Log for #openttd on 15th October 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:29  <fjb> But I didn't test if it different in TTDP yet.
00:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> now i need shunting, to only have to electrify the relevant (steep) sections of my rail network, and still let the trains drive through the entire network
00:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: conversion from electric to normal rail should give money
00:04:54  <ln-> why would anyone want to do it that way?
00:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> to regain the copper used in the catenary?
00:06:38  <Ihmemies> ages ago max year was 2050....
00:06:42  <Ihmemies> is there any limit nowdays?
00:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> in 1914, all central german catenary was removed to get the copper for "war relevant" stuff
00:06:43  <fjb> I will only electrify the mainlines now.
00:06:55  <Ihmemies> openttdcoop's year is now 2148
00:06:58  <Ihmemies> i'm just curious :P
00:07:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ihmemies: something like 5 million or so
00:07:13  <Ihmemies> cool
00:07:23  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11266 /trunk/src/ (table/sprites.h water_cmd.cpp): -Documentation: Add a few comments. Parts of BigBB's work on shores
00:08:56  <Phazorx> Belugas: got an NI/GRF question
00:10:18  <fjb> Shunting would be great. But it would not be that easy to implement, I guess.
00:11:02  <Ihmemies> hmpf, double mode (ctrl+d) doesn't work on win32 vista :|
00:11:36  <Ihmemies> build11235. is it supposed to still work? :D
00:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: apart from the way trains are composed of sub-trains instead of simple wagons, you need a big GUI/Order rewrite, to have them sensibly programmed (from gamer's point of view)
00:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm thinking of that way: i have 200 ore wagons, two ore stations, and one steel station
00:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i tell 100 ore wagons to go to ore station A, and 100 to go to ore station B, then gather at hub station C
00:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> then i have 2 small engines with orders "take 5 wagons from A/B to C"
00:14:34  <Belugas> go on Phazorx
00:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> and one engine that says "take 15 wagons from C to steel station D"
00:15:11  <Phazorx> Belugas: estimated capacity in pbi
00:15:17  <Phazorx> it goes beyond 100%
00:15:23  <fjb> Hm, yes, but would it be possible to add an engine to the train just to pull them over a hill?
00:15:25  <Phazorx> then it goes beyound 200%
00:15:30  <Phazorx> then ity gets to 255%
00:15:34  <Phazorx> and then back to 9
00:15:36  <Phazorx> 0
00:15:50  <Phazorx> does that number mean anything, and should it overlap like that?
00:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: yes, you would tell the train "go to A, wait there for engine"
00:16:41  <Belugas> i have no clue.  you should ask pikka himself what is the intended and effective behaviour
00:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the helper engine you say "go to A, join with train, goto B, split off train"
00:17:05  <Belugas> Phazorx: have you tested it in ttdpatch ?
00:17:20  <glx> Ihmemies: ctrl-d has been removed
00:17:24  <Phazorx> Belugas: nope, kinda takes a while :)
00:17:39  <Belugas> well... nothing i can say either :(
00:17:40  <Belugas> sorry
00:17:50  <Ihmemies> glx, why :-(
00:18:02  <glx> blitter rewrite
00:18:14  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: that sounds great. When will you implement it? :-)
00:18:18  <Ihmemies> so it's coming back (or something like it)...
00:18:24  <Phazorx> Belugas: it just looks like data bits limitation.... which is probably more engine related than grf
00:18:29  <glx> it may come back
00:18:34  <Ihmemies> :|
00:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: haha ;)
00:18:41  <Belugas> Phazorx, keep noticing the behaviour and try to give a save game.  it is possibly a bug, but since it is a new feature, it's hard to tell
00:18:45  <glx> but every try failed for now
00:18:51  <Ihmemies> probably when everyone has those 3000x2000px displays
00:18:54  <Phazorx> i have savegame and screeny
00:19:29  <Belugas> Phazorx, anything is possible.  But i doubt it is related to a limitation of data
00:19:47  <Phazorx> you wanmt the savegame by any chance?
00:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of double mode (ctrl+d) you should have separate GUI x2 zoom, and another map zoom in level
00:20:04  <Belugas> Phazorx: but if you can debug it and eventually propose a fix, more than welcome ;)
00:20:04  <Belugas> anyway, i have to go to sleep.  rough day tomorrow
00:20:09  <Belugas> night all
00:20:16  <Phazorx> night
00:20:51  <Phazorx> glx: i got a dfesync hint that my worth investigating if you are interested
00:20:59  <Phazorx> not sure if it worth a bug report tho
00:21:10  <fjb> I used a screen magnifier sometimes. :-)
00:21:31  <glx> Phazorx: I'm not in a desync hunting mood
00:22:05  <Phazorx> :o(
00:22:34  <ln-> why does desync abort the whole game?
00:22:42  <ln-> that WAS NOT the way it was in TTD.
00:23:10  <ln-> in TTD you could have two different realities running on different computers.
00:25:55  <Phazorx> i dont think ttd behavior is correct
00:26:53  <Phazorx> with how desync events are tracekd right now - it is not possible to say what exactly is different aside of the fact it is
00:27:57  <Phazorx> synchronization can be achieved by reDLing whole data set, which is identical to relogin
00:41:19  <SmatZ> :-D
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00:42:08  <SmatZ> two different games, different things are happening, commands issued by one player may have different results in the other game...
00:42:38  <SmatZ> I think the way desyncs are detected is very elegant
00:53:24  <ln-> SmatZ: are you saying multiple concurrent realities wouldn't make the game more exciting?
00:54:39  <ln-> on one world you destroy an unused piece of rail, on the other one that click destroys your most important airport.
00:55:34  <ln-> also trains jumping between worlds could cause interesting signalling challenges.
00:56:38  <fjb> Everybody should have his own alternate reality. :-)
00:56:48  <SmatZ> :-)
00:57:23  <SmatZ> different patch settings, different modifications to ottd...
00:57:30  <SmatZ> yeah, that would be interesting
00:58:42  <fjb> Help. How do I build this station without PBS. :-/
00:59:22  <SmatZ> this is the fun, designing hubs and stations without PBS!
00:59:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i really don't have fun there...
01:00:08  <fjb> It would be more fun if you could build above a tunnel entrance.
01:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are situations that really don't work...
01:00:22  <fjb> Diagonal bridges would also help.
01:00:41  <SmatZ> hmmm 3am, good night all
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01:01:07  <Sacro> OpenTTD needs more realistic signalling
01:01:11  <fjb> The presignal blocks are really stupid sometimes...
01:01:18  <Sacro> though how I'd like it is probably too realistic for most
01:01:34  <fjb> Yes, it does. But who does the coding?
01:02:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> the current presignal system is just too simple
01:02:48  <Sacro> i think trains should be allowed to go past 1 reverse signal
01:02:56  <Sacro> so long as it can route to a same facing one
01:03:01  <Sacro> this should allow for bidi track
01:03:10  <fjb> I'll try it anyway. But I should remeber to build bus stops in that town first.
01:03:10  <Sacro> and trains should be routed from junction to junction
01:03:14  <Sacro> not signal to signal
01:03:35  <Sacro> no
01:03:40  <Sacro> junction to junction on bidi
01:03:46  <Sacro> signal to signal on sidi
01:04:22  <Ihmemies> i'm fine with signals ;P
01:04:39  <Ihmemies> now when there's this "press ctrl to fill track with signals" feature
01:04:40  <fjb> Some day I will find out how the pathfinder translates signals and junctions into nodes.
01:04:48  <Ihmemies> signaling isn't annoying anymore as it was before
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01:05:09  <Sacro> fjb: it doesnt
01:05:13  <Ihmemies> altough some kind of priority signal would be nice
01:05:15  <fjb> It is less annoying. :-)
01:05:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never used that autosignalling
01:05:31  <Sacro> fjb: YAPF and the signals are independant
01:05:39  <fjb> Sacro: How else does it work?
01:05:47  <Sacro> fjb: the signals use OPF
01:06:22  <fjb> YAPF looks only for junctions?
01:07:08  <fjb> Ofcourse it does... now I'm thinking about it.
01:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPF caches long rail sections without junctions
01:07:43  <Sacro> yeah
01:07:51  <fjb> Signals only put weight on the paths betwenn the nodes.
01:07:52  <Sacro> the signals are not at all intellegent
01:08:10  <Sacro> all they do is see if they can go to the next without hitting a train
01:08:35  * Sacro is le tired
01:09:00  <Ihmemies> :P
01:09:17  <Sacro> i should stop playing MSTS
01:09:27  <Ihmemies> of course it would be awesome if trains could find their way and not collide with each other without signals :D
01:09:42  <Sacro> heh
01:09:46  <Sacro> that'd not be realistic
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01:10:03  <|fjb|> Ups
01:10:43  <|fjb|> I hate it when my IP number ist forced to change...
01:11:09  <bruce89> perhaps they should have walky talkies instead of signals
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01:11:58  <|fjb|> bruce89: Go to wikipedia and look for train crashes... :-)
01:12:07  <bruce89> hmm
01:12:22  <bruce89> TGVs don't use signals
01:12:27  <bruce89> they're too fast for it
01:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not entirely true
01:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> they don't use VISUAL signals
01:13:04  <|fjb|> Not only TGVs.
01:13:25  <bruce89>
01:13:32  <bruce89> just a wee blue light
01:13:58  <Sacro> errr...
01:14:01  <Sacro> thats not a signal per se
01:14:12  <bruce89> seems to work for them anyway
01:14:31  <Sacro> what do you mean?
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01:14:43  <Sacro> its OTW
01:14:52  <Sacro> i would assume anyway
01:14:57  <Sacro> given the fact they're using tokens
01:14:57  <bruce89> in fact, there used to be no signals and they just used big token things
01:15:01  <Sacro> yes
01:15:02  <|fjb|> The signals are in the computers today. The show up on the display.
01:15:03  <Sacro> thats all that is
01:15:11  <Sacro> thats an electronic token thingy
01:15:16  <Sacro> not a signal
01:15:32  <bruce89> one nice railway though
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01:28:45  <fjb> Why does the newspaper always tell me that something will close down when it already has been closed down?
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01:30:32  <bruce89> papers always have yesterday's news
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01:32:25  <fjb> But it should tell what will have been closed down, at least.
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01:56:57  <fjb> Good night.
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07:24:09  <dihedral> morning
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07:48:21  <asure> Hello people, I bet you're all sleeping.. Infact I don't even know why I come here to ask a question.. hehe
07:49:12  <Noldo> now that's a great start
07:49:16  <asure> Haha
07:49:18  <boekabart> hi asure
07:49:27  <asure> So people are awake at this hour?!
07:49:33  <boekabart> rest asure-d, some people are awake :)
07:49:55  <asure> Ah
07:50:01  <boekabart> asure: 'this hour' doesn't mean anything on a world
07:50:22  <asure> Would you mind if I asked you guys for some insight into a little problem I'm having with OTTD?
07:50:33  <dihedral|work> you just asked a question
07:50:50  <asure> Ah I did indeed, but it does not pertain to OTTD specifically.. Right?
07:50:54  <asure> Atleast I think so, anyway..
07:51:10  <dihedral|work> just ask - if nobody answers, ask again in 10 hours
07:51:14  <asure> haha
07:51:21  <asure> I'm having an issue with the vehicle replacement button, I really don't see it. I only see a manage vehicles button (Send to depot, etc) What's going on here, is there some patch or mod I have to enable to see it first?
07:51:37  <dihedral|work> version?
07:51:41  <boekabart> asure: first of all , what version do you use?
07:52:02  <asure> 0.5.3?
07:52:25  <asure> I think that is the latest version, but it might not be
07:53:13  <dihedral|work> vehicle list, button on the right hand side ('manage v') where v is a arrow pointing downwards
07:53:16  <dihedral|work> click and hold
07:54:31  <asure> Oh wow, I'm an idiot then I suppose..
07:54:36  <asure> Sorry for such a simple question ;)
07:54:38  <asure> Thank you
07:54:52  <dihedral|work> you're welcome
07:54:59  <asure> for answering such a simple question*
07:55:18  <dihedral|work> * for showing you that you are.... just kidding :-P
07:55:32  * dihedral|work laughs
07:56:12  <asure> Oh, I'm well aware of how thick I can be sometimes. :)
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07:58:45  <dihedral|work> same here, same here :-)
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08:18:12  <dihedral|work> asure: enjoy the feature :-P
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09:04:01  <fjb> Hi
09:06:43  <dihedral|work> hello
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09:46:48  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: for pisg are you using the cache dir option?
09:50:19  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: it doesn't have any, so no
09:50:56  <dihedral|work> command line option -cf CacheDir="/path/to/config/dir"
09:50:57  <dihedral|work> :-)
09:51:06  <dihedral|work> works for me :-)
09:51:16  <dihedral|work> saves to a file called -
09:51:32  <TrueBrain> maybe I should update pisg then :p
09:51:39  <dihedral|work> so each channel should get a config dir
09:51:43  <dihedral|work> which version do you have?
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09:52:30  <dihedral|work> it's in the 0.70 documentation
09:53:37  <kampasky> Hey guys, any chance to restrict openttd-svn to a closed list of senders? it's not like anyone other than the bot should ever send stuff there...
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09:54:19  <TrueBrain> kampasky: it is; only the bot is allowed to send via it
09:54:31  <TrueBrain> strangly enough, some spammer found a way to act like the bot...
09:54:45  <kampasky> it should also restrict envelopesender then
09:54:56  <TrueBrain> it does
09:55:08  <TrueBrain> the headers of the spam and real email are identical
09:55:13  <kampasky> Received: from [] (helo=
09:55:13  <kampasky>         by with smtp (Exim 4.67)
09:55:13  <kampasky>         (envelope-from <>) id 1IhMMM-0004ev-82
09:55:13  <kampasky>         for; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:35:41 +0000
09:55:18  <kampasky> are they really?
09:55:19  <TrueBrain> huh?
09:55:27  <TrueBrain> it should check on that.....
09:55:32  * TrueBrain slaps mailman
09:55:38  <TrueBrain> it can be so annoying
09:55:41  <kampasky> of course even that protection is not perfect, but should cut off the spam rate a bit at least
09:55:53  <TrueBrain> I wish mailman had an IP filter for this
09:55:56  <TrueBrain> but I couldn't find it...
09:55:59  <kampasky> yeah :(
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10:10:42  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: so what version of pisg do you have?
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10:24:00  <TrueBrain> argh, I need a upnp av client for linux..
10:24:04  <TrueBrain> djmount keeps giving: out of memory
10:24:07  <TrueBrain> annoying!! :p
10:24:20  <dihedral|work> free-av :-P
10:24:30  <dihedral|work> has a linux client
10:24:40  <TrueBrain> and how does a virus scanner going to help me?
10:25:05  <dihedral|work> oh
10:25:16  <dihedral|work> perhaps i should read every word you say (was missing the upnp)
10:25:24  <dihedral|work> just read av and linux :-P
10:25:33  <dihedral|work> and client
10:27:01  <TrueBrain> k, CacheDir works, tnx a bunch dihedral|work
10:28:09  <dihedral|work> :-)
10:28:23  <dihedral|work> otherwise pisg does use a bung and a gob
10:29:02  <dihedral|work> i was having pisg runn every hour for 2 channels, and all games just started laging
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10:40:26  <Phazorx> tb so it does do caching it seems...
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10:56:03  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: clearly, hidden, but it does :p
10:57:08  <TrueBrain> stupid djmount keeps giving: out of memory
10:57:10  <TrueBrain> really: wtf?! :p
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11:06:13  <Ammler> hu dihedral|lunch
11:06:40  <dihedral|lunch> irc-stats back up :-) found the caching feature :-P
11:06:50  <dihedral|lunch> just for the fun of it :-P
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11:28:15  <WITTU> I cant figure out what i should write to the ttd patch and to get it work right
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11:37:24  <TrueBrain> wow, joining a channel for 4 minutes, asking a question after 3 minutes, and not waiting any reply be leaving after 1 minute
11:37:28  <TrueBrain> people still amaze me
11:37:48  <dihedral|work> and asking a question in the wrong channel :-P
11:37:53  <TrueBrain> pff, the things you have to do to get your patch accepted by ffmpeg...
11:38:06  <TrueBrain> I had to show tcpdumps to proof I was right...
11:38:21  <dihedral|work> things one has to do to get patches into ottd
11:38:26  <dihedral|work> heh - there is nothing one could do
11:38:52  <dihedral|work> appart from being patient and let devs work in their own time :-P
11:40:08  <TrueBrain> well, if you think ottd sucks, try ffmpeg :p
11:40:09  <TrueBrain> lol
11:40:51  <dihedral|work> i never said anything along those lines
11:40:58  <dihedral|work> i think ottd is great
11:41:16  <dihedral|work> for being at 0.x release versions :-)
11:41:25  <dihedral|work> and you guys put a lot of work in
11:41:26  <TrueBrain> :)
11:41:35  <TrueBrain> Slijmbal
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11:41:40  <dihedral|work> yet i somtimes miss some more admin features
11:41:43  <TrueBrain> :p
11:41:52  <TrueBrain> there simply are no admin functions :p
11:42:03  <TrueBrain> NoAI should be finished, so Squirrel can be added as console script
11:42:09  <TrueBrain> that opens up a lot of posibility :)
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11:42:24  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: it's still stuff like setting company passwords from the console
11:42:44  <dihedral|work> and stuff like the 'reload config' patch :-)
11:43:11  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: which is much easier to allow via Squirrel, yes
11:43:54  <dihedral|work> the reloading of the config?
11:43:56  <dihedral|work> :-)
11:44:23  <dihedral|work> #openttdcoop uses it IIRC or at least the game
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13:03:27  <Eoin2> Hi
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13:48:35  <fjb> Moin
13:50:33  <dihedral|work> moin moin
13:50:45  <dihedral|work> 12 mins late, who cares :-)
13:50:53  <dihedral|work> oh - it's just 2 ;-P
13:51:07  * dihedral|work should learn to read the time correctly
13:51:15  <dihedral|work> s/time//
13:51:25  <dihedral|work> /s/the time// :-)
13:51:30  <TrueBrain> time is all relative
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14:03:49  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: from your point of view, would i in any way be able to help with implementing squirrel?
14:04:21  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: finish NoAI
14:04:56  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: i dont have the skills
14:05:09  <TrueBrain> finishing NoAI doesn't require skills, just a lot of time
14:07:46  <dihedral|work> i shall have a snoop around the code
14:08:57  <dihedral|work> and see if i find anything that i could possibly be of any help at
14:09:03  <dihedral|work> :-P
14:09:23  * Sacro wants a bottle of vodka and commit rights!
14:09:40  <TrueBrain> Sacro: proof your worthyness :)
14:09:48  <Sacro> *prove :)
14:09:56  <TrueBrain> failure
14:09:57  <TrueBrain> k :p
14:10:14  <Ailure> mmmhhhhhhhh$BgO(B
14:10:40  <Sacro> not as much a failure as him ^^
14:10:59  <Ailure> :p
14:11:36  <Sacro> that was almost "special"
14:16:09  <dihedral|work> _almost_
14:16:21  <Ailure> mmm
14:16:24  <Ailure> damn i'm tired
14:16:30  <Ailure> I have too much fun
14:17:15  <dihedral|work> you get tired from too much fun?
14:17:26  <dihedral|work> your parents must have had a very easy life with you
14:17:42  <Ailure> Actually I just had a exam and studied like hell
14:17:54  <Ailure> and only slept two hours last night
14:17:58  <Ailure> almost wrote that as two horses
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14:18:08  <TrueBrain> It's the... EYE of the tiger (8)
14:19:59  <Ailure> Trying to decode that smiley
14:20:01  <Ailure> is screwing with my head
14:20:40  <dihedral|work> it's not a smily - it's an 8 wrapped in brackets
14:35:21  <Ammler> grf2html for 4LV takes long...
14:37:51  <Ammler> there are also Linux gurus here, how can I run a command for every grf in the pack? (wine grf2html.exe <grf>)
14:38:04  <Ammler> I would also have a list, if that would help
14:38:08  <TrueBrain> for i in `ls *.grf`; do wine grf2html.exe $i; done
14:38:22  <Ammler> ah, try that
14:38:58  <Ammler> TrueBrain: they are in subfolders, does that work too?
14:39:06  <TrueBrain> ls */*.grf
14:39:09  <TrueBrain> scans 1-deep
14:40:20  <dihedral|work> find . -type f -name "*.grf" -exec wine grf2html.exe '{}' ';'
14:40:22  <Ammler> if I have a list like that, I could run cat <list> instead of ls *.grf
14:40:25  <glx> find and grep can manage recursion too
14:40:32  <TrueBrain> Ammler: yes
14:41:06  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: find sucks for those jobs, as the syntax sucks ass
14:41:25  <dihedral|work> was just a thought
14:41:30  <TrueBrain> find * | grep ".grf$" | xargs -n 1 wine grf2html.exe
14:41:34  <TrueBrain> also an option ;)
14:41:42  <Sacro> glx: yay, another person who uses find | grep
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14:41:56  <Ammler> I made the list with tree
14:41:58  <TrueBrain> but I like fors, as you can alter the $i value ;)
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14:42:58  <TrueBrain> cat <list> | xargs -n 1 wine grf2html.exe
14:43:01  <TrueBrain> lol, many options :p
14:43:06  <Ammler> tree -if ottdc_grfpack | grep -i "GRF$" > ottdc_grfpack.cfg
14:43:29  <TrueBrain> tree -if ottdc_grfpack | grep -i "GRF$" | xargs -n1 wine grf2html.exe
14:44:09  <Ammler> hmm, nice, thanks very much guys
14:45:15  <Sacro> none use awk :(
14:45:30  <TrueBrain> too tricky for such simple tasks
14:47:38  <frosch123> Ammler: Try grf2html --nodata <- that is a lot faster :)
14:48:05  <Ammler> then, I have no images?
14:48:14  <Ammler> thats enough for reading nfo :)
14:48:31  <frosch123> depends, if you have generated the images before.
14:48:34  <Ammler> seems to be a cool tool frosch123
14:48:48  <frosch123> nice, if it is useful for you.
14:48:49  <Belugas> it is, believe me
14:49:06  <Ammler> yeah, I just try to understand some grfs
14:49:58  <Ammler> frosch123: has it something to do with the grfmaker?
14:50:07  <Ammler> or do they just share same svn repo
14:50:33  <Belugas> only sharing plus both written in Delphi
14:53:15  <Ammler> ok, 4lv is a litte bit too big for it, 50% done in about half an hour.
14:53:25  <frosch123> Note: If you decode a station, industry or house grf, you should not use the --nodata switch. It will skip the bounding box preview :) <- that is my favorite feature
14:53:45  <frosch123> err, that does not sound correct.
14:53:51  <fjb> Hm, maybe you could compile grf2html on Linux using Free Pascal?
14:53:55  <Ammler> is it because of wine?
14:54:18  <frosch123> No grf is big enough to take longer than a minute or two.
14:54:37  <Ammler> ok, I try it on windows then....
14:55:04  <frosch123> I am very sure, that I also testes 4LV with wine.
14:55:33  <Ammler> Sysinfo for 'inspiron-suse': Linux running KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.4", CPU: Intel(R) Core 2 CPU         T5600  @ 1.83GHz at 1000 MHz (3657 bogomips), HD: 80/141GB, RAM: 1976/2026MB, 152 proc's, 2.13h up
14:55:59  <Ammler> so the hardware couln't be quilty
14:56:04  <frosch123> much bigger machine than mine :)
14:56:19  <Ammler> oh, maybe the network
14:56:26  <Ammler> hehe
14:56:41  <frosch123> Yes that could be, it creates a lot of files.
14:56:44  <Ammler> its a samba share, :)
14:57:31  <frosch123> Under windows there is a big speed up, if you run grf2html a second time, when the files allready exist and only get overwritten.
14:59:56  <Ammler> frosch123: Action 10 would be nice with seeing the char, if possible
15:00:16  <frosch123> fjb: I already tried to compile it using lazarus, but it kept printing stupid errors I did not understood. I guess there are some subtle differences in "class" syntax.
15:00:20  <Ammler> and of course, Action 7/9 too then...
15:00:40  <frosch123> What do you mean with "char"?
15:00:57  <Ammler> Label ID
15:00:57  <Ammler> 0x52
15:01:01  <Ammler> -> R
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15:02:41  <frosch123> Interessting, who encodes label IDs with characters?
15:03:04  <frosch123> I.e. which grf does that?
15:03:12  <Ammler> oh, is that stupid
15:03:29  <Ammler> my first try to fix the aircraft speed has that
15:03:50  <Ammler>
15:04:20  <Ammler> 35 * 14	 10 "Running costs"
15:04:39  <Ammler> 23 * 6	 07 01 01 02 FF "R"
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15:09:59  <frosch123> Ok, 4LV takes three minutes over the network here. one second with --nodata :)
15:11:07  <Ammler> my "fileserver" is a really old maschine
15:19:21  <fjb> I have the strong feeling that the combi presignals have some bugs...
15:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, they just have poor semantics
15:21:27  <fjb> Why does a train choose the occupied platform and not the free one? It can reach both. :-(
15:21:48  <hylje> hmmmm
15:21:59  <hylje> is a switch-based pathing mechanism feasible?
15:22:17  <hylje> rather than train-based
15:22:20  <glx> like PBS?
15:22:59  <hylje> it'd work like pbs
15:23:32  <Sacro> hylje: yes, thats what tekky was working on
15:23:40  <hylje> aww
15:24:25  <fjb> Anyway, the train should choose the free platform. There is a switch betwenn the train and the two platforms. In front of both platforms are block end signals. In front of the switch is a combi presignal.
15:24:51  <fjb> Will Tekki ever come back...?
15:25:05  <hylje> fjb: that works great, you're doing something wrong. the coop people do huge stations based on that all the time
15:25:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume it's poor signalling on your part, fjb
15:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i have to catch a bus now...
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15:26:56  <fjb> Ok, I'm also away for about half an hour.
15:27:07  <Ammler> fjb: provide us with screen or save
15:27:10  *** fjb is now known as fjbAWAY
15:32:00  <Ammler> 4lv 2html done :)
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15:42:18  <skidd13> Hi
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15:43:22  <skidd13> Can I set defines via Configure/Makefile?
15:49:51  <Progman> which one do you want to set?
15:51:35  * dihedral|work greets
15:52:52  <skidd13> Progman: MERSENNE_TWISTER
15:53:32  <skidd13> I'm thinking of something like "./configure --enable-mersene"
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16:00:14  <Ammler> ah, I see, you are using Action10 only with labe E0..., hmm, why?
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16:03:35  <Ammler> hmm, just for downwards compatibility
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16:23:52  <Progman> can you confirm this? If you buy and engine and add a waggon which supports different cargos the "change cargo type" button get not updated (only half by a MarkDirty call from the money raising in the trains viewport)
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16:29:12  <skidd13> I've to leave for now. See you later.
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16:34:25  <Wolf01> hello
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16:54:19  <UnderBuilder> heh it is nice to see patch developers helping ottd
16:54:57  <UnderBuilder> and will be even better if it also happens viceversa
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17:14:10  <Ammler> SpComb: Is it possible to delete or stop Server on
17:14:30  <Ammler> my tests are still in the official list
17:14:53  <Ammler> I stopped them many times, but seems not working
17:16:28  <SpComb> the list?
17:16:53  <SpComb> do you mean the 1/2/3 servers?
17:17:25  <Ammler>
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17:18:19  <SpComb> hmm... Stop works fine on my servers
17:18:26  <SpComb> what happens after you hit Stop?
17:18:29  <Ammler> yeah, I can stop them
17:18:39  <Ammler> but maybe after some days
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17:18:55  <Ammler> I find them on the list and have to stop them an other time
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17:19:12  <Ammler> and how to delete?
17:19:19  <SpComb> I recently changed it such that stopping a server should cause it to not start up anymore
17:19:26  <SpComb> there's no way to delete servers, you can only stop them
17:19:31  <Ammler> ah, ok
17:19:44  <Ammler> maybe last time I stopped, was before your changes
17:20:10  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
17:20:10  <Ammler> !logs
17:20:24  <Ammler> ^^ Do you host that?
17:20:45  <Ammler> Possible you could add #openttdcoop there?
17:21:48  <Wolf01> Channel not online: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getHighestFlag' «
17:22:16  <Wolf01> i really like this log :D
17:23:40  <Wolf01> uhm.. i should enable javascript sometimes
17:24:01  <Wolf01> (but the error is there)
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17:28:16  <UnderBuilder> what is wwottdg?
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17:31:22  <Progman> world wide ottd game
17:33:07  <Ammler> --day
17:33:41  <Ammler> join #wwottdgd
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17:40:59  <UnderBuilder> what is is? a openttd mod?
17:41:19  <glx> they raised the client limit
17:41:43  <UnderBuilder> but not the company limit
17:42:46  <UnderBuilder> will be hard to raise it to 16?
17:43:06  <UnderBuilder> (16 = total number of CC
17:43:08  <UnderBuilder> )
17:43:21  <glx> may lack of free space in map
17:43:30  <glx> but I didn't check
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17:51:26  <Ammler> hmm, I guess the limit of companies is much harder, then the limit I patched.
17:51:36  <Ammler> was only changing a constant
17:52:31  <glx> client number is just a memory thing :)
17:54:33  <Ammler> YouTube link == Ban <-- serious?
17:54:39  <Ammler> :)
17:54:50  <bruce89> try it and find out
17:54:55  <LionsPhil> Is bankrupcy supposed to actually sell off your assets, as the news report claims?
17:55:15  <Ammler> I am wondering which movie was the source to make this rule
17:55:33  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
17:55:33  <Ammler> !logs
17:55:41  <LionsPhil> Might just have been influx of "hey dudes check out this cool vid" ;)
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17:56:09  <bruce89> Ammler: probably
17:56:18  <Ammler> but sometimes I say really nice videos here
17:56:26  <Ammler> releated to trains specially
17:56:40  <UnderBuilder> :)
17:56:55  <UnderBuilder> (joke)
17:56:57  <UnderBuilder> :P
17:57:04  <bruce89> you've done it now
17:57:21  <LionsPhil> Good job it's not triggered automagically by the bot.
17:57:42  <bruce89> now there's an idea
17:57:46  <UnderBuilder> noone understands my sense of humour
17:58:11  <Ammler> !s/say/saw/
17:59:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: miham * r11267 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:59:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-15 19:58:13
17:59:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by fukumori (1)
17:59:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 12 fixed by thetitan (12)
17:59:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 118 fixed, 32 changed by jhsoby (150)
17:59:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: swedish - 1 fixed by ChrillDeVille (1)
17:59:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 22 changed by mad (22)
17:59:22  <Sacro> @kick UnderBuilder posting youtube links
17:59:26  <Sacro> aww :(
18:00:34  <bruce89> @lastseen Belugas
18:03:29  <UnderBuilder> heh the wwottdgd binary's version is
18:04:13  <Ammler> oh, only this Rabigram
18:04:19  <bruce89> @seen Belugas
18:04:20  <DorpsGek> bruce89: Belugas was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Belugas> only sharing plus both written in Delphi
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18:21:55  <Wolf01> [information] i finished the curved road tiles for the brickland
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18:32:49  <Sacro> [information] i want some tea
18:33:16  <boekabar2> Sacro: via DCC ok?
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18:33:27  <Sacro> boekabart: i like this idea
18:33:54  <Sionide> mmmm
18:33:57  <Sionide> gutsy is niiice
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18:36:32  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11268 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix[FS#1336]: Call IsSlopeRefused whenever it is required. Looks like there was one spot missing. Thanks frosch
18:40:09  <Belugas> bruce89, you requesst re-opening of FS1331 can yu expand?
18:40:49  <bruce89> there is no music on start now
18:41:08  <Belugas> can you activate the music afterward?
18:42:44  <bruce89> yes, when playing, there is music
18:42:56  <bruce89> just the main screen on first start has none
18:44:01  <Belugas> i
18:44:05  <Belugas> ll check tonigh
18:44:24  <Belugas> anyone that confirms/infirms this?
18:45:23  <Wolf01> confirmed
18:46:54  <Wolf01> i can hear the music only during play
18:47:05  <Wolf01> or when i return to main title
18:47:13  <Wolf01> but not when i run openttd
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18:58:04  <bruce89> how do I build a debug version?
18:58:47  <Noldo> ./configure --help
18:58:56  <bruce89> right
18:59:17  <Noldo> don't remember the exact syntax so you should check it
18:59:44  <bruce89> ./configure --enable-debug
18:59:55  <Belugas> bruce89, i cannot reopen fs1331.  i fear you should open a new one (which would make sens since it's not the same bug) or wait for Rubidium to be online
18:59:55  <Noldo> add =3
19:00:07  <bruce89> Belugas: right
19:00:11  <bruce89> Noldo: likeeise
19:02:37  <bruce89> Belugas: 1339
19:02:45  <Belugas> i've seen
19:02:47  <Belugas> thanks
19:03:07  <Belugas> it is shown on #openttd.notice
19:03:11  <bruce89> ah
19:07:26  <SmatZ> bruce89: do you have this problem on both windows and linux?
19:07:41  <bruce89> I don't know about the no music problem
19:07:56  <bruce89> certainly the old random music one was on both
19:08:17  <SmatZ> ah...
19:12:05  <bruce89> looking at
19:12:31  <bruce89> in the else, it only resets the music, it doesn't play it
19:12:39  <SmatZ> music doesn't work for me under linux...
19:12:57  <SmatZ> and I have this problems for so long time
19:13:10  <SmatZ> do I even forgot I could report this bug
19:14:25  <peterbrett> The sound & music are annoying anyway
19:14:38  <peterbrett> I always use the null sound device *shrug*
19:16:05  <SmatZ> :-)
19:16:08  <SmatZ> I like the sounds
19:16:13  <SmatZ> escpecially trains
19:16:29  <SmatZ> but the music - maybe is something wrong in my system
19:17:20  <glx> do you have timidity++ installed?
19:17:29  <SmatZ> yes, and timidity use flag
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19:26:51  <SmatZ> how can I use timidity ?
19:26:57  <SmatZ> I see only
19:27:09  <SmatZ> ./openttd -m
19:27:20  <SmatZ> extmidi: External MIDI Driver ; null: Null Music Driver\
19:27:35  <glx> extmidi is set in cfg
19:28:10  <SmatZ> what is 'extmidi'?
19:29:11  <glx> the external midi program, like timidity :)
19:29:31  <SmatZ> thanks :)
19:30:59  <SmatZ> timidity
19:31:02  <SmatZ> it plays the music
19:31:08  <SmatZ> but I cannot hear music in ottd
19:31:15  <SmatZ> looks like ottd problem...
19:31:57  * Sacro fancies pizza
19:33:54  <bruce89> I've done a bit of investigation
19:34:13  <bruce89> ResetMusic() is called a huge number of times on first start
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19:37:12  <Digitalfox> I don't understand much about codecs and encodings of videos.. But i just convert an 178MB AVI ( codec divx 5.0 ) to a 111MB AVI ( codec Xvid 6.0 ) and i don't see loss on image quality.. Is this normal shouldn't i see some image quality loss??
19:37:56  <Rubidium> Digitalfox: there is image quality loss, *but*
19:38:07  <Rubidium> computers usually display about 16 million colours
19:38:23  <Rubidium> humans can only distinguish about 2 million colours
19:38:49  <Rubidium> computers (or rather the displays) cannot display all of those 2 million colours
19:39:03  <bruce89> there will be a loss if you recompress an already compressed file
19:39:05  <Rubidium> and the image is moving, so you won't notice small changes either
19:39:50  <Digitalfox> Oh ok Rubidium i never thought about that point, and it does have logic.. So i guess i may reencode my videos collections.. If i gain 65MB on a file, then on GB of videos i'll win also GB of space :)
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19:42:38  <UnderBuilder> hehe I remember that I managed to run ottd on a p1 with 32mb of ram
19:43:09  <SmatZ> I was running TTD on 486/33 with 8MB :)
19:43:36  <SmatZ> bruce89: nice investigation
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19:43:59  <bruce89> really, it's only 2 printfs
19:44:11  <SmatZ> yes
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19:44:28  <SmatZ> but you was the first to do that 2 printfs :)
19:46:31  <bruce89> now all I need to do is fix it
19:46:36  <Sacro> we should s/^/printf $linenumber;/
19:46:42  <Sacro> that'd be useful for debugging
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19:53:20  <bruce89> _game_mode is 0
19:54:05  <bruce89> which it should be
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19:55:47  <glx> yes it's the menu :)
19:56:47  <SmatZ> glx: are you using Linux and music is working for you?
19:57:25  <glx> SmatZ: I'm not using linux
19:58:14  <SmatZ> :(
19:58:58  <bruce89> what's msf.playing supposed to be
19:59:11  <glx> a bool
19:59:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11269 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: user customisable faces. Patch by BigBB.
19:59:53  <bruce89> is it supposed to be true when starting
20:01:04  <Wolf01> yeah, faces patch
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20:02:13  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
20:05:38  <Sacro> oh noes, a Bjarni
20:06:39  * Wolf01 hides
20:06:56  * Bjarni hides
20:07:19  <Prof_Frink> 99..100
20:07:26  * Prof_Frink sees Wolf01
20:07:30  * Prof_Frink sees Bjarni
20:07:32  <Wolf01> doh
20:07:38  <Bjarni> you can't see me
20:07:41  <Bjarni> I'm hiding
20:07:52  <Prof_Frink> Lies.
20:08:03  * Prof_Frink awaits the inevitable
20:08:10  <Wolf01> uhm, assertion failed on faces.h
20:08:20  <Wolf01> *player_face.h
20:08:23  <Bjarni> doh
20:08:34  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: why did you wait for that?
20:08:50  <Prof_Frink> uh?
20:09:01  <Prof_Frink> You haven't kicked me...
20:09:11  <Bjarni> why should I do that?
20:09:29  <Prof_Frink> Well, it would effectively hide you from me.
20:09:34  * Rubidium slaps Wolf01... you should've tested it more!
20:09:43  <Rubidium> before I committed it ;)
20:09:53  <glx> lol
20:10:00  <Prof_Frink> Now, you have so socially engineer me to type /ignore Bjarni
20:10:18  <Prof_Frink> Except, as we know, engineers are not social creatures
20:10:32  <Bjarni> hahaha
20:10:43  <Bjarni> then you haven't met me
20:11:24  <Prof_Frink> Yes, engineers, as a rule, don't sing very loudly, very badly in Scottish pubs.
20:11:27  <Bjarni> well, some engineers aren't really social, but it's not a general thing
20:11:45  <Bjarni> well, I don't go to Scottish pubs
20:11:56  <Bjarni> and I don't sing very loudly either
20:12:02  <Bjarni> so I guess you have a point
20:12:11  <bruce89> hoy
20:12:26  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I take it you've heard the joke "What's the difference between an introvert engineer and an extrovert engineer?"
20:12:32  <Bjarni> but then again wouldn't it be bad to declare how engineers are based on a single engineer?
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20:13:11  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: But to solve that, you'd have to find a group of engineers
20:14:20  <Bjarni> actually I haven't
20:14:43  <Wolf01> for what unknown reason exists the face setting variable on openttd.cfg?
20:15:25  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: An introvert engineer looks at his feet when talking to you. An extrovert engineer looks at *your* feet.
20:15:39  <Bjarni> he
20:16:21  <Bjarni> I don't look at feet
20:16:37  <SmatZ> bruce89: I found, where the problem is for me - I can use one of sound or music, but not both of them
20:16:39  <Wolf01> the error is:
20:16:39  <Wolf01> assert: /foo/bar/player_face.h, line 102, val < _pf_info[pfv].valid_values[ge]
20:17:01  <glx> SmatZ: use a sound "server"
20:17:07  <bruce89> SmatZ: I was working on a different problem
20:17:21  <SmatZ> glx: what is that?
20:17:21  <bruce89> the fact that music doesn't start on OpenTTD starting
20:17:32  <SmatZ> bruce89: ah, yes...
20:17:42  <Wolf01> it occurs on new game generation, but not every time
20:17:48  <Bjarni> SmatZ: known issue on certain issues. I can't remember how to solve it though, but it looks like glx knows
20:18:04  <Wolf01> so i think is caused of a randome face generated on new game
20:18:15  <Bjarni> it has something to do with not allowing more than one app to talk to the sound card or something like that
20:18:16  <glx> there are some program to "share" a sound device
20:18:42  <SmatZ> Bjarni: most likely my system has some problems ... it happened some time ago, and I cannot use two programs with sound output :-/
20:18:53  <SmatZ> glx: thanks, I will try to solve it
20:19:03  <glx> esd is one of them
20:19:16  <bruce89> got it
20:19:33  <SmatZ> glx: what about alsa or oss?
20:19:40  <SmatZ> and arts?
20:19:48  <glx> arts is a bitch :)
20:19:54  <glx> never worked for me
20:20:10  <SmatZ> it doesn't work for me neither :)
20:20:15  <bruce89> PulseAudio
20:20:20  <Rubidium> Wolf01: can't reproduce it with like 20 tries
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20:23:02  <bruce89> should the music change when you go into a game from the menu?
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20:25:21  <SmatZ> bruce89: it should start to play random/first song of your playlist
20:25:29  <bruce89> hmm
20:25:29  <SmatZ> as I remember from TTD
20:26:25  <SmatZ> openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/player_face.h:102: void SetPlayerFaceBits(PlayerFace&, PlayerFaceVariable, GenderEthnicity, uint): Assertion `val < _pf_info[pfv].valid_values[ge]' failed.
20:26:35  <Wolf01> Rubidium, tried on debug?
20:26:40  <SmatZ> after loading first savegame I come to...
20:26:44  <SmatZ> do you want that save?
20:27:15  <Rubidium> Wolf01: I virtually never run without debug
20:27:32  <Wolf01> :D
20:28:10  <Wolf01> this is my cfg
20:28:20  <SmatZ> Rubidium: try to load this game, it crashes
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20:30:32  <SmatZ> buggy patches are accepted, but my are not :-/ that really decreases my mood
20:30:58  <Wolf01> s/buggy/popular :P
20:31:59  <Rubidium> SmatZ: as if every one of your patches has been absolutely bug free...
20:33:23  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11270 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix (r11269): black people only have one eye colour.
20:33:46  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: Reread the Patch Acceptance regs
20:33:59  <Prof_Frink> Specifically the "Sexual favours" section
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20:37:30  <skidd13> Hi again
20:38:10  <Wolf01> hi skidd13
20:39:46  <skidd13> I asked earlier today but didn't get any satisfying answer. Am I able to set defines by Configure or Makefile? (I'm thinking of the mersenne twister)
20:40:24  <Rubidium> yes, via CFLAGS you are
20:40:42  <Rubidium> but I wonder why you want to use mersenne
20:41:40  <skidd13> Rubidium: Why not. I like to try "hidden" parts of OTTD. ;) How is the syntax for the CFLAGS stuff?
20:41:57  <Rubidium> CFLAGS=-DMERSENNE
20:42:11  <Rubidium> either after ./configure or make
20:42:19  <skidd13> Thanks
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20:44:42  <skidd13> Rubidium: Checked the update of the update of FS1338?
20:45:01  <skidd13> Hmm one update too much :(
20:45:07  <Rubidium> nope
20:45:25  <dihedral> hello
20:45:30  <skidd13> hi
20:45:31  <Wolf01> Rubidium, it continues to assert
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20:48:11  <Rubidium> Wolf01, rule 1: make it easily reproducable for a dev, or easy to see where changes are needed.
20:49:00  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, does Rule 34 apply to openttd?
20:49:24  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11271 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix [FS#1333]: some (very) old games (TTD original scenarios for example) would give a new vehicle spree, even though the vehicles were introduced decades ago.
20:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Progman> can you confirm this? If you buy and engine and add a waggon which supports different cargos the "change cargo type" button get not updated (only half by a MarkDirty call from the money raising in the trains viewport) <- i can confirm that
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20:49:41  <Wolf01> more easy than this... it asserts every sin(3*pi) mod 5 times i try to make a new random game
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20:50:29  <mcbane> yes eddi it happens.
20:50:32  <Rubidium> every 0 times?
20:50:58  <Wolf01> i put an odd function
20:51:14  <SmatZ> is OTTD supposed to load all old ttdpatch games?
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20:51:30  <Wolf01> but i think that one of the four kinds of faces trigger the assertion
20:51:42  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: load: yes; load correct: not yet
20:52:55  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: ok... I am having an assert for some games... maybe the problem is somewhere else, too... openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/oldpool.h:113: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Vehicle]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
20:55:44  <Rubidium> SmatZ: line 1234 of oldloader.cpp I presume?
20:56:21  <dihedral> can i anywhere find text on what the aim of noai is and what still needs doing?
20:56:29  *** _Ben_ [~Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:59  <SmatZ> Rubidium: I am recompiling... maybe I used ttdalter for these games, too
20:57:07  <Rubidium> dihedral: ?
20:57:19  <bruce89> Ben_1: something funny has happened
20:58:13  <Ben_1> bruce89: whats that then?
20:58:24  <bruce89> your name
20:58:28  <dihedral> thanks Rubidium
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20:59:01  <_Ben_> sorted
21:02:04  <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, 1234 ... is it because of multiheaded trains?
21:02:12  <dihedral> Rubidium: that is documentation on how to write an ai using squirrel
21:02:39  <dihedral> i was more interested in finding out what still needs doing
21:02:49  <Rubidium> SmatZ: no, more TTDPs "lot of vehicles" thingy
21:03:24  <Rubidium> by default a few hundred vehicles are allocated, but now it needs more and by accident a vehicle references to another vehicle with a way higher index.
21:04:07  <SmatZ> Rubidium: so the number of "vehicle arrays" was not stored in ttdpatch games?
21:06:00  <Rubidium> I've got no idea
21:06:43  <Rubidium> does solve it?
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21:16:39  <Rubidium> SmatZ?
21:16:57  <Sacro> mmm
21:17:00  <SmatZ> Rubidium: looks so
21:17:08  <SmatZ> GetVehiclePoolSize() <= _old_next_ptr
21:17:14  <SmatZ> except this direction of comparison
21:17:20  <SmatZ> I was trying other savegames
21:17:26  <SmatZ> I had only 61 trains
21:17:38  <SmatZ> so if I didn't lose some after loading
21:21:50  <SmatZ> but probably not a 'perfect' patch
21:22:01  <SmatZ> one train seem to be missing its tail
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21:23:15  <Ailure> r11265  	maedhros  	2007-10-14 23:20:12 +0200 (Sun, 14 Oct 2007)  	2 lines
21:23:15  <Ailure> -Feature: Make more advanced rail types more expensive to build.
21:23:17  <Ailure> intresting
21:23:20  <Ailure> by how much though
21:23:44  <DaleStan> SmatZ, Rubidium: It is. It's even so documented in the savegame bible:
21:24:13  <bruce89> Ailure:
21:24:40  <Ailure> ah
21:25:06  <Ailure> 165->240->466
21:25:13  <Ailure> was just gonna compare ingame
21:25:14  <Ailure> nice
21:25:22  <Ailure> I guess monorail is inbetween :P
21:25:57  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:26:45  <Ailure> so now there's fnally a cost diffrence between regular and electrical railway
21:27:07  <Ailure> thaht was something I always thought was silly
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21:27:36  <Bjarni>'s%20Car%20Theft%20Pevention%201000.jpg <-- that's most likely the most efficient car thief protection that I have ever seen
21:27:41  <SmatZ> DaleStan: nice piece of text :)
21:27:42  <Bjarni> but... how do you get out? :)
21:27:49  <Ailure> haha
21:27:53  <Ailure> using a tesla coil
21:27:54  <SmatZ> :-D
21:27:55  <Ailure> nice
21:28:07  <Ailure> ...I think that's a tesla coil at least
21:28:07  <Ailure> bit hard to see
21:28:09  <Bjarni> it is
21:28:18  <Ailure> heh
21:28:31  <Bjarni> hint: the domain name is "tesla down under", so it's a tesla coil guy in Australia
21:28:35  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Not really
21:28:46  <Ailure> it so remind sme about the idea of a forcefield
21:28:53  <Prof_Frink> A couple of Prism Tanks and *boom*
21:28:54  <Ailure> excpet it's probably not strong enough to stop bullets
21:29:00  <Ailure> living things however :)
21:29:21  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: usually this will scare away car thiefs.... they know shit about electricity
21:29:40  <Prof_Frink> Or, indeed...
21:29:44  <Ailure> it reminds me about a car in a bond movie actually
21:29:46  <Prof_Frink> KIROV REPORTING
21:29:52  <Ailure> which zapped some people who tried to mess with Bond's car
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21:30:23  <Prof_Frink> What was he doing with a German car anyway??
21:30:43  <skidd13> I remember a guy in mexico who added a few flamethrowers to his car to protect him against robbery.
21:30:47  <Ailure> well
21:30:53  <Ailure> the car is basically a faraway cage
21:31:12  <Prof_Frink> skidd13: Was South Africa iirc
21:31:22  <skidd13> Could be
21:31:26  <Ailure> although the bolts only seem to touch the car on the front
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21:34:37  <Bjarni> <-- this is the guy who owns the car
21:34:48  <Bjarni> maybe he should find a safer hobby...
21:35:10  <Ailure> hobby?
21:35:19  <Ailure> After seeing that picture, I don't think it's a hobby anymore
21:35:21  <Ailure> it's a fetish of his
21:35:26  <Ailure> D:
21:35:32  <Bjarni> good point
21:35:33  <Prof_Frink> DO WANT.
21:35:39  <Bjarni> find a safer fetish then :P
21:37:29  <Sacro> i want a tesla coil
21:38:07  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: See, I'm in two minds.
21:38:08  <Ailure> mountain climbing maybe?
21:38:11  <Ailure> Where I live
21:38:21  <Ailure> there's always some danish falling down the mountains
21:38:29  <Prof_Frink> Tesla coil... railgun... tesla coil... railgun...
21:38:35  <Ailure> at Kullaberg
21:38:43  <Ailure> which is north of HöganÀs
21:38:51  <Bjarni> <--- o_O
21:38:58  <Ailure> almost became a little joke within our family
21:39:02  <Bjarni> now I go for the fetish explanation
21:39:07  <Ailure> haha
21:39:19  <Ailure> that must sting
21:39:37  <Bjarni> "Wetting my hand beforehand reduces the sensation to a mild prickle"
21:39:46  <Prof_Frink> Ailure: Not as much as...
21:39:47  <Sacro> oh aye ;)
21:40:16  <Bjarni> <Sacro> i want a tesla coil <-- no there is no doubt that it's a fetish thing
21:40:17  <Bjarni> :P
21:40:48  * Prof_Frink wants to build a railgun and mount it on a hovercraft
21:41:33  <Bjarni> but it's already full of eels...
21:41:36  <Sacro> oooh
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21:41:41  <Prof_Frink> Shoot stuff and run away at the same time!
21:41:49  <Sacro> a nailgun would be good against a hovercraft
21:41:50  <skidd13> Once we build a cheap railgun in physics lesson :). Shoot range was 1m.
21:41:57  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: That's the power supply
21:41:59  <Sacro> or maybe it'd just go PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT and accelerate away
21:42:31  <Bjarni> yeah a modern nailgun is likely better than a modern railgun against a hovercraft :D
21:43:33  <Bjarni> <-- nice camera setup... this is done with colour filters while exposing the picture. It's not modified at all after the picture is taken (or so he claims)
21:44:16  <Prof_Frink> He should build another personcage
21:44:29  <Prof_Frink> then he'd have a ZOMG MIND CONTROL DEVICE
21:44:42  <Bjarni> it's some sort of spinning wheel with glass of different colours in front of the lens... gives a nice result
21:45:10  <Bjarni> yeah... we should write an Email telling him to do a mind control picture
21:45:24  <Bjarni> but.... it's possible that he can't get anybody to join him in his fetish :P
21:45:28  <glx> <Ailure> the car is basically a faraway cage <-- Faraday
21:45:52  <Bjarni> far away cage.... not really the same as a Faraday cage :D
21:49:19  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Well, if he wants to sends me plane tickets
21:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> far far away?
21:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> like in shrek?
21:49:58  <bruce89> it is pretty far away
21:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's funny about that movie is that "Schreck" is actually a german word (meaning "scare")
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21:57:12  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: and you don't think they knew that when they decided on that name for a scary character?
21:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: i think they explained once that they took the word from jiddish, which has a lot in common with german
21:57:57  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Trillian (]
21:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> so yes, i am pretty sure they knew what the word meant :p
21:59:17  <skidd13> :q
21:59:27  <skidd13> damn wrong window
21:59:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> you trying to touch your nose with your tongue?
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22:00:10  <Bjarni> I think he wants to quit vim or something
22:00:22  <skidd13> yup: quit in vim
22:00:39  <skidd13> :%s /\://g
22:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> would have made a poor smilie anyway :p
22:01:09  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: cu]
22:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> (and of course i know how you quit vim)
22:01:59  <Prof_Frink> Ah, but do you know how to quit ed?
22:02:10  <Sacro> killall
22:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> what he said :p
22:02:21  <Ailure> [23:40] <Sacro> or maybe it'd just go PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT and accelerate away
22:02:38  <Ailure> my mind inserted a 0x before PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT
22:02:48  <Ailure> then I started to wonder when hexdecimal numbers had P and T
22:02:49  <bruce89> sudo rm -fr /
22:02:52  <Sacro> Ailure: that's not valid HEX :p
22:02:53  <bruce89> bloody silly
22:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> you want to read mail really fast? type rm -rf /
22:04:31  <Ailure> that so reminds me when I set up a box of some NIX
22:04:37  <Ailure> and I let friends of mine log into it
22:04:45  <Ailure> one of them tried rm -rf /
22:05:05  <bruce89> root?
22:05:06  <Ailure> didn't really do much damage though :)
22:05:10  <Ailure> hardly
22:05:12  <Bjarni> I don't think so
22:05:16  <Ailure> I don't give out root randomly
22:05:19  <Bjarni> that would have caused damage
22:05:28  <Ailure> he thought he would
22:05:36  <Bjarni> this is a reason why I don't give out ssh access to random people
22:05:50  <bruce89> it would just kill out their ~ surely
22:05:51  <Ailure> it wasn't a exactly bright NIX user
22:05:58  <Ailure> he thought it would delete all files
22:06:27  <Ailure> he actiually complained
22:06:29  <Ailure> about it not working
22:06:35  <Ailure> he didn't have many files in his own home folder
22:06:38  <Ailure> so yeah :P
22:07:09  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, you should write a script that, if someone tries rm -rf / it removes them from /etc/passwd and logs them out
22:07:48  <Ailure> well hardly foolproof
22:07:55  <Ailure> since there's more than one way
22:07:58  <Ailure> you can just go down to root
22:08:02  <Ailure> and type rm -rf * instead
22:08:32  <Prof_Frink> or dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda
22:09:05  <Ailure> haha
22:09:14  <bruce89> or sda of course
22:09:15  <Ailure> filling the harddrive with random bytes
22:09:25  <Ailure> I seen variations on that
22:09:28  <Prof_Frink> or, for nondestructive annoyance, chmod -R -x /
22:10:26  <Phazorx> if if not all tiles of foodplant
22:10:35  <Phazorx> that accept grain also accept livestock is that normal?
22:10:36  * Prof_Frink smiles. :(){ :|:& };:
22:11:59  <SpComb> grab a and try it out
22:12:25  <SpComb> /dev/kmem is kind of amusing in sick way
22:12:28  <bruce89> bugger, too late
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22:14:36  <SpComb> a virtual linux box, root access and at least 20 minutes
22:14:39  <SpComb> you even have network access
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22:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: what's the point? you just grab the next knoppix cd, and restor all the x'es
22:16:02  <SpComb> all the right x'es
22:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, all the ones in a "bin" directoryy
22:16:43  <skidd13> and all dir x'es of cause
22:17:07  <SpComb> and all of the other random x'es in e.g. /etc/init.d/ or such
22:17:15  <SpComb> it would cause a bit of pain
22:17:41  <Sacro> Ailure: as we pointed out to a uni lecturer rm -fr / won't do much
22:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can easily walk all files beginning with #!
22:17:56  <Sacro> or will it remove all files and just leave dirs
22:18:06  * Sacro ponders over his putty window
22:18:20  <SmatZ> \rm -rf /
22:18:26  <Ailure> won't do much? :P
22:18:30  <SmatZ> would be nicer, if you have rm aliased
22:18:31  <Sacro> /exec rm -rf /
22:18:33  <Prof_Frink> Or fix enough for your package manager to run, then reinstall from there
22:18:44  <Sacro> pacman.static!
22:18:45  <Ailure> last time I tried it, I destroyed the system :)
22:18:47  <Ailure> well I ran it from root
22:18:51  <Ailure> and it was a vm too
22:18:55  <Ailure> so I didn't really care too much
22:18:56  * Sacro forkbombs
22:19:14  <Prof_Frink> How smiley.
22:19:22  * SpComb plays with
22:19:24  <SmatZ> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1024
22:19:24  * Sacro forkbums pro
22:19:27  * Sacro forkbums Prof_Frink
22:19:29  <SmatZ> will do the job, too
22:19:31  <Ailure> it's even more fun with Windows though
22:19:45  <Sacro> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/core
22:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> that'll be fun... replace ldd with rm -rf /
22:19:53  <SmatZ> :)
22:19:54  <Ailure> I keep forgetting the windows equilant of rm -rf though
22:19:56  <SmatZ> lol
22:19:57  *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:19:59  <Ailure> but it's much slower in Windows
22:20:01  <Sacro> Ailure: deltree
22:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> good luck installing any package :p
22:20:07  <Prof_Frink> Ailure: del /F /S /Q *
22:20:07  <Ailure> not deltree
22:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> deltree /y
22:20:10  *** UnderBuilder_ is now known as UnderBuilder
22:20:11  <Ailure> deltree dosen't exist in Windows
22:20:11  <Ailure> ah yes
22:20:12  <Ailure> that
22:20:13  <Ailure> eh
22:20:15  <Ailure> Windows NT
22:20:15  <Ailure> that is
22:20:18  <Ailure> it exists in Win 9x
22:20:23  <Sacro> del doesn't exist in windows either
22:20:30  <Bjarni> I don't get it
22:20:32  <Sacro> nooo ><
22:20:35  <Bjarni> why not solve the real problem
22:20:37  <Sacro> deltree is dos 6.2x
22:20:47  <Ailure> Which Win 9x is based on yeah
22:20:51  <Bjarni> why delete files rather than go buy a bigger HD?
22:21:07  <Ailure> Win 9X is basically DOS hacked to run with GUI ;)
22:21:10  * Sacro fancies some simsig
22:21:23  <SmatZ> once I had 6 IDE ports used...
22:21:34  <Prof_Frink> and Win ME is basically Win 9x hacked not to run.
22:21:38  <SmatZ> there is no way to buy more HDDs forever
22:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never had 6 ide ports (in the same computer)
22:21:44  <Tefad> someone using archlinux?
22:21:58  <Prof_Frink> sacro.
22:22:01  <Sacro> me
22:22:05  <Prof_Frink> him
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22:23:40  <Ailure> I only seen one computer
22:23:40  <Ailure> ever
22:23:43  <Ailure> to run Windows ME
22:24:05  * Prof_Frink shows Ailure his parents PC
22:24:14  *** mcbane [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:24:34  <Ailure> hell I can name lots of other OS's
22:24:38  <Ailure> I seen more of than Windwos me
22:24:43  <Prof_Frink> Also, James' PC runs ME2.0
22:24:50  <Ailure> and also weird OS's
22:24:56  <Ailure> Win NT 4.0 on a ATM?
22:25:04  <Ailure> or what about OS WARP?
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22:25:27  <Ailure> that's is probably one of the funniest experiences I had at a bank
22:25:31  <Ailure> I was going to withdraw money
22:25:34  <Ailure> I walked up to the ATM
22:25:38  <Ailure> ...which showed Win 4.0 GUI
22:25:42  <Ailure> NT
22:25:44  <Ailure> that is
22:25:54  <Tefad> heh. yay kiosks?
22:26:06  <Ailure> I probably would try if I could mess around lol
22:26:12  <Ailure> but it's hard with the keypad of an ATM
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22:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had a scary meeting with an ATM also
22:26:23  <Tefad> where's ctrl alt or del ; )
22:26:27  <Prof_Frink> Ailure: Undo the four screws to the right
22:26:28  <bruce89> I didn't think Windows needed hacking to not run
22:26:34  <Prof_Frink> Tefad: See ^
22:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> i wanted to check my bank account, put my card in
22:26:47  <Tefad> heh
22:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> the terminal said something like "internal error"
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22:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> and rebooted
22:26:56  <Tefad> nice one
22:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> showing a Win2k boot screen
22:27:09  <SmatZ> what happened to the card?
22:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> still having my card in it
22:27:16  <Ailure> I remember seeing Win NT 4.0 booting screen
22:27:17  <Tefad> doh
22:27:20  <Ailure> on the same ATM
22:27:22  <Ailure> at another time though
22:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it spit it out after a while
22:27:40  <Tefad> winnt is rather common for embedded crap
22:27:41  <Ailure> I'm really not sure
22:27:43  <Tefad> or OS/2
22:27:46  <Ailure> if I should trust the bank using Win NT
22:27:49  <Ailure> for embedded stuff
22:27:50  <Ailure> well
22:27:58  <Ailure> sometimes they apparently run really old computers on that stuff
22:28:04  <Ailure> but I wonder why they don't use specialized stuff
22:28:06  <Ailure> srsly
22:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think the terminal is really embedded
22:28:13  <Tefad> uh yeah.. P166 32MB for the win
22:28:13  <Ailure> I can program a ATM quickly on a microcontroller
22:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean it has a keyboard to type in bank transfer data and stuff
22:28:23  <Ailure> it would be more power-saving and secure
22:28:27  <Tefad> Ailure: easy upgrade path?
22:28:31  <Ailure> than programmig a Win NT application
22:28:33  <Tefad> as if they'd use it
22:28:33  <Prof_Frink> Or, go up to the machine, withdraw £10 and stuff a knoppix disc into the cash dispenser
22:28:35  <SpComb>  hmm... why would dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/ubd/0 kill my ssh connection?
22:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm pretty sure it runs a normal x68 PC inside it
22:28:40  <Tefad> easy development ; )
22:29:01  <Ailure> ATM's usually use old computers
22:29:05  <Ailure> since they don't need anything more powerful
22:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> the sad thing, the terminal is missing the most important keys to use windows :p
22:29:12  <Ailure> sometimes refurbished even
22:29:17  <Ailure> cheap bastards
22:29:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: CTRL+ALT+DELETE, indeed
22:29:24  <Prof_Frink> Tefad: How do you know what hardware I'm running?
22:30:12  <Ailure>
22:30:12  <Ailure> :)
22:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd be so fun to see them catch anyone playing solitaire on a bank terminal :p
22:30:25  <Ailure> whenever someone asks about my hardware
22:30:30  <Ailure> I just point them there
22:30:32  <Ailure> haha yes
22:30:34  <Tefad> Prof_Frink: huh?
22:30:37  <Ailure> sadly that would get them so nto trouble
22:30:39  <Ailure> and argh
22:30:43  <Ailure> ignore my network devices
22:30:50  <Ailure> some bug always causes it to have screwy values
22:30:50  <SmatZ> Ailure: nice
22:30:53  <Prof_Frink> Tefad: "P166 32MB"
22:30:57  <Tefad> yes?
22:30:59  <Tefad> what about it
22:31:05  <Ailure> Device  	Received  	Sent  	Err/Drop
22:31:05  <Ailure> NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller - Packet Scheduler Miniport 	1.67 GB 	-240136.01 KB 	0/0
22:31:13  * SpComb tries again
22:31:18  <Ailure> I sent a negative amount of bytes
22:31:20  <Ailure> somehow
22:31:24  <Prof_Frink> That's what "this" computer is.
22:31:34  <SmatZ> you have DL > UL
22:31:41  <SmatZ> mm no
22:31:53  <Ailure> the stats are way off too
22:31:58  <Ailure> I have downloaded much more than easily
22:32:05  <Ailure> *thna that
22:32:08  <SmatZ> RX bytes:5242383144 (4999.5 Mb)
22:32:09  <Ailure> so it probably have rolled over a few times
22:32:15  <SmatZ> 5000th anniversary coming :)
22:32:57  <TrueBrain>           Aug '07   194,970 MB  | 1,558,276 MB  | 1,753,246 MB
22:32:57  <TrueBrain>           Sep '07 17,592,186,002,452 MB  | 17,592,185,515,890 MB  | 35,184,371,518,343 MB
22:32:57  <TrueBrain>           Oct '07   128,948 MB  | 1,279,165 MB  | 1,408,113 MB
22:33:01  <TrueBrain> talking about bugs in stats collectors
22:33:11  <Ailure> haha
22:33:21  <SmatZ> nice traffic at September
22:33:36  <SmatZ> anyway... 1,5TB is a lot, too
22:33:38  <Tefad> holy son of a
22:33:43  <Ailure> did you download the whole internet
22:33:47  <SmatZ> :)
22:33:54  <Tefad> he downloaded an internet.
22:33:58  <TrueBrain> haha, okay, but the 1.5 is real :p
22:34:09  <Ailure> well
22:34:24  <Prof_Frink> What happened? Get /.ed?
22:34:27  <Tefad> i think i've got 1.25TB transfer since may on home connection
22:34:39  <Ailure> terabytes is getting more and more common
22:34:43  <SmatZ> :)
22:34:45  <Ailure> once upon a time, a gigabyte was actually alot
22:34:45  <TrueBrain> what happened? a 100 mbit, that happened :p Never give students 100 mbit connections
22:34:48  <TrueBrain> bad for bandwidth
22:34:54  <Tefad> heh
22:35:02  <Tefad> i remember my first computer upgrade
22:35:04  <Ailure> so what did you do
22:35:06  <Tefad> 1.6GB addon
22:35:15  <Ailure> download 10 movies at once or something
22:35:15  <Tefad> 8MB RAM was killing me too though
22:35:26  <Ailure> heh
22:35:30  <Ailure> my first computer upgrade
22:35:38  <Ailure> was a harddrive around that size
22:35:45  <TrueBrain> Ailure: you need more then 10 movies to get this volume of bandwidth :p
22:35:48  <Ailure> boy it felt like a huge improvment from my measly 300 MB drive
22:35:50  <Tefad> sadly i think my two first disks are near death
22:35:54  <bruce89> hope you've got a 64 bit OS there
22:35:55  <Tefad> 400MB first disk here
22:35:58  <TrueBrain> /dev/sdb1             298G  241G   58G  81% /data/extern
22:35:58  <TrueBrain> /dev/sdc1             466G  418G   48G  90% /data/extern2
22:35:58  <TrueBrain> /dev/sdd1             466G  124G  343G  27% /data/extern3
22:36:01  <TrueBrain> nuff said
22:36:01  <Tefad> pentium 60MHz woo
22:36:25  <SmatZ> /dev/hde1            196015808 115221152  80794656  59% /mnt/200gb
22:36:25  <SmatZ> /dev/hdg1            288451232 278109776  10341456  97% /mnt/300gb
22:36:25  <SmatZ> /dev/hdc1            480719088 248254596 232464492  52% /mnt/500gb
22:36:28  <SmatZ> ;-)
22:36:32  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: run -h
22:36:34  <TrueBrain> easier to read
22:36:44  <TrueBrain> anyway, night
22:36:45  <SmatZ> nice
22:37:00  <Tefad> i use -xtmpfs -h for good measure
22:37:14  <Tefad> silly udev shm nonsense
22:37:22  <SmatZ> :)
22:37:36  <Prof_Frink> /dev/hda2              28G   12G   15G  45% /
22:37:36  <Prof_Frink> /dev/hda1              89M  9.7M   74M  12% /boot
22:37:46  <Sacro> *coughs* sad
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22:38:35  <skidd13> good night
22:38:39  <SmatZ> bye
22:38:40  <Ailure> heh
22:38:49  <Ailure> I already showed my discs earlier with my system utility
22:38:55  <Ailure> really need to get around migrating to Linux
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22:38:59  <Ailure> already did that on my laptop really
22:39:08  <SmatZ> Distro Name   Microsoft Windows XP Professional
22:39:11  <SmatZ> errr :-D
22:39:15  <Ailure> I really have no excuse staying with Windows anymore
22:39:16  <Ailure> haha
22:39:37  <Ailure> I didn't notice that earlier
22:39:49  <Ailure> but it's a bit Linux-biased utility I guess
22:39:58  <SmatZ> looks so
22:40:00  <Ailure> like how it refers the discs as "mounted filesystems"
22:40:02  <Prof_Frink> Dammit, refused uplink to the umcr
22:40:21  <Ailure> which even is correct, mount is something Windows NT would avoid to use ;
22:40:22  <Ailure> ;)
22:42:34  <Tefad> Ailure: if you like ubuntu, you can easily give it a whir using "Wubi" installer
22:42:46  <Tefad> whirl? whir meh
22:42:52  <Ailure> I know about Wubi heh
22:43:00  <Ailure> seems intresting, but perfomance concerns me
22:43:01  <Sacro> Tefad: why the arch q?
22:43:07  <Ailure> still, I am slightly afraid of repartioning
22:43:12  <Tefad> Sacro: just to make you worry.
22:43:16  <Sacro> Tefad: i don't worry
22:43:17  <Ailure> even if I succefully did that on my laptop
22:43:18  <Sacro> i be happy
22:43:20  * Prof_Frink bed
22:43:27  <Tefad> Ailure: wubi doesn't suffer much from performance
22:43:31  <Sacro> not too many pax trains at 00:30 :(
22:43:34  <Tefad> it's like maybe 5% overhead if that
22:43:37  <Ailure> heh
22:43:45  <Prof_Frink> o it properly!
22:43:47  <Ailure> kinda funny how it works though
22:43:50  <Tefad> yup
22:43:56  <Ailure> it creates a virtual disk image within Windows
22:44:01  <Tefad> you can even access your windows files easily from within ubuntu
22:44:01  <Ailure> then boots from that
22:44:05  <Tefad> using ntfs-3g
22:44:14  <Ailure> heh
22:44:21  <Ailure> the inbuilt NTFS driver in Ubuntu
22:44:25  *** gfldex_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44:33  <Ailure> is read-only by default, but there's other you can get
22:44:34  <Tefad> ntfs-3g is quite stable, i think it's even possible to use it as rootfs in linux
22:44:36  <bruce89> which gusty has by default
22:44:43  <bruce89> Tefad: no
22:44:43  <Ailure> like ntfs-3g
22:44:45  <SmatZ>
22:44:55  <Tefad> bruce89: i think so. initrd.
22:45:03  <bruce89> symbolic links wouldn't work in NTFS anyway
22:45:12  <bruce89> it'd be a bit daft
22:45:26  <Tefad> i use them all the time at work
22:45:27  <Sacro> bruce89: ntfs *has* symbolic links
22:45:29  <Tefad> with SFU
22:45:31  <Ailure> I thought it have symlinks
22:45:33  <Ailure> eh
22:45:35  <Ailure> yeah
22:45:42  <bruce89> it does now
22:45:43  <Ailure> it's not widely known
22:45:43  <Sacro> since... XP i belive
22:45:44  <Ailure> however
22:45:45  <SmatZ> I wonder how I can redirect ONE HTML file to another computer in the network..
22:45:49  <Sacro> bruce89: has for ages
22:45:53  <Ailure> reason they implemented symlinks
22:45:57  <bruce89> I was sure it was a Vista thing
22:46:02  <Sacro> nope
22:46:04  <Ailure> was mostly for POSIX complience
22:46:07  <bruce89> anyway, permissions wouldn't work
22:46:07  <Tefad> aka Interix, aka Services for UNIX, or Subsystem for Unix Applications
22:46:23  <Sacro> oh, no
22:46:25  <Ailure> since it's rather hidden away from most WIndows users
22:46:32  <bruce89> the installer wouldn't let you install on a NTFS partition
22:46:33  <Sacro> they had "junction points" since ntfs 3
22:46:33  <Ailure> the commandline in Windwos isn't exactly nice
22:46:53  <glx> <SmatZ> <-- nice link ;)
22:46:53  <Ailure> so I didn't know about it for the longest time either
22:46:58  <Prof_Frink> Cygwin!
22:46:59  <Ailure> ah yes
22:47:04  <Ailure>
22:47:07  <Ailure> that bastard
22:47:07  <Tefad> cygwin is crap compared to SFU : \
22:47:13  <Ailure> I DDoS him at times
22:47:17  <Ailure> but he always manage to counter-attack
22:47:19  <Tefad> meh, i guess Interix is the generic term
22:47:36  <Tefad> (OpenNT Interix SFU SUA .. erghaspdoflkajsd)
22:48:16  <Tefad> bruce89: permissions work fine.. NTFS has ACLs
22:48:21  <Tefad> eh?
22:48:40  <bruce89> try installing a Linux on NTFS then
22:48:52  *** egladil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48:56  <bruce89> there would be no advantage, if it were possible
22:49:17  <Tefad>
22:49:30  <Sacro> oh god
22:49:36  <Sacro> this train is actually an engineering trains
22:49:41  <Tefad> actually NTFS performs better than ext3 : \
22:49:42  <Sacro> that hogs the line for 4 hours D:
22:49:49  <bruce89> hmm
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22:49:51  <Tefad> and is competitive with other linux FSs
22:50:01  <bruce89> ext4
22:50:06  <SmatZ> glx this is a better link :) sadly, it is "offline"
22:50:11  <Ailure> NTFS isn't exactly a bad filesystem
22:50:15  <Ailure> it just have a bad OS inbetween ;)
22:50:30  <bruce89> WUBI looks like a nasty hack to me
22:50:37  <Sacro> wubi?
22:50:41  <Tefad>
22:50:45  <Ailure> I think WUBI is a neat hack
22:50:57  <Tefad> Wubi is an unofficial ubuntu installer
22:50:57  <Ailure> File I/O in Windows is a bit slow
22:51:01  <Ailure> but it seems to be becuse of Windows itself
22:51:03  <Ailure> than NTFS
22:51:16  <Ailure> batch tasks
22:51:17  <Ailure> takes lots longer time in Windows
22:51:22  <Ailure> than Linux
22:51:43  * bruce89 formats drive to NTFS
22:51:49  * Tefad laughs
22:51:58  <Tefad> there are some corner cases to watch out for
22:52:12  <Tefad> most of the time they rear their head when the FS is near capacity
22:52:25  <Tefad> heads, meh
22:52:34  <Ailure> rear head?
22:52:34  <Ailure> what
22:52:41  <Tefad> rear heads.
22:52:47  <Tefad> uh meaning pop up
22:52:49  <Ailure> heads as in?
22:52:55  <Tefad> it's an expression
22:52:57  <Ailure> HD heads?
22:52:58  <Ailure> oh
22:53:01  <Ailure> ...hahaha
22:53:07  <Ailure> never heard of that one D:
22:53:14  <Tefad> to rear a head
22:53:17  <Tefad> to pop up
22:53:18  * Tefad shrugs
22:53:25  <bruce89> rears ugly head
22:53:26  <glx> it's faster for me to compile openttd in vmware running mandriva64 on XP than using mingw :)
22:53:38  <bruce89> of course
22:53:40  <Tefad> glx: that's a threadding problem i think
22:53:43  <Tefad> use SFU instead ; )
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22:53:50  <Tefad> damnit, interix.
22:53:54  <Ailure> still
22:54:00  <Ailure> NTFS-3G will be useful
22:54:08  <Ailure> hell I gotta get around using it on my laptop
22:54:15  <glx> Tefad: I'd say it's a windows problem :)
22:54:18  <Ailure> kinda sucks with my NTFS parittions being read-only
22:54:33  <Tefad> glx: well you're not using the accepted UNIX environment for the platform.
22:54:39  <Tefad> you're going to run into problems : )
22:54:57  <Tefad> not saying that interix is the end all be all, but it performs rather well
22:57:16  <Tefad> i think you can compile mingw under interix, then use it to create binaries from there
22:57:47  * bruce89 thinks there are too many *ixs
22:57:57  <Tefad> i think there isn't a proper OS yet.
22:58:01  <Tefad> and there probably will never be
22:58:11  <Tefad> the POSIX standard is nice to have though
22:58:23  <glx> well I don't make win32 builds in the VM :)
22:58:25  <Ailure> Most operating systems are based on POSIX
22:58:31  <Ailure> Even Win NT
22:58:34  <Tefad> eh
22:58:38  <glx> wrong
22:58:42  <Ailure> although it's probably the one being the most diffrent from it
22:58:42  <Tefad> most operating systems were designed with posix in mind, maybe
22:58:51  <glx> NT miss a lot of POSIX stuff
22:58:58  <Tefad> glx: interix fixes that
22:58:58  <Ailure> Windows NT only did enough to cover the most obligatory stuf
22:59:32  <Bjarni> goodnight
22:59:33  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:59:40  <Tefad> bare minimum to statisfy government contracts requiring posix compliant OS...
23:00:09  <Ailure> mm
23:00:15  <Ailure> stupid how goverments can be fooled so easily
23:00:17  <Ailure> any UNIX user
23:00:30  <Ailure> can see right away that Win NT is hardly anything like POSIX for the most part
23:00:30  <Tefad> POSIX != UNIX
23:00:36  <Ailure> I know
23:00:38  <Ailure> but heh
23:00:41  <Tefad> heh
23:00:44  <Ailure> It derives so much that it's almost useless
23:09:20  *** Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:10:20  <Sacro`> grr
23:15:17  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16:32  *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
23:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... i believe i found a time warp or something
23:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> the steel mill is converting steel from ore that has not been fully unloaded yet
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23:42:22  <SmatZ> the iron ore was duped_
23:42:23  <SmatZ> ?
23:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's just counted when the train arrives, not when it actually unloads
23:45:46  <SmatZ> sometimes trains don't unload whole cargo, because it stops being accepted
23:45:53  <SmatZ> but earns the money
23:45:55  <SmatZ> i think
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