Log for #openttd on 9th October 2007:
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02:57:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11232 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10495): industry tile override works like house override, so handle it in the same way
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03:03:51  <fjb> hi
03:04:08  <fjb> Anybody still awake?
03:04:48  <glx> I am but not for a long time ;)
03:05:27  <fjb> I should be sleeping. But I got some problems with the new newindustries.
03:05:50  <DaleStan> It generally works better to just ask the real question. Then you don't have to deal with the not-an-answer to your not-a-questions.
03:06:29  <fjb> Be patient, my english is not that fast at this time.
03:06:47  <fjb> I tried them out with Georges ECS-Sets.
03:07:20  <fjb> I discovered that there are at most 23 indutries possible.
03:09:07  <fjb> Which that are depend on the sequence the ECS vectors are loaded.
03:10:05  <fjb> Eg: if the agriculture vector is loaded after the wood vector, then there are no woods in the game.
03:13:13  <fjb> The problem occurs with the night builds 11208 and 11226.
03:13:35  <fjb> The ECS vectors are the latest GRFs from Georges site.
03:13:51  <fjb> Is this a known restriction?
03:14:05  <glx> did you check in ttdpatch?
03:14:24  <fjb> Sorry, no Wndows here.
03:14:29  <fjb> Windows
03:14:36  <DaleStan> So? Patch works in wine too.
03:14:47  <DaleStan> In fact, Patchman has no Windows either.
03:15:48  <fjb> Ok, then I have to install wine tomorrow.
03:23:14  <glx> I just compared using same grfs in same order
03:23:31  <glx> I have 33 industries in ttdp and 32 in ottd
03:24:36  <fjb> Oh, what is your order? I only got 23.
03:24:53  <glx> ordered by grfid
03:25:04  <glx> and I am in scenario editor
03:30:49  <fjb> Thank you. Now I'm getting 32 too. Never looked at that id.
03:31:11  <fjb> I also tryed it in the scenery editor.
03:31:11  <glx> but there's still a missing one :)
03:31:19  <fjb> Which one is that?
03:31:25  <glx> tourist center
03:32:00  <glx> and some industries don't accept/produce the same in ttdp and ottd
03:32:30  <glx> more bugs to fix ;)
03:32:48  <fjb> But at least it is mostly working.
03:33:02  <fjb> Belugas did a great job.
03:33:35  * glx needs to sleep :)
03:33:38  <glx> good night
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03:34:01  <fjb> Does a log of this conversation exist? Or do we have to fill in a bug report?
03:34:28  <fjb> Anyway, I have to sleep, too.
03:38:10  <fjb> good night
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08:50:34  <dihedral> morning ladies :-)
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09:10:24  <TrueBrain> I refuse to call the rest of the people in this channel a lady! :p
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09:24:03  <dihedral> TrueBrain: the "rest"? that means that you would call at least one person a lady, and seeing as this person remains unmentioned, i somewhat sounds as if you were addressing yourself :-)
09:24:18  <dihedral> *it
09:27:28  <TrueBrain> I was :p
09:27:38  <TrueBrain> I call myself a lady many times a day
09:27:55  <TrueBrain> but sadly for you guys, it has little to do with my gender
09:28:18  <boekabart> TrueBrain: it's the fact that you like men?
09:28:20  <boekabart> :)
09:28:24  <TrueBrain> nah
09:28:40  <boekabart> the way you walk?
09:28:43  <boekabart> the way you talk?
09:28:50  <TrueBrain> nope
09:28:51  <TrueBrain> nope
09:29:08  <TrueBrain> but I like how you think :p
09:42:30  <Ailure> wtf
09:42:33  <Ailure> I must been drunk
09:42:42  <Ailure> Sometimes I attach a brake van, or caboose at the end of a train
09:42:59  <Ailure> ....seems like I attached a passenger train instead of a break van during a late night of openTTD as one of my trains have that
09:43:20  <boekabart> Ailure: simple misclick
09:43:40  <Ailure> without noticing?
09:43:49  <Ailure> well ok it's a covered carriage truck actually
09:44:00  <Ailure> but I didn't notice it until a few days after, after unpausing the damn game
09:44:01  <Ailure> xD
09:44:10  <Ailure> I sometimes have openTTD on all the time
09:44:21  <Ailure> and just unpause and pause it whenever I feel like playing
09:48:44  <Tefad> i've done that before
09:48:59  <Tefad> one time i started the scenario editor and forgot
09:49:07  <Tefad> came back to OMG TREES
09:51:03  <Ailure> horny little buggers they are
09:51:04  <Ailure> the trees
09:51:13  <Ailure> even if you start with a empty map
09:51:16  <Tefad> yup.
09:51:19  <Ailure> by 2050, the whole map is covered by them
09:51:26  <Ailure> I don't recall it being that crazy in TTO oO
09:51:40  <Tefad> improved tree algorithms.
09:52:00  <Ailure> could be toned down a bit though
09:52:21  <Tefad> all i know is that it makes me piss off towns easier in late game
09:52:31  <boekabart> isn't there this new industry that chops down trees in a circle/square around it?
09:52:49  <Ailure> thinking about the tropic sawmill?
09:52:50  <Ailure> :P
09:53:08  <Ailure> The temperate sawmill had a funny bug once though
09:53:18  <Ailure> where it acted like a tropical sawmill
09:53:36  <Ailure> my friends thought it was a new feature :)
09:53:39  <Tefad> hah
09:57:15  <Ailure> heh
09:57:24  <Ailure> funny how they work diffrently
09:58:12  <Ailure> then I guess the temperate forest "industry" is supposed to be a tree plantation
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10:43:43  <fjb> hi
10:45:47  <TrueBrain> hi
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10:52:54  <fjb> Strage things happen with the new newindustries...
10:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm sure you can be less specific than that...
10:54:09  <fjb> I try. :-)
10:54:36  <fjb> I tried them with Georges ECS vector GRFs.
10:55:34  <fjb> The number of Industries you get depends on the sequence in wich the GRFs get loaded.
10:55:40  <Tefad> vector grf?
10:55:50  <Tefad> oh.
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10:56:09  <fjb>
10:56:21  <fjb> My english is not that great, sorry.
10:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> !openttd commit 11191
10:57:05  <_42_> Commit by glx :: r11191 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-01 18:59:25 UTC)
10:57:07  <_42_> -Fix [FS#1227]: GLS_ACTIVATION stage must be done immediatly after GLS_RESERVE stage, before the GLS_RESERVE stage for the next newgrf.
10:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> that commit also caused grf order problems for me
10:58:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had to turn around alpine grf and dbsetxl, else i get wrong graphics for refit options
10:58:56  <fjb> glx was here last night and I told him about my problems with the sequence of the ECS GRFs.
10:59:56  <fjb> The things that get produced ba an industry also depend on the loadings sequence of the GRFs.
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11:17:50  <SpComb> <-- mm...
11:18:06  <SpComb> load risen a bit
11:18:54  <SpComb> although the way I understand it, openttd doesn't use any CPU when paused?
11:19:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> smells like a dual core processor
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11:19:43  <Tefad> SpComb: i think it uses very little if any.
11:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it has to occasionally check if you unpaused it
11:20:39  <fjb> 41478 frank         3  20    0 34880K 27228K kserel   3:51  0.00% openttd
11:20:40  <SpComb>   no, it smells like a rather warm single-core processor
11:21:07  <fjb> It uses no visible cpu load when it is pasused.
11:21:15  <SpComb> then pausing them game when there aren't any clients would be a solution
11:21:16  <fjb> paused
11:21:28  <SpComb> or would it be better to have some other kind of pause/unpause logic??
11:21:56  <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause2: does it check or does it receive mouseover events?
11:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a game option that automatically pauses the server, if less than X clients are connected
11:22:14  <Tefad> oh. dedicated?
11:22:14  <Tefad> meh
11:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tefad: in any case, there must be running a loop checking for events
11:22:43  <fjb> I did never play a multiuser game yet. What happens when there are no clients connected?
11:23:32  <boekabart> fjb: depends on server configuration. It can pause itself
11:23:32  <fjb> The loop doesn't have to use much cpu time. You don't do busy waiting nowadays.
11:24:19  <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause2: meh, i forget this game uses low level languages
11:24:23  <Tefad> yay message loops.
11:24:29  <fjb> boekabart: Thank you. That would be great when the players are sleeping. Else it would be 100 years later when they awake in the morning (or whenever).
11:25:10  <SpComb>  the dedicated server uses CPU even with no clients connected
11:25:18  <SpComb> probably ticking the game state along
11:25:57  <boekabart> SpComb: yes, they are probably not paused then
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11:31:04  * SpComb wonders what the effects in terms of gameplay are if the server remains paused when no clients are connected
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11:32:27  <fjb> It's like when you put your Monopoly aside to eat a pizza before you resume playing. :-)
11:32:33  <Tefad> yeah really
11:32:50  <Tefad> it just sits there waiting for connections
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11:35:18  <fjb> When does electrified rail cost as much as ordinary rail?
11:39:28  <SpComb>                                                       I mean, does it make the server less useable for playing on, or more?
11:39:41  <SpComb> the WLAN here is absolutely horrible
11:39:58  <dihedral|lunch> then try WLAN over there
11:40:13  <SpComb> I'm not sure what it is, but TCP/SSH goes completely stuck
11:40:33  <dihedral|lunch> reception?
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11:44:23  <SpComb> it's not just a bad signal, ICMP ping to the gateway is pretty stable at 2-17ms
11:44:42  <SpComb> but somehow TCP connections just get stuck for minutes at a time every so often
11:45:06  <SpComb> you can open a new SSH session once the previous one gets stuck and screen -dr, it's faster than just waiting...
11:45:36  <SpComb> then you use the new session, and after about ten minutes the stuck session wakes up and detaches
11:47:29  <SpComb> oh, and the network is built out of a couple dozen of those cheapest possible D-Link switches
11:47:50  <boekabart> SpComb: that probably has nothing to do with it :)
11:47:51  <gfldex> try a flood ping
11:47:57  <gfldex> and look at packet loss
11:48:01  <SpComb> the wired network is fabulous, though, esp. Trinet, the student organization's network that's available in the accomodations
11:48:18  <Tefad> ok, i know my friend has a netgear switch that sucks at ssh over the wan port
11:48:25  <Tefad> er switch.. wifi router i mean
11:49:02  <SpComb>'s hosted from underneath my bed via Trinet
11:49:19  <Tefad> hah nice
11:49:24  <boekabart> SpComb: I'm sure that's allowed by their usage policy :)
11:49:34  <SpComb> it is
11:49:41  <boekabart> and the server humming doesn't keep you awake?
11:49:49  <SpComb> no, but the UPS does :/
11:49:51  <glx> <SpComb> ... cheapest possible D-Link switches <-- like DES-1008D ?
11:49:55  <SpComb> it's a temporary arrangement
11:49:57  <Tefad> BOOP BOOP BOOP
11:50:03  <SpComb> ugh, not switches, I mean WLAN access points
11:50:42  <Tefad> yeah, wifi in general seems to be flaky all around
11:50:47  <SpComb> the only Trinet policy is 15GB/week upload, you can pay 5 euros a month for a static IP + reverse, but the default DHCP reservation never really changes
11:51:19  <SpComb> outgoing tcp port 25 is just about the only blocked port, even incoming port 25 is fine
11:51:31  <Tefad> antispam
11:51:54  <SpComb> indeed, you need to send mail through, but that's a very sensible policy
11:55:45  <SpComb> it's possible to set up a working Wi-Fi network, but it takes a lot more than just buying a bunch of the cheapest possible APs and sticking them onto windowsills
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12:28:13  <fjb> frosch123: You are from Clausthal?
12:30:47  <frosch123> yup
12:31:10  <frosch123> Why do you ask?
12:31:35  <fjb> I studied there some years ago.
12:32:30  <fjb> I'm still visiting friends there every few weeks.
12:32:51  * SpComb is on his fifth/sixth week at Helsinki University of Technology
12:33:02  <frosch123> Ok, I expected you would talk about beer.
12:34:23  <fjb> No. :-)
12:34:45  <frosch123> *is on his third/fourth last month at Clausthal University of Technology :p
12:34:55  <frosch123> err /me
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13:02:26  <huma> oi ttders :)
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13:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i have a feeling, waypoint orders do not properly update after relocating the waypoint
13:24:16  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause2: <- something like that?
13:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, something like that
13:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> the strange part is, they drive to the waypoint, but then do not switch the order
13:29:53  <Phazorx> hmm, ECS Tourists vector is a bit bugged still?
13:32:36  <Belugas> ecstown, by the way... not ecstourists
13:32:48  <Belugas> and let say that it is a strange vector
13:33:11  <Belugas> but...  you did not mentionned what makes you think it is still bugged
13:33:32  <Belugas> nor is it the support for the grf or the grf itself which is bugged
13:35:27  <Phazorx> Belugas: if i use combination of vectors
13:35:29  <Phazorx> like all
13:35:37  <Phazorx> tourists centre isn/t there
13:35:42  <Belugas> we know
13:35:56  <Phazorx> so back to question, it is still bugged?
13:35:59  <Belugas> although we currrently do not know why
13:36:04  <Phazorx> or there is a workaround?
13:36:08  <Phazorx> ahh
13:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> alpine ore is still not subject to freight multiplier, and i do not know if that is a grf or an ottd bug
13:36:38  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: that's inetresting
13:37:05  <Phazorx> is there a list of abbriviations used for cargo translated into their names somewhere?
13:37:31  <Phazorx> and detailed description of constuction vector
13:37:49  <Belugas> not that i know of for last question
13:38:03  * dihedral|work greets Belugas
13:38:04  <Belugas> first question, maybe on ttdepatch wiki, i remember there is a section for ecs
13:38:13  * Belugas waves at Diabolic-Angel
13:38:24  * Belugas waves at dihedral|work
13:38:25  <dihedral|work> lol
13:38:30  <Belugas> gaaaa
13:38:33  <dihedral|work> that was hitting tap a little too early :-D
13:38:38  <Phazorx> the basic vector also says it mods power plants... and i recall seeing it do so in ttdp, not the case for ottd?
13:39:29  <glx> basic doesn't do it alone
13:40:13  <Phazorx> glx: perhaps it is a combination, but since i had all ECS  vectors enabled - power plant should have been producing soemthing
13:40:41  <glx> yes sulfur in ttdp but we don't know yet why it doesn't in ottd
13:40:47  <Phazorx> and reason why i asked about construction vector - brickworks take coa and dont take clay
13:40:56  <Phazorx> glx: ahh i see
13:41:34  <Phazorx> also another thing i mentioned - probably grf related - brewery and dock placement on generation stage
13:42:13  <Phazorx> breweries are jam packed in same sity in amounts of 3-6 per, and docks are placed on water tiles, where they obviously sink right away
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13:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think the waypoint bug only applies if the waypoint order is the current order, if you skipped it once, it seems to work fine
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13:56:24  <|frank|> Moin
14:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh, and i just noticed: "dbg: [yapf] Invalid v->dest_tile == 0x1222E5 (train 65, player 0)"
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14:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> and two dozens more of those
14:03:51  <|frank|> Loks like that train got really lost. :-)
14:03:56  <|frank|> Looks
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14:30:02  <Phazorx> hmm... i see 2 kinds of iron ore in ECS, not sure what vector brings them
14:30:05  <Phazorx> but is it normal?
14:30:26  <hylje> :o
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14:33:36  <Belugas> we are pretty new to the ecs joys
14:33:38  <Belugas> who knows
14:34:07  <Phazorx>
14:34:26  <Phazorx> Belugas: i understand that... but you been messing around with NI/NC much mroe than i did
14:34:32  <Phazorx> and perhaps have a better idea
14:35:44  <Phazorx> and 2 kinds of steel mill
14:36:05  <Belugas> true, but not to the same scale as you.  Mixing all those sets togueter was never part of my schedule.  ONly one or two at the same time...
14:36:12  <Belugas> and knowing waht they do
14:36:23  <Belugas> was not necessary to add all them up
14:36:29  <Belugas> or so did i though
14:36:49  <Phazorx> well differet combinations create different results obviously
14:37:06  <Phazorx> in terms of A + B is not same as placing set A and set B industries
14:37:13  <Phazorx> some are becoming interconnected
14:37:48  <Phazorx> but kinda strange, i got dual iron and steel after trying to deal with sulfur byrestarting with disbaled chemical vector
14:38:07  <hylje> :o
14:38:39  <Belugas> hylje, your comments are more than helpfull... lol
14:39:06  <Belugas> pikka stuff is less tortuous, i have to admit
14:39:08  <Phazorx> seems like hylje's jaw been missing for a while too
14:39:47  <Phazorx> Belugas: yeah, newcargo seemed to work fine too (at elast brewery/petrol part)
14:41:32  <hylje> the jaw is at most loosely connected
14:43:07  <Belugas> so it seems :D
14:43:13  <Belugas> at elast we know you're not a ghost ;)
14:44:35  <Belugas> ECS basically adjusts itself with the different grf been loaded
14:44:51  <Belugas> seems like there are some tests been done that are not correctly performed
14:44:52  <Belugas> dunno
14:45:28  <Belugas> 0lus the fact that the loading and enabling of industries (override/substiture) may have some promlems
14:45:42  <Belugas> you do understant why 0.6 was not yet rbough to you :D
14:46:24  <hylje> in other words newindustries is a huge kludge ;)
14:48:12  <Phazorx> okay most bane of ECS seems to be basic one
14:48:21  <Phazorx> which we should probably bring to george
14:48:35  <Belugas> instant poll... is last hylje's comment subject to a kick?
14:48:39  <Belugas> yes/no
14:48:51  <Phazorx> no, we like hylje :)
14:49:09  <hylje> truebrain might want to differ
14:49:11  <Phazorx> Belugas: is thre sometihng funky about basic specificaly?
14:49:13  <Belugas> so no willbe :)
14:49:35  <TrueBrain> @kick hylje I like kicking any day
14:49:35  *** hylje was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I like kicking any day]
14:50:02  <Phazorx> i guess hylje asked for that by highlighing
14:50:04  <Belugas> depens on your level of funkiness, Phazorx
14:50:11  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: yup, his mistake
14:50:29  <Phazorx> Belugas: if all 7 are enabled - basic aside of bringing lots of things also kills tourists centre
14:51:03  <Phazorx> power plant does nto produce anything in any combination (it is part of basic)
14:51:33  <Phazorx> with disabled chemical basic introduces secondary steel mill and ore mine (default colours and settings)
14:52:08  <Phazorx> npw all that applies only to temperate so far
14:52:14  <Phazorx> have not tried other climates
14:53:22  <Phazorx> w/o basic i seems to have 25 working industries
14:55:05  <Phazorx> this might be interface thing for editor, but - produces/accepts/requires in editor seems to be narroed down to produces/requires
14:55:17  <Phazorx> like it states oil rigs require pax/mail
14:55:34  <Phazorx> and many other industries requre vehicles
14:56:17  <fjbAWAY> I got 32 industries. How many you get depends on the sequence in which the GRFs get loaded.
14:56:17  *** fjbAWAY is now known as fjb
14:56:31  <Belugas> industries can only produce or accept.  The requirment is just a matter of callback magic
14:56:48  <fjb> I installed the 8 GRFs from George.
14:57:47  <Belugas> what saddens me is that there can be so many more loaded :(
14:57:53  <fjb> Interchanging the loading sequence gives totally diffent kombinations of availlable industries and the thinks that a single industry produces also change.
14:58:36  <Belugas> because evaluations are done while loading
14:58:46  <Belugas> so order is crucial
14:58:58  <Belugas> in ttdp as well as in ottd.
14:59:08  <Belugas> same mechanism, just different engines
14:59:15  <fjb> But it is really annoying if there are no forrests in a game. :-)
15:00:30  <Belugas> did not said the engine was running fine :P
15:00:31  <Belugas> sadly
15:00:32  <fjb> But at least new industries are usable.
15:00:36  <Phazorx> that means basic and wood mixed fjb
15:01:01  *** hylje [] has joined #openttd
15:01:08  <hylje> i knew it
15:01:11  <Phazorx> and i can get 32 but tourist centre and sulphur is missing then
15:01:24  <fjb> You can mix basic and wood, if wood is loaded after basic.
15:01:28  <Phazorx> w/o basic it looks complete and functional
15:01:34  <Belugas> although ecs is really well done, i prefer pikka.  i think it is better integrated in the overall look ot the original game
15:01:48  <Phazorx> fjb: what i mean lack of forests means you loaded wood before basic
15:02:05  <Phazorx> Belugas: there are massive gfx glitches with ecs
15:04:05  <fjb> And I prefer the DBset and Long Vehicles. Don't know if that works with Pikkas industries.
15:04:05  *** Dephenom [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:04:21  <Rubidium> sorry for saying, but ECS sucks from the beginning already. Quite a few of the graphics totally do not fit TTD (same as the Long (hyper glitchy) Vehicles)
15:04:58  <TrueBrain> hylje: no, you asked for it
15:05:08  <Phazorx> well i'd like to see ERVS working and looking as nice as LV4 does
15:05:25  <Phazorx> fjb: bs doesnt work with ECS
15:05:25  <hylje> TrueBrain: hence i knew it
15:05:33  <TrueBrain> fair enough
15:06:45  <Belugas> I agree with Rubidium (but i would not use "Sucks"  hehe) but one thing that is interesting about ECS is the complexity of the processes
15:06:47  <Phazorx> a tourist centre between potash mine 2 refineries and cement works
15:06:54  <fjb> It is graet that new industries are working so far. But it would be even better if more than one set would be working well.
15:06:56  <Phazorx> that is a concetration camp pretty much
15:07:17  <hylje> Phazorx: those pesky tiurists
15:07:26  <hylje> s/ti/to/
15:07:51  *** Dephenom [] has joined #openttd
15:08:11  <fjb> Maybe they are all indutry bosses, loving to see people work for them. :-)
15:08:28  <fjb> industry
15:08:37  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:12:06  <Phazorx> well scratch that comment about basic being the only issue
15:12:14  <Phazorx> cement works seems to be tropic only
15:12:28  <Phazorx> although cement requiring industries are in temperate?
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15:12:57  <Phazorx> that is a bit weird though
15:14:00  <Rubidium> Phazorx: have you tested the exact same setup in TTDP?
15:14:23  <Phazorx> Rubidium: negative
15:14:31  <Phazorx> i should tohugh
15:14:37  <Rubidium> well... so you don't know whether it is OTTD or ECS
15:14:40  <fjb> glx tested the setup against TTDP last nicht.
15:15:22  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i'd put my bets on ECS
15:15:49  <fjb> There are always 33 industries in TTDP and the industries produce always the same things (but different from what they produce in OpenTTD now).
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15:18:22  <Phazorx> fjb: try to start w/o basic vectore and check 2 kinds of steel mill and 2 kinds of ore mines
15:18:30  <Phazorx> they looks the same btu they dont produce same tihng
15:19:12  <fjb> Waht di they produce?
15:19:20  <fjb> do
15:20:01  <Phazorx> 2 different kinds of ore apparently
15:20:08  <Phazorx> and one mines requries vehicles
15:20:16  <Phazorx> and one of steelmills is coal based
15:20:25  <fjb> Funny :-)
15:21:33  *** Osai [] has quit [Quit: Osai]
15:22:03  <dihedral|work> Phazorx: did the dev server crash again? or did that not happen again?
15:22:08  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:22:10  <dihedral|work> curious to know what happned
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15:22:59  <Phazorx> never happened since i gdb'ed it
15:23:06  <Phazorx> another bohre bug
15:23:06  *** gfldex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:23:30  <glx> heisenbug
15:23:34  <dihedral|work> shame
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15:28:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11233 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1303]: handle some wrong written station NewGRFs a little more gracefully than segfaulting.
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15:34:30  <Phazorx> hmm... does ttdp nighty has speacial ttdbasew grf?
15:35:26  <Belugas> not 1005 sure, but i think so.
15:35:39  <Belugas> look in ttdp-general section of ttdp forums
15:35:46  <Belugas> i think it is referenced there
15:35:57  <Belugas> but dont' take it as cash
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15:42:10  <frosch123> Does someone know, if ssh automatically closes idle connections after some time?
15:42:52  <Rubidium> it shouldn't
15:44:15  <Phazorx> sshd settings can drop idle conenctions
15:44:35  <Phazorx> Belugas: cement can be placed in ttdp on temperate
15:44:48  <Phazorx> w/ or w/o basic
15:48:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11234 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1312]: the explosion vehicles were placed too far to the south.
15:52:54  <fjb> I could buy a cement work in temperate (if I had that much money).
15:53:48  <fjb> The fishing grouds are entitled oil rigs.
15:53:57  <Phazorx> fjb they both are there
15:54:02  <fjb> How do I go fishing anyway?
15:54:09  <Phazorx> and for cement thing apparently you need a rainforest
15:54:12  <dihedral|work> go fish :-)
15:55:05  <fjb> Fish don't have legs. They are not able to go. :-P
15:55:22  <Belugas> fjb, iirc, you should use a ship, refitted for fish
15:55:38  <Belugas> Phazorx: is it good or bad?
15:55:55  <Phazorx> Belugas: ottd behavoir is different from ttdp
15:55:58  * dihedral|work waves at Belugas
15:56:01  <fjb> Oh, ships are not invented yet. We need more ingeneers.
15:56:01  <dihedral|work> :-D
15:56:07  <Phazorx> and ttd doea not require rainforset in temperate for cement works
15:56:53  <fjb> And where did my sulpfur go?
15:57:00  <fjb> sulphur
15:57:02  <Phazorx> fjb: basic set hides it
15:57:18  <Phazorx> by forgetting to mod power plants
15:57:24  <Belugas> i guess you should start to lay down on paper you conclusions, with list/order of grf loaded, landscape, ttdp/ottd behaviours
15:57:44  <Phazorx> Belugas: that sounds liek abug report
15:58:13  <Belugas> agreed.  that is why, since you have so many already, you shold start at laying them down
15:58:26  <Belugas> the hell if i'll grab the logs...
15:58:53  <fjb> It should all be in the logs. :-)
15:59:09  <Belugas> ho no... no way....
15:59:14  <Belugas> way too many lines for that
15:59:16  <Belugas> sorry...
15:59:25  <Belugas> i'm stilla t work, you know?
15:59:33  <Belugas> so... use the proper tool
16:00:01  <fjb> No time. I have to play to find more bugs. :-)
16:00:32  <fjb> And carrying around the new goods is so much fun.
16:00:38  <fjb> :-)
16:01:00  <Belugas> too bad.  no time to fix, too much involved at work
16:01:34  <fjb> Ok, we have to fill in bug report then.
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16:02:30  <Rubidium> oh noes, that means that Belugas will be busying doing his work till like 23:00 CEST
16:06:23  <Belugas> pretty much, yes...
16:08:45  <dihedral|work> be back later, on my way home :-)
16:09:23  *** dihedral|work is now known as dihedral|away
16:09:53  <Belugas> Phazorx, you forgot to mention the ecs's versions
16:10:10  <Belugas> unless you imply those from george's page
16:10:32  <Phazorx> they are and dates are visible in the list on screenshots
16:10:58  <Phazorx> i did submit wrong screenshot from ttdp though
16:11:04  <Phazorx> it is misisng basic
16:11:29  <Phazorx> i tryed w/ and w/o it on both platforms and ttdp worked and ottd didnt in both cases
16:11:40  <Belugas> gaaaa.... you are right..
16:11:46  <Belugas> apologies
16:14:42  <Phazorx> i added proper screenie from ttdp now
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16:19:49  <Ailure> I wonder if there's some kind of conspriancy
16:20:04  <Ailure> with newindustries getting finished a week before my exams
16:20:04  <fjb> Only one kind?
16:20:12  <Ailure> :)
16:20:25  <Ailure> Not like I have much to study on though, I don't feel behind.
16:20:35  <Sacro> w00t, MSDNAA is back :D
16:20:38  <fjb> It's not finished. Bellugas got the first bug report some minutes ago. :-)
16:20:51  <Ailure> finished as in
16:21:03  <Ailure> finished enough to make PBI playable
16:21:04  <Ailure> :P
16:21:23  <Ailure> I will try out the other newindustries newGRF's after this game though
16:21:24  <fjb> Don't do it. It's really too much fun.
16:21:32  <Ailure> too late
16:21:36  <Ailure> at 1938 already
16:21:43  <Vikthor> fjb: Actually I have reported one bug on Friday
16:21:43  <Ailure> the game is definatly more challanging
16:22:04  * Sacro doesnloads MSDN Library April 07
16:22:13  <Ailure> I thought I would hate it
16:22:20  <fjb> Oh, ok, I missed that bug report, sorry.
16:22:20  <Ailure> but the concept of a limited supply is actually somewhat neat
16:22:24  <Sacro> I will be starting a server later i reckon
16:22:31  <Ailure> and coal dosen't seem to be as overly awesome
16:22:32  <Ailure> in PBI
16:22:35  <Ailure> as it used to be
16:22:36  <Sacro> probably Brianetta's Standard GRF set with Pikka's industries
16:22:44  <Sacro> and maybe a couple of other grfs
16:22:58  <Ailure> that probably something which bothered me in orginal game
16:23:01  <Ailure> it's all about the coal
16:23:38  <Phazorx> you can get ECS not to have coal at all
16:23:48  <Ailure> I want coal
16:23:52  <Ailure> but I want it somewhat nerfed too
16:23:53  <Ailure> :P
16:24:17  <fjb> Planes are great at the later stages of the game. But a Zeppelin is also cool. :-)
16:24:33  <Ailure> yup
16:24:34  <Phazorx> planes ewww
16:24:38  <Ailure> I always wind up using the airship at least once
16:24:39  <Ailure> in my game
16:25:28  <Ailure> rather amusing that it makes a helicopter sound
16:25:55  <fjb> That doen't happen in TTDP, I have been told.
16:26:04  <Ailure> yeah I heard that too
16:26:09  <Ailure> I would check it out in TTDP
16:26:23  *** Deathmaker [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:26:25  <Ailure> ...if my orginal TTD+TTDpatch installation was copied correctly :/
16:26:25  <fjb> I could not get sound working at all yet. But I didn't miss it either.
16:26:32  <Ailure> for some reason, the TTD binary is missing in my TTD install
16:26:54  <Ailure> I have no idea how that happened :)
16:27:04  <fjb> Hm, not much luck playing without that binary.
16:27:06  <Phazorx> Ailure: previous exam preparation measures probably :)
16:27:32  <Ailure> or me screwing something up
16:27:37  <Phazorx> Belugas: with same set of ECS vectotrs ttdp does not have dual iron/dual steel :|
16:27:37  <Ailure> whne copying files from my old computer :P
16:28:02  <Phazorx> owen can help you :)
16:29:48  <Phazorx> and cannery is missing in that case
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16:45:27  <Wolf01> hello
16:49:45  <huma> hiya
16:58:32  *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@] has joined #openttd
16:58:32  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:58:37  <fjb> Moin
16:59:04  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
16:59:06  <huma> Bjarni: hi
16:59:34  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:03:17  <Bjarni> hi channel
17:04:15  *** Grey [] has joined #openttd
17:06:25  <Sacro> hi Bjarni
17:08:59  <Amixosx> Bjarni: hey
17:09:37  *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
17:09:49  <huma> Amixosx: using mac?
17:10:11  <Amixosx> atm yes
17:15:40  <fjb> Bye
17:15:42  *** fjb [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia']
17:19:24  <Amixosx> looks like snow tomorrow night
17:19:42  *** SR-UNA [] has joined #openttd
17:19:46  <Amixosx> will melt during morning,.. but wow.. i love snow ;)
17:20:25  <SR-UNA> Hi guys, i just found OpenTTD today :D god i love it, i used to play tycoon for hours years back
17:21:29  <hylje> great
17:21:36  <hylje> a content user
17:21:40  <hylje> what did we do :(
17:22:18  <Belugas> lol
17:22:20  <Belugas> we?
17:22:22  <Belugas> heheh
17:22:34  <Belugas> nice to hear SR-UNA :)
17:22:35  <TrueBrain> You broke the Internet!
17:22:36  <Belugas> and welcome
17:26:21  <Amixosx> SR-UNA: nice
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17:26:35  <Amixosx> what sort of os do you run it on?
17:26:50  <SR-UNA> Win :)
17:26:56  <SR-UNA> (XP)
17:27:21  <Amixosx> ahh
17:29:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11235 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt dutch.txt hungarian.txt italian.txt):
17:29:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-09 19:28:02
17:29:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 fixed by tperic (1)
17:29:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
17:29:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
17:29:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
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17:37:41  <Tyr_Arcana> hiya all, I'm trying to find out the status of the symbian series 60 port, is it playable? where can I find it?
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17:38:24  <Rubidium> I've never heard of it
17:38:41  <Bjarni> heh, I just wondered what it could be
17:38:52  <Bjarni> the only word I know in that name is symbian
17:39:03  <Tyr_Arcana> lol, s60 is a smartphone platform
17:39:05  <Bjarni> so... no official port ;)
17:39:24  <Bjarni> but feel free to make one
17:39:50  <Bjarni> if you can get GCC, sdl and stuff for it, then it should be fairly easy to do
17:39:53  <Tyr_Arcana> lol, I would, if I had time/energy/need/etc
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17:40:43  <Bjarni> if you don't have the need, then why do you ask for it?
17:40:46  <dihedral> hej hej
17:40:55  <Tyr_Arcana> I'm sure I remember seeing a port listed as being in development by someone
17:41:22  <Tyr_Arcana> lol, its an addiction, not a need =P
17:44:01  <Bjarni>  <Tyr_Arcana> I'm sure I remember seeing a port listed as being in development by someone <-- some company in the Philippines did port it, but we aren't related to those guys in any way. They download the source from us (they can due to GPL) and then they release a modified version of it
17:44:22  <Bjarni> and if you donate money to them, it will be for those guys only and we never see any of it
17:44:35  <Bjarni> even though it says "donate for OpenTTD"
17:44:40  <Bjarni> :s
17:46:13  <dihedral> tried it?
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17:47:15  <Bjarni> I have seen it on a phone at uni
17:47:26  <Bjarni> it has issues with the screen size
17:47:39  <dihedral> lol
17:47:48  <dihedral> i actaully meant - tried donating :-D
17:47:52  <Bjarni> as we hardcoded a minimum 640 screen width
17:49:17  <Bjarni> well, I mean if you click the donate link, it will not go to our paypal account, but another one (presumably theirs)
17:50:23  <dihedral> and will they donate some of that then to OpenTTD?
17:50:30  <dihedral> :-P
17:50:38  <Bjarni> AFAIK we never got anything from them
17:50:55  <dihedral> send them an email about that :-D
17:51:05  <Bjarni> we already did
17:51:12  <Bjarni> sort of
17:51:21  <Bjarni> I don't think they like getting Emails from us
17:51:54  <dihedral> lol
17:52:05  <Bjarni> the company is known to try to make money on software made by other people
17:52:16  <Bjarni> looks like it's not located on the Philippines for nothing
17:52:18  <dihedral> heh
17:52:31  <dihedral> why not release openttd under lgpl?
17:52:34  <dihedral> :-P
17:54:36  <Bjarni> we can only change that if we get written permission from everybody who ever wrote anything that has ever been committed
17:54:53  <Bjarni> which is kind of a big task
17:56:14  <dihedral> yep
17:56:33  <dihedral> it will only ever get a bigger task the longer you wait :-P
17:57:09  <Bjarni> lol
17:57:21  <Bjarni> the TV news just wrote about a person from "Findland"
17:57:31  <Bjarni> FinDland.....
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17:57:50  <Bjarni> speak of the devil
17:58:46  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
17:58:51  <Bjarni> how can you trust news reporters, who can't even spell?
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18:01:51  * Tyr_Arcana remembers this window and reads the history about that philippines company
18:03:34  <Tyr_Arcana> hmm... ah well, it'd be tricky to play without a mouse anyway
18:04:18  <dihedral> would it?
18:04:25  <Bjarni> would it?
18:04:38  <Bjarni> it appeared to work ok when it comes to the mouse pointer
18:04:44  <Bjarni> the resolution sucks though
18:04:51  <Tyr_Arcana> I think so, but I've not really tried
18:05:37  <Tyr_Arcana> then again, a friend thought I must be finding it weird having only one mouse button (being on a mac usually), but then I pointed out that the cursor keys scroll, and I use them for website scrolling all the time, so its natural for me
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18:06:06  <Tyr_Arcana> everyone is different, which is the first thing one must learn when writing interfaces
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18:15:51  <Tyr_Arcana> anyways, thanx for the info, I'm off now, gotta cook for my flatmates
18:16:51  <Prof_Frink> s/for //
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18:17:04  <Prof_Frink> Bah, that fails
18:20:21  <TrueBrain> yeah, Half-Life: Orange Box is released :) (for xbox) How cool :)
18:21:35  <Bjarni>  <Prof_Frink> Bah, that fails <-- you don't know what he is going to cook right now
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19:02:06  <Wolf01> how does the ECS industries set work? can i load more than one of those sets at once?
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19:12:37  <glx> Wolf01: yes you can
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19:13:39  <Wolf01> i loaded some of them and i can see only tourists and banks
19:15:29  <glx> order matters
19:15:35  <Wolf01> uhm
19:15:51  <Wolf01> i'll never understand it
19:16:40  <Wolf01> maybe a little readme can be usefull.. is like the sims when you want to install the 2131241 expansions
19:21:52  <Phazorx> order grfs same as grfid
19:22:12  <Phazorx> thay way you only have power plant and cement works not working
19:24:29  <Wolf01> and a good vehicle set for ECS?
19:26:31  <Phazorx> lv4/nars
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19:26:47  <Phazorx> i think that si close to only, rather than good
19:26:54  <Phazorx> and you ened latest lv4
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19:56:38  <mcbane> heh 102% of the estimated 4000k litres  transported.. =P
19:56:54  <glx> it was an estimation ;)
19:57:09  <mcbane> 102%?
19:57:21  <hylje> :>
19:57:22  <glx> 4000k
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19:57:28  <hylje> you're very efficient
19:58:14  <mcbane> using ukrs industries.
19:58:45  <mcbane> but shouldnt the oilwell close down when all oil is transported..
20:00:24  <mcbane> or is it confused by using the transfer other oil.
20:00:51  <Rubidium> mcbane: it is an estimate; if you do not know what the word means, you should look it up in a dictionary
20:01:09  <Belugas> mcbane:
20:01:22  <mcbane> geschÀtzt in german
20:02:10  <Rubidium> mcbane: you should teach your client UTF-8
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20:18:54  <Rexxie> anyone here have any experience with JBOD?
20:19:43  <Rubidium> as in RAID-0-ish?
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20:21:08  <Rexxie> yep
20:21:19  <Rubidium> absolutely not
20:21:34  <Rubidium> only a little with RAID-5 ;)
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20:53:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11236 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1322]: DeleteVehicleChain can just work as good for all vehicles, instead of not allowing trains to use it (enforced by an assert), but actually using it for trains. Patch by SmatZ.
21:03:06  *** huma [~huma@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:11:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11237 /trunk/src/ (rail.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp slope.h): -Codechange: reduce code duplication between GetRailFoundation() and CheckRailSlope(). Patch by frosch.
21:14:14  <Ihmemies> jbod raid0, sounds like.. win
21:14:47  <Ihmemies> i use raid1, because i was too cheap to buy a proper raid5 controller :P
21:15:37  <Ailure> r11229  	rubidium  	2007-10-08 22:06:37 +0200 (Mon, 08 Oct 2007)  	2 lines
21:15:38  <Ailure> -Fix [FS#1307]: one could sell vehicles that were crashed in a depot, which would still yield money.
21:15:49  <Ailure> I'm trying to figure how a train can be inside a depot while crashed
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21:15:57  <boekabart> Ailure: flooded depot
21:17:06  <Ailure> ahhh
21:17:14  <Ailure> I guess
21:17:28  <Ailure> I seen that happening in a flood
21:17:33  <boekabart> IRL?
21:17:36  <boekabart> ;)
21:17:36  <Ailure> no in the game
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21:17:54  <Ailure> before a train could stop a flood
21:18:05  <Ailure> now it still can stop a flood, but only for a few seconds :P
21:19:42  <boekabart> I think we should have smth like a 'walhalla depot' (not @ map) where dead trains go , so you can clone them even if you're not fast enough. Once you have this, you can make flooded vehicles disappear instantaneously.
21:20:07  <boekabart> (of course, not only for trains, but for all vehicles)
21:20:10  <Ailure> I dunno
21:20:20  <Ailure> flooded trains usually disapear too fast for the player to react
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21:20:37  <boekabart> which is still too slow
21:22:12  <Ailure> yep
21:22:21  <Ailure> it looks rather silly when a train get's flooded
21:22:30  <Ailure> it explodes and stays there for a bit, protecting the rails in meanwhile
21:23:32  <Sionide> but making it look nicer would use up valuable GRF space...
21:23:43  <Ailure> it does?
21:23:49  <Ailure> Thought I guess it would be tricky to program
21:23:49  <Ailure> :p
21:23:55  <Rubidium> ofcourse...
21:24:00  <Rubidium> everything that uses sprites
21:24:18  <Ailure> I meant, I could imagine a somewhat better looking flood
21:24:20  <Ihmemies> code it in 3d!
21:24:20  <Rubidium> we don't have, in contrary to TTDP a sprite range for different types of sprites
21:24:26  <Ailure> would have the train derail like it does when exploding
21:24:29  <Ailure> but without turning black
21:24:40  <Ailure> and the rail below it being flooded too
21:24:47  <Ailure> but that might even require engine changes
21:24:58  <Ailure> far more than it would be worth
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21:29:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11238 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix [FS#1316]: the orders of trains going to a waypoint where not updated when the waypoint would be moved.
21:33:12  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:40:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11239 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10495): don't do cargo translation when loading grfs, but do it once all grfs are loaded. This ensure correct accept/produced cargo when a grf uses cargo defined in a grf loaded after itself
21:41:38  <Phazorx> glx
21:41:42  <Phazorx> is that ECS related
21:41:45  <glx> yes
21:42:09  <glx> now power station accepts/produces what it should
21:42:15  <Phazorx> can you elaborate a bit on what exactly it affects?
21:42:19  <Phazorx> ah... thank you
21:42:50  <Phazorx> i wonder if dual ore/mill thing is gone now too
21:42:58  <Phazorx> however doesnt sound too relevant
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21:54:07  <Ailure> heh
21:54:11  <Ailure> there's still a 0.4.8 server up
21:54:17  <Ailure> probably forgotton about
21:54:28  <Ailure> I remember seeing 0.3.X servers for not too long ago
22:00:37  <mcbane> and nighlies >r10000
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22:50:44  <dihedral> g'night
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23:11:04  <SmatZ> good night
23:11:08  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:11:32  <mcbane> night
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23:16:28  <Phazorx> pings to time out :(
23:23:44  <Sacro> ye[
23:23:47  <Sacro> *yep
23:25:12  <orudge> yes
23:25:19  <orudge> network downtime for an upgrade
23:25:20  <orudge> it's a bit annoying
23:25:23  <orudge> but shouldn't be more than maybe 20 minutes
23:39:14  <Phazorx> still no pings
23:39:28  <Phazorx> 1395 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss
23:40:59  <Sionide> patience Phazorx!
23:41:26  <Sionide> "you've got to build bypasses! [do upgrades]!"
23:41:34  <orudge> yes
23:41:34  <orudge> well
23:41:43  <orudge> there's nothing I can do about it, alas
23:41:48  <orudge> it's annoying me much more than any of you :p
23:41:51  <orudge> but one just has to wait
23:42:02  <orudge> ah
23:42:02  <orudge> there we go
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23:43:40  <Phazorx> svn still isnt up...
23:43:48  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
23:44:47  <orudge> yes it is
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23:48:51  <Amixosx>
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23:55:56  <Digitalfox> Hello
23:56:23  <Amixosx> hey
23:56:32  <Phazorx> Amixosx is hoping admins are asleep?
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