Log for #openttd on 14th October 2007:
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00:06:25  *** SpComb [] has joined #openttd
00:06:48  <Belugas> [20:06] <bruce89> and all the other icons down the left side   <-- what do yo mean?
00:07:02  <bruce89> hang on
00:07:21  <bruce89> the ones beside development and graphics development
00:09:29  <bruce89> -[[Image:OpenttdManual.png]]
00:09:29  <bruce89> +[[Image:OpenttdManual.png|64px]]
00:09:29  <bruce89> -[[Image:DevCode.png]]
00:09:29  <bruce89> +[[Image:DevCode.png|64px]]
00:09:36  <bruce89> without the smile
00:10:59  <Belugas> ho... ok
00:11:06  <Belugas> noted
00:11:17  <Belugas> sutpid quesiton, but... what is the advantage?
00:11:32  <Belugas> "stupid question"
00:11:35  <Belugas> grrrrr
00:11:35  <bruce89> it means the icon in the top left doesn't look stupid
00:11:48  <bruce89> user manual that is
00:12:59  <Belugas> ok
00:13:05  <Belugas> i'll pass by the info
00:13:20  <bruce89> good
00:13:33  <Belugas> i do not have rights to edit the page myself (and do not want it either, not my
00:13:36  <Belugas> job")
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13:37:17  <dihedral> which one?
13:37:22  <dihedral> Sacro: which server?
13:37:27  <Sacro> dihedral: wwottdgd
13:37:32  <dihedral> yes - that's ok
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13:38:44  <dihedral> check this out
13:39:31  <Sacro> mm, pretty
13:39:58  <Sacro> though its not valid xhtml
13:40:30  * Sacro confiscates dihedral's valid xhtml signi
13:40:31  <Sacro> *sign
13:40:32  <Ihmemies> not! valid! omg!!
13:41:29  <hylje> wtf is this wwottdgd
13:41:35  <Sacro> dihedral: why are all the trams available from 1920? that looks like a bug
13:41:50  <Ihmemies> what's the point of that page :P
13:42:12  <Ihmemies> some.. server?
13:42:12  <Ihmemies> uh
13:43:40  <dihedral> it's live server data from the wwottdgd beta test server
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13:43:54  <dihedral> wwottdgd does not stand for Whalt Would OpenTTD Guys DO
13:44:04  <dihedral> its World Wide OpenTTD Game Day
13:44:06  <Ihmemies> where i could find the build?
13:44:21  <dihedral> #wwottdgd
13:44:34  <dihedral> or on
13:44:37  <dihedral> or in the forums
13:44:48  <dihedral> and read the topic of that channel
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13:47:35  <Sacro`> hmm:\
13:47:41  <Sacro`> dihedral: what was that channel again?
13:47:48  <dihedral> #wwottdgd
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14:33:12  <fjb> Hi
14:35:59  <blathijs> ey fjb
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14:50:33  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r11257 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix (r11145): wrong endian used when preparing text ref stack
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14:57:44  <skidd13> Anyone who gets the Mersenne Twister Randow Number generator working?
14:58:04  <skidd13> :%S /Randow/random/
15:06:00  <fjb> No, not really.
15:06:12  <skidd13> Ah got it. Missed one define
15:07:01  <fjb> Will that become a new random number generator for OpenTTD?
15:08:35  <skidd13> I noticed that piece of code yesterday and wanted to try it. No idea what are the plans about it.
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15:20:22  <Phazorx> Rubidium / TrueBrain
15:20:43  <Phazorx> apparently reason for desyncs we had on beta test server was not relevant to the patch
15:20:56  <Phazorx> and was caused by triggering wagon speed limits
15:21:13  <Phazorx> being switched off before clients have joined
15:22:05  <mcbane> phasor when i used ECS i build a rail way and the other moved there he desynced.
15:22:11  <Phazorx> i have a feeling that since vehicles speed is updated when they reconfigured in depot, that information is cached soemwhere on server, but then client join they calculate speed based on current settings and not aware that trains should be going slower
15:22:30  <Phazorx> mcbane: on
15:22:40  <Phazorx> this isnt ECS relevant bug tho
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15:25:00  <Maedhros> skidd13: it's been there for years, but it's never been made multiplayer safe, so it hasn't been used
15:25:38  <Phazorx> Maedhros: perhaps you have a comment about what i just metioned?
15:26:15  <skidd13> Maedhros: Sad. It works nicely in singleplay.
15:28:06  <Maedhros> Phazorx: i haven't looked at that bit of code, so not at the moment ;)
15:33:05  <mcbane> phazorx: ?
15:33:56  <Phazorx> mcbane: we are not using ecs at the moment and that desync is unlikely relevant to NI, and i was wondering on what server did you get the desync you describe
15:34:05  <Phazorx> was it one that runs in
15:34:14  <dihedral> TrueBrain:
15:34:19  <mcbane> i was trying it in lan network
15:34:43  <dihedral> you have a script to make pisg change autopilots lines to actually get credited to the actual players?
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15:50:18  <mcbane> hmm
15:50:49  <mcbane> if i scoll over my rail lines then .. boom.. desync..
15:52:38  <Phazorx> strange
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16:10:14  <mcbane> bjarni (i think it was him) said coalpowerplant has been fixed also , but i still have no sulphur..
16:10:36  <glx> using recent nightly?
16:10:36  <mcbane> but im sure i have the latest versions of the datafiles of ecs.
16:10:39  <mcbane> yes
16:11:01  <mcbane> 11255
16:11:26  <mcbane> got 33 industries.
16:11:57  <glx> works for me
16:12:40  <mcbane> strange
16:12:51  <mcbane> in what order did you load em?
16:12:58  <glx> new game or loaded game?
16:13:18  <mcbane> the esc grf files.
16:13:33  <glx> I put them in grfid order
16:13:33  <TrueBrain> dihedral: <publicserver> Name: is replaced by <Name>, yes
16:13:47  <TrueBrain> and pisg doesn't do that, but the log-files are changed
16:13:49  <Phazorx> glx / TrueBrain: can you comment on what i stated here ~50 min ago on wagon speed limits disabling and desyncs?
16:13:56  <fjb> I get sulphur in temperate climatic, but not in alpine climatic.
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16:15:05  <hylje> newindustries makes me want a fantasy set for o?ttdp?
16:15:16  <hylje> a toyland which isn't just as silly
16:15:24  <glx> fjb: don't mix industry sets
16:15:34  <mcbane> glx: town , basic,chem,machinery,wood,construction,agricultur?
16:15:44  <glx> mcbane: yes
16:16:00  <mcbane> strange
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16:16:16  <fjb> I use the besic vector for arctic climate.
16:16:21  <fjb> basic
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16:18:00  <glx> fjb: using only ECS ?
16:18:44  <fjb> Yes, Georges ECS vectors and long vehicles and Michaels DBSetXL.
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16:19:59  <Petar> moi
16:20:02  <Petar> *moin
16:20:06  <fjb> Moin
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16:20:29  <Petar> fjb, sprichst du Deutsch?
16:21:28  <glx> fjb: works for me
16:21:53  <Petar> unwell. Someone else who speaks English?
16:22:00  <Petar> ehrm, I mean German ;-)
16:22:24  <glx> only English is allowed here ;)
16:22:42  <fjb> Petar: Ja, ich spreche Deutsch.
16:23:11  <fjb> Petar: I'm speaking english, too.
16:23:12  <fjb> :-)
16:23:55  <fjb> glx: Maybe it's the alpine.grf that makes trouble with ECS.
16:24:16  <glx> compare with ttdp
16:24:37  <Petar> unwell. Okay, I'll try it. - I want to realize in OpenTTD something like the mainstation of Zurich. may be 53 tracks, and over 800 trains leaving and connecting. - The problem is with normal signals I can not realize this. I have to choose the PBS signales. - Does someone know a good tutorial for PBS signals?
16:24:57  <glx> no PBS in ottd
16:25:20  <Petar> but why?
16:25:25  <glx> not coded
16:25:42  <glx> and not easy to code
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16:26:46  <mcbane> same here petar =D
16:28:25  <mcbane> ok glx.
16:28:32  <mcbane> i tried on other comp and it works..
16:28:37  <mcbane> totally strange
16:29:00  <mcbane> but still i can desync lan game with esc,.
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16:40:05  <Phazorx> peter there are ways to deal with load
16:40:36  <Phazorx> and PBS is not the only one... mind you i have no idea what kind of CPU 800 PBSed trains will requite but it is at least 5x to what normal game does
16:41:47  <peterbrett> Zurich station is fun :)
16:42:02  <peterbrett> How about starting small(er), and doing Basle?
16:44:21  <SmatZ> PBS is not "imaginary"? can real trains go on the same signal segment?
16:45:18  <dihedral> Smatz yes
16:45:26  <fjb> Yes they can.
16:45:36  <SmatZ> scary :-/
16:45:49  <hylje> i think it's only when the switches are set correctly
16:46:49  <fjb> Yes, it is only possible when their paths don't cross.
16:47:31  <fjb> Real signals ususally show red and go to green only when a train enters that signal block.
16:47:44  <hylje> defaults to red
16:49:09  <fjb> That's why I like Teekis proposal for a new signal system in OpenTTD. But Tekki seams to have disaapeared.
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16:50:40  <Sacro> *coughs* not just his
16:51:21  <fjb> Oh, ok, sorry Sacro.
16:53:25  <hylje> it's okay to ignore Sacro
16:53:29  <Wolf01> /sito OTTD_related/lego/T.png
16:53:33  <Petar> what is with ?! - Is this realized yet?
16:53:33  <Wolf01> mh
16:53:37  * Wolf01
16:53:39  <Wolf01> comments?
16:54:16  <Sacro> what word do german people really mean when they translate to "Realized"
16:55:08  <fjb> Petar: That is the proposal I talked about.
16:55:14  <hylje> Wolf01: pretty cool
16:55:29  <dihedral> Wolf01: that looks good
16:55:44  <fjb> Sacro: It means: Is it implemented yet?
16:55:59  <Sacro> fjb: well why not used "Implemented"
16:56:06  <Wolf01> i think that the  - - - - line is not so good, but i'm poor of ideas
16:56:47  <fjb> Sacro: I would like to see you writing german: :-)
16:58:22  <Sacro> Warum?
16:58:24  <Maedhros> using "realised" there is valid english as well... ;)
16:58:49  <fjb> Not everybody speaks english that well.
17:00:33  <Sacro> bug: the ukrs grainflow hopper shows (refittable) when it has no refit options
17:01:37  <Maedhros> yeah, it's always done that - (technically it's true too - it *is* refittable, but none of the cargoes it's refittable to are available)
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17:03:58  <Petar> ehrm, are there plans to programm a tool to build signals into tunnels?
17:04:09  <Maedhros> not at the moment
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17:04:45  <Maedhros> tunnels (and bridges) don't actually exist on the map - only the entrances and exits do
17:04:58  <Maedhros> vehicles just move in straight lines between them at a constant speed
17:06:48  <fjb> How do trains break down on bridges then? :-) (Yes, I know, bridges are called a black hole in the source.)
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17:07:10  <Petar> Maedhros: but whats the problem? is it to difficult to programm this or is the problem the human? ^^
17:07:12  <Maedhros> ok, ok, so the speed is not necessarily constant ;)
17:07:36  <Maedhros> but they still don't know anything about their surroundings - their breakdown counter has just reached 0
17:07:51  <Maedhros> Petar: both - it's difficult to program, and no-one's attempted it ;)
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17:10:34  <Sacro> grr
17:11:20  <Petar> Maedhros: it's funny. I don't know, how to programm in C very well, but I am very good in informatics (i am studying it). - I am our man, how can I help you^^?
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17:12:40  <peterbrett> Would be nice to have PBS in 0.7 :(
17:13:02  <Noldo> it would be nice to have everything NOW!
17:13:07  <Maedhros> Petar: one of things you'd need is a way to actually store the signals and the signal state on the map
17:13:24  <Maedhros> you'd also need a way to build them - the gui isn't really set up for that at the moment
17:13:46  <Maedhros> adding layers to the map array is one option that has been suggested for storing the signals
17:14:26  <Maedhros> you'd also need to update the vehicle controllers to check the signals, and you might need to update the signal code to take tunnels and bridges into account
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17:16:14  <Maedhros> and one of the main things you need is time, which i don't have all that much of anymore :-(
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17:16:40  <Petar> okay, i think, i am better in playing openttd than programming^^
17:17:15  <peterbrett> I can't help but wonder if it would be worth using a sparse map array
17:18:02  <peterbrett> Divided into tiles (say 32x32)
17:18:07  <Petar> a dirty idea might be to say that tunnels and bridges are like normal rail lines, but on tunnels and bridges is a graphical layer which "hides" them. - in the gui setting you can turn the layer on and off, and so you can build signals
17:18:21  <peterbrett> And you only add extra layers to the tiles which need them
17:19:03  <SmatZ>
17:19:21  <SmatZ> something I am working at, but it takes 'some time'
17:19:36  <Petar> SmatZ: yeah, something I though
17:19:43  <Maedhros> ooh, impressive :)
17:19:44  <peterbrett> funfunfun
17:20:33  <SmatZ> :)
17:20:58  <Ihmemies> just remember to make some nice gfx for the currently black titles too :P
17:21:50  <fjb> That look really good.
17:22:08  <SmatZ> it is not hard to place only rails, but this way you can see the rectangle it is built at...
17:22:23  <dihedral> what on earth is that SmatZ
17:22:37  <fjb> I have to leave you now. I'm going to meet some friends for an evening full of non digital games. :-)
17:22:45  <Petar> tschÃŒss fjb ;-)
17:22:57  <fjb> Have fun.
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17:23:12  <SmatZ> dihedral: haven't seen that yet? :)
17:23:19  <dihedral> no :-)
17:23:28  <dihedral> it looks like a cool feature
17:23:36  <peterbrett> What are these "non-digital games" of which he speaks?
17:24:15  <Petar> sex, drugs and rock'n'roll?!
17:24:20  <dihedral> lol
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17:28:59  <Petar> what's with the "new" renderengine? i read something about a new renderengine?! (ottd renders graphics^^?)
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17:53:38  <TrueBrain> Petar: most likely you mean the 32bpp
17:54:16  <Petar> yeah, thanks
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18:36:23  <dihedral> is there an easy way to make max_loan something like 4 or 8 mio?
18:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, change the conversion factor in your custom currency :p
18:40:10  <dihedral> no seriously
18:40:17  <hylje> yes not seriously
18:40:25  <dihedral> for a 55 client game, with a bunch of coopers
18:40:32  <dihedral> 1 mio might be trickey
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18:41:04  <hylje> haha, 55
18:41:07  <hylje> how large maps
18:41:09  <hylje> -s
18:42:20  <dihedral> 1024^2
18:42:28  <dihedral> it's running right now
18:42:34  <dihedral> and we already had 32 clients connected
18:42:37  <Amix^> what is the real difference between railroad tycoon and transport tycoon?
18:42:38  <dihedral> #wwottdgd
18:42:46  <Amix^> that railroad tycoon is only trains?
18:42:48  <Amix^> ;p
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19:14:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11258 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#1325]: if a Load Amount callback returns 0, it means (according to TTDP's source code, not "the" specs) that it should take the "default" one.
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19:27:46  <dihedral> >	SmatZ has left the game (general error) <--- when can that happen? never seen it before?
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19:29:09  <SmatZ> likely I forgot to use the server patch
19:29:31  <SmatZ> yes I did, sorry
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19:33:02  <dihedral> SmatZ: lol
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19:45:20  * Wolf01
19:45:20  <Wolf01> another little preview
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19:46:03  <SmatZ> looks like original Lego parts :)
19:46:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11259 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1331]: the wrong song was played in the first intro game of a single OTTD session.
19:46:45  <Wolf01> but i didn't draw the zebras :P
19:47:52  <SmatZ> I saw only the straight ones... :)
19:49:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11260 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Codechange: replace a magic number by a less magic enumified constant. Patch by ammler.
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19:50:27  <mcbane> so whats that means (more clients?)
19:50:57  <SmatZ> no...
19:51:14  <SmatZ> only replaces one numerical constant with enumerated one
19:51:20  <mcbane> ah.
19:57:31  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11261 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: Draw selection sprites (HT_RECT, HT_POINT, HT_RAIL) on foundations as ChildSprite of the foundation, not as single ParentSprite. Patch by frosch.
19:59:52  <Wolf01> does this mean that the square selection is not more covered by the tile?
20:01:18  <Rubidium> you mean foundation?
20:01:50  <Rubidium> if so, then yes
20:01:51  <Wolf01> yes, when the tile has foundations, the square is offten covered by the raised tile
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20:07:20  <bruce89> Rubidium: thanks for that
20:07:28  <bruce89> funny nobody reported it before
20:11:11  <Rubidium> s/reported/noticed/ maybe?
20:11:41  <bruce89> it's reasonably obvious, mabye people don't have the music
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20:12:51  <skidd13> hi
20:13:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11262 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#1330]: do not check for vehicles that are not on the ground when removing owned land, furthermore do not check for shadows (of aircraft).
20:13:09  <dihedral> hi
20:13:10  <bruce89> which is the best thing in the game
20:13:28  <dihedral> bruce89: did you hear my remix
20:13:30  <dihedral> ?
20:13:41  <Rubidium> bruce89: only if timidity wants to play it nicely
20:13:53  <Rubidium> it's kinda resource heavy
20:14:00  <bruce89> remix?
20:14:22  <dihedral>
20:14:39  <dihedral> working on getting the sax to hold the notes just a wee tick longer
20:14:42  <Sionide> ohh
20:14:47  <skidd13> Rubidium: You complained over the original town layout bridge behavior. Did you check FS1338?
20:16:01  <Sionide> dihedral, this is your replaced some of the instruments remix
20:16:12  <Sionide> sounds cool
20:16:19  <Sionide> get rid of the opening bit though..
20:16:22  <Sionide> TTO is way better
20:16:57  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11263 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp landscape.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Reduce code duplication between DrawBridgePillars and HasFoundation{NW|NE}. Patch by frosch.
20:16:58  <Kommer> TTO?
20:18:12  <Sionide> yeah original
20:18:17  <Sionide> the original theme tune
20:18:26  <Sionide> not the transport tycoon deluxe on
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20:19:09  <Kommer> ow.never heard that one
20:20:40  <dihedral> Sionide: i shall do a complete remix of that too
20:20:59  <dihedral> Rubidium: i can buy vehicles and sell vehicles in paused mode, but cannot give orders??
20:21:55  <bruce89> doesn't work
20:22:26  <Rubidium> bruce89: works fine here
20:22:40  <bruce89> maybe it was the svn server
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20:24:54  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11264 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace a lot of magic numbers with enums for the rail and road GUIs. Patch by skidd13.
20:25:13  <bruce89> I don't get any music on start now
20:25:46  * Wolf01
20:25:46  <Wolf01> which is better?
20:26:15  <bruce89> Wolf01: left
20:26:37  <mcbane> left ,  thinner lines.
20:27:10  <Wolf01> both have the same lines, the right has only longer lines :P
20:27:24  <skidd13> Wolf01:maybe less lines look better.
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20:30:44  <dihedral> the lines look a little wobbely
20:31:33  <Wolf01> 'cause my antialiasing ability is not much trained :P
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20:47:46  <bruce89> dihedral: did you just replace some instruments with other ones
20:48:07  <dihedral> yes aswell
20:48:31  <dihedral> some stereo effects
20:48:36  <dihedral> and deleted some others
20:48:49  <dihedral> moved some instruments further into bg other fg
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20:52:36  <bruce89> what happened to the theme between TT and TTD
20:56:02  <skidd13> Rubidium:nice idea with the bit shifting!
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20:58:55  <bruce89> why is the code supposed to be C++, it looks like C mostly
21:01:54  <skidd13> bruce89: The 0.5 series is mostly plain C (yapf, etc. excluded). Its hard work to convert all code from C to C++. You can compile C code with a C++ compiler so the conversion can be done step by step.
21:02:16  <bruce89> of course
21:02:29  <bruce89> why bother converting though
21:02:56  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:03:25  <skidd13> C++ has advantages. And a bastard of C and C++ is not nice.
21:03:41  <Maedhros> eh, i'm a C coder, so it works for me ;)
21:03:55  <bruce89> Linus has some things to say about ++
21:04:17  <Maedhros> Linus has some things to say about a lot of things
21:04:41  <skidd13> Linus is human and no god!
21:04:50  <Maedhros> although if he's talking about C++ in the kernel he's more than likely to be right
21:04:59  <dihedral> linus comments on anything and everything
21:04:59  <bruce89> it was in git
21:05:28  <bruce89> somebody was shocked to see git was in C, and he said something about bad things being written in C++
21:05:38  <bruce89> so all things in C++ are bad apparently
21:05:40  <dihedral> and besids linus' oppinion on stuff, everybody here has their on
21:06:12  <Prof_Frink> Write everything in brainfuck!
21:06:36  <bruce89> go back to assembly
21:06:42  <ln-> Look what Linus has to say:
21:07:20  <skidd13> bruce89: assembly <- you seem to be on the wrong IRC room the one from TTDPatch is over there ;)
21:07:26  <bruce89> those are 2 words you hope to never see toghether
21:07:53  <bruce89> linus and speedo that is
21:12:14  <Prof_Frink> Could be worse. Could be rms.
21:12:32  <bruce89> I suppose so
21:16:35  <Ammller> Rubidium: around? I have really bad output on my debugger
21:16:46  *** FlowaPowa [] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa]
21:16:46  <Ammller> (or even no output)
21:16:58  <Maedhros> Ammller: i think he's gone to bed
21:17:23  <bruce89> no output in a debugger?
21:18:52  * Wolf01 quits
21:18:55  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:19:00  <skidd13> night
21:19:01  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:19:05  <Ammller> but exits almost hourly
21:19:05  <Ammller> does openttd.cfg support include an other file?
21:19:06  <Ammller> so we could have one file with banned IPs for all servers
21:19:26  <glx> no
21:19:59  <skidd13> Ammller: what about a script included in the autopilot?
21:20:26  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: maedhros * r11265 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Feature: Make more advanced rail types more expensive to build.
21:21:31  <bruce89> ooohhhhhhh
21:22:10  <Ammller> Continuing.
21:22:12  <Ammller> Cannot find user-level thread for LWP 3900: generic error
21:22:12  <Ammller> (gdb) quit
21:22:12  <dihedral> Ammller: the banned ip's dont even get written to the cfg during the game
21:22:14  <Ammller> thats all I get
21:22:14  <Ammller> Maedhros: cool thing
21:22:25  <Maedhros> and with that, it's time for me to go to bed
21:22:29  <Maedhros> good night :)
21:22:32  <dihedral> good night
21:22:39  <Ammller> thank you very much Maedhros :)
21:22:39  <skidd13> good night
21:22:39  <dihedral> me too
21:22:45  <dihedral> g'night
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21:23:12  <skidd13> Ammller: How was the more clients test run?
21:23:31  <Ammller> technically no problems
21:23:36  <skidd13> :)
21:23:54  <dihedral> skidd13: twas awsome :-)
21:24:00  <Ammller> :)
21:24:30  <dihedral> looking forward to the actual game
21:24:33  <Ammller> yeah, I need to sleep
21:24:36  <Ammller> over that first
21:24:43  <dihedral> heh
21:24:57  <dihedral> over the numbers calculated or what?
21:25:16  <Ammller> no, they aren't bad
21:25:54  <dihedral> 100GB + for 24h?
21:26:25  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:26:32  <skidd13> woot
21:26:46  <Ammller> dihedral: ?
21:27:13  <Ammller> @calc 250 / 13 * 55 * 60 * 60 * 24 / 1024 / 1024
21:27:15  <DorpsGek> Ammller: 87.151160607
21:27:26  <Ammller> dihedral: whats that?
21:27:54  <dihedral> estimated traffic in GByte for a full 24 hours
21:28:11  <dihedral> sorry - missing a /8 there
21:28:20  <skidd13> number of max clients?
21:28:25  <dihedral> 55
21:28:25  <Ammller> 55
21:28:33  <skidd13> :D
21:28:38  <dihedral> @calc 250 / 8 / 13 * 55 * 60 * 60 * 24 / 1024 / 1024
21:28:39  <DorpsGek> dihedral: 10.8938950759
21:28:46  <dihedral> ok - 10 gig
21:28:58  <dihedral> + save game downloads
21:29:09  <dihedral> 1.8 - 2.6 mb each
21:29:11  <Ammller> one per 10 mins
21:29:24  <Ammller> hmm, maybe more
21:29:35  <dihedral> well - for an average that's ok
21:29:35  <Ammller> but thats the worst case
21:29:38  <dihedral> yes
21:29:42  <dihedral> exacltly
21:29:57  <dihedral> there aint no point on doing something withough expecting worst case :-)
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21:30:32  <Ammller> we should define companies and their "worker" before start
21:30:37  <Sacro> where is  tekky
21:30:43  <dihedral> "worker" ?
21:30:49  <Ammller> players
21:31:03  <dihedral> that is why i though of making a company for each continent
21:31:04  <Ammller> for me its hard work, when I play OTTD
21:33:22  <TrueBrain> dihedral: and, how is it going?
21:33:36  <dihedral> i am really happy - must say
21:33:52  <TrueBrain> do tell
21:34:31  <dihedral> i appreciated seeing so many souls joined together in some strange way via the i-net... adicted to one and the same game
21:34:37  <dihedral> missing out social life
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21:34:40  <dihedral> :-D
21:34:52  <Sacro> i hate the high amount of co-op playing
21:35:02  <Sacro> it really ruins the game and makes the map look so unbelivably ugly
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21:35:08  <dihedral> Sacro: it aint gonna be a forever game
21:35:16  <dihedral> just 24 hours or something along those lines
21:35:37  <Sacro> dihedral: yes, i just hate the people who put huge 4 line tracks and stupid dirty big useless junctions everywhere
21:35:56  <dihedral> lol
21:36:14  <dihedral> Sacro: join company 255 and enjoy the chatter
21:36:28  <Ammller> Sacro: indeed, that should be other in the next time
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21:36:38  <dihedral> seriously TrueBrain, i just enjoy watching stuff like that
21:36:42  <Sacro> Ammller: ?
21:36:54  <Sacro> dihedral: company 255?
21:36:56  <Ammller> too many were on one company
21:37:05  <dihedral> Sacro: company 255 = spectator
21:37:05  <Sacro> god
21:37:12  <Sacro> a 2MB save ><
21:37:19  <dihedral> lol
21:37:21  <dihedral> :-)
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21:37:48  <TrueBrain> dihedral: and, any idea about the bandwidth usage?
21:38:36  <dihedral> 10 gig + downloading the map
21:38:43  <dihedral> that's for 24 hours
21:38:49  <dihedral> on net_frame_freq = 2
21:38:57  <Ammller> but worst case
21:39:01  <TrueBrain> @calc 10 * 1024 * 1024 / 24 / 60 / 60
21:39:01  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 121.362962963
21:39:04  <TrueBrain> 121 kb/sec
21:39:07  <TrueBrain> how many players?
21:39:07  <Ammller> or even best case
21:39:22  <dihedral> 55
21:39:34  <TrueBrain> not bad
21:40:05  <dihedral> sounds about right
21:40:27  <dihedral> that actually sounds like net_frame_freq = 1
21:40:36  <ln-> let me speak some dutch; P(s), V(s)
21:40:47  <Ammller> we had about 100k when 20 players were playing
21:41:04  <dihedral> 250 with 13, no?
21:41:16  <dihedral> 250 kbit
21:41:24  <Ammller> oh, yeah could be sorry
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21:41:29  <TrueBrain> bah, grfs...
21:41:32  <TrueBrain> I hate grfs! :p
21:41:33  <dihedral> hence the calculation
21:41:47  <TrueBrain> one <unknown> newgrf, lol :p
21:41:53  <dihedral> TrueBrain: and what amazed me most was that even with so many clients, all udp packest still worked a charm
21:42:03  <TrueBrain> udp always works
21:42:07  <dihedral> heh
21:42:13  <Ammller> TrueBrain: just realod the server info
21:42:13  <dihedral> depends
21:42:15  <TrueBrain> udp is designed for that
21:42:15  <dihedral> packet size
21:42:39  <Ammller> TrueBrain: and check the revision
21:42:44  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i am more regarding to the packet size limit, only sending one packet for each type (INFO | DETAIL | NEWGRF)
21:43:10  <dihedral> if you have 55 clients, the INFO_DETAIL packet is more than doomed to run out of space
21:43:29  <dihedral> make that DETAIL_INFO :-P
21:44:05  <dihedral> anyhow - i need to get to bed now
21:44:14  <dihedral> have quite some stuff to work on tomorrow
21:44:50  <TrueBrain> lol, .tar support seems totally broken :)
21:45:12  <TrueBrain> euh, nevermind
21:45:15  <TrueBrain> UDP newgrf is broken :p
21:45:16  <TrueBrain> hehe
21:45:28  <ln-> "not funny!", tron would say
21:45:40  <dihedral>
21:45:44  <Sacro> where'd he go?
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21:45:59  <dihedral> heh - those are cached :-D
21:45:59  <Sacro> @seen Tron
21:46:00  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Tron was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Tron> let me revert it
21:46:10  <Ammller> <-- could be closed
21:46:26  <Sacro> Ammller: but it's 1337 :(
21:46:27  <ln-> Sacro: again, that was not _the_ Tron
21:46:49  <dihedral> TrueBrain: UDP seems ok on that page
21:47:06  <mcbane> udp?
21:47:39  <dihedral> a packet type
21:47:43  <TrueBrain> dihedral: the naming of newgrfs are wrong from time to time
21:47:49  <dihedral> heh
21:47:51  <Sacro> SYN!
21:47:52  <dihedral> how come
21:47:55  <dihedral> that is odd
21:48:09  <dihedral> SYN is a flag in a tcp packet Sacro, not a packet type
21:48:15  <Sacro> :(
21:48:20  <Sacro> i was hoping someone would reply
21:48:26  <dihedral> ACK
21:48:29  <Sacro> but then, if i don't specify a target, then i probably won't get one
21:48:30  <Prof_Frink> sACKro
21:48:34  <TrueBrain> SYN and ACK are no packets
21:48:41  <Sacro> TrueBrain: they are spacestations?
21:48:48  <dihedral> flags
21:49:07  <dihedral> one bit flags at different positions in tcp packets
21:49:14  <dihedral> syn floods are actually quite neat
21:49:24  <glx> there's no control for UDP
21:49:31  <glx> it's just sent
21:49:37  <dihedral> most dsl home routers/modems dont have syn flood protection
21:49:52  <dihedral> glx: data in the udp packets are sent in a certain way
21:49:58  <dihedral> *is
21:50:03  <TrueBrain> Sacro: SYN and ACK are part of the TCP implementation
21:50:12  <TrueBrain> as dihedral says, flags to be set
21:50:12  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: No, data are plural
21:50:32  <Sacro> what is the singular?
21:50:33  <dihedral> you still never have 'data are'
21:50:40  <dihedral> there is no singular
21:50:52  <dihedral> hence it's an exception and always 'is'
21:50:52  <TrueBrain> data can't be singular :)
21:51:01  <Sacro> Etymology
21:51:01  <Sacro> From Latin data, plural of datum (‘that is given’), neuter past participle of dare (‘to give’).
21:51:02  <glx> datum is
21:51:15  <Sacro> i thought datum actually...
21:51:45  <dihedral> used in the latin language as singular :-)
21:52:07  <dihedral> TrueBrain: did you hear my little ttd theme remix :-P
21:52:09  <TrueBrain> you can only use datum if you use datus too :p
21:52:29  <glx> datus?
21:53:10  <Prof_Frink> Aah, latin grammar
21:53:16  <TrueBrain> :)
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21:53:25  <Sacro> hmmm
21:53:34  <Sacro> graffiti is plural
21:53:39  <Sacro> graffito is the singular
21:53:47  <glx> like spaghetti :)
21:53:54  <Sacro> are you sure?
21:53:57  <Sacro> spaghetto?
21:54:01  <dihedral> lol
21:54:02  <Sacro> or spaghettio?
21:54:10  <dihedral> sei pazzo
21:54:25  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Italian hifi.
21:54:32  <Prof_Frink> Spaghetto blaster
21:54:55  <Sacro> spaghetti (uncountable; an individual strand is called a piece of spaghetti or a strand of spaghetti)
21:55:02  <Sacro> glx: are you trying to con me :p
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21:56:37  <dihedral> night ladies ;-)
21:57:10  *** G [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:57:25  <Ammller> nacht dihedral
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22:00:43  <mcbane> hmm
22:01:02  <mcbane> what did you do? i crash less with ecs set now.
22:01:24  <mcbane> err desync
22:03:55  <mcbane> what i dont understand in uk renewal set is that there are trains at 1902 but no passenger and cargo wagons.
22:11:12  <skidd13> Ammller:you want FS#1337 to be closed?
22:14:37  <Ammller> I guess, Rubidums explainations are quite good and the issue isn't really importend
22:14:47  <skidd13> Ok I close it.
22:15:43  <Prof_Frink> How lame
22:15:49  <mcbane> ?
22:15:57  <Prof_Frink> Bug 1337 should be "openttd is not 1337 enough"
22:17:36  <skidd13> Ammller: closed as you whished ;)
22:17:42  <bruce89> only 1337 bugs?
22:18:19  <skidd13> bruce89: since the init of flyspray... There has been the SF bug-tracker before.
22:18:31  <bruce89> that's more like it
22:18:51  <glx> and it includes patches and feature requests too
22:19:23  <TrueBrain> @openttd bugs
22:19:25  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 19; Opened this week: 19
22:19:27  <TrueBrain> we don't have that many open bugs ;)
22:23:00  <bruce89> that's pathetic
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22:24:38  <skidd13> bruce89: Thats open-source (free time development). How long needs Mircrosoft and other commerical to fix their bugs half a year? OTTD fixes most bugs in less than a few days!
22:24:48  <bruce89> so I notice
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22:24:53  <bruce89> GNOME has 33848 open bugs
22:27:06  *** FlowaPowa [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:27:41  <Prof_Frink> Ubuntu has 32911
22:28:06  <huma> openttd has?
22:28:23  <bruce89> @openttd bugs
22:28:23  <DorpsGek> bruce89: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 19; Opened this week: 19
22:28:29  <huma> haha
22:28:53  <TrueBrain> we try to keep it as small as possible :)
22:28:57  <mcbane> @hmm bugs
22:28:58  <TrueBrain> so far we are doing a nice job, so I think
22:29:03  <TrueBrain> mcbane: try thisone
22:29:05  <TrueBrain> @kick mcbane
22:29:05  *** mcbane was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [TrueBrain]
22:29:09  <glx> :)
22:29:13  <huma> eek
22:29:23  <bruce89> Evolution has 209 more bugs than it had last week
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22:30:00  <bruce89> there wasn't a youtube link there was there?
22:30:08  <huma> it was hidden
22:30:15  <mcbane> very funny brain..
22:30:18  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
22:30:23  * TrueBrain hugs mcbane
22:31:01  <bruce89> no wonder there are no admins (or whatever they are called) in #osm
22:31:06  <huma> hey jude..
22:31:35  <huma> osm?
22:31:42  <bruce89> OpenStreetMap
22:31:58  <huma> ah
22:32:05  <TrueBrain> they tell you which street is not accessble right now
22:32:08  <TrueBrain> because of roadwork and such
22:32:23  <bruce89> really?
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22:32:29  <bruce89> it more of a free world map
22:32:34  <TrueBrain> oh? :p
22:32:46  <bruce89>
22:33:10  <TrueBrain>
22:33:21  <TrueBrain>
22:33:54  <bruce89> road map that is
22:34:16  <mcbane> truebrain when generating the map the generator tries where to place the industries right?
22:34:24  <glx> yes
22:34:26  <bruce89> _Ben_ is an OSMer
22:34:29  <glx> why?
22:34:57  <_Ben_> Hi
22:35:08  <mcbane> because i was it placing tourist center in the water. and of cause at the end the got flooded.
22:35:14  <mcbane> without a message of cause.
22:35:19  <bruce89> indeed
22:35:49  <mcbane> im not sure how to log such stuff without compile openttd.
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22:42:47  <skidd13> good night
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22:48:00  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:52:34  <Sacro> bounce
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23:10:45  <fjb> Hi
23:11:46  <DaleStan> Rubidium: Re r11258: I think the official lines are "zero is failure" and "If the vehicle has no capacity for that cargo, it shouldn't be refittable to that cargo." But yes, the docs aren't entirely clear on that.
23:15:03  <ln-> how does one pronounce "ASCII"?
23:15:19  <glx> aski
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23:25:39  <Belugas> [18:37] <mcbane> because i was it placing tourist center in the water. and of cause at the end the got flooded.  <--- I saw it too. I'll try to find out why, but it's not going to be an easy task.
23:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: it was about loading speed, not capacity
23:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> weird, i suddenly have statues and fountains with bare ground instead of paved area
23:37:59  <ln-> when can we build underwater tunnels?
23:38:41  <DaleStan> Oh. *grumble* I've fallen into that "load amount" vs "capacity" trap before. The "zero is failure" applies more impressively there, though.
23:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, now my BR 05 can actually carry passengers around ;)
23:43:35  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Couldn't it before?
23:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: see FS#1325
23:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i find most interesting is that it actually behaves differently in temperate and alpine...
23:48:12  <fjb> Yes, strange. It's 1932 in my alpine game.
23:49:01  <fjb> Oh, power stations produce sulphur now in alpine, too. They did not in r11255.
23:50:15  <glx> I don't see any reason for it to not work in r11255
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23:53:42  <fjb> Don't know. They did not in r11255. I compiled r11265 some minutes ago and now they do.
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23:55:53  <fjb> Electrified railways are more expensive to build. That's great. Now there is a reason to also build nonelectrified railways.
23:59:15  <fjb> But there are still three kinds of bank in alpine climate.

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