Log for #openttd on 26th June 2007:
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00:46:09  <Jerub> I find it insulting that as a billionaire transport tycoon, the bank will only lend me a million.
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04:39:01  <Gekkko`> Is there a patch to fund building a new TOWN
04:39:06  <Gekkko`> I want to build a town
04:39:29  <ln-> that only happens in soviet union
04:39:43  <Gekkko`> SovietTTD
04:39:44  <Gekkko`> >_>
04:40:07  <Jerub> In soviet russia, town builds you!
04:41:05  <Gekkko`> but seriously
04:41:06  <Gekkko`> i want to fund the building of a town
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06:57:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10336 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix [FS#910]: reaching the end of a line in certain cases incorrectly stopped signal updates
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07:07:00  <dihedral> morning
07:07:05  * dihedral yawns
07:07:17  <dihedral> way too early to have to be at work :-D
07:09:11  <colle> agreed
07:10:53  <peter1138> yes, which is why i'm not :D
07:13:35  <dihedral> peter1138: just rubb it in will ya :-)
07:14:40  <Gekkko`> still
07:14:42  <Gekkko`> i want to build a town
07:14:51  <dihedral> build it
07:15:00  <dihedral> no one is going to stop you ;-)
07:15:05  <Gekkko`> no
07:15:08  <Gekkko`> fund building a town
07:15:11  <Gekkko`> like an industry
07:15:16  <dihedral> lol
07:15:18  <dihedral> boring
07:15:25  <Gekkko`> not boring
07:15:28  * dihedral yaws
07:15:32  <dihedral> :-)
07:15:45  <dihedral> why would you want to fund building a town?
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07:16:28  <hylje> i want to play simcity in ottd
07:16:35  <bubersson> what about patch fund new town... ;)
07:16:39  <hylje> say, choice between a transport company and simcity
07:16:44  <Gekkko`> bubersson: exactly
07:16:58  <bubersson> somewhere at tt-forums, but maybe outdated
07:17:04  <Gekkko`> I'm playing a small map
07:17:08  <Gekkko`> only 4 towns
07:17:09  <Gekkko`> I need another
07:17:23  <bubersson> it has to be really small map ;)
07:17:24  <Gekkko`> that would make me so happy :)
07:17:30  <Gekkko`> 128 x 128
07:17:32  <Gekkko`> playing it online
07:17:34  <Gekkko`> 4 people on it
07:17:37  <Gekkko`> 4 towns
07:17:47  <Gekkko`> been playing from 1950, were at 2009
07:17:54  <dihedral> hylje: hey - call it openCC :-)
07:18:02  <dihedral> or occ for short
07:18:08  <hylje> not sc?
07:18:43  <dihedral> Gekkko`: if the towns have not grown enough that aint an openTTD fault :-)
07:18:49  <Gekkko`> they have grown
07:18:53  <Gekkko`> that's not what i want to do
07:18:55  <dihedral> yeah
07:18:56  <Gekkko`> they're all 20k peopple
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07:19:04  <Gekkko`> I want another town
07:19:08  <dihedral> hylje: i think under these conditions you might be right
07:19:09  <Gekkko`> I've run out of stations
07:19:10  <Gekkko`> lol
07:19:21  <dihedral> rename them
07:19:22  <hylje> heh thought so
07:19:25  <dihedral> :-P
07:19:34  <dihedral> start a new map
07:19:46  <Gekkko`> no
07:19:46  <dihedral> and bump the number of towns up a nodge
07:19:49  <Gekkko`> NO
07:19:50  <Gekkko`> >_>
07:19:55  <Gekkko`> I just wanna grow one myself
07:19:56  <dihedral> your choice :-)
07:19:56  <Gekkko`> lol
07:20:01  <Gekkko`> how hard would it be to write a patch
07:20:10  <dihedral> do it and find out :-D
07:20:13  <Gekkko`> well, I can answer that >_>
07:20:15  <Gekkko`> hard
07:20:19  <Gekkko`> because then I have to add a button
07:20:22  <Gekkko`> a patch option
07:20:27  <Gekkko`> and the actual doing of the patch
07:20:32  <dihedral> you could possibly look in the map editor for the code :-D
07:20:37  <dihedral> of building a town
07:20:49  <dihedral> then mix that in with the stuff for funding an industry
07:20:55  <dihedral> if you are lucky it will work
07:21:39  * dihedral hopes he has not given Gekkko` some nasty idea
07:22:47  <Gekkko`> you have
07:22:52  <Gekkko`> it might be a function
07:22:54  <Gekkko`> muahaha
07:22:59  <Gekkko`> but I'm lazy
07:25:13  <dihedral> then dont moan about
07:25:31  <dihedral> iwaniwantiwan - but i am too lazy to put any effort in to it myself :-D
07:26:28  <Gekkko`> nono
07:26:30  <Gekkko`> not that
07:26:38  <Gekkko`> I just dont know where to start looking :P
07:27:01  <dihedral> look at all function names that the map generator calls :-)
07:27:26  <dihedral> though i dont think that way of doing it will be all that successfull
07:27:50  <dihedral> but it would give you something to do and keep you quiet :-D
07:38:11  <Gekkko`> is there a way to instantly sell everything off
07:38:55  <dihedral> rcon <password> "reset_company <playerno>"
07:39:25  <dihedral> Gekkko`: i dont think there is!
07:39:58  <Gekkko`> lol
07:40:05  <Gekkko`> we need a declare bankrupcy command
07:40:16  <dihedral> what for?
07:40:17  <Gekkko`> how do i set the rcon password
07:40:24  <Gekkko`> so it sells it all off
07:40:27  <dihedral> in the servers openttd.cfg
07:40:27  <Gekkko`> for people leaving a game
07:40:36  <Gekkko`> how do i change it ingame
07:40:41  <dihedral> or run dump_vars and you will see a variable there
07:40:46  <dihedral> variable=pass
07:41:09  <dihedral> something like server_rcon i think
07:43:56  <dihedral> it's rcon_password
07:44:13  <dihedral> on the server run rcon_password=foo
07:47:12  <Gekkko`> alright
07:47:22  <Gekkko`> My friend wanted to sell off his company
07:47:30  <Gekkko`> because he's just taking up space.
07:47:54  <Gekkko`> need a "Declare Bankrupcy" button in budget
08:01:10  <dihedral> or in the copany info window
08:01:34  <dihedral> but you know what? you could just reset the company from the server
08:01:49  <dihedral> as a"declare bankrupcy" would be a little nasty for
08:01:57  <dihedral> companies that do not have a password set
08:02:19  <dihedral> make it even easier for spoil sports to ruin someones game
08:02:37  <dihedral> join an unprotected company, click the button and dissapear
08:02:40  <dihedral> besids
08:03:02  <dihedral> a company can only be removed if it has noone playing in it
08:03:24  <dihedral> unless you can move a client to spectator in-game it aint gonna work
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08:11:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10337 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#880]: Autoreplace is only valid for the standard vehicle list, not station or shared order lists.
08:14:10  <Gekkko`> dihedral: it could just start the stages of bankrupcy
08:14:19  <Gekkko`> as in mega -0,000
08:14:24  <Gekkko`> quick and nasty button.
08:14:32  <Gekkko`> make it time delayed by 2 years
08:14:38  <Gekkko`> and have the chance to cancel
08:16:38  <Biff> you cant choose to go bankrupt
08:16:52  <Biff> that makes no sense
08:17:19  <Biff> at least not beeing able to choose it at an arbitrary time
08:19:20  <Gekkko`> why
08:19:26  <Gekkko`> its the closest to liquidating
08:20:07  <Gekkko`> unless you could make it auto take everything back to the depots, sell them off, take up all the train tracks, delete the stations and the depots
08:20:11  <Gekkko`> then kill yourself off
08:20:13  <dihedral> Gekkko`: liquidating is done by the admin :-)
08:20:13  <Gekkko`> i dont know what can
08:20:18  <Gekkko`> how so?
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08:20:38  <dihedral> Gekkko`: set the autoclean variables of your server
08:20:55  <dihedral> set it for unprotected companies = 0 or 1
08:21:02  <dihedral> for protected companies to 255
08:21:11  <dihedral> (or whatever the maximum is)
08:21:27  <Gekkko`> what does it do
08:21:30  <dihedral> then removing ones pass from the company will do the job
08:21:58  <dihedral>
08:22:20  <dihedral>
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08:22:44  <Gekkko`> I don't want it like that
08:22:51  <Gekkko`> I just want them the option to kill themselves off.
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08:26:59  <MeusH> hello
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08:34:25  <dihedral> Gekkko`: does not make sense!! if someone does not want to play anymore they can leave
08:34:33  <dihedral> you as an admin can then remove the company
08:35:13  <Gekkko`> yeh
08:35:17  <Gekkko`> but its not the same
08:35:18  <Gekkko`> >_>
08:35:26  <Gekkko`> as an admin can i set their money to -500,000?
08:35:33  <dihedral> no - it aint the same - though is the way it's done :-)
08:35:41  <dihedral> you dont have to!!
08:35:48  <Rubidium> Gekkko`: the major problem is other people removing your company when you are asleep etc.
08:35:59  <Gekkko`> password it
08:36:00  <Gekkko`> >_>
08:36:06  <Gekkko`> plus make it a patch
08:36:08  <Gekkko`> im not saying leave it one
08:36:09  <Gekkko`> on*
08:36:16  <Gekkko`> patch for when they want to
08:36:26  <Rubidium> then it is a server side patch
08:36:32  * dihedral thinks Gekkko` aint making a lot of sense
08:36:33  <Rubidium> which still doesn't solve the problem
08:36:37  <Gekkko`> how so?
08:36:58  <dihedral> server side patch: server sets the patch
08:37:09  <dihedral> not the clients playing
08:37:09  <Gekkko`> not that
08:37:16  <Gekkko`> i know
08:37:24  * dihedral was not sure
08:37:28  <Gekkko`> how doesnt a server side patch fix it
08:38:26  <Rubidium> it still allows people to remove YOUR company when you are away when you deliberately have not passworded it so you can play together with other unknown people
08:39:02  <Gekkko`> I don't play with unknown people
08:39:12  <dihedral> Gekkko`: that is beside the point
08:39:12  <Gekkko`> this is why i'd like it as a patch
08:39:12  <Rubidium> you maybe not, but others do
08:39:31  <Rubidium> Gekkko`: other people on the server you are playing on that is
08:39:35  <Gekkko`> if they are part of the company that is the server, do they become the server?
08:39:37  <dihedral> Gekkko`: i dont think the Devs make patches just for you and according to your playing style
08:39:42  <Gekkko`> I know.
08:39:58  <dihedral> well thats at least a start :-P
08:40:15  <Gekkko`> I just fail to understand how if it's server side that it could screw up
08:40:21  <Gekkko`> with a toggle switch patch
08:40:34  <dihedral> you enable or disable it for the game
08:40:38  <dihedral> once enabled
08:40:44  <dihedral> anybody can make use of it
08:40:53  <dihedral> as in ( i want to remove this company i just joined)
08:40:59  <Gekkko`> cant be disabled?
08:41:11  <dihedral> it's a server side patch!!
08:41:16  <Rubidium> Gekkko`: only by the server admin
08:41:23  <dihedral> you enable it for all or disable it for all
08:41:23  <Gekkko`> exactly
08:41:30  <Gekkko`> i mean only enabled by the server admin
08:41:35  <Gekkko`> and disabled at will
08:41:39  <dihedral> so - someone sais "admin - i want to purge myself"
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08:41:45  <dihedral> you go around enable the patch??
08:41:52  <Gekkko`> that's the admins option
08:42:10  <Rubidium> reset_company is much less hassle
08:42:10  <dihedral> then the admin can also execute the reset_company command
08:42:18  <Gekkko`> that's like saying because guns exist everyone is going to shoot someone
08:42:19  <Gekkko`> lol
08:42:34  <dihedral> rather than everybody shooting themselves ??
08:42:42  <dihedral> that is basically what you are saying
08:42:46  <Gekkko`> :)
08:42:53  <dihedral> hey admin? i wanna shoot myself
08:43:00  <dihedral> can you give me the weapon
08:43:23  <Rubidium> dihedral: wrong
08:43:36  <dihedral> explain
08:43:36  <Rubidium> he admin? I wanna shoot myself, can you give *everyone* the weapon?
08:43:45  <dihedral> LOL
08:43:55  * dihedral laughes his head off
08:44:15  <peter1138> that works too
08:44:16  <Gekkko`> so because people are stupid and dont password their company...
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08:44:23  * dihedral votes to making Gekkko` the #openttd mascot
08:44:31  <Gekkko`> and people are stupid and cant decide not to click self-destruct...
08:44:53  <Gekkko`> did I say this had to be enabled on every server on earth?
08:44:54  <Gekkko`> nein/
08:44:55  <dihedral> Gekkko`: some admins are stupid enough to see that this is not the way forward
08:45:25  <Gekkko`> pfft
08:45:38  * dihedral coughs
08:48:19  <dihedral> Rubidium: what are the looks on a limit_level_land patch that has been discussed in the forums?
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08:53:36  <dihedral> hello elmex
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09:03:58  <Gekkko`> back to my original question
09:04:04  <Gekkko`> Rubidium: "Fund new town"
09:04:10  <Gekkko`> how hard would it be to implement
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09:15:39  <dihedral> hello SmatZ
09:15:46  <dihedral> is orudge around??
09:17:42  * dihedral looks for orudge
09:19:17  <SmatZ> dihedral: hello dihedral
09:19:32  <dihedral> i have news on hosting
09:19:40  <SmatZ> I don't think so :(
09:19:59  <dihedral> but the news is for orudge :-P
09:19:59  <SmatZ> about hosting?
09:20:05  <dihedral> no
09:20:06  <SmatZ> ah :) ok
09:20:08  <dihedral> colocation
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09:21:43  <SmatZ> aha :)
09:24:47  <dihedral> Gekkko`:
09:25:10  <Gekkko`> I <3 dihedral
09:25:35  <Gekkko`> reckon it'll work with r10295?
09:25:52  <dihedral> 2 options:
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09:26:01  <dihedral> try it if it works OK if it does not
09:26:02  <Chris82> morning :)
09:26:05  <dihedral> try to make it work
09:26:07  <Gekkko`> lol
09:26:10  <Gekkko`> another question
09:26:13  <dihedral> hello Chris82
09:26:15  <Gekkko`> can you install MinGW in Linux
09:26:25  <dihedral> why would you want to do that?
09:26:26  <Gekkko`> to compile for the Windows noobs
09:26:46  <dihedral> what the?
09:26:58  <Chris82> I think GCC can compile a Windows .exe too?
09:27:10  <dihedral> Chris82: dont know about that :-P
09:27:22  <Chris82> I thought so
09:27:27  <dihedral> but i doubt you need a windows machine :-)
09:27:30  <Chris82> I mean I can use GCC on Windows with CygWin
09:27:35  <dihedral> nor would you need MinGW
09:28:38  <dihedral> ask Rubidium or so, they will know :-P
09:28:55  <dihedral> or Gekkko` for a change: how about asking google some of those questions?
09:30:30  <Gekkko`> gah
09:30:31  <Gekkko`> lol
09:31:23  <Gekkko`> how do I compile OpenTTD for Windows inside Linux
09:31:24  <Gekkko`> tehre.
09:33:06  <dihedral> apparently there is a minGW32 for linux :-)
09:33:16  <dihedral> you running debian?
09:33:31  <hylje> what
09:34:01  <dihedral>
09:34:14  <Chris82> I was just reading that you can make Linux binaries on Windows with GCC, so I assume it might also work the other way round
09:34:28  <Chris82> anyway I had another question, does anyone use the diagonal demolish/terraform patch?
09:34:38  <Chris82> there's a bad bug in it but I can't figure its origin
09:34:41  <Gekkko`> dihedral: I shall look, thanks
09:35:00  <dihedral> Chris82: scrienies?
09:35:05  <dihedral> *screenies
09:35:09  <Gekkko`> dihedral: I should have used google
09:35:12  <Gekkko`> I have learnt my lesson
09:35:19  <Gekkko`>
09:35:31  <Chris82> the bug is simply that I can click demolish on any tile when I have no money and the money is still subtracted
09:35:32  <Chris82> very ugly
09:36:00  <Chris82> Gekkko:
09:36:38  <Chris82> I can't find the reason why this bug would happen though
09:36:46  <Chris82> the money affecting code looks the same as trunk code
09:37:01  <Chris82> the only thing that's added is support for diagonal demolish/terraform when clicking ctrl
09:38:16  <Gekkko`> might require an fi
09:38:19  <Gekkko`> if*
09:38:31  <Gekkko`> if funds(0)
09:38:35  <Gekkko`> something
09:38:36  <Gekkko`> lol
09:39:01  <Chris82> if (money.GetCost() < 0) {
09:39:01  <Chris82> 						_additional_cash_required = ret.GetCost();
09:39:01  <Chris82> 						return cost;
09:39:01  <Chris82> 					}
09:39:05  <Chris82> I think this is the test
09:39:15  <Chris82> it's the same with the patch and in trunk though
09:39:20  <Chris82> so I might be wrong
09:41:08  <dihedral> got a link to the patch for me? dont wanna search the forums :-)
09:41:46  <Chris82> oh sure sorry
09:42:12  <Chris82>
09:42:34  <Chris82> the bug is in all including the latest version of the patch
09:43:07  <Rubidium> but is the bug in trunk/0.5.2?
09:44:20  <Chris82> no
09:44:25  <Chris82> it's definitely in the patch
09:44:35  <Chris82> I tested it yesterday with 4 trunk versions and 0.5.2
09:45:05  <Chris82> so there must be at least one non-obvious (for me) error in the patch code
09:45:56  <Chris82> I am just comparing trunk and patch version with Tortoise, but haven't found anything yet
09:47:17  <dihedral> does it print out the error too then?
09:47:29  <dihedral> i.e. that you dont have enough funds
09:49:19  <Chris82> yes I get the error that I don't have funds and nothing is demolished
09:49:25  <Chris82> but the money is still subtracted
09:50:15  <Noldo> aha
09:51:12  <Noldo> if the snippet you pasted is inside one of the Cmd_ functions then the "return cost" might be the error
09:52:01  <Chris82> it's inside a cmd_function yes
09:52:08  <Chris82> it was an example from the demolish function
09:52:23  <Chris82> so I shouldn't return cost in this location?
09:52:50  <Noldo> returning the cost will cause that much money to be substracted from the account
09:53:16  <Chris82> hmmm but I doubt this is the error, this piece of code looks the same in trunk
09:53:22  <Chris82> it's also within the cmd function
09:53:42  <Chris82> clear_cmd.cpp line 453 in current HEAD Revision
09:54:12  <dihedral> comment of the code:
09:54:13  <dihedral> @return  error or cost of terraforming
09:54:40  <dihedral> try returning false at that point :-P
09:55:28  <dihedral> sorry, return CMD_ERROR
09:56:12  <Chris82> return (cost.GetCost() == 0) ? CMD_ERROR : cost; < you mean here?
09:56:50  <dihedral> if cost is returned, it will be subtracted from you money
09:56:51  <Noldo> :)
09:56:59  <dihedral> if CMD_ERROR is returned it will not
09:57:05  <Chris82> oh I'll try that
09:57:16  <Chris82> gotta hurry to uni now though, lecture starts soon
09:57:22  <Chris82> I'll let you know later if this fixed it :D
09:57:38  <dihedral> looking forward to hear it :-)
09:58:21  <Noldo> what was that patch about anyway?
09:59:02  <dihedral> diagonally leveling land
09:59:23  <dihedral> or diagonally destrying stuff
09:59:38  <dihedral> i think it's quite a handy thing
10:00:10  <dihedral> now we would only need diagonal tunnels and diagonal bridges :-)
10:00:52  <SmatZ> yes, diagonal levelling (or auto levelling while building rails) would be very useful :)
10:01:11  * dihedral agrees
10:01:20  <dihedral> to the autoleveling :-)
10:01:22  <SmatZ> :)
10:01:57  <dihedral> i would find a timestamp quite usefull too :-D
10:02:53  <SmatZ> what kind of 'timestamp' ?
10:06:18  <dihedral> timestamp of when the currently playing map was loaded/generated
10:07:24  <dihedral> then i can start doing some mining :-D
10:08:24  <SmatZ> aha :-D
10:10:00  <Ailure> we need more tanks
10:10:07  <Ailure> ehhmm wrong window
10:10:11  <dihedral> LOL
10:10:26  <dihedral> someone playing C&C?
10:10:30  <SmatZ> :D
10:10:38  <Ailure> i eas
10:10:44  <Ailure> I was
10:10:47  <Ailure> CnC3 to be exact
10:10:53  <dihedral> i would like to make statistics :-)
10:11:02  <dihedral> which client was playing on which server
10:11:09  <Ailure> I could try make a tank for TTD of course
10:11:14  <Ailure> but it would be kinda pointless
10:11:14  <dihedral> what company, performace , etc
10:11:34  <Ailure> high running cost, low amount of passengers :p
10:11:41  <dihedral> Ailure: as a desaster, comes along and destroys tracks stations etc
10:11:58  <Ailure> heh
10:12:05  <dihedral> drives once across the map
10:12:06  <Ailure> and before someone say that's would be too violent for TTD
10:12:12  <Ailure> what's up with the industries gettin gblown up
10:12:15  <Ailure> or the UFO then? ;)
10:12:26  <dihedral> :-P
10:12:31  <Ailure> The UFO disaster can actually do quite some damage
10:12:33  <dihedral> not as spectacular
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10:12:38  <Ailure> if the track it lands on is in the middle of a city
10:12:38  <Gekkko`> Ailure: used to destroy the opposition
10:12:42  <Gekkko`> make it go to their lorry stations
10:12:47  <Gekkko`> and if it cant enter
10:12:49  <Gekkko`> blows it up
10:13:24  <Ailure> heh
10:13:43  <dihedral> lets turn OpenTTD into OpenC&C
10:13:47  <Gekkko`> yeh
10:13:50  <Ailure> there's already a such project
10:13:53  <Ailure> but it's going nowhere
10:13:56  <SmatZ> :D
10:13:56  <Ailure> FreeCnC i belive it's called
10:13:57  <dihedral> you there, friend or fow
10:14:16  <Sacro|Laptop> friend, and a wet one at that
10:14:43  <dihedral> i say fow
10:14:50  <dihedral> uh - watch it mr.
10:15:01  <dihedral> i shall call my cammerads
10:15:22  <dihedral> cammerads?
10:15:29  <dihedral> "aye"
10:15:32  <dihedral> :-D
10:16:25  <SmatZ> comrade ?
10:16:40  <Gekkko`> gah
10:16:48  <Gekkko`> dihedral: doesnt work with the latest nightly
10:16:50  <Gekkko`> and im not going back
10:16:54  <Gekkko`> >>_>>
10:17:24  <Gekkko`> ../root/source/OTTD-source-nightly-r10328/src/main_gui.cpp:1503: error: `CMD_FUND_TOWN' undeclared (first use this function)
10:18:08  <Gekkko`> basically, if i want it to work, i have to modify the patch
10:18:39  <Gekkko`> gah why cant their be nightly PATCHES
10:18:43  <Gekkko`> instead of just nightly builds
10:19:19  <dihedral> then get a version of trunk where the patch does work
10:19:22  <dihedral> look at the diff
10:19:27  <dihedral> and port it manually
10:19:33  <Gekkko`> yeh I did
10:19:35  <Gekkko`> it burns my eyes
10:19:35  <Gekkko`> lol
10:19:41  <Gekkko`> hmm
10:19:42  <dihedral> keep it up
10:19:49  <dihedral> seems to keep you quite :-D
10:19:49  <Gekkko`> whats a good app for linux for comparing the source to the diff?
10:20:02  <Gekkko`> dihedral: the thing that keeps me quiet is the fact im doing 6 things at once
10:20:06  <dihedral> linux and code noob?
10:20:07  <Gekkko`> duel monitors :P
10:20:10  <Ailure> heh
10:20:23  <Gekkko`> dihedral: no, I've just never needed to use a patch >_>
10:20:32  <dihedral> so?
10:20:34  <Ailure> hmm
10:20:44  <Ailure> I wish the game had some kind of proper supply/demand system though
10:20:45  <Gekkko`> I have no experience in the field of comparing source to a patch
10:20:49  <dihedral> using gnome, kde, xfce?
10:20:59  <Gekkko`> IceWM
10:21:07  <Ailure> the resources you transport is rather boringly the same D:
10:21:18  <dihedral> goto i think that's the domain
10:21:25  <dihedral> and search for diff :-)
10:21:25  <Gekkko`> for what
10:21:34  <Gekkko`> ha ha ha not.
10:21:36  <Gekkko`> I have a diff.
10:21:42  <Gekkko`> diff = patch
10:21:45  <Gekkko`> >_>
10:21:49  <Gekkko`> lol
10:21:56  <dihedral> my word
10:22:04  <dihedral> you are some straining person
10:22:06  <dihedral> :-)
10:22:09  <Gekkko`> lol
10:22:20  <Gekkko`> it gets lost somewhere in translation :P
10:22:23  <dihedral> if you want a graphical interface to diff
10:22:33  <dihedral> then just look for it on sourceforge freshmeat or google
10:22:39  <dihedral> or perhaps your software repository
10:22:53  <Gekkko`> hmm
10:22:56  <Gekkko`> do you use one?
10:23:01  <dihedral> hence "search for diff"
10:23:16  <dihedral> i use a mac for diffs :-)
10:25:09  <dihedral>
10:25:33  <dihedral>
10:28:09  <dihedral> meld looks a little similar to my mac's filemerge
10:29:22  <Gekkko`> vim -d file.patch file.cpp
10:29:31  <Gekkko`> or vim -d file.patch file.cpp -o
10:29:51  *** Gekkko` [] has quit []
10:29:54  <Biff> do vimdiff work on a patch and the source file?
10:30:10  <Biff> will it show the source as the patch would make it on one side?
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10:43:02  <Sacro|Laptop> Request for timetable: Total time for journey
10:44:29  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:45:21  <Maedhros> Sacro|Laptop: easily done
10:46:50  <Sacro|Laptop> Maedhros: well commit it :p
10:46:55  <Sacro|Laptop> its just so i can alter timings
10:47:10  <Sacro|Laptop> so i can have trains meeting at terminii at nice times
10:49:46  <peter1138> oh, nice, totem can play the bbc's videos now
10:50:19  <Sacro|Laptop> they killled the drm?
10:50:34  <peter1138> no idea
10:50:37  <Sacro|Laptop> hmm
10:50:38  <Sacro|Laptop> brb
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10:50:42  <peter1138> the plugins never used to work on the pages
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11:01:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10338 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Show the total time that the timetable will take.
11:02:03  <dihedral> peter1138: there was some complaint against BBC just yesterday or so
11:04:06  <Sacro> Maedhros: THANKS :D
11:04:18  <Sacro> aside from now i have to svn up
11:04:30  <Maedhros> and recompile everything due to the english.txt change ;)
11:04:38  <Sacro> :(
11:04:45  <Sacro> oh crap, looks like rain
11:04:48  <Sacro> this isn't gonna be good
11:05:00  <Sacro> suppose i best grab what i forgot and flee again
11:05:36  <Maedhros> good luck :/
11:07:32  <Sacro> the city is flooded
11:07:36  <Sacro> and its just started spitting again
11:07:46  <hylje> heh
11:07:48  <hylje> enjoy your rain
11:07:54  <hylje> and fog when you dont
11:08:04  <Sacro> the worrying thing is i'm moving closer to the river
11:08:10  <Sacro> hylje: we dont just have fog and rain
11:08:18  <Sacro> despite what asterix tells you
11:08:34  <hylje> omg
11:08:41  <hylje> you caught the reference :O
11:14:58  *** Giddorah [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:15:42  <Sacro> hylje: yes :p
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11:42:08  <Gekko> im back
11:42:23  <Gekko> TTD needs natural disasters xD
11:42:38  <Gekko> like global warming vb
11:42:46  <Gekko> s/vb//
11:43:12  <dihedral> autoclean_companies based on preformance :-)
11:43:19  <Gekko> >.>
11:43:22  <Gekko> no.
11:43:28  <dihedral> no?
11:43:31  <Gekko> no.
11:43:32  <Gekko> lol
11:43:32  <dihedral> i was not even talking to you
11:43:48  <dihedral> :-)
11:43:49  <Gekko> i know.
11:44:01  <Gekko> lol
11:44:17  <dihedral> if its based on performace anything below say 400 gets removed
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11:44:48  <Gekko> god i wish my C was useful.
11:45:00  <dihedral> i wish you were useful
11:45:06  <Gekko> its at a substandard level.
11:45:10  <dihedral> and you knew c/c++
11:45:24  <Gekko> i do know c.
11:45:40  <Gekko> just not good at it.
11:45:51  <dihedral> :-)
11:45:58  <dihedral> i dont know c myself :-P
11:46:03  <dihedral> but i dont have to
11:46:04  <Gekko> >.>
11:46:11  <dihedral> coding is coding!
11:46:25  <Gekko> you just make others feel lesser.
11:46:27  <Gekko> lol
11:46:29  <peter1138> grrr
11:46:37  <dihedral> whatsup peter1138
11:46:38  <Gekko> grrwhat
11:46:39  <peter1138> who knows about opengl programming?
11:46:47  <Gekko> not I.
11:46:48  <dihedral> uh
11:46:53  <dihedral> what you looking for?
11:46:54  <peter1138> i'm getting segfaults in glGenTextures()
11:47:03  <Gekko> #opengl @ freenode?
11:47:08  <hylje> i think you want to visit a gl project chan
11:47:08  <ln-> it's ##opengl
11:47:29  <Gekko> redirects
11:48:36  <dihedral> i still think autoclean on performance is a good idea
11:49:16  <dihedral> no matter if protected or not
11:49:47  <Gekko> peter1138: any chance that "found new city" patch will get in trunk?
11:49:48  <SmatZ> a company can bankcrupt
11:50:17  <dihedral> SmatZ: yes - but a company can stay in game happily at 250 performace
11:50:24  <dihedral> or even lower
11:50:45  <Sacro> peter1138: i know a bit of opengl
11:51:16  <dihedral> is it not nice when 2 people find eachother
11:51:57  <SmatZ> dihedral: maybe this is what are admins for :) it would be hard to determine if it is an unskilled player, the player went offline and will get back, or somebody is intentionally blocking the game slot...
11:51:58  <Gekko> dihedral: what do you mean
11:52:01  <Gekko> lol.
11:52:40  <Gekko> i play with 4 towns, 4 people
11:52:47  <SmatZ> there is also an ability to autoclean companies when nobody connects for some game time ...
11:52:48  <dihedral> SmatZ: you're right, it would be a job for autopilot to do :-)
11:53:10  <SmatZ> dihedral: :-)
11:53:16  <dihedral> SmatZ: true - was just a though :-)
11:53:18  <dihedral> nothing more
11:53:38  <peter1138> Sacro: worked around it
11:53:44  <peter1138> multithreading issue :/
11:53:47  <SmatZ> dihedral: I just had a conversation with you - nothing more :-)
11:53:49  <dihedral> peter1138: way to go
11:53:57  <dihedral> lol
11:54:08  <dihedral> SmatZ: nice - thank you :-)
11:54:10  <Sacro> peter1138: ahh
11:54:26  <dihedral> workarounds is what makes releases stable
11:54:32  <dihedral> see windows :-)
11:54:44  <Gekko> lolol
11:57:24  <SmatZ> yes, Windows are nowadays stable - after 20 years of development...
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11:59:14  <dihedral> are or is
11:59:22  <dihedral> depends on what windows you mean
11:59:27  <Gekko> SmatZ: they arent stable...
11:59:39  <dihedral> if are - development is a lot more than 20 years
11:59:47  <Gekko> lol:
11:59:54  <SmatZ> I mean windows like xp
11:59:54  <Gekko> 4000 years
11:59:56  <SmatZ> :D
12:00:01  <dihedral> Gekko: rubbish
12:00:14  <Gekko> egypt?
12:00:22  * dihedral is being a little bitchy towards Gekko today
12:00:23  <SmatZ> Gekko: maybe Vista have some problems ... but I do not have crashes with XP nor 2k :)
12:00:25  <Gekko> or rome?
12:00:52  <Gekko> im used to it.
12:00:59  <dihedral> SmatZ: bluescreens have been made 'invisible'
12:01:05  <Gekko> doesnt phazse me
12:01:22  <Gekko> dihedral: like wine :P
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12:01:37  <peter1138> vista does a lot of switching to black
12:01:45  <dihedral> nice
12:01:50  <Gekko> vista sux
12:01:57  * dihedral agrees
12:02:02  <dihedral> OS X is the way forward
12:02:11  <Gekko> xp sux osx sux
12:02:17  <dihedral> Gekko: sux
12:02:22  <dihedral> :-)
12:02:22  <Gekko> osx halfsux
12:02:31  <dihedral> os x is all one needs
12:02:35  <Gekko> as the other half is bsd
12:02:43  <dihedral> nice user interface for easy handling
12:02:55  <dihedral> powerfull unix terminal
12:02:56  <Gekko> all one needs is water and food
12:03:03  <valhallasw> and internet
12:03:05  <valhallasw> ^___________^
12:03:08  <dihedral> oh yeah
12:03:10  <dihedral> internet
12:03:40  <Gekko> osx costs more than windows >.>
12:03:49  <valhallasw> so?
12:04:08  <Gekko> cost sux
12:04:16  <dihedral> Gekko: it does not
12:04:30  <valhallasw> you mean 'I can download windows and hax0r it, cannot do that with ox x'? :P
12:04:32  <Gekko> yes, it does
12:04:33  <dihedral> os x has been at 129$ for a few years now
12:04:57  <Gekko> runs on specific pcs only
12:05:09  <dihedral> it does not
12:05:19  * dihedral got it to run in virtual pc's :-D
12:05:26  <Gekko> ...
12:05:27  <dihedral> damn slow i tell ya
12:05:36  <dihedral> but with the intel version
12:05:39  <dihedral> it's a dream
12:05:39  <Gekko> it failz.
12:05:46  <dihedral> Gekko fails
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12:05:47  <Gekko> failz!!
12:05:59  <dihedral> OS X is a dream
12:06:06  *** MarkMc [] has joined #openttd
12:06:06  <Gekko> GNzU forever.
12:06:12  <Gekko> GNU*
12:06:12  <dihedral> + if you like just get open dawin
12:06:27  <Gekko> its defunkt
12:06:35  <dihedral> Gekko is defunkt
12:06:45  <Gekko> yo mumma is defunkt
12:07:16  <dihedral> your mamma is that fat
12:07:31  <dihedral> that your dad could roll over twice after sex and is still on top
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12:08:31  <dihedral> Gekko: no offence :-P
12:08:50  <valhallasw> is Gekko the name of a troll?
12:08:57  <Gekko> no.
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12:09:34  <dihedral> valhallasw: Gekko is the name of some guy constantly wanting 'fund a town' included
12:09:49  <dihedral> and a 'declare bankrupcy' button
12:09:52  <valhallasw> ah
12:09:59  <Gekko> ive said it 4 times today only
12:10:02  <Gekko> >.>
12:10:22  <dihedral> 4 times said, discussed for 10 mins each
12:10:28  <Gekko> :)
12:10:33  <dihedral> lol
12:10:35  <dihedral> rofl
12:11:01  <valhallasw> 'Town funding Really needs to be in Openttd, Lazy Losers' <-- troll?
12:11:13  <Gekko> what?
12:11:27  <dihedral> LOL
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12:14:08  * dihedral being a troll
12:14:15  <dihedral> i want a timestamp
12:14:55  <Gekko> go get one.
12:15:07  * dihedral rushes off to find a timestamp
12:16:31  * dihedral found 1182860177
12:16:50  * Gekko found 1182860178
12:17:07  <dihedral> i bet you did not
12:17:20  <dihedral> cheater :-)
12:17:23  <Gekko> oh i did
12:17:30  <dihedral> how then?
12:17:37  <dihedral> tell me, tell me
12:17:41  <dihedral> huh?
12:17:49  <Gekko> gods.
12:19:38  * dihedral translates some stuff at work
12:24:04  <Chris82> dihedral: Interesting, I fixed the money subtraction bug now, but it's weird
12:24:15  <Chris82> if (money.GetCost() < 0) {
12:24:15  <Chris82> 					_additional_cash_required = ret.GetCost();
12:24:15  <Chris82> 					return cost;
12:24:15  <Chris82> 				}
12:24:25  <Chris82> this piece of code is from original trunk and also in the patch
12:24:41  <Chris82> when I change return to CMD_ERROR the money is not subtracted in the patch anymore
12:24:54  <Chris82> but with original trunk code it's subtracted, but this bug is not in trunk, I don't get it
12:25:30  <Chris82> with original trunk it's not subtracted I meant
12:27:20  <Chris82> bugger I also just noticed that with the diagonal patch the explosion animation is not shown
12:27:31  <Chris82> the idea behind this patch is really great, but the patch is quite buggy
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12:35:26  <Chris82> Yay! fixed the subtraction bug :D
12:35:45  <Chris82> cost.AddCost(ret); was declared twice and placed in the wrong location
12:36:13  <Chris82> terraform and demolish doesn't subtract money anymore now :D
12:36:21  <Chris82> (when you don't have any)
12:36:22  <Gekko> high five
12:36:40  <Chris82> but there's still a minor bug, the explosion animation is not shown :(
12:37:32  <Gekko> meh.;
12:40:45  <Chris82> hmmm I wonder if the original patch author ever tested his patch
12:40:53  <Gekko> lol
12:40:56  <Chris82> there's no word in the thread about the subtraction bug or a missing animation
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12:47:49  <dihedral> Chris82: on demolishing a larger field is the explosion not just shown in the 4 corners of that field?
12:48:43  <Chris82> yes but there's never an explosion
12:48:56  <Chris82> also when I clear just one field there's no explosion shown, only the field is made brown
12:49:38  <Chris82> I just update the animation code in the patch file, it's quite outdated when you compare it with trunk
12:51:00  <dihedral> btw Chris82: SirkoZ was wondering if you would not like to include is smooth_economy patch
12:51:43  <Chris82> what does it do?
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12:51:56  <Chris82> I am almost finished with fixing the current version then I can add new patches :)
12:52:16  <dihedral> i'll get you a link, just a sec
12:52:38  <dihedral>
12:52:43  <Chris82> I also want to include boekabarts grass growth patch as I find it extremely useful, but my brother needs to do the graphics first
12:52:47  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
12:52:58  * _Mist_ wishes there was a patch where you could chose loading-algorithm per-station
12:53:18  <_Mist_> because I have a few goods stations where the improved loading algorythm can't keep up
12:53:32  <dihedral> turn off the (load) order
12:54:17  <_Mist_> really?
12:54:18  <Chris82> dihedral: The patch you sent me will increase industry production by a small chance when over 60% is transported
12:54:23  <Chris82> or is there something else it does?
12:55:36  <dihedral> it fixes the fact that 24/30 production industries can increase
12:55:40  <dihedral> sorry
12:55:49  <dihedral> the fact is that they cannot increase
12:56:22  <peter1138> no, it totally changes the algorithm
12:56:22  <Chris82> ah ic never noticed that :) I think it will be easy to include this patch as it has no effect on savegames I think
12:56:27  <dihedral> tha patch makes sure that any industry has a chance to increase if trasport is appropriate
12:57:07  <Gekko> Chris82: fund new town patch, seen it?
12:57:18  <Chris82> Yes, but I don't like this functionality
12:57:30  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:57:33  <Gekko> why
12:57:38  <Chris82> I primarily want new functionanility and realism. No "cheat" patches.
12:57:51  <Chris82> *functionality
12:57:52  <_Mist_> dihedral: thanks, that and saturating the circuit with trains really did the trick, awesome :)
12:57:54  <Gekko> cheat...? lol
12:58:13  <Gekko> it costs ,000,000
12:58:24  <Chris82> "cheat" != cheat... I know it's not really a cheat, but it's nothing that company can do in real life, i.e. fund a town
12:58:27  <Gekko> thats not really a cheat
12:58:40  <Gekko> no
12:58:47  <Gekko> found a town
12:58:56  <Chris82> 25m is really nothing late in the game :D one ICE train costs that much already when you play with DB Set XL
12:58:58  <Gekko> miners used to
12:59:06  <peter1138> 25m + inflation is a lot :)
12:59:14  <Gekko> companies make villagbes for workers
12:59:22  <orudge> dihedral... I'm here now :p
12:59:33  <Chris82> so in 2000 how much will it approx cost?
12:59:41  <Chris82> with inflation on
12:59:51  <peter1138> depends when you started, heh
12:59:59  <Gekko> 1950
13:00:01  <Chris82> let's say 1925
13:00:10  <Chris82> and can you found unlimited towns or only 1 ?
13:00:11  <Gekko> 1950
13:00:18  <Gekko> unlim
13:01:05  <Chris82> Hmmm I don't know what to think of the patch. It's not really one of the features I am very much looking into.
13:01:14  <Chris82> In which situations did you found towns in your game?
13:01:23  <Chris82> i.e. what did you use the feature for
13:01:53  <Gekko> small maps with 4 towns
13:02:02  <Gekko> added onev
13:02:08  <Gekko> 128x128
13:02:47  <Gekko> or making a hub in a 2048x2048 with towns on low
13:03:12  <Chris82> well hubs generate themselves when you do smart with passenger transports
13:03:19  <Chris82> with towns on low you can get 40k + cities anyway
13:03:28  <Chris82> no need for hubs in such a situation imho
13:03:31  <Gekko> i know
13:03:46  <Chris82> well I'll sleep a night about it ;)
13:03:55  <Gekko> i mean a hub in the central sense
13:04:04  <Gekko> middle of island
13:04:08  <Gekko> junction
13:04:19  <Chris82> dihedreal: Is there a thread on the forum for this industry patch?
13:12:43  <dihedral> orudge: i asked my boss and got permission to add a second server of my own :-D
13:13:29  <dihedral> but he is thinking of moving away from the flatrate we have!
13:13:42  <dihedral> Chris82: there is not, sorry
13:14:40  <Chris82> no problem just asking because I linked all the patch threads in the Integrated thread I made
13:15:21  <dihedral> Chris82: how well are you at keeping up to date?
13:15:31  <dihedral> let me rephrase that
13:15:37  <TrueBrain> flatrate is overrated :)
13:15:41  <dihedral> how are you doing with keeping up to date
13:15:52  <dihedral> TrueBrain - nice to see you :-)
13:16:08  <dihedral> TrueBrain: flaterate is not everrated if its a 100Mbit one :-)
13:16:10  <TrueBrain> will be the last time you do in the next 12 days, so enjoy it :p
13:16:27  <dihedral> shall do :-)
13:16:51  <dihedral> i was wondering yesterday why svn was not being servered over apache + dav_svn
13:16:54  <Chris82> Yay! Explosion animation works also now :D so the patch is fixed now
13:17:15  <Chris82> dihedral: I am at revision r10338 with my integrated build and savegames from HEAD Revision a few older nightlies and 0.5.2 work now
13:17:28  <Chris82> I think I'll publish a new version of the .diff file tonight in the thread
13:18:20  <dihedral> add binaries :-)
13:18:37  <Chris82> I can only compile Windows binaries
13:19:01  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: is it possible to have dbl click selectable action on vehicles?
13:19:13  <Chris82> well but on the other hand, those who don't play on Windows know how to compile themselves in most cases :D
13:19:38  <hylje> its not like compiling is hard
13:19:44  <hylje> windows just makes it more complicated
13:19:46  <dihedral> Phazorx: does it not work already?
13:19:59  <Phazorx> dihedral: not selectable
13:20:04  <hylje> imo windows makes a lot of things more complicated than necessary
13:20:14  <dihedral> TrueBrain ??
13:20:18  <Phazorx> and as i recall it dbl click isnt that different from single click now
13:20:36  <Chris82> hylje: Yeah compiling OpenTTD on Linux is probably much faster since the tools are normally there already and no need for a complicated setup like VC Express
13:21:13  <dihedral> there are linux "users" - the same way as there are for windows
13:21:21  <hylje> the tools are not always there, but easily obtainable
13:21:24  <Sacro> dihedral: hardly the same way
13:21:27  <TrueBrain> bah, my computer crashed :(
13:21:28  <Sacro> linux does it properley
13:21:48  <dihedral> Sacro: have seen them , had to help them!!
13:21:52  <TrueBrain> dihedral: flatrate of 100 mbit is much more expensive then a normal 95% rating :)
13:21:54  <dihedral> had a collegue that was one :-D
13:22:23  <dihedral> TrueBrain: any specific reason you server svn over svnserve and not apache2 +dav_svn?
13:22:29  <TrueBrain> why would it?
13:22:31  <TrueBrain> apache sucks
13:22:43  <dihedral> lol - way more power on permissions
13:22:44  <TrueBrain> reminds me I still need to get ride of apache and install lighttpd
13:22:48  <Phazorx> apache is bloated
13:22:51  <TrueBrain> lol, that is so not true :)
13:22:59  <TrueBrain> I can control permissions on all levels via svnserve
13:23:04  <Phazorx> and lighty rules
13:23:12  <TrueBrain> (okay, it is a modified svnserve, but still)
13:23:14  <dihedral> apache is pretty usefull if you make use of the available features
13:23:37  <hylje> *cough* svnserve is apache
13:23:37  <TrueBrain> apache might be useful, but it sucks
13:23:44  <TrueBrain> hylje: bull
13:24:05  <dihedral> hylje: in what dream is that?
13:24:08  <TrueBrain> apache is: 1) slow, 2) bloat, 3) more holls than my cheese, 4) high CPU + memory demands
13:24:19  <hylje> it builds on the apache portable runtime, so it's pretty much apache
13:24:23  <hylje> not httpd though
13:24:23  <Chris82> what webserver do you use instead?
13:24:33  <dihedral> TrueBrain: my server is running apache2 very happily
13:24:43  <Chris82> mine is running IIS6 happily *ggg* :p
13:24:44  <dihedral> Chris82: phphttpd
13:24:50  <Phazorx> dihedral: can it handle 15000r/s ?
13:24:51  <dihedral> Chris82: yuk
13:24:57  <hylje> phphttpd? wut?
13:25:02  <orudge> lighttpd is good
13:25:06  <Chris82> never heard of that one either
13:25:06  <TrueBrain> hylje: it depends on apr, which is not httpd!
13:25:14  <dihedral> Phazorx: try it if you like
13:25:17  <orudge> Gandalf struggles to find anything to do most of the time :p
13:25:24  <TrueBrain> dihedral: apache can run very happily, just lighttpd is much better :)
13:25:29  <Phazorx> dihedral: i did a lot of testing... we choose lighty
13:25:39  <Chris82> anyway are you sure you need a 100 mb flat? There are plenty of server including thousands of gb of traffic
13:25:45  <Phazorx> for our cases it was more applicable and farm more scalable
13:25:45  <Sacro> orudge: :(){ :|:& };: should keep it occupied
13:25:56  <Chris82> I have a very active site and I only reach 800 gb a month
13:26:12  <TrueBrain> Chris82: doesn't really mean anything ;)
13:26:15  <Gekko> only
13:26:30  <dihedral> Chris82: my server is not the only one on that line
13:26:31  <TrueBrain> I know sites that use 1.4 TiB a month that are really active, and some that use 0.2 GiB, and still are very active
13:26:35  <Chris82> 800 gb is not much, my internet traffic at home is 400 gb a month already
13:26:40  <TrueBrain> activity is not really meaningful
13:26:53  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: any back to dbl clicking - can you please make a selector for which info tab is shown upon dbl click?
13:26:56  <Chris82> yeah I meant it's active and has large downloads 500+ MB big
13:26:57  <Gekko> i get 30gb month if lucky?
13:27:00  <Gekko> ?.
13:27:04  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: feel free to create it :)
13:27:10  <dihedral> + webtraffic is not the only traffic that counts
13:27:24  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: havent you done most of it already ? :o)
13:27:37  <Chris82> Gekko: All depends on how fast your connection is, I use Telekom VDSL which is pretty fast
13:27:42  <dihedral> TrueBrain: your smooth_economy patch
13:27:44  <Chris82> I love the 5 MBit upload at home, that helps a lot
13:27:55  <TrueBrain> <- my home connection usage
13:27:57  <dihedral> TrueBrain: does not work for 24/30 prod ind.
13:28:17  <Gekko> i got 1500kbps
13:28:26  <Gekko> best i can get
13:28:29  <TrueBrain> dihedral: as industries shouldn't be able to drop to that level via smooth-economy
13:28:35  <orudge> Chris82: where do you live?
13:28:45  <Chris82> Berlin
13:28:52  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i found tons of industries at that level
13:28:58  <dihedral> TrueBrain: even some at 18 !!
13:28:59  <Chris82> There are VDSL packages with 25/5 and 50/10 MBit available here
13:29:03  <orudge> :o
13:29:04  <orudge> nice.
13:29:11  <dihedral> TrueBrain: either starting at that level or dropping to!
13:29:14  <Gekko> wtf i vdsl
13:29:19  <Gekko> is
13:29:19  * orudge is on what's supposed to be 8Mbps down, 448kbps up (ADSL)
13:29:21  <Chris82> and I also get my TV over the internet with VDSL so I don't need to pay extra for cable TV
13:29:21  <TrueBrain> dihedral: dropping in smooth-economy isn't possible
13:29:23  <TrueBrain> only in non-smooth
13:29:25  <orudge> however, I don't tend to get more than 4Mbps or so
13:29:29  <orudge> maybe 6Mbps if I'm lucky
13:29:56  <Chris82> yeah that's normal, my brother has 16 MBit Chello and he never gets more than 12 MBit on his connection
13:30:26  <Chris82> if you're not using one of the monopoly companies like Telekom for internet access you never reach the advertised speeds
13:30:31  <Chris82> only in very few cases
13:30:36  <TrueBrain> I have 100 mbit, and I reach it too :)
13:30:54  <Chris82> also I only have around 200 meters copper cable before I am connected to the fiber glass backbone in Berlin
13:31:07  <dihedral> we have over 20 servers sharing a 100Mbit flat
13:31:10  <Gekko> terd
13:31:14  <dihedral> direct fiber to the provider :-)
13:31:18  <dihedral> 8core
13:31:22  <Chris82> hrhr :D
13:31:26  <Chris82> that's nice
13:31:30  <Gekko>  /massignore due to jealousy
13:31:44  <Chris82> lol well I bet you pay a lot less for your connection than we do
13:32:01  <Gekko> no...
13:32:03  <Gekko> sadly
13:32:08  <Chris82> how much do you pay?
13:32:11  <Chris82> if I may ask
13:32:13  <Gekko>  / month
13:32:18  <Gekko> AU
13:32:18  <Chris82> =O *shocked*
13:32:24  <Gekko> 12gb capped
13:32:25  <TrueBrain> I pay  a month :)
13:32:36  <Gekko> 6.4kb/s after the cap.
13:32:37  <Chris82> VDSL25 is 34,99 EUR a month
13:32:41  <Chris82> and that is extremely expensive
13:32:49  <Chris82> you can have 6 MBit flats for 10 EUR as well
13:32:53  <Gekko> fuck Australia's monopolies
13:33:06  <Chris82> no wonder Australian servers are so slow :p
13:33:22  <Gekko> im moving to germany when i learn bggerman
13:33:28  <Gekko> german*
13:33:32  <dihedral> 1800 euro / month
13:33:33  <Chris82> nah go to Sweden or Japan
13:33:39  <Chris82> they have really cheap 100 MBit flats
13:33:41  <Gekko> make me.
13:33:44  <Gekko> lol
13:33:55  <Gekko> i like the country
13:34:08  <dihedral> Gekko: make: *** No rule to make target `me'.  Stop.
13:34:30  <Gekko> stfu
13:34:37  <dihedral> :-)
13:34:45  <dihedral> love you too man :D
13:35:02  <Chris82> dihedral: What is an easy way to check if the smooth economy patch is working?
13:35:10  <Gekko> Chris82: hows becoming a permanent resident of Germany go?
13:35:31  <Chris82> Gekko: I am Austrian, I am not even German but by being from the EU it's no problem
13:35:31  <Phazorx> Chris82: define working
13:35:44  <Chris82> working = no bugs
13:35:48  <dihedral> Chris82: play - you will see :-)
13:35:52  <Chris82> intended behaviour etc.
13:36:03  <orudge> It was nice having a 100Mbps connection at uni
13:36:09  <Gekko> Chris82: I mean for me
13:36:11  <orudge> I think the most I ever pushed through it personally was about 60Mbps
13:36:14  <Gekko> from Aus.
13:36:17  <Chris82> I had to implement it manually since the .diff file is outdated, so I just wanna make sure I did it right
13:36:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10339 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Fix r10311: if you fix your own name, at least also update your description ;)
13:36:26  <Chris82> Gekko: Come here as an exchange student
13:36:43  <Gekko> lol
13:36:47  <Gekko> how?
13:36:54  <Chris82> do you study something?
13:37:02  <dihedral> Chris82: you dont really wanna do that
13:37:09  <Gekko> im in high school right now
13:37:29  <Gekko> lol
13:37:29  <Chris82> well then maybe come here and make your final exams at a German school
13:37:37  <Gekko> why?
13:37:37  <Chris82> then it will be easy for you to live here :p
13:37:41  <Gekko> lol
13:37:44  <Phazorx> Chris82: it is working in most cases, thtere are 2 problems i really dont like tho
13:37:58  <Gekko> hard to get in an Aus university though
13:38:02  <Gekko> >.<
13:38:04  <Chris82> Phazorx: Which problems?
13:38:19  <Chris82> I want to go to the computer science faculty in Brisbane for an exchange year maybe
13:38:33  <Chris82> Talked to a student from there who is at my uni right now
13:38:34  <Gekko> Brisbane? eww
13:38:40  <Gekko> UNSW man
13:38:48  <Chris82> UNSW ?
13:38:49  <Phazorx> Chris82: nature of randomization over time is more inclined to decrease production and if production is lower than certain limit it might never increase
13:38:58  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i shall check but i am pretty much sure that smooth_economy is on
13:39:07  <Gekko> Yes, University of New South Wales
13:39:13  * dihedral checks
13:39:28  <Gekko> Queensland has crap unis.
13:39:34  <dihedral> it's on
13:39:38  <Chris82> Phazorx: Hmmm I thought so already, since some industries will have <60% transported for 100 years in some games
13:39:56  <Phazorx> Chris82: huh?
13:40:23  <TrueBrain> ((RandomRange(50) + 10) * old_prod) >> 8 <- old_prod = 4, gives max: 60 * 4 / 256 = 0
13:40:35  <TrueBrain> so new_prod can never go < 4
13:40:36  <Chris82> well in that patch production decreases when transportation is <60%
13:40:42  <Gekko> maths whore
13:40:48  <Chris82> it can't increase when nothing is transported imho
13:41:35  <dihedral> TrueBrain: funny that - i have seen in the game i host an ind with really low prod
13:41:36  <Phazorx> when nothing is transported it has equal chances of increasin or decreasing
13:41:46  <Chris82> ah ic
13:41:51  <TrueBrain> dihedral: possible, if you disable smooth-economy
13:41:52  <Phazorx> but since inc/dec are percentage based - it will decrease more
13:41:56  <SmatZ> as you are talking about production problems ... when something has too high production (set by a cheat, like 2 040 000 litres of oil), it may sometimes disappear
13:42:33  <Chris82> I will let a game run on super speed and see how low production I get
13:42:49  <Phazorx> in 500 years all will be minimum
13:43:03  <dihedral> TrueBrain: it aint disabled!!!
13:43:05  <Gekko> lol 500
13:43:21  <TrueBrain> dihedral: then it aint possible, math-wise
13:43:23  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i shall make screen shots and give them to you when you are back
13:43:41  <Gekko> make bthem
13:43:43  <Gekko> lol
13:43:43  <dihedral> aint possible and aint happening are 2 different things
13:43:45  <Phazorx> transporting some icreasing chances for growth, but it doesn tlook like it scales with rating
13:43:47  <Gekko> take them
13:44:00  <peter1138> i've had production of 12 before...
13:44:10  <dihedral> scmooth_economy?
13:44:14  <dihedral> -c
13:44:20  <TrueBrain> oh, wait, it of course is possible if you have a big drop at once
13:44:47  <dihedral> well -
13:44:50  <TrueBrain> no, not possbiel, math-wise
13:44:58  <Chris82> Gekko: I wouldn't lol at 500 years
13:45:00  <dihedral> to get to the end of the story
13:45:04  <dihedral> they never increased
13:45:06  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: think about this one, 2 events hapeing one increase and one decreases for same percentage
13:45:09  <Chris82> I had games where I played that long and I love the possibility to play that long
13:45:19  <Gekko> lol
13:45:32  <Gekko> play a map with 4 cities
13:45:33  <Phazorx> say initial is 100 and factir is 10% in both cases
13:45:36  <TrueBrain> dihedral: it is known that any industry < 32 will never increase
13:45:39  <Gekko> for 300 years
13:45:43  *** egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:45:44  <Gekko> map is gone
13:45:56  <dihedral> TrueBrain: :-) well then :-)
13:46:02  <Gekko> cant build any more stations
13:46:03  <Chris82> I know but you can decrease and limit city growth
13:46:15  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i though you would want to make them increase :-)
13:46:19  <Chris82> I thought the <32 never increases was fixed with one of the last nightlies?
13:46:24  <Chris82> or was that just my imagination :D
13:46:28  <Gekko> cant fit intercontinental hub
13:46:32  <TrueBrain> dihedral: just no industry should ever  beable to hit any value < 32
13:46:34  <dihedral> Chris82: that was for 34
13:46:46  <Phazorx> in case of icrease being before decrease 100+10=110; 110-11 = 99; decrease before increase: 100-10=90;90+9 = 99
13:47:05  <TrueBrain> but there you go, this enforces that rule
13:47:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10340 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make sure no industry production can ever hit < 32 with smooth_economy
13:47:38  <Gekko> hmm
13:48:09  <Gekko> TrueBrain: how can i try to get something added to trunk?
13:49:20  <TrueBrain>
13:49:30  <dihedral> TrueBrain: thanks :-D
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13:49:55  <Gekko> bugs >.>
13:49:57  <Chris82> hmmm I just created a 2048x2048 map with many towns and industries and 40% of all industries are sawmills, factories and steel mills
13:49:58  <Gekko> odd lol
13:50:01  <Chris82> I think that's a little much :D
13:50:18  <Gekko> Chris82: that annoys me
13:50:32  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: is it possible to balance math a bit so overtime decrease of production is not greater than increase?
13:50:32  <Gekko> excess factories, not enough mats
13:50:38  <dihedral> Chris82: i think you might be right
13:50:46  <Chris82> I am running at highspeed lowest prod right now is 31
13:50:47  <dihedral> Chris82: to be honest i never used that patch :-)
13:51:14  <Chris82> that one just increased to 35 and 70
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13:51:31  <Chris82> I am running unpatched r10339 right now
13:51:49  <TrueBrain> 31... 35.... 70... production is always a multipler of 8
13:51:54  <TrueBrain> so I truely doubt those values :)
13:52:09  <Gekko> doubt away.
13:52:17  <Gekko> botched code?
13:52:23  <Chris82> uhm, there are lots of industries that have 35
13:52:34  <Chris82> that's no multiplier of 8
13:52:46  <peter1138> it depends on the combination of smooth ecomony and the difficulty setting
13:52:51  <TrueBrain> peter1138: it does?
13:52:52  <TrueBrain> funny
13:52:58  <TrueBrain> maybe even stupid :)
13:53:04  <TrueBrain> but that even might explain what dihedral was bitching about :p
13:53:33  <Gekko> what about "custom" then
13:53:43  <Chris82> btw is it intended that ~80% of all industries with prod <50 are iron ore mines?
13:53:49  <peter1138> ChangeIndustryProduction() is non-smooth
13:54:12  <peter1138> ExtChangeIndustryProduction() is smoot
13:54:15  <peter1138> +h
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13:54:27  <Gekko> smoot haha
13:54:39  <Gekko> very smooth peter1138.
13:55:13  <Chris82> 3 years so far and 32 tonnes is the smallest production I've seen
13:55:17  <Chris82> it doesn't stay there tho
13:55:20  <Chris82> so no problems so far
13:55:32  <Chris82> I'll eat a Pizza and check when I'm back :D
13:55:47  <TrueBrain> you just said the lowest value was 31...
13:55:49  <TrueBrain> but okay
13:55:59  <Chris82> ah right, but that 31 increased to 144 in the meantime
13:56:13  <TrueBrain> the chance of any industry sticking at production of 32 is 1 out of 55
13:56:24  <Chris82> that's pretty small
13:56:37  <TrueBrain> yup
13:56:40  <TrueBrain> intended :)
13:56:41  <Chris82> only one 32 industry right now out of a few thousand
13:56:46  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i had an industry that was stuck at 32 for more than 10 years
13:56:57  <TrueBrain> that sounds about how it is intended to be
13:57:00  <Phazorx> cooper game atm has few forests, which are being exported for 200 years but maintain 32
13:57:14  <Gekko> 3 forests spawning next to each other in one decade, chances of that?
13:57:21  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: you need to run the latest nightly for it to do anything :)
13:57:24  <Chris82> I find it funny though that almost all low production industries are iron ore mines
13:57:41  <TrueBrain> it really is a randomizer, independant of industry type
13:57:42  <TrueBrain> so bad luck
13:58:15  <dihedral> is it in any possible for an industry to start below 32?
13:58:16  <Chris82> hmmm now I have ~20 prod(32) iron ore mines, then around 30 prod(35) woods lol
13:58:21  <Phazorx> i'm just stating that were were grounds for questioning behavior
13:58:30  <Gekko> i had 3 forests spawn next to each ofther in one decade, what were the chances of it?
13:59:03  <TrueBrain> Gekko: calculate the chance!
13:59:06  <dihedral> Gekko is repeating himself :-)
13:59:12  <TrueBrain> dihedral: will be foced to be at least 32 in the next update round
13:59:24  <Phazorx> and really math should be better balanced having chance of being stable rather than slowly decreasing
13:59:27  <dihedral> now that sounds like some nice idea TrueBrain
13:59:35  <Gekko> until i get an answer... >.>
13:59:49  <dihedral> Gekko: chances are low yes
13:59:57  <Gekko> lol
14:00:08  <dihedral> like my little nephew... shesh
14:00:09  <Gekko> was fun.
14:00:09  <TrueBrain> dihedral: it isn't an idea, it is what is happening in latest SVN
14:00:21  <Chris82> hmmm most 32 industries are stuck between 32 and 40
14:00:26  <dihedral> TrueBrain: you're a star
14:00:47  <dihedral> Chris82: that is due to the length of the month :-D
14:01:00  <Chris82> ahh
14:01:16  <TrueBrain> no, that is because there is an equal chance of increasing and decreasing when you do not transpart goods
14:01:28  <Phazorx> not equal
14:01:30  <TrueBrain> when you start transporting, the increase chance increases
14:01:35  <TrueBrain> they are equal
14:01:40  <Phazorx> it is percentage based i just shown that
14:01:58  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: think about this one, 2 events hapeing one increase and one decreases for same percentage
14:02:04  <Phazorx> in case of icrease being before decrease 100+10=110; 110-11 = 99; decrease before increase: 100-10=90;90+9 = 99
14:02:11  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: let me tell you again: they are equal
14:02:17  <Chris82> buw why must production be a multiplier of 8? I mean there are hundreads of industries that are not in my test game right now
14:02:22  <Chris82> but*
14:03:02  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: numbers appear equal but since you base it on relative value it will decrease over time
14:03:08  <Chris82> 35, 50, 63, 70 etc.
14:03:12  <TrueBrain> Chris82: internally industry_rate is stored in a small value, like 4 means '32'
14:03:16  <TrueBrain> I dunno how other numbers represent the game
14:03:27  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: either read the code, or believe what I am telling you; either way, you are wrong
14:03:37  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i read the code
14:03:44  <Phazorx> you use percentage
14:03:44  <TrueBrain> then you clearly failed to read it correctly
14:04:08  <Phazorx> heh of course...
14:04:11  <dihedral> lol
14:04:15  <Phazorx> it is basic math tho you should see my point
14:04:24  * dihedral sympathizes with TrueBrain
14:04:26  <TrueBrain> (getting tired talking about industry production shit every time, everyone his own opinion about how it works and how not... blabla-woefwoef)
14:04:32  <Chris82> well I can't find any real problem with industry production after 10 years fast forward :p
14:04:45  <TrueBrain> transport goods, industry increases, all that is important :)
14:04:53  * Chris82 nods
14:05:07  <Sacro> Maedhros: any chance of haiving a "Minumum recommended" timetable?
14:05:08  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i'll change the topic for ya
14:05:11  <dihedral> BUSH ROCKS
14:05:23  <Sacro> dihedral: i prefer shaven
14:05:28  <TrueBrain> I smell a kick :p
14:05:54  <Sacro> nah, Bjarni isn't here
14:05:55  <Maedhros> Sacro: autofill will give you the time that each section actually takes
14:06:08  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i said i was going to change the topic :-D
14:06:23  <Sacro> Maedhros: yes, but when i alter it... i forget :(
14:06:25  <TrueBrain> Sacro: but DorpsGek is here
14:06:50  <Sacro> Maedhros: and autofill doesn't take into account the return journy
14:06:55  <Sacro> from A-B-C-D its fine
14:07:00  <TrueBrain> and  Maedhros, it is a nice function :)
14:07:06  <Sacro> but from D-A stopping at C and B, it fails :(
14:07:20  <Sacro> ooh
14:07:21  <Maedhros> it should work...
14:07:25  <Sacro> but it shows me total time
14:07:32  <Sacro> so i can simply shove that as the return time
14:07:38  <Sacro> as its 50% distance
14:07:39  <TrueBrain> dihedral: next time you have an industry < 32, let me know, and save the savegame ;)
14:08:03  <Sacro> hmm, it gets up to 31 days late on return
14:08:09  <Chris82> just had a bank with 24 :D but it was before your commit
14:08:17  <Sacro> but as the return is sceduled to take 39 days
14:08:19  <Sacro> it catches up
14:09:01  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i'll keep a savegame a screen shot and ... and... yeah
14:10:01  <dihedral> TrueBrain: would do you think of being able to search for players? and keeping a top10 or something
14:10:13  <dihedral> TrueBrain: website wise
14:10:17  <hylje> would do you think?
14:10:21  <hylje> lol, wut?
14:10:27  <TrueBrain> dihedral: I once implemented that
14:10:36  <TrueBrain> kept a top10 of performance and company values and stuff
14:10:39  <TrueBrain> history of a game
14:10:50  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i would love to do that with OpenTTDLib
14:10:51  <TrueBrain> but... somewhere was a bug, and the DB was trashed from time to time
14:10:52  <Sacro> its cheatable
14:10:54  <TrueBrain> so I gave up :)
14:11:08  <TrueBrain> Sacro: it was part of the idea to make the MS to authorize people with a password
14:11:20  <TrueBrain> and servers that could become authorized servers
14:11:27  <TrueBrain> (where you can only login with a valid login)
14:11:38  <TrueBrain> so you could ban people from the MS (of course you can always play in a non-authroized server)
14:11:48  <TrueBrain> so you can play tournaments and stuff
14:11:51  <dihedral> TrueBrain: if i could keep a distinction between one game to another
14:12:03  <TrueBrain> just the online community was too small at that stage
14:12:09  <Sacro> TrueBrain: ahh yes
14:12:24  <TrueBrain> might be fun though to revisit the idea
14:12:31  <TrueBrain> dihedral: you have enough information I think
14:12:37  <Sacro> i considered implementing it myself
14:12:37  <TrueBrain> companies, start time, ...
14:12:54  * Sacro grabs libopenttd
14:12:55  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i was hoping to keep track of games
14:12:56  <TrueBrain> else ask Rubidium to extend the gameinfo with the generation seed
14:13:01  <TrueBrain> dihedral: define 'track'
14:13:16  <Maedhros> Sacro: ah. that would be a bug...
14:13:42  <Sacro> Maedhros: ah would it?
14:13:43  <dihedral> TrueBrain: ./openttd executed - ottd genereates map, keeps timestamp of generation of mpa
14:13:46  <Sacro> oh crap
14:13:50  <Sacro> PLEASE DON'T RAIN
14:13:55  <Gekko> lol
14:13:59  <dihedral> ottd loads a savegame - ottd remembers the timestamp when the map was loaded
14:14:09  <Sacro> looks like it's time for me to pack up and leavve
14:14:21  <TrueBrain> Sacro: good luck
14:14:34  <TrueBrain> dihedral: like that.. hmm.. not so easy to do
14:14:36  <Sacro> TrueBrain: i'll need it
14:14:39  <Sacro> its a wade to the main road
14:15:28  <dihedral> TrueBrain: that way each game had a distrinct id!!
14:15:46  <dihedral> TrueBrain: then making OpenTTDLib query the masterserver for available games
14:16:00  <dihedral> TrueBrain: query all those games and write data to a database
14:16:10  <TrueBrain> no need to do it via OpenTTDLib
14:16:16  <dihedral> if the game is over, archive data to save space
14:16:17  <TrueBrain> the MS can do it himself
14:16:27  <TrueBrain> but okay, we can assign a md5 for each game
14:16:28  <TrueBrain> randomly
14:16:31  <TrueBrain> should give enough randomness
14:16:43  <dihedral> TrueBrain: the MS could do it
14:16:57  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
14:17:00  <dihedral> TrueBrain: but i was also thinking some admins might want to do that for all their games
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14:17:17  <TrueBrain> dihedral: true
14:17:18  <dihedral> TrueBrain: like the sandrabull*** games
14:17:24  <Gekko> lol
14:17:26  <Gekko> ***
14:17:42  <dihedral> 4 starts takes too long to type
14:17:52  <Gekko> lol
14:18:01  <Gekko> lazy boy
14:18:07  <dihedral> yeah - that's me
14:18:10  <Gekko>
14:18:16  <Chris82> Broken savegame - unsupported game wtf?
14:18:19  <Chris82> gamma*
14:18:20  <Gekko> thats onscreen kbd, pda
14:18:38  <dihedral> TrueBrain: + it would save a lot of database work
14:18:43  <dihedral> and space
14:18:46  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:18:52  <Chris82> dihedral: What's up with my games?
14:19:15  <dihedral> whats up?
14:19:32  <dihedral> what you do?
14:19:46  <Chris82> <dihedral> TrueBrain: like the sandrabull*** games < I was referring to that sentence
14:19:54  <Chris82> as you were obviously saying something about my games :p
14:20:11  <TrueBrain> dihedral: lol, space enough, don't worry :)
14:20:24  <dihedral> Chris82: i thought it to be less embarassing then to admit that i did not know how to spell that name
14:20:39  <Chris82> lol
14:20:44  <TrueBrain> dihedral: but I always wanted to make something to track games in a normal way
14:20:58  <dihedral> Chris82: what do you think of OpenTTDLib for all your games??
14:20:59  <TrueBrain> but as people cheat a lot, it really needs some validation to make it fair and usable
14:21:35  <dihedral> TrueBrain: only protected companies are taken into account
14:21:40  <Chris82> well what I would need for my servers is something that the server only pauses on initial start until someone joins
14:21:52  <Chris82> but then continues and not pauses again as soon as no one is in the game
14:22:03  <TrueBrain> but okay, we need a good model
14:22:05  <dihedral> Chris82: min_players
14:22:17  <TrueBrain> would be fun to see leagues or what ever in OpenTTD
14:22:20  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i'll do some thinking over the next 12 days
14:22:21  <TrueBrain> ladder-games :)
14:22:23  <Chris82> yeah min_players 1 doesn't work
14:22:27  <Chris82> then the game pauses on start
14:22:34  <TrueBrain> I need to finish my head-to-head idea...
14:22:34  <Chris82> but also in year 2048 when no one is in the game it pauses
14:22:40  <Chris82> and the game will never restart as it should
14:22:40  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
14:22:46  <Chris82> no one joins in 2048 anymore
14:22:53  <TrueBrain> and I need to replace the console with SQ, so people like Chris82 can be made happy :)
14:23:04  <Chris82> :D
14:23:13  <dihedral> SQ?
14:23:21  <TrueBrain> Squirrel
14:23:35  <TrueBrain> so you can script yourself all you want :)
14:23:48  <dihedral> nice
14:23:57  <Chris82> hmmm Longer Finance History breaks savegame support :(
14:23:58  <dihedral> something like a plugin?
14:24:03  <Chris82> *digging code*
14:24:12  <TrueBrain> dihedral: you know we have network_server scripts?
14:24:21  <dihedral> yes - use them
14:24:25  <TrueBrain> small piece of code that are executed on certain events
14:24:28  <dihedral> scripts/op_server_connect.scr ??
14:24:35  <TrueBrain> yeah
14:24:44  <TrueBrain> but the script is rather limited  to the console language
14:24:44  <dihedral> but that is not very powerfull
14:24:47  <TrueBrain> which is kind of crappy
14:24:52  <TrueBrain> so, I want to replace it with Squirrel
14:24:52  <dihedral> would be nice to have arguments passed
14:24:59  <TrueBrain> allow many more commands
14:25:14  <TrueBrain> so Chris82 can do: if (date == "1920-01-01" && players != 0) unpause()
14:25:16  <TrueBrain> which solves his problem :)
14:25:17  <dihedral> i shall have a look at squirrel - i dont know it atm
14:25:27  <Chris82> perfect :)
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14:25:31  <dihedral> TrueBrain:  that sounds amazing
14:25:42  <dihedral> really really good
14:25:44  <TrueBrain> SQ is already added in NoAI branch
14:26:02  <dihedral> if then an argument could be passed?
14:26:13  <TrueBrain> and if you looked at NoAI, you know how powerful it is :)
14:26:31  <dihedral> i.e clients nick uppon join passed to on_server_connect.scr
14:26:53  <TrueBrain> most likely it means removing all those scripts blabla
14:26:55  <TrueBrain> but some event system
14:27:11  <TrueBrain> but dunno yet what is the best way
14:27:12  <TrueBrain> we will see
14:27:29  <TrueBrain> but the idea is to make autopilot possible in OpenTTD itself
14:27:35  <TrueBrain> instead of an external application
14:27:41  <TrueBrain> or at least make it more easier :)
14:27:45  <dihedral> TrueBrain: is there already a script executed on yearly bases?
14:28:07  <dihedral> i cannot remember
14:28:22  <TrueBrain> don't think so
14:28:29  <TrueBrain> but okay, just some things I would like to add some time in OpenTTD
14:28:36  <TrueBrain> but now, now I am going to put music on my iPOD :)
14:28:51  <dihedral>
14:28:53  <TrueBrain> and then, I get some food, viist some friends, go to sleep, get my car, and get the hell out of here :)
14:29:01  <TrueBrain> so, have fun all, enjoy yourself :)
14:29:11  <dihedral> enjoy your holiday TrueBrain
14:29:19  <TrueBrain> tnx, will do
14:29:29  <dihedral> wanna see some photos when you get back :-P
14:29:41  <dihedral> "what does a nerd do on vacation" :-D
14:29:50  <Gekko> PalmTTD woo
14:30:09  <dihedral> -nerd +geek :-P
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14:33:23  <Chris82> hmmm adding a Patch with Flag "S" breaks trunk compatibility but doesn't break 0.5.2 compatbility
14:33:44  <Chris82> when I add a patch ith Flag "0" it works fine with trunk as well, but the patch isn't supposed to be a server setting
14:34:17  <Chris82> any workarounds or ideas?
14:35:03  <Gekko> a shotgun
14:35:19  <Chris82> huh?
14:35:21  <dihedral> Gekko: yeah - point it towards yourself
14:35:29  <dihedral> :-D
14:35:31  <dihedral> j/k
14:35:32  <Gekko> tad hard
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14:36:53  <Chris82> is there a reason that no single patch uses flag N ?
14:37:30  <Gekko> wtf is N.
14:37:55  <Chris82>
14:38:03  <Chris82> flags and guiflags
14:38:11  <Maedhros> network only. i have a feeling end_date uses it
14:38:39  <Chris82> uhm network only? I thought N is do not sync with network
14:38:45  <Chris82> at least the wiki says no
14:39:17  <Chris82> I want to add a patch that each player can set, but when I use flag S for this the patched version can't load trunk savegames anymore
14:39:23  <Maedhros> ah, so it is
14:39:34  <Gekko> sleep time, cya
14:39:39  <Chris82> night
14:39:51  <MeusH> goodnight
14:41:08  <Maedhros> S should work for old savegames... can i see the how you're using it?
14:41:47  <Chris82> all other patches are 0, 0 they work fine with trunk and 0.5.2 savegames, only this one is not working
14:42:39  <Maedhros> since it's not saved, you shouldn't need to use SDT_CONDVAR - try using just SDT_VAR instead
14:42:52  <Chris82> kk
14:44:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10341 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10236): Only update the timetable when leaving stations if this is a scheduled stop.
14:44:19  <Maedhros> Sacro_: there you go, autofill (and timetabling in general) should work for return journeys now :)
14:44:47  <Sacro_> oh cock
14:44:53  * Sacro_ boots his laptop up *again*
14:46:01  <Chris82> hmmm no making it SDT_VAR didn't help unfortunately
14:46:04  <Chris82> I'll try N
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14:49:07  <Chris82> nope doesn't help :(
14:52:55  <Chris82> hmmm setting it to flag 0 doesn't help either
14:53:00  <Chris82> there must be a general problem with this patch
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14:53:52  <Sacro_>
14:54:01  <Sacro_> thats scary
14:54:09  <Sacro_> it doesnt even dip under the railway bridge
14:54:13  <Sacro_> must be about 15ft
14:55:28  <dihedral> thats crazy
14:56:20  <Sacro_> yeah
14:56:24  <Sacro_> its about 5 mins from here
14:56:32  <Sacro_> that same railway passes my house
14:57:10  <hylje> :o
14:58:36  <Sacro_> just checked outside, its only about a foot deep
15:00:00  <dihedral> double click on server = join
15:00:08  <dihedral> double click on company = join
15:00:16  <dihedral> ? ;-)
15:00:43  <dihedral> what say you?
15:00:47  <hylje> if there's only one company and the server has one company max, automagically join that company
15:00:50  <hylje> yes
15:01:02  <dihedral> hylje: one might want to spectate
15:01:10  <hylje> nooooooo
15:01:13  <hylje> :<
15:02:12  <dihedral> "one", not hylje !!
15:02:22  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
15:02:24  <hylje> what
15:02:34  <dihedral> "one" might want to spectate
15:02:36  <dihedral> and not
15:02:42  <dihedral> hylje might want to spectate
15:03:13  <MeusH> lol
15:03:21  <hylje> fine
15:12:46  <Chris82> Integrated Version 2 :D now loads 0.5.2 and trunk savegames. Yay!
15:12:51  <Chris82> Thanks to the support of you all :D
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15:15:52  <dihedral> Chris82: i wanna see you use OpenTTDLib with all your games :-)
15:18:50  <Chris82> :D I'll test it, I first gotta do some math exercices for tomorrow now though
15:21:44  <dihedral> ;-P
15:21:47  <dihedral> enjoy
15:21:53  * dihedral is falling asleep at work!!
15:22:03  <dihedral> last 30 mins!!
15:33:56  *** MeusH [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:37:49  * dihedral has only 20mins left of his woking day
15:37:57  <hylje> woking day
15:38:00  <hylje> is it tasty?
15:38:09  <dihedral> ops
15:38:10  <dihedral> yeah
15:38:12  <dihedral> eh
15:38:17  <dihedral> i am a cheff....
15:38:21  * dihedral coughs
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15:52:17  <NukeBuster> hmm... why is clearing land being done in landscape.cpp and levelling land in cmd_clear.cpp?
15:53:07  <NukeBuster> seems both files are doing the opposite then?
15:53:39  <NukeBuster> of their file names...
15:53:42  *** Nickman [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
15:53:59  <Maedhros> clear in this case refers to clear tiles (grass, rocks, etc) rather than the action of clearing them
15:54:04  <blathijs> NukeBuster: cmd_clear doesn't refere to "clearing land", but to "cl...
15:54:06  <blathijs> yest, that
15:54:07  <blathijs> :-)
15:54:09  <Maedhros> :)
15:54:49  <NukeBuster> ok, thanks for clearing that one up :)
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15:58:19  <NukeBuster> anyway... i gave the diagonal land patch a go... fixed a few minor bugs and upped it to latest rev... see
16:00:58  <dihedral> NukeBuster: you might wanna chat with Chris82 :-)
16:01:11  <dihedral> he did some patching of that too
16:01:13  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:01:20  <dihedral> anyhow - i am on my way home now
16:01:27  <dihedral> cu guys in about an hour :-)
16:01:43  <dihedral> quit
16:01:45  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:02:39  <NukeBuster> Chris82 at the keyboard?
16:04:31  <Chris82> yes
16:04:43  <Chris82> doing maths exercices tho :p
16:05:30  <Chris82> ah ic you fixed the diagonal patch
16:05:34  <Chris82> what have you done to achive it?
16:05:59  <Chris82> I only replaced the explosion animation code with trunk code and then there was one line of code duplicated within a complex if clause
16:06:12  <Chris82> which caused the subtract money bug when there is no money
16:06:20  <NukeBuster> i placed the addcost command after de actual do command...
16:06:47  <Chris82> yeah that was the problem
16:07:14  <NukeBuster> same happened with clearing..
16:07:30  <Chris82> yup terraform and demolish both had the bug
16:08:19  <NukeBuster> Hmm.... wondering about one thing though...
16:08:37  <Chris82> good so we didn't find a different solution :) makes me confident it's the right solution :D
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16:08:39  <NukeBuster> i'm not sure what fixed the level entire map thingie...
16:09:05  <Chris82> I think that is handled by trunk code anyway, it's not part of the patch iirc
16:09:21  <NukeBuster> well... it was only possible while pressing ctrl
16:09:32  <NukeBuster> not whet levelling a rectangle
16:09:38  <NukeBuster> *when
16:10:21  <Chris82> oh hmmm, well I couldn't reproduce that error in my build so I guess it's not here
16:10:43  <NukeBuster> hmm... strange...
16:10:54  *** Nickman [] has joined #openttd
16:11:07  <NukeBuster> i hit that every time i tried it...
16:12:25  <NukeBuster> hmm... i didn't fix it...
16:12:34  <Chris82> what the...
16:12:35  <NukeBuster> try selecting a tile with water
16:12:45  <Chris82> I just randomly got the error
16:12:50  <Chris82> but can't repro it ?!?
16:12:52  <NukeBuster> and then ctrl-dragging it in to the land...
16:13:06  <Chris82> I ctrl-flattened a huge area of land which subtracted money
16:13:12  <NukeBuster> nou i've got -1,481,138
16:13:17  <Chris82> although I got the error message that I don't have enough money
16:13:24  <NukeBuster> but i know whats missing
16:13:28  <Chris82> but when I tried it again right afterwards, I got the error and no money was subtracted
16:14:13  <NukeBuster> it' this...
16:14:16  <NukeBuster> i think
16:14:16  <Chris82> ahhhh ok I figured it out
16:14:18  <NukeBuster> money.AddCost(-ret.GetCost());
16:14:23  <Chris82> it only occurs when you have >0 money
16:14:31  <Chris82> when you have <0 money the error handling works
16:14:40  <NukeBuster> is missing with the diagonal part...
16:14:48  <Chris82> but when you have >0 money it just flattens the complete land and subtracts the cost
16:15:04  <NukeBuster> but i'm not sure what it precisely does
16:15:24  <Chris82> well it checks if there is money available to do the action you want
16:15:30  <NukeBuster> gehe...
16:15:36  <NukeBuster> so it's the right line :)
16:15:37  <Chris82> and apparently this check is not implemented for diagonal levelling
16:15:46  <NukeBuster> :)
16:15:59  <NukeBuster> i thought i fixed it yesterday...
16:16:13  <NukeBuster> apparently i forgot to add it in my clean version
16:16:14  <Chris82> I can't fix it right now do, have to finish maths first :p
16:16:18  <Chris82> so I'll look into it later
16:16:24  <NukeBuster> i'll up a new patch...
16:16:27  <Chris82> cool thx
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16:21:20  <NukeBuster> ok, it is fixed now...
16:21:25  <NukeBuster> making the diff
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16:24:56  <UnderBuilder> a question: when new map array comes in, will be there a locomotion-style bridges building system?
16:25:42  <Belugas> there is a new map array coming in??
16:25:53  <Ailure> there was
16:25:54  <Ailure> ;P
16:25:54  <peter1138> another one :D
16:26:10  <peter1138> an m8?
16:26:22  <Belugas> hehe:)
16:26:29  <Rubidium> _mee ;)
16:26:41  <Belugas> lol
16:26:57  <Rubidium> or maybe _yam
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16:27:11  <Belugas> _yama maybe?
16:28:27  <UnderBuilder> the new map arrays looks like dead
16:28:35  <Belugas> UnderBuilder, there is no map array renewal coming in.  We do not work on it, nor will be in the short term futur
16:28:42  <NukeBuster> What about multilane bridges?
16:29:03  <Belugas> it appears dead because our current way of doing seems to be adequate, for now
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16:29:37  <UnderBuilder> then how will be done subways then?
16:29:52  <Belugas> not now for sure...
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16:30:11  <Belugas> we might eventually work on it, but it's not on the horizon yet
16:30:38  <hylje> platform bridges would be adequately kewl while we wait for that
16:30:48  <Rubidium> a new and flexible map array has a long list of dependencies that noone works on at the moment
16:30:49  <hylje> although they need newish map array
16:31:35  <Belugas> right now, the map array knows what is on the ground, no matter how high the ground is
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16:31:58  <Belugas> going undergroud or upperground means a lot more data then what is actually available
16:32:29  <NukeBuster> it is not possible to ad a z axis to the array?
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16:32:47  <Belugas> not currently, no
16:32:57  <Belugas> and simply a Z will not suffice
16:33:06  <Rubidium> NukeBuster: adding a z-axis to a flat array doesn't solve your problem
16:33:16  <Rubidium> and in that sense, it already stores the z or the tile
16:33:23  <Belugas> you'll need to make the array a pile of tiles for each coodinate
16:33:32  <Rubidium> but it can only have one z per tile
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16:34:32  <Belugas> but let say we are in a good, very good position to work on it, since all the map array references are done with accessors
16:34:49  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
16:34:50  <Belugas> thus, changing the underneath structure has been made easier
16:35:05  *** NukeBuster [] has left #openttd []
16:35:11  <hylje> hmm
16:35:15  <Belugas> although it does not mean we should stick with the current structure...
16:35:46  <hylje> flexible map array, as in somewhat arbitrary extensions to the flat map at certain bind points..
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16:40:32  <dihedral> hello
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16:48:30  <Wolf01> hello
16:48:45  <dannys9> Hi guys, I'm trying to work on a window layout manager. The code fails to compile as soon as I include window.h, MinGW always shows me pages full of stupid error messages (as "order.h: OrderID does not name a type") for all headers included by window.h. I can't imagine what's wrong. There's just a function declared as "void PlaceWidgets(const Widget *wid, char *layout, uint16 &width, uint16 &height) { }". Can anyone help, please?
16:50:28  <spexter_> oops
16:50:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10342 /trunk/src/lang/ (21 files): (log message trimmed)
16:50:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-26 18:48:16
16:50:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 3 fixed by WhiteRabbit (3)
16:50:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 17 fixed by tucalipe (17)
16:50:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 15 fixed, 10 changed by arnaullv (25)
16:50:35  *** spexter_ [] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!]
16:50:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed by Zr40 (9)
16:50:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
16:50:38  <Smoovious> yes... it isn't a 'stupid error message', but actually a valid one...
16:52:14  <Rubidium> dannys9: you need to include some header (don't know which one exactly) before you include window.h
16:56:13  <dannys9> Yes, that's it. Needed to include openttd.h first. Thanks for your help!
16:58:19  *** redmonkey [] has quit [Quit: quit]
16:58:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10343 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp:
16:58:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: Add documentation of functions and code-style fix.
16:58:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks of 45 degree patch for bringing it up
16:59:54  <UnderBuilder> busy developers?
17:01:08  <hylje> :o
17:01:15  * peter1138 sits on his arse *all day*
17:01:21  <peter1138> stupid desk job :p
17:01:53  <eekee> lol
17:04:46  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
17:05:45  <Chris82> tileh == SLOPE_STEEP | ComplementSlope(unsafe_slope[mode])) < warning: Check operator precedence for possible error; hrmpf
17:05:54  <Chris82> how to solve? :)
17:06:45  <Rubidium> Chris82: using NukeBuster's latest patch?
17:06:57  <peter1138> Chris82: like it is in trunk, probably
17:07:03  <peter1138> tileh == (SLOPE_STEEP | ComplementSlope(unsafe_slope[mode])))
17:07:14  <Rubidium> because NukeBuster's patch reverts some fixes in trunk
17:07:43  <Chris82> I am using it partially
17:07:52  <Chris82> to fix a bug with diagonal levelling
17:09:07  <Chris82> peter1138: Thanks that did the trick :) *remembersolutionforfuture*
17:09:19  <peter1138> yeah, check what it is in trunk ;)
17:10:27  <stillunknown> Rewriting the train movement stuff is not easy, hopefully i'll get it to work at all.
17:13:32  <Chris82> ah NukeBusters patch reverts the can't terraform canal thingy from trunk
17:13:38  <Chris82> thanks for saying that so I can fix it :D
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17:31:56  <Chris82> if (!EnsureNoVehicle(tile)) return CMD_ERROR; what does this line do?
17:32:15  <Chris82> it's from the buy a land tile code
17:32:38  <Noldo> it tests if there is a vehicle on the tile
17:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> if there is a vehicle on the tile, exit and say there was an error
17:33:05  <Chris82> hmmm but on a purchasable land tile there can't be a vehicle?
17:33:09  *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-196-94.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:33:17  <Chris82> I mean you can't buy land when there is road or rail on the tile ?
17:33:36  <SmatZ> Chris82: most likely, if it is a half-road tile, there may be a vehicle
17:33:36  <Chris82> so is that check even necessary?
17:33:45  <Chris82> ah ok
17:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> it might be a water tile with a ship?
17:34:30  <Chris82> you can buy water tiles?
17:34:37  <Chris82> didn't know
17:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know...
17:36:05  <Rubidium> crashed planes
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17:37:52  *** dihedral [] has joined #openttd
17:38:17  * dihedral says hi
17:38:19  <dihedral> hi
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17:41:48  <Chris82> you can't buy water tiles btw :)
17:41:55  <Chris82> it says can't build on water
17:42:06  <SmatZ> yup
17:42:37  <SmatZ> and only trams can be on half-road tiles, normal road vehs won't go there (as I tested)
17:42:38  <dihedral> that is a dissapointment
17:42:53  <Rubidium> Chris82: as I said, crashed planes
17:43:10  <SmatZ> maybe UFOs too?
17:43:20  <Rubidium> those too
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17:50:37  <Chris82> uhm when I click shift and try to demolish something I get an error like window with estimated costs?
17:51:29  <SmatZ> Chris82: yes, you do
17:51:53  <Chris82> oh cool didn't know of this feature, well but it's buggy with the 45° patch as well :D lol
17:52:05  <Chris82> man 4 serious bugs in 1 patch
17:52:49  <SmatZ> :)
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17:56:49  <Belugas> and people screaming to get it into trunk :S
17:56:55  <Belugas> nice way to test...
17:57:43  <SmatZ> Chris82: are you the maintainter of the ChrisIN ?
17:57:48  <Chris82> yes
17:58:14  <Chris82> Belugas: Luckily we solved the worst bug already (subtracting money when you don't have any :D)
17:58:14  <SmatZ> ah great, so you are going to include that patch to test it :)
17:58:25  <Chris82> the patch is in already
17:58:45  <Chris82> it's mostly fixed except that cost estimation does not work right now and the explosion animation is not shown
17:58:52  <Chris82> i have the solution for the latter already
17:59:17  <Chris82> also the current ChrisIN loads trunk and 0.5.2 savegames which was not working with my initial release
17:59:24  <Wolf01> - Removed German language support  ???
17:59:45  <Belugas> i let you work on that, guys.  Just don't screw it, make it a nice one.
17:59:47  <Chris82> yes, because only a few patches updated the german.txt and others don't so it wouldn't have worked properly anyway
17:59:49  <SmatZ> hmhm, cost estimation may be problematic, like is cost estimation for water leveling
17:59:57  <Chris82> so ChrisIN only works with English right now
18:00:37  <Belugas> I've already did what i could with my limited time: reducing its size its a tiny little bit
18:00:37  <Wolf01> maybe it patches only english is a better way to tell it
18:00:53  <Chris82> ok :) good point
18:01:03  <Chris82> I was to lazy to translate the missing parts :D
18:01:05  <Maedhros> Chris82: it'll use english strings for any that aren't translated
18:01:06  <Wolf01> oh hello Belugas
18:01:07  <Chris82> too*
18:01:32  <Belugas> hello Wolf01 :)
18:01:45  *** nihil84 [] has joined #openttd
18:03:43  <dihedral> hello Belugas
18:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> Chris82: not all strings have to be translated for a language to work
18:05:37  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
18:06:27  * dihedral compiles nightly
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18:13:45  <Belugas> hello dihedral :)
18:13:49  <Belugas> sorry for the lag...
18:13:55  <Belugas> as usual, i'm... buzy
18:17:36  <dihedral> as usual - i thought so :-)
18:23:20  <dihedral> Rubidium: still cannot build pre signals in multiplayer
18:23:29  <dihedral> on windows XP
18:25:25  <Chris82> Eddi: Yes I know but I think at least the STR_ must exist in the language file?!
18:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
18:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> it automatically copies the  egnlish string
18:26:43  <Chris82> Ah ok I see how it works now :)
18:26:45  <Chris82> Just tested it
18:26:52  <Chris82> cool :)
18:31:16  <Rubidium> dihedral: that really sounds like a local problem to me; I've not heard anybody else who couldn't build presignals
18:32:13  <dihedral> arrow keys dont work either
18:32:28  <dihedral> though works in 0.5.2
18:32:38  <dihedral> and works under linux
18:32:57  <Maedhros> any custom patches? (if the answer is yes, try again without them :p )
18:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: care to isolate the revision which made it stop?
18:33:17  <dihedral> Maedhros: no custom patches
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18:33:41  <dihedral> odd thing is it works in singleplayer
18:33:57  <dihedral> though not after i once played in multiplayer
18:34:10  <dihedral> after restarting the game it will again work in singleplayer
18:34:32  <dihedral> fellow players have not issues - same os - same game
18:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> same binary?
18:34:53  <Rubidium> then what *is* the different factor?
18:35:04  <Wolf01> [brickland] fixed *again* the full corner slopes, now it's all ok :)
18:35:17  <Wolf01>
18:35:30  <dihedral> nightly build zip
18:35:48  <Phazorx> TrueBrain:
18:35:56  <dihedral> Rubidium: i have a german version of XP?
18:36:03  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:36:24  <Rubidium> Phazorx: expect a reply in no less that two weeks
18:36:36  <Phazorx> vacation?
18:36:53  <Rubidium> yup
18:37:00  <Phazorx> sad
18:37:09  <Phazorx> he doesnt want to listne to me
18:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> that, or just extreme lag :p
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18:38:33  <Phazorx> 500 years, 4 industries with <32 putput, 1/3 of industries stuck at minimum, only one industry with ~2K, 2 with ~1K
18:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01|AWAY: it looks weird with these different shades of green on one tile
18:39:10  <Phazorx> overtime smooth economy gradualy REDUCES output and industries got to minimal output stay there
18:39:21  <Phazorx> i can prove ti both matheamtically and empericaly
18:40:18  <Rubidium> ooh, proving randomness mathematically or emperically ;)
18:40:24  <dihedral> LOL
18:40:36  <Phazorx> Rubidium: statistically if you want
18:40:55  <dihedral> statistics on randomness are rubbish
18:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> you CAN do calculations about expected (average) outcome mathematically
18:41:12  <Phazorx> i did
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18:41:20  <Phazorx> and even that is not needed
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18:41:37  <Phazorx> nature of how "change" is calculated is clearby unbalanced
18:41:48  <Rubidium> it is?
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18:42:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, 50% loss is clearly weighted heavier than 50% gain
18:42:08  <Rubidium> 20/1024 chance of decrease, a higher chance of increase
18:42:21  <Phazorx> and with equal chances of inc/dec and current idea of calcualting change
18:42:27  <Phazorx> Rubidium: why higher
18:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> in order to outbalance 50% loss you need 100% gain
18:42:35  <Phazorx> only if industries are used
18:42:41  <Rubidium> a (20 + (i->last_month_pct_transported[j] * 20 >> 8) / 1024 chance
18:43:07  <Rubidium> which means 40/1024 if 100% transported
18:43:16  <Phazorx> Rubidium: this is case study for no interferance from human
18:43:24  <Phazorx> if left alone it reduces
18:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> the trick is not to use arithmetic mean but geometric mean to calculate "balance"
18:44:15  <Phazorx> arithmetical mean?
18:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you'd assume the chance of loss and gain were even, then sqrt(max_loss*max_gain) must be 1
18:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> not (max_loss+max_gain)/2
18:45:04  <Phazorx> well only mean gain/loss makes sense ehre
18:45:13  <Phazorx> however max is derived from it
18:45:36  <dihedral> Rubidium: i can build the signals if i start a server locally and connect to that...
18:45:38  <blathijs> 20:06 <@peter1138> the threads at this stage are the map generator the gui, for that lovely scroll bar effect, heh
18:45:41  <blathijs> 20:07 <@peter1138> but i wonder if i could create a separate thread to handle all opengl duties
18:45:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, max or mean does not make a difference if it is evenly distributed
18:45:42  <Phazorx> Rubidium: problem is that change is relative ot value rather than absolute
18:45:44  <blathijs> sorry for that
18:45:47  <blathijs> 20:07 < blathijs> Is there a seperate GUI thread?
18:45:49  <blathijs> 20:09 <@peter1138> only during map generation
18:45:52  <blathijs> woops
18:45:58  <peter1138> 19:41 < Phazorx> if left alone it reduces
18:46:02  <peter1138> isn't that the idea? ;)
18:46:12  <Phazorx> peter1138: i tihnk it should be balanced if left alone
18:46:20  <Phazorx> and overall effect should be 1
18:46:42  <Phazorx> because as it is noe human needs to intervene to maintain production level
18:46:51  <Rubidium> Phazorx: i.e. no effect of amount of transportation then, just randomness
18:46:53  <Phazorx> and intervene even more to increase it
18:47:30  <Phazorx> Rubidium: how it should be done is different story, currenty i'm just making a point that the way it is doen is not balanced
18:47:41  <Phazorx> due to usage of relative change factor
18:48:02  <Rubidium> relative change factor?
18:48:20  <Phazorx> okay 3rd time i do this today
18:48:23  <dihedral> b back in a jiffy :-)
18:48:33  <Phazorx> say there is an industry which has production of 100
18:48:46  <dihedral> or is it of importance to anybody here that i test this windows ctrl issue??
18:49:01  <Phazorx> chances of inc and dec are equal so say 2 events happen, one inc the other dec by 10% each
18:49:02  <Rubidium> yes, it goes down a little more than it goes up
18:49:09  <dihedral> otherwise i shall just boot up in linux
18:49:41  <Rubidium> but *how* can you solve that "issue"
18:49:45  <Phazorx> inc > dec: 100; 100+10;110 - 11; 99
18:50:01  <dihedral> Rubidium: i have no idea
18:50:03  <Phazorx> dec > inc: 100; 100-10;90 + 9; 99
18:50:07  <dihedral> it works on local games
18:50:20  <Rubidium> dihedral: was talking to Phazorx
18:50:36  <dihedral> Rubidium: thats a real shame :-)
18:50:38  <Rubidium> dihedral: I've got no means to even try to debug your problem
18:51:17  <Phazorx> Rubidium: that's not a little, since it is per event, and has cumulative effect
18:51:45  <Phazorx> if left alon till eternity lim of "function" of chage is some static minimum
18:52:17  <Rubidium> Phazorx: HOW do you solve that issue?
18:52:19  <Phazorx> even with more industries are being created and "fix" for minimum production having larger increase
18:52:31  <stillunknown> Anyone know were the show cost animation function is?
18:52:31  <Rubidium> without using floats that is
18:52:51  <Rubidium> stillunknown: search for TE_RAISE and follow the trail
18:53:24  <stillunknown> Can't find that.
18:54:18  <Phazorx> Rubidium: for example calculate absolute balance of all changes at given moment of time
18:54:35  <Phazorx> it should be 0 for all unprospered industries
18:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Phazorx> inc > dec: 100; 100+10;110 - 11; 99 <- exactly because sqrt(0.9*1.1) < 1
18:54:44  <stillunknown> But i did find the function is seek.
18:55:23  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah i was trying to illustrate what i meant by "mathematically/statistically"
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18:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> it works much better if you do 10% decrease and 11% increase
18:57:00  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: not really true - both decreease and increase are random
18:57:02  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:57:07  <Phazorx> 10+R(0-50)
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18:57:39  <Phazorx> and 10+R(0-55) for increase wont do the trick
18:57:47  <MadMax> hi
18:57:56  <stillunknown> Is there something in the game that i can use to highlight a tile at the base?
18:58:08  <UnderBuilder> I think the temperate forests should be changed with a 2x2 building that cuts down trees around itself like the tropical sawmill but it can be builded randomly like mines, farms...
18:58:11  <Phazorx> another approach i can suggest - using fixed steps array for both decrease and increase
18:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, because if decrease is between 10 and 50%, increase must be between 11 and 100%
18:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> not 11 and 55%
18:58:36  <UnderBuilder> well, with newindustries will be possible that so I shut up
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18:58:52  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: true
18:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's nonlinear
18:59:30  <Phazorx> it doesnt have to be
18:59:36  <Phazorx> but it better be balanced
19:00:33  <Phazorx> precalculated relative (percentage) change steps with argegated effect of 0 and geometrical mean of 1 should be easy and efficient
19:01:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> try changing the random formulas so that min_gain=1/min_loss and max_gain=1/max_loss, and do a similar "statistical" run
19:01:31  <Phazorx> floats
19:01:39  <Phazorx> we were traing to avod them
19:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> it has nothing to do with floats
19:01:53  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02:03  <UnderBuilder> so what is the current feature being developed in openttd? wiki seems out of date
19:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have fixed point arithmethics (because you multiply everything by 100% anyway)
19:02:17  <peter1138> UnderBuilder: there is no one current feature
19:02:28  <Wolf01> there are many current features
19:03:27  <Belugas> UnderBuilder : and we rather enjoy developping than keeping the wiki up to date :P
19:04:30  <Wolf01> how is with newindustries, if i can ask?
19:04:35  <UnderBuilder> well, wiki is also open source, so the users can contribute to it
19:05:35  <Belugas> Wolf01 : improvements and stepback, basically...  Stepback since i've learned some of my decisions are wrong, improvement since i've almost finished the Fund NewIndustry gui
19:05:38  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
19:05:45  * dihedral compiles 10k2
19:05:54  <Wolf01> yeah :D
19:06:46  <Belugas>
19:06:57  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: do you have the commit power/will to replace randomization by fait one?
19:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
19:07:17  <Wolf01> looks good
19:07:21  <Belugas> needs to add the accepted and produced cargos.  a bitch
19:07:26  <Phazorx> so it'll be 11+R(0-100)
19:07:38  <Phazorx> peter1138?
19:07:44  <peter1138> wut?
19:07:49  <Belugas> and I don't know why I have two white banks :(
19:08:05  <Phazorx> or Rubidium
19:08:06  <UnderBuilder> also, what about if you have a newgrf missing the gui shows a 'search this grf on grfcrawler' button?
19:08:17  <Phazorx> are you guys following conversation with Eddi|zuHause3 ?
19:08:26  <peter1138> no at all
19:08:30  <Wolf01> eh the one which produces and receive and the other which receives only
19:08:42  <Wolf01> maybe
19:09:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: your calculation is even wrong... 10+50=60%, so you need 167% gain
19:10:29  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: that was your calculation btw
19:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i did a sample calculation, because it's easier with 50% than 60% ;)
19:11:07  <Phazorx> peter1138: basiaclly current "randomizer" for smooth economy industry changes is lapsided
19:11:18  <Belugas> UnderBuilder : been discussed lenghtly. answer : no
19:11:28  <Belugas> Wolf01 : no, it must be a nug on my part
19:11:45  <Belugas> bug
19:11:56  <peter1138> maybe it's by design
19:12:13  <Phazorx> TrueBrain claims it is balanced
19:12:22  <Rubidium> Phazorx: that's your opinion
19:12:50  <Rubidium> because when the production stays the same on average, we don't need to introduces new industries
19:13:57  <Phazorx> <TrueBrain> Phazorx: let me tell you again: they are equal
19:13:59  <Phazorx> <TrueBrain> Phazorx: either read the code, or believe what I am telling you; either way, you are wrong
19:14:06  <dihedral> no problems with r 10002
19:14:06  <Chris82> this is probably a stupid question but why is landscape.cpp under Source Files and not Landscape in the VS project?
19:14:32  <Chris82> I always look for it in Landscape first :D
19:14:35  <Phazorx> that was his answer to balance of changes
19:15:20  <Belugas> Chris82 : landscape.cpp is not a command file.  landscape section is devoted to command-aware files
19:15:34  <Phazorx> and i hardly doubt that it was done intentionaly to lower combined output of indutries over time
19:15:41  <Belugas> landscape.cpp is a regular source file
19:15:52  <Chris82> thanks for clearing that up :)
19:16:29  <Chris82> Phazorx: Why do you think combined output lowers with time?
19:16:52  <Chris82> When you theoretically deliver cargo from every industry it will not decrease over time and that's realistic
19:17:05  <Chris82> when there is no demand at most industries production will decline just like in real life
19:17:10  <Chris82> or have I missed something?
19:17:23  <Phazorx> i just explained that 4 times in past 2 hours
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19:17:34  <Chris82> sorry *hides*
19:17:39  <Chris82> need to scroll up I guess :D
19:17:45  <Phazorx> i dont "think" it does, it DOES i can prove it and at least Eddi|zuHause3 agrees to me now
19:18:18  <Phazorx> and answer i got from author was that changes aare balanced by design
19:18:21  <Rubidium> Phazorx: it does when you do not transport anything. This behaviour is OK.
19:18:26  <Phazorx> however i can see how implementation lacks it
19:18:37  <Chris82> hmm maybe it's not too hard to write some part of test code that outputs overall production somewhere
19:18:44  <Rubidium> Phazorx: TrueBrain is not the author of smooth economy AFAIK
19:18:45  <Chris82> then it would be easy to test it in games
19:18:48  <UnderBuilder> why not? Is a 'search on GRFCrawler' button, not a 'Download immediately' one
19:18:55  <Phazorx> Rubidium: he is maintainer i gues?
19:19:09  <Rubidium> well, he tried to fix some bugs with it
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19:19:50  <dihedral> Chris82: make it a console command :-P
19:20:07  <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: because 50% or so is not even listed at GRFcrawler
19:20:11  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
19:20:11  <Nukebuster> !logs
19:20:41  <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: and it would add a lot of dependencies to other applications just to launch a web browser
19:20:43  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i would not say it is okay, due to nature of game you can not instantly start transporting everything to maintain high level
19:20:43  *** MarkSlap [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:21:10  <Rubidium> Phazorx: so... industries die, new industries arise
19:21:12  <Phazorx> and with current setting player's effort to counteract logic are quite considerable just to maintain balance
19:21:24  <Phazorx> Rubidium: this only concerns 1st tier
19:21:26  <Phazorx> which doesnt die
19:21:52  <Smoovious> dunno what kinds of issues it would create with GRF authors, but there are GRF's used  by servers, that you can't download anymore... perhaps allow downloading the missing GRF's  directly from the server?
19:22:20  <Belugas> copyrights have been raised as one of the issues.
19:22:22  <Rubidium> Smoovious: that is not going to happen and has been talked about a thousand times before
19:22:31  * Smoovious nods.
19:22:42  <Belugas> and even grf writers objected to the idea.
19:22:44  <Belugas> so...
19:23:06  <Phazorx> Rubidium: average decrease is 10 + 50/10 = 30%, average increase is currently same./.. but you need +50% to counteract -30%
19:23:09  <Chris82> in which file is the code for cost estimation when pressing shift?
19:23:12  <Rubidium> Phazorx: so you tell me that none of the primary (farms, oil rigs, oil wells, etc) don't die?
19:23:24  <Kjetil> Chris82: it's everywhere
19:23:40  <Rubidium> Chris82: that happens automatically
19:23:50  <Phazorx> so a player if a player want to increase ndustry output they have to pump these extra 20% by increaseing chances of increase jsut to MAINTAIN production level
19:24:03  <Phazorx> Rubidium: with smooth economy yes the do not die
19:24:04  <Rubidium> it just executed the command that would be performed when not pressing the shift
19:24:13  <Smoovious> well, production levels fluctuate
19:24:27  <Phazorx> Smoovious: absed on set of rules
19:24:41  <Phazorx> which lead them to constant overall decrease over time
19:24:54  <SmatZ> Chris82: this is what 'if (flags & DC_EXEC )' statements are used
19:24:59  <Smoovious> to a point
19:25:39  <stillunknown> Can anyone tell me how _new_vehicle_direction_table relates to direction?
19:25:54  <Rubidium> Phazorx: can you show me the code that makes it impossible that primary industries die?
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19:26:14  <stillunknown> Because (for example) direction 4 is south, while _new_vehicle_direction_table lists it as invalid.
19:26:36  <stillunknown> I mean as north east.
19:26:48  <Phazorx> Rubidium: hmm... i can tell you how it is in game
19:26:51  <Phazorx> lemme see the code
19:27:29  <Phazorx> industry_cmd.cpp:1629
19:27:37  <Phazorx> for 10304
19:28:21  <Phazorx> actualyl that is something different
19:28:29  <Phazorx> i have no idea what these propwerties do
19:29:02  <Rubidium> Phazorx: and in 10343?
19:29:58  <Phazorx> i doubt file got changed much
19:30:12  <UnderBuilder> what about... shipways? :D
19:30:16  <UnderBuilder> lol
19:30:34  <Rubidium> Phazorx: you are pointing to some case that only happens in secondary industries
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19:31:02  <Phazorx> i was mistaken please look at primary part
19:31:08  <Belugas> Phazorx : Rubidium is right.  Primary industries do NOT die
19:31:12  <Belugas> i know, believe me...
19:31:14  <Phazorx> and these that set cloeit to false
19:31:20  <Phazorx> Belugas: visa verse
19:31:27  <Phazorx> i am sayign the dont die, he says they do
19:31:34  <Belugas> ho...
19:31:38  <Rubidium> Phazorx: do primary industries set closit to false unconditionally?
19:31:50  <Phazorx> Rubidium: conditionally
19:31:54  <Phazorx> but they do set it in all cases
19:32:03  <Rubidium> ergo, primary industries do close as I said
19:32:04  <Phazorx> all practical cases i guess
19:32:15  <Smoovious> well, they close occasionally, but not for any reasons having to do with delivered cargo
19:32:31  <Smoovious> some  just run out of raw materials... for examplpe
19:32:44  <Phazorx> i have not seen a primary industry close in any game for considerable amount of time i play with smooth economy
19:32:45  <Rubidium> Smoovious: that's only the close message
19:33:04  <Smoovious> I know
19:33:14  <Smoovious> but it closes, nontheless...
19:33:33  <Phazorx> Belugas: please help to convince Rubidium that they do NOT close
19:33:40  <Smoovious> running out of raw materials i s  simulated
19:33:44  <Phazorx> and that is irrelevant to the point i was making anyway
19:34:03  <Phazorx> Smoovious: we are talking about smooth ecnomy rather than standard behavior
19:35:01  <Smoovious> Phazorx... should make no difference... smooth econ is supposed to have smaller changes, more frequently...
19:35:19  <Smoovious> shouldn't  change if thing close or not
19:35:25  <Phazorx> it does change that
19:35:47  <Phazorx> and it's not safe to assume that we know what it shoudl and shopuld not do at this point
19:36:17  <Phazorx> since it is neither balanced as TrueBrain claims nor working as Rubidium expects it
19:36:44  <Smoovious> I'm not talking about what it _is_ doing right now, but what it _should_ be doing
19:36:58  <dihedral> Rubidium: it works all of a sudden - but dont ask my why
19:37:02  <dihedral> i have no idea
19:37:10  <Phazorx> that's exactly my point, there is stipulation that it currently acts as desired
19:37:27  <Belugas> Phazorx, Rubidium, actually, the code does not prohibit it
19:37:32  <Belugas> I've made a little survey
19:37:35  <UnderBuilder> what about new towns foundation (randomly, not placed by the user)
19:37:59  <Belugas> The ony place where an induistry could be deleted(closed) is in UpdateIndustryStatistics
19:38:05  <Smoovious> well... all I can add is that I always use smooth econ, and I've seen raw material  industries close
19:38:13  <Belugas> industry_cmd.cp : 1695
19:38:31  <Belugas> unless, of course, smooth_economy is on...
19:38:53  <Phazorx> Belugas: we are talkign about smooth economy on
19:38:54  <Rubidium> hmm, TrueBrain at least broke it by clamping to 4
19:39:10  * Smoovious shrugs, and goes back to gettting his patches up to date.
19:39:31  <Belugas> 	if (i->prod_level == 0) {
19:39:31  <Belugas> 		DeleteIndustry(i);
19:39:31  <Belugas> 	} else if (_patches.smooth_economy) {
19:39:31  <Belugas> 		ExtChangeIndustryProduction(i);
19:39:31  <Belugas> 	}
19:39:34  <Phazorx> Smoovious: screenshot?
19:39:42  <dihedral> let me correct that Rubidium
19:39:56  <dihedral> it works when i have another ottd game running in the background!!
19:40:14  <Smoovious> Phazorx... of what?
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19:40:44  <Phazorx> primary closing
19:41:10  <Belugas> with smooth : 				case INDUSTRYLIFE_NOT_CLOSABLE:
19:41:10  <Belugas> 					return;
19:41:20  <Belugas> so, no way can it be closed
19:41:27  <Phazorx> Belugas: that is something different
19:41:27  <Smoovious> next time I see one, if I remember, I'll nab one... may take a while... I don't play very often
19:41:42  <Phazorx> and according to lines you posted
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19:42:07  <Phazorx> only unexplored industries can be affected by smooth economy?
19:42:42  <Phazorx> so ExtChangeIndustryProduction applies only to case when industry is not transported from
19:43:17  <Rubidium> hmm, who actually wrote that piece of crap?
19:43:19  <UnderBuilder> I need two grfs with id's 44442301 and 52570102
19:43:25  <Phazorx> err.. applies only to industry that has neither kind of cargo exported from (but will afefct any cargo type ot producses)
19:43:29  <UnderBuilder> they are not in grfcrawler
19:43:34  <UnderBuilder> which ones are them?
19:43:53  <Phazorx> Rubidium: any  idea where is the code that updates production in case if indutry is used?
19:44:13  <Rubidium> exactly the same function
19:44:24  <Phazorx> grep -r ExtChangeIndustryProduction *
19:44:26  <Belugas> default of all industries : i->prod_level = 0x10;
19:44:28  <Phazorx> industry_cmd.cpp:               ExtChangeIndustryProduction(i);
19:44:33  <Phazorx> it is called only once
19:44:37  <Phazorx> in whole src
19:44:44  <Phazorx> from that ifstatement Belugas just posted
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19:45:54  <Belugas> prod_level changes ands determines (once at zero) if it should close.
19:46:17  <Belugas> but ChangeIndustryProduction prohibits prod_level to be changed for INDUSTR_NOT_CLOSABLE
19:47:07  <Phazorx> well sicne it gets to that function i know that priomaries are flagged so it does reaches 0
19:47:59  <Belugas> 1) I'm at work, and really buzy.  So i do have my miond concentrated at 100%
19:48:11  <Belugas> 2) If you say it reaches 0, then it should close
19:48:28  <Phazorx> it goes to that function
19:48:42  <Phazorx> but it has 2 mroe statement affecting closeit flag
19:49:05  <Phazorx> which rull out chance of closure for any industry with any production AFAIK
19:49:10  <Phazorx> rule out
19:49:26  <Phazorx> so closeit is being conditionaly set to flase for primary industries
19:49:57  <UnderBuilder> but at least the name of the newgrf should be showed if a grf is missing
19:50:00  <Phazorx> and although then can potentialy get closed (there are no hardcoded limitations) it is nog going to happen according to logic
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19:51:36  <Smoovious> if a newgrf is missing, how will it know the name? check the server's info page for the list of grf's it is using
19:51:44  <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: where do you need the name of the newgrf to be shown?
19:52:05  <Belugas> isn't it shown with a red dot on the newgrf setting?
19:53:32  <Smoovious> 44442301=modified building costs
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19:54:01  <Phazorx> i guess i'm gonna have to make a bug report, you guys loose interest too quickly for me to prove my point
19:54:10  <Smoovious> made by Pikka and DanMacK
19:54:41  <stillunknown> How can a Direction be converted into a DiagDirection?
19:54:59  <stillunknown> Since a direction can sometimes imply more than one DiagDirection.
19:55:22  <Rubidium> stillunknown: look at direction.h
19:55:25  <UnderBuilder> yes, it is shown but as '<Unknown>'
19:55:36  <Smoovious> cuz it isn't aware of it
19:55:42  <stillunknown> Rubidium: I see that, but i don't see how it will work.
19:56:02  <stillunknown> For instance, a train going south, may enter a tile southwest or southeast.
19:56:04  <Rubidium> direction_variable = DirectionToDiagDirection(diagdir_variable);
19:56:07  <Smoovious> dunno what  the other one is
19:56:20  <stillunknown> DirToDiag simply turns that into southwest.
19:56:45  <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: then your (or the one of the server you queried from) internet connection is not 100%
19:57:15  <Rubidium> because it requests the name of the newgrf using a non-reliable packet protocol, i.e. it might not end up at the destination
19:59:30  <Rubidium> stillunknown: that isn't going from direction to diagdir
19:59:54  <Rubidium> because the diagdir you want is (almost) the inverse of DirectionToDiagDir(direction)
20:00:22  <Smoovious> btw... 44442301 = pb_build.grf ... maybe a google  search on the filename, or on, will help you find it
20:00:43  <stillunknown> Rubidium: then the function is not ok?
20:00:48  <Rubidium> no
20:01:07  <Rubidium> pb_build.grf does not have a name in the grf
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20:02:17  <Smoovious> didn't say it h and one
20:02:25  <Belugas> Phazorx : too quickly???? gotta be kidding o_O
20:02:31  <Smoovious> but that's the filename of the grf that u ses #44442301
20:03:31  <Phazorx> Belugas: no one belives me that there is a problem
20:03:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10344 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10317): confusion between TRACK_n and TRACK_BIT_n stopped NW/SE slopes being picked up, and compare middle of tile against current z, not previous.
20:03:50  <Smoovious> maybe  they don't see it as a problem?
20:03:51  <Phazorx> as i tray to explain - attention gets lost
20:04:08  <Phazorx> Smoovious: may be they should argue with my explanation then :)
20:04:12  <Smoovious> we have short attention spa... ooo! shiny!
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20:05:22  <Rubidium> Phazorx, as we tried to explain: we don't see it as a bug that industries lower their production over time and then die (though the dieing part is broken at the moment) as you get new industries to replace them.
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20:06:25  <Phazorx> Rubidium: 1) primaries do not die accroding to logic 2) i do see it as problem unless it is intentional that a player has to work to maintain production lelve, not to increase it
20:06:43  <Phazorx> a also see flow on math part which leads to 2)
20:06:47  <Belugas> Phazorx: enough, please
20:07:04  <Rubidium> Phazorx: the logic is flawed at this moment, but it won't be soon
20:07:26  <Smoovious> why shouldn't a player have to work to maintain levels?
20:07:28  <Belugas> if you don't lioke how they berhave, you could just write a grf that controls it to your liking and wait for newindustries to be intrunk
20:07:50  <XeryusTC> Smoovious: because if an industry doesnt get a thing transported they become full and eventually go bankrupt
20:08:11  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i am talking about value of change, which is quite lapsided in favor of decrease
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20:08:39  <Smoovious> that doesn't really answer my (rhetorical) question
20:08:46  <Phazorx> Smoovious: because they did not have to in original logic for starters
20:09:31  <Smoovious> well... imho... a player  should ha ve to work to maintain levels...
20:09:32  <Phazorx> also becasuse it appers to me as math error rather than intentional, someone assumed that using same relative chnages will resulty in balanced effect
20:10:04  <Phazorx> Smoovious: that is a matter of rpefence then, and i'd argue with you on that one
20:10:32  <Phazorx> XeryusTC: can you throw coopers config at me plz, i want to figure out why it segfaults locally
20:11:04  <Smoovious> a game shouldn't be too easy
20:11:14  <Phazorx> this is about fair rather than easy
20:11:57  <Smoovious> fair is about  all players playing by the same set of rules...
20:12:03  <Smoovious> doesn't apply here
20:12:11  <Phazorx> not necessary players
20:12:29  <Phazorx> solo game is played against logic of the game
20:12:51  <Phazorx> and i do not mean AI
20:13:17  <Smoovious> so change the logic instead of dealing with the current environment? hardly fair
20:13:27  <UnderBuilder> what about... realistic vehicle speed for rvs and ships?
20:13:46  <Phazorx> return the logic back to where it was before it was affected by lack of foresight
20:13:49  <peter1138> UnderBuilder: as long as it's 'realistic' in quotes...
20:14:02  <Phazorx> ot justify change of logic by something else rather than lack of math knowledge
20:14:25  <Smoovious> dude... insulting the intelligence of the coding team, is never a smart move...
20:14:41  <Smoovious> it is one thing finding a mistake... quite another  calling them stupid
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20:15:05  <Phazorx> i do not mean it as an insult but it really appears to me more of aknowledging of in issue being there problem rather than anything else
20:15:30  <Smoovious> where you in channel earlier when it was already acknowledged there were some issues?
20:15:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r10345 /trunk/src/ (pathfind.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp):
20:15:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#290]: Make OPF handle coming out of a tunnel as well as going into a tunnel, to support road vehicles looking back when finding a depot while in a tunnel.
20:15:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#290]: Make NPF look back when finding a depot for road vehicles.
20:15:46  <Phazorx> soe other issues - yes
20:15:52  <Phazorx> this onoe i have not seen
20:16:17  * Smoovious shrugs, "make a patch then..."
20:16:32  * Smoovious goes back to his project.
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20:20:36  <Phazorx> Smoovious: it is realy childish btw "there is no problem, and even if there is - we meant it this way"
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20:21:21  <Rubidium> Phazorx: it is your opinion that it is a problem and other people have another opinion about that subject
20:21:49  <Smoovious> their arguments, were different, than mine
20:22:43  <Smoovious> my main argument was about not having to work to maintain production...
20:23:06  <Smoovious> theirs dealt more with the code itself... mine was more abstract, about gameplay
20:23:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r10346 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix: Forgotten "else" in r10345 (thanks peter1138).
20:24:05  <Smoovious> now, I really do have stuff that is more important to me, to put my attention to...
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20:27:33  <UnderBuilder> is more players patch coming up?
20:27:56  <UnderBuilder> 16 (one per colour company) will be ok
20:28:29  <UnderBuilder> companies*
20:28:34  <UnderBuilder> but first extend max players to 32
20:28:48  <Smoovious> there is interest in more players, but it would take a lot of re-coding... it'
20:29:00  <Smoovious> it'll probably happen eventually
20:29:12  <UnderBuilder> there is a patch somewhere
20:29:14  <Smoovious> when someone decides they wanna tackle it :)
20:29:34  <Smoovious> how much testinig has it had?
20:29:50  <Rubidium> none in current trunk
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20:49:42  <Thomas[NL]> Why close the add NewGRF-file windows when a newgrf is added? If you leave it open it isn't such a pain in the ass to add a whole list of grf's.
20:52:56  *** Alanin is now known as alanin
20:56:58  <Wolf01> 'night
20:57:02  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:59:21  <UnderBuilder> what will the next suggestion of jasper?
21:00:36  <peter1138> be
21:01:22  <Thomas[NL]> pedestrians :)
21:02:37  <Smoovious> well, pedestrians would give the road vehicles something to run over... .. .
21:03:05  <Thomas[NL]> that is why he wants ambulances :P
21:03:28  <peter1138> :o
21:03:34  <Smoovious> no... I want emergency vehicles for crashes and other randomness :D
21:04:00  <Smoovious> with pedestrians, we could do with just a street-sweeper or two
21:09:03  <UnderBuilder> I think it will be... shipways
21:09:07  <UnderBuilder> lol
21:11:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10347 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
21:11:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#948]: industries with a very low production could never recover when using smooth economy.
21:11:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: in smooth economy producing industries could not close, whereas they could close in non-smooth economy.
21:11:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: in smooth economy the "do not increase production" flag of industries was ignored.
21:18:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10348 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10347): compile errors; do not think it compiles fine when you run make on the wrong working copy.
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21:37:09  <UnderBuilder> a question: currently, power stations are built only near cities or anywere in the map?
21:39:29  <Rubidium> anywhere
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21:43:41  <Smoovious> well, anywhere there isn't water... .. .
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22:09:00  <UnderBuilder> strange: in my 0.5.2 ottd lacking grf names are being shown
22:09:46  <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: that's just "luck"
22:10:00  <Rubidium> as I said before, sometimes those packets do not get through
22:10:14  <Rubidium> and it doesn't retry because it isn't vital information
22:10:31  <Rubidium> but pressing "refresh" on the server should requery the information IIRC
22:14:27  <UnderBuilder> so the possibility of a bug is low right?
22:15:12  <Rubidium> yes
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22:19:26  <peter1138> nini
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22:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10349 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp):
22:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#941, YAPF, r10301]: tile/trackdir must be used as node key and also as segment key in the cache (SmatZ).
22:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: In the past it was possible to use tile/exitdir as the key because segments
22:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: beginning on the same tile/exitdir were incorrectly considered the same. What I
22:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: still don't understand is why this bug happened only on 64 bit systems (linux,
22:30:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Win64).
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23:41:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10350 /branches/noai/ (201 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r10194:10349
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