Log for #openttd on 3rd May 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:07  <Sionide> Your 'openttd.grf' file is corrupted or missing!
00:00:07  <Sionide> openttd: /home/sionide/games/openttd/svn/src/gfxinit.cpp:92: void LoadGrfIndexed(const char*, const SpriteID*, int): Assertion `b' failed.
00:00:07  <Sionide> Aborted (core dumped)
00:00:49  <Sionide> it's in the /data/ dir
00:00:51  <Sionide> :s
00:01:55  <Sionide> bleh
00:03:16  <Sionide> ..wahooo i'm there!
00:04:45  <glx> bin/data
00:05:09  <Sionide> yeah yeah
00:05:10  <Sionide> figured it out
00:05:14  <Sionide> was missing stuff like elrails
00:07:11  <Sionide> sweet! it's working :D
00:07:41  <glx> it's very easy with linux ;)
00:07:52  <Sionide> the music has just totally screwed up
00:08:11  <glx> with bin/gm ?
00:08:33  <Sionide> err maybe not music
00:08:38  <Sionide> i'm hearing very weird things
00:09:34  <glx> sound and linux : always funny :)
00:09:41  <Sionide> yeah, don't i know it..
00:09:56  <glx> I remember having hard time to configure sound on my old dell
00:10:27  <Sionide> ARGH
00:10:29  <Sionide> i'm stupid
00:10:33  <Sionide> it was rhythmbox
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00:21:50  <Sionide> this is cooool
00:21:57  * Sionide makes a massive map full of just towns
00:24:20  <Patrick> passenger destinations?
00:24:26  <Patrick> ooh, ooh, is "very low" density there
00:24:37  <Patrick> some of that was my idea :D
00:24:45  <Patrick> and that's my claim to fame
00:26:39  <Sionide> umm
00:26:42  <Sionide> it's disappeared
00:26:46  <Sionide> is it only for buses?
00:26:49  <Sionide> i'm confused...
00:27:12  <Patrick> sorry, I was being completely irrelevant
00:27:16  <Patrick> ignore what I said
00:27:24  <Sionide> does it not work for trains yet??
00:28:08  <Sionide> oh shit
00:28:12  <Sionide> probably not enabled it
00:28:13  <Sionide> duh
00:28:19  <Patrick> :P
00:32:39  <Sionide> urgh i've forgotton all my network building skillzzzzz
00:32:44  <Sionide> it's been ages since i've played properly
00:47:05  <rane> i encountered signal related bug in r9769, anyone know if it has been reported?
00:49:00  <Sacro> signals?
00:49:47  <Patrick> I found some bugs in the autosignals patch but ... meh
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03:36:56  <DaleStan> rane: I'm afraid my crystal ball can't even figure out what bug you've discovered, much less whether or not it's already been reported.
03:37:00  <DaleStan> rane: If it's on, it's been reported. If not, it hasn't.
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07:57:41  <Wolf01> hello
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08:09:24  <Wolf01> horrible vision...
08:11:55  <peter1138> hmm?
08:12:33  <Wolf01> those aquaducts...
08:12:51  <peter1138> shame about the glitches
08:14:06  <Wolf01> they have no deepth, used without criteria, glitches
08:14:27  <peter1138> all bridges are a visual hack anyway
08:14:32  <peter1138> and tunnel entrances
08:14:57  <Wolf01> yeah, but they (aquaducts) are the most evident
08:15:46  <peter1138> just imagine the aqueduct has a curved bottom
08:16:56  <Wolf01> brr build over tunnel entrances without basetunnels
08:17:43  <Wolf01> yes, but aquaducts, and all other bridges, should be built 2 levels over the terrain IF there is something under
08:18:03  <peter1138> yes, and like all other bridges that restriction doesn't exist yet
08:19:42  <Wolf01> i know that something was tried with the first version of the magic bridges patch, where you were able to build a bridge over a bridge but if under there was not a pillar or you had to find an higher point
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08:26:47  <peter1138> first version?
08:28:20  <Wolf01> i have it
08:28:48  <peter1138> the first version is ancient and was abandonned
08:28:57  <peter1138> the second version is what we've got
08:29:08  <Wolf01> r5148
08:30:09  <peter1138> - Fix: [YAPF] RVs can now find depot they are currently in (thanks Darkvater)
08:30:10  <peter1138> ?
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08:30:30  <Wolf01> its around it, it was removed soon
08:30:47  <peter1138> it was merged once, reverted, and then merged again
08:30:49  <peter1138> that's the second version
08:30:53  <peter1138> all of it
08:32:28  <Wolf01> i remember in that version you were able to build bridges over stations (single track only, but you were able to place stations under bridges) and over bridges
08:33:11  <peter1138> yes, that stuff was fixed
08:34:57  <EdwardTLS> hi you all
08:35:10  <Wolf01> hi
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09:53:14  <SpComb> Logs:
09:53:14  <HMage> !logs
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10:45:00  <rane> DaleStan: i figured "signal related" would be enough of a detail
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10:59:50  <peter1138> usually signal bugs are just 'non-expected' behaviour
11:02:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9772 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [r9770,FS#761]: under some circumstances loading/unloading didn't work (correctly).
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11:13:39  <peter1138> rane, so something more specific, perhaps...
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12:07:27  <maddy> Brianetta: you're here?
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12:23:23  <Brianetta> maddy: I am here
12:27:18  <maddy> can you reset the game (once more) pls :D
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12:31:23  <RobertGrammig> Ive got a town with 90% passenger and mail coverage and big good supply but it just wont grow... what possible reasons are there?
12:31:46  <RobertGrammig> each time I make the commercial building funding town size rises for some time but then drops again
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12:36:29  <maddy> Brianetta: still there?
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12:42:55  <Patrick> have you got buses driving circles in the town?
12:43:03  <Patrick> or is that the coverage thing
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12:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> RobertGrammig: towns in snow need food, and towns in desert need food and water
12:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> and if you play the nightly, check the patch setting for town growth, it might be set to "none"
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13:08:22  <Brianetta> maddy: Still here.
13:09:08  <maddy> Brianetta: can you reset the game please?
13:09:20  <Brianetta> I need a little more info than that
13:11:02  <maddy> lol
13:11:12  <maddy> Brianetta's standard
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13:36:01  <maddy> Brianetta: the server is still starting up?
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15:55:10  <elmex> is there any official openttd game server?
15:55:30  <TrueBrain> nope
15:55:36  <Phazorx>
15:55:55  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the question is ambiguous
15:56:00  <TrueBrain> that is just the listing of the servers :)
15:56:08  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it sure is, so I answer with the easiest reply ;)
15:56:38  <Phazorx> DEBUG(net, 0, "Trying to execute a packet in the past!");
15:56:40  <Rubidium> <- *_dedicated are 'official' openttd servers ;)
15:57:06  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: even worse: any server online is most likely an 'official' openttd game server :p
15:57:12  <Phazorx> network.cpp 1201 9769
15:57:14  <TrueBrain> besides the one with a M of course :)
15:57:28  <Phazorx> dont see anything in the logn for that being fixed
15:57:55  <TrueBrain> it doesn't happen often that we fix things that are there to prevent errors
15:59:28  <Rubidium> Phazorx: did a game of you trigger that debug message?
15:59:42  <Phazorx> Rubidium: assert after that
15:59:50  <Phazorx> we have major desync at coopers server
15:59:57  <Phazorx> with 73 and 76
16:00:04  <Phazorx> updating to 79 now
16:00:14  <Phazorx> but i dont see anything in logs affecting entwork
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16:00:29  <TrueBrain> when you see that debug line, something is pretty wrong
16:00:31  <Rubidium> 73, 76 and 79?
16:00:44  <peter1138> old revisions :)
16:00:55  <TrueBrain> no wonder it fails :p
16:01:55  <Rubidium> but where do the 73, 76 and 79 come from?
16:02:19  <Rubidium> as it cannot be 9773, 9776 etc.
16:04:26  <elmex> hm, sometimes big parts of the langscape change height randomly, is that the AI that tries something?
16:04:44  <TrueBrain> elmex: most likely
16:06:57  <glx> AI doesn't pay for landscaping
16:07:24  * peter1138 idly wonders what revision AI landscaping got broken...
16:07:39  <peter1138> or maybe i'm wrong in remembering it not doing that...
16:07:58  * Rubidium guesses since TGP
16:08:05  <TrueBrain> nah, it always was 'broken'
16:08:10  <TrueBrain> randomly changing landscape massive
16:08:17  <glx> but TGP is worse for AI
16:08:31  <TrueBrain> that is true
16:10:01  <elmex> i;ve once killed the station of an AI that was in progress of building a track from it by buying up land that was freed from his track when backtracking
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16:15:11  <Phazorx> Rubidium: it is 9773 9776 abd 9779
16:15:27  <Phazorx> which are pretty recent
16:15:35  <Phazorx> and i dont see entwork code changes inbetween
16:17:31  <Phazorx> 70still desyncs :/
16:17:35  <Phazorx> 79
16:19:49  <Rubidium> how can 9779, 9776 or 9773 desync?
16:20:20  <Phazorx> apparently very easy
16:20:27  <Phazorx> server just been restarted with 79
16:20:28  <Rubidium> we're only at 9772...
16:20:33  <Phazorx> and we got players dropping already
16:20:45  <Phazorx> ooops
16:20:55  <Phazorx> make these 7s - 6s
16:21:01  <Phazorx> 9769
16:21:04  <Phazorx> 66 63
16:21:16  <Rubidium> when did the desyncs happen?
16:21:25  <Rubidium> *start to happen
16:23:32  <eJoJ> 9734 was the first one I noticed it in
16:25:22  <Phazorx> Rubidium: hard to say
16:25:45  <eJoJ> Phazorx: did it not start in the chaos game?
16:26:17  <Rubidium> is only a subset of users desyncing?
16:26:35  <eJoJ> becouse i did not see anything of it in 9712 wich was the one we used before that
16:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Phazorx> and i dont see entwork code changes inbetween <- desyncs are extremely rarely caused by the network code, usually they are signs of inconsistencies in the game code
16:28:33  <Rubidium> how easily is it reproducable?
16:28:39  <TrueBrain> if we are talking about the error above, it most likely is one client who is fucking things up
16:28:47  <Rubidium> or rather, can you make it reproducable?
16:30:08  <Phazorx> well one of players still cant join
16:30:22  <Phazorx> if i may ask - some of you try to get to coop sandbox?
16:30:27  <Rubidium> he desyncs immediatelly?
16:30:29  <Phazorx> it runs 69 now
16:30:43  <Phazorx> well if it desyncs - play can not join for a while normally
16:30:55  <Phazorx> i got dropped and then desynced 4 times after that
16:31:02  <Phazorx> when we upgraded
16:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you desync repeatedly right after load, it indicates, that someting is not saved correctly
16:31:48  <Rubidium> what we need to make it anywhere debuggable is a server savegame that you load in the server which desyncs when the client joins (within a few game days/weeks)
16:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> a workaround in that case would be, to save the server game, and restart the server
16:32:47  <TrueBrain> let's start with the basics: are you running a clean checkout?
16:33:02  <elmex> is there a way to see the value ofthe loaded cargo of something? eg. when i have a train with 10 coal trucks i would love an estimation of the income it will bring me
16:33:16  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: define saved ?
16:33:26  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: we did save upgrade and restart
16:33:39  <Phazorx> at least of players got desynced at 1st join after that
16:33:40  <Rubidium> elmex: that depends on the distances and the time taken to get the cargo there
16:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if that does not help, the problem is deeper than that...
16:34:31  <elmex> Rubidium: hmm, thats right. but isn't the distance defined by the distance to the station to bring the cargo to? and the time could be 'now'
16:34:34  <Phazorx> and same game goes on for a while
16:34:43  <Phazorx> it was desyncing during previos one as well
16:34:45  <Phazorx> a week ago
16:34:57  <Phazorx> less aggressive than on 66 tho
16:34:59  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: are you running a clean checkout? (e.g.: no patches)
16:35:37  <Phazorx> 2 players desync now all time
16:35:44  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: AFAIK - yes
16:35:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> the next step would be to go backwards in revisions, to check, which revision caused the desyncs
16:35:50  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: make sure please
16:35:52  <TrueBrain> (svn diff)
16:36:11  <Phazorx> asking person who updated 1 sek
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16:36:57  <Phazorx> <MUcht> svn up -r
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16:37:32  <TrueBrain> either 'svn diff' or 'svn status'
16:37:48  <hylje> hylje@fishtank:~/Projects/ottd/coop$ svn diff
16:37:48  <hylje> hylje@fishtank:~/Projects/ottd/coop$
16:37:54  <TrueBrain> good
16:38:56  <TrueBrain> does it happen with a new game?
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16:40:17  <hylje> hard to test
16:40:23  <TrueBrain> why?
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16:40:31  <hylje> need to set up another server, etc
16:40:38  <hylje> me, im behind nat
16:40:38  <TrueBrain> just run: 'save'
16:40:40  <TrueBrain> 'newgame'
16:40:41  <TrueBrain> :p
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16:40:51  <hylje> peoples playing thar
16:40:57  <hylje> don't probably approve
16:41:00  <TrueBrain> but it is desyncing ;)
16:41:41  <TrueBrain> so not everyone desyncs?
16:41:44  <hylje> yes
16:41:46  <TrueBrain> Which OSes do desync, which don't?
16:41:47  <hylje> just me and some others
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16:41:53  <hylje> i'm guessing linux desyncs
16:42:03  <TrueBrain> please do not guess
16:42:15  <hylje> at least i didnt give that as a fact
16:42:27  <TrueBrain> I ment to say: please do ask to who ever desyncs which OS they are running
16:42:39  <TrueBrain> (and more, if it is PPC or i?68 :))
16:42:44  <hylje> yes
16:43:09  <Phazorx> win32 - desyncs
16:43:14  <eJoJ> Windows desyncs as well
16:43:37  <eJoJ> win32 as Phazorx say is the one i use
16:44:28  <Phazorx> testing with osx now
16:44:28  <TrueBrain> also with this version:
16:44:42  <Phazorx> hylje: runs linux
16:44:50  <Phazorx> the link you have - is what i wgeted
16:44:55  <TrueBrain> good
16:45:22  <Phazorx> <sandbox> hylje has joined the game
16:45:22  <Phazorx> <sandbox> hylje has left the game (desync error)
16:45:36  <Phazorx> that's linux compile
16:45:45  <TrueBrain> so, it is a real desync ;)
16:45:51  <hylje> im setting up a precompiled atm
16:47:42  <antichaos> hi, VC is complaining about having to force into to bool in 'bool ful_load = front_v->current_order.flags & OF_FULL_LOAD'
16:48:02  <antichaos> would it be correct to use 'bool full_load = HASBIT(front_v->current_order.flags, OFB_FULL_LOAD);' instead?
16:48:05  <glx> antichaos: which rev?
16:48:31  <antichaos> 9772 - latest svn
16:48:53  <antichaos> 759 of vehicle.cpp
16:48:57  <hylje> precompiled seems to work this far
16:48:59  <glx> ok trying to compile
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16:49:42  <hylje> pof
16:49:54  <Phazorx> were you spectating ?
16:50:25  <Phazorx> okay hylje was spectating and got droped as well using binary
16:52:05  <elmex> Rubidium: wouldn't it be enough to display GetTransportedGoodsIncome with the cargo of the train and the station it brings the cargo to (of course only accepted cargo)?
16:53:06  <TrueBrain> I hate newgrf, did I ever told you guys that?
16:53:53  <hylje> i recall yes
16:53:56  <TrueBrain> :)
16:56:28  <Osai> TrueBrain: it might be an endian problem imho
16:56:38  <Osai> because at the beginning I saved the game
16:56:41  <TrueBrain> Osai: only if the server is ppc
16:57:05  <Osai> then I downloaded it to my local machine which is ppc
16:57:10  <TrueBrain> Osai: which I doubt :) The reason I asked for the OSes which desynced :)
16:58:05  <antichaos> while the devs are changing the cargo delivery code, would there be any interest in a rewrite of DeliverGoodsToIndustry which does cargo distribution within station catchement area?
16:58:19  <Osai> activated total town replacement in sp (on my mac 10.4.9+ppc G4) and  uploaded it again
16:58:36  <Osai> I think that could cause those problems
16:58:41  <Osai> but I am not sure
16:58:43  <Phazorx> Osai: still have orignal save ?
16:58:47  <Osai> yes
16:58:49  <TrueBrain> Osai: it in fact shouldn't, but of course it is possible
16:58:51  <Phazorx> can you diff em
16:59:09  <Osai> diff with what?
16:59:16  <Phazorx> before and after change
16:59:26  <Phazorx> aside of tgf setting nothing else should be different
16:59:38  <Osai> sec
17:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> diff savegames? sounds like an awful idea :p
17:01:41  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: it's a save game with no game changes in it
17:01:46  <Phazorx> only settings
17:01:53  <Phazorx> which i hope will be confirmed
17:02:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but savegames are compressed
17:02:07  <Phazorx> ogh
17:02:07  <TrueBrain> and binary
17:02:10  <Belugas> antichaos, do you have a patch for that rewrite of DeliverGoodsToIndustry?  Or do you plan for that?  Or do you just ask for that feature?
17:02:10  <Phazorx> didnt know that
17:02:18  <Phazorx> binary or not settings wont matter
17:02:25  <Phazorx> but compressed is an issue
17:02:46  <TrueBrain> you can uncompress :p But it is an impossible job
17:03:04  <Phazorx> can and impossible in same sentence...
17:03:06  <antichaos> I have a patch that I wrote for industry budgets.  But I can do a standalone version
17:04:13  <Belugas> antichaos, please do.  I would like to see that :)
17:04:20  <antichaos> But I'm not sure I'm tracking the list of industries near each station in a sensible way
17:04:55  <Osai> we could load the save before I did this change
17:05:04  <TrueBrain> give it a spin
17:05:08  <Osai> its an empty game
17:05:12  <TrueBrain> and please do send me the savegame
17:05:19  <Osai> dcc, mail?
17:05:21  <TrueBrain> (both, if possible)
17:05:22  <TrueBrain> http?
17:05:27  <Osai> kk
17:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> catchment area is a rectangle, right? so you only have to go through the industry list, and calculate distance (maximum-norm)
17:05:31  <Osai> those old ones?
17:06:12  <TrueBrain> one you got before your changes, one after your changes, and try the one before your changes, and see what happens :)
17:08:11  *** Cipri [] has joined #openttd
17:08:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r9773 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix r9772: MSVC warning
17:08:27  <Phazorx> Cipri: were you desyncing as well on SB?
17:10:12  <Osai> TrueBrain:
17:10:21  <Osai>
17:10:32  <TrueBrain> 403
17:10:49  <Phazorx> .sav proully not in white list
17:11:10  <Osai> fix
17:11:11  <Osai> ed
17:11:26  <Osai> stupid ftp :D
17:11:33  <Phazorx> ftp?
17:11:38  <Osai> s/ftp/sftp
17:11:41  <Phazorx> permissions?
17:11:54  <Osai> well I did the upload via sftp
17:20:18  *** Cipri [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21:10  <TrueBrain> Osai: did you load up the _before?
17:21:25  <Osai> yes
17:21:29  <TrueBrain> did it help?
17:21:37  <Phazorx> we loaded last game so far
17:21:42  <Phazorx> 10 days ago
17:21:43  <Osai> everyone was able to join
17:21:47  <Phazorx> which hylje wasnt able to join
17:21:58  <Phazorx> now he's in w/o GRF change
17:22:18  <TrueBrain> let me know when it desyncs again (if ever)
17:24:10  <Osai> I feel like TTRS is doing the problems
17:24:42  <Osai> actually hylje was able to join the after game (with TTRS)
17:25:39  <Osai> I dunno whether growing cities with more TTRS buildings have an influence on that :(
17:27:07  <hylje> lets just have a ttrs-less game next time
17:27:18  <Osai> yep
17:28:55  <Belugas> i doubt ttrs would cause it, since newhouses was introduced a "long" time ago
17:29:08  <Belugas> or is it the first time you've tried to play with it?
17:29:09  <TrueBrain> Belugas: means it was just hiding all the time ;)
17:29:18  *** acerbus [] has joined #openttd
17:29:32  <Osai> no we played with it before
17:29:37  <Osai> and it worked
17:29:51  <TrueBrain> you guys really have too many grfs :p
17:29:54  <Belugas> so, it must be something else...
17:30:13  <TrueBrain> Belugas: once there was a bug in newgrf handling that only surfaced with certain buildings and combinations of
17:30:14  <Belugas> TrueBrain, grfs are fun :)
17:30:18  <TrueBrain> so it still isn't conclusive :)
17:30:33  <Belugas> could be
17:30:52  <Belugas> ok... "so, it may be something else" :P
17:31:07  <TrueBrain> it can be almost anything :)
17:31:24  *** Cipri [] has joined #openttd
17:31:40  <Belugas> anyway, resuming work@work
17:31:45  <TrueBrain> good luck Belugas :)
17:32:07  <Phazorx> grrrr
17:32:11  <Rubidium> most likely candidates are r9712 till r9734
17:32:11  <Phazorx> <sandbox> Phazorx has joined the game
17:32:11  <Phazorx> <sandbox> Phazorx has left the game (desync error)
17:32:18  <Phazorx> that was instant on paused game
17:32:22  <Cipri> Phazorx: Yeah, me too.
17:32:37  <Phazorx> as soon as we loaded last save
17:32:38  <TrueBrain> what did the server say?
17:32:46  <Phazorx> that's what server said
17:32:54  <TrueBrain> server console
17:33:10  <Rubidium> it desyncs when the server is paused?
17:33:11  <Phazorx> asking someone to look at it... hang on
17:33:25  <Osai> console said nothing else
17:33:26  <Phazorx> Rubidium: usualy it was desyncing when it wasnt
17:33:37  <TrueBrain> desync check doesn't run when game is in pause :)
17:34:00  <TrueBrain> Osai: which game was that? the _before one?
17:34:04  <Phazorx> makes even less sense now
17:34:07  <Osai> nope
17:34:13  <TrueBrain> Osai: then which?
17:34:16  <Osai> TrueBrain: I loaded the actual game
17:34:22  <TrueBrain> 'actual game'?
17:34:27  <Phazorx> last one we savede
17:34:33  <Phazorx> rather than one osai experimented with
17:34:51  <TrueBrain> wasn't the _before the one Osai didn't experiment with?
17:35:10  <Rubidium> Osai: can you turn on autosave at 1 month for the server, then run the server till the first client desyncs and give us the last 3 savegames and the day the client joined?
17:35:42  <Osai> would be possible
17:36:11  <TrueBrain> how many clients were there? And were they there from the start, or did the desync client join later?
17:37:00  <Rubidium> hmm, even better, give us the savegame of the last client that joined and didn't desync :)
17:37:18  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you do know what you ask them ;)
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17:37:40  <Cipri> This still the lots-of-water game?
17:37:42  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yes, running Brianetta server thingy
17:37:50  <Cipri> 'cause there is one odd thing in that game. Those stepped-stations.
17:38:36  <TrueBrain> but I wonder if the clients that desync are the ones that join, and if a client that doesn't desync leaves, he can rejoin or not?
17:38:42  <Phazorx> so... whats the action plan - jon one player, unpause
17:38:48  <Phazorx> turn on sautosaves
17:38:57  <Phazorx> join one by one
17:39:05  <Phazorx> and present saves when desyncs?
17:39:20  <Cipri> I blame those stations...
17:39:22  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: can any client _join_ without being desynced? (so not a client that is already in-game)
17:39:37  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: some can some can not
17:39:40  <Phazorx> osai has least problems
17:39:43  <Phazorx> hylje: most
17:39:50  <TrueBrain> but is there any client who doesn't hav eproblems when he rejoins?
17:39:53  * Cipri can't join either.
17:39:56  <Phazorx> rest (5-6 players) get dropped at random
17:40:14  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: last time it worked - i rejoined 4 times
17:40:21  <TrueBrain> and does a client get dropped which joined from the beginning?
17:40:24  <Phazorx> after that it was okay for a while
17:40:28  <Phazorx> then got desynced again
17:40:44  <Cipri> Hey cool, I managed to join this time.
17:40:45  <Phazorx> i tihnk there is less chances of that happeneing
17:41:02  <TrueBrain> I am not asking about chances, and this is pretty important
17:41:13  <TrueBrain> if a client joins right after the server started, does he ever desync?
17:41:14  <Rubidium> Phazorx: basically as much savegames you can get your hand on made by the server, so we might reproduce it
17:41:35  <Phazorx> okay
17:41:44  <Osai> yes
17:42:25  <TrueBrain> Osai: yes to what? :)
17:42:39  <Rubidium> because reproducing it is the most important step; no way to reproduce means that we have to 'guess' which isn't really usefull in thousands (if not millions) lines of code
17:42:46  <Phazorx> i asked him a Q in other channel :)
17:43:02  <TrueBrain> What Rubidium says :)
17:43:11  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: what I try to picture is the timeline of desyncs
17:43:17  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i know that
17:43:20  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: like there is a BIG difference between all clients desyncing at the same time
17:43:24  <TrueBrain> or a new client joining desyncing
17:43:29  <TrueBrain> or clients that are ingame for a long time, desyncing
17:43:45  <Phazorx> all at same time - almost enver happened
17:43:48  <Phazorx> i seen that once
17:43:52  <Phazorx> on join - often
17:43:57  <TrueBrain> I seen it thouasand of times but we are talking about THIS case
17:43:57  <Phazorx> and only one who is joining
17:44:11  <Cipri> People always get desynched right after they join.
17:44:12  <Phazorx> after a while, no join no leaves same number of plasyers - sometimes
17:44:15  <Cipri> But once you're in, you're fine.
17:44:22  <Phazorx> Cipri: not correct
17:44:30  <Phazorx> i got dropped after an hour last time
17:44:32  <hylje> i get delayed desyncs :p
17:44:38  <Phazorx> and no one joined at same time
17:44:45  <Cipri> Oh. Sorry. I always got/saw instant-desynch's
17:44:57  <Rubidium> hylje: what is delayed?
17:45:03  <Rubidium> how much time?
17:45:12  <hylje> it appears random
17:45:26  <hylje> but some time after join when doing something it suddenly desyncs
17:45:27  <TrueBrain> hylje: in game-days, between which range?
17:45:27  <Rubidium> is it after 2 minutes or after 2 hours?
17:45:36  <hylje> minutes
17:45:56  <Rubidium> probably still the same cause (only better hidden)
17:45:57  <Osai> sorry I can't join this game anymore, my laptop is not able to handle the 500 trains
17:46:01  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it smells like some data not saved and not used often
17:46:06  <TrueBrain> or wrongly recalculated
17:46:22  <Osai> I keep loosing the connection
17:46:24  <Phazorx> i got client crash one time at desync
17:46:38  <Phazorx> at line i posted when i came here
17:46:49  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: most likely irrelevant
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17:47:06  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: it says sometihng that made sense
17:47:08  <Phazorx> but possible
17:47:22  <Rubidium> peter1138: are there GRFs that have some internal state that they use for callbacks etc? (i.e. is it possible to have that?)
17:47:25  <Zuu> Rubidium: Last time I counted I count to 50 000 lines of code, but that was probably without sub directories of ./src/ :)
17:47:35  <TrueBrain> what is said was that you received a package to handle on a timestamp that was passed the current timestamp. Doesn't really make sense after a desync
17:47:36  <Zuu> hmm, silly backlog :/
17:47:59  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: it was pretty much during rather than after
17:48:10  <TrueBrain> Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC)                = 121,923
17:48:11  <Phazorx> but it's just a guess
17:48:14  <TrueBrain> Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 31.00 (372.05)
17:48:19  <TrueBrain>  (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05))
17:48:19  <Phazorx> i hear you
17:48:23  <TrueBrain> Schedule Estimate, Years (Months)                         = 1.98 (23.70)
17:48:27  <TrueBrain>  (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38))
17:48:31  <TrueBrain> Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule)  = 15.70
17:48:33  <Rubidium> and SLOC is WITHOUT documentation and/or whitelines!
17:48:35  <TrueBrain> Total Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 4,188,240
17:48:39  <TrueBrain>  (average salary = ,286/year, overhead = 2.40).
17:48:40  <Phazorx> lol
17:48:49  <TrueBrain> cpp:         107173 (87.90%)
17:49:25  <Noldo> TrueBrain: what's that?
17:49:37  <TrueBrain> ansic:        14442 (11.85%)
17:49:37  <TrueBrain> sh:             302 (0.25%)
17:49:37  <TrueBrain> asm:              6 (0.00%)
17:49:38  <Rubidium> Noldo: never heard of sloccount?
17:49:52  <Noldo> no
17:49:59  <TrueBrain> Welcome to OpenTTD
17:50:11  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD contains 107,173 CPP lines
17:50:14  <TrueBrain> of which 14,438 is table-work
17:50:14  <TrueBrain> all trains and their speed, and more of that shit
17:50:20  <TrueBrain> sloc -> source line of code
17:50:23  <TrueBrain> it counts how big a project is
17:50:23  <TrueBrain> like this project is worth 4M $ ;)
17:50:38  <TrueBrain> and should take 31 years to program for 1 person :)
17:50:44  <glx> we were rich if we were paid :)
17:50:56  <ln-> chris sawyer would be rich if he was paid.
17:51:07  <TrueBrain> he got payed for TT
17:51:10  <TrueBrain> and he is rich
17:51:22  <TrueBrain> Osai: you have the url to the grf pack?
17:51:26  <TrueBrain> (lazy :p)
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17:51:44  <hylje> wait, what? we has assembly?
17:51:52  <TrueBrain> 6 lines, yes
17:51:58  <TrueBrain> win64.asm
17:52:14  *** Daimos [] has quit []
17:52:46  <Osai> TrueBrain: this one will work:
17:52:58  <Osai> all grfs you need are inside
17:55:44  <Osai> how to change save interval via console?
17:56:56  <TrueBrain> Osai: the '_before' you sent me, does it also cause those desyncs?
17:57:04  <Osai> no
17:57:08  <Osai> but the game is almost empty
17:57:09  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: does r9707 like a suspect?
17:57:35  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I think that is a big fat: YES
17:58:12  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:58:17  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: osai is resseting server so it does saves
17:58:23  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: depending on the newgrf, that is network unsafe
17:58:27  <Phazorx> how many desyncs toy want in it?
17:58:45  *** Osai is now known as Osai^dinner
17:59:43  <Phazorx> TrueBrain/Rubidium  you guys shouild join #openttdcoop and watch the desyncs realtime
18:00:16  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: those things aren't used upon load with those grfs
18:00:41  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: maybe not, but when they store some internal state of the GRF...
18:01:28  <TrueBrain> I totally agree with you
18:02:10  <peter1138> Rubidium: ish
18:04:48  *** Osai^dinner [] has quit [Quit: Osai^dinner]
18:05:01  <peter1138> only grf i've seen using what 9707 adds is an unreleased NARS version
18:05:15  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:05:18  <TrueBrain> :)
18:05:26  <TrueBrain> but the potential desync should be underlined :)
18:05:28  <peter1138> and the data is not persistent
18:05:42  <peter1138> (well it is, but only because i didn't bother clearing it, as it's hardly ever used)
18:06:22  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: is it already desyncing?
18:06:24  <peter1138> besides, there have been odd desyncs way before that :)_
18:06:32  <Phazorx> we got 2 so far
18:06:35  <TrueBrain> peter1138: and there will always be :p
18:06:39  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: clients who joined from the start?
18:06:40  <Phazorx> it could be visit -effect
18:06:55  <Phazorx> 2 clients who joined rigth after restert got dropped right away
18:06:59  <Phazorx> then rejoined fine
18:06:59  <peter1138> large terraforming does it sometimes
18:07:13  <TrueBrain> now see, that is just odd :)
18:07:23  *** scia [~scia@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:07:42  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: looks like visit effect in action we have less issues with Rubidium present in channel
18:08:06  <Rubidium> you were just faking desync ;)
18:08:07  <TrueBrain> I want pass :p
18:08:25  <TrueBrain> (to join the game, that is)
18:08:37  <TrueBrain> lol, gui glitches in network dialog :)
18:08:57  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: join #openttdcoop, they're spamming the password in there ;)
18:08:59  <TrueBrain> cpp_gui hopefully solves most of them :p
18:09:06  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, but I am too lazy
18:09:21  <TrueBrain> bah
18:09:23  <TrueBrain> I hate invites
18:14:30  <Cipri> Is it possible to make multilevel stations yet?
18:15:35  <Zuu> Cipri: Yes, but not multiple levels on the same square.
18:16:03  <Cipri> Single track trainstations spanning multiple levels?
18:16:28  <hylje> we appear to have one
18:16:34  <hylje> i dunno htf it was made
18:16:38  <Cipri> yeah, exactly.
18:16:44  <Cipri> I think someone has a hacked client that allows that.
18:16:48  <Cipri> Which might explain the desync?
18:16:50  <hylje> but the trains swap level just fine there
18:16:53  <hylje> dunno
18:16:58  <hylje> it works here now
18:17:29  <Cipri> yeah, but /how/ was it made?
18:20:12  <hylje> duno
18:24:22  <Sacro> so, what are you gonna do now breakpoints have been patented?
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18:30:53  <Osai^dinner> re
18:31:02  *** Osai^dinner is now known as Osai
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18:34:20  <Ammler> Osai: you linked directly to the zip :(
18:34:41  <Osai> whats the problem with that?
18:34:46  <Ammler> now my Statistics will go wrong
18:34:57  <Osai> hmm oO
18:35:00  <Osai> why?
18:35:18  <Ammler> most guys donwloaded 7z until now
18:35:44  <Ammler>
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18:43:31  <peter1138> i won't touch 7z, heh
18:43:56  <TrueBrain> 7z.... NO WAY
18:44:39  <hylje> 7z yes way!
18:44:44  <hylje> but i prefer bzip
18:45:05  <peter1138> hylje: in this case the zip is smaller
18:50:01  <Ammler> peter1138: because I made the zip with 7z
18:50:12  <peter1138> hmm
18:50:19  <Ammler> else it would have same sice
18:50:26  <Ammler> !s/sice/size
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19:32:49  <Phazorx> back
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19:33:10  <dihedral> anybody here good with apache?
19:33:29  <dihedral> i somehow cannot get apache to server *.patch files as plain text
19:33:41  <Phazorx> mime types?
19:33:52  <dihedral> but it will happily server *.sav files as plain text
19:33:57  <dihedral> have already set those
19:34:03  <dihedral> no change
19:34:54  <dihedral> any other ideas?
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19:37:49  <Phazorx> it must be mime/file type settings
19:37:56  <Phazorx> there is nothing else that affects that
19:37:59  <Phazorx> aisde of file perimissions
19:38:46  <mikk36[EST]> lol
19:38:46  <mikk36[EST]>
19:39:03  *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
19:40:15  <dihedral> the files are only being served to download
19:40:23  <TrueBrain> Coop guys: <- this is what you guys triggered me to write :p
19:40:27  <dihedral> mime file types have already been set to text/plain
19:43:56  <dihedral> TrueBrain: you got 2 the's there >> because of the the newgrf_engine isn't called, and therefor the game goes wrong.
19:45:28  <TrueBrain> dihedral: fixed; but I am sure there are many more english mistakes ;)
19:45:56  <dihedral> hehe
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19:46:33  <dihedral> could that same thing have caused the desyncs on the 0.5.1 games?
19:46:50  <dihedral> ir is that a nightly / trunk issue
19:47:07  <TrueBrain> I think thisone is strictly nightly
19:47:14  <TrueBrain> but we will know when we find the cause :)
19:47:46  <dihedral> btw check out
19:48:19  <TrueBrain> not my department :)
19:49:00  <dihedral> lol
19:49:10  <dihedral> Rubidium's?
19:49:16  <TrueBrain>'s
19:49:23  <dihedral> shall do :-)
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19:58:19  <Ammler> #openttdcoop goes most time with actual nightly and these desyncs aren't there so long, around 1 week.
19:59:19  <Ammler> our admins, where updated the server because of that would know more
20:02:55  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i read ur article
20:03:04  <Phazorx> i understand your complications and we are willing to help
20:03:18  <Phazorx> however problem of this magnitude should be fixable
20:03:50  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: mostly coop is willing to help :) Sadly enough, more is needed... as currently we are back to the fact that the newgrfs are fucking it up :p
20:04:23  <Phazorx> sounds like more asserts are coming
20:04:36  <Phazorx> which will lead to fixing newgrfs
20:04:53  <Phazorx> however was the problem localized soemwhere
20:04:57  <Phazorx> so we can disable damnt hing ?
20:04:58  <glx> asserts are only useful when you now what goes wrong
20:05:06  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: remove aircrafts :p
20:05:12  <Phazorx> glx: i tihnk asserts are to tell you what goes wrong
20:05:19  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: sure
20:05:29  <TrueBrain> currently we get different data on the client when we ask the max_speed of an aircraft to the newgrf
20:05:31  <TrueBrain> looking into it
20:05:35  <Ammler> TrueBrain: you mean newindustry?
20:05:47  <TrueBrain> where in my story did I use industry?!?!
20:05:57  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: is that new planes specifically or aircrafts in general ?
20:06:05  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: dunno :p
20:06:09  <Phazorx> kk
20:06:32  <TrueBrain> I only see that vehicle_id 5406 has a max_speed of 39 on the server and 15 on the client
20:06:40  <TrueBrain> (which of course results into problems sooner or later)
20:06:49  <TrueBrain> I can also tell you it has engine_type 252 :p
20:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: asserts only tell you that something went wrong, it does not really tell you what
20:09:07  <Ammler> TrueBrain: I thought, if there are new problems with newgrf, they have something to do with them
20:09:30  <TrueBrain> Ammler: I just told you it has to do with aircrafts :)
20:09:32  <TrueBrain> to me it looks like a bug in a newgrf, it replies different max_speed for different situations
20:09:47  <TrueBrain> or maybe ttdpatch allows that... I don't know enough about newgrfs :p
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20:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> wasn't there a commit about aircraft callbacks recently?
20:12:01  <TrueBrain> to come back to something I said 2 hours ago: I hate newgrfs
20:14:04  <Ammler> Does that include newhouses, -cargos and -industries?
20:14:24  <TrueBrain> I hate newgrfs
20:14:26  <TrueBrain> period
20:14:26  <TrueBrain> :p
20:15:54  <Belugas> must be a <Tr> thing... so does Tron ^_^
20:16:04  <TrueBrain> :)
20:16:44  <ln-> what doesn't Tron hate? (an honest question)
20:17:03  <Ammler> maybe Im wrong, but the main work from 0.5 to 0.6 is newgrf?
20:17:17  <TrueBrain> you are wrong :)
20:17:29  <Ammler> but not much :)
20:17:55  <TrueBrain> true, but still :p
20:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> !openttd commit 9671
20:20:09  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r9671 /trunk/src/ (9 files) (2007-04-18 18:37:40 UTC)
20:20:10  <_42_> -Codechange: Implement NewGRF callback 36, which allows changing of various properties which were previously static. Vehicle max speed and train power/te/running costs are adjustable.
20:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> that looking like a candidate?
20:20:55  <Ammler> hmm, the date fits our desyncs
20:23:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> then try before that revision :)
20:23:39  <Rubidium> especially with aircraft
20:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> narf... HD full...
20:25:43  <glx> burn :)
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20:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd rather have "full HD" :p
20:27:34  <glx> expensive hardware ;)
20:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> there are only two channels that broadcast in HD anyway...
20:29:46  <TrueBrain> and doesn't work under wine :(
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9774 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-03 22:30:56
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1)
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 2 fixed by thetitan (2)
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by Hadez (2)
20:31:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
20:34:11  <Sacro> HDTTD?
20:35:26  <Rubidium> Sacro: you can already do that
20:36:33  <Sacro> Rubidium: yay!
20:37:20  <Rubidium> at least my laptop has a higher that HD resolution and I can play OTTD full screen
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20:42:50  <Belugas> end of a tremendous working day
20:42:54  <Belugas> bye guys
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21:33:48  <RobertGrammig> who much of a quick clickfest are openttd multiplayer games?
21:36:26  <lolman> RobertGrammig, think of a single player game...only the AI are human, and actually know how to lay networks :)
21:36:49  <lolman> Oh and add a few desyncs too :D
21:37:17  <Zuu> Depends on the map and the ruleset.
21:46:31  <Rubidium> lolman: what desyncs?
21:46:48  <lolman> Rubidium, I was joking with that :)
21:46:51  <Rubidium> he doesn't look like somebody playing nightlies
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22:07:32  <elmex>
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22:32:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:35:05  <Immow> hello
22:35:17  <Immow> I got this copy past mod that works great
22:35:37  <Immow> I am just wondering if it is possible to copy past something bigger then 63 by 63 tiles?
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22:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> you should probably ask Frostregen
22:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> elmex: let me guess, you own that pink network in the focus :)
22:37:56  <elmex> haha
22:38:09  <elmex> not really
22:38:15  <elmex> the red one
22:38:58  <SpComb> yay, python thingies for master-server list fetching and game info fetching
22:39:10  <Immow> thnx Eddi|zuHause3
22:39:12  <SpComb> although without date handling
22:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> looks nice, except for those half cloverleaf thingies
22:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> they have joins before splits
22:40:10  <elmex> ?
22:40:16  <elmex> joins before splits?
22:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> trains join the main line before the mainline trains split to the side line
22:40:47  <elmex> ah, yes
22:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> rather "unfold" one of the "leaves"
22:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> like it is done on autobahn triangles
22:41:23  <elmex> hm
22:41:38  <elmex> unfold?
22:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, a leaf from the main line to the side line is a 270° curve to the right
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22:42:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you move the split before the join, do a 90° curve right and a 180° curve left instead
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22:44:55  <elmex> ah, you mean that the leafs, eg. in
22:45:03  <elmex> should be "bigger"
22:45:10  <elmex> ?
22:45:11  <SpComb> svn:// in case anyone cares
22:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> i said nothing about bigger...
22:46:15  <elmex> hmm
22:47:45  <elmex> ?
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22:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, something like that, minus 90° turns :)
22:49:43  <elmex> hm
22:52:03  <elmex> like this: ?
22:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that looks ok
22:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> next step would be the 2x45° turns on the downhill sections
22:54:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> which is easy with build on slopes
22:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> just build the diagonal section one tile further, and go downhill parallel to the side line
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22:56:26  <elmex> heh, this is on a server, i guessi cant enable build on slopes
22:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> and driving on left scares me :)
22:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, you can do it without, just go downhill a tile further away from the side line
22:59:16  <elmex>
22:59:19  <elmex> ?
22:59:58  <elmex> i often mix up the sides where the trains drive :-)
23:00:14  <Patrick> I can't stand to make junctions like that
23:00:27  <Patrick> realistic acceleration makes tight corners untenable
23:01:07  <Patrick> bridges on diagonal rails makes a T-junction really simple to do without any slowdown but the problem is that none of the lines can go without signal gaps - 5 or 6 tiles with no signals
23:01:14  <Patrick> so your throughput is reduced anyway
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23:02:35  <elmex> hmm
23:03:25  <Patrick> I'd do you an SS but I don't have the game installed here
23:03:35  <elmex> SS ?
23:03:38  <Patrick> screenshot
23:03:43  <elmex> ah
23:04:07  <elmex> bridges on diagonals would be cool :-)
23:04:18  <Patrick> it's in mainline now
23:04:21  <Patrick> I think
23:04:29  <elmex> hm
23:04:39  <elmex> lets have a look
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23:06:50  <elmex> unfortunately my bottleneck isn't a cloverleaf junction ;-/
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23:11:31  <elmex> the worst bottleneck is
23:12:04  <elmex> but i guess that easily fixable with a buffer before the station
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23:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> the bridges are in trunk, but not in release
23:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could do with another entrance track :)
23:14:38  <elmex> hm
23:14:39  <elmex> yes
23:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> and exit
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23:15:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> Patrick: you can sustain longer signal distance by splitting up the line into two, for the bridge part
23:17:10  <RobertGrammig> very low town density on nightly hard is strange... a mistake?
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23:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> possible
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23:18:05  <elmex> hm, something like this?
23:18:24  <elmex> lol
23:18:24  <elmex> no
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23:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think that's what he meant
23:19:14  <elmex> yes
23:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> more something like having the mainline diagonal
23:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> and the split lines as bridges
23:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> why do you always have that weird inverted line around your screenshots?
23:21:31  <elmex> i guess thats a bug with imagemagicks import command
23:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, my openttd just hang
23:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> i was modifying newgrf settings from the main window...
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23:30:46  <elmex> hmm
23:30:54  <elmex> that would be an option
23:31:26  <elmex> but bridges severly slow the train more down than a tunnel IMO
23:32:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought more like this:,%203.%20Feb%201920.png
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23:33:10  <ln-> good, still from .ee
23:33:22  <elmex> hmm
23:33:42  <elmex> that would slow down the mainline quite a lot
23:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> the problem with tunnels is, they need more space
23:35:14  <elmex> hm, yes
23:35:37  <ln-> isn't that title "Gleis- / Bahnhofsbau" a little misleading?
23:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> why would it?
23:36:32  <Immow> I looked at the wiki
23:36:39  <Immow> those new textures
23:36:44  <ln-> there is no Bahnhof in the original, and only one button is related to Bahnhöfe (Bahnhofs?).
23:36:48  <Immow> of buildings trains etcetra they look amazing
23:37:14  <ln-> it could equally well be "Gleis- und Tunnelbau".
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23:37:34  <Immow> so when can this but put into action?
23:37:41  <Immow> be*
23:37:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> Immow: probably still takes a while :=)
23:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: if at all, it is a further specification, i don't see the misleading part
23:39:00  <Immow> a while? :)
23:39:03  <Immow> 1 year or so?
23:39:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> "it is done when it is done"
23:39:17  <Immow> haha :)
23:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> that enough for you?
23:39:22  <Immow> yea :)
23:39:37  <Immow> I can model stuff
23:39:42  <ln-> "Gleis- / Tunnel- / Brücke- / Bahnhofsbau"
23:39:45  <Immow> I could model something?
23:40:01  <Immow> <-- industrial designer
23:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: i am just lucky you are not a german translator :)
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23:44:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> elmex: there is no slowdown if you have fast enough bridges :)
23:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think there are 600km/h bridges in the newbridges set
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23:45:56  <ln-> so am i
23:48:17  <elmex> ?
23:48:45  <elmex> ah
23:48:45  <elmex> wait
23:50:14  <elmex>
23:50:42  <elmex> aw
23:50:44  <elmex> too late today
23:51:29  <Patrick> elmex: yeah
23:51:32  <Patrick> 4 is right
23:51:39  <elmex> nope
23:51:45  <elmex> this is right
23:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> but that definitely suffers from long bridges ;)
23:51:51  <Patrick> maybe move the diversion back another tile
23:51:58  <Patrick> yeah
23:52:05  <Patrick> make all bridge spans as short as possible
23:52:32  <Patrick> 2 for takeoff and landing, 2 to span the diagonal is a signal every 6 tiles, which isn't too bad
23:52:50  <Patrick> and take it from me
23:53:06  <Patrick> 7 angled track is the minimum length required to have an 8-car train turn without slowing
23:53:12  <Patrick> and 9 angled track for 10-car
23:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is basically a topological identical version as mine
23:53:17  <Patrick> so scale up appropriately
23:53:20  <Patrick> yeah
23:53:22  <Patrick> mine too
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23:54:27  <SpComb> Logs:
23:54:27  <Belugas_Gone> !logs
23:54:36  <Belugas_Gone> bookmarked
23:55:11  <elmex> ?

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