Log for #openttd on 28th March 2007:
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00:05:17  <Digitalfox[Home]> Since celestar raised the real speed in game of airplanes ( commit in trunk ), is the income still the same or with this change, they give more income on the same distance and cargo?
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02:25:49  <Digitalfox[Home]> Assertion Failed using last windows nightly 9504:
02:25:51  <Digitalfox[Home]> File: roadveh_cmd.cpp
02:25:53  <Digitalfox[Home]> Line: 1568
02:25:54  <Digitalfox[Home]> Expression: HASBIT(v->u.road.state, RVS_IS_STOPPING)
02:25:56  <Digitalfox[Home]> Using George LV4~and Planeset
02:26:36  <Digitalfox[Home]> This happen when a new plane showed up in jornal.
02:26:55  <Digitalfox[Home]> the year was something like 1960 to 1970
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02:58:47  <DaleStan> Digitalfox: I'm guessing that'll be hard to reproduce (and, therefore, fix) without a demonstrating save.
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07:57:47  <BR> glx: RC2 I meant, it was late ;P
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08:20:10  <Wolf01> hello
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08:22:09  <Smoovious> hi
08:24:41  <Wolf01> i can see that there is another branch :)
08:31:15  * Tobin look at the server list
08:31:27  <Tobin> I've been away too long.
08:36:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9512 /branches/noai/ [NoAI] -Fix: remove .svn dirs in 'make bundle', via 'find' and 'xargs', I hope all systems support this... (alternatives are welcome ;))
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08:39:11  <Wolf01> TrueBrain, tortoise allow the user to customize the svn folder, you can use _svn too
08:39:57  <Wolf01> this under windows
08:41:16  <Rubidium> Wolf01: then they make their system non svn-cli compatible, which messes with the possibility to acquire the revision number automatically, so I don't see a problem with that
08:41:35  <Rubidium> if you really want to use non-standard stuff, don't expect it to work correctly
08:42:04  <Wolf01> i never said i use this, but just that there is an option to do it
08:43:45  <Wolf01> and i think that prevent is better than fix :P
08:43:52  <Rubidium> you was more meant as 'if one really wants...'
08:44:03  <Wolf01> yeah
08:44:53  <Rubidium> Wolf01: does mingw's command line svn client know about the customizable svn directories?
08:45:23  <Wolf01> i don't know, i never tried
08:57:21  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: there is an 'option' for that yes, a seperate binary from tortoise which they talk hard about NOT USING UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DO! And they ONLY advise it for MSVC users. And is ONLY for Windows. Neither case is of any interest for the configure-system
08:58:18  <Jezral> Btw, you don't need xargs in a call to wipe .svn folders: find . -type d -name '.svn' -exec rm -rf {} \;
08:59:21  <TrueBrain> Jezral: for fun, try to run it. You will see the need for xargs :)
08:59:30  <Jezral> I use it all the works.
08:59:49  <TrueBrain> it will throw you a bunch of those: find: bundle/ai/SQNoAI/.svn: No such file or directory
08:59:52  <Jezral> It'll complain about missing folders, but it'll still wipe them all.
09:00:05  <TrueBrain> yes, and what does that mean for it's error code?
09:00:10  <TrueBrain> and what does that mean for the process?
09:00:14  <TrueBrain> so therefor we use xargs :)
09:00:31  <TrueBrain> if you give a suggestion, at least give a good one ;)
09:02:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9513 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix: disable strict-aliasing to make GCC 4 stop bitching about it
09:03:01  <tkoskine> How about 'find . -depth ...'? It shouldn't complain about missing directories.
09:03:55  <TrueBrain> you know, you might be right
09:03:55  <Jezral> You want it to recurse indefinetly.
09:03:59  <Rubidium> tkoskine: ai/.svn and ai/regression.svn must be removed
09:04:11  <TrueBrain> tkoskine: -depth does something else then I assumed by its name :p
09:04:14  <Rubidium> tkoskine: ai/.svn and ai/regression/.svn must be removed
09:04:22  <TrueBrain> -depth Process each directory's contents before the directory itself.
09:05:05  <tkoskine> Hmm, and -depth doesn't seem to be portable (OpenBSD's find doesn't have it). A bad idea then. :)
09:05:08  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: in fact, ai/.svn isn't there :) But ai/myai/mydir/.svn does :p
09:05:12  <TrueBrain> tkoskine: -d :)
09:05:15  <TrueBrain> is POSIX compatible :p
09:05:37  <TrueBrain> -POSIX +OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD and MacOSX
09:05:38  <TrueBrain> :p
09:05:45  <TrueBrain> (so the 'man find' tells me)
09:06:06  <TrueBrain> find: warning: the -d option is deprecated; please use -depth instead, because the latter is a POSIX-compliant feature.
09:06:07  <TrueBrain> LOL!
09:06:33  <TrueBrain> works nice :) Tnx tkoskine
09:07:48  <tkoskine> Don't thank me yet :). On Debian 3.1: find: invalid predicate `-d'
09:07:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9514 /branches/noai/ [NoAI] -Fix r9512: 'find' can do it on its own (without 'xargs') if you add -d(epth) (tkoskine)
09:08:03  <TrueBrain> Too late :(
09:08:24  <TrueBrain> does -depth exist there?
09:08:50  <tkoskine> Yes, Debian's find has -depth, but -depth it doesn't work on *BSD.s
09:09:13  <TrueBrain> $(Q)find $(BUNDLE_DIR)/ai/ -depth -iname '*.svn' -exec rm -Rf {} \; || $(Q)find $(BUNDLE_DIR)/ai/ -d -iname '*.svn' -exec rm -Rf {} \;
09:09:18  <TrueBrain> should solve it for all systems, not? :)
09:10:16  * TrueBrain hugs Gentoo, at least it knows both -depth and -d
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09:10:58  <tkoskine> Yes, find . -depth||find . -d should work on all systems.
09:11:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9515 /branches/noai/ [NoAI] -Fix r9514: some systems know find -d, others find -depth... don't you just love it?
09:11:19  <TrueBrain> a bit of magic, but oh well, as long as it works :)
09:12:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9516 /3rdparty/squirrel/sqstdlib/sqstdrex.cpp: [Squirrel] -Fix: silence warning about a variable being clobbered by longjmp (glx).
09:15:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9517 /3rdparty/squirrel/sqstdlib/sqstdrex.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: silence 64bit warnings (printing 64bit int with %d results in warning)
09:17:52  <TrueBrain> 3 commits to do one simple task (removing .svn dir)... how idiotic!
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09:27:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9518 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix [Windows]: do not free an uninitialized pointer.
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11:10:14  <BR> anyone able to confirm or deny my possible bug, I have brought two of my competitors for  each, I have managed to turn their air lines around but I don't seem to be getting the aircraft income, only the expenses relating to them...
11:16:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> you should probably provide a savegame and instructions how to reproduce
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12:05:30  <Ailure> uhm
12:07:08  <Thomas[NL]>
12:07:24  <Thomas[NL]> not a fix for your bug...
12:09:21  <Ailure>
12:09:25  <Ailure> This is kinda my fault
12:09:32  <Ailure> I kinda forced hard games on him :D
12:09:39  <Ailure> The tree-hugging nut he refers to
12:09:39  <Ailure> is me
12:09:47  <Ailure> as I don't like overly terraforming
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12:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: i'd rather suggest disabling the buttons
12:40:34  <Thomas[NL]> Eddi|zuHause3 its not my patch, just wanted to point you guys to it
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12:44:07  <peter1138> Ailure: forced how?
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12:45:53  <Ailure> I hosted some private server games
12:45:54  <Ailure> xD
12:46:18  <Ailure> And I tend to act as a police sometimes
12:46:30  <Ailure> such as "do not flat that mountain!!!"
12:51:37  <Ailure>
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12:54:58  <Thomas[NL]> does not load here ...
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14:31:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r9519 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix r7406 (revert r9318): free the malloced variable, not a pointer to that variable. Also free it if there's any error.
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14:42:55  <Belugas> i wonder...
14:44:24  <Belugas> does it make sens that randomly (during gameplay) oil rigs are allowed only after 1960, but yet, can be manually funded before
14:44:45  <Sacro|Laptop> no
14:44:51  <Belugas> should they follow the same pattern, no matter what is the creation method?
14:44:57  <Sacro|Laptop> i reckon they should
14:45:14  <Belugas> indeed
14:46:50  <Belugas> but then, it would mean OR disabling the widgets OR sharing the same pre-requisite
14:46:54  <Belugas> or something
14:47:32  <Belugas> same goes for oil refinery
14:47:38  <Digitalfox> Belugas just like airports where they are blocked until some year :)
14:47:54  <Belugas> and more, i believe...
14:48:06  <Belugas> yeah,true Digitalfox
14:49:17  <Digitalfox> But oil refiney is another thing, since oil wells needs them ;)
14:49:44  <Belugas> true
14:50:28  <Digitalfox> I believe oil rigs should be blocked until 1960
14:51:36  <Digitalfox> It doesn't make much sence starting a game in 1850 and build a oil rig ;)
14:53:16  <peter1138> yars
14:53:22  <peter1138> block manual building
14:53:43  <peter1138> or leave it because it's unnecessary complexity?
14:53:44  <peter1138> :p
14:54:21  <Belugas> not really complicated...\
14:54:24  <Belugas> not NOW ;)
14:54:32  <Belugas> but... maybe confusing?
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16:22:24  <Wolf01> hello
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17:26:02  <Immow> hello :)
17:27:03  <Immow> A great feature for TTD just came to mind: how about grouping trains/plains etcetra so you can "replace" or change orders more swiftly?
17:27:22  <Sionide> planes, of course..
17:27:28  <Immow> err
17:27:32  <Immow> planes
17:27:36  <Sionide> ;)
17:27:39  <Immow> sorry my english is not so good
17:27:45  <Sionide> dunno, sounds like a good plan
17:27:47  <Wolf01> ehm, and shared orders what are for?
17:28:04  <Sionide> Wolf01, you still have to click on every single train
17:28:11  <Sionide> but then again, you'd have to do that to group them anyway
17:28:17  <Immow> no
17:28:19  <Wolf01> no, onli one
17:28:21  <Immow> if you make 1 train
17:28:23  <Wolf01> *y
17:28:29  <Immow> give that the right orders
17:28:32  <Immow> and give it a group
17:28:33  <Immow> then clone it
17:28:35  <Immow> done ;)
17:29:05  <Immow> or make the "train list menu" with selection option
17:29:10  <Immow> so you can edit stuff there
17:29:36  <Immow> sounds like a good idea no?
17:29:37  <Wolf01> if you share orders you can change them in one train for all
17:29:45  <Immow> share?
17:29:48  <Wolf01> share
17:29:57  <Immow> ofcourse not
17:29:58  <Wolf01> ctrl+click when cloning
17:30:19  <Immow> all trains in TTD are standalone no... not linked I think
17:30:49  <Wolf01> there are shared orders which do what you want :)
17:31:19  <Patrick> yes, ctrl-assign will share orders instead of copy them
17:31:24  <Immow> so I create 1 train give it the orders then clone it holding down control makes it a "shared orders train" ?
17:31:28  <Patrick> and ctrl-clone will share cclonred orders
17:31:29  <Patrick> yes
17:31:54  <Immow> then one of those trains, if I change the orders all will change?
17:32:09  <Patrick> yes
17:32:10  <Wolf01> yes
17:32:13  <Immow> cool
17:32:17  <Patrick> it's newish
17:32:17  <Immow> thats so nice to know :D
17:32:19  <Patrick> since about 0.4
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17:32:33  <Immow> well, I haven't played game for ages
17:32:55  <Immow> but my friend yesterday asked me.. so then this idea poped up :)
17:34:22  <Immow> but this "sharing" is not posible for exsisting trains?
17:34:27  <Patrick> yes, it is
17:34:39  <Patrick> set waypoint on another existing train to copy orders
17:34:48  <Patrick> hold ctrl to make shared orders
17:34:52  <Immow> oke
17:35:25  <Immow> nice :)
17:35:33  <Immow> know more of those things that are handy?
17:36:35  <Immow> for instance lets say I want to build a train thats 52 long, is it posible to buy x amount of wagons?
17:39:48  * Immow gives Wolf01 some meat for atention
17:40:06  <Zuu> Immow: I don't think so, but another handy thing is in a train-list (or any other vehicle-sort) in the bottom of the window there is a list of actions you can do with the list including replacing engines/vehicles.
17:40:20  <Immow> I know
17:40:34  <Immow> but the power of the ctrl key sliped my atention :3
17:40:51  <Zuu> ctrl is much older, but guess not so obvious to new users :)
17:40:56  <Immow> yes
17:41:30  <Immow> 1 moer question
17:41:33  <Zuu> ctrl: makes the command more powerfull
17:41:39  <Zuu> shift: gives the cost of the command
17:41:46  <Immow> my friend is trying to change the time needed to join multi game
17:41:46  <Zuu> In general.
17:41:46  <Wolf01> ctrl make presignal, clone orders, remove tracks with autorail without using R
17:41:57  <Immow> I take to long to join so I get kicked out (very large map)
17:42:04  <Immow> where can he change this?
17:42:09  <Wolf01> thanks for the meat
17:42:54  <Wolf01> set the max_join_time to an higer value, default is 500
17:42:55  <Immow> remove tracks with autorail
17:42:56  <Immow> wow!
17:43:09  <Zuu> Immow: you find the setting in openttd.cfg
17:43:19  <Immow> he can find it he say's :P
17:43:21  <Immow> can't
17:43:37  <Zuu> Another nice ctrl-thing is to pay back your whole loan or take max-loan.
17:43:56  <Sacro> Immow: says
17:44:15  <Immow> aha
17:44:26  <Immow> I can speak it ok
17:44:30  <Immow> but hard to write ;P
17:44:51  <Sacro> it's just a matter of knowing when to use an apostrophe
17:44:58  <Immow> btw, the console key?
17:45:05  <Immow> the ~ dont work for me
17:45:14  <Zuu> Immow: max_join_time should be under [network]
17:45:38  <Zuu> If it is not there try adding it. (don't know if that work though)
17:45:51  <Zuu> max_join_time = 1000
17:45:52  <Immow> oke
17:45:54  <Zuu> for example
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17:52:21  <Immow> yay it worked thnx Zuu :D
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18:30:33  <Niki_> can anyone help me with last nights nightly?
18:30:42  <Niki_> the dedicated server doesnt work (compile from source)
18:30:49  <Niki_> pretends to be online, but it isnt
18:31:01  <Niki_> the config file is being rewritten all the time (the ip addy)
18:31:08  <Niki_> and it doesnt fork into background
18:32:02  <Patrick> interesting
18:32:39  <Niki_> any ideas/sollution? i want to play with my faroese friend, as nothing is on tv (germany)
18:33:32  <peter1138> i must admit, it works perfectly for me
18:33:35  <Patrick> use the previous nightly?
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18:34:05  <Niki_> um... would it work?
18:34:10  <Niki_> peter what might be the problem
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18:34:26  <peter1138> make a backup of your config and check with a fresh one?
18:34:41  <peter1138> it that solves it, i want your config, heh
18:34:50  <antichaos> could anyone help me with a rather tricky saveload coding problem?
18:36:33  <Niki_> ILL KILL THE SYSADMIN
18:36:42  <Niki_> i want to play - he emerges world
18:38:42  <Niki_> well
18:38:45  <Niki_> i moved the config
18:38:50  <Niki_> and still doesnt work
18:39:00  <Niki_> openttd.cfg is the right config name, eh? maybe i fuzzed something up
18:39:23  <Niki_> and it still doesnt fork
18:40:08  <Niki_> well then
18:40:15  <Niki_> peter may i play on your nightly server? :D
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18:45:13  <antichaos> hmm, particularly helpful comment here : /* Do something of which I have no idea what it is :P
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19:55:03  <Belugas> hohooo...
19:55:13  <Belugas> behaviour  and  behavior
19:55:31  <Belugas> that looks like colour and color to me
19:55:59  <Belugas> so.... judging from my experience, i would say that the proper spelling would be behaviour
19:56:12  <Digitalfox[Home]> How to use autoreplace, when vehicles like buses have different reffiting??
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19:57:47  <Digitalfox[Home]> I have some buses and i want to autoreplace with newer ones, and the bus i chose have different reffitable.. So how to choise in autoreplace reffitable?
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20:04:55  <peter1138> road vehicle autoreplace is pretty shit for that
20:05:05  *** antichaos [] has joined #openttd
20:05:16  <peter1138> mainly cos i never bothered updating after i added refitting for them :p
20:06:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9520 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
20:06:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add the notion of Industry behaviour. It means what an industry
20:06:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: can do (plant fields, cut trees, do not change production), what can be done to
20:06:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: it (disasters like mine subsidence, jet/chopper attack), when it can be built
20:06:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: etc...
20:06:56  <antichaos> oooh
20:10:14  *** _Ben_ [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
20:11:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9521 /trunk/projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj: -Fix(9520): Partly revert, accidentally commited an unnecessary change
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20:12:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9522 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r9073): the entries in source.list are supposed to be sorted alphabetically.
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20:41:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9523 /trunk/src/ (14 files): -Cleanup: doxygen changes. Time to take care of "R"
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20:56:29  <Ailure> stupid network
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21:07:07  <Ailure>
21:07:13  <Ailure> I hate looking impatient
21:07:20  <Ailure> but have anyone else been able to reproduce this bug?
21:11:34  *** glx|away [] has joined #openttd
21:12:26  <Rubidium> Ailure: yes, but RL takes so much time I haven't had time to find the actual cause.
21:13:27  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
21:15:11  <Ailure> Hehe, I didn't exactly demand it being fixed right away. ;)
21:15:36  <Ailure> And that's fair enough for me anyway.
21:15:51  <Ailure> If I was experienced with the internal workings of openTTD, I probably would been looking into it now.
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21:19:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:23:09  <_Ben_> Hi, wondering if somebody (who knows!) can help me understand this problem...It was partly explained a bit ago, but I've bumped into additional hurdles
21:23:17  <_Ben_>
21:24:09  <_Ben_> For this ^^, Is there any reason that B cannot render after A, rather than the other (current) way round?
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21:25:10  <_Ben_> If A then renders first in the queue, would that then appear on the background layer (along with the normal ground sprites) or would it still sit above them, but just at the bottom of the stack?
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21:35:21  <smithj> hello
21:35:36  <valhallasw> _Ben_: only if you put tiles besides eachother
21:35:41  <valhallasw> I think
21:35:45  <valhallasw> but I'm not a 3d coder
21:37:09  <_Ben_> valhallasw: I'm not talking about anything 3d.  All 32bpp things are flatterned images
21:38:05  <valhallasw> what do you mean with rendering then?
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21:39:34  <_Ben_> Sorry, My termonology on the programming side is probably completly wrong.  I just mean, when sprites get displayed on a monitor when playing TT, they get layered in some order
21:40:19  <valhallasw> yes
21:40:32  <_Ben_> so sprite B (wich is the wall) gets put behind the main tile (A), and therefore, A appears later than its neighbouring tiles wich causes a lot of problems
21:40:57  <_Ben_> (asuming the neighbouring tiles are just nothing more than grass or something
21:41:03  <_Ben_> )
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21:58:35  <Rubidium> _Ben_: it has all to do with the bounding boxes of the sprites and they are sorted; because the bounding box of B is below (in z) A it gets drawn first
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22:00:04  <_Ben_> Rubidium: yep, you were the person taht explained that to me a week or so ago I think.  I was wondering if there is a reason (in the example) for the order being as it is
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22:03:05  <Rubidium> take sprite #340, it has the same bounding box in the x-y plane as A, but because the z-part of the boundingbox is less than A it gets drawn below A. It is not drawing just what is B in your image.
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22:04:07  <Rubidium> how do you expect a box that is below another box to be drawn from top to bottom?
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22:04:53  <peter1138>
22:05:19  <peter1138> ^^ needs 1) testing for optimal minimum 2) gui fixing 3) profit
22:05:39  <peter1138> nini
22:10:01  <_Ben_> Rubiduim, are ok. Theres something that I'm yet to understand here it would seem
22:10:06  <_Ben_> Rubidium*
22:11:11  <Rubidium> every non-ground tile has a bounding box that is used to determine the order in which the tiles are drawn
22:15:30  <_Ben_> Rubidium: ok erk!.  I don't understand what you mean about a box being drawin from top to bottom.  I thorught the problem Im having here was just the result of A and B being displayed seperately, and B being displayed first then A.  or is that incorrect?  do they merge together and both display later than other surrounding ground tiles?
22:16:52  <Rubidium> _Ben_: you wanted that B is drawn after A. With this system that can only be done if you invert the ordering, which is bad (vehicles drawn under the road) <- that's what I tried to make clear there
22:18:21  <Rubidium> but yes, B is drawn and then A is drawn
22:18:30  <Rubidium> (I think)
22:19:03  <_Ben_> sorry, I'm awair youve had to repeat what you said, but I'm not keeping up!.  I think Im fundementally seeing this from the wrong angle
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22:22:44  <_Ben_> Rubidium: I think I'm asking (!) how one would go about altering the z value of tiles that are used in position B and A, so to (in effect) swap them round)
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22:25:04  <Rubidium> I think you might be able to do that via a newgrf
22:25:16  <Rubidium> but how exactly I wouldn't know
22:25:50  <_Ben_> hmm, ok, thats good.  Thanks for the help
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22:52:43  <Belugas> Ailure, i just tried it, i cannot reproduce the bug
22:52:58  <Ailure> what OS?
22:53:05  <Belugas> i wonder if a special build cannot be made for you, with lots of debug infos
22:53:06  <Ailure> Someone with Linux tried it, but couldn't reproduce it
22:53:09  <Belugas> winxp
22:53:25  <Ailure> hmm odd
22:53:27  <Belugas> will try something
22:53:29  <Belugas> be back
22:53:31  <Ailure> it crashed for friends of mine as well
22:53:42  <Ailure> under similar conditions
22:54:33  <Rubidium> Belugas: you can reproduce it too, you just need to do the right (tm) thing ;)
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23:50:43  <Belugas> i guess so, Rubidium :)
23:50:55  <Belugas> i just have not find the proper incantation ^^
23:51:10  <Immow> ah man I had so much fun... TT rox
23:52:12  <Immow> if you watch how a zeplin lands when your stoned... I almost fell out of my chair laughing the rest was ok :3
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23:54:23  <Belugas> Ailure, got it.
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23:54:39  <Belugas> it is when you addthe order "refit" to the vehicle
23:54:50  <Belugas> ok, on debug mode now
23:55:17  <Belugas> Immow, i'm glad you enjoy yourself so much
23:55:34  <Belugas> maybe you will have as much fun been straight, by the way ;)
23:57:52  <Immow> sure :)
23:57:54  <Immow> the game rox
23:58:01  <Immow> I just found that funny..
23:58:26  <Immow> I never use em.. so this was new for me ;)
23:59:31  <glx> hehe try toyland :)

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