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00:00:34 *** Guest515 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: i also noticed those things, but only on second and third view 00:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> my first thought was "that front looks somehow strange" 00:04:39 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acb4bfa.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 00:07:31 <Bjarni> goodnight 00:07:33 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a4165d.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:57 *** ^Duffy^ [noway@host-81-191-136-209.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:50 *** CobraA1 [~Jeremiah@75-163-151-200.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 00:14:13 *** CobraA1 [~Jeremiah@75-163-151-200.clsp.qwest.net] has left #openttd [] 00:18:31 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-183-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:20:56 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:23:12 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 00:35:41 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has joined #openttd 00:36:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-152-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:07 <fjb> Good night. 00:49:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D7D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] 01:02:46 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74C3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:07:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:12:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11192 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Little typo with bigger consequences when trying to remove a newindustries aware grf 01:13:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B758DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:18:44 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498FE9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:32 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498CED6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:27:47 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-133-247.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 01:31:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B752F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:37:38 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B758DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:38 <Ben_1> So there is only 2 lamppost sprites it would seem?...if thats correct thats a bit of a problem when you zoom in...sigh 01:47:44 <Ben_1> maybe they'll have to become centered streetlamps or something. Has anybody made any streetlamp sprites before that I could take a look at? 01:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... what? 01:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> there must be four sprites, one for each direction 01:49:18 <Ben_1> looking through trg1r I only found 2 streetlamp sprites, while really there needs to be 4... I'm hoping I've missed the others 01:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> is there a site listing all sprites? 01:51:41 <Ben_1> I'm not sure. I think I saw a few train numbers written down once, but I just scan down the files with the sprites in usually. Looking at a screenshot there does appear to only be 2 sprites though 01:51:59 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498CED6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:54:42 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498DBCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:01 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> if i skim through the code, the lamps look like they are just a line, not a real sprite 02:41:48 <Ben_1> there is a sprite on the sheet, but there is 1 sprite number which has the 2 lamps beneath it. Yet they appear to appear indepenantly 02:43:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acb4bfa.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:46:02 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-133-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:50:27 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acfa068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 02:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> it just skips printing the next number because the sprite is too thin 02:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> so it's just lamps for right and left, not north/east/south/west 02:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, then you either change the source to adapt to 4 directions, and map them to the 2 existing sprites for 8bpp, or you stick to the 2 directions in 32bpp 02:59:51 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla] 03:04:48 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 03:05:58 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:07:34 <Ben_1> Eddi|zuHause2: How easy would changing the source be? I wouldn't be able to do it, but would it be worth making sprites for 4 angles and asume someone will be able to sort the rest at some point? 03:09:12 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180064119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the most complicated point would be the mapping to the 2 old sprites part, but i have no real experience in that part 03:14:30 <Ben_1> alright, cheers. I'l come back to them another time. Just been messing with the platform/station tonight, not done but its coming along > http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/ben_robbins_/024-Station.png 03:14:36 <Ben_1> lampposts are kinda anoying though 03:16:13 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498DBCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:17:43 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498E53B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:27:40 <Ben_1> night 03:31:01 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-084-058-012-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:37:58 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-084-058-020-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:54 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7D76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 04:13:14 *** nickname [~ident@ip70-176-19-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd 04:13:35 <nickname> so its the year 2024... and i'm still waiting for monorails 04:13:36 <nickname> what gives 04:30:41 <Rubidium> what climate? 04:30:49 <Rubidium> an which newgrfs are loaded? 04:30:54 <nickname> desert 04:30:57 <nickname> and the us trainset one 04:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> newgrf sets usually do not contain monorail 04:31:22 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:31:30 <nickname> hrm, guess its time to start a new game 04:31:38 <DaleStan> The USSet contains no monorail or maglev. 04:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> because in TTDPatch you have to drop either monorail or maglev to enable elrail 04:32:15 <Rubidium> isn't it the case that desert doesn't have monorail in normal games either? 04:32:22 <nickname> they do 04:32:27 <DaleStan> Nope. Because there is no large-scale use of either monorail or Maglev in the US. 04:32:38 <nickname> if i'm not using newgrf, and i'm in desert, what kind of time span do i have between the first electric and and when the monorail comes? 04:32:51 <DaleStan> No *electric* in desert without newgrfs. 04:33:03 <nickname> oh, ok, well that solves that problem 04:33:13 <DaleStan> Monorail is usually around 2005 to 2010, I think. 04:33:54 <nickname> i love the desert the most... i love having everyhting interconnected 04:44:55 * Hendikins looks through the pile of crap that RailCorp posted to him about his new job 04:45:44 <Ailure> I think monorail actually comes a bit earlier than 2005 04:45:46 <Ailure> 2000 04:46:00 * nickname does the mr burns thing 04:46:02 <nickname> *excellent* 04:46:08 <nickname> guess i'm gonna start a new game 04:46:20 <Ailure> ah 04:46:24 <Ailure> 1999 actually 04:46:38 <Hendikins> I'm going to be playing with railways at a scale of 1:1 :) 04:47:55 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 05:01:54 <Ailure> been ages since I last touched monorail 05:02:21 <Ailure> mostly becuse the trainsets I use tend to lack monorail trains 05:03:01 <Hendikins> I tend to go electric -> maglev 05:04:53 <Ailure> I don't replace my electrical railroads, just rather build maglev aside my railways 05:05:08 <Ailure> since maglev is unsuitable for bulk cargo :P 05:08:40 <nickname> unsuitable? 05:15:14 <Ailure> yeah 05:15:42 <Ailure> that's why most train sets who have maglev technology only carries passengers, and maybe containers too 05:16:04 <nickname> i dont get it 05:16:05 <nickname> why 05:17:38 <Ailure> Can the superspeed maglev system used to transport goods? 05:17:38 <Ailure> The superspeed maglev system is suited to transport valuable express goods that can be packed into containers. Special vehicles are available for freight traffic. The freight sections can be combined to form goods-only trains and mixed trains carrying both passengers and freight. Each freight section has a capacity of 17 t. The operating speeds of freight vehicles and passenger vehicles are the same. 05:17:38 <Ailure> The maglev system is not designed to transport heavy and bulk goods because it isn't reasonable to transport coal, ore, steel or oil at 500 km/h. 05:17:59 <Ailure> from the transrapid FAQ 05:18:05 <Ailure> it might be diffrent for other maglev's, but I doubt it 05:18:27 <nickname> oh 05:18:31 <nickname> well i dont really care about realism 05:18:56 <Ailure> well it's a gameplay issue for me too :) 05:19:06 <Ailure> I like variation 05:19:29 <Ailure> it's neat to mix diffrent types of transport :P 05:20:38 <Ailure> I find myself making new passenger lines with maglev most of the time, and leave the old railroad network for industrial bulk goods 05:20:54 <nickname> mmm 05:20:56 <nickname> you know 05:21:01 <nickname> i dont understand the point of transfer 05:21:21 <nickname> i have ti going on my game, but the train that delivers the goods to the final destinaion, just looses me lots of money ever yyear 05:21:54 <Ailure> That's due how transfer works actually 05:22:02 <Ailure> there's ways of avoiding it too 05:22:14 <nickname> how? 05:22:32 <Ailure> such as avoiding going from a fast to slow transport 05:22:41 <Ailure> such as aircraft -> ship 05:22:52 <nickname> i'm doing all trains 05:22:56 <nickname> but its a very large distance 05:23:00 <nickname> like halfway across the map 05:23:07 <nickname> and its like a 512x512 map 05:23:14 <Ailure> hmm 05:23:16 <Ailure> then I dunno 05:23:33 <Ailure> unless the other train waits for a really long time 05:24:01 <Ailure> the money that a train gains when transferring cargo is just merely virtual 05:24:09 <Ailure> the real money comes when the last vhicle unloads the cargo 05:24:35 <Ailure> and if it's less profit than the virtual money earlier, it reports a loss 05:24:38 <nickname> the last train looses alot of money when it picks up the cargo 05:24:47 <Ailure> then I dunno 05:24:51 <Ailure> I'm not sure how you set it up 05:57:06 *** boekabart [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has joined #openttd 05:57:12 <boekabart> gooood morning 06:01:09 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:01:09 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01:36 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:15:18 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5acfa068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 06:16:49 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acfa068.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:08 *** gfldex_ is now known as gfldex 06:39:03 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:03 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:18 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:39:19 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:46:25 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:03:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-132-40.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 07:05:43 <mcbane> good morning 07:06:17 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 07:06:47 <nickname> crazy europeaners 07:07:52 <mcbane> depends on what you define as crazy =D 07:08:42 <nickname> lol 07:08:48 <nickname> saying good morning at midnight 07:12:13 <Alltaken> it should be good evening 07:12:52 *** dihedral|work [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has joined #openttd 07:12:54 <mcbane> ah, ya west coast, aye? 07:13:07 <dihedral|work> morning 07:13:13 <nickname> arizona 07:13:16 <nickname> i hate the west coast 07:13:30 <Rubidium> crazy Americans.. saying midnight when it's clearly morning! 07:13:32 * mcbane grins. 07:13:34 <nickname> lol 07:17:41 <boekabart> Rubidium: in your part of the country it's clear this morning? ;) 07:18:16 *** nickname [~ident@ip70-176-19-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:18:38 <boekabart> Is this the only time of day when both 'oceanians', us-ians and eu-ans are bored enough to chat here? 07:20:11 <Alltaken> na i'm on the east coast ;-) 07:20:21 <boekabart> of... 07:20:33 <boekabart> nz? aus? one of those right? 07:20:36 <Alltaken> of the "south island" (creative bunch 07:20:42 <Rubidium> boekabart: I can see the RTV Oost antenna from here 07:20:57 <boekabart> Rubidium: it would be really clear if I could :) 07:21:03 <Alltaken> boekabart: yeah NZ 07:21:15 <boekabart> Alltaken: ah, then IRC 07:22:26 <boekabart> Rubidium: how do I ask DorpsGek what the hex value for -8 is? 07:22:43 <boekabart> (0xF7 or F8, one of those i guess but it's too early to think) 07:23:42 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 07:25:29 <Rubidium> boekabart: -1 = 0xFF (or 0xFFFF (or 0xFFFFFFFF (or ...))) 07:25:40 <boekabart> i know that 07:25:57 <boekabart> thanks for giving me so much credit :) 07:25:57 <Rubidium> so @calc 256 - 8 and then paste that into @base 10 16 07:26:13 <boekabart> DorpsGek: @calc 256-8 07:26:33 <boekabart> @base 10 16 248 07:26:33 <DorpsGek> boekabart: F8 07:26:42 <boekabart> merci beaucoup 07:27:19 <Rubidium> boekabart: the RTV Oost antenna is "only" 350 meters away though (well, there's a plant in between, but that's all) 07:28:26 <boekabart> well if you can't see the sun or it's direct light, it's not clear :) 07:28:40 <boekabart> assert(sun.up); 07:30:18 <Rubidium> well, the flashing red lights would be... 07:35:48 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C831.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:45:51 <mcbane> hmm 07:48:23 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 07:51:55 *** TinoM|Mobil [~tino@i5387C831.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:55:25 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:57:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D2B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:17:50 *** TinoM|Mobil [~tino@i5387C831.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:23:42 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-132-40.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:24:39 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:26:28 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-93-109.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:28:31 <mcbane> stuff i dont understand. i switch on newAI and in multiplayer AI creating companies but when i start without new AI no company is getting started. 08:30:53 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-137-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:04 <boekabart> mcbane: i would consider that good news :) 08:31:19 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 08:31:43 <mcbane> wel the newai switch shouldnt cause that i think 08:32:11 <mcbane> newai means that the ai is partially implemented from AI brach or am i wrong 08:32:24 <boekabart> no 08:32:24 <Rubidium> no, that was another attempt 08:32:41 <Rubidium> it's just that "newai" doesn't cheat, whereas "oldai" does like hell 08:33:10 <Rubidium> which makes "oldai" not suitable for network play, as other people might exploit the "oldai" cheats 08:33:15 <mcbane> well with old ai (newai off) there is no company created in multiplayer. 08:33:32 <mcbane> i have buy others off =) 08:33:54 <Rubidium> as oldai cannot be used in multiplayer, due to it's vast need to cheat 08:34:46 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:34:51 <mcbane> ok, got it. 08:34:55 <boekabart> Rubidium: Any idea how it can happen that in traincontroller, GetDirectionToNextVehicle is called with the location of the 'previous' vehicle == the new location of the 'current' (following) one?? 08:43:40 <Rubidium> enters/leaves the depot? 08:44:09 <boekabart> no, that's handled 08:44:15 <boekabart> hm 08:45:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D2B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:26 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:10:53 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:27:07 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:20 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-213-196-229-50.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 09:46:18 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:24 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:36 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 10:00:56 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 10:04:17 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:07 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:14:15 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:21:19 *** Administrator_ [Administra@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 10:23:09 *** Administrator_ [Administra@145.94.37.133] has quit [] 10:23:13 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 10:28:38 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 10:31:03 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:57:41 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489D027.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:02:54 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489BB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:43 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:15:29 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:17:37 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:39 *** vicky [~vicky@59.184.22.35] has joined #openttd 11:18:19 <vicky> hello 11:19:11 *** vicky [~vicky@59.184.22.35] has left #openttd [] 11:21:29 <Amixwoktest> hey 11:30:12 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 11:46:53 *** Enigma_Nova [~icechat5@ppp121-44-124-169.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:58 <Enigma_Nova> Hi guys. 11:47:09 <Enigma_Nova> Must all be afk. 11:47:11 *** Enigma_Nova [~icechat5@ppp121-44-124-169.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [] 11:48:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, like you can determine that within 30 seconds... 11:50:20 <mcbane> heh 11:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> ... in a channel where the average conversation has a reply every 2 hours 11:52:08 <mcbane> slightly delayed answers. 11:53:53 <Brianetta> determine what? 11:55:16 <Brianetta> irc.lug.org.uk #linux has stop-motion conversation 11:55:22 <hylje> :o 11:55:33 <Brianetta> Looks perfectly normal unsil you examine the timestamps 11:56:29 <hylje> everybody apparently filters out joins quits nicks parts and deliberately omits tiemstamps 11:56:56 <Brianetta> everybody doesn't include me 11:57:16 <hylje> yeah, you're like that 11:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> Brianetta: just yet another guy who does /join - "Hi" - "Nobody here." - /quit 11:59:23 <Brianetta> Loser. 11:59:34 <Brianetta> Doesn't deserve the enlightenment that is our conversation. 11:59:51 <hylje> ive seen people who caught up in middle of a discussion 11:59:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-93-109.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:05 <hylje> and left because they didnt get immedetiate answer 12:00:17 <Brianetta> You should see the Linux channels 12:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's about what i thought, too, but i can't formulate my thoughts into words 12:00:31 <hylje> i'm lurking some ubuntu channels 12:00:37 <hylje> and a l33t h4x0r distro channel 12:00:39 <Brianetta> People barge in, demand an immediate solution to their esoteric, rare and yet extremely important problem 12:00:56 <Brianetta> l33t h4x0r? Can only be Gentoo. 12:00:58 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-1-84.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> they can't even spell h4xx0r correctly... 12:01:30 <hylje> google spells it h4x0r 12:01:33 <Brianetta> Eddi: Correctly, it's h4><0r 12:01:34 <hylje> so it must be right 12:01:59 <Ailure> hx 12:02:02 <hylje> for the record, it's not gentoo. gentoo's too popular for l33t h4x0rs 12:02:05 <Brianetta> Ailure: Only on SMS 12:02:18 <Ailure> y 12:02:19 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-213-196-229-50.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:02:19 <Brianetta> Gentoo is for ricers. 12:02:24 <Ailure> lol, sorry couldn't resist 12:02:44 <SpComb> I was about to correct haxxors -> ricers 12:02:51 <SpComb> :( 12:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> you're right, h4><0r wins 12:03:53 <SpComb> but whenever somebody mentions having some issues with gentoo updates breaking their system, one needs to say "(I wouldn't use gentoo unless I secretly enjoyed this)" 12:05:43 <Ailure> [13:58] <Eddi|zuHause2> Brianetta: just yet another guy who does /join - "Hi" - "Nobody here." - /quit 12:05:51 <Ailure> Haha that's way too common with IRC channels 12:06:01 <Ailure> it's even more funny when someone replies mere seconds after he quitted 12:06:26 <Ailure> People are too impatient. :P 12:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> sorry for my ignorance, but what is a ricer? 12:08:25 <Brianetta> Somebody who takes an Opal Nova and puts fins, tails and stripes on it to make it look like it goes faster. 12:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, those people typically drive an Opel Manta here ;) 12:09:35 <Ailure> People who spend more time tweaking, than actually using the damn thing? 12:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> and are at war with people who drive a Golf instead 12:10:19 <Brianetta> Ailure: funroll-loops.org has expired, unfortunately, but it was a superb satire 12:11:22 <Brianetta> http://web.archive.org/web/20061004200708/http://www.funroll-loops.org/ 12:11:35 <Brianetta> There you go 12:11:41 <Brianetta> The Wayback machine saves the day 12:14:47 <Ailure> haha oh god 12:14:51 <Ailure> some of the quotes 12:14:53 <Brianetta> yes 12:14:58 <Ailure> "Why *SHOULDN'T* you put a production server on gentoo? I mean, THOSE things should perform REALLY well, and gentoo is just the thing that does that..." 12:15:06 <Brianetta> My server used to be Gentoo 12:15:15 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:15:17 <Brianetta> but Gentoo slowly destroyed itself 12:15:22 <Ailure> I use Ubuntu on my laptop 12:15:26 <Brianetta> so I replaced it with Trustix 12:15:38 <Ailure> Bet Gentoo users consider it a n00b distro 12:15:48 <Brianetta> Gentoo's "use" flags are touted as a huge advantage 12:16:02 <Brianetta> Like, if you have no printer, you can compile everything without support for printing 12:16:15 <Brianetta> No CUPS, no drivers, nothing 12:16:16 <Phazorx> heh what do they ahve against gentoo? 12:16:19 <Brianetta> and then 12:16:24 <Brianetta> when you buy a printer 12:16:37 <Brianetta> you have to add printing to your "use" and then... 12:16:37 <Ailure> I really don't see how huge speed improvment that would have 12:16:41 <Brianetta> rebuild the entire bloody OS! 12:16:53 <Phazorx> Brianetta: 2 things 12:17:00 <Brianetta> Phazorx: It was an example 12:17:09 <Phazorx> think ahead being first... and plan how you gonna use your hardware 12:17:14 <Brianetta> You could switch "gnome support" for "printing" 12:17:22 <Phazorx> second, ity will recompile your damn os with 2 commands 12:17:26 <Brianetta> You might believe you're a KDE man, through and through 12:17:27 <Phazorx> and will work after reboot 12:17:32 <Phazorx> which is a beauty to see 12:17:45 <Brianetta> with 2 commands and a whole bunch of time 12:17:48 <Ailure> "I am a long time Gentoo user, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I believe that as hardware gets faster, it makes sense to migrate to a largely source-based Linux system. Binary packages encourage inconsistency and incompatibility, whearas source encourages unified development frameworks and integration." 12:17:53 <Ailure> hahha what 12:18:00 <Phazorx> who cares, point being you do have that option 12:18:16 <Brianetta> You're not going to convince me that Gentoo is good. I used it as a primary OS on my four machines for four years. 12:18:44 <Phazorx> it runs about on 30 servers at my prious place ar wrk :) 12:18:47 <Brianetta> The very fact that the documentation didn't mention that you sould always emerge upgrades with --deep, for example, cost me an installation 12:18:57 <Brianetta> once glibc was too old to upgrade itself 12:19:03 <Brianetta> and the compiler failed 12:19:08 <Phazorx> that is sad, indeed 12:19:09 <valhallasw> if you should do that, why isn't it the default? :| 12:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: let me guess, it also runs your keyboard :p 12:19:18 <Brianetta> valhallasw: NFI. 12:19:32 <Brianetta> That was why my server needed a reinstall 12:19:41 <Brianetta> It was 350 miles away, and couldn't be updated. 12:19:53 <Brianetta> Once I switched ISPs, I took the opportunity to reinstall the OS. 12:20:01 <valhallasw> -_- 12:20:11 <Ailure> heh 12:20:18 <Ailure> "I essentially started using Gentoo because my ....ing KDE clock would never show the right time in Red Hat." 12:20:24 <Ailure> I wonder how he even got Gentoo working 12:20:28 <Phazorx> upgrade is a relegion imo 12:20:35 <valhallasw> kde :'( 12:20:37 <Brianetta> I'd already given up on Gentoo at home, because it took so long to upgrade OpenOffice.org that the *next* one was available by the time it had finished. 12:20:38 <valhallasw> xfce4 O+ 12:20:55 <Phazorx> some people think it is a way to save and imptrove things.. i mostly dont believe in it :) 12:20:55 <Ailure> hah 12:21:05 <Ailure> unlike why I love the package manager in Linux 12:21:14 <Ailure> almost anything I installed through the package manager 12:21:16 <Ailure> is easily upgradable 12:21:26 <Ailure> in a painless way 12:21:26 <Brianetta> Also, I took the time to measure performance on Gentoo and on subsequent Fedora installations 12:21:35 <Brianetta> About parity, was the result. 12:21:45 <Ailure> heh Fedora 12:21:50 <Ailure> First distrobution I used 12:22:02 <valhallasw> I hear good stories about ubuntu 12:22:03 <Brianetta> My first was Slackware Professional Linux 2.0 12:22:11 <Ailure> I used some early version of it 12:22:14 <Brianetta> I currently recommend Ubuntu to the LUG embers 12:22:14 <Ailure> where some stuff was broken 12:22:19 <Ailure> I tried slackware next 12:22:25 <Ailure> LUG? 12:22:30 <Brianetta> embers? hot coals? I menat members 12:22:34 <valhallasw> linux user group 12:22:36 <Ailure> ah 12:22:37 <valhallasw> or sth 12:22:38 <Ailure> Well 12:22:41 <Brianetta> Ailure: I run http://www.tyneside.lug.org.uk/ 12:22:50 <Brianetta> In fact, I founded it 12:22:56 <Brianetta> we're one of the oldest 12:23:00 <Ailure> intresting 12:23:06 <Ailure> I really enjoy Ubuntu 12:23:10 <valhallasw> bbl 12:23:13 <Ailure> and that's someone who tried severeal linux distros and even a BSD 12:23:18 <Ailure> *from someone 12:23:26 <Brianetta> People ask me when I switched from Windows 12:23:29 <Brianetta> I laugh at them 12:23:33 <Brianetta> I actually switched from DOS 12:23:35 <Phazorx> Brianetta: not sure about fedora, but i moved from RHEL to gentoo 12:23:56 <Phazorx> compiling own kernel and optimizing DB binaries gave 10-15% 12:24:05 <Brianetta> Phazorx: My real beef with Gentoo is the amount of active maintenance it requires. 12:24:26 <Phazorx> Brianetta: well i'm not sure if any is required 12:24:31 <Brianetta> emerging a new package often requires updating other things, and you need to be careful every damned time 12:24:38 <Phazorx> unless you constaly mod/develop whatever the box is doing 12:24:53 <Brianetta> "ooh, I think I'll try that network analyser" 12:25:13 <Phazorx> Brianetta: on a working server 12:25:22 <Brianetta> Phazorx: This was my desktop 12:25:29 <Phazorx> you are going to try to do soemthing that is capable of messing u your whole setup? 12:25:35 <Brianetta> I wouldn't even consider Gentoo on a machine I couldn't physically reach 12:25:37 <Phazorx> well so that is your test box 12:25:44 <Phazorx> it meants to be rebooted 12:25:45 <Brianetta> My test box? 12:25:47 <Brianetta> No 12:25:52 <Brianetta> That's the machine I work on 12:26:08 <Brianetta> Installing packages on other distributions doesn't affect stability 12:26:22 <Phazorx> with servers there was one dedicated test/spare, which was doing compiling/updating and maintained local portage mirror 12:26:26 <Ailure> [14:24] <Brianetta> I wouldn't even consider Gentoo on a machine I couldn't physically reach 12:26:27 <Ailure> Obviously 12:26:35 <Ailure> I mean heh 12:26:47 <Ailure> I help a friend of mine to adminstrate a Linux server in a server farm 12:26:48 <Phazorx> so other servers with identical setup just sync from it if really neded 12:26:54 <Phazorx> uptime was tree nines 12:26:58 <Ailure> the few times it have gone down for random reasons it's been painful to get it up again 12:27:05 <Ailure> usually hardware related failures 12:27:45 <Ailure> so I can only imagine what would happen if you just do a improper update that breaks SSH or even the system as whole 12:28:29 <Phazorx> Ailure: yet agaion i'm against updationg unless you have really good reason 12:28:47 <Phazorx> and you dont just *try* updating soemthing that is unreachalble and meant to be up all time 12:28:48 <Ailure> we don't upgrade often on that server 12:28:51 <Brianetta> Really good reasons include security updates 12:28:53 <Ailure> I upgrade whenever I can on my laptop though 12:29:03 <Brianetta> You can't leave old packages on internet servers 12:29:09 <Ailure> and yeah, that's true 12:29:10 <Phazorx> Brianetta: i tend to separate pieces that ensure security and do work 12:29:28 <Brianetta> Separate how? What if it's an ssh vulnerability? 12:29:30 <Ailure> security problems tend to get widely known fast 12:29:52 <Brianetta> and lo, the update requires 14 other updates 12:29:56 <Phazorx> well i dont think ANY of servers that might be vulerable should be SSH availabled from the net 12:30:02 <Phazorx> now of servers i managed were 12:30:20 <Phazorx> there was dedeicated LAN for console acces with VPN access to it 12:30:36 <Brianetta> I can't afford that amount of datacentre space 12:30:39 <Brianetta> 1u is all I rent 12:30:58 <Brianetta> and I have zero physical access 12:31:02 <Phazorx> well you should not be conserned much about security having not that much of scale 12:31:06 <Brianetta> unless I buy time in the build room 12:31:17 <Brianetta> I shouldn't be concerned with security? 12:31:26 <Brianetta> It's my first, and often only, concern 12:31:43 <Brianetta> If my box is compromised, I am totally screwed 12:32:38 <Phazorx> well security updates based on internet based bulettin is not a guarantee, since it is reactive rather than proactive 12:32:59 <Brianetta> If I were to be proactive, I lose all portage benefits. 12:33:22 <Brianetta> As it happens, Trustix excels in every respect over Gewntoo, on my server. 12:33:32 <Phazorx> if i care about security i emply preventive methods to level of not having a need to deploy patches/updates unless there is a major software change 12:34:02 <Brianetta> You can't learn about security holes first, unless you're some kind of psychic 12:34:03 <Phazorx> like hoin from apache/modphp/mysql4 to lighttpd/fastcgi/mysql5 12:34:16 <Brianetta> They have their own holes 12:34:32 <Phazorx> Brianetta: exactly so you stop having "things" that might have/develop security holes 12:34:38 <Brianetta> Like saying, because I switched to dovecot, I don't need to worry about POP3 vulnerabilities 12:34:58 <Brianetta> Still, despite its total emphasis on security, it's had several security fixes this year. 12:35:03 <Phazorx> Brianetta: if you switch to exchange - you dont tho 12:35:07 <Phazorx> because pop is not used anymore 12:35:21 <Phazorx> so you dont need ssh upades if there is no way to get to ssh 12:35:32 <Phazorx> you donty need to worry about apache updates if you dont use apache 12:35:41 <Brianetta> I'm not going to switch to a proprietary system. They have security hoes that don't even get looked at. 12:35:43 <Phazorx> you dont need phpnuke/wordpost fizxes if you dont have them 12:36:03 <Brianetta> Phazorx: You need fixes for the things you have instead 12:36:11 <Phazorx> well i'm not suggesting that, but that is the general apraoch 12:36:15 <Brianetta> Crumbs, I run my own web software 12:36:21 <Brianetta> I write my own security fixes 12:36:30 <Phazorx> fixing whole is not guaranteeing anything, not having them in first places gives confidence 12:36:36 <Brianetta> Avoiding popular software isn't the issue 12:36:46 <Brianetta> I *need* a web server 12:36:53 <Brianetta> I *need* ssh 12:37:09 <Brianetta> In fact, I use ssh to secure a bunch of other protocols. 12:37:13 <Phazorx> you webserver can be limited in functionality to what you need 12:37:17 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has joined #openttd 12:37:28 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-234.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:37:36 <Brianetta> It can? 12:37:43 <Phazorx> ssh can be limited to only set of ips, or betetr yet use different network interfaface with VPN 12:37:52 <Brianetta> I need to connect from anywhere 12:37:56 <Brianetta> including dynamic IPs 12:38:06 <Phazorx> Brianetta: nope, you dont, you can proxy 12:38:13 <Brianetta> I am proxying at the moment 12:38:31 <Brianetta> and there are some IP based restrictions 12:38:36 <Phazorx> i used radmin to my work box, or ssh to it even from blackberry, and then get to server 12:38:40 <Brianetta> but what makes my SSH secure isn't that 12:39:01 <Brianetta> It's using keys only, and automatically blocking IPs that attempt to log in with a password. 12:39:16 <Phazorx> well not having listner on port 22 on same IP you run webserver is much better 12:39:17 <Brianetta> In any case, the issue isn't whether SSH should or shouldn't be used 12:39:28 <Brianetta> It's whether Gentoo can adequately provide secure updates 12:39:42 <Brianetta> Bearing in mind that Trustix can, and it never, ever breaks 12:40:11 <Phazorx> as efficient as any other compiled OS i guess 12:40:24 <Phazorx> i have nothing againstr trustix and given your situation it is a wise choice 12:40:52 <Phazorx> how right tool for right job is a good philosophy 12:41:15 <Phazorx> if you need a lot of people you use bus, if you need to get there fast you use sportscar 12:41:41 <Phazorx> doesnt mean evier is bad as long as they are used within relm of their capabilities 12:42:45 <Phazorx> point being - gentoo with it's "flawed" system of updates and "inability" to guess what user might need in future and eliminating these options of expandability has it's place 12:43:45 *** boekabart [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has left #openttd [] 12:45:54 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:45:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:46:04 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:10 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:03:51 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:12:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E1F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:32:57 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:39:04 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7802.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:14 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd 14:10:19 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-208-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:14:38 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34279 <- my new tool :) 14:15:27 <Amixwoktest> nice 14:15:33 <Amixwoktest> now support MorphOS ;) 14:16:17 <Amixwoktest> Born_Acorn: what sort of os is RiscOS really? 14:16:26 <Amixwoktest> ive allways wondered about Acorn 14:16:42 <Amixwoktest> looked at it as a competitor to Amiga back in days 14:18:25 <Rubidium> now write a delphi parser for GCC ;) 14:19:09 <frosch123> try freepascal 14:19:17 <frosch123> except pngdelphi, it should work 14:19:26 <Amixwoktest> write in DSL language 14:19:39 <Amixwoktest> and you suddendly support way more plattforms 14:19:41 <Amixwoktest> ;) 14:20:13 <Rubidium> isn't dsl a little too low level to be usefull? 14:20:31 <Amixwoktest> no 14:20:44 <Amixwoktest> Pixel32 etc is SDL product 14:21:27 <Rubidium> oh.. I had HDL in mind ;) 14:22:14 <Amixwoktest> http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12 14:22:18 <Amixwoktest> :) 14:23:24 <Amixwoktest> Pixel is a RGB, CMYK and HDR image editing, photo retouching, graphics manipulating and animation program available for many operating systems formerly known as Pixel32. It is available for Windows, Linux, Linspire, MacOSX, BeOS, Zeta, QNX, MorphOS, FreeBSD, eComStation, OS/2, SkyOS and even old plain DOS, for both x86 and PowerPC architectures. 14:23:59 <Rubidium> boring... who cares about pixels in the context of nfo? 14:24:13 <Amixwoktest> ¿ 14:24:38 <Rubidium> (yes, I know his post says grf, but it's rather the nfo-part of the GRF it handles than the pcx part) 14:25:12 <Amixwoktest> ohh 14:25:20 <Amixwoktest> ill stop now 14:25:31 <Amixwoktest> because now i dont know what were talking about, lol 14:25:32 <Amixwoktest> ;p 14:25:36 <frosch123> But it reads grfs. They are a lot easier to parse, than nfo. 14:41:41 <Progman> frosch123: how looks a sample html file? 14:43:01 <frosch123> decode one :) 14:43:22 <Progman> no wine atm 14:43:57 <Progman> you should provide an example in the forum post anyway 14:44:23 <frosch123> Then tell me one, which I can publish without making the author angry. 14:44:48 <Progman> ah, damn, of course... 14:44:57 <Belugas> whooo.... cool tool :) 14:44:59 <Belugas> just saw it 14:47:04 <Rubidium> Ammler's nothing.grf (I think) 14:51:13 <frosch123> Hmm, perhaps I can make some screenshots, which noone can associate to a grf... 14:51:47 * dihedral|work greets Belugas 14:52:29 * Belugas sendsd back greetings to dihedral|work 14:52:39 * TrueBrain slaps dihedral|work 14:53:15 * dihedral|work slaps TrueBrain back 14:53:26 <dihedral|work> what was that for 14:53:31 <TrueBrain> nothing 14:53:34 <TrueBrain> just felt like it 14:53:36 <dihedral|work> :-P 14:54:09 <dihedral|work> thought i might have said something while you were gone that you just could have read in the logs 14:54:49 <TrueBrain> who knowsw :p 14:55:24 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 14:56:34 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:00:02 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:26 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A573C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:54 <ln-> wtf, someone having a race in F1 gp, positions changing without pitstops; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuxOv2kvjA4 15:04:50 <ln-> doesn't sound like the good old "schumacher is on the 1st position and has 3-minute gap to the second one" 15:05:13 <hylje> UNPOSSIBLE 15:06:46 <mcbane> unpossible? 15:07:20 <dihedral|work> abso-f'n-lutely 15:13:14 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 15:15:15 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 15:16:08 <SmatZ> hello 15:33:42 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-1-84.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:34:37 <frosch123> another 123 :) 15:36:00 <Sionide> beginning with f as well 15:36:49 <TrueBrain> depending on how much either one of you two are going to chat, I guess that will be confusing, and will lead to kicks :p 15:37:30 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:42 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-1-84.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:37:43 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 15:37:46 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 15:39:47 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-188-140.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 15:39:48 <TrueBrain> bah, no kicking today :( 15:42:15 <Ammler> TrueBrain: kicking is a good keyword, is it hard to extend the function banning for a whole subnet? 15:42:45 * TrueBrain sets mode +b *!*@*.ch 15:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm afraid he means in the game :p 15:49:04 <TrueBrain> bah 15:49:58 <Ammler> our workaround is atm to ban the guy from IRC and web 15:50:12 <Ammler> so, he can't get the password 15:50:26 <glx> like soup? 15:50:30 <Ammler> yep 15:51:36 <Ammler> but maybe there is a "builtin function" for C++ to compare with subnets? 15:51:48 <TrueBrain> it means you need to get the rdns 15:51:58 <TrueBrain> which currently isn't implemented at all I think 15:52:06 <TrueBrain> so it takes a bit of work, but not undoable 15:52:16 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: rdns? 15:52:25 <Phazorx> Ammler means by ip + cidr 15:52:37 <Ammler> I don't need dns for banning subnets 15:52:49 <TrueBrain> you want to ban on IP base... 15:52:52 <TrueBrain> doable, but less useful 15:52:54 <Ammler> sometinng like 192.* 15:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean in the form of 192.168.0.* 15:53:00 <TrueBrain> if you do it, you can better do it based on dns 15:53:00 <Phazorx> no 15:53:08 <TrueBrain> a bit more effort, but more useful 15:53:08 <Phazorx> i mean 192.168.0.0/16 15:53:17 <TrueBrain> anyway, feel free to make a patch ;) 15:53:20 <Ammler> Phazorx: is there a difference? 15:53:28 <Phazorx> Ammler: cidr more flexible 15:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> in german we say "das selbe in grÃŒn" 15:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> or "dasselbe", i'm never sure... 15:54:17 <Ammler> Àhm, TrueBrain, I ask you because you know C++ better (much) then me, so you might know if there is already a function... 15:54:38 <Ammler> you don't have to do it 15:55:10 <Phazorx> Ammler: 192.168.64.1/29 - bans only 8 ips 15:55:24 <Phazorx> Ammler: 192.168.64.128/29 - bans othjer 8 ips 15:55:59 <Ammler> Phazorx: it depense on the function, which you can use 15:56:00 <TrueBrain> Ammler: in fact, because of a 'bug' you had this feature a while back 15:56:06 <TrueBrain> 'someone' fixed it :p 15:56:08 <Phazorx> and isp buy ip ranges in these segments so bans for ips/locale makes much more sense with bitmask 15:56:33 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: still, rdns-based makes much more sense ;) 15:56:50 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: just as much sense, perhaps easier to manage tho 15:56:52 <TrueBrain> (as ISPs have several ip-ranges ;)) 15:57:14 <Ammler> yeah, like the IRC 15:57:14 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i dont mind digging ips and whoising isps for desired effect 15:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> +b *.t-dialin.net 15:57:20 <Phazorx> i do mind lacking ability to do it 15:57:40 <Ammler> just begin with IP-Masks 15:57:42 <Phazorx> and yet again i dont want to ban whole isp in most cases 15:57:59 <Phazorx> but i can find out with whois exact range dedicated to some area in case if that applies 15:58:06 <Phazorx> which makes targeting much mroe presize 15:58:17 <Phazorx> rdns will not help in this case 15:58:45 <TrueBrain> rdns still is more useful :) 15:58:53 <TrueBrain> as most ISPs are smart enough to put the area in the rdns 15:58:58 <TrueBrain> but okay, I say: make a patch :) 15:59:03 <Phazorx> well my point is cidr range is easier to do and will do the job 15:59:07 <TrueBrain> and no Ammler, I simply don't have the time to do it 16:02:42 *** Peakki [antti@cs78151004.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 16:02:56 <Ammler> I repeat me, but I never asked you to do it, just asked you, if there is a function in C++ where can already compare such things 16:03:22 <TrueBrain> oh, sorry, misread you 16:03:27 <TrueBrain> happens :p 16:03:47 <TrueBrain> for what Phazorx suggests, I wouldn't know a function, but I guess it isn't that hard 16:03:57 <TrueBrain> convert the IP to an int, and you can do some nice bitshifting 16:04:03 <Belugas> always when coming back from hiliday :) takes a while to get back on work :D 16:04:06 <TrueBrain> for what I suggest, you need regexp support to do it nicely 16:04:20 <TrueBrain> not default C++ either 16:05:05 <Ammler> hmm, maybe Phazorx will try a little bit with C? 16:05:08 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 16:05:31 <Phazorx> Ammler: as i suggested before - norroing some code for apache wil ldo the trick 16:05:40 <Phazorx> and last time i was doing c was about 10 years ago 16:05:53 <Ammler> yeah, good reason for a comming back 16:06:01 <TrueBrain> lol, using Apache to find this function (or any other for that matter) will take much longer than a good www.google.com search :) 16:06:03 <Phazorx> well at least to the level of acomplishing something worth having a name next to it :) 16:06:24 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i dont think i can word it good enough 16:06:33 <Phazorx> but any other utility that can read cidr mask will do 16:06:55 <Phazorx> it is as easy as parsing string from config differently and applying proper bitmask tho 16:07:17 <TrueBrain> as I said, convert to int, and apply bitmask ;) 16:07:23 <TrueBrain> (shifting) 16:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> <TrueBrain> convert the IP to an int, and you can do some nice bitshifting <- just & it with the subnet mask 16:07:39 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: you want shifting, to do comparing :) 16:07:49 <TrueBrain> the /29 means >> 3, and compare the 2 values 16:07:57 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: xor more like it 16:07:59 <TrueBrain> euh.. 16:07:59 <TrueBrain> doh 16:08:03 <TrueBrain> but okay 16:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, why xor? 16:08:34 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: becasue cidr works that way 16:08:40 <TrueBrain> no, what I said should work 16:08:58 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i meant you compare xored result to 0 16:09:10 <Phazorx> the shifting is ecatly as you described 16:09:22 <TrueBrain> yeah, I was confused by my own math 16:09:28 <TrueBrain> but okay 16:10:03 <TrueBrain> inet_addr(ban_ip) >> (32 - subnet) == inet_addr(client_ip): kick 16:10:09 <TrueBrain> euh 16:10:14 <TrueBrain> inet_addr(ban_ip) >> (32 - subnet) == inet_addr(client_ip) >> (32 - subnet): kick 16:10:46 <Phazorx> hmm 16:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not matter much, if you xor, shift, and compare to 0, or if you shift twice, and check for equality 16:10:56 <Ammler> and this patch should work also only on server side 16:10:57 <Phazorx> xoring is still required 16:11:12 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: why? 16:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> A xor B == 0 is equivalent to A == B 16:11:44 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: trying to word it properly hang on 16:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> what the compiler or processor does with these expressions is a whole different story 16:12:29 <Phazorx> i guess since you do it other way - it does not ened to be xored 16:12:35 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: and who cares, as long as it works :p 16:12:42 <Phazorx> you are trunking uneffective bits and comparing the res 16:12:57 <Phazorx> i was thinking of comparing base and xoring mask 16:12:59 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: which is what a subnetmask does, when banning ;) 16:13:07 <Phazorx> diff aproaches but same result 16:13:24 <TrueBrain> problem about xoring mask, is that you have the value 29 16:13:36 <TrueBrain> you need to make that into 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1000 16:13:51 <Phazorx> or <<29 instead of >>3 16:14:04 <Phazorx> your logic is fine tho 16:14:21 <Phazorx> mine was just doing reverse of what you had in mind 16:14:31 <TrueBrain> I just wonder how to make that bitmask from the number 29... 16:14:37 <TrueBrain> in an efficient way 16:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> -1 << 3? 16:14:49 <TrueBrain> hmm, good point 16:15:03 <Phazorx> -1 is less efficient than 0xffffff :) 16:15:08 <TrueBrain> ((uint32)-1) << 3 16:15:09 <TrueBrain> but yeah :) 16:15:17 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: (uint32)-1 == 0xFFFFFFFF 16:15:35 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: 0xffffffff is a constant :) 16:15:46 <TrueBrain> -1 too :) 16:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: it's totally a compiler issue, there is nothing about efficiency... 16:15:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: worse: it is machine issue :) 16:15:56 <TrueBrain> -1 == 0xFFFFFFFF 16:16:00 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: there was something about ansi c misrepresenting -1 long time ago 16:16:06 <TrueBrain> either in (int32) or (uint32) 16:16:09 <Phazorx> perhaps it does not apply to cpp though 16:16:20 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: ANSI C can't misrepresent anything in this matter 16:16:26 <TrueBrain> it is how machines are build these days :) 16:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it is the issue of the compiler to convert the representation (-1) to the same as (0xFFFFFFFF) 16:16:39 <TrueBrain> we use two-forgotname 16:16:48 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> two-complement 16:16:56 <TrueBrain> thank you 16:16:59 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: -1 would become longint if used in context with casting type on it 1st i mean 16:17:08 <Phazorx> without i meant 16:17:21 <TrueBrain> therefor you need the cast, yes ;) 16:17:28 <TrueBrain> but the asm should be the same 16:17:33 <TrueBrain> would be fun to check it out :) 16:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> your level of discussion is way too low for my taste :p 16:17:52 <TrueBrain> low, as in low-level? :p 16:17:56 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: well imagine a routine like if((unit) X == -1) { dostuff();} 16:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: the ambiguity is deliberate :p 16:18:44 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: that is a pretty faulty statement :) What does work: if (X == (uint)-1) 16:18:52 <TrueBrain> -1 doesn't have a real value if you don't put it in a cast ;) 16:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: the compiler should warn about that 16:19:05 <TrueBrain> (uint64)-1 != (uint32)-1 16:19:09 <Phazorx> anwyay, this should not apply these days since it has been know for long while 16:19:31 <TrueBrain> (but okay, (uint64)1 != (uint32)1 either :p 16:19:32 <TrueBrain> hehe 16:19:49 <TrueBrain> so that is a nice faulty statement :p 16:19:54 <TrueBrain> (what I wrote :p) 16:20:02 <Phazorx> well my point was e if((uint) X == 1) would have worked as desired 16:20:12 <Phazorx> whereas e if((uint) X == -1) would not 16:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> depends on what you desire 16:20:26 <TrueBrain> indeed :) 16:20:30 <Ammler> TrueBrain: depense on little or big endian 16:20:33 <TrueBrain> but as Eddi|zuHause2 said, the compiler should warn :) 16:20:39 <TrueBrain> Ammler: not really 16:20:43 <TrueBrain> -1 = 0xFF 16:20:47 <TrueBrain> in which ever amount of bytes 16:20:48 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: if x being the one in 1st case and -1 in second to procede with following statement 16:20:52 <TrueBrain> so in that case, it doesn't matter ;) 16:20:53 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:59 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 16:21:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:21:02 <TrueBrain> Ammler: for -2 you are right ;) 16:21:49 <Phazorx> if 0xff is -1 what would be 0xfe+1 ? 16:22:10 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: signed? -1 ;) 16:22:13 <Ammler> -2+1=-1 16:22:16 <TrueBrain> as 0xFE is -2, if a signed byte 16:22:34 <Phazorx> ahh well we got to signed already 16:22:39 <Phazorx> i missed that step 16:22:57 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: -1 is 0xFF in unsigned too, although that statement is kind of tricky to state :) 16:23:00 <Phazorx> still thinking of uint and int being word ratehr than byte :) 16:23:03 <TrueBrain> (as -1 is invalud in unsigned :p) 16:23:19 <TrueBrain> oh bla, who cares :p 16:23:46 <Ammler> so, who does make the patch for IP Masks now? 16:23:51 <Phazorx> well we'd really appriciate ip/cidr capability in future 16:24:42 <Ammler> !s/future/now/ 16:24:58 <Rubidium> Ammler: iptables 16:25:09 <TrueBrain> haha @ Rubidium :) 16:25:18 <Ammler> :) 16:25:30 <Phazorx> Rubidium: it narrows down to like chaing of 5 lines in the code now, 3 of which being comments 16:25:53 <Rubidium> Phazorx: I've heard that a lot 16:25:59 <Rubidium> it's "just" one line of code 16:26:04 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:26:17 <Phazorx> iptables provides nice functionality but that feature already developed in game, just need a bit of widening 16:26:21 <Rubidium> and finally the diff is 50 kB before they actually got it working 16:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> "there are only 3 commands needed to install gentoo" :p 16:26:25 <Phazorx> Rubidium: TrueBrain pretty much even stated that line 16:26:47 <Phazorx> just ened to put it in right place 16:26:50 <TrueBrain> if (sin.sin_addr.s_addr == inet_addr(_network_ban_list[i])) { 16:27:02 <TrueBrain> that is the only line needs changing 16:27:07 <TrueBrain> the tricky part is to allow the subnet mask 16:27:17 <Sacro> rawr 16:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think there is a little more needed to change the ban command 16:27:22 <Rubidium> the "tricky" part is reading the subnet mask 16:27:28 <Rubidium> the rest is simple 16:27:29 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is what I said ;) 16:27:36 <TrueBrain> strrchr ;) 16:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is what i meant ;) 16:27:43 <Phazorx> oh yeah... that isnt perl and RE i forgot :) 16:27:46 <TrueBrain> check for /, and it should be easy :) 16:28:04 <Ammler> we could begin with just one format 16:28:18 <Rubidium> yup, not we do IP/32 16:28:20 <Phazorx> Ammler: and end with just one as well :) 16:28:28 <Rubidium> and we should add IP/0 16:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then convert 192.168.0.* to 192.168.0.0/8 16:28:50 <Ammler> hmm, thats fine in future 16:29:04 <Phazorx> i dont think * thingy is really ended in case if you have cidr 16:29:25 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: many many many many many many many many <..> people don't understand how cidr works 16:29:32 <TrueBrain> ending up with bans on IP/0 16:29:40 <Ammler> Phazorx: not everyone can calculate the bitshift or how is that called? 16:29:55 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: many people dont know how to drive... yet they get a book, try and eventualy get a license 16:30:04 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: this is different 16:30:12 <TrueBrain> people do know how to do 192.168.0.* 16:30:17 <Phazorx> Ammler: this is go to whoispage for isp and copy/paste 16:30:23 <TrueBrain> like many people know how to drive a car, but a few try to drive motor 16:30:30 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: in most cases * will not so what you want 16:30:36 <Phazorx> and you end up banning too many or too few 16:30:40 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: yup 16:30:51 <TrueBrain> mask-banning in general has that effect 16:31:04 <Phazorx> proper mask banning has less/does not 16:31:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: 192.168.0.1* then doesn't work... 16:31:11 <TrueBrain> (if I screw up in a server, and get a /29 ban for example, my neighbour can't join either) 16:31:22 <Ammler> I would begin with 24 16:31:35 <TrueBrain> even a /30 puts my neighbour out of the server too 16:31:37 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: that's really the price for that 16:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: no, if you use that syntax, you can only ban /0, /8, /16 etc. 16:31:46 <Phazorx> i banned whole state because of one prick :) 16:31:48 <TrueBrain> as said, mask-banning in genral has a big downside ;) 16:32:08 <Phazorx> but having cidr mask it can be targeted more specificaly 16:32:12 <TrueBrain> yup 16:32:28 <Phazorx> and if people really like entering * in config - that cane be autoreplaced to /8 /16 or /24 16:32:49 <Ammler> but in future :) 16:32:49 <Phazorx> unless you want soemthing crazy like a.*.b.c 16:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i think that replacement is rather trivial 16:32:52 <Rubidium> Phazorx: then people *expect* 192.168.0.1*1 to work too 16:32:54 <Sacro> why not use subnet nasking 16:33:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: whould they? 16:33:05 <Sacro> 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0 16:33:10 <Phazorx> Rubidium: these people should stop doing RE in C :) 16:33:26 <Phazorx> Sacro: cidr is same 16:33:30 <Phazorx> just properly noted 16:33:54 <Rubidium> Sacro: technically that what you've written isn't correct 16:33:55 <Ammler> Sacro: thats 192.168.0.0/24, I guess 16:34:10 <Phazorx> and realy i'm talking about much lesser change for these who have the knowledge and can use it like tomorrow 16:34:24 <Phazorx> and you want to offere more features while complaining it is more than 5 lines of code 16:37:58 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/temp.patch 16:38:00 <TrueBrain> or something 16:38:06 <TrueBrain> hmm 16:38:09 <TrueBrain> not 100% correct 16:38:25 <Phazorx> thanks TrueBrain 16:38:30 <TrueBrain> reload 16:38:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-1-84.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:07 <TrueBrain> totally untested 16:39:09 <TrueBrain> even not compiled 16:39:31 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-144-6.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:40:39 <Ammler> Phazorx: do you test it? 16:41:19 <Phazorx> have no means atm 16:41:35 <Phazorx> will test later when i get back home 16:41:47 <Phazorx> but i hope by then it'll be in trunk already :) 16:42:21 <TrueBrain> I won't do it :) 16:42:25 <TrueBrain> I just wondered if it really took 5 lines :p 16:42:30 <Phazorx> oh cmon 16:42:32 <Phazorx> so close 16:42:49 <TrueBrain> testing is a bitch :p 16:42:50 <TrueBrain> no time :) 16:43:14 <Ammler> yeah, np, do you see a problem, if we only patch the server? 16:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> little boxes, on the hillside... 16:43:50 <TrueBrain> Ammler: my patch won't work 16:44:06 <Phazorx> Ammler: a modded working version of that - can be done server side only 16:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> what happens if the server bans itself? 16:45:47 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: nothing 16:46:04 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: care to elablorate on HOW server can ban itself 16:46:19 <Phazorx> like grew hands and type that command somewhere? 16:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> /ban your.ip? 16:46:32 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: and where that line would come from? 16:47:04 <TrueBrain> so, my patch given, knowing itoa should be atoi, who is going to finish my lovely patch and test it? 16:47:10 <TrueBrain> one of you knows C, right? :) 16:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm busy... 16:48:52 <Rubidium> lovely ain't it... everybody is busy enough to not care about subnet banning :) 16:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't run a server, nor do i play online, so it is definitely not my immediate problem :p 16:50:00 <Ammler> :( 16:50:36 <Ammler> is there a dev, who does also play OTTD? 16:50:50 <Sacro> nope 16:50:54 <Sacro> none of the devs play 16:51:12 <Ammler> The game for them is developing OTTD 16:51:15 <TrueBrain> I never did, why would I? 16:51:18 <glx> we play only to debug :) 16:51:24 <TrueBrain> I never even started the game 16:51:26 <TrueBrain> don't know how it looks like 16:51:36 <TrueBrain> my work is always theoretical 16:51:39 <TrueBrain> others do the testing 16:51:56 <Ammler> oh, I know, you played... 16:52:06 <TrueBrain> doh, busted 16:52:20 <Rubidium> Ammler: when? 16:52:32 <Ammler> beginning of coop 16:52:35 <Rubidium> you must be confusing TrueBrain with TrueLight or so 16:52:43 <Ammler> oh sry, yes 16:52:54 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is someone else 16:52:55 <TrueBrain> I think 16:55:49 <Ammler> we are planning a coopetition game on #openttdcoop, maybe devs would like to be a group against us? 16:56:17 <Ammler> oh, no, they have patched clients and will cheat all the time... :) 16:56:43 <TrueBrain> nah, we just have a special login-code 16:57:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11193 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix: be more compliant with the specifications of callback #2F (and undocumented side effects in TTDP in corner cases). 17:01:10 <Ammler> ok, whish you all a nice evening 17:01:58 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:40 <TrueBrain> have fun Ammler :) 17:11:24 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 17:11:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:12:28 <Wolf01> hello 17:12:33 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-144-6.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:49 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:13:42 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:14:36 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-164-161.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:16:24 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:33 *** goddamnit [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 17:20:10 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> <TrueBrain> yeah, that is someone else <- nothing better than a tiny bit of schitzophreny :p 17:20:35 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> makes for a great deal of excuses :p 17:21:34 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 17:23:15 *** dihedral|work [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:23:37 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-250-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:48 <dihedral> hello 17:24:23 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: CIA-1, De_Ghost, Wolf01 17:24:36 *** CIA-4 [cia@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 17:28:11 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-173-142.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:35:07 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-164-161.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:08 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 17:36:43 <skidd13> TTRS 3.02a makes OpenTTD look ugly. All text is gone and I see parts of bridges on the screen :( 17:38:51 *** orudge [~orudge@78.32.42.130] has quit [] 17:40:06 <Rubidium> skidd13: any idea since when? 17:41:38 <skidd13> nope 17:41:43 *** orudge [~orudge@78.32.42.130] has joined #openttd 17:41:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 17:42:34 <TrueBrain> welcome orudge 17:42:44 <orudge> Hello there 17:42:53 <orudge> although, I was always here ;) 17:42:56 <orudge> I just accidentally pressed apple-Q 17:43:01 <TrueBrain> doh :p 17:43:05 <dihedral> hello orudge 17:43:14 * orudge finally got his new PC working today 17:43:25 <orudge> so once I get things sorted out, I'll be able to compile OS/2 :p 17:44:45 * ProfFrink compiles OS/4 17:45:37 <ProfFrink> Hey! 17:45:43 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 17:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> OS/4... is that half a half an OS? 17:46:20 * Prof_Frink wonders when oftc dopped out of his keepnick config 17:46:33 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: No, a quarter. Duh. 17:48:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11194 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: industries with not all tiles custom slope checked (but at least one) would be build on wrongly sloped tiles. 17:58:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B752F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:59:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 18:04:03 *** dihedral is now known as dihedral|away 18:04:39 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:08:53 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B776FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:37 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 18:15:03 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-208-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:53 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-233-168.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 18:18:34 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-131-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:24:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:29:35 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:51 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-25-172.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:30:05 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 18:31:15 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:22 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 18:39:07 <orudge> Prof_Frink! oi! you! nutter! 18:40:42 <Prof_Frink> Y'what, eh? 18:41:08 <orudge> just thought I'd shout at people 18:41:11 <orudge> or, well, a person. 18:41:30 <Prof_Frink> Art thou globester? 18:41:56 <orudge> Well, no. 18:42:00 <orudge> But I just thought I'd do it anyway. 18:42:04 <orudge> This place was a bit quite, y'know. 18:42:07 <orudge> quiet 18:42:07 <orudge> even. 18:42:35 <Sacro> ofudge its an orudge 18:43:10 <orudge> it's you 18:43:15 <orudge> you appear to have been somewhat vanished over the past few days 18:43:22 <Sacro> nope, i'm here 18:43:31 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11195 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: creation chances for industries during gameplay and during map generation were swapped. 18:43:34 <orudge> no, on #tycoon, innit 18:43:48 <orudge> but ah well 18:43:56 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-122-230.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:44:03 <Sacro> yes, i have removed it from my bouncer's autojoin list 18:44:30 <Sacro> right, to the Hull-LUG! 18:47:46 <mattt_> Hull.. as in Hull, Quebec? 18:50:47 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-173-142.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:47 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 18:59:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:23:56 *** globester [~PP@131.227.231.159] has joined #openttd 19:23:58 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41662.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:23:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 19:24:03 <globester> jow 19:25:14 <globester> got ottd 0.5.3, latest nightly, after sh40 appearing in 1973 ottd suddenly says i have 65.345 kirbies :o 19:25:34 <globester> also i can't build the sh40 19:28:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:29:08 <Bjarni> ahh 19:29:11 <Bjarni> finally home :D 19:31:25 <globester> \o/ 19:32:56 *** Leviath [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 19:32:56 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:21 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-25-172.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:09 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-25-172.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:38:00 <Bjarni> well, my current task: finish assignment for tomorrow 19:43:28 <skidd13> good night 19:43:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A573C.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 19:48:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B776FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:51:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74C3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:56:30 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 20:00:42 *** Peakki [antti@cs78151004.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 20:03:43 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 20:03:43 *** Leviath [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:07 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-25-172.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:33 *** Rafagd [~Rafagd@BHE200150061031.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has joined #openttd 20:15:32 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:20:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: glx * r11196 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11191): _cur_stage was incorrect for GLS_ACTIVATION stage 20:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> since when do we have CIA-4? 20:22:13 *** KouDy_ [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 20:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i just wondered that he has a strange colour today 20:22:42 <SmatZ> [19:24:21] <-- CIA-1 has left this server (resistance.oftc.net charm.oftc.net). 20:22:42 <SmatZ> [19:24:36] --> CIA-4 has joined this channel (cia@208.69.182.149). 20:25:32 *** dihedral|away is now known as dihedral 20:26:03 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:36 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D] 20:31:26 *** boekabart [~bdb@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 20:31:58 *** boekabart [~bdb@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:34:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74C3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:40:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:43:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:12 <mcbane> heh glx was 3 seconds faster with that comment =P 20:44:58 <glx> hehe 20:46:56 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 20:47:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7689A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:40 *** Leviath [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has joined #openttd 20:48:40 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:16 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 20:57:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7689A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:23 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498E53B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:23 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498FA73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:01:42 <Bjarni> quit timing out 21:01:53 <Bjarni> you are interrupting all the important stuff going on in here :P 21:02:13 <Amixwoktest> yeah 21:02:26 <globester> i've got a question though 21:02:31 <Amixwoktest> :=) 21:02:44 <globester> got ottd 0.5.3, latest nightly, after sh40 appearing in 1973 ottd suddenly says i have 65.345 kirbies 21:03:03 <Bjarni> 0.5.3 or nightly? 21:03:04 <globester> loaded the autosave but now the sh40 doesn't appear at all heh 21:03:09 <globester> nightly 21:03:22 <Amixwoktest> latest one? 21:03:29 <globester> r11181 21:03:43 <Rubidium> that is NOT the latest one... 21:03:51 <Bjarni> sounds very much like you substracted more kirbies than you actually sold 21:03:51 <globester> :o 21:04:04 <globester> well, i didn't have any kirbies to start with heh 21:04:12 <Bjarni> o_O 21:04:27 <globester> i think it happened right after sh40's appearing 21:04:37 <globester> when i reloaded it says i have 0 :/ 21:04:42 <Bjarni> try to reproduce this 21:04:51 <globester> yeah, i was trying it 21:04:58 <Bjarni> the number of engines is not saved, but counted on load 21:05:12 <globester> after the reload the sh40 didn't appear at all though 21:05:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:27 <mcbane> bjarni that buf is somewhere in the bugtracker 21:06:41 <mcbane> buf = bug 21:09:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E1F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D449.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:56 <fjb> Moin 21:18:07 * Hendikins plays a game of "how much coal can you get in a 20x20 station catchment area?" 21:18:38 <mcbane> sers 21:18:48 <fjb> Hendikins, the king of coal. :-) 21:19:01 <Ammler> I liked to test the "forbidden" basetunnels on openttd, how can I simulate unifiedmaglev=1? 21:19:07 <Hendikins> fjb: I'm just adding more and more mines to try and saturate my route. 21:19:10 <Rafagd> (x coal = money hax =\ x) 147 21:19:41 <fjb> What are "forbidden" basetunnels? 21:19:43 * Hendikins is only actually using 20x3 for trains, and has scattered bits of detached station to cover the catchment area 21:20:14 <Ammler> fjb: they are from eis_os and mustn't be used on OTTD. 21:20:29 <fjb> Do you play in desert? I never have anough space between the mountains. 21:21:00 <fjb> And what is eis_os? 21:21:34 <mcbane> eis_os is a TTD dev 21:22:03 <Ammler> he made some cool stuff for TTDPatch and grfcrawler 21:22:16 <fjb> Thank you. 21:23:18 <fjb> I have a question about tram stops. Do the have to be as least as long as the tram? 21:23:40 <glx> no 21:23:43 <dihedral> do you guys consider "teleports" a bug? 21:23:59 <fjb> I guess Einstein would... 21:24:02 <Rubidium> Ammler: base tunnels *are* explicitly disallowed (by the NewGRF) for OpenTTD. 21:24:02 <Bjarni> <fjb> And what is eis_os? <-- it's "who", not "what".... he is a person, not an item :P 21:24:02 <dihedral> i.e. using station spread to make rv's more profitable? 21:24:09 <Rafagd> tram ins not always 1 "car"? 21:24:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:59 *** Mark is now known as Mark|asleep 21:25:05 <Ammler> Rubidium: you mean, its coded to not support OTTD, wow. 21:25:34 <Wolf01|AWAY> 'night 21:25:36 <Rubidium> exactly 21:25:38 <dihedral> nicht 21:25:39 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:25:44 <dihedral> *night 21:25:56 <fjb> Don't know how articulatet road vehicels work. Thought they get a penalty when loading and unloading when they are longer as the stop. Thought it would be same as when a train is longer then the railway station. 21:26:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77ED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:58 *** Leviath [LeviathNL@145.94.37.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:38 <Bjarni> looks like Vadim wants to worship me as a god... 21:34:47 <Bjarni> do I appear that all mighty to you? 21:35:33 <fjb> WhO? 21:35:44 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: How's your thunderbolt-weilding? 21:36:07 <Bjarni> better than you would expect 21:36:18 <Bjarni> fjb: Vadim 21:36:20 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:21 <Bjarni> I just told you :P 21:37:10 <Bjarni> will you guys worship me as well? 21:37:27 <fjb> Bjarni: I meant, who appears mighty? :-) 21:37:40 <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni Yeah, by kicking you over and over 21:37:41 *** fjb was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [me] 21:37:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D449.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:49 <TrueBrain> hmm 21:38:00 <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni Yeah, by kicking you over and over 21:38:00 *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Yeah, by kicking you over and over] 21:38:00 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41662.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:38:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:38:02 <Bjarni> haha 21:38:04 <TrueBrain> Ah, there it is :) 21:38:13 <fjb> :-P 21:38:25 <Bjarni> even DorpsGek is aware of my new status 21:38:29 <Bjarni> and then again, maybe not 21:39:09 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: don't interrupt me. I'm making a survey based on feedback I got today 21:39:22 <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni Yeah, by kicking you over and over 21:39:22 *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Yeah, by kicking you over and over] 21:39:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41662.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:39:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:39:32 <Bjarni> I want to know if there are similar naive people in here 21:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 21:40:54 <Bjarni> cool 21:41:03 <Bjarni> I could be the start of a new religion 21:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think you spoiled your relationship with Sacro already 21:41:12 <Bjarni> oh 21:41:13 * Prof_Frink points Bjarni at the 'o' section of the nicklist 21:42:22 <fjb> Starting a new religion is useless, but maybe you could get rich that way. Hm, lets start a new religion. 21:42:47 <Bjarni> well 21:42:59 <Bjarni> I call it opportunity 21:43:18 <Bjarni> I got worshippers even before I realised that I could start a religion 21:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the question is, if you can get a couple of RICH worshippers 21:45:33 <Bjarni> or convince people that they should sell all their organs and donate the money 21:45:48 <fjb> I you can't, get lots of poor worshippers and tell them to give you they have. :-) 21:46:00 <fjb> If 21:47:18 <Bjarni> actually just as long as people worship me, I can get reduced taxes :D 21:47:36 <Prof_Frink> Just smite the taxman. 21:48:01 * Sacro is highlighted 21:48:06 <fjb> You still pay taxes? :-) 21:48:29 <Bjarni> right now? 21:48:31 <Bjarni> no 21:48:45 <Bjarni> paying income tax would need an income :s 21:48:46 <Sacro> taxies? 21:49:04 <fjb> How can I park a concorde in front of my head qarter? 21:49:05 <Prof_Frink> Taxi for Sacro 21:49:22 <fjb> No taxis, use the bike. 21:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i really do not understand why this 3D thing is not working :( 21:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> all driver output looks ok 21:54:13 <Sacro> What gets longer when pulled, fits between breasts, inserts neatly in a hole, and works best when jerked? 21:54:13 <Sacro> A Seatbelt! 21:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what does "jerked" mean in that context? 21:56:48 <Bjarni> I think it's when you pull it so fast that it locks 21:58:57 *** svippery [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:58:57 *** svippy [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:28 *** KouDy_ [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 22:03:49 *** gynterk [~gynter@88-196-200-147-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 22:04:38 <gynterk> hey, is there any other way to use 'non-stop' exept with 'TTDPatch comatible nonstop handling'? 22:04:49 <gynterk> Since server admins don't want to enable it... 22:06:04 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h241n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:39 <Sacro> yes, you can use it without it 22:06:44 <Sacro> just clicky on the button 22:07:32 <gynterk> it doesn't work for me 22:07:36 <gynterk> still stops in station 22:07:45 <Bjarni> yeah 22:07:55 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h200n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 22:07:58 <Bjarni> then it will just head for that station and not stop at any stations on the way 22:08:04 <Bjarni> you can use a waypoint instead 22:08:12 <Bjarni> but they are limited to one tile only 22:08:24 <Bjarni> trains never stops at waypoints 22:08:25 <gynterk> yes 22:08:32 <dihedral> g'night ladies :-) 22:08:58 <gynterk> i wouldn't use non-stop if waypoints wouldn't be limited to one tile ;) 22:09:13 <gynterk> good night dihedral 22:09:54 <Bjarni> waypoints wouldn't be limited to one tile if ludde had understood what they were needed for when he coded them :/ 22:10:09 <Sacro> Bjarni: you have the commit rights 22:10:11 <Sacro> EDIT IT 22:10:24 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-250-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]] 22:10:25 <Bjarni> expanding them to more than one tile is the same as starting over 22:10:46 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-33-119.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:10:51 <gynterk> yes, but this would be excellent feature... 22:11:25 <Prof_Frink> Well, if you're starting over, you could use waypoints as an equivalent to ttdpatch's signalling restrictions 22:13:26 <fjb> I think they are different. Way points are one thing, something like signal restrictions are the other. I thought about a kind of penalty marker that you could set on any pice of track. 22:15:50 <fjb> The penalty marker could share same same tile with a signal. 22:16:00 <gynterk> ah and btw, does anyone know a grf what changes signal system in intersections that it's possible to have more than 1 train there, if tracks would set that there would be no way those trains will crash 22:17:08 <Prof_Frink> fjb: And why shouldn't a waypoint? 22:17:12 <fjb> Tekki is working on a new cool signal system. At least I hope he is still working on it. 22:17:42 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-122-230.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:01 <SmatZ> there was some NAND signal system - very nice to make complex logic functions :) 22:19:12 <Sacro> SmatZ: NOR is more fun 22:19:20 <SmatZ> :-D 22:19:20 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:19:24 <Sacro> but quite useless for building a station 22:19:24 <fjb> A way point is a way to tell a train go there. It is something else then setting penalties for the pathfinder. Its mor like a negative penalty. Kind of a reward for the pathfinder. 22:19:31 <Sacro> caused me way too many accidents 22:20:50 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] 22:20:56 <fjb> We really need the thing that Tekki talked about. It's like the real signal systems work. And they work that way because there is no better way. 22:23:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:58 <Greyscale> Whats happening here then? 22:24:41 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 22:24:45 <Sacro> we are about to have our weekly sacrifice 22:24:52 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-33-119.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:55 <Sacro> just need a n00b 22:25:02 <a1270> i suggest Greyscale 22:25:16 <gynterk> is 10 clients and 8 companies max for a server? 22:25:16 * Bjarni nominates a1270 22:25:17 <Greyscale> Sup. 22:25:28 <Greyscale> I nominate a1270 too, because I can kick his ass. 22:25:44 <Greyscale> that reminds me to check my company 22:25:58 <a1270> i'm sort of kicking your ass. 22:26:19 <gynterk> well I don't know who a1270 is, but i'll nominate a1270 22:26:29 * Sacro tallies the votes 22:26:42 <Sacro> anyone else want to cast one? 22:27:05 <globester> i vote CIA-4 22:27:07 <Greyscale> a1270, your compile of our version of OTTD is still broken 22:27:10 <fjb> How can I look more closely at a tramtrack in a city? Even the transparent buildings make the streets that dark that I don'nt see why my trams just stop at a bend and try to drive straight ahead into the next building. 22:27:14 <a1270> the gods don't like me. they will give you bad crops next year. 22:27:23 <globester> other graphic files fjb? 22:27:43 <Greyscale> Game needs civilian traffic 22:27:50 <Greyscale> like, in large citys, cars that drive about 22:27:55 <fjb> globester: What di you mean? 22:27:55 <Greyscale> and clog the road 22:27:56 <gynterk> how do you build trams ? 22:28:02 <a1270> Greyscale, i just un7zip'd it and i can connect. 22:28:06 <Greyscale> Oo 22:28:07 <gynterk> i wanna drive trams to buildings too 22:28:07 <Greyscale> wierd 22:28:23 *** FlowaPowa [~FlowaPowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 22:28:24 <Greyscale> a1270, relink? 22:28:34 <globester> well if you change the graphics to ones with more contrast it might be easier to see them 22:28:35 <fjb> Trams are in the nightly build. 22:28:58 <gynterk> ah ok 22:29:07 <fjb> Hm, but I don't havfe other graphics at hand. 22:31:11 <fjb> I'm trying th use a magnifier now. 22:32:24 <globester> heh 22:32:40 <gynterk> hmm interesting 22:32:48 <gynterk> i nearly flooded all of my railways 22:32:56 <fjb> Where is the next tram? It's never there when you need one. 22:35:44 <fjb> Hey, it works now. ut is there a way to turn around a stuck tram? I just had to reload an autosave from bevore it got stuck. :-( 22:43:01 <goddamnit> no 22:43:06 <goddamnit> u have to lay track infront 22:43:23 <fjb> I would like to have a transrapid just go through the middle of the city. 22:43:29 <goddamnit> u can 22:43:35 <goddamnit> jsut take alot of planning 22:43:46 <goddamnit> but why the middle? 22:44:01 <fjb> But what do you do if you can't put a track in front of the tram? 22:44:07 <Amixwoktest> you have to be careful in the cities 22:44:09 <Amixwoktest> hehe 22:44:09 <goddamnit> GG NO RE 22:44:15 <Amixwoktest> dont build dead ends there 22:44:26 <fjb> I have an aiport in the middle of that city. 22:44:27 <Amixwoktest> especially in cities that hates you 22:45:55 *** orudge [~orudge@78.32.42.130] has quit [Quit: changing pc] 22:45:59 <fjb> Amixwoktest; there should have been no dead end. It took me three times till there was really a bend. The tracks did cross instead of bend. 22:46:00 <gynterk> buy them 22:46:02 <gynterk> and plant trees 22:46:06 *** orudge [orudge@78.32.42.132] has joined #openttd 22:46:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 22:46:31 <gynterk> hmm it isn't possible to demolish tram tracks ? 22:46:50 <Amixwoktest> fjb: the tram construction works like road construction 22:46:55 <Amixwoktest> so i guess thats the thing 22:47:07 <fjb> Not much space left to build trees. And the city still likes me. And I like that city. I hate to destroy big buildings. 22:48:31 <fjb> Amixwoktest: I know. The problem was, that one track was kind of pointing into the next building instead of joining the other track to build a bend. 22:48:46 <Amixwoktest> mhm 22:48:51 <Amixwoktest> same happened to me 22:49:58 <fjb> And it was in the middle of a big city, so just a really dark corner with transparent buildings. I had to use a sreen magnifier to find out what happened. 22:50:05 <Amixwoktest> fjb: thats why i build http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Brondingtown.png 22:50:14 <Amixwoktest> build the tram in the middle 22:50:24 <Amixwoktest> so that town builds arround it later on 22:52:39 <fjb> Once there was a small town. Then came a small airport. Then came the railway. Then the town grew. Now the airport is way too small. I build a bigger airport next to the town, but now I have to join the two airports somehow. 22:53:34 <fjb> But it's really fun to see an Airbus descend in the middle of a big city. :-) 22:54:48 <fjb> I wouldn't try it with my concorde... 22:58:17 *** huma [~huma@89.19.167.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:25 <Amixwoktest> hehe 23:01:38 *** huma [~huma@89.19.167.191] has joined #openttd 23:02:16 <globester> i've got a terminus line, 1 track station but it's bringing in 150k a year atm because it's right in the middle of the city 23:02:28 <globester> can't change it anymore unless i destroy a big part of the city heh 23:03:11 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.71.226] has joined #openttd 23:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2014.%20Mar%201926.png <- my tram 23:03:31 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41662.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:33 <gynterk> is it possible to see chat history/log ? 23:03:49 <fjb> Soma as my airport. I enhanced it to a commuter airport. Bur I can't make it bidgger. That's why I thought about the Transrapid. 23:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%206.%20Jan%201924.png <- earlier version 23:04:37 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.] 23:05:10 <fjb> Nice place for a station. 23:05:34 <gynterk> anyone ? 23:05:40 <gynterk> chatlog, somewhere ? 23:05:58 <SmatZ> !log 23:06:01 <SmatZ> hmm 23:06:04 <SpComb> Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) 23:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> !logs 23:06:21 <gynterk> nono 23:06:25 <gynterk> i mean in-game :D 23:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the console has some kind of log 23:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but it probably does not go very far 23:06:50 <gynterk> ah 23:06:51 <gynterk> thanks 23:06:56 <gynterk> didn't know there was console 23:07:04 <gynterk> is* 23:08:25 *** globester [~PP@131.227.231.159] has quit [] 23:09:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png <- this is a much nicer station ;) 23:10:00 *** nickname [~ident@ip70-176-19-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:10:10 <nickname> my setting is set to US English, but it says tonnes instead of tons 23:10:13 <nickname> is there something wrong? 23:10:19 <Brianetta> no 23:10:35 <Brianetta> A ton is imperial, a tonne metric 23:10:40 <Brianetta> Nothing to do with country 23:10:47 <nickname> mmm 23:10:52 <nickname> but i've never heard tonne 23:11:02 <Brianetta> It's 1000kg 23:11:11 <nickname> weird 23:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> nickname: just also change to imperial settings 23:11:26 <Brianetta> Not as weird as pounds etc 23:11:44 <nickname> Eddi|zuHause: it is set to imperial 23:11:46 <ln-> did you ever hear of kg? 23:11:48 <ln-> d 23:11:52 <ln-> -d 23:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then you are screwed :p 23:12:02 <nickname> that just seems to effect mph/kph 23:12:12 <nickname> yes i've heard of kg 23:12:17 *** David_McMahon [~fake@dsl-fixed-77-44-48-144.interdsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:21 <Brianetta> Does it use HP or KW for power? 23:12:47 <nickname> looks like imperial/metric uses hp and SI uses KW 23:13:10 <nickname> interseting... if it put it on SI then it says 25,000 kg instead of tonnes 23:13:29 <Brianetta> That's because a tonne isn't an SI unit 23:13:29 <Brianetta> The kilogramme is 23:13:59 <gynterk> i like si... 23:14:12 <nickname> but if tonne is metric and ton is imperial, why doesnt it say ton when i set to imperial 23:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i just don't like giving speeds in m/s 23:14:21 <Brianetta> nickname: File that as a bug 23:14:35 <Brianetta> It should give power in KW in metric mode, too 23:14:35 <nickname> ah 23:14:36 <nickname> ok 23:14:43 <gynterk> Eddi|zuHause: i can calculate fast :P 23:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> gynterk: i can'T 23:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have studied too much maths for that :p 23:15:23 <gynterk> :D 23:15:27 <ln-> Brianetta: kW 23:15:36 <Brianetta> ln-: You knew what I meant 23:16:45 <ln-> Brianetta: you can pro gue wha i mea if i onl wri 3 fir let, but is tha goo the? 23:17:01 <Brianetta> you what? 23:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: that does not work well in german :p 23:17:35 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: tat? sch. 23:18:33 * glx understood what ln- said :) 23:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> vor has du pro mit zus wör. 23:19:01 <glx> but I needed to read it at least 3 times 23:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ans wer deu wör gru wes lÀn als eng wör 23:20:01 <Brianetta> Helen has enrolled on a German beginners course. 23:20:10 <ln-> who is Hel? 23:20:13 <Brianetta> We're planning to go to Leipzig for Wave next year. 23:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Leipzig is right around the corner from here 23:20:53 <Brianetta> Cool. Where is ,here'? 23:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i live near Halle (Saale) 23:21:41 <fjb> I have been in Halle last winter. 23:22:57 <Brianetta> You have a mini version of the cathedral in Köln (: 23:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that is two churches who merged 23:23:34 <Brianetta> Physically? 23:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> basically they removed the second church, except from the towers, and then extended the other one to those towers 23:24:33 <Brianetta> wow 23:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it has 4 towers 23:24:59 <Brianetta> and a cathedral, two castles... 23:25:04 <Brianetta> That place rocks 23:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> together with the "red tower" in the middle of the market place, it creates the characteristic "5 towers" of halle 23:25:32 <Phazorx> imperial should also have barrels insetad of liters for liquids 23:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> also, halle is the birthplace of Georg Friedrich HÀndel 23:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> famous composer 23:26:37 <Brianetta> Fast composer 23:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> most famous pieces are the fireworks music, the water music, and the messiah 23:27:27 <Brianetta> although he wrote that in London 23:27:40 <Brianetta> he did the whole work in about a fortnight 23:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, he worked there most of the time 23:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there are "HÀndelfestspiele" every year 23:29:08 <Brianetta> ugh 23:29:12 <Brianetta> I never liked him that much 23:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to ;) 23:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> we have other stuff, too 23:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> like a beatles museum 23:29:45 <Brianetta> Shopping till 11! 23:30:05 <Brianetta> That's on Friday 23:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, btw. the church with the 4 towers is not the cathedral 23:30:22 <Brianetta> I know 23:30:26 <Brianetta> the cathedral has no towers 23:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that is correct ;) 23:31:02 <Brianetta> http://www.halle.de/index.asp?MenuID=1164 23:31:10 <Brianetta> live webcam of the Marktplatz 23:31:25 <Brianetta> The Red Tower is hidden in a box )-: 23:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they are working on it right now 23:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i live about 15km in the direction of that camera 23:34:08 <gynterk> is it allowed that Owen's TTS is provading links to download TTD data ? 23:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> are you complaining? 23:34:46 <orudge> well 23:34:52 <orudge> it's not strictly speaking legal, no. 23:35:01 <orudge> but effectively, the powers that be don't seem to care 23:35:10 <orudge> and I was fed up of receiving e-mails asking where to download TTD :P 23:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc i got mine from ttdlxhq 23:37:56 <ln-> i bought a copy of TTD through amazon.co.uk recently. 23:37:57 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-195-239.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:38:41 <fjb> They still sell it? 23:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i bought TT when it came out 23:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and the world editor later 23:39:38 <fjb> I didn't know about TT or TTD till a few days ago. 23:40:31 <gynterk> .. 23:40:37 <gynterk> have played it since kid 23:40:52 <Brianetta> It hasn't been around since I was a kid )-: 23:41:08 <Brianetta> I was all adultified and growed up when it came out 23:41:29 <gynterk> who holds copyright over TT(D) ? 23:41:33 <ln-> i first found TT on a pirate CD bought from Tallinn. 23:41:35 <Brianetta> Nobody is certain 23:41:58 <Brianetta> If there was any certainty, there would be fewer problems getting the legalities sorted out 23:42:06 <fjb> Atari holds the copyright. 23:42:10 <gynterk> ln-: From Kadaka market :D ? 23:42:33 <ln-> gynterk: mustamÀe 23:42:39 <orudge> do they, though, fjb, or do they just hold the marketing rights? The About window claims Chris Sawyer owns the copyright... 23:42:50 *** Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-39-100.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:51 <gynterk> ah its like it was with Build engine 23:45:14 <fjb> Did Chris Sawyer say anything about OpenTTD yet? 23:45:30 <ln-> indirectly 23:45:41 <fjb> What did he say? 23:47:58 <Brianetta> Well, he's not going to update our about boxes if he sells his copyright 23:48:40 <orudge> We've had these discussions many times before, fjb ;) We should archive them somewhere, perhaps 23:48:44 <orudge> apart from in the !logs 23:48:45 <orudge> but anyway 23:48:50 <orudge> Chris Sawyer hasn't said anything as such 23:48:59 <orudge> but somebody close to him says he apparently isn't much of an OpenTTD fan 23:49:27 <glx> nor a TTDP fan 23:49:35 <orudge> Indeed not 23:50:00 <gynterk> does he even like the original game? 23:50:46 <fjb> I guess he lieks it. He wrote it. :-) 23:50:46 <ln-> sure 23:51:30 <orudge> He doesn't like people changing his "vision" 23:51:41 <orudge> TTD was meant to be the way it was meant to be, warts and all, he says 23:52:07 <orudge> practically speaking though, there's not that much he can do about TTDPatch, which is technically legal, and OpenTTD, which, well, is debatable 23:52:29 <orudge> it's not really worth his time or trouble to mount legal action 23:52:36 <orudge> he's currently in the middle of legal action against Atari anyway 23:53:06 <glx> why? 23:53:29 <fjb> It would be a big step if OpenTTD didn't need the original files anymore. 23:53:46 <Belugas> we might one day 23:53:49 <orudge> why is he suing Atari, glx? 23:53:51 <orudge> you mean? 23:53:54 <glx> yes 23:54:17 <orudge> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,39236481,00.htm 23:54:33 <orudge> http://legalit.itproportal.com/?p=659 too 23:54:37 <ln-> he's scottish? 23:54:40 <fjb> OpenTTD goes far beyond of what TTD does. And it looks like there is not that much of the reverse engeneered code anymore. 23:54:52 <Brianetta> fjb: That doesn't matter a jot. 23:54:57 <Brianetta> It's a derrived work. 23:55:18 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7802.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 23:55:20 <Brianetta> Each revision is a derivative of the one before, right back to a decompilation event. 23:55:22 <orudge> ln-: Yes 23:55:30 <orudge> He lives about an hour away from where I am right now 23:55:31 <Belugas> and there are a lot of lines untouched from initial release, be sure of that 23:55:41 <orudge> I could pop over and offer him a drink ;) 23:55:49 <ln-> you should do that 23:56:14 <ln-> hmmm, being scottish explains the buildings from glasgow. 23:56:45 *** nickname [~ident@ip70-176-19-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 23:56:56 <Phazorx> orudge: you should do that 23:57:19 <Phazorx> and i tihnk the fact that openttd existance prolongs life of his project - he should be happy about 23:57:27 <gynterk> yeah 23:57:38 <gynterk> and convince him to open-source all TTD data 23:57:45 <orudge> Haha, not going to happen, alas 23:57:53 <orudge> Chris has his own way of doing things, it seems 23:57:54 <orudge> and now 23:57:55 <orudge> I'm off to bed 23:58:01 <Brianetta> (boing) 23:58:03 <gynterk> ok 23:58:09 <gynterk> I'm off to bed too 23:58:10 <gynterk> night 23:58:12 <Belugas> night orudge 23:58:18 <ln-> knight orudge 23:58:38 <orudge> Night knight gnight fight! 23:58:39 <orudge> etc 23:59:07 <ln-> but seriously, it's not a good idea to try to "convince" someone earning a living from games to open-source them