Log for #openttd on 9th December 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:00  <SmatZ> Bjarni: he isn't here :)
00:00:16  <Ruud> Now if SpComb is gonna wake up
00:00:16  <Bjarni> you didn't say that it should be somebody in here
00:00:21  <Ruud> woudl be great
00:00:31  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i'm only 3rd semester :P <-- youngster
00:00:42  <Rubidium> SpComb is probably sleeping already
00:00:58  <Ruud> but what about the idea of generating graphics in game?
00:01:14  <Gonozal_VIII> even more cpu consuming?
00:01:32  <Bjarni> why would we want to use more CPU power?
00:01:34  <Gonozal_VIII> and ram...
00:01:34  <Ruud> since the images displayed are like 32x32 pixel images, rendering by the GPU wont take long
00:01:42  <Ruud> more GPU power
00:01:46  <Bjarni> instead of prerendering stuff
00:01:49  *** BigBB_ [] has quit [Quit: BigBB_]
00:01:59  <Ruud> any voodoo1+ graca would be able to render a simple industry
00:02:15  <Bjarni> Ruud: maybe we should start to use the GPU instead of making the CPU do all the work
00:02:19  * Rubidium doesn't think MorphOS's GPUs are capable of that
00:02:26  <Bjarni> that too
00:02:27  <Ruud> you can also cache the rendered stuf, since u need only one image
00:03:00  <Bjarni> why would you render stuff and then cache it instead of saving the cached stuff in a grf file and load that one?
00:03:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the sense of that...
00:03:10  <Ruud> and if one changes the viewing angle, these images are rerendered once for that viewing angle
00:03:12  <Rubidium> why render them in game when prerendering has exactly the same effect
00:03:30  <Ruud> change colors, apply zooming
00:03:49  <Ruud> apply different viewing angles
00:04:05  <Ruud> apply better lighting
00:04:06  <Bjarni> you mean that we should cache a vehicle in all the used company colours instead of just once?
00:04:09  <Rubidium> and how do you render animation sprites?
00:04:25  <Rubidium> and how would you have better lighting with 8 bits paletted colours?
00:04:35  <Ruud> dunno, these anim sprites are rendered by some tool? Then it can be done in-game also.
00:04:43  <Gonozal_VIII> there are no different angles... and if there will be then most likely only one for every direction which can be done easily with normal sprites
00:04:46  *** freepenguin [] has joined #openttd
00:04:53  <Ruud> since u can change the lighting on the rendering, it would be more dynamic
00:04:54  <Rubidium> animation -> palette animation
00:04:56  <Bjarni> we shouldn't have different angles
00:05:07  <Bjarni> the current one works great
00:05:17  <Bjarni> it would be way too much work to add another one
00:05:21  <Sacro> indeed
00:05:28  <Ruud> why not? it would be cool to change the map angly in predefined angles, like 45, 90, 180, 270 etc
00:05:39  <Bjarni> every single sprite would have to be redrawn
00:05:50  <Ruud> yes, which will be easy since they are generated
00:05:50  <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't need 3d graphics, only 4 sprites
00:05:53  <Rubidium> and that is a not-going-to-happen
00:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you do it ;)
00:06:27  <Rubidium> with the 'speed' at which the TTD sprites are 'replaced' by 32bpp sprites
00:06:29  <Ruud> I am just having the idea here, i hope you guys can shoot it off or improve/refine the idea
00:06:38  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I disagree with that statement. It's not enough to do it. It also have to be sane when it comes to resource usage
00:06:48  <Bjarni> ok
00:06:48  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:06:58  * Bjarni shoots Ruud's idea
00:06:59  <Bjarni> done
00:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the sprite redrawing
00:07:11  <Rubidium> I don't see the full set of sprites anytime in the century
00:07:18  <Ruud> first: resources are not a point. GPU's we hhave nowadays can render these easily
00:07:31  <Bjarni> Ruud: we aren't using the GPUs at all
00:07:37  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
00:07:39  *** freepenguin [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:07:44  <Bjarni> they speak GPU language the game does not
00:07:47  <Ruud> second: it will be easier for graphics designers to add graphics (no precaching)
00:08:01  <Ruud> So?
00:08:06  <Ruud> then we start using them!
00:08:09  <Ruud> :)
00:08:14  <Bjarni> how?
00:08:24  <Ruud> again: it is just the idea. oimplementation is second
00:08:26  <Bjarni> they aren't compatible with our graphics system
00:08:27  <Rubidium> Ruud: better start of a new game (from scratch) if you want to have 3d rendered graphics
00:08:38  <Ruud> My idea is easy to implement
00:08:43  <Bjarni> then do it
00:08:46  <Rubidium> as it won't be like TTD in a long shot
00:08:46  <Bjarni> yourself
00:08:55  <Ruud> since instead of getting the image from a file, the image is now gotten from an external libb which generates it
00:09:00  <Rubidium> Ruud: easy account to how many hours?
00:09:13  <Bjarni> 5000?
00:09:19  <Ruud> easy in the sense that it wont be hard to integrate in the current code
00:09:38  <Ruud> i didnt mean easy in: simple and trivial to do
00:09:39  <Ruud> :)
00:09:41  <Rubidium> then you know more about it then I do
00:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> have you even had a look at the current code?
00:09:53  <Ruud> yes
00:09:54  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no he has not
00:10:05  <Rubidium> or rather, if he has, he has lied
00:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Ruud: wrong answer
00:10:09  <Ruud> corerect me if i am wrong
00:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause> you are wrong
00:10:20  <Ruud> my reasoning is as following:
00:10:20  <Bjarni> Ruud: the correct answer was "no"
00:10:27  <Ruud> huh?
00:10:30  <Ruud> anyway
00:10:30  <Bjarni> this will be good
00:10:47  <Ruud> the game engine gets a GRF file, where a sprite is contained in
00:10:57  <Ruud> same is for the animated stuff
00:11:07  <Rubidium> palette animation!
00:11:15  <Ruud> instead of loading it from a file, it then loads it up from a library
00:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and this is supposed to improve what?
00:11:55  <Rubidium> redrawing the whole screen vs. changing a few bits in the palette
00:12:03  <Ruud> how do you mean?
00:12:13  <Ruud> just to get the picture right
00:12:14  <Rubidium> palette animation is easy and 'cheap'
00:12:29  <Bjarni> <Ruud> just to get the picture right <-- no
00:12:33  <Rubidium> when you use those rendered images, you have to redraw the WHOLE screen for every frame
00:12:42  <Ruud> I just proposed a different way to acquire the graphics data, not a different way of showing it
00:12:57  <Rubidium> so it is going to render images in the TTD palette
00:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause> again, what is this supposed to improve?
00:13:24  <Rubidium> I think that is going to cause some trouble with the 'rendering' of the lighting
00:13:43  <Ruud> graphics engine wants to render a tree --> requests tree sprite from 3D lib ->> 3D lib renders it in GPU in-memory as a sprite --> sends back to graphics engine --> renders sprite the same way it did
00:13:59  <Rubidium> Ruud: and now with palette animation
00:14:18  <Bjarni> GPUs prefer 32 bit graphics. We use 8 bit
00:14:52  <Ruud> better lighting (different lighting positions), possibility to change viewing angle, smooth zooming
00:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there is absolutely no sense in what you are suggesting
00:15:13  <Ruud> then onvert the 32bit to 8
00:15:28  <Bjarni> for every sprite?
00:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you still only have the same 8bit colours, there is not much you can do with "lighting"
00:15:34  <Gonozal_VIII> convert hardware?
00:15:46  <Rubidium> Ruud: and that then needs a human 'touch' to generate good looking graphics
00:15:53  <Rubidium> ask Pikkabird about it
00:15:58  <Ruud> sun is coming from N right now
00:16:09  <Ruud> then you would be able to simply have it from south
00:16:20  *** eJoJ [] has joined #openttd
00:16:21  <Ruud> lighting is applied right now in the game
00:16:31  <Bjarni> shadows are sprites
00:16:44  <Bjarni> not rendered at all
00:16:51  <Ruud> yes it is
00:17:01  <Bjarni> ...
00:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> this is both stupid and not going to work...
00:17:15  <Gonozal_VIII> the sun doesn't come from the south everywhere anyways
00:17:15  <Ruud> cuz if i want to make a new grf for something, i have to incorporate the fact where the sun is coming from in my graphics app
00:17:29  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: lies!
00:17:57  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: actually we get it from the south
00:17:59  <Gonozal_VIII> oh i forgot... the world is flat and the sun is static... sorry^^
00:18:14  <Bjarni> but that's not the issue here
00:18:16  <Ruud> SE actually :)
00:18:21  <Ruud> i looked wrong
00:18:31  <Bjarni> doesn't matter
00:18:40  <Bjarni> your idea will never work
00:18:45  <Bjarni> so stop talking about it
00:18:49  <Ruud> i dont have a clue what pallette animation is
00:18:54  <Gonozal_VIII> on the southern hemisphere, the sun is in the north at noon
00:18:55  <Ruud> why woudlnt it work?
00:19:06  <Bjarni> <Ruud> i dont have a clue what pallette animation is <-- we noticed
00:19:10  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: also wrong
00:19:27  <Bjarni> Rubidium: then you explain it
00:19:28  <Gonozal_VIII> wrong what why how :S
00:20:32  <Bjarni> stand on the centre of the South Pole during the summer (local summer). The sun will be in the direction of the North Pole, hence in north
00:20:39  <Rubidium> the sun 'moves' between approximately 23 degrees North and 23 degrees South
00:21:02  <Bjarni> Rubidium: we are north of that ;)
00:21:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i was only approximating...
00:21:15  <Bjarni> and if you are outside that then it's always in either north or south
00:21:29  <Bjarni> depending on your location
00:21:35  <Rubidium> so when the sun is at the 23 degrees South 'position', middle of summer on the southern hemisphere, everywhere north of that 23 degrees south will have the sun in the south
00:21:54  <Rubidium> Bjarni: unless the sun is straight above of you
00:22:05  <Ruud> i cant see how palette animation would be a problem for my idea (read articles about it)
00:22:19  <Gonozal_VIII> impossible rubidium
00:22:22  <SmatZ> Rubidium: you are even worse perfectionist than I am ... :-/
00:22:35  <Bjarni> if you are way north of 23° then the sun will never be in zenit
00:22:51  <Gonozal_VIII> the sun can't be directly above you when you're above 23° north or south
00:22:53  <Rubidium> how does the renderer know that piece of the model needs to be 'drawn' as palette animatable colour?
00:22:59  <Bjarni> perfectionism is great if used correctly
00:23:02  <Gonozal_VIII> ah...
00:23:16  <Rubidium> because in that case it must not do the lighting in some cases, but in other cases it should
00:24:14  <Gonozal_VIII> light should just always come from the same direction no matter what angle, much easier
00:24:24  <Ruud> that is for the designer to define. When designing an animation, that animation should be designed in 3D (f curz). Then you convert the 2D images to a 2D pallette animation
00:24:44  <Bjarni> (f curz)...
00:24:54  <Bjarni> scared of wearing our your keys?
00:25:04  <Gonozal_VIII> that way you can also reuse sprites for different sides of the same building
00:25:05  <Bjarni> you must have a really crappy keyboard if that can be an issue
00:25:35  <Gonozal_VIII> and you don't need to redraw every vehicle set...
00:25:39  <Ruud> look, if i am wrong please correct me.
00:25:50  * Bjarni corrects Ruud
00:26:06  <Rubidium> Ruud: please explain what YOU think palette animation is
00:26:12  <Ruud> yes. but since the graphics designers proably have already a 3D model, this wont be a big problem
00:26:33  <Gonozal_VIII> not necessarily
00:26:50  <Ruud> simply by changing the palette u animate a static image
00:26:51  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need 3d models to draw sprites
00:27:03  <Bjarni> all my attempts to draw sprites was in 2D
00:27:14  <Gonozal_VIII> also different artists use different model formats
00:27:27  <Ruud> i know
00:27:28  <Rubidium> now HOW do you define whether a part of a model needs to use those animation colours?
00:28:32  <Rubidium> and how do you prevent the GPU from applying the lighting stuff on those parts of the model, because if they get slightly changed due to for example a shadow, the color won't be matchable when converting to 8 bits colours
00:29:37  <Ruud>  now HOW do you define whether a part of a model needs to use those animation colours? --> i don't understand this, probably cuz of my limited palette anim knowledge
00:30:19  <Rubidium> somehow the 'designer' needs to tell what part of the model needs to use the palette animation colours, i.e. the colours that are actually animated
00:30:19  <Ruud> you dont want to prevent the gpu from doing that
00:30:40  <Rubidium> but then the palette animation will not work anymore in *any* shadow situation
00:30:43  <Ruud> and i dont know specifics about converting 32->8 bit
00:31:50  <Rubidium> so you claim something is easy when you don't even know how something needs to be implemented
00:31:53  <Bjarni> 32->8 is tricky as it converts RGB colours to palette. It's way easier (and faster) to convert 8 to 32 bit
00:31:54  <Ruud> how would we solve these problems?
00:32:03  <Bjarni> we don't
00:32:09  <Ruud> off course we do
00:32:13  <Bjarni> how?
00:32:32  <Ruud> i dont know yet, but i do know there is a solution
00:32:41  <Ruud> as there is always a solution for every tech problem
00:32:45  <Bjarni> yeah
00:32:49  <Ruud> in software de land
00:32:52  <Ruud> de=dev
00:32:54  <Bjarni> but is it fast enough for real time?
00:32:59  <Ruud> i think so
00:33:02  <Bjarni> I don't
00:33:14  * Sacro sighs
00:33:15  <Ruud> since these images only have to be rendered once
00:33:24  <Sacro> and cached?~
00:33:24  <Ruud> can be done even before game loads
00:33:29  <Gonozal_VIII> so again... why realtime, if you only need one (or four) images?
00:33:40  <Ruud> only things that affect the rendering need to be rerendered in-game
00:33:41  <Bjarni> but converting them from 32 bit to 8 bit is slower than the process you try to get rid of
00:33:48  * Rubidium thinks aqua regia is the best solution for this problem
00:33:56  <Belugas_Gone> with over 5000 sprites cached... brrrr...
00:34:02  <Ruud> which process i am trying to get rid off?
00:34:10  <Rubidium> Belugas_Gone: 5000? That way to low number
00:34:19  <Ruud> I am just trying to ADD a process, along with the exisiting one
00:34:24  <Ruud> never said it would replace it
00:34:24  <Bjarni> Ruud: loading grf sprites
00:34:28  <Rubidium> all vehicles sprites count at least 16 times
00:34:42  <Belugas_Gone> Rubidium : right... thus the over ;)
00:34:43  <Rubidium> and then at least 3 zoom levels
00:34:58  *** MDGrein [] has joined #openttd
00:35:02  <Ruud> i think there are not a lot of objects in the game
00:35:11  <Ruud> some vehicles, some trees, some buildings
00:35:12  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
00:35:26  <Rubidium> Ruud: keep thinking
00:35:27  <Ruud> nothing compared to what a modern FPS of objects have
00:35:41  <Ruud> which are rendered realtime
00:35:47  <Ruud> at least 30 times a second
00:36:03  <Ruud> with objects who are *way* more complex then, say an industrial station
00:36:15  <Rubidium> but then, a modern FPS doesn't run under MorphOS
00:36:24  <Ruud> :P
00:36:40  <Ruud> MorphOS doesnt support OpenGL?
00:36:49  <Rubidium> and a modern FPS would be totally unplayable on my laptop
00:37:01  <ln-> done watching TNG [x]
00:37:14  <Bjarni> <Ruud> MorphOS doesnt support OpenGL? <-- not really
00:37:29  <Ruud> MorhOS==some linux derivate>
00:37:30  <Ruud> ?
00:37:37  <Rubidium> lol
00:37:44  <Rubidium> an AmigaOS derivate
00:37:46  <Bjarni> also BeOS only supports software rendered OpenGL
00:37:55  <Bjarni> Ruud: you don't even know the platforms we support?
00:38:07  <Ruud> lol
00:38:25  <Ruud> no, i don't even know the platforms we support ;)
00:38:27  <Rubidium> and OS2 doesn't support OpenGL either I think
00:38:46  <Ruud> but it can be optional
00:38:47  <Bjarni> I worked on making the game work on MorphOS long before you even heard of our game
00:38:54  <Bjarni> possibly years before you heard about it
00:38:55  <Ruud> I mean, it can just be a setting like right now
00:39:06  <Bjarni> ...
00:39:16  <Ruud> if u dont have opengl, then good ol' prerendered sprites are used :)
00:39:44  <Bjarni> well.. mainly to kai worked on MorphOS, but we did talk a whole lot about it
00:39:47  *** Progman [] has quit [Quit: Progman]
00:39:54  <Ruud> if u do have opengl, then u have some extra graphics feats :)
00:40:01  <ln-> Rubidium: i think Warp 4 has support for OpenGL.
00:40:02  <Bjarni> we aren't going to have two graphic rendering systems
00:40:05  <Ruud> why did u do it?
00:40:14  <Bjarni> because I could :)
00:40:16  <Ruud> it is not a different graphic rendering systenm
00:40:23  <Bjarni> and I had just finished the OSX port
00:40:28  <Ruud> it is a different way to acquire the graphic data
00:40:43  <Gonozal_VIII> your idea would require all grf developers to use the same 3d graphics program
00:40:45  <Ruud> graphics are rendered in the same way, using efficient, fast C code :)
00:40:50  <Ruud> why?
00:41:00  <Bjarni> Ruud: if the displayed graphics are the same then there is no need to do so. If they aren't then you are rendering something else, right?
00:41:13  <Ruud> the 3D lib can be programmed to accept different types of 3D models?
00:41:37  <Ruud> the displayed graphics, at first, are the same
00:41:52  <Ruud> later you might add features which can be added cuz of the 3D rendering
00:41:55  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of work to get it to support all and keep it up to date
00:42:00  <Ruud> i know
00:42:11  <Rubidium> well... first make sure that there is a decent set of models (i.e. one that includes all graphics) before we even start to consider it
00:42:22  <Ruud> isnt one there?
00:42:27  <Rubidium> well... NO
00:42:41  <Ruud> what do yo mean exaclty with that>
00:42:43  <Ruud> ?
00:42:48  <Ruud> "decent set of models"
00:42:58  <Rubidium> one that includes all graphics
00:43:08  <Ruud> ah off course
00:43:13  <Rubidium> and not only a few
00:43:23  <Ruud> thats why an ottd install still needs the ttdlx install dir :)
00:43:46  <Gonozal_VIII> usually the sprites aren't drawn in 3d, except the 32bpp
00:43:47  <Rubidium> yes, because it used TTD's graphics
00:44:04  <Rubidium> and for 32bpp there are only a few sprites that are done
00:44:12  <Ruud> so 32bpp sprites ARE possible?
00:44:18  <Rubidium> not even 5%
00:44:31  <Gonozal_VIII> are possible and exist
00:44:46  <Ruud> then i do not understand the problem with the 8 bit thingie?
00:44:47  <Rubidium> but at quite a performance disadvantage
00:45:15  <Ruud> ah, so rendering a whole 2Kx2K map is quite harsh?
00:45:16  <Rubidium> Ruud: you still needs stuff for palette animation
00:45:18  <SpComb> hmm
00:45:25  <Ruud> SpComb!
00:45:30  <Ruud> you are alive!
00:45:34  <Ruud> sorry
00:45:44  <Rubidium> no, it's his both saying hmm every now and then
00:45:45  <Ruud> I have a question
00:45:48  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
00:45:48  <Rubidium> !logs
00:45:52  <Rubidium> see, it's a bot!
00:46:02  <Ruud> ah
00:46:06  <Ruud> lol
00:46:09  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
00:46:12  <SpComb> pong indeed
00:46:17  <SpComb> I was offline
00:46:18  <Ruud> lol
00:46:30  <SpComb> ask away
00:46:46  <Ruud> u created some neat webcam thingie
00:47:10  <Ruud> i created a google-maps style webcomponent to view savegames in a browser
00:47:25  <Gonozal_VIII> rat watch thing or what do you mean?
00:47:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ah that
00:47:36  <Gonozal_VIII> webcam...
00:47:39  <Gonozal_VIII> not webcam^^
00:47:42  <SpComb> savegames? It works already?
00:47:51  <Ruud> yes, have a screencast demo
00:47:58  <SpComb> url to it?
00:48:05  <Ruud> written in JS+HTTML+CSS
00:48:14  <Ruud> somewhere on RS, hold on
00:48:16  <Ruud> 50meg file
00:48:27  <SpComb> it's not online anywhere?
00:48:40  <Ruud> yes
00:48:41  <Ruud>
00:48:48  <Ruud> RS=RapidShare
00:48:56  <Ruud> u using windows?
00:49:11  <Bjarni> no
00:49:13  <Ruud> my question is
00:49:24  <Bjarni> windows is for people who don't know what a real computer OS is
00:49:29  <Ruud> (need to explain problem first)
00:49:33  <SpComb> a Shockwave flash that renders an OpenTTD savegame?
00:49:40  <Ruud> no
00:49:54  <Ruud> javascript code that displays images google-maps style
00:50:10  <Ruud> with some CSS+HTML for eyecandy
00:50:11  <SpComb> you're confusing me slightly
00:50:16  * Rubidium doesn't like the google-maps style
00:50:22  <Gonozal_VIII> swf is flash
00:50:23  <SpComb> what's the sc.swf that you linked to?
00:50:28  <Ruud> it is a screencast
00:50:29  <SpComb> oh right, it's a video of it?
00:50:32  <Ruud> yes
00:50:45  <Ruud> cuz my router died, my server isnt connected to the web
00:51:16  <Ruud> for some reason my webserver on my client wont server to the outside world
00:51:26  <Ruud> the way it works right now
00:51:35  <SpComb> it's downloading. What was the question that you wanted to ask, then?
00:51:50  <Rubidium> ofcourse not, it's not on your local network... so nobody can access it; default MS policy
00:51:52  <Ruud> is a savegame is screenshotted, creating a huge (hundreds of megapixel) image
00:52:13  <Ruud> it should, but its a story ill explain later
00:52:27  <Ruud> the huge image then is sliced up in 256x256 btmaps
00:52:36  <Ruud> which are served using javascript to the browser
00:52:42  <Ruud> now it would be neat
00:52:54  <Rubidium> and randomly an image is shown of the wrong zoom level
00:53:02  <Ruud> to have a library/openttd forkish software to generate the image from he savegame in realtime
00:53:58  <Ruud> cuz now i have to make a screenshot, shrink it x times (where x= number of zoom levels) then slice all images into smaller squares
00:54:16  <Ruud> which is not only CPU consuming, but also space consuming
00:54:36  <Rubidium> Ruud: you can do everything except the zooming already using pipes
00:54:57  <Ruud> what/how do you mean? "do everything"?
00:54:59  <Sacro> libttd?
00:55:03  <SpComb> you can script my current code to have OpenTTD load the savegame, and then just use my webcam thing as-is
00:55:14  <SpComb> Sacro: that's what I'm writing, kind of. A binary API inside OpenTTD
00:55:24  <Ruud> thats what im looking for :)
00:55:35  <SpComb> you've seen ?
00:55:37  <Rubidium> would a binary API be needed?
00:55:40  <Ruud> the ideal situation would be to have a function like
00:55:51  <Sacro> SpComb: indeed
00:55:54  <Rubidium> just use the screenshot and savegame load commands from the dedicated server
00:56:20  <SpComb> Rubidium: wouldn't work for my webcam thing
00:56:25  <Rubidium> hmm, but Ruud doesn't like that because would be a 25+ year old design that hasn't changed a bit
00:56:26  <Ruud> GetSquareFromSavegame(string filename, int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, ImageType type)
00:56:28  <Rubidium> SpComb: why not?
00:56:41  <Ruud> Rubidium, that is not fair
00:57:07  <SpComb>
00:57:27  <Ruud> the dev.myottd link is dead
00:57:35  <SpComb> Ruud: I just started it up
00:57:52  <Ruud> ok
00:58:01  <SpComb> my current issue is that I have some bug with my code and the OpenTTD viewport/screenshot code, it crashes if you try and make a screenshot with half a sign
00:58:49  <SpComb> Ruud: do you want the savegame to be paused, or running in real-time?
00:58:50  <Ruud> that code i looked into in the svn tree
00:58:57  <Ruud> paused
00:59:01  <Ruud> but doesnt matter much
00:59:24  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:59:36  <Ruud> I think I will also implement timeshifting
00:59:50  <Ruud> a slider where the user can change the time of the savegame
01:00:09  <Ruud> (in that case u would need multiple savegames off course)
01:00:26  *** a1270 [] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....]
01:00:28  <SpComb> paused makes a huge difference, you can cache it
01:00:39  <Ruud> right
01:00:41  <SpComb> one of my biggest issues is that you can't cache anything - lots of load on the server
01:01:01  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm command log :-)
01:01:16  <Ruud> in other words: u cant make a copy of the game graphics, fire a new thread, and then genreate the image?
01:01:38  <SpComb> not sure what you mean with that, what do you need a thread for?
01:01:55  <Ruud> nvm, i messed up with a prev discussion
01:02:15  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
01:02:27  <Ruud> anyway, looking to that code it seems not to be very hard to create some kind of lib to generate images from savegames?
01:02:39  <SpComb> nope
01:02:55  <SpComb> you need to add an API function to load a savegame, pause it, and then start grabbing screenshots from it
01:03:03  <Ruud> right
01:03:18  <Ruud> never fought with c++
01:03:31  *** a1270 [] has joined #openttd
01:03:38  <Ruud> will try though, i know c# quite well
01:03:47  <SpComb> the HTTP server is written in Python:
01:04:05  <Ruud> okay
01:04:05  <SpComb> and then the JS code:
01:04:14  <Gonozal_VIII> generate a savegame every month and log commands between them, then the important things like rail layout changes can be watched while stuff like tree growth doesn't need to be stored :-)
01:04:35  <SpComb> and then the python code to interact with OpenTTD:
01:05:11  <Ruud> thats just loading an external dll and fire some functions in it
01:05:19  <Ruud> sounds pretty straightforward
01:05:20  <SpComb> the stuff is under active development, so I'm interested in working together with anyone else on it
01:05:44  <Ruud> okay
01:06:05  <Ruud> are u interested in creating/helping create such a tool?
01:06:43  <SpComb> spec it out a little bit more specifically. Would the user upload a .sav, and then be able to look at it? Some kind of directory of them?
01:07:10  <SpComb> my main goal is MyOTTD - the webcam thing is kind of me getting sidetracked a bit to create something cool :)
01:07:26  <Ruud> very simplistic
01:07:42  <Ruud> an openttd server just uploads savegames to a webdir
01:07:43  <Rubidium> Brianetta's webcam worked without and fancy changes to OpenTTD itself
01:07:52  <Rubidium> s/and/any/
01:08:19  <Ruud> on the website, a new item in the list of savegames appears
01:08:20  <SpComb> Rubidium: you can't compare it with the one (although it's slightly questionable what purpose it serves)
01:08:39  <Ruud> user clicks on savegame, wants to see it in the browser
01:08:48  <Ruud> then browser reqs some images
01:08:50  <SpComb> Rubidium: modifying the code in OpenTTD opens up a whole new world of possibilities. I was aware that people would complain, but I don't agree
01:09:04  <SpComb> right, I recall you saying that this was for openttdcoop?
01:09:08  <Ruud> webserver opens ottd dll, reqs the image from the savegame
01:09:14  <Ruud> sends to user
01:09:16  <Ruud> voila
01:09:18  <Rubidium> SpComb: I have no problem with people modifying the code
01:09:57  <Ruud> now when the image is requested, a function on the dll is called like mentioned before
01:10:11  <Rubidium> the 'only' problem with it is that most people want 'support' from the OpenTTD developers
01:10:14  <SpComb> Ruud: the way that would work for me is that it creates a new OpenTTD process, loads the savegame into it, pauses it, and then starts serving up screenshot tiles from it
01:10:20  <Ruud> the script on the website handles the "which savegame to get" logic
01:10:41  <Rubidium> and especially OpenTTDCoop's so-called desyncs start to get annoying
01:10:43  <Ruud> right, exactly the way I thought it probably should work
01:10:58  <Ruud> *would*
01:11:00  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:11:17  <Ruud> the function also needs a parameter zoomlevel
01:11:20  <SpComb> I'd be interested in writing the OpenTTD-side code, and the Python code for it as well
01:11:28  <Ruud> very cool!
01:11:34  <SpComb> my webcam handles zoom levels
01:12:00  <Ruud> All I need is a function in an external DLL with a signature of:
01:12:42  <Ruud> GetSquareFromSavegame(string filename, int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, int zoomlevel)
01:12:52  <SpComb> define: DLL. What software environment would it run under?
01:13:05  <Ruud> i use VS2005/.NET
01:13:35  <SpComb> I only do linux C and Python
01:13:55  <Ruud> but i guess a custom written webserver shich just serves the images would be sufficient too
01:14:12  <Ruud> cuz oin the end, the image loaded is just a url
01:14:42  <SpComb> indeed
01:14:53  <Ruud> which then can be something like etc following the signature
01:15:04  <Ruud> or some other implemetation
01:15:53  <Ruud> and all the functionality is just javscript code, so that will work with any AJAX environment
01:16:15  <Ruud> Cuz it also needs other information, i plan to add a window holding savegame info
01:16:28  <Ruud> company info etc
01:16:31  <SpComb>
01:16:32  <Ruud> but that is only later
01:16:53  <Ruud> first thing to have finished is the zooming, viewing & panning of the component
01:16:58  <SpComb> the webcam has a list of vehicles, but it's normally not very noticeable because there's no vehicles in the game
01:17:12  <Ruud> once that works reliably, fast & cross browser then i will add things
01:17:23  <Ruud> hehe
01:18:02  <SpComb> I already have working zoom/scrolling, it's pretty cross-browser, realiable, although the way I implemented focus-zoom has caused some performance hits, but those are easily fixed, not fundamental problems
01:18:19  <Ruud> wow
01:18:43  <SpComb> have you tried using ?
01:19:18  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
01:20:05  <Ruud> works quite well
01:20:09  <Ruud> nice work!
01:20:22  <Ruud> though wouldnt work on IE & opera
01:21:38  <Ruud> well, it seems my work was redundant :)
01:22:23  <SpComb> most of the code uses PrototypeJS, there's just some induvidual Mozillaizms
01:22:47  <SpComb> I haven't really tested it in non-mozilla browsers, although a couple friends of mine that use Konqueror haven't complained too much
01:23:09  <Ruud> k
01:23:17  <Ruud> i was planning on using moo.fx
01:23:34  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:24:28  <Ruud> great. This will be a very nice addition to websites like or
01:25:01  <SpComb> I haven't really thought the actual use-cases through that much, just concentrated on getting it to work, since it's cool and fun to write :)
01:25:09  <Ruud> it stutters when i zoom out though
01:25:59  <Ruud>  i would imagine that when there is a link on those websites, there can salso be a link "preview sceanrio/savegame"
01:26:03  <SpComb> currently it always has all four zoom layers visible, z-indexed on top of eachother, it makes firefox have to resample the images a lot, which is slow
01:26:17  <Ruud> ok
01:26:23  <SpComb> but that can be fixed by only showing two layers at a time, and only showing one after zoom is done
01:26:39  <Ruud> simply setting the visible property false on the other layers would help?
01:26:49  <Ruud> ^^
01:26:54  <Ruud> :)
01:28:03  <SpComb> yeah, hiding the other layers gets rid of the latency
01:28:19  <SpComb> I only need to figure out how to tell when all the images have loaded and the zoom is complete, then I can hide the other layers again
01:28:35  <Ruud> some kind of DOM event, i think
01:28:37  <Ruud> anyway
01:28:47  <SpComb> currently if you scroll around, it will show you blown up previous zoom levels before the current zoom level loads - google maps doesn't work like that
01:28:54  <Ruud> how can we join forces efficiently?
01:29:44  <Ruud> googlemaps *used* to work like that, i am sure.
01:29:58  <Ruud> i was thinking on adding preloading logic
01:30:10  <Ruud> so the surrounding area is already loaded when the user pans to it
01:30:22  <Ruud> so delays are less
01:30:26  <Ruud> when panning
01:31:06  <SpComb> entirely possible, but there's a couple bigger issues to fix first
01:31:11  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
01:31:20  <SpComb> I've registered #myottd - perhaps we shouldn't flood this channel too badly
01:31:26  <Ruud> k
01:31:50  <Ruud> --> swith
01:34:25  <shodan> strange question, but can anyone read music here? and if so...
01:34:26  <shodan> what classic video game is this music from?
01:35:34  <shodan> wow, myottd looks good
01:36:02  <SpComb> or Former's slightly stale, latter is something interesting
01:36:45  <shodan> dev :)
01:37:40  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:37:41  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:38:09  <SpComb> then I agree :)
01:45:56  <Sacro> shodan: go on
01:46:27  * Sacro is lacking a keyboard
01:49:57  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
01:50:38  *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC
01:54:01  *** G [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:56:03  *** G [] has joined #openttd
01:57:40  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Zzz]
02:11:23  *** glx|away is now known as glx
02:15:11  *** glx is now known as glx_
02:20:13  *** toet [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:24:28  *** jthill [] has joined #openttd
02:36:03  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:37:04  *** glx_ is now known as glx
02:56:18  *** Rexxars [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:58:32  *** Rexxars [] has joined #openttd
02:58:57  <Smoovious> shodan... well, I can read  the music, but it doesn't ring a bell, sorry
03:05:08  *** Osai^zZz [] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz]
03:20:04  *** TheJosh [] has joined #openttd
03:20:09  <TheJosh> hey all
03:20:32  <MDGrein> anyone awake?
03:20:59  <TheJosh> hey i had a few ideas for patches. can u give me thoughts so I can deside if I should code em or not?
03:22:23  *** Ammller [] has joined #openttd
03:23:04  <TheJosh> one patch would be an improved way to upgrade tracks, where you specify the old track -> new track, and the old trains -> new trains. Then you send all to depo, you click the button, it upgrades all the lines and changes the trains
03:23:16  <TheJosh> fairly complex patch though; tricky
03:24:19  <TheJosh> another idea was a simple programming interface available to scenario editors, a system of triggers. each trigger would have one or more conditions, which would all have to match, and if they did then one or more specified actions would be executed
03:24:46  <MDGrein> like the starcraft/warcraft 3 triggers
03:24:47  <TheJosh> simple scripting system, allowing end conditions in scenarios, as well as other clever stuff
03:25:07  <TheJosh> my ideas are based on the starcraft triggers because they are much simpler
03:25:12  <MDGrein> yeah
03:25:15  <MDGrein> prefer them aswell
03:25:40  <TheJosh> the full on scripting in war3 is cool, lots of power but too confusing
03:26:07  <TheJosh> whats your thoughts?
03:26:18  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:26:18  <MDGrein> would be a nice contrubution
03:26:41  <MDGrein> would make the scenarios more "alive"
03:27:06  <TheJosh> if done well
03:27:12  <MDGrein> yeah...
03:29:37  <TheJosh> i was going to have the conditions be things like money, points. with greater than, less than, etc.
03:29:52  <TheJosh> number trains/road/aircraft/ships/total
03:30:40  <TheJosh> and then have the actions as all the the DoCommand2 actions
03:33:42  <TheJosh> thanks for your input
03:44:09  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:04:50  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
04:06:30  *** Ruud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:09:11  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
04:16:34  *** TheJosh [] has left #openttd []
04:17:23  *** AntB [] has quit [Quit: have you seen the time?!]
04:19:03  *** Netsplit <-> quits: egladil
04:23:47  *** Netsplit over, joins: egladil
04:30:26  *** Osai [] has quit [Quit: Osai]
04:48:32  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
04:50:13  *** divoafx [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
04:53:31  *** Ammller [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:05:56  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
05:43:25  *** a1270 [] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....]
05:50:10  *** a1270 [] has joined #openttd
06:58:27  *** TheJosh [] has joined #openttd
06:58:34  <TheJosh> hey
07:00:43  <TheJosh> whats peoples thoughts on a patch that would allow a trigger system to be set up for a scenario, so that actions can be fired when events happen? kinda like starcraft
07:01:27  <TheJosh> 1 ore more conditions which all have to be met, and one or more actions (probably DoCommands) which happen one after another
07:05:18  <TheJosh> ung, no one is even here are they
07:05:20  *** TheJosh [] has left #openttd []
07:17:00  *** Alltaken [] has joined #openttd
07:31:15  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:33:14  *** Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
07:33:54  *** McHawk [] has joined #openttd
08:54:08  *** Alltaken [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
08:57:30  *** toet [] has joined #openttd
09:00:23  *** BiA|pavel-css [] has joined #openttd
09:00:27  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
09:29:22  *** G_ [] has joined #openttd
09:31:07  *** G [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:33:11  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
09:58:03  *** McHawk [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:16:39  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
10:25:15  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:27:27  *** LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
10:38:33  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
10:42:10  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
10:46:46  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has joined #openttd
10:48:00  <Wolf01> hello
10:48:35  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
10:49:39  <BiA|pavel-css> servers
10:49:49  <BiA|pavel-css> !servers
10:49:58  <BiA|pavel-css> !nightly
10:50:07  <BiA|pavel-css> !wiki
10:50:22  <BiA|pavel-css> does anythink work over here? ^^
10:50:26  <BiA|pavel-css> !password
10:51:59  <hylje> no
10:52:00  <hylje> :P
10:54:16  *** Rexxars [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:58:57  *** Rexxars [] has joined #openttd
11:12:31  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
11:13:23  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:21:55  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:21:55  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:23:06  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
11:24:20  *** elmex [] has joined #openttd
11:27:55  *** elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:30:01  *** elmex [] has joined #openttd
11:32:17  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
11:36:02  *** G_ is now known as G
11:40:40  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
11:43:34  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
11:47:07  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
11:47:10  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
11:53:03  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
12:02:05  *** prakti [] has joined #openttd
12:04:09  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
12:04:22  *** SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
12:04:49  <SmatZ> hello
12:06:20  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
12:06:50  <Bjarni> hello SmatZ
12:07:33  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
12:09:11  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
12:13:57  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:13:57  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
12:14:36  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
12:14:47  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
12:14:58  <fjb> Moin
12:16:07  <BiA|pavel-css> hi SmatZ :)
12:24:42  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:26:56  *** Ploes [] has joined #openttd
12:27:13  <Ploes> morning all
12:27:22  <Ploes> any mods on the TT-Forms site about?
12:30:39  <Ploes> well NR12 is posting randomly rude stuff again and there are no mods about! Please let them know if one turns up
12:30:43  *** Ploes [] has quit []
12:30:58  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
12:32:02  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
12:34:46  *** DaleStan__ [] has joined #openttd
12:35:09  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:35:15  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
12:37:22  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:41:54  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
12:42:02  *** DaleStan_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:43:47  *** Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
13:03:19  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
13:04:44  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
13:06:40  *** Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
13:10:38  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:13:12  *** divoafx [] has joined #openttd
13:19:58  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:22:09  *** Smoovious [] has joined #openttd
13:22:58  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
13:43:21  *** shodan [] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting]
13:56:16  *** michi_cc [] has quit [Quit: michi_cc]
14:00:44  *** Greyscale [] has joined #openttd
14:03:34  *** LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
14:11:11  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:11:14  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:23:33  *** LordAzamath [] has quit [Quit: Kopete 0.12.5 :]
14:23:51  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
14:25:23  *** Greyscale [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:25:29  *** Grey [] has joined #openttd
14:29:24  <Bjarni> <--- wtf... Donald Duck as a music pirate (in Dutch)... apparently they just printed this in NL
14:30:42  <Bjarni> back when I read Donald Duck magazines they went treasure hunting and had a fight with the guy next door and stuff like that
14:31:04  <fjb> Music pirats are the badest criminals on earth. Didn't you know?
14:31:19  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:32:05  <Sacro> morning
14:32:07  <Bjarni> I didn't know that it was Scrooge McDuck who were behind the music industry
14:32:20  <Bjarni> but it sure sounds like him to sue people for every penny they got
14:32:22  <fjb> Moin Sacro
14:32:45  <fjb> :-)
14:33:05  *** G [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:33:23  <Bjarni> well... Donald Duck was used as war propaganda during WW2
14:33:41  <Bjarni> I wonder if somebody is using him again
14:34:04  <Bjarni> did you guys read the story?
14:34:09  <fjb> The music industry makes a lot of propaganda.
14:34:19  *** G [] has joined #openttd
14:34:30  <Bjarni> Let ook op de woorden in captial: \"GEDOWNLOAD\", \"RECHTEN\"
14:36:23  *** michi_cc [] has joined #openttd
14:36:26  *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
14:36:29  *** Grey [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:37:28  * Bjarni wonders why nobody said anything about the story being in Dutch
14:39:39  <Bjarni> since nobody complained then I presume that everybody can read it
14:40:07  <Tefad> popeye too
14:40:19  <Tefad> and good ol' bugs
14:40:48  <Bjarni> yeah... USA used everything in their propaganda
14:41:08  <Bjarni> "The spirit of '42" (or was it '43)
14:41:16  <Bjarni> buy war bonds
14:42:06  <Bjarni> every single dollar spent on (pleasure, but they used a different word) is a dollar spent on the Axis
14:42:35  <Bjarni> the door to the bar turned into a swastika and stuff like that
14:42:43  <fjb> Bjarni: That story is not hard to understand, even in Dutch.
14:42:57  <Bjarni> fjb: agreed :)
14:43:30  <Bjarni> Dutch isn't that hard to understand when reading it. It's somewhat more tricky to understand their speech
14:43:48  <fjb> Where is my red marker? Bjarni is agreeing with me.
14:44:39  <Bjarni> Dutch is kind of like a mix of Danish, German and English. Knowing all 3 of them makes it possible to read even though I never tried to learn Dutch
14:44:47  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:44:59  <Bjarni> fjb: red? RED?
14:45:05  <Bjarni> red is the colour of a mistake
14:45:17  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
14:45:18  <Bjarni> and do you claim me to be mistaken?
14:45:31  <Sacro> yes
14:45:33  <Sacro> always
14:45:41  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [wrong answer]
14:45:53  <Tefad> what's up with that one
14:46:22  <Bjarni> with the DD comic?
14:46:31  <Tefad> sacro.
14:46:35  <Bjarni> ahh
14:46:42  <Bjarni> that's a better question
14:46:46  <Bjarni> I wish I knew the answer
14:47:04  <Bjarni> then I would get the Nobel price in psychiatry
14:47:17  <Tefad> if there was one
14:47:20  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:47:22  <Sacro> oh well
14:47:24  <Bjarni> they would make it
14:47:24  * Sacro fail
14:47:29  <fjb> Bjarni: Knowing german and English is all you need to read Dutch.
14:47:31  <Tefad> appears so
14:48:05  <Bjarni> fjb: sometimes Danish words shows up
14:48:15  <Bjarni> but yes I guess you can do without it
14:48:38  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
14:50:50  <LeviathNL>
14:51:47  <Bjarni> I like how they consider the song texts to be worth €20
14:52:32  <Bjarni> so it was '43 :)
14:52:57  <Bjarni> I don't know if it's downright banned but they never showed it here
14:54:04  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:54:18  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
14:55:03  <Sacro> Bjarni: wtf did you use before 20?
14:55:25  <Sacro> i got a with caret ,¬
14:55:41  <Bjarni> ohh... "Der Fuehrer's Face". That one is not that close to reality either
14:55:44  <Bjarni> Sacro: €
14:55:52  *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@] has joined #openttd
14:55:58  <Sacro> Bjarni: what name doth it go  by?
14:56:05  * Bjarni slaps Sacro with an UTF-8 encoding
14:56:16  <Bjarni> Sacro: Euro
14:57:02  <Sacro> ooh
14:57:03  <Sacro> fix'd
14:57:10  <Bjarni> test €
14:57:27  <fjb> Bjarni: Give me some more ?. :-)
14:57:42  <Sacro> working under irrsi in putty
14:58:16  <Tefad> working under irssi in xterm here
14:58:43  <Sacro> send me another
14:59:19  <fjb> ?
14:59:35  <Sacro> no, thats a question mark
14:59:46  <Sacro> i hope
14:59:46  <fjb> That's an Omega.
14:59:58  <Sacro> really?
15:00:10  <Tefad> 䜠的母亲是䞀䞪仓éŒ
15:00:14  <fjb> Yes. Ask Bjarni.
15:00:20  <Tefad> it's a question mark here too
15:00:28  <Sacro> Tefad: that's just squares
15:00:40  <Sacro> fjb: as you may not have noticed, i don't actually trust Bjarni
15:01:05  <fjb> Who trusts Bjarni, or better, who trusts you?
15:01:20  <Tefad> this is omega: Ω
15:01:44  <fjb> Yes, that is also an Omega.
15:01:54  <Tefad> what you typed was a question mark.
15:02:38  <Tefad> you've typed two odly placed question marks so far
15:02:47  <fjb> I typed an Omega. Some characters have more than one Unicode encoding.
15:02:58  <Sacro> ОМЎееЎ
15:03:04  <Tefad> cyrillic : )
15:03:23  <Tefad> indeed?
15:03:27  <fjb> Yes, but sadly I never learned cyrillic.
15:03:46  <Tefad> neither did i
15:03:56  <Sacro> me neiether
15:03:59  <Tefad> i have picked up on a few of the letter sounds though
15:04:11  <Sacro> ᑊᓱᐅᒡᔅ ᑊᓯᔅ ᐃᔅ ᑉᕐeᑊᑊᔟ
15:04:41  <Tefad> all i get is the e : \
15:05:35  <fjb> Hm, hard to describe what is is. Some curves, two triangles, an e and some other things.
15:05:56  <Sacro> fjb: what font?
15:05:58  <Tefad> fjb: i think your target encoding is wrong
15:06:24  <Tefad> if you're using mIRC i've had bad experiences with gettings its config proprly set
15:06:36  <Tefad> gettings? getting.
15:08:09  <fjb> Hm, that is just called Sans Serif. I will try to find out who did that font.
15:08:26  <Tefad> i use efont
15:11:53  *** Diabolic1Angel [] has joined #openttd
15:11:53  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:12:44  <Bjarni> back
15:13:43  *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:13:51  <fjb> front
15:14:03  <Bjarni> <Tefad> 䜠的母亲是䞀䞪仓錠 <-- what are you trying to say?
15:14:14  <fjb> ??
15:14:23  <Bjarni> ¿¿
15:14:34  <Bjarni> mirror, mirror on the wall...
15:14:50  <fjb> Bjarni: two australian question marks.
15:15:08  <Bjarni> actually they are Spanish
15:15:17  <fjb> :-)
15:15:28  <Bjarni> hmm
15:15:34  <Bjarni> ¿ = gone fishing
15:15:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11605 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1482, FS#1523]: wrong count of Kirby trains when a ship was build.
15:16:04  <fjb> :-)
15:16:21  <fjb> Oh Rubidium found it.
15:18:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11606 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp stdafx.h): -Revert (r11584): since FS#1482 is solved, we do not need the extra checking and such anymore.
15:19:49  <BiA|pavel-css> what's FS#1482 or any number? :)
15:20:25  <Rubidium> technobabble
15:21:24  *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@] has joined #openttd
15:21:26  <BiA|pavel-css> :) can i see somewhere what's hidden under it?
15:21:46  <Rubidium> yes
15:22:04  * glx points BiA|pavel-css to
15:23:39  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
15:24:44  <LeviathNL> FS#1482 = FlySpray  task-id 1482
15:24:59  <LeviathNL> =
15:25:13  *** DaleStan__ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:25:26  <fjb> Rubidium: What was the problem with FS#1482, FS#1523?
15:27:51  <Bjarni> read the diff like the rest of us ;)
15:28:16  <fjb> :-P
15:30:16  <BiA|pavel-css> :)
15:31:45  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
15:31:54  <skidd13> Hi
15:33:41  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
15:33:45  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
15:56:38  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:58:25  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
15:58:25  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
16:09:54  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:19:22  *** Mark [] has joined #openttd
16:54:34  *** LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
16:56:33  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
17:05:06  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
17:07:34  *** divoafx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08:07  *** divoafx [~asd@] has joined #openttd
17:08:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11607 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
17:08:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enumify the industry widgets
17:08:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Enable doubleclick in the found new industries window to build an industries
17:18:05  *** divoafx [~asd@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:19:34  *** divoafx [] has joined #openttd
17:23:09  *** skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt]
17:24:13  <BiA|pavel-css> hey glx yesterday when you left ..... :)
17:30:14  *** BigBB [] has joined #openttd
17:38:27  <LeviathNL> Wolf01, any progress on brickland?
17:41:50  *** Farden [] has joined #openttd
17:43:33  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
17:48:09  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:14:17  <Rubidium> DaleStan, about random action 2: under what circumstances should these actions be called for industry (tiles)? From the documentation I understand that you always call the action for all industry tiles and the industry like you do for any callback, but it seems like that does not work as intended.
18:15:57  <DaleStan> Rubidium: What do you mean by "called"?
18:17:06  <Rubidium> that when the game 'triggers' one of the events described in the NewGRF spec you 'call' the action2 "stack"
18:19:57  <Rubidium> for example: when I get the '256' tick trigger, what of the NewGRF do I have to 'call' (interpret). Only the action 2s for the industry's tiles or also the action 2s for the industry itself?
18:21:11  <DaleStan> OK. When a trigger happens (for any feature), you process the action 2s for that item (and only that item). If/when a random 2 is hit that requests re-randomization based on that trigger, then the specified bits are randomized.
18:23:10  <Rubidium> ok, so the action 2s of the industry are never called in the realm of random action 2? (There is a 'definition' of the Industries as feature, but there are no triggers associated with it)
18:23:12  <DaleStan> So industries, with no triggers, would never have their action 2 stack queried for re-randomization, but it is (AIUI) possible/valid to put random 2s in there, with the bits randomized either on construction only, or when the industry's tiles have a type 83 random.
18:24:09  <DaleStan> (Since industry-tile-83-random queries/modifies the same bits as industry-80-random queries.)
18:25:10  *** |Bastiaan| [] has joined #openttd
18:26:18  <Rubidium> okay, that clears some things up. Thanks a lot
18:28:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11608 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: do not trigger industries, but only the industry's tiles.
18:29:08  *** |Bastiaan| [] has quit []
18:32:05  *** BigBB [] has quit [Quit: BigBB]
18:36:10  *** G_ [] has joined #openttd
18:37:57  *** G [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:51:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11609 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1524]: wrong error messages were shown when trying to build some industries in the scenario editor.
18:58:43  <Gonozal_VIII> did the forum just switch to arctic climate :S
19:10:56  <SpComb> yeah
19:11:04  <SpComb> just wait for easter, and they'll go into toyland mode
19:11:57  <BiA|pavel-css> :)
19:12:53  *** Gonozal_VIII_ [] has joined #openttd
19:14:12  <Gonozal_VIII_> does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip?
19:14:29  <Gonozal_VIII_> that sucks...
19:14:45  <fjb> My isp does so every 24 hours.
19:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> 8h is insane...
19:16:00  <BiA|pavel-css> my server sux, my pc sux, i sux :(
19:16:29  <Gonozal_VIII_> no
19:17:00  <BiA|pavel-css> today, its correctly recieveing and sending packets, but ... ms dont see me even when server comunicate with it :/
19:17:39  <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII_: no? pc doesnt sux? :)
19:18:00  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII_> does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip? <-- I don't have to reconnect at all
19:18:03  <Gonozal_VIII_> no i wanted to type "you suck" instead of "you sux" ^^
19:18:35  <BiA|pavel-css> Bjarni: same here :)
19:18:48  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:19:35  <Bjarni> there is even a fair chance that I will get the same IP when I reconnect after turning off the computer (depending on how long it's turned off)
19:19:40  <Gonozal_VIII_> my other connection doesn't reconnect either... it's over cable tv
19:26:28  *** Gonozal_VIII_ is now known as Gonozal_VIII
19:28:43  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: you never seen the winter theme?
19:29:26  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i forget most things fast^^
19:30:11  <BiA|pavel-css> :D
19:32:12  <Bjarni> you better remember what winter feels like (the bad parts of it) because according to Al Gore we will fry and drown and never see a winter again
19:32:41  <Gonozal_VIII> yay never again winter :D
19:33:14  <BiA|pavel-css> sounds good .)
19:43:38  *** lugo [] has joined #openttd
19:50:10  *** llugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09:23  *** McHawk [] has joined #openttd
20:12:51  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
20:14:02  *** MDGrein [] has quit []
20:18:30  *** Mark [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- The professional IRC Client :D]
20:20:51  *** Purno_ [] has joined #openttd
20:21:01  *** Purno_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21:03  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11610 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Cleanup (r8572): remove orphan comment
20:21:42  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
20:27:56  <Gonozal_VIII> poor comment
20:28:50  <glx> it survived for more than 3000 revs
20:29:02  <glx> that's not bad :)
20:30:03  <Gonozal_VIII> but.. but.. you killed an orphan!
20:34:31  <Bjarni> so?
20:34:42  <Bjarni> survival of the fittest
20:34:46  <Bjarni> it didn't fit in
20:34:57  <Bjarni> it's pure Darwinism
20:35:56  <hylje> code darwinism
20:36:21  <Gonozal_VIII> but it survived for 3000 revs without its parent function
20:36:26  <Gonozal_VIII> it was a very strong comment
20:36:39  <Bjarni> not strong enough
20:36:42  <Gonozal_VIII> you should have written some foster code for it
20:36:44  <glx> its parent was an include :)
20:37:22  <Bjarni> why was the code removed and not the comment?
20:40:25  <BiA|pavel-css> lazy people? :)
20:42:55  <Gonozal_VIII> src/orphanage.h
20:44:06  <Rubidium> I prefer giving all orphan /dev/null as parent
20:45:32  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:45:58  <Bjarni> bury him?
20:46:06  <Bjarni> we are too lazy to do that
20:53:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
20:55:21  <BiA|pavel-css> gn
20:55:33  <Gonozal_VIII> night
20:55:37  *** BiA|pavel-css [] has quit []
20:59:03  *** spaceinvader [] has joined #openttd
21:00:09  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:04:57  <fjb> Is there a way to destroy a bridge that is owned by a town? Towns tend to build lots of stupid bridges.
21:06:03  <glx> magic bulldozer should do it
21:06:14  <fjb> ... without cheating?
21:06:43  <glx> remove more town owned maybe
21:07:45  <fjb> How do you mean that?
21:08:03  <Gonozal_VIII> configure patches
21:09:22  <Gonozal_VIII> 3rd option in construction tab
21:09:27  <fjb> Ah, I found it. Great. thank you.
21:10:31  <fjb> How about better bridges for towns? :-)
21:10:55  <Gonozal_VIII> better bridges? you mean less?
21:11:11  <Gonozal_VIII> some minimum distance between them would be good...
21:16:26  <fjb> Yes, like the better road layouts.
21:21:03  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
21:21:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11611 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp driver.h stdafx.h win32.cpp): -Codechange: it is now possible to use a define to enable asserts and show them in crash.log for MSVC release builds
21:22:00  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:23:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11612 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change: update some documentation.
21:24:14  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
21:37:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11613 /tags/0.6.0-beta2/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
21:37:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Release: 0.6.0-beta2.
21:37:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The second beta with quite a lot of bugfixes since beta1 and a few smaller features.
21:39:19  <Sacro> Rubidium: wooyay
21:42:16  *** eJoJ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:42:43  <fjb> Great.
21:43:16  *** eJoJ [] has joined #openttd
21:46:19  *** G [] has joined #openttd
21:48:04  *** G_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51:54  <Bjarni> "and there was much rejoice"
21:52:04  <Bjarni> it's not done yet :P
21:52:28  <Bjarni> it takes a while to compile, upload and shit
21:52:35  <Rubidium> especially upload
21:52:55  <ln-> Bjarni: have you ever been shooting with a machine gun?
21:53:27  <Bjarni> actually yes
21:53:31  <Smoovious> maybe too much fiber
21:53:42  <Bjarni> but what kind of random question is that???
21:54:06  <ln-> an example of true randomness
21:54:16  <Bjarni> why did you ask? :)
21:55:14  <ln-> Bjarni: i've finished watching TNG, no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else.
21:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's still DS9 and Voyager ;)
21:57:17  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, i'm expecting two DS9 boxes to arrive next week, beware. :)
22:00:22  *** elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:04:26  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:14:18  <Bjarni> speaking of firearms. I know a guy. During his military service they had to learn how to use pistols and the very first time he fired 3 shots. Then the target moved towards them (like they do on a shooting range to see how well you did) and at a distance the instructor saw only one hole so he said "you only hit once but at least it was a bull's eye". When it arrived they noticed that the hole was 3 holes on top of each other
22:14:25  <Bjarni> this guy could never repeat this though
22:14:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11614 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: The about dialog scrolling was connected to the mouse instead of the internal ticks
22:15:11  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
22:16:04  <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: [...] no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else. <-- that sounds sad
22:16:19  <michi_cc> Rubidium: 59eb68042c8b6279df65f96337cdb33f (and as well)
22:17:05  <Rubidium> it's already done uploading?
22:18:16  <Bjarni> did michi_cc beat the rest of us to upload to SF?
22:18:23  <Bjarni> no wonder we didn't get any bandwidth
22:18:31  <michi_cc> yeah
22:18:47  <Rubidium> two binaries?
22:19:07  <Rubidium> what's different in the debug version?
22:19:21  <Bjarni> ln-: <--- Star Trek seen with some new eyes... part 2 is the video response
22:19:22  <michi_cc> oops, that -dbg wasn't meant for, only my site. sorry
22:20:29  <Bjarni> ln-: they even missed one mistake. In Voyager they can't turn at warp speed (claiming it to be physically impossible) yet in the very first TNG episode Enterprise turns at warp speed
22:20:31  <michi_cc> it's the .pdb files from visual studio, I keep them in case it helps with some bug
22:20:52  <Rubidium> anyhow, vaporised from sf
22:23:34  <ln-> Bjarni: they should have some 24th century physicists as consultants.
22:27:54  *** McHawk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:30:32  <Bjarni> ln-: yeah... but when they time travel they aren't allowed to interfere with history. Altering a TV show with so many viewers seems like changing history
22:38:49  *** skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt]
22:46:36  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:51:19  <glx> @op
22:51:21  *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
22:51:42  *** glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | And please, no YouTube links
22:51:47  <glx> @deop
22:51:47  *** mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
22:52:26  *** macias [] has joined #openttd
22:55:14  *** Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
22:56:20  <macias> hi all,
22:58:31  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
23:01:38  <macias> please tell me what status do NoAI and cpp_gui branches have.
23:02:16  <glx> on hold
23:02:46  <macias> resources are put to stabilizing release version?
23:03:21  <glx> cpp_gui will probably need a full restart
23:03:26  <macias> I see
23:03:57  <macias> but is there anybody who wants to do it?
23:04:02  <glx> and NoAI is updated when AI writers submit or request stuff
23:05:08  <glx> anyway cpp_gui will wait until 0.6.0 branching
23:05:32  <glx> (and maybe more ;) )
23:05:57  <macias> so the attidue towards turning it alive is mixed?
23:06:03  <macias> :D
23:07:01  <Rubidium> both take an enormous amount of effort with little to no gain for the end user
23:07:28  <Digitalfox> what about branch "map", why not delete it? Or is there still any interest on code that is in it?
23:07:41  <Rubidium> why delete it?
23:07:54  <Rubidium> deleting it only makes the svn repository larger
23:08:36  <Digitalfox> really? Didn't know that, i thought it was the other way :\
23:08:58  <macias> history for deleted objects is kept anyway
23:09:11  <Rubidium> it's version control so it always remains in the repository
23:09:35  <Digitalfox> So everytime a branch is deleted, it increases svn repository size?
23:09:42  <Rubidium> yes
23:09:44  <Brianetta> Every change does
23:09:57  <Brianetta> Bear in mind that everything is un-doable, and you'll see why
23:10:00  <glx> a delete is a HUGE diff
23:10:05  <Digitalfox> didn't know that .. :\
23:10:37  <Digitalfox> Never will i say again the delete word for a branch :)
23:11:30  <Digitalfox> By the way, what's the size of svn repository right now with all the files and history ?
23:11:35  <glx> Digitalfox: you can try :) remove src dir and check svn diff
23:12:05  <Digitalfox> will try glx :)
23:12:31  *** macias [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:12:49  <Rubidium> 520 MB
23:13:23  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:14:23  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: oh i thought it was bigger with all that history stuff, thanks for sharing the size Rubidium :)
23:14:58  <Rubidium> it can be much smaller with some other versioning systems
23:15:39  <glx> but other versioning systems don't have human readable "revision"
23:17:43  <Smoovious> is that 520Mb (un)compressed?
23:21:30  <Bjarni> HDs are cheap today
23:21:30  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:21:36  <Bjarni> so is bandwidth
23:21:38  <Bjarni> don't complain
23:25:48  <Rubidium> as long as you don't do a checkout of the whole repository everything should be fine
23:25:56  *** jthill [] has left #openttd []
23:26:20  <Rubidium> tss... still no beta2 servers
23:27:06  <glx> lol
23:27:12  <SmatZ> :)
23:28:11  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
23:28:54  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:29:38  <Bjarni> and no replies to the beta2 post on the forum
23:30:12  <Smoovious> and its been well over a half-hour already!
23:30:36  <Bjarni> people are so slow
23:30:44  <Rubidium> actually 113 minutes
23:30:47  <SmatZ> I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-)
23:30:51  <SmatZ> *think
23:31:04  <Smoovious> 113 is well over a half-hour :P
23:31:17  <SmatZ> blegh such an ugly typo
23:32:31  <SmatZ> actually it is 113/60 of an hour
23:32:41  <SmatZ> roughly 2 hoursy
23:32:50  <Bjarni> SmatZ: are you drunk?
23:32:59  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you]
23:33:23  <Smoovious> 2 hours is still well over a half-hour :D
23:33:28  <Bjarni> wtf is that about bells... it's part of the game... then why remove them?
23:33:37  <Smoovious> ?!
23:33:43  <Smoovious> what's wrong with the bells?
23:33:46  <SmatZ> Bjarni: no
23:33:51  <SmatZ> I just type really bad
23:33:52  <Bjarni> SmatZ: maybe you should be
23:34:00  <SmatZ> why?
23:34:04  <Bjarni> Smoovious: <SmatZ> I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-)
23:34:19  * Smoovious nods.
23:34:26  <SmatZ> [00:30:54] <SmatZ> *think
23:34:29  <SmatZ> [00:31:20] <SmatZ> blegh such an ugly typo
23:34:45  <Bjarni> SmatZ: looking at how you spell when you are sober makes me wonder if you got some sort of reversed spelling thing when it comes to being drunk
23:35:05  <SmatZ> I am typing rather automatically... that's the reason why I type "train" instead of "tram" at many places
23:35:12  <SmatZ> :)
23:35:18  <Bjarni> like when you code?
23:36:06  <SmatZ> Bjarni:
23:36:09  <Bjarni> generally I wouldn't consider crossing bells to be an issue
23:36:14  <Bjarni> not even in real life
23:36:34  *** LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
23:37:05  <Bjarni> so far I have only noticed one house that I say would be really annoyed by noise. It's like 3 meters from a sign that tells the train to use the horn due to the crossing up ahead
23:37:57  <Smoovious> hahaha
23:38:02  <Smoovious> that's gotta suck
23:38:33  <Smoovious> like, 'why couldn't I have moved near the airport'
23:38:51  <Bjarni> it's only for trains in one direction
23:38:56  <Bjarni> and usually once every hour
23:39:11  <Bjarni> and the horns aren't that powerful. This isn't America
23:39:11  <Smoovious> just enough time to get to sleep then
23:39:45  <Smoovious> oh ok... so you can't hear em 5 miles away
23:40:10  <Bjarni> but when I noticed I was like... "ok, that's a really bad placement but the sign is older than the house"
23:40:46  <Bjarni> why did they build the house there??? I mean it's not like it's in a big city... it looks more like a forest
23:41:14  <Smoovious> maybe the lot price was cheap
23:41:30  <Bjarni> actually I don't think they cared much
23:42:20  <Bjarni> it wasn't until fairly recently that people started to complain about noise and now they complain about everything
23:43:24  <Bjarni> however I agree with this one "the new trains are way more noisy than the old ones and they are it in a much higher pitch so it's way more annoying"
23:43:45  <Bjarni> so they wake up everybody at 5 A.M.
23:43:52  <Bjarni> the old ones didn't do that
23:45:04  <Smoovious> commuter type trains?
23:45:08  <Bjarni> yes
23:45:14  <Bjarni> they purchased some sort of DMU
23:45:19  <Smoovious> ahh
23:45:34  <Bjarni> no catenary so it had to be diesel
23:45:57  <Bjarni> but the brakes whine when they stop :(
23:46:12  * Smoovious nods.
23:46:20  <Bjarni> and they are way too noisy when they start up and heats up in the morning
23:46:32  <Smoovious> oh man...
23:46:36  <Bjarni> now the solution to the last one is to start them up in the countryside... or something
23:46:44  <Smoovious> my ttruck hates starting up cold
23:46:58  <Bjarni> I wonder why they don't preheat
23:47:20  <Smoovious> noisy as hell you think the truck is falling apart, and the stacks put out so much smoke while it is warming up, I white-out the whole lot if I'm up-wind
23:47:39  <Bjarni> sounds healthy :P
23:47:49  <Bjarni> both for you and your car
23:48:02  <Smoovious> oh yeah... got out of the truck to see if it was on fire... as did a bunch of other truckers too...
23:48:29  <Bjarni> why don't you have a preheater?
23:48:29  <Smoovious> (it is old, due to be retired)
23:48:32  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
23:48:36  <Bjarni> ahh
23:48:45  <Smoovious> cuz the company who owns the truck is too cheap...
23:49:12  <Bjarni> it's an expensive place to save money
23:49:19  <Smoovious> the electrical system couldn't  handle it anyways... even doing 70 down the freeway, I sometimes can't generaate enough power to use my map lights...
23:49:31  <Bjarni> the preheater uses less diesel than a cold start and the engine lasts longer if it's not allowed to start cold
23:49:58  <Smoovious> yeah, but the generator (APU) costs ,000
23:50:14  <Smoovious> they'll only put them  on the  trucks for their million-mile drivers
23:50:45  <Bjarni> we have preheaters on a locomotive that
23:50:49  <Bjarni> bahh
23:50:55  <Bjarni> ' and enter next to each other
23:51:07  <Bjarni> we have preheaters on a locomotive that's way cheaper than ,000
23:51:16  <Osai> Rubidium: are you still awake?
23:51:43  <Smoovious> if I owned the truck, I could get one put on for about ,000, all charges included
23:51:49  <Bjarni> it's made out of an oil burner that burns diesel. A pump pumps the cooling water though it
23:51:52  <Bjarni> and that's it
23:52:05  <Smoovious> but the company, would go through the dealership the trucks came from, by contract
23:52:14  <Bjarni> it can get the engine from cold to operational temperature on battery power only
23:52:33  <Smoovious> yeah,  my batteries would die out too quick for that
23:52:49  *** Dark_Link^ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:52:56  <Smoovious> its a piece of crap truck ... but being entry-level, I expected that
23:53:06  <Bjarni> and here is the good part: it has a battery of it's own so the start engine gets power from a different set of batteries so you are sure not to kill your batteries before starting
23:53:55  <Bjarni> <Smoovious> its a piece of crap truck <-- does that include the brakes as well?
23:54:43  <Gonozal_VIII> you'll arrive much faster without brakes
23:54:58  <Bjarni> or not at all
23:55:39  <Smoovious> Bjarni... well... the brakes aren't as bad... they at least get regular attention, even if I have to adjust the slack adjusters myself... but they could be better too
23:56:19  <Bjarni> do you make a daily inspection of bolts and brakes and stuff?
23:56:24  <Bjarni> or is that a train only thing?
23:57:00  * Sacro starts his Open Source Train Sim
23:57:23  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:57:45  <Bjarni> Sacro: like I said on the forum: it's not a simulation ;)
23:57:59  <Sacro> Bjarni: no, this isn't OpenTTD
23:58:10  <Bjarni> oh
23:58:11  <Sacro> this is a project i'm starting
23:58:11  <Smoovious> well, you're supposed to do a full  inspection at the beginning and end of each day of driving...
23:58:12  <fjb> Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead?
23:58:14  <Bjarni> then what is it?
23:58:23  <Sacro> Open Source train Sim
23:58:29  <Sacro> with hopefully signalling sim too
23:58:34  <Smoovious> but some stuff I only check once a week, or during a fuel stop
23:58:42  <Bjarni> <fjb> Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead? <-- check openttd.cfg
23:58:56  <Bjarni> I think you can adjust it yourself if you like
23:59:10  <Smoovious> the brakes, cargo securement, lights, etc, etc, I check each trip, and every 150 miles or 3 hours, whichever comes first
23:59:55  <Bjarni> what kind of cargo do you have?

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk