Log for #openttd on 24th April 2007:
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05:48:03  <boekabart_> hm. Don't let AI play scenarios with lakes.
05:48:11  <boekabart_> ... people will die ...
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05:53:30  <boekabart_> how to add sealevel to the save game?
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06:12:13  <peter1138> add it to settings.cpp as a SLE_CONDVAR
06:12:26  <peter1138> and bump the savegame version
06:12:32  <peter1138> probably also add it to settings_gui.cpp
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06:20:40  <boekabart_> settings.cpp: done; savegame version: done; but how does the game know how to handle the last and the new versions?
06:21:01  <boekabart_> gui: how to do this 'scenario editor only' ?
06:21:17  <boekabart_> ignore in handler fn?
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07:41:26  <blathijs> jordi: :-D
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08:29:54  <boekabart_> peter1138: Why did you think it's better to store sea level in a patch?
08:30:17  <boekabart_> in _patches, that is
08:30:45  <peter1138> it's not entirely
08:30:54  <peter1138> initial_sealevel would be better
08:30:57  <peter1138> but
08:31:06  <peter1138> i dunno
08:31:11  * peter1138 gets back to work :p
08:31:20  <boekabart_> ok
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09:04:37  <Maedhros> morning
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12:30:41  <boekabart_> updated my deep water patch:
12:32:04  <peter1138> rivers :D
12:32:08  <peter1138> though
12:32:31  <peter1138> need to add river graphics... hmm
12:32:42  <peter1138> boekabart_, if this will work right
12:32:49  <peter1138> boekabart_, we all want your babies
12:33:09  <hylje> just post screenshots and a request for sprites in some ttd forum
12:33:24  <hylje> i'm fairly sure some grf makers / other artists are interested
12:33:40  <boekabart_> hylje: Doing that now
12:34:07  <boekabart_> re river graphics: different water and 'waterfall' gfx?
12:34:21  <peter1138> river's fine, just need slopes i think
12:34:24  <boekabart_> at least the latter
12:34:25  <boekabart_> yea
12:34:32  <peter1138> also: can ships go up rivers?
12:34:37  <peter1138> i'd guess no
12:34:45  <peter1138> the water slopes can be made rocky, then
12:34:57  <hylje> yes
12:35:01  <hylje> and locks are required for bypass
12:35:13  <peter1138> yeah
12:35:49  <peter1138> hmm, corner slopes too
12:37:01  <_Ben_> would the river graphics be able to be animated like the water?
12:37:21  <peter1138> only in exactly the same way
12:37:34  <peter1138> i don't think you'd be able to make it look like it's flowing
12:37:45  <peter1138> probably can do on the slopes though
12:38:00  <_Ben_> I've not looked at how thats done.  Is there x seperate sprites, or is there some automatic variation of 1 sprite or something?
12:38:09  <peter1138> no, it's palette animation
12:38:12  <boekabart_> flowing: no, definately not possible, tile doesn't know where to, where from
12:38:49  <boekabart_> locks in river/lake work perfectly, i tested that.
12:38:55  <hylje> by the way
12:39:12  <boekabart_> should i make an extra posting in the graphics forum (current post is in dev) ?
12:39:13  <hylje> seeding a lake on top of a mountain will flood most of the map?
12:39:29  <boekabart_> (with the request for waterfall gfx?)
12:39:52  <boekabart_> hylje: yes, if you don't design the riverbed well, it will
12:40:05  <peter1138> scenario editor only :)
12:40:12  <hylje> oh, goodie
12:40:18  <peter1138> damn
12:40:19  <hylje> gameplay it would be rather lame
12:40:30  <peter1138> my X server is... laggy :/
12:40:31  <boekabart_> yes, it's scenario editor only. also changing sea level.
12:40:47  <boekabart_> by design.
12:40:59  <hylje> good
12:41:28  <peter1138> *nod*
12:41:40  <peter1138> did you remove the patch option? heh
12:41:52  <peter1138> well
12:41:53  <hylje> is it a map option?
12:41:58  <hylje> or a global?
12:42:07  <peter1138> hylje: very little difference
12:42:35  <peter1138> why don't i look at the diff.. hehe
12:42:40  <hylje> :p
12:42:47  <hylje> its easier to just ask
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12:49:14  <boekabart_> no, i made this the UI: in patches, you set the default sea level. If in scenario editor, this will be applied immediately. If not, it will apply when starting a new scenario or starting a new (generated map) game
12:54:15  <Thomas[NL]> nice work with the sealevel-patch
12:54:47  <hylje> boekabart_: so sealevel is map-specific?
12:55:28  <boekabart_> yes, saved in _m[0].m3
12:57:34  <peter1138> mmm, hidden data :)
12:57:44  <peter1138> sort of
12:58:19  <boekabart_> problem is that I can't prevent patches.sealevel to be changes in game-mode
12:58:26  <boekabart_> and in callback, don't know last value
12:59:06  * boekabart_ is hungry. Going to get a couple of McKroket for 1 euro each
12:59:15  <hylje> cheezy
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13:12:41  <_Ben_> finally...I suck at searching.  I proposed the raised lakes and flowing water ages ago and did an image, but looking at it it wouldn't fit the current request, theres multiple different tiles.
13:13:24  <hylje> think the code is flexible enough to have that kind of gradient
13:14:04  <nowhere> looks cool ben
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13:16:26  <_Ben_> I wonder what it would look like if some one added either a) 1 river bit on a slope and the slope conitnued, or 2) a river bit that went to the bottom of a hill and met a hill slope on the other side, so channeled down a midtile gulley
13:20:02  <Belugas> boekabart_ : you may ask lepkka, on the TTDPatch forums.  He's the one behind the newwater grf file.  If there's one guy who knows how to draw water with palette animations, he must be the one!
13:21:31  <Thomas[NL]> _Ben_, you may want to post that picture on the forum to inspire gfx-artists. (
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13:24:08  <TheJosh> Hey is it possible to compile an openttd binary for windows on linux? I keep getting requests for openttd with a patch I made applied, but people dont understand source patching
13:24:33  <peter1138> yes
13:24:37  <Thomas[NL]>
13:24:42  <peter1138> but not that trivial
13:24:51  <Thomas[NL]> never tried it myself though
13:24:53  <peter1138> best solution: tell them to stfu :)
13:25:08  <TheJosh> I saw the configure option, but didnt know the different values to use
13:25:10  <TheJosh> Thanks
13:25:18  <blathijs> TheJosh: What patch is it?
13:25:29  <peter1138> TheJosh: i tried to make it network safe but didn't have much luck :/
13:25:50  <Sacro> hmm, cross compilinig
13:26:04  <Sacro> TheJosh: try searching for MinGW in your distros repo
13:26:19  <TheJosh> I cant be bothered, too much effort
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13:26:37  <TheJosh> peter1138: I will get it, i need to make a DoCommand hook
13:26:52  <peter1138> TheJosh: no, it's not that
13:26:57  <peter1138> it's the command itself
13:27:02  <TheJosh> blathijs: Its the 'fund a town' patch
13:27:05  <peter1138> the patch is fine and does it correctly
13:27:25  <TheJosh> Was i was about to say, my hook will need to be smarter than the current code
13:27:36  <TheJosh> this patch is basically proof-of-concept
13:28:20  <TheJosh> because i had seen the funciton when i made my last patch, and then when i saw the discussion, i thought 'ohh, that might be easy'...
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13:29:02  <TheJosh> what do you think I would need to do to get networking to work?
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13:39:26  <TheJosh> peter1138: How should networking be done do you think?
13:39:58  <peter1138> by making CmdBuildTown work as expected, some how
13:40:31  <TheJosh> And tunneling it all through a DoCommand, rather than calling it direct
13:41:00  <peter1138> last time i looked at your patch, it did
13:41:27  <peter1138> +DoCommandP(tile, size, mode, CcBuildTown, CMD_BUILD_TOWN | CMD_MSG(STR_0236_CAN_T_BUILD_TOWN_HERE));
13:41:32  <peter1138> +//CmdBuildTown(tile, DC_EXEC, 1, TSM_FIXED);
13:41:38  <peter1138> you tried it both ways :)
13:46:26  <TheJosh> alright
13:46:35  <TheJosh> this patch is pretty hacked
13:47:34  <TheJosh> The original CmdBuildTown needs to be left, and i need to create CmdFundTown (cos the original function is used by the scenario editor)
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13:49:17  <peter1138> it just needs fixing
13:50:17  <Ailure> woah
13:50:50  <TheJosh> it should be split though. different functions for different functuality
13:51:19  <peter1138> i don't see it as different
13:51:26  <peter1138> but anyway
13:51:30  <peter1138> lunch-sort-of-thing...
13:51:51  <Ailure> bah
13:51:54  <Ailure> it's not on thelocal
13:52:01  <Ailure> but anyway
13:52:19  <Ailure> someone was hit by a train and survived with only light wounds
13:52:23  <Ailure> the train actually ran over him and stuff
13:55:16  <TheJosh> anywya im off, tired (tis almost midnight) i am trying to recover data off a ntfs drive one of the pastors at my church gave me
13:55:48  <TheJosh> i was able to remount it, but its got about 45gig od stuff on it, and i only have 15gig free on the box im doing the recover
13:56:11  <TheJosh> so i keep deleting files (starting with movies, then music, next up is probably games or whatever)
13:56:13  <TheJosh> how boring!
13:56:15  <TheJosh> anwyay im off
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14:01:54  <yeti_> is anyone familiar with the track upgrade code? i'm looking at rail_cmd.c, lines 915-918 (0.5.1 release sourcecode), and those lines look to me as if a monorail train in a depot should be upgraded to a maglev one when i use convert tracks on the depot
14:02:05  <yeti_> but in the game it just says "cant convert, train in the way"
14:02:15  <yeti_> so what do those line 915.918 actually do?
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14:09:37  <glx> yeti_: this part do the conversion, but the check is before the call of this function
14:10:54  <glx> hmm, I'm wrong
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14:11:48  <glx> yeti_: line 893: the important checks are here
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14:15:34  <yeti_> i'd like to try and write a patch that, when you try to convert a full depot, asks whether the player would like to upgrade all trains in there for a certain price
14:15:47  <yeti_> should not be that difficult, no?
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14:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> upgrade to what?
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14:25:52  <yeti_> eddi: for example i have a monorail depot with two trains in it, then i want to be able to use the convert-to-maglev function on the depot tile so that the depot and the trains inside will be upgraded to maglev, so that i don't have to rebuild every train and copy orders
14:27:00  <peter1138> yes, but upgrade to what? :)
14:27:15  <peter1138> well, i suppose you can modify the autoreplace gui...
14:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need to hsve a replacement rule for every vehicle in the depot
14:28:31  <yeti_> ah, now i see the problem... hmmm well you're right. no easy solution for that one. i first thought about letting older vehicles run on newer tracks(because we could use the existing autoupgrade feature then), but a steam engine on maglev tracks would definitely be stupid
14:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you need an exception for upgrading to a compatible railtype (normal->electric)
14:30:04  <peter1138> one problem is all the wagons are actually different too
14:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you need to be prepared for other railtypes to come
14:30:15  <Belugas> [10:26] <peter1138> well, i suppose you can modify the autoreplace gui... <--- sadistic!
14:30:21  <peter1138> yes
14:34:52  <Sacro> all gui things are sadistic
14:37:06  <glx> autoreplace is worse than others
14:37:44  <peter1138> the build vehicle gui is a bit mad now ;p
14:37:53  <peter1138> coincidence...?
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14:38:38  <yeti_> another idea: modify the "clone train"-feature so that it will even 'clone' a train that is not compatible with the depot's track type, but will then ask which engine to use
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14:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as you have one guy understanding the gui :p
14:38:46  <yeti_> that sounds reasonable, no?
14:39:03  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, who's that? :p
14:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeti_: that sounds pretty stupid
14:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: i have no idea :p
14:39:18  <Zuu> yeti_: I don't think that will help that much for the players.
14:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeti_: again, you also have to replace each wagon
14:40:18  <Belugas> [10:38] <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as you have one guy understanding the gui :p  <--- that guy must always be arouind, or he must have documented HEAVILY his... mmm.. stuff
14:40:23  <Belugas> i was about to say code, but...
14:40:26  <Belugas> stuff is good ;)
14:40:34  <peter1138> STUFF!
14:40:38  <peter1138> hackykid had a stuff build
14:40:49  <Sacro> yeah, i remember that
14:40:53  <Sacro> hackykid by name...
14:41:18  <yeti_> okay then never mind, 'twas just an idea :)
14:41:29  <peter1138> hackystuff by nature?
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14:41:40  <Sacro> peter1138: indeed...
14:41:42  <peter1138> still, at least pbs worked
14:41:43  <peter1138> mostly
14:41:46  <peter1138> well, some of the time
14:42:28  <Sacro> so long as you never edited a live junction
14:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you know what to do :p
14:42:52  <Sacro> oh i loved PBS
14:42:58  <Sacro> my networks aren't the same without it
14:43:21  <Sacro> and in roughly a month, when i finish college, i will get back into coding
14:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, editing the junction is fine, you just need the signal gui to directly place pbs signals, or you will destroy the signal block
14:45:01  <Sacro> peter1138: are you an OpenTTD Mod?
14:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are some fun situations, like when you place a signal in the already reserved path, the train gets stuck :p
14:45:28  <Sacro> hehe
14:45:39  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: did i show you my NOR signals?
14:46:02  <Sacro> it only goes green when all exits are blocked
14:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen some nor signals, and i find them stupid
14:46:05  <peter1138> Sacro: depends what you want
14:46:06  <Sacro> its quite pointless
14:46:11  <Sacro> peter1138: is that allowed?
14:46:54  <peter1138> no idea
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14:58:22  <Brianetta> Well, it's crossposting, but it's also on-topic
14:58:33  <Brianetta> I say escalate the question
14:58:36  <Brianetta> poke Owen
14:58:45  <Sacro> i proded him on #tycoon
14:59:03  <Brianetta> So you did
14:59:19  <Brianetta> I have written two letters in the last four days
14:59:26  <Sacro> now, i need to backup this laptop to my external drive
14:59:32  <Sacro> but im wary of virii
14:59:40  <Brianetta> Strangely enough, I've written two letters in the past decade
14:59:52  <Sacro> i haven't written a letter in ages
14:59:54  <Brianetta> Although I did type one letter up and post that
15:00:08  <Brianetta> I just inherited a gold fountain pen, though
15:00:09  <Sacro> oh damn
15:00:11  <Brianetta> Not gold plated
15:00:12  <Brianetta> gold
15:00:15  <Sacro> i said i'd go into work tommorow
15:00:18  <Brianetta> as in, when you scrath it, it's still gold
15:00:31  <Sacro> but i also told my housemate i'd take her into beverley
15:00:32  <Brianetta> It's beautiful
15:00:37  <Brianetta> and it's scrawley
15:00:37  <Sacro> Brianetta: nice
15:00:44  <Sacro> i got a gold pen for my 18th, never used it though
15:00:48  <Brianetta> Why wouldn't you go to work?
15:00:54  <Brianetta> Use th epen
15:00:58  <Brianetta> The pen is upset
15:00:59  <Sacro> Brianetta: hot housemate :p
15:01:00  <Brianetta> and feels unwanted
15:01:08  <Sacro> i should
15:01:13  <Sacro> its at my mums though i think
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15:01:19  <Brianetta> What sort of pen is it?
15:01:25  <Sacro> err...
15:01:27  <Brianetta> Mine's a Parker 17
15:01:32  <Sacro> yeah, its a parker i belive
15:01:39  <Brianetta> 12 carat gold
15:01:47  <Sacro> hmm, dunno how many carats
15:04:24  <Brianetta>
15:04:27  <Brianetta> That pen, but
15:04:36  <Brianetta>
15:04:38  <Brianetta> in that finish
15:04:58  <Brianetta> (the top one)
15:05:00  <Sacro> thats the same as the one my mum uses
15:05:11  <Sacro> the 12-07
15:05:14  <Brianetta> Not available any more
15:05:25  <Brianetta> Yeah, that's a ball pen
15:05:30  <Brianetta> in 12 carat gold
15:05:38  <Brianetta> It's the identical finish used on my pen
15:05:40  <Sacro> hers looks more silver
15:05:57  <Brianetta> My pen was used by my grandmother
15:06:11  <Brianetta> My grandfather was presented with it when he retired from the Army as a Sgt Maj
15:06:17  <Belugas> bic, blue, out of the box
15:06:35  <Brianetta> Belugas: They have a whole set of their own advantages!
15:06:57  <Brianetta> Not least that they cost under 2% of the price
15:07:07  <Brianetta> if you buy them by the box, taht is
15:07:16  <peter1138> viruses!
15:07:46  <Brianetta> I was so chuffed with my pen that I went out and bought Basildon Bond stationery
15:08:00  <Brianetta> Then I wrote to Helen's boss
15:08:08  <Brianetta> and my (other) grandmother
15:09:12  <Sacro> nobody handwrites to me :(
15:09:28  <peter1138> especially not me
15:09:33  <peter1138> mind you
15:09:42  <peter1138> i don't type letters either
15:09:54  <Sacro> i don't really e-mail much either
15:10:05  <Sacro> most of my communications are msn, or irc
15:10:10  <Sacro> i hardly use sms
15:10:16  <Brianetta> SMS is an evil
15:10:38  <hylje> :o
15:10:40  <Brianetta> It takes me ten minutes to tap out a message.  When I send one to my sister, she replies with a lengthy message within ten seconds.
15:10:47  <Brianetta> She *HAS* to have some sort of brain interface.
15:10:56  <hylje> or a keyboard
15:10:57  <Zuu> Web SMS is nice, :)
15:11:16  <Zuu> Speed of email, but reaches your friends directly :)
15:11:44  <Brianetta> If they're likely to be holding their phone, I tend to just ring the phone
15:12:02  <Brianetta> I can say a lot more and hang up without even reaching the cost of an SMS
15:13:58  <Zuu> An SMS costs the same as the call connection fee for me, but I usually call anyway unless it is to noisy.
15:14:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> virussians? (*hmm, that sounds funnier in german*)
15:14:49  <Zuu> But I don't think SMS are evil. :)
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16:34:03  <Wolf01> hello
16:34:13  <Thomas[NL]> hi
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16:47:10  <Chrissicom> hi guys :)
16:47:33  <Chrissicom> Rubidium: I've been here because of problems when compiling OpenTTD with VC++ 2005 Express
16:47:44  <Chrissicom> I installed the full Visual Studio 2005 now and the problems are gone
16:47:50  <Chrissicom> so it must have been some kind of config problem :)
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16:49:13  <Chrissicom> I just have one more question
16:49:35  <Chrissicom> when I compile some custom patches in the game, is there anything else I need to replace except the newly compiled openttd.exe in my game folder?
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16:54:26  <Belugas> language file (*.lng) maybe?
16:57:12  <Wolf01> and grfs if you need
16:57:33  <Rubidium> *.lng when there are language changes and maybe some GRFs that are required for the patch (and not in trunk)
16:59:03  <Chrissicom> I only want to change the length of the days and implement the alt station patch from Mini IN in the 0.5.1 source that's all :)
16:59:18  <Chrissicom> so no GRFs required but I think there are additional strings in the language file
16:59:34  <Chrissicom> can I change the version numer in the source somehow actually?
16:59:59  <Rubidium> somewhere at the top of network.h or network.c
17:00:08  <Chrissicom> thx :)
17:01:02  <Wolf01> i'm going to add "invisible trees on ctrl+click on the transparent trees widget" to the transparency options
17:01:18  <Wolf01> anybody have something to say?
17:01:39  <Wolf01> (talk now or STFU forever) :P
17:02:18  <mikegrb> I finally got my old ttd cd out and got the data files yesterday
17:02:25  <mikegrb> I've been playing since then :<
17:02:27  <Chrissicom> that's nice Wolf01
17:02:30  <mikegrb> my boss will be mad
17:02:42  <Chrissicom> in the miniin you have the option to make only city or only trees invisible instead of everything
17:02:46  <Chrissicom> that's a very nice option
17:03:03  <Rubidium> Wolf01: maybe I'm not going to like it, maybe I am going to like it... ;) <- so now I don't have to keep quiet forever ;)
17:03:18  <Wolf01> grr :D
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17:11:01  <Thomas[NL]> Wolf01, what will be the difference with normal click on the widgit?
17:11:32  <Wolf01> normal: you toggle the transparency, CTRL: you toggle the invisibility
17:12:07  <Jezral> ...aren't those the same, in the long run?
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17:13:42  <Thomas[NL]> ah ok, I always use the Invisible trees patch option :)
17:16:20  <Osai> hello, we have some problems with depots and trains :/ when sending a train to depot we have an assertion
17:16:22  <Osai> openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-sandbox/src/vehicle.cpp:2936: void Vehicle::LeaveStation(): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP' failed.
17:16:48  <Osai> the strange thing: no ships in our game
17:16:56  <Osai> we use the latest nightly r9712
17:17:20  <Jezral> Looks like it should have been && instead of ||
17:17:38  <Osai> I'll change it, recompile and test
17:18:10  <peter1138> no, it's not
17:18:25  <peter1138> it's because a the engine of the train was sticking out of the station
17:18:37  <peter1138> -a
17:19:38  <Osai> can this be fixed easily?
17:20:01  <hylje> its been rather known for a while
17:20:09  <hylje> im doubting on oneliner fix
17:22:52  <Maedhros> what's the point of the assert anyway? the tile isn't used in that function at all
17:24:52  <Rubidium> Jezral: no, because vehicles that leave a station are either on the station tile (aircraft, road vehicles and trains) or are ships (ships are loading when on a water tile)
17:25:41  <peter1138> or not as the case sometimes is
17:27:04  <hylje> yes, when you flip a too long train around
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17:29:07  <dihedral> hello
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17:34:27  <dihedral> just got of the phone with kirk
17:34:34  <dihedral> prindel that is
17:34:41  <dihedral> *prindle
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17:35:06  <dihedral> he forwarded the email on, but has not heard anything himself yet
17:35:20  <dihedral> just thought i'd update you guys
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17:38:16  <Belugas> thanks dihedral
17:38:37  <Wolf01> uhm... now i got it to work by pressing CTRL after enabling transparent trees
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17:42:53  <dihedral> he also said he will ask for an answer himself, but was very careful not to give any comment whatsoever :-)
17:43:15  <Belugas> of course...
17:43:31  <Belugas> does not want to take any responsabilities
17:43:47  <Belugas> did he said anything about the content itself?
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17:44:24  <dihedral> well - he rememberd the topic very quickly
17:44:49  <Belugas> good :)
17:44:51  <dihedral> but only gave me the answer that he will ask the people he forwarded the mail to for a responce
17:45:49  <Belugas> since it's not an urgent issue, it would be best to let them do their internal work, i think
17:46:12  <dihedral> i was not going to bother him any further
17:46:25  <dihedral> just making sure that it has not been dropped
17:46:36  <dihedral> and stickes in the guys head
17:46:46  <Belugas> cool :)
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17:55:45  <Wolf01> can i mix click and keypress alltogether?
17:56:37  <Wolf01> i think i'm doing a lot of unnecessary work
17:57:07  <Wolf01> eheh
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18:06:01  <Wolf01> now i only need to draw something over a widget.. mission impossible :D
18:07:38  *** Phazorx [] has joined #openttd
18:07:50  <Phazorx> hola anybody home?
18:08:32  <Wolf01> yes, i'm at home
18:08:42  <Phazorx> that's good :)
18:09:19  <Phazorx> got a minor bug along with suggested fix, wonder if anyone can take a loook at the problem
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18:11:11  <Wolf01> boekabart, nice screenshots :D
18:11:28  <boekabart> thanks
18:12:02  <Wolf01> and very good patch
18:12:14  <Wolf01> i can't wait to play with it
18:12:21  <boekabart> you don't have to
18:12:23  <boekabart> wait
18:12:38  <boekabart> the diff is right there
18:12:49  <Wolf01> i know, but i wait for trunk :P
18:13:36  <boekabart> next thing I want to do (tomorrow i guess) is clean up the code. And I hope someone will make the waterfall gfx.
18:14:02  <Wolf01> yeah, waterfalls ... sloped water :D
18:14:32  <Wolf01> i think there is a lot of improvement to do, any suggestion?
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18:15:12  <boekabart> last thing i did but didn't publish was a small modification to the flooding algorithm, now waterfalls only flood downwards not sideways. Makes river-designing a bit easier
18:15:19  <Maedhros> Phazorx: what's the bug?
18:15:31  <Wolf01> good
18:15:47  <Phazorx> Maedhros: sending to depot loading train that is longer than station causes assertion at check if train is at station tile
18:15:57  <Phazorx> correction
18:16:09  <Phazorx> sending to depot REVERSED loading train that is longer than station
18:16:11  <Maedhros> oh, that
18:16:16  <Maedhros> yeah, we know that one
18:16:38  <Phazorx> i didnt find it at flyspray
18:16:45  <Phazorx> and i assume it isnt hard to fix
18:17:12  <Phazorx> since i hope trainlength and station size is know so disabling button will do the trick
18:17:50  <Maedhros> nah, it shouldn't assert in the first place
18:18:06  <Phazorx> well it is a logic problem
18:18:19  <Phazorx> check is valid
18:18:42  <Maedhros> no it isn't
18:18:47  <Phazorx> however separating train head beingh at station and loading flags might be a cleaner approach
18:18:57  <Maedhros> the assert happens because when it turns around the train is no longer in the station
18:19:39  <Phazorx> well... but that doesnt stop loading process and train is not moving
18:20:06  <Wolf01> so if i turn around a train which is loading it stops loading because it's not more in the station?
18:20:16  <Maedhros> no
18:20:30  <Maedhros> if the train is longer than the station it will assert when calling v->LeaveStation()
18:20:45  <Phazorx> it wont assert till it reversed
18:21:01  <Phazorx> since headpeice registers at MP_STATION tile
18:21:07  <Wolf01> oh, because the *engine* in not in the stations
18:21:08  <Phazorx> but after reversuing it's outisde
18:21:17  <Maedhros> exactly
18:21:32  <Phazorx> so my idea was make reversing impossibel if it is longer
18:21:58  <Phazorx> since i think the check is proper
18:22:15  <Phazorx> it should confirm that train is at station before leaving it
18:22:26  <Wolf01> the problem is not to make the reversing impossible, but telling a train that is in the station because it is still loading
18:22:31  <Phazorx> perhaps train at station criteria can be extended to
18:22:37  <Phazorx> either phisically or loading
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18:23:53  <Phazorx> Maedhros: should i file the bug btw?
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18:24:42  <Phazorx> Wolf01: making reversing impossible is probably easier to implement
18:24:55  <Phazorx> but i havent seen mich code, actually this is 1st time i looked at it
18:24:57  <Wolf01> but not the correct way
18:24:59  <Maedhros> it might be best to file a bug, so we don't lose track of it, year
18:25:02  <Maedhros> *yeah
18:25:09  <Phazorx> kk will do
18:25:23  <Phazorx> hoping that wont get exploited
18:25:32  <Wolf01> because if somebody has "reverse at stations" enable, it won't do anything
18:25:39  <Maedhros> and it's the check that's wrong; stopping trains reversing only avoids the problem rather than fixing it
18:26:20  <Sacro> ooh an exploit?
18:26:31  <Maedhros> no, just as assert
18:27:23  <Phazorx> well it can be used to crash any server on MP
18:27:45  <Maedhros> that's the risk you take with a nightly server ;)
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18:27:56  <Phazorx> Maedhros: i tihnk 5.1 has it too
18:28:00  <Phazorx> will check ina  few
18:30:11  <Maedhros> i've just checked, and it doesn't happen in 0.5.1
18:30:34  <Phazorx> that's good
18:34:21  <Phazorx> actually... will sprite limit wuill ever get increased in official release?
18:34:40  <Phazorx> cuz i'd like to play 5.1 but with DB and LV4
18:34:42  <peter1138> no, we're going to remove it from trunk
18:34:54  <Phazorx> remove spritelimit alltogether?
18:35:06  <peter1138> trunk already no sprite limit
18:35:13  <peter1138> well
18:35:16  <Phazorx> so how come 5.1 has it
18:35:18  <peter1138> technically it does
18:35:23  <peter1138> because 0.5.1 is not trunk
18:35:35  <Phazorx> so back to my question
18:35:44  <Phazorx> will official release have it remvoed soon ?
18:36:11  <peter1138> the next major release will have have trunk features, including the sprite limit changes
18:36:28  <Phazorx> is that like 0.6 ?
18:36:31  <Phazorx> or mroe like 5.2?
18:36:31  <peter1138> yes
18:36:33  <peter1138> no
18:36:36  <Phazorx> i see
18:36:37  <Phazorx> thanks
18:39:50  <Phazorx> well in mean time so i can patch the bug here
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18:40:29  <Phazorx> can i change this: assert(IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP);
18:40:39  <Phazorx> to something that checks loading as well ?
18:41:23  <Phazorx> like assert(IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP || current_order.type == OT_LOADING);
18:42:28  <Rubidium> then what if you reverse the train when unloading?
18:42:58  <Phazorx> i guess 2 criterias then :)
18:43:28  <Rubidium> yes, but in that case you can drop the first two, as the last two will always be true...
18:43:50  <Phazorx> why in the hell that check is even there
18:44:07  <Phazorx> however - train can be passing by through statioon as well
18:44:12  <Phazorx> not loading or unloading
18:44:32  <Rubidium> then it doesn't enter and leave the station
18:44:51  <Phazorx> even better
18:45:06  <Phazorx> so only check of loading/unloading makes sense
18:45:13  <Phazorx> what's the type for unloading then?
18:45:16  <Rubidium> it's added cause somebody thought that the assert would be usefull when refactoring some code. Apparantly the assert is bogus
18:45:19  <Phazorx> OT_UNLOADING?
18:45:49  <Phazorx> well it's a sanity check
18:45:49  <Wolf01> and what about stopping the train, so it isn't not anymore in the station, reverse it and then restart it all in one tick?
18:45:57  <Phazorx> train should not be elaving the stationunless it is there
18:46:08  <Phazorx> Wolf01: all good
18:46:14  <hylje> Wolf01: the train is not in a station and nothing special happens
18:46:20  <Phazorx> asserting codes is in void Vehicle::LeaveStation()
18:46:22  <Rubidium> ever thought about the fact that sanity checks aren't always sane?
18:46:32  <Rubidium> (sadly enough)
18:46:34  <hylje> :>
18:46:35  <Phazorx> Rubidium: kinda defeats the purpose then :)
18:47:13  <Wolf01> do you mean that if you remove the asset it works normally?
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18:47:19  <Wolf01> *assert
18:47:45  <peter1138> yes
18:48:16  <peter1138> OT_LOADING
18:48:24  <Phazorx> peter1138/Rubidium : what is the OT for unloading ?
18:48:47  <Rubidium> Phazorx: the problem is that there are about two dozen cases where this function is called; all under different circumstances.
18:48:50  <peter1138> none
18:49:00  <peter1138> it's OT_LOADING either way
18:49:34  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i have a feeling all of them are called when train should lave the station
18:49:44  <Phazorx> and quite possible that criteria is good enough
18:50:23  <Rubidium> Phazorx: and what 'flags' a train to be leaving a station?
18:50:57  <Rubidium> OT_LOADING could mean that it is still loading and shouldn't leave the station, so do the 'other' parts of the assert
18:50:57  <Phazorx> to be loading or unloading
18:51:26  <Phazorx> exactly so assert is emant to check if train is at station in a first place
18:51:33  <Phazorx> otherwise there is no need to leave
18:51:40  <Rubidium> precisely
18:51:50  <Rubidium> adding OT_LOADING doesn't tell whether you are at the station
18:51:51  <Phazorx> condition of being at station most likely match loading/unloading
18:52:04  <Phazorx> it's ot really adding
18:52:08  <Phazorx> code is there on next line
18:52:12  <peter1138> no need to add OT_LOADING, it's already there
18:52:22  <Phazorx> problem is with check before
18:52:37  <Phazorx> whcih checks engine phisical localtion
18:52:50  <peter1138> all the uses look valid
18:52:59  <peter1138> but that's assuming it's in the right place anyway, heh
18:53:00  <Rubidium> Phazorx: and that check is totally bogus as trains (engines) can apparantly be outside of the station when leaving the station
18:53:44  <Phazorx>
18:57:08  <peter1138> as i said (somewhere, i'm sure)
18:57:10  <peter1138> should just remove it
18:58:20  <boekabart> LOL I just had to PM sergej_s for something; what I did was write in english and used to translate it into Russian. So he'll know how we feel all the time ;)
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18:59:04  <Rubidium> boekabart: hope you did translate it first to spanish, then to german and then to russian ;)
18:59:26  <boekabart> rofl
18:59:49  <Rubidium> maybe add japanese and swahili too
19:00:05  <boekabart> google can DO that!?
19:00:15  <Rubidium> don't know
19:00:50  <Rubidium> but the worse the russian, the better you make your point... automatic translators suck as they do not understand any of the context needed to do proper translations
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19:01:51  <Thomas[NL]> can transparent water be made for non 32bpp openttd?
19:02:00  <boekabart> i think yes
19:02:12  <hylje> we still have non 32bpp ottd?
19:02:19  <peter1138> yes if you're brave
19:02:30  <boekabart> there exists transparent roofs, right
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19:03:03  <peter1138> you need a recolour map to make it blueish, instead of darker
19:03:04  <hylje> for non-32bpp i'd think blue seafloor would do it
19:03:06  <boekabart> the trick is to choose the right colors and set the palette for drawing to PAL_TRANPARENT
19:04:17  <boekabart> i know that PAL_TRANSPARENT for the sea-blue will just draw 'blue' (1 color blue)
19:05:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9714 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r8110): Remove invalid assertion triggered by overly long trains being reversed while loading.
19:05:27  <hylje> zomg!
19:05:46  <hylje> the bug description is priceless though :>
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19:35:34  <mikegrb> somewhere around year 2020 it stopped letting me build helicopters :<
19:35:43  <mikegrb> my heloports are useless!
19:35:51  <hylje> stop vehicles from expiring
19:35:56  <mikegrb> I built a couple of new ones and then went to build a chopper :<
19:35:56  <hylje> in patch opts
19:35:58  <mikegrb> oh?
19:35:59  <mikegrb> k
19:36:01  <mikegrb> thanks
19:36:05  <hylje> yw
19:36:11  <hylje> its a feature
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19:46:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9715 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
19:46:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-24 21:45:15
19:46:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
19:46:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 9 fixed by izhirahider (9)
19:46:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 3 fixed, 328 changed by HMage (331)
19:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 7 fixed by Fishingsnow (7)
19:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changed by xbddc (1)
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19:47:30  <mikegrb> yeah I can understand how it is intended, was just surprised
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19:59:52  <Phazorx> for these who use google for translating to russian - dont
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20:00:13  <Phazorx> if you want to know what it does - translate it back to where it came form, yes this is as bad as it looks
20:01:35  <Rubidium> Phazorx: we know Sergej_S and he does that all the time...
20:02:07  <Rubidium> and Sergej_S doesn't understand us nor do we understand him
20:02:20  <glx> at least he starts to use the translation fix advices :)
20:02:28  <Phazorx> well i know both russian and english, online translator applied to any technical text is not working
20:02:38  <Phazorx> use HMage or myself if you want to translate :)
20:03:40  * HMage is a brain-manipulated translation bot, private query with "hey b@#$h translate me this - blahblahblah" and the bot will translate that promptly (if not properly, though:)
20:04:08  <peter1138> TO ME
20:04:13  <peter1138> To MEEEEEE
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20:06:30  <HMage> I hope it was worthy fixing those 300+ lines
20:08:32  <Phazorx> HMage: are you still running your server?
20:08:36  <Phazorx> i wasnt able to connect ver
20:08:43  *** setrodox__ [] has joined #openttd
20:08:43  <HMage> it wasn't my server :)
20:08:55  *** Guest20 [] has joined #openttd
20:09:09  <Phazorx> well whatever it was where you invited me i never got there :)
20:09:45  *** Guest20 [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
20:11:02  <HMage> actually I guess it was for the best :) that server was a monumental failure :)
20:11:40  <HMage> I immediatedly started building in ottdcoop-style, which was quite a bit too much for russian users.
20:12:14  <HMage> "two lanes? wtf do we need this?", "why do we need 3-tile long trains if we can take all cargo with 10-tile one?", etc
20:12:41  <Phazorx> well :)
20:12:45  <Phazorx> coop is different style
20:13:00  <Phazorx> btw check this
20:13:03  <peter1138> h,,
20:13:24  <Phazorx> i got 550 train on single 900 tile lane
20:13:24  <HMage> Phazorx: yup, i've read that.
20:13:35  <Phazorx> model works pretty good
20:14:06  <HMage> -- read from first post to last. :)
20:14:45  <Phazorx> okay will do that
20:14:58  <Phazorx> Alver != HMage ?
20:15:10  <HMage> that's true
20:15:20  <HMage> I'm HMage there
20:16:19  *** setrodox_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16:20  <Phazorx> is alver keen on dooing it coop style tho ?
20:16:43  <HMage> yup, but he doesn't have any time
20:17:02  <Phazorx> for playing or setting it up?
20:17:34  <HMage> both
20:17:38  <HMage> read on
20:17:43  <Phazorx> okay sorry :)
20:22:41  <dihedral> night ladies
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20:46:52  <Belugas> bye bye
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22:34:49  <TheJosh> Hey how does networking work in openttd?
22:38:18  <Sacro_> TheJosh: black magic
22:38:33  <Sacro_> PBIMOTTD XD
22:38:59  <TheJosh> is it going to get a rewrite oneday (out of interest)?
22:39:21  <Sacro_> not that i know of
22:39:44  <Rubidium> why does it need a rewrite?
22:40:34  <TheJosh> i assumed when Sacro said black magic he meant it was just holding together
22:40:46  <TheJosh> must a misinterpriation, my bad
22:41:27  <Rubidium> Sacro_ isn't a developer...
22:41:42  <Rubidium> and I wonder whether he actually knows how the network protocol works
22:41:46  <TheJosh> Oh ok sorry.
22:41:59  <TheJosh> I have not been doing this long, sorry I dont know much
22:42:17  <Sacro_> Rubidium: :o what about "Sacros daylength patch"
22:43:53  <Rubidium> should I laugh?
22:44:05  <Sacro_> :o
22:44:16  <Sacro_> it was the best 3 line patch i've seen yet
22:44:19  <Rubidium> replacing every daylength constant you find in the code with something to make daylength configurable
22:45:02  <Sacro_> originally it was just going to affect the #define
22:45:02  <Rubidium> very useful if you want to make the chat messages stay like 32 times longer..., but not what should happen
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22:45:56  <ln-> TheJosh: the networking has already been rewritten.
22:46:22  <Rubidium> the real question is, what about the network do you want to know?
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22:50:19  <Wolf01> [00:42:22] <Sacro_> Rubidium: :o what about "Sacros daylength patch" <- lol :D
22:51:17  <Wolf01> U_U i just updated to ubuntu F and the ethernet interface doesn't work
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22:52:31  <TheJosh> I want to be able to so something on one computer and have it show up on another...currently it desyncs
22:53:32  <TheJosh> its going through DoCommandP, but it still decyncs
22:53:36  <TheJosh> it is code for fund a town
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22:55:58  <Rubidium> before a command is send over the network it is ran once with DC_EXEC unset in flags
22:56:39  <Rubidium> later it is ran again with DC_EXEC set in flags on all clients; the one with DC_EXEC unset is only on the sending client
22:57:14  <Rubidium> as the Random must be the same for all clients (that's the way the network algorithm can be as efficient as it is now), you cannot call Random when DC_EXEC is unset
22:58:33  <TheJosh> Ok now you have lost me, sorry.
22:59:30  <Rubidium> what don't you understand?
23:00:24  <Rubidium> it's (fairly) simple, the 'command' is ran once before sending it to the server to test whether it is actually allowed. In that 'test'-phase you cannot call Random.
23:01:11  <Rubidium> later, once the server has received the command and send it to all clients, all client execute the command and then they may call Random (as the command is then executed at all clients at the same time)
23:01:55  <Rubidium> this because Random must be the same for all clients, due to the network protocol
23:02:17  <Rubidium> (or rather, the whole gamestate must be the same for all clients)
23:03:21  <TheJosh> so my CmdBuildTown is called with a flag set, and when that flag is set, i cant do anything that uses random
23:03:45  <Rubidium> basically yes
23:04:21  <Rubidium> though you may only call random when DC_EXEC is set and you may *not* use random when DC_EXEC is *not* set
23:04:35  <TheJosh> alright
23:04:36  <TheJosh> thanks
23:05:04  <Rubidium> basically the problem is CreateTownName
23:05:23  <Rubidium> but...
23:06:02  <TheJosh> yes
23:06:58  <Rubidium> the function may not give errors when the DC_EXEC flag is set, thus you must use some method to make sure you can make a town name
23:07:38  <TheJosh> the code has this line
23:07:41  <TheJosh> 	if (flags & DC_EXEC) {
23:07:49  <TheJosh> DoCreateTown(t, tile, townnameparts, (TownSizeMode)p2, p1);
23:07:52  <TheJosh> }
23:08:06  <Rubidium> without the use of Random, that makes it impossible that CreateTownName gives an error when DC_EXEC is set
23:08:36  <TheJosh> DoCreateTown does not return any errors though
23:09:38  <Rubidium> no, but CreateTownName does when it cannot find a town name
23:10:45  <Rubidium> so what you should do is pass the townnameparts into the command and generate those townnameparts before doing the DoCommandP and check in the CmdBuildTown whether the townnameparts give a unique town name
23:11:26  <TheJosh> ok
23:11:28  <Rubidium> (you can use InteractiveRandom if the code isn't called from a command)
23:13:56  <TheJosh> I told it to just not execute the generate name on test, and the network is fine now
23:14:20  <Rubidium> until you run out of town names and all clients crash
23:14:51  <TheJosh> can i just check the number of town names is valid, without using random?
23:15:15  <TheJosh> and check that on the test call ?
23:15:26  <glx> it depends on the townname language
23:15:38  <glx> some have more available names than others
23:15:55  <glx> but I don't know if there's a way to know how many
23:16:11  <Rubidium> there is one
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23:16:38  <Rubidium> just pass every value from 0..2^32-1 into the namegen function
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23:17:08  <TheJosh> 2^32 - 1? that is a big number
23:17:13  <glx> and count all the non-duplicate?
23:17:29  <Rubidium> yup (for both)
23:17:47  <TheJosh> a function like that could take quite a while
23:18:19  <Rubidium> therefor you shouldn't do that
23:20:09  <TheJosh> i will do what Rubidium suggested earlier
23:20:45  <TheJosh> thanks for all your help
23:20:54  <TheJosh> im off now, things to do, people to see
23:20:54  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:21:00  <TheJosh> thanks for all your help
23:21:03  *** TheJosh [] has quit [Quit: thanks]
23:22:12  <Rubidium> he should be happy that CmdBuildTown exists :)
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23:31:56  <ln-> 2^32-1 isn't that much when one can use a computer.
23:33:22  <ln-> even if all of those names (including duplicates) were saved in a file, it would take only roughly 40 GB.
23:37:37  <ln-> considering that the number of possible names is small, it can be kept in memory and duplicates dropped immediately.
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23:47:08  <Wolf01> 'night
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