni> ln-: you plan to code them? :P
21:44:22  <Bjarni> they are by design really tricky to implement
21:45:19  <Bjarni> also you will just build a bridge now. Bridges can always be build and are too cheap to really consider ships
21:45:27  <Bjarni> so we need to solve a balance issue as well
21:45:33  <Smoovious> could make bridges more expensive
21:45:51  <Smoovious> hell, I think terraforming should be more expensive too
21:46:13  <Bjarni> we need to rebalance the whole game
21:46:24  <Bjarni> and make 1 km/h = 1 km/h
21:46:44  <Bjarni> right now 1 km/h depends on what type of vehicle it measures
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21:47:11  <Bjarni> 1 km/h for road vehicles and ships = 2 km/h for trains
21:47:33  <Bjarni> so a ship moving at 32 km/h will move at the same speed as a train moving at 64 km/h
21:47:37  <Bjarni> not good
21:48:44  <antichaos> hmm. I'm getting a load of syntax errors in files I haven't changed.
21:49:19  <antichaos> we need pricing that depends on vehicle type, rather than speed depending on type
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21:49:45  <Bjarni> <antichaos>	hmm. I'm getting a load of syntax errors in files I haven't changed. <-- sounds like a incorrectly modified header file
21:50:10  <antichaos> you are correct
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21:50:25  <Bjarni> *an
21:50:55  <antichaos> oh course...all the includes
21:51:13  <antichaos> I'm old to programming but new to c++
21:51:24  <antichaos> projects of this size anyway
21:51:39  <KUDr> how old?
21:52:04  <antichaos> 10-15 years, on and off
21:52:12  <antichaos> mostly off though
21:52:35  <KUDr> you are 10-15 yrs old?
21:52:43  <Bjarni> damn
21:52:44  <Smoovious> sounds like me, antichaos... I'm over 20 since my last C programming
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21:52:48  <Bjarni> KUDr beat me to it
21:52:49  <antichaos> I'm 28
21:52:54  <Smoovious> <- 38
21:53:02  <KUDr> good
21:53:03  <Bjarni> heh
21:53:08  <Bjarni> I'm way older than that
21:53:28  <Bjarni>
21:53:32  <Smoovious> <- 38 5/6ths
21:53:41  <Smoovious> :D
21:53:43  * KUDr 41
21:54:04  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Damn you are old 1745 :) What's the formula to be that kind of old ...
21:54:09  <Smoovious> cool... at least I'm not the oldest person in this group... kinda get tired of holding the top spot so much ya kna?
21:54:11  <antichaos> no errors...
21:54:36  <Bjarni> <Digitalfox>	Bjarni: Damn you are old 1745 :) What's the formula to be that kind of old ... <-- godly powers, but I really shouldn't say such things
21:54:51  <Bjarni> I risk you start worshipping me
21:55:20  <Smoovious> no fear of that
21:55:23  * peter1138 considers the advantages of sleep
21:55:45  <peter1138> 21:46 <@Bjarni> 1 km/h for road vehicles and ships = 2 km/h for trains
21:55:45  <peter1138> 21:47 <@Bjarni> so a ship moving at 32 km/h will move at the same speed as a  train moving at 64 km/h
21:55:49  <peter1138> uh, that's bollocks
21:56:37  <Bjarni> are you sure?
21:56:40  <peter1138> yes
21:56:47  <Bjarni> it was like that the last time I checked
21:56:54  <Bjarni> but I didn't check for a while
21:57:00  <peter1138> no it wasn't
21:57:08  <peter1138> the internal units are different, yes
21:57:09  <antichaos> wohooo - it works - kinda
21:57:25  <peter1138> but the display takes that into account
21:57:34  <Bjarni> hmm
21:58:04  <Bjarni> so x in internal speed is type dependant... that really sucks
21:58:20  <Smoovious> maybe he was meaning planes and trains before the planespeeds were adjusted a few days ago
21:59:11  <peter1138> very strange way of saying so :p
21:59:16  <peter1138> yes, planes were 4x out
21:59:20  <peter1138> (not 8x as some think)
21:59:55  <Bjarni> so we should make internal speeds the same and then use the same conversion to displayed speeds
22:00:02  <Bjarni> or somebody will fuck this up eventually
22:00:58  <peter1138> only solution there is to make trains and planes use the same units as rvs and ships
22:03:13  <ln-> when and where will the first international OpenTTD development conference be held?
22:03:50  <Bjarni> ln-: a year ago@DV's
22:04:13  <Bjarni> it appears that you lag a lot
22:04:53  <ln-> participants: DV?
22:05:31  <Bjarni> damn. I just realised that my solution for allowing more orders will potentially cause desyncs. Even though it would be in rare cases, I will still need to rethink this :(
22:05:50  <Bjarni> <ln->	participants: DV? <-- how did you guess? :)
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22:06:46  <peter1138> btw, it's mph * 1.6, not km/h
22:08:01  <ln-> would glasgow be a natural choice?
22:08:32  <Bjarni> why would you want it to be in Glasgow?
22:08:49  <Bjarni> You want to take a swim in the Kelvin?
22:09:09  <Bjarni> or maybe the Clyde
22:10:05  <Bjarni> that could be arranged
22:10:06  <ln-> Bjarni:
22:11:27  <Bjarni> ahh
22:11:30  <Smoovious> hehe... just noticed the opening screen, how fast the planes are zipping around
22:11:41  <Smoovious> even the helicopters
22:11:52  * Bjarni notes this and will take a look next time he is in Glascow
22:11:59  <Bjarni> *Glasgow
22:12:13  <Bjarni> okok, it was a typo. Don't have a cow :P
22:13:27  <Bjarni> btw next time would also be my first time but that's besides the point
22:14:53  <Digitalfox> Oftopic, but a good software for cuting some parts of a video (avi), like taking things of the video not needed.. Some things are in the begining, middle and end.. I want to take the intro, credits, etc.. Making the file more smaller.. Any recomendations ??
22:15:20  <Digitalfox> Using windows XP
22:15:41  <ln-> virtualdub
22:16:04  <Digitalfox> It's easy?? I don't get a clue about some codecs required to decode and encode :)
22:16:30  <Bjarni> mpgtx <-- free app to do the tasks you mentioned, but it works on mpeg only (and maybe it lacks a windows port)
22:18:21  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:18:46  <Digitalfox> Going to give a shot with virtuadub :)
22:18:52  <Digitalfox> Opensource, nice
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22:28:49  <Bjarni> hmm
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23:05:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9073 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: moved autoreplace to a file of it's own (now autoreplace has a cmd and a gui file)
23:12:06  <Wolf01> night all
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23:25:51  <Smoovious> re:news messages... do messages you have set to 'off' in the settings even have to go into the news queue in the first place? TTDX behavior didn't do that... and would make showing already seen messages more useful
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23:31:10  <Smoovious> YES!!! :D muhahahahaha!!! :D my patch works. :D
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23:37:07  <Smoovious> patch posted to FS#525
23:38:21  <Smoovious> if it gets committed, it'll be in my name, won't it?
23:38:55  <glx> it will probably have a (Smoovious) in the log
23:40:20  * Smoovious pouts.
23:40:35  <Smoovious> ah well...
23:41:51  <ln-> you have used spaces instead of <tab> in variables.h. a serious crime.
23:43:04  <Smoovious> ah... well, they appear as spaces in VC when I tried to check... no biggy, a quick fix
23:44:03  <Smoovious> fixed... any others?
23:44:39  <glx> style is ok except what ln- said :)
23:45:08  <Smoovious> already dealt with
23:45:15  <Smoovious> :D
23:45:23  <glx> I know ;)
23:45:41  <Smoovious> I took plenty of time to get all my notes down on paper before I started changing anything
23:45:44  <Smoovious> habit
23:46:14  * Smoovious grins.
23:46:32  <Smoovious> hopefully it'll get 3 of my players finally off my back... pestering "is it done yet? is it done yet?"
23:47:02  <Smoovious> figured shifting them to General news was the simplest solution
23:47:27  <Smoovious> don't think we get overwhelmed by General news anyways
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