Log for #openttd on 2nd December 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:38  <Wolf01> 'night
00:01:41  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
00:01:42  <Gonozal_VIII> night
00:08:24  *** AntB [~AntB-UK@] has joined #openttd
00:08:35  <Tefad> btw you fail at swedish.
00:08:46  <Tefad> oh, n/m
00:08:52  <Gonozal_VIII> webtranslator :-)
00:09:16  <Tefad> the last word is "elderberries"
00:09:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i kept on feeding the output back in until it stopped changing... that's the result: det delikat landet har norden, det förenar mest, det Àr det billiga razzian visartavlor. visionrapport
00:10:31  <Gonozal_VIII> does that make any sense?
00:13:51  <Bjarni> no
00:14:19  <Tefad> Din moder Àr en skinka och din fader luktar flÀder!!@*&#
00:14:42  <Sacro> :o
00:14:47  <Bjarni> that makes no sense either but on a completely different level
00:14:54  <Tefad> sure it does
00:15:06  <Tefad> i'm insulting your parents.
00:15:10  <Bjarni> I mean it's supposed to be an insult
00:15:18  <Bjarni> but it's a weird one
00:15:22  <Tefad> it's monty python
00:15:22  <Gonozal_VIII> the elderberries don't make sense
00:15:23  <Tefad> durrr
00:15:44  <Tefad> Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!
00:15:46  <Sacro> your mother is a hamster...
00:15:48  <Sacro> damn it ><
00:16:03  <Tefad> see someone knows what's up.
00:16:05  <Bjarni> ohh that one
00:16:14  <Tefad> not as familiar when in swedish is it
00:16:21  <Bjarni> what a poor translation :P
00:16:28  <Tefad> how so?
00:16:37  <Tefad> improve it.
00:16:49  <Bjarni> nahh
00:16:55  <Gonozal_VIII> ni!
00:17:00  <Tefad> is the elderberries part at least correct?
00:17:18  <Bjarni> improving Swedish is like optimising windows though open source kernels
00:17:38  <Tefad> .. reactos anyone?
00:19:09  * Bjarni had Swedish at school
00:19:20  <Tefad> ah
00:19:24  <Tefad> i forget your nationality
00:19:46  <Tefad> have you moved recently?
00:19:47  <Bjarni> I ended up discussing the age of a Swedish short story with the teacher
00:19:52  <Gonozal_VIII>  FRENCH GUARD: I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
00:20:08  <Bjarni> she dated it to the 19th century
00:20:21  <Bjarni> I said that it could be the 20th century as well
00:20:28  <Tefad> so i hosed the tense.
00:20:31  <Bjarni> we both based it on the same thing :D
00:20:45  <Bjarni> the train had brakemen on the cars
00:20:56  <Bjarni> Sweden didn't start using air brakes until 1920
00:21:44  <Bjarni> <Tefad> i forget your nationality <-- the saw states that everybody in Denmark should learn Swedish and Norwegian in school
00:22:15  <Bjarni> but I was able to read it even before we got that far in school
00:22:28  <Bjarni> Duck Tales was in Swedish
00:22:32  <Bjarni> and stuff
00:22:56  <Bjarni> today I still have more Swedish than Danish TV channels
00:23:18  <Bjarni> for some odd reason
00:23:41  <Bjarni> but great news... I fixed my TV antenna today
00:23:50  <Bjarni> so now I have Danish TV channels again
00:23:54  <Tefad> heh.
00:24:32  <glx> <@Bjarni> <Tefad> i forget your nationality <-- the saw states that everybody in Denmark should learn Swedish and Norwegian in school <-- the saw ?
00:24:37  <Bjarni> kind of odd when the Danish channels died and the Swedish ones stayed when the actual error wasn't the antenna itself but the cable between the antenna and the TV
00:24:58  <Bjarni> s/saw/law
00:25:09  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- that guy
00:25:10  <Bjarni> wtf
00:25:17  <Bjarni> nobody noticed until now???
00:25:21  <Tefad> i did
00:25:26  <Bjarni> do you even read what I write????
00:25:26  <Tefad> just just read around it
00:25:31  <Bjarni> (I don't) :P
00:25:35  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes
00:25:36  <Tefad> obviously
00:26:52  <Bjarni> but did you understand that sentence even with the wrong word in it?
00:27:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i assumed that was some kind of school ministry
00:29:18  <Bjarni> heh
00:29:25  <Bjarni> in a way it is
00:29:53  <Bjarni> the laws about our school system usually starts on some desk in the ministry of education
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00:35:42  <ln-> anyone been to San Francisco?
00:37:42  <Sacro> is Patric Stout Truelight?
00:38:14  <Rubidium> ln-: yes
00:38:58  <ln-> Rubidium: you?
00:39:29  <Rubidium> yes
00:39:37  <ln-> is it a good place to visit?
00:40:49  <Rubidium> depends on what you're searching for
00:41:06  <Sacro> gay man love!
00:41:49  <ln-> searching for not getting arrested or shot.
00:42:01  <ln-> that must be the #1 priority if planning a trip to the US and A.
00:43:02  <Rubidium> then SF is a nice place
00:43:31  <Gonozal_VIII> only 1 out of 5 tourists gets shot there
00:43:43  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
00:44:46  <Rubidium> yeah right
00:44:52  <ln-> also SF would not be terribly far away from things such as Grand Canyon.
00:45:12  <Rubidium> you could drive to there within 24 hours
00:45:49  <Rubidium> but I'm not talking about comfortable and such
00:46:22  <ln-> we've sort of being planning a 1+ week trip to the west coast, including a car rental.
00:47:46  <Gonozal_VIII> you can make some cable car grfs while you're there ;-)
00:48:28  <ln-> someone said a car rental for 2 weeks costs only around ~0 in the US.
00:48:50  <Rubidium> ln-: it's a 12 hour drive
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00:49:41  <Rubidium> putin! ;)
00:49:49  <ln-> ok.. doesn't make sense to do it in one day, but in two days it's quite possible
00:50:04  <ln-> putin, horshii, horoshii, horoshii!
00:50:20  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf?
00:50:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11549 /extra/ottd_grf/split/openttdgui.nfo: -Fix (r11548): Twisted X and Y sizes
00:50:54  <SpComb> Twisted!
00:51:05  <SpComb> it's a nice framework
00:52:53  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: you're against him?!?
00:53:04  <Rubidium> ln-, a 'free' tip: the bridges near San Francisco are toll bridges, but you only have to pay when you go towards San Francisco (but this only matters when you plan to go north or directly east of San Francisco
00:53:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11550 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r11547): Updated the data files regarding to r11549
00:53:57  <ln-> Rubidium: ok, noted.
00:54:14  <ln-> now i only need to convince >0 people to join the trip.
00:55:12  <ln-> it's a pity that the west coast flights are somewhat more expensive than east coast.
00:56:06  <Rubidium> when do you intend to go?
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00:56:51  <Gonozal_VIII> google: Meinten Sie: putin, yoshii, hiroshi, hiroshi!
00:57:35  <ln-> at some point between january..april.
00:57:46  <ln-> hopefully.
00:58:00  <ln-> or if not, then i'll stay home and play OTTD.
00:58:12  <Gonozal_VIII> good idea :-)
00:58:44  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: were you here when was pasted.. if not, there it is.
00:59:55  <Gonozal_VIII> i wasn't
01:00:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11551 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window.h):
01:00:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Introduction of widget control members on struct Window. These "new" members have the exact same functionalities as their pure functions "genitors"
01:00:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Ex: "Window::SetWidgetLoweredState(byte widget_index, bool lowered_stat)" is the member corresponding to "SetWindowWidgetLoweredState(Window *w, byte widget_index, bool lowered_stat)"
01:02:36  <Gonozal_VIII> ... that's russian...
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01:04:03  <Belugas> advice and comment is aimed at patchers and devs.
01:04:19  <Belugas> are you among one of these,Gonozal_VIII?
01:04:26  <Belugas> oups...
01:04:27  <Belugas> sorry
01:04:31  <Belugas> forget me
01:04:43  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
01:05:04  <Sacro> Belugas: genitors is not a good term :p
01:05:14  <Sacro> especially for asians...
01:05:19  <ln-> the music is by ЭМОП МПррОкПМе (Enio Morrikone), though
01:06:03  <Gonozal_VIII> music?
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01:06:12  <ln-> on the video
01:06:19  <ln-> you didn't hear music?
01:06:21  <Gonozal_VIII> there is no music?
01:06:23  <Belugas> Sacro, sorry.  next time, i'll try to make it better
01:06:25  <Gonozal_VIII> just talking...
01:06:26  <Belugas> sugestions?
01:06:43  <Sacro> Belugas: nothing that sounds like genitals :p
01:06:53  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: ohh, you missed 37.2% of the fun.
01:07:16  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm it loads a third video...
01:07:31  <Gonozal_VIII> another commercial
01:09:24  <Gonozal_VIII> one of them said: "scheiße"... i could understand that... but nothing of the rest.. and no music at all there
01:10:58  <Gonozal_VIII> another guy talking...
01:11:06  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: i wonder which video of them have you seen then...
01:11:22  <ln-> i'm watching the third, with indeed "scheiße" being said in it.
01:11:49  <ln-> but surely the first one about putin has music.
01:13:25  <Gonozal_VIII> you mean that western theme?
01:14:04  <ln-> exactly.
01:14:24  <Gonozal_VIII> "Das Lied vom Tod"
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01:16:16  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- that should be it
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01:17:01  <Gonozal_VIII> or not..
01:21:19  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: check the topic ;)
01:21:55  <glx> (UTF-8 and no youtube)
01:21:59  <Gonozal_VIII> :-/
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01:28:06  <ln-> has anyone dared to propose renewing the french writing?
01:28:41  <ln-> i.e. cutting off the 5 letters per word that are not pronounced anyway.
01:29:05  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
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01:42:35  <glx> ln-: which one?
01:51:15  <ln-> you must admit there are a lot of letters in french words that have not been pronounced in many hundreds of years.
01:51:27  <ln-> depends on the word of course.
01:54:30  <Sacro> ma grandmere est flombeur
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01:55:20  <Gonozal_VIII> your grandmother is burning?
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01:56:23  * glx doesn't know flombeur
01:56:40  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: yes, my french is lacking
01:58:23  <ln-> qu'est ce que -- i don't remember what this means exactly, but a lot unused letters in it.
01:58:48  <Sacro> errr
01:58:52  <Sacro> what is?
01:59:08  <Gonozal_VIII> looks like you were cleaning the keyboard
01:59:08  <Sacro> i think
01:59:32  <glx> ln-: not really unused
02:00:30  <ln-> isn't it pronounced like /ˈkeskə ˈseː/
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02:00:58  <glx> ˈkeskə
02:01:40  <ln-> ah, true, i was imagining something extra to the end.
02:02:23  <glx> like "qu'est-ce que c'est?" ;)
02:02:32  <ln-> something like that :)
02:03:43  <ln-> that could be simply written as "qesqÞ se", much shorter :)
02:04:15  <glx> totally unreadable ;)
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02:05:06  <ln-> do i remember correctly that the french ortography approximates the way french was spoken on the 13th century, or so?
02:06:40  <glx> many things come from latin and greek
02:10:06  <ln-> did all the russians leave the channel already?
02:10:51  <Gonozal_VIII> there were russians?
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03:30:03  <Tefad> what it is that it is!
03:30:26  <Tefad> aka "what's this"
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08:31:50  *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
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08:32:04  *** mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium
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09:54:26  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
09:54:33  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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10:03:18  <SmatZ> hello
10:03:29  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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10:58:19  <skidd13> morning
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11:32:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11552 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
11:32:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-12-02 12:31:46
11:32:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
11:32:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 15 fixed by glx (15)
11:32:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: galician - 2 fixed by Condex (2)
11:32:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 15 fixed by lorenzodv (15)
11:32:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 6 fixed by jhsoby (6)
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12:11:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11553 /trunk/src/window.h: -Fix: make a few widget 'accessor' function const when they should be const.
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12:57:42  <SpComb> <-- yay! Vehicle following
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12:57:52  <SpComb> <-- there's the list of valid vehicles
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12:58:53  <Bjarni> nice
12:59:15  <Bjarni> load a real game and let us harass your bandwidth :P
12:59:27  <Rubidium> there are more valid vehicles that just that single train ;)
12:59:46  <SpComb> well, all valid VEH_TRAIN vehicles
13:00:03  <SpComb> you can admire the smoke plumes as well, but I probably won't bother listing those
13:00:03  <Bjarni> what if you add another engine to the same train?
13:00:10  <Bjarni> will it make two valid vehicles or one?
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13:00:44  <SpComb> it uses the same code as the viewport vehicle_follow stuff
13:01:01  <Bjarni> that's not what I asked
13:01:04  <Bjarni> but good idea
13:01:09  <SpComb> oh right, each wagon is indeed listed seperately
13:01:40  <SpComb> the interesting thing is that the zoom now works properly there, so I may have found a hint as to how virtual_top/virtual_left work
13:02:10  <SpComb> hmm, out of sprite memory
13:02:24  <Rubidium> hmm, did I break it?
13:02:31  <Bjarni> or did I do it?
13:02:38  <Bjarni> hard to tell
13:03:04  <Bjarni> maybe it's not freeing some memory after we get the screenshot
13:03:06  <SpComb> Rubidium: did you crank up the w/h?
13:03:18  <Rubidium> only 'slighty'
13:03:32  <Bjarni> I was more lazy. I only hit reload
13:03:32  <Rubidium> factor 100 on each side
13:03:34  <SpComb> what z did you use?
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13:03:38  <Rubidium> 0
13:03:48  <Rubidium> vehicle 0
13:03:59  <SpComb> the screenshot code should be able to limit the area drawn so as to avoid that, but I don't really understand the code that I copy-pasted over to do that...
13:04:09  <Bjarni> hehe
13:04:10  <SpComb> which is currently my largest issue
13:04:29  <Bjarni> copy pasting code you don't understand and then it crashes... not good :P
13:04:29  <SpComb> I still don't understand what the difference between virtual_left and left is, although I do know that it has something to do with zoom
13:04:50  <SpComb> well, I know why it crashes, I call ViewportDoDraw on too large of an area
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13:16:12  <halloweenharry> hiho to all of you
13:17:05  <pavel1269> hi
13:18:23  <halloweenharry> i just want to learn "real" ottd-playing :)
13:18:35  <halloweenharry> !password
13:20:31  <SpComb> hmm, its failing to load a .sav, it complains that "Game Load Failed", "File not readable"
13:22:12  <SpComb> not sure what "File not readable" is supposed to mean, but I can less the file quite fine
13:22:54  <Rubidium> probably means that you are looking in another place for the file than OTTD is
13:23:06  <SpComb> although perhaps I'm wrong in assuming that r11546 will be able to read a savegame from r11361
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13:23:14  <SpComb> I'm giving it a full path
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13:24:14  <Rubidium> it works for me
13:24:39  <SpComb> <-- I'm trying to load this into r11361 with -g /home/terom/my_ottd/openttd/trunk/bin/save/openttdcoop_mz11_final.sav
13:25:20  <Rubidium> argh... why post websites when you say me it is a savegame
13:25:53  <SpComb> the .sav is linked to from there,
13:26:11  <Rubidium> it works fine
13:26:28  <Rubidium> but then I'm running r11551
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13:26:58  <SpComb> oh wait, I mixed up the r numbers, it's from r11361, and I'm using r11546
13:28:19  <SpComb> it raises an Assertion if I load it with the r11546 win32 nightly
13:28:43  <Rubidium> then you're probably missing some newgrfs
13:28:59  <SpComb> oh true, I loaded those into the dedicated server
13:29:12  * SpComb is just trying to load a large game into his server
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13:32:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11554 /trunk/src/window.h: -Codechange: be more consistent with the naming of the widget functions.
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14:03:27  <Bjarni> <--- hahaha... gives new meaning to drunk driving
14:03:38  <Bjarni> some people have way too much time on their hands o_O
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14:15:11  <SpComb> <-- now with images of the trains at the bottom
14:15:23  <SpComb> need to come up with some fancy UI for that
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14:20:06  <SmatZ> SpComb: it doesn't work with Konqueror... I don't know where is the problem
14:23:36  <SpComb> which part of it, the train thing?
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14:30:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11555 /trunk/src/ (31 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use the new members introduced in r11551.
14:33:50  <Bjarni> SpComb: when I zoom out the vehicle window zooms out but the big one becomes all black
14:33:57  <Bjarni> in firefox
14:39:48  <pavel1269> SpComb: wow! nice work :)
14:44:13  <Gonozal_VIII> [15:33:50] Bjarni: SpComb: when I zoom out the vehicle window zooms out but the big one becomes all black <-- same here, ff too
14:46:07  <SpComb> Bjarni: read the Zoom: thing below the viewport
14:46:11  <Gonozal_VIII> you could ask truelight how to get smoth movement for the vehicles between refreshes, he has that in his webdune :-)
14:46:33  <SpComb> I never saw his webdune with that feature, I assume that he has seperate images for each vehicle and then moves those images around
14:47:15  <SpComb> pavel1269: it's still early prototype stage, so it's interesting, but not really /useful/ yet :P
14:47:34  <pavel1269> rly? :)
14:48:09  <SpComb> no, and the performance sucks, if more than two or three people try and use the main scroll-around-thing, the server gets really slow
14:48:30  <SpComb> btw, I moved the server to port 7199, 8118 didn't have UDP opened and thence you couldn't join it
14:48:50  <Bjarni> <SpComb> Bjarni: read the Zoom: thing below the viewport <-- but should it make the pic picture all black?
14:49:19  <Gonozal_VIII> it really is all black not just somewhere outside, i tried scrolling around a lot
14:49:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11556 /trunk/src/ (46 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: allow setting a default password for new companies in network games.
14:49:55  <SpComb> Bjarni: yes, it's just outside of the main map somewhere in the corners
14:50:12  <Gonozal_VIII> really? couldn't find the edge of the map
14:50:19  <SpComb> you probably scrolled in the wrong direction
14:50:34  <Bjarni> hmmm now it worked
14:50:43  <Bjarni> but before I was unable to find the map
14:50:51  <SpComb> scroll up-left, once it goes into the negatives you should get invalid images, but it will happily render fully black images for you no matter how far off to the right/bottom you scroll
14:50:55  <Bjarni> please prevent it from completely scrolling off the map then ;)
14:51:17  <SpComb> I need to figure out how the virtual_left etc stuff works, then it would keep the screen centered on the same place no matter how you scroll
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14:51:32  <Gonozal_VIII> some kind of minimap with a frame where you are would be nice :-)
14:52:20  <Gonozal_VIII> i found the map :D
14:53:10  <Bjarni> nice
14:53:13  <Bjarni> just remember
14:53:16  <Bjarni> X marks the spot
14:53:22  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
14:53:56  <Bjarni> and leave the t-shirts for the next pirate wannabes... only take one
14:53:57  <pavel1269> map? where :)
14:54:03  <SpComb> Gonozal_VIII: minimap's on the list, but not the very highest priority
14:54:25  <SpComb> but, you can find the .patches for my OpenTTD modifications in svn, and you're welcome to implement the minimap stuff yourself ;)
14:54:34  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i broke it?
14:55:02  <pavel1269> :D
14:55:04  <SpComb> Gonozal_VIII: negative co-ordinates
14:55:09  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't load images or scroll anymore but the train below still moves around
14:55:10  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
14:55:12  <SpComb> you only broke it for yourself
14:55:20  <Bjarni> still works here
14:55:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ok :-)
14:55:32  <Bjarni> I found the train using the big map
14:55:42  <SpComb> indeed, it's at about 0, -22 or so
14:55:46  <Bjarni> but... it will never reach a depot so it breaks all the time :P
14:56:04  <SpComb> Bjarni: connect to and build your own train :P
14:56:17  <pavel1269> :D
14:56:19  <Bjarni> nahh
14:56:22  <pavel1269> on my way
14:56:23  <pavel1269> :)
14:56:27  <Bjarni> I already have my own train
14:56:37  <Bjarni> pavel1269: you aren't me :P
14:56:44  <Bjarni> you are you
14:56:50  <Gonozal_VIII> but you can't watch it moving from outside!
14:57:40  <SpComb> the number of requests per second is quite high at the moment :/
14:58:15  <Rubidium> wait till it gets posted of slashdot ;)
14:58:24  <Bjarni> :P
14:58:40  <SpComb> and there's several Mb/s of HTTP traffic going on
14:59:29  <Bjarni> SpComb: can you update it a bit more often... the train can jump several tiles in one update
14:59:41  <Bjarni> well... two tiles
14:59:50  <SpComb> it's not really meant to be real-time
14:59:51  <Bjarni> it gives me one frame for every 2nd tile
15:00:14  <Bjarni> 0,5 fpt
15:00:20  <SpComb> doing 35fps with twenty 150x150 .pngs is... difficult
15:00:45  <Bjarni> not really
15:00:53  <Bjarni> you just need better hardware
15:01:13  <Gonozal_VIII> you could try torrent style with the clients sharing the pngs :-)
15:01:25  <pavel1269> my train on his way :)
15:02:43  <pavel1269> :(
15:03:07  <Gonozal_VIII> it stopped?
15:03:28  <pavel1269> timeout?
15:03:59  <Gonozal_VIII> no i was searching for your train...
15:04:27  <pavel1269> u can see over that pages signs :)
15:04:51  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't load anything anymore
15:04:54  <pavel1269> but ... look like server is dead
15:07:27  <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes
15:07:32  <Gonozal_VIII> we killed it
15:07:42  <pavel1269> you killed it ^^
15:07:49  <Gonozal_VIII> :'(
15:07:52  <pavel1269> ;)
15:07:58  <pavel1269> it iwll be back ...
15:08:00  <pavel1269> i ope
15:08:02  <pavel1269> *hope
15:11:06  <Bjarni> *I
15:11:09  <Bjarni> *will
15:11:12  <pavel1269> tahts great feature! if it will only make one pic per ten minutes, it will be so great to see over internet browser whats happening on server
15:11:19  <Bjarni> *that's
15:11:40  <Bjarni> pavel1269: are you drunk?
15:11:45  <pavel1269> no :)
15:11:57  <pavel1269> i just don't speak english well
15:12:14  <Bjarni> now was your chance to blame alcohol instead of looking like a retard XD
15:12:24  <pavel1269> ... ./
15:12:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11557 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:12:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: send and store the passwords a little more secure to/in the servers.
15:12:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Each server and game yield a (usually) different 'salt'. This salt is used by
15:12:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the clients to hash their passwords. This way the passwords are not sent in
15:12:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: clear text and it is not trivial to use those hashes on other servers.
15:12:37  <Bjarni> oh .cz
15:12:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: NOTE: It is still NOT safe to use your trusted passwords and it will not stop
15:12:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: people from being able to 'hijack' your password, it only makes it harder to do
15:12:55  <Bjarni> I guess Czech and English aren't very similar after all
15:13:00  <pavel1269> :)
15:13:03  <pavel1269> yeah
15:13:34  <Bjarni> which means.... you just have to work harder on your English
15:13:41  <pavel1269> otherwise, it still my fault :(
15:13:44  <pavel1269> yeah :)
15:14:05  <Bjarni> *it's
15:14:13  <pavel1269> i just wanted to write it :D
15:14:16  <Bjarni> you left out a whole word :o
15:14:30  <pavel1269> it's so small word :P
15:14:33  <pavel1269> ;)
15:14:39  <Hendikins> Ah, I love pulling strings.
15:14:45  <Bjarni> *small a word
15:14:57  <Bjarni> Hendikins: I thought you had electric trains
15:15:07  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm czech... i remember something that sounded like: hugojetta panasta vystup bla prestup sagitar sevirai"
15:15:09  <Hendikins> Not that.
15:15:21  <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII: what? :)
15:15:31  <Bjarni> ohh... rack trains
15:15:32  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i heard that in the subway^^
15:15:36  <SpComb> Gonozal_VIII: the trouble isn't really the bandwidth, it's the fact that you can't cache them and have to generate each screenshot every time
15:15:45  <Hendikins> There was a botched upgrade at MozillaZine that resulted in the trashing of around 1000 forum accounts. I bent the rules and got mine back.
15:15:50  * Bjarni goes to find the links on some... unusual rack trains
15:16:01  <SpComb> unless you want to give up some latency, although then you need to somehow make it so that all the tiles visible on the screen are of the same age
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15:16:36  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i heard that in the subway^^ <--- well... since nobody around them could understand them then it could be pedophile talk or planning armed robberies
15:16:42  <Bjarni> or perverted talk
15:16:55  <Bjarni> be careful what you repeat like that :P
15:16:55  <SpComb> pavel1269: I'm interesting in hearing about what you could use this feature for
15:16:57  <pavel1269> i am trying to "decompile" it :D
15:17:16  <LordAzamath> hi all again
15:17:29  <Gonozal_VIII> nah it guess it was about doors closing and being careful or something like that
15:17:56  <pavel1269> SpComb: well, if sameone want to see tracks on server, he dont have to join ...
15:18:17  <Gonozal_VIII> it wasn't some people talking, it came from the speakers at every station
15:18:46  <pavel1269> ahh :D
15:19:30  <pavel1269> "ukoncete prosim yvstup a nastup, dvere se zaviraji" or something similar ;)
15:19:36  <pavel1269> *vystup :)
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15:20:22  <Gonozal_VIII> possibly... i don't know because i can't read that but it looks simmilar
15:20:43  <pavel1269> and its about that, doors are closing ;)
15:20:50  <Gonozal_VIII> yay :D
15:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> <ln-> do i remember correctly that the french ortography approximates the way french was spoken on the 13th century, or so? <- that's the good thing about german, the spelling standardisation happened around 1900, so it is not very far off from how it is spoken
15:21:10  <SpComb> pavel1269: so if there was an url in the server name that would let you see this scrollable thing, you'd check that before joining the server?
15:21:26  <pavel1269> yes
15:21:29  <Gonozal_VIII> there were signs with "vystup" and "prestup" all over the place so i guessed those words were in there
15:22:18  <Bjarni> found them :D
15:22:33  <Bjarni> now sit back and be amazed
15:22:36  <Bjarni>
15:22:44  <Bjarni>
15:22:51  <Bjarni>
15:22:58  <Bjarni>
15:23:00  <pavel1269> rofl
15:23:25  <Gonozal_VIII> SpComb, you could generate checksums for the parts and only update the pictures that changed...
15:23:35  <pavel1269> :)
15:23:44  <Hendikins> Bjarni: Now I've seen everything
15:23:48  <Bjarni> the best part is that it's a real railroad that decided to have special looking rolling stock... it's not a theme park or anything
15:25:27  <Hendikins> I most commonly see these:
15:25:30  <Bjarni> <-- hey they even have level crossings even though they use that cable between the rails thingie
15:26:00  <Hendikins> What does that run on, toy gauge?
15:26:07  <Bjarni> 1067 mm
15:26:15  <Hendikins> A "Yes" will suffice.
15:26:16  <Bjarni> aka Japanese standard gauge
15:26:43  <Bjarni> it's also New Zealand standard gauge if you like
15:26:45  <Gonozal_VIII> would be perfect toyland grfs^^
15:26:52  <pavel1269> :D
15:27:25  <Hendikins> 1067mm is generally considered to be narrow gauge. Some people over here call it "toy gauge" to annoy railfans in Queensland.
15:27:30  <Bjarni> I think I will send a mail to the guys who made the Japanese rail set to include those... they are Japanese after all
15:28:00  <Bjarni> Hendikins: hehe... I didn't know that 1067 mm was referred to as toy gauge
15:28:19  <Hendikins> Bjarni: Only to shit stir :)
15:28:27  <Bjarni> Japan use it for everything
15:28:40  <Bjarni> New Zealand use it for pretty long freight trains
15:28:51  <Hendikins> Queensland does some pretty impressive stuff with it.
15:29:22  <Hendikins>
15:31:15  <Bjarni> <--- maybe the gauge could be considered toy sized, but the train certainly isn't
15:31:26  <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, youtube!
15:32:02  <pavel1269> :)
15:32:09  <Bjarni> too bad they have DC in their catenary
15:32:11  <Hendikins> Gootube? :P
15:32:19  <Hendikins> QR doesn't.
15:32:19  <Bjarni> and can't even make up their minds about voltage
15:33:03  <Hendikins> At least we don't mix voltages. We don't even have intercapital electrification, and all 4 electrified capital city systems use a single voltage.
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15:33:30  <Hendikins> Melbourne and Sydney on 1500V DC, Brisbane (and IIRC, Perth) on 25kV AC
15:35:19  <Gonozal_VIII> dc is nice
15:35:52  <Gonozal_VIII> you can generate ac with just the right frequency for the engines out of it :-)
15:37:03  <Gonozal_VIII> we have engines that go ac --> dc --> ac
15:37:33  <Bjarni> I thought it was a nightmare with voltage in catenary in Europe, but Japan... well look for yourself:
15:37:36  <Bjarni> it's a mess
15:38:05  <Bjarni> "Tsukuba Express - 1500 V DC and 20 kV AC"
15:38:23  <Bjarni> bbl
15:38:39  <Rubidium> :O most likely going to be on that train in a few months
15:38:43  <Gonozal_VIII> that hurts if you forget to switch
15:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tuba Express?
15:40:46  <Gonozal_VIII> 16 2/3 Hz :S
15:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> the Hz are not an immediate problem, but the Voltage difference...
15:41:40  <Gonozal_VIII> why do we have 16 2/3 Hz?
15:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: because in the early 20th century, transformators ignited a spark on each phase
15:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> or rather two sparks
15:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> reducing the frequency by 1/3 reduced the chance of overheating
15:42:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i see...
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15:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> this was not an issue for countries who introduced electric traction at later dates (mid 20th century)
15:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is a usual problem for techical pioneers
15:45:10  <glx> there are at least 4 systems
15:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> by the time you develop an established system, you have to live with some early non-optimal design decisions
15:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> or invest a lot of money to switch to the new system
15:46:13  <glx> just use an engine that can work with all ;)
15:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, germany (and austria) decided for a standard system very early
15:47:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> for the main rail network
15:47:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> other systems exist only for isolated networks (e.g. tram, subway, ...)
15:47:46  <glx> I know some thalys engines can work on 4 systems
15:48:01  <glx> PBKA line
15:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> they go inter-european... that had always been an issue
15:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> switzerland also has 16 2/3 Hz, i believe, but they have a smaller loading gauge because of their many tunnels
15:50:08  <Gonozal_VIII> All four European electric systems (15 and 25 kV AC, 1.5 and 3 kV DC) can be used by the ES 64 U4 :-)
15:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> so engines that go to switzerland (some ICE do that) need to have different pantographs there
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15:51:48  <Gonozal_VIII> On 2 September 2006 the locomotive 1216 050 (prior to delivery to ÖBB) set a new world record for conventional electric locomotives, as during the trials near NÃŒrnberg it reached a top speed of 357 km/h [1]. Remarkably enough, the locomotive was not modified for the record.
15:51:50  <Gonozal_VIII> :D
15:52:21  * glx slaps Gonozal_VIII for not using UTF-8 ;)
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15:52:47  <Gonozal_VIII> :-(
15:53:28  <glx> first square is probably ÖBB
15:53:29  <Gonozal_VIII> On 2 September 2006 the locomotive 1216 050 (prior to delivery to OEBB) set a new world record for conventional electric locomotives, as during the trials near Nuernberg it reached a top speed of 357 km/h [1]. Remarkably enough, the locomotive was not modified for the record.
15:54:28  <glx> and I guessed the second one too ;)
15:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> once upon a time the /topic said UTF-8 is mandatory
15:55:01  <Gonozal_VIII> 357 km/h... and they pull some 3 wagon regional trains here...
15:55:09  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: and no bash/qdb links
15:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i.e. two days ago)
15:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't notice, because my client does on-the-fly conversion
15:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> (... of bash/qdb links :p)
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15:59:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11558 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttd.nfo openttdgui.nfo): -Change: silence some warnings that nforenum would give.
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16:10:59  <Bjarni> back
16:11:29  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> why do we have 16 2/3 Hz? <-- Eddi|zuHause2 is right. Some EMU line in Germany tried to use the cheaper 50 Hz and they melted the copper in the engines (oops)
16:11:58  <Bjarni> 16 2/3 Hz is 1000 RPM in the generator
16:12:28  <Bjarni> 1000 RPM is a common speed when it comes to railroads... it's the most common max speed for diesel locomotives
16:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure in how far that applies to diesel-hydraulic engines (very common in germany)
16:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> the ICE-TD were an attempt of diesel-electric, didn't work out that well...
16:15:30  <Bjarni> hehe
16:16:09  <Bjarni> diesel-electric has the potential to work better than diesel-mechanic
16:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i heard diesel-electric is very common in britain
16:16:18  <Bjarni> but it's not a sure way to a good design
16:16:33  <Bjarni> diesel-electric is the way to go in the entire world
16:16:45  <Bjarni> except Germany... do you know why?
16:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i assume diesel-hydraulic was a proven concept long before diesel-electric came up
16:17:33  <Bjarni> actually not
16:17:49  <Gonozal_VIII> because diesel is more expensive than electric?
16:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: this is about the internal workings... all diesel enginges are driven by the same diesel
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16:18:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> the difference is the way the energy takes from the burning process to the wheel traction
16:19:07  <Bjarni> Germany was THE locomotive factory in Europe until WW2. After WW2 everybody had to replace their steam trains with diesel and USA got the idea that Germany shouldn't be the country to deliver them because the war should be reason enough for them not to make money so they banned German produced diesel-electric locomotives
16:19:30  <Bjarni> then the only alternative that could make locomotives in the needed amount was General Motors
16:19:46  <Bjarni> however Germany came up with diesel-hydralics to get around the diesel-electric ban
16:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> that might be an explanation ;)
16:20:28  <Bjarni> diesel-electric is better suited for the heavy work all locomotives has to do
16:20:44  <Bjarni> trains tend to weigh several tons
16:21:16  <Bjarni> electric traction have a way easier time starting under such a load
16:24:06  <Bjarni> well... long story short: USA used the war to gain a new big market for General Motors
16:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> you just have to get the engine to speed before coupling with the wheels to start to drive...
16:24:29  <Bjarni> well
16:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is well known that the USA are THE economic winner of the war
16:24:46  <SpComb> <-- woo! I has myself a single sprite!
16:25:03  <Bjarni> that's not really possible with mechanical traction... it's a bit easier with hydraulic traction but still...
16:25:03  <SpComb> although the background needs to be transparent and it needs to draw the wagons as well
16:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> unlike the other "winners" (france, britain, soviet union), they never had a fight on their mainland
16:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> so the infrastructure was completely intact
16:25:44  <Bjarni> electric traction has a whole lot more force to start on compared to all other used traction types for railroads (when comparing locomotives of the same amount of HP)
16:26:17  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> unlike the other "winners" (france, britain, soviet union), they never had a fight on their mainland <-- except for Pearl Harbour
16:26:34  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
16:26:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> a far offshore island hardly counts as "main land" :p
16:26:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't say so
16:27:11  <Bjarni> but then again Japan made a counter attack on USA. USA used oil blockade as a weapon. Japan used bombs
16:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> when you speak of USA main land, you generally exclude Alaska and Hawaii
16:27:51  <Bjarni> do you know why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour?
16:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it was the nearest target?
16:28:16  <glx> because they could?
16:28:31  <Bjarni> no
16:29:31  <LordAzamath> because it was the only place USA could reach them (they did anyway, but I don't remember history classes well)?
16:29:32  <Bjarni> USA decided to butt in on Japan's war against Korea and declared that all oil producing countries should boycott Japan
16:29:47  <Bjarni> Japan used diplomacy to stop that but everybody else did as USA told them to do
16:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: the V120 (pre-war diesel engine (prototype)) was diesel-pneumatic
16:30:36  <Bjarni> then Japan knew that they had to do something. Having the biggest navy in the Pacific is useless without oil when it's diesel powered so they took control of the Dutch oil wells in Indonesia
16:31:16  <Bjarni> they attacked Pearl Harbour, Bangkok and a few other strongholds to make sure that no stronghold could make a sneak attack on their oil tankers
16:31:52  <Bjarni> basically the attack on Pearl Harbour was a war on who controls the oil and who is allowed to get oil from the controllers
16:31:57  <Bjarni> hmm
16:32:06  <Bjarni> haven't we heard about wars like that before?
16:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> the V120 had pistons known from steam engines, driven by a diesel compressor
16:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> diesel-mechanic traction is only useful with low power (e.g. railcars)
16:33:28  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: the V120 (pre-war diesel engine (prototype)) was diesel-pneumatic <--- scientists have come up with a whole lot of different ideas to see what could be usable. The question is which designs that can gain trust at the guys with the money
16:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, the order of the V120 was not given because of upcoming oil-shortage during the war
16:34:20  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> diesel-mechanic traction is only useful with low power (e.g. railcars) <-- actually the limitation is how much force you can get though the gearbox/clotch. A light railcar needs less force to gain the same acceleration
16:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... "force", that's what i meant when i said "power"
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16:35:41  <Bjarni> you can actually apply high power as long as you have a force limitation
16:36:17  <Bjarni> it's just not very usable to be able to have a high power output (possibly high speed) when you can't have the needed force to make it practically usable
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16:39:53  <Bjarni> say you have an engine that has enough power to drive 200 km/h, but at 80 km/h, the resistance evens out the max force from the engine then the engine is really poorly designed
16:40:38  <Bjarni> hehe... speaking of ICE-TD... it's on the news here today
16:41:06  <Bjarni> since they aren't needed in Germany anymore some clever guy figured "let's send them to Denmark"
16:41:24  <Bjarni> to make a line between Hamburg and Copenhagen
16:41:40  <Bjarni> and they are pretty far in the process and now they noticed something
16:41:50  <hylje> haha wut
16:41:58  <Bjarni> ICE standard platforms and Danish standard platforms don't match
16:42:09  <hylje> in the wrong way?
16:42:40  <Bjarni> today they announced some station names where ICE will not stop anyway because it wouldn't be safe to get in and out of the train
16:43:09  <Bjarni> the platforms are too low, making a huge step
16:43:26  <hylje> ha
16:43:31  <Bjarni> and nobody considered checking this earlier?
16:43:43  <hylje> everybody assumed somebody already checked
16:43:47  <hylje> but wouldnt that be kinda trivial to make ramps for the doors
16:44:00  <hylje> because the trains should be able to stop quite accurately for them
16:44:06  <Bjarni> the platforms should still fit the local trains...
16:44:19  <hylje> sure
16:44:30  <hylje> its not like the platform needs to be a perpetual ramp
16:44:47  * Bjarni decides to turn on the TV news to see what they have to say about it
16:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> normally, trains have adjustable steps under the door that go out to fit the different height platforms
16:45:41  <Bjarni> well... it's not the first time train size came as a surprise in Denmark
16:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i guess that was only needed for local rail lines
16:46:05  <Bjarni> I have no idea how many signals, platforms and stuff that has been moved due to new trains being wider than the old ones
16:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> as the long-distance stations probably have standardised heights
16:47:38  <hylje> long distance implies speed implies new stuff implies more standard (recent) stuff
16:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> unlike the USA, who just used the new engines, and the bridge broke because nobody checked if it would hold the double weight
16:47:42  <Bjarni> I like this one a lot: When the lines in Copenhagen got new EMUs, they were wider than the old ones, so to prepare for them they made a wooden frame of the size of it, put it on one of those work units and drove around noting everywhere it hit something and made sure it was moved
16:47:46  <Bjarni> what's wrong with that plan?
16:48:19  <hylje> hm?
16:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> different sizes in curves?
16:49:37  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> unlike the USA, who just used the new engines, and the bridge broke because nobody checked if it would hold the double weight  <-- the railroads declared this unexpected bad luck that nobody could have guessed would happen... that story worked well for a few decades until the passengers formed kind of unions who wanted to punish railroad owners who didn't do anything for security
16:49:43  * SpComb wonders who to ask about code that was commited in r1
16:50:02  <Bjarni> and the politicians likes to do what the voters likes to do so they made a new law banning really low security
16:50:08  <SpComb> or would anybody happen to know how to get libpng to generate pngs with a transparent background instead of a black one?
16:50:26  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> different sizes in curves? <-- actually not
16:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> then, please, enlighten us
16:51:00  <Bjarni> the real issue was.... distance between two tracks on a double tracked line... they checked one track at a time and didn't realise that the safety distance between two passing trains was violated
16:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... you must have pretty narrow distance then...
16:52:14  <Bjarni> or a wide safety margin
16:52:27  <Bjarni> also it was a certain spot on a specific station
16:52:31  <Bjarni> and only one station
16:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> so, what happened?
16:52:55  <Bjarni> eventually somebody noticed
16:53:12  <Bjarni> and I presume one of the tracks is moved a few cm
16:53:22  <Bjarni> it's not like some trains hit each other
16:53:32  <Sacro> :o
16:53:37  <Sacro> Activision and Blizzard merger
16:53:44  <Bjarni> what?
16:53:51  <Bjarni> URL?
16:53:57  <Sacro>
16:58:39  <Bjarni> I can't tell if it's good or bad
16:58:47  <Bjarni> but I have a feeling that it's bad
16:58:48  <hylje> probably bad
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16:59:24  <Bjarni> well... good thing I'm not 3D junkie
16:59:25  <Digitalfox> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Don't mess with blizzard they have the best games ever, like Starcraft Warcraft and Diablo, damn always all about money........ :(
16:59:39  <Bjarni> basically I'm not into the games those two companies makes anyway
16:59:46  <Bjarni> except Star Craft
17:00:01  <hylje> it might be good if blizz keeps its way
17:00:05  <hylje> but maybe not
17:01:11  * Bjarni wonders why burning a DVD from HD A makes HD B really active
17:02:02  <SpComb> there's not even a #libpng channel :(
17:02:22  <Bjarni> try some other network like freenode or quakenet
17:04:14  <SpComb> #libpng on Quakenet? Hah
17:04:20  <SpComb> I tried freenode and OFTC
17:04:46  <Bjarni> quakenet contains a whole lot of weird stuff so you never know
17:05:13  <Sacro> like me!
17:06:08  <SmatZ> like you
17:08:02  <SpComb> the documentation for it is a bit non-overviewish, and there's not very much third-party stuff about it
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17:08:51  <Bjarni> great... somebody got the idea to calculate the amount of CO2 produced in Denmark and divide it on the population... nothing new there except they decided to include all ships using Danish flags and now they claim Denmark to be a really polluting country because they include all the MAERSK ships
17:08:58  <Bjarni> how useless is that???
17:09:32  <SmatZ> what is wrong about that?
17:09:35  <Bjarni> we will become more environmentally friendly if we change all MAERSK ships to use flags from countries like Panama?
17:09:44  <SmatZ> yes
17:10:07  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> what is wrong about that? <-- MAERSK if by far the biggest container shipping company. They transport containers all over the world
17:10:08  <SmatZ> when Denmark changes its laws, it will become more environment friedly
17:10:49  <SmatZ> anyway - how much pollution can ships cause?
17:10:55  <Bjarni> so the new calculation means that when a Danish ship transport containers between USA and Asia then it counts as our local emissions
17:11:16  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> anyway - how much pollution can ships cause? <-- a lot when they are big and there are a lot of them
17:11:31  <SmatZ> then they should be renewed to cause less pollution
17:11:44  <Gonozal_VIII> sails :D
17:11:50  <SmatZ> :)
17:13:01  <ln-> KritiK: пОМг
17:13:13  <KritiK> пПМг
17:14:37  <ln-> KritiK: is there any pair of similar words in russian, where the difference of meaning changes only by changing ш/щ?
17:14:38  *** Purno [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15:05  <Bjarni> <-- "    * 600 (+) owned & chartered container ships." <--- not only are they huge in numbers, but also size
17:15:16  <Bjarni> they own the biggest container ships in the world
17:15:24  <KritiK> ln-: no
17:15:40  <Gonozal_VIII> [18:13:01] ln-: KritiK: Ð ¿ Ð ž Ð œ Ð ³
17:15:40  <Gonozal_VIII> [18:13:13] KritiK: Ð ¿ Ð Ÿ Ð œ Ð ³
17:16:09  <KritiK> Gonozal_VIII: I see only garbage
17:16:18  <Gonozal_VIII> me too
17:16:28  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: you are not using UTF-8, unlike instructed in the topic.
17:16:32  <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: does your client support UTF8?
17:16:52  <ln-> KritiK: ok. thanks. that's.. interesting.
17:16:54  <Gonozal_VIII> utf-8 again... that sucks
17:17:26  <KritiK> ln-: np
17:17:27  <Bjarni> <--- well... this is basically the size
17:19:57  <Bjarni> <--- this this is the biggest class
17:21:11  <Bjarni> it goes without saying that so many so big ships has to transport for more or less all countries so declaring that one country alone should be responsible for the pollution is kind of far out
17:22:02  <Gonozal_VIII> the country that owns them is responsible for them
17:22:11  <Bjarni> sure
17:22:27  <Bjarni> but it's not the same as declaring that we waste energy while other countries don't
17:23:19  <Bjarni> we should consider pollution from ships (which is a mistake in the Kyoto protocol) but declaring international shipping a national problem isn't the right way to do it
17:23:27  <Gonozal_VIII> we austrians waste much less on ships!
17:24:32  <Gonozal_VIII> our whole coastline is ship-free!
17:24:43  <Bjarni> coastline?
17:24:46  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
17:24:51  <Bjarni> in Austria?
17:25:06  <Bjarni> I think you lost that one in the 19th century
17:25:15  <Gonozal_VIII> see? no ships
17:25:26  <Vikthor> Bjarni: No, after WW1
17:26:23  <Bjarni> ok, then right after the 19th century
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17:26:39  <Bjarni> it's not like it matters for the current situation
17:26:39  <Gonozal_VIII> btw what are the red frames for?
17:26:59  <SmatZ> we are inland country, but we had several ships... but they were sold in privatisation (=stolen and sold by Viktor Kozeny I think)
17:27:10  <Bjarni> in OTTD?
17:27:19  <Gonozal_VIII> on the ships
17:27:29  <Gonozal_VIII> the pictures you posted
17:27:56  <Bjarni> ahh
17:28:06  <Bjarni> it's the limit for how far into the water they are allowed to go
17:28:07  <Gonozal_VIII> do they pull those frames out like drawers with the containers on them and put different ones in instead? :-)
17:28:10  <Bjarni> due to heavy cargo
17:28:24  <Bjarni> or are we talking about a different red thing? :)
17:28:58  <Gonozal_VIII> the red stuff on deck :-)
17:29:04  <Bjarni> ok
17:29:20  <Bjarni> then I answered a different question
17:30:46  <SpComb> the libpng people should have found some time during the past 14 years to document their functions a little bit better
17:30:47  <Bjarni> the red/brown thingies on the deck is to connect to the containers... I presume it's for stability or making sure that the first container is placed correctly to ensure that there is room for the last one as well
17:31:01  <Bjarni> SpComb: :P
17:31:11  <SpComb> trying to figure out how to get libpng to give you a transparent background is almost as difficult as figuring out how OpenTTD's viewport code works
17:31:34  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: also it's possible that they are for connecting cables and stuff to the containers.... some containers needs electricity for cooling and stuff
17:31:53  <Gonozal_VIII> ah... could be
17:32:04  <SpComb> <-- otherwise fine, but the background is black :(
17:32:05  <Gonozal_VIII> but the drawer thing would be nice :D
17:32:16  <SpComb> and I'm not sure where the black comes from, perhaps it's OpenTTD's blitter
17:33:06  <Bjarni> maybe they can move containers sideways as well... for all we know some cranes are too short to reach the far end of the ship
17:33:11  <SmatZ> SpComb: maybe - sprite borders are transparent, and the background is zeroed (=black) before?
17:33:27  <Bjarni> though I think it would be easier and cheaper to ensure that all cranes are big enough
17:33:41  <Bjarni> MAERSK buys harbours and ensure that they fit their own ships
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17:34:47  <SpComb> the buffer that it's drawn to is zeroed before, I guess that's where the black comes from
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17:35:03  <SpComb> I need to somehow add a transparent palette entry and then fill the background with that
17:35:24  <SpComb> hmm, nevermind, the buffer being zeroed before is irrelevant
17:35:35  <Bjarni> yeah
17:35:55  <Bjarni> you still need a bitmask for what to be background and what to be image
17:37:01  <SpComb> bitmask where? :/
17:37:57  <Bjarni> I don't know
17:39:03  <Bjarni> the idea is to make an array of bits so you have one bit for each pixel
17:39:15  <Bjarni> then it's a bool if the pixel is the picture of background
17:39:23  <Bjarni> but I don't know how to actually do it
17:40:06  <SpComb> is that how it works for png as well?
17:40:28  <Sacro> ooh, interesting
17:40:28  <Bjarni> I think so but I'm not entirely sure
17:40:46  <Sacro> don't you need an alpha layer?
17:40:49  <Bjarni> not the best answer I could give you but... it's the best I can come up with
17:40:55  <SpComb> currently for 8bpp it does a paletted image, and there's some functions to do things to alpha of paletted somethings
17:41:05  <SpComb> so I don't think PNG uses a bitmask, but an alpha channel/palette
17:41:28  <Bjarni> <Sacro> don't you need an alpha layer? <-- I think I just described a 1-bit alpha layer
17:41:47  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes... isn't it normally 255bit?
17:41:59  <Bjarni> normally yes
17:42:04  <Bjarni> but one bit is in use as well
17:43:05  <SpComb> 19:42:32 [freenode] -!- tommy_ invites you to #deutscher_chat
17:43:08  <SpComb> join o rnot?
17:43:23  <Bjarni> for all you know it's a gay channel
17:43:39  <SpComb> they have a teamspeak
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17:47:43  <Rubidium> Bjarni: but what is a background pixel and what not?
17:50:13  <SpComb> I guess only the blitter knows that
17:50:24  <SpComb> I've managed to avoid looking at that code so far
17:51:06  <Rubidium> the blitter doesn't know that either
17:51:28  <Rubidium> the blitter just draws sprites in a particular order at a particular place
17:54:15  <Rubidium> it's the sprite sorter that 'figures' out what is in front of a sprite and what is not
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17:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: have i shown you this already?
18:00:32  <SpComb> hmm, now the entire image is completely transparent
18:00:54  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: "Surely there is not another language that is so slipshod and systemless" :-)
18:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> when i read that, i was sure you would appreciate it ;)
18:04:03  <SpComb> what I tried to do was set the palette entry for black to be transparent
18:04:20  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: sure , thanks :) we just now had some prepositions, but skipped most of them... mostly those with Genitiv/Akusativ (I think)
18:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> then, clearly, you did something wrong ;)
18:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> most of them require either Dativ or Akkusativ
18:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> the few that require Genitiv you usually would get away with using Dativ instead, in a german conversation (but not when talking to a teacher)
18:06:25  <Rubidium> reminds me of when I had to learn German and fill in those 'grammar' thingies... I consistently used plurar, which meant my sentences where grammatically correct, though they were not semantically
18:06:43  <SmatZ> :-)
18:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod"
18:07:29  <SmatZ> "But when he, upon the street, the (in-satin-and-silk-covered-now-very-unconstrained-after-the-newest-fashioned-dressed) government counselor's wife met," Wenn er aber auf der Strasse der in Sammt und Seide gehÌllten jetzt sehr ungenirt nach der neusten Mode gekleideten RegierungsrÀthin begegnet.
18:07:30  <SmatZ> :-D
18:08:20  <SpComb> gah, now it's unable to load any savegames at all
18:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd say there are a few commas missing
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18:16:20  * SpComb writes a new aalib blitter and replaces the 8bpp one with it
18:16:37  <SpComb> that would solve a lot of problems
18:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> aalib is fun, certainly ;)
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18:23:40  <SmatZ> SpComb: you can do that now
18:23:42  <SmatZ> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=aalib ./openttd
18:24:49  <SpComb> does it work over SSH, or does SDL break on that?
18:25:08  <SmatZ> it should work, I didn't try that yet
18:25:15  <SmatZ> *haven't tried that
18:26:25  <SpComb> let's see
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19:17:37  <SpComb> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=aalib ./bin/openttd -v sdl
19:18:01  <SpComb> Error: Unable to load driver 'sdl'. The error was: No available video device
19:18:14  <SpComb> perhaps including the error message as well as the command might be better :)
19:18:29  <Sacro> SDL_GetError()!
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19:21:45  <SpamCannon> hay
19:21:56  <SpamCannon> I've got a question.
19:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> i've got an answer
19:22:06  <Sacro> with a name like that, I have several
19:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is 42.
19:22:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11559 /trunk/src/ (core/bitmath_func.cpp core/bitmath_func.hpp graph_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1505]: overflow when drawing graphics with high company values.
19:22:48  <SpamCannon> I've used this name since 2002. Flooding is not what I do. That's just my name.
19:23:14  <SmatZ> :-)
19:23:18  <SpamCannon> Anyway, going into Multiplayer, I click Find Servers and nothing comes up. What am I doing wrong?
19:23:23  *** LordAzamath [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:23:53  <SpamCannon> Eddi, I love Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :D
19:23:57  <Rubidium> you are searching the local lan?
19:24:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11560 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Codechange: replace 'custom' version of FindLastBit with the generic.
19:24:04  <SpamCannon> Nope, Internets
19:24:08  <Rubidium> or your firewall drops the packets
19:24:10  <SpamCannon> Also, hay sup Rubidium.
19:24:54  <SpamCannon> Okay, that's a start. I did add openttd.exe to the exceptions list, but same result. Should I be looking at opening a port on my router instead?
19:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, most likely, your firewall trops the UDP packages
19:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> s/t/d/
19:25:23  <SpamCannon> I have the normal Windows XP firewall.
19:25:44  <Sacro> the SP2 one?
19:26:19  <SpamCannon> The... okay, I suck at computers. If it gets any more complex than MSPaint, I'm usually at a loss.
19:27:11  <SpamCannon> Also, openttd's multiplayer used to work on this computer with the same hardware/software just fine before.
19:27:19  <SpamCannon> But that was a year ago.
19:27:49  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
19:28:26  <SpamCannon> Which port should I be gunning for, if I ever figure out how to open one?
19:28:53  <Rubidium> @openttd ports
19:28:53  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
19:30:20  <SpamCannon> Oh, hold on... Maybe this will fix it. PeerGuardian 2 has been blocking what it refers to as "Refresh Media". I'll try again.
19:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: as a first debug measure, i'd advise you to go to, pick a server, and connect to it via IP address
19:30:50  <SpamCannon> Okiedoke, I'll do that right after this bit fails.
19:31:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> you seem very confident ;)
19:31:20  <SpamCannon> Aha!
19:31:35  <SpamCannon> PeerGuardian 2 was indeed to blame.
19:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that'd have been my primary suspect
19:32:17  <SpamCannon> It's a program that block malicious traffic (prying eyes) while you're torrenting stuff. Privacy-related. But for some reason it also block openttd.
19:32:27  <SpamCannon> blocks
19:32:49  <SpamCannon> MediaSentry and all sorts of anti-p2p networks stay where they should stay - out.
19:33:40  <ln-> everyone stop talking! ben_goodger has arrived.
19:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is really no need to explain... one half of the people know, and the other half does not need to know ;)
19:33:57  <SpamCannon> Thanks a lot for your time, guys.
19:33:58  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
19:34:46  <ben_goodger> yes, everyone shut up and listen to me. I have an important announcement to make concerning my career as a professional troll! ...or just continue/start acting like rational human beings
19:35:08  <SpamCannon> It makes no sense to drop being a troll. Ever.
19:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i sense an upcoming *plonk*
19:35:30  <ben_goodger> hm?
19:35:34  <SpamCannon> Selective trolling? Yes. Retire trolling? No.
19:35:42  <SpamCannon> Retire from*
19:54:04  <SpamCannon> What's the bandwidth usage for running a server?
19:57:09  <gono_ping_timeout> "it depends"
19:57:54  <ln-> depends on how much you troll on the chat.
19:58:04  <SpamCannon> Okay, let's say you're running a 1024x2048 server that is fairly popular and usually has at least 5 people playing.
19:58:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: it is said around 3kb per client, plus downloading the map multiple times
19:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> the first half can be reduced by setting net_frame_freq, the second one by reducing the map size
19:59:11  <SpComb> 3kbit/s?
19:59:21  <gono_ping_timeout> easiest way to reduce map size is to cut down the trees
19:59:24  <SpComb> 3kB/s?
19:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, kbyte
19:59:33  <SpamCannon> What's the downside of reducing net_frame-freq?
19:59:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> increased lag between issuing a command and getting a result
20:00:20  <SpamCannon> Okay, so, in reality, I don't want to reduce either, right?
20:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. if you set net_frame_freq=3, the servers waits 3 ticks, gathers all commands issued during that time, and sends them as a bulk, together with the randomseed as checksum
20:01:42  *** glx|away [] has joined #openttd
20:01:45  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ
20:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> usually, commands are very few, so the main bandwidth is taken up by the checksum
20:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> it was reported that some people still had playable games with net_frame_freq=10
20:02:31  *** glx is now known as Guest70
20:02:31  *** glx|away is now known as glx
20:02:39  <SpamCannon> gono_ping_timeout, how do I reduce trees apart from initial settings and then blowing them up later? Is there a way to set a maximum number of trees for the map at any point in time?
20:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> generally, the higher the number, the more frames get left out
20:02:53  *** gono_ping_timeout is now known as Gonoozal_VIII
20:03:03  <SpamCannon> Also, I have no idea what randomseed/checksum is. I kinda understood what you said, tho.
20:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> a checksum is to check if all clients still have the same map
20:04:01  <Gonoozal_VIII> a map with lots of water is smaller than a land map of the same size... but that doesn't help much... you can't influence trees
20:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> a complete checksum would require much cpu time, so only the random seed (defines the sequence of (pseudo-)random numbers) is used
20:04:28  <SpamCannon> Aha. Yeah, that makes sense. But randomseed? Sounds an awfully wrong choice to send after checking something that's supposed to be definite.
20:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> so if one client makes a different random decision than the server, you issue a "desync error"
20:05:02  <Rubidium> the 'random' seed is not as 'random' as you think
20:05:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> the random seed must be the same on all clients at all times
20:05:26  <Rubidium> given the same initial vectors it will always generate the same sequence
20:05:51  <SpamCannon> Yeah, I remember the desyncs. Basically, every checksum only covers a portion of the game, but the same portion on every client?
20:06:37  <Rubidium> the 'checksum' is the random number, which covers the whole map
20:07:01  *** Guest70 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: this basically runs under the assumption, that when the map differs, sooner or later, a random decision is made on the server, that is not done on the client or vice versa (e.g. tree creation)
20:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> then the random seed differs, and BAM
20:08:33  <SpamCannon> Ahou. So the random seed is like a summery of the map, then?
20:08:43  <SpamCannon> summary*
20:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, almost
20:09:18  <SpamCannon> Well, refers to the whole map in its current state, anyway?
20:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
20:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> basically, what a random seed does:
20:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> when you make a random decision
20:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> you take the random seed
20:10:02  <Rubidium> 'current' being an interval of a few game days
20:10:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> and have a predictable formula to calculate a random number, and a new random seed
20:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> so when one client does a random decision, it changes the random seed
20:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> if the other client does not do a random decision, it leaves the random seed unchanged
20:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> then they differ
20:11:20  <SpamCannon> I understood that bit. Thanks.
20:11:58  <SpamCannon> Have the desyncs ceased happening or do you still get them?
20:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> occasionally there still are some
20:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> the reasons why they occure have changed
20:12:30  <Gonoozal_VIII> they used to be much more frequent
20:12:40  <Rubidium> but those are usually because of people are messing with version numbers and patches
20:13:01  <valhallasw> so if the server and client do something different using the same number of random numbers nothing will be detected?
20:13:07  <Gonoozal_VIII> i haven't had a desync for a long time
20:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> valhallasw: yes. but that is a really rare case
20:13:22  <valhallasw> of course
20:13:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11561 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1504] (r11463): group list was not updated when removing the last group
20:13:45  <Rubidium> and it would give a different random later due to the changes, or you must be really lucky
20:14:05  <SpamCannon> I remember I had some station that didn't collect cargo from a raw industry and at the same time people started desyncing heavily. I didn't. So I killed the station and made a new one. It worked like it was supposed to. People stopped desyncing. That's as close as I ever got.
20:14:23  <SpamCannon> Other than that, they always seemed to be random. And creepy.
20:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> valhallasw: note that you need to make the same amount of random decisions in each 100 tick period
20:14:37  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause2: *grin*
20:14:40  <Rubidium> like a one in a googolplex change
20:16:02  <SpamCannon> Hunger strikes. Back in a bit.
20:16:32  <Gonoozal_VIII> the desyncs seemed to happen more frequently when a line was jammed and several trains had to wait in front of red lights... but not only then, looked very random
20:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember, in MiniIN, CPU usage increased heavily, when my lines were jammed
20:18:50  <glx> pbs?
20:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i assume this was PBS related)
20:20:44  <valhallasw> the only desyncs I have had were grf-related, really
20:21:04  <Gonoozal_VIII> we didn't use grfs back then...
20:23:44  <SpamCannon> I read gf-related
20:24:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> everybody reads what he wants to read ;)
20:24:06  <Gonoozal_VIII> hehehe
20:24:19  <Rubidium> gf-related desyncs are usually called breakups or divorces
20:24:33  *** Greyscale [] has joined #openttd
20:24:50  <SpamCannon> Actually, one girlfriend did almost dump me because of openttd. She was like "Choose. Me or your game."
20:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember games that had "we do not cover divorce" in their terms of use ;)
20:25:24  <SpamCannon> I kinda got away with both, but a little later we split up anyway due to irreconcileable differences. A lot of them.
20:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning "[one of you] slept with multiple other persons"
20:26:24  <valhallasw> SpamCannon: 'you cheated on me with that game!' :p
20:26:38  <SpamCannon> Latter = true, former = not.
20:26:58  <SpamCannon> Actuially, we decided that each other was full of shit.
20:27:07  *** |Bastiaan| [] has joined #openttd
20:28:20  <SpamCannon> It worked out extremely well, because I ended up with a fantastic girlfriend only a little later.
20:29:12  <valhallasw> she is called 'OpenTTD'? :P
20:31:04  <SpamCannon> I know you would accept that as a legit answer if that was the case, but no. I quit playing OpenTTD when my partner decided that enough was enough and shut up the server. The fresh girlfriend is actually a real, genuine girl.
20:31:42  <valhallasw> :D
20:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> and we should believe that because this is the internet and a channel about openttd?
20:33:20  <SpamCannon> OpenTTD isn't a bad choice at all for a relationship when humans think you're too much of a basement dweller to associate with you. Better than Everquest, haha.
20:34:08  <valhallasw> *cough* WoW *cough*
20:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is your version of "selective trolling"?
20:34:29  <SpamCannon> Eddi, you're not obligated to believe anything. Reasons are the ones you mentioned. Take everything at face value.
20:35:05  <Gonoozal_VIII> hmmm basement would be nice.. no windows that you have to get light-proof if you want to sleep
20:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never had a problem with light when sleeping
20:35:49  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
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20:36:04  <Bjarni> looks like the connection dropped :s
20:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i mean even before i touched a computer for the first time ;)
20:36:27  <SpamCannon> I have never played neither Everquest nor WoW. I did consider starting up WoW at some point when it began (since I've been a fan of the Warcraft series since it began), but later I realized what a pointless timesink it would be and croessed it off.
20:36:31  <SpamCannon> crossed
20:36:49  <SpamCannon> When they make a new decent Warcraft RTS, I'll play it.
20:36:56  * Bjarni shares SpamCannon's viewpoint
20:36:58  <Gonoozal_VIII> i have wooden shutters outside but my grandparents often open them to put some random plants to my windows... and i have to revert those changes everytime
20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> note, that i always had a problem with sleeping when other people wanted me to sleep
20:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> but never with light...
20:38:29  <SpamCannon> I once slept on a pile of branches in the middle of the day in a firing range. While it was in use.
20:38:30  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: go to sleep NOW!
20:38:38  <SpamCannon> I sleep like rock.
20:38:44  <Gonoozal_VIII> i don't have a problem with the light from the computer monitor or tv but that daylight stuff bothers me
20:38:52  * Bjarni sets that to repeat every 3rd minute when Eddi|zuHause2 is supposed to code all night
20:39:26  <Bjarni> I don't have problems with light at all but I do have problems with noises
20:39:39  <Bjarni> they are noisy :s
20:39:55  <Gonoozal_VIII> yes they are
20:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> noises are a funny issue ;)
20:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> like i do not wake up from the radio supposed to wake me up
20:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> but from my sister knocking on my wall crying that my radio was so loud it woke her up ;)
20:40:38  <Gonoozal_VIII> tv running? no problem... somebody walking around in front of my door? instant awake
20:40:49  <Bjarni> when I'm supposed to sleep even a little noise can keep me awake
20:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> computer fan running in my room? no problem
20:41:31  <SpamCannon> I use the alarm clock's radio ro wake me up in the morning, too. Have to set it really loud, tho. Otherwise the noise/chat/music will somehow only integrate into the dream I'm having at the time and I wake up when I'm already supposed to be at work.
20:41:36  <Bjarni> actually I wasn't thinking of noise from TV or whatever
20:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> garbage car outside? baaaaad...
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20:41:43  <Bjarni> more like spinning HD and stuff
20:41:54  <Wolf01> hello
20:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> spinning up hard drive occasionally woke me up
20:42:15  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> garbage car outside? baaaaad... <-- I never notice that one
20:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's fine if my window is closed
20:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> but if it's open...
20:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you hear it from 3 roads away
20:42:45  <Gonoozal_VIII> window open? never!
20:42:50  <Bjarni> maybe it's because the railroad paid for sound proof windows to their neighbours
20:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning at least half an hour before it even arrives at my house
20:43:26  <Gonoozal_VIII> avalanches sometimes wake me up...
20:43:42  <Bjarni> <Gonoozal_VIII> window open? never! <--- heh... I close the window when I sleep... odds are that if I don't then some bozo will walk on the tracks and some train will show up.... you can imagine the rest
20:44:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> no railroad within the next 15km from here...
20:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty safe from that one :p
20:44:36  <Gonoozal_VIII> railroad is on the other side of the lake... far enough away
20:44:39  <Bjarni> 10 years ago it wasn't a problem
20:44:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the garbage car only comes every two weeks
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20:45:02  <Gonoozal_VIII> avalanches only in winter... obviously
20:45:02  <Bjarni> now I think somebody have made a regular shortcut across the tracks :(
20:45:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> and around here, there is no traffic whatsoever...
20:45:32  <Gonoozal_VIII> well, some random stones in spring...
20:46:13  * Bjarni awaits a locomotive pulled train going 120 km/h instead of the regular EMUs@60-80 km/h
20:46:22  <Bjarni> then a shortcut across the tracks is a really bad idea
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20:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> when i had my computer in my room, i could not sleep with the window closed...
20:46:36  <Bjarni> what?
20:46:43  <Gonoozal_VIII> too hot?
20:46:47  <Bjarni> sounds like an inefficient computer
20:46:54  <Bjarni> or toxic
20:46:56  <glx> just an old one
20:48:03  *** Rexxie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:48:56  <Gonoozal_VIII> if it gets too hot inside, i open the window for some minutes, until the water starts running down the glass...
20:49:53  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
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20:53:15  <SpamCannon> Doesn't get too hot inside here around this time of the year. I can't stand heat. I just wear more clothes when it gets frosty outside and the window has to be open.
20:53:32  <SpamCannon> Hate summers.
20:55:21  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:56:14  <SmatZ> looks drunk :)
20:56:21  <Gonoozal_VIII> well.. our summers aren't that hot, at least not for long
20:56:50  <Gonoozal_VIII> you editet the original grfs?
20:57:01  <SmatZ> no, just playing with blitter
20:57:28  <Gonoozal_VIII> i had something simmilar, when i changed a sprite and forgot to make the edges transparent
20:57:47  <SmatZ> :)
20:59:22  <SpamCannon> Your summers where? I'm in England and I'm not native to this place.
20:59:56  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonoozal_VIII is in austria
21:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> (mountaneous part i assume)
21:01:28  <Gonoozal_VIII> yes... mountains all around me
21:02:01  <Gonoozal_VIII>
21:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: you could add that to truebrains art series ;)
21:02:09  <SpamCannon> I've never witnessed an avalanche. That said, I've never even seen a mountain. If I did, I'd be like "Holy shit, a REAL mountain!"
21:02:36  <Gonoozal_VIII> hehehe
21:02:36  <SmatZ> :-)
21:02:48  <Bjarni> <--- hehe... install our antivirus app as the best protection against this
21:02:58  <Bjarni> how about: not giving your root password to a porn site?
21:03:12  <Gonoozal_VIII> they're not dangerous here, they only rumble a lot, feels like a small earthquake
21:03:42  <Bjarni> ohh... still talking about sleeping and avalanches
21:04:48  <Gonoozal_VIII> (not that i know how an earthquake feels like or something)
21:05:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a storm here last spring, that shook the house like it were an earthquake
21:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was also an earthquake here a few years ago, but it was in the night, and i did not wake up from it
21:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> other people that were closer to the center did report waking up and glasses breaking
21:06:24  <SpamCannon> I like how most of the spyware, worms and viruses you pick up from porn sites. Since I'm not a fan of them, I've had a grand total of 2 viruses over the past... 5 years. Last one was the MSN bugger.
21:06:32  <Gonoozal_VIII> storms are very rare here because of the mountains
21:06:53  <Bjarni> we had an earthquake some years ago. My mom noticed and said it at work and the other people laughed because they didn't feel a thing
21:07:15  <Bjarni> a bit later it was on the radio that an earthquake was recorded
21:07:28  <Bjarni> usually we don't have earthquakes here
21:07:37  <SpamCannon> Was that the one that happened in Russia, but kinda near Europe?
21:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> note that this was not a geological earthquake, but rather a mine collapsing
21:07:45  <Gonoozal_VIII> only to cover up their nuclear weapons tests :-)
21:07:56  <SmatZ> what do you think about zoom_in 2x?
21:08:19  <Bjarni> SmatZ: it's... kind of big
21:08:28  <Bjarni> feels weird
21:08:35  <Bjarni> like crashing into the ground
21:08:54  <Gonoozal_VIII> needs 32bpp
21:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> a tiny bit glitchy
21:09:03  <Bjarni> I actually have something telling me "pull up, pull up"
21:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> needs an AA filter
21:09:14  <SmatZ> yes, a bit glitchy...
21:09:23  <SmatZ> hmhm 32bit blitter could do AA
21:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i do not mean Ascii Art
21:09:36  <Bjarni> really?
21:09:41  <Gonoozal_VIII> that house is collapsing!
21:09:46  <SmatZ> :-D
21:09:46  <Bjarni> I would love ASCII Art inside the game
21:10:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: you could easily make an aa.grf
21:10:33  <Gonoozal_VIII> hmmm toyland to ascii replacement^^
21:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: there was this guy... zevensoft i believe... who added filters to the old ctrl+D
21:11:46  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: wasn't Ctrl+D working only on Windows?
21:11:56  <SpamCannon> homegrown eyecandy
21:12:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: he also ported Ctrl+D to sdl ;)
21:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is why i used his patch ;)
21:12:35  <SmatZ> :)
21:12:37  <Gonoozal_VIII> <-- ascii movie :D
21:13:08  <Bjarni>;topic=1102.0;id=1417;image <--- SimuTrans people are making a hand drawn set... we could do an AA set
21:13:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate the maglev graphics
21:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonoozal_VIII: ramstein?
21:14:21  <Gonoozal_VIII> yes, rammstein
21:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> "AFK47" is great ;)
21:16:30  <Bjarni> Gonoozal_VIII: <-- this ASCII movie beats your ASCII movie
21:16:43  <Bjarni> it's way longer
21:17:03  <Bjarni> and a more clever script
21:17:12  <Gonoozal_VIII> yes i know that one
21:18:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i remember seeing star wars in AA a long time ago
21:19:57  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
21:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> it appears to have been extended since then
21:22:27  <Sacro> "You cannot upload at this time, because our users have uploaded too much pornography. Uploads are disabled, although existing files will still work, until have had a change to implement anti-pornography measures. Not more than a week."
21:22:37  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
21:25:06  <Gonoozal_VIII> anti pornography measures... pattern detection that scans through the videos/pictures or how should that work? filenames can easily be changed
21:25:29  <SpamCannon> Additional porn police.
21:25:48  <SpamCannon> They'll just assign a bunch of new moderators.
21:26:22  <Gonoozal_VIII> what's your job? i search for porn
21:26:46  <SpamCannon> For many, that's a hobby.
21:27:04  <SpamCannon> Anyway, where are you trying to upload anyway?
21:27:32  <Bjarni> porn?
21:27:37  <Prof_Frink> Porn.
21:27:38  <Gonoozal_VIII> it's sacro...
21:27:46  <Gonoozal_VIII> of course it's porn
21:27:47  <Bjarni> then it's porn for sure
21:27:52  <Sacro>
21:27:56  <Sacro> and i wasn't trying to upload
21:27:57  <Prof_Frink> Sacro Porn?
21:28:00  <Sacro> i just spotted it on reddit
21:28:05  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: rule 34
21:28:07  <SpamCannon> Mind you, I have only been around here for a few hours, so I don't know everyone's backstory.
21:28:21  <Prof_Frink> That's what I was afraid of.
21:28:22  <Bjarni> there is a porn movie about failing to upload porn movies?
21:28:34  <Prof_Frink> SpamCannon: Sacro's from Hull.
21:28:42  <SpamCannon> No idea what that is.
21:28:52  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: s/'//
21:28:57  <SpamCannon> I know what Rule 34 is, tho.
21:28:57  <Bjarni> if you did then you would go for the porn explanation right away too
21:29:24  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: No.
21:29:47  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: Hull is in England known for... less than law and order
21:29:59  <Prof_Frink> It's known for being a typo
21:30:00  <Bjarni> and a whole lot of teenage pregnancies
21:30:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: no it's not
21:30:03  <Sacro> well yes
21:30:05  <Bjarni> it's not?
21:30:11  <Sacro> not less than law and order
21:30:13  <SpamCannon> oic
21:30:16  <Sacro> well, in some areas
21:30:34  <Bjarni> but Sacro..... you said you got your place smashed twice or so
21:30:53  <Bjarni> wouldn't that make it an unlawful place to be?
21:31:28  <KritiK> ln-: actually there are such pairs of words in Russian, e.g. плюш/плющ (plush/ivy)
21:31:30  <SpamCannon> I live in a nice quiet rural village in East Anglia. People are moderately wealthy around here and shit rarely happens. Actually, anything rarely happens, but I don't care for a lot happening anyway.
21:32:26  <Wolf01> 'night
21:32:29  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:32:47  <Gonoozal_VIII> anglia = england?
21:32:52  <SpamCannon> Yeah.
21:33:04  <Prof_Frink> Well, East Anglia = a county in England
21:33:20  <pavel1269> gn
21:33:23  <Gonoozal_VIII> :S
21:33:43  <SpamCannon> Actually, it's more like a portion of England. I live on the border between Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire.
21:33:43  *** pavel1269 [] has quit []
21:34:13  <Bjarni> are you the guys who declared yourself independent and went to war against NL for centuries because nobody declared peace?
21:34:21  <Bjarni> no
21:34:23  <Bjarni> wait
21:34:28  <Bjarni> that was in the western part
21:34:38  *** ben_goodger [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:34:52  <SpamCannon> I'm an immigrant, haha. I take no responsibility for England.
21:34:58  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
21:35:12  <Bjarni> you live on the border.... you mean if you get a girl to sleep over, she will sleep in Lincolnshire while you sleep in Cambridgeshire?
21:35:13  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: You may be thinking of Berwick-upon-Tweed
21:35:55  * ben_goodger concurs with Prof_Frink
21:36:08  <Bjarni> there is a bedroom where one end of it is in Denmark and the other end is in Germany so it's technically possible to sleep in the same room and in different countries at the same time
21:36:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11562 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1503] (r11546): aircraft sometimes stopped mid-air when the airport got destroyed.
21:36:28  <SpamCannon> o shi I think I left a tea brewing in the kitchen like an hour ago.
21:36:36  <Bjarni> :P
21:36:41  <Prof_Frink> SpamCannon: Make me one while you're there
21:36:42  <Bjarni> strong enough?
21:36:45  <Gonoozal_VIII> do you need your passport if you roll over at night?
21:36:57  <Bjarni> Gonoozal_VIII: in theory... yes
21:37:04  <SpamCannon> Prof, sure, how would you like it delivered? Airmail?
21:37:14  <SpamCannon> Or download?
21:37:16  <Bjarni> no
21:37:18  <Bjarni> FTP
21:37:27  <Bjarni> better make it p2p so we can all share it
21:37:43  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:37:43  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:37:50  <Bjarni> speaking of tea
21:37:52  <Bjarni> brb
21:38:11  <SpamCannon> Yeah, I'll seed.
21:38:44  <Gonoozal_VIII> my name is peer so i'll go first :D
21:38:56  <ben_goodger> and I'll seed an identically named copy that's actually orange juice ^_^
21:38:57  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
21:39:35  <ben_goodger> you have to love the internet...
21:40:09  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
21:40:35  <SpamCannon> I'll leave you bad comments on
21:40:50  <ben_goodger> :(
21:41:12  <SpamCannon> Warn people that it's not tea you're sharing.
21:41:35  <ben_goodger> people won't listen
21:42:05  <Prof_Frink> It's bad enough with TetleySentry poisoning torrents
21:42:05  <SpamCannon> If they don't , they can blame themselves afterwards.
21:42:20  <ben_goodger> heheh
21:42:40  <SpamCannon> Yeah, how does poisoning work, anyway? Do they somehow scramble the data between the peers?
21:43:05  <SpamCannon> I remember KaZaA came down with a severe case of "everything you download is scrambled".
21:43:21  <Prof_Frink> They just send garbage data
21:43:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11563 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Codechange: Align the preprocessor code in stdafx.h with tabs
21:43:40  <Prof_Frink> Which your client downloads, SHA1 checks and discards
21:43:51  <SpamCannon> So they seed garbage for people to download?
21:44:00  <Prof_Frink> Yeah
21:44:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: a client cannot judge wether given data is garbage until you have downloaded a complete chunk, and the checksum does not match
21:44:09  <SpamCannon> Put poison in the weed...
21:44:41  <SpamCannon> That's the "piece", then?
21:45:06  <Gonoozal_VIII> even the working downloads on kazaa were something else then they were supposed to be most of the time
21:45:23  <Gonoozal_VIII> ea thing again...
21:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: the problem with that is, that especially for large piece sizes, you often have multiple people contributing to the same piece
21:46:39  <SpamCannon> So, in effect, all they're doing is making the downloads longer?
21:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> so one evil person could poison the work of a lot of other "good" peers
21:47:30  *** eJoJ [~ejoj@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:47:32  <Gonoozal_VIII> a good scrambler would generate data with the same checksum that gets seeded again so you only realise the fault once the file is complete
21:47:45  <SpamCannon> Well, yes, and the same could repeat with each and every piece?
21:48:40  <SpamCannon> Does PG2 help against that by not letting the known scramblers connect to your client?
21:54:21  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: yes
21:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is one of the main intents of PG2
21:55:34  <ben_goodger> is this magic program available as a linux/daemon-based proxy?
21:56:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: that exercise i leave to the interested reader.
21:56:38  *** Rexxars [] has joined #openttd
21:56:57  <ben_goodger> very well
21:58:28  *** |Bastiaan| [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
21:59:04  *** Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
22:01:39  <SpamCannon> this is endlessly amusing to me.
22:02:41  *** exe_ [] has left #openttd []
22:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> you rather had him go frenzy?
22:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> imagine the lack of pressure on real killing games like cs and hl...
22:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, this is in no way different from little girls crying because take that split up, or something...
22:15:37  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
22:16:26  <SpamCannon> No, I think he set a good milestone way below to signify "rock bottom loser fuck". I've had my low points pf failure, but I was still way above that sad fucker. Committing suicide over a game after letting it become his life?
22:16:34  <SpamCannon> of
22:22:19  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:25:34  <SpamCannon> Also, did Take That split up *again*?
22:25:47  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> do you really care? :p
22:29:45  <ln-> what's this -- a R0 release of a real movie that is not porn:
22:30:54  <Bjarni> Dune is not porn
22:31:00  <Bjarni> unless you are into worms :P
22:31:57  <Worldbeing> Oo. Dune. Good book.
22:31:58  <Bjarni> then again if you are into worms and you think that size matters then it is the right movie
22:32:01  <ln-> did i claim the opposite?
22:32:07  *** zothar [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
22:32:15  <Bjarni> <Worldbeing> Oo. Dune. Good book. <-- too bad the movie sucks big time
22:32:20  *** Aerandir [] has joined #openttd
22:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: rule 34 says there is duneporn :p
22:32:31  <ln-> it doesn't.
22:32:31  <Bjarni> even according to the people who made it
22:32:38  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: most certainly, but not on that disc.
22:33:02  <Prof_Frink> ln-: ORLY? Tried playing it backwards?
22:33:06  <ln-> Bjarni: what do you expect when you cut a 5-hour movie to 2 hours?
22:33:06  <Bjarni> dune porn... you mean fremen doing it in the sietches?
22:33:48  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: well.... then it's the same movie but backwards and it's not English anymore... it's in Fremen
22:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> if i remember the right movie, the harkonen did not exactly act very prude anyway...
22:35:45  <Bjarni> <--- hehehe
22:36:08  <Bjarni> but tip: don't make a google search for dune
22:36:21  * Bjarni wonders how dune and gay porn is linked in google
22:37:07  <Bjarni> actually I don't want to know
22:37:15  <Worldbeing> Anyone read QC? Quantum Fetish Mechanics: The act of thinking up a new kind of fetish causes that fetish to exist. Someone probably even has a website dedicated to it.
22:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> "DUNE ist eine Schnittstellen-basierte Entwicklungsumgebung zur Implementierung effizienter Finite Elemente oder Finite Volumen Verfahren."
22:37:38  <Worldbeing>
22:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> Worldbeing: that sounds like a direct corollary to rule 34
22:39:04  <Worldbeing> *Googles Rule 34*
22:39:12  <Worldbeing> Yep, sounds like it is.
22:39:16  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: It's Rule 35
22:39:35  <Prof_Frink> Which xkcd proved to be true
22:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause2>   Rule 35
22:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause2>   An addendum of the internet rules stating that if there is no porn of it, it will be made.
22:41:53  *** divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:42:11  <Prof_Frink>
22:42:19  <Worldbeing> I'm impressed. A Dune reference and an xkcd reference in obly 10 mins.
22:42:24  <Worldbeing> *only
22:42:26  <SpamCannon> I only read the book because I was a Dune 2 addict for several years before I became a Comand & Conquer addict.
22:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: yeah, i know that one
22:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> Worldbeing: well, it was bound to happen...
22:43:19  <Prof_Frink> Worldbeing: The internet is a series of tubes held together by xkcd references
22:43:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you knew anything about this channel, you would have expected nothing differently
22:44:01  <Worldbeing> And how would I know anything about this channel? I'm new here.
22:44:20  <Worldbeing> I only came on to ask a little question about OTTD (which I then solved myself).
22:44:44  <Worldbeing> But it's gone up in my estimation with the geeky references.
22:45:03  <Prof_Frink> Worldbeing: IRC *is* a geeky reference
22:45:12  <Worldbeing> Granted.
22:46:30  <Bjarni> Worldbeing: you really thought that this channel is about OpenTTD?
22:46:48  <Worldbeing> So I hoped.
22:46:57  <Worldbeing> Then I started to read...
22:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, there's always
22:47:23  <SpamCannon> What's next? Pedobear parade?
22:47:33  <SmatZ> OpenTTD? what is it?
22:47:41  <SpamCannon> Some game, I think.
22:47:45  <Worldbeing> Oh no! QDB/Bash references!
22:47:46  <Bjarni> yeah
22:48:00  <Bjarni> some weirdos decided to code on it so everybody can play it for free
22:48:12  *** Tlustoch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:48:21  <Bjarni> pedobear.... wtf is that?
22:48:21  <Prof_Frink> Game? Why did nobody tell me!
22:48:48  <SpamCannon> Bjarni, you're better off not knowing.
22:48:51  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: we didn't want to tell the captain anything before the mutiny
22:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> Worldbeing: i still have that above quote in my logs
22:49:14  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: it's mentioned on IRC... I think you are right
22:49:57  <Worldbeing> Impressive.
22:50:10  <Bjarni> surprisingly that quote is in my log as well
22:50:12  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: It could be worse. Dave2 could be in here.
22:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's even context to it ;)
22:50:34  <Bjarni> Dave2?
22:50:36  <SpamCannon> I loled at that quote. Very good.
22:50:36  <Bjarni> wait
22:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i'm quite certain that Bjarni added it to qdb ;)
22:50:42  <Bjarni> I'm better of not knowing
22:51:01  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: why?
22:51:03  <Prof_Frink> it makes more sense when you see Bjarni with the @-flag
22:51:30  <Bjarni> yeah
22:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: because
22:51:38  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: ahh
22:51:55  <Bjarni> now the big question is... did I?
22:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's the internet, when i say something, it must be true
22:52:14  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: only if you agree with me
22:53:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> never...
22:53:57  *** titus_ [] has joined #openttd
22:54:22  <Prof_Frink> It's the internet. The only truths are the Chuck Norris facts.
22:54:35  <Bjarni> <-- this is a classic about coding :)
22:55:15  <SpamCannon> Will Chuck Norris blend?
22:55:38  <glx> <@Bjarni> <-- this is a classic about coding :) <-- where is _luca_ ?
22:55:41  *** titus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: have you even had a glimps at the topic?
22:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: he made his IRC pretty ;)
22:56:11  <Bjarni> glx: he sent me a PM a while ago telling that he might come back but he is really busy
22:56:17  <Bjarni> I think it was last year or something
22:56:41  <glx> he did code some nice things IIRC
22:56:47  <Bjarni> yeah
22:57:02  <SpamCannon> What's a topic?
22:57:09  <Bjarni> <--- hehe... wrong end of the connection to test... I remember that one
22:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: 42.
22:57:22  <SpamCannon> oic
22:57:31  <glx> SpamCannon: the text usually shown on top of the chanel
22:57:52  <SpamCannon> Oh shit.
22:57:58  <SpamCannon> DO I get b& nao?
22:58:08  <Bjarni> maybe
22:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes.
22:58:18  <SpamCannon> Okay.
22:58:26  <Bjarni> but it's likely for writing "b& nao" rather than the link
22:58:46  <SpamCannon> That's fine too.
22:58:47  <Bjarni> because we use English in this channel
22:59:01  * Bjarni warns SpamCannon
22:59:09  <Worldbeing> As a poor innocent and naive newbie, can I ask *why* no YouTube links?
22:59:09  <Prof_Frink> Well, it's based on English.
22:59:10  <Bjarni> consider this an official warning
22:59:12  <SpamCannon> Is that like a ban-lite?
22:59:25  <SpamCannon> I don't do half measures.
22:59:41  <Bjarni> Worldbeing: I don't get that part either :s
23:00:13  <SpamCannon> Rules are rules. They can be nonsensical. They usually are. Getting banned is the fun bit.
23:00:14  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Excise it from t'topic and see what happens
23:00:21  <Bjarni> I already did
23:00:24  <Bjarni> it ended up there again
23:00:38  <Bjarni> I think our topic is cursed or something
23:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i think truebrain added it
23:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> because of bjarni ;)
23:01:53  <Bjarni> <-- an... interesting guide on how to use the metro in Tokyo
23:02:07  *** ludde [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02:18  <SpamCannon> What's UTF-8?
23:02:19  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah so I removed it when he left but somehow it's back even though he still isn't here
23:02:26  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: character encoding
23:02:42  <Bjarni>
23:02:44  <SpamCannon> That sounds too complex to offend against.
23:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> -> if you can read that: ÀöÌ ⅛⅜⅝ <- then you have utf-8
23:03:44  <Bjarni> ばか <-- this is a description of everybody who can't read it
23:03:48  <SpamCannon> The first three letters happen to be vowels in my native language.
23:04:07  <SpamCannon> Moonspeak I don't do.
23:04:09  <Bjarni> but I only wrote two letters :P
23:04:16  <Rubidium> ぀くば゚クスプレス線 <- didn't someone mention this earlier this day?
23:04:16  *** [newbie] [] has joined #openttd
23:04:18  <SpamCannon> Replying to Eddi.
23:04:19  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:04:35  <Bjarni> Rubidium: not while I was here
23:04:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> SpamCannon: this is not about "i can understand them", but more about "they are displayed correctly"
23:04:56  *** [newbie] [] has quit []
23:04:58  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
23:05:37  <glx> Bjarni: I think you did but not using kanji
23:05:57  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: you will not be kicked for not having the faintest idea of what Rubidium just wrote... you will be kicked for complaining that he didn't write anything left of the "<-" though
23:06:08  <Sacro> they keep coming up as sqaures :(
23:06:13  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
23:06:29  <Rubidium> Bjarni: actually... you said it, only in the 'latinized' version of it
23:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: squares are a font issue, not an encoding issue
23:06:48  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes. oi know
23:06:54  <Bjarni> Rubidium: oh
23:06:55  <Bjarni> heh
23:07:09  <Sacro> using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
23:07:21  <Bjarni> hmm
23:07:22  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: not always true, I have no font problem when Gonoozal_VIII sends squares ;)
23:07:25  <Rubidium> Bjarni: remember the Tsukuba Express?
23:07:33  <SpamCannon> Bjarni, will I be kicked for being totally lost on what you just said to me?
23:07:51  <Bjarni> it was yesterday I said "Sacroのばか"
23:07:58  <Bjarni> what did I say today...
23:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: but that is Gonoozal_VIII's encoding problem, not your encoding problem
23:08:30  <SpamCannon> I see the moonspeak.
23:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember the Tuba Express...
23:09:15  <Bjarni> ahh
23:09:21  <Bjarni> now I know what it was about
23:09:30  <Bjarni> catenary voltages :D
23:09:53  <SpamCannon> Use CHatZilla.
23:10:15  <Bjarni> I still wonder how they have DC and AC at the same time
23:10:28  <Bjarni> has to be DC on one part and AC on the other
23:10:36  <Bjarni> not both at the same track
23:10:50  <Bjarni> though that would be possible using 3rd rail
23:11:00  <Bjarni> but then again... 3rd rail and 1500V
23:11:01  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:11:03  <Bjarni> not safe
23:11:08  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:11:33  <glx> I'd say 3rd rail not safe
23:11:41  <SpamCannon> Bjarni, how many warnings do I have left?
23:12:21  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt]
23:12:32  <SpamCannon> Haha, Peer Gynt.
23:13:00  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
23:13:21  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: one less after mentioning Peer Gynt
23:13:32  <Worldbeing> Anyway, t' other reason I came here in the first place: are there really no active multiplayer servers for OTTD, or have I got a connection problem?
23:13:38  <SpamCannon> mikl has left (Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt) What's he gonna get, then?
23:14:32  <SpamCannon> I had the same problem earlier today. Then I closed Peer Guardian 2 and all the servers came up.
23:15:21  <SpamCannon> If it's not that, it's your firewall. Ask the smarter people here.
23:15:42  <ln-> there's a program about private railways in australia running on Travel Channel right now.
23:15:45  <Bjarni> <-- here you can see the chaos when it comes to catenary voltage in Europe
23:16:02  <Bjarni> ln-: wow
23:16:08  <Bjarni> I don't have that channel
23:16:13  <Bjarni> so what do I care?
23:17:12  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: well..... if you fear for your warnings then search google for a warning trainer/cheat/hack.... there are wall hacks out there so why not warning hacks?
23:17:19  <SpamCannon> What's black? No railways?
23:17:33  <Worldbeing> Just no info, I assume.
23:17:42  <Worldbeing> I'm pretty sure Cornwall has railways :D
23:18:00  <Bjarni>  <SpamCannon> What's black? No railways? <-- no catenary
23:18:10  <Bjarni> at least it fits the parts of Denmark without catenary
23:18:27  <Bjarni> aka diesel only traffic
23:18:46  <Prof_Frink> Oo Arr, we don' wan' that elecktrickery 'ere in Cornwall
23:19:28  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you]
23:19:37  <Bjarni> in fact that red area in Denmark really is a red line from Sweden to Germany
23:19:43  <Bjarni> + one more line
23:19:51  <SpamCannon> Bjarni, I'm just entertaining myself. I notice you're a moderator of some measure and you drew attention on yourself. I'm just measuring how full of shit you are. If a ban arrives over such a minute offense, this place is not worth a second visit.
23:20:05  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: And the yellow bit in SE England is 3rd rail, not cat
23:20:10  <Bjarni> then some politicians decided that diesel were better than electric trains
23:20:17  <Bjarni> I still don't get why
23:20:21  <Prof_Frink> That red line'll be the CTRL
23:20:22  <glx> SpamCannon: there are some hidden moderators ;)
23:20:58  <Bjarni> SpamCannon: have you actually seen me kick/ban anybody? :)
23:21:37  *** SpamCannon_ [] has joined #openttd
23:21:45  <SpamCannon_> I know a portion of rail between where I am and the airport that I use is non-electrified.
23:21:48  <Bjarni> I can do it if it suits me but then again there should be a valid reason for doing so
23:21:55  <Bjarni> mentioning Peer Gynt isn't XD
23:22:11  <Bjarni> however
23:22:20  <Bjarni> SpamCannon_: don't leave while we talk to you
23:22:27  * Sacro is now playing: Griegg - Peer Gynt Suite No. 1
23:22:37  * Bjarni slaps Sacro
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23:22:44  <Bjarni> no moronic scripts
23:22:59  * glx thinks he typed it ;)
23:23:13  <Bjarni> should that make it better?
23:23:22  <glx> worse indeed :)
23:23:24  <Prof_Frink> Amarok: Dire Straits - Love over gold
23:23:28  <SpamCannon_> It's okay when you can hop on a bright green caterpillar-like diesel train from my station and take it straight to the airport/back, but once I had to come back so late in the evening, no long-distance diesels moved. Got to switch from an electric train to a diesel train and then to an electric train again.
23:24:10  <Bjarni> I was once delayed 4 hours and then no trains were driving at all when the plane finally landed
23:24:22  <Bjarni> that was a £100 taxi ride :(
23:24:31  <SpamCannon_> My connection decided to chop for a second.
23:24:43  <SpamCannon_> What'd I miss?
23:24:54  <Bjarni> I was told later that I should have sent the bill to the airline... I didn't think of that at 2:30
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23:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> <SpamCannon_> It's okay when you can hop on a bright green caterpillar-like diesel train from my station and take it straight to the airport/back, but once I had to come back so late in the evening, no long-distance diesels moved. Got to switch from an electric train to a diesel train and then to an electric train again. <- i have not seen diesel long-distance in a long time
23:28:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> but then... i live in an area where some tracks got electrified 3 times ;)
23:28:59  <toet> long distance/long trains here are mostly diesel
23:29:49  <Bjarni> hmm... according to those numbers Europe should have 32'264 km of tracks with 15 kV and 16 2/3 Hz while there are 32'392 km worldwide.... wtf is that for a country outside Europe that has 128 km of tracks using this odd frequency?
23:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i only know one main line that has not been electrified
23:30:08  <Bjarni> it's not listed in the wikipedia list of catenary voltages
23:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> and they finally made plans to electrify it
23:30:42  <Bjarni> here it's like the railroad itself is trying not to get catenary
23:31:00  <Bjarni> I mean for some reason they had a whole lot of catenary falling down this summer
23:31:30  <Bjarni> some questioned the maintenance but I don't know if that is the real reason
23:31:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> the last line that i remember being electrified was the track from Stralsund over the RÃŒgendamm to Saßnitz
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23:32:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> that was around the 1990's
23:32:10  <toet> everyone should be glad you have no NS managing the trains in ur country x/
23:32:17  <Bjarni> I do know that the Swedish school class who were on a one day trip to Copenhagen will remember it... 2 or 3 of them actually got hit by falling catenary o_O
23:32:45  <Bjarni> they didn't get an electrical shock though so I presume that the security system kicked in and disconnected the wire
23:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: i hope it was unpowered...
23:32:56  <Bjarni> otherwise it would have been 25 kV
23:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not a cool thing to have...
23:33:34  <Bjarni> it was powered before it fell down
23:33:59  <Bjarni> then the railroad said "it's the first time ever anybody got hit by falling catenary"
23:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, then it comes down to wether it hits something metallic before it hits the people
23:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> all metallic objects in reach of the catenary have to be grounded
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23:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> and short-cut to the security system
23:34:54  <Bjarni> you can't be sure that catenary will stay unpowered even if the power is off
23:35:25  <Bjarni> the magnetic field generated by 25 kV 50 Hz means that one wire can charge the wire in the track next to it
23:35:30  <Bjarni> in worst case
23:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, normally, there should not be anyone on the tracks to be hit by catenary
23:35:47  <Bjarni> so in theory a wire is powered even when the power is cut
23:36:08  <Bjarni> unless somebody physically connects it to the ground (the tracks)
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23:36:38  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, normally, there should not be anyone on the tracks to be hit by catenary <-- yeah... but those people were on the platform.... meaning that the catenary fell down to the side, not strait down
23:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's an odd incident anyway...
23:37:09  <Bjarni> yeah
23:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd sue the rail company senseless...
23:38:08  <Bjarni> hehe
23:38:13  <Bjarni> good luck
23:38:18  <Bjarni> you will need it
23:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you could certainly plead on "grobe fahrlÀssigkeit" if that happened in germany
23:40:11  <SpamCannon_> The what?
23:40:13  <Bjarni> you might be able to get something from the railroad here
23:40:35  <Bjarni> but I think you will have to hope that they will try to save their public image
23:41:07  <Bjarni> heh... the schematics of the headlights is outdated... the left track and shunting headlights aren't in use anymore
23:41:14  <Bjarni> removed from the rules 2 years ago
23:41:58  <Bjarni> now we are supposed to just use the normal headlights in both ends... but dimmed
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23:42:42  <Bjarni> like we dim them during the night on a station where the locomotive could be the only source of light on the switches :P
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23:43:53  <SpamCannon_> So, wait, you guys actually work on the trains/rails or something?
23:44:04  <SpamCannon_> I'm just a fan of the game.
23:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever "you guys" is
23:44:38  <Bjarni> I guess that depends on who "you guys" are
23:44:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm just a random nerd who is paralyzed whenever he sees two random parallel lines
23:44:43  <SpamCannon_> Any number of people present who appear to be railroad connoisseurs.
23:45:34  <Bjarni> well... I do drive once in a while but it's vintage operation
23:45:47  <SpamCannon_> Such as Bjarni, who refers to local train happening with "we this and we that".
23:46:00  <SpamCannon_> Drive? Like a train pilot?
23:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> "we" as in "my country
23:46:05  <SpamCannon_> In a train cockpit?
23:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> 's railway company"
23:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> we are not schitzophrenic
23:46:35  <Bjarni> and... we don't own any line so we have to rent space of commercial lines whenever we drive meaning that we need the same security standard as commercial lines including the educational part
23:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> and this girl is NOT smarter than a 5th grader:
23:47:55  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> "we" as in "my country <-- yeah... something like that
23:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: this was a typical "hit enter instead of '" susage finger case
23:48:42  <Bjarni> welll
23:48:44  <Bjarni> yeah
23:48:55  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause2> "we" as in "my country's railway company" <-- yeah... something like that
23:48:58  <Bjarni> better?
23:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes ;)
23:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i should go to bed, because i need to get up early...
23:49:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that's a round trip to my earlier statement...
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23:50:31  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: nice link
23:50:45  <Bjarni> I just have one question after seeing it
23:51:04  <Bjarni> is the country "Hungry" next to "Turkey" and what does the border look like?
23:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> they have Rum-Maniacs inbetween i believe
23:52:16  <Bjarni> lol
23:52:18  <Bjarni> good one
23:52:55  <SmatZ> :-D
23:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i could have made a dracula reference instead ;)
23:53:33  <Bjarni> that wouldn't be as good
23:54:13  <SpamCannon_> I loled at that.
23:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i find more disturbing is that this girl is supposed to be a celebrity...
23:55:23  <Bjarni> I clicked on another smarter than a 5th grader link and a guy stalls on "2*5"
23:55:27  <Bjarni> wtf
23:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i mean... i could forgive anyone not knowing the associacion between random countries and capitals, but what she is babbling inbetween...
23:56:53  <Bjarni> yeah
23:56:55  <Bjarni> same here
23:57:33  <SpamCannon_> I like George Clooney. And Samuel L. Jackson. The bimbos don't do anything for me. When will someone shut that fucking bitch Natasha Bedingfield up? Every time I listen to her moan in some new song, I develop cancerous brain cells.
23:57:55  <Bjarni> until recently I had a bit of a problem placing all the capitals east of the Iron Curtain (it appears that we mainly did with the western part of the world in school except for DDR)
23:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd definitely ban someone for such a sentence...
23:58:16  <Bjarni> but I did manage to learn after the Iron Curtain went away
23:58:26  <SpamCannon_> Bjarni, place Tallinn.
23:58:34  <Bjarni> Estonia
23:58:38  <SpamCannon_> Good shot.
23:58:54  <Bjarni> I said I know now ;)
23:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> was a 1 in 3 chance ;)
23:59:00  <Bjarni> not really
23:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, for me it would be
23:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least on the first though
23:59:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> t
23:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> i could probably derive it given enough time
23:59:37  <ln-> Bjarni: place Kaunas.
23:59:40  <Bjarni> Tallinn is fairly close to Finland so it has to be Estonia because Estonia is closest to Finland
23:59:49  <SpamCannon_> Place Sarajevo.

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