Log for #openttd on 22nd November 2007:
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00:04:02  <Szandor> Can someone enlighten me as to the choices for magic constants _tunnel_fractcoord_1[dir] etc.? I'm looking at tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp, line~1440, function VehicleEnter_TunnelBridge
00:04:50  <Szandor> I've worked out what they do (how far along the tile before we're in the tunnel and need to disappear), but I don't know why those  numbers were picked ofer any others
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02:46:14  <fjb> How can I delete a sign that is on top of anouther sign (in 0.5.3)?
02:46:51  <glx> edit it and delete the text
02:47:30  <fjb> Only the lower sign gets selected, not the upper.
02:51:00  <Gonozal_VIII> you'll have to delete both and replace the lower with a new one then
02:52:48  <fjb> I don't want to replace the lower, because I didn't make it.
02:55:32  <fjb> Strange, I have some planes circling above an almost empty airport (0.5.3).
02:56:14  <Gonozal_VIII> crashed plane in the way?
02:56:29  <Gonozal_VIII> or zeppelin :-)
02:56:59  <fjb> No, no, other airplanes are landing and starting there.
02:57:45  <glx> if a plane miss is turn to land, it returns in the loop
02:58:37  <fjb> Both runways are free.
02:59:05  <Gonozal_VIII> orders ok?
02:59:44  <fjb> Yes, checked it
03:00:17  <Gonozal_VIII> skip them and see if it happens again
03:00:34  <fjb>
03:00:56  <fjb> Maybe that is the best idea.
03:01:44  <Gonozal_VIII> broken down planes are very slow, they often circle for long times because faster planes overtake them
03:01:54  <fjb> Problem is they have an engine malfunction and are really slow in 0.5.3 :-(
03:02:16  <fjb> No faster planes were overtaking. That is the strange thing.
03:02:35  <fjb> Both runways were free most of the time.
03:02:55  <Gonozal_VIII> btw "fahre nach" for planes is stupid
03:03:24  <glx> hmm I can see a concorde in landing phase
03:03:36  <fjb> That would be correct for airships only. :-)
03:04:08  <glx> oups it's already landed
03:04:09  <Gonozal_VIII> the concorde is on the ground
03:04:18  <fjb> Yes, but the other runway was still free. And the planes were circling there for over a year. The concorde was not always there. :-)
03:04:56  <fjb> Oh, indded, is on the ground.
03:04:57  <Gonozal_VIII> could be a bug but not one that i've heard from
03:05:28  <fjb> I have never seen that before.
03:06:09  <fjb> I will see if they are landing at the other airport.
03:06:40  <fjb> Maybe it happend because I "stole" the other players goods. :-)
03:07:07  <Gonozal_VIII> how?
03:08:10  <Gonozal_VIII> wait a minute... the plane 62 doesn't have that airport in its orders
03:08:35  <fjb> I have a better connection to his factory. He transports grain and animals to the factory and I'm taking the products, carry them to the aitrport and fly them to the other side of the world. :-)
03:09:11  <Gonozal_VIII> that shouldn't have anything to do with circling planes
03:09:37  <Gonozal_VIII> are there service at orders in 0.5.3?
03:10:11  <fjb> Oh, thank you, that must have happened when I did an upgrade to the airport. I havebt seen that. thank you.
03:10:43  <Gonozal_VIII> ah that other airport is not an airport at all
03:10:59  <Gonozal_VIII> shouldn't that be invalid order?
03:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm no... stays valid
03:12:48  <fjb> A train station with that name still exists. It was linked before.
03:12:49  <Gonozal_VIII> but you should get a message about that
03:13:29  <Gonozal_VIII> the order stays valid in the order list but you get a message about invalid orders
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03:13:36  <Gonozal_VIII> just tested it
03:14:23  * glx ->Sleep()
03:14:29  <fjb> Hm, I should recheck my news options.
03:14:39  <Gonozal_VIII> night glx
03:14:42  <fjb> :-) Good night glx
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03:15:37  <fjb> It's working much better now. I think I'm too tired. Thank you.
03:16:13  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
03:17:47  <Gonozal_VIII> yay, finished my newgrf selection for the weekend gaming session :D
03:18:37  <fjb> Oh, good, it's not easy now.
03:18:52  <fjb> "Steeling" happens here:
03:18:54  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... so many good grfs around
03:19:17  <fjb> Yes, and it's getting better. Many new grfs are in the work.
03:19:17  <Gonozal_VIII> some work fine together but others don't... had to test a lot
03:19:44  <fjb> I'm not that happy about bridges and road combinations yet.
03:19:56  <Gonozal_VIII> i've found a good one :-)
03:20:21  <fjb> Which one?
03:20:49  <Gonozal_VIII> newbridgesW.grf with param 2
03:21:01  <Gonozal_VIII> and the european roadset
03:21:11  <fjb> What is param 2 doing?
03:21:24  <Gonozal_VIII> sets the bridges to fit euroroads
03:21:50  <fjb> I don't like the europead road set that much. And the UK roadset complains about TTRS, even when the roads of TTRS are disabled.
03:22:31  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, ttrs param 3 set to 0 for road disabling...
03:22:32  <fjb> The admin of the server I'm playing on didn't enable better loadeing. .-(
03:23:17  <fjb> Disabling the TTRS roads is mentioned in the UK road set readme, but that conbination still doesn't work.
03:23:59  <Gonozal_VIII> didnt try uk road set, i like the european
03:24:20  <Gonozal_VIII>
03:24:28  <Gonozal_VIII> that's the grflist
03:24:30  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
03:25:22  <Gonozal_VIII> serbian railset is great for ecs
03:26:47  <fjb> The european road set looks a bit boring.
03:27:02  <fjb> I didn't try the serbian railset yet.
03:27:49  <fjb> What is srvtt?
03:27:58  <Gonozal_VIII> serbian trams
03:28:49  <fjb> Ah, ok. I prefer the dutch trams because they are articulated. Looks cute.
03:29:30  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but they replace too many of the lv4 trucks
03:29:40  <fjb> New terrain? What does it do? Replace the fields?
03:30:21  <Gonozal_VIII> the grass... looks more grassy and without a grid
03:31:05  <fjb> I have patches the dutch tram set. Now it works proper with LV4. The serbian trams can have another problem with LV4. LV4 raises the base costs. Maybe the running costs of the trams are much too high then.
03:31:27  <fjb> How do you cound tiles without the grid?
03:32:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have to count tiles, the game does that :-)
03:33:11  <fjb> How?
03:33:38  <fjb> I'm hitting the plane limit of this server soon. :-(
03:33:58  <Gonozal_VIII> i play nightlies, when you drag some tool there it counts the length
03:35:26  <Gonozal_VIII> tram costs could be higher then intended, i don't know but they fit to the other vehicles and money is not an issue anyways
03:35:28  <fjb> Oh, I never noticed that...
03:36:22  <fjb> I could never make any profid with trams in combination with LV4. The running costs are raised 8 times by LV4.
03:37:08  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm how much running cost does your most expensive tram have?
03:38:14  <Gonozal_VIII> 4300 euro per year is the rotram which can hold 202 passengers... that's ok
03:39:23  <fjb> It should be 1/8 of that. You can never make any profit on the short distances that trams are going that way.
03:39:39  <fjb> Compare it to the running costs of the busses.
03:39:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't use them as stand alone transport, they only transfer to airports or docks
03:40:16  <Gonozal_VIII> and train stations of course..
03:41:15  <Gonozal_VIII> the dolphin intercity bus has 120 passengers and 3100 euro per year
03:41:17  <fjb> I also do. But why should I use them, when busses with equal size are making profit.
03:41:38  <Gonozal_VIII> and my trams always make profit :-)
03:41:38  <fjb> Hm, than it is almost equal.
03:41:47  <Gonozal_VIII> it's so easy to make profit...
03:42:03  <fjb> Then the tramset is "optimized" for LV4 and has no problems. :-)
03:42:25  <fjb> Yes, the bigger problem is to spend the money.
03:43:05  <Gonozal_VIII> just to get rid of the money you could always blow up some water....
03:43:13  <fjb> The problem with ECs is to connect the imoportant things before they are closing down. :-)
03:43:26  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
03:43:42  <fjb> Blowing up water? Never tryed it. Maybe I could get some fish that way.
03:44:21  <Gonozal_VIII> costs a lot and doesn't change anything because it floods
03:44:30  <fjb> I never understand why people prefer to play on a flat world. Where is the fun then? Isn't it getting boring that easy?
03:45:08  <fjb> Doesn't di anything and is fun. :-)
03:45:17  <fjb> do
03:46:15  <Gonozal_VIII> i play on difficulty hard (custom because i set competitors to 0)
03:46:54  <Gonozal_VIII> and since ecs mostly small maps like 256^2
03:47:33  <Gonozal_VIII> coop with a friend most of the time
03:48:34  <fjb> And I always allow trains to change direction in stations. It is stupid when they are not allowed to do it. Doesn't make the game more difficult, is just stupid. I never heard that a train drove to the other side of a country because it couldn't change it's direction in any station.
03:48:59  <fjb> 256² is too small for realistic trains. :-)
03:49:12  <Gonozal_VIII> no i don't like that changing direciton in stations...
03:49:44  <Gonozal_VIII> and... enable building very long trains: off
03:49:53  <fjb> I'm trying to get e friend into it. He really likes the game, but doen't like to play with me. He usually wins every game, but i'm better at this game. So he doen't want to play with me.
03:50:18  <fjb> Why do you only build short trains?
03:50:38  <Gonozal_VIII> it's a bit harder then
03:51:07  <Gonozal_VIII> i also set the weight multiplier at least to 5
03:51:37  <fjb> But looks a bit ridicules when a havy fright engine only has 5 wagons.
03:51:58  <Gonozal_VIII> 9 wagons :-)
03:52:03  <fjb> Most engines still lough about that weight. :-)
03:52:43  <Gonozal_VIII> could try a higher setting now with the narrow gauge set... when i tested them they were very good at climbing hills
03:53:17  <fjb> And what is the disabvantage of allowing trainsd to turn in stations? That only leads to building a turn around the station or after the station.
03:54:04  <Gonozal_VIII> they never have to do that in my networks
03:54:21  <fjb> Real freight engines easily pull 80 or more wagons.
03:54:24  <Gonozal_VIII> only roro stations
03:54:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't see such big trains around here
03:55:37  <fjb> The satnadard roro design that gets proposed looks always the same and doesn't look any realistic. It always looks like standard TTD design. :-)
03:56:08  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- that's one of my standard designs
03:56:11  <fjb> You only see that trains on the main lines. And they usually go by night.
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03:57:27  <Gonozal_VIII> but not that big usually... that size is only vor huge ammounts of freight
03:57:45  <fjb> I have seen that before. Takes much room. but ooks like a toy design, not like a real station. :-)
03:58:23  <fjb> You see trains that long on the main lines in germany, north to south, east to west.
03:58:56  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm here at a small sideline in austria, our trains have 3-4 cars...
03:59:09  <fjb> One of that trais derailed last year in Hannover. Not much happened, they only nedded some ours to put it back onto the rails.
03:59:35  <fjb> Be lucky that a sideline is still serviced today. :-)
04:00:30  <Gonozal_VIII> they were talking about shutting it down several times...
04:00:55  <fjb> You could look at the airial pictures of big stations on google maps. That is real fun. :-)
04:01:12  <Gonozal_VIII> that's stupid, road traffic gets more and more and rail transport is now less then 50 years ago
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04:01:59  <Gonozal_VIII> you're strike won't help to get more passengers/goods onto the rails either
04:02:06  <Gonozal_VIII> your..
04:02:14  <Gonozal_VIII> always mix that up when typing
04:03:14  <Gonozal_VIII> last week at the station in linz i saw many trains leaving, not a single delay...
04:03:28  <Gonozal_VIII> and then there is a german train... 50 minutes late
04:03:48  <fjb> It is really sad. The rail is dying and you can't use the streads anymore because of more and more and bigger and bigger trucks.
04:04:24  <Gonozal_VIII> the trucks should only be used to bring the stuff to the next railstation, not more
04:04:43  <fjb> Don't talk about the german railway. It's stupid what they are doing now. Everybody loughs at them.
04:06:36  <fjb> He, he, I'm doing nothing in the game while we are chatting now. My company stays in good chape. The companies of the other players who left the game are getting worse and worse. :-)
04:07:23  <Gonozal_VIII> well... you have lots of planes... all planes crash after some time
04:08:27  <fjb> Only one crashed for me in this game. :-)
04:09:05  <fjb> Did you see my "steeling" picture? The player made a stupid failure with his roro station...
04:10:19  <Gonozal_VIII> they have very sharp corners...
04:10:41  <Gonozal_VIII> tight... not sharp... don't know
04:11:10  <Gonozal_VIII> but should work
04:11:54  <Gonozal_VIII> oh..
04:12:05  <Gonozal_VIII> the depot exit leads back to the station
04:12:19  <fjb> He has many trains at that station. They are waiting for the freight and then want to go to the depot when leaving. There they lock. And it needs months for them to unlock. At least it unlocks. But in the meantime I'm getting all the freight. :-)
04:13:11  <Gonozal_VIII> that's indeed stupid of him
04:14:05  <Gonozal_VIII> and the trains shouldn't service after loading....
04:14:15  <fjb> But he build a large pyramid in the see with his HQ on the top before leaving. very cool. :-)
04:14:28  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe i did that too
04:14:49  <Gonozal_VIII> or in the water on water level surrounded by canal tiles
04:14:59  <fjb> he put a sign on it with his name. I put a sign over it. :-)
04:15:07  <Gonozal_VIII> but i wouldn't do that on multiplayer...
04:15:39  <fjb> That last idea is indeed cool. But the pyramid is not cool.
04:16:17  <fjb> In multiplayer it is there to show the other players that he is the king. But he isn't. :-)
04:16:30  <fjb> I'm better and I started later. :-)
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04:18:36  <Gonozal_VIII> i like roro stations better than your design, especially with the long lines without signals in front of it... i think a single roro platform would be able to have the same throughput
04:18:46  <fjb> I'm the only one using road vehicles. The other are making the station aerea big.
04:19:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i try to use every kind of transportation in my games
04:19:31  <Gonozal_VIII> ships can make a good profit btw
04:20:00  <fjb> Infact the long lines are train lenght and not nedded. I usually don't build them but I wanted to be on the safe side because the better loading is not enabled in that game.
04:20:38  <fjb> I like ships, but there is no water near my airport. Else I had used ships.
04:21:09  <fjb> I stole him the passengers from his heli station using busses. :-)
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04:21:30  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaand you do realise that the depots have a combo inside which renders the entry signals in front of your station useless
04:21:35  <fjb> It's more fun to be better with seamingly less capable vehicles. :-)
04:22:49  <fjb> Yes, I'm aware of that. It still works. The new pathfinder is not that stupid. You often can get away without signal blocks.
04:23:55  <Gonozal_VIII> it is a signal block.. but it has three exits, if both platforms are full, the next train will enter the depot and the entry signal doesn't do anything
04:24:07  <fjb> I'm still experimenting with this design. I sometimes build the depots outside the station.
04:25:19  <fjb> The train is waiting in front of the presignal and not going into the depot. There is a plain signal in the depot, not a block end signal.
04:25:30  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
04:25:44  <Gonozal_VIII> it should be a combo
04:26:00  <fjb> My planes don't keep up with the goods from the factory. :-(
04:26:01  <Gonozal_VIII> if it's not, then it is a entry
04:26:17  <Gonozal_VIII> but not plain
04:26:33  <fjb> Don't know for sure what it is, but it is no exit signal.
04:26:38  <Gonozal_VIII> it keeps the trains inside when exits are blocked
04:26:42  <fjb> Then it is an entry signal.
04:26:59  <Gonozal_VIII> seems to be... i thought it was a combo
04:28:47  <Gonozal_VIII> but combo or entry doesn't matter for the way i use it
04:29:13  <fjb> How do you build you station design in the mountains?
04:29:29  <Gonozal_VIII> lots smaller^^
04:30:03  <Gonozal_VIII> there are only one or two platforms needed for most industries
04:30:42  <fjb> The depot needs stimm some room.
04:30:53  <Gonozal_VIII> that design is for games without ecs where a single factory can produce tens of thousands of goods
04:31:54  <fjb> Oh, this factore is making more than 1200 boxes...
04:32:30  <fjb> Most are mine. :-)
04:32:40  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm talking mor like 40k crates :-)
04:32:49  <fjb> No wonder my planes are not able to keep up.
04:33:49  <fjb> I'm usually plaing with ECS. I'm not used to that numbers.
04:34:34  <Gonozal_VIII> ecs hasn't been around for long, i played many years with standard industries
04:35:49  <fjb> I know TTD since abou 2 months ago.
04:36:56  <fjb> The planes in 0.5.3 are sloooooooooow....
04:37:43  <Gonozal_VIII> vehicle speeds are not the same for different vehicle types there...
04:37:55  <Gonozal_VIII> was the same in ttd
04:38:06  <Gonozal_VIII> a train could overtake a plane :-)
04:38:10  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
04:38:47  <fjb> :-)
04:38:47  <Gonozal_VIII> and yes... depot has entry, not combo
04:39:00  <fjb> But the planes are really sloooooooow...
04:39:02  <fjb> :-)
04:39:20  <Gonozal_VIII> why don't you just play nightly or 0.6.0 beta?
04:39:41  <fjb> He has 4 passengers at his heli station, I'm having 608 at the bus stop next to it. :-)
04:40:17  <Gonozal_VIII> do you have a statue in that town?
04:40:23  <fjb> Because this is a public server. I'm playing nightly builds when i'm playing alone or with friends.
04:40:37  <Gonozal_VIII> increases rating by 10%
04:40:50  <fjb> Yes, but it was that way even before I build the statue.
04:41:29  <Gonozal_VIII> there are also public nightly and 0.6 servers
04:41:38  <fjb> I have more busses than he helicopters. :-)
04:42:07  <fjb> This is dehidrals server. Just wanted to try it.
04:42:13  <Gonozal_VIII> ah i see
04:42:31  <Gonozal_VIII> helis are nice for tourists :-)
04:42:51  <fjb> Yes, or for getting fish. :-)
04:43:24  <Gonozal_VIII> i sometimes connect some towns where i transport passengers by train, mail with trucks and tourists take the helis
04:43:58  <fjb> But the ultimate fishing tool is the Skylift.
04:44:23  <fjb> Not a bad choice. Tourists are paying good.
04:44:58  <fjb> I usually build a heli port next to my HQ. For the important guests... :-)
04:45:32  <Gonozal_VIII> most of the time i don't build the hq at all
04:48:19  <fjb> I'm usually building it late in the game, in one of the cities where I started. It is just kind of a connection to that cities, home of my company. Once I put my first locomotion in front of the HQ. Lokked nice.
04:49:10  <Gonozal_VIII> you put your first engine on an abandoned track in front of your hq?
04:49:21  <Gonozal_VIII> sounds like a nice idea :-)
04:49:23  <fjb> Yes. :-)
04:51:39  <fjb> The HQ was on a hill above the city. The first line ran nort far behind the HQ. The engine was in a depot, don't remember why I hadn't sold it. Mybe I had forgotten about it. I build a line to the front of the HQ, moved the engine there and removed the line.
04:52:06  <Gonozal_VIII> cool :-)
04:52:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have forgotten engines because i use autoreplace...
04:53:10  <fjb> Once I put my first "Rheingold" express train at an unsused track next to a station for display and fun of the tourists after it was too old to use it.
04:53:53  <fjb> When it just stays in the depot without ever leaving it the engine doesn't get replaced.
04:54:34  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but i don't put engines into the depot and leave them there
04:54:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i either assign them to another line or sell them
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04:56:05  <fjb> I build a better engine for the freight train and wanted to build a passenger train with that old engine. But the passenger train never got build...
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04:57:01  <Gonozal_VIII> "fuß-sandwich-contest" on pro 7....
04:57:18  <fjb> And later in the game I was glad to still have this cute old engine.
04:57:36  <fjb> Oh, I should go to bed. :-)
04:58:08  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have to go to uni until 16:30 today :-)
04:59:25  <nairan> gonozal: it wasi torist center =P
04:59:35  <nairan> but shouldnt it tourist center?
05:00:08  <Gonozal_VIII> what where when?
05:00:13  <fjb> I have to go shopping today. Have to ear something. :-)
05:00:25  <fjb> Good night. :-)
05:00:30  <Gonozal_VIII> good night
05:01:02  <nairan> in georges esc set
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05:01:27  <Gonozal_VIII> "Tourists centre"
05:02:01  <nairan> hmm here its written wrong.
05:02:34  <Gonozal_VIII> what version?
05:03:06  <Gonozal_VIII> 10 Nov 2007 20:23 <-- ?
05:03:28  <nairan> nope =)
05:03:54  <nairan> did he releast a new versioh of some of his vectors?`
05:04:17  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, 12 days ago
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05:04:54  <Gonozal_VIII> not only some, most are new
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06:54:44  <blathijs> Sacro: I've a tad busy this week, so no debs yet
07:00:28  <Rubidium> how can blathijs be busy? he's always doing stuff ;)
07:05:33  <blathijs> I should have done them in the train yesterday, that's when I usually have some spare time
07:05:48  <blathijs> (Which I spent on coding newpools a bit further :-)
07:06:26  <blathijs> The old pools have improved quite a bit as well, btw, especially in the way new and delete are now overloaded :-)
07:11:11  <blathijs> Building debs now :-)
07:12:32  <Rubidium> push push push! ;)
07:15:00  <blathijs> bah, failed
07:18:36  <blathijs> Ah, we switched to ./configure && make somewhere between 0.5 and 6.0 :-)
07:18:37  <blathijs> uh
07:18:39  <blathijs> 0.6
07:18:58  <blathijs> hmm, debian stuff needs updating in my local tree then
07:19:11  <blathijs> Outta time, more during class in a few minutes :-)
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07:48:22  <blathijs> So, building again
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07:54:56  <blathijs> Rubidium: Uploading now
07:57:01  <Rubidium> I hope you can add them yourself to the SF and openttd page (don't have the passwords here)
08:01:42  <blathijs> Uh, dunno if I can do the sf thing
08:01:45  <blathijs> I'll try :-)
08:04:34  <blathijs> Oeh, I have an admin tab in SF :-)
08:06:32  <Rubidium> isn't that 'magical'?
08:06:37  <Rubidium> and lovely?
08:09:11  <blathijs> :-)
08:09:25  <blathijs> They're added to SF
08:09:54  <blathijs> but I'm gonna wait a bit with adding them to the site, so SF can actually offer them for download on some mirror
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08:13:58  <Rubidium> blathijs: you just need to add the md5 checksums and I don't think that needs to wait
08:14:15  <Rubidium> it's only causing it to be forgotten
08:17:37  <blathijs> I added the checksums
08:17:48  <blathijs> Ah, the link is already there :-)
08:17:56  <blathijs> hmm, College break
08:17:57  <blathijs> brb
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09:25:53  <dihedral> morning
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09:34:28  <dev|ant> evenin
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10:35:54  <dihedral> i dont find an awful lot of info on pause_on_newgame
10:36:22  <Tefad> dihedral: it is helpful for when mapmaking takes a long time and you walk away from the machine
10:36:47  <dihedral> in regards to a dedicated server?
10:36:53  <Tefad> the program generates the map, then enters the game paused
10:37:07  <dihedral> could it mean that it will not unpause as soon as the first client joins?
10:37:10  <Tefad> why it would be useful on a server? dunno
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10:37:32  <dihedral> well - if it did unpause on first client, then the game would not proceed until then
10:37:39  <Tefad> if it is set to unpause on first client, it should unpause
10:37:43  <dihedral> i.e. if nothing happens there is no need to advance the game
10:37:50  <dihedral> thanks
10:38:06  <Tefad> i have no experience, but what i describe makes the most sense to me.
10:38:18  <Tefad> i think it's helpful for when you're running say.. a local game
10:38:35  <dihedral> yes - but it might be a prob on a dedicated server :-)
10:38:46  <Tefad> can clients connect before a map is finished?
10:38:50  <dihedral> if for example it needs unpause via rcon to unpause the game
10:47:39  <Wezz6400> afaik if you have a dedicated server set to pause when no clients are connected, it will pause when it's started
10:48:02  <Wezz6400> for the previous versions it did that, I'd be suprised if this new setting would change that
10:49:19  <Tefad> i have three ideas for what this option does for multiplayer: "nothing" "pauses until rcon unpauses" "pauses until the first player connects"
10:50:13  <Tefad> i doubt it's "nothing"
10:50:54  <Tefad> my guess would be it requires an unpause.
10:54:18  <Brianetta>
10:54:23  <Brianetta> Those Pendolinos rock
10:54:37  <dihedral> :-P
10:56:09  <dihedral> i thought they were electric
10:56:20  <Tefad> i see the thing on top
10:56:27  <Tefad> i suck at train terms
11:04:56  <Wezz6400> that looks like smoke from a steam locomotive o.O
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11:33:04  <Unknown_Entity> i need some advice. are these errors i'm getting a problem in the openttd code or in my ds port? note that int32 is defined as "signed long int" on the DS
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12:14:03  <dev|ant> Unknown_Entity: it seems to be your compiler being very fussy
12:14:32  <dev|ant> by the strictest of rules the errors are probably there, but any compiler should be able to overcome them
12:17:28  <Unknown_Entity> dev|ant: is there a compile flag to avoid the errors?
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12:18:10  <dev|ant> dunno. what complier are you using?
12:19:07  <Unknown_Entity> some gcc variant
12:19:15  <dev|ant> you could probably cast the arguments to the functions it's complaining about
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12:20:49  <Unknown_Entity> that'd be pretty ugly though, wouldn't it?
12:22:42  <dev|ant> it's only once for each error. I'm not a good judge of ugly. ;)
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12:23:55  <Unknown_Entity> it's a lot of errors though. i onuy posted a few examples
12:24:39  <dev|ant> oh
12:25:11  <Unknown_Entity> and some warnings on top of it...
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12:29:11  <dihedral> is there a limit for how many ip's can be banned in one running game?
12:30:23  <Unknown_Entity> but i do think more strict use of types in openttd is necessary. right now it just assumes that int and int32 are the same.
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12:51:30  <LeviathNL> can someone explain or point me to documentation of xxxx ? yyyy : zzzzz;
12:51:59  <LeviathNL> google doesn't like "?" and ":"   :)
12:52:42  <dihedral> if( xxxx ) { yyyy } else { zzzzz }
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12:57:56  <LeviathNL> is there anything similar for java?
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13:00:50  <dihedral> yes
13:01:13  <dihedral> ( var == true ) ? something : somethineelse ;
13:01:37  <dihedral> var = ( true ) ? 'hello' : 'world';
13:01:44  <hylje> why var == true ?
13:01:44  <hylje> isnt it liek dredundant in everything nowadays?
13:01:49  <hylje> redundant
13:01:52  <dihedral> nope
13:01:54  <dihedral> well
13:02:10  <dihedral> just to make a point
13:02:12  <dihedral> nothing else
13:02:15  <hylje> k
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13:19:23  <LeviathNL> this does not work:  var ? x = foo : x = bar;    ?
13:20:45  <dihedral> does - just one x = can be saved
13:20:55  <dihedral> depending on the actuall length of x that can make a big diff
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13:34:05  <fjb> Moin
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13:40:35  <dihedral> moin
13:40:37  <dihedral> :-P
13:41:03  <fjb> :-P
13:41:26  <dihedral> btw. got 0.6.0-beta1 on / Fair Play 1 :-)
13:41:27  <fjb> I have seen you made server 1 with 0.6 and some grfs. :-)
13:41:31  <fjb> :-)
13:41:34  <dihedral> i beat you to it - haha
13:41:44  <fjb> Yes, by one tick. :-)
13:41:59  <dihedral>
13:42:03  <fjb> But I mentioned also the grfs. :-P
13:42:21  <fjb> I'm still compiling 0.6.
13:42:59  <fjb> I never played with the UK set. But Pikkas Planes are great. You have to try them one day.
13:43:54  <dihedral> oh - shoot - i forgot av8
13:44:00  <dihedral> heh - next game
13:44:03  <fjb> :-P
13:44:08  <dihedral> thankfully i have the reload config patch :-D
13:44:16  <fjb> :-P
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13:47:37  <dihedral> hey frosch123
13:47:51  <frosch123> hello dihedral
13:48:03  <dihedral> would you be the one i could address for base cost grf stuff?
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13:48:49  <dihedral> was kinda interested what 'miscellaneous' is for? 4b34
13:49:43  <frosch123> no idea
13:50:50  <dihedral> :-)
13:50:52  <dihedral> k
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13:59:41  <Wezz6400> dihedral did you ever publish that web interface for changing the config file?
14:00:47  <dihedral> it's not mine
14:00:51  <dihedral> it's from Progman
14:01:22  <dihedral> i am wanting to work towards a rewrite
14:01:30  <dihedral> but there are too many things i wand / need to do
14:01:36  <dihedral> so that is kinda stalled
14:07:05  <fjb> dihedral: The banks don't accept valuables. Does TTRS need a switch for it?
14:07:24  <glx> put ttrs3 after ecs
14:07:36  <dihedral> it's pbi
14:07:47  <dihedral> i would be using dbsetXL with ecs
14:09:19  <glx> <-- may give you an answer fjb
14:09:40  <dihedral> it's on my server where the issue lies :-P
14:09:42  <dihedral> :-(
14:10:01  <dihedral> and again - i am using pbi not ecs
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14:12:58  <Wezz6400> hmm too bad, sounded like a great thing
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14:13:11  <Wezz6400> oh well I suppose SSH and pico works fine :)
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14:14:36  <fjb> Shit, I guess I have to close my company. I don't find a way out of the hills that I can afford..
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14:31:03  <dihedral> would it be possible to not have the 'rais/lower land' cost affect building on slopes
14:31:09  <dihedral> as it is something else actually
14:31:21  <dihedral> building on slopes is not terraforming
14:31:43  <glx> but you must pay for the foundations
14:31:56  <dihedral> yes
14:32:03  <dihedral> but not as much as for terraforming?
14:32:31  <fjb> Building foundations costs much more than terraforming in real.
14:32:38  <dihedral> because if a grf changes address 4bb2 to make terraforming more expensive (i.e. 32x)
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14:33:10  <dihedral> which would have the affect of preserving the landscape and avoid 'flooding' of having a huge affect on the map
14:33:31  <dihedral> then it would at least not 32x the foundation cost
14:35:09  <Gonozal_VIII> would only make sense if you draw some sort of wooden pole foundation, building a wall and filling half of the tile costs at least the same as filling the whole tile
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14:37:59  <dihedral> but then again - you might want to 'punish' terraformers, while not those building legit tracks which may be on slopes
14:39:24  <Gonozal_VIII> but i read something about a "dirt pile" idea on the forum, where every terraform down adds dirt and up removes dirt... with that you could charge more, if the pile (could only be a number) is far below or over 0
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14:40:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i think that shouldn't be too hard to implement
14:45:19  <dihedral> 'implement' in this case means you need modified server _and_ client
14:45:31  <dihedral> unless it makes it's way misteriously into trunk!
14:46:10  <Wezz6400> if it's a good idea and you code properly that's no problem
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15:19:11  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe tunnels for ships :-)
15:19:25  <dihedral> LOL
15:19:43  <Gonozal_VIII>
15:20:03  <hylje> haha what
15:22:01  <fjb> It's funny. But I would prefer bridges for ships. I have often seen canals crossing on bridges.
15:22:30  <Gonozal_VIII> yes but i've never seen a tunnel
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15:24:05  <fjb> It's called tube... :-)
15:27:43  <Wezz6400> water tunnels, seems kind of pointless
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15:29:59  <fjb> Hm, not if you have a submarine. :-)
15:40:34  <Wezz6400> well I don't see subs being used for any kind of transport
15:44:31  <fjb> They are transportating nuclear devices...
15:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> not german subs
15:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> at least officially ;)
15:49:56  <dihedral> lol
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15:51:34  <fjb> :-)
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15:56:39  <Wezz6400> fjb I wouldn't say transporting
15:56:46  <Wezz6400> that's not the purpose
16:00:09  <dihedral> lol
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17:04:24  <Sacro> grr
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17:10:30  <fjb> ?
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17:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you can pet him, he only wants to play
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17:39:22  <Wolf01> hello
17:39:42  <LeviathNL> hi
17:39:44  <LordAzamath> hey. I want to compile an old revision (dead 32bpp-branch-10201) in Linux. I go to shell and write in ./configure and then make. It says that  bash: make: command not found
17:40:07  <LordAzamath> what have I done wrnog
17:40:25  <LeviathNL> what distro?
17:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAzamath: why would you compile 32bpp branch, when 32bpp is in trunk?
17:40:36  <LordAzamath> Mandriva2008
17:40:42  <Wolf01> zooming maybe
17:40:47  <LordAzamath> yup
17:40:58  <LordAzamath> I want to test some things in zoom in
17:41:27  <LordAzamath> I just installed lots of things so maybe I missed something
17:41:40  <LordAzamath> at beginning I didn't have even svn
17:41:43  <LeviathNL> urpmi make ?
17:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if you don't have make, the first thing i'd try to do is install make...
17:42:14  <LordAzamath> I should be superuser maybe? for urpmi?
17:42:32  <LeviathNL> yes
17:43:14  <LeviathNL> first type su
17:43:22  <LordAzamath> yea I know :)
17:43:32  <LordAzamath> I just haven't compiled anything before :D
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17:44:37  <LordAzamath> wohooo
17:44:38  <LordAzamath> thanks
17:44:44  <LordAzamath> it now compiles
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17:46:24  <SmatZ> evening
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17:52:19  <spark_> hi
17:52:46  <spark_> in detailed performance rating, what is "Min. profit" ?
17:54:03  <LordAzamath> ok...It didn't start, but I found a clue that maybe I was compiling a dedicated server :D       WARNING: no video driver found, building dedicated only
17:54:19  <LordAzamath> it happened while./configure
17:54:41  <LordAzamath> so I svn'd another one, which has makefiles already
17:54:45  <LordAzamath> maybe helps
17:55:50  <LeviathNL> sdl image library ?
17:55:59  <LordAzamath> ok...actually it doesn't :( and re ./configure-ing gives me this
17:56:00  <LordAzamath> [madis@localhost 32bpp]$ ./configurechecking awk... awkchecking build system type... i586-mandriva-linux-gnuchecking host system type... i586-mandriva-linux-gnudetecting OS... UNIXchecking universal build... nochecking build cc... gccchecking host cc... gccchecking build c++... g++checking host c++... g++checking host strip... stripchecking makedepend... not foundchecking static... nochecking unicode... nousing debug level... nochecking SDL
17:56:00  <LordAzamath> checking GDI video driver... not Windows, skippingWARNING: no video driver found, building dedicated onlychecking dedicated... foundchecking network... foundchecking translator... nochecking assert... enabledchecking zlib... foundchecking libpng... not foundchecking libfreetype... not foundchecking libfontconfig... not foundchecking iconv... not OSX, skippingchecking psp-config... not PSP, skippingchecking libtimidity... not foundchecking d
17:56:00  <LordAzamath> t... sortchecking endianess... AUTOsuppress language errors... nochecking stripping... strip -schecking OSX sysroot... not OSX, skippingchecking OSX application bundle... not OSX, skippingchecking revision... svn detectionusing CFLAGS...  -DUNIX -DWITH_REV -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -Wno-multichar -Wsign-compare -Wundef -Wwrite-strings -Wpointer-arith -W -Wno-unused-parameter -DWITH_ZLIB -DDEDICATED -DENABLE_NETWORK  -Wstrict-prototypes
17:56:00  <LordAzamath> itionusing LDFLAGS... -lstdc++ -lpthread -lrt -lc -lzGenerating Makefile...Generating lang/Makefile...Generating objs/Makefile...
17:56:21  <LordAzamath> I have sdl installed...I think
17:56:43  <LordAzamath> but I have libpng installed too, although it shows I haven't
17:56:47  <dihedral> LordAzamath: you dont think i'm gonna read that are you?
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17:56:52  <dihedral> *do you
17:56:59  <LordAzamath> :D
17:57:16  <dihedral> libpng-dev?
17:57:49  <LordAzamath> wait a sec...checking it out
17:57:59  <LeviathNL> and libssdl-image-dev ?
17:58:32  <dihedral> -dev is what you need when compiling stuff :-)
17:58:39  <LordAzamath> oh..
17:58:41  <LordAzamath> ok
17:58:53  <dihedral> and i beleive there is a wiki page and forums thread about it :-D
17:59:01  <LordAzamath> I thought they are just development releases
17:59:18  <LordAzamath> like....beta's or
17:59:20  <LordAzamath> ...
17:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> spark_: what each of your vehicles get per year, you take the minimum
18:00:19  <dihedral> LordAzamath: header files?
18:00:28  <dihedral> for "dev"elopment
18:00:31  <dihedral> :-)
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18:02:14  <LeviathNL> how are signals stored in the map-array?
18:02:23  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:02:56  <LeviathNL> already found it in doc/landscape.html
18:02:57  <LordAzamath> oh...I'm so stupid :( I'll try urpmi libpng-dev....I can't select it in the software-adding list. It just gives me error message, "can't selevt it"
18:03:01  <SmatZ> spark_: taken into account are only vehicles older than 2 years ... or so
18:03:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11490 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
18:03:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split the math functions to their own header
18:03:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replace the rest of the math macros with functions
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18:06:11  <LeviathNL> how doable would signals in between tiles be? It would improve 2way railroad switching incredibly.
18:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> in itself it would not be difficult, what is a problem is the conversion of old savegames
18:09:03  *** G [~njones@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:12:32  <LeviathNL> can you give me an example of what track/signal-configuration would cause problems?
18:14:49  <Wezz6400> Eddi|zuHause well you could still keep the old signals for backwards compatible, but just make it so that users cannot create them anymore
18:15:14  <Wezz6400> or maybe you could just make it an option or something, though I doubt anyone would want to stick to the current way
18:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Wezz6400: no, that uses too much prescious map space
18:17:31  <LordAzamath> Thousand thanks to everyone. I compiled it and it seems to work. Although it can't save a thing...BUT that's not the problem :D I gout it to work...So thousand thanks to you all
18:17:59  <LeviathNL> Could it be made the game detects if the savegame uses the old behavior and switches to the old signal placing (users can't use signals inbetween tiles playing that savegame)
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18:18:29  <Wezz6400> Eddi|zuHause ah yes, the limitations of an old game :(
18:18:41  <LeviathNL> if that is possible having it as an patch-options seems also not to difficult to me.
18:19:18  <LeviathNL> that way the new and old signal-behaviors are not saved together in 1 savegame.
18:22:31  *** skidd13 [] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.]
18:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it adds maintenance overhead, because you have to keep the outdated code
18:28:38  *** ActySofts [~Desolator@] has joined #openttd
18:28:50  <ActySofts> hello all
18:29:11  *** ActySofts is now known as Desolator
18:29:33  *** spark_ [] has left #openttd [thanks ;)]
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18:30:13  <Desolator> I can't get open to run on ubuntu gutsy (7.10), r11489
18:30:33  <LeviathNL> because?
18:30:45  <Desolator> I wouldn't be asking here if I knew
18:30:49  <Desolator> it just hangs...
18:31:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a great description of your problem
18:31:19  <Desolator> well ask me what to tell, I got no idea what to say
18:31:28  <LeviathNL> does it start at all?
18:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> start with -d3
18:32:04  <Desolator> I can see it in the system monitor as running, but I don't see any clue of it actually running
18:32:07  <Desolator> i'll try
18:32:07  <LordAzamath> what does it do when you start in console
18:32:17  <LordAzamath> maybe it's a dedicated build you have
18:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's quite likely
18:32:38  <Desolator> I don't have a dedi build since I compiled it and I know pretty sure what I'm compiling ;)
18:32:41  <LordAzamath> I had this once and was very furious that it din't start :D
18:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> you need sdl-dev, or it compiles dedicated build automatically
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18:33:15  <Desolator> I have it
18:33:23  <Desolator> hmm, I guess I found the error:
18:33:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but still, start with -d3 and give the last messages
18:33:40  <Desolator> dbg: [grf] LoadNewGRFFile: Reading NewGRF-file 'newgrf/pikkabird/pb_viaduct/'
18:33:47  <Desolator> I guess that's the problem
18:33:57  <Desolator> it should check if you told it to load a file or not ;)
18:34:01  <LeviathNL> does not seem like a error to me
18:34:20  <Desolator> there it hangs...and after a minute it quits
18:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause> loading a directory does not seem like a great idea to me:p
18:34:36  <Desolator> yeay, a copy-paste typo
18:34:46  <LeviathNL> remove it from openttd.cfg and try again?
18:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause> a copy-pasto
18:35:40  <Desolator> alright, fixed it
18:35:53  <LordAzamath> "copy-pasto" is like copy-paste typo?
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18:36:04  <LordAzamath> :d
18:36:50  <Desolator> now, I use "sudo make install", but after it finishes and I type "openttd" in the console it says it's not installed and suggests using "sudo apt-get install openttd". What's wrong, shouldn't it install the nightly and make it possible to run it directly?
18:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i just made that one up :p
18:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never tried installing, can't help you there
18:38:11  <Desolator> either something is wrong either ubuntu hates me
18:38:49  <LeviathNL> is the binairie in /usr/local/games/openttd ?
18:38:50  <Desolator> mircea@actysofts-ubuntu:~$ openttd
18:38:51  <Desolator> The program 'openttd' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
18:38:51  <Desolator> sudo apt-get install openttd
18:38:51  <Desolator> bash: openttd: command not found
18:38:55  <LeviathNL> binary
18:39:07  * Desolator checks
18:39:23  <Desolator> yep
18:39:36  <LeviathNL> try cd /usr/local/bin/ and then sudo ln /usr/local/games/openttd/openttd
18:40:23  <Prof_Frink> or `PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/games/openttd/`
18:40:43  <Desolator> thanks!
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18:41:33  <Desolator> now where should I put it's data folder and so?
18:42:02  <LeviathNL> check /usr/local/share/games/openttd/
18:42:15  <glx> ~/.openttd/data
18:42:26  <Desolator> thanks to both of you
18:44:13  <Desolator> now, the problem is that it's read only yet in the permissions I see I have read-write
18:44:15  <Desolator> O.o
18:44:24  <Desolator> (the .openttd in home dir)
18:44:54  <Desolator> look like it's owner by root...
18:44:57  <Desolator> *owned
18:45:18  <Eddi|zuHause> /usr stuff is usally owned by root
18:45:38  <Desolator> I mean the one in /home/mircea/.openttd
18:45:41  <Desolator> how can I change the owner of a folder?
18:45:46  <hylje> chown
18:45:47  <Eddi|zuHause> chown
18:45:54  <glx> you started it as root?
18:46:08  <Desolator> I installed it as root, yes
18:46:21  <Eddi|zuHause> if you started it as root, it should put stuff in /root/.openttd
18:46:21  <Desolator> because make install failed as I didn't have permission
18:46:39  <Desolator> I installed with sudo, not on the root user
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18:47:41  <LeviathNL> chown -R mircea .openttd I think
18:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> mircea:users probably better
18:49:39  <Desolator> sudo chown -R mircea:users .openttd --> did nothing...hmmm
18:50:47  <LeviathNL> no output means usually everything worked out okay
18:51:27  <Desolator> it didn't I don't have permission...but I sent it to nowhere (deleted it) and then make install:
18:51:28  <Desolator> mircea@actysofts-ubuntu:~/Projects/OpenTTD/trunk$ make install
18:51:28  <Desolator> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mircea/Projects/OpenTTD/trunk/objs/lang'
18:51:28  <Desolator> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
18:51:28  <Desolator> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mircea/Projects/OpenTTD/trunk/objs/lang'
18:51:28  <Desolator> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mircea/Projects/OpenTTD/trunk/objs/release'
18:51:30  <Desolator> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
18:51:31  <Desolator> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mircea/Projects/OpenTTD/trunk/objs/release'
18:51:33  <Desolator> [BUNDLE] Constructing bundle
18:51:35  <Desolator> [INSTALL] Installing OpenTTD
18:51:37  <Desolator> install: cannot remove `///usr/local/games/openttd': Permission denied
18:51:39  <Desolator> make: *** [install] Error 1
18:52:02  <glx> why installing it?
18:52:31  <Desolator> it's annoying to copy the bundle all the time to a directory...make install updates it nicely
18:52:36  <Prof_Frink> Desolator: `make install` needs to be run as root (sudo), but, as glx says, there's no need to install it
18:52:55  <Desolator> then I get from where I come, .openttd not being writeable
18:54:23  <Prof_Frink> Desolator: OK then, delete (rm -r) ~/.openttd then `mkdir ~/.opentt` as your regular user.
18:54:49  <Prof_Frink> That second one should of course be ~/.openttd
18:55:25  <Desolator> ok, got it, thanks
18:55:42  <Belugas> @seen dalestan
18:55:43  <DorpsGek> Belugas: dalestan was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <DaleStan> Does that answer the question?
18:56:32  <glx> nice @ seen ;)
18:56:58  <Desolator> ok, thanks all
18:57:12  <Prof_Frink> All working now?
18:57:26  <Desolator> yep
18:57:30  <Prof_Frink> :D
18:58:09  <Belugas> yeah, he did answered the question nicely hehehe
18:58:13  <Desolator> but, why, why can't open ignore new lines and comments in the config file? it's annoying to keep two files and copy paste between them to keep the comments
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19:28:35  <Belugas> how the hell do we chat ???
19:28:40  <Belugas> i can't remember !@@#$%^
19:30:46  <Belugas> haaa.. found it
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19:51:30  <hylje> so if i want my newgrf available for all openttd instances (builds..)
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19:54:35  <yorick> Belugas: I've filled in a bug report
19:56:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11491 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
19:56:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-22 20:55:02
19:56:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 5 fixed by tucalipe (5)
19:56:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 5 fixed by arnaullv (5)
19:56:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 5 fixed by Hadez (5)
19:56:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 6 fixed, 3 changed by MiR (9)
19:56:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 fixed by habell (5)
20:00:42  <glx> <hylje> so if i want my newgrf available for all openttd instances (builds..) <-- you put them in ~/.openttd/data
20:01:20  *** Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:01:23  <hylje> thanks
20:02:55  <yorick> what's the piont of #openttd.notice?
20:03:29  <glx> FS messages
20:03:39  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
20:04:36  <yorick> FS messages ?
20:05:31  <hylje> some bot floods a rss feed off flyspray
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20:06:16  <LordAzamath> good night
20:06:31  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
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20:11:08  <Belugas> thanks yorick
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20:14:42  <Belugas> #openttd.notice allows us to view the changes in, as well as the commits
20:14:46  <Belugas> really usefull :)
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20:16:18  <_Ben_> Question:  If work derives from something, is there any key stage at which it can be released under it's own leicence?  (Refering to graphics here)
20:16:39  <_Ben_> i.e. if an image comes from another image, must it always hold the copyright spec of the original?
20:17:38  <Belugas> good question
20:17:45  <Belugas> i do not know
20:18:24  <Belugas> but i guess that as lng as the initial image is still recognizable, yes, it is still under copyright
20:18:29  <Belugas> but ain't an expert :S
20:22:51  <_Ben_> hmm, its tricky.  I'm making some tree graphics at the moment, and for the first tree I used a public domain image, but it was so differnt it wouldn't be recognisable, but for 1 I'm just starting on I'm chopping up some bits from a cc-by-sa photo
20:24:45  <Prof_Frink> _Ben_: Sounds rather like the genesis of a certain software project...
20:25:43  <_Ben_> haha, hmm
20:26:03  <yorick> do lughthouses appear automaticly?
20:26:19  <yorick> lighthouses*
20:28:06  <Belugas> during game creation , yes
20:28:14  <Belugas> but not afterward
20:28:32  <yorick> hmm
20:28:48  <yorick> just saw a lighthouse appear where I wanted to build
20:29:18  <yorick> exactly when I pushed the mouse button...
20:30:04  <hylje> :D
20:30:28  <Belugas> ?
20:30:33  <Belugas> strange
20:30:39  * Belugas checks the code
20:30:49  <yorick> you can hopefully imagine that's really annoying?
20:31:28  *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
20:31:37  <Yorick|AFK> be back in about 15 minutes
20:32:47  <hylje> Yorick|AFK: well the best thing would be to automagically spawn lighthouses wherever one tries to build stuff in case one's nickname is liek "yorick"
20:33:24  * Belugas checked, and unless it has been done by a modified client, i doubt it is ever possible. graphical glitch?
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20:44:21  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as YOrick
20:44:27  *** YOrick is now known as Yorick
20:45:04  <Yorick> Hylje: not only my nickmane is leik "yorick"
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20:45:30  <hylje> :p
20:46:24  <Yorick> Belugas: could be graphical glitch... g2g now, bye all!
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20:56:24  <ln-> wouldn't it be just annoying if you were just about to get laid and then the female exploded?
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21:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: egladil * r11492 /trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
21:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: [OSX] Split the cocoa video driver into several files. The reason
21:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: for this is that the fullscreen and windowed mode api are separate from each
21:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: other in OS X and thus the driver actual is two drivers in one. This split is to
21:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: make the code more readable and to prepare for replacing the Quickdraw windowed
21:49:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: mode code which uses apis deprecated as of OS X 10.5 (and maybe earlier).
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21:49:31  <dihedral> nice commit :-)
21:50:19  <egladil> :)
21:52:05  <dihedral> i dont know you do i?
21:52:12  <dihedral> hello :-)
21:52:34  <dihedral> 'know' < ok - bad usage
21:52:56  <dihedral> but i have never seen a commit from you... as far as i remember...
21:54:32  <egladil> well, i've done like three commits this past month, and before that last time was this spring
21:55:07  <Belugas> egladil was a member of the tfc_newmap team like glx, Rubidium and I.
21:55:25  <egladil> yep
21:55:27  <Belugas> we got "promoted" to devs at the same time after completion of the project
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21:55:51  <egladil> more like kidnapped and sold into slavery ;)
21:56:01  <Belugas> so, in fact, he is a long time friend and dev :)
21:56:02  <Belugas> lol
21:56:12  <Belugas> slavery ;)
21:56:21  <egladil> and before tfc_newmap, i wrote the cocoa driver
21:56:30  <egladil> but that's like two years ago
21:57:38  <Belugas> already?
21:57:41  <Belugas> pfffff....
21:57:45  <Belugas> time goes so fast...
21:57:53  <egladil> yeah
21:57:54  <Tefad> tfc_newmap?
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21:58:22  <Belugas> TheFrenchConnection _newmap
21:58:45  <egladil> it was a project to replace all direct access to the map array with accessor functions
21:59:05  <Belugas> it was a great adventure :)
21:59:09  <egladil> indeed :)
21:59:49  <Belugas> we started on truelight's own svn server, then got to ottd svn sever on a branch of our own,
21:59:54  <Belugas> then... well
22:00:00  <Belugas> it's done
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22:02:03  <egladil> after that we were assimilated
22:02:22  <egladil> though my real life came in the way a bit
22:02:30  <glx> and water too ;)
22:02:35  <egladil> that too :)
22:03:23  <ln-> egladil: btw...
22:04:18  <ln-> egladil: you do remember mr. blackis's patch, which implemented the fullscreen mode in a non-deprecated way?
22:04:41  <egladil> hmm... not really...
22:05:16  <egladil> refresh my memory?
22:06:22  <ln-> mr. blackis, your almost-neighbor, once wrote a patch for the OS X graphics. the patch had some speed issue, but it e.g. allowed one to apple-tab out of the fullscreen.
22:06:29  <dihedral> that sounds very good egladil
22:06:45  <dihedral> i did not know you guys were working on the same project before
22:07:00  <ln-> in fact i think the patch implemented the windowed mode in a more sensible way, too.
22:07:23  <egladil> well, if you know were i can get hold of it i'll see what can be done about it
22:07:42  <egladil> dihedral: well, i've kept a low profile since then ;)
22:07:52  <dihedral> :-P
22:07:54  <dihedral> i can tell
22:07:57  <dihedral> pretty wise too
22:08:15  <dihedral> you will know what it means in a month to be bombarded with questions from dih :-D
22:08:25  <egladil> :p
22:08:30  * dihedral waves hello to Belugas
22:08:44  <ln-> egladil: i uploaded it here, have a look:
22:08:47  <dihedral> i think skidd already ignores me - but i never asked him a bunch at all
22:08:51  * egladil sets ignore mode on dihedral just to be on the safe side
22:08:58  <egladil> ln-: thanks
22:08:58  <ln-> it most probably won't apply against the current svn trunk directly.
22:09:10  <dihedral> thanks egladil
22:09:24  <egladil> it most definitely won't ;)
22:09:25  <dihedral> i really appreciate that ;-D
22:09:32  <egladil> hehe
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22:09:41  <ln-> egladil: do you / did you live at doktor wigardhsgatan?
22:10:10  <egladil> no, i lived at gibraltargatan. but that's just around 500m away
22:11:19  <ln-> ok.. i visited the city and the relevant streets last summer.
22:12:03  * Belugas waves back at dihedral
22:12:13  <egladil> you did? without telling me?
22:12:31  <egladil> bad ln- :p
22:12:50  <ln-> i didn't see you actively online back then.. :/
22:13:19  <egladil> hum, this patch looks good. some of the changes are things that i was planning to do now that the driver is a bit more readable
22:13:58  <egladil> i'll have to thank blackis for doing the work already :)
22:14:17  <egladil> hehe, it's ok ;)
22:14:48  <ln-> i'll forward your thanks. :)
22:15:31  * Belugas goes back with its family. might be back tonight... (his tonight, of course)
22:16:00  <dihedral> Belugas: enjoy valuable time :-)
22:19:41  <ln-> egladil:
22:20:42  <egladil> cool
22:21:13  <egladil> the place i lived would be somewhat further down in the leftish part of the picture
22:22:46  <ln-> i didn't take a photo of that area unfortunately
22:23:59  <egladil>
22:26:06  <egladil> ok
22:26:38  <dihedral> hey - i am flying to gothenborg on the 30th
22:26:51  <egladil> so how come you flew with your camera over the city at all?
22:27:00  <egladil> oh? why is that?
22:27:10  <dihedral> i shall visit people in vetlanda
22:27:24  <dihedral> holsby to be precise
22:28:10  <ln-> egladil: besides being interested in Mac coding, mr. blackis also has a pilot's license.
22:28:44  <egladil> cool. /me wants a pilot's license too :)
22:29:25  <ln-> aeroklubben, sÀve flygfÀlt. :)
22:29:55  <egladil> :)
22:30:01  <egladil> i bet it's expensive though :/
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22:33:05  <egladil> dihedral: ok
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22:34:42  <dihedral> i was there for 5 months during winter 2003/04
22:34:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11493 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1472]: game crashing on savegame load because it tried to render some part of the window before the savegame conversion was done.
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22:37:10  <egladil> ok. thats the same year i moved to gothenburg in the first place :)
22:37:22  <dihedral> :-P
22:37:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11494 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1457] (r11450): cargo translation table was now loaded too late ;)
22:37:38  <dihedral> the only thing i am not friends with in sweeden, is the temperature
22:37:44  <dihedral> during winter of course
22:37:50  <Gonozal_VIII> (r11450): cargo translation table was now loaded too late ;) <--^^
22:37:57  <egladil> bah!
22:38:03  <ln-> and that's +10°C ?
22:38:06  <egladil> there's nothing wrong with the swedish winter
22:38:07  <dihedral> i am a furnece boy - i love it warm
22:38:33  <egladil> (except maybe for the fact that it's too short and doesn't start until february)
22:38:34  <dihedral> if i go for a walk for one hour and my feet are frozen stiff - then that aint great
22:38:48  <glx> was FS#1461 indeed
22:38:52  <egladil> you need better shoes ;)
22:38:56  <dihedral> egladil: no - there is nothing wrong with the winter - there is just unsuitable clothing
22:39:01  <dihedral> :-P
22:39:04  <dihedral> you beat me to it
22:39:59  <ln-> feet getting frozen is rarely a problem with proper shoes.
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22:45:12  <dihedral> ln- i am german... and most of the time are in a building when the temperature drops below 20+
22:45:23  <dihedral> hence i dont have such shoes
22:46:32  <SpComb>  it's damp, dark and four degrees here
22:46:57  <SpComb> apparently I was alone in deciding it was a good time for a walk in the woods
22:51:16  <dihedral> :-P
22:55:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11495 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r11493): some compilers fail to show warnings when they should.
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22:59:58  <Wolf01> 'night
23:00:05  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:00:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11496 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Fix: the WrightAI was using an older version of the API, effectively making it non-functional. Patch by Zuu.
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23:02:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11497 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: when removing the last item from a bucket, the bucket gets removed invalidating iterators. Based on a patch by xargonax.
23:04:24  <dihedral> Rubidium: is on fire :-P
23:04:55  <Gonozal_VIII> bucket :S
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