Log for #openttd on 22nd December 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:23  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:02:29  <Gonozal_VIII> icq is really the worst... it disconnects every few minutes
00:03:55  <Gonozal_VIII> and since about 2h i get the same offline messages again and again from the same guy everytime it reconnects
00:04:26  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm more than 2h... first message is from 18:20
00:05:29  <fjb> And your friend as the same problems?
00:05:47  <Gonozal_VIII> the one upstairs?
00:05:48  <Gonozal_VIII> yes...
00:06:13  <fjb> The one who is connected to the same router as you.
00:06:32  <fjb> Maybe you should try another router.
00:06:40  <Gonozal_VIII> yes he has the same problems and it doesn't matter if he downloads something or i do
00:07:12  <fjb> I suspect the router.
00:07:44  <Gonozal_VIII> to be broken or bad by design?
00:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> what if you install a software router and do not route through the router?
00:08:16  <Gonozal_VIII> he bought it... i guess it was the cheapest he could find
00:08:23  <fjb> Could be both... Did you try to flash a newer firmware?
00:08:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i can't plug in 2 cables?
00:09:08  <ln-> did someone fix the difficulty settings close button thing already?
00:09:09  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't try new firmware, no...
00:09:11  <ln-> why not?
00:09:40  <Gonozal_VIII> because i don't have 2 slots to put the cables in?
00:10:12  <ln-> what brand is it?
00:10:20  <fjb> You could try a software router, your friend would be disconnected while you that, but it will show you if the router causes the problems.
00:11:00  <Gonozal_VIII> the router  is a netgear RP614v4
00:11:33  <fjb> Netgear is usually ok, but the things have to be cheaper and cheaper...
00:11:49  <Gonozal_VIII> why do i need a router when i'm the only one connected?
00:12:33  <Gonozal_VIII> good question, he's not here for the holidays...
00:12:34  <fjb> You don't need a router then.
00:12:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i'll try without the router :-)
00:12:58  <fjb> Just connect your Pc in the way it was connected before you had the router.
00:18:18  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:21:46  <fjb> Articulated road vehicles. :-)
00:28:25  <ln-> will we seen gonozal_viii again tonight?
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00:30:23  <Bjarni> maybe
00:30:27  <Bjarni> wanna bet?
00:30:42  <Bjarni> the loser will do the dishes
00:31:00  <Bjarni> the winner takes it all
00:31:22  <fjb> I don't bet. :-)
00:31:50  <Bjarni> so you are afraid of the dishes?
00:31:59  <Bjarni> they don't bite
00:32:03  <Bjarni> not much anyway
00:32:13  <Bjarni> only if you break them
00:33:44  <fjb> I don't want to frustrate you when I win.
00:35:14  <Bjarni> the greatest bet I ever heard was two guys (let's call them A and B) who made the bet that for every time A drank so such that he couldn't remember it the next day he had to give B half a case of beer
00:35:23  <Bjarni> there was no time limit
00:35:33  <Bjarni> and there was no way B could end up giving A beer
00:35:47  <Wolf01> 'night
00:35:49  <kyevan> Was A extremely drunk at the tiem?
00:35:51  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
00:36:21  <Bjarni> also at the time they made that bet A had already done it twice so he already had to give B a whole case of beer
00:36:51  <Bjarni> kyevan: everybody presumed none of them to be sober at the time
00:37:28  <Bjarni> but I think A was more drunk than just "not sober"
00:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> did you notice that they often have model fires and model car accidents, but never model train accidents?
00:38:17  <Bjarni> who are "they"? :)
00:39:09  <Sacro> <- this could keep you amused for a while
00:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> [2007-12-22 00:14] <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... on "MDR" they have a "Long Model Railway Night" (3h)
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00:40:43  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Why are more road vehicles destroyed by accident in TTD then trains? :-)
00:41:22  <fjb> Sacro: That doesn't amuse me.
00:41:35  <Sacro> fjb: how sad
00:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that statistics does not hold anymore since PBS :p
00:41:39  <Sacro> it'll occupy Bjarni though
00:41:51  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: 8 trains in one accident :(
00:41:53  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: <-- here is your model train breaking
00:41:54  <Sacro> Brianetta laughed
00:42:08  <Sacro> Bjarni: wow, it greps on 2 of my key words
00:42:21  <Bjarni> personally I think it's sick but you might like it
00:42:27  * Sacro dribbles
00:43:08  <Bjarni> I once had a real model train accident
00:43:31  <Bjarni> I got hit by a H0 locomotive at high speed and broke a nail
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00:46:28  <fjb> Poor Bjarni
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00:46:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> you lost :p
00:47:03  <Gonozal_VIII> i lost? what?
00:47:37  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
00:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> not you ;)
00:48:20  * Sacro just lost the game
00:48:41  <Gonozal_VIII> chrisin destroyed more trains than pbs... at least for me
00:49:03  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Here was a bet if you would come back tonight. :-)
00:49:14  <Gonozal_VIII> i read the logs ;-)
00:49:31  <Gonozal_VIII> it was difficult...
00:49:36  <fjb> Did you kick the router?
00:49:40  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
00:50:05  <fjb> Then we will know if it causes the problems soon.
00:50:07  <Gonozal_VIII> couldn't set up the connection without the provider cd... don't know why
00:50:15  <Gonozal_VIII> had to search for the cd...
00:50:19  <Gonozal_VIII> had to clean the cd...
00:50:48  <Gonozal_VIII> install... that stuff askes for costumer id...
00:51:02  <Gonozal_VIII> had to search for that...
00:51:19  <fjb> :-)
00:51:41  <Gonozal_VIII> reconnected the router, logged in at the website of the isp..
00:51:52  <Gonozal_VIII> disconnected again...
00:51:56  <Gonozal_VIII> continued the install..
00:51:59  <Gonozal_VIII> here i am^^
00:52:13  <Gonozal_VIII> easy, isn't it?
00:52:45  <fjb> Sounds really easy.
00:53:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> did it solve the problem? ;)
00:53:30  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know...
00:53:41  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm waiting for the next disconnect
00:53:44  <fjb> We will know soon.
00:54:39  <ln-> 02:43 <@Bjarni> I got hit by a H0 locomotive at high speed and broke a nail  <-- better keep your nails under 3 cm long
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00:58:14  * fjb waits for Gonozal_VIII disconnecting.
00:58:27  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
00:58:38  <Gonozal_VIII> icq is still connected
00:58:41  <Sacro> PROF_FRINK!
01:00:58  <fjb> I'm still suspecting the router.
01:01:19  <Gonozal_VIII> looks like you're right
01:01:35  <ln-> shhhhhhiiiiiiiiiitttt, there are Lwaxana Troi episodes also in DS9.
01:01:49  <fjb> :-)
01:02:03  <ln-> why, oh why
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01:05:28  <Sacro> Troi hawt
01:05:56  <Gonozal_VIII> not that troi
01:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: that's the mother of deanna
01:06:33  <Sacro> i know :(
01:07:36  <Gonozal_VIII> traffic shaping doesn't seem to work now
01:07:45  <Gonozal_VIII> no active connections
01:08:06  <Bjarni> <ln-> 02:43 <@Bjarni> I got hit by a H0 locomotive at high speed and broke a nail  <-- better keep your nails under 3 cm long <-- actually it wasn't due to long nails... it broke like half a cm from the "inside"
01:08:17  <Bjarni> now where you usually break nails
01:08:19  <Gonozal_VIII> ouch
01:08:26  <Bjarni> but it cracked at the point of impact
01:08:59  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: yeah... I survived though and now the nail is normal again
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01:10:29  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Probably you have a new virtual networking interface now. And cFos speed doesn't know about it or is not able to handle it.
01:12:43  <fjb> Hey, first time I see a logoff massage from Gonozal's irc client, and no connection lost message. :-)
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01:18:35  <Gonozal_VIII> no, that was not the connection ;-)
01:19:02  <Gonozal_VIII> i rebooted and then lots of things wanted to be updated....
01:19:17  <Gonozal_VIII> (didn't reboot for some time)
01:20:47  <fjb> I saw the difference.
01:21:13  <fjb> You could try to flash the router with a new firmware.
01:22:05  <Gonozal_VIII> the router is not connected now
01:22:43  <Gonozal_VIII> but i will do that when i connect it again...
01:22:51  <fjb> I know, but how will you connect your friend without the router?
01:23:03  <Gonozal_VIII> guess i'll just make some screenshots of the settings then...
01:23:09  <glx> you can search if there's an update
01:23:24  <Gonozal_VIII> yes there is an update, already searched for that
01:23:28  <Bjarni> Sacro: that game of yours is interesting but....
01:23:34  <Bjarni> it has to few levels
01:23:41  <Sacro> too?
01:23:42  <Gonozal_VIII> but the changes didn't seem to affect my problem
01:24:23  <Gonozal_VIII> and i was to lazy to reenter all the settings...
01:25:52  <Bjarni> yeah
01:25:56  <Bjarni> too few levels
01:26:13  <Bjarni> and it's not like it's hard either
01:27:21  <Gonozal_VIII> what game :S didn't see anything about a game in the logs
01:28:06  <Bjarni>
01:28:49  <Gonozal_VIII> aaah
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01:37:24  <Gonozal_VIII> nice game :-)
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01:45:07  <kyevan> I think I crashed it..
01:45:19  <kyevan> By trying to take a giant screenshot of a max-size game
01:46:14  <Bjarni> ok I'm out of levels
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01:52:09  <glx> kyevan: not crashed, but you may run out of memory
01:52:18  <kyevan> Heh.
01:52:33  <Bjarni> RAM is really cheap right now
01:52:56  <Bjarni> but having more physical RAM isn't the golden solution to this problem
01:53:03  <Bjarni> it is to many other problems though
01:53:06  <glx> but giant screenshot of a 2048² map is too much
01:53:15  <kyevan> Heh, it actually finished :P
01:53:28  <glx> now find a tool to open it :)
01:53:44  <kyevan> 983 meg png :P
01:53:52  <kyevan> Should I upload it to the wiki? :P
01:54:17  <glx> no way
01:54:21  <Bjarni> well... I read that the RAM factories worked hard on making enough RAM for everybody to upgrade to vista. That didn't happen so now they have too much and are selling at reduced price. It's estimated that the prices will rise in February so if you need RAM then now is the time
01:54:49  <glx> I already have 2GB
01:55:15  <kyevan> aww, it's an invalid png :P
01:55:26  <Bjarni> I'm not so sure
01:55:34  <kyevan> anyway
01:55:36  <Bjarni> it might be your viewing app that runs out of memory
01:55:41  <Sacro> "The last 48 hours of my life are a blur; all I see are trains and forests and coal mines." <- hehehe
01:56:09  <kyevan> Bjarni: No, it imideiely pops up "Can't recognize format", "not a valid PNG", etc.
01:56:18  <kyevan> whatever, I don't really want to see it anywy :P
01:56:27  <Bjarni> then why did you make it?
01:57:10  <kyevan> Because I wanted to see if I could!
01:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> what exactly is it about trains that you can watch them for hours and they don't get boring?
01:57:46  <Bjarni> Sacro: well.... the past day isn't a blur to me but all I saw was trains, tracks and similar stuff
01:58:01  <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause3: They're TRAINS.
01:58:10  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: they are long
02:02:23  <Sacro> night everyone
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02:10:57  <Belugas> night Sacro
02:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> night john boy
02:11:56  <Gonozal_VIII> night
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02:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid mirrors won't direct the light where i want them to
02:13:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> why do i have a load of 1.7 when nothing time consuming is running?
02:16:34  <UnderBuilder> would be nice a mod of openttd where you have to build up from scratch a city by building near it your HQ and some roads and then transporting to it goods and feeding nearby power stations
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02:18:24  <murray> oh, too bad
02:18:47  <murray> i have this absolutely hilarious youtube link
02:18:54  <murray> a real classic
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02:19:09  <murray> but guess i can't share it cause topic says so
02:19:47  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: Just look into the list of prozesses.
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02:41:21  <UnderBuilder> somebody saw my idea?
02:42:46  <Gonozal_VIII> you can already have that (almost)
02:43:16  <Gonozal_VIII> set the map generator to produce only very small towns and you can let them grow
02:44:01  <Gonozal_VIII> but i don't think power plants have an effect...
02:44:49  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess all industries in that town that are good serviced should help towngrowth as they provide work...
02:46:26  <Gonozal_VIII> towns could shrink and die out when nothing is transportet there :-)
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02:57:45  <Gonozal_VIII> no disconnects since router is gone...
02:58:50  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
03:01:54  <fjb> :-)
03:02:09  <Gonozal_VIII> bad, bad router
03:02:29  <fjb> At least we fount the cause of the problem.
03:02:36  <fjb> Try a new firmware.
03:02:45  <UnderBuilder> what I want is that you start with no cities and you have to grow one from scratch
03:03:26  <Gonozal_VIII> how does the city know where to start?
03:03:52  <UnderBuilder> the city title appears where you place your HQ
03:04:05  <Gonozal_VIII> and without cities there are also no industries (i think, as they all belong to a city)
03:04:25  <Gonozal_VIII> you can only build one hq
03:05:50  <UnderBuilder> you dedicate to build one city
03:06:19  <UnderBuilder> the industries code should be reprogrammed so industries have no owner
03:07:17  <Gonozal_VIII> a single city on the map might be a bit boring
03:08:07  <UnderBuilder> this could be useful for multiplayer
03:08:21  <UnderBuilder> each player builds their own city
03:08:50  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i see... the goal is to get the biggest city?
03:11:54  <UnderBuilder> yep
03:12:20  <UnderBuilder> now a doubt... how do I get the map seed number when I am playing
03:16:02  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm you can get the seed that was used in the last generation through the scenario editor... but from a older game i don't know
03:18:19  <Gonozal_VIII> and that only if you didn't open the new game window in between... opening that generates a new seed
03:26:23  <Gonozal_VIII> no.. can't find it anywhere
03:29:50  <fjb> Good night.
03:30:05  <Gonozal_VIII> good idea
03:30:08  <Gonozal_VIII> night
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03:30:44  <Gonozal_VIII> 4:30... time for some sleep
03:30:48  <Gonozal_VIII> night
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09:25:24  <Wolf01> hello
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10:24:32  <pavel1269> hi
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13:27:18  <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni!
13:27:30  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII!
13:27:52  * Bjarni waits for Gonozal_VIII to time out
13:28:01  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe that stopped :-)
13:28:09  <Bjarni> it should take no more than a few minutes
13:28:37  <Gonozal_VIII> the router seems to be the bad guy
13:28:54  <Gonozal_VIII> direct connection to the modem --> no problem
13:28:55  <Bjarni> so you updated the firmware?
13:29:46  <roboman> my problem seemed to be the card/driver but dlink dont offer drivers for it anymore
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13:30:41  <Gonozal_VIII> the router is not that old... 2 or 3 years... but i guess it was the cheapest one available
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13:37:17  <Digitalfox> Good afternoon everybody :)
13:37:41  <Gonozal_VIII> morning
13:38:03  <Bjarni> roboman: try
13:38:09  <Digitalfox> oh, its 13:37 here lol
13:38:21  <Gonozal_VIII> 14:38 :-)
13:38:27  <Bjarni> they have all sorts of drivers. Some of them are hard to get elsewhere
13:38:50  <Bjarni> Digitalfox: your clock has a severe lag
13:38:54  <Bjarni> [14:38:09]  <Digitalfox> oh, its 13:37 here lol
13:39:06  <Gonozal_VIII> [14:38:08] Digitalfox: oh, its 13:37 here lol
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13:39:31  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: stop copying me
13:39:35  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm my clock was 1,10 seconds wrong
13:39:41  <Digitalfox> is great :) Only problem is that you can only download 5 drivers for each account unless you buy a subscription pack :(
13:40:12  <Bjarni> I didn't know that
13:40:18  <Bjarni> then again I only needed one driver
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13:40:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess there are not that many drivers that you can't get anywhere else
13:40:32  <Digitalfox> my clock has a severe lag?? Lol
13:41:05  <Gonozal_VIII> at least not for a normal user
13:41:37  <Digitalfox> there are lot's of drivers that i can't elsewhere besides
13:41:41  <Digitalfox> *find
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13:41:57  <Digitalfox> because users can upload drivers, even for there own backup
13:42:06  <Digitalfox> so lot's of stuff there
13:42:31  <Gonozal_VIII> well yes... but lots of drivers for stuff you actually need?
13:42:55  <Digitalfox> yes
13:43:00  <Gonozal_VIII> ok..
13:43:21  <Gonozal_VIII> do you steal your computer components out of museums?^^
13:43:27  <Digitalfox> everyweek some old pc get's in my hands to fix, and drivers is always a nightmare.. So rules
13:43:37  <Gonozal_VIII> ah i see
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13:44:04  <Digitalfox> Beisdes networks i also fix friends and clients pc's
13:44:36  <skidd13> Digitalfox: use linux and you don't have problems with (most) older hardware ;)
13:44:52  <Digitalfox> skidd13: What about drivers?
13:45:05  <Gonozal_VIII> [14:41:05] Gonozal_VIII: at least not for a normal user <-- you're not a normal user then ;-)
13:45:15  <Digitalfox> nope
13:45:54  <skidd13> Digitalfox: AFAIK drivers won't be taken out of the kernel (and even if, you can use a prior main line like 2.2 or 2.4)
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13:48:32  <roboman> I got nowhere at
13:48:42  <roboman> did you mean
13:53:59  <Digitalfox> roboman:
14:03:53  <roboman> found what I think I want
14:05:33  <Bjarni> you think
14:05:35  <Bjarni> ...
14:05:47  <Bjarni> maybe your computer disagrees
14:06:16  <Gonozal_VIII> why would he need a computer?
14:06:32  <Gonozal_VIII> as a roboman :-)
14:07:03  <roboman> lol
14:08:22  <roboman> and the install didnt work or like my pc
14:12:35  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
14:12:42  <fjb> Moin
14:13:15  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
14:14:39  <fjb> I just got a packet from my best friend and her family, full of cookies. :-)
14:14:58  <Bjarni> that's too bad
14:15:13  <Bjarni> but at least browsers can clean out all cookies in no time
14:15:21  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
14:15:28  <fjb> To bad that you don't have a friend that can make cookies? :-P
14:15:37  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought of those cookies too
14:15:52  <fjb> It came per snail mail, so no cokkies got lost.
14:16:00  <Bjarni> if you mean Christmas cookies then you better say so
14:16:05  <fjb> cookies
14:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> "let me browse your cookie jar" :p
14:16:41  <fjb> :-)
14:16:48  <fjb> No they are mine. :-P
14:16:54  <Bjarni> <fjb> It came per snail mail, so no cokkies got lost. <-- we had a burglary on our post office the other night... somebody wanted extra Christmas presents so they stole other people's presents
14:17:14  <fjb> That is really sad . :-(
14:17:18  <Bjarni> so it is indeed possible to have lost packages with snail mail
14:17:20  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm good idea
14:18:20  <Bjarni> as luck would happen my package was at the package terminal and not the local post office that night
14:18:23  <fjb> Bjarni: Don't give Gonozal_VIII bad ideas.
14:18:27  <Gonozal_VIII> lost packages are no biggie, they'll just resend it and you've got yourself some presents :-)
14:19:02  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: if you try to do something funny then I will do something funny to you
14:19:16  <Bjarni> like scientific experiments
14:19:20  <Gonozal_VIII> yay fun
14:19:59  * fjb hides the cookies from Gonozal_VIII.
14:20:02  <Bjarni> like how will the colour of your face chance if I drain half a litre of blood from you every 10th minute
14:20:07  <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't leave my house anyways... there's frozen water everywhere outside...
14:20:08  <Bjarni> that could be an all day experiment
14:20:26  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't leave my house anyways... there's frozen water everywhere outside... <-- that's called ice
14:20:43  <fjb> Bjarni: That would be over much too fast...
14:20:55  <Gonozal_VIII> my body consists of 70% water or something, i don't want to freeze!
14:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's really strange, we don't have snow, but it's white all over the place...
14:21:35  <fjb> That's the fog from yesterday.
14:21:47  <Bjarni> the weather forecast here tells us that we will not get a white Christmas due to global warming...
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14:21:57  <Bjarni> it's below 0 °C though
14:22:02  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of snow here
14:22:15  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid snow...
14:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> the chance of white christmas was always slim
14:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> even more so near the water...
14:22:39  <Bjarni> statistically it's 6% here
14:22:43  <Gonozal_VIII> slim chance of about 95%
14:22:48  <Vikthor> not much of snow and below 0˚C due to inversion here in Prague
14:23:10  <roboman> ive heard cases of places further up from the NSW snowwy mountains getting a white christmas
14:23:27  <Vikthor> and smog also do to inversion
14:23:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, here, each tree and other plant is covered with ice...
14:23:33  <Gonozal_VIII> why would somebody want snow?
14:23:36  <Bjarni> because the demand for a white Christmas is that at least 95% of the country has at least 0,5 cm of snow.... but the chances of a local white Christmas is somewhat higher
14:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> it looks really great
14:23:58  <Bjarni> the weather forecast tend to forget talking about local weather though
14:23:59  <fjb> It's frozen fog here. I don't think it will last till Christmas.
14:24:01  <roboman> thwe NSW snowy mountains are usually the only place to get snow in NSW and they are almost in the southern border of NSW and VIC
14:24:08  <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: Where from Austria exactly you are?
14:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> and we didn't have smog since the mid 90's
14:24:17  <Gonozal_VIII> it may look good but all the work with shoveling it aside...
14:24:29  <Gonozal_VIII> hallstatt
14:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> when all major industries closed, and half the population wandered off to "the west"
14:24:57  <Bjarni> you know... winter is great fun with all the white outside (snow or ice) but it's less fun when the ice is inside water pipes
14:25:14  <Gonozal_VIII> or on your car..
14:25:16  <fjb> roboman: How hot is the summer?
14:25:26  <Gonozal_VIII> or on the path from the house to the road...
14:25:29  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause3: The problem here is that even that some industries closed, much more polution comes form cars
14:25:32  <Gonozal_VIII> or on the road...
14:25:51  * Bjarni has tried driving with a snowplow
14:25:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> Vikthor: yeah, but the people with cars are more likely to move away
14:25:55  <Bjarni> in mid summer :P
14:26:01  <roboman> sometimes 40 C but 30 C usually
14:26:17  <hylje>
14:27:14  <fjb> Great picture.
14:28:03  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause3: Well that's probably one of very few things thats better for you in former DDR
14:28:52  <Bjarni> stupid picture
14:28:57  <Bjarni> or rather... stupid firefox
14:29:05  <Bjarni> why isn't it starting....
14:29:12  <Gonozal_VIII> works for me
14:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, not really, because when all the semi-rich working people go away, all there is left is students, old people and "assis"
14:30:15  <Bjarni> odd... I opened the pic in safari instead and then it opened in no time
14:30:25  <Bjarni> firefox is still thinking about what to do
14:30:30  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: There are very sad things happening in Eastern Germany. :-(
14:30:44  <Gonozal_VIII> my firefox opened it without a problem
14:30:54  <Bjarni> that's how it usually works here
14:30:59  <Bjarni> too
14:31:04  <Bjarni> but... something is weird right now
14:31:32  <Bjarni> 10% free CPU time... it should not be an overloaded computer
14:31:40  <hylje> firefox sucks
14:31:43  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause3: Of course, I meant that less polution is one of very few positive things that happening in Eastern Germany, in global it's probably not so good
14:31:44  <Gonozal_VIII> does not
14:31:48  <Bjarni> it's loaded but now overloaded
14:32:02  <murray> opera > firefox > * > IE
14:32:30  <Bjarni> murray: that would be evil to do
14:32:45  <Bjarni> besides how would you walk over to IE?
14:32:58  <murray> wut?
14:33:07  <murray> > means "greater than"
14:33:16  <Bjarni> ahh
14:33:21  * murray > Bjarni
14:33:26  <Bjarni> I thought you meant direction of travelling
14:33:33  <murray> lol no
14:33:40  <hylje> haha
14:33:48  <Bjarni> and I considered your statement really odd
14:33:59  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't like opera when i tested it...
14:34:03  <Gonozal_VIII> was slooow
14:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's brainfuck code...
14:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> > means "increase the pointer"
14:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> the other characters are commentaries
14:34:43  <Bjarni> I once talked to an opera coder and I said that I installed it and he said "poor you"
14:34:53  * roboman has been playing OpenTTD lately ive been runing a small server for a few freinds
14:34:53  <Bjarni> this was in the beta days though
14:36:27  <roboman> Am I able to force openttd to save everything and use everything in the directory it was put in. I put it in OpenTTD on my desktop but it wants everything but data to be in My Documents
14:36:38  <Bjarni> I now officially declare firefox for being in deep shit
14:36:44  <Bjarni> it is still trying to start
14:36:55  <Gonozal_VIII> refresh...
14:37:04  <Bjarni> it is trying to open a window....
14:37:22  <roboman> I know this was done for getting round the Program Files permisions stuff
14:38:08  <Bjarni> hmm
14:38:13  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need it in my documents
14:38:19  <Bjarni> I forced quitted it and now it opened in secs
14:38:32  <roboman> im geusing thats why I couldnt start my dedicated server
14:38:44  <Gonozal_VIII> that's to use multiple installs of openttd with the same settings
14:38:47  <roboman> it isnt but its dumping my saves there
14:38:48  <Bjarni> bbl
14:38:53  <roboman> bye
14:39:10  * Bjarni is going to travel now
14:39:16  <Bjarni> all the way to the kitchen
14:39:26  <Gonozal_VIII> by train?
14:39:35  <Bjarni> I think so
14:39:37  <roboman> will sticking openttd.cfg in the folder fix it?
14:39:40  <Bjarni> because then I got the right of way
14:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> roboman: if you have anything in your openttd dir, it will prefer that over the my documents dir
14:39:51  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
14:39:56  <roboman> ok
14:44:42  <roboman> can I force the dedicated server to stay open?
14:45:22  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm? what do you mean?
14:47:24  <roboman> it closes immediately cause of erors i think when I tell it to open a save game
14:47:39  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
14:47:41  <roboman> I can not read what it says so I do not know why it is closing
14:47:52  <hylje> have a script restarting it whenever it dies
14:47:58  <hylje> and run it in a console
14:47:59  <roboman> i run it openttd -D -g blah
14:48:18  <Gonozal_VIII> run it with a .bat and add pause in the next line :-)
14:48:30  <roboman> so that will do the trick
14:48:36  <roboman> cmd aint closing
14:51:18  <roboman> cmd wasnt closing its the openttd console that opens
14:51:28  <roboman> and the suddenly closes
14:52:01  <roboman> runing it from a .bat doesnt keep the console open
14:52:08  <roboman> cmd stays open
14:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> there was something about turning stuff int console apps
14:52:21  <roboman> ok
14:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> *into
14:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i don't know anything about tha
14:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> t
14:54:43  <glx>
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14:55:20  <glx> ^^ that's the tool to convert openttd into console app
15:06:47  <roboman> thanx
15:10:47  <roboman> the game load was failing
15:11:03  <roboman> it was something about format not recognised
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15:12:52  <gege> good day
15:12:57  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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15:13:33  <gege> i installed the ttrs2aw grf file when i first start everything is fine
15:13:49  <gege> but when next time i want to run the program it crashes
15:14:13  <gege> where i need to send the crash.dmp?
15:15:08  <Gonozal_VIII> why not ttrs3?
15:15:19  <gege> sorry ttrs3 i think
15:15:32  <gege> but after i delet the grf and openttd.cfg
15:15:39  <gege> it crashes again and again
15:16:07  <Gonozal_VIII> you changed the cfg manually? maybe you broke something there...
15:16:21  <gege> after i restart the win everything is fine
15:16:26  <gege> i changed manually
15:16:49  <gege> but after i del the cfg it crashes again
15:17:07  <gege> i dont know why this bug
15:17:23  <gege> but maybe help if someone get this crash.dmp
15:17:40  <gege> i want to send it only for help this great work
15:17:45  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- look if you can find the bug there, if not, post it :-)
15:18:07  <gege> :)
15:18:15  * roboman can not stop listening to this song
15:18:17  <gege> 185 report im afk for a hour or two:)
15:18:18  <Gonozal_VIII> if yes, reply there...
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15:24:06  <gege> hm i dont really know what make this crash
15:24:21  <gege> but i dont see bug what type of this
15:24:34  <gege> and after a restart everything ok
15:24:36  <glx> check if there's a reason in crash.log
15:24:37  *** skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt]
15:25:03  <gege> sorry i reinstall the full game only the crash.dmp saved
15:25:14  <glx> we need both :)
15:25:19  <gege> but after reinstall it crashes again
15:25:26  <gege> i reboot and now works
15:25:40  <glx> looks like a memory problem
15:25:44  <gege> in this way i ttry to reproduce this bug
15:26:24  <gege> you mean hardware problem?
15:26:52  <glx> yes, that's a possibility
15:26:55  <gege> i use that hp notebook about a year
15:27:14  <gege> and i dont remember any hardware crash
15:27:25  <gege> but i try this night a memtest
15:28:00  <glx> put the crash.dmp somewhere, so I can check where it crashes
15:28:38  <roboman> gnight/morning
15:28:44  <roboman> gnight in the early hours
15:31:20  <Bjarni> early?
15:31:29  <Bjarni> it's just past sunset
15:31:51  <Gonozal_VIII> sunset was in october
15:31:51  <Bjarni> you aussies are doing everything reversed
15:32:10  <Bjarni> I guess walking upside down makes something to the bloodflow to the brain or something
15:32:28  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> sunset was in october <--- yeah... it's just past sunset
15:32:37  <Gonozal_VIII> ok...
15:33:48  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm yesterday was the middle, not?
15:34:17  <Gonozal_VIII> so it's halfway between sunset and sunrise :-)
15:34:44  <Gonozal_VIII> which is somewhere mid february
15:35:24  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm yesterday was the middle, not? <-- yesterday was big switching yard day
15:35:45  * Bjarni can still feel it all over his body
15:36:00  <Gonozal_VIII> switched the rails for the sun?
15:38:20  <Bjarni> yesterday had nothing to do with the sun
15:38:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yesterday.. all my plasma balls seemed so far away...
15:39:22  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> yesterday.. all my [...] balls seemed so far away...
15:39:39  <Gonozal_VIII> all your ball are belong to us!
15:39:43  <Bjarni> I know people mainly grow during the night but still..
15:42:50  <glx> gege: using 0.5.3 ?
15:43:12  <Bjarni> so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give?
15:43:21  <gege> yes
15:43:50  <glx> try "openttd -mnull"
15:43:59  <glx> looks like it fails to start music
15:44:05  <Gonozal_VIII> [16:43:12] Bjarni: so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give? <-- yes... as in bought none, plan to give none
15:44:23  <glx> same for me :)
15:45:46  <gege> i buyed everything but i dont want to give for anyone:)
15:46:20  <Gonozal_VIII> why should i give people presents for somebody else's birthday?
15:46:31  <gege> :)
15:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> ... who is even unlikely to have had birthday on that day
15:46:58  <Gonozal_VIII> especially if that guy is most likely fictional
15:48:11  <gege> gonzal i think catholicism not your religion
15:48:16  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, i guess the guy itself isn't fictional, only who he thought to be and what he did...
15:48:45  <Gonozal_VIII> well, technically i am catholic
15:49:01  <gege> like me "technically"
15:49:17  <gege> i havent got other chance
15:49:48  <gege> but i cry that day:)
15:51:37  <Osai> hello devs, openttd (r11666) desyncs when you prospect an industry. I checked out a new working copy to ensure no changes of the code, because I talked with Rubidium some times but he said it is an revision-number error and he was not able to reproduce the desync locally. We are using newgrfs, maybe this is a problem too.
15:52:18  <Gonozal_VIII> known bug :-)
15:52:43  <Osai> Gonozal_VIII: yes, but actually feel like devs don't trust in us
15:52:51  <Osai> :(
15:53:19  <Osai> at least it sounded like its our own fault because we ran a patched version with ./configure --revision-number=
15:53:56  <Osai> before the current game I did a fresh install
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16:02:42  <glx> I failed to make it desync
16:04:39  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> [16:43:12] Bjarni: so did you guys buy all the Christmas presents that you plan to give? <-- yes... as in bought none, plan to give none <-- are you a Muslim or something?
16:05:08  <Gonozal_VIII> no, much worse, i'm a student :-)
16:05:42  <Bjarni> so it's about poverty, not religion
16:06:19  <Bjarni> remember that it's the thought that counts
16:06:53  <Bjarni> I'm a student too and I still plan to give presents to the people I care for
16:06:56  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaaand
16:06:59  <Gonozal_VIII> [16:46:19] Gonozal_VIII: why should i give people presents for somebody else's birthday?
16:07:25  <Bjarni> tradition
16:07:32  <Bjarni> besides you will get presents
16:07:42  <Gonozal_VIII> no
16:07:50  <Bjarni> at least you would if you didn't push people away from you
16:07:53  <Gonozal_VIII> we don't do that
16:08:17  <Bjarni> are you sure you aren't Muslim?
16:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> "how can you tell if you never tried?"
16:09:03  <Bjarni> or maybe atheistic
16:09:41  <Gonozal_VIII> technically catholic
16:10:02  <Bjarni> I wasn't asking a technically question :p
16:10:20  <Bjarni> what does your heart tell you?
16:10:32  *** DeGhost [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10:53  <Gonozal_VIII> it's pumping my blood
16:11:15  <Bjarni> you are avoiding the subject
16:11:31  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't believe in god or something like that
16:11:45  <Bjarni> do you believe in human relationships?
16:12:17  <Gonozal_VIII> it's not about relationships, it's about commerce
16:12:43  <Gonozal_VIII> all about the money
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16:13:27  <Bjarni> you could make stuff yourself if you realised what is important
16:13:32  <Bjarni> so it's not about money
16:14:04  <Bjarni> money is for buying stuff that you can't make yourself or are too lazy to make yourself
16:14:52  <Bjarni> you can make a painting and give that one to somebody you care about
16:15:05  <SmatZ> hello
16:15:09  <Bjarni> this would be a cheap and personal present
16:15:11  <Bjarni> hi SmatZ
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16:15:22  <Gonozal_VIII> i can't paint^^
16:15:24  <SmatZ> hello Bjarni
16:15:30  <Bjarni> SmatZ: are you giving presents at Christmas?
16:15:44  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i can't paint^^ <-- then it would be really personal and unique
16:16:16  <SmatZ> Bjarni: yes, on Monday, in the evening
16:16:34  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:16:37  <Bjarni> SmatZ: Gonozal_VIII talks about it as a waste of money or something
16:16:42  <Bjarni> really weird :s
16:17:39  <Bjarni> giving a good present is a sign that you care for that person so giving no presents would be a sign to everybody that you don't care at all
16:18:09  <Bjarni> hmm
16:18:43  <Bjarni> go to the garden and dig up worms and give those as a present. If you give them to the right person he/she will be very happy
16:18:51  <Bjarni> and go fishing with you ;)
16:19:11  <SmatZ> :-)
16:20:31  <Bjarni> maybe Gonozal_VIII talks about money to hide the facts that he has no friends and behaves in a way that his family disowned him
16:20:41  <SmatZ> :'-(
16:20:55  <Bjarni> yeah it's sad
16:21:04  <Bjarni> some people has nobody to get presents for
16:21:09  <Bjarni> it's a cruel world
16:21:13  <SmatZ> :-)
16:22:25  * Bjarni wonders what the real reason for Gonozal_VIII to be so cruel to his family that they get no presents
16:22:47  <Bjarni> maybe he ran away from home
16:22:52  <SmatZ> different countries have different customs...
16:23:45  <Bjarni> I don't consider Austria to be that strange compared to the rest of Europe
16:23:47  <SmatZ> well, Austria... many Austrian people dislike Czech people :-x because of Nuclear powerplant...
16:24:02  <Bjarni> that's natural
16:24:29  <SmatZ> huh like if that was better if we used coal powerplants instead
16:25:00  <Bjarni> Sweden built a nuclear powerplant next to Stockholm. They realised that it was too close and closed it. Now they needed more power so they placed one within visual range of Copenhagen
16:25:14  <SmatZ> :-P
16:25:18  <SmatZ> strange
16:25:30  <SmatZ> depends what you call "near"
16:25:41  <Gonozal_VIII> germany has nuclear plants close to our border too but they are much safer
16:26:04  <Gonozal_VIII> temelin has like 1000 malfunctions per year
16:26:15  <SmatZ> yeah, our nuclear plant are not safe, while we have the same/more strict laws
16:26:29  <SmatZ> that happens in every powerplant, none of them are dangerous
16:26:34  <Bjarni> There was a design flaw in the Swedish plant that nobody wanted to correct (too expensive) and they tried to hide that fact
16:26:46  <Bjarni> people didn't like that when this news reached the media
16:26:56  <Bjarni> years after it was discovered
16:27:13  <SmatZ> oh those Swedish :-x
16:27:43  <kyevan> Hey, they can always hide in the banks if the reactor goes critical :P
16:27:48  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not against nuclear plants but they should build them deep underground or something where they can't spread radioactive dust all over the continent when something goes wrong
16:27:48  <Bjarni> actually they had informed some guy in Denmark responsible for nuclear safety in Denmark and he hid that fact from the public
16:28:23  <SmatZ> just Aurtia got rid of nuclear powerplants and now they want all other countries to do the same... nothing more, nothing less
16:28:27  <Bjarni> this guy wanted nuclear in Denmark or something even though the politicians had already banned them
16:28:43  <Bjarni> we never built any nuclear power plants
16:29:21  <Gonozal_VIII> we built one... after it was ready they asked the people if they should build it...
16:29:24  <Bjarni> except for a nuclear reactor test centre... for some reason they kept researching even after nuclear reactors were banned
16:31:02  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> huh like if that was better if we used coal powerplants instead <-- we can build those for you and the Austrians will be happy
16:31:19  <SmatZ> Bjarni: thanks, no :-D
16:31:35  <Bjarni> you see the Danish coal power plants are the most clean and most efficient in the entire world
16:31:40  <Gonozal_VIII> there are lots of deep abandoned mines where you could put the nuclear plants in
16:32:01  <SmatZ> what is dangerous, is building some American "anti-rocket" base in our country... I wonder why people don't demonstrate against this
16:32:52  <Gonozal_VIII> the dangerous thing about those is that they make a nuclear war more likely
16:33:15  <Gonozal_VIII> when the americans think it is safe for them
16:33:24  <Bjarni> they don't
16:33:39  <Bjarni> the anti rockets miss the rockets most of the time
16:33:42  <Bjarni> and they know that
16:33:57  <Bjarni> so in reality it's not a really secure defence
16:34:30  <Bjarni> it's like making a firewall on your computer that can only block 100 ports and then it picks 100 random ports to block every sec
16:34:38  <Gonozal_VIII> but they are well known for their decisions based on wrong facts
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16:36:47  <Bjarni> actually while the Americans tend to do stupid stuff I don't think they will use nuclear weapons unless it's WW3 and the enemy use them
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16:37:23  <Osai> glx: it doesn't desync here locally as well. It might occur only if users with different OSes joined the game
16:37:25  <Bjarni> if it's just a "normal" situation where somebody hates USA the US voters will not accept it
16:37:42  <Bjarni> Osai: or different endianess
16:37:55  <Bjarni> that's more likely than OS itself
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16:46:20  <Osai> Bjarni: you are right
16:46:27  <Gonozal_VIII> explosions outside!!
16:46:43  <SmatZ> explosions?
16:46:56  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, like in boom!
16:47:10  <SmatZ> celebrating a bit early :)
16:47:29  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... earlier then usual
16:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause> in australia a fireworks factory exploded a few weeks ago
16:48:17  <Gonozal_VIII> big boom?
16:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> they said they might have to cancel the sydney fireworks this year
16:49:29  <Gonozal_VIII> they should just show videos of the factory explosion
16:55:59  <kyevan> That prospecting bug REALLY needs to be fixed...
16:57:31  <SmatZ> kyevan: can you reproduce it?
16:59:27  <kyevan> Yeh, easy.
16:59:39  <kyevan> It happens /every damn time/ you prospect in multiplayer
16:59:44  <kyevan> Everyone desynchs
17:00:18  <SmatZ> kyevan: did you try it?
17:00:35  <SmatZ> I tried to load ottdcoop savegame, run a server from it, join as a client
17:00:43  <SmatZ> prospected maybe 50 industries with no desync
17:01:06  <SmatZ> so I was using the same newgrf, the same version, and it didn't desync
17:01:21  <SmatZ> there must be something else, maybe different endianess
17:01:40  <SmatZ> kyevan: so I am asking again - are YOU able to reproduce it?
17:01:45  <SmatZ> without openttdcoop server
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17:03:28  <kyevan> I hWell
17:03:43  <kyevan> I think I have an idea on how to pull it off
17:03:53  <kyevan> But my mac is in another state at the moment, so :P
17:04:56  <kyevan> I think Osai was working on it, though?
17:05:12  <SmatZ> I don't know
17:11:20  <SmatZ> hmm my girlfriend is ill, now I found out I have elevated temperature, too... I hope it won't be bad Christmass this year :(
17:13:05  <Eddi|zuHause> even more reason to break up ;)
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17:31:56  <SmatZ> :-x
17:36:23  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:38:51  <Tefad> SmatZ: that happened to me for thanksgiving
17:39:14  <Tefad> i didn't get to see my folks for fear of giving sickness to them
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17:48:51  <kyevan> OH MY GOD TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES
17:48:55  <kyevan> They're not fire proof!
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17:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have a conflict in vehicle.h...
17:51:50  <Craterboy> Is it possible to save in multiplayer and load multiplayer
17:52:07  <kyevan> yes
17:52:08  <Bjarni> yes
17:52:25  <kyevan> (in before RTFM! :P)
17:52:49  * Bjarni wonders why people ask such question without even trying
17:52:54  <Craterboy> tried
17:52:58  <Craterboy> but I wasn't sure
17:53:22  <Craterboy> since the guy who I am playing with is afk
17:53:27  <Bjarni> save... when starting a new MP game click "load game" or whatever it's called
17:53:44  <Craterboy> tried that, but had no-one to test
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17:53:53  <Bjarni> the other players has to manually join your newly started game when you load it though
17:54:01  <Craterboy> aha
17:54:09  <Craterboy> so it won't show up on lan list?
17:54:18  <Bjarni> it will
17:54:34  <Bjarni> when you load it will be a normal MP game but it starts with companies in it
17:54:41  <Craterboy> aha
17:54:43  <Bjarni> then people can join their old companies again
17:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause> note that all passwords are lost
17:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> argh... burning dual layer takes forever...
17:57:57  <Craterboy> yay
17:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i probably asked this multiple times already: "/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/misc/blob.hpp:376: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true" <--- i thought these have been fixed
17:58:06  <Craterboy> airport business is a fast way to get rid of loans
17:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> gcc --version
17:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> gcc (GCC) 4.1.3 20070724 (prerelease) (SUSE Linux)
18:02:15  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: this feature is only in gcc 4.2, it was probably packported to 4.1.3 though
18:02:29  <SmatZ> the configure script checks for gcc >= 4.2
18:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i actually should have gcc 4.2
18:07:55  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> argh... burning dual layer takes forever... <-- that depends on much much you add to it
18:08:15  <Bjarni> usually people tend to fill DL discs though and since that's a whole lot of data...
18:10:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well i bought 2.4x discs, because my old burner couldn't handle the faster ones, but then the burner broke
18:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the new burner can burn up to 6x i believe
18:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but the discs are still slow
18:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and filling a DL with 2.4x takes roughly an hour
18:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> or 45 minutes
18:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> or something around that
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18:12:57  <Bjarni> sounds like when I burned CDs at single speed
18:13:31  <Bjarni> I had a double speed burner and double speed discs but weird tracking errors happened if I tried more than single speed
18:13:56  <Bjarni> oh well... the burner was cheap (when you consider pricing at that time)
18:14:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i found this burner was cheap
18:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it was like 17 euro + shipping
18:14:48  <Bjarni> way cheaper than my burner
18:14:59  <Bjarni> but it has been a while
18:15:06  <Bjarni> it was in 1997 or something
18:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's an IDE burner, while most are SATA now
18:16:12  <Bjarni> I told a guy that I thought that the issues with the burner was due to a small cache and he said "the size of the case shouldn't matter"
18:16:48  <Bjarni> I think it has 256k or something... and no buffer underrun protection
18:17:13  <Bjarni> I still have the drive... I just don't really use it anymore
18:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that can cause problems depending what else you do with the system
18:17:47  <Bjarni> I also has a dual speed CD-ROM drive... it's great for reading discs with scratches.... it cares way less than modern drives
18:18:16  <Bjarni> but... I prefer avoiding scratching my discs ;)
18:19:13  <Bjarni> yeah 256k isn't much. The computer was kind of slow too (100 MHz) and it was an external drive
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18:28:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, 256k isn't very much, but if you compare it relative to the size of the disk, the modern (cheap) drives don't have that much more
18:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, openttd still hangs if i generate an arctic map with alpine grf
18:34:21  <Maedhros_> odd; it works fine here
18:34:28  <Maedhros_> Eddi|zuHause: what other grfs have you got loaded?
18:35:04  *** Maedhros_ is now known as Maedhros
18:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i once tracked it down that the problem disappears if i remove my .cfg
18:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> other grfs don't matter, i tried without
18:35:47  <Maedhros> hmm
18:35:56  <Maedhros> could you upload your config somewhere please?
18:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, interesting, i got music all of a sudden ;)
18:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> should i also attach alpine grf?
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18:45:03  <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause: i've already got one (AlpineClimate V0.21 18.05.06)
18:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> -rw-rw-rw- 1 johannes users 402522 18. Mai 2006  /home/johannes/.openttd/data/newgrf/alpinew.grf
18:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds right
18:49:22  <Maedhros> how odd - the title screen is centred on a different place with your config...
18:49:48  <kyevan> Is the title screen just a normal map, with a bunch of stuff preplaced, or what?
18:50:33  *** Zavior [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:50:36  <Maedhros> it's just a savegame, renamed to opntitle.dat
18:51:09  <kyevan> Hmm, cool
18:51:28  * Maedhros slaps himself
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18:51:52  <Maedhros> the title screen is only centred on a different place because of Eddi|zuHause's huge screen resolution settings
18:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i was about to suggest that
18:53:08  <Maedhros> i can reproduce the hang, at any rate
19:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, concerning alpine grf, ore does not count as freight, might this be another one of those "set to 0" versus "keep default value" issue?
19:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (maybe you remember we had one of those with the BR 05 and loading speed of passengers)
19:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm talking alpine together with DBSetXL here)
19:24:32  * kyevan glares at the stable version
19:27:12  <Craterboy> erm
19:27:21  <Craterboy> how to make airport to accept goods if it's near a factory
19:27:53  <kyevan> It can't.
19:27:58  <Craterboy> oh
19:28:04  <kyevan> Towns accept goods, not factorys :P
19:28:09  <Craterboy> I mean
19:28:21  <Craterboy> make factory store goods in airport
19:28:27  <Craterboy> so a plane can give it to a town
19:28:35  <Craterboy> hmm
19:28:35  <Craterboy> nvm
19:28:42  <Craterboy> takes a while till it accepts it
19:28:53  <kyevan> Is the factory in the catchment? Also, you need to run service first, maybe
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19:51:37  <Wolf01> bah, i hate when i have the road toolbar opened and i press A for auto*... and selects the autorail...
19:53:08  <hylje> a for autorail is magical
19:53:15  <hylje> it pops up the rail builder anyway
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20:22:21  <Craterboy> longer station means faster loading?
20:22:54  <hylje> so long the train fits inside the station
20:22:58  <hylje> its as fast as it can be
20:25:00  <Craterboy> if the station is the half of the train
20:25:04  <Craterboy> means loading is slow?
20:25:30  <hylje> yes
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20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Fahrpreisentwicklung
20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause>   01.08.1919     20 Pfennig
20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause>   14.07.1923  1500 Mark
20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause>   24.11.1923  150 Mrd. Mark
20:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause>   25.11.1923     15 Reichspfenning
20:38:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (prices of one tram ride in Halle)
20:39:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (today: around 1,50€, don't remember the exact price)
20:39:52  <glx> was a nice inflation
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20:46:06  <Rubidium> Osai: then post everything that 'we' need to know on how to reproduce the desync.
20:46:19  <Rubidium> *if* I cannot reproduce it, I cannot fix it either.
20:46:47  <Osai> I was able to reproduce the desync
20:47:23  <Osai> you need clients with different cpu/OSes
20:49:09  <glx> that's the problem as we (the devs) don't have different cpu types
20:49:12  <Rubidium> you said it's only with newindustries?
20:49:35  <Osai> nope, I tested it with a new generated game
20:50:14  <SmatZ> what about Bjarni, doesn't he have Mac?
20:50:19  <Osai> yes
20:50:25  <Rubidium> so a game without newgrfs?
20:50:28  <Osai> yes
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20:50:48  <Rubidium> Osai: can you find out since what revision that is?
20:50:55  <glx> SmatZ: an intel one
20:51:11  <Osai> I could try
20:52:04  <SmatZ> glx: aha
20:52:18  <Osai> Rubidium: can you join
20:53:19  <Rubidium> how big is the game?
20:53:27  <Osai> another problem that occurs is: if you 64x128
20:53:33  <Osai> oops
20:53:38  <Osai> 64x128
20:53:42  <Osai> just started
20:53:46  <Osai> nothing inside
20:53:50  <Osai> join the company
20:54:19  <Rubidium> hmm, that's going to take a while; need to get a clean checkout of that rev and compile it
20:54:41  <Osai> I could also load the latest nightly if it helps you
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20:55:09  <glx> if you can compile it :)
20:55:11  <Rubidium> that would be quicker I guess
20:55:25  <Osai> glx: I can, but it takes very long :(
20:55:45  <Rubidium> glx: did I break it?
20:56:01  <glx> yes, all BE builds failed
20:57:13  <Osai> okay, started with r11673
20:57:38  <Osai> --.-
21:00:36  * Osai is trying to compile r11680
21:01:00  <glx> with a BE cpu?
21:01:56  <Rubidium> you'd better try r11681
21:02:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11681 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r11674): hopefully fix the compile error on big endian machines.
21:02:29  <Osai> k, trying
21:02:36  <Osai> takes a while
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21:22:28  <glx> Osai: nice
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21:24:57  <Osai> another interesting thing: if you change the patch setting raw_industry_construction the other clients don't see the change
21:25:00  <Osai> of the value
21:29:56  <Rubidium> Osai: any idea since what revision
21:30:12  <Rubidium> approximately the desync happen between endiannesses?
21:30:54  <Rubidium> I can't find something obviously wrong in the last 70 or so commits
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21:33:09  <Osai> we have problems since r11615 with 100% guarantee
21:33:32  <glx> and it was ok before?
21:33:33  <Rubidium> but the *same* problem since r11615?
21:34:28  <Osai> we used r11557, r11601 and r11615
21:34:57  <glx> all with prospection enabled?
21:36:24  <Osai> probably yes, but if we didn't build industries (pax games) or we had enough the problem didn't occur
21:36:25  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> what about Bjarni, doesn't he have Mac? <-- no... I use a C64 for IRC and coding and because I can't compile to test it I just hope that my code works
21:37:12  <Bjarni> hmm
21:37:19  <Osai> glx, we could simply test with these revisions
21:37:31  <Bjarni> why did you guys talk about my computer?
21:37:57  <SmatZ> from IRC #openttdcoop logs I can see there were massive desyncs with r1106 too
21:38:07  <SmatZ> Bjarni: commodore 64?
21:38:12  <Bjarni> yeah
21:38:37  <Bjarni> r1106 is ancient... are you sure about this number?
21:38:42  <Rubidium> SmatZ: a massive desyncer in r1106 would most likely be fixed by now
21:38:44  <Bjarni> and is it really useful info
21:38:46  <SmatZ> nice, can you run OTTD too at it?
21:38:59  <SmatZ> Bjarni: Rubidium :-) errrr r11601
21:39:01  <Bjarni> sure
21:39:08  <glx> Osai: we can, just tell what version
21:39:09  <Bjarni> but I don't have a net connection on it
21:39:28  <SmatZ> massive desync ~ (almost) all player desync at one time
21:39:39  <Bjarni> actually I communicate by saying funny stuff in the phone
21:39:54  <Osai> glx, lets try r11601 first
21:40:25  <glx> compiling
21:40:32  <SmatZ> I can see one massive desync with 11557 too
21:41:03  <Bjarni> but since you guys still talk about desyncs I presume that you want me to debug on PPC or something
21:41:24  <glx> well Osai is on BE :)
21:42:10  <Bjarni> I know
21:42:17  <Bjarni> using tiger
21:43:23  * Bjarni prepares for tomorrow
21:43:40  <Bjarni> I finally have a vacation and what do I do?
21:43:48  <Bjarni> I do what most people would consider work :P
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21:48:12  <Osai> okay, r11601 fails too
21:48:23  * Rubidium cannot find something obviously wrong in the last 300 or so revisions
21:48:51  <glx> and modified settings are not forwarded
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21:50:21  <Osai> Rubidium: when was industry prospecting included into trunk?
21:50:44  <Rubidium> 4-6 months or so?
21:50:55  <Osai> uhm :/
21:50:57  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
21:52:08  <Rubidium> @openttd logs 10451
21:52:17  <Rubidium> @openttd commit 10451
21:52:18  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r10451 /trunk/src (8 files in 3 dirs) (2007-07-06 07:24:10 UTC)
21:52:19  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Add: support for "prospecting" raw industries, i.e. you pay an amount of money and then it might (with a given chance) build a raw industry somewhere on the map.
21:52:24  <glx> I introduced a desync in r11305 (fixed in r11356)
21:52:45  <glx> let's try r10451 :)
21:54:12  <SmatZ> I think there was one problem with prospecting (client was using Random() in the test run), and it has been fixed later
21:55:08  <Osai> glx: compiling r10451 will take a while again
21:55:33  <glx> SmatZ: there's no test run when prospecting (it is just skiped)
21:56:40  <SmatZ> glx: then I am wrong - maybe it was general placing of industry
21:56:44  <Rubidium> glx: when you set your 'local' configuration for prospecting the same as Osai has on his BE server, does it then desync?
21:56:49  <SmatZ> I don't remember, really
21:57:39  <glx> Rubidium: I don't understand
21:58:12  * Rubidium suspects that a certain variable is not stored in the savegame
21:59:04  <Rubidium> so if you set that variable in openttd.cfg to the same value as on Osai's computer, it should 'work'
21:59:13  <glx> hmm last try, it was none, then Osai changed it, and I needed to reconnect to get the right one
22:01:13  <Rubidium> oh, never mind... that variable is used a lot longer than for enabling prospecting
22:02:00  <glx> but the change was not forwarded (at least in r11601)
22:02:25  <glx> changed using console
22:02:30  <Rubidium> that's odd
22:15:53  <Tefad> check out magfest if you get a chance
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22:16:19  <Tefad> there will be openttd at the LAN, i promise : D
22:16:48  <Maedhros> hmm. the order that parameters are evaluated in isn't defined by the C standard, iirc, so might it be that the Randoms in the call to CreateNewIndustryHelper are evaluated in a different order in PowerPC and x86 code?
22:17:19  <Maedhros> or is the desync just caused by the patch setting not being propagated?
22:18:00  <SmatZ> Maedhros: where do you see that?
22:18:24  <Maedhros> SmatZ: industry_cmd.cpp:1615
22:19:29  <SmatZ> Maedhros: nice catch, that may be a problem :-) "operator , " is a serializing operator, but in the function call ", " is not "operator ,"
22:19:50  <glx> <-- we could try to compare outputs
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22:22:24  <valhallasw> SmatZ: operator! does it commute?
22:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> nesting functions with side effects into one statement should be avoided...
22:23:39  <SmatZ> valhallasw: errr, sorry?
22:23:51  <Tefad> boolean algebra
22:23:53  <valhallasw> SmatZ: sorry, my quantum mind kicked in :)
22:24:03  <SmatZ> :-)
22:24:05  <valhallasw> Tefad: whats boolean about commutativity?
22:24:20  <Tefad> ! is the not operator yes?
22:24:27  <SmatZ> not
22:24:32  <SmatZ> yes
22:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a DBSet with longer passenger wagons
22:25:20  <SmatZ> depends what you call "not" ... ! is "bool" not
22:25:27  <SmatZ> ~ is "vector" not
22:25:32  <SmatZ> or how should I call it
22:26:13  *** divoafx is now known as divo
22:26:43  <Tefad> ! is logical ~ is binary
22:27:01  <valhallasw> bitwise vs logical
22:27:04  <Tefad> !20384 is 0
22:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> calculus in GF(4294967296) is funny ;)
22:27:15  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: girlfriend calculis? :P
22:27:27  <valhallasw> calculus*
22:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Galois Field, you ignorant :p
22:27:32  <Tefad> ~0xFF gets 0x00 with possible leading F's i forget.
22:27:49  <valhallasw> Tefad: depends on the size
22:27:53  <Tefad> depends. yeah
22:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Tefad: depends if 0xFF is sign-extended first
22:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 0xFF can be extended to 0xFFFFFFFF (signed) or to 0x000000FF (unsigned)
22:29:12  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: I am trying hard to avoid algebra classes
22:29:30  <valhallasw> linear algebra is worse enough :D
22:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> galois fields are the finite fields of order p^n, with p being a prime number
22:30:06  <Tefad> see what i meant ; )
22:30:21  <Tefad> i've had to deal with this crap when programming binary adders using 7400 chips
22:30:36  <SmatZ> hmm I didn't know it has to be p^n
22:30:37  <Tefad> yay carry flags. hilarity ensues.
22:30:48  <SmatZ> :-)
22:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the galois field with 256 elements is used in the AES algorithm (symmetric encryption)
22:32:01  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: ah, the finite field of integers modulo p. I see
22:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the funny thing about p=2, that you end up with bitfields, where the addition is bitwise xor
22:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but the multiplication is a totally "weird" shuffling around of bits
22:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: it has not much to do with integers, when you get to n>1
22:33:49  <valhallasw> hrmmm
22:33:53  <valhallasw> wait
22:36:16  <valhallasw> I can follow wikipedia on GF(2) and GF(3), but GF(4) fails for me :P
22:36:24  <valhallasw> (the examples section)
22:37:01  <valhallasw> or... are those just *defenitions* of a field?
22:37:19  <Eddi|zuHause> 4=2^2, so you have a 2-bit vector
22:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause> addition is bitwise xor
22:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so (1,0)+(1,1) = (0,1)
22:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> multiplication is the group with 3 elements
22:38:07  <valhallasw> 1+B=(1,0)+(1,1)=(0,1)=A?
22:38:08  <valhallasw> right
22:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say 1=(1,1)
22:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> which article are you reading?
22:39:23  <valhallasw>
22:39:30  <valhallasw> down at Some small finite fields
22:39:33  <Bjarni> lol
22:39:42  <Bjarni> "Its German not finnish stupids -_-" <-- said about some Finnish speech
22:39:46  <valhallasw> xD
22:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: i read something like that a while ago
22:45:00  <Bjarni> heh
22:45:14  <Bjarni> <-- you can judge for yourself if you like
22:45:59  <valhallasw> xD
22:46:21  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: but GF(5).. would be what? just N mod 5?
22:46:30  <Tefad> is that spoken or scat?
22:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: yes
22:46:48  <Bjarni> Tefad: most of it is nonsense even in Finnish
22:46:53  <valhallasw> and GF(25) would be a vector of two mod 5 ints?
22:47:10  <Bjarni> it's about rhythm and stuff not the words themselves
22:47:25  <Tefad> so scat using words
22:47:38  <Bjarni> most of them aren't even real words
22:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you could probably describe it like that, but Z^2 mod 5 does not give you a multiplication
22:48:11  <Tefad> kind of like supercalifragilisticexpealidocious
22:48:28  <Bjarni> err
22:48:44  <Tefad> also, i spelled that right the first try.. at least according to the google.
22:48:44  * Bjarni wonders how to make a good rhythm with supercalifragilisticexpealidocious
22:48:59  <Tefad> certainly you've heard the song?
22:49:05  <Bjarni> sure
22:49:18  <Bjarni> and if I forget it all it takes is to go get the DVD
22:49:34  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: as in 'impossible to define' or 'no standard solution'?
22:49:54  <Bjarni> but I might have to ask my sister where it is :/
22:49:58  <Tefad> those field patterns remind me of pascal's triangle a bit
22:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "Z^2 does not have multiplication, so Z^2 mod 5 does not imply one"
22:50:22  <valhallasw> ah
22:51:45  <valhallasw> maybe I should do algebra classes
22:54:14  <Tefad> Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan / tittari tillan titstan dullaa, / dipidapi dallaa ruppati rupiran / kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu. / Ratsatsaa ja ripidabi dilla / beritstan dillan dellan doo. / A baribbattaa baribbariiba / ribiribi distan dellan doo. / Ja barillas dillan deia dooa / daba daba daba daba daba duvja vuu. / Baristal dillas dillan duu ba daga / daiga daida duu duu deiga dou.
22:55:37  <Bjarni> <-- wow... it actually sounds pretty good on voice synth software
22:55:41  <Bjarni> same song
22:55:48  <Bjarni> but computer generated singing
22:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> stop with that song already! :p
22:56:05  <Bjarni> why
22:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it was hard enough to get Sacro down the first time :p
22:56:18  <Bjarni> does it contain offensive German words? :)
22:56:24  <Bjarni> ohh
22:57:24  <Wolf01> what is the right order with the transfer system?
22:57:24  <Wolf01> A = transfer and leave empty -> B = transfer and take cargo or load directly?
22:57:40  <Bjarni> hahaha... the video response to the last link is.... different :)
22:58:27  <valhallasw> xD
22:59:15  <Bjarni> too bad I stopped playing fighting games years ago
23:00:06  <Bjarni> I was unbeatable in Street fighter. Didn't play it much though but I was still able to beat everybody
23:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually only use transfer in train A
23:00:31  <Eddi|zuHause> train B can just use load
23:00:36  <Tefad> did someone say A-Train
23:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i also have no idea why we have orders other than "transfer and leave empty" or what they are useful for
23:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what is an A-Train in your world, Tefad?
23:02:14  <Wolf01> maybe they were intended for bi-directional transfer, which doesn't work at all
23:02:15  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> next step for transfer is passenger/cargo destinations and pathfinding
23:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a lightweight pcx editor for linux?
23:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (meaning less clumsy than gimp)
23:10:27  <Maedhros> not that i know of (i'm assuming the gimp doesn't count as lightweight)
23:10:37  <Maedhros> heh
23:10:57  <valhallasw> has been ported to mono iirc
23:11:58  <valhallasw>
23:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll see what the repository sais about image editing software...
23:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause> says?
23:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i never remember...
23:22:23  <Maedhros> yeah, it's "says", if you were talking about the spelling :)
23:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but it is said
23:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a totally weird language
23:23:56  <Maedhros> true, true :)
23:24:10  <SpComb> sez
23:30:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11682 /trunk/src/ (79 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move some 'generic' geometry related types into a single file and do not include gfx.h everywhere to get a Point type.
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23:45:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there is kolourpaint... maybe i should try that one
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23:50:35  <pavel1269> gn
23:50:46  *** pavel1269 [] has quit []
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23:52:54  <valhalla1w> TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000] <-- I am fucking something up -_-
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23:59:03  <Tefad> there's also the vector drawing program, xfig
23:59:12  <Tefad> export to PDF iirc

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