Log for #openttd on 7th May 2007:
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00:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> err. aren't bus stops already in trunk?
00:05:25  <glx> they are
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00:34:26  <Sionide> heheh lol, magic bulldozer fucks up the AI
00:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> magic bulldozer fucks up everything... only ever use it while game is paused
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02:18:09  <glenster> hello everyone - I'm a newbie.... :O
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02:27:52  <Digitalfox[Home]> Good Night everybody :)
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08:09:32  <lolman> All praise to the netsplit! :P
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08:37:50  <kaan> hello all
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11:24:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9805 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Use HASBIT() et al for display options bits.
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12:57:55  <helb> uh
12:57:57  <helb> wtf?
12:59:12  <Belugas> a quick spammer
12:59:48  <TinoDidriksen> Quickly dealt with too. If only Blizzard would implement something like that...
13:04:30  <Zr40> it was automatically dealt with
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13:13:40  <RobertGrammig> will knowledge in c# help me to program stuff for open ttd?
13:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> only if you can adapt c# knowledge to c or c++
13:15:56  <Patrick> probably not.
13:16:08  <Zr40> No.
13:16:36  <Zr40> the only similarity between C# and C(++) are the control structures (in other words, basic stuff)
13:16:46  <Maedhros> nice opinion gradient there :)
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13:17:38  <hylje> something in me wants to implement python bindings for ottd
13:17:49  <hylje> plugins :O
13:17:56  <Patrick> mmm, python
13:18:12  <Zr40> take a look at boost::python
13:19:04  <hylje> i no it
13:19:09  <hylje> but havent dug deeper into it
13:22:44  <hylje> would be rather kewl to have python blobs taking part in ottd innards
13:23:10  <Patrick> how, though
13:23:16  <Patrick> what would be an application for it
13:23:38  <hylje> functionality?
13:23:55  <hylje> pluggable patches?
13:24:06  <Patrick> yeah, what sort of functionality
13:24:18  <hylje> i dunno
13:24:24  <Patrick> if it was something that got executed every game tick it'd be too slow
13:24:37  <hylje> event-based?
13:26:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9806 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 support for purchase cost, for all vehicle types.
13:27:54  <DaleStan> And do you really want to add a second set of add-ons that have to be identical for MP safety?
13:28:29  <hylje> yes
13:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> he's insane, remember?
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13:29:57  <hylje> the infrastructure for plugins like that is very much manageable
13:30:08  <peter1138> DaleStan: presumably it could have an advantage from the start that they could be sent to the client by the server
13:30:13  <peter1138> unlike grfs, with all their restrictions
13:30:19  <hylje> yes
13:30:42  <peter1138> i'm not doing it though :p
13:30:54  <hylje> and to prevent malicious use, clients could have the choice to only run peer-approved plugins, which are digitally signed
13:31:09  <hylje> i *might* be doing it, but thats not likely
13:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> and what kind of signing mechanism do you think is "open-source-safe"? (i.e. not easily forgeable)
13:33:05  <valhallasw> public-key
13:33:08  <DaleStan> So you're going to willfully restrict the valid plugin licenses? That doesn't quite seem like the Open Source ideal.
13:33:27  <hylje> python as it is now cannot be sandboxed
13:34:09  <Maedhros> you don't have to restrict the licences - you could just have a "redistributable" variable in the plugin
13:34:10  <hylje> and the licencing part is just about free use, instead of the licence mess we got with newgrf
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13:37:08  <DaleStan> And enforcing free use is not something you should be doing.
13:37:27  <hylje> why not
13:37:32  <hylje> its about convenience
13:38:55  <DaleStan> No, it's not. It's about choice. Users, and programmers, should always have choice. We can hope that they will choose free, but enforcing it will merely give more ammunition to anti-free-use parties.
13:39:14  <eJoJ> and we have 4x1600*1200 openttd =D
13:39:22  <hylje> by that logic i suppose GPL is bad?
13:40:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> please don't go there...
13:40:31  <hylje> however, it is just silly to be able to have closed or restricted code in a GPL'd framework
13:41:06  <DaleStan> Oh? So it's silly for gcc to be able to compile, and glibc to be able to run, closed-source code?
13:41:20  <peter1138> yes, if you're RMS :D
13:42:24  <DaleStan> Fortunately, RMS doesn't seem to visit this channel too often.
13:43:24  <peter1138> thank god
13:43:32  <hylje> glibc is lgpl
13:44:14  <DaleStan> Or maybe better: "It's silly to have Linux releases of closed-source software?"
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13:44:53  <hylje> okay, let me rephrase: have closed or restricted code linking to GPL software
13:45:03  <hylje> which is incompatible due to gpl
13:45:17  <hylje> unless private use iirc
13:45:51  <hylje> but in case of multiplayer-enabled plugins that's distribution
13:46:16  <DaleStan> I think you'll have a hard time arguing that a python script is somehow linked (in the preprocess/compile/assemble/link sense of the word) to the OpenTTD binaries.
13:46:42  <hylje> it can be argued, but it calls and uses resources provided by ottd
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13:47:12  <DaleStan> Does not newgrf do the same?
13:47:24  <hylje> i see newgrf as data
13:47:28  <SpComb> Logs:
13:47:28  <boekabart_> !logs
13:49:51  <peter1138> hello boekabart_
13:49:53  <boekabart_> hi
13:49:57  <peter1138> any ideas on the flooding?
13:50:24  <boekabart_> Yeah, but I've had my inlaws visiting until yesterday, so haven't touched the PC much
13:50:35  <boekabart_> just at work, and there i actually have to work a lot
13:51:05  <boekabart_> I just got the first grf file from leppka, first thing is to use it
13:51:50  <boekabart_> I'm actually not so sure that with the 'high sea level' patch, the river/lake support is such a good idea. The flooding danger is too big, that makes it useless in multiplayer, i'm afraid
13:52:16  <hylje> its awesome enough to be dealt with :-)
13:52:24  <boekabart_> Plus, it's out of scope: I just wanted to raise the water level by 1 so you'd be able to tunnel under shallow water
13:52:26  <hylje> rail beside river bank for instance
13:53:06  <boekabart_> I've been playing around with a more 'realistic' water patch, that actually works with sub-tile water levels
13:53:25  <hylje> tides?!
13:53:37  <boekabart_> it floods more realisticly... but the graphics part of it is a huge challenge
13:53:44  <boekabart_> hylje: yes, totally possible
13:53:48  <Belugas> boekabart_
13:53:55  <Belugas> nice job
13:54:03  <Belugas> on the diafonal patch
13:54:10  <Belugas> by the way
13:54:20  <hylje> diafonal?
13:54:23  <hylje> s/f/g/?
13:54:29  <boekabart_> i hope so :)
13:54:36  <Belugas> diagonal...
13:54:37  <Belugas> gaaaa
13:54:42  <hylje> faaaa
13:54:54  <boekabart_> it's not my work, but i like it enough to spend some cleanup time on it, to make it a more probably candidate for trunk
13:55:32  <boekabart_> like probably everyone, i've had the idea in my head for ages, but never got around to making it.
13:56:43  <peter1138> why does timidity use up 40% cpu?
13:56:47  <peter1138> playing midi isn't that hard...
13:57:05  <eJoJ> Can you add support for higher resolutions in some time not so far away? gonna get boring compile for every new game started at openttdcoop
13:57:46  <Patrick> higher resolutions in what way?
13:58:03  <eJoJ> screen resolution
13:58:07  <Belugas> boekabart_, we all like that patch.  on the conceptual side, of course.  Code-wise, it's still not there yet
13:58:12  <Patrick> what do you mean
13:58:20  <Belugas> but it's (imho) a darn good candidate for trunk
13:58:20  <Patrick> it's just a window, can't you resize it as big as you want?
13:58:32  <eJoJ> it's hardcoded as max 2000*1900 or something
13:58:51  <Patrick> ... why?
13:59:30  <eJoJ> dunno why they have maxed it at so low, now I compiled and played at 4 screens 1600*1200
13:59:40  <boekabart_> Belugas: I'm (and the original author is, I guess) willing to spend time on it, if I get the feedback on what's not OK yet.
14:00:09  <Patrick> "they" are right here, you could just ask :)
14:00:17  <boekabart_> eJoJ: and maximize/stretch window doesn't do it?
14:00:21  <boekabart_> Topic:
14:00:59  <eJoJ> nope, openttd.h #587 and #588
14:01:04  <Belugas> boekabart_, already started to work on that ;)
14:01:17  <boekabart_> damn he's right, stretch doesn't go bigger than 2000 or so
14:01:25  <peter1138> 2048x1200, yes
14:01:34  <boekabart_> an maximize doesn't want to on windows, it maximizes on 1 screen only
14:01:38  <Belugas> boekabart_:  micomico and you have already cleaned up nicely :)
14:02:46  <boekabart_> eJoJ: I guess the reason is to save memory on the DIRTY array
14:03:37  <boekabart_> gfx.cpp line 62. 63
14:04:14  <eJoJ> boekabart_: how large would the difference be for lets say6400*4800
14:04:28  <boekabart_> 6*4=24 times as big :)
14:04:34  <boekabart_> sprry. 3*4=12 times
14:05:11  <peter1138> overall, not that big
14:05:17  <boekabart_> now:4800 items, then : 6000
14:05:18  <peter1138> 60000 bytes instead of 48000 bytes
14:05:21  <boekabart_> 60000
14:05:24  <peter1138> er, 4800 bytes :/
14:05:26  <peter1138> lol
14:05:28  <boekabart_> yea
14:05:30  <boekabart_> well
14:05:40  <hylje> sounds rather trivial
14:05:40  <peter1138> both got it wrong :D
14:05:53  <boekabart_> change request to match 2007 situation?
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14:06:26  <boekabart_> any dev willing to risk his neck on this one? ;)
14:07:31  <Patrick> anything on-screen has to be drawn as well
14:07:37  <Patrick> much more cpu intensive
14:07:45  <Patrick> I don't see why that'd stop it from being drawn though
14:07:52  <hylje> usually people using a load of monitors also have the resources to draw it
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14:08:12  <boekabart_> but that doesn't affect performance with constant screen size
14:08:13  <eJoJ> <-- cluster =D
14:09:00  <boekabart_> well actually... 60k might cause more cache misses than a 5k block
14:09:15  <boekabart_> so it may actually decrease performance
14:10:15  <boekabart_> isn't 3200 x 2400 an acceptable compromise? OR can the dirty array implementation be changed with dynamic size? (makes it a bit slower also)
14:11:19  <boekabart_> Belugas: just played around a little with the diagonal patch and there's something not quite right. it increases the size by too-big steps i think. You cannot get a 3-tile selection, for instance, only even numbers.
14:11:20  <eJoJ> The 6400*4800 was just an example, and that includes 8 monitors on 1600*1200
14:11:33  <boekabart_> eJoJ: 4x4 = 16
14:12:03  <eJoJ> right, should have walked to bed 14 hours ago or something
14:13:18  <eJoJ> but 3200x2400 should be enough for some years
14:13:57  <Frostregen__> why not make a "maxres" config setting and allocate memory accordingly once?
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14:24:17  <boekabart_> Frostregen: Good idea. Can you make a patch? ;)
14:24:57  <Frostregen> sure... if this has any chance of beeing accepted ;)
14:25:50  <boekabart_> there are devs here, ask them :)
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14:26:09  <elmex> hm
14:26:23  <boekabart_> Anyway, I think eJoJ should open a topic on it on the forum first, it's his wish.
14:26:26  <boekabart_> bye now
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14:26:30  <Frostregen> this was an implicit question
14:36:38  <peter1138> new services... hmm
14:36:53  <peter1138> less or more annoying, i wonder
14:37:43  <hylje> omg services
14:40:30  <Zr40> you use them daily?
14:40:46  <Zr40> other than nickserv identify, that is
14:44:21  <elmex> someone told me that transfering eg. coal with trucks will mess up my income - don't know why he said that ;/
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14:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> transfer has been fixed recently
14:49:45  <Digitalfox> Hello!
14:50:05  <hylje> i wouldnt say fixed, rather "improved"
14:50:10  <Digitalfox> Damn it's hot 32ºC in Portugal..
14:50:57  <elmex> hm,ok
14:51:04  <elmex> what was wrong weith transfer?
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14:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> it was just broken...
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14:53:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> except for the most basic setups, transfer-money and point of origin were not propagated properly
14:53:55  <elmex> hm, ok
14:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only thing that is still not possible is two way transfer systems
14:54:22  <elmex> whats that?
14:54:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. airport:
14:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> you bring passengers with busses
14:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> and take away the passengers that arrive by plane
14:55:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> this will not work
14:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> this will need passenger destinations
14:55:46  <elmex> hm, because the airport wouldn't accept passengers in the firstplace? or hmm... weird
14:56:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, on the airport you mix passengers from the busses and passengers from the planes
14:56:33  <elmex> oh, right
14:56:46  <elmex> so you would first have to transfer them from the airport and then to
14:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> it will just not work at all,
14:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can either bring the passengers with busses, or take them away with busses, never both
14:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> the busses would take the passengers away that they just brought
14:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> same for the planes
14:58:41  <elmex> yes, right
14:59:14  <elmex> one would first have to completly transfer the passengers _from_ the airport and make it empty before transfering new passengers to it.. and thats not really possible i guess
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15:00:18  <elmex> hm, it's good to hear thjat it works. extending station artificial to reach nearby producers is just .. well it sucks
15:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> for goods that only go one way, transfer should work correctly
15:02:15  <elmex> :)
15:02:38  <elmex> i;ve read about the passenger-destinations thingie in the forums i guess. would be awesome
15:02:52  *** Cipri [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:02:56  <elmex> but i've also heard of voices saying that the game shouldn't become too complex
15:03:36  <hylje> the game will be simple to understand
15:03:47  <hylje> but the underpinnings can be very complex and elegant
15:04:01  <elmex> hm
15:04:23  <hylje> you can play paxdest games without caring about the passengers themselves that much
15:04:34  <hylje> they work mostly as you would expect in real life
15:04:51  <elmex> well, eg. when industries only accept certain amounts of stuff i have the fear that the micro-management will be too much
15:04:59  <elmex> heh
15:05:01  <elmex> yes
15:11:20  <Belugas> real life sucks
15:11:23  <Belugas> in every way
15:11:31  <elmex> mostly, yes
15:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> you will be able to switch off passenger destinations in difficulty settings
15:12:42  <elmex> yes
15:12:50  <elmex> that would be indeed nice
15:13:35  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:13:37  <elmex> i've played railroad tycoon (was it version 2? i dunno...) once, and higher difficulty levels brought more complexity with them. eg. you have to take care of amounts of cargo ...
15:15:50  *** HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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15:35:46  <peter1138> pomtepom
15:35:53  <TrueBrain> pomPIEdom....
15:36:25  <peter1138> lalala
15:36:28  <Sacro> wtf
15:36:34  <peter1138> what?
15:36:34  <Sacro> nickserv is screwed
15:36:47  <peter1138> 15:35 [oftc] -OFTC( [GlobalNotice] Hi all! OFTC is proud to  announce that it is about to launch its new services.
15:36:56  <Sacro> bah
15:38:31  <ln-> lilo spam on oftc??
15:38:59  <Sacro> ln-: lilo dead
15:39:00  <TrueBrain> this aint spam, this was very much needed information for everyone :)
15:39:04  <Sacro> he got k-lined
15:39:09  <TrueBrain> <- as promised
15:40:19  *** moe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:41:07  <elmex> TrueBrain: thats interesting
15:41:11  <elmex> good to know
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15:46:14  <Sacro> hmm, this BUILDOTTD looks good
15:47:55  <TrueBrain> it sure does
15:48:15  <TrueBrain> it has been a while that I have seen an idea this good and simple come around :)
15:49:30  <Sacro> i wonder...
15:49:39  <Sacro> i might look into it, and see if i can help it
15:49:53  <TrueBrain> "if I can help it"
15:49:54  <TrueBrain> sounds odd..
15:52:32  <Sacro> does it? sounds fine to me
15:53:12  <TrueBrain> I am sure peter1138 can explain what I mean (if he understands :p)
15:54:18  <peter1138> with it
15:54:37  <Sacro> hmm, with could be added
15:54:59  <TrueBrain> peter1138: I was more looking why this is wrong :) I can explain in Dutch, but not in English :p
15:55:27  <TrueBrain> bleh, languages are tricky :)
15:58:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9807 /trunk/src/ (ship.h ship_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: unify playing of sound when vehicle has been loaded and leaves the station.
15:59:21  *** eJoJ [~Aim@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:01:37  *** Peakki [] has joined #openttd
16:04:02  <peter1138> "Normally people wait until binaries arrive (and then that is always too late because the testing has been done then)"
16:04:27  <peter1138> people can't be arsed to get the nightlies but will compile?
16:04:29  <peter1138> hmm
16:04:45  <hylje> depends on the people
16:05:53  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:06:51  *** Zr40 [] has joined #openttd
16:07:19  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
16:07:28  <Wolf01> hello
16:09:44  <Sacro> yarr
16:13:49  * Wolf01 prods Sacro, do something usefull, bring me a coke
16:14:08  <Sacro> liquid or powder?
16:14:12  <Wolf01> liquid
16:14:39  <Sacro> i will e-mail you some
16:15:28  <Wolf01> ok, thank you
16:15:47  <Wolf01> time to sync the drag&drop remove station
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16:21:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9808 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unify the Handle<VehicleType>Loading functions.
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16:24:27  <Wolf01> how much would be usefull a set of station creation patches?
16:25:35  <Maedhros> hmm. if only gmail properly supported fixed-width emails...
16:34:51  *** kaan [jfk@] has joined #openttd
16:34:56  <kaan> hi all
16:38:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9809 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 properties to purchase lists and add running cost changing for ships.
16:48:40  <Wolf01> another usefull patch, mp safe
16:48:46  <kaan> so i guess this is the zen idle moment?
16:52:48  <Wolf01> seem so
16:53:05  <kaan> :)
16:54:04  <peter1138> Wolf01: drag 'n' drop removal?
16:54:35  <Wolf01> yeah
16:58:41  <Belugas> like when building?
16:59:11  <Wolf01> yes
16:59:22  * peter1138 cleans it up
16:59:25  <Patrick> ooooh
16:59:31  <Patrick> yeah, I've wanted that for ages
16:59:58  <Wolf01> i've it done for a long time
17:04:10  <peter1138> bloody gui.h change
17:04:20  * peter1138 waits for half the source to recompile :p
17:05:07  *** scia [~scia@] has joined #openttd
17:05:41  * Zuu remembers when he wrote up globals on a paper and waited untill the list was long enough before he added them too save complie time. :)
17:10:43  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:10:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9810 /trunk/src/ (gui.h rail_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Add drag and drop removal of station tiles (Wolf01)
17:11:13  <Wolf01> lol, quick, many thanks XD
17:12:29  <Maedhros> ooh, i was just thinking how useful that would be. fantastic!
17:13:31  <Maedhros> on an vaguely related note though, changing english.txt is not fun...
17:13:35  <peter1138> hehe
17:14:11  <peter1138> Wolf01: shit, sorry, i forgot we're supposed to sit on it for 12 months...
17:14:38  <Wolf01> don't bother, my next patch will make you to do it so
17:14:50  <peter1138> heh
17:15:26  <Wolf01> my "next"... the adjoin stations patch of this night
17:15:37  <Maedhros> i'm just working on that :)
17:15:58  <Maedhros> ... i say working, i mean "waiting for it to compile again"
17:16:54  <Wolf01> this time you were quick as the TGV
17:17:48  <Maedhros> what do you think?
17:18:14  <Maedhros> i've added a patch option and the ability to build over a station if it's adjacent to another one
17:18:39  <Wolf01> i hope it won't make the other station a ghost
17:18:52  <Wolf01> like this night
17:19:00  <peter1138> ghost stations :D
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17:19:40  <Maedhros> heh, how do you mean "a ghost"?
17:20:22  <Wolf01> i mean that if you cover an existent station with the new one
17:20:27  <Wolf01> the old station disappear
17:20:36  <Wolf01> and you can't destroy it
17:20:39  <Wolf01> or extend it
17:20:49  <Maedhros> ah. no, you can't build over more than one station
17:21:00  <Wolf01> that's what i mean
17:21:13  <peter1138> if allow adjacent is on, can you build over just one station?
17:21:35  <Maedhros> yes
17:22:10  <peter1138> so it's broken then :p
17:22:29  * Maedhros is lost :p
17:22:31  <Wolf01> you can replicate the "bug" by removing the if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
17:22:48  <Wolf01> from my patch
17:23:03  <peter1138> Wolf01: he has, heh
17:23:11  * peter1138 compilifies to test
17:23:19  <Wolf01> but you was the mind :P
17:23:48  <peter1138> besides, there are no bugs
17:23:53  <Maedhros> hehe
17:23:57  <peter1138> that's just the way it's written :D
17:26:29  <peter1138> ah, no ghost stations
17:26:34  <peter1138> it just ignores ctrl
17:26:40  <peter1138> which imho is wrong
17:26:57  <Maedhros> hmm, what would you have it do instead?
17:27:11  <peter1138> error
17:27:19  <peter1138> if overwriting
17:27:36  <peter1138> hmm
17:27:55  <peter1138> i see
17:29:23  <Maedhros> if it give an error you can never change the adjacent part of the station without removing it first...
17:29:34  <Maedhros> *gives
17:29:53  <Wolf01> that's right
17:30:12  <peter1138> another issue
17:30:28  <peter1138> you can't build up stations out of difference pieces
17:31:08  <Wolf01> and why not allow ALWAYS to change a part of a station also if there is an adjacent station?
17:31:10  <NukeBuster> NickServ REGISTER woutertje
17:31:22  <Maedhros> heh
17:31:35  <NukeBuster> lame
17:31:39  <Wolf01> ...
17:49:22  <Maedhros> i'm not sure i see what you mean about not being able to build stations out of different parts
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17:51:17  <Wolf01> just avoid the check for "adjoins more than one station" if there is a station in all the tiles under the area
17:51:41  <Wolf01> and if is the same station
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17:52:23  <prophet> Hi why can't airplanes carry other goods then mail and passenger in 1960?
17:52:30  <prophet> was this allways like that?
17:52:32  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:52:36  <prophet> or can i change somehow
17:52:56  <Wolf01> maybe you need a grf set
17:53:19  <prophet> as far as i know this was possible without
17:54:18  <Wolf01> i know that standard airplanes aren't refittable to oil and another thing, maybe something broke it
17:54:54  <prophet> but why?
17:56:38  <Wolf01> i don't know, i usually play with av8
17:57:08  *** prophet is now known as prophet05
17:57:20  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
17:57:48  <prophet05> and the planes in av8 can transport wathever i want?
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18:00:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9811 /trunk/src/lang/ (american.txt danish.txt dutch.txt):
18:00:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-07 19:59:41
18:00:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 11 fixed by WhiteRabbit (11)
18:00:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 11 fixed by ThomasA (11)
18:00:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed, 2 changed by Zr40 (11)
18:00:06  <prophet05> Wolf01: no they cant transport goods of any kind...
18:00:10  <Wolf01> no, all seem to transport only mail, passengers, goods and valuables
18:00:17  <prophet05> but why?
18:00:30  <prophet05> i allready testet in 200 but thy cant there either
18:00:44  <prophet05> 2000 i mean
18:00:55  <hylje> soviet aircraft for coal transport \o/
18:02:13  <Zuu> IRL-question: Conventional highspeed trains can do 2 (or is it 4) degree of slope in full speed of 200 km/h. Now supose a Maglev can do 500 km/h and 10 degrees, will the G-force when going from 0 degrees to 10 degrees be to big to make it confertable to ride that Maglev?
18:02:13  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
18:03:24  <Zuu> I though I could calculate the G-force by: sin( slope ) * speed, but I guess I'm wrong because that gives 86 G for the MagLev and 6.9 G for conventional highspeed train.
18:03:55  <Zuu> => sin(2)*200 = 6.98
18:04:05  <hylje> we dont care
18:04:17  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
18:04:22  <Zuu> => sin(10)*500 = 87
18:04:23  <hylje> for all we know concordes have a few hundred G on deceleration :)
18:04:27  <prophet05> hylje: there are no sowiet planes that can
18:04:48  <Zuu> hylje: I was not thinking about OTTD, I was thinking about real world use of MagLev.
18:05:06  <hylje> prophet05: oh i heard rumours
18:05:32  <Zuu> Some claim that maglev can do 10 degrees and therefor we can save money as less tunnels are required and so... :)
18:06:26  <prophet05> hylje: what?
18:06:42  <Zuu> But aparently my physics skills are not soo god when I get 7 G on a convetional train which is obviously wrong...
18:07:35  <Rubidium> sin is in radians
18:07:56  <prophet05> not on a calculator
18:08:00  <Zuu> Rubidium: sin can work with degrees on my calculator.
18:08:22  <Maedhros> and the result is unitless anyway, which means what you're actually measuring is the speed vertically
18:08:27  <Maedhros> not the force
18:09:25  <Zuu> hmm.. F = ma, ... so I need vertical acceleration.. I suck on physics :)
18:10:32  <prophet05> what about the planes now?
18:10:55  * Zuu stops spaming #openttd with IRL-issues :D
18:13:57  *** Alanin is now known as alanin
18:14:51  *** scia [~scia@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:14:55  <ln-> Zuu: are you trying to count the G force only with sin(angle) times velocity?
18:17:50  <Zuu> ln-: Yes
18:18:18  <peter1138> that seems a bit simplistic
18:18:36  <ln-> the unit of sin(x) * velocity is velocity (m/s), not m/s^2 as it should be, first of all.
18:19:15  <ln-> and second thing, you seem to be happily multiplying [km/h] and expect to get results that are sensible as [m/s].
18:19:38  <Zuu> But I relize that the track will not change angle on a single point but on say 100 meter and the length of this have to be translated to some vertical acceleration factor... (my guess)
18:20:25  <Zuu> ln-: Okay, many stupid things I've done :)
18:23:23  *** prophet05 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:23:26  *** alanin is now known as Alanin
18:24:11  <ln-> you probably should be doing the calculation by using angular velocity/acceleration, or something.
18:25:32  <Wolf01> Maedhros, how's the work with adjoin stations?
18:26:15  <Maedhros> stalled for the moment, until i understand the issues peter1138 brought up...
18:28:12  <Wolf01> i show them to you
18:28:42  <Wolf01> wait for some minutes to compile and set up the game cam
18:28:50  *** Thomas[NL] [] has joined #openttd
18:31:25  <Thomas[NL]> cd o*
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18:50:46  <Wolf01> Maedhros, can you play wmv movies?
18:51:44  <Maedhros> hopefully, unless they're encrypted, or anything strange like that :)
18:51:44  *** glx|away [] has joined #openttd
18:52:34  <Wolf01> i can't find a software to compress a little the .avi
18:53:37  <Wolf01> i have only windows movie maker and some other softwares, but they make only little videos where you can't see what's happening
18:54:00  <Wolf01> or at least they should make them well if i want to learn how to use them
18:54:19  <Wolf01>
18:54:41  <hylje> what
18:55:58  <boekabart> Wolf01: xvid might be a free option to make avi's?
18:56:03  <Maedhros> ooh, my internet connection's pretty slow today
18:56:08  * Maedhros blames his housemates
18:56:18  <Wolf01> no, that's hosted on my server
18:56:34  <Wolf01> i have only 256kbps of upload
18:56:54  <Maedhros> ah, ok
18:57:01  *** glx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57:09  *** glx|away is now known as glx
18:57:22  <Maedhros> Wolf01: was this video made with your patch or mine, btw?
18:57:31  <Wolf01> my one
18:57:38  <Wolf01> without the check
18:57:43  <Maedhros> oh, ok
18:57:55  <Wolf01> if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
18:57:56  <Maedhros> you can't make ghost stations with my patch anyway...
18:58:05  <Wolf01> i hope that
19:00:16  <Wolf01> i should download virtualdub also on this pc
19:01:00  *** alanin is now known as Alanin
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19:03:56  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:07:50  *** Lex [~22@] has joined #openttd
19:07:56  *** lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:08:26  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
19:08:41  <Lex> óäàëåííàÿ Ðàáîòà â Èíòåðíåòå!!!áûñòðûé àáñîëþòíî ëåãàëüíûé è ãàðàíòèðîâàíûé çàðàáîòîê âñåãî çà 1,5-2 ÷àñà â äåíü íå âûõîäÿ èç äîìà
19:08:41  <Lex> ïîäðîáíîñòè òóò::
19:08:53  <peter1138> really
19:08:56  <Wolf01> eh, yes
19:09:08  <peter1138> i'm so pleased for you
19:09:12  <Sacro> i think his utf-8 is broken
19:09:18  <Sacro> or mine is
19:09:19  <peter1138> however, to really get your message across, use UTF8 :p
19:09:35  <peter1138> Sacro: russians seem to despise utf8
19:09:53  <Sacro> peter1138: well... how does he expect us to read it
19:09:57  *** TinoDidriksen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:10:34  <Sacro> Lex: you might wanna use utf-8, at least then we can read your spam
19:15:19  <Maedhros> peter1138: i'm still a bit confused. how would you want adjacent stations to work?
19:15:46  *** Lex [~22@] has left #openttd []
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19:17:30  <Biff> did anyone look at this?
19:18:00  <Desolator> i have a problem getting 2cc in ottd (using nightly)
19:19:49  <Desolator> i replaced the SH188 (or whatever the temperate DMU is called) with my 2cc dmu, but only the 1st is shown, the 2nd is shown as pure green
19:20:18  <Maedhros> heh, do you have a screenshot of that?
19:20:39  <Desolator> yes
19:21:04  <Desolator> sending via DCC
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19:21:24  <RobertGrammig> I think using station spread to decrease arrival time of goods / increase distance reward is very lame, but I dont want to forbid building large stations in general
19:21:57  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
19:22:08  <RobertGrammig> is there a patch/grf that makes it that a) reward is based on the closest station tile distance b) effective arrival time penalizes for distance from industry to arrival station?
19:25:03  *** lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:26:30  <Desolator> --> 2cc not owrknig, only 1cc is shown
19:26:37  <Desolator> *working
19:26:49  <Desolator> warning! big scheenshot (1280x1024)
19:27:32  <hylje> Desolator: iirc base grf doesnt support 2cc?
19:28:21  <Desolator> not sure
19:28:25  <Desolator> i don't see why
19:28:40  <hylje> because they're straight from ttd
19:28:43  <Maedhros> is this a grf you've made yourself? if not, what is it?
19:29:00  <glx> 2cc is a newgrf feature
19:29:36  <Desolator> it's a hack to trg1r.grf
19:29:59  <Maedhros> then no, it won't support 2cc
19:30:02  <Desolator> will it work if i load it manually? i'm too lazy to go throguh all the nfo
19:31:06  *** lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:31:26  <Maedhros> it'll only work if you set bit 1 of the miscflags using an action 0
19:31:59  <Desolator> ummm...
19:32:03  * Desolator goes to ttdp wiki
19:33:32  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
19:35:36  <Desolator> so what are miscflags?
19:37:38  <Maedhros> these: ;)
19:39:38  <Desolator> thanks
19:42:20  <peter1138> heh
19:45:07  <peter1138> rubadub crumble in the oven :D
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19:45:54  <Sacro> peter1138: i got bramble crumble
19:45:55  <Sacro> tis nice
19:46:15  <Maedhros> mmm
19:46:20  * Maedhros needs some more flour :(
19:48:25  <peter1138> Wolf01: 19:31 < Mucht_> ah r9810 seems to be pretty important to us
19:48:34  <peter1138> just so you know ;)
19:48:46  * Belugas needs to call wife to see what's for supper
19:48:59  <Wolf01> :)
19:49:16  <glx> Belugas: you don't like surprises ?
19:50:16  <peter1138> maybe he has to purchase the ingredients to cook it for her :)
19:51:15  <Belugas> glx : those guys just gave me some cravings :) so if wife has not decided what to cook, i might give her some pointers :D
19:54:42  *** RobertGrammig [~Unke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54:58  <Belugas> peter1138 : we have enough ingredients to satisfy even your needs !
19:55:34  <Belugas> except mint sauce and lamb.... but i'm not too sure you are a stereotype guy ;)
19:56:35  *** TinoDidriksen [] has joined #openttd
19:57:06  <peter1138> hmm, no-newgrf game
19:57:09  <peter1138> how rare
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19:59:29  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
20:02:30  *** Rexxars [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:17:39  <peter1138> roar
20:17:41  <peter1138> crumble ready
20:17:53  <peter1138> apple & rhubard, yum
20:19:11  *** kbrooks [] has joined #openttd
20:19:21  <kbrooks> hi.
20:19:45  <Belugas> vicious.. simply vicious :(
20:19:48  <Belugas> hey kbrooks
20:19:52  <peter1138> rhubarb, even
20:19:55  <peter1138> stupid keyboard
20:22:41  *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel
20:23:20  <peter1138> well, that was nice
20:23:27  <peter1138> there's another 4 servings left o_O
20:24:02  * Rubidium wonders whether DHL delivers in 4 game days and accepts OTTD's money ;)
20:24:42  <lolman> Rubidium, if only ;)
20:25:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9812 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9679): Obiwan prevented proper display of last transparency button.
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20:33:43  <Maedhros> time i was going
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20:45:33  *** mode/#openttd [+o _42_] by ChanServ
20:45:46  *** mode/#openttd [-o _42_] by ChanServ
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20:50:43  <Belugas> going home
20:50:44  <Belugas> buy
20:50:49  <Belugas> bye
20:50:59  <kaan> bye :)
20:51:42  <Wolf01> bye
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21:07:54  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:17:15  <peter1138> nini
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21:28:13  <kbrooks> 42!
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21:30:25  <Patrick> kbrooks: 1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000
21:30:57  <kbrooks> Patrick, that the meaning of life?
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21:31:07  <Patrick> yep, that's 42!
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21:58:21  <Digitalfox> I'm having a problem... Well my notebook is no longer abble to run my savegame ( too many trains, ships, airplanes, roadvehicles and stations spread ), the CPU is 100%.. So to try to avoid this next time, can i install openttd in my home server and run it like a multiplayer game, but just for me and make the CPU of my server run openttd, and everytime i want to play enter with notebook in...
21:58:23  <Digitalfox> ...server game?
21:59:09  <glx> client need the same CPU amount as server (they both do the same things)
21:59:09  <kaan> well, i dont know, but i dont think that would make much of a difference
21:59:32  <Patrick> no, doesn't work
21:59:35  <Patrick> you can delete all your ships
21:59:44  <Patrick> there was a thing about the ship pathfindering going v. slow
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22:00:09  <Digitalfox> ok.. Patrick: That's already disabled
22:00:41  <Digitalfox> I think i have my options already optimized, i'm not using any patchfinding or even sound and music
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22:01:25  <Patrick> I thought some pathfinders were more cpu friendly
22:01:38  <NLVF-Tealc> goodevening
22:01:50  <Digitalfox> Well my notebook is a P4 3.06 with bus 533... But with a map 1024*1024 and a lot of veghicles and stations, well... 100%
22:02:18  <Digitalfox> My Desktop P4 3.2 HT Bus 800 just uses 53
22:02:24  <Digitalfox> 53%
22:02:32  <Digitalfox> So right now i can only play in desktop
22:02:36  <Patrick> looks like you bought at the wrong time :)
22:02:45  <Patrick> go to someone's castoff amd64
22:03:05  <Patrick> play with a smaller windows.
22:03:11  <Patrick> that sounds crazy but it might help
22:03:17  <Patrick> (smaller window)
22:03:24  <Patrick> are you running screen maximised in all cases?
22:03:29  <Digitalfox> Well the notebook runs at 1280*800 windows mode
22:03:50  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:03:56  <Digitalfox> I mean like a window maximez, not full screen
22:04:19  <Digitalfox> The desktop the same but at 1280*1024
22:07:02  <Digitalfox> So the CPU used in server and client is the same, theres no gain in the client by having a server running the server mode?
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22:09:52  <Patrick> no.
22:10:07  <Patrick> all that happens in network games is that everything gets synchronised
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22:14:37  <Digitalfox> ok, thanks for answering my question ;)
22:15:32  <RobertGrammig> i once got a page in the wiki that showed time sensitivity of cargo types but cant find it now someone got it?
22:15:43  <Rubidium> network games use slightly more CPU with YAPF than SP games
22:16:17  <Rubidium> Patrick: try turning off NPF and YAPF for ships to speed up your game
22:16:22  <Rubidium> and the AI
22:16:36  <Rubidium> and do not enable improved loading and gradual loading at the same time
22:16:55  <Patrick> it's not me who wants help
22:16:57  <Patrick> ask digitlafox
22:17:17  <Rubidium> ;)
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22:17:27  <Rubidium> s/Patrick/Digitalfox/
22:19:02  <Digitalfox> Thank you Rubidium, well NPF and YAPF are off.. AI is also disabled, and improved loading agradual loading is disabled also :)
22:19:15  <Digitalfox> *and gradual
22:19:36  <Rubidium> what version are we speaking about by the way?
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22:19:53  <Digitalfox> nightly 9552
22:20:04  <Digitalfox> The last before newgrf change in patch
22:20:58  <Digitalfox> Since i use a USB pen or flash drive", it gives diferent letter to the USB, so i still use this build
22:21:29  <Digitalfox> Oh and windows version :)
22:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> what was the reasonig behind the absolute paths anyway?
22:21:49  <Rubidium> can I assume you didn't compile it yourself?
22:22:53  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: preparations for 'multiple' paths, i.e. scanning home directory, shared user directory and installation directory for GRFs etc.
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22:23:23  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: It's an oficial night build :)
22:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it should really be possible to use relative paths...
22:24:17  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: the problem is relative to what?
22:24:37  <Rubidium> working directory? home directory? directory where the application is in?
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22:25:01  <Rubidium> *directory where the binary is in
22:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever would help with the varying drive letters thing
22:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> so probably working directory (which should default to the binary dir)
22:25:46  <Digitalfox> My problem is that i have openttd in my USB pen.. And i use it in some PC's, and the letter changes like, k:\openttdd, on another h\:openttd.. So the newgrf pach in config file gives error of not finding the newgrf
22:25:46  <Rubidium> but it doesn't...
22:26:01  <Rubidium> working directory is not per definition the directory where the binary is in
22:26:30  <Rubidium> neither is the directory where the binary is in of any use when that's /usr/bin and the data is in /usr/share/data/games/openttd/
22:26:45  <Rubidium> and some other grfs are in ~/.openttd/data/mygrf
22:26:47  <Digitalfox> If it worked like this in config file, like \data or \negrf and not searching before it woruld work, but this way is complicated...
22:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but in windows, if you click on the application, the working directory gets set automatically
22:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i realise it will not be a complete solution
22:28:04  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: that would mean windows users CANNOT place their data files in $HOME/openttd when they have installed it in $PROGRAMFILES/openttd
22:28:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> why? you can easily divide absolute paths from relative paths
22:29:10  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: Could there some kind of asking question when starting openttd to select the patch of newgrf, this option would be cativated in options menu..
22:30:10  <Rubidium> newgrf data and non-newgrf data directories are not decoupled
22:30:56  <HMage> why not specify search directories in config files?
22:31:01  <HMage> default is .
22:31:06  <HMage> or data
22:31:19  <HMage> and keep paths relative
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22:31:42  <Rubidium> HMage: does not work in both OSX and linux variants
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22:31:54  <HMage> Rubidium: but it did in quake 3
22:32:01  <HMage> quake1, quake2, etc
22:32:44  <Rubidium> maybe it works for user data, but for OSX when starting a binary by double clicking '.' equals '/'
22:33:05  <HMage> Rubidium: the default is hardcoded, which means it can be platform-specific
22:33:06  <Rubidium> anyway, we have also installed 'data' which is *also* in the data directory
22:33:35  <HMage> replace '.' with 'current directory symbol for that platform'
22:33:51  <glx> openttd.cfg contains only absolute path for windows
22:34:03  <NLVF-Tealc> Hello
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22:34:21  <Rubidium> HMage: for OSX '/' is the current working directory in some cases
22:34:48  <NLVF-Tealc> Is it possible to run openttd from an usb-stick?
22:34:59  <HMage> Rubidium: details, details. I am trying to tell the idea that there's no need to write whole absolute path for each newgrf.
22:35:07  <glx> NLVF-Tealc: yes ut is
22:35:36  <Rubidium> but it's basically a 'windows' bug that is stores the full path
22:35:41  <HMage> NLVF-Tealc: but you'll have to specify newgrfs anew each time you move openttd from place to place (or put it on different systems)
22:35:55  <Rubidium> because on my system it's still relative
22:36:12  * glx goes look the source about that :)
22:36:41  <Rubidium> NLVF-Tealc: what HMage tells you only applies when you play nightlies under Windows
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22:37:31  <HMage> NLVF-Tealc: right, sorry.
22:38:03  <NLVF-Tealc> OK Then I will try to play it on my work :-)
22:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: what about relative to the same dir, that contains openttd.cfg?
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22:38:31  <Rubidium> so $HOME/openttd/ ?
22:39:03  <Rubidium> that fails horribly when openttd is installed in %PROGRAM_FILES%/OpenTTD/
22:39:07  <NLVF-Tealc> An other question. When I try to play online I see some chatmesseges but I dont know how to respond
22:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> why?
22:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> you know the location of openttd.cfg if you read it, from that point on it is not even platform specific
22:40:22  <Rubidium> openttd.cfg in your home directory and only using relative paths does not find the data in programfiles
22:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> not "only"
22:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i see no reason to forbid absolute paths
22:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the files in data/ should be handled differently than newgrfs anyway
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22:45:07  <Rubidium> but the whole issue currently rather is the fact that the windows port thinks it's necessary to prepend the whole current working directory before the path
22:47:06  <HMage> yup
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23:08:20  <kaan> im going to bed, night all
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