Log for #openttd on 29th August 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:32  * you need to sleep
00:02:40  * you should go to bed right away
00:02:51  *** you is now known as Bjarni
00:02:54  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:04:50  <MrBrrr> argh
00:05:00  <MrBrrr> Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm.
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00:32:43  <Belugas> [20:05] <MrBrrr> Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm.  <---- one of the reasons I HATE "realism" ;)
00:32:58  <Belugas> good night me too, me saying to all of you :)
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08:20:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10996 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
08:20:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Feature: [OSX] added more options for right click emulation (controlled from the interface tab in the patch window)
08:20:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  This only works with the cocoa drivers (you will use the cocoa drivers unless you manually switched to SDL and compiled yourself)
08:20:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  Note: if control-click is selected, then the ingame control-click (like presignals and such) will be command-click
08:20:30  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  Requested and tested by ln- (so he should be blamed if this goes wrong :P )
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08:39:45  <Nickman> hi all
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09:41:13  <Bjarni> wow, this channel have been swarmed with Danes lately
09:42:40  <Bjarni> why? :)
09:44:06  <ln-_> maybe denmark has established a connection to this Internet that the rest of the world has been using since 90's.
09:45:03  <Bjarni> naa, I would have known such a change
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09:45:21  <Bjarni> btw ln-_: you are mentioned in the changelog. Aren't you happy?
09:46:04  <ln-_> i'm also mentioned in irssi changelog. i'm famous.
09:46:35  <Bjarni> well, right now I just wanted someone to blame if it went wrong and you appeared as the best candidate for this task
09:46:41  <Bjarni> :P
09:47:00  <Bjarni> why are you in the irssi changelog?
09:47:28  <ln-_> i submitted a patch.
09:48:07  <Bjarni> sounds scary
09:51:07  <ln-_> well since you asked,
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09:56:09  <Bjarni> looks rather nice
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11:33:20  <Sacro> mmm, shall i do some more sprites
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11:53:13  * peter1138 ponders upgrading to hardy heron
12:01:08  <Sacro> ooh
12:01:16  <Sacro> peter1138: Linux From Scratch 6.3 is out!
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12:02:34  <peter1138> why bother?
12:03:56  <Sacro> someone has a LOT of spare time
12:04:00  <Sacro> building LFS on a 386
12:04:58  <Sacro> hahaha, 3 bogomips
12:05:28  <glx> huge memory amount ;)
12:05:31  <glx> (for a 386)
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12:07:32  <Sacro> yeah, its not bad
12:09:40  <peter1138> blah, qemu crashes :(
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12:09:53  <peter1138> hmm, only with kqemu
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12:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> !calc 1532281/3600
12:10:24  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause3: 425.6336111111;
12:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> !calc 1532281/3600/24
12:10:34  <_42_> Eddi|zuHause3: 17.7347337962;
12:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is an awful lot of time for one package :p
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12:47:29  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: is that 17 *DAYS*?
12:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah :)
12:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> more like 18 ;)
12:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> 2 1/2 weeks :)
12:49:03  <Sacro> well
12:49:08  <Sacro> it takes dedication i suppose
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13:45:39  <Kloopy> I've just been browsing the wiki and can't find what I'm looking for.. I've got a Metropolitan airport that I want to upgrade to an International one. How do I do this without breaking the route of my 8 or 9 aircraft visiting this airport?
13:48:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> Kloopy: find a time where no aircraft is on the airport, remove it, and build a new one
13:48:34  <Kloopy> IF it has the same name as the old one, do my aircraft still find it?
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13:50:31  <Progman> if you delete a station the name will be there for some time as gray-label, if you place the new station there the name (and the orders) will used
13:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you don't place the new airport too far away from the old one, all orders will be kept
13:55:56  <Kloopy> Fantastic.
13:56:03  <Kloopy> Thanks for your help Eddi, Progman. :)
13:57:14  <Sacro> wow
13:57:29  <Sacro> i think ./configure --build=i486-mingw32
13:57:32  <Sacro> might actually work
13:59:13  <Sacro> hmmm
13:59:19  <Sacro> i have no freetype package installed :(
13:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> --without-freetype?
14:00:46  <Sacro> ahh i like it
14:00:56  <Sacro> just installing mingw32-libpmg
14:00:59  <Sacro> s/m/n/
14:02:38  <Sacro> hmm
14:02:49  <Sacro> nobody flagged libpng as depending on zlib
14:04:32  <glx> that's a known thing :)
14:04:39  <Sacro> what is?
14:04:52  <glx> libpng needs zlib
14:04:59  <Sacro> ahh yes
14:05:11  <Sacro> well the guy who wrote the package didn't put it as a needed dependancy
14:05:15  <Sacro> so i just flagged it
14:19:33  <Sacro> holy...
14:19:40  <Sacro> thats an awful lot of errors
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14:20:14  <Sacro> yapf/yapf_ship.o:yapf_ship.cpp:(.text$_ZN16CYapfFollowShipTI16CYapfShip_TypesTI10CYapfShip213CFollowTrackTIL13TransportType2ELb1EE20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfShipNodeTI19CYapfNodeKeyExitDirELi14ELi16EEEE15ChooseShipTrackEP7Vehiclej13DiagDirection9TrackBits[CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShip2, CFollowTrackT<(TransportType)2, true>, CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyExitDir>, 14, 16> > >::ChooseShipTrack(Vehicle*, u
14:20:14  <Sacro> nsigned int, DiagDirection, TrackBits)]+0x1a82): more undefined references to `operator delete[](void*)' follow
14:20:17  <Sacro> was the last one
14:20:23  <Sacro> looks like g++ isn't happy
14:20:31  <MrBrrr> Hi all.
14:21:27  <Sacro> hmm
14:21:33  <Sacro> is it 2&>1
14:21:54  <Sacro> i want to dump stderr to a text file
14:21:56  <Sacro> hey MrBrrr
14:24:44  <MrBrrr> Hmmm.
14:24:56  <MrBrrr> Changing one thing sometimes means quite a lot of work x_x
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14:27:36  <Sacro> hmmm
14:27:41  <Sacro> where is $(MAKE) defined
14:29:24  <ln-_> it isn't
14:29:46  <Sacro> it doesn't seem to be able to link g++ stuff
14:30:01  <ln-_> make doesn't link stuff.
14:30:32  <Sacro> well no
14:30:35  <Sacro> but it calls the linker
14:31:02  <Sacro>
14:32:13  <MrBrrr> Any train buffs around?
14:32:17  <MrBrrr> I have one or two questions.
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14:37:58  <ln-_> Sacro: without the actual linking command that output is not very useful.
14:38:08  *** ln-_ is now known as ln-
14:38:11  <Sacro> mmm, true
14:38:15  <Sacro> how do i find the linking command?
14:38:33  <glx> make VERBOSE:=1 ?
14:38:34  <ln-> ask the dummies who decided to hide the commands.
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14:39:25  <Sacro> i486-mingw32-g++ -mno-cygwin -Wl,--subsystem,windows -static rev.o  ai/ai.o
14:39:56  <Sacro> hmm
14:40:04  <Sacro> shouldn't it be calling ld?
14:40:19  <glx> g++ does it
14:40:21  <Sacro> ottdres.o  -lstdc++ -lws2_32 -lwinmm -lgdi32 -ldxguid -lole32 /usr/lib/libz.a -L/usr/lib -lpng12 -lz -lm  -o openttd.exe
14:40:23  <Sacro> is the ened
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14:41:21  <Sacro> ah-ha
14:41:24  <Sacro> tis not /usr/lib
14:42:13  <Sacro> but theres no way to specify the lib dir via ./configure
14:42:34  <glx> LDFLAGS=... ./configure
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14:42:51  <glx> ./configure --help should tell it too
14:42:58  <Sacro> it doesnt
14:43:00  <Sacro> oh
14:43:02  <Sacro> yes it does ><
14:44:26  <Sacro> and it quite niftily ignores them
14:45:28  <Sacro> [ben@server trunk]$ LDCONFIG=-L/usr/i486-mingw32/lib ./configure --host=i486-mingw32 --without-freetype
14:45:34  <Sacro> using LDFLAGS... -lstdc++ -lws2_32 -lwinmm -lgdi32 -ldxguid -lole32 /usr/lib/libz.a -L/usr/lib -lpng12 -lz -lm   -mno-cygwin -Wl,--subsystem,windows -static
14:45:58  <Sacro> help if i spelt it right
14:46:04  * glx slaps Sacro
14:46:09  <Sacro> :)
14:46:11  <glx> use LDFLAGS
14:46:16  <glx> not LDCONFIG
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14:46:23  <Sacro> yay, i have an exe!
14:46:32  <MrBrrr> Hazzah!
14:46:45  <Sacro> i'm used to CFLAGS AND CXXFLAGS
14:46:58  <MrBrrr> I've got a question: can electric trains go in reverse? (IRL)
14:47:09  <glx> IRL yes
14:47:28  <Sacro> it charges them up
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14:48:06  <MrBrrr> Hmmm.
14:55:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> germany had steam engine that could be controlled from a drivers cab at the other end of the train
14:56:50  <MrBrrr> Hmmm.
14:57:05  <MrBrrr> Wouldn't that mean that they'd be "blind" while going forward and/of backwards?
14:57:28  <glx> the driver is still in front of train
14:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the driver goes to the end that will be the front
14:57:50  <MrBrrr> Hmmm.
14:57:57  <MrBrrr> Will it go as fast in reverse?
14:58:03  <MrBrrr> I mean, if it's pushing the wagons?
14:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it's pretty symmetric
14:58:19  <MrBrrr> Nice.
14:59:56  <glx> MrBrrr: never used subway ?
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15:02:50  <MrBrrr> Yeah.
15:02:56  <MrBrrr> But I never actually wondered about it all.
15:04:13  <MrBrrr> Especially with modern subways.
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15:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> pretty much all modern trains are now built with a drivers cab at the other end
15:11:52  <MrBrrr> Hmmmm, nice.
15:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's one of the most missing "realism" features of ottd...
15:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause3>
15:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause3>
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15:14:53  <ln-> notice how german trains do not have mirrors.
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15:16:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> the "train leader" always stands on the platform giving starting signal
15:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's no need for mirrors
15:17:29  <glx> they have video here
15:18:22  <glx> (B&W but it's enough)
15:18:23  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: even in freight trains?
15:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no idea about freight trains
15:20:39  <MrBrrr> I'm trying to find out how to remove that automatic "turn-around" trains do in TTD.
15:20:53  <MrBrrr> Without creating an even bigger "realism" problem.
15:21:18  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
15:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, not turning the train around is probably easy, just declare the last wagon as "front engine", with all cached data etc., and update all "first" pointers of the vehicles
15:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> the next problem is disallowing that for trains where it is not realistic
15:24:49  <MrBrrr> Exactly.
15:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then allow switching the engine at terminus stations, without turning the wagons
15:25:07  <glx> Bjarni already tried
15:25:17  <MrBrrr> Anywho, off to campus. Cya all later.
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15:28:37  <ln-> i have also tried making trains not turn when reversing, but without much success.
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15:28:54  <ln-> i ended up having wagons travel alone, etc.
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15:44:39  *** Ammller is now known as AmmlerHasLoooooooooooooooooooo
15:45:28  <Noldo> great
15:45:36  *** AmmlerHasLoooooooooooooooooooo is now known as Ammler123456789012345678901234
15:45:52  *** Ammler123456789012345678901234 is now known as Ammler
15:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> err...
15:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> someone is awfully bored, i believe :p
15:49:14  <AntB> nah
15:49:40  <AntB> Ammler was just seeing about max nixk lengths
15:49:43  <AntB> *nick
15:50:19  <Ammler> oh, sry, didn't thought about that happens on every channel
15:50:23  <Ammler> :)
15:50:25  <AntB> lol
15:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> why not simply look at the "NICKLEN=30" entry in the server window?
15:52:24  <ln-> Ammler: why not try /nick 0 ?
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20:51:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10997 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Codechange: unify the vehicle view window. Patch by PhilSophus.
21:01:13  *** St|off is now known as Stoffe
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21:08:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10998 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp:
21:08:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: refactor of the "core" of the terraforming code to make it possible
21:08:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: to push the tile type specific terraforming requirements out of the generic part
21:08:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: of the terraforming code. Patch by frosch. For more information take a look at
21:08:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: FS#1147.
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21:21:16  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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21:27:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10999 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Codechange: unify the way the running cost of a vehicle is determined. Patch by nycom.
21:27:49  <svip> :O
21:27:53  <svip> Soon r11000!
21:28:00  <TrueBrain> party?
21:28:07  <Bjarni> sure, why not
21:28:15  <svip> I've heard worse excuses to drink.
21:28:16  <TrueBrain> I get the flowers
21:28:18  <Bjarni> or should it be r11111
21:28:52  <TrueBrain> or will it be 0.5.3? :p
21:28:57  <TrueBrain> 0.6? Nah!
21:28:58  <Bjarni> svip: <--- from last party
21:29:08  <svip> I've seen it. :D
21:29:09  <svip> Awesome.
21:29:10  <Bjarni> you missed it
21:29:13  <svip> Yeah.
21:29:13  <Bjarni> and so did I :(
21:29:15  <svip> :(
21:29:19  <svip> Danes always miss out.
21:29:24  <svip> That's why the British bombed us.
21:29:24  <TrueBrain> so buy your ticket for next time already
21:29:40  <Bjarni> it wasn't a ticket issue
21:29:46  <ln-> you could announce the party a little bit more in advance next time.
21:29:49  <Bjarni> the issue was that I had to build that robot
21:30:10  <Bjarni> even if we planned it months in advance, I couldn't make it
21:30:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truelight * r11000 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp:
21:30:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix r10121: when introducing the new blitter system, smallmap regained an old bug: buffer-overflow when moving window to far bottom-right.
21:30:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  -Note: we no longer cheat on not drawing the last line in smallmap, this time we created a more elegant fix
21:30:19  <Bjarni> but ln- got a point
21:30:19  <svip> :O
21:30:20  <svip> PARTY!
21:30:33  <TrueBrain> okay, more in advance...
21:30:37  <TrueBrain> next year
21:30:38  <TrueBrain> :p
21:30:40  * Prof_Frink does the n-thousand commit dance
21:30:42  * TrueBrain celebrates
21:30:48  <_Ben_> yey!
21:30:49  * glx too
21:31:03  <TrueBrain> yo cheetah
21:31:07  <TrueBrain> he bananah
21:31:11  <TrueBrain> he monenkey
21:31:12  <TrueBrain> get funkey!
21:31:19  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: 1.0 party. At the pub over there -->.
21:31:19  <TrueBrain> monenkey? Lol!
21:31:24  *** elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31:28  <ln-> there's like a much better chance to get flight tickets for ~150€ if booked 1.5 months rather than 1.5 weeks in advance.
21:31:28  <svip> Yeah.
21:31:31  * Bjarni turns the music on
21:31:31  <svip> When 1.0 be released?
21:31:32  <TrueBrain> I suggest next time to meat in Germany
21:31:40  <TrueBrain> meat? Meet :p
21:31:46  <Prof_Frink> Nah, Germany's full of Germans
21:31:47  <svip> This constant beta reminds me of Google.
21:31:55  <ln-> Germany sounds fine.
21:31:55  <TrueBrain> but it is easy to get to for most people
21:31:56  <Prof_Frink> And my USB stick's banned.
21:31:56  <TrueBrain> and cheap :)
21:31:59  <svip> Always keep everything in BETA, to avoid being required support. :P
21:32:08  <svip> Germany sounds find?
21:32:08  <TrueBrain> svip: who said this was beta?
21:32:10  <TrueBrain> not a word we use
21:32:14  <ln-> Although I still haven't visited Benelux at all.
21:32:22  <Bjarni> but it's full of .... Germans
21:32:24  <svip> It's illegal to use package sniffing programs in Germany.
21:32:33  <Bjarni> and even worse: German speaking Germans
21:32:35  <TrueBrain> a lot of things are illegal in Germany
21:32:40  <Prof_Frink> Always keep everything in random-svn-checkout, to avoid being required support. :P
21:32:40  <TrueBrain> what was the last law they accepted?
21:32:43  <svip> But package sniffing programs?
21:32:50  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, nmap is illegal there :p
21:32:56  <svip> :|
21:33:03  <TrueBrain> as is tcpdump
21:33:04  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Yes, that's why my USB stick is banz0red
21:33:05  <svip> And how the hell are they going to check for that?
21:33:21  <TrueBrain> svip: doesn't matter, it still is illegal
21:33:30  <TrueBrain> who will find out if I have some cocaine plats here
21:33:33  <TrueBrain> still, it is illegal :p
21:33:34  <svip> Awesomely stupid isn't it?
21:33:36  <Bjarni> but sex with children online is legal and has created a marked in 2nd life.... odd Germans
21:33:36  <Prof_Frink> Practically none of my electronic devices are legal in Germany.
21:33:56  <Bjarni> like who would pay a fortune for your virtual character to have sex with a virtual character
21:33:57  <TrueBrain> I myself am not legal in Germany :p
21:33:57  <TrueBrain> lol
21:33:59  <svip> I use Wireshark and nmap and traceroute all the time.
21:34:07  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: eeuuuhhh
21:34:08  * TrueBrain shuts up
21:34:09  <TrueBrain> :p
21:34:18  <TrueBrain> nah, paying is silly in general for things like SecondLife
21:34:27  <TrueBrain> svip: me too, mostly on my own servers :p
21:34:33  <svip> :p
21:34:44  <Bjarni> I never really understood SecondLife :s
21:34:46  <svip> I made a script that reads and gives stats from your auth.log.
21:34:49  * Prof_Frink has been known to use Ettercap too
21:34:59  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: SecondLife in fact is really nice
21:35:01  <TrueBrain> although very boring
21:35:05  <TrueBrain> but... to put money in it?
21:35:11  <Bjarni> and the name is poor. How can people with no life get a 2nd one?
21:35:12  <TrueBrain> I once put 5$ in it, for the fun of it, and went to the casino
21:35:12  <Prof_Frink> With the login-grabbing plugin
21:35:14  <TrueBrain> I was bored
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21:35:18  <TrueBrain> I came out with 10$ :p
21:35:26  <Bjarni> hehe
21:35:27  <Prof_Frink> And SSL sniffing.
21:35:27  <svip> For instance:
21:35:28  <svip> User: root attempted 2314 times.
21:35:34  <svip> Ip: attempted 1453 times.
21:35:36  <svip> :>
21:35:44  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: did you report your  earnings to the US IRS?
21:35:45  <TrueBrain> svip: posting IPs is a bit... nasty
21:35:51  <svip> They are not mine.
21:35:52  <Bjarni> you earned it on a US server, you know
21:35:52  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: I don't have to
21:36:03  <svip> They are people trying to access my computer, TrueBrain.
21:36:07  <TrueBrain> by the law of my own coutnry, I don't have to :)
21:36:08  <TrueBrain> they do :p
21:36:10  <svip> As part of an SSH spam attack.
21:36:18  <Prof_Frink> svip: No
21:36:22  <Bjarni>  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: I don't have to <-- tell that to the IRS :P
21:36:26  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: as it goes via PayPal, and PayPal is also located in my own country
21:36:37  <Prof_Frink> They are the owners of Windows boxen that are being used to attack your computer
21:36:38  <TrueBrain> I have nothing, and aboslutely nothing, to do with IRS
21:36:44  <svip> Not really, Prof_Frink.
21:36:48  <svip> I did some checks on all the systems.
21:36:52  <svip> And they run Linux.
21:37:06  <svip> There was a hacked user in Finland.
21:37:10  <svip> And a university in Bogota.
21:37:18  <TrueBrain> svip: hmm, on my servers you won't reach that number... after 10 attempts within 1 hour, you are blocked for 24 hours..
21:37:21  <Prof_Frink> Oh well, they deserve everything they get then
21:37:21  <TrueBrain> after that for a week
21:37:22  <svip> Both had port 22 open.
21:37:26  <TrueBrain> and.. then for life! YEAH!
21:37:41  * Prof_Frink has port 22 open.
21:37:43  <TrueBrain> so I won't find values > 30 :p
21:37:45  <svip> Indeed.
21:37:47  <svip> But the point is.
21:37:56  <svip> Their root account isn't that well protected.
21:38:01  <Prof_Frink> pubkey only, of course.
21:38:03  <TrueBrain> write them an email! :)
21:38:10  <svip> :|
21:38:18  <svip> I cannot figure out how to get their email just from knowing their IP.
21:38:31  <TrueBrain> svip: ip-lookup? WHOIS?
21:38:32  <Bjarni> whois
21:38:35  <svip> I did.
21:38:37  <TrueBrain> just write to abuse@
21:38:40  <Prof_Frink> You should be able to get an email for the uni
21:38:43  <TrueBrain> at least you tried :)
21:38:50  <svip> :P
21:39:07  <svip> My script shall be more advance, and actually perform the whois itself.
21:39:10  <TrueBrain> depending on how bored I am, I once wrote 25 abuse@ emails that they were attacking me :p
21:39:13  <svip> And take out the interesting parts.
21:39:25  <svip> Ever got a respond, TrueBrain?
21:39:27  <TrueBrain> resulted in just 2 replies...
21:39:28  <TrueBrain> silly people
21:39:37  <svip> abuse@ip?
21:39:38  <TrueBrain> oh, and 1 out-of-office reply
21:39:38  <svip> Or what?
21:39:41  <TrueBrain> which was pretty odd :p
21:39:47  <TrueBrain> no, IP -> WHOIS -> ISP -> abuse@
21:39:54  <svip> Ah.
21:40:11  <glx> <TrueBrain> oh, and 1 out-of-office reply <-- automatic reply?
21:40:31  <TrueBrain> glx: yes.. but on an abuse@ that is really weird
21:40:39  <glx> yes that's silly
21:40:52  <TrueBrain> svip: if your IP was doing the attacks, I would email
21:40:56  <Bjarni> out-of-office replies are golden for spammers. It quickly verifies that the email address is in use and they can then start to send a whole lot of spam
21:41:05  <svip> Well...
21:41:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> <svip> It's illegal to use package sniffing programs in Germany. <- same reason why it is illegal to open letters
21:41:17  <svip> Good reason.
21:41:28  <svip> You got mail!  But you can't open it! :O
21:41:45  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: are you allowed to read what is written on a postcard?
21:42:07  * Prof_Frink finds the article he was looking for:
21:42:08  <Rubidium> as internet traffic must be compared to postcards and not letters in enveloppes
21:42:19  <Bjarni> spam mails are illegal in Denmark due to a law that bans door to door salesmen/advertising and random phonecalls to sell stuff. Great law
21:42:43  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: And how much spam do you get?
21:42:51  <Bjarni> nothing from Denmark
21:42:54  <svip> :]
21:43:27  <Bjarni> but there are some guys in the 3rd world and some in America, who thinks that I'm fat, needs bigger breasts and viagra
21:43:44  <Bjarni> well, the computer is able to filter them out
21:43:55  <ln-> has anyone been to Dublin?
21:44:04  <glx> I got a lot of fake youtube links recently
21:44:28  <Bjarni> but the point is that people never interrupts me with phonecalls to sell me useless stuff and they don't show up at the door either
21:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> Rubidium: i am not sure... but it is also not legal to listen to phonecalls
21:44:45  <Prof_Frink> glx: el reg said that was the Storm Worm.
21:45:33  <svip> Only newspapers, Bjarni.
21:45:35  <svip> :|
21:46:14  <Bjarni> that's not even often they call
21:46:22  <svip> "Vil du kÞbe et abonnoument på Politiken?"  "Nej, jeg skal ikke have sådan noget venstre-oriterent propaganda."
21:46:23  <Bjarni> and to be honest, I wonder if they are allowed to call
21:46:45  <Bjarni> it's more fun when they try to sell you a newspaper you already get X)
21:46:51  <svip> x)
21:47:09  <svip> Information has for so long wanted me to buy their newspaper.
21:47:32  <Bjarni> they never contacted me
21:47:40  <svip> Well.
21:47:45  <svip> They only do because I used to have it.
21:48:03  <svip> And I keep telling them I will buy it when I move out of my parents' cellar.
21:48:05  <Bjarni> it started as an illegal press
21:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> we call that kind of luck "Arschkarte" :p
21:48:16  <svip> I know the story.
21:48:41  <Bjarni> hehe
21:49:01  <svip> :|
21:49:06  *** Mucht_ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:49:12  <svip> German is just putting a lot of random "sch" around it.
21:49:21  <svip> And pronounce the a's like they should.
21:49:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11001 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the way to determine whether a vehicle is in a depot.
21:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is said to be derived from football, where the yellow card is in the chest pocket, and the red card is in the back pocket
21:49:38  <Prof_Frink> And capitalising random Words.
21:49:42  <svip> Nah.
21:49:45  <svip> Nouns, Prof_Frink.
21:49:46  <svip> Nouns.
21:49:52  <svip> Sorta like in English titles.
21:49:58  <Bjarni> I was once contacted by my ISP and informs that if I moved from 512k to 1M, they would give me 4M for months... since the price was nearly the same, I took the bait
21:49:58  <Prof_Frink> Pfft
21:50:00  <svip> "Awesomeness in a Box"
21:50:10  <Prof_Frink> *Proper* nouns get capitals
21:50:15  <TrueBrain> lalalaaaaa
21:50:16  <svip> Proper?
21:50:18  <Prof_Frink> Aye
21:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is funny how the english capitalise english, but the germans don't :p
21:50:23  <Prof_Frink> Like names.
21:50:26  <svip> :P
21:50:31  <svip> English capitalise too many things.
21:50:36  <Bjarni> after the 3 or 4 months, I would revert to 1M and they then informed me that their new policy was to upgrade 1M to 2M at no cost at all
21:50:40  <svip> Even weekdays and months!
21:50:42  <Prof_Frink> NO WE DON'T!
21:50:50  <Prof_Frink> (colon-pee)
21:50:59  <Bjarni> I think that's the only time I actually wanted something I was offered like that
21:51:20  <svip> :]
21:51:32  *** Stoffe is now known as St|off
21:51:47  <Prof_Frink> Bah, the party's finished.
21:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Prof_Frink> *Proper* nouns get capitals <- english (and other words derived from countries) is capitalised even if it is used as adjective
21:52:18  <svip> Example?
21:52:21  <Prof_Frink> That's 'cause countries have capitals.
21:52:35  <Bjarni> good point
21:52:40  <svip> Sorta like in Eesti and eesti keel?
21:52:41  <Prof_Frink> South Africa has two capitals, so it has two capitals.
21:52:42  <svip> Yes yes yes?
21:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> but it's reverse to the german way of capitalising
21:53:06  <svip> What about The Democratic Republic of North Korea, Prof_Frink?
21:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> germans capitalise everything that was created by god
21:53:18  <Prof_Frink> Now capital looks like it's spelt wrong.
21:53:23  <svip> Wait, Eddi|zuHause3.
21:53:31  <svip> Does that assume that God existed?
21:53:39  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: then what about "Former Yugoslavian Republic Macedonia"... do they have 4 capitals?
21:53:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> except the lord himself, he gets two capitals (in the 16th century origin of the capitalising)
21:53:48  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: See, we just capitalise Him and things He does.
21:54:00  <Prof_Frink> Nah, that's a silly place
21:54:15  <svip> Why is capital and capital spelt the same way in English?
21:54:26  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause3: two capitals? like GOtt?
21:54:38  <svip> More like goTT
21:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> valhallasw: i think Martin Luther used the term "HErr"
21:54:46  <glx> good one :)
21:55:08  <svip> Mein Gott im Himmel!
21:55:08  <Bjarni> <svip> Why is capital and capital spelt the same way in English? <-- for the same reason as "så" is spelled like "så" ;)
21:55:11  *** thgergo [] has quit []
21:55:16  <svip> That makes sense.
21:55:18  <svip> "Så så jeg en fisk."
21:55:27  <svip> And "Er det det det er?"
21:55:31  <valhallasw> svip: because it's the capital <city> and a capital <letter>
21:55:34  * Bjarni puts up a sign "gone fishing"
21:55:44  <Prof_Frink> s/g/'/
21:55:52  <Prof_Frink> sorry
21:55:56  <Prof_Frink> s/g$/'/
21:56:00  <Bjarni> <svip> And "Er det det det er?" <--- good one
21:56:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is believed that his bible translation, together with the new publication ways (from his good friend Johannes Gutenberg) are the origin of this capitalisation
21:56:47  <svip> :|
21:56:57  <svip> What's with all this Bible none-sense?
21:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> because it was the first time that written words could be mass produced
21:57:04  <svip> So Martin Luther was crazy and jazz?
21:57:06  *** Farden [jk3farden@] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
21:57:21  <svip> Did he have a dream?
21:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> so this initial publication greatly influenced the future style of writing
21:57:43  <svip> So apparently no king.
21:58:00  <svip> Okay, Eddi|zuHause3.
21:58:10  <svip> I admit that Germany has a much more awesome history than Denmark has.
21:58:17  <svip> But that still doesn't beat LEGO.
21:58:21  <Bjarni> actually Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press, but he improved it to set up a page way faster. The Chinese had printed books for ages at that time
21:58:55  <ln-> NVidia
21:59:08  <Bjarni> we have some history in common with Germany
21:59:17  <svip> ATI
21:59:19  <Prof_Frink> svip: Once again, you prove England's greatness.
21:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, he did not invent printing, he invented moveable letters, i.e. pages made up from small bits, that could be rearranged later
21:59:25  <Bjarni> we were both ruled by Hitler and even at the same time
21:59:28  <svip> Why, Prof_Frink?
21:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> instead of carving an own plate for each page
21:59:43  <svip> Are you going to bring up the false claim that it was a Brit who invented LEGO?
21:59:45  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, so you know. Most people don't :(
21:59:49  <Prof_Frink> Meccano > Lego.
21:59:54  <svip> Meccano?
21:59:56  <svip> Meccano?
21:59:57  <Prof_Frink> Yes.
21:59:59  <svip> No way.
22:00:02  <Prof_Frink> Way.
22:00:05  <svip> You can't be serious.
22:00:10  <svip> Nothing > LEGO.
22:00:14  <svip> Hell, not even nothing.
22:00:17  <Bjarni> welcome to kindergarten
22:00:25  <svip> Bjarni.
22:00:33  <svip> Why you'd think TrueBrain picked LEGO over Meccano?
22:00:36  <Bjarni> svip.
22:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> if i am nothing, does that mean i am greater than lego? :p
22:00:46  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, you can't have sharp pieces of metal in playschool.
22:00:47  <svip> No.
22:01:00  <svip> You cannot be nothing, you can only be no one.
22:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> svip: TrueBrain just stole the next best stuff he could find, which was Wolf01's brickland tiles
22:01:17  * Bjarni once built a robot out of lego
22:01:20  <Prof_Frink> svip: OK, you stab me with a lego brick, I'll stab you with a piece of meccano.
22:01:21  <valhallasw> meccano >> lego; although both have some strengths and weaknesses
22:01:28  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't steal, I ask for permission
22:01:33  <svip> Stabbing?
22:01:43  <svip> TrueBrain:  Right.
22:01:43  <valhallasw> for little children lego might be better suited
22:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: poor excuse :p
22:01:52  <valhallasw> anyway, meccano > lego > k'nex ;)
22:01:57  <Prof_Frink> I had both.
22:02:11  <TrueBrain> k'nex sucks
22:02:16  <svip> Then why is there no Meccano Star Wars?
22:02:18  <svip> Huh?  HUH?!
22:02:30  <Prof_Frink> A mix of meccano, lego and a Hornby train set is pure win.
22:02:39  <TrueBrain> Meccano sucks for a theme :s
22:02:46  <svip> See?
22:02:49  <svip> LEGO wins there.
22:02:55  <svip> I have LEGO Star Wars II.
22:02:58  <svip> ;-; It's awesome.
22:03:02  <valhallasw> svip: because themed construction sets suck
22:03:09  <valhallasw> as the parts are not re-useable
22:03:11  <svip> I am thinking about the games.
22:03:14  <Prof_Frink> Pfft
22:03:26  <TrueBrain> on XBox it is cool to do when you are drunk with your roommates
22:03:28  <TrueBrain> we had suck a good laugh
22:03:30  <Prof_Frink> There's no freaking *point* to virtual meccano
22:03:39  <svip> See?
22:03:49  <svip> It doesn't even have potential!
22:03:53  <Prof_Frink> There's no point to virtual lego either.
22:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> am i the only one in here that has no idea what meccano is?
22:04:05  <Prof_Frink> The whole idea is to build something
22:04:08  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: many points, we call them stubs
22:04:16  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause3: ?
22:04:18  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: I google'd it, and noticed I knew it all along :p
22:04:27  <svip> And can you make anything like this with Meccano?
22:04:28  <svip>
22:04:28  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Imagine Lego, but designed by an engineer
22:04:43  * Bjarni once built a working trebuchet out of lego
22:04:44  <Prof_Frink> But anyway
22:04:54  <Prof_Frink> Steel > plastic.
22:04:55  <Bjarni> it was able to shoot several meters :D
22:05:24  <valhallasw> steel lego would be nice
22:05:25  <glx> Bjarni: how many broken windows ? ;)
22:05:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, yes, i think we had an east german copy of that :p
22:05:28  <valhallasw> kinda deadly, too
22:05:32  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: lol!!! :)
22:05:43  <svip> Steel LEGO?
22:05:43  <TrueBrain> steel lego, oh, that is a good one :)
22:05:47  <svip> I have a steel LEGO brick.
22:05:50  <TrueBrain> deadly indeed :)
22:05:53  <Bjarni> glx: none. I was careful. I didn't kill anybody either
22:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> my father built an easter-egg-painting-machine from those :p
22:06:01  <Bjarni> except for the lego guy I tried to use as ammo
22:06:02  <Bjarni> :P
22:06:15  <TrueBrain> MURDERER!
22:06:21  <TrueBrain> I am going to report you!
22:06:24  * valhallasw is going to bed, gn guys
22:06:29  <TrueBrain> night valhallasw
22:06:37  <svip> Just as the killing sets in.
22:06:46  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: btw, ever made it through the 1st year?
22:06:54  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: yes, I've got my P
22:06:57  <TrueBrain> concratz!
22:06:58  <Prof_Frink> If you're gonna take out a window, do it with a spud gun.
22:06:59  <valhallasw> thx
22:07:01  <TrueBrain> that is really nice, in one year
22:07:04  <TrueBrain> 80% fails in that :p
22:07:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> i didn't even know what a trebuchet was, until i played Age of Empires II
22:07:12  <TrueBrain> sleep well :)
22:07:14  <valhallasw> 50% failed in getting the BSA...
22:07:17  <valhallasw> :(
22:07:20  <TrueBrain> 50%?
22:07:22  <TrueBrain> Auch!
22:07:29  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: You don't watch Scrapheap Challenge?
22:07:32  <valhallasw> or something like that
22:07:32  <TrueBrain> so we are back to, what, 20 students? :p
22:07:37  <TrueBrain> (NA + SK)
22:07:39  <TrueBrain> SK?
22:07:40  <TrueBrain> lol
22:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> Prof_Frink: a what?
22:07:44  <TrueBrain> N + A :p
22:07:46  <valhallasw> :P
22:07:52  <valhallasw> 20 or 30, yes
22:07:54  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: It's like giant meccano
22:07:57  <TrueBrain> fun fun
22:08:03  <valhallasw> some W+N people who have switched to W, too, of course
22:08:11  <TrueBrain> hehe, and you?
22:08:21  <TrueBrain> continueing with some I classes?
22:08:40  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Two teams get ten hours to build something from whatever they can find on a scrap heap.
22:08:43  <valhallasw> compiler construction, probably
22:09:12  <TrueBrain> 3rd year class? Hehe :)
22:09:40  <valhallasw> I'm only doing classes I find interesting ;)
22:09:45  <TrueBrain> :) Haha!
22:09:53  <TrueBrain> some classes indeed are pretty boring :p
22:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> Prof_Frink: i don't think i have ever seen such a thing
22:09:57  <TrueBrain> the history of programming languages
22:09:59  <TrueBrain> yeah! :p
22:10:29  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: 'tis probably the second best program on TV
22:10:37  <valhallasw> anyway, time for bed, kinda dead (ludieke zaalavond @ quintus)
22:10:43  <TrueBrain> haha :)
22:10:46  <TrueBrain> Quintus, sigh...
22:10:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can fill more than 2 lessons with history of programming languages?
22:10:47  <TrueBrain> night :p
22:11:03  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: they wrote a whole darn book about it!
22:11:06  <TrueBrain> 500 pages!
22:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean you show like 3 different languages, and give them the "evolution tree"
22:11:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you are done with it...
22:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> they all look alike anyway
22:11:35  <TrueBrain> clearly there is more to it
22:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> one guest professor always said: "there is nothing new under the sun"
22:12:08  <TrueBrain> and he is right
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22:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> whenever he introduced a "brand new" concept
22:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's always the same thing in a new package
22:13:49  <TrueBrain> and still you have to study it :p
22:13:52  <TrueBrain> how annoying :)
22:14:22  <TrueBrain> now I have to learn Python to create a project of mine
22:14:53  <glx> there are only 2 languages, C-like and emacs-like
22:15:02  <TrueBrain> glx: fortran
22:15:27  <glx> how does it look?
22:15:52  <Prof_Frink> glx: whitespace
22:15:58  <TrueBrain>
22:16:26  <glx> I learnt smalltalk
22:16:37  <glx> "everything is object"
22:17:23  <TrueBrain> is it me or is PHP missing?
22:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think our tree had a few more branches...
22:17:57  <glx> right PHP is missing
22:18:07  <glx> I learnt O'Caml too
22:18:11  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: google, images, one of the first hits ;)
22:19:08  <glx> lol prolog is alone
22:19:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it really is :)
22:19:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is completely distinct from every other language :p
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22:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> i learned prolog in our AI course
22:19:54  <glx> yes it uses rules
22:20:21  <glx> you need to think about all rules
22:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes it rules :p
22:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> i found it totally funny, but the other guys were completely unable to program in it :)
22:21:41  <Bjarni> <--- some more cool lego
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22:33:48  <svip> :|
22:33:57  <svip> How do I check if one tile has all four types of road on it?
22:34:05  <svip> Or if a road is crossed by a railroad track?
22:34:29  <glx> we have accessors for that
22:34:36  <svip> Yeah.
22:34:45  <svip> But they keep giving me assertions failures.
22:34:50  <svip> bool IsCrossingBarred(TileIndex): Assertion `GetRoadTileType(t) == ROAD_TILE_CROSSING' failed.
22:36:23  <svip> It's just that the road_map.h file is so badly commented.
22:36:23  <glx> use IsLevelCrossing(t) or IsLevelCrossingTile(t) first
22:36:33  <glx> names are explicit
22:36:44  <glx> but you're right about comments
22:37:33  <svip> Now I just need if a tile has roads in all four directions.
22:38:56  <glx> GetRoadButs
22:39:04  <glx> GetRoadBits
22:39:08  <svip> :]
22:39:56  <glx> GetRoadBits(t) == ROAD_ALL
22:40:00  <svip> :] Yeah.
22:40:06  <svip> Now I also need to check if it is on a slope.
22:40:14  <svip> Well, if it goes from one level to another.
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22:44:35  <ln-> is it legal for OTTD to search for servers on LAN with UDP broadcast in germany?
22:44:56  <TrueBrain> it is sniffing :p
22:44:58  <glx> hehe good question :)
22:46:01  <ln-> definitely sniffing, and one can't argue a LAN would always be someone's (or some company's) own private LAN.
22:46:52  <svip> :/
22:46:59  <svip> There is no function to get the Slope at a tile?
22:47:01  <svip> That's silly.
22:47:11  <glx> svip: I'm sure there is one
22:47:17  <svip> GetTileSlope(TileIndex tile, uint *h)
22:47:21  <svip> Yeah, but what the hell is h?
22:47:29  <glx> can be NULL
22:47:30  <Sacro> hmm
22:47:36  <Sacro> UDP might be a bit of a grey area
22:47:39  <ln-> ain't it some constant in Schrödinger's equation
22:48:04  <glx> it's a pointer to a var that can receive the return of GetTileSlope()
22:49:35  <glx> hmm I'm wrong
22:49:45  <glx> h is used to get the height
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22:54:55  <svip> Is there a smarter way to get wither or not a road goes up a slope?
22:55:03  <svip> Because the slope does not have much to do with the road itself.
22:55:15  <svip> The road can go up on slopes that actually slope in a different direction.
22:58:49  <svip> And I'm off to bed.
22:59:46  <TrueBrain> night svip
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23:29:22  <_Ben_> hmm the order the sprites are drawn on bridges seems to be different for different bridge heights.  Is there any reason for this?
23:30:01  <_Ben_> i.e. the legs.  They appear earlier, on higher bridges, than the bridge floor, but the same cannot be said for the lowest bridge
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23:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's probably because the 1-level bridges are from TTD, while the high bridges are more kind of a "hack" that was introduced later
23:37:26  <_Ben_> hmm, To solve it will be hacky in a graphical sence.  I would have to make elements of the bridge extrude over the problem overlapping other tiles
23:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> i remember there were lots of drawing problems with high bridges in the past...
23:40:42  <_Ben_> yeah there are others that are very apparent at high zoom, all to do with the legs, I'll worry about them when I get to them I think
23:41:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think the official term is "pillars" ;)
23:45:17  <_Ben_> More architecturally correct I suppose.  I'll add it to my vocabulary!

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