Log for #openttd on 6th December 2007:
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00:00:12  <Bjarni> at least I hope you have an idea of what I just said ;)
00:00:32  <Gonozal_VIII> i have :P
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00:05:21  <glx> ℕ, â„€, ... indeed
00:05:31  <Bjarni> heh
00:05:35  <Bjarni> didn't bother with unicode
00:05:46  <Bjarni> but yes that's how they are written
00:05:50  <Gonozal_VIII> ...
00:05:59  <Bjarni> ...?
00:06:03  <glx> and Gonozal_VIII can't see them :)
00:06:14  <Bjarni> that calls for a kick
00:06:27  <Bjarni> look at the topic
00:06:54  <glx> I even have ㏀, ㏁, ... in the font
00:07:04  <Gonozal_VIII> everybody wants to kick me :-(
00:07:35  <Gonozal_VIII> ¯_¯_
00:07:37  <Bjarni> the channel rules says that it's not allowed to complain that you can't see the unicode chars somebody else writes in here
00:07:39  <Gonozal_VIII> i have stuff like that
00:08:11  <Bjarni> ensure that you use a good font and UTF-8
00:08:14  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: was kiloohms and megaohms
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00:08:47  <glx> arial unicode contains a lot of nice stuff :)
00:09:06  <Gonozal_VIII> it was upper half block and lower half block...
00:09:23  <Bjarni> hmm
00:09:50  <Bjarni> I never actually selected a font... I opened Xchat for the first time and it looked nice with whatever it picked for me so I never changed it
00:10:02  <Bjarni> and it appears like it contains more or less all chars
00:10:09  <Bjarni> I have yet to find missing chars in it
00:10:20  <Gonozal_VIII> did you see the blocks?
00:10:32  <Bjarni> are the blocks UTF-8?
00:10:39  <Gonozal_VIII> pfffff
00:11:04  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> ¯_¯_ <-- you mean this?
00:11:40  <Gonozal_VIII> that's A with ^ and some lines...
00:11:41  <glx> [01:07:36] <Gonozal_VIII> ¯_¯_ <-- that's what I see
00:11:56  <Bjarni> I see the same as glx
00:11:59  <Bjarni> I think
00:12:18  <Bjarni> 4 lines
00:12:23  <Bjarni> two upper and two lower
00:12:38  <Gonozal_VIII> shouldn' be lines but blocks
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00:12:45  <glx> I see square_square_
00:12:46  <Bjarni> looks like a square clock signal
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00:12:57  <Gonozal_VIII> arial unicode u 2580
00:13:31  <Gonozal_VIII> and u 2584
00:14:17  <Bjarni> ▀▄
00:14:34  <glx> ▀▄
00:14:35  <Bjarni> that's two boxes on my screen
00:14:42  <glx> I have them too :)
00:14:43  <Bjarni> using the two numbers you just siad
00:14:47  <Bjarni> *said
00:15:27  <Gonozal_VIII> you could make a checkboard with the, yay :-)
00:15:33  <Gonozal_VIII> m
00:15:42  <Bjarni> 挂 <-- looks like the unicode palette finds this char related to u 2584
00:15:50  <Bjarni> it's u 6302
00:15:58  <Bjarni> I fail to see how they are related though
00:16:20  <Gonozal_VIII> i see ae CE
00:16:44  <Bjarni> maybe this char means box in Chinese or something
00:16:45  <Gonozal_VIII> OE
00:17:13  <Bjarni> it's two against one
00:17:23  <ln-> ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
00:17:23  <ln-> ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
00:17:23  <ln-> ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
00:17:23  <ln-> ▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
00:17:26  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: please fix your font/encoding
00:17:35  <Gonozal_VIII> can't
00:17:38  <Bjarni> ln-: good one :)
00:17:56  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: then stop complaining about it because it's obviously you who is not following the standard.
00:17:56  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIIIのばか
00:18:35  <glx> ╔═╗
00:18:35  <glx> ╚═╝
00:19:00  <Bjarni> this reminds me of C64
00:19:14  <Bjarni> you could make such chars on that one as well
00:19:15  <glx> I used this a lot on ZX81
00:19:28  <glx> there were keys for that
00:19:28  <Bjarni> never used ZX81
00:19:38  <Bjarni> but I used it on my C64
00:19:44  <Bjarni> it had keys for it
00:20:07  <Bjarni> well.. it was the normal char keys, but if I held down a function key then it drew chars like that
00:20:15  <glx> it was doable on CPC6128 but not as easy
00:20:18  <Sacro> ln-: wtf
00:20:32  <Bjarni> each key had a letter in upper and lower case and then two special chars
00:20:35  <ln-> Sacro: elaborate
00:20:40  <Sacro> how do you find a perpendicular vector
00:20:44  <Bjarni> a bit messy on the print since each key had 3 icons
00:20:48  <Sacro> i have 4,2
00:21:25  <ln-> the dot product
00:22:09  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm in my software engineering lecture yesterday the professor said he thinks eiffel is the best oo language available... that true?
00:22:35  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: do you think he would have lied to you about what he thinks?
00:22:39  <glx> eiffel is a lisp language
00:22:40  <Sacro> ln-: oh?
00:22:44  <glx> IIRC
00:23:27  <glx> smalltalk is the most OO :)
00:23:34  <glx> everything is object
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00:24:12  <Gonozal_VIII> yes we also talked about that but it wasn't about most oo
00:27:35  <Gonozal_VIII> i found the pdf :-)
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00:31:15  <Gonozal_VIII>
00:32:27  <Gonozal_VIII> he also added c# during the lecture...
00:35:08  <Gonozal_VIII> eiffel really that good?
00:35:23  <Gonozal_VIII> then why is it not used more?
00:36:04  <Bjarni> I wonder about obj C
00:36:26  <Gonozal_VIII> he said that obj c is used again
00:36:32  <Bjarni> if it's that old and not used in newer stuff then why did Apple code OSX in it?
00:36:49  <glx> and why OTTD use it too ;)
00:36:54  <Bjarni> we have obj C in OpenTTD
00:37:07  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that's c++
00:37:09  <Bjarni> as a gateway to the system stuff
00:37:24  <Bjarni> the game itself is written in C++
00:37:25  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: check .mm files
00:37:38  <Bjarni> the .mm files are obj C
00:37:46  <glx> there were .m files in C times
00:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> obj C++ i thought
00:38:01  <Bjarni> technically it's obj C++ because they are prepared to be linked to cpp files instead of c files
00:38:16  <Bjarni> but none of the content really changed
00:38:25  <Gonozal_VIII> obj c++ :S c++ is oo without obj in front...
00:38:27  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: I'm currently watching the SP episode with the gnomes :)
00:38:36  <Bjarni> I think we can revert them back to .m and if the headers were correct then they would still work
00:38:56  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: obj-C++ is not the same as C+++
00:38:58  <ln-> -+
00:39:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's one of the few i actually watched...
00:39:19  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> obj c++ :S c++ is oo without obj in front... <-- obj C and C++ use different types of objects. obj C++ can handle both
00:39:32  <Gonozal_VIII> you can watch them all at southparkzone :-)
00:39:41  <Bjarni> and it's used as a bridge between our C++ code and Apple's frameworks in obj C
00:40:12  <Bjarni> anyway
00:40:14  <Bjarni> time for bed
00:40:19  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:40:23  <Gonozal_VIII> bed is a good idea...
00:40:27  <Gonozal_VIII> good night
00:40:28  <Bjarni> hey
00:40:37  <Bjarni> you guys aren't allowed to go to MY bed
00:40:46  <Bjarni> so don't steal my idea >_<
00:40:47  <ln-> sacro is already there
00:40:51  <glx> lol
00:40:51  <Bjarni> ...
00:40:58  <Gonozal_VIII> im in ur bed stealin ur sleep
00:40:59  * Sacro warms it up
00:41:49  * Bjarni burns his bed
00:41:58  <Bjarni> it was infested :(
00:42:51  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> im in ur bed stealin ur sleep <-- I wouldn't mind not having to sleep right now
00:43:12  <Bjarni> but that's my wishful thinking
00:43:16  <Bjarni> my brain wants to sleep
00:43:22  <Bjarni> so I'm out of here
00:43:39  * Bjarni picks up a gun in case the Sacro story turns out to be true
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00:43:47  * Sacro sighs
00:44:13  <Sacro> @calc 16+9
00:44:16  <DorpsGek> Sacro: 25
00:44:18  <Sacro> ah yes
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00:45:03  <Gonozal_VIII> why did you calculate 16+9?
00:45:26  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: well
00:45:29  <Sacro> i have a triangle
00:45:38  <Sacro> sides 4 and 2
00:45:40  <Sacro> and i needed the other
00:45:43  <Sacro> that's not right
00:45:53  <glx> is it rectangle?
00:45:58  <Sacro> cock ><
00:46:05  <Sacro> i wanted 16+4 :(
00:46:25  <glx> sqrt(20)
00:46:26  <Gonozal_VIII> could be anything if it's not a special triangle
00:46:33  <Sacro> @calc sqrt(20)
00:46:34  <DorpsGek> Sacro: 4.472135955
00:46:56  <glx> = 2 * sqrt(5)
00:47:37  <glx> @calc 2 * sqrt(5)
00:47:37  <DorpsGek> glx: 4.472135955
00:47:47  <glx> yeah my math still work :)
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00:49:12  <Sacro> 2 root 5?
00:49:13  <Sacro> :\
00:49:28  <Gonozal_VIII> partial root
00:50:11  <Gonozal_VIII> 20 = 4*5 so sqrt(20) is sqrt(4) * sqrt(5) :-)
00:50:18  <Sacro> oh yes
00:50:24  <Sacro> my surd knowledge just went out the window
00:50:24  <glx> anyway a²+b²=c² is valid for rectangle one only
00:50:44  <Gonozal_VIII> [01:46:25] Gonozal_VIII: could be anything if it's not a special triangle
00:51:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need 3 values to describe a triangle
00:51:19  <glx> for others you should use sin, cos or tan
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00:51:47  <ThePizzaKing> But those are whacked out formulas that I never remember
00:51:56  <ThePizzaKing> I just make them up and hope they work
00:52:12  <Sacro> i need moar help :(
00:52:18  <Sacro> i have p^
00:52:22  <Sacro> and a point
00:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> they are easy to remember
00:52:39  <ThePizzaKing> Something like, sin(a)/A = sin(b)/B = sin(c)/C
00:53:05  <glx> phase 1: collect underpants
00:53:05  <glx> phase 2: ?
00:53:05  <glx> phase 3: profits
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01:14:45  <Sacro> -2 over sqrt{20} times 2
01:14:54  <Sacro> would that equal -4 over sqrt{20}?
01:15:29  <Gonozal_VIII> naaah
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01:16:32  <Sacro> hmm, so 8 over sqrt{20}
01:16:51  <Sacro> thats 8 over 5sqrt{2}?
01:17:07  <Sacro> no 8 over 2sqrt{5}
01:17:23  <Gonozal_VIII> mhm
01:18:02  <Sacro> hmm
01:18:06  <Sacro> 8 over 2root5
01:18:14  <Sacro> would that be 4 over root5?
01:18:14  <ThePizzaKing> yes
01:18:25  <ThePizzaKing> yes
01:18:28  <ThePizzaKing> that's right
01:19:00  <Gonozal_VIII> ...
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01:19:20  <Sacro> holy crap thats complex
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01:19:47  <Gonozal_VIII> try it with @calc...
01:20:10  <Sacro> yeah... cos that'll work :p
01:20:26  <Sacro> wtf is a parametric equation ><
01:20:46  <ThePizzaKing> I knew what that was 4 months ago
01:20:51  <ThePizzaKing> Not now
01:20:55  <ThePizzaKing> Wikipedia!
01:21:52  <ThePizzaKing> ah, an equation which has a parameter in, of course
01:22:09  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
01:23:29  <Sacro> grr
01:23:38  <Sacro> damn tutor shoves all his powerpoint stuff into a PDF
01:23:43  <Sacro> which totally screws up the animations
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01:25:57  <oh> does vehicle replacement cause desync in 0.6b or is it just me?
01:26:38  <Sacro> can't just be you
01:26:42  <Sacro> it takes 2 to desync
01:26:44  <Gonozal_VIII> only sometimes with the manual replace in the depot
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01:27:15  <oh> been one long desync fest on all servers I've been to lately
01:27:36  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe your pc is too slow to keep up
01:27:39  <oh> nigh on every time I use autoreplace I get booted :<
01:27:45  <oh> and no ;P
01:28:09  <Sacro> should you use ( ) or [ ] for vectors?
01:28:13  <Sacro> +column
01:29:30  <Sacro> oh hell
01:29:35  <Sacro> WE'VE GONE TO 3 DIMENSIONS D:
01:30:07  <ThePizzaKing> That's always fun
01:30:10  <Gonozal_VIII> myths! that many dimensions can't possibly exist!
01:30:28  <ThePizzaKing> My lecurer sometimes uses () and other times uses []
01:31:00  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: i agree...
01:31:11  <Sacro> and the 2 ronnies is making me laugh too much
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01:38:09  * Sacro cries
01:39:03  <Sacro> cross product of 3 dimensional vectors :(
01:42:40  <ThePizzaKing> Isn't that the determinant of the matrix with the vectors (x,y,z) and the two being crossed as the rows
01:43:58  <Sacro> yeah
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02:15:29  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: any idea on how to mulitply matrixes?
02:15:44  <ln-> how about matrices
02:16:22  <Sacro> :p
02:16:26  <Sacro> same difference
02:17:22  <ln-> just take the first from both, multiply them, add, take second ones, multiply, add, write result, and so on.
02:18:11  <Sacro> isn't that the dot product?
02:19:14  <ThePizzaKing> you go accross on the first one and down on the second
02:19:28  <ThePizzaKing> it's sort of hard to explain
02:20:09  <ThePizzaKing> like the dot product of the top row in the first one and the first column in the second to get the first number
02:20:39  <Sacro> :\
02:23:25  <Sacro> i don't get this
02:23:31  <Sacro> i've found a website that will tell me the answer
02:23:35  <Sacro> but now how to calculate it
02:24:09  <ThePizzaKing> Like [a b]\n[c d] multiplied by [e f]\n[g h] is [(a*e + b*g) (a*f + b*h)]\n[(c*e + d*g) (c*f + d*h)]
02:25:03  <Sacro> :\
02:25:36  <ThePizzaKing> I don't know how well wikipedia explains it:
02:26:38  <Sacro> nope, that's way over my head
02:26:41  <Sacro> at 2:30 am
02:27:08  <Sacro> oooooooooh
02:27:13  <Sacro> you put one above and one to the side
02:27:16  <Sacro> and then filter inwards
02:28:48  * AntB was lost at matrices
02:32:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11578 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
02:32:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Introduce the window default flag WDF_TEXTENTRY which specifies that the window holding it is actually one that enables an edit box.
02:32:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Use this flag when dispatching a key event instead of using some hard coded window IDs.
02:32:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This should ease a little bit the creation of new edit aware windows.
02:39:48  <ThePizzaKing> Sacro: Here's the page I had on it for University:
02:40:27  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: yeah, that's similar to what we where shown
02:40:31  <Sacro> but i prefer the wikipedia way
02:40:33  <Sacro> and drawing it all out
02:40:56  <Sacro> right, how to solve linear equations using matrix methods
02:41:21  <ThePizzaKing> that's fun
02:41:29  <Sacro> any clues?
02:41:34  <Sacro> i'm sure he hasn't taught this one
02:42:18  <ThePizzaKing> you put the equations as rows in the matrix
02:42:37  <ThePizzaKing> so 2x + 3y - 7z = 2 becomes [2 3 7 2]
02:42:46  <ln-> just write down the coefficients in the matrix, do some operations, profit.
02:43:03  <ThePizzaKing> that's pretty much it
02:43:15  <Sacro> operations?
02:43:27  <ThePizzaKing> Like add one row to another
02:43:41  <ln-> or add one row to another and multiply
02:44:29  <Sacro> :\
02:44:45  <Sacro> so i have 2 , 1, 2 \n 4, 5, 5
02:44:50  <ThePizzaKing> And you want all leading numbers to have zeros below them at the ned
02:45:04  <ThePizzaKing> so you take 2* row 1 from row 2
02:45:22  <ThePizzaKing> 2, 1, 2 \n 0, 3, 1
02:45:52  <Sacro> :\
02:45:54  <Sacro> how'd you get that?
02:46:17  <ThePizzaKing> you multiply the first row by 2, and then subtract it from the second row
02:46:43  <Sacro> that's just a normal simultaneous equation
02:46:47  <Sacro> nothing special
02:47:15  <ThePizzaKing> yeah, that's pretty much all it is
02:49:01  <Sacro> so i have 4 2 4
02:49:04  <Sacro> then err
02:49:19  <Sacro> 4 5 5 minus 4 2 4 gives 0 3 1?
02:49:32  <ThePizzaKing> yeah
02:50:34  <Sacro> so that means that y = 3?
02:50:38  <Sacro> or 1/3
02:50:41  <ThePizzaKing> 1/3
02:50:42  <Sacro> 3y =1
02:51:10  <ThePizzaKing> and then you sub that into the first row
02:51:23  <ThePizzaKing> 2x + y = 2
02:52:55  <Sacro> yeah
02:53:03  <Sacro> do i shove in the 0 3 1?
02:53:28  <Sacro> 4 2 4 * 3 = 12 6 12
02:53:37  <Sacro> 0 3 1 * 4 = 0 12 4
02:53:43  <Sacro> hmm, that's not right
02:53:58  <Sacro> 0 3 1 * 2 = 0 6 2
02:54:01  <ThePizzaKing> no, just put in the y = 1/3 into the 2x + y = 2
02:54:03  <Sacro> then 12 0 10 ?
02:54:19  <Sacro> but that's not a matrix method is it?
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02:54:34  <Sacro> oops, think the bot is confused
02:55:25  <ThePizzaKing> I think you only use matrices until you get to the first number, or there abouts
02:55:37  <ThePizzaKing> but you can go back up if you want
02:56:44  <ThePizzaKing> so the 12 6 12 - 0 6 2 thing would work then
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02:57:14  <ThePizzaKing> anyway, I've got to go now
02:57:17  <ThePizzaKing> good luck Sacro
02:57:21  <Sacro> thanks ThePizzaKing :)
02:57:31  <Sacro> won't you stay another couple of mins and check my answers?
03:01:14  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: you still there?
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03:13:16  <ln-> isn't it quite trivial to check whether you got the correct answers for the equations?
03:13:26  <Sacro> ln-: like how?
03:13:30  <Sacro> no, i meant on the whole lot
03:14:48  <Sacro> for the questions
03:14:55  <Sacro> for my answers
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03:20:52  <ln-> isn't it quite confusing to use × as the multiplication sign here...
03:21:01  <Sacro> it looks different
03:21:11  <Sacro> unless i've put x instead of times
03:21:12  <ln-> when you're operating with vectors, and you don't mean the cross product.
03:21:14  <Sacro> which does happen
03:21:25  <Sacro> where abouts?
03:21:30  <Sacro> cos afaik i do mean the cross product
03:22:22  <ln-> in the answer for Q1 (1) 3a you don't mean the cross product as far as i understand.
03:22:40  <Sacro> yes, true
03:22:47  <Sacro> but i think that is the only one
03:23:47  <ln-> also the next one, a·b
03:23:53  <ThePizzaKing> back
03:23:58  <Sacro> yeah?
03:27:13  <Sacro> any more comments?
03:29:24  <ln-> wtf is a cross-product of two matrices?
03:29:42  <Sacro> question 4?
03:30:01  <ln-> yeah.
03:30:15  <Sacro> i dunno :\
03:30:18  <Sacro> but that one is right
03:30:55  <ln-> i would have got -6 and 16 on the bottom row
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03:33:14  <ln-> again, in (2) of 4, you certainly are not using the cross-product but ordinary multiplication (as is correct here).
03:33:26  <Sacro> yeah
03:35:03  <ln-> but this (1) of 4, are you saying it is not supposed to be about normal matrix multiplication?
03:35:17  <Sacro> err...
03:35:23  <Sacro> that is right
03:35:24  <Sacro> i think
03:37:21  <ln-> what does the resulting matrix represent?
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03:37:55  <Sacro> no idea :\
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03:40:14  <Sacro> ln-: what do you reckon?
03:40:45  <ln-> at least i have never heard of a cross product of matrices.
03:41:18  <ln-> while the cross product for vectors represents the vector that is perpendicular to both the parameter vectors.
03:41:57  <ln-> and that exercise so much looks like a normal matrix multiplication exercise.
03:42:03  <Sacro> it's just a "suppose"
03:42:06  <Sacro> so ...
03:42:08  <Sacro> i did it wrong?
03:42:20  <Sacro> no, that is matrix multiplicaion
03:43:46  <ln-> in my opinion the answer would be (19 -24)\n(-6 16)
03:44:14  <ln-> and it could be counted with zero intermediate steps on paper..
03:44:48  <ln-> but then, i'm not the math genius here.
03:44:57  <Sacro> yeah
03:44:58  <Sacro> o
03:45:00  <Sacro> you're right
03:45:12  <Sacro> h,,
03:45:13  <Sacro> hmm
03:45:16  <Sacro> -6, -16?
03:46:01  <ln-> yes, true, -16.
03:46:24  <Sacro>*B
03:46:28  <Sacro> seems to confirm it
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03:47:57  <AntB> ah crap, forgot my company password on a server :(
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03:49:22  <Sacro> ln-: any other complains?
03:50:31  <ln-> your syntax in (2) of 4 is really odd, but if you were taught that way, then...
03:51:01  <Sacro> taught...?
03:51:05  <Sacro> no i'm just winging it
03:52:01  <ln-> you don't really have any matrices in that, and you are supposed to be operating with matrices all the time.
03:52:17  <Sacro> mmm
03:53:07  <ThePizzaKing> If I could work out matrices in Math I'd show you how I'd set it out
03:53:39  <ln-> imho, you should be beginning with the matrix: (2 1 2)\n(4 5 5)
03:54:22  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: left [ matrix{1 # -2 ## 3 # ~1}  right ]
03:54:23  <ln-> then marking which line you add to which, with what factor, and then write the matrix again with the appropriate line changed.
03:54:38  <Sacro> ln-: yeah, i'll do that in the morrow
03:54:41  <Sacro> before i print it and hand it in
03:54:43  <ThePizzaKing> cool
03:55:15  <ln-> i think i'll go integrate my bed over [t0, t0+10h)
03:56:58  <Sacro> but do all my answers look good?
04:05:35  <ThePizzaKing> I would have set it out like this:
04:06:00  <ThePizzaKing> Maybe with a few more notes on the side as to what I was doing
04:06:41  <ThePizzaKing> I might not have done the last matrix step either, and just subed in the value for y
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04:13:36  <Sacro> yeah
04:13:42  <Sacro> i'll maybe modify it in the morning
04:13:47  <Sacro> but tis like 4:15 am now :(
04:13:51  <Sacro> and some twat is beeping his horn
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07:32:31  <sport606> does anyone know how to get vehicles to carry gravel or clay?
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10:23:15  <TheJosh> hey everyone, how is everyone going?
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10:33:20  <SpComb> yawningishly
10:34:19  <Gonozal_VIII> sqlishly
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11:04:20  <TheJosh> hey is there a good graphical GRF editor, or is it all hex and hacking
11:04:39  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
11:05:24  <TheJosh> better question, if I made such an editor, would it be a good idea or a bad idea?
11:05:37  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm hacking around with notepad and gimp
11:06:29  <Gonozal_VIII> good idea :-) but i dunno if there already is something
11:06:39  <TheJosh> so a graphical editor that u selected gimpped files with, and could set all the params and stuff with easy would be appreciated?
11:07:36  <Gonozal_VIII> syntax detection for the actions :D
11:07:52  <TheJosh> is the GRF format complicated?
11:08:01  <Gonozal_VIII> very
11:08:11  <TheJosh> do you have a tool that puts it all together or do you hack together the .grf files yourself?
11:08:49  <Gonozal_VIII> i just started some days ago to work with grf stuff so i don't know how it's done best
11:09:22  <Gonozal_VIII> but there are lots and lots of actions...
11:09:54  <TheJosh> gut lots of actions can easily be handled by a generic interface
11:10:04  <TheJosh> especially if coded right
11:10:22  <Gonozal_VIII> do you have a tool that puts it all together or do you hack together the .grf files yourself? <-- you mean the encoding?
11:11:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i have a .bat file with the lines in it, i only edit the grf name there and don't have to type :-)
11:12:49  <Gonozal_VIII> cd C:\grfcodec
11:12:49  <Gonozal_VIII> grfcodec -e blah.grf
11:12:49  <Gonozal_VIII> pause
11:12:51  <Gonozal_VIII> like that
11:14:07  <TheJosh> whats grfcodec?
11:14:59  <Gonozal_VIII> the thing that makes the grfs...
11:15:34  <TheJosh> from files you make in notepad
11:15:51  <TheJosh> and the gimp
11:15:53  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
11:16:17  <TheJosh> so what about a tool that combines grfcodec (or in the background uses grfcodec) and the notepad step?
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11:18:24  <Gonozal_VIII> i think there is something but i don't know how it's called and it required the ttdpatch exe or something like that
11:18:41  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- not the best guy to ask^^
11:29:27  <TheJosh> thanks anywya
11:36:44  <divo> !topic
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11:44:38  <Gonozal_VIII> what's .uif?
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11:48:04  <Gonozal_VIII> googled it..
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12:13:23  <xintron> Can anyone send me the ttd game?
12:13:46  <Gonozal_VIII> ebay
12:14:28  <xintron> lol
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12:23:30  <valhallasw> xintron: transport tycoon deluxe is copyrighted software
12:23:43  <xintron> yeah, so I know
12:23:51  <SpComb>
12:23:56  <xintron> But that doesn't mean that I can't reach it on the net :)
12:24:02  <SpComb> hmm, almost
12:24:09  <valhallasw> correct
12:24:20  <valhallasw> the question is whether this is the right place to ask ;)
12:24:34  <SpComb> which is why I'll skip linking to the correct domain
12:24:36  <xintron> Shouldn't it be the right place? :)
12:24:37  <valhallasw> contains a post with links... somewhere
12:24:53  <xintron> But I got a link already so no need for it anymore :)
12:25:04  <xintron> Just didn't want to find a torrent for it
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12:25:23  <xintron> Since I don't have a torrent program in school :P
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12:29:10  <xintron> Is here anyone who know who translated the game into Esperanto?
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13:07:23  <skidd13> Hi
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13:25:22  <Rubidium> xintron: yes, there is someone who know who did the Esperanto translation
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13:34:00  <svippery> Hm...
13:34:02  <svippery> This is odd.
13:34:16  <svippery> I get newest revision from SVN, and yet somehow NewGRF does not seem to work.
13:34:29  <svippery> Did something change while I was gone for the past few months?
13:34:44  <glx> how did you add them?
13:34:50  <svippery> In the bin/data/ directory.
13:35:01  <svippery> But when I launch openttd, it cannot find them.
13:35:01  <Gonozal_VIII> month? tons of changes since then
13:35:09  <svippery> Yes yes, I know, Gonozal_VIII.
13:35:17  <svippery> But on user-end side.
13:35:34  <svippery> And also, is it not spelt "tonnes"?
13:35:49  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i can't speak english
13:35:52  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
13:35:55  <svippery> :P
13:36:31  <Gonozal_VIII> clicked on rescan files if you put them there after launching the game?
13:37:08  <svippery> Yep.
13:37:13  <svippery> Nothing happens.
13:37:37  <Gonozal_VIII> waitaminute... bin/data?
13:37:44  <Gonozal_VIII> gamedir/data :-)
13:37:56  <svippery> Which is bin/data/
13:38:12  <glx> OS?
13:38:16  <svippery> Linux.
13:38:30  <glx> just put them in ~/.openttd/data
13:38:39  <skidd13> svippery: Which GRF ID?
13:38:57  <svippery> Maybe the files I have are old.
13:39:00  <svippery> :(
13:39:16  <Gonozal_VIII> you should see them anyways
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13:40:37  <Gonozal_VIII> the data dir is in the same dir as the exe and the grfs are in there and you clicked newgrf settings from the game start screen and there add?
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13:41:00  <svippery> And they do not appear.
13:41:05  <svippery> Even after I did what glx suggested.
13:41:18  <Gonozal_VIII> that's odd
13:41:40  <glx> then you have a rights problem
13:41:55  <glx> try openttd -d misc4
13:42:04  <glx> to see search path
13:42:32  <Gonozal_VIII> exe.. linux... blah
13:42:46  <svippery> Hm, could I grep for it, glx?
13:43:08  <glx> grep what?
13:43:22  <svippery> The search path.
13:43:30  <svippery> Cause it does spit out a lot of information.
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13:47:56  <glx> openttd.exe -d misc4 2>&1 | grep " as "
13:48:12  <glx> I'm on windows ;)
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14:24:27  <svippery> Hm glx.
14:24:40  <svippery> dbg: [misc] /home/svip/.openttd/ added as search path
14:26:06  <glx> so it should find grfs in ~/.openttd/data
14:26:49  <svippery> But it doesn't... :(
14:27:05  <glx> what's the output of openttd -dgrf1 ?
14:27:43  <svippery> dbg: [grf] Scanning for NewGRFs
14:27:43  <svippery> dbg: [grf] Scan complete, found 0 files
14:28:03  <glx> and ls ~/.openttd/data ?
14:28:41  <svippery> $ ls ~/.openttd/data/
14:28:41  <svippery> airports.grf  canalsw.grf   roadstops.grf   autorail.grf  elrailsw.grf  tramtrkw.grf
14:29:22  <glx> those are not newgrfs, and are not used anymore
14:29:53  <svippery> Oh. :(
14:30:03  <svippery> So they were too old!
14:30:32  <glx> they are now in openttd?.grf
14:30:39  <svippery> ?
14:30:41  <LeviathNL> they're no newgrfs at all
14:30:54  <glx> and if openttd can start then it can load newgrfs
14:30:54  <svippery> I just wanted to try newindustries and newcargo. ;-;
14:31:23  <glx> because openttd?.grf are newgrf
14:31:55  <glx> you should have openttdd.grf and openttdw.grf in bin/data
14:32:04  <svippery> That I do.
14:33:08  <glx> so you just need to put the newgrfs you want in a data dir in searchpath
14:33:25  <svippery> Well...
14:33:31  <svippery> :O Can you suggest some newgrfs?
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14:34:06  <glx> I can suggest you to put trg*.grf and in a tar file in ~/.openttd/data
14:34:27  <svip> :o Can it read them when they are in a tarball?
14:34:29  <glx> that way you can have as many openttd version as you want without needing to copy them
14:34:48  <glx> yes it can :)
14:34:55  <svip> :O! Awesomeness.
14:35:03  <svip> But can it be compressed?
14:35:07  <glx> no
14:35:11  <svip> Aha.
14:35:34  <glx> but 1 tar is still 5 less files :)
14:36:07  <svip> omg it worked.
14:40:52  <svip> :O Are there any NewGRF packages that I can try newindustries/newcargo with, glx?
14:41:30  <glx> all ECS vectors, or PBI
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15:06:39  <svip> Hm!
15:06:53  <svip> Does not seem so well when I get (undefined string) a lot of places does it, glx?
15:07:17  <Gonozal_VIII> order them by grfid
15:07:31  <glx> then the grf order is wrong or you mixed incompatible grfs
15:08:19  <svip> Hm!
15:09:37  <svip> Let me try Gonozal_VIII's solution...
15:10:09  <Belugas> and check on the forums, there is a section devoted for just that
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15:10:51  <Gonozal_VIII> [16:07:16] Gonozal_VIII: order them by grfid <-- for george's vectors
15:11:41  <Gonozal_VIII> wow 2 new updates again
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15:14:11  <svip> What section specifically, Belugas?
15:15:29  <Gonozal_VIII> graphics section in the openttd and ttdpatch part of the forum both have lots of newgrf and info about newgrf
15:17:08  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- and that's very usefull
15:17:21  <svip> Just that... :|
15:17:35  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm?
15:17:42  <svip> I had ECS working, but I realised I had no vehicles to transport the cargo.
15:17:51  <svip> Well... the newcargo.
15:19:29  <Gonozal_VIII> you'll have to get some vehicle sets then :-)
15:19:45  <svip> :P
15:20:47  <Gonozal_VIII> i can't even recommend one because there are so many great sets
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15:22:29  <Gonozal_VIII> i hope the patch to load multiple vehicle sets makes it into trunk soon :-)
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15:42:13  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: which patch?
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15:45:17  <Belugas> the marvel of the marvel, the patch that is the most usefull feature evevr to be written by anyone since CS wrote ttd
15:45:21  <Belugas> :P
15:45:38  <Belugas> the one taht allows to break vehicle limits
15:47:01  <Sacro> :o
15:47:03  <Sacro> COMMIT IT
15:47:14  <Belugas> svip, search the forums. this question has been asked and answered sso many times
15:48:22  <Belugas> Sacro:  no.  i'm not even sure it addresses the probem the right way, since i've not yet looked at it
15:48:27  <Belugas> i know it exists, that's it
15:48:35  <Belugas> plus, you did not sais please
15:48:46  <Belugas> therefor, i put it in the garbage!
15:48:50  <Sacro> pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease commit it oh mr Belugas
15:48:54  <Sacro> damn :(
15:50:16  * Rubidium commits it
15:50:36  <Rubidium> to the list of patches not to commit because Sacro asked for it
15:50:54  <Sacro> Rubidium: damn :(
15:52:10  <Rubidium> anyhow, it won't be in 0.6. That's something I'm fairly sure about
15:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> <ln-> while the cross product for vectors represents the vector that is perpendicular to both the parameter vectors. <- actually, the cross product represents a vector that is perpendicular to all n-1 vectors (in n-dimensional vector space)
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15:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> let's completely break trunk ;)
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15:59:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11579 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
15:59:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Revert(r11578): some cases of key propagation are not handled correctly.
15:59:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: A better solution will be deviced, but not now. Let's not cause a ton of bug reports
15:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, like that :p
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15:59:56  <Belugas> by the way, i'm really sad to see that there are no bug fixed proposed by users.  Only an awfull lot of features and features and features
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16:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> i found a bug when generating a new map with alpine grf loaded, but did not have the time to isolate it yet...
16:02:43  <Belugas> fix it!
16:03:00  <SmatZ> hello
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16:03:13  <Belugas> hello SmatZ
16:03:53  <SmatZ> hello Belugas
16:06:37  <SpComb> <-- "focusing" zoom
16:06:54  <SpComb> i.e. it enlarges/shrinks the previous zoom level while it's loading the current zoom level
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16:07:42  <SpComb> it makes scrolling a tad slow, though :P
16:07:46  <SpComb> but it works o/
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16:11:56  <valhallasw> SpComb: is there some way to hide the loading-image-indicator?
16:12:08  <valhallasw> by creating a table that has a background or sth?
16:12:21  <SpComb> if you zoom out and scroll across the entire map, the loading-image things don't show up anymore, ever
16:12:32  <SpComb> oh wait, they do
16:12:36  <valhallasw> it does when zooming in
16:12:48  <SpComb> those are indeed distracting
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16:16:39  <SpComb> there
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16:19:16  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm that generates large static images of the map when zoomed out? you could put that into the game to enable more zoom out levels on large maps :-)
16:19:58  <SpComb> what do you mean? I just modify the properties of the <img>s
16:20:14  <SpComb> it uses whatever shinking/bloating algorithm that firefox uses
16:21:22  <Belugas> i think Gonozal_VIII wishes more zoom out on the game itself...
16:21:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i mean you could use that ingame for zooming out very far without the game crawling
16:21:38  <SpComb> indeed, and my javascript code isn't really relevant to OpenTTD
16:22:11  <hylje> zoom levels over 3 should be static images of the landscape and buildings
16:22:26  <Gonozal_VIII> yes :-)
16:23:04  <SmatZ> [17:19:59] <SpComb> what do you mean? I just modify the properties of the <img>s
16:23:06  <SmatZ> nice idea
16:23:06  * Belugas is depressed now... deeply
16:23:14  <hylje> :P
16:23:21  * hylje pats Belugas' back
16:23:25  <SmatZ> Belugas all will be good again soon!
16:23:28  <Gonozal_VIII> poor belugas
16:23:36  <hylje> no bugs, only features ;_;
16:24:26  <SpComb> SmatZ: implementing the code for this kind of stuff is trivial once you work it and get the correct positive/negative sign on the zoom delta
16:24:51  <SpComb>
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16:25:10  * SpComb uses fun variable names
16:25:52  <hylje> nicely descriptive
16:25:54  <Belugas> [11:27] <hylje> zoom levels over 3 should be static images of the landscape and buildings   <--- why have we never had such a brilliant and bug free idea?????
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16:26:30  <Gonozal_VIII> sarcasm?
16:26:39  <Gonozal_VIII> what bugs?
16:26:45  <Belugas> yeah...
16:26:46  <hylje> i suspect a metric load of sarcasm, yes
16:27:12  <SpComb> the correct term is "metric shitload"
16:27:23  <Belugas> i mean... some ideas may sound good at first, but when knowing the internals, you just can laugh
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16:27:42  <SpComb> replace OpenTTD's blitter/renderer with gecko
16:27:47  <Gonozal_VIII> spcombe manages to extract the pictues somehow...
16:27:47  <hylje> ha
16:27:50  <Gonozal_VIII> -e
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16:27:58  <hylje> it doesnt work that way
16:28:10  <hylje> and the first thing to do when i'm gonna contribute stuff
16:28:13  * Belugas goes away, shaking his head in disbelief
16:28:30  <hylje> is to see how stuff works and maybe find if it could work better
16:28:49  * SpComb thinks he has managed to figure out how the viewport coordiantes work now
16:29:10  <SpComb> although I always set top and left to zero now, so I'm still not entirely sure what *those* do now
16:29:24  <hylje> magic, i tell you
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16:30:49  <SpComb> and as for the javascript code, it's going more and more in the direction of more or less cloneing google maps
16:31:20  <SpComb> I need to change the mousewheel zoom code to work like google maps does, and then I probably need to optimize the focus-zoom stuff in the same way that google has
16:32:01  <SpComb> currently if you go over an area while zoomed in, then zoom out and look at the same area, you're looking at several hundred images... not that snappy anymore
16:33:27  <Gonozal_VIII> ooooh i forgot to say... great work so far :-)
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16:39:47  <SpComb> thanks, it's been fun
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17:15:02  <SpComb> <-- fullscreen is always fun :D
17:16:02  <SpComb> although my server hates it since it makes the number of visible tiles larger, and scrolling around is even slower
17:16:10  <hylje> thats pretty neat
17:16:26  <SpComb> the logs browser also does fullscreen, which is also quite neat
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17:16:48  <SpComb> but it shall remain a hidden feature
17:17:02  <SmatZ> a secreat feature :)
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17:20:31  <SpComb> indeed, because it kills my server
17:20:59  <Wolf01> hello
17:21:09  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
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17:36:24  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
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18:18:01  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, I just uploaded a new .tar. I sprite 12 are some miscolored pixels
18:18:11  <Wolf01> i know
18:18:37  <Wolf01> i'm recoloring the second terrain stages
18:22:23  <LeviathNL> on i pointed out some gridlines that I think need to be looked at, the lines are in the sprites but don't seem to fit
18:23:33  <SpComb> lego!
18:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not lego, it's brickland
18:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> lego is copyrighted
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18:32:28  <SpComb> grr... why would a dedicated server be unable to load any savegames?
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18:32:58  <Belugas> typo in name?
18:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> wrong version?
18:33:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> missing zlib-devel?
18:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> missing newgrfs?
18:33:22  <glx> what is the error message?
18:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, how is it decided which industry gets the cargo delivered to a station?
18:35:24  <SpComb> I can load the savegame just fine in the client of the same revision, but the dedicated server can't
18:35:35  <SpComb> Game Load Failed:File not readable
18:36:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> most likely you compiled without zlib
18:36:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can try loading a game saved from that server
18:40:38  <SpComb> and what's wrong version? Can you not load games saved with earlier versions of OpenTTD with newer versions of OpenTTD?
18:41:05  <glx> you can always load from previous versions
18:41:24  <SpComb> --with-zlib and it still doesn't load
18:42:43  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, iirc, it is the closest industry tile that accepts the delivered cargo
18:43:11  <SpComb>
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18:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: you need to install zlib-devel, of course
18:43:59  <glx>         if (_sl.fh == NULL && mode == SL_LOAD) _sl.fh = FioFOpenFile(filename, "rb", SAVE_DIR);
18:43:59  <glx>         if (_sl.fh == NULL && mode == SL_LOAD) _sl.fh = FioFOpenFile(filename, "rb", BASE_DIR);
18:44:11  <glx> that's where it tries to load
18:44:23  <SpComb> I have zlib1g-dev 1.2.3-13 installed, and it compiles just fine
18:45:02  <glx> can you load /tmp/... with a client?
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18:45:17  <SpComb> dunno, can't run a client
18:45:45  <SpComb> the savegame file itself works if I load it on windows from a network drive
18:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> generate a map, save it, and load it
18:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> with the server
18:46:22  <SmatZ> SpComb: all I can say: I do not have this problem
18:46:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> also check the reading rights
18:46:29  <glx> SpComb: what happens if you put it in an openttd dir?
18:46:47  <SpComb> "Map sucessfully saved to foo.sav" - where did the file go?
18:47:04  <Wolf01> LeviathNL:
18:47:06  <SpComb> it's not anywhere in the dir that the openttd exec is in
18:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> in ~/.openttd/save probably
18:47:20  <SpComb> so it is
18:47:51  <SpComb> <-- feature or bug?
18:47:59  <SpComb> (I hit ^C in the second one, it loaded it)
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18:49:47  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, can you look at the gridlines? I will pngcodec these second stage demolition-tiles now
18:50:08  <Wolf01> i'm fixing the first stage now
18:50:20  <glx> SpComb: hmm looks like using full path fails
18:50:25  <Wolf01> i think that all the tiles need to be fixed
18:50:41  <glx> and that's weird
18:51:21  <SmatZ> maybe no read access to "/" and "/home/" ?
18:51:30  <SmatZ> or exec
18:51:50  <SmatZ> I don't know how OTTD browses directories...
18:52:35  <glx> try ./bin/openttd -D -g ~/.openttd/save/foo.sav
18:53:34  <SpComb> terom@zapotekII:~/my_ottd/test$ echo ~/.openttd/save/foo.sav
18:53:34  <SpComb> /home/terom/.openttd/save/foo.sav
18:53:37  <SpComb> bash expands it
18:56:25  <SpComb> <-- hmm... I somehow managed to load the openttd title game
18:56:28  <Sacro> !seen ThePizzaKing
18:56:39  <Sacro> @seen ThePizzaKing
18:56:41  <DorpsGek> Sacro: ThePizzaKing was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 49 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <ThePizzaKing> I might not have done the last matrix step either, and just subed in the value for y
18:56:46  <SpComb> I mean
18:56:55  <Sacro> thanks DorpsGek, he was wrong about that :(
18:58:36  <glx> SpComb: what version are you using?
18:58:54  <SpComb> so if I load that game into the client, it's fine, but if I load it into the dedicated server, it loads the openttd title save instead
18:58:59  <SpComb> r11557
18:59:41  <glx> @openttd commit 11569
18:59:46  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by rubidium :: r11569 trunk/src/fileio.cpp (2007-12-04 18:42:08 UTC)
18:59:47  <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix [FS#1480]: full paths sometimes did not work correctly.
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18:59:54  <glx> try this one :)
19:00:04  <SpComb> looks promising
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19:03:17  * SpComb twiddles thumbs while it compiles
19:04:52  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, looks better now imho
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19:05:06  <LeviathNL> (with green studs on brown ground)
19:05:44  <hylje> are you implying lego grass is built on lego dirt, all in a lego block supershape?
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19:08:23  <Sacro> i thought it was breeded :(
19:08:30  <SpComb> glx: r11576, no change
19:08:38  <SpComb> still loads the title savegame instead
19:08:55  <SpComb> and the windows client still loads the savegame fine
19:08:58  <LeviathNL> hylje, that sentence is confusing me  (lego block supershape?)
19:09:06  <hylje> the shape of shapes
19:09:55  <Wolf01> LeviathNL, the corner full-slopes should be lowered by one stud
19:12:08  <LeviathNL> then the bottom will not line up correctly.
19:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: again, it's not lego
19:14:04  <hylje> fine
19:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> (loosely based on the simpsons quote: "i'm not xena")
19:15:49  <hylje> i thought you were xena..
19:16:50  <SpComb> so what could cause OpenTTD to load title.dat as a normal savegame whenever you pass it a certain savegame via -g?
19:18:21  <SpComb> right, it works if I load it in the client, save it, and then load that in the server
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19:19:27  <Belugas> what about loading a save made by the client?
19:19:53  <Sacro> eaten by a grue
19:20:05  <Sacro> Cocks
19:20:09  <Bjarni> what is a grue?
19:20:21  <Sacro> i didn't type that
19:20:27  <Sacro> left the lab computer unattended
19:20:30  <SpComb> Belugas: that works as well
19:20:32  <hylje> text adventures have grues
19:20:36  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, better than the inverted?
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19:20:47  <SpComb> now my code is just crashing after free(), I guess it has too many vehicles or something
19:22:39  <Belugas> so, is it to say that your server cannot load saves he made himself?  but can load anything else?
19:23:43  <Belugas> next idea would be to try a nightly version, just to check if it is not something on your compilation that went coucou
19:25:07  <Wolf01> LeviathNL
19:25:27  <Wolf01> the tiles borders should be fixed
19:25:34  <SpComb> Belugas: no, it's a savegame from openttdcoop
19:25:46  <SpComb> from some revision in october
19:25:59  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, any changes in size of the tiles?
19:26:06  <Wolf01> no
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19:31:13  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, I see you didn't fix the miscolored pixels in sprite 12?
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19:33:53  <Wolf01> what's wrong with it?
19:36:40  <LeviathNL> Wolf01,
19:37:00  <Wolf01> ahh
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19:39:30  <Wolf01> fixed, same link
19:39:41  <SpComb> screenshoting the new percentage-loaded signs causes it to crash when it free()s the buff used by the screenshot code
19:40:14  <skidd13> night
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19:40:20  * Wolf01 -> dinner
19:40:56  * Belugas -> work
19:41:02  <SpComb> at least for my code, somehow
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19:46:26  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, nice everything seems to  be correct now
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19:53:06  <SpComb> ok, drawing signs seems to be broken to the point of memory corruption at zoom levels 2X and 4X?
19:53:48  <SpComb> I can make a screenshot of a sign just fine at normal zoom and 8X zoom, but at 4X zoom it tries to draw the rectangle around it, but it goes all over the place, and at 2X, it crashes
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19:59:41  <SpComb> it doesn't seem to apply to drawing to the screen buffer, and it doesn't happen in the giant screenshot, but if I try and screenshot a viewport with ZOOM_LVL_OUT_2X, it does memory corruption
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20:10:17  <SpComb> <-- values of w between (inclusive) 195 and 314 cause it to crash
20:10:49  <SpComb> it's not really a bug in my code, I guess OpenTTD's code just wasn't designed to take screenshots of viewports at zoom levels other than NORMAL
20:11:04  <SmatZ> I really doubt
20:12:02  <SpComb> if doesn't crash if I remove the sign
20:12:48  <SpComb> there might, of course, be some kind of bug as to how I pass around the viewport dimensions then... useage of those functions isn't really documented anywhere
20:12:50  <BiA|pavel-css> SpComb: but signs worked later ... or thats why you crashed last time? :)
20:14:45  <SmatZ> SpComb: created new game, placed sign, pressed Ctrl+G, nothing crashed
20:16:14  <SmatZ> SpComb: well... giant screenshots are made with ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL
20:16:24  <SmatZ> no matter what zoom level you have set
20:16:30  <SmatZ> so it may do something unexpected
20:17:06  <SpComb> oh right, I remembered that bit wrong
20:17:59  <SpComb> BiA|pavel-css: I don't really understand what you mean
20:18:58  <SpComb> one thing that crashes it is taking a normal-zoom screenshot of a sign where the sign (and a bit around the dges) is not completely inside the screenshot
20:19:20  <SpComb> another symptom is that when it tries to draw the box around the sign, the lines go all over the place
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20:20:21  <SpComb> <-- observe. I guess those must be my fault, and it's probably the same reason that it's crashing
20:21:19  <SmatZ> SpComb: what value does something like screen.pitch return?
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20:21:31  <SpComb> in what context?
20:21:45  <SpComb> the DrawPixelInfo.pitch that I set? I set it to the same as .width
20:21:52  <SpComb> not sure where I grabbed the code for that
20:21:53  <SmatZ> SpComb: it seems the pixels are drawn with too high pitch
20:22:00  <SpComb> what is pitch? :)
20:22:10  <SmatZ> SpComb: number of bytes per line
20:22:22  <SmatZ> it may be more than width even for 8bpp modes
20:22:31  <SpComb> and for 8bpp?
20:22:37  <SpComb> oh right, "even for"
20:22:47  <SpComb> so how do I determine the correct value, then?
20:23:01  <SmatZ> I don't know, sorry
20:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> -- skidd13 hat den Kanal verlassen (Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt). <--- weird, i heard that sencence just a few days ago somewhere else...
20:23:17  * SpComb is already rgrepping
20:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> just in a slightly different form
20:23:34  <SmatZ> SpComb: maybe set it to your image width before compression
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20:24:22  <SpComb> src/video/win32_v.cpp:  _screen.pitch = (bpp == 8) ? Align(w, 4) : w;
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20:28:24  <SpComb> MakeWorldScreenshot sets (ViewPort vp) vp.virtual_width = (MapMaxX() + MapMaxY()) * TILE_PIXELS; vp.width = vp.virtual_width; and then dpi.pitch is set to that
20:29:20  <SpComb> I set width to the pixel width as in the URL, and then virtual_width to ScaleByZoom(width, zoom)
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20:29:37  <SpComb> but that gives my corrupt sign rectangles even with normal zoom
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20:32:01  <SpComb> using Align(width, 4); for pitch doesn't help
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20:34:14  <SpComb> it just makes it crash for all widths not divisible by 4
20:34:57  <hylje> :o
20:35:02  <hylje> hmm
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20:37:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11581 /trunk/src/newgrf_cargo.h: -Codechange: add some missing cargo classes and some documentation.
20:39:30  * SpComb preferrs to spend as little time as possible in the OpenTTD code
20:39:40  <BiA|pavel-css> why OpenTTD server si recieving someting at port 49985?
20:39:42  <SpComb> it's not documented very well and guesswork leads to interesting things with C code
20:41:00  <Rubidium> probably because it sent if from that port
20:41:17  <Digitalfox> Actually i'm not a coder SpComb but trunk has received a lot of documentation lately..
20:41:44  <BiA|pavel-css> "if" ?
20:42:01  <Rubidium> s/if/it/
20:42:07  <Digitalfox> Comparing 0.5 to 0.6 (Beta or trunk) and lot's of documentation was added
20:43:52  <SpComb> mostly having an issue with the viewport code, which is mostly from r1 and mostly undocumented
20:48:11  <BiA|pavel-css> i don't know, but it seems to recieving something on random ports while no sending anything
20:48:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11582 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: tiles were not marked dirty in some cases when removing a lock
20:49:43  <BiA|pavel-css> lol, MS now see my server ... :-/
20:50:59  <BiA|pavel-css> can anyone see any server @
20:51:21  <Rubidium> if the MS can everybody should, unless you are actively blocking them
20:51:46  <BiA|pavel-css> ask glx: he couldn't yesterday
20:51:54  <BiA|pavel-css> and Gonozal_VIII: joined my server ...
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20:53:53  <BiA|pavel-css> Rubidium: how can i block just some users to disallow them to see me?
20:54:27  <Rubidium> you can't
20:54:29  <Gonozal_VIII> r11580M ?
20:54:33  <BiA|pavel-css> yup
20:54:36  <BiA|pavel-css> lol again you
20:54:39  <Rubidium> as they can always see you using the masterserver
20:54:46  <Digitalfox> Does anyone here uses email or How the hell do we now see how much space is being used and free space available?
20:55:31  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: yesterday i restarted server and MS didnt saw me anymore :(
20:55:34  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
20:55:38  <Digitalfox> I've search everywhere and can't find the space available and used in my email :\
20:55:56  <Digitalfox> It's like they are hiding it :\
20:55:59  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
20:56:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11583 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#1484]: windows could get completely missing when one resized the window to something very small.
20:56:54  <BiA|pavel-css> soo, i will start new server ...
20:57:37  <Gonozal_VIII> you're right digitalfox...
20:57:43  <Gonozal_VIII> nowhere to be seen
20:58:03  <BiA|pavel-css> wow, MS see me again, its my record :)
20:58:18  <Digitalfox> Gonozal_VIII: I am? I was thinking i was missing it.. :)
20:58:31  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: you are bad tester, it works for you all time :)
20:58:38  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
20:58:48  <BiA|pavel-css> cna you just try to connect?
20:58:50  <BiA|pavel-css> *can
20:58:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have your version so... nope
20:59:07  <BiA|pavel-css> now clearl 11580
20:59:09  <BiA|pavel-css> *clear
20:59:21  <BiA|pavel-css> what version do you have? :P
20:59:36  <Gonozal_VIII> 11542 :P
20:59:50  <BiA|pavel-css> not that one ^^
20:59:54  <BiA|pavel-css> beta1 :)
21:00:31  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:49  <BiA|pavel-css> ... MS see me again :)
21:00:51  <BiA|pavel-css> good day :)
21:01:08  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
21:01:13  <Gonozal_VIII> 3 times...
21:02:09  <Gonozal_VIII> 3 different ports...
21:02:38  <Gonozal_VIII> 4...
21:03:04  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't work
21:03:08  <BiA|pavel-css> O_o
21:03:13  <glx> still offline
21:03:37  <Gonozal_VIII> 6 times online now with 6 different ports...
21:03:45  <BiA|pavel-css> wtf?
21:04:43  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: what ports? :)
21:04:55  <Gonozal_VIII> 11646
21:05:05  <Gonozal_VIII> 11650
21:05:12  <Gonozal_VIII> 11643
21:05:19  <Gonozal_VIII> 11642
21:05:26  <Gonozal_VIII> 11649
21:05:29  <BiA|pavel-css> search 3979 one :D
21:05:36  <Gonozal_VIII> 11654
21:06:01  <Gonozal_VIII> no 3979
21:06:17  <BiA|pavel-css> can anyhow help setting server_bind_ip or connect_to_ip?
21:06:46  <BiA|pavel-css> well, i can try :)
21:07:37  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: now?
21:08:28  <Gonozal_VIII> offline :-)
21:08:32  <BiA|pavel-css> lol :)
21:08:41  <BiA|pavel-css> now, only MS can see me
21:08:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i have you 7 times in my list, 6 online 1 offline
21:08:56  <BiA|pavel-css> :D
21:09:07  <BiA|pavel-css> btw, 4times that MS see me ...
21:09:26  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: flood warning
21:09:52  <BiA|pavel-css> :)
21:10:21  <Gonozal_VIII> sorry... he asked for the ports
21:11:30  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: and now? i cleared openttd.cfg :)
21:11:45  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: at least over here in finland we have this convention of expressing list of things by separating them with commas, not newlines.
21:12:24  <Gonozal_VIII> the one where i can't see the port (i assume it's the 3979 one) is still marked as offline the others seem to have clients on them and change positions at random
21:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> you
21:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> have
21:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> a
21:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> strange
21:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> convention
21:12:37  <Gonozal_VIII> :D
21:12:49  <BiA|pavel-css> omg :)
21:13:07  <BiA|pavel-css> MS can see me again
21:13:08  <BiA|pavel-css> :(
21:13:47  <Gonozal_VIII> strange things are going on there^^
21:13:55  <BiA|pavel-css> on me :(
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21:15:41  <ln-> how has cable?
21:17:01  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of them
21:17:47  <Gonozal_VIII> i use them to move my electrons
21:18:03  <BiA|pavel-css> cable is ok :)
21:18:08  *** alex^^ [] has joined #openttd
21:18:17  <BiA|pavel-css> and this one is almost new :)
21:18:39  <Rubidium> BiA|pavel-css: have you opened/redirected the TCP port?
21:18:45  <BiA|pavel-css> but lan(hamachi) works ...
21:18:52  <BiA|pavel-css> yeah i tried even all ports
21:19:03  <Rubidium> BiA|pavel-css: the MS does not use the TCP port
21:19:10  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: brb]
21:19:15  <BiA|pavel-css>
21:19:15  <ln-> who wants to tell me about cable-tv in Germany?
21:19:15  <Rubidium> so if the MS sees you it still doesn't mean the TCP port is open
21:19:16  *** titus_ [] has joined #openttd
21:19:37  <BiA|pavel-css> hmm how i open TCP port?
21:19:48  <alex^^> # can someone please tell me why my vsersers are not rebooting after i did a system reboot?
21:20:05  <Rubidium> that depends on your OS and firewall and router and ...
21:20:36  <alex^^> woops
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21:21:05  <BiA|pavel-css> OS - win XP ... FW - turning off him doesnt help, router - i forwarded 3979 thats all, i dont know what i can do with him :)
21:21:06  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:06  *** titus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:55  <Rubidium> if you forwarded 3979 (and did it correctly) then starting openttd when using that port should work
21:22:11  <Rubidium> if it does not, then your computer/os/router is blocking it
21:22:38  <BiA|pavel-css> hmm
21:23:24  <BiA|pavel-css> so i have blocked tcp? :/
21:23:31  <Rubidium> probably
21:23:35  <Rubidium> or your ISP
21:23:42  <BiA|pavel-css> ISP?
21:23:57  <Gonozal_VIII> provider
21:24:31  <BiA|pavel-css> well, how provider can block it if Gonozal_VIII joined yesterday ...
21:24:59  <Gonozal_VIII> i h4xx0r3d through
21:25:40  <Rubidium> once I could just send and receive mail directly from my DSL account, now I can't due to the provider having blocked that port, but according to your 'vision' on the world I should still be able to send mail...
21:26:34  <BiA|pavel-css> well, port scanner can help :)
21:26:38  <BiA|pavel-css> and ... is responding on port 3979 ().
21:26:53  <BiA|pavel-css> it will never respond if provider block it
21:27:00  <BiA|pavel-css> i hope now :(
21:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> is it also responding to UDP?
21:28:27  <BiA|pavel-css> UDP? :) you try :)
21:30:30  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, are you planning on fixing the other stages today?
21:32:05  <BiA|pavel-css> Eddi|zuHause3: whats udp?
21:32:15  <SmatZ> this guy probably stole ~20 mil Euro (500 mil CZK) ... ... maybe he is dead already :-/
21:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> what? how? where? when?
21:32:29  <BiA|pavel-css> SmatZ: 560M :)
21:32:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> why does how not start with a w?
21:32:47  <Gonozal_VIII> 20 mio... peanuts
21:32:51  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
21:33:05  <SmatZ> :)
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21:35:13  <SmatZ> if he bet "9, 10, 24, 28, 39, 42, 3" in that German lottery, he could have that money in much easier way :-/
21:35:30  <BiA|pavel-css> :D
21:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> not really, because the jackpot was only 43M, and afaik it is shared by several people
21:39:31  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
21:39:50  <BiA|pavel-css> 43M czech or your currency?
21:39:55  <SmatZ> Euro
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21:40:15  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: what happened with the police forces of DDR at the Change?
21:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: they stayed?
21:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> where would they go?
21:41:07  <BiA|pavel-css> 43M * 26 = 1118M kc and he stole "just" 560M :)
21:41:49  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: i mean.. they probably had somewhat different training and instructions and uniforms than their western colleagues..
21:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> i only know a person that was in the police orchestra, but that one got disbanded, and he was transfered to a "real" police unit
21:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe they forced out some of the higher ranked officers
21:43:35  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: and also, when a country ceases to exist, it's not that clear if the police still have any legal grounds to be police.
21:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> what i know for sure is that the military was disbanded, all military property and a portion of the soldiers got taken over by the western military
21:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume something similar, with different scale, happened with the police
21:45:37  <BiA|pavel-css> gn @ all
21:45:42  <ln-> ok
21:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> at least there are a lot of policemen that are still policemen from the "old times"
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21:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> does that remotely answer your question?
21:47:38  <ln-> even largely. thanks.
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21:48:40  <ln->
21:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can find similar processes throughout the entire public services... a lot of the high ranked people got driven out (usually because of party-membership), usually being replaced by more or less capable western persons, while the lower ranks just got taken over
21:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i remember those...
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21:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> of course most of the technical stuff was horribly outdated, especially cars got replaced very fast by western versions
21:53:56  <Bjarni> <-- hehe.. some people talk about adding the Welsh flag into Union Jack... 2 chan has been helpful and has made a whole lot of ways to do it (some more creative than others) :D
21:54:12  <Bjarni> Sacro: looks like your new flag might have anime in it XD
21:54:37  <Sacro> ?
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21:58:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: check out 2:52
21:58:32  <Bjarni> <-- or this one, which is the source for the video
21:58:46  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
21:58:57  <fjb> Moin
22:01:52  <ThePizzaKing> Yay! I passed all my second semester subjects for University :D
22:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> second semester? at this time of the year?
22:02:39  <Rubidium> and you're in your fifth semester by now...
22:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> here, the winter semester usually has an odd number
22:03:23  *** Guest471 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:03:25  <ThePizzaKing> 1st semester in the first half of the year
22:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> because you finish school in july, and start studying in october
22:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> or you have military or civil service inbetween, which usually costs you a year
22:04:31  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: They do some things different at the other side of the wolrd.
22:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, like mixing up winter and summer ;)
22:05:05  <ThePizzaKing> hehehe
22:05:14  <ThePizzaKing> And walking on our heads?
22:05:20  <fjb> That is because they try to avoid falling off the earth.
22:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought they used anchors for that
22:05:55  <ln-> anyone not obeying the standard 4-semester year shall be kicked.
22:06:00  *** Greyscale [] has joined #openttd
22:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> (now... which stupid tv series did i get that from...)
22:06:40  * fjb doesn't know that stupid tv series.
22:06:50  <ln-> when was the first change to watch ST: TNG in DDR?
22:06:55  <ln-> chance even
22:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't really know...
22:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> i do know that i watched the episode where they got stuck and whenever they moved, they ended up at the same place again
22:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i don't know when that was
22:08:19  <Bjarni> <ThePizzaKing> Yay! I passed all my second semester subjects for University :D <-- congratulations. I remember when that happened... feels like ages ago now
22:08:31  <ThePizzaKing> thanks
22:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> i watched that at a neighbour of my grandparents
22:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> they lived pretty close to the border
22:08:46  <Bjarni> and thinking back the questions were so easy
22:08:59  <Bjarni> I mean they would be easy now (but not back then I had to solve them)
22:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> so they had western tv all the time
22:10:11  <Bjarni> the guards at the border didn't stop the signals? I thought they were ordered not to let anything pass
22:10:16  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: You were vwery bad to watch western tv then. Shame on you. :-)
22:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> fjb: western tv was never officially forbidden
22:11:13  <fjb> But it was still considered bad habits.
22:11:40  <glx> luckily internet was not like it is now :)
22:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on who you ask ;)
22:11:47  *** Greyscale [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:11:56  <fjb> :-)
22:12:11  <fjb> Internet? Even China has the internet...
22:12:18  <Bjarni> <glx> luckily internet was not like it is now :) <-- back then they had a .dd domain
22:13:02  <Bjarni> <fjb> Internet? Even China has the internet... <-- they use it differently than we do. I mean you can get jailed for life if you make money on porn on the internet
22:13:06  <Bjarni> they don't like that
22:13:32  <glx> they don't like if you search stuff about Tibet either
22:13:36  <Prof_Frink> Porn? On *my* internet?
22:13:37  <fjb> They don't like many other things in China.
22:14:05  *** toet [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:22  <Bjarni>  <Prof_Frink> Porn? On *my* internet? <-- that's not it... you are not allowed to make MONEY on porn on the internet
22:14:29  <Belugas> night all, i'll go and get some rest
22:14:40  <fjb> You are allowed to make porn for free?
22:14:42  <Bjarni> I think it's a law that should prevent exploitation of poor Chinese girls
22:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Bjarni> <glx> luckily internet was not like it is now :) <-- back then they had a .dd domain <- nobody ever had a .dd domain
22:14:50  <Bjarni> fjb: I think so
22:15:02  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: it's reserved for DDR
22:15:14  <Bjarni> but nobody actually used it
22:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but none ever got given out
22:15:15  <fjb> Night Belugas
22:15:19  <Bjarni> night Belugas
22:16:22  <fjb> German politicians had a plan to only allow porn on the internet after 10pm.
22:16:35  <Bjarni> <fjb> You are allowed to make porn for free? <-- I don't think the mafia will do that. I think money is really a reason for some people to put porn of OTHER people on the internet
22:16:40  <Rubidium> fjb: great idea ;)
22:16:51  <Bjarni> fjb: good thinking... in what timezone?
22:16:55  <Rubidium> get a contract with akamai or so and it's always after 10 pm on the server ;)
22:21:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is the real "realm where the sun does not set"
22:21:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> or rather "rises"
22:21:04  <fjb> The politicians were questioned "where" 10pm. They didn't understand that question...
22:21:04  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Ahem, I think you'll find that was the British Empire.
22:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, actually that term was used for the austrian realm
22:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> back when it contained spain and all spanish colonies
22:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was way before anyone ever thought of a "british empire"
22:21:04  <Vikthor> (23:10:11) Bjarni: the guards at the border didn't stop the signals? I thought they were ordered not to let anything pass <-- I actually here they tried to jamm western broadcasting
22:21:04  <Bjarni> Vikthor: I knew they did that somewhere... but where is "here"? :)
22:21:04  <Vikthor> Czech republic, former Czechoslovakia
22:21:04  <Bjarni> saying Czech republic would be enough for us. We know Europe ;)
22:21:04  <Vikthor> They had to drop that because obviously they were jamming also in Germany and Austria and that was violation of some treaties regarding broadcasting
22:21:04  <Bjarni> hehe
22:21:06  <Bjarni> huh?
22:21:10  <Bjarni> 7 lines in 1 sec?
22:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> same here
22:21:32  <Vikthor> some lag of the IRC net?
22:22:05  <Bjarni> looks like it
22:22:21  *** toet [] has joined #openttd
22:22:58  <Bjarni> o_O
22:23:02  <Bjarni>
22:23:09  <Bjarni> people actually use that?
22:23:12  <SpComb> yes, it's this ISP
22:23:21  <Prof_Frink> By choice?
22:23:26  <fjb> The lag moster escaped again.
22:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i heard of it from ancient fairy tales
22:23:42  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
22:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean AOL, not the lag monster
22:23:59  <Bjarni> I thought aol was something invented by to scare people
22:24:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> or are they the same?
22:24:37  * Prof_Frink banishes Bjarni to September
22:24:44  <glx> AOL = internet in internet :)
22:25:03  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: ???
22:25:44  <Wolf01> [22:30:40] <LeviathNL> Wolf01, are you planning on fixing the other stages today? <- i think no :P
22:26:03  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The September that Never Ended
22:26:15  <Bjarni> 9/11?
22:26:39  <Prof_Frink> Don't be silly
22:26:46  <Prof_Frink> When AOL joined Usenet.
22:26:52  <Bjarni> The neverending story?
22:26:58  <Bjarni> oh
22:27:18  * Bjarni was unaffected by that incident
22:27:31  <Eddi|zuHause3>
22:27:35  <Prof_Frink> Except, that it has, since, ended
22:27:59  <Bjarni> and now to something completely different
22:28:19  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: what do you think about the issue about the Welsh flag and Union jack?
22:28:22  <Prof_Frink> s/to/for/
22:28:57  <Bjarni> >_<
22:29:02  <Bjarni> shut up
22:29:08  <Bjarni> just answer the question
22:29:41  <Prof_Frink> The phrase "What issue" comes to mind
22:30:04  <SpComb> the issue about the Welsh flag and Union jack
22:30:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11584 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp date.cpp network/network.cpp stdafx.h): -Change: add some extra checking in the hope to find the cause of FS#1482.
22:30:17  <Bjarni> some politician wants to add the Welsh flag to Union Jack
22:30:41  <Prof_Frink> OK, that's an issue with politicians being morons.
22:30:46  <Prof_Frink> Nowt to do with flags.
22:30:52  <Bjarni> hehe
22:31:01  <Bjarni> I like how 2chan treated it
22:31:08  <Prof_Frink> And the solution to that can be found on Facebook.
22:31:13  <Bjarni> <-- I specially like this one (but not as a national flag)
22:31:20  <Prof_Frink> Clarkson for PM!
22:31:36  <Bjarni> Clarkson....
22:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> wtf is a clarkson?
22:31:52  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Get out.
22:32:20  <Rubidium> hmm... a cool-board with politicians
22:32:35  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: a politician and "<Prof_Frink> [...] politicians being morons."... logically that means that Clarkson is a moron
22:32:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't say Westerwelle for chancellor and then throw you out...
22:32:51  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: First man to drive to the north pole.
22:33:00  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
22:33:53  <Bjarni> <-- here is a bit of a background story for the drawings from 2chan
22:34:08  <Bjarni> what is a westerwelle?
22:34:38  <ln-> Bjarni: do you have cable?
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22:35:25  <Bjarni> yes
22:35:34  <Bjarni> I have both ethernet and usb cables
22:35:37  <Bjarni> :P
22:35:52  <Bjarni> not to mention firewire
22:36:14  <ln-> what about coaxial
22:36:18  <Bjarni> I got a decent bandwidth if that is what you mean
22:36:39  <ln-> i mean cable-tv.
22:36:41  <Bjarni> <ln-> what about coaxial <-- yeah... I have a connection to the TV antenna
22:36:44  <Bjarni> oh
22:36:50  <fjb> Bjarni: Westerwelle is a german politician.
22:36:50  <ln-> tv stands for television
22:36:50  * Bjarni has 3 channels
22:37:13  <Bjarni> take a guess on my TV connection
22:37:29  <Bjarni> well... I have a zillion Swedish channels as well but most of them are coded
22:37:36  <Bjarni> and the rest are in Swedish :P
22:38:05  <Sacro> is it if(foo > bar) ? return foo ? return bar?
22:38:08  <Sacro> i can't recall syntax
22:38:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> i get Al Jazeera :)
22:38:27  <fjb> if(foo > bar) ? return foo : return bar?
22:38:28  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: do you understand it?
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22:38:47  <ln-> isn't al-jazeera in english?
22:38:50  <Sacro> though i probably shouldn't be using that style of syntax
22:38:52  <ln-> (too)
22:39:03  <Bjarni> Sacro: return (foo > bar ? foo : bar);
22:39:05  <Sacro> and c# doesn't alow it
22:39:10  <fjb> I guess he gets the english version of Al Jazeera.
22:39:32  <fjb> Who cares about C#?
22:39:36  <Sacro> Bjarni: ah yes
22:39:39  <Sacro> fjb: me
22:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: they have an english channel
22:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i get also the arabic version
22:40:07  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: ok so you understand the language but do you understand the content?
22:41:29  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> right now they are having a discussion about deserting american soldiers
22:43:01  <Bjarni> do you trust them?
22:43:53  <fjb> I guess you can trust them more than many of the us channels.
22:44:11  <Bjarni> are you sure?
22:44:53  <fjb> At least for the english version of Al Jazeera you can be sure about that.
22:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> from their setup, Al Jazeera International doesn't look very different from any other news channel out there
22:47:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:47:09  <Bjarni> I don't trust them
22:47:39  <Bjarni> but then again I generally don't trust media
22:49:32  <Sacro> anyone here do C#?
22:49:40  <Sacro> i want to know how to make an array of highscores sortable
22:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i generally do Db
22:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's called "enharmonic confusion"
22:50:06  <Bjarni> Al Jazeera were hard on Denmark during that newspaper cartoon issue. I don't know if there was a difference between the English and the Arabic versions but the Arabic version wanted to talk bad about Denmark even when they had no facts to base their statements on
22:50:22  <Bjarni> Sacro: C# isn't for real coders
22:50:26  <Bjarni> so I don't know it
22:50:29  <Sacro> Bjarni: sush you
22:50:32  <Sacro> err
22:50:34  <Sacro> shush
22:50:45  <Bjarni> sush what?
22:50:49  <Bjarni> sushi?
22:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> sushi
22:50:56  <Bjarni> no thanks :)
22:51:16  <Bjarni> I'm not going to eat anything raw that you serve me
22:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> there are a lot of types of sushi that are poisonous if you prepare them wrong
22:52:06  <Sacro> hmmm
22:52:11  <Sacro> i know there's public, private
22:52:22  <Sacro> but isn't there one thats public, but only to the local class?
22:52:28  <Bjarni> Sacro: please don't talk about your privates
22:52:58  <Bjarni> Sacro: in C++ that's called protected (if I understand the question correctly)
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22:53:24  <Bjarni> yeah
22:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> the lag monster finally got them
22:53:31  <Sacro> :o
22:53:32  <Bjarni> we killed the resistance :D
22:53:35  <Sacro> Bjarni: yeah, that's the one
22:53:36  <Bjarni> now I got full power
22:54:36  <Sacro> :o
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22:54:55  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: i had to spend another 4 hours on that assignment at uni today :(
22:55:44  <ThePizzaKing> Did you get it done?
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22:55:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> linear algebra is so trivial...
22:56:42  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: yes, i had to use an inversion matrix thingy
22:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> my analysis professor once said: "if Gauß knew they called that algorithm after him, he would turn around in his grave"
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22:57:11  <ThePizzaKing> Sacro: Ah, that's the harder way to use matrixes to solve it
22:57:21  *** Tlustoch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:57:27  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: which is what the "using matrix methods" was impying
22:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gauß never studied solving linear equation systems...
22:58:28  <ThePizzaKing> though, the other way was still using martices
22:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> he just Did The Right Thing (TM)
22:58:44  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: yes, but not what he covered in lectures
22:58:57  <ThePizzaKing> ah
22:59:27  * Prof_Frink puts Sacro in a narrow corridor with a gauss turret in
23:00:11  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause3> linear algebra is so trivial... <-- I thought so too until I actually had to use it in other courses then it became somewhat harder
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23:14:59  <ln-> is DVB-C used in germany?
23:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
23:15:15  <ln-> widely?
23:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> but is very slowly developing
23:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> mostly, you have to pay extra fees
23:16:14  <ln-> without extra fees you get analog?
23:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can get DVB-C for the same price as analog, but they leave out some channels
23:17:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have to pay extra to get the same channels as on analog
23:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> kinda like pay-tv
23:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> just that you still get commercial breaks
23:19:12  <ln-> is DVB encrypted or not?
23:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> not initially
23:19:38  <ln-> and can you use whatever device you prefer for receiving it?
23:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> i am using DVB-S, which whatever device i like to
23:20:44  <Sacro> i should have got a DVB-{T,C,S2} card
23:20:57  <Sacro> but then, I am in the only city in the country where DVB-C is unavailable
23:21:11  <Sacro> however both houses i've lived in have an unused dish next to the window
23:21:14  <ln-> i've been wondering for a long time why is there exactly *one* DVB-C receiver for USB 2.0 available on the European market.
23:21:30  <ln-> which is expensive.
23:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> encryption is only for channels that have a regional lock (like ORF (austrian state channel, only austrian citizens can get a key)), or pay-tv channels
23:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> just for the cable networks they found a way to charge additional money for the private channels that are usually free-tv (commercial financed)
23:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> they tried to push the same through for satellite, but that has not gone very far afaik
23:25:19  <Sacro> a couple of channels over here are ... "encrypted"
23:25:28  <Sacro> but actually, all the do is move the video signal out the way
23:25:29  <ln-> over here the law requires cable-tv operators to transmit those channels for free that are also available terrestrially in the area.
23:25:35  <Sacro> however, with a computer based dvb-t card
23:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, over satellite, about half of the channels are encrypted
23:25:41  <Sacro> you can just search for the stream
23:25:45  <Sacro> and bingo - free "pron"
23:25:53  <ln-> ... still some companies had all DVB channels encrypted, though maybe not anymore.
23:26:13  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Only one problem with that.
23:26:17  <Sacro> oh?
23:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: most "private" channels do not send terrestrial here
23:26:21  <Prof_Frink> You need a computer.
23:26:29  <Sacro> i have a computer
23:26:35  <Prof_Frink> So you can have free pron instead.
23:26:50  <Sacro> yes, but porn on tv amuses me
23:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> in germany, it is illegal to broadcast porn on tv
23:27:44  <Sacro> really?
23:27:50  <Sacro> i thought all you had on tv was porn
23:28:16  <Sacro> on british tv its illegal to show an erect penis
23:28:19  <Sacro> or a close up of a woman
23:28:26  <Sacro> which kinda makes porn rather boring
23:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> only if you saw it with the eyes of the american FCC ;)
23:29:16  <ln-> it's completely legal to send porn -- even hardcore -- on finnish tv, but still that doesn't happen virtually ever.
23:30:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, they invented something called "softporn", where you hardly ever see anything...
23:30:40  <Sacro> and when you do see it
23:30:42  <Sacro> it's soft
23:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> just gymnastics lessons, with bad music and "oh"s and "ah"s dubbed over them
23:30:57  <ln-> still they bother to send it.
23:31:51  <ln-> and never more than one male and female present at a time.
23:33:35  <Sacro> oh we have lesbian porn
23:33:43  <Sacro> that's not as bad
23:34:44  <Sacro> grrr
23:35:02  <Sacro> why does Visual Stupido insist on converting tabs to 4 spaces
23:35:07  <Sacro> anyone any idea on fixing this?
23:36:14  *** Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
23:36:26  <Sacro> and shouldn't you use ++score, rather than score++ ?
23:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> goto options -> select "use real tabs"
23:36:56  <ln-> Sacro:
23:37:34  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: where abouts/
23:37:39  <Sacro> ln-: i don't have a mac
23:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: how should i know?
23:39:28  <ln-> Sacro: pity
23:39:39  <Sacro> ooh
23:39:42  <Sacro> tis under the edit menu
23:42:48  <fjb> I guess I'm playing too much OpenTTD. I just wanted to unpause this channel using F1. :-)
23:45:07  <ln-> fjb: when you go walk out, do you imagine leveling holes in the street, and red text floating up in the air?
23:47:30  <glx> <Sacro> and shouldn't you use ++score, rather than score++ ? <-- they don't do exactly the same
23:48:06  <Sacro> yes i know
23:48:13  <Sacro> isn't one more efficient
23:48:19  <Sacro> which when using C# doesn't exactly mean much
23:48:25  <fjb> ln-: Not yet...
23:48:27  <fjb> :-)
23:49:21  <ln-> i did... once. :)
23:49:51  <ln-> it's not like i was hallucinating, but just thinking that "hmm, i could level that and it would cost some amount... no, wait, no."
23:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> <fjb> I guess I'm playing too much OpenTTD. I just wanted to unpause this channel using F1. :-) <- i do that all the time
23:55:09  <fjb> I often try to move the contents of a window with the right mouse button...
23:55:35  <fjb> And I dreamed of counting tiles.
23:58:30  <Sacro> so, ++foo or foo++?
23:59:42  <fjb> Sacro: What are you trying to do?
23:59:52  <Sacro> fjb: just increment a variable

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