Log for #openttd on 11th March 2007:
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00:03:58  * ThePizzaKing doesn't use timidity, he just sings the tunes himself while playing
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00:46:26  <Sacro> !seen lolman
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01:22:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9106 /trunk/docs/landscape.html: -Documentation: forgotten usage of m2 (storing TownID) in statue unmovable tile type
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01:45:32  <Smoovious> hmm... wierd... I'm trying to compile... and I'm getting some errors in newgrf.cpp... and I never even opened that file...
01:45:50  <glx> maybe a .h
01:46:21  <Smoovious> will paste the error soon as it is done doing its thing
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01:53:39  <Smoovious> ok, well, it sure isn't from a change I made... line 1409... error C2220, warning C4018: '>' :signed/unsigned mismatch ... and line 1617... warning C4018: '<' :signed/unsigned mismatch again
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01:58:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9107 /branches/newhouses/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_externals.html):
01:58:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [newhouses]-Documentation: Added bits and bytes assignation of new houses vs standard houses
01:58:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Houses definition is now in another file, since it does not bring anything essential to the understanding of the landscape array.
01:58:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: More will be out there, in time
02:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> and what does it say if you try a clean source?
02:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> (something like 'svn diff > temp.diff && svn revert . -R && make')
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02:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> (or the tortoise equivalent of that)
02:03:04  <Belugas_Gone> no, i have the same on a clean repo.
02:03:10  * Smoovious rolls his eyes.
02:03:14  <Belugas_Gone> it is a MSVC stupid warning
02:03:20  <Smoovious> dude... there isn't even anything there REMOTELY close to what I'm working on
02:03:46  <Belugas_Gone> cool down Smoovious.  it's "normal"
02:03:55  <Smoovious> anyways... just thought I'd give a heads-up while I work on my own errors
02:04:02  <Belugas_Gone> has anything to do with you
02:04:27  <Smoovious> if I thought it was mine, I wouldn't have even said anything
02:04:35  * Smoovious shrugs.
02:04:41  * Smoovious goes back to work.
02:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> "dude"... i was just trying to help you eleminate some error sources
02:06:42  <Smoovious> I already did that before I even brought it up
02:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but i have no way of knowing that, do i?
02:07:55  <Smoovious> look... you got your 'tude... I got my 'tude... and they're just going to keep clashing with each other, so lets just let it drop before we go into full flame mode, alright?
02:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... someone, i won't say who (* it's not me *) is a little on edge here...
02:11:22  <Belugas_Gone> shhhhh...
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02:53:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9108 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix(9093) : MSVC was a bit unhappy with some of the type changes. So basically, widening the types makes the difference
03:00:04  <Belugas_Gone> night
03:01:01  <Smoovious> wave
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03:06:11  <mikk36> m... yummi...
03:06:14  <mikk36> ice-cream :)
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09:23:21  <mikk36|lap> lol
09:23:22  <mikk36|lap>
09:23:32  <mikk36|lap> only windows can be so smart :D
09:24:08  <hylje> :o
09:24:11  <hylje> omg, vista
09:29:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9109 /branches/custombridgeheads/src/ (bridge_cmd.cpp rail_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): [cbh] -Fix: Stabilize the reversing of trains on bridges/bridgeheads a little (it still crashes at times however). Also re-allow the construction of signals on bridgeheads
09:29:30  <mikk36|lap> erm
09:29:40  <mikk36|lap> signals on the first tile of bridge ?
09:29:47  <mikk36|lap> first and last*
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09:31:02  <hylje> yes
09:31:57  <mikk36|lap> nice
09:31:59  <mikk36|lap> :)
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10:21:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9110 /branches/gamebalance/src/fixedt.h: [gamebalance] -Add: Added a double-cast operator for FixedT data type for C-compatible output with fprintf.
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10:55:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9111 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
10:55:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: [OSX] mighty mice and touchpads can now scroll the map (in all directions)
10:55:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  It has to be enabled first (in patches->interface) first and this will disable scrollwheel zooming
10:55:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Note: patch setting "Map scrollwheel speed" might need to be changed since the "correct" setting
10:55:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  appears to depend on what kind of mouse is in use (mighty mouse or touchpad)
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11:57:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9112 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Feature r9111: scrollwheel scrolling can now also scroll the smallmap
12:00:10  <ln-> Bjarni: btw, OS X is not the only operating system to support horizontal scrolling.
12:03:43  <peter1138> but bjarni only has OS X
12:04:02  <peter1138> SDL doesn't appear to have a simple way of getting the events
12:04:05  <peter1138> and who cares about windows
12:05:49  <Bjarni> <ln->	Bjarni: btw, OS X is not the only operating system to support horizontal scrolling. <-- I know. Feel free to code driver support for any other platform
12:06:09  <Bjarni> the game logics should handle it correctly, but if the driver doesn't listen for the input...
12:06:20  <Bjarni> I only modified the cocoa driver to listen for it
12:09:06  <ln-> would it be acceptable that scrolling the map required pressing some modifier key? that way the feature could be enabled by default.
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12:09:18  <ln-> and normal zoom in/out scroll would still work.
12:10:19  <Bjarni> and you start talking about that idea NOW???
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12:10:46  <ln-> i talked about it yesterday.
12:10:54  <Bjarni> just use the hotkeys for zooming
12:11:05  <Bjarni> (control +f5/f6.. I think)
12:11:30  <ln-> when is someone going to fix the F2-... keys anyway?
12:11:41  <ln-> they don't match the toolbar anymore.
12:12:19  <Bjarni> good question
12:13:53  <ln-> i bet chris sawyer didn't arrange the buttons in groups of four just by coincidence.
12:17:10  <Bjarni> CS didn't add autoreplace. That's not the same as we can never have it ;)
12:18:36  <ln-> err..
12:18:45  <ln-> is there autoreplace on the toolbar?
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12:20:36  <ln-> tell me, was it a deliberate decision to fuck up the correlation between F1..F12 and the toolbar back then?
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12:21:39  <Bjarni> I don't know
12:21:42  <Bjarni> I didn't do it
12:22:06  <Bjarni> gtg
12:22:07  <Bjarni> bbl
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12:52:22  <Wolf01> hello
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13:06:23  <jordi> blathijs: we have green light
13:06:33  <jordi> blathijs: I'll commit -2 and upload tonight
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13:57:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9113 /branches/gamebalance/src/fixedt.h: [gamebalance] -Add: Implemented a function that computes positive, integral powers of a FixedT
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14:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> " * This files defines a new data type" <- something is wrong there ;)
14:02:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r9114 /branches/gamebalance/ (10 files in 3 dirs): [gamebalance] -Add: Added the new economy, with the ability to adjust growth in the difficulty window. The economy doesn't do anything yet, it just exists.
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14:04:07  <Noldo> a new economy?
14:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> [Mo Jan 15 2007] [18:12:29] <Celestar> <= please anyone tell me what you think :)
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14:13:54  <Mucht> ah finally, the paper...
14:14:36  <Rubidium> finally?
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14:15:52  <Rubidium> that paper is already 2 months on the forum
14:16:54  <Mucht> I had a neweconomy file in my emule for some 5 months :-P
14:17:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9115 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#622]: make clear in the tooltips when the canal build tool (in the scenario editor) makes flooding water (ocean).
14:18:05  <Mucht> uh, a lot of settings to be made by users
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14:18:45  <peter1138> people complain that there are either too many or not enough...
14:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> it would be pretty stupid for people to complain about having exactly the right amount ;)
14:21:53  <XeryusTC> lol
14:22:04  * XeryusTC hands peter1138 an "advanced options" button
14:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Conventional Rail | 160km/h" <- somehow this would make trains like the ICE TD totally useless...
14:24:21  <Mucht> Celestar writes about track maintenance costs... is this possible to code with the current layout?
14:24:22  <peter1138> we should stick to letting the vehicle define its own max speed...
14:24:33  <peter1138> it's always worked before, heh
14:24:48  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: as if you would run a train at more than 160 km/h on 'old' tracks
14:24:59  <Mucht> ah, having different track speeds is a great thing
14:25:13  <Rubidium> you'd like to have some extra-strength/extra-straigth rail for trains going that fast
14:25:45  <Mucht> as in simutrans - great stuff
14:25:46  <peter1138> perhaps the simutrans thing...
14:25:48  <peter1138> heh
14:26:03  <XeryusTC> hmm
14:26:05  <Mucht> you really have to calculate a bit smarter then
14:28:00  <peter1138> hmm
14:28:12  <peter1138> Refittable to: Mail, Livestock, Goods, Food, (undefined string), (undefined string)
14:28:16  <peter1138> That's not quite right :-)
14:29:17  <XeryusTC> lol
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14:29:40  <XeryusTC> looks like when you use the japan set with toyland, you get trains named "n/a"
14:30:19  <peter1138> hmm, why is it not working. i'm sure it used to :-/
14:30:47  <peter1138> oh... i know :/
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14:37:11  <Tefad> toyland.. bleh
14:39:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9116 /trunk/src/lang/ (36 files in 2 dirs): [Translations] -Change: force remove of changed translations (r9115) to ensure they are really changed
14:56:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9117 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: the (current) difficulty level button was not selected when opening the difficulty window.
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15:07:37  <neli> if cities grow around forests, doies their production decrease ?
15:07:43  <neli> or is this bad luck
15:08:01  <neli> they only do 35 tonnes now :(
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15:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, that has nothing to do with each other
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9118 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-03-11 16:16:39
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by fukumori (2)
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 1 fixed by thetitan (1)
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 5 fixed by arnaullv (5)
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changed by Hadez (1)
15:17:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: esperanto - 1 fixed by LaPingvino (1)
15:22:06  <MiHaMiX> Total I18N status: 96% - 4167 bad strings out of 108680 strings (2860 strings / language)
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15:58:04  <dihedral> how come my dedicated server is running at over 70% cpu usage?
15:59:09  <dihedral> i just set the res down to 1,1 and all the detail options off
15:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> slow CPU, large game, YAPF for ships?
15:59:15  <dihedral> and loaded a save game again
15:59:31  <dihedral> 2000+ AMD
15:59:46  <dihedral> shoudl be enough for openttd dedicated dont you thing :-)
15:59:58  <Digitalfox> OS?? RAM??
15:59:59  <dihedral> map size 1024 by 1024
16:00:06  <dihedral> debian etch
16:00:09  <dihedral> ram 1GB
16:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> vehicles?
16:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> pathfinder?
16:00:47  <dihedral> i'll check - just a jiffy
16:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> other settings?
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16:01:16  <dihedral> less than 250 trains in total
16:01:36  <dihedral> less than 40 road
16:01:54  <dihedral> about 120 planes
16:02:09  <dihedral> 62  ships
16:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> there
16:02:20  <dihedral> in 2014
16:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is your reason, ships
16:02:30  <dihedral> i'll check the yapf setting
16:03:40  <dihedral> ok
16:03:42  <dihedral> that's on
16:03:54  <dihedral> any issues if i turn that off during a game?
16:03:59  <XeryusTC> the ships + map size with that amount of trains are the problem
16:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, ships without yapf need lots of buoys
16:04:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> to cover long distances
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16:04:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you should at least warn the player
16:05:01  <dihedral> is every 10 tiles considered a lot?
16:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> that should be fine ;)
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16:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's probably something like 32 tiles
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16:05:42  <dihedral> think there is a player who has them placed every 10 to 20 tiles
16:05:47  <dihedral> sweet
16:05:55  <dihedral> i'll check in the game - brb
16:07:50  <dihedral> any other way i could possibly change the resouce hunger of yapf on ships?
16:08:32  <Rubidium> except placing buoys regularly there is no way to reduce it
16:09:03  <Rubidium> it's also the reason why YAPF for ships is turned off by default
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16:11:45  <dihedral> OK
16:11:52  <dihedral> thank you
16:13:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem is very fundamental... YAPF is optimized for long paths with few switches, like it is normal for rail networks, but on water, basically every tile is a switch
16:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you end up with very many possible paths
16:14:06  <dihedral> how about calculating the path when the goto order is set and placing hidden buoys :-)
16:14:34  <dihedral> or a list of tile number for a certain route?
16:14:43  <dihedral> and keeping that internally
16:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> that means storing the path of all ships on the map, that is probably fine for one ship, but i doubt it is possible for 200
16:15:04  <dihedral> sweet - that took me down to 30 %
16:15:39  <dihedral> 200 ships would not mean 200 separate routes would it :-)
16:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is probably better to calculate paths between buoys, and then only use buoys as switches
16:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> could require buoys being in "sight line"
16:17:11  <Sacro> ship routing has been suggested before
16:17:23  <Sacro> dock -> bouy -> bouy -> bouy -> dock
16:17:25  <dihedral> :-
16:17:28  <dihedral> 0
16:17:42  <dihedral> )
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16:24:58  <Smoovious> maybe just re-calculating the route only occasionally
16:25:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> another possible approach would be: instead of caching "straight" segments, you cache rectangular segments, where ships can travel in straight lines
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16:25:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> then you only have to invoke the pathfinder if you hit the edge of the segment, or if the terrain is changed
16:27:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem here is finding an optimal segmentation of the water, possibly one that you can calculate "on the fly"
16:27:47  <dihedral> that sounds good
16:28:38  <_Ben_> Hi, Just thourght I would ask, is this bug known about in the latest nighty? When building a station, if a plane flies over head it says "Can't build railroad station here, Aircraft in the way"?
16:29:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds funny, i have never heard of this ;)
16:29:25  <scia> was the aircraft flying low?
16:30:01  <_Ben_> um, Actually I recreated the problem when it was near an airport cause it was easier to catch them, but the first time I think one was at full height
16:31:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9119 /branches/cpp_gui/ (294 files in 17 dirs): [cpp_gui] -Sync with trunk (r9003:9100)
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16:37:12  <_Ben_> ok yep, I can get them at full height
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17:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 2124160/1024
17:33:35  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: 2074.3750000000;
17:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> !calc 2124160/512
17:33:45  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: 4148.7500000000;
17:35:53  <ln-> !calc 41334/0
17:35:55  <_42_> ln-: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=9): Divide by zero;
17:42:54  <mggrant> hehe
17:43:17  <ln-> !calc 2^10
17:43:20  <_42_> ln-: 1024;
17:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... the height of bridge pillars are totally wrong...
17:43:31  <ln-> !calc 2^(10^20)
17:43:33  <_42_> ln-: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=13): exponent too large in raise;
17:44:01  <peter1138> they're 8 pixels
17:44:10  <peter1138> unless you mean on slopes
17:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, on sloped
17:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> -s+d
17:46:19  <peter1138> then yes, it's dodgy
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17:48:31  <AmpCoder> Hello
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17:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> urgs... that function DrawBridgePillars is full of magic...
17:54:43  <peter1138> i've tried many times to fix it
17:54:56  <peter1138> you end up with some stuff working and other stuff looking worse
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18:02:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9120 /website/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [website] -Remove: the serverlist updater; it has been replaced by the updater from branches/masterserver_updater.
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18:04:39  <dihedral> are the passwords to companies stored in the map or only cached?
18:04:57  <Sacro|Laptop> cached
18:05:35  <dihedral> that would explain why loading a saved game did not have any passwords set
18:07:23  <dihedral> so that would mean if i wrote a CmdResetPW to reset the password of a single company there would be no chance of a desync?
18:07:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: everything that is stored gets sent to all clients, so that would open up loopholes for other people to steal your password
18:07:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9121 /website/ (images/screens/README! templates/nightly.tpl): [WebSite] -Fix: small typos
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18:08:31  <dihedral> true
18:08:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9122 /website/includes/" target="_blank"> [WebSite] -Fix: allow" target="_blank"> to be included from where-ever
18:08:59  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2: so seeing as it is cached - there is no chance for a desync if i change it right?
18:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure about that
18:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> the client that created the password might have stored it somewhere
18:09:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9123 /website/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [WebSite] -Add: added access-control. We now have ALL_ACCESS and XMLRPC_ACCESS. The latter gives access to only the XMLRPC servers
18:10:02  <peter1138> it's only used on connection, isn't it?
18:10:03  <dihedral> resets by the admin only have to be available if the company has no clients playing in it at that time :-)
18:10:20  <dihedral> yeah
18:10:26  <Rubidium> the company's password is not part of the game state, so it is save to reset passwords in the server
18:11:41  <dihedral> so if i added a feature that writest this data to a file uppon a save - i could load it again if i need to load that save game
18:11:53  <dihedral> and have all passwords set the way they were
18:12:13  <dihedral> + it would only be available to the server :-)
18:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> that should be possible
18:12:39  <Smoovious>  <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: everything that is stored gets sent to all clients, so that would open up loopholes for other people to steal your password <--- so, this way, now, if you have to restart the server and reload the game, anybody can access anyone's company
18:13:08  <dihedral> currently yes
18:13:21  <Smoovious> I'd rather have the loophole
18:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have an odd sense of security...
18:13:55  <Smoovious> when playing locally, if I go bankrupt, the only way I have to start a new company is to save, reload the server, and start again
18:13:59  <dihedral> could be md5
18:14:16  <Smoovious> security has to last... if security is only good for how long your power last, it isn't security
18:14:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9124 /website/ (community.php includes/ [WebSite] -Add: added pre-code for community pages (unfinished)
18:15:13  <Smoovious> the passwords could be saved locally on the server only... remote clients connecting to the server will get queried by the server anyways... no need for individual clients to have passwords saved
18:15:16  <dihedral> if an md5 string was stored with company info in the map itself - then that would not be a loophole
18:15:41  <dihedral> but then you cannot get a savegame as a client and play as somebody else locally
18:16:11  <dihedral> extending the CmdSave to save the cache in an extra file (same filename diff extention)
18:16:14  <Smoovious> you have tradeoffs, sure... but keeping the password is one hell of a lot more important to me than letting someone else play me
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18:16:59  <dihedral> 5 more lines of code for the dedicated server
18:16:59  <Smoovious> especially if we play as a group a few hours a day... would want to save the game in between sessions without having to keep it loaded and running with the computer on all the time
18:17:34  <dihedral> if it is stored on the server though - admins can reset it without the risk of a desync
18:17:47  <Smoovious> if someone wants to play the save game locally, that's fine, I don't care... what I care about is someone connecting to my current company on the server...
18:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> there have been lots of suggestions for a "proper" login system, not all of them were good
18:18:18  <Smoovious> you only need passwords for server games... and those passwords should be stored only on the server
18:18:21  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:18:34  <dihedral> the diff between a propper login system and saving cached pw's is time
18:19:14  <dihedral> it is no prob to one a save 1 also write to 1.cache where passwords are written in companyid:pw
18:19:24  <dihedral> a simple htpasswd format :-)
18:19:25  <Smoovious> perhaps have a matching .pwd file with the .sav file in the same directory... load up a .sav game, look for a matching .pwd file, and if there is one, assign those passwords to the companies as before
18:19:41  <dihedral> exactly what i was trying to say :-)
18:20:03  <Smoovious> yeah, but you use shorter sentences so it came out faster :P
18:20:15  <dihedral> in addition - only save the pw's md5 - even in the game
18:20:20  <dihedral> and a match agains the md5
18:20:35  <dihedral> just in case
18:21:07  <Smoovious> on top of that, I'd also like to see computer players roll up a random password to keep remote players from logging into them... or, perhaps a simpler method, only allow the console to log into computer players
18:22:03  <dihedral> this would not be a lot of code either
18:22:13  <Smoovious> nope
18:22:20  <dihedral> should be doable in a few hours
18:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> so, where's your patch? ;)
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18:22:46  <Smoovious> testing out my current patch btw... I should have a diff up in an hour or two once I get my players to try to break it
18:22:47  <dihedral> i said a few hours - we just came up with the idea :-)
18:23:43  <dihedral> + i know no c/c++
18:24:10  <dihedral> so that "few hours" for a dev = "few days" for me :-D
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18:26:27  <dihedral> + when i change code, it's currently in /tags/0.5.0
18:26:51  <dihedral> because i want my players to not have to update their version of ottd :-P
18:27:08  <_Ben_> in relation to the bug I asked about above...hers an image of it.  probly not helpful, but here it is anyway.  This seems to be posible to generate anywhere where there is a plane, but in this example its next to an airport and over a forest. .  I'm off now anyway
18:27:18  <dihedral> i am not patching against trunk
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18:39:34  <dihedral> changing pw from the server should not be a prob even if clients are connected to that company
18:40:04  <dihedral> because when you play coop another player can change pw too
18:40:18  <dihedral> and if it is only cached that player should not know about the old pw
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19:20:58  <Digitalfox_> !seen darkvater
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19:20:59  <_42_> Digitalfox_, Darkvater ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 day 18 hours 47 minutes ago (10.03. 00:33) stating "Quit: leaving" after spending 6 seconds there.
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19:26:39  <Smoovious> a quickie
19:26:49  <peter1138> ln-, going back a bit...
19:26:56  <peter1138> 12:13 < ln-> i bet chris sawyer didn't arrange the buttons in groups of four just by coincidence.
19:27:05  <peter1138> but... he didn't :p
19:27:23  <peter1138> it's 3 4 5, heh
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19:31:19  <ln-> oh, hmm
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19:31:42  <ln-> wellll that doesn't invalidate my sentence. :)
19:32:01  <ln-> chris saywer did not arrange the buttons in groups of four, not even just by conincidence.
19:32:51  <peter1138> :)
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19:35:55  <Digitalfox_> Since the change in planes speed, i have a doubt, does aircraft with their new speed in realtime, do they give more or less money in a same route?
19:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> in almost all cases, faster=more money
19:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> first, faster = increase in value
19:38:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> second, faster = more often delivery
19:38:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> third, faster = better rating
19:38:31  <Smoovious> well, gotta do some rebalancing now that the speeds are relative to each other
19:40:14  <Tefad> <- does the other column even apply any more?
19:41:33  <peter1138> other?
19:41:41  <Tefad> yes "other"
19:42:06  <blathijs> jordi: nice :-)
19:42:37  <peter1138> yes
19:42:40  <peter1138> it does
19:42:51  <Tefad> ok.
19:43:04  <peter1138> valuables are still there, heh
19:43:22  <Tefad> .
19:43:25  <Tefad> is that all
19:44:41  <peter1138> yup
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19:51:09  <Smoovious> for now
19:52:17  <peter1138> well there used to be more
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19:58:27  <jordi> blathijs: uploaded!
19:58:50  <jordi> actually I triedf
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19:59:02  <jordi>  to upload when we talked previously
19:59:12  <jordi> but for some reason the md5sums where bad
19:59:16  <jordi> were even
19:59:19  <jordi> and it was rejected
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20:02:36  <blathijs> jordi: so you retried?
20:02:42  <jordi> just did
20:02:48  <jordi> I'll notify ftpmaster now
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20:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... what do you people consider a realistic length of freight trains?
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20:23:42  <Smoovious> 128
20:23:48  <Bjarni> you want a real life count?
20:23:55  <Bjarni> everything from 4 to 150
20:24:00  <hylje> could anyone supply me with some information on finding equivalent functions on vc for the gnu toolchain
20:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> central european real life count would be best
20:24:33  <Smoovious> nah... a freight train of less than 10 just doesn't seem realistic... a local train maybe
20:24:35  <hylje> 150 car count is hueg
20:24:40  <peter1138> isn't there still a maximum of 101?
20:25:01  <hylje> we need more efficient/realistic stations for very huge trains
20:25:02  <peter1138> although you can get around that with dualhead/articulated parts
20:25:02  <Smoovious> we got lots of long runs here... 100+ isn't THAT out of the ordinary
20:25:13  <hylje> a rolling load/unload would speed things up
20:25:24  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	isn't there still a maximum of 101? <-- there is but he wanted a real life number
20:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was just experimenting with 10 tiles, that is one engine+tender and 21 wagons
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20:26:50  <Tefad> rolling would be very slow
20:27:12  <Tefad> which is about right : )
20:27:14  <hylje> yes, but would require a lot shorter stations
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20:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it looks almost a little long
20:28:45  <peter1138> Bjarni, you mean it's not real life?
20:29:20  <Smoovious> a lot shorter stations, but twice as long space for lead-in/-out to avoid fouling switches for other trains
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20:29:55  <Smoovious> there are only a few cargoes that would roll-unload or roll-load...
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20:30:14  <peter1138> bulk stuff
20:30:19  <peter1138> coal, ore, etc
20:30:23  <Smoovious> grain, coal, gravel, etc
20:30:28  <hylje> roll-(un)loading pax :-)
20:30:36  <Smoovious> stuff that gets dumped from the bottom chutes
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20:31:03  * Smoovious grins.
20:31:14  <Smoovious> we could have moving walkways and roll-load/-unload passengers :D
20:33:46  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
20:36:18  <peter1138> like the grand parade of lifeless packaging
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20:52:36  <Tefad> meh, i was thinking more of treating each platform length of train as a separate load
20:52:52  <Tefad> then moving the train to the next platform length segment of train
20:53:02  <Tefad> maybe that makes too much sense
20:53:04  * Tefad shrugs
20:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd probably better to use shunting yards for that
20:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> +be
20:56:42  <Tefad> i was thinking really long tracks fore/aft of station
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20:57:46  <hylje> a fully featured shunting ability would be the win
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21:13:44  <Smoovious> even having the station be able to load/unload according to track length would help too... longer station, more room to load/unload, and can do it faster... say you got your base rate for the station... plus a modifier for each track... plus a modifier for each segment of track
21:14:40  <Smoovious> so like... a station can do X per tick... if the station has 6 tiles for the track, then it can do X+6 cargo per tick
21:14:45  * Smoovious shrugs.
21:15:01  <Smoovious> dunno how to work it... but something should be workable
21:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know what you mean, all wagons load simultaneously anyway
21:16:29  <Rubidium> Smoovious: (un)loading happens per wagon and wagons not at the platform (un)load a lot slower
21:16:57  <Smoovious> k... wasn't sure exactly how that was handled
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21:22:28  * mggrant waves to Mortomes :)
21:22:41  <Mortomes> Hey FA
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21:23:13  * Smoovious watches all the lang-file errors fly across his screen
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21:33:35  <Wolf01> night
21:33:38  *** Wolf01 [] has quit []
21:35:45  <Smoovious> wave
21:39:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9125 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix r9111: default scrollwheel setting is now zooming, not scrolling
21:43:22  <mggrant> yay for that fix :)
21:44:13  * Smoovious re-resolves conflict. :P
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21:53:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9126 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp settings_gui.cpp window.cpp):
21:53:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: "Function of scrollwheel" can now be set to off as well
21:53:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Note: since this can be useful for all platforms, the GUI is no longer OSX specific.
21:53:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Note: scrolling lists is still unaffected by this setting
21:58:06  <Bjarni> <mggrant>	yay for that fix :) <-- now you have a nice GUI to change your settings if you ended up with something you didn't like
21:58:32  <mggrant> wheee, even better :)
21:58:58  <Bjarni> you could also edit openttd.cfg
21:59:20  <Bjarni> scrollwheel_scrolling 0 = zoom, 1 = scroll, 2 = off (with the newest commit)
21:59:24  * Smoovious chuckles and re-re-resolves conflicts. :D
21:59:30  <valhallasw> \o/
22:00:58  <Bjarni> Smoovious: what are you trying to do since I cause conflicts for you? :)
22:01:07  <Bjarni> are you trying to take over my job?
22:01:49  <Smoovious> nope... it is just we chose to put our SDT_VAR lines in the same place of settings.cpp
22:01:53  <Smoovious> :)
22:02:33  <Smoovious> I got my line for keeping the chat text on the screen, directly below the prefer_teamchat item
22:05:45  <Bjarni> ahh
22:05:46  <Bjarni> heh
22:06:01  <Bjarni> well, I don't plan on changing that line again anytime soon
22:06:26  <Bjarni> first I didn't expect to make a bug that I had to fix, but that's what can happen
22:06:44  <Bjarni> and then I didn't plan on getting a feature request to completely disable the scrollwheel
22:07:23  * Smoovious grins.
22:07:31  <Bjarni> so I don't know what will be the next feature request so I need to change it again or when it will show up or even if it will ever be changed
22:07:48  <Smoovious> no biggie... just trying to keep my diff up to date until a couple of my players test it out for me... then I'll post it...
22:08:25  <Smoovious> while I was in there looking over the texteff file, I think I can do a lot more in there than the little I did... make it work better... probably tackle that next
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22:11:57  <Smoovious> Bjarni... what env are you compiling on/for?
22:29:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9127 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Check if a cargo is valid before displaying it in a station's cargo rating list. (And duff up the block a little)
22:30:18  <Bjarni> err
22:30:38  <Bjarni> look at the changelog. I made an OSX specific feature today
22:30:49  <Bjarni> I guess that should answer the question ;)
22:30:52  <Digitalfox_> Bjarni: Is there a way by newgrf to change the autorail button? Some set's change the other icons of railroad building tools, and since in patch there isn't this button, no way of changing it ??
22:31:04  <Smoovious> yeah, but that doesn't specifically mean you only do OSX :P
22:31:22  <Bjarni> what else should I do? :P
22:32:06  <Bjarni> Digitalfox_: err... I *think* that you can make a GRF file that contain a sprite with the same SpriteID as the autorail button and it will be overwritten
22:32:07  <Smoovious> test a diff for me? :) I don't know if it'll work on non-Win32 yet...
22:32:12  <Bjarni> AFAIK nobody made one
22:32:46  * Bjarni forwards Digitalfox_'s question to peter1138
22:32:50  <Bjarni> he should know
22:33:10  <Bjarni> Smoovious: what is it? A virus?
22:33:22  <Bjarni> it could be a virus if it's windows only :p
22:33:36  <Smoovious> odds favor it, but not exclusively
22:33:40  <Digitalfox_> Bjarni: ok
22:33:42  <peter1138> yeah
22:33:47  <peter1138> you just need to know the sprite number ;p
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22:34:27  <peter1138> a little dodgy, as it could change
22:34:43  <peter1138> but otherwise there is no way
22:35:48  <Bjarni> what kind of name is that???
22:35:56  <Bjarni> ---	DCC RECV SmoovPatch[text_stays_visible].r9127.200703111835.diff from Smoovious complete
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22:36:09  <Smoovious> just how I organize things
22:36:38  <Smoovious> the patch is a diff from r9127, with the date I made it
22:36:40  <peter1138> "Are you sure you want to delete these 14,556 items?"
22:36:40  <peter1138> hmm
22:36:50  <Bjarni> YES
22:36:51  <peter1138> you don't trust the file's timestamp? ;p
22:36:55  <Smoovious> just click yes
22:37:00  <peter1138> i did
22:37:05  <Bjarni> ok
22:37:17  <Bjarni> let's see how long it takes before peter1138 dies and times out
22:37:17  <peter1138> it's a set of sql back up logs
22:37:25  <peter1138> stored at 5 minute intervals
22:37:32  <Smoovious> I don't always see the file's timestamp from different applications... and right now, no I don't... the computer didn't switch to daylight savings today, so I'm leaving it in standard time
22:37:37  <peter1138> for a couple of days
22:37:49  * Smoovious rofls.
22:37:54  <Smoovious> 14,556 logfiles?
22:37:59  <Smoovious> damn, and I thought I was bad
22:38:15  <peter1138> did you read what i wrote? ;p
22:38:31  <Smoovious> yes... a set of sql back up logs
22:38:51  <peter1138> so 14,556 of them isn't that many
22:39:03  <Smoovious> it is to me
22:39:08  <Smoovious> :P
22:39:10  <peter1138> maybe i should raise it to 1 minute intervals instead of 5
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22:40:27  * Smoovious expects there to be a handful of coding style issues with that .diff
22:40:29  <peter1138> hmm, so it's about 4 days
22:40:47  <peter1138> 2 files per db, 8 dbs, 12 times a minute, 24 hours in a day...
22:41:04  <Smoovious> 23 if you count early this morning
22:41:05  <peter1138> 3 days is 13824 files
22:42:24  <peter1138> right, that cleared up 4GB space
22:42:28  <peter1138> which is good as it's a bit low :/
22:42:36  <peter1138> nini
22:43:05  <Digitalfox_> Did any dev figure why the about screen moves faster when moving mouse?
22:43:35  <peter1138> yeah
22:43:40  <peter1138> cos it moves up when it redraws
22:43:45  <peter1138> or something like that
22:43:46  <Smoovious> probably more events happening
22:43:58  <peter1138> and nobody cares enough to change it
22:44:03  <peter1138> oh, yes, nini
22:44:05  <Smoovious> the mouse causes more user-input events than the keyboard
22:44:21  <Digitalfox_> peter1138: Yes, it's not a big deal, but it's just stange :)
22:44:30  <Smoovious> I notice it in other programs too
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23:03:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9128 /branches/0.5/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [0.5] -Fix: trains slow down under bridges when they were going down on the tile before the bridge tile.
23:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: you sure it's summer time? i'd expect such a thing next month...
23:04:13  <Smoovious> oh... the US is on this whole 'saving energy' kick, and daylight savings time is starting earlier now
23:04:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, start of spring is 21. March, and i think in europe, summer time starts the next sunday after that date
23:04:48  <Smoovious> M$ got the new date in the updates for XP at least, but seems they ignored 2k... and forget about getting the 95 computer on the right zone
23:05:06  <Smoovious> hey, you get no disagreement from me... personally, I think it is stupid
23:05:59  <Smoovious> why even bother with daylight time at all... just shift all the zones over an hour and be on daylight time permanent as standard time if it means so much to them...
23:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not the sense of summer time... the sense of summer time is to adjust for the movement of sunrise during the seasons
23:07:16  <Smoovious> one county in indiana just made the whole switch from central time to eastern time even... permanently
23:08:18  <Smoovious> bah... I don't care much about that... if it is 6p, it is 6p... who cares if it is getting dark yet or not...
23:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> *mental note* a track network designed for 6 tile trains is quite likely to lock up on 10 tile trains
23:09:01  <Smoovious> anyways, they changed the daylight time start/end dates here, and it just seems silly to me
23:09:48  <Smoovious> keeping my computers on standard time until the old daylight-switch days, just so the time/date conversions for other time zones still work properly
23:14:46  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	oh... the US is on this whole 'saving energy' kick, and daylight savings time is starting earlier now <-- yeah, I noticed. I'm not sure if it will work though
23:15:04  <Bjarni> but it's really expensive to change
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23:16:25  <Smoovious> well, they're doing it, work or not
23:16:28  * Smoovious shrugs.
23:19:40  <Bjarni> daylight saving hour is crap
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23:20:28  <Smoovious> I agree
23:20:44  <Bjarni> like on the farms, the milk truck shows up at a certain time and all of a sudden it shows up an hour earlier. The farmers then have to give them hormones to deliver milk an hour earlier than they are used to.
23:20:48  <Smoovious> why do I gotta be robbed of my darkness just because people don't like turning their damned headlights on
23:21:08  <Smoovious> no, they give them at the same time, it just seems like they don't
23:21:21  <Smoovious> unless they really are going by the clock instead of daybreak
23:21:34  <Bjarni> they go by the clock
23:21:39  <Bjarni> at least they did a few years ago
23:22:07  <Smoovious> well, that's just silly... as if their livestock follow daylight savings time
23:22:42  <Bjarni> the new kind of milking robots where the cows can walk into it by themselves partly solves this issue, but since they are so expensive, many farmers tries to do without them
23:23:13  <Smoovious> yeah... I saw a system like that on a tech show once... looked pretty cool... not as messy as the whole corral type system
23:23:42  * Smoovious grins
23:24:04  <Smoovious> just don't wanna be standing too close to one of those machines if you have a rip in your pants, and it starts to activate
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23:25:31  <Smoovious> get a chance to check out the diff yet, Bjarni?
23:26:33  <Bjarni> you guys demand too much
23:26:40  <Bjarni> I got two diffs at the same time :p
23:26:50  <Smoovious> sorry, didn't know someone else hit ya up too
23:26:54  <Smoovious> lemme know
23:30:28  <Bjarni> Smoovious: now it compiled
23:30:31  <Bjarni> what should I test?
23:30:41  <Bjarni> that I didn't get any warnings/errors?
23:30:57  <Bjarni> I didn't
23:31:47  <Bjarni> 	<Smoovious>	just don't wanna be standing too close to one of those machines if you have a rip in your pants, and it starts to activate <-- pervert. I didn't even think about such things :P
23:32:06  <Bjarni> besides it wouldn't work
23:32:32  <Bjarni> the robot knows every single cow and will not activate unless a known cow shows up
23:32:37  <Bjarni> I think
23:32:50  <Bjarni> it logs how much milk each cow produces and when
23:33:10  <Smoovious> well, I got mine set up as a server... I expanded how much text stays on the screen a little bit... fixed the window dimensions so long messages don't go over the top like before... added a setting to set how long in real-time seconds before they dissapear
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23:33:38  <Smoovious> yeah... they showed that too... it is a pretty damned impressive system
23:34:09  <Bjarni> and the quality of the milk. It also discards bad milk and notes it in the log. It has to empty the tits even if it has issues, so it just reroute the pipes so it will not get mixed with the drinkable milk
23:34:20  * Smoovious nods.
23:34:33  <Bjarni> and it sends an SMS to the farmer that he should take a look at the cow in question
23:34:42  <Smoovious> I believe it'll also retain a sample for analysis too... so the farmer can figure out what is bad about it etc
23:34:46  * Smoovious nods.
23:35:07  <Smoovious> it sure beats the washed hands and a bucket
23:35:19  <Bjarni> maybe and maybe not
23:35:51  <Bjarni> if you do it manually the cow will get used to you and know you
23:35:58  <Bjarni> kind of like how a pet knows you
23:36:21  <Smoovious> anyways... later on, probably later in the week, I'm going to go back in and see what I can do with the chat-messages system to be more dynamic... adjust for screen size, etc...
23:37:33  <Bjarni> should I test anything now that I compiled with your patch applied?
23:38:08  <Smoovious> if you wish... the fact you didn't get any errors compiling helps out a lot in itself... one platform I don't have to worry about compensating for...
23:38:40  <Smoovious> if ya wanna connect to my test server, or just start a LAN game by yourself, and type some chat to make sure it really sticks around for 60 seconds before dissapearing you could
23:39:14  <Smoovious> you can change the amount of time... I left the old 10-game-day limit in there too as a minimum, and so if you chat while paused, they all won't dissapear at once when you unpause
23:40:15  <Bjarni> I can't join your server
23:40:29  <Bjarni> wrong revision (most likely)
23:40:33  <Bjarni> all of them are red
23:40:54  <Smoovious> the old way would only show 10 messages at once, with a max of 30 lines for long messages... I changed it to keep 24 messages and 24 lines
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23:40:57  <Smoovious> hmm...
23:41:18  <Smoovious> dunno about that then... what revision is it showing for me?
23:42:19  <Bjarni> what is the name of your server?
23:42:35  <Smoovious> "Smoov's just for testing"
23:42:51  <Smoovious> can try direct to
23:43:53  <Bjarni> ahh
23:43:58  <Bjarni> silly windows port
23:44:01  <Bjarni> norev000
23:44:14  <Bjarni> it doesn't know what revision it is, so it says 0
23:44:20  * Smoovious nods.
23:44:22  <glx> hehe MSVC is nice ;)
23:44:27  <Smoovious> yeah, noticed that too
23:46:28  <Smoovious> dunno where to set that, yet...
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23:47:28  <Bjarni> now I has the same version (faked) and then it complains about newgrf files :p
23:47:42  * Smoovious chuckles.
23:47:43  <Smoovious> sorry :D
23:48:05  <Smoovious> lemme just quick roll up a tiny default map
23:48:06  <Rubidium> yay! the direct connect newgrf checks work :)
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23:48:44  <Smoovious> there we go
23:48:47  <Smoovious> try again
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