Log for #openttd on 17th June 2007:
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00:15:58  <SmatZ> hello
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01:01:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10172 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp:
01:01:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(r10127): Wrong evaluation order on variable 0x41 for industry tile.
01:01:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The industry's xy (northernmost tile) should be checked against the relative tile, not the other way around.
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02:06:29  <SmatZ> gn
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03:17:39  <Caemyr> the signal and train logic is so quirky
03:17:50  <Caemyr> simple station, one track
03:18:11  <Caemyr> depot from one side,
03:18:23  <Caemyr> the other - track to second city
03:19:01  <Caemyr> simple two way signal at the track leading from/to depot
03:19:37  <Caemyr> two trains on this track, with two side parts for passing
03:19:52  <Caemyr> one train is at depot, other at the station
03:20:21  <Caemyr> the one leaving from depot will not wait at the signal till the station`s empty, but is returning to depot till the other train leaves
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04:10:47  <|Gekkko|> is ther going to be a subway system implemented?
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05:45:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10173 /trunk/src/lang/piglatin.txt: -Add: Translations: added new language "Pig Latin". Already "pre-translated", only needs checking. Idea of Piglatin language was from Adam M-W
05:46:26  <Noldo> wtf!
05:47:56  <MiHaMeK> hmm, plural forms are bad
05:52:17  <MiHaMeK> no problem, translator will fix it :)
05:52:35  <hylje> when do we get hacker translation?
05:52:48  <hylje> or klingon?
05:53:04  <Noldo> or sindar
05:53:23  <hylje> elvish?!
05:53:54  <MiHaMeK> hylje: go ahead :)
05:54:24  <MiHaMeK> hylje: i even thinking on a script kiddie 'translation' :-D
05:54:35  <hylje> hacker translation would be a bunch of sed arguments
05:54:40  <MiHaMeK> lol
05:54:46  <hylje> s/ck/x/ s/o/0/
05:54:48  <hylje> etc
05:55:17  <hylje> silly translations are great.
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06:13:53  <Sacro> wtf?
06:13:57  <Sacro> pig-latin ttd?
06:13:59  <Sacro> how cool
06:16:22  <hylje> why can't i clone trains from station train list
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06:19:07  <Sacro> MiHaMeK: how about converting the town name generator as well
06:20:05  <MiHaMeK> Sacro: hmm
06:20:28  <MiHaMeK> Sacro: reasonable idea
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06:51:30  <Gekko> will there be subways in openttd?
06:51:38  <hylje> eventually
06:51:46  <hylje> but we need new map array for that
06:51:53  <hylje> or something else allowing arbitrary tunnels
06:51:55  <Gekko> and this is in the process
06:51:56  <Gekko> isnt it
06:52:07  <Gekko> "yes" good.
06:52:08  <hylje> not really
06:52:08  <Gekko> lol
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06:58:29  <Gekko> and why don't I have electric rail in 1992?
06:58:37  <Gekko> using the release of 0.5.2?
06:58:45  <Gekko> no it is not disabled via the patch
06:59:09  <hylje> do you have electric vehicles?
06:59:13  <Gekko> nope.
06:59:16  <Gekko> wait
06:59:20  <Gekko> what exactly do you mean
06:59:24  <Gekko> do I have them built
06:59:25  <hylje> electric locomotives
06:59:29  <hylje> buildable
06:59:33  <Gekko> im on the arctic map
06:59:35  <Gekko> and no
06:59:40  <hylje> then its working as intended
06:59:43  <Gekko> they arent available
06:59:56  <Gekko> I didnt disable them though
06:59:57  <hylje> neither subarctic or desert have electric conventional trains
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07:00:03  <Gekko> oh.
07:00:05  <hylje> and thus no electrified rail is available
07:00:05  <Gekko> why?
07:00:11  <hylje> the default grf
07:00:17  <Gekko> yes but why
07:00:17  <Wolf01> hello
07:00:18  <Gekko> lol
07:00:32  <hylje> it just is
07:00:35  <hylje> there is no why
07:00:38  <hylje> qed
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07:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <Caemyr> the one leaving from depot will not wait at the signal till the station`s empty, but is returning to depot till the other train leaves <- make the 2-way signal a pre-signal exit (2x Ctrl-Click with signal tool))
07:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> then the train will wait inside the depot
07:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> another option: leave one tile between the signal and the station
07:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> then the train will not turn around immediately, because two engines are facing at the signal
07:21:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10174 /trunk/src/lang/piglatin.txt: -Fix: [Translations]: piglatin plural forms had some problem..
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07:24:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10175 /trunk/src/lang/piglatin.txt: -Fix: [Translations] Stupid me, {STRINGx} can only be used in english...
07:25:00  <Gekko> oi
07:25:06  <Gekko> what about those onroad bus stops
07:25:10  <Gekko> like on TTDPatch?
07:25:32  <Rubidium> yeah, what about them?
07:25:33  <hylje> we had them since forever
07:25:35  <hylje> :o
07:25:52  <MiHaMeK> yes, piglatin no longer contain errors :)
07:26:13  <MiHaMeK> could someone try that out? :)
07:27:09  <Gekko> they arent on mine?
07:27:31  <Gekko> hylje: how do I enable them?
07:27:42  <hylje> use trunk?
07:27:53  <Gekko> I use the stable version
07:27:55  <Gekko> 0.5.2
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07:28:06  <hylje> stable doesnt get anything cool
07:28:17  <Gekko> >_>
07:28:18  <Gekko> why not.
07:28:23  <MiHaMeK> Total I18N status: 95% - 5541 bad strings out of 116883 strings (2997 strings / language)
07:28:34  <Gekko> and how can't bus stops be stable >_>
07:28:57  <Rubidium> because they were added after 0.5 was branched
07:28:57  <Gekko> better worded: how can bus stops be unstable.
07:29:09  <Gekko> so they'll be in what.
07:29:11  <Gekko> 0.6?
07:29:14  <Gekko> or 0.5.3?
07:29:45  <Rubidium> 0.6
07:29:56  <Gekko> gah
07:29:58  <Sionide> Gekko, use a nightly
07:29:59  <Rubidium> on the other hand, what version of TTDP were you using?
07:30:00  <Gekko> and that's how far off.
07:30:04  <Gekko> Sionide: I play online
07:30:12  <Gekko> Rubidium: can't recall.
07:30:28  <Sionide> Gekko, my server is r10166 :) got loads of on-road bus stops
07:30:29  <peter1138> i bet it wasn't their last stable ;)
07:30:43  <Rubidium> is it 2.0.0 or 2.5 beta/alpha something or 2.6 alpha something
07:30:51  <Gekko> is there r10166 compiled for Debian somewhere?
07:30:54  <Gekko> I can't compile it on this system
07:31:40  <Rubidium> apt-get install g++ zlib1g-dev libpng-dev
07:31:49  <Gekko> I'm not on Debian
07:31:52  <Gekko> but can use .deb's
07:31:53  <Gekko> ironic.,
07:32:15  <peter1138> :o
07:32:58  <peter1138> people will use crazy linux distributions...
07:33:06  <Gekko> Puppy Linux
07:33:09  <Gekko> craziest of them all.
07:33:41  <Rubidium> Gekko: can't you just use the i686 binary on ?
07:33:42  <Gekko> hmm
07:33:47  <Gekko> if i saved this multiplayer game
07:33:55  <Gekko> and loaded it in the nightly, would it work correctly?
07:34:18  <Rubidium> it should; if it doesn't it is a bug
07:34:31  <Gekko> excellent
07:34:33  <Gekko> trams! :O
07:34:39  <Gekko> why didnt I use the nightly before
07:34:42  * Gekko craps himself
07:45:51  <Wolf01> what is piglatin?
07:46:06  <MiHaMeK> Igpay atinlay
07:46:21  <MiHaMeK>
07:46:31  <Sionide> heh
07:46:43  <Wolf01> omg
07:46:49  <Sionide> Gekko, one extra level of zoom out...?
07:46:52  <Rubidium> English for to show how dyslectic people would read words (I guess)
07:46:59  <Gekko> lol
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07:52:25  <Wolf01> lolman might learn piglatin and start to talk with it :P ellohay!
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08:06:02  <peter1138> like sacro
08:07:46  <peter1138> :o
08:07:53  <peter1138> EwGRFnay
08:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Onay leasepay otnay... hm, this is really difficult for a non-native speaker
08:08:00  <peter1138> Itquay
08:08:18  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: s/for a non-native speaker//
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08:25:53  <Wolf01> Amegay Optionsway OMG!
08:25:56  <Wolf01> XDDD
08:32:40  <Wolf01> peter1138, do you think is possible to add the transparency save widget to trunk?
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08:41:24  <peter1138> the what?
08:42:19  <Wolf01> the widget to store the enabled transparencies
08:44:17  <Wolf01> if active you can toggle with X off|saved, else you toggle on|off
08:45:19  <Wolf01>
08:45:32  <Wolf01> give a look at it
08:47:06  <Wolf01> mmmh, i don't know why in main_gui.cpp it find always a new line at the EOF
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08:58:28  <Wolf01> eheh ellohay lolman!
08:58:42  <lolman> Ello Wolf01!
08:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think he got it :p
09:00:00  <Wolf01> (see what i can start) lolman, there is a new addition to OTTD, piglatin language, i think you must learn it
09:00:22  <lolman> Oh I got it, I just don't wanna use it ;)
09:05:46  <Wolf01> return 0;
09:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> kill -9 1
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09:09:56  <Wolf01> see what you did!
09:17:29  <lolman> Eddi|zuHause, killing init? O_o
09:17:45  <lolman> (And yes I'm 10 minutes late)
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09:47:40  <peter3141592653589793238462643> mmm, pie. i like pie.
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10:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 11833 is the number of the telephone information of the german telekom
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10:15:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10176 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10071): Deselect the currently selected order when clicking on an empty part of the orders window.
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10:15:51  <Chris82> good morning
10:15:58  <Chris82> I have a problem compiling r10170
10:16:11  <Chris82> it compiles fine but when I start a dedicated server I can't join
10:16:20  <Chris82> it just shows the server offline in the server list
10:16:26  <Chris82> do I need to enable networking somehow?
10:16:26  <Smoovious> 1 is the number every single other number is divisible by into a whole number
10:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause> !openttd port
10:16:35  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
10:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you got that?
10:17:04  <Chris82> r10116 works fine, but the newer versions all don't work as dedicated server :(
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10:17:48  <peter1138> they dpo
10:17:50  <peter1138> *do
10:17:53  <Smoovious> did you check to see if ottd is actually listening on the ports?
10:17:54  <peter1138> maybe not for you, but they work
10:18:19  <peter1138> i can see a whole three right now
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10:19:35  <ln-> may i suggest something?
10:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
10:19:52  <ln-> damn.
10:20:47  <mikegrb> heh
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10:24:26  <ln-> what was the preferred rand()-style function to use?
10:24:29  <ln-> or is rand() ok?
10:24:40  <peter1138> depends where it is
10:24:52  <peter1138> command or interface?
10:24:56  <ln-> e.g. train_cmd.cpp
10:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a multiplayer-safe random and a multiplayer-unsafe "interactive random" function
10:28:46  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the "safe" random is unsafe if used incorrectly
10:28:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
10:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> one is used in commands, and the other in interface
10:30:05  <ln-> poll: who thinks "passanger" is the correct way to spell "passenger"?
10:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably better to say "multiplayer-(un)synchronised"
10:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> poll: negative
10:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> only if they are actually "angry" :)
10:31:16  <ln-> ok, then someone please apply this patch:
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10:42:24  <ln-> anyone?
10:44:12  <Eddi|zuHause> minimum waiting time for user patches is 6 months, don't you know'?
10:44:40  <ln-> i know.
10:45:08  <ln-> although i got my comment-only "then->than" patch accepted surprisingly fast.
10:45:45  <stillunknown> Wow, i always thought you could have patches applied within 180 days.
10:47:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10177 /trunk/src/ (ai/trolly/trolly.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Passengers has one A and two Es (ln)
10:47:53  <peter1138> heh
10:47:57  <peter1138> "eachothers" :o
10:48:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you spelt his name wrong :)
10:48:30  <blathijs> ln-: it's passenger, not passanger (unless you mean something entirely different, of course) :-)
10:49:10  <hylje> completely different
10:49:32  <Smoovious> hmm... computer players in multiplayer don't resume under the AI on loaded savegames...
10:50:14  <Smoovious> er
10:50:16  <Smoovious> in trunk
10:50:18  <Smoovious> :P
10:50:24  <stillunknown> AI in multiplayer does not default to on iirc.
10:50:55  <Smoovious> stillunknown... yes, I'm aware of that... they are turned on in the settings
10:51:19  <Smoovious> guessing that there wasn't a bit set in the savegame that it was an AI company
10:52:22  <Smoovious> dunno if the AI branch is showing the same behavior or not
10:54:59  <Smoovious> k... nvm the guess... it looks like it iss in the experimental AI... turned it off, left the old AI on, and it is doing something...
10:55:10  <Smoovious> anyone know who was doing the new AI in trunk?
10:55:57  <Smoovious> Truelight  it looks like
10:56:41  <ln->
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11:02:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10178 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Don't deactivate newgrf files when skipping the rest of the file during the initialisation stage.
11:04:30  <skidd13> Any dev comments to FS#856?
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11:07:30  <Maedhros> what's the advantage of doing it that way?
11:07:46  <Smoovious> cuz its dynamic!
11:08:35  <Maedhros> heh
11:14:52  <skidd13> extendability, readability
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11:23:29  <TheJosh> did i just see "A    src/lang/piglatin.txt" correctly?
11:23:41  <Maedhros> mmhmm
11:24:15  <OwenS> O_o
11:24:17  <TheJosh> that is the funnyest thing I have ever seen
11:24:26  <TheJosh> not quite, but close
11:24:34  <hylje> yes
11:24:35  <hylje> its true
11:24:49  <TheJosh> ha ha ha ha ha!
11:24:56  <OwenS> ip-pay atin-lay is in =P
11:25:03  <OwenS> ig-pay even
11:25:25  <TheJosh> ahway ahway ahway ahway ahway!
11:26:53  <TheJosh> one bug though. pig-latin is very large textually, and the 'onfigurecay atchespay' (configure patches) window has text floating outside the window
11:27:10  <OwenS> heh
11:28:06  <TheJosh> simmilar problems in a few other places (buttons mainly)
11:28:16  <TheJosh> i think im going to have to leave my game in piglatin
11:28:57  <TheJosh> while were on the subject of languages, is it very hard to make a new town name set? i would like to make an 'Australian Town Names' set\
11:30:21  <Rubidium> action F?
11:30:32  <TheJosh> huh?
11:30:48  <OwenS> NewGRF Action F I beleive he means
11:30:50  <Rubidium> newgrf stuff
11:31:13  <TheJosh> does NewGRF cover town names? i just want one thats built-in, like all the other town name languages
11:32:27  <ln-> look at src/namegen.cpp
11:33:00  <OwenS> Hmm... How would I execute a command on all clients just before a person connects?
11:33:25  <TheJosh> isnt there scripts you can setup in the scripts/ directory?
11:33:25  <Rubidium> OwenS: what kind of command?
11:33:38  <OwenS> One which destroys all of the Squirrel VMs
11:33:57  <TheJosh> opps
11:34:00  <TheJosh> my bad
11:34:17  <Rubidium> why would you want to do that?
11:34:53  <OwenS> Rubidium: Because otherwise someone doing "state=last;last=exits_free" for example would desync all new clients
11:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: shouldn't the VM states be saved, rather?
11:37:24  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Squirrel VMs are full of pointers...
11:37:28  <Rubidium> in which scenario would they need to have a "state" between game ticks?
11:37:46  <OwenS> Rubidium: I can't stop them unless I destroy and recreate the VM every time
11:38:37  <TheJosh> i have worked out the town names...expect to see "Wagga Wagga" some time soon!
11:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i am not talking about a technical implementation...
11:39:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i am saying you can't expect people to write "multiplayer safe" scripts
11:39:31  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Exactly. So I don't
11:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but why discard information that you already have?
11:40:36  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: So that "state=last;last=exits_free" doesn't desync people trying to connect
11:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: load balancing for example
11:41:50  <Rubidium> OwenS: then I would resort to tearing down the VM each tick, so it forces people to write proper mp safe code
11:42:21  <OwenS> Rubidium: Tearing it downs fast. I'm more concerned about creating one (Think about 1 million CPU cycles)
11:42:23  <OwenS> at least
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11:42:59  <OwenS> And theres a VM for every signal
11:43:07  <Chris82> Hi again, I get a weird error message when I run openttd.exe -D on r10178
11:43:22  <Chris82> Error! Couldn't load the renderer 'null' the selected blitter depends on
11:43:30  <Chris82> what does that mean?
11:43:51  <hylje> null rendere is broken, heh
11:43:57  <Chris82> I get this error for any version ~>10120
11:44:05  <Rubidium> OwenS: I would just use one VM for all signals, otherwise you've got thousands of VMs
11:44:16  <OwenS> Rubidium: Only one per programmable signal
11:44:28  <Rubidium> well, people will program lots of signals I guess
11:44:50  <Chris82> hylje: Any idea how to fix this?
11:44:52  <OwenS> Rubidium: I doubt most games will have more than 50
11:45:04  <OwenS> But, otherwise, it's possible for someone to interfere with someone elses
11:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> still there needs to be a way to save vm states... the AI certainly needs to do so, too
11:45:28  <Rubidium> that's why they should be stateless
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11:45:47  <Maedhros> Chris82: which operating system are you running?
11:45:58  <OwenS> Hmm.. 1 VM per player?
11:46:11  <Chris82> Windows Vista x86, Windows XP x86, Windows Server 2003 x64, everywhere the same issue
11:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 VM per player sounds good
11:46:16  <OwenS> Question is, where to tear it down?
11:46:33  <Maedhros> Chris82: self compiled, or downloaded from the nightly page?
11:46:42  <Rubidium> OwenS: not?
11:46:55  <Chris82> Downloaded from SVN URL with TortoiseSVN and compiled with Visual Studio
11:47:00  <OwenS> Rubidium: Huh?
11:47:07  <Chris82> r10116 works fine, but the latest versions don't
11:47:22  <Rubidium> just let the signals be a single functions without any global variables
11:47:31  <Maedhros> 10116 is probably before the null blitter got added
11:47:47  <Chris82> can you shortly explain what the null blitter is?
11:47:55  <Maedhros> it works fine here (linux), so i suspect something is a bit squiffy with the msvc project files
11:48:21  <Maedhros> it doesn't draw anything at all
11:48:48  <OwenS> Rubidium: AFAIK, Squirrel doesn't allow me to stop globals
11:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Chris82: previously, the game drew everything in a buffer, and the dedicated server just threw that buffer away, now it is not drawn at all
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11:49:36  <Smoovious> um... programmable signals? (sounds interesting)
11:49:43  <OwenS> Aha
11:49:55  <Chris82> Maedhros: Maybe a problem with DirectX ?
11:50:18  <Smoovious> or is it programming signals, and not railroad signals being talked about
11:50:57  <OwenS> Nope, ingame programmable signals
11:51:12  <Smoovious> ingame... so... railroad?
11:51:17  <OwenS> Yep
11:51:36  <Smoovious> ok... I'm still interested. :) is there a thread that discusses em?
11:51:53  <Chris82> Maedrhos: I just checked and the problem exists on any Windows version since r10121
11:52:01  <Chris82> All previous version work fine with the -D switch
11:52:50  <Maedhros> well yes, before 10121 there was no null blitter, so the dedicated server didn't try to use it :)
11:53:03  <Chris82> I have a fix
11:53:17  <Chris82> When I run "openttd.exe -D -b 8bpp-optimized" it works =)
11:53:35  <peter1138> hmm, null blitter/renderer breaks on win32 dedicated?
11:53:39  <Chris82> although I am not quite sure what's the result of this, but at least the dedicated server starts
11:53:45  <Chris82> yeah peter
11:54:07  <Chris82> but when I run the above line I think the null blitter is not used and it works with the latest trunk
11:54:54  <OwenS> Rubidium: So, where would I tear the VMs down?
11:55:32  <Rubidium> at the end of a game tick
11:55:34  <OwenS> Actually, no...
11:55:39  <OwenS> The biggest expense is parsing the code
11:55:55  <OwenS> That methods just gonna do that every frame multiple times...
11:57:51  <Hendikins> qfh: If a town has 0 people in it, how can my company have a rating from that town? :P
11:58:00  * Hendikins slaps nick completion
11:58:29  <Maedhros> terraforming? servicing industries (maybe)?
11:59:47  <Hendikins> Sure, I terraformed it down to zero people, but if there is nobody there then surely nobody can rate it :P
12:01:34  <skidd13> BUG: somehow I got temperate trees in tropic. (latest trunk)
12:01:50  <Smoovious> the firm that keeps track of, and evaluates, everyone's ratings, are based in a different town
12:03:06  <Maedhros> skidd13: i haven't... got a screenshot? and are you using any grfs that might be replacing trees?
12:03:40  <Hendikins> Smoovious: So if I bulldoze every town to zero, I'm unrated? :P
12:04:23  <Chris82> I added a bug report for the Null blitter error :) for the time being I just use the addition switches
12:04:30  <skidd13> Maedhros: stolen trees, but they worked fine before. Because of them I noticed it. :)
12:04:39  <OwenS> Rubidium: IMO, parsing the code again every time the signal needs to change state is too slow. As such, the only option is the way I have it now and everyone destroys their Squirrel VM when someone connects
12:06:30  <Maedhros> skidd13: before when? i'm also using stolen trees and they aren't showing up in tropic :)
12:06:47  <Smoovious> Hendikins... no... the  down the firm is based in,  is located about 50-60 squares to the NW of the northernmost corner of the map, in another region... you're not licensed to work there so you don't have a map that covers them
12:07:03  <Maedhros> hmm, bugger. the dbsetxl isn't loading any more
12:07:16  <Smoovious> down=town
12:07:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean your last commit broke it?
12:08:17  <Maedhros> yup, looks like it
12:08:47  <skidd13> Maedhros: screenie:
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12:11:24  <Chris82> @Maedhros: I am using the DBSETXL with 10178 right now, is there a newer version already?
12:12:26  <Maedhros> no... it's working again now, and i haven't changed anything. strange :/
12:12:48  <peter1138> :o
12:13:04  <Chris82> hmm I only noticed that the planeset doesn't work with the latest trunk, but the aviator set works
12:15:28  <skidd13> Maedhros: I should say that 'I use the stolen trees as static newgrf.
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12:16:37  <Rubidium> OwenS: that's going to result in bug reports that their signal code doesn't work when somebody joins
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12:17:09  <Maedhros> skidd13: so do i, but they're still not showing up. :) have you got a savegame?
12:17:14  <OwenS> Rubidium: Hmm... Does Squirrel support creating a COW clone VM?
12:17:53  <skidd13> I load the coop sandbox savegame #6
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12:27:17  <peter1138> skidd13: yes
12:27:24  <peter1138> skidd13: they are NOT temperate trees
12:27:28  <peter1138> they are SAC's trees
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12:28:46  <eekee> SAC?
12:28:59  <OwenS> eekee: SAC created the Stolen Trees GRF
12:29:05  <eekee> ah ^^
12:30:39  <skidd13> I had them only in temperate before (last week)
12:30:52  <OwenS> skidd13: No, some always appear in subtropics
12:31:00  <Smoovious> did you change or reset a parameter on the GRF?
12:31:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10179 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
12:31:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: spritecache wasn't in source.list, thus wasn't in the MSVC project files.
12:31:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Pig Latin wasn't in the MSVC project files.
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12:34:34  <skidd13> never noticed that some appeared in tropic.
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12:41:29  <eekee> hmm, r10145 is segfaulting every time I try to get a particular roadveh to move, no matter what pathfinder is in use
12:43:30  <Rubidium> and r10179?
12:44:01  <eekee> getting & compiling
12:50:13  <eekee> hmm, I'll have to watch for segfaulting when the truck moves naturally too
12:50:41  <peter1138> "naturally"?
12:51:10  <eekee> normally
12:52:24  <eekee> it's at a truck depot on full load. If I go to it's orders window & press skip, moments later there's a segfault. when I left it, there was also a segfault around the time it probably would have moved anyway. I'll need to keep an eye on it
12:52:29  <Thomas[NL]> There is only one company colour in r10178 :/ ?
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12:56:43  <TheJosh> 3 colours in a game im playing
12:57:04  <TheJosh> and all the colours are avaliable for me to change to
12:57:05  <eekee> r10179 crashed on skip
12:58:04  <TheJosh> ill test it
12:59:38  <TheJosh> worksforme
13:00:09  <TheJosh> is the truck in the depo full loading when you click 'skip'?
13:00:34  <eekee> and segfaulted on normal start when it gets a full load too
13:00:39  <eekee> TheJosh: yep
13:00:50  <TheJosh> what truck is it?
13:00:58  <TheJosh> year? NewGRFs?
13:01:01  <eekee> rubber truck. Sec...
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13:01:27  <TheJosh> sec?
13:01:36  <eekee> no newgrfs. Well, 2 have been added, serbian tram & a refittable tram I made, but neither has been used.
13:01:48  <eekee> sec == second I was going to look at the model
13:01:48  <TheJosh> modified source?
13:01:51  <ln-> when will we have something like this in ottd:
13:01:52  <eekee> nope]
13:01:52  <TheJosh> sorry
13:02:21  <Maedhros> ln-: when someone draws one...
13:02:39  <TheJosh> 10178?
13:03:05  <eekee> year is complex, it's a game I mostly played in 2005, left it in November, loaded up from that save game today. Back then the year wrapped so it says 2090 but should be 23rd or maybe 24th century
13:03:08  <ln-> Maedhros: it needs more than that, notice that the thing is not an engine.
13:03:29  <ln-> the engine is at the other end of the train, pushing it.
13:03:44  <TheJosh> shared or personal orders
13:04:10  <eekee> ahh! Truck model is listed as a Duro Djakovic 201, which I think should be a tram
13:04:31  <Maedhros> ln-: well, how am i supposed to notice that? :p
13:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: there was a "drive backwards" feature discussed previously
13:05:16  <eekee> Yep, the Serebian tram set replaces a couple of rubber trucks. Never had reason to notice that before
13:05:17  <ln-> Maedhros: either with your eyes or legs. there is no pantograph, for instance.
13:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you mean the wagons:
13:05:35  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: what was the result of discussion?
13:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, i did not follow it that closely
13:06:15  <Maedhros> pendolinos don't have the pantograph on the first engine either, but they have engines at both ends
13:06:40  <TheJosh> meh. now i know my loading indicators work for trucks
13:06:49  <eekee> I'll have to scrap the rubber trucks before loading the grf I guess. I was gonna scrap em anyway so no big deal
13:06:58  <eekee> heheh
13:07:37  <TheJosh> i htink ive killed all the bugs...
13:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> poor bugs :(
13:08:54  * eekee stomps on bugs! D: \o/
13:09:06  <Rubidium> @openttd bugs
13:09:07  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Open Bugs: 32; Not assigned: 18; Closed this week: 41; Opened this week: 23
13:09:15  <Rubidium> TheJosh: there are still 32 left :D
13:09:26  <TheJosh> i was talking about bugs in my patch
13:10:24  <TheJosh> i shoudl also remove the debugging messages...1 message for every loading indicator creation, updation and removal
13:10:44  <TheJosh> 17 trains, 66 road veichles, 2 aircraft, 10 ships
13:11:16  <TheJosh> not a big game but still generateing a lot of should see Pile
13:12:02  <TheJosh> im off
13:12:03  <TheJosh> cya all
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13:12:40  <Thomas[NL]> 2CC isn't a patch setting is it?
13:12:58  <Maedhros> nope, but you need to have loaded a vehicle set that supports it
13:13:31  <Thomas[NL]> I use UKRS
13:14:08  <Thomas[NL]> which supports it if I'm not mistaking
13:14:20  <Maedhros> it does
13:15:21  <Maedhros> well, i get the 2cc options with ukrs in r10178...
13:16:00  <Thomas[NL]> :S
13:17:25  <Thomas[NL]> If i load an 2cc save-game i get this error: Error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 349 of /home/thomas/openttd/src/texteff.cpp
13:17:25  <Thomas[NL]> openttd: /home/thomas/openttd/src/openttd.cpp:107: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
13:18:29  <Rubidium> savegame saved with 16x zoom I guess
13:19:11  <Thomas[NL]> possible
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13:20:11  <Thomas[NL]> hm seems some newgrf is causing it
13:21:28  <Thomas[NL]> hirotrams.grf disables it if yu put it after ukrs
13:22:46  <eekee> I'm glad to see the train lost messages are back to reasonable standards, I've loaded that old save game of mine before, & could hardly play it for lost messages, lol
13:26:29  <Rubidium> Thomas[NL]: the following should solve the 2cc issue
13:26:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10180 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10167): do not reset the 2cc loaded feature setting when a (later) newgrf does not have 2cc.
13:26:55  <Thomas[NL]> ok grat Rubidium!
13:27:01  <Thomas[NL]> *great
13:28:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10181 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r10093): clamp the zoom level so it won't try to use a wrong zoom level when loading an old savegame.
13:28:03  <Rubidium> and this the issue with that savegame that couldn't be loaded
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13:28:44  <Thomas[NL]> thank you :)
13:29:15  <peter1138> heh
13:31:55  <minime> peter1138: that roadstop patch is now in TTDP and I posted the changes to OTTD + modified GRF on the forums
13:32:11  <minime> just to let you know, since you suggested I do the changes
13:32:43  <peter1138> yeah
13:32:44  <peter1138> thanks
13:32:54  <minime> np
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13:43:33  <Wolf01> peter1138, the transparency save widget was interesting? it may need some more work?
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13:49:57  <Wolf01> is ottd going to support one or more zoom_in?
13:50:25  <peter1138> no
13:50:40  <peter1138> mine won't anyway
13:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> not for a long time, probably...
13:50:58  <eekee> why not when it supports zoom out? *confuzled*
13:51:21  <Rubidium> because zoom-in needs to fabricate pixels out of thin air
13:51:38  <Wolf01> the right question should be: why not when it supports 32bpp now?
13:51:43  <peter1138> and because the internal game unit wouldn't allow smooth movement
13:51:58  <peter1138> what does 32bpp have to do with it?
13:52:06  <eekee> I'd do a cheap & dirty duplicate pixels. I also happen to like old sprite art, lol
13:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: interpolation
13:53:09  <Rubidium> yeah, too bad sprites are 63x31 and need to be 127x63. Please write a fast interpolation for that that doesn't use floating point
13:53:43  <Wolf01> and using a system like the 32bpp branch?
13:53:44  <Wolf01>
13:54:08  <peter1138> that's just silly
13:54:15  <Rubidium> Wolf01: maybe you haven't noticed that it's glitchy in all and every direction
13:54:32  <Wolf01> yes a little
13:54:48  <Wolf01> trees in the middle of the road etc.. but who cares?
13:55:18  <Rubidium> everybody but you
13:55:26  <eekee> quite, lol
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13:57:13  <Wolf01> yes it looks bad with nice graphics close to the 8bpp, something that i hate, but if all the graphics will be of the same kind maybe...
13:58:33  <peter1138> it's too large
13:58:37  <peter1138> way too large
13:58:50  <eekee> yeah
13:59:12  <Rubidium> and busses "jumping" 16 pixels isn't nice either
13:59:34  <eekee> argh!
13:59:44  <hylje> transition!
13:59:50  * Maedhros wonders how bad ships would look
14:00:14  <hylje> peter1138: maybe it's just zoomed so close
14:00:19  <Wolf01> oh, now i understand
14:00:39  <eekee> heh, if I didn't have a headache I'd be delving into the gfx code now, & not to do anything complex either. :D Actually, if I didn't have a headache I'd still be wasting my time in SL, but there you go
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14:21:11  <SmatZ> at only last few changes are displayed, can I browse older notes elsewhere?
14:22:35  <Rubidium> only with svn log (we had a trac, but trac was (and maybe still is) very broken on large repos with lots of accesses
14:23:12  <Maedhros> you can use gitweb, although it'll be a little behind sometimes...
14:23:34  <Rubidium> (up to 10 minutes or so)
14:26:23  <SmatZ> Rubidium: where is that svn log, only at #openttd.notice ?
14:26:32  <SmatZ> Maedhros:  thanks, it looks great :)
14:27:07  <Maedhros> np :)
14:30:42  <SmatZ> I found it (in release notes for 0.5.2 ) -  Fix: Planes made a 270 degree turn instead of a 90 degree turn on the southern runway of the intercontinental airport [FS#743] (r9725)
14:30:55  <SmatZ> at International airport, there is the same problem...
14:31:27  <SmatZ> sometimes when Concorde is landing, it slows down to 49kmh immediately, sometimes it breaks at whole runway...
14:31:32  <SmatZ> no breakdowns
14:31:39  <SmatZ> is that intended?
14:32:09  <Maedhros> no, but it's a known bug, i think
14:33:04  <SmatZ> ok then :) i couldn't find it at
14:33:58  * Maedhros wonders whether he can be arsed trying to make realistic acceleration for road vehicles
14:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause> do RV have a mass and power?
14:35:14  <Maedhros> not at the moment
14:35:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose they have a problem with TE ;)
14:35:29  <Maedhros> they don't have that, either ;)
14:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> well, trams might get some :)
14:36:13  <Maedhros> in fact, all they do have at the moment is a max speed, and a current speed that gets halved when turning corners or going up hills
14:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> town roads should have 50km/h limit
14:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. roads that are adjacent to a house
14:38:28  <Maedhros> they could, but it would make
14:38:38  <Maedhros> ...most buses useless, later in the game :)
14:38:45  <Maedhros> (stupid enter key)
14:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... you could introduce high speed roads, that would not have that limitations
14:39:23  <eekee> Is the main window code in viewport.cpp?
14:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or generally straight roads that have another straight road adjacent
14:40:46  <Maedhros> eekee: it's probably in main_gui.cpp, but that depends on exactly which bit you want :)
14:40:53  <eekee> Maedhros: ty :)
14:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> (would mean they still have to slow down on crossings)
14:41:22  <Maedhros> heh, highways!
14:41:34  <eekee> zoom code, specifically the tile zoom
14:41:51  <eekee> I'll prolly find it eventually
14:42:14  <Maedhros> ah, that stuff probably *is* in viewport.cpp
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14:42:21  <eekee> righty, ty :)
14:42:38  <SmatZ> you could introduce gas stations to make the game more realistic :-D
14:43:00  <Eddi|zuHause> here, 4-lane roads within cities can go up to 80km/h, but all crossings with traffic lights are limited to 70km/h
14:44:52  <Maedhros> there aren't really any rules like that here
14:45:09  <Maedhros> villages tend to be 30mph, unless they're on a main road, in which case they can be up to 60mph
14:45:42  <Maedhros> residential parts of towns can be 20mph, but main roads in towns can be up to 60mph, or 70mph if they're dual carriageways
14:45:54  <Maedhros> it's usually 30 or 40mph though
14:46:52  <eekee> here anything with street lights is 30mph unless there's little repeater signs. Anything without is 60mph if not dual carrigeway, 70mph if d/c; again unless repeaters. They've recently brought the speed limits down all over the country though, lots of extra signs
14:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> sure i mean with special speed signs...
14:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen 100km/h roads within city limits... usually they have a "city exit" sign on the onramp
14:53:08  <eekee> yeah
14:53:59  <SmatZ> we have 50kmh city limits, 80kmh limit for highways/speedways in city, 90 outside the city, 130 outside city highways/speedways
14:54:18  <SmatZ> limit can be increased by up to 30 kmh by a sign
14:54:41  <SmatZ> but i have not seen any speed limit incease outside the city...
14:55:07  <SmatZ> speedway = 4 lane road
14:55:54  <SmatZ> only some 4-lane road are speedways ... they are just some kind of worse highways :)
14:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> autobahn is never within city limits, and speed is unlimited unless otherwise mentioned (for cars < 3,5t)
14:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> rules for autobahn also apply to similar roads that are not declared as autobahn
14:57:28  <SmatZ> Deutschland has very liberal road rules :)
14:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. 4 lanes and a barrier in the middle
14:58:19  <Zr40> what's with the german names? :)
15:02:09  <SmatZ> I really dislike the 0.0 limit for alcohol... not because I would like to drive drunk, but because sometimes one cannot be sure if he doesn't have like 0.1 :(
15:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> they're names... neither "highway" (= 'Hochstraße') nor "speedway" (= 'Schnellstraße') i consider proper translations
15:02:31  <Smoovious> here the max is 0.08
15:02:52  <SmatZ> 0.08 % ?
15:03:09  <Smoovious> yeah... 0.1 is pretty drun
15:03:11  <Smoovious> k
15:03:19  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause: well, german *words* just look odd in non-german languages :) but if it's a name, capitalize the first letter :)
15:03:25  <SmatZ> afaik, in Britain, the is 0.08 %, 0.05 in Germany, Austria and many other countries
15:03:43  <SmatZ> but we have 0...  I was talking about 0.1 prom, 0.01%
15:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Zr40: i (almost) never capitalise in IRC
15:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i consider it spoken language...
15:04:02  <Smoovious> ah
15:04:05  <Zr40> yet, you capitalize IRC
15:04:17  <SmatZ> :)
15:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, abbreviations are an exception to the rule :)
15:05:02  <Smoovious> IRC = Internet Relay Chat... irc = infectious rectal chaffing
15:05:06  <SmatZ> :-D
15:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Zr40: additionally, they are technically not names in the sense of "John" or "Germany"
15:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and i have seen native english speakers use the word "autobahn"
15:08:53  <ln-> i.e. it's a noun, but not a proper noun.
15:09:04  <Zr40> have those native English speakers been to Germany, by any chance? :)
15:09:21  <Zr40> in*
15:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, but they were specifically referring to the german autobahn
15:10:39  <Zr40> but that's like saying 'North Sea' to refer to the North Sea
15:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and your point is?
15:11:59  <Zr40> 'Autobahn' refers to the German highways, not any highway
15:12:23  <Maedhros> english speakers would probably use "autobahn" because they don't know about german capitalisation rules ;)
15:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and i was specifically talking about germany
15:13:32  <ln-> because this is an english channel, Eddi|zuHause should change his nick to Eddy|toHouse
15:13:36  <Zr40> I think I used the wrong context.
15:13:52  <Zr40> ln-: nicks aren't bound to channels
15:14:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: actually it is "at home"
15:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "to home" would be "nach Hause"
15:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and this is the only channel i am in on this network :)
15:15:17  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: i know, but let's be as literal as possible even if meanings get wrong. :)
15:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what would be a literal translation of "ln-" then?
15:17:13  <ln-> maybe ll- or lg- or ...
15:17:20  <Bjarni> line next-- (look at previous line)
15:17:53  <Bjarni> so ln- is an infinitive loop aka an unwanted behaviour :P
15:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> infinite != infinitive
15:18:36  * Bjarni causes some more at the spelling tool
15:18:44  <Bjarni> it acts up once in a while :(
15:18:55  <peter1138> causes?
15:18:58  <hylje> ifinitive loop D:
15:19:01  <peter1138> is not curses :p
15:19:21  <Bjarni> sez ryiob nvk< busc
15:19:22  <SmatZ> online dictionary - zu Hause, im Haus, daheim, zu Haus, heim
15:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, right, curses... i already wondered...
15:19:51  * Bjarni shuts up
15:20:40  <Bjarni> that's a sure way not to make mistakes
15:22:05  <ln-> i think bjarni is right now thinking about misspelled words.
15:22:24  * Bjarni just rebooted his keyboard
15:22:29  <Bjarni> or whatever you would call it
15:22:38  <Bjarni> the y key stopped working
15:22:50  <Bjarni> unplugging it and plugging it in again fixed it
15:23:01  <Bjarni> wtf happened???
15:23:02  <ln-> tangentbord
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15:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause> on a proper keyboard, it would have been the z key :)
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15:43:54  <Smoovious> doncha just hate when a server you wanna play on is using GRF's that you can't download anymore?
15:44:06  <peter1138> heh
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15:44:33  <Smoovious> or multiple versions are in t he wild, all with the same version #, or no version # at all?
15:44:38  <kaan> hello all
15:44:47  * Smoovious shrug.
15:45:48  <Rubidium> Smoovious: in OTTD MP you'll now at least know they aren't compatible instead of creating a desync fest
15:46:31  <Smoovious> yeah... doesn't help trying to keep multiple versions of GRF's availlable tho...
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15:49:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10182 /trunk/ (25 files in 5 dirs):
15:49:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rewrite most part of the file loading/searching to be more flexible.
15:49:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: add support for personal directories on Windows.
15:49:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#153, FS#193, FS#502, FS#816, FS#854]: fix issues related to fixed names, fixed places of files/directories and application bundles.
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15:56:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10183 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r10182): some bashism sneaked in.
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16:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> <- why is there no 0.5.2?
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17:27:01  <Rubidium> because TrueBrain was lazy?
17:27:31  <peter1138> hmm?
17:27:35  <peter1138> ojh
17:27:36  <peter1138> oh
17:28:07  <hylje> :o
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17:39:39  <Wolf01> some questions: i want to make a landscape for toyland in 32bpp, can i use what colors i want or there is a limit? the transparency color is still the blue or can i use the alpha channel?
17:41:26  <peter1138> alpha is fully supported
17:41:53  <Wolf01> so cut out the background is sufficient?
17:41:56  <peter1138> but: don't use alpha on the edges of tiles that are on the ground
17:42:17  <peter1138> only for bits that are drawn on (like buildings)
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17:42:29  <peter1138> in fact, don't use any alpha on ground tiles :)
17:42:35  <Wolf01> ok
17:43:46  <hylje> Wolf01: TOYLAND?!
17:43:48  <hylje> sweet
17:43:53  <hylje> show it sum love!
17:44:09  <Wolf01> i want to make a lego landscape
17:44:29  <Wolf01> or better, a total conversion like mars landcape
17:44:32  <Wolf01> *scape
17:44:56  <hylje> :o
17:44:58  <hylje> legos
17:45:01  <hylje> lego trains
17:45:04  <peter1138> well make your mind up :)
17:45:05  <hylje> s/legos/lego/
17:45:22  <Wolf01> but now i'm undecided and i'm working only on the plain tile, i don't know if is better to have big studs or only pixel studs
17:46:15  <Wolf01> with big studs the tiles look better, but is like building with technic over duplo bricks
17:46:48  <hylje> :>
17:46:59  <kaan>  I think each tile should have 4 studs
17:47:08  <hylje> its duplo
17:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> probably better to have 4x4 studs
17:47:18  <hylje> huge
17:47:20  <Wolf01> i put 5 studs
17:47:24  <hylje> 5?!
17:47:25  <Noldo> Wolf01: make any kind of playable and free graphics and I'll love you for ever
17:47:26  <kaan> hehe
17:47:27  <hylje> whaaaaaaaat
17:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause> 5? what kind of lego is that supposed to be?
17:48:07  <Wolf01> eheh
17:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i still think 4x4 studs per tile is a good choice
17:50:45  <Smoovious> think the round  ones have 5 pegs...
17:50:53  <Smoovious> one in the center
17:51:01  <hylje> +-shaped
17:51:09  <Smoovious> but 4x4 makes more sense. :)
17:51:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the round ones are 2x2
17:51:20  <Smoovious> or if you want big blocks, do 1 peg per tile
17:51:28  <Smoovious> no, I mean the bigger one
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17:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i don't remember any bigger round lego tiles
17:54:10  <Wolf01> bigger round tiles are 2442, like a 4*4 without angle studs
17:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i had wheels from another kind of plastic block toy thing, but they were more like 6x6, with a stud missing on each edge
17:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> s/edge/corner
17:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, like that
17:55:57  <hylje> a landscape made out of round blocks would be most appropriate for toyland
17:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> tiles are still square
17:59:19  <hylje> exactly
17:59:36  <Smoovious> still tho, 2x2 per square  should be  good... 4x4 may be too much
17:59:43  <hylje> what about the slope tiles?
18:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the current toyland tiles are also 4x4, i believe
18:00:11  <Smoovious> step them  using those real thin tile that keep breaking when you try to pry em apart
18:00:22  <hylje> D:
18:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, slopes could be shaped like stairs
18:00:51  <Smoovious> llike, the  whole landscape, make into the sheet base-tile
18:01:31  <hylje> water is blue tiles :)
18:01:48  <hylje> ground is shades of green
18:02:07  <hylje> if possible, hills transition to white D:
18:02:14  <Wolf01> but then i need 4*4 tiles for slopes... they will look a step if i use 2*2
18:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> coast is a yellow row of small tiles, and the other steps are green
18:02:49  <Eddi|zuHause> always use 4x4 tiles
18:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> will definitely make it more consistent
18:10:34  *** Ailure [Gamefreak@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13:11  <Smoovious> that's the point to make em look like a step. :)
18:18:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10184 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): -Fix: remove empty strings that are clearly bad. WT2 shouldn't add them anymore.
18:19:31  <Wolf01>
18:19:36  <Wolf01> what do you think?
18:19:46  <Wolf01> is only a tryout
18:20:13  <peter1138> what's the yellow for?
18:20:22  <Wolf01> shore?
18:20:27  <peter1138> ah, it's a shore sprite
18:20:47  <Smoovious> might be doable
18:20:55  <Maedhros> heh, if you finish this i might actually play toyland :)
18:21:12  <peter1138> i think the bumps need to move South-East a bit
18:21:24  <Smoovious> maybe paste a few next to each other in your next sample?
18:21:31  <peter1138> pushed right up to the NW edge but there's loads of space at the SE edge
18:21:48  <Smoovious> well, the tile is sloped too
18:22:44  <Smoovious> it looks fine to me... adds to the sense of depth
18:22:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10185 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the bounding boxes of the drive through road stops a little larger so NewGRFs authors have more possibilities when replacing them (minime).
18:25:35  <Wolf01> updated, same file
18:26:37  <Wolf01> the edges are a little thick but i think i'll remove some of them
18:27:21  <Maedhros> why the horizontal lines? as far as i remember my lego sets never had them...
18:27:35  <Smoovious> yeah, that looks good... grid lines noticeably darker, but not obviously so... :)
18:28:08  <Smoovious> maybe it is a sheet of single-peg tiles glued together?
18:28:14  <Smoovious> :D
18:28:25  <Wolf01> yeah, i was trying to say that
18:29:00  <Smoovious> Maedhros has a point tho
18:29:07  <Wolf01> i think i'll remove the top edges
18:29:27  <OwenS> Wolf01: Interesting
18:30:01  <OwenS> May I suggest darkening the colours slightly, more in line with real (reflective) lego bricks?
18:30:24  <Smoovious> maybe lighten  up the grid lines within the tile a bit?
18:30:38  * Smoovious grins.
18:30:41  <Wolf01> yes, i'm a little blind, i can only see in 16 colors, so i need to find somebody who can tell me the right colours ;)
18:30:53  <hylje> Wolf01: oo, hence toyland?
18:31:06  <Smoovious> ahh
18:31:31  <OwenS> 16? Thats awfully binary
18:34:32  <Wolf01> ok, i think it looks better now
18:34:39  <Wolf01>
18:34:52  <peter1138> btw
18:35:05  <peter1138> don't use lego's name ;)
18:35:19  <peter1138> just use "brick" or something
18:35:22  <hylje> Anonymous Studded Blocks TTD
18:35:25  <Wolf01> i'll call it brickland climate
18:35:26  <peter1138> yes
18:35:28  <Smoovious> um... the game grid lines are too hard to see now... maybe darken them slightly/
18:35:38  <peter1138> that looks fine
18:35:50  <OwenS> Just a thought: You don't get 4x4 bricks...
18:35:54  <Wolf01> maybe i'll draw them darker than the step lines
18:36:02  <hylje> is it me or does the beach slope seem sharper than the grass slope?
18:36:12  <OwenS> Just you =P
18:36:15  <peter1138> Wolf01: here's a tip: put the half the borders on, but put them on all sides
18:36:20  <Smoovious> that's my thinking... makes eyeing out a route easier
18:36:36  <peter1138> so only the 'outer' pixel contains the darker edge pixel
18:36:36  <Wolf01> ok, i'll try
18:36:42  <Smoovious> sharper?
18:36:55  <Noldo> steeper
18:37:01  <peter1138> it will give you more central edge
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18:38:10  <Smoovious> dunno, looks ok... tho the 'beach' part makes me wanna think 'widget' when I look at it... like it has a blade on the end.
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18:38:49  <Smoovious> brb3min
18:39:39  <Smoovious> ib
18:50:32  <Smoovious> #*$#@)(&O#)&@)@O&!!!!!!!!!
18:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think the slope tiles are too much slope and too little step
18:51:11  <peter1138> hmm, yeah
18:51:17  <peter1138> the single line should be two
18:51:41  <Smoovious> just finish spending a couple game-years building a cross-map route for cargo, of around 800 tiles in length, and just as I finish and start buying the train, the indutry I'm going to drop off at announces closure... .....................................
18:52:17  <OwenS> Smoovious: fund new industry?
18:52:35  <Smoovious> can't afford it yet... only 1955...
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18:52:43  <OwenS> Smoovious: Aah
18:52:51  <Smoovious> this was supposed to be my money-train
18:53:04  <Smoovious> grrrr
18:53:20  <Smoovious> I swear, the game does this on purpose!
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18:56:01  <kaan> has anyone tinkered with using 7z instead of zlib?
18:57:07  <Maedhros> i don't think so
18:57:33  <kaan> hmm
18:57:40  <kaan> ill try it
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19:00:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10186 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix (FS#876): don't mess desktop when using alt-tab (win32)
19:01:28  <ln-> did the original game mess the desktop when using alt-tab?
19:01:57  <glx> can't remember
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19:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i mostly played TTO (DOS), and DOS games usually screw themselves up when using alt-tab
19:07:18  <peter1138> usually they only worked full screen
19:08:49  <kaan> does OTTD run on any 16 bit systems?
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19:11:41  <peter1138> no
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19:27:21  <kaan> good, thanks peter
19:30:36  <ln->
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19:31:32  <Rubidium> that first part of the url :)
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19:44:30  <peter1138> $ svn diff | wc 2365    8022   74748
19:44:40  <peter1138> pom te pom
19:46:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10187 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: don't do a 270 degree turn on the international airport when a 90 degree turn is enough.
19:50:01  <orudge> peter1138: pommy
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20:09:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10188 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio.h openttd.cpp saveload.cpp):
20:09:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make it a little easier to load a savegame from the console:
20:09:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -g <absolute path>
20:09:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -g <relative path from current working directory>
20:09:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -g <relative path from within the savegame directory>
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20:14:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10189 /trunk/projects/generate:
20:14:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: added a safety check in MSVC project generate script to make sure we do
20:14:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: not use filenames with the same name in different directories, as MSVC is plain
20:14:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: stupid and can't handle that (go wine to Billy or something if you want it fixed
20:14:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: properly)
20:16:05  <Maedhros> heh, if you want it fixed properly it's probably best not to give wine to people :p
20:16:26  <TrueBrain> typo :(
20:16:34  <Maedhros> although i suppose he wouldn't be the one doing the coding, so it may work anyway :)
20:16:34  <TrueBrain> happens to all of us :p
20:16:55  <Maedhros> yeah, i know :)
20:17:17  <TrueBrain> but it is always cool to rub it into someones face
20:17:17  <peter1138> hmm?
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20:17:18  <TrueBrain> I know :p
20:17:41  <peter1138> oh, wine/whine
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20:23:32  <Mind7> mediom     --->
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20:30:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10190 /trunk/ (37 files in 6 dirs):
20:30:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: merged renderer and blitter to one single class API: blitter
20:30:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: introduced a hierachy of blitters to avoid a lot of code duplication
20:30:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Note: this allows much easier adding other types of video-drivers, like OpenGL
20:32:15  <Wolf01> uhg, colors are really difficult to put together
20:32:46  <Wolf01> or at least something that is not lime-pink-electric blue
20:33:48  <peter1138> but!
20:33:59  <peter1138> you've got 16 million colours to choose from!
20:34:53  <Wolf01> yes but i can distinguish only 16 colors
20:34:56  <Wolf01> ;)
20:35:17  <peter1138> you only need shades of primary/secondary colours anyway ;)
20:35:33  <Wolf01> that's the worst part!
20:36:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10191 /trunk/ (config.lib src/stdafx.h): -Backport (r9148 from NoAI): detecting of CPU type (32 vs 64 bits).
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20:40:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10192 /trunk/src/video/ ( win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10190: forgot to change the includes of win32 and cocoa video-driver
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20:44:59  <hylje> mm.. video updates
20:47:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10193 /trunk/src/blitter/ (6 files): -Fix r10190: somehow an other partly-patch was applied too
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21:04:52  <Wolf01> if there is a difficult thing to draw in isometric projection are the stairs -_-'''
21:05:57  <peter1138> good job ttd isn't isometric :D
21:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but almost :p
21:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i once tried to construct a hexagon in isometric view :)
21:07:39  <Wolf01> ok, the steps looks cool, now i'll paint them and add the studs
21:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> isometric view is sin(alpha)=1/2, openttd uses tan(alpha)=1/2, so the angle is slightly off
21:13:14  <peter1138> axonometric :D
21:14:44  <peter1138> (116.565°, 116.565°, 126.87°)
21:14:54  <peter1138> instead of 120°
21:15:07  <Wolf01> can i change the shape of the slopes?
21:15:27  <Maedhros> not really
21:15:36  <Maedhros> especially not if vehicles are going to be moving on them
21:15:53  <Wolf01> not much, only to make stairs
21:16:13  <TrueBrain> stairway to heaven?
21:16:16  <TrueBrain> night all :)
21:16:19  <Wolf01> night
21:16:28  <Eddi|zuHause> stairway to legoland :p
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21:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> but what do you need to change in order to get stairs?
21:19:53  <OwenS> Wolf01: I don't think it would matter if tracks etc were redesigned
21:24:15  <Wolf01>
21:24:34  <Wolf01> i think it is almost all wrong
21:24:41  <Wolf01> but it is an idea
21:26:06  <OwenS> Doesn't look that bad
21:26:28  <peter1138> the edges have to be as they are in ttd
21:26:46  <peter1138> hmm, i think
21:27:08  <Wolf01> if i make all the other slopes to fit, it should have the shape i want
21:27:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10194 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio.h): -Codechange: prefer the current working directory above the user's home directory when openttd.cfg exists in the current working directory, otherwise prefer the home directory.
21:27:15  <peter1138> how will you do half slopes?
21:27:30  <Wolf01> good question
21:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> with steps in both directions, probably
21:29:16  <eekee> ooh Lego ^^ hehe
21:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure the track on the lower end of the half tile is not overlapping with the first step
21:31:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10195 /branches/noai/ (112 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r10119:10194.
21:32:15  <Wolf01> i think i'll post it in the forum, maybe i'll get some graphical suggestions
21:37:42  <Smoovious> just put a smaller lego piece in just one corner
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21:39:22  <Eddi|zuHause> btw. i think the tiles should start with a step at the top, and the bottom flat with the adjacent tile, instead of now that the bottom is the first step, and the top is flaT
21:40:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. like this:
21:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause> .|
21:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> . _
21:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> .  |
21:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> .   _
21:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> not this:
21:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> _
21:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> .|
21:40:46  <Eddi|zuHause> . _
21:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> .  |
21:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> with the upper version, you can lay a \ track on it, without additional offset
21:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> get what i mean?
21:43:06  <peter1138> i do ;)
21:44:46  * Smoovious econds Eddi|zuHause
21:44:53  <Wolf01> i'm trying to build it with lego ;)
21:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> just remove one layer of tiles from each step
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22:02:45  <Wolf01>
22:02:52  <Wolf01> what do you think?
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22:03:49  <peter1138> nice modeling :)
22:03:51  <SmatZ> I like lego, hope to see it in real game :)
22:04:09  <peter1138> can that give you an axonometric view?
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22:04:47  <peter1138> Wolf01: i think your half-flat is wrong though
22:05:01  <peter1138> the flat bit needs to be one lower
22:05:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, not if he does the flat tiles the same height
22:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> he just needs to cut off the vertical edges from the bottom
22:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and add vertical edges at the top instead (on normal slopes)
22:06:11  <Wolf01> uhm, you are right peter1138
22:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but that might cause trouble when two opposite slopes meet at the top
22:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have a "null" tile sticking out
22:10:15  <Wolf01> maybe also Eddi|zuHause is right
22:10:38  <peter1138> Wolf01: yeah
22:11:08  <peter1138> Wolf01: in that case the other half-flat tile is too low at the top
22:11:47  <peter1138> either way you do it there will be oddness
22:12:38  <peter1138> sleep
22:12:44  <Wolf01> looks good with the tiles close
22:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, but you cannot place a rail at the top-half-slop if it is one tile too low
22:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to add another layer there
22:15:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and also you might get in trouble with the sprite sorter, if flat tiles suddenly get "depths"
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22:23:43  <Wolf01> loool
22:24:59  <Wolf01> ok, is too much for me for today, night everybody
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