Log for #openttd on 29th October 2007:
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00:00:15  <fjb> No, that is no bug in OpenTTD. It is a problem how road vehicles work in TTD.
00:00:18  <Bjarni> if you are lucky then you will gain an awesome new feature
00:00:25  <Bjarni> but odds are that it will not work
00:00:31  <fjb> No, I think I knew what I did.
00:00:46  <fjb> Some thinks I did wrong first. :-)
00:01:23  <fjb> The dutch tram set and long vehicles 4 have somne problems with each other.
00:02:38  <fjb> LV4 sets a multiplier for all costs. The trams get very expensiv. Some of the trams an some truck from LV4 are using the same vehicle id.
00:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> complete vehicle sets were never meant to be compatible with each other...
00:04:04  <fjb> I made a patch for the nfo file of the tram set. The pacht divides all costs by the value George uses in his LV4 and I moved some trams to other ids.
00:04:42  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: I don't mind. I just did an awfull hack to make them compatible. :-)
00:04:48  <Ammlller> yeah, Foobar said, he will make his set compatible with 4lv
00:05:36  <fjb> I didn't want to wait that long. So I read a bit of the nfo documentation and got some hints from Dale Stan.
00:05:59  <fjb> The trams are just too cute. I had to have them in the game. :-)
00:06:33  <fjb> Now some people bug me to release the modified grf, but the licence forbids that.
00:06:49  <Ammlller> just pm it
00:07:09  <Ammlller> or ask foobar
00:07:32  <Ammlller> I guess he would give you the permission until he has its own fix
00:08:12  <fjb> Somebody in the german forum wantedt to change the grf. I told him what I had done and I released the diff of the nfo file. And I wrote a description how to patch the grf-. But the guy doesn't understand how to do it...
00:08:37  <fjb> Pm ist kind of release, I guess.
00:09:09  <Ammlller> hmm, distribute with grf and readme is allowed I thing
00:09:17  <fjb> The funny thing is that the guy had the plan to manipulte the grf. And now he is unable to use the ready made kit. :-)
00:09:35  <Ammlller> including it in the pack like #openttdcoop pack isn't
00:09:46  <Ammlller> thats what I have done :)
00:10:06  <Ammlller> but he gave me permission today...
00:10:33  <fjb> The licence states:
00:10:33  <fjb> This new grapics set is delivered 'as is' and comes without warranty of any kind.
00:10:33  <fjb> This new grapics set is intended for personal use and may not be used for commercial purposes.
00:10:35  <fjb> Use of (parts of) this new graphics set in other graphics sets is not allowed without prior written permission of the authors.
00:10:37  <fjb> Third party distribution of this new graphics set is restricted to redistribution of the original package containing (and only containing) unmodified versions of dutrmsxx.grf, DutchTramSetW_rxx.grf and README.txt (this file).
00:10:39  <fjb> Distribution in GRF Packages is not allowed without prior written permission of the authors.
00:11:13  <Ammlller> a 2. last
00:11:27  <fjb> Only the distribution of the unmodified grf is allowed.
00:11:43  <Ammlller> ok
00:12:16  <Ammlller> did he comment your patch?
00:12:18  <fjb> I can only release the diff and tell the people how to aply that. And that is really easy.
00:12:33  <fjb> No, didn't say anything about it.
00:12:45  <Ammlller> but you could make the diff that it is useable with or without 4lv
00:12:52  <fjb> But he must know about it. He wrote in both treads.
00:13:20  <fjb> I could if I could. :-)
00:13:37  <fjb> I just started to read the nfo documnetation yesterday.
00:13:37  <Ammlller> imo, you can just add all your new lines to the end
00:14:08  <fjb> I even don't know how to if LV4 is loaded yet.
00:14:19  <Ammlller> and then make a break if 4lv not loaded
00:14:25  <Ammlller> action 7
00:14:32  <fjb> I only don't know if it is possible to move the ids or change the costs based on that.
00:15:06  <fjb> I have toread more of the documentation.
00:15:10  <Ammlller>
00:15:30  <fjb> I had some funny bugs yesterday. A tram pulling a truck trailer. :-)
00:16:02  <fjb> I will enhace the patch the next days.
00:16:17  <Ammlller> fjb:
00:16:27  <fjb> It initially was just intended for me to have both sets in the game. :-)
00:16:47  <Ammlller> nothing2.grf checkes if nothing.grf is loaded
00:17:54  <fjb> Funny.
00:18:05  <fjb> Ok.
00:18:13  <Ammlller> :)
00:19:28  <fjb> I should learn nfo aniway.
00:20:23  <Ammlller> fjb: grf2html is also helpful
00:20:55  <fjb> I didn't get it to compile with Free Pascal yet.
00:21:09  <Ammlller> ah yeah, I recall
00:21:48  <Ammlller> I have made HTML pages of all GRFs in the pack, if you are interested
00:21:48  <fjb> Why do people always use strange things like Delphy or C++? :-)
00:22:14  <fjb> Tat would really be interesting.
00:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause> use brainfuck?  :p
00:22:43  <fjb> Oh no...
00:23:44  <fjb> Everybody chases buffer overflows an segmantation faults. They would not happen with modern programming tools.
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00:24:36  <Ammlller> But then we had still to play with 256 map
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00:24:57  <fjb> Why that?
00:25:20  <Ammlller> they use much more resources
00:25:22  <Ammlller> ?
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00:27:19  <fjb> Not much.
00:27:52  <fjb> They will never loose a pointer, so they will never loose some memory.
00:28:33  <fjb> Try it with C. Make a loop, allocate memory and never free it. :-)
00:28:50  <fjb> Try to do that with Eiffel. :-) :-)
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00:31:06  <fjb> 1, 2, 3,... :-)
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00:31:12  *** III is now known as Ammler
00:32:06  <Ammler> I & II have been registered
00:32:12  <Ammler> but III is mine
00:32:28  <fjb> :-)
00:33:15  <Ammler> hmm
00:33:49  *** Ammler is now known as l
00:34:08  <fjb> People don't like diffs...
00:34:20  *** l is now known as |
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00:35:40  <fjb> Action 6 looks usefull.
00:35:41  <]> How do you mean?
00:35:48  *** NuHoerAberMalAufMitDemBloedsin is now known as Eddi|zuHause
00:35:49  *** ] is now known as Ammler
00:36:02  <Ammler> ok :)
00:36:10  <Eddi|zuHause> one letter short :p
00:36:15  <Ammler> ist fÃŒr den Gamerserver
00:36:16  <fjb> Nobody did a download of my errorfree patch.
00:36:38  <Ammler> fjb: das habe ich gesehen, das werde ich bestimmt ausprobieren
00:36:59  <Ammler> wenn du bis dahin noch keine "unabhÀngige" version gemacht hast :)
00:37:55  <Eddi|zuHause> this is still an english channel...
00:38:07  <Ammler> oh sry
00:38:11  <fjb> I knew somebody would say that. :-)
00:38:30  <Ammler> was on a german channel...
00:38:33  <fjb> I will work on a better version, but that will last some days.
00:38:48  <fjb> or take some days
00:39:02  <Ammler> but is nice, it was a german speaker who said it...
00:39:51  <Ammler> same on coop, sometimes we are 3-4 germans and speak english
00:40:42  <Ammler> thats why I like to fix the english flag
00:41:26  <fjb> At least germans understand my german kind of english. :-)
00:41:34  *** Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|Work
00:42:29  <Ammler> in Australia is morning...
00:42:50  <Ammler> they already began to work...
00:43:14  <fjb> I didn't even begin to slepp.
00:44:06  * AntB wonders what sleep is
00:44:19  <fjb> Ants never sleep. :-)
00:44:27  <AntB> :P
00:45:35  <fjb> Does everybody write nfo files by hand?
00:47:21  <AntB> no idea
00:49:06  <fjb> I always wondered why it takes that long to enhace a grf. Now I know...
00:49:23  <Ammler> fjb: mostly but with help of makefiles
00:49:56  <Ammler> and maybe GRFMaker
00:49:57  * AntB has never used a makefile (i think)
00:50:21  <Ammler> hmm, me too
00:50:25  <AntB> all i got is Notepad2, GRF Codec and NFO Renum
00:50:29  <fjb> Hm, better use m4. :-)
00:50:54  <AntB> NFO Renum not being as much help as i expected... but maybe thats due to my not knowing GRF too well
00:51:18  <Ammler> Madhros published his dev pack for industrie Stations, maybe that shows you, how they do that...
00:51:39  <fjb> Oh, where did he publish it?
00:51:48  <Ammler> in the thread
00:52:23  <Ammler> its one of the top threads in graphic atm
00:53:51  <Bjarni> Ammler: please post that savegame as a bug report
00:54:58  <Ammler> oh, yeah I will
00:56:00  <Bjarni> lol, I just got an email with a subject about president Bush's visit to California... when I opened it (I really wondered what this was about) it was a standard viagra salesspeech
00:56:22  <Bjarni> now they are using Bush to sell viagra... how low can you go? :D
00:56:37  <AntB> lol
00:57:08  <fjb> :-)
00:57:39  <fjb> Who reads things about Bush? :-)
00:57:52  <fjb> Ammler: This thread?
00:59:19  <Bjarni> <fjb> Who reads things about Bush? :-) <-- some people voted for him. You know if just 5% of the people who voted for him might buy this based on this mail, then they will see to a few people for every 1000 mails they send
00:59:29  <Bjarni> which is fairly good for spam mail
00:59:51  <Bjarni> remember that they don't expect many people to reply to those mails
01:00:38  <fjb> I know... Thats why they make big money even if less than one percent of the people buy it.
01:01:11  <Bjarni> it's crazy that anybody will buy what they sell
01:01:29  <Bjarni> there is a bash quote about a mail that sells penis enlargement pills for dogs
01:01:34  <Bjarni> wtf
01:01:41  <fjb> :-)
01:01:43  <AntB> lmao!
01:01:58  <AntB> these guys will do anything for money :D
01:02:43  <Bjarni> I like the one I once got about radiation protection pills
01:02:59  <AntB> ok... XD
01:03:00  <fjb> The TTD world looks to be a very dangerous place. Every town builds a prison...
01:03:10  <Bjarni> according to that mail, the risk of a nuclear accident is extreme but the government is hiding that fact
01:03:18  <fjb> Hey, I want that funny spam too. :-)
01:03:39  <Bjarni> and if it happens then everybody who didn't eat those pills will die
01:03:55  <fjb> I only get the borng things. Or chinese spam...
01:04:19  <Bjarni> I get those too
01:04:51  <Bjarni> in fact my homemade spam filter catches more than 100 spam mails every single day
01:04:56  <fjb> Maybe I should learn chinese. So I know if the chinese spam is more funny.
01:05:17  <fjb> Thats a usual number.
01:05:22  <Bjarni> are you sure it's Chinese?
01:06:28  <Bjarni> can you prove that it isn't Japanese or Vietnamese?
01:06:37  <Bjarni> or something else like that
01:08:02  <fjb> Hm, looks chinese.
01:08:17  <AntB> Mandarin or Cantonese? :P
01:08:37  <fjb> Japanese contains a bigger amout of simplified characters.
01:11:10  <Ammler> Bjarni:
01:12:25  <fjb> I's nice to have a heliport next to my head quarter. So I can fly home later. :-9
01:12:29  <Ammler> fjb:
01:13:31  <Ammler> Bjarni: you can also load the save without dutchset, include it and wait
01:13:38  <Ammler> it will happen
01:13:52  <Ammler> and without it runs nice...
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01:17:27  <|fjb|> Ammler: Thank you. I feel like being in the stone age of computer programming...
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01:17:41  <Ammler> :)
01:18:30  <Ammler> I hope they will have public release of GRFMaker soon
01:19:09  <|fjb|> GRFMaker look like Windows only.
01:19:22  <Ammler> hmm, wine :)
01:19:33  <|fjb|> Wine hates me. :-(
01:22:16  <|fjb|> It always complains about missing libraries.
01:22:52  <DaleStan> Wine and I have an agreement. I won't drink it, and it won't give me a hangover.
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01:23:26  <Ammler> :)
01:23:31  <|fjb|> :-)
01:23:53  <|fjb|> DaleStan: Thak your for your help with grfcodec.
01:24:07  <DaleStan> You're welcome. Sorry about the bug.
01:24:27  <Ammler> DaleStan: possible that a GRF can make a secmentation fault?
01:24:59  <Ammler> I have a save where I can include Dutch Tram an after about 30 sec the game crahes...
01:25:31  <|fjb|> The version from svn works great.
01:25:41  <|fjb|> Now I have to learn more nfo.
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01:26:44  <DaleStan> Ammler: As far as I'm concerned, any crash is a bug, and should be reported.
01:26:56  <Ammler> its already
01:27:08  <|fjb|> The funny thing about Ammler's problem ist, that the suspicious vehicle number doesn't get accessed by the tram set grf.
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01:30:29  <Ammler> good night all
01:30:52  <fjb> Ammler: good night
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01:46:12  <Bjarni> goodnight
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02:45:33  <DaleStan> Belugas, Maedhros: Action 7 var A1 docs still do not agree with example. Docs say "80000h is *added*". Example does not reflect this.
03:01:49  <fjb> Good night
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08:55:45  <dihedral|work> mronin
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09:17:59  <dihedral|work> did my mail actually get to the dev-maillist?
09:18:24  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: doubtful
09:18:29  <dihedral|work> :-S
09:18:34  <dihedral|work> why is that?
09:18:35  <TrueBrain> the devlist was stopped long long ago
09:18:40  <dihedral|work> great
09:18:52  <TrueBrain> most because of the amount of spam
09:18:53  <dihedral|work> bjarni told me the other day to send an email to it
09:18:59  <TrueBrain> then bjarni is an idiot
09:19:04  <dihedral|work> lol
09:19:05  <TrueBrain> that shouldn't come as a suprise :p
09:19:10  <dihedral|work> lol
09:19:18  <TrueBrain> (kidding :))
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09:19:27  <dihedral|work> he also said that it had been very quite for some time :-D
09:19:37  <TrueBrain> yeah, as I made it a /dev/null
09:19:43  <dihedral|work> lol
09:19:48  <dihedral|work> dev-null@...
09:20:00  <dihedral|work> well
09:20:17  <dihedral|work> we were wondering if you could cname :-D
09:20:33  <dihedral|work> "you" (the dev's)
09:21:00  <TrueBrain> email me (truelight@) with a GOOD reasoning why that should be done
09:21:07  <TrueBrain> CNames btw are totally out of the question
09:21:18  <dihedral|work> why?
09:21:26  <TrueBrain> (okay, those 2 lines are confusing :p)
09:21:33  <TrueBrain> we want quality control over subdomains
09:21:38  <dihedral|work> ah
09:21:39  <dihedral|work> ok
09:21:41  <TrueBrain> so long ago we said: no redirects, no cnames
09:21:43  <dihedral|work> makes sense
09:21:58  <dihedral|work> 100% understand that :-P
09:21:59  <TrueBrain> say we do that, you dislike us, you put on it: YOU SUCK! :p
09:22:16  <TrueBrain> nah, that was a joke :) The problem is, the questions people have
09:22:22  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: we would never :-) you should at least know that by now
09:22:25  <TrueBrain> currently we control ALL subdomains :)
09:22:31  <dihedral|work> yes
09:22:32  <TrueBrain> I do, as said, was a joke ;)
09:22:43  <dihedral|work> you beat me to it with that line
09:22:45  <dihedral|work> :-)
09:22:50  <Tefad_> grfs really break things
09:22:57  <Tefad_> such as.. sound?
09:23:01  <dihedral|work> nope
09:23:02  <TrueBrain> Tefad_: it also adds things
09:23:06  <TrueBrain> so I think it is a good 50-50 :)
09:23:26  <Tefad_> it makes the clang clang sounds in the title sound like really loud farts
09:23:36  <dihedral|work> lol
09:23:50  <Tefad_> yeah. i guess i'm getting the bad 50.
09:24:03  <TrueBrain> I always start openttd with -snull
09:24:10  <Tefad_> heh
09:24:12  <TrueBrain> so I truly wouldn't know how it is supposed to sound :)
09:24:22  <Tefad_> aren't you a dev
09:24:29  <TrueBrain> dunno, you tell me?
09:24:46  <Tefad_> cocks to you, sir.
09:24:55  <TrueBrain> I realyl don't know
09:25:21  <TrueBrain> anyway, Tefad_, make a bug-report out of it
09:25:21  <Tefad_> i think i remember reading your handle in the data that gets spewed by
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09:25:30  <Tefad_> the problem is, i don't know what's causing it
09:25:38  <Tefad_> i'm trying out ottdc's grfpack
09:25:48  <phao> where do i get TTD ?
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09:26:00  <TrueBrain> phao: (who would have guessed)
09:26:01  <Tefad_> and like an idiot i'm throwing them all in there and crossing fingers with horrible luck
09:26:09  <Tefad_> well, that's where you get openttd
09:26:21  <TrueBrain> Tefad_: don't you find the sounds annoying after a short while? In general?
09:26:24  <Tefad_> though i'm sure if you look hard enough..
09:26:25  <phao> TrueBrain i've dwonload openttd there, but when i install it asks for TTD directory.
09:26:35  <TrueBrain> phao: which, as the documents state, you need
09:26:42  <TrueBrain> to own, like buy, in a real shop
09:26:47  <Tefad_> TrueBrain: i grew up with them, they're almost comforting
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09:27:10  <Tefad_> however yes, the clanging and the like get annoying after some time
09:28:08  <phao> ok
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09:32:42  <Tefad_> however yes, the clanging and the like get annoying after some time
09:32:46  <Tefad_> er.
09:32:52  <Tefad_> bad window.
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09:34:08  <TrueBrain> at least you make full english sentences in wrong windows
09:34:11  <TrueBrain> I always have things like:
09:34:12  <TrueBrain> ls
09:34:13  <TrueBrain> top
09:34:13  <TrueBrain> :p
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09:34:20  <Tefad_> i hit up then enter . .
09:34:42  <Tefad_> i was going for "./openttd" but that came out
09:34:53  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
09:34:57  <TrueBrain> so you are not that different ;)
09:35:02  <Tefad_> ok it's a really bitchy problem
09:35:12  <Tefad_> it seems to only happen when N grfs are loaded
09:35:19  <Tefad_> and N might be a variable
09:35:27  <Tefad_> or some combination of grfs.
09:35:41  <Tefad_> it doesn't seem to be a specific grf.
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09:36:39  <Tefad_> hah, if i load N+1 i get a straight segfault
09:37:10  <TrueBrain> see, that is useful :)
09:37:14  <TrueBrain> run a gdb over it ;)
09:37:19  <Tefad_> ugh man
09:37:46  <Tefad_> yeah, so far its N is fine, N+1 causes sound screwups, and N+2 causes segfault
09:37:48  <Tefad_> wooo.
09:38:12  <Tefad_> and i tried with some variations of grfs
09:38:46  <LeviathNL> I had the same problem a couple of times, I also could not find the cause of the problem
09:39:10  <Tefad_> N = 47 presently
09:40:53  <Tefad_> wow don't have gdb.
09:41:00  <Tefad_> been a while.
09:42:03  <blathijs> Sounds like a buffer overflow somewhere...
09:42:11  <Tefad_> that's my guess
09:42:32  <LeviathNL> ok now i have also 'activated' the sound issue
09:42:44  <blathijs> Since the sound subsystem uses malloc/free _a lot_ that's where buffer overflows get "detected" first
09:42:45  <Tefad_> fart-tastic.
09:42:56  <LeviathNL> 46 grf's
09:43:08  <Tefad_> that causes the sound problems?
09:43:57  <LeviathNL> can we help by running ottd in debug mode?
09:44:23  <Tefad_> i had no idea gdb was such a huge project.
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09:44:52  <Tefad_> if i'm not mistaken, a full PC emulator has less baggage.
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09:47:03  <LeviathNL> what is gdb ?
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09:48:40  <blathijs> LeviathNL: A debugging program
09:49:05  <blathijs> LeviathNL: But I don't think there is anything you can do to help out
09:49:21  <blathijs> If someone would file a bug report, that would help though
09:49:36  <blathijs> (First check if this bug hasn't been reported yet)
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09:56:50  <LeviathNL> Tefad_, is this the same segfault you're experiencing?
09:57:35  <Tefad_> huh?
09:57:54  <Tefad_> all i'm doing is starting the program
09:58:00  <Tefad_> *boom* instant segfault
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10:03:24  <Celestar> morning
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10:04:48  <Ammler> morning all
10:05:08  <Ammler> Tefad_: but you don't have any GRFs loaded?
10:06:00  <Tefad_> i get corrupt sound with 48 loaded, segfault with 49
10:06:22  <Tefad_> i don't molest the UI at all
10:06:28  <Tefad_> i add/remove via cfg file
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10:11:04  <LeviathNL> flyspray task added, Tefad_ can you add your openttd.cfg?
10:16:10  <Tefad_> those are the grf's i'm playing with
10:16:37  <Ammler> hmm. all?
10:17:04  <Ammler> some needs to be loaded exlusive
10:17:58  <Tefad_> still shouldn't cause segfaults
10:18:10  <Ammler> this cfg is only meant as template, you need to comment out grfs from same type.
10:18:50  <Ammler> I had a segfault because of using dutch tramset on a existing map.
10:18:53  <Tefad_> as obviously there are users stupid enough out there to try it.
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10:19:50  <Tefad_> when i play openttd i do it more to try to break it than to have "fun"
10:19:57  <Tefad_> though i end up having fun while trying to break it ; )
10:20:10  <Tefad_> like last night i had over 1000 road vehicles doing crazy things
10:20:45  <Tefad_> hardly using any CPU too
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10:26:47  <Gekz> Please to be having Vista.
10:26:57  <Gekz> LOL, I hate Vista so much, and I haven't used it -_-
10:27:00  <Gekz> Anyone using it?
10:29:32  <Ammler> I used "native" windows much more before I got a pc with vista, now I can't remember last time I booted windows
10:30:10  <Ammler> (Somtimes I use windows with VirtualBox.)
10:30:26  <Ammler> but thats XP of course
10:31:09  <Tefad_> i haven't had a windows install since august 2004 (or was it 2003)
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10:36:40  <LeviathNL> Just to be sure i'm not the only one, the ECS Town vector Beta 3 Industries do not accept or generate anything? (You can't build a station/stop to pick/drop something)?
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10:50:21  <Belugas> [22:47] <DaleStan> Belugas, Maedhros: Action 7 var A1 docs still do not agree with example. Docs say "80000h is *added*". Example does not reflect this.   <--- ok, noted. sorry for dealy, forgot :S
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13:30:36  *** mode/#openttd [+v _42_] by Belugas
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14:07:07  <Belugas> Dalestan, done for action 7/9.  Hope it fits better
14:16:52  * dihedral|work greets Belugas
14:17:17  * Belugas salutes dihedral|work
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14:20:52  <denny577> hi everyone
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14:45:54  <pv2b> is it just something with me, or is the openttd metaserver down?
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14:54:38  <Rubidium> pv2b: looks like it
14:54:57  <pv2b> kinda works though
14:55:00  <Rubidium> TrueBrain's gone too, so that's a bad signs as the bouncer runs on the same server IIRC
14:55:11  <Rubidium> pv2b: two distinct servers
14:55:19  <pv2b> where does the php get its data?
14:55:45  <glx> in a DB
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14:56:15  <hylje> the grammar!
14:56:31  <pv2b> glx: and where does that db get its data? :-)
14:56:40  <dihedral|work> the master server?
14:56:44  <pv2b> which is down.
14:56:53  <dihedral|work> where does the master server get it's data from?
14:57:03  <pv2b> servers tell them they're online.
14:57:10  <pv2b> s/them/the master server/
14:57:29  * dihedral|work pats pv2b on the back
14:57:31  <dihedral|work> well done :-D
14:57:48  <pv2b> ah, it would make sense if the DB cached responses from the master server periodically.
14:58:06  <pv2b> instead of grabbing new data from the master server on each page load.
14:58:18  <dihedral|work> the db does not grab data
14:58:34  <pv2b> instead of the php script grabbing new data.
14:58:39  <dihedral|work> :-)
14:58:58  <dihedral|work> the php script grabbes the data from the db - which is sort of a cache
14:59:20  <dihedral|work> you basically want a redundant master server?
14:59:28  <Rubidium> uhmmm...
14:59:44  <pv2b> i don't want anything, i was just curious to why showed data when the master server was dow
15:00:02  <Rubidium> the masterserver receives "new" servers from the actual game servers, which the masterserver then puts in a DB
15:00:02  <dihedral|work> refresh your page...?
15:00:12  <pv2b> it loads pretty slow though.
15:00:13  <Rubidium> the websites gets the data directly from that DB
15:00:28  <pv2b> Rubidium: ah, that makes sense.
15:00:37  <dihedral|work> pv2b: clear your browsers cache and try again :-D
15:00:55  <pv2b> it loads about half the time for me
15:00:59  <Rubidium> and there's a second process that periodically checks whether the servers are still online *and* fills the database with actual useable information (like game date, version, GRF, etc).
15:02:34  <dihedral|work> Rubidium: the prob btw with that assertion we had on sat
15:02:35  <pv2b> dihedral|work: i tried with wget (Which to my knowledge uses no cache) and it loads some of the time -- sometimes it just times out tho.
15:02:59  <Rubidium> the masterserver itself does virtually nothing but queueing the new servers for a visit by the previously mentioned "update" process.
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15:03:12  <Rubidium> oh... and sending IPs to clients that get a list of servers
15:03:22  <TrueBrain> via a cache ;)
15:03:33  <dihedral|work> it came from both SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO
15:03:57  <pv2b> doesn't openttd itself gets it metadata direct from the running servers though, rather than said database?
15:04:04  <dihedral|work> so i removed the code that was informing the lobby of any clients in the companies or spectators
15:04:08  <dihedral|work> and all was fine
15:05:13  <dihedral|work> so i thought of something
15:05:33  <dihedral|work> including sequence numbers in the packet
15:06:06  <dihedral|work> so you would have [packetsize][packettype][sequencenumber] at the beginning of each packet
15:06:16  <dihedral|work> and [nextsequencenumber] at the end of each packet
15:06:46  <dihedral|work> if next sq > sq then data is following in the next packet
15:06:46  <Rubidium> dihedral|work: happy (re)writing TCP with resends and assembling and such...
15:07:07  <dihedral|work> and rather than processing the packets and all data in them at the same time
15:07:16  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: there are easier ways... like a simple bit that says: expect an other packet of this type
15:07:22  <TrueBrain> or better: put in the first packet the length
15:07:37  <dihedral|work> :-)
15:07:41  <TrueBrain> pv2b: it needs to know which servers to contact directly ;)
15:07:56  <dihedral|work> well - basically anything that allows spreading data over multiple packets
15:08:07  <TrueBrain> sequence numbers is stupid
15:08:10  <TrueBrain> TCP takes care of that
15:08:29  <TrueBrain> your are 100.00000% sure packets arrive in order of sending
15:08:46  <pv2b> TrueBrain: unless there is data corruption that the CRC doesn't pick up.
15:08:59  <pv2b> pretty unlikely though :-)
15:09:00  <TrueBrain> pv2b: still the packets are in order
15:09:10  <pv2b> TrueBrain: not if the packet sequence numbers were corrupted.
15:09:16  <TrueBrain> they might contains garbage, but they are in order :)
15:09:28  <dihedral|work> :-)
15:09:30  <TrueBrain> pv2b: then it re-requests the packet
15:09:42  <TrueBrain> as the seq number isn't correct :)
15:09:56  <pv2b> TrueBrain: not if the corruption means the sequence number was accidentally correct ;-)
15:10:03  <pv2b> but for a different packet.
15:10:04  <dihedral|work> that is what i was thinking of
15:10:05  <TrueBrain> lol! That chance is like... 0.000000000 :)
15:10:06  * Rubidium thinks dihedral|work has absolutely no idea what the reason is why UDP is used for the game query-like commands and not TCP
15:10:10  <dihedral|work> tcp sequence numbers
15:10:13  <dihedral|work> and i was thinking
15:10:21  <Rubidium> and has absolutely no idea how many packets get lost
15:10:27  <TrueBrain> pv2b: but okay, it _can_ happen :) In VERY rare situations :p Lol :)
15:10:55  <dihedral|work> Rubidium: i know tcp and udp differences
15:10:58  <pv2b> TrueBrain: i'd have to calcualte whether it actually is imporibable enough to round to 0.0000000% ... after all 100.0% can be less than 100% :-)
15:11:02  <dihedral|work> what i do not understand is
15:11:06  <TrueBrain> CRC check needs not to detect the sequence corruption, and the sequence need to fit in perfectly in the sequence of an existing flow :)
15:11:13  <dihedral|work> why put more importance on getting all data into one packet
15:11:19  <dihedral|work> rather tahn getting data to the client
15:11:50  <TrueBrain> pv2b: but nothing can be more than 100.000000000000000<..>%
15:11:54  <DaleStan> Belugas: Example and documentation still don't match. "Bit 19 is set" does not imply that the other 19 bits get cleared. If that is what happens, you need to say "80000h is used instead". If that is not what happens, then the example needs to reflect the fact that the low bits contain a non-zero value.
15:12:36  <pv2b> wouldn't it be cool if every single openttd server ran as a master server. problem is, you couldn't be certain the list is accurate. instead of trusting the openttdm aster server, you trust some random person.
15:12:39  <dihedral|work> imo, trying to squish all company data and all clients data in one single packet
15:12:54  <TrueBrain> pv2b: and: where to find all those master servers? :)
15:12:56  <dihedral|work> just makes no sense
15:13:02  <pv2b> TrueBrain: cache from a previous session.
15:13:13  <glx> dihedral|work: you can try to do it like newgrf data packet
15:13:16  <Rubidium> dihedral|work: then what do you want from us?
15:13:19  <TrueBrain> pv2b: so I am a new client, where to find a masterserver? :)
15:13:41  <dihedral|work> Rubidium: distribution of data over multiple packets
15:13:43  <pv2b> TrueBrain: the master server would still exist, but mainly just to bootstrap that client list. so i'd be able to connect somewhere now, so would most other people.
15:13:46  <Rubidium> a) make the openttd pre-game-network protocol about a factor 100 more complex due to retransmission and such
15:14:02  <dihedral|work> Rubidium: games have asserted because of it
15:14:03  <TrueBrain> pv2b: but okay, as you said, means trusting random people ;)
15:14:26  <Rubidium> b) use TCP and make it impossible to run a server for more than an hour under Windows because then it can't accept any new TCP connections?
15:14:43  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: no, the game asserted because you tried to have 55 clients in one server, while official we advise you to use just 11 :)
15:14:55  <pv2b> TrueBrain: though that wouldn't really be a big problem. worst that can happen is they get some ip address to some server that isn't actually an openttd server -- and then they just don't get any response back
15:15:02  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: the game asserted BEFORE even 12 clients were in the game
15:15:12  <dihedral|work> and they were ALL spectating at the time of assertion
15:15:13  <TrueBrain> pv2b: or they find a leak in the code, and can exploit all running OpenTTD clients ;)
15:15:28  <TrueBrain> spectators are also clients
15:15:30  <pv2b> which they can do anyway with the current master server :-)
15:15:43  <TrueBrain> pv2b: no, as we protect that :)
15:15:50  <TrueBrain> a client-side exploit can't be abused :)
15:16:02  <pv2b> just make a server which responds maliciously to a SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO
15:16:07  <TrueBrain> in worst case, only by a game-server you join :)
15:16:16  <TrueBrain> pv2b: okay, that is true :)
15:16:43  <TrueBrain> but in theory, we could make the MasterServer filter those servers :)
15:16:48  <dihedral|work> i am happy to do the work with rewriting the network part
15:17:05  <dihedral|work> just would like your thoughts towards it
15:17:14  <pv2b> TrueBrain: what if the exploit returns innocent data to the master server when it asks for SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO, but malicious informatio nto any one else?
15:17:17  <dihedral|work> i.e. me wrapping stuff with sq numbers
15:17:17  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: I think, just a thought, you just received them
15:17:26  <dihedral|work> lol
15:17:26  <TrueBrain> and I think it was like: BAD BAD BAD BAD idea
15:17:36  <TrueBrain> so I hope this statement makes it a bit more clear what the thoughts towards it are
15:17:42  <TrueBrain> pv2b: you win :)
15:17:44  <dihedral|work> then how would you want to go around removing all these assertions?
15:17:56  <TrueBrain> ha, I know thatone :) Not!
15:17:58  <TrueBrain> and keep 11 clients :)
15:18:05  <dihedral|work> lol
15:18:20  <dihedral|work> coop asserted in the same way before
15:18:26  <glx> but maybe something like newgrf packets could work
15:18:29  <dihedral|work> and they do not have that many clients
15:18:33  <TrueBrain> show me a trunk way that asserts on it, and we will look into it
15:18:42  <TrueBrain> glx: for UDP, indeed
15:18:48  <TrueBrain> send each company in a seperate packet
15:18:50  <dihedral|work> like i said TrueBrain
15:18:50  <TrueBrain> if it arrives, it arrives
15:18:53  <TrueBrain> if not, then not
15:18:58  <dihedral|work> coop has already had asserts
15:18:59  <TrueBrain> but I personally dislike it
15:19:09  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: and as I said:
15:19:11  <TrueBrain> show me a trunk way that asserts on it, and we will look into it
15:19:34  <pv2b> TrueBrain: so really, the only bad thing about letting every random server being a master server would be the potential of a few thousand (how many openttd users are tehre?) users sending unsolicited SERVER_CLIENTS_DETAIL_INFO messages to people not running serverrs.
15:19:59  <TrueBrain> pv2b: yup! Still, not worth the effort :)
15:20:07  <TrueBrain> the MS has an uptime of 99.97% last time I checked
15:20:36  <glx> and you still can play without MS
15:20:44  <TrueBrain> and that allows us to have a, and keep track of things :)
15:20:45  <glx> but you need to know IP and ports
15:22:39  <TrueBrain> which you can get via ;) Lol :)
15:23:06  <dihedral|work> Truebrain: 16:20 <+glx> and you still can play without MS
15:23:21  <TrueBrain> (the chance the MS is down, and the http is up, is very slim :))
15:23:27  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: you can read! I am impressed!
15:23:44  <pv2b> i've had a thought earlier by the way to make some kind of third party server browser, that lets you search for different cool stuff - like players on certain servers, or even patch settings.
15:24:06  <TrueBrain> pv2b: we wanted to add the first in the MS long long ago
15:24:10  <TrueBrain> in fact, it was for a while
15:24:12  <pv2b> i wonder though -- is it possible to get for example patch information without having to log in as a spec on every server?
15:24:23  <TrueBrain> but it was a bit more tricky, so removed :)
15:24:26  <pv2b> actually, even getting it without having to download the map.
15:24:33  <TrueBrain> pv2b: currently, no
15:24:42  <TrueBrain> but of course one can make a new packet for it
15:24:43  <dihedral|work> TrueBrain: tell me, servers. can show ip's and ports of servers that are not advertised?
15:24:55  <dihedral|work> or started servers while MS is down?
15:25:04  <pv2b> TrueBrain: new packet isn't neccessary... TCP to gather that specific information should be enough really.
15:25:13  <TrueBrain> dihedral|work: we were talking about the case the MS goes down; the http uses the 'cache' data, so it will show servers for a while
15:25:28  <TrueBrain> pv2b: which would mean a new packet :)
15:25:51  <pv2b> how is the patch information transmitted now anyway? is it part of the map data?
15:26:00  <TrueBrain> yup
15:26:08  <pv2b> what about patch changes?
15:26:31  <TrueBrain> via DoCommands
15:26:56  <pv2b> ok. is the patch data transmitted close to the beginning of the map data at least? :-)
15:27:16  <TrueBrain> undefined
15:27:53  <pv2b> ok. i'm going to have to take a look at the openttd network code - see if it's worth the effort.
15:29:24  <pv2b> guess what. the svn is down. :-)
15:29:50  <TrueBrain> no it isn't :)
15:30:42  <pv2b> pvz-powerbook:~/src/openttd pvz$ svn co svn://
15:30:42  <pv2b> svn: Kan inte ansluta till vÀrden "": Operation timed out
15:30:50  <TrueBrain> blame your ISP :)
15:31:07  <pv2b> new dns entry?
15:31:14  <TrueBrain> nope
15:31:35  <TrueBrain> on the server end, everything is green
15:31:43  <TrueBrain> but okay, fair enough, there seem to be some routing issues :)
15:31:49  <pv2b> PING ( 56 data bytes
15:31:49  <pv2b> 64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=49 time=33.011 ms
15:31:50  <pv2b> not routing
15:32:12  <pv2b> icmp is getting through at least.
15:32:12  <TrueBrain> svn info svn://
15:32:12  <TrueBrain> Path:
15:32:18  <TrueBrain> So svn is really working :p
15:32:38  <pv2b> that's strange. svn info works. svn co doesn't.
15:33:06  <TrueBrain> $ svn update
15:33:06  <TrueBrain> U    os/debian/changelog
15:33:08  <TrueBrain> :)
15:35:49  <TrueBrain> funny, a minor amount of people complain they can't reach it, but the bandwidth statistics don't show anything abnormal :)
15:36:25  <pv2b> something is strange, though i'm beyond blaming the svn for being down right now.
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15:38:53  <pv2b> TrueBrain: maybe because you have an svn account, and, i guess, are using something like svn over ssh.
15:39:13  <pv2b> i'm just using it as an anonymous user. and yeah, i checked that the SVN_RSH variable is clear.
15:39:57  <TrueBrain> no svn over ssh
15:40:09  <pv2b> or maybe the version of svn that comes with os x is a lemon. i'm going to try from another version on a linux machine i have here.
15:40:31  <TrueBrain> pv2b: also, you might just try it in, say, 10 minutes
15:40:39  <TrueBrain> it wouldn't be a suprise if then it would work :)
15:41:49  <TrueBrain> as if 'svn info' works, it is silly 'svn checkout' gives a time out error..
15:41:54  <TrueBrain> anyway, bbl
15:42:02  <TrueBrain> pv2b: let me know in 30 min if you still haven't fixed it ;)
15:42:06  <pv2b> i will.
15:47:36  <pv2b> now not even svn info is working.
15:47:48  <pv2b> it might be because i'm getting high packet loss though.
15:47:58  <pv2b> to just that server.
15:49:09  <pv2b> ah, svn info works, but only intermittently. yeah. probably a network issue.
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16:05:22  <TrueBrain> pv2b: still having problems?
16:05:34  <pv2b> nope, it's working now
16:05:43  <pv2b> must have been some kind of network issue as you said.
16:05:44  <TrueBrain> so indeed routing problems :)
16:05:51  <TrueBrain> it happens
16:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf...
16:06:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> i got an email from ebay
16:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> ... it's in spanish
16:06:24  <pv2b> you sure it's not a phish?
16:06:24  <TrueBrain> well.. maybe it is fake :)
16:06:27  *** Farden123 [] has joined #openttd
16:06:44  <TrueBrain> and there is Farden again with his endless joins and leaves
16:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does start with a line like "by giving your real name we prove that this is not spam"
16:07:32  <pv2b> and is tat your real name?
16:07:43  <TrueBrain> and that isn't in your email when you sent someone a mail? :)
16:07:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
16:08:04  <pv2b> also i'm pretty sure ebay doesn't use your real name, they use something else to prove real e-mails.
16:08:23  <TrueBrain> like links that really go to ebay ;)
16:08:25  <pv2b> realnames are easy to snoop from address books.
16:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i'm gonna look up some real ebay mails
16:10:08  <huma> Eddi|zuHause2: does it say something like "enlargo el peniso"? :)
16:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> more like "MARATÓN VENDEDOR DE EBAY"
16:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the links all start with ""
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16:11:44  <pv2b> do they actually start with that or do they just appear to?
16:12:29  <pv2b> my last legit email from ebay is from 2005... so i can't really help you.
16:12:33  <pv2b> it was in german, incidentally :-)
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16:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a text message, there is not much to fake about links :p
16:13:37  <pv2b> is it actually a text message or does it masquerade as being a text message? ;-)
16:14:41  <Brianetta> eBay messages appear in My Messages when you log in to eBay
16:14:52  <Brianetta> If it's not there when you log in, they didn't send it.
16:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> it has a text and a html part
16:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> like all other ebay messages i ever got
16:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> apart from it being in spanish, it looks genuine...
16:16:10  <Brianetta> well, log in and see!
16:16:22  <Brianetta> Delete the email, and read it ont he web site
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16:18:36  * dihedral|work greets skidd13
16:19:07  <skidd13> Hi
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16:22:50  <skidd13> Has anyone of the devs read the recent posts of FS1341 ?
16:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i got to go now
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16:54:29  <Digitalfox> Could someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? :\
16:54:30  <Digitalfox>
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16:58:19  <mcbane> Roujin answered
17:00:58  <Digitalfox> yes mcbane, i now posted a new order is it correct now?
17:04:02  *** dihedral|work is now known as dihedral|away
17:04:39  <mcbane> town,basic, chemical,machine woood,construction,agricultur
17:05:22  <Digitalfox> Are you sure thats a better order?
17:05:45  <Digitalfox> Or the order isn't important/doesn't make difference?
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17:08:06  <mcbane> it do
17:09:57  <mcbane> i have 28 insdustries.
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17:11:15  <mcbane> but i cant get ecd and town replacement work together.
17:11:33  <mcbane> *ecs
17:13:26  <mcbane> hmm wiki sais there is no needed order..
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17:15:59  <Digitalfox> Well it seems TTRS must be in the end
17:16:11  <Digitalfox> since i now have petrol stations working
17:17:24  <mcbane> i have it in the end and it gets disabled. when i have it after esc vector grfs i get only tourist center and bank..
17:18:08  <Digitalfox> Well in my topic that order seems to work well
17:19:33  <mcbane> town ned to be in first place adn i get 32 insustries
17:19:43  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:19:43  <mcbane> heh
17:21:34  <mcbane> ok it works with ttrs and now i have 34 industries.
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17:29:03  <BiA|pavel-css> i have a prob :( ... in my built ottd, there is a 50% chance that, you will get desync in multyplayer when bu try to built a industry :( any suggests? :/
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17:30:22  <fjb> Moin
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17:32:18  <Wolf01> hello
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17:35:59  <fjb> Hello Wolf
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17:56:51  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, I stumbled upon this site: . It comes with some very interesting graphics (look for the data-map). I'm not sure if you can use it, you should ask the creators of the mod. download  ->
18:01:56  <Wolf01> uhm, i prefer to use my own skill(z) to make "teh brickland climate" instead of grabbing the sprites around ;)
18:02:54  <LeviathNL> just some inspiration :)
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18:07:40  <Ammller> back
18:07:47  <Ammller> dihedral, still testing?
18:08:33  <dihedral> yes
18:10:09  <BiA|pavel-css> what r u testing dihedral?
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18:24:04  <dihedral> TrueBrain and Rubidium: i just did a test, with maxing out company names and client names (11 clients)
18:24:12  <dihedral> it did not assert
18:24:13  <dihedral> :-(
18:24:41  <dihedral> just wanted to let you know that i at least tried :-D
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18:25:39  <fjb> Moin. :-)
18:28:09  <LordAzamath> @dihedral.. any chance of you guys needing some additional grfs for 2WWOTTDGD? :D I just started to like pixel-drawing :D
18:28:34  <LordAzamath> ..and have some WIP's already :D
18:28:37  <dihedral> pretty good chance
18:29:06  <LordAzamath> that's good
18:29:37  <dihedral> just at the moment we are still needing our rest
18:29:41  <dihedral> :-)
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18:30:10  <LordAzamath> =)
18:30:12  <dihedral> i am still k.o.
18:30:15  <LordAzamath> that's good
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18:32:05  * dihedral greets Brianetta
18:32:11  <LordAzamath> anyway, if I complete something interesting, I'll let you guys will get a good use :D
18:38:03  <Brianetta> hi Diabolic-Angel
18:38:05  <Brianetta> er
18:38:08  <Brianetta> hi dihedral
18:38:39  <Ammller> ah, thats the source of the name? :)$
18:38:59  <dihedral> ??
18:41:50  <dihedral> how is the unique_id or network_id generated?
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18:43:14  <Wolf01> is ((sacro's birth date + real name) rot13) base 64 encoded
18:43:54  <dihedral> no
18:44:00  <dihedral> i am asking seriously
18:44:04  <dihedral> because i deleted it from my config
18:44:09  <dihedral> and got the same one back again
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18:45:35  <Wolf01> Maedhros knows it, don't you, Maedhros?
18:46:00  <Maedhros> probably
18:46:04  <Maedhros> what do i know, though? :p
18:46:17  <Wolf01> the mistery of [19:41:55] <dihedral> how is the unique_id or network_id generated?
18:46:25  <dihedral> how the _network_unique_id is generated
18:47:07  <Maedhros> ah, in that case, i don't have a clue ;)
18:49:07  <LordAzamath> usual...
18:49:13  <Maedhros> well, a couple of seconds of grepping has given me NetworkGenerateUniqueId()
18:49:49  <Maedhros> which is an md5 hash of Random() + "OpenTTD Unique ID"
18:50:46  <dihedral> and...
18:50:58  <dihedral> how on earth can that then give me the same id twice?
18:51:17  <dihedral> i mean - removing it from the config file should be enough to get it generated again right?
18:52:06  <Maedhros> did you do anything between deleting it and getting it regenerated? start a new game, play for a while, anything?
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18:53:15  <dihedral> i quit the game, removed the line from cfg, saved, started openttd, joined a test server
18:53:26  <dihedral> opened the cfg
18:53:28  <dihedral> and back it was
18:55:04  <TinoDidriksen> Maybe the random part isn't seeded properly.
18:56:40  <TrueBrain> dihedral: that's why I say: in trunk it doesn't happen as far as I can tell, and if so, I like ot know ;)
18:56:58  <dihedral> :-)
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19:13:23  <Maedhros> Ammller: (re: bug 1376) did you load the dutch tramset into an existing game?
19:13:45  <Ammller> YES
19:13:47  <Maedhros> because you now have a road vehicle in a loading bay that thinks it's a tram
19:13:57  <Ammller> sorry for caps look :)
19:14:00  <Maedhros> which causes the segfault when it starts moving
19:14:05  <LeviathNL> r11353 does not clone orders while if you clone with ctrl pressed
19:14:13  <Maedhros> (tile 15183, by the way)
19:14:42  <Maedhros> and the newgrf window popup does say quite clearly that making changes to a running game can cause crashes :p
19:15:04  <Ammller> oh, never mind, I know, its a bad idea :)
19:15:16  <Maedhros> yeah, just a bit :p
19:16:13  <Ammller> so, if you like to insert a set in a running game, you could send them all to depot
19:16:41  <Ammller> and then inserting the set, that should work, shouldn't?
19:17:00  <Maedhros> it might, but it's still a pretty big risk
19:17:48  <Ammller> so, you close the task with pointing to not doing it?
19:18:17  <Maedhros> yup
19:18:22  <Ammller> its ok with me, I thought, its bad, now I know :)
19:22:49  <fjb> I guess Ammler's problem was my fault. :-(
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19:23:47  <Ammller> fjb: nay, I said you already, didn't use your patch...
19:23:58  <Ammller> maybe with your patch it would work :)
19:25:08  <fjb> With the latest version it will work.
19:26:06  <fjb> I had abroken version that gave me a tram with a truck trailer. That combination crashed the game when it tried to enter the tram depot. But that was a bad combination anyway. :-)
19:27:10  <fjb> I feel like a computer caveman while editing nfo files.
19:27:39  <LordAzamath> BUGGER...BUGGER!
19:27:44  * LordAzamath comes flying
19:27:58  <dihedral> LordAzamath: make a MacDonalds GRF :-D
19:28:04  <LordAzamath> ok
19:28:07  <dihedral> lol
19:28:12  <LordAzamath> but I want to say about a bug first
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19:28:23  <dihedral> replace shopping center
19:28:24  <LordAzamath> Pavel found it
19:28:33  <LordAzamath> yes, yes...but wait
19:28:39  <LordAzamath> :D
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19:28:50  <Sionide> McDonalds
19:29:05  <Ammller> dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
19:29:17  <dihedral> :-S
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19:29:33  <LordAzamath> If you join a MP game, get into a company and try to fund desyncs for client
19:29:41  <LordAzamath> but not for server
19:29:50  <LordAzamath> I just tried it
19:29:55  <Ammller> yes, we can approve that too
19:30:07  <Ammller> just happen on our server too
19:30:14  <LordAzamath> and it's present in your WWOTTDGD bin too
19:30:32  <Ammller> hmm, don't hunt bug in WWOTTDGD bin
19:30:36  <LordAzamath> :D
19:30:42  <dihedral> yes
19:30:45  <LordAzamath> I just didn't have newer one
19:31:00  <LordAzamath> but it "works" in all later nightlys
19:31:10  <LordAzamath> Pavel tested it
19:31:35  <Wolf01> bah.. 512t of coal (64% transported), purchased 10 new trucks -> 352t of coal (76% transported)
19:32:24  <LordAzamath> I now have a newer one..going to test it again :D
19:32:26  <fjb> Where are the coal trams? :-)
19:32:42  <Wolf01> i played too much ottd, i keep pressed the tab key to accelerate the time you take to answer me
19:33:23  * fjb always does a right click to move the content of a window.
19:37:38  <LordAzamath> ok.... if server makes new industries, clients desyncs... tested with 11353. If clients make new industries, they desync too..Server never desyncs
19:38:09  * LordAzamath will go drawing McDonalds for Dihedral ;)
19:38:26  <dihedral> [20:29]	<Ammller>	dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
19:38:38  <Maedhros> LeviathNL: i'm not understanding bug 1380... how can it be refitted to passengers if that's the default?
19:39:04  <LeviathNL> I'll post a screen
19:42:05  <Ammller> LordAzamath:
19:42:11  <LeviathNL> Maedhros, see comments on the bug-report
19:42:27  <Ammller> maybe you can do something not commerce
19:43:15  <glx> LeviathNL: you mean "livery" refit
19:44:59  <LeviathNL> I guess :)
19:47:49  <huma> LordAzamath: draw starbucks too :)
19:48:22  <Ammller> LordAzamath: I will include them in the coop pack only, if they donate to
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19:49:23  <LordAzamath> I go away for a second, and coming back...thay are asking for starbucks, donations..what else? :D
19:49:32  <Ammller> maybe you do somthing for the ECS Tourist vector:
19:49:46  <LordAzamath> I actually wasn't going to draw Mcdonalds ;)
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19:54:31  <LordAzamath> for there anything really I could draw?
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19:55:11  <BiA|pavel-css> :)
19:55:19  <BiA|pavel-css> new trains ;)
19:55:56  <LordAzamath> I'll start from buildings...there are lots...lots of trainsets avilable
19:55:59  <fjb> Is it possible to just add new buildings or does every new building replace another one?
19:56:32  <LordAzamath> with newhuses...I think it's I right?
19:57:10  <mikegrb> ~an
19:57:20  <fjb> LordAzamath: Make an erotik shop. Georges busses are already doing the advertises. :-)
19:57:35  <LordAzamath> unfortunatly, I have to spend a year studying at specs to be able to make something lie that
19:57:39  <LeviathNL> I think so, ttrs3 add buildings by default
19:57:47  <LordAzamath> @fjb....I'm a minor
19:58:02  <LordAzamath> so no *erotic shops* from me
19:58:04  <LordAzamath> :D
19:58:10  <fjb> LordAzamath: Then don't look at the busses. :-)
19:58:11  <Belugas> fjb, you can either replace some houses by your own or you can add new ones.
19:58:24  <fjb> Belugas: thank you.
19:58:25  <Belugas> you're free to do whatever you want
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19:58:33  <BiA|pavel-css> what about Mcdonalds? :)
19:58:38  <BiA|pavel-css> :D :P
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19:58:43  * dihedral slaps BiA|pavel-css
19:58:47  <Belugas> i prefer A&W
19:58:53  <BiA|pavel-css> i prefer KFC
19:58:56  * fjb prefers chinese food.
19:59:07  <LordAzamath> [21:38] <dihedral> [20:29]	<Ammller>	dihedral / LordAzamath thats already done...
19:59:20  * LordAzamath breaks out the slapping rod and looks sternly at BiA|pavel-css
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20:00:15  * BiA|pavel-css is whistilng
20:00:17  <BiA|pavel-css> O:-)
20:00:22  <LordAzamath> macdonalds when the char-set is anything like western...Chinise food for chinise charset :DD
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20:01:33  <Sionide> it's "mc"
20:01:34  <Ammller> I would rather like chinese food then mc donald
20:01:50  <LordAzamath> Hesburger is better than MC
20:01:51  <Sionide> chinese food restaurant with a dodgy neon sign would look cool
20:03:45  <Barry> Hello
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20:03:58  <LeviathNL> draw a playing ground or a park :) a bit more space in the cities.
20:04:05  <BiA|pavel-css> or simple bilboard :) with ........ somethink original .... like
20:04:05  <hylje> draw withering cities
20:04:06  <dihedral> 4x4
20:04:11  <LordAzamath>
20:04:19  <LordAzamath> @sionide
20:04:19  <hylje> dark, dodgy, hideous
20:04:26  <Sionide> yessss
20:04:30  <Sionide> a dodgy sign that flickers
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20:05:58  <LordAzamath> I think, I'll emerge back to Mandriva 2008, now and install IRC client there...or use kopeete.  the Vista is uselessly slow :(
20:06:01  <BiA|pavel-css> some advertisment ....
20:06:02  <BiA|pavel-css>
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20:10:05  <ln-> he dared to return
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20:13:33  * dihedral slaps Bjarni
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20:15:07  <LordAzamath> now back :D
20:20:03  <Bjarni> what did I do?
20:20:14  <fjb> He changed the os.
20:20:42  <dihedral> you told me to mail to the dev maillist
20:21:12  <Bjarni> did you do that?
20:21:58  <dihedral> yep
20:22:05  <dihedral> talk to TrueBrain about that maillist
20:22:19  * Bjarni wonders why he didn't get that mail
20:22:31  <fjb> Why does the newspaper always tell me unimportant this like closing industries that are already closed, but never tells me about a crashed airplain and almost never about a crash at a road / railroad crossing?
20:22:45  <dihedral> Bjarni: that is _exactly_ what you should ask TB about
20:22:46  <hylje> it does but it's buried in all that industry talk
20:23:01  <LordAzamath> because you havent touched the messages settings?
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20:23:35  <hylje> "you mean ottd has message settings?"
20:23:40  <ln-> Bjarni: i don't know what others are fererring to, i was merely talking about the pressure for resolving the two compilation errors on leopard.
20:23:55  <fjb> I just checked the settings. It should be in the news. But I never see it.
20:24:34  <LordAzamath> "you mean ottd has message settings?" yes
20:26:52  <Belugas> do you see those news in the history?
20:30:53  <fjb> No, or at least I sometimes miss a vehicle. I asume that it had an accident, but that usually isn't in the news history anymore.
20:32:12  <fjb> Three concodes, vour tracks, a tram and two busses diappeared.
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21:01:44  <LordAzamath> ok...I have drawns me find out what it is :D
21:01:46  <LordAzamath>
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21:02:55  <LordAzamath> anyone?
21:02:55  <Belugas> a trophee?
21:03:20  <Belugas> a nice fruit basket?
21:03:21  <LordAzamath> it looks more like a house
21:03:39  <ln-> LordAzamath: what happened to
21:03:48  <Belugas> a military building?
21:03:59  <ln-> LordAzamath: err.. nothing, it seems.
21:04:02  <Belugas> it has an helipad on the roof?
21:04:08  <LordAzamath> a pool
21:04:19  <Belugas> ^_^
21:04:21  <Belugas> ok
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21:04:29  <LordAzamath> I thought it would be helipad, but then rethought it
21:04:40  <LordAzamath> actually, I don't know what it is
21:04:56  <Belugas> it is strange looking, to say the least
21:05:03  <Belugas> and now, i'm going home
21:05:05  <Belugas> see you
21:05:11  <Belugas> and good night
21:05:11  <dihedral> cu
21:05:12  <LordAzamath> see you too...bye
21:05:53  <dihedral> LordAzamath: how about thinking of something to draw
21:06:18  <LordAzamath>
21:06:34  <dihedral> rathen than drawing something and then finding out what it is supposed to be
21:06:40  <LordAzamath> :d
21:06:49  <LordAzamath> I don't know....
21:07:54  <LordAzamath> give me a good ide
21:07:54  <LordAzamath> a
21:08:03  <LordAzamath> :)
21:13:34  <LordAzamath> ummm... I'll draw a...mall next time....tomorrow I think
21:14:10  <LordAzamath> but I guess then that one wasn't so good. :( Try better next time :)
21:14:35  <LordAzamath> anyway, I'll go to sleep now
21:14:38  <LordAzamath> bye
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21:26:09  <Maarten> :)
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21:47:54  <Knightmare> hey guys
21:48:45  <Knightmare> is anyone available to confirm the existence of a bug for me?
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21:53:51  <Knightmare> NOT_REACHED triggered at line 152 of /compile_farm/openttd/nightly/compile_sir/src/slope.h
21:57:25  <Rubidium> well... make it reproducable by loading a savegame and doing something specific or (even better) nothing. Then post the savegame at
21:59:29  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:07:09  <dihedral> night
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22:13:06  <Knightmare> this is happening when i load a game i saved against last nights SVN ok
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22:31:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11354 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1379]: one variable wasn't freed whereas all others were. It's not causing any problems as it happens during the shutdown of OpenTTD. So basically it is only for consistency.
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22:39:11  <skidd13> Hi
22:40:49  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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22:59:07  <skidd13> Is the misplacement of the trams (modern tram set) in the group_gui a bug in OTTD or in the grf?
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23:00:46  <Rubidium> misplacement?
23:01:20  <Rubidium> you mean something like wrong alignment or so? If that's the case, it's most likely the GRF as the others seem to work.
23:02:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11355 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#1377]: loading too many GRFs was not handled gracefully causing crashes and such.
23:03:00  <skidd13> Some sprites seem to go out of bounds. I think it's the GRF too but I'm not sure that's why I'm asking.
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23:07:29  <fjb> The modern tram set is in very early development. The graphics are there, but almost none of the vehicle statistics. I would guess that there is much more to do.
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23:29:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11356 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Fix (r11305): funding industries in MP game was causing desync
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23:41:43  <Ammlller> nice fix glx, we realized that just today
23:41:50  <Ammlller> thank you.
23:43:07  <Ammlller> fjb: I guess, this guy is looking for coder..., job for you?
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23:53:28  <Sacro> grr
23:58:28  <fjb> Ammlller: ME, Coder? No. :-)
23:59:00  <Ammlller> oh, why not?
23:59:12  <fjb> I'm lucky I found the values that I had to change.
23:59:36  <fjb> I'm not cool enough to be a coder. :-P

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