Log for #openttd on 1st December 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:44  <Bjarni> <-- I take that they are at a dangerous spot o_O
00:07:20  <Bjarni> <--- hahahahaha
00:07:25  <Bjarni> that's golden
00:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... that's really too much now...
00:09:44  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
00:09:46  <Wolf01> 'night
00:09:51  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
00:10:33  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: are you sure?
00:10:41  <Bjarni> who made you judge of that?
00:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> i did...
00:18:46  <Bjarni> well
00:18:51  <Bjarni> you can't
00:18:57  <Bjarni> I can though
00:19:02  <Bjarni> because I'm op and you are not
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00:33:13  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Rule is good for everyone ;)]
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00:33:41  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Not because he did it that you can too]
00:33:58  *** Belugas was kicked from #openttd by orudge [how dare you go kicking people out of this channel]
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00:38:32  <orudge> what an exciting conversation ;D
00:38:38  <Belugas> hehe
00:38:52  <Belugas> amusing, to say the least lol
00:39:14  <Belugas> how's going orudge? long time no talk
00:39:56  * ben_goodger returns from exceedingly long pub occupancy
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00:42:21  <orudge> Belugas: I'm alright, extremely busy though
00:49:21  * orudge bed
00:49:40  <Gonozal_VIII> extremely busy in bed?
00:49:45  <orudge> I wish ;)
00:50:03  <orudge> extremely busy in general
00:50:06  <orudge> Night night
00:50:11  <ben_goodger> that's surprisingly terse
00:50:17  <Gonozal_VIII> good night
00:51:40  <Belugas> night orudge, rest well :)
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00:57:12  * Belugas goes bug fixing
00:57:17  <Belugas> or at leat tries
00:57:21  <Gonozal_VIII> yay
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00:57:46  <Sacro> wtf?
00:58:49  <glx> 25 minutes to notice :)
00:58:50  <Belugas> lol
00:58:55  <Belugas> took you time
01:00:18  <Sacro> i was doing a spot of racing
01:00:59  <Belugas> so it didn't botherd you too much, as it seems ;)
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01:28:19  <Bjarni> Sacro: did you figure out what I said about you?
01:28:28  <Sacro> no
01:28:32  <Bjarni> :P
01:29:05  <Bjarni> Sacroのばか
01:29:17  <Bjarni> XD
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01:31:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11543 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp lang/english.txt):
01:31:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Give a more adequate message when trying to place an industry required to be built over a house on any other type of tiles.
01:31:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: In reference to FS#1492, and other "bugs" like that one
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01:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is weird... there is absolutely no reason for ottd to be hanging like this...
01:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i reverted all local changes, i made make clean, it still hangs
01:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> i made a new checkout, and it does not hang
01:34:54  <Bjarni> you have gremlins in your computer
01:35:19  <Belugas> i've seen it happening too, Eddi|zuHause2
01:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> i suspect a config setting...
01:35:41  <Belugas> i've kept a savegame that i need to study
01:35:42  <Gonozal_VIII> there was an ufo on your source that got bombed
01:35:47  <Belugas> when i feel like it...
01:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not a savegame
01:36:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's during map creation
01:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> random map
01:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> alpine grf
01:37:15  <glx> try same seed without grf
01:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> without grf it runs fine
01:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> seed does not matter
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01:38:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> i copied the .cfg to the new checkoud, then it hangs, too
01:38:37  <glx> try to find the breaking rev then
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01:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd first try to find the breaking config setting...
01:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> compiling takes forever...
01:43:20  <Bjarni> forever is a really long time
01:43:28  <Bjarni> I will not stay up and wait for it then
01:43:30  <Bjarni> goodnight
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01:47:25  <SpComb>
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01:48:06  <SpComb> it's moving around in the kitchen while I sit on the sofa here, I can hear it quite clearly
01:48:46  <Gonozal_VIII> you need uranium ore
01:49:13  <SpComb> I wouldn't mind finding a piece of cheese somewhere, that's what the plate there is meant for
01:49:44  <SpComb> hmm, it's not in that photo - I tried to investigate the real effect of cheese upon rats
01:58:14  <Gonozal_VIII> rats laugh
01:59:29  <Gonozal_VIII> ultrasonic
02:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> uranium cheese...
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02:17:54  <beanie> !help
02:19:03  <Belugas> what's up?
02:19:03  <Gonozal_VIII>
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02:19:29  <Gonozal_VIII> sorry...
02:19:40  <Belugas> an accident?
02:19:41  <beanie> i need the grf-files. i thougt i found them in the svn, but i cant remember :f
02:19:50  <Belugas> which grf files?
02:20:06  <beanie> "OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files in order to function."
02:20:18  <glx> that's quite explicit
02:20:39  <Belugas> indeed :)
02:21:45  <beanie> ... :)
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02:47:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11544 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1501]: revert r11453 as it translated cargo when it should not
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02:59:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11545 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp lang/english.txt): -Revert(r11543): The result is not what was expected. Looks like more work might be needed
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03:56:20  <Belugas> yeah... me too
03:56:27  * Belugas goes to sleep
03:57:05  <gono_ping_timeout> night
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09:27:13  <hylje> there's a steam loco (and train) coming along with santa today
09:27:21  <hylje> guess which one i'm interested in seeing
09:31:10  <Rubidium> santa!
09:32:19  <hylje> obviously!
09:35:33  <SpComb> <-- OpenTTD Online (not mine, some random person's browser-based game)
09:35:55  <SpComb> doesn't exist yet, he's just wondering if he could call it that
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11:09:38  <hylje> lol wut where to go
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11:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> looks like a typical german station to me...
11:20:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> and that's why we need programmable switches
11:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> they take the decision from you
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12:41:03  <SpComb> hrmph, the only viewport-drawing function in viewport.h is ViewportDoDraw, DrawViewport and DrawViewportChk aren't exported at all
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12:57:47  <SpComb> <-- now with zoom, although the coordinates aren't fixed
12:59:25  <hylje> SpComb: have you thought about overlaying mobile things on the somewhat stable terrain?
13:00:13  <SpComb> hylje: hmm... you'd need to figure out how to generate images with only the certain sprite on them, and then the number of images also increases
13:00:32  <hylje> i didnt say it'd be simple
13:01:06  <SpComb> one thing that I have considered is somehow making use of OpenTTD's dirty blocks thing to only update images if needed
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13:01:11  <fjb> Moin
13:01:26  <SpComb> although I haven't looked at the code so I don't know how it works
13:01:35  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
13:01:35  <fjb> !logs
13:02:13  <SpComb> and the terrain isn't even that static, trees change colour/shape/appear/go away, and e.g. the water is animated
13:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you could do something like truebrain did, create an image for each tile
13:07:36  <SpComb> does each tile have a dirty/not dirty state?
13:08:03  <SpComb> the trouble with that is that the number of images becomes to high, although perhaps four tiles/image or so would work
13:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what number of images is considered "high"
13:09:07  <SpComb> the number of requests the browser has to make to my server to update the images, currently it does about twenty of them every two seconds
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14:00:05  <nick> hi
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14:00:13  <Hangman> hi
14:00:15  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
14:00:49  <Hangman> i've got an idea for implementing a new feature in 0.6.0
14:02:04  <Hangman> you could make a german language file with real vehicle names, i would be amazed
14:02:55  <Rubidium> you could also make a NewGRF with real vehicle names and load that
14:04:22  <Hangman> yes, but it would be easier for the users just to select it right after downloading, so they don't have so much work with it. maybe some people find it difficult, too.
14:04:22  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, newgrfs rock
14:04:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11546 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
14:04:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1496]: If ever the air/heli port is suddenly not available while the "chopper" is descending, just go back into flying.
14:04:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The code should have been better written, but in respect of newgrf_port branch, i prefer minimalist intervention
14:05:37  <Rubidium> Hangman: the problem with a german version of real vehicles means doubling the workload of german translators
14:05:38  <Gonozal_VIII> morning belugas
14:06:15  <Rubidium> or such major changes in the string generating stuff that probably the WebTranslator needs to be rewritten partly
14:06:25  <Hangman> oh, i didn't know that
14:07:08  <Gonozal_VIII> also german translation sucks (imho) lots of strings are much too long
14:07:15  <Rubidium> and for both it means quite some time implementing it, which shouldn't be a problem except that the people who know something about the string stuff and especially the WebTranslator have a negative amount of free time
14:07:55  <Hangman> two more things i've found: 1. sometimes, the text of windows is too long, so it isn't displayed
14:08:06  <Hangman> or only the letters on the landscape
14:08:12  <Hangman> know what i mean?
14:08:53  <Gonozal_VIII> that's because in german everything is longer and more complicated
14:09:14  <Rubidium> fixing that requires the translators to fix the length of the text, which apparantly they refuse to do
14:09:43  <Rubidium> or rewriting the whole GUI stuff which takes even more time than the string generating stuff
14:09:58  <Hangman> ok, now 2. after an helicopter started from an oil rig, there is no sound played, or at least very rarely
14:09:59  <Rubidium> without "much" gain
14:10:38  <Rubidium> then some other sound is played I guess
14:10:43  <Rubidium> with a higher priority
14:11:41  <Hangman> i dont think so because there was only playing the midi music and nothing else
14:12:15  <Rubidium> departing from an oil rig is in no way different from departing from any normal airport
14:12:24  <Hangman> this problem exists only on oil rigs, not on airports
14:12:32  <Hangman> believe me
14:14:39  <Hangman> you can check for yourself
14:15:38  <Gonozal_VIII> i am now
14:17:00  <Hangman> oh, and something really important: 3. if your train does transship goods, the game doesn't make a diference between for example wood of Bowtown and wood of Baytown, it just displays it as goods from the station it came from
14:17:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i have the sound everytime
14:17:39  <Rubidium> I have also sound on every take off
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14:17:53  <Gonozal_VIII> that's just the display, there is a difference
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14:18:10  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: unless he did unload and not transfer
14:18:18  <Hangman> i.e. at Bowtwon station: 200 Wood from Bowtown Forest, then a train comes from Baytown with 100 wood, now: 300 Wood from Baytown
14:18:18  <Rubidium> or he's running < 0.6.0-beta1
14:18:43  <Rubidium> and yes, the display only shows one source
14:18:54  <Hangman> i'm german, someone of you too? then i could explain better
14:19:12  <Rubidium> though it is properly accounted for in >= 0.6.0-beta1
14:19:12  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- austrian
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14:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <Hangman> i.e. at Bowtwon station: 200 Wood from Bowtown Forest, then a train comes from Baytown with 100 wood, now: 300 Wood from Baytown <- this is just a display issue
14:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the point of origin is still correctly stored, but only one can be displayed
14:36:26  <Hangman> will this be fixed?
14:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> not in the near future
14:39:17  <Hangman> 4. the ai doesn't know if 90 degree curves are allowed or not, will this be fixed, too?
14:40:06  <Vikthor> Hangman: Probably only with the NoAI
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14:45:08  <Hangman> bye @all
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16:22:49  <fjb> That's why I love to play with the ai: :-)
16:25:29  <Tefad> the explosions?
16:25:57  <fjb> Yeah. :-)
16:26:01  <Tefad> hehe
16:26:49  <fjb> Don't know how many vehicles got lost at that crossing. :-)
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16:35:04  <Wolf01> hello
16:36:56  <fjb> Hi Wolf01
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16:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause> which station set is that?
16:51:55  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Is the question about my screenshot?
16:52:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you seen any other screenshots? :p
16:53:30  <fjb> No, but I don't know what else you are seeing. :-)
16:53:32  <fjb> :-P
16:53:55  <fjb> That are the basic platforms and the industrial stations set.
16:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, which version?
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16:58:22  <fjb> V0.42 05.09.05
16:58:49  <fjb> It is not the industrial stations reneval set.
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17:24:18  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, that building is from the brick freight stations.
17:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> aha.
17:25:31  <fjb> Sorry. That happens when you have loaded too mans station grfs...
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18:05:01  <fjb> The ai gave up on that line. :-)
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18:07:02  <Zojj> anyone here using vc++ express 2008
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19:11:39  <ln->
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19:16:48  <SmatZ> hello
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19:34:29  <Appel> Hi, where can i ask a question and/or report a possible bug?
19:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause>
19:34:58  <Appel> Thanks
19:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> questions you better ask here, or in the forums
19:35:35  <Appel> Ok
19:36:15  <Appel> I made a scenario in 0.5.3 with 4 cities which are about 50k large. Now I'm a good time further and the city sizes have became smaller.
19:36:23  <Appel> 25k t/m 33k in size.
19:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
19:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it does happen that cities shrink
19:37:10  <Appel> I was wondering why the cities became smaller.
19:37:33  <Appel> Will they 'grow back'?
19:41:32  <Eddi|zuHause> cities grow faster if you have active stations
19:42:12  <Appel> Okay, thank you for your help :)
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20:29:14  <SmatZ> !help
20:30:36  <fjb> !fire
20:31:00  <Rubidium> where?
20:31:11  <fjb> There!
20:32:38  <Rubidium> I don't see it
20:34:31  <fjb> Oh, it's gone now. :-(
20:34:37  <SmatZ> :D
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20:41:14  <mikl> What is the problem with YouTube links?
20:41:22  <hylje> too much lulz
20:41:43  <mikl> ok, if you say so :)
20:43:01  *** exe_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:48:20  <ln-> mikl: way too often they are off-topic, and crap, and it's hard to see from the url if it's something you've seen already.
20:49:32  <mikl> ah, I thought it was something security related. The Apple followers have had some security issues... or was that MySpace?
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20:51:07  <Sacro> <- pwned
20:52:44  <ln-> instead of youtube, have a look at
20:53:03  <ben_goodger> cruel
20:53:09  <ben_goodger> and ln-, sod off
20:55:02  <ln-> wtf does "sod off" mean anyway, must be some anglish
20:55:21  <SmatZ> ln- that video is great
20:55:29  <ln-> just as a precaution, i take that as an insult.
20:55:38  <ln-> SmatZ: yeah, it is.. :)
20:56:16  <ben_goodger> please do, and furthermore please stop spamming us with links to that idiot's web page
20:56:50  <ln-> ben_goodger: wtf is your problem?
20:57:36  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57:45  <ben_goodger> your spam
20:58:13  <fjb> The flash plugins allways had security issues, on evere platform.
20:58:14  <SmatZ> is there still propagnande in the USA?
20:58:15  <ben_goodger> I don't know what you hope to achieve
20:58:19  <SmatZ> *a
20:58:32  <ben_goodger> SmatZ: they call it an "election campaign" :)
20:58:41  <ln-> ben_goodger: stfu, ok?
20:59:28  <ben_goodger> no, you stfu
20:59:53  * Rubidium has a better idea: both shut up?
21:00:01  <ben_goodger> try spamming another room; doing it here is not achieving anything except making me slightly more annoyed
21:00:34  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
21:02:33  <ln-> Rubidium: maybe he could be kickbanned so he wouldn't have to suffer any spam anymore?
21:02:57  <ln-> additional note: kicking me doesn't help his situation.
21:03:08  <glx> ln-: really?
21:05:34  <ln-> really.
21:08:33  <hylje> YA RLY!
21:11:13  <ben_goodger> no wai
21:14:41  <ln-> ben_goodger: what do you do for living?
21:14:41  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:15:23  <hylje> troll the internet
21:15:44  *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:16:28  <ben_goodger> yep, I'm a professional troll. I spend my days thinking of more and more irritating ways to make people annoyed enough to reply to asinine comments, and this is then monetised by putting google ads in my /. signature
21:17:02  <ben_goodger> the process is actually quite clever, and of course I receive attention while I'm at it
21:20:05  *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@] has joined #openttd
21:20:22  <ben_goodger> during my spare time, I perform cruel experiments on various pathfinding engines and make yearly quantitative estimates at how close to turing-completeness openttd's signalling/orders systems are
21:20:48  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:22:47  <hylje> thats enlightening
21:22:59  <ben_goodger> indeed so
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21:40:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11547 /trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Add: signal selection GUI for the ones that really like to use that over CTRL. Patch by BigBB.
21:41:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11548 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD Graphics] -Add: sprite added in r11547 (signal gui).
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21:45:40  <hylje> yay!
21:46:01  <LordAzamath> that means...YAY!!!!
21:46:37  *** SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
21:46:46  <SmatZ> hello
21:47:09  <LordAzamath> ..and today evening I posted a reply to the signal selection gui for it to have a Flyspray task, so it would be included sooner :D
21:47:21  <ln-> Bjarni: ain't this great propaganda:
21:47:32  <SmatZ> sorry, I had "micro-sec" blackout, but computers rebooted into new kernel etc...
21:48:39  <Rubidium> appologizing for something you can't really do much about ;)
21:48:59  <LordAzamath> @smatz - an update to desktop-kernel?
21:49:07  * LordAzamath did this
21:49:07  <ln-> SmatZ:
21:49:16  <SmatZ> I could connect back earlier, but I had to get all things back into work :)
21:49:28  <Bjarni> another useless highlight...
21:49:29  <Rubidium> ln-: if only those things would be 100% reliable
21:49:39  <SmatZ> LordAzamath: the kernel was ready waiting for next reboot,but it came really unexpected
21:49:56  <Bjarni> damn.... can't use non-latin chars as nick :s
21:50:01  <LordAzamath> I have to reboot too. It just finished updating
21:50:02  <Bjarni> --- かみ :Erroneous Nickname
21:50:07  <SmatZ> :)
21:50:11  <LordAzamath> humm:)
21:50:12  <Bjarni> that would have worked nice to prevent highlights
21:50:18  <SmatZ> ^_^
21:50:24  <ln-> "plně důvěřují produktům, specialistům a sluÅŸbám poskytovanÃœm APC a MGE. V současné době je zde 12 0000 naÅ¡ich zaměstnanců, kteří jsou připraveni kdykoli" sounds reliable to me.
21:50:45  <ln-> Rubidium: 99% is better than 0%
21:50:57  <SmatZ> ln-: thanks, I was thinking about it many times :)
21:51:04  <LordAzamath> but sounds like a piece of weird language to others :D
21:51:13  <SmatZ> I should really realize my thoughts
21:51:17  <Rubidium> ln-: until you find out that your 230 V UPS is supplying > 300 V to a computer instead of 230 V
21:51:20  <Bjarni> looks like a series of severe typos to me
21:51:50  <ln-> Rubidium: and how common is that?
21:52:36  <Rubidium> not very common, but still no 100% ;)
21:52:43  <Bjarni> oh we are talking about UPS
21:52:52  <ln-> SmatZ: the nice thing about UPSes is that they don't get obsolete like other computer hardware.
21:53:00  <Bjarni> yeah
21:53:09  <Rubidium> ln-: they do, or at least their battery packs
21:53:16  <SmatZ> ln-: do not they need new bateries every two years or so?
21:53:16  <Vikthor> Bjarni: Actually ln- cut some parts of the text from his quote
21:53:29  <Bjarni> they can live with an old battery until it's worn out even when you replace your computer
21:54:21  <Rubidium> another 'drawback' of UPSes is that they 'get' in trouble when the incoming trouble gets below a certain threshold
21:54:22  <ln-> SmatZ: i've got the original battery in this UPS of mine that i bought in 1999.
21:54:31  <SmatZ> there are rarely blackouts, but sometimes (once in ~3 months, often caused by storms and snow) there is a 1-sec blackout... enough for most computers to reboot
21:54:44  <SmatZ> ln-: thanks, maybe I should give it a try
21:55:26  <glx> less than 1 sec is enough for my PC to shutdown
21:55:38  <Rubidium> for example when it gets below 215 V it starts 'emptying' it's batteries to keep 230 V and that will eventually drain the batteries which causes the UPS to shut down
21:55:42  <SmatZ> glx: yes... it is just "blick" :)
21:55:58  <Rubidium> better use hardware that can stand blackouts without UPS ;)
21:56:14  <ln-> Rubidium: the threshold for minimum voltage is adjustable even in this cheapish UPS of mine.
21:58:40  <ln-> and i don't think operating a computer with too low voltage is good for its health.
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22:01:14  <Bjarni> my UPS already saved my computer from potential bad stuff more than once
22:01:31  <Bjarni> it just needs to save a computer once to pay back the full costs of the UPS itself
22:01:43  <Bjarni> so it was a good investment :)
22:02:16  *** Greyscale [] has joined #openttd
22:02:58  <Bjarni> <Rubidium> for example when it gets below 215 V it starts 'emptying' it's batteries to keep 230 V and that will eventually drain the batteries which causes the UPS to shut down <-- usually power drops have been for such a short time that the UPS battery were strong enough to stay on until power returned
22:03:08  <ln-> there was a case here some years ago that during some electric network maintenance, some limited area was feeded with overvoltage for some time.
22:03:53  <Bjarni> we lost the pump in our furnace due to voltage peaks generated from when the wind made the power cables hit each other
22:03:59  <ln-> i didn't live in this building back then, so i didn't get to test my ups for that, but people reported some hardware being broken.
22:04:11  <Bjarni> an electric pump is something that usually survives stuff like that
22:04:34  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
22:04:51  <Bjarni> ln-: at least it's a clear case of who made the mistake
22:05:03  <Bjarni> insurance could help you in a case like that
22:05:10  <Bjarni> if the power company wouldn't compensate you
22:05:43  <Bjarni> actually I'm more concerned with data security than hardware failures
22:06:03  <Bjarni> you can get new hardware but not your personal data if the drive is lost due to high voltage
22:06:45  <Rubidium> Bjarni: for that you make something called 'backup'
22:07:13  <Rubidium> preferably off-site backups
22:07:14  <ln-> Rubidium: preferably to another hard drive that is connected to the same power.
22:07:23  <Tefad> pfff
22:08:01  <Tefad> encrypt all your important crap it throw it into your gmail and yahoo email accounts
22:08:08  <Tefad> fat chance of both of them dying at once.
22:08:42  <Rubidium> and where do you store the encryption key?
22:09:59  <ln-> Tefad: making backups had better be a fully automated process, or otherwise people don't remember/bother to do it often enough.
22:16:57  <fjb> Rubidium: DVD-RAM + Diskette + USB-Drive + Printing it as an ASCII dump. :-)
22:18:18  <Rubidium> fjb: and where do you store those?
22:18:46  <glx> in the bank :)
22:20:09  <fjb> At different places, at home, a the bank etc...
22:20:18  <Tefad> relative's place
22:21:03  * fjb encrypts every backup.
22:21:27  <LordAzamath> good night
22:21:29  * Rubidium can't be bothered by encryption ;)
22:21:42  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
22:21:49  <Rubidium> nor compression
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22:22:02  <Bjarni> <Rubidium> Bjarni: for that you make something called 'backup' <-- even when you do backups, you don't do it every 5th minute so if shit happens then you will lose something anyway
22:22:06  <fjb> Rubidium doesn't do backups? :-)
22:22:28  <Tefad> i can't think of anything on my computer i couldn't live without
22:22:38  <Rubidium> I do, well... technically maybe not
22:22:44  <Tefad> i mean, there are some interesting histories of my overall computer experience
22:22:52  <Bjarni> technically I hope we can all live without computers
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22:23:04  <Rubidium> everything that is important gets committed into SVN
22:23:10  <Bjarni> but we would prefer to have our Email archive and stuff
22:23:13  <Tefad> since 1995 i've had a continual fat16 (upgraded to fat32) file system going
22:23:30  <Rubidium> and that gets immediatelly duplicated to several off-site locations
22:23:36  <Rubidium> > 200 km apart
22:23:41  <Tefad> (various disks, formatted, copied, etc.. but i still have my win3.1->win95 image somewhere)
22:26:17  *** MindlessTux [] has joined #openttd
22:27:32  * Bjarni wonders if MindlessTux is a windows user in disguise
22:27:58  <MindlessTux> only when I dont feel like sitting down at the desk
22:28:29  <Bjarni> you are a standing windows user?
22:28:39  <MindlessTux> no, laptop, on the couch
22:28:40  <MindlessTux> :P
22:29:02  <hylje> i run linux on my lappies
22:29:27  <Bjarni> well... with the price of windows you might not be able to afford a chair
22:29:27  <MindlessTux> meh, have not had the time to dual boot this one yet
22:30:05  <MindlessTux> very true
22:30:30  <hylje> dualbooting is for wussies
22:30:38  <Bjarni> I have dualboot
22:30:39  <hylje> fuzzy wuzzy
22:30:47  <Bjarni> because.... well I wanted to try it
22:30:57  <Bjarni> to make it fun I don't use it :P
22:31:14  <Bjarni> and I only did it because MS gave me windows for free
22:31:48  <MindlessTux> exactly
22:31:50  <MindlessTux> :P
22:32:11  * Rubidium has kinda quad boot
22:32:18  <Bjarni> for some reason MS decided to give a whole lot of students windows XP for free
22:32:20  <hylje> pervert
22:32:24  <hylje> !
22:32:26  <hylje> Bjarni: yarrr
22:32:42  <Bjarni> so I got a copy with CD key and everything without needing it
22:32:50  <Bjarni> half a year later I decided to try dual booting
22:32:55  <Tefad> Bjarni: to hook them into MS products? that's their usual reason
22:33:05  <Bjarni> yeah
22:33:11  <Bjarni> it didn't work on me though
22:33:18  <Tefad> same tactic most religions rely on
22:33:26  <Bjarni> windows is crappy and limited compared to what I can do in OSX
22:33:28  <Rubidium> the more MS stuff I use the less I like it
22:33:45  <Tefad> OSX makes me feel contrained
22:33:54  <Bjarni> why?
22:34:03  <Tefad> because you have to do things the "mac way"
22:34:10  <Rubidium> MS really has done a very GOOD job in making everything sooooo sloooooooooow
22:34:20  <Bjarni> the mono buttoned mouse died ages ago
22:34:30  <Tefad> i think third parties make an OS slow ..
22:34:43  <Tefad> ever install a virus scanner? ; )
22:34:47  <Bjarni> except on MacBooks for some odd reason
22:35:09  <Tefad> because apple is still too afraid to tell users to right click.
22:35:27  <Tefad> right.. which one is the right button? OHNOES *head explodes*
22:35:31  <Rubidium> Tefad: a help file needing to search for 5+ seconds is not useful
22:35:42  <Bjarni> I noticed a limitation in mighty mouse though... you can't click left and right at the same time o_O
22:35:47  <Rubidium> an ASP site that is dead slow (name me one that is actually fast)
22:35:58  <Tefad> Bjarni: that's due to the sensors that detect your finger positions
22:36:08  <Rubidium> Windows Update that takes several minutes to 'determine' which patches you can install
22:36:26  <Rubidium> Installing/deinstalling an application takes ages
22:36:27  <Bjarni> I realise why but that's no good when the docs said "click both mouse buttons at the same time"
22:36:30  <Tefad> when you click, there's only one mechanical switch.. the hardware isn't able to cope when both of your fingers on "click position" or whatever
22:36:31  <ln-> Bjarni: and you cannot right-click unless you lift your finger from the left button.
22:36:43  <Bjarni> luckily it works with more or less all USB mice
22:36:45  <Tefad> hehe.
22:36:49  <Rubidium> Removing 'default' Windows stuff requires the Windows CD
22:37:05  <Sacro> <- possibly nsfw, depending on imagination
22:37:34  <Tefad> not work safe man
22:37:38  <Rubidium> hmm... what other things could I complain about related to MS products?
22:37:39  <Tefad> imagination ??
22:37:47  <Tefad> thems female parts .
22:37:57  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [NOT WORK SAFE]
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22:38:03  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:38:08  <Sacro> Bjarni: i did put nsfw at the end
22:38:21  <Tefad> possibly? thems serious parts there.
22:38:24  <Bjarni> but then people should know what you mean by random chars
22:38:47  <Bjarni> besides Sacro just showed all of us that he is a pervert
22:39:02  <ln-> pervert in what way?
22:39:05  <Tefad> drivers in close source OSs are nearly always problematic.
22:39:22  <Tefad> not that open source are painfree (or even available)
22:39:44  <Bjarni> <ln-> pervert in what way? <-- linking female reproduction organs with something that's meant to be eaten
22:39:45  <Tefad> i install a usb scanner driver in OS X.. it freaks out when i try to use it and i get the beachball of death
22:39:49  <Tefad> and then it refuses to shut down.
22:40:05  <Sacro> Bjarni: whats wrong with eating it?
22:40:12  <Tefad> and i have no idea what magical key sequence to use to abort in OS X
22:40:16  <Bjarni> Sacro: HENTAI!!!
22:40:21  <Sacro> :o
22:40:31  <Tefad> the one for windows is blatantly obvious.. part of pop culture
22:40:50  <ln-> Bjarni: something as perverted as talking about "melons"?
22:41:02  <Bjarni> Tefad: I learned something about OSX.... just plug in the hardware and it works. Forget about drivers as the driver that comes with the hardware doesn't work but the OS itself can figure out how to use it anyway
22:41:15  <Tefad> not the scanner i had
22:41:23  <Bjarni> that's not good
22:41:32  <Tefad> nope, it wasn't
22:41:34  <Rubidium> that's probably a 'winscanner' (like 'winmodem')
22:41:47  <Tefad> it installed some scanner manager thing and fubard the OS essentially
22:41:54  <Tefad> it works in linux fine actually
22:42:08  <Tefad> but i don't think it did at the time i was playing around with it
22:42:15  <Bjarni> I just plugged in a more or less random scanner and it just worked without any drivers or software. The default stuff in OSX took care of everything
22:42:17  <Tefad> so i had an old mac and decided to dick around with OS X on it.
22:42:43  <Tefad> some linux distros come like that out of the box (all conceivable drivers built in)
22:43:00  <hylje> not built in, but available
22:43:08  <hylje> footprint is important
22:43:08  <Tefad> built into the installation.
22:43:15  <Tefad> (not kernel)
22:43:32  <Tefad> remember the days of OS 9 or Win98 when you plug in a USB disk?
22:43:51  <Tefad> OMG What's this? a new device? awesome! wtf is it?!
22:44:16  <Tefad> xp fixed that.. but not usb 2.0.. i think sp1 or sp2 resolved the usb2 thing
22:44:17  <Bjarni> windows still does that to my USB flash disk :s
22:44:23  <Tefad> hah nice.
22:44:41  <Bjarni> only the first time for every computer though
22:44:42  <Tefad> i've never had a generic usb device do anything but work in linux
22:44:45  <Rubidium> Windows and supporting something 'new'... makes me laugh
22:44:59  <Rubidium> like Windows XP not supporting SATA
22:45:01  <Tefad> even some craptastic pocket camera
22:45:28  <Tefad> while it wasn't a UMS device, after i installed camera-accessing software, it worked fine
22:45:57  <Tefad> daylight savings time seriously needs to go
22:46:47  <Bjarni> I only had one issue with OSX and hardware that it didn't officially support. A DVD drive that made a kernel panic when it started a disc from sleep
22:46:58  <Bjarni> disallowing the drive to go to sleep fixed it though
22:47:12  <Tefad> stupid US just lengthened DST.
22:47:33  <Rubidium> Tefad: maybe they should lengthen it a little more (few months)
22:47:42  <Tefad> i'd rather see it abolished
22:47:50  <Bjarni> <Tefad> daylight savings time seriously needs to go <-- some Japanese politicians decided to try it so now they have two "test cities" who uses it while the rest of the country don't
22:48:04  <Tefad> try it?!
22:48:05  <Tefad> NOES
22:48:16  *** Greyscale [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48:16  <Tefad> it's only barely useful for farmers or something
22:48:25  <Rubidium> Bjarni: reminds me of totally locking a Mac by simply 'playing' with some screensavers
22:48:42  <Bjarni> <Tefad> i'd rather see it abolished <-- it actually gets the intended job done (using the hours where the sun is up more efficiently) but it has so many side effects
22:49:00  <Tefad> i don't see how
22:49:08  <Tefad> just wake up earlier or open your stores earlier
22:49:09  <Tefad> done!
22:49:18  <Bjarni> the idea is that you get up an hour earlier when the sun gets up earlier
22:49:24  <Tefad> ^
22:49:47  <Tefad> there are two ways to abolish DST
22:50:02  <Tefad> ignore DST altogether
22:50:09  <Bjarni> that's the idea but the side effects is like the milk truck shows up at the farm an hour earlier and then the cows aren't ready to be milked and stuff
22:50:13  <Tefad> OR, never set your clocks back to standard time.
22:50:30  <Bjarni> they even use hormones to get the cows to be milked an hour earlier o_O
22:50:58  <Bjarni> farmers hates changing the clock... because the internal clock in the animals don't change
22:50:59  <Tefad> there shouldn't be a binary change.
22:51:22  <Bjarni> you mean we should reset the clock at 12:00 every say
22:51:23  <Tefad> people need to gradually change their schedules over time.
22:51:26  <Bjarni> when the sun is at max?
22:51:44  <Tefad> what i'm saying has nothing to do with modifying clocks.
22:51:56  <Tefad> modify your schedule independent of time
22:52:18  <Bjarni> how about... just using UTC ± whatever fits your country and then stick to it
22:52:19  <Tefad> if not on a dailly basis, monthly.
22:52:39  <Tefad> Bjarni: what i'm saying works on any method of time keeping
22:52:46  <Tefad> you could count grains of sand in an hourglass
22:52:50  <Tefad> whatever floats your boat.
22:52:57  <Rubidium> how about 'just' using UTC ;)
22:52:59  <Tefad> just change your schedule around some constant time.
22:53:02  <Bjarni> sand don't float :P
22:53:14  <Tefad> Bjarni: depends on what you set it on.
22:53:38  <Tefad> i'm going out on a limb, but i'd think it floats on mercury
22:54:01  <Bjarni> <Rubidium> how about 'just' using UTC ;) <-- no... because then new years eve is less fun.... USA becomes last year once a year and we know that it will happen
22:54:30  <Bjarni> Tefad: you want a boat to float on mercury?
22:54:38  <Rubidium> Bjarni: it's 'more' fun as in the US they can't see the fireworks as it is still light outside ;)
22:54:39  <Tefad> hell pool balls float on mercury.
22:54:45  <Tefad> billard
22:54:52  <Bjarni> Rubidium: good point :D
22:55:12  * Bjarni got hit by a pool ball last week
22:55:18  <Tefad> ouch
22:55:23  <Bjarni> like 10 meters away from the table
22:55:40  <Bjarni> I didn't see how this guy was shooting but I'm pretty sure it's not the way to do it
22:56:13  <Bjarni> didn't hurt though... the floor took the impact before it continued on to me
22:56:27  <Bjarni> but... I was a bit surprised
22:56:44  <Bjarni> and then I flamed the shooting guy for not taking care of our pool table
22:57:36  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
22:59:11  <Tefad> heh
23:01:25  <Bjarni> well... technically it's not my table but I do know the owners
23:01:29  <Bjarni> which is close enough for me
23:04:57  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
23:05:13  * Bjarni is surprised how easy it is to kill a channel
23:05:24  *** Jezral [] has joined #openttd
23:05:40  <Bjarni> I just said that I got shot and then nobody says anything anymore
23:05:51  <Bjarni> except ouch
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23:10:37  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
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23:19:13  * Sacro fancies doing some OpenTTD development
23:20:16  * Bjarni feels scared
23:20:28  *** ludde [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:21:53  <Bjarni> Sacro: wtf are you doing?
23:22:22  <Sacro> Bjarni: well...
23:22:25  <Sacro> *cough*
23:24:48  <Bjarni> signals in tunnels?
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23:30:30  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
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23:36:42  <Tefad> Din moder Àr en skinka och din fader luktar flÀder
23:37:12  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
23:37:28  <Tefad> exactly.
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23:51:19  <Gonozal_VIII> ha, i found out what language it is and could translate everything except the last word
23:51:38  <ln-> could it be the same as leder.. (checking)
23:52:29  <ln-> unknown
23:53:43  <ln-> finland har nordens billigaste tv-avgift.
23:54:46  <Gonozal_VIII> delicate country has north uniting cheapest TV charge ^^
23:55:25  <Gonozal_VIII> that's rofl
23:55:36  <Gonozal_VIII> -ish
23:58:49  <Gonozal_VIII> and back: det delikat landet har nord att förena den mest billiga TVladdningen

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