Log for #openttd on 9th March 2007:
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00:12:44  <KritiK> !logurl
00:13:08  <Smoovious> ?
00:13:44  <Sacro> ?
00:13:57  <Smoovious> o.O
00:14:12  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
00:14:18  <Sacro> O.o
00:14:25  <Smoovious> <.<
00:14:45  <KritiK> sorry, wrong channel $)
00:14:47  <Sacro> >.>
00:14:57  <Smoovious> ..!.,
00:15:27  <Sacro> ,.!..
00:15:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r9074 /trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp: -Codechange: win32 dedicated console now doesn't need an extra 'enter' to fully quit
00:18:40  <antichaos> well, I've successfully added my patch to the settings list and added the new properties to the savegame...
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00:19:33  <antichaos> all that remains is to make the new properties do something
00:20:29  <antichaos> Unfortunately this turned out to be a bit easier than I was expecting, which means I'll actually have to follow through on it.
00:21:31  <Smoovious> uh huh
00:22:15  <antichaos> I was kinda hoping it would be too hard, and then I'd be forced to leave it and go do some real work
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00:23:58  <Smoovious> sucks to be you then, huh
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00:55:14  <Smoovious> what has to happen at this point for the patch to make it to the repository
00:55:52  <Sacro> Smoovious: black magic and bribary
00:56:01  <Sacro> or sneaking svn commtis when nobody is looking
01:01:58  <Smoovious> can't help with bribery... but I think I got enough dragon's blood and other stuff for the former
01:03:38  <Smoovious> and I don't have commit privs
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01:22:29  <mikk36[EST]> damn, this time driver couldn't save me :(
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01:22:40  <mikk36> win gave bsod
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02:04:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9075 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Cleanup of industry_cmd (Step-7). Small step that is. The new industry messages do not need a series of tests. Only one property to use.
02:15:34  <Smoovious> that figures...
02:15:48  * Smoovious fixes his patch.
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02:18:59  <Rubidium> Smoovious: I do not use MSVC, so I just guessed something you can set in Eclipse to be available in MSVC (not that I use Eclipse for OTTD coding either)
02:19:24  <Smoovious> Eclipse?
02:20:40  <Rubidium>
02:22:34  <Smoovious> looking at the page... but short-form... what's it for?
02:24:32  <Sacro> Smoovious: ecllipse? its an IDE
02:24:52  <Smoovious> for what?
02:25:03  <Sacro> Smoovious: anything, tis plugin based
02:25:30  <Smoovious> uh huh...
02:25:45  <Sacro> i use eclipse-cdt for C/C++
02:25:47  <Smoovious> don't suppose there is less vagueness to it?
02:25:51  <Sacro> and phpclipse
02:25:55  <Sacro> and subclipse for svn
02:26:06  <Smoovious> but what does it actually DO
02:28:30  <Sacro> its a development environment
02:28:37  <Sacro> like Visual Studio
02:28:42  <Sacro> or Code::Blocks
02:28:47  <Sacro> or... emacs *shudders*
02:28:57  <Smoovious> oh... no thanks then... I'm good with what I have...
02:29:08  <glx> emacs is a tetris game :)
02:29:21  * Smoovious goes back to resolving the conflict between his patch and the commit belugas just did.
02:29:25  <Sacro> glx: emacs is almost an OS
02:29:55  * Sacro wonders if passing init=/bin/emacs would actually work
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02:33:57  <Belugas_Gone> Smoovious, do you need help?  it should be quite trivial to do
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02:37:01  <Smoovious> nah, it isn't too  bad a conflict... but one change you made looks like it directly affects one I made... I'm just updating it to reflect your change within mine
02:37:16  <Smoovious> no biggie
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02:41:13  <Belugas_Gone> good
02:41:34  <Smoovious> wave
02:42:34  <Belugas_Gone> by the way, you could use trinary operations, as someone pointed out to me...
02:44:13  <Smoovious> trinary?
02:44:26  <glx> test?true:false
02:44:43  <Sacro|Laptop> :filenotfound :)#
02:44:49  <Smoovious> ahh... haven't got that far up the curveyet :D
02:44:58  <Belugas_Gone> yes, that someone :D
02:48:53  <Smoovious> so something like "_patches.news_new_industry ? NT_GENERAL : NT_ECONOMY" instead of the if...else?
02:49:05  <glx> exactly that
02:49:24  <Smoovious> ok, give it a shot... was hoping to do it that way initially, but couldn't find the syntax
02:49:43  <Smoovious> :D
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03:04:22  <Smoovious> hmm... still here Belugas?
03:08:49  <Smoovious> ok, well... in industry_cmd.cpp, a change Belugas made was to add 'ind_spc->new_industry_text', while the closing industry section uses 'indspec->closure_text'... the ind_spc one wasn't there before when I did my patch, and in trying to redo my patch to reflect the change, the mismatch of ind_spc and indspec looks wrong... any suggestions about which it should be?
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03:15:09  <Belugas_Gone> i'm not entirely understanding your question...
03:15:11  <mikk36|lap> :)
03:15:25  <Belugas_Gone> new_industry_text is the new attribute i added,
03:15:38  <Smoovious> yeah
03:15:41  <Belugas_Gone> which is waht your patch sjhould use
03:16:07  <Belugas_Gone> now, ind_spc and indspec are variable names, so...
03:16:53  <Smoovious> and in the AddNewsItem() part, it now contains ind_spc->new_industry_text, where before it had a trinary... but, in the section for closing industries, the AddNewsItem() for that, uses indspec-> instead of ind_spc->
03:17:06  <Smoovious> ok, so they _should_ differ then
03:17:08  <Belugas_Gone> ind_spc was added since i needed two accesses to the spec.
03:17:34  * Smoovious nods.
03:17:38  <Belugas_Gone> for the closure, it is another IndustrySpec variable name.
03:17:42  <Smoovious> ok, that was the only thing nagging at me
03:18:01  <Smoovious> I'll have a diff in a sec
03:18:31  <Belugas_Gone> like, i could have a foo int and a Foo int, as long as they are on two different functions...
03:19:04  * Smoovious nods.
03:19:09  <Smoovious> so long as it was intentional
03:21:14  <Smoovious> diff posted
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03:41:01  <Belugas_Gone> Smoovious : ou have some tabs in your diff where spaces would be quite more adequate...
03:42:29  * Smoovious chuckles.
03:42:53  <Smoovious> I know I put some tabs in cuz someone said something about the spaces I used. :) so, which tabs specifically?
03:45:00  <glx> tabs for indent, spaces for comments aligning
03:45:20  <Smoovious> k
03:45:32  <Smoovious> I see them
03:45:51  <Belugas_Gone> +		AddNewsItem(	// includes  : Between "(" and "//", twice
03:46:11  <Belugas_Gone> and
03:46:46  <Belugas_Gone> +	bool news_new_industry;				// Show : between "...try;" and "// Sho..."
03:46:53  <Smoovious> the bool
03:46:57  * Smoovious nods.
03:48:24  <Smoovious> diff posted
03:48:53  <Smoovious> so, general rule, only tab indents
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03:54:05  <Belugas_Gone> yes
03:54:13  <Smoovious> good 'nuff
03:54:19  <Belugas_Gone> and space for comments, array aligment etc..
03:54:34  * Smoovious nods.
03:54:40  <Smoovious> did that last diff check out?
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04:16:46  <Belugas_Gone> better looking, Smoovious
04:18:30  <Smoovious> okee good
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05:06:20  <Belugas_Gone> aouch...
05:06:29  <Belugas_Gone> a cnahnge in window.h
05:06:34  <Belugas_Gone> fullre compile :(
05:07:19  <Smoovious> hmm?
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05:24:13  <Belugas_Gone> ho nothing, just a new widget type
05:32:48  <Belugas_Gone> tadam!
05:32:50  <Belugas_Gone>
05:33:10  <Belugas_Gone> what is boring, is that it does not change a think at all
05:33:17  <Belugas_Gone> visally, i mean
05:33:27  <Belugas_Gone> visually :S
05:33:42  <Belugas_Gone> where did i've learned to type????
05:33:57  <Belugas_Gone> i know! i'm not suppored to type this late
05:34:02  <Belugas_Gone> so good night
05:40:55  <Smoovious> wave
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09:15:38  <roboboy> what ports need to be opened to run an openttd server?
09:16:59  <Rubidium> !openttd ports
09:17:04  <Rubidium> !openttd port
09:17:05  <_42_> Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
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09:37:43  <Alltaken> hi guys
09:37:48  <Alltaken> long time no IRC
09:39:02  <roboboy> hello
09:39:24  <roboboy> do town name grfs work in openttd?
09:41:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never heard of those
09:42:26  <roboboy> i geuse i dont need em anyway
09:42:37  <roboboy> there are a few floating around
09:43:02  <roboboy> pikka made one for silly bu semi realistic Quensland names
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09:46:32  <peter1138> how do you misspell "guess" as "geuse"?
09:47:21  <roboboy> bah
09:48:33  <roboboy> how many features are in branches at the moment? significant ones like newhouses.
09:48:50  <roboboy> not including 32bpp
09:49:11  <peter1138> 32bpp isn't significant?
09:49:53  <roboboy> it is but its going to take a while to be finished and it is more about graphics than gameplay
09:50:25  <blathijs> peter1138: If it wasn't significant, it wouldn't need to be excluded from the list of "significant branches", now would it?
09:50:49  <roboboy> newhouses is the same in a way but its in the current realm of grfs and it will be able to be used straight away
09:50:57  <peter1138> oh, ok :p
09:53:00  * roboboy hopes lord of the pigs will update subsidaries when the current major branches get merged
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10:11:50  <Desolator> I found a bug =D
10:12:06  <MiHaMiX> Desolator: and it makes you happy? :P
10:12:14  <Desolator> yeah, it's funny
10:12:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9076 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#529]: the intercontinental airport used 'T-junction' runway sprites when there is no exit in the middle of the runway as in the city airport (skidd13).
10:12:18  <MiHaMiX> Desolator: anyhow, please report the bug at
10:12:21  <Desolator> moving tunnels instead of trucks
10:12:37  <MiHaMiX> Desolator: ??
10:13:05  <Desolator> some trucks have tunnels sprites...
10:13:29  <Desolator> first i'll upgrade to latest nightly
10:13:55  <MiHaMiX> Desolator: would be appreciated :)
10:14:58  <peter1138> hmm
10:15:01  <Desolator> partially fixed
10:16:01  <Desolator>
10:16:11  <Desolator> just 2 secs to upload
10:16:15  <Desolator> done
10:16:51  <peter1138> savegame?
10:17:02  <peter1138> not that i can look right now
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10:18:02  <Desolator> i'm filling a bug report
10:18:10  <MiHaMiX> fileing? :)
10:20:00  <Desolator> whatever
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10:22:36  <Desolator>
10:23:27  <MiHaMiX> thanks for your bug report
10:23:33  <Desolator> no problem
10:24:17  <peter1138> it's perfectly okay to fill a bug report
10:24:24  <peter1138> empty ones are the worst...
10:24:43  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: yeah
10:24:58  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: but usualy the verb is 'file' for bug report :)
10:25:10  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: at least, I know so
10:25:31  <Desolator> doesn't matter as lnog as the required info is provided
10:25:39  <Desolator> *long
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10:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> it might not be the greatest of idea to provide a publicly if you don't know if you have the permission to publish them
10:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> s/idea/ideas/
10:28:00  <Desolator> well...:">
10:28:27  <MiHaMiX> developer will delete the file after he downloaded
10:28:36  <Desolator> I really doubt that people will come there just to get the newgrfs I use
10:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not the point
10:29:15  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: without the GRF files in question we are unable to test the savegame
10:29:20  <Desolator> It's still better to provide one, since you don't even know what version the user has
10:29:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but it should not be public...
10:29:33  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: and developer has other thing to do then crawling the web for a given newgrf
10:30:08  <Desolator> I didn't shout all over the palce "Hey, guys, go to bug report X and get newgrfs Y, Z, T, I, L, etc.."
10:30:13  <Desolator> *place
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10:33:56  <Rubidium> Desolator: what is tempenh for newgrf?
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10:35:48  <Desolator> removed the tiles on pure grass
10:35:52  <Desolator> *removes
10:36:34  <Rubidium> also seems to replace vehicles with tunnels
10:36:42  <Desolator> hmm...
10:36:48  <Desolator> *tests*
10:37:52  <Desolator> hmmm, now I need to din out who actually coded it
10:37:55  <Desolator> *find
10:45:32  <peter1138> buggy grf or buggy loading of grf?
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11:06:51  <Rubidium> imho buggy GRF, because it replaces sprites that are definitelly within the big blob of vehicle sprites in trg1r.grf and the vehicles that get replaced are (without the grf) exactly the ones that correspond to the replaces sprites
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11:07:50  <peter1138> but it replaces with tunnel sprites?
11:09:28  <Rubidium> yes, they are replaced with tunnel sprites
11:09:40  <peter1138> oh, i see
11:09:48  <peter1138> it's trying to replace landscape, not vehicles :)
11:10:06  <Rubidium> but it's actually replacing vehicles too
11:10:18  <Rubidium> but then it should happen in TTDP too (I guess)
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11:11:13  <roboboy> does anyone have the grf so I can test it for you inttdp if you need it checking?
11:11:27  <peter1138> it's in the package in the bug report
11:11:33  <peter1138>
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11:15:46  <Rubidium> roboboy: check the DW Coal truck, Foster MkII Superbus or Perry Mail Truck (they all show up with tunnel parts in the new road vehicles window)
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11:20:40  <roboboy> yep it occurs in the latest patch nightly
11:22:05  <Rubidium> ok, then we'll blame it on the buggy GRF
11:23:06  <peter1138> thanks roboboy
11:23:18  <peter1138> can i close? ;p
11:23:37  <Rubidium> peter1138: if you've got enough rights you can :)
11:23:49  <peter1138> of course i do
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11:36:06  <roboboy> do you guys know of any free programs that remove the vocals from a song?
11:36:38  <Tefad> it doesn't often work easily
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11:36:56  <illu> hi
11:37:15  * Rubidium knows there is/was some xmms plugin, but the amount of vocal removed was not that big
11:37:16  <Tefad> it assumes the vocals are coming out of both channels in the same phase.
11:37:29  <Tefad> (and intensity)
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11:49:22  <antichaos> what is happening about the cargo-packets branch?  is it going to be done as part of the gamebalance stuff?
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12:01:16  * roboboy bed soon
12:02:56  <peter1138> nothing is happening with cargo packets, afaik
12:03:12  <antichaos> now, or ever?
12:03:15  <peter1138> now
12:04:14  <roboboy> gnight
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12:06:12  <antichaos> ok, I'll have to do the what-industries-are-around-the-originating-station thing
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14:41:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9077 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp table/elrail_data.h table/sprites.h): -Fix [FS#612]: the wrong catenary wires were drawn for tunnel entrances.
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14:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> whoeee, does that fix the dutch catenary sticking out behind tunnel entrances?
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14:54:58  <Rubidium> should do so, at least it fixes the Czech one :)
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14:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> narf... every time... i can't do "cd../.." like i used to under dos
15:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> -                       if (IsRailDepot(ti->tile)) {
15:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> +                       if ( IsRailDepot(ti->tile)) {
15:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> do i have to understand that change?
15:02:47  <Rubidium> no
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15:12:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9078 /trunk/src/elrail.cpp: -Codechange: coding style.
15:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, seems to apply to miniin with minor adjustments, now there is an additional pylon drawn before tunnel entrances
15:18:48  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: you can work around that by aliasing AFAIK
15:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had to delete the "PAL_NONE" from AddSortableSpriteToDraw, and it complained about mixed declarations and code, but it's not a big deal
15:20:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> seems to work fine
15:21:40  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: move the declaration to before the code and it will be ok foo C
15:21:44  <glx> *for
15:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i made {} around it, so it's now at the start of a block ;)
15:22:14  <glx> works too :)
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15:43:00  <Smoovious> is there a way I can look up the status of my patch?
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15:44:43  <Smoovious> nevermind... TrueLight left a note on FS... basically thanks, but we'll do it ourselves... >sighs<
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15:47:43  <Rubidium> Smoovious: putting that news item in another category doesn't solve the issue, because that other category will also be spammed with messages
15:48:15  <Rubidium> making a new category for this specific kind of news is the solution.
15:48:25  <Smoovious> spammed with what messages?
15:49:07  <Smoovious> and I didn't go creating news categories cuz last time I brought it up I got more negative than positive comments about it... so trying to keep from changing things too much, that seemed the simplest way
15:49:24  <Smoovious> hell, if I got the idea that I could reorganize the news system itself, I would have done that
15:50:22  <Smoovious> anyways... gonna revert and pick something else to work on... wouldja mind assigning FS#532 to me?
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17:13:48  <mikk36> hey
17:13:50  <mikk36> Brianetta,here ?
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17:29:39  <Guest721> hi all
17:29:59  <Guest721> i'm running openttd on ubuntu desktop
17:30:19  <Guest721> and I can't find the openttd.cfg file
17:30:36  <Guest721> or do they store it in another way, on ubuntu desktop?
17:30:51  <Guest721> it = game configuration
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17:32:34  <Dominic> in another way to what?  Probably in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
17:33:06  <Brianetta> mikk36: Here
17:33:34  <mikk36> atm in the coop server, there is some jap setup ?
17:33:53  <Brianetta> Don't know.  Check the wiki.
17:33:56  <mikk36> hm,ok
17:34:03  <Brianetta> I haven't been on the sandbox since 0.5 came out.
17:34:05  <mikk36> although,i think i got my prob solver
17:34:08  <mikk36> solved*
17:34:12  <mikk36> found the previous grf setup
17:34:15  <mikk36> conf
17:34:31  <Brianetta> Have you joinrd #openttdcoop?
17:34:53  <Brianetta> That's the coop's channel
17:34:59  <nonamer> ah found it, thanks Dominic!
17:35:00  <mikk36> i know
17:35:06  <mikk36> but i'm hosting my own server
17:35:26  <nonamer> I'm a noob at these sort of executable dirs
17:35:34  <Brianetta> They're still more likely to be able to answer your questions about their setup
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17:35:43  <nonamer> don't even know the right name for it
17:35:44  <mikk36> :)
17:35:58  <mikk36> will check there if in need
17:36:07  <mikk36> k, idle now
17:36:13  <mikk36> tdu time
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17:51:13  <Vikthor> Rubidium: Thank you for fixing FS#612 :)
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17:57:37  <dihedral> silly question, but i have to ask :-)
17:58:10  <dihedral> how bad would it actually be to have openttd run an executable at some point here or there?
17:58:31  <dihedral> rather than reading out a .src file
17:58:36  <dihedral> run a .sh file?
17:59:07  <Smoovious> ...
17:59:48  <dihedral> thinking linux here
18:00:40  <dihedral> eg the file scripts/on_server_connect.scr
18:00:59  <dihedral> whenever a client connects the contest are read and run as a console command
18:01:05  <Brianetta> dihedral: Search the forum for autopilot
18:01:14  <dihedral> i know autopilot
18:01:21  <dihedral> it's a wrapper
18:01:26  <Brianetta> So just get it to run a script when somebody connects
18:01:38  <Brianetta> or a binary
18:01:38  <dihedral> i am trying to avoid wrappers
18:01:49  <Brianetta> any reason?
18:02:16  <Brianetta> There's naff-all script engine in OpenTTD as it stands
18:02:19  <dihedral> i always prefere running something without a wrapper if it is doable
18:02:28  <Brianetta> Assume for a moment that it isn't doable
18:02:40  <Brianetta> You have a lot of C code to write and patch into OpenTTD
18:03:21  <dihedral> would it be so hard to check if the file scripts/ was there and run a system call?
18:03:27  <peter1138> might work as a socket type thing
18:03:50  <Brianetta> I doubt that platform specific code would be welcome
18:04:17  <dihedral> well - i was not thinking platform specific... was i?
18:04:24  <Brianetta> A shell script?
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18:04:30  <dihedral> bat?
18:04:43  <Brianetta> That's also specific
18:05:03  <Brianetta> One can be called as a binary.  The other must have its interpreter specified.
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18:05:13  <Wolf01> hello
18:05:20  <dihedral> just a second
18:05:43  <dihedral> sh files can be called as executables - the same should be doable with batch files
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18:05:49  <Brianetta> not so
18:05:59  <dihedral> which one "not so"
18:06:05  <Brianetta> You have to start a cmd shell, and tell it to run the script
18:06:09  <Brianetta> the batch script
18:06:20  <Brianetta> Windows Explorer does it transparently
18:06:29  <Brianetta> but that's hardly surprising.
18:06:35  <dihedral> hehe
18:06:36  <dihedral> true
18:07:23  <Brianetta> I'd still go with the wrapper
18:07:30  <dihedral> well - it could still execute something else :-)
18:07:30  <Brianetta> Then you don't have to worry about process management
18:07:37  <Brianetta> or blocking the game until the process returns
18:07:45  <dihedral> fork
18:07:54  <Brianetta> fork, on Windows?
18:07:58  <Brianetta> Have you looked at it?
18:08:07  <dihedral> hehe
18:08:12  <dihedral> dont know much about win
18:08:16  <Brianetta> fork doubles up the running process
18:08:21  <dihedral> yeah
18:08:32  <dihedral> backgrounding?
18:08:42  <Brianetta> That's process management
18:08:45  <dihedral> again thinking more linux here
18:08:49  <dihedral> &
18:08:56  <dihedral> ie. /foo/bar&
18:09:04  <Brianetta> A wrapper can do it in a separate process
18:09:11  <Brianetta> Take my server
18:09:26  <dihedral> wrappers are nasty :-( (personal oppinion)
18:09:27  <Brianetta> the bit that processes the screenshot on is external
18:09:53  <Brianetta> Database calls, IRC handling
18:10:01  <Brianetta> The game doesn't have to wait for this stuff
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18:10:13  <dihedral> threads?
18:10:23  <Brianetta> and if it's on a multiple core machine, openttd (being intensive) is likely to have its own core.
18:10:24  <dihedral> i know that this would be some major work - just asking the q
18:10:38  <Brianetta> If you want threads, you'd have to reqrite the game some
18:10:42  <Brianetta> rewrite
18:10:48  <dihedral> yeah - know that
18:10:51  <Brianetta> It doesn't indulge in threads at all
18:10:59  <Brianetta> It blocks to autosave, etc
18:11:34  <dihedral> now - would it be worth a branch to make a threaded version?
18:11:35  <sai> hey guys, just playing openttd, and the computer keeps rearranging the terrain... is that normal? in a vast area... like 4 big places where it seems to be stuck in a loop
18:11:47  <Brianetta> sai: That's the AI.  It's awful.
18:11:49  <dihedral> hehehehe
18:12:03  <sai> what happened? it wasnt in openttd 4.8
18:12:12  <Brianetta> dihedral: You could try.  The dev team have always maintained that it's more work than they're prepared to commit to.
18:12:22  <Brianetta> 0.4.8?
18:12:27  <dihedral> that is a shame
18:12:31  <sai> or whatever, the version before
18:12:33  <Brianetta> Well, it's just getting steadily worse
18:12:52  <Brianetta> Good news is, somebody's working on a new AI
18:12:58  <sai> no but seriously, this game isnt playable anymore with that AI
18:12:59  <Brianetta> bad new is, it's not ready yet
18:13:02  <peter1138> it's a stupid bug which no-one's bothered to look into
18:13:15  <dihedral> just play multiplayer
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18:13:21  <dihedral> they wont do that :-)
18:13:28  <Brianetta> dihedral: They will...
18:13:38  <sai> well, I am too bad for multiplayer
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18:13:41  <peter1138> it's probably also the reason that it's slow on large maps
18:13:44  <Brianetta> sai: Of course you aren't
18:13:46  <dihedral> well - the nasty ones yeah
18:13:52  <peter1138> bah
18:13:59  <peter1138> where does one buy IEC power cables?
18:14:01  <Brianetta> sai: Most multiplayer servers are very friendly to newbies
18:14:15  <Brianetta> peter1138: I have access to three drawers full of them
18:14:20  <dihedral> check out some Fair Play games
18:14:23  <sai> k, i ll give it a try.
18:14:28  <peter1138> yeah, usually there are loads of 'e
18:14:30  <peter1138> +m
18:14:33  <sai> but it sounds clear, that this AI is broken, yeah?
18:14:34  <peter1138> but i appear to have run out
18:14:40  <Brianetta> sai: Pretty much, yes.
18:14:50  <dihedral> peter1138: run out of what
18:14:57  <Brianetta> IEC power cables, sai
18:15:04  <Rubidium> sai: the AI might do a little better on small maps (256x256) and the old map generator
18:15:06  <sai> what do you mean?
18:15:13  <sai> brianetta
18:15:32  <sai> ah, that'll be it, the map generator
18:16:01  <dihedral> you know you can spectate games for a bit before you join...
18:16:18  <dihedral> some people also let you join their company and help you out a little here and there
18:16:44  <peter1138> ah ha, £1.55 each
18:17:12  <dihedral> Brianetta: the reason i really am not a friend of wrappers is because they add another layer of possible errors :-)
18:17:49  <Brianetta> dihedral: I find that they add redundancy.  autopilot can produce error after error, without affecting the game.
18:18:23  <Brianetta> Oooh, it's paused raining
18:18:25  <dihedral> but i have to restart the game to solve the issue
18:18:25  <Rubidium> and when the game crashes, autopilot might be able to restart it (or can't it?)
18:18:28  <Brianetta> I'm going to go home
18:18:40  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Not at the moment
18:18:55  <Brianetta> but you can examine its return code and add another wrapper...
18:19:09  <dihedral> great!!!
18:19:16  <dihedral> another wrapper....
18:19:36  <dihedral> why not add the functionality directly to the game?
18:19:44  <Brianetta> Copyright reasons.
18:19:52  <dihedral> your copyright?
18:19:55  <dihedral> :-)
18:20:02  <Brianetta> I chose to write a wrapper after failing to beconvinced that the GPL was legally applied to OpenTTD.
18:20:22  <Brianetta> Rather than debate the matter, I just wrote a separate work.
18:20:24  <dihedral> why is that so
18:20:37  <Brianetta> It started off as TTD, reverse engineered/decompiled.
18:20:51  <dihedral> it is over 10 years old
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18:20:56  <Brianetta> The owner of TTD has never been determined with complete configdence.
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18:21:17  <Brianetta> Since copyright lasts for life of author +75 years, 10 years is nothing.
18:21:29  <Brianetta> Somebody owns it.
18:21:46  <Brianetta> That somebody is probably fine with OpenTTD as long as it doesn't threaten profit.
18:21:57  <dihedral> so
18:22:02  <dihedral> why not ask?
18:22:05  <Brianetta> But, you see, the GPL allows you to (for example) box the game up and sell it in shops.
18:22:12  <Brianetta> People have asked.
18:22:16  <dihedral> and?
18:22:17  <Brianetta> The main suspect is Atari.
18:22:27  <dihedral> what do they say?
18:22:27  <Brianetta> They can't even be bothered to check until they have good reason.
18:22:52  <dihedral> a good reason would be to bluff wanting to buy the copyright :-)
18:23:05  <Brianetta> Somebody made them an outright offer.
18:23:09  <Brianetta> Can't remember who.
18:23:13  <dihedral> result
18:23:27  <dihedral> they were not interested?
18:23:30  <Brianetta> The above.  They didn't know if it was theirs, and didn't deem it worth the effort of checking.
18:23:51  <Brianetta> They probably acquired the rights with Microprose's other assets
18:23:58  <Brianetta> but they might not
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18:24:30  <dihedral> anybody against me trying to find out?
18:24:49  <Brianetta> Of course not.
18:25:06  <dihedral> how long has openttd been out?
18:25:16  <Brianetta> Not sure
18:25:20  <dihedral> and which country did it start in?
18:25:32  <Brianetta> Somewhere in Europe.
18:25:37  <dihedral> have a few loyer friends who still owe me a favour :-)
18:25:59  <Brianetta> Ludde was the nick of the guy who released the decompiled code as GPL
18:26:04  <peter1138> is that different to a lawyer?
18:26:08  <Brianetta> That act itself was very likely illegal
18:26:30  <dihedral> nope just spelling it the way i would pronounce it in german :-D
18:26:49  <dihedral> the question would be when it was released
18:26:59  <Brianetta> Why?
18:27:22  <dihedral> once you start doing something for some time without somebody complaining can have a hudge effect
18:27:31  <Brianetta> It's moot - the game wasn't released with the permission of th eowner
18:27:37  <dihedral> my mother once had a patent on something
18:27:53  <Brianetta> Patent law is separate
18:27:53  <dihedral> a company started producing - illegally
18:27:57  <dihedral> i know
18:28:21  <dihedral> to continue the story
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18:28:45  <dihedral> the company produced for quite some years without my mother noticing (which is silly enough i know)
18:29:11  <Brianetta> Sounds like many years of royalty payments
18:29:13  <dihedral> after a legal battle the result was the company being allowed to continue and make proffit
18:29:43  <dihedral> due to them having proof of making that product for a certain amount of years
18:29:58  <Brianetta> That definitely didn't happen in the US or UK then
18:30:03  <dihedral> nope
18:30:13  <Brianetta> where they'd have to prove they were making it since before you filed for a patent
18:30:32  <dihedral> same case here
18:30:43  <Brianetta> If you ahd a paten for 29 years, and they started making it 28 years ago, you'd win 28 years of royalties, back-dated
18:30:59  <Brianetta> It'd just be worse for the infringer
18:31:00  <dihedral> kinda
18:31:07  <Brianetta> better for the patent holder
18:31:21  <Brianetta> Of course, a year later the patent would have expired.
18:31:39  <dihedral> you get patents and pattern protections
18:31:43  <dihedral> etc
18:32:01  <Brianetta> The defence mounted against your mother's patent would have been laughed at here
18:32:26  <Brianetta> Stating tht they'd been doing it for a long time would have resulted in "Well, you owe us more then!"
18:32:32  <dihedral> well - what can you do - i personally would have never taken it that far :-)
18:33:02  <Brianetta> Anyway, I'm definitely of fhome now, it's getting quite dark
18:33:04  <dihedral> where are you from Brianetta if i may ask?
18:33:06  <Brianetta> back in a bit
18:33:08  <Brianetta> UK
18:33:19  <dihedral> ture - remember asking once
18:33:22  <dihedral> before
18:33:26  <peter1138> he's going home
18:33:27  <dihedral> cu
18:33:30  <peter1138> what a brilliant idea
18:33:36  <dihedral> i am home
18:33:43  <dihedral> and it's weekend :-)
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18:39:17  <mikk36> how can i team-chat ?
18:42:13  <Mucht> strg+enter ?
18:42:21  <Mucht> else, try shift+enter
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18:55:09  <mikk36> strg ?
18:55:25  <mikk36> aah, Ctrl-Enter
18:55:29  <mikk36> did the job
18:57:44  <dihedral> thinking admin side: what do you guys think of being able to see if a company is or is not protected
18:57:57  <dihedral> and having the ability to reset a password of a single company if so required
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19:24:39  <Aitor> hi!
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19:26:15  <Aitor> hi again... :-)
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19:27:14  <Aitor> anyone knows where the new icons in the train depot are stored... i see red questionmarks and was uable to locate the file in the wiki
19:27:17  <Aitor> ?
19:28:12  <dihedral> have often the report that pm's done seem to work
19:28:26  <dihedral> has anybody else experienced this?
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19:34:18  <Rubidium> Aitor: how did you install OTTD?
19:35:25  <Rubidium> dihedral: what are you talking about? That sentence does not make any sense to me.
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19:37:14  <Aitor> Rubidium: it's the OSX version, just dragged the .app into the application folder (as always)
19:37:31  <Aitor> rubi: actually i dragged the full openttd folder in the dmg (disk file) +own
19:37:55  <Aitor> s/+own/downloaded/ :)
19:39:34  <Smoovious> I suppose the daylength patch would affect the TextMessageDailyLoop() function?
19:40:07  <Aitor> Rubidium: how can I know wich file in the data folder is missing? I presume the images are new to OpenTTD so no problem there, ain't it?
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19:40:46  <Rubidium> it's probably not missing them, it has an old version of the files in the data folder
19:40:57  <Aitor> "old version of the data files"?
19:41:13  <Rubidium> from a previous 'installation'
19:41:15  <Aitor> aren't they only coming from TTDX?
19:41:29  <Aitor> there is no installation (as is)
19:41:43  <Rubidium> so files are, others aren't, but the should be in the application bundle (the .app)
19:42:03  <Rubidium> *some
19:42:13  <Aitor> that's what i thougt
19:42:20  <Sacro|Laptop> Smoovious: dunno *shrugs*
19:42:38  <Aitor> ok i'll reconstruct the "installation" and check again
19:42:44  <Aitor> Rubidium: thanks
19:44:07  <Rubidium> you're welcome
19:44:12  <hylje> no problem
19:45:41  <Aitor> ruby: where can I see the names for the six original files of TTDX. Are they:, trg1r.grf,  trgcr.grf, trghr.grf, trgir.grf and trgtr.grf?
19:46:02  <Aitor> i meant, rubidium.. :-)
19:46:15  <Sacro|Laptop> Aitor: tab is your friend
19:46:25  <Aitor> yep
19:46:26  <Aitor> :D
19:52:00  <Aitor> Rubidium: ok, its fixed.. thanks all... :-)
19:55:47  <dihedral> private messages have to reached their destination...
19:55:59  <dihedral> Rubidium: they never seem to have arrived...
19:56:02  <Aitor> bye!
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19:56:06  <dihedral> client to client ones
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21:40:57  <adman_500> helo
21:41:06  <adman_500> hello*
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21:44:34  <BobingAbout> 0.5.0 is out? when did that happen?
21:45:10  <BobingAbout> don't talk to me then
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21:45:21  <valhallasw> LOL
21:46:30  <hylje> :o
21:46:51  <peter1138> Seems great advice to m
21:46:53  <peter1138> +e
21:47:57  <dihedral> is it normal that when in playing coop one player openes a window watching a train and it openes for me too?
21:48:44  <hylje> no
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21:51:26  <dihedral> strange
21:51:58  <dihedral> i'm playing with someone right now and train viewing windows popup open all the time - trains he has just built
21:54:51  <Smoovious> that actually sounds kinda cool... and maybe somehow can keep that behavior and expand it to other windows... would be excellent for teaching someone how to play to be able to see what windows they have up
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21:56:57  <peter1138> there's probably a bug that checks for the player instead of the client
21:57:05  <Smoovious> ya
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22:00:46  <dihedral> true
22:01:01  <dihedral> but should be possible to disable
22:01:17  * Smoovious nods.
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22:11:43  <Wolf01> night
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22:32:48  * valhallasw gets suicidal because of the weird C++ behaviour he is seeing
22:34:05  <KUDr> c++ must get suicidal from what you are doing :)
22:36:10  <dihedral> perhaps c++ gets suicidal from seeing you :-D
22:37:36  <valhallasw> well
22:37:49  <valhallasw> I've got a template<class T> LinkedList class
22:38:08  <valhallasw> and I'm getting linker errors like
22:38:09  <valhallasw> ./List/List.o(.text+0x144):C:/user/valhallasw/workspace/chomp/Debug/../List/List.cpp:61: undefined reference to `LinkedList<int>::~LinkedList()'
22:38:33  <glx> missing destructor?
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22:38:52  <valhallasw> template<class T>
22:38:53  <valhallasw> LinkedList<T>::~LinkedList() { this->remove();
22:38:53  <valhallasw> }
22:38:56  <valhallasw> not really
22:39:33  <KUDr> valhallasw: do you have implementation in the same header file where the class is defined
22:39:35  <KUDr> ?
22:39:43  <valhallasw> what do you mean?
22:40:18  <KUDr> if you have your implementation in the same header where the class is declared
22:40:20  <valhallasw> LinkedList.h has template <class T> class LinkedList {(...) ~LinkedList(); (...) };
22:40:39  <KUDr> declaration
22:40:40  <valhallasw> the implementation is in de cpp file
22:40:44  <KUDr> tha is the problem
22:40:55  <KUDr> it is template
22:41:02  <KUDr> must be in the same file
22:41:15  <valhallasw> erm
22:42:13  <KUDr> actually g++ is more tollerant. You can have it in different files
22:42:38  <valhallasw> hmmm
22:42:41  <KUDr> but you can't have method body in one cpp and use it from another
22:43:07  <KUDr> template is like macro from that point of view
22:43:14  <valhallasw> so... LinkedList<T>::remove() should be in the same file as where I use it?
22:43:26  <valhallasw> like in another class where I want to do list.remove()?
22:43:59  <KUDr> simply template library should be all in header files
22:44:20  <KUDr> MSVC requires it to be in the same file as declaration
22:44:32  <valhallasw> so I should include "LinkedList.cpp">
22:44:50  <KUDr> while in g++ you can have declaration in one header and definition (methods) in another one
22:45:16  <KUDr> heh yes, it can help (include LinkedList.cpp)
22:45:27  <KUDr> but still it is not fully correct
22:45:38  <KUDr> look into stl library how it is made
22:46:10  <KUDr> one file containing whole the class (including method bodies)
22:47:08  <sai> hey guys, the coal mine says, I only carry ~80%, even if there is always at least 1 train at the station taking everything the coal mine produces...
22:47:08  <valhallasw> okay
22:47:42  <sai> I mean, how to reach the 100% ?
22:47:43  <valhallasw> sai: using newer vehicles, faster trains etc helps with the rating
22:47:51  <valhallasw> but the rating system is just plain... weird
22:47:57  <KUDr> sai: yes, it is so. You will never haul 100%
22:48:03  <sai> aha
22:48:03  <valhallasw> KUDr: so.. right, everything in the .h
22:48:06  <valhallasw> *sigh*
22:48:06  <sai> thanks
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22:55:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9079 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add WWT_LAST widget when dynamically building cargo payment graph
22:56:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9080 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: dynamically build cargo filter buttons in the station list window.
22:57:57  <peter1138> hmm
22:58:08  <peter1138> maybe UINT32_MAX doesn't exist everywhere...
22:58:15  <peter1138> nevermind :p
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23:26:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9081 /trunk/src/ (station_gui.cpp stdafx.h): -Fix(r9080): UINT32_MAX is undefined on MSVC. Use std::numeric_limits<uint32>::max() instead.
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23:47:14  <DJ-ProsiT> can anyone tell me what Raiway waypoints are good for?
23:47:54  <glx> to help the pathfinder
23:48:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> for example you can have all slow trains take another route than the fast trains
23:49:04  <Smoovious> say you got one station, that is an irregular size/shape... you use the waypoints to make sure the trains take a certain route, so the 12-tile-length train doesn't end up trying to go to the 8-tile-length platform, but the 12-tile-length platform
23:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, YAPF does something like that automatically
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23:50:36  <Smoovious> it was just an example, Eddi|zuHause2
23:50:43  <Bjarni> I tend to place them after a fork so I control what trains using which fork even though both forks leads to the same station. This way one is deliveries and the other one is pickup. This prevents the case where the station is full of trains waiting for steel, but it will not produce any steel because the station is blocked so no iron is arrives
23:50:59  <Bjarni> -is
23:51:01  <Smoovious> but ok, so the 8-tile-length passenger train doesn't try to unload at the 12-tile-length coal loading platform
23:51:07  * Bjarni wonders why he wrote is
23:51:53  <Bjarni> I didn't include it in the sentence when I decided how to say this and I didn't notice it before I pressed enter
23:51:58  <Smoovious> you were probably thinking delivered and changed your mind at the spacebar
23:52:19  <Bjarni> maybe it was a "!dropped" package and a computer somewhere decided to add it :P
23:52:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd place "ore" at that point
23:52:47  <Smoovious> just trying to show you its in control :D
23:53:08  <Bjarni> whatever
23:53:24  <Bjarni> I guess I should head for bed now before I start to mess up stuff
23:53:29  <Bjarni> like my next commit
23:53:30  <Smoovious> wave
23:56:53  <DJ-ProsiT> hmm so basically place it in long stretches to help the train ;P
23:57:10  <DJ-ProsiT> and also infront of diff size stations to help it go to the right one
23:58:41  <Smoovious> um, yeah... anywhere where you want trains to take a specific route...

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