Log for #openttd on 19th July 2007:
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00:35:29  <Belugas> Phazorx, i doubt there is much bogus code over there.  It has been accepted and verified since eons.
00:35:57  <Phazorx> well i suggest you do a test
00:36:01  <Belugas> no
00:36:09  <Phazorx> i can cap a video but it'll take more time
00:36:12  <Belugas> you provide the data
00:36:23  <Phazorx> i can do a save game. sure
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00:43:17  <De_Ghost> yea i think diagonal makes train longer
00:43:32  <De_Ghost> cuz when i put 2 train really close toget on a stright track and they tunr
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00:43:41  <De_Ghost> they crahes
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00:54:13  <Phazorx> how do i cheat... i run out of money...
00:54:25  <Phazorx> there was something but i dont recall...
00:54:27  <glx> cheat menu
00:54:32  <glx> ctrl-alt-c
00:54:47  <glx> +win if the previous one fails
00:55:42  <Phazorx> heh i have disabled win and ctrl+alt+c have global shell binding
00:55:49  <Phazorx> is there console command?
00:55:54  <glx> no
00:56:03  <Phazorx> hmm..
00:56:10  <Phazorx> any other way ?
00:57:00  <glx> edit the source to change the shortcut
00:58:23  <Phazorx> i just killed the shell
00:58:24  <Phazorx> easier
00:58:33  <Phazorx> nicve menu i must say :)
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01:36:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10621 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
01:36:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: install a struct holding the user's selection from _fund_gui.
01:36:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: merge WE_TIMEOUT and WE_ABORT_PLACE_OBJ, as they both do the same thing.
01:36:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Any time you place an industry, even if it fails, the button will reset and the cursor will return to normal.
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01:39:41  <Phazorx> Belugas: still interesed in the save ?
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01:42:30  <Phazorx> Belugas: length testcase.sav
01:42:34  <Phazorx> err
01:42:52  <Phazorx>
01:43:02  <Phazorx> more "compatible"
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10622 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h):
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Introduction of the CBID_INDUSTRY_AVAILABLE's handling, in fund industry window.
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: In order to stay as much consistent with the specs, the fund window will perform
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: (if required) the callback every game-day. TTDPatch performs the same call
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: every second, but after discussions with Csaboka, we agreed that it was not
01:47:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: required to be that intensive. So a game-day is plenty enough.
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01:55:18  <Belugas> Phazorx, i will save it, but i willnot look at it until...
01:55:20  <Belugas> well...
01:55:23  <Belugas> you know ;)
01:55:33  <Phazorx> i really suggest looking at it
01:55:44  <Phazorx> 5 minutes of your time and some lack of sleep guaranteed :)
02:06:20  <Belugas> you just said the thing i was looking for, but did not remember what it was!
02:06:24  <Belugas> Sleep :D
02:06:38  <Belugas> and no, i wil not derogate from my line of conduct.
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02:06:49  <Belugas> nothing until newindustries completion
02:06:53  <Phazorx> heh
02:06:58  <Belugas> until then, good night :)
02:07:03  <Phazorx> i hope someone will look into that tho
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08:03:44  <sniper6kk6> hi
08:05:10  <sniper6kk6> i have a question if i would add money in multiplayer (with the consense of the other player) how do I have to do?
08:05:43  <sniper6kk6> increment of the money of all player...
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08:08:43  <Smoovious> afaik, you can't...
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08:10:32  <sniper6kk6> ok... thx
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08:18:30  <Phazorx> this is like "is there a button to get to last level and kill the last boss in one hit?" yay i just won the game in 10 seconds :)
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08:20:21  <Smoovious> I like having cheats available sometimes, but most of thhe  time, I prefer not using them... part o f playing, is  thhe  challenge
08:20:36  <Smoovious> otherwise,  I'd still be playing tic  tac toe
08:24:33  <alex_> theres no challenge in openttd
08:24:49  <alex_> build a long traing line from a good coal mine to a power plant
08:24:57  <alex_> and money means nothing after that
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08:26:15  <Smoovious> ...
08:26:46  <Smoovious> there is  so challenge to it... it all depends on how you play and what your goals are
08:27:04  <Smoovious> TTD wouldn't have continnued to be as popular as it is, if there wasn't
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08:49:38  <Gekko> people still play ET from the Atari
08:49:39  <Gekko> >_>
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08:53:22  <alex_> Smoovious, i was in talking in reference to the challange of making cash obvious
08:53:24  <alex_> ly
08:53:42  <alex_> not ones own personal goals
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08:56:06  <Phazorx>
08:56:22  <Phazorx> i'd appreciate if some devs would comment on that one
09:01:29  <Smoovious> ahh... I wasn't... was talking about the overall challenge
09:02:06  <alex_> of ones goals, not the challenge of making cash
09:02:15  <alex_> :)
09:02:22  <alex_> anyway we can go around and around in circlesd
09:14:30  <JazzyJaffa> Phazorx: I think the trains are just longer on digonals, the speeds are correct
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09:17:05  <Phazorx> grrr
09:17:34  <Phazorx> it's nt only that they are longer, they are getting longer when they start goign diagonals
09:17:56  <Phazorx> as the other part shows
09:18:21  <Phazorx> trains are essentialy variable length
09:18:35  <Phazorx> depending how many cars are straight and how many are angled
09:19:34  <JazzyJaffa> yeah come from the fact you get 1 car per tile on diag and 2 on straight
09:19:51  <Phazorx> 1 car per half diagonal
09:20:17  <peter1138> screenshot of the testcase?
09:20:18  <JazzyJaffa> hang on getting my diagonal and stright confused
09:20:27  <peter1138> it's known that dimensions in ttd are not 'right'
09:20:28  <Phazorx> peter1138: it makes sesne only in action
09:20:39  <peter1138> well i can't load a game right now
09:20:41  <Phazorx> peter1138: they are also not proportional
09:20:47  <peter1138> so it's screenshot or nothing
09:20:52  <JazzyJaffa> on horizontal and vertical trains you get 1 car per tile, it should be sqrt(2)/2
09:20:54  <Phazorx> ghm...
09:21:16  <Phazorx> peter1138: hang on
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09:21:58  <Smoovious> playability comes first... besides, I'd be willing t o bet  that the reason for thhat originally had a lot  to do with making them look  good in  both directions, ,with the limited pixel c ount/arrangement available to do it in
09:23:02  <peter1138>
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09:23:26  <JazzyJaffa> but there is actually a larger gap between cars on horiz and verts
09:23:34  <peter1138> and that is coming from a well-respected TTD artist who knows what he is talking about
09:24:14  <Smoovious> seems like nit-picking to me
09:24:23  <peter1138> well
09:24:39  <peter1138> it's not going to change :)
09:25:01  <Smoovious> there's always Locomotion... .. .
09:25:14  <peter1138> hehe
09:25:19  <Smoovious> :)
09:26:18  <Phazorx> before:
09:26:54  <Phazorx> both trains traveled same distance (straight TL):
09:27:29  <Smoovious> ...
09:27:30  <Phazorx> after  all
09:28:10  <Phazorx> peter1138: my point is visual length (and one that is used for collisions) is measured with dia proportions
09:28:16  <Phazorx> and traveled distances with iso
09:28:31  <Phazorx> creating a scale factor of ~1.36 when going diagonal
09:28:44  <Smoovious> wouldn't that have more  to do with the GRF in  use anyways? like, if  a newgrf had them designed to be more proportional, would  they be?
09:28:52  <Phazorx> essentialy it shows up as enlongating the train as it goes through curve
09:28:54  <Phazorx> by 36%
09:29:31  <Phazorx> hence creating some kind of trailing zone which following train would encounter as an obstacle and slow down
09:29:56  <Smoovious> that's the way it works
09:29:56  <Phazorx> Smoovious: nope
09:29:59  <Phazorx> nothing to do with grfs
09:30:05  <Phazorx> it is game mechanics
09:30:16  <Phazorx> for some purposes all tiles always fit 2 regular cars
09:30:37  <Phazorx> so straight or diagonal tiles have same scale of 0.5 regular car
09:30:51  <Phazorx> but that only affects length
09:30:58  <Phazorx> but not traveled distance
09:31:13  <Smoovious> yes, I know
09:31:14  <Phazorx> which has different proportions depending if it is straight or diagonal
09:31:29  <Phazorx> so for straigh piece it is 1:1
09:31:37  <Smoovious> part of the limitations of the way the game wa designed
09:31:59  <Phazorx> for diagonal it is sqrt(2)*isometrics skew
09:32:08  <KUDr> [01:21:24] <Phazorx> well we are quite in diff TZs... i'll nag KUDr i guess << can you tell me what happened?
09:32:18  <Smoovious> no, it isn't
09:32:40  <Phazorx> KUDr: i was showing Rubidium some save where tram would circle w/o goign to station
09:32:47  <Phazorx> hang on
09:33:07  <KUDr> i don't worry
09:33:12  <KUDr> about trams
09:33:20  <KUDr> i never made YAPF for trams
09:33:24  <Smoovious> peter1138 already said it isn't going to change... so let the horse die in peace already
09:33:28  <KUDr> and never tested it
09:34:10  <Phazorx> KUDr: what's the difference?
09:34:22  <Phazorx> same trackcs and node based exhaustive search should be
09:34:25  <KUDr> different road type requested
09:34:32  <KUDr> (required)
09:34:41  <Phazorx> by that doesn taffect the algorithm ??
09:34:46  <KUDr> and afaik, YAPF makes no difference in that
09:34:47  <Phazorx> *but
09:34:54  <Phazorx> i think so to
09:34:59  <Phazorx> yet behavior is strange
09:34:59  <KUDr> it was made before trams were introduced
09:35:27  <Phazorx> ahh so you mean trams see road as tracks when ot comes to PFing ?
09:35:40  <KUDr> YAPF treats all roads the same
09:35:52  <Phazorx> i see... will that ever change tho?
09:36:01  <KUDr> YAPF can't see the difference between them
09:36:13  <KUDr> and such PF can't work
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09:36:19  <Phazorx> yapf can be taught to see the difference i hope :)
09:36:24  <KUDr> this is my opinion
09:36:32  <KUDr> maube i am wrong
09:36:37  <KUDr> -u+y
09:36:53  <KUDr> consult it with 'trams' author
09:37:01  <Phazorx> well, if some parts of the game are awera of such difference other parts can be changed in that way too
09:37:02  <KUDr> dunno who is that
09:37:10  <Rubidium> I added trambits checking code
09:37:25  <KUDr> into YAPF?
09:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe something similar to r10491 needed?
09:38:20  <Phazorx> nope
09:38:21  <KUDr> yeah maybe
09:38:24  <Phazorx> that one was desyncing
09:38:31  <Phazorx> this one is less ugly
09:38:58  <KUDr> for me it was suprise that guys were able to implement trams without changing YAPF
09:39:20  <KUDr> at least i missed it if it happened (YAPF change)
09:39:22  <Phazorx> that's nice to hear :)
09:39:34  <Phazorx>
09:39:47  <Phazorx> Rubidium: check that one too plz, i;d like to hear what you think about it
09:39:56  <KUDr> Phazorx: please fill bug with all the info how to repro it
09:39:58  <Phazorx> and peter1138, you too?
09:40:05  <KUDr> i will look at it on weekend
09:40:17  <Phazorx> KUDr: that might be a bit challenging but i'll try
09:40:24  <KUDr> make it cathegory YAPF
09:40:26  <peter1138> if you can't be bothered to type please, i can't bothered to look
09:40:36  <peter1138> and also, i said it is not going to change
09:40:38  <Rubidium> <- KUDr that's how I 'fixed' YAPF
09:40:42  <Phazorx> peter1138: i gave you 3 screenshots as asked?
09:41:04  <Phazorx> hmm... sad...
09:41:14  <KUDr> Rubidium: i missed that, then sorry
09:41:20  <Phazorx> seems to me as quite obvious and ugly issue
09:41:25  <peter1138> too much depends on that behaviour
09:41:35  <peter1138> we'd break newgrf compatibility for a start
09:42:02  <Phazorx> if trains travel diagonaly as sprites scale?
09:42:11  <Phazorx> how's that ?
09:42:20  <KUDr> Phazorx: Rubidium't pach seems ok, so please enter bug for me
09:42:32  <KUDr> (-t+s)
09:42:41  <Phazorx> KUDr: will do when i get to reproducing it
09:42:50  <peter1138> original sprites are too short, or the distance is too great
09:42:51  <Phazorx> current test case is a bit ugly
09:42:54  <KUDr> ok, thanks
09:43:05  <peter1138> either way, newgrf sprites generally compensate by having longer sprites
09:43:10  <KUDr> try some as simple as possible scenarion
09:43:31  <KUDr> meaning low number of verhs and so on
09:43:51  <Phazorx> peter1138: distance is calculation, there is a scale factor used somewhere, a minimal change that would affect train position would require changing that... but that's as far as it should go
09:44:36  <Phazorx> i'm not asking to scale sprites "realistically" that is unneeded... much eaier to calclate speed/travel distance in same way as scaling is done
09:44:59  <Phazorx> with 1:1 straight to diagonal, rather than 1:sqrt(2)
09:45:39  <peter1138> it's 3:4 at the moment
09:46:20  <Phazorx> well, visually it is iso proportions * sqrt(2)
09:46:22  <peter1138> i.e. at X speed it'll travel 3 tiles vertically and 4 tiles diagonally
09:47:06  <Phazorx> can it be made so it matches scale factor ?
09:47:09  <peter1138> also, the game is no isometric
09:47:11  <peter1138> *not
09:47:18  <Phazorx> and trains dont change size depending on direction?
09:47:26  <Phazorx> game is diametric
09:47:33  <Phazorx> but 3:4 is not dia proportions
09:47:43  <Phazorx> and visualy it is not 3:4 either
09:48:07  <Phazorx> they isues is not in WHAT is it, rather what it is DIFFERENT depending on wether it is length or distance
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09:49:01  <peter1138> anyway, it's not changing
09:49:20  <Phazorx> that's kidna bad :|
09:55:27  <Tlustoch> AITile::IsBuildable returns true when there's road on tile - that will be pretty bad when you will start building rails :-)
09:56:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can build level crossings
09:57:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a optimistic estimation... there might be the possibility of you placing a rail there
09:58:43  <Tlustoch> It has lot of other problems. You can decide to make water channel and it will tell you true when there will be unmoveable road in the midle of the city..
09:58:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> for proper planning later you also might need a conservative test that assures you that you can build there whatever you want to build
10:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> this "conservative" test should probably be done with a DoCommand
10:00:30  <JazzyJaffa>  If you look in the route planner patch in the forum that has a function that tells you if a track segment can be built on a tile, although it doesn't yet support building across your own tracks
10:00:45  <JazzyJaffa> or roads
10:03:42  <Tlustoch> In any case, someone should make new object into AI API that will do terraforming. Without terraforming you can't do much :-)
10:04:37  <Noldo> Tlustoch: you are a little on the "Everything to me NOW!" -side
10:05:03  <Tlustoch> Everything?? LOL. Terraforming is quite basic function.
10:05:24  <KUDr> Tlustoch: check this: << i think AI can build a road well in 90% of cases (which should be sufficient)
10:06:34  <KUDr> Terraforming is easy but it splits number of options you have to choose between to milions
10:07:00  <KUDr> which nobody has sufficient CPU power for
10:07:32  <KUDr> also it would require 'UNDO' functionality implemented
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10:08:11  <KUDr> as you need to continue the PF branch after terraforming WITH that terraforming already applied
10:08:20  <Tlustoch> You will have to deal with it sooner or later..
10:08:44  <KUDr> this is the reason why old AI tried random terraforming first and then it tried to find new path
10:09:09  <KUDr> no, AI can be simplified
10:09:24  <KUDr> and never will be as smart as human
10:09:34  <Noldo> that random terraforming makes the ground look like it was alive on 64*64 map
10:09:34  <KUDr> this is common approach in games
10:10:09  <KUDr> so AIs usually receive extra bonuses
10:10:09  <Tlustoch> and never will be as smart as human <- LOL
10:10:35  <KUDr> i.e. the old AI have paid nothing for his terraforming activities
10:11:31  <KUDr> AI can only use brute force to do the task which you use your brain for
10:11:57  <KUDr> and your brain is always more powerfull than your PC
10:12:07  <KUDr> this is today's reality
10:12:30  <Tlustoch> This is so funny.
10:12:47  <KUDr> sunny but true
10:12:55  <KUDr> -s +f :)
10:12:58  <Noldo> well the human solution is propably not that optimized
10:13:10  <KUDr> yes, but faster
10:13:21  <KUDr> human uses his experience and his guess
10:13:25  <Tlustoch> KUDr: you should check some other concepts in AI, like neural networks
10:13:31  <KUDr> which is hard to implement
10:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> human brain is very optimised for 3D extrapolation
10:13:43  <Tlustoch> brute force is not the only solution
10:14:10  <KUDr> hehe
10:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tlustoch: problem is, neural net can't be programmed very good
10:14:30  <KUDr> then i would suggest you: don't complain and bring better solution
10:14:39  <KUDr> as i told you already
10:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> to get a proper neural net, you need to train it for 18 years (like a human)
10:14:51  <JazzyJaffa> neural net is not well suited to path finding
10:14:51  <Tlustoch> That's why I am demanding terraforming object.
10:15:02  <KUDr> do it yourself
10:15:24  <KUDr> nobody will invest his effort in blind direction
10:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tlustoch: just take the GUI code calling the command, and put that into an AI function
10:15:45  <KUDr> you must have a clear vision what would be the next step
10:15:59  <KUDr> 'neural networks' is not a clear vision
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10:16:05  <Tlustoch> You will have to do this kind of object in AI API later so why not do it now?
10:16:25  <Tlustoch> Hahaha
10:16:28  <peter1138> we will? :p
10:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tlustoch: the problem is not that it has to be done, but that it has to be done properly
10:16:37  <JazzyJaffa> I have a few ideas for it, but there is no point till we have good non-terraforming algorithms
10:16:38  <Noldo> NOW! do it Now!
10:16:59  <KUDr> agree with JezzyJaffa
10:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138! newterraforming! :p
10:17:05  <KUDr> step by step
10:17:31  <KUDr> don't force us to skip the basic concept due to your chimaeras
10:17:37  <Tlustoch> Good pathfinding without terraforming will be quite useless when you add terraforming to it later.
10:17:49  <KUDr> not true
10:17:59  <KUDr> terraforming is quite expensive
10:18:00  <JazzyJaffa> no way!
10:18:10  <Tlustoch> Terraforming = _huge_ change.
10:18:19  <KUDr> yes - very huge
10:18:38  <KUDr> project for years to make good PF using terraforming
10:19:34  <JazzyJaffa> You find non-terraformed routes with varying slope avoidance, look at how much it costs to flatten each one to some degree and choose the best performance/price
10:19:43  <JazzyJaffa> it won't be optimal but it'll be ok
10:20:59  <JazzyJaffa> BTW, with the ship pf that I'm finishing, how many bits is it ok to put in TileExtended?
10:21:18  <peter1138> none
10:21:18  <KUDr> 8 or 24
10:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think with build on slopes you can do without terraforming most of the time, only thing is flattening area for station, but that does not have to do a lot with pathfinding
10:21:27  <peter1138> why would you need to add bits?
10:21:35  <KUDr> region id
10:21:46  <JazzyJaffa> <- what KUDr said
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10:22:19  <peter1138> how many regions do you anticipate?
10:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> concerning regions, wouldn't it be better to use some kind of union-find algorithm based on tile coordinates?
10:22:33  <KUDr> some thousands
10:22:57  <JazzyJaffa> With just one type of region (water ATM) we have 2000 on 1024x1024
10:23:17  <peter1138> ok
10:23:22  <JazzyJaffa> but with different types that may go up
10:23:23  <peter1138> why do you need to add bits though?
10:23:34  <peter1138> there are already 50 unused bits for water tiles
10:23:40  <Rubidium> JazzyJaffa: putting it in TileExtended basically means you want to save it and you cannot determine it one loading the savegame, is that correct?
10:23:46  <KUDr> wow, true!
10:24:23  <JazzyJaffa> Good point Rubidium, we don't need to save this information
10:24:44  <JazzyJaffa> Would it be better off somewhere else in that case?
10:24:56  <KUDr> TileExtended doesn't necessarily mean that it must be saved
10:25:13  <Rubidium> KUDr: yes and no
10:25:32  <Rubidium> all _m and _me stuff is saved and people assume that that happens, so not doing so might give trouble
10:25:47  <Rubidium> especially when people think that there are 4 free bits in there and use that for something
10:26:26  <KUDr> if you keep it somewhere else the only benefit would be more code
10:26:37  <KUDr> but ok, this is a good reason
10:27:04  <Rubidium> KUDr: how many lines of more code?
10:27:11  <KUDr> so JezzyJaffa: probably another YAPF cache
10:27:14  <Rubidium> maybe 3 for reallocing it on map resize
10:27:14  <peter1138> there's no reason you can't store it in the map, but you don't need to extend the map data for that
10:27:21  <KUDr> Rubidium: dunno
10:27:41  <JazzyJaffa> I'd like to support the possibility of a tile being in more than one region (eg coast tiles with rail and water)
10:27:57  <peter1138> coast tiles can't have rail
10:28:03  <Rubidium> coast tiles shouldn't be seen as water
10:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> recalculating on load always has the problem that changes to it have to be deterministic, for multiplayer synchronisation
10:28:12  <Rubidium> peter1138: why can't they?
10:28:17  <peter1138> Rubidium: half-coast tiles should be
10:28:24  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, but those regions are meant to be used for land tiles too (only bit later)
10:28:26  <peter1138> Rubidium: because when you have rail on it it becomes a rail tile
10:28:37  <Rubidium> true
10:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> not if half-foundations are ever implemented :)
10:29:32  <JazzyJaffa> but for planning: before the rail is built it is both rail and water passable
10:29:59  <Rubidium> only the half coast tiles
10:30:24  <JazzyJaffa> yes, only the half ones, an annoying exception case
10:31:03  <peter1138> KUDr: i only saw "ship pf" therefore assumed it's water tiles only
10:31:26  <KUDr> true for now, yes
10:31:26  <JazzyJaffa> sorry I should have explained that the region code can also be used for land navigation
10:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> land navigation as in (AI) route finding?
10:32:23  <JazzyJaffa> yes
10:32:48  <KUDr> and gui auto-rail/aut-route
10:32:57  <KUDr> (auto-road)
10:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's kinda the same thing :)
10:33:14  <KUDr> yes
10:33:21  <KUDr> but not only for AI
10:33:48  <KUDr> but for land it doesn't need to be in sync with other players
10:33:58  <hylje> :
10:34:10  <KUDr> so theoretically land can use extra chunk of memory elsewhere
10:34:13  <hylje> autoroute :o
10:35:02  <hylje> so we could have towns connected randomly in map generation?
10:35:08  <JazzyJaffa> why doesn't it need to be in sync?
10:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> JazzyJaffa: route finding is only local, then the commands are issued locally, which then are synched automatically
10:36:29  <JazzyJaffa> ah ok, I see the difference, in water ship pf has to be in sync
10:36:43  <KUDr> yes
10:36:54  <KUDr> so it will be benefit to use free water bits
10:37:35  <KUDr> hylje: check
10:37:48  <KUDr> for auto-road concept proof
10:38:20  <JazzyJaffa> is probably possible, however, I'm not sure that its good to save/load region data. Its more complicated than regenerating it.
10:38:54  <KUDr> it will be saved if you use those free bits
10:39:04  <KUDr> and you don't need to care
10:39:16  <hylje> highlit e route?!
10:39:16  <hylje> sweeet
10:39:34  <JazzyJaffa> saved as a number yes, but then you have to build the regions from the numbers in the tiles
10:39:39  <KUDr> hylje: as i said - it is only proof of concept
10:39:47  <JazzyJaffa> I guess its not that hard, just more code
10:40:17  <KUDr> you can build tem normally and just check if they match
10:40:38  <KUDr> because they have to match
10:40:48  <JazzyJaffa> ah-ha that would be better, as otherwise would have to save region "center of mass" somewhere as well
10:41:02  <JazzyJaffa> I think that is best
10:41:04  <KUDr> true
10:41:12  <KUDr> so don't worry
10:42:10  <JazzyJaffa> bah, just thought of a problem with checking - if regions are updated in game on terraforming, the layout will not be the same as a fresh region find
10:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you need to store "center of mass" or something similar, you could place a buoy in that region
10:43:05  <JazzyJaffa> 2000 bouys on a map??
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10:43:49  <KUDr> why not?
10:44:00  <KUDr> would be nice to see it
10:44:01  <Timwi> Hi
10:44:09  <Timwi> NickServ doesn't recognise me, who do I contact about this?
10:44:20  <JazzyJaffa> I can do that as an option anyway
10:44:27  <KUDr> yes
10:44:30  <JazzyJaffa> you're right it could be fun
10:45:00  <JazzyJaffa> have you seen the region screenshot Eddi|zuHause2?
10:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> no...
10:45:12  <KUDr> and you can also add 'region id' into tile info '?'
10:45:30  <JazzyJaffa>
10:46:00  <JazzyJaffa> Yes, good idea, at the moment I'm displaying them with a cargo icon on each tile for debugging!
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10:47:36  <blathijs> 12:39 < hylje> highlit e route?! <-- NPF could do that as well, by removing the grass under tracks. Of course that broke totally in multiplayer and at other random moments, since it was an ugly hack :-)
10:48:05  <hylje> :o
10:48:45  <JazzyJaffa> So I'll just use some of the spare water tile bits for now
10:48:57  <KUDr> blathijs: this is bit different (highlight tool for road planner - roads that don't exist yet)
10:49:00  <JazzyJaffa> hopefully should be finished later today
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10:49:43  <Timwi> OK, NickServ works again, thanks :-p
10:49:58  <JazzyJaffa> I need to code for "ship is lost" state aswell
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11:02:46  <Timwi> Do any of you ever organise online games btw?
11:02:59  <Timwi> I would like to be able to watch an expert player play the game -- if that was possible online that would be great
11:14:13  <Smoovious> just check around on the  servers...  plenty of experts that don't code...
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11:17:28  <Nickman> how do I get the "CompanyIndex" from a given AICompany in the NoAI branch?
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11:18:36  <Rubidium> what do you means with "a given" AICompany?
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11:19:23  <SierraRomeo> good morning
11:19:25  <Smoovious> the one he wants
11:19:46  <Rubidium> Smoovious: but then he needs to have something of that company
11:19:59  <Nickman> I thinkI found i in the enumeration
11:20:10  <Nickman> I have the company object :)
11:20:22  <Rubidium> morning? morning is long gone ;)
11:20:33  <Smoovious> just defining 'a given'
11:21:10  <Nickman> a company object that I have available Smoovious :)
11:21:27  <SierraRomeo> and i thought i can say good morning in every time of day : )
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11:25:09  <SierraRomeo> has anyone ever thought about or tried to code into openttd shunting and train splitting ? i mean like to make engine go somewhere, then order to attach rolling stock (full of coal, eg.) and move it to station, and have it shunted to another train (instead of unloading cargo and loadig it to another train in feeder system)
11:25:40  <Nickman> there is a thread about that somewheren on the forums :)
11:27:05  <SierraRomeo> i can't find it : (
11:27:22  <SierraRomeo> Nickman: don't you rember name of thread ?
11:27:32  <Nickman> not really sorry :s
11:27:36  <Nickman> been a while since I saw it
11:28:19  <SierraRomeo> okay i'll go to find it myself : )
11:29:31  <Nickman> :)
11:29:33  <Nickman> good luck ;)
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11:31:14  <Ailure> gnn
11:32:20  <Nickman> why isn't the class "String" used instead of the old C string ? "const char *name" ??
11:32:56  <Noldo> because
11:32:59  <Smoovious> the source hasn't been fully converted to C++ yet
11:33:30  <Nickman> yeah, I know, but in the NoAI brach (wich is fairly recent?) they also keep using it?
11:33:50  <Noldo> then it's the coder's preference
11:34:06  <Smoovious> the priority isn't converting from C to C++ there
11:34:30  <Nickman> it would be easyer to read and more typesafe ;)
11:34:36  <Noldo> true
11:34:59  <Smoovious> perhaps, but it hasn't been changed... so it is  still the old form
11:35:05  <Nickman> ;)
11:35:19  <Nickman> I'm trying to figure out why my AI doesn't get the name I give it :D
11:35:45  <Smoovious> link?
11:36:08  <Nickman>
11:36:10  <Nickman> second last post
11:37:52  <Noldo> :D
11:38:17  <Nickman> I changed some stuff, lets see if it works now
11:38:20  <Nickman> nope
11:38:38  <Noldo> you are adding int to char*
11:39:10  <Nickman> could be the problem indeed...
11:39:15  <Noldo> it is
11:39:20  <Nickman> that's why I would like some C++ Stirngs instead of C strings
11:39:21  <Nickman> :p
11:39:37  <Noldo> that makes it move the the starting character by i
11:39:45  <Nickman> yeah...
11:39:49  <Smoovious> so use C++
11:40:00  <Nickman> I am! :p
11:40:04  <Noldo> you can use std::string and .c_str there
11:40:07  <Ailure> hmm
11:40:08  <Ailure> noai
11:40:10  <Ailure> wooh
11:40:12  <Nickman> :p
11:40:13  <Ailure> My summer is saved
11:40:20  <Ailure> I forgot about it
11:40:23  <Ailure> heh
11:41:52  <Nickman> :)
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11:43:22  <Ailure> I played with it on it's early stages
11:43:24  <Ailure> and forgot about it
11:43:25  <Ailure> <<
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11:47:46  <hylje> :o
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12:06:28  <Nickman> ok, now that the naming is in order for my AI, I need to make it do something :D
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12:28:48  <Nickman> hi Osai :)
12:28:56  <Osai> hi
12:33:44  <Tlustoch> How do I check if AITileList already contains some Tile?
12:34:54  <TrueBrain> HasItem
12:36:13  <Nickman> hi TrueBrain :)
12:36:51  <Tlustoch> Heh. My mistake - it's too hot here.
12:38:03  <Nickman> TrueBrain, could you check the question in my latest post?
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14:55:30  <Progman> why is there a "return (int32)a;" at ClampsToI32() in macros.h? this line can't be reached, can it?
15:01:37  <peter1138> surely it can
15:03:56  <Progman> dont get it why. either its less 0x80000000 and this value is returned or greater 0x7FFFFFFF and this value is returned. looks like all possible values are catched which these two ifs
15:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> Progman: 0x7... is negative
15:05:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> err, no
15:05:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> 0x8...
15:05:44  <Timwi> in which case "less than 0x80000" is always false?
15:06:02  <glx> no because you clamp an int64
15:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, a is int64, so if a is very negative, it gets set to the lowest int32
15:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> if a is very positive, it gets set to the highest int32
15:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> in any other case, the value is returned unchanged
15:06:42  <Progman> aren't there any predefined int-max-min values like MAX_INT and MIN_INT?
15:06:54  <Progman> okay, now it makes sense
15:09:25  <Nickman> glx, you know why in the NoAI branch all the functions are non static but still need parameters like if the function would be static?
15:09:53  <Nickman> For example in ai_town.cpp, when you want to get something from a town, you need to give the TownID
15:09:59  <peter1138> where did i hide my cvs repo?
15:10:34  <Nickman> but you can't acces these functions in a static way, so you need to make a useless instance of AITown just to be able to acces them?
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15:11:11  <peter1138> isn't the instance already there?
15:11:18  <peter1138> it's not like you're making a new town
15:11:33  <Nickman> that's treu, but I cant acces the intance?
15:12:03  <UnderBuilder> aargh I do a patch -p0 patch.diff and the command seems to be freezed
15:12:13  <glx> you forgot <
15:12:16  <glx> or -i
15:12:22  <UnderBuilder> oh
15:12:23  <Nickman> All I got is this peter1138 :
15:12:26  <Nickman> and AITownList
15:12:33  <Nickman> there I can get the ID of the town
15:12:46  <UnderBuilder> ready
15:13:00  <UnderBuilder> next step: ./configure :)
15:13:03  <Nickman> but to be able to get the tile of the town for example, I need to make an object of AITown and then call a procedure that should have beens tatic?
15:16:02  <UnderBuilder> now other trouble: I have zlib installed but the ./configure doesn't detect it
15:16:53  <peter1138> zlib or zlib headers?
15:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> probably need zlib-devel
15:25:48  <TrueBrain> Nickman: some functions are static, some aren't
15:25:56  <TrueBrain> most of the time, if they are non-static, they need to access 'this'
15:26:10  <TrueBrain> which mostly means they need to build something or what ever
15:26:27  <TrueBrain> so yeah, you need to make an instance of AITown and access it, like the regression test shows
15:26:41  <Nickman> so I have to do this to get a location of a town
15:26:41  <Nickman> 		AITown tempTown;
15:26:41  <Nickman> 		AITile = tempTown.GetLocation(town);
15:26:49  <Nickman> ?
15:26:59  <Nickman> where town is the ID
15:27:09  <TrueBrain> GetLocation is static :)
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15:27:29  <glx> AITown::GetLocation(town);
15:27:32  <TrueBrain> so: local tile = AITown.GetLocation(town) works :)
15:27:34  <TrueBrain> (in SQ)
15:27:39  <TrueBrain> in C++ it is what glx says :)
15:27:40  <Nickman> ah, I see in the header file
15:27:51  <Nickman> yeah
15:28:01  <TrueBrain>
15:28:05  <Nickman> sorry, been a while since I've been programming in C++ ;), it's all coming back now :D
15:28:06  <TrueBrain> also gives the static and non-static ones
15:28:10  <Nickman> thanx
15:28:27  <TrueBrain> it has to be said that some functions are currently non-static while they can be static
15:28:33  <TrueBrain> like GetMaxTownID and GetTownCount
15:28:37  <Nickman> :)
15:29:27  <glx> indeed they should be static I think
15:31:48  <Nickman> I'm building a very simple bus station AI :)
15:31:56  <Nickman> well, at least trying to :D
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15:32:27  <glx> start with intracity lines
15:32:34  <Nickman> yeah, that's my plan ;)
15:32:46  <heythere> been looking through forums, but can't find it, what is the last nightly to include PBS?
15:32:47  <Nickman> For the valulators I use this at the moment
15:32:48  <Nickman> 	AITownListPopulation tmpValuate;
15:32:48  <Nickman> 	town_list.Valuate(tmpValuate);
15:32:57  <Nickman> is this correct?
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15:36:03  <glx> town_list.Valuate(AITownListPopulation()); should work
15:36:14  <UnderBuilder> now when I try to run the game it throws an error that says that the md5 of trg1r.grf is incorrect
15:36:20  <Nickman> I'll try it agian, I think I got a compile error then...
15:36:55  <Nickman> yep, it works :p
15:36:58  <Nickman> thanks ;)
15:37:05  <UnderBuilder> I copied the data files from a usb memory device
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15:43:04  <Nickman> glx, maybe you should add a function that gives you a list of all the town owned tiles?
15:43:46  <Nickman> because you don't know how big the city is... or you have to make a geuss according to the population?
15:45:40  <TrueBrain> pretty hard to do
15:45:45  <Nickman> yeah?
15:45:52  <TrueBrain> currently there is no simple logic to find the radius of a town
15:46:04  <Nickman> you can acces the center tile of the city?
15:46:14  <TrueBrain> 'access'?
15:46:32  <Nickman> so if you just make it expand around that tile to all sides and check if that tile is stille of the town or not?
15:46:44  <Nickman> you can get the tile number of the center of the town?
15:46:47  <TrueBrain> but how do you define what is still town :)
15:47:00  <TrueBrain> yes, GetLocation gives the 'center' of the town
15:47:13  <Nickman> when you use the query function ingame you get the owner of the tile
15:47:18  <Nickman> can't you do that to?
15:47:27  <TrueBrain> if I have a 2kx2k map
15:47:32  <TrueBrain> with 2 towns on each side of the map
15:47:39  <TrueBrain> when does 1 town stop? And when does the other start?
15:47:45  <TrueBrain> does it depend on if there is still housing?
15:47:45  <glx> we can get tile owner around center tile
15:48:25  <Nickman> so, when one of thowe tiles is owned by the town, can't you recursivly check that tiles neighbours?
15:48:33  <TrueBrain> and if you want a list with all the houses owned by a town, that is tricky too, as you ned to browse the whole map to be 100% sure
15:48:33  <Nickman> to see who owns them?
15:48:46  <TrueBrain> a tunnel can extend a town over several tiles
15:48:58  <TrueBrain> (a bridge too btw)
15:49:07  <glx> and house can be over player owned road
15:49:11  <glx> when town grows
15:49:12  <Nickman> yes, but if you use an expanding algorithm, you can follow all those routes?
15:49:24  <Nickman> indeed...
15:49:26  <TrueBrain> it is possible, yes, but will cost a good share of CPU
15:49:32  <TrueBrain> and then I wonder if it is really that useful
15:49:42  <Nickman> so you won't actually be able to get ALL of the tiles, but you would be able to get a pretty good estimate?
15:49:49  <glx> town population already gives a good idea of town size
15:49:53  <Nickman> yeah...
15:50:24  <Nickman> but, in the beginning if I make a bus stop, I could say, look around in a rectange about 30 squares around the center of the town
15:50:35  <Nickman> but when the town starts to grow, you need to increase that number
15:50:44  <TrueBrain> use something like the sqrt of the population
15:50:45  <Nickman> but then again, this can be done according to the population
15:50:48  <Nickman> yeah
15:50:56  <Nickman> would be a good plan I guess ;)
15:50:57  <TrueBrain> also a good estimate I guess ;)
15:51:01  <Nickman> indeed :)
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15:55:01  <marc-andre> hiho
15:55:34  <Nickman> hi
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16:01:40  <Nickman> is it possible to see how far from the edges a certain TileIndex is?
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16:02:59  <glx> AIMap::DistanceFromEdge()
16:03:40  <Nickman> :D, cool
16:03:41  <Nickman> thx
16:04:14  <glx> guess the class that should have the function and check the doc ;)
16:04:33  <Nickman> yeah :)
16:04:33  <Nickman> :p
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16:10:47  <Nickman> so many includes in C++... :p
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16:12:05  <TrueBrain> Nickman: the API is pretty big, yes :)
16:12:13  <Nickman> yeah :D
16:13:27  <Nickman> with AITileListNeighbourRoadCount I get a number between 0 and 8 I guess?
16:13:35  <TrueBrain> 0 and 4, as the comment tells you
16:13:44  <TrueBrain> please, do read the documentation
16:13:51  <TrueBrain> we didn't type all those lines for you to ask them here :p
16:13:59  <Nickman> hehe :d
16:14:06  <Nickman> I am reading the api, and it doesn't say it :s
16:14:16  <Nickman>
16:14:54  <Nickman> also in the code it doesn't specify those numbers... :s
16:14:59  <TrueBrain>
16:15:10  <TrueBrain> it indeed isn't duplicated to AITileList, silly :)
16:15:22  <Nickman> ah :D
16:15:24  <Nickman> ;)
16:17:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10623 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tilelist_valuator.hpp: [NoAI] -Documentation: document AITileListNeighbourRoadCount a bit more
16:17:38  <TrueBrain> how about that :p
16:17:44  <Nickman> hehe :D
16:17:46  <Nickman> thx ;)
16:18:02  <TrueBrain> if you find more (poorly) documented functions that needs more info, let me know
16:18:11  <Nickman> I will ;)
16:18:23  <Nickman> but documentation is looking good ;)
16:18:29  <TrueBrain> we did our best
16:18:36  <Nickman> I can see ;)
16:18:39  <TrueBrain> it is one of the most important things of the whole API
16:18:39  <TrueBrain> so..
16:18:45  <Nickman> indeed...
16:20:36  <Digitalfox_Desktop> TrueBrain: You think NoAI will be in 0.6 or still a lot of work witch could take many months ( Of course 0.6 could also take a lot of months to be release )?? :)
16:20:55  <TrueBrain> Digitalfox_Desktop: completely unknown at this stage
16:21:23  <TrueBrain> first we do need to finish ship, train and tunnel support
16:21:23  <Nickman> To be able to distribute a C++ AI, you will have to make new binaries right? :)
16:21:30  <Digitalfox_Desktop> yep :)
16:21:35  <TrueBrain> Nickman: yes
16:21:40  <TrueBrain> that is why SQ is more powerful for AIs
16:21:45  <Nickman> yeah...
16:21:52  <Nickman> so, why am I working in C++ again? :D
16:21:53  <Nickman> lol
16:21:56  <Digitalfox_Desktop> Is airplanes NoAI ready? :\
16:21:59  <TrueBrain> and as it is really simular to C++, I suggest everyone to use SQ over C++
16:22:28  <TrueBrain> Digitalfox_Desktop: WrightAI is the first working AI example, using airplanes
16:22:29  <TrueBrain> so, yes
16:22:48  <Digitalfox_Desktop> Oh i thought road vehicles was ready and you were still working in planes :)
16:23:12  <TrueBrain> no, planes are very much done :)
16:23:15  <TrueBrain> ships are easy too
16:23:22  <TrueBrain> trains is looking more easy every day
16:23:25  <TrueBrain> tunnels is a bitch
16:23:33  <TrueBrain> and then I have tons of small things that I would like to include
16:23:45  <Nickman> what is so hard about tunnels?
16:23:51  <TrueBrain> as currently I am working on event-system, and it fails badly :s
16:23:51  <Digitalfox_Desktop> Nice hear :) ( Apart from tunnels hehe )
16:23:56  <Digitalfox_Desktop> *to hear
16:23:56  <TrueBrain> Nickman: they are black holes...
16:24:03  <Nickman> treu...
16:24:17  <TrueBrain> making it possible to build them is easy
16:24:30  <TrueBrain> but we also need to make it possible that you guys can use it in a simple way :)
16:24:45  <Nickman> indeed ;)
16:25:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10624 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp window.h): -Fix [FS#1047]: the production of banks could not be modified (either in scenario editor or with the cheat).
16:25:19  <TrueBrain> and currently I need a squirrel expert
16:25:35  <TrueBrain> (embed squirrel expert)
16:26:00  <Nickman> Can't help you there :D
16:26:06  <KUDr> what exactly is the problem with squirrel now?
16:26:32  <TrueBrain>  { local a = AITest(); }
16:26:40  <TrueBrain> a is delete at the end, perfect
16:26:41  <TrueBrain> now I want:
16:26:51  <TrueBrain> { local a = AITest.GimmeAClass(); }
16:26:53  <TrueBrain> to do the same
16:27:18  <TrueBrain> but AITest is a SQ Class, so it is handled internally
16:27:18  <Nickman> is there a good editor for Squirrel? with some syntaxhiglighting or so? or dousn't it exist? :)
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16:27:33  <TrueBrain> GimmeAClass() creates a SQ class in C++, but it is pushed to the global stack, not the local....
16:27:38  <TrueBrain> Nickman: kdevelop supports it
16:27:39  <TrueBrain> vim too
16:27:41  <TrueBrain> :p
16:27:46  <Nickman> on windows? :D
16:30:09  <Nickman> you don't have to specifie types in Squirrel I see?
16:30:20  <TrueBrain> nope, internally converted
16:30:38  <Nickman> like PHP ;)
16:30:41  <TrueBrain> yes
16:30:51  <TrueBrain> only a bit more type-checking
16:31:01  <Nickman> :)
16:31:58  <KUDr> GimmeAClass() creates a SQ class in C++, but it is pushed to the global stack, not the local.... << so the local variable 'a' is global then?
16:32:11  <TrueBrain> ha! Finally found it!
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16:32:29  <KUDr> ?
16:32:42  <TrueBrain> I finally found out how to solve my lovely problem :)
16:32:55  <Nickman> great! :)
16:33:15  <Nickman> I'll be converting my C++ basic AI into Squirrel tomorrow or so :)
16:33:18  <Nickman> I'm off now ;)
16:33:20  *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away
16:33:22  <TrueBrain> bye :)
16:33:55  <Nickman^Away> thx for the help so far ;)
16:33:58  <TrueBrain> np :)
16:35:25  <skidd13> LOL you can build oilrigs on canals
16:35:53  <KUDr> TrueBrain: what is the solution then?
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16:36:27  <TrueBrain> KUDr: some stack fiddling, and now found the right order of things
16:36:37  <KUDr> aha
16:36:59  <KUDr> yes, SQ and LUA are the same in those stack issues
16:37:16  <TrueBrain> lack of documentation really is a problem here
16:37:16  <Noldo> KUDr: I wonder if he is cryptic on purpose
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16:38:15  <KUDr> Noldo: who is cryptic?
16:38:20  <TrueBrain> KUDr: I have the idea I leave tons of things in the stack which I should remove :p
16:38:36  <TrueBrain> then I read patches of others, and notice tons of things they added :p
16:38:48  <KUDr> yes, true
16:38:52  <TrueBrain> like sq_settop
16:39:00  <TrueBrain> I notice it doesn't do something noticable :p
16:39:04  <TrueBrain> or sq_remove(vm, -2)
16:39:18  <TrueBrain> okay, it removes an item from the stack, but... I don't notice anything bad of leaving it there either :p
16:39:31  <KUDr> yes, settop is my favourite (it took me long headache in LUA to realize that it is there)
16:39:42  <TrueBrain> but what it's function is.... no idea :p
16:39:57  <TrueBrain> okay, I have a good idea
16:40:01  <TrueBrain> but it mostly works in either case
16:40:18  <KUDr> it should set the stack to the same position as it was when you called gettop
16:40:27  <TrueBrain> yeah
16:40:32  <KUDr> if you use gettop return value for settotp
16:40:34  <TrueBrain> but as said, it rarely really matters :p
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16:40:42  <TrueBrain> but okay, I left it alive in most cases
16:40:51  <KUDr> it matters if you call something in a loop
16:41:07  <KUDr> otherwise it grows your stack if not cleaned properly
16:41:11  <TrueBrain> true
16:41:21  <TrueBrain> so someone should check that in NoAI :p
16:41:22  <TrueBrain> haha
16:42:07  <TrueBrain> but with settop, using remove seems useless
16:42:39  <KUDr> remove removes just one item and the other one can be used for the next call
16:43:06  <Wolf01> hello
16:43:07  <TrueBrain> oh well, I hope someone with in-depth knowledge will once upon a day walk my code and see what can be improved :)
16:43:09  <TrueBrain> hi Wolf01
16:43:20  <TrueBrain> for now, I need to add that counted class stuff
16:43:25  <TrueBrain> else double-free's suck!
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16:45:41  <TrueBrain> finally the sound of QMusic is found
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16:55:05  <Chicago_R_A> hello all
16:56:07  <Progman> - so far so good ;)
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17:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> shouldn't you rather document complicated functions instead of trivial functions?
17:08:39  <TrueBrain> trivial functions need documentation too
17:08:44  <TrueBrain> as they aren't as trivial as you sometimes assume
17:08:48  <TrueBrain> so I say: good work :)
17:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i often find people rolling eyes when i say "that is trivial" :p
17:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> but a max(a,b) function really should be self-explanatory
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17:12:58  <Belugas> any kind of GOOD documentation is usefull
17:13:24  <Belugas> when all the futile and trivial are done, the more complex ones can be done
17:13:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10625 /branches/noai/src/ (38 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: returning C++ classes, by creating a temp SQ class, had its problems, this should fix them all (double-frees, wrong scope, ..)
17:13:52  <Belugas> unless, Eddi|zuHause2, you would like to join this documentation effort, and concentrate on the mind blowing ones :D
17:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> fine, then give me a function i should challenge :)
17:15:30  <Belugas> let me see...
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17:17:35  <Progman> I must document bottom-up as I cannot know how all the other classes/enum/macros works
17:18:10  <Progman> sure, it would be cool if high-level functions can be defined, but I can't ;)
17:18:22  <Progman> s/defined/documented/
17:20:24  <Progman> where should I add the diffs, at FS or at the forum?
17:21:02  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, strangely enough, with all the time i've spent on it, i did not care to document industry_cmd.cpp :)
17:21:11  <Belugas> and there are funny stuff in there :D
17:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> Progman: the forum is a bad place for diffs
17:22:56  <Progman> and FS is checked less than the forum, imho :(
17:23:12  <glx> we get notice for each FS change
17:23:24  <glx> #openttd.notice
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17:23:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10626 /trunk/src/lang/american.txt:
17:23:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-19 19:23:12
17:23:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 4 fixed by WhiteRabbit (4)
17:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> void ResetIndustryCreationProbility(IndustryType type) <- what is a "Probility"?!?
17:24:00  <Progman> ah, okay
17:24:14  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2: a typo :D
17:24:17  <glx> probably a typo ;)
17:24:28  <peter1138> probily a typo ;)
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17:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> ;)
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17:26:28  <rav> hello
17:28:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10627 /trunk/src/lang/ (40 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#1052]: be consistent with the space between the company name and the player number, i.e. always put a space between them.
17:29:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10628 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.h economy.cpp newgrf.cpp): -Fix (r10606,FS#1055): Revert r10606 and fix the plural problem another way.
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18:44:32  <Chicago_R_A> Rich, are you around?
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18:46:16  <Phazorx> KUDr: yapf/trams thingy was fixed soemwhere between 532 and 620 apparently
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18:46:48  <lolman> oh noes
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18:47:16  <lolman> lol
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18:47:40  <lolman> Sacro, quick hint: the name ben will get you booted ;)
18:47:53  <Sacro> lolman: oh?
18:48:00  <lolman> * Sacro is now known as ben
18:48:00  <lolman> * ben has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:48:04  <lolman> Twice :P
18:48:11  <Sacro> whoops
18:48:12  <rav> lol
18:48:14  <Sacro> didn't change that
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18:49:26  <Sacro> i had to reinstall x-chat on my laptop, didn't have it configured correctly
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19:18:13  <KUDr> Phazorx: aha, then ok, better for me :)
19:19:41  <Phazorx> KUDr: i am curious about 532
19:19:47  <Phazorx> cuz behavior there was strange
19:20:03  <Phazorx> and cant find anything in change log that might have affected it
19:20:23  <KUDr> hmm will look there
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19:29:06  <Ammler> actual nighlies are a little bit buggy, does it help something, if we update from 620 to 628?
19:29:25  <Phazorx> i can give yuo save with every vehicles but problem ones stopped
19:29:34  <Phazorx> but it is still huge save with lost of stuff
19:30:10  <Phazorx> on 620 - problem does not exists, trams go where they are supposed to, same happens if yappf is off
19:30:49  <Tlustoch> Water is buildable too? That's quite unexpected.
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19:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tlustoch: yeah, you can e.g. build bridges there
19:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> or docks/buoys
19:32:31  <KUDr> Phazorx: you are right - there are no relevant changes - so it could be problem of compiler - needed make clean and then make
19:32:45  <KUDr> it happens time by time
19:32:46  <Phazorx> did to :)
19:33:04  <Phazorx> both 532 and 620 were mrpropered
19:33:16  <KUDr> hmm
19:33:20  <KUDr> then i dunno
19:33:40  <KUDr> do you have that savehame? I can try it on msvc
19:33:43  <Tlustoch> I thought that buildable is meant for land
19:33:53  <KUDr> w/ 10532
19:34:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i understood that "buildable" means you can do something with it without clearing first
19:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you can do, what you want, is another question
19:35:30  <Tlustoch> IMHO this concept is quite bad. You should make one for water/road/rail.
19:35:40  <Phazorx> yup
19:36:26  <Phazorx> KUDr: i can serve actually
19:36:48  <KUDr> server w/ 10532 ?
19:37:04  <Phazorx> err... with some effort yes :)
19:37:13  <KUDr> no
19:37:27  <KUDr> i have other patches applied here
19:37:38  <KUDr> (acceleration, etc.)
19:37:51  <KUDr> do you have savegame?
19:38:00  <Phazorx>
19:38:05  <KUDr> thanks
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19:38:43  <KUDr> compiling
19:38:52  <Phazorx> RVs 304,404,405 are the problem ones
19:39:32  <Phazorx> 308 and 407 had same issue but Rubi's workaround helped them
19:39:41  <Phazorx> he suggested skiping station once
19:39:50  <Phazorx> and these started finding their way just fine
19:40:10  <KUDr> hmm
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19:40:18  <KUDr> then it is not yapf issue
19:40:26  <KUDr> yapf is stateless
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19:40:45  <KUDr> changing something in orders can only change vehicle state
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19:40:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> unless it's a cache issue
19:41:02  <KUDr> it is weird if it helps to switch yapf off
19:41:07  <KUDr> no
19:41:12  <KUDr> no cache for RVs
19:41:20  <KUDr> only for trains
19:41:55  <Phazorx> KUDr: rubidium said the same thing
19:42:09  <Phazorx> and since it fixed 2 other trams i assumed they have other issue
19:42:22  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
19:42:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> !logs
19:42:27  <Phazorx> strange thing - before switching yapf on i had no RVs with negative inxome
19:42:39  <KUDr> :)
19:42:56  <KUDr> yapf is sending your money to my account :)
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19:43:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10629 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (36 files): [NoAI] -Fix: on returning a class instance which is NULL, do not make a wrapper SQ, but return a NULL pointer too
19:43:23  * Phazorx fires his accountant
19:44:21  <KUDr> 404 must have this error
19:44:45  <KUDr> it is HTTP error code for missing target
19:48:47  <KUDr> Phazorx: your savegame seems to work fine (including those trams) on 10532
19:49:03  <KUDr> so the problem must be on your computer
19:49:04  <Phazorx> KUDr: these particular ones?
19:49:17  <KUDr> or between monitor and chair
19:49:23  <KUDr> yes
19:49:27  <KUDr> 304
19:49:28  <KUDr> 404
19:49:33  <Phazorx> rubidium observed same on his :/
19:49:36  <KUDr> both work well
19:49:38  <Phazorx> and suggested bugging you
19:49:52  <KUDr> so then it is linux/gcc issue maybe
19:50:05  <KUDr> i am testing it on winxp/vc8
19:50:08  <Phazorx> i'm on win32
19:50:16  <KUDr> and compiler?
19:50:21  <Phazorx> gcc 3.3.4
19:50:28  <KUDr> try vc8
19:50:36  <Phazorx> last time compiler issue turned into 10491 :|
19:50:40  <Phazorx> dont have it
19:50:41  <KUDr> and watch those trams
19:50:47  <KUDr> download it
19:50:50  <KUDr> it is free
19:50:58  <Phazorx> i know :)
19:51:08  <TrueBrain> use nightly?
19:51:10  <KUDr> it is much better than your vim
19:51:17  <Phazorx> hell no
19:51:30  <TrueBrain> (as in: nightly compiled binary :p)
19:52:14  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: after 10295-10491 desyncs i trust my gcc 3.3.4 :)
19:52:28  <TrueBrain> We don't :)
19:52:55  <Phazorx> well it was working as rests, who used nighty offical one were desyncing
19:53:34  <blathijs> 21:51 < KUDr> it is much better than your vim <-- how can there be anything better than vim?
19:53:40  <blathijs> apart from chocolate, of course
19:53:42  <Phazorx> KUDr: i cant say i favor vim much but i dont like IDE in general
19:53:51  <blathijs> ;-p
19:54:09  <KUDr> yes, it is only question of taste
19:54:22  <Phazorx> so not to be used in argument :)
19:54:24  <KUDr> i am stupid mouse clicking windoze user
19:54:43  <KUDr> so VC8 fits better to my hands
19:54:43  <Prof_Frink> blathijs: emac-aaaargh
19:54:48  <Phazorx> my text editor is mouse friendly as well
19:55:10  <KUDr> Phazorx: i wanted to motivate you to test it
19:55:20  <KUDr> or i can give you my binary
19:55:37  <Phazorx> that actualy sounds good
19:55:44  <Phazorx> dcc plz
19:55:45  <KUDr> ok, wait
19:55:48  <Phazorx> dont need langs
19:55:58  <Phazorx> i'm compiling 532 anyway
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19:57:25  <KUDr> ok, you have it
19:57:30  <Phazorx> thansk you
19:57:49  <KUDr> don't thank we are hunting my bug probably
19:58:06  <KUDr> so i am thankfull
19:58:31  <peter1138> the word is 'please'
19:58:48  <KUDr> word for what?
19:58:55  <KUDr> sorry for my stupidity
19:59:37  <peter1138> not you :)
19:59:42  <KUDr> ahh
19:59:45  <KUDr> plz?
19:59:56  <KUDr> it is quite common
20:00:12  <Phazorx> petere you should avoid using smiles too
20:00:17  <KUDr> only conservative british don't like it
20:00:34  *** stillunk1own [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00:40  <Prof_Frink> Do I look like a fscking Tory?
20:00:40  <Phazorx> replace it with "i am delighted to say so, and my face is shining with  positive emotions"
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20:00:54  <KUDr> hehe
20:01:11  <blathijs> plz is for people who dislike typing
20:01:21  <KUDr> like me :)
20:01:23  <blathijs> and as I said, I like vim, so I use "please" :-)
20:01:27  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
20:01:28  <KUDr> so i understood well
20:01:32  <Belugas> hey, i'm not british, and "plz" seems to me like a big error...
20:01:43  <Phazorx> blathijs: you are probably also offended  by me doing "bla<tab>" to type your name :)
20:02:05  <KUDr> heh
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20:02:17  <blathijs> ph<tab> no
20:02:34  <Phazorx> :)
20:02:55  <Phazorx> i dont like typing... i think humans must really come up with way more advanced ways of sharing information
20:03:00  <Prof_Frink> And I bet you hate me copy-pasting every character from somewhere else on the screen
20:03:01  <Phazorx> cuz language, especialy verbal is lacking :)
20:03:10  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
20:03:46  <Phazorx> imho, trext is just a form of communication and as long as it is understandable - server this purpose just right
20:04:12  <Phazorx> "plz" is very quick to type and i can save time to state soemthing mroe important like this nonesense :)
20:04:38  <Prof_Frink> Phazorx: Just enable tab-completion from /usr/dict/words
20:04:41  <KUDr> and i see it everywhere
20:04:50  <KUDr> also in emails
20:04:58  <Prof_Frink> KUDr: Just because it's common doesn't mean it's right
20:05:08  <KUDr> what is right?
20:05:17  <KUDr> that what people understand
20:05:22  <Phazorx> "Just because it is common does not mean it is right"
20:05:22  <Prof_Frink> I mean, there's loads of French people in France. Doesn't mean it's OK to be French.
20:05:26  <Rippsy> Proper spelling and punctuation in emails is nice, on irc punctuation and grammer are dropped, but spelling should remain at least mostly right
20:05:26  <KUDr> language is way to communicate
20:05:30  <KUDr> and it develops
20:05:47  <peter1138> ah, the old "develop" excuse for being a lazy shit
20:05:52  <Rippsy> on a mobile phone where its price per character used, i can see why people abbrivate so much
20:06:06  <Rippsy> KUDr, development is usually helpful, 'txt spk' is not helpful
20:06:34  <Phazorx> this is  phonetical issue
20:06:46  *** Tobin [] has quit []
20:06:46  <Phazorx> unfortunately most language use symbols that represent letters rather than sounds
20:07:07  <peter1138> "plz" does not sound like "please"
20:07:19  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: pls is worse.
20:07:31  <Prof_Frink> It sounds like a proprietary playlist format
20:07:34  <Phazorx> peter1138: it does sound close enough to me :)
20:07:35  <peter1138> actually i'd prefer pls. it is at least the right letters.
20:07:37  <Rippsy> lol
20:07:50  <KUDr> czech lang has exact phonetic rules for letters - you don't need to know the word but you can read it right
20:08:01  <KUDr> english is terrible opposite of it
20:08:01  <peter1138> you probably think "your" and "you're" sound the same too
20:08:02  <Prof_Frink> English has that too
20:08:04  <Phazorx> KUDr: all slavianic langiuages do
20:08:14  <KUDr> yes
20:08:16  <Phazorx> you can read outloud w/o undesrstanding it
20:08:17  <Prof_Frink> Just we have exceptoions. And lots of them.
20:08:36  <KUDr> only exceptions
20:08:40  <KUDr> no rules at all
20:08:44  <Rippsy> I quite like english structure
20:08:45  <Phazorx> KUDr: but i bet there are stil lsome things that have to be read/written in certain way
20:09:01  <KUDr> don't think so
20:09:07  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Did you see the thing on the BBC news about teaching fucked-up english because kids are too dumb to learn properly?
20:09:07  <Rippsy> KUDr, there are many rules defining the constructs of an english sentance (many of which I neglect)
20:09:16  <KUDr> you always read what you see
20:09:18  <Rippsy> Prof_Frink, i saw that - classic
20:09:22  <Phazorx> KUDr: modal verbs variations are most common case
20:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Prof_Frink> And I bet you hate me copy-pasting every character from somewhere else on the screen <- sometimes i have it that an application freezes and eats all keyboard input (even virtual keyboard, i tried), so i have to use the mouse and a console window to kill that app (in the case i can find out which one)
20:09:39  <KUDr> Rippsy: phonetical rules for letters
20:09:52  <KUDr> totally missing - only exceptions
20:09:57  <Rippsy> examples
20:10:07  <KUDr> whole english
20:10:11  <Rippsy> ...
20:10:15  <KUDr> now and know
20:10:20  <Phazorx> hebrew and farsi are good example of letter savings
20:10:24  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: I just turn on another computer, SSH in and killall -9 the offending app
20:10:25  <Rippsy> Those are pronounced differently
20:10:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, english speaking and english writing have absolutely nothing in common
20:10:31  <Phazorx> as well as old slavianic langueges
20:10:33  <Rippsy> "know" is pronounced "no"
20:10:39  <Phazorx> that skip vowels in writings
20:11:11  <KUDr> know ind czech would be the same as k-now
20:11:29  <KUDr> exactly same except missing k in 'now'
20:11:40  <peter1138> laughter. daughter.
20:11:43  <Rippsy> idd
20:11:44  <KUDr> but english have them totally different
20:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only language that is worse in that is french
20:11:49  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: ghoti
20:11:52  <KUDr> same for letter 'i'
20:11:59  <KUDr> several ways how to read it
20:12:05  <KUDr> and many others
20:12:14  <Rippsy> same for most languages based on latin though?
20:12:15  <KUDr> so only exceptions and no rules
20:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> Rippsy: no, italian is spoken almost exaclty like it is written
20:12:36  <KUDr> but latin itself is not so
20:12:41  <Prof_Frink> KUDr: There is one rule:
20:12:42  <Rippsy> I said most, not all ;)
20:12:46  <peter1138> latin is not spoken :)
20:12:48  <Phazorx> yeah.. dissociation  of letters and soudns arent very helpful
20:12:50  <Prof_Frink> We are right. You are wrong.
20:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> spanish is similar to italian
20:13:12  <Rippsy> There's plenty of exceptions in spanish (at least I seemed to find them when I tried to learn it)
20:13:14  <orudge> We should all speak Icelandic.
20:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> although it has some strange exceptions
20:13:18  <Rippsy> lol orudge
20:13:20  <Phazorx> toki pona ftw
20:13:21  <KUDr> so 'right' means 'confusing'
20:13:23  <Phazorx> or at least esperanto :)
20:13:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> (like "Gibraltar")
20:13:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> but those are easy, too, and have some logic behind them, if you know them
20:13:44  <orudge> Eg flýt um i neðarsjávar hýði a hóteli beintengdur við rafmagnstöfluna og nærist.
20:13:53  <Prof_Frink> quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
20:14:00  <Rippsy> I don't have the font set for that orudge
20:14:02  <Rippsy> all that does is hurt my eyes :D
20:14:15  <Rippsy> Prof_Frink, do I even want to know what that translates too?
20:14:18  <orudge> They're standard "Western European" characters, although encoded in UTF-8 of course.
20:14:25  <Phazorx> Rippsy: it looks like that language have at least twioce as many eltters as english
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20:14:36  <Prof_Frink> Rippsy: Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound
20:14:37  <Rippsy> not many languages you can say that about Phazorx ;D
20:15:09  <Rippsy> I find english more logical then dutch at least..
20:15:18  <Rippsy> but then i've never been one for languages as a strong point
20:15:25  <Rippsy> have enough issues with english :)
20:15:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i find english more stupid than german
20:15:37  <Rippsy> I always had a lot of trouble with tenses in german
20:15:42  <Prof_Frink> Rippsy: There's a reason for the phrase "Double dutch"
20:15:45  <Rippsy> :D
20:15:48  <Rippsy> not just me then
20:16:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> the basic rules of english are very simple, but you get an awful lot of exceptions with them
20:16:26  <Rippsy> I'd agree with that
20:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> the basic rules in german are more complex, but exceptions are much rarer
20:16:31  <orudge> Mig langar að skera og rista sjálfan mig á hol! :(
20:16:33  <Rippsy> also true
20:16:48  <Rippsy> I found sentance construction in german almost impossible
20:16:48  <Prof_Frink> orudge: You take that back.
20:17:02  <orudge> :(
20:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> sentence construction in german is an art :)
20:17:31  <Rippsy> A nessecery or overly complex art though?
20:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can write whole books in one sentence, and the last word totally changes the meaning of the first :)
20:17:41  <KUDr> but is similar to czech (which is otherwise totally different)
20:18:29  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: At least they don't write whole books in one word any more
20:18:32  <KUDr> also other stupid things are the same (du/sie)
20:18:35  <Rippsy> christ ok im just gonna drop this and go back to monging out, im no where near knowledgable about languages other then english let alone english to put up a decent argument, especially when im not even sure what we are arguinga bout, since as far as I could tell it was about the brutalisation of english into abbrivated language
20:19:30  <orudge> Móðir vor sem ert á jörðu, heilagt veri nafn þitt.
20:19:42  <orudge> I have no idea what the argument is about, either.
20:19:46  * orudge is simply quoting Icelandic
20:19:49  <orudge> because Icelandic is fun
20:20:02  <Rippsy> :D
20:20:06  <Rippsy> Right im going back to my film
20:20:06  <Rippsy> :P
20:20:07  <Rippsy> hf
20:21:38  <Prof_Frink> orudge: I can speak icelandic too:
20:21:58  <Prof_Frink> "Buy one pack of burgers, get one free!"
20:22:12  <orudge> I don't like Iceland.
20:22:27  <orudge> They're sexist! Suggesting you have to be a mum to shop there, or whatnot!
20:22:29  <orudge> Disgusting!
20:22:32  <peter1138> does the DEVIL want to FUCK YOU in the back of his CAR?
20:22:40  <orudge> peter1138: no, that's Prof_Frink.
20:22:44  <rav> lol
20:23:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is like the most famous (or at least one of) "Schachtelsatz" from german literature: "Mitnichten hat die Nase meiner Wirtin, deren Namen Eulalia, wie Sie die Güte, sich zu erinnern, hatten, lautet, geblutet, aber mich hatte morgens die Polizei, da ein Fahrrad, das ein Mann, der eine graue Jacke, die vielfach geflickt war, trug, fuhr, mit einem Auto, das auf der Strasse, die über die Geleise, die vom Bahnhof, der unmittelbar bei
20:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> meiner Wohnung liegt, kommen, führt, entlangkam, zusammenstiess, gebeten, meine Beobachtungen als Zeuge zu Protokoll zu geben."
20:25:01  <Prof_Frink> * Eddi|zuHause2 collapses from exhaustion
20:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> (it's from Dieter Noll - "Die Abenteuer des Werner Holt")
20:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, that's an easy one, you don't collapse from that...
20:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, the guy in the book collapses after finishing that sentence, but because he was sick :p
20:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> another one: "Sprich mit langen, langen Sätzen - solchen, bei denen du, der du dich zu Hause, wo du ja die Ruhe, deren du so sehr benötigst, deiner Kinder ungeachtet, hast, vorbereitest, genau weisst, wie das Ende ist, die Nebensätze schön ineinander geschachtelt, so dass der Hörer, ungeduldig auf seinem Sitz hin und her träumend, sich in einem Kolleg wähnend, in dem er früher so gern geschlummert hat, auf das Ende solcher
20:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> Periode wartet...nun, ich habe dir eben ein Beispiel gegegeben. So musst du sprechen."
20:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> (Kurt Tucholsky - "Ratschläge für einen schlechten Redner" [Advise for a bad speaker])
20:29:05  * Prof_Frink recites Vogon poetry at Eddi|zuHause2
20:30:53  <ln-> speaking of famoous people, we often forget Johann Gambolputty-de-von-Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crass-cren-bon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelter-wasser-kurstlich-himble-eisenbahnwagen-guten-abend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwürstel-gespurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumeraber-schönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittleraucher-von-Hautkopft of U
20:32:01  <rav> yea we do :o
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20:32:20  <rav> it's either forgetting to mention him
20:32:28  <rav> or the fact that he might not be worth mentioning
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20:32:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, and Karl Ranseier is dead
20:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- examples of "Karl Ranseier ist tot" messages :)
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20:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> it was a running joke in a german tv comedy series, they generally start like "Karl Ranseier is dead, the probably most unsuccessfull <insert random profession here> of all times. <insert totally rediculous description of the profession here>"
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20:38:52  <TrueBrain> WrightAI: [INFO] We have a crashed vehicle (1038), buying a new one as replacement
20:38:52  <TrueBrain> WrightAI: [INFO] Done building an aircraft
20:38:54  <TrueBrain> How cool is that!
20:40:01  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Does it build two small airports in two villages about 10 squares apart, neither of which accept mail, and then build 20 747s to service them?
20:40:35  <TrueBrain> <- even more profit :)
20:41:03  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: no
20:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Dear Mrs. XYZ, we regret to inform you that your husband died in a plane crash at ABC Airport. We already ordered a replacement airplane for the route, hope you will fly with us again."
20:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Vote Quimby."
20:41:49  <TrueBrain> it took 900 lines of C++ code to make it possible to detect aircraft crashes :p
20:42:11  <ln-> TrueBrain: is there a significance in that the date is september 11th?
20:42:23  <TrueBrain> only in your mind
20:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> 900 lines? you only have to hook into the messaging system, or not?
20:42:43  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: and create the message system towards the AIs
20:42:54  <TrueBrain> <- FYI :p
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20:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Karl Ranseier died for example of [...] trying to divide himself by zero." <- he's like an inverse chuck norris :)
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21:36:24  <MUcht> once again, our servers reached max_clients :-(
21:38:00  <TrueBrain> poor MUcht
21:38:11  <MUcht> poor #openttdcoop
21:38:31  <MUcht> I'm in, gladly
21:38:48  <TrueBrain> you should start randomly kick people :p
21:39:33  <rav> yea, people like getting booted :)
21:39:46  <MUcht> kick the worst and/or best constructor maybe
21:40:07  <TrueBrain> or of course make a patch :)
21:40:50  <MUcht> we need an ingame-applet with a voting-system - everyone can vote a player to be kicked and banned for 30 minutes
21:42:22  <Prof_Frink> MUcht: Better, and admin/oper window that allows you to fine/disable companies
21:42:43  <Prof_Frink> disabling would essentially make the owner temorarily a spectator
21:42:52  <TrueBrain> I see a patch coming up :)
21:43:08  <Prof_Frink> Am not coder
21:46:24  <MUcht> hmmm
21:46:38  <MUcht> Prof_Frink: we gain 10 spectators in that case
21:46:49  <MUcht> I don't think thats the perfect solution
21:47:40  <Prof_Frink> Well, it could also have "kick player" and "remove company" buttons
21:48:01  <MUcht> how about a "increase max_clients" button?
21:48:14  <Prof_Frink> That's crazytalk
21:48:25  <XeryusTC> hmmr
21:48:35  <XeryusTC> why annoy the devs here, when they got a dedicated channel ;)
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22:26:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10630 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix: allow enums to not have a predefined value for Squirrel
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22:39:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10631 /branches/noai/ (20 files in 7 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: AIEvent, to take care of events; for now it only reports when vehicles are crashed
22:41:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:41:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10632 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event.hpp: [NoAI] -Documentation: fix the documentation for AIEvent Constructor
22:48:30  *** bT|bot [] has joined #openttd
22:48:43  <bT|bot> greetings..
22:49:03  *** bT|bot is now known as Thardas
22:50:04  <Thardas> anyone may quickly know what diff_level i have to set for custom diff?
22:50:27  <glx> 3
22:50:35  <Thardas> ah thanks :)
22:50:57  <Thardas> so 0 is easy, 1 mid and 2 hard i guess?
22:51:09  <glx> yes
22:51:13  <Thardas> okay thx :>
22:51:25  <Thardas> ima write it down into the wiki so i can look it up on any time heh
22:56:43  <Thardas> ah by the way.. is EUR the valid value for the european currency?
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23:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10633 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
23:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added GetVehicleType and AIVehicle::VehicleType
23:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: use 'vehicle', not 'town' in AIVehicleListValuator ;)
23:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: don't output pointers in regression as they change on systems and runs
23:02:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> src/settings.cpp:1308:    SDT_OMANY(GameOptions, currency,  SLE_UINT8, N, 0, 0, CUSTOM_CURRENCY_ID, "GBP|USD|EUR|YEN|ATS|BEF|CHF|CZK|DEM|DKK|ESP|FIM|FRF|GRD|HUF|ISK|ITL|NLG|NOK|PLN|ROL|RUR|SIT|SEK|YTL|SKK|BRR|custom", STR_NULL, NULL, NULL), <- does that answer your question?
23:02:58  <Thardas> thx :)
23:03:05  <Thardas> it does
23:03:37  <glx> and you are allowed to put it on the wiki ;)
23:03:59  <Thardas> hehe
23:04:10  <Thardas> yea ima put it on a soon as i'm ready with my servers :D
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23:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: grep currency src/settings.*
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23:10:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10634 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.hpp: [NoAI] -Documentation: of course I forgot to document the VehicleType enum
23:15:33  <Thardas> Finally all servers work :D
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23:27:00  <TrueBrain>
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23:28:48  <OzBabe> hi all
23:28:48  <Thardas> <all> hi OzBabe
23:29:03  <OzBabe> hi that
23:29:06  <Thardas> welcome
23:29:27  <OzBabe> ty, i need some help with running aprogram plz
23:29:30  <Thardas> come again :P
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23:31:39  <OzBabe> huh???, i only just got here, giggles
23:37:05  <OzBabe> Dale, you here plz????
23:37:27  <Thardas> phew... i did the whole thing about currency..
23:37:39  <Thardas> but now you all got a nice page more in your wiki :D
23:37:51  <OzBabe> lol
23:37:53  <Thardas> you haven't lost your sence of humor, OzBabe
23:38:04  <OzBabe> nope, lol
23:38:07  <Thardas> what's the problem?
23:38:12  <Thardas> well there is :D
23:38:22  <Thardas> at least in the open ttd wiki thingy
23:38:31  <OzBabe> i downloaded  grf codec and grf wiz progrogram
23:38:35  <glx> Thardas: nice page :)
23:38:39  <Thardas> thx :>
23:39:02  <OzBabe> i can get the  wizard to run
23:39:10  <OzBabe> but not the codec
23:39:41  <OzBabe> when i try to point the wizard to   the codec it wont show up
23:40:18  <OzBabe> <<<Scratches head at  programming things, lol
23:40:21  <Thardas> :))))
23:41:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> you might have more luck at the patch channel...
23:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, that is weird... according to a study therer are 162 million people with internet connection in china, but only 67 million computers...
23:43:51  <glx> !calc 162/67
23:43:51  <Thardas> glx, result is: 2.41791
23:43:53  <_42_> glx: 2.4179104477;
23:44:13  <glx> too much bots in this channel :)
23:44:41  <OzBabe> hey, im not a bot,:))
23:44:44  <Thardas> wazzup?
23:45:02  <OzBabe> well, last time i checked i was'nt anyways, :))
23:45:06  <glx> Thardas: can you disable your !calc script for this channel please
23:45:09  <Digitalfox_Desktop> whats the adress of patch channel?
23:45:17  <Thardas> lol
23:45:30  <Thardas> sec.. ima go on my mirc on my comp..
23:45:41  <Thardas> i was just online on my rootserver cuz i was working over here
23:45:45  <Thardas> :D brb
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23:47:49  <Thardas> ok i'm back
23:47:53  <Thardas> with my bnc *lol*
23:49:00  <OzBabe> pmsl
23:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, this stupid client does not understand /join 0 :p
23:50:57  <Digitalfox_Desktop> How can i be connected to different irc networks at the same time?? Like being connected to Quakenet #tycoon and still be in openttd channel?
23:51:16  <colle> depends on the irc-client
23:51:49  <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well i use Chatzilla
23:51:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i don't
23:52:00  <colle> no idea :(
23:52:11  <colle> use a proper irc-client :)
23:52:19  <Digitalfox_Desktop> like what?
23:52:30  <colle> irssi, mirc, xchat
23:53:23  <Digitalfox_Desktop> You can be connected to different networks in mirc?? ( i'm not talking about channels in the same network )
23:53:33  <colle> yes
23:53:58  <glx> chatzilla should be able to do that too
23:55:17  <Digitalfox_Desktop> glx: I'm reading it's faq, and it's possible, but with some commands i'm trying right now..
23:55:22  <OzBabe> ok cya   all l8trs, hugz n luv, Leanne
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23:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> did anybody understand that line?
23:59:12  <glx> looks like a forum post ;)

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