Log for #openttd on 28th September 2007:
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00:25:07  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:34:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11178 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't check newgrf callback 22 in scenario editor
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02:07:47  <mattt_> wow.. big channel
02:08:16  <mattt_> is it possible to get an estimate for building a tunnel?
02:08:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> shift+click
02:08:45  <mattt_> awesome, thanks :)
02:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> works with everything that has a cost
02:08:59  <mattt_> cool
02:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> since TT original ;)
02:09:34  <mattt_> oh, haha
02:09:45  <mattt_> i was lookin on the wiki
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07:15:29  <dihedral> good morning ladies :-)
07:16:37  <boekabar1> hey honey
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07:29:58  * dihedral slaps boekabar1
07:30:03  <dihedral> where were you last night?
07:30:19  * dihedral laughs his head off
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07:34:10  <boekabart> ""Onze pientere paarse held Purno de Purno is weer terug!""
07:34:24  <Purno> ORLY?
07:34:42  <boekabart> orly??
07:35:12  <boekabart>
07:38:24  <TheMask96>
07:40:13  <boekabart> our smart purple hero Purno!
07:41:31  <Purno> "slijmbal"
07:41:57  <boekabart> I quoted the first or second google hit on purno de purno!
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07:49:47  <dihedral> Rubidium: will there be any chance of getting /trunk to stop drawing everything, and being more of a dedicated server?
07:50:32  <dihedral> or does it _have_ to draw everything
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07:51:41  <Rubidium> dihedral: what the F are you talking about?
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07:51:51  <boekabart> dihedral: I thought actually that with the changes in rendering .... the dedicated server doesn't draw everything anymore
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07:53:50  <Rubidium> it's already using the null blitter
07:53:59  <dihedral> oh - sorry
07:54:18  <dihedral> must have not read as many svn log entries as i should have... :-P
07:54:22  <boekabart> i just needs the sprites for the sizes of them (for collision detection of trains IIRC)
07:54:34  <dihedral> right
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07:55:35  <Ammler> morning dihedral :)
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08:44:20  <SmatZ> bye bye...
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09:36:12  <boekabart> why are there 2 ways to check whether a vehicle(train) is the Front Engine: IsFrontEngine(v) (checks HASBIT(v->subtype, Train_Front)) and, !v->Previous(). Are/should they always be the same ?
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09:40:46  <hylje> logically yes
09:41:07  <hylje> the other depends on a property while other depends on relation
09:41:09  <boekabart> I'd say :)
09:41:26  <boekabart> unless we want trains to reverse in the future?
09:41:51  <boekabart> as in - without moving the engine to the front
09:42:05  <hylje> depends on the way we do it
09:42:43  <boekabart> well the real engine will lose on of those 2 properties, however we do it
09:42:49  <boekabart> *one
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09:44:11  <hylje> i'd suppose the train_front bit is the one always pointing where the train goes
09:44:39  <hylje> reversing the actual order is too prone for bugs and headache
09:45:13  <hylje> because 1) the train looks the same, it just goes to another direction
09:45:20  <boekabart> not my plan - i just noticed there were the 2 ways
09:45:22  <hylje> 2) cargo in wagons stays intact
09:45:34  <boekabart> maybe a dev cares to answer if ...
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09:52:29  <frosch123> boekabart: Only a guess, but what is with train consists without a engine inside a depot. I would expect them not to have a front engine.
09:53:02  <hylje> what?
09:53:03  <hylje> :P
09:53:11  <boekabart> frosch123: wow, you are good
09:53:42  <dihedral> frosch123: then it aint a train, is just a concaternation of waggons
09:53:50  <dihedral> :-D
09:53:55  <boekabart> And yes, Front Engine _probably_ also is the one deciding how all the wagons look and so
09:54:13  <boekabart> dihedral: still, it's a linked list of vehicles
09:54:27  <dihedral> was just kidding boekabart
09:54:31  <boekabart> good one, frosch123
09:54:39  <frosch123> :)
09:55:30  <hylje> if front engine decides how the wagons look
09:55:43  <hylje> reversing in place might not work without wagons changing looks
09:57:34  <Sacro> hmm
09:57:53  <boekabart> well, hylje, as long as it stays clear which is the 'master engine'
09:58:10  <boekabart> which is not per se the front of the moving train
09:58:14  <hylje> third property? :>
09:58:22  <hylje> front engine
09:58:24  <hylje> really front engine
09:58:50  <boekabart> no - I guess if you'd change the order of the vehicles (inverse the linked list), that might work
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12:37:06  <dihedral> anybody here know something about autopilot and irc?
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13:23:17  <Digitalfox> Good afternoon everybody :)
13:24:16  <Digitalfox> I was thinking of updating the developers page on the wiki, but since it may be a controversial update, i believe it's better to discuss it first.. So i will ask:
13:24:32  <Digitalfox> - Should Tron be placed on retired developers?
13:24:40  <boekabart> @seen Tron
13:24:41  <DorpsGek> boekabart: Tron was last seen in #openttd 15 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Tron> let me revert it
13:24:56  <ln-> and that was not *the* Tron
13:25:00  <boekabart> :)
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13:25:04  <boekabart> !seen Tron
13:25:06  <_42_> boekabart, Tron ( was last seen parting #openttd 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours 19 minutes ago (11.09. 16:05), after spending 2 seconds there.
13:25:12  <fjb> Hi
13:25:12  <Digitalfox> - Should Truelight be moved to main developers ?
13:25:35  <Digitalfox> - Should Darkvater be moved to main developers?
13:25:46  <Digitalfox> * retired developers
13:25:56  <ln-> Digitalfox: Sure, you can move them to retired devs.
13:25:57  <hylje> dv hasnt been around for quite some time
13:27:01  <Digitalfox> - And should ludde be moved to retired developers ( he is the father of the project, but... )
13:27:43  <Digitalfox> I would to hear some dev feedback, so the update is something the maiority agrees :)
13:27:47  <boekabart> Digitalfox: You can check their activity on<nick>
13:28:16  <Digitalfox> boekabart: I know, but sometimes people get angry because they think people forgot them..
13:28:36  <Digitalfox> So i want to make sure theres no angry people with the update
13:29:55  <Digitalfox> So i will move darkvater to retired developers +tron and ludde, and move truelight to active developers.. Any one disagrees?
13:34:33  <Belugas> please, Digitalfox, let us decide who has to be declared as retired or not ;)
13:35:00  <Digitalfox> ok belugas, that's why i asked in channel and not update it :)
13:35:11  <Digitalfox> It's a controversial decision
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13:36:02  <Digitalfox> And i don't want to start ant kinf of war, between any developers :)
13:36:07  <Digitalfox> *kind
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13:36:39  <Belugas> well... that is basically the idea, yeah :)
13:36:46  <Belugas> thanks for your understanding :)
13:37:12  <Digitalfox> no problem Belugas :)
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14:09:43  <Maedhros> haha,
14:09:48  <Maedhros> (sfw, strangely enough)
14:11:16  <boekabart> brilliant
14:11:42  <boekabart> We're welcoming the SLUT into the neighborhood :)
14:17:32  <Belugas> anyone knows what an ssl_get_error of 2 means?
14:18:06  <Belugas> after a call of ssl_connect, should I add
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14:19:46  <Maedhros> well, it seems to be SSL_ERROR_WANT_READ ( ), but the explanation doesn't mean much to me
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14:20:46  <Belugas> that's waht i though too, but since i only have a simple number, i was not sure
14:20:51  <Belugas> thanks Maedhros
14:21:23  <Maedhros> np. is this work@work stuff?
14:21:33  <Belugas> yeah :(
14:21:50  <Belugas> log checking for errors
14:21:56  <Belugas> a lot of those
14:22:16  <Belugas> looks like the network was not holding up, or the host was really busy. We're trying to find ou
14:22:18  <Belugas> t
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14:31:17  * dihedral greets Belugas
14:37:09  <fjb> While playing ChrisIN the last days (why are days that short?) I got some new ideas about route markers.
14:38:12  * Belugas waves at dihedral
14:38:22  <fjb> I like the idea behind them, but I think they could be far more usefull and flexible.
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14:40:50  <fjb> Now every train gets a color assigned. And the route marker tells the pathfinder a penalty when it has the matching color.
14:42:47  <fjb> Why use colors in the first place and not use other properties of the train, like maximum speed or lenght inttead?
14:42:54  <fjb> instead
14:43:30  <XeryusTC> that's where you come in and make programable signals like in TTDP
14:43:46  <boekabart> those are finished in TTDP?
14:44:20  <fjb> How do they work? I use OpenTTD on FreeBSD, so no chance to try out TTDP.
14:44:56  <boekabart> boot DOS and try :)
14:45:06  <Maedhros> doesn't wine work with freebsd?
14:45:09  <fjb> And I just don't want signals, that tell an train "no", I think about "penalty markers".
14:45:29  <boekabart> i'm not sure whether you want that, really
14:45:36  <boekabart> you either want a train to use a track or not
14:45:52  <fjb> Wine kind of works, but I gave up on It 2 years ago. Why using whine, when there is OpenTTD? :-)
14:46:21  <boekabart> fjb: Why would you want the train to use the track it shouldn't .. sometimes?
14:47:32  <fjb> It can be usefull at stations, when you want to kind of sort trains at the platforms, but want a kind of fallback if all platforms of a special kind are used, but others are free.
14:49:57  <fjb> Maybe two short trains sometimes visit an station with several long an one short platform. The short trains should use the short platform, but if both arrive at the same time, one of them should take a long platform instead.
14:51:15  <fjb> You could send freigttrains another way uphill depending on how much load they carry.
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14:51:39  <fjb> There are many things you could do with that kind of markers.
14:51:41  <skidd13> hi
14:51:44  <fjb> hi
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14:53:50  <skidd13> Any dev opinions to FS921 (except wrong savegame bump)? Rubidium?
14:55:07  <fjb> Sure you can sort trains at big stations using wy points. But sometimes you have no room to build a way point. And that markers would just introduce another kind of flexibility.
14:55:53  <boekabart> where do you put the marker if there's no room for a waypoint?
14:57:12  <fjb> The routemarkers can be on the same tile as a signal.
14:57:43  <boekabart> oh right... :)
14:57:58  <fjb> The "penalty markers" could be there, too. (Instead of the routemarkers, they would be obsolete).
14:58:53  <fjb> Maybe the could be on the same tile as a switch. I don't know, didn't read enough of the code yet.
14:59:39  <fjb> And the should have a sprite that doesn't look like an shugar mushroom.
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15:17:17  <Belugas> skidd13: uint avail_buttons = 0x7F; ///< bin:01111111 maybe clearer and thus not requiring the comment if it was a value frmo the enum TownActions, no?
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15:17:41  <Belugas> i like the enum :)
15:17:43  <Belugas> it helos
15:18:24  <skidd13> helos?
15:18:31  <Nickman> hi ;)
15:18:42  <skidd13> Ah lol help
15:19:06  <skidd13> Belugas: So convert the enum to a binary enum?
15:21:30  <Belugas> isn't it already the case?
15:21:39  <Belugas> yeah... helps
15:22:03  <Belugas> TACT_ADVERTISE_SMALL = bit 1
15:22:09  <Belugas> TACT_BRIBE = bit 7
15:22:15  <Belugas> ho...
15:22:18  <Belugas> no... silly me
15:22:23  <skidd13> nope the enum specify's the bit positions not the bit itself
15:22:52  <Belugas> yeah. just figured it out :)
15:23:23  <skidd13> But I like the idea of a bit enum. So I can get rid of the macros.
15:23:27  <Belugas> So it would be a case of avail_buttons & TACT_BRIBE instead of a HASBIT
15:23:32  <Belugas> ok, never mind
15:23:47  <Belugas> but then...
15:23:52  <skidd13> s/but//g
15:24:08  <skidd13> what then?
15:24:13  <Belugas> no...
15:24:16  <Belugas> never mind.
15:24:19  <skidd13> :D
15:24:21  <Belugas> i'm not really there
15:24:30  <Belugas> i like th bit nume too
15:24:41  <Belugas> and i 'me resuming work@work
15:25:13  <skidd13> Have fun @work
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15:25:41  <Amix> Hey
15:27:02  <fjb> Hi
15:29:43  <Amix> Chatting using my E90
15:33:28  <Belugas> lol
15:33:41  <Belugas> typing using my keyboard :D
15:36:17  <fjb> :-)
15:36:58  <fjb> E90? Deutsche Reichsbahn?
15:39:40  *** glx|away is now known as glx
15:39:50  <glx> no Nokia E90
15:40:09  <glx> IIRC
15:41:21  <fjb> Oh, I thougt it would be something cool. :-)
15:43:08  <hylje> it is
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15:47:31  <Amix> Hehe
15:48:08  <Amix> I like E90. Nice device
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15:53:18  <fjb> But how much cargo can you transport using it? And how fast does it go uphill? :-)
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16:02:00  <skidd13> fjb: I'd say load limit is reached with ~40 Kg and the uphill speed depends on the pitch-speed of the owner :D
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16:05:10  <gfldex> fjb, look at if you want to know how fast it is going
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16:06:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11179 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix [FS#1262] (r11175): compilation with MSVC was broken
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16:07:37  <dihedral> Signal blocks streach over other peoples tracks?
16:09:00  <Bjarni> sure, why not? :)
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16:12:00  <Dradge> hi
16:12:06  <Bjarni> hi
16:13:52  <dihedral>
16:14:08  <Bjarni> known issue
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16:14:36  <Dradge> i have a question : is there objectives for the OpenTTD 1.0 ??? or
16:14:40  <dihedral> fix in sight?
16:14:56  <Bjarni> dihedral: not really
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16:15:33  <Bjarni> Dradge: 1.0 is far into the future.... Let's get to 0.6.0 first ;)
16:15:56  <Dradge> ok nothing planned :)
16:17:02  <Bjarni> history tells us not to plan that far into the future because we will not stick to the plan
16:17:25  <Dradge> :)
16:17:30  <Bjarni> we know what we wants to code, but we haven't set time and release number on the tasks
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16:18:30  <Dradge> oh the 0.6's roadmap is really nice and some features were finished :)
16:18:55  <dihedral> Bjarni: does that bug exist in /trunk too? or has it been resolved there?
16:19:30  <Bjarni> well, we didn't even stick to the roadmap for 0.5.0, so why should we do it for 0.6.0?
16:19:39  <Bjarni> dihedral: AFAIK it's also present in the trunk
16:19:44  <hylje> lol what
16:19:51  <Dradge> lol Bjarni
16:20:56  <Bjarni> <hylje> lol what <-- in short: read the roadmap as a guideline rather than the actual plan that everybody will stick to
16:21:50  <Bjarni> bbl dinner
16:23:09  <Amix> I am at the anime filmclub now
16:23:22  <hylje> lawl anime
16:23:50  <Amix> Fjb: its not heavy ;)
16:25:21  <Amix> Hylje: ?
16:26:16  <Dradge> humm it so dangerous to play OpenTTD with the nigthly version ???
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16:26:50  <hylje> no
16:28:11  <fjb> Won't the signal bug evetually be fixed when the new PBS system is in place?
16:29:04  <fjb> Dradge: I didn't encouter any problems using nightly builds.
16:29:12  <Dradge> nice :)
16:29:45  <fjb> I wish there would be a version of OpenTTD that would not requiere the files from the original game...
16:31:03  <Belugas> [12:22] <@Bjarni> well, we didn't even stick to the roadmap for 0.5.0, so why should we do it for 0.6.0?  <---the only remaining unreleased part of 0.6 is newindustries. At least, 0.6 will be waht was planned it to be :)
16:31:26  <hylje> bjarni doesn't want that
16:31:36  <hylje> *obviously*
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16:42:32  <Wolf01> hello
16:42:37  <fjb> hi
16:42:38  <Belugas> i would not say that.  Bjarni has other priorities, that's all
16:42:42  <Belugas> hey Wolf01
16:43:17  <Wolf01> hi Belugas :D
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16:54:15  <Wolf01> Rubidium, can i ask you how did you fixed the problem with the station size widgets?
16:54:59  <Rubidium> huh?
16:55:07  <hylje> :o
16:55:17  <Wolf01>
16:56:58  <Bjarni> back
16:57:16  <Bjarni> I didn't say that I didn't want it
16:57:33  <skidd13> Belugas: I changed the enum to a bit enum. Better?
16:58:13  <Bjarni> but if we should stick to the roadmap, we wouldn't add anything that's not in the roadmap... I'm pretty sure we added a whole lot of stuff that nobody thought of when the roadmap was made
16:59:02  <hylje> the roadmaps are minimum
16:59:23  <hylje> besides, the trunk is not restrained by any roadmaps
16:59:25  <Bjarni> I wouldn't rule out 0.7.0 features in 0.6.0 either
16:59:34  <Rubidium> Wolf01: I didn't fix anything
16:59:49  <Wolf01> on my system it works
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17:01:34  <Bjarni> <Amix> I am at the anime filmclub now <-- cool... are you making a survey of what to broadcast?
17:02:11  <fjb> What brings newindustries? Does it allow custom industries via GRFs? Or is there more about it?
17:02:45  <ln-> anime lÀhtee lapsesta hakkaamalla
17:02:59  <glx> custom industries, modification of standard industries properties, ...
17:03:05  <Amix> No. In 2008 bjarni
17:03:12  <glx> it is something like newhouses but for industries
17:03:28  <fjb> Ah.
17:03:32  <Bjarni> Amix: you are making a survey in 2008?
17:03:50  <Amix> In 2008 i will travel a lot yes
17:04:00  <Amix> Getting agreements etc
17:04:15  <fjb> Does it interfere with the passenger destination thing that e few people are working on?
17:04:28  <Bjarni> I meant a survey on what people like so you know what to aim at when you travel
17:04:36  <Amix> Tv isnt as free as torrent downloads you know
17:04:52  <Amix> Hehe
17:04:56  <Bjarni> torrents are free?
17:04:56  <Amix> Good idea
17:05:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11180 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix (r11175): crash on load when you don't have any NewGRFs. More interesting is: who plays without them ;)
17:05:11  <Bjarni> sounds too good to be true
17:05:33  <Amix> Brb
17:05:56  <Bjarni> making a proper survey takes longer than "brb" :P
17:08:46  <fjb> I couldn't play without NewGRFs anymore... :-)
17:08:55  <Bjarni> I can
17:09:07  <Bjarni> but only in temperate
17:09:13  <Bjarni> but
17:09:16  <Maedhros> i haven't been able to ever since i discovered openttd :)
17:09:22  <fjb> The DBsetXL reminds me on my MÀrklin model railway.
17:09:25  <Bjarni> that's not the same as I do it... I just said that I can
17:09:52  <Bjarni> fjb: heh... somehow it doesn't remind me of mine
17:10:06  <fjb> And the long vehicles make road vehicles useful.
17:10:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11181 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h): -Codechange: add support for newgrf callback 14A (Belugas)
17:10:31  <dihedral> the way industries increase and decrease production, that is a completely by chance calculation right?
17:10:56  <dihedral> do all clients perform this calculation or only the server, which then informs the clients of the changes?
17:12:00  <Progman> dihedral: as all clients and the server runs in sync all do the same chance calculation and so increase/decrease the production
17:12:26  <Rubidium> dihedral: wrong, though you're not far from it. And the client does the calculations in exactly the same way as the rest of the game state of OTTD is calculated.
17:13:19  <dihedral> shame :) i was hoping for the server to be doing all the calculations, and the clients being informed :-P
17:13:28  <Bjarni> why?
17:14:10  <hylje> less cpu use
17:14:15  <hylje> moar network traffic
17:14:26  <Rubidium> 'cause dihedral wants to overload people's internet connections
17:14:28  <dihedral> network traffic aint a big deal...
17:14:35  <dihedral> :-)
17:14:35  <Rubidium> dihedral: it isn't?
17:14:49  <dihedral> well - within a certain boundary
17:15:20  <dihedral> but looking at games, ottd is not the most hungry (bw wise) is it now
17:15:23  <Rubidium> more than 20 kb/s per client makes internet play absolutely useless for "the general" public as their home DSL won't take it
17:15:26  <dihedral> *other games
17:15:34  <hylje> a client needs to know only about global stuff and stuff one explicitly needs
17:15:46  <hylje> not about the state of the whole game all the time
17:15:54  <Rubidium> hylje: like... the WHOLE map for the smallmap_gui
17:16:03  <dihedral> f
17:16:06  <Rubidium> or all vehicles for the vehicle lists
17:16:07  <dihedral> lol
17:16:14  <hylje> vehicle lists can be requested at runtime
17:16:26  <hylje> minimap can be simplified server-side
17:16:31  <hylje> or synced every, say, 5, seconds
17:16:43  <Rubidium> that'd suck
17:16:58  <hylje> compromises, all compromises
17:17:11  *** Amix [] has quit [Quit: Amix]
17:17:21  <hylje> as it stands very large games are decided by the least powerful machine involved
17:17:37  <dihedral> well....
17:17:59  <dihedral> thankfully openttd does not require a whopping huge 3d card :-)
17:18:31  <Rubidium> any idea how much information needs to be send to the clients to render a since frame of the game?
17:18:40  <Rubidium> s/since/single/
17:18:46  <hylje> really depends
17:19:05  <dihedral> Rubidium: i dont, but i believe you are about to tell me
17:19:18  <hylje> the server would have to send information about vehicle state when necessary
17:19:23  <Rubidium> I don't neither, but it I can imagine it is quite a lot
17:19:42  <Rubidium> hylje: it has to send *all* changes happening within the viewports
17:19:49  <hylje> as it stands
17:20:06  * dihedral simply smiles and nods
17:20:10  <Rubidium> how would you not send all changes and keep in sync?
17:20:46  <Bjarni> we have a working code... why should we even talk about changing it?
17:20:50  <hylje> the client can assume things. partially work like it does now, but with no knowledge of the world around the general vicinity
17:21:00  <hylje> Bjarni: design can and should be talked about
17:21:15  <Bjarni> yeah but....
17:21:26  <Rubidium> and then vehicle lists taking several seconds to download, which would completely freeze up the game on client side as it basically can't draw anything new until the list is downloaded
17:21:26  <dihedral> Bjarni: i was not talking about changing it - i was asking how it worked :-)
17:21:26  <Bjarni> to something we know would need a whole lot more bandwidth?
17:21:33  <hylje> the server lets the client know of vehicle state, then the client can run pathfinder on it as usual
17:21:40  <hylje> vehicle lists can work asynchronously
17:22:00  <dihedral> lets get 0.6 ready first, and by 'us' i mean Belugas :-D
17:22:20  <Rubidium> hylje: you can't send other data from the server to the client when it's sending you the vehicle list
17:22:32  <Rubidium> *or* do you want to open a new TCP connection for each request?
17:22:44  <Maedhros> no pressure, Belugas :p
17:23:02  <hylje> Rubidium: it's not like the vehicle list has to be delivered as a whole package
17:23:26  <dihedral> hylje: just smile and nod
17:23:30  <dihedral> and be happy you can play
17:23:31  <Rubidium> oh, you want to complicate the client even more?
17:23:40  <Rubidium> and the server
17:23:47  <Rubidium> as you need to do package scheduling
17:23:56  <dihedral> lol
17:24:04  <hylje> true
17:24:09  <hylje> its all compromises
17:24:30  <dihedral> anybody here good at working with autopilot's tcl?
17:24:59  <dihedral> aim: kick every player named 'Player'
17:25:04  <Rubidium> dihedral: Brianetta?
17:25:11  <dihedral> he aint around atm :-P
17:25:18  <hylje> dihedral: i like to think about design.
17:25:55  * Belugas does not feel any pressure, at least coming out of the irc window :P
17:26:09  <Bjarni> we can change that :P
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17:27:11  <hylje> the pascal coder..
17:27:24  <Belugas> Delphi, if you don't mind ;)
17:27:38  <Bjarni> same thing :P
17:27:39  <Belugas> Bjarni... don't try :)
17:27:56  <Rubidium> Bjarni: yeah, objc and c++ are the same too
17:27:58  * dihedral thinks Bjarni was a little quicker than Belugas
17:27:59  <Belugas> like... c is same thing as c==??
17:28:10  <Bjarni> yeah
17:28:19  <dihedral> c==? never heard of that :-)
17:28:30  <Bjarni> it's related to C-
17:28:34  <hylje> C--
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17:28:54  <Belugas> c++
17:28:56  <Belugas> gahhhh
17:28:57  <dihedral> :-)
17:29:03  <Belugas> meeting
17:29:03  <dihedral> back to work :-)
17:29:04  <Belugas> bye
17:29:11  <dihedral> hehe
17:29:13  <dihedral> :-)
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17:31:51  <dihedral> anyhow - patch option, allow_nick_Player
17:31:55  <dihedral> ?
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17:32:00  <dihedral> :-P
17:33:06  <Amixwoktest> i want to find a person with understands economy stuff ;)
17:33:25  <Amixwoktest> will be looking for one that can handle bussines stuf
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17:38:06  <Bjarni> you mean a responsible person?
17:38:11  <Bjarni> and you are asking on IRC???
17:38:25  <Amixwoktest> hehe
17:38:25  <Amixwoktest> :D
17:38:27  <Amixwoktest> nah
17:38:34  <Amixwoktest> just searching for someone
17:38:55  <Bjarni> I'm responsible enough not to take up an offer like that from a guy whom I have only seen on IRC
17:39:13  <Amixwoktest> ;)
17:39:50  <Amixwoktest> thing is that i need a person which dosent mind not getting paid until sometime next year
17:39:58  <Amixwoktest> and thats hard to find
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17:40:55  <Bjarni> no, I can't help you there
17:41:21  <Bjarni> all the financial geniuses that I know are in well paid jobs (go figure)
17:41:22  <Dradge> humm, is there an autodownload feature for newgrf used on servers ?
17:41:29  <Bjarni> no
17:41:55  <glx> Dradge: no and there won't never be one
17:42:03  <Dradge> oh why ?
17:42:11  <Dradge> for security ?
17:42:12  <fjb> Can anybody tell me how to find my raod vehicle depot in a big city? :-/
17:42:16  <DaleStan> Because the licenses of many newgrfs don't permit redistribution.
17:42:51  <Dradge> ok
17:44:11  <ln-> are there famous scifi (or other interesting genre) authors who write novels in german?
17:44:26  <hylje> no. germans dont write novels.
17:44:43  <glx> fjb: play with transparency options
17:44:54  <Bjarni> if you want to write a novel, you write it in a language that the readers understand
17:45:10  <fjb> Hey germans do write novels...
17:45:25  <Bjarni> really?
17:45:37  <Bjarni> never heard of any of them
17:45:45  <Dradge> fjb : get a road vehicule and send it to the depot. Maybe it will go in the lost depot :)
17:45:50  <Bjarni> I thought it was all Kraftwerk and stuff like that
17:45:54  <fjb> glx: How do I find a transparent depot?
17:46:05  <Bjarni> fjb: you don't
17:46:11  <Bjarni> you make other stuff transparent
17:46:17  <Amixwoktest> and helga
17:46:19  <Amixwoktest> ;p
17:46:29  <Amixwoktest> Hans und Helga
17:46:32  <Amixwoktest> ;p
17:46:58  <glx> fjb: but only available in trunk
17:47:04  <fjb> But the depot becomes transparent too.
17:47:25  <glx> in trunk you can select what is transparent and what is not
17:47:50  <fjb> Ah, thank you, I found it.
17:52:19  <Amixwoktest>
17:52:27  <Amixwoktest> i love the tramsystem in openttd
17:52:35  <Amixwoktest> way better than in locomotion :=)
17:52:41  <hylje> bzzzzzzzzzz...
17:53:38  <Amixwoktest>
17:53:44  <Amixwoktest> trams and highway ;)
17:54:13  <hylje> railroad crossing
17:54:54  <Amixwoktest>
17:54:59  <Amixwoktest> hylje: yea
17:55:00  <Amixwoktest> ;p
17:55:14  <Amixwoktest> dont run in 130 there when a train goes i tell ya
17:55:15  <Amixwoktest> ;p
17:55:37  <fjb> Are articulated road vehicles working?
17:55:41  <hylje> beware of trucks colliding with trains
17:55:58  <hylje> Amixwoktest: how amazingly arbitrary tram lines
17:56:01  <Maedhros> fjb: yes (in the nightlies)
17:56:15  <fjb> I have to try it then.
17:56:31  <Amixwoktest> hylje: arbitrary?
17:56:43  <hylje> tunnel with no reason at all
17:56:43  <Amixwoktest>
17:56:56  <Amixwoktest> ;)
17:57:06  <fjb> The railroad crossings are a bit stupid. They should stop the road traffic earlier.
17:57:50  <fjb> Hm, how do you make the roads one way?
17:58:08  <Amixwoktest>
17:58:15  <Amixwoktest> holding ctrl
17:58:18  <Amixwoktest> and click
17:58:26  <Amixwoktest> in nightly that is
17:59:11  <fjb> Amixwoktest: Your world looks a bit deserted. :-)
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18:00:56  <AmixfX> sorry
18:00:56  <fjb> Thank you, that is a really cool feature. I have to build an atobahn. :-)
18:00:57  <AmixfX> ;p
18:01:06  <AmixfX> yea
18:01:08  <AmixfX> :)
18:01:25  <AmixfX> if you have both buses and trucks
18:01:35  <AmixfX> they bypas each other etc
18:01:38  <fjb> I have both.
18:01:38  <AmixfX> pretty nice
18:02:09  <skidd13> good night
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18:03:07  <AmixfX> fjb: whats so good with trams, is that they can run both on street and seperate
18:04:28  <AmixfX>
18:04:39  <AmixfX> this is how trams looks like in Locomotion
18:04:59  <AmixfX>
18:05:06  <AmixfX> this is how it looks in OpenTTD
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18:05:59  <AmixfX>
18:06:05  <AmixfX> trams taking goods
18:06:25  <AmixfX> goods trams are nice thing between train and trucks
18:07:36  <fjb> Locomotion look far more toy like.
18:08:11  <AmixfX> yea
18:08:14  <fjb> I like trams. I have difficulties to get the passengers out of the big cities.
18:08:29  <AmixfX> ;)
18:08:36  <fjb> But I'm still new to TTD
18:08:38  <AmixfX> same here
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18:17:36  <fjb> What is the usefullst tram set?
18:17:45  <fjb> most useful
18:18:07  <AmixfX> i am using Generic tram set
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18:20:37  <AmixfX> fjb: i will be watching The 4400 and Stargate Atlantis on tv now
18:20:42  <AmixfX> but after that
18:20:49  <fjb> I found the generic tram set and the german tram set. The german trams look better, but there are onnly three trams, no modern.
18:20:59  <AmixfX> we could try a network play with trams etc
18:21:01  <fjb> Have fun.
18:21:04  <AmixfX> if you want
18:21:37  <fjb> Today is my fathers birthday, else it would be a good idea.
18:21:49  <AmixfX> tomorrow
18:21:51  <AmixfX> or sunday
18:21:54  <AmixfX> i will be here ;)
18:23:16  <fjb> Ok, I never did a OpenTTD network play before. The only one of my friends who likes games like this doesn't play it because it needs the file from the originla TTD.
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18:40:37  <Maedhros> oh dear god. 60 mile tailbacks...
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18:50:16  <dihedral|away> nice Maedhros
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19:05:52  * fjb is away: I'm not here.
19:07:47  <Rubidium> a very useful and paradoxial message...
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19:17:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11182 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix [FS#1261] (r11174): bounding boxes caused crashes when zoomed out. Patch by SmatZ.
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19:25:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11183 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1249]: airports do not need to care about overflying aircraf when removing them, because if they were not in the "flying" state it can't be removed anyway.
19:42:20  <MarkSlap> Shit :D
19:42:28  <MarkSlap> 19815 crates of good
19:42:30  <MarkSlap> goods*
19:42:44  <MarkSlap> From a single oil raffinery
19:42:44  <hylje> good stuff
19:42:50  <MarkSlap> Yeah
19:42:51  <MarkSlap> ^^
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19:42:58  <hylje> that's what happens when you transport less good stuff
19:43:11  <MarkSlap> How do you mean? :P
19:44:08  <hylje> oil is transported into refinery
19:44:22  <MarkSlap> Ja genau
19:44:35  <MarkSlap> But I don't see a problem with that? :P
19:44:50  <MarkSlap> It's going up
19:45:02  <MarkSlap> 21090 crates
19:45:32  <hylje> you just have a lot of undelivered goods
19:45:40  <MarkSlap> Exactly
19:45:59  <MarkSlap> I don't have any space for goods-trains
19:46:07  <MarkSlap> It's tight already :P
19:46:28  <hylje> screenshot or you're lying
19:46:37  <MarkSlap> Shoot
19:46:39  <MarkSlap> A minute
19:48:23  <Prof_Frink> MarkSlap: If there's no space for trains, build some lorry bays
19:48:53  <MarkSlap>
19:48:58  <MarkSlap> Prof_Frink, smart :D
19:49:19  <MarkSlap> hylje, up to the left on the piture
19:49:27  <hylje> there's plenty of space around ther
19:49:28  <Rubidium> there's more than enough space for more trains
19:49:35  <MarkSlap> Not on the tracks
19:49:45  <Rubidium> well, double them then
19:50:02  <MarkSlap> There are not any space on the tracks to the other way
19:50:24  <MarkSlap> I dont like to take the goods :P
19:50:33  <hylje> :o
19:50:42  <MarkSlap> And usally don't do that either :P
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19:51:38  <Prof_Frink> Egads, that's an ugly setup
19:51:49  <MarkSlap> What? :P
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19:55:11  <MarkSlap> Prof_Frink, what is an ugly setup and why? :P
19:55:14  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, pi...
19:55:41  <Rubidium> 3.14......
19:55:58  <MarkSlap> 3.14159265
19:56:00  <MarkSlap> :)
19:57:01  <Prof_Frink> MarkSlap: You couls probably get equal or higher throughput with much shorter trains
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19:57:27  <MarkSlap> Sure, but then it would be to much oil on the other end
19:57:38  <Rubidium> MarkSlap: 2.71..........
19:57:39  <MarkSlap> I think this is too short trains.
19:58:10  <MarkSlap> And with the trains it self it's 105 cargos long
19:58:23  <Hendikins> That setup is awful.
19:58:28  <MarkSlap> :P
19:58:33  <Prof_Frink> ...24505989567879613033116462839963464604220901061057794581513092757
19:58:34  <MarkSlap> Which?
19:59:05  <Prof_Frink> MarkSlap: Save, upload and I'll see what I can do
19:59:12  <Hendikins> Normal length trains would be much more sensible for that.
19:59:19  <MarkSlap> Prof_Frink, why?
19:59:19  <MarkSlap> :P
19:59:32  <MarkSlap> Btw, this is just a playgame
19:59:36  <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink:
19:59:39  <Hendikins> And I'd probably quad track it if a lot of normal length trains were needed
19:59:47  <MarkSlap> I'm usally more serious.
19:59:52  <MarkSlap> Hmm
20:00:00  <Rubidium> hmm, MarkSlap doesn't seem to know his famous transcendental numbers
20:00:04  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
20:00:13  <MarkSlap> Rubidium :o
20:00:17  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Holy freakin' shit
20:00:30  * Hendikins normally quad tracks with a lot of overtaking opportunities
20:00:37  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: He should know pi up ti 1M
20:00:42  <Hendikins> (On high traffic routes)
20:00:43  <Rubidium> s/his/
20:00:58  <MarkSlap> Hendikins, I don't like those, just think it slows my trains down
20:01:01  <Prof_Frink> 'cause I got the tail end of it from his websitr ;)
20:01:14  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit []
20:01:32  <Hendikins> MarkSlap: Why? If it doesn't need to overtake a train that is say, broken down, it won't be any slower than dual track.
20:01:47  <MarkSlap> I never play with brokedowns
20:02:09  <Hendikins> I'm using breakdowns as the most common example, and you should.
20:02:18  <MarkSlap> Mmkey
20:02:49  <Prof_Frink> Anyway, if we had the scenario we could see who's right :p
20:02:56  <MarkSlap> :p
20:03:26  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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20:04:58  <MarkSlap> You should know this maybe, I've "cheated" a bit on this save, just to see some thing that I wanted to know
20:05:25  <MarkSlap> And that's why I'm playing desert and everything
20:06:15  <MarkSlap> Here you go
20:06:15  <MarkSlap>ödskivor_5_jan_2060.sav
20:07:00  <MarkSlap> Awh, god
20:07:03  <MarkSlap> Wait
20:07:15  <MarkSlap>
20:07:16  <MarkSlap> So
20:07:55  <MarkSlap> That didn't word well either
20:08:41  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: brb]
20:09:04  <MarkSlap>
20:12:02  <MarkSlap> Prof_Frink, how's it goin?
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20:32:24  <Wolf01> 'night
20:32:32  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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20:53:09  <Prof_Frink> It's going "I miss PBS"
20:53:28  <MarkSlap> :D
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21:04:37  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
21:16:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11184 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: cleanup the code related to backup orders.
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21:24:33  <Bjarni> we try something new once in a while
21:24:41  <Bjarni> <-- I was in a car like this tonight
21:24:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11185 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp industry_map.h): -Codechange: prepare some more code for the introduction of NewIndustries. Patch by Belugas.
21:25:01  <Bjarni> I didn't really like it though
21:25:25  <Bjarni> and now you can flame me for not liking it :P
21:26:20  <Bjarni> anybody here?
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21:27:47  <Bjarni> I guess not
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21:39:01  <MarkSlap> Bjarni, :D
21:39:14  *** Mark|AFK is now known as Mark
21:39:22  <MarkSlap> It's pretty quiet tonight
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22:29:12  <Prof_Frink> MarkSlap: Using 7-long stations, the only delay is leaving the wellhead
22:29:31  <MarkSlap> Mmkey
22:29:32  <MarkSlap> :)
22:29:45  <Prof_Frink> Less than 2Ml waiting
22:29:54  <MarkSlap> Ml?
22:30:00  <Prof_Frink> Megalitres
22:30:45  <MarkSlap> Ah
22:30:45  <MarkSlap> :D
22:31:55  <Prof_Frink> I have a fair few trains servicing the route
22:33:35  <MarkSlap> Okey :)
22:33:42  <Hendikins> Define fair few :P
22:34:17  * Hendikins would probably run fair few+1
22:34:36  <Prof_Frink> Erm, a hundred and forty
22:34:50  <Hendikins> Crikey
22:35:38  <Prof_Frink> 7x12 stations, pseudo-pbs on entry and a load rebalancer on wellhead exit
22:35:50  <Hendikins> I'd have a crack at it if I wasn't autofoxing
22:36:02  <Hendikins> Autofox kinda eats all the CPU time on my LAN
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22:37:28  *** dihedral|away is now known as dihedral
22:37:55  <fjb> What is pseudo-pbs?
22:38:04  <Prof_Frink> I'm impressed - both cores still on 800MHz
22:38:19  <Prof_Frink> fjb: What we did before true PBS was invented
22:38:42  <dihedral> hehe - i got autopilot to auto-kick people with the playername 'player' or 'Player' :-)
22:38:44  <Hendikins> Autofox is currently chewing 5 cores on my LAN
22:39:08  <Hendikins> Although it is using icecream's scheduler...
22:39:38  <fjb> How does pseudo-pbs work? OpenTTD doesn't have real pbs at the moment, if I'm right.
22:39:59  <dihedral> does not have any pbs at the moment
22:40:13  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: It has pseudo-pbs
22:40:20  <Prof_Frink> Because it has presignals
22:40:22  <dihedral> i.e. workaround with presignalling
22:40:25  <dihedral> yes
22:40:31  <Hendikins> Aren't we waiting for PBS that doesn't suck?
22:41:11  <Bjarni> btw I wonder about measuring fluids in litres. I have only seen fluids measured in m^3 when it comes to railroad stock (except stuff like amount of oil on gearbox or similar)
22:41:27  <fjb> Somebody ist making a real cool pbs, but it's a lot of work.
22:41:39  <Bjarni> who is making PBS?
22:41:48  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Would also sort out consistency
22:42:21  <fjb>
22:42:45  <Bjarni> ahh that
22:43:00  <Bjarni> Tekky wrote that so it's not an official statement
22:43:24  <Bjarni> would be interesting to see if he can manage to do this though
22:43:44  <fjb> But he is working on it, even we can not expect it in the near future.
22:43:58  <Bjarni> well, he claims to be working on it
22:44:12  <Bjarni> but it has been a while since I last saw him
22:44:32  <fjb> Better working on it than chatting here. :-)
22:44:54  <Bjarni> that's the positive way of looking at the facts
22:45:04  <Bjarni> the negative is that he dropped out
22:45:16  <Bjarni> and everything in between is also possible
22:45:44  <fjb> I think you could not do it in a couple of weeks. Things like that need more time.
22:46:22  <fjb> And how is pseudo-pbs working? Is there an example on the net?
22:46:57  <Bjarni> what is pseudo-pbs?
22:48:04  <Bjarni> <fjb> I think you could not do it in a couple of weeks. Things like that need more time. <--- yeah, but it would be natural to drop in once a week or so if you have progress to tell about
22:48:56  * fjb is back
22:50:33  <fjb> What parts of OpenTTD do you have to touch to implement it? I didn't look into the source that much yet.
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22:52:31  <AmixfX> ive had a fight with my kitty now
22:52:32  <AmixfX> ;p
22:52:44  <AmixfX> gave her a bath ;p
22:53:03  * Prof_Frink reconfigues the 6-2 merge as a 4-3 merge
22:53:22  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:55:11  <fjb> The poor cat...
22:55:28  <AmixfX> i know
22:55:44  <AmixfX> but she scratched her ear a lot
22:56:51  <_Ben_> hmm, Does anyone know if, which I have, you leave a game running for ages by mistake and trains stop being avaliable, so you cheat to set back the date.  Is it possible to get those trains to become available again?
22:57:11  <Bjarni> yeah
22:57:20  <Bjarni> write "resetengines" in the console
22:57:29  <Bjarni> but I think it's a singleplayer only thing
22:57:56  <_Ben_> ok thanks for that
22:58:10  <Bjarni> also enable the patch setting where they will not be taken out or it will happen again soon
22:58:17  <fjb> Is the console documented anywhere?
22:58:25  <_Ben_> yeah, I seemed to have turned that off at some point, not shore why
22:58:28  <_Ben_> shore/sure
22:58:40  <Bjarni> there is some in the wiki, but the main console documentation is the source code
22:58:51  <Bjarni> all the commands are next to each other in the same file
22:58:58  <Bjarni> console.cpp or something like that
22:59:10  <fjb> Ok, I'll have a look at the source.
23:01:24  <fjb> I have another question. When I make the houses transparent I can see how many passengers they make. But there are two numbers eg. 2/4. Waht do that numbers mean?
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23:23:43  <Sacro> rawr
23:23:46  *** Alltaken [] has joined #openttd
23:24:23  <Sacro> eek Alltaken
23:24:44  <Alltaken> hey hey its saturday ;)
23:24:52  <Sacro> so it is
23:24:57  <Sacro> but only just
23:24:58  <Alltaken> how ya gong Sacro
23:25:03  <Sacro> my gong?
23:25:05  <Alltaken> its like Mid-day saturday
23:25:15  <Alltaken> yeah hows ya gong
23:25:21  <Sacro> heh :)
23:25:25  <Sacro> its 00:25 here
23:25:31  <Sacro> not bad, just walked back from town though
23:25:37  <Sacro> too lazy to wait for the bus and then pay for it
23:26:26  <Alltaken> yeah fair enough
23:26:35  <Alltaken> so you are a bit tipsy then :P
23:26:50  <Sacro> nope, i'm teetotal
23:30:55  <fjb> Why do cities grow, when you move the people out of them? :-)
23:31:07  *** Dradge [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
23:32:50  <Belugas> Alltaken is still alive??  OMG!
23:32:54  <Belugas> hello :D
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23:34:23  <Alltaken> yep i'm still alive
23:34:57  <dihedral> hello Belugas
23:35:22  <Belugas> and dihedral is still awaken :D
23:35:34  <dihedral> just about, yes :-)
23:35:34  <Belugas> What a night!
23:35:36  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
23:35:36  <Bjarni> !logs
23:35:52  <Belugas> and yes, i still work@work, but now, it's work@home
23:36:04  <dihedral> ouch
23:36:16  <dihedral> now i do feel sorry for your wife and kid
23:36:18  <Bjarni> could be worse
23:36:25  <Bjarni> could be home@work
23:37:00  <Belugas> true Bjarni, who knows, it may be the case one day :(
23:37:05  <Belugas> dihedral, me too...
23:37:22  <Bjarni> but now you make a lot of money
23:37:33  <dihedral> yeah - great
23:37:37  <Bjarni> or you got a lousy work
23:37:46  <dihedral> i'd rather see my son grow up than make a lot of money :-)
23:38:08  <Bjarni> agreed
23:38:24  <Bjarni> but this work load is not a permanent thing
23:38:41  <dihedral> once a boss gets used to it... :-P
23:38:44  <Bjarni> either it's reduced or I can imagine that Belugas can find something else to do
23:39:03  <Bjarni> we all have to survive and such a constant work load is not good for survival
23:39:38  <dihedral> nope
23:39:39  <dihedral> it aint
23:40:02  <Bjarni> how do you know?
23:40:26  <dihedral> what you mean? how i know that such a work load aint good for ya?
23:40:35  <dihedral> had my share
23:40:40  <Bjarni> oh right
23:40:52  <dihedral> what did you mean?
23:41:05  * Bjarni remembers his plan about going to bed... more than an hour ago
23:41:17  <Bjarni> what I meant.... err.... don't ask :P
23:41:29  * dihedral remembers his plan about getting out of bed more than 12 hours ago
23:41:37  <dihedral> i am asking Bjarni
23:41:42  <dihedral> c'mon
23:42:09  <Bjarni> ok, I read it as you declared that Belugas' work load is constant and that he will never get any free time anymore
23:42:46  <Belugas> naa...
23:42:51  <Belugas> it's just a big phase rieght now
23:42:52  <dihedral> i dont remember putting it like that
23:43:02  <Bjarni> you didn't
23:43:13  <dihedral> i know - i would remember otherwise
23:43:16  <dihedral> :-P
23:43:38  <Bjarni> which is a clear sign that I should head for bed
23:43:43  <Bjarni> goodnight
23:43:44  <Belugas> the company took a lot of contracts by people who did not talked to each other and now, we all have to pay the price
23:43:47  <Belugas> bye
23:43:59  <dihedral> cu
23:44:00  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: the night brings out the worst kind of people: murderers, rapists, drugs dealers, prostitutes and windows users]
23:44:08  <Belugas> and whooo.... newindu still compiles :D
23:44:10  <dihedral> Belugas: what is that supposed to mean
23:44:15  <dihedral> lol
23:44:26  <dihedral> they all ran out on you or what
23:44:37  <Belugas> hem... the right hand never knows what the left does
23:44:45  <dihedral> nice
23:45:00  <dihedral> dont we love such things
23:45:01  <Belugas> and i'm stuck in the middle fullfilling everyone's expectations
23:45:07  <Belugas> no we dont
23:45:10  <Belugas> NO WE DONT
23:45:14  <Belugas> NOOOOO!!!!!!
23:45:33  * dihedral is not sure if Belugas understood the sarcasm in the ... undertone
23:45:46  <dihedral> :-P
23:46:09  <dihedral> i got autopilot to kick players if they are playing with the default nick
23:46:12  <dihedral> :-P
23:46:21  <dihedral> way looking forward to using that now
23:46:23  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Death? Death? Nobodie dies until I say so!]
23:49:02  <dihedral> well - i shall get some rest too
23:49:29  <dihedral> have a nice one Belugas and dont spend too much time infront of that box :-)
23:50:11  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
23:53:06  <Belugas> good advice...
23:53:12  <Belugas> like... quit it right now!
23:53:18  <Belugas> bye all
23:53:20  <Belugas> going to sleep now

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